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Thursday’s Workwear Report: Fleur Bloom Lace Top

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A woman wearing a white plus size lace top and denim pants

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This white lace top from Vince Camuto would be a summer workhorse for my wardrobe. Lacy fabrics can be a little bit controversial for work, so this is obviously going to be a know-your-office situation, but this one looks pretty good to my eye.

I always love to add a little texture where I can, so I would layer this under something a little more formal, like a blazer or a crewneck cardigan.

The top is $74.25, marked down from $99, at Nordstrom and comes in sizes 1X–3X.

Vince Camuto also has a very similar top in straight sizes, available at Nordstrom and Belk in different lucky sizes.

Sales of note for 3/26/25:

  • Nordstrom – 15% off beauty (ends 3/30) + Nordy Club members earn 3X the points!
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale + additional 20% off + 30% off your purchase
  • Banana Republic Factory – Friends & Family Event: 50% off purchase + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 50% off select styles + extra 50% off all sale
  • J.Crew – 30% off tops, tees, dresses, accessories, sale styles + warm-weather styles
  • J.Crew Factory – Shorts under $30 + extra 60% off clearance + up to 60% off everything
  • M.M.LaFleur – 25% off travel favorites + use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – $64.50 spring cardigans + BOGO 50% off everything else

356 Comments

  1. What’s a good work bag that can fit workout clothes that not a Lo and Sons? Preferably faux leather, leather, etc. and around $250 ish? Needs to fit a 15 inch laptop!

      1. I have the Dagne Dover leather tote – it’s a beautiful bag but it is so heavy. When I recall lugging my gym clothes and shoes around in it it’s painful to think about. Their non-leather material might be lighter. I think the Away bag someone notes below would probably be better.

        1. Agree. I loved to look at mine, but it was far too heavy to use. I only needed to carry from the house to car and from the in-building parking to the elevator. I consigned mine after developing shoulder pain from a few months of use.

        2. Also agree. I bought one a few months before the pandemic, and I liked it but noticed it was heavy. It was tolerable without too much stuff in it. Now I carry a laptop back and forth, and it is SO heavy. It’s causing neck and shoulder pain and I may have to give up on it, sadly. It’s a beautiful bag and the quality is great. I might just use it for court or meetings where I want to present well, but carrying it daily with a laptop is tough.

    4. I’m using an Away bag that coordinates with their carryon suitcase. Not leather, but love the bag.

    5. https://a.co/d/8HXrMMb

      I just bought this for a trip when my usual Cuyana seemed too heavy due to a shoulder injury. It’s very lightweight when not loaded. It fit my 15 inch laptop, and all my stuff like my jewelry container, my make up bag, my notebook, my wallet, keys, all the usual stuff. I carried my liquids in it as well because I was checking my roller for that trip (damned shoulder injury, I never check.)

      I also used the side pocket for my refillable water bottle and it fit fine. I wasn’t sure what to expect from a $30 bag, but it seems very sturdy. No issues at all on the trip.

      It would fit workout clothes, rolled up, not sure what you’re doing with shoes. Wearing them?

    6. I like my Caraa Studio tote which converts into a comfortable backpack. It’s a bit above your budget but they have sales pretty regularly. It’s light and fits my gigantic laptop. It has a separate hidden shoe area.

  2. Did I miss something with this new registration wall that’s impacting the ability to see posts? I don’t really want to subscribe just to read this blog.

    2. it pops up for me occasionally if I’m reading on my iPad but if you tap elsewhere it goes away. (Agree it’s annoying when it does though.)

      1. I can scroll past to a point, but if I pause for a couple seconds, it solidifies so I can’t scroll past or do anything without subscribing. So then I just stop reading.

    3. I had the issue a couple times last week. I was never able to get past the registration pop up so gave up on reading those days. Also on an iPad.

        1. I had to train my adblocker to block the subscription frame, but now I no longer see it. Sorry, Kat…

          2. On the free AdBlock Plus, you click the blocker extension icon and select “Block Element” then hover over to highlight whatever frame is an ad, click, and confirm. It’s awesome.

  3. Help – every summer I wear stretchy ribbed material tank tops and I love them and how they fit. But I’m a heavy sweater and live in a very hot and humid area of the SEUS. I’d like to buy 3-4 wicking / exercise tanks that will look ok with shorts and casual skirts. Any recommendations from athletic or yoga brands? Thank you!

    1. not exactly athletic or yoga but i just bought some from uniqlo with a built in bra which i’m pretty optimistic about.

    2. I like the Momentum tops from Athleta. They’re very light and have a lot of ventilation. Lululemon has Align tanks in waist and sometimes hip length but they aren’t quite as airy and only the high-neck versions work for me.

    3. Athleta has lots of options in this category. Check out the In Motion and Momentum tops.

  4. I’m late to the game, but what was the verdict on il Makiage foundation? Looking for solid coverage for some events, not every day usage. If you found it to be all hype, is there another I should check out? Thanks!

    1. If you have TikTok I’d check out a creator called the ‘Lipstick Lesbians’ – she’s an ex product development person for cosmetics and has a ton of helpful insights. She recently did a ‘March Madness’ of best foundations and had great advice in terms of coverage/skin benefits/etc.

    2. Someone recently recommended Wet and Wild’s tinted hydrator foundation to me. I don’t usually wear drugstore foundation but tried it and I love it! Very light feel but solid coverage.It might be worth a try for $6.

        1. Ha ha no not the person you were replying to, but usually that means you have more make up in your pores and not elsewhere giving you a polkadot appearance that very much emphasizes the pores.

        2. Yea it sank into my pores and looked awful even with a primer. It didn’t work for me but a BB cream works on my skin. Maybe it was too heavy for me?

    4. I actually really like it. It’s one of the few liquid foundations I’ve been able to make work for me from a shade match and formula perspective (very pale, very dry skin).

      I don’t love the push for subscriptions and add ons and all that, but it’s easy enough to decline/ignore.

    5. I typically wear drugstore products but I was also considering Il Makiage and went into a Sephora to look for it. I ended up at the Make Up For Ever display and then remembered I have a sample. I tried and liked that one the two days I used the sample. My skin is pretty smooth, small pores, slightly oily, but at 50 was starting to show some lines and also needs coverage after I burned my skin, leaving some dark marks, trying expensive skincare because of the hype.

    6. I bought it and liked it enough to get a second tube. Oily / combination skin, 46 years old.

  5. Another summer wardrobe question: I am also a very sweaty individual and am looking for some shaping bras that wick away sweat but aren’t necessarily a full-on sports bra, which I find uncomfortable for all-day wear. Plus the compression is not needed for daily activities. Bonus points if they are racerback or have narrower straps that don’t show under tank tops. Size 36D.

    2. Nylon is good for wicking and hiding sweat and makes for some very comfortable bras in my opinion.

      For specific bras, maybe check out Calvin Klein’s seductive comfort line..

    3. I want this, too, for gardening and other sweaty activities that do not involve a lot of impact.

    4. It’s a sports bra, but I love my Elomi energise sports bra. It’s wicking and comfortable, and it doesn’t smash me into a uniboob. It gives me a regular bra shape.

      It comes up high in the front so it may not work if you want to wear a lower neckline, but other than that, I find it so comfortable that I reach for it over other bras even if I’m not working out.

    5. I’m a very sweaty person who, since the pandemic, refuses to wear bras with clasps. I bought the Vermilion Bird Women’s 3 Pack Seamless Comfortable Sports Bra with Removable Pads from the river site last year and like them. I’m a 34C and bought the small, but could have gone with medium. I wear them as my daily bras and for activities like yard work and a slow walk. They’re definitely not sports bras, but they have good jiggle control. I was in the machine and hang dry. They’re holding up perfectly.
      Unfortunately, not racerback or narrow straps.

  6. Please help me find two dresses for a client appreciation event at a private golf club in the NYC area. I am the client and a golfer in this scenario. I’m having trouble deciphering the dress code for the non-golf portions of the event: “A jacket is required for lunch, and a jacket and tie are required for dinner (with corresponding attire for women).” What would you wear to this? Thanks all!

    1. I would wear a Lilly Pulitzer dress to lunch and a simple sheath to dinner.

      2. Lilly Pulitzer also makes golf dresses with underskorts. HIGHLY recommend. Can throw a cardigan over if needed.

        Tory Burch also makes them but for a person with a longer torso than me.

    2. Business casual for lunch, business attire for dinner. I would not wear Lily, you are a professional, not a lady who lunches.

      2. This may be true in NYC, but I’m in Atlanta and I see tons of Lily on professional women at the various daytime bar events.

    4. It means you should wear a nice dress to lunch and dinner. Change for actual golfing. Agree with the Lilly and Tuckernuck (or dresses with similar vibes) for lunch and dinner.

    5. I am not sure whether you want to wear your golf clothing to lunch, but you certainly don’t want to wear them to the dinner. You’ll get sweaty golfing if there’s any kind of warm weather at all so you’ll want to shower before dinner and change into a nice dinner dress. Not golf clothing, not golf related.

  7. I’d love some feedback on my situation with my sister that I can’t understand. She is everything a “successful modern working mom” should be and has a beautiful life and family (she is very competitive socially). I am a nerd who could lose a few pounds and have never been charming. I have a lovely husband and baby, a job I enjoy and am content with my boring life.

    I am genuinely happy for her and glad she got to build the life she wanted, as did I. However, she’s made it clear in the past that she looks down on me and has always been slow to acknowledge or celebrate important things I have going on. But the weird comments and behavior have really amped up since we had our baby girl last year. Her children are older and were spoiled by the whole family for years before our daughter was born.

    If I didn’t know any better I’d say she was jealous. I recently mentioned it to my husband and he was surprised I hadn’t noticed years ago. I can’t wrap my head around this. I have nothing going on in my life that is objectively better than what she has. How can she be jealous of me (or of a baby)? Am I missing something about this situation? What am I supposed to do about this?

    1. Everyone has their own insecurities regardless of what it looks like from the outside. Maybe she thinks you’re smarter. Maybe she thinks your husband is nicer. Maybe she thinks your family is nicer to you than to her – I have no idea! And she could be right or wrong in her assessment. But everyone has things they worry about.

    2. Maybe because she can sense that you are content with your life, and she can’t tap into that emotion, instead feeling like she has to hustle constantly.

    3. Jealousy is usually way more about the person feeling jealous than anything about the recipient of the jealousy. And it’s not consistent. What’s fine one day may be a trigger another. I wouldn’t look too deeply since it’s not anything you can do other than continue to live your life and try to be kind and not compete (which there is a slight tinge to with this post). Everyone runs their own race.

