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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. Oooh: I love this wrap front top from Nordstrom's affordable Halogen line. It looks comfortable but professional, is machine washable, and comes in three different colors: red, navy, and black. It's $48-$58 at Nordstrom, available in regular, petite, and plus sizes. Halogen Asymmetrical Wrap Front Top Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-3)Sales of note for 11.5.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – 11/5 only – 60% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 25% off with your GAP Inc. credit card
- Bloomingdales is offering gift cards ($20-$1200) when you spend between $100-$4000+. The promotion ends 11/10, and the gift cards expire 12/24.
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Fall clearance event, up to 85% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall favorites; prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Up to 30% off on new arrivals
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy one, get one – 50% off everything!
- White House Black Market – Holiday style event, take 25% off your entire purchase
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Anon for this
First world problem alert:
I currently have a job that pays around$200k post tax, 35-40 hour work week, decent seniority, 10% or less travel and no weekend/holiday work plus a great office environment. problem is that I seem to have become very comfortable in the sense that I don’t seem to want to lean in anymore. I’ve always been Type A so struggling with my apparent lack of ambition.
The work is intellectually challenging but I know I’m capable of much more. I’ve become …lazy, I think. After 20 years in the workforce slogging to get ahead, it’s jarring now to think of myself as unambitious. I am working to keep myself busy, not because I really need to.
Have any of you experienced this sort of change in your attitude to work? How do you deal with it?
Anon for this
I’m in my early 40s, married with two kids….if this makes a difference.
anon
Can you allot yourself a certain amount of time to enjoy things as they are and then dive back in full speed? I think if you’re so capable you should try to make the most of it. That said, there is nothing at all wrong with not being ambitious.
Anonymous
Enjoy it? Seems like you’ve achieved your career goals.
anon
+1. If you find yourself with spare time and energy, can you shift your focus to something else? Maybe now is the time to pursue that non-profit board position, or volunteer to coach the kid’s team, or learn to skateboard. You can find challenges and fulfillment outside of work.
Idea
+1 find something else to be ambitious at.
Or, switch up the job if you’d like to keep your focus there. But you know there’s a lot outside of “work” and “job” and “career”, right?
Anon for this
That’s what DH says:) anyway, I just started a new hobby that I’m channeling lots of time into, and have applied for new roles in my company. Let’s see what comes my way and meanwhile I shall take your advice and try to “enjoy it”.
hoola hoopa
+1 High five yourself every day. Seriously. Well done :)
Anonymous
Mid-40s, married, two children, two living parents who are 12 hours away (one of whom recently had chemo for a stage 2 cancer), one living grandparent 4 hours away, numerous cousins, 1 sibling 20+ hours away, 1 brand-new passport with no stamps in it yet.
I am working fervently on my life and plan to spend the next 40+ years on that. I work FT still.
I am not a terribly religious person (I go mainly for the music), but I believe that the rector is correct when he allocates the first 50% of one’s life to working on the resume and the second 50% of one’s life to the obituary.
Meg March
Oh, I like that comment from the rector.
CPA Lady
I don’t think gradually changing your priorities over time is a bad thing, so unless you’re unhappy (as opposed to just surprised with yourself), I would work on learning to accept it. I’m getting the feeling like you want to get to the top of the ladder because you think you “should” or should want to just because you are capable. But have you ever really stopped to ask yourself if its what you actually want? Or are you just doing it because you “should”?
Ambition requires a lot of trade offs, especially 20 years straight of it. Do you think that contentment is a valid and valuable state of mind? If so, maybe try to think of yourself as “content” rather than “unambitious”. It sounds like you’ve worked very hard for a long tine and have gotten to a really objectively good place in your career. And who knows, there are lulls in everything. Maybe this is just a lull. It doesnt mean you’re going to be in this position permanently.
lawsuited
I think this is not losing ambition, but rather gaining perspective. There are things that are more important than killing yourself at work – your husband, your kids, your friends, your aging parents (if you still have them in your life, your good days with them are becoming fewer and fewer. And it’s possible to kill it at work without killing yourself. If the work is intellectually stimulating and you’re producing good work product, then that’s a success.
Anon for this
CPA Lady and law suited
You are both spot on. I’m struggling with being “content”. We emigrated to e country where we live years ago and we’ve always been driven by first generation immigrant “hunger”. It’s a struggle letting go of that.
Also my south Asian family is the achievement oriented ” you can do it” type and it is a struggle actually letting go of that mindset.
I am going to print out your wise words.
Thanks to all for the sage advice.
Scandia
This resonates a lot with me. Love my life, enjoy my work, feel passionate about of lot of things in my current position, pay is ok. But my boss is going into retirement and everybody seem to think I will apply for his job. Only, what he does is management, and to be the boss would stress me out completely. Yet I feel strange not wanting the job, like I am supposed to want it. And honestly, I would only like it for the prestige, not for the actually work.
Faye
+1. For Type As, I think a lot of our 20s and early 30s are singularly focused on achieving the next “level up” in adulthood. Get a job, get a promotion or two, get married, get dog, get kid 1, get kid 2. Then you turn 35 and realize the next level up isn’t so clearly defined by society. You have to define for yourself what matters and how you want to fill your days, and you have to weigh the tradeoffs that come with any decision.
Come up with a 5 year plan for your life. What 1 or 2 things do you want to be able to talk about at your 30 year class reunion? Do you want to hit C level? Do you want to hike Mt Kilimanjaro? Do you want to be the house where all the kids hang out after school? Do you want to start a new career? Do you want to introduce your kids to the world through travel? Do you want to own a yoga studio?
Then start achieving those. Work becomes the way you afford to pursue your goal, so it becomes less about “keeping busy” and more about “this is the job that will give me 4 weeks off to take the kids to China” or whatever. Type As need to constantly feel like they’re achieving something. Set a clear goal, map out steps to get there, and then focus your efforts on that.
Anonymous
Not OP and actually early in my career but this struck home with me. Thanks.
Bonnie
+1 lawsuited. There is so much pressure to lean in and keep striving up. I’m happy where I am career wise and though I could keep going up the ladder, that’s less important to me than quality of life and family.
Anonymous
Right. Consider, what is your ultimate goal? It seems like your years of ambition have paid off, maybe now it’s time to enjoy it?
Scarlett
I think people forget that the point of leaning in is to get to a comfortable career place where you can enjoy your life. You did that. Time to enjoy, and no shame in that. There’s so much more to life than work.
Senior Attorney
Are you me? I’m in about the same boat although I’m quite a bit older than you and my child is grown. I’ve decided to just coast a little at work and focus on other things. I’ve had a lot going on in my personal life (fairly recent divorce, big house remodel, now planning a wedding and another move) and I’ve also gotten really involved in community activities.
I sometimes say my work-life balance is awesome and all it cost me was my pride. Sometimes it stings a little to see others passing me on the career ladder, but to me the trade-offs are more than worth it.
Pep
Mentor a younger/newer colleague?
Meg Murry
I was also going to suggest mentoring, or getting involved with a way to make your company better.
Rather than focusing on “climb the ladder, get to the next promotion”, could you look at what parts of your job you enjoy more than others, and work on how to maximize the time you spend on those parts, and transferring or training up a junior level employee to take on the parts you don’t enjoy so much? Is there something your role could expand into?
One good analogy I’ve heard is that you’ve spent your life accelerating to get to this point. If you’ve hit the speed limit for this stretch of road, it’s ok to go on cruise control for a little while and just maintain that speed, while looking for the next turnoff, on -ramp or detour.
anon
First world problems is right…. it’s hard to read about your life without being jealous. You’ve accomplished enough in your life to be able to figure this one out.
Anon
Wowza. What do you do?
Anne Elliott
I have an MBA and work for a corporate (non lawyer). But I live in a Low-tax country so we have enough socked away for retirement.
Anonymous
Does anyone have a script for giving notice? I’m leaving a small law firm for an opportunity in another field. I’ve never left a job before without an obvious explanation why (eg., moving cross-country for family reasons) so I’m nervous and not sure what to say.
anonymous
You do have an obvious explanation- you’re switching fields. That’s much easier to say than simply “y’all weren’t cutting it anymore, toodles.” I’ve done the same and I everyone was very understanding and supportive.
“I have accepted a job at X. I’ve enjoyed working here and appreciate all of the opportunities I’ve had, but I am excited to move to xzy.”
Anonymous
Just say that? “I appreciate everything I’ve learned in this organization, but am leaving to pursue a great opportunity in another field. My last day will be X, and of course I’ll transition my work appropriately ahead of my departure.”
Daisy
You simply do not have to explain yourself. The script above is perfect and leave it at that. If they do pry as to why, it’s because you want to try something new/different/it was a great opportunity/it’s the right decision for you at this time, etc. Generic answers and move on.
