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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
If it were socially acceptable, I’d probably be dressed in head-to-toe animal prints every day. I can’t explain it. The heart wants what the heart wants. Since I don’t think that look would fly in most offices, this leopard-print blouse is a more subtle way to sneak in some fun animal prints without getting too crazy. This color palette is pretty neutral, so you could wear it with a range of colors. I think it would look pretty with a dark emerald or eggplant-colored pencil skirt.
The shirt is $26.99 and on sale for $23, but it comes down to $16.10 once you add it to your cart. It's available in sizes XS–XXL and comes in three other prints and solid black. Flutter-Sleeve V-Neck Top
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Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
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- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
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Anonymous
Thoughts on the new Mary Jane from Rothy’s? I think the bow looks dumb.
busybee
Oh wow. Yeah that’s an awful shoe.
CPA Lady
I think they’re adorable! I am going to get some. I’m trying to pick between the pink and the navy.
Never too many shoes...
Me too! I am not sure they are worth what they are charging for them, but that is another story.
anon
ugly af
Housecounsel
I just looked and I don’t hate them. I wouldn’t wear them for anything work-related, though.
Anon
I’m not a fan. I might like them more if the bow was attached on the inside, but it just looks added to the outside like an afterthought.
Anonymous
This is my problem with it too. It looks like their regular shoe with a bow tied around it. It doesn’t really look intentional.
Anonymous
They’re not my style, but I don’t hate them either. Obligatory promo code if anyone wants to try them and report back: https://share.rothys.com/x/waBu2b
Anonymous
And another – https://share.rothys.com/x/10SWIQ
Anony
I’m not a Rothy’s user, and assumed I’d hate them from the comments here, but when I looked at them I realized they would be good for my feet. I have the triangular/duck shaped feet that are narrow, and my heels slip out of every shoe I wear.
NOLA
I think they’re cute, but I don’t wear flats much and haven’t tried Rothy’s.
Anonymous
So cute. I can’t tie a bow though so if it unravels…
T
How do you wear athletic shoes?
Anon
Obviously she means she can’t tie a bow and make it look cute.
Anon
Obviously she means she can’t tie a bow and make it look cute.
Doodles
The bow looks like a foot bandage. Same material as when I had to wrap by swollen ankle. Ugly.
Anonymous
They look like they’d constantly come undone, and I’d never be able to get the bow to look like a nice bow as opposed to a regular tied shoe. I’m not opposed to the concept, but the execution looks poor.
Anon
So funny that there are such opposing views. These are right up my alley, and I’ve never been interested in Rothy’s before.
SSC
Samesies.
anon
they look cute but I can’t justify the Rothys prices for what they are.
Anon
I’ve been thinking a lot about a recent article in the Atlantic titled something like “The Nuclear Family Was a Mistake.” (No link to avoid mod.)
As someone who moved a lot growing up, and ultimately moved far away from all immediate and extended family, plus all long-term friendships, I think about life-long connections and potential old-age loneliness a lot. I don’t have or plan to have kids, and while I’d like to think I’ll have lots of friends in the community, we all hear stories of older people who don’t.
Is anyone else grappling with trying to plan for this sort of stuff at an early-ish age? Strategies?
Anonymous
This is anecdata of course but I lived in an apartment building with a lot of seniors for a few years and the seniors always played cards, got coffee, went on walks etc. There was such a strong sense of community and friendship among the senior inhabitants of my building that they did something together every single day.
Anonymous
My maternal side lives shockingly long (mid90s). Always at home until the last couple of months (usually stroke/broken him and quick spiral down). They have outlived their friends, so it is the younger generation (themselves not young) and their family/friends who is left to come. It’s a wide web, including neighbors (b/c who who has an elderly retiree neighbor ignores them? They are home during the day and watch your house when you are away; you or your kids shovel for them and move their trashcans) and service providers (their housekeepers and the yard guys seem to come, but this is also in a very small town).
Anon
I had an elderly next door neighbor, Betty, for several years that I ignored. I could talk to her if we were both in our backyards at the same time, but she was a hoarder (it was a nightmare when her family had to clean out her house) and a recluse and she absolutely did not want anyone coming to the door.
My daughter was only 3 when we moved in and was kind of obsessed with the idea of her, basically thought Betty was her new grandmother, and talked about Betty all the time. If she did art she was going to show it to Betty. Maybe Betty would like to see her preschool etc. But as far as I could tell, Betty, who had never married or had kids, just thought my kids were a pain in the neck and too loud in the backyard.
Anonymous
I am Betty. I would be polite to your child if she talked to me while we’re all in the yard, but no, I don’t want to see her artwork or preschool or be a surrogate grandparent.
Anon
My parents moved into a 55-plus apartment complex a few years ago and it was like they got instant best friends. They go to potluck dinners and cardplaying club and for walks all the time. My dad has golfing buddies for any day of the week he wants to go. I think it’s easier to make friends when pressures around work and kids aren’t always front and center.
I do think about lifelong connections and how this will look as I get older as well. I am still friends with my friends from high school, but we all live far from each other and honestly don’t see each other very much (mostly keep in touch via text and phone calls). We’ve talked about, as we get older, maybe moving closer to each other, but I have an only child and very honestly I see myself moving closer to wherever he is when he gets older, especially if he has children. At one point we had a robust network of couple friends but over the years, they all moved away and we haven’t made new friends very easily as everyone in our neighborhood has much younger kids, seems very busy and not really interested in connecting, or is a lot older than us.
One thing I am planning to do as I get older is join in on community activities I don’t have time for now. I worked in a bookstore in college and we had lots of older folks come to our author events, and afterwards groups of total strangers would go have coffee together. We had several book clubs that met in the store. In my city we have hiking groups, there’s a Sunday musical society, etc. I have also thought about joining the Unitarian church in our city, which aligns with my values and is very active. I also think I’ll be able to get more involved in volunteering in the community. The connections will be there; I’ll just have to work harder at getting out of the house and making them.
You got it
Yes, this. Thank you for writing.
Anon
I’m saving more than a person of my income might normally, in hopes of being truly financially free, and have chosen a small, simple house that is reasonably accessible and easy to take care of.
I don’t expect I’ll have a lot of friends in the community, so I just do my best to be a good neighbor.
anon
My observation is that seniors who are involved in their community — whether that’s through church or volunteering or something else that meets regularly — fare much better than those who try to fly solo. My 93-year-old grandpa, for example, has a much better social network than my ILs, who are in their early 70s and live only a mile away from us. They also have a decent amount of extended family around but those aren’t the types of relationships where you see each other several times a week. It’s given me a lot to think about. I have kids, but if left to my own devices, I could easily become isolated because I’m not much of a “joiner” anymore.
Vicky Austin
Just based on my grandparent anecdata, 1000%. One set don’t see anyone but family and the occasional high school friends (who are of course becoming rarer). The other set had full lives even in retirement and friends to engage with from many aspects of their lives (neighbors, church, old work friends, the guy they bought fresh raspberries from, etc.). One set was much happier in old age; you can probably guess which.
Anon
My husband and I upended our lives to move closer to my 3 siblings. My kids (7 and 5) are growing up with 7 of their cousins who are all close in age, and they are super close. (We have to actively encourage everybody to develop their own friend group because they are so obsessed with their cousins.) We are also close to my siblings and partners, and my parents have a house here too, so they are frequent visitors but have their own space. While the move was painful (miss my friends and old life), it helped that it led to better career opportunities. I feel very, very grateful that my kids will always (well, I hope) have a tribe of people who love them unconditionally. My siblings and I support each other (day care pick ups, grocery drop offs, driving kids around) so that each of us can manage our careers and family lives. People often comment that we are lucky, and I know that is right. This is largely luck. But I’m happy to have it.
Anony
This is such a wonderful gift for your children. One of the absolute best.
Well done.
Seafinch
Don’t sell yourself short. You have done a lot to make this happen. I know a lot of my peers who assume they can’t do this sort of thing. I hear it all the time. Luck is also made and you and you made it. You took risks and made sacrifices. Bravo!
anon
This is wonderful. Your kids are incredibly fortunate!
Rainbow Hair
I desperately want my sister to move to our hood (that direction makes sense, as my parents are here as well, and other siblings are nearby, and where she currently lives is prohibitively expensive) … I imagine how amazing it would be for my Kiddo to grow up with her cousins nearby. It’s already such a blessing (yes, that’s cheesy, but also it is the right word!) for her to grow up with her grandparents a few blocks away.
anne-on
I will also say that you are VERY lucky not to have grown up in a VCHOL city (or one that rapidly gentrified – San Fran, Seattle, etc). I simply can’t afford to move back to where I grew up and have the same quality of life as I do in the ‘burbs (plus honestly my husband hates the big city). I do wish my kiddo could see family more often but it’s just not feasible for us to move, and they don’t want to give up the city lifestyle.
Ribena
I grew up in a VHCOL suburb of a HCOL city. Worst of both worlds from that respect
Anon
I’ve always wanted to live in a cohousing community. I’m married with kids, but I still chafe at the expectation that my life will be so exclusively oriented around my nuclear family. Alas, there’s not one in my current city and I don’t have the time or energy to try to start one. Maybe when my kids are grown.
pugsnbourbon
I’m hoping for a Golden Girls setup myself.
Coach Laura
I want to start a co-housing community when I retire, even though I have kids. ideally, it would be an age-mixed place. I would love to be an honorary grandma to someone and like the idea of families trading babysitting and/or meal prep, dinner parties. My sister and I have talked about a golden girls arrangement too, although my daughter says she’s going to build me an in-law unit/ADU in her backyard or basement.
I also have been to many retirement homes that provide meals and with my celiac disease I wouldn’t be able to eat the communal meal in most as they don’t make allowances for it. I assume if someone is vegan or ovo-lacto vegetarian or on a religious diet, they wouldn’t be able to eat there either. They told me a plain lettuce salad with vinegar and oil and a fresh fruit plate were the only things they could guarantee would be safe. Oh, and a plain baked potato. Not exactly a balanced diet or something that one could eat forever, plus you’re paying $$$ monthly that includes food and you can’t opt out.
My parents are in an over-55 condo community, and they have tons of friends and activities and so many busybodies. But it provides no meals and services like cleaning or in-home care have to be purchased by the residents: This requires lots of income or a long-term care plan with good benefits. And being of sound mind or having family support for logistics. So they are 88 and going to be forced to move somewhere with meals when they can no longer cook or drive.
As they say, getting old isn’t for sissies.
Anon
I also read that article last weekend and find it really interesting. The traditional nuclear family of a mom, dad, and 2.5 kids was drilled in to my head as the norm so much when I was a kid, I found it really interesting to learn that it was only really prevalent from 1950-1965.
We were not close to extended family growing up, and although I’m close to my brother he lives across the country from me. I do however have an extremely close group of friends who see each other multiple times a week. Who knows how that will change as we start having kids, but I hope that they will be my future kid’s extended family-by-choice. I can imagine a future where we have weekly dinners at each other’s houses, and our kids are off playing together. I do think it is kind of sad that it’s not the norm to have extended family-like relationships, but I also understand how it is very hard to develop those types of relationships.
Anon
I didn’t read the article but it seems to me to be a uniquely regional and/or cultural phenomenon. I was born and raised in the south (major city fwiw) and don’t really know anyone who was raised here that truly grew up with a “nuclear family” only focus. Of course the primary family unit was the priority, but everyone had a big network of aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents and that even extended to grandparent’s siblings and their kids kids. It often gets to a point where you don’t even bother figuring out how you’re related it’s just “cousin” or “aunt/uncle” relation.
But I’ve met a lot of transplants, primarily white, urban, and from the East or West coast, whose family is scattered around the country and grew up knowing their extended family but not seeing them much or having close relationships with them.
cbackson
FWIW, I was born and raised in a major city in the south and my family absolutely fell in the nuclear family model. I did know people who had the big, sprawling extended families, but they were the exception rather than the rule. So I think there’s probably an additional layer of some sort that contributes to whether your world growing up seems to be nuclear family first, or extended family-centric. I’m just not sure what it is.
Anon
I’d presume socioeconomic class. My extended family was comfortable in the sense that no one was struggling to eat and everyone owned their homes and remained gainfully employed but we weren’t jet setting around the country so most holidays and recreational time was spent with family, and we helped each other out instead of hiring out services – so you’d call uncles to help move or paint, you’d call aunts, grandma and cousins to help set up a kids birthday party.
Anon
You might find the article interesting. One of the points he makes is that people with economic means can hire people to fulfill the roles that extended family used to fill but that people who make less cannot do that are are left to function as best they can.
Of Counsel
I am originally from the rural South and this used to be the case – but has become much less so. When I was a child my grandparents and almost all of my parents’ aunts and uncles lived in the same area. But starting with the generation born in the 60’s, everyone has moved away for economic reasons. My grandmother had six children and only one spent the majority of his life in our home town, although another recently returned in her retirement. I am one of three and only one has stayed, etc.
cbackson
The military was a major reason my extended family moved away – they enlisted, got stationed elsewhere, and many didn’t come back.
Seventh Sister
One data point – my parents grew up in different cities in KS. Both grew up middle to lower-middle class and while they got good jobs and degrees (courtesy of Uncle Sam, don’t get me started on their current political views), they weren’t going to be successful if they stayed in their not-even-very-small hometowns. My mom could kind of work anywhere, but my dad’s degree was much more useful if he could move to work in the defense industry, so they moved. Their friends were our extended families, mostly other people that had moved to work in the defense industry near my hometown.
At this point, basically all of my KS and SW OK relatives have moved away (save 2-3), almost all for economic reasons, starting in the late 6os-early 70s.