    4. sibling dynamics are weird, even for adults, and sometimes the next generation brings out old grievances. I recently caught myself becoming annoyed with parents for prioritizing visiting my sibling’s younger kids at (what felt like) the expense of my older, more independent kids. I reminded myself that they are building different relationships and the ages of the kids make a big difference.
      if it’s not really affecting your day to day, I’d try to ignore it and move on.

    5. Eh do you really think she’s jealous? What sort of comments? Maybe she’s just nostalgic for younger kids. Or really busy. If she’s a successful working mom with older kids, she’s stretched thin. I definitely try to celebrate siblings with younger kids than ours but it’s true that everyone attended the oldest grandchild’s baptism or ballet recital and by my younger kids, that was not the case, and probably won’t be for my youngest siblings kids. Schedules get crazy. Young kids are physically exhausting but the sheer logistics and mental load with working and elementary age kids is something lese entirely.

      So I’d be hesitant to put too much thought into it and I’d also tell her if she hurts your feelings. She may not have noticed. I’m pretty careful because I am very aware that this dynamic exists so we make sure to make a big deal out of auntie and show up for cousins but DH is kind of over one year old birthday parties at this point, for example.

      1. I don’t know how many siblings or niblings you have, but is the youngest I would be really hurt by this prescriptive. My kid’s baptism is not less important because it happened later. It’s one thing to not attend every sports game, it’s another to skip major life events because you are bored of them

          1. It’s the way things usually work, though. The younger childless siblings show up for the older siblings’ kids’ milestones, then when the younger siblings have their own kids the older ones are unwilling to drag their kids along because of the logistical hassles.

          2. My older sister pulled that on me, except she didn’t have kids or a full-time job when I got married (she was working 3 days a week for a friend).

          3. That may be the way it works in your family, but it’s certainly not the way it works in my family or those of most of my friends.

      2. OP here – it very well maybe something besides jealousy but what? Growing up I always had to defer to her because my parents hated dealing with her tantrums. I always downplayed what was going on in my life, even as an adult, to keep the peace (like I would post a handful of vacation photos after a trip on the family chat but stopped after she said it made me seem desperate). My baby is getting a lot of attention but as much as I’m willing to censor myself to keep my sister happy I absolutely will not do that to my daughter. But how can my sister be this insecure? She has everything she says she wants. It makes me want to create more distance to protect my daughter from her issues.

        1. Your parents gave into her because of her tantrums? They were that bad?

          That’s a deep-rooted problem with your sister.

          FYI, when she tells you to not put up the vacation photos, put up more. She wants to cast you as the sad, pathetic sister with the crappy life, and anyone who knows you both won’t believe it when they see you splashing in the water with your baby in the Maldives.

        2. Based on this additional info, it’s completely jealousy. Your family has catered to her for her whole life, And hidden her from anything that could cause jealousy. So, she doesn’t know how to deal with it now and someone doesn’t just grow out of this. Honestly, this was a big parenting fail by your parents.

          I would 100% distance yourself from her. You never should’ve had to dim yourself to make her feel bette.
          Now is the time to stop it.

          1. Yup. Also, you can only control your reaction to her. You can’t control her actions, and understanding her actions will not lead to a magic solution you can implement. While I understand the impulse to try to figure out the “why” here, it’s ultimately irrelevant you – unless there is some part of you that is likewise feeding off this dynamic (she’s the perfect but dramatic one, I’m the less conventional but normal one). I know it’s cliche but therapy might help. This is obviously a long-standing dynamic and therapy might help you disrupt that dynamic internally and through boundaries so you are happier and not wasting your energy on “solving” this. Also, this dynamic is seemingly reinforced by your parents so you are going to have to address that too.

        3. Ugh, wow… your sister sounds like a piece of work. I’m sorry… you should be able to share your photos with your family.

          Some people are just like this… Sounds like she is very competitive and likes to be the center of attention.

        4. I have a sister like this and my parents handled it similarly. The only solution is really to minimize contact and live your own life. You’re not going to change her or your parents. FWIW, my mother now admits to the $hitty way I was treated as a kid but I think that’s because it was really my father’s doing and she knew it was wrong all along but couldn’t stop it until she finally divorced him.

        5. “Something besides jealousy, but what?”

          It’s a tantrum. A jealous one, but a tantrum nonetheless. It worked for her as a child, it even worked for her previously as an adult, so she’s doing it again.

          Good for you for putting your foot down on your daughter’s behalf.

        6. It’s interesting how you’re continuing to go back to childhood versus giving examples from now. It sounds like you’ve had a competitive dynamic for a while and that can be hard to break. Does it really matter if she’s jealous or not? Try to focus on now—do what makes you happy regardless of others and try to be fair about sharing attention. Therapy might help since so much of this can be difficult to shift after so long and you want to set the next generation up better.

          1. What a weird take, it sounds like the sister is competitive and isnt dealing with this well, not the OP.

          2. I don’t think it’s a weird take. Two things can be true – OP’s sister can be totally out of line and a brat since childhood, and OP can also be subconsciously keeping herself in an unhealthy dynamic.

          3. This isn’t defending her. It’s noting that whether she’s jealous isn’t really the issue. It takes two people to make a competition. When you let go of your side of the rope, they often don’t know what to do. Therapy gives the tools to learn how to do that, regardless of whoever is tugging on the other end.

            And I do get how annoying it is to have someone around who always has to be Golden. I say this as someone who has a relationship of 20+ years with a college friend who is really prone to jealousy. I’ve had to learn how to respond (or not) to her insecurities and recognize that I won’t dim my shine for her, but I also won’t play into being put in a competition that I’m not seeking. I de-escalate rather than take the bait now. And sometimes our friendship is really lovely. And other times I realize she’s in a mood and I choose how much I’m willing to deal (sadly, something I have the benefit of since it’s a friend not family). I also try not to get wound up the way I used to realizing her behaviors aren’t about me. For example, she would consistently share photos in group texts and on social where she looked better than me–even the first photos out of my wedding were her sharing unflattering photos of me at the reception looking all sweaty with my hair all frizzy. But when I stepped back, I realized it’s that way with a lot of others in her photos as well. Most of our mutual friends have had some unfaltering shots. Now I no longer take photos with her. I’m not going to change her, but I can change me. I also set different expectations around things I know are likely to set her off. She has seemed threatened by my career through the years. I once got really upset because she was bragging about choosing a fancy new car right after I just shared that I lost my job.I realize now that I have other friends who have been supportive of my career growth and I look to them for comfort. What’s the therapy line? You learn you don’t go to the hardware store for orange juice. At times, it gets exhausting. I share all of this, because there are a lot of really great moments, too. She can be one of the kindest people I know and my fiercest defender. We wouldn’t have stayed friends this long if she wasn’t. But I also recognize that her insecurities mean I need to step off the jealousy and competition train at MY choosing.

          4. “It takes two people to make a competition.”

            Not at all true. Refusing to get sucked into the competition doesn’t make it go away; it often causes it to escalate.

        7. I think I have this exact sister (two wonderful kids, very wealthy husband, giant house etc etc) including my parents catering to her all the time because of her tantrums/moods and the fact that I was a flexible, generally happy person.

          After a lot of therapy, I’ve basically just come to the realization that my sister just isn’t a great person. I wish we had a close relationship but shes just not a happy person and is often just kinda a jerk. I now refuse to take her moods and comments seriously and significantly limit my interactions with her in scenarios where i know she is going to make lots of B!tch@ comments to me.

          I also just don’t invite her to a lot of my kids’ things since i know she is just going to be unreasonably jerky about stuff and my parents will cater to her over me/my kids. She lives 3ish hours away so it’s not hard.

          1. One other note – her behavior escalated after I had kids because the me/the larger family would not cater to her so completely. No me and my kids would drive decisions regarding family functions, etc at least somewhat instead of being based 100% on her and her kids preferences.

            It really got awful and I’ve taken a giant step back from her.

            Good luck. I’m sorry to say but shes not going to change and your parents arent going to suddenly wake up and see her for who she is. The only thing you can control is how you and your family interact with her.

        8. Your parents should have parented better but here you are now. You don’t have to post everything in a family chat. Share with your parents (or other family) and don’t share as much with her. If you’re fed up, why don’t you just stop coddling her. Next time she makes a mean comment, I’d reach out to her separately and say that comment hurt your feelings and was mean spirited. If she throws a tantrum, she’s an adult and can change her behavior.

      3. Unless you have a huge number of siblings each, being over one year old birthday parties is ridiculous. He has to attend, what 5 or 6 for your nieces and nephews? He can put on a good face for 6 afternoons of his life

      4. Ugh I knew there would be someone coming to the defense of the golden child sister. OP your sister is jealous you’re happy and getting attention, don’t buy into the above narrative

        1. Who is defending the spoiled sister? Everyone is telling the OP that her sister is being ridiculous

          1. Or at least everyone once she added the additional details, which significantly changed the story of what is going on

          2. I didn’t write that but I think it’s more in line with you can’t change how someone behaves (you really can’t) but you can change your reaction to it. Finding your own peace and ignoring the competition goes a long way.

      5. This is so sad to me. My kids are tweens now, but we love it when our siblings and friends have new babies and we love celebrating them. Babies and toddlers are so adorable! Especially when you can give them back to their parents at the end of the day and go home to your quiet house, lol.

    7. Did she want girls and have boys? Is your baby really cute? Does she feel like her kids are obnoxious and old news by now? Not saying it’s “right”, but those are reasons she could be jealous of a baby

    8. There could be a million reasons – she wants to relive that new baby era, maybe she has postpartum issues and struggled through a birth injury and is jealous you had a better experience, maybe she’s really tired, or she’s just naturally competitive about everything. I don’t think you need to do anything, just be nice and tell yourself that you may never know what is going on privately with someone.

    9. My sister has always been obnoxious, competitive, and petty. I just don’t talk to her any more. You don’t have to be friends with her just because you are related.

    11. Sometimes siblings’ feelings go way back! You could be trying to figure this out looking at where your lives are now, and the feelings could be coming from something that happened when you were five or ten years old (and she may not even realize that). I think she is the one who needs to figure this out if she wants to though; I don’t see how you can do anything about it other than maybe try to connect with her in general (talk about life growing up, family memories, in case it provides an opportunity to rehash that one time your parents made it to your recital but skipped her soccer game or whatever).

    12. Intuitive guess: people respect you in a way they don’t respect her.

      It is hard to see with siblings, because people can mentally revert back to high school status. She’s thin and pretty and socially adept!!11!! Well, that’s nice, but that isn’t what’s important as you get older. Your smarts and maybe your job are things she doesn’t have.

