Splurge Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Fikaito Herringbone Wool Blazer

274 Comments

1. If I see my son in law doing something I think is unsafe, for example holding a newborn without supporting the head, or pointing power tools towards a person instead of away…am I allowed to say anything? He says I’m a controlling person and asked me to cut short a visit, but those are the only two things I’ve criticized…

   1. I don’t think it’s up to us whether you are allowed to say anything. I think it may be up to your child and their spouse on what boundaries they are going to set.

   2. What does your daughter think?

      1. I agree with you for what it’s worth. But I’m not your SIL.

   3. I can see both sides of this one, but it sounds like there is more friction between you and SIL than just those two remarks may let on. Like, if there is a history of every time you see them, you say something critical, I can see him starting out from the perspective of “let’s see what I’m doing wrong THIS time!”

      I would have a quiet chat with your own child about the overall relationship – what does she (or he) think?

   4. Did he cite other examples of your criticism/being controlling when you cut short the visit? I think this is probably a long term issue not a short term one.

      I ask because my MIL criticizes my SIL’s husband a lot, but I could totally see her writing a post like this. She only seems to clock “direct” criticism but she also engages in a lot of indirect criticism (e.g., “I would never order that!” when he orders a meal she doesn’t like, replacing things my BIL picked out for my niece and nephew; if my BIL makes a plan for us to do for the day, suggesting an alternative or planning something at the same time, etc.).

      1. That is my MIL too. Personal favorite from the Father’s Day “celebration” was when she asked why my 14yo was bothering to volunteer at a local day camp. “What’s the point? Why would you do something like that for “those” children?”

   5. My mom can be bossy, and it annoys my husband sometimes and it’s something she’s really had to work on. I feel like I’d get defensive too if someone told me I was holding my baby wrong.

   6. Your comments seem entirely reasonable…yet my awful, awful mother in law probably frames her stories about the way she criticizes me in entirely reasonable terms to strangers as well.

      It seems like you want to be objectively “right” in your criticism and your son in law is trying to enforce a boundary here. He doesn’t want your criticism; you can withhold it or end your visits. There is no third option where internet strangers say you’re right and you get to criticize him and he can’t ask you to leave.

      1. +1

         1. +10

      2. +1

         Sounds like OP is a monster-in-law and just downplaying it.

      3. +1 this is a great framing of the situation.

      4. This. Telling him your internet friends said you are right does not help anything.

      5. Agree. He holds the baby and uses the tools when you’re not there, and everybody is still alive. Give it a rest in the name of family harmony, OP.

   7. It’s not a question about whether you’re right. You don’t “earn” the right to transgress boundaries because you’re right and others are wrong. If that’s the case boundaries wouldn’t exist! Obviously that argument can be taken to absurd extremes but you get my point.

   8. You are not, no. Because if you continue to speak like this you won’t see that Grandbaby at all. Very curious where your daughter is in all this.

      1. This, absolutely.

   9. As a general rule, I would try not to criticize your daughter’s husband when you are visiting them. I am guessing he feels like this is a pattern, hence cutting short the visit.

   10. Is the newborn his own child? If so, let your daughter handle it. If you are extremely concerned, talk to your daughter in a side-bar.

       In your other example, you could potentially find a lighthearted way to communicate. “Jeez, Horace, if you point that chainsaw at me again you’re going to give me a heart attack!”

       I suspect, however, that these are only two examples out of many. They have asked you to cut a visit short and I think that warrants some self-reflection.

   11. How old is the baby? If she is tiny, he’s probably under a huge amount of stress. Even if it’s true those are the only two things, my mom was suuuper delicate about any feedback when the baby got here, and we appreciated it. Yes, we wanted to know how to hold her head. No, not when she was screaming. And it was better if my mom told me, not him. I’m assuming good intentions and very stressed young parents here. Best of luck, OP.

   12. You are not correct, no. I would also get annoyed if someone said I was holding my baby wrong, and given you feel comfortable with that criticism, I’m going to bet there’s a lot more here that you don’t get.

       They get to set the boundaries they want, and your options are to conform to them or not see them. Period.

   13. https://www.scarymommy.com/distrust-parents-estranged-children

       OP, I’m not saying you’re abusive or that your relationship with your son-in-law is the same as a relationship with a child you raised, but I think this article has some good food for thought about respecting the emotional “pain of your children,” including your son-in-law. And your own child’s reaction to your son-in-law asking you to leave should tell you a lot – if she stood by him, then she has probably felt similar feelings about your criticism. Similar to marriage, you may want to place the relationship ahead of being right.

       1. Disagree with your second to last sentence. If my husband asked someone go leave, I would back him up (unless said requests got completely out of hand): he gets to decide who is welcome in our home, and I don’t throw him under the bus in front of other people.

   14. hmmm. I guess we don’t know the full story, but I could also see this being an example of a man who reacts overly sensitive when being corrected by a woman and calling her controlling because he is projecting. With only the details given by the OP, it could go either way. If he was such a catch though, OP probably would have noticed before her daughter married the guy and had a kid.
       Agree that a bunch of internet friends telling you that you’re right, won’t achieve anything.

   15. For what it’s worth, my daughter says she desperately misses me and is struggling to cope with a new baby plus her husband’s mental and physical health crises. But my hands are tied because of course I left when they asked me to. Those two examples are the only things he could come up with when she asked him why he was so angry at me.

       1. I kind of feel like you added this in later to get us on your side when you didn’t get the reaction you expected, because why didn’t you mention your son in law’s mental health crisis up-front?

          Anyway, having a new baby in the house is an emotionally challenging time for everyone. I had PPD (had to be medicated) and it affected my husband deeply – it was almost like he “caught” it from me. I would have been very on edge about anyone telling me I didn’t know what I was doing with my own child. Even my mom.

          All that said, if you think your daughter is in any sort of danger from her husband you need to act on it now. Get her out of the house by any means possible.

          Short of that situation, stay out of it and give them time.

       2. Ooof that’s a lot. I’m sorry!

          Are you in therapy? It seems like you’re processing your SIL’s multiple crisis in only the way that it relates to you and not how you can support your daughter and grandchild here. I’m other words, you seem more concerned with whether you’re “allowed” to criticize than with how you can help. I’m sure that’s not where your head and heart really are and I really do think talking to a professional will you navigate this time and these crisis without damaging your relationships. Good luck to you and your family.

          1. I asked a question here focused on one single aspect, because it’s one question where I wanted outside crowdsourced point of view. I am mostly focused on connecting with them and being supportive, but I have a pretty good grasp on that (or so both DD and SIL are telling me).

             1. My MIL would avoid mentioning anyone in the family’s mental health in an online comment unless necessary, too. It sounds like you just have a SIL who is really struggling to adjust with the new baby, and maybe asked you to leave because he couldn’t handle holding it together in front of an external party. This is especially true if DD and SIL say you’re mostly supportive and this was a one off incident of anger. My husband and I both struggled at various times with being totally flooded when the baby was born and not being able to take in another word of advice or even questions (I distinctly remember shouting at my mom “TOO. MANY. QUESTIONS!” when the baby was about a week and a half old…). It’s probably not a matter of right or wrong, just navigating very very raw emotions. Best to you, OP, and I hope you can find a good balance.

   16. My mom and I get along pretty well as adults, and when she tried to bring me a blanket to cover up when I was nursing my newborn (away from other people! in a separate room!), I told her I’d nurse any way I want to in the house where I paid the mortgage, thank you very much. Unless the chainsaw is 6 inches from your person, this is not the time for corrections.

   17. Trick question because the answer is IT DOESN’T MATTER. What matters is that his experience of you is so poor that he had to establish and then assert a boundary that he knew would inconvenience you. Since you didn’t talk about him being a generally terrible selfish unreasonable person, it means this was likely after many poor experiences, after much struggle, and after lots of discussion with your child/his spouse. For him to go through that means that, for him, you are a significant cause of stress, worry, and problem.

       You can either take this opportunity to draw your own boundary and risk loss of your relationships or you can figure out how to make things so that he wants you around so you can continue your relationships.

       A word of warning, do not put your adult child in the middle of this. Do not ask them to choose mom or spouse. It’ll not only likely not go well for you, even having the notion should spotlight that you are a significant problem.

       If you care enough about them to be visiting for long enough to be asked to leave sooner, I’d recommend a big apology and even asking to meet with him with a therapist so you can learn more, apologize appropriately, and reset the relationship.

       1. This! It took me months of therapy to understand that it didn’t matter if our boundaries were reasonable, the problem was that my mil marched right past them insisting they were not valid because hers would be different IF she were me. It was a life changing concept: she does get to tell me what behavior I have to accept, that’s my decision.

          I think the op needs therapy but I don’t think sil should have to go with her. I think she needs to understand these concepts on her own.

   18. so, my mother used to do this, and she also didn’t think she was overly critical or in the wrong. it’s actually one reason we aren’t very close.
       you can say whatever you want to, whenever you want to, and to whomever you want to, just be aware that there could be consequences for doing so that you might not like.
       you should talk to your daughter and ask her to tell you how you should approach these things, you should respect any and all boundaries she gives you.
       also keep in mind that you have raised your child(ren), you’re done now. it’s time to step back and let your daughter raise hers.

       1. My mom and I continued to get along but she thought that exclusively breastfed babies were always starving and that it was basically child abuse not to give them supplemental formula, and around 6 weeks to add rice cereal to the formula! I had to keep showing her my babies’ chubby thighs and the fat rolls on their cute little wrists to remind her that they were in fact getting plenty to eat.

          1. My city-raised mother in law is pretty sure my baby is going to die of eating dirt. Meanwhile multiple parents passed us at the beach a couple days ago and laughed and said variants on “oh, the sand-eating age…”. There are so many right ways of parenting!

             1. “there are so many right ways of parenting” yes, this!
                also, I’m sorry, but I laughed at ‘going to die of eating dirt’… my mother once told me my kid would end up with ‘problems’ (she never did elaborate about what kind of problems…) if I let him eat his snack with dirt on his hands…

          2. My mother said the same thing. I admit I was pretty snarky about the whole thing after a while. She made a lot of passive-aggressive “when you were a baby/little/that age” comments that got really old really fast.

          3. My MIL won’t shut up about how she exclusively breastfed each kid until they were 2, and how they were the chubbiest babies around. I get that that’s an accomplishment, but it feels like a criticism when your preemie has a hard time latching, and when you switch to formula at 6 months because you can’t pump enough at work to maintain supply.

             Basically, this isn’t the time to tell people how things were back in the day.

             1. ugh! how awful that you have to hear that. I exclusively breastfed as well, it’s not any kind of accomplishment, it just means breastfeeding worked. my sister formula fed her oldest because of serious reasons, and I told her the same thing. we all have to do what is best for baby, and sometimes that is formula.

             2. Hugs. My sil destroyed our relationship with a social media post about how hard it was on HER that I didn’t breastfeed. She said what’s important is that she works hard to remind herself that I don’t have her education or resources, but it’s still very disappointing for her.

                With the benefit of hindsight I think she has a really small list of accomplishments in life and was just trying to pat herself on the back about something. I’m still happy to never see her again though.

             3. Anon at 5:10 – OMG that is horrifying!

2. Is it just me or are the sleeves really short? Made to look even shorter as its longer in length in the body. Kinda looks like she nicked her papa’s winter blazer.

   1. Maybe? I just assume she’s got really long model-arms.
      I love this blazer – when I pulled out the page I went “ooooh” under my breath. Hope my office mate didn’t hear.

