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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I’m absolutely swooning over this cardigan from Sézane, a brand I often look to for cool French girl inspiration. The violet print is feminine without being cutesy, and the mohair/wool blend looks unbelievably cozy.
I would pair this with navy trousers and loafers for the office or with a pair of high-waisted jeans and sneakers for an easy weekend outfit.
The sweater is $150 at Sézane and comes in sizes XXS–XXXL.
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Anon
Love Sézane but I just cannot with all the mohair this winter. I love wool but mohair makes me want to scratch.
Anywho . . . If you or someone you know is a CPAP user, what finally got you or that person to see a doctor and start getting evaluated? The users I know describe it as life changing with such uniformity that I believe them. And yet, two men in my life seem to draw a hard line against even discussing it with a PCP. One has accepted hearing aids (but has slept solo for decades even though married). One insists that he also doesn’t have a hearing problem. For both: my understanding is that this isn’t just an issue of their snoring being annoying but they face legit health risks from apnea and from being chronically deprived of sound sleep.
Josie P
Following with interest. My DH was just diagnosed with “mild to moderate” sleep apnea, but his dr said that the CPAP could cause him more sleep problems (?? – not sure what bc I wasn’t in that conversation). He also has delayed phase sleep disorder The solution so far since his diagnosis has been to sleep in separate rooms (which is great for me other than it being colder and now I need an extra blanket, but I would love for him to try to lose weight, etc. (Don’t worry, I haven’t brought that up with him!)
thoughts
He’s the perfect person to see a sleep specialist, and not have his PCP manage this.
Did his sleep specialist recommend doing nothing?!? If so, that is the wrong doctor.
I would also try to be there in the next appointment with your husband, asking questions. Time to see someone else.
Honestly, we all need a 2nd person at all of our doctor’s appointments if we have any serious medical problem. And sleep apnea is serious.
Anon
My dad got one in mid life (I want to say 50ish) after decades of really loud snoring. A doctor persuaded him. It made an immediate difference.
Anon
My dad just got hearing aids and it took him TWENTY YEARS to go to the doctor. Men are impossible.
anon
My dad SO CLEARLY NEEDS HEARING AIDS, and no amount of talking to him will convince him to do it. All of us have been trying for years. He’s 75, btw, so not sure why he’s threatened by needing them.
nuqotw
Spouse hopped right on it when the doctor who (probably mis)diagnosed him with a different sleep disorder became unreachable and did not refill the prescription spouse ostensibly needed to treat it. Spouse had to start fresh with a new (probably more competent) doctor who thought the diagnosis sounded wrong, thought sleep apnea was far more likely, and confirmed it with a sleep study.
Panda Bear
Agree on the mohair – I’m seeing it a lot more than usual this season. Makes me itch and sneeze.
Anonymous
Interesting. I find mohair dreamy soft and lux feeling. More sweaters for me.
Paula
I love the mohair and I LOVE Sezane.
Anonymous
For me it was feeling so tired. I had complained to my PCP and she told me my bloodwork was normal and to drink some coffee. I got a different doctor and she helped me get a sleep study. My apnea was considered mild, but having a Cpap h as been wonderful. I have a lot more energy and focus. There isn’t anything you can do when someone is being stubborn like that—both my parents wouldn’t see doctors outside an emergency room for many years. That’s emotional labor I refuse to take on again.
Anon
He had to see his own oxygen numbers on a smart watch. The at-home sleep test was an easier sell than in-hospital.
Anon
Tell me more about this. This may help with DH’s first sticking point in this front.
newAnon
not that poster, but my husband is about 6 mos into CPAP usage and wonders why it took so long.
he started with smart watch monitoring and then did the at home testing before getting a mild to moderate diagnosis. I don’t remember a ton about the testing, which shows how easy it seemed to be. I think he wore some wires on himself and maybe something under his nose for 1-2 nights? no noise and he slept normally (poorly) during that test.
the CPAP is much quieter and less disruptive than my husband was expecting, and he’s easily traveled with it without issues. we’re believers.
Anon
Can you tell me about the smart watch monitoring?
Anon
when the mask is good fit, it’s easy and well tolerated.
Anonymous
My doctor warned me that the at-home tests aren’t nearly as accurate. In fact, I paid to go to an out of network sleep specialist just because my PCP knew the specialist shared that perspective.
Anon
I have complicated sleep issues (and a CPAP contraindication!), and the at-home tests aren’t accurate enough for me. DH very obviously had sleep apnea and needed CPAP, and the at-home test was able to capture the obvious.
Anon
I love my CPAP.
I was beyond tired and didn’t like that my husband could never spend the entire night with me because of my snoring.
I did the at home sleep test and it was very easy. Just strapped some stuff on and went to bed like normal.
Anon
M husband uses a CPAP because he’s an intelligent adult who listened to his doctor. I don’t know how you help stupid or stubborn.
Trish
What a horrible, hateful comment. People who don’t want to go to the doctor have many reasons that are never stupidity or stubborness. Usually it is fear or denial and can be born of trauma and it deserves compassion and understanding.
thoughts
It can be.
But now being the matriarch of my extended family (at the ripe old age of 54… all the women blood related in my family older than me or of my generation are dead), I am sick and tired of trying to coax my brothers, cousins and living uncles to take care of their health. There is a certain mindset that tends to be more common in men for whatever genetic/hormonal/environmental/societal reasons that leads to the very common struggle many women know on this board of trying to convince the men we love to take care of themselves.
And I think it is related to the reason why all of my male relatives that inherited our tendency towards migraines went the ER when they had their first migraines, while none of the women in our family who get migraines (and get them more frequently) have ever visited an ER for pain.
For many (most?) women, health care and pain are part of our daily life/monthly cycle and are accepted as normal. There are good…. and bad things about that.
Many men…. are babies ;)
And need a kick in the butt.
I try the gentle coaxing, encouragement, managing their fears etc…. and it is a slow, painful process.
Samantha
Well put, Trish.
In addition, which of us has never been stupid or stubborn about something in our lives? We’re all human, we’re all emotional or blinded by our own prejudices and preconceptions. Stupid is an action, not a type of person.
Anon
The song “High Horse” comes to mind.
thoughts
My father didn’t have his issues addressed for decades, but that was sloppiness on the part of his PCP that never asked, and our ignorance of not knowing the risks.
Only once he was in a car accident with terrible injuries and almost died and was intubated and received a tracheostomy (!), which saved his life, did he realize that for the first time in his life he could sleep and breath better and improved. Because having the tracheostomy (literally…. a hole in your neck to breathe through….) “cured” his sleep apnea because it allowed incoming air to circumvent where the air blockage was taking place higher up in his throat.
He actually felt so much better he didn’t want them to close up his tracheostomy hole! Sorta… he was kind of joking.
But he improved and the tracheostomy was closed. And he started adjusting to CPAP. That process can take time, similar to figuring out the right hearing aid type/settings for your hearing loss. You sometimes have to try a lot of different masks to find the one that fits your face best, and different machine setting. And the only CPAP discussion groups/support groups (like this place!) can be useful for tips. And it is helpful to work with a good Sleep doctor/pulmonologist/CPAP expert/good CPAP supply company/great Pulmonary technicians to try different masks and figure out the right one for you. It takes time, patience, and some nights of fretful sleep. But for some folks it’s easy and they take to it right away. But most quit early, doctors are ignorant and don’t encourage/trouble shoot etc..
But it can save your life, prevent heart attacks and strokes, prevent early dementia depression, improve blood pressure and prevent pulmonary hypertension and so much more. And it can save your marriage/your partner’s sleep too!
Greensleeves
My husband started using a CPAP several years ago. He asked his PCP about a sleep study after I complained that I was sleeping poorly because he would regularly stop breathing during the night and then snort himself back into breathing and I couldn’t take it anymore. Multiple times per night I would wake up when he made noise, then still be awake the next time he stopped breathing and hold my breath until I heard him breathe again. He had snored for some time, but that wasn’t enough to make him go and it didn’t bother me most of the time. He was willing to go because of the impact on me and my concern about his health based on my direct observation that it was a bigger problem than just snoring. I’m not sure if that helps you, but good luck!
NYNY
My DH took nearly 2 years to get a sleep study after his PCP recommended one. He only did it because I witnessed him have a terrifying episode of apnea, where he had been sleeping, stopped breathing for what felt like a very long time, and then made a terrible gasping/choking sound and started breathing again. He has struggled with the CPAP, and I think he’s going to return it.
My understanding of his psychology on this and the other medical issues of middle age with which he is currently dealing is that he is horrified by the indignities of aging, and the interventions – meds & CPAP so far – force him to confront it daily. And he hates it. (I’m not excusing it, just have been working to understand why he whines so much!)
Anon
I use one and it felt like a major indignity! But once I openly shared that I had it – because I deal with things like that with humor – I was shocked at how many other people use one as well.
Trixie
Dental appliances work well for some people–if it is a milder apnea. They are less obtrusive and invasive.
Anonymous
My sleep specialist said the dental appliances are a rip-off FWIW.
Laura
My husband got one a couple years ago. His sleep study only showed very mild apnea, but the difference for me has been life-changing. If it was up to him he wouldn’t wear it because of the discomfort, but my sleep was so poor before because of his snoring that he saw how important it was to me for him to find a solution. I greatly appreciate it!
Ellen
My ex had sleep apnea and believe me, it was awful listening to him snort all night — much worse then snoring, which he did also. Once I was asleep and he woke up, he woke me up to tell me he was awake. I think I aged more then 5 years in the 5 years he was sleeping with me. Afterward, I got to learn how I could sleep better –ALONE– and even when I had a man over, I asked him to leave or go into the office bedroom to sleep after we had done the deed. I am over 40 now, and haven’t had a man over for about a year– and don’t miss it!!! Babeland has taken very good care of me and my lady garden in liew of a man slobbering all over the place down there and then leaving his sperm all over my 1,000 count Egyptian Cotton Sheets. No, I don’t miss any of that, thank you very much!
Anon
I know that there are flight simulators for pilots but are there good driving simulators for timid city and highway drivers? Or do you just need to go to a driving school and pay for more lessons? This is for an adult who technically can drive, but missed a lot of opprortunities due to COVID and then going to a residential college with no car, but is too afraid to drive much now (and could be so nervous as to be a danger to others by driving much slower than common speed or panicking).
Anon
I think you need a private driving instructor.
Ellen
I agree. I havent drove in the City b/c I don’t have a car, but I’ve got rusty when I am at home and often need coaching, tho NOT from my Dad, who is a real worry wart with me driving his Escalade SUV. I am careful tho and drive with Mom, so all is good.
Anon
Is there a reason they need to drive? If not, let sleeping dogs lie. We need more people walking, biking and taking transit.
anon
Being able to drive is a life skill, even if you’re primarily using other modes of transportation.
Anon 2.0
Agreed. I live in the Midwest and my life would be he$$ if I couldn’t drive or own a vehicle. I could walk to the grocery store and that is it. I wouldn’t be able to hold down a job as there is no bus service at my house. Even if I lived along a bus line, our buses are slow and never on time. Driving for the majority of the US at least (barring a few major cities) is absolutely a life skill.
Anon
I’m not able to drive reliably for medical reasons and am so, so glad I moved away from the midwest. It’s a whole society that just does not care about anyone who cannot drive.
Anon
It’s really not just the Midwest. Outside of a few major metro areas on the east coast, most of the US is very dependent on cars.
Anon
Hard disagree w/ 6:03. I know several people who don’t drive, and I live in a city, but it’s not where you describe.
Anon
Ok maybe there are some non-east coast cities where it’s also manageable without a car, but the key is cities. There are vast swathes of Oregon and Arizona and Pennsylvania and basically every other non-Midwest state where you need a car. And there are Midwest cities like Chicago where it’s easy to live car-free. Cars are not a Midwest thing.
Anon
Agreed. My father grew up in NYC and never learned to drive as a teen. He tried learning as an adult, but he’s uncoordinated and gives up at things pretty easily, so he never really learned. He did pass the test and get a license, but he never drove and eventually let the license lapse. Not only is it a huge imposition on my mom, who has to chauffeur him anywhere (and a future imposition on his kids if our mom passes away first), it’s also been a hindrance at work not to be able to travel around the local area easily for work meetings. And he’s an attorney, not a profession with an obvious need for driving.
Anonymous
Actually, as a litigator in a city with poor public transit and a massive metro area plus matters across the state, I absolutely need to drive. Of course there could be accommodations for a disability, but it would be tough and I presume most people would mold a different career in those circumstances.
Anon
I meant he wasn’t like a bus driver or a truck driver or something where it’s super obvious you can’t do it without driving. :) But yes, he was an attorney for the state government, so lots of need to travel within the state and driving is the best way to get places, since he was going to many small cities and rural areas without airports or even train service. He usually went with coworkers and sometimes they would hire drivers for him, but it definitely inconvenienced a lot of people.
Anon
Yes but even when I lived on the metro I needed to be able to compete gently drive to various places around the DMV. I had relatives who were too afraid of city driving to visit.
Anon
This is a weird take. Even when I lived less than a block from the Commuter Rail, I needed to drive to the grocery store, to visit my friends, or when visiting other cities. Unless you are in Manhattan, your friends and family are all in Manhattan, and you live a small life that never involves anywhere but Manhattan except for the occasional Acela trip, you need to drive.
Anon
This is patently not true. Lots of people can’t or don’t drive for all sorts of reasons.
Anon
And it impacts their lives in a negative manner.
Cb
Yeah, I can drive in the US but never got a UK license. In the last 12 years, it’s been annoying 2x? And we don’t live in a super central location with loads of public transport. Just requires some planning.
Appreciate lots and lots of locations in the US are very different, but there are people who can’t/don’t drive and seem to manage just fine.
Anon
I get plenty of exercise, don’t spend as much money and have a much deeper connection to the world around me than I did when going past it in a car. Other than perhaps not being able to easily impulse buy a 60 inch TV at Costco and schlep it home, I can’t think of any negative impact to my life.
