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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
How pretty is this frilly cotton blouse? A crisp white blouse is a summer must-have. I particularly love the rose motif on this top from Hope for Flowers by Tracy Reese. For those of you who are looking for slow fashion and/or 100% cotton tops, this is for you. The entire product line is made from sustainable fabrics and is created by one of Michelle Obama’s favorite designers.
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Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
anon
I posted a couple weeks ago about questionable contact with a friend/co-worker who was a bit too friendly, and I have stopped talking to him for the most part (for those who haven’t read the post – there was some flirting going on/liking each other and we are both married so it feels wrong and could lead to trouble). I am shocked at how much I miss him!! Life just feels so boring without him. Has anyone been through anything similar / have any advice on how to get through it?
anon
Good job doing this!
Maybe try to do something you’ve always wanted to do with your husband. A new activity or even something that you both like. Could help to create new set of excitement/things to look forward to.
Anonymous
Yup. Girl. You were having an emotional affair. And now you miss the attention and excitement and attraction. Deal with really instead of this faux naive vibe you’re playing at.
Anon
+1
Anonymous
This. Every time you think of him, imagine him stinking up your bathroom or leaving his dirty underwear on the bedroom floor etc It’s easy to have an emotional affair where you don’t have to think about real life. Create negative associations when you think about him and it will fade.
And invest in your marriage – plan new activities to try together. Build new memories with your husband.
Anon
This is it, exactly (plus the “faux naive vibe”). This guy stinks up the bathroom, would fight with you about gardening and money and whose family to see over Christmas, and leaves dirty dishes laying around.
Anonymous
His mom is a Trump support who buys you a ‘ladies love Trump’ shirt for Christmas and argues loudly with her son in front of you and how it’s offensive that you won’t wear it.
Anon
What?
Flights of fancy aren’t the answer. Remembering that the guy is human and you would have the same problems with any guy is the answer.
anon
+2
Anonymous
I don’t know why some people are catastrophizing this … her husband was aware the whole time, she shut it down when the guy made her uncomfortable by … being too available for phone calls & reaching out to her without solid work reasons.
If you’ve ever pulled back from a platonic friend because you realized it was unhealthy in some way, or they wanted to monopolize your time too much, or whatever … it’s normal to miss them.
When I worked in customer service, I had someone tell me I needed to tell my boyfriend whenever anyone remotely might have flirted with me … basically any time I interacted with a man I was supposed to memorize all the details & recite them at home … which would have been giving it so much more attention than it deserved. Would we ever have time for anything else? People with these kind of theories must have some hang ups or relationship problems that cause them to distort reality.
Just move on without giving it more importance than it deserves. Stand firm that It’s not an option to connect with that person and do anything else. It’ll pass.
Anon
I disagree. I commend OP for owning and naming truthfully what was going on. In the earlier post it was all on the guy and now she seems to be admitting it was mutual and it was flirting and it was inappropriate/not just a friends thing, as she initially represented and as you’re saying here.
I think naming it is important in processing it. It was wrong and it is probably a signal that there are Things in her own marriage that need attention – not necessarily fatal things, but Things.
Anon
No.
I have a lot of man friends. I work mainly with men, most of my friends are men, and many of the people in my hobbies and community service projects are men. My husband is now friends with some of my ex-boyfriends.
I read the original post and thought it was one long series of red flags. The problem is that the OP was full-on flirting with a married co-worker and playing innocent about it all, but knows that it was not actually innocent.
If you want your marriage to work, you must shut these things down sooner rather than later. There’s no other end game.
Anon
She says they were flirting and “liked each other.” Straight men and women can be platonic friends. This wasn’t a platonic friendship.
Anonymous
I didn’t see your original post, but I’d suggest giving it time, only checking your phone if it is ringing (no mindless scrolling – focus on work during work, and family, reading, a new hobby when it’s not). You may find comfort in watching some favorite movies or rereading a favorite book.
Anonymous
THis sounds very very normal to me. You had something that was fun and fresh and enticing. Now you’ve taken a hard look at reality and realized that it was going nowhere good. So not only are you missing the fun, fresh, enticing thing, it is absolutely not available to get back, because it’s been unmasked as something with the potential to wreck multiple lives.
None of that feels good. So you’re likely experiencing loss, some grieving, disappointment, and maybe guilt. Along with the same ol’ same ol’ with your husband and kids and job.
