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Updated: Apr 30, 2021 276 Comments · by

Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Eyelet Puff-Sleeve Tee

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I’m all about eyelet fabric this spring. It provides a bit of texture and visual interest but still looks seasonally appropriate.

This yellow-orange top is such a great color, and the slightly puffed sleeves make it a little more fun than your standard tee. I would wear this tucked into a pencil skirt for an easy work outfit or with white jeans for a more casual look.

The top is $44.50 at Loft and comes in regular sizes XXS–XXL and petite sizes XXS–XXL — but with code FRIENDS, it comes down to $31.15. It also comes in white.

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About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Ribena

    Oh this is cute! I love broderie anglais but it sometimes skews more little-house-on-the-prairie than I want (and I say that as someone who was able to do fancy dress as Jo March from my regular wardrobe):

  2. Anonymous

    Anyone here buy shoes from Fortress of Inca? There’s a pair of sandals I’m eyeing but I have no experience with the brand. Looking for something that’s going to be comfortable and last more than one season.

    • Anon

      I bought some and sent them back because they were the wrong size but they were absolutely gorgeous and appeared to be well made

  3. Diana Barry

    Considering getting a utility jacket for spring. Should I get the standard olive color, or an off-white? I feel like the olive is more classic, but also a bit boring…

    • Ribena

      Mine is a sort of olive/khaki and I like it. It doesn’t feel unseasonably bright when it’s colder and it means I can use it as a picnic blanket without worrying about grass stains.

    • BeenThatGuy

      I have one in olive and in pale pink. Both colors are very versatile.

    • Anon

      I’ve had the JCrew one that everyone has in olive since the first or second year it came out (2010? 2012?) and I wear it a ton every season. I love the olive color. It’s pretty generic, but I don’t care (so is a denim jacket!).

      • Anon

        Haha, I have this one (from 2017 or so?) and one day at work three of us stood around talking and we were all wearing the same jacket. I do love it though.

      • anon

        I also have this one like everyone else and I still love it. It’s so versatile and the olive is a neutral.

      • Senior Attorney

        I have that one in olive and in navy and I wear both of them all the time.

    • SSJD

      I have an olive utility jacket, and it’s fantastic. Classic, but for a reason. Off-white in a coat seems a bad idea to me (at the very least, make sure it’s washable). Mine is actually a Patagonia style that has contrast pattern inside cuffs and contrast inside the hood, so it has a little visual interest that makes it somewhat different. Maybe you can find something like that (or add a patch somewhere to make it your own).

      • NYCer

        +1. I have an olive color Barbour jacket and wear it all the time. Off-white seems counterintuitive with a utility jacket, as it would show every speck of dirt.

        • Anonymous

          Which Barbour do you have? I’m looking for one myself and the classic styles (especially in men’s) look more functional, but it’s hard to tell online.

          • NYCer

            I have the Barbour classic beadnell waxed jacket. It is a bit pricey, but incredibly durable and gets a ton of use. And honestly, I think it looks better as it ages.

    • Anon

      I have an olive one from J Crew that I wear constantly. It goes with everything.

    • Anon

      Maybe stray away from olive or black so as not to look too 2010 basic starbucks girl.

    • anon a mouse

      I love mine from LLBean and am considering another. Either in the rose color or off-white. It’s such a workhorse.

  4. Murz

    I recently changed jobs and my new employer provides two monitor options for WFH: a 35 inch curved monitor, and a 38 inch curved monitor. I’m accustomed to two 24 inch monitors side by side. The size and the curved aspect of the available options is throwing me off. Does anyone have a curved monitor that can give insight on whether it’s a big difference? Can you use it at an angle (to use a laptop screen or another monitor on the opposite side)? TIA!

    • Anon

      I switched from 2 to a curved monitor and it’s amazing. I’d never go back. For home I have a 35 (it’s big enough and still leaves room for other things on my desk)

      • Anon

        PS I do still leave my laptop open next to it – I put Teams on my laptop so I can see that during the day/do video calls and then I work off the curved screen

      • anonshmanon

        This may be a stupid question, but have wondered about these wide screens. I imagine the visual clutter of various windows of random size, which would be distracting to me. Is it a hassle arranging two windows side by side and be even size? Like, if you use the maximize button, wouldn’t it stretch over the whole screen? Or is there an easy way to have two evenly sized windows share the screen?

        • Anon

          Yeah maximize is a weird view, I keep two windows side by side usually. It is nice for spreadsheets.

        • Anon

          It’s really easy to dock two windows and you can do it with your current monitor. Have it minimized and then drag it far left or far right until it clicks into place.

    • MagicUnicorn

      As long as there is enough desk space to accommodate it, I have never regretted having more monitor.

    • Anon

      If you have a big enough monitor you can park two windows side by side on it just like you would with two monitors of a smaller size. I wouldn’t bother trying to put a laptop screen next to it. 35 or 38 inches is huge!

    • Cat

      I have a 30″ curved one and park it directly in front of me. I keep my laptop off to the side with Teams open but don’t use the screen other than for Teams.

  5. Anonymous

    I started a job a few months ago and I enjoy the substantive work and it will be good for my career, but the company has an incredibly toxic culture. I deal with rude and mean coworkers on a daily basis and it is taking a huge toll on my happiness and mental health. Does anyone have any advice for surviving this kind of work environment or providing a way to explain the short job tenure in interviews?

    • Anon

      If you leave fast enough, I’d just omit from your resume entirely. Fwiw, I don’t dwell on a short stint or two and as long as you’re not totally trashing the place, I’m good (ie., job not what was described/changed when I arrived/ culture mismatch, etc.)

    • Flats Only

      If I was in this situation I would quit immediately. And if the tenure at the job was short enough (3 or 4 months) I wouldn’t even put it on my resume. The resulting gap can be explained as “pandemic xxxx”. In my experience the career boost/prestige factor will never make up for the damage to your mental health.

        • Flats Only

          Uuuummm – Many people can find a new job in a couple of months. If OP doesn’t have enough savings (or possibility of a side gig) to cover a couple of months unemployment, then don’t quit. If that’s the case, yes, stick it out while you find something new, using the strategies of anon at 10:23. OP seemed more concerned about the resume gap vs. mental health calculation than the “what will I live on if I quit for my mental health” calculation.

          • Anonymous

            She didn’t mention quitting at all. She mentioned interviewing and surviving.

          • Anon

            Flats Only, thank you for writing this. I quit a job without another one lined up, feeling so much like a bear gnawing off its own arm to get out of a trap, and all the advice I received was condescending “keep your fanny in that seat.” If I could do it all over again, I would have left sooner; the years-long repercussions to my mental health (actual PTSD) have done more far more damage than a few extra months of temp work.

            If the work sucks or your boss is annoying, you keep the job. If you are in a toxic environment and can support yourself through a job hunt, just straight up leaving may be the best thing for you.

      • Anonymous

        Not OP, but in my experience and observation, if you have left a job there is a reason. And if you go back, you better plan to stay or you burn bridges in a big way. That’s a far riskier proposition than doing work you like with people you don’t like for a few more months as you find another place to go. Work cultures are shaped heavily at the top. A few months more of being around rude people (who likely are rude because leadership creates the wrong competitive vibe, sets unrealistic goals or what have you) isn’t going to suddenly make OP a jerk. There just needs to be a plan to get out sooner than later so a bigger part of the picture is fulfilling. And especially now, no one will even bat an eye at 9 months or 12 months at a position given pandemic influence. OP, you need to juggle what’s best for your own personal situation and career goals in terms of potential impact on your references and network, actual value in job experience or work product gained and mental well-being/patience/resilience.

