ByElizabeth Hours Updated
Comments 352 Comments

Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Graiyce Blazer Cardigan

Navy ruffled effect blazer

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Where do we stand on peplums these days, folks? For a year or two, you couldn’t walk into a department store without a full-scale peplum assault, but then it seemed like the popular opinion swung pretty strongly in an anti-peplum direction. Personally, I don’t mind them, particularly when they’re incorporated into a slightly cropped jacket like this one from Ted Baker. Five years ago, I probably would have worn this with a pencil skirt, but today, I like the look of pairing it with high-waisted pants.

The jacket is $225 and comes in Ted Baker sizes 0-5 (roughly 00-14).

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Sales of note for 12.3.24 (lots of Cyber Monday deals extended, usually until 12/3 at midnight)

352 Comments

      1. Same! I’m so intrigued that other hour glasses said that peplum worked for them. They do not work for me. Something about creating an artificial shape over top of my already generously curvy one hasn’t worked.

    2. I kind of agree, but not because of pregnancy — I wish! But Elizabeth makes a good comment that I also agree with. She said that “five years ago, I probably would have worn this with a pencil skirt, but today, I like the look of pairing it with high-waisted pants.” Me too. Now, largely b/c of the pandemic, I have both a larger tuchus and a pooch up front that I need to cover as best I can. All of my pencil skirts are tight in the rear, and I do not like looking like I’ve lived at a pizza parlor for the last 24 months. So a longer blazer or high waisted pants like Elizabeth suggests helps a lot. Also, I guess that now, even Elizabeth is showing some mid-30’s spread that needs to be covered so that men will focus on her pretty face and not below the boobie line, as they do with me. The key, I’ve learned, is to force men to look us in the eye, and as long as we are well put together above the neck, there should be no reason for them to be focusing below, into areas they have no business speculating on. It is only when we decide they are worthy enough to return to our apartments that they can look down there, because of things work out, as we expect, both of us will soon have nothing to hide.

    3. I agree that peplums are outdated. Alas, because I am curvy (small, but small curvy) and a peplum top is one of my best looks as it highlights my hourglass shape.

      1. Peplums are definitely back in. The Hunter Bell collection is full of them and made me want one again.

        1. I would love to rock my black leather with knit back for perfect fit peplum top again. You are giving me hope. I love the badass, feminine vibe.

      2. +1 they are super flattering on my shape. And I love this jacket if I had a need for it.

      3. Yup, another hourglass who likes peplums (when they hit at my natural waist). I’m happy to hear they might be coming back!

      4. +1 to them being a flattering shape on an hourglass body. I prefer to think of them as timeless… Jackets from the Victorian to mid-century often had a peplum shape (even if it wasn’t a flouncy/ruffled version), so I am not bothered about wearing them in and out of their ‘of the moment’ trendiness.

      5. I think of peplums as a design element which is fundamentally classic but goes on and off trend. So some years tons of people are wearing them but other years it’s just the diehards.

        I’m firmly on team “wear what you love” so if it helps anyone this internet stranger supports your peplum love (or lack thereof).

    4. I’ve always loved them, probably because I’m shaped like a rectangle and it gives me a little shape. Maybe I’ll take dated and cute over current and dowdy?

      1. I am ruler-shaped (tallish, smallish, straight up and down) and don’t find peplums flattering at all. Since my waist doesn’t taper in dramatically above the peplum, it just looks like a ruffle stuck on a rectangle.

    5. +1 I actually think this is a beautiful jacket and peplums executed in the best possible way, however it still feels very outdated to me. But I also never liked peplums when they were trendy and everywhere.

    6. Peplum seems very outdated. I have one too that is technically peplum but falls down more than out so I can still wear it.

    7. I love peplums, although I never considered if they make me look pregnant. It just seems like a fun detail. I would wear this blazer.

    8. Indeed. I had basically this exact jacket with 3/4 sleeves in a merlot color in 2010 when I was a first year associate.

    9. Ha, I like them, and in fact am wearing a sleeveless top with a subtle peplum silhouette today. Fortunately, I doubt more than 2% of my industry is even aware of what is trendy or not, so I will continue to wear them!

    10. I agree that how flattering it looks on someone is a very individual thing, but I like the way peplums can give a slightly tailored vintage/period vibe.

    11. I like this one! I think peplums like this are great – it adds structure and fits well proportionally with the shoulders of the garment. I think sheath dresses with randomly added peplums are very outdated, so the garment matters.

    12. Peplums are a part of my wardrobe aesthetic so I wear them regardless of whether they ae in or out.

    13. I have a really short torso and am a pear, so I need high volume not low volume. I just look like an awkward neo-victorian person with a peplum :(

    14. Agree. They look nice on some people, but I’m definitely not one of them!

    15. Peplums are for short people. They always hit me too high and make me look pregnant, too.

    16. I have no opinion on peplums, but am confused about usage of the word. I have seen people say, The dress has peplum, or, as below, Peplum seems very outdated. Shouldn’t it be, The dress has A peplum? Or, PeplumS seem very outdated? Like, you wouldn’t say, The dress has ruffle, or Ruffle seems very outdated?

      Is the word peplum intrinsically plural?

    18. I love a subtle peplum and will keep wearing them regardless of trends. It feels like a modern classic as long as it’s a restrained silhouette.

    19. I love them. I am shaped like a carrot, so they give me the appearance of hips. Even if they are outdated, I’ll keep wearing them!

    20. I generally find peplums to be super flatttering and the long jackets that are currently in-style NOT at all flattering. I’m 5’4″ and have a pretty straight figur.

  2. I will have next weekend in Berlin on my own (coming from the US). I’ll be staying by the zoo- any suggestions for interesting tours, good sites, etc? I hope to figure out public transportation so open to metroing. Any and all suggestions welcome!

    1. I LOVE Berlin! There are some standard tourist sites you can go see: Checkpoint Charlie, Holocaust Memorial, Berlin wall etc. But off the beaten path, I thought Treptower Park was really interesting with giant Soviet era statues. It’s also a great city to just hang out and do city things like sit at a cafe, go shopping etc.

      1. Yes definitely! We stayed in prenzlauerberg and it was so much fun. Lovely cafe scene and cute shops.

    2. Not so much a place, but one cool thing to do in Berlin is to listen to music about/recorded in Berlin while you walk around. David Bowie famously recorded three albums in Berlin–Heroes, Low, and another one I do not remember offhand. U2’s Achtung Baby was very much inspired by Berlin and includes a song called Zoo Station about the Berlin Tiergarten station. And for classical, listen to Bach’s Brandenburg Concertos, which he wrote for the Duke of Brandenburg, while you walk under the Brandenburg gate.

    3. Places to eat: Tiergartenschleuse (Biergarten, great to hang although service can be slow), Chum’s (Vietnamese, used to take only cash), Fiaker (Café to sit and relax), Eschenbräu (awesome Biergarten, not super close to you but easy to reach with subway).
      https://www.berliner-unterwelten.de/en/index.html provides awesome tours viewing the city from below. Different topics e.g. history of the subway, the air raid bunkers, refugees escaping through tunnels under the Berlin wall. You can check their calendar for which tours are offered.

    4. I’m always recommending this, but I’ve had great luck with private tours from toursbylocals dot com. They can be a bit pricey but I’ve never been disappointed.

    5. Hop on a bike and take a tour of Tiergarten, then stop for a beer at Café am Neuen See. Have fun!

    6. I live in Berlin and would suggest you spend some time in Prenzlauer Berg (brunch at Anna Blume or drinks at Kapitalist), walk the Mauerverlauf in the neighborhood; walk the Landwehr Canal in Kreuzberg and get breakfast at La Maison or dinner at Kimchi Princess/Zum Mittenhofer; go to lunch at Clarchens or snack at Zeit fur Brot near Augustr (great shopping around there- Kauf Dich Glucklich, Fete de La Boutique). Def see Brandenburger Tor at night when it’s lit up. In Tiergarten, Schleusen Krug is a nice biergarten.

  3. Is anyone taking advantage of the end of summer/start of fall to implement new systems, routines, organizations? I just completely reorganized my kids’ rooms and playrooms in a way that I hope will serve us better this fall. I’m also looking forward to putting away my summer wardrobe this weekend and transitioning into fall weights and colors. Curious to know what others are doing or considering!

      1. It’s fall, summer, and OMG oven-but-humid all in the same day, and freezing inside with the A/C, so I have all my clothes out except for the January ones.

    2. Seriously, where do you live? I’m in NYC and it’s in the 80s for the foreseeable future. I may be in an autumn state of mind, but my body still needs linen and cotton!

      1. 60 at the warmest point of the day here in Scandi. The wool is out of storage.

    3. I’m doing a room by room tidy, and am trying to figure out a better writing routine for the coming teaching term. I’m also eating the cupboards and freezer bare so I can do a big clean and proper restock.

    4. We’ve been sick all of August, so my current organization level is “survive.”

      2. Same. We were traveling beginning of August then my husband had Covid and we were isolating, then we ended the isolation and our 4 year old immediately brought home a vomiting bug from school that we all got. Just trying to survive and catch up over here.

    5. We’ve cleaned out the home office, the kid’s play room, the master bathroom closet, and the garage in the last couple of weeks. I suppose it’s tangentially related to the season–we’re finished with summer vacation and have been home, my parents came for a visit and helped out with the kid and around the house, and hurricane season is coming up (which meant I wanted to be able to pull my car into the garage). I don’t switch my wardrobe around for the seasons, but I moved school uniforms into Kiddo’s dresser and put the swimsuits he was wearing to camp in a top drawer.

    6. I did a much needed deep clean of my pantry. Now I have some meal ideas to use up the last dregs of obscure grains that I have and the two sheets of nori and the 1/2 bag of black eye peas and… so much other stuff that I had forgotten about. And I tossed the obscure ingredients that my husband likes to buy for me because he thinks it’s cute (hello.. lotus bulbs? And honey panko?) I hadn’t realized how much of a burden these things were. And I set up a snack bin for my kids in the hopes that they will be more helpful in packing their own lunches. I did not label the spices with my label maker… that will be for another time.