While I do think my mom and her sister are close because they live about 50 miles away from each other (and for my family, that’s close), I think it’s also luck and their personal preference since they just sort of like each other’s company. My father’s family (including his only brother and my only cousins) are incredibly distant and pretty darn unkind, no matter how many overtures get made. My in-laws and BILs are close, but we see them less often than people might imagine. Some of this is what researchers would call “kin work” – I like my BILs well enough and am at peace with my ILs, but I’m not going to be cruise director of all of us hanging out every weekend.
Seventh Sister
Also I’d love to ask the family members of the author whether he ever does carpool or figures out when to buy new pointe shoes for the tween or buys more paper towels. I bet he doesn’t even take in the trash cans from the curb.
Anon
Thanks for the recommendation, that was an interesting read. I’m not close to my extended family, but I am close to several friends I’ve had for 20+ years, and even though they’re starting to have kids and grow their own families, we’re still close and I know they would be there for me if I had an emergency or something even if I were single.
Anon
So I’m not married and no kids at age 40 (and probably never) so yeah loneliness is a factor now and will probably be going forward. Right now you can mask it a bit with work work work. Though I have seen enough retirees to know that when work goes away, if you don’t have something else, it’s not a happy situation. (And I don’t believe in — oh I will just work until I can’t anymore because I have also seen a TON of people get laid off from 55-65 in various industries and never be gainfully employed professionally again even if they had thought they’d work until 75, so I’m not banking on having a choice there.) I don’t have many friends to start with — I used to but I’ve moved around and they weren’t super tight connections to begin with so with them having young families and me not having kids to bring to their kids’ birthday parties, yeah — we have polite lunches 1-2 times/yr.
The only “strategy” I can think of is going to a 55+ community at that age, in an effort to have some people around just to chat with even if we aren’t BFFs. But from what I understand some of those are REALLY pricey (though IDK much about them — maybe if you just want an apt/home with no services it’s not that expensive; but I know friends’ parents paying 5000k/mo for apartments in places that are otherwise cheap like Houston — though maybe there’s some more assisted living things there?). And maybe get with one of those vacation tour companies that are attractive to seniors. Sure they’ll be couples traveling, but IDK I am (maybe naively) hopeful that when people get older and their kids aren’t with them, they are more open to being around others in different life situations — single, no kids etc. Because right now I’m not seeing that AT ALL. At age 39, honestly women ONLY want to be friends if you have kids and the kids are their kids’ ages and they can play; everything else is like polite lunches at work but no genuine connection outside professional life.
Anon
I’m child-free and I find it very difficult to find non-mom friends, as you said. I trend toward friends either too young to have started a family, or old enough to be empty nesters. I’ve heard some good things about Meetup, but haven’t yet tried it myself.
Anony
+1 I’m here with you!
Nudibranch
Ditto here
Anon
Hello, I’m 40 and a mom with kids. I will say that the intense period with kids is limited to the first few years and things get better from there. When the youngest kid is 5+ is when parents start to come out of the tunnel and look around and try to reconnect with their pre-parent selves whether it be hobbies or friends. The biggest disconnect for me is with friends who have very different lifestyles, regardless of whether they have kids or not. For example I have drifted away from 2 close college friends – one married no kids and the other married with kids. The one who is married with kids has very different hobbies and we can’t find much to talk about. I like to read, do yoga, discuss current affairs etc. and she does none of those things but is into bollywood dance and socializing with the other women who are in that class with her. Her attitude to childrearing is also very different from mine because it is laissez-faire and I am fairly strict about stuff like screen time, so it’s hard for us to hang out with our kids and apply different standards.
On the other hand I am friends with another single career lady friend who I’ve known for many years. She and I did a charity walk with my kid in a stroller. She joins me at parks and other outings where my kids come along. I do need someone who is tolerant of my kids though, as it’s hard for me to make time for friends minus kids that much (when I also do my fitness and other hobby activities without kids).
Have hope and don’t neglect to reach out to your mom friends! Offer to join them in whatever they are doing – even soccer games or whatever. Be a little flexible and I’m sure they would love to hang out with you!
Anon
Thank you! I’m currently in the thick of 2 toddler parenting with a 60-80/hour a week job, so your comment that this intense period will pass was just what I needed to hear today. :)
Kanye East
I would like to discuss the substance of this article, but I could not finish it because I can’t stand D*v*d Br**ks.
(He’s so bad I have to disemvowell him)
Seventh Sister
I had to swallow my bile several times – he is *SO* irritating. I was trying to explain to my husband why I thought Br**ks was so vile, and all I could put together was, “he’s the old guy at the party who calls me names and tells me I’m not very pretty when I decline to get coffee with him next week.”
Anonymous
After my FIL passed, my MIL moved into a community with condos and skilled nursing. The condo complex provides a wide range of activities. If you are an extrovert it’s a great fit.
Anonymous
I live in the midwest. I could really use a quiet solo beach vacation somewhere warm. Probably over a long weekend in April. Any suggestions? Bonus if I can fly direct from Chicago or Minneapolis. Usually spend less than $1k.
Anon
I love Cancun. You can fly there non-stop from Chicago and I think probably from Minneapolis too.
anonymous
South Beach, Miami. The Ritz Carlton is really nice and has a lovely pool and beach area with a spa.
BeenThatGuy
+1 I did this as my first solo trip and had an amazing time. The pool staff was super friendly and the spa was fantastic. There is enough to do/eat in walking distance and I felt very safe.
AFT
Cancun is so easy to get to from Chicago! Tons of direct flights and a relatively short trip. Chicago area elementary school sping breaks seem to mostly wrap up in the first 2 weeks of April, so flight prices may improve starting mid April.
FFS
We’re upgrading from a queen to a king next month and I’m trying to decide on bedding. I think I prefer quilts to duvets/comforters, and I despise non-functional bed pillows. My absolute favorite quilt came from Anthro 10+ years ago, but nothing there is thrilling me. I’ve looked at Pottery Barn and Crate and Barrel and nothing thrills me. Any other good places I should be checking out? And side question, do I need to move up to king size pillows as well, or just have the extra room in the pillowcase with my standard pillows?
Anon
I think pillowcases that are too big for the pillows looks sloppy and would drive me nuts, but I’m weird that way. But you could use king size sheets and get separate standard size pillowcases for your pillows. I have a Pottery Barn linen quilt that I love because I’m a hot sleeper. Look at Macy’s, they have tons of bedding.
Anonymous
The Company Store has amazing bedding, including quilts.
Anonymous
We have 3 standard size pillows across our king bed. I find the king/queen pillows a bit big.
The original Scarlett
I replaced all our duvets with Parachute’s cotton comforters (called light as air or something) and it is a delightful product. I like a clean, white comforter look and this has that without the hassle of amp duvet and is still quite warm. (At the moment though it’s hiding under a washable Pendleton throw because we got a sweet little rescue pup who likes to hang out on our bed)
anon
Dumb question — how do you keep the white comforter clean, around the area where your face touches it? We have a light-colored duvet that is just scuzzy and gross at the top, despite my best efforts to wash it frequently.
Anon
?? I’ve literally never had this issue. I wash my face before I go to bed, and I wash my white quilt frequently.
CPA Lady
Some people have oils in their skin that discolor fabric. My husband is one of those people. His pillows turn yellow under the pillow case. Mine don’t. But I have dry skin and he has oily skin.
We have a white quilt and I wash it with clorox bleach every once in a while. Stays nice and white.
anon
Yeah, I wash my face before bed, too — and it happens anyway. It’s possible that DH and I are just oily beasts.
Anon
Soak in a degreaser (more of an heavy cleaning product than a laundry product… check Lowe’s, an auto parts store or a janitorial supply) before washing. Some folks just have oilier skin than others.
The original Scarlett
I use a top sheet so my face doesn’t touch it – not for everyone though
Anon
Someone on here recommended Jolie Kerr and it has changed my life. My husband turns sheets yellow. Bleach is not the answer! Bleach will make yellow body fluids stains worse.
A hot presoak cycle using Oxyclean and then a longer cycle wash with detergent and the fabric softener dispenser filled with white vinegar will fix you right up. Don’t use dryer sheets. They just leave a residue.
I did the above about 3 times and then my white sheets looked brand new. I was ready to throw them away, which would have been a shame as they are 800 thread count Pima cotton and the best sheets I’ve ever owned.
anonymous
Kohls or Macys.
Anon
TJ Maxx, Marshalls and Home Goods generally have decent bedding. Our last quilt bedding set came from Sierra (formerly Sierra Trading Post) online. I prefer natural-fiber bedding and this set was all-cotton.
We’ve been in a king for about 12 years and we started out with king-size pillows, but didn’t like them. They’re hard to move around in the night if you want to flip the pillow over or bunch it differently under your head/neck. We use multiple standard-size pillows on the bed and no, we don’t use all of them every night, but like in a hotel, we have kind of a “pillow buffet” – some are memory foam, some are down, some are synthetic fill. I get migraines and have problems with my neck sometimes and different pillows feel better to me at different times.
Anon
I passionately hate king size pillows. My arms aren’t long enough to get the pillowcases on without a fight, and they don’t make a difference to how well I sleep.
Anon
I hate them too. Mine would always collapse in the middle, but because they were so dang long, I could barely get them fluffed up again. I also don’t need that much pillow and I don’t need to waste that much time wrestling a case on.
Telco Lady JD
We just got a duvet cover from Brooklinen. It. Is. DELIGHTFUL. Soft while still being smooth and cool. I plan to upgrade our sheets soon.
Housecounsel
We have the Ugg Avery bedding and love it.
Anon
Brentwood homes has my absolute favorite bedding – it is amazing quality for the price (if you consider $100 dollar pillows reasonable). Their bedding isn’t decorative but it is fantastic – I’d just get a washable duvet cover from anywhere.
NOLA
I shopped for a quilt for a long time before picking mine from Pier 1. It’s not going to hold up to a lot of washing, but it’s pretty and a good weight.
Senior Attorney
We have a lightweight linen quilt from Pottery Barn and we love it: https://www.potterybarn.com/products/belgian-flax-linen-diamond-quilt-flagstone/?catalogId=84&sku=8457509&cm_ven=PLA&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=Bedding%20%3E%20Quilts%20%26%20Coverlets&cm_ite=8457509&gclid=Cj0KCQiAnL7yBRD3ARIsAJp_oLZwdLvJkCrV7I8w-cTjEu_48svGJav01G_omCNCRhBKE6G7KDpBorAaAlpEEALw_wcB
Anonanonanon
We have two king-sized white blankets (from target, actually) that get washed and rotated every time the sheets do. Our bedding is white sheets and pillow cases, crisp, white blanket, and a comforter with a white duvet cover folded at the bottom of the bed. (we have a similar setup for one of our kids with the quilt folded at the bottom). I like it all white, it feels like I’m crawling into a clean hotel bed, which may not be for everyone.
The white blanket setup has been a godsend in terms of laundry. The duvet cover doesn’t have to get washed too often. I use these oxiclean bright white packs you drop in the wash and wash the white bedding in hot water and it comes out nice and bright.
Definitely recommend getting king-sized pillows.
Curious
I got our quilt from Padukas on Etsy and love it!
NYC Girl
The White Company and William Sonoma Home
paging ITC fashion from Wednesday
I didn’t see your comment because I was… at the ITC at a hearing but here’s my experience (about half my practice is in front of the Commission.)
Are you going to be in front of the Commissioners or an ALJ? Generally I think the trials in front of the ALJs are more formal, basically everyone in suits (although I think pants, black tights, and Varas would all be fine.) If you’re in front of the Commission or especially the Staff it’s even less formal. I always wear a suit, but a dress with a non matching jacket is fine (I’ve seen women in wrap dresses). I’ll try to check back on this comment during the day, happy to answer any questions!
Anonymous
My new modern green building gives lip service to being accessible. It is not. It has handicapped parking, but all of the doors to the elevators require you to unlatch a heavy door and pull it open (and one side has that + stairs). Doorways are very narrow. Inside, the whole swipe key + pull heavy door means that no one who isn’t fairly strong and who has two empty hands can really manage. When you carry an umbrella + normal work items, it is unmanageable for me. Bathroom doors are not only heavy, but most stalls are tiny (like I’m 5-4 and thin and if I were much larger, I’d brush the walls walking in because the doors swing into the stalls. It’s like no disabled person (or even an older person — my MIL could not manage with the heaviness of the doors) is required to road test things? It’s a new build, all LEED-certified and with all the smugness.
Anon
I’m shocked this passed building inspections. I thought every where in the US had requirements about being accessible that, at a minimum, required those buttons to open doors.
pugsnbourbon
Yeah I’d raise a stink about that. Buttons are universal design that benefits everyone, from folks who use wheelchairs to people carrying heavy items (as in OP’s example). I’d contact the building manager or superintendent.
And I agree with others that LEED and ADA are two totally different things, but I can understand being frustrated that a brand-new building that touts itself as the cutting edge doesn’t supply very basic and legally required items.
Anon
Maybe I am missing something, but as someone who has trouble with these things, my sense is that there are a lot of requirements that just aren’t consistently met or enforced.
pugsnbourbon
Unfortunately, you’re correct. ADA is civil-rights law, and it’s terrible that it’s often treated as an afterthought. I will say that recently I’ve seen greater movements toward universal design, but we still have a long way to go.
Anon
There are people some might call ambulance chasers who are wheelchair bound and go around looking for non-compliant curbs and doors and bathrooms, so that they can file lawsuits and collect a nuisance value settlement.
But these people are also the only way building owners will ever make an effort to comply, so I hope lots of them find your building.