      1. Serious Q – what does “pulled out the page” mean in the context of a website? This is totally foreign to me.

         1. I imagine she meant to say pulled up the page, which is another way of saying opened the page.

         2. Not OP, but meant to type “pulled up the page” which is totally normal

            1. *maybe meant to type

         3. Yeah I meant to say pulled up the page lol.

3. Looking for mini series (or shows with shorter seasons) recommendations. I like both mind candy (Inventing Anna) and “action” crime/medical/military shows that aren’t melodramatic (Mind Hunter, Jack Ryan, Band of Brothers). I also really liked the Dropout. Am also open to comedy and docuseries. I don’t like anything too creepy (Under the Banner of Heaven). I don’t watch a ton of TV, so there’s a lot I haven’t seen.

   I think I have access to just about every channel and streaming service, except Disney + (perks of a roommate who works in telecom!).

   1. Look at British shows for shorter seasons. I’d start with Derry Girls.

   2. Wife and I are working our way through Outer Range and it’s satisfyingly weird. They asked every actor to dial it to 11 and boy they sure did.

      Netflix has a bunch of shows by Harlan Coben – Safe was good. I also liked Retribution but that one was kinda grim.

   3. Strange New Worlds on Paramount+. It’s the new Star Trek series and just a fun watch.

      1. This is SO GOOD. We binged the first few episodes over the past couple nights and are now caught up and waiting for new ones.

   4. Only one season and absolute perfection: Freaks and Geeks; you could do the first season of Prison Break which was mindless fun and then just stop (you won’t miss anything after that); Derry Girls is excellent; I think you’d like the first season of Russian Doll if you don’t mind a full season.

   5. The Queen’s Gambit and Dead to Me on Netflix.

   6. Britbox is full of shows like the ones you’re describing.

   7. Candy. I believe it is on Hulu.

   8. Hacks, Mare of Eastown.

      1. Oh I loved Mare of Easttown! It’s exactly the type of thing I like to watch and I’m from the county where it takes place

         1. I was just talking about Kate Winslet’s perfect Delco accent this weekend!

   9. The best show I have watched in 2+ years is Patriot on Amazon Prime. Two perfect seasons.

      1. Sounds right up my alley. Thank you!

   10. I enjoyed Big Little Lies (season 1 especially) and The Undoing.

       And in a much different vein, I also recommend Younger.

       1. Also, Emily in Paris and Call my Agent (Dix Pour Cent) both on Netflix.

   11. I liked Emily in Paris for a mind candy type show. I’ve also enjoyed 911, 911 Lone Star, the Rookie (all police/fireman shows) and Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul (crime shows). These might be too melodramatic though.

   12. Lincoln Lawyer on Netflix seemed pretty short. I was hooked each episode.

       1. I just watched the Lincoln Lawyer and agree with this recommendation!

   13. The Flight Attendant

   14. Tehran. It’s on Apple TV and from the creators of Fauda.

4. Elizabeth, I love this Blazer! It is long enough for me to wear and it should cover my tuchus when I turn around in court. Some would say it is to causal for me to wear in court, as it works with jeans, but I think that with a grey skirt and a red blouse, I could be very presentable. I will show to the manageing partner, since my existing wool blazers got mothbitten in my closet over the last 2 years b/c I did NOT take them to the cleaner’s before stopping goeing to court. FOOEY b/c I cannot even give them away with the holes from the moths.

   Myrna just got back from her weekend, where she met some nice guys she wants to introduce me to. They are investment bankers, but she says they are older and one of them is already divorced with a 4 year old son. So I figure that guy needs to have a built in mom to deal with his son when he has custody. I am not sure I want to do that now. What does the HIVE think I should do? I know I am to old to bear my own child, but do I want to be a step mom at age 40 to some boy who will likeley not even listen to me? Myrna says the guy has a townhouse in the East 70’s, so that would be nice, if it is in good shape. I do not want to do all the interior decorating if he will not marry me first.

   I would appreciate the hive’s viewpoint on this issue, as I am worried and have not even met him (or his son) yet! Help!

5. I’m wondering if anyone has any advice on giving gentle guidance to my SIL. She is 23, and recently graduated from an undergrad psychology degree. Her parents had a complicated divorce during her degree, she got very stressed and had to take a semester off, her GPA is low. She was looking into social work, but didn’t get into any of the programs she applied to. She has a part-time retail job, lives at home, doesn’t seem to have that many friends (pandemic undergrad seems to have killed all campus social life) and does not seem to have any sort of plan for her future, and looks a little depressed and aimless. She is very sweet, very much the baby of the family and a little immature, but smart and caring and wants to help people/animals. DH is worried about her and so am I – I realize this isn’t my problem to take on, but she and I get along well and maybe I could give some gentle guidance that would be received better than coming from her slightly bossy and ambitious older brother (DH). I’m not sure what to recommend, though – at 23 I was in law school with a very clear plan for the future and had been living independently for 4 years. Would there be any fields that she could work in that could help her transition into social work or just help her find herself a bit while making some money? Overseas volunteer opportunity? Any kind of short program to boost her GPA? This isn’t my area at all. I would also like to suggest therapy but am not sure how to bring it up or how it would be received – she seems to have taken on the brunt of FIL and MIL’s fairly complicated divorce, but FIL and MIL may be offended by this suggestion and no one else seems to think this is required.

   1. Hi there – has she looked into Community Health Worker positions at local clinics/hospitals? They are tough jobs but will give her a lot of hands-on experience with patients/clients and will absolutely help bolster a resume for SW school. Plus, the further out she is from college, the less weight will be on her GPA for graduate school like SW (slightly different ballgame for law school and med school).

      There’s always an option to teach English abroad – I went straight through from undergrad to law school and hated it; I had thought about this as an option to just experience a different place and be for a bit.

      1. These seem good, thanks! I taught English in Tanzania before my undergrad (gap year) and it was such a great experience and also helped me grow up and confront my privilege a little. I can suggest Community Health Work too – I’ll leave it up to her to see if it’s something to pursue, just trying to casually mention options she may not have thought of.

   2. I teach at a uni level and the kids are not okay! Even the ones who managed to get through with good grades just seem so confused and listless. I wonder about something like Americorps? Or some sort of care home work, which whilst really hard going, would help her see whether the social work path is right for her?

      1. My sister did and loved Americorps. She graduated in 20010 with a degree in social work. FWIW she sort of wandered here and there for a while, eventually went back to school and became a speech pathologist. She’s a happy, well-adjusted woman in her mid 30s now making six figures. Some people’s paths are not as straight forward was yours (and mine! I’m your DH in the family! I worried for years she wouldn’t ever figure her ish out!)

      2. Yeah, I was thinking something like Americorps might be good! I feel bad for the grads these days. She went to my alma mater and I had such a fun experience, but hers was so different and not very inspiring I think.

   3. Very few people are over achievers who have their whole lives figured out at 23. I certainly wasn’t one of them. And with the economy and student loans and inflation and COL rising, it’s good she can live at home. Basically what I’m saying is: it’s normal for a 23 year old to be working a crappy job and not know what she wants to do with her life. That’s what your twenties are for! I wouldn’t worry too much.

   4. If you want to get closer to your sister in law, maybe invite her to lunch or a movie and treat her like an adult whose choices are valid? If you don’t, maybe let it go.

      As someone who went straight through law school and now plans on starting a new career after 40 I wish I had floundered more in my early 20s instead of pushing through so that relatives like you and your husband wouldn’t bother me about my lack of ambition.

      1. +1

      2. Just to be clear, I already do that – she comes over to our house a lot, I’ve taken her out several times one on one and have never once pressed her about her plans for the future because it didn’t seem like my place. And no one is pestering her – in fact everyone seemed pretty content to let her do her thing – but now she seems really depressed about having no plan or anything to look forward to, and that’s why we are getting a little worried. If she needs a little time to find herself, that’s fine, I just feel like she needs to do something to get out of her current rut.

      3. +1 million to the second paragraph. Went straight through to law school and left law at 31 for the first exit option I had. New career is fine, but not my passion and I wish I’d floundered more in my 20s and discovered what I really wanted to do before it was too late.

   5. Honestly she sounds a bit sensitive for social work, unless I’m missing something. I have a stereotype that sometimes people major in psychology because they’re struggling and want to understand, and that sometimes people who need and receive help want to pay it forward in a helping profession. And sometimes this goes well. But I feel I would really struggle with social work; I struggle a little just hearing stories from social workers about what they’ve witnessed. Heck I have a hard time hearing stories from K12 teachers about what they’ve witnessed sometimes. And my parents’ complicated divorce didn’t derail my studies or plans when I was in school, so on one metric she sounds more sensitive than me.

      Anyway I wouldn’t be thinking “she needs to go back to school”; she already has a BA that she isn’t using, so what are more degrees going to accomplish? She could be a vet tech or an office receptionist right now, right? As for “gentle guidance,” people may feel this is simply none of your business and that any remarks will come across as pressuring. But I don’t think it’s out of line to ask, “How interested would you be in [kind of work she’s already qualified for]?” and then listen to the answer.

      1. I also think she might be a little sensitive for social work (and I say this without judgement – I think I would be too sensitive for social work too), but it’s the only thing she has expressed an interest in so far. She did mention clinical psychology a few years ago but seems to have dropped it, either because she has lost interest or because she thinks she’ll never get in. She might benefit from some kind of Community Health Worker position as mentioned above to get exposure and see if it’s for her, or she might benefit from doing something completely different like teach English abroad or do Habitat for humanity or just another random job and find a new passion? I agree she doesn’t need to rush into school (and this is where I differ from my ILs in general – DH and his other sister both have medical degrees and firmly believe more school is the answer) so I was trying to gently suggest another perspective. She might like working as a vet dog – she has a dog and is obsessed with him and very gentle with animals. Thanks!

         1. I meant as a vet *tech*, not dog, obviously.

   6. I’d just befriend her and not worry too much about her Life Trajectory right now. It’s only June on the first summer after her college graduation. Lots and lots of people need some space to figure out what life looks like when the only thing you’re doing is getting up every day and going to work. If anything, I’d encourage her to look for an entry-level full-time job (of any kind) that will give her experience and competence going to work everyday and building up some work skills, and gaining some experience in being a responsible-for-herself adult.

   7. I agree – the kids are not alright. Almost every teen and young adult I know is really struggling. The last few years have been dumpster fires and try as we might, we can’t just pretend everything is fine.

      I don’t think career/education is the main issue here. She has a BA and she doesn’t need to find and pick something long-term at this exact moment. I would spend time with her outside a home environment (picnic, dinner, a play, watching a sport, anything) and talk. Listen. No giving guidance, but providing real human interaction to a hurting person.

      1. +1 all of this. My BIL is a middle school teacher and he said that they’re really struggling with getting kids to participate in any kind of extracurriculars, sports, etc. I kind of think the whole world is struggling and it’s just kind of really hard to human right now, and it must seem particularly hard as a kid/young adult who are trying to make life decisions right now.

         My sister went through a similar thing when she graduated from college for several years and it was at times quite frustrating for me to watch. I had several big-sister come-to-jesus motivational talks with her…and they did nothing. my best advice is to bring it up ideas once, let them drop and let her figure it out.

   8. I think being a positive and supportive presence is more helpful than any advice you could offer. Just being a sounding board for her as she navigates the next few years is incredibly valuable. Retail can be helpful for understanding whether or not working with the public is something she wants to do long term.

   9. An undergrad psych degree doesn’t do much but doesn’t mean she has to do grad work—so I’m not sure why you’re focused on GPA. Personally I hope for her sake she doesn’t do social work. It takes extremely thick skin and perseverance at a level most people couldn’t take with no money and sometimes physical threats to safety. Folks I know with psych degrees have gone into HR, school recruiting and test preparation. Another friend is doing something unrelated after temping to perm. You can help brainstorm but ultimately this is on her. And try not to compare yourself. That’s not helping her.