You get through it by congratulating yourself on taking this important step toward emotional maturity, by reinvesting in your husband, and by looking for what’s available in your life to enjoy right now, and by starting to dwell on what you can be grateful for.
anon8
+1000
Anon
+1
Give it time, and don’t slide back
Anon
I agree with all of this.
You have done the right thing, and it is natural to miss the fun and excitement of something even if you know it was wrong. Focus on creating that feeling with your husband. When we rid ourselves of things we know are toxic, it doesn’t mean that we don’t miss them and that it does not take willpower to replace those feelings with something else. You recognized what you needed to do before things went too far. Keep on following through until one day, you no longer miss your coworker or think of him as an object of desire.
Anon Probate Atty
Totally agree.
PNW
If this was someone you texted with, change your incoming text notification. That way you don’t get that little heart flip that you’re now programmed to have when you hear a text come in and it might be him.
Letting go of work error guilt
Any tips for letting go of the guilt after making an error during a task?
Small errors that I catch myself are nbd. I can fix them and move on, because they only impact me and my time. In the few years I’ve been in my role, I’ve made a couple bigger mistakes that also impact other people’s work. I have a really hard time of letting go of the anxiety and guilt I feel about the errors, especially given that it caused other people to waste their time. How can I re-frame my thoughts and let go of the worry?
For some context, I work in a data role and the mistakes are very often hidden in thousands and thousands of rows of data and are easy to miss but still impactful. I’m working on new methods to be more careful and check my work, but with the volume and speed at which things have to be turned around mistakes are bound to happen.
FormerlyPhilly
I work in a data role too. In our office (and my prior institutions), we’d always say this is why there is a margin of error. As long as you are within that margin of error, it’s par for the course. Esp. if you’re dealing with hundreds of thousands of records and statistical software packages.
Sorry that I don’t have solutions (aside from establishing methods to check your work along the way). But I understand where you’re coming from.
OP
Thanks. I know it happens and there’s only so much that can be done with that volume of data. It’s nice to know it happens to other people instead of my internal narrative that I’m the only dummy in the world (rolls eyes at myself)…
Both times I’ve had these bigger errors, it was the first time I was doing a process so I need to give myself more grace. Anytime I’m learning something, I’m likely not going to do it perfectly the first time.
I just hate causing other people to do rework, when my incorrect product feeds theirs.
pugsnbourbon
A couple things:
Think about when someone else makes an error that impacts your work. What goes through your mind and what do you feel? You probably take it in stride – you might be a little annoyed with that person, but a simple mistake doesn’t torpedo your relationship entirely.
I tend to ruminate on my mistakes, which makes them larger and worse than they would be otherwise. I practice talking to myself – out loud if I’m really struggling – “I made a mistake. I’ve learned ____. To keep this from happening again, I’m going to _____.” And then I’ll do some kind of separating ritual to distract myself – get a cup of coffee, a snack, etc.
Anonymous
+1000
How would you talk to a colleague who made a mistake doing something for the first time? Talk to yourself like that.
When you take on a new task in the future, before you finish it, think about how you could self check your work. What is the equivalent of proofreading or spell checking for what you do?
MJ
Try to tell yourself this: I will take only the learning that is necessary from this situation.
That is to say, you should learn from the mistake so you don’t make it again, but you should not dewll on the mistake or get overly involved emotionally _in the mistake itself and the aftermath_.
If you didn’t care at all, you’d be a bad worker. You’re human. But don’t let these things take you down or paralyze you from doing your job going forward. Remember–take only the learning that is necessary from the situation.
Senior Attorney
A long time ago a superior of mine told me something that blew my mind: “Everybody makes mistakes.”
And I was all… WHAT?!?!?!
And he was all, “True story. Everybody makes mistakes. Now repeat it until you believe it.”
Blew my mind but it kind of changed my life.
Anonymous
Guilt occurs when we’ve violated a standard that we hold. Sometimes these standards and right and good. At other times, these standards are not useful. It sounds like you may have taken on a standard that says, “I should never make a mistake or cause trouble for anyone else.” If this is, indeed, something embedded in your thinking, it’s not a useful standard. Recognizing it’s there is useful, but therapy or counseling is often needed to let go of it.
pugsnbourbon
Ooh. This is really good. I don’t know that I’ve ever heard it articulated this way.
Amberwitch
Mistakes are opportunities for learning, and a transaction cost. Not something that requires blame apportioned.
