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Updated: Mar 16, 2021 116 Comments · by

Coffee Break: Metallic Leggings

Coffee Break |

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Pondering some new leggings for a workout? While these can't compete with the TikTok butt leggings (I mean, what can?), these ARE gorgeous and cool and would certainly inspire me to drop kick my little heart out and have a kick-butt workout. They're even called “Marvel metallic leggings.”

Saks has them in a TON of fun colors, including the pictured ultramarine (down to lucky sizes only, but I loooove the blue) in sizes XS–XL. The brand (Heroine Sport) also offers matching bralettes, face masks, and more.

The leggings are normally $99 but are marked down to $52–$74 in the Saks Friends & Family Sale going on right now. Huzzah!

Sales of note for 9.10.24

Sales of note for 9.10.24

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Comments

  1. Travel

    With the possibility of international travel being back toward the later part of this year and next year, any interest in a thread on top destinations? what are the great places you stayed that you recommend to your friends?

    • Anon

      Ooh yes always up for talking travel! I think my top three trips were Bora Bora (super beautiful and romantic, wonderful snorkeling), Greece (beautiful scenery and great food, a perfect mix of sightseeing in Athens and relaxation in the islands) and Alaska (sooo much wildlife and adventure). I’m always up for going anywhere in Italy because I love the food and wine and people so much. Antarctica is #1 on my bucket list but we likely won’t do that until kids are much older.

      We have a milestone in August 2022 and I’d love recommendations for a kid free trip, assuming travel is more open by then. We’d love to go somewhere with great food and lots of hiking opportunities, since nice restaurants and long hikes are hard to do with little kids. I was thinking Switzerland, specifically Zermatt, but would love other suggestions or feedback on that.

      • Anonymous

        I like northern Italy and Austria (Tirol) for hiking with kids or without. Pretty family friendly if with kids and tons of wineries in northern Italy if without kids.

        Where did you stay on the Greek islands? any particular accommodation recommendations?

        • Anon

          We went to Santorini and Mykonos. Loved Santorini and especially our hotel Esperas Houses. It was a big splurge for us at the time, $300 or so a night in high season, but was a lot cheaper than a lot of other Oia hotels with cliffside views. The rooms, food, staff were all wonderful. It has a really cool cave pool that we loved swimming in. We only had I think 3 nights there and were so sad to leave. I can’t recommend it enough! I referred my parents and some friends there and they all loved it too.

      • Monte

        I will make a pitch for New Zealand. May be a way longer flight than you will want to do with kids in the near future. Stunningly beautiful country with outstanding hiking and while good food make take a little more research, it is there. Not to mention all the delicious wine.

        • Anon

          Thanks! I should have mentioned we probably only have 6-7 days to travel (we’re relying on the grandparents for childcare and two weeks is too big an ask with kids as young as ours, imo) so I think we’ll probably save this for when kids are a bit older and we can ship them off to summer camp, but I definitely want to go to NZ eventually. I went to NZ as a child and really enjoyed it but of course the experience would be very different on an adults only trip.

        • Anonymous

          +1! I dream of going back to New Zealand to hike, camp, eat amazing food (go when Bluff oysters are in season!) and drink really good wine. We did this pre-kids while living in Asia. Alas with two little kids it’s one heck of a long trek…but someday.

    • Anon

      I would like to take my cancelled May 2020 trip to Paris, but I think this fall may be too soon.

    • Anon

      One of my favorite places I’ve ever stayed in my life was Casa do Visconde Chancellieros in Pinhao, Portugal. It’s so picturesque and sits up on a hillside overlooking a quaint village and river, and it’s just gorgeous. The proprietor also set us up on a day long port tasting with a private driver for a shockingly affordable amount and it remains one of the best days of my life. This was the last vacation I took before the pandemic, so it’s been a memory I reach for a lot over the past year when I need a little burst of happiness.

      • Anon

        I speak English and can read/speak (but am not good at hearing/understanding spoken by native speakers at native speed) Spanish but not Portuguese. How hard is it to get around Portugal if you have that background?

        • Anon

          I only speak English, and my husband is a Spanish-speaking native who speaks English as a second language. We had 0 issues getting around Portugal. Spoken, the language is very different from Spanish, but in writing, a lot of the words look the same, so we were able to figure it all out. And, most of the time, everyone spoke some level of English as well. We even used the train from city to city on several occasions and had no issues at all finding our correct tickets, lines, etc. (We’re also from a place that has very poor public transit so we aren’t used to using trains/subways, and we were fine.)