        • Anon

          That makes sense. I was thinking more of people that leave a job to try something new and exciting or make more money. I’m thinking of people that leave Big Law to go to Small Law (or vice versa) or in-house. At least at my firm, there would be no judgment if a former employee said “yeah…. the grass wasn’t greener, I’d like to come back.”

    • Anonymous

      Depending on where you are in your career, keep the experience and leap after a year. I’m in this now. I try to stay calm and keep my communication positive since these folks are in my network now. I can control my response. Some people get a lot more communication on email. Some people get meetings when I wouldn’t normally schedule a meeting but it forces time away from their deadlines when I’m more likely to get them less snappy. I also try to feel sorry for some of the worst offenders since it helps me feel less annoyed. Leadership makes all the difference in company culture and I try to think of them as a by product rather than as individual jerks. I also pay attention to communication stules and try to adapt what I can—is this person about facts and no chit chat, got it. There will always be some difficult people in life and I try to frame this as one more skill set I’m mastering before moving on.

    • test run

      Ugh, I’m so sorry. I know other posters are saying to leave, and if it were me I would probably start job hunting again, but assuming that just bailing is not an immediate option, some ways that I cope with jerks at work is a) refuse to engage, just always respond calmly and usually that irritates the heck out of them and they move on to someone else b) bide your time until you identify the least dramatic people you work with and get their take c) if it’s someone senior/lateral to use, ask your manager; if it’s someone junior to you, I would talk to their manager about it.

      And again, sympathy – I’m also trying to figure out my next career move after tolerating rude and mean colleagues for YEARS, so I really do empathize. It’s so. freaking. exhausting.

    • AFT

      Do you think you wait until the 6 month mark to start interviewing? if you can, I think saying “the culture is not a fit for me/job is different than expected/work was not as represented during the hiring process/etc.” – having a one sentence explanation is going to work out ok.
      If you can’t wait that long, I would leave the job off your resume and start applying now, but I would expect you’ll need to provide an explanation as to the “why are you looking now?” You may end up having the same conversation as mentioned above.

    • Anon

      I stayed in a similar environment – substantive, meaningful work I loved done in the company of some incredibly rude, aggressive, toxic people for four years. I should have gotten out sooner. The only good thing about the experience is that I was able to get a lot of professional development through my previous employer that helped me land the job I have now. That made the stress and the toxicity I put up with worth it, just barely. But when I say “a lot” of development I am talking about probably $50k worth of training and certifications. If this job isn’t presenting you with that kind of opportunity, get out now. Anyone with a short tenure or a resume gap will get a pass for 2020/2021 (same as what happened with 2008/2009) but that window is closing. If you leave before you hit the six month mark, I would leave it off your resume and explain it later as you had to take time off due to the pandemic (and leave it at that). If anyone presses you, you can always say you needed to serve as a caregiver for family during that time.

    • Anon

      Several commentors here are saying quit, and I’m surprised to read that! Years ago, I quit a new job. The task I was hired to manage was in a very different state than I understood from the interviews, same with the organization’s internal situation, and I found the culture shockingly dysfunctional – all of that became immediately obvious in the first week or so. I quit during my probation window, got a new job within a month, and I leave it off my resume entirely. Caveat that I had about a year’s worth of emergency funds when I made the decision.
      Looking back, I have a few pieces of consideration to add as you make your decisions. On the downside: 1) Even though quitting was an immediate relief from the situation, the stress of quitting also took its toll on me (I have never quit anything, and as a people pleaser it was the hardest thing I have ever done professionally). Several years later the experience, disappointment, anger, and vague guilt is still something I carry around. I really recommend talking to a therapist, even just for triage. 2) I never felt comfortable telling the ‘truth’ of what I experienced at Org, except to very close friends. If someone knows I was there it is awkward, because I feel compelled to give vague fluff reasons for leaving.
      On the upside: 1) Now I am WAY more evaluative in interview processes and have only had great fits since (ie I learned from this experience and have been able to integrate that learning to avoid similar). 2) Leaving actually pushed me forward, I am now in a more advanced position but in an adjacent area. (I do feel certain areas are closed off now, in that I never want to work with places/people that might put me in Org’s orbit ever again.) 3) I have had a fundamental change in perspective on my professional life – what I value, what I am willing to tolerate, what boundaries I will enforce. Quitting basically skyrocketed my sense of self-direction and self-trust. That has had direct and knock-on effects that have led to a better alignment in my work life and clearer vision.
      Wishing you all the best

      • Anon

        I don’t think most people would still feel guilty about quitting a horrible job years later.

        • Anon

          Yeah, that’s a pretty extreme reaction. Bad jobs happen. It’s okay to leave them. No anguish required.

  6. Anonymous

    I grew up without access to tv or movies. As an adult, I read a lot. I occasionally went to a movie with friends in law school but didn’t watch by myself until covid. I started watching a movie a month and have enjoyed most so far! I’m curious what favorite or oft-referenced movies would be from this group. Suggestions welcome! (Please don’t avoid old favorites, If you pick a classic or well known movie – assume I haven’t seen it (Casablanca, Forest Gump, Matrix, Pulp Fiction…)).

      • Anonymous

        Oh yes I have rewatched the entire extended versions of LotR multiple times. But also Inception is a newer classic imo.

        Teen movies are great for pop culture references – Mean Girls, 10 Things I Hate About You, Clueless, for a few.

    • Anonymous

      So I’m like you, I have watched very few movies and not a lot of classics. My DH has been showing me a few of his favourites and ones that are common social and pop culture references. The Shawshank Redemption, a beautiful mind and good will hunting have been my favourites thus far.

      • Anon

        I am definitely a very serious art-house movie girl, but I absolutely adored Legally Blonde (can’t speak to the sequel). Also: Clueless.

      • Vicky Austin

        It’s back on Netflix and I was overjoyed! I maintain that it’s basically a perfect movie.

      • Ribena

        Further to this, there is a court case in U.K. news recently about chocolate cakes shaped like caterpillars (we are not a normal country, I promise you), and the weird thing about it is that there have been lots of copycat(erpillars) for years. I said to a friend “why this caterpillar in particular?” referring to the ‘reckless abandonment’ speech and I was the only one who found it funny. Whoops!

        • Anonymous

          LOL! I have been following this case from the US! Love your reference :) Legally Blonde is one of my favorites. Also a big fan of LB The Musical, definitely my go-to for pick-me-up/songs-to-sing-to-the-dogs.

    • Anon

      Definitely Casablanca. And I like The Taking of Pelham 1-2-3 and Raid on Entebbe. My movies were often things re-run on TV in the 1980s. Raising Arizona. Rear Window (any Hitchcock really, but RW is my favorite). The Fugitive (I like the Harrison Ford one, my mom likes the original). The Talented Mr. Ripley (meh on the movie in a way, but the cast and location are both so pretty). The Thomas Crown Affair. Definitely this one: The Lives of Others (indie movie about East Germany).

    • MagicUnicorn

      My circle of friends would be lost if we had to communicate without Star Wars, Monty Python, LOTR/Hobbit, or Harry Potter references.

    • Anon

      I’m like you and never watched movies or TV. I watched Casablanca for the first time a few months ago and suddenly so many cultural references and jokes clicked into place. I also really enjoyed it.

      My favorite rom coms are You’ve Got Mail (I want to hate it but I love it) and When Harry Met Sally.

    • Anon

      I was a lot like you! Big reader growing up – just didn’t watch a lot. A few I’ve discovered down the line that I like and I find people around my office tend to quote a lot/know (different age ranges): Legally Blonde (just the first one), Devil Wears Prada, Titanic, the Notebook, the Harry Potter Books/movies (not relevant if you’ve read them), Lord of the Rings, Castaway – lots of these aren’t really “good” – I’ve just noticed everyone has seen them in my 25-35 age bracket.