Anon
Maybe if you have a driving spouse or parents but being at the mercy of Uber or friends is. It great for most of us. I live alone. My city isn’t set up for non- drivers. If I had a DWI, my working life would be over, as would a lot of my health care. For groceries, I’d be at food-desert quality boxed food. It would be possible but very rough.
Cat
@11:05, I can’t think of a way that not having a car negatively affects my life whatsoever. I can get almost anything delivered, can walk everywhere whether to work, friends, groceries, restaurants, medical care, or entertainment, and have easy access to local tr-nsit, Amtrak, and flights. It’s way cheaper to take the occasional $50 Uber to somewhere in the burbs that’s inconvenient than it is to purchase and maintain my own vehicle all year!
Anon
The self-centeredness is astonishing. Because you are all mobile, healthy, childless city dwellers, no one else ever needs to learn to drive. We didn’t say “own a car 24/7” – just “learn to drive.”
Cat
@12:54, there are a lot of people in this thread who can’t fathom why someone wouldn’t drive and how it must automatically mean they are negatively impacted. We’re just challenging that assumption.
FWIW, I have my license and can operate a vehicle should I choose to do so, for those of you who fear for my basic life skills…
Anon
I think there’s a huge difference between choosing not to drive and not knowing HOW to drive. I would be completely fine with my kids choosing a car-free lifestyle in a big city, but I would not be fine with them opting out of learning how to drive. Knowing how to drive is an important life skill that every adult needs to have, regardless of where they choose to live. People who cannot drive are likely to end up burdening those around them significantly.
Signed, my dad doesn’t know how to drive
Anon
+1 to what Cat said.
I do just fine with my life skills, which include a lot more than being able to drive a car. If the OP’s person decides it’s not worth it to her/him to drive, that’s fine, too.
Not driving, whether by choice or not != “being a burden”.
Anon
“I think there’s a huge difference between choosing not to drive and not knowing HOW to drive.”
Absolutely agree.
I admire people who choose to live a car-free lifestyle. I love cycling and I love being outside, and I love being in big cities where you can walk or take transit everywhere. I wish I could pull it off in my life, but public transit in my area absolutely sucks (it’s just buses, which rarely run on-schedule and which are unsafe – like, people routinely get stabbed) and we have several cyclist deaths per year because drivers don’t watch out for them – plus, trail systems aren’t great and don’t go where I need to go. Also, I have to travel within my state for my job – trips of a couple hundred miles, round trip, every other week or so – and the only way I can get where I need to go is by driving. So unless I move and get a different job, giving up my car is not feasible for me.
However, I believe driving is a life skill and even if people choose not to have a car, they should know how to operate one, and rent a car periodically to practice if necessary (like maybe rent a car instead of taking transit for a short trip). One of my friend’s mothers never learned to drive, and it was absolutely a difficulty for her after her husband and other relatives passed, and many of her old friends moved out of the neighborhood into retirement living, and it wasn’t as easy for her to get rides from people. Just getting to the doctor was a challenge. I have also seen situations where there was a non-911 emergency situation – like, someone cuts their hand and needs stitches; an ambulance is not necessary but the person can’t drive themselves to the ER – where not being able to drive would be a real problem. Everyone should learn to drive, even if they don’t plan to ever own a car.
Anon
Everybody should know how to drive.
anon
Even if such a simulator exists, I doubt it would help this person. The anxiety won’t show up unless it’s the real thing.
I was a very anxious driver as a teen/early college student, and only two things helped: having a very patient and unflappable driving instructor (love my mom to death but learning to drive with her was misery because she would SCREAM at the slightest thing and constantly backseat drive), and lots and lots of experience.
anon
I’d do immersion therapy, perhaps with a professional instructor, or alternatively with an understanding friend/partner who you trust to push you a bit and also to watch traffic/etc.
IMO, driving is a really location dependent skill. Driving downtown in a city avoiding parked cars and pedestrians is different from city highway driving with aggressive drivers and possible fast stops. And all that is different from rural driving without overhead lights with lots of stop sign intersections on fast roads. Figure out the driving you need to do and practice practice practice. Ideally in the car type/size you will be driving most frequently.
While I am not a nervous driver per se, we spent 2 weeks in northern Scotland and I felt like a new driver – between being on the other side of the road, a different car from what I usually drive, and fundamentally different road and traffic conventions. It was really really hard, not going to lie, staying in my itty-bitty lane and not feeling like I was going to swipe the mirror off the car whizzing by the other direction. But after 2 weeks of driving (really 1, since I switched back and forth with my partner), I was soooooo much more confident. That is what 1 week can do….
nuqotw
+1 to the location specific thing. To this day I hate driving in the city whose metro area I am in, despite living in the area for almost 15 years. I either drive to a public transport hub still in the suburbs and take public transit into the city, or take a taxi.
Emma
I also hate driving in the city and only do it when necessary. But I need to be able to drive through my city to get on the highway and access more rural areas, which is what I mostly use my car for. I second the suggestion for driving lessons with a driving instructor. They can start in a quiet residential area and build up to highway etc. And get a professional instructor (similar to the poster above, learning to drive with my mom was incredibly stressful because she would scream a lot. Once I got an instructor it was much better).
Anonymous
Given how good iracing is, I am certain there must be good driving simulators. But I agree private lessons are the answer.
And while I agree that if someone lives in Chicago or NYC or a European capital, or even Boston, perhaps driving is optional, but elsewhere,if this person is otherwise a capable human being, driving should be part of their repertoire. Why limit them so much from the outset? And why let their fear box them in? They can then choose not to drive, and that is a great choice. At this point, in most places, not driving is the province of the very rich or the very poor.
Anon
Agree — only a person who is in and from NYC can say they don’t drive without side eye. It’s one thing to Uber to a suburban office park if your car is in the shop but another to have your mom drive you or have at always Uber in much of the US (like you lost your license for DWI or have failed to adult). And if you are doing this for an interview or internship or student teaching, it makes you seem uncommitted as a new hire.
Anon
Getting around without a driving a car is as legitimate a means of getting around as any. Lots of people drive who shouldn’t and that makes the roads more dangerous, especially for those who don’t drive, but even for those who do. Whether it’s because of funds, a seizure disorder, environmental reasons, visual impairment or any other thing, people don’t drive for all sorts of reasons that aren’t “Failed to adult”.
If you saw me roll up on a bike or get off the bus, and then decided not to hire me because of how I got to the interview, frankly, it’s your loss. I’ve no desire to work for anyone that unimaginative, who can’t fathom that their way of doing a thing isn’t the only way.
Anon
Except: if you have to work past when it is dark, when it is raining, when there is snow or ice. People may assume you will call out or just will be unreliable, especially if you are younger.
A relative with CP uses a wheelchair and everyone understands why she lives and works on the Orange line. But if you are able-bodied and just don’t drive, I feel like that raises a flag that isn’t needed. It’s fine in a college town or The Netherlands but we don’t live in either place.
Anon
Rain gear and lights exist. Pannier bags exist. Snow and ice is no more a hindrance to me than to someone with a car. I’m typically the first one out checking on friends and neighbore after a storm because I can get where cars can’t. I miss a lot less work than colleagues who have to leave early or come in late to take their cars to the shop.
Look, you do what you want with your time and money, but don’t think for a second that someone’s life is any less rich just because they choose to not own or drive a car. A person will be reliable or not regardless of mode of transport.
Anon
That’s all great until you are sent to a work conference somewhere else. If you have a disability and can’t drive, the company should pay for an Uber or taxi. But someone who doesn’t even have a license and can’t rent a car?
How do you handle out of town weddings? Transporting kids around? Getting a big bag of cat litter or dog food home?
How do you handle life with kids? Often, the “virtuous” non drivers are simply off loading their driving to other people (coworkers who rent the car, friends who rent the car at a wedding, relatives who drive them around, and Amazon trucks who bring them things that aren’t easy to get home from the store.)
Anon
It’s really not a big deal – just a bit more/different planning. For transparency’s sake, I do have a driver’s license but do not have a car and I live in the suburbs of a small southern city.
Last work conference I rode my bike (free curbside parking, WOOT!) to the airport and got a bus pass in the larger destination city. It was a lot cheaper than renting a car and no biggie as far as planning went. Scoping out transit in a city ahead of time is easy, and a couple of apps, namely Moovit and Transloc are somewhat universal in the US, so they work in my city and wherever I’m going.
Dog food? 20 pounds fits in a pannier bag. A 40 pound bag is a pain in the butt, but the trailer works ok. I usually buy 20 at a time because it’s easier than hooking up the trailer. I’m lazy like that. Big and oddly shaped stuff isn’t a big deal unless I forget bungee cords. I like the idea of Urban Arrow or other bucket-bike, but I don’t think I’d use one enough to justify owning one.
Kids? Combination of trailer, co-pilot, longtail cargo until they can ride- ebikes make these a lot easier on the adult than they were before e-bikes became more commonplace. My local buses have free wifi and most of the time kids are on their devices as soon as they get on. They’re much better about using headphones than most adults, too. When they’re little, kids see riding the bus as an adventure. The TransLoc app is really great for minimizing the waiting around.
The few times I’ve taken an Uber/Lyft with friends, it sketched me out – I’m not a fan. I don’t care for Amazon’s business practices and prefer to shop local whenever possible. Even if I still had a car, I’d still get furniture type purchases delivered. Weirdly, the bike shops are one of the biggest challenges in this area. None of them are easy to get to on a bike and all have hours that aren’t conducive to an office type job. I wish one was open late!
I do probably look at the weather forecast a little more closely than you do. I have to make sure my lights are charged. I maybe plan my errands a little more carefully to minimize single-store trips (though I tried to do this when I had a car as well). I probably make some questionable fashion choices in the name of comfort. I’d say those differences are pretty trivial and not at all inconveniencing.
Route planning for a new-to-me place is probably the biggest challenge, simply because Google maps isn’t reliable for non-car routing. Googlel has tried to kill me many, many times. Ideally, especially if it’s someplace I will need to go on the regular, I try the route out early on a Sunday morning before doing it for real, but sometimes that’s not possible.
I make enough to purchase some decent quality (though used) gear that makes getting around more comfortable, so I’m not among the very poor, but I’m definitely not in the “very rich” group of non-drivers. I’m below the median income in my southeastern city. Going without a car is as much an economic decision as it is an environmental one.
Anonymous
@1:53 — Good for you. That does not sound like an appealing lifestyle to me but if it works for you, great. However, the OP is asking about how to get someone “able” to drive, which is different from choosing a car-free lifestyle. It is life-limiting to not be “able” to drive. One could probably get away with it where I live, though probably not doing the job I do, but instead of mapping out multi-stop trips, they would be limited to one-stop trips only, at least if buying things, because anything left on a bike is going to be stolen and the bike itself is likely to be stolen once every couple/few years.
Anon
I apparently live in a completely different reality than Anon at 9:33, because I know plenty of people who don’t have a car, or they share a car with a spouse. Many employers near me encourage people to bike or take transit to work and provide incentives for people to do so. It is WILD to me that this person is so insistent that not driving is “unprofessional” and that there’s no way to make life work without a car. I am not in an area where transit is that great, or cycling is that safe, and people still do it.
Anon at 9:33 – as a car owner who generally loves her car, I am here to tell you: it is very possible for people to live without a car. And people can still work late (which you seem to think is some kind of absolutely essential ability for people to have any kind of career – LOLOLOL at that) and get groceries home, etc. etc. You are living a pretty sheltered existence and should get out more. And also realize that many of us don’t give a flip what other people think is “professional.” If you want to kill yourself working, and re-engineer your life so that you can work work work to the exclusion of everything else in your life, and never do what you want in life because it’s “not professional”? Do you, but please do realize – that’s your stuff. And many of us make different choices that are just as valid as yours.
Anon
I don’t drive much anymore because of a disability. It’s extremely limiting. If you have the ability to drive, you should absolutely learn, even if you chose not to on a day to day basis. But if you judge for me not driving to an interview as not being an adult, that’s disability discrimination and illegal. I don’t drive precisely because I’m enough of an adult to access the risks to myself and others and not want to kill people when I can’t drive safely.
Anon
I agree that they should get and maintain their license if they can as well as the ability to drive. But so many traffic fatalities happen because people who really shouldn’t be driving drive anyway (people with unmedicated ADHD, people taking medications with a “do not operate heavy machinery” warning which includes a lot of anxiety meds, people who are sleep deprived, people with disabilities like TBI that affect spatial perception and reaction times). I wish we would reserve some of the side eye for the people who drove anyway, in order to perceived as more capable than they were, and then ended up hurting someone!
Anon
I know more than one person outside of NYC who do not drive and live their life just fine without side eye. I think it’s awesome and they don’t get any side eye from our crowd.
Cerulean
I think that’s great if it works for them. I also think that adults in the US should generally get their license if they’re able. You don’t have to drive just because you have your license, but it’s good to have in your back pocket for many reasons.
Cora
Yeah its good to have the option. I’m in NYC but sometimes you want to drive out of the city, or help a friend move, or drive on vacation etc.
Another +1 to the private lessons.
Anon
Barring disability, everyone should be able to drive. I know someone who let his drivers license expire since he lived in a big city. Guess who was unexpectedly sent on a business trip to a rural area? If he didn’t have a coworker that could drive there would’ve been professional repercussions.
What happens if you need to drive someone during a medical emergency? Is the person with a broken arm stuck paying hundreds of dollars for an ambulance? Is someone going to face permanent injury or death because an ambulance or uber couldn’t arrive in time?
Anon
This. I think most workplaces expect you to drive outside of NYC and knowing that an employee has a disability.
I do worry re people using edibles and other things like that driving (not to mention known side effects of medicines and just driving while tired), plus people who multitask behind the wheel. But still: it is a learnable skill for most people.
nuqotw
If this person is you, my sympathies, and yes, driving instructor.
