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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Oh my. Normally, I wouldn't recommend a leather pencil skirt as work-appropriate, but this one from Reiss is making me rethink my stance. It's still going to be a know-your-office situation, but this silhouette is so classic and the light gray color is so luxurious-looking that I think you'd be able to pull this off in a lot of places. I love they way they've styled it with the mauve top and coat, but I think I'd probably wear it with a black turtleneck, black tights, and black booties for the office. It would also look cool styled with a very traditional-looking tweed jacket for a fun mix of textures.
The skirt is $495 and available in sizes 0–10. Grace Leather Pencil Skirt
A few more affordable options are from Sandro (half off at $335!), Remain Birger Christensen ($330), and Topshop ($240).
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Sales of note for 9.16.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 30% off wear-now styles
- J.Crew Factory – (ends 9/16 PM): 40% off everything + extra 70% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Extra 25% off all tops + markdowns
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
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- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Ellen
Yay Kat! This is my thought exactly. I have previously told the hive how leather is great in the winter, b/c it keeps us warm, and now a cute pencil skirt like this one has the advantage of both warmth as well as stylisheness! Great pick! And BTW, the price is reasonable considering all of the leather we are getting! YAY!
What is the HIVE’s thinking about whether Bloomberg will be able to win the nomination? I think his main competition will be Elizabeth Warren, and I am torn between supporting her, as a competent woman lawyer, and him, as a very sucessful busnessman who did a great job running the City. What does the HIVE think? Will either of these get the nomination? Dad thinks it is a toss up, and I think I agreed. Myrna likes Bloomberg, so now I am not sure. It’s a busy week at work for me so I wish the HIVE well! YAY!!!
Where is the potential doctor?
Reaching out to the poster who was considering going back to school to be a doctor ..what did you decide?
anon
I’m curious too!
As a doctor who left medicine, I would be very wary of doing this as an older student these days unless you are very secure financially. The costs for medical school are astronomical, the delay in income long (for med school prep courses, then med school, then residency, then fellowship etc…), and the future for doctors is uncertain. Salaries are coming down, which is appropriate in some cases, but until they start to subsidize $$ college/medical school like they do in other countries with better health care systems, the incredible burden on medical trainees to pay for years for the “honor” of becoming a physician and delay starting life with even more crushing loans (college + med school + residency delays etc..) is rough. Especially considering the stress and responsibility of your daily job. Yes, it is deeply satisfying though. Some people carry the daily stress better than others.
I would never go to med school now unless I was independently wealthy with parents paying for it or was lucky enough to go on full scholarship.
Anonymous
Love this colour, very elegant
Housecounsel
Absolutely gorgeous.
Anonymous
When did you switch from Miss to Ms? I’m 34 and still use Miss having been in a long term relationship over 10 years. Having had a Christmas card in the post using Ms I suddenly felt a bit stupid that I’m still using Miss and wondered if I am now a Ms?
Anon
I’ve always used Ms.
Anon
Same!
Anon
Same. Married but didn’t take my husband’s name.
Never too many shoes...
I have used Ms. since forever. I am married and I still prefer Ms. in the professional context.
Anonymous
Maybe I am missing something, but I have always used Ms. I am married but have never once used Mrs. and cringe when someone refers to me as Mrs. I used Ms. when I was unmarried too.
Anonymous
You’re a Ms. once you’re 18.
IMO (and fight me on this, I don’t care what etiquette says) once you’re 18, you’re a grown woman and not a little “Miss” anymore.
LaurenB
No fighting here! Miss is for little girls and preschool teachers. Although it’s perfectly fine if someone who doesn’t know me says “excuse me, miss” as opposed to “excuse me, ma’am”! I work on a volunteer basis with a group of college-age women and if I needed an honorific in addressing envelopes to them, I’d use Ms, for sure.
Senior Attorney
Yes, I agree. Little girls, preschool teachers, and dance teachers. ;)
Velma
Choosing Ms. is not about your relationship status–that’s the point.
I used Miss as a child–my mother’s choice! I started to use Ms. as soon as I hit the age of reason, and switched over to Dr. (at times) when I earned that degree. I primarily just use my name, which I didn’t change at marriage.
Vicky Austin
I used Miss before I was married just because I liked it better. Not that there’s occasion to use it very often these days.
Ribena
I’m 25 and use Ms at work and Miss in my personal life. I always said I’d switch to Ms when I graduated from college, and didn’t feel grown-up enough.
Anonymous
This is so ridiculous
Ribena
I know – but to me Ms is a marker of adulthood.
Anonymous
And it’s absurd that you, an adult woman, won’t call herself one.
Anonymous
Just out of curiosity when in your social life do you use a title at all? The only time I can think of is wedding invitations, when everyone I know would automatically deem me a Ms.
Anonymous
I am having a flashback to the AbFab episode where one of them is referred to Madame and corrects with offender with MADEMOISELLE (however that is spelled)
OP
I think having not got married it has just never occurred to me to change from Miss which is what is on my bank account etc. and it’s not something I’m called day to day, it’s a box on a form. I now feel a bit silly though and it feels more of an issue to change than it is.
UHU
Have been using Ms. since I was a teen.
Anon
I think Miss is reserved for elementary schoolers addressing their teacher. I’ve never seen an adult use or addressed other than Ms. or, in social contexts Mrs.
Anonymous
Ummmm what? Like when I was 18? If not earlier? I can’t fathom an adult woman actually affirmatively choosing to be known as “Miss” instead of “Ms”. To me, “Miss” is for children and ballet teachers.
Anon
Honest question – where are you guys even having occasion to use Miss or Ms.?
Anon
When you subscribe to The Economist, maybe? Literally the only time I’ve had to choose.
The original Scarlett
That was my thought too
Anon
Ok for real I usually skip the drop down box for Mr Mrs Miss Ms Dr etc when doing any kind of online profile, but unfortunately Hyatt now thinks I am Mr. Smith (Mr is Of Course the default) and in this time of gender fluidity no one questions it. When I check in at the front desk it’s “welcome back Mr. Smith!” Every single time.
Anon
Same!! (Not Hyatt but Starwood…)
anon
Thank you for asking. I’m genuinely perplexed.
Anon
Right – I feel like I don’t have any say in the matter. Some people address me as Ms, some as Mrs (or Miss when I was single) but I never have an occasion to choose my title myself.
LaurenB
Airline tickets ask for an honorific – that’s where I use it the most.
I did change my name, and I don’t really care if I’m referred to as “Dr. and Mrs. XX” but it is amusing that a bank trying to get our business will send my husband and me emails that read “Dr. XX and Lauren”. I would think they’d either use honorifics for both of us or first names for both of us (and we’re fine with first names).
Becky
I believe I picked baroness as my title once when booking a flight on British Airways. Becuse, why not? Alas, I was treated no better than a regular Ms.
Anon
Thank you for asking the first and only question I had immediately upon reading this. Haha!
Anon
I’ve never used Miss and it really rubs me the wrong way when people use that. My marital status has absolutely zero bearing on anything in my life.
trefoil
This! I had to call and ask my bank to change it from Miss to Ms. I don’t know when it became Miss – it seems to have been when I opened an account in my new province, as all other correspondence just has my name. The call centre staffer did not understand why I wanted to change it, and I had to articulate that Ms. does not denote marital status, just like Mr, and no, i did not want to change it to Mrs. Either Ms. or no honorific, please.
AZCPA
Same – never used Miss, always Ms. And it won’t change when I marry in the fall.
anon
This is so curious to me. I never refer to myself as any of those and would never correct someone who called me Miss, Ms. Or Mrs. Of course, I am also one of those people who doesn’t feel like I need to sign or have my middle name on everything to make myself seem important either.
Never too many shoes...
I have definitely corrected someone in the professional context. I recently hired a young clerk who, in an email to another outside party, referred to me as “Mrs. NTMS”. I prefer Ms. in the professional context because why should outside counsel know my marital status, so I asked that Ms. be used going forward.
Anon
Yes, I corrected a summer associate who called me Mrs. __. In a social context, I would never correct someone though.
LaurenB
This is an odd comment. Why would you assume having a middle name is motivated by “feeling self-important”? I use my middle initial in signing most documents, simply because I, well, happen to like my middle name.
Anon
Agreed. Using your middle name or initial is not ostentatious.
anon
And others disagree.
You do you, but it definitely is sending an “I’m important and I’m trying to tell you about it” signal to some people.
