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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
It’s the shortest day of the year and I’m looking for something cozy to hibernate in until the sun comes out again. I would wear this with my comfiest navy or black trousers and some loafers and warm socks while I sit at my desk and pine for warm weather.
The sweater is $110 at Nordstrom and comes in sizes 1X–3X.
The regular-size version of this cardigan seems to be sold out at Madewell and elsewhere, but Quince has a brown button-front cardigan for $69.90 in sizes XS–XL.
P.S. Merry Christmas to those who celebrate!
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Pinging the person looking for topic syllabus
I missed commenting on yesterday’s thread, and would like to add that you can use your local library as a resource for introductory literature to any subject.
On multiple occasions during Covid homeschooling, I have asked my local librarians for lists of books on certain topics, and they always delivered.
And in case you’re still looking for topics: From personal experience as a curious person who likes to explore and is known for embarking onto obscure Wikipedia reading sprees: Local history, including architecture, nature, arts and music has been a source of endless topics to explore.
Anonymous
Libraries are amazing!
A friend home educated her kids long before covid and they were at the library several times a week.
Anon
I was also surprised no one mentioned libraries yesterday!
I love going to a library, but more recently I’ve absolutely prized using the Libby app + my kindle for reading, or just listening to auto books straight from the Libby app.
Anon
+1 to Libby. And free magazines!!
Anon
For my annual self-evaluation at work, I need to answer a question about what my manager can do to provide better support. Specifically, I’m asked to provide one to three examples or suggestions on how my manager can provide better support, coaching, and direction.
I’m a little stumped by what to write. I’ve always been of the mindset that my role is to make my manager’s job easier, not give them more things to do.
Any advice on how I should respond to this prompt?
Anon
Add something positive, like continue to advocate for employees to achieve yadda yadda, continue to advocate for training funding, etc.
Anon
“I’d love to have in-person catch-ups each week about workload and projects where I might learn new skills.”
Anne-on
I’d also ask for them to connect you with other people across the organization so that you can learn what other teams are doing and network with your peers. Helping you identify opportunities to present on leadership meetings/speak at conferences to raise your profile is also a good thing to request. If executive coaching/manager coaching is something you’re interested in I’ve also had colleagues ask for their managers to help them be recommended for those coaches/programs.
NYNY
If you don’t have regular one-on-one meetings to talk about your professional development, this is a good time to request it.
NYNY
And by “regular,” I mean quarterly.
Anon
I’ve always advised people that the best question you can ask your boss (for things like skip level meetings) is “how did you get to be so awesome?” It never, ever backfires. Maybe you can bring some tinge of that into your suggestions.
Anon
Ooh, this is a bit cringe.
Anon
I can’t see anyone but a 22 yr old in their first job asking this on bad advice from their campus CDO. Please do not do this.
Anon
You guys are way too literal. The point is that people love to talk about themselves and feel good about the person who opened up a conversation about themselves. If you have to give your boss feedback and can’t come up with any, just use it as a way to say nice things about boss.
Anon
Being so awesome sounds cringe to me, but I get the intention.
I’d rephrase this as “can you tell me about your journey? I love hearing about the paths people have taken to get where they are today!” Execs love this question (who doesn’t love to talk about themselves?)
Anon
That’s exactly the point!
Cora
This is a normal question! I ask my direct reports this regularly. A managers job is also to enable her team to get things done. Maybe it would be helpful if she helped you get something you need from another team, if she talked to you more about growth and promotions, if she got you more resources about XYZ
Anon
Introductions to serve on cross-unit/cross-functional teams (so you meet and work with others).
Time and money to attend professional development seminars.
Anon
As a manager, honest feedback is a gift! It’s rare, so I really appreciate it when people tell me things I should hear. Constructively, of course. So if there’s something you want them to know, say it!
Anon
Once my team had a retreat with an executive coach presenting on team skill building/positive psychology. I raved about the trainer (knowing my boss picked her) in my evaluation and asked to have some 1:1 sessions with her. My supervisor approved 5 or 6 sessions that were helpful to develop my management style and ultimately helped me get my next job!
A
Ask to be put on a realistic growth assignment if you want one. E.g. “It would be great to get experience managing project type Y next year”
Anonymous
Has anyone traveled to Venice, Italy? Contemplating taking a cruise that leaves from Ravenna and trying to figure out hotels in Venice and transportation. The various options seem complicated online, is it any simpler in person? Coming from the US, first international trip
Cat
Yes and adored it – stay a few nights at least so that you can experience the magic after the day trippers have left.
Cat
oh and options from VCE airport to Venice are essentially as follows- fast, inexpensive, scenic: choose 2
For fast and scenic you can pay to do the iconic speedboat ride from the airport to Venice.
For fast and inexpensive you can take a bus from the airport to the main tr-nsport hub in Venice and then take a vaporetto (water bus) from there
For inexpensive and scenic there are shared boats that run from the airport to stops in Venice, but these are slower.
NYCer
+1. I love Venice. We took a private speedboat from the airport to our hotel.
Anonymous
You can get a train from Rome to Ravenna.
Anonymous
Select your hotel, and they will have instructions on how to get there. We got to take a wooden motorboat to ours, and we felt like we were in a Bond movie. We had to reserve the boat in advance.
Anonymous
Just ignore the fact that they are canals and pretend they are streets — some are walkable some are not. There’s boats that function as busses – we had no trouble taking one from the train station to our hotel – and there’s also taxi boats. It was one of my favorite cities, but we were lucky to be there when there were very few tourists.
Anonymous
It’s very easy to get to Ravenna from Bologna airport, if that’s an option from your home airport. Short train ride.
Florence and Venice airports, and Rome even, is absolutely fine as well.
Trains in Italy are great, and spending a few hours watching the landscape is relaxing.
Anonymous
Venice has been particularly outspoken about the harm that cruise ships do to the city. I would not take a cruise to Venice, there are plenty of other modes of transportation to get you there. Definitely stay a few nights.
JD
Also part of the charm of Venice is truly feeling like you’ve dropped into another world. Being in the cruise herd cuts that down. I’d definitely allot time to just stay in Venice away from the cruise. For planning think about how many suitcases you’ll have. Venice is mostly a walking city with lots of steps and bridges. If you go cheaper and take the vaporetto vs private taxi, you’ll be dragging your luggage a ways.
I studied abroad there years ago. The week my parents came to visit, the buses went on strike and we hauled the luggage across the city.
Anonymous
This. I loved Venice and took a boat to the hotel and then a boat to the train station to continue on to Florence. I’ve heard pretty negative things about cruises to Venice and that Venice is much nicer at night after the cruise crowds leave.
Anon
Go to Bologna instead! It’s closer to Ravenna and much less touristy than Venice. I’ve been to Italy 6 times and love the country but Venice is the one part I don’t love.
JD
I do disagree. Venice is a touristy museum sometimes, especially in the hottest months. However when the crowds disperse on the shoulders of the day, it’s so magical. You just have to curate your experience and ideally avoid it in peak summer travel. There are so many small museums and grand palaces. If you go just a little further from St. Mark’s, there are a few popular squares with cafes and spritz bars. I love it, but assume you’ll want to go to other cities too.
Anon
I was there for a week in the spring and still hated it. It’s like Vegas I think – a very polarizing place that most people either love or hate, but I know others who really dislike it too.
Frustrated
I have a frustrating situation at work. I manage a compliance system that requires teams to input things before they happen. One team doesn’t like the system and so they refuse to use it. They will come to me after the fact with “dog ate my homework” type excuses or plead ignorance. This has been going on for months. I’ve talked to their boss who insists his instruction is that they must do it. I’ve tried sending him examples and reports. At this point I feel like I’m just nagging and that it reflects poorly on me that I’m nagging and that they aren’t using the system I am responsible for. I am too far in it to see clearly. How do I get out of this?
Cat
Have you asked what about it doesn’t match up with their workflow? While some learning curve is always expected with system use, etc, if an entire team is revolting it’s worth asking why.
OP
Yes, they claim it takes too long. It takes less than 5 minutes. I’ve timed it. None of the other teams complain. My guess is they don’t like the accountability it provides as they’ve been operating under the radar for years.
anon
What is the volume this team is dealing with? We have a similar situation at work with CRM software where it is set up for teams with 5-10 clients per sales manager. The one team who hates it has approximately 50-80 small volume clients per sales manager and it is. not. possible. for them to continue to meet their sales targets and input every interaction into the software. Management softly supports their noncompliance while still publicly saying they should give every effort to comply. Maybe something similar is happening here?
Anonymous
+1 to why aren’t they using it?
Also, do you have a regular meeting with the higher ups who implemented this system? Ostensibly somebody somewhere cares that this is being used – it was someone’s good idea fairy that invented this. I’d look for an opportunity to report that “All teams except one regularly send in requested reports using System.”
Anonymous
Or maybe invent a quarterly “Compliance with Compliance Reporting” report that you mail out to everyone to shame Team A into using it?
Anon
Yep. Name and shame.
NYC
Yes, this. We had terrible timesheet compliance after it was rolled out at my company. Started sending reports on compliance to executive senior leadership, which summarized compliance by individual, team, function, etc. Now it’s at 90-100%.
Anonymous
I think you need to loop someone else in here. The “who” depends on your company org chart. First, I’d talk to your own manager — the tone of that conversation could either be collaborative (“I need a gut check on whether the system is necessary in this instance” or “I need feedback on how best to handle this situation -here’s what I’ve tried…”) or a request for more firepower (e.g., that your manager talk to the team boss or the boss’s boss). If you’re more senior than the manager who is not managing his team, it may be time for you to talk to that person’s manager.
I’m also assuming that you’ve solicited feedback from the team about whether the system truly isn’t configured in a way that supports their work. For example, at my last company, all customer facing employees were supposed to enter any customer complaints in a reporting system within 1 business day, but the system was designed for a set of customer complaints that had nothing to do with my business unit’s product. The work around wasn’t intuitive-and we received a very low volume of complaints- so the team had to re-learn every time. Even if you can’t change the configurations, demonstrating that you’re listening could help with the team’s compliance and will help protect you/your team if this blows up at a higher level in the company.
Anon
Their boss needs one more chance to hold the team accountable for using it, and if it still doesn’t happen, you escalate (your boss, the manager’s boss, whoever is appropriate). Tell the manager this is the path you are pursuing so the manager takes you seriously and isn’t surprised if it happens. It seems there have been no consequences, so why wouldn’t the team keep doing what they want to do?
Keep a paper trail of all of this bc if something goes sideways because that team isn’t using the system, you need to show the steps you took to get them to use it.
Do you have a policy around this? If so, can you get internal audit on if they won’t get in line after trying everything else and giving the manager another chance?
I hate this $hit. If they truly aren’t using it for the reason you laid out, that’s not a system/workflow issue, that’s a team issue.
Anon
Do you have buy-in from upper management? If so, this is when you bring them in. If you don’t, then you need to let it go (and polish up your resume/find a new job, if this is a critical thing you’ll take the fall for when regulators discover it’s not being done timely).
Anon
You’re in compliance. Your job is to make sure people comply. Not to make sure it’s easy to do so or that they like you or don’t complain too much. There has to be enforcement behind compliance or it’s meaningless. Lack of compliance needs to leave to consequences on performance appraisals. If this team’s boss continues to give you lip service. Go over his head. Be the mean mommy. It’s the job.
test run
+1 there needs to be a consequence for not following the rule (at my organization if you don’t do some of these things a portion of your bonus gets withheld), otherwise you’re never going to get them to change.
Anon
Nope. If your job is to make sure people comply than your job *IS* to make sure it’s easy to do. Otherwise it doesn’t get done.