    7. Trying to meet myself where I’m at more often. So figuring out systems, organization that fits into the habits I already have and only introducing new routines in a way that I’ll realistically stick with. So My bags, purses, sunglasses, shoes etc are unusually dumped in a pile at the door. Not put away into closets. So I just got an over the door hook and a basket next to the door to at least be able to dump everything in the same location, just not on the floor.
      I had a laundry basket that was a collapsible bag, no real structure so tossing laundry in a hamper took .5 seconds longer than I wanted. replace with a wider open basket, Easy free throw.

      Mission for the fall is replace living room rug. current one is the sweater rug from west elm, the wool shedding is only getting worse and I’m sick of the extra dust and vacuuming after 6 years. hopefully will save time chasing fuzz balls around.

      1. this is 100% the way to be successful with organizing. We do most errands on foot and don’t wear shoes in the house, and so our MVP shoes would always collect by the door along with a small pile of reusable shopping bags, boxes to be dropped at UPS, etc.

        Adding a slim shoe cabinet with pretty baskets on top was life-changing.

          2. Ikea- the Hemnes collection. We chose the style that had the narrow drawer + the cabinets in order to keep keys, masks, etc. neat.

    8. I cleaned my kids bedroom and entryway this past week. Sometime this week I want to clean out and organize my front entryway closet. I think I will need to buy some sort of bins for storing winter accessories.

  4. I love peplums. They flatter my figure and I like that they are feminine. I’ll continue to wear them!

  5. I saw a comment on the afternoon thread yesterday about someone wanting to take their mom to Egypt. If you’re interested in a tour group, Gate1 Travel is an option. They skew to an older crowd and my parents have been on numerous trips with them to various destinations. I’ve been on a couple of trips with my family and they are well organized. They are a good option if you want don’t want to a bunch of planning on your own.

    1. Agree with Gate 1! My mom has taken several trips with them and I did one with her. It was very much NOT my speed because of lots of time on buses and a mainly older crowd, but agree that it is well organized and the right level of sightseeing/mobility for a 70 year old.

      1. I guess the question is – does the mom have any mobility concerns? My late 60’s mom is in better physical shape than I am (and most of my peers) thanks to picking up an awesome exercise habit in retirement.

        1. Thank you for saying this, Cat. I am also late 60s and my fitness level and regimen mean I enjoy the rigors of travel as much as in my 30s, 40s and 50s. Maybe more, because now I don’t have the exhaustion of parenting, just career stress.

        2. +1 to Cat. My 70 year old mom is also in better shape than me, and I’m no slouch (for context, I can do ~8-10 mile hikes). It annoys me when people assume 70 year olds have mobility issues or don’t have the energy level for long sightseeing days.

          1. +1

            I live near several aunts and uncles in their 70s, they are so active! Regular 20 mile bike rides, tennis matches, lifting and using cardio machines at the gym, hiking trips, surfing, 5k runs! Many of these folks have been blessed with good health so far, but there’s also a cancer survivor and a triple bypass recipient in this group! And one only stopped water skiing after he tore his ACL in his early 70s!

        3. Yes, thank you! At 70 my mother’s idea of a fun vacation was hiking or a bike-and-barge tour. The closer I get to that age, the more I appreciate her good example.

  6. Please tell me this is normal and I will get over it. I started a new job three weeks ago and I feel really overwhelmed. It’s a step up from my last role in terms of responsibility but I don’t get a lot of direction from my boss (she is new to her role too) so I feel like I’m floundering trying to figure it out. Sometimes I just feel so inadequate.

    2. Three weeks is still really new. It takes me about a year in a new job to feel like I’ve ‘got it’ (and then, hopefully, I’m still learning and growing).

    3. Totally normal! Reassess in 3-6 months to see if you feel better or there are underlying issues with the boss/job/co.

      1. Except remember that (at least for me) I feel the most dumb 3-6 weeks and 4-6 months in. Only then do I start having a clue how things work.

        1. Yes, I always try to remember that for me it really takes a full year to truly evaluate a new job. It takes that long (a full budget cycle) before I’ve done everything twice. I also try to remember that I tend to go through several love/hate cycles of new people that I work with (including bosses) over the first year. It’s hard though! I’m three months into a new job and oscillate between “I made a terrible mistake” and “omg this is so much better” probably… three times a week.

          1. Ha, that is good to know. I’m very much in “I’ve made a huge mistake” mode right now.

    4. If this is who I think it is, you are totally up to the job. It’s just a weird, transitional time for you as well as for the office. It’s hard to go from a job where you know you are slaying to a different environment. Don’t doubt yourself and don’t hesitate to reach out to others who can confirm your instincts.

    5. Agree with everyone else here – this is normal, and in the situation you describe is unfortunately likely to continue for a few months. My best advice is to accept that it feels crappy and to try to make a work friend so that you have someone you feel comfortable with however you’re feeling.

  7. My husband and I have the chance to take a kids-free long weekend away for our anniversary this fall. We want to stay within 2-3 hrs driving distance from DC, and had planned to go to Charlottesville….but, most hotels are already sold out or charging very high rates (and there’s not even a home football game, so we were surprised!). We like to hike/be outdoors and eat good food. For some reason nothing I’m googling seems exciting. Any suggestions?

    1. St. Michael’s MD or Harper’s Ferry WVA or go to the Inn at Little Washington. Even Lexington / Williamsburg will be reasonable vs Charlottesville if you can avoid Homecoming-type weekends and maybe VMI home games.

      1. Seconding St. Michael’s (haven’t been to the others). Fallingwater might be unique? (It’s a touch outside your drive range, but not by much.)

        Plug for my hometown, Philly is great for being a walkable city (plus a great bike trail on the river) with tons of great dining, and fall is the best time to visit!

        1. I was coming here to suggest this as well. Or L’Auberge Provencale in VA which has an excellent restaurant, near State park for hiking, and some wineries.

    2. Fairly outdoorsy recs with a bit more of a drive than you’re aiming for:
      -Harper’s Ferry: cute historic buildings/taverns, excellent hiking into the AT and surrounding ridges. I’ve had good food here, but not exactly a fine dining experience. Most restaurants close early.
      -Dolly Sods Wilderness: great backpacking/hiking area with fairly unique rock formations and beautiful red coloring in the Fall.
      -Seneca Rocks: a few neat day hiking trips around this area. Could also make a pit stop at Spruce Knob, which is WV’s highest peak.

    5. Philadelphia? Can stay in the fancy old school part of town and do cool historic activities, nice restaurants, etc. Bonus is you could take the train up and be car-free for the weekend and enjoy the ride, rather than the stress of driving.

    8. I don’t have any particular suggestions, but anything in the mountains is going to be expensive in the Fall-NC/VA mountains get super busy when the leaves start changing.

    10. This summer we spent our anniversary weekend in a yurt at in Savage River Lodge in Frostburg, MD. We had a great time! We were coming from DC, and I can confirm that it satisfies your driving limit. It was rustic/outdoors oriented but definitely luxurious; there were miles of hiking trails on the property. Nearby there are other things to do including the memorial for flight 93, a pre-revolutionary war fort (which we visited) and more. The owner referred to the region as the “Colorado of Maryland” for its mild summer weather; I found that amusing!

  8. I desperately need some new pillows. Willing to spend money / not just get them from Target. I like firm but recently stayed at a hotel that had pillow that were pretty fluffy, but still had a firmness/structure to them, if that makes any sense at all. Any online retailers that sound like they could fit the bill?

    2. Which hotel? Many of them actually partner with brands and you can buy what you slept on.

    4. I like firm pillows that still have some squish to them, and I really like these from amaz0n: Pillows Standard Size Set of 2, Luxury Velvet Bed Pillows for Sleeping with Adjustable Filling, Hotel Collection Full Size Firm Pillows 2 Pack for Side, Back and Stomach Sleepers, Twin 20″x26″

    8. I’ve had luck with emailing the hotel and asking what they use, in a similar situation.

  9. Is anyone else’s workplace doing a “psychological health and safety” survey right now? Or has anyone been through one of these? If so, did it result in any meaningful changes or was it just fluff?

    1. We had a wellness survey and no changes as of yet. I’m also not sure how many people filled it out because there are just way too many emails asking people to remember to do it.

    2. I would rather see those in middle and high schools (so much post-pandemic drama and stress + hormones and normal teen things) where the teachers and admins are in a position of really needing to step in sometimes vs a workplace. Work isn’t my parent or even my friend — I feel like they should stick to work things, which they are already doing poorly before branching out.

      1. I would really like my employer to solicit and take seriously input from employees on specific things the organization and management can do to make the organizational culture and working environment healthier. Sort of a hybrid of an employee satisfaction survey and a psychological health and safety survey, focusing on the actions/inactions of the employer rather than the feelings of the employees.

        1. Or like survey input from end users about small fixable things that drive people nuts. Also, maybe explain why you are making changes before you make them (we need to move to a new print system b/c ____ and not just to drive you insane).

        2. Heavy on the “take seriously” part. I read (I think in the Culture Study substack) that employees seem to be reporting a pattern of management soliciting input and then doing exactly what they were already planning to do anyway, without addressing any expressed concerns about it. This has largely been my experience too, and at the hospital it was physical safety rather than psychological safety that was being ignored.

          2. This was my concern. I feel like they are going to disregard any meaningful feedback given, and just go the route they already planned (while pretending they involved staff in decision making).

      2. Agree with this. If work wants to make a dent in mental health, it can do things like focus on a culture where people take their paid time off, establish non-work hour boundaries around communications, provide meaningful healthcare benefits, etc. Attack the “always on” factors that are contributing to burnout and support health access rather than eat time with surveys that will lead to time-eating workshops at best and concerns of underlying mental health issues being mistakenly flagged or potentially even targeted by management at worst.

      3. They’ve been doing mental “health” surveys at my kid’s high school and she HATES it. The program involves an online survey and they apparently get marked down on “citizenship” if it’s not filled out in a timely manner. The lectures (school-wide, on the closed circuit video) that go along with the topic go through all sorts of things that she’s never even thought about doing, so there were a lot of tears last night when she was explaining all the things she’s learned. It’s heavy-handed and unbelievably stupid – I wish they’d take all the money they spent on this nonsense and hire some more actual counselors (ah, public school).