Anon
Eh, in my experience the only people (excluding women named Mary Ellen Smith or something like that, who have always gone by two names) who use a middle initial professionally are Big Law lawyers, and it strikes me as a little ostentatious. Although I blame the firm more than the individuals, since – at least in my experience – the firm basically starts using your middle initial on everything without your consent. It just seems like another way of signaling “We are Big Law Attorneys and we are VERY IMPORTANT.”
Anon
This is because there is often more than one Mary Smith in a Biglaw firm. Mary A. Smith is in pharma litigation and Mary R. Smith is in bank regulatory. It’s practical, not a slight at any small/mid law.
Anon Y. Mous
I’m neither a Mary Ellen nor a lawyer of any sort and I sign my middle name/initial because I love it and the person who gave it to me.
anon
Sorry, that’s how I feel. I understand it if it’s a common name, but most of the time I think it’s exactly what Anon at 2:36 says.
anon
Middle initial as well. I find it so off-putting.
Anon
Wow you two need to find real things to get upset about.
Anon
I can’t imagine wasting the mental energy to get upset about this.
anon
I don’t get upset about it. I just have a first impression that the person is trying too hard to impress me if they think a middle initial is important.
anon
I understand that you like your middle name, but what does signing your initial have to do with that? Are you trying to get people to ask your name so that you can talk about it? What is the point?
anon
https://www.vox.com/2014/5/1/5669138/you-should-start-using-a-middle-initial
I can’t do it because it feels too fake to me, but clearly other people do think about how pretentious it is to use your middle initial.
anonymous
I feel like it’s relatively common with lawyers– it never struck me as odd. I actually find it kind of charming that I know all the middle initials (and at this point, names, because you wonder) of the attorneys I’ve worked with. Signatures are usually a little overwrought– it’s not like I endorse the sentiment “very truly yours,” at the end of a discovery dispute letter.
That said, I did work with one tremendous narcissist who liked to jazz up his signatures sometimes. He did not go by his middle name, but would sometimes randomly and for no reason sign emails with his first initial, then his whole middle name, and his last name. It was made worse by the fact that his middle name was very WASP-y, surname sounding. Think J. Windsor Smith instead of “Joe Smith.”
anon
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/13/fashion/theyre-dropping-like-middle-initials.html
ADHD help
My chronic inability to organize and follow through has me at a point where I feel I need to be treated for what I strongly suspect is a long-undiagnosed case of ADHD. In my early thirties, I am for the first time in a place where my intelligence and charm are not enough to make up for my lack of focus. After a client list review meeting Friday in which my boss described me as “a super smart golf ball bouncing around a tile room,” I am ready to fight for my job. On Saturday I messaged my PCP about a referral to a psychiatrist for evaluation.
My questions: should I tell my boss that I am seeking a diagnosis? I suspect he will be relieved to hear I am trying to fix my brain but I worry a little that he won’t be able to relate to my need for something more than an organizational system. And second, any advice for advocating for myself? I can certainly point to things throughout my life that indicate the longstanding nature of the problem. But still I worry that I won’t be taken seriously having made it through law school “on my own.”
Anon
If you’re in law, and especially a law firm where you don’t have job security, I wouldn’t disclose. That is, barring a disaster that required me to provide an explanation. Stigma around mental health is very real, especially in law.
ADHD help
I am in a law firm where I’m certainly not guaranteed a job, but I do feel like my boss really WANTS me to figure out how to solve my organizational problems. We’re a small firm (7 lawyers/a dozen support staff) and so my boss is very aware of what’s going on and most (but not all) of the balls I’ve managed to drop because of my disorganization.
I’m feeling optimistic for the first time in months now that I’ve actually taken steps to help me overcome this. And am (characteristically!) anxiously waiting for my PCP to get me a referral.
anon
Yes, this. I was asked to leave big law (as it goes) and one reason cited was anxiety. Yeah, not legal. Yeah, no firm cares. OP, I also got diagnosed within the last year with ADHD and am a lawyer in a friendly firm. I know other people (including partners) here who have it and sometimes I really want to share it with them but I have bit my tongue based on my past experience. You just don’t know how people are going to perceive it. Your safest course is going to be to get yourself medicated/treated and then just let your results speak for themselves. Good luck! It’s a weird roller coaster to be on, but I hope that things start getting better for you.
Housecounsel
I honestly don’t think you will meet much resistance with medical providers. I think it’s pretty common for women in particular to manage to compensate through school. I would absolutely not tell your boss. If and when you have a diagnosis, and you think there are accommodations that you need, you can speak to him or to HR. But I would not share anything with him now.
Anonymous
You’re two steps ahead. First do the testing. Don’t worry about them dismissing you because of your career gains. A lot of people with attention problems can still be successful due to compensation techniques. While you are likely to be asked a lot about your perceptions of the problem, some testing may have little to do with your experience and involve things like tracking your eye movements, memory tests, etc. Only once they define what is going on and an action plan should you consider next steps. If it is an attention problem, I’d still be hesitate to disclose. That may make them only look harder for flightiness. In the meantime, try to come up with organizational systems to help reduce your stress. For what it’s worth, I find I have a lot harder time focusing when it feels like there is a gun to my head because of a big deadline looming or too many projects at once without a plan to prioritize.
TrixieRuby
Sympathies as a fellow smart and personable ADHD sufferer. Do not disclose, and you will need an ADHD coach as well as meds to make progress. You will be amazed at the difference that the meds make! The coach will help you develop habits to stay on task, stay organized, follow through, etc. Best wishes.
Anonymous
I would not discuss medical status or plan, but just follow through with your treatment plan and the improvement should be obvious. If you feel you must say something to protect your job, then I’d tell your boss, “I heard your concern about my lack of focus, and I am going to take steps to remedy that. I believe you’ll start to see a difference soon.” If he asks what plans you steps you are going to take, you can keep it vague – I’m going to work with a professional (or a therapist) on how to become better organized and more focused. Wishing you the best of luck!
Anon
My thought is that if treating the ADHD helps, the improved organization will speak for itself. Disclosing almost makes it sound like you don’t expect improvement and need accommodations, which I think is putting the cart before the horse?
Houda
I went through something similar about realizing (the hard way) that I needed medical help. My GP was reluctant, they made me go through CBT which required a long waiting list and proved useless. I eventually got my referral and had to wait again because it’s NHS but the diagnosis itself was very easy. I was so scared that because I coped well that they would dismiss me, but she was very knowledgeable. I got started on Concerta which was horrible during the first 7 days but then worked like a charm, then we realized I always crash by 2PM so we supplemented with a tiny dose of Ritalin in the afternoon. I still have some of my ADD patterns but my job was definitely saved
Anon
I wouldn’t worry about the doctor not believing you. Not quite the same thing, but I had testing for and was diagnosed with dyslexia after college. I got no push back from doctor’s in any manner.
ADHD help
Follow up: My PCP’s office just called in response to my request for a referral. Apparently none of the psych offices are taking new patients right now unless they’ve already been diagnosed and are currently on ADHD meds OR if they’re coming from a hospital admission. The best they could offer me is an appointment with my PCP, an old guy who I really don’t expect much help from based on prior experiences. This must be one of the benefits to living in a larger city, you don’t have to settle for a sub-par PCP. And you don’t have to travel several hours to see a psychiatrist, if you can even see one at all…
Cb
Studying for my test for UK permanent residency and basically just memorizing dates of battles. Leaves me pondering what people actually need to know to be good citizens. What would you put on your ideal residency test?
For me, it would be knowledge about resources. What can your representatives help with? How do you contact them? What can landlords do/not do? What resources are available at your library? How can you better care for your environment?
LifeScienceMBA
Basic knowledge about the government (e.g. branches and what they do). Main articles of the constitution (e.g. human rights, freedom of speech, no discriminiation, etc). How elections and representation work. How do taxes and health insurance work (in the country). How the school system works.
Anon
I like this list.
Anonymous
In a civics sense, with whom do you have a grievance?
Where I live, we are governed by:
US Government (in a loose way — I send them tax money, I’m not sure I have other direct interaction with them)
State government (ditto, but I have a drivers license and am registered to vote)
County government (jails, sheriff; also runs the school system, which I send my children to)
City government (zoning, airport, sports stadia, some performing arts and cultural institutions, light rail)
So I have much involvement with my city and some involvement with my county. A friend at the city attorney’s office says that half of the complaints she gets are for things that the COUNTY oversees.
