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Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: High-Rise Flare Trousers

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Don’t get me wrong, I love a slim-fitting ankle pant, but I am still really excited to work some high-waisted flares into my wardrobe this fall.

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Sales of note for 12.5

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380 Comments

  1. On an app with a firey logo, wondering whether it’s worth $30 to pay to see who has already liked me or if that’s a silly use of funds at a time when it feels like every dollar is possibly the last since the economy and job market are so rough and so many are being laid off. Can’t tell what is a silly use of money and what is a problem with not spending on myself without stress (a thing I would have owned up to before the pandemic but now it seems a thing that may be a useful skill).

    I won’t be meeting anyone in person for a long time but even the idea of having someone to trade flirty and mundane texts with would be quite nice these days!

    1. I wouldn’t pay it. If I like someone, I want it to be because their profile attracted me. Not just because they liked me first. I have a history of letting men choose me rather than doing my own choosing and it has not worked out great.

    2. I did this on Hinge and I am not sure it’s worth it. I guess it’s nice to see everyone that’s liked me, but most of them are not people I would want to date (and sometimes it’s kind of demoralizing to see that spelled out for me, whereas before I paid for premium at least there was a sense of mystery!).

    3. Are you destitute? Is $30 a crisis for you? If not, go for it. If you don’t like it, you’ll cancel!

      1. I would rather get a nice steak @ Whole foods. Who care if some guy with a weenie on a websight liked you first? That does not mean you will want to have s-x with him either, so I guess that is why I would go for the steak.

    4. I have done this before, and prefer it when seriously trying to meet people. I found that just swiping a lot sometimes would result in a bunch of matches, then I was juggling a ton of conversations, and I’d end up in a spot when I might have 3 weeks of dates planned. So, I paid for bumble boost and mostly just look at the people who swiped on me first to control the flow a little more. I actually have gotten quite down before, feeling like most of the people who had swiped on me were not people I would want to date, but that’s when I take a break for a while.

    5. I don’t recommend paying for that feature. It’s worth it for men, but not worth it for women. I paid for it before and found that the vast majority of people who liked me were people I was not interested in. So it felt like a waste of money.

      1. Most times when someone doesn’t use a word here or spells something with a zero instead of a letter or a symbol instead of a letter, it’s because the post sends to moderation and that happens much more with posts than comments. Posting early gets eyes, posting and getting stuck in moderation could mean it doesn’t post for hours and people don’t see it. That’s why you’ll often see people do this here :)

    7. I did this on Bumble and it just ended up being an eye opener to how many creeps I was attracting and how few (um, zero) decent guys. It was kind of a bummer.

  2. Covid means I am apparently now way too into dating shows, which include early seasons of Married at 1st Sight, 90 Day Fiance (and every spin-off except the most recent one as I boycott anything with gaslighter colt), Marrying Millions, and I just finished Indian Matchmaker. I know there’s Redd!t but I would love to hear people’s thoughts if they’re watchers (not sure if we can without spoiling others though). I always love deep thoughts on shallow shows from deep thinkers!

    1. I loved Indian Matchmaker, which I decided to watch after reading some posts on here about it! So interesting that none of the matches from the professional worked out. My favorite was Nadia, I thought she was so sweet! And heartbreaking in that clip where she said she was so lonely. Aparna was also interesting – I thought she kind of had a bad attitude early in the season but then seemed more genuine.

      I also loved watching Love is Blind, Too Hot to Handle, Selling Sunset and the Circle – I definitely love reality tv lol!

      1. The sexism was tough as the guys were mostly manbabies who were allowed to reject tons but the women kept being told they were too picky for valid criteria. I hope that the guy who flaked on Nadia saw the reaction to his actions and changed his ways, no one should do that to another person. I also really root for the guy who worked in the school, what a genuine nice person! (I had to find the follow up special on y0utube as it wasn’t automatically added to my netflix.)

    2. Indian here and I binged on Indian matchmaking.

      – Aparna …initially I thought she had too much of an attitude but I started liking her more and more.
      – Nadia … I really liked her but she came off as “trying too hard” and she was almost too nice. I felt the guys didn’t deserve her
      – the guys were the worst excl Vyasar. Especially the one who didn’t want to commit at all…like dude, tell Sima to go away if you’re not ready

      Don’t even get me started on the rich kid whose Mum was so desperate for him to get hitched. That’s a divorce lawyer’s dream. Sadly there are tons of rich families like that back home.

      1. This was my big question! I can’t tell how rich the families are! Markers of wealth are so different in India. Like I get that apparently Pradhyuman is wealthy but his apartment looks small and the building is so run down. And the one who doesn’t speak with the very intense mom?

        1. I don’t remember the building being run down, but come on – you are in a major metro area. Even wealthy people in Manhattan don’t have huge homes.

        2. Me too! The intense mom had all that jewelry which I think is supposed to be impressive but their kitchen was really not nice at all.

    4. I watched Indian Matchmaker, then watched a documentary by the same director (made before IM) called A suitable Girl. Really added a lot more information about women and the culture of modern matchmaking and how it affects the women involved for better or worse.-Also, it also features Sima, and her efforts to match up her own daughter, which had fascinating results (which I won’t ruin here).

    5. Yes! I have been watching all many of these, including the gaslighter Colt (tell me, how is this loser drowning in Brazilian p——y? I don’t get it)

      Indian Matchmaking was fascinating and I was totally sucked in. I definitely was enraged by the sexism. All the women needed to change and compromise. The men, not at all. The one guy, the mama’s boy in India, who got engaged broke up with his fiancée the next day, so I don’t think there were any matches at all.

      I felt for Arpana so much. She’s sarcastic and funny and not to everyone’s taste but everyone calling her a bitch on social media broke my heart. She’s successful and seems to have a great group of friends, so remind me why she needs to change so much to get a man? Good for her for staying true to who she is.

      Let’s talk about Married at First Sight on the afternoon thread.

      1. Yes to a Married at First Sight discussion. I think The Other Way is the currently the best 90 Day Fiancé.

  3. I’m wrapping up my vacation (My parents live at the beach 90 mins away from my city) and I don’t feel the least bit relaxed or refreshed. I’ve been working on the covid response and hadn’t had a day of vacation since March, but have had plenty of extreme stress and long days over the past 6 months. For weeks I mentally told myself I’d push through the craziness and then go on vacation and relax and then … vacation was not relaxing.

    I’m dreading walking back into the stress without having unwound at all.

    I have Friday and Monday off for the holiday weekend, maybe I can do something then to de-stress? I also know I need to be better about destressing during my day to day life (which is hard when working 80 hour weeks and being very careful re:covid)

    1. Aw – so sorry to hear this – what a bummer! What was it about the vacation that you couldn’t wind down – was it having to keep up with work while you were gone or too short of a break? I have started taking baths during my lunch break at home. The kids are in school and my husband works in his office and it is so nice! I usually watch a half hour show on Netflix or something but it is a break that I look forward to! Maybe try something like that (could be a walk or meditation) every day or on certain days so that you have something to look forward to? Good luck!

      1. A combo of things unfortunately- I had been looking forward to lying on the beach and doing absolutely nothing but then we didn’t really have good beach weather. I was unable to sleep in even one day (and frequently waking up at 4am in a panic).

        I love my family and we’re close but they’re not always relaxing (mom thinks idle hands are the devils handiwork, family is conservative and likes to bring up current events- I’m liberal and this causes a fight, my parents are decent but no great about covid precautions. My extended family who would stop by is not great. They all think I’m paranoid with my levels of covid precautions).

        I tried really hard to disconnect from work but had to deal with a few things. It’s also hard to disconnect when your work is constantly in the news. I was also remotely dealing with some issues at home (like bedbugs and landlord issues).

        I also think that this year was so insane it would take an act of god for me to ever feel relaxed again.

        1. Ugh that sounds really rough, and honestly not relaxing at all. I have a similarly stressful job, and now this is basically my second time doing it, so I’ve had to learn a lot. I think have morning and evening routines that you like (special cup of tea, exercise you like, nice bath products, reading a paper book) are really important. If I wake up at 4am like taht I’ve learned to force myself to go back to sleep, or at least lie in bed with my eyes closed – you need the sleep when you’re working so much. I’ve also taken a benadryl if I don’t think I”ll fall asleep nut I need to – this has to be done at like 10pm latest or you’ll be groggy.

          I also got really good at compartmentalizing. I take a deep break, and by the time I exhale, I know I’m not allowed to think about work. If I do, I rtake another deep breadth and remind myself. Some of this sounds like tough love, I know, but therapy helped here and it really worked.

          Also make sure you’re making time for you at work! Don’t start early or stay online later for appearances sake. Make sure you do your laundry. Take a lunch break.

          If you have Friday and Monday off that’s definitely a nice long weekend. I’d probably make sure I wake up late (see Benadryl + not setting an alarm), walk to a coffee shop and pick up something and go read in a park. Or whatever. Try to see some friends IF you won’t find that stressful – it’s whatever makes you happy. Binge watch one of those reality shows mentioned in another thread.

          I also find sometimes active relaxing works better. Clean your apartment, organize your stuff, exercise, things that make you feel like you did something for yourself and that you have time for yourself.

    2. I’m so sorry. Did the change of scenery help a little? I often work in rapid response/crisis situations and they are hard to remove yourself from. I also started seeing a therapist through BetterHelp app and using the Calm app for my anxiety and it made a world of difference. Some ideas: Go for a long walk with an audiobook, or call a friend; depending on your comfort level, go for some personal care appts (i just did Drybar + pedicure = life changing) with a new book or mag; see if you can get into a pool – a friend’s apt complex?; socially distant cocktails with a friend; online yoga (SaraBeth on youtube)? I hope you can find the restorative time you need!

      1. +100 to personal care appointments, getting into water (pool, hot tub, long bath – any of those would work for me), and meditation apps (I like Insight timer myself – start small). I hesitantly had some spa appointments (massage + cupping) earlier this summer when I had a lot of work stress, and they did a world of good and I was impressed/felt comfortable with the high level of COVID precautions. Every time I get body work done I strongly think I should get some kind of body work done at least monthly – i really think that would be life changing for me. I’m including hair appointments in this because I only get my hair done every 9 months or so under normal conditions, and the shampoo alone is so awesome.

    3. FWIW I find spending time with my parents to be important, but it’s not vacation! (I don’t think they recognize this, even though I am sure they felt the same about their own parents when they were my age.)

      1. Yes! In another year if I was this burnt out I’d likely do something different … however I won’t be flying or staying in hotels or anything for a while.

        I do love visiting them at the beach – spent my summers here as a kid and it truly is one of my favorite places.

        I’m mid 20s, they’re mid 50s so luckily no care taking involved when I visit but can still be aggravating! We love in the same city when they’re not at the beach and I see them several times a month. Staying overnight with them is different though!

        1. mid-20s can be toughest because you feel like an adult but they haven’t necessarily adjusted to that. (i say that an old 30s that spent 2 months at my parents during the pandemic; by your 30s, your parents have adjusted and I’m personally a little bit better about boundaries).

          For me, i find “hammock time” and baths with candles and catch up calls with friends to help the most. Indoor hammock if you don’t have outdoor space. Or a short guided meditation (I subscribe to Erin Stutland’s “the movement” for the meditations apparently because i haven’t really done the other stuff).