        1. That’s awful. I had similar experiences with what would now be called wellness programs and surveys in high school and college. I didn’t even know some of these self-destructive behaviors existed, and it was pretty traumatic to be forced to learn about them and then be asked about them. In a weird way the programs actually seemed to encourage these behaviors by normalizing them and implying that this was what stressed-out people should be doing.

          1. I’m seriously considering opting her out of the surveys and seeing if there is anything else I can do to get this crap out of her life. This isn’t because I’m “against” therapy or mental health awareness, but it’s being so poorly handled that I think it’s actually counterproductive.

            I did tell her that she is under no obligation to answer the surveys honestly. Just pick “fine fine fine” and see if anyone notices (it’s a big school, I doubt they will).

    3. Just fluff. At our meeting the week we finished the survey, we were told that everyone would like to be able to use their leave, but that just was not possible. This was not end-of-year or related to scheduling at a particular rime of year, but just that on a regular basis, it was not reasonable to expect to use earned leave. This is part of the reason so many of us left.

      1. Wow. They actually said it out loud!

        My sister is a hospital RN who usually works 12-hour shifts. Her boss actually said “lunch breaks are great, but…”. Meal breaks are mandated by law for hourly employees, which they all are.

  10. Attention all: there is a Sue Sartor 25% off sale going on (ending 8/31).

    I’ve had a rotten stinking summer (mainly work). The dress I’ve had my eye on is sold out in my size. Send me your favorites — I got the Cinnabar one based on this site and agree it is magical IRL even though I thought it was just way too much on the screen. And in this weird world, SS belted cotton dresses are universally wearable in my city and at my job (but I could go full caftan b/c those are fun, too).

  11. I have really mixed feelings about student loan forgiveness. I went to school and worked as an RA to live for free in cinder block dorms with no A/C (just a fan). It was cheap then but manageable. Now, I see so many fancy dorms (granite! in-apartment laundry! single rooms! lazy rivers! climbing gyms!) and I know that is part of why college is too expensive now and people have so much debt. I am sad, too, when I think of my nieces and nephews. One nephew chose to go to 4-year school b/c he had to play baseball (not as a club sport, as many kids do to not have their hobbies drive their college). He is getting relief for some of his loans. His siblings and cousins are still in high school — either they will get nothing from this (and may well make better decisions, like going to state U or getting a 2-year degree and then transferrring) or if there is another round, I bet the oldest gets swept in again (so could get the same help twice). It just seems so unfair to younger people who will be paying for this but never benefitting from this. NOTHING is being done re reducing the cost, which is a huge part of why there is a problem.

    1. I think this is setting things up falsely as an either/or. There is nothing stopping institutions from being more affordable aside from whatever is going on with loans. Also, my school was paid for, but I would much rather see something like this that rewards education than more tax cuts for the upper percent. Funny how you don’t see ads featuring blue collar workers about “paying someone else’s share” every tax season. We should be a country incentivizing education in all types of ways.

      1. Honest question, do you truly think it’s necessary or helpful for most people to have a traditional four year college degree?

        I really struggle to see the value of this for the vast majority of Americans. Im all for improving our high schools and investing in trade schools and making community college an accessible way for people who are interested in liberal arts courses to take them one at a time in a way that won’t require them to take on debt. But not everyone needs a four year degree.

        1. I’m a professor, but still find it ridiculous that a 4 year degree is required for so many jobs. I’m even in a STEM field, and while many students do clearly benefit from the degree, I see a lot of my students end up in jobs that either don’t need a degree or that require one but can’t possibly be paying enough to justify the debt. And that’s not even including the many who drop out (often for no fault of their own) and end up with debt and no degree.

        2. I will fully admit to being an education snob (in terms of quality, not in terms of name). I come from a long line of teachers and a long line (3 generations back to when my people were poor immigrants) of families scrimping and saving in order to send their kids to good schools. I’m blessed to have had an absolutely amazing k-12 education and then an undergrad and grad experience that was good to great but not amazing.

          That being said, I’m in a writing and research and critical thinking heavy job (as are most jobs) and ooooof so many of my colleagues and clients cannot write (or communicate in general). I think very few high schools do an adequate job of preparing students. I also think most college are not worth their salt and if you’re on a pipeline to go from a crappy high school to a crappy college, there is no point. I remember being in grad school and being appalled at how my classmates wrote. We were at a decent (not great) grad school, and several of them had undergrad degrees from fine local colleges.

          All this to say, I think most jobs don’t actually need a college degree. I wish degree requirements for many jobs were dropped, but that high schools would actually teach necessary skills. And I very strongly believe that many degrees are not with the paper they’re on.

        3. I don’t think everyone and every job needs a degree but I strongly believe our poor education (at all levels) is why we are where we are as a country. Good critical thinking, research, reading comprehension, and communication skills are crucial and they’re not adequately taught. High school education is overwhelmingly bad (even at good schools, I’m rarely impressed), and I think a lot of universities are also failing their students here.

          FWIW, I study public information and disinformation.

          1. Agreed, focus on K-12 is an absolutely essential element to reforming education in this country.

          2. And a lot of kids who have STEM dreams (you can be anything! you can be a doctor! Note: being a doctor is math and science heavy and you have to be good. The MCAT is a joke. Medical school admissions are brutal, so have a backup plan if you really want to work in healthcare) get crushed early in college because they are so ill-prepared for the courses. Even the kids who are well-prepared and have the aptitude will find it rough. People are really not used to working like that. A lot of kids panic, consider themselves to be failures, and course-correct with no real plan (and OMG then talk about law school). It is really disheartening. But I see it every single year. [The mindset to be an EMT is very different: you are trainable, we will trainable, your community needs you and you are valued as a contributor and have many opportunities to advance and further your learning on the job.] Why are the choices such stark either-or choices???

      2. In regards to bringing the cost down, the system needs a complete and total overhaul. Why are degrees even 4 years? We need to cut away the extra fluff required in the first two years. If you are going to school for say engineering why are you required to take a philosophy class? I do not buy the needing a “well rounded student” excuse, it is simply to keep students there longer. Hold colleges accountable for teaching a core program for a major and getting students thru quickly. There needs to be more accountability for all the small fees that add up as well- hundreds of dollars a year to park on campus, activity fees, etc. Other things that would help imo: reign in the sports spending, get the cost of textbooks under control, make schools share in the accountability for loans (especially when their default rates are high), incentivize community college by making it highly subsidized or free, and stop this notion that all people need to go to college.

        1. I could maybe get on board if high school education was half decent in most districts, but it’s not (and it’s only going to get worse). Until education as a whole improves, I am in favor of Gen Ed requirements at colleges.

          1. So my district tries to get “bright” kids to co-enroll at our community college (which is quite good). But in high school, they are taught in real life by teachers who work FT and get benefits. In CC, classes are often virtual and taught by adjuncts. I am not sure how that is supposed to be better vs looks better on paper.

          2. An adjunct at a community college normally has more education than a public high school teacher. Community college instructors almost certainly have a master’s degree and might have a PhD. Public school teachers usually do not have advanced degrees, at least not in my area. Now, I’m not saying having a PhD automatically makes you a good teacher, but it seems a little condescending to scoff at adjuncts or imply the quality of instruction is worse than public high school.

            As to the virtual vs in-person issue, that probably depends on the kid. Some do better with virtual, some do better with in-person.

        2. I have an engineering degree. Your suggestions for that are insane. Cutting it down to 3 or 3.5 years would be madness; there’s too much work and many of the classes are prerequisites for subsequent courses. The handful of liberal arts classes that we were required to take (writing, plus six of our choosing) provided welcome relief from equations all day, every day. It’s also important for engineers to know how to write and maybe know something about the human condition; just because you can make a scientific advancement doesn’t mean that it’s a good idea or good for humanity.

          1. Engineering is a real degree. I was a philosophy major — very different. I am brilliant at c*cktail parties, but 3 years vs 4 years wouldn’t make me more or less sparkly. [For the haters, there is a symbolic logic part of philosophy that is like geometry in that you do proofs. I have a quant job that I could probably have done with no degree at all b/c I swear it is all based on the math I was doing by 8th grade back when we had good math teachers b/c women who were good at math went into math teaching and not into much better paying fields.] But I wouldn’t want my kids trying to duplicate this — philosophy degrees generally lead to law school, which I also wouldn’t want for them.

          2. This distinction is common in the U.K. – I spent three years (plus an extra year on exchange in Germany which wasn’t part of my grade – my peers were out on work placements that year) doing a BSc in Politics, while my friends in STEM either spent three years doing a BSc or four years doing an MMath/ MEng/ etc.

        3. My son could not get all of his engineering requirements in 4 years and barely took any humanities. I don’t want to live in a world where the humanities are considered fluff.

    2. It’s a bass-ackward way of getting more public funding for higher ed, but I’m 100% behind public funding for higher ed. The kids going to school now don’t have “cheap but crappy” living options near campus the way we did, so that bit is out of their control.
      I don’t see it as any different from all the post 9/11 vets getting the MUCH, MUCH better post-9/11 GI Bill while I worked two jobs to make it with my MGIB. I’m glad the powers that be actually addressed many of the gaps that screwed me over. I’m so glad those student veterans don’t have to go through what I did in order to get their education. I side-eye how nice my uni’s veteran’s center is now that vets are much more lucrative to the university, but that’s not the students’ fault.

      I hope the current powers that be use this little bit of movement on loan forgiveness to address higher ed funding in a more lasting way.