        • Anon

          I speak no Spanish or Portuguese and had no problems. Everyone in the tourist sector speaks English.

    • Anon

      Peru was the coolest trip I’ve been on so far, to be honest. I would go back to the Cuzco area to do more hiking.

      • Ness

        That was my 2020 cancelled trip, any recomendation? I love hiking. I hope I could go in 2022.

        • Curious

          That was my 2020 cancelled trip, any recomendation? I love hiking. I hope I could go in 2022.

        • Anon

          The Inca trail hike is popular for a reason, so definitely do it! We used llama Path, they seemed to be one of the few companies that appropriately outfitted their porters.

        • Anon for this

          I will be the naysayer who thought Bail was…fine. We stayed at an amazing Indonesian resort and had our own villa with a a private pool. The resort, food and villa were amazing. The beaches were lovely, but not amazing. The country itself was incredibly impoverished and this made me feel bad about being tourist, even though I know tourist dollars support the economy. It was a really long flight to go to a nice beach.

          My favorite trip overall was Iceland.

          Oddly, my favorite beach trip was El Salvador. We had an entire black sand beach almost to ourselves, ate at amazing cheap food stands and tiny local restaurants (pupusas and fresh seafood), and had an all day private surf instructor (so I could repeatedly fail at surfing).

          My favorite place to return to again and again is tied between Barcelona and Paris.

          • Anon

            I was totally underwhelmed by Bali. This is snobby but the people I know who love it are generally “champagne taste on a beer budget” people. It’s easy to stay in a luxury resort for a very affordable price there (and elsewhere in Southeast Asia). I think that’s a big thrill for a lot of people who love fancy hotels and have not been able to afford that kind of accommodation in other countries. But if your budget is higher (or if you don’t care about fancy hotels), there’s much better beaches and snorkeling in places like French Polynesia, Maldives, Hawaii, even the Caribbean, etc.

          • Anon

            You’re right. That is snobby. I’m one of the Bali lovers above and it was not budget although of course that part is nice.

  2. Anon

    Hit me with your best Asheville area recs, especially food, scenic drives and hikes that are doable with younger kids. No interest in breweries. We will have a car.

    • Anon

      There are a lot of beautiful waterfalls, but a few of them are fairly close to the parking areas (like 1 mile round trip, if that), so easier to get to with tiny hikers – Hooker Falls, Triple Falls, High Falls (these three are close together), and Looking Glass Falls. Rainbow Falls is also beautiful.

    • yay Avl

      Same, especially favorite breakfast and lunch spots walkable from Montford/Courtland area. Any special dinner reservations (kid free this time) we should make ahead of time?

    • Shenandoah

      Hop on the Blue Ridge Parkway and ride around with the windows down, stopping at the overlooks and short hikes along the way. You can set up a picnic and make a day of it. There are several children’s museums in the Asheville area too.

    • Anonymous

      I had good to excellent meals at Chestnut (lunch) and Tupelo Honey (dinner).

    • Elle

      If you’re going in the summer, sliding rock is a lot of fun for kids under 10 and white water rafting is fun for kids who are a little older.

  3. Anon

    Just want to say that these leggings are amazing! I think I would just dance around my house in them or wear them to costume parties… is that worth $60? (please say yes)

    • Ellen

      I agree, but I read today in the NY Times that the average person put on 29 pounds during the pandemic. Dr. Jane Brody is always right about things, and I have no reason to doubt her here. As a result, many of us have tuchuses (tuchi) way to big to put on these leggings and be comfortable with them. I think I will only get back into leggings like these from my current sweat pants once I have lost 10 pounds (mostly in the tuchus).

  4. Anon

    University of California admissions decisions coming out this week! I have a HS senior who got into the #1 choice (and an impacted major) with a slightly early email yesterday, but now is wavering on whether that’s still The One. Please send positive juju!

    • Anon

      Good vibes! It’s such a stressful and exciting time. I still remember it vividly, even though it was almost 20 years ago now for me.

    • Anonymous

      All the good vibes to you both, from the other side of the world! UCLA sounds fab!