Anonymous
Weekly red/ green dashboard with those that are noncomplaint highlighted in red. Bosses copied.
Guaranteed improvement.
Anon
Sobs softly in academia…
Anon
Pretty sure my pants don’t have room in the waist to tuck in a big puffy sweater. Any good stretchy waist bottoms you’ve found lately? Bonus if they are full length and have a fuller leg (but aren’t flares, at most a baby boot cut).
Anonymous
The pants in the picture don’t look like they have room either. I’d bet there is less than half an inch tucked in and the rest of the sweater is binder clipped behind her back.
Do they make stretchy waist bottoms that are not athleisure or for people with mobility issues?? I’ve never seen any…
NYC
The Fold and Vince both make dress pants that have a waist band with a back stretchy panel. I own pairs from both :)
Anonymous
I have a pair of pants from j crew factory, the Jamie I believe, that have elastic only in the back so you can half tuck if that’s your jam.
anon
To me, this is such an odd look…. to have pants with belt loops for a belt… but wear no belt, yet tuck in your sweater…. and use the belt loops for your thumbs, as if that is the role. But yes, people do not wear belts, which is the one solution to adjusting pants to your actual human waist and if your top is tucked in/out, thicker/thinner fabric etc…
And I mean…. finding pants that fit on a woman perfectly in the waist and the hips so that you can tuck in a sweater this thick and have it look not crazy is like…. impossible??!?!? Obviously the waist must be too large and she likely in the back has huge clips holding everything together so it looks balanced in the front, they way they do in photo shoots.
Anonymous
Hmmm. I think you might have a differently shaped body than me. I tend to have very little difference between my waist and hips so as long as the waist is a bit bigger than mine I can tuck. Whether it’s flattering is a whole other story, but it’s not impossible for everyone to do this.
Later Early
If you link to the product site, there are a few different pictures showing the sweater on the model untucked
Have you never seen a photo shoot before? I don’t think it’s realistic to have sleeves rolled up on a button down or a blazer, just so, but people come here asking about how to roll sleeves up the J. Crew way all the time. People are different and fashion is weird
Anon
No pants are going to look good with a lot of fabric tucked into them, no matter how stretchy they are.
Anonymous
Tw weight loss and drugs
Has anyone began taking a semi-glutide drug for weight loss ? I’m officially overweight and have been since I had a baby in 2021. I’m down about 10 ponds since last year but am still about 12 pounds from a normal bmi and about 30 pounds from my idea weight. I’m not dumb or undisciplined; I know what I have to do but with all the stress of life I feel like I don’t have the mental capacity to be dieting. I get super hungry, confused and distracted. I make dumb mistakes, both in my job and in life. My question is will the drugs help with this? If I’m still in a calorie deficit will I be distracted and have difficulty concentrating like when I’m in a calorie deficit without the drugs?
Anonymous
I have loved my experience but I wasn’t 12 pounds overweight. More like 80. Seems like a big move to take drugs over that.
Anonymous
I know it does. It’s just that after years of work it still seems out of reach. I hate the distraction and confusion I get with even a modest calorie deficit. I need to be able to write an email that isn’t sloppy or remember where my keys are in the process of losing this weight.
Anonymous
You don’t have to lose 12 pounds. You can just move on with life.
Anonymous
You do you but I think being at a healthy bmi is a perfectly reasonable goal.
Anonymous
She’s contemplating either taking life long medication or suffering intolerable brain fog.
It’s ok to choose neither and just live your life.
Anonymous
The pro-fat audience here which is quite strange.
Anon
I agree. These drugs are supposed to be lifelong commitments, from what I understand, so 12 lbs into the overweight BMI category isn’t really what they’re meant for. They do have real side effects that can affect your health more than the extra weight you currently carry (which may not be actually affecting your blood pressure, etc. at such a small amount).
Anonymous
I take generic tirzapetide from a compounding pharmacy. It slows your digestion so that food lasts longer in your stomach and quiets whatever starving gremlin lives in your brain and hollers out “Feed me, Seymour!” I’ve lost 50 lbs and am now in maintenance and yes, plan to take it for the rest of my life. Freedom from food noise is such a mental relief for me!
At the beginning, it made me so unhungry that I could hardly take a bite of anything and felt pretty weak and exhausted from that. (Of course!) And omg, if I binged on sweets the way I used to, holy nausea Batman! It makes sweet cravings disappear and rejects them when they arrive in large quantities (so just don’t do that, trust me). I’d encourage you to get and keep around some of your favorite bland foods that you eat when you’re sick before taking your first dose – things like crackers, toast, were all I wanted sometimes.
Oh and definitely, definitely take a daily fiber supplement or gummy. It made me terribly constipated in the beginning, so my stomach couldn’t empty out, which in turn made me horribly, horribly nauseated. It was so bad I ended up having to call the on-call doc and he asked if I had gone, and he sent me to the pharmacy to pick up a laxative and all was well. So please do yourself a favor and just take a fiber supplement from the beginning.
Looking back, it was absolutely worth a queasy 3-4 weeks while my tummy got used to what was going on. I mean, I’m down FIFTY pounds! From an 18 to a 10! It feels really good to feel like myself again. Really good.
Anonymous
Op here! I’m so happy for you thanks for sharing.
anon
Following. I’m not sure where us 30-extra-pound people fit in the big picture now. We don’t need medical intervention but it’s not weight that will come off with anything short of a Herculean effort.
Anonymous
Op here. Right. I just need something to take the edge off of the confusion and brain fog that dieting gives me. I’m so uncomfortable I my own skin I don’t want to have to spend another year doing what I’m doing and still be technically overweight.
Anon
I don’t think it’s normal to feel confusion and brain fog from dieting! Have you worked with a doctor and dietician to make sure you’re not giving yourself deficiencies or going hypoglycemic or hypothyroid from the calorie restriction?
Anonymous
For what it’s worth I have the same issue as OP and have checked out fine medically. It’s akin to the brain fog / distraction I felt while on chemo so it’s definitely not minor. I’ve also worked with a dietician. I’m a little more overweight (30 lbs after chemo and then a pregnancy) and I need to cut calories to about 1500-1600 for the scale to move at all, and that’s the level I’m experiencing these symptoms. I can’t function in my life the way I need to with the symptoms – I have to be on my A game at basically every moment because I’m the default parent and I have a relatively big job.
OP, for what it’s worth, I did have success a few years ago moving the scale without these symptoms when I was on anxiety medication, which people sometime complain about making them gain weight. It had the opposite effect for me. I am not on it right now due to fertility treatment but will likely explore it again after my next pregnancy.
JD
I know it’s not what you asked, but I’ve decided to just ride out the really small kids era without optimizing my appearance. I’m so tired and busy, that I’m letting being fabulous go. I’d try to buy some clothes you really like and maintain a nice haircut/lip color every day over dieting. I just don’t have it in my capacity right now. As you said, dieting or only salads for lunch makes me so hungry against everything else on my plate. The stress/sleep loss has to go down at some point, fingers crossed.
Anon
I started Saxenda in January and had to switch to Wegovy about a month and a half ago due to the shortage. Now, Wegovy is in massive shortage. I had probably about a 100 pounds to lose, and I’ve lost 52 pounds so far. So, different equation than for you. These drugs work differently for everyone. I had very minimal side effects from Saxenda and just vague nausea with Wegovy. It massively quieted the food noise for me. I don’t have the urge to snack. I’m not hungry for the most part, so I have to remind myself to eat many times. I would consider it a lifelong prescription medication for me. However, many, many people are using it for just what you are looking for. Just some help to get some relatively small amount of weight off. There are some people that have very significant side effects from these drugs. I would recommend speaking with a medical doctor about this. Not a med spa or something just online. Also, as I said above, these medications are in massive shortages right now. So, you have to be prepared to not always have access to these meds or spend hours looking for them by calling pharmacies.
Anon
I thought using it temporarily to lose 15-30 lb didn’t work because of regaining as soon the med is stopped? (Unless people are also staying on it to keep the 15-30 lb off?)
Anon
I think that you would typically gain it back. I was referring to many celebrities that are using it off label to lose relatively small amounts of weight. Stopping it when you are done losing the weight and starting back up once you gain it back.
Mounjaro User
I’ve been taking Mounjaro since November 2022 and I’m down 113 pounds with only a few more to go. While I consider the medicine to be a true miracle, it’s not a cake walk. It’s expensive, there are side effects, calorie deficit is required to lose weight, stigma (society is a real b*tch about obesity), stress of getting the medicine (there has been a lot of production delays), the list goes on. It’s humiliating to share, but this is the 3rd time in my adult like that I’ve lost this type of weight. I will say this time has been the easiest to stick to CICO and exercise. I’m happy to answer any questions you have.
Anonymous
Thank you so much and congratulations and there is no need to be embarrassed. My question is basically about the food noise. Most of the time when I count my calories I can avoid the urge to eat over them. However I get so darn loopy. Like I walked upstairs three times the other day to get my keys and kept forgetting them. This doesn’t happen when I’m not in a calorie deficit. Do you feel that level of brain fog on the medication?
Anon
Other tirzeparide poster here. I’ve never experienced that feeling, dieting, on meds, or otherwise. I’m guessing you’re restricting carbs too far and your brain rebels – the brain specifically uses carbs to power itself.
https://www.insider.com/physical-signs-not-eating-enough-carbs-brain-fog-fatigue-dietitian-2022-7
Mounjaro User
No, I’ve never felt that way on the medication. But I do get lightheaded a lot from electrolyte imbalances. I resolve it by staying hydrated (about 100oz of water a day) and supplementing with an electrolyte drink as necessary (like LiquidIV powder). The lack of food noise is dramatic. For those who don’t suffer with that demon, it’s hard to explain the quiet my brain feels now.
Anon
I know exactly what you are talking about with dieting. What made a significant difference for me was getting a lot more protein with each meal. I was trying to do calorie deficit but not eating enough protein. Now if I do that, I am not as hungry/brain foggy/lack of ability to concentrate. This might be something to try before meds.
Anonymous
I found this too. As I lowered my carbohydrate intake a little I made sure I had some protein every time I ate. I did not increase the protein but spread it out more. I lost weight slowly but was not hungry.
Anon
I thought about a lack of protein immediately when I read the OP’s post. I’ve experienced the brain fog when dieting and on these meds. It is usually an indicator to me that I need to up my protein.
Anonymous
+1
Without enough available protein and essential fatty acids, it can be starvation more than dieting, and not sustainable.
Anonymous
Rather than taking semiglutide, what about old fashioned diet pills like phentermine? while I think diet pills are sort of a dirty word, I think that’s what people in the 10-30 pound range could use to help knock those pounds off. Regardless of what you decide, you should get blood work done and do this under the direction of a doctor. The confusion/brain fog you describe should be investigated further.
Anon
My doctor at a hospital weight loss clinic suggested phentermine due to the Wegovy backlog. I declined because anxiety is a side effect, and I already struggle with anxiety. It’s definitely an option to consider!
Anonymous
PSA please read or watch information from actual medical doctors about these medications. They’re a lot more than weight-loss and have some potentially very serious life threatening side effects.
https://youtu.be/PsFXybgykxw?si=f6Amb2W61Wos-02-
Anon for this
I have lost 20 pounds on Rybelus, which is an oral version of semiglutide, and I could not be more thrilled. I’m taking it off-label for weight loss, obviously. I get it from a pharmacy in Canada (liferx dot com) and it’s working out to about $50/month because I buy a version that is made in India. I had the queasy stomach for the first few weeks, and I still eat more like a toddler than a grown woman, but for me it was worth it. I fully expect to take a very low dose for life (maybe 3 mg every other day) and I am perfectly okay with that. As you may have read in the press, it quiets the food noise. My doctor and I agree that with my lifelong phychological issues around my weight, it is well worth it for the peace of mind.
