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Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Gomez Ruffle Print Shirt

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A woman wearing a ruffle-front ivory printed top and tailored denim pants

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Veronica Beard is the brand that comes up most frequently when my C-suite friends are chatting about workwear. The styles are gorgeous and the fit is top-notch. I love this ruffled blouse for adding a touch of whimsy to an otherwise buttoned-up look.

Pair it with trousers and a great blazer and you’ve got a look that can go just about anywhere.

The top is $398 at Nordstrom and comes in sizes 00-16. 

Sales of note for 4/24:

284 Comments

  1. Random observation: I think that the brow serum is actually working in my patchy brows.
    I’m used to everything being overhyped snake oil.

    2. I have been using castor oil on my lashes and eyebrows for a few months and it is working surprisingly well. I like that it is not a natural option and much less expensive than the serums I have tried.

        1. It doesn’t smell fishy at all, in fact it doesn’t have a strong smell at all especially when you are using such a small amount just for eyelashes and brows. I do like the Sky Organics eyelash serum. I really have noticed a difference especially in my eye lashes.

    3. Just a PSA, it’s probably fine but some of those prostaglandin-containing products can cause permanent orbital fat loss.

  2. Does anyone have experience with SBA loans? DH and I are considering buying the business he currently works for but have never done something like this. Any tips or things to know about the process?

    1. See below – You are going to have to give a personal guaranty. There may be ways to set yourself up to be less vulnerable. Of course I wish you well, but there is always a risk in such transactions.

      1. We just finally signed for our SBA loan last month. start up, not an existing business. But yes, a personal guarantee is required. We were required (ish) to list our house as collateral – which we were comfortable with because, barring a full on stock market crash, we have other assets we would liquidate if needed and save our home.

        The process took around 6 months (gvt shutdown in the middle didn’t help), although there were some complexities with a startup that wouldn’t apply to your situation. You should shop banks for the best rate and to make sure you’re happy with the terms, it will be Prime + x, and you will get some minor variation in the x. You will have to fill out the same forms in slightly different formats for each bank, which is a pain, but once you’ve compiled all the documentation it’s just a matter of putting numbers in the correct boxes.

        Our loan officer advised writing a cover letter / business case narrative to help “sell” to the underwriters, but that may not be necessary with an existing business where you already have data on revenue and profitability.

  3. I read on a Sezane BST list I’m on that a person had spent a lot of time over the winter in leather shorts with tights. I think that group may skew overseas but is that a current look? I did that in the 90s (pleated lined suede Bermuda length shorts that were impervious to spilled beer, bought at Marshall’s).

      1. Then? Small town girl at small town college, so clubbing was aspirational. Cheap canned beer and nachos with friends? That was my club :)

        1. I’m assuming black leather shorts with black tights and . . . loafers? Flat shoes? I have not seen this look in the wild.

          I did: cognac suede, fisherman’s sweater, cream tights to match sweater, cognac kiltie loafers. Probably with a headband. I could go to a bar or teach Sunday school. Versatile. Comfortable even. The shorts had pockets.

    3. I think yes – the younger gals are used to skorts so it isn’t that far a leap from skirt and tights to shorts and tights

  4. You’re going to have to give a personal guarantee, so have your ducks in a row and understand the risk.

      1. Only those brave enough to rock leather shorts are brave enough to take out an SBA Loan to buy a small business.

      6. OP – Ha! Just seeing my nesting fail. it was early and I was in a hurry. Your quip made me snicker out loud

      9. Since this is not a look I like, I’m fine with the high bar requirement to rock it.

  5. I believe my skin would really, really benefit from a laser treatment but some of the comments I’ve seen here (not nasty ones – just truthful – about the smell and feel) have me second guessing myself. I’m terribly squeamish – literally can feel faint and nauseous when people describe medical scenarios. Would taking a valium help? I remember being prescribed a single dose ahead of my IVF procedure many years ago, and thinking “is this how non-highly anxious people feel all the time? Cool!”. Can/would a medspa prescribe a valium pill ahead of a laser?

    2. It kind of sounds like you already know that valium calms you down in advance of medical procedures? I believe that prescribing valium requires being licensed with the DEA, so it probably depends if the medspa is licensed.

      If valium makes you feel normal and not sedated, I wonder, do you have a medical issue causing low GABA at baseline? (Do you currently feel highly anxious all of the time?) Sometimes this is a symptom of something treatable.

      1. I would say I am a highly anxious person most of the time and am on a low dose of an anxiety med that helps with the day to day stuff. Medical stuff just sends me, however, to the point that I will actually shake during medical procedures. I’ve only had the valium once and from what I recalled, it made me calm, then sleepy. Not sure about the low GABA (had to google) but I’m supposed to be supplementing B12 (am pretty bad about it) so it’s possible that would help.

        1. I think odds are that you’ll have to ask your regular doctor about a pre-procedure benzo. They’re (usually) used to prescribing one-offs for things like flight anxiety, public speaking anxiety, so it’s not a huge ask (unless they’re against the whole drug class categorically or also not set up for controlled med prescribing). It could be an opportunity to discuss how things are going with the B12 and whatever condition means you need it!

          I know people on plant-based diets are supposed to supplement daily with cyanocobalamin or hydroxocobalamin; supplementing methylcobalamin alone is not always enough for B12 related anxiety. People who need B12 for other reasons sometimes need to switch from supplements to injections if they’re getting psychiatric symptoms. So sometimes there’s some troubleshooting that’s worth pursuing.

          I personally did not need benzos anymore once I was on a weekly shot, but for a while I still carried a one-off Xanax around “just in case” I needed it, until it had been so long that I forgot which bag it was in! It was kind of nice having it as a back up plan though.

        2. If you are supposed to be supplementing B12, get on top of that. Why so hard? Why not just take it at the same time as your anxiety med? Get a pill box and put your meds/vitamins in it every Sunday for the whole week to make sure you take it.

          I say this because I have several friends (mostly vegan/vegetarians but also a friend who just had terrible eating habits) who were B12 deficient with symptoms and one was nursing at the time and both she and her infant baby developed severe symptoms. B12 deficiency can cause a lot of problems and also could be contributing to your anxiety.

        1. Don’t do it for the first time before the procedure. If you are going to try this as a solution, start first on an evening or weekend day when you don’t have anywhere to be. Everyone reacts differently!

          1. Yep, OP should specifically look for a gummy with an Indica hybrid, or one that is labeled “sleep” or “calm.” No Sativa for someone already struggling with anxiety (ask me how I know.)

        2. Omg – definitely try beforehand. I am fine in medical situations and have done laser work and it was fine, but if i was high…nope. Too weird. I would spiral.

    4. You could also see if your dermatologist offers nitrous oxide aka “laughing gas” during procedures. It’s very calming and has a super short half-life, so you’re ok to drive yourself home, which isn’t usually the case for valium.

      1. Unfortunately nitrous oxide is contraindicated for B12 deficiency patients (it neutralizes B12 and also masks deficiency on labs so it can cause a lot of issues for people).

  6. I have transitioned from mostly sedentary (WFH job) to gym 3x a week and actually enjoy going now! I feel sluggish if I don’t go.

    Other than obvious benefits (good for your health, weight loss if that’s your goal, etc) what motivates you to exercise? Are there other lesser known benefits you’ve found?

    1. I have lupus and hot yoga is honestly the best thing for it. It’s been impossible to get to a class the last 6 months and I really do feel it.

    2. My skin has more natural glow when I’m working out consistently.

      (I’m in a huge rut at the moment. I recently quit Orange Theory and haven’t found anything to replace it yet.)

    3. I found friends! If I keep to a regular schedule, I always end up meeting someone who ends up as an outer circle to closest circle friend.