    3. My main issue with the forgiveness is as you stated, there’s nothing being done to reign in the cost.

      Personally I think the schools that took the tuition/room and board expenses that were paid with the loans being forgiven need to bear some of the cost. And should be guarantors on all future loans

      1. +1

        I’m not opposed to forgiveness, but I have a huge issue with the cost. I graduated 6 years ago from a 50-60k / year school, which is now a 75k / year school! I don’t think my undergrad was worth it, only because I don’t think any school is worth 75k, but the school has an 88% graduation rate, avg starting salary is 68k and 97% of grads are in the workforce/grad school within 6 months so clearly it did a decent job preparing us all for the workforce. FWIW, our on-campus dorms were (and still are) tiny shared rooms, cinder block walls and no AC…

        I’m now in part time grad school, chosen entirely because it was the cheapest option. I’m not getting a bad education here but man it is noticeably lower tier than my undergrad. I’m not necessarily proud of where I’m going to grad school but I am proud that it will be debt free for me. But, my whole program will cost 30k, which was a semester at my undergrad.

        I’m lucky that I paid off my 30k of undergrad loans a few years back and that I can cash flow grad school (with my jobs reimbursement for 50%!)

        1. I take your point, because a lazy river is a decadent luxury to drive up tuition for, but small quibble: all of these are in campus rec centers, not in dorm buildings.

          1. I’m laughing at the image of a lazy river in a dorm, lol. I’m also not sure a lazy river is THAT decadent. My small town rec center has one. It seems to me that it’s probably cheaper to install and maintain a small lazy river than an Olympic size lap pool.

          3. I didn’t take OP literally about the dorm part, just assumed she was referring to amenities in general. But while this is a real issue increasing costs, the bigger issue is “amenities” like wifi, counseling services, IT services, title IX enforcement, lots of other compliance functions, supports for disabled and first gen students, etc. etc. Most of these things were nonexistent or much less common 40 years ago, but are either mandated or otherwise considered essential now. On top of that housing costs have skyrocketed, even for crappy housing, and so has health care, which makes every employee much more expensive even if their salary hasn’t gone up.

          4. Student rec centers and other amenities are what are driving up the cost of attendance. They’re certainly not paying the professors boat loads of money!

          5. Aren’t most “professors” just poorly-paid 1099 contingent workers vs employees with benefits? It would be better to be a Title 9 staffer or director of some center or other than a PhD who is an adjunct professor. So the $ isn’t going to actual education. It’s going to everything else.

          6. Depends on the school, but at most respected institutions, most of the faculty are actual professors who are salaried employees and paid decently. My husband is a professor at a decent but not super prestigious State U and there are a handful of adjuncts, but most faculty members are tenured or tenure-track faculty and they make plenty to live on.

          7. I work at a UC and a pretty significant portion of the classes are taught by non-tenure track employees, though more of them are grad students than adjuncts. It’s still people getting paid peanuts (in a VHCOL area) with little teaching experience or job security.

        2. I went to ga tech and there is practically an indoor water park. The pool facilities were originally built for the 96 Olympics and then they tacked on.
          But we did have very small crappy cinder block shared dorms.
          I graduated with about 50k in debt. Lived very frugally for a few years and paid more than the minimum.I’m a little salty about forgiveness 5 years too late for me, but I’m not entirely opposed to it.

    5. I agree with you that the cost is the main problem. Tuition has hugely outpaced other areas. And schools could laugh all the way to the bank, because it’s been so easy for students to borrow.

    6. I don’t think it’s fair to blame the kids for the fancy infrastructure. Parents could have said, No, you are going to Cinder Block U, not Rock Climbing U. But apparently enough parents are swayed by fancy infrastructure for schools to invest in it to keep their acceptance rates up.

      I haven’t read the exact bill, but I have seen articles saying that the student loan forgiveness is just part of it – there are some things to help make the cost of college less ridiculous.

      1. Sure if it was a difference between private U vs state U. But I went to a decent State U and the tuition & room and board bill at that State U has gone up more than 50% since I graduated a decade ago, based on what my younger cousins tell me. This is a State U! Why do we need fancy dorms? Upgraded labs, that I completely understand but the fancy dorms piss me off. No you don’t need fancy carpet in your dorm room, floor tile is fine and buy some cheap rugs from IKEA. Anyway, I paid off my student loans a few years before the pandemic so I’m not really affected by the loan forgiveness right now.

        Definitely infuriating that nothing is being done to fix the real problem, which is the rising costs of college.

      2. Exactly. Remember the Duke p0rn star, who got a full ride to Vanderbilt but went to Duke instead, at a cost of almost $200,000? Because Vandy isn’t a good enough school????

          1. Google Miriam Weeks. She got a full ride to Vanderbilt but chose Duke instead. Her family couldn’t pay the cost so she had to come up with a lot of money. She went into adult entertainment, got flown back and forth to California, and got outed at school.

          2. At least she was working to pay for school. I don’t see a problem with it, as long as it was fully consensual etc.

      3. I prepaid for an in-State college for my 23 year old son and was shocked at how ridiculously nice and shiny the dorms are as well as the apartments that cater to college students. Where is this State university that has affordable housing near it?

    7. Agree with you that it’s infuriating that nothing is being done about reigning in costs.

      The schools that took money for tuition or room and board that came from loan proceeds should bear some of this cost. And they should have to co-sign every one of their student’s loans going forward.

      2. I would asterisk this for schools charging more than, say, the average of a state university education. My husband teaches at a state U that charges $15k a year, and they lack the endowment to cover many extra costs. Harvard, OTOH, has an endowment that is approximately 1/12th of the total American college endowment, which is insane. I hate that Harvard charges over $300k for a law degree and if their graduates get PSLF, the taxpayer foots the bill. Not one cent comes out of their over $50 billion endowment.

        I don’t care if taxpayers pay $4,000 or so for a kid who did a year at local state U before deciding that college isn’t for him, or if a graduate needs a few grand because she doesn’t have great job prospects for a few years. But paying $300,000 so someone can get a JD from Yale or Harvard? No. Yale or Harvard can pay for that.

        1. Oh, that burns re Harvard debt forgiveness. Based on the lawyers I know, they take jobs at Important Nonprofis vs actually being a prosecutor or public defender or someone who actually has to roll up their sleeves and do what was likely envisioned. I bet they never even live in an inland state in the US.

          1. The extra enraging part is that some of the jobs that qualify for loan forgiveness are also prestigious and fancy so can also lead to lucrative private sector work once the loans have been forgiven.

          2. This makes sense for HBCUs, which tend to have poor students and no endowments to speak of. That this benefit goes to people at Harvard and Harvard’s endowment doesn’t get touched makes me stabby.

        2. The vast majority of HLS students who take public interest jobs enroll in the Low Income Protection Plan (LIPP), not PSLF. Harvard funds LIPP iteslf.

    8. The thing I don’t like about it is that it does nothing to prevent the same cycle going forward. I don’t care about the relief to people- that’s great and I would have loved it back in the day. I have also seen that it’s targeted not at people like your nephew, who is a lucky beneficiary, but at the majority of low income student debt holders. I buy that and support deleting loans.

      But what about putting some of this on the colleges? My alma mater is almost $80k per year now (and was over $40k when I went in 2000). And beyond that, if the relief is good for graduate programs too, how does this help the cycle of people going to grad school on a whim and then sitting on years and years of debt because their grad degree is worthless?

      I think 0% interest would go a long way.

    9. Chiming in because this is all the traditional conservative talking points and it’s just a matter of time before you mention useless sociology degrees. I’m the poster who does UN work, I have a sociology degree, it’s not useless, it allows me to write conventions. We need to stop framing ‘value’ of education in the capitalist machine. I bring way more value to society than an investment bro and it’s a hill I will die on. I also paid for my own education and I hope no one has to do that ever again. It was an awful and trying experience to work full time while studying, why would I want others to suffer just because I did? That f*cked up.

      1. I know a guy who majored in medieval history and he joined the CIA and did a lot of work in Eastern Europe during the whole Bosnia and Sarajevo business – he knew about all the old feuds.

        1. OK but if you are taking out a 10K loan now, it’s, what, 15K by the time you start paying it back and 20K total by the time you pay it off. Per year, at least. So borrowing 40K –> you had better not be doing that for a job that pays $40K. And some start at 40K but some will never pay more than that. I think learning is great, but libraries are still free and you ought to learn outside of the box and do something for $ where you will have some left over by the end of the month.

          I’m not saying to not enter a low-paying field. I’m just saying that if you go that route, go there so that you won’t be overly burdened with debt. Debt is a prison!

      2. +100

        My poli sci undergrad degree and sociology grad degree has led to a career in intelligence analysis, public health, and emergency management. My job has saved some lives and massively many others. I don’t make a ton working in local government but there’s huge amounts of value in my work. I also would hate for people to be deterred from these very important fields just because the salaries aren’t commensurate with how expensive the degree was.

        I also use both skills and knowledge from my degrees all of the time.

        I paid off my 40k of undergrad debt and somehow managed to cash flow my grad degree with a lot of scholarship money.

        I did go to pretty expensive but very highly regarded schools, where I did receive an excellent education. I do recognize that many expensive schools are not as “worth it”, but I received a great education.

        Even though I can’t use the loan forgiveness, I support it. But I very strongly support capping the insane cost of college.

      3. I doubt most people with sociology degrees write conventions (convention = things that the UN writes that problematic governments and regimes routinely flout with no consequences). What I hate is that I know people who thought they wanted STEM degrees and couldn’t cut it because their high schools left them ill-prepared with foundational skills and study skills. So they dropped the hard science for things like sociology and had no plan of what to do with it (so they didn’t go into social work, working with abused kids, working with the homeless, working with the lonely elderly, etc.). It was something they stumbled into after failing and often had to do an extra year of school with even more debt. That is what I hate about it. If that is your calling, I would think you’d go in with all of the public loan forgiveness options known and planned for. This isn’t them tough.

        1. There are actually legally binding conventions, but I’m not going to go into the nuances of international policy. Falling @ss backwards into the social sciences isn’t a bad thing, that’s what I did, I didn’t even know my career existed until a fourth year prof told me about it. My path is no less valid because I didn’t know it existed when I was 17, and only figured it out at the senile age of 20…

          1. But a 17YO is exactly who takes out loans that are ill-thought-out. I’m glad it worked out for you, but it often goes sideways fast.