      • January

        Similar – big reader, not a big movie person.

        In addition to the above, I’d recommend seeing the first three Star Wars movies (the original 1970s ones) if you haven’t. There’s a decent number of cultural touchstones from these movies. I don’t think you need to see any of the more recent ones – I’ve seen a couple and they didn’t capture my interest.

    • Anon

      This isn’t exactly what you asked, but I wanted to put in a plug for a podcast I’ve really enjoyed over the past few years, Unspooled. They first watched all of the film on the American Film Institute’s Top 100 Film List and have now moved on to miniseries on best films of various types. I haven’t loved every film they’ve watched, but it’s been a great education in film history and even the ones I didn’t love, I gained an appreciation for after listening to the podcast, plus I watched a bunch of things I never would have on my own and ended up liking. Even if you’re not interested in the podcast, the AFI list is a good place to start for classic films. Some I really liked off the list were Dr. Strangelove, Jaws, Bringing Up Baby, Sullivan’s Travels, The Philadelphia Story, Casablanca, The Wizard of Oz, The Best Years of Our Lives, Some Like It Hot, E.T. , Schindler’s List, The Bridge on the River Kwai, The Sound of Music, West Side Story, Do the Right Thing, 12 Angry Men, The Apartment, and Rear Window.

      • Anon

        OMFG — how could I have forgotten The Philadelphia Story and Sound of Music and West Side Story and anything Monty Python?! Also: (very old) any of The Thin Man movies.

    • Anonymous

      The original Muppet Movie. Legally Blonde, Oceans Eleven, Iron Man, Dead Poets Society, and the Shawshank redemption. Fair warning that, without fail, the last two make me cry buckets and buckets, but I continue to rewatch them. Iron Man and Oceans 11 are just fast paced movies with a lot of witty dialogue, and those are generally my favorite movies.

    • Anon

      Office Space is a must watch if you work in any type of office.

      I also really liked Coyote Ugly.

      Consider watching some of the big box office hits. Titanic comes to mind. I saw that 3 times when it was in theaters. I think I was 16?

      • Anon

        +1 to Office Space for sure.
        (Although it came out when I was in college, and kind of made me terrified to graduate into the real world!)

    • Anonymous

      What are your favorite books? That might give us a sense of favorite themes and help us give you a list of must-watch.

      Like if you read Jane Austen last year’s Emma was amazing; many love the 1995 P&P. I’d say Room with a View is required watching no matter what, it’s such an amazing movie. I haven’t seen it in years but I remember Moulin Rouge being amazing also. Same for Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.

      But if you’re into sci fi like my husband the list would be totally different — Dune, Blade Runner, The Martian.

      You should see at least a few of the Disney movies — I liked Frozen a lot. Finding Nemo.

      • OP

        Great question! I mostly read non-fiction. I am currently reading One Life (Rapino), Grunt (Roach) and Breath (Nestor). I also started exploring fiction more last year and read A Man Called Ove/Anxious People (and many others by Backman), The Huntress (Quinn) and several female memoirs, a genre I’d never tried but really liked.

    • Vicky Austin

      I haven’t seen Princess Bride on this list yet, and I consider it absolutely essential viewing. Give it a whirl!

    • Gail the Goldfish

      Star Wars (original trilogy) is my favorite, but I frequently quote Office Space, which is particularly great if you have ever been an office drone, and in my opinion the most perfect rom com ever made is 10 Things I Hate About You.

    • Anon

      Office Space. A lot of workplace references will make more sense once you’ve seen it.

      Blazing Saddles, Spaceballs, A Christmas Story, Home Alone, Gremlins, Austin Powers, Real Genius… oh man, I could go on and on.

    • LadyB

      My Cousin Vinny, Breakfast Club, Ferris Bueller’s Day Off, Pretty Woman, A League of Their Own

      • NYNY

        shoutout to my fellow Gen Xers, LadyB and BeenThatGuy!

        Heathers, Edward Scissorhands, Flashdance, Footloose, Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure

    • Anonymous

      probably not often referenced on this board a lot, but James Bond in various versions comes up quite a lot in pop culture references. James Bond is definitely NOT my favorite action movie series, but it’s good to have at least seen one or two of the movies to know what other people are talking about.

      • Anonymous

        And you should watch some from the different Bonds. One of my pandemic activities was streaming the entire Bond movies with friends, and after watching all of them in order, Sean Connery’s Bond vs Daniel Craig’s Bond are two very different styles (and having rewatched them all, IMO Skyfall is the best Bond movie)

    • Anon

      All the Will Ferrell movies are often quoted in my friend group. Anchorman, Talladega Nights, etc.

      If you want some real old school pop culture references, you can check out Mall Rats, Chasing Amy, Clerks.

      Definitely Breakfast Club and Ferris Bueller’s Day Off too!

      And Top Gun!

      • anonymous

        I love Will Ferrell. We are always quoting Step Brothers. He’s also good in Stranger Than Fiction, which is not a comedy.

      • Anon

        Love top gun. Also, a few good men. Love young Tom Cruise as a young cocky Naval Officer

      • anon

        Ah yes, Will Ferrell movies. Old School is one of the most quoted movies in my friend group.

    • Anon

      I feel like for cultural references, depending on your age and crowd, some of the old school Adam Sandler movies like Billy Madison might be worth watching. I’ve definitely been known to quote that from time to time.

      50 Days of Summer is my favorite movie fwiw. I usually cry at one point though.

    • CPA Lady

      Mean Girls, Mallrats (if you grew up in the 90s), Mary Poppins, Casablanca, Rebecca, Pirates of the Caribbean, the original Star Wars trilogy, the Indiana Jones movies (NOT the new one), Auntie Mame, Cabaret, Rocky Horror Picture Show, Clue. Not all high brow classics, but all ones I love.

    • Ymanon

      Classic comedies, great dialogue:
      Some Like it Hot
      His Girl Friday
      The Philadelphia Story
      The African Queen
      Roman Holiday
      It Happened One Night
      How to Steal a Million

      Film Noir:
      The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep and Double Indemnity

      Westerns:
      The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (spaghetti western)
      Ran, Yojimbo and Seven Samurai by Akira Kurosawa (Kind Lear and Spaghetti westerns set in historical Japan)

      Classic epic cinematography:
      Lawrence of Arabia
      Blade Runner

      Modern epic cinematograpy:
      Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon

      Modern masterpiece:
      Parasite

    • Walnut

      40 year old virgin and Wedding Crashers are good for pop culture references. Some others for pop culture fun are Father of the Bride, National Lampoons Christmas Vacation, Planes Trains and Automobiles and Tommy Boy.

    • Curious

      You have a lot of replies so forgive me if this repeats but:
      Monty Python and the Holy Grail
      Back to the Future
      Pirates of the Caribbean
      Pan’s Labyrinth

      • JD

        Maybe pointing out that list is fun and funny (love Back to the Future) except.. Pan’s Labyrinth is so interesting but very intense.

    • Anonymous

      Mean Girls, Legally Blonde, The Princess Bride, and Harry Potter. Never got into Lord of the Rings myself but a lot of people I know LOVE those movies.

    • Anon

      Fried Green Tomatoes, Dead Poets Society, Sense and Sensibility (Emma Thompson one), Jurassic Park (original), Meet the Parents, Mean Girls, A Few Good Men. I also love a lot of kid movies: Up, Zootopia, How to Train your Dragon, Frozen 1 and 2 to name a few.