Anonymous
I agree that you don’t owe anyone an explanation, but I think it’s kind of weird and cagey to not tell people where you’re going. I know some people are deliberately secretive, but it’s usually when they’re going to a competitor. Since you’re pursuing something in another field I would use the script above but instead of simply saying “leaving to pursue a great opportunity in another field” I would say “Leaving to become a ___ at ___.” If they press you on why you would want to take this job you can just repeat that it’s a better opportunity and it’s the right decision for you at this time. But I think you should say where you’re going or you’ll be That Employee That Was So Secretive When She Left.
CMC
I was intentionally vague when I left my last job because the environment was so negative I assumed that if I told anyone I’d have two weeks of, “I know so-and-so at the company you’re going to and they hate it and you’re making a mistake”. I didn’t need that, so I didn’t tell them. For what it’s worth I wasn’t going to a competitor. I told anyone that was genuinely interested that I’d be updating my LinkedIn profile in about a month.
Shayla
The script depends upon what reaction you expect and how much you’ve loved being there. When I left my firm with no warm feelings, the script was, “I know you’ll be excited for me as I’ve accepted a position at X place and my last day here will be Y. I’m working on transition memos and will touch base with HR, but please let me know what I should be doing with my final days here.”
Someone on this s!te gave the advice that you can tell them what their reaction should be, and that was really helpful for my situation.
Daisy
Leading with “I know you’ll be excited for me…” would rub me wrong, warm feelings about the exit, or not.
Shayla
It’s definitely YMMV. It was well received when I used it.
MJ
Query – I have been noticing of late that a lot of high heeded shoes have chunky, as opposed to stiletto or thin, heels. Are chunky heels coming back in for Fall? Is this something I should be adding to my wardrobe because we are in a transitional year, or are thinner heel shapes here to stay (for now)? What’s your heel strategy for Fall?
Anne Elliott
I actually like the chunky heels (depends on the shoe) but for now, I love pointy toe wedges. I wear them all year round, don’t think I’ll ever go back to heels!
pugsnbourbon
+1. Got a bargain pair of pointy-toe wedges with a narrower wedge part and I wear them all the time. My days are unpredictable and even if I’m dressed up, I need to be able to hustle.
TO Lawyer
I think chunky heels are more trendy so I like them for going-out type shoes – they’re more comfy anyways and tend to look a bit more casual. But for work, I think I’m mostly going to stick to my 3-inch pumps. Unless I find something really awesome that will work at work.
jwalk
I think chunkier heels are definitely having a moment, and if they appeal to you go ahead and pick some up. On the other hand, thin heels are pretty timeless so I don’t feel any pressure to trade them in for chunkier heels (not my thing).
aBr
There’s been a new discovery of the old school brands with chunky heels (think Ferragamo). These shoes have been around forever without changing (think Queen Elizabeth in the 1980s). It’s not really a new trend since women often switch to these shoes later on. The new trend is just that younger women in the 20s and early 30s are discovering them.
Anonymous
The block heel is pretty classic (think of Jacqueline Kennedy in her black Roger Vivier low block-heel shoes).
Higher heels that are very blocky (or even flared) are trendy.
Scarlett
They are back in along with flared jeans. I’m happy about both. If you keep your work wardrobe on trend, add them to the mix. Personally, I’m an advocate for doing that – I think it signals staying current and that’s helpful especially as you age in the workforce.
Senior Attorney
I agree. Plus I feel like keeping your shoes current can help make your actual clothing look current even if it’s a few seasons old.
anonforthis
I have been approached by a company called AlphaSights. I am in academia and have published articles and to research on subject X. The person who contacted me says that she has a client in the industry who would like to consult with me on issues related to subject X and will pay me $200/hour. Has anyone heard of this? It is legitimate?
Anonymous
I’ve heard of similar arrangements but it really depends on the field for a better answer.
Anonymous
I don’t know this company, but this is not unusual. There are companies that collect consulting contacts and then make arrangements with companies needing advice.
My firm has a group that does this in house.
Meg March
AlphaSights is one of the big competitors in this market, and is legit. GLG is another. They essentially just find experts for their clients to consult with on whatever issue the client is facing. My old firm used to use AlphaSights to identify experts for our cases, and I have friends who work for GLG.
Jen
Legit company. There are a few others out there as well- Coleman, GLG, and another I can’t think of off the top of my head.
FWIW I’ve done engagements with them and set my own price- it’s higher than $200/hr. You may want to up your rate. I find that it takes a lot of my time to coordinate schedules (often the companies that use firms like this have last minute schedule changes) so it isn’t just the hour or two we spend on the phone, but 30-60 minutes of my time (or more) just getting scheduled.
brokentoe
I don’t know about this particular company, but I’ve done a couple consultations with a similar firm GLG. $200/hour is low – when they asked me, I gave them my rate for these purposes at slightly more than double that and no one batted an eye (compare that to my usual for-profit rate of $150/hr – I’m not a lawyer). Clients of these companies tend to have deep pockets (think hedge funds, private equity firms) and $$ isn’t an issue. I’ve found they are usually seeking fairly basic information (in an area where I am an expert, so there’s little prep for me) in a conversational meeting that lasts 30-45 minutes.
brokentoe
Oh and while I haven’t experienced issues with scheduling, I find the clients usually want/need to meet quite quickly with little advance notice – and if you aren’t available when they want you, the company doing the matchmaking will quickly move on to another consultant.
Viva Las Megas
I would like to buy a nice, quality pair of basic black pumps that will stand the test of time. I have never spent more than maybe $50 on shoes – I am trying to focus more on quality pieces. This is hard for me to do with clothes given my constantly shifting size. I noticed, however, that my go to black pumps are showing wear and realized that if I bought a high quality leather pair they would last ages. I only wear them in the office, never outside.
If I want this to be a good experience, how much should I plan to spend aND what brands should I focus on? Flat, wide feet.
AKB
I wear a lot of Cole Haan – stalking the sales on their website and department stores. I pay anywhere from $60-$150, and they last forever and look great. I spend a lot of money on purses and certain foundation pieces, but I am more modest with shoes because they get torn up over time.
Manhattanite
For me, I spend $100 or so (up to $150 max) and expect 2-3 years. After that, styles change. My current fav shoes are rockports, brooks brothers (big sale), Cole haan (sale). I have narrow, flat feet although a wider toe box.
Clerky
I have been incredibly impressed with this brand and this particular shoe. Lucky sizes left only, but keep an eye out for this brand. Leather shoe AND lining so your feet don’t stink (which is often rare at this price point) and super comfortable. I love these shoes. I agree Cole Haan is another good brand.
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/louise-et-cie-federica-almond-toe-pump-women/4398156?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&fashioncolor=BLACK
KT
THIS. I love Louise et cie. They are remarkably good quality, particularly for the price
BB
Don’t forget about cobblers. A really good one can both totally revamp old shoes and help you protect new expensive shoes so they last longer.
Anony
But do not buy Cole Haan from Marshalls, TJ Maxx etc. They are a subpar product created just for those stores. Stick with department store sales.
Anonymous
Well – not always. There are particular style names that are specific to the outlet-type stores (even the Cole Haan Outlet) – like Elsie vs Tali wedges. Dept-store style names can still work their way in.
Bonnie
I don’t think that’s true at all. Cole Haan does make subpar items for their own outlets but does not have a special line for Marshalls, etc. Those stores carry older styles that are no longer sold in the Cole Haan stores. In fact, I’ve bought a few pairs of legitimate first run quality at Marshalls.
Anonymous
I have seen their outlet/discount line at Nordstrom Rack.
Beans
Lk Bennett. Look out for sales. They are also on some of the flash sale sites occasionally. I have several pairs. They hold up well and are beautiful, traditional shoes.
Anonymous
For flat wide feet, I would highly highly recommend AGLs (you can find them on the Nordstrom website). They’re comfortable right out of the box, and they hold up beautifully. I have very finicky feet and am very hard on my shoes and these are my go-tos.
Juggling Dates
I have been talking to two guys from Tinder and have a first date set up for both back to back saturday then sunday. I have a lot more in common with/more attracted to the first guy than the second but I want to give both a chance. I habit of getting swept away on a first date then putting my eggs in one basket and ultimately getting disappointed (as my friend says, ‘i need to wait and let the guy prove himself’) so i want look at my options now before getting too excited. I’m probably over thinking it but how to you juggle getting to know both people and giving each a fair shot?
anonymous
Have you done much online dating? The person who shows up at the bar next to you can be much different than the person you’re talking to. And much less attractive. Or announce he’s in recovery. Or unemployed. Or still owns property with his ex. Or has an incurable STI. Or is planning on taking 4 months off to travel, and he’s leaving in a few months. Or is only here for 1 month on a med school rotation. All true stories. Or maybe there’s nothing wrong, but it’s just not right enough. SO MANY fun things can come up on that first, second or third date. You just hold your horses and don’t assume they’re all perfect people.
Anonymous
Yup, this.