I work with a mental model of error inducing systems and error reducing systems. And one of the crucial elements of creating an error reducing environments is to de-stigmatise errors, to make sure they are captured and the learning extracted.
fallen
What workout apps/subscriptions have given you the best results? I have been using the peloton app (without bike, just the HIIT workouts) but I am curious about trying others. I have heard the Sweat app is great but curious about other options. I am pretty lean so mostly looking to tone but also wouldn’t mind losing 3-5 pounds I gained during COVID.
Ribena
It’s that old canard – something you enjoy. I have been loving the apps from Down Dog – yoga and barre especially. Normally I end up paralysed by choice when scrolling through workout videos but for these I just plug in my preferences and it creates a workout for me.
Anon
+1 to Down Dog, which I downloaded and bought a membership to based on recommendations here. I am really loving the yoga sequences the app gives me and also love the customization I can do. It’s really easy to switch things up if, say, one day I want to do a more relaxed Yin practice and then the next day I want to do a fast flow. Highly recommend and I’m now thinking about getting the barre app as well.
Ribena
It’s worth noting that all the apps are included in the one subscription – HIIT isn’t normally my thing but I did a HIIT session this morning.
anon
I love Aaptiv! So many different types of workouts and the trainers are really motivating. It’s audio not video so that may take some getting used to but I have found that I prefer not having to glance at my phone/computer while working out.
anon
I also am a big fan of Aaptiv! I want nothing to do with video while I’m working out. The audio-only format really works for me. I’ve been a subscriber for 2 years now; it is one of the few apps I gladly pay for.
Anon
I like Beachbody on Demand (just the workouts, no shakes). I find good results with both 21 day fix workouts and Barre Blend.
Anon
I love BBOD. I’ve tried so many of their workouts and really enjoy them.
Edge
I’m really enjoying the Peloton app. There are some great strength training workouts – including body weight if you don’t have equipment. I’ve also been loving the treadmill runs (on my Nordic Track) but you can also take those outdoors. The yoga is decent too – not my favorite (I like Alo Yoga on YouTube) but I do the classes since it is all bundled together
For me, the soundtracks are really helpful in keeping me engaged.
Clementine
The treadmill runs are getting me some AMAAAZING workouts while I wait for my bike to be delivered. FWIW, I’m literally using my ‘bought for $100 from an old coworker’ hand me down treadmill and even though I’ve been running for YEARS, I ran my fastest 5k in 3 years after a month of consistent running workouts.
Also, HIGHLY recommend the ‘Lizzo Fun Run’ if you’ve ever just had a DAY.
busybee
I did Sweat for a few months and while the workouts are very effective, they were really high impact and my knees didn’t appreciate it. I like Pure Barre On Demand, though I switched to that after a few years of actual Pure Barre classes. If you go the barre route, I’d recommend doing some in-person classes first so you can learn proper form.
E
My gym offered Les Mills classes, so I switched to their online classes when our gym shut down. It’s a good mix of classes and only like $15/month.
Anon
I’m a big fan of set programs – e.g. on Peloton, the 4 week strength program or the 2 week yoga program. I find that it keeps me more accountable to myself for staying on track/timeline.
Rocks
I love the Peloton app for treadmill workouts but for a strength workout the Sweat app (PWR at Home program) is much better.
Airplane.
Nike Training Club app. Premium is free until further notice. I love the achievements to “gamify” working out and keep streaks going. Love the yoga from Ashley Silver Fagan and the lifting workouts with just dumbells. There’s a lot of 15-25 minute “finishers” or add ons for abs or to target something (bi’s and tri’s) so even when I feel like I could skip it I have the habits (and streaks) built in so I make sure I get a workout in.
Men's Laptop Bag
To the poster yesterday looking for a computer bag for her husband, I bought this TUMI bag for my husband last year. I saw a man in the elevator at work with it and it looked so sleek and modern. I actually hunted him down in the building later to find out who made it. My husband really likes it. It’s TUMI so it’s not cheap. I love that it’s not all leather. I got it on eBags and was able to get it cheaper there than the TUMI site. Good luck!
https://www.ebags.com/product/tumi/alpha-exp-organizer-laptop-brief/373204?productid=10752234&cat=attaches-&-briefcases&country=US¤cy=USD&ebcpkey=keywords&sourceid=ADWPRODTUMI&adtype=pla&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2oiqtemI6gIVAo-GCh0gDAcjEAQYCiABEgLD__D_BwE
Ses
I own this bag. It’s hands-down my favorite for travel, and has lasted several years without getting floppy or shabby. Absolutely repels dirt and grime, very cleanable. Fits well under airplane seat.