          Sending you good vibes and hopes you can disengage for at least 24-28 hours!! (THAT, where I lean in to ignoring work for a 24 hour period, REALLY REALLY helps me.)

  4. How do I deal with a situation at my mother’s? I recently moved in with my retired mother while WFH. She has been renting one of the rooms in her house to A, a church friend’s daughter (my age) who got a job nearby and needed a place to stay. After A moved in, it became apparent that A has some mental issues. Her parents then asked my mother to take care of her due to her mental issues, without specifying what they were. They also told us that A has a criminal assault history for hitting an ex and is undergoing required counseling for that assault. After looking up her medications, I saw that they were for schizophrenia.

    A seems friendly whenever I interact with her, but she seems to lack any consideration for other people. For example, she slams doors (including in the middle of the night), does not close the bathroom door when she is inside, sings loudly in her room until after midnight, always forgets to lock the door or turn off the stove or light, and never wash her own dishes or cleaning of any kind. She takes super long showers, and recently broke our air conditioner because she opened all the windows in the house for an entire day while we were out. On top of that, she constantly expects us to give her food, when her rent is already significantly lower than it should be and does not include food. She drinks a lot of alcohol every day, and her symptoms get worse afterwards. She is also super sensitive to criticism of any kind and seems to get hurt easily by others’ comments. And she often “forgets” to pay the rent until repeatedly asked. To make it worse, she never washes her hands until we remind her, and goes out without wearing masks, even after we repeatedly asked her to. She also seems to fall in love with random guys on social media after just texting them for a day, and almost gave one all of her money after he tried to sell some product to her. Overall, she seems very naive and does not seem to understand the social concept that one has to be considerate of others in order to be accepted. And then she gets super hurt and does not get it whenever people lash out at her for her inconsiderate behavior.

    We are told by her parents that these are symptoms of her mental illness. We asked if she could move back in with them, and they basically said it’s too far away from her work (1 hour drive each way) and that they are too tired to care for her. They also seem to spoil her and put her on a pedestal, which is probably why she is the way she is now. I have to remind myself that she has a mental illness whenever she annoys me. Because her parents are church friends, we can’t just evict her.

    I’m most worried for my mother, who is older than her parents, has a physical disability, and can’t say no. The last time I tried to say something to A, A threw a fit. My mother also got mad at me and explained that reprimanding A only makes her worse and is dangerous. Apparently, A is known for getting violent whenever she is angry and punched her parents when they tried to reprimand her. I feel that the only thing I can do now is to help my mother with the chores that A should be doing, and looking after A’s actions without getting angry. But inside, I feel this rage boiling. At this point, I might actually need to get a therapist just to deal with my stress and anger at A. I love spending time with my mother, so I don’t want to leave her just because of A.

    1. Oh boy! This is so hard and scary. You and your mum don’t have the skills or responsibility to provide the help that A needs and I can’t imagine this ending well. I think you need to talk to professionals – an elder care social worker who can help you develop a plan to get A out of your mum’s house? Is A monitored by some sort of social worker?
      A’s parents are awful, awful people doing this to your mum, and you should never trust them with anything.

    2. I would remove the mental health argument from this for a moment. She is not wearing masks, which makes her a risk for your parents’ health and for yours. What if your family reached out to her parents and said, “she refuses to comply with mask rules and with safety and we are unwilling to be exposed during a pandemic, please make other arrangements for her?” Either her parents would have to comply because they would see your family as church friends who have a very valid reason for removing her or they would argue it. If they argue that your family’s health is not as high of a priority as their child’s, then they are not the type of friends to prioritize over your family’s health and wellbeing considering everything in this situation and it might be easier for your parents to feel okay giving her notice to move. It may be easier on them if they recall that her parents knew she had a violent history, was not compliant on her treatment regimen, and she was disrespectful and yet they disclosed none of this before asking or helping to move their daughter in.

      I am 100000% with you on wanting to be kind and if she was a child in need with no alternatives, it may be a different conversation. However, she has money for others but harms your parents by taking food (and thus money) from them, she puts everyone’s health at risk with her behavior, and he is non-compliant with her mental health treatment (as evidenced by her use of alcohol). She also has a violent history. Her own parents won’t take her back which means they know she is a lot. Except she is theirs, not your parents’. She is also an adult. Your parents don’t have to risk actual death, nor ongoing and indefinite harm, because her parents are tired of dealing with their own child. Your parents are not a daycare center nor paid caregivers. (If, however, her family offered yours money to be care providers, that may be a different conversation if that’s one your families chose to have.)

      I am so sorry you are going through this. If it helps to know, no mental health or medical care provider would recommend your family prioritizing her shorter commute over your family’s mental and physical health and safety. (You could even consider calling a helpline to hear a professional tell your family that, if it’d help.)

    3. You tell the church friends that this is not working out, look up your state laws, and begin the process to terminate her lease today. This is a lease, which is a business decision; treat it that way. Do this TODAY; many states have laws requiring at least 30 or 60 days notice, and technically, if the notice brings you into a new month, you get to stay for that entire month. (So if notice means the lease ends 01 October, it actually ends 31 October.)

      A one-hour commute is hard but not impossible. Even if it were a five-hour commute, the situation is not working out and should be ended.

      1. +10000000

        As soon as you do this, contact her parents to let them know as well. Confirm both via email so you have record of when you gave notice. Ask them to come get her sooner (you can make it all about refusal to wear masks if it’s easier). Also, expect that she likely won’t pay the last month’s rent since she is often already late with it and may be less compliant if she’s mad. Plan to change the locks and such as soon as she goes since she has a violent history and since she may be giving out address information to the men she meets. If you think there may be violence, you may want to get a cheap nanny cam or something and make sure you know how to call for an emergency order of removal/protection so that situations can be mitigated if it comes to it.

        If you think she may become violent or problematic after being given notice, video the home beforehand and lock up valuables. If she at all becomes violent, you may want to have the number handy for a mental health agency that may be able to come get her. (Depending where you live, this may be different from police contact info.) (Better to be prepared with too much info than to try to obtain it in the midst of needing it.)

        Hugs as you go through something your family was set up by her parents for. <3

      2. THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

        Good Lord. Just, stop.

        Your mother absolutely does not owe her church friends this level of sacrifice.

    4. You actually can evict her even if she’s the child of church friends. They aren’t being very Christian after all

    5. Thanks all. I have been trying to persuade my mother to terminate her lease, but she refused to do so. My mother seems to view this as God’s mission for her to take care of A. But I can tell this has taken a toll on her health. This is my mom’s house, so I have no say in this. I’m trying to get the contact number for the church friend who first referred A to her to see if I can talk to them to convince A’s parents to make A leave. Any other ideas for indirect ways to get A to leave?

      1. I think it is a good idea to enlist the church friend or a trusted friend to help convince your mother. Do you have anyone else in the family who could help? Maybe getting a professional involved too who can help talk to your mom? In terms of other ideas, do you have anyone who is also close to your mom who you could say needs a place to live – maybe that would help convince your mom to make her leave if she thought the room was needed by someone else. Of course, they would have to move in but maybe they could split their time there for a few weeks or so? Or could you pretend that you are actually sick and use that as a reason for why she has to leave immediately? I know that lying isn’t the best course but this seems like a desperate situation. Sorry if these are bizarre ideas!

      2. No, it’s not your mother’s mission to take care of this woman. You should talk to a pastor and a psychologist; both of them will tell your mother that this isn’t her place and she can’t, no matter how hard she tries, fix A.

      3. It *sounds* like hoping that using A’s parents as a conduit to get her to leave is a pipe dream that is not going to happen. They are tired and have found a way to offload their problem. Agree with all of the other lawyer-y answers here that the real path is convincing your mom A needs to be evicted. Schizophrenia is serious, and your mom does not sound equipped to help A manage it in the way A needs (which most of us would not be). You could maybe frame it to your mom that given that, it is actually not kind of her to let her stay.

        1. Yeah it sounds like A still needs to live with someone and needs some degree of care and her parents are trying to foist it on to A’s mother. They’re really treating this like A went to stay with an aunt who is willing to help, not like a landlord situation 

      4. If it comes from guilt or something, I wonder if it might mean something to your mom to ask her if it’s in God’s plan for you to possibly lose your mom far before her time due to his woman consistently flouting mask rules and behavior policies. Maybe it feels selfish for her to turn this person away “for no good reason” but might feel okay and valid to send her to her parents so she can continue to be your parent. (Though only try this if you think you won’t take it personally if it doesn’t budge her.)

        I’d reach out to the church and get them involved but talk with them first to ensure they won’t double down on your mom thinking this is God’s plan. The alternative, since you now live there, is for you to wait until you feel unsafe and file a TRO. Normally this would be heavily discouraged (use eviction system, not courts) but lack of masks plus alcoholic behaviors plus a violent history IS a risk to your family and if you feel unsafe, a TRO is a smart move and it’d get her out. Maybe when things would calm down after, your mom would see how bad things were.

        1. I was thinking the first part of this too. If it were me I would focus on the prior violence and drinking as a potential way that you could get your mom’s (health at least, if not life) taken too early, in addition to the mask issue. For better or for worse I think there are enough people running around without masks at this point your mom could maybe start to wonder if she’s being the unreasonable one, but the violence and drinking combo are hard to justify/ignore.

      5. These are all good ideas, thank you all so much! Maybe I should get my mom a therapist. I just feel that the more I try to make clear the situation to her, the more she seems to hold on to the God’s mission idea. But I will try to enlist her church friends to change her mind.

        1. I wonder if you could do a joint session together to talk this through and so you can find the way to really articulate your worries in a safe space she needs to listen? Just because a) forcing her to go to a therapist by herself may or may not happen and b) since she doesn’t see the problem as clearly it seems, the therapist may not get the full picture and therefore may not help in the way your mom needs?

          If she needs convincing, you could negotiate, like look, if you agree to go to two sessions with me and it is still agreed A stays, I won’t bug you about A for x months unless something new really deteriorates with her.

      6. CEO of a mental health org here-
        Second the idea of getting in touch with elder abuse services for your mom. They can help to advocate to get A out based on safety. They would be able to get resources (legal, etc) for your mom, and also help her to get past the idea of “it’s my problem.” It’s not her problem or yours to live with.
        Also, A sounds like she needs to live in community (agency) supporting housing of some kind. If she cannot get food for herself she cannot live independently, and would qualify for that service. The elder abuse person would be able to help you navigate getting A out, connecting her with other housing services, etc. You could call your local mental health agency (I’m talking county mental health dept here not a small nonprofit) also and ask for some help with A- she may already be receiving services and her care provider may not be aware of the situation in your home. We get these calls from time to time . We can listen, but cannot confirm/deny a client is in our programs due to HIPAA. But we can listen. And then act based on the info which you won’t know directly but it could help take care of this situation.
        Also, Sending you big hugs. This is not easy stuff. You are doing your mom a huge service by sticking by her and helping navigate this.

    6. I think that you need to 100% reevaluate whether eviction is an option. I’d say at this point, the safety of your mother is at jeopardy and allowing A to remain will just be asking for trouble. That being said, depending on your state/area, there may be a moratorium on evictions. So, even if you decide to evict, you may have to wait. I’d absolutely not leave my mother’s home and leave her with someone that I had these concerns about.

    7. Depending on the church, is this something that your mother could get the pastor involved in? She/he may be able to help your mother feel less guilty about taking care of herself.