Anon
I only had 10 lbs to lose, and I am taking a semi-glutide. I lost the 10 lbs and am staying steady. My BMI is 23, and that is perfect for me. It works. Just be careful about going slow with the doses, taking fiber gummies, getting protein and good fats, and continue strength training. The best part for me is that it cuts out the food noise. I was CONSTANTLY thinking about food and having a hard time eating normal amounts of calories. Some of it was hunger but most of it was just cravings. It has been such a weight off my shoulders to not think about food or my weight anymore.
Gluten free Italy
I would love to bring my teenage daughters to Italy in the next year. The challenge is that my older daughter was recently diagnosed with celiac disease, and we’re all more interested in destinations in southern Italy than in the north (where there are more rice options). I’d love to hear from anyone who has traveled in Italy with celiac or another strict gluten-free diet. I’ve read that there are plenty of gluten free options in grocery stores, but we’d like to enjoy restaurants as well. Are there options outside of Rome? Will my daughter be stuck eating protein bars while the rest of us enjoy delicious breakfast pastries?
Anonymous
It’s not hard actually! Italians are very aware of this lots of gluten free restaurant options.
ALT
Not firsthand experience but my boss has celiac and she went to Italy over the summer. She said they were great about her celiac and gluten-free things were much more available over there. I studied abroad in Italy over a decade ago and a girl in my program has celiac and I don’t recall her having any sort of less-than experience. We were in S Italy so you should be fine.
Anon
I can’t speak to gluten free substitutes, but I know a celiac person who studied abroad in Florence ten years ago and was fine. Print out a little card that explains the medical requirements in Italian. Hand it to your waiter when ordering. They’ll confirm that the dish doesn’t contain flour and the kitchen follows allergy protocol.
Before traveling make sure you understand which Italian dishes are naturally gluten free (risotto is, arancini isn’t). Like any city, if your daughter goes into this assuming she can find rice flour at every restaurant she’ll be disappointed.
busybee
I have celiac disease and Italy is great! There’s substantial public understanding of the disease, and restaurants take preparation of gluten free food seriously. The most delicious gluten free pizza I ever had was in Naples.
Anon
Restaurants were wonderful about gluten-free dining when I visited Naples and the Amalfi coast. I was staying in a small town for most of the trip and it was off season for tourism. I was embarrassed that when a local family restaurant didn’t have any gluten free bread, they sent someone out to buy some from the grocery store! (I never asked about it; they had just noticed that I wasn’t eating any of the bread and asked me why.) All the fancier, more touristy restaurants had gluten-free pasta. Naples had dedicated gluten-free bakeries with pastries that didn’t taste second rate.
My overall impression was that Celiac is perceived as a very serious condition that needs to be accommodated.
Anonymous
Totally doable. Italians care about food and use actual ingredients.
For lunch and dinner, look at the secondi menus.
Do plan ahead, though, and say very clearly that she is senza glutine and celiac, always.
Since it’s celiac, cross-contamination might make it a little more difficult, but Italy has proper food made from scratch, which makes everything easier.
Anonymous
My daughter has a severe dairy allergy and we actually go to Italy a ton because I find that people are so good about accommodating. That said, I did read up on the cuisine, so I knew what dishes are likely to be dairy free or easy to modify. And think about other modifications – like if you go to an olive oil tasting, maybe bring your own bread if they don’t have gluten free.
Gluten free is pretty common in most tourist areas. Italy has a great food culture – the fresh fruit and veg is amazing!
When shopping in grocery stores for packaged goods, you can just use the google translate app to hover over the ingredients list and it will translate. Bring a card to restaurants that notes in Italian that she has celiac and it’s not just a dietary preference – lots of example online.
Anonymous
You’ll have a great time! Italy is the best place to visit with celiac disease. They are very aware of gluten and cross contamination, and it is so prevalent there that they test children for it before they start school. I took my son to Rome, Naples, Florence, and Milan last summer and we had plenty of options. Many restaurants have 2 kitchens, with 2 chefs, one is all gluten free and one is not gluten free. Make sure to double check when they bring your order, though. My son got glutened at a pizza place with 2 separate kitchens in Florence because the waitress brought the wrong order to our table and he ate a little of a regular pizza.
If you haven’t already, download the Find Me Gluten Free app, get the paid version. Also use the Celiac Travel FB group for up to date restaurant reviews – just search the cities you want to visit. Check out a pharmacy when you are there. Some of them have a whole aisle of gluten free shelf-stable foods, because it is considered like medicine for people with celiac disease there.
Meredith
As a celiac I actually find Italy one of the easiest places to travel and I’ve spent a fair bit of time travelling around. Everywhere (even tiny Tuscan village restaurants had GF options). Their celiac association does great education and certification so people tend to be extremely knowledgeable about cross-contamination etc. The only difference will be in some smaller restaurants/villas etc they won’t make things like the bakery items from scratch and may bring them pre-packaged to assure you there is no cc. Honestly perhaps because there is a culture of valuing food, I find people are super keen to accommodate and will go out of their way to make sure you have a good experience.
Anon
Celiac and Italian-American here. Eating in Italy is fortunately not a problem. I actually have better experiences there than in the US! There’s a national certification (a red logo) that you’ll see on restaurant doors and menus certifying the food is “senza glutine” and appropriately prepared. I also saw many menus that list every possible allergy and ingredient.
Celiac is more common genetically among Italians, and the government even provides a tax break to celiacs due to the increased cost of food.
I have eaten delicious pasta, pizza, and otherwise, in Rome and Southern Italy (Pescara, Molise, Puglia) and had 0 problems. Never once experienced cross contamination or any symptoms. No server looked at me funny, confused, or clueless. Enjoy your trip!
https://glutenfreeglobetrotter.com/2021/11/11/traveling-as-a-celiac-in-italy/
Anon
Also, to have in your back pocket, “celiaca” (feminine) or “celiaco” (masculine) is the word for some w/ celiac disease in Italian…I find Italians have a greater awareness of what that means than most Americans.
Italians are super accomodating, so advocate for yourself! I can’t tell you the number of times my highly educated US colleagues look annoyed or ask “why can’t you just pick off the croutons” when I convey my dietary need at a group dinner or event.
help!
I’m splurging on some new headshots next week and really having trouble on choosing what to wear. They want me to bring 3-4 outfit choices!
I have some nice blazers of course, but the trend in the last year is for a bigger blazer and I feel that doesn’t look super flattering in close-cropped headshots. I’m DEFINITELY not a “blouse” person and never really have been (have never owned a white button down and when I try one on I just feel like a cater waiter).The one or two I have have small prints which is not recommended for photos…
I just bought lots of nice new clothes I love for work and play but none of them seem right for a headshot, but maybe I need to buy something else?
What do you wear in yours and what do you like or not like?
ALT
I’m on the larger side and wore a blazer in my most recent headshots—I strongly dislike them. I feel like it added bulk and wasn’t super flattering, mostly because it was buttoned and I rarely button a blazer while wearing it. Underneath I wore a fitted sweater tee in a flattering bright color. I wore a 3/4 sleeved belted sheath dress in previous headshots and I liked that much better—it felt more streamlined and more “me”.
Anne-on
I wore a dress with an ‘interesting’ neckline in both of my last two headshots. I look terrible in crew necks and I’ve found that for a blazer to look right in photos it needs to be VERY tightly fitted, which is annoying when wearing them in real life.
The first dress I wore was a Donna Karan one with a neckline similar to the Fold’s ‘Portland’ dress (a slight angle that dipped just under a collarbone), and the other dress had a boatneck with a square notch cut out right at the throat that framed a necklace nicely. Both were in deep jewel tones as I look awful in black. I’ve had to wear blazers before and generally went for charcoal grey or deep navy with a jewel toned camisole underneath.
Cat
A dress in a flattering color and neckline. Traditional blazer + b-tt-n-down looks awful and stuffy and neck-less on me.
Senior Attorney
Agree with this. My favorite head shots have been in dresses in saturated colors. Also nice, smallish earrings.
Deedee
I’m wearing a french blue shell and a black, relatively close cut blazer in mine. I wish I had other outfit options handy! Just some thoughts…
I would wear a closer fit blazer but make sure the lapel looked current, as that’s what will be in focus in the photo. I think that navy tends to photograph better than black, but I wouldn’t pair a basic black or navy blazer with a white button up. (It looks “girl playing dress up” on me.) If you do black or navy blazer, imo a shell or blouse with some drape would look better. Consider whether you look better in white or cream or a color. I probably would stay away from prints sadly. A colorful or textured blazer could look terrific I think; for me this would be a mid-grey tweed, dark green, or burgundy.
You could also consider a sleeved dress! I don’t own many myself, but a sheath with sleeves (and maybe even an interesting neckline) could look good.
I fear I look a little Elizabeth Holmes, but I love a good black turtleneck (or whatever color suits your features). Depending on your setting, a turtleneck in a smooth, fine gauge wool could be a dressy enough option.
Maybe consider one option with your hair styled slightly differently? Like most of the photos with it down (if that’s how you usually wear it) and another pulled up/back? With a different top underneath, that could help create a different “look” with the same blazer.
Anon
I moved around as a kid a lot and suspect that I missed a lot of basic education that way.
Today’s issue: female and male to me are adjectives. And yet I read a lot of things, written by people who I think probably have much better schooling than me, where they are used as nouns (“Females prefer . . .”). It’s clear from the context that the writer is talking about female persons and male persons, but for some reason (I feel that I should know this, but I don’t), the writers choose not to use “women” or “men.” Even if you are talking about “white females”, to me those are still just both adjectives and need a noun “white female humans” or “white female persons” or why not just “white women”. I guess “females” could include children, but I think that this is all talking about adults from other things in context (in this case, retirement-related and I think only adults retire).
To be honest, I learned about English more when I took Spanish, where you focus on parts of speech, but I’m a native English speaker.
Anon
I sometimes see this at work, but I always side eye the use of females as a noun because it’s typically used that way by the incel community…
Anonymous
Unfortunately I think the use of female in place of woman comes from the darkest anti-woman corners of the internet. It’s meant to be dehumanizing.
Anon
Yeah it’s a little red flag for me. Beware of what’s ahead when you try to actually have a conversation with a man (male?) who refers to women as females.
Anon
This. It’s a way of likening us to gorillas or dogs, especially regarding our preferences for men.
Anon
They’re doing it to be inclusive because everyone thinks that it’s OK to dehumanize women as long as it benefits someone else. They’re afraid to use the word women.
Anonymous
This.
Women, and the language that realtes to them, are being erased in the name of ‘inclusivity’ in a way that men, and the language that relates to them, are not.
Anon
Yes. Same issue with frequent use of “girls” to describe adult women. It’s dehumanizing and infantilizing.
Or, the regional variation “gals”. Example: the gal from Penn, to refer to the Ivy League President with a PhD
Anon
Using an adjective substantively is common and grammatical in English. But it can certainly carry different connotations.
Turtlemania
This is the best and most straightforward answer.
Anon
That nomenclature is common in the military. My (very liberal, happily married, and definitely not an incel) Dad uses it a lot. It is just a habit he picked up in the Navy.
It is also used by people who are trying to refer to biologically female persons but do not want to offend women who were not identified as female at birth.
Anonymous
It’s almost like maybe our military traditions are inherently patriarchal!
Anon
I think the military use supports that the use of females is dehumanizing and sexist. While the US military is trying to get its act together, there’s bad history and a long way to go.