    4. It undoes the posture damage and neck strain from a computer job. Motion is motion, as my PT friends say.

    5. For me, the mental health benefits are almost worth more than the physical health benefits. I have a job that can be incredibly frustrating and exercising keeps me from ruminating, helps me sleep better, be more present with my family, etc.

      1. Sleep, for me, is the best positive externality from exercise. I don’t struggle to fall asleep the same way, and my sleep feels more restful when I am exercising regularly. My mood, too, is improved, and that’s probably also inextricable from sleep.

    6. It’s fun! I’m still competing in all 3 sports I played in high school 15 years ago (soccer, running, rowing – I then continued rowing D1). I love these sports – I truly feel alive on the river or soccer field, I have made friends with my teammates, competition is fun and healthy for me, I push myself harder in a sport than I would just in the gym, and sports are my main hobby. I feel so connected to myself continuing to play the sports I loved as a child and college student.

      I supplement with strength training and yoga because I know it helps my other sports.

      I also love that it keeps me fit enough that I can dabble in other activities (skiing, surfing, hiking, biking, racquet sports) and hop right in without worrying about keeping up or getting hurt.

      1. +1 to feeling alive. I went through a very hard family time in the last few years and paddling through a class IV rapid in an inflatable kayak made me feel strong and like myself again.

    7. You can say yes to opportunities, like getting invited for a ski day, and have a reasonable expectation that you’ll have fun. Not being able to exercise as much because I’m sick constantly has been a hard part of adjusting to motherhood! It’s not time or priorities, it’s literally just being sick all the time.

    8. I like to be challenged and to push myself physically. It’s good to be reminded that I can do hard things.

      I don’t think this is a lesser-known benefit in 2026, but it’s also hugely helpful for my mental health. I’m 95% sure I would be on anxiety medication by now if I didn’t work out and keep the rest of my self care (sleep, screen time, etc.) dialed.

      1. Yes, I love the challenge and knowledge that I can do hard things… so now I’m hooked on trail ultras

        1. Ha, my hat is off to you! I discovered that my body wouldn’t consistently hold up to the pounding required for marathon training, so I checked the box and am now sticking to shorter distances. I just try to run fast enough that they’re still challenging ;)

          I also picked horseback riding back up, which is hard mentally, emotionally, and physically.

    9. Empty nester here, and my kids are all very into fitness. One was a D1 athlete, another was a D3 athlete, and both still lift a lot, so it gives me something to talk to them about. They at least purport to be impressed when I tell them what I’m lifting. Another is that I just feel stronger in my daily life. Need some furniture moved? HMU.

    10. More energy to do random things, even if it’s just running errands and doing chores. Having the energy to do stuff makes all of those things a smaller task than when I’m feeling sluggish, where each thing is a huge effort.

    12. I am a reluctant exerciser, but one thing that motivates me is that it gives me an activity to do instead of scrolling and makes me more mindful and intentional of how I’m spending my time.

      1. That’s one of the ways I talk myself into exercise when I’m not feeling it – I usually feel like crap after spending time rotting in front of a screen, but I always feel better after some kind of exercise.

        1. +1000. That sluggish, blah feeling you have when getting off the couch after an hour of doomscrolling is the opposite of how you feel after an hour of swimming in the ocean.

          2. Or 20 minutes of YouTube yoga, for those of us who are not so geographically blessed 😂

          3. It doesn’t have to be swimming in the ocean. It can be Nordic skiing, running, swimming in a lake, etc.

          4. …wondering if the weekend rain has broken up the ice enough for an hour of lake swimming…

    14. I lift weights so that when someone says “careful, that’s heavy” about a box or something, I can pick it up like it’s nothing.

    15. I am >50 and started strength training in my late 40s. I think I have fewer aches and pains than others in my age range mention and get injured less. I like to be able to comfortably walk or hike a fair distance and pick up really heavy things. I love when the grocery bagger asks if I need help to my car and I can not only say no but also carry all my bags in one hand to the parking lot.

      1. It also helps my mental health (not super anxious anyway but definitely addresses this) and acuity and it also helps me sleep.

    16. I agree that the mental health and sleep benefits are amazing by themselves.

      As someone who is not athletic and bad at every sport, it has been very cool to be able to achieve things for the first time in my late 30s. I can run faster than ever. I am stronger than ever. It’s great!

      I also like the way I look. My face looks better. My arms and legs are looking more toned. I don’t have dark circles under my eyes because I sleep better. It’s awesome.

    17. The mental health benefit is so real. A big part of that for me is that much of my work-work is abstract and intangible, working bit by bit towards goals that will be realized many months or years from now. With working out, I can point to an actual, concrete accomplishment and actual, concrete progress — last month I deadlifted X weight, today I deadlifted X + 5 weight. I never realized how much I needed that until exercise provided it.

    18. Mental health is the biggest reason I exercise consistently. I need heart rate raising hard exercise regularly or else my anxiety flares up. Exercise is the only thing that has kept me sane and from going on meds. If I go more than a day or two without working out, I start to feel the irritability and anxiety creep up.

      I also like feeling strong and healthy. I’ve had to bust out into a run to get somewhere when I’m late and am not winded, which is great. I like being able to carry heavy groceries and climb several flights of stairs with no/little effort.

      Lastly, I like the social aspect and accountability of group classes. I like having an appointment for my Pilates class on a weekly basis to get out and see people who aren’t my family or coworkers.

    19. I am convinced that walking is better than running. Easier on the joints, a natural everyday motion, and it doesn’t lead to the post-run hunger spike. Extra bonus points if you can work in some gentle hills. Lots of research on this.

      So, how I motivate myself to get a good walk in is having a dog who NEEDS to go on a long walk every day. One of the best decisions for my own health I ever made was adopting her. <3

  7. Anyone here with melasma? I had some spots while pregnant a decade ago but now in peri it’s coming back. Anyone have a good tinted sunscreen with titanium oxide or whatever? (Tinted especially supposed to be good for melasma?)

    2. Supergoop Protectint is a hybrid sunscreen. I don’t think it has titanium dioxide, but it comes in at least a dozen shades unlike many tinted sunscreens – making it easier to find a good match.

    3. It’s going to come back?! Ugh, I had such bad melasma in pregnancy. My derm offered treatment if it didn’t fade but it did eventually. Can you see if the derm can offer aything?

      1. they’re going to start me on a compounded cream – tretinoin and something else that i should use for 3 months and then take a break and go back to regular tretinoin. i’m blanking on what.

    4. I use bliss’s ‘block star’ daily and it fits this description. I also like it’s relatively in-expensive compared to other similar sunscreens.

    6. Ten years in and finally having some success.

      Mornings: Start with a Vitamin C serum (I use skinceuticals). Let it dry. Then, one layer of Elta-md sunscreen (straight up zinc oxide) with a layer of Elta-md tinted sunscreen over it. Then, a layer of foundation. Every day, first thing. Lasers were not successful for me. Hydroquinone (Tri-luma) worked, but I’m scared of it. Good luck!

  8. I have a serious chronic health condition that is incompatible with my current Director level job. High stress levels cause flares, which causes serious pain and can impair my ability to walk and perform other basic life tasks. My current role is very stressful (albeit for no good reason, and the role would be fine if we were a functional organization).

    I am in talks regarding taking a step back, either to an IC role or to a manger role (both in another line of business). Any tips on how to do this without torpedoing my career? I continue to hope that someday I will have more capacity, but that day is not today.

      1. Same company but from a central function to operations. Eg, HR to teapot manufacturing

    2. Your stress isn’t going to magically change because you change roles. If anything going to a lower level just adds stress because more is out of your control. The only way to manage this is to figure out your internal self and stop internalizing your organization’s stress. You have a job, do your job well, if you get fired or the company fails, you’ll get another one. Don’t take home their problems.