Anon
I’ve been thinking about this issue on airplanes too. I’ve noticed that the bathrooms are getting smaller than ever (I’m seeing more curved sink designs that protrude into the limited space) and I have legitimately had to turn sideways to get my hips in as a size 10-12. There seems to be a serious accessibility issue – a size 18/20 woman might not even be able to get in, much less take care of ordinary needs. Are you in a position to speak up at your workplace?
Anonymous
Both of my SILs are morbidly obese and they don’t fly. I think that minivans are the only vehicle accessible enough (large front seats / width / very large spacing in middle row; no issues climbing up like SUVs have). I know that they are technically able-bodied, but my grandmother was merely large and was total dead weight if she fell or was unsteady and I could not have helped her into an SUV (minivan was also fine, as you can sit to get into it).
Honey
As someone with a disability, I can tell you that airplanes are majorly lacking in accessibility. I just hold it — I can’t even imagine how I’d get in and out of one of their bathrooms.
My other pet peeves include the fact that some airplanes still don’t have armrests that go up and that most staff aren’t trained in the right way to help me.
I lobe traveling (and have to do it for work) so I put up with it, but man I wish they started thinking about how to make planes more accessible!
Anon
I’m not sure what the LEED certification has to do with accessibility or lack thereof? They’re two totally separate things, and crappy design is crappy design. Don’t set up a false dichotomy attempting to, I dunno, pit those who value sustainable design against the disabled. It’s quite possible to do both and happens all the time.
Anonymous
I have no idea what LEED entails, but in my city it is sort of seen as “best features” and a lot of businesses mandate leasing in LEED buildings. It is also new build or new rehabs, so you think it would be more accessible not less. I’ve not seen stairs to get to elevators in parking decks . . . ever? And one set of doors is always motorized; having call buttons in my city is for really old grandfathered buildings and historic ones.
My prior building did have a guy in a wheelchair in it and plenty of older people (retirees going to matinees) as well as people with strollers using the parking deck.
Anon
You can download the LEED certification rubrics if you want to get into the weeds. Accessibility is not a part of it. At all. If the perception in your city is that certification stands for more than what’s on there, then the perception is flat-out wrong.
The design shouldn’t have been approved as-constructed if it’s not accessible (seems like an ADA nightmare), but that’s on the city for approving the design.
Anonymous
Well I think the point is that if it’s LEED certified then it’s obviously brand new, and therefore it’s required to be ADA accessible.
Anon
Not true. You can retrofit to LEED standards – perhaps not platinum, but to a lesser level.
Anonymous
But this building is brand new, according to OP
Anon
I’m aware. I’m responding to the commenter above me who made an incorrect statement that LEED = new building.
Anon
Agree, having non-motorized doors, lack of elevators, and thin doorways (especially thin doorways) has nothing to do with LEED certification or sustainable building.
Your building is new and, resultingly, probably crappily built.
Anon
LEED doesn’t have anything to do with ADA accessibility. New build commercial buildings must meet ADA standards. Bathroom accessibility can be met via providing an HC bathroom, so that comment alone isn’t concerning. I you think it’s a legit issue, can you call the city building inspector/code enforcer? I’d be floored to learn this was truly new, ground up construction and didn’t meet ADA requirements.
Architect
LEED has to do with sustainability. ADA is required for all new buildings. That said, it is often not universal. What works for one person does not work for another. It is very possible that the building passed what is code required and it still does not work for you. There are provisions that employers need to make accommodations for employees when what was built does not work for you. I have never worked with a client to do this but I am aware that it is possible.
Anon
I’ve been thinking a lot about accessibility lately as I’ve been navigating my city with a broken foot. There are so many concerning things I hadn’t noticed before, like how hard it is to walk on cobblestones! Yes they are historic and pretty but really hard to balance on. We lack safe drop off zones and adequate handicapped parking. I had to attend a work dinner downtown recently and had someone drop me off and pick me up. It was freezing rain and everything was covered in slush. I covered my cast with a plastic garbage bag and my ride double parked for 30 seconds in front of the restaurant so I’d have the shortest possible walk. The cops stopped and harassed my ride for the brief double park. My ride explained I had a broken foot and they acknowledged seeing the cast but still gave him a warning. What are we supposed to do? I’m incredibly privileged I have a temporary disability and worry for those that have to navigate this mess all of the time.
Juliska
Many years ago I worked in a small office building that had big double entry doors. It was impossible for me to open the doors with one hand; I always had to put down whatever I was carrying, brace myself and pull the door open. I noticed that no men who worked in the building had this problem – they would just pull the doors open in mid-stride without having to pause. To be fair, there was one woman I knew who could do the same – she was a professional body builder who managed the gym in the building. Her upper arms were intimidating!
I worked for a construction company and architects would come in to meet with my boss. One day I bitched to one of the architects about the outer doors – why were they so heavy, why couldn’t most of the people (women) who worked in the building open them without a struggle? He grinned, shrugged, and said, “That’s because the average man is the standard to which we build. If a man can open a door easily, that’s all we need.” I was really insulted and told him so – he laughed at me, and said that the standards were enshrined in the building code. To him, it simply didn’t matter that most of the people in an office building were women who had trouble opening the doors – the building code was sacred, and men’s abilities were the only logical standard. End of discussion.
You may recall that recently an all-female spacewalk had to be rescheduled because there were not enough spacesuits abord the ISS that would fit women properly – very little has changed! Men are assumed to be the standard for measurements.
Ribena
There’s a great book on that subject called Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez. Ironically the hardback is fairly large so I struggled with my tiny hands ?
Anonymous
Lack of compliance with ADA standards is a real issue. LEED is totally unrelated and not at all relevant.
BB
So tell me if I’m overthinking this or being too paranoid, but this similar thing has happened to me with probably at least 3-4 people in my adult life. I recently move to a new area and found out that a college friend whom I hadn’t seen in over a decade lives in the same area. I reached out with a “hey, not sure if you even remember me, but I’m just on the other side of town now! Would you like to grab lunch and reconnect?” I get back a “oh my god, totally remember you. Let’s get lunch! I’m generally available at these times of week.” To which I respond with a suggested time and place and then…crickets. That was over a month ago at this point. I didn’t want to follow up too quickly because I didn’t want to seem pushy and maybe they really had something come up? But like, are people really this flaky or is it some sign that they didn’t really want to meet up?
Anon
People are just really flaky. It’s not about you. If it was personal, they would have ignored your first message or responded in a really hedging way.
Panda Bear
Ugh, this happens to me too. I know that *most likely* it is because they are genuinely busy and have other priorities, but it does send me into the spiral of ‘do they actually hate me?’ thinking. After a month, I wouldn’t think following up is too pushy, though. Send another email or text and see what happens. And then maybe after two or three tries, figure that they just can’t fit you in right now. That’s what I’m trying to do.
BB
It’s not just the “do they really hate me?”, it’s also the “huh, I guess this really isn’t interesting enough to them to keep on their radar.” I know people are different with different priorities and I totally get it, but for me, reconnecting with old friends is like super-omg-exciting-so-happy-they-reached-out! But again…that’s me! :)
Angela
Yeah, I think you’re reading it right, it’s not that they hate you or wouldn’t like to see you in theory. It’s just not a priority for them as a way to spend their time over anything else they have going on in their lives. I think at this point the best thing to do is move on and find a new friend/acquaintance who is equally excited about your friendship as you are.
Anon
If someone is distant enough for you to start a message with “do you remember me” I think it’s a reasonable assumption that there is not enough friendship there to start anew many many years later. Don’t take it personally but you’re functionally a stranger asking for dinner – I’d turn you down too, who has the time?
anon
But the person didn’t turn her down. The person seemed enthusiastic and then ghosted on the second email. It’s rude.
Angela
So you think it’s less rude to be like, “Hey, great to hear from you! Unfortunately, I’m not that interested in getting together right now, I’ve got a lot going on and just don’t have the time. Best of luck with the move though!” I just feel like social convention doesn’t allow for that answer, even if it’s more honest.
Anon
Ignoring the first email is a lot less rude than saying “YES I’d love to, here’s my availability blah blah blah” and then ghosting on the second email, and I think that’s what the person would have done if they didn’t actually want to get together.
Anyway, lots of people would have dinner with a stranger! I moved to a new town and was introduced to friends-of-friends via email, and almost all of them wanted to meet even though I was actually a stranger, not just a distant acquaintance.
Anon
Anon @ 11:48 I think honestly this is just the social convention and you can be offended by it or you can get used to it. People have a desire to be polite so they’re friendly, but they don’t really want to do the thing that much or don’t really want to go out of their way to do it, so they gently fade. You can spend your energy getting upset by it or you can move on to other people who are more interested in hanging out.
Another Anon
It’s totally fine to say that! I don’t think it is the social convention to pretend that you’re interested and ghost people. Other variations if you want to act nice could be to say “I’d love to but life is crazy right now and I just don’t have the time. If you need any recommendations for the area feel free to ask!” etc.
Anon
Some people really are that flaky and will pretend they’re interested even if they’re not because they are afraid to say no thanks to things. It’s bizarre and rude. I’d reach out again just to check if they haven’t just gotten busy, though.
Anon
If they had suggested dates and times and you responded with the one that works for you, I’d assume you had plans? Then a day or two before I’d message confirming we were still on for place/date/time.
Anon
I wouldn’t take this personally. There have definitely been periods in my life where I literally have had 0 room for one more person in my life to try to get together with, regardless of who that person is, and you may just be catching her at that point in time. Things ebb and flow, maybe that will change down the line.
I’d like to think I would have handled it better than she did (ie be more vague about getting together) but the reality is there is little way that feels right to say to someone “I just don’t have time at all right now”. That being said, since she didn’t handle it vaguely, maybe she does want to get together and really is that flaky.
Anon
They are flaky AND they don’t want to meet up with some random person they knew decades ago. It’s not about you personally, you don’t have to be “paranoid.”
Anonymous
I can imagine being this person. You send email 1. I respond genuinely enthusiastically. You send particular dates, I review, I am unsure what I can commit to and decide to respond later. Later gets much later. Then I either forget altogether or feel a bit embarrassed or just keep saying “Icll send new dates tomorrow” and then that never happens. But if I get a follow-up, I will take more care in responding. And then as we bond the scheduling gets simpler. So I’d encourage you to reach out again. If that doesn’t work, move on.
Anon
+1 to this. I also vote it’s worth one more message. FWIW, I have definitely reconnected with people I haven’t seen in years who moved to my city and we’ve become friends.
Anon
+ 1 to this too! Everyone is so busy. this thread just prompted me to reach out to an old friend – we’d gotten together because I’d reached out to her, it took fits and starts to get a date, and we’d promised to do it again, we both wanted to, and neither reached out. Embarrassed or not, I just reached back out!
Anon
You’re the one who moved there. They were already there. They have established lives. You’re asking to fit into it. It’s not too much to ask and a great strategy for making friends in a new area, but you can’t take it so personally. Just keep trying.
Anonymous
Has anyone done an intentionally long term house hunt? Did you use a realtor and if so how did you talk to them about what you wanted? I’m in no rush to move and I have a fairly stringent set of criteria for what I want in a house. Also, the kind of house I want will get snapped up quickly. I don’t want to work with someone who’s going to show me a bunch of houses I don’t want to try to get me to move ASAP. I’d like to work with someone who will be on top of eligible houses so I can get in and make an offer no later than the day it hits the market. But at the same time, it might be months or even a year before the right house becomes available. I’m not sure if it’s reasonable to think a realtor might be willing to do this? Budget would be mid to upper range in my area, and I’d want to sell my starter home (homes in my neighborhood sell quickly).
Anonymous
If you tell the realtor exactly what you’ve written here, then I think you can find someone to do this. A good realtor isn’t going to waste their time touring houses that don’t interest you.
Anonymous
And they may just send you listings or word of pending listings (how hot stuff gets sold in my city; total seller’s market, so you need to get stuff lined up on Hour 1 that a listing goes live). Also, she may tell you whether you can buy with any contingency re selling your house or how to make a competitive offer (like maybe pre-stage your house so you can list quickly). A lot is coming on the market now, so I’d have a talk b/c when it happens, it will all happen fast. You maybe be able to be patient, but you need to be very prepared.
lawsuited
I wouldn’t be excited to take you on as a client if I were a real estate agent because there’s diminishing returns on my work over a long period for the same outcome, whereas I could sell many more houses in the same time period to buyers who are more motivated to sell/buy and will make compromises to buy one of the imperfect houses I show them. I think maybe you talk to a real estate agent, make it clear that you have strict criteria to sell/buy and don’t expect the real estate agent to proactively look for listings that meet your criteria for months or years, but would like them to set up alerts for new listings that meet your criteria and send the listings directly to you so you can review them and let them know if there are any houses you want to see. In my experience, I got each day’s new listings emailed to me at 6am so we were able to move quickly on properties I was interested in. I think making it clear that you would be ready to move quickly once the right property came along and that you would want to real estate agent to double end your sale/purchase will help.
Anon
I just watched an episode of House Hunters last night (not reality, I know) where the realtor badgered the buyer into looking at condos (which she specifically didn’t want) and condescended to her the entire time. I think it’s very fair to make a plan to avoid that and to work to find the right realtor who can work with you, even on an extended timeframe.s
NOLA
That’s kind of what I’ve been doing. I did some intensive looking and made an offer about two years ago, but I wasn’t happy with my realtor. I switched realtors and put together a pretty specific list of criteria and location. I look at the notifications when I get them, but have only seen one house that looked like it would work for me. Many of the houses in my price range don’t have a dining room space at all, which is a must for me. They maximize bedrooms rather than living space/dining space. I was very clear when I met with the new realtor and she’s been great. She checks in with me occasionally, but knows that I have a lot going on in my life right now.
