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Updated: Dec 14, 2018 267 Comments · by

Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Drape Front Top

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. This top keeps catching my eye, and I think it would be great for work and beyond — I actually bought a dress with a wrap feature like this earlier this year (which I think I featured here, but can't find now) and it's one of my easiest throw-on-and-go pieces. The top is available in regular, petite, and plus sizes in teal and burgundy, at Nordstrom, for $38.20. Halogen® Ponte Drape Front Top This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support! Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.

See More Recent Picks from Corporette®:

Sales of note for 9.19.24

  • Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September, and cardmembers earn 3x the points (ends 9/22)
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Boden – 15% off new styles
  • Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
  • J.Crew – 50% off select styles — and 9/19 only, 50% off the cashmere wrap
  • J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
  • Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
  • Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
  • Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – Anniversary event, 25% off your entire purchase — Free shipping, no minimum, 9/19 only
  • Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
  • Tuckernuck – Friends & Family Sale – get 20%-30% off orders (ends 9/19).
  • White House Black Market – 40% off select styles

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. Anonymous

    What are your best neck pillows for sleeping on the plane? Memory foam seems to ooze away from me, and the kind that wrap around your neck make me feel like I’m being strangled. I am also short and most things seem like they are made for bigger necks.

    • Abby

      I’m not short, but I recently bought a Travelrest ultimate memory foam neck pillow for a trip to Asia…18+ hours flying one way. It straps in the front which I found handy, and it folded up pretty small. A little pricey, but it was comfy!

    • Anonymous

      I got one of the inflatable “side sleeper” neck pillows, and it has indeed changed my life. I am tall (5’9”) but I don’t think that it makes a difference

    • Anonymous

      Following with interest. The last one I got on Amazon had great reviews but it’s too tall for me and it hurts my ears.

    • Duckles

      I don’t know if you count the TRTL ones as “wrap”? They have been a game changer for me and I am buying them for everyone for Christmas. All the foam ones are too big for me and super uncomfortable.

    • Anon

      The J pillow for me, although nothing really makes a huge difference in economy.

  2. Anon

    It’s the 6th anniversary of the Sandy Hook shooting, and I can’t stop thinking of the families and friends who lost their loved ones. I am so angry at this country for failing on gun control. And there’s a certain rage at the fact we elected president who sided with Alex Jones, who has made these parents lives a living hell. I used to be so patriotic, and now I have this deep sense of resentment towards the country and Trump voters.

    • Cb

      I just finished Michelle Obama’s book and her description of Sandy Hook had me sobbing.I miss my family in the US but I’m grateful that a school shooting is not something that I need to worry about here in the UK. There was a horrific shooting in the 1990s and large-scale changes to gun laws as a result.

    • anon a mouse

      I came to post something similar. It’s a great shame to our nation that we did not take immediate action to protect children from this sort of violence in the wake of Columbine, Sandy Hook, and others. I am unbearably sad reading the names and the stories from those families, but I feel it’s my duty to honor them.

      I hope that the inspired activism of the Parkland kids will usher in sensible gun reform. There’s a whole generation of kids who KNOW it doesn’t have to be like this, and are mad as heck at the lawmakers who ignore them. And the NRA is imploding so there should be increased political ability to actually represent what the people want here.

    • I agree

      I urge you to support Rep-elect Lucy McBath (D-GA-6th) who expressly ran on an anti-gun, anti-NRA platform supporting “common-sense gun control”. It would be difficult if not impossible to actually take back guns from legal owners in the US. However, there are many laws that can be passed and enforced to support gun control and prevent random and reckless shootings, especially mass shootings. I’m sure there are other newly elected representatives and senators who are similar in views to her. However, her son died from a gunshot in the infamous “loud music” case – I’m sure you saw headlines about it – and she has really turned her grief into positive activism, as well as being a great asset to her local (formerly Republican) district.

      The one that gets me is from March 1998, the middle school shooting near Jonesboro, Arkansas. Just a massacre of kid by 11-year-olds who grew up hunting. So wrong.

      And yes — I advocate for mental health care, too.

      • anon

        What are the laws that would prevent mass shootings? Bump stocks – let’s do it yesterday. Other than that, the proposals would not have actually stopped any of the recent shootings. I am not using this as an excuse to do nothing – I think we should still take action. I’m just curious what you mean by laws that would have prevented the mass shootings.

        • Anon

          I know you mean well, but you’re just going to derail the conversation asking for policy statements from lay people. Obviously there are laws that prevent it and policymakers can study the laws of other Western nations where guns are legal, that had mass shootings, passed laws to prevent them, and they have largely worked – shootings do happen but the frequency and scale are drastically lower (ex. Australia in the 90s). This poster has no obligation to justify herself and appease you – there are real world examples of policy that works and it is the job of the people we elect and pay for with our income and property taxes to study and figure out the details.

          • Suburban

            This times a million.

            It’s fair to say you’d rather live in a country with frequenct mass shootings than with more gun regulation. Not fair to say gun regulation will not curb mass shootings when it does so in every other country.

        • Anon

          Waiting periods, mandatory background checks, laws that prohibit people with mental illness for purchasing guys, higher age limits for gun purchases (why can a 20 year old buy a gun to kill people, but can’t buy alcohol?)

          • Anonymous

            plus a million. raise the age to 25 yesterday. seems like such a simple step.

    • Marie

      Even more heartbroken and angry, as I just got a local news alert that the school has dismissed early today because of a bomb threat called in this morning. Really feeling terrible about humanity when I think about the monster who would do that to that poor community.

    • Alanna of Trebond

      What’s the story with the recent mass gun violence in Canada and France? How can we prevent gun violence if countries with gun control also appear to have an uptick? This is a genuine question – I would prefer to repeal the 2nd amendment.

      • lawsuited

        Gun laws have actually softened in Canada in recent years, which many Canadians believe has contributed to the uptick in gun violence. For example, the long gun registry was ended in 2012 as a cost-saving measure.

  3. anon

    I went on a first online date with a guy this week. It was fine, but I wasn’t feeling it for various reasons. At the end of the date, he asked if he could drive me home. I politely said no and that I’d get a Lyft instead. He pushed again and was like, “Really? Come on, it’s on my way and I don’t mind at all.”

    I again said no (with a smile) and nicely but firmly said I would be getting a Lyft. He seemed annoyed that I said no. The fact that he seemed annoyed made ME annoyed, because I think a guy should understand that a woman isn’t going to jump in the car with a guy she’s just met, even if she does like him!

    I don’t like the dynamics of suddenly being in his space and him having all the control. Also, he is a stranger from the internet who I have spent a couple of hours with. Even if I did like him, I still don’t think I would have accepted the ride! I just don’t know him at all.

    What do you all think? What’s typical after a first online date? Was I right to be annoyed by him pushing it?

    • Anon

      Yeah that’s a hard pass for me. He should understand why a woman wouldn’t want to get in a car with a relative stranger.

    • Mrs. Frankweiler

      Ladies, listen up. You are 100% correct and you should always always always listen to yourself. Listen to the instinct that says “this isn’t safe” (SSDGM), listen to the instinct that says “I didn’t like that he did that” or “I didn’t like what he said there.” Dating isn’t a charity act. You do not owe anyone your time, your body, your mind, your explanation. You do not have to give him a second chance. You do not have to give him a first chance. Toss those bad fish back in the ocean. Get in the habit of doing that regularly.

      • Anonymous

        Yes, thank you, very well said.

        I’m SO TIRED of complaining about stuff like this to friends* and they make excuses for the guy! You’re being too hard on him, he was just trying to be nice, etc. I’M THE ONE WHO WAS THERE AND I GOT A CREEPY VIBE BACK ME UP! Women are already taught to be agreeable. We already feel like – oh gosh maybe I should’ve been nicer. We don’t need to reinforce that doubt in each other! We should build up each other’s confidence in our ability to say NO when we’re uncomfortable.

        *Yes I have started to be more choosy about my friends.

        • Anon

          I will be your Internet friend who tells you to listen to your intuition.

          Your one job is to politely but firmly decline. If he accepts that, it’s because he’s a good person who was trying to be kind and see you get home safely. If he makes a fuss, run.

          • Ellen

            Yes, once you are in HIS car, who knows where he COULD take you, or what he might have done if he had taken you there. There are alot of loosers out there with cars, and you read about people getting s-xueally molested by them when they are in his space — like his car. I read about an UBER driver that s-xually attacked a female passenger when she got a ride from NYC up to Weschester, and then he drove her home, and they arrested him. If you can’t trust UBER, then you certainly cant trust some schmoe who could be plotting to do the same, or worse. With all the loosers out there, I say FOOEY to letting ANY man drive me home, even tho I live in NYC. I say absolutely no to letting a guy into my apartement after a date, even if he only needs to go to the toilet, b/c once he is in there, everyone assumes that you want him to come in to have s-x. TRIPEL FOOEY ON THAT!

