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Cb
Anyone have a good vegan vanilla cake recipe?
Smitten Kitchen olive oil chocolate cake is my go to, but I think it’s a bit rich for little kids. Need something I can ice and add decorations.
Kiddo’s 6th birthday is over the summer, so I thought I’d make a few versions and taste test over the next few months. It’s Viking themed, so I guess between the cake, we’re lighting boats on fire and robbing the neighbours?
Anon
https://minimalistbaker.com/1-bowl-vegan-gluten-free-vanilla-cake/comment-page-4/
Anon
There is decent boxed gluten free cake mix.
Anon
Sorry, you said vegan…I’m not awake yet clearly.
Anonymous
Smitten Kitchen’s confetti cake is vegan and fun for kids, though I don’t know if sprinkles goes with the viking theme.
Anon
I love kid theme parties. I would give everyone a bunch of cardboard and fabric and have them build a long boat (team activity), or a bunch of cardboard circles and have them make their own shields (individual activity).
You can buy Kubb sets and that’s a great outdoor game.
Cb
Ooh, I like a long boat build! I was thinking about getting one of those cardboard knives/cogs sets.
It’s How to train your dragon inspired, so I got some paper mache eggs in the easter section, and we can paint dragon eggs.
Anonymous
And have them do a shield wall as the team activity! I watch too many historical TV shows :-)
Anonymous
I’d stick with the chocolate cake. I find vegan vanilla is never as good as vegan chocolate.
Bake a cake in a bread pan, crumb coat, freeze, carve the sides to give it a boat shape. Straw for mast, fruit -roll up for sail, Lego or Playmobil viking figures on the boat. I like Lego because their hands can hold a birthday candle.
Anon
This is brilliant.
Anon
I can’t believe I didn’t know this about mini figures.
CapHillAnon
Same! Incorporating into my next birthday cake effort.
Anonymous
Lego figures are the solution to all my cake and cupcake decoration issues – they have like every theme possible. They can also hold pretzel sticks to add to a ‘fire’ on a camping themed cake.
GCA
Earthly Provisions (Megan Calipari, trained pastry chef) is also pretty reliable: https://earthly-provisions.com/vegan-funfetti-cake/
Anon
Smitten Kitchen’s “Plush confetti cupcakes” are vegan.
Ribena
Also from Smitten Kitchen – the vegan funfetti cake recipe she published at the end of Jan/start of Feb 2021. It’s written as cupcakes but I made it as a layer cake for my birthday cake that year and it worked really well. I probably have a photo somewhere – will dig it out.
Re the Viking theme you could also make biscuit campfires (if vegan Twiglets or similar exist?) – you construct a little pyramid of Twiglets or chocolate fingers on a Digestive biscuit or Rich Tea (US: roughly analogous to a Graham cracker?), put a marshmallow in between, and drizzle red and yellow runny icing over the top. I’m not explaining it particularly well, but we used to make them at Brownies/Guides
Anon
https://www.yummytoddlerfood.com/easy-vanilla-cake-vegan/
Cb
Oh wow, you went all in! These are all great ideas! My mom is here to help so I’m looking forward to being a bit more creative.
Curious
No cake suggestions, but this cracked me up:) Thank you!
Anonymous
Recommendations for a soft t shirt I can wear when WFH on Zoom but also pump/nurse in? I have tried Old Navy, Target, and J Crew over my two kids and they all have shrunk tremendously. Which doesn’t help because I prefer for there to be some extra fabric so I’m not exposing my belly as much. This isn’t a forever shirt since I’m still a size larger than normal so just want to find something that can fill the gap for a year. I don’t know why I’ve struck out with t shirts, I have some knit long sleeves from these brands that do the trick.
Anon
I found the nursing cami under a regular shirt method the easiest — my favorite were from asos but regular camis a size up from forever 21 worked really well too.
Anonymous
Eddie Bauer sells a tall size in their tshirts. Lots of colours and I find they wash and wear fine.
kag
H&M mama or Seraphine, especially when discounted.
Anon
What do you remember about your relationship with your parents as teens, and how is it now? I was reading old journals and my parents and I were constantly fighting, and was curious how common this was! Now we are somewhat distant but don’t fight, although they give me anxiety
Anon
I was an extremely well-behaved kid who never rebelled and got high grades so there wasn’t really much to fight about. I got along well with my parents although my mother could drive me crazy! My relationship with my parents is still good but my mother still drives me crazy. I love that you still have your old journals, OP.
Cb
Yep, same here. I’m an only child and I’m really close with my parents, but my mom pushes my button like no other.
Anon
Same for me down to the only child thing.
Ribena
Similar to this – although I harboured a bit of resentment for the things I knew I wouldn’t be allowed to do so didn’t even ask. Much better relationship now. Mostly.
Anonymous
Same experience here. I don’t remember what we fought about, but I did end up fighting with my mom a lot even though I got good grades and didn’t ever do anything very bad. I had a typical teen attitude, I guess, and also my mom happened to be going through some very stressful work years right as I went through the rebellious teen years.
She passed away when I was 27, right as we were reaching the adult friends stage of our relationship.
Anon
I’m sorry about your mom.
Josie P
+1. I got internally mad at my parents a LOT when I was in HS but I wouldn’t ever do anything to rebel (no sneaking out, no drinking, no drugs, etc.). We get along well now.
Anonymous
I mean, I got high grades, excelled in sports, never rebelled, taught Sunday school and volunteered and was pretty much a model kid, and my mom and I fought constantly. Like when she called me a wh!re because I wanted to try tamp!ns so I could swim at summer camp. Or when she canceled my sleepover for my 13th birthday party because she was convinced I was going to hide boys in the bushes to come have s!x and do drugs with us – and she told all my friends parents that’s what I had planned, so I then lost all my friends. Or when I was 16 and she showed up at the movie theater screaming and dragged me out of a movie that started at 8 pm – which she knew ahead of time – because I wasn’t home by my normal curfew, 9 pm. Or when she called my high school job and quit for me because she was mad I had managed to save a whopping $800 – which she emptied from my account – so I couldn’t run away. And through all this she offered me up on the altar of therapy because clearly I was a problem. And everyone she spoke to believed her and ignore me.
This attitude that if there’s conflict it must be the kid’s fault is a big part of the reason no one would help me when I was being abused for years.
Anon
I’m very very close with my parents now but my mom and I are oil and water when I was a teen and my dad was the mediator.
Cat
I was not a very “experimental” or boundary-pushing teen and wanted top grades for my own sake, so while every so often I’d be in trouble for average teen self-centered behavior, we got along fairly well for the most part.
Cat
oh, and now I would say close, honestly more friend-like than parent at this point!
Anon
I really felt like they Just Didn’t Get Me, Man, but loved them and felt close to them. My parents were stricter than my friends’ parents (many of whom were former hippies turned lawyers/doctors and seemed desperate to be their kids’ best friends/the “cool” mom/dad, and therefore set very few boundaries), but they were reasonable and not heavy handed. Sure, I got really mad at them sometimes, but we were close and remain close today.
anonshmanon
Good for the most part, with regular disagreements about my assigned household chores and occasional jealousy that my baby sister was getting things so much easier than me.
Anon
Yes, same for me, except with my younger brother! He got away with everything even though he was a pretty terrible kid. I still have a lot of resentment about that.
pugsnbourbon
My younger sisters didn’t even have a curfew!
anonshmanon
and she never had to negotiate up her allowance!
Carrots
There was a journal from my early high school years in a box my mom gave me over the holidays and it was actually kind of validating to read some of the entries about how I was feeling in those moments with my dad and step-mom. We definitely had a fraught relationship after I moved back in with my mom and when I was in college – it warmed up a bit when I was living near them, but once I moved farther away, it’s cooled off significantly. It’s not icy, but it’s acquaintance level.
Anon
My father terrified me, and my mother picked fights with me. (They were divorced.)
Twenties: tried very hard to appreciate them and what they did for me. Gritted teeth and assumed that everyone, particularly my father, had good intentions. When he jabbed at me or screamed at me, I assumed that on some level, I deserved it.
Forties: do not speak to my father and I have drawn some hard boundaries with my mother. Received a LOT of therapy for the way my father treated me.
Upshot: my teenage self underestimated their dysfunction.
Clara
I got good grades and was well-behaved. I think I was fairly okay with my parents as a teen, but honestly once I got to college and saw the wider world and got out of my shell a bit our relationship deteriorated. The first year of college was rough.
Anon
I loved that my parents genuinely seemed to enjoy doing things with my brother and me. Whether it was our activities or doing things as a family, my parents were happy to be with us, and we all really had fun together. My brother and I definitely screwed up, but my parents usually gave us some kind of consequence then moved on. We never felt like we were a burden to them — they genuinely seemed to love doing stuff WITH us. Both my brother and I did sports, and I always felt like other parents showed up out of obligations — but my parents made it FUN. We’d got out to eat after games, they’d travel with us and host parties in the hotel rooms for other parents, etc. We would do fun trips over the summer. They were really awesome parents.
Somewhat ironically, my relationship with them isn’t as close as it used to be — as is probably apparent from how much fun we had as a family during our busy and active high school years, they still are super active in my hometown. They have a really busy social life, serve on a lot of boards in my hometown, travel a ton, and still play golf and tennis regularly with friends. We don’t see them as often as I would like (because we always have a great time with them — we always get babysitters and go out to eat and they are really fun grandparents who will go to kid stuff), but I’m happy they are still happily married and active (they are mid and late-70s). My guess is that they will slow down in the next 5 years, and our relationship will shift as I take on more caretaking. I think this phase will be tough on all of us, as neither one will be very happy with a truly slowed down pace of life.
Anon
<3
DH and I love hanging out with our toddler. We hope that he likes spending time with us when he gets older.
Anon
Oh my mom and I would go at it when I was a teenager.
I was a good kid who rarely pushed boundaries or got in trouble and was very academically and athletically focused (with likeminded friends, so we really didn’t have the time or energy to get into trouble).
But, my mom and I are pretty much the same person and we both have strong opinions and strong personalities so we really fought. To this day, we get along 90% of the time but dang can she get under my skin. I always say when we get along we really get along but when we fight we really fight.
My dad is much more mellow so we only fought when I did bring home the occasional bad grade or got in trouble. As adults I just avoid topics that we might fight over (politics or pursuing a career he doesn’t love for me).
As adults we are all quite close. We hang out almost weekly (especially my mom and I).
emeralds
This was/is me and my mom, except that we have very different personalities and ways of tackling the same problem. (She’s a Virgo, I’m a Gemini.) We started getting along much better as soon as I moved out for college and we weren’t constantly in each other’s space all the time. But yeah, on the rare occasion that we get into it these days, we really get into it.
Anon
I thought my parents didn’t get it, and to be honest I think they still don’t quite get it. My mom is a little wacky and now that I have kids I kind of wonder what she was thinking at times.
Anonymous
My mom has high anxiety about a lot of things (driving, being on time, stupidity of other people, etc.) and my dad was an alcoholic. When I was 14, my mom mentally checked out and my dad struggled with his addiction and recovery. He was eventually sober for the last 25-ish years of his life. We didn’t really fight because my attitude was that I didn’t care what my mom had to say because she was either off doing her own thing or just so inconsistent. I was fortunate that I was able to work at 14, supported myself, and bailed when I was 17.
