Coffee Break: Minori Boot

24 Comments

1. Might repost tomorrow but how do you handle it when you’re asking for a substantial raise and promotion and you get a small one instead? I essentially want to say “thanks but this is nowhere near where it needs to be” and my boss probably wants to say “here you go, be grateful I managed this much and now I’m off the hook for a few more years.”

   1. Many people would take that as a sign to look for another job.

      1. 100%

      2. yup

   2. Apologies for the bluntness but I’d handle it as ‘this is as much as they’re willing to give me’ and use that information to make future decisions. It’s the corporate version of ‘they’re just not that into you’. If your boss went to bat for you and you trust that they did their best, and the number still isn’t what you want, then you start looking for a new job.

      1. As a manager, I don’t know that it’s a clear “they’re just not that into you.” I think there are a lot of details that are relevant here (pay comparison to others in the same or similar roles, success of the business, etc.). Definitely start looking around, but I don’t think it’s a kiss of death.

         1. I agree with 2:48. You have to remember that your ask may not have been very doable in the context of your organization.

            1. +2 especially in the nonprofit world.

            2. This. I have a person I would love to pay more. I cannot. My hands are tied by salary bands and comps within the organization.

         2. As a manager who has had to fight for promotions and raises, I agree. IME senior management and HR are very aware of the market power they have over employees and are unwilling to give promotions and raises, even when they value those employees highly and/or are upset about “disloyalty” when they leave for greener pastures.

      2. Well, I should add that I KNOW they want to keep me, but we’re a small business and there are certain financial limitations that make it challenging to do big promotions. It’s been done in rare circumstances before, though, and without outing myself, I think I have a strong case for it now. My supervisor is going to bat for me but it’s the CEO who will have final say.

         1. Go somewhere else

         2. They want to keep you, but they’re not willing to PAY to keep you.

         3. I worked for a small business, and there were many years when I got no raise at all. If you care a lot about what you earn, you should jump ship. Not every organization can afford to pay well.

         4. There’s a lot of things I want, but I can’t afford. I wouldn’t take it personally, in the sense of they’re saying they don’t think you’re worth it, just that it’s unlikely to happen.

            This is a know-your-org, but I do think there’s room at some orgs, for a middle ground of “Thanks Janice – I know you advocated for me in this, and I appreciate it. I want to be upfront that in still really interested in the VP-level role we discussed – what’s your sense of whether that’s realistic at Acme Corp / what the path there would look like?”

            And listen to what she says. Does it sound like a real possibility, or does it sound like “well, it’s not a definite no”. It does communicate a little that you’re likely to leave – so if you absolutely need this job, tread carefully – but if you’re gonna leave anyway if they don’t/can’t promote you, might as well make sure they know that.

   3. I was in a similar position earlier this year and when my manager shared the news of my raise (which was actually large, in part due to the lack of a promotion), I thanked her for going to bat for me and asked if she had any information she could share about a potential timeline for promotion. That led to a candid conversation about the future of our team. From that point on, I have to decide for myself whether I want to stay at this org or job search. Ultimately I think that’s where you are too: are you OK with small raises/no promotion year over year? Or is it time to job hunt?

   4. I’d ask your boss what happened, given that you were asking for X in recognition of your new duties and got Y. And I’d ask HR if there was any way to negotiate your raise.

      And then use the new title to look for a new job.

      1. This would likely lead to a variant of “you don’t always get what you want?”

         1. Of course but if the consolation prize is a title (as implied) then it’s all for the resume.

   5. I was in a similar situation years ago, small business, I was due for a big promotion and associated raise.

      My manager went to the mat multiple times to get those, and came back with a small promotion and small raise.

      I found a new job, and they had to hire an external person for the title and salary they denied me. That person was let go within a year, and heard “Well [Anon] was able to do it, why can’t you? [Anon] delivered this great outcome, you’re not doing enough”, etc., so it wasn’t that I wasn’t capable.

      It’s that they didn’t actually think I would leave, and while I had a strong case and was clearly just asking for market rate for my work, that didn’t change the fact that they didn’t see it until I literally left. I got a 40% raise in my new role, when they could’ve paid me 20% more to stay (which is what they had to pay the external hire anyways).

   6. You either find another job or you accept it.

      Pay for my role remained unchanged for 6 years. I accepted I was being underpaid and stayed for other reasons. Only when the company lost enough people and lost new hires to the only other competitor in town, was pay adjusted. My pay increased 35% the following fiscal year (I don’t see that as a raise so much as how badly I was underpaid).

2. How do you thank your referral sources? For reference, I am an EP attorney. I do a mixture of hand written thank you notes and thank you e-mails. I am curious what others are doing.

   1. I usually just send an email, immediately, that is short and appreciative. I’ve sent flowers a few times, but only for unique circumstances (e.g., lawyer retired, sent me about ten of her clients).

3. I’m looking at a couple of Quince sweaters. On the sizing chart, I fall between a large and an extra large. Would you go with the bigger size, or the smaller? My concern with going smaller is that more tension on the fabric would lead to pilling. But, I also don’t want to look sloppy.

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