Anonymous
Agreed! Like how Pollyanna to you have to be to make this argument with a straight face?!?!
Anonymous
I’m prior military, and concur that female and male are the terms used for women and men. There’s nothing sexist about it and I have literally never thought in my life – and nor will I ever – think it’s sexist as used in the military. The military may have a number of problems, but calling women females ain’t one of them. It’s like the fact that they call a backpack a ruck sack – it’s simply their word that’s evolved over time for their purposes.
Same goes for academic and clinical writing. It’s simply not offensive.
OP, I posted the other day about “diligence” used as a verb. It grates on my ears, but it’s normal in some circles. So is this.
Anonymous
I disagree about academic writing. I am a social scientist and there is endless debate over the correct terminology for race and ethnicity and gender and sex. Any choice of words in my field is extremely deliberate, and it is very trendy to choose language that intentionally and specifically erases cis women.
Anonymous
As a long-time dual citizen (UK/US) one word usage I still struggle with is back pack not rucksack!
Anon
My stepfather is retired Air Force (was a lifer). We’ve had this exact conversation. He has stopped using females. Even though he didn’t question it, and didn’t mean it to be offensive, he realized the impact, how the word falls on women, doesn’t align with his liberal values. Intent doesn’t equal impact.
Anon
I see “males” used a lot in legal filings. Always about people. To me, it feels a bit dehumanizing. We are sending a lot of males to prison or they have other legal system involvement. But they are human beings. “Males” seems . . . sterile or clinical or otherwise wrong in a way that I can’t put my finger on. It could be adults (usually) or juvenile offenders, but the age is always clear in my state.
Anon
Male and female can be used as nouns and it makes sense when you’re trying to be clinical and emphasize the biological sex aspect. So I think it’s fine in scientific or other academic writing and maybe legal (depending on the context). But I wouldn’t use it in normal speech.
Anon
The problem for clinical writing is that “females” is not specific. Female what? Horses? Cows?
Anon
Specific to whatever organism you’ve previously referenced. Humans, mice, birds, etc. Just like it always is when you write.
Anon
It’s actually usually not confusing. If a doctor wrote “female” in their clinic notes, CLEARLY they are talking about a human female.
This is not an endorsement of using female and male as nouns (I really hate it), but it’s not confusing.
Anon
Didn’t say it was confusing – said it wasn’t specific. The best writing is specific.
Anon
Ahh, well good point. We do typically expect that message board posts, doctors’ notes, and police reports are written in using the best possible literary conventions!
Anon
That’s a bizarre argument. I’m actually a scientist and if I were to write a paper about mice, I definitely wouldn’t write “female mice” every single time I reference females, just because someone might get confused halfway through my paper and somehow think that I’m suddenly talking about female cats, even though my entire paper is on sex differences in mice. I don’t love the use of females as a noun either, but it absolutely would be acceptable in scientific writing, whether applied to mice or humans, especially when the emphasis is on female biological status rather than gender identity as a woman.
Anon
It’s also not specific within the context of humans. If an academic paper writes “females suffer from more anxiety than men” (because let’s be real, men still get to be called men), does that include girls and women? Or just one or the other?
Anonymous
No it is always just people dehumanizing women. Intentionally or through ignorance.
Anon
This is not directed to you personally but one of the things that makes me crazy is when highly educated people decide that a specific term or word has an implicit meaning and that anyone who uses it is racist, sexist, etc. You are hearing from multiple people (presumably women) who are telling you that it is common in many settings and not offensive. I suspect if you polled English speakers in the US you would find that most people do not agree with you. And yet a relatively small number of well-educated people have decided that their version of English is the only acceptable version and that anyone who does not agree with them is wrong.
It is one of the reasons that people, especially people without college educations, hate liberals. There are many ways in which our society does not treat women well. Using the term “female” instead of “women” – particularly in areas where biology matters, is not one of them.
Anon
Amen.
Anonymous
Not just wrong – bad, with ill intent.
Anon
There’s something to this. It reminds me a little of the handwringing over person first language for people who don’t always appreciate it. (I’ll never trust anyone who can’t remember that “a diabetic” is a person unless they say “a diabetic person” every time.)
Anon
I don’t ever want to be referred to as “female” or “Caucasian” and sometimes these descriptions are used by people who want to sound smarter or scientific.
Anonymous
It angers me when someone will write “females prefer ABC and men prefer XYZ in a sentence” in a casual setting, I find that extremely dehumanizing. I am fine if it’s in an academic scientific or clinical context where the preferred term is female and male humans or persons and say they’re comparing results between the demographics.
But don’t even get me started on the internet trend of people using the plural (women) instead of singular (woman), when they are clearly writing about a singular woman, and don’t mix this up for men or man.
Elle
I am in the military and this language is very common. But I agree with you: female and male should as adjectives. I find that “females” is often used in a demeaning way whereas a group of “males” are referred to as men.
Anon
I would not assume that the writer of what you’re reading are correct and that you’re missing something in your education. There are a lot of people who can’t manage basic writing, partly because our public school system in lot of places in the US sucks. The number of attorneys I’ve worked with you can’t string together a paragraph is shocking
I think it’s more likely that the person who wrote the item you’re reading thinks it makes him sound more intellectual or something else weird like that.
Anon
I find “females” as a noun to refer to human girls and women. Female as an adjective could be anything, as others have said. A female dog or a female cow or whatever.
I grew up in a pretty macho/misogynist hometown, and the men who use “females” didn’t ever use it with respect.
Anon
A New York Times op-ed yesterday pointed out that recent survey results conducted by Harvard show the following: “All this is likely to get worse: A Harvard-Harris poll conducted this month finds that 44 percent of Americans ages 25 to 34, and a whopping 67 percent of those ages 18 to 24, agree with the proposition that “Jews as a class are oppressors.” By contrast, only 9 percent of Americans over 65 feel that way. The same generation that received the most instruction in the virtues of tolerance is now the most antisemitic in recent memory.”
This terrifies me. This facile oppressor/oppressed worldview (which I can attest that the Gen Zers in my life apply to EVERYTHING) is going to be used to justify atrocities against the Jews. The kids aren’t alright.
Anonymous
Can we not? Both sides have committed wrong in this war.
Anon
Who said anything about war?
Anonymous
Not who you’re responding to but I have noticed that no one seemed to post daily about anti-semitism until October. As a persons with Jewish heritage who is subject to antisemitism I was extremely concerned about Charlottesville and the fact that q anon was and is a sloppy modern version of the blood libel. This was not a daily topic of discussion.
I think it’s disingenuous to pretend that this sudden daily posting about antisemitism can be divorced from the recent events in Israel and Gaza.
Anon
One of the hallmarks of antisemitism is that it is the wellspring conspiracy theory that leads to all other conspiracy theories (because whatever it is, the Jews are controlling it — that’s the theory, not what I personally believe, just to be clear).
Which means that conspiracy theorists generally, including the Q people and the Charlottesville people and their white supremacist ilk, are always ready to hop on the antisemitism bandwagon as soon as something in the news (like Hamas’s invasion, even before Israel responded) happens.
I think that accounts for much (most?) of the massive increase in antisemitism since the invasion.
RS
There is increased antisemitism globally as of Oct 7 so what is the problem if calling this out is not divorced from the war?
Unless you think the increased antisemitism is justified because of the war. Personally I think that would make you antisemitic. You say you have Jewish heritage so I want to tread lightly but I’m not sure why it’s a problem to name increased antisemitism as of Oct 7.
Anon
Right – rising antisemitism may happen in response to world events. It makes sense that it would be discussed more (when the rise has occurred) compared to before (when it was present but less acute). This isn’t some kind of “gotcha.”
Anne-on
And that’s the problem. Jewish people aren’t all Israeli, and conflating the two is deliberately obtuse. I’d hate for people to think that I supported Trump just because I was American, so why would you think all Jewish people, the world over, support the government of Israel just because of their religion? Ugh.
Anonymous
Where was the war mentioned in the post?
Anon
Wow. Way to make her point for her.
Anon
We can’t even acknowledge atrocities on both sides now?
Anon
Huge eye roll. Jewish people in this country who are the targets of anti-Semites aren’t committing any atrocities anywhere.
Anon
The oppressed can still be oppressors. Half of the bombs in Gaza were blind. Hardly “targeted” like so many on here have been claiming. The bloodthirst on this site has been unreal.
Anon
Yes, the oppressed can be oppressors, but the way you wrote this suggests that you are holding Jews responsible for the actions of the IDF in combat. Is that what you mean to say?
Bloodthirst also evokes old antisemitic tropes for me, which I would normally wonder if I was overreacting but your word choice makes me not sure what you actually mean.
NYNY
So I clicked through to the poll, because I generally mistrust Bret Stephens. I think it’s a terrible poll, and that it was a particularly bad question. For example, the poll asked if people stood with Israel or Hamas in the current war, but did not give an option to stand with the people of Gaza. It also looks like the “are Jews oppressors” question was surrounded by questions about Israel, so there was likely conflation of Israel and Jewish people overall. My takeaway is that simple yes/no polls are only good for supporting bad op-ed writing.
Anonymous
+1 I was thinking the same thing. Frankly I think that yes/no polls like that are actively harmful in that they discourage nuanced thinking, and if there was ever a situation that calls for nuanced thinking it’s Israel/Gaza.
Anon
The Holocaust was a LONG time ago when you’re a teen. It’s as far away for them (80 years / three, nearly four, generations) as WWI or the Wright Brothers or that newfangled telephone was for us, depending how old you are. Remember how ancient those felt to you in history class? But what they are seeing now, in real time, right in their hands on TikTok, is the destruction and casualty reports from Gaza. The numbers are not flattering to Israel. Plenty of people don’t know to distinguish between the nation and the adherents of its faith.
Anonymous
Agree with this. Also, I think there are some intellectually dishonest people that conflate anti-semitism with any critic of the current Israeli government.
Anon
I think there is probably also some Russian propaganda happening. The diagram of young people who think Ukrainians “are Nazis” and who also compare Jews to Nazis now seems to be a circle. (I am not defending the unpopular and unhinged RW Israeli government or their actions, or white supremacism in Ukraine or elsewhere.)
Anon
PSA for teens who are willing to read: Anne Berest, “The Postcard.” Gorgeously makes the point that the Holocaust was yesterday. Also reads a little like a murder mystery, so apt to keep a teen’s attention. (I can’t believe I have to say that.)
Anon
I would ask you to please ask yourself why you are continually posting here about anti-Semitism and asking people to validate your fears. I understand why you have these beliefs; I think your feelings are legitimate. I also think you need to talk to a therapist, if fears of anti-Semitism/anti-Jewish violence are this pervasive for you. I think you are continually searching the media for points of information that are going to reinforce the worldview you have already adopted, and using those points to retreat further and further into a mental space of: “everything is dangerous; everyone is out to get me; danger is imminent; I must be constantly fearful.” And then you’re posting here about it to feel validated/reinforced. It’s not dissimilar to some of the anxiety I saw posted here during Covid: “the world is dangerous and threatening and anyone not wearing a mask actively wants to kill me.” I don’t know if you were one of those people, also. But posting here about your fears repeatedly is not going to help you live a happy, fulfilled life and so I hope at some point you reach out for some professional help. I genuinely care about your mental wellness, and you seem to be suffering.
Anon
Dear OP,
You are not paranoid, and you do not need a mental health professional, just because antisemitism concerns you daily and security issues affect your life as a Jew. Notwithstanding Anon at 11:32’s position, there are millions of people all over the world who have identified the same issues and are taking constructive action to address them (ADL, Hillel, Secure Community Network, World Jewish Congress, the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, The Jewish Federation – not to mention the FBI/DOJ and Interpol).