Today, my mom is pretty healthy and in assisted living as she’s in her late 80s. I feel responsible that she has food and shelter, her finances are in order, and I pretend I care.
Anon
My relationship with my mom in high school was good. She spent a lot of time with me and pretty much ignored all the typical teenage backtalk. My dad and I fought a lot. He reacted a lot more to me talking back to them, and I was resentful that he had no appreciation for what a good kid I was (getting excellent grades in AP classes, seriously involved in a sport, no drinking, no dr*gs, driving responsibly etc). He has actually apologized for this and told me he was too hard on me, which was nice to hear. Apparently someone at his office had a come to Jesus talk with him! Now I’m close to them, physically and emotionally, but I enjoy spending time with my dad more. He and I are the same person basically and have the same sense of humor so we just laugh and laugh whenever we’re together. I love my mom deeply and she’s a wonderful mom and grandmother but I find it kind of hard to talk to her one on one and her she grates on me in a way my dad doesn’t.
I commented on the thread the other day, but I definitely made worse decisions as an 18 year old than as a 14 year old. It wasn’t my parents’ fault but for me college was really the first time I had any experience with real partying or dating and I went a bit wild. Nothing way outside the norm, but I definitely put myself in situations that were dangerous. That was probably the time in my life when I had the most emotional distance from my parents, because they got such a sanitized, filter version of my life. So for all the people on the thread yesterday that are so confident their kids will make better decisions at 18 than 14 — something to think about.
anon
I have very few specific memories but I was a depressed teenager abusing alcohol, so while I stayed on the honor roll, I also partied which my parents found horrifying. I remember being forced to go to therapy when they found my pot, and my mom being wildly judgmental about whether I had $ex with a boy who I was broken hearted about, and I remember yelling at each other about putting me up for adoption (her threatening and me encouraging). I felt highly criticized and like I couldn’t do anything right even though I had good grades and new myself well enough as a teen to know I had to stay away from any drugs but pot, which I also knew was a phase.
Shocker, we are not close and have a surface level relationship now.
Anon
The business of threatening to put you up for adoption… that’s bad. I’m so sorry that happened to you.
anon
Thank you. It’s still hard for me to reconcile everything because on one hand I lived a very privileged life and I do think my parents meant well, but I also have these really bad memories and feelings towards my childhood. I have accepted they are who they are and generally are nice people, so I keep them at arms length and support as I feel like it.
Anon
I’m a different Anon, but I was past 40 before I realized my parents were probably not serious about their threats to send me away (ie, that you had to do something a lot worse than being a smartass to your parents to get sent to what amounted to a reform school). It messed me up good, and for no reason. I left of my own accord as soon as I could – within days of graduating high school.
Anon
Yeah, that is awful. I have wanted to say it to my kid on occasion, but I’ve never actually said it because I know what a terribly damaging thing it would be to hear.
anon
I wasn’t a rebellious kid, so we didn’t have a lot of the typical teenage fights about missing curfew, partying, boys, etc. I do remember feeling very misunderstood by both of my parents at times, like they didn’t really understand my emotional world. And the biggest fight I’ve ever had with my dad was when my younger brother got a car before I did because, my dad reasoned, “that means more to boys than girls.” I saw red and called out the misogyny. But on the whole, we mostly got along and I always knew that I was loved and cared for.
Today, I still have trouble sharing my inner world with my parents, even though we talk at least weekly and see each other a few times a month. We enjoy each other’s company and get along well but struggle to go deep, emotionally speaking. But again, I know they love me and are incredibly proud of the adult I’ve turned into.
Anon
Oh man, I also saw red whenever my younger brother got stuff that I didn’t. He had a TV in his room and I didn’t! (First world problems but I was so mad.) He also got to eat more at dinner because he was a “growing boy.”
Anon
I was a well-behaved child with god grades, etc. However, I was never close to my parents, I am not close to them now, and I never will be. I tired to emanicipate many times. I moved out the day I turned 18 and never looked back. They have never understood me and I honestly don’t understand them. I do the bare minimum to not be viewed as ungrateful by others – such as showing up when one is in the hospital (usually for less than 15 minutes) but that’s it. No holidays, no visits that are not absolutely necessary.
Anon
This is so interesting to me. Was there some kind of big misunderstanding or fight or do you just not get along?
Anon
They are Rush Limbaugh-loving, rabid conservatives. I am far left leaning with my politics. They lack tolerance for anyone who is different from them (read non-white, non working class). We literally sold our home and moved when a non-white family bought the house next door. They are uneducated and make no effort to learn about anything. They think education is unnecessary and a waste of time. Neither of my parents finished high school. I was valedictorian of a high school of over 3,000 students, went to college and then grad school. We have nothing in common her than genes. I have never had a conversation with either of them without one or both of them making truly offense statements for no reason I can fathom. I just cannot…
Anon
Like Matilda in her family.
Roxie
There was a period about 14-15 where we definitely fought a lot but we made up quickly. I am one of 3 similarly-aged sisters so someone was always fighting with mom; dad was a much more lovable but not as emotionally intense presence. Both parents were incredibly supportive and all us kids were “good” – good grades, college-bound, good at certain activities. It was the pre-cell phone 90s so we def went places we shouldn’t have without them knowing but we had strong baseline values and enough freedom to be independent and learn while also being supported (unlike yesterday’s helicopter parenting thread, wow).
We are all super close now, best friends. Hanging out with my family is my favorite.
Anonymous
I was a rule following, straight A kid who had similar friends. My mom didn’t trust me, ever, and it drive me bikers. She tried to manage every bit of my life and it drove me bonkers.
She’s still like that. I think she matured at age 14 and still acts that way at 65. There was a lot of yelling and “because I said so” from her growing up.
I’ve put a lot of distance between us.
My dad treated me like a young adult and I had a ton of respect for him. I genuinely took his discipline to heart, vs my mother who I tuned out. My parents divorced as soon as my youngest sibling was out of the house.
Also, jokes on my mom because my siblings were all tons of trouble. She didn’t realize how easy I was til I was gone.
Anon
My parents were fighting with each other in my late elementary years ,and seperated right around the transition to middle school. That age is so messy and awkard that having a tense home life changed alot about me. Middle school was difficult, and I wasnt ever really happy in school or around my peers.
Teen me lived with my dad but saw my mom every other weekend. I could barely stand spending time with my dad, everything was Annoying and he’d get on my nerves so easily. I was just grumpy, annoyed, and pretty huffy. I was much more open to my mom. Time with her was an escape from my dad and how unhappy I was at school
Today, Im emotionally closer to my mom, and I can appreciate what my dad went through and enjoy time with him more now. They both remarried by my mid20s, and the step parent dynamic has worked out well for our relationships.
Anon
We fought a lot, my dad constantly invalidated any feeling I ever had and called me a selfish, ungrateful b**** a lot, and my mom never stood up for me. Not much has changed, frankly.
anon
My parents were really strict and controlling, like we’ll keep your part-time job paychecks for you until you’re 21, and if you cash one out then we’ll explode because how dare you, you don’t even know how to save and spend at that age; or how could you have picked French over Spanish in HS, what use is French; or you’re wrong for picking engineering over med school, there goes your future type of controlling. Our relationship is much better now that they recognize I’m a capable adult and stay out of my business, and I recognize that they did what they thought was right and had my best interest in mind, but I’m childfree mostly because I didn’t enjoy any part of that parent-child relationship in my youth and don’t have any desire to form one with another person, even if I can learn from it and do better, it’s just left a very bad taste that I won’t touch it with a ten foot pole.
anon
I’m another rule-following, straight A student. But I’m from an Indian family so this is kind of the norm in that culture. My parents and I got along, but were not close. I never talked to my mom about boys or s*x and didn’t date at all in high school. I was not close with my dad at all. He’s passed away now, but I he didn’t grow up in a very loving home so I don’t blame him for not being affectionate or loving.
I get along with my mom as an adult and my husband and I have gone on vacation with both parents so it’s nice that we get along like that as well. Even though I don’t share a lot of deep thoughts and feelings with my mom on a regular basis, I feel like she has my back and would help out if I’m dealing with a difficult situation.
Anonymous
Basically same as you. My mom can be very judgmental and I avoid too much time with her for that reason.
Anon
My kid requested spaghetti and meatballs. Looking for any favorite recipes!
Anon
Tbh, boxed pasta, jarred sauce and frozen meatballs.
Cb
And add a slice of butter to your sauce.
Cat
tbh, this is the recipe for any age, though it’s now fancier sauce and frozen meatballs from the Italian Market :)
Anon
Yes to the Italian market!! And Rao’s sauce :)
Cat
Talluto’s forever :)
Anon
Yes, despite my best efforts this is what my kids actually want.
Anon
For sure, especially for a kid.
anonmi
+garlic bread on the side
This is a weeknight staple in my house, and the kids request it often.
Anne-on
I think Deb’s recipe is a good starting point and easy enough to customize. I prefer my meatballs/sauce with fennel, more garlic (plus garlic pwder) and a lot more ground pepper and a fairly ridiculous amount of oregano (a la Veronica in Heather’s).
https://smittenkitchen.com/2019/03/perfect-meatballs-and-spaghetti/
Anonymous
I like Ina Garten’s recipe for meatballs. It is much more time consuming than frozen, but the results are delicious.
Ribena
My favourite meatball recipe is a repurposed ‘turkey burger’ recipe – essentially, mix 2-3 tablespoons of pesto with 1 lb of ground meat (it’s best with a mixture of beef and pork but delicious with whatever), then shape into little balls and cook off in a frying pan/ sauté pan before simmering in a simple tomato sauce (which might as well come out of a jar). That’s it. Super easy!
anon
I’d never thought of mixing pesto with the turkey to season it, but that’s a brilliant idea.
NYCer
Rao’s sauce and Rao’s frozen meatballs with any old spaghetti works for us.
Shelle
Came here to say Rao’s sauce! It’s expensive but what a difference in quality. When I wash out the empty jar it’s a surprising amount of oil compared to the cheaper brands that appear to be more water based. I assume that’s part of what makes a difference in the taste.
Anon
It’s really not expensive at Costco. The Rao’s jars are huge for the price. Recommend Costco!
Shelle
Thanks for the tip!
pugsnbourbon
I’ve made these before and they’ve turned out pretty good: https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/food-network-kitchen/the-best-turkey-meatballs-8036666
anon
I like the spaghetti and meatballs recipe from everdayannie dot com. It’s a little bit of extra work, but good results. Budget Bytes also has one that is good.
JD
Yes, make it easy. My husband found a great instant pot recipe with meatballs and pasta (various short pasta shapes like spirals) as they hold up better than spaghetti.
I’d just make this easy. Costco frozen meatballs (way better than any of the grocery ones I’ve tried) and Rao’s marinara. If you do spaghetti, a lot of kids prefer angel hair, but it’s very easy to overcook. I grew up on parmesan from the green can, but it’s so easy to get a small hand cheese grater/zester.
Anon
With a household income of 250,000, what is the maximum amount you would spend on a one-time something just for yourself or agree to your partner spending just on him or herself? Thinking of something like a new bike, golf clubs, or maybe a vacation. What’s your rough cap, assuming that household expenses and saving goals are being met?