      Super hot take: late 30s are rough on a very specific type of person. Your sister presumably went to college and graduated college. Yay her! Then there was the big ring, the engagement parties, the bachelorette party, the perfect social butterfly wedding. Then the photogenic babies came along. More accolades, more praise, look at her rocking at life!

      …and then nothing.

      And then you, who haven’t gotten feted throughout your 20s, get a wedding and now you are getting a baby.

      Whoa! The world doesn’t look like this! SHE is the one who is supposed to be getting all the attention and praise and parties while you sit on the sidelines. No fair!

      1. I won’t pass judgment on the hotness of your take, but I agree with you – once the milestones run out, the overachievers feel the dearth.

        1. Agreed. There’s no more milestones for her but there are for you. Thankfully (imo) your kids are far enough apart in age that the cousin competition can’t be quite as direct. (Oh, your Georgiana is having her first dance recital? Well MacKinleigh is competing that weekend at the world championship.) because when they run out if their own milestones, they start to use their children’s. But if she does start to retrospective compare (well MacGuver rolled at 3 weeks and was walking by 7 months , you should really have baby Fritz evaluated) have a one liner like “isn’t it so interesting that children develop differently” and grey rock everything she says.

        2. Thank you for understanding what I mean!

          Ironically, I have seen this less with the overachievers (or they handle it differently?), and a lot with the medium-plus achievers. It’s the “college plus ring plus marriage plus babies before 30” crowd.

          The overachieves often do long and brutal grad school, clerkships, residencies, that stuff, and often marriage is later, too.

          1. Ha! Maybe reality sets in better for that crowd during the brutal grad schools/residencies/etc.

    13. “she’s made it clear in the past that she looks down on me…” means there are relational dynamics between the two of you that have been going on for years. This may be entirely on her, or you may play some part in it. Either way, I wouldn’t spend much time trying to rationally figure out what is going on right now that’s causing this. Whatever it is, it’s been in play for years, it likely has its origins from when you were growing up, and I’m guessing that it probably makes you bad (angry? resentful? sad? lonely? vengeful?).

    14. Sounds like jealousy to me. She and her kids were the centre of attention and then your baby came along.

    15. My take on it (based on the additional comments) is that you’re cast in a role, and once you stepped up or out of that role, she got upset and rattled and angry. I used to drink too much and be a general hot mess express. I had a couple (toxic) friends during that time period that acted SUPER weird once I stopped drinking and got my ish together. Turns out I was cast in the “hot mess friend that makes me feel better about myself” role and once that wasn’t the reality anymore, I was a problem and a thorn in their side.

      Any chance you’re the “lesser” sister who reliably made her feel better about herself but now that you’re actually married, happy, and have cute kid(s), you’re not so “lesser” anymore?

    16. Being conventionally attractive, thin, and successful does not make you emotionally adjusted.

      1. Yeah, I think about the tv show, Physical with Rose Byrne. In the beginning she has all of those signifiers on the outside (but also an eating disorder). On the inside, she’s constantly thinking nasty things about herself and others that she can’t control. It’s hard to tell what’s really going on inside a person.

    17. My sister who had babies first was and is far from the perfect wife and mother and career woman, she mostly was just a mother and glories in her imagined black sheep status for being a young mother.

      But she was pissed when I had a child years later. I was a doing auntie, and still am, to her children, but she said it wasn’t fair to her children that I had children of my own now because they would get less attention from me.

      Doesn’t sound like your exact situation, but could it be some of that? your sister‘s children are not as special because they’re not the only grandchildren anymore?

      1. Your second paragraph is wild. I don’t doubt that it happened; it just speaks so incredibly poorly of her.

        1. She’s a hot mess for sure. Always has been. So, different than OP’s situation, but there is something to having a sister who feels like she cornered the motherhood market.

        2. I have a friend who has been in therapy focused her relationship with her mother. Her mother was a teen mom and has been very difficult for friend to get along with as she has become a young adult. The therapist claims mom’s emotional maturing stopped at the point that she became a mother, so she’s in many ways a perpetual 16 year old.

    18. My aunt is like this. She’s my mom’s younger sister, the baby of their family. She is so gorgeous (literal former beauty queen), good career, has a lovely husband with a Big Tech job so they live in an area of our city the rest of us could only dream of affording, and an athletic, smart, polite son. But she’s so unhappy. She constantly makes snarky comments to me, my parents, the rest of our family. I’ve thought about it a lot because I love her and she wasn’t always like this (it’s gotten worse and worse as she’s gotten older).

      My personal theory is that for people like my aunt and your sister, the trappings of her life just makes her jealousy worse because she can objectively see that she should be happy but she’s not. And she seems people with less who she can tell are genuinely happy and it drives her crazy because she doesn’t understand how they’re able to that, when she can’t.

  8. Thanks to everyone who responded with suggestions about how to the last few tasks / minutes of the morning to be smoother. I wasn’t able to read your comments until late in the afternoon, but I took your advice about separation. It is probably the only way until they grow up a bit in terms of how they interact.

    I was more aggressive this morning about keeping them apart and today was much better than yesterday. I get them up at the same time but they already functionally eat breakfast at different times because 1st grade bounds out of bed like a deer fleeing a pack of wolves and 3rd grade groans and tries to go back to sleep. I think I’ve been hoping that the different breakfast times would keep them separated. After your comments, I realized that (1) 1st grade is lying in wait to be with 3rd grade after breakfast (2) 3rd grade wants to be left alone to groan through the morning routine and (3) the fight starts when 1st grade insists on being with 3rd grade. I brought 3rd grade’s toothbrush to the breakfast table so it was right there after breakfast and I think I’m going to start bringing both toothbrushes to the breakfast table.

    (1) To those who said sibling violence isn’t a scheduling issue – absolutely. I included it to illustrate the level of fight that brews right after breakfast. We also do not approve of violence, and rest assured that the culprit lost a bunch of screen time and got a bunch of extra chores. I also agree 1st and 3rd grade aren’t toddlers learning the rules about not hitting etc. Unfortunately they are in a very obnoxious stage where each drives the other nuts for entertainment value. As far as I can tell, they’re not similarly obnoxious with non-sibling peers, so they clearly know and can follow the rule about not tormenting people.
    (2) Maybe we do need better rewards. There is a special Friday breakfast (cinnamon toast) for 3rd grade if 3rd grade is dressed and downstairs in time to make it. (1st grade is eligible for the breakfast but only wants oatmeal. 1st grade would eat oatmeal 3 meals a day if possible.) I’ll expand it to all days – I haven’t done so because of the sugar and toothbrushing resistance. The existing reward structure stems from the fact that the kids are frequently on my case to ask Siri a question or do Duolingo….but when I say they can do it when they are ready to go, they lose interest.
    (3) If they brush their teeth first, they won’t eat breakfast. If they don’t eat breakfast, they are hangry and things go downhill from there. Sigh.
    (4) Only 1st grade is interested in competing with me. 3rd grade groans and tries to go back to sleep.

    1. It sounds like the younger one should get dressed, eat breakfast, and then be occupied with something else in a different room (an episode of TV or whatever) first to let the older one go through their own morning routine separately.

      1. This. Just keep them apart. Rewards and systems don’t work with tired, grouchy kids in the morning. Respect the older one’s need for space and most of the problems should resolve.

      2. It would be ideal but I would probably have to lock the younger one into a separate room to achieve it. The younger one (apparently the lone extrovert in a family of introverts) REALLY wants to be with someone. I’d need to get the younger one at 5:45 or so. We’re already getting up at 6:15 to make the bus (at 7:28).

          2. Yes. Tell 3rd grade there will be a consequence if he isn’t able to make the bus. Gently remind him what needs doing and how much time is left. In the meantime, play with the 1st grader who is presumably ready to go.

          3. If keeping a parent with him worked then I don’t see why you would complicate things further with rewards etc. Just arrange your schedule to keep a parent in the same room. I only have one kid but I used to handle mornings by giving her a cup of cheerios in front of the TV in my bedroom while I got ready in the bathroom with the door open. That satisfied her need to be near me while allowing me to do what I needed to do.

    2. I posted about my 4th grader who waits until the last minute to get up. She’s old enough for a different set of consequences. If she doesn’t make the bus due to her inability to get a move-on she gets her bedtime pushed up. She’s a major sports fan who loves watching games that run a little late so this is a big deal for her. We compromise by offering to drive her (this buys ~25 minutes) on the occasional morning. There have been some close calls but she’s always made it.

      My younger two like the reward of screen time while waiting for the bus so they get themselves ready. I’ve also found that only my K kiddo needs micro managing. The more I back off the better it goes.

        1. There is neither a rule nor a norm that parenting issues are prohibited here. Collapse and scroll on by.

          1. It’s not a rule, but it is a norm that posts like this are for the mom board. And I say that as a mom

          2. I’m a parent and appreciate parenting conversations… but I also think they should be on the other board, FWIW. It’s not a huge deal and you can collapse the thread, but the other site was specifically made for these types of posts. I think it’s worth nudging users to keep the parent-related topics on the other site. No shade against OP! She originally posted here yesterday, so I think that’s why the update is here.

        2. Good Lord I scroll past stuff I don’t care about here all the time. You’re fine, OP.

        3. I believe OP said yesterday she was hoping for responses from parents of older kids, and the other board is more parents of younger kids. Either way, you’re free to continue scrolling. She got a lot of responses here, so you don’t seem to be in the majority with that perspective.

          1. I see the comment that parents of “older” kids (are 6 and 8 really older?) aren’t present on the other site, but I don’t think that’s true anymore. The user base (and their kids) have aged since it launched, and I see plenty of posts about elementary age kids on the other website. Not so much about teens (yet).

          2. +1 to Cerulean. At the time the moms page launched, it was mostly women who were pregnant and had babies, but that was a decade ago, and the kids have aged with the moms page. There aren’t a ton of parents of teens there, but there are a *lot* of people there with kids over the age of 8. I’ve never really understood the comments that it’s all parents of tiny kids.

    4. OP thanks for posting and following up here. Ignore the naysayers asking you to post on the Moms board. My kids are similar in age but I rarely check there as I feel it skews younger kids and I have this similar morning battle so this has been very helpful.

  9. Informal poll:

    Do you hire housecleaners? If so, how often do they come? Is it a service or an individual? What do you pay? Are you happy with them?

    I have never had cleaners in my life, but after a rough time in life I could really use a deep clean. Curious what others do. Thanks!

    1. Yes, every two weeks, a team of three, $140, it is the best. They charged $200 the first time due to the state of our house. It was and is money well spent.