You are not crazy. As a Jew, you are at greater risk. And there are things we can all do to keep you safer (education in the long term; safety planning in the short term).
Am Israel Chai.
Anon
Thank you. Not the OP but thank you.
Anon
OP here and I’m actually not Jewish, but thank you for this. Caring about antisemitism is not paranoid and I care deeply about the pain my Jewish friends are experiencing. That doesn’t mean I need mental health treatment – it means I’m human.
Anonymous
+1, the post at 11:32 is so off the mark.
Anon
If you genuinely care, that is not coming through at all.
Anon
Of course she doesn’t.
all over anon
Well, based on the risk assessments of the security services in my country, Jews are indeed in serious risk, and their activities are seriously curtailed by the officials inability to guarantee their safety (examples like public Hanukkah celebrations that could not take place outside as it has the last 20+ years, despite serious manpower in place)
brokentoe
These young people have had everything – consciously or not – framed for them for the last 8+ years as “us vs. them” and “victim vs. oppressor” without any shades of gray. Sadly, I’m not surprised by this poll.
Seventh Sister
FWIW, I think this is somewhat generational in that plenty of older people don’t necessarily view Jewish people as a subset within “white people” the way that some young people seem to see it.
Data Point: My parents are in the 65+ age bracket (early Boomers, Midwestern WASPs) and bless their hearts, they are *super* likely to mention to me if their new neighbor/acquaintance/classmate is Jewish because that is really unusual and different to them. They know I live in a city with a big Jewish community. My mom has a single Jewish friend from high school and she was a middle-class girl at a BIG public school in her state’s capital. It was A Whole Thing that my aunt’s live-in boyfriend was Jewish because they thought (probably incorrectly) that my little old Dust Bowl grandma would flip out about it.
Anon
You should trademark the term A Whole Thing (with caps)!
Seventh Sister
I could have a talk show! Right after Liz Lemon’s Dealbreakers.
Anon
Do they racialize Jews as other, or is it the religious difference? My mom’s midwestern family thought it was A Whole Thing for my mom, a Methodist, to marry a Catholic. I don’t think they had ever met someone who wasn’t Methodist, Baptist, or Southern Baptist.
Seventh Sister
For my parents, racialize Jews as other. For all of their flaws, they are pretty tolerant of various Christian denominations and there is rarely a fuss over who is Methodist or Baptist or Congregationalist (except that my Baptist relatives are a-holes but they’d be that way in any religion).
I don’t think my parents had met many Catholics before they moved to MD in the 1970s, but when I was a kid, they seemed to view them as misguided, slightly exotic Christians who would really like the simplicity of Being Protestant ™ if they gave it a chance.
Anon
Anyone have Yosemite vacation tips for a family with kids who are not normally outdoorsy or very fit? We’re thinking of visiting in the Spring by car.
anonshmanon
Mariposa grove is magnificent with the big sequoias, and more a stroll than a hike.
Anon
I have friends who went in mid/late May and there was still a LOT of snow with parts of the park still closed.
Anon
I would suggest doing a rock climbing day. You can hire a guide very easily (it’s on the main website) and do a lesson that will make the entire trip more memorable. You don’t need prior experience or any gear – they’ll teach you everything you need to know. Other good options are bouldering around Camp 4, throwing rocks in the Merced, and checking all the waterfalls off your list. Spring is tricky weatherwise, but you might be OK.
Anonymous
Start getting fit now! Go on a Christmas “hike” (walk in the woods somewhere). Go for after dinner walks. Tell the kids you are all in training for your adventure.
I did this over the fall- before my London vacation I want to be in better shape. So I started just walking most days. Dramatic improvement in fitness in a few months.
Explain you’ll have so many exciting things to do and see and you all need to be ready to walk and look at them.
Anon
They are requiring reservations again this year, so definitely look into that and if you need them/if so when to get them (I would assume they sell out). Depending on when in Spring it will still be chilly, especially early morning and evening. There might still be snow as another poster said so you may want waterproof hiking boots or snow boots comfortable enough to walk/hike in, even if it’s just generally wet on the ground but not actively raining/snowing. You’ll want to do one of the easy hikes in the valley with views of Half Dome for the most iconic experience. If calendars line up and you have time to kill in the area the Sugar Pine Train Moonlight Special is a fun evening activity with kids (also sells out).
anecdata
Spring weather can be VERY variable, so I’d have a plan for rainy/snowy days. The high country will still be snowed in likely; the valley floor should be clear. The main valley area is super accessible to different fitness levels (like many national parks) – look up the easy hikes in the visitor guide, and you’ll see that several are really flat, 1/2 mile walks on a paved path to a waterfall view.
There’s a free shuttle around the main loop to various trailheads.
Artsy kids might enjoy the Ansel Adams gallery (there’s also art in the main museum). A little weird, but I enjoyed waking through the cemetery and hypothesizing about what people’s lives were like!
“Day camping” for if one of your goals is to spend a lot of time outside, but not necessarily chugging through miles : bring as many creature comforts (chairs, cooler, sketchbooks, games, picnic stuff) as you like, and post up at one of the day-use only sites. Make it a “do whatever you want but the phrase ‘I’m bored’ is banned”. This also works well if you want to split up and eg. 1 parent runs a harder hike while the other stays at “camp”, then swap
JD
Can you start doing some family walks or hikes now? Just 30 minutes to start? Or encourage more playground time? Having a base level of fitness is more fun. Also, not a big deal, but it is ~4000 feet above sea level in the valley. If you’re from a coastal region, that might be enough to feel the altitude a little bit.
Anon
We went last year with people aged 2 to 77, with varied levels of mobility. Lower Yosemite was an easy place to wander around. The river was really fun to splash around in, but may still be too cold during the time you’re there. The higher points of the park will likely be closed (we were there in July and they’d just opened up Glacier Point Road the week prior). You can rent bikes to ride around the relatively flat valley.
Don’t have to be super fit to walks around an leisurely pace in one of the literally most astonishingly beautiful places on earth.
Anon
I have a younger sister with severe ADHD. Junior in high school, still working on feeling comfortable driving but has a permit. She is bright and very book smart, but even though my parents have been trying to get her meds that would help (and have found good doctors in their city), she still struggles with the non-academic parts of school. She is in high school and has done volunteering but the summer jobs she has tried out for weren’t really a good fit (camp counselor). She has a huge need for physical movement, so even sitting through high school classes with no recess or gym has been terribly difficult for her. They are not sure what is next after high school. I took a traditional college path and didn’t ever have this struggle. Most ADHD stuff is for boys and the mantra seems to be to enter a trade, but IDK how you figure this out for a girl who should go into a field that pays enough to live on (so not working in a day care or nurse’s aide) if she doesn’t go to college (or doesn’t go right away or does some mix of PT job + PT community college or local State U). I try to go running with her when I’m home (she can’t do high school sports because she needs all of her time to decompress and do homework, but runs recreationally), which she likes. Have you had any family or friend successes might be good food for thought for us? And are there counselors for this? In our area, people hire college counselors because the school is overwhelmed and I don’t know if there are non-college life-plan counselors out there.
Anon
If she’s a good student why can’t she go to college?
Anonymous
Yeah I don’t get this either? College has way more free time than high school. She won’t be in class all day every day. She can start every day with a run or even walk onto the team unless she’s at a huge school. Sounds like she might be great at lots of things!
Anon
+1. It seems like you’re pigeonholing her into a worse path that she hasn’t even indicated she wants?
Anon
Yeah, I’m really confused. If she doesn’t want to go to college, then that’s fine! It sounds like y’all are trying to figure out what to “do with” her instead of letting her determine her own path. Let her say what she wants to do and go from there?
Anon
Yeah, agreed. My husband has ADHD and went to college and grad school.
Anne-on
This. I’ve got ADHD which wasn’t diagosed until I was an adult and did just fine in college. In fact almost everyone I know with ADHD had a much easier time in college since there is so much more freedom to chose what you study and focus intently on your chosen ‘special interest’. There were also so many more supports in most colleges – colleges want to see their students graduate! I was able to use things like office hours, tutors, writing centers, career counselors, and a cheap therapist for the first time in my life – it was a HUGE level of support compared to my overcrowded and underfunded public high school.
Anon
Yeah it seems very premature to write off college. I have a cousin who has not been diagnosed but who we suspect has autism and/or ADHD and she has a LOT lot of social issues and problems adulting, but she went to a top 10 liberal arts college and graduated with a 4.0. College was much easier than the real world for her (she moved home after college and sort of failed to launch). But college – especially if you live in the dorms – is not the real world and kids are insulated from a lot of the need to perform basic adulting tasks.
Anon
I’m not an expert, but I am a college professor at a women’s college and there are many, many female students with ADHD (which expresses itself in a wide range of ways, of course). If she’s interested in college, there are places with supports where she can go and thrive. Smaller places will be able to help her think through her individual needs, and you’d want to get a team of people on board (health services, deans, and faculty) figuring out what will allow her to learn and grow.
That doesn’t answer you question, I realize, and I’m afraid I don’t know about non-college coaches/counselors. A therapist who specializes in ADHD, particularly in adolescents, would have some knowledge of how to support people through this moment, I suspect.
Anonymous
Medication should be the first step here.
Anon
Agreed wholeheartedly. Medication has literally been life-changing for me. Like OP’s sister, I was a good student (and went to grad school, ultimately), but required a lot of down time to manage all the things that went along with ADHD. I didn’t get diagnosed until I was in my 30s, and really wish that I had known earlier to get interventions and understand why my needs were different than others’.
I’d also add – to the extent that this is the tone that the family uses to discuss the little sister, I worry that it’s damaging. My family treated me like I was weird or something to be managed, and it did a number on my self image as I progressed into adulthood.
Anon
OP here — I totally get that. I’m typing a bit casually here because we’re all strangers, but we are all very gentle with her and she is very aware that how things are for her peers isn’t how things will be for her. To be honest, she’s nervous and is low-balling her future goals so as to not to “fail” to attain what she could do (but that would require more investigations and legwork and going out of everyone’s comfort zones). I want her to live at home and go to community college, but only if that is the best path she has available and I feel that we don’t have a handle on what various paths look like. It’s more “I can’t get into Ivies and am very nervous socially,” so she is defaulting to living at home and going to the community college she could walk to, which might be a really good idea, but even there, they want to know if you need vocational certificates or to take classes to transfer to a 4 year school. She doesn’t really know that piece.
Anonymous
This all sounds like a whole family with untreated anxiety.
JD
Respectfully, consider what you just above, It’s more “I can’t get into Ivies and am very nervous socially,” so she is defaulting to living at home and going to the community college she could walk to.
Most kids do not get into the Ivies. This board is weighted towards people with fancy degrees, but the majority of us have perfectly fine, successful lives from one of the thousands of other schools in the country. Or even, taking a gap year and going back slightly older. Most of us didn’t go to community college, although I don’t want to discount the value there. I only point out that your whole family sounds stuck on what’s possible for her. I’m sure she’s aware of this and intimidated even if you’re trying to be supportive.
I think you know this, but it really sounds like you’re all weighted to extremes. Either a kid can go to Harvard or she has to go to the local community college. In this case, I think a paid college counselor would be great. They can understand who she is, her grades/activities, and give realistic options. Maybe a smaller liberal arts where she’ll have a more personal experience. Or maybe a large public school would have more additional resources as long as she uses them. She can apply to different options, do campus visits. Maybe she can find a part time job to see what a gap year feels like.
Anon
OP said they’ve been trying to get her meds that would help.