      1. eh, I disagree with this. While you do get a bit more control, middle management gets it from both sides – there is def stress to managing a team (both on managing the low-performer side and worrying about retention and growth for high performers) that you avoid as an IC.

        2. Your situation does matter. Changing your situation can improve your life. It’s called problem-solving.

        3. But she’s trying to go from a VP role to middle management, that’s exactly the problem.

          1. Depends on her title structure. At mine, people managers in middle management are directors, as she currently is. Managers are product managers – ICs with a higher title – not people managers.

    3. Perhaps this is a controversial take, but I would take this one step at a time. For now, your priority is finding a job that matches your current capacity. Do that. Do it well. If, several years from now, you think you’re in a place to take on more, then focus on rebuilding toward that.

      Your director-level experience doesn’t just suddenly leave your body because you’re doing something else for awhile. I’m sensing that you’re feeling some shame about taking a different path right now that you see as “lesser.” You’re not. You’re being smart.

      1. Wow I didn’t know I needed to hear that last paragraph but I really did. Thank you.

        1. You’re welcome. Health and wellbeing comes first. As long as you have a job that is meeting your needs, you are winning!

    4. Does your firm offer any accommodations? Not “are they legally obligated to” but “in practice, will they”?

    5. At a webinar on women’s leadership recently, a partner at a big firm talked about a moment of change in her career. She had just had a baby and was in a travel-heavy role. She talked to the other partners and told them this was no longer doable for her. Luckily, it was a big firm and they were sympathetic and wanted to keep her. They found her a new non-travel role in another department. They had to look around for this opportunity. They didn’t even know this other department was growing, but they cared enough to inquire. But being honest about her limitations allowed her to continue her career at the firm, and it was a win overall. I found it encouraging to hear about a woman who didn’t just “suck it up” but was honest about needing to change her situation. I hope you can find a similar path.

    6. Some law firms and corporations are piloting Returners programs, for people who took time out of the workforce (typically for kids or to take care of aging parents), and are ready to come back. Recognizing these shifts is the way of the future! And honestly whether it torpedoes your career or not, you need to make this change so you don’t torpedoe your life – take the time and get better and come back when you’re ready with a great story to tell about having the courage to take a risk and bet on yourself

    7. I’ve seen people do this successfully at my company, but it’s typically going from a director/above role to a SME IC role. Personally I’d question how much less stress you’ll feel if you’re still middle mgmt/managing people. I think that just exposes you to a lot more of the politics, etc. AND clearly going to a non-managerial role reads as more of a choice-shift than a demotion-shift.

  9. I’m never sure what to do with the strings in tops like this. Should they always dangle freely? If you tie them, do you tie them all the way up in a bow or just sort of loose and casual? Does the addition of a blazer make a difference in the tying vs not tying decision? (Yes, I am probably overthinking this . . .)

    1. I do either untied, or a loose bow. Tightly tied at the neck is too frilly-fussy for my vibe.

  10. If anyone has a good travel agency for planning in-city trips to Rome, please send me contact info. Need to plan an itinerary asap for next month.

    1. How long is the trip and what are the ages of your group? I’m happy to share the itinerary from my recent trip if you just need recommendations, rather than someone to book everything for you.

      1. 5 days; 1 adult and two teens. It’s more coordinating transportation and booking tickets for the good tours / times of day and making sure we can have good food options and know how to handle how timed tickets (or whatever it is now) work at Spanish Steps / Trevi Fountain.

    3. First (as someone who spent a spring break in Rome with a teen), I absolutely agree that a travel agent is completely unnecessary. Book your transport with Stefano’s Roma Cabs (Rome is a city where I do recommend booking a driver in advance, especially with teens or older adults). Decide what you really want to see and book those tickets through a guide (it is probably too late to book direct). I find Viator to be massively overpriced compared to the excursions tab of Airbnb or GetYourGuide, but it is certainly convenient.

      I love Rome and hope you have a great time.

      If you really want someone to assist, Tess at Clam Tours in Rome is amazing but she is also VERY expensive. That said, if you want to splurge on a private walking tour, she is excellent. They also offer a concierge service that will help with transport to and from the airport and restaurant and lodging recommendations.

  11. How can I signal a more executive presence at a very casual manufacturing company, where the general expectation for management is navy and gray company branded polos and jeans?

    Some background: We have a new (post-acquisition) CEO who has been having me to a do a lot of strategic work directly coordinating with him and also more customer facing. He is framing this specifically as for development / succession planning. He’s from the east coast (we are mountain west) and significantly more professionally dressed than our norm. I was previously in a very tech focused, hands-on role, and I’m feeling a little casual / under-dressed. We are also in-person at a manufacturing facility, so I’m pretty constrained in what I can do. Think like hair up, pants covering the ankle, closed toed shoes. I’m feeling at a loss of where to start – I’ve never really needed to dress “professionally” in my life.

    2. On this particularly blouse, if I knew I’d never want the ties to narrow down the neckline, I’d probably just cut them off (or have them removed). I don’t like them with all the ruffles.

      Otherwise, hanging down, or loosely tied.

    3. Learn some polished “hair up” styles vs. throwing it back in a pony or claw clip?
      Agreed with the advice to pick up a blazer.
      Trouser style jeans.

    4. A great pair of Chelsea boots with a 2in heel (or there abouts) always makes me feel kick@ss. It’d the perfect accessory to a pair of jeans

    5. Agree with the blazer suggestions, but also – if logo polo shirts are the norm, could you potentially get a logo-ed oxford cloth shirt?

    6. You may already realize this, but make sure your car is kept clean and in good condition. It doesn’t need to be new, but it needs to be reliable, free of cosmetic damage, clean inside and out, and uncluttered. A number of people of both genders at my manufacturing company have fallen afoul of this and while it’s not discrediting, it hurts their internal reputation.

      2. Do people pay attention to this?

        I could see how if the car is very dirty or dinged on the outside, it would not create a great image – but I also live in a state with significant snow and I have a long commute, and my car will be covered in highway salt and mud to some extent during winter. Not going to hit the car wash every day.

        But clean inside? Are you looking into other people’s cars? I know I’m not.
        Maybe if clients or management ride along that would be an issue, but I assume you’re not speaking of people taking clients to some appointments in their trashed car?

        Do I judge someone who gives me a ride if the interior looks and smells like a trash can? Sure. But what people do in their cars is their thing, as long as it doesn’t create a safety issue.

      3. I think this only matters if your car is relevant to the job (like, you are ferrying colleagues around or pulling up to job sites in it). Just a commuter? This is overkill. And I say this as having both small blue collar factory shop experience, and PE/finance experience. Cars are more for signaling how bougie and high maintenance your are, not for determining how professionally serious your colleagues view you.

    7. Grooming and tailoring. Manicured nails, makeup, a good haircut and color, a neat updo instead of a ponytail when you need to have your hair up. Jeans in a current style that fit well and are hemmed to just the right length. Get the polo in a women’s cut or at least wear it fitted instead of loose and sloppy. When I had to wear a men’s polo I thought wearing a thin knit cami underneath made it look more polished. If you wear glasses, make sure the style is current with a slight edge.

    8. Can you wear a real pantsuit or trousers + blazer instead of jeans + polo when the CEO is in town?

    9. Sounds like you’re getting some exciting opportunities! Agreed on the blazer and trouser jeans rec. Do you wear makeup/jewelry? A little bit of lip color and earrings make an impact. You probably can’t wear anything that dangles but studs and huggies count.

      For shoes: I’ve not purchased from here personally, but I’ve heard good things: https://xenaworkwear.com/

      1. I have purchased and the xena booties and really like them. Their booties in particular are super helpful. I wear them when I need to wear dress pants for meetings at manufacturing plants that include factory floor discussions.