If this person is not you, does this person need to drive right now and is this person asking you for help? If not, I’d leave it alone. The person is an adult, and unless they are already asking you for help, they can decide whether not driving is a problem and what they want to do about it.
Anonymous
My drivers Ed class in the late 90s had car simulators. They were really outdated and goofy even then and didn’t really serve a purpose. Im having fond memories of that whole experience now so thank you for reminding me of it. I do think an actual driving I will be more helpful.
Anon
This is a private driving instructor situation. The problem isn’t always anxiety and inexperience, but if it is, putting in a l lot of hours with a good driving instructor can help.
Anonymous
There is no substitute to getting on the road
Cb
I’m an academic with lots of international colleagues and I know loads of people who didn’t learn to drive until their 30s or 40s. It’s not now or never. It might be more daunting once they are older/their prefontal cortex is fully developed, but it’s not impossible.
It’s on my to do list to get my UK license (drove in the US but not here) and I assume I’ll need some lessons to cope with roundabouts but not loads.
Anonymous
Huh? This is in response to asking if there’s an effective stimulator for someone who is struggling with driving. No. There is not. If you want to get better at driving you need to get on the road.
Anonymous
I used a driving simulator in the late 90s in drivers Ed. It was very goofy and outdated even then. There were several of them in the basement of the school and it looked like the front seats of a car with a screen in front. We also had classroom instruction and got to drive in actual cars but I remember everyone thought the simulator was pretty useless.
Anonymous
Simulators have changed dramatically since then and might be a pretty good first entry for someone with anxiety. But I still think the road has to be the real training.
Anon
A friend got her license during COVID when she left NYC. She took extra road lessons, above the state required minimum, because of her anxiety.
Anon
Good for her. I had more mandatory training to drive a forklift than a car. Wish more people would do so.
Anonymous
I just had an initial consultation for hypnotherapy to help me address my fear of driving on freeways (I start having panic attacks). I haven’t driven on a freeway for probably four years – I work from home, take Uber when I need to go on a freeway, and rely on my husband, but it is still limiting and I’m looking forward to having this freedom back if it works. Fingers crossed!
Anonymous
I’m zapped. I worked too much, traveled too much, had too many big/bad/overwhelming things happen this year. Divorce, shocking loss of a close relative, major health issues for two early 40s close friends, large client suddenly filed for bankruptcy and now my company’s past financials may be at risk, and more.
I feel so tapped out. Depleted. Like I haven’t gotten a break. Every week I try to set aside time off work, something bad has happened (loved one illness, car accident, you name it.) I’m single and no kids. I have no empathy left, when new bad things happen I show up to help but can’t do much more than listen. I feel numb. I don’t know if any of you internet strangers have suggestions. I have never found telling people what’s going on in my life to help- but I know something needs to change.
Anon
Hugs, and I you are religious, I will pray for you. That is just awful.
Anonymous
That sounds really tough. Hang in there. I’m glad you’re trying to take time off, even if it hasn’t worked out so far. I suggest you keep trying – eventually your luck will turn and some of your time off will actually be time off. I also suggest turning off your phone (or putting it into a restricted mode) an hour or two before bed. Sometimes you don’t need to know about a crisis in the exact moment it happens.
anon
I’m going through a period of caregiving for ailing mom, while juggling work and am in a similar zapped place as you. Some things I am doing that are somewhat helping:
– walking more. I specifically am either walking outside somewhere pretty or on a treadmill , following a walking workout via peloton app. Those are helping me disconnect far more than just a general listening to music or podcast.
– trying to get a weekly moment in nature, even just 15 minutes to look at something pretty. This has included anything from quick stop at beach just standing there looking at waves to a quick stroll through flowers at local garden center.
– all of my tv/media has to be uplifting/funny in some way.. no true crime, minimal news and politics
– doing some small art or craft projects, things that i can do 15-30 min at a time, and move toward completion: for me.. watercolor, photography, puzzles
thoughts
This is all really great advice.
Very similar things helped me during difficult times.
Good luck with your Mom. Sorry to hear about your hard times.
I hope things improve for both of you.
Coach Laura
This is what I was planning on writing. Walking in nature is the best for me, daily, but if you are not near a park, walking as meditation in the city is good too. Getting out in nature on Saturday and Sunday at midday now that it’s fall. (Even if you have to work, you can take 15-30 minutes in the daylight). Arts and crafts are good, photography is what I’ve been doing.
Five minute meditations. Peloton has some but I know there are free apps too.
Yoga chair stretches. You can google to find office chair yoga. Doesn’t have to take 10 minutes – maybe just three minutes two or three times a day. Similar to meditation, this can replace the time a lot of us spend scrolling or staring into space (not saying that you shouldn’t scroll, just that you can replace scrolling with yoga).
I hope things get better for you.
NW Islander
I see you. What worked for me: constantly asking myself “what is one healthy choice that I can make now?” Sometimes it was taking a walk outside. Sometimes it was a 20 minute stretch session, or a shower. A lot of times it was getting into bed.
The year after my mom died, in my home, I gave myself permission to sleep as much as I wanted. This meant I was often in bed at 6pm, which was only possible because I was single with no kids like you. I would often open a book but was so drained that I would fall asleep anyway. Better to rest than be awake and ruminating, drinking, stress eating, etc. It worked for me. Good luck<3
Anonymous
I’m so sorry. If you can find 30 min of time to walk each day, try it. It won’t actually fix anything but can help you feel a little stress release. A warm soak in a tub in the evening also helps me when everything awful is hitting. Also try not to think of things as a list (I know it’s hard). I spent one year focused on “I lost my job, got cancer, dog got cancer and died, I ended up in new job I hate” before I realized my outlook wasn’t helping me. You can’t change circumstances, but not running the narrative as a list can shift you to a better perspective. Try to stay in the here and now and what may be better ahead as much as you can. Again, I know much was said than done.
Anonymous
Sending you hugs! Sounds to me like A LOT of self-care is needed. LIttle things helped me get through rough patches in my life- daily walks outside, doing my hobby, treating myself to favorite coffee, playing with the dog, etc- sounds silly but it really worked for me. Big vacations, finding a new job, etc are all great but they take time to execute and you need band aids now. Also, I found that allowing myself to not show up for all the crises in life that others are experiencing was critical. It’s hard to help others when you are depleted. Put your own oxygen mask on first.
Anon5
I have had a similarly bad year–one of my best friends unexpectedly passed, my mom had cancer, and I went through a brutal breakup. I posted about it a few months back, and all the comments provided similar great advice as to what you have here–with the added urging to try medication. I ended up starting an SNRI based on those responses and it has been extremely helpful. Things are still hard but I no longer feel as helpless or overwhelmed as I used to. I still sleep a lot, and don’t have the pep in my step that I usually do, but it is getting better day by day. My thoughts are with you–no feeling is ever the final one.
Anon
Could you consider getting a pet? It would add more to your plate but the snuggles might be worth it! Or volunteer to take a friend’s dog for a walk etc. Hang in there – hope you can find time to take care of yourself!
Fullyfunctional
I was going to suggest a pet. I don’t think I would have survived my last 3 years without my dog.
Anon
8+ hour drive Tobin-laws iver Thanksgiving. Will be staying at hotel. Husband now wants to bring 100+ pound dog with us. That is crazy talk, no? Like dog won’t be happy and this is not the way to deal with your weird guilt about boarding her.
Anon
I don’t think it’s crazy to bring your dog with you – my family has done multi-day road trips with our dogs – but the hotel might not like it.
Anon
How much stopping would that add to a long car trip in holiday traffic?
Cat
what are you going to do with the dog all weekend? Assuming you’d plan to have it with you amid TG family & guests, do consider that not everyone would be thrilled about having a giant dog around all day. You love your pet but not everyone likes them.
Anonymous
Yes this is dumb
Anon
My in-laws are hoarders. I’m not sure they are ever thrilled to have us in their house much less with a giant dog running through their piles and tunnels. BUT MAYBE this would be an opportunity if Sweetums knocks it all down. Kidding. Kind of.
joan wilder
“weird guilt” is a little unkind. If your husband has worries (founded or unfounded) about boarding the dog, then that is a need that it would be better to discuss and look at options, instead of just deciding the need isn’t valid to you, and thus doesn’t count. I also worry about boarding my guy, and I’d be really upset if my SO talked about my concern that way. If he really is not the kind of dog who would like a road trip, I’d look next at in home sitters or agree to do a test overnight at a boarding facility that he gets the lead on selecting.
Anon
+1.
Anon
We do an annual 15 hour (one way) road trip to see family for the holidays and always bring our 95 lb dog along. However, our vehicle configuration works for this, we stay with said family, and they also have large dogs themselves. All the beasts get along and there is a spare crate ours can use in case the humans go for an outing, but there is usually someone there at any given time. I would not take a dog on such a trip and leave it unattended in a hotel room.
Anon
Last sentence 1000%. Especially if your dog is a barker.
Anon
I think the main question is whether your in laws are dog people and if their house is suited for the dog. If yes, bring the dog, if no, don’t. You can’t leave the dog at the hotel alone, so it really depends on whether dog will do well at their house.
Emma
Yeah my dog would be ok on a road trip (with breaks every 2 hours) but we don’t leave him alone in a hotel room ever because he tends to bark/howl in unfamiliar locations, and most dog-friendly hotels ask you not to leave the dog alone anyway. So I would only do it if you can bring the dog to your in-laws for the actual festivities. If not, or if your dog is carsick or otherwise not suited to a long trip, can you find a good boarding alternative? Our dog was miserable at the kennel-style boarding place but we found an at home boarder and he loves it there, we joke that it’s like summer camp for him.
Anon
Our dog is a rescue. He doesn’t love being boarded but is too big to be welcome in most hotels or relatives houses. He barks and howels. He is not cat friendly. Is does not like many dogs. He is does better boarding because he is in neutral turf vs his turf . He would terrify most pet sitters. I figure: he was a difficult rescue but his life on the whole is pretty good. Never taking a vacation would be too high a price of admission though and we can’t afford our own beach house.
Anonymous
100% this.
Anon
We take our dog on long drives all the time, but what matters is the destination. Are the ILs dog people and will your dog do well around others for the weekend? If not, boarding is the solution, but I highly recommend finding a good place to board that your dog likes. We use specific people that do it for a living in their homes that our dog loves, not a facility. Those are awful and I’d object too.
Anonie
Would it work better to leave her at the house and have a dog sitter come 2-3 times a day to feed and walk her?
pugsnbourbon
I drove our very old dog across several states last year when we moved. Wasn’t the most fun I’ve ever had, but we survived. We spent a night in a pet-friendly hotel and I think paid a $50 fee for her.
If it makes your husband feel any better, my sisters board their dogs when they travel and their dogs have a blast. t
Anonymous
Yes, it is crazy. Bringing the dog along will be stressful for you, the hosts, and the dog. If he is unwilling to board the dog you can offer to stay home while he visits his parents alone. That should bring him around.
I have a large rescue dog who absolutely detests the perfectly fine kennel we use simply because it isn’t her home and her family isn’t there. What she doesn’t understand, because she is a dog, is that she would hate coming along on vacation even more, and that a couple weeks at the kennel each year plus a wonderful loving home the rest of the year is infinitely preferable to the garbage dump (yes, a literal garbage dump) where she was living before she was rescued. It’s a dog. As long as the kennel is safe and humane, board the dog with zero guilt.
Anonymous
I don’t think it’s weird at all. We bring our dog on a lot of trips. If he’s not spending time at in-laws, I’d go with a pet-friendly VRBO over a hotel though just in case he barks or howls while you’re out. Some of our best trips have involved having the dog with us. He loves seeing new things.
Anon
I agree you need to be sensitive to the preferences of your hosts and other guests, but before we had kids we took our dog with us almost every time we traveled including multi-day road trips and international plane trips. Our dog preferred it to being left at home. But she has weird attachment issues.
takeout coffee
This is so dependent on the dog’s temperament in the car, your in-laws home/neighborhood/affinity to dogs, and how big your vehicle is.
We’ve had four dogs in our marriage. Two were/are great car riders. We moved with the one across the country and it was not any kind of extra hassle. He took breaks when we took breaks. Very easy. There are certain big chains that are dog friendly without weight limits. I would take that dog and one of the others on a 8+ hour drive, no problem.
The other two thought were horrible car riders, and really struggled to settle down. I absolutely would not have taken those two on an optional 8+ hr drive.
The other thing to consider is your in-laws house, whether they would welcome a dog, and whether they have a very good neighborhood/yard for the dog.
FWIW, My in-laws have had well trained and behaved Rottweilers their whole life (one at a time) and they always traveled with them. I think the always taking them with is a little bit of a PITA, but they enjoy it and don’t have too many issues (or at least the adapt well around them).
Shark black friday sale?
does anyone remember shark’s black friday sale last year? trying to decide if i should by the styler during the sephora sale or just wait a few weeks…thanks!!
Anon
Does Ninja also do Black Friday sales? Have my eye on one of their blender systems.
Anonymous
amazon often has shark hair stuff on sale in their prime day sales
H13
I have one glorious day alone in NYC next week. I will be in the city by around 8am. Lived there in my 20s but haven’t been back for fun in a while. Suggestions for how to spend the day? What would you do/eat/etc?
Anon
If it’s Monday, Central Park will have the post Marathon event.
H13
It’s a Friday. Otherwise that would have been perfect!
Anonie
The new development around the High Line and Little Island and the piers is pretty cool, especially on a beautiful sunny day, looking over the water. Also I’d suppose the stores on 5th Ave will have holiday decorations going up by now, so that would be fun to walk and see if you’re into that.
Anon
And at the south end of the high line is the “new” Whitney (if the last time you were in the city, the Whitney was still on the UES).