      1. I mentioned the GPA thing because it’s apparently why she didn’t get into the social work programs. I agree that she shouldn’t necessarily rush into it and should probably take some time to figure out the world and what she wants to do. DH is from a medical family and I’m the only one she knows in the corporate world so I just wanted to throw out a few different ideas of things she can do that don’t necessarily require a graduate or doctoral degree. It’s completely up to her if she wants to pursue them, but she seems to think she is stuck in retail limbo forever and it’s making her sad. These suggestions seem good, thanks.

   10. So to build on the community health positions – has she thought about nursing? I know we have a few physicians on this board, but not sure if we have many nurses, but nursing can absolutely give you the ability to care for people and doesn’t always (depending on the area of nursing) require the “toughness” that social workers need (I would be a horrible social worker – so this is said without judgement). Additionally, you often need to take pre-requisites for nursing school anyway, so it would give her the opportunity to demonstrate readiness for the program with her grades in those classes (typically through a local university or community college).

       CNA (Nurse Assistant) programs are pretty easy and have low bars to admission – it’s a very low paying job, but if she’s living at home and wants to see if nursing might be for her, it’s a good way to test that out.

   11. My sister was sort of aimless for awhile after getting her undergrad and graduate degrees in the sciences. She taught at a school on a remote island for a year, and then did some temp work (completely unrelated to her degree), which led to a job offer working for a major NGO. Temp-to-hire could be a good fit for the moment while she sorts through what she wants to do, as I think it was pretty easy and the hours weren’t bad at all, especially in a remote role.

       1. My aimless friend found a career she loves in insurance (really! loves it!) and that she’s been very successful at by switching from retail to temp over a decade ago so I think temp is a great idea.

   12. I would just be there for her to talk to, not try to tell her what to do. Ask her questions and help her figure out what she wants to do rather than tell her things.

   13. Thanks, everyone. I’m hearing what you are saying about listening and not pushing. I think what’s tricky is that we have tried to listen – I know I have, and we spend a fair amount of time with her. She’ll talk about all kinds of things, including personal things, but completely shuts down or brushes it off whenever her future comes up. I get the feeling that she is really struggling to picture anything at all, might struggle with self-worth (my GPA is low, I’m not good at anything) and naturally be a little passive – I’ll just hang out at mom’s and work at my retail job forever. Which could be fine except she also seems sad about it. So the goal would be to gently inspire her to put herself out there a little more, although I realize this needs to come from her and might take a few months of doing what she’s doing and being a little down for her to get the impulse on her own. I will try to be a supportive, positive and non-pushy figure, and casually mention a few of the ideas listed here if it comes up in conversation, but not push anything specific.

       1. One thought. It can help to feel wanted or needed. So if you can honestly say that you know someone who is looking for a front desk person, or someone to do some clerical work, etc., that can help get around the self-esteem issue where applying to a job may feel hubristic, selfish, or doomed. If it’s framed as her doing a favor for someone else, I’ve seen that tap into people’s “helping” instinct and help them get unstuck. (And usually it is a genuine favor since jobs arranged this way in my part of America usually don’t pay competitively, but it’s probably still a win/win.)

          1. Not OP, but this is great advice.

          2. This is great advice, thanks. My company is super short-staffed, she could definitely be a receptionist or an assistant if she wanted to. I like the “helping” framing, I’ll try that.

       2. also for the people saying she is too sensitive for social work, there are SO many different kinds of social workers. some work as clinical social workers (basically as therapist), others do direct care work and others do more program management. some work at non-profits, others at schools or hospitals. i do think an admin type role at an organization that does the type of work she is interested in, or honestly, if she likes kids, (and you dont earn a lot of money doing this), but working at a preschool. AmeriCorps could also be a great fit. There are SO many different types of roles. My sister did Americorps and went on to get a dual degree in social work and public health. Her GPA might have kept her out of grad school at this stage, but she doesn’t even need to really include it on her resume. I also don’t know where she went to college, because all centers are definitely not created equal, but she could reach out to her college career center.

   14. Emma, my younger sister sounds a lot like your SIL, but she is a few more years out of school. It’s hard to watch a bright and lovely person seem to struggle with building a fulfilling life. Some comments seem to suggest we’re being control freak sisters/SILs, but I don’t think this is a condescending question for you to be asking.

       I agree with advice below to treat her like an adult but at the same time, I do try to offer suggestions of paths I think she might explore. FWIW I do the same with peers (for example, in the course of a bigger conversation, maybe offer a suggestion like “have you ever thought about pivoting to X? seems like something you’d like!”).

       I agree with suggestions for Americorps. My spouse (who had a so-so GPA after completing his BA in psych) did a year and had a good experience.

       1. Thanks, I like the suggested wording and appreciate the validation. I’m definitely trying to walk the line between treating her as an adult but maybe opening up her horizons a little bit – I think the grown-up world can seem a little hostile and confusing to a new grad, but there are plenty of things she could do well and enjoy while she figures out her next steps as needed. I don’t have siblings but am reasonably close to DH’s family, especially his younger sister since she lives in our city and watches our dog regularly + often comes by for coffee and a hangout with me since I work from home.

   15. A random thought on the helping profession thing: private adoption agencies? They don’t pay all that well, and my experience indicates there’s no experience required other than a vague interest, but if your SIL is good at managing paperwork and likes the idea of helping children connect with parents, it can be rewarding. (Must be very good at paperwork, though.)

       1. must also be willing to exploit poor pregnant women in crisis but i guess that’s a lot of people

          1. Quite the comment. The adoption universe is a big one, and infant adoption is only one segment of it. I was thinking about adoption agencies that specialize in older children and/or international adoptions. Older child adoption – be it kinship, domestic, or international – is a complicated process that typically involves governments and lots and lots of paperwork…hence the need for caseworkers – the job I was thinking of for OP’s SIL. Infant adoption is often handled by specialized private attorneys working between the two parties, minimizing the need for caseworkers like I was referring to.

             Also, as someone who cares about the ~100,000 children in foster care in the US who are eligible for adoption and the hundreds of thousands of children around the world eligible for adoption by US citizens, and as someone whose only means of becoming a mother was through adoption, get the heck out of here with your narrow-minded misconceptions.

             1. I deeply encourage you to look up the voices of actual adoptees and hear their perspectives on how awful adoption is.

             2. I have looked up the voices of adopted people on how awful adoption is, but their views didn’t always match up well with the perspectives of the adopted people I know personally (who don’t have a rosy, romanticized view of adoption either — but I think sometimes people romanticize the alternatives).

             3. I’m the Anon at 1:33 and the Anon at 2:45 is not me.

                The profiles of children available for adoption today do not have the same profiles of children available for adoption 20+ years ago. Today’s children are overwhelmingly 1) children taken by government authorities from parents because of the parents’ unsuitability – addiction, abuse, etc., or 2) children surrendered because of complex medical needs. The idea that there are all these healthy, gurgling infants waiting to be adopted from “poor, pregnant women in crisis” is simply not an accurate reflection of modern adoption – domestic or international – for American parents. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/10/adopt-baby-cost-process-hard/620258/

                As the Atlantic points out, in 2014 (the last year data is available), there were about 18,000 domestic, private, infant adoptions out of 4 million children born. Their data is from the National Council for Adoption: https://adoptioncouncil.org/article/adoption-factbook/

                Compare that number to the 66,087 children adopted domestically out of foster care after their parents’ rights had been terminated. (Same cite.)

                For public adoptions, the average child adopted out of foster care in the US is 5 years old: https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/documents/cb/final_age2016.pdf

                And 83.8% of children adopted out of foster care have special needs – that’s defined as a history of trauma or mental or emotional needs; being a child over the age of 9; or being part of a sibling group; in addition to conventional medical needs. https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/documents/cb/special_needs2012_2016.pdf

                For international adoptions, there were just 2,971 children adopted by Americans in 2019 (the last normal, non-covid year). 74% of them were over 3 years old. 54% of them were over 5 years old. Barring immoral actions that are the rare exception and not the norm, children are ONLY placed for international adoption after every possible home-country scenario for a family has been considered for them. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/Intercountry-Adoption/adopt_ref/adoption-statistics-esri.html

                I get that you’ve heard bad things about adoption. Or maybe you’re an adoptee yourself and believe you would have been better off with your family of origin; maybe you would have been. Maybe you were coerced into giving up your baby for adoption in the past; I cannot imagine the hard road you’ve walked and I grieve with you. But for today’s children who have no other option because their birth family cannot care for them, adoption gives them a family.

       2. I worked for a labor union in law school doing doing adoption paperwork for people adopting the step children grandchildren and nieces and nephews already in their custody. It was the only happy job in the whole family law department.

          1. I did this kind of work in our law school clinic (in addition to regular family law divorce stuff) and this was FAR better!

   16. Hi I was your sister in law and I made it out! Like literally I graduated with a 2.5 and was a complete mess because my parents had a horrific divorce and my dad refused to fill out my financial aid paperwork so I just… stopped going to class? I don’t know. I can’t explain it other than I was clearly in a depression and had no help. Anyway – I got an administrative assistant job at a local elite university. This helped me figure out what actually being a good student looked like. I enrolled in their open access liberal arts masters degree and got all As, which wasn’t too hard, but it allowed me to have some kind of proof that I could do the work when I later applied to a more rigorous masters. All the while, I was getting a tuition break because I worked there. This is definitely not the fastest or cheapest path but it got me towards a really cushy well paying job and two elite degrees, and I’m pretty sure every person around me now would be absolutely shocked at my 2.5 undergrad gpa.

6. Responsible dog owners – help me out, is there anything that can be done here?

   Live in a single family home, fully fenced in back yard, no front yard fencing of any kind (our town doesn’t allow it), no HOA. New neighbor moves in immediately next door last summer and has 2 Frenchies (IDK my dog breeds, they tell me they’re Frenchies). These dogs get out of their yard far too often. I’ve seen the guy chasing his dogs around the neighborhood before (while I was indoors) and when they walk their dogs they do it off leash by having him/his wife run and the dogs follow.

   So this weekend I’m outside watering plants, back turned and I happen to stand up and turn to see 2 dogs running at me. Of course my scream startled them (as I maybe thought my yelling would make them go away – lol – and then I yelled for the neighbor to get his dogs hoping he was outside, he wasn’t). These dogs proceed to them take their positions with one by my garage, one by the front of my house and are barking at me, hissing etc. Fortunately I was near my front door, MIL hears the commotion, opens the door to see what it is, and I can back away by going inside.

   Few min later I see neighbor wandering about calling his dogs, I’m inside my door – too shocked to get into it all but tell him – don’t allow your dogs off leash like that and he’s like “oh I have friends over, they didn’t latch my yard gate, they got out.”

   Yesterday again – I’m returning from jogging and see a dog in my yard from a distance; fortunately another jogger sees a dog alone and goes up to a few houses to find whose it is and return it. But then with the dog secured, I go up to the neighbor and say – look I wasn’t just being a busybody complaining about your dogs while standing indoors yesterday, they cornered me yesterday, they’re out again today, you need to keep them on your property. Again his response is – oh I had landscapers over today, they didn’t shut my gate. He says he’ll do better but I’m not believing it.

   Uh? Checking your own doors and gates can’t be anyone else’s responsibility here and this has happened multiple times. And FWIW MANY dogs in our neighborhood, I don’t see it happening with anyone else? I think he thinks – I go get them within 5-10 min so NBD, but reality is in 5-10 min they’re running onto 5-6 properties on 2 streets, can corner people etc.

   WWYD? My DH is the most passive man on earth so his solution is don’t go out when they have people over or their landscapers have come bc that’s when people are in and out of their yard and not properly shutting their gate. But DH says this as someone who never goes outside anyway, whereas MIL and I are both people who like to go outdoors to work out, garden.

   FWIW I’m sure this sounds extra to many of you, but DH, MIL, and I all grew up in Arab Gulf nations where having dogs in the home is unheard of and the few people that do are usually the uber wealthy where the dog has a full time caretaker by its side; so we have zero dog experience here. I know this is the US and dogs are part of normal life but to me there’s a big difference between petting a friend’s calm dog with my friend right there vs. turning around to see dogs running at me.