    2. Yes! We pay $135 ($150 when we include the basement) biweekly for a small service to clean our house. Are they perfect? No, but overall they do a good job, and it is worth every penny since I hate cleaning and don’t have time for it. We live in the suburbs of a HCOL area and have a 2500 square foot house.

    3. Yes, They come weekly. It’s a service with three people. We pay $210 for them cleaning our entire main level (about 1700 square feet) and folding all our laundry (a veritable mountain).

      With a husband, a job, two kids three and under, and a large dog….I am reasonably certain that I would no longer be married or sane without someone cleaning our house.

    4. Weekly, cleaner with their own business but it’s the same person, pay $140/week. Would be double for biweekly because it’s easier to clean when it’s done regularly (per my cleaner). It’s amazing and I’ve always had a cleaner, one of my life nonnegotiables. They clean, change the sheets, do laundry.

    5. I only can afford a deep clean once or twice a year, but every time afterwards I am so relieved and glad I hired housecleaners! I usually use a local service, and haven’t had any problems with scheduling. If I could afford monthly cleanings I might try to use an individual.

    6. Yes. Every 3 weeks (I’m single with no pet or kids and keep my apartment pretty clean between cleanings). Individual. $150. She’s great and I’ve used her for years.

      1. Also I’ve had her come to do move-in deep cleans when I’ve moved apartments, and I make a very specific list of what I’d like her to clean beyond the standard weekly clean (e.g. insides of cabinets, all appliances, vents, etc.), and we agree on a special price for that. Usually around double to triple the normal price.

    7. I had them for about three years but stopped about a year ago. It started off as a four person team and they did a great job; over time it dwindled to a 2 person team staying the same amount of time, doing a mediocre job. I paid $150; they came in every other week for about 1.5 hours (~2000 sq ft house), which I think was objectively a reasonable price, especially in the early days. If you find a good person/team, its really delightful to come home to a clean house.

    8. Yes, biweekly, individual*, $150 per visit, and happy enough that they’ve been with us for 8 years and do a B+ job (nothing broken but often not as good as when I clean myself), but are reliable and trustworthy and then doing a B+ job is better than DH and I doing nothing!! Their rate is also under market and we feel it’s fair. We tip well at holidays and pay them when we are out of town or need to skip. We also paid them all through covid.

      *they’ve been with us over 8 years. When they started it was a husband/wife team but they’ve expanded their business and added other helpers. We have always had the husband but his helper rotates every few years.

    9. Every other week, $150, and it’s worth every penny. We use a service because we (family of four) live in a house: three cleaners come, and they’re in and out in < 3 hours. I felt a lot of misplaced guilt when first hiring them until others knocked some sense in me: we can afford it, I hate cleaning, and a clean house makes me so happy.

    10. Yes- every 2 weeks, $180 per visit, 3-4 people come each time. House is about 2700 sf. Before they started they did a deep clean, including our basement which is unfinished and they don’t touch in their normal routine, for $500.

    11. I just hired an individual cleaner and she came for the first time yesterday and it’s definitely life changing. I am in a 600 square foot apartment and come from a working class family who never hired anyone for anything, and felt kind of guilty for hiring someone to clean it for me since it’s so small, but decided honestly who cares. I hate cleaning the bathroom and floors, and am super busy with other life stuff. She was in and out in an hour, and charged $75. I’ve been marveling at how clean my apartment feels ever since she left.

    12. Yes, $250 every two weeks for a 5 bed, 2.5 bath house. It’s an individual + some employees/family members she brings. I’d be more comfortable with a service but it’s hard to find a decent one in our area.

    13. Yes, though we’re currently on our 4th attempt to find one we liked. Previous attempts have been services and the cleaning was inconsistent at best. We’re trying an individual this time–she just did a really good deep clean for $400 (took two people literally all day for our 2000 sq ft hosue) and is going to be I think $200 for every 3 weeks or monthly regular cleaning going forward. The service prices ranged from about $180-225. MCOL town.

      1. Personally I think an individual cleaner is a much better and more consistent experience. When we had a cleaning company, sometimes things were not done the same every time and some days it was better than others. Having an individual clean is so much more personal – they know exactly how we like it and what our patterns are.

    14. $200 every 2-3 weeks; 1500sf. Best money spent. We do some light cleaning in between but it has removed the burden of heavy mopping, scrubbing, deep cleaning.

    15. We had cleaners when I was in grad school and shared a house with six people. It was included in the rent, so I don’t know how much it cost, but split six ways it was cheap and seemed worth it to avoid roommate fights. Since I’ve moved into “grown up” houses, I haven’t been able to get past my aversion to having people coming into my space, plus we have pets, so I definitely don’t want anyone in the house when we’re not there, and it’s stressful having people going in and out even when we are home (we have workers here as I write). Also because of pets, I’m running the roomba and sweeping at least once a day already, and the kitchen and bathrooms also get some cleaning on a daily basis, so I don’t really feel like a twice a month cleaning would be that helpful. I don’t mind cleaning, really, and just tend to do 5 minutes here or there while doing other things and that seems to be enough to keep my house in pretty decent shape.

    16. I sometimes feel like I’m the last person who doesn’t have cleaners. FWIW, I’m generally a penny pincher and have never gotten over the idea of that splurge. I am also not really too busy to clean my place. Overall I am not a big outsourcer.

      1. I would love to have cleaners, but the idea of spending $600-800 a month to have them do a worse than mediocre job just doesn’t seem worthwhile. I have hired cleaners for a few one-time cleans and it’s never worth it because even a “deep clean” is truly just a surface wipe. What I really want them to do is the labor-intensive deep cleaning, but if you ask them to clean the ceiling fans they just dab them lightly with a duster, which I could do myself in no time for free.

    17. Yes. They come every two weeks. I pay $200 each time and they bring all supplies. 3k square foot house. There’s three or four of them; they’re usually there two hours. I’m satisfied with their work. Honestly I could do a more thorough job but it would take me an entire day. Plus my house is only actually clean for the 30 minutes between when my cleaners leave and my kids come home from school. :)

    18. 2000 sq ft in MCOL area, $125 to have an individual cleaner come every other week. It is $160 to add the daylight basement (900 sq ft). I had hired a cleaning company that charged $250 for monthly cleanings, but wanted $175 for every other week, so I went with an individual cleaner.

    19. Yes, once a week for a woman who works alone. She charges $180 per cleaning, which adds up to a ridiculous amount of money over the course of a year, but every time I try to cut back to every other week, I regret it. As others have said, she’s not perfect but she is so much better than me doing it myself.

    20. I’ve had a cleaner (mostly the same one) since I moved in with my then-fiance almost 20 years ago (so most of my adult life). She used to come every two weeks, now she comes every week. I’m happy because it’s a base level of clean and my family members are blissfully unaware of crumbs, dust, or full trash cans.

    21. I don’t have cleaners but I sometimes think about getting it. I rotate which through rooms I clean. Our house isn’t pristine, but it’s not a hot mess either.

      3500 sq ft house. 2 elementary kids. Dual income household. We can easily afford it, HHI >600k.

      1. Damn, our HHI is <$200k and I think we’d have cleaners if we made half what we currently do. I’d cut pretty much every luxury from our budget before I’d give up cleaners.

    22. Yes, once a month, $175 in LCOL area. We have one child who is almost four and leaves a trail of crumbs wherever he goes. It is through a company and though we have different people come each time, they always do a great job. I heard it’s best to hire an independent person for cleaning, though, because the companies don’t pay their employees very well.

      1. Disagree on independent person, unless they are licensed/insured/bonded. We had a very difficult time finding an independent person who was, but we feel strongly that in our situation (pets, appearance of high income for this area) the downside is huge. Setting aside any theft concerns (which you can screen for), what if they trip over a toy and fall down the stairs, break something expensive or destroy it by using the wrong chemicals, or accidentally leave a faucet running when they wrap up for the day? We’d want to do the right thing, but also don’t want to get dragged into a wrongful injury lawsuit if they call a 1-800 lawyer.

    23. Nope. We used to but I let the service go because they were unreliable and broke things and tried to hide them. We haven’t hired anyone since about 2019. It’s a lot of work! My house is not as spotless day to day as it used to be the day of the cleaning. But we eventually get to everything.

      A deep clean sounds wonderful to me, though, even though at this point I would not go back to the every other week cleaning service.

  10. I have triangular duck feet. The Birdies that looks loafer-ish is OK in the ball of my foot but too roomy in the heel / backfood part of my feet. Even with heel snuggies.

    Has anyone tried the Birdies with straps? There is a blingy one that I wanted but might be more practical for actually staying on my feet. I do a lot of walking and will keep the current pair but they are probably more for days with a mix of standing, walking a little, and sitting.

    1. Following with interest. I have similar shape feet and am trying the Mary Janes trend because flats fall off my heels when I walk. But I had a strap break while running for a bus in Mary Janes, and I’m afraid that will happen again so I find myself walking funny to avoid putting too much stress on them. Maybe I should stick to brogues and sneakers…

  11. I think I angered my hip by running and not stretching/warming up at the gym. My one big gripe about orange theory classes is that there isn’t really a warmup. Anyway, I’ve never had hip issues before. I’ve been resting it and would like to start some stretches and mobility exercises, any advice for hip and pelvis strengthening?

    1. Where exactly does your hip hurt? If it’s the tissue on the outside of the hip, pigeon pose and foam rolling are both very helpful.

      1. Its the outside tissue for sure, and the groin/upper inner thigh like along the underwear line area feels very tight. Tissues and the joint. im finding it hard to explain as it is a new pain area for me.

    2. Go to a PT and have them check you first. Yeah you know the normal stretch exercises but they might identify something else.

      I say this because with running I have tight hamstrings that was pulled when doing intervals. It’s caused by sitting too much. I also have a very flat bottom because of this. My hip flexors are also in need of some attention. I’m doing yoga to increase my flexibility and I will start adding strength training once I’m working again as I want to hire a personal trainer to teach me properly.

    4. I also go to Orange Theory and have notoriously tight hips and Rheumatoid Arthritis (almost 48 years old, if that matters). For me, I always start on the tread. When they tell us to go to base, I don’t. I walk another few minutes. Basically 1 minute at 3mph, 1 minute at 3.5, one minute at 4, etc, until my body feels warm enough to get to base (6mph for me). I’m also the last one out of the studio every time because I do a little extra stretching. Also, multiple days a week, I do hip mobility exercises at home (Peloton guided or something similar).