NYNY
I clearly need to take a day off to do fun things, because I have so many ideas! Here’s an itinerary:
– Go to Essex Market and wander around the stalls
– Have breakfast at Shopsin’s in the Essex Market or walk over to Russ & Daughters cafe on Orchard Street for a bagel & salmon
– Go the the New Museum to see the Judy Chicago exhibit
– Wander around Nolita to window shop (or shop shop)
– Eat a late lunch and people watch at Balthazar or Jack’s Wife Freda
– Head either west to Film Forum or east to Metrograph to catch a revival film
H13
This is perfect – thank you!
C3
New Zealand itinerary recommendations or things that are definitely worth doing? We are going for 10 days at the end of the month. We had planned to do the South Island, but it seems like we will do nothing but drive, and that the late spring weather will make our travel more difficult, and Milford Sound could be very foggy, so we are reconsidering doing only the North island. We are outsidey but not outdoorsy, open to light hiking and walks, but not looking to spend time doing strenuous hiking. We are into culture and history and wine but avoid overly touristy spots. We are not adrenaline seekers, DH is not a lord of the rings person so we aren’t planning to do any of the hobbit things. TIA!
joan wilder
I spent one week only on the North Island and it was lovely and magical. [I had been once before to both islands as a kid so that helped narrow things down]. Itinerary was Waiheke Island (straight to ferry from airport–totally doable) for a few nights, drive to Lake Taupo stopping at Waitomo cave on way, Lake Taupo , Rotorua, and some stopping on drive back to Auckland.
anonshmanon
This is a nice itinerary for 10 days. Rotorua is a must. If you are staying in Auckland a little, the Waitakere ranges just west of the city have lots of wonderful hikes that are usually moderate. I like the Auckland art museum. Waiheke island is known for wineries and a cute place to hang out. Tiritiri Maitangi island has tons of native birds and plants, and good guided tours. Both islands can be reached by ferry from Auckland, although Tiritiri can be a choppy ride depending on weather.
Something I would spring for again is the glowworm kayak tour – I did the one in Tauranga, which is sort of on the way to Rotorua. If you make it all the way to Wellington, I would do the guided tour after dark in Zealandia Wildlife sanctuary. If you decide to go a little bit north of Auckland, I would be sure to visit the Waitangi treaty grounds, an important historical site. Up there are also wonderful paddling opportunities, and kauri tree hikes. Definitely don’t miss a good kauri tree hike, there are various ones across the island.
Anon
Either island is lovely. We liked Lake Wanaka as a base for sightseeing, you could also try Lake Tekapo. Or you could base yourself in Nelson or Kaikoura. Depends on your interests.
Runcible Spoon
In late 2019, spent one week on both the North and South Island, doing quick hits on three locations, and flying on Air New Zealand in between spots. (The domestic fares are quite affordable.) I arrived in Auckland, and immediately departed for Rotorua in a pre-arranged shared airport shuttle ride; In Rotorua, I stayed at a historic (“heritage”) hotel, and soaked in a municipal hot-springs fed pool, toured a historic garden, shoped for greenstone earrings, and attended a touristy Maori show and dinner; then I flew to Queenstown and joined a “flightseeing” excursion to the Milford Sound, which cut the 8-hour bus ride down to a short flight to an airstrip with 7 other passengers, and then a 2-hour minivan drive to the Milford Sound. Then we joined others on a public ferry that goes out and comes back on the sound viewing the fjords and wildlife. In Queenstown, I indulged in fairly inexpensive game steaks at a Rhodesian grill restaurant. (For some reason, Southern African restaurants abound in New Zealand.) Finally, I flew to Napier, and took an Art Deco architecture driving tour, visited the National Aquarium and pre-arranged a “close encounter” with the penguins (i.e., feeding them by hand), and shopped for Manuka honey and chocolates. I arranged everything myself over the Internet, hotel reservations, transfers, and the like. I had a blast!
Anon
On the north island I really liked Waiheke Island. I think there are also different wine/bike tours you can do elsewhere in the north, Cathedral Cove is a nice walk (and there is a hot water beach nearby which is fun), and the glowworm caves are popular.
ProfP
Favorite place was probably Kaikoura – just stunning scenery and nice wineries (even though I’m not really interested in wine). Close second was White Island, but I think you can’t visit any more since the volcano erupted and killed people. Rotorua is fun but touristy. I enjoyed taking an outdoor mud bath at the hot springs. We drove along the east coast of South Island, then flew Christchurch-Rotorua and ended in Auckland to go home. That worked well to avoid backtracking and driving more than necessary.
DC Pandas
I spent a whole week in Auckland and greatly enjoyed it. Here are some cultural and light-outdoorsy highlights.
-Auckland art gallery
-Dominion Rd by Eden park for great food (https://www.thedenizen.co.nz/gastronomy/where-to-eat-drink-dominion-road-auckland/)
-Waiheke Island wine tasting, and hike around the northern tip after you’ve been dropped off by ferry
-Rangitoto hike and stop to view historic bachs
-New Zealand Maritime Museum
-Auckland War Memorial Museum
Anonymous
I’m planning a one month trip to NZ to celebrate my 50’s doing one of the great hikes. Right now I’m just starting the research trying to decide which month could be better (March or Nov trying to avoid the high season in summer maybe?) Then I would really apreciate any advise to start with the organization. Really into hike but no an adrenaline junkie.
I am super used to travel in my own and I have done in the past similar trips like one month in Patagonia for my 40’s and I love to do all the planning and so on. I am happy, for example, to use internal flights or transfers to cut time more than expending money in fancy hotels (But finishing in a winery area in a cute one sounds good to relax).
Any advise would be more than wellcome, I’m a bit overwhelmed right now with everything I need to look at for organizing it.
Runcible Spoon
The weather in August was lovely and Spring-like, and NZ didn’t seem crazy crowded at all. Hawk’s Bay has nice wineries, I understand, although I did not do any wine tours. You could make Napier your base in that region, as there are plenty of attractions there. Air NZ was super easy for domestic flights (and sort of freaked me out a little at first with the lack of metal detectors and ID checks before boarding, a throwback to how things were in the United States in the before times). I was traveling solo and stayed in charming hotels. There aren’t a lot of international hotel brands in NZ. Enjoy!
Anonymous
Thanks, probably I would ask again when I have done a bit more of planning and research.
Anon
I feel like talk around ADHD has increased so much where there are comments here almost every day that if you have an issue with distraction or a hyperinterest in something, you could have it, or if you list any any of 10 symptoms in your kid, they could have it. ADHD has been recognized for decades now – why only recently is it being discussed SO much for both adults and kids? It’s simply can’t be the case that every adult with some issues concentrating “could” have ADHD. Is this social media awareness gone too far?
Anon
IDK but it used to be a thing with an official DX for destructive hyperactive boys who just needed more discipline, redshirting, or recess. Now people acknowledge that distracted ADD is a thing and it is also a thing for girls and it doesn’t always get better with age, especially with being tethered to devices all the time. I think it is real.
Anonymous
I think it is that and that the symptoms of ADHD keep creeping to cover nearly very person.
Anon
I think that’s what it feels like – symptom creep to cover almost everything.
Anon
Yes, you might have symptoms but does it interfere greatly with participating in school or work? It is often a matter of degree. I have one kid with it who is off the charts when tested (also a girl) and she is beyond friend just holding it together each day. I’m not like that. She is truly impaired by her limitations.
Anonymous
Short answer: yes this.
Long answer: I have a friend who has ADHD. I really love her, but sometimes the stuff she shares with hashtag ADHD makes me think “that’s not ADHD: we just live in a really complex, fast-paced society and you are a bit undisciplined AND your nervous system is probably completely overwhelmed.” I think the diagnosis can be helpful for some people but for the vast majority they’re either unnecessarily medicated, or have tons of guilt over something that’s not really their fault, or both.
Anon
I find it hard to believe that vast numbers of people are unnecessarily medicated for ADHD when there are so many obstacles to diagnosis and treatment.
Anonymous
TikTok
Anon
A lot of diagnoses in women were missed and there’s some catch up diagnosing happening. Past COVID infection can exacerbate ADHD, so a lot of people who were getting by without diagnosis or treatment suddenly aren’t getting by anymore.
Anon
It is often exacerbated by menopause. I have been discussing this with my therapist. I really don’t know how me suggesting that my overwhelm could be ADHD impacts any one who has gone to a doctor and been diagnosed at all. It really isn’t your business if I self-dx.
Anonymous
Yes. It’s harmful to people who actually have ADHD because it delegitimizes the very real challenges they face. Sort of like how “emotional support animals” have made life more difficult for people with actual service dogs that are trained to perform a specific task.
Anonymous
100% that it delegitimizes the impact of ADHD on people who truly have ADHD. Both my husband and son have ADHD and it is so hard to see how they (particularly my husband) struggle with “normal” responsibilities. Many people have no idea that it is more than just having a hard time paying attention (both in range of symptoms and depth of impact).
Anon
I am pretty confident I don’t have ADHD but having to divide my attention among email, texts, slack, Remind, a Group Me, and calls on 2 phones is enough to make me feel that all of my energy goes to task switching and not getting off track vs actually doing work. Add in two teens and all the family stuff and I’m just happy nothing blows up each day and that is a lower bar than when I started working. It takes much more energy to do less and I hate that.
anon
Boy, isn’t this the truth. I’m exhausted all the time, and I truly think it’s because of the onslaught of information to process and do something with. I do not know how to fix this.
Anon
+1 I think it’s exacerbated by modern society. In caveman days you faced very different consequences from being distracted. And in the modern world we have SO much information/tech at our fingertips. It’s enough to exhaust almost anyone.
Anonymous
Women are very underdiagnosed for ADHD and ASD, they’re viewed as little boy afflictions, but that simply isn’t true. Women have been silently suffering trying to hold it together and appear neurotypical. I’m glad you haven’t had this struggle
Anon
I have a daughter with ASD and ADHD and because she was smart and did well in school and was compliant, she slipped through until age 11. There are not a lot of services for her but she will need a lot of help to go to college and live independently and interview for and hold a job. OT, therapy, psychiatry are hard to find and most autism groups are not for a kid who could academically go to college but struggles with autistic burnout and anxiety.
Anonymous
I was in my 20s before I was diagnosed. There are zero supports for women with genius IQs that can’t hold a conversation if their life depended on it. On paper I’m very impressive with my academic and work accomplishments, but IRL I can’t do all that much
Anne-on
This. I was ‘handling’ my ADHD just fine (with a side of depression and anxiety from all of my coping mechanisms) but it got monumentally worse when I had a kid with health issues and wasn’t sleeping much. I would have LOVED to have been diagnosed and offered supports (you do know that support doesn’t start and end at medication, right?) as a kid vs. being constantly yelled at and belittled for ‘not trying hard enough’ or ‘being lazy’ or ‘being distracted’ when I was experiencing classic ADHD symptoms.
Anon
Some ADHD symptoms overlap with symptoms of perimenopause, and I have wondered if some of the women here posting about possible ADHD are over 40 and need to talk to their doctor about perimenopause treatment options. Lack of ability to focus, short-term memory problems, and trouble multitasking are ADHD symptoms but also have happened to me as I’ve moved farther into peri. Menopause can also worsen ADHD symptoms in women who have it, so it may be that later in life, women become more aware of things that have always been kind of a problem, but were surmountable before hormonal changes.
Anonymous
It’s a combo. I have a kid who is formally diagnosed and it’s just…so clear. I have other kids and know LOTs of kids.
I think separately, technology has both made people hyper aware AND created attention issues in adults (me!). Is the fact that I can’t stop scrolling adhd? No, but sometimes it sure feels like it. It isn’t anything like my kid, however. She gets “stuck” on things- good and bad.
Anonymous
I think two things are going on. First, there is more awareness that ADHD affects girls as well as boisterous boys. This is a good thing for girls with legitimate ADHD who are struggling in silence. Second, mental health diagnoses have become fashionable. This is a bad thing because it trivializes actual mental health disorders and diverts resources away from the people who actually need them. Waiting lists for assessments and therapy are miles long because of all the wealthy people who think therapy is a necessary form of self-care.
anon
I’m guessing the overlap of high-achieving people and some form of neurodivergence is high, aka over represented on this board. I’d also guess that a lot of jobs (e.g., lawyer, c-suite) are ones that compliment ADHD tendencies – working under pressure from a firehose, new special interest constantly. (I’ve been in high level management meetings where everyone is making their own fidget toys out of any available materials.) It’s coming up now because now is the time where many children are being diagnosed, and therefore parents are realizing the same thing. This is the same as the boom in ASD in Silicone Valley about 20 years ago.
anon
I’m in my 40s and have recently realized that many of (what I thought were) my ride-or-die friendships are stagnating. It is nearly impossible to get people together, and when we do, I find that I’m not enjoying the conversation or company as much. Nobody’s doing anything wrong, but I’m finding some conversational topics hard to be a part of, for a variety of reasons. These are good people and I care about them, but I’m not going out of my way to connect. And it’s kind of sad. It’s fun to have a friend group!
I don’t feel especially lonely right now: I have my DH and family members that I’m close to. I have a full-time job that keeps me very busy and intellectually stimulated. (Perhaps relevantly, in this friend group, I’m the only person who works full time, and I often find that I can’t relate to the amount of time they have to do things like go to an Orange Theory class at 9 a.m. or coach their kids’ summer swim team that meets during the work day.) I also am part of some volunteer groups at work and church. I am an extroverted introvert, and I feel peopled out by the time the weekend rolls around.
But I worry that maybe all this means I’m not a very good friend and that I’m going to be lonely when life slows down. My mom didn’t do a great job maintaining friendships in her 40s and 50s, and now that she’s near 70, she doesn’t have any close friends, just acquaintances. That doesn’t seem great, either.
Is this normal? Should I be doing more with the OG friend group? I initially started pulling back because I was tired of organizing plans, only for them to fall through because of Reasons. And when they finally WOULD happen, I would leave our gatherings feeling crappy about something, like my parenting skills or my work commitments or the fact that I’m struggling with perimenopause while they’re breezing through. Not that my friends were ever saying these things directly, but there’s a pretty clear contrast in lifestyles that are unlikely to change. And, I’m human enough to admit that I feel envious of them sometimes, and it’s easier to avoid those situations than to keep putting myself through that.