That gave me the impression that it wasn’t going well with meds so far. The vast majority of people with ADHD can find effective medication, but there is a minority that don’t benefit from available medications and then it gets trickier. (I either don’t benefit or have contraindications, so I’ve had to go with some out of the box options and things like supplements that are not as effective.)
Anon
This. Meds are great if they work, but I’ve had an incredibly difficult time finding a medication that is effective. Now that I’ve found one that’s showing signs of being effective, it’s in very short supply and incredibly hard to find.
anon
Respectfully, I think you are wrongly equating trades with only suitable for men. Women can be operating engineers, electricians, etc. The women engineers at my company have amazing union jobs, no college loans, etc. But she also might like something like being an ultrasound technician, dental hygienist, etc. Those are well paying jobs requiring a two year degree where you are on your feet a lot.
Anon
Exactly. My daughter is enrolled in the auto mechanics program at her HS. Women don’t only have to ‘work at a day care’!
Anon
Love this. I will always wish that I had pushed to be able to take an auto mechanics class at my vo-tech combo HS.
Anon
Very book smart still sounds like college bound to me! Running daily could help with the need for physical movement, and college would accommodate that better than high school. I hate physical activity and even for me, college was much, much less sitting at a desk just because of less class time, more walking between classes, and more unstructured time. Definitely some majors and some career paths are more popular than others for physically active people. If she can handle the academics, I don’t see why she would consider becoming a nurse’s aid and not a nurse?
The State U may have a lot of support between advising, accommodations, the Learning Center, etc. If you never had this struggle, you may not have connected with those services much, but there are a lot of ADHD students in college and there may be professionals whose job largely revolves around supporting them through to graduation.
Anon
Two things: I don’t see why she can’t go to college. A lot of people with really severe ADHD succeed in college and in a wide variety of fields. Also, there’s much more downtime during the day in college so she could run / be active between classes in ways you can’t in high school.
Secondly, there’s no reason that she can’t go into a trade, even if its traditionally male. Women can be carpenters, electricians, plumbers, pipe fitters, etc.
Anon
I had a roommate with some pretty severe ADHD that she managed just fine with medication. If she didn’t take it there was a noticeable difference in her behavior but she was able to hold a high paying engineering job just fine. Women can definitely enter trades though if they want to, especially these days.
Anon
Have any of you asked her what SHE wants to do? If she is non-functioning on some level (I don’t see that from the OP, but just asking) is she receiving counseling and other supports? I’m confused why you are trying to make decisions for a legally competent person who should have agency over her life without any of her input. And going to community college while working a basic job and finding her way for a while is completely fine! Not everyone has a perfectly linear life path. But again, what does she want to do? What are her interests?
Anon
+1,000
Anon
Seriously! OP, butt out.
Anon
Could she enter a profession that requires a lot of physical activity? I’m thinking of arborist, landscape designer, physical therapist, mail delivery (walking route), physical education teacher, coaching, and so on.
Anonymous
She can go to college. In fact, lots of colleges are known for their ability to educate students with severe ADHD. I think the bigger question is what she wants to do as a career, and does she need to go to college for it? The people in my life that have successful careers and ADHD don’t have office butt-in-seat type jobs but I know for some it’s not a problem.
My sister has awful ADHD and is a physical therapist. She went to state college on a scholarship and grad school. My daughter’s piano teacher has really bad ADHD. She’s a pilot (mostly charters) that teaches piano on the side.
Anon
I was just coming here to say your first sentence or so. I had a colleague with a child with severe ADHD and I remember him going to a college that specifically focused on helping ADHD students excel. Maybe look around for the schools that do that and/or have really robust support programs in place?
Nesprin
If she has an IEP those typically transfer easily to most state schools. If she doesn’t have an IEP, she needs one yesterday.
Anon
I’m concerned about this line of thinking, honestly. It sounds like your family is deciding what to “do with” your sister, who is a functioning person, and should be supported in making decisions that are right for her. Her diagnosis does not mean that she can’t be successful and lead a full and happy life.
I am a woman with ADHD, and while I was diagnosed later in life, I did well in school, went to college and a graduate program, and have a fulfilling and lucrative career (which she could also do whether she goes to college or learns a trade, depending on her interests). It was harder than it needed to be because I didn’t know what supports I needed, and I was not properly medicated. It sounds like she isn’t on medication, which should be the first step here. Medication was life-changing for me, and has made things I struggled with earlier in life much easier. And, as others have pointed out, colleges have many more supports now than when I went almost 20 years ago.
Anonymous
+1 – your family sounds ableist.
There was a post here a while ago on non-desk jobs that might be good – I always think occupational or physical therapy would be excellent careers, especially focused on kids. Growing field, generally well paid. And you do need a lot more book learning than in the past.
Anon
+ a million. OP, it sounds like you really care about your sister, but you need to take a big breath and a step back.
Anon
OP here. I think my parents are concerned that some neighbors’ kids have boomeranged back from colleges for various reasons (some ADHD, some “executive functioning” issues were it wasn’t academics that was the problem but doing things like not dropping classes and taking zeroes, not fitting in, etc.). I know that my sister would struggle in a dorm with a roommate — she needs her space and my parents see a lot of schools where it would be hard to guarantee a single on campus (no driving, no apartment to maintain) for all 4 years. She is nervous about that aspect and thinks that if she could master city driving, the 30 minute drive to Local State U (which she likes from summer day camps there) would let her live at home in her own room. Because of COVID, she never got to do away school trips so she has a lot less comfort with being away from home than I did. Sorority rush isn’t for her, but being in a smaller groups would be great for her, so I mentioned service fraternities like APO and she seemed to like the idea of that.
She is on ADHD meds, and my parents/her doctor did a DNA test recently after so much trial and error and it seems that many ADHD meds won’t work well on her and what she’s on now is marginal at best. She’s a little better but I see her stimming all the time and she does things like goes to church but does so much better if she has a “job” during the service so she gets to move about (like being crucifer).
It’s also hard for them because she and they don’t know what she wants to do as an adult to know what to pursue for education. Like I wanted to be an accountant but would have also been OK cutting and styling hair and did a lot of hair in high school and could have run my own shop had college not been on the table. My sister isn’t like that. She likes to help people and likes to volunteer and loves to do things like stream cleanups.
I feel like a lot of schools deal with both ends of the spectrum by expecting parents to outsource and then telling everyone else to use the common application and go to the best state college they get into. That isn’t wrong, but if you’re not vanilla, it seems like there isn’t a lot that the counselors know of to refer you to.
Anonymous
Honestly she sounds super normal and the rest of you sound excessively anxious
Anon
Right?? I hope the little sister is able to free herself from this orbit.
Anon
+1
Y’all need to stop projecting your anxiety about what you think she can and can’t do and what she will and won’t like. She can and should be forming these opinions and seeking out experiences to see how they fit on her INCLUDING things that are uncomfortable or difficult. We all had to do that growing up. It’s exactly that, part of growing up.
I have a disability. I have to ask for accommodations sometimes. I got everything I asked for at a large land-grant state university without any issues and that was 20+ years ago. Schools have sooooo many more resources for students who need accommodations now. It’s so limiting to her for people to be putting these restrictions on her before she has a chance to figure it out on her own. She can absolutely go to college if she wants to and frankly what YOU want her to do is irrelevant so I hope you aren’t saying that to her . Maybe her college experience will look a little different than yours, that’s okay! Maybe she will have some bumps along the way. Also okay!
Seriously. Stop with the she can’t and the she won’t be able to $hit.
Anon
+1
Anon
Also, if you need a single room because of a disability accommodation, a college is required to provide one for you! Please educate yourself before making statements that are not true. The need for a single room should not limit her college choice in any way!
anon
So a student with a medical need is in a very different position in terms of getting single housing on campus. I would really not let that be a major driver of your sister’s college choice. It does sound like your sister is trapped a bit in “I can’t” thinking and unfortunately it sounds like you guys might be reinforcing that. Start with what she would like to do and be well-suited to, and work back from there to a postsecondary option that will help her get there.
Kids with special needs get a LOT of messaging about what they can’t do – you have to work hard to counteract that. Yes, her challenges are real and being polyannish doesn’t help, but all of the thinking you’re describing her (both hers and yours) is fixated on all the reasons why a traditional college experience won’t work. I encourage you guys to take a step back and reapproach this from a more positive orientation.
Anon
Yeah get that accommodation as early as possible. It’s so, so key.
Anon
Agree. Also, I know this type of trajectory thinking is our culture, and you clearly have the best intentions of wanting her on the right path, but not being able to map out your entire life as a junior in high school is actually OK! Maybe she’d like some classes in different areas that can include vocations like cooking – our community colleges offer those at a introductory to a fairly high level, and if your family is willing to pay for them could be good options.
JD
Also… a counter view. Having a roommate freshman is supposed to be challenging and difficult for the vast number of modern kids who never shared a room. Some people make their best friends and have a person who drags the introverts to events. Many neurotypical kids struggle a little, but kids/proto-adults don’t need a soft landing on everything.
Anon
I’m getting the impression that your parents are very protective of your sister. Not a bad thing, but potentially limiting here. It’s not unusual to have conflicts with your college roommate. It’s not unusual to be anxious about being away from home for the first time. With your sister’s ADHD she may struggle more than a “vanilla” kid, but colleges now have loads more supports for students than they did even 10, 15 years ago. And the concept of neurodiversity is much more widely known/understood now.
You wrote: “She likes to help people and likes to volunteer and loves to do things like stream cleanups.” I can think of a half-dozen career paths that could tap into that. Emergency management, ecology, climate science, wildlife biology, wilderness education, forestry. She has options and she’s SO young.
joan wilder
I wonder if Americorps after high school is an option with a placement that involves outdoors or other things that are very “doing” focused. It could open up a lot of later options for her, with or without college.
Anon
Interesting idea!
Anon
Love this idea.
I agree with prior posters that you all are too worried about this. She can apply to college and visit campuses and see what feels like a good fit. She can go and work out her our success strategies. She might fail. That’s ok. She is not your problem to solve. I think you all need individual and family therapy.
There are many jobs or paths for her. I have adhd and use a combo of strenuous exercise and meds to be successful in my law job. I am very happy having constant deadlines – it works with how my brain works. She likely has lots of traits and skills that can make her successful snd happy in the right career. She just needs to learn how she likes to work and not count herself out because of whatever high school issues she has.
Anon
One more thing – I’m the 2:56 anon- I’m an older sister who had similar thoughts about my sister who had a more tumultuous dating experience than me, who met my spouse early in college. My therapist told me directly that it was none of my business and that I should do my own work as to figure out why I felt like I needed to help her in this area of her life. I’ve thought about that session a lot since.
Also, you can probably be a big help to your sister by telling your parents to back off and reminding them that you are different people. As far as I know, every HS junior is under a ton of pressure and has very very little certainty about life after HS. Be the voice of reason.
And finally, when i was a junior I thought I wanted a certain career path. I tried that field in my first few years of college and switched to something much better. All of this is normal growing up stuff.
Anonymous
Respectfully, it sounds like there is more than “just” (not downplaying it) ADHD at play here.
Anon
+1
anecdata
Two alternatives to “college counselors” that can help think through more complex situations are an occupational therapist (who specialize in helping people develop strategies to be successful in work/school) and if the school has “transition services”. Both should be accessible through most public school districts through an IEP (quality and practical accessibility vary a lot, but might help as a starting point for what to ask for at least!)
Anon
You’re talking about her like she’s AuDHD more than “just” ADHD. Is she also autistic?
The supports in higher ed are different from the supports in K12. Whether it’s a SLAC that holds everybody’s hand or a state school with well funded academic support services, it may help to learn about how higher ed helps “not vanilla” students build on their book smarts. It’s generally easier to get by on book smarts in higher ed vs. K12 (and then harder again in post-secondary).