      2. As someone who occasionally does walkthroughs on the shop floor, definitely wear flat boots that are comfortable for several hours of standing or walking. Make sure your pants and blazer have enough give that you can bend and crouch comfortably. This crowd won’t care about wardrobe variety so pick a color palette and buy items that all mix and match.

      3. I bought these and they’re really good quality. Mine were slightly too small and I regret not returning them for the correct size. They’ve lasted 5 years and going strong with regular polishing etc. Would absolutely buy them again.

    10. I would remember that you are representing a mountain west manufacturing company, and by that token you probably should be a little more casual than some of the customers and maybe even the east coast CEO. I’ve worked in similar places, and wearing nice jeans or “tech pants” with a blouse or a shell + blazer should be formal enough while still accurately representing your company. Remember, if you’re uncomfortable in the clothes your body language changes and you don’t end up making a good impression, so being comfortable with and in your outfit is vital.

      1. To build on this, I think what you would like to project is adaptability.

        Meeting higher ups or managers on the manufacturing floor? Nice jeans/tech pants with boots with a shell and blazer, understated jewelry to show you are bridging between C-level and workers.

        Going to dinner, corporate strategy meetings or town halls with your CEO? Level up and swap the jeans with pants coordinating with your blazer, wear pumps or loafers instead of boots, and maybe wear some more interesting jewelry. Same with makeup.

        I’d also look at concepts like “column of color”, which makes changing from technical bottoms to something more elevated a bit easier.

  12. How do know when men are being gross or if you’re just on edge and creeped out by harmless behavior? I had two incidents recently.

    During the first a young guy was seated next to me on a plane. Maybe late teens or early twenties. He had some kind of pillow over his lap that he was playing with in a way that looked obscene enough to make me very uncomfortable. Just like grabbing it and pulling at it aggressively and increasingly quickly. He wasn’t touching himself, I don’t think, but he was touching it as if it was himself if that makes sense? Like there is no universe where this is normal behavior but is it over the line? To complicate matters I thought maybe this was some kind of fidgeting coping mechanism? It wasn’t a normal way to use a pillow, but I think it would have been less upsetting if it wasn’t over his lap? I opted to say nothing and try to ignore it.

    Last week I was in the phone with tech support for my job and the man helping me would breathe extremely heavily every time we weren’t actually talking. It totally grossed me out and reminded me of a creepy phone call. Probably just a respiratory condition. He wasn’t otherwise inappropriate, but was condescending enough for me to consider he had bad motives. I think I could have found a polite way to ask him to mute himself but I was just too annoyed at the whole situation to do anything but ignore him.

    There’s totally harmless explanations for both of these and all things considered don’t want to make something gross when it isn’t. But I do feel kind of guilty that because I chose to ignore this behavior. What would you have done?

    1. If anything other than a very short flight, I might get up to use the restroom and ask an attendant if they can calm down his borderline obscene antics.

      For the mouth breather, ignore or tell him his connection is filled with interference?

    2. Whoa you are definitely overreacting to both of these situations. The guy sitting next to you on the plane clearly had some anxiety about flying and may have had a mental disability, and clutching a pillow was his coping mechanism. Unless he was grabbing his cr0tch, or his pillow was some kind of doll and he was grabbing the doll’s cr0tch, I don’t see what the issue is. Put on your headphones and mind your own business.

      The tech guy breathing heavily may have had a respiratory issue like you said. If you were truly uncomfortable you could have ended the call at any point and called again to get another person to help you. If you go through life being this sensitive to everything you are going to be a very unhappy person.

      1. Yeah, none of these things read as alarming to me, and I think it’s more reflective of your mindset. Which is totally understandable, given the conditions of society we operate under and possibly your own lives experience, so don’t think I’m trying to callously tell you to grow a thicker skin. But maybe be aware of what’s shaping these perceptions. I have friends who are sensitive because they’ve been abused and they’ve needed to seek therapy about it and curate good platonic relationships men. Other friends needed to stop listening to true crime podcasts. Another realized she was in a toxic workplace and got a new job.

      4. I wouldn’t get into a habit of making excuses for men. It’s okay to give benefit of the doubt if we’re judging people’s souls, but it’s also okay to avoid people we’re not sure about. If we shame ourselves for having concerns and tell ourselves stories where they’re fine and we’re the bad guy, I really think we will eventually ignore red flags we shouldn’t have. Men with mental disabilities aren’t therefore safe men, etc.

        1. +1 agree completely. There’s a reason this woman’s spidey senses went off and it’s important not to ignore red flags. Obviously you don’t call the cops immediately when you remain unsure or there isn’t sufficient evidence, but you certainly stay alert and figure out what to do. I also agree that you can absolutely have anxiety/mental illness and be a predator and it would be dangerous to think otherwise.

      5. If I was sitting next to a man who was increasingly and rapidly moving a pillow on his lap, I would not assume it was for anxiety purposes. That sounds very suspect.

      6. your description of the young man with the pillow was hard to read — i’m mom to an autistic son and if he were well enough to go on a plane by himself but needed a coping mechanism like a fidget blanket I’d be so proud of him. sorry he was disabled in public.

        1. These responses (probably all from one person) saying that OP wasn’t allowing men to be disabled in public are so gross. I believe her that something was off in the scenarios she described. Women have evolved over millennia to detect even subtle threats from men and that awareness should never be blindly discounted.

          1. I find assumptions that all men are suspect gross. The OP rightly minded her own business.

          2. I commented at 12:54 but not elsewhere – I didn’t say she couldn’t ask to be moved. Women should always prioritize their own safety. But I think you need to understand there’s a high probability you’re being ableist (or racist or whatever).

          2. So I should make excuses for autistic men but not for overly sensitive women, if I’m following here?

          3. There’s simply nothing to excuse on anyone’s part here. Everyone is fine. It is fine for these men to exist in this way. It is fine for her to be on guard. It would not be fine for her to say something when they are not doing anything wrong.

    3. Listen to your gut. When it’s men, there’s always a chance it really is the bad explanation. Sexual assault is rampant on flights, unfortunately.

        1. Please point me to the evidence that women and men commit sexual assault on planes (or anywhere) at equal rates. “Not all men,” sure – “but always a man.”

          1. He touched neither her nor himself. This is a weird take based on how she’s describing the scenario.

    4. The first person sounds either like an anxious flyer or an autistic person (or both).

      The second person sounds like they have a bad mike or a lung condition.

      I would not have said anything in either circumstance, and I think it is good you didn’t either. Men are permitted to have health issues or anxiety disorders in your presence.

      1. It’s not an either/or though, since people specifically take advantage of sympathy and allowances for things like anxiety, autism, and health issues even when the latter are real!

        1. Yeah. We make allowances for these things because they are real. What’s your point?

          1. My point is that someone could still be being a creep, especially if someone has had caretakers running around making excuses for them for years.

          3. Yes, but it’s okay to err on the side of caution if it’s not clear what’s going on. Planes are tough since you can’t get up and switch seats easily. But people shouldn’t hesitate to get up and relocate if someone is making them uncomfortable. It’s not a cruel or hostile thing to do, and it’s not ableist. Heck if OP herself were autistic or anxious that could explain being overly sensitive and uncertain about their read of these scenarios. So I think it’s silly to start to worry about who is having anxiety or autism and therefore gets a pass.

    5. From what you describe here these both would have made me uncomfortable, especially the airplane incident.

    6. Creeps trade on the unwillingness of others to make a scene. The pillow thing would have creeped me out and I might have gotten up to try and talk to the flight attendants about it. Pushing the call bell might have made a guy like that really defensive and/or he’d claim he hadn’t been doing anything.

      The breath thing seems harmless to me – headsets, etc. can screw up sound quality and he was probably unaware of it. If you get him again and it’s happening, maybe a polite request would work to stop it.

      1. “Creeps trade on the unwillingness of others to make a scene.” – +100 and it’s also part of the thrill for them to make a woman uncomfortable and yet silent.