      1. +1, this is precisely the sort of situation where a pastor may be able to help – especially framing it in terms of service by connecting A to the help that she needs *and* making sure your mother is safe and takes care of herself.

      2. +1 million, provided the pastor isn’t the type to guilt parishioners into taking on things they shouldn’t.

      3. … and if the pastor or other church leadership members aren’t helping, then I would look for services in your area that can match this woman with appropriate resource and help your mom and her parents.

      4. Please consider reaching out to the church. Depending on the church, many have relationships with counselors, mental health professionals and social workers. As it was explained to me by my priest, people often come to their priest in times of need and that means they start to develop a rolodex of people that can provide more than the initial triage services the priest get called for.

    8. Obviously the only answer is to evict her. If church is an issue tell the minister she’s unstable and you’re worried for your mom’s safety and kick her out. Pack her up, drive her home, change the locks.

      Do you want to be coming back here for advice when your mom dies of Covid or gets stabbed because neither of you has any backbone at all?

      2. Completely agree with first sentence. I would kick her out. Put her stuff out in the garage/yard and call her an Uber or offer to drive her, your choice. (I’m not brave enough to drive a mentally unstable person for an hour, but maybe you are). If she refuses to go or gets violent, I’d call 911 and get her trespassed and 5150’d. Then change the locks while she’s gone for the 72 hour stint in the mental hospital. I hate to be so harsh, but I would prioritize my mother’s health and safety over this woman’s. Her parents need to step up and arrange care for her; it’s not your mother’s responsibility.

    9. Ughhh — is your Mom competent to make these decisions from a legal perspective? If not, can you get a professional to assess her. You may need to step in a way you don’t want to, but it may be the only way to help.

      I agree that A’s parents are not going to be helpful in this situation — they have washed their hands of A. The pastor and your Mom’s friends from church may be helpful. Does your Mom have any siblings or trusted friends from outside of church to talk to — they may be helpful as well as they are not invested in A or her parents in any way.

      I’m so sorry you are going through this.

    10. I haven’t seen anyone say this, but I also think that you should tell your mom that this young lady needs more than she can offer as a landlord and friend. She needs parents/guardians/caretakers who know about her medical issues and how to manage them, she needs people to help her manage her money so she doesn’t get scammed, etc. It is not doing this young lady any favors just to ignore her problems because you/mom/her parents don’t know how to manage them. Schizophrenia, if she has it, is a progressive disease that gets worse & this woman’s need for care will only increase.

      1. That’s a good comment – “if she has it”. A lot of the drugs are used to treat other conditions too (depression, insomnia).

  5. Let’s be silly…

    If you could create a frivolous law, what would it be?

    Mine would be that restaurants cannot have commercials on television during times when they are not open for business.

    (Yes, I know how commercials actually work, yes it is frivolous, but yes, it makes me crave foods I can’t have immediately that I won’t remember to go get the next time they are open LOL)

    Your turn! Any law for any reason, as long as it’s frivolous!

    1. I would ban and heavily enforce fines on people who put their bag or spread out across two seats on public transport.

    2. I love this! My law would be to ban TVs in airports, gas stations, or anywhere that has a waiting room. I cannot stand being captive to a TV set to a channel I didn’t choose in a place I have to be in. I always feel like I’m being sold things I don’t want, either through commercials or just obnoxious ideas.

      1. It should be extra illegal for the sound to be on. The sensory overload ratchets up my anxiety and discomfort.

        Which reminds me… ban speakerphone conversations in public!

      2. I will see your TV ban, and raise you a “no talking in the airport” rule. Same concept.

          1. As a semi-anxious flier I would go completely nuts if I couldn’t have a friendly chat with my flying companions at the airport. I second the no TV thing, though.

      3. YES to this. I can’t stand being forced to watch 24 hour news channels while waiting to board a flight. And the cab TVs and gas station TVs make me stabby. It’s like the bad version of the future in Back to the Future II when Biff is in charge or something and there are loud TVs everywhere.

      4. Whoever plays a cooking show in a gym is fined double! (Assuming I’ll ever be back at a gym)

        1. Yes yes. Along with that – bans on walking more than two abreast, abruptly stopping rather than pulling over, and randomly drifting around the sidewalk because you’re on your phone.

          AKA – in urban environments, sidewalks are roads and people are cars.

      2. Escalator use law: stand on the right, walk on the left. When you step off the escalator, keep walking, don’t stop right there and make people fall over you.

    4. Mine would be to standardize packaging of household goods. This would prevent the need to have to compare sizes when shopping, it would also enable grocery stores to more effectively transport and store goods, humans could have pantries designed around these sizes of goods and finally it’s best for the environment if jars are all standardized a reuse system could be put in place.

      Clearly I’ve thought about this is before.

          1. It is.

            Consider pasta. Orzo takes up less space per pound than does macaroni, and macaroni less than shells. You either put the orzo in the massive shells box, which causes problems, or you have “standard” sizes for literally tens of thousands of items.

        2. I’m sad for you that you can’t be just go ahead and be silly or frivolous for the length of this thread, or allow others to be

      3. Along these lines – 1. Small sized toiletries must be 3 oz or less. Wtf is with 3.2 oz toiletries, the whole point of a travel size product is to bring it on a plane, it’s infuriating.

        2. No giant logos/brand names on packaging for household products or toiletries. I feel like I’m being shouted at all day by my soap, shampoo, lotion, etc. (Yes I know I should decant them into better containers but that’s a pain – and also not everything can be transferred, like dry shampoo, serums, most of my makeup…).

          1. Clearly, the women on this board struggle with the idea that things might be packaged and sized a certain way because it actually makes sense and not because manufacturers are fools who need random lawyers running their entire operations department for them.

      4. Background music on Youtube hereby banned.

        All Teslas and similar must however produce noise for road safety. I propose calming piano pieces like the Gymnopedies by Satie.

    5. It is now illegal to get on the elevator before allowing everyone already on the chance to get off.

      1. Subways and trains: you MUST allow everyone to get off before getting on or you aren’t allowed to get on at all.

        1. This could out me, but I laughed pretty hard when a friend was trying to get off the train and a woman literally forced her way on first with tons of shopping bags, shoving everyone aside. He snapped at her “Jesus lady, it’s not the last chopper out of Saigon.”

    6. It’s now illegal to apply perfume or heavily scented lotion before coming to the gym.

    7. Clipping nails in public would have a fine of $10,000; $50,000 on public transportation.

      1. Adding: dropping used tissues while using transit. I saw on an Orange Line train. EWWWWW

    8. Words are not art and do not belong in frames.

      Upon arrival, stay in your seat on an airplane until the row in front of you has collected carry ons and exited.

    9. Your iPad or phone gets confiscated on a flight if you don’t use headphones. Same goes for your kids.

    11. If you don’t understand how to use an escalator (stand right, pass left) you get fined. Fines double at the airport.

      1. It’s amazing that people follow this to a tee in Japan, same for sidewalk and staircase… but just opposite side since they drive on the left

      1. And algorithms predicated on clicks, without regard to the factual validity of the content.
        Please.

    14. On airplanes, the people without luggage in the overhead compartment exit first. Once they are all off, there’s far more room for people to maneuver their bags.

    15. Ban all leafblowers! They contribute only air and noise pollution and what they do can also be done with a broom.

      1. Ban all leafblowers! They contribute only air and noise pollution and what they do can also be done with a broom.

      3. YES! I’ve always said leaf blowers are one of my biggest pet peeves. They make me irrationally angry and I cannot listen to them. Really glad to know I’m not alone.

      4. Ok but really they can’t. You can’t get fallen leaves off of groundcover like ivy with a rake or a broom. I like the rechargeable electric blowers. They sound like a hair dryer.

    16. Heavy fines and perhaps mandatory psychological counseling for not returning a shopping cart where it belongs. These people are sociopaths.

      1. I swear that fellow shoppers at ALDI are noticeably more polite and reasonable because they’re self-selected to comply with ALDI’s shopping cart coin loan system.

        2. I am not the person who proposed this, but having handled some elevator injury cases, they can be pretty grim. Contrary to popular belief, they older ones do not have sensors the entire length.

          Also, if you are in the elevator, having the door held open once is fine. 2, 3, 4 times and it just gets really annoying. There are more elevators people!

      1. I feel like there aren’t going to be any handshakes any more, so you’re good! :)

      1. Oh, no! Why? Have you seen the video of the guy who made a chalk paint race course for the neighbor kid who kept riding his bike in the guy’s driveway?

        1. That was actual sidewalk chalk (and it was amazing!). “Chalk paint” is a thing that overly precious decorators use.

      2. May I propose an amendment? Chalk paint is illegal, unless you are using it for the bedroom or playroom of a child under age 10.

        1. On the condition that a full remediation of any and all chalk paint must be completed before the child’s 13th birthday

    20. Toilet paper and paper towels are now sold and marketed in standardized sizes. No 12 =18 rolls and 7 = 10 rolls. A standard roll of TP now = X standard sized pieces. Marketers can tell me that their roll is fluffier or stronger or comes in a pretty scent, but they can’t make up new math.

    21. It is now illegal to blast the volume of a commercial on TV. And computer pop-up advertisements with sound are also illegal.

      1. I was scrolling from the bottom up and didn’t see what post this was a comment to and was SO EXCITED for a minute :(

      2. I think they actually have the commercial volume ban in some states … it was terrible here but got reigned in a few years ago …

    22. Left turns are illegal except at lights with left turn arrows and separate lanes for this.

      Painting bricks is a felony.

    23. Posting or sharing fake news (including memes) results in an instant temporary ban. Repeat offenses increase the ban length like when you repeatedly get your iPhone password wrong.

    24. If you do not wash your hands with soap for an adequate amount of time after using a public restroom, an alarm will be activated so you will be publicly shamed.

    25. No talking during movies. The second the lights go down, absolute silence. Laughing is permitted if it’s a funny movie, clapping permitted at the end. Not that I’m going into a movie theater until there is a vaccine, but my point stands. No talking.

  6. Just wanted to thank everyone for their suggestions last week! I’ve been making a big effort to make my new apartment feel like home (ex: belting amy winehouse while making an elaborate dinner and finally getting all my furniture set up and art on the walls) and I’m feeling a lot better about my new place and my decision! I am going to work a few days a week from my parents house until I get into a regular schedule of going back into the office and I think its exactly what I need to keep my mood up (and to make sure I get some social time). I’m also working on changing my mindset to accept that its okay to admit to my friends and family I’m having a hard time and to seek out more support than I would usually need.

    2. If it helps, maybe consider that you aren’t asking for help, so much as saying to your loved ones “I may look like I have it all together but I don’t always and I trust you with this information… and feel free to share when you don’t.” It’s hard to feel like others are doing super well when you’re not, so maybe you sharing with them is just letting them see how much you value them (as you are willing to be vulnerable with them, which is a gift) and it’s giving them permission not to feel okay all the time.

      Congrats on the new move! Make sure to do stuff that would annoy others like listening to the same favorite song on repeat 8x or cooking food nobody likes but you or watching garbage television! :)

    3. People at work are straight up saying that they want to do more video calls to get more social interaction. I don’t think you have to worry about telling friends and family that you need more support than normal right now!

  7. Sending hugs to Walnut and hoping others realize how much they are thought of and cared about when they share that they are struggling with big situations too.