        • Em

          Yes, offering is being nice. But not accepting your “no” and that you may be uncomfortable with it, NOPE – not nice. I have a tendency of erring on being nice and when I read your post I immediately thought “hard pass.” Good for you for listening to your instinct!

    • anon

      Men can be really clueless about this stuff. It’s so frustrating. Sometimes, rather than being concerned with a woman’s reasonable concerns about safety, they’ll choose to take it personally– “ugh, you don’t trust me!?!?! WHINE!” Pay him no mind. It’s annoying. IME it’s not uncommon for men to offer, but usually the are understanding when I decline.

    • Leah

      He’s either pushy and clueless, or an intentional boundary stomper. Neither is great, but one is worse. If you were vibing, I might say to cautiously give him another shot, but if you’re not into it, I’d write him off.

    • Anonymous

      At the risk of sounding like a huge nerd, safety first! My trick with online dates (or really any dates for that matter) is to always have something to go to/do afterwards. It is not a genius life hack, but it works to say that you have to go to your friends house to pick up her spare key or run back to the office to get your lap top, or go to a surprise birthday party for a member of your women-only book club. Leave no room for them to weasel more time out of you if you’re not feeling it.

    • Anonymous

      He wasn’t just offering you a ride home. This was step 1 in trying to get in your pants. He was annoyed because you shut him down.

      I’ve had guys make all kinds of nice-sounding excuses to try to incrementally push toward the bedroom. First they offer you a ride home. Then they make some excuse to get into your house – they need to use the bathroom, get a glass of water, sober up before driving home – totally innocent they swear! Then once they’re inside they get handsy and even more pushy. If you say no they say well you asked me to come inside so you knew what would happen (I only let you in because you said you needed to pee!). I’ve had this happen to me a couple of times (I know I know) and I’ve had to threaten to call the police before they would leave. You saved yourself a lot of trouble.

      • Anonymous

        Yeah I don’t let guys into my home unless and until I want to sleep with them.

      • anon

        I really really really really dislike the idea that lots of men seem to have that if they manage to get into your home that s*x is on the table. SO OFTEN. Even guys who seem like they should not be skeevy. It drives me absolutely crazy, and now no one is allowed into the house anymore unless I’ve already decided I want to sleep with you.

        • Anonymous

          So I’m the person you’re responding to and I want to highlight your point about – guys who should not be skeevy. Every time this has happened to me, it was with a friend or friend-of-friend who I felt safe around. All of these situations also could have been avoided with Uber and Lyft, and I’m so so grateful that these things exist now.

    • Anon for dating issues

      This is a huge red flag. I’ve had a couple of guys offer to drive me home after a first online date, and they have always prefaced it with “if you’re comfortable with that” and one even offered to drop me a block or two away so he doesn’t see exactly where I live. All have been completely understanding and gracious when I declined.

      • Metallica

        Was just popping in to say the same thing—his insistence after she declined the Initial offer is creepy and a major red flag. Good on you for standing your ground, OP.

    • Anon

      Your gut is absolutely right, that is not typical after a first online date. I live in a city where I drive to many first dates, but sometimes I walk if we’re meeting near my condo. I think it’s possible some guys would offer a ride as a courtesy, but none of the good ones are going to get annoyed or push you. Besides the fact I’m not 100% comfortable jumping in a complete stranger’s car, my building doesn’t have a doorman or security cameras, so no, he doesn’t get to know where I live with any sort of specificity until I’m ready to invite him there.

    • Anon

      Whenever I doubt myself in situations like this, I try to remember the villain from the Incredibles 2 when Helen is shocked at being conned: “Why would you count on me?…WE DON’T KNOW EACH OTHER!”

      It was one of the realest statements from the movie. A few conversations and short time spent together does not make trust.

    • Anon

      Look at it this way

      1) he’s not a rapist and is annoyed that you acted like he was one

      2) he is a rapist and is annoyed that he didn’t get to rape you

      While the chances that he is actually a rapist are low, the consequences if he is one are high.

      He can go ahead and be annoyed. You did the right thing, and I would not go out with this guy again if he can’t figure out why a woman he just met might not feel safe alone in a car with a stranger.

    • Worry about yourself

      First I’ll say good on you for holding firm on your boundaries. You were under no obligation to get in that car! I do, however, want to offer some explanations as to why he didn’t want to accept no for an answer, and I hope you don’t feel like I’m dismissing your feelings in posting this, I just like looking at things from different points of view to gain a better understanding of why people behave the way they do.
      Maybe he interpreted your insistence on getting a Lyft as “I’d rather spend money on something I don’t need than spend any more time with you,” which may have been true but didn’t feel good.
      Maybe he’d mapped it out in his mind that this was gonna clinch a kiss, s-x, and/or a second date and now he was being denied that possibility.
      Maybe he thought driving the lady home so she doesn’t have to walk, take the subway, or order a Lyft was the “gentlemanly” thing to do, and he’d feel bad if he didn’t perform that action for you. I wish modern-day chivalry pivoted away from a series of gendered, old fashioned actions that men must perform whether they’re wanted or necessary, and instead focused more on men respecting women’s boundaries, and understanding how certain behaviors and situations may make a woman feel uncomfortable even if your intentions are honorable.

  4. Lily

    I know we talk a lot about office gifts on here and a lot of people are opposed to them, and I completely understand that argument. But I need to say that sometimes, getting a little gift with a heartfelt note can mean the absolute world. I’ve had a rough year in a lot of ways- a lot of changes in the office, working full time and going to school full time, and some personal things that have made the year really challenging. I tend to keep to myself, so my manager and coworkers don’t know how much I’ve been struggling. This morning I got to work and my boss had left on my desk a small gift and a card. In the card, she had written several paragraphs about how much she valued my work and appreciated everything I did throughout the year. She referenced specific projects that I had worked on and noted how I had improved in certain areas that I had been focusing on. The whole thing was so meaningful that I ended up in tears at my desk. The gift was lovely too- hand cream and a candle in a scent that happens to also be my name, but the note was just incredible. I had no idea I needed to hear those things that much until I read it. So, I guess this is just a PSA that says if you want to make people feel appreciated, worry less about if a candle or travel mug or scarf is a better gift and more about actually telling them how much you appreciate them.

    • +1

      I am sorry you’ve had a hard year. It sounds like you are a hard-working, sweet human. Congratulations on being awesome!

      I agree 100%. I am such a words of affirmation person that when the sr. associate I work with the most remembered my birthday and gave a super kind note and some stationary, I felt like a million bucks. Just the thought that someone who didn’t need to remember me did was so nice.

    • anon

      This is really lovely and has inspired me to give handwritten cards to my team on Monday.

    • anonnnnnn

      That IS lovely!

      My impression is that gifting UP is what’s objectionable, not a manager gifting to a team member.

  5. M

    For those with a graduate degree, how did you pay for it? I have my eyes on a second (although I’m only mid twenties) career in journalism and have been contemplating getting my master’s in journalism from Northwestern. I’m attracted to the program for numerous reasons (especially the specializations that they offer and that it’s only one year) but I can’t bring myself to take out a $63k student loan when I still have $28k left on my undergraduate loan. Obviously scholarships but I haven’t seen any hefty scholarships related to journalism that I would be eligible to apply for. Anything additional to research? I’m not interested in being told that writing is a dying field (as I’ve been told here before). Just wondering about graduate degree financial info.

    • Mrs. Frankweiler

      Here’s the thing, when deciding to get another degree you have to balance how much you will earn with that degree against the cost of getting it. Journalism is wonderful but very poorly paid. Unless you are financially independent, have a spouse or family with money, this is probably not a career that will enable you to live comfortably. Maybe that is okay with you, just know that going in. If it isn’t, perhaps find a better paying job and feed your journalism instinct by writing a newsletter (5 years ago I would have said a blog).

    • C

      I paid for my graduate degree through tuition exchange, but that was only an option because I worked in higher ed and did my degree while working. I specifically got an administrative job at a college that had a tuition exchange program with the school where I wanted to get my degree, and then went to classes at the other university in the evenings.

      • Anonymous

        ditto – I paid for my degree by going part-time while working at the University where I got my degree

    • Anon

      If you want to be a journalist, look at the career tracks and educational backgrounds of journalists whom you admire, and those who are like you (personality, thought process, etc.).

      Many journalists do not have journalism degrees: they are specialists in another field, or have JDs or MBAs, and use that expertise in their careers.

      That is not the answer you’re looking for, but you might be able to get that career without a Mercedes worth of student loan debt.

      • M

        I appreciate the input, I have actually been looking at LinkedIn pages for people with positions that I would want and seeing how they got there. I think that with my writing intensive job experience I could maybe get something entry level at a local newspaper but I don’t think I could get something in the foreign policy field which is what I’m mainly interested in (and what Northwestern has a track for).

        • Mpls

          Do people who do the Northwestern program actually get hired out of that program, though? If you are considering their program, they should be able to put you in contact with alumni that you can talk to about what they felt the value was in the program.