   Also – are Frenchies dangerous? And those ultrasonic devices people use to repel deer etc. wouldn’t work to keep them moving past my yard, right?

   1. With a neighbor like this your best option is probably going to be adding some low hedging or something on your lawn to discourage them from going onto your property. People that are like this generally don’t tend to ‘get it’ so I wouldn’t expect a lot of improvement from him. Maybe an airhorn like people bring to sports games or similar noise deterrent to use if they bother you.

   2. Frenchies? Did you google this? They are 20lb fluff nuggets.

   3. I’m sorry that happened to you! I like dogs but find dogs off lead really unnerving, especially if they run at me or if I’m with my son (who HATES dogs after a few experiences with bad owners). I agree on some sort of hedging, but also, sadly, this might be a problem that sorts itself out in a few weeks when the dogs go really far and get lost. Hopefully that will scare them straight?

   4. You are not wrong for asking your neighbor to keep his dogs on his property or leashed but the idea of two Frenchies “cornering” you is quite hilarious to me.

      1. Agreed. I cannot stand off-leash dogs and irresponsible dog owners infuriate me to no end. But, Frenchies are like a foot tall? Are we sure these are Frenchies, because what?

         1. +1. I had the same thought! (I am sorry OP…it really did make me laugh though.)

            1. Yes! Sorry OP, not trying to laugh at you at all as any dog can be dangerous, absolutely!! And it can be startling for a dog to run at you. I’m starting to suspect that this neighbor is lying about the breed though, because as someone noted below – those are expensive dogs to let run around at risk of getting hit by a car.

            2. OP here – IDK dogs at all so I can only go off of what he said they were. I assume they’re Frenchies but all I know about dogs is like big friendly Golden vs. small loud breed and that’s what these are. FWIW he has money so I don’t think he cares that they are expensive. Like he bought the house at the peak of the market, spent months gut renovating every corner of it so obviously paying rent someplace else until they could move in, luxury cars etc. This is a regular middle/UMC NJ suburban neighborhood so these aren’t huge homes or anything but he has money.

            3. Literally type Frenchie dog into google. Is that what they look like?

         2. I am going to give OP the benefit of the doubt that she is really scared of the Frenchies, though it made me laugh too, but I think it is like a rooster, for those who have been around one. They are so aggressive and keep coming after you, they can be a bit scary even though they’re small (about the size of a Frenchie, come to think of it)

            It doesn’t seem like the dogs are actually dangerous if they’re not a threat to the friends coming over or the landscapers coming by.

            OP I don’t think your neighbor is suddenly going to get responsible, so I think this will likely continue to happen. What you can do is stand tall, put your hand out like you’re saying stop, and say NO in your firmest voice. Every dog knows the word no. You don’t have to be friends with the dogs, but you do need to establish that you’re above them in the pecking order, and that they’re on your property rather than the other way around.

            1. I love dogs but not irresponsible owners who have horribly behaved animals. Being somewhat rude to loose dogs, especially when the owners can see and hear, is very effective. You may earn a reputation for not liking dogs but if it gets the owners keep their preciouses off your property, it works. Note I am not advocating you be abusive, just loud and assertive, yelling in a robust voice stuff like “Bad dog! Go home! Shoo! Get out of here! Scram!” while chasing them out of your yard with a hose on full blast.

      2. I think this is different for those who grew up with ZERO exposure to dogs in countries where maybe 1% or fewer of households have dogs. Dogs that others find non threatening can be scary even if small because they’re barking loudly at you, won’t leave, and stand their ground if they’re startled by you, you scream etc. I’m not blaming OP at all because frankly I’d react the same way. But yeah it’s not like being cornered by German shepherds thank goodness.

         1. Agreed. My neighbor is a refugee and clearly terrified of our pretty chill, friendly and smallish dog. I stopped to chat with her once and she told me in her home country, the only dogs are feral and rabid and will likely attack you. It’s made me more mindful of keeping our dog on a short leash when people are uncomfortable. I’m also the biggest dog lover but once had an unleashed pit bull running straight at me in the barn (where I was cornered with no easy exit) and had a moment of complete panic. I choose to put my hand out and say a friendly “hi doggy” and the dog excitedly licked my hand, but it could have gone another way, so I understand feeling powerless in the moment.

      3. It is funny, but as someone who is freaked out by dogs pretty easily, even little dogs barking at me is enough to put me on edge. Little dogs can still lunge and bite! Maybe they were on the bulldog side of French Bulldog but either way, I feel for you OP.

         1. Yep, little dogs can bite, too. I don’t care how “cute” or “friendly” your dog is, they can still bite and scratch and I absolutely don’t want them running up to me unexpectedly.

            OP, don’t let the comments here about how the dogs are little and you shouldn’t be afraid discourage you. My 6-foot plus boyfriend had some bad experiences with dogs growing up and he still flinches even when a small dog runs up to us. I just get pissed and stomp my foot at them and say, NO, in what I hope is a no-nonsense kind of voice. They usually go away.

            And yeah, if you are gardening, keep a hose handy and fire away!

         2. Yes, absolutely. I grew up with English and French bulldogs, and while they’re mostly roly poly clowns, ANY dog breed can be a bite risk given the wrong circumstances or owners. I was bitten once while on a run by a little Maltese and it left a decent scar. As a dog person, I didn’t really understand how people could be afraid of dogs, but now I get it. Let’s not downplay her fear and the potential for risk.

      4. Maybe just me but I wouldn’t take the neighbor’s word for it that they are Frenchies. Maybe they are but he could just be saying that when he realized OP doesn’t know dogs at all. Meaning don’t assume that strangers’ dogs aren’t dangerous just based on the fact that that breed isn’t dangerous; you have know idea how those dogs are being raised/trained at home. Sounds to me like they’re probably being ignored.

         1. Yeah that’s why I asked if she googled frenchies. I think they are not Frenchies at all.

            1. I wonder if they’re boxers. I have repeatedly had issues with different boxers that decided the area I was occupying, such as my own yard, was their territory and behave aggressively towards me because I was in “their” territory. I know the breed tends to be loving to and protective of their owners, and I’m a big fan of dogs (childless dog owner who treats my pups more like really short roommates than dogs, and remembers the neighbors’ dogs’ names better than the neighbors’ names) but my personal experience has made it so that I get an adrenaline rush when near a boxer.

               Even if they are really Frenchies, although I am tickled at the idea of attack Frenchies, I can certainly see how OP is frightened by them if she is not accustomed to dogs, and all dogs should be under someone’s control and not running loose. No one should be frightened on their own property especially. OP I’m going to suggest a super soaker type toy water gun. Most dogs purely hate being blasted with water and will avoid at all costs.

      5. Our neighbors had a dog so small that it would come into our yard by walking through our decorative fence and it bit my daughter twice, requiring stitches. We had to file a complaint with animal control to get them to keep it leashed bc it was aggressive.

         Little dogs can also bite and are often more defensive than big dogs. We had a golden and the other side had a Newfoundland. The only fear from those dogs was the swaths of shedding hair. The snitty little twit would bite anyone it could.

   5. Dogs don’t hiss.

      1. That’s what makes me think they are Frenchies! I have a friend with one and it makes this wheezing noise that could be called a hiss when he’s really worked up.

   6. I’m sorry. This neighbor is a crappy dog owner. I would be mortified if my dogs repeatedly escaped and even more so if they scared someone! Any dog can be dangerous, and it’s perfectly reasonable to be scared of dogs who are growling or barking at you especially when you did not grow up with dogs around.

      As much as I love dogs, I’d start calling local animal control when the dogs are loose and to report them being aggressive towards you. They haven’t bitten you so they aren’t going to be collected and euthanized at this point. This person isn’t going to change their behavior based on any comments you make and you should be able to go outside to without fearing you are going to get cornered. Hopefully, animal control will get annoyed enough by your neighbor breaking the leash laws, etc., that they will address it with the neighbor directly and it will have more impact.

      1. This is like calling the police or code enforcement on your neighbor. You should assume it will escalate and be prepared to move away. They will 100% know it’s you calling.

         1. Yeah, don’t do this.

   7. Any dog can be dangerous in the wrong circumstances but in general, Frenchies are not considered particularly aggressive. They can be very vocal though! And I’d be startled by any dog running at me in my own yard. If they surprise you again, try to stay calm (I know it’s hard), ignore them as much as possible, and slowly walk back into your house. If you yell or run they’ll likely chase you.

      Your neighbor is a cruddy dog owner if his dogs are getting out every week or so. They’re going to get hit by a car or even stolen, if they’re really French bulldogs which are $$$.

      In your shoes, I would make a point to talk to the neighbor every time the dogs were in your yard. If you’re friendly with your other neighbors, I’d ask them to do the same if the dogs are getting in their yards as well. Calling Animal Control would be the nuclear option, but it’s still an option.

   8. So I love dogs but that is a development in my adult life – due to a dog attack when I was a toddler, I had a full-blown phobia of them until I got therapy in my teens. Given that, I very much understand feeling uncomfortable around dogs and I myself still react negatively to unleashed unknown dogs running at me. You are not being unreasonable – this is bad dog owner behavior and isn’t something that I would be okay with even though I own dogs and can befriend almost all dogs.

      They do make ultrasonic repellers that are supposed to work on dogs, but I don’t have personal experience (we do find they work on deer). Motion-activated sprinklers can also help – or you can just keep a loaded super-soaker outside and spray them with it. That being said, it may take a call/complaint to animal control in your town.

      Frenchies are very much generally not dangerous (and are quite small), but I would look at pictures online to make sure they’re Frenchies. And any dog can be dangerous under the right circumstances or if raised in a way that encourages aggression. What you’re describing doesn’t sound like friendly exuberant dog behavior, FWIW – that usually that involves wagging and either trying to jump up for petting or trying to get low to encourage petting or playtime.

      1. You know, that’s actually a good point – I don’t think OP should put up with unleashed dogs, but maybe learning more about dog “signs” and behaviors would be helpful for her to be more at ease. To know when a dog is trying to be playful vs. vicious might give her more confidence in shooing the dogs away.

   9. Your neighbor won’t change, and anything you say will probably have no effect on him. That said, you’re not helpless. My dog trainer recommended “Doggie Don’t Device” on Am*zon for dealing with off leash dogs that run up to my dog. It just makes a loud buzzing noise that dogs don’t like but it’s very effective. If the dogs get in your yard use the device and they’ll back off. If you do it a couple times they’ll probably stop coming to your house altogether.

   10. Maybe it’s just me but I’d call Animal Control or the non emergency police number [that’s who deals with this in my town] EVERY single time. I mean like I’d be that Karen that would call if I’m indoors perfectly safe and saw the dogs wandering by. This will annoy Animal Control and/or cops enough that the neighbors will get some contact from them and that’s likely to solve this problem more than neighbors saying your dogs scared me, or another neighbor bringing the dogs back or whatever. But with small dogs that apparently cross streets etc., isn’t this problem also going to take care of itself as there are cars, there are other leashed dogs that they’ll start barking at and THOSE owners knowing how dogs are to be handled will be like WTF and read your neighbor the riot act if their dogs are threatened/scared by a strange dog?

   11. So I think you need to split the problem. First, and I say this gently, you should get more comfortable around dogs – a lot of people here have dogs, and you’re going to run into more of them than you might want to. Also, frenchies are tiny and not typically scary, so he likely doesn’t get your fear.

       Now, that said, this isn’t your fault at all. It’s not unreasonable for you to expect him to keep them in his yard (these are tiny dogs – like this shouldn’t be hard). I would just be gentle but persistant. I can see how he would roll his eyes at your reaction, though, so I think you’ll have far more success not talking about being cornered by two small dogs and instead being like hey man, they keep getting out, maybe get a better latch?