Adding to the litany…the guy could be separated and not yet divorced (something you do not want to touch with a 10 ft pole – trust my broken heart on this), the guy’s joke about how you should wear a blonde wig could belie a serious fetish when he openly ogles all the blondes in the bar and ignores brunette you, he could no-show you because he got drunk at the ballgame. All true.
I didn’t understand when people first told me to think of it as meeting a new friend, but that’s it. Choose guys you’d actually want to be friends with and hang out with them. If there’s a spark, great, if not, you have someone to swap grill recipes with. (Also true story.)
Princess Consuela Bananahammock
I was separated but not divorced and owned property with my ex when I signed up for Tinder. I’ve been exclusively dating the first guy I met through the site for four months now and it’s going really well. So — it can work. :) Sometimes it just depends on your state’s stupid divorce wait period law.
Anonymous
I don’t have an answer but my first thought was think of yourself like the bachelorette but on a smaller scale. Not in the this is reality TV and let’s do ridiculous things while I’m surrounded by men way but rather in the I’m looking for what’s best for me, trying to get to know each, and then I’ll decide way.
Ellen
Yay Kat and Kate– great asymetric wrap front top, but NOT for work as an attorney at law — mabye in the fashion industry, of which there are lots of HIVE women, but hardley for court. I will however show ROSA, b/c she will look great in this — besides, she knows someone at Nordstrom’s in Weschester who she ALWAYS buys from and she get’s the BEST stuff right away — the lady puts aside stuff she knows Rosa will look great in, and when Rosa come’s in, it is WAITEING for her! If ONLEY I had such a person at L&T here in the City! FOOEY!
As for the OP, do NOT write off any guy to soon. Even on Tinder, which I looked at. A guy may seem good and turn out to be a looser. On the other hand, a guy who look’s like a Schlub could turn out to be OK. Do NOT be to rash in judgeing peeople just by their face’s. I got swept away by Sheketovits’ personality, even tho he looked like a schlub (and was), so I am not the best to judge, but take your time b/f sleepeing with any of them b/c men tend to think thru their appendeges, if you know what I mean. You tell #1 to keep it to himself while you meet #2. And, DO NOT sleep with either of them until you consult again with the HIVE! YAY!!!!
Anon
Lower your expectations.
January
+1. Dating more than one guy can be a good way to do this, actually – you have more of an opportunity to assess your own feelings without worrying (quite so much) about whether he likes you, where it’s going, etc. And keep in mind that you haven’t even met your first choice Tinder guy yet, so he could totally turn out to be a dud in person. Good luck, and have fun!
b
I do this all the time. Go on both of the dates, relax, have fun and be in the moment. I think I’m really hearing two concerns here:
1 – You’re worried about balancing your own life with dating multiple guys. It can be so exhilarating to be meeting someone new, but no matter how good it seems via text, you’re never going to know about chemistry until you get there. You might say “nope” to one of them right away, and that’s ok. Or, you may want to get to know both better, and that’s ok, too. Make sure that how you schedule things leaves you time for you. I’ve never found a guy to react badly if he asks what you’re doing tomorrow and you tell him “I have plans tomorrow, but how about Saturday at 3 instead”?
2 – What does a “fair shot” mean? Like above, you’ll figure it out pretty quickly if you want to get to know them both better or not, and don’t close your options off to only these two. If it’s been 4-5 dates and you’re still having a great time with one or both, then maybe you start thinking about narrowing down the field. Don’t get so caught up in the excitement that you fail to communicate, especially after a few dates. It’s totally fair game to ask them what they’re looking for close to the beginning: are you looking for a relationship? are you keeping your options open? what does casual mean to you? Throwing all your eggs in one basket isn’t a mistake unless you’re not on the same page with him, and don’t realize that he doesn’t want the same things you do.
Calling All Angelenos and Party Planners!
Hi Hive! I would like to draw upon the collective wisdom of the hive please!
I am planning my partner’s 30th birthday weekend in mid August. He is going to have about 20 family members and friends (ranging in age from 9-75!) from all over flying into LA (where he lives). I live in Texas and am doing all the planning from here and am not super familiar with LA. Here are my questions – I’d be grateful for any and all advice! He wants to charter a boat and spend an afternoon on the water. Other than that he has given me no other guidance.We are also renting a house for about 15 of the people coming in.
– Biggest one: Chartering the boat? Has anyone done this? Where do I start? What’s a reasonable price for 20-30 people for a few hours? WHERES UBER YACHT WHEN YOU NEED IT? (tm Ellen Caps)
– Will probably use Airbnb or VRBO to find a house, favorite neighborhoods? Other websites I should look into?
– Favorite 30th birthday activities?
– Tips on party planning for this number of folks?
– Favorite LA bakery/restaurants for purchasing large quantities of food? We’ll probably carry out due to the size of the group.
– ANY other tips!
Heeeelp! Thanks all and happy Almost-Friday! :)
Seventh Sister
My friends and I did a VRBO in Venice which was super-fun (it was on one of the walk streets). Not sure about the current prices – we did it a while back and it was very nice.
As for food, my favorite takeouts for a big group are: Bay Cities Deli (Italian), Gaby’s (Middle Eastern), Versailles Cuban, Roscoe’s Chicken and Waffles, and LaRocca’s Pizza (Culver City). But my very very favorite thing to do is have someone come and make tacos (beef, pork, chicken, etc.). It’s not usually a “cart” – usually they bring a couple of card tables and a rounded griddle/grill that is powered by propane. Your partner probably has a friend who has a friend who has a card from a taco catering person.
Ralphs Grocery (yes, I know that sounds gross) actually has nice-ish sandwiches and perfectly adequate, inexpensive cakes (there are some that are nicer than others). There is also a big Costco in West LA for other supplies. For something nicer without the attitude (e.g., Sprinkles, Sweet Lady Jane, Hotcakes), I like Susiecakes in Brentwood.
nutella
+1 to Susiecakes!!!! I think theirs taste the best and they are normal and yes, no ‘tude.
In LA, people tend to stick around their neighborhoods, so look for a lot of great places nearby. Susiecakes is in Brentwood and just lovely. Not far from Santa Monica, another great neighborhood and close to the water. Venice is fun and quirky and also near the water. Westwood (UCLA) might not have all the students yet, depending on when you visit in August. All have great restaurants nearby. Ralph’s is also a good option for deli platters.
As for activities unique to LA… Dodgers game? Korean karaoke? (There is a nearby old school bowling alley near one of these joints and typically taco trucks outside.) The Getty? Movie at Hollywood Forever Cemetery (sounds weird, I know, but you picnic and it’s a unique-to-LA thing!) Hiking Runyon Canyon – note that this is not like hiking a real mountain, you can hike as little or as much as you want. Most people are in sneakers and yoga clothes but you will occasionally see someone in flip flops, though you will be more comfortable in appropriate attire/shoes.
Finally, even if you tend to stick around your neighborhood, be aware of transportation. LA is very spread out and it would probably be helpful for your group to rent 1 or 2 cars. Also please be careful wrt drinking/driving, call uber!
Seventh Sister
Uber is very easy to use and very comprehensive in LA – I don’t think I’ve ever waited more than a few minutes for an Uber. If you’ve never used it before, consider going in groups of two or three. Big tourist areas/hotels *might* have actual cabs circling, but 95% of the time you’d probably have to call for a cab.
As for activities, LACMA and the Tar Pits are usually a hit with tourists, especially with the food trucks along Wilshire. For something a little different and a nice view of LA, the Baldwin Hills Scenic Overlook in Culver City has a nice view of the city. You can take a walking tour of Disney Hall, which is great if you have any music / architecture fans. One branch of MOCA basically across the street from Disney Hall. (I haven’t been to the Broad yet but it’s supposed to be amazing.)
If people must go shopping, I’d pick the Santa Monica Promenade over the Grove, but to be honest, I think the Dallas Neiman Marcus locations are sooooo much nicer than the one in Beverly Hills.
Angelenos aren’t generally the friendliest, except for one thing. If you are on the bus or Metro or light rail and ask someone for directions, people are super-helpful and you may get two or three different suggestions about how to get where you are going.
purplesneakers
I have a test in half an hour that’s the first step towards Dream!Job.
Wish me luck, y’all?
Idea
Good luck! I know it will all turn out for the best! You’re awesome!
Meg March
You got this!
Senior Attorney
LUCK!!!!!
Anonymous
Please tell me I’m not the only one who loves trashy TV. This season of Real Housewives NY is so good!
anon-oh-no
I love it too!
Meg March
My best friend and I were just saying how, contrary to most, summer is the best tv season for us, because we only love trashy reality tv. So many shows that are perfect to split a bottle of rose over!
Anonymous
Whispering Angel, I hope! (Please tell me you listen to B*tch Sesh!)
Annie
Agreed! I’ve been thinking that this season of RHONY is actually kind of like a “Real Housewives: All-Stars” season. It is SO GOOD.
lawsuited
Not a Real Housewives watcher, but I have watched every season of Bachelor/Bachelorette since ever!