For real, more experienced ‘rettes: how in the world do you maintain friendships when you’re busy with life and in the thick of lots of big emotional changes? Because something in me has shifted, and I’m feeling way less tolerant of people who don’t get me.
Anon
I empathise. My ride or die friend couldn’t be bothered to visit me when I was laid up last year. She lives 5 min away but was too busy with her big job. I can’t feel the same about her after that.
Anon
Me too. I had a baby 2 months ago, and someone I thought was a ride or die hasn’t come to meet her. It’s really making me reevaluate our friendship and is brining up memories of some other times that it has been really one sided.
Can you work on making friends who have a similar lifestyle? I can’t imagine not having any friends who worked full time since working is such a big part of my life. I wouldn’t get rid of the OG friends, but pick more superficial conversation topics for now and discuss work with people in a similar situation.
anon
I don’t have wisdom to impact, just commiseration, I feel a lot of the same things. For now, I continue to see the people that seek me out, but I’m letting the others fizzle, friendships evolve, hopefully we’ll make new friends!
Anonymous
I think it’s totally normal. When you are in college or all having kids at the same time you naturally have a lot in common. As you age lifestyles diverge and it’s harder and harder to have things in common. Plus you only have so many hours if you work full time. I don’t have a good solution unfortunately.
Anonymous
I can’t imagine being the only person employed full-time in my core friend group. You lead a very, very different life than they do! We talk about outgrowing friendships on here, often in the context of college friendships not making it through the baby years, but this can happen, too. Let these friends fade; if you don’t feel better for having hung out with them, they aren’t the right kind of friends anyway.
a
This. I couldn’t imagine this either – our lives would be too different, and as my work is both important to me and impacts the rest of my life, I think it would be hard to feel truly understood and supported. I just say this as someone in a similar stage who would also feel as you do.
Is there one person from the group who you feel might be a good friend one-on-one? Or is there someone else outside this group you’ve clicked with that you could put more effort into a relationship with? I think that social media has made “group friends” seem important (and it triple sucks to see a group do something without you via sm) but I think I get the most support from individual friends. For me, I find I can maintain a good connection with 2-3 friends at a level where I think be a good friend and receive their friendship as well.
Also, this is a big reason I love throwing parties. I can see these sorts of friend-acquaintances on my own turf, if they actually make it, but I’m inviting enough others so it’s not a huge deal if they all flake.
No Face
I love having different categories of friends. OG friends are sacred because there is nothing like knowing someone for 20+ years, even if our lives are nothing alike.
I also have lawyer friends, neighborhood acquaintances, my kids’ friends’ parents who I am turning into friends, church friends. All very different types of connection. The hard part is seeing everyone.
Sunshine
This is me too. My childhood BFF and I have been friends for 40 years. At this life stage, we have absolutely nothing in common, but we still make an effort to catch up every 8-12 weeks because we feel almost like sisters. But I text constantly throughout the day with one of my coworkers who has become an amazing friend and a woman I’ve been friends with for 15 years. Interestingly, none of my friends are friends with each other. I have a lot of one-off friends from different life stages and I keep up with them at different levels depending on how much we have in common to chat about now. For the ones with whom I don’t have much life overlap right now, I remember we became friends for a reason and hope our lives criss-cross more in the future.
Anonie
I honestly think social media and regular media cause friendships to be overrated. If they fulfill you and feed your soul, great! But I don’t think it’s universally true that everyone NEEDS a close group of friends. If you don’t feel lonely without them, and in fact the friends in question are a net negative on your life, do you! Don’t worry about what you “should” do.
Regarding feeling lonely later in life when it slows down, do you know if your mom wishes she had closer friends? I find a lot of older people are happy to live quieter lives, and for some that may mean being alone at home most of the time, or with a spouse or pet. My vision for my life in my 70s is to spend lots of time with my grandchildren and family, I’m not too worried about having lots of girlfriends, but if I felt I needed some, I think there are outlets for that, like churches, political volunteering, neighborhood orgs, etc. Many organizations are filled with retirees looking for a social outlet and a way to use their time – for people who want that! Again, plenty don’t and are quite happy living a quiet life at home. The key is to tune into what works for you and do that, not let third parties dictate what you should want.
Anonymous
It’s all great until you don’t have grandkids. Don’t rely on assuming your kids will have kids, and young, to fill your emotional cup.
anon
OP here, and exactly what I said below. I don’t think that’s something to count on.
anon
My mom does regret not having closer friendships. I also saw firsthand how she de-prioritized them, or perhaps some of those friendships ran their course after all the kids grew up. My vision for life is to have lots of time with my DH, our kids, and their families. Hobbies and some volunteer work. But of course, there is no guarantee that my kids will have kids, my spouse could die before me, etc.. It seems like friendship is important in that context.
Anon
Don’t count on grandkids. My parents have three kids, but only one of us had kids and we all live in different cities far away from each other (one of us is in the same metro area as our parents, but on the other side of town). They’re now in their mid to late 70s and spend most of their time with a set of dear friends that were parents of our friends. I’m so glad that they all take care of each other and bring joy to each other’s lives. I’d love to live closer, but am in a field where that’s simply not possible.
anon
My MIL is like your mom in that she’s in her early 70s and doesn’t have any close friends; her only close friend was a neighbor but they moved to be closer to grandkids. I can’t tell if she’s upset about it – she does comment sometimes that it would be nice to have someone to get lunch with, go on walks with, etc. But she’s very close to her three siblings, all of whom are within 2 hour driving distance or less, so I think that fills her social cup some, as well as time with her three grandkids. I agree about not assuming one will have grandkids, or ones that will come while you’re still alive. I’m about your age and basically do not have any friends I see regularly anymore because we had to move for DH’s job. I don’t know what will happen when I’m in my 70s; I do know that I’ve always been very happy being in my own company and I doubt that I’ll have or want a busy social life since I have never wanted that. But I do hope to have a few good friends still around, so I can see your point.
Anon
Something jumped out at me: you’re the only full time employee friend; your friends are doing Orange Theory at 9 am (so it’s not like they are SAHMs to four under four); yet, it’s hard for the group to get together.
Are they all doing their social stuff during the school day? Is that part of the problem? Do you have the flexibility or PTO to occasionally take a morning off from work that can be a girls brunch?
anon
I’m not sure, it’s only one person that goes to OTF. We all have kids in high school and middle school, and two of us still have elementary-aged kids. Two of the women work very part time with seemingly unending levels of flexibility. One works more than that, but is on school hours and has summers off / is able to leave work right at 3:00. if anything, it’s kid activities and sports tournaments that have gotten in the way of more frequent meetups.
Anon
I have reached the empty nester stage of life. Most of my “mom friends” have mostly dropped by the wayside as we discovered that all we had in common was kids the same age and changing jobs means I have kept the few work friends who turned out to be real friends but not the majority,. I have two suggestions:
(1) Stay in touch with your old friends, even if only casually. It is really hard to maintain relationships when you are in the thick of working full time and raising children, especially with people whose daily lives are so different from yours. BUT (and this is why I say stay in touch) some of those people might return to being actual friends when this stage of life passes. I have good friends now that I was friends with in my 20s and then hardly talked to in my 30s and 40s. I have good friends now that I was casual work-friends with a decade ago and with whom I reconnected. That would have been impossible if we had not maintained at least superficial relationships over the years.
(2) Organizations are good for social interactions. You might be friendly with 20 people and only friends with 2 but both kinds of relationships are important as you get older.
For most people friends and social interaction are important as they get older. There are all kinds of studies on that. And I caution against planning to rely on your children and their families (how many people on this site complaint about their “needy” parents? What about adult children who decide to move half-way across the country/world?). My relationship with my kid is much better because I have made it clear I do not rely on her to make me happy.
anon
All good thoughts, so thank you. I definitely care about my kids getting to live their own lives. My parents have given me that space, and I absolutely want my kids to have that, too.
Anon
So I have lost two longtime good friends in the last 18 months. One was a blowup – I felt the need to ask her (not confront – ask) about her substance use, after observing it during a friends’ weekend. (Combining large amounts of daily gabapentin with “recreational” Vicodin and large amounts of alcohol was concerning to me, and it still is.) One was a situation where the friendship had faded out over a couple of years; the person canceled plans for probably the 8th time in a row, and I sent her a text message saying – since what I propose never seems to work out for you on the day we’re supposed to meet, I’ll leave it to you to propose our next meet-up. And she has never gotten back in touch. We were good friends for 20 years but really have not substantively interacted in about three years, and have not spoken at all in the last year.
I have done a LOT of processing of these events, including with a therapist. And my therapist helped me explore the idea – which I had previously rejected – that despite what we see in TV and movies about “lifelong friendships,” people do evolve a lot between their teens and early 20s and their late 40s. So maybe the idea of “friends for life” isn’t possible for every friendship, given that people don’t evolve in the same direction all the time. She asked me to think about how I really felt – how it felt in my body, not in my justifying brain – when I was around some of my old friends. And the answer was – like you’re saying – many times I would walk away from time with these people not feeling great. I would feel hurt by their lack of interest in my life, or by something they had said that I felt was an insensitive response to something I had said that was pretty personal.
So then I had to ask myself the question: was I hanging on to these friendships, with people I did not seem to have much in common with any more, because it felt like what I was “supposed” to do? Or did I genuinely enjoy these relationships – they made me feel better about myself and about my life, and provided an outlet for me, and I felt loved after I was with these people? My therapist asked me to ask myself: if I met these people today for the first time, would I still want to be friends with them? In some cases, the answer is yes. In other cases – there’s no way. My friend who was taking pills and drinking has morphed over the years into the kind of person I would not choose to hang out with, if I had a choice. So maybe the friendship had run its course, and my questioning of her was just a good justification for her to end something that was uncomfortable for her as well.
I hear you about being lonely in older years and I don’t want that for myself either. But it also doesn’t feel good, or authentic, to me, to hang on to friendships that don’t fit any more because of fear of loneliness. It’s like hanging on to a special-occasion dress that isn’t flattering and doesn’t fit because I might need it someday. Wouldn’t it be better to give that away, and if the occasion arises, buy a dress that does fit and flatter? I feel like friendships can be the same – I can find friends that fit my personality and life as it is now, and not what it was when I was 18 years old. I am definitely not the same person I was when I was 18. My husband and I have been together a long time, but close proximity to each other has allowed us (IMO) to evolve in tandem. I think with my far-flung old friends – we don’t see each other enough for tandem evolution to happen. They evolve, and I evolve, and sometimes the evolution leads us to divergent paths. I went through some actual exercises to release the energy attached to my old friendships, and acknowledge and celebrate what was, rather than – as my therapist said – emotionally continuing to drag around a suitcase full of old clothes that don’t fit any more, just because I didn’t know what else to do with it.
So, in answer to your question – I think if you are “way less tolerant of people who don’t get you” – instead of resisting that, lean into it. Where could you meet people who “get you”? Rather than trying to raise my dead friendships from the grave, I leaned into making new friends, and I am now hanging out with some great people who “get me” and understand my life and my perspectives. It is a whole different energy, let me assure you. I have friends who are younger than me, my age, older than me, but they “get me” much better than my old friends did, and being around them is energizing. It is possible. So think about how to make it possible for you. Big hugs. This has been one of the most difficult and painful transition periods of my life – but on the other side of it? The change is worth it.
Anon
This is such a thoughtful and thought-provoking response. Not OP, but I really appreciate the time and effort you put into writing this out.
Anonymous
This is a great response. Thank you!
anon
OP here, and wow. I’m going to reflect on this a lot. You’ve clearly given this a lot of thought and this is helpful!
Anon
I am so glad you find it helpful. I paid that therapist a lot of money (haha), so it’s great if someone else can get some insight out of the things she and I worked through!
Anon
My closest friends from high school and college all live really far away. We all work full-time and most have kids the same age as mine. We text and email consistently, but sometimes not frequently (not unheard of to go a few months without contact, but when we resume we pick back up quickly). Many of them are in one place and I try to go there once every year or two. They are my emotional ride-or-dies but not the people who know the most about what’s going on in my day to day life. I expect these people will be in my life until we’re dead.
My local friends are not as emotionally close, but I see them much more frequently. They’re mostly moms of kids my kid gets along with reasonably well, and we primarily get together with the kids. Kids are old enough (5+) that we get relatively uninterrupted time to converse. I expect these friendships may fade if our kids grow apart, but I will find new ones.
Fwiw, I work but have a very flexible job and have found that I click best with moms who work part-time or have very flexible schedules. I’ve made my best local mom friends volunteering in the kids’ school, and we often do stuff like walking or working out during the work day. I agree with others that if you have a demanding full-time job you’re unlikely to find close friendships with people who SAHM.
Anonymous
Is there such a thing as too much saving? Meaning did you ever feel like I earn x, I should really loosen the purse strings now and splurge on y. What did you splurge on – especially if it’s something that made your life better overall not just a one time purchase of a vacation or fancy shoes?
Assume that loans, down payments or home purchases are done so it isn’t a matter of – no keep socking money away for those.
Anon
i actually asked my mom this question shortly before she lost her ability to communicate at age 65.5 and she passed away a few months later. my dad now has plenty of money, which is nice, but he and my mom never got to do the traveling they planned for in their retirement. my mom passed away 1.5 years after she retired. she said she wishes that when we took family trips they’d splurged for 2 hotel rooms (we are a 2 adult, 2 kid family) and maybe a bit more outsourcing.
Anonymous
Similarly, my mother gave me the unsolicited advice to save “enough” but then go see the world and enjoy people because you don’t know when you will lose that ability, either because of your own frailty or because of caretaking. She spent a lot of money traveling in her 60s and 70s and spent some time fretting about it until she couldn’t go anywhere because her husband is declining. That said, she is in a very privileged position, mostly due to inheritance, which I will most likely not be in, for a variety of reasons, including that she has spent most of the family inheritance.
