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Updated: Mar 1, 2022 355 Comments · by

Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Heritage Cashmere Flare-Sleeve Sweater

The Personal Shopper (TPS)

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A woman with long black hair wearing an olive green sweater with a cream colored utility jacket draped over her shoulders and light brown pants

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Maybe it’s the slow march towards more casual workplaces, but I’ve seen more chunky knits in the office in the last few months than I have in the last decade. If you’re ready to hop on the chunky sweater train, I love the look of this olive cashmere turtleneck from Banana Republic’s Heritage collection.

For ideas on how to style knits like these, I love this post from Jean at Extra Petite. I’d probably wear this sweater French-tucked into a pair of high-waisted pants with a pair of loafers.

The sweater is $250 at Banana Republic and comes in sizes XXS–XXL. It's also available in “South Shore sand.”

Looking for something more affordable? Try this Club Monaco sweater (on sale for $104) or this sweater from En Saison ($88). For plus sizes, this sweater from Sanctuary (1X–3X) is on sale for $57; this Estelle sweater (1X–4X) is $109.

This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!

Sales of note for 9.16.24

Sales of note for 9.16.24

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About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Anon

    For what it’s worth, I think that both the belt that one cannot see and the bra tuck (both as recommended at the Extra Petite link in today’s post work very well, at least for petite people.

    • anon

      Everything in her post looks great, but I can’t help thinking how fussy it would be in real life. I would constantly be rearranging myself. There is a reason why I didn’t do well with the belted cardigan look in the mid-aughts!

      • Anon

        Exactly. Most of these “tricks” are for Instagram pictures or a quick trip. There is no way that tucking a sweater into your bra is sustainable for a full work day. It will feel uncomfortable and look awkward.

        • Monday

          I agree, these style tricks just don’t seem practical at all. Anyone seen the TikTok tip of bringing the ends of your shirt through your belt loops, in opposite directions, and tying in a knot?

        • Anon

          Depends on the sweater, the bra, the wearer. I do it regularly and I barely notice it.

        • Coach Laura

          Yes, I’ve tried these tucks and belts and feel like they’re only going to work if you don’t, you know – move or sit down or walk. And when I do a tuck it only works as long as I suck in my stomach. If I breathe normally, it looks like I’ve tucked a volleyball into the sweater. So maybe it’s better on people who are thin?

    • Anonymous

      I can use petite size tops and blazers (high waist, smaller bones) but would not do most of those, especially not the bra tuck. Why oh why would you want a chunky sweater under the bra band?! Would destroy my bras and be massively uncomfortable.

  2. Anonymous

    Paging Buffalo traveller from yesterdays thread: suggesting Pearl Street for lunch! Should be near the stadium.

  3. anon

    It’s March! We made it through February! In honor of this unseasonably warm day in my area, I am wearing a bubblegum pink t-shirt, ivory cardigan, navy ankle pants, and loafers. First time since early November that the loafers are making it out of the shoebox. This won’t last, but I’m taking whatever victory I can get.

    • Cb

      Well done! We had a gorgeous day on Sunday and it is cold but bright today, and I’ll take it. Day 4 of our heating being out and my teeth started chattering, so I’ve relocated to the local library for the afternoon and it’s toasty warm in here and the work tables are enormous. Nice for a change of scene.

    • pugsnbourbon

      We have a couple nice days in the forecast and even Saturday looks good. I think I’m going to get a pedicure.

    • Anon

      Help a person who has lost all sense of fashion. Socks with the loafers? If so, can you describe (sadly: in minute detail)? No-show? Ankle-length? Bold or witty pattern? I cannot figure out cold-weather socks in a world where pants are at best ankle-revealing.

      • Anonymous

        I do not attempt socks with loafers, as a non-trendy person. Perhaps some really stylish people can pull it off, but I cannot. And I despise the socks that purportedly do not show with loafers– they just fall off my heel and end up crumpled at the bottom of my shoe.

        • Anon

          That feeling of the little sock sliding down the heel, then bunching up under the arch of the foot is worse than nails on a chalkboard to me. It makes me ragey. It’s up there with getting the ends of my sleeves wet when I wash my hand/face/dishes.

      • Anonymous

        I think the stylish way to wear socks with loafers is to really commit and ensure your socks are a legit part of your outfit; they’re chosen to add to the overall look, not merely to keep you warm. I don’t have those genes, so I don’t wear loafers (or any other low-vamp shoes) when it’s cold enough to need socks.

        • Anon

          Don’t you need to wear socks with them? I thought that feet + loafers was sort of a louche rich person casual look. Yes? No? Maybe it doesn’t matter b/c it’s 2022?

    • Anonymous

      I am annoyed by the unseasonably warm weather. I was planning to take my daughter skiing this weekend and it is going to be 85 degrees. I haven’t gotten to wear any of my cozy sweaters this winter. I didn’t even put the winter blanket on the bed. Ick.

      • Anonymous

        Where do you live? We had a really cold winter in MD, though not much snow. At least it was really cold in the mornings when I had to scrape ice off of my car like 75% of the days since December. Today it was cold when I came into work (29F), but it is getting up into the 50’s. I can’t wait until it’s really spring and not just a tease!

        • Anonymous

          VA. We had a couple weeks of sub-20 nights in January when I was afraid the pipes would freeze, but only one real snow. We missed skiing in February because kiddo keeps bringing home colds from school now that masks are gone. Now spring appears to have arrived early. We have late April/early May highs in the forecast for the next week.

    • Senior Attorney

      I am also wearing loafers today: coral Nubuk loafers with light blue chinos and a red peasant top with light blue and coral floral print. It’s quite warm today but is supposed to be cold again by the weekend so I am enjoying it while I can!

      Fun fact: My assistant and I are turning into the same person, fashion-wise. She is also wearing casual pants and a floral peasant top today. And things like this are happening a lot lately!

  4. Cb

    I’m looking for something that’s weirdly hard to find. A vertical tote, preferably canvas, with a zipper. I need something I can tuck my notebook, ipad, tea flask into if I want to go and work in a cafe, or if I want to get on the train with my suitcase and then things for the journey. Something that would fold up decently small. I had something similar from Gap or Old Navy until a sharpie incident, but that was years ago.

  5. AnonAnon

    Thank you to everyone who commented yesterday regarding my H and his controlling tendencies. Can anyone share experiences on how they got out of a situation like this? I am discovering it is most likely worse than I really thought. I know I can reach out to a DV hotline, but logistically, with teenage kids, how do you even go about it?

    • Anonymous

      Do you have family or a support network in the area? My mom had to leave an abusive marriage and we moved in with my grandparents for a few months. I think it is easier to find a permanent solution while living with supportive people/family rather than trying to do that under the roof of the person trying to control you, if possible.

    • Anon

      Domestic violence organizations are there to help all women, in all types of situations, get out of abusive relationships. I was on the board for one of our local organizations for awhile and we got women from across the socioeconomic spectrum, in all kinds of situations, coming into the shelter. I would recommend calling a local DV organization, even if you think you don’t need shelter resources, for advisement and connection to resources that can help you. Women and kids are most at risk when women decide to leave. A DV counselor should be able to help you set up a plan that can get you out of the situation and also help protect you and your kids.

      As the mom of a teenager myself, I know that trying to explain this to them feels like an almost impossible task. But you have to protect yourself, because if you don’t, you can’t protect them. I hope you will reach out for resources and support today, even if you do not feel ready to leave the home today. It’s okay for this process to take time and be done in a series of steps; it works that way for many women. Big hugs to you.

    • Anonymous

      You leave your house and google DV helpline and a library computer and get advice from them. Then you consult with a lawyer, following their advice on how to do so safely.

      • Sunshine

        +1. Either go to a library or the house of a trusted friend/family member to contact a DV organization. I absolutely would welcome a friend into my home who needed this type of help. I suggest not doing this from your own phone/computer/tablet if at all possible.
        If you live in a large city and post which city you’re in, people here may be able to provide resources for you.
        Thank you for posting again today. I was thinking about you last night.

    • Anon

      So sorry you’re going through this. Also try to secure your finances so that if he does something to your joint account you could be okay.

    • Anon

      Please be careful about your web browsing – clear your cache, cookies and browsing history often, or even better, if possible, go to a library or some other device that he wouldn’t have access to when looking for resources or posting here.

    • Anonymous

      Unpopular opinion but is it possible he’s got untreated depression/anxiety from the pandemic/etc? I know I’m not myself in annoying extra ways (menopause, pandemic, etc) but I’d be heartbroken if my partner left me over it without trying to do couples therapy. (is he the teenagers’ father?)

        • Senior Attorney

          Agree. Couples therapy with an abuser will only make him feel more empowered. Been there, done that.

      • AnonAnon

        OP here. He may very well have some sort of untreated depression/anxiety/bipolar disease, etc., which I have thought of often over the last decade plus. He has never been willing to see anyone or do any type of counseling in any way, shape, or form, even when I have suggested it multiple times over the years. Yes, he is the father of my children.

        I have recently not mentioned counseling as it seems to be not the right thing to do in situations with potential abuse.

        • Anon

          OP, you are correct. Your priority now is focusing on the health and safety of yourself and your kids. If at some point your husband takes steps to care for him that’s great, but you do not need to wait for that.

      • Anon

        Controlling behaviors are really not “not being oneself in annoying extra ways”; also it came up that this isn’t new/situational anyway. If he were checked out or irritable, that would be one thing, but this is so not that.

      • Anon

        This is wrong, The research on domestic violence shows that peoples gut intuition that their partner is controlling or dangerous is correct, and that couples counseling with an abusive or controlling person is very dangerous

      • Anon

        Unpopular opinion for a good reason. When the poster herself mentions possibly needing a DV hotline, the situation is serious and should not be explained away by saying the potentially abusive SO has untreated anxiety. Domestic violence victims are typically good judges of what their SOs are feeling or are capable of at any moment, so it’s really not ok to suggest that her assessment is incorrect.

        • Anon

          +100000000 The dismissiveness of OP’s own assessment of the situation is mind-bogglingly awful.

    • AnonAnon

      OP, I think was really hit me the hardest and made me think it is time to do something was when he doubled down this weekend telling me that he is only doing this because I made him and that he has never physically abuse me. I reminded him of the time he pushed me off the couch and he said he just had his foot against me and shoved, he didn’t really push me off.

      I have always given him the benefit of the doubt, but things like this keep happening. I thought he was willing to work on things, but this shows me he most likely will never change.

      • Senior Attorney

        OP, you have your head on straight and your instincts are good. I have a long response in mod so please check back.

      • Anonanonanon

        I’m so sorry you’re dealing with all this. All the advice to get out and find DV resources (not using shared devices) is right. We will be thinking of you and supporting you.

    • Senior Attorney

      This is what I did (note that I handled the money in our relationship so it was easy for me to do it without being detected. If that’s not your situation it will be harder):

      I knew my husband would never leave so one Saturday morning I woke up early and went out and looked at every apartment that fit my parameters and put a deposit on one. I moved half of our liquid assets into accounts in my name only. Then I came home and told him I was leaving in three weeks, which was when the apartment would be ready. I immediately moved out of our bedroom and into the guest room. On the weekend of the move I paid for him to stay in a hotel for two nights so I’d have the house to myself to finish packing up and do the actual move.

      Because the house was mine before marriage I thought I’d eventually get it back in the divorce, but that didn’t happen. That was okay because in exchange for letting him buy me out of the house I got major concessions in other areas. I haven’t seen or spoken to him since the divorce mediation and it’s been amazing.

      Because you have children, and because your husband might be further gone along the controlling/possibly voilent? spectrum than mine, you may want to do all of this at once. My advice would be:

      1. Get legal advice to find out what your rights are.
      2. Figure out a plan for where you and your children will go. Hopefully you have family with whom you can stay, otherwise hopefully you can rent a place for you and them.
      3. Put as much cash as you can in accounts your husband can’t touch, or open credit cards in your name only, or do whatever you can to build a war chest for what’s to come. In hindsight I wish I’d taken more cash and let it all come out in the wash in the divorce.
      4. Obviously, do all this from work or the library or somewhere else where he can’t trace your computer usage.
      5. When you have your ducks in a row, GO. Don’t look back, don’t chicken out. It took me three tries to leave, and the first two times I went back only to find myself thinking “if I hadn’t chickened out I’d be a year into my new life by now.”

      Much love to you. This is scary and hard but life on the other side is SO MUCH BETTER.