        2. +1 sociology (or whatever degree we are picking on today) aren’t of zero value to everyone. But as a society I really question the value of having so many people with those degrees. I personally find it appalling that we are so elitist as a country that we basically told an entire generation that any job that didn’t require a college degree was something you should be embarrassed about. And the result is that a lot of jobs that used to only require a high school diploma now require a college degree. That doesn’t benefit anyone except the schools cashing the tuition checks.

    10. Frankly this just sounds like a disguise for “this program didn’t help me and I’m mad about it.”

      1. IDK about that. I think it is rotten that current borrowers are helped and not a d*mn thing is being done for those who will need to borrow in the future (e.g., current underclassmen and high school students). I also think that we ought to give the side-eye to masters’ degrees for anything (but maybe an MBA and maybe masters in accounting, both of which are totally different than masters in other things) and also the idea that a BA is truly needed for anything (especially RN vs RN-with-a-BA). They drive up the cost of many fields without adding a thing to the ability or skills of the person doing the job in the field. Do you need a BA for graphic art? I’d pay more for a teacher who has a BS in math and a MS in math, but apparently education jobs don’t work that way at all.

    11. I was lucky to graduate loan free even though it involved working during college and law school and living in a cinder block basement. My husband lived like a student for years in big law to pay off every penny he owed and we delayed marriage and home ownership until it every penny was paid off.

      I still can’t bring myself to be critical of loan forgiveness. Especially when it is targeted at people making less than 125k or pell grant recipients who came from very low income homes. I can’t even wrap my head around why I should be bitter or angry at people getting a very small amount of debt relief.

      Going to college and taking out loans was so encouraged when I was a kid that I feel an entire generation was mislead by baby boomers who paid very little for their educations. (I’m 40 if it matters.) my heart breaks for the young people who tried to improve their lives by trusting their guidance counselors and teachers who called this “good debt” and are now financial strapped adults.

      Frankly I’m less sympathetic to people my age who complain that there are no good manufacturing jobs left ( like…there haven’t been any for a generation? That’s why they told you to go to college and stay in school constantly when you were a kid? Born in they USA was written before you were born…we all knew the assembly line was not the path to prosperity)

      I support a living wage for everyone and maybe college degrees aren’t for everyone, but I’m particularly annoyed that the “bootstrap” crew thinks someone who tried to get educated to do better than their parents is somehow less deserving than the person who refused to do that.

      1. Anon at 11:47, I agree with you completely.

        I was fortunate to go to college when it was relatively cheap, and my parents were willing and able to help, so I had no debt. I’m delighted that people are getting the debt relief I don’t need – I already pay for so many things I don’t use (childless, so I don’t use schools, I don’t use public transport that much, I make simultaneously too much and too little to benefit from most tax relief programs) that this is a tiny drop in the bucket. And if it can help more people move on with their lives and buy houses, cars, start a business, well, that’s probably good for all of us.

      2. I live in a small city that has a very large manufacturing plant. Starting pay is almost $20/hour in a place where a basic 2 bed/2 bath apartment is $800/month, and a basic house is $250k or so. They have benefits and on-site daycare; a lot of two-income families will work there, put the kids in their daycare, and be able to buy a house. So it is hardly the path to wealth, but it is a huge draw from rural areas. A lot of people like that they don’t need a college degree to live a middle class life.

          1. Plants don’t just close. Our laws and policies have a lot to do with whether or not manufacturing in America is a viable enterprise.

            People need for stuff to be made. Even in a “virtual” world, you need a place to live, food to eat, and transportation.

          2. Right, “laws and policies,” such as requiring workers to be paid fairly and have a safe working environment and humane working hours, such as not allowing manufacturers to pollute or lands and air, such as requiring products to be safe and holding companies accountable when they aren’t. Are there particular laws and policies in place now that you would change to make manufacturing in the US more viable?

          3. Liza, aren’t you supposed to be finishing up your homework before your school newspaper meeting?

            Manufacturing in third world and developing countries is not a bastion of environmentally sound practices nor worker’s rights. Overly strict regulations in America will force manufacturing overseas, to counties that abuse people and wreck our environment. I can assure you that people in third world countries who are abused in sweatshops are no less human than people here, sad trashing the environment overseas is an unequivocal bad thing.

            This may be a complex idea for someone who thinks that her absolutist abortion position is nuanced, but educated adults (which you will be once you wrap up high school and college) understand that making policy involves trade-offs.

    12. I thought there was that whole thing about capping interest as long as you make reasonable monthly payments? Shouldn’t that go a long way towards enabling people to pay back what they borrowed, including future students?

    13. I think we have significantly more pressing needs as a country than offering student debt forgiveness to non-distressed borrowers, and so I object to this program because it isn’t tailored to those who are unable to pay. If we want to assist the economically disadvantaged, auto loan forgiveness or medical debit forgiveness would be a better use of these funds. It is, however, very effective as a gift to Biden’s base before the midterms, so there’s that.

      1. I think people are paying too much attention to the loan forgiveness part and missing the income driven repayment part- it will reduce payments for those people AND stop interest from accumulating. This is actually a big deal and is really targeted at exactly what you say you want.

      2. You lost me. Why does any of this need to be instead of? I’d be up for medical debt forgiveness in addition to managing student loans.

        I’m also tired of the “more pressing needs as a country” rhetoric.I think our country needs to establish fair wages and put in place better taxation around large corporations but that doesn’t mean nothing else can be on the agenda for the middle class until then.

          1. No kidding. But to take everything off the table with a dismissive “more pressing needs as a country” or present a flawed dichotomy of choices doesn’t cut it. You can do A and B without forcing it to be A or B, especially when you’ve got C out there that pales in comparison on cost.

    14. The thing that frustrates me about commentary about student loan forgiveness is that people seem to be framing it as though Biden chose between fixing the education system or forgiving $10k of student loans and decided to just stick with the loans. Any reasonable reform of our education system requires significant funding from Congress, and we’ve just spent the last two years watching all the meaningful pieces of Build Back Better get torn off. Forgiving student loans is something that Biden was able to do with executive action, so that’s why it got done and broader reform didn’t. If you’re frustrated that more didn’t happen, channel that frustration into voting – both in the primaries AND the general election.

      1. Yep. Biden is doing what he can and it’s better than nothing. He’s not a magician.

        Fwiw I went debt free to a fancy undergrad school thanks to generous parents, and then I went to law school on scholarship and a decent amount ($30k) of loans, which I have long since paid off. I support the student loan relief even though it doesn’t benefit me.

      2. I think he just wanted to buy some votes in the midterm. As if his base is going to switch sides.

    15. I think it’s pandering and it’s because Millenials are such a loud and vocal generation. It’s a regressive tax any way you cut it, and as a dyed in the wool liberal, I am against regressive taxes.

      But keep whining Millenials. Seems to be working for you.

      Signed – Gen X

      1. I am totally against this as a regressive tax. And it will be paid for by current underclass students and anyone under 18, who will still need an education and will be even worse off in terms of affording one.

      3. Agreed. It’s Biden trying to hold on to the younger democratic base. I absolutely despise the AOC/Sanders demographic.

      4. Agreed. This is a huge gift to Biden’s millennial professional class base. Which is also the majority of the commenter base here, so I’m unsurprised that the comments heavily favor it.

      6. It’s not a regressive tax and I support it.
        I also think government should take over student loans, like in Australia.

        – a Gen Xer

    16. The extra frustrating part of it all is that so little of that tuition money even goes to professors. So many universities, even liberal arts colleges and Ivies, rely on adjunct professors who are paid pennies and have uncertain, precarious employment. Not to mention all the underpaid post docs and grad students who also contribute to teaching.

      1. This.

        Maybe someone could start Bare Bones U, where accommodations are spartan and all $ goes into actual instruction.

        I worked on some govt bonds once to pay for dorms at State U. I’m pretty sure those bonds have been retired by now but they are still charging for housing. Bare Bones U wouldn’t do that (or would be a bit less grabby about it).

        1. DH teaches at a school like this. He earns about $60,000 and has been tenured for three years. He teaches nine classes per year.

          Ask me how I feel about HLS students getting debt forgiveness while their professors live in mansions in Cambridge and they work at fancy nonprofits, and everyone blames lower ranked schools for this mess.

        2. Ah but you’re forgetting that all the fancy amenities were key in the everyone must go to college narrative. The schools had to make it appealing to the masses. And the government was happy to give them the money (via loans) to do it.

          That said, I’m all for Bare Bones U!

      2. I think the adjunct life is pretty awful, and a reality for many who were attracted to the academic life. I am up close and personal with higher education, both professionally and through numerous family members who have tenure. I think they earn a decent to good living relative to how hard they work, and these are successful faculty who are productive in their fields. I have also seen enough waste in higher education that I no longer make contributions to the universities from which I graduated. I am a huge proponent of higher education, but the current set up is not it.

    17. I’m a fundraiser for an Ivy University. I too have had a lot of mixed feelings about forgiveness, but what I think makes the $10K forgiveness absolutely wonderful is that it forgives debt for millions of people who started but didn’t complete their degrees, leaving them with debt but no qualification, as well as those who took out student loans for blue collar work (beauty school, etc.). That alone will be really transformative in the lives of people without degrees and debt. In addition, IDR adjustments will completely transform the ability of many to actually pay off their remaining loans. As stated below, these reforms were also some of the only meaningful things available to Biden–if you want reform of the education system, I highly encourage you to help Dems increase their margin in the Senate and retain the House.

      I want to specifically address the notion that forgiveness is regressive. From my work, I can tell you that while there are truly rare exceptions to this rule: the upper class don’t have student loans. They paid for the educations and that of their children and grandchildren with cash. So, forgiveness–even for those with fancy graduate degrees, etc.–by default does not flow up to the very top of the wealth distribution.

      1. That’s not how regressive taxes work. It’s that it’s borne greatest by those at the bottom. Taxes on groceries are a prime example of this.

    18. Completely against student loan forgiveness. Other people paid full price for college and now people want to get that same thing for free. I can understand reducing interest but not giving them something for free when others made certain choices based on college expenses. You made a purchase and now you want it for free instead. There are a lot of factors involved but ultimately, pay for what you bought.