Anokha
For me, the answer would vary depending on additional context (e.g., fixed costs like housing). It’s less about HHI and more about discretionary income.
anon
+1 not enough details for me to answer.
My all in pre-tax income last year was ~$250k. I have a small mortgage (<$1k) and my monthly SL payments are around the same amount. I save $2k a month. I still have a lot of discretionary income and my one time splurges are usually on art or jewelry averaging around $3k?
Anon
Agreed. We spent a ton on travel relative to our HHI but our fixed costs are very low because we don’t have a mortgage on our house or any other debt. I think that’s very relevant.
I guess I would say on our income (~$180k) with no mortgage, up to $5k feels pretty automatic, assuming the purchase is discussed in advance and it’s important to the person who’s buying. But it could potentially be more. I don’t know that there’s a set cap other than not interfering with our ability to pay bills and save. I would say it depends on the context. I plan to take a solo vacation net year that may be more than $5k.
Anonymous
+1. We make 350-400k but have 3 money put children and live in a VHCOL.
We solve this by keeping separate “fun money” bank accounts where we draw from for purchases. Outside that, idk, if it was a one time thing maybe $5k?
Anon
I can’t answer this because it depends so ouch on the purchase. My husband bought a $6k musical instrument a few years back but plays every week in the community orchestra and will have it for the rest of his life. I would feel weird spending $6k on golf clubs or a new bike, just because those things aren’t going to last a lifetime. I run, and I probably spend $1,500 a year on sneakers, shorts, race registrations, all that.
Anon
For a little more context, it would be a one time purchase to enable a lifelong hobby (which, in this case, actually is biking), but it would probably need to be replaced in about eight years or so. So not quite “one time” in the strictest sense, but not a recurring line item or something that needs imminent replacement. Finding it hard to gauge what might be reasonable when it’s not going into the monthly budget.
Anon
Take the cost and divide by the number of years you will have the item. Is that a reasonable sum?
Cat
I think you talk to your partner! “Partner, I’ve been eyeing an upgrade to my bike because xyz. The going rate for the better models is $123. How would you feel about this purchase?”
YMMV but husband and I are NOT “surprise” gift people, and so I would also probably say “hey, for my birthday this year, how about we allocate the gift budget towards the bike.”
Anonymous
For this kind of thing I tend to equate it to a gym membership. So say gym membership is $50/month then that’s $4800 over 8 years. Not saying I would spend that much on a bike but it is one of the perspectives we use on large purchases vs monthly costs. We also tend to be more willing to be spendy on health related stuff so like sports/exercise equipment is pricier than our relatively basic tv.
Anon
If you have the discretionary funds, spend them on a lifelong hobby. I wouldn’t angst about this at all.
Anon
If you can afford it then why not?
Anonymous
Why not just tell us what the thing is
roxie
Honestly you are making me so happy that I am not married. I can’t imagine having to ask permission for this.
Anon
It’s not permission, it’s budgeting.
Anon
Well, I’m married and we both earn a lot so we never have conversations like this either.
Cat
I don’t feel restricted having conversations like this and neither does my husband. Ultimately neither of us would actually even ask for something we thought was completely out of budget and neither of us has ever said “no,”, it’s just respect for our joint life and assets.
Anon
My husband and I discuss large purchases but we don’t ask “permission.”
Anon
It’s not permission in the sense of a parent asking a child permission; it’s more like a team member giving a heads up to and other team member.
Anon
For my husband and I, we tend to be less restrictive on spending if it’s for a hobby or activity that contributes to a healthy lifestyle. In this case, if you think a bike is going to help you get more movement in, get outside, etc. there is a lot of intrinsic value to that.
Anon
This is a smart way of looking at it.
anon
Yeah, personally, I’m much more free in my spending (and time budget as well) if it supports long-term health. So, excellent produce, things that encourage me to exercise, etc. Both because I want to be healthy and because it’s cost-efficient. A lot of problems that eating healthier and exercising regularly can avert or delay are really, really expensive, even with health insurance.
Anon
Here’s another way to think about it: if one of you had a heart attack and died at 62, or had a heart attack and severely diminished quality of life thereafter, what would you have spent to avoid that outcome? Obviously there are no guarantees in life, but I’m not going to “save money” by wrecking my body. Let’s say it’s an extra $2,000 a year for thirty years. Most people would gladly give $60,000 to not be dead at 62 or incapacitated or destroyed by diabetes.
Anon
ah, a bike is something I’ve done! My husband said “I need a new triathlon bike, it costs $5K.” I said “wow, bikes are expensive! Could you purchase next month, since I know our next CC bill will be big due to paying for airline tickets for an upcoming vacation.” And we lived happily ever after.
If your other needs are being met financially, I think as adults you should be able to spend money on fun stuff as you choose. So I’d expect to know the purchase was happening, have a say in the when of it, but not question the ultimate purchase. If it got to be $10K+, I would expect the conversation to be longer, but also don’t know that either of us would exercise veto power at any point.
Curious
Alternatively, you can have fun budgets as mentioned above, and save up. That’s how I paid for my mom’s big gift for her 70th birthday.
Cat
With or without a conversation?
We don’t have a specific cap but in general, we each have a pretty typical ‘burn rate’ for discretionary spending during a month, and I’d have a conversation with husband before going significantly beyond.
If one partner does something splurge-y then there’s a general sense that out of equity, the other person should receive something of their choice that’s similar in magnitude next time.
here she goes
+1 this is how we do it. Especially the last paragraph.
Anon
We’ve never had a set, inflexible rule about this or “held each other accountable” around spending. But generally, expenses over $250 get discussed. My husband bought a $2500 bike and I bought a $1000 handbag last year; we had the money and it was fine. We did discuss each purchase beforehand. We also tend to sell old stuff when we buy new stuff, more for clutter-management purposes than due to financial necessity. So a lot of large expenses end up getting offset over time.
I believe in being responsible with money and saving for the future. At the same time, we work hard and put up with a lot of BS from our jobs, and I don’t want to scrimp and save every penny, and never enjoy life, banking that at 65 I’ll be able to buy everything I ever wanted and travel everywhere we’ve ever wanted to go. I know way too many people who have died in their late 50s and early 60s to count on “later” being a thing. Life is for living. It’s all a balance and with something like a bike – I dunno about you, but I feel like any amount of money we spend on physical activity and healthy food is worth it, because those are investments in our health that should pay great dividends later. Exercising helps people stay healthier. I’d rather spend $2k on a bike than $60k on a coronary bypass.
anon
Our HHI isn’t quite that high, but any discretionary purchase above $150-200 is something we’d at least mention to each other first. And it wouldn’t even be in a permission-seeking sort of way; that’s just a boundary we’ve both set and followed. I recently assumed, because our income is higher than it was when we set that boundary, that I could fudge on that a bit. It turned out that my DH was not happy and was pretty hurt. He wouldn’t have stood in the way of my $500 purchase but he at least wanted to be notified first.
Anonymous
I think our income was probably closer to 300k at the time, but the minute I paid off my law school loans, I spent $10k on a horse. The most my husband has spent is I think 5k on a watch. We are childfree though so it’s not like we’re saving for college. Usually our big spending item for a year is vacation, but that’s joint.
Anonymous
(I should add obviously we talked about it first before I purchased said horse. I did not spend 10k without giving my husband a head’s up)
emeralds
Our HHI is a lot lower than $250k and my husband okayed me to spend $12k on a horse, which would have been funded from my own savings and not joint money.
But (update for those who were following the conversation last week), I will not be buying her. I’m really sad about it–I could barely look at her when I was at the barn for my lesson yesterday, I just wanted to cry–but I know it’s the right choice. My anxiety around taking on the commitment of horse ownership wasn’t going away, and I had a heart-to-heart with my trainer and we agreed that we can find a horse that will be suitable for my goals in a lower price bracket. But going through the exercise got me hard numbers about things like training board for budgeting purposes, so I’m going to see what it looks like to live with those financial constraints so I’m better-prepared in the future (or can take a really nice vacation), and answering the questions folks asked here was a good exercise that did show me I’m thinking about the right things. But possibly best of all, I got a confirmation that my trainer is a solid human being who has my best interests at heart and isn’t going to pressure me to buy something to make a quick buck. Those might be rarer than dead broke seven year olds with the movement to score in the 20s and the scope to stroll around Prelim :)
Anonymous
I believe my husband’s exact words were “I don’t think it’s a good idea, but I’m not going to tell you no.”
And yes, that is best of all. It sucks but there will be other horses. And I’m of the opinion leasing horses is also a great option because it’s a much more defined budget if you aren’t responsible for vet costs, so don’t rule that out either.
pugsnbourbon
Aw, I’m sorry she wasn’t the horse for you. Fingers crossed you find one soon!
Anon
Ahhh, I feel sad with you, but I support you in making this decision. Good luck with continuing to figure this out. Happy to hear about the support from the trainer.
An.On.
We keep separate accounts, so anything in the joint account gets agreed upon (unless it’s like $100 at the grocery store) and although we don’t have veto power over individual spending, I would say anything in excess of $500 gets a least a heads up, if not a full discussion.
Anon
I think it depends on a lot: is it actually a once in a lifetime purchase? How often will it be used? How important is having top of the line or is there a good option that’s more moderately priced?
I don’t think things need to be expressly tit for tat as long as no one in the relationship is taking advantage of it.
If you can afford it and your expenses and savings goals are being met and you discuss it together I think there’s not really a limit. IMO, we work so we can afford the things that will make us happy.
Anon
+1
anon
We are in roughly that income bracket – 2 kids, both work f/t, reasonable mortgage, max out retirement, regularly invest in kids’ 529; that said, we’re fairly frugal and live well below our means. I can’t think of a time either of us spent more than $500 for an individual purchase, but we’re not in the ‘expensive hobby’ (or really, any hobby) phase of life at the moment. My personal expenses that benefit just me include 3x/year botox, gym membership, clothes everyone once in a while. DH buys video games from time to time. I don’t know that either of us would be *opposed* to each other spending money on individual purchases, but there’s not really time or space in our life for things that aren’t directly related to kids or work so it hasn’t really come up.
Anon
My HHI is probably just above $200k. I’m planning to buy my bf a new espresso machine or luggage set for his birthday and spend around $500. Vacations are different because we can’t fly to Italy on $500. We do smaller, less expensive trips and then maybe one big one every other year.
anon
Income is only half of the picture. Expenses?
Anon
Honestly, if your goals are being met and you can afford it, why so much hand-wringing? You can’t take money with you. If the thing you or your partner wants will contribute positively to your lives and you can afford it, then get it!
I get it. Sometimes I feel bad spending money on myself, but then I ask myself what I’m saving it for? I’ve never regretted getting something I truly wanted and carefully considered.
Anon
Oh, I’m definitely spending something, but I’m having trouble figuring out the budget. For what I’m buying, a new bike, there is a pretty big range for what I would be interested in. The absolute cheapest would be about $2500 and the most expensive would be over $9000. I do feel a little uncomfortable spending four figures, but since that’s what’s absolutely required for this level, I can make my peace with it. It’s just finding a happy medium within that level and figuring out how to make it work in the family budget when it’s not the regular monthly expense. My husband thinks I should spend for something quality, which would potentially put me around 4000, but it’s a little hard to let go of the “get the cheapest in your range” mentality.