    I know we’re all theoretically “just internet strangers,” but there’s real love here and I hope each of you feels it. We celebrate new pregnancies, new babies, and new relationships, we collectively JSFAMO bad relationships, bad bosses, and bad family members, and there are a handful or more of us with decades and generations of time here (maybe I exaggerate a tiny bit and it just feels like forever?).

    In case you haven’t heard it lately, thanks for being you. In case you need one, here’s a virtual hug. <3

    2. I love this community for all the reasons you’ve mentioned. Love to all ‘rettes!

      1. In a similar vein, can I ask…did you get the house you bid on? (That was you last week, right?) Don’t feel like you need to answer, I hope I’m not bringing up a sour subject!

        1. That was me! We haven’t heard yet. I’m hoping the sellers were taking the weekend to mull it over and we’ll know today. Thank you for asking!

    3. Aw, this is really great. Such a nice post to start the week. I agree with everything you said! *hugs*

    4. Great post! Reminds me of our positive morning poster from earlier in the pandemic.

    5. I have been thinking of her too and will regularly have a poster pop into my head who has shared a tough time, hoping they are hanging in there. Sometimes this community can be hard on its members, but other times, it can be very supportive, and when it is, it’s really a beautiful thing.

    9. Completely agree, and appreciate all the support and helpful advice I’ve received here. Always striving to pay it forward.

    10. Thanks everyone! I’ve been reading this site for 10 years? Maybe longer? I’ve learned so much and think fondly of many readers who have come and gone over the years. I’m cheering for all of your as well and deeply appreciate that Kat has fostered a place where we can come together to support, debate, and seek out perspectives.

  8. If you are back in the office and the next nearest occupied desk (a cube with a partition that is up to eye level) is 6 feet from you, would you expect to (or want to) have to have everyone wearing masks while at their desks?

    Assume everyone is wearing a mask while up and around. I’m specifically talking about while seated, talking to one another over the cube walls and constantly on the phone given the type of work we do.

    1. I don’t know if I would expect it (because so many people do the bare minimum), but I would strongly prefer it. Now that we know the virus is airborne, I don’t think it makes much of a difference, unfortunately, if you’re six feet away if you’re sharing the same indoor air space for more than 15 minutes.

    2. Yes to masks at all times. Those partitions aren’t doing anything and 6 feet isn’t a magic number.

    4. I would expect masks.

      For context, I live in Boston and I get the impression that my neighborhood has way higher mask adherence than even the suburbs or other neighborhoods in the city, and definitely way higher than other regions of the country. Even early in the morning for solo runs / walks, everyone is wearing a mask. I haven’t seen a person without a mask on in a public indoor setting (regardless of distance from others) since April.

    5. Our office is like this and we do not have everyone wearing a mask at their desks, but they are required to in common areas. I’m comfortable with the situation, given that our management is keeping us about 50% capacity daily. When people stand up to talk, or walk over to the cube, both parties are putting on their masks.

    7. masks at all times, shared indoor air for a workday means plenty of virus could be circulating around in the ambient air.

    8. My office is like this, and we’re required to wear masks unless actively eating or drinking. Compliance is not super high, but I still feel comfortable.

    9. I would want masks at all times. Otherwise, that’s potentially increasing viral load in the space. As others have said, 6 feet isn’t magic and absent fresh air coming in and old air going out, a mask would help keep concentration of droplets in the air to a minimum.

    10. Thanks, everyone. I needed the gut check. I think I also just discovered it’s a requirement of our state (Massachusetts) reopening plan that both 6+ feet of distancing and masks must be worn indoors. I’m squarely team mask indoors, no exceptions.

    11. yes, masks. this is why i won’t let DH go back to his office where masks are not even required when walking around or in common areas like the kitchen

    12. Theoretically, I would be fine with it as long as people are wearing masks while walking around and/or visiting colleagues’ cubicles. After all, that is what restaurants are allowing in my state and many others (wear a mask to your table, remove it when beverage or food arrives).

      In reality, I am working from home at this time with very rare exceptions (in-person meetings 1 or 2x per month, always fully masked) so it’s possible that I would feel less comfortable if I were actually in that situation.

  9. Does anyone subscribe to the Weekly Dish by Andrew Sullivan? He wrote a piece about the Democrats walking into a law and order trap that was sent to the list serve on Friday and I can’t stop thinking about it. He argues that by not cracking down on rioting and looting, Democrats will be poised to lose support among most voters and that a second Trump term will spell the death knell for democracy. A lot (not all of it) rings really true to me and it’s terrifying. I found a link online, excerpts below too:

    https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/the-trap-the-democrats-walked-right

    Rioting and lawlessness is evil. And any civil authority that permits, condones or dismisses violence, looting and mayhem in the streets disqualifies itself from any legitimacy. This comes first. If one party supports everything I believe in but doesn’t believe in maintaining law and order all the time and everywhere, I’ll back a party that does. In that sense, I’m a one-issue voter, because without order, there is no room for any other issue. Disorder always and everywhere begets more disorder; the minute the authorities appear to permit such violence, it is destined to grow. And if liberals do not defend order, fascists will.

    Here is a quote from Yoom Nguyen, owner of the Lotus Restaurant in Minneapolis, who just witnessed a second assault on his business: “Watching looters bust down our family restaurant is so heartbreaking. Senseless, they’re doing it while laughing and smirking. Not gonna lie, I damn near shot a man tonight. He threw that fucking rock at my family photo and looked right at me. I said ‘you motherfucker …’ tears immediately rolled down my face. I just can’t no more. I’m thankful I walked away but Fuck y’all.” This is how violence metastasizes. And as I’ve watched protests devolve over the summer into a series of riots, arson expeditions, and lawless occupations of city blocks, along with disgusting and often racist profanity, I’ve begun to feel similarly. And when I watched the Democratic Convention and heard close to nothing about ending this lawlessness, I noted the silence.

    I don’t think I’m the only one, as even the Democrats seem now to realize. And this massive blindspot is not hard to understand. When a political party finds itself so wedded to a new and potent ideology it cannot call out violence when it sees it, then it is walking straight into a trap. When the discourse on the left has become one in which scholars and editors and Tweeters vie with one another to up the ante on how inherently evil America has always been, redescribe it as a slaveocracy, and endorse racist books that foment the most egregious stereotypes about “whiteness”, most ordinary people, who love their country and are mostly proud of its past, will rightly balk. One of the most devastating lines in president Trump’s convention speech last night was this: “Tonight, I ask you a very simple question: How can the Democrat Party ask to lead our country when it spends so much time tearing down our country?” A cheap shot, yes. But in the current context, a political bullseye…

    And let’s be frank about this and call this by its name: this is very Weimar. The center has collapsed. Armed street gangs of far right and far left are at war on the streets. Tribalism is intensifying in every nook and cranny of the culture. The establishment right and mainstream left tolerate their respective extremes because they hate each other so much.

    The pattern is textbook, if you learn anything from history: an economic crisis resulting in mass unemployment; the pent-up psychological disorders a long period of lockdown can and will unleash; a failure of nerve on the part of liberals to defend the values and institutions of liberal democracy, and of conservatives to keep their own ranks free of raw demagogues and bigots. But critically: a growing sense of disorder and violence and rioting as simply the background noise; and a sense that authorities do not have the strength or the stomach to restore order…

    1. Are you trying to make yourself feel better about picking ‘order’ over you know, democracy and basic human rights for people? Because you shouldn’t. DJT is clearly intentionally stoking the flames of unrest. He could exercise a calming influence but performs to support armed white militias instead.

      You seemed to have missed the right wing authoritarians stoking unrest and encouraging vigilantes as an excuse for a ‘law and order’ crackdown in those textbooks you purport to have read.

        1. Right but OP is clearly supporting it by bringing it here. If it wasn’t her view, she wouldn’t be bothering to initiate a discussion about it without making it much for clear that the article is clearly a racist AF excuse generating for white women to feel less guilty about voting for DJT again.

          1. Wait, you don’t think people can share something they don’t agree with? It was pretty clear OP doesn’t support Trump in the original post.

          2. Where did OP make her opposition to Trump clear? She doesn’t say that. She only references “A lot (not all of it) rings really true to me and it’s terrifying.” but it’s not at all clear whether she is referencing the riots as terrifying or the prospect of a continued Trump presidency. She never says ‘I’m really worried Trump might win’ or something.

          3. I’m OP and in case it wasn’t clear, I am a Biden supporter (formerly a Warren supporter) and I am afraid that Trump will win because of the extreme divisions and tribalism in our society now, which are definitely stoked by Trump but will not be solved by him. I did not vote for Trump in 2016.

      1. Source: From wikipedia:
        Citation needed. Here’s one from wikipedia:
        In Current Affairs in 2017 Nathan J. Robinson said that Sullivan:

        …helped midwife The Bell Curve and grant flimsy race science a veneer of intellectual respectability. He still believes race is a reasonable prism through which to view the world, and that if only our racial stereotypes are “true,” they are acceptable. He is therefore an unreliable and ideologically-biased guide to political and social science. He is also a racist.[92]

        [92] https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/04/andrew-sullivan-is-still-racist-after-all-these-years

        1. Nathan J. Robinson is pretty hard-left and has an ax to grind. I went to school with him. I don’t deny the point about Sullivan because it can be verified elsewhere, but you could find a better source.

          1. That’s helpful.

            I just went to wikipedia and grabbed the related text — I actually don’t know much about Andrew Sullivan. Do you have a better source?

        2. NYT just did a great profile of Sullivan yesterday. It sounds like he still holds a lot of pretty offensive and potentially racist views.

    3. In Portland this weekend, they shot a man dead for being a Trump supporter. “I found a Trumper!” Then bang, bang, and the man was dead for supporting the President.

      Rand Paul authored the Justice for Breonna Act and was surrounded by a mob last week, a mob who believes that because he’s Republican, he does not support justice for Breonna Taylor. Paul was assaulted by his neighbor for being a Republican and was at the baseball diamond when Steve Scaliase was shot. Yet the ‘mainstream’ media doesn’t care.

      Meanwhile, speaking of Breonna Taylor, the Kentucky AG is doing extremely careful work. Ballistics tests just came back (because real life isn’t a TV show wherein tests come back 10 minutes later); they are establishing a pattern of warrant abuse in the Louisville police; and they are making sure that what they charge matches what they can prove so they don’t end up with an acquittal for overcharging. Yet the mobs are screaming for blood and calling the first African-American AG in Kentucky a raging racist for not having yet, I dunno, charged the guys with capital murder without evidence to back it up.

      Is the problem that the Democrats might lose, or is the problem that a whole swath of people think that our justice system doesn’t matter? It’s one thing to say “our principles are X and this group of people are not being treated in accordance with them,” which is fair and reasonable and just; it’s another thing to say “We should abandon principle X because it’s not convenient.”

      1. This is lies. He was not attacked by a mob. His neighbor punched him for many reasons none of which are politics.

      2. “They” shot him? Who shot him? Who is “they”? Did more than one person shoot him? How do you know this? As far as I’m aware, details about who shot him and why have not been released, if they are even known. Did someone really say “I found a trumper” and then go bang bang? That seems unlikely to me. How do you know this?

      3. The guy who got shot in Portland was macing people. Those people fought back. Or do you believe that self-defense rights are just for the right wing milita?