    • anonymous

      Bridesmaids
      Elf
      National Lampoon movies with Chevy Chase – Vacation and Christmas Vacation
      The Hangover movies

    • Senior Attorney

      Groundhog Day
      Galaxy Quest
      Pulp Fiction
      The Godfather I & II
      The Sixth Sense
      Singin’ in the Rain (and really any of the old MGM musicals)
      The Wizard of Oz

    • Anon

      Meet the Parents still makes me laugh out loud. Wedding Crashers is also great.

      I love Will Ferrell movies (I think he’s hilarious, but YMMV), and there’s a lot of pop culture references from his movies. Anchorman, Talledega Nights, Step Brothers, Old School, Blades of Glory are some of my favorites.

      Some other great ones: Top Gun, Clueless, Mean Girls, the Princess Bride

      Classics that are great: Sound of Music, Casablanca, Cool Hand Luke, White Christmas

      Recently, I loved Jojo Rabbit

    • NYCer

      Good Will Hunting and Shawshank Redemption are both great. I also enjoy the Star Wars movies.

      • Mrs. Jones

        I kept scrolling in the hope there would be a Coen brothers movie on here. Personally my fave is Raising Arizona which I quote almost daily.

        • anon

          Rushmore is my favorite. I quote it a lot.

          (“These are OR scrubs.” “OH ARE they?”)

          • anon

            Whoops, that’s Wes Anderson not Coen Brothers though.

            Other great Wes Anderson movies: The Royal Tenenbaums, Life Aquatic, Moonrise Kingdom, Bottle Rocket. But Rushmore is my favorite.

        • Anon

          Go get me one of them toddlers, Hi!

          and

          I love him so much (crying)

          These are near daily utterances in my house. But I still quote The Dude more. Also, Walter. This aggression will not stand, man. Shut the F up, Donny! Let me just go find a cash machine. There’s a beverage here, man! Stay out of Malibu, Lebowski! That rug really tied the room together. That’s by the In n Out, Dude. Obviously you’re not a golfer. Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man. In the parlance of our times. Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it’s an ethos. This is not Nam, this is bowling – there are rules.

          ObVS I could go on and on. It’s the gift that keeps on giving.

    • Seventh Sister

      Point Break. Peak Keanu Reeves and Patrick Swayze. Extremely pretty (you could watch it with the sound off), and while it seems like the world’s dumbest premise when you start, all of a sudden it’s been 45 minutes and you haven’t moved a muscle.

      Completely different genre, but It’s a Wonderful Life.

      • Seventh Sister

        While I find nearly everything about James Cameron to be tiresome, the first two Terminator movies are quite well-done and frequently referenced in pop culture. I didn’t mind watching them at all (for free, on streaming).

        • Anonymous

          +1. I’d add Alien (by another famous director, Ridley Scott – very suspenseful) and Alien 2 (James Cameron – more traditional action but very good).

          • Seventh Sister

            I really should just buckle down and watch the Aliens movies. My dad was a pretty hard-core art house guy so growing up in the 1980s and 90s, I saw pretty much everything directed by Zhang Yimou but didn’t see Die Hard until college.

    • anon

      Fun! I like The Usual Suspects, LA Confidential, Casablanca, Spygame, Enemy of the State, Oceans 11 (george clooney version), Contact, The Pelican Brief (my fav Julia Roberts), Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark, Jurassic Park (Laura Dern), The Princess Bride, and Fargo.

    • AnonATL

      Steel magnolias when I want a good laugh and cry in the same movie. My husband thought it was super dumb but whatever.

      • anoninco

        second this and it might have already been mentioned but Fried Green Tomatoes

        • anon

          Titanic
          Election
          Love Actually
          My Best Friend’s Wedding
          S3x and the City movie
          My Big Fat Greek Wedding
          Bend it like Beckham
          Half Baked
          Charlies Angels
          It’s Complicated

    • CountC

      Oh man, I too didn’t watch too many movies or much tv growing up. Some of my faves:

      – Butter
      – The Thomas Crown Affair (Brosnan version)
      – Garden State
      – Election
      – I <3 Huckabees
      – The Goonies

    • Anonymous

      Muppet treasure island, Mean Girls, Titanic, Philadelphia Story, Parent Trap, 10’Things I hate About You, Sister Act, Sound of Music, Mary Poppins, Breakfast Club, Empire Records, Oceans 11

  7. Anon

    I realized this week that not going into the office has torpedoed my decluttering efforts. Semi-annual book drives and women’s shelter drives were what kept me motivated to streamline my office and wardrobe. Ugh, intrinsic motivation is a killer.

  8. Anon

    Anyone in NYC have thoughts on the Mayor’s race? So far I don’t really like anyone much…

    • Anon

      I like Diane Morales a lot, and will probably also rank Shaun Donovan and Kathryn Garcia – I’m further to the left than the last two, but I do think they are competent at least. Def def def do not want Yang to win, what a disaster…

    • Anon in NY

      I haven’t heard of anyone who’s running except Andrew Yang and maybe the Brooklyn borough president (?) but don’t know his name.

      Now that you’ve asked this, I just looked it up and there’s 22 candidates, which is insane. I’ll have to look into them all I guess, but if I can find an anti-Trump republican, I’ll vote for them. Otherwise, maybe an independent?

      • Anonymous

        Whoever wins the Democratic primary is most likely to be the next mayor. If you are not voting in the primary, you can tune out until next fall. The primary is in June.

      • NYCer

        You have to be registered as a Democrat to vote in the June primary, which will essentially decide the election. If you are not registered with a party or are registered as a Republican/Independent, you cannot vote on the Democratic candidates. There was a big push this year to get people to register with a party (I know, because I wasn’t previously registered with a party), but the deadline has already passed.

      • NYNY

        Eric Adams is running as a Democrat, but he’s really not one. You might like him or Ray McGuire.

        I’m figuring out how to rank my choices, but I’m liking Dianne Morales and Maya Wiley best, liked Stringer but believe Jean Kim, so he’s out. If Yang wants to work in government, he needs to start smaller – neither US president nor NYC mayor is an entry-level position, and the last thing we need is another amateur.

        Seconding The City as an excellent resource. I just donated to them, because they fill a local journalism hole.

    • buffybot

      The added complication is that we have ranked choice voting this year, so I feel like it’s not sufficient to identify my preferred candidate (still not sure on this) but I need to think about fallbacks. It’s too many people. Hoping more drop out, truthfully.
      Yang is running a terrible campaign (or *perhaps* he is a terrible candidate). I’d like someone with true leadership experience in crisis, since I think the coming years are going to be very challenging for NYC.

    • Anonymous

      I’m really saddened by the allegations against Scott Stringer. I need to look into them more but am most likely going to rank highly the women – Garcia, Wiley, and Morales.

      But I too am somewhat in the anyone but Yang camp. He’s never even voted for Mayor and thinks he could do a good job at it? He has really amazing hubris, even when compared to the Andrew Cuomos of the world.

  9. Anon

    Is anyone watching Mare from Easttown? I love Kate Winslet in it (and as a grandmother no less).

    • emeralds

      I love Kate Winslet and gritty crime dramas, so Mare from Easttown was made for me specifically. It’s a fantastic show so far.

    • Anon

      Yes, I like it so far. She is such a good actress. It’s the first show we’ve watched in eons where all the episodes aren’t already available, and it’s kind of funny waiting every week for the new one!

    • anon

      I am watching as well and love it. Maybe it’s the more down to earth people, the depiction of less than perfect situations and less than motivated people to change them. Or maybe it’s a rare show that is showing what a happens when you’re in the middle of ‘mid life’ and nothing is as you thought it would be, but you must soldier on. Kate Winslet is delivering and I am already counting the days till the next episode drops.