Also, I get to vote for all sorts of state officials (agricultural commissioner) that I think should just be appointed by the governor. While my state was formerly quite agricultural, my city bans the keeping of livestock within its borders so I don’t think I should get a vote on agriculture based on my iffy ability to keep the wild rabbits (or whatever it is) from eating my tomatoes and peppers from my (tiny and not needed for sustenance) garden. I think governors should appoint everyone who we currently have to elect — I don’t need a 20 page ballot (also looking for you, soil and water conservation district). NJ is like that — governor does all the stuff so you only need to figure out one vote (and half of those people wind up indicted in a few years — see 2020 NJ AG announcement on twitter).
Anonymous
OMG yes to the soil and water conservation district. We vote on that here in NC too and I just don’t know why. I have no ability to judge the qualifications of the candidates to do this job (which I had to research what exactly they do). I feel that about a lot of the positions we elect, actually. We also elect judges. I’m a lawyer and still don’t feel qualified to make that decision without extensive research and usually just go with whoever the bar recommends anyway.
Anonymous
I know! I feel like I elect the governor and all state senate / reps and can they please just handle? Why do I have to be the decider of all of these things???
anon
Isn’t that proving the point as to why they should be elected? When the governor is choosing for you and they end up indicted?
Angela
I’d add to that basic facts that people who are long-term residents would know that form a base of common knowledge about the area, like geographic regions, distances from each other, locations of important cities, important cultural events or holidays.
Anonymous
Also: travel and visitors. When do you need a passport? When do you need a visa? Can you be deported if you commit a crime?
If you are older and have worked in different countries: social security totalization agreements. If you are still working: income tax treaty with your prior country.
anon
I have to admit DH’s cultural identity as a brit is basically defined by those medival battles…especially the jingoistic mocking of the french.
Cb
It’s true! And it’s all English history, so not useful knowledge for when my Scottish kid goes to school.
Ses
Best of luck! I’ll be you later this year and not looking forward to the study, but excited about the citizenship!
Cb
I’m holding off on citizenship for now as it is so, so expensive. My colleagues seemed to study loads more but I’m passing all the practice tests with 80-90% right (just random dates screwing me up) so I’m feeling okay about just reading the book once and taking notes. Going to try and do an hour everyday and re-read the book on Saturday AM.
Anonymous
Pretty, but I swore off leather after the dry cleaning bills for those years when everything had leather trim.
LaurenB
That leather skirt is absolutely gorgeous. Great pick for my fantasy closet.
Anonymous
I love it, too, but I can’t even describe the color (fog? mauve fog) and think it might look wretched on someone with my ruddy skin.
ALSO: where do you wear it? If it is cool enough for a leather skirt (I have one, if they are lined, they are pretty warm) AND A COAT, is it not also too cool for sandals? How would you style it or would you need the whole outfit as pictured?
I have so many questions.
FWIW, my leather pencil skirt is black and I love it. But black is just easier to style. By this time of winter (which is barely into winter), I am ready to ditch my winter goth color palette.
Never too many shoes...
Right? In some other life, this is me.
anon
I have a pleather pencil skirt that I wear to the office frequently and never get side eyes. I just dress it up like I would any other skirt.
In-House in Houston
A mentor of mine is retiring at the end of the month. Any ideas what I can get him? He’s quite wealthy, so a gift card/certificate doesn’t seem quite appropriate. I plan to give him a card, explaining how much he’s helped shape my career over the years and that he’ll be missed. But I’d still like to give him some token of appreciation. Any suggestions? TIA!
Angela
A consumable that is based on your knowledge of him, i.e., something that he specifically would like and appreciate. A nice bottle of wine, a coffee from a location you two have discussed or visited together, a gourmet basket of a food he really likes. I feel like consumables are the best gift for people late in life because most people have all the “stuff” they need.
Or perhaps tickets to an event you know he’d like (very very good seats only please) or an activity you think he’d enjoy.
Anon in CA
In December, my mentor and very established partner retired as well. I considered and researched multiple organizations important to her to make a donation in her name. This included the state/local women’s lawyer’s association, a few nonprofits where she had served as a board member, etc. But ultimately I went with her Law School’s scholarship program for disadvantaged/first gen students as she did a phenomenal job diversifying our office. I sent her a card and let her know about this donation, and she called me a few days later and was extremely thankful and honored. I am pretty sure she did not want or need any more stuff, as she received plenty at her retirement party.
H13
Does anyone have a recommendation for a desktop humidifier?
Anony
I have a Homedics Personal Ultrasonic Humidifier that I like although it’s not the strongest. I’ve had it for about 4 or 5 years now and it still works!
H13
Thank you!
anon
What are your favorite ways to show affection to your spouse? Bonus points if it can be done from afar (we both travel for work all week) and his love language is acts of service whereas mine is words of affirmation/quality time. No kids, 30 years old, and have both always been really independent people who are not always very affectionate. Everything is great, so no problems, but I would like to show more affection/appreciation in the way he understands it and isn’t suffocating.
Anon
So my love language is acts of service and quality time, and I love it when my SO of two years comes up with new ideas for places to go on dates, researches and books restaurants or travel (after discussing with me), shares an occasional interesting psychology articles about communication or dealing with whatever issue that we had been discussing the prior weekend or two, calls me to check in on how I’m doing around bedtime. It’s something that SO does really well and made me feel so comfortable in the relationship early on, and it continues to be something I really love about him.
Angela
One of my favorite spouse-care wins was buying him a nice pair of Prana travel pants for him to wear on a long flight. He loves them and wears them all the time, and it’s an act of service in the sense that you went to the trouble to find and buy them. Another good one might be packing him a few snacks to take on the plane/have in the hotel of things that he specifically likes and can’t easily get while on the road.
Colette
When traveling a lot, I always find it hard to be stocked up on things at home.
Could you make it a point to stay on top of keeping his faves (coffee brand, type of cream, snack food, toiletries, etc.) in the house? And maybe sticking a kind note on the item?
My husband and I travel a lot and he frequently leaves me small bags of peanut M&Ms and a note saying I love you, around the house in places I know I would find it – like next to the coffee maker in the morning.
I think he bought a big box of peanut M&Ms that he keeps in his trunk and the notes are just on scrap paper/post its. So it’s a really low effort/high impact thing.
Also, when we are both traveling a lot and our house is a wreck he will proactively schedule a cleaning service to come by one day when he is working from home.
Another idea is staying on top of dry cleaning/laundry so he’s not scrambling when packing.
Eating peanut M&Ms in a clean house not of my doing is basically my idea of heaven.
Vicky Austin
Awww, the box of peanut M&Ms is such a sweet idea.
notinstafamous
Two ideas that have been hits with my half-time-on-the-road and acts-of-service oriented DH:
– a reusable clear bag for toiletries stocked with with mini travel sets of his favourite toiletries that I keep stocked (I bought him the Arcteryx one, it’s held up really well for a year now, and I have an auto-subscribe on Amazon set up for replacing the toiletries)
– Calling the hotel occasionally and ordering cookies & milk (or whatever the favourite snack of choice is) to be left in his room as a treat
Never too many shoes...
Not to be too TMI, but there is an obvious act of service that I am sure he cannot get enough of….
Anon
Eye roll. Clearly not what this post was about and such a weird thing to suggest in this context.
Never too many shoes...
Oh chill, she literally asked for a way to show affection that her spouse would understand.
Go for it
+1
OP
yeah, that’s on the list of things to do more often, haha.
Ellen
I think she is right. Men love it when we do that stuff, and even tho it is not something we would EVER do on our own, if we have to, we do it but ONLY when we are in a committed relationship and he deserves it.
Daffodil
I leave notes in his book, toiletry kit, or other places that he’ll find once he arrives at his hotel and unpacks.
Anonymous
I inventory his togs and keep a list of what he needs. If I have some downtime, I find some socks or whatever online and have them sent to our home addressed to him so he knows to open the package. I also keep an eye on his supply of readers, and restock them. He also likes to try new coffees, so that’s a great trip souvenir.
Angela
Anyone here have “change jobs” on their 2020 goals list? If so, how far along are you in the process and what’s your motivation for the change?