    • Nesprin

      The UCs are great! The UC system publishes 10% of all research papers in the world and are some of the most ethnically diverse research universities. Good vibes from another UC alumna

  5. Monday

    Did people see that Loft is discontinuing its plus sizes? It wasn’t even really announced, their Instagram account just mentioned it in response to someone’s comment on a post. I’m following this despite not liking Loft and wearing straight sizes–the plus market is strong and growing, and the trend seems to be retailers adding or expanding plus options. What’s going on?

    Customers seem to be very upset on social media, even insulted by the lack of announcement.

    • Anonymous

      I saw that but loft is a business so presumably they did the analysis and saw that plus clothing wasn’t providing them a financial benefit. It’s just capitalism.

      • Monday

        But it sounds like their plus collection fell short in some very clear ways, suggesting that they just didn’t do it well. It’s also “capitalism” to figure out what consumers want and then deliver it to keep them buying–which so many other companies are doing with plus. This is why I’m confused.

        • Anonymous

          If they didn’t do it well, it didn’t sell and now they’re giving up. Loft is so terrible that I am surprised it is still in business at all.

      • kitten

        +1 i’m always confused when people try to make it into a fatphobia thing (not saying this is what OP is doing). I promise you that Ann Taylor does not care about your size they only care about money. I could maybe see the argument against certain high end designers who want to appeal to a limited crowd. I’ve been to Loft with my mom and that’s definitely not it, lol.

        • Monday

          Right, they care about money. This is why I don’t know why they’d abandon such a major and growing market. My question is about this as a business decision (though I know it also feels personal to many people).

          • kitten

            So I was curious and googled it, looks like they are still going up to size 18 (which I thought was plus-size?). I assume 20+ wasn’t selling enough volume to justify the additional costs of production.

          • Anon

            There’s a difference between a 16 and a 16w, and an 18 and an 18w. The proportions are different and the measurements overlap so an 18 could be smaller than a 16w. It’s part of why people on the cusp have difficulty finding clothing that fits because you can’t always just go up or down a size if it’s on the wrong scale.

        • anon

          +1. Loft is a budget brand and they can’t do this in a way that’s profitable, which does suck for the plus-sized market, but it’s not a judgment on anyone’s size or shape!

          • kitten

            But it is funny to picture an employee in a frumpy Loft outfit telling a customer “you could try Sears” a la Mean Girls.

    • Vicky Austin

      Could they be preparing to spin their plus range off to a separate brand? That also seems weird, but it’s the only think I can think of.

    • Anon

      There is no shortage of people to sell to, but I think it is like you can’t just have one larger cut and hit all of the market. I think you need probably several base patterns (basically, an apple, a pear, and maybe an hourglass) and also factor in age (like styles that someone not-20 and not-30 and not-40 would wear). Good fabrics are expensive. I am guessing that it is hard to do all this well on a Loft price point with people like me who won’t buy if not on sale b/c we expect frequent sales. So maybe it is easy to miss the mark on making straight styles in just larger sizes, without accounting for a variety of body types, clothes styles, and quality-for-the-price. IDK any company that gets this really right except for places like Lands End (casual-wear) and Talbots (does women AND women petites, which is helpful b/c proportion matters), which maybe tells you something about the challenges.

        • Anon

          I don’t think that’s true, people are getting ready to go back to normal life.

          • Anon

            Eh I’m a pretty infrequent clothes shopper but I’m buying new clothes this spring for the first time in a loooong time. I think people are ready for a total refresh and that extends to clothes. Plus pandemic weight gain is real so there are a lot of people who don’t fit into their more confining clothes like jeans.

      • Monday

        I don’t know about this, though it’s a reason often given for not making plus sizes. The commenters on Loft’s accounts were saying that other brands at similar price points absolutely do it, such as Elloquii.

        I know so many clothing retailers are struggling. This decision just seems short-sighted. The majority of adult women wear plus sizes.

        • anon

          It’s probably not a coincidence that Eloquii focuses on making plus-sized clothing, whereas Loft sees it as an add-on and apparently didn’t do it well.

          Retail is a total mess right now. I’m not sure how many companies are going to fare well in the next year or two, even if they manage to survive the pandemic. My personal opinion is that many retailers try to do too much and appeal to everyone, which is why you’re seeing all these startups that have streamlined their offerings and try to do them really well. I mean, there is so much stuff on Loft’s website that I can’t even look through it all without getting bored or confused about how Shirt A is offered by the same brand that made Shirt B, as they could not be more different in style. It would be a plus for the environment (and my sensory overload) if retailers offered more curated collections.