Note that it is not leather (but has leather handles) and it is on the heavy side. Check the weight in comparison to other bags you’re considering.
Anon
My husband has this exact bag. He loves it! I wish I could say it was a gift but he’s very picky and chose this for himself. It always looks great and it has held up so well.
OP
Thank you! I am the poster from yesterday and this is perfect!
Random dumb ideas I've had
I can remember visiting Fancy College when I was in high school. I am from a solidly blue-collar town where getting a 2-year community college and then finishing up as a commuter student at State U satellite campus is what “going to college” typically means. That was max 50% of any graduating class.
At any rate, I remember thinking “I can make a lot of $ by selling Avon to people in the dorms,” which is nutty b/c I am not much of a makeup wearer (and that was not the vibe there, rather preppy vs made-up). But I am a skin-care product user, so perhaps only 99% off base.
Anonymous
Ummm cool story?
Anon
If you are following up on the thread of people’s embarrassing early work experiences, I have one. I worked at a law firm during law school that let me work on my homework when I didn’t have assignments from the attorneys. My desk was in an open area and attorneys would sometimes walk by and ask if I had enough work and if I was keeping busy. I took that literally and answered yes because I was swamped with law school homework and was plenty busy. It was only post graduation working in a firm I realized they were asking if I had enough law firm work and that they would give me more if I didn’t. Oops.
Anonymous
Where is that thread? I can’t seem to find it.
Anonymous
Monday’s coffee break Johnny Was Masks, thread about the most cringeworthy thing you did as a new professional
Anonymous
Thanks!
Anonymous
Maybe you were meant to be an influencer, but were too early for that? And I think I get what you mean — Avon is too middle-brow for Fancy College. Maybe you could have made bespoke homemade tonics and serums or somesuch.
Anonymous
I went all-in on headbands before realizing that my head is absurdly wide and it was like putting on a vice grip. And it seems like headbands are coming back, along with mom jeans and crop tops and slip dresses.
Anon
Headbands have been hiding stay-at-home hair.
anon
I don’t know why you put “going to college” in quotes. Community college for 2 years and finishing at a state school can get you a bachelor’s degree just like Fancy College will. And for a lot less money.
Anonymous
No doubt it is, but I know a lot of places (BigLaw) prefer the bright shiny penny name-brand student vs the student with this type of resume. Sad. But it’s like a culture thing or something. Not sure if other $$$ employers are more egalitarian but my guess is not.
Anonymous
+1. I did two years of community college and finished at a state school (many many years ago). It enabled me to live at home and have no college debt when I started law school. I also lived at home during law school to save money because there was a decent law school in driving distance. I am not sure why this is looked down on. I went for an education and I got one — I was lucky to have the opportunity to live at home for school and attend affordable local and state schools, which means I was incredibly fortunate to be able to complete my education with minimal student loans.
CountC
I wish I had done this too because my parents would have given me the extra cash that they had saved to pay for UG and I could have used it to reduce my debt for law school! (I know, extreme privilege here)
Senior Attorney
My son did this. Half-price college education FTW!
Anony
I did similar – I got into Babson, Clarkson, Roger Williams and large State U. While I was offered some financial aid at all 4, the 3 non-state were going to be really expensive. My parents said that if I went to State U, they and my grandparents would pay 100% of the costs. So while I wasn’t happy about it at the time, that’s what I did. I graduated with zero in student debt. I got my MBA paid for by a retail company that I worked for – they paid 80% if I got a B or better; I paid the remainder. And I Just finished up a M.Eng that my current paid for 100% since I got a B+ or better in every course. Three degrees later and $0 student debt. So happy my younger self made the decision to go to State U although sometimes I wonder if I’d have had a better job earlier in life…
Anonymous
I grew up really poor. In the early 90s, I didn’t realize that wearing hose to my office job meant I should avoid white and my goth thigh highs from college with elastic grip at the top. I thought hose were hose and therefore it was all dressy. I looked like either an 8 year old or a punk rocker if I sat the wrong way on the regular.
Anon
Ha, there was a time when white hose were in style and nude hose were very old lady (mid 80s or so) and I continued to wear white hose well into the 90s and maybe beyond. I then transitioned to nude hose but by then most people had stopped wearing hose.