    4. I am really worried as well, Biden-Harris can’t get elected without putting massive distance between themselves and the actual BLM reform proposals.

      1. But according to many of the posters on this thread, that makes Biden and Harris massive white supremacists who must be removed from power immediately. I’m so worried.

      2. I encourage you to turn this on its head. If Trump owns the narrative (“Biden is not tough on crime”), you’re right.

        If YOU own the narrative — you are talking to your friends and family and neighbors who are undecided — you can point out:
        – Biden actually wrote Clinton’s omnibus crime bill. If anything, it’s *too* tough on crime (it caused private prisons and militarization of police to soar, doubling the US incarcerated population and contributing to the creation of immigrant detention centers. Source — 13th)
        – YOU are voting for Biden because you believe that he will [pick from: restore decency to government, give us a chance to recover from coronavirus, help the environment, form a great team including people you really support, choose judges who are qualified for their role, etc…]

        This is how we win elections — the hard, door-to-door (or zoom-to-zoom) work of calling and talking to people and letting them know a candidate cares and that people they respect, who have concerns like theirs, are voting for that candidate. Don’t let dog-whistlers set the tone. YOU own the story.

    5. First, this equates looters to protesters when they are 2 separate groups.

      Second, this equates property with people’s lives… are they not 2 separate groups of priorities?

      Third, there is proof that trump’s own side has been sending looters and violence into protests to create havoc.

      Fourth, defending order when that order is systemically meant to be harmful to specific groups is not order, it’s prejudice and if you are defending that (especially over understanding why others do not and over the right to speak out against it), then you aren’t a one-issue voter, your vote is for order that maintains the systemic oppression of marginalized communities and all that comes with that.

      Lastly and mostly, there is no center because a person cannot consider themselves center when they refuse to make a choice between continuation of systemic oppression and its practices and making changes to recognize and correct the way society was set up to support some groups and do all it can to hinder others. I can be a loving person in theory, but if I voted for those who systematically and intentionally cause harm to you or to people you love, why would I be surprised when you wouldn’t identify me as “loving?”

      trump made it clear that there are now only two groups of people; those who vote to continue the ignoring of science, the undermining of media, that opinion equals truth, and that some groups of people are better than others, and those who will never consent to accepting those. This is also not just him; this comes from all he put into leadership positions and all who were always in this belief system but who had previously been taught to at least try to hide it better and not behave so brazenly.

      Why do we see the military as “they tear ya down to build you up better” and that’s something we should honor and support but those same people see the work of protesters as “they’re just tearing things down for no reason and they must be stopped?” Why would anyone want the continued now recognized and acknowledged systemic problems to continue indefinitely rather than to want to make this nation better, especially considering that our own Constitution was written with recognition that change and evolution must always happen for this country to be what it was founded to become?

      1. Your false dichotomy is going to make Trump win. Under your definition, the many immigrant-owned businesses that want the police to protect their shops and play a role in the community the rest of the time are tantamount to white supremacists who actively want racism to flourish and black people to suffer. That isn’t true. It’s an extreme definition that will turn average people away from the party that’s doing the best of either of them.

      2. Order isn’t systemically designed to oppress anyone. It allows people to live their lives. When drug dealers are arrested and prosecuted, children can walk to school more safely. When looters are arrested and prosecuted, small businesses, many of them minority-owned, can stay open. Shrugging about the recent riots and looting and accepting it as a valid response to racism is such a privileged position and shows you know nothing about the actual day to day struggles of low income people.

        1. I agree with this. Study after study consistently shows that women and children of color living in poverty (and also the elderly) want order in their communities and prioritize quality-of-life interventions, such as preventing large groups of teens from loitering in the hallways, over other kinds of policing. That’s not to say that they don’t also have legitimate criticisms about racial bias in policing, but they’re not calling for abolishing the police the way the Twitterati are.

          1. Can you cite a source? This is different than what I’ve heard and seen particularly from the US Black community (different for Asian and Latinx, I’ll give you that). But I’m happy to be swayed by facts.

          2. +1. BLM is like Farakhan in the 70s, representing the more radical views on how to attain reform. Don’t assume that because they have a massive megaphone that they represent the only views of a complex community,

          3. @Curious – Ghettoside, a book by Jill Leovy (longtime LA Times crime reporter) delves into these studies and this mindset. I can’t cite her sources and my copy isn’t at my fingertips, but I’d highly recommend the book for a nuanced look at policing in a big city in a way that is a bit outside of the current echo chamber discussion.

        2. Yes, order is supposed to work a certain way in theory. Sadly that’s not the way it’s playing out in reality for numerous communities in this country.

        3. Anon @10:16, how does your equation work when the police, who are supposed to be the ambassadors of order, are the perpetrators of violence and disorder? Because that’s where we are now. Even if you equate peaceful protests with looting and destruction, all of it is in response to police violence. Order may not be designed to systematically oppress anyone, but in many places, the police are.

          1. If you’re looking for data to back up NYNY’s commentary, consider watching Ava DuVernay’s 13, which I also recommended downthread. I’ve watched it with several family members who went on to pass it on; it’s very well-done. (And I’m really not normally a documentary person)

    6. So the violence and rioting are happening on Trump’s watch (and in some cases with his blessing) but the Dems are to blame for not fixing it? Sounds like you’re searching for a justification to vote for a white supremacist rapist and his family of grifters, who have already proven themselves incapable of or disinterested in fixing the problems they’ve created. You want peace? Justice works better than fascism.

      1. Absolutely not. I’m a former Warren supporter, now Biden supporter, and I’m worried about how Trump has destroyed our institutions and how Dems don’t seem capable of fixing them. Yes, Trump broke it, but he’s not going to fix it so who is? I also don’t want to see Dems push themselves so far to the left that they turn off moderates completely, sue me.

        1. Hahahahaha no one seriously believes Joe Biden is an anarchist who doesn’t deeply believe in law and order. Have fun pot stirring though!

          2. +1

            LOL yep, old Radical Joe. Makes Bernie look like a moderate who wants slow, incremental reform. Saints, preserve us.

          4. Consider watching Ava DuVernay’s 13th for an alternative to the Sullivan perspective.

    7. Okay? I don’t deny that people feel this way but it’s so wrong-headed IMO. I didn’t read the whole article but in the excerpts you posted there is not one mention of two other major factors that are contributing to this situation and deserve attention: 1) systemic racism and excessive force used disproportionately against black people; and 2) the role of the police and the federal government in exacerbating the violence and disorder associated with these protests.

      I just don’t understand how you can claim to be liberal and yet go along with the right’s attempts to shift the conversation away from whether black lives matter to “looting and rioting is bad.” No kidding, of course it is. While we cater to the feelings of white people out there who are wringing their hands over property destruction, please don’t forget the BIPOC who are tired of living with systemic racism and watching people get killed by the authorities that are supposed to protect them. (Do you really think that the “law and order” message is legitimate when there are whole sectors of our society who feel they cannot depend on the police to defend them?)

      I’m sorry, I just can’t get as worked up about isolated instances of property damage as I can about systemic racism, especially where we’re talking about black people dying needlessly by the hand of civil authority and then society shrugs.

      “[Police brutality, extrajudicial killings, and discrimination] evil. And any civil authority that permits, condones or dismisses [police brutality, extrajudicial killings, and discrimination] disqualifies itself from any legitimacy. This comes first. If one party supports everything I believe in but doesn’t believe in [human rights and equal protection under the law] all the time and everywhere, I’ll back a party that does. In that sense, I’m a one-issue voter, because without [respect for human rights and equal protection under the law], there is no room for any other issue. [Discrimination and disregard for human rights] always and everywhere begets more [discrimination and disregard for human rights]; the minute the authorities appear to permit such violence [and discrimination and disregard for human rights], it is destined to grow. And if liberals do not defend [human rights and equal treatment under the law], [no one] will.Here is a quote from [ ], a black person, who just witnessed a[nother] [murder of a black person by the police]: “Watching [police] [kill] [yet another black person] is so heartbreaking. Senseless, they’re doing it while laughing and smirking, [white people rush to defend them, people say that the black man deserved it for failing to obey, dredge up criminal history, and deny that systemic racism exists and pretend like black lives don’t matter]. Not gonna lie, I [would have wanted to shoot Chauvin]. He [pressed his knee on George Floyd’s neck until he died]. I said ‘you motherfucker …’ tears immediately rolled down my face. I just can’t no more. I’m thankful I [wasn’t there] but Fuck y’all.” This is how violence metastasizes.”

        1. +1

          And I would encourage the OP who is worried about Biden’s chances to take action, because that’s what’s going to get Biden elected — not comments online. Things you can do:

          (1) Make sure all of your family and friends are registered to vote, especially in the Midwest, Nevada, etc., and that they have a plan for voting. I apply this more strongly to family likely to vote Democrat :)
          (2) Download the Vote Joe app and place calls (or text people, though for heaven’s sake I am tired of generic text bank messages… yes, I’m involved, I got it)
          (3) Support organizations like Voto Latino that are working to reduce barriers to voting for groups that are historically less able to get to the polls.

      2. I just want Biden to win. If saying “hey all racism is a hoax” would get rural whites to vote for Biden, I’d be all for it, then turn our attention to police reform, drug policy reform, and other key policy issues in November. I get that others won’t agree with me and that the principle is the first thing we should consider. I truly get that and was there myself until recently. Now, literally all I want is to get Biden in the White House and I would do or say anything to get the largest number of voters excited for that.

        1. Yeah, so do I. But can we please stop pretending that everything is about getting the elusive rural white vote, though? They are still holding this country hostage (“better not alienate me or be too uppity or I’ll vote for TRUMP and you’ll really hate that, hahahah! Oh wait I have economic anxiety ehhhhh) and for the life of my I cannot figure out why we allow this. “Oh dear, oh me oh my, how do we get the bigots to side with us?! Should we pretend racism isn’t a problem?” You know this wouldn’t actually work? 1) it would be a lie and 2) it would turn off others. There’s a plenty of better things you can do to help Biden win, as Curious kindly pointed out, than advocate that we abandon principles or straight up lie.

    8. Good for you? Last I noticed though only one side was stoking the division and asking for his armed supporters to show up to counter protest. But you do you.

    9. It strikes me that all this “law and order” and “Democrats ruin cities” stuff is, at best, an argument to elect Republican mayors. It makes no sense that national Democratic forces have encouraged widespread chaos that is occurring on Trump’s watch. If anything, Trump’s naked incitement of racism and violence have encouraged both systematic racism that lead to these protests and the vigilante chaos and destruction that followed them. Worst of alll, his campaign as been fairly transparent about encouraging increased violence for political gain. Also I’m fairly certain this author you’re quoting has aid some pretty explicitly racist things .

    10. I do not subscribe to the Weekly Dish, but I just read an article in the NYT about Andrew Sullivan. The article, and the reader comments, are thought provoking. I am always interested to read things that challenge my thinking, even when I disagree with them. Perhaps, even more so when I disagree with them because crafting my arguments forces me to consider them more deeply.

      I will not vote for President Trump because he is incompetent. I am not voting for Mr. Biden, I am voting against Mr. Trump. There is an important difference here. I hope the Republicans keep the senate so the far left Democrats get nothing done.

      I abhor the current violence, looting and fires. And for everyone who says that it is OK because reasons…you’re no better than those rioting and looting in the streets.