          • Anon

            I think this is right re Eloquii. You need to live in the neighborhood to serve it well and be all-in. I think it is hard as an add-on to a main straight-sized line.

          • Anonymous

            I would rather see retailers specialize in distinct size ranges. Inclusive sizing just doesn’t work for the people near either end of the spectrum. The same style that looks great on someone who is a size 12 or a size 22 just doesn’t work on a size 2, even if the size chart says it ought to fit.

    • Anonymous

      I wonder if this decision is flowing from the bankruptcy and it is just easier to discontinue this line of business if it is a loser rather than try to justify a revamp.

  6. I returned these

    Bought these in a silver hologram color and wow were they see through. Would not recommend in a light color!

  7. Anonymous

    Has anyone had any success with serums that are supposed to help grow your eyebrows?

    I was a victim of the late 1990s/early 2000s thin eyebrows trend. But due to the pandemic I have not had my eyebrows waxed for over a year now. Although the new growth came in nicely, there is a gap directly under my brow line so I technically have four eyebrows instead of two. I’m worried that if there has been no growth there after a year there won’t ever be. I have heard about serums that are supposed to help with eyebrow growth. I’m willing to give them a shot if it will help. If anyone has had success with these serums and is willing to share I’d appreciate it.

    (Mircoblading is not an option for me. Neither is makeup to fill the gap as I can’t wear makeup to work due to working in a sterile lab or doing fieldwork outside in rough conditions)

    • Anon

      I’ve heard that Latisse works on eyebrows- may be worth checking with your doctor.

    • Anon

      I did latisse and always put some on my very sparse brows. I noticed a ton of effect on my lashes – they actually got too long and were touching my glasses, which is surprisingly annoying – but none on my eyebrows. I used it for about a year.

    • nom

      Some of the eyelash growth serums also work on brows. I haven’t used them personally, but one of my coworkers had good luck with one. (I think the brand she uses is Babelash?) She had similar “thin 90s brows” from plucking, and after a year of consistent use has quite a bit filled in. I think she does still use makeup to help even out & fill in a couple patchy spots, but she was doing that anyway to help hide the regrowth.

    • Anon

      If Latisse doesn’t work, you can try minoxidil. It definitely thickens brows if the follicles are not too damaged.

    • Anon

      I won’t use Latisse because it causes orbital fat loss, which ages you right quick. I’ve ordered some Rogaine to try on my eyebrows instead (I was a 90s teen who also overplucked).

      • Anon

        Wait, really? This is the first I’ve heard of this. Do you have any more info?

        • Anon

          Multiple studies exist, including ones that show clear difference when only uses on one side. A quick search on the usual browsers will bring them up.

    • eertmeert

      I’ve gone through two bottles of RapidBrow, which I purchased from Ulta. I really like it. My brows are thin naturally, and I have seen growth.
      The other thing I do is tine my brows every month and that helps them appear thicker. I use the Goldefoy medium brown kit. It comes with everything you need, and the whole process takes less than 10 minutes. Use an oil based remover to take off the dye, and it will wipe right off easily in a couple swipes.
      https://smile.amazon.com/Godefroy-Color-Tint-Medium-Brown/dp/B0131FFTMO/ref=sr_1_8?crid=1NYT1SOBI5GM7&dchild=1&keywords=godefroy+eyebrow+tint+kit&qid=1615921718&s=beauty&sprefix=goldefoy+eye%2Cbeauty%2C250&sr=1-8
      I use half a caplet at once, so the 20 applications is more like 40.

    • anon

      Currently using GrandeBrow and seeing great results. Areas that were previously stubborn in their sparseness are filling in nicely.

    • Anon

      I use Lash Boost on my eyebrows and it works pretty well. I notice that they look fuller, but I still fill some spots in with an eyebrow pencil.

    • joan wilder

      Tangent… I hate that eyebrow trends are even a thing, but they are real. The only reason I was not also a victim of the trend is my total inability to handle the pain from waxing and threading. But there was some painful late 80s/90s teasing where boys called me Michael Dukakis.

      • Anon

        We used to laugh at pictures of my mom from the 1960s with her thick, arched, heavily drawn-on brows.

        When she died a couple of years ago, we were going through the old pictures and my teenage daughter said “wow, grandma looked great!!!”