       1. OP here – I KNOW I need to get more comfortable with dogs as DH and I realize they are family members in the US. We are ok with that – really; we have American friends with dogs and when they have us over for BBQs etc., many of them knowing our discomfort will say – come over, we’ll put the dogs in the house the whole time and we don’t insist on that. Like we want to be around their dogs with our friends around because that’s what will get us used to them. But I still see that differently as I know and trust our friends; their dogs don’t run at us, they are in a tail wagging good mood etc. I think that’s different than a stranger’s dogs running at you when you least expect it.

          Other problem here is MIL who lives with us. She’s 80+ years old and at this age she isn’t getting used to anything. She won’t be around ANYONE’s dog, friend or not. So whatever techniques I can use to get used to this, she can’t/won’t; I suspect the solution for her may be to only hang out in the backyard as we see if we see less of these dogs. She does like to go for walks to stay active and is home alone all day so I don’t want to encourage her to never go outside (and she’s stubborn so my encouragement means nothing lol). I think I may get her that Doggy Don’t device and have her carry it in her pocket.

          1. Yes, definitely, I’d worry about her having a fall in an effort to get away from a dog.

          2. Ohhh that changes the advice, I missed that your MIL was in her 80s. I’d give your neighbor one more chance – tell him that you’re worried your MIL could get hurt. A decent person would be mortified and rightfully concerned about a lawsuit. If it doesn’t stop then start calling animal control.

          3. Ah, okay I think I missed the MIL part. For the neighbor, I’d explicitly say that – and leave out the cultural side (his response might be like, this is the US, get over it – not helpful, but is what it is) – I would say hey, my MIL is 80 and terrified of dogs – know your pups are sweet and adorable (who cares if you think this, but dog owners think their dogs are the best), and I really need to make sure she doesn’t run in to them on her walks – can you please check the latch?

             I think on the getting comfortable with dogs side of things – I’d pick a friends’ dog you really like and try to really spend time with it – throw the ball if it likes fetch, rub it’s belly if it likes belly rubs, etc. Try to build a bond with one dog, and I really think it’d help make other dogs less scary. But I also get why a random dog running at you isn’t ideal (and your neighbor sucks, I’m more saying you’ll have other neighbors with dogs in the future, and getting used to them will help broadly).

   12. So your neighbor isn’t a great dog owner, but I’d take a different approach. I’d get to know those specific dogs (go over and say you don’t have experience but want to get to know them since they get out, see if you can feed them treats and pet them so they know you). Then I’d get neighbors cell and text when you see them out.

       1. You’re a much nicer person than me or you live in a very different neighborhood. OP’s mileage may vary here but no way I’d do that. That gives this irresponsible owner the idea that of course EVERYONE loves his dogs and is happy to pet them and give them treats and when they text us oh look they are just looking out for their safety. Um no. You chose to get dogs, they are your responsibility to look after fully, not the entire neighborhood’s responsibility. If I wanted a dog, I’d get one.

   13. Maybe carry a dog whistle or a spray repellent with you in the yard? Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001AZMH46?psc=1&ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_D9JECPM646CPETSXN1JW It’s a whole lot cheaper than installing an invisible fence.

       1. Taking spray repellant to two frenchies seems like a huge over-reaction and borders on cruelty to animals. This is an issue with the owner and should be tried that way first. I personally would try nicely the first few times to tell him you are concerned of the risk to your mom, the mess to your yard and that they can be hit by a car. Then I’d threaten use of spray (but not actually use) or to call animal control.

          1. Especially don’t use stuff like a spray repellent on a little dog breed known for having breathing problems, when the dog is merely barking at you and not lunging at you. That’s a complete overreaction and you could end up killing the dog, which likely to get you arrested and/or sued.

       2. There are also cans of compressed air that you can put in strategic places in the yard. They are motion sensitive and will startle creatures that come near the cans by blasting air. This worked well to deter certain cats from coming into our yard at night. We had to put them out consistently for a couple of weeks but the cats eventually got the idea. It’s literally just air, no chemicals, pepper etc.

   14. Wow bad dog owners. I mean dogs getting out of the yard should happen like maybe once in a decade. Twice in one weekend and numerous times through the year with the owner then walking around the neighborhood calling for Fido is ridiculous. I feel like with owners like this problems tend to take care of themselves – dogs get lost, hit by cars, in fights with another dog, animal control gives a few warnings etc. and then owners like this often decide the dogs are too much trouble. Hope they don’t have kids because if they can’t doors and gates closed for dogs, I also have visions of a toddler wandering up the street alone.

       In the meantime do what you need to do OP. Plant a low prickly hedge on that side of the property line (sure they can run around the hedge and come up the sidewalk but dogs learn and they may just start escaping in the other direction or running across the street instead). If they come up on you and you have a garden hose, spray them. Otherwise stomp your foot on concrete with no/bad dog/go home. Get one of those doggy don’t type devices to carry with you and for MIL when you are out in the yard. Call animal control to complain if it happens again. And if this offends your neighbor, good he needs to take the hint that his gates/doors are HIS problem and he needs to upgrade whatever is necessary if he can’t watch his pets.

7. I’m like 75% through the 3rd Neapolitan book by Elena Ferrante – it’s one I just wasn’t in the right headspace to read for the last few years, and now I cannot put it down. Wow. Just…such an honest portrayal of the complex feelings of womanhood, motherhood, and a great depiction of a deep, complex friendship. I’d love to hear other’s thoughts.

   1. I loved that series! Ferrante’s most recent book was great too.

      I really value the depth of her look at their friendship over a shared lifespan, and also how she follows peripheral characters from childhood to their 60s as well. One of the themes that stood out to me is the trajectory of a working-class kid who pursues higher education and a professional career, and how this changes their relationship to their home community and family in a sometimes difficult and painful way.

      There is an HBO adaptation that they called My Brilliant Friend, if you weren’t already aware.

      1. Yes! I started the HBO series last year but wanted to finish the books first – did you enjoy it?

         Good point regarding the working-class to professional trajectory. There are parts in the book where I can completely understand Elena’s perspective, but also her friends/family who are left in Naples and the reality they have to deal with.

         1. Yes. It seems like Lila is an example of talent, even genius, that is frustrated by gender and class circumstances, not to mention trauma and mental health issues.

            The series is still ongoing, and the current season is the book you’re reading now! So you’re clear without spoilers if you want to watch the full first 2 seasons. Yes, I do like it a lot. It’s very true to the books, often visually beautiful, and helped me recognize more subtleties to the plot and characters that may have gotten lost when I was reading. Especially since everyone has a long Italian name with 3-4 variations, it can be hard to keep track of who is related to who, who are couples or ex-couples, and so on!

            1. Oh now I both want to catch up on the books and watch the series. How fun.

            2. I’m sold. Also, love the way you wrote about Lila. So well-written!

         2. I have a response in mod.

      2. I love all of Ferrante’s work. This personal essay also reminded me a bit of the experience that My Beautiful Friend captured
         https://lithub.com/reyna-grande-on-giving-her-kids-the-childhood-she-never-had/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Lit%20Hub%20Daily:%20June%207%2C%202022&utm_term=lithub_weekly_master_list

   2. I loved every single one of those books and was fully engrossed in them while reading.

8. I had a strange interaction at a work event that’s been on my mind since it happened several weeks ago.

   It was a drinks and dinner with a vendor at a bar restaurant. This was actually the first time I’ve been on the client side of a vendor/client event.

   I was talking with Coworker (a man) next to the bar and a woman from the vendor came up to us. Neither I or Coworker had met her before. She introduced herself to Coworker and very intensely shook hands and started a conversation with him. I tried shifting slightly and catching her eye. I was very much still standing within the sphere of conversation.

   I don’t think I’ve ever had anyone just not acknowledge my presence.

   There was no eye contact, nod, handshake, greeting…..no acknowledgment I was there. I felt so awkward. I had to edge around her to extract myself from where I was between the bar, her, and Coworker. I ended up introducing myself to her about an hour later and she was polite, perhaps a bit disinterested.

   I know how to engage socially, make small talk, and how to avoid being crowded out of conversations. I am intensely shy, and have to put alot of energy and effort into being engaging and hiding all the shyness and awkwardness that I feel. And I think I do it pretty well. But this was so jarring and out of line with all the social norms that I know?

   If there was someone I really wanted to talk with and they were already talking to someone – I’d acknowledge the other person and introduce myself to them, at the very least….especially if I new that both those people were on the clients team.

   1. Definitely very rude, but unfortunately fairly common in my experience (I’m in academia). I either introduce myself to the rude person or just walk away, depending on the situation and how well I know the person I was originally talking to.

      1. I was also thinking “this sounds just like academia.”

   2. Yes, this sounds rude on her part and not your fault. If I had to guess, she’s interested in him or even somehow trying to sell him on something. So you were in the way.

   3. People are weird. Part of life is acknowledging that and moving on.

      1. Yep, and realizing it’s not you, it’s them.

      2. +1

   4. wow, she was rude. Your Coworker ideally should have saved both of you by either (a) saying “have you met Jane?” to make it obvious you should be included, or (b) escaping a pushy vendor by making an excuse for both of you.

   5. I think your coworker also should have introduced you. To be totally honest, I would have introduced myself at some point in the initial conversation. I just assume both parties are socially awkward and/or clueless rather than rude in situations like this.

   6. Yeah, she was super rude. Ideally your coworker would have introduced you, but I’ve also inserted myself into these situations and been like “Hi, I’m Jane. I work with Bob and run the teapot team.”

   7. First of all – this is really strange on her part. She was being really weird.

      This happened to me distinctly one time when DH and I were young and dating and we ran into a girl who clearly was into him and had been for years – she completely ignored me for like 10 minutes while having a full interaction with DH. She was actually working and managed to somehow serve me while not speaking or acknowledging me – I still don’t understand fully how this happened. That was like 17-18ish years ago, I still kind of marvel at it. Sadly for her, I felt very secure in my relationship with then-BF-now-DH.

      Much more recently, I’ve also watched sales guy in our industry do this to people in other vendor’s booths at conferences. Like he walks into someone else’s booth, starts talking to customer without acknowledging other people standing there, and I’ve watched him walk the customer out of the booth. It’s so extremely unprofessional. He did a similar-sh thing to our company and my boss called him on it by asking him directly how he could help him and made him acknowledge him. But it’s really weird how the sales guy keeps doing this.

      All that said – it’s not you OP. These people are weird.

   8. There are so many women that think if there’s a man in the room, he’s in charge. Internalized misogyny. I used to fly business class just about every week and I’d say 1/3 of the flight attendants assumed I was the wife of whatever man was seated next to me and I received next to no service compared to the men. Same with going into meetings with one of my direct reports who was male. People, women included, would direct all of their questions at him and talk over me.

      Down with the patriarchy.

9. it’s only the first day of summer and I’ve got a serious farmer’s tan — what is the best way to even it out if I want to go sleeveless occasionally?

   1. Be better about sunscreen.

   2. Sunscreen and self tanner. You may want to splurge on a professional sunless tanning spray if you have an event.

   3. And also? Just lean into it. Nobody cares, I promise.

10. I have a Cuyana crossbody medium zip-top bag that I adore that they no longer make. However it can feel a bit like a black hole and it is slightly narrower on the bottom than the top. Any recs for an insert for organization?

11. Where do people buy wallpaper these days? I do not have the budget to spend $1,200 on a small room, which is what I saw on some of the designs that caught my eye while browsing. Maybe the universe is telling me I should paint isntead.

    1. I like Spoonflower – you can pick your design and wallpaper type (they also do fabric and home goods). I’ve gotten some really gorgeous patterns, but recommend ordering a sample first to see the design and colors in person. The only downside is that it takes them a while (6 weeks?) to print and ship. Price varies per design but is generally a lot cheaper than Farrow and Ball or other trendy designs.