      • AnonAnon

        OP. Thank you so much for this detailed explanation. It helps just to see how someone else did it. So scary to contemplate actually going through with it, although I have considered it many times before.

        • Coach Laura

          I too thought of you last night and this morning. I haven’t been in your situation but I would call the National DV Hotline 1-800-799-7233(SAFE) or text START to 88788 and ask them for referral to a local shelter and also about how to do so safely. Senior Attorney has great advice and life experience but you have kids and that complicates things. I would not tell him you’re leaving in a few weeks and I wouldn’t tell him you’ve rented an apartment or are even thinking of leaving. You may need to get the kids out of school in the middle of the day. I would leave then tell him via phone or use whatever advice you get from the DV people.

          I would get info from the DV people about where to go – maybe a shelter for the first month – and contact an attorney ahead of time if you can do so safely from work or from a friend’s phone or whatever. After you leave you can have your paycheck deposited into a separate bank account that has only your name on it. You’ll have to work with DV people or your attorney to figure out how to get him to pay the rent/mortgage on the old place. There are too many unknowns for me to walk you through all the permutations but you can do this. I hope you have a supportive employer – maybe take sick time or vacation time if you need it or if you don’t want to tell your employer. And I hope you have family or friends but if not the DV Hotline should be able to support you during this time.

          Come back and post – we’re all here and have our hands on your back.

          • Senior Attorney

            I totally agree with doing it all at once and not telling him until it’s done — so sorry if I didn’t make that clear.

      • Anon

        Question for you SA; how did you afford to pay for the apartment rent and the mortgage until the house was sold (or whatever you did with it in the divorce)? Taking it from savings? This is what stumps me, since it’s not like I have an extra $$$ each month that could pay for rent in an apartment (i.e. not cheap). The only way I could do it is take the rent money from savings or put it on a credit card.

        • Senior Attorney

          We had a lot of cash on hand so, as I said, I took half and used that. Then once I moved out I told him he was on his own to pay the mortgage (which, mercifully, he could handle and he was highly motivated to hang on to the house) and I paid rent out of my earnings. We were fortunate in that I’d owned the house for a long time and the mortgage was less than what I ended up paying in rent.

          I will say that it was mind-blowing to watch all my carefully cultivated savings accounts go away. That, and all the shows saved on the DVR and all the meals I’d carefully saved in the upright freezer in the garage. Dismantling a joint life is no small thing.

    • Explorette

      No additional advice to give, everyone else has that covered, but wanted to let you know I am thinking about you. Please keep us posted. I know it is going to be hard, but we are here for you! You deserve a life without this person in it.

  6. Anonymous

    Internet strangers, tell me if I’m crazy: I think I want to leave my job for more money. Current: I am a jr. partner at a small law firm. I am inheriting an advisory (non-litigation) client base from a sr. partner who has said he’s retiring for years and actually IS retiring this year. I am well-liked at work. After analyzing the book… I realized most of the clients are gone. Most left before I got there. In my opinion, if a client hasn’t needed legal advice in 7 years – they probably have another lawyer. So. If I stay, I’ll continue making about $140k/year before taxes and benefits. I bill about 1700 hrs a year. If I stay, I need to start doing way more business development for new business.

    Why I want to go – I think I’m at the point where I could go “down” to an associate level at a bigger firm, bill another hundred or so hours, but earn a lot more. I could also move in house in my area for around the same money.

    Am I crazy to leave? I feel like I am now looking the gift horse in the mouth. I am also probably a little jealous of friends who work less than I do, but make more, and tell me I’m crazy to stay and work for this amount in this market.

    • Anonymous

      You’re not crazy, you’re underpaid. Can you negotiate a higher salary? If not, I would definitely be looking. Why work so much and deal with billable hours when you can make as much in house, unless you just really love your job?

      • NYCer

        Based on the facts of OP’s post alone, I agree. OP – where do you live? Are there bigger firms in your city? Are there good in house opportunities?

        • Anonymous

          I live in the Midwest but am willing to move. I don’t live in a huge city but there are always job ads for in house counsel in the area. Most of the clients I work with are too small to have in house counsel. I was previously in house but left for this “book inheritance” pitch. I have an open invite to go back to the company I left, but even though pay would be higher, there is no promotion potential there as the entire legal team is under 45. (This is one of the reasons I left- I was “stuck” under the AGC and GC, both of whom are still there).

          • Anon

            It sounds like the firm misrepresented the nature of the “book inheritance” when you were interviewing and used false information to persuade you to leave your in-house job and go to work for them. That’s clue #1 that you should leave. If that was false, what else have they told you that’s false? I wouldn’t trust them to keep any future promises. And on top of that, they’re underpaying you. That’s reason #2 to leave, but honestly I would be more concerned about their moral character. On the other hand, giving them the benefit of the doubt, is it possible they want you to go out and re-develop those same clients? I do think that a client that once hired firm A is more likely to re-hire firm A (absent any performance issues) than a brand new firm they’ve never worked with before. Perhaps the partner can help you with that before he goes, make introductions etc. and then you can pick up that client relationship where he left off. That doesn’t solve the low salary issue, though.

    • Anon

      What is keeping the senior partner busy? And has been for the last 7 years? Surely something other than the non-existent clients.

      I feel like there is incomplete information. And doing “a lot of business development” is often just . . . talking to people. Which you’d need to do to source / maintain / build relationships with internal stakeholders (and external clients, given your seniority) at any new firm. It’s really no different.

      As you get more senior and more expensive, you are painting a target on your back if you are a cost center / if your work could be done by a 4th year associate. If you are a profit center, that is the only thing that will save you and sustain you.

      • Anonymous

        OP here – retiring partner has been on our managing committee the last four years, and does a lot more insurance defense litigation than I would have guessed (outside my practice topic). He’s been billing about 75 hrs/month since the pandemic. I would expect to get maybe an average of another 10-20 hrs/month when he retires.

    • Cat

      so, billable expectations for senior associates at big firms are usually 2000 or so to be in good standing, but secretly if you’re under 2100 you don’t look in demand… plus unbillable support for client development. Are you ready for your days to be 25% longer consistently?

      Depending on where you are, you might get a raise going in-house…

    • Anonymous

      You are not crazy but you will burn a bridge. That retiring partner and probably the firm see this as a huge gift to you. Prepare to not work with them in the future.

      • Ellen

        Dad says it is not that much of a gift since she will be working to fund his retirement. My dad recognizes that the manageing partner and a few other altakokkers at my firm are relying on me to build our business to fund their retirements, but I still want to stay, but I am making a lot more money then she is and will make low 7 figures eventually if I build the business.

        With inflation being what it is, this poor woman will never find a husband, as men are very leery of having to marry a woman who may not make enough for the family. Even I have this issue, but I am in NYC with a constant influx of young pretty women, which I no longer am, and most insecure men prefer the young fresh ladies with a BA to me, with a JD.

        In the OP’s case, I would inquire as to inhouse options, because the companies generally will be able to pay constant salaries as long as they don’t go out of busness.

    • Anonymous

      The biz dev requirements at a larger firm and the established track record required to make partner mean you would likely not make it past Sr Counsel, I.e., a very short gig. I would knuckle down and do biz dev with the senior partner at your current firm before he or she leaves so you know the real prospects for filling your plate and have had a year of execution of an actual business plan. If the biz dev aspect of this doesn’t appeal to you, though, go in house ASAP.

    • Senior Attorney

      I feel like it’s probably never crazy to leave for a lot more money.

  7. Lily

    Recs for Philly area (Center City or South Jersey preferred) female internists / GPs please? My longtime doctor switched to a VIP/concierge model (ugh) so I’m on the hunt for a new doctor. I haven’t had a physical in years between the pandemic and having two kids, so I’m anxious to get one scheduled. TIA!

    • Cat

      following with interest because I’m unhappy with my current one – when you’re in good health she’s super friendly, but if you have a concern she goes from 0- catastrophe faster than I can pull up WebMD!

    • Anon

      Fwiw, if you can opt into the concierge model, it’s amazing. I’ve never been happier with my healthcare since making that switch. Not in your area though so no recommendations.

    • MK

      Dr. Stough at Stoll/Advocare. 1500 block of Walnut. She’s young but very professional and compassionate!

      • Anon

        I use other doctors at Stoll – I like my doctors but don’t love the practice.

  8. Anon

    Those of you who dermaplane, where do you stop at the sideburn area? Tretinoin has given me weird long sideburns that stick out and obscure my earrings. I want to get rid of them, but I’m imagining ending up looking like those guys with sculpted beards that abruptly end at a fade, but the opposite.

    • Anonymous

      When you get a haircut, have your stylist trim the sideburns, sort of like they would for a pixie cut. When you dermaplane, lift up that hair away from your face and shave underneath it. This will prevent a sharp line.

  9. Anon

    I am back in the office, trying on my 2019 clothes in anticipation of a work trip next month. I feel like I cannot dress myself (e.g., black tights with low block-heel pumps just feel so severe, like it is too much black; I am almost yearning for hose as it is too cold for bare legs still).

    Around me when I’m not in the office: nothing but a sea of printed midi dresses and $$$ sneakers (in other words, casual-wear that costs more than my MMLF staples).

    What are you ladies who are business-casual (emphasis still on business) wearing in-office or on important zooms?

    • ALT

      Probably more towards the casual side of business casual, but I’ve been in the office full time the past 2 years and have been wearing either skinny pants/blouses/loafers or a-line midi skirts/fitted top or blouse/block heels. Not sure if any of that is super current, but it works and is in line with what the rest of my office is wearing. It *feels* more current than a shift or sheath dress with pumps.

    • More Sleep Would Be Nice

      Following with interest. I WFH like 90%, and have been doing dress/blazer/heels when I do go in, but I still have no idea what to really dress like professionally now. My office is professional (as in, I cannot imagine not wearing a blazer at my level, but don’t have to wear a suit).

    • Anon

      I am sticking with mostly black/dark tones when I go into the office. Black sweater dress with black tights, flat over-the-knee boots or black turtleneck, dark wash jeans, black booties, maybe a black blazer to offset the jeans. I typically do not lean into color, but prefer the black/ivory/taupe pallet for all of my clothes.

    • MagicUnicorn

      Khakis or dark wash jeans, blouse & sweater vest/cardigan/blazer, loafers without socks (today only, because it was finally above freezing when I left the house this morning) or Chelsea boots with socks. This is my new uniform. Since we officially moved from suits required every day to business casual 90% of the time, only the admins in my office wear dresses or skirts. No one is in sneakers although I often spot more athleisure-like footwear such as Allbirds.

      On important zooms I make sure my dirty lunch dishes are not in the background and that my hair is tidy. I don’t dress any differently for zooms.

      • pugsnbourbon

        I have a charcoal-gray knit blazer with a striped lining – it looks great on Zoom and in-person. I got it on super clearance at JCPenney so sadly I can’t go get another four. I’ve been wearing it with black skinny jeans and chelsea boots – It’s a very 2015 look but I can’t bring myself to care.

        • MagicUnicorn

          LOL, I joke that I stumbled over the line into ironically fashionable due simply to how few effs I give about style anymore.

    • Anon

      Lol, I’m wearing what you’re seeing out of the office to the office, golden goose sneakers with midi dresses or jeans. I skew toward a dressier top – a cropped jacket over a printed blouse (like yesterday’s pick). My observation is the business offices have gone very casual with a mix of high-low. 2019 dressing is over.

      • Anon

        I’d totally agree that in-office dressing is just non-pajamas these days. Client interactions though — I am thinking I will dress a la 2019 until I figure out something better / more current. Forgettable vanilla black basics I think are great for this. What the subtle tweaks to that should be for 2022 . . . time will have to tell me. I sometimes do in summer black cropped pants, sometimes wide-leg, sometimes nylon material b/c it’s humid here, with a blouse and a black sweater jacket as a suit substitute, but I can’t figure out what the winter equivalent is when the weather is cold and also nasty.

        • Anon

          Not sure because I’m on the west coast so no winter issues to deal with, but as a client, I’m fine with everyone adjusting. I’m not thinking about elevating my look to 2019 ish heels or uncomfortable looks. Maybe that gives you more freedom?

      • Ribena

        Me too. I’m in the office wearing dark skinny jeans, Allbirds, a nice-ish top from Boden, and a boyfriend cardigan today. There are two men in full suits and ties on the next bank of desks. No-one knows what the rules are now! For client meetings I’m wearing a smart dress or skirt and blouse, sometimes with a wool blazer.