Anon
Unless your market is substantially different, my realtor (after typical consultations) set up a search with my parameters and basically said “call me if you want to view a property”. She’d only contact me directly if she came across an off market property that had those descriptions. I think it’s unreasonably to ask a realtor to do all the searching for you and bring you properties in this day and age when you can see exactly what she sees on MLS.
Anon
But then why are you paying them 3% of the cost of the house?
Anon
You wouldn’t if you’re not having the realtor do that and you’re just doing it yourself.
Anon
Because her work isn’t opening up a door, her work is guiding us through the home buying process, from research on the properties I’m interested in, giving advice on neighborhoods, school districts, flooding and construction trends (big for my part of the country), home viewing and providing very nuanced feedback during the walk through, offer and repairs negotiation, liasion with seller realtor, repairs, guides us through the contract (my state it is uncommon to use attorneys for property under a million or so).
But I have a good realtor.
Anon
My mom is a realtor and does that all the time. If they’re decent, they should set you up to receive your custom listing feed via email and will also forward you anything they think is a good fit. It’s really not a huge effort or time suck on the realtor’s part unless you’re demanding to be shown houses you’re not seriously interested in. I’ve had friends that worked with her who looked for a year or more before finding the right property.
Anonymous
We followed listings ourselves and went to open houses and only used our realtor when we wanted to put in offers, so she was happy to do that because it wasn’t a drag on her time. Also, around here, the popular houses all have a deadline for offers and won’t accept any before then, so you have a couple days leeway.
anon
there is a detailed post on frugalwoods about their very long house hunt. They basically did this, went to open houses in the area they were interested in, until they developed a good sense for a good deal.
Anon
I LOVE that series on Frugalwoods and it’s exactly how I’m approaching a future house hunt. I basically want to have everything I wanted lined up in advance so if that unicorn house comes along, we can move quickly and be confident it meets our well-researched criteria.
Anon
Ask them to keep you in mind for pocket listings. You can make your case stronger by being a cash buyer or having your financing very firmly tied up.
Formal business attire help
I work as a lawyer for finance companies (so: dudes mostly, often in suits or the Midtown uniform that includes a sweater fleece vest). Our office is casual and I fear that my clothes are now too casual to wear to client meetings. Full suits seem off, but what are you all wearing for power dressing these days?
I have some MMLF, but am struggling with jackets to go with them (jardigan doesn’t work for me and sweater coats read too casual) if they are sleeveless. Even jackets seem too casual these days (I have tons that are interesting and can wear even a trucker jacket or olive utility jacket at work if cold). I have an Etsuko, and love it to pieces, but often need a 3 different outfits on longer trips. DVF wraps don’t work on my shape.
Final area I’m struggling with: shoes. To me, tights + flats seem too casual. Tights seem to need at least a block heel in a business formal environment. I’m OK with flats + slightly cropped suiting pants, but feel like I only get to pack one pair of shoes to avoid checking a bag. Am I misreading the legwear /footwear game? Dresses in this season to me are the way to go (b/c pants + blouse just seems to need a jacket and at that point I might as well wear a suit; dresses are just easier).
BeenThatGuy
No advice but I laughed out loud at “the Midtown uniform that includes a sweater fleece vest”. 9 our 10 men in my office wear this.
BeenThatGuy
oops 9 out of 10
Anon
You should look at the instagram @midtownuniform. It also describes 9/10 of my office (which is 80% male), and when I am freezing and not leaving my desk, I have been known to put a fleece vest on over a dress…
Anon
I work in finance and I think tights with flats are fine personally. Especially if it is acknowledged that you traveled to be there, I think most realize we can’t all be running around in heels to and from airports etc.
I do often pack more than one pair of shoes though and can still carry on, maybe review packing strategies?
I also think honestly there is nothing wrong with a suit in this situation, maybe with a non stuffy shirt underneath to balance. I also wear long sleeve dresses (not 3/4) with no jacket and feel fine about it.
Anon
Suits are fairly out of touch with non-litigation client meetings in most work places (but you’d know your clients best). My rule of thumb is dress in a similar style that your clients will be dressed or one step up if they are very casual.
I don’t think a true suit is necessary except for litigation situations (hearings, depos) or presentations. For a run of the mill client meeting in a business casual office my go to is sheath dress plus coordinating blazer + flats. I add tights if it’s cold and heels if I want to feel tall that day, but I don’t think heels are even expected because hello back issues! Just professional looking flats will do.
If the client is very casual, slacks and well tailored sweater and heels work as well. My main hard limit is no jeans or clearly casual dresses (ie. sun dress).
Anonymous
I have a supply of blazers for non-suit professional wear. I have the long MM jardigan that ties, and the rest are a mix of patterned/solid blazers from Nordstrom, old Banana and Brooks Brothers. For me, I look for blazers in textured fabrics. I have but don’t love JCrew going out blazer. I prefer full length sleeves. Someone mentioned Misook last week, which are beautiful (and machine washable), but so expensive. It’s all about the blazer to step it up!
anne-on
+1. Suiting dresses with sleeves, or more casual dresses (a-line, ponte fabric, etc.) plus a textured or ‘fun’ colored blazer is my go-to uniform. I think flats (or a really low heel) can be perfectly formal as long as it’s a shoe in a true leather/suede – don’t wear your Rothys for client meetings! Something like this or a kitten heel would be my choice:
https://www.jcrew.com/p/womens_category/shoes/flats/pointedtoe-flats-in-suede/K9477?color_name=black
Loafers are also VERY in but I still feel somewhat frumpy in those and I’m not young enough/cool enough to pull off the ‘intentional frumpy art director’ look.
NYC Girl
I also struggle with this. I work in healthcare tech and my office is extremely casual (jeans, shorts) but client meetings are semi-formal. For client meetings, I have a separate wardrobe that consists of mostly dresses (short sleeve or cap sleeve) with coordinating (but not matching jackets). In the winter I wear solid tights and block heels/very polished heeled booties OR sheer black tights with pumps/pointed toe flats, and in the summer I just wear heels or flats. This way, most of my dresses can work in summer or winter (unless they’re a tweed or heavy wool). I have a few matching dress/blazer combos but rarely wear them together and instead have mostly patterned dresses with solid blazers or solid dresses with tweed blazers. Sometimes I will wear a structured cardigan/knit jacket OR just a long sleeve dress (if it’s a client I see regularly, for example).
I gave up on pants b/c they’re hard to fit well/need tailoring, are not forgiving if my weight fluctuates slightly, and difficult to pair with boots/socks in winter.
I can also wear the blazers with jeans and a blouse to the office or over a more casual dress if I want to look slightly elevated.
And LOL to the midtown uniform. It’s what my husband wears every day…
NYC Girl
Oh! Also, in terms of brands I love for dresses/blazers: DVF, LK Bennett, Max Mara Weekend, Hobbs, Rebecca Taylor (the tailored line is great), Hugo Boss, J Crew (hit or miss) and Tory Burch (occasionally find something work appropriate there). MMLF has sadly been a miss for me – their cuts never fit me and I am not impressed by the quality/lack of lining.
anne-on
+1 down to the brands and not being impressed by MMLF! I would swap the Fold for DvF mostly because it’s better cut for my (slim, no chest to speak of, slightly muscular lower half) body type. I have long since given up on wrap dresses.
I’d also say Kate Spade tends to have a surprisingly decent amount of ‘work wear’ dresses every season if you can sift through all the twee and ruffles. And they also tend to make a few great, polished pairs of flats every year.
mm
This is almost exactly what I do in my role in tech investments, except that I do like MMLF. Today I’m in a gayle dress with sheer nylons and heels, in a meeting where the men are mostly in sportcoats and non-matching pants, and about half are wearing ties. Most of the women are wearing dresses.
I wear dresses to almost everything- when the men put on ties, I put on heels. When the men put on a real suit, I add a jacket.
Anonymous
I’m really loving The Fold for this. They have a number of styles that are formal enough to play with the big boys in suits but are made for women not trying to dress like men. I don’t have a problem with flats and tights. I think it’s important to make sure the flats are “structured” enough, if that makes sense. If they are flimsy, foldable ballet flats, Rothys or something like that, that’s not the same as nice heels. That said, I don’t love flats with pencil skirts, but that’s more because I feel slightly frumpy and less because it’s not formal enough. All that said, I also wear actual matching suits to meetings sometimes where my male counterparts are wearing suits, without worrying that I’m missing the mark… That’s what I do if I’m in doubt… better over dressed and conservative than the opposite.
anne-on
+1. I also love that they specifically have a section of polished tops (with sleeves!) that are made to look good while sitting down at a table/boardroom presentation all day.
Anon
A good selection of coordinating separates works. I’m a lawyer in Biglaw and I wear separates 90% of the time–never suits (rarely go to court). My choice is a tailored jacket (either a neutral solid or plaid like Veronica Beard) and solid pants or sheath dresses. I’m surprised at how easy it is to pair a basic blazer with a sleeveless dress. I think a dress with sleeves stands on its own (Etsuko, etc.) and is fine. I know not everyone likes jackets but to me they feel authoritative and can still be fun or make a statement. Theory has some collarless styles that feel less stuffy if lapels are too boring.
Anon
My two uniforms for client meetings are:
Sheath dress with matching longer open cardigan (no button placket), tights and low wedges, an interesting necklace to jazz it up.
A tunic style top and ankle pants in the same color (both black or both dark navy) and a textured jacket that goes with the base color – so I have a black and gray jacket with no lapels and a navy/silver silk tweed jacket. I wear the pants outfit with flats.
Neither of these getups are underdressed. I work in finance and travel to most major cities in the US, predominantly NYC and SF.
TrixieRuby
Well, there are casual flats, like rothy’s and very flat ballet type shoes, and then there are 1″ heels with more structure, maybe an interesting heel, and side panels on the shoes with a seam around the foot. I think a structured flat looks great with tights. I personally like black tights and black shoes mucho, as it is so flattering.
Anonymous
I like tweed jackets, like Rebecca Taylor, over dresses like MMLF. The fabric is different enough that it doesn’t look like a failed suiting attempt.
anon
Has anyone moved from very senior level strategic sales role to public relations/lobbying? Would like to hear about your transition and outcomes.
Anonymous
I work in PR/GR and have to say I don’t see this ever, you may have more luck with the lobbying side than the comms side though.
Anon
For those of you who are single and/or long distance from your SO, how do you deal with the lack of (non-s*exual) physical affection?
I grew up in a large family but have since moved far away and just had an abrupt and unexpected split from my partner. I’ve never lived alone and probably won’t date for a while, so this is something that is really evading me at the moment. Is there a such thing as a non-s*exual FWB? My friend said to get a pet, but I’m allergic to cats and dogs.
Anon
Isn’t a non-sexual FWB just a friend?
lawsuited
Right, the “with benefits” denotes the addition of s3x to what would otherwise be a normal friendship. Friends can sit next to you on the couch, hug you, squeeze your hand, etc. Of course, different people have differing levels of comfort with friendly touch, so not every friend will do all of these.
Anon
Maybe she wants like a cuddle buddy to lay in bed with and hold the way you would a partner? But I don’t know how you would find that without putting yourself in serious physical danger.
Ellen
I think that once she gets a man in her bed, he will want to do more then cuddle. The only men that would stop at cuddling are likely gay. I don’t think she wants a guy who will not be able to use their appendage to her advantage.
Anon
Massage?
Anonymous
+1
Massage therapy is great for this.
BeenThatGuy
I understand what you are saying. Missing non-s*xual physical connection like hugs, holding hands, cuddling, etc is terrible for me. During a period like this in my life, I would ask my closest friends for hugs all the time. Like real, deep comforting hugs. I’m not sure what else you can do. Look into the “boyfriend” pillow maybe?
Anon
Find a good massage/spa or a good foot massage place.
Shopaholic
there’s a yoga class in my city (and a couple other locations in Canada) that is based on exactly that – gentle/safe touch. Some restorative yoga classes also include some gentle massage – that might be a good option? Usually they advertise that so maybe take a look on classpass or mindbody to see if you can find a class that offers that?
Anon
Can you get a nonshedding or hairless dog or cat? Maybe a couple guinea pigs?
Anon
Hair isn’t the part of cats and dogs that people are allergic to, though I guess if you bathed a hairless animal constantly, you could stay ahead of the real allergens more easily.
Anon
Honestly, I think my answer is that I don’t need much physical touch since I grew up in a family that wasn’t big on touch and that the little I do need is provided by my cat. I know that’s not helpful for you. But I do think friends are the way to go here, hug hello, hug goodbye, put your head on their shoulder, etc. I’m not a big touch person, and would still happily play that role for any of my friends.
Anon
Try an active partner hobby, like ballroom dancing or Crossfit. Then you’ll get the social benefits, the hobby benefits, some physical touch, and maybe even a good friend or two out of it.
Ribena
My gosh! I’ve been swing dancing the last six months or so and hadn’t even put two and two together that this is one of the reasons I like it.
Anonymous
My colleague is allergic to cats and still has 2 cats. She takes allergy meds. For her, the joy of having unconditional cuddly love was stronger than her allergy. Depends how allergic you are.
Anon
I know exactly what you mean. I had a sort of FWB for a while with whom I cuddled. We were both in rough places in our lives at the time, and he would come over, we would cuddle on the couch and drink tea and sometimes he would sleep over for more cuddling. In the morning we would encourage each other to do things like, you know, get out of bed, make coffee, take a shower. We also helped each other out — he fixed stuff for me at home and brought me homemade food and I revamped his resume and baked, that kind of thing. We did have sex a couple of times when we were both in the mood, but it wasn’t a major part of our relationship and we agreed that we weren’t super compatible in that way. It was really nice. We’re still good friends though we’ve moved on from this portion of our friendship as we’ve both started dating more seriously.