    5. I had this not too long ago. The stretch that helped me was to lie in a doorframe with my groin at the threshold and put leg on the achy side straight up on the side of the doorframe while leaving the other leg straight out on the floor (hence the doorframe.) I held it for quite a while and didn’t try to push it. It only took a few days to feel better, and I didn’t stop exercising during that period, just took it a little easier.

    6. I am very susceptible to hip pain and for me strengthening exercises worked in a way no amount of stretching did. The ones I do regularly are:
      clamshell with a resistance band
      Lying on your back with your knees bent, feet on the ground. Push your butt & hips off the ground, hold for several seconds, come down slowly

      stretched I like:
      pigeon pose
      Lying on your back with your legs crossed (one foot on top of your opposite leg. Your thighs are at a 90deg angle to your core. Gently pull your knee/thigh toward you, stretching out the leg who’s foot is in top of that thigh. I usually do this in 5-second cycles, alternating between stretching and pushing back with the leg that would otherwise be stretching
      -kneeling on one knee (like you’re proposing), then leaning forward
      -regular reach up to the sky, then lean forward to touch your toes stretches, but with your legs crossed

  12. My son has serious foot odor that seems to be shoe agnostic – over time all of his shoes of varying materials develop the same overpowering funk. Has anyone found a solution to this? He carefully washes his feet in the mornings and evenings and wears socks. He asked yesterday if foot deodorant is a product that exists, so I’m off to research. I appreciate any tips or tricks you may have to share!

    3. Don’t wear the same shoes on consecutive days, if possible. This allows them to air out. May not solve the problem, but may help.

    4. I started using acne wash with salacytic acid, and that has made a huge difference in foot issues of all sorts. I did end up replacing one pair of leather shoes that I couldn’t get the smell out of with cheap vodka. I know that my old pantyhose wearing also contributed, so check the fiber content on his socks for something that his body chemistry doesn’t react well with.

    6. What’s he eating? A friend’s teen son had this issue due to peanut butter, of all things. No idea why, but when he eliminated PB, the funk stopped and when he added it back in it came back.

      1. This is wild. I assume he didn’t have any allergy or other intolerance to peanut butter? My son does have a weird GI history, so I’ll have to talk to him about any potential culprits. Experimentation can’t hurt!

        1. Nope, no intolerances or allergies to anything and I don’t know how they hit on PB as the culprit, but the difference was night and day – there was no denying that was the cause!

    7. For foot deodorant, use any of those new deodorant creams designed for private parts. They say for feet right on the labels.

      1. I use Lume on my feet and it helps. I also wash my feet with benzoyl peroxide acne wash.

    8. My husband had this problem when he was young – he sprays his shoes he wears regularly each night with OdorX, and sprays them again before wearing. No issues with odor.

    9. from a coach:
      magic hockey formula- in a spray bottle put 1/2 peroxide and 1/2 wintergreen rubbing alcohol.
      spray inside of shoes, leave to dry. It will smell like a dentist office for ten minutes
      another tip: have a second pair of sneakers to allow the days pair to fully dry
      old school: newspaper stuffed into the shoes overnight, every time sneakers/shoes are worn

    10. Make sure he wears socks 100 percent of the time. Also, I like to close the shower drain and pour tea tree and epsom salts into the tub so I’m getting a foot soak while I shower. Takes almost no effort and keeps foot bacteria down.

    11. Anti-bacterial soap for washing the feet? If I’m wearing sandals, even if I don’t get otherwise sweaty, I like to wash my feet when I get home. Foot odor is much reduced by using Lever soap vs. regular hand soap or whatever.

    12. Is he 14/15? If so, he will grow out of the worst of it. I don’t know what it was about that age, but 14 yo boy funk is a special level of smell. I used to have to roll down the windows on the way home from baseball practice because his catcher’s gear was so bad.

      1. He’s only nine!! So far his feet are the only funky parts of him, but I’m not looking forward to all-over smells…

    13. I have a small spray bottle I fill with isopropyl rubbing alcohol. Every day, I take my shoes off and spray down the insoles of the shoes with the alcohol. It helps kill the bacteria that cause the smell. If I keep up the daily maintenance, it makes SUCH a difference.

      Some shoes may be too far gone, but you could try really dousing them with alcohol for a number of days and letting them dry in between. With sneakers, it might also help to just wash the sneakers and replace with fresh insoles. Then switch to the maintenance routine going forward.

    14. To make the various suggested foot washes more fun and more effective, get him one of those long handled scrub brushes designed for one’s back. Makes it easier to reach the feet and get a good scrub. It also feels nice! I do this in the summer when I wear sandals a lot and need to make sure my feet are actually clean, not just rinsed.

    16. How old is he? My younger sister had horrendous foot odor through middle school and into high school and it cleared up as she got through puberty, so it may be a temporary thing related to teen hormones. My mom used to have her soak her feet in an apple cider vinegar dilution before bed each night and that seemed to help.

  13. Does anyone have the Hyundai Tucson or Santa Fe? We want to get a plug-in hybrid and they look promising – a lot of features we want for an ok price. We would want all electric for local driving to daycare and the store and then hybrid/gas for our long trips to the mountains. We also really want real knobs and not touchscreen everything!

    1. I have a 2019 Tucson and I love it!! It’s not a hybrid but it gets great gas mileage and is much nicer than my previous Ford. FWIW, my parents are in a *much* higher tax bracket than I am and they both have Santa Fes and love them too. My dad’s is a non-plug in hybrid and it is so luxurious. They haven’t had any issues with theirs, which was a big factor in convincing me to switch over to Hyundai. We’re big fans!

    2. I’ve had a Santa Fe Sport (gas) for many years and love it. I can’t speak to the hybrid version though but I’m also curious about it whenever we need to replace my current Santa Fe.

    3. My husband drives the Tuscon hybrid, but it isn’t plug in. It’s a great car, I actually want him to take my Subaru and for me to take the Tuscon, because we both like the way it drives.

    4. No comment on those particular cars, but I love my plug in hybrid. We live in a city so most errands are all electric, but we don’t have to worry about finding charging stations for road trips. Didn’t even have to put in a fast charger – just works in our regular outlet in the garage and since we don’t use the car every day or commute by car, it’s juiced up the next time we need it (and if not, it still works on gas!) . We often go months without buying gas if we aren’t heading out of town. Highly recommend.

    5. Hyundai Tucson looks like a great option. You may also want to look at the Crysler pacifica. It’s popular in my neighborhood.

  14. We are moving soon and finally have room for a larger couch. Have you all had good experiences with any of the online sellers – specifically Article, Cozey, or Burrow?
    Looking to keep it under $3k – we have champagne tastes but a Wayfair budget :) TIA!

    1. I would not buy a couch on line without seeing and sitting on it in person. I almost did this with our last couch but decided to drive 2 hours to the stores to test them out. The one that looked perfect on line was horrible and cheap in person, and the one that looked meh on line ended up being perfect.

      1. Agree. I recently bought a couch for the first time in a decade and things I thought I liked online I didn’t like in person. In addition to being better able to assess quality/comfort, you’ll also notice things in person that you’ll miss online. A huge one for me was that I didn’t realize I like a high back until I was trying them out in person. I need something to support my head, especially when the couch isn’t against a wall.

        I read a lot about Article couches and saw tons of bad reviews. I initially balked at spending more than 3K on a couch but after lots of research I decided to spend more to get something I’d (hopefully) have for quite awhile. I spent almost 6k (needed to be leather). I wasn’t seeing anything that seemed quality for less than 4k. It was something I could afford, just more than I would have preferred to spend because I’m cheap/anxious about money and still in sticker shock mode when I make grown up purchases.

        2. It’s so hard to find a high back now! All the current couches seem to be very low.

    2. I was so tempted by the online sellers, especially those with customizable options. But given the number of couches I had to sit on until finding one that I found truly comfortable, I couldn’t trust anyone else’s opinion. In your price range, I found some attractive and comfortable ones and Raymour and Flannigan. Shop over holiday weekend’s when they have discounts. I would have bought one from R&F but went with another (much more expensive) choice as it sadly wouldn’t fit my building’s elevator.

    3. Hopefully I’m an anomaly for them. Article was about 6 months late with my order of 4 dining room chairs about 2 years ago. I ended up being “gifted” $100 in store credit for the inconvenience. Based on that particular experience, I personally would avoid purchasing any furniture from them that I needed to have on time. Hopefully a bunch of people will comment they have not ran into that issue with them. But just adding my experience for thought.

      1. That’s my worry – back in 2021 we bought a Joybird couch (gave to my sister when we moved) – and it was a GREAT couch, but the process of actually getting it was a nightmare. Trying to avoid that this time around!

    4. My husband has been wanting a Burrow couch and went to their NYC flagship to sit on them. He liked them and still wants one. (Sadly, our new house couch budget got eaten up by unexpected repairs, so we are still making do with the old ones! The plan is to get Burrow one day)

      1. We have a burrow and ordered it online. The color is perfect. It was harder to put together than I thought it would be. We have a small entryway so needed something to come in pieces if we wanted a real couch size vs glorified loveseat. I like the appearance and am fine with the comfy-ness but my husband thinks it’s too hard.

    5. I got a sofa from apt2b.com about 10 years ago and was really happy with it. They’re made in Los Angeles so I could actually visit the factory but they were great about sending fabric samples.

    6. I tried out all the sofas at my local furniture stores and ended up ordering a customized Luonto through one of them. This was during early Covid so it took several months to arrive, but I do love my sofa. It was ~$2k altogether, and the quality is fantastic.

      1. Someone on this board recommended Macy’s couches a while back and I’m very happy with my purchase. It’s comfortable, looks nice enough, and has held up well so far.

    8. I just had a negative experience with an Article sofa which had to go back because the delivery people are contracted by Article and part of the company. So they are not insured to take it out of the box to get it to fit into the building, but the company is still charging me for the failed delivery.

    10. I bought a Cozey sectional a year ago, after looking for a sectional with washable removable covers. We got the dark grey colour (matches the dogs). We had 4 or 5 zippers burst on the cushions in the first few months, and they were really good about replacing them immediately. The dog threw up on one of the seat cushions and it washed and dried and looks like new.

  15. Does anyone have a experience at a great resort in Scottsdale? Planning an early-summer getaway with friends – late 30s/early 40s, looking for a relaxing break.

    3. I’ve had several work things in Scottsdale recently. Two of the three were at bigger resorts on the edge of town. The Fairmont Princess Scottsdale and the Hyatt Gainy Ranch. Both were lovely and luxurious with great looking pools. (Which I didn’t use, because: co-workers).