          • Mpls

            Adding to say – Also consider asking about these programs in informational interviewing. Does the employer see value in these programs? Have they heard of these programs? What is the experience they’ve had with people coming out of these programs vs real-world experience?

          • M

            Yes, Northwestern is one of the best and most respected journalism schools in the country

          • Anonymous

            “Best and most respected” really doesn’t necessarily add up to “graduates have good chances of getting hired and making a living in journalism.” Such an expensive one-year degree program could just as easily have won its reputation by attracting independently wealthy and previously well-educated students who now write as a past time without having to support themselves. I don’t know anything about this program, but you need to know if it’s a good program for someone with your goals.

          • Anonymous

            It means that if you think you’re going to get a J degree and do foreign policy reporting and get paid money for it, you’re delusional. The jobs aren’t there.

        • Hildy

          I would suggest looking into placement rates for graduates from the program you are looking at in the field you want. And then ask to speak to some of those people to understand (1) if they got the job from the program or from something else and (2) the realistic salary you could expect. Unfortunately there isn’t a magic solution to having school paid for. Spending 63k for a degree that *might* get you a job in a notoriously low paying field seems like a very expensive gamble in my opinion.

        • Anonymous

          FWIW many of my very dear friends are over a decade into their journalism careers. They are now senior editors or have their own columns or similar at very brand name publications (WaPo, NYT, LA Times, HuffPo, and others for print/writing, and I have one friend who is in radio and has his own segment on our major city’s NPR station). Only one has a masters at all (it is in journalism, and from Columbia). The rest all got into their roles through internships, jobs, and networking after undergrad.

        • Anon

          Per above, the question is what kinds of jobs *most or all* graduates get, not whether or not it is respected.

          You might be better off working on Capitol Hill or with a foreign service org than going to J-school. You need to understand the issues before you write about them, and you need connections.

    • Anon

      I was fortunate enough to get a small inheritance, which would have been enough to cover my degree at any school, but I wanted to save it for retirement so I found a public school (which happens to be one of the best in my field), paid in-state tuition, sought TA positions and research positions that offered tuition reimbursement, got a scholarship, and worked throughout to make the total bill $25k for two years. I did use inheritance money to pay for it, but the total amount ended up being low enough that I didn’t need to. The public school route made me feel much more comfortable with the idea of a graduate degree. I didn’t want to go into debt when jobs in my field don’t really pay that well.

    • Mpls

      More school isn’t always the answer! In looking at/interviewing for journalism jobs, is the lack of a specific journalism degree holding you back? If not, don’t go back to school. Don’t incur more school debt until that lack of a degree is holding you back from the next rung/promotion/raise.

      Most people’s career paths are an odd and varied path.

      • anon

        Take it from someone with an undergrad in journalism who has managed to advance pretty far in her career (although I decided to pursue marketing/comms instead of traditional journalism): In this field, your experience and portfolio counts more than your degree. I know plenty of people with master’s degrees in journalism, but a) they pursued those degrees at a state school and had tuition remission benefits; 2) they were already in the industry and wanted the master’s to update their skill set and eke out a small raise from their employers; or 3) wanted to have a director-level or administrative role in higher education, one of the few industries that requires a master’s degree for a chief communications officer-type position.

        If you’re set on a journalism degree, I wouldn’t do it at Northwestern. Yes, it’s an awesome, well-respected school, but it is $$$ and you are unlikely to have a salary that matches.

        Figure out a way to get some experience BEFORE you invest in more education.

    • Anonymous

      Why though? You’ll never get a job that pays off this debt. You’ve hardly worked.

    • Anon

      My employer paid for my degree. $63k for a degree is extremely expensive, I would worry that it’s not worth it financially.

    • Anon

      I know you don’t want to be told that writing is a dying field (too general of a statement) but you simply can’t consider how you will finance a graduate education without considering the likely compensation following the degree – it completely changes the answer.

      I’m not sure what new info you want, you know the only avenues to paying for an education just from common sense: pay for it out of pocket with savings, pay as you go (work full time or part time), apply for government grants, apply for loans, rich uncle, parents, spouse floating you while you study.

      If there is information personal to you that you are fairly certain will lead to generous compensation (ex. you have serious connections and a background in a niche field that has lots of openings, like a technical writer translating scientific studies to laymans), I’d say take the loans for school fees only and work part time to pay for your living costs (at least food and housing) so that you can fully concentrate for the two year degree (if it’s 63k for one year, consider a cheaper program).

      If you are uncertain of the career track or what it will pay, reconsider doing the program at all (there are ways to write without getting a Masters) or do a part-time program and work full time so that you reduce the monetary costs if it doesn’t pan out.

    • anon a mouse

      Ex-journalist here. Many famous journalists do not have journalism degrees. It can help open doors, but it is not a prerequisite to get a job as a writer. (My answer would be different if you wanted to do design or copy editing.) Be very realistic about what the program will likely get you and the debt burden. Journalism jobs do not qualify for loan forgiveness. Read up here: https://www.cjr.org/special_report/journalism-jobs.php/

      What type of writing do you want to do? The thing is, even as big journalism has consolidated, there are actually a lot of really great news sources for starting writers that serve as farm leagues for the big names. It’s not uncommon for someone to go from a contract position at Buzzfeed to a bigger magazine to a daily paper. Or to start somewhere like Vox or Buzzfeed where they focus on in-depth policy issues. Your ability to cultivate sources and to write well will matter far more than where you went to school.

      As far as paying for it, Poynter offers some grants/stipends. But unless you can save up to pay cash, you’re probably looking at loans. Would you consider taking on an aggressive side hustle for a year before you apply to reduce your debt load? (Another option would be to not go to a name-brand school and to look for state school options.)

      • Anon

        +1. I’m a writer (essentially an in-house journalist for a university) and I have no journalism or English degree. Most of my colleagues have liberal arts degrees with no journalism school. It’s not like law or med where the degree is mandatory.

    • anon

      I’m one of those jaded millennials who has seen multiple friends’ lives crushed by student loan debt, so I’m coming from that perspective, but I would not take on debt that I would not be able to pay off in a handful of years with my worst-case-scenario salary increase. I went back to school at in state State U in my mid 20s to change careers and ended up partly paying out of pocket and partly taking out loans, but the starting salary in my new career was double my salary in my old career. I was able to pay off my loans within a year or two. I would absolutely not take out $60k in loans to get a job that pays $25k a year.

      • Equestrian Attorney

        My closest friend is extremely bright, hard-working, and has a degree in journalism from one of the best schools in the country, plus an undergrad in international relations from another excellent school. She is fluent in five languages. She does foreign policy journalism and has gone from temporary assignment to temporary assignment at various prestigious newspapers/radio stations/TV channels, plus she juggles a ton of freelance projects on the side. She is often shipped to a different country every month, and it’s not necessarily the places you want to travel to. It’s virtually impossible for her to start a family or buy a house. She loves her life but it’s a rough life and she makes very little money, and she is considered successful at what she does. I know it’s not what you want to hear but if you want to do foreign policy journalism, this is the life.

        • anon

          I’m showing my age but this thread and your comment in particular just reminds me of Rory Gilmore’s goal of becoming the next Christiane Amanpour.

          • Anon

            Yesss! And then her meltdown when she didn’t get a job at the NYT – literally rejected from one incredibly prestigious job and she thinks her life is over. Ohh Rory.

    • AC

      If you aren’t already, you should start listening to the Longform Podcast. Their conversations with journalists almost always include how they got started in the field (which rarely includes a degree, and if the interviewee does have one they often express regret) and the finances of how they make their career work.

      As a general rule of thumb beyond a journalism degree, I wouldn’t take on more debt than you expect to take home in pay your first year post-grad in the workforce.

    • M

      I think everyone is missing my question. I am NOT taking on debt. I clearly said I can’t bring myself to take out a $63k loan. All I was looking for was ideas on how others paid for their degrees so I could research those this weekend along with scholarships. It’s not like I am starting this degree in January with no savings. I will save if I have to but I was hoping to find additional sources of funding. I hope no one’s first reaction was “you’ll never find a job” or “you’re delusional” when you told them your career interests.

      • Anonymous

        There aren’t other ways. You get a scholarship or you pay for it with money.

        • Anonymous

          The only other way I know of is to get a job at the university you want to attend and take advantage of free tuition, assuming the university offers it. This won’t work for a full-time degree program, unless you have a spouse you can convince to take the job so you can take the free tuition.

        • Anon

          Yup. Scholarship, family pays or you pay. Some universities also discount tuition for employees but grad programs like law/MBA/journalism are often excluded.