Erin
I don’t this year, but I did last! I was a sole practice attorney in the midwest and moved to the south to work in state government last summer. I had a couple of motivations, my SO and I had been apart for some time (he moved here a couple of year ago), I was tired of snow/ice/cold, and I was super burned out by my practice. I did family law/child advocacy and I was having more bad days than good, the money was getting worse and worse, etc. It was something I thought about for years and just decided to take the leap. Once I started applying/interviewing things went super fast. I first applied for my current job in February, interviewed (phone) in late April, in person interviewed at the beginning of May, and closed practice/moved June. If you have any questions let me know, I’m willing to share what I did wrong. Lol.
Angela
Congratulations, that’s awesome! So glad the move worked out for you. How have you liked your first winter in the south compared to the midwest? :)
And yes I think we’d all love to hear any “don’t”s you’d be comfortable sharing!
Erin
I’m loving the weather, I got rid of all my down coats, snow boots, down comforters, when I moved! The culture is super different and that has been a huge adjustment.
A couple of don’ts as I see them, especially if you are looking to change *fields* not just jobs:
My timeline was super short. I finished billing courts/closing cases on the day I pulled out of town and I went to hearings right up until the Friday before I left (Tuesday). My courts had relied heavily on me for court appointed work and I didn’t want to leave them in a lurch, so I gave myself *no* time between my old job and starting my new job. Since I was already burnt out from my old job it has left me feeling a little burnt out with my new job (despite the fact that my hours are a lot less and a lot more regular). And I got sick from running myself ragged, and missed a day in my first week because I lost my voice. I’m still building up time off, so I can’t really take time off yet. Give yourself a break between jobs, I think it would help to not feel so burnt out now.
I switched out of law entirely, and I was not fully prepared for the different environment that I was going in to. It meant going from court (and suits) every day, to being in an office (and mostly in jeans or business *very* casual). I was not fully prepared for that and it took me a while to adjust, and to stop feeling out of place or uncomfortable going to work in jeans than in skirt suits and hose. Also the pace is super different, as an attorney I was going all.the.time. In government I feel like I’m not doing very much on any given day. The tradeoff is I’m not working weekends or evenings.
I did not negotiate as well as I should have for salary. Benefits were always going to be a selling point and those were standard. Salary-wise I was looking for enough of an increase to make up for the differences in living expenses, and they offered over my initial salary range. They were at the end of the posting period and were going to have to repost, so I didn’t want to risk them reposting and putting it off for a couple more months so I didn’t counter after their first offer. They’ve told me now that had they done the repost/reapplication I could have gotten about 7k more.
These are a couple of things, if I think of more I’ll repost.
Anonymous
What did you switch to? There are a lot of days I’d like to leave law entirely, but I don’t know what else I’m qualified for.
Erin
Anonymous: I went from a heavy courtroom practice (child advocacy, juvenile delinquency) to a policy/communications position in state government. It just happened that there were several non-practicing attorneys in my office/program and they wanted someone with a legal background to help with policy, records retention, etc. I take legislation/administrative rules and create agency policy based on the legislation/rule changes.
When I was looking I was looking at compliance jobs, as well as program related jobs (I interviewed to run a domestic violence awareness program, CASA program director). I looked at law adjacent jobs (lead clerk positions at specialized courts). I looked for things that I thought I could translate my skills into, but honestly it was *hard.* I was so specialized in what I did it was hard to translate that out of child protection and into a general area.
Belle Boyd
That’s my goal for 2020. Actually, it was my goal late last summer but plans got derailed by a bad car accident. Now I’m back to looking, sending out resumes and keeping my fingers crossed. My motivation? It’s a highly toxic workplace — toxic to the point that people think it’s fine to refuse to cooperate with others, talk down to them, and call them stupid or bad employees. It’s time to get out.
anonchicago
It’s my goal! I started passively looking and putting out feelers last year thinking I’d leave if something good came up. Now, I’m fed up. I hate finding out on Sunday if I need to be on a plane Monday, I hate having no control over my schedule, I hate working till midnight because some partner changed their mind last minute, and I hate not being able to take care of a health issue because I keep having to cancel doctor’s appointments.
I tweaked my resume and LinkedIn over the holidays and am in full job search mode now. Have had a few phone interviews so far and hoping to be in a new role by summer.
Anonymous
+1 Exactly same. I’m just done with it. Did a lot of reflection over the holidays and realized that my job is the number 1 (if not the sole) source of my unhappiness. I haven’t found any positions to apply to yet, but have had coffees with a few people at places I want to work and am hoping jobs start coming up to apply to so that I can get out of my current situation ASAP.
Anon
It is my #1 goal for 2020. My motivation is that what at first seemed like a “tough” or “demanding” job has crossed the line into downright abusive. I’ve been toughing it out for over three years now, but the last eight months to a year have been getting progressively worse, and now I am at the end of my rope and every day feel like I’m a minute away from snapping and flipping over a table. This will out me to anyone who knows me, but in the past few months I’ve been told to F* off during a conference call, have had briefs ripped up and thrown all over the conference room if my boss doesn’t like the wording on something, screaming, cursing, telling people to get their “fat ass in here” is the norm. Anytime I disagree with my boss on anything, it isn’t because he’s wrong, it’s because I have an “intellectual issue” and just “don’t understand nuance.” I have had multiple people THIS MONTH! comment that they don’t understand how I’ve can stand it, both inside the firm and outside – including an absolute stranger in the boarding line at the airport after she saw my boss talking to me.
I had two interviews last week with two different firms, and both seemed promising, so fingers crossed!
Anonymous
Damn. When complete strangers comment, you know it’s bad
pugsnbourbon
Yep. I was in a car accident once and called my boss while the EMT was holding my head steady (I was fine, just a muscle spasm but we were being careful). When I hung up he just said “uh … wow.” I hope you get out of there soon.
anon
I have been using cloth napkins almost exclusively to reduce waste, but when I used them for a dinner party this weekend, I thought they looked pretty schlubby. They were not only wrinkly but just looked too big when folded up, if that makes sense. Do I really need to iron them every time? Is there some kind of cloth napkin I could buy that would look nice just folded?
Anonymous
I’m not convinced that cloth napkins reduce waste (they just change it: energy and water to wash napkins, energy to dry them (I would love to put up a clothesline b/c I love line-dried clothes, but I live in the SEUS and don’t work at home and the rain would make that just unpredictable; my sunny yard is the front yard; and the tree pollen can be significant at times).
At any rate, I’m right there with you. I do cloth napkins for special meals and family dinners. But trees are pretty renewable and I napkin paper almost seems to self-decompose.
In the meantime: something not all-cotton and something patterned seem to be more forgiving than thick cotton solid ones.
anon
Yeah, I see your point about the waste, which is why we generally don’t use napkins at all when we eat as a family. I just don’t feel like you need them – you’re eating with a fork, not your hands! I only use them when we are eating something like burgers or when we have guests.
anon
This.
Anonymous
You don’t need to wipe your mouth ever while you are eating???
Anon
They save waste if your goal is to not clog up a landfill and you’re throwing them into the wash with the load of towels you’re already washing (the latter for me would be the case).
For practicality sake I’d go with a busy pattern or black to hide stains and wrinkles.
Anonymous
If it were me, I’d have a supply of “everyday” napkins that got schlubby and I never ironed. I’d have a couple sets of “guest” napkins that stay nicer and get ironed – probably a couple because I’d want a seasonal set or two.
Anonymous
This is what we do. I make husband and kids use cloth napkins so they aren’t complete savages (but they are semi-feral anyway and I end up being the only one using them). ‘Everyday’ napkins get stained and schlubby and tossed in the wash every few days; they are air-dried to prolong their lifespan slightly. The slightly nicer set of guest napkins stays in the closet till we have friends over.
Anonymous
Usually people want their table to look a certain way for a dinner party, and that “certain way” is nicer than it looks for their usual weekday family meals. If that’s you, you probably can’t use the same napkins for your everyday family stuff and also dinner parties. Why not get one set that works well with your dishes and is the right size for a dinner party “look,” (and yes, iron them if you care about such things) and then continue using the ones you have for everyday?
If you don’t want to go that route, then shop for a rougher, textured fabric that is meant to be rumpled, not pristine, or “natural” looking. (I have napkins like this.) Use the one set for everyday and for dinner parties, and replace as needed.
Anon
I would absolutely iron them before a dinner party, and I wouldn’t use any that had stains or were starting to look ratty. I’m surprised honestly that you didn’t do this.
Anon
The prissy judgement in this comment is pretty off-putting. Is that the effect you meant the comment to have?