I found him on a dating app — we went on one date but weren’t a good fit but decided to stay friends, and slowly this evolved. We lived 2 blocks apart at the time which facilitated this.
Anony
Actually, this sounds really wonderful.
Anonymous
I saw a documentary once about a cuddle service! It sends someone to your house just to cuddle with you. I don’t think it’s for me, but it’s out there!
Ellen
Not for me either. Once I make the decision to let a man into my life, it is NOT for cuddling, but for very active s-x, which I am told I have become very good at with the right man. I should NOT have to have s-x with any man that I do not find attractive, however. Dad calls me picky, but if he were single, I do not see him pointing his weenie at just any woman.
Anon
Anyone have any good quitting stories to share? I’m fantasizing about quitting my job (actively job searching) and I loved that amazing story from Ask a Manager a while back. Alternatively, I would love to hear any less dramatic quitting stories, but ones that came from a position of strength (eg, having enough savings to quit without something lined up when your boss was abusive to you). Help me get through another day with my boss!
Clementine
I told my coworkers when my last day was in frosting.
My bosses knew, people knew in general I was leaving. I got a (delicious) sheet cake and had them write ‘My last day is Month Day.’ I then wrote a note that I put on the top of the box that simply said ‘I’m sorry. Cake makes everything better though, right?’
Panda Bear
Love it!!
Anon
I quit, gave two weeks notice, and was immediately and aggressively harassed, guilted and threatened by my boss and boss’s boss (it was a die-hard, drink-the-cool-aid national non profit that no one quit except without 6+ months notice because, you know, the kids. I anticipated this, and especially so because I was leaving the NFP world, and where my next job was was none of their business as far as I was concerned. In my resignation meeting (and subsequent follow up meetings they scheduled for said guilting/harassing) I was stone cold, poker faced and all I said was “I have an opportunity I cannot pass up.”It killed them – like ragey anger – and I sort of felt bad because I knew I was stoking the flame but I refused to tell them where I was going. For the first time in that job I felt so powerful.
Then the harassment got so bad that on day four I rescinded my two-week notice and packed up and was done. I consulted an employment attorney (a friend, TBH) and was able to tell them I did so. There was swift follow up by national HR and attorneys on their end, obviously to try to protect themselves, but dang it felt good to make them squirm for just that hot second.
You’ll get through it. You will. Be the bigger person always, and keep composure. I’ll always remember how absolutely off the walls angry and unprofessional that organization’s leadership was, and they’ll always remember how I wasn’t. And I love that so very much.
Anon
Wow, you rock. Way to keep your cool and your boundaries!
Anon
Thanks. To this day it is hands down my proudest professional situation that I’ve been in, in terms of how I’ve handled myself in the face of challenging people ‘in power’, and I’m 15 years into my professional life, in a male-dominated job in finance with clients who are ca-ray-zee demanding. At the time I was 24 and was so nervous and scared. My dad was invaluable in coaching me through it. I hope to be able to help other women stand up for themselves and, to Anon at 11:30am’s point, not over explain. You owe your employer nothing when you’re resigning – not a position I’ve taken on every job I’ve resigned from, but a position that I’ll always remember and remind others of in these awful type situations.
pugsnbourbon
Damn this is inspiring.
Vicky Austin
+1. I wanna be that cool, calm and collected!
Anon
Not sure what you’re asking really. No need for a dramatic flourish. I honestly don’t get why people esp. women talk SO much when they leave, justify their decision etc. I always think it’s better to leave with a bit of mystery — even if you’re in an industry where you tell your next employers name — why do people tell details? Leave it at — can’t pass up the opportunity and it’s professional growth/money that I’m not getting here. That irritates people but isn’t that the point if you’re in an unhappy situation?
Anon
OP here and I’m not looking for justifications of the decisions or tentative apology-quits, but I’m out for drama today (what can I say) and I love hearing about cases where the employer thinks they have all the power and that they can abuse it, but a strong employee quits and shows them they can’t. Anon at 10:59 has the perfect story for this; if she had been totally dependent on the paycheck, she wouldn’t have been able to walk out after 4 days.
Anonymous
I was at a miserable job pretty early out of school where I was stuck working 7 days a week with brutal hours for next-to-no pay (publishing) for almost a year when they failed to fill a position in our two-person branch. (I was put in charge of hiring and every candidate I suggested got shot down, so it was only adding one more job onto this impossible plate). I lost more than 40 pounds and my hair was starting to fall out, and I was getting almost no sleep from the stress, After being told I couldn’t get a deadline extension on a project where scope of work changed significantly by my “bro” boss with no publishing background who was friends with the owners son, I realized I just couldn’t do it. Perfectionist me couldn’t handle the constant feeling of failing and knew there was no realistic way to do what I had been asked to do. So I just quit. I made a bunch of sticky notes on next steps for everything that still needed attending to and made copies of what I needed to with my project documents in case anyone had questions afterward and needed to call. I got a document caught in the copier when doing that and realized it looked really bad even though my intentions were good, and I just started to cry. I called my former co-worker (she was now working for our competitor just down the street) and she was such an angel. She helped me fix the machine and pack up my stuff. There was a huge rainstorm that kicked up as we went to our cars. It felt like it was right out of a movie. I still get an adrenaline rush when I think back to “the night I escaped.” For what it’s worth, it’s been almost two decades now and their company is long out of business. I’ve worked my way up through the years and now am in management at a media company. I don’t know what happened to bro. But former coworker mentioned she heard about a stint in rehab when I had bumped into her a few years later at an industry conference.
Anon
I quit without another job lined up; people who had been in the workforce for thirty years said they had never heard of a situation as awful as mine.
What helped: I had lived below my means when in that job. That meant more savings when I was in the job and lower expenses when I left – a two-fold aid. I had a side hustle that I continued while in the job and ramped up when I left (paid about $60 – $75/hour). I was able to get temporary assignments while I looked for work.
It was a huge financial hit and one that still impacts me a few years later, but the long-term damage to my mental health would have been worse.
Anon
Out of curiosity, how long were you in between full-time gigs?
Blue Racer
So I was working 32hrs/wk. Finance in healthcare, the eliminated my position but offered me a new one that was slightly different…had to be full time and would have been a 1.5% decrease in salary and a worse title. I was so upset and wasn’t happy anyway so I just went ‘so you mentioned severance?’ I walked away. I was vested in my pension. I turned to consulting and did a short stint as a SAHM. My DH is successful so I didn’t need to work but I really liked my coworkers.
grapefruit
I bought a mini cake from the grocery store and had them write “I QUIT” in frosting. The little old bakery ladies were just dying as they wrote it out. I was close with my boss who knew that an offer from another company was imminent, so it was cute.
Anon
Can anyone recommend a home-use hair product to seal dry ends temporarily? I use deep conditioners and oils regularly, but they’re not enough. I desperately need a haircut, but I have a fresh helix piercing and it’s way too tender to let someone touch my head for a while yet.
Shopaholic
there’s one by Living Proof (I think it’s called the split end mender) that does exactly not. Not perfect but it will help extend the necessity for a cut for a bit.
Anon
Olaplex number 3 works well for me.
Anon
The cheap Tresemme one works just as well as the pricey ones I’ve tried.
Kanye East
It won’t mend damage (and doesn’t coat your hair with silicone, yay), but I think Rahua Hydration Detangler + UV Barrier is wonderful.
Car Recommendations
Ladies, please recommend car models / car purchase routes / resources that I should be looking for:
I have always lived in a big, hard-to-park city with small lanes, and have walked /subway’d / cabbed / lyfted my way around for all thirty years of my life. I have a driver’s license from 10 years ago, but coupled with back issues and my terrible sense of orientation, I haven’t really had any desire to get myself a car.
Now I’m moving to a city where public transportation is a joke and a car would be mandatory for everyday life (groceries, commute, etc). I need good back support, and my priority is 1) safety in the event of an accident (or, car model will make other drivers keep a good distance from me) >>> 2) not too big, in case I have to haul it back to my original city > 3) potentially can accomodate a carseat if needed. Budget is up to $30k (I will pay cash), willing to buy get a used car if it won’t give me substantially more trouble.
I have a very bad back and neck, and I bump into thinga in my own in my own home all the time (see: terrible terrible sense of orientation) so 1) is of the highest priority for me.
Anon
If you want something reliable, affordable, and a good size for carting things around but easily parkable, the newest model Toyota Rav4 is great – and Toyota has stepped up their base models to compete with the luxury market so the inside is amazing.
For back issues, no car will be perfect and you shouldn’t buy a car solely on it is perfectly ergonomically correct for your back issues because they don’t exist – manufacturers build seats for mass market. Just make sure the seat is wide and goes back far enough and get ergonomic seat inserts to match your issues.
Anon
+1 we have a 2015 RAV4 that we’ve been happy with and seems to meet your needs. We have 2 car seats in it. We live in an urban area with a teeny tiny garage and it was one of the few SUVs that fits fully in it, so i think it is relatively compact.
Anonymous
Car rental companies sell program cars. I’d see if there are any fleet sales places in new city and take one out and try to parallel park it somewhere. They may work out a rental deal with you if you don’t want to buy at first. But if you think you’ll be hitting things with your car, maybe driving isn’t for you?
Anon
I’m not trying to be snarky, but it really sounds like you shouldn’t be driving. You shouldn’t be buying a car planning to “bump into things” with it. Can you share more about the size of your new city? Lyft and Uber exist most places, and even small cities typically have a downtown area where you can live car-free because everything you need (except work) is within walking distance. Buses can work for commuting even if your city doesn’t have a subway/light rail.
Anon
I don’t think she meant she would bump into things while driving but rather she already has bad neck and back issues so safety is important so she doesn’t aggravate those conditions in case of an accident.
Anon
That’s not how I read it. She related the bumping into things to bad orientation. OP, maybe consider a driving class before you get back on the road.
Anon
I felt uneasy with this too. I have impaired visuo-spatial perception and trouble with spatial orientation as a result. I maintain a driver’s license since there may be situations where it may be safer to drive than not to, but it would be a terrible idea for me to make driving part of my routine (errands, daily commute). Last time I made the mistake of living somewhere where driving was necessary, I lasted about six months there before I thought better of it. Depending on other drivers to steer clear is really not safe. Not every spatial orientation related driving decision happens at low speeds or in low-risk settings; it’s not just a matter of taking forever to parallel park.
Anon
This is a good idea and would probably also help with confidence on the road. A scared driver can be pretty dangerous to the people around her.
AnonATL
A lot of the Subaru models might fit your needs. I drove an Outback for a rental once, and they have tons of safety features. The driver’s seat was also surprisingly comfortable with good lumbar support.
A good amount of space, but not all the models are massive. Depending on the model, a brand new one might be slightly above your price but I’m not positive on the cost.
anon a mouse
+1 Check out the Crosstrek, I think it fits your needs. Or a lower-trim/used Forester if you want to sit higher off the ground. The safety features include automatic braking that will reduce impact in case of a crash (to the extent possible, it won’t help if you are T-boned or something).
RR
Agreed. I have a Crosstrek, and it would fit the requirements well.
Anon
Uhhh I don’t think you should be driving.
Anon op
Ah yes. To clarify I am certainly not planning to bump into things in my car. I’m a very very careful driver when I do have to drive (and am terrified of driving if you can tell), but it’s more likely that at some point I don’t see a curb as I park and the slight bump into the curb derails my back.
Anne
In your situation I’d just get a certified used toyota corolla that’s a couple of years old and call it a day.
Anon
This. Wait on the nicer, bigger, luxury, or new cars. Learn to drive on a small old car.
Anon
Get an electric car. There are lots of great models out there now and you’ll be doing the environment a favor to boot.
Anon
It’s a little above your price range (though might come in at the right price with tax credits and fuel and maintenance savings), but a Tesla Model 3 with autopilot would be a good choice. You still have to pay attention and be a competent driver with autopilot, but it relieves some of the mental stress of driving. Also, the car can parallel park itself.
It’s a very safe car, not too big, and fits two massive car seats no problem.
Quail
+1. Or try a Prius C – it’s a compact Prius. I found it very easy to park in urban areas. Terrible for road trips or a long highway commute (noisy and not that comfy) but great for day to day urban driving/groceries. It’s a hatchback so can hold more stuff than a larger sedan. It is small though so if you are a tall person I don’t know how comfortable it would be.
mm
I’m tall, in Chicago, have a Chevy Bolt- it’s really great for around town. It’s comfy and reliable.
Cat
I agree with others that you should take a refresher driver’s class. I’m similarly situated – have barely driven since I was a teen thanks to living in a city with lots of transport options, and even then, just on surface streets that are maybe 1-2 lanes each way. There is no way I would take on extensive daily driving – merging and changing lanes in horrendous commute highway traffic in particular – without seriously refreshing my driving skills.
Cat
Can anyone tell me why this went to m0d? I have been commenting here for over a decade and my name and email have not changed…
Parfait
maybe the word “teen” appears in a lot of spam posts? Let’s find out.
Parfait
nope. No clue, then.
Anon
The Impreza is Suburu’s smallest car and their newer models have lane centering and crash avoidance (auto breaking) technology. Can be a little tight with a carseat but is still fine.
pugsnbourbon
Agreed – get a newer, smaller car with safety upgrades.
And yes, you should take a driving course. It sounds like you’re scared to drive, which can make you more dangerous on the road.
Anon
Let me guess — a New Yorker that can’t drive because they’ve never had to and now at age 30+ they are stumbling thru things that people learned at 17? One of the least impressive things from when I lived in NYC — the fact that they didn’t view driving as a life skill but when they need to leave, it’s OMG I NEED to drive, it’s ok, so what if I bump into other peoples cars?? Do us a favor, stay in NYC or wherever you live.