Nono
I’m sorry, I think that being entertained by this kind of sensational trash is why people are not appalled by someone like Donald Trump. And now look what happened.
Anonymous
Wow, that’s a big leap…I’m not sure why you can’t find trashy TV entertaining by still be horrified by the thought of a racist, sexist, Muslim-hating unbelievably thin-skinned narcissist having access to the nuclear codes.
Nono
Because your dollars are supporting the trashy, substance free, sensationalist culture that creates him and sustains him. It doesn’t matter that your show is different from his…
anon
Being entertained by it and voting it into the highest office in the land are two completely different things. The inability to tell the difference is why some people are not appalled by Donald Trump.
Third time is the charm
Any women of color have problems booking a place through Air Bnb? We’re looking to rent a place in DC this summer for a vacation. My profile pic makes it clear that I’m South Asian. I filtered by places that were still available for the dates we wanted, and tried to book THREE different homes. Rejected each time. Two simply rejected me with no reason, the other said that the dates had already been taken (despite saying to the contrary on Air Bnb).
NPR recently did a segment about how many Air Bnb hosts don’t rent to minorities. There’s now even a hashtag on twitter, #airbnbwhileblack
DH then tried to book a home (he’s also South Asian) and was similarly rejected.
I’m pretty floored, because all it would take a host to do is to search my name and learn that I’m a boring attorney, went to a prestigious law school, etc. And I thought DC was multicultural/international and so this wouldn’t be an issue.
Anyone else face this problem? What should I do?
Anon
Id say hold off on jumping to conclusions too fast – I am not a minority and get rejected on airbnb all the time. Maybe because of places (people are lazy and dont update availability on their listed places). Are these the sort of places with 100 plus reviews or 1-10? The latter are flaky.
That is also not to minimize your feelings – if you think thats whats happening go with your gut and get angry! But I’ve definitely found that level of responses before.
Anonymous
DH had an idea that we could be AirBNB hosts. I don’t think that I could keep up with it unless I did it FT (in which case, where would I live?). But many hosts host on AirBNB, VRBO, etc. and I am not sure how they keep up with it all (in which case, I think we know: poorly).
I wouldn’t assume that your ethnicity is why you’re rejected (DC has a fairly large SE Asian community and in DC proper, as well as a large non-white population). More likely that the host isn’t updating their calendar for “taken” weeks. These people are amateurs and only a few are true professionals (we know of some who have a rental as solely an AirBNB property and are very vigilant about showing availability, but that’s the exception).
Most hosts are also completely uninsured for short-term rental liability and who knows what they do with taxes / local licenses?
CountC
*Disclaimer – I am white.
Do you ever reach out to the host before you try to book? I always ask at least one question in a super friendly manner to try to make a connection, but even still I have been rejected because of dates being booked but not showing on both AirBnB and VRBO. I would guess that is even more of a problem in a hot market like DC during a heavy traveling time like the summer.
Either way, I am sorry you and your husband are having so much trouble and, like the post above said, I’m not trying to minimize your feelings in any way!
Emmer
I’m not a person of color, so I cannot relate firsthand. But I am very sorry that this happened to you. I don’t know what neighborhoods you’ve been looking into, but perhaps you might have better luck looking in some of the more diverse areas where (hopefully!) the owners would be less likely to be racist. Columbia Heights, Mount Pleasant, and southern Petworth (near the metro) are all diverse and metro- and bus- accessible to the rest of the city.
You might also want to report your experience to AirBnB – they know that this is an issue for them and I would hope they would go out of their way to make it up to you.
Ru
I usually message a dozen places to get a booking – and my profile picture shows me wearing hijab (I am South Asian as well). I usually find something – I’d say I get 30% preapprovals, 30% rejections, and 30% no response.
Jules
I heard the NPR story, this sucks and I’m sorry you’re dealing with it. You might try VRBO dot com, you don’t have to put up a profile pic or anything. And unlike Airbnb, most of the rentals are for the whole house/apartment, not for shares with the host, so you don’t have to weed those out.
Good luck!
Meg Murry
Yes, I also heard the NPR story and thought it was interesting but frustrating.
My friend runs rental properties (in a different city, not DC) through VRBO, and she said at least in her market, VRBO is mostly people who are doing property management and rentals as a real business and are more professional, whereas a lot of people on AirBnB do it as more of a side gig. So I’d definitely recommend checking out VRBO as well.
It’s possible the dates really were booked but hadn’t been updated yet on AirBnB as well. I believe that NPR story mentioned having more success using InstantBook – have you tried that option? The other sad-but-true option is to do what they did on NPR and temporarily change your photo to a landscape or flower or similar, but I hate that I even have to suggest that.
Nancy Raygun
Black lady here: As you may have already experienced, sometimes people are dicks because of your ethnicity. Sometimes they’re dicks without knowing it and sometimes they really are thinking “South Asian, no thanks.” That’s terrible and you can’t control that. You’re not crazy for wondering. It’s really easy to start feeling bad about situations where you’re being discriminated against, but without being able to call an AirBnB host and demand answers (which I doubt they’d even give you), you just have to wonder for a second and move on. The most I’d do is shoot a message to the host to ask a random question about the place just to touch base. It’s probably good advice for anyone trying to get a response. I’d love an empirical study that bears out my suspicion that hosts do discriminate, but it won’t make me feel any better.
Some of the best advice I ever got about dealing with kind of thing was from Nikki Giovanni who said “Stop spending so much energy worrying about who doesn’t love you.” It sucks if you’re being kept from places where you want to stay. I am sorry and I have experience with that. Keep your head up and keep looking.
Anonymous
My profile picture is of me hiking with a toque on and facing away from the camera- so you can’t see my ethnicity. And I have probably 8-10 positive reviews from previous stays under my belt.
My name isn’t notably ethnic and English is my first language, so while I’m not white, the hosts can’t really figure that out until I arrive.
So, maybe this is a problem, but I’ve bypassed it.
Anonymous
Look for places that look like mostly full time rentals vs houses that people move out of for an occasional weekend to get a little extra cash. In the latter, it can get a little dicey. I had a bad experience with a woman making up a bunch of lies and trying to foist us into somewhere else because it turned out that her bf had dumped her and messed up where she was going to stay, but she still wanted the money. Had to get airbnb involved. It was pretty weird for a while, because she and my bf were from different cultural backgrounds that traditionally hate each other.
OP
Thanks everyone for the responses. I did send an initial message each time introducing myself and giving a bit of background, and then asking a few specific and short questions. No replies back.
We couldn’t find anything on VBRO that we liked so we just booked at a hotel. Good point on Air bnb hosts being amateurs renting their own home (as opposed to property managers). I do like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but being rejected 5 times just seemed odd.
And DH didn’t have his profile pic up, just a picture of a lake. But he had his name up there and our ethnicity is very evident by looking at our names.
Oh well.
Anonymous
Thinking of the people I know who put their places on AirBnB, I think there’s a high probability they’re just flaky and/or it’s not really available. The ones I know who do it are people who live in high cost of living cities and just need the extra money, so even if it says their place is “available,” it’s really only available if they can find somewhere else to crash for the weekend, which doesn’t always pan out.
Anonymous
I’m South Asian and it’s reflected in my name and profile picture. I’ve booked on AirBnB twice and HomeAway once without any issues. But recently, a girlfriend (who is black) and I were planning a road trip and she was the one booking. She got rejected three times before we were finally able to land a place. This was for Chicago.
Calling All Angelenos and Party Planners!
Hi Hive! I would like to draw upon the collective wisdom of the hive please!
I am planning my partner’s 30th birthday weekend in mid August. He is going to have about 20 family members and friends (ranging in age from 9-75!) from all over flying into LA (where he lives). I live in Texas and am doing all the planning from here and am not super familiar with LA. Here are my questions – I’d be grateful for any and all advice! He wants to charter a boat and spend an afternoon on the water. Other than that he has given me no other guidance.We are also renting a house for about 15 of the people coming in.
– Biggest one: Chartering the boat? Has anyone done this? Where do I start? What’s a reasonable price for 20-30 people for a few hours? WHERES UBER YACHT WHEN YOU NEED IT? (tm Ellen Caps)
– Will probably use Airbnb or VRBO to find a house, favorite neighborhoods? Other websites I should look into?
– Favorite 30th birthday activities?
– Tips on party planning for this number of folks?
– Favorite LA bakery/restaurants for purchasing large quantities of food? We’ll probably carry out due to the size of the group.
– ANY other tips!
Heeeelp! Thanks all and happy Almost-Friday! :)
ITDS
If a party planner responds to this I think you should HIRE THEM. I know this isn’t helpful, but how did you get stuck planning a birthday party on the scale of a wedding when you don’t even live in LA? It sounds like there are going to be a million moving parts and tons of stress of trying to keep 20+ people happy – Outsource it!