    • emeralds

      When I’m in the office, I’m in wide-legged pants with a close-fitting sweater or turtleneck tucked in, or skinny black pants (I wear cords but could be whatever) with one of my 2019-era looser sweaters and more updated accessories to balance it out. I swap between sneakers and Chelsea boots depending on the day/weather, and I imagine I’ll be adding in flats as the weather warms up. My office is pretty casual, but I’d be wearing the same silhouettes if it was business casual.

      I also don’t mind a lot of black. It’s easy.

    • Anonymous

      I’ve been back in the office almost since the beginning of the pandemic. I’m in a executive role in higher ed but a little more causal than before. My go to outfit includes flats/low heels, slim ankle pants, loose/flowy top or blouse with an open collarless jacket/jardigan. Slim on bottom and loose on top works for me. I’m also in a warmer climate so there very few days I need to wear boots.

    • Anon

      I’ve not worked in the office but I’ve been to a couple of events. I wore pants. I think dresses read as too dressy/strict right now, especially if they’re not flowy prairie dresses. So my conference outfit is my narrow ankle pants from 2019, a nice but not overly formal top, like a silk shell, and a collarless blazer. For shoes, something like an almond toed loafer. I don’t like loafers on my feet so mine are low heels with a little strap across the instep – probably not the most stylish thing right now, but I otherwise walk out of my shoes, which is also not stylish.

    • Katel

      I’m still wearing my MMLF and have replaced a few things on 2nd Act in larger size. My boss wears a skirt suit and hose 5 days a week. I’ve always taken my formality a notch off hers – dresses and blazer versus vice full suit. At home it’s MMLF tops and jeans/leggings/pants depending on how I’m feeling.

  10. shoes

    I am permanently WFH but am now starting to have occasional in-person client meetings (business formal) and in-office internal meetings (business very casual). For the internal meetings I have updated my jeans to straight-leg and my blazers to more oversized. Now I need shoes. Lug-sole loafers seem to be the answer, but I’ve tried at least 15 pairs and they all fall off my narrow heels. Any recommendations for lug-sole loafers for long skinny feet? In the alternative, what other shoe styles would work? I have P448s and platform Chucks, but I am not sure I want to dress it down all the way to sneakers.

    • Veronica Mars

      Maybe more flexible than what you’re looking for, but Birdies has a variety of loafers that aren’t as heavy of leather but very comfortable.

      • Anonymous

        If Birdies are still in, what does that mean for Rothys loafers? The cut and (lack of) heft are similar.

        • Veronica Mars

          The most famous version of Rothys are made from flexible plastic, Some birdies are made with leather or suede and look much more polished. That’s my difference.

    • Mrs. Jones

      I have similar feet and have tried all the lug sole loafers, and they just don’t work.

    • anon in brooklyn

      Have you tried using the heel grippers that stick in? Those work for me.

      • OP

        I have tried the heel grippers and the cushions that go under the ball of your foot. No use. I really need narrow shoe sizes, but no one makes those anymore.

        • Anon

          Expensive shoe companies do. Like Ferragamo (average runs narrow and they have narrows) and SW (narrow running and actual narrows). Mall stores . . . not so much. If anything, wides seem to be always on offer.

          • Anon

            My whole family has narrow feet, including my daughter. I had narrow feet until I broke toes in each foot and now they are bizarre triangular duck feet. Narrow feet are expensive to keep in shoes and none of them are cool. The best you can get is that you look “aristocratic,” as one grandmother put it, in some dressier shoes. I look like a peasant among them.

          • Anon

            Those of us who wear wide would dispute this. I find it especially challenging because I wear a small-ish size, and even the shoes offered in wide rarely start at my place (6) on the size range.

      • PolyD

        I love Cole Hagan casual shoes, but find they run too narrow for my average to slightly wide feet. So maybe those are worth trying for the OP.

    • Anon

      Not lug sole, but I (30 years old) get compliments on my Trotters loafers (styles like Leana, Caroline – have to be careful as some of the others get super dowdy fast). I also have long skinny feet and get them in narrow and they are comfortable and well made.

    • Anonymous

      Why not just go with non-lug-sole loafers/skimmers or heeled loafers? I know you say these meetings are very casual, but I am surprised lug-soled shoes are being considered work wear at all.

    • Anon

      I would get more classic loafers, I don’t think the lug sole is going to be trendy for very long.

  11. Financial Planner Options

    Can someone give me pros/cons/thoughts on help from Active vs. Passive (CFP) finanacial planners? My spouse and I are making way more money than ever, planning for kids, getting RSUs, ramping up retirement and we agree we want guidance.

    I like the sound of a fee-only CFP, who can do a run down of financials, help us target goals and how to put things into action in a few sittings. I also like doing things myself, moving my own money to the best of my ability.

    Spouse is a lazier finance person, doesn’t like spending time on this stuff. Likes having things sold to him. Has this hilarious notion of “giving someone $X so they can turn it into $Y” (which I find embarassingly naive). He was contacted by a BOA/Merrill Lynch person and is enamoured.

    If context helps, we make about $400k per year and have everything in BOA/Schwab, so a FP from either of those banks wouldn’t be too much change for us… I’m just wondering if there are pitfalls to either route I’m missing? or porque no los dos?

    • Veronica Mars

      There may be something confusing you here — active management can mean when a planner individually picks stocks or investments for you and buys/sells to try to maximize returns – typically they charge a percentage of what they manage, which you should run away from. A fee-based planner will “actively” look at your investments and make recommendations, especially on tax efficiency, but they will usually stay out of the individual investment strategies and suggest passive investment vehicles (index funds, etc.). And honestly, with a flat fee situation, once you arrive on a mix that makes sense for you, there should be very little maintenance needed.

    • Anonymous

      I talked my spouse out of hiring a financial planner who charged a percentage of assets under management by doing the math on exactly how much that would cost and how much it would eat into our returns.

      • Anon

        This is always me. I am not sure how someone could make up that loss absent piling on risk or something dodgy.

        • Financial Planner Options

          both good points – thank you! we’re only 35 and 40 and 1%/yr could be a lot of drag on our returns, depending on how much we put in AUM.

    • lifer

      I also favor a fee-only planner to get things organized, especially if you have an interest in this stuff. Even the fee-only planners can try to take advantage though. It’s not an easy space to navigate.

      I strongly recommend staying away from advisors at banks. I naively went to Bank of America in my 20s when I inherited a small sum of $$ (which was HUGE for me, as a poor graduate student), to ask for advice. They gave me terrible “advice”. For example, they tried selling me a large annuities with high fees that had no place in an 20-somethings investment portfolio.

      Keep it simple for now. Maximize all retirement vehicles. Index funds with low fees. Look at Vanguard. Read Boggleheads.

      Interestingly, the rich people/relative I know do have financial planners that take a percentage of their investments, which works out to be a lot of money. They do things like optimize taxes, and work with their lawyers to shield stuff in trusts and involve family for minimizing inheritance taxes and probably do help open doors for them to investments that regular people don’t have access to. When we asked one of them if they would recommend their advisor to us, the rich relative literally laughed and said in a not so nice way that we were not rich enough for that world. It really is a different world.

      • Anon for this

        I am curious about this too. We make about $2M per year right now and it is likely to increase to close to $10M over the next 15 years. Right now we still just use Vanguard etc. and index funds.

    • Anon

      I love having my financial advisor just handle all of it. As long as the fees charged (X) do not exceed the returns the advisor achieves (Y) above what I would have achieved managing it myself (Z), it’s worth it–and that doesn’t even count all the personal time and effort it would take to manage my own investments. In other words, the fees (X) must be less than (Y) minus (Z). There’s no way I could achieve on my own the returns my professional advisor does, so I consider the cost well worth it. The bigger your portfolio, the less likely you could manage it on your own (especially while working full time, raising kids, etc.) and equal (let alone exceed) what a professional could generate for you.

  12. Anon

    I’ve been car camping a lot since the pandemic started. My camping friends are planning a 2-night 2-day backpacking trip next month. I have a 65L backpack and a backpacking tent. Not sure my sleeping bag and air mattress are ideal for long backpacking trecks, but this will be .5 miles from parking lot to night 1 camp site, 6 mile hike on day 2 in a loop to a second camp site, and then 1 mile back to cars, so all things I’ve done before. I also have a jet-boil and have started walking the dog with the backpack and 2L of water. I figure that I will just rotate outfits (change into clothes night 1 that I will wear day 2, switch back night 2 and wear the rest of the trip). I have a long-handled spoon for Mountain House things. I have a big first aid kit for my car and can pare down essentials for the backpack. What else should I be thinking about / practicing over the next month? They are very encouraging, but I’ve never peed in the woods before (have watched the Homemade Wanderlust videos on that though) and need to think through TP, bringing lots of zip locks, whether I am likely to be OTR, etc. I think that night 2 we have a vault toilet (hooray). Advice? Suggestions?

    • Anon

      So I’m genuinely curious about this because I’ve now seen a few people say that they’ve never peed outside before. I didn’t go backpacking until I was in college, but I don’t ever remember a time where I hadn’t peed outside as a kid, and my family wasn’t super outdoorsy. Did you just never get stuck places without bathrooms?

      • Cat

        I haven’t unless you count the ocean… we took long road trips but always had planned rest stops!

        This type of camping sounds like zero fun to me and you have this internet stranger’s permission to skip.

        • Anon

          This is me. Ocean only. I tried once and wet my shoes, legs, and socks (do not wait until maximum need!) and just never wanted to revisit that.

          I have pooped outdoors (something I ate) and that was sudden but otherwise didn’t ruin anything.

      • Anon

        And to clarify, I’m not talking about peeing in the middle of a city street, but most of the parks or hiking trails in my area don’t have bathrooms or are often closed if they do, so it’s pretty normal to go off the trail and pee. It’s not like there’s another option if you have to go…

      • Anon

        I’m also not outdoorsy but know I peed outside as a young child. I’m not even sure why/where I did it, but I know I did.

      • Anonymous

        I grew up camping and hiking in very rustic situations but have never peed outdoors. When out hiking, we just held it the entire day until we got back to the pit toilet at the campground. I don’t think people drank as much water back then, though.

      • Anon

        And since I’m still thinking about this, I’ll also add that peeing in the woods is actually much easier than peeing in places without trees. I’ve spent a lot of time in west and it’s actually way more awkward when you have to squat in front of everyone or trek off a mile away in search of a ditch for some privacy. So be grateful for trees!

          • Anon

            You don’t sit on the ground to pee. Poison ivy isn’t everywhere. You learn what it looks like – poison ivy is pretty obviuos. It doesn’t jump out and grab you or sneak up.

          • Anon

            Yeah, I’d definitely advise against wandering off into fields of poison ivy/oak! I’ve never gotten either of them, and mostly avoid areas where they’re super common, but there are some trails I can think of where it would be really hard to go off trail at all without getting them. Those are cliff sides in California, though. Usually there are some more open patches.

            This thread is making me feel like I spend too much of my time hiking thinking about where to pee! I definitely can’t just hold it all day, so it’s a choice between peeing outside or never being able to go outside at all, which is why I brought it up.

          • Anonymous

            Where I hike in the SEUS, you literally cannot leave the trail without traipsing through poison ivy and tick-infested brush. This is one reason why I don’t backpack.

          • Cat

            tbh, if my choice is a shorter hike where I can pee in a bathroom, or a longer hike but need to pee in the wild… I’m going with the shorter hike.

      • Vicky Austin

        I went backpacking/camping starting at the age of 8 and peed outside on such trips, or on hikes if it was urgent, but otherwise no. For some reason a lot of the neighbor kids on our street that I babysat for, mostly boys, thought nothing of dropping trou in their backyards rather than run inside. My parents were very opposed to this for me and my sisters, and we

        I did have an emergency once while walking home to my dorm in the middle of the night when nothing was open (studying abroad). I don’t think anyone even drove by, mercifully.

      • Anon

        I’ve done it but not since I was a kid, and frankly now I can’t squat that low and still get up gracefully.

      • Serafina

        Okay this might be weird but I really enjoy peeing outdoors. I love going on a long hike or backpacking trip without a ton of people, and finding a secluded and beautiful area to pee in and looking into the mountains/ocean/whatever as I’m peeing.

    • Curious

      Caveat that I love camping, but don’t worry too much — backpacking is way easier than I thought. Peeing in the woods takes getting used to and then you kinda figure out your technique and what you need to feel safe and it’s fine. Don’t expect to be an expert on the first go.