12. I think there have been a few threads lately, but I’m seeking your best moving advice! This will be my first interstate move (4 hrs away) and our HH consists of two adults, one elderly dependent and a cat. Any and all input much appreciated. We’re moving from rental to rental (both townhomes), with some overlap in leases fortunately.

    1. I’ve had the experience of trying to be economical and regretting it. I wish I had thrown more money at this. I feel moving is disruptive and effortful enough even with Cadillac service professional help!

       I haven’t had the experience of spending a lot of money and not getting what I paid for, which I was anxious about, but now I wish I had taken that risk.

       1. +1 throw money at it!

    2. Outsource as much as you can afford. My bf tried to put things in storage to avoid paying double rent for 2 weeks but it wasn’t economical. Start packing as early as possible, unless you are hiring professional packers. Liquor stores have boxes with dividers that are great for wine glasses, etc. See if a friend can watch your cat for a few weeks until you get settled and see if your elderly relative can stay with another family member for a few days. Label everything clearly and be sure to have things like TP and paper plates for the last and first few days.

    3. Minimize your stuff immediately so you don’t waste energy on stuff you don’t want anymore. Also, Hire movers, hire packers if you can too. Decide what’s worth money versus stress for you. Pack the fragiles and sentimentals in your vehicle and drive them over, find a place for the elder for the moving day so they aren’t in the middle of it. CRATE THE CAT. One adult in each rental to conduct the process (if there are movers), set up as the items arrive. Get big stuff set up immediately (furniture placement, boxes of items in each room where they belong, etc.) Set up elder’s space completely as your first task. Then set up cat’s space completely. Then bring elder in. Keep cat crated until the majority is unpacked (set up their main room first then close them into their main space with food water litter in the meantime), then let them roam when all is set up. This minimizes discomfort and fear for elder and cat and gives adults a system of order.

    4. Agreed, throw money at it. Combined with if you are busy, just order the pack of moving boxes, tape, paper, bubble wrap online and have it delivered to your house. 3 options of same sized boxes that can be labeled and happily handed off to a broke 20 something when I’m done made my last move so must easier. I will say on my last move we also saved a lot of time because I had pretty much everything staged and ready to load in one area when they got there. This was the visual planner in me needing to see the progress and what was going, but it also made things move very fast. Also, this one feels obvious, but get rid of stuff. Even doing a purge I still find myself doing another purge a month after moving.

    5. I always get beds set up right away so at least when we are exhausted at the end of the day we have a nice place to sleep. Then I get the kitchen unpacked. Then move on to the other rooms. Our last move, we lived with some boxes in our living room for close to a month as I slowly unpacked things. In the past I would have never done that, but it was nice to not rush.

    6. 1) Hire movers. Good movers. I know it’s not a cheap service but it does make a world of difference
       2) Determine what you’ll need your first night in the new place, pack it in a way that’s easily accessible so you’re not frantically digging out things like your laptop, toothbrush, PJs, etc. Ideally, this should go in your car so that if the moving truck gets lost or delayed somehow, you still have what you need.
       3) Last time I moved I used color-coded packing tape that was labeled things like “bedroom 1,” bedroom 2,” “kitchen,” “living room,” etc., and it did help to keep the boxes organized BUT the tape itself was flimsy, so I ended up using it in addition to regular packing tape.

    7. Honestly pace yourself and listen to your body. Schedule some downtown right after the move. I suffered an awful neck Injury when we moved and I never lifted anything I thought was heavy; I was just bone tired and emotionally wiped.

    8. Pay more for the better movers.

       Label boxes by room, but also, a crib sheet on each one (like a post-it note taped over with packing tape) that actually has the contents. So rather than “OP bedroom” alone, you’d know it’s “clothes from top two dresser drawers” or “extra bedding and nightstand picture frames” so you can tackle unpacking accordingly.

       Bring anything small and valuable with you.

       Before you unpack literally anything else, make the bed well enough to sleep in, and set up at least one bathroom (e.g., shower curtain and toiletries and TP) – when you’re exhausted later, you really won’t want to have to keep unpacking in order to crash!

    9. I always recommend a “First Night” box – the things that, at a bare minimum, you need to have to get thru the first 24 hours in your new place. Hand soap, hand towel, shower curtain liner and rings, roll of TP for each bathroom. Set of sheets, comforter, pillows for the beds you sleep in. Cup, plate, set of silverware for each person. Bandaids and ibuprofen for scrapes or sore muscles. Chlorox wipes just in case you come across something you want to give a quick wipe-down. A box of favorite cookies/other shelf-stable snack in case you just need a quick “something” to munch on.

       And each person should have a suitcase packed like you’re going on a 3 day trip — so you’ll have your toiletries and changes of underwear and etc handy even if it takes a day to get your dressers and medicine cabinet set up the way you like. AND, make sure that a pair of scissors or a box cutter gets packed in a suitcase .. the “First Night” box is not helpful if you can’t get into it.

    10. Hire packers if you can. Well worth the money.
        If you pack yourself:
        – Start early with stuff you don’t use very often or are not using this season.
        – Declutter/ Marie Kondo as you pack.
        – You can often leave stuff in drawers.
        – Pack books in small boxes. Ask your local liquor store for free boxes.
        – Use color-coded tape for each room. Save enough to put a piece of each tape outside the correct room in the new house. This lets the movers know quickly where to put the boxes. (My parents once wrote the room on the outside of the boxes, but the movers either couldn’t read English or couldn’t read at all. The boxes just got randomly deposited throughout the house, rather than put in one spot.
        – Have a “first day” box with toilet paper, shower curtain, phone chargers, box cutter, sheets, etc.
        – Write just the box number on all 4 sides and the top of the box. Keep a spreadsheet of box number, short description of what was in it, the room it went in, and the tape color. It’s faster to write just the number, and the spreadsheet will help you figure out what to unpack first, and identify if anything is missing.

        Board your cat until you’re done moving. In each of our previous moves, we tried to keep the cat in a certain space with the door closed, but either we or the movers left the door open. Then the cat hid so well and for so long that we thought he’d run away. He came out like a day later when he got hungry. It would have been less stressful for everyone if we’d just boarded him until the movers were done.

        Schedule a move-in cleaning before you arrive.

        I prefer to unpack quickly. The last time we moved, I took 1 day off work for the move itself, then spent Saturday and Sunday unpacking. It was a lot of work (85 boxes, plus what we brought with us in our cars), but we had everything except our china unpacked by the time we went to work Monday morning.

    11. I labeled each box with a different color post it size sticker (blue/yellow/red, etc) depending on the room where they should end up. I then posted a large sheet of paper that color on the door of the room in the new home. It was MUCH more efficient than labeling as Kitchen/office/bedroom and having the movers get the right things in the right place.

        Unpack. ASAP. I find that trying to decide what cabinet you should do bowls vs plates can suck me into a rabbit hole of developing a “sophisticated” plan that never happens and I am living with boxes forever. Just pick a place for the things and put them there. In a month, you’ll move some of it around anyway when your plan doesn’t work like you thought, but it is easier to react to whether the cleaning supplies go in the laundry room or the hall bath when they are in one place than to sit and weigh the options endlessly.

        If you have a guest room/bonus room/garage, extra closet, put the things you don’t know what to do with in there. Then you can get your basics settled in and feel like you live in a real place and sort through the complicated things as time and energy allow, and you don’t have to step over boxes to sit on the couch to catch your breath.

        Post on FB marketplace that you have free boxes as they get emptied. Someone will come and get them from your house. They are gone and out of your way, they get used again and you don’t have to figure out how to recycle. All wins.

        And I agree. Throw money at everything you can.

13. Any recommendations for long weekend destinations outside of DC (no more than a 4ish hr drive) that wouldn’t already be booked for the summer? I’m trying a plan a short solo weekend away this summer. The beach is the obvious answer but the close ones all seemed booked and I’d be opening to something else as long as it feels like a summer vacation.

    1. I know you’re looking to drive but there may be cheap deals in the Caribbean for a short weekend away.

    2. The Vienna (VA) Day Trips Facebook group may be relevant to your interests (it’s private but I think easy to join).

    3. Charlottesville, Wintergreen, or Lexington, VA

14. Random question – parents are older and live in a suburban small town that kind of still functions like it’s 1980; people don’t feel the need for security alarms cameras etc. Well lots of the homes have changed hands recently bringing younger families and while that’s a nice change of pace, there are some preteens doing out of control preteen things around the neighborhood now. This weekend was brazen though as they put firecrackers inside people’s mail boxes and in one case between the storm and front doors of one house; that senior citizen couple woke up smelled smoke and ran out and are very lucky there was no house fire started.

    Cops were all over the neighborhood after and some of the younger owners have offered up camera footage to cops – so cops can see how many kids, what directions they went in etc. Cops have said sometimes just having a camera is a deterrent to these things as younger people look for those instinctively.

    My parents have no idea where to start. They have a home security alarm but it’s some local company that may or may not do cameras. I know a lot of people here mention Ring/Nest etc. but can someone just give me a primer on what to do if I want to do this? My dad is of the age where he’ll be like – I don’t want to deal with this – so he just won’t; like I asked him to call his alarm company two days ago to ask if they do cameras and he still hasn’t. Mom def wants cameras but is like I don’t get this tech stuff, dad has to do it – except dad is like I’m old and tired and don’t care. I’m an NYC apartment dweller myself where this kind of thing isn’t necessary so I know nothing about it and goggling just shows me cameras are sold at Best buy. But can someone be hired to install them – who? Must it be a DIY project that I drive down for? And then does the app show you live shots around the house on your phone?

    The point of this would be just to have it to know who is walking up to the property especially at odd times during the day/night.

    1. Since they can’t/won’t deal with set up themselves, why not use one of the alarm companies rather than a DIY camera situation?

       1. She mentioned that in her post.

          1. Then it sounds like she should just let her parents be.

             So many posts lately from adult children wanting their parents to change, which is always unlikely to be successful and likely to cause a lot of frustration and heartache.

             1. Normally I’d agree with you but it depends on how old the parents are here. More and more parents are insisting on staying in their original homes instead of downsizing to apartments, and sure while they have to deal with their own homes, don’t underestimate how much they can’t handle tech. This is something that’s easy for a 40 year old kid to handle or even a teenage grandkid and very challenging for an 70+ year old parent. When parents get old and frustrated if something is too challenging for them, many just won’t do it because they don’t know where to start. I don’t think it hurts to spend a few hours on this, when they clearly have expressed they want security devices.

    2. I’m not sure that no alarms equals 1980. I’m in my late 30s and only just bought my home security system, the Simplisafe alarm system. It also connects to Alexa. It was exceedingly easy to set up. I downloaded the SimpliSafe app, and it walked me through connecting each sensor, which I stuck onto the windows and doors. It also came with a camera. The kit was about $300 on AMZN. I have a cat and dog, and I selected the “cat” option (you can choose from cat, dog, or no pet) and I haven’t had any false alarms in the month I’ve owned it.

    3. We have a Eufy camera that doesn’t require any sort of paid subscription to work. You mount it on the doorframe, connect it to Wifi (you will def need to help non tech savvy parents with this), and then you get an app on your phone.

       You set up the zone in which you want the camera to record motion. It saves a few days’ worth of video at a time before the older videos are deleted to make space – so if you realize in the morning something happened overnight, you just scroll through the footage to see if it shows anything useful.

       You can customize when you get push alerts or not – we live in the city so immediately turned off the “a person is near my door” alert bc my phone would be blowing up every 10 seconds, and only get push notifications if the doorbell rings. For a quiet suburb when almost no one ever approaches your door, you might not mind getting alerts for more activity.