Senior Attorney
WHITE HOSE!! OMG in the 80s and early 90s we all looked like nurses!
Senior Attorney
And we were rocking those (off-)white panty hose with our skirt suits, button-front shirts, and floppy silk bow ties!
Nylon girl
Yes! I like to call it the Princess Diana look since she rocked the beige & white hose look.
Ms B
My Jos. A. Bank coordinating foulard neck rosette and cummerband set feels seen.
Anon
OMG I loved loved loved my off white and white and black lace tights from the late 80s and yes I did wear them to my first corporate job. *facepalm*
Little Red
I remember wearing white hose with summer dresses with white pumps.
anon
I went to a very very fancy college in a very very casual PNW city, and the male janitor in the dorm sold is Avon products. Don’t know that he made many sales, though.
Brown Q
Is anyone on this board a recent Brown grad? We were considering visiting for kiddo (back when that was a thing) and may have her apply without having gone for a visit. We think she is right that it is nice and small and near the water and not in a HUGE city, all things she likes. Our home state’s main options are large ACC or SEC schools, and we all feel that large isn’t a natural fit for her, although each has an honors college program that feels smaller and gets a bit of TLC). They were good for Siblings but she’s a different kid (artistic introvert on the ASD spectrum who likes science, but wanting a serious college experience vs an art school like SCAD).
Anon
Sounds like your home state is Florida? You’re right in that for the two flagship state U’s along with USF and UCF, the “you’re just a number” thing is so real. One other school you might consider is UWF. While some folks do look at it as a backup option if they don’t get in to the flagships, once there, I’ve never heard of anything but great experiences, educationally and socially. It seems that they really do use their smaller size to good advantage.
Anonymous
South Carolina (USC = SEC; Clemson = ACC)?
If so, I have heard very good things re College of Charleston, which is small and seems to be also a state school (unless it is too close to home; I live in CLT and while Davidson is great, I’d want my kids to go elsewhere after growing up here; I’m so glad it is here as a community resource, along with UNCC and Queens).
Anon
Ah, I was thinking UF (SEC) – FSU (ACC)
Charleston would be an awesome place to go!
Casper
I went to CofC and loved every minute of it. Small without being tiny. Good mix of liberal arts and hard sciences. Close to the beach
Anonymous
How was it? Friend is seriously considering it for her oldest. I have heard that it skews very female (not a problem, more of an observation), like >60% female. And for jobs, are they easy / hard to find? Maybe you have to to Atlanta or Charlotte? Friend is worried that her kid will love something like art or architectural history and never want to leave Charleston and will have no real employability in an expensive city. But I see how people can love it there. My one friend there would up needing to leave b/c she needed to wait tables to supplement her real job’s meager salary and went to ATL where she can finally afford a place with no roommates. But she loved the city otherwise.
Anonymous
My husband and I are both from the Carolinas, but we aren’t in the college circuit anymore. Does CofC still have the same reputation it had 20 years ago? Then it had a reputation for being a school for very pretty, very rich, but not so bright girls. It was definitely an Mrs. Degree school, with the Mr. coming from the nearby Citadel. Husband and I didn’t meet until our 40s and grew up hours apart and went to separate colleges, but when we’ve talked about Carolina schools, we both had the same take on CofC.
Casper
I graduated in 2010 so the job market wasn’t really great anywhere. I did live in Charleston an extra year after graduating working odd retail and other jobs because all of my friends were still living there. I ended up moving back home to the DC area in order to get a job. Charleston itself is great for jobs if you go into the medical or hospitality fields. There are also several defense contractors there now. It was about 70% female when I was there and I did date a boy from the Citadel (so that stereotype definitely fits) but I didn’t marry him. I liked that it was heavily female dominated because in classes the women’s voices never got drowned out by the men, but unlike a women’s college, we still got the male perspective and got experience working with men. The image of the pretty, slightly stupid, MRS. seeker was definitely still around when I was there but it was changing. Probably because the school was heavily recruiting out of state students and offering large scholarships to smart students (how I ended up there). One of my freshman roommates was also on scholarship from out of state and she is now an ER doctor. I feel like I got the small liberal arts school experience without the giant price tag
CountC
GO TIGERS!!! (couldn’t help myself)
Anonanonanon
Heard similar about University of North Florida too.
Anonymous
+1. Lots of small classes
Anonymous
Not direct personal experience but my cousin attended Brown, loved it and is now doing grad school at Columbia. She would not have done well with a big city/large university experience for undergrad.