      You mentioned re wearing clothes from night to day. I assume that’s like pants and shirts. I find it’s better to just have day clothes and night clothes (no harm wearing the same hiking pants 3 days, but kinda gross to sleep in the dirt in my sleeping bag?), and lots of changes of underwear and sports bra and socks. I’ve never regretted the weight/ space of a clean bra, undies, and socks on backpacking trips up to 3 nights. Day clothes should ideally be quick drying fabrics. Make sure you bring warm layers and dry layers. If you get wet or cold, it’s hard to recover, and that makes things miserable.

      What are you doing for water? Pump? Iodine? Make sure you have a plan for that, as you definitely don’t want to pack in 3 days of hydration plus what you need to cook.

      Freeze dried meals are awesome for saving weight, but you can also do a lot with e.g. powdered mashed potatoes to save $$.

      • Anon

        OP on this Q — we will have something called a Platypus to get stream water with and gravity filter it. I have thought about getting a Sawyer Squeeze but they think that the Platypus will be adequate. Maybe I will grab some bleach tablets? I tend to keep 1L water for cooking and then the other liter is for drinking.

        One thing I hadn’t thought of is cleaning camp spoons — do you just lick them clean? Or do a scrub? I have biodegradable soap and could bring a washcloth to clean up, but it seems a bit much for a short time when it’s probably just oatmeal, snack bars, and mountain house pasta.

        • Anon

          I’m a dirtball, so yeah, lick clean is fine. You won’t be carrying your load for very long, but be mindful of any seams on your sports bra being under your pack straps. I’ve done a few days braless because of my poor choices in the past. No biggie for me, but everyone’s shaped differently and it could be problematic for others.
          Think of this as a good, short, shakedown trip. You’re not going far or being out for long, so don’t worry about everything being perfect. Take notes (mental or jot it down) on what works and what doesn’t, then adjust for the next time.
          You can’t go wrong with a small pack of baby wipes. If you don’t end up needing them, someone else will.

        • Anon

          I wouldn’t worry about the soap, honestly. A flour sack towel cut down to an 8 by 8 square (be aware, it will fray but that’s okay) is a good thing to bring with you for dishes and pots. Wet the dishcloth and then wipe your spoon and your pot with the cloth. Shake out the dishcloth, rinse in a small amount of water, and then wring it out well and hang it somewhere to dry; this is why flour-sack towels are great – they’re thin, and thus they dry fast. It’s more important to save potable water for drinking than it is to use it to clean things. Even if someone’s bringing a water filter, it takes effort and time to filter water so that it’s drinkable; things happen out in the backcountry and it’s best to save water for consumption than to use it to maintain normal standards of cleanliness. It’s very unlikely you’ll get sick from a small morsel of food left on a spoon or pot, but getting dehydrated can really cause you problems. If you’re worried about germs on your eating equipment, sunlight is a good disinfectant; you can leave cooking/eating things in the sun while you’re breaking camp or setting up camp.

        • Curious

          Gravity filtering with a Platypus sounds fine, albeit slow! Your friends have a good plan. One note — I tend to need 2L just to drink if I’m doing 6 miles of backpacking (even without elevation; I can go through 3L in 8 miles and 1400 feet gain), so you may want to think about how to set yourself up to carry that amount on day 2. Wear boots and not flip flops the first time you pee in the woods, wipe the boots off in the grass if you pee on them, and have fun :).

      • Anon

        When I camp in COLD weather, I hate changing out of sleeping gear, so I have switched to wearing what I sleep in for day 2. BUT in warmer weather, I have dedicated sleep clothes and changing is NBD (vs OMG I am going to die why am I doing this where are the Hot Hands).

        Here is a Q:

        If you are backpacking and there is dew / condensation on the tent in the morning, do groups wait for them to dry before packing them up to move on? I’ve never packed a wet tent before except to throw it in the car to drive home with and then put up again.

    • emeralds

      You’re going to be fine! Curious has some great suggestions, but I want to emphasize that especially since you’ll be nearish to the car both nights, this sounds like a fantastic introductory backpacking trip (and way smarter than what I did for my first one, lol). Have fun!

      • Anon

        OP here: what is the plan — low-risk way to figure out if this is really do-able for something more ambitious (like segment hikes in some cool mountain places for this summer when it is much nicer in the mountains than in our city).

        In Before Times I was 1000% OK with day hiking and a very nice hotel / restaurant after. Look forward to that again, definitely, but hiking isn’t bad. I am lucky I don’t have problems sleeping.

    • Anon

      That hike sounds short in absolute length but remember, when you’re backpacking and carrying a load, elevation gain makes a big difference. It’s important not to overload yourself. I would not go out and buy a bunch of ultralite gear until and unless you’re sure you’re going to backpack often, but do try to bring lightweight things, which may be different than your car camping things. See what you have that’s plastic or lightweight metal or borrow equipment from folks you know. The one thing you might really want to look at is your sleeping bag. It needs to be very light, and very warm, and the one you’ve been using for car camping may be both too heavy and not warm enough (paradoxical, I know). Good backpacking sleeping bags can cost $$$$ so again, I recommend borrowing or renting something for this trip vs. buying. Also, when you say “air mattress,” do you mean a sleeping pad? If you’re talking about an actual vinyl air mattress that needs a pump to inflate, that’s going to get heavy and I would borrow/rent a Klymit or similar sleeping pad to take with you.

      The actual experience of backpacking once you get to your destination is not that much different than car camping; the big difference is how you get where you’re going, and what you’re able to take with you. I am a big fan of someone bringing a pack of playing cards or some other lightweight game everyone can play during downtimes; those kinds of things add extra weight but end up being worth it. As for peeing in the woods – as others have mentioned, I did this so much as a child I don’t think twice about it and I don’t know that “practicing” is necessary. You can look up some tips online but I will say – there is an “angle of attack” with squatting to pee outside that will help you avoid dribbling on your shoes, and I find that making a shallow indentation in the ground (you can bring a dedicated spoon for this purpose, and keep it in the bag with your TP) helps avoid issues with unexpected runoff. The most responsible thing to do with the toilet paper is pack it out vs. burying it. Some people go farther and use a “wipe cloth” they store in a plastic bag, but that’s beyond what I’m willing to do.

      I haven’t gone backpacking in some years but this sounds like a good first trip; not too much mileage and not too many nights out (I had a friend whose first backpacking trip was a 5 night, 30 mile round-trip loop with serious elevation gain and it was a lot. Seriously a lot. She never went again). Hopefully you have good, broken-in boots already – I am sure you know, that can really kill a trip where you’re dependent on walking from destination to destination. Have fun!

      • Anon

        Thanks for this. OP here again. My mattress is a Nemo inflatable thingie that I blow up with this sack thingie (not a pump) that is nylon, so not v. heavy. Just weeping b/c Diet Coke is my morning comfort item and I will have to just leave it in the car for the ride home (vs morning 1). I can bring ice tea mix (I spike it with tang mix) that I like hot or cold, but it won’t be the same. I will survive :)

      • Anon

        I’m the one who keeps posting about peeing, and figure I should also post some helpful advice. I’ve done a decent amount of backpacking but don’t really do it anymore because I really, really hate feeling weighed down by carrying a backpack. This poster has good advice. For me, at least, I wanted to carry as little as possible. It was absolutely not worth carrying any more than the bare minimum to stay warm, dry, and fed. No dish soap, no dish towels, no air mattresses (but you do want some sort of pad between you and the ground to keep you warm). I also don’t skimp on anything safety related. Always enough warm clothes, basic first aid gear (and training- highly recommend a wilderness first aid class when you have a chance), water purification and enough water (less of a concern in the east than the west), and at least some food that doesn’t require cooking- I had a stove crap out on me once and uncooked oatmeal makes lousy meals!

        • Anon

          Totally agree on the first aid class. I took a NOLS Wilderness First Aid class and really enjoyed it and learned a lot. I think REIs host them from time to time.

        • Anon

          I should add, even though I don’t do it anymore, the amazing thing about backpacking is that it gives you access to places you just can’t get on a day trip and a way of experiencing nature more in depth than when you just go back to a hotel for the night. I don’t think my body’s up for it any more, but I’m so glad I had a chance to do it at one point, so enjoy it!

        • Anon

          Oh good point about East vs. West – let me caveat, I am in the high desert West and that’s the only place I’ve gone camping or backpacking. Water is always a concern. From year to year, streams and ponds (and now even rivers, thanks to climate change) can dry up. I was taught to plan like you will not find a viable, usable water source, even if the maps show one is there. So when backpacking, I always take more water than I think I’ll need and try to save weight on other things so I can carry more water. Completely understand that in places with more reliable natural water sources, it may not be as much of a concern.

          • Anon

            Yes, that is a story that many of us are telling our kids as a cautionary tale when we take them out in the backcountry, even just for a day hike. The area that family was in spiked to 107 degrees during their hike, and there was no shade available for them to escape the heat. They had also way underestimated the amount of water they would need for three people. For awhile people were trying to blame fumes from an old mine or foul play for the deaths, but legit – this is the kind of mistake it’s easy for inexperienced hikers to make. A similar thing happened in New Mexico a few years ago – a couple from France and their child went out into White Sands Monument on a very hot day; they didn’t have enough water; White Sands is hard to navigate by sight as the dunes all look the same once you’re well into the monument. They got lost and their water ran out. The parents collapsed and died and their son had to make it out on his own.

            My parents are very outdoorsy and taught me from an early age that backcountry survival is up to you; nature is indifferent to your survival and will not help you out of a bad situation you get yourself in. Over the years it means I have not gone on certain (really cool) hikes or into certain really scenic areas that require difficult technical hiking or climbing, because if I don’t have complete faith in my ability to get myself out with no assistance, I feel it’s better for me not to go.

          • Senior Attorney

            Yes, and a dear friend of mine died last spring while hiking in the So Cal high desert. She was an experienced hiker but got caught in hotter-than-expected temps, too far away from civilization to get help in time. Her companion survived but she did not. Heartbreaking.

    • Anonymous

      Foldable tarp – can use in rain, as an emergency blanket, on ground. Rope – may need to put food up in trees to keep away from animals. Little Shovel – to bury #2s. Small lantern.

      • Anon

        Good point about the rope. Where we camp you can be heavily fined and/or permanently banned from a campsite if you don’t appropriately secure food so bears can’t get it. I have a bear bag for backpacking and a bear canister for when we car camp.

        • Anon

          I thought that bear canister was superior to bear bagging. Like in our area SEUS, the bears (black bears, not the giant ones) can get the bear bags — mad tree-climbing skills maybe? They cannot get into the canisters, so even if they bother them, they drop them quickly and just move on.

          • Anon

            Bear canisters are superior, but can be difficult to make space for when backpacking.

  13. Anonny

    Help! I have a bridal shower this weekend and I have no idea what to wear. I’m late thirties, size 12(ish… thanks covid) with a mom pooch belly. No time to shop in stores. What can I order that’ll arrive by Friday?

  14. Therapy cost

    How much do you pay for therapy? I found a good therapist that I really like but the cost seems extreme – $250 an hour private pay (she doesn’t accept my insurance and I’ve had a difficult time finding a therapist who does.) Is that normal? I’m in a difficult situation and could use her continued help dealing with it, but am having a hard time swallowing that cost.

    • Veronica Mars

      Are you eligible for sliding scale or pro bono? I used to work in a therapist’s office an no one ever asked about pro bono but I knew there were pro bono clients.

      • Veronica Mars

        And that cost is in line with what a MD would charge for medication management and therapy services. I don’t want to say that’s too much if they have less training or experience, but that was in line with what our psychiatrists charged.

    • Anon

      I think you turn around and file on your insurance, so your OOP expense is not going to be $250 ultimately. It’s worth calling your insurance to see what your yearly OOP max is and whether they pay 50% or something like that.

      • Anon

        We did this a number of years ago when my son needed a kind of specialized occupational therapy and the therapist didn’t take insurance, period. It wasn’t that our insurance didn’t cover the therapy; the therapist did not want the hassle of dealing with insurance and so was private-pay only. But we manually submitted claims to our insurance and so our out-of-pocket costs were not the therapist’s rack rate. It’s a pain in the butt (and made me sympathetic to why some providers don’t want to deal with insurance companies), but it was worth it to get the care my son needed at the time.

      • Anon

        Yes, this. My experience with small private health providers is that they refuse to take on the cost and time of dealing with insurance, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t file it yourself.

        • Anonymous

          +1 so many of my friends have looked at me like I’m an absolute monster for suggesting they just file the claims themselves, but it’s sucky and I can’t blame small medical providers for not taking on that labor.