      But the one I really liked the best was The Scott Resort and Spa, which was really close to Old Town. A few girlfriends joined me for the weekend, and we extended the trip. The hotel had a more distinctive, fun vibe (ie not a generic chain). They had a free car service and would drive you to and from restaurants, Old Town, activities, etc at any time. Free bikes to use. Two pools, one with a man-made beach. Strong recommend!

    5. The Omni Montelucia has the best spa I have ever been to in my life and is breathtakingly beautiful. Multiple pools, lots of food options. Highly recommend.

    6. Four Seasons Scottsdale or Sanctuary on Camelback. It will be very hot, but I am sure you already realize that. :)

  16. I had final round interview on Tuesday for a perfect role. It’s a tough market right now with so many high quality candidates available for work. I know it’s not a poor reflection on me if I don’t get offered the role.

    But gah…. It’s now the 2nd business day and no word back. I just assume it’s a no. I’m thinking to follow up with the ceo tomorrow morning if I have not heard back. My interview was with the family office who own the company.

    1. That’s too soon to follow up. Maybe they’re interviewing other candidates and the other one wasn’t available until tomorrow afternoon. I would inquire at the end of NEXT week, not this week.

      1. I agree, unless they explicitly told you otherwise. I empathize, the waiting game stinks!

        1. Thank you for this! I am doing everything I can to distract myself. Its been a tough 2 years and this job search has been frustrating with this being the 7th role where I have made to the final stage, the previous 6 roles they went for the other candidate.

    2. Ha! I work for a large family office and it took them 12 weeks to send my offer. Two business days is wildly unrealistic.

      1. Good to know!

        It’s not a role with the family office but a role at a company they own. They met with me because of the role being part of the leadership team. I would be working for the CEO of the company. The family office are very hands on and I would be working very closely with them.

        I’ve previously not gone through the formal hiring process as for my last two roles I was hired based on my network, with a phone call asking if I’m interested in joining them, followed by 6 rounds of interviews in one day and no salary conversation as they gave me what I asked for over dinner the same day as the interviews. This insight on timeline to expect is very enlightening!

      2. +1 I work in leadership at a family business (although I realize that family office is probably something different). We may have the very very best intentions in wanting to get back to you in two days and being excited about your interview and it still may take us way too long because other business stuff has to get done and delays the offer. Frankly, if I do not prepare an offer within 1 hour of you leaving my office, even if the decision has been made to hire you, it will probably take a week. I try and be realistic and convey this to candidates though so they’re not left twisting in the dark.

  17. Speaking of jealousy…
    My husband has two sisters, and we’re all around the same age. Both sisters are conventionally beautiful (they were both pageant queens) and extremely successful in their careers and they make a ton of money and go on fabulous vacations all the time. I’m not in the same league, in terms of looks, career achievements, or finances.
    How do I get over the crippling jealousy and insecurity?

    1. I usually remind myself that these people had everything handed to them in life whereas I had to endure a horrible childhood, pay my own way through school, and then overcome a bunch of challenges as an adult that most people never face, so I’m actually pretty darn accomplished. Run your own race and be happy for the lucky people.

      1. Same. I am so proud of/happy with how my life turned out compared to how it could have been, I cannot find it in myself to envy anyone else. But I think that requires an objectively bad childhood/very traumatic experiences to work, and I would not recommend it as a solution to jealousy on its own:-)

    2. You reflect on what you have. Hopefully your SILs are kind people and you enjoy their company.

    3. My mother once told me that if you compare yourself to people who seem more fortunate (emphasis on seem), you will always be unhappy because there is always going to be someone better off. Happiness is in comparing yourself to people who are less fortunate. She would then add that by virtue of being born healthy in a country that is wealthy and at peace I was already luckier than most people on the planet.

      1. I think this is the answer. There’s always going to be someone better off than you in whatever metric you use. Comparison is the thief of joy is a saying for good reason. However, if I’m going to compare, I consider myself more fortunate than the vast majority of people in the world or even my county.

    4. No one’s life is perfect. I remind myself of this when I find myself feeling jealous of others. Even among family – there are secrets/realities behind closed doors that you may not know about.

      I probably had a seemingly perfect life to many of my acquaintances: conventionally attractive, professionally successful/high paying job, attractive successful husband – but was struggling for years with infertility and miserable. Often, things are not as they seem.

      1. +1 Every conventionally pretty, outwardly successful woman I know well has something going behind the scenes that they choose not to tell everyone. Crippling anxiety they spend all day masking to other people, parents they have to worry about because they’re becoming conspiracy theorists, hate their job, etc., etc. etc.

      2. This is so true. A lot of people assumed I had the perfect life when I was married. It was not perfect. I was in a highly abusive marriage and kept getting pregnant. Having 3 children was not a status symbol for me. Since leaving my marriage I look completely different. I was attractive before but now its on another level because I am so much happier and I have been able to attend to my needs, which includes health and beauty.

        I have had this feeling of jealousy and insecurity happen to me a few times in my life where I have met highly accomplished women and been jealous of their success. Once the same happened to me, where the woman felt jealous and insecure, my perspective changed to a place of acknowledging my feelings and using that to identify what in my life I am not happy with. Can you learn anything from them? Do you want to pursue further education, work on your fitness to improve your body or develop your career?

        When it comes to looks, of course genetics help, but remember that a lot of beautiful people work hard at it. They spend time on their nails, their exercise routine, hair, putting together outfits that flatter them and eating a very healthy diet. I am now a normal BMI. I worked hard for it. Now I am focused on the next step of improving my body and fitness further because I want to look a certain way and maintain my muscle mass as I get older. 100g of protein a day is hard. I spend a lot of time on my meal planning but this is something I would never talk about unless someone asked me specifically. I have had other women tell me I have it easy. I never correct them because I don’t know what they are going through and I don’t want to invalidate them, but I certainly have not had it easy.

      3. This is true sometimes! Sometimes it isn’t– there are people who have objectively had easier lives than others. That’s not a slight against the people who have had an easier time; it is just a fact about the universe. I’m not saying you fit into that category!

        But just noting that for me, this line of thinking hasn’t been helpful for jealous moments because I feel like I’m lying to myself. Some of the other strategies work better for me. Things that have already been mentioned, plus really thinking about WHY I’m jealous. Maybe it means that I am sad about my own past/relationships. Maybe it means that I truly want to put more into my career. Etc. Figuring out what I’m really yearning for helps me because then I can actually work toward the thing. Sometimes that involves taking concrete steps, and sometimes it’s more about mourning the past I wanted and feeling my feelings about that topic for a while.

        1. Yeah, for me trying to dispel envy by telling myself that the person is secretly miserable doesn’t work longterm, because it doesn’t get at the root of the problem (my insecurity). It’s like taking aspirin for a broken arm. I love your phrasing about yearning and agree that envy can be a powerful teacher about our own desires, fears etc.

          1. Yes, this! Saying somebody must be miserable or a terrible person doesn’t really seem very effective long term.

        2. Agree! Also… the whole thing about “maybe they are secretly miserable/lying/a fraud” usually backfires. Consciously or not, people who do that often try to “prove” that there is something wrong with the person they are jealous of, and that causes pain, drama, and ugliness.

      4. If you think someone’s life is perfect, then you just don’t know them well enough. Also, pretty privilege is real, but a lot of people who grow up that way – especially the pageant crowd – grew up with a lot of focus on looks and beauty and we all know that looks fade over time, which is probably distressing for them. Two sides of every coin, etc.

    5. Try not to focus on what they have and where you perceive you are lacking. Make a list of all the things you love about yourself and all your accomplishments regardless of anyone else’s. I literally keep a list in my notes app so I can read it when I’m feeling down. I know it sounds corny but it helps.

    6. Find ways to add more joyful experiences to your own life. Doesn’t have to be an expensive vacation – just something small that you plan and look forward to. Walking through a farmer’s market, a nice pastry from a local place, really good coffee in the morning, etc.

    7. Hugs. Remember that your husband chose *you* for your own self, not because you’re a carbon copy of his sisters. Be confident because you deserve to be! Be kind and respectful to your sisters-in-law because that’s the best way to go. (If they are actively unkind to you, then you can find matter-of-fact ways to protect yourself.) Look for some shared interest that doesn’t have to be your greatest passion but is something you can connect over and chat about. Possible topics: Kids (theirs, if you don’t have/don’t want), gardening, sports, food (whether dining out or at home) … Even people with “fabulous” lives appreciate it when someone else is interested in some aspect of their life.

      If somebody is doing activism or fundraising on a non-political topic (cancer research, support for families of kids with serious illnesses) that can also be a subject to bond over.

      Sarah posted above: “…I have a lovely husband and baby, a job I enjoy and am content with my boring life.” I also have a so-called boring life (not much travel, hardly any dining out, and no glamorous or highly-paid job) but it makes me happy. I have interesting friends and family and am active in my congregation and a book club. So-called boring can be wonderful!

      1. I was just coming here to post this same thing.

        I saw a funny Instagram post saying: “I saw a cool tattoo that said ‘Comparison is the Thief of Joy.’ I’m thinking about getting the same one, only bigger…”

      2. Re: “Comparison is the Thief of Joy”, I personally like the more positively-framed saying: “Happiness is an attitude of gratitude”, which is my life mantra.

    9. Usually people who are handed everything are absolutely awful humans. I went to a political event and met an elected official who I used to be super ‘jealous’ of, my jealously completely disappeared the second I watched her screech at waitstaff. Now whenever I’m jealous of someone I knock myself out of it by reminding myself they’re probably a bad person. You don’t amass billions of dollars without committing human rights violations.

      1. People always say something along the lines of “they’re secretly miserable” or “they must be terrible people” to questions like this, but the reality is there are a lot of beautiful, affluent, happy people who are kind. Focus on yourself and not comparing yourself to others, rather than inventing back stories about how they’re terrible or miserable, which may or may not be true.

        2. So I come from old money, in my younger years I often socialized with the type of crowd with their names on buildings. They truly are not kind. They definitely think they are, but they aren’t. Now I’m the black sheep of the family because I refused to sell my soul and I don’t have any of the family money but the moral peace that provides is invaluable.

          1. Right, but what you’re saying is that you’ve interacted with individuals who are wealthy and not kind. Please feel free to dislike them. I wouldn’t like them either.

            But there are people in this world who are wealthy and who are kind. There are people who are conventionally attractive and happy. There are people who have had easy lives. Meeting some who terrible and rich doesn’t change that fact.

          2. You are projecting SO much. And obviously your strategy for dealing with your own feelings hasn’t been a very successful one.