Anon
I agree. I’m not even 40 and due to a childbirth injury I’ll probably never be able to do the kind of active vacations I used to. I’m so glad I was able to travel and hike around the world when I was younger. Waiting for “some day” would have turned into never.
Anon
“That said, she is in a very privileged position, mostly due to inheritance, which I will most likely not be in, for a variety of reasons, including that she has spent most of the family inheritance.”
Saaaaame.
Anonymous
Yes, there is too much saving, especially if it’s unplanned and coming from a place of “I might not have enough, I have to be sure to save everything possible.”
Personally, I’d travel, though I understand that’s not something that you’re looking for.
I’d also give away more money. Designate a “fun money give away” fund and start looking for ways to give it away. Giving is fun.
Anon
Re: give away more money – any tips for starting this kind of discussion with young adult kids? (I know, we should have started earlier, but here we are.) DH and I have started making some on-the-smaller-side-of major gifts. I don’t want to have the conversation “look how great we are,” but we do want a way to start a series of conversations about family giving. We will be together for Thanksgiving. Is there a good way to have the conversation over dinner?
anonshmanon
I learned by example. For example we would get the solicitation letter from doctors without borders in the mail, and my mom would make an offhand comment such as ‘I will write them their check when I get my year end bonus as always’. Or there would be a fund raiser telethon and my parents would mention how they just donated to xyz other place so they were not going to participate for this one. Adults in my family also frequently make donations for causes in lieu of gifting ‘stuff’ that neither of us want. So during unwrapping presents, your kids might see how your husband gives you a donation certificate for some cause close to your heart. It’s not a sit-down conversation but just something they will perceive as a part of life.
Senior Attorney
I agree — jiust do it. I’ve always given money and talked about it with my daughter so it’s normal in our family. We don’t do donations in lieu of gifts (I am not a fan of that kind of thing unless the recipient specifically requests it), but philanthropy a fairly big part of our lives so it comes up naturally. E.g. “what did you do this weekend?” “We went to a really fun donor event at the local theatre.”
Anonymous
Rather than talk about it, I’d just do it, with real money.
I’d do a family “philanthropists fund” where the whole family gets to decide where the grants go. Or present 2-3 options for where the next “smaller side of major” gift will go, and ask everyone to make the decision together. Or give each kid an amount to give away, out of your end-of-year giving. Or tell them you’re going to do matching grants next year, up to X amount. Whatever they give, you guys will match 1-1 or 2-1.
Senior Attorney
This is a great idea.
anon
Start with the conversation with an estate planner. If you need to give away money for estate tax purposes, then you need structure, trusts will be set up, and you will be maxing out gift limits each year. Even if it’s not estate tax purposes, there are still advantages to doing a more formal structure if you are thinking about gifting a good amount. Short version, not a thanksgiving convo but a proper family discussion about here is the will, these are our wishes, etc. If it is just making more charitable contributions, I would decide on what charities you want to support and focus your money on a handful. There is more reward in getting really involved in one or two, than spreading your money out over multiple. Also, if you like the arts, figure out the donor level that gives you access to donor reception at shows (aka better bathrooms) and valet parking.
Anon
I think so. I’ve never found frugality to be the virtue that so many people seem to. After planning reasonably for your future, spend your money and enjoy your life. I travel, throw parties, buy nice clothes, have a well appointed home, etc.
Iris Apfel
If I had the budget, I’d outsource all the things I hate doing. Cleaning the house, cleaning my car, yardwork, etc. Time is more precious than money and I hate spending time on those things.
No Face
I became the queen of outsourcing after the pandemic. It is glorious.
BeenThatGuy
This is me. Time is our most valuable asset and it’s something we never get back. I’ve been fortunate to afford a house cleaner, landscaper, handyman on call, a car wash guy that comes to my office (an amazing find), etc. I’d rather spend that time meeting a friend for coffee, watching my kid play a sport/doing carpool, or exercising. If all those outsourcing things had to end, I’d be miserable.
Anon
Housing. I was making almost $150k and lived in a studio apartment. Living alone in the city is expensive and I had it in my head that I shouldn’t spend more than X% of my take home pay in housing. I eventually said F it, signed a lease on a big apartment, and never regretted it. Yes it’s expensive but it made a huge difference in my day to day happiness. I’d rather spend more money on rent and love my home than pay for random activities four nights a week just to get out of my tiny apartment.
anon
You should look up Ramit Sethi. He talks a lot about saving the appropriate amount, spending lavishly on things that are important to you, and then being frugal about things that aren’t.
Anon
Never heard of him but that sounds right up my alley – I spend a lot on things to support my hobbies (bike gear, ski gear, travel) and nothing on other areas (outsourced chores, manicures, hair removal). The balance feels good.
Cat
+1 — never heard of this guy either but I am all about NOT spending money when it doesn’t improve my life in a meaningful way. Frees up that cash for stuff that does!
Anon
Yes. Occasssionally, I think I “should” get a new fancy car because I am a lawyer even though I work from home and rarely have to pick up a colleague for work related travel. It is all about what others think. But in reality, I prefer to keep my ten year old car and splurge on self care and cleaning services every month.
Anonymous
I have never heard about him until last week in The happiness project email and now here again. I go throught his IG account and I found it interesting. I would make different lists but he made me think about my spending/saving priorities.
Anon 2.0
Absolutely there is! A family member died in her early 60s and her husband not long after. They had substantial savings accounts yet she refused to even buy off season produce she wanted because of the price. She loved the beach and they went often but yet ate sandwiches in their room for dinner. They didn’t do things they would have enjoyed and left behind a large sum of money to 2 children, who despite being adults, were not equipped to handle it.
Anon
That’s so depressing. I don’t care about inheriting money from my parents, I want them to enjoy their lives.
Anon
100%. My dad jokes about “spending our inheritance” when he buys things but I’m just so grateful they’re happy and healthy in their retirement. If a fancy riding mower makes him happy I want him to have it.
NW Islander
Yes, I think one can save too much. I saved too much for a long time, due to growing up in a household with constant financial panic. As a child and young adult, I always thought we were about to lose the house. I put cash into envelopes and maintained a strict budget until my 30s. I was still driving a 20+ year old car after achieving a 7-figure net worth.
At 39 I decided that I could start living a little. I bought a 3 year certified German car. I spend many hours in my car now, and it is so much more comfortable. Car is 8 years old now, but I appreciate it so much.
I also spend more now on comfortable shoes, clothes, and travel. I used to spend almost nothing on these things, relying on Goodwill and $5 sales at Old Navy.
Anon
Does anyone have any advice for dealing with the fallout of a spouse’s depression?
I nursed my husband through several episodes over the last 10 years. I pushed through the difficult times and when he was better I was just happy to have him back.
The last major episode was at the end of 2019. In hindsight, he should have been in a facility but I didn’t know any better. He just started to improve just when the pandemic started. I went into overdrive to protect his routine and his mental health, at the expense of mine. I took in the brunt of all of it so he wouldn’t relapse. It worked, no episode. But as the pandemic ended he had nothing for contempt for me. I know that is more depression but man it hurt. It completely broke my love for him.
If I didn’t have kids, I would just get divorced. I am trying to hang in there. He finally agreed to see a psychiatrist instead of just relying on meds from his PCP so there is a chance things could improve. I just feel nothing for him and I’m tired of being uncomfortable in my own home.
Sorry for the novel.
Cerulean
In the worst depths of my depression, I never, ever had contempt for my husband. I was so grateful for his help and support. Did I sometimes get annoyed or cranky or withdraw? Absolutely. A marriage with contempt and one where you’re doing all of the supporting and don’t get any support yourself isn’t sustainable. I would go to counseling, alone or joint (or both?) to figure out a path forward. I’m sorry.
Anonymous
Whoa, what – he’s only just NOW seeing a psychiatrist?? Girl, you’ve taken on too much here. It’s not your job to heal him; that’s medication’s job.
I genuinely believe there are two types of people with depression: the type who want to get better and the whiny babies who won’t do the work to fix themselves. The second kind in my experience will flail through life regardless of whether or not you’re there – they’ll just find someone else to glom onto and complain to but never take any steps to get better. They love the pity and the attention.
I had a very close friend in law school who had suffered terrible depression most of his life. I’d plead with him to go to student health to get meds. “Oh, meds don’t work.” “I don’t feel like myself when I take them.” On semester, his talk was serious enough that I thought he’d skip his exams and fail out, so I told the dean because I didn’t know what else to do. Miraculously, he was able to pull himself together and get Bs and go on with his life. Was his depression real? Absolutely. But was there attention seeking in there and leaning on me and wanting ME to make it better for him? Oh heck yes.
I live with terrible depression, and when suicide has crept into my mind a time or two, it’s terrified the real me trapped underneath the smothering blanket of depression into picking up the phone or asking a friend to help. But what you describe? That’s just man-baby laziness with a side of depression.
Anon
+1 Why hasn’t he seen a psychiatrist until now??
Anon
I’m so sorry. I cannot fathom living with someone who has contempt for me. The kids are going to see that. I would divorce him. Sounds like you’ve gone above and beyond.
Sometimes it is ok to give up and move on.
anon
Contempt after she worked really hard to keep their lives together while he was struggling. That is really not good.
Senior Attorney
Agree. Contempt is one of the Gottmans’ Four Horsemen of the Apocalpyse for a very good reason.
You are not required to sacrifice your mental health for his. I left my first husband due to mental health issues he wouldn’t address, and he is no worse off than he was before, and it was absolutely the right thing for me. You’ve done your time, OP.
Anon
You’ve been doing this for TEN YEARS and it hasn’t gotten any better. You need to take care of yourself and your kids now.
Anonymous
Holy cow, I’m the anonymous at 11:23 and missed the fact that it’s been TEN YEARS. Ten YEARS?!?! OMG, what? In the strongest possible terms, haaaayylll no. Honey, he’s using you because he can. Because he’s too lazy/immature/emotionally underdeveloped to be an adult and fix his own mental health. Nope nope nope. Goodbye!
Anonymous
Contempt is lethal to a relationship. You need to see a therapist to figure out what you want here.
Anonymous
PS – and I am so sorry you are dealing with this!
Anonymous
You’re throwing your life away. Get divorced.
Anon
+1
Anon
Hugs. I was in your exact shoes for 10 years. We finally got divorced – for better or for worse we never had kids which I realize made it easier. I was so, so, so exhausted and because I had taken such an active role in his treatment he kind of blamed me for everything, accused me of making him more depressed, and a lot of other awful things I won’t go into. It’s only once I left that I realized how bad things had been. I felt like a cloud had finally lifted and I could actually breathe better. I started to find joy in life and realized I had gotten really depressed too from thinking my life was hopeless and it was never going to go away.
I would strongly recommend both therapy for yourself and couples therapy if he’s willing. It may be that divorce is your best option even with kids. It may be that things will get better with the right treatment for him and he’ll be willing to work with you in child therapy. It may be that you can’t get divorced because you don’t trust him around the kids if he gets some custody (in hindsight, this would have been my fear with my ex). Either way, you need to take care of your mental health. I know this is hard, but try to put yourself (and your kids) first sometimes. Get hobbies. See friends and family. Tell them how bad it’s been (I never did because I was protecting his privacy but it ended up with me being completely isolated and shouldering everything alone). And hopefully you can get some clarity.
Just so you know, because I felt tremendous guilt for leaving my ex – this isn’t on you to solve, and you cannot put his well-being above your own. I’m sorry you’re going through this.
Anon
I agree with the recs for couples therapy. In a way you’ve trained him to be like this – you do everything but stand on your head so that he doesn’t get depressed again so now he sees you as someone in service of himself. And he’s contemptuous because the service isn’t up to par, I suppose.
How are you ever going to get your own needs met if it’s always all about him?
I’m really surprised the contempt isn’t coming from you.
Anon
Thank you for your comments. I really appreciate it.
We did weekly couples counseling for months and it was miserable. As far as he was concerned, his depression is not that bad so he doesn’t need to show the kind of appreciation I need. He wasn’t contemptuous of me, so he doesn’t need to apologize. Asking for what I need and hearing a resounding no over and over again was the nail in the coffin.
I started rebuilding my friendships, working out, and getting more involved at work. I got my own therapist and I started realizing just how unhealthy all this is. I also started reading more about codependency.
The psychiatrist appointment is next month. I will see him through the change in his treatment plan for my kids’ sake, then I’m moving on.
Anonymous
There is literally zero reason to not call a lawyer today. Even if you decide to hold off on filing, start making your plans. And don’t think you can do this without a lawyer.
LizzieBennet
+1. Call today.
Anon
Sounds like you should have moved on a while ago. This random stranger supports you doing what is right for you 100%.
Anon
Anon at 11:23. I know I’m all over this thread. Good for you. And ditto the others – go ahead and find yourself a divorce lawyer and have your ducks all in a row. You realized it long before I typed it that he’s the not-awesome kind of person with depression – the lazy man-baby kind. Moving on will be worth it.
Senior Attorney
Good for you! Seconding all the great advice to lawyer up now and be ready to pull the trigger the minute you feel it’s appropriate.
Anon
The detail about what happened in couples counseling makes me wonder about how much of the behavior you’ve attributed to depression is actually depression, and how much may be other stuff. I don’t have enough information about how he’s showing up to guess at what the “other stuff” may be – but potential candidates would be relying on you to do all the emotional labor, relying on you to do all/most of the household or kid-related labor, including the planning, and having an entitled attitude in other ways. All of these can show up in men whether there is depression or not.
Anon
Anon at 3:52 here with a clarification. The reason I’m saying this is because you may have been hoping that treating the depression may improve these other types of behaviors. If so, I’d encourage you to re-consider that. I don’t think the pill has been invented. Sorry if this sounds harsh. I’m not being harsh *at* you, but at the possibility that he’s been taking advantage of you.