I appreciate all the responses so far! I like the point about being willing to spend more when it’s something that improves health and being active. That resonates with us in general.
Anon
Fwiw, I buy most things in the middle of the range. The cheapest is usually disappointing and the most expensive isn’t enough X better to justify it. Doesn’t apply for all things, but most consumer goods.
Anon
Ok, I went through a big (for me) bike purchase last year, I’m sympathetic! Some of the bike cost question depends on your skill level – a new bike really improved my riding and enjoyment, but since I’m kind of an intermediate rider I’d say (on the slower end in my cycling club), I do think there would be diminishing returns on a more high-end bike, for me, for now. Once I get stronger myself I might get a new bike. After talking to other club members I also saw how common it is to buy and sell bikes over time as your skill level improves and you get to know your preferences better. A new bike doesn’t have to be a lifetime commitment in that way, you can buy something that is right for you now and gives you some room to grow, and then trade it in in a few years for whatever is next.
Also with a bike there are times you can buy on the lower end of what you need but then swap out components over time. That could let you manage costs and make custom decisions that are right for you. So you could focus on the right frame for now and then go from there.
anonshmanon
that’s an interesting clarification, and to me sounds like the consulting your partner is less the issue, and the buy cheapest mentality, which I can relate to. I found it helpful to remind myself of the times when I was frustrated with the cheap choices that I made in the past, and basically told myself to buy a proper quality piece next time that won’t break in 6 months, because I owe that to myself and it’s in line with my values overall, and at my income level, I view it as my responsibility to keep those companies in business that try to make better stuff.
More bikes than legs
Your husband ok’d the expense, you are just being frugal. I think a 4k bike rides better than a 2.5k bike but maybe try some bikes at that price point and see if you notice a difference? But honestly money spent on bikes is well spent, you won’t regret it and if you do, the resale market is pretty hot. Fwiw when our HHI was less we still spent more than 4k on bikes (each) but we are bike weirdos. And it could be a one time purchase if you take care of it, except for the n+1 phenomenon of wanting to upgrade or get into mtn biking or gravel riding or serious roady rides or some such shenanigans…
Anonymous
My immediate, gut reaction was $5k. I’m thinking alone/not including the other spouse/things that primarily are for the one spouse – stuff like a bike, golf clubs, cosmetic laser treatments, girls trip, annual specialty gym membership. Is there any wiggle room? Yeah, but I’d definitely expect my partner to talk to me about it first. I’m not a “goose and gander” budget person but I’d probably be thinking about whether this year or next year in the budget I invest in ____ for myself. I’d be fine with a one-off higher expense, but wouldn’t want it to be a surprise. Some of my friends’ nice bikes have run into the low 5 figures by the time they tinker and adjust. (In this specific example, we’re talking an active/competitive hobby, and they usually sell another bike for 1-2k at the same time so they keep 4-5 total bikes in the garage, it is both for their health and also something they can incorporate family in)
Counterpoint, one of my friends with similar HHI and good savings told me her DH arrived with a surprise Jeep one day “for him”. That was not as great of a surprise. Could they afford it? Yes. Had they vaguely discussed a Jeep, someday? Yes. Did they both agree they should get it, at that time? No. So that’s an obviously higher amount, coming from savings, but it wasn’t so much the amount – it was that he did it without telling her.
Together expenses, like a mutual or family vacation, my amount would be much much higher.
Anon
Oh man on the jeep…. that’s like those holiday car commercials where the car with a bow is in the driveway but the camera pans out before the fight starts :)
Beyond the financial aspect, I can’t imagine not TALKING to your spouse about such a major decision!
Anon
+1 The jeep is making me think of not only that car with bow commercial. But also what if that jeep was in the most obnoxious color you could think of? If I woke up and had to look at a lime green jeep in my driveway or garage everyday I’d be physically ill.
anon
I would be SO PISSED if my spouse came home with a freaking vehicle without at least talking to me first.
anon
A billion percent yes. Those commercials make me ragey.
Anon
I’m in the process of buying a car now; old one needs too many repairs. Discussion with DH is basically – am I right to not fix the current vehicle, here’s the replacement I am considering, here are the drawbacks, here’s why I think this particular car is the right one to get.
JD
Around that HHI, we don’t have a strict budget as we’re both savers, but in a HCOL area. We agree to chat about anything approaching $200-300 dollars. For a really big purchase, it would start as a discussion. For a really big purchase, I’d be open but want some kind of parity (you can take a solo vacation this year, I get a big purchase next year, etc). We just bought a house last year, so we may have to really budget at some point in the future. We set aside separate fun money accounts, but really don’t use them yet. If we do seriously do fun money at some point, I wouldn’t expect to have any say over his purchases, only vacations where it impacts my own time off and childcare.
Anon
It wouldn’t depend as much on income level for me. It would be about savings levels. If all savings were on track and I had “extra” then I’d think about a splurge.
Anon
How do you style flares? Do you have a break? I have a pair and cannot figure out shoes / boots / flats or if the length is too short (and should be hemmed to a deliberate cropped flare).
Cat
You def have to pick a length. I hem mine for heels and have the back hem only slightly about the ground, so there is a slight break in front. I’m going for a dressy look for Office Jeans with this, though.
Cropped flares are a complete no-go for my already-short-for-my-height legs so I’m not even entertaining the thought.
Anon
I have some flares and I think they are too short based on Cat — no break so they look too short to my eye. And flat boots didn’t help, so I think I will try with flats and them hem if it still doesn’t seem right. They fit great otherwise.
anon
I think cropped flares are SO CUTE. On other people. I’m 5’8″ but all my leg length is above the knee. The cropped flare looks very, very odd on my proportionally shorter calves.
anon
+`1 That’s how I used to wear my flares back in the day. I’m short and wearing them with heels looked better than with flats. That’s one of the reasons I don’t wear flares anymore. I don’t like wearing heels anymore and I don’t want to spend time getting them hemmed. And I WFH now so I’m in slippers most of the day.
Anne-on
I have two pairs – one hemmed for a low heel (1.5-2inches) and one hemmed for flats. Both have what is probably closest to a half break, they show some but not all of my shoes, and definitely do not touch the floor. I personally like to wear them with a blouse or other top which is tucked (or at least half tucked) and a belt. Totally agree that it took me some time playing around in the store/at home to figure out how I liked them styled. Leaning into the 70’s feel and/or channeling Cate Blanchett in Ocean’s 8 is my goal!
Anonymous
We’re in a fashion moment when you get to choose your length. Some flares are worn long, nearly grazing the ground. Others are worn just barely above the shoe, so that the whole shoe is showing and is a feature of the outfit. Then there are the more deliberately cropped lengths.
I’d choose one of those three lengths. If you do the “show the shoe” length, then you’d want the shoes to add to the outfit, not simply be a random pair that you grab in passing.
Anon
I looooved wearing flares with heels in college (early 2000s), with a pointy toe heel peeking out. I’m excited to hear flares are coming back (they elongate my legs), but I don’t see anyone wearing them yet in my circles. I am tall, and cropped flares look ridiculous on me, like they’re accidentally too short.
Insta Ads
Favorite purchases from social media ads? I used to ignore them, but then got sucked in to buying a carry-on suitcase that my toddler can ride on (MiaMily) and love it. Now I have tabs open for Kizik, Birdies, Numi, etc. and wonder if any of them are worth buying…
Anonymous
Birdies are SO comfortable. Very happy with that purchase.
Sybil
Oh I love Birdies – I don’t even put them in the same category as some of the questionable SM ads I see. Also interested in Kiziks but haven’t made the leap. I did buy (and am happy with) a couple bras from Understance recently, so maybe I am more of a social media ad sucker than I realize.
Panda Bear
I have a pair of Kizik sneakers. They really are super easy to step into. Not as supportive as a proper pair of athletic sneakers, but very comfortable for running errands and puttering around the house. I also have a few Numi undershirts and like them quite a lot. I am short waisted so they were terribly long on me (wish I had opted for the cropped style), but I hemmed them myself. I love that they are reversible with a very deep scoop neck, so they work well even under v neck sweaters. I am always chilly, and hate getting deodorant marks on my tops and dresses, so the shirts have been helpful in both respects.
JD
My husband loves his Kizik sneakers (he also prefers Walmart jeans, fyi). I say they are only borderline stylish, so you’re giving up some style for convenience.
Anonymous
Thrive mascara. I also bought a string bracelet that has a sort of bead-looking thing and the bead contains a photo that’s super small of me and my dog–I love that bracelet. It’s like he’s with me but no one knows.
brokentoe
Laura Geller baked foundation for us ladies of a certain age. Doesn’t sit in lines or wrinkles, can easily vary coverage.
Anon
Great question! I was wondering about the TA3 bathing suits, too! Have anyone tried them and can report back?
Anonymous
Years ago I bought a Buffy comforter based on their subway advertising. It’s been wonderful!
Anon
Looking for recommendations for a moderately priced road bike or light hybrid bike. I like to ride 30ish miles on paved paths (and occasionally gravel paths) on the weekends and I do a few triathlons for fun each summer.
Looking to keep it under $600. I want something light as I live on the third floor of a walk up. I’m 5ft 4in.
I’ve been looking at some Giant and Specialized bikes if anyone has opinions on them.
Anon
I have always had good luck with Specialized mountain bikes (can’t help with road models). The brand is considered innovative, especially for being so large, and they have a good selection of entry level bikes. The warranty policies are good and it’s easy to find parts. Word on the street is that they will continue to have huge sales because they made too many bikes during the Covid boom. Keep your eyes peeled.
Cb
Yep, everyone I know with a Specialized bike is really happy with it.
I’m currently bike shopping – my big box cheapy is finally wearing down, and I’m renting a Forme hybrid for a few months while I go and try things out.
Anon
A Trek Hybrid bike might be a good fit. I traded in my road bike for a hybrid when I started doing more crushed gravel paths. The road bike was just too unstable on gravel for me. I’m 5′ 0″ and was able to buy one for about $600-$700 range two years ago. It’s still light enough I wouldn’t mind caring it up stairs if I had to.
I’m not a huge biker but my husband is. He tends to gravitate towards Trek over Specialized because the bang for buck on stock components is pretty good for the mid-range/low price point.
Other tip, I think your timing to look now is a good idea. In the last couple of years, this price point of bike is the first to usually become out of stock by late spring. The demand on bikes and bike frames has been through the roof since 2020.
anon
I’m in the market for the same thing and am having a very hard time finding anything under $600, sadly. That was about my cap, too. Trek might be another one to look into.
BeenThatGuy
I just bought a Specialized for my teen son this weekend. There were no base models at the shop that were under $600. The base models started closer to $800, plus tax and accessories (kickstand/water bottle holder/etc).
anon
You’re not getting a new one for $600 or
less. If you know what size you need, gently used might get you what you want. Find a local bike shop that carries Specialized and see what they can do for you or find on the resale market. People upgrade a lot.