    19. I haven’t seen a lot in these comments about Pell Grant recipients, so I thought I’d just quote an entire Tweet I saw about them from Bharat Ramamurti, National Economic Council Deputy Director — I thought it was really illuminating. https://twitter.com/BharatRamamurti/status/1563506897713385476?s=20&t=ummrHmsDMq3R-aGz9VrZ-g

      A few facts on Pell Grant recipients who have student debt:

      -They make up 60% of student loan borrowers (27M)

      -Nearly all come from families making under 60k; two-thirds come from families making under 30k

      -98% currently make under 100k a year

      -Although they make up 60% of borrowers, they make up 90% of the ~8M borrowers in default

      -The Pell Grant borrowers with the *highest* incomes are more likely to default than the non-Pell Grant borrowers with the *lowest* incomes

      This shows the critical role that family wealth plays in student loan repayment. Borrowers from low wealth families often have to help other family members pay off their debts—in addition to their own loans.

      That’s why Pell Grant recipients get 20k in relief in our plan.

      1. The Pell Grantees are about the only thing in this that makes sense. Those people were poor and are likely still poor. And if school / family income patters are like they are in my city, they were poorly prepared by their primary schools, poorly counseled re school, and had poor options, often at schools with no endowments for either merit or need-based aid.

        I don’t want to see forgiveness at schools not touching their endowments. That makes me stabby.

      2. If we really want to help poor kids, we should just be raising Pell Grants.

        Signed, Pell Grant recipient

    20. I confess to going to a private college in the 1970’s, when I could almost pay for school by working full time during the summer and working part time during the school year. My parents paid, too. What has changed is not only the crazy price of college’s room, board, and tuition, but the federal and state support for higher education. Our nation no longer supports higher ed as it used to, and the rising costs have been passed along to students and families, who believed until recently that they had no choice but to pay. Now people are really questioning the need for a college degree. Also, student loans used to be centered in the government, and are now mostly privatized, and considered a profit center for banks. I am a true believer in the value of an education, especially centered on the liberal arts and a well rounded person. Our lack of support and commitment to education has led us to where we are today, a divided, poorly informed nation who cannot think critically.

    21. The Washington Post had an excellent article about who benefits from the debt forgiveness plan and I think a lot of people are coming from this with an incorrect understanding.

      A few highlights:
      53% of borrowers owe less than $20K
      People with the smallest debt often have the most difficulty repaying it – often because they did not get degrees.
      People with the highest loans balances can generally pay it off.
      Graduate programs is the primary driver of student loan debt; borrowing for undergraduate debt is actually down.
      Attendees at private, for profit schools have the hardest time paying off their loans.

      This is not going to do much for the person who borrowed $200K to go to undergraduate or grad school – but I do not think that was who it was aimed at.

      I have been following the thoughts about dorm and facility spending driving up tuition costs. If anyone has a source for how facilities spending now compares to 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago, I would love to see it!

  12. I am writing a review of Tuckernuck tennis items (I had a rough summer and wanted to treat myself to something to get me exciting about exercising and in my current size). I am maybe too lumpy/squishy and pear-shaped to have felt comfortable with how I looked in the various tennis dresses, but I found them to be nice and opaque and the undershorts they sold were nice and opaque and didn’t ride up jumping and lunging around the house. Workable ball pockets. I did settle on a tennis skort and shirt. I LOVED the fabric — very nice substantial fabric and very cute details. I really liked the one lesson I wore my outfit to and felt very put together and excited to have some exercise. Silicone grippies on the undershorts were good at preventing roll up but not obnoxious the way things can be when they are too aggressive or tight. I would check here again the next time I need something. I also wear Athleta (very good, but colors often not joyful enough for what I wanted) and Lilly sport (cute, but I would like grippies and better ball pockets in their tennis attire; golf attire is fine).

    1. Thank you! Appreciate your review and I’ll look into them the next time I need new gear. I also like Tory Sport as a pear

      1. Good to know — I’ve tried two golf dresses from them and I am either too short or too short-torso’ed for them. But they were very lovely.

        1. Ah, maybe try their skirts? In particular the skirts with the split side hem are very comfortable

          1. In the world of my dreams, I play so much tennis that I need to replace worn items. I do at least need to redo the grip on my racket, so that is progress.

    2. I love reviews from commenters on everything! If you’ve bought or done something recently- please review it here. I learn so much!

  13. I’m moving to a small New England city next year and am thinking about how to get involved in the community/make friends. I’m in my mid-thirties, not Christian, single & child-free — Junior League? Join a non-profit board? I don’t have a ton of ideas.

    1. I feel like Junior League is always worth a shot. If it is too Skip & Muffy for you, meet the women who are on the board (b/c they are often awesome broads, and I mean that in the best sense of the phrase, who get sh*t done with volunteers, which is itself a fine delicate art of using only carrots) before you give up. Sandra Day O’Connor was the President of the Junior League of Phoenix and maybe was more a representative slice of management vs rank-and-file.

      Nonprofit boards are always good, but IMO they are all about fundraising vs service, so how do you feel re fundraising? I’d take a NOLS wilderness first aid class if any are offered locally or through a nearby REI b/c you will meet some fun outdoorsy people and may let you hike around in foliage season and maybe volunteer in area parks.

    2. Will you have any weekend time free to volunteer? I spend a couple of Saturday afternoons a month behind the till at a charity bookshop and it’s been a great way to feel embedded in my community, both from friendships with other volunteers and from acquaintanceships (?) with regular customers

    3. How small is small? Would you have a local chapter of the satanic temple? (not satanism, it’s a super moral atheist org that often brings forth legislative challenges to separate church and state, read their website) if so they’re a great place to find community. Food not bombs is also another great org you might want to look into if your city has a chapter.

    4. Welcome to Small New England City! If it is anywhere in northeastern MA/southern NH/Southern ME then you are in somewhat in my neighborhood and I’d be happy to share any helpful info I have. I’ve met fun people volunteering (at a cat shelter), taking classes through my local education association, going to library events and workshops, and working out at a small/community based gym (YWCA).

    5. Meetup groups, exercise classes, hiking groups, and team sports would be my strategy – I live in small town NJ with a similar profile.

    6. Check out the local service clubs — Rotary, Kiwanis, whatever is big where you are moving. I met my husband and most of my friends at Rotary!

      1. Oh, and the friends I didn’t make at Rotary, I made at the gym. Find one where you can take classes at the same time every week and eventually you will get to know the other regulars. Or join a sports team or running/cycling/swimming club or similar.

    7. Adopt a dog from a rescue organization, then go to dog parks and join online breed groups and attend meetups. Worked for me! In fact, I have dog group friends coming over this evening – with their dogs, of course! Puppy play date with cocktails. :)

    8. Political committee – your local Democratic or Republican town committee (or city committee, if you are moving to a city). Politics is a blood sport up there.

      Athletic club – cycling, running, etc. Cross fit.

    9. I think the answer depends on where you are in New England. There is no Junior League where I am and the non profit boards are very clique-y and tend to exclude anyone who depends on income from a job no matter how high the HHI.

      The good options for getting involved are much more local and I wouldn’t have been able to guess their names until I moved in and read about them. So that’s my advice – get a subscription to your local paper, join NextDoor (even though it has its share of crazies), go to the Farmer’s Market each weekend, and visit your local library and coffee shop to check out the community events they host and community notices they post. And since fall is county fair season – go check out the local county and state fairs!

    10. I posted once here a long time ago about Junior League (I was thinking of joining) and got a bunch of negative replies, although I don’t remember exactly what was said. I’ll try to find that thread.

    11. I live in New England, so I’ll bite. Join a gym and go at the same time, and maybe take a specialty class so as to be with the same people all the time. Go out for drinks after work with your work colleagues and see what that can lead to in terms of meeting their friends. Volunteer at something fun, or a political campaign. If your lifestyle allow it, get a dog and go to dog parks. Get phone numbers and arrange weekend hikes and walks with dogs and owners.

      1. +1 to the gym/exercise class suggestion. I made friends in both Los Angeles and NYC at barre classes (granted, I was in my late 20s and early 30s then – i.e., single and childless – but I think it would still be doable now).

  14. Is there a service out there where you pay a fee and the service can take your travel points/miles and send you various vacation itineraries, then you pick one and they book it? My husband and I have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of Amex points and airline miles and no clue what to do with them. We both get decision paralysis when it comes to travel and don’t have any limiting factors other than wanting direct flights.

    1. I know this doesn’t answer your question, but going forward, this is why I just do cash back. I’d rather just have the money and spend it however I want than get stuck in trying to work out convoluted ways of using points most efficiently. When I travel, I usually have fairly specific dates and purposes, so it’s usually too much of a pain to deal with points anyway.

    3. Yes! Colleagues of mine have used and liked point me (google it – link stuck me in mod). I’ve also used AmEx travel services for this years ago and they are great. The points guy website also has an app that is supposed to be very helpful for this.

    4. When I was in consulting, my coworkers and I used to joke about starting a service like this. I don’t know if it exists in reality and would be skeptical about using one, but it’s a great idea.

      I used to be amazing at optimizing points and took some pretty epic vacations but after two years of little travel and changing jobs to one with quarterly travel at best I am rusty. I would suggest perhaps posting this on Fishbowl in the All Things Points bowl and you will probably get some suggestions from bored consultants.

      1. Point me was started by ex-MBB consultants who had precisely this idea, which is probably why I liked them so much. Consultants are VERY serious about not leaving miles on the table and seem to know all the best tips/tricks!

    6. Op here…. Will Amex suggest itineraries? If I had a specific destination I can use their service to book with points. Our issue is that we don’t even know where we want to go, are VERY flexible on dates (could be anytime from Feb-June of 2023), so there’s no true limiting factors and it’s the research where we need help. I really need someone that knows all the places you can get to with a direct flight from our home airport on the airline where we have all of our miles, and then how those flights overlap with hotels where we can optimize our points. It doesn’t matter to us whether that’s some place in Europe or California or the Caribbean I just would love a service that says “here are three choices” and I pick and boom! Vacation booked. I actually loathe the travel research aspect traveling. I’d rather every trip just be a surprise when I got to the destination, with only limited instructions on what kind of clothes to pack.