Anon
Idk OP looked at her table for her dinner party and thought the napkins looked both schlubby and wrinkly, in her words. I am really surprised it didn’t occur to her to just spend a minute ironing them.
Anonymous
You could also put them in those napkin rings which would be more forgiving than just placing them out folded.
Anon
You don’t need to iron them every time you use them, but I would for a dinner party.
Senior Attorney
I throw a lot of dinner parties and we learned early on that it’s well worth it to send the table linens out to be laundered. They do a better job and it’s worth the money to us. If I used cloth napkins for everyday I would do what somebody else suggested and just toss them in the washer and dryer and not bother about stains or wrinkles, and then have a separate set for company.
Another gift suggestion request
I’ll be visiting family in Southern California soon and am trying to think of a gift to bring. Any suggestions? Anything local to the SF Bay Area, where I’ll be coming from?
Anon
Cowgirl Creamery cheese.
Anonymous
+1. That stuff is soooo good!
Anokha
I am a big fan on consumables as gifts, and bringing coffee from one of SF’s more well known coffee shops (Philz, Four Barrel, etc.)
Anon
Blue bottle coffee, Tcho chocolate, basically anything you can buy at the Ferry Building.
Senior Attorney
Ghirardelli chocolate.
Financial Goals
How do you define financial independence for yourself? Do you have a figure in mind that will allow you to be free from keeping a job solely for the money? What kind of factors influence your view on this — lifestyle, hobbies, mortgage, family, loans, health, age, inheritance?
Angela
To me, financial independence is having enough earning power and a high enough salary that I never have to “worry” about money, i.e. I can support my lifestyle and handle almost any contingency that could come up without being in despair. This was my primary motivation for going to law school, and it’s worked out fine.
Anon
For me self-sufficiency and financial independence are massively different things. I’ve been self-sufficient since graduating high school. There’s no family or SO to fall back on if I hit hard times. With that in mind, I keep my expenses such that I could meet my basic needs from delivering pizzas/working retail if I had to.
Financial independence, for me defined as meeting my basic expenses without needing a job, is a goal I’m working towards.
I’m sort of in the middle right now. I have enough F-U money that I could lose my job and not pick up another one for a year or so and it wouldn’t put me significantly off track for an eventual retirement. Thankfully, I’m not in a position where I need it right now.
Never too many shoes...
For me, the freedom to never really worry about what something costs or if I need to save up or wait for a sale.
Housecounsel
I think of it as if something happened to my husband, I can take care of myself and the kids.
Anon
To me it’s having enough in retirement and other savings that I can sustain basic living needs for the rest of my life (mortgage paid off, enough for taxes, insurance, food, transportation, an bare necessities grooming/clothes) – I’ll never make enough to be able to not work and have a bunch of luxuries. This gives the freedom of movement, allow to work part time, start a business, etc. The goal is not to stop working all together but allow the freedom to do it however you want.
MagicUnicorn
To me, financial independence means taking care of my own finances without parental help. I’ve been doing that since college.
Independently wealthy, on the other hand, is the phrase I use to describe the idea of not the income from a job in order to live my life. I hope to be there by the time I’m ready to retire, mid-60’s is the most likely timeframe I will achieve that.
Anonymous
Hive opinions needed. There’s a couple classical music concerts and plays coming up in my large city that I want to get tickets to. My husband has zero interest in this stuff. Some of it is more tolerable than others (I think he might enjoy the play if he would keep an open mind, but may fall asleep 2 min into the piano concert which is not okay because it is a VERY intimate venue). I don’t really have girlfriends I can ask to go with me. I don’t want to go alone but am considering it. Would you go alone? Drag the husband and hope it’s not that bad for him? Invite some looser contacts? I so wish DH was into this stuff.
Angela
Absolutely go alone! That honestly sounds heavenly to me. You can focus on your enjoyment and experience without the guilt/anxiety of worrying about whether the other person is into it. And you’ll probably be able to get a better seat last minute since it’s easiest to find single seats. Go enjoy!
potato
Invite some looser contacts. This is going to be an ongoing situation – repeated exposure will not cause your husband to suddenly get interested in this kind of event. It’s time to cultivate some friends who will share the experience with you! I suggest you ask your husband if he wants to accompany you to one or two (mostly so he won’t feel cut out).
Senior Attorney
I agree with this. Find yourself a classical music buddy!
Senior Attorney
But failing that, next choice is go alone.
Classical junkie
I wish I had a classical music buddy to go to concerts with. My husband will always go with me but is rather “meh” about it because it isn’t really his thing. Maybe you should say what city and see if any ‘Rettes would like to join–it could be a fun way to meet someone new!
Ellen
I would LOVE to have some one to go to classical concerts with in NYC. My Dad took me to the Met Opera when I was little girl, and I still remember going to the NYC Opera each year to watch the Nutcracker Suite with Mom and Rosa. I always loved the dance of the sugarplum faries, and Rosa was cute enough for people to think she could have been a ballerina there. Dad laughed at me when I said I could also, but he made me feel good when he said I had the brains, if not Rosa’s good looks.
Senior Attorney
Haha jinx!
Anon
My enjoyment decreases if I have to drag my SO along when he doesn’t want to go, so I see plays, concerts, operas, etc. alone pretty frequently. I don’t mind at all, but I’m also a person who enjoys going to dinner alone.
Anon
Absolutely go alone! You can get some really great single seats, and besides, you’ll be in the dark listening to music. It doesn’t matter if you’re with someone or not.
Go and have a blast!
Vicky Austin
I took myself to the symphony in college all the time – it was delightful.
Anon
I would absolutely go alone. I love doing this kind of thing by myself.
I Enjoy My Own Company
definitely go alone! Is there a reason why you don’t want to go alone? Something you can articulate?
Are you nervous about being alone? Or is it insecurity? (you know the old adage that literally no one is paying attention to you more than you are paying attention to yourself)
I’ve taken myself to rap and rock concerts, ballets, movies, etc all alone because like you, my spouse isn’t interested and I almost find that I enjoy these things when I get to experience them personally and by myself. Plus it’s always fun to share the new experience with others later.
Carrie
Yes, I go alone all the time. Why do you need to go with someone? In fact, I would never drag a partner around to classical music concerts if they didn’t enjoy them, as it is somewhat selfish and I would stress about it (are they having a good time?) and they would likely complain later etc… Just… no. It’s even worse than dragging your spouse shopping with you.
I understand your wish that he could enjoy this with you too. But honestly, if you don’t have a taste for classical music by adulthood, it is less likely they will pick it up as an adult forced to go to intimate concerts. And large symphonic concerts/outdoor festivals tend to be more accessible than chamber music/piano recitals, which can be painful.
It’s time for you to start making some new music friends. Why don’t you check out your local classical music Meet-Up gathering?
And start playing classical music at home, in the background more often. Sometimes this can lead to appreciation slowly, over time.
Cb
I’d put a call out to some friends but absolutely go alone. Have a nice glass of wine beforehand and revel in the fact that you’re not worrying about whether your husband is enjoying himself!
Anon
My husband goes to car shows alone because I can’t be dragged through one more interminable car show. I go to book readings and classical concerts alone because he can’t be dragged to any more of those. It’s totally okay to go places by yourself; it’s not an admission of loserdom, or whatever certain folks may think.
Anon
My husband will nod at your husband at car shows, but I will not be there to witness it.
Anonymous
I would ask my husband if he’d come to one with me, the same as I occasionally attend a sporting event with him, and otherwise go alone.
Fire
I go alone unless I know someone else who would enjoy the specific thing. I saw Hamilton alone and I was in HEAVEN. I bring a book for intermission.
Anonymous
Go alone for sure! FYI, I work for a theater company, and it is really bothersome to actors when people are sleeping in the audience. Yes they can see you if you are close to the stage. It happens, they understand, but it also can really throw them.
Anon
I also eat at restaurants alone all the time, FWIW. I think being comfortable in public alone is a muscle we all need to develop.
OP
I REALLY need to develop this muscle. I’m severely introverted and have a chronic illness, so I just don’t have the friendships I used to. I end up just not doing the things my husband isn’t interested in doing.
Anon
Doing things alone is great for introverts!
Anon
Of course I would go alone. I’m not going to let my spouse’s interests dictate what I get to enjoy. Being alone in public is totally fine, I guarantee nobody will look at you or even notice you. It’s not embarrassing and it’s something all adults should be capable of.