You should get NOTHING more than or bigger than a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic. Don’t go down the — oh if I have a bigger car people will stay away from me — road. Sweetie you can’t handle a Hummer or even a CRV yet. Frankly I wouldn’t even pay for a nice new Corolla or Civic yet, start with a pre owned. They have the safety features you need and are the easiest cars to drive esp since they aren’t big or wide. I think people here are underestimating the width of an SUV for a person who I’m sure will not be pulling in and out of the Target parking lot that easily.
Senior Attorney
Yeah, it is about a million times easier to drive a small car than a big SUV, and at the end of the day you will be safer in a car that you can handle better. If you want a high end small car, try the Audi A3 — I LOVED mine. And if you are in L.A., go to Audi Beverly Hills and buy it from Amanda Hart and tell her I sent you.
Anon
An Audi A3 is my personal preferred car of choice too, but honestly NOT for someone with no driving experience. Sure it’s the same size as a Civic or Corolla but let’s be honest it’s a luxury car — do you really want to be bumping it into things or scraping the hub cabs on curbs etc.? Seems like a waste. Learn to drive on a regular non luxury car and wait a few years on the A3. Mazda actually makes fun to drive cars in the same size/price range as Toyota and Honda.
Anony
Yeah, you sound like someone I wouldn’t want on the road. Your physical limitations, lack of experience, odd priorities (?choose are car that drivers will stay away from….) are worrisome.
Maybe you get a pre-owned Tesla with self driving capabilities.
Anon
Wait, there are actually self-driving cars on the market? I knew the technology existed, but I didn’t realize you could just go and buy one. Is it legal??
Anon
There are self driving cars on the road but IDK about getting one everywhere. IDK if it varies state by state or what. But yeah I was in Vegas last year and you could get a self driving Lyft. I thought the technology was still in testing phases and not super safe yet but obviously not — they can be on the road — at least in Nevada.
BeenThatGuy
I have a new 2020 Audi A6. It senses if your hands are on the wheel or not; one might consider this self-driving. If the car starts drift, it will pull you back into your lane (don’t ask me how it knows “the lane” but I assume cameras detect the lines). The vehicle has sensors all over it to detect when objects (cars/people/etc) are around you. If I go to get out my parked car, and it senses a person or car coming, the dash lights up red to stop me.
I think OP needs a car with newer tech like this. And old Corolla won’t have it.
Anon
Yeah, I think you’ve been able to for a while. There are plenty of stories of self driving cars getting in accidents (that get way more attention than the waaaay more frequent accidents of human-driven cars).
Anon
Yes. I work in this industry (self-driving cars) and have a bit of insight into it.
Teslas can safely self park, including parallel parking, and are the best car on the market in this arena because the software has been around for several years and has gotten refined continuously, so this works great.
With driving on highways in a fairly straight line and avoiding traffic, most cars can do cruise control and the Tesla has some more advanced features (full navigation) that you can use. Some of this (e.g. full driving to a destination that you select on a map) are in a Beta stage so you should use those with caution. The settings have a default but you can modify them to be more cautious – e.g. set a maximum speed, set the driving distance between you and the car in front (4 cars worth, for example), and other settings.
Mercedes, BMW and some other cars also offer self park now and limited self driving features but you should pick a car with OTA software upgrades that continuously refines the driving capabilities.
Formerly Lilly
Yes. I live near a space industry city (lots of nerds with disposable income) and “spot the Tesla” isn’t even a challenging game any more.
Anon
Have you ever driven I-95 in south Florida? Just back from doing that for the better part of a week. I’m sure OP is a lot better than that mess.
Anon
Used Volvo V60, S60, or S90, after you take a comprehensive driver’s ed class.
Belle Boyd
It may be bigger than your needs, but I can absolutely attest to the safety of the Hyundai Tucson after being hit head-on in one. There’s plenty of room for a carseat, lots of cargo room for groceries, and my new Tucson gets some amazing gas mileage. I’m on my third one — first one lasted over 11 years and had over 176,000 miles when I traded it for old age issues (I live in an area where road salt takes a heavy toll on vehicles no matter if they are rustproofed.) Second one was totaled in my accident, and when I was ready to get another car, I went right back to the dealer I bought the first two at and had them find me another one. My dad’s a retired mechanic and is absolutely impressed with Hyundai’s safety and engineering as well, and after nearly 60 years of wrenching on cars, that says something — the only other vehicle that has impressed him is the Chevy Blazer that he rebuilt.
Anonymous
I would buy a used Lexus. I have a bad back and have found the seats supportive and the ride smooth. Less expensive cars tend to provide a harsher road feel.
LS
Does anyone have a wristlet that they’d recommend? Want something to throw in a purse/backpack for the work week and vacations, that I can grab to run to lunch or a store. I was looking at the Dagne Dover Essentials Clutch Wallet but it seems expensive for something basic. Thanks!
Anon
I like the current TUSK wristlet, though I wish it came in more colors.
OP
Oh that is perfect but you’re right – those are some bright colors!
Anonymous
I have a wallet from Hobo with a wrist strap. Slightly less expensive than what you’re looking at.
Computer Science
Recs for free online computer science / programming / data science bootcamps or courses for self study? I’m overwhelmed by all the options: debating between CS 50 from Harvard on edX, data science sequence from IBM on Coursera, Khan Academy, and MIT open courseware, for starters.
I’m a (dissatisfied) lawyer with some free time on my hands who loves math, and am trying to get a feel for the field to see if this is something I would be interested in pursuing.
Also, recommendations for which programming languages to focus on? TiA!
anon
If you have never programmed, I would start with the free python course at codecademy.
Anon
+1 to Python. (Ex) lawyer who loves math here, and I really enjoyed the Python programming class I took!
Anon
Ha, I think the Harvard course is kind of douchey. If you just want to learn to code, I agree with the python rec above. I think listening to lectures can be boring and is something you don’t really need to do unless you have tons of free time – get your hands dirty right away.
Anon
This is not online, but you may want to look up the “Railsbridge” Ruby on Rails weekend workshop. If you are new, this can get you started (and a lot of people follow up with free python courses once they’ve gotten their feet wet).
Anon
Is academia pretty slow for hiring in your experience (for non-faculty jobs)? My husband has specialized tech skills in an industry that typically gets few applicants per open position and I’m a little surprised he hasn’t heard anything back from the university he applied to a month ago. I’m just judging that based off of his track record in the past (getting interviews and offers quickly) and wondering if academia truly is as slow as the rumors suggest.
Anon
It depends. I’m staff at a university and my boss hires people very quickly normally, although it definitely slows down over academic breaks, especially the winter break when the whole university is shut.
FP
Oh my gosh it is brutally slow. In my last higher ed position (admissions office) it was 5 months from application submitted to start date. I left higher ed a year ago and it was truly shocking how fast my process went with a private employer – so much so that it was extremely stressful to be presented with an offer the day after my interview and I truly felt like I didn’t have time to process it.
Professor
Public university? Hiring rules are pretty strict and at minimum you won’t hear anything until the position has closed and all applicants have been reviewed by the search committee. Depending on urgency, this could happen within a few days of the closing date or a few months and each additional stage of hiring could be similarly variable. It can be fast, but 6-8 months from application to starting date wouldn’t be surprising either and it doesn’t necessarily mean anything about the applicant, just the logistics of the hiring process.
Anon
Yeah, it’s a public university in another state (a few states over). 6-8 months sounds horrible when we’re getting pretty eager to move!!
Anon
For staff? I’m at a public university and there’s no mandatory period which we have to keep the job open. We start interviewing as soon as we get applicants we like. Faculty job ads have a closing date in them and I believe they can’t interview until the closing date has passed, but getting them in early in still an advantage because they make informal shortlists before the closing date.
Professor
Really? In the places I’ve worked even staff positions with an internal candidate have to be posted for two weeks. Real open positions usually have a “primary consideration date” at least three or four weeks from from the posting date, more if it’s fairly specialized, and we’re not allowed to contact candidates before that. Staff positions hired in large numbers are posted as open positions yearly to get around this, but it doesn’t sound like this is the kind of job the OP is talking about. If the position is urgent, interviews might get scheduled right after the primary consideration date, but all kinds of things can set this back months and months.
emeralds
The timelines outlined by Professor would be normal for staff hiring at both of the large, public universities I’ve worked at, although of course things can sometimes go more quickly.
My slowest turnaround from application to job offer was October to July. Ten months. That was at an Ivy.
Anon
Yeah, I know it can be slow. I was responding to the point about having to keep jobs open until “the position has closed.” From what I’ve seen that’s a faculty thing, not a staff thing (her use of “search committee” also made me think it might be a faculty thing, because generally staff jobs have hiring managers, not search committees). I’m at a large public university and we can bring someone in for an interview as soon as we get a resume we like. There’s no requirement to wait until a certain date to review all candidates.
Professor
I guess this varies, but at my university, most “professional” staff positions are hired by search committees, not by hiring managers. This is part of why it takes so long- you have to coordinate a bunch of really busy people (staff and faculty) from all across campus whose jobs have nothing to do with hiring people, many of which don’t actually care that much whether someone gets hired for the position because it’s only tangentially related to their job. Add in all of the many layers of bureaucratic approval and budget problems at a state university and you might start to understand where the delays come from. It’s really terrible. I assume it’s different for jobs like dining hall workers, but even the entry level department admins are hired by committee, though that usually moves pretty quickly, as it would massively inconvenience the department chair if it didn’t!
Anon
Wow, that’s really different. I’m not an executive, but I’m definitely a professional and have participated in interviews for managers and senior level professional staff. Interviews are sometimes panels, but it’s always just a few people who already work together closely, so not hard to coordinate a time and the hiring manager has final say, so I wouldn’t call it a committee. Faculty are never involved, at least in my unit. I can see how faculty in the biology department would be involved in hiring an admin for that department but otherwise I don’t believe faculty have any involvement in staff hiring, at least at my school.
Professor
Faculty are only involved in positions that directly affect them, so your example about the biology department is exactly correct. They wouldn’t be involved in other entry level positions, but would be on search committees for anything related to research, teaching, or senior level people elsewhere. My point is more that it’s mostly not being run by full time HR staff, though they certainly have lots of oversight and regulations to add to the process. The work of reading applications, deciding who to interview (and justifying it to the powers that be), and coordinating logistics usually falls to people who have full time jobs doing other things, though those people might be staff or faculty depending on the position.
anon
this is true. Move on, assuming you didn’t get the job is the best advice for mental health.
Anon
Yes… they’re either horribly slow or shockingly fast. There isn’t much in-between at my university. The default is slow but.. hell hath no fury like a full professor slightly inconvenienced.
Anon
I laughed out loud at the last bit. So true!
Anon.
Lol, so true!
emeralds
Oh my god I’m going to be using that phrase for the rest of my life.
Anon
Clever, but it’s not really a slight inconvenience to be unemployed and desperate like so many people who are seeking faculty positions are. Way too many adjunct professors are homeless and/or on food stamps.
Anon
Interestingly, I actually meant the exact opposite! At my university, staff positions take forever to fill, unless someone, usually a bigwig professor (or coach) pitches a hissy fit (and has a preferred candidate in mind), then BAM… the hiring process is damn near instantaneous.
Anon
Oh okay, I totally misinterpreted. That’s much more hilarious :)
anon
omg, you are so correct on this.
Anon.
It is.
Anonymous
DC/NOVA, where should I go to buy a small, comfortable, non-hideous recliner? Will be hauling kids along, so would prefer not to be in tiny shops in the city.
Anon
There are non hideous recliners? I had no idea.
Anon
There are some that basically look like regular armchairs that you can’t tell are recliners when they’re unreclined. I have one in my home office and it just looks like a regular leather sort of professional looking armchair.
Mine is a similar shape to this but it’s in a dark brown leather
https://www.westelm.com/products/sedgwick-recliner-leather-g836/
Anonymous
Belfort in Sterling has a huge selection. I’ve never looked specifically for recliners, but I believe they have bunch.
Anon
There’s a La-Z-Boy in Potomac Yards, isn’t there? Their whole thing is attractive recliners. I know there’s one around here somewhere…
Anon
So this comes up every week or 2 — views on traveling in light of coronavirus? Is anyone changing their plans or putting a hold on booking trips for this spring/summer or are you just living life? Does it matter if it’s domestic vs. international, short vs. long flight? I imagine most people are putting Asia on hold but anyone putting Europe, Mexico, Florida or anything like that on hold?
And because people will snark — yes I know it’s flu season and that’s a bigger risk. Yes I’ve had a flu shot. No I don’t think this is like flu because it’s more unknown. And frankly different from the flu because there is no shot for any type of prevention.
IDK maybe I’ve just stopped following the way I was, but it almost seems “optimistic” to me that like all of the identified cases in the US are people who returned from Wuhan or were brought back from Wuhan or that cruise ship on government flights etc. Though I realize there are theories that it’s just because we aren’t testing as aggressively as other nations etc. I just think it’s “optimistic” that a few people who have it are college kids who came back from their homes in China after winter break and yet we haven’t heard of tons of people (or any people) who flew with them for 10+ hours coming down with it.
Anon
I wouldn’t travel to China or take a cruise (hell no to that), but otherwise, I haven’t changed anything besides following my normal precautions of trying to stay away from sick people, frequent handwashing, etc. I’m immunocompromised and I live in San Francisco.
Anon
Has flu season peaked yet? When is it supposed to? I know the CDC puts out data but I also think their data is 1-2 weeks behind what is going on in real time so they may only have early/mid Feb data now. I just think it’ll be “easier” when seasonal flu goes away because then it’ll “just” be this damn thing.