    11. And here we are arguing about law and order–Trump is a genius at deflection. His complete botch of the covid crisis has left millions unemployed, sports wrecked, college re-entry spawning mass infections, and back to school shaping up to be chaos in a few weeks. But let’s talk about law and order.

      1. I mean yeah, it’s total BS, but we should be talking about anything, no matter how absurd, that could help Trump win so we can try to stop it.

      2. And let’s be a real a lot of the looting etc. that we’ve seen which is not BLM but others who take advantage — i.e. cops are tied up at a BLM protest — ok time to go loot some other neighborhood — are people who simply have no other place to be. No jobs, no school, feeling like they’ll never get a job or education again, so yeah why not take advantage of a system that’s let them down by grabbing a TV which they’ll sell on craigslist and get some cash. If rich people are getting theirs via the stock market and cushy work from home jobs, they’ll get theirs by stealing some sneakers and phones. Had the covid response not been botched so badly and had unemployment/fed benefits been better and more consistent (we’re on what week 6 of the gap since ppl last got the extra fed unemployment?), things would have stayed calmer because the disparities wouldn’t have come out like this.

      3. +1000. You’re doing the GOP’s bidding if this is what you’re choosing to be outraged over.

        1. No, you’re doing the GOP’s bidding if you don’t care about something controversial that a lot of people are saying is a voting issue for them. Do you literally want Trump to get elected? If so, keep on promoting the hardest-left policy positions you can find and accusing anyone who is skeptical of being a virulent white supremacist.

          1. …….who is saying that mainstream democrats “don’t care” about this? That’s a straw man. Also, why did you randomly segue into accusing people of “promoting the hardest-left policy positions you can find”? What specific “hardest left” policies do you think that anon at 1:10 or anyone on this board or Joe Biden are promoting? Because I think you’re just leveling random accusations at people to try to blame them for Trump’s ascension rather than putting the blame where it belongs — on the people who vote for him. No one makes anyone vote for Trump, and I’m tired of trumpies failing to take responsibility for their own choices. “Mehhhh they called me a bigot so I voted for Trump! That’ll show them I’m not a bigot! You were mean to me so I’m going to do something you won’t like!” “I prioritize property rights over human life so I’m going to vote for Trump because some businesses in cities I don’t live in got wrecked while people were protesting racial justice! I mean, racial justice is cool and all (but why didn’t he just do what the cops said) and maybe I would have voted for Joe but someone burned a gas station somewhere!! So now I won’t vote for a party that supports dismantling systemic racism. Because gas station fire. Law and order!”

          3. Ok but the only reason you care about LAW AND ORDER more than the other stuff KP listed is precisely because you *are* a white supremacist. You can spout off whatever excuses you need to soothe your own conscience but I see you very clearly for what you are.

          4. anon at 2:14, this thread is about NOT wanting to get Trump elected, but you’re probably just a Russian bot trying to stir the pot. I see you very clearly for what you are.

          5. @2:27 – thanks for the belly laugh! Sorry to disappoint but I’m writing this from my home state of NC, which I hope will go blue like in 2008.

            If my statement that you sound like a white supremacist is making you mad enough to hurl nonsensical insults, you may want to sit with that to figure out why it touched a nerve.

          6. Anon at 2:46, I’m personally going to be really pissed at you when Trump wins. I hope you’ll find your absurd attacks AGAINST BIDEN SUPPORTERS worth it then when we’re stuck with him for four more years. I can only hope you don’t speak to swing voters in such a cruel and unhinged way.

          7. OMG 2:58 are you okay? You seem to be twisting and misunderstanding everything in a way that is particularly alarming. The other anon is asking you to consider why you’re being so vitriolic and you just keep escalating the rage. If you feel attacked, then that’s on you personally. This Biden supporter has no problem with what she wrote.

    12. I see the point. The election will not be won by the most left leaning voters not voting for Trump. They voted for Hillary in 2016 and it wasn’t enough.

      The election will be won by moderate voters in a handful of key states deciding not to vote for Trump like they did last time. And I believe those voters are very sensitive to things like looting.

      You can stand on your liberal beliefs and point out that looting is the last refuge of the disenfranchised and all that stuff that I agree with as a lefty, but honestly, I’d rather win the election.

    13. No, this isn’t Weimar, because America is not Germany in the early 1900s. It does not have the same social and historical conditions. Waving a wand around like this doesn’t actually help us clarify or address our problems, it distorts them. Do you remember particular disorder when Obama was in office? When Bush was? No. This is a Trump problem, and the disorder is coming from the far right, which he actively encourages. You want law and order? Then you cannot vote for Trump. The pattern is not textbook because this is a new situation in America. We have never encountered a thing quite like Right Now before.

  10. Can anyone recommend an easy water tracker app? Something where I can open and just tap to enter a glass of water?

    2. Wouldn’t a post-it on your desk and tick/hash marks be easier than opening up an app every time you need to log a glass?

      1. No. A- I’m a messy person trying to keep my desk which is also my kitchen table from being covered in post it’s. B- I’d like to be able to look back and see how I did.

        But the my fitness pal recommendation was great- I already use it but hadn’t found the water feature.

      2. Sure but some people like technology and the gamification can help with healthy habits.

    3. YES — I started getting dehydration headaches and tried out a bunch. the best/easiest I found is called “Water Tracker”; the icon is a blue drop of water in a blue circle on a white background. not a lot of bells and whistles, just the ability to tap and track your water (although you can also set push notifications to remind you to drink, if you want).

    5. the easier option is to fill a few water bottles every morning that has your total amount for the day.

    6. You could make yourself a google form and save it as a shortcut on your home screen. That way you gather the exact data you want and can use sheets or the built in graphs to see your data.

  11. Reposting from weekend thread hoping for more responses. Since then, I’ve found out that the two states in question don’t have payroll tax reciprocity…

    My husband and I are planning to relocate to another state. Before the pandemic, we had planned to move and obtain new jobs, but now that we’ve been working from home and have seen how well things have gone, we’re going to attempt to keep our current jobs and go remote. What are some of the things we should be aware of before going to our supervisors to request permission for this? Any tips for framing the request? Do you recommend laying out a written request first and then scheduling a conversation to discuss or should it be done more casually?

    For context, husband works in a very specialized tech job on a team that has found it quite hard to recruit qualified people in the past (and he just got an excellent performance review). The organization has a few people who work remotely full-time, but it’s not really part of the culture and it’s unclear (although there are some positive signs) whether leadership will want to pivot to more WFH post-pandemic. Our company CEO is a known WFH-hater, but word on the street is that she is softening her attitude (and she also just bought a vacation home and appears to be enjoying working from there). We have one employee who works remotely already (a “special case”) and that employee is my supervisor. I am also on track for an excellent performance review and just got a large bonus (not on the usual Christmas bonus schedule) so I am hoping I can make the case for myself as another “special case.” I know my team doesn’t want to lose me, although I don’t know if that will be enough to overcome the boss’s historical objections to WFH.

    If the requests aren’t approved, we’ll quit and get new jobs, but we’re both really enjoying WFH and would like to continue if possible. Thanks in advance for any tips.

    1. You got tons of advice! The only real answer is none of us know. Make sure you have enough cash to survive unemployment and make the ask.

        1. The Ask a Manager blog has a lot of advice on asking to WFH.

          Also making sure you have enough cash to survive unemployment before the ask is a good piece of advice.

        2. I agree with Anon 10:13. You got a decent amount of feedback last time. There isn’t a magic answer on this. Your follow up post doesn’t show that you’ve done any of the leg work suggested in the original post like checking out the tax situation so you can have solid info to back up your ask or mitigate concerns your company may have.

          1. Did you see my update in this post that I did check out the tax situation? Please feel free to collapse the thread if you think it’s dumb I asked again.

        3. I have seen this go both ways – folks who were turned down and others who were approved. Here are the factors that seemed to matter most:

          -Taxes and whether there is an office in your new state.
          -Reason for moving…sick relative or spouse job transfer? OK. Just feel like moving? Mixed result, especially if the tax issue is not in your favor.
          -Stature at job/likelihood of promotion. Working remotely may kill your chance at promotion so the company may reject the request.
          -Length of time remote – is this forever? My company has been OK with shorter stints up to a year but balks when someone wants to move permanently.
          -How easily replaceable are you?
          -Time change/other considerations. Will this inconvenience your boss/team in any way? If you move from NY to CA, be prepared to work NY hours. Make that clear during your ask.
          -Special case – why is your boss a special case? Knowing that would be helpful to frame your request.

          In your shoes, I would reach out to boss about this casually (for my boss that would be a call), assuming our relationship is good and I can trust her not to go to CEO unless we decide together that makes sense. Ask for her thoughts about whether this is doable. Lots of people are reconsidering their lives these days. Take your cues from her and go from there. Ideally she could leverage her power to make this happen for you. Of course, you should try to make it easy for her by thinking through the above factors nd any job specific considerations only you know. Ultimately though, you just gotta pull the trigger and make the ask. And be prepared for the worst case – being let go of this doesn’t pan out, especially if you make clear that you will quit if they don’t agree.

          1. I agree with starting with a casual conversation to see if the idea is even remotely feasible. Don’t ambush your boss with a long, structured argument first thing.

          1. Honestly if this is how you react when people don’t give you the answer that you want, it’s probably better for your to just quit your job instead of being rude to your boss and burning that bridge.

    2. I asked to work from home full time when we moved to another state a few years ago. The CEO was generally against working from home but did make some exceptions for people in the past who would otherwise leave their jobs. I first went to my boss who went to his boss who thought it would work best if I talked to the CEO directly to make a personal appeal that would be harder to turn down. At first, the CEO wanted me to become a contractor for a temporary period before I got a job in the new state. I think he assumed I just didn’t want a period of unemployment, but I convinced him I wanted to stay at the company long term and the move has to do with being close to family and we were planning on buying a house and settling down so this was a well-thought our permanent type of move. It was a hassle for my company to deal with taxes in another state so I think the CEO wanted to be sure this was a one-time move.

      I think you can push past resistance but be willing to explain yourself and show your reasoning and address any concerns they have with a 1-1 conversation. It worked great for me – I used to have an hour and a half commute each way and now work from home.

        1. I’ll add that it was definitely stressful and took the CEO weeks to finally decide. It wasn’t an automatic yes but we got there! I’m sure many factors are outside your control but I think trying to be transparent and having open communication about it and understanding where the sticking points are will help you work through the hurdles. The company’s experience with other remote employees or trying this in the past may strongly color their point of view, although they will also be thinking about how replaceable you are etc.

    3. There is not a magic combination of words that will make them grant this request, which is what it seems like you’re after here based on your responses to peoples’ comments.

      1. Wow you need to chill. The OP got only nine responses over the weekend, at least two of which were clarifications from her. It’s not a crime to repost.

      1. Hey, please feel free to scroll on by! This thread is clearly not for you, but you’re all over it and it’s annoying.

      2. +1000 – There were several replies with very concrete, helpful information to which some of OP’s replies were less than gracious. That’s why I’m reacting to this re-post, not the re-post itself.

        1. I don’t know what your problem is, but it’s not with me. The only reply you could be referring to on the weekend thread is hardly “less than gracious” – it was a clarification and a response to one of the points about career growth that another poster made. Please consider redirecting your anger elsewhere. This isn’t productive or healthy for you.