Anon
unless you are having her apply early, can she apply during regular decision and hopefully by then you can visit?
Anonymous
Is that realistic? I thought that national highly-competitive schools like Brown filled their classes from kids who applied early. Like regular decision exists, but largely in theory in some places (especially if you are sort of a vanilla Cindy Lou Who from flyover USA who is a fairly fungible applicant). It probably is a safe bet at large State U type schools (but some programs / scholarships may be FIFO, to use an accounting concept).
emeralds
I don’t think that’s a thing. (Source: I used to be a college access counselor, I know lots of people who work in admissions, I work at a national highly-competitive albeit non-Ivy school.)
Anonymous
Early nominee for elitist post of the day. Wow…
Anonymous
I’m not so sure. I thought applying was just applying and a friend with slightly older kids said not to do it — many schools fill something like 30% of their classes with early applicants and it might benefit a kid on the cusp of getting in not to be in the larger second wave. But who knows? It is all so opaque. I’d rather my kid apply early to a serious school mainly b/c it is more likely to be done well over the summer when they have headspace to think vs a rushed job later when school restarts (also, we don’t have COVID at the moment, lord knows that might change and upset any fall plans to do applications). Ugh.
Anon
By the numbers, she’s right (except for the Flyover USA part). A lot of elite colleges take about 40% of their class early decision or early action. The “fungible” kids (not athletes, development admits, etc.) are all taken then, and the rest of the slots are for very specific needs: athletes, truly exceptional people (like, Intel finalists), someone from South Dakota, other diversity needs (both racial and socioeconomic), the orchestra needs two more French horns, someone’s grandfather will build you a new chemistry lab.
The problem is, if you don’t fit into any of those boxes, the number of slots open for you is tiny, like, ten thousand people vying for a hundred slots tiny.
Anonymous
My sister lives in South Dakota. Maybe we should move closer to her?
Anon
The early decision acceptance rates are higher, but that’s largely because the early applicant pool is stronger since the most enthusiastic and committed kids are more likely to apply early. I went to an Ivy and more than 50% of our class was accepted through regular decision. I and many other “fungible” kids (standard good grades and test scores, but not Olympic athletes or future Nobel laureates) were accepted through regular decision.
Anonymous
Not a Brown grad, but has she considered Davidson? It has all those things, though the water is a lake not the ocean. The town itself is tiny, but super close to Charlotte, and coming from the South, winter wouldn’t be a shock like it would at Brown (I am also not a Davidson grad; I went to another school in NC that was larger, but very nearly went to Davidson and my best friend went there and loved it).
Anonymous
I am a Davidson grad and I fully support this message. However, I will say this – a girl on my freshman hall, who I have always really liked and enjoyed as a hallmate, transferred after our freshman year to Brown. It was ultimately a much better fit for her – while I think that us Davidson grads trend towards nerdy smart and a bit quirky, Brown grads trend closer to the more extreme ends of the “nerdy smart” and very quirky ends of that spectrum. (Of course, this is only my personal opinion and huge oversimplification)
Anonymous
Yes I have a co-worker who graduated from Brown and is definitely at the very far end of the “nerdy smart” and very quirky end of the spectrum. (and I love her for it!)
Anon
Kind of a tangent, but have you looked at colleges with ASD support programs? I have a nephew who is starting to look at them and was curious if you had any thoughts or opinions on them.
Anonymous
I haven’t, TBH, because we’ve never gotten good supports from any school she has attended. We’ve had to build that out from scratch with external providers (who, IMO, are much more invested and responsive) and with her help / input / cooperation. I view it as something to navigate at any school post-admission (possibly post-attendance). I feel that there is such a huge stigma and she doesn’t want to flag it herself. I feel that smaller = more supportive even if you have to go elsewhere for more resources. BUT it is a process. Even our local autism groups have been unhelpful — nothing for girls really, plenty of boy-only social skills groups, nothing for kids who are merely ASD-1 and really need help with fine-tuning social cues and reading people (my early worries was that she could easily be manipulated because she is trusting and a bit naive in that way; she takes everything at face value and thinks other people are good unless obviously bad).
Anon
It sounds like she may have had this already, but in case she hasn’t, speech pragmatics could be helpful. And sSometimes in university towns, speech therapists have experience working with international scholars on English and speech conventions within Anglophone academia, which can mean they have more experience helping adults navigate professional contexts (which can be really helpful when graduating from high school to college).