Anon
You’re giving your kids a terrible model for relationships.
Unfocused
I am currently struggling with some executive functioning skills (managing to-do lists, staying on top of chores) primarily in my personal life, and it’s impacting my relationship with my husband because he feels like he can’t depend on me. Has anyone faced similar issues and found an executive functioning coach for adults? Any recommendations for online services that worked for them or things to look for in a coach or service?
Unfocused
I am currently struggling with some executive functioning skills (managing to-do lists, staying on top of chores and recurring home maintenance) primarily in my personal life, and it’s impacting my relationship with my husband because he feels like he can’t depend on me. Has anyone faced similar issues and found an executive functioning coach for adults? Any recommendations for online services that worked for them or things to look for in a coach or service?
anon
Domestic blisters/KC davis may be someone to look into. She talks a lot about managing executive disfunction. I also like some of the tools/frameworks from Lazy genius podcast/book. You also may want to consider reading fair play, and discussing division of labor, and is it making sense for you to manage certain things versus him
Anon
This isn’t something you can outsource. You have to decide that you care and that you’re going to change your behavior. And then do it. Use a calendar, to do lists, etc. This wheel has already been invented.
Anon
I think she’s looking for someone to help her change the behavior! It sounds to me like she’s decided she cares and is now looking for help with the implementation part.
a
Yeah, but as someone who has been through this what feels like a zillion times, and read the books and bought the planners, the coach is going to tell her to do what she’s already doing or could Google. Maybe the coach could be an (expensive) accountability partner of sorts. Or she may need a therapist or medication – often my organizational issues fluctuate with my anxiety and have gotten better since taking meds.
There’s a certainly kernel of truth to the idea that sometimes you just have to do what you already know you need to do.
a
Yes. Calendar reminders are key for me – look up the tickler system. To do lists, packing lists, lists lists lists. But you still have to Do the Things. There is no magic system for that (trust me, if there was I would have found it).
Anon
I just started online therapy for similar reasons. The planners are not going to fix me or you. It is about getting to the overwhelm and tools to keep from getting there. You need help from a solutions based therapist.
Anon
I haven’t had a coach but benefited from an Organization class that helped me with both techniques (summarize 30 mins at the end of each day, how to prioritize) and also tools (use the Outlook function that takes an email and makes it into a Task, calendar everything).
Shopping help!
Please help me shop for a dress for family pictures! Pear, with some stomach after having kids, and with a bust. On the line between petite and standard sizes. Structured waist is fine; fitted skirt likely to be an issue. Generally I like color, especially pink/red/coral, and vibrant blue. Ok spending some money on this, as my closet is pretty thin after COVID and a couple of babies. Photos will be me, husband, and kids (preschool and young toddler), outdoors in the Bay Area.
Anon
I’m shaped like you and like Sue Sartor and also Banana Republic. I’m a smallish medium or SMedium and take a M I. Sue Sartor (buying a bit big so I should always be able to wear them — I get the Paloma style).
Anonymous
I recently wore a Somerset dress from Anthropologie for family pictures and like how it looked on camera. They have a ton of different color and print options right now.
Anonymous
I’m loathe to open this topic again, but can anyone explain to me why the British and French aren’t more involved in the Israel-Palestine situation? To paint with an overly simplistic brush, it’s my understanding that they “caused” this when they drew the borders the way they did, so why aren’t they trying to clean up “their” mess? Were they involved up until a certain point, then backed away? Again, I get that this is grossly simplistic, I’m just sick to my stomach over reports this morning of private discussions about possibly sending American troops. No! No more American soldiers dying in quixotic Middle East wars!
Anon
To me, that seems like exactly the reason why they shouldn’t be involved. Haven’t they caused enough trouble?
Anon
I can’t speak to their lack of current involvement, but I’m wondering whether all parties might be looking to a two-state solution that doesn’t include Gaza as part of a Palestinian state (just the West Bank).
Anon
um, so now we are blaming the British and French for causing the current war between Israel and Gaza? Why is it so hard to blame the terrorist organization
Anonon
When people say you can’t have a reasonable discussion on the Israel-Palestine situation, this is the type of comments that embody that belief.
Trying to work out or learn more about historical context isn’t about blaming. What is it about people and this conflict that the second you say, hmmm…let’s looks at what happened before Oct. 7th the immediate reaction is but what about HAMAS? did Hamas just appear out of thin air one day? Maybe if we can actually learn about the past, we can be more effective at preventing the formation of terrorist groups in the future than thinking we can just bomb an ideology out of existence (as the generation who grew up in American post-9/11 and then seeing decades later how spectacularly we failed in Afghanistan we should understand just how well bombing people to death doesn’t work).
Anon
Agree. I was also against what the US did after 9/11 and agree we can all see how well that worked.
Anon
+1. Same exact sentiment. Everything we did in Afghanistan backfired on us. After two decades, the country is right back to where it was when we invaded. Our intervention does not solve problems, it creates them, and that has been proven over and over and over again in the Middle East, Southeast Asia and Central and South America. We should not send troops to Gaza. The U.S. needs to stay out of this. Our intervention will not help, fix or solve anything, and will likely just make the situation worse.
Cb
I think the UK has (despite its delusions) a very limited influence on global affairs these days. It’s an increasingly irrelevant power, which accelerated with Brexit.
Signed – a Brit Politics academic living in the UK.
Anon
Please tell the average Brit this. We have a holiday home there and are constantly staggered by their self delusion.
Anon
No one’s making you “holiday” there. Sheesh, if I had such contempt for a nationality I certainly wouldn’t go there all the time and own property.
Anonymous
Well, that’s exactly what Brits do all the time, buying property in countries where they feel superior. (And then they don’t understand why the locals can’t stand them).
Cerulean
Sure hope you aren’t speaking as an American.
Anon
Not anon above, but I have a vivid memory of being on vacation in Costa Rica in 2018 and a British woman gleefully informing me she watches CNN for her entertainment bc “everything happening over there is like a soap opera.” If you’re intelligent enough to know Trump is a sh!tshow you should also not throw stones from glass houses in the time of Brexit/Boris, no? In my experience traveling, Brits think of themselves as “above” Americans when….our countries are both kind of a mess.
Anon
The Brits did not leave Mandatory Palestine, and the French did not leave their former colonies (Lebanon, Syria), in a vacuum. The UN did not yet exist, but the League of Nations did and it, and other countries, were involved. Spoiler alert: they made mistakes.
Anon Historian
Short answer? Because neither side wants them to come sweeping in to “fix” the situation and it would almost certainly devolve again the minute they left (see Afghanistan).
Also, saying they caused it is a gross oversimplification; I would highly recommend everyone who does not already know the history of the Middle East to spend some time reading about it at least back to the nineteenth century and particularly the Ottomans.
Anon
Yeah, I think the most obvious reason is that no one has asked them to. Israel is a sovereign nation, it’s not a failed state, it’s not asking the UK or France to come do something. And frankly, Israel doesn’t need them to, given their military strength, so they’d be coming in to intercede on behalf of the Hamas (since there is no other entity with stature to represent Gazans) for some sort of peace talks, which neither Israel nor Hamas has signaled interest in.
Anonymous
This. I find it wild that so many people have no idea about the effect of the Ottoman Empire on the region in the 1800s.
anon
The Ottomans are one of my favorite topics. So interesting.
Anon
Could you make book or scholar recommendations?
Anon
Also, what exactly do you want them to do? They are both using their diplomatic power (which, as CB pointed out, is pretty limited these days) and providing some logistical support/aid. But first, I’m not sure it’s fair to single them out in that way, I’m pretty sure no one really wants them to be single-handedly involved, and what are they going to do – send troops? To what side? The only appropriate way could be a UN peacekeeping force, but the UN is pretty ineffective these days especially on this topic, so here we are.
Anonymous
Not sure what you mean by “more involved”. France as part of the European Union is asking for a cease fire. Also has voted in the same way in the UN. UK was the only one abstained. USA voted against.
Perhaps you mean why Europe doesn’t side with the decisions of Israeli governments like the USA? Because they don’t agree.
Anon
We have tons of adult M and L t-shirts with words on them from various 5Ks, blood drives, camps, school events, etc. does Goodwill want these? Or just the trash? Neighborhood kids don’t need. Most are all cotton but a few are blends or all-poly.
Cat
trash or stores that collect material for textile recycling. Goodwill is not interested in trying to sell an old 5K tshirt. We do keep a bin of these in the basement for essentially disposable messy house project clothes (painting etc).
Anonymous
I thought Goodwill sorted textile donations and recycled what they couldn’t sell. Where I live, there is no other way to recycle textiles.
Anon
My Goodwill has tons of them on racks with $5 price tags.
Anon
If they are tech shirts, ask the local track team. The kids can use them for practice (obviously not for meets).
Anonymous
Goodwill won’t want them because no one will buy them.
You can
-turn them into rags
-see if an animal shelter would want them
-see if a preschool/kindergarten/daycare would want them for messy project coveralls
-use them as disposable messy project clothes
-turn them into a braided bath mat
Anon
Call your local wildlife rehab and ask if they want the cotton ones. The rehab in my city uses them for baby animal bedding, and specifically asks for them because the 100% cotton knit is tight enough that baby animal claws don’t snag.
Anon
There’s a company called ForDays that will recycle textiles. It costs $20 and they send you a bag in the mail that you fill and and have the mailman pick up.
Anon
Not sure if it’s common but our Costco has a bin for textile recycling in the parking lot. I bring stuff that’s useless as donations.
Very Anonymous
H&M does textile recycling as well!
Anon
earlier this week someone posted a comment asking if any Jewish people have changed their behavior in light of recents events and someone replied “now you know what it’s like to be a POC.” I was too late in the day to respond then, and was swamped yesterday, so wanted to respond now:
-there does not need to be a suffering olympics. yesterday on the moms board someone posted about how they are struggling because a parent was recently diagnosed with cancer, they are pregnant and during their last pregnancy a relative suddenly passed away and someone actually wrote back that it’s not a tragedy. yes, it is likely someone always has it worse, but you are still allowed to be upset if your relative has cancer. just like you can be upset if uber drivers are suddenly asking if you’re Jewish and you are scared to respond.
– I am a Jewish POC and in some ways to me the antisemitism is worse than the racism. At least when people thought I was ‘just’ a POC it was easier for me to tell perhaps who didn’t like me, but now the responses I get when some people learn I am Jewish are baffling. Like “oh, I didn’t realize you are one of them.” After George Floyd was murdered, many friends/colleagues reached out to me, and while yes some of it felt performative, I know that their intentions were in the right place. Many of those people have also continued to educate themselves. The number of ‘friends’ who know I’m Jewish and have reached out recently doesn’t even come close to comparing. What is even worse is seeing some of those ‘friends’ chanting “from the river to the sea.” Beginning a sentence “What Hamas did to Israelis on October 7 was terrible, but the actions of the Israeli government…” There is no “but” when it comes to rape. Rape is never justified. Neither is mutilating people. I disagree with many of the actions of the Israeli government. You can disagree with the Israeli government, want the hostages released, want a ceasefire, want humanitarian aid for the people of Gaza, without being antisemitic. Wanting to eliminate the entire country of Israel is antisemitic. I grew up attending a Jewish school and keep receiving emails asking for donations for increased security. Someone sprayed a swastika outside our synagogue. Please speak up. Don’t be like those who stayed silent in the 1930s in Europe.
twentytwo
Agreed, and fortunately commenters pushed back on this in that discussion.
Anon
Reading late and thanks for this. Also Jewish and the silence from my non-Jewish friends coupled with their ignorant posts (suddenly experts in the Middle East) is astounding and sadly not all that surprising.
Anon
Thanks for this. Intellectually, we knew that antisemitism was the last acceptable hate. But now we know it in our kishkes.
Anon
I think we’ve had a thread about this recently, but I searched and couldn’t find it so – this may be a repeat question; apologies.
My BabyLiss Pro hair dryer from several years back is on its last legs, and I’m going to need a new one. Black Friday is coming up and I want to be on the lookout for a great deal on a good regular (non-styler) hair dryer that will last me awhile.
I have a Revlon One-Step styler and I like it for getting me a “blown out” look once my hair is partially dry. But I have super-fine hair that has a tendency toward oiliness, and almost no natural volume whatsoever, and so in addition to product, I need to blow dry my roots before I attempt any styling – even with the One Step.
So – does anyone have a regular ol’ hair dryer they just love? I do like having a cool shot button, but other than that, don’t need a lot of bells and whistles. The main thing is that it puts out a strong flow of air, with a decently high heat level, and that it will last me a number of years (I think I got close to 10 out of the BabyLiss).
TIA!
Cat
Is there a reason you wouldn’t just buy a new Babyliss? My current one is like 8-9 years old and still doing just fine drying-wise. I will def look to purchase a similar model when it eventually wears out!
Senior Attorney
+1 to getting a new Babyliss.
Anon
Open to that, but having not shopped for a hair dryer in years, I was curious if there’s anything else out there that people really love.
Anonymous
Rusk W8less is my favorite and a bit less $$, but I also have and like a Babyliss
Anon
I like the dry bar dryer.
Anon
the Cornell student arrested for issuing threats against Jewish students was a national merit scholar, involved with science olympiad and new student orientation at Cornell. I think as a society we’ve failed our youth if this is what smart students are up to these days
Anon
I completely agree. It pains me to see so many smart minds chanting genocidal slogans en masse or tearing down posters of the Israeli hostages and spitting on them. What went wrong with them? Who taught them to hate Jews so much?
Anon
meh. The smart hippie college students were pretty much communists back in the day. Maybe read up on the Weather Underground?
Anonymous
Smart students, especially wealthy smart students, have always gotten away with things, or had excuses made for them, though. (I went to high school with a horrible human being who was never called to the carpet because “honors student with a bright future”).