Many college students don’t know what they want to be when they grow up! But if she’s good with academics and uses gen ed classes to explore interests and majors, a college degree may still open up doors for her, right?
If medications aren’t working well, driving with ADHD isn’t necessarily safe. I “need my own space,” but a roommate was still more doable than driving (and it wasn’t hard to get a single after first year). These days she may be able to get a single as an accommodation. Living on campus can be a good thing, especially for non-drivers still building independence.
Anon
OP here. My mother thought that that was a possibility but the doctors have said that my sister doesn’t meet the definitions. I have wondered that also but she has never qualified enough to get referred for more services. Maybe that isn’t a good diagnosis, like how many women get ADHD diagnosed until they are adults. IDK if that is true here but (forgive me because there is a lightbulb going off for me) it does make everyone’s worry that the way are going to get this wrong for her make a bit more sense. In that case OMG I feel at a total loss. I’m home for Christmas and it’s hanging heavy in the house and “the future” is a topic at meals and my sister somewhat hopelessly compares herself to me. I feel so bad for her — it isn’t fair and I feel that my presence alone is a bad reminder of our differences.
Anon
There’s been a problem historically with (a) recognizing autism in women, (b) recognizing autism in people who also have ADHD. But sometimes there’s something else like NVLD that not all doctors are familiar with. Anyway even without a Dx, maybe AuDHD resources would be helpful (especially if you’re looking for stories from people who did figure things out and how that happened).
Anon
Concur that this level of concern and involvement seems much more appropriate for an autistic child than one with ADHD. And your description of her does not align with “typical” ADHD. Has she been to whomever is the preeminent autism specialist in your area?
Also, she’s the second child. Your parents DO realize that she’s not going to be anything like you and will be her own person with her own gifts and talents and that second children typically do things at a more relaxed pace than overachieving first-borns?
Anon
Dropping classes, not knowing what you want to do for a career, etc are all COMPLETELY NORMAL THINGS for everyone. You all need to chill.
Anon
THIS.
anecdata
To clarify, I think OP was saying other kids they know have intended to drop a class but not actually done it (before the school’s drop deadline).. so they get to the end of the term, haven’t shown up to the class or done any of the work, and they end up with a failed class on their transcript. Part of being a young adult is figuring out how to recover from serious mistakes like that, but it is a serious mistake, not the totally normal, I-tried-this-class-and-decided-to-drop-it situation
Cora
I think my family / social group is a lot like your, and they struggle in general with kids who need a little longer to figure their life out. Sure, some kids get a degree in accounting and immediately start working at a Big 4 and that’s that. But its also fine for kids to change their major twice and try different jobs. I think my social group puts a lot of unnecessary pressure on the latter group of kids, when in reality we should recognize that we’re lucky enough to be able to give young adults the freedom to figure out their life, and it really will be okay if its not that straightforward.
Anonymous
Why on earth isn’t your sister looking at small private colleges? There are many, many small liberal arts colleges all over the country that will give plenty of merit aid to good students, guarantee on-campus housing for four years, and will bend over backwards to ensure that their students are supported academically and in their career search. A smart kid with ADHD is going to be crushed, absolutely crushed, by a boring repetitive job that doesn’t use her brain.
If she goes to public school then she should not rely on the school counselors to help with the college search. You or your parents can hire a private college advisor to help her come up with a list of schools that might be a good fit, and to help her manage the application process. In my MCOL city this service only costs around $500 and is well worth it, especially for kids with special needs. You can often find these people through the parents of recent high school graduates or through therapists or other health care providers who work with kids with ADHD.
JD
She could take a gap year. There are professional careers that have a high degree of movement if she can get support through the schooling, nursing/travel nursing ($$), ecology (less $ but exotic locales), forest ranger (less $), engineering in manufacturing/maintenance, PE teacher, physical therapist, field geologist, etc). College courses have more staggered timelines so she should have plenty of time to work out. Your family can help her think through supportive resources at a college. Or, she could live at home and go to a local college/community college for 1-2 years to make sure she has her feet on the ground.
A hired college counselor is supposed to be able to find the right fit for a kid, not just the fanciest school they can get into. There are also paid ADHD coaches out there, but she’d need to find a good match. If your parents have a job aide like Lyra, she might qualify for online coaching/therapy sessions to work on this as she transitions into adulthood.
Anon
Don’t most people take a gap year with a plan for what comes next though? Like they got into and deferred college at a certain place, often with acceptance to a school for certain majors, etc?
JD
She could do both. Apply and ask to defer or have a plan to apply over the gap year (although check if she’s eligible for financial aid. Maybe a gap year isn’t right for her, but the family is considering she might not do any higher education at all. Now’s the time to brainstorm.
Anon
No?
Anon
I was diagnosed with ADHD while attending an Ivy so…I think there’s a few issues here.
Does she want to pursue college? 2 year, 4 year? Does she prefer a trade? Military? All are valid paths. All are paths women with ADHD can and do pursue.
Grand Canyon advice?
Seeking advice from folks who’ve done the Grand Canyon. I’ve never spent any time in the Southwest, love to day hike but will be a bit limited a bit on distance for this trip because my spouse has to wear our then-10 month old in the hiking carrier. If we have 5-7 days, is flying into Phoenix–> Flagstaff–> Grand Canyon fun and worthwhile? If we were going sans kiddo, I’d probably be open to the road trip from Vegas, but he isn’t always great in the car. Would anyone suggest a different National Park out west for a family interested in day hiking and experiencing the southwest for the first time?
Anonymous
The Grand Canyon is amazing and well worth seeing; it is a bit of a schlep from Phoneix but 5-7 days is plenty. I would try to stay inside the park and enjoy the rim trail as well as short hikes into the canyon. If you aren’t sold on the GC, there are tons of great hikes and views south of there. Sedona is an obvious destination but there’s also a lot around Flagstaff. When are you going? It gets cooler at higher altitudes, so that is something to consider. Right in Phoenix, the desert botanical garden is lovely.
There are so many great parks – all of the ones in Utah are amazing. I can’t remember if any are close to an airport. You could also fly to ABQ and visit Santa Fe and Taos – SF is only about an hour from ABQ. You really can’t go wrong.
JD
Question, has the baby been in and enjoyed the carrier much? I recall our 10-month to toddler kid had very mixed opinions on it, depending on the day. One memorable hike was during a heat wave (>100oF temps) under pine trees on a simple loop. Kiddo cried the entire time, then cried out of the carrier, refused water, refused snacks, refused to have the sun shield up, refused to wear a hat, wanted to hang out with other kids on the trail, but we didn’t want to hang out with that big family group. Fun times. We do enjoy laughing at the pictures now.
You probably need to get some family hikes in to figure out how your kid does before planning any significant hike.
Anon
+1 the GC will not be much fun if your child won’t stay in the back pack, because you will be chasing them trying to keep them away from the edge. Also, I live in the SW and absolutely LOVE the GC but you really only need like 2 days at the GC. I always recommend staying overnight so you can see the sunset and get up early for the sunrist (DEFINITELY worth it).
I love hiking, it’s my favorite hobby, but when my kids were young I had to put that on the back burner as it is very hard to do with them so young. Honestly, beach vacations were the best choice when they were this young.
Anonymous
I love the Grand Canyon and think it would be a great place to start. For the rim trail, it’s a pretty flat hike along the rim. It’s a great option because there is also a free bus that makes multiple stops along the way (so you can do a mix of hiking/riding if you’re tired). I highly recommend staying at the El Tovar hotel which is right on the rim – you’ll be able to enjoy really easy flat hikes right outside your door. We did 3 days in the actual park and thought that was plenty so with 5-7 days you could pair it with another stop.
Anonymous
Maybe fly into Vegas and go to st george/cedar city area in Utah a couple hours away. zion and bryce are both lovely and cedar city is a nice little town that would be a good base to explore the area from each day
Anon
Anyone want to tell me what you get out of your Apple Watch? My cardiologist recommended it because of how it can detect atrial fibrillation, which is a new thing I have to monitor. Not looking for a new diagnosis, FYI. This is a real thing.
So far I’ve enjoyed the sleep monitoring, and I’m supposed to be getting more sleep anyway to prevent arrhythmia.
Wondering what else I should be getting out of it. It’s not picking up my 20+ minutes of dog walking as exercise on the “rings” – I get some credit but not all.
Anonymous
Walking only gets picked up as exercise after a certain amount of time (which is longer than a 20 minute stroll) or if you reach a certain level of exertion/heart rate. If would probably take this to mean your dog walking is not the workout you think it is.
Anon
Or you can start an “outdoor walk” activity when you walk the dog and it will start to learn.
anon
When I walk my dog, I use the fitness app to start an outdoor walk, and then it captures the whole thing.
Anon
Ohhhhhh thank you.
The cardiologist advised just strolling for now, not a high cardio type workout.
Anon
I use mine for finding my phone ALL the time. And for a very specific 2-factor authentication I have to do regularly at work – I can approve on my wrist rather than getting out and unlocking my phone. Magic!
Other than that, I like the weather app.
Anon
Ha! I’ve already used it to find my phone several times and I just got it Sunday. :)
Anon
I use mine for a wide variety of tasks in addition to tracking my exercise. Just off the top of my head: (1) I use the wallet function every workday for the Metro. I also use it for Apple Pay. (2) I use it for reminders and timers. (3) I use it for directions so I do not have to look at my phone (works walking and driving). (4) I use it so I do not have to constantly check my phone for messages/calls/Teams notifications. If I get something my wrist will buzz. Oddly it made me spend less time on my phone because I am not constantly checking for urgent messages.
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Anonymous
I said something to a friend that I thought was uncontroversial but apparently I was wrong, and now she has repeated my comment to other people who are all piling up. Holy high school. I’m not sure if there’s anything I can do to deflect when people ask me about it? There’s kind of a long background on the comment.
I’m recently engaged and I will be covering the cost of the wedding and honeymoon from my personal savings; I’ve earmarked $30k for each, most of the savings is from before I even met fiance (honeymoon fund opened when I started babysitting at 12 years old, I’ve always envisioned an amazing romantic trip). Fiance won’t be able to help. We’re at odds about the wedding. Fiance wants a huge wedding with his big family – he has dozens of first cousins – and basically everyone he’s ever met in life. I have 20 guests. I hate being the center of attention, I hate crowds and loud places, but I want him to have the wedding he wants with the people he loves. I’m willing to compromise to include family up to first cousins (with SOs), but I’m not willing to include people like his second grade teacher who he hasn’t seen since then but his parents still send her a Christmas card. We’ve price shopped, and the lowest cost options for his full guest list are $50k. Fiance wants to use the honeymoon fund to cover the cost, and thinks $10k is still enough for a honeymoon.
I was talking to a close friend about all this. I said something like, I don’t want to give up the once in a lifetime trip I’ve been saving for since I was 12 to pay to entertain dozens of strangers. Friend thinks that’s selfish, I should want to spend more on other people than on myself, it’s cruel to make fiance cut people from his guest list just so I can have an extra fancy vacation, and we’re about to get married so it’s unfair of me to think of this as “my” money he should get a say in how it’s spent. She’s told all of fiancé’s friends and now they’re all calling me selfish too. Any attempt to clarify just seems to dig me deeper (ie, me: yeah I’m not paying for his second grade teacher. them: but Mrs. Smith is so great and she might not be around much longer! Me: when was the last time you visited Mrs. Smith, maybe I can come with you so I can meet her and then she won’t be a stranger. Them: that’s not the point and you know it). I’ve asked fiance to talk to them and he says he has but the comments haven’t stopped. Anything I can do?