Anon4this
A couple of thoughts on this from someone who works at a smaller university. Self-identifying and working with Accessible Education can be really important for your daughter’s success on campus (school, work, etc). I worked with OAE after one of my student assistants, who is almost certainly on the spectrum, got into issues at work. He was not registered with them, probably for the reasons you list (pigeon-holing, stigma), but not being registered meant that he was more at risk for losing his job or not having needed accommodations or even recognition by his instructors or campus supervisor.
The other thing I’ll mention is that going to a smaller school, with a more caring population, could be fairly important to your daughter’s success. One of our students, who was on the ASD spectrum, had a lot more acceptance at a smaller school and a fairly normal college experience, but got into a serious problem (fellow student accused him of stalking and got him either kicked out of the library or off of campus) at the state flagship institution when he went there for grad school.
emeralds
+1 to the spirit of this comment. For a student like this I would absolutely be looking at the small, elite liberal arts colleges: Williams, Bowdoin, Amherst, etc.
Either way, yes, she should go ahead and apply to Brown if she thinks it’s a good fit, even if she hasn’t visited it yet.
Sloan Sabbith
Would also recommend a small school. I went to a small school for undergrad and class sizes were always manageable- I never once felt like just another number. Many of my classes had less than 25 students all the way through. Some of my professors remain people I know and connect with to this day.
Anonymous
I did undergrad at flagship state U, postbac at small highly selective liberal arts college, and law/grad school at a small state school. Even for a neurotypical kid, I would recommend a small school over a big university, unless the student wants to study something like engineering that is not typically available at a smaller school. At State U, no one cares if you fall through the cracks. At a small school, you are a human being who is valued.
ask for help
It is absolutely to her benefit to self identify and seek services and supports. I have been in the position to hire college students for internships as well as early career folks for entry to mid level jobs, and I have run into major issues when people did not disclose. I can only provide accommodations when I know they are needed! Several times people were close to being fired or having their reputation ruined for simple misunderstandings. For example, the intern who ignored the CEO because she was Deaf and couldn’t hear him talking to her when he was standing in back of her. Or, the staffer with autism who was almost naively pulled into the criminal activity of another worker, because he misread the social cues and did not understand what was actually happening. Thankfully in both of those cases I figured out what was happening and was able to intervene, but yikes I understand why people are afraid to disclose, but I would urge you to do so, at least in the college environment, because I think it can only help.
anon
A poster above recommended looking at Davidson. I’m a Davidson alum, and with this follow-up post, I wholeheartedly agree. It’s a small school. Classes are small. Nobody is just a number. Professors teach their own classes, and they’re caring and supportive of students, both academically and personally. I don’t have direct knowledge of their support for ASD, but they accommodated my husband’s multiple learning disorders and were really supportive when I had some mental health issues.
anon
Oh, and Davidson is not near the coast, but it has some land on Lake Norman, which is just a couple of miles up the road. Students go out there to lounge, play, read, etc. You can rent paddleboards, kayaks, etc. The club crew and sailing teams operate from the lake campus.
Anonymous
Hello to a fellow Wildcat!!! I’m anon at 10:26 further up this thread!) And it sounds like you married a fellow Davidsonian (I did as well!!)
Anon
The one issue with small liberal arts colleges is that some (a lot?) may not survive the pandemic.
Anon
Public universities will actually be harder hit by the current situation because they rely on state funding (which is being cut dramatically) and tuition from international students (who may not be able to come to campus this year) makes up a much larger percentage of their total tuition dollars. At my state university, the in-state tuition actually doesn’t cover the costs of educating that student, so the high tuition for out of state students (a huge percentage of which are international) subsidizes the in-state students. It depends what level of liberal arts college you’re talking about, but the more elite ones like Swarthmore and Davidson have wealthy donors that will see them through. I would not worry about them surviving the pandemic any more than I would worry about Brown or Harvard surviving it.
anon@10:47
Hi there :-) And yes, I did marry a fellow Davidsonian.
Anon
It’s an interesting question. My general impression is that more selective schools with lighter teaching loads and more resources accommodate every student by default and have less need for special support. I always think of Brown in particular because of Jonathan Mooney’s experience transferring to Brown as a student with dyslexia and ADHD. So I would consider the possibility that a given university may have a stronger ASD support program because ASD students there need more support because it’s a worse environment for them generally (if comparing a school like Brown to a big public university, for example). But I can imagine that between two schools with more of a “just a number” student experience, the school that offers support may be the better choice.