      • Senior Attorney

        Yeah, that’s what I did for years. Your therapist will give you a “superbill” (no idea why they call it that, but whatever) with the required magic codes on it, and you file yourself. $250 seems reasonable, at least for a major metropolitan area.

      • Anon

        Sorry to be a downer but this doesn’t always work out well. I’ve tried it with two different therapy providers. The first could never produce a billing statement that the insurance claims processors would accept. They were more like receipts for our payments written by hand with no diagnosis codes. By the time we went back and forth with the insurance company and the therapist refused to do a better invoice, we were already a couple of $1000 in.

        We switched therapists, not only for that reason but including that reason, and the new therapist was willing to provide a professional invoice. This still got rejected a couple of times but she worked with us to improve the coding and we got them all submitted.

        Insurance in the end paid very little. There was a separate mental health deductible that we had to hit first, which was annual and our visits were unfortunately bridging over a school year so two deductibles, and they limited their payment to a percentage of a maximum allowable fee, which was far lower than what the therapist was charging. So in the end, we got back about $50 per visit of the $175 per visit we paid, and that was only after we met the deductible. Twice.

        I could take the unreimbursed costs to my HSA and get my own money back for them, but only with an EOB from my insurer, and when the insurer won’t accept an invoice you can’t get an EOB. I cannot tell you how much time and effort and frustration I spent on this.

    • Anon

      About 5 years ago I was paying $250/hr in a VVHCOL city, I’d expect it to be closer to $300 now. And yes, I found no one remotely decent took insurance.

    • Anon

      For small providers, they can’t absorb the cost of hiring a person just to deal with various insurances and all the hassle. You pay them and then you file (and once you master that, it’s NBD but I wouldn’t want to deal with medicare, medicaid, 500 types of private insurance, etc.). It’s hard being a small provider (from my friend who is a private practice physical therapist).

    • nuqotw

      Yes, submit to your insurance and find out how much they pay out of network. You may need to get billing codes from your therapist/authorization from your insurance first.

      FWIW I paid as I recall $350/hour about 15 years ago. Insurance covered about 40% to some maximum and then I paid the whole cost. It was worth every penny.

    • Curious

      This is what a PhD psychologist’s time costs in Seattle. If they are good, and you need CBT/DBT/ACT, you will recoup the costs vs going cheaper because they will offer a time bound, evidence based treatment program and then you will be able to graduate with new skills instead of staying in therapy for a long time. Best money I ever paid, but I also accepted my job at Amazon to have the money to pay for therapy because it costs so much, so I fully understand the eeeek feeling.

      • Curious

        Oh and insurance covered like $40 per session when I submitted. Not all by a long shot but it was a relief to get the reimbursement checks for sure.

    • Anon

      Boston, ~$300-350 an hour from what I’ve seen – both for good and bad ones. I’d suspect really good ones are more. My plan if you submit the claim yourself the insurance provider will reimburse 80% (all has to be done by mail and you get a check sent back weeks later).

    • Bonnie Kate

      Okay actually I’ve been dying to talk about this topic but can’t in real life because it’s DH’s sessions. He did a series of sessions in November/December and they were $450/session! And for reference we’re in a fairly low cost of living midwestern area. We have a high deductible insurance policy that covers sessions after our deductible is met – we had already met the deductible for 2021, so I was super grateful that he was talking so someone and really didn’t care about the cost – even if he goes back in 2022 if that’s the cost of him getting the help he needs, we’ll just figure it out.

      However I just got the insurance paperwork for the billing and the insurance has negated $300 off, so the sessions are actually only $150/each. It’s actually financially good for us personally, but seriously that is such a ridiculous premium that uninsured/not covered by insurance people have to pay out of pocket. I get that the insurance company negotiates with the providers and reduced rates, etc, but holy cow that’s a huge difference.

    • Anon

      Does “doesn’t accept your insurance” mean your insurance doesn’t cover it or she won’t submit the paperwork for you?

      • Anon

        There’s more to it. “Accepts your insurance” or “in network” means they’ve agreed to your insurer’s per visit maximums. So they mark off amounts above that and you don’t have to pay it.

        By not accepting insurance and making you do the claims work, they don’t have to agree to a max, so you pay anything your insurer doesn’t cover.

        Say they charge $200 per visit and take insurance. They bill insurance. Insurance says our max is $125 and the patient has a $50 co pay. So they pay the therapist $75, you pay the therapist $50, and the therapist writes off the $75 between the $125 max and their $200 charge.

        If they don’t take insurance and you submit the bill yourself, you pay the therapist $200 and await reimbursement from the insurer. The insurer still has a $125 max and you still have a $50 co pay, so they reimburse you $75 per the first example. You are now out of pocket $125 rather than the $50 you would have been with an in network therapist.

        This is why most therapists, at least in my area, do not accept insurance.

      • OP

        She takes insurance from some companies but not the one I use. I’m not sure why.

    • Anon

      I’m in the pricey bay area. I’ve never found a therapist that accepted insurance! The last one we used (it was for my teen son) came highly recommended and her rate was $175 for a 50 minute session. $250 seems steep.

    • Anon

      I’m in southern CT and that lines up with what I pay. Do you have an FSA/HSA? You can use that to pay although it will obviously run out at some point. Another thing to check is your insurance and if they will cover any part of the out-of-network costs. You would have to submit the claims yourself but that could help offset. They may require you to hit your OON deductible first (and they may decrease to their allowable amount – for mine, it’s like $135 as the allowable amount) but then they may reimburse after that point at a set %.

      The reason that most therapists do not take insurance is because of the allowable amount an insurer is willing to pay.

  15. Anon4This

    Weight loss update – TW for those who have history with these issues. <3

    2020-21: COVID weight gain, lost all semblance of a workout routine, unexpected pregnancy, loss of a dear parent, postpartum, grief, life challenges/overeating = the heaviest I've ever been in my life.

    I've really leaned in to IF, loosely tracking food (but definitely tracking weight) on WW, and peleton app workouts (ideally 5x, more like 3x a week), and I've lost 5 lbs this month! I still have a long way to go – roughly 20 lbs until I think I'll be in the feel-good range, and 30 until I'm at my "ideal" weight (which I will reassess once I get to the feel-good range), but it feels more in the realm of possibility now!

    • Anon

      I didn’t so much eat my feelings during the pandemic, but ate my boredom, which was a bad habit to get into. I’m slowly getting out of it. No Peloton, but trying some free weights and an aging aerobics step. Even 15 minutes if 15 minutes when I’m not hitting the chips and guac. I was just feeling exhausted and also like I was out of clothes, so my cheapness is motivating me as much as my vanity.

    • Ribena

      Nice one! I’ve similarly got a bit of a handle on the effects of 2020-21 the last couple of months and am down about 8 lb with calorie counting through the Lose It app.

    • PolyD

      I follow a YouTube 12-week workout plan. The first week or so is mostly cardio and body weight moves, then she adds weights. I got myself a pair of 12-lb weights to use. I’m in the part where we use weights, and I think adding weights to my workout is having more of an effect than not using weights. I’ve only lost a few pounds, but at least it’s moving!

      The plan is to do a workout 5 days a week. I am for 2-3, depending on my week, and try to squeeze in a Yoga with Adriene on the days I don’t. I also try to bug my partner to go for a walk (aim for about 2 miles, hopefully more) most days.

      As for food, well, I’m trying not to eat my boredom, too!

      • OP

        Agree with this. I bought adjustable weights (that were recommended here) and what a world of difference it makes! I think in my (borderline body dysmorphic) 20s I was so highly programmed that “cardio burns fat” but as someone in her late 30’s, the importance and benefits of strength training is beyond.

    • anon

      Nice. I also am trying to shed pandemic weight, and it is very slow going. Like 2 pounds in 5 weeks slow. I’m pretty discouraged, tbh.

      • OP

        Solidarity. It’s hard. Like, really hard. It was easier when I was younger because (a) I lived in cities where I walked more, (b) more time/flexibility to workout, and (c) I was younger/better metabolism.

        Again, I have a LONG way to go, and I anticipate more setbacks but happy to share what has helped if that would be of interest. Nothing that you likely don’t know already but sometimes it helps to see a list.

        • anon

          Hit me with your list! I can use all the help I can get. I haven’t tried to seriously lose weight since my early 30s and things are different now. I am tracking on MFP and already had a good exercise routine going, so I’ve been keeping on with that and adding more strength training. (But I highly doubt that I’m gaining much muscle yet.)

          • OP

            Here’s what’s currently helping – caveats on common sense and YMMV:

            1. I eat a big a** salad for lunch almost everyday, especially M-F. I put things I actually like in it like, tofu, cheese, a nice homemade dressing (today was sriracha ranch – about 2 tsps was more than enough), and eat chips on the side (which I measure out exaaactly 1 serving of). This means buying all the greens/salad kits, mix-ins, veggies every week knowing I’m going to eat a LOT of the stuff.

            2. Intermittent Fasting – I eat 12-8 most days, and 100% M-F. On weekdays, I eat dinner with my kids around 6 (DH eats later) and then I’m done. If I get hungry afterwards, in lieu of dessert, I go for herbal tea.

            3. Limiting Sweets – This was big for me – I don’t have a sweet tooth, but during the stress eating started “needing” a brownie after every meal (???) or ice cream every night (???). I stopped refined sugar for a bit in the spirit of re-training my taste buds. Now in lieu of a brownie or ice-cream daily, I basically have changed that with…herbal tea/honey and now I still crave something sweet but a little goes a long way. And sometimes you just need to eat 4 girl scout cookies.

            4. Tracking weight, somewhere – like you’re already doing.

  16. Anonny

    Fashion help please. I’m 35, 5’4, size 10-ish, with a definite mom belly. Going out to dinner later this week with my husband and his direct report and direct report’s wife, both of whom are in their late 20s. What’s a decently trendy (but not ridiculous) outfit I could pull together? We’re going to a nice but not super fancy restaurant in a big city. I’m so used to either frumpy biz cas wear or my usual athleisure that I’m really struggling and don’t want to feel frumptastic. TIA!

      • Anonny

        I feel like a jumpsuit would just highlight my lower belly fat, unfortunately. I used to wear them quite a bit…

    • Cat

      what city? tbh it is seriously “anything goes” around Philly these days. Anything from trendy mom jeans & expensive sneakers & crop tops, to black or suede leggings tucked into knee high or moto boots with a long chunky sweater, to floaty dresses with sneakers. Skinnies are still hanging around but worn more with sneakers or loafers than heels.

    • Anonymous

      what’s your style like, what pieces are you considering wearing in your closet? let’s start shoes and bag — is it an OTK boots + clutch night? or loafers + crossbody?

      • Anonny

        Part of the problem is that I’m 9 months postpartum and very few of my casual, going-out clothes fit. I have black skinny jeans that fit, and those faux leather spanx leggings that fit, in terms of pants. I have black suede over the knee boots (the kind that really hug your legs), and a variety of different color suede heeled booties. Definitely would carry a smaller leather purse with a chain strap.

        Tops are just trickier. Would an oversize chunky sweater look more current, or more of a “going out top”?

        • Cat

          are you going to be in a “streetery” or inside the restaurant?

          I would say that black OTK boots with either black skinnies or the leggings, plus a slouchy sweater, would not look frump particularly if you’re eating outdoors.

          A big sweater might be too hot if you’re inside. Restaurants have really been cranking the heat lately. If that’s the case for you, a pretty silk blouse half-tucked into bootcut jeans, pair with either low block heels or loafers, might be a good “not trying too hard” look that doesn’t literally or figuratively feel too wintry for March.

          I haven’t been seeing as many heeled booties so would probably skip those unless they are under bootcut jeans rather than having skinnies tucked in.

          Seeing your question above about trendy sneakers… I am not the person to ask but the Golden Goose or – lower price point – P448 (?) are still in the mix.

        • Curious

          Going out blazer with a Seraphine dress if you didn’t ditch all your maternity clothes, tights or leggings, and suede booties? I feel like the only part of my postpartum body I want to show off is my legs…

  17. Anonymous

    How would you describe your relationship with your extended family [aunts/uncles/cousins/etc.]? Like is it a wonderfully support type thing where you all discuss your new jobs or possible new jobs or business ventures or health issues and everyone supports you? Or is it more toxic/critical where everyone is constantly judging your house, your job etc. Or something in between – like you have nothing in common with these people so you’d never seek out their opinion on anything but are more than happy to like their social media posts, grab a drink when they’re in town, or spend a few hours together at a holiday dinner once a year or a wedding every couple years?