Anon
I wouldn’t be so sure. We are likely to see some very big sales just in the next few weeks as old inventory gets cleared out.
Anon
Talk to cyclists in your area and let them know you’re in the hunt for a new to you bike and what size (probably 49 to 51 cm or size small). $600 is the absolute floor for a new bike, but you can get something pretty decent used in the $600-1000 range, especially if you’re okay with rim brakes. Given that you’re not a big rider and not using the bike for particularly extreme uses, rim brakes are completely fine. It’s what’s on both of my road bikes. Rich guys upgrading to the latest, greatest, lightest is how I end up with really nice, lightly used bike stuff at minimal cost.
Anon
You may need to shop around for a sale if $600 is a firm stop for you, but if you can stretch just a tad higher I would recommend the Trek Verve 2. Mine goes mostly on paved surfaces with an occasional jaunt through grass, gravel, or sandy dirt and it handles all of that well.
anon
A challenge you will find is that for bikes, lighter = pricier, typically. Agree with others that used will be your best bet. If you’re going to ride on gravel paths, I think hybrid will be the way to go. You can put drop bars on if you want them, but you may be fine with flat bars for the distance and frequency you’re describing.
I would go to a bike shop that carries Trek (because they have a really big range of hybrids) and at least try some out so you know how they feel and what size you’d take, and what something that feels good to you would cost. Then, if it’s more than you can pay, you can keep an eye out for sales/stalk Craigslist or FB marketplace for deals. If you know cyclists, yes, let them know you’re looking.
Anon23
I have a Liv Bike (Giant’s sister brand focused on women) that’s a hybrid and I like riding it to work – but I agree that $600 for a new bike may be a bit on the low side, depending on what you are look for. Hopefully you can find something great that’s second hand! Mine has front and back fenders and a rack for my bag – which I really appreciate those fenders when it’s a bit wet out!
Anon
See if you can find a used Specialized Ruby in your size. I rode one for a decade plus and the geometry is very comfortable and it was a great bike.
Anon
As a bicycle professional, do not ask other people which bike to buy. set aside a day, go to your local bike stores, and try some out. People’s bodies and proportions vary wildly and what one person here likes, another may find awful. Tell them what you told us. others are correct on budget, you may have zero to one choices under 600 but there should be a few choices at each shop under 1000. Definitely do not listen to other people’s husbands.
Josie P
More Paris dinner Qs (sorry!) – any suggestions for a jacket for my 13yo boy? (Not a blazer). Same for my 10yo girl? As I mentioned before, they only own hoodie sweatshirts and puffers. ;)
Cat
What kind of puffer do they already have? Are we talking a neutral color Nano Puff or bright colors?
Josie P
The 13yo has dark green Uniqlo but the 10yo is a bigger pouf and mint green with a hood.
Cat
A dark puffer is fine. If your daughter would get wear out of, say, a navy or black puffer coming up, could be a good choice.
Anonymous
I was just in Paris with my 15 and 12 year old daughters. We were coming from skiing and didn’t want to pack multiple coats, so they just had their ski jackets. My older daughter would never have chosen to wear her ski jacket out to dinner in our East Coast city. It was fine. Don’t buy new jackets. No matter what you get, they’re not going to look like anything but American teens on vacation.
Anon
What do they like? I think I had opinions about clothing by that age. Maybe you could start there.
Anon
+1
Anon
I think a dark colored not super puffy puffer is fine.
I’d suggest a pea coat or other wool coat (especially for your daughter), but based on your previous post I think our kids dress quite differently so not sure if it’d get any mileage after your trip.
Anon
I think you are waaaay overthinking what your children are going to wear on this trip.
Josie P
Oh I totally agree ;) – on a conference call and just browsing for them now!
Anon
I’m surprising myself by typing this because I am someone who likes to look the part, but with kids on vacation, I just wouldn’t bother trying too hard. Unless you’re going somewhere where you get kicked out for not having a proper coat (and I think there’s nowhere like this, I went to a 3 Michelin star restaurant in Paris very underdressed by accident, long story, and took a little side eye but that’s it) it’s not worth the expense or trouble of traveling with an extra coat.
Anon
+1 People give so much leeway to kids. Yes, they’ll know you’re tourists, but they’ll know you’re tourists no matter how you dress. You’re overthinking this.
Cat
idk, I get that a Parisian waiter can size us up as American before we say a word, but I’d rather be seen as ‘tourist who gets it and makes an effort’ as opposed to ‘clueless woman who got lost on her way back to the tour bus.’
Anon
Except for me, I’d have to care more about a random waiter’s opinion of me (which probably is low regardless) than my overall convenience. I’d rather spend the money the kids coats would cost on anything else.
Anon
You’re way overestimating the amount of time any Parisian, waiter or not, is going to spend thinking about you.
Anon
I feel pretty strongly about dressing for the occasion so I’d get new coats (and shoes) for the kids for this.
Anonymous
Why can’t they just wear sweaters instead of sweatshirts, with the puffer over for outdoors only?
Anon
Feel free to correct me, Josie P, but it seems like the kids only have casual clothes like sweats and sneakers.
I totally agree though that puffers with nicer clothes underneath are fine.
Anon
Getting them a nice outfit seems like a better choice than nice outerwear that they will immediately take off to reveal sweats.
Anon8
Has anyone who’s childless by choice here opted to get sterilized? I am in my early thirties and feel more and more sure by the year that I don’t want kids. Especially as the landscape of ab*rtion rights gets grimmer, and I’m due for a new IUD in a year, I’m wondering if it’s worth it to go all the way and get sterilized. Anyone who’s made this decision for themselves have any considerations or advice?
Anon
I haven’t, but I believe can be very difficult to find a doctor who will perform it if you’re childless. My OB is even reluctant to do it on women who “only” have one child, which really p1sses me off as someone who’s very firmly one and done. I don’t personally want to be sterilized but I don’t like that she’s making a judgment about the “correct” family size.
Monday
I have read about doctors refusing outright, or requiring a meeting with the woman’s husband to confirm that he was on board with her getting the procedure! It’s ridiculous. Any doctor who claims to support reproductive choice in a post-Roe country needs to get their head out of their a$$ on this issue now.
Anon
Yeah, honestly I’d get a new doctor if mine was in this camp, whether I wanted the procedure or not. That attitude makes it clear that the doctor doesn’t trust a woman’s opinion about her own body and mind. For a doctor who’s supposed to have women patients’ interest and health in mind, that attitude is just unacceptable.
here she goes
SAME!
Here’s a reddit thread that has childfree friendly doctors that will do sterilization procedures – https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/wiki/doctors/#wiki_the_childfree_friendly_doctors_list
BeenThatGuy
Agreed. My Dr asks me every visit….”are you ready to make your birth control permanent”?
Monday
And I have no sympathy for the supposed fear of a patient changing her mind later and suing the doctor for performing the procedure. This is health care–we have informed consent waivers for everything. Take the form you use with vasectomy patients and add a bold paragraph saying the procedure is permanent. Figure out a solution other than denying care.
Anon
That’s insane!! Some doctors are so awful! I am firmly childfree and just take birth control to avoid a period. I don’t think sterilization prevents that.
Nudibranch
Pagingdrfran on IG has a list of doctors who’ll do sterilizations. Also lots of supportive posts on this subject. You may want to take a look.
Anon
Childfree by choice, 48, and I wouldn’t do this unless you live in a state where abortion is illegal or other forms of birth control really don’t work for you. I was solidly confident in my decision but in my late 30s I had a moment where I doubted that decision for a while. Ultimately decided not to have kids but I’m glad I hadn’t taken the option off the table. It was important to my lifetime comfort in the decision to go through a period of actual wrestling with the idea once I was married to someone I could see having children with and being capable of making a different choice.
Anon
Married and in my mid 40s and completely agree with this.
Anon
Agreed. I had a child at 30 and was 100% sure I was done, then got divorced a few years later and was even more sure that I didn’t want any more. I got married again at 38 and am now turning 39 this summer and think I want another one. Not quite sure whether we are going to try or not, but I’m glad the option isn’t completely off the table and I *ABSOLUTELY* did not see this coming. If you go back 3 years, I would have bet every penny I had that I would not even be thinking about this.
Anon
The Republicans’ goal is to make it illegal everywhere and after that they’d probably try to make this illegal. If OP says this is what she wants how about you just believe her?
Monday
Yeah–I absolutely respect everyone who has changed their mind over time. But I can add an anecdote as someone who did not. Since childhood, I have felt clear that I did not want to be a mother. Pregnancy has always terrified me. The longest I have ever considered having kids was, like, for a few hours while trying to discuss it with a partner who was interested. But as soon as I regained focus on what *I* really wanted, it was obvious every single time that I did not want to be pregnant or have a baby. I still sometimes have bad dreams about accidental pregnancy.
I am now a happy 41-year-old stepmom. I have everything I want in my family life. My partner has had the V and is done having kids, but if I was in any other situation right now, or was any younger, with reproductive rights so much in question, I would likely be considering tubal ligation too. Some of us really do know…
Anon
I’m the Anon at 10:22, and this is my experience as well. I have never wanted children, from the time I was young. I would tell people when I was a kid that I didn’t want children (this is a common question in the south… not sure about other places). People would often tell me I’ll change my mind one day. My parents would say, “I don’t think so. She’s always been so sure…” And I never have changed my mind.
There was a few month period with my ex husband when I agreed to try to get pregnant because he wanted kids, and was beyond relieved when it didn’t happen in those few months.
I believe there are women who do change their minds, of course. But just adding a voice that there are those of us who are sure and who don’t and who should be provided options on how to run our lives and healthcare.
Anon
OMG why are you making my response political?? FFS, I opened with “if you live somewhere where abortion is at risk” and fully recognize the issues with that. I’m sharing that there may be more to it. For my entire life I was POSITIVE I didn’t want children. Until I wasn’t. As I said, I ultimately landed on staying childfree being the right decision, but when you’re staring down the finality of the decision and you’re in a different place in life, you may want the option of changing your mind. Why can’t you believe me that life and decisions are more complicated than a headline?
Anon
Exactly. Plus the OP doesn’t say that she’s always known that she doesn’t want kids or even that she knows that for sure now! I agree that there are people that this could be the right decision for, but she certainly doesn’t sound all that definite and I think you should be before making that decision. I’ve never at any point had any desire for kids, but my life has changed so much over time that I’m really glad that I didn’t make an irrevocable decision that took the option off the table, even though I did ultimately decide to stay child free. You never know how your life is going to turn out and what options that seemed inconceivable 10 years ago suddenly become appealing.
Anon
Why can’t *you* just believe OP?
Anon
What exactly do I not “believe”? She asked for considerations about the decision? I wish I’d had something like this when making life choices along the way. If she was certain she wouldn’t be seeking input.
Anon
+1000 to anon at 10:19. If she was certain, she wouldn’t be asking for input. Why can’t you believe THIS woman who is saying she changed her mind??? The OP just asked for experiences….which are being shared.