      • Anon

        I think you’ve still received good advice between the “be careful about this degree” stuff. Unless you you work full time for a $100k salary, you will have to take a loan out, maybe not for the full amount however. I think you should concentrate on how to defray costs. You know about researching scholarships and applying for federal grants, but some additional ways:
        1) Become a graduate student R.A. Yes you’ll have to deal with undergrads but that more than compensate for free housing, and in some cases free board – you’ll save a ton of money on living expenses.
        2) Working full time while pursuing the degree part time.
        3) Become a paid T.A.
        4) Take out low interest personal loans from relatives who you know can spare the money long term (don’t be predatory to blood) – sign a promissory note so they know you’re serious about paying back.
        5) Do jobs on the side that are flexible and/or that you can do while studying – tutoring, dog sitting, campus library, baby sitting older kids.
        6) Get a job with a company with tuition reimbursement as a benefit (even if it’s not the full cost) or a job with the university that allows workers to attend for free or reduced cost.
        7) Specifically apply to low cost but respected programs. Try in-state or out of state schools with low populations (think Nebraska or Wisconsin that give scholarships to out of state students for geographical diversity).
        8) Get a benefactor (kidding but not entirely – will your parents, grandparents or significant other gift some of the tuition or books?)

        It may not defray then entire cost, but a $20k loan is a whole lot more doable than$63k.

      • anon

        I wish people would have been more honest with me when I told them my career interests. In a nice way– the anonymous “hahahah you’re delusional” post was mean, but I really suspect this is the place most people are coming from. It was not clear from your OP that you had decided that you would ONLY do this is you didn’t have to take on debt.

      • Anon

        Honestly, I almost majored in Anthropology, but ended up with an IT degree because of people pointing out that I would be deeply in debt while making minimum wage. While my job isn’t my passion, I’m grateful to have money. I think with grad school too, the cost isn’t just the cost of the degree but also the cost of missed earnings. A one year degree nicely minimizes that, but if you end up spending $63k for a degree, the real financial impact is likely in the six figures. That said, Northwestern is a great school and realistically will help you get your foot in the door in a way that trying to break into the field without a degree can’t. It’s not that you shouldn’t do it, but you have to be very sure that it’s worth in in the same way here that people advise not going to law school unless you’re very sure you want to be a lawyer.

      • Hildy

        I think people are just speaking from their own experience or seeing friends get burned. As a lawyer with a lot of friends with a lot of debt they may never be able to pay off, I can tell you they wish someone had told them they were delusional or that they’d never find a job BRFORE they spent a lot of money on a degree. And lawyers actually need law degrees to practice, as other posters have pointed out, a journalism masters is not a prerequisite for a job in the field. I don’t think people are trying to kill your dreams but are trying to offer advice they wish they had received.

      • Anon

        As someone who does have a six figure job in brand/comm/marketing and was once interested in getting a masters in journalism at Northwestern because I could actually afford it if I was able to continue working, I am incredibly frustrated with the way their program is structured. They do not offer night classes or any kind of part-time option. The program seems intentionally set up to benefit those who can afford to not only give up a year of income but also pay 60K+ to attend. If they really wanted to attract a more diverse group of students, they would commit to restructuring their program and making it more viable for people to work while attending.

        • Original Moonstone

          Yes, I have some familiarity with this Northwestern program. You are paying a lot of money for theoretical access to the Medill network. Maybe that works out for some people. I was a working journalist for about 18 years and really didn’t care that I made not-much money and worked every Christmas, but in the end the jobs just got scarcer and scarcer and that’s a very stressful way to live. You can’t walk away from a toxic environment because there is nothing to go to. That said, if you end up in Chicago, post again and I’ll buy you a drink.

          • anon

            Thanks for your comment. I actually am in Chicago! Cheers to you for being a journalist as long as you were. Curious: what do you do now?

            I often feel I sold out because I just wasn’t willing to go into debt or not earn a living wage to pursue journalism. I have a very comfortable life now, but I am not exactly changing the world with it.

      • Coach Laura

        Some employers (Boeing, many big banks and other large employers) give some kind of tuition assistance for current employees. It doesn’t always have to be related to the person’s current job and there may be strings attached (have to work 1-2 years after the last class or repay – but they often don’t hold people to that arrangement). Boeing used to pay people to go to law school, for example, but stopped blanket coverage and now say that the reimbursement has to be related to the job. But if you got a job in their PR department, perhaps they’d pay for journalism. Something to check into.

    • Anonymous

      I worked at the university through grad school in an admin role. One of the benefits was free tuition. I had to pay tax on the benefit over a certain amount, so it wasn’t free, but it was ~10% (or whatever the blended tax rate ended up being) the cost of sticker. My job didn’t pay that much–I made about $35k when I could have been making $40-50k doing the same thing at a private company, but it was tangentially related to my degree and EXTREMELY flexible (allowed me to take a 3:30pm class, etc). It took me 4 semesters and a summer to complete a 3 semester program.

      My husband went to business school. He got a merrit scholarship so his tuition was only 50% sticker. On top of that, he worked part time at his old job for the first year. Then he got an internship that paid $30k over the summer. He went full time and did not work his second year. We took out loans and he graduated with about $40k in debt, but we had the cash in the bank to pay it off. We held onto it just in case I lost my job while he was in school and needed to pay the mortgage etc.

    • Nesprin

      Scientist here- my PhD was paid for by my school and a number of grants and fellowships. They paid me in fact.

    • Anon

      I have an MPP and I got so, so lucky. A wealthy relative paid my tuition. I took out about ~$10k in loans for living expenses for the two years.

    • Anonymous

      I took out a student loan. I did not have leftover undergraduate debt and in general our debt picture was pretty good (car payments and mortgage only). I took out in loans what some people pay for a fully-loaded Toyota Highlander, brand-new (37k). I got on the 25-year repayment schedule but from Day 1 paid a higher payment than I was required to – now it’s over double what I “have” to pay and I periodically pay extra payments when I have extra money. I’ve been paying for 5 years and I only have about 6 years left if I continue to ratchet up the payment slightly as my income goes up. Even the double payment is not a challenge for me to make every month.
      Here’s why it was worth it for me: prior to getting my master’s, I worked in marketing and was making $35k a year. Given what I was doing I had figured out that in my area, my compensation would top out at maybe $60k. I got my master’s, went into a different field and now make $90k per year with lots of continued opportunities for wage growth over time if I move into a specialty area or move into management. So it was worth it for me, but may not be worth it for everyone. It’s risk vs. reward. Some people hate debt. I hated working in marketing and looking forward to a dead-end career. For me the loan was worth every penny I’ve paid.

  6. Anonymous

    Does anyone have recommendations for men’s leather gloves? I’m pretty sure my husband’s coat is navy, so I’m assuming he needs brown ones? The only thing I have to go off of is that he likes the ones Michael Strahan wears on the NFL halftime shows… I have no idea what that means.

    • lawsuited

      He can wear also black gloves with a navy coat. My husband’s coat is navy with black buttons and I got him black leather hybrid gloves. I got them at a department store so I don’t remember the brand (maybe do a search for leather hybrid gloves?), but they’re basically leather on top and stretchy material on the bottom with the fingertips that allow you to operate your smart phone. He’s a very practical guy, and so probably would’ve thought cashmere-lined full leather gloves were too fancy, but likes these.

  7. Anon

    Weird question, but how many times do you sneeze a day? I feel like I sneeze all the time so I’ve been keeping track and it’s usually at least 10 times a day, even when I take allergy medicine. It’s driving me crazy.

    • busybee

      I sneeze a lot. Probably 15 times a day. I’ve sneezed four times so far and it’s currently 10:19am. It’s significantly worse during allergy season or when I’m around things I’m allergic to (cats, Christmas trees, my brand-new Jo Malone perfume) even though I take prescription allergy medication. I also sneeze whenever I go in sunlight, which apparently is some kind of reflex. It’s incredibly annoying and a little embarrassing because my sneezes are super loud.

    • nona

      I don’t sneeze enough to keep track. And my guess is when I do, it’s mostly environmental – dust in the air, weird perfume that tickle my nose wrong, etc.

    • No sneezes here

      I noticed the other, I never sneeze in public. I don’t have allergies and during colds I am very good at keeping my nose moisturized with glycerin sprays, saline sprays and all that.
      On the other hand, we have a sneezer a couple desks away and he goes 4-5 times each time about 3 times per day. We laugh a bit as it is a bro culture and we laugh at everything but honestly no one minds. We are good at not going to work sick (as in knowingly contagious).

    • Cat

      Most days zero to 1 time. Allergy season maybe 3-4 times. Otherwise incidentally based on dust (cleaning, raking leaves, etc).

  8. Speaking of online dating...

    My mom is jumping into they fray, and she’s very naive about how the world works. VERY. My siblings and I think it’s great that she’s getting back out there and we hope she finds someone who will make her happy. But her first fellow out of the gates seems off. He’s 10 years younger, incredibly attractive for both his stated age and stated occupation, and they’ve never spoken on the phone. This is because he’s supposedly been deployed overseas for the last however many months, but handily, he’s returning home soon and just so happens to live in mom’s area! And he deleted his profile from the dating site just a few weeks after they started emailing because “he found what he was looking for”. Their first “date” was going to be her picking him up from the military base and driving him home. We finally convinced her that this was a bad idea, that they should at least talk on the phone for a few days first and then meet in a public place. Normally my mom is incredibly suspicious and judgmental, but for some reason, not about this guy. She’s a very religious conservative, and suddenly she’s willing to take an hour-long drive with a stranger who is divorced and has tons of tattoos (she is also divorced but literally insists that she’s not actually divorced because of my dad’s behavior, and for the entirety of my life she’s commented on how tattoos are “defacing God’s temple”). In short, we think something is wrong.