      • Vicky Austin

        I got told I had man brows in middle school…not even ten years later someone I barely knew at college was telling me she was jealous of my Cara Delevingne brows. Circle of life?

  8. Sister PD

    My sister was assigned a public defender for her child custody case (she does not have primary custody of her first son and is petitioning to get full custody). The reviews are bad – 1* ratings – and specific – for this public defender. I understand that people more often leave bad reviews than good, how much stock should she / we put into this? I’ve never had to have a PD, is she allowed to request a new one (under any circumstances, and if so, which?) Thank you.

    • Anonymous

      Is this a dependency case? She wouldn’t have a public defender in an ordinary custody case involving the other parent.

      • Sister PD

        It’s not ordinary in that the other legal guardian is unrelated to her or her son. It’s her ex boyfriends mother, who is not the baby’s grandmother (his bio dad’s side of the family was never in the picture), but who has been his primary guardian his whole life (essentially).

        I don’t know their current custody agreement, although I know she has the documents. It’s a lot of a mess, my sister is a disabled latina woman with a past history of PPD and drug abuse, and some shitty exes, including an abusive one who is the father to her other son. I’m not in the state (and obviously not a lawyer), but I have a vested interest in my sister getting a fair shot at having custody, even if the judge rules against her.

        • Anonymous

          If this is in the U.S. she wouldn’t have a public defender in any kind of custody case except a dependency or TPR case where the child was removed from her care because of danger to the child.

    • Anon

      I know nothing about this, but I imagine if you asked for a new public defender because the one you were assigned had bad ratings on Yelp, it wouldn’t get you very far.

      • Anon for this

        I suspect you are not in the U.S. because here there are no PD’s other than for criminal cases (that I know of, anyway). Nevertheless, in the U.S. there is a procedure for requesting a different public defender and spoiler alert — in my jurisdiction they are never ever granted because doing so would be seen as such a black eye to the public defender in question. As in, the judges are trained to “think VERY VERY carefully before you even consider granting this motion.”

        If it’s any comfort, I imagine the only people who bother to leave reviews for their PDs are the disgruntled ones.

        • Sloan Sabbith

          She might have one if it’s a parental rights termination or dependency case. Non-lawyers might not even realize there’s a difference.

          But, yeah, Yelp reviews (especially for legal aid or public defense) are notoriously bad. Because 95% of people who review their lawyers on Yelp are pissed.

  9. Anonymous

    Since you all usually have such good travel advice: I wanted to go to Glacier National Park in like August, but didn’t realize how far out you had to book accommodations in the park, so a few months ago I booked the only week I could find lodging for, which is mid-June. I figured we’d end up having to cancel due to COVID, but somewhat to my surprise, it appears we will be fully vaccinated by then. So I need to plan. A couple of questions: 1) Is a week too long to spend just in Glacier and if so, any nearby destinations people would recommend for a few days? We do like hiking, but I’m a little worried a week might be too much hiking. 2) There is a good chance the Going-to-the-Sun road won’t be fully open in mid-June. Still worth going if it’s not? And if so, I currently have reservations for hotels just in the eastern side of the park (only ones that were available actually inside the park); should I split and try to find something on the western side for a few days (which would have to be outside the park)?

    • Berta

      Glacier National is gorgeous – any place you go! I’m most familiar with the West side, so if you do get an opportunity to venture west, do so. Flathead Lake and the towns surrounding it (Somers, Lakeside, Bigfork) are so pretty.
      The Going-to-the-Sun Road is without doubt the highlight of any of my trips through that park, but there are LOTS of gorgeous trails and places to stop and explore should that road be closed.

    • Anon

      I was there in August and there was still a lot of snow in the higher areas. You may be missing a lot going that early (including the waterfalls created by melt) but that’s so weather-dependent, there’s no way to predict.

      You will be early for thunderstorm season, though, which is good because lightning strikes cause a lot of fires in the later part of summer. The air was unbreathable during a few days we were there.

      Boating on McDonald or Grinnell is fun, just make sure you are obsessive with SPF.

    • Ellen

      We were there years ago. I think you should also go to the nearby Great Teatons National Park where there are alot of mountains and places to camp. Mom and Dad took Rosa and me there many years ago, but it should still be there like it was, with large pointy mountains and very much like in Europe.