MJ
I am from the South Bay (of LA). There are marinas in Redondo Beach (called King Harbor), Long Beach, San Pedro and Marina del Rey. Marina del Rey is closer to Santa Monica and more hip parts of town like Venice. Hotels will be pricier there than in the South Bay. That should help with boat planning. I would just google charter and those cities. You will likely not want to stay in LA proper due to costs, but some cities to consider include Marina del Rey, El Segundo (can be mixed–check!), Manhattan Beach, Hermosa Beach, Redondo Beach, Los Alamitos, Long Beach (near the beach!), Huntington Beach (OC!), Seal Beach (OC!) or Torrance (very slightly inland from Redondo, Hermosa). Helpfully, the South Bay is also close to LAX (airport) and Long Beach (JetBlue/Southwest smaller airport) so it might be good to stay in the South Bay.
A great LA bakery/catering choice in the South Bay would be Guiliano’s (they are multi-gen family owned DELISH place with great platters). The closest one to King Harbor is the North Redondo one at 1700 Aviation Blvd.
If you decide to charter out of San Pedro or Long Beach, I highly recommend Katella Deli, also an institution.
http://katellabakery.com/restaurant.html San Pedro also has an on-site fish market where you can eat there and it’s super-fun.
A fun multi-gen activity might be to go to the La Brea Tar Pits or some of the museums on museum mile. Long Beach also has a lot of cool activities, and lots of people like the Naples area of Long Beach for walking around and shopping (also close to boats). Long Beach has a newish aquarium that I’ve heard good reviews about.
Going to have lunch or walk around or rent a cabana at the pool at Terranea in Rancho Palos Verdes is a very popular activity. PV is cliffy and really stunning. You could also do a picnic at any of the public parks along the cliffs. I would not do the public parks if there are any toddlers–it is dangerous–these are real cliffs that people die on. A drive around the Palos Verdes peninsula would be really nice too–just follow PV Drive South and PV Drive West.
Others can chime in for more “LA proper” venues. I would also look at Sunset Magazine for suggestions on where to go and what to do.
Enjoy!
Calling All Angelenos and Party Planners!
This is ENORMOUSLY helpful! Thank you so much, MJ! Would you like to earn a little extra money as a party planner? haha, jk.
Ha – good point, ITDS! I guess I am gunning for gf of the year.
CountC
I just thought of you all . . . I received an email from a customer’s rep wherein he refers to one of his colleagues as Mrs. _______________. They are both young and she is recently married.
Anonymous
Is it possible that the bride was all Bride Bride Bride for the past 18 months or whatever and then how do you rein that in and be all “oops — forget all that you’ve been absorbing from me and it’s just Ms at work.”
Not defending, but so many people are so obessed with Bride As Lifestyle that maybe it is a total shock that it doesn’t carryover elsewhere.
Anonymous
Or that she wants to be known as Mrs. and he knows that.
CountC
My comment was less of a judgment on him and more of a wow I hadn’t noticed this really until we started discussing it here and look (!) someone used it.
Any of the scenarios you all have mentioned could be possible for sure! It didn’t bother me, just made me think of Corpor e t t e. :)
brokentoe
I’ve been following the related comments on this issue for the last couple of days. I am really shocked that this is still such a thing – I’m 55 and my first real job out of undergrad (in the criminal justice system, so it makes some sense) made an explicit point of not wanting to give our clients information about our marital status so I was always Ms. Brokentoe. I was married at the time, had adopted my husband’s surname and didn’t give it any more thought. As time went on and up until today, I always use Ms., telling people that Mrs. Brokentoe is my MIL.
It has always been a pet peeve of mine when charities and other institutions that I support (e.g., universities both my husband and I graduated from) send letters or solicitations to Mr. and Mrs. John Brokentoe or even worse, just to my DH – even when I’m the one who gives them the $$. I’ve been know to write snotty letters in return, refusing to further contribute since they clearly aren’t paying attention to the name of the person writing the check.
Anon
Has anyone noticed that hte NY Times refers to Hillary as “Mrs. Clinton”? I guess it must be their standard style but it still irks me. Ms. for everyone in a professional context!
Azalyas
I have and it irks me. I do wonder though if she has indicated that this is her preference though.
Anonymous
Yes! It really annoys me and also confuses me because AP Style says not to use courtesy titles like Ms or Mrs unless you have to in order to distinguish someone with the same last name. So she should just be referred to as “Clinton” after the first use of her full name and even “Ms.” should only be used if they have to separate her from Bill. Even then I would think it should be “Secretary Clinton” vs “President Clinton” (at least until January!). So I think it’s wrong on many levels.
Anna
Yes, I read an article there recently that said that she requested to be called Mrs. Clinton, so it was definitelyher decision, not their standard style.
Anonymama
This is actually New York Times style, different from AP style. They also do it with, for example, Senators (referring to Mr. Murphy in subsequent mentions, not Murphy or Senator Murphy). I believe they default to Ms unless someone requests otherwise.
ANP
I need hiring advice. I live in a low-density area of the country and work in a fairly specialized area, so recruitment can pose a challenge — and right now, in my field and geographic area, it’s a job-hunter’s market! Tons of openings and not much talent that’s willing to jump.
I’ve had a position posted for 60+ days and have found a fabulous person (lets call her Anne), referred through a mutual friend. She’s young in her career but we hit it off right away on the phone and even though my open position is probably a little above her head, I would be very willing to work with her. She ended our call excited to dust off her resume…only to email me the next morning that the job probably isn’t for her and thanking me for my time.
Our mutual friend told me that Anne is concerned that the job is a reach beyond her skillset — and a couple of other concerns about not being able to gauge our workplace culture, and worrying that she does not bring as much to the table as our current team does. My original plan was to bring Anne in for an interview and let her talk (freely, w/o me being present) with members of my team, other colleagues, my boss, etc. to gauge the culture for herself…and the truth is that she has an outstanding background that fills major gaps for us!
In truth, I would be willing to modify the job for Anne — still giving her the chance to grow, but tweaking the description a little so that it’s within her comfort zone. It’s a long story, but there are some other staff moves on the horizon that will make this possible. Anne has agreed to talk to me on the phone tomorrow and I feel like I have one last shot. How do I tell her “Hey, I think you’re great, and I’m willing to modify this job in a way that works for both of us because I think you’d be a huge asset to our team” without coming off as desperate? I also sense that she has somewhat of a confidence crisis based on what our mutual friend has told me about her current (challenging) workplace situation. I would love for this young woman to at least come check us out — because I think she’s terrific, and I know she could bloom in my organization — so any tips on how to make that happen would be appreciated.
Anonymous
I’d start with what you put in quotes and explain that she fills gaps on your team, you’re looking long term and are willing to work with her to grow, and you would like to give her a chance to get to know your workplace a bit by coming in to meet with people before deciding. I wouldn’t mention that people are leaving soon but perhaps say there’s a surplus of talent in some areas so we can shuffle some job duties.
techgirl
Can you adapt to a junior role in the interim? Or do a designate period of an appropriate length before moving them into the full role?
I think honesty will work well, and advising that your requirements are flexible – even with examples of other people who have gone through a similar process.
kc esq
Can you say that you’ve had the job posted for a while and haven’t found anyone who ticks all the boxes, so you’re ready to tweak the boxes for someone like her with a lot of upside? That way she gets the message, but it’s not like you’re doing her a huge favor. If it’s not her, it will be someone else who gets the leeway.
Anonymous
Honestly, I think the mutual friend is probably trying to be polite and Anne realized after talking to you that she isn’t all that interested in the job anymore. I really doubt she had a sudden crisis of confidence. Maybe she didn’t think you guys clicked as well as you thought you did, or maybe she looked up your organization later and saw something she didn’t like. Who knows. I’m not a big believer in chasing people who don’t want you, be it in relationships or in jobs.
Jules
This is possible, but given all the discussion on here about imposter syndrome and women being reluctant to apply for jobs if they don’t meet every possible qualification, I wouldn’t discount the crisis-of-confidence theory. What do you have to lose by reaching out to her?
bridget
You can also speak to her from the perspective of a person who does hiring. Often, young people aren’t aware of how or why companies make various hiring decisions, or they can extrapolate from one company to all of corporate America.
Not all hiring criteria are equal, and you can tell her that her strengths and capabilities are in the “need” category for this job, and other requirements listed in the position are “nice to haves.”
Depending on her personality, you could also go with straight-up blunt: “Anne, we wouldn’t be having this conversation if I did not think you could do this job. Wouldn’t waste my time; wouldn’t waste your time.”
Meg Murry
Did she not have the actual job description until after your call? I’ve been Anne before – I worked with my now boss’s boss years ago, and when he was looking to hire a new employee he found my resume online and contacted me. After that conversation and then a phone interview with the hiring manager, they invited me in for an in person interview – and only then did I get the actual job description. And I felt like I was completely unqualified and freaked out. The bosses, however, didn’t, and were perfectly happy that I only met 60-80% of the qualifications.