    How do you vet this kind of thing? We’re all out of state, and we all married pretty young, so we’ve never actually done online dating ourselves. But there’s so many red flags on just normal behavior (and from her, abnormal behavior) that we feel like we need to do something. Tips other than just warning her to be cautious and take it slow and the general safety tips of meeting strangers on the internet?

    • Anon

      Have you introduced her to the concept of cat fishing? Honestly a few episodes of the show may do her some good. Have they ever spoken on video so she can as least see that he is who he says he is? Even in deployment I’ve been able to video chat and talk to relatives on the phone. If he’s online, he can take a phone call. This is so so weird. Even if he’s real, it definitely seems like a “take an old woman for a ride and get a bunch of money” situation at best.

    • Anonymous

      I think you can help her make a dating plan and have a dating “buddy” – i.e. you or your siblings. Someone should always know where she is and who she’s with – this is just common sense when you’re getting into online dating. She should call one of you as soon as she gets home from the date.

      I wouldn’t be that concerned about the tattoos and divorce. I WOULD be concerned that he’s possibly a scammer. Make sure mom knows not to give him money and not to pay for anything for him – like, don’t give out your cc to a “cab company” that will get him to the date.

      • Speaking of online dating...

        I gave her a bunch of tips that included telling a friend where she was going, having a friend call her an hour into the date, setting an alarm that pops up with “hey can you give me a call?” and calling a friend when she’s leaving the meeting place and when she arrives home. If things are going well, she can just silence the alarm/ignore the call/confirm it’s fine, but if she wants to leave, it gives her an excuse to bow out. We really feel like the buddy should be someone who lives in her area and who’s close to her age. I really not inclined to start meddling in my mom’s dating life beyond making sure she’s taking the reasonable safety steps that a normal adult should know to take. My mom has a long history of oversharing, expecting us to overshare, and forcing intimacy, so opening that door by becoming her buddy in this thing is not a wise choice for my own (or my siblings’) mental health. This is the other reason we’re so confused about why this guy is sticking around. It just seems unlikely that the first guy she starts talking to is a-ok with all the invasive personal questions she probably asked him, particularly regarding his faith and proving that he lives up to her impossibly-high standard of being a “true” Christian.

        We confirmed that she hasn’t given him any money and told her not to give him any money, but the tip about not giving out her CC number to pay for a ride or some such item is a good additional tip!

    • Shanananana

      okay, step one, go watch a few episodes of Catfish. No but really. That said, get the pictures, dump them into google image search and see if you can find them online, if he is using someone elses’s photos, you can often find the other name attached to them. Same things with his phone # and email address. Dump them into google too. Honestly I do this with most people I meet online before I meet them in person.

      • Speaking of online dating...

        Oh. My. Gosh. The “overly long personal messages early in correspondence” rings true. As does the “can’t talk on the phone”. Maybe I can just send these links to my mom directly with a reminder to never give him money in any way, shape, or form. We all knew it was weird, but seeing the pattern literally laid out in multiple articles, down to the phrasing, confirms that this is an urgent thing to address head-on, not a nice reminder to be safe.

        • Um yeah

          There are a TON of Dr. Phil episodes on this. I used to watch Dr. Phil on YouTube while I outlined for law school exams. As soon as you said deployed, my first thought was, “This is a scam.” Your biggest worry is not her having a “safety buddy” when she goes to see him, but how she reacts when the day she makes that hour long drive he calls her to tell her he is “trapped” in X country and needs X amount of money to free him and his money and then he will pay her back. This is like literally word-by-work what happens every time.

    • Anon

      I wish you could get the guy’s supposed military unit. I’m a veteran and civilians are generally incapable of getting the nuances of giving a military unit name correctly (the abbreviations, the numbers, the order of those things). That alone would be enough to tell if this is a scam. And if “it’s classified?” 99.99% a scam. Operators (what you call spec ops people) aren’t hanging out in the middle east on dating sites – they’re in for a couple months, doing Deeds, and going home.

      • Speaking of online dating...

        I asked a friend who just got out and is currently active reserves to see if they could find him, and no luck with first name, last name, branch, and birthday. They said that it’s also weird that this person isn’t a pretty well-ranked officer if they’ve been in for 20+ years. And asking someone to pick you up from the base right after deployment is weird. You’re not in the right headspace to get to know someone, and if he’s really as respectable and nice as my mom says, he shouldn’t be asking something of her as their very first voice/IRL interaction.

        • Anon

          The rank and not being able to be found in the directory are both big red flags.

          If you can, gently present all the information to your mom and then let her think on it for a while. Her pride will surely sting at being catfished :/

        • Calico

          This sounds like Dirty John to me. He pursued an older woman online because he was getting out of jail and had nowhere to live. Check out the podcast or the LA Times articles.

          • Belle

            This, x 1000.
            And tons of tattoos says “prison” to me, not “military officer”.

    • CostAccountant

      100% definitely a scammer. Picture of a 40 plus year old guy is very attractive & the supposed age and picture don’t match. Conveniently out of the country but PLANS to come to your mother’s area. He never will. Saftey is not an issue. He wants her money, credit card, banking information. And that’s it. This is VERY common scam, though usually the occupation is “engineer”

    • Anonymous

      This is a long shot but since you mentioned tattoos… I speak a language that is very popular to get tattoos in and I see this on message boards all the time… The military does not allow “offensive” tattoos (in any language) which is why I see photos through my work with the message “what does this mean?” Anyway, if this guy has either offensive tattoos or tattoos on his hands or wrists.. he is probably not military and you can prove it through his photos. I know it is a long shot but maybe it will help you.

    • Anonanon

      I work in a public facing banking job and I have seen this on multiple occasions. He is a scammer! No questions about it. He either wants her bank account information or most likely will ask her to wire him money. She needs to cease contact immediately. He will try to convince her otherwise and she needs to stand her ground.

    • Speaking of online dating...

      Thanks for all the replies and tips, disconcerting as it is to confirm that we’re right. I’ll share the links and info with my mom.

  9. Horse Crazy

    Bay Area friends – what’s your favorite restaurant in downtown San Jose for dinner? Not looking for anything crazy spendy, but definitely something nice.

    • Anon

      I’m not sure what you mean by nice, but Los Cubanos has good Cuban food. Atmosphere isn’t super fancy though.

    • anon

      Firehouse No. 1 is a fun gastropub.
      If you are willing to go to Willow Glen, the Table and Black Sheep Brasserie are both really nice.

  10. Cleaning Service Tip

    It’s my first year with a cleaning service. What should I tip them for the Holidays?

    • Anon

      If I’ve used them the whole year, I leave the value of a visit. For example, I pay $135 biweekly and leave $100 in cash plus a large tin of chocolate covered pecans. They started in November six years ago. That year I left a $50 bill in a card.

    • BB

      What do you do if it’s a service but always a different crew? Last year, I just gave a double tip to the crew that came closest to the holidays.

  11. anon

    I am not a fun person, and I don’t have much fun. I’d like to have more fun, but I’m generally super serious, a planner, and I work a lot (which I enjoy). I’m also pretty introverted and my hobbies involve not-“fun” things like working out and reading. What do you all do to have more fun, and how can I start without compromising work?

    • Anonymous

      What do you think is fun? I have fun reading, getting dinner with friends, baking, and taking dance classes. Lots of people find working out and reading fun!

      • emeralds

        Yeah, what? I love working out and reading. They’re both super-fun if that’s what you’re into!

        Some ways to jazz them both up: try out a new workout class, meet a friend for a run or yoga, go to a nice coffee shop or library instead of reading at home on the weekends, read in a park if the weather permits, join a book club.

      • anon OP

        Oh they’re plenty fun and I enjoy them. I still feel like there’s an element of enjoyment that’s missing from my life. I just need more happy and enjoyment in my life. I don’t know how to get it.

        • Shananana

          Each year I try to make myself try a few new things or go a few places I think I might enjoy. Some years its more successful than others, but this is how I found out that getting up early and going to the zoo early on a weekend to walk around before the families get there makes me really happy. As does taking my book and blanket to a park and getting vitamin D with my reading habit. And going and wandering giant antique stores and markets. One year I took a pottery class and realized while the class part could be annoying, the working alone on throwing things on a wheel part was really meditative and fun for me. These are all still fairly introverted activities, but break me out of my rut and I find a lot of enjoyment in them. So maybe sit and think through a list of what are a few things that I might enjoy and make a plan to try them. I think a lot of it for me at least is not letting myself get stuck in a I work, go to the gym, eat, read, sleep, repeat. When I get into those ruts is where I start to feel un fun and boring.