    • Shenandoah

      Hard to say whether the road will be fully open by mid-June, but it will certainly be more challenging to check out both sides of the park if it’s closed. If you have a week there (and there is plenty in Glacier to fill a week!), I would try and split up lodging for 4 days on the east and ~3 days on the west. They are like two different worlds entirely. I spent about five days there and did a lot of half-day/day hikes. Some of my favorites:

      Grinnell Glacier/Grinnell Lake – take the boat from Many Glacier Hotel across Lake Josephine and Swiftcurrent Lake to save time/mileage
      Iceberg Lake – not an easy hike but big on views
      Hidden Lake – was foggy when I went but was somehow still an unbelievably scenic, short hike
      Ptarmigan Tunnel – long hike but absurdly beautiful scenery and you feel like you’re in Lord of the Rings walking through the tunnel
      Trail of the Cedars/Avalanche Lake – short and sweet hike with a great lunch spot at Avalanche Lake

      You will have a phenomenal time whatever you end up doing! Definitely grab some bear spray when you arrive (they sell it at all of the shops); I saw a mama grizzly and her cubs while heading to Grinnell Glacier. While it was an unbelievably thrilling sighting, it also freaked this East Coaster out quite a bit. There are plenty of gorgeous short/easy hikes and just driving along Going-to-the-Sun Road lets you soak in much of the landscape. Please give us an update when you’re back from your travels. I hope to make it back to Glacier soon.

    • MJ

      The Going to the Sun road often doesn’t open until late June, FYI. There’s other places to stay near Glacier–Kalispell is only 45 mins away.

  10. Anonymous

    Any positive anecdotes about marriage counseling or reviving a struggling marriage? My marriage is not in good shape. Things weren’t great before the pandemic, but the pandemic has made it much worse. My husband is a wonderful father and partner in running the household – he does more than his share of childcare and chores and I have no complaints in that area. But I feel like we’ve basically lost our connection as spouses. We don’t have a ton of shared interests and the few things we enjoy doing together are not available now or for the foreseeable future since we’re being cautious about Covid. We rarely talk about anything that doesn’t involve our kid or household logistics. We honestly don’t even really spend time alone without our child, ever. Intimacy is basically non-existent. We don’t yell at each other very often but lately we are constantly bickering and picking at each other. This weekend was especially bad, to the point that our child told us to stop being mean to each other, which was gutting. I told him I wanted to go to marriage counseling and he reacted like I was asking him for a divorce. I don’t see them as synonymous at all, but maybe I’m being naive about that? I don’t really know what I’m asking, just feeling very sad right now. I don’t want to blow up my marriage or family, definitely don’t want to be apart from kid half the time, but I’m also unhappy and can’t imagine going on this way forever.

    • Anon

      You need time minus kid. Together for sure, and maybe some by yourself too (taking turns to watch the kid while the other person gets time off to relax or take up a refreshing hobby). This has been a rough year and especially so if you’ve been sheltering and have no help with childcare.
      Some schools and daycares are reopening. I would suggest consider getting some care for your child and take some days off to spend with each other in a low pressure way. Find activities you enjoy, eat food you like, maybe do some nature hikes or other activities still compatible with your Covid risk preferences.
      If you have grandparents that can help then do so. It may even be worth finding a trusted babysitter or nanny (take a covid test beforehand?) to take care of your child while you find some time to reconnect.
      Believe me, it will take a TON more time and childcare to fight the legal battles and divide up your assets so before you go down that route, it’s time to ring the alarm bells a little bit and make some time to connect and talk.

    • No Face

      I don’t have any specific advice, but I know multiple couples who have been where you are and improved their marriages. It is so easy to get stuck in household management mode, and this year has been terrible in many, many ways. I wish you the best of luck.

    • Lan Jevinson

      Not exactly the same situation, but I do have a positive anecdote about marriage counseling: My husband and I started going to marriage counseling last May. We had been married for about a year and a half but had undergone many stressful life events during that time (one parent received a cancer diagnosis, we moved cross-country, we were foster parents, changed jobs, etc.) and we just weren’t communicating in a healthy way. I was personally pretty depressed even before the pandemic, but the pandemic intensified those feelings even more and I became resentful and picked at him a lot. We finally got into a huge fight and then decided we needed to start seeing someone. At the time we felt really confused because we knew we loved each other and things were great 98% of the time, but the other 2% of the time we could get pretty nasty. After 9 months of counseling (for the first 6 months we did 2x/month and now we do monthly sessions) we feel like we can communicate much better. We’ve started working more as a team and aren’t as defensive. We got a lot of great tools from the counselor and it also just feels good to go have a space where a neutral 3rd-party can listen to you objectively. The counselor also gave us some ideas for how to enjoy time together too even during COVID, which was helpful because we had kind of gotten stuck in a rut of the same date ideas. I think some people assume that marriage counseling is synonymous with divorce, but we see it as an investment in our relationship. I don’t know if this was helpful, but I hope you can figure out the best way to move forward for you and your family.