Anon
I have solo season tickets to my city’s Broadway season. I convinced DH to go to Hamilton because he’s a history buff, but otherwise I go alone because he has no interest in theater and I don’t really have local girlfriends either. I kind of love going alone, and don’t think it’s weird at all. Maybe people are secretly judging me, but no one has ever said anything.
Anon
Also even if people were secretly judging you (which they’re not; they don’t care enough about you) who cares? Why would you let what some random stranger thinks about you affect what you’re doing?
LaurenB
I’d go alone. I don’t see why I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t bother dragging someone who wouldn’t care about it. What would be wrong with going alone??
Anon
Going alone will be awesome! If you feel unsure how to spend the time before and during intermission, bring a book or magazine. Or, this is a good way to spend time with someone you are trying to get to know better because there isn’t much talking, and you automatically have something to talk about – I often will ask a casual work friend or family friend or some loose contact like that to the theater for this reason. Usually it doesn’t work out because it’s hard to make schedules align but people are always pleased to be asked.
Seeking GYN reccommendations in NOVA
Just changed insurance and am looking for recommendations for GYNs in NOVA, preferably BCBS-affiliated. TIA!
Belle Boyd
I say yes, go alone! I’ve done it. I was interested in going to a concert at a small venue and couldn’t talk any of my friends into going with me. I didn’t want to miss the show, so I took myself on a date. I was amazed at how much I enjoyed the evening! I was able to thoroughly immerse myself in the show experience and I did end up with a really great seat! If it were a huge venue, I probably wouldn’t have done this, but being this was a small venue, I felt perfectly comfortable. I highly recommend doing this to anyone considering this option!
Anon
For those of you who left the law, particularly after approximately 3 years, did you have feelings of, why did I even go to law school? Or feel that you had disappointed family/yourself/etc in leaving the law? I’m a corporate lawyer and having thoughts that I *really* dislike many things about practicing (ignoring the client service part; I understand the unpredictability tends to get better as you get more senior), largely the drafting and marking up agreements. That does not bring me any joy…
January
That’s totally understandable. Have you considered changing practice areas or looking for other types of work? I’ve changed practice areas and firms (not at the same time, by the way), and both changes have been for the good. By the time I left my previous firm, I was pretty sure I didn’t want to practice law anymore, but I’m happier at my current firm and not entertaining thoughts of leaving practice anymore (at least not at the moment).
Anonymous
I had feelings of this starting about in Y3 (loved clerking, BigLaw not so much). But I found my groove in a niche area and am still at it, 20+ years later. What kept me in: loans. I made a deal with myself that I couldn’t quit until I had paid off law school and by that time, I was doing something I liked enough to make peace with the occasional bad boss / co-worker / opposing counsel and the wildly unpredictable schedule.
I am going through this now as Stepkid has announced a new desire to go to law school (like after more than a decade of having no interest at all). It is a ton of $, a ton of opportunity cost, and being a lawyer is not like being in school. I feel like it is all a sunk cost once you’re out. But you’ve got to have a good plan if you’re going to bail — you can’t often easily resume practicing and you can’t afford to strike out again. What’s your plan B? Does it pay well? If not, I am often reminded that I’ve been abused for minimum wage and even if I am miserable, I can afford to keep a roof over my head and feed myself and eventually retire.
Fire
Change jobs or practice areas before leaving the altogether. That way you will know whether the problem is your specific situation or the practice of law itself.
Senior Attorney
I second this. I was desperate to leave law in my second year and I’m glad I stuck it out.
Anon
I left after 6 years, but some of them I was un- or underemployed, so only 4 years in Big Law.
I don’t regret it. I made ~$800k in Big Law and even with high taxes and life in a VHCOL city, I saved roughly 1/3rd of it. A chunk went to my (admittedly relatively small) law school loans, but the rest became a huge portion of my eventual house purchase, so I was able to buy a house (in a cheaper area) with a very small mortgage. Having almost no housing costs has offset the pay cut I took when I left law. I’m sure there are people who think I wasted my degree, but I don’t really care. Practicing law, even for such a short time, gave me a financial boost that has made it possible for me to work in a much lower-paying field that I enjoy more.
Anonymous
While I left after 8 years, not 3, and from a boutique rather than big law, of course I had those thoughts. 3.5 years later, I still do from time to time. Currently in a jd-preferred role where some coworkers don’t have jds, and clearly made it to the same place as me. What I tell myself is my law degree gave me CHOICES and allowed me to find the right job for ME. And I love my current life!! What was also helpful, and I recommend, was doing a gazillion informational interviews before I left my job. I was moving, so I spoke with lawyers in my same practice area and a bunch of others in my new market. All of them either (a) were miserable and trying to get out or (b) described a life I did not want for myself. Whenever I have doubts, I reflect on those conversations!
Nope
Not to the OP but a related point. I find it very frustrating to see so many people from HYS and other top law schools go into the law for just a few years, only to leave it altogether (often times for something not remotely related to the law). There are so many other people who know they want to be lawyers and will never get the chance to get that kind of education. It just seems like those people have taken up a spot and wasted it altogether.
Housecounsel
If you had 3 or 4 days only to spend in Italy, where would you go and why?
NOLA
I would go to the smaller food cities in the Emilia Romagna region – Modena, Parma, etc. I would love to explore that area more! Amazing food. OR, I would go to Milan and Turin and rent a car and go to my family’s ancestral very small town. OR, depending on time of year, I would spend 3 or 4 days in Venice, because I’ve never been.
anon
Florence, but that’s because I love Florence. My thinking though would be it’s not too far from an international airport, so you’re not spending too much of your few days on travelling, and it’s a small enough city you could feel like you’d got to know it a little in 3-4 days. You could definitely cram that many days with world-class cultural highlights but I would pick two or maybe three things and spend the rest of the time wandering, drinking coffee in the squares, and eating ice cream.
Gail the Goldfish
Depends-have you been before and what are your interests? If you’ve never been, I would say Florence, because I just loved Florence the most of the major tourist destination cities.
Housecounsel
I have never been anywhere in Italy and want to go everywhere in Italy! I like wine and food and looking at beautiful landscapes and buildings!
Gail the Goldfish
You honestly can’t go wrong with any part of Italy! (how one country smaller than the state of California managed to cram in some much good stuff, I have no idea, but they did). I think Florence would be awesome, but I would look up the major tourist sites in Venice, Florence, and Rome and see which appeals to you most and go with that. You can get good food and wine anywhere in Italy (do make reservations at restaurants if you can). This may be too fast-paced for some, but you could do 2 days in Venice and 2 days in Florence, or 2 days in Rome and 2 in Florence. It’s a little over 2 hours from Venice to Florence by train, and just under an hour and a half from Florence to Rome, and super easy.
Never too many shoes...
If it was not high tourist/flood season, Venice for sure. It is just unlike anywhere else and pretty magical.
Daffodil
+1 to Venice- there’s no where else like it.
For something a bit more off the beaten path, and especially if you’re a foodie, I very much enjoyed Bologna. You can do day trips or tours to many small towns nearby – I did a day tour where we went to a balsamic producer, prosciutto manufacturer, and parmigiano reggiano producer. There are also a lot of small towns in the area with almost no tourists, if you prefer to get away from the masses.
Em
+1 It is my favorite city
Senior Attorney
+1 it’s magical and indescribable.
Another anon
I’m not sure you can go wrong in Italy … here are two more ideas:
– Rome: I was there for 2 nights/1.5 days last summer before flying home and LOVED it. Could have spent much more time there.
– Dolomites: to answer your original question, this is where I’d go. It’s probably not what first comes to mind when people first think of Italian travel, but if you like mountains, hiking, or the outdoors even in the slightest, it’s truly amazing. I was also just there last summer for 4 days and would go back in a heartbeat.
For me, Venice and Florence (on other trips) were also good and I’m glad I saw them, but I thought that 1-2 days of each was plenty. FWIW, all these were solo trips added on after a conference.
Anon
Rome, because I can fly non stop (from Chicago) and it’s one of my favorite cities ever. With that short a time frame I would prioritize non-stop flights.