      2. Of course he would have been defensive, because he actually wasn’t doing anything that a flight attendant would/could do anything about. You would have been making a scene.

        1. If some guy I’m sitting next to in a public place is “grabbing it and pulling at it aggressively and increasingly quickly,” and “it” = something over his lap, I would find that behavior uncomfortable, especially being wedged next to him on a plane. It could be harmless, but it also could be a prelude to the guy exposing himself, etc.

          Being a middle-aged bat who routinely talks to strangers (much to the mortification of my teenage children), it’s a situation where I also might have looked at the guy and asked him if he was feeling OK, could I help him with something, etc. It could be an unconscious behavior and sometimes people genuinely don’t realize they are bothering others.

          I’ve been in enough planes, subway cars, trains, buses, bus stations, sidewalks to realize that sometimes unusual behavior is just unusual, and sometimes it escalates.

          1. The safest answer to unusual behavior in public places is almost always to move away from the person exhibiting the behavior. I would have asked the flight attendant to reseat me if there were any empty seats anywhere on the plane.

      3. +1 agree on creeps exploiting people’s unwillingness to make a scene.

        OP, I think your spidey sense is working just fine, and your post is a great example of how women are taught to be accommodating and make excuses for creepy experiences . It doesn’t really matter why these two pinged your subconscious. They did, and that’s okay.

        You obviously have compassion for circumstances that can make people seem off for innocent reasons.

        You don’t have to talk yourself into feeling chill or safe if you don’t, though.

        2. +1. I’m surprised at just how many responses are in favor of the possible creeps – giving them the benefit of the doubt and not the OP.

          1. There’s really not much doubt on the second one. It is borderline crazy to assume that heavy breathing in that context is anything other than an equipment issue or breathing difficulties.

          2. People are crazy though. OP said the guy was being condescending, so maybe there were some other weird cues that are hard to articulate that everything wasn’t right. And maybe the odds are low. But the reason there’s doubt is because of the times when we thought it was an equipment issue or breathing difficulty and then things escalated, right?

          3. Things did not escalate this time, though, so this time was not one of those times.

          4. Yes, it’s not one of the times when there’s no doubt. So instead, there is doubt.

          5. For sane people, there is no doubt. Also, it’s a phone call. You’re going to be able to hang up if anything untoward happens. You are entirely in control.

          6. Of course you can just hang up. It’s still nothing anyone wants to experience. I simply don’t have your ability to just know whether someone on the phone is going to cross a line.

    7. I think I would have picked up and been suspicious about both of those situations.

      In the airplane scenario, I probably would have turned to look him straight in the eye, and asked him if he was ok. And then see what happened.

      Heavy breathing on the phone would mean nothing to me in the scenario you mention, as so many people are unhealthy and for all you know the guy talking to you was working from home and talking to you while walking/exercising/ whatever. People do that. But if I sensed it was more than that and he was being inappropriate in his responses I always quickly ask to speak to a supervisor.

  13. I’m newly engaged! My fiancé and I are planning to sit down in a few weeks to hash out all the operational to-dos.

    Any recommendations for things I should add to the list, especially related to pre-nups and wedding planning?

    1. Idk of you’ve already discussed this with your partner, but understand the parts of the wedding that are important to you and be willing to compromise on literally everything else. Maybe you care about having as many people as possible attend, maybe you care about the location, having dancing, whatever. The fewer non-negotiable things you’ve got the easier it will be to plan and execute. Weddings are often expensive for no real reason other than keeping up appearances, but it doesn’t have to be this way if you’re clear about your priorities.

    2. Congratulations!

      Step 1: Figure out your budget and who’s going to finance it. If you have recently married friends see if they’re willing to share their budget. You’d be shocked how expensive certain vendors are.

      Step 2: Come to an agreement on your vision and priorities. Do you want a big or small guest list? Do you care more about the location or maximizing attendance? Which elements are most import to you- food, alcohol, music, decor, or something else?

      Step 3: Divide up responsibilities and decide how your parents will be involved in decision making. Generally the more money you accept from them the more power they have. As a couple is one person going to own each planning category?

      Step 4: Book a venue. You don’t have a date until you have a venue. Then you can start reaching out to other vendors for quotes and availability.

    3. Congratulations! Figuring out the size of your guest list will often narrow down venue options quickly, so think about that early on. Also, think about what is really important to you. Everyone in the wedding industry will act like what they do is critically important, and it is fine if you just don’t care that much about, say, the cake. Ultimately this is a party, and every aspect of it doesn’t have to represent you, your relationship, your life, your future happiness, world peace, etc.

      1. This is a bit dramatic. The prenup may not be valid if they sign it too close to the wedding so it’s smart to think about it now. If one of them owns property or there’s a substantial difference in their assets then a prenup makes sense.

      2. I didn’t get a prenup because “marriage is forever” and we didn’t even make it five years. I’m getting screwed in divorce because, shockingly, we do have a “prenup,” which is the laws of the state we live in. Those laws do a terrible job of accounting for the massive financial sacrifices I made.

        Everyone has a prenup: it’s the laws in your state.

      3. Yeah, I love my BF but we aren’t young and having a contract in place that differs from the default makes much more sense than doing a financial “YOLO, full send!”

        1. This. I am also newly engaged at 41 (he’s 40) and we are both in agreement that we want a prenup. We are committe to each other (been together 5 years, lived together for 4) and share expenses/plan together with separate accounts but full visibility.

          It was not/is not the first thing we thought about, but it IS a conversation we had even before we got engaged as we were talking about things like buying a home together, how we are planning for retirement, etc.

      4. I just come back if you think you need one don’t get married. Live together but don’t entangle.

        1. Everyone has a prenup: It’s the laws of the state you live in. The question is whether you’re both comfortable with what the state will decide for you or if you want to adjust it based on your own financial situation. FWIW I don’t have a prenup because we were fine with our state’s laws but we researched and discussed it.

        2. IANAL, but the civil aspect of marriage is nothing more than an extremely unsentimental contract. It’s probably fine for two young people starting out on equal footing with few assets. For the rest of us, something more refined and done in good faith is better for both partners.

      5. Disagree. Prenup should be a given. If he balks at a prenup, then is a good time to reconsider! Been there done that…

    5. Congrats! The level of operational to-dos can vary tremendously – from an elopement or city hall wedding just you two, to adding a small celebration with close family, to a giant party. First start with the type of event you’re envisioning, check it against your budget (who’s paying, by the way?), and go from there. There is no end to things you can spend money on for a wedding!

    6. Congratulations!!!

      My best advice: when you are thinking about budgeting, understand that time is also a finite asset that needs to be budgeted for. (Yes, you can offload to wedding planners for the price of a used car; no, not everyone wants to add $10k+ to their wedding because it was needlessly complicated.) Let that guide your wedding planning.

      When you think about venues, consider how much you will need to do yourselves versus how much the venue does.

      My reception was at a national historic site that is often used in movies, and the venue did *everything* except for decorations. They had the tables, linens, dishes, chairs; they did setup and tear-down; they set up the dance floor and the acoustics; they have a liquor license; they did bartending and coat check.

      Start a spreadsheet now with everything that you need to buy: dress, tux, veil, rings, marriage license, invitations, stamps for your invitations, cake, decorations, venue fee, food, booze, tip, ceremony location, flowers, shoes, hair and makeup, musician fee, music at the reception, fee for the officiant, etc. Get a very rough estimate for those things.

      On a second spreadsheet, put all of the optional things: a trolley for your guests, calligraphy on envelopes, fun extras, etc. Also get a rough estimate.

      I have a great spreadsheet for estimating venue costs, based on various factors like all-inclusive vs venue cost + food, liquor per drink vs per guest, service fees and such. If you post a burner, I can dig it up and send it to you.