  15. Piggybacking off of some of the other comments – Has anyone tried one of those “mystery” vacation companies, where you tell them how long you can go and how much you can spend and they book it for you? Any recommendations for specific companies?

    1. Yes! Just did Pack Up+Go this summer. We did a 4 day trip to Austin and it was a great destination for us. We did it mainly because we’re going to Italy this fall and planning that trip ourselves. We didn’t want to take away from that planning /were too exhausted to think about doing another trip but wanted a summer vacation. For us and our situation it was great! I was nervous when we first booked, but I really leaned into the experience of going with the flow.

  16. I am an independent contractor and work closely with a small firm with which I do ~75% of my business. The CEO and I operate somewhat like partners without the formal relationship and often refer business back and forth. We’ve worked like this for years and have referral agreements, subcontractor agreements etc. in place. Every once in a while, a project will turn out more lucrative than expected, so the firm’s CEO will tell me to invoice her for a “bonus” (usually done as “additional project fees” or whatever). The bonuses usually range 5-15k and happen maybe once or twice a year. Usually it’s when it’s a big project that I pull out all the stops (eg work my butt off) to get done on time and with positive client feedback.

    I recently worked with the firm on a very large project. I was an integral part and I was a large part of why the project was signed at $200k instead of $100k. I just had a call with my counterpart at the firm who let me know that the client paid early/on time and in addition to my normal invoice for the project, she’d be doing a bonus of $50k as a project management fee.

    I was not expecting a bonus that high- it’s way higher than in the past. I was thinking perhaps she said “fifteen thousand” not “fifty thousand” so I did ask her to recap what she’d said in terms of the invoice. When she said it again it really did sound like “fifty.”

    Do I (1) get this clarified in writing before dropping the invoice? I have a very good relationship and can text her, but I don’t want to sound like an idiot so would appreciate some coaching on the language since I already did ask her a second time. “were you really serious about that $50k??” “Dropping the invoice now and want to double check on the fees- do you mind sending that in writing?” The number is in line with the value I brought to the project but is still very generous.

    (2) drop an invoice for $50k without clarifying and risk looking like an idiot because she did in fact say $15k (and if so, how to mitigate that?)

    (3) other?

    1. Do (2), and if it’s wrong, they will absolutely let you know. Don’t sell yourself short or give them an out here preemptively! Congrats on doing a great job!

      1. Oh I know they’ll let me know (and she’d let me know either way, as in if I billed $15 when she said $50). I just don’t want to seem like an idiot billing for 3.5x what they told me to bill.

    5. (2). You said yourself that $15 isn’t outside the range of your “normal” so aside from actually hearing $50 twice, the context (extra large project) gives me confidence that you heard correctly.

  17. Will you help me hunt for a new office chair? I’ve been remote since before 2020 and I’m done – DONE – with using a dining room chair… I’m looking for a unicorn meeting the following descriptors:
    – I’m tall + plus size 16/18 – so looking for something a little wider and deeper
    – Armless or very low arm preferred, my antique desk doesn’t have a lot of clearance
    – Classic style – my office is adjacent to my Ralph Lauren equestrian-ish style living room so I’m hoping to find a leather or a deep upholstery color or custom options. I’m open to an office chair or a regular chair, but have never really liked the ergonomic chairs, even when they fitted it to me when I was in an office.
    – Wheels or no wheels is fine, and I’m also fine with swivel or no swivel

    1. No recommendations, but I’m on the hunt as well, and will post if I buy a new one I like. There was a post rounding up six or seven well-reviewed/highly recommended ones a while ago if you search the site. I have a similar style to yours as well; I would love something that doesn’t scream “office chair”, but I do love wheels and swivel. For a while I had a wooden wheeled/swivel chair; it looked cute but was not well made and started falling apart pretty quickly. So the search continues.

    2. I’m a big fan of the Humanscale Freedom Task Chair (with or without headrest). It is very customizable, so you can get it with or without arms in a nice variety of leather colors. I am about your size (5’8″ tall, size 16ish) and it fits me very well. Note that if you do opt for the arm rests, they are super adjustable, so you can put them down really low when you want to tuck the chair under your desk.

  18. DH just found out that he can no longer play his favorite sport, soccer, due to a knee injury, He had acl surgery last year and started playing again until recently where his knee started giving out. As a lifelong player (rec level), he is super sad. It doesn’t help that he has a milestone birthday coming up as a reminder of our aging/mortality. Also, our kids are starting to get really into soccer, so that is fun but also a reminder that he cant really join in. So, super-specific question, but you all have the best ideas ever, what is something I can get him (actual gift or experience) for his upcoming birthday to help with this? Anything?

    1. Can you try and get him interested in an alternative sport? Road biking perhaps?

    2. When my husband had to give up soccer, I encouraged him to take up golf. So far so good!

    3. Tickets to a pro game her or abroad, or even the World Cup? Can he coach his team or your kids teams? That might help with the I can’t play anymore problem.

  19. Morning hive – it’s been two months since Roe was overturned and total abortion bans are now in effect and being enforced in the following states: Texas, Idaho, Oklahoma, Louisiana, South Dakota, Missouri, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee and Kentucky; bans in North Dakota, Wyoming and Indiana are either held up in courts or will go into effect next month. There are six-week bans in other states. Here’s a map: https://reproductiverights.org/maps/abortion-laws-by-state/

    Please keep donating to abortion funds in these areas. If you’re not sure where to donate, check out the National Network of Abortion Funds (https://abortionfunds.org/).

    1. Donations are desperately needed! More and more precious, defenseless babies are being born in these states everyday!

        1. Yes — I’m pleased that we have a diaper bank in my city now. Sort of shocking this need was unmet locally except on an ad hoc basis (but babies need diapers every day, ditto people who are incontinent).

      2. Hey Anon? How many of these babies have you adopted?

        What’s that? None?

        OK, well, until you can step into the shoes of people who are not able to parent or don’t want to parent a child with a serious defect, please stop. Kthxbye.

        1. Wait, according to my social media feeds, adoption is a tool of white supremacy that Christians only support because they want to be white savior colonizer types. Or at least, that’s what Ibram Kendi said about Any Coney Barrett. So are we allowed to adopt these kids or no?

        2. I’m the anon in question. Since I have adopted children and regularly support various charities for unplanned pregnancies, are you now pro-life? Or is that just a weak strawman to avoid the issue? Does it make sense to say a person can’t oppose domestic violence if she doesn’t open her home to DV survivors?

          “Kthxbye” was the strong part of your position.

          1. Correct. You can adopt every unwanted baby in the country and your position, that women should be force to give birth against their will, will remain abhorrent.

        3. Nice try, but there are no preconditions to advocating for justice! I can say that it’s good that it’s illegal to murder homeless people without needing to take them into my home. I can say that we need to end sex trafficking without needing to personally “service” men affected by this. I can say that we should not discriminate against Black people in giving out student aid without personally paying for them to go to college.

  20. I’m going to Vegas in the spring for the first time and I’m looking for a smoke-free hotel on the strip with a good pool that has complimentary breakfast. Does anyone have any recommendations?

    1. Vdara is the only smoke free hotel on the strip I know of, although it’s been a few years since I was last there. The pool is ok but nothing special. You won’t get “free breakfast” at Vegas hotels normally, but many hotels will offer you resort credits that can be spent at the buffet.

      1. Vdara was my first Vegas hotel and I enjoyed it a lot! Spring for a suite if you can, they’re great. Well located to walk the strip too. A little quieter than other strip hotels because there’s no casino too.

        (Fwiw the Wynn is my favorite but there is smoking there. And I agree with the other poster, free breakfast is not a thing on the strip mega hotels)

      2. +1, Vdara was great, and the poolside private cabana was surprisingly affordable for the day, so I recommend looking into it.

    2. The Four Seasons is smoke free as it has no casino. Nice pool but no idea re breakfast.

    3. Not many smoke-free hotels on the strip. Vdara may fit the bill. Complimentary breakfast isn’t really a thing on the strip, but you may be able to book a room with daily vouchers in a package.

    4. I think Park MGM may now be non-smoking post pandemic. I don’t know that free breakfast, or free anything really, is going to be a thing at Vegas hotel though. You may be able to get an upgraded room if you tip the front desk staff though.

    5. The Aria is fabulous and it’s smoke free in the rooms, but not the casino.

    6. not the question you asked…. but this reminded me of the time that I travelled to Las Vegas for a business trip & was supposed to be in a non-smoking room at the Venetian. At the check in desk they informed me that they would put me in a “smoking optional” room.

      As in … it was totally ok if I didn’t smoke.

      Unsurprisingly it smelled like an ashtray & I had a headache within 90 seconds of being in the room. They moved me.

      1. As recently as 10 years ago, most hotels in Vegas didn’t have non-smoking rooms. It was hard to travel there as an asthmatic.

  21. I posted this a couple of days ago in response to a thread that included Keurig. SF Bay Coffee Company sells all their single serve pods in compostable packaging. They have lot of different options. The pods can’t be composted at home and need to be put in the green bin.

  22. I’m interested in going to the Amalfi Coast (Positano) with my husband and elementary age child this May. I’m not affected by motion sickness but both of them get carsick and seasick fairly easily. I gather both the drive from Naples to Positano and the ferry/bus from Positano to nearby towns can be very bad for people who get motion sick easily. I obviously don’t want to plan a trip that’s going to make my family miserable, and I also don’t want to be stuck in Positano the whole time because we have no way of getting around that doesn’t make them sick. Thoughts from anyone who has issues with motion and has visited? Is this a recipe for disaster? Fwiw I’ve been to Amalfi previously myself but since I’m not affected by motion I can’t judge how bad it will be for them.

    1. I haven’t been there, but as someone who gets easily motion sick, planes and trains are much better (though not problem-free) than cars, buses, and anything on water. I travel a lot less than I used to because being motion sick is so miserable that it really destroys my ability to enjoy a trip. If this is really an issue for your family and sounds like it will be an issue here, I’d suggest somewhere you can fly directly or take a train to and not spend a lot of time driving on windy roads.