Anon
So, I’m just going to say that a lot of women I know, including myself, went through a late 30s/early 40s bout with “oh but maybe I do really want a baby/another baby” and it almost always ended up being a transient phase that passed. I think it’s when we start the transition into perimenopause and our body knows – it’s now or never – and our body tells our brain, hey, maybe we should have a baby! Right now! And pumps out hormones that turn a passing thought into a semi-serious consideration, even in the face of logic and/or life circumstances that make having a baby impractical (or impossible). One of my friends who went through this a few years before I did explained it as “It’s like taking drugs: you have to know when the chemicals are doing the talking.” I am not advocating for going ahead with sterilization even if someone has doubts – that seems like a recipe for heartbreak, if not disaster. But do just want women to know that it is very, very common to have the age 38/39/40 “I woke up this morning and think I need to have a baby right now” experience.
Anon
Yeah, I hated being told “you’ll change your mind” [about not wanting kids]…and then I did.
Anon
Yes! I had the same mental calculus as you are having. My IUD was set to expire in the near term. I’d been thinking about it for a couple of years and then the abortion opinion leaked and I happened to have my yearly check up the next week. So I talked through all the options with my doctor and decided to get my fallopian tubes removed. I did it because I knew I didn’t want to have children, and it would eliminate the need for an abortion ever (with an IUD or other methods, you can still get an ectopic in very rare circumstances). I also think my state will soon make IUDs illegal and I do not want to be on the pill again. But the biggest reason was that I am positive I don’t want kids and I don’t want to have to deal with birth control anymore.
The procedure was out patient and laparoscopic. It was easy, but I didn’t bounce back quite as quickly as my doctor said. He said I’d be basically normal after about 10 days, but my body wanted to take it easy for about a month. I wasn’t having pain or anything, just wanted to make sure. Everything healed up perfectly and I couldn’t be happier with how it’s worked out.
I was slated to get a uterine ablation at the same time so that I’d never have a period again. Unfortunately, my uterus had a tiny pinprick hole in it when they started to do the ablation, so they couldn’t complete it. That is fine, and I might get it done eventually in the office. I don’t mind having my period for now, but I’ll probably get sick of it and just get the ablation sometime. My best friend had her tubes removed and opted to get her Mirena replaced at the same time so she doesn’t get a period, but she does have that level of hormones from the IUD.
No regrets at all! 10/10 would recommend.
The only hitch is that some doctors won’t do it or give you grief if you’re doing it and never had kids. My doctor was very supportive and never even hinted that he didn’t trust my judgment in that regard.
pugsnbourbon
I used the word!
I’m married, childfree and had it done at 34 when I had a cyst removed. My doc didn’t bat an eye. My wife (who is tr a ns) can’t get me pregnant but no matter what happens in the future, I want to control MY body.
There’s a list floating around the internet of docs who will sterilize most patients who ask – I’ll see if I can find it.
pugsnbourbon
Found it. It’s crowdsourced so YMMV: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Djia_WkrVO3S4jKn6odNwQk7pOcpcL4x00FMNekrb7Q/edit?fbclid=IwAR2hFskfzeVOOksKtFdIZn8jI8VyV1LkIWTwo6aDdMOKvyBq-bTc3Kmc90s#gid=1318374028
Anon8
thanks so much for sharing this!
Anon8
Thanks for sharing your experience! This is really helpful.
pugsnbourbon
I’m married, childfree and had it done at 34 when I had a cyst removed. My doc didn’t bat an eye. My wife (who is trans) can’t get me pregnant but no matter what happens in the future, I want to control MY body.
There’s a list floating around the internet of docs who will sterilize most patients who ask – I’ll see if I can find it.
Sunshine
I’m 45 and CBC. I have been on the pill since I was 16 and it works for me. I haven’t done a tubal for several reasons including every woman I know who has had one has subsequently had a lot of odd medical issues. I am not a doctor and I am not saying this is a causal relationship. But I’ve noticed it and wondered if there is some relationship.
While I never waivered in my CBC decision, I do know some women who did when they got to their late 30s. One in particular then did IVF and had a baby. I hated hearing people tell me when I was in my 30s that I would change my mind and want kids. But apparently there are some women who do. I’m not saying you’re one of them; but I’m saying some women are.
Anon
What kinds of odd issues? I know lots of women with tubals (most after childbearing) and none of them have “odd health issues” that are connected to this. Neither my doctor nor my best friend’s doctor said anything about this, either, and both of us specifically asked about potential long term effects and related disease.
Anonymous
I’ve heard of a lot of women with issues related to the clips, not the tie surgery per say.
Anon
My doctor specifically advised me against the clips! I got my tubes completely removed. There’s also an option to simply cut the tubes, but I decided that also wasn’t right for me.
There are small risks with all hormonal birth controls and a small risk with surgical sterilization as well. For me it was the best choice. I just don’t want the OP to see these posts and think that most or all women have problems from the surgery because I don’t think that’s the case.
Anon
Yeah, I haven’t heard this either. I’m the proud owner of ligated tubes, know many just like me, and other than a brief recovery period, no long term issues.
(FWIW I had the ligation after having kids)
Anon
I actually know two women with issues, too. I know a tubal isn’t supposed to affect hormones at all, but they both have post-tubal ligation syndrome. I haven’t really asked about too many details but I wonder if it’s more common than they say. It seems statistically improbable that I should know anyone with those side effects. I’m tend to be kind of skeptical with these things because I’ve had OBs dismiss a very real health condition that I have – they tried to convince me that I didn’t have it so that I’d stop worrying about it.
Anon
My mom got her “tubes tied” when she was 27, right after she had my brother (she and my dad knew they did not want more children). They cauterized her tubes. She never had any weird health issues from the tubal ligation. She did eventually have to have a hysterectomy in her 60s, but that was due to fibroids plus having had two pretty big babies all-natural with no anesthesia or doctor assistance, back in the 1970s. She ended up with a prolapse and the only way to resolve it was with a hysterectomy.
I also have a friend who got her tubes removed after she had triplets (she and her husband are DEFINITELY done, lol) and she’s had no ill effects so far.
Anon
Same experience about some people changing their minds — among my friend, about 1/3 ended up switching sides. One friend got pregnant accidentally with her husband and they kept the baby and are thrilled they did, another friend is currently pregnant on her own. And I have several friends who absolutely wanted kids who later changed their minds too! And plenty of friends who didn’t. I think it’s wrong to say that any particular person WILL change their mind, but it’s not that uncommon for it to happen.
Anon
I changed my mind in my mid-30s. I’m one of those people raised in a very toxic household, where everything rolled down hill and bullying was actively encouraged. It took me dating two very kind men, one of whom is my husband, and ending contact with my family of origin. What did not change is that I would NOT want to bring a child into this world who would grow up the way I grew up.
This is why I hate it when people smugly say “you’ll change your mind some day.” Being smug about the aftereffects of a traumatic childhood – just shove it.
Anon
What is CBC?
I can’t find it online. “Complete blood count” doesn’t seem to be what you mean.
Anon
Childless by choice
anon_needs_a_break
No. I am 43 and still happily childfree, but I would never get sterilized – it’s a pretty major procedure. Instead, I used condoms throughout my 30s with my casual – to-moderate relationships and then partnered with a man who happily got a vasectomy.
Now looking at re-dating again in my 40s, having recently broken up with that man, I will only be with men who are done with childbearing and get a vasectomy themselves. It’s their turn.
Anonymous
Yeah, I think sterilization is the man’s responsibility because the procedure is much, much less invasive for him.
Anon
Same.
Anon
This works for some people, but for me, it was empowering to take absolute control of my body and my healthcare. I hope to be with my partner until we die, but that might not happen, and that doesn’t take away the possibility of anything happening outside either of our control. Of course that last consideration depends on where you live (OP might not live in a red state), but termination is illegal in my state now, even in cases of r a pe.
Anon
I knew I never wanted kids. I started trying to get tubal ligation starting when I was 18. Took me until I was 30 to convinced the doctor (after asking annually for 12 years) that I truly did not want children. Annoyingly, the doctor also made sure my husband was in agreement. I almost walked out but he was the best in the area and had finally agreed to do it. FYI, husband got a vasectomy at the same time. It was the best decision for us. No regrets other than it should not have taken so long and seriously, my husband had to agree?!?!?
Monday
Requiring a male partner’s agreement is totally unethical. We know that abusive men can use pregnancies as a way to control or further entrap their victims.
Anon
+1000000 this is infuriating
Anon
Yep! So wild. No thank you.
Anon
That should be something said to these doctors. “You are presuming that my marriage is happy and stable and healthy. Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. Know that some women are going to come in asking for this procedure as a way to protect themselves from an abusive husband and requiring his approval is wildly unethical. You aren’t trained to handle marriage issues and I am your patient. My marriage isn’t your patient.”
Anon
I don’t think that doctors who are doing this are doing it at women. They are doing it because lawyers (or the threat of lawyers) are jerks.
[Like I am surprised that this is how it is for grown women but if you’re 18 and tr*ns, it seems much easier. Again, nothing against the tr*ns community, but a grown-a$s cis women should be listened to about her medical needs just as much.]
Anon
First of all, it really doesn’t matter why they’re doing it. Second of all, LOL that you think a tr*ns teenager has easier access to healthcare than anybody here.
Anon
Totally agree. What a weird take.
Plus a doctor who specifically says to me that my decision about my own healthcare is dependent on what my husband says IS doing something AT me.
Anon
Yeah, it’s actually pretty insane. It’s easier for 17-year-old kids to get sterilized than it is for grown women.
here she goes
I’m childfree by choice, in my mid-thirties and next month at my annual appointment I am planning on asking my primary care doctor for a referral to a specifically OB/GYN who does sterilization procedures (she’s on the reddit list I posted above that is in mod). I’m like you, I feel more and more sure every year that I don’t want kids. DH and I have been married for 13 years and feel very confident, relaxed, happy about that decision. I live in a state that ab*rtion isn’t legal, although there are strong clinics in neighboring states and I have the funds and ability that I would be able to travel for one. I always thought that once my IUD was due to be replaced it would be DH turn to do the birth control and get a vasectomy. However the Dobbs decision last year really rocked me and I started thinking about sterilization procedures. It’s a body autonomy thing for me.
Anon8
Thanks, sounds like we’re on exactly the same page, down to the long-term marriage and thinking the spouse would get a vasectomy until the Dobbs decision.
here she goes
It’s kind of crazy how the Dobbs decision was a told mindshift for me.
And to all the people who know someone, or are someone, who changed their mind about kids – cool. That is the parent experience. You know who I actually would find persuasive? The childfree person who changes their mind after it’s too late to have kids. That is an actual relatable experience.
Also, I can’t describe it super well, but there’s some kind of faulty argument in the “oh you might change your mind” since all of the sides really aren’t socially acceptable to explore. Here’s some ways it can go, with varying degrees of social acceptability to say out loud:
A) you will never change your mind and be childfree forever and forever happy with that decision.
B) you will change your mind but won’t be able to have kids, so have to come to terms with that later in life.
C) you will change your mind but won’t be able to have kids, so you figure out another way to become a parent (step parent, adoption, foster, etc.)
D) you will change your mind and become a parent and then actually hate parenthood (not the kid, just parenthood) but that’s horrible to say and not socially acceptable so you will be quietly miserable during parts of your life (but the joy! they say makes up for the less happy)
E) you change your mind and become a parent and are happy
here she goes
obviously there are other ways it could go – but my point is – in these conversations, we never really talk about the possibility that you might change your mind and not be happier for it.