    • Anon

      I want to bc I’m intrigued by her attempt at a Philly / Delco accent (it’s been really hyped up here). Not gonna lie – I saw the title and thought she was the Mayor (Mayor and Mare are pronounced the same here)

      • Anon

        I’ve kind of assumed that was intentional? Like she’s the unofficial “Mayor” if you will, because she knows everyone and is involved in so much?

    • Anon

      I’m loving it so much. The character is my same age so I’m finding it fascinating to think about what kind of parallel life I could have had (needless to say I am not a grandmother, and also I left my hometown to get away from some of the problems Mare is facing with all these people who have known her her entire life). They are unfurling the story really well so far, I can’t wait to see what happens. If they had dropped the whole series on one day I would have stayed up all night bingeing it.

    • Seventh Sister

      I’m intrigued by the reviews – that’s a terribly difficult accent to nail but I’m committed to a Finnish murder show right now so it may need to stay in the queue for a while.

      • emeralds

        Ooh what Finnish murder show?

        My husband is from Central PA and has spent a lot of time in Philly/Delco, and he says they’ve nailed the accent so far.

        • Seventh Sister

          I’m watching Deadwind – it’s about a woman who is a police detective and a widow with a work partner who is this full-of-himself youngish guy. I liked Bordertown (another Finnish murder show) a lot more, though both definitely borrow from what I think of as the CBS geriatric crime procedural model.

          My favorites in this genre are the Department Q movies and the Valhalla Murders, with Trapped being a close third place.

  10. Shopping for a 66 year old woman?

    My mom has asked me to go shopping with her. She’s in the twilight of a career where she wore, at the very least, a blazer and skirt every day, if not a full on suit. Between COVID work from home – she’s planning to work for another 2-3 years before retirement, and senior people have the ability to work from home pretty often – and a general “casualization”, she’s a bit lost on what’s both age appropriate and more trendy. Does anyone have a recommendation for stores or places to start? I’m 31, and between different lifestyles – I work in tech…so lots of branded fleeces – and very different body shapes (I’m a pear, she’s an apple), I don’t know where to start. She’s 5’11” and a size 10-12 and tends toward classics – she has no qualms about spending money on good clothes assuming they’re nice quality.

    • Anonymous

      Nordstrom, Bloomingdales, Neiman Marcus, Eileen Fisher, Chico’s, Talbots

    • Anonymous

      Lands End? A variety of fits for petite/plus/tall. I’d have her get 3 dresses for the office (since she likes skirts), and 3 blouses and 3 embellished/zoom friendly t-shirts for WFH. It’s a reasonable price point, decent quality but not too much of an investment if she changes her mind.

      Talbots was also popular when my mom was at that stage of her career. Where does she shop now? I find many of my ‘go-to’ places are leaning into the pandemic by offering more WFH/casual clothes in their spring collection vs. suits so she may find good options at her current favorite stores.

      • Anon

        I used to be all-in on LE and then less so and my recent purchases there have really impressed me. They do Talls well IMO. Their athleisure and casual office pieces are high-quality and yet are priced to where you can justify tailoring items so they look really sharp.

      • Anon

        I feel like this is worth a shot. I’m midway b/w you and your mom and short and I feel like there are not enough of easy-to-find clothes for me, where I might defer to an expert vs more trial and error. Height is a challenge (my daughters are very tall) at any age/stage, so BR-Gap-ON-Athleta are our family go-tos for tall clothes (and petite for me). With her height, I’d consider trying on Akris Punto, St. John (not matchy sets, but things that can be worn as separates), and Lafayette, which I feel can be better on a taller person. Also Boss.

    • Cat

      Bloomingdales or Nordstrom personal shopping.

      Lafayette 148 (not sure who carries, used to be NM)

    • Flats Only

      I am not as old as your mom, but in my quest to look good in the office as a not-young person, I strive for “contemporary and flattering”. So blazers in a current length, pants in a current style, cuts that look good on me. I do not strive to be “trendy”. She might try that approach when describing what she wants to store personnel.

      • Senior Attorney

        Also maybe show her some fashion blogs or Instagrams and see if there are any that resonate with her?

    • Anonymous

      What about J. Crew? My mother is in her mid 70s and retired and gets a lot of clothes from them. Not sure how good they are for tall sizes though.

    • Anonymous

      Banana Republic has good work appropriate basics in tall sizes. On sale the price point is very reasonable.

    • Anonymous

      Talbots has been mentioned a couple of times already. I think their knit or sweater blazers are great. Dressy enough for the office, but casual at the same time. Some of their clothes are a bit brightly coloured for me, but they generally carry a lot of colours in a style, so if your Mom likes a style and fit, but not the colour be sure to look online because they often have more colours.

      • Seventh Sister

        Talbots also seems to keep its necklines on the higher end, which I appreciate as a middle-aged office lady.

    • NYNY

      More formal, from least to most expensive: Talbot’s, Lafayette 148, St. John, Max Mara
      More casual: Talbot’s, Chico’s, Nic & Zoe, Eileen Fisher

  11. Anon for this

    Is there a way to find all the bank accounts that are open under one’s SSN? I got a letter from a bank thanking me for my new account – which I did not open. I called them and initiated the fraud investigation, and my credit is already frozen at all 3 bureaus.

    My credit report doesn’t seem to list regular old bank accounts associated with my identity – is there a way to hunt these down?

    • Panda Bear

      I feel like this might be the kind of thing your EAP could find resources for (if you work for a company that has one).

    • Anon 2.0

      Agree on ChexSystems. Not all banks report to them so there could be some that fall thru the cracks if opened at small institutions.

      Might be worth a shot to try TeleCheck too. Accounts aren’t reported to them but if someone starts writing bad checks under your name, it is likely they are going to show up on TeleCheck, especially if the checks are sent to collections.

      • Anon

        If you’re still reading, try Certegy and Early Warning as well – they are other speciality consumer reporting agencies like TeleCheck and ChexxSystems that reports on on checking/banking activity.

        Also keep in mind that what at first appears to be ID theft might be the agencies mixing you up with another person due to bad matching procedures, so it may be worthwhile to talk to an attorney with credit reporting expertise – many do free consults.

  12. Anon

    Yesterday there was a request for linen pants suggestions, I didn’t see it until too late but wanted to chime in. I recently purchased a pair from a website called OneQuince and am really enjoying them. They have an elastic waist band, and the linen fabric feels substantial, and they’re $40. I’m ordering them in every color now. For sizing reference, I’m a size 4 at MM LaFleur, size 28 in most jeans, and the Small fit comfortably. Link below:

    https://www.onequince.com/women/linen-pants?color=driftwood&tracker=collection_bottoms__desktop__4_3&gender=women

  13. Anonymous

    TW weight.

    After a lifetime of disordered eating, I started doing intuitive eating several years ago and totally loved it. I particularly appreciated the peace that came with my of my weight not changing and not needing to buy a new size of clothes every time I yo-yo’d. Things have been really stable until COVID. At the beginning of the pandemic I lost a bit of weight from stress but since about last fall it has been steadily climbing to the point that the jeans I have had for 5 years now don’t fit. I want to cry. I am staunchly anti-diet but I’m also feeling a high degree of frustration with my body that reminds me of how I felt before I got into intuitive eating. It’s so frustrating that after years of peace and stability, I’m gaining weight and my clothes don’t fit again.

    I’m trying to be gentle with myself and I will buy some clothes that fit me right now. But I’m also not thrilled with the weight gain and would like to lose it. Has anyone who follows intuitive eating lost weight doing it, or experienced hiccups during the pandemic after a period of stablity?