    7. congrats! if you’re not in a rush, highly recommend taking some time to just enjoy being engaged!
      talk about budget & the vision for your wedding. Do you care more about getting your max # of people there (prioritize convenient date + location) or a specific aesthetic (prioritize venue, season) or ? When you think about having ‘your people’ there, is it your close circle of besties and family you’ve spent time with in the last year, or is it bringing together everyone in all of your circles?

      Before you commit to anything, make sure you’re on the same page with how thing will be handled and spent. For me & my now-husband, we roughly divided our $ contributions, we knew I’d be spending more time on wedding stuff so he took on more of the household stuff for that time. We knew I cared more about the colors & decor, he cared more about music, so divided those vendors.

    8. If you want clergy to perform the ceremony, contact them first. I answer the phone at my church and people call up thinking we’re like any other wedding venue whereas we see the service as a sacrament that requires counseling, using our vows, and possibly proving one of you is baptized.

    9. Thanks all, we’ve very excited to get hitched!

      I’m still wrapping my brain around the who/what/when/where/how for the wedding or celebrations. We’ve each got elderly family members in different areas who may be unable to travel, as well as family members who may expect an invite.

      As far as the pre-nup, we’re not planning to get divorced (nobody does) but I’d like to make sure there’s enough time for both of us to look over any agreement with an independent lawyer.

    10. Marriage is a serious contract – make sure you have understood it and its ramifications. You only have to think how complicated it is to divorce and how much that costs, to appreciate this. Of course I say this from almost the other side, and in the UK where laws are different, but it is something I wish I had done differently in painful hindsight.

  14. How do you handle unpleasant one-on-one conversations with your in laws? My friends and I have experienced the same issue. Parent in law waits to bring up a sensitive topic until we’re alone with them, we report it to DH afterward, DH is livid and addresses it with his parent, but it doesn’t sink in and the cycle continues.

    Parent in law usually starts the conversation with a sappy message about how much they care about us so it makes us look like a jerk if we tell them to knock it off. Intentionally cornering us alone is a big part of the problem but of course it’s ridiculous to say “You’re not allowed to talk to my wife alone.”

    1. “I’d prefer not to talk about this right now.”

      I’ve said that to MIL several times. She doesn’t like it but I don’t care. It shuts down the convo and I leave the room. Via text, I just do not respond.

    2. My MIL tried to do this for a while, and I put an end to it by saying “we should really talk about this together with DH” and then getting him or, if he wasn’t there, changing the subject.

    3. I have actually done that. I avoided talking to mil one on one for years. She wasnt welcome in my home without my husband. If I were “cornered” at a social event I’d just say “let me get your son” and walk away. Did it feel incredibly awkward and impolite? Yeah. So uncomfortable. But it worked. Now there’s a what my therapist would call boundaries so we’ve sort of taught her through behavior that this can’t happen. I thought it would end our relationship but it’s actually improved it a lot. We’ll never have the relationship I have with my mom or that my husband has with my mom but that’s ok. She’s my kids grandma and we did what we had to do to keep her in everyone’s life with minimal conflict.

      1. This is kind of me. My in-laws did an intervention-style meeting with me, just me, about “concerns” they had with one of our kids (Ridiculous and overblown, my kid is a great human being). I was absolutely blown away that they cornered and trapped me alone when my DH was in no way going to be available.
        I addressed it with them and so did my DH–and as he said, they didn’t include him because they knew he would have told them to cut it out and walked away–I was in a specific situation where I could not leave.
        Whether they know it or not, our relationship has never fully recovered. It flipped a switch after years of things being fine and I view them completely differently, and even view prior issues through a totally different, less generous lens.
        They continue to be very involved in and present in our lives because they are good grandparents to my kids and my husband is an only child, and I play nice, just not as nice as before.

    4. Yeah, the only way to deal with this is to stop the one-on-one thing. “Hold on, let’s get DH in here for this.” (by phone or in person). Or, “I appreciate you bringing this up. I don’t want anything to get lost in translation, so I would like to make sure DH is here.”

    5. ‘oh, let’s wait until DH can be part of this conversation’ usually shuts it down.

    6. “You know that prefacing this with a “we care” comment doesn’t make me the appropriate audience. We can continue the discussion once you have included your son.” And then walk away. You aren’t their assistant in scheduling talks with their own son, you don’t need to do the work of tracking him down for them.

    7. Same way I handle it with my parents: I leave. If their tactic doesn’t work, they stop trying. Looking like a jerk is on them!

      1. (Not that this needs to be rude; it is fine to say “oh this isn’t a great time to talk about that” or “look at the time” or whatever makes sense in context. But the conversation needs to not happen, or they have every incentive to keep making these conversations happen this way.)

    8. OP here. The responses are all helpful. Going forward I’ll feel less guilty about insisting we pause the conversation until DH can get involved or shutting it down altogether. The person who said I’m incentivizing them to keep approaching me alone is spot on. They think DH is overreacting and they can use their judgment to navigate private conversations, and you’re right that I’m rewarding the behavior.

      1. Is he overreacting? Is this something where there might be more ground gained/understanding by you having the initial conversation without him?

    9. I’m so curious what these topics are. Literally has never happened to me, and my MIL is kind of overbearing!

      1. I agree, it’s hard to know. “Secret” topics with my MIL have ranged from where we’re going on vacation–and is it dangerous, my husband’s weight (obviously I’m not going to run to my husband on this one), if we’re thinking about buying a house. My husband and I are not so much of a unit that I can’t have these conversations without him.

      2. Not the OP. In my family-in-law, this could be anything from trying to get me to commit to spending next Christmas with them when DH has already told them we want one holiday of our very own and spend literally every other with them, to telling them that of course we will renounce our atheistic ways and attend their church membership class that starts next Sunday. Maybe they want me to comfort them that I will quit my Big Job and move to the country next door to them instead of taking that promotion in the city. Or perhaps they are pissed to have overheard me telling my SIL that my IUD is the best thing ever and how DARE I withhold grandchildren from them.

    10. My MIL loved this tactic, but every single time, I’d say something like, “I have to talk to my husband about this issue, we’ll make a decision, thanks for letting me know.” It took a decade or two, but she finally figured out it wouldn’t work.

    11. I just have the conversation. I’m not afraid to hear uncomfortable things and not everything needs to be reported to my spouse.

  15. Does anyone have personal recommendations for puppy socialization classes or puppy kindergarten in person in Brooklyn?

    1. Nothing specific to your location, but we did the AKC Canine Good Citizen training with our then-puppy years ago and would absolutely do this with every dog going forward. It was such a great way to not only train our dog but to make sure we understand how to be responsible pet owners. If you have that in your area, I would start there.

  16. Two unrelated health/fitness q’s.

    1. I think I’d like an Oura ring. I mostly want to have a fitness tracker and a sleep tracker. Anything else would be incidental. I hated the Apple Watch. Is Oura what I’m looking for? I get a $200 Amex credit on the ring and I believe I can pay for the monthly $5.99 from my HSA. Thoughts? My one concern is it’s huge and I’m not a monster jewelry person (wedding rings, watch, and the same Cape Cod bracelet I’ve worn for 20+ years is about all I do currently) so IDK if I can commit to wearing it 24/7 without feeling it and seeing it on my hand first. Does that make it not worth it?

    2. Running. I just went on my first run in a lonnnng time yesterday because it was 50 degrees in Boston and I said what the heck. It felt so good. I’ve been a gym rat since the fall (lots of circuit classes, strength training) and I felt really strong, which was amazing and why I was able to go do almost 4 miles yesterday without too much struggle. I used to run half marathons (like 10+ years ago.. I’m 41) so I know how to train but it’s been a minute. I need to resist the urge to go from zero to 3-5 mile runs several times per week without training/building up to it. I’ve had IT and sciatica issues over the years so I really need to be thoughtful about injury prevention. What should I do? On the one hand, I’m ready to sign up for a 10k in May and just go for it but on the other hand, I need to ladder my training and not get injured from overuse right out of the gate. Any suggestions? Strength training I should prioritize? Blogs or otherwise? I use to train with Hal Higdon’s programs fwiw.