    Just curious where others stand on this, as I’m recently realizing just how critical/mean my extended family really is. I’m from an immigrant culture that goes on and on about FAMILY so everyone MUST keep in touch but as I’ve gotten older I’ve realized that keeping in touch is often just to get “news” about you that they later gossip about/judge etc.

    • Anon

      My closest aunt has dementia (early onset) and it is just making me realize what glue the older generation has been. I feel such a sense of loss, coupled with the pandemic. It’s like my family is just vanishing.

      • Leatty

        Same here. Up until a couple of years ago, my maternal side of the family was very, very close – I spoke to my maternal grandparents at least weekly, and we regularly got together with our broader extended family. My grandfather was the anchor of our family, and my grandmother was the glue. They passed away several years ago, and it rocked my world. I then became closer to my maternal aunt, who passed away in 2020. While I still have some extended family on my maternal side, I really only speak with one of my uncles, and that isn’t frequent. The whole situation makes me so sad – growing up I was so so close to my relatives (especially the ones who have passed away), and it’s like a huge part of my identity has been ripped away.

        My dad’s side of the family is not at all close. They get together on major holidays and spend the whole time trying to one-up the other, gossip, and engage in MAGA-ian rants. We weren’t terribly close when I was growing up, and now I never speak to them. At most, I’ll post congratulations on FB when there is something major to celebrate, but that’s it.

    • Anon

      I’m an only child and very close with my parents. They moved to my city to be near us and help raise our kids. I have only a handful of aunts, uncles and cousins (my parents each have one sibling). We’re actively estranged from one side, due to conflict between my dad and his sibling, and I haven’t seen any of them in decades. The other side we’re cordial with (we send holiday cards and they send gifts for my kids on holidays) but we don’t plan get togethers. When we were in their city a few years ago for a wedding, we had brunch with them but we wouldn’t visit for the sole purpose of seeing them. My MIL is one of six, so my husband has a bigger extended family, but we’re not close to them. Pre-pandemic there were big family get togethers twice a year for holidays and we went to them occasionally, but otherwise it was like my mom’s side of the family where there’s no animosity but also no real interest in maintaining a close relationship.

    • MND

      One side is very large (10 siblings at my parent’s level and ~25 cousins at mine) but I would say I have some level of positive relationship with all/most. I would fit in the “in between” level you describe for most, but with a wide range… some relatives are pretty out there (mentally or geographically), and some are nearby and normal so we are closer. My family does a family reunion every few years – not everyone makes it each year but it does do something to establish the connection so that my kids see certain cousin’s kids as “that fun kid I played gagaball with when we went to the reunion last year” or I’ll have a cousin’s spouse who I think of “that one person I had a really good talk with about ___ at the campfire.”
      We are not recent immigrants and there is very little sense of obligation, so interacting is very much a choice. I have some cousins have I haven’t seen in person in several years, some I interact with regularly on SM but see infrequently, and some I see maybe ~4-6 times a year.

      • Cb

        I shocked my husband, with my “I only have 16 cousins on my mom’s side!” 17 doesn’t seem like that many when your mom is one of 10. I can name them all, but I’m not sure I’d recognise them, and they range in age from 50 to 12.

        • MND

          SO similar… I can still name them all in age order and by family, but I haven’t seen several of them in person in 5+ years. Our age range is ~22-52.
          My other side has 0 cousins!

    • Anonymous

      My family is hard, I’m the most successful member by a lot but as a female my job is disregarded and my achievements aren’t discussed. You sort of lose love for people when they aren’t interested in your life, so why would I be interested in theirs? Hubs family is sort of similar. I’d be much more liked if I was barefoot and pregnant with a highschool diploma.

    • Anonymous

      Toxic and judgy. Indian-Am family – I know everyone pictures them as being so fun and supportive but mine . . . isn’t. VERY insecure AND status oriented so everyone is always going on and on about THEIR mansion, luxury vehicle, money etc. and if you’re not into those things/don’t have those things, you’re automatically not as rich as them; even if the reality is that many of them are living way beyond their means and you could afford that stuff easily with your biglaw bonuses etc. – the fact that you have made different choices to them means you somehow are just not as “good” as them. Very much like OP they call just to gather info about you and then gossip.

      It’s sad because not everyone is like this but the 2-3 families that are the oldest relatives and have proclaimed themselves matriarch/patriarch are totally like this – which makes all the other cousins just not want to engage with each other at all. The matriarch/patriarch cousins I just don’t talk to. The other cousins – we’ll engage on social media and see each other once/twice per decade at a wedding and have a nice enough time. We are also a rare Indian family [I think] that’s spread all over the country, so when you aren’t wild about the relationships you’re not spending your vacation time and money to visit. But maybe it’s better bc if we were all living within a half hour of each other with them behaving like this, I would have had an irreparable falling out by now.

      • Anon

        I’m very curious – this seems to be a recurring theme – posters who come from Indian American families who are super judgmental/intolerant/gossipy and otherwise not supportive or toxic. And Indian-American posters who can’t be honest with their parents about various topics (dating, career, etc). Is this just a really common feature of Indian American families, and if so, why? Does it peter out after 2nd generation has kids?

        • Anonymous

          I’m the prior poster – yes it is a common theme. No it obviously doesn’t happen in EVERY Indian-Am family, but it happens in a lot. My guess based on my friends’ families/my own, I’d say it happens in 50-75% of families and the other 25-50% are normal. As for why – can’t answer that beyond saying, I just think this is how our parents’ generation was raised in India OR they weren’t raised like this but came to America and became like this to hold onto their “Indianness.” What I mean by that is — it is a culture that is VERY VERY centered around “what will people say about us/our family.” Legit you could tell your parents anything – I don’t want to go to college; I’m not straight; I hate being a dr. and I’m not going to med school/quitting med school/quitting my job; I’m in love with and want to marry X – when X is non Indian or different type of Indian or different faith or whatever – in 50%+ families the first reaction is NOT about supporting the kid/being concerned about the kid/being happy for the kid but legit “what will people say.” Uh who cares what they say – is someone who is not straight supposed to pretend for life to make the relatives happy?? If you have a “tolerant” family with “supportive” parents, that means you can eventually “convince” them that what you want to do is ok and won’t destroy the family or the family’s reputation. But there isn’t that – I support/trust you inherently because you’re my kid.

          But yes it absolutely peters out in the next generation. In part because many of the next generation isn’t marrying Indians [despite their parents’ concerns re what people will say] and this type of BS doesn’t work in American families who’ve been here for generations AND even where Indian-Americans are marrying other Indian-Americans, they were raised in the US and have seen how American families function – and “let” their kids do what they want even if it isn’t med/law/engineering school, “let” their kids have relationships as they want etc. and they generally like that – so they’re raising their own kids that way.

        • Anon

          I don’t think this is uncommon. I’m not Indian but I have dated men who are and from my experience, some families are very into status, appearances, luxury everything! As I got to know them I realized it was pretty superficial and they were insecure. Part of the reason I stopped seeing them.

        • anon8

          Indian American here. I was born in India and moved to the US when I was 4. I’m in my mid-40s now. It is very common for kids to lie to their parents about things, especially with dating. With Indian families, you don’t discuss things like dating/relationships. The focus is on grades and school. Preferably you’ll go to med school or marry a doctor. Bonus points if you are both doctors. I completely rebelled and married a white guy who didn’t go to college. Oh the horror! Yeah, I’m not a fan of my culture’s judgmental attitude. Not all families are like that, but it’s what I experienced. Now that first gen kids are having kids I hope that things will be different. I don’t have kids myself, so not sure.

        • Anon

          Indian-American also – and I’ve had the opposite experience of the previous poster (don’t want to invalidate their experience tho!). I come from a very big, fun, and generally supportive family. I think another angle to this discussion is class and where in India the family is originally from. Most of my family is very much working class (as opposed to the doctors and engineers you usually hear about). While there are certain areas where we flex our “status”, such as how many people you invite to your wedding/birthday/event, we’re really not comparing homes, cars, vacations, clothes, etc.

          Although they are super supportive, there is a certain cattiness that’s part of our cultural voice that can feel mean-spirited. Also want to add that for me personally, although I receive a lot of love from my family, they don’t really know about or understand my professional achievements outside of the basic points (got a job, got promoted).

    • Anon

      My parents have 7 siblings between them, most of whom are married, so I have a lot of aunts, uncles, and cousins. My relationships are very different between them, but for most, I’d say we fit into the like-their-social-media-posts/see-each-other-at-holidays/weddings/funerals-type relationships. I have a couple who I’m a bit closer to and would call them for advice, but I probably talk to them 2-3 more times a year than anyone else, not a ton.

      My family does tend to be very supportive though, or at worst just polite. If anyone is judging me, it’s behind closed doors, and I don’t hear about it (and I’m happy to keep it that way!)

    • Cb

      I moved abroad 10 years ago and really have very little relationship with my extended family. They are nice enough but I’ve always been a bit set apart due to some awkward grandparent dynamics (only child, dad and grandpa didn’t get along, I picked up on that early, was often excluded from cousin stuff)

      It’s a bit sad, but they don’t have passports, it’s a very long trip for us (with no place local to stay), and we don’t have much in common. I’m also not on social media, which means I don’t know what people are up to – beyond what my dad tells me (and they’ve moved abroad as well)

      When we have been together, we had fun though. There were three great grandchildren born within a year so I’m hoping one of the younger cousins gets married soon so we have an excuse to go and hang out for a bit?

    • anon

      None of the above. My father’s two brothers live in their home country and I haven’t seen them in YEARS. I occaisionally have surface level chat with one on WhatsApp, but haven’t said or written a word to the other in decades. Sometimes I get a Christmas card. My mom’s brother lives in the US, but I can’t even tell you exactly where at this point. I have seen him in person twice in my life, the last time being 25 years ago. No animosity at all, we just aren’t close as a family at all.

      All grandparents are dead, never knew my grandfathers (all dead pre-me). Met paternal gma once or twice when young (she was always in home country) and my maternal grandma a handful of times (she was no one’s favorite person). Again, no real animosity, just distance and not being close generally. All grandparents lived in/through wars which impacted them in real ways.

      • anon

        Should add, my sister and I are it as far as kids go. No cousins. We are a small family that will die with my sister and I!

      • anon8

        Same. I’m the Indian poster from above and am in my mid-40s. My grandparents are all gone. My aunts, uncles and cousins all live in India. We rarely talk. Agree with the above that there is no animosity, just distance/logistics make it difficult to be close.

    • Anon

      We send Christmas cards and that’s it. Haven’t talked to them in actual words in over a decade because I’m on the “wrong” side. Both uncles cheated and broke up their nuclear families, the kids sided with the moms (no judgment from me, just stating facts), and everyone on the dads’ sides (my nuclear family) got thrown out with the trash, so to speak. I’d have preferred to stay close with the kids and moms, but they made their feelings clear, so we just faded out.

    • Anonymous

      Another immigrant here from a family is very important culture. I grew up with all my extended family overseas and within the last 15 years some cousins moved to the US. The cousins are a big disappointment. I had a major, long term, family catastrophe, involving loss of employment, serious medical issues, legal, financial issues, etc. where I am financially struggling now and dealing with a parent with serious mental health issues. The cousins are silent. As in, I text them happy culturally appropriate holiday, and I don’t even get a response back. For a while I thought they were shunning me to object to some things that happened in my immediate family. But that might be an incorrect conclusion that I made from internalizing racist views of what my immigrant communitys culture is. Now, I’m leanings towards the conclusion that my cousins are just not that nice, don’t know how they can help me, and don’t want to be bothered figuring it out, or figuring out how bad things are for me. The family is very important thing cultural indoctrination that I got from my immigrant community or parents was probably a very very simplified explanation of what “our culture” is by people who had to adapt to this society and reconcile cultural differences and not loose their kids to cultural assimilate and self hate. Family is complicated and is complicated in every culture. The way I see it, you can be on good terms with your relatives, bad terms, or no terms. Recently I’ve felt the pain of no terms. I have been spared the pain of bad terms by being so far away from most of my relatives. So my goal is to imagine that one day I can be at peace with the cousins.