Could you let Anne know that? Alternately, could you ask her if she would be interested in a slightly junior position? Perhaps you could get approval to hire someone one step down? Maybe she has been burned by being hired for a job where she was then thrown in the deep end?
Anon
She would probably be embarrassed if she knew this conversation got back to you. Just say you thibk she is great and would be a very good fit for the job, and you would hate to lose put on the chance to let her get to know more about the position and the company. Tell stories about people who have joined the company with similar backgrounds to her and succeeded. Ask if she has any questions or concerns and let her bring it up if she feels underqualified.
advice?
What are your strategies for putting up with habits you don’t like in in-laws? While I really like the people themselves, a number of my SO’s family members smoke quite a bit, which I find very unenjoyable to be around, and unavoidable given that they do it inside and around non-smoking family members.
I’ve never said anything to him, but I know it’s important to him that I participate fully in family events and trips where it’s likely that this will be the norm – as opposed to either individually opting out or meeting for dinners in a middle ground location where that would be less likely to happen. I have a tough time picturing how I can sustain this for a long time, given how much the smell bothers me (and I foresee that at some point I may be pregnant or have a child I don’t want to be around this for health reasons and doubt that would go over well).
I think my emotions are more confused by the fact that prior to meeting his family, I never knew anyone who smoked, and he and I have never discussed this before so I may be overthinking the risks or overly judgmental. This hasn’t shifted my feelings towards him or his family, just my desire to spend long trips with them and I don’t know how to move past it!
Jen
Talk to your SO. That’s the first step.
ITDS
This. DH’s family has certain bizarre habits. They are often late for things. They can be unnecessarily and embarrassingly cheap. Etc. However, DH and I agreed that these things are weird, so we can either ignore or joke about them. It’s not a situation where I’m gritting my teeth alone. Smoking indoors takes it to a whole other level, but the first step it to let DH know it bothers you (and why), and see what he says about it.
Anonymous
Oh hell no. Who smokes inside? Tell him you’re not comfortable with it and that you won’t be spending time inside with people smoking. Right now you’re making all kinds of assumptions about what he expects and how he will react without giving him the chance to communicate. That just doesn’t work.
Wildkitten
People who smoke often smoke inside their own homes. Adults can choose to do that in their own homes in their own lives if they want.
Anonymous
I read this as smoking inside other people’s homes and on vacation. Inside their own home, yeah, you don’t have a say. Inside your home, you absolutely do.
Anonymous
And thankfully, adults who are living in 2016 (or really, any year past 1990) can choose to refuse to enter those homes. Sadly, children don’t get that same choice, which is why it’s so appalling that so many smokers do it in homes with children.
I grew up with a parent who smoked inside the home for about 4 years before we moved into a new home, where the other parent put a stop to it. I’m now in my early 30s and an endurance runner (i.e., should have more lung strength and better cardio health than the average person, all else equal) and yet my lung function tests put me at a “lung age” of 67 because of those years of secondhand smoke exposure (I’ve never touched a cigarette myself and I avoid it even in outdoor settings, so that’s where it came from.) I have to use an inhaler and struggle to breathe outdoors in my city that has many orange air quality days. Oh, and I’ve already buried that parent due to lung cancer. OP, you’re not overthinking the risks.
Elysian
How do I get my “lung age”? I stopped going home during college became my mom wouldn’t stop smoking. She also smoked inside, and even inside the car with the windows rolled up, my entire life. From the point where I was cognizant that it was bad I was asking her to stop and she kept saying no. I would be really interested in finding out what 18 years of 3 packs a day did to me.
Anonymous
My test was done at my allergist’s office, who also treats asthma. Insurance covered it in full (I just had to pay the doctor visit copay), and the test essentially amounted to a few cycles of breathe normal–huge deep breath–breath out as hard as I can.
Gail the Goldfish
Elysian-test is called spirometry (or pulmonary function test, which measures more things beyond basic spirometry).
Rosie
Who smokes inside? People who smoke. Who judges what people do in their houses?
Anonymous
People who are expected to go inside those houses, that’s who judges.
Wildkitten
…so don’t….
Anon
People who have asthma, or are concerned about their future children. Studies have come out recently that suggest that secondhand exposure can even affect children in the womb or children who have not even been conceived yet (!), even if the exposure is pretty minimal.
I totally believe that those folks have every right to chain smoke in their house. But that doesn’t mean I want to smell like an ashtray or pose risks to my children or unborn children.
JTX
Links to these studies? I would be interested in reading these. Thanks.
Anonymous
Me
rosie
Overthinking the risks? You’re talking about being inside for extended periods of time with people smoking around you, right? I think you would be totally reasonable in meeting in a place that is non-smoking indoors or holding gatherings outside when possible. Talk to your SO.
Anonymous
This. You (and your future children) should not be inside a building where people smoke indoors, ever, for any length of time. Meet on neutral ground where the smokers have to smoke outside. Sure, adults have the right to smoke in their own homes, but they do not have the right to demand that their families be exposed to secondhand smoke and toxic residue.
Wildkitten
Talk to SO. Can you meet with these folks on restaurant patios instead of inside their smoky homes?
Anon for this
Talk to your SO and come up with strategies/compromise, however, make it clear that in certain scenarios (pregnant or kids around, perhaps) you will not compromise.
I have a group of relatives that drink in excess. They talk about how their DUI’s are bs and promote a culture of alcoholism. I strongly suspect alcohol was a factor in more than one nearly life ending “accidents”. They’re a super fun bunch of people and their stories are hilarious, so I think I have become numb to this extremely dangerous culture and subliminally give it a pass.
DH comes from a background where alcohol was pretty much never around and cringes at being around this group of family members. Our compromise is that he needs to attend weddings/funerals/occasional major holidays and more or less bite his tongue. However, he has 100% go ahead to take away the keys and/or call the authorities if he perceives someone is about to drink and drive or participate in dangerous behavior that will affect more than their own personal well being.
This is likely to continue as a discussion point as our kid gets older and I will likely attend more of these occasions on my own or we’ll just ghost out entirely at some point.
Faye
Yes yes. Do not compromise on your safety, and certainly don’t compromise on young children’s safety. Because smoking and drinking to excess are issues of safety.
Anon, you say you have kid(s). Be very careful about what you’re communicating is “acceptable” even at a young age. My family has a group with similar alcohol problems, and we’re working through issues in teens who were around that “culture of alcoholism” even only on occasion. My DH was the one who pointed out to ME that this wasn’t okay, and I had to adjust my own views on normal after I talked with him. Especially when you say things like “they’re super fun and their stories are hilarious” – that exact attitude makes a big impression on middle school aged kids.
Biting his tongue in the moment is fine, but hopefully you then have discussions on the way home, even with a small child, about how falling down isn’t funny. Or driving over a curb into a yard isn’t hysterical. Or a family get-together ending in tears and yelling and drunken slurring isn’t normal.
Anon for this
I’m 100% on board with what you are saying down to your DH pointing out the behavior. My hunch is that DH we will not allow our kids to be around this portion of my family and I agree that is the correct decision. Fortunately the primary culprits are my extended family and not my parents/siblings and everyone lives a solid two hour drive away.
Blonde Lawyer
It’s amazing how different you feel after not being around it. I grew up with aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents that smoked. I had sleepovers at houses where parents smoked inside. When I developed allergies, my dad said extended family couldn’t smoke in our house. We would still go to their house and they usually went outside to smoke while I was there but my allergies would still act up at times. In college, I waitressed at restaurants and bars that had indoor smoking. I hung out in bars with indoor smoking. It didn’t bother me much. Then 10-15 years went by where it was illegal to smoke indoors and I was never around it because I don’t smoke and moved far away from the smoking family members. Now, on the rare occasions that I go into someone’s home who smokes, I can’t stand it. I have a visceral physical reaction to it and I feel sick. I get a headache, I get sick to my stomach.
10 years ago I would have said it’s a couple hours/month, suck it up. Now I totally get it and really sympathize but I don’t know what the answer is.
Anonymous
I have asthma and I will not be around smokers. Period. Full stop. There is no smoking in my home. If my in-laws smoked in their own home, I would not go to their home or be around them when they are smoking. This isn’t an “annoying habit,” it’s a health issue, and not just when you’re preggo. I would meet my in-laws for dinner and things like that, and welcome them into my home if they didn’t smoke while at my house but I would not expose myself to secondhand smoke just because they’re my husband’s family.
lawsuited
My maternal grandmother smokes. As kids, we went to her home very seldom (maybe once a year?) and played outside if our she started smoking. We went to her house less and less as we got older and “playing outside” stopped being a thing. Our mother did not allow my grandmother to smoke when she visited us at our house, so she didn’t come over very often. For the most part, we met her at restaurants, parks, etc., but those visits became shorter once restaurants started banning smoking and she had to leave when she started craving a cigarette.