        • Anon

          I think you’ll find a few kindred spirits checking in on this. My idea of fun is probably different than many/most others’ but I’m good with that. I’ve tried lots of the things folks are ‘supposed’ to find fun with no preconceived notions and they’re just my idea of a good time. To each their own. Also, if it matters from an internet stranger, you sound like lots of fun.

      • Hildy

        +1 I think reading and working out are very fun. If you want to add a social component, maybe join a book club, running club or group exercise clas for commodore. Also, the fact that book clubs and workout clubs exist should prove to you that people find these things fun. Fun looks different to different people. If you feel like you’re lacking the type of fun that you see on MTV Spring Break (is that still a thing?), by all means go seek that out. But you shouldn’t feel like you have to start doing tequila shots and shouting “woo” if your idea of fun more closely aligns with curling up with a good book.

    • anon

      This is an adorable question and makes me want to be your friend. And I’m a fun person. :)

    • Anon

      Is there a reason you’re fighting your own personality? Did someone tell you you aren’t fun? Or are you actually bored? There is nothing wrong with being a serious person and doing things that serious people consider fun, like reading and working out. If you are actually bored, I’d tell you to just dive deeper into the things you already like – you’ll be miserable trying to “be fun” with things you don’t actually like. If you like reading, join a book club to be more social or join a reading challenge. If you like to work out, join a running club or competition (ex. crossfit competition, half marathon, tough mudder). Adding a social component to stuff you already like seems to be the path of least resistance here.

      • Anonymous

        I agree with the idea of adding a social component to stuff you already like.

        My parents are from two different cultures, and my partner’s parents are as well. Of these four cultural traditions, it’s really only the white middle class Americans who seem to have a concept of “fun” for adults. I like to remind myself of this when I’m surrounded (as often) by white middle class Americans who seem to genuinely enjoy fun: it’s not a universal imperative, it’s just a cultural tradition that I don’t relate to.

      • Small Firm IP Litigator

        Yeah, pretty much this. I went through these precise feelings a few years ago – basically, why don’t I like to go out and do all the things that people my age typically do (go out to eat all the time, boozy brunch, drinks, etc.)? Why don’t I get together with friends all the time? I interpreted my own preference of spending time with my husband, and doing solitary activities like working out, reading, lounging by the pool, surfing, baking, cooking, canning, and gardening as making me boring, uninteresting, and not fun. That’s obviously nuts.

        I don’t think you necessarily need to add a social component to the things you enjoy. One thing I like about working out is the lack of human interaction. I am an introvert, but am for some reason a litigator and work with extroverts all day. They are nice people, and some of my closer friends, but it still makes me really tired and I welcome alone time. It’s OK if you feel that way too.

    • Anon

      I am a lot like you, and I enjoy researching, planning, and running destination half marathons (and I often go by myself or with one close friend).

    • anon

      What if you did a “fun” workout– something like belly dance class or zumba or something like that?

    • Unicorn?

      This a great question! Do you remember having fun as a kid? What was fun to you then? For me, it was reading fiction, so I try to alternate between reading more serious books with reading fun and engaging fiction. I also find growing things to be really fun, so I keep a couple of plants in my office and have a garden at home.

      And here’s something important that I’ve learned over the years – it’s fun to lean into your hobbies in different ways. My hobbies are reading and gardening, so what this looks like for me is that I might check blogs or websites on these topics while I’m at work, listen to podcasts about them on my commute, and I keep a book journal and a garden journal to track what I read and what I grow. I find this makes these hobbies a richer (and more fun) experience.

    • AnotherAnon

      Could you plan a vacation or weekend trip? And maybe invite a friend who would be a good travel buddy, but doesn’t like planning. TBH, reading and working out are basically my two favorite hobbies (is drinking a hobby? j/k), but DH loves traveling and hates planning – I enjoy the planning part of a trip almost as much as a trip itself. Also +1 to all the others on here who have said you sound fun. Don’t second guess yourself – if you want to try new things then great, but if YOU feel like you’re at fun capacity working out and reading then keep on rockin in the free world.

    • What

      What? Working out is super fun! I am obviously as biased as you are on this, but there is nothing wrong with your hobbies not being considered “fun” by others. If you’re just basing it off what others are doing and thinking “Gosh, I don’t do X,” then that’s not a good metric.

      Are you happy? What do you like to do? What brings you joy?

      I love hanging out with my dog, working out/training for a particular sport, reading (so much!), Christmas activities, volunteering in my community, doing Jr. League, doing stuff with my church, hanging out with my friends. If I compared my list with that of my dearest friends, it would look a little “lame/tame.” I don’t like to drink/go out to bars, I don’t take crazy vacations because I work a lot (I enjoy my job) and would much rather have a slow weekend in town or somewhere near my town, and I wake up “ungodly” early to train, so I go to bed early. I like to read books about self-help and listen to all sorts of podcasts. None of it is wrong, it’s just different. Consider things you like and things that overlap with that, or just try something entirely new. That’s how you find hobbies. But don’t measure them by some arbitrary metric. The only person who decides what is fun for you is you.

    • Candidate

      What kind of working out do you do? Could you join a group exercise class, or a running club, or switch up what kind of exercise? I started taking circus lessons (partner acrobatics) sporadically this year, and it is SO FUN and also athletic. And, if you do partner acro, you have to meet new people.

      Do you like live performances? See if there are community theater or concert groups in your area, or go to a professional show. You can go alone (I almost always do, my husband is not a theater fan and I am) which I still think is fun, and doesn’t drain my introvert self like a party would, because I don’t have to do the talking. Or, you could go to see comedy or improv?

    • anon

      Hey, I’m a lot like you, and I still think I have fun! My idea of fun is just different than the super extroverted ideal. I do understand that it’s easy to get isolated in solo hobbies. One of my goals for 2019 is to regularly commit to a group fitness class, which I tend to avoid. But, I think it would be good for me to get pushed by others and maybe meet people.

      I also really recommend low-key fun, like inviting 2-4 friends over to my house to chat, drink wine, and have a movie on in the background. I still get my social fix, we laugh a lot, and I feel more fun, even though it’s not that different from how I’d normally spend an evening.

    • Anon

      Fun means different things. My friend thinks 6am barre class is fun and I think she’s insane.

      I get a lot of joy from spending time with friends. We don’t do crazy things (anymore) because we’re all in our thirties and tired, but spending time with them is still fun for me.

    • Coach Laura

      You could try new workout things like indoor rock climbing, kayaking lessons, crossfit, raising money and doing charity fun-runs, group bicycle rides. All of these have an element of meeting people and perhaps finding new ways to have fun.

    • Anon

      Go read the blog The Happy Talent. I found it a few years ago and have loved some of the advice on being more playful and fun in adulthood.

  12. AMB

    How many levels up your chain do you give Christmas cards? I usually do my direct and Grandboss but I am still getting to know Grandboss and overall culture of my new department. Card is a happy holiday message with pictures of me and boyfriend and our animals on the back.

    • Anon

      Not at all? I don’t think Christmas cards are appropriate to people you work with in your office – they see you everyday it’s overly personal and unnecessary. Christmas cards don’t go to your boss, they go to friends, family, clients if that’s normal in your field, and maybe coworkers you work closely with in a far office (and in that case, it’s a text Happy Holidays card, not a personal one with a picture of you and your boyfriend on it). Idk I’d think it was super weird to get a holiday card from someone I manage. What do they do walk by your office with the card you dropped off like “um…thanks”.

      • anon

        Um, they, like, receive the card in the mail along with a million other cards? It’s a know your office thing. Everyone attorney in my office who does holiday cards sends them to the other attys (20 atty firm). Stop being a grinch.

        • anon

          Yeah, that was a weird response. You don’t say anything when you receive a card. I receive them from all sorts of people, bosses and subordinates.

      • Anonymous

        I think this is a know your office thing. At my first firm, everyone sent each other personal holiday cards – to their home. I haven’t seen that done in other firms though.

        I think if you’re going to send personal cards they should be sent to a home address, though. If you have a company directory of everyone’s home addresses then feel free to send! If you don’t know someone’s home address/don’t feel comfortable asking then you probably shouldn’t send them personal correspondence.

    • AnotherAnon

      Interested to hear other responses. I don’t send cards to current colleagues or my boss. Honestly it hadn’t even occurred to me to do that – Christmas cards are for friends and family. I do send cards to former colleagues who I am friends with IRL.

    • Suburban

      This is a thing at my office. Your work friends get cards at work and they usually stay there (on the pin board or cubicle). I secretly think everyone does this because it’s a nice reminder of your co-worker’s spouse’s and kid’s names and relative ages. For coworkers I socialize with,I mail them to their houses. I’ll probably hand deliver one to my boss’s office next week.

      • AMB

        Thanks all for the thoughtful responses – I think I will do some asking around to get a sense of how this office handles things.

    • cbackson

      Law firm, so it’s slightly different, but when I was an associate I sent them to the associates in my PG plus those I was friends with, as well as the partners I worked with the most.