    • Anon

      My extended family is Dysfunction Junction – it’s this weird combo of verbally saying “oh we love each other so much, nothing’s more important than family,” etc. etc. but there’s always this strong undercurrent of judgement, competitiveness, backbiting, sniping behind people’s backs about things the person can’t change, etc. that’s always present. After my grandparents passed, I started declining invites to family gatherings because I realized my aunts and uncles were trying to pass the dysfunction on by trying to pit the next generation of kids – which included my son – into competition with each other about grades, who’d gotten a trophy in their activity, etc. It was gross and I was not going to engage with that, period, or allow my child to be influenced or affected by it. FWIW this is a family of white Southern Baptists, most of whom have college educations.

      I have a close group of childhood friends I’m still in touch with and we have “family gatherings” that are 10x more supportive, fun and friendly than my actual family gatherings. I know some folks may disagree with this but I didn’t get to choose the people I am biologically related to and if I don’t have anything in common with them, I don’t feel obligated to spend time with them. My “chosen family” is so much more loving and supportive of me than some of my biologically-related family members have ever been, so I don’t feel like my choice to spend more time with my friends is unreasonable or invalid.

    • Cat

      Friendly when we see each other at the occasional holiday or wedding, but not involved in day to day life at all. (We’re really spread apart geographically so casual plans aren’t a thing.)

    • Anon 2.0

      I have a fairly small close extended family – I have one uncle who I am close with. He never married or had kids but he was always involved in my life as well as my siblings and we are all close to him. He is the only uncle I have on that side of the family and no aunts. I also have an aunt on the other side of the family who I became closer to as I got older.

      I only have one first cousin total. Yes, total on both sides of the family. I see him maybe once a year when I go home to visit but we are not close whatsoever. I have some more extended family down the line but I wouldn’t say we are close and I would have zero idea of who to contact a vast majority of them outside of social media,

    • Vicky Austin

      I have three answers to this question depending on which “side” we’re talking about.

      My dad’s family is huge, mostly centered around where he grew up and where my parents currently live, and I don’t live anywhere near there and haven’t for a couple years. I mostly follow my dad’s lead – he likes one of his siblings, so I have stayed in touch with those cousins. The other siblings he doesn’t get along with as well, and their kids are all older than I am (some of them by 15 years!), so I don’t hear from them and don’t reach out, and while I’m living this far away that feels unlikely to change. So some of these people I rather doubt I’ll ever see again except at our grandmother’s funeral, and that’s fine.

      My mom’s family is mostly concentrated in the Midwest where she grew up. She is close to her siblings, but I and my sisters have grown well away from our cousins despite being close as kids. This side has a much higher social media usage rate, so we mostly all follow each other on Instagram and send each other Christmas cards, but otherwise I don’t really bother to talk to them. And I have complicated feelings about most of these cousins that are probably generational and usually end with me and my sisters snidely judging them. Not proud of it, but it’s true.

      My husband’s family is much smaller and therefore significantly more close-knit. He calls each household in it at least once a month and his grandparents every weekend. I actually really admire my MIL in this situation, because I think she’s the main driver behind these good relationships, by making her own family and her in-laws welcome at her house but also setting reasonable boundaries.

    • Seventh Sister

      I have a really small WASP-y family. I’m close with my sister and aunt (my mom’s sister) and my parents, as well as keeping in touch with a couple of distant cousins who are my parents’ age and their kids. There’s plenty of passive-aggressive gossip, but we mostly get along and mostly enjoy hanging out together. But we CANNOT talk about anything vaguely political, and it makes our relationship more distant than it might be if say, we all could agree that Biden truly won the last election fair and square.

      My dad’s only brother and his wife are another story. We do Christmas cards and talk/see each other occasionally, but they don’t really want much interaction. A lot of it is about religion. They are very devout evangelical Christians and we are not “saved” according to them. Weirdly, I think they would be more interested in us if we were *not* churchgoers, because they seem to find it frustrating when we say stuff like, “nah, we’re cool with being Episcopalians but your church sounds nice!” My dad basically has a part-time job being a church treasurer, but because it has an altar and candles, my uncle doesn’t “have time” to visit when he is 30 minutes from my parents house (they live on opposite coasts). It’s just sad.

      To be frank, I keep in touch because my first cousins have a bunch of kids and it’s all but certain that one of them won’t be straight. Cousin Seventh in the big godless city will 100% take that kid in when their parents kick them out!

    • anon

      Mom’s side – my mom’s generation is close with each other despite being geographically spread out because they grew up together as children visiting the farm. My generation squarely falls into the equivalent of – when you met one of your good friend’s friends and just get along. That’s about what we are like – not particularly close but no one would doubt we are related.

      Dad’s side – A therapist would probably say everyone is bonded by intergenerational trauma. Not close on a day to day level but if anything hits the fan, everyone will move heaven and earth to be there.

      Husband’s family is different. They have a lot of daily communication touch points, which would seem like they are close but never actually talk about things and aren’t really “there” for each other. I’ve described it as an almost pathological fear of a follow up question.

    • anon

      Nonexistent. One side is completely estranged and won’t be informed of that parent’s death. The other side, we are Facebook friends but I’ve missed the last two funerals and didn’t invite them to my wedding. I wish for more, but I saw these people a maximum of 4-5 times in my life. It clearly was not a priority growing up that I form a relationship with them.

  18. Anonymous

    How do you get a strong perfume smell out of clothes? I just thrifted a Ted Baker blazer for $3.39 at Goodwill — it’s been in the freezer 2 days (we do that for all thrifted clothes to hopefully kill bugs) and the smell is still there.

    • Ellen

      Well, for $3.39, you can’t expect much, but I would take it to a dry cleaner and ask him if he can get the perfume stink out of it. That is probably why you found it at Goodwill in the first place!

      Dad says that if he can’t get the stink out, you can give it back to Goodwill, and add the price of the drycleaning into your basis for tax purposes. Dad did this with a pair of Timberland boots that got stuck in cow patties, which he scraped out of the treads, but never could get the stink out of. He paid over $180 for those leather boots, but I remember that no one could sit in the same room with him when he wore them. FOOEY!

    • Anon

      Vodka in a spray bottle, the cheap stuff will work just fine. Spray it well, and let it air out (ideally outside if possible). My MIL is a heavy smoker and we have to vodka spray the couches every time she stays for more than a short visit.

      • Former Theater Student

        Costco probably thinks I have a problem given how much vodka I go through! I think it is hysterical that 6 people basically offered the same advice at the same time.

    • Anon

      Put an open container of coffee grounds in with it. Low and flat, to maximize surface area.

    • Anon

      Spray it with vodka and then hang it outside in a non-sunny place (so it doesn’t fade). It may need to be outside for a couple of days before the smell dissipates. After that, take it to the cleaners, and it should be okay after that.

  19. Horse Crazy

    I want to add a set of nice dishware/china to my wedding registry – what are your favorites? I know it’s kind of outdated, but I have a fantasy of hosting Rosh Hashanah or Passover dinner with fancy china and linens…

    My every day dishes are Fiestaware, which I love, but I just want something fancier ?

    • Horse Crazy

      Also I’m having trouble filling up my registry because I already own a lot of nice kitchen stuff…

      • Ribena

        Would it be helpful if I listed my surprise kitchen tool heroes? These are the things I would go out and buy again first if I lost everything and had an insurance payout:

        – Joseph Joseph colander scoop. Replaces all slotted and serving spoons in my life and is also fantastic for serving up single portions of frozen veg/ rice without grabbing the full size colander

        – silicon spoon – the same shape as a wooden spoon but covered in silicon like a spatula. Amazingly useful

        – set of two 6” cake tins. I love making cakes for people’s birthdays and two 6” layers makes a tall celebration cake that isn’t excessively large for small groups

        – sauté pan or chef’s pan – deep large frying type pan with a lid and good non stick coating. I use this almost every day

        – stick/immersion blender for soups etc

        – matching sets of storage containers for leftovers and for dry goods. The ‘matching sets’ is key because it means that they stack and all the lids/bases are interchangeable. I like the ikea glass ones.

        – oxo salad dressing shaker. This is a new addition but I love it. Suspect it would also be good for making single portion c-tails in too!

        • Anon

          Can you please tell me about adjusting recipes to the 6″ cake size? I want to bake more cakes but then we end up with too much cake!

          • Ribena

            It’s half of an 8” square/ 9” layer generally. Sallys baking addiction website has an explanation and I almost always use recipes from Deb at Smitten Kitchen where she generally gives all that size information

          • Senior Attorney

            Haha, my husband and I did this calculation a while back and laughed and laughed because when we were in eighth grade we swore we’d never use geometry in real life!

      • Aunt Jamesina

        -Pretty oven to table to fridge serving dishes
        -Pretty platters and trays
        -nice glassware (huge fan of Duralex, they also make great mixing bowls with lids!)
        -Fancy barware
        -New kitchen, bed, and bath linens because even if yours are nice they will eventually wear out
        -If you already have and use a KitchenAid mixer, look into the attachments

        • Anon

          I just got the Duralex mixing bowls with lids and am using them constantly. I used to be loyal to Anchor Hocking, but the Duralex are just better.

      • Vicky Austin

        My husband put together our Target registry and added a cordless drill and some other useful tools, and not only have we made excellent use of them, we had multiple guests come up to us at the wedding and tell us how much they loved being able to buy us something that wasn’t towels – my husband’s college buddies appreciated that especially.

    • Anonymous

      skip unless you can keep it really controlled – i totally did not need service for 8 (and tea service and 3 kinds of wine glasses) that i got.

    • Ribena

      I adore Emma Bridgewater. I would register for a full dinner set from her if I were getting married.

    • anonshmanon

      I love hosting. It’s not everyone’s wheelhouse, but you do you! If you have the storage space, also consider specific glassware for hosting. A set of glasses in a couple of sizes quickly adds up.

    • Aunt Jamesina

      We registered for a set of plain white bone china for our wedding and it’s great because you can easily dress it up and change out linens and glassware for different events. It’s also lightweight and stacks well (esp compared to Fiestaware, which we also have!) and I’ve found it to be relatively durable. As long as it doesn’t have metallic accents you can throw it in the dishwasher, which for us meant we’re far more likely to use it.

      I have a gorgeous mid century set that we use maybe twice a year since it has a platinum rim and can’t go in the dishwasher. Our white bone china gets used for most dinners throughout the week.

      • Senior Attorney

        Pro tip: Put it in the dishwasher. I put all my fine china (including the ones with gold and platinum rims) in the dishwasher and it’s fine. At least give it a try.

        • Anon

          What detergent do you use?? I’ve definitely seen dishwashers demolish metallic trim before, but I want to know your secret.

          • Senior Attorney

            We use the Finish pods and so far, so good. We did have some (new from Pottery Barn) highball glasses with a gold design that wore off eventually, but the 30-to-60-year-old china is holding up just fine!

    • anon

      I had Mikasa Garden Harvest on my registry 20+ years ago….wasn’t keen on replacing broken plates etc. so stopped using about 5-7 years ago and switched to Crate and Barrel Aspen…all white, easy to replace. It is true what the food stylists say…food does look better on all white dishes. AND you can more easily replace white pieces and/or mix in white pieces from other sets/brands. Sooo…to do it now I would recommend a white set.

    • Cat

      I would go with a lovely plain white bone china for max versatility. You will get tired of any pattern you pick. Have fun with table linens and flowers to mix up the look.

      • MagicUnicorn

        This. My family is hard on dishes so I prefer a plain, basic white china set for the ability to mix & match with everything else and easily replace pieces when they inevitably break.

    • OP

      We use my hodge-podge Fishy’s Edy collection day to day (and I’m ALWAYS interested in adding to this :)), but we did get a nice set of Sur La Table dishes, platter, bowls, etc. on our wedding registry which basically serves as our “china” set. They are white with a blue outline, classic and timeless :)

    • Anon

      To be perfectly honest, the best way to buy fine China is to buy an entire set a Millenial is selling because their boomer generation parents passed it down and they don’t want it.

      I’m old school but I’m partial to very minimally decorated white China. I think food looks best on a non-fussy plate. Sometimes I like a more decorated plate for dessert, but that’s it. So for me, it’s something like Lenox Federal.

      What I actually have is China that my mom collected grocery store stamps to buy, one plate at a time, from the grocery store in the 1960s. And I do love it. It’s not what I would choose if I were starting from scratch, but you can’t beat the sentimentality.

      • Anon

        This is my suggestion. You can get entire sets for the price of a single place setting new. Vintage is where it’s at. But, I know, hard to register for. Consider choosing a basic pattern (white or ivory with a silver band) and you can always get vintage pieces to add some flair. Lenox’s “Eternal” (gold) and “Solitaire” (silver) patterns are their basic shape and they have and have had hundreds of patterns in that shape that coordinate if you wanted to register for a classic. My mom’s wedding china from 1966 was a derivative of Solitaire. (She so wanted me to register for Solitaire to coordinate with hers when it becomes mine, but I was young and wanted something just a little bit different. I went with Waterford Newgrange Platinum.)