    1. Yay! You probably know you should be doing a couch to 5k program or something like that for the sake of injury prevention. The standard advice is not to increase your mileage more than 10% jump per week, and run/walk intervals are your friend. I like the blog Run to the Finish; I think she has some content about avoiding IT band issues as she struggles with them, and she’s in her mid 40s. If you have been doing a lot of strength training, I’m guessing you need to focus more on a few running-focused strength moves, mobility, and building mileage gradually

      1. Everyone says 10% per week; IMHO, that’s overly aggressive. My normal recommendation (and it works for me) is to keep mileage the same for about 2 months, determine that there are no injuries or niggles, and then add one day a week of running.

        So you might do 3 miles 3 days a week for two months, then do 3 miles 4 days a week for another few months. Then get to five days a week; then increase mileage; then add high intensity (speed work, hills, mile repeats).

        1. Meanwhile I was going to say the Couch to 5k/10% recommendations are too cautious (provided no history of injury).

          1. 10% per week would have you tripling mileage within three months. If you start off around 10 miles per week (3ish miles 3 days per week), you would be up to 30 mpw three months later. That’s going to cause problems for most people.

            You should plateau and evaluate and have cutback weeks.

          2. The older you are, the more conservative you should be. People really start hurting themselves in their 40s.

    2. If Hal Higdon has worked for you in the past, why not start there? Or Couch to 5K would work, too. I’d question a 10K for May. You likely COULD do it, but I would be concerned about injury from doing too much too soon. (At least for me, personally, there is a big jump in the level of fitness required for a 5K vs. a 10K.)

    3. No help on 1, but you sound like me a year ago with 2, so here are my suggestions. If you’re having issues with sciatica and IT band issues, you need to make sure you’re strengthening your gluteus medius as you’re building your mileage or it will only get worse. You can see a PT or find some exercises online, but think things like single leg bridges, single leg RDL, etc.
      Otherwise, a 10K is not a crazy departure from 4 miles, so I say go for it. If you can run 4 miles after a long break, you could probably gut out 6 miles if you had to. Every race doesn’t need to be a PR- sometimes just doing the race and being around that fun race day energy is worth it, even if you end up run-walking a bit. Add in some single legged strength stuff, get consistent with running 2-3 times a week, and don’t think about running as an all or nothing. Enjoy it and work it into your life so it can always be part of your life.

    4. Personally, I think that the Ouras are super ugly, so I don’t want one. But, I have a Garmin (though I’d prefer a “regular watch”, the Garmin is much more palatable to me than an Oura).

      1. I love my Garmin. That silly body battery feature was the first thing that taught me that if I wear myself down to a 5, I’ll actually sleep worse than if I have more energy left at the time I fall asleep!

    5. Injury prone runner here.

      Never do back to back running days until you have a consistent base.s

      Walk. Walking strengthens muscles, bones, and tendons, and can help your body adjust to the impact of running. Walk at a good clip (aim for 15ish minute miles) on your not-running days.

    6. I have an Oura and love it. if you have a best buy near you, they have rings you can try on to see the fit.

      1. I have a friend who has a Oura and bought two super skinny, petite rings to stack below and above it and it really takes away from the ugly look of them, so that is an option.

    7. I would recommend doing squats and maybe deadlifts for lower body strength. That will help you to pick up your feet.

    8. I am a recent convert to Oura ring – definitely check them out in person, but also, buy the ten dollar sizer kit and wear it for a few days. Make sure you account for fluctuations in size over the day and that way you can decide what finger you are comfortable with. I lucked out that I found a size that works on either my middle or index finger and I sometimes change between the two depending on what I am doing.

  17. My daughter is a junior in college and had her heart set on OCS and becoming a military officer. She very wisely is not pursuing this anymore.

    She’s feeling pretty lost in what to pursue next. She was drawn to the structure and challenge of the military (she is currently a college athlete studying engineering), and also liked the idea of service/something bigger than herself (her father is a veteran and I’ve been in public service my whole career).

    If she didn’t get into OCS she was thinking about doing a year of Americorps and reapplying. But now Americorps funding is also precarious.

    She could of course pursue other “helping” paths in governments or non profits, but she really wants something thats more “intense” right out of school. Plus, I can say with my firsthand experience that the administration has really impacted careers in all levels of government, NGOs and non profits – it’s not just the federal government thats impacted. She is not interested in anything in the medical field.

    Any advice I can pass along to her? Suggestions on alternative careers?

    She can, of course, do what she wants (and pays for), but I’m generally not a proponent of grad school right after undergrad. I think everyone can use a few years in the workforce under their belts first.

    1. Why wouldn’t she just look for bachelor’s-level jobs in engineering for a couple of years before grad school?

      I understand the desire for structure and service, but right now is not the time to be joining the military or going into any type of job that depends on government funding. Remind her that she can still go to OCS in a few years if things change.

      1. There’s a big difference between Americorps (funding uncertain) and joining the military (actual contact; legal repercussions to leaving early).

        I am an engineer; I would encourage her to apply to both Americorps *and* any engineering role open to new grads. Competition is intense right now; and private companies have layoffs just as easily as Americorps funding gets cut. She’s way better off having offers from both Americorps and a few companies and deciding then, than trying to “pick a lane” now

      2. A few years working as an engineer and then OCS later is her “backup plan”, but she was hoping to find something that’s more aligned to her current interests in the mean time.

    2. Engineering can give her so many paths, many of which have a tremendous impact on the public good, even if she’s not working directly for the government. What about targeting coursework and firms that do environmental work or renewable energy? I realize much of the funding for that is also precarious due to the current administration’s denial of climate change. She could also look abroad. New professionals in in-demand fields are being welcomed in Canada and Europe.

      1. Yes, she chose engineering (before she caught the OCS bug) because of all of the interesting and impactful things you can do as an engineer!

    3. Could she pursue a more “conventional” job right after college (ideally something she finds meaningful, but a 9-5) and use her time outside of work to challenge herself (Ironman training?) and/or do meaningful volunteer work? Perhaps volunteer firefighting/EMT? Volunteering with veterans?

      Otherwise, my understanding is that the Peace Corps is still funded/operating relatively normally.

    4. Public Health Commissioned Corps? Perhaps something related to sanitation engineering.

    5. What if she coached her sport at the high school level on the side while working a day job in engineering?

    6. I am not sure what the status of Teach for America is, but that could be a fit. Certainly schools could use someone with good STEM skills like your daughter.

    7. I also think going straight to grad school isn’t usually the best idea, but it might be a good place to hide out during a bad administration if she’s interested in the government. If the executive branch changes hands in 2029 there will be lots of rebuilding/restructuring to do in government agencies.

    8. I work for a F500 healthcare company, and we have a lot of executives that are former military and/or engineering. Most of them worked for a few years in an unrelated field before they got their MBA and were recruited to our company in their MBA program. Generally, the executives that came from this background will say that they were aligned with the mission of the company and the focus on patients. Those with an engineering/military background also tend to do well here because of the focus on structure/process that you have at a large company.

    9. What about the Jesuit Volunteer Corps? I know, I know, the Catholic Church, but… I work with a liberal Jewish guy who did a stint in the Jesuit Volunteer Corps straight out of college, then went on to an elite law school and a social justice job. He had a great experience with the Jesuits.

      1. My brother in law had a positive experience in JVC, and I think it could offer a lot of what OP’s daughter was thinking she’d get out of AmeriCorps. Understood if doing a Catholic program just won’t work for her, but it’s certainly not a conservative Catholic environment.