      Now as a partner I send them to all associates and partners in my PG. It’s definitely a thing at my firm.

    • Not my office, but maybe yours

      I don’t give holiday cards to bosses, subordinates, or co-workers. It would feel odd for me to send them the card we did this year, which has a bunch of photos of my husband and kids. I would also find it odd if my subordinates gave me one. Honestly, I want them to be happy at work, and wouldn’t object of course if giving me a card makes them happy, but their private life is their own and their kids/dogs/trip to Paris is great! looks like fun! (but not my business!). And I would hate it if one employee giving me a card starts any kind of arms race, as if others were then somehow expected to do the same. It’s not that I don’t care about them – and I’m happy to commiserate if they talk to me about sick cats and middle school homework or whatever – but people deserve privacy in the workplace (especially from their supervisors) and I won’t bring it up.

    • lawsuited

      Since I started doing family photo cards, I only send them to my peers at work who are also friends. I give generic cards to other staff, or I just write a thank you message in the gift card holder.

  13. Humidifier

    So I set up a humidifier in my office earlier this week. It was a spare one that had been in storage at home. I cleaned it beforehand by filling it with white vinegar and letting it soak for about an hour and then scrubbing as much as I could. I used it one day and then was traveling until today. I walked into my office and it smells TERRIBLE, I assume due to the humidifier. Not to be gross, but the smell reminded me of when I a yeast infection or something going on down there. Definitely time for a new humidifier? Anything else I can do to get rid of the smell, and prevent it in the future?

    • Anon

      I think you overdid it with the vinegar. They generally recommend putting a few tbsp of vinegar diluted with water in the humidifier to clean it. I’ve never soaked mine. I generally just rinse it through, and I’m done.

      • Mpls

        I think it’s fine to have put straight vinegar in, but it’s meant to clean off mineral deposits (vs sanitizing), so if you’ve got a mold/growth issue, you may need to follow up with diluted bleach (read the instructions for your particular model).

  14. ATL rette

    I posted this last night in response to a thread but wanted to repost to get more eyes:

    Can we please stop with the idea that admins/secretaries are silly gossipy women who wear silly accessories? It’s both incredibly demeaning and untrue. Admins already don’t get a ton of respect, both in the workplace and here on this board, so let’s not cut down people more. We’re just trying to work and earn a living, same as you fancy lawyers.

    • Anonymous

      Can you please come work in my office? I am neither fancy nor a lawyer. Every single admin in my office is silly and gossipy, including the men and the women who do not wear silly accessories. I would love to have an admin who actually does his or her job competently.

      • Duckles

        And do it without me having to interrupt a personal call, after which you do not act aggrieved I’ve asked you to do your job.

    • Anon

      Um are you ranting about where you work or saying that that is a general view because, at least from the way people on this site talk about admins, I don’t find to be true. Maybe if you work with a bunch of guys whose reflection on admins has a gendered bias it’s reasonable to be frustrated, but the women here largely love good admins and understand they should be treated as the valuable team member that they are. If that happens where you work, I’m sorry that sucks – but don’t generalize across all female lawyers in your frustration.

      Also, try not to confuse office administrators with administrative assistants in general – office admins often have as part of their duties to organize certain social events and promote a certain office culture – so yeah they often are cheery and where holiday themed items as part of their job to promote collegiality.

    • Cat

      You’re right, but in my office, it is 1000% more likely that anyone wearing themed accessories is, in fact, an admin. So I do associate that look more with support staff as opposed to attorneys. It doesn’t mean I don’t respect them as people, OR respect the work of the admins that take ownership and do a good job. It means if, like yesterday’s OP, I want my appearance to be consistent with my role in the organization / convey that message to strangers at a work party, I would not choose obvious “holiday” earrings.

      • C

        Huh. In my non-law office, it’s almost the exact opposite- admins and lower level staff tend to dress in a scrupulously professional way, while higher level staff are much more free with their sartorial choices. Example- our Christmas party is later today and we were told to “dress festively.” My great-grandboss is wearing a light-up Grinch sweatshirt and one of her peers is wearing what can only be described as a Mrs. Claus dress. Meanwhile most of the admins are wearing things like a red sweater with a dark green pencil skirt, or a white blouse with a red scarf.
        I’m mid-level staff and I’m wearing a skirt with a little bit of shimmer and a rather tame fun sweater (it has a simple reindeer sinhouette) but I did put on sparkly snowflake earrings.

        • Anon

          Law is its own thing. I came from a different industry to work as a subject matter expert (non-attorney) at a law firm and it is the weirdest, most classist, rigidly hierarchical place I have ever worked in my entire life. The attorneys would rather die than be associated with the secretaries, paralegals, or anyone “beneath” them. Its my least favorite thing about working here and boggles my mind on a continual basis. The assistants are the ones in frosty the snowman sweaters, the paralegals in festive separates, and the attorneys in suits. Some of the young male attorneys might wear a ridiculous plaid suit to our holiday party, but it’s an Outrageous-On-Purpose look.

          • Anonymous

            As a young lawyer who’s in her first six months at a place big enough to have both staff and attorneys, I really wanted to make friends with the staff at first because they seemed so much more relaxed and friendly people, but it seems like there is this rigid divide. Staff socialize with staff, attorneys socialize, if at all, with each other. This results in me just not socializing period.

    • Anon

      I work at a small firm that broke off from a large firm that required the attorneys to wear suits every day and the staff to be similarly dressed. New firm has no dress code. The attorneys generally all dress very professionally and are either in sharp business casual or suits depending on the day. One assistant wears jorts, flip flops with socks, and hoodies. Another wears jerseys from the local hockey team and Ugg boots. It’s not great.

  15. Ella

    Hi – my husband wants a made in the usa flannel shirt for weekends for Christmas. He tends to like more niche stylish brands than things like LL Bean (e.g. brands that have one or two flagship stores in NY, LA or San Fran). I’m at a loss. Any suggestions?

  16. help decode this dress code

    The invitation requests “chic, sexy attire with your favorite dancing shoes.”

    Help me translate that into a Southern January for a women-only celebration… I assume they will wear party dresses with skimpy sandals, but it seems…cold?

    I apparently also need help finding dressy shoes I can dance in without wanting to rip them off my feet, so if you have recommendations…

    • Anon

      How Southern? In the bottom of the gulf states, it might be 55 degrees in January. Either way, I read it as two separate things “chic attire” and “dancing shoes”, not asking for chic sexy shoes you can dance in. I’d go for comfortable heels and think about the dress separately.

    • Anon

      I take this to mean form-fitting clothes worn with heels. I’d probably wear a wrap dress or a black column of fitted pants and top with sparkly heels. Lots would fit the bill as long as it steers away from Cristimas sweaters and comfort shoes.

    • LSC

      These kind of attire instructions make me nuts! But in Texas, this would mean cowboy boots and a cute dress.

    • Anon

      Party dress and comfortable shoes. If you want a heel, look for something with a strap.

    • Anon

      Skimpy sandals is not at all what I would pick as “dancing shoes” but to each her own, I guess.

  17. Anon

    This sweater seems like it would make the average person look bloated – it’s so much material on the abdomen. It’s cute but I’d have to pass for the bloating reason

    • Owl Lover

      I agree. Me and my “is she pregnant?” belly need to stay far away from those kinds of shapes.

    • Anonymous

      I look bloated anyway (I asked about fibroids, but the doctor shrugged), so I thought maybe this style would make it look like it’s the shirt and not me? Oh well.

      • Anon

        I hope you can push back a little bit on your doctor’s indifference! Bloating can be a sign of some serious health problems, especially if it’s come on rather suddenly.

  18. Cold weather running tights

    What are your favorite cold weather (as in 15-20 degrees) running tights?

    • Runner

      I have heard great things about the Craft Urban running tights. They have wind panels outside and brushed fleece inside. I have run in the Asics Thermopolis tights and really like them, but I haven’t run in 15 degree weather yet. They have a brushed fleece lining and are a snug fit on the leg. There are no zippers at the ankle. I will be trying the Craft tights and/or the Brooks Threshhold tights next.

    • Winter running!

      Just got the Athleta Primaloft Alpine Valley Tights from Athleta – fleece lined and so cozy. Been running in them and they’re great!

  19. Anonymous

    If you’ve been laid off from a job you loved, did you get to a point where you just forgot/didn’t care? Laid off 6 years ago today, and thought about it the minute I woke up today. I vividly remember the meeting, being stunned and going and hiding out in a coffee shop and there hearing about sandy hook.

    Don’t get me wrong, life has moved on. It took a LONG time to find a job (over a year) but I did and I don’t love it but it pays well, allowed me to move cities etc. But I kind of still think about what I had. Anyone else feel this way?

    • Vicky Austin

      I don’t think it’s unusual for you to remember it vividly (a) on the anniversary (b) which also happens to be the anniversary of a very memorable and traumatic event for the country. A day like that will stick in your memory for a long time.

    • Happens....