Anon
+10000000000 to this.
Anon for This
I never wanted children, even when I was a child, and fortunately neither did my husband. Many people told me to just wait and the urge would come over me, but it never did. I had a laparoscopic tubal ligation at 40 and never looked back. I was overjoyed that I’d never have to think about birth control again. And while YMMV of course, the procedure was incredibly easy for me. I had it done on a Thursday and was back at the law firm on Monday.
Anon
Childfree by choice people are told over and over and over that they’ll change their minds. Everyone has a story about changing their mind or their sister changed her mind or knowing someone who accidentally got pregnant and is now the best parent ever. I’m kind of shocked to see so many women here telling OP not to do it because she’ll change her mind. I’m sure she’s heard this and has considered it!
Anon
I’m CFC and have had to defend that for years. It is grating when people tell you you’ll change your mind, but what’s more infuriating is that you get boxed into a corner having to defend that choice when there are likely times when you actually waiver. I think the advice would sit better if framed as “you might want the option to waiver. Perhaps you change your mind, perhaps you don’t, but preserve your options.”
Anon
CFC?
Anon
Child free by choice
Anon
I agree that’s a compassionate way to phrase it if you’re having a conversation with a close friend who is trying to decide or who brings it up.
But it just seems like a nicer way to say, “Don’t do it! You might change your mind!” to someone who was asking for first-hand experiences with the procedure. She knows it’s not reversible and that it forecloses some options, so I guess I don’t understand why people assume she hasn’t considered that.
Anon
I’m Anon at 2:10 and just wanted to say I re-read OP’s post and can now see how it might be asking for the experience of anyone who considered getting sterilized, and not only the people who’d gone through with it. Apologies, and I do agree with the phrasing about it being normal to reconsider at some point.
Anonymous
I am team condoms for casuals and vasectomy for permanents
I have great access to abortion, though, and can get morning-after pills over the counter. If I were to move to the US, I probably would get sterilized beforehand.
Katie
I did. I found myself divorced and with Roe overturned, and my sister died from a pregnancy-related cancer. I hacve never wanted kids, and never want to be pregnant. I opted for a bilateral salpingectomy which my doctor recommended (seems to be a more popular choice as there’s no chance of tubes healing, and can reduce the risk of some cancers to remove the tubes entirely). I am very very glad I made the choice. Although my potential child-bearing years are waning anyhow, the peace of mind is priceless.
Anon
Where do we like to get towels from in 2023? It’s time for a refresh (particular w/r/t bath mats). Target? Ikea? Lands End? I’m OK with spending a bit more for better quality but often feel like it’s just an item with a 5 year max life span.
emeralds
Costco had some that felt really nice the last time I was there.
brokentoe
+1
Anon
I bought towels there, and they are nice and plush for the price. But they don’t last very long. The edges tear/wear too soon (after 2-3 years), in my opinion. I do use a touch of bleach though, but my other towels have lasted longer.
anon
Having a similar dilemma, and I’m going with Target’s Threshold line. I’ve had my current towels from the same line for 5+ years and am only replacing them because I can’t soften them anymore. Everything else has held up incredibly well, enough so that I’m feeling guilty about replacing not-soft towels. I tried that laundry stripping thing that’s on insta and what a time consuming, ineffective mess that was!
Anonymous
I have no idea what insta is, so I’m not sure what you’re doing to strip your laundry…but all you need to do is wash the towels once in hot water and then a second time with a 50/50 mix of washing soda and borax, and white vinegar in the rinse.
Anon
I bought the Vera Wang towels from Kohl’s based on a recommendation here. I’ve had them for a little over a year and they’re still great.
Cat
I’ve gotten addicted to waffle style towels – they dry SO much faster.
Anon
From where? This is a big deal for me (SEUS), so hoping you post a reply.
Cat
The Company Store – look for the Legends collection
go for it
H & M Home for the win in a humid house!
Anonymous
Thrift stores!
I wash them in hot water, then strip them, and they are good to go.
So many people donate nearly-new towels, and the most I have ever spent on one is $6 for an extra large bath towel. I haven’t bought a brand-new towel in over $20 years.
Lawyer and Electrician
Are there any lawyers, accountants, MBAs out there who have partnered with blue-collar partners like electricians, HVAC etc? Were there/ are there any sticking points in your relationship if your partner is blue collar?
anon
Yes. I am a lawyer married to a police officer. No real sticking points. We don’t have a ton of shared hobbies, but that’s not really due to any professional differences. His grammar isn’t great which annoys me. He comes from a very blue collar family and that’s been the biggest issue- his parents don’t see the need to ever strive or be better, and have a very limited worldview that they’re uninterested in expanding. I often wish my in laws were more educated or at least more curious so that we could talk about things other than their neighborhood gossip. I definitely opened my husband up to a whole new world- college reunions, international travel, investing- and luckily he’s very open minded, unlike his parents.
Anon
This is interesting. My bf is blue collar but traveled more than me, loves to read, talks non stop, etc. His family is not very well educated or goal oriented while everyone in my family has at least a college degree. Finances are our biggest issue because I need an emergency fund, focus on investments, retirement, etc and his attitude is more like I’ll figure it out then. This is why he traveled more than me while I was in law school and focused on my career. It can be tough but we work through it…meaning I force him to invest more and be more of a go getter lol. It can be hard when I work long hours and he isn’t as goal oriented or ambitious. It can definitely lead to fights but if a relationship is worth it then you work through those differences.
anon
My husband works in HVAC and I work in IT. I make 2x as more as him and we have combined finances. Been married 20+ years. We really don’t have any sticking points with regard to our careers. He works in facility maintenance and has to be onsite for his work while I WFH, so I do more of the household stuff just because I am home to do it.
I’m Indian and he doesn’t have a college degree so it was an issue with my family when we first got married. His family comes from a very different background where they are all blue collar and none of them went to college. We all get along fine and have combined holidays, etc.
anon
I’m a lawyer and DH is in the trades. Our values are very similar, but I think we took different approaches to education and learning as we grew up which may create more friction now that we’re raising children together. I will also say that although he’s never suggested I stop working after we had our baby, a lot of his models are sole husband/father breadwinner families and I feel like I’ve struggled with getting him to assume a 50/50 split of childcare and household responsibilities. His work is physically very demanding, while mine is more emotional/mental work, there’s very different plans for retirement age, and there’s definitely been times for both of us when we’re venting, and the other just is not getting it because of the difference in work culture. The other big thing is the sexism/racism/etc thing – although I definitely have known attorneys who had issues, it’s much more prevalent and open at his jobsites, and that trickles down into how we each approach those areas.
The benefit though is we also complement each other in other areas: my job can be more flexible, while his has better benefits. I do drop-offs and he does pick-ups. I can do storytime for the kids, and he can install a ceiling fan.
Bbanon
Could you say more about the racism/sexism? … like is it a propensity to denigrating talk that somehow doesn’t influence your day-to-day, something he’s had to evolve his thoughts about, something your tolerance level is lower for, etc.
I think racism/sexism are dealbreakers in a partner after experiencing a lot of that in those kind of environments, but otoh we all have inherent biases. IDK, just wondering how you mesh your “approaches” or if it’s an agree to disagree thing or something else.
Senior Attorney
My second husband was a blue collar guy. He was a malignant narcissist and it was a terrible marriage, but honestly the career thing was kind of the least of it. I respected his career (highly skilled tech guy doing what’s called “system integration”) and by the time I married him I had stepped back from the long hours in MidLaw, so that part of it was never a problem. (Actually, one of the things that kept us married for 15 years was that he traveled around the country doing jobs and was gone as much as he was home. If he’d been home more we would have split up sooner!)
Anonny
I wouldn’t say DH’s career is blue collar, but his background is. I’m a lawyer who was in private school from third grade on. Daughter of a lawyer. My parents and all of their combined 13 siblings have graduate degrees. Grandparents were all college graduates, and both grandfathers were physicians.
DH was first in family to go to college. Dad is in construction and his mom ran their family construction business. DH grew up in a blue-collar suburb of the city where I grew up.
My inlaws are very nice people and have welcomed me into their family whole heartedly. But we have nothing in common. DH also now has almost nothing in common with his parents. When we are together, we actually talk about the weather because there’s just nothing much to talk about. Dinners are painful only because there’s nothing to say. I’d say his parents fit a lot of sterotypes of southern, blue-collar folks. Yes, I intentionally used the word folks.
Before I met DH, he had decided he didn’t want to live in a blue-collar world; he wanted more. He had started traveling domestically and internationally, trying new types of foods, becoming better educated, had a white-collar job, start becoming more financially savvy. And now he has a very rich-man hobby. DH didn’t have great grammar when we met, which drove me kinda bananas, but he asked me to start correcting his grammar, and his is now better than a lot of my lawyer-friends’ grammar. He is curious about a lot of subjects and very interesting. My parents adore him.
Senior Attorney
Oof! I feel bad for your in-laws!
Anonny
I feel badly for my inlaws because they are unwilling to branch out from their world to get to know their very interesting, wonderful son. Instead they’re kind of unhappy about the fact that he changed so much. I think they struggle to view who he has become as a progression of what he came from rather than rejection of it. In many ways, they gave him a solid foundation on which he built a beautiful house. I think they wanted him to have the same house they did, which was fine also – just different and not what he wanted.
Anon
There’s really nothing you can talk about? Music, movies or TV shows? Things going on in town? Recipes? Could you play a card game or board game after dinner?
Bbanon
The “weather” is probably symbolic of all those things in her original post.
Anon
Jeez. Can’t you at least make an effort with your in-laws?
Anon
No, she has been in private school since 3rd grade and everyone in her family is so highly educated, the lowly in-laws are beneath her.
Anon
Ha!
Anon
Plus they can’t even talk good. Thank goodness her husband came to his (her) senses and asked her to teach him how to be a real person!
Anon
I’m an attorney who was a first gen college grad in the Ivies and the only one of my siblings to have a college degree. I manage to have lots to talk about with my family! Try asking them questions about what they’re up to and interested in. This is assuming there isn’t a political or religious divide. My parents are working class children of immigrants who share my political and (lack of) religious values.
Nesprin
Yep, scientist married to repair guy. Honestly, it’s less weird than you’d expect- we’re both high earners (though I’m a phd holder and he didn’t finish high school), but I have a career and he has a job.
Anonymous
ouch.
Anon
Yeah this seems really harsh! Why is being a repair guy not a career?
Anon
I didn’t see that remark as offensive. Maybe the husband considers his work a job and not a career? That can be a fine thing.
Anonymous
Yes, I am, but thankfully they don’t look down on me.
Seriously, what’s the actual question here? People are both different and the same. My partner is an electrician, currently makes less than me, but will out earn me as we add apprentices to his business. I’ve looked at some of his guides and manuals, and they require strong reading, comprehension, and memory skills. He’s good at what he does and is in constant demand — he picks the jobs he wants to do. I think he’s made the better career choice.
Rainbow Hair
My husband’s background was in construction. When I met him he was working retail, which he continued to do until we moved to another state and I took a full time job and he became a SAHD. I went to a fancy law school and had some prestigious jobs and now have something like, very nice but not that fancy.