    • Anon

      Hugs. This is really, really hard.
      But to directly answer your question, absolutely go to marriage counseling. It is definitely not just the first stop to divorceville. Tons of happy, functioning marriages see therapists together because it is impossible to go through a life with someone else issue free and always happy. One of my friends and her husband even go perpetually once a month as just like a clockwork check up, like going to the dentist.
      A counselor gives you that third perspective that is so often needed, and gives you and him the time and safe space to talk about things that are so hard to get the courage to talk about on your own. And they can offer cheesy but effective suggestions on actions you can take that there is no way one of you could suggest out of the blue and have it seem normal.
      If it makes you feel any better, my daughter has definitely asked us to stop fighting or to not fight when she senses it coming, and I agree it is gutting when you hear that. It definitely makes me more mindful of not getting in dumb fights in front of the kids when we can help it. But that being said, you are not alone in this; and not fighting 100% of the time is probably not realistic or even healthy to model as long as obviously it doesn’t take a truly scary turn and isn’t 100% of the time or isn’t about subjects no child should hear.

    • DC

      I have a positive anecdote. I believe that marriage counseling saved my marriage. We didn’t have luck with our first 2 counselors, but the third one has been great. I suggested it first, and my husband was not open to it. So I started going by myself. I explained to him that it was clear that things were not good between us, and I had to do something to try to fix it because I believed in us. I didn’t know if it would work, but I needed to try to find solutions. After a few months he started going too, and then we decided to find a counselor together. We were also functioning very well as a unit, but we were not functioning as a couple. We started going 5-6 years ago. It took time, and our marriage isn’t perfect, but we are so much happier now.

    • a convert

      My hubby and I did marriage counseling earlier in the year and it was wonderful. We were sort of similar, not spending a lot of time together (or spending time in the same room but not hanging out with each other), little intimacy, few shared hobbies/interests, tense conflicts and picking. Taking an hour a week just for us – just for the purpose of improving our bond and our marriage – was so healing and encouraging. The therapist also really helped us understand where we were “missing” each other, and helped us help each other remember what made us fall in love in the first place. I am so sorry that you are feeling sad and I hope you find someone who can help you. We used a lot of materials from the Gottman Institute so perhaps one of their recommended therapists would be able to help. Btw we are definitely not getting divorced and ended up wrapping up the therapy after ~3 months because we had made so much progress. Please also remember that COVID has been really hard even on the healthiest of couples and you are definitely not alone in having a hard time. I wish you the best of luck.

    • Anonymous

      I don’t have any advice about the relationship, except to give yourself some grace in the tail end (hopefully) of a massive shit storm of a year.

      But I think you and your husband should be proud of your child. I don’t know the child’s age, but it’s a good sign that they felt secure and comfortable enough to tell you that you’re making them uncomfortable and that you’re being mean. It’s a good sign that your child recognizes that this is not normal for you. It’s a good sign that you felt gutted by being called out and that your instincts say “fix this” instead of being angry or blaming others (including child). It’s a good sign that (falsely) thinking you want a divorce comes across as a negative/unwanted thing from your partner, since you also do not seem to want a divorce.

      How to get from that to working together, who knows, but you have things going for you!

    • Anon

      I will tell you the mistake I made with marriage counseling. My ex husband (I guess that alone tells you something) didn’t want to go, so I found a counselor and went by myself. She had 2-3 sessions with me, then told me there was no point continuing if my then husband wouldn’t attend, so I finally talked him into giving it a try.

      When we attended together, she already knew everything about me and spent most of the time trying to draw him out. The focus on him and his feelings made him feel like he was right about everything and only his perspective mattered. Which was the ENTIRE issue with our marriage already! It just reinforced it for him.

      So big blunder on the part of the therapist, honestly, but also on mine. Learn from me – either go to individual therapy, or if you choose marriage therapy, always go together.