          3. I mean, yes, there’s some truth to the fact that being raised with huge amounts of money tends to create people who are spoiled or emotionally messed up. My husband has a friend who’s always been kind of aimless and depressed because his parents have a net worth in the hundred millions and he’s always been expected to take over his father’s successful business, not pursue his own passions. That’s a problematic situation to put your kid in, and it’s led to a lot of emotional and relationship problems for this guy. But it isn’t true of everyone who grew up with money, and telling yourself that all wealthy people are mean or miserable just seems like it says more about you and your insecurities than anything also.

            Also where did OP say the SILs came from big money? It says they make a ton of money now, but that doesn’t mean they grew up with a lot of money.

          4. Most of the people I know who make a ton of money did have everything handed to them even if they didn’t actually grow up rich. Their parents paid their college tuition. Or they got a biglaw job out of law school and got paid a zillion dollars to do nothing useful for 80 hours a week for several years. These kinds of things confer a huge advantage in life that is not really earned.

          5. Um, working 80 hours a week is not having everything handed to you. You may not think it’s socially useful work, but it’s work.

      2. There is nothing in her post that suggests they had everything handed to them, and your assumption that people you envy are probably bad people is…something that suggests some pretty deep insecurity to me.

    10. Spend more time away from them and out in the world. People around us have financial problems, health problems, kid problems, and career problems that they bring up at every turn. Seeing the full range of people, even locally in your community, should help reset your barometer for how much you have.

      Also, I’m not a big organized religion person but I do find it helpful to occasionally go to a service when I’m in a funk about superficial things. The emphasis on character, charity, and humility is something I’ve not been able to find elsewhere.

    11. Tangent here not directed at OP, but I have to say I bristle when everybody’s immediate reaction to these kinds of posts is “well they had everything handed to them.” You can’t possibly know that for sure and it seems a weird way to deal with these kinds of feelings. I’m sure that sometimes it is true and that they’re genuinely not nice people, like the other OP’s sister! But the instinct to *automatically* tear somebody’s success in some area of their life down because you’re jealous isn’t a very kind one, imo.

      1. Yeah, this board has (in many respects) a pretty serious case of tall poppy syndrome, and posts like this bring it out.

      3. I totally agree with this. I’m an attractive, smart, educated, successful professional woman and I’m sure plenty of people think this about me. But I survived a horrifically abusive childhood, put myself through school without any family support (financial or otherwise), and was once married to an alcoholic. People who meet me now would have absolutely no way of knowing any of this.

        1. But also, even if that weren’t your background, who cares? You don’t have to suffer through terrible trauma to deserve or earn nice things in life.

    12. I think of jealousy and insecurity as related but kind of different – jealousy is “I want that, I wish I had that” and maybe feels like a flavor of anger (it’s not fair that I don’t have that!). And insecurity is: “I’m not good enough because I don’t have that, something must be wrong about me that I want able to do XYZ” and deep down feels like a form of shame.

      Feelings are feelings, and sometimes just naming it is enough to help. But when I’m having a hard time letting go of the shame-insecurity version, what helps me is the kind-of hokey, what would I tell a friend who thought this about themselves? I would not give them a hard time for never making VP or whatever it is – I would remind them how funny/thoughtful/confident/etc they are! And I deserve to treat myself like I’d treat a friend.

  18. It’s been five years since I was last in New York City and seven years since I last saw a show on Broadway. I am taking my teen daughter to see a new musical on Broadway in June. How are people dressing for evening Broadway shows these days? Where I live, audience attire for touring shows runs the gamut from grubby jeans and sneakers to nice dresses and heels. I’m thinking of wearing a black linen midi dress with Birkenstock Mayaris for ease of walking, but at least the sandals feel awfully casual to me.

    2. Tbh, anything goes at Broadway shows these days… Your proposed outfit would be totally fine.

    3. People are pretty casual for Broadway and will get more dressed up for the Opera at Lincoln Square.

    4. Broadway audience attire these days runs the gamut from athleisure to church clothes. I would say most people are in nice jeans or summer dresses. Birkenstock Mayaris are totally fine for the theater (although are you sure they’re good for lots of walking? they kill my feet…if it were me I’d bring sneakers for the walking.)

    5. I think it sounds perfectly fine fashion-wise, but I’d be a bit afraid of people stomping on my bare toes in the theatre.

    6. I went to a Broadway show with my parents and teens. We all wore jeans and sweaters. There was a couple next to us who looked younger than us and they wore a tux and a gown plus fur coat. So, anything goes!

    7. The formality is fine, in fact the dress sounds great for the outing, but personally I avoid open shoes in Times Square/Broadway if you are going to be walking to/from/around.

  19. How do you eliminate cooking smells from your home? I live in a small apartment and feel like my whole house smells like what I cooked for dinner for a day or two after. I run my exhaust fan. I can open windows but they’re not near the kictchen.

    1. Try an air purifier? I also open windows across the apartment for a nice cross breeze, but I have a window in my kitchen so not sure if that would help if you don’t have a kitchen window.

    2. My air filter has some kind of charcoal filter in it as well as a HEPA layer. One of those layers seems to take care of it.

    3. I leave out coffee grounds and bowls of baking soda when I cook something stinky like hard boiled eggs.

    4. Don’t forget to also stick the exhaust fan filter in the dishwasher after wiping down any stains or grease around the stove.

      1. Can you tell me more? I didn’t know that the exhaust fan filter could be removed and I’ve never thought about putting a filter of any kind in the dishwasher…

        1. I haven’t put mine in the dishwasher – it wouldn’t fit – but there are washable filters in some (most?) kitchen exhaust fans. I pull mine out and clean in the bathtub with degreaser.

    5. This is when I bust out one of the fancy overpriced candles I received as a gift and enjoy the fragrance.

  20. Sorry if this is a duplicate post. My longer reply seemed to disappear.
    Hugs. Remember that your husband chose you for *yourself,* not because you’re a clone of his sisters. Be kind and respectful to them, and try to find some bland topic (doesn’t have to be your favorite passion) that helps you connect: gardening, food, the craziness of getting ready for the holidays… Even “fabulous” people like to have other people share a common interest. And if this doesn’t work, oh well. You don’t have to be each others’ BFFs.

    Sarah (the commenter with the jealous sister) said: “I have a lovely husband and baby, a job I enjoy and am content with my boring life.” She’s got lots of company! Us un-glamorous folks are the ones who hold together families, communities, and entire societies. Let’s hear it for boring!

  21. My fiancé and his brother planned an island resort trip with their parents before his brother’s upcoming wedding. Fiancé called me from the island today, voice shaking, and told me a story of how earlier today, his brother and him had an argument while kayaking. They came back to shore, and my fiancé went to take a bath and calm down. The brother follows him in, starts harassing him while he’s in the bath to try to get him out, and then opens the blinds from the bathroom which face directly to the resort beach, exposing my fiancé in the bath. My fiancé calls him an expletive and asks what’s wrong with him, which prompts the brother to start beating his head and then pushing his head under the water.

    Fiancé’s brother has always seemed extremely nice, considerate, caring, and gentle, but has an extremely tumultuous relationship with his current partner. My fiancé now wants nothing to do with him, and doesn’t want to have a relationship with him going forward. Their parents are supporting him, but still wanted to go out to dinner as a family a few hours after it happened. My fiancé paid for the trip, but I think is still struggling to set boundaries as he doesn’t want to disappoint his parents or cause tension.

    How do I support my fiancé amidst all this? They’re in a different time zone, and will be on this trip for a week and a half longer before coming back. To my mind, his brother’s behavior is physical abuse and assault, and it’s totally reasonable to not have a relationship with him as a result. Has anyone else dealt with anything similar? I don’t want to overblow it if it isn’t helpful.

      1. I would not even tell the parents/brother that he is living – get him the ticket and tell him to get to the airport and text them after he is on the plane. 10/10 chance they have a history of minimizing or dismissing the seriousness of brother’s behavior.

    2. Good Lord. If I were your fiance I would get on a plane and come home immediately, but I’m not him and neither are you. I think there is little you can do from where you are, other than to counsel calm and disengagement (because certainly the last thing this situation needs is another violent incident). And again, Good Lord.

      1. +1 Get him a flight and a car ride to the airport. You make your boundaries crystal clear to all in this situation by leaving.

      3. Yea the trip and the relationship are over. I think the hard part comes when you’re planning your wedding with your fiancé.

    4. There’s not a lot you can do. Just stay calm, and don’t get reactive. He has to handle this. Also, just step back a bit and watch the family dynamics play out. Surely this isn’t the first time the brother has been angry/aggressive/inappropriate. What is the family system around all this? Who does what, in reaction? Watch and see, because it’s the dynamic you’re marrying into.

      2. +1. Also, were you and the other partner invited on this trip? To me, that’s a very long trip to be taking with one’s childhood family without SOs if one is old enough to be getting married. Different families have different dynamics but to me even this trip is weird.

        1. Everything OP described the brother doing is horrific and not normal, but I don’t think the trip itself is weird. I’ve traveled with my parents without my husband (and we have kids, which makes it even more complicated to get away). It may not be super common for an adult to travel with their siblings and parents without partners, but that doesn’t mean it’s bad. When I read the first sentence of the post I thought “what a lovely trip” but then of course the post took a turn.

          1. I’m not saying it’s bad. I think it sounds nice too – but in my world, a more than 1.5 week trip with a nuclear family and no future spouses would be very unusual, and given the other dynamics (OP’s fiancé paying, the violence, and the parents’ imo weird response) I think it’s worth exploring how OP feels about it now.

        2. I agree that it’s strange. Both brothers are engaged and they go on a honeymoon style trip with their parents but without fiancées for 10+ days? Combined with all the other red flags about his family, especially the defending his brother against past abuse allegations, I’d definitely be very very careful about what you’re getting yourself into with this family.

    5. Coming at this from a different angle: your fiance is at an island resort in a foreign country with a different legal system, right? How confident are you both that he knows how to navigate the situation if his brother calls the police and claims fiance started the fight?

      Putting aside all other complications about money and tension with the parents, he should leave now for this reason alone.

    6. This is cray. Was fiance’s brother drunk or on drugs? I’m having trouble imagining a grown man acting like this unless something is truly off kilter. Have you noticed any type of abuse from him before this?

    7. So many questions. Is this normal behavior for the brother? What was the fight about? Are they sharing a room or can they all stay there but keep the brothers apart for the rest of the trip? Regardless, I think you need to let your fiancé figure this out for himself and support him in whatever he decides, as he knows his family best.