Seventh Sister
I remember this from my own high school experience and I don’t think it’s gotten better, only worse. Especially if it’s something that doesn’t involve fighting, my kids’ high school is pretty ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
The “restorative justice” nonsense only makes this worse. When my kid was the victim of a particularly nasty threat, my kid just wanted the offender (a classmate my kid barely knew) to leave her alone. My kid didn’t want to waste her own time on a process that would only benefit the offender by wiping the offender’s record clean.
Anon
A handful of students acting poorly does not mean all “smart students” are being hateful and causing harm to others. There have always been racists and anti-Semites in every group, and yes, as a society we have continuously failed to put an end to hate. That is nothing new. Drawing in broad strokes to try to elicit some reaction isn’t helpful here.
Anon
+1 million. I really don’t understand what this comment is about, other than trying to start an ugly argument that goes nowhere.
No Face
There have always been highly intelligent, very accomplished racists.
Anonymous
Just what we need–more hatred against smart kids. How about hatred against spoiled rich kids instead?
Anon
There are people at all levels of academic and professional achievement who have shockingly repugnant views that they don’t hide all that well.
Cerulean
Sometimes I think some really smart people are prone to awful beliefs because they love feeling like they have insider knowledge of the workings of the world. They have a sense of superiority that reason and compassion can’t penetrate.
Cb
I see this in the classroom all the time. Especially with young men. They are smart, but often don’t apply themselves, and are “not like other people…” so they get their news from other sources. I saw it with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and am now seeing it with Israel/Gaza. They like to have “edgy” views to be provocative.
anon
This explains like 90% of Silicon Valley bro culture tbh.
anon
As someone who works in Silicon Valley bro culture, so much this.
anon
I’m gonna say as long as we live in this system where the best grades, the right school, the prestigious scholarship, the right job, the highest salary, etc etc… are used as proxy for the people who know best and should lead society, this kind of arrogance is the natural consequence. I will admit in this sort-of anonymous forum, that I briefly was into the notion that because I have a pretty good education and think my way to live generally is neat, I felt an obligation to have kids and pass on whatever it is that I like about my life. Basically Elon Musk’s reproductive motivation… Luckily a friend of mine didn’t mince words that that is a) pretty arrogant and b) not a sufficient reason to have kids.
Seventh Sister
As someone with a teenager who is looking at college, I’m sure there are plenty of students at Cornell who have similar test scores and activities. And most of them had the good sense not to make threats. This seems like a classic FAFO situation, and I’m glad law enforcement is taking this seriously.
Anon
My husband and I both went to Ivies (him to Cornell) and honestly, I’m starting to question whether or not I’d send my kid to one of these schools even if she can get in. This student is obviously an extreme example, but the whole response to this from the “elite” colleges has been abhorrent.
Seventh Sister
My eldest is a pretty practical sort who is mostly interested in math and science (to the surprise of her very humanities-focused parents).
To be frank, I think she might find the political climate at my alma mater so repellant that she wouldn’t participate in anything having to do with a political issue, even something I’d find anodyne like voter registration. So another college might be a much better fit in that respect, and I’m fine with that since I want her to have the best college experience for her, not for me.
The discourse at my alma mater about this recent conflict has apparently been pretty nasty, and the response from the school has been pretty blasé, which I find disappointing but not surprising. It’s a pattern and I feel like it alienates a lot more stakeholders than the administration realizes at this point.
Anon
@Seventh Sister – I can’t remember if you are a Wellesley alumna. If so, the College held a Zoom Sunday for Jewish alumnae. Rabbi Bodian was also there. It was focused on how to support current students and was productive. If you are a W alumna and didn’t get the email invitation, please contact Rabbi Bodian or Wellesley Hillel and ask to be put on the list for the next one.
Anonymous
Voter registration is no longer an anodyne issue. Even the most basic issues that should be nonpartisan have become polarized now that each side wants only the “right” people to vote or have a voice. My daughter is applying to college and fear that her college education will be completely hijacked by politics and social issues and that she will spend all her time worrying about saying or doing or posting the “correct” thing in class discussions instead of truly engaging with varying perspectives. It’s really sad.
I think your alma mater is where I did my postbac. Although I loved it back then, I am very glad my daughter has decided not to apply there.
Anon
I mean, there have always been people who are both smart and terrible. That’s not new.
Anonon
What is this shade of purple called?
https://mmlafleur.com/products/nejvi-iris
Anon
They called it Iris which I think is apt.
Anonon
LOL…I didn’t even think of the flower, I thought of it as just a name (like the Sloan pants from BR). In my defense though when you google Iris there are many shades of purple Irises.
Cat
I would call it more like a dark periwinkle than “iris”
Anon
It’s called gorgeous
OP
Ha! Girl…yes. It’s particularly flattering on my skin tone so I’m trying to find a sweater this color.
Anon
Fellow cool toned person here. This is my dream color.
Anon
I would love a sweater in that color. Good luck! (And if you find one, please report back)
Anon
Came back to mention that Kettlewell has lots of colors separated by color season – it’s kind of their thing – I’d check under Summer and see what you can find.
Anon
Periwinkle or cerulean, perhaps? Although in either case it leans more into the purple than the blue side of things.
Senior Attorney
I’d call it lavender but I’m pretty basic.
NYNY
If I can trust the color on my monitor, I’d call it lilac. It’s a cool blue-purple, a little muted in tone, and a mid-to-light shade. It’s lovely!
Anon
+1 That’s what I came here to say
Anonymous
Agree. Periwinkle to lilac.
NaoNao
I’ve seen it called “forget me not blue” which I think is very pretty :) I agree that periwinkle might work, although in my mind periwinkle is a touch more purple/pinky and forget me not is that cooler, more blue color.
hotel
Checking into a pretty nice hotel Friday for the weekend.
I don’t stay in hotels.. especially nicer ones…. hardly at all.
What are reasonable things to ask for? Was going to call and confirm tomorrow.
Like, if check in is usually at 3, can I ask to check in an hour before then?
My flight gets in at noon and I’ll just be hanging after I get my car.
Do they ever have humidifiers? I use one at home, and for some reason I remember hotels as being pretty dry…
Thanks!
Cat
Yes, they should be able to accommodate early checkin. Unless it’s a hotel at altitude it would be unusual for them to have humidifiers around, but you could ask.
Cerulean
I call ahead about early check all the time and am rarely denied. It’s not at all high maintenance, they’ll let you check in if they have rooms ready. No idea about humidifiers, but that seems like a minor thing to ask for and probably nowhere near the strangest or most demanding request they’ll get in a given day.
Anon
Early check-in is a reasonable request. They can usually tell you that day whether your room will be ready early, so I would try calling before you leave the airport.
I’ve never heard of a humidifier being available; nor have I noticed hotel air being particularly dry.
Anonymous
You can ask for early check it but they may or may not be able to give it to you. Humidifier highly unlikely. In general, you get what you get.
Anon
I wouldn’t use a hotel humidifier anyway. You don’t know how or whether they clean those things.
Early check in has rarely been a problem for me. Worst case, you leave your bag, go have lunch, and your room will likely be ready when you get back.
Anon
good point
Anon88
If the air is dry in your room you can run the shower hot for a few minutes to get some moisture in the air.
Anonymous
I would just show up at the hotel, try to check in,, possibly with a sorry, I’m a little early, and if they can’t accomodate that just leave your luggage and go do something else until three.
If your room is ready, you will most likely be able to check in, and if it’s not, it’s in your interest anyway that they have time to let housekeeping do their job.
Anon
Venting here because my friends already have a negative view of my in-laws (and despite their *many* flaws I do love them as individuals and they are a part of our lives)…MIL sent pictures from their Halloween party last night and one of their friends dressed up as a homeless person??? Complete with extremely offensive signs insinuating all homeless people care about is alcohol and w33d. There were many pictures of him and his signs so clearly this group of middle-aged conservatives found it ~hilarious~ but I am so disgusted by it. The great irony is that my in-laws and all of their friends are extremely Christian. What happened to feeding the hungry and caring for the poor……sigh.
Cerulean
Ugh. People can be so thoughtless.
Anonymous
Be glad I guess that it wasn’t your FIL?
I just assume that Halloween will always be a time for some costumes in poor taste. I’m a devout Christian and a friend sent me a picture of her adult son dressed up as Jesus, complete with grapevine wreath for his head made by my friend. I really didn’t know how to respond. (I’ve been told more than once that because I’m “normal” and not Trumpy/homeschool/scripture quoting that the person didn’t realize I was devout.)
Anonymous
Yep. Halloween is the time when anything goes.
I couldn’t even count how many different, and equally gross, variations of Nuns, Priests, Jesus, and Mary I’ve seen over the years.
Senior Attorney
That’s just gross.
Anon
FWIW, I’m their demographic and I go out of my way to not denigrate people. It’s my job to see them as God sees them: infinity valuable.
Anon
Sadly, I think you are in the minority. I wish that weren’t the case.
Anon
Most all of my friends are like me. Sure, anyone’s friends tend to be more like them than the general population. It’s worth mentioning that obnoxious and cruel people are the ones people notice and remember.
Yesterday, I saw some people from my church when I was out trick or treating with my son. Their costumes were wholly unremarkable (in the sense of being completely socially acceptable).
Anon
Statistically, the Republican Party skews more Christian than the average American. And factually, the Republican Party votes against caring for the sick, feeding the hungry or providing for the poor. I’m glad that people in your church are decent, but “conservative Christian” is in my eyes an oxymoron.
nuqotw
Ooof. I’m sorry.
What Would You Do?
My boss called a team meeting for her direct reports and their direct reports. We were all asked to be on camera and to give updates on our key projects. One of my direct reports announces that she’s going to be folding and putting away laundry during the meeting. Then she proceeds to fold big items, like sheets and towels and then leave the camera to put them away while others are presenting. WTF?! How would you handle this? She was promoted a couple of years ago into a project manager role (she was previously an hourly employee), I inherited her and I find that she’s lacking professional judgment in so many areas. This is just one more example. Sigh. How do you teach this stuff?
anon
I mean, you ask her to meet with you and you tell her that was unacceptable and can’t happen again. That is how you handle it.
Anonymous
Right. And in the moment you respond “no now isn’t an appropriate time to fold laundry” and you message her on the side “you need to stop this right now and show up professionally”
Anon
+1 This is an easy one.
Anon
This, exactly. I’d also ping her during the call to say stop it.
Anon
Oh, yeah. Zero problem calling her on her cell and saying “this is not okay, please stop folding laundry until the call is over.”
Anon
Did you say something in the moment? Or at least message her on the side and tell her to cut it out, behave respectfully, and at least pretend to pay attention? Assuming her behavior really is a problem, I think you need to be direct that her professional judgement is an issue that needs to be improved, provide specific examples, a timeline for remediation, and potential impacts on her job if that doesn’t happen.
Anon
This, I think the best move would have been to ping her in the moment and ask her to remain focused during the call. Then follow up in your next 1:1 with why that wasn’t professional. If you didn’t do the former, then I would immediately do the latter.
anonmi
In your next 1:1, mention this behavior and that it’s not acceptable for video calls. This should be a straightforward conversation, not super contentious. Offer to connect her with a mentor outside your team who can help her understand professional norms and expectations in your organization.
Anon
You are her manager, so manage her. She lacks professional judgement, but how many conversations have you had with her about it? If you are not addressing this it reflects poorly on your managerial skills.
anon
I would confront her about her lack of professionalism, and that it’s a reflection of you to your boss, too. IMHO that can’t go unaddressed. Do it now/asap before more time lags between event and convo. You can’t address the breadth of lack of professional judgment in this one instance, but nip it in the bud and save the full convo for a review or a more well-thought out discussion.
Her promotion history is meaningless as far as I’m concerned. She reports to you. Your job is to manage her.
Employees deserve feedback – good AND bad. You need to deliver this to her.
Cat
why the heck didn’t you IM her in the moment? “Jane, stop that, sit down and listen politely to your colleagues”. I’m all for multitasking OFF CAMERA during meetings where I only need to listen, but you the manager correct the behavior!
Anon
This! And if need be, jump in and say “Jane, I just sent you a message.”
Anon
You’re a manager. Manage.
Anon
That’s crazy. I fold laundry during meetings but I have my camera off. I would never do it if I were presenting and expressly asked to have my camera on.
NaoNao
Along with what others have said, you might want to focus on what you DO want. It can be hard for those promoted to just spontaneously develop “professional judgement” so you could frame it as “When others are presenting, it’s considered good manners and expected to focus your attention on them, and that means not multi tasking. But aside from that, during work days, it’s best to leave any non work stuff out of public view and show that your attention and efforts are on work.”
nuqotw
I may try again on the afternoon thread…the first draft of my tenure package (the thing I need to submit to be considered for tenure) is due to my chair at COB Friday, so I can get feedback from my department. I’m trying to think of a small prize (ideally that is not food or clothes) for getting over this first hump. Trip to get a fun hair do that I could never in a million years execute myself? I’m not much for makeup or manicures or any other personal service thing.
Anon
A blowout at Drybar? A 30 min facial? A trip to the movies or an at-home streaming movie treat?
Anon
Preemptive congrats on finishing that big project :)
Do you like the outdoors? I would consider going on a really nice hike that’s outside my normal range (so maybe driving 1.5 hours to do it instead of sticking to the trail that’s 30 mins away like normal).
I also love massages. And taking a random day off in the middle of the week feels VERY indulgent to me, so even doing something like taking next Tuesday off and getting a manicure or similar would be a fun treat for me.
Anon
Jewelry!
anonshmanon
Jewelry!
Nesprin
Congrats on getting it in!!!! and may your tenure panel be sane, reasonable and swift.
Pick out your sabbatical location? Take your group out to lunch?
Anon
Congrats!!! I’m an academic spouse and know what a big milestone this is? I love to treat myself to massages after a busy period.
Anon
has anyone ever ordered from Temu?
Cerulean
No. Look up the Time article about all the issues with Temu.