    5. You can also look at whether or not your payroll is processed in house or by ADP or another large national processors. Processors who handle payroll for multiple states and large employees may not have any problem completing paperwork for states that don’t have reciprocity agreements and filing correctly. That removes the pressure on the internal HR department in terms of making sure that the employer follows tax rules for both states. It’s not something that a company will want to get wrong and using a payroll provider lessens the risk. https://gusto.com/blog/payroll/payroll-taxes-out-of-state-employees

      Some states will double dip.
      https://help.zenefits.com/Taxes/Learn_More_About_Payroll_Taxes/Learn_About_Employee_State_Taxes/02-Payroll_Taxes_and_Work_Locations_for_Remote_Employees/#:~:text=Anyone%20who%20works%20remotely%20will,physical%20presence%20in%20that%20state.

      1. This is great, thank you! We actually do have our payroll outsourced to a larger company, but I didn’t think of whether that meant anything before.

  12. Does anyone have fake grass on a balcony/small patio in the city? Pretty sure I want to cover our small concrete balcony in fake grass, but anything I should know? Does it grow mold or bugs or anything? Does it require cleaning (I don’t have a hose handy, so this would be annoying). We’re in a place with 4 seasons, so I’m thinking maybe I’d roll it up when it snows?

    1. Are you sure you want it? It’s really ugly. What about a little raised garden instead?

      1. I’m very sure I want it unless it’s difficult to maintain. I think it looks great!

    2. Our friends have really nice looking fake grass for their dog on the backyard. It’s come a long way!

    3. We have fake grass in our front and back yards and it is amazing. No mold. No bugs. You would need to figure out how to affix it to a patio. Ours was essentially nailed into the ground. It requires no cleaning. We have to have leaves blown off ours once a month that but that’s it. The rain takes are of cleaning it.

      1. That’s great to hear! We’re 15 stories up so leaves will not be a thing. I think it’s also small enough (~45 sq ft) where our furniture can just hold it down. Thanks!

      2. Same. We installed fake grass in our smallish backyard and we think it looks great and it has been amazing. Wish we’d done it as soon as we moved in.
        No advice on a patio install though.

    5. Our former next-door neighbours installed fake grass. They didn’t roll it up in winter, but theirs was in a backyard so more permanent. I think they swept it or used a leaf blower to remove leaves and debris, but otherwise it was maintenance-free and looked great all year. In their case it was well-drained (they had a foundation layer below) so there were no issues with mould or bugs. If you’re installing it right on concrete, I’m sure there are systems for ensuring proper drainage.

    1. I have a Garmin Venu and really like it. I think they look more like digital watches than fitness trackers, but they still track all the metrics I want (sleep, steps, activity, water, etc.), and the battery life is fantastic.

    2. I have a Garmin Vivomove and really like it. It looks professional (I got role gold and a white leather band) but has smart watch tracking/features. Lots of colors/options!

  14. I’m a lawyer – I sit all day, and then read most nights so sit / curl up most nights. I’m not very active. Lately I’ve been feeling less mobile, tight somehow. A friend told me about hip flexors and I can’t believe I made it to my 30s without knowing about them! I’d like to ease into some exercises to help strengthen this area, but don’t want to overdo it. Any suggestions? I’m getting overwhelmed Googling and would love to hear from other women who sit a lot (or maybe stopped sitting a lot).

    1. I feel like a broken record because I always recommend Fitness Blender. They have a lot of streching/flexibility workouts on their site. I recently did the three day flexibility challenge. If you’re sitting a lot I think it would be good to target the whole body.

      If you’re into yoga, the Yoga with Adrienne YouTube channel is an option.

    2. You want to check whether you want to strengthen or stretch- likely if you’re sitting all day, you want to stretch them because they are shortened. Try searching for Yoga For Hips & Lower Back Release by Yoga With Adriene or Yoga for Psoas by Yoga With Adriene. Any search for “yoga” and “hips” will lead you to a bunch of videos. For strengthening, you can try running, squats, lunges, leg raises/marching/high knees.

      1. Also, if you’re not very active, consider your heart health. Heart failure is one of the leading killers of women, but you can prevent a lot of issues with some simple brisk walking once a day. Anything that gets your heart moving for about half an hour on weekdays will help.

  15. anyone have a rec for something that is like a citronella candle, but is battery operated? when we go outside we wear bug spray, but DH, my two year old twins and I are still getting eaten alive. we live in an apartment building with a sizable courtyard where we like to take the kids to run around when empty, but can’t start lighting candles down there.

    2. Thermocell lanterns. Check amazon – they come in lots of different styles. You’ll want to have it going for about 15 minutes before your family goes out so that it can clear the area.

      2. +1. They’re pretty expensive but at least I don’t turn in to a human pincushion. I’ve seen them at Target and Lowe’s, too.

    4. Can you take a portable fan down with you? A slight breeze will help keep mosquitos at bay.

  16. Follow up from Friday’s important ice cream convo. For Mid-westerners looking for Tillamook I’ve found it at Target and Mariano’s! Good luck!

    1. Ooh, this is very important news! Their Stumptown cold brew ice cream is *chef’s kiss*

      1. Stumptown . . . . cold brew . . .. ice cream!?!!!! That sounds amazing!!

        I am going to go to great lengths to get some.

        1. It is the best, only rivaled by the Jeni’s coffee with cream and sugar ice cream! I need to get both and do a taste test… you know, for research purposes. :)

    4. Random piece of advice: In the last year or so, most large retailers will tell you *exactly* which products are sold in which stores.

      Go to the website. Click on the product you want. You should see a button with “find” or “find product” or “find retailer” on it. Click the button and enter your ZIP code. It will tell you exactly where to find that product, such as, which Target carries the strawberry and which only carries the vanilla.

  17. For the hummus chicken recipe, if I use a whole breast, how hot does the oven need to be and about how long should it go in for?

    THANK YOU!

  18. I need thank you gift ideas for my mother in law. My fiancee and I have been staying with her for almost 2 weeks while we’ve been evacuated from the fires here in Northern California. She has been incredibly generous to us – letting us (and our 2 cats!) stay with her, cooking for us, cleaning, and just letting us completely barge into her life. We want to get her something to say thank you. She lives alone and is retired from being a medical assistant, has a small dog, doesn’t drink, and loves to garden.

    1. Can you upgrade any of her garden tools or clothes? Would she like her front porch decorated for fall? Mums, pumpkins, fall door mat, wreath, etc? I saw someone do this as a socially distant gift on instagram and thought it was a cute idea.

      1. I’d say an upgraded welcome mat would be particularly appropriate — along with a note about how welcoming she was to you!

    2. She sounds awesome. Maybe Cheryl’s cookies and a flowering shrub that she can plant? Or a gourmet basket with cheeses/crackers/fancy spread? Fancy lotions?

    3. As a gardner, a gift card to the nicest nursery in the area right before fall planting would be so appriciated!

    4. Can you treat her to a restaurant meal or two to save her cooking? Fancy coffee or upgrade a kitchen appliance (if she uses and likes it, and it fits with the space she has)? Do a grocery run and add in fancy flowers?
      I wouldn’t be in favor of the decor idea since decor taste is so personalized, I have disliked a fall wreath given to me as a present and never put it up. Likewise I am picky about potpourri or scented candles (once I discovered Nest it is hard to go back to Target candles or decor!).

  19. There is a company locally that offer Covid antibody testing for $30. I think I may do it just out of sheer curiosity. I am someone who has still worked with the public to some extent during the entire pandemic. I also was in Vegas late last year and flew twice towards the end of the year. (Undoubtedly the virus was around in airports with incoming international flights long before we realized it was here.)

    Has anyone done the antibody testing themselves? What made you want to do it and did the result make you rethink anything you are doing? For the record, even if I have antibodies I will still continue to diligently wear my mask, social distance, etc. So a positive antibody result isn’t going to make me shrug my shoulders and return to before times. They say curiosity killed the cat but I am just very curious if I have antibodies and $30 seems reasonable.

    1. I had two done for free when I donated blood. Negative both times even though I was at a giant conference in Las Vegas in late February. I’ve also had two real tests, also negative.

      1. Yeah everybody I know who was convinced they had COVID early on (including me) tested negative for antibodies.

        1. I know a guy from college who does a ton of international travel. V sick in early 2020. The dude is chock full of antibodies and now donating plasma.

    3. In my area the local blood center includes COVID antibody results when you donate – might be a good way to save $30 and help your community while you’re at it. I gave blood in April and was curious to see my results – negative – but wasn’t planning to change much either way. Especially now that reinfection seems to be a thing that happens.

    4. COVID antibody testing is extremely unreliable and medical professionals have no idea if having COVID antibodies actually protects you from infection going forward. If you want to for $30, go for it, but the tests are basically useless.

      1. +1. My doctor friend who works at CDC says the antibody testing is very iffy. I had Covid and then tested negative for antibodies several days afterward.

        1. It would take at least 14 days for antibodies to show up, so if you tested for antibodies a few days after a viral positive test, it would be too early. We don’t know how long they last after an infection (seems like 3-5 months) but we do know that it takes about 2 weeks after infection for them to be traceable. So you could test again now if you’re curious!

      2. I talked it over with my doctor. I was sick with fever and deep cough in March. I couldn’t get a test because despite a lot of US coast to coast travel in Feb, I didn’t know of a direct link to China.

        But the antibody tests are unreliable. A positive could be false. A negative could be false. So what would it tell me?

    5. It won’t be conclusive if it’s negative because antibodies don’t necessarily last that long, especially not 9+ months.

      BUT if you are positive, you could donate plasmsa and potentially save a life…I’d probably do it for $30.

      1. Right? And just to help give researchers more data to study from. I was so frustrated to be negative after a ton of early 2020 air travel to / from hotspots (I was never sick though, but given that silent transmission was so discussed, thought that that was at least possible).

    6. I wouldn’t do it! What if you need life/disability insurance and this becomes a disqualifying factor? What happens if Trump wins again and pre-existing conditions return? Given what we know at this point about false positives and the potential for reinfection, antibodies shouldn’t change your behavior, so why acquire information that you can’t act on but could be held against you?

      1. This is an extremely good point that I hadn’t considered! I wonder if I donated blood instead if that would be the better option since insurance isn’t involved in that. And, bonus, blood is need anyways.

    7. I did it, flew in extensively in feb and early March domestically and took the subway to work thru mid March. I had a cold in early March. I did the test in May and was negative.

  20. Many thanks for the Kindle Paperwhite recs last week, and to the poster who started it all by saying she banished her phone from the bedroom! I got my Paperwhite, moved the phone to the kitchen overnight, and the very first night instead of doom-scrolling there was book-reading, there was gardening, and I slept like a baby.

    I’m calling it a win. ;)

    1. Curious – for those of you who banish your phone from the bedroom, are you concerned about missing emergency calls overnight?

      My mom started keeping her phone in the bedroom when my grandpa was sick and then kept it up because my siblings and I had started driving. My dad just started doing it because he’s on the call list for my uncle’s transplant (if my aunt and uncle don’t pick up, my dad gets the call).

      I have a job where I’m on call 1 week a month, but hypothetically they could call and ask me to come in whenever so I always sleep with both cell phones next to me.

      The idea sounds lovely, but I’d be too concerned about missing an important call.