      • Anon

        PS my ex husband also didn’t want to go to therapy because he didn’t want to be the one to end things. He really didn’t want to put the work into staying together but he also wanted it to be my “fault,” ie me asking for the divorce, because then he could (and did) always claim it was my idea.

      • Anon

        I completely agree with this sentiment. The couples counselor we go to also does individual therapy, but she told me up front that the minute she sees someone individually she won’t see the couple, which I mad respect.

        Alternatively I see a different therapist individually. A lot of my issues are about my relationship, and at first after a session or two she was really pushing me to bring him into the sessions. I knew instinctively that would not be right. It would be obvious that I’d had the head start with complaints and he would be basically be in a position of trying to defend himself from the get go. There is no way in his shoes I would go into that situation. I wanted the individual therapist to help me with how I internalize things and with things that I didn’t want to talk about in front of my husband, safe space or no. Luckily I think she got that message eventually.

  11. Betsy

    Can you still use someone as a reference if they have been fired? The job I was most successful in was a job where my department was made up of me and my supervisor – no one else was particularly aware of/involved in our work. My supervisor from there has been one of my most enthusiastic references, but he was recently fired for misogynistic behavior towards my replacement. Completely fair and deserved – she had the patience to deal with documenting his behavior and advocating to HR. I tried once, got shutdown, and just sucked it up and dealt with it as long as I could. My replacement is someone I’m friendly with, and she told me that they almost got a restraining order because he responded so poorly to being fired. I think he would probably still be a great reference for me (although I would probably have a friend place a fake reference call just to be sure), but will it reflect poorly on me to use a reference who has been fired?

    • Anon

      Why in the world do you want to use this person as a reference. Is there really no one else you can use?

      • Betsy

        I’m having trouble figuring out who else to use! I’ve stayed at both of my last jobs for more than five years. He’s the only person from that job who can speak to my work. Going back to someone before that job would mean someone I worked with thirteen years ago and that feels too old. It seems weird to only offer references from my current position but I suspect given the circumstances it’s my best option.

        • Anon

          Why can’t you ask the person who replaced you for a reference? She could certainly explain the situation.

          • Betsy

            We know each other because she worked elsewhere in the organization before replacing me, but we never actually worked together.

    • nuqotw

      I think in general you can use a reference who has been fired without the firing reflecting on you…but the circumstances you describe would make me hesitate if I had other good references available. Your former supervisor was not fired because the company was changing directions or poor work quality or some relatively tame reason. He was fired for harassment and the company/person involved nearly had to get a restraining order. That seems like a huge enough deal that it torpedoes his credibility.

    • Anon

      I feel like this is a made up question, but no, do not ask for a reference from this person
      1) he is showing a pattern of unstable behavior resulting in your colleague needing a restraining order, meaning you have zero idea how he will respond to a reference call on any given day
      2) do not honor someone like this by asking for their reference – that’s totally validating his past behavior

      • Betsy

        Not a fake question, but a good reminder that sometimes you need an outside perspective, especially after working in a dysfunctional environment for a while! Thank you.

        • Anonymous

          I think Anon is being overly critical. I understand, I worked with a very successful (and absolutely crazy) man for a while and I reported directly to him and no one else. When it came time for a reference I ended up using someone in an adjacent department and I wrote out some lines for them to use since they never actually worked directly with me. I either had to use an unstable man as a reference or lie, it really sucks and was as hard decision to make.

    • Anonymous

      Yes, it will reflect poorly on you. That sucks, but it’s true. Using a known, documented, fired-for-his-documented-actions misogenystic person as your reference will be a bad reference for anybody who actually knows him and/or could care what he said.

      Would recommend the archives at Ask a manager for various advice about references. Alison’s advice is often good, commentaries varies.

  12. Girlfriend Collective?

    Any experience with leggings from Girlfriend Collective? Allison from Wardrobe Oxygen had decent things to say, but hoping for a wider sample.

    • Anonymous

      so i love them! i feel like theyre pretty compressive though, so depends on if you like that (like the opposite of my aligns). i have been trying to only buy sustainable type clothing this year and have really enjoyed them. i sized up to be comfy

    • Melanie

      I bought black high-rise leggings from them when they first came out and loved them. They’re soft and comfy, but no compression back then. I have a long rise, narrow waist and bubble butt.
      I buy from Canadian company Daub and Design. Ethically made and great fit.

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