    4. I’m not old but not young and have observed that my local law enforcement both talks up surveillance/cameras and still doesn’t do bupkus about petty property crime like this.
       I’m not keen on the idea of cameras everywhere, particularly the kind that are easily connected to the internet, footage shared, etc. Because the users don’t tend to be very tech savvy, they often default to sharing or making things more public than they intend.

       1. At this point, saying you’re against cameras is like saying you’re against the internet or electricity. That ship has sailed.

          1. I do just fine without them – why add to surveillance culture just because everyone else is?

          2. Nah.

       2. The nice thing about cameras is you can watch your stuff get stolen. I don’t think it really helps police *find* it that much/police typically have more pressing matters to attend to.

          1. +1

    5. Do they have good WiFi at the house? If so, the Blink cameras are inexpensive and pretty close to plug and play. Through the app they can be easily set for motion detection. I’ve got one on every entrance to the house and one inside aimed at where my dogs hang out and am very pleased with them. I’ve had them about five years now and have had zero problems.

15. For those of you following the saga of our semi-feral pandemic kitties, Felix and Oscar: We went on vacation for two and a half weeks last month, and the status as of when we left was that Felix still wouldn’t be touched but would occasionally jump up on the bed to say hi, and Oscar wouldn’t jump on the bed but appeared for scratchies every morning, which he would only accept while I was in bed and he was on the floor beside me. When we got home, they both seemed a bit more friendly, as though they’d missed us. (Note: This is two years in.)

    Well. This morning in the wee hours, I awakened to find Oscar on the bed beside me, and he decided that today is the day he becomes a Lovey Kitty. He let me scratch him and pet him and kiss him, and he slept on my chest and at my side, and it was pretty great. (I tried not to laugh when he got too close to the edge of the bed and fell off — and he came back for more.) And some time later, not to be outdone, Mr. Felix decided that he would spend a bit more time on the bed as well, if not, perhaps, receiving strokes and scratchies.

    My husband slept through the whole thing, but I am thrilled. Yay!

    1. Awwww, how lovely!

    2. Aww…I’m not a cat person but your post made me smile. That sounds like a lovely morning and great progress :-)

    3. My cats are always more friendly when I’ve been gone for a week or so, so this makes sense to me. I think they take us for granted until they are alone (meaning cat sitter visits only) and realize maybe it is better with us around lol.

    4. Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

    5. That’s too cute!

    6. This is so great! My husband had a semi-feral cat for YEARS before she one day decided to craw on top of his chest to be petted. But only if he was laying down and wearing a light colored shirt. She did it to me just once and apparently I was not to her taste, so it never happened again. She was such a funny cat. He met her at a shelter where he was volunteering. She’s lived there for years because no one would adopt her; she generally refused to come out of her cage and was a bit of a scratcher. But she loved to reach her paw into adjacent cages to steal some food. Even in our house she always used her paw to eat – she’d dip it into her wet food and then lick it off her paw. I miss her crazy self. Our semi-feral kitten likes to be petted while I am sitting on the toilet or at one of our desks, and when we are sitting on the couch. He also loves to sleep under the corner of the rug.

    7. My 10 1/2 year old cat, formerly feral kitten, loves to be petted but has never, ever agreed to sit on anyone’s lap. It’s like too much commitment or something. Just in the last 2-3 months, after TEN YEARS, he has decided to sit in my lap. But only if I’m sitting in one particular chair.

       Unfortunately, with no practice in lap sitting, he is all flaws into my legs, but I hold my breath and go with it.

       1. Oh my gosh, that is amazing! You, too, Anonymous at 1:22 p.m.!

          Kitties, man.

    8. Thanks for sharing! I have two similar semi feral kitties who have taken years to warm up but it is so rewarding when they do!

    9. Is it bad that I think this was the best part of your vacation? :) How cute!

    10. Our neighbor’s cat had kittens and my kids brought one home. She loves to be inside of my youngest daughter’s shirt and cries if she takes her out haha. It is the cutest thing ever.

    11. Yippee! That’s wonderful! I have a feral who decided after something like 4 years with us that she wanted to sit on my lap. But only if I’m sitting on a certain part of the couch with a blanket on my lap. One time my husband sat in that same spot and she sat on his lap, but after a few minutes she was like, wait a second, something isn’t right here …. She now sits on my lap every morning if I sit in that spot on the couch with a blanket covering my legs.

16. Ugh I don’t want to be an accountant any more. I went from public into a private role where the goal is to eventually progress to controller and I am so bored. I really appreciate that accounting is a stable career with a solid income but that is the only thing I like about it. At least in public accounting I had work friends to keep me going, but in my private company the accounting department is small and not work friend material, and the rest of the company mostly works remotely. I just feel so disconnected from my work, there’s no sense of meaning to keep me motivated. Does anyone have a success story of turning an accounting background into an interesting career path that they would be willing to share?

    1. I don’t know anything about accounting, but what about working for a company you find interesting? I have a high school friend who’s an accountant for a local music venue and is always posting concert pics. The accounting part might still be boring but you get to be a part of something fun.

    2. Can you go back to public accounting? I’m not I public accounting and while I don’t love my work but I do enjoy working with my team.

    3. It sounds like this role isn’t right for you, and you’re burnt out. I know I’m suffering from burn out when my work isn’t interesting to me. Maybe look into a nonprofit role? I’m in nonprofit fundraising, and I really value a great COO or accounting/finance colleague. Our current VP of ops is a CPA.

       1. Or . . . accounting is just a boring job.

    4. I am also in accounting and so bored. I did public audit work and am now in-house. I wonder if that is just how accounting is. I’m ok with doing the actual work but there is so much down time. I don’t know where to go from here.

    5. I went from Big 4 to industry and was bored out of my mind, so I returned to Big 4. The work can be stressful and the hours can be long, but it’s also incredibly challenging and stimulating.

       This isn’t a story of turning accounting into a different career path, just a story of finding the right fit within the accounting profession.

    6. Feel free to email me at malkiyyah13 at the mail of G. I now work in accounting/tax tech after a long time in public and then an industry job. It’s fun, interesting and different every day.

    7. What about teaching? I work in a university and it’s so hard to find accounting faculty.

17. Please talk to me about coloring your hair. I’m 38 and just now getting a number of visible greys around my temples in addition to the random one off greys I used to pluck. I have dark brown hair that I’ve never colored. The greys are a few inches long and really stand out, and they’re also curlier than my wavy hair and sticking out at odd angles. It looks especially silly when I put my hair up in a pony tail and have a halo of grey baby hair curls.

    I’ve been looking into balyage or highlights to blend the grey instead of single process to cover them up. I have memories of my mom getting single process coloring done every month or 2, with a clear line of demarcation when it grew out which I’d prefer to avoid. If I got balyage done, what is the upkeep commitment? How often do you get it done? How does it look growing out? I appreciate all tips and tricks. This is such a foreign area for me.

    1. I don’t have gray hair, but I got balayage done a couple of years ago and it could basically grow out and look good at any stage. It didn’t go up to my roots anyway, so it just sort of gradually lowered where the highlights were in my hair.

       If you’re trying to color grays though, you may want to get it done more regularly since you’d probably want the color going to the roots to cover the gray.

       1. Adding on – balayage is usually a lot more expensive than single color and maybe won’t cover all the gray.

    2. I have dark brown hair with a lot of gray. I do single process color every 5 weeks. If I go 6 weeks, I touch up with brown hair powder in the part on the last week. I don’t think you can avoid a frequent trip to the salon once you start outgrowing grays. I only do single process color because of both time and money. It’s an annuity, and there’s a limit to how much I want to invest here.
       I tried outgrowing it over Covid, and was grayer than I thought and was unhappy. Clearly, if you rock some natural level of color you’d be easier to manage.

    3. I have blond hair with the beginnings of grays showing and I do standard highlights as they go to the scalp. Balyage will not cover grays at the roots as the color begins halfway down the head.

       I would get a consultation with a hair colorist and see what they recommend that is low-er maintenance (compared to regular single process). If you just have a few grays you can probably start with highlights every few months, provided you don’t mind grays showing slightly at roots in between.

    4. I have balayage face framing to cover and blend greys. I think it works quite well. I used to go every 3 months and at nearly 50 with lots of grey/white I am closer to needing to go every two but it blends well enough that I can stretch it.

       1. To clarify – my colorist covers the roots and then does balayage but the balayage highlights do, I think, help to blend and extend the time between visits.

    5. Chiming in to give perspective from the other side of all that. Late forties, and I stopped coloring my hair about 6 months ago and am letting my salt and pepper color grow in cold turkey. I started coloring my roots when the grays became more obvious about 6-7 years ago. My natural hair is thick, and straight in a medium-ashy brown and I wear it shoulder-length. For a few years I got the roots touched up every 4-6 weeks, (the salon called it a touch-up because it was just the middle part and front hairline to temples), and then every other time, so about every 12 weeks I got a whole head root touch up and bayalage highlights and a cut. It was expensive and time consuming, and at times my hair felt dry. I switched to box color to save money. I started with products from a beauty supply company and that did not go well. I had overprocessed roots. Then I switched to an online company that mixes custom dye, eSalon. It cost a little more than the store bought dye, but the results were better. I used eSalon products for root coverage and bayalage highlights for a few years but every 4 weeks when the roots would show I would dread having to refresh my roots and the color. Whether professionally done or from a box, would always have an unflattering warm tone after a few weeks. Over time I realized no amount of toner was getting rid of the warm brassy color on my hair, and decided at the beginning of this year to just let it grow out and embrace my natural silver highlights. So far I like it! It will take 2 full years to fully grow out (there’s a saying, “a year to the ear”, which refers to how it takes about a year to grow your hair to the ear, and then another year to get to shoulder length). Things that have made this decision easier: 1) I used to work in a corporate office environment where all women in leadership were beautifully groomed and you never saw gray hair on the women, only on men in leadership. Now I work from home and nobody cares, and 2) a pandemic happened, I have survived it, and I just don’t care as much any more. I’m focusing on physical and mental health, and for appearance, things like fitness, sunscreen, and basic grooming. It’s very freeing. But it took being in this place mentally to feel comfortable with my grays.

    6. No experience with grays (yet) – but here’s my two cents:

       When I was doing balayage on long hair, I could go quite a while between colorings – like 4-5 months. I wasn’t doing anything too dramatically different from my color, just lighter, and so it grew out pretty well. I think if your base is basically your natural color, and then the ends are just a little lighter but not dramatically, you can go quite a long time.

       I have shorter hair now and have been doing blond highlights because I got bored of balayage. It does grow out with a line but the highlights make it much less noticeable, since it’s not all the hair.

       My mom’s hair is more applicable – while she just had some greys but still a lot of darker hair, she did highlights all the way up for quite a few years. She’s not into super high maintenance, so I would bet she did this 4-6 times a year. Then a few years ago, when it became clear she had more white hair coming through than dark hair, she stopped coloring all together and now it’s a really pretty silver, and you can see it will turn all white. It’s quite pretty and now she doesn’t have any coloring maintenance.

18. Weird question – how many of you would consider yourselves conventionally beautiful / pretty? How do you feel like it’s affected your life?

    I used to feel like I was pretty conventionally attractive, before WFH. I.e., would usually get hit on a few times at parties, had people remark frequently on how life must be easy for me because of my looks or I worried too much considering. Since WFH, I’d say I’ve become solidly plain / average. Frumpy clothes / no makeup / hair up. I’m trying to figure out whether it makes sense to start re-investing time into my appearance, considering the time/cost considerations that go into it. Is it worth it? Or is it better to just stay average looking? I feel like I got more weird unwanted attention before that I don’t miss, but I also think I felt more valuable from the way people treated me (maybe this was a hollow illusion though…).