All that to say, it’s fine for you to set boundaries with relatives who smoke, particularly when you have children. Smoking is less common now than it was, so I think smokers are already used to having to adjust their behaviour to accommodate the habit. Sadly, for relatives who smoke, their decision to smoke becomes a decision to have a pretty limited relationship with their grandchildren (or nieces and nephews, or whatever) and other family members who don’t smoke.
Meg Murry
You have gotten lots of good advice here OP, but unfortunately, this can be a really divisive issue. My father’s side of the family had a major falling out that all began with a parent of a child with asthma requesting that no one smoke indoors at a family party (hosted by a former smoker who typically allowed it in her house). From there, it escalated into an argument between 2 of my aunts (both of whom had married into the family), and it resulted in more than 5 years of bitter fighting and people taking sides and lots of “is s/he going to be there? Because I’ll only come if s/he isn’t”. It broke my poor grandmother’s heart to no longer have family holidays with all 4 of her children and their families, and it wasn’t until she was in hospice that there was a shaky truce, and now that she’s gone and many of the family members have moved it never really came back together. It makes me really sad that my kids never really got to know one of my aunts and uncles, but I’m not willing to expose them to second hand smoke over it, and they were rarely willing to visit us.
Unfortunately, this isn’t an easy issue – but you aren’t overreacting by not wanting to take extended trips with smokers or stay in their homes. You definitely need to talk to your SO, but you aren’t being unreasonable by not being willing to just put up with it and keep quiet.
Jen
Any tips on cutting someone out of your life? My good friend came to me yesterday with an issue with an ex, and my advice is to just move on/block him from her life entirely. I’ve never done this myself so I’m looking for practical tips. Can one block a number on a cell, for example? She needs to not be able to see/read his texts. Same with facebook- is there a step beyond “defriending” i can suggest? Any other pro tips?
This guy is just bad news for her and can push all her buttons with a single text…despite her being about to get married. Not really looking for advice for her per se, but from my viewpoint the only thing to do is move on and close the book. They are like, 900 miles apart and this just became an issue (again).
Wildkitten
You can block folks on your phone. iPhones make it really easy, and you can ask your cell provider if you need something even more intense. You can block someone on facebook – google it. I’m a big fan/propoent of blocking people like that!
Anonny
Say what? He has that influence over her and she’s about to get married? I’d start there. (yes, you can block numbers, email addresses, FB accounts, etc, etc… today’s technology actually makes it quite easy.)
Anonymous
Most phones have an option to add number to blocked list in the options by a number or in settings.
Facebook blocking means absolutely no communications get through. It also deletes past communications, though, or it used to do so, as an FYI.
If he emails her, you can block that as well.
All are generally easy to do.
CountC
As has already been mentioned, yes, you can block people’s cell phone numbers so that you do not see their attempts at communication. If she has an iPhone, go to his contact information, scroll down, and click “Block This Contact.” On FB, I think you have to go either into privacy or the friend area, but yes, you can block people even if they are not your friends. I have done it. You can also block people on Instagram, but if they do not block you then you can still see whatever they make public. For email, if she has Gmail, what I have done in the past is route all emails from the person’s email address directly to trash so that you never see them.
It is pretty concerning that she is about to get married, but has not yet done anything to block this person who appears to have considerable influence over her.
Blonde Lawyer
If she’s worried about reaching out to him, I helped a friend devise a plan to block all contact. If you block him, his number is still stored in settings and she might lose willpower and reach out some day. My friend didn’t know the guys number by heart so she wrote out 10 different versions of the number (moving around digits) shuffled them, and then put all of those into the block list so she didn’t know which one was really his. Now, he can’t get through and she can’t break down and contact him either.
Anonymous
This is genius
Anony
HA! Blonde Lawyer where were you 5 year ago when I was dealing with a heart wrenching breakup?
Jen
Thanks, all. I should add that she’s going to therapy (she doesn’t go regularly but scheduled an spot for tmw). I think it’s pre wedding stress + someone that has always been trouble + likely hiccups in her current relationship. All that she can work out with a pro; I’m just trying to offer tactical support :-).
Rosie
Public Service Announcement: when you are a young female lawyer who is meeting an experienced attorney who will be your witness in a serious criminal case, don’t wear a sundress and plastic platform heel and DON’T order a Margarita. And, maybe, you might want to prepare your planned direct, too.
Wildkitten
Were you meeting at a Mexican restaurant?
Rosie
Ha! No. And this young woman is already a little ditzy so tequila doesn’t help.
Wildkitten
Ok. I’m a passionate white wine at networking drinker, and I would totally order a margarita instead of the meeting were in a mexican restaurant.
Anonymous
What does the fact that she’s female have to do with it? Would the same judgment be applied to a young male lawyer who ordered a drink at the meeting and wore something like seersucker pants and a pastel polo?
Rosie
Do men read this blog? Oh, well, PSA: if you are a young male lawyer, don’t wear shorts and boat shoes to a business meeting, come prepared, and don’t order tequila because you will look like an idiot who doesn’t take his job seriously at all.
Anonymous
If I were that attorney, I’d seriously reconsider ever hiring you as an expert because you’re the one that seems to lack any intellectual depth.
You’re completely missing the point that it’s not whether young men read this blog. It’s that you are holding this attorney to a much higher standard, and applying a presumption of incompetence, because she happens to be a young female. No man would face that same judgment–he could show up in boat shoes and beer breath, and his business partners wouldn’t bat an eye. They’d just talk about how Tommy does great work.
My reaction to your post might’ve been different if you’d lead with the fact that she hadn’t prepared for the meeting and left the snark about her outfit out of it or as a minor aside.
Feminist
I don’t really think dress appropriately and act appropriately is a “much higher standard” for females than for males.
Rosie
Nope. This blog is for women and by women and it has always been about appropriate dress. Perhaps you wear picnic dresses and drink too much so you are taking offense? If you are, you should know that I am not the expert but another lawyer on the case and am completely unimpressed with her. I will probably mention it to management. I also find your assumptions about how I view men to be unwarranted. She was unprepared – if that were the only issue I would chalk it up to inexperience but the other behavior tells me she is clueless. You do you, anonymous, but if it involves this kind of behavior, you may not go very far.
Rosie
Feminist: you are completely right! It is easy to find standards for appropriate business wear for men and women. Men wear real shoes and ties unless they don’t take their jobs seriously. And, yes, I had an issue with a male investigator who worked for our office and came to court in black sneakers.
brokentoe
I think you’re the one who is out of line. This is a fashion blog, so comments on inappropriate clothing choices in professional settings are not off base. There are a lot of young professionals who read this blog looking for do’s and don’t’s in the business world. And Rosie was giving a little tongue-in-cheek advice, as a seasoned professional, about what not to do to be taken seriously. Lighten up.
hoola hoopa
+1 to Feminist
Anonymous
LOL at anyone thinking this is an actual fashion blog. The picks are horrendously out of style, and most of the “what are you wearing” or “what would you wear to this” comments describe outfits that are so frumpy it’s comedic. It’s a community of professional women that happened to form around a bad fashion blogger, not a true fashion blog.
Anonymous
Rosie, there you go again showing your lack of depth. Your default defense is an ad hominem attack that I must be defensive because I dress and behave inappropriately–not that it’s any of your business, but I wear sheaths every day and don’t drink. I’m a partner with an HYS degree. I think I’m doing just fine, but thanks for your super sweet concern.
Oh, and since you want to play at this level, only toddlers go by “Rosie.” Do you show up to meetings and introduce yourself as that?
Anonymous
Erm, attacking someone’s internet name is weird, but also, people can’t help what their names are. Saying a particular name is unprofessional is as stupid as the debate a few years back about whether a water bottle was professional. It’s the person’s name. It’s a bottle holding water. Neither have any bearing on professionalism.
And full disclosure, my mother’s name is Rosie and she is a professional woman who I have to assume showed up at meetings and introduced herself as that.
Anonymous
Yeahhhhh, that was exactly the point–that Rosie’s defense of “you must be a slosh” was about as mature and intelligent as attacking someone’s internet name. Seriously, it’s like talking to a brick wall.
Your second paragraph is not exactly a strong argument considering that it was the norm for women in the Boomer and older generation to go by diminutives. Times change.
Rosie
And honestly, I can’t remember the last time I saw a young male lawyer dressed inappropriately. But, just in case!
Anonymous
OMG. What jurisdiction. Dying of laughter here!
I’ve noticed that interns and very recent hires seem to have much more casual approaches to “appropriate office attire” than I did in their position just a few years ago. My office is a place where you could end up going to court any minute. When I was an intern I posted on This Site asking if flats were ok for court. I didn’t start pushing dress boundaries until I was both pregnant and fairly well established here. Meanwhile, the intern sitting in front of my office right now is wearing something I would only call “sandals.” And this applies to males as well – a friend recently had to have a chat with a male intern about wearing a tie.
I never thought I would be all “kids these days” but here I am.