Anon
Flu season usually peaks in February. Flu activity is high all across the US, trending down slightly in the report released today, so maybe just past peak, or maybe it will tick back up again. The CDC data is only a week old, so it’s a pretty good big picture indicator of what’s going on. Most (all?) state departments of health also issue flu reports that break it down by county or region of the state if you want a more localized picture. My family avoids children’s museums and places like that that are basically petri dishes until flu is past peak in our area according to the reports.
Anon
Maybe I’m just not paying close enough attention but isn’t it just… like… the flu? I heard, and admittedly have not worked to verify, that the people dying were largely otherwise compromised (elderly, already suffering from other ailments, etc.)?
Anon
It’s a viral pneumonia which at worst attacks lungs, liver, kidneys etc. Sure some people just get a cold and move on. Others end up in really bad shape, and right now it’s not clear why some end up in such bad shape. While statistically it’s older people who are more affected, that’s not true across the board. China has drs. in their 20s dying (which is different because they are being exposed day in, day out), but in other nations they’re seeing the middle age (30-40 year old) population hit. Italy just announced a case this morning — 39 year old with such bad respiratory failure that he cannot be moved to a bigger hospital and his 8 mo pregnant wife has it too — all because he had dinner with a colleague who had been in China. The deaths in Iran have been 30 somethings. So IDK that we know enough right now to be like — eh NBD.
Anonymous
The fatality rate is on order of 1-3%, so much more deadly than the flu, but what’s more concerning to me is that 20% of the people who are diagnosed end up with severe disease – requiring ICU, ventilator use, or ECMO use (really a last resort). There are limited supplies of ICU beds and ventilators in the face of a pandemic, even here in the US.
Anon
Doesn’t that suggest you’d actually want to get it early, via travel, when you’d still be an anomaly and would get great medical with a whole team caring for you? It seems like most experts believe there’s eventually going to be an epidemic in the US. Also, some studies suggest that coronavirus is 15-20x more deadly for men over 50 than people who aren’t men over 50, so the death rate for younger people, especially younger women, may be as low as .1%, which is very comparable to the flu.
Anonymous
People are apparently able to get it twice, so there may be no benefit to exposing yourself to it early. And yes, age/health matters for the death rate, but I’d still prefer not to end up on a vent or ECMO machine, even if I survive.
Anon
This isn’t as big of a nothing as many people are acting. From the CDC just now — CDC officials are preparing for the possibility #COVID19 could become a pandemic. Dr. Messonnier pointed to China where schools and businesses have been shuttered for weeks to contain the outbreak there, saying the U.S. may eventually need to do the same.
I mean come on — the fact that we (meaning the CDC which uses scientific evidence) is even making plans for shutting down schools and businesses suggests that this is not a just a cold.
My only hope is that it’s “better” in other countries in the sense that they are learning more and more about this virus in the month that has elapsed and at least have time to prep.
Anon
No, but I am booking refundable tickets in case things change quickly in whatever country destination country I’m going to. I’m generally avoiding countries with poor infrastructure and very dense populations in general but that’s because of cold/flu season and my propensity for upper respiratory infections.
Anon
Where/when are you next going though?
Anon
Next trip is to Mexico. People’s individual cleanliness standards culturally are good there and hospitals are good in major cities but I’m traveling to a more isolated place, so will not go if it is widespread through Mexico then – this is several months from now.
Anon
No one I know IRL seems to be putting domestic/close plans on hold at least right now. I can think of 4 people offhand who have gone to/are going to the Bahamas (2), Miami, USVI, so it seems like people who were doing getaways to warm weather destinations are still doing them. IDK if this changes in the next month or two but everyone who I know planning to go away in the next 3 or so weeks is still going.
Anon
I would avoid travel to China for sure and would be a little uneasy about going elsewhere in Asia, although I would go if I had a good reason, like a family wedding or funeral. Absolutely no plans to put any other kind of travel on hold. We’re flying to Chicago next month, NYC in May, two cities in Europe over the summer, etc. Coronavirus disproportionately kills older men, the risk of death from it for a 30-something woman seems to be no greater than from the regular flu and flu shots aren’t very effective so I don’t really consider myself protected against regular flu either (I’ve had flu several times despite getting the shot). Honestly, measles is a bigger concern for me, even though I’m theoretically immunized. It would be unlikely for a person on a plane to spread flu or coronavirus (from what we know about it) to people on the plane they weren’t sitting right next to or sharing food with. One person with measles can easily spread the disease to the whole plane. It spreads about 10x as easily as the flu/coronavirus.
Anon
The plane thing actually makes me hopeful. Some of the cases in the US are people who came back on commercial flights, not part of the evacuation — I can think of 5 such cases; some were people visiting family in China, some were college kids on winter break. So they fly 10+ hours back to the US, and we are NOT hearing that ANYONE on their flights got it. I mean it does stink that the people on their flights are (or were — some of this was more than 2 weeks ago so incubation was over) under watch/self quarantined, but ultimately we haven’t heard that any of these people developed anything.
I say just be careful on planes — they’re dirty and you’re packed in there. Hand sanitize. Personally I’d say don’t eat on planes — eat before you leave home and then when you’re at your destination — simply because you’ve touched luggage, TSA bins, overhead bins, seatbelts etc. and even with sanitizer your hands aren’t 100% clean. Obviously this works on a 2 hour flight to Fla. (and for some people it still doesn’t), it doesn’t work on a 10+ hour flight anyplace.
Anon
You can usually eat on planes without putting your hands on your food. Just skip the roll or whatever that comes with dinner. Entrees/salads/desserts can be eaten with knife and fork.
Anon
True I meant more on domestic flights though where people walk on with their sandwiches or the airline provides pretzels or chips or whatever which people then eat with their hands. Though I guess you can still make it work — pick up a soup or salad at the airport if you’re starving or a snickers bar/granola bar for a snack; you can eat without touching each potato chip with hands that have touched everything else in the airport.
Anon
+1. I’ve never contracted a disease like flu from a plane or a public place, only from family, friends and co-workers that I had much closer contact with. Coronavirus appears to spread very much like flu, so I don’t worry about picking it up from casual contact.
Anon
Wow. I feel like I get sick nearly every time I travel by plane. Often someone has sneezed or coughed right on me at some point though; it’s just so crowded.
Anon
Wouldn’t go to China but also not Asia generally — it’s spreading thru Japan, Singapore etc. Not worth it for a vacation.
Anokha
Our company has prohibited all Asia travel, so I am using that as my benchmark. I also wouldn’t do a cruise right now.
Anon
In a department meeting just yesterday, my department announced a new initiative in China and then clearly said — we are NOT sending anyone to China or Asia at all nor will we allow it even if you want to go; it’s the early part of the initiative so right now it’s research, report writing, planning etc. — site visits would normally come in 6 mos but the way they were talking about it, I’d be shocked if they allowed any site visits in 2020.
BabyAssociate
I’m going to Asia in March and am not going to cancel and genuinely do not feel like I’m taking an unreasonable risk as a person with no underlying health concerns that would make me more susceptible to getting sick. That being said, I think it’s very likely the trip will get cancelling because airline are suspended many of those flights.
Anon
Where in Asia? You’d better hope your flights get canceled on the way there because it would be much worse if you get there, have a great old time, and then in that 1-2 weeks the situation in whatever country you’re in worsens and there’s either a flight restriction by the US government OR even if there isn’t, airlines pull out as they see lack of demand on those routes (which is what United, American, and Delta did in China including Beijing/Shanghai before it was even announced by the government that there would be no flights to Wuhan). Not only do you want to be stuck from a health perspective but also a job perspective if you need to be back be a certain day.
And maybe your firm is different from mine but once you come back from Asia — anyplace in Asia — don’t you feel your fellow associates (and some partners too) will distance themselves, want you to work from home for 14 days etc.? Big companies like Goldman have announced such measures (work from home if you or anyone in your household went to China in the last 14 days) but those announcements in large part came because their associates were like — uh I’m in the office 24-7, have a ton of work, last thing I need is someone returning from their China vacation here and now I’m wondering about every single sniffle. And Goldman and many other banks acted on it because they want the rest of their associates to feel “comfortable” and keep producing their billable hours. And while I realize it’s officially just for China, let’s be real people are feeling that way for all of Asia right now.
BabyAssociate
I’m not going to China and I am of course aware of all of these considerations. I already had part of my itinerary cancelled (layover in China) and it was very easy to get it rebooked and rerouted, which is what will also happen if any of the other flights get cancelled. Again, I think do it’s incredibly likely that it will get cancelled entirely because the airline will stop running the flights, which I am checking every morning.
Yes, my firm knows. No one has raised any concerns, but if I get back and they ask me to work from home for 2 weeks. So be it.
Anon for this
I work for a UK bank (not a Goldman type one, a retail one) and the rule we have had put out is:
– if you or close family have returned from China in the last 14 days, self isolate at home.
– if YOU have returned from one of a list of Asian countries and regions (including Japan and Macau) in the last 14 days, self isolate at home.
Self isolating to take the form of working from home if possible or extra leave on full pay if not. A colleague of mine is about to head to Australia, connecting through Hong Kong, and seems pretty stoked about an extra two weeks working from home when she gets back from her holiday.
We’ve been asked to log any travel plans to the affected countries for the next 2-3 months for forward planning purposes.
Anon
You/your friend may be stoked for work from home, but biglaw firms — which often have little international exposure as compared to banks and certainly do NOT have diverse associates — are going to be annoyed. The policies aren’t as established (see little international exposure or diversity) so what will end up happening is people saying — ugh I can’t believe X went to freaking Singapore; I don’t need to be catching anything; I’m busy and stressed as it is; I don’t want her in the same conference rooms as me. Partners will agree for the billable needs for associates to be healthy and then associate X gets the side eye and gets put on work from home, while partners make a mental note that this person is an inconvenience/not a team player and couldn’t they just go to Monaco for their vacation like everyone else? At least this is how my NYC firm operates. Maybe I’m wrong and there are firms and partners out there that are more open minded.
Anon 4 this
I’m at a US law firm and we have the same rule.
Anon for this
Anon at 1:20 – I didn’t say anyone except that colleague was stoked. Some of the people on her team are a bit annoyed that she’ll effectively be out for five weeks in a row, given the three week holiday plus the two weeks WFH.
cbackson
My firm wouldn’t have cared at all so long as you were working and billing as expected from him, but WFH was incredibly common for us and face time wasn’t a thing unless you were brand new. Biglaw but not NYC.
anon
I wouldn’t go to China or on a cruise. I would think twice before any of asia really, but past that I am not changing anything.
Anon
Um yeah, the Diamond Princess Cruise is heavy evidence that being in such close quarters will encourage the virus spread, not hinder it. There were initially nine infected and now there are hundreds from that boat infected in the span of a couple weeks – probably from the prepared foods, towels, etc. that infected staff were preparing.
Anonymous
They think the ventilation system was involved too – common venting on the ship.
Anon
I don’t need to travel by plane, feel bad about the environmental impact of traveling by plane, have young (part Chinese) kids, and live in the SF Bay Area, so there’s plenty to see within a few hours’ drive.
I’m trying to avoid plane travel this year due to all of the above plus coronavirus risk. I’m not yet worried about catching the virus (the flu is such a bigger risk!), but rather about exposing my kids to racism. Our extended family all live in areas with limited Asian populations and there’s a risk of encountering coronavirus-related racism in those areas, especially if one of us gets sick.
Also, if there is a coronavirus outbreak in the US, I really want to be at home and not stuck far away.
Anon
I’m going to Panama in a week and I’m traveling with friends (one of whom is a doctor) and no one has raised any concerns re: flying. My colleague is going to Japan with friends in March. She is still planning on going but cautiously watching developments, particularly re: flight cancellations.
Anon
I traveled recently to NYC and I washed my hands a lot more than I would have otherwise, but that was my only change. And honestly, something I should do more anyway.
Anonymous
We are barred from travelling to China, and instructed not to do unnecessary business travel to other heavily impacted countries.
Anon
Probably a stupid question but when you switch jobs (different units, not just a promotion) within one employer do you keep your accrued vacation time or do they pay it out like they would to a departing employee? I’m applying for jobs internally and have a ton of accrued vacation time I plan to use this summer, I’d hate to lose it all to a cash payout.
pugsnbourbon
When I moved departments at my old job (medium nonprofit) I kept all my accrued PTO. But you should ask your HR department.
anne-on
You keep it as far as I’ve experienced. That being said, you might need to be flexible with any pre-planned vacation, so I wouldn’t book anything non-refundable if you’re getting close to being made an offer in a different department.
anon
Completely depends on your employer. I’m switching soon, losing PTO (given upfront/not accrued, therefore no payout), but keeping sick days.
Renovation Logistics and Work
Help me out, hive, I cannot wrap my brain around this: We want to do a major renovation to our house. We have the money and are ready to start meeting with an architect. The issue is that both DH and I have very limited vacation time and are struggling to understand how we will manage prebuild meetings, contractor interviews and bids and construction-related time constraints throughout the project (which may take 6-12 months). We also will probably need time to relocate to temp housing during the construction. If you’ve been through this, how do you handle it? Only take meetings in the evenings/on weekends? Am I just overthinking this?
Senior Attorney
Generally contractors will accommodate you regarding meetings — you’re the client, after all. When I was doing my renovation I did a lot of meetings very early in the morning, before work. But honestly it’s going to take a lot of time and if you have limited vacation time that’s probably how you’re going to use it this year.
anon
Flex work hours (ie, go in at 6 AM and work until 2 PM, then contractor meetings)? Working from home? When I had to be present, I was able to work from home, but my projects have been shorter-term. After finding a contractor, I have found that he was able to communicate via cell phone (text/calls) after work hours, but generally liked to communicate during the work day. We also never had to move out of the house (but we hadn’t moved in when they were doing wall and painting work).