    10. I feel that if she likes the atmosphere, can she not be a DOD employee or contractor on DOD contracts on site (and then maybe explore national guard, which operates at the state level) for the military aspect? I know a lot of civilian employees who work on bases. And a family member is an engineer who worked on a lot of government / military contracts.

      Finally, I know some engineers who go to work for large civilian contractors who build airports, airport runways, terminals.

      1. National Guard units get mobilized and deployed all the time. If she wants to avoid that, absolutely do not join the Guard.

    11. What kind of engineering? I think there are some types of engineering jobs where Master’s degrees are basically required and most people get them right away (e.g. Civil), and then some where this is very much not true (computer science). If something like civil, what about a co-op master’s program? This is how my Dad got his degree. My husband was also the faculty advisor for a college chapter of an organization called Engineers Without Borders when he was an engineering professor, and he found their volunteer work very rewarding. My husband’s degrees are also in civil engineering and he went straight to a master’s program but then worked for a couple years before getting his PhD. I don’t think he regrets going straight to the master’s program at all. He eventually went into teaching, first at the college level and then high school.

        1. Engineer here.

          She should really be thinking about a position where she can get hours towards her PE license, and should consider taking the FE exam about now-ish. That could be a lot of types of firms- anything from national labs to huge companies to small specialty manufacturing firms. Internships could help narrow the field- there should be lots of summer intern opportunities for MechE’s available.

          1. There is an Engineers without Borders group that typically has a college/university club, that might give her some experiences and connect her with volunteer work, a wider network, alumni, etc. while scratching that itch to do-something-good

            She might also want to bear in mind that student groups sometimes have fallow seasons when chunks of active members graduate, so she might be a spark that livens up a group.

    12. She could take almost any corporate job and totally “drink the kool aid” and have an intense experience. Corps would love us to feel like what they’re doing is life and death and our work is making the world a better place. All you have to do is believe it if that’s the atmosphere you want.

    13. If she’s only a junior in college, why does she need to give up on OCS?

      Assuming she goes right after graduation, she won’t be through with OCS and career training and ready for an assignment until January 2028. With the flaky Trump administration, who knows what’ll be going on by then.

      I know combat is so, so scary, and there’s this perception that everyone who goes dies or comes home wounded or mentally scarred, but it’s statistically not true. Millions of troops served in Iraq and Afghanistan and the vast majority of them came home just fine. See: me, my husband, all of our friends.

      I hate to see a kick-ass young woman walk away from a military career. I hope she’ll reconsider.

      1. Oh no, she still wants to serve and still plans on applying to OCS after this administration!

        She was on the fence throughout this administration, but Venezuela/Iran has really dissuaded her for ethical reasons (not that our last few wars were great but they weren’t *this* blatant). Honestly, my husband (a veteran) has huge reservations about anyone choosing to join the military *right now*.

        My husband and I are quite liberal and have had a few “is it time to leave federal service” discussions – we haven’t directly involved her in these conversations (it’s her life!) but she’s also very liberal and knows the concerns we, and many others have, of continuing to serve in this administration amid everything. I’ve decided to stay and try to keep doing the good work and I have my “I will quit immediately” line in the sand, but luckily it hasn’t come to that yet.

        We very much understand that many people in the military have to be apolitical and serve in ways they’re personally not aligned with, under administrations they don’t agree with and that she has to be comfortable with that if/when she joins. She is not comfortable with that under this iteration of MAGA Republicans, and I don’t blame her.

      2. See also me, my husband and all of our friends. And my sister, who did OCS about 6 years post-undergrad, after detouring through some interesting-but-not-career-enabling jobs in her early 20’s, so I echo the point above that she can put a pin in this without giving up the idea entirely if she’s just unhappy about the current direction of military/gvt leadership.

        I’m not an engineer, but it seems to me that any entry level job (really any job, full stop) is what you make of it, and there are probably corporations large and small at which she could do work that feels meaningful or contributing to something bigger than herself.

    14. Nobody should join the military unless they are prepared to follow lawful orders of their superiors regardless of whether they agree with them. Full stop.

      I am just saying that because people here talk about her joining when there is a change in administrations – but administrations change. Someone who joined under Clinton might find themselves in the Middle East under Bush. Someone who joined under Biden might find themselves there now. The great disadvantage of military service, aside from the fact that they can basically order you to die, is that you do not get to pick the conflicts you will be involved in.

      Don’t misunderstand – I am not suggesting she should join the military, but waiting and joining when we have a change of senior leadership does not solve the longer term problem.

      What about law enforcement or fire fighting?

    15. Can her future job be something related? If she was interested in the military, there are tons of opportunities for engineers in defense contracting. She can look for jobs with Northrup, Raytheon, Lockheed, etc. She can still support those missions without having to go to war. Many have structued engineering leadership programs for recent grads. Many big companies also have volunteer opportunities as well, or she could join a program like big sisters.

  18. I’m in the final stages of interviewing for a cool new job. It would be a lateral move for better pay, fully remote, and good growth potential. But I just found out I’m pregnant and this is a small tech company. There’s every chance that I won’t be offered the job, but I’m wondering what’s reasonable to negotiate if I am. I’d hate to have to pass on the job because there’s no FMLA or switching health insurance won’t cover things… Has anyone ever been in a similar boat?

    1. I was once involved in hiring a person who was pregnant enough that FMLA wouldn’t have kicked in to cover her maternity leave. She negotiated an unpaid maternity leave equal to the FMLA timing after receiving an offer. We wanted her for the long term so we were willing to permit the maternity leave. She was obviously pregnant during the interview process and acknowledged it, but if you are early on you could probably avoid mentioning it until after you receive an offer.

      As far as health insurance goes, you would have to check coverage to be certain, but doesn’t current law provide for immediate coverage when you switch employer plans?

      1. No, the Affordable Care Act set the maximum eligibility waiting period to 90 days. Employers can, of course, have shorter waiting periods.

        Also, some employers end your coverage on your last day worked, or the last day of the period for which you last paid your share of the health premium (so if you quit on the 15th, and your last premium deduction covered the period ending on the 15th, that when your coverage ends. They don’t have to extend your coverage to the end of the month in which you quit.

        You could presumably elect COBRA to bridge any gap in coverage.

    2. Asking to review the benefits package is a 1000% normal thing to do at the offer stage.

      As is negotiating a paid maternity leave (which is different than FMLA – FMLA protects your job but doesn’t pay you during leave) if you wouldn’t otherwise be entitled to it – even big companies often have a waiting period before you’re eligible for paid leave.

      1. You have to be employed by a company for 12 months before you FMLA eligible. Anyone changing jobs when pregnant is not eligible for FMLA leave, but some jobs let them take 12 weeks anyways.

    3. If it’s really small, I’d except that you’ll have flexibility but also be expected to be flexible with them.

      It wasn’t maternity leave but I was a contractor at a very small tech startup and they green lit an employee to accompany their spouse on a 2 month sabbatical. It ended up being 1 month totally unpaid, 2 weeks true PTO and 2 weeks working very off hours from the other side of the world, plus email availability with a 36 hour response time.

      I would make sure you understand what you will need for maternity leave esp if this is your first child. You’ll also want to plan for when the kiddo is sick a lot in the first year of life.

      You could suggest 3 months unpaid, or potentially use some PTO if you have it. Are you pregnant enough you could just delay your start until after maternity leave?

  19. Repost from the weekend thread for more visibility

    Can anyone recommend an online travel agent they’ve used? Ideally with a focus on the Caribbean. I have a husband and two teens and everyone is just so picky. All I want is to book a lovely trip for April before my oldest goes to college in the fall. Unfortunately I’m in analysis paralysis and need someone else to help me plan this before I go crazy. Thanks!

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