Peloton
Well, your friend is a toxic gossip and can’t be trusted, so step one is to cut her out of your life. That’ll help with the head count, too, ha.
Beyond that, the way your fiancé and you are discussing this doesn’t really sound like “people who are ready for a healthy, happy marriage” to me. Both of you seem to think that only your opinion matters and are kind of disrespectful of the other person’s opinion. There’s no “what’s best for us as a unit” tone to your question. (No shame on that, most people who are getting married have some work to do!). Can you guys use this as a jumping off point for “how we’re going to find common ground while married”? Premarital counseling could help with that, although I think a calm discussion with a bottle of wine about how we want to handle places where we disagree can do the same thing if you’re mature enough.
Peloton
Let me refine that slightly, since I think I attributed some of the comments from your friend to your fiancé, and I didn’t give you enough credit for wanting your fiancé’s desires to be accommodated.
Your friend group is immature, and you need to talk to your fiancé, and only your fiancé, about decisions the two of you will be making as a couple. Present a united front. I stand by my suggestion for premarital counseling or at least an intentional conversation directly on that topic.
Anon
Don’t get married. And get new friends.
Anon
Well, wow, clearly never speak to that friend again!
I think this is one you just ride out.
It sounds like maybe there’s a class element at play here, too? He doesn’t have money to contribute and comes from a giant family (which is rare for well-off Americans)? I can’t see anyone I’m friends with getting worked up about what you’ve described, but I can absolutely imagine some of my husband’s friends and family from his tiny, rural hometown getting upset.
I think it’s also important that YOU get the wedding you want. I’m not advocating to be a bridezilla, but if you hate crowds and being the center of attention, then yes, the guest list has some middle ground limits!
I personally can’t imagine spending $30k on a vacation – that’s the average annual income of someone without a college degree! – but I do think this is something y’all need to figure out stat because it reflects how you’ll deal with money as a couple. Have you had all the money conversations?
Anne-on
I’d stop talking about this to friends immediately, everyone will have an opinion and it isn’t their money (or their wedding!) so it really doesn’t matter what they think. Also get used to ignoring people’s opinions – there will be so many people waiting and eager to tell you all about how you’re doing it wrong – you should have spent less on a wedding and saved for a house! you should have spent more on a wedding and taken out loans for a house! you should get pregnant immediately! you should wait! (etc.).
Also this is definitely a situation where there isn’t a ‘right’ answer, there is only an answer that is right for you both as a couple. Can you have a luxurious vacation for $10k? Yup! Can you also have a lovely wedding for $30k? Yup! It’s more important that you and your fiance get on the same page about this – a counselor will likely help. There will be a LOT of future expenses where there isn’t one ‘right’ answer (how much should you spend on a house vs. retirement contributions, how much is it reasonable to spend for vacations, how much should you save for your kid’s college fund vs. your own retirement) and the sooner you can figure out how to discuss those the better.
JD
For any “friend” who brings it up, say this is a personal matter and you’re not going to discuss it further. Change the topic and be polite. This can feel awkward, but they should feel awkward. It’s none of their business. This is one reason people say not to discuss finances with others. People get weird. For the original friend, I think you should mention that you’re hurt she shared this further, and you’re feeling piled on about a personal matter. Ask her how she would feel if you shared a personal conversation about her.
For the actual planning, you both need to figure out how to compromise. I think you’re already being reasonable. I don’t think you should hold money over him… but you are providing all the funds. I agree it’s reasonable to hold firm on wanting a big honeymoon when you’ve saved up for it, or even breaking it down into several trips across that year.
Could you brainstorm a little more? Have a mid-sized, family wedding in a further city, and have (ie pay for) his parents to hold a backyard celebration in his hometown. You’d have to be careful what to call the celebration since you wouldn’t want to use it for gifts. Maybe it could be called an engagement party ahead of the wedding, and be lower cost (taco truck/BBQ, etc versus formal dinner).
JD
Actually I’m seeing it’s bad etiquette to have an engagement party with guests not invited to the wedding. Still, maybe his parents could host just a gathering to meet the new couple, and emphasize no gifts. (I know that’s rude to put on invites, but you’re navigating difficult waters anyway. In for a penny right). You shouldn’t have to have a huge wedding, if one person really hates crowds. The ideas about couples counseling above make a lot of sense.
Anon
For the suggestion of what to say to the original friend, I can almost guarantee that wouldn’t be taken well and will cause more drama. She needs to just avoid this topic altogether with her.
anonshmanon
I see two things here that are potential red flags. You and your husband should decide over this wedding, and I don’t understand what the friend’s role is here. Is it a mutual close friend, your fiance’s close friend? Why are they trying to bully you into something on behalf of your fiance? You have the full context that we don’t have, but will this be a recurring feature of your marriage – decisions that should be a discussion of you and your husband are turned into a referendum for friends and family?
Putting aside that it is ‘your money’, it is definitely as much your wedding+honeymoon as it is your fiance’s. And it’s reasonable to expect some give and take, both sides compromise a little to get the best outcome. The current demand means that he needs to compromise not at all on his guest list, while you need to compromise on both the wedding you would find enjoyable and the honeymoon that you dreamed of since before you met him. That’s nowhere near equal.
Lastly, if most of the strangers are of the former teachers and neighbors variety and are mainly local, you could borrow a European tradition and have a separate party on the eve/afternoon of the wedding. This one is typically very low key (backyard, church basement type of thing), and a drop-by affair just one step up from a potluck. It’s open to acquaintances, parents of schoolmates, pals from the bowling club, church friends, and perhaps even work colleagues. No formal dress is required, no gifts or RSVPs, and it’s an opportunity for all those people who wish you well, to stop by and raise a glass for you, while you have no interest to pay for them at your reception (and they are not dying to get you a gift either).
Anonymous
Stop planning a wedding with the man who feels entitled to spend your money for you and won’t stick up for you against his friends.
Stop saving all your money for a honeymoon and get out there and book a fabulous trip by yourself. Fly to Singapore, see Malaysia, go to Bali.
This relationship isn’t it.
Senior Attorney
Wow, this is actually my impulse, too.
I hate to rain on your parade but this is super concerning. I hate to see you starting your married life by selling out your lifelong dream of a fabulous trip, and I hate to see you marrying somebody who would let you do that.
But at the very least, stop discussing any of this with anybody but your fiance.
BeenThatGuy
100% this
anon
+1. Not saying this is you, but my ex-fiance could not agree on what kind of wedding to have and we ultimately broke things off. Not because of the wedding per se, but because it revealed all of the underlying issues that we had that made us realize we were not compatible over the long haul.
Ses
Yeah, I’m almost never in the dtmfa chorus, but I’d be delaying this wedding.
Yeah I know you’re supposed to share everything when you’re married, but when one of you worked and saved for years and years and the other feels entitled to the savings and to make no compromise – this is how things will always be.
God I wish someone had said that to me when I was planning my first marriage.
Anon
Your finance needs to come up with the $20k if he wants the larger wedding. He doesn’t get to use your savings for it. That is so entitled! Why are you marrying him again? You need to get on the same page about money before you walk down the aisle.
NYNY
I just hope you use some of that $$$ for a pre-nup, because your fiance sounds like he already thinks your money is his money and he isn’t bringing any to the table.
anon
If your husband wants a huge wedding, *he* should have been saving to pay for it. He’s out of line.
anon
I agree with everyone else that counseling would be good here and that he should contribute financially to the wedding. But…. the level of pressure you’re putting on this trip is concerning. Trips often go disastrously wrong! You may get food poisoning, you may get COVID, the airline could lose your luggage, the hotel could put you in a noisy/smelly/dirty room, you could get show up at a restaurant and find that it’s run out of your dream dish. And that’s not even accounting for your husband who has just spent the past two months arguing with you over a guest list and might not be that into you after many so arguments. I think travel is awesome if everyone has the right attitude and realistic expectations. If you are looking for a months-long adventure with highs and lows and lots of new experiences, then please totally disregard this! But if you think the honeymoon has to be so exceptional that it’s the highlight of your lifetime and worth 15 years of sacrifice, then I am worried for your sake that this won’t pan out.
Anon
Yes, this!! Our honeymoon (which was a big splurge for us at the time, although nowhere near $30k) had no major disasters and I remember it fondly, but we’ve since had much nicer trips as we’ve become more financially secure. I think that is pretty typical for people who get married before midlife because it’s just the nature of life that you have way more money (hopefully!) in your 50s and 60s than in your 20s and 30s. I completely agree this is waaaaay too much pressure to put on a single trip, especially in the Covid era when there’s a pretty significant chance you’ll get sick on the trip. The odds this trip – or any trip – goes off without a single hitch are low, and I think you are setting yourself up for misery by investing so many years of savings in a single experience.
Also while I understand why some people are annoyed at your finance for deciding how to spend “your” money, I also think it’s a little weird that you’ve unilaterally set the budgets for both the wedding and honeymoon. I understand you saved this money alone but if you’re getting married you’re going to be moving forward with shared finances and it seems to me that this should be to some degree a joint decision. My husband and I set our wedding and honeymoon budgets jointly (and our wedding cost twice what our honeymoon did, even though we love to travel and our wedding was pretty small).
Anon
Good point! I stepped on a bee on our patio the second day…that made touring significantly less enjoyable!
Anonymous
I’m more interested in the $30,000 honeymoon. Holy cow!
NaoNao
First or business class seats are usually about 100 a flying hour (or more) so we’re looking at $1000 each if they go to Europe, and could be even higher if they go to Asia from the US. A five star hotel for 10 days could be as much as 1000 a night, plus expenses (taxes, resort fees, deposit)–there’s 15k right there more or less. Five star meals for 10 days could be 300 a day or more easily. Then if she wants to do shopping, special tours, etc. I can guess it’s more “I have the money to do darn near ANYTHING I want on this trip” rather than planning a trip that’s actually going to cost that much.
PDX Atty
Hey gang! I am sure this has been asked before but before I do extensive searching: what should I wear for 1 week in Italy in April? 3 days in Rome, 1 day in Florence and 5 days in Venice. A lot of walking; group includes 3 children ages 7 and under so I expect some parts of days will also be spent in parks or the like if available. Do not expect fancy dinners but there will be parades in Rome (birthday of Rome) and feast of St. Mark & Liberation Day in Florence, if that impacts any decisions. THANKS!
JD
Business casual (lower end that allows jeans) or elevated weekend looks from your existing wardrobe with comfortable shoes. Black is always in style. Europeans in big cities dress more stylishly. If you avoid tshirts with graphics and workout clothes, you’ll be fine. Let the kids wear whatever, although again European kids in those cities dress really well. Bring hats that aren’t baseball hats. Dress in layers as weather can be quite variable that time of year. Also have rainy day options.
Cat
Avoid athleisure. Cute street sneakers with jeans or dresses are 100% the right call.
Senior Attorney
+1 and also +1 to layers because you could have four seasons of weather in the same week.
Anonymous
I spent 10 days in Italy with 3 pairs of shoes – black leather fashion/comfort sneakers, rubber rainboots that look like regular boots, and grey Gentle Soles sandals with an ankle strap. It went well.
My best outfit pick was a knitted sleeveless maxi dress plus cardigan from Peruvian Connection. It traveled really well, was perfect for the weather, and suited many occasions.
Anon
People will know you’re a tourist because you’ll be sightseeing and doing tourist activities during the day instead of working, even before you open your mouth and speak English. Don’t feel the need to dress stylishly. Dress for comfort and lots of walking. I can easily walk 20K steps in Italy whereas I’m hitting 5K on a typical day here without any gym time. Echoing wear layers. Avoid flip flops or slides in public (that’s house wear, not public wear).