Rosie
I confess that my pregnant clothes were not exactly professional on most days! But I did splurge on two maternity suits.
Anonny
Say what? He has that influence over her and she’s about to get married? I’d start there. (yes, you can block numbers, email addresses, FB accounts, etc, etc… today’s technology actually makes it quite easy.)
Anonny
ugh wrong place
:(
Within the same week, I have just found out that an (in)subordinate of mine accepted and all but covered up a presentation opportunity that is far more appropriate for me to give, and that my brother very purposefully left me off of the joint family fathers’ day gift communications/plan. Sad. :(
ITDS
Were you asked to give the presentation, and s/he somehow intercepted the invitation and took the opportunity away, or was s/he asked outright to do the presentation? If asked outright, your attitude does not demonstrate much interest in helping subordinates along in their careers. S/he probably detected that and thus kept it quiet.
Anon
This. Hopefully it wasn’t this. I am asked to do presentations frequently, and my colleague who is just very slightly senior to me likes to swoop in and take them away, even though we have essentially the same job description and we both do presentations. Whether their perception is real/perceived, it sounds like a communication issue.
Anon in NYC
Hugs. Both of those things suck.
Anonymous
Anyone else struggling with social/”other people” burnout this summer? Venting: I have a major golf fundraiser all day tomorrow, then a wedding all day Saturday (ceremony in morning, reception in evening), then a housewarming party for family that has now turned into TWO parties on the same day – lunch AND dinner – because my DH’s family can’t come for lunch even though that’s what we originally planned for, and then back to work on Monday. This is all coming after 2 months of various contractors working on things in our new home, and my in-laws staying with us basically since we moved (they’re heading back to their home in another country at the end of July).
I’m tired and stressed and don’t feel like I can be angry in my own home. Any tips to cope through and take it slowly so I don’t explode?
Wildkitten
You are absolutely allowed to be angry anywhere, and especially in your own home! To avoid social burnout I have to schedule “off” days so that every day isn’t on. (On social days I tend to have drinks, on off days I go to the gym.)
Anonymous
Thanks for your nice comment! I like the idea of alternating on and off days. Good idea for the upcoming weeks of summer.
Bonnie
That sounds like a lot. Don’t feel like you have to spend all your free time with the in-laws. Let your SO take them out for a day trip or book yourself a spa treatment. Having even a few hours of quiet time can work wonders.
Anonymous
Thanks for the suggestion – I often underestimate the power of a few hours of quiet time.
CountC
I cope by saying no.
Anonymous
Saying no is such a relief. These events are already scheduled, so good advice for the future.
CountC
It took me a long time to be completely okay with saying no and even accepting and then politely bowing out (when it wouldn’t cause the host to be incredibly inconvenienced). Luckily, my friends understand and do it themselves when needed. Once you get in the habit of it, it’s much easier!
Walnut
It’s definitely not too late to say no to a housewarming party. You’re probably coming down with something. It’s probably a 24hr stomach bug. Your SO can represent both of you.
Anonymous
Yup. “Oh, you can’t come for dinner? No. Lunch doesn’t work. See you another time”.
Lobbyist
Can you take Friday off work and spend it alone?
Anonymous
That’s a great idea! Next Friday, my DH’s cousins (husband, wife, 2-year old son) will be arriving in the evening and I had already planned to take the day off to prepare and get a workout in, but now I think I’ll just spend it alone to de-compress before more people arrive. Thanks for the suggestion!
Clerky
Can we talk about how inspiring the filibuster was yesterday? I turned on C-span for the first time in my life and had to really pull myself away to go to bed. G-d bless these senators for doing something, for once.
filibusterific
Yes! I was so excited about it and tried to watch as much as I could. It felt like finally something was happening after years of gridlock.
I still don’t totally understand the outcome, though. So it just forced the possibility of a GOP vote on some gun control amendments?
CPA Lady
Agree 100%. I wrote an email to Senator Murphy today to thank him.
https://www.murphy.senate.gov/contact
If anyone else would like to do so.
I hate feeling hopeless and this epidemic of massacres makes me feel that way. People like Chris Murphy give me hope. I wrote to my senators today too, though I seriously doubt they care what I have to say, since I’m in a solidly red state.
Amanda
Thanks for posting this – I sent him a message as well.
Beans
Yes. Was so thrilled this happened. Wrote emails to both of my Senators (who are in the NRA’s pocket and obnoxious) but I wanted them to know that not everyone in our bleeding red state supports their nonsense gun policies.
Carrie M
Yes! I watched for about 5 hours last night (in the background while I did other things). It made me miss my time as a senate staffer. Some of the colloquies were really good. Loved that they kept it substantive and focused on this one important topic the whole time.
JLK
As someone who grew up in CT (not far from Dandy Hook) and NJ, it made me really happy!
Anonny
Super inspiring! As a non-American I was in awe. I have never seen such passion out of American politics before, especially for such an altruistic cause.
Anon
Too bad the majority of those participating are so uneducated about our current firearms laws and firearms themselves, any laws that come out of it will probably be nonsensical. Sen. Reid actually got down on the floor and claims anyone could go down to your local gun show and pick up a fully automatic weapon, no problem. Unbelievable, for a lawmaker that supposed to…I don’t know…know about laws? To say something like that.
Wildkitten
On my list of the world’s problems, a wife-beater who has been investigated by the FBI for possible terrorism picking up an AR-15 and killing 50 kids while injuring 50 more is much higher on the list than Senator Reid mis-speaking one syllable. YMMV.
Anonymous
Oh, I don’t know. The difference between the concept of “illegal” and “legal” is only one syllable.
It’s not unreasonable to expect lawmakers to have their facts straight first. To do otherwise only complicates a conversation that this country is far overdue to have.
Anon
Mis-speaking one syllable? You have to be kidding. When a Senator doesn’t even understand the laws he is trying to change, you’ve got a problem.
If they cleaned up their watch list and, I don’t know, indicted the wife-beater, he’d have been prohibited from owning firearms. Even the ACLU is against using the watch list in the way you are suggesting without a mechanism for due process.
The only way to solve a problem is to understand what actually IS a problem, what is a made-up problem. When you’re standing on the senate floor making stuff up, you don’t have much hope to solve real problems.
Wildkitten
Two-syllables. Good catch.
Really?
I work in business development. A huge part of my job is meeting with potential clients to evaluate the relationship and if we want to work with them, close the deal. Today as I was discussing business with one such potential client, I was asked out on a date, which oops, I mistook for a business dinner. Really? I’m annoyed because 1) this could’ve been a great business relationship opportunity 2) this would’ve never happened to any of my male colleagues 3) this is awkward as hell
UGH.
Blonde Lawyer
I don’t know the specifics here but would it be salvageable if you make 100% clear that you believe this is a business dinner and go through with it? Then he (assuming he) can save face and just pretend he was asking you on a business dinner all along? Then that window (business) is still open.
Even if it was a blatant date, could you say “not interested in dating but still interested in talking business”? Definitely awkward and it sucks you are dealing with it.
Feminist
Bring along a business colleague? Either male or female (or 1 of every gender, who cares, as long as everyone talks business)
Bonnie
I know this has been discussed before but I can’t find it. Any recs for moisturizer with mineral sunscreen? Want to try something other than my usual Oil of Olay?
anon
Eucerin makes one. If you want something closer to a CC cream, Juice Beauty and SuperGoop are both mineral based.
Anonna
Not for moisturizer but bought foundation by philosophy yesterday with 30SPF. I’m super sensitive to sunscreen but have been very happy so far today with coverage, staying power, and lack of irritation.
Anonymous
I can’t recommend Elta MD enough. I love that stuff.
AnonDenver
Any Denver ladies have counselor recommendations for adults dealing with anger management issues? Thank you in advance.
Anonymous
Kat, I read the comments earlier today and now after checking back in, there are a ton of new original posts (i.e., not replies) that appear above posts I’d already seen–suggesting that those “new” posts were hung up in moderation. There’s quite a few of them and none of them contain anything remotely offensive or controversial. Has there been yet another addition to the moderation criteria? What did the survey results say? I for one responded that it was absurdly overboard, and I find that a much bigger issue than the supposed “lack” of podcasts or a paper planner.
Anonymous
+1
The moderation is absurd and really detracts from conversation.
Nati
I agree. I have in the past taken the time to write very thorough, thoughtful responses only to have them disappear into moderation and not show up for HOURS until the next thread is already open. In each case I could never understand which key words did me in because I was not writing about anything even remotely controversial.
hoola hoopa
+1
Cat
Yep. Plus, the lack of even acknowledging the repeatedly-aired frustration is irritating. If they don’t want to publish a list of Moderation Words (which as you’ve noted grows more ridiculous by the day apparently), couldn’t they at least say so and explain why?
Blonde Lawyer
+ another
HSAL
Yep.
Anon
+10000. I’ve had comments that haven’t showed up until WAY after everyone else has moved on to the next post.