    • Flats Only

      Can you set the problem aside until your life looks a little more like it did pre-covid? If you’ll be going back to the office eventually, that will probably change your exercise routines and eating patterns back to what they were, which might mean the weight falls back off on its own. For me the pandemic meant less walking around in the office during the day, but also fewer random snacks and lunches out, so I’ve lost a bit of weight. I suspect once I’m back to the office I might gain that little bit back. Maybe the reverse will be true for you.

    • Anonymous

      I also practice intuitive eating and I urge you to strike out your question at the end. It’s not relevant to your journey. I know that’s so hard to accept – believe me, I know. In fact, it was one of the very hardest things for me to accept and still is! But I really think it’s worth moving past. It is definitely part of IE that there will be hiccups and changes throughout your life, especially when you’ve just lived through a global pandemic that still isn’t over. Dieting isn’t the answer and hoping that IE will produce weight loss isn’t either. Hugs to you – I know how hard this is and have been there myself too many times to count.

    • Anonymous

      How old are you? I noticed a slide in my metabolism from 35-42. I had to reassess what I was doing. Being intentional about including protein with each meal helped. Treats like cake and cookies had to be more occasional. What worked for me was developing a list of go-to foods that I love so when I want a treat and I’m tired/stressed I don’t have to put as much effort into thinking of what I want. Sometimes life gets busy and it’s hard to think of what to eat. Like frozen mango blended to a sherbet consistency is something I love just as much as cookie dough ice cream but having an actual list of things like that is super helpful when grocery shopping or in the moment when picking something.

      Pandemically related – I have to make an effort to walk each day. Walking from the subway to work was more steps than I realized.

      • Anonymous

        +1 to metabolic changes as you age are real. I am not doing intuitive eating per se but I have learned through painful experience that what worked at age 30 does not work at age 44. So, maybe radical acceptance of where your body is now and an excuse to go shopping? Hugs, I know this is much easier said than done. The fact that you have gained weight and/or your body has changed does not mean your eating is disordered or that you are doing anything wrong or unhealthy.

    • Anon

      A few weeks ago, there was a discussion here about people who gain weight when they do not exercise, regardless of how well they eat. (I am one of those people.) If you fall into that category at all, it’s likely that WFH sluggishness is causing the weight gain, not your eating patterns. Fix that problem; go for a 15 minute walk in the morning and another at lunch. See where you are at the end of June.

      • anoninco

        Agree with this. I have experienced this personally and I also tell my patients (I’m an Internal Medicine Physician) to introduce activity/moderate exercise daily regardless of the truth that weight is gained in the kitchen. The exercise keeps you reaching for water and your body should crave healthier options – protein, food with water content (fruits/veggies) and is also just great for your heart, joints, bones, and mind.

  14. Monday

    Another book recommendation! Perfect Me: Beauty as an Ethical Ideal by Heather Widdows. This is an academic philosophy book, and has some repetition, but the ideas were so compelling to me and reminded me of discussions on this board.

    Her argument is that beauty standards are becoming narrower, more standardized across the world, and more demanding. Things that used to be considered extreme beauty interventions have become “minimal” or “required,” and the process is continuing with the expectations always rising. It’s become a “statement” to simply not cover your gray hair, or not shave your legs. She takes on the argument that beauty activities are simply “my choice” or “for myself,” given the context of how much pressure we have to conform, and the consequences of opting out–but does not deny that there’s pleasure and bonding in some of the activities too. Finally, she looks at how hard it is to criticize the beauty ideal without seeming to attack women who do particular things. For example, I don’t want to become an anomaly or a “statement” for not using fillers or Botox. I think they’re extreme. But I’m not attacking people who get them. I don’t really see this articulated anywhere else.

    • Anonymous

      None of that is “required.” I completely understand the argument and the point, but we also tend to forget that it is very, very possible (and way more common than you think) to opt out completely.

      Also, the “it’s my choice and I do it for me” argument was never strong. If it were, you’d see a more even distribution of women who wear makeup and women who don’t, women who shave and women who don’t, but the distribution is very biased towards interventions. Then it changes during things like national lockdowns when there is no one around to see your handiwork.

      • Monday

        As a thought exercise, though–how would you know when something was “required”? If you’ve never seen a woman in a senior work position who doesn’t wear makeup or shave her legs (I haven’t), then how do we know it’s not required?

        • Anonymous

          Because it doesn’t matter to me if she shaves her legs. Why does that mean I HAVE to shave mine? I guess it depends on how much you think other people’s actions need to influence your own. It’s obviously really hard to go your own way when most are going another way, but I still wouldn’t view that as an indication that certain grooming is “required.”

        • Anonymous

          I’m a senior woman and I wear makeup never to work. It’s completely fine.

        • Anonymous

          Yeah there are no female executives rocking hairy legs and a skirt suit. It’s so disingenuous to argue its a choice because it’s not. Unless you want to stunt your career and cause immense difficulties for yourself, you fall in line.

          • Anon

            I did work with a beautiful senior (in position, not age) woman who wore business skirts and dresses and did not shave her legs or armpits. It actually didn’t look terrible. It was well past the stubble stage and was just soft looking fine dark hairs on her legs. It didn’t look like men’s legs.

        • Anon

          I worked with the senior most woman at my last company and day to day she didn’t wear makeup. But for big meetings, photographs, videos, etc she did wear it. Sometimes it was kind of a shock to see her in makeup (because she had pale lashes, mascara made her look completely different) and I wondered if it would have been better if she wore it consistently.

    • Anon

      Hair extensions come to mind as a requirement (i.e. not having gorgeous, long thick hair is a requirement). I don’t have a problem with any beauty procedure or treatment, but they are certainly a luxury, not just in terms of money but time. Even assuming a busy working woman can afford treatments, how does she fit them all into her schedule?

      • Monday

        Yeah, she discusses “opportunity costs” in terms of the time and money that go into beautifying and could have gone to other things.

      • Anonn

        I’ll push back at least in re Botox here. It takes 10 mins mac and I do it over lunch.

        I wouldn’t say I am senior yet, but I don’t shave my legs and I don’t have any plans to start as my career continues to advance. I’m in my 40s FWIW

    • Anon

      Interesting — I feel like standards are getting broader. Like you used to only see white blond dolls (and models and actresses), but now, I can get a doll that looks like me as a girl and see models and actresses who look like me. Perfect? No. But better. No one wears a girdle. I feel like hair is more accessible — you can wear your hair as it naturally is (and men can be bald — hopefully comb-overs and hair plugs are gone for good).

      I get that body hair is still a thing (and my eye likes it gone, at least on me).

      I work in a world of Gravely Concerning Things and if I showed up with heavily contoured makeup and obvious extensions, I’d likely have my judgment questioned. I have daughters and this is not a thing with them (but I could see fancy hair, either DIY or salon-did, and fake hair as fancy hair things, but some women routinely wear wigs for ease of upkeep and I wouldn’t want to shame them). Maybe in a world from music videos does everyone have extensions and surgically-enhanced things about them, but not in teen world in my city or adult world.

      And I feel like it is OK to be flat-chested / athletic and not just hourglass-shaped. And it’s OK to be plus-sized (which is good, b/c that is what people often are). So I see movement forward and only in some areas is there One Look.

      • Monday

        She argues that you are only allowed to deviate from the ideal in one way, and I find that true. For example: you can be plus-sized but you need to be young, firm, with specific curves, and have smooth skin.

        Dark-skinned people use lighteners, and light-skinned people use tanning lotion or tanning. Women from various backgrounds get nose jobs to get the same nose. Women with hooded eyes get eye surgery to make their eyes look larger. I agree that we see variety, but underneath it I think there’s a deeper convergence.

        • Monday

          People even refer to “the internal corset,” i.e. that restrictive garments were replaced by pressure to diet and work out with a goal of thinness.