      1. In my case my husband is keeping his phone in the bedroom (he is not a doomscroller by any stretch — barely looks at his phone during the day!) and anybody who would call me in an emergency also knows to call him.

        1. Exact same situation here. My husband has to keep his phone in the bedroom because he’s always on call, and so I rely on him.

      2. I guess you could accomplish the same thing by keeping it in the room but out of reach.

      3. Yes, I live in wildfire country and keep my phone by my bed overnight. I know too many people personally who had to evacuate in situations where seconds counted. I’ll move it away when we’re not in wildfire season.

        1. I miss my land line for things like that. I left it behind when I ran away from home some years ago but if I hadn’t moved I’d still have it.

          1. A cautionary tale?

            I was a no landline person until I lived through the Boston Marathon bombing and subsequent hunt for the bombers. That day was an utter nightmare, and it was exacerbated by the fact that our cell networks were seized up for an extended period of time after the bomb went off. I had family along and on the course, a block from the blast sites and I was personally in transit to the finish line when it went off. We couldn’t get through to ANYONE, and for hours on some networks. So, I will always have a landline. I don’t know our landline number and the ringer is on silent 100% of the time, but we have it for those that’ll-never-happen-till-it-happens type scenarios that you never quite forget till you live it.

      4. My kids are too young to drive or have driving friends. If they were out I might move the phone to the bathroom by my bedroom, but it has randomly chirped enough to wake me when I wanted to sleep and I loathe it for that reason. Ditto spouses’s phone, which is so noisy that it should be on airplane mode (like random people text him and his texts aren’t silenced normally — if strangers text you at 3:30, silence your d*mn texts; we joke that a drug dealer had his # before he did given the randomness of texts and timing).

        I effing hate the phone — so full of messages but never the ones you want.

          2. +2 I use DND and have a few select favorites in my contacts that can have calls/texts breakthrough (son, parents, sister, etc)

      5. Husband and I have never kept a phone in the bedroom overnight. If we miss a call, then I guess we miss a call.

        1. +1 After years of being on-call for work and family, I will HAPPILY risk missing a Bad News Call in exchange for putting down the weight of that anxiety and keeping our phones by the front door. Also: I probably won’t because you can still hear a phone ringing from downstairs?

    2. Ooh I was the one who posted the original comment! I was going to ping you today— I realized after posting that it wasn’t a “health or fitness” tip in the way the OP of the post probably meant it, so I was very happy to see you still enjoyed it. (Although, banishing the phone from my bedroom has improved my sleep health enormously, so I guess it wasn’t too off base).
      My paperwhite is one of my best “value for the money” purchases ever. Make sure you connect your kindle to your library so you don’t have to pay for books if you don’t want to! And a fun tip: if a library book is due back before you’re finished with it, turn your WiFi off and it will stay on your kindle until you turn it back on. I don’t think this affects the next person on the waitlist’s ability to get the book on time, because the library still considers it returned. And as a friendly PSA/request to all, please return your e-books early when you can!

      1. Wait… what? I hadn’t even thought of that! I had been borrowing library books on my phone and I hadn’t thought about using my Kindle for that. Off to go investigate…

  21. Does anyone know of any resources for learning more about strategies/techniques that actually work in persuading voters? Thinking of the crowd who don’t really support Biden or Trump, for all the standard reasons. There is so much misinfo out there, and it seems a lot of these folks (that I know) treat all sources as equal, whether from QAnon or the Wall Street Journal.

    1. I’m writing letters to likely Democratic voters who do not always vote with Vote Forward. Their method can slightly tip the scales (1-3% higher turnout), which can make all the difference in swing states!

    2. I like this article about changing minds (which is in regards to anything, not just politics). TL;DR: it involves a lot of work, patience, and keeping your cool.

    4. I come from a very conservative place and I’m going after folks who are single-issue voters on abortion. I’m sharing perspectives about reproductive justice and research on what actually lowers abortion rates (hint – outlawing it doesn’t work). I flipped my mom before the 2016 election and I’m working on the rest of the Catholic folks I know who haven’t already unfriended/disowned me.

  22. For those of you paying attention, our offer was turned down since it was contingent on the sale of our own house and the sellers didn’t like that. :( but we are undeterred!

    1. Bummer! I don’t know what your market is like but keep trying. I put in nearly 20 offers before I got my house in a highly competitive market.

  23. Anytime I’m indoors with a mask ( grocery shopping for example, or even curb side pickup), when I get home I shower…including washing my hair and throwing all my clothes into the washing machine. Though I won’t run out of clothing, there is obviously more wear and tear With washing clothing.(I’m also hanging on to some older clothes that I would otherwise donate or recycle just because it gives me more things to cycle through). I will be buying a few more items to add to the rotation, but I am wondering if I Am going overboard with the washing, or are others doing this too? I teach, and we are doing a full return with only half of the class inside at any given time, and I will likely be doing even more laundry after being in a room With 15 students for over 70 minutes twice a day.

    1. I personally think this is excessive, even if you are teaching. I don’t wash my masks after every wear because I have enough to rotate with time between for whatever is on it to die/be gone. I am going into the office, stores, etc., so I could also potentially have some exposure (although not as much as a teacher with in-school kids). I still only do laundry once a week and have no desire/plans to change that.

    2. Washing your clothes after curbside pickup seems a little extreme, but I understand wanting to change after teaching. You don’t have to wash your clothes, though. It’s unlikely the virus will survive more than a day or two on your clothes, so if you’re only wearing them for a few hours, why don’t you just take them off and hang them somewhere out of the way? This is harder if you have a small apartment, but I have plenty of space so it works fine for me when I go to the doctor or somewhere else higher risk.

    3. This is a lot! And not necessary or helpful. It’s an airborne virus. No one has gotten it from their clothes no reason to shower. If you’re getting it from kids it’s from them breathing the same air as you all day. Not showering or washing clothes.

    4. I am not doing anything remotely like this. I wash my mask if I’m wearing it for an extended period of time (but not after wearing it for the three minutes it takes me to get to my office from my car in the morning and then back to my care in the evening) but certainly not my cloths or my hair. Washing your clothes and showering after a trip to the supermarket or even a curbside pick-up seems to me to be far beyond what is reasonable. Gently, I think you should consider that you are experiencing too much anxiety here.

      1. IDK if anxiety is right but no one really knows what to do and if it does no harm and might be helpful, why not?

        I will say though that the only people I know who do this are in healthcare and are regularly exposed to bloodborne pathogens and sick people (like with a variety of things) — e.g., an OB or nurse assisting with a v delivery or c-section, so gunk with all sorts of germs or viruses may actually be all over them. They shower/wash hair / all clothes into washer and tend to have houses where they can walk in from their car and do this before encountering family. And they have done this for years, so way prior to COVID. They also do it so as to reduce the chance that they are sick with something and give it to their patients or others in a hospital setting (and their families/nanny).

        1. “but no one really knows what to do”

          This is no longer true. We know it’s spread through the air, not contaminated surfaces.

          1. It’s more easily and commonly spread through the air but the rate of spread from surfaces is non zero.

    5. I think the easiest thing to eliminate would be washing your clothes after curbside pickup! That feels very excessive to me but I try to be respectful of the boundaries that others draw when it comes to Covid safety.

      I personally DO NOT shower immediately after coming home from the grocery store/necessary errands, but I do often change clothes when I return home. That said, I typically washed clothes after 1 wear even in pre-Covid times and I tend to be a sweatier human than I would prefer haha.

      Make the choice that is best for you, of course, but I personally don’t think anyone should feel obligated to buy new wardrobe items because of the pandemic. I have bought new clothing items in recent months, but I bought them for my own enjoyment and comfort rather than out of obligation.

      1. Thank you for your insights. I have long hair and though I tie it up for errands, I still feel like it touches my mask, or if I am out walking and use a public restroom, I feel better if I wash my clothing. I do have “house clothes” aka comfy soft gap joggers and have changed into them for over 20 year+ pre pandemic). I suppose I do perspire quite a bit, and that combined with fear is pushing me to throw in clothing after one wear, which I did less often before…used to do two wears for things like skirts and dresses. If I’m just walking outside For exercise, I don’t wash my things when I return home.

        1. Just change your clothes and wash them on a normal schedule.
          Put your hair up in a bun if you’re that afraid of getting your hair contaminated and wash it on a normal schedule – that’s super easy fix to not make your life easier while maintaining your risk averse position.
          And changing after curbside (i.e. don’t get out of your car) is ridiculous.

          1. I agree about curb side pickup— I used the wrong term, and meant take out for food or items where we pick up in store!

        2. Yeah, I’m a little sympathetic about the hair thing- I have shoulder length hair and when I’m just sitting at my computer, I find myself fiddling with it and sticking the ends in my mouth (gross, I know! I don’t do this when other people are around!). I work from home these days, but if I were out and about more, I might get kind of paranoid about my hair because of this and be tempted to shower when I got home (or break my gross habits).

        3. I read that the regular flu virus can only live in skin for 20 minutes. Anyone know if that’s true/might indicate COVID germs die off on skin after a bit?

          1. It can live longer but the quantity that can live more than a few hours is vanishingly small, so not enough to cause infection except maayyybe extraordinary circumstances

    6. Forgot to add that by curb side pickup there is still interaction with people ( sometimes go inside store) and we live in a Canadian city where COVID cases are rising.

    7. You’re going overboard if you’re showering after going to the grocery store. You may or may not be going overboard if you’re showering after extended indoor time with lots of people.

    8. Yes, you are going overboard with the washing. The CDC recommends that sanitize frequently touched surfaces once a day — these are keyboards, light switches, phones, etc. The CDC also recommends that you wash your hands often, and don’t touch your face unless you’ve washed your hands.

      I change my clothes after work and the train commute, but I did that anyways. There is no need to wash yourself or your clothes because you’v gone to a grocery store. Here’s some tough love — if the virus was being transmitted to people by fast shopping trips wearing masks, or by touching your own clothes, or not washing your hair, people would literally be dying in the streets. They are not. You are adding to your own anxiety.

    9. I change clothes, wash hands, and wash mask after any interaction anywhere near others, but I don’t shower. I’m high-risk myself. I would definitely shower if I was in an enclosed indoor space all day, but with the knowledge that it’s probably not doing anything and is more for piece of mind.

    10. Thanks again for the gut check- I appreciate your helpful suggestions. I have been more anxious lately. I did have my jackets and coats for a few days when it was cooler. I suppose hotter temps, and fear prompted the washing of clothes and showering. I do go for long walks, have picnics and sit on benches, use public restrooms, as I’ve been on holiday, so maybe when I return to work the laundry cycle will look a bit different.

        1. Thank you:). I’m a bit less anxious ,but I started throwing things in the wash and showering as what I thought was “ best practice.” I used to do this in before times, just not as rigorously. I suppose former habits+ virus= more anxiety in this case!

    11. Changing clothes after a full day of teaching? Makes sense, even if only for comfort purposes. Just put your hair in a ponytail and wash it before you go to bed, you hair isn’t going to give you Covid.
      Washing your hair and clothes after getting a curbside pick-up when both of you are wearing masks? Nonsense. You had not contact which would permit you to have any infected clothing or hair. Please stop wasting your time.

      The best thing you can do for yourself is to wash your hands up to your elbows often and especially as soon as you get in the house and keep your hands out of your face.

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