      I think my perspective may be shaped by the fact that my brothers acted like this as teenagers, constantly fighting and causing some real harm to each other at times. My parents were at their wits end, but it eventually stopped when the older one went away to college and 20+ years later they’re both fully functional members of society and you’d never guess that they used to behave like that. It’s obviously different when this happens with adult men, but siblings have a unique dynamic that can be hard to understand from the outside. In my brothers’ case, the older one would usually provoke the fight by getting under the skin of the younger one in exactly the right way, fully aware that he wouldn’t be able to restrain himself but would then get blamed for starting it. I don’t want to imply that’s what happened here, but just keep an open mind and don’t immediately jump to pushing him to cut his brother out of his life, at least not without knowing more about the history of the relationship. Obviously, you do want to make sure you both stay safe, and I’d also possibly be concerned for his fiancée’s safety, if that’s the root of his issues right now.

      1. What you described in the second paragraph gave my father complex PTSD. He grew up as the youngest brother and was tormented by his two older brothers who always denied they started anything. He’s estranged from both of them now.

    8. Ask your fiance what kind of logistics help he wants. I’d strongly press putting physical distance between brother and as a step 1. Ride to airport + flight out? Consult with an island attorney to see what it might look like if he makes a police report for the attack? Mental health consult with a therapist who specializes in helping victims of violence?

      I’d also be concerned about the brother becoming so violent seemingly out of the blue, though I would put it on the parents and not fiance to get brother help for that. Drugs, brain tumor, actually violent all along and good at hiding from you?

      2. You could waste a ton of time and money trying to get an island consult with a therapist or an attorney or you could get him on the plane now.

    9. OH my god. I don’t think you can overblow this. I would offer to start making logistical plans, and pay for them now and figure out splitting costs later if that’s something you’re able to do.

    10. Is the brother using marijuana? Marijuana-induced psychosis is a real thing, and I would do everything in my power to get fiance far, far away from the brother. If you need to fake a health emergency to give him cover for a hasty exit, so be it.

    11. This family has serious boundary issues. One brother tried to kill the other and the parents want to go out to dinner afterward? Your fiance was injured but doesn’t want to disappoint anyone by “making it a big deal?” He’s planning to stay over a week???

      IMO, this is the time for you to step in and tell him what to do – “honey, come home. I’ve ordered you a car and your flight leaves at 2:00.” He’s an adult and can say yes or no to your plan, but clearly he is NOT capable of setting boundaries within this family and needs external help.

    12. OP here – thank you all so much for the validation. For context, the brother doesn’t drink, but does sometimes take edibles, but I don’t think he was on them. My fiancé and his brother have never had a physical altercation before, even as kids. My boyfriend is extremely gently and sweet, and has never had a physical altercation with anyone.

      Something that sent a chill down my spine was a story about his brother having a police report against him when he was getting his master’s degree for holding a knife to his then-girlfriend’s neck during an argument. Brother was so steadfast that he didn’t do it, that she was lying, etc, and it seemed so out of character for him, that my fiancé flew to the brother’s university town to help him get a lawyer. The woman dropped the case, which I always thought meant she charges weren’t real. Now I wonder if the story was legitimate, at least partially, but that she like many victims didn’t want to fight the case. I am worried about the brother’s fiancé dealing with his rage.

      The argument leading up to it was silly. They were in a kayak, the brother was shaking the kayak, my fiancé got scared and asked him to stop, the brother continued to shake the kayak, my fiancé yelled to go back to shore. This continues until eventually they get to shallow enough water that my fiancé jumped out, before heading back to the room. The brother came in later, yelling about my fiancé needing to apologize to him, before everything else ensued.

      1. Your fiance’s brother is cruel and violent. He needs to come home ASAP. Throw money at this – this is an emergency in my eyes.

        1. Yes, this is wild.

          Your fiancé is the victim of abuse. Maybe it wasn’t physical in the past (or maybe he’s not telling you that), but there almost certainly was emotional abuse by the brother in the past. That’s one dynamic that could explain why your fiancé didn’t RUN to the airport himself and get on a plane. He might he wanting “permission” or a suggestion from someone else to do that because the people who are supposed to protect him (his parents!!) are not doing so. I’d tell him that I totally support whatever he does, but that I believe he should come home immediately and I will help take care of any logistics/economics that he needs help with.

      3. Maybe there’s more to it that you’re not saying here, but I’m puzzled why you’re not taking immediate action to get your fiancé home.

      4. Your second paragraph – talk about burying the lede!

        This guy is a horrible person. Your fiancé should get distance. Brother doesn’t get invited to the wedding, sorry not sorry.

        Both you and your fiancé should get therapy. It is hard to marry into that dysfunctional dynamic.

        1. I would never be alone in a room with the brother or let any other woman or child be alone with him.

      5. This is extremely concerning – I know sometimes something so bonkers happens that it’s hard to calibrate so I just want to reinforce your judgement that this is weird weird weird.

        Order of Operations:
        1- Strongly encourage your fiance to come home; offer to handle the logistics.
        2 – If he doesn’t want to, is there a safety plan type of action you can help him think through – or some other logistics – call with a lawyer maybe? I see the concern about whether he’s about to set boundaries with a dysfunctional family other commenters have raised, but I would not read too much into what he does in the immediate. It’s a pretty common reaction to violence to kind of want to regroup/sometimes be reflexively against anything else that it feels like someone is “making” you do (like insisting he comes home). Pay more attention to how he handles boundaries with his family long term over the next weeks, not in the next
        few days alone.
        3- In a few weeks, when everyone’s back home, suggest that he meet with his parents alone. Express how concerned he is about brother’s behavior. Is there a way for the family as a whole to encourage the brother to seek medical care? What does your fiance need moving forward – like is he not planning to invite the brother to get togethers, etc?
        4- Someone has to talk to the brother’s fiance. She deserves to know this, and the story about the knife. If your fiance’s family doesn’t want to tell her, to be honest, you should.

        2. This is wise and thoughtful and better than some of the knee jerk comments here. I will say, I don’t think you’re wrong about number 4, but if OP is the one to do this it could very well jeopardize her own relationship, depending on her fiancé’s ability and willingness to stand up for her against his family.

      6. The continuing to shake the kayak after being asked to stop is the kind of behavior that should be a huge red flag. I bet their history is full of instances of things that brother played off as a joke but were really about brother enjoying to exercise power and control over his brother and enjoy scaring him/threatening harm and then getting away with it with the parents because it ‘was just a joke’.

        I worry that your fiance is like a DV victim who thinks ‘he didn’t mean to hurt me’ or ‘he didn’t realize he was hurting me’.

      8. People often drop domestic violence charges because they’re exhausted and don’t feel it would be taken seriously (with good reason), and outsiders assume it’s because it didn’t actually happen. A knife to the throat isn’t a he said/she said gone wrong, and holding your fiancé’s head underwater is an act of serious, serious violence. This guy is dangerous, and I bet his parents are downplaying it because it’s hard to imagine someone you love doing something so terrible. I’ve seen crazy amounts of denial from people I know who are close to abusers.

        I think the best support you can offer your fiancé is in showing him how seriously you’re taking the situation and that you back him up 100%.

    13. Leave the trip immediately. Take photos of any injuries.

      Is there a family history of mental illness? Any reason to have concern re bipolar or schizophrenia?

    14. I don’t think it’s safe for your fiance to remain on this trip, and I think wanting nothing to do with his brother is proportionate and that leaving now would be a good boundary to set.

      His parents are not being as supportive as he thinks if they are pressuring him to keep the peace and not make a big deal about this. It is a big deal. They’re in denial because they don’t want to admit that one of their children is violent and dangerous. But your fiance wouldn’t be the one “causing tension” if he left. (And I wouldn’t even be thinking about the money; I’d pay a lot of money not to have my head beaten or be half drowned!)

  22. there are so many holes here. i just can’t believe that this happened out of nowhere, either your fiance is leaving out details or there’s some kind of history.

  23. OP here – thank you all so much for the validation. For context, the brother doesn’t drink, but does sometimes take edibles, but I don’t think he was on them. My fiancé and his brother have never had a physical altercation before, even as kids. My boyfriend is extremely gently and sweet, and has never had a physical altercation with anyone.

    Something that sent a chill down my spine was a story about his brother having a police report against him when he was getting his master’s degree for holding a knife to his then-girlfriend’s neck during an argument. Brother was so steadfast that he didn’t do it, that she was lying, etc, and it seemed so out of character for him, that my fiancé flew to the brother’s university town to help him get a lawyer. The woman dropped the case, which I always thought meant she charges weren’t real. Now I wonder if the story was legitimate, at least partially, but that she like many victims didn’t want to fight the case. I am worried about the brother’s fiancé dealing with his rage.

    The argument leading up to it was silly. They were in a kayak, the brother was shaking the kayak, my fiancé got scared and asked him to stop, the brother continued to shake the kayak, my fiancé yelled to go back to shore. This continues until eventually they get to shallow enough water that my fiancé jumped out, before heading back to the room. The brother came in later, yelling about my fiancé needing to apologize to him, before everything else ensued.

    1. Oh my god. Obviously she wasn’t lying!

      So now you know. Violence isn’t out of character for him.

      Time to draw boundaries.

    2. My first instinct was to ask if there is a history of DV. It sounds like there is. I would not attend the upcoming wedding, even if your fiance starts suggesting his position on this is changing.

  24. I’m looking for a personal stylist, but for makeup. In other words, someone who will sit down with me for an hour and go through the makeup I typically wear and help me figure if its working or not, and if not, recommend different techniques or products. In particular, help with shade matching and showing me how to actually apply products. Is this a thing? I know this exists to an extent — or at least it used to — at Nordstrom and Bloomingdales, but I don’t necessarily want everything from one brand and the thought of going from counter to counter is daunting. I have been frustrated at Sephora because I feel like the sales associates there are not actually very helpful or skilled — and I’m going for a different look at 35 than the 20ish year olds that work there. Any recommendations are appreciated! I’m in the Bay Area.

    1. I did this with a makeup artist in Philly and it was great. I think you need an independent makeup artist vs someone who works in a store.

    2. I would go with an appointment with the brand you like the best. You don’t have to buy the entire face they give you, just pick the products that seem unique to you.

    3. You might want to try Credo Beauty, they have a good curated selection of makeup and I’m pretty sure they offer this as a service. Might be around the $30-50 mark, but you normally get it free if you buy some items. I find that the sales folks tend to be a larger age range and might be better for your needs.

    4. I like Cheri Voyage, you can see her videos on YouTube if you want to check out her style. She’s on the West Coast and books make up lessons. I’d prefer a makeup artist that’s not affiliated with a brand, and one who can do makeup on older people, and adapt to your needs vs mimicking their brand style.

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