      Hi, I was laid off about 15 years ago and occasionally still have a negative memory flash in my mind from that day….there is a real impact from layoffs that may be considered PTSD, not sure as I’m no expert but it still happens to this day every so often. I also left a position 10 years ago for another job which has been very good and successful, and I find that I still miss that old job. I examined why I miss that job so much and determined that certain aspects, the territory I was selling, autonomy I had and respect from leaders and peers. Jobs have real impact on our emotional and mental health…

    • Anon

      This is not exactly the same, but I have an old relationship that ended 6 or 7 years ago that I still think about almost daily. Like you, I was stunned, and like you, I have moved on (am happily married), but I still think about it a lot.

      I wonder if you remember so vividly because it is tied to the day of Sandy Hook. From what you’ve written I feel like the day itself is a vivid memory for you because of the additional shock from Sandy Hook. I can’t tell from your post if you are still upset about the old job, or if you just think about it a lot. If you’re upset, I’d think about maybe finding a counselor to talk with about this, to help you move past that. But if it just comes to mind a lot, and you’re not necessarily upset, I think this is not that worrisome– just something you will think of from time to time.

    • Senior Attorney

      Not a layoff, but I still thing about The Big Job That Got Away. I’ve come to be grateful for the life I ended up with, but it still stings and I think it always will.

    • Anonymous

      I do, and I think it’s because I haven’t found an equal or better job (I’m in my second job after lay-off). If I had, I’d feel more flippant. Even now it pains me to see former coworkers.

  20. Anonymous

    Can I get some ideas for an easy holiday party side dish? I have a family party this weekend and need to bring something. The meals are usually pretty meat/carb heavy, so I try to bring something fresh or light that involves vegetables. A salad is the obvious answer, but I’m pretty bored with my usuals. I’d love to do a big sheet pan of roasted vegetables, but there’s usually a pretty big delay between when people arrive and when they eat and I won’t have access to an oven once I leave the house. Any ideas? I am exhausted and would love something easy.

    • Em

      I am bringing a salad to my family’s Christmas Eve. In case it isn’t too close to your usual, it is just arugula with roasted sweet potatoes. The dressing is equal parts olive oil and white wine vinegar, some chopped garlic, salt and pepper, a little mayo, and a little Dijon mustard. My husband doesn’t eat many vegetables (definitely no leafy greens) and even he loved it.

    • Anonymous

      Could you make a salad with roasted vegetables? Some sort of roasted broccoli salad?

    • NOLA

      This salad is really yummy and looks Christmas-y because it’s green with red and has cranberries. I got the recipe from a boyfriend’s mother forever ago, but it’s become a staple for my family during the holidays.

      Holiday Harvest Salad

      1 cup coarsely chopped cranberries
      2 Tablespoons sugar
      2 Granny Smith apples, cored and thinly sliced
      3 quarts mixed greens
      1 1/2 cups pitted dates, cut into slivers
      2/3 cup chopped toasted walnuts
      black pepper
      Honey-Lime Dressing (below)
      Toss cranberries with sugar in a small bowl; let sit 15 minutes. Toss apples with 1/4 cup dressing in another small bowl. Fill a large salad bowl with greens. Fan apple slices around edge of bowl. Toss together cranberries, dates and walnuts, mound in center of bowl. Refrigerate salad until ready to serve. Season with pepper and drizzle with remaining dressing.

      Dressing
      1/2 cup olive oil
      2 Tablespoons lime juice
      2 teaspoons honey
      1 1/2 teaspoons Dijon mustard
      1/4 teaspoon salt
      1/8 teaspoon black pepper

  21. farty cubicle mate

    My cublicle mate has recently decided to be a vegetarian and well, the farting is OUT OF CONTROL. It is very smelly. Other than that she’s nice and we get along well enough. Not super close enough to just make a kind of joke about it…

    Can some wise person here give me a script? Do I escalate to HR? I am at my wit’s end here. Please help me!

    • chocolate chip

      If it were me, I’d play dumb about the suspected source of the smell and just comment generally on how weird and gross the office smells lately. I’d even brainstorm, “gosh, I can’t imagine what’s causing that weird smell, do you think we should call Facilities so they can see if something is wrong with the air vents?” That’d be my tactic to not embarrass her while still hopefully convincing her to try some Beano.

    • Anon

      There are all sorts of medical conditions that cause excessive gas and inability to control it, so no you don’t say anything. Be kind.

      • Anonymous

        I have such a medical condition. I do everything I can to be away from people when it happens but sometimes that is simply not possible. It’s very very embarrassing and I wish it would go away but it won’t. Please be kind.

        If it’s simply a matter of her becoming vegetarian, her body will adjust soon enough and this problem should go away.

    • LAnon

      Could you get a small, portable fan to at least help the air circulate more? You probably don’t need to give an explanation, but if pressed for one and you don’t want to tell the truth, you can say that you have one in your home office and realized you find it pleasant to have on.

    • Anon

      Okay, what do you think you’re going to accomplish with some kind of script? You have to deal with it. It’s the price of existing in a society with other human beings.

    • Anonymous

      I feel like I’ve seen something similar asked on Ask A Manager – you might browse that site for some ideas.

    • Worry about yourself

      I cut way back on my meat intake this summer, and that meant quinoa, beans (especially chickpeas) and the occasional tofu. I was . . . not proud of those farts, but my body adjusted after a month or so and the gas subsided. She probably feels bad about it and is hoping the smell will dissipate a fair amount before it gets to you. There are medicines she could take to help though – digestive enzymes like Beano for before meals, and charcoal caplets to help with the smell afterwards. You could politely tell her you’ve noticed a lot of gas coming from her cubicle, and ask if she could try to take something to manage it. Or you say nothing, but you definitely don’t go to HR. She’s not stinking up the place on purpose, after all!

  22. AnotherAnon

    My LO (21 m/o now) has eczema so we limit baths to 3 days per week. He is getting to where he HATES baths, and showers (sometimes he pees through his nighttime diaper so DH will rinse him in the shower with him). He screams and cries the entire time. He takes a while to calm down after, which is really unusual for him. His “tantrums” are normally about 10 seconds and then it’s over. I don’t think he’s protesting out of pain – I think he just hates it. Do you have any suggestions? I really don’t want to bathe him daily because it’s so hard on his little skin but I guess I could try that. We’re not due back to the pedi til the end of Feb but I guess I could message her about it too. Appreciate any advice!

    • Anonymous

      I don’t know anything about children, but water is just awful for my eczema.

        • anon

          Not Anon at 12:50 but the standard advice is to bathe less often. I have mild eczema and still prefer to use only foaming hand soap (because there is less soap and it is therefore less drying) and always put hand lotion on after washing my hands. Every. Time. I also put lotion on all over every time I shower, even when the humidity is out of control and it’s 100 degrees outside. I would schedule a ped appointment to get on top of the eczema to the extent possible. I know a lot of parents don’t want to jump to the steriods but it is the only thing that helps sometimes. Also, you can swath him down with thick plain lotion or ointment multiple times a day. The more moisturized he is the more comfortable he will be in his skin.

    • LAnon

      I hated showers as a child – I really didn’t like the feeling of water hitting me in the face or on my head. (My mother still recalls how I would “shower” as a kid and come out with my face and hair completely dry. We moved into a house that had a handheld showerhead in the bathroom – I loved it! I liked having more control over the water and not just feeling sprayed in the face. Your LO is too small to control it himself but maybe washing him with a handheld one when he needs a rinse will be more pleasant for him than regular showers or baths.

    • Wink

      I don’t want to distress you, but when my eczema was in full breakout, getting into a bath or shower was total agony for me (AND temporarily made the itching worse) for at least the first few minutes. When my daughter was a newborn, my hands were severely broken out and taking care of her was very difficult. I started using Babyganics wipes on her and found they were the gentlest on my own hands. I also started using their foaming hand sanitizer for myself because it has no alcohol to burn me. Possibly trying some extremely gentle wipes like that as an alternative to bathing when possible could help the poor little guy? Also getting a neutral, thick lotion on as soon as possible after water exposure. Some eczema-specific lotions even caused stinging and burning for me, but a derm recommended Cutemol, which I get off Am*zon, and it was absolutely amazing (check with pediatrician, as always). Hugs – that stuff is rough enough as an adult, it pulls at my heart for the babies.

    • Anonymous

      We only bath toddlers 1-2 x a week and our doctor has been fine with that. Their skin has thanked us. Seriously, pee is sterile, no need to shower the kid if he wets through his diaper! Maybe wipe him down with a wipe if you want.

      • Anon

        Yeah, same. We bathe 2x week if we’re signed up for pool, but otherwise it’s once a week. No more peeling skin (I’m sure the pool wasn’t helping here). And no bubbles or soap of any kind in the bath. Hair gets a little spray conditioner after a water wash. Pee gets wiped down with a moist last night’s tee shirt (yeah, we’re that kinda family). But all the soap and the daily bathing was horrible for my kid’s skin and it’s amazing the difference since doing so much less work.

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