        • Anon

          Even if people wear spanx, no one has that crazy tiny defined waist any more. Even the Kardashians get theirs via photoshop.

          I do feel that in some areas, no one has real boobs anymore (whereas no one really cares about your nose).

    • Anonymous

      I don’t know how new this is. In picking a jury in 2002, I recall the senior white guy lawyer discussing the “statement” being made by the wealthy woman on the panel who didn’t dye her salt and pepper hair.

      • Monday

        It’s not new, she’s just arguing there’s a progression going on where “normal” appearance involves more and more intervention.

    • Cat

      I’m not sure expectations are as ubiquitous as your description makes them sound, but the pandemic has taught me that the only beauty treatment I do truly for myself is my hair cuts & colors. (Thankfully my office culture is not one with lots of video meetings!)

      But on the flip side I’ve gotten way more comfortable going about in the world makeup-free or with only minimal makeup (e.g., just concealer on blemishes). I used to worry I’d run into someone I know and they’d see me without my usual office face on, but… idk I’m over it.

    • Anon

      I don’t know where y’all live but in SF doing any of the things listed (hair color, Botox, lashes, etc.) is the exception not the rule. This is the land of wrinkles, grey hair, no makeup.

        • Seventh Sister

          For sure. I feel like such a mouse in LA because I just cannot do a full face of makeup to go to the grocery store. Or fake lashes. I don’t like leaving the house without powder and lipstick, but I’ve been like that since 1992 and will break that rule for a very early coffee run.

          I do color my gray hair. Some women in my social circle really do get on their high horse about not coloring gray hair or wearing makeup, which just takes me back to the late 90s and the fussy debates over whether it was OK to wear pretty dresses as a serious feminist. I’m sorry I listened back then, and I’m not listening now.

    • Anon

      I am a feminist and I have an extensive makeup collection. I think I came to makeup because I had bad skin in my teens and early adulthood and 100% felt societal pressure to cover it up. But I also like makeup. I don’t do big eye looks including false lashes, but I’m a daily wearer of BB cream, brow pencil, mascara, usually light eyeliner, and blush. In non-mask times, I also like a sheer color on my lips.

      So I know I came to this via societal expectations, but I actually really enjoy it. I also enjoy skincare and this seems an extension of it for me – a moment of self-care.

  15. Anon

    I’ve been working for Big Teapot (to use some Ask A Manager terminology), a large consulting company, for six years now. In general, I like the work I do, feel that I’m paid well for the interesting projects I work on, like and admire many of the people I work with, and have developed some good friends here. My company is going to merge with a competitor to become BigBig Teapot, and I’m wondering what my place will be there – although I have no reason to suspect I’d be let go, or even that my job would change much in the near future. In short, I am happy and secure in my position.

    I’ve just gotten word I’m getting an offer from Teensy Tiny Teapot – a MUCH smaller company that just entered my market with related by not exactly the same line of work (although that shift reflects, what I perceive to be, a longer horizon than the job I’m at currently). I’m fairly excited about this opportunity but have some concerns, mainly due to the smaller company and the additional responsibility I’d take on. Lots of unknowns here, but ones I feel like would probably turn out okay, at the very least.

    Questions:
    A) How would you determine if the jump in salary is worth the risk you’d take by leaving a stable job you’re currently in and reasonably happy doing?
    B) Assuming the salary level is enough to justify the risk, how do I frame the emotional attachment to my job, friends, teams and team leads so that I feel comfortable leaving?

    • Z

      Are there other benefits your lose/gain if you move? Commute time (if both are/will be in person), vacation time, weekly hours, if any of those hours can be flexible, etc.

      • Anon

        Thank you, good questions! I’ve already plotted down what I’m getting now as a handy reference. I have a defined benefit pension at my current job which I estimate to be going away after Big merges to become BigBig, and not sure of Teensy Tiny’s deferred compensation structure, so I will check that out. I may lose some short-term incentive bonus but my guess is for longer-term increase in annual pay. Both WFH for the foreseeable future. So much to consider!

    • Cat

      What other hats might you have to wear at Teensy? Will you need to participate in client development or marketing more so than today?

      Do they have a stable pipeline? Are they doing well because of only a few major clients and if one of those goes elsewhere you’re suffering?

      • Anon

        More good questions, thank you! Teensy is exciting because they need a lead consultant in the new market here, and that would be me. They are well-established with their particular type of client in other areas of the country. I would need to spend 9-12 months getting up to speed on the new rules regarding Teensy’s area, and building into working with their team around the country to do new business development and all current client work. I’ve identified a couple of good mentors at Teensy. Big has well-established consultants that I learn so much from, but would be a few years out of doing this kind of work here.

        Big’s clients are big so we get Big Exciting Projects from them, but by nature of our business these clients are dwindling (but stable for now). Teensy’s clients are smaller, but these clients are all but guaranteed to be around forever.

      • MJ

        I absolutely abhor sales and BD, so it would be a hard no for me to be the boots on the ground trying to win business PLUS doing my regular job, at a competitor that is new to the market. Professional services engagements are sticky and take time. This will be long and hard time, where you put in lots of work to win over clients, pitches that take lots of time, meetings, etc….and it could all be fruitless, plus you’d be needing to deliver on regular work. While all of that sounds exciting to some, that sounds absolutely thankless and exhausting to me. I think fear of the unknown is driving you here, and you should see how things shakeout post-merger.

        • Anon

          I hear that, thanks for this thought. My favorite thing about my current job has always been the client meetings and business development opportunities, so I am feeling optimistic about these opportunities – but you’re right that if it doesn’t pan out, it’s exhausting.

    • MagicUnicorn

      Just how teensy is teensy? If you are going from a company of hundreds or thousands to one with only a handful or a few dozen employees, be very sure you ask about and are comfortable with all the unwritten expectations regarding tasks not on the job description, availability outside normal working hours, team coverage and ability to actually take time off, etc. It can be a shock to go from a specialized role with a big firm to one where you are expected to be in the holiday receptionist rotation in addition to engineering teapot lids.

      • Anon

        More good questions! Teensy is TEENSY, <1% the size of Big. I discussed with the CEO/President/Owner, as well as a few of my contacts there, about work-life balance and the additional responsibilities at Teensy due to the size, and frankly, their answers energized me. It's a different pace and the company prizes itself on being their employees' last job (and not because they kill them, teehee). On paper it's good, and I'm lucky. I just feel like I would be leaving my teams down if I leave them, and I suppose I need to get past that.

        • anon

          If you feel good about it and have asked good questions that are important to you then I think it’s okay to proceed, with the knowledge that things can always change. I worked for a teensy company (team of 10) and it was okay for a while, and has lead me to other opportunities so not much regret there. The issue was that, things do change. The team merged and unmerged several times with various corporations as my boss tried to leverage their reach for expansion. I ended up with a progressively worse commute and company culture every time we changed office. Our service was very niche but the clients were starting to want to commoditize it so that they don’t have to pay for specialized expertise. That put the pressure on the bossman to diversify but it was tough breaking in the market for general services because the local firms are large and strong and have standing relationships with the clients. I also had to take on many roles, some of which I have no interest in ever doing. It didn’t work out for me but I gained some good experience and was okay that it didn’t last til retirement.

    • Anon

      I have always chosen to be the big fish in a small pond (after appropriately stamping my resume at Big Teapot), so I wouldn’t hesitate to make that move.

    • Anon

      For a different perspective: why is teensy teapot hiring you exactly? That is not very common for teensies and can be telling in itself.

      I work for a formerly teensy, now small, very specialised and successful little teapot. We hire people 95% of the time right out of college and train them to our stansards. We only hire established talent from big teapots when we are trying to build a new practice that we don’t have expertise in house for yet, or trying to break into new markets.