Anon
Evenings and weekends. My architect has been great about evening conference calls and Saturday visits.
Anonymous
I recently completed a pretty major reno ($100k, several rooms) and didn’t take vacation time except for the day I moved in after the work was done. I booked meetings before and after work and several during the day, just like I would any mtg or appt. Just blocked it off on my calendar. The caveat here is that my job doesn’t require PTO for that. I bill my time, so I just had to make up those hours to hit my targets at some other time. I was already living elsewhere, about 30 mins away. I checked on the house a couple evenings a week while work was ongoing, but generally I trusted the contractor I hired and didn’t feel the need to micromanage. If I noticed something during an evening visit I just texted the contractor, often with a pic and we would chat about it via text or phone.
IMO, a reno is something you can spend a ton of time on or relatively little, depending on how decisive you are…I make decisions very quickly and picked out all my fixtures, floors, etc. for two bathrooms in about an hour over 2 mtgs with the contractor and his designer. I had done some research myself but considered their input on materials and design as well.
Ultimately, I’d say know yourself and how much research/decision time you need and make sure you are comfortable with your contractor. I found the entire process to be much easier than I thought it would be and am very happy with the results.
Anonymous
Are early mornings an option for you? I’ve had a lot of luck setting meetings at like 7-8 am.
Flats Only
At least in Northern VA, the actual guys doing the building seem to start their day very early – at the job site by 7:00 AM. I expect you would find that others in the industry could also meet with you before work. For the bids, you can invite the several contractors all to one “bid walk” meeting, so you don’t have to meet each of them at a different date/time to get their bids. Or schedule them one after another over 1/2 a day.
Anon
Has anyone traveled extensively (or at all) in the Arab world? Countries such as Oman, Bahrain, UAE, Qatar, Lebanon, Jordan, or Morocco (Africa I know but still of interest)? Where would you recommend going and how (i.e. group tour for safety?) for a woman traveling alone who just feels like spending some time in that part of the world? What are the safest countries for women? What are the countries where travel felt “normal” as in, you flew in when you wanted and flew out when you wanted (as opposed to places in Saudi where they take your passport and while 99.9% of people get it back, there is that fear — though maybe this is only true for people on the religious pilgrimage visa). Where did you go where you felt you could walk around a souk (local market) and feel safe/where you could get by not being an Arabic speaker vs. where did you go where you stayed in your beautiful hotel but didn’t feel you could go out?
IDK what’s drawing me except that I’m Muslim (though not super practicing and a south Asian, not Arab) and I just want to see that part of the world — the history, but also eat the food and see the “chaos” of it all, as well as the pretty parts like beaches etc. (yes I realize these aren’t places where you’d get into a bathing suit etc). I feel like all of my faith centers on that part of the world, so while I don’t want/need this to be a religious trip, I do want to see that part of the world.
I imagine as a woman you’d ONLY do this with a group tour right? These don’t seem like solo travel countries to me. FWIW I’m looking for a recommendation that is NOT Dubai. If I was in that region, I’d probably go to Dubai for 2-3 days as I love fancy hotels etc. but I don’t think that gets me the sense of culture that I’m looking for at least not in the city full of skyscrapers itself.
Anon
My cousin had a great experience traveling with her now-husband in Morocco for six weeks and had no safety issues or trouble finding things to do. I’d love to visit Morocco and Jordan, but I wouldn’t really go anywhere else at this point. I’d never visit Saudi Arabia as a woman, for either work or pleasure.
Anon
Not the OP — and that’s fine for you but there are reasons people want to go to Oman or Qatar or Lebanon or Saudi (esp Muslims). Fine if it isn’t for you and you want to “take a stand” about not going places because PRINCIPLES, but there are cultural draws for certain people that I think you don’t understand if you aren’t from those cultures/adjacent cultures.
Anon
This is a post asking for recommendations on safety and where to go. We’re allowed to comment and have different opinions. OP did NOT post saying “hey I love Saudi Arabia and I can’t wait to go” – that would be a different question and not the place to come out against visiting.
Minnie
I have traveled extensively globally, and some in the Middle East, and lived in Jordan (Amman) for about six months. I would say I’m generally a pretty bold traveler (I don’t have a heightened sense of personal danger in other countries). Also, I speak a little Arabic, but I’m a fairly obvious Western white lady. So that’s my context here.
Personally, I would pick Jordan or Egypt–the history in those countries is obviously amazing, Jordan particularly if you’re religious. My guidance would be to do it with a group. For safety reasons, yes, but mostly for logstical reasons. Getting around the Middle East is not like getting around Europe or even some parts of East Asia, where you can just check the timetables for the train or bus, hop on, and get where you need to go in a safe and hygienic fashion. You will need to get around by automobile, and dealing with taxi drivers is a HUGE stressor in both Jordan and Egypt (can’t speak directly to other countries but I’d guess the same). It’s like full-on bartering to agree on a price half the time, you’re captive in a vehicle with a man, etc. You will have so much more freedom to see things you want to see with a tour group.
That said, I sympathize with your desire to be able to wander around on your own. Jordan’s big cities (Amman and Aqaba particularly) are, in my experience, fine for that. Less so during the nighttime was my experience, though crowded areas were fine (I had way more issues in my quiet suburban neighborhood). Egypt is my absolute favorite country in the world–I’ve been there many times–but you will experience some sexual harassment. I never felt in danger but it’s very annoying.
I hate telling people about this, though, because I love the Middle East. There is nowhere like it.
Anon
OP here — you hate tell people about what? Harassment? I’m from an eastern culture and a Muslim woman, I get it and am not so utterly shocked. That’s why I’m interested in picking a relatively safer place, going with groups if I have to etc. I’m not some country bumpkin who’d be shocked that in many parts of the world a woman can’t walk around alone or shouldn’t be in a taxi alone with a man etc. I do think that’s how I’ll feel about the Middle East though — that there’s nothing else like it; I really don’t know what’s calling me there . . . .
Minnie
I mean, I was very well-traveled by the time I got to Egypt, definitely worldly, not a shrinking violet, had experienced more than my fair share of catcalling (including in my own Midwestern city and many other American cities), but the level of street harassment I’ve experienced in Cairo is, like, something else. It’s not so much shocking (in a “why is the world like this???” kind of way) as it is just surprisingly annoying, even for someone who expects that sort of thing. Saying that, I think there has been some local pushback on this issue, so it may have improved since I was there.
You will love the Middle East. For me, it is a place that does not disappoint. It sounds like you’re very open to the idea of doing a group experience, so I would just plan on that. It will be so much easier, and there’s plenty to choose from, so you can target the kinds of things you want to see and not have to worry about the logistics of getting around safely, but still have some freedom to explore on your own during some afternoons and evenings.
Anon
Any recs for groups you’ve heard of that are good?
And a super dumb question — I am fully aware that when one travels abroad, bottled water everywhere — bring it with you if you have to into shops; brush teeth with it etc. But were you drinking tea/coffee in places like Jordan or Qatar? I’d imagine those are ok because they are boiled water but not sure. But when in Rome . . . I know these are big tea and coffee places.
BabyAssociate
I did drink bottled water, but definitely drank coffee/tea and brushed my teeth with tap water.
LLBMBA
You do not need to drink bottled water everywhere while travelling abroad. It depends on where abroad. Canada? Drink the water from the tap. Same with Italy, France, Singapore, etc. I’m less familiar with Jordan or Qatar, but I think the list of places where you can’t drink the normal water is smaller than you think.
Minnie
I have actually traveled with Overseas Adventure Travel as well as Intrepid, and I can’t remember which one I did the Jordan/Egypt trip with, but I did a Red Sea boat trip where we started in Jordan (traveling overland) and then got on a boat to do various ports in Egypt and wound up in Cairo. It was definitely more tailored to an older traveler, though I see that Intrepid now does targeted trips for under-30s so that might be fun. For a first-time Middle East visitor who wants to get a lot of bang for their (likely significant) buck, I think the Jordan/Egypt boat tour setup is great. Of course, it does take kind of a long time (like two full weeks, plus flight time) so if you’re conserving vacation days that’s not the right route.
Personally, I did drink coffee and tea in Jordan that was made with tap water. My recollection is that it’s not so much of an overall sanitation concern–I think their water is fairly clean–but because of the way domestic water tends to be stored in tanks (that are refilled on a schedule–there is extreme water rationing in Jordan), it just was pleasanter to drink bottled water. (Same situation in places like Cyprus–obviously the tap water there is safe, but most residents will encourage you to drink bottled water instead just because it’s…nicer?) Egyptian water, meanwhile, was a big no-go for me. Supposedly it’s safe in Cairo but bottled water is cheap and plentiful.
Anon
Yes I didn’t mean EVERYWHERE overseas. I drink the water in Canada, the UK, France — [gasp] I’ll even eat raw fruits and vegetables there. And yet I know you don’t do these things everywhere in the world.
lydia
even if you’re drinking bottled water, tea is fine (it’s boiled). just don’t drink tap water. also better not to wash vegetables and fruit in tap water if you’re worried.
anon
I drank tea and coffee in Qatar and in the UAE. I’ve never been to Jordan or Egypt (hopefully sometime soon)
BabyAssociate
I used Careem to get around in the Middle East (I think it’s now owned by uber) and found it very, very easy and cheap. There’s no bartering. I also drove in Jordan, which worked for me, but isn’t something I’d necessarily recommend.
Anon
Egypt isn’t safe for women.
BabyAssociate
I’ve been to both Qatar and Jordan, the former solo and the latter with a (female) friend, but not with a group. They’re very different places, but I felt perfectly comfortable in both. Jordan has a number of significant architectural (and religious) sites, plus the landscape is really varied. If you’re interested in history/culture, I cannot recommend Jordan enough. Doha has a preserved historic harbor and a few really wonderful museums (the Museum of Islamic Art is perhaps my favorite museum ever), but it’s also a lot of fancy international hotels that could really be anywhere. Definitely try to go to the falcon festival if you go to Qatar. I’ll note that while I do not speak much Arabic, I can read it a bit, which I found helpful, but not essential.
Anon
So helpful – thanks! Looks like I should target Jordan and Qatar for the experience I’m looking for – at least for a first trip.
BabyAssociate
I’ll also add that depending on where you’re flying from, you may very well connect through Doha anyway and you can easily add a stopover on Qatar Airways!
anon
If you are flying anywhere that Qatar Air services you can do a stopover in Doha for free. They even give you an allowance for part of your hotel stay and give you a free tour of the harbor. I did it en route to South Africa and it was a good experience
Traveler
I’ve traveled a mix of solo and with groups in UAE, Jordan, Qatar, Egypt, and Morocco. Second the recommendation to go with a tour group for ease of logistics. I have heard great things about Intrepid. And YES, absolutely drink the tea! It’s boiled, and also delicious and part of the awesome experience!
Jordan recommendations
Just wanted to say that I traveled solo in Jordan. I had no safety issues whatsoever. I am a highly experienced traveler and fairly unflustered, though. I also did very little after dark.
If you go, I cannot recommend Petra highly enough.
Ness
Have done twice Morocco, one with a organized group and another with a small one (6 women). No problem at all, we could move being women in the main cities (Marrakesh, Tetuan, Chaouen…) not being distourbed at all in our own.But I would not have gone without the guides to the countryside.
We were in Jordan too once with a group but a lot of tourist were in their own. I do not remember women alone. It seemed a quite safe and moderm and it seems the country where women have more rights.
For businnes I have gone a lot to Egypt and Tunisia, to the first I never go anyplace in my own (and I am not allowed to do it neither) but in Tunisia you can move in your own being a woman with no problem at all. It will be my first choice to travel alone there (and after that Morocco).
Ms B
I did a couple weeks in Morocco about ten years ago with The International Kitchen. The Hubs and I generally do not prefer tours, but we wanted to get outside of the larger cities and having a local driver/coordinator plus local guides in each location made a lot of sense because we do not speak Arabic and English speakers were not plentiful (although I was able to do my own bartering, etc. in middling French with locals who had similar French). We did deal with some catcalling and a couple pinches (the French came in handy to keep it to a minimum) and our driver was essential in dealing with the local constabulary when we were driving through some of the more remote areas.
That said, it is a country not to be missed. There is so much history and so many sites to see, many well-preserved, with a lot of geographic diversity (the mountains! the palmeries! the shore! the desert!).
Anon
I’ve been to the UAE and I think it’s 100% fine to travel alone as a woman there. You want to dress conservatively and avoid hanging out in bars, but they are proud of their very low crime rate and there are many, many western expats. I don’t think it’s vacation worthy unless you love malls, though.
Anonymous
Egypt, Morocco..?
Anonymous
I am in meeting often with a male coworker who will start sentences with “again” when saying something for the first time to me. As in “Again…this is how it works bla bla bla”. How do I combat this . It makes him sound so superior all the time and me less so.
Anonymous
“Wait, *did* you already say that? This is the first time I’m hearing you say it . . .”
anon
no advice, but an elderly neighbor, every time you see her, will greet you with a loud ‘Aaah, yes!’, making you feel as if you were late for meeting her. I’ve filed it under peculiar verbal tic.
Anon
“Can I ask why you said “again”? Is this something you’ve told me before and I missed it? Apologies if that is the case.” Maybe go in with a genuine question and that will warn him that he is over using this word.
Vicky Austin
If his name is Chris, I am currently procrastinating returning a call from him due to this exact issue.
Vicky Austin
oops, for 12:34 above