      • Anonymous

        More ideas if you’re getting a new house or setting up somewhere new:
        – self-watering planter pots for outside
        – trees/shrubs/landscaping
        – vacuum/mop robots
        – plug-in sconces or nice lighting
        – nice drapes

      • Seventh Sister

        As a GenXer with two sets of fine china (my wedding china, an antique set from my husband’s great-grandmother), I heartily endorse this approach. I don’t want ANY of my mother’s china, my mother-in-law’s china, or my aunt’s china. Ditto on my grandmother’s china, which is the set that makes me the saddest (it was probably the nicest thing she ever owned) but it is just ugly.

    • Anonymous

      Do you like a white or cream background? I love cream and have a Lenox pattern that I love that is dishwasher friendly. I have paired it with a wide range of accent plates from the same manufacturer over the years, and restock broken bits on Replacements.

  20. anon for this

    Help me think through whether to proactively address something that’s minorly impacting my work: my memory. I’ve always been the person who had a photographic memory, could remember minute details years later. I was quick on my feet and the go-to person for my boss. Well, the pandemic killed it. Between caring for small children and the death of a beloved relative and the general mental load over the last two years, my ability to recall small details is just shot. I take detailed notes at work and have ramped up my usage of lists and reminders to stay on track. But when my boss asks me a question, my default is now “let me confirm and get back to you” instead of having it ready. I can tell she’s disappointed that I’m not as quick as I once was. To be clear, my overall performance isn’t suffering, just my speed of replies. If you were me, would you address it either in a separate conversation or at review time, to let her know that I’m taking steps to make sure I can still do good work but may be a little slower?

    • MND

      I wouldn’t bring it up, but I’d try to improve if you can. E.g., if you’re meeting about a particular topic, can you look over your notes and think about what questions boss might have for 20 mins before you connect?

      Also reframe the “I don’t remember, let me check” in your mind – this is you being diligent and making sure you’re giving the right answer! If you’re comfortable in the moment, you could say something like “I think it’s likely A, but let me confirm when I get back to my desk as I’m not 100%.”

    • anon

      I would do nothing unless she specifically brings it up to tell me it’s an issue. Do whatever you need to do behind the scenes, but if she hasn’t actually told you it’s a problem, why would you highlight it?! My memory SUCKS, always has, and it hasn’t affected my career at all because I use systems like you do and I always get back to people quickly. Don’t make a mountain out of a molehill.

    • Anonymous

      Ugh this is me too. Interesting in hearing replies. My boss used to used my memory as almost a party trick ‘hey anon can you recite section 27 of the teapots act for us?’ I can not do that anymore and I won’t be able to until I can go back to the office and have pre-pandemic stress levels. I hate not being sharp.

    • Aunt Jamesina

      I tend to think the “I’ll think on it and get back to you later” response indicates that you’re being thoughtful and deliberate about the question. Unless it’s really time sensitive (“so, which arm are we amputating?”), this isn’t a problem in the workplace! If it’s a problem for you personally, I’ve found I’m sharper when I’m well rested and get plenty of exercise and time outdoors.

      • Anonymous

        Even “which arm are we amputating” gets written down, right on the arm.

    • anon

      No, I wouldn’t proactively address this. You’re not doing anything wrong, and you have systems in place to compensate. Pandemic or not, I think this is a thing that happens to a lot of us as our lives become more complex and more is expected from us. You do get to a point where you simply cannot remember it all.

    • Anonymous

      We are all feeling like this given pandemic stress. Give yourself some time to recover from stress and grief.

    • Anon

      I have always had a terrible short term memory for whatever reason. Because of that I have had good systems and often when I start working with someone new (including my directs), I mention it casually and why it means I will document stuff like crazy or ask them to email me something rather than just mentioning it in the hallways. I bring a lot of other things to the table and straight up recall is just not one of them. It sounds like an identity change of sorts for you which is difficult and maybe your boss will just have to get over her disappointment, but you probably bring a lot more value than details off the top of your head.

  21. Anonnymouse

    I’ve seen the term “mom belly/pooch” or similar used multiple times on this post today, as well as in the past. As someone who has had such a tummy since puberty and no babies, it’s starting to rub me the wrong way. Maybe I’m just having a bad day, but I’m kind of tired of seeing that this is something that only moms should have, and that my natural shape is deviant somehow? Please know that this is not meant to bully or shame moms – I’m sure the emotional toll of your changing body is real and significant – but it just irritated me today. So, just a vent.
    Maybe this is similar to the feeling I get when I hear objectively slim folks worry about getting bigger – when me, in my size 16 pants, is standing right there. Yeah, friend, it would be a bummer to look like me. *Sarcasm, of course*
    Apologies if this comes off as insensitive. Just don’t really have anyone to talk to about these feelings today.

    • anon

      I hear you. Same with the phrase “childbearing hips.” I have had those since I was 17. Even at my thinnest, I was never, ever able to fit into a single-digit size. The skeleton will not allow for that. TBH, it felt pretty crappy to never have that stereotypical young person’s body.

      • Anon

        I was a size 0/2 as a teenager and even then my thighs never touched. Now all I hear about is how girls want thigh gaps. My skeleton is not shaped that way!!

      • Anonnymouse

        I think this is part of my irritation – I’ve NEVER had a stereotypical young person’s body. Shopped in the women’s department at 13. Grew up in the era when women weren’t allowed to have an a$$, and felt that there was something wrong because of that. And now, I still see similar patterns among grown women.

        • Anon

          I had an a** when those were scorned. Now, my a** has disappeared as I age and have lost muscle mass, just when having an a** is the beauty standard. Oh well.

    • Anon

      My mom pooch isn’t just a rounded belly – it is a specific type of pooch from excess, wrinkly skin from pregnancy. Significant weight loss can lead to the same thing.

      • Anon

        For me, it’s stretched-out muscles. I had a very flat stomach before pregnancy, and there’s still not a lot of fat there or excess skin. However, it just kind of sags because the muscles are too long for the space. If I lean over, it just droops. Definitely a “mom” thing because the rest of my body is quite toned.

      • Anon

        Also due to the varying amount of diastesis rectii (sp?) we have. Where your abdominal muscles are no longer connected, but actually split apart. Don’t think that’s going to result from anything other than pregnancy.

    • Monday

      I understand. I wish we didn’t have so many special words and phrases to describe what’s wrong with women’s bodies. I have learned so many such terms by osmosis, and I do think language effects how we see ourselves. And yes, talking about getting bigger with fear and shame is a message to everyone that being big is scary and shameful. Including everyone who has always been larger than you.

      People can always say “I feel self-conscious about my stomach and am looking for something that won’t fit too tightly there” or something like that.

    • Anon

      I feel you!! I’m the same size of you, I carry weight in my belly and look pregnant most of the time. I decidedly do not have children. It sucks to hear people, even my friends, talk about bodies like mine like they are the worst thing imaginable.

    • Anon

      I agree. I have a kid but my pooch predates the baby and I’ve never really understood the phrase “mom belly” since there are plenty of non-moms with bellies and plenty of moms with flat stomachs.

    • Anon

      I am overweight and had a belly before pregnancy. But the mama pooch (which to me is a badge of honor) is different. It’s loose, saggy skin, tissue, an fat that was stretched during pregnancy and now hangs there where as before pregnancy it was rounded and more upright.

      And now I have a menopause belly, basically due to fluctuating hormones our excess weigh shifts from our hips and thighs to our midsections. Pre menopause most of my belly weight was lower, south of the waist. Now I have excess belly weight above my waist as well, that’s the menopause effect.

      I say all of these things neutrally. They’re just facts to me. I think you find these things offensive, OP, because you don’t like how you feel about your weight. I would work on body acceptance and not expect the world to change its terminology, because it’s not likely to happen and you’re going to keep feeling hurt by it. Better to not feel hurt, and that’s about changing how you receive these messages.

        • Monday

          I don’t buy the argument that terms like this are “neutral” and that having a problem with such terms is your own fault. If it’s a “badge of honor” for you, that’s great, but it’s usually an insult, just like most other terms for imperfect female flesh.

      • No Face

        I agree with this completely. I’ve always had a rounded belly, but now I have a hanging pooch of extra skin folds. Lots of my mom friends have it, even my super fit athletic mom friends. Getting it to fit in clothes is a particular issue, and I don’t think I need to use a ton of extra words to talk about it.

    • Anon

      Echoing that it’s shaped differently after you have kids. I didn’t have a flat stomach before pregnancy, so it’s not that.

  22. Anon

    I had to call out my junior colleague/mentee today and it was entirely warranted but I feel so crappy. She caused the problem herself and exacerbated it by being willfully obtuse when I tried several times to give her an off ramp. I then warned her clearly that her behavior was a detriment to her professionally, then called her out when she escalated it. Finally had to call in her boss to address it and I am not sure the boss will think it is worth keeping her on the team at this point. I’m sad for her that it might go there, frustrated because we put a lot of time into training her and she does good work and has a lot of potential, but also angry that she has chosen to go this route instead of just growing up. This started with stupid little stuff like “No, you cannot hide behind the potted plant just because you don’t want to be in this all-team meeting” that she continued to make into a bigger, more distracting issue that had to be addressed.

    • Anon

      That sounds totally bizarre. My coworker just had to counsel an entry level employee who wasn’t getting anything done, and the young employee rebutted that she just wasn’t the hard-working type and that her employer needed to accept this about her. Like WTF?

      • anon

        I made some blunders in my early professional years, but wtf. In what universe would that fly?!

        • Anon

          I have Gen Z kids so I say this in a loving way, but that’s 100% a Gen Z thing. Not saying all Gen Z are like this but it’s textbook “here’s what’s unique about me and we celebrate it.”

        • Anon

          OP again. Another gem from my junior when told a minor, temporary, mindless clerical assignment she helped with for a few weeks had a new owner so she was free to focus solely on her assigned projects again: “That will not work for me.” Apparently she liked that task and thought she could just…always do entry level work for non-entry level pay? Her boss told her the entry level role was filled but they could talk about reassigning her if she was that unhappy. When he noted that her current rate of pay would not apply to a lower level title she grumbled for days after that about how unfair it was that we were treating her like The Help, because don’t we know she needs this job?

          My junior is not entry level although her prior work experience has been all rougher settings like construction company offices. We have tried to show extra patience because she is a really quick learner and very capable, but her skill set is not THAT niche that she can get away with these sorts of antics.

      • Anon

        OP here. Are our juniors related?? It’s been a whole saga of utterly absurd drama like this. Mine is also convinced it is the epitome of disrespect when senior managers call people to their offices to discuss things, rather than searching out the junior employees. She will roll her eyes when asked to go meet with someone in their office and will frequently just ignore the request unless it is repeated. She also complains that she is excluded from team socializing when she is indeed invited every event but declines each one with a rude comment about how socializing with colleagues is for losers.

        I have told her that while her work product is good, her behavior is negatively impacting her career. She shrugs and says she doesn’t care what people think of her, she is who she is. I told her today she is in danger of becoming higher maintenance than her contributions merit and she got defensive and claimed to just be so overwhelmed with feeling out of place here, like no one understands her. Finally told her I was sorry she feels that way, but the office is not her mother, here to love her unconditionally.

      • Anon

        Ahhh what? Is she also the type that doesn’t need health insurance, rent money, or food???

  23. Anon

    What things are people providing as “writing samples” for a legal job? For clarification, the position is not a fresh out of school one, and is in a transactional field. A client letter? Contract? I don’t have anything like the faux-appellate briefs we did in law school as writing samples.

    • Anon

      I would never use a client letter unless it’s possible to scrub out everything that even approaches being privileged.

      I am in litigation but always use a brief that has been filed (a copy with the file mark) that I worked relatively independently on. I think you’re going to be best served by something more like a contract that is clearly intended to be seen by someone other than your client and that has any confidential information redacted.

      • Anon

        Same poster here. I wanted to clarify that I don’t think you were suggesting that you would release privileged information. I’m just saying that I err on the side of making sure that question doesn’t even pop into the other person’s mind.

    • Anonymous

      Do you have any legal memos? I used an internal legal memo for my last writing sample that was almost entirely about the law and not about the client/facts of the case. I also am in litigation but focused more on confidential investigations, so I did not have any publically filed briefs to use.

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