      Sometimes that new practice grows – great for you! But sometimes it flounders, and big teapot hire leaves very shortly after. If the situation is anything like this, ask how experienced they are in growig a practice, what support you will have, etc. And try to gauge the risk.

      Other than that one caveat, my personal take is that I wouldn’t go to a big teapot if you paid me double – I am already well paid, work wih smart people, have good benefits, the culture is a lot more collaborative than big teapots ever can be, etc. etc. Plus I like having a significant impact in my workplace and am already up the foodchain with more growth potential in the future. Smart, well managed, focused little teapots are for me way better places to work than big ones (I’ve been in both). If they get disfunctional on the other hand, they can be worse too I guess… Evaluate them carefully.

  16. Anon

    Is Agile Six Sigma training outdated? What is the hot new thing in general consulting? I have an opportunity to have my employer pay for a certification. I like learning and would be happy to do just about anything, but don’t know what is out there that is well recognized. My job is leading business operations, and is generally very broad. Previously I’ve taken financial analysis, programming (C++, Python, SQL), “how to train people”, and six-sigma related courses. All were very helpful but I did not earn any certificates. TIA!

    • NYNY

      I would only do six sigma certification if there were opportunities it opened up. A PMP is more versatile, and would cover multiple project management methodologies.

      • Anon

        If you can’t do a full PMP (the time commitment and effort is significant) you can do a CAPM.

    • MJ

      I would focus on leadership development training or soft skills training if you have all of those harder skills. Like a course for mid-senior women, or a course on hiring or DEI. As you get more senior, it is less about your hard skills and more about your soft skills, IME.

    • Anon

      OP here, thanks for the replies! Are there any recommendations for mid-senior leadership courses? I’ve taken piles of these from LinkedIn learning that are available through work, but again, hoping to earn a meaningful certificate that helps me further my career.

  17. Summer camp question

    Posted this on the moms board too but looking for parents of older kids as well. When did you first send your kids to overnight camp/for how long? DD is entering first this summer, so looking ahead.

    And how did you choose? I don’t want to send her with a bunch of her classmates, but I don’t know how else to figure it out. For various reasons, I don’t see sending her to the camp I grew up going to, but I do think camp is a great experience if you can make it happen. I actually have three girls, so will be a much easier decision for the younger two!

    • Cat

      I was 7 for my first overnight camp and I cried and then I got over it and had fun. It was for a pretty short trip (a week or less). Junior high I did 2 weeks at a time. High school it was 4-6 weeks.

    • Anon

      Not a parent, but I started going at 10 for 1 week before increasing length in subsequent summers. I plan to send my [not yet existent] kids starting around 8. If you’re in New England, Camp Nellie Huckins for girls was the best camp by far. I did not go there, but a lot of girls I crossed paths with growing up did and everyone raves about it. Becket for boys seems to have a similar positive alumni feedback.

    • Anon

      My son went for the first time the summer after K. He had a great experience at Gwynn Valley in NC.

    • Anon

      Not a parent, but I started going the summer I was entering 2nd grade. We moved the summer going into 1st grade, or I’d have probably gone then. One week that first year, and more as I got older. I LOVED IT except for one year between middle school grades when I ended up in a session of mean girls.

    • No Face

      I was in 4th grade for a week long overnight YMCA camp. Love it despite some normal hiccups, and went to camp every year until I was too old.

      I really liked that none of my classmates were there. It was nice to have a new environment with new people.

    • Anon

      I started at sleepaway camp the summer before 3rd grade. I think I had just turned 9? I went to a YMCA camp, specifically Camp Mason in NJ, and highly recommend if you’re in the NY metro area. I would look for camps that offer a variety of things: opportunities to play a lot of sports is great, but so is the opportunity to do artsy things and outdoorsy day trips (canoeing, kayaking, tubing, hiking, etc.). Also, I have never been outdoorsy so I really appreciated living in a (very rustic, low tech, no AC, etc.) cabin, rather than some of my friends’ camps where they slept in platform tents–I definitely think I would have had a problem with that.

    • Anon

      I think it depends on camp culture where you are. I have friends (largely from the east coast but maybe this isn’t completely regional) who grew up going to the same camp every year. If that’s what you’re talking about, I’d look at it like school and try to get in early enough so cliques aren’t formed before your kid goes there. I grew up going to camp randomly and usually for sports training. So that was just whenever age/stage wise and I went with friends from school.

    • Anon

      My daughter did a week long camp the summer after 1st grade and loved it. Big caveat that she was all for it. I don’t think we would have sent her for a week that young if she had not been so enthusiastic.

    • Anonymous

      My 8 year old, rising 3rd grader is going for the first time this summer. She was supposed to go to the half-week “intro camp” last summer, but it was cancelled for COVID.

    • CountC

      I want to say I was 9 or 10 when I first went to sleep away camp. Two weeks at a time. I LOVED IT. I went to a horse camp that was a part of a much larger general camp, so while most of our time was spent in the barn, we also got time at the pool, lake, arts, camp fires, and the dances with general camp. I went to regular horse camp for several years, then was asked to be a part of the show team, and then was a counselor for the show team. Man did I LOVE that camp. If you are east coast, it’s Camp Friendship outside of Charlottesville, VA.

  18. Tool to assess credit rating of companies

    Is there a website/tool to assess the financial credibility or credit rating of a private company, smaller sized? I’m tasked with a mini due diligence project to find out whether another company is on the verge of closing down due to lack of funds/credit, but am failing to come up with the right resource. Even proper search terms would probably help me.

    • Anon.

      Equifax, Experian and Dun & Bradstreet probably offer the kind of reports you are looking for.

  19. anonameese

    Trying to take a deep breath and needing good vibes from the universe. Dealing with a really stressful financial issue at the same time that my partner and I are beginning fertility treatments. I can’t share the details with people in my personal life but I’m so scared and stressed. I saw a woman and her baby coming out of the fertility center the other day and part of me totally freaked and thought – do I even want ANY of this….? My mind is a mess.
    Planning to attend a support group for fertility and then maybe see a therapist. In the meantime, what can I do to keep my life together (and oh yeah, of course I am also working full time and trying to be a competent employee).

    • Anon

      Ok deep breaths. Can you take a 1 month pause on the fertility process until you can clear your head? Get out from under the financial issue and your doubts about motherhood? Definitely raise all this in therapy, and yeah, today you can push all your appointments out one month.

    • KP

      This is going to be quite a story for your child’s later birthday! I am trying to say that someday you will look back on this and wonder how you did it, but be glad you did.

  20. Anon

    Anyone care to chime in with some typical interview questions for an entry level position? The skills stuff is covered, so this would be more “greatest challenge, strengths and weaknesses” kind of thing. I’m mentoring college students and trying to help them prepare.

    • Anon

      How did you handle a situation with multiple competing priorities with tight deadlines? (College students can always talk about finals prep)

    • anonymous

      Ask A Manager has a free guide for download – How to Prepare for an Interview.

    • anon

      Tell me about yourself.
      Why should I hire you?
      Being prepared to address any negatives on their resume, low grade(s), etc.
      Why do you want this job?
      Why do you want to work at this company?
      What are your goals / where do you see yourself in 5, 10, 15 years
      Describe a time you [had a conflict with a peer / encountered a problem you didn’t know how to solve ‘ etc.] and how you dealt with it.

      I’d go over how to recognize and respond to softball questions, and also being prepared for more confrontational interview styles (which I personally hate, and think is counterproductive as a candidate-selection tool, but there are plenty of people who like to put you on the defensive).

    • Anon.

      You could also ask how they managed their team projects – project plan, timeline, deliverables, conflicts.

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