The closest thing to a sticking point I can find is less about our professional background and more just the balancing of the SAHP duties with the working parent duties, us both feeling under-appreciated at times… I suspect that would be the case regardless of whose work/work history was fancier.
I love that he comes from a different perspective on education — like when we were choosing a kindergarten for Kiddo I said something like, “I guess we don’t *have* to push her to get into the very best college she can get into” and he looked at me like I had two heads, like “we were going to do that?!?!” It is so good that he’s there to provide balance to my overachieve-y approach.
Some people (though less so now that we live in California? now that we’re older? now that we’re more suburban?) acted surprised or whatever that a fancypants lawyer would end up with a retail guy, but hey, those people have values that are dramatically different than mine, so I don’t worry about their opinions! It just now occurred to me that “he’s a stay-at-home-dad” probably communicates more “we’re fancypants like you, just with reversed gender roles” than is accurate, and I wonder if that is why that never gets the same looks as “he works retail” did, huh.
Anon Attorney
Lawyer partnered to a plumber. I make more than my partner and I probably always will, but that doesn’t particularly bother me at all. We’ve structured our life so that he handles most of the household tasks and I only do the ones I like or the ones I need to have done (I make the bed every day because I need to have the sheets touch my body in a certain way). Also no one has said it yet, but having a partner who is handy and will voluntarily clean out clogged drains is much more of a plus than folks may think!
Rainbow Hair
My husband and I are currently (as in today) dealing with the fact that “I used to do roofing [20 years ago]” is not the same as “I do roofing” — dealing with it in the form of a roof that is STILL leaking — so I guess that’s the downside to a formerly-handy spouse lol. I’m sure if he were still doing it regularly, it would be a different story. That being said, anything that is built/fixed/repainted/whatever in our house is done entirely by him. Just … not the roof next time.
anon
I’m a life long stomach sleeper. During two pregnancies I used a C-shaped body pillow (Snoogle) to side sleep. 4 years later I’m still using the pregnancy pillow to help me at least fall asleep on my side (I was experiencing lower back pain from sleeping on my stomach so my goal is to make myself a side sleeper). The Snoogle has lost most of its firmness/fluffiness and I need to replace it. Most body pillows are straight, not curved. If you use a body pillow, do you also use a regular pillow for your head? Or do you bend the body pillow to support under your head? I don’t get the set up. IOTW, I want something supporting my head and something to rest my top shoulder on/stay between my knees.
Anon
I have a straight body pillow and use regular pillows for my head.
Anon
I have a king-sized foam cooling pillow and aim it diagonally. I’m not a true stomach sleeper the way kids are (flat with 90 degree turned head), more like a 45 degree lifted body so my head doesn’t have to crank all the way to the left (somehow I partially stomach sleep only going head-to-the-left).
FWIW, I am trying camping and it seems like there is no way in h3ll I can pull off this position in a sleeping bag.
Anon
Why not just get another snoogle?
Cat
Is there a reason you don’t want to just buy another pregnancy pillow? That would seem to be the obvious solution to me…
ABC
I am still using my Snoogle from 10 years ago! I also put another pillow between my legs, a feather pillow under my head/neck (but on top of the snoogle) and hug a memory foam pillow. It’s a lot. I wish there were ergonomic sleep specialists like there are office ergonomic specialists.
Anonymous
Anyone have On Cloud sneakers? I got them duster day and can’t decide if I like them. My kids like them, which I can’t tell if that’s a positive or negative ;).
They feel very different from my current sneaks, which isn’t really good or bad.
edj3
I run in ON Clouds (Cloudflow), and also have the ON X3 for CrossFit/weightlifting. They work well for me, I have a narrow, low volume foot.
I just bought and am returning a pair of ON Cloudmonsters. They run wider and are a bit short in the toe box.
Anonymous
Oh interesting. I bought cloudflows and i have a wider (but not wide) foot. Maybe I should give the cloud monsters a try and compare!
Anon
I had been eyeing the Cloudmonster. I have wide feet with short toes. Your description has persuaded me to try them.
Anon
Are you using them for running or just for wearing? And if you’re using them just for wearing, what are you wearing them with?
Anonymous
To be fashionable while getting mild exercise (dog walking, walking kids to school, hanging out during kids’ sport practices). I would say worn with leggings and an athletic top/jacket (I have a lulu define jacket, so probably that or a fleece, a Jean jacket if I’m feeling dressy.
Anon
That’s exactly what they are for.
Anonymous
I find them terrible to run in and honestly cannot imagine what type of runner could actually wear them. I have two styles and neither has great support and both have a bunch of heel slippage. But, I do like them for wearing around casually.
edj3
And I love running in mine!
Anon
How much do you run in a typical month?
BaltAnon
Crowdsourcing law firm questions: does your firm have an alternative track for attorneys who aren’t interested in partnership? What does it look like? Or if you could design it, what would it look like? We are thinking of establishing one in my mid-size firm and I thought this forum would be a great place to collect some thoughts. We are doing lots of other research too, but I know there are lots of experiences here that could be helpful. We’re your typical law firm model, salaried associates, minimum billable hour requirement, bonuses offered if minimum hours are met.
Cat
Are you talking about an alternate track for associates, or long-term retention of folks who like firm life but don’t want the associated client development expectations?
If the former, I’ve seen the associates in question get really frustrated when they’re essentially expected to have the same skill set as ‘regular’ associates, just get paid less. You might be better off trying to find good paralegals.
KS IT Chick
Doing the thing …
Last night, I finished our taxes and filed. Both federal and state returns have been accepted.
Now I need to finish the embroidery project I started for a coworker who is going on maternity leave and get it mailed out. Since she is scheduled for a C-section on Monday.
here she goes
ugh taxes are my thing I need to do right now. I said I was going to do them yesterday and kicked it out.
anon
White oxfords for office wear: thoughts? I found a good deal on a leather pair that I’m thinking about for my spring/summer wardrobe. I get cold feet and prefer to stay away from sandals for the office.
Anonymous
Why not? They sound like a good solution for you. It’s hard to tell from your post what is making you hesitate and want to gather other people’s opinions. Is there something about the style, or color that has you questioning yourself?
anon
Because it’s a lot of look and I have typically stayed away from white shoes in a professional environment, as I feel like they can read too … something. IDK. It’s probably all in my head. Or I have trauma from my size 11 feet looking like boats in white shoes, haha.
Senior Attorney
I love white shoes in summer. I vote “yes!”
amberwitch
Sounds great, I’d love a pair, so please share:-)
Anonymous
Super cute with a midi dress or ankle length pants. I’ve never owned a pair. But now I’m realizing that I probably would get a TON of use. Seems like a good option when you don’t want to wear a sandal (need something more formal, want a close toe to hide an old pedi, are going to be doing a ton of walking or walking on grimy city streets, etc.)
Anon
General dating lament ahead.
I put myself back on a dating app over the weekend. Having a partner has always been an eh, maybe I’ll get around to it some day, Im pretty happy solo. But Ill be 30 later this year and currently have no interest in children.
I was on another app in 2019ish, and this week has been a nice reminder why the experience can feel like a drag, and how much time and energy it seems to take.
I have a date lined up for this evening and another one for late Sunday morning.
I feel like it hit it off with guys pretty well, but then I lose interest when the relationship gets to the stage of seeing each other and talking regularly.
My bff and I talk atleast once a day and I talk to each of my family members once a week. But a guy Ive texted and met maybe once or twice is too much? Will there ever be a guy that comes along where it doesnt feel like extra work?
Maybe I am just happier solo, where I dont have to carve out time and space for another person.
Anon
After years (like 15 of them) online dating, I’m also coming to the conclusion that a) Online dating is horrible and not worth it and b) I’m not sure I want to make space in my life for another partner, even though I feel like I should. So I sympathize. It’s really, really awful.
Anon
It sucks until it doesn’t. Yes, you absolutely could meet someone you cannot wait to hear from and can’t live without.
Anon
Re frame this in your mind: you are finding out early in the relationship that he isn’t the right one for you, and that’s a good thing!
Maybe there isn’t the “right one” out there, with whom you are happier together than single. That’s okay! Maybe there is, and you will be the type to figure it out really quickly and won’t be stuck in a multi-year, dead-end relationship when you meet him.
anon
Just here to sympathize and empathize that online dating sucks. I hate it so much.
NW Islander
Given your age and disinterest in children, you can certainly afford to take a break from dating and focus on things that excite you more! That is what I did for most of my 30s. If I could do it again, I would make more regular efforts to date before my late 30s because it does get harder and the pool gets smaller thereafter – at least in my experience.
I want to tell you that I am early 40s and every single guy felt like extra work until I met my current boyfriend at 42. He actually *is* extra work in certain respects (we live further away than ideal), but I don’t blink an eye because he is so amazing and I’m so thrilled and grateful to be with him.
anon
I often felt the same way, and the answer for me was meeting guys through shared activities or work vs on the apps with the intent of dating. It just felt easier when we met as friends.
anon
Also, I should add – based on my experience, I feel like there are people for whom app-mediated relationships just don’t work well. There’s nothing wrong with you if that way of meeting people doesn’t help you to forge meaningful connections.
anon
The last four people I dated I met in real life and none of those worked out either! Three cases the dude ended it for reasons related to emotional unavailability even though we talked clearly about what we each wanted and I was not the one pushing things along, and the other who is a lovely person where the physical attraction never grew (we are still friends)
Dating in your 40s just plain sucks.
Anon
Online dating sucks until it doesn’t. I met my husband on an app in my late 30s after ending a long term relationship at 32. For most of 32-35, I focused on me and enjoyed having the freedom to do whatever I wanted without commitment! I tried new hobbies and found an activity I’ve become very passionate about and can’t imagine living without. So yes, please give yourself a break if it’s what you need!
My tips:
1) Don’t exchange cell numbers until after a successful date 1
2) After matching, minimize the back and forth chatting. Quickly schedule a call through the app (video/phone) to see if he can hold a conversation. Sometimes there’s no chemistry outside of texting.
3) Schedule a date relatively quickly to again, minimize back and forth. Feel free to make excuses about being busy at work but emphasize you’re looking forward to the date. I’ve found, personally and with friends, that too much initial texting creates a sense of false intimacy. Then getting ghosted hurts even worse when the reality doesn’t live up to the anticipation.
4) Date multiple people! Don’t put all your eggs in 1 basket. I met my husband after a particularly diasterous first date, but luckily I had another first date scheduled for the following night.
5) Take breaks as needed. Dating is definitely work!
Anon
He/she*…he in my case!
Anon
I online dated for essentially 4 years. Of those, sooooo many dates sucked and 2 didn’t. One became a 6 month relationship that ultimately ended, one is now my husband. Both first dates felt special and fun.
Anon
Some things that made it less brutal for me:
1) only go on first dates with people you’re super excited about
2) only go on second dates if the first date was great
3) propose dates you’re excited about – trying a restaurant you’ve been wanting to or going on a new hike. that way it’s about the activity as much as the person
4) make it an event! get cute beforehand, do a face mask, listen to music. i have great memories of the feeling of getting ready for first dates and all the excitement that could potentially be in store.
Anon
#3 is a great tip!
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