Cat
I would probably choose Venice. Venice gets pooh-pooh’d a lot as a tourist trap with bad food, but spending 3-4 days there would be relaxing, fun, and unique — when all the cruise ship day trippers withdraw to their boats, wandering around the back streets in search of cicchetti is amazing :)
With 4 days you could feel you’d done Venice justice. Other areas, like Florence + Tuscany or Rome or Naples + Amalfi or Milan + the lakes or Cinque Terre or Bologna and town-hopping…… I’d feel rushed trying to feel like I’d truly experienced the area on that short a timeframe!
Anon
4 days is perfect for Rome imo. You won’t have time for day trips, but you can see the city itself very well.
Nesprin
Siena because it’s my favorite city in the world- you’d have enough time to wander around and eat gelato, do the touristy stuff in florence for a day (~1hr bus), and wander out into chianti and drink all the wine. Bonus fact- the enoteca italiana is in siena- it’s a government supported wine bar which sells the top 200 italian wines at grower’s cost.
NYCer
Rome or Florence (could add a day trip to Siena, it’s an easy drive).
Anonymous
Cinque Terra! It is touristy but not too touristy, each of the 5 towns is diff from the rest, chill vibes with great food….
Anonymous
Florence, and add day trip to Pisa.
Anon
Florence had so many American when we were there. Venice is touristy but so unique– you also get a lot more international and Italian tourists. You could easily spend 4 days in Venice with a day trip to the islands (Murano, Burano, etc.) or do a day trip to Verona (one hour by train).
Anonymous
Anyone here make the transition from litigation to working as in house compliance counsel? Wondering if this transition makes sense for me but not sure I fully understand the job of compliance counsel.
Anokha
I did. It helped that I had worked on enforcement actions prior to going in-house. It took me like six months to find a job.
BGF
My company (large financial services firm) has a compliance department that is full of lawyers. There is certainly a natural connection and you can be highly successful with lots of upward mobility, but you have to be comfortable with giving up your legal hat. It can be very hard to go back if things don’t work out.
Anon
If you are looking at a role like the one my former company just posted, make sure you ask lots of questions about the tone from the top and understand what level of buy-in there is from senior executives around the compliance program.
NOLA
Based on some social media posts and the reaction of new guy, I’m beginning to wonder if I’m a complete outlier. I make my bed every day. I just like to have it put back in order for the day and I also come back up to my bedroom in the morning and have coffee sitting on my bed before I get ready for work. It’s very pretty made, with pillows and throws, so it feels right to me. I even made the bed when new guy was staying in a hotel longer term. I would get up and straighten the bed and get the sheets and duvet back in place. Am I nuts? I mean, I realize that guys are different – unlike my ex, he eats in bed and takes over the whole bed on the weekends. especially after I get up. I love it that he’s completely relaxed at my house, but he clearly thinks I’m weird and I think that more of my women friends are similar than I knew.
Cb
If I’m on my own, I definitely tidy up the bed if not completely make it and straighten it when I’m in a hotel. I just don’t like an unmade bed. I haven’t been great about it lately though, my son likes to hang out in our bed when we’re getting dressed. And it definitely annoys me to come home to an unmade bed.
NOLA
For sure! That’s part of it. I want to come home to a tidied bedroom and made bed.
Anonymous
Nope. Same. Make the bed every-darn-day.
Anon
I make my bed. I hang out on my bed and read after dinner so if I came home to it not made, I would have to make it then anyway. I like to come home and see the made bed and feel that aaah feeling.
Anonymous
I am of the Admiral McRaven school right along with you: a good day starts with a made bed
Ribena
Me too. I also have a bad habit of getting back into my bed to eat my breakfast but I might take your lead and make my bed and then sit on it to drink my coffee/ eat my breakfast. I like the way my bed looks when it’s properly made.
Never too many shoes...
At home, absolutely. In a hotel though, never.
anon8
Same.
NOLA
Well, honestly, he was staying there long term – living in a suite. And he never had maid service, so I felt better about at least straightening the bed!
Housecounsel
Not making the bed is one thing. EATING in bed is a whole other thing! Nooooooo!
NOLA
He’s pretty cute so I cut him some slack… and I usually strip the bed and wash everything after he leaves on Sundays.
make your bed
I do this. My husband thinks it’s pointless, but I still do it. It takes less than 2 minutes. It always makes me uncomfortable when I’m randomly at someone’s house and see their unmade bed, so I make mine because I don’t want to risk people feeling that way at my house. Of course unplanned guests are rare, but you can see our bed from the hall, so if I have to run home to meet a plumber or something it makes it less awkward. ( I know the plumber probably does not notice, and I’m likely being irrational )
Anon
I make the bed every day and definitely at least straighten things out at a hotel. I only started when I lived in a studio and it made a huge difference in the overall appearance/atmosphere of the apartment to have the bed made. And then I kept up the habit because I realized I like it tidier.
Anonymous
Apparently I’m alone in this, but I would never make my bed. The only thing I do in my bedroom is sleep – no TV/eating/reading/etc. I would get up, get dressed, shut the door to my bedroom and not see the bed again until I went to sleep. I flail around a lot when I sleep so the bed gets really messed up anyway, so I always figured…why fix it? When I lived on my own I lived in an impossibly tiny 1 bedroom rather than a larger studio simply because I feel so strongly about my bedroom being for sleeping only.
However, my husband is a bed maker, so now I make the bed when I get up and we also straighten the bed in hotels. I miss my days of never making the bed though!
Messy beds forever!
+1 You are not alone… I have a 3 year old and I dont plan to ever ask her to make her bed either. What a waste of time! And it’s not that I’m a particularly messy person; I clear up after myself in most situations where I think it makes sense. My husband who is also pretty organized and way better than me at clearing up, doesn’t see the point of making the bed either.
CountC
I make the bed at home and if I am staying in a hotel. It makes the room look and feel neater and, at least in my head, keeps it cleaner.
Cat
Make the bed daily at home or in Airbnbs, etc with no maid service.
In hotels, I don’t fully make the bed, but do pull the bedding up so that it’s not all over the floor and in the way of getting ready. Easier not to lose stuff in messy covers that way.
Jeffiner
So apparently I’m the outlier. I never make my bed. Ideally I would turn the blankets and sheets over the footboard every morning so the sheets air out and the bed looks neat, but I do not “make the bed” until I’m ready to sleep in it at night. Making the bed in the morning feels very traditional in a “I’m doing this because someone else thinks I’m supposed to” and not in a “I’m doing this because its always such a good idea” way
Anon
I also feel like this. I am almost defiant in my refusal to make our bed. We only make it if A). the house-cleaners do B). someone is coming over, and could go into our room, and I care (like a contractor estimating a bid or my Mom) C). I have a once-a-year cleaning urge, usually related to my anxiety flaring up.
Anon
This is basically me too
Anonymous
Never, ever make the bed. Don’t spend any time in my bedroom except for sleeping, and don’t like to sleep with tucked-in covers, so neither spouse nor I sees the point. The only time I would is , ie, traveling for work and need to host people in my hotel room for work.
Anonome
I specifically pull the sheets all the way back to air out the bed during the day. IMO a “properly” made bed is just tucking in your night’s moisture and odors.
LaurenB
That’s how I grew up as well — you air the bed by turning down the sheets. Maybe in the mid-afternoon you then make it, but you definitely air it out. I don’t know if this is specifically cultural in nature?
Cat
Ha, I am a daily bed-maker but I leave the covers turned down for ~2 hours (the rest of the morning routine) so it’s aired out before I make it!
The original Scarlett
I make the bed every day at home, but my husband wouldn’t if it was just him. In a hotel, no if there’s maid service but sometimes I’ll skip that and still make the bed. Airbnb, always make just like at home. Makes me feel put together.
anon
Therapist rec in Boston? Preferably a woman, focus on relationship issues/divorce?
Anon
Anne Welsh https://drannewelsh.com/
Elizabeth Anderson https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/elizabeth-anderson-cambridge-ma/41995
Moms of school-aged kids
Ugh — today schools are closed and the usual care facility is also closed. I found a YMCA field trip to put them on from 9:30-4 today so I can go to work (spouse’s business is also open), on my side of the city so I have to do both pickup and drop off, and send lunch + snacks. Friday is a teacher workday. Older kiddo will age out of care facility next year (age goes up to 11 or grade 5). I do not know how I am going to manage — I WFH a ton already and would rather work in the office (vs trying to coordinate play dates or activities; otherwise, kiddos just get 8 hours of screentime or wind up cranky by dinner) vs more WFH (or working into the night so I can try to give them some QOL).