    1. I honestly think I’m very pretty. People out and about don’t seem to agree! But I think I’m gorgeous.

    2. I consider myself more conventionally attractive than the average women. Not by much but enough that people comment on it. The biggest advantage is that, obviously, it makes dating and social situations much easier. But the less obvious, more impactful advantage is that it has an effect on how cooperative people are at work. I work with a lot of men and the attitude difference between them + me vs them + other men or them + “average” looking women is noticeable to me. It’s never inappropriate and most of these guys are married but the unfortunate fact of life is that men are just kinder to attractive women even if they personally have no interest in them.

    3. I am just average looking, maybe pretty when I’m made up with my hair done, but I had a great figure that got me plenty of (sometimes welcome) attention. I had a great gardening life. Over the last five years, I’ve put on a lot of weight and my hair has greyed (a good look on many, not as much on me). I like the THOUGHT that if I lost weight and maybe colored my hair, I could get some of that attention. But also, I feel more comfortable in my own skin than ever before. I feel kind and compassionate and steadier than I was then. I wouldn’t trade me now for me back then.

    4. My SIL is absolutely gorgeous and so is her husband. It’s a little like Jon Hamm’s character on 30 Rock – the gag is that he’s so handsome no one ever tells him “no.” Obviously not as extreme, but there’s a bit of wheel-greasing that goes on for them.

       I’m not conventionally attractive. It bugged me a ton as a teen but now I don’t care. I look how I want to look, wear what I want, do my hair and makeup the way I want to.

    5. Hmm I do think I’m pretty. More like classically pretty than hot though. Both guys who are hitting on me and the aunties at church compliment my smile, so thats definitely one of my best features. I don’t photograph well, but I think I look good day to day. A good haircut helps a lot too. So thinking it through I have like a nice face but I actually look pretty if I put at least some effort into it.

       People say they experience pretty privilege or the opposite, where people treat them differently based on how they look. I’ve never felt like I am usually treated particularly better or worse due to my looks.

    6. This is a weird question. It doesn’t sound like you are considering a big permanent change like plastic surgery or even Botox/fillers. Makeup is something that can be adjusted daily based on your plans. If you’re going to a party, obviously dress up and wear makeup. If you’re sitting at home working all day, who cares what you look like! Of course looks affect your confidence and how many times you get hit on at parties. I don’t think there’s much to really invest outside of cosmetic procedures. Also, this may be a good time to dig deeper and realize you’re worth more than your looks.

       1. Not every question here has to be based on some deep-seated psychological problem. Sometimes questions are just questions!

          1. She’s talking about how she felt more valuable when she got dolled up. Basing your value on your looks is a slippery slope, unless you’re a model of course.

    7. So this isn’t about beauty in the structure of one’s face, this is about whether or not it’s worth it to put effort into one’s appearance, and that’s a question only you can decide. I feel better when I look nice. I can be quite attractive when I’m done up, but if I’m wearing “frumpy clothes, no makeup, hair up” like you wrote, of course I’m not a looker. How do YOU feel about your appearance? If you were only dressing up for others and now no longer want to, that’s valid. If you dress up to feel like the best version of yourself, that’s something else entirely.

       1. you put this way more succinctly than my inner narrative did!

          Do I find that I’m treated better when I’ve made an effort with my appearance, thereby modifying my looks from a “conventional average” to “conventional reasonably attractive”? Yes. Does that mean I always make such an effort? No.

       2. My mother always said that men can’t tell the difference between a beautiful woman and an average looking one who is very well groomed. (My husband insists they can tell but mostly don’t care.) I miss the way I was treated when I took better care of myself and I’m working on it. Ymmv.

    8. I don’t consider myself attractive, really – I used to have *really* low self esteem in this regard but it has improved a bit so I guess I now consider myself ‘average’.

       My mum brought me up in a way where she never made anything about my appearance – always focussed praise on my achievements and schoolwork/creative skills. This totally made sense – she didn’t want me to grow up thinking my value to her rested in my appearance – and I still cringe when someone at work is asked about their family and they say something like “I have two beautiful teenage daughters” as if that’s their daughters’ greatest attribute. BUT I still grew up in a world where everything outside my family was telling me that attractiveness was currency and I think I subconsciously concluded that I must be unattractive, because otherwise I would have heard otherwise. (If that makes sense).

       It definitely affected my relationships and the way I moved around in the world through my late teens and up into my mid 20s – I always friend-zoned myself because I assumed that guys didn’t find me attractive, for example. I was in a place where I was striving for appearance-neutrality (as an extension of body-neutrality, and valuing my body for what it’s able to do, like training for a half marathon).

       I spent the 18months/2years inside really finding joy in dressing in a way that makes me happy (as well as having a long distance relationship with an old friend… and then a short fling with a man I met at summer camp), which really helped me feel that I AM more attractive than I previously thought. It’s definitely easier to feel good about my body when I have a boyfriend showing me he likes me regardless of the things about it I don’t like!

       I don’t know if that stream-of-consciousness helps?

       1. Oh hi are you me? Just add in a stint in my mid-twenties of sending thirsty photos to guys I’d met online so they’d tell me I was hot (cringe). I’m working on unraveling the self-loathing I have towards my looks and body in therapy but it’s HARD. So no advice but I do find this topic fascinating.

          1. Oh my gosh I’m so glad someone else feels this way! I mean, I’m not glad at all, because it’s rubbish, but it’s nice not to be alone.

       2. Same reaction to my parents’similar strategy!

    9. If you are conventionally attractive, it really shouldn’t take much effort to resume looking cute (and you haven’t mentioned aging or weight gain as a factor). Buy a few cute outfits, and do a bit of makeup in the morning.

       If it required a full face of makeup and elaborate hair to look attractive pre-covid, then you probably weren’t “conventionally beautiful.” And I don’t think it’s worth extreme efforts, no.

       To answer your question, I think I was conventionally pretty before I had kids. Not a knock-out, but a solid 8. Two kids, 4 years, and 15 lbs later, I’d say I’m decently attractive for a 30-something mom, but not the type of person you’d say “wow, she has 2 kids and looks fantastic!” But it doesn’t bother me much.

    10. I have a very conventionally attractive body (very tall with super long legs, slender, hourglass figure with big b00bs) and an average to unattractive face (not great skin, bad teeth despite braces as a kid and retainers, and just generally not a very symmetrical/attractive face shape). I’ve had the experience many times of a man approaching me after seeing my body from a distance and then nope-ing out once he sees my face which was…not great for self esteem when I was single. But I managed to find a very hot husband who thinks I’m beautiful so who cares what strangers think.

    11. Probably above average, but least attractive in a family of stand out beauties? I have some medical issues, and I think they make my eyes look tired, face look puffy, etc. Extreme hourglass figure probably a mixed blessing (hard to dress professionally, attracts attention but not respect).

    12. Gosh this feels so vain but here goes: I wouldn’t say beautiful, but I’m conventionally pretty now and was a really, really pretty teenager. I was skinny then and have really even features, but I was a huge nerd with low self-esteem as a young woman. My parents always emphasized smart over pretty (because pretty doesn’t last), but also placed a lot of emphasis on outward appearance (dressing nicely, grooming, etc.). To be frank, I’m sure being pretty helps in small ways – I’m not so pretty that the rules get bent for me, but pretty enough that I don’t immediately get seated at the back table next to the toilets in an empty restaurant because “the other tables are booked.”

        That said, I grew up in a super-white suburb where conventional prettiness was being blonde, blue-eyed, and having a huge chest, so I got rated (2 out of 4) in the high school slam book because I didn’t have those attributes (to quote Mad Men, I’m more of a Jackie than a Marilyn). Then I moved to LA as an adult, aka the city where every small-town beauty who wants to try acting seems to live. While there are plenty of unattractive people in LA, the median attractiveness level is spiked by the entertainment industry, so I have plenty of opportunities to feel unattractive.

        FWIW, I feel better/more confident when I’m wearing something nice – not fancy, just jeans that fit and an unstained t-shirt.

    13. I’ve always felt that I’m very pretty/as conventionally attractive as it’s possible to be given that I’m not white. That has enormously increased my perception of my own attractiveness. but otherwise, very.

    14. I’ve been trying for a while to figure out how to answer this… in summary, so much gross attention. I was very shy, am very smart in a math-oriented way, and conventionally attractive with an apparently very alluring figure. Men treated me like their jerk-off fantasy come to life. “Comic book character” was how one boyfriend described me. Older married men all but said that I was the younger model they were considering trading in for. Both men and women acted like my ambition was inappropriate – guess I was supposed to just snag a rich guy?

        People often said that I should have “shown off” my body more or played up my looks, and I’m like… for more gross attention? So more married men can grab me? So some other horndog can spend five minutes pretending to act like I am a person before asking to sleep with me? Pass.

        The few occasional nice moments – walking down the street and some man on his cell phone said “Sorry, Charlie, this redhead just based by and wow!” – didn’t really make up for how gross it all was.

19. Workplace drama question.

    I have a coworker who vacillates from acting like she is my BFF and wanting to gossip nonstop, to coldly polite but distant when work forces us to interact, to flat out catty, juvenile trolling where she weaponizes access to information and becomes very territorial with it. This changes on a dime and she is very careful to be on good behavior whenever anyone else is present. I have to interact with her regularly and frequently. She often goes out of her way to create petty drama and then when she is called out on it she flaps around demonstratively trying to be seen as the bigger person for smoothing over the tension. I’m like “B, there was no tension until you created it!”

    I really dislike this. I prefer to have cordial working relationships with all colleagues, sometimes deeper friendships. I have a good, long, solid reputation as a calm, thoughtful presence. It’s like this person is jealous of my reputation and my few close friendships, realized she won’t ever earn similar ones on her own so is instead trying to mimic being the peacemaker while constantly throwing daggers in the background, or trying to get me to fly off the handle and stoop to her level. How do I deal with this? She seems to know exactly how close to the line she can get to avoid any actionable complaint, but I am more and more exhausted dealing with her. I wish we did not have to interact at all.

    1. Ugh, that’s horrible. Minimize interactions with her at all costs, do not act like a friend when she tries to. Maybe try to call things out as they happen. I.e., “Suzie, it seems as though you have concerns or feelings you’d like to communicate. Can you send me an email itemizing them?” Try to avoid and maintain distance as much as possible, even when speaking to her and don’t engage in the BS. It’s not you!!

20. When I first started working after college in the late 80s my workplace required suits or blazers, and I couldn’t afford 5 workdays worth of suits, so I went to Goodwill and bought a couple of men’s blazers and wore them like an oversized blazer look (ill fitting but also very Pretty in Pink late 80s). Today’s pick reminds me of that.

    1. I tried on every blazer I could find on Saturday and they all looked like this! Unfortunately I prefer a more ‘schoolboy’ cropped/nipped blazer (I’m shaped like a guitar and prefer not to obscure my waist) look for work so none of them fitted my work style. Lots of gorgeous dress styles in H&M but all the wrong colouring for me sadly – great for people with spring or summer colouring!

       1. I never have any luck shopping for work clothes in the summer. Everything sucks except for weekend/resort wear.

          1. I heard multiple other women complaining about having to buy smart summer workwear while I was trawling around the shops! There was basically nothing smart available last summer or over autumn/winter, because of the pandemic, so lots of people are struggling to fit post-isolation bodies into clothes that they don’t like the fit of.

       2. There are still some shorter blazers on Next online, but not in store, if you’re willing to order some in and send back whatever doesn’t fit.

          I need to show my waist like you, but I’ve found some tricks with the oversized ones are to roll up sleeves (or have them shortened) so that they hit at 3/4 and your writs showing. I’ve even done some back darts where I nip in but the blazers don’t, and I make sure that there are no pocket plackets hitting at the wrong place – I just put the plackets in the pockets if they are too low, it makes a big difference.

          1. I found a Whistles one on eBay!

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