      1. Naples is the closest airport and my understanding is you can only train part of the way and then you’d have to take a bus. I think a car would be better for them than the train + bus combo. The first part of the drive (the part you can replace with a train) isn’t windy anyway.

    2. I went on a trip to the Amalfi coast and I get carsick extremely easy and didn’t have a problem with this. The only issue is the local train that my guidebook referred to as the “slowest train in the Western hemisphere” – it was okay when it was empty but when it was crowded (Sorrento to Pompeii maybe?) it was horrible.

      I think driving from Naples to Positano would probably be better.

    3. I wouldn’t do this. You train to Sorrento and then you need to get on a bus, and it’s a winding route along the coast. That’s just to get there. How will you get around in town should also be a consideration, you can walk a lot of places but if you need to take a taxi, it’s also pretty winding. Your best bet would be to rent a car, I suppose, but I’m the type of person who will drive anywhere in the world and driving along the coast in Italy wouldn’t be my favorite as a non-seasick inclined person. I believe there’s also ferry options, but unless Dramamine and a sea band will work for them for car/bus or ferry I’d pick a different destination. I haven’t been there for a while but I just remember there was a moment I was not a fan of when our bus has to back up on a hairpin turn with a pretty sheer drop over the cliff directly below us to let another bus come around.

      1. We’re definitely not driving ourselves. I dislike driving in Italy in general, and especially don’t want to drive in this part of it. We were planning to hire a driver to take us to/from the Naples airport to our hotel in Positano, and then to visit a few other nearby towns for the day via the ferry. We’re not planning to go to Capri, since I know the ferry there is pretty rough and I’ve been and don’t have a whole lot of desire to go back. My kid generally does better on boats than my husband, but my husband also has more options for meds (kids can’t take anything except dramamine)

        1. Honestly, unless husband and son are the ones pushing for this particular trip, I would choose another itinerary. Otherwise, when things go wrong, you will feel responsible and they will hold it against you, as well.

          1. This. People who don’t get motion/sea sick don’t understand how awful you feel. Plus, do you really want to have to think about carrying air sickness bags/meds/change of clothing or risk your kid throwing up all over one of you? As an adult I can take more meds (and my aim is fine so I just need the bag handy, not clothing changes) but I still will regularly get ill on boats/windy roads/amusement park rides. My kid gets sick more violently and with less warning and he’s 10, I would avoid this itinerary at all costs.

          2. My kid is younger than 10 but can aim into a bag just fine, so we’re well past the point of needing clothing changes.

            I definitely don’t want to make them miserable but I guess I don’t really know how bad this would be and I was hoping to hear from people who’ve ridden in cars or on ferries in the area. It seems that only person on this thread has actually visited and she said she didn’t have issues.

            I hear you on feeling guilty if it’s bad for them though. I’m the one who chose the destination (it’s for my milestone birthday and is somewhere I really want to go) but my husband is pushing me hard not to change it and saying they’ll take medicine and be fine. So I don’t know.

      2. I’m not a fan of the south of France. I also really want to go to Italy — I love the food, wine and culture there, and just don’t consider other European countries an adequate substitute. Driving is not an issue in general – we’ve driven all over the US and in several European countries including Italy on prior family trips. That part of Italy just has notoriously twisty roads. So if we don’t go to Amalfi we will go to another part of Italy, possibly the Emilia-Romagna region or Liguria (we’ve been to Cinque Terre, but there are a lot of other beach towns in that region). But Amalfi is where I really wanted to go. Sigh.

    5. I’ve been to the area a couple of times, and my normally quite motion sick mother was fine on the car transfer. The roads are quite hairy though, and the bus did make her feel very sick. If not doing much travelling outside Positano itself would ruin the trip for you I’d maybe reconsider.

    1. That was me! Thanks so much :)

      I just started Tender Is The Flesh this morning and it is, indeed, disquieting.

    2. I can recommend Bones & All by Camille DeAngelis as a spooky read. In fact it’s so disturbing I couldn’t get through it. It’s about cannibalism and it’s soon to be a movie starring Timothee Chalamet.

  24. Going to Amsterdam fro 4 days. I will spend plenty time just walking around and will do Van Gogh & Rijksmuseum, canal boat tour. No interest in Heineken or A.Frank museum.
    Any recommendations on what not to miss, things/places you found interesting and not well-known? Feel free to hit me with cafe & restaurant recos as well.
    Would you recommend to dedicate 1 day to a trip to another NL city – like Utrecht or Haag? I live 2hr flight away from NL, so it is not a “now-or-never” situation.

    1. No interest in the Anne Frank Museum? That’s literally the biggest thing not to miss.

      1. I know it may seem strange or shocking, but I have lived in Poland for a few years, where the imprint of 1939-1945 was omnipresent. Visit to Oswiencim was one of the strongest experiences in my life and would not recommend it to everyone. I want this trip to be fun/art :)

        1. I lived in Germany and wrote my undergrad thesis on the long term effects of guilt over the crimes from 1933-45 on the German population’s relationship with the EU… still went to the A Frank House. You don’t *have* to go but that seems like an odd reason not to.

      2. Yeah that’s baffling to me too. And I’ve spent considerable time in Poland and been to Auschwitz too. I still can’t imagine skipping the Anne Frank house.

        1. Me neither personally, but it’s also weird to be so pushy about how an internet stranger plans her vacation?

          1. Well she asked for advice and my advice is don’t skip the Anne Frank house? She can do whatever she wants.

        2. Let’s leave it at “we have different preferences on how to spend time on holidays”. A friend of mine who is joining me for the trip might go though, so thank you for such good reviews.

    2. Loved loved loved Utrecht but relatively less to do besides stroll and eat (great things both). The Hague is great too- definitely would highly recommend the Louwman car museum there or the Mauritshuit. In Amsterdam I’d recommend a bike tour too – fun way to see the city (we did ours at either 8 or 9 on a Sunday morning which was great traffic wise). I’d reconsider the AF museum, it was truly moving. I did not like the Van Gogh museum. If you’re there on a Wednesday, check if there’s an open rehearsal (free) during lunch at the concertgebouw. Really nice bite sized piece of culture in one of the most acoustically amazing concert halls in the world.

      1. Thank you, will check those! I am lucky I am going during work week, so counting on lesser crowds in tourist spots.

      1. I am already looking on how to combine. The car museum tip from anon above tipped the scales heavily in favor of a 1-day stop in Haag.

    4. Stork is a great seafood restaurant on the water across from the Central Station. Also try and do an Indonesian rijstaffel dinner — we did ours at Restaurant Blauw which is very popular but I can’t recommend because the food was great but the service was abysmal. I know you don’t want to go to Anne Frank House but there’s a pancake restaurant next door that was surprisingly great so you might want to check it out.

      We did a full day walking tour including time in the Rijksmuseum with this guide from Tours By Locals and she was great, if a bit expensive: https://www.toursbylocals.com/TBL/WebObjects/ToursByLocals.woa/1/wo/9mz6DtnBCC90DSbmV3bHOg/9.73.1.3.1.11.1.5.1 Highly recommend.

    5. For a history stop, I’d recommend the Amsterdam city archive, the Municipality archive in the Bazel building. Glimpses of a very varied history, including colonialism, slavery and WWII, in a beautiful historical building.

    6. Rembrandt’s house is great — and honestly a friend and I had the best time at the Tassenmuseum Hendrikje – Museum of Bags and Purses!

      1. I an shocked there is such a thing as a museum of purses and now it is on my list. Thanks!

  25. In an effort to improve my overall health and also to hopefully lose some weight, I am cutting way back on my wine and alcohol consumption. But on nights I don’t have a glass of wine, I can’t stop snacking! I never used to want chips or cookies at night, but I find I can’t sit and relax unless I’m eating something sweet or salty. Part of my motivation for cutting back the wine is losing weight, so I’m really struggling with these cravings! Any recommendations?

    1. Can you start knitting or doing crochet? My friends quitting smoking swore it helped just to have something to do with their hands.

      1. I think there’s something to this. If knitting/crochet is not your thing, maybe coloring books.

        1. That’s a great thought. The last few years have worn me down, and I wish I could take up knitting/crochet, but struggled with those skills even as young, well rested adult. Coloring is about the level of skill I can handle these days!

          Even during the day, I feel hungrier for sweet and salty snacks. It’s a sobering (ha!) thought to realize how many calories and sugar I must have been getting through alcohol. Appreciate your help in how to power through cravings :) Hoping to create a new, healthier set of habits!

          1. Look up English paper piecing. You glue fabric to shapes so the cutting/gluing is great for evenings with less brain power then sew together by hand. I struggled to knit or crochet but love it.

    2. I have been experimenting with various fermented and interesting drinks – like making my own kombucha, kefir, and shrubs. They’re not no-calorie, but it’s less than wine and it’s something to fuss with in the same way that making a cocktail and relaxing with a drink is. Would something like that work for you?

      2. But check the label if you care about calories. I like af beers but not sure how many calories you really save!

    5. I have the same craving for something sweet, and while I’m not an alcohol consumer, I still like the idea of a “nightcap.” I’ve enjoyed trying different mocktails or just drinking kombucha in a fancy glass. For mocktails, they can get really sugary/calorically dense if you don’t watch, so I just typically go with a sparkling water + citrus + maybe some muddled fruit strained in +ice.

      1. Also, try gum. It helps a lot for people who are quitting smoking and drinking for good.

    7. When I quit drinking, I started eating a TON of sugar. Alcohol/wine has a ton of sugar, so your body is used to getting that hit of sugar at night, which is why you’re craving it. It might help to think of what you’re experiencing as withdrawal symptoms, and the best way to curb them is to fight through and not give in – eventually your hormones will even out and the cravings will lessen.

    8. I also love a glass of something to wind down! I don’t let myself have wine on weeknights (calories), but I find that herbal teas (sometimes I add honey) or playing around with making fun drinks with sparkling water (things as simple as fresh pressed lemon and one teaspoon of sugar mixed with a large glass of sparking water) is really satisfying and hits the “something sweet and ritual-y” spot.

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