WFH when they are sick — all screen time / TV limits go out the door
But teacher work days are at least 2-3 days a quarter it seems
And then we have snow days, hurricane days, missing work for dr appointments, dentist, orthodontist, etc.
I am thinking that the slog is just going to be a think I need to make peace with (and while I could ask for and get an 80% schedule, it would just be a 20% pay cut because you have to be on-call for when the work comes in, so that’s not any real solution it seems).
And I’m not sure an au pair, etc. would help when I need FT care but not on any scheduled basis and usually could use only a minimal amount of help a week (<5 hours). Kiddos won't be old enough to just be left alone for another couple of years; neighborhood kids are generally not even school-aged yet.
Housecounsel
These are a huge challenge, but I don’t think you need to beat yourself up about screen time on these somewhat rare occasions. My middle schooler is here as I work (or surf Corporette), in her pajamas and watching youtube videos and laughing. She has sports practice later so she will get out of the house and move a bit. I am not stressing.
NY CPA
Reading your post (before the last paragraph), I was thinking an au pair / live-in nanny is exactly what you need, if you can afford it. My family had live-in “nannies” (usually girls around college age or just out of college) pretty much every year until I was a senior in high school and could drive myself to school. Their role changes as your kids grow up, but ours always helped with pick ups and drop offs / shuttling to after school activities, making lunches, helped us when we were doing our homework, getting dinner on the table for us, etc. And it was a full-year thing so it solved the problem of summer supervision (though we did go to sleepaway camp for a few weeks every summer and they would get those few weeks off).
Never too many shoes...
As ever, I have to ask – why is this all on you? You found the camp, are doing drop off and pick up and sent the lunch/snacks…what exactly is your spouse doing, apart from just getting dressed and going to work?
Anonymous
OP here — it’s available in the part of the city I work in, a half an hour drive each way for him. So today, to avoid the deadweight loss, I am doing the driving. I wish there were similar programs (or any programs) near where he works, but there aren’t. Today, I have the short straw but I don’t always. I have different short straws as I have the job with less face time and more flexibility, but there are plusses and minuses to that (OTOH, spouse can take sick leave to care for kids, so does that on the days I have to be at work or have travel). One day is not a representative slice, no?
Never too many shoes...
OP you’re right, it’s not. But I see these comments all the time where not only does the woman do the thing but also finds the thing and worried about the thing. And your post talks about the slog you will have when the kids are a bit bigger, which just makes me wonder where the other person fits into the work of parenting and child care.
Anon
An 11 year old may be too young to be left in the house entirely alone, but they’re perfectly capable of entertaining themselves without screentime. I don’t see what’s wrong with WFH and telling them they have to read or do homework or find some other non-screen activity to occupy themselves – maybe not for 8 hours straight, but certainly for a big chunk of the day, so they’re not screen zombies for the entire day. Honestly, my 4 year old can do that.
Anon
FWIW I grew up in the late 90s, and I started staying home alone on school-free days at 11. It was also common in my upper-middle-class North East US community for kids 11 and above to be “latch-key” kids after school/after-school activities. The benefits were that I learned how to work on my homework alone, and learned how to independently entertain myself, which meant I didn’t find it novel to be “unsupervised” in late high school and early college. We all ended up at top 15 universities and are now successful adults, because these are all traits, abilities, and outcomes are correlated.
Anon
Completely agree with all of this.
cHal
iF question: I have been trying an 11 to 7 eating window but finding 7 pm difficult. Some nights I don’t get home from the gym til 7:30 and DH has been experimenting with cooking but he’s slooooow so sometimes dinner is late then. Has anyone tried noon to 9? Obviously I’d rather eat earlier and will if I can, but are some of the benefits lost by eating that close to bedtime?
Anon
What do people think of the NYT’s double endorsement? People are making fun of them for it, but to me it makes perfect sense – they’re saying if you’re progressive the right choice is Warren and if you’re more of a centrist the right choice is Klobuchar. Seems entirely logical and self-aware of the deep policy divisions within the Democratic party, and I love that both choices are women I really respect and admire.
Anonymous
I mean, it’s pretty ridiculous that they endorsed someone who’s polling nationally at 2% when they could have just…not
Anon
National polls are kind of meaningless at this point, because anyone who finishes in the top 3 in Iowa will automatically become a serious contender, and Klobuchar is doing much better there than nationally. I am actually from Iowa and know a surprising number of people who are supporting her.
Anonymous
I feel like this has been discussed somewhere but I can’t find the thread. I am going on a vacation at the end of this week for mental health reasons (clinically burnt out), but I have not disclosed those reasons to my firm. I am afraid I am going to be asked to do work during my vacation and I simply can’t – the whole reason I am going away is because I am absolutely at my wit’s end with this job and need a true break from work. I am looking for another job but in the mean time, this is the only way I’m keeping myself afloat. Do you just put an out of office email that indicates you won’t have email service and then ignore all emails that come in? Or do you respond to emails during your vacation that you can address whatever is being asked of you upon your return? I would really like to (and feel like I need to) unplug from my phone and not even read emails for the week so that my poor overworked mind can get a real break, but I don’t want to come back and get fired for not responding while away. Biglaw mid-level associate if relevant. Help!
Go for it
This is a version of my vacation autoresponder:
I am out of the office from X until Y and am unable to receive or respond to emails or phone calls. I will return to the office on Z.
If there is a pressing matter you may contact
XX at email address.
Take yourself off the grid and heal.
Squid
This is what I do, after I’ve cleared it with my manager. IANAL and my team is pretty collaborative: we have a group email and everyone picks up what they can, when they can.
Anon
I think you find a trusted person in your office to ask.
This also depends on your practice area and workload.
Absent your firm giving people actual vacation, set aside some time every day to answer emails (ex., 45 minutes, after breakfast) and let people know when matters will be addressed.
Anonymous
OP here – unfortunately one of the issues I am so burnt out is that I don’t have a single “trusted person” in my office, so am largely on my own in that respect. There are only two associates in the group and the other associate is junior to me and we are not close. Hence me reaching out to internet strangers for help lol! For context, I have been extremely busy but am making sure I wrap up everything that is ongoing before I leave. I have also reminded partners many times that I will be away as of the end of this week. My concern arises because the culture here is one of people who remain available and work during their vacations, and this vacation can’t be that way for the sake of my health.
Anonymous
You need to tell the partners you work for that you won’t be reachable. You can’t just cross your fingers and hope.
Anonymous
this is why people go off the grid. Sorry, I’d love to help but i’ll be in Antarctica with limited connectivity! Silent meditation retreat with no phones?
Anon
How many pants do you have in your closet each season, and are duplicates OK?
I recently bought 3 more of my favorite fall/spring/summer pants on sale ($30 vs. $90 each) to add to the two pairs I wear 4x a week and think I will likely wear out this year. Last year I did the same (with more casual summer-only pants that I had owned for two years), but then I found I wasn’t wearing the pants as much as the previous years because they didn’t fit as well anymore and I didn’t feel they were appropriate for my job after a promotion. The result is that I then have five pairs of pants that I didn’t prefer and now have to donate. Am I repeating this mistake?
Anonymous
Of course duplicates are OK.
If you only have two pair of pants, and you wear pants most days of the week, of course it’s OK to buy more.
Go for it
Hmm, no I think you’ll be fine, though it’s probably best to stop here and take a hard look at the pairs currently in your rotation for signs of wear. Maybe the new ones can go into circulation sooner.
As pants are a challenge for me I do buy in doubles when I find a good fit and always in black regardless of season. I wear pants 2x week and dresses/skirts the rest of the time.
anon
5 pairs of pants is not a lot and I always buy doubles and different colors of same style….our styles change as our job changes, as we get promoted, and as we evolve….don’t sweat it
Anon
I think you’re taking the capsule wardrobe/minimalism thing way too seriously if you have to ask a bunch of internet strangers whether having a completely normal 5 pairs of pants is “OK”.
Anonymous
If you are wearing 2 pairs of.pants 4x per week, I think having more of those pants is perfectly reasonable. I can’t answer your question about the number of pants – too many to track – but I definitely have duplicates of the ones I wear most so I always have a clean pair to wear for which I know I have a matching top and jacket.
anon
How do Reiss’ shoes run? I wear a 35 in M.Gemi where most of my shoes are from, and I think I wear a 6 in brooks brothers, 6.5 in Cole Haan. Could I wear a 5 in Reiss? That’s the only size left in these black flats I want.