Anon
Not a recent Brown grad, but an alumna of a peer college in New England who does alumni interviews.
I encourage her to apply without visiting (it’s all of $75). Do the virtual tours, reach out if they are going to be at college fairs, talk to alumni of any age, etc. If she gets in, you’ll have a month to make your decision in April of next year. COVID19 may not even be a thing by then. It is completely appropriate to tell an interviewer that she is not able to visit yet because of the travel restrictions.
My alma mater is affiliated with the Museum of Fine Arts and does a combined degree (BS/BA plus BFA). Not sure about the support for kids on ASD spectrum, however.
Sibling of Grad
Sister graduated in mid2000s. We live nearby and are on campus a fair amount. You’re right it checks all the boxes you mention. She’s near the water but Providence doesn’t have a robust and active ocean front the way that Boston, Baltimore or other cities do. If proximity and the chance to see the ocean is all she wants, then PVD will do the trick, but she’d have to go out of her way to leave campus to be ON the ocean with regularity (which is completely doable). PVD itself is pretty inland, with access to the river, but a good distance from the actual open ocean. But, coastal RI is stunning. Newport and the coastal areas are amazing.
As for the rest of campus, I think it’s sort of a perfect blend of cozy campus in a city versus a Boston University, for example, which I consider a true urban campus. You have a defined campus feel – multiple quads, pretty good definition between Brown and non-Brown buildings, etc – but also have access to vibrant Thayer Street and the surrounding neighborhood which are generally safe. At 16 when we went to visit sister, I thought the campus was the greatest thing ever.
My sister went to an ISL prep school in New England. She was a nerdy science, less trendy/social type and Brown was perfect for her. She struggled a bit in high school socially but found life-long friends at Brown that are very similar to her in a lot of ways. I went to a 4k undergrad New England liberal arts school and thought Brown was HUGE, but I suppose it’s all relative and quite small compared to the ACC or SEC schools you speak of.
Lydia
She sounds like a great fit for a SLAC. There are a ton in the Northeast; I’d look at Bowdoin, Bard, Swarthmore, Haverford, Sarah Lawrence, Wesleyan, Ursinus…. Also Oberlin (though it’s Ohio), maybe Grinnnell, the Claremont Colleges, Lawrence, Reed.
Eager Beaver
One more school she may want to add to her list: Oxford College of Emory University (https://oxford.emory.edu/). I would definitely go ahead and register with Accessibility Services wherever she goes. She may ultimately decide to decline accommodations, but having being registered is important.
Anon
Does she get any say in this decision?
Anonymous
+1 The only thing I kept thinking when I read this was does the daughter have an opinion and does it count?
AnonMPH
Hi! Graduated from Brown in 2009 (so not exactly recent anymore), but loved my experience there and think it is certainly worth applying without visiting if she’s excited about it. In non-COVID times, Brown does an admitted students weekend in April call “A Day on College Hill” which is a blast and way more fun than the standard prospective applicant tour in the fall. If that’s happening next year, she could get a great sense of the place then.
In terms of whether it will be great for your daughter, I’d say that in some ways it sounds very aligned and in others maybe not so much? Providence is a great small/medium sized city, with an outsize food scene and a disproportionate to its size amount of cool bars/art/cultural events driven by a revitalizing downtown and the presence of Brown/RISD (food scene driven by the culinary school at Johnson and Wales). That said, as another poster mentioned on this thread, most undergrads don’t spend much time in the city proper, at least for the first few years. Brown is literally up on a hill on one side of Providence, most students don’t have cars and transit isn’t great, so there are definitely many students who spend all their time on campus and in the immediate off-campus area. Which is great, the campus is lovely and Thayer/Wickenden streets have everything you need. But if city life is important to her, that’s worth noting. Agree as well with the other poster that while nothing in Rhode Island is far from the ocean (pretty sure nothing in RI is more than 30 minutes from anything else), the only water that is immediately accessible to Brown by foot is the river.
In terms of other things to think about though, Brown isn’t actually a truly small school. When I was there it was a bit over 1000 per grade, so 5000+ total undergrad, and I think its a bit higher now. That’s solidly medium sized. And the size of the school, mixed with the flexibility of the curriculum gives you a ton of freedom. There are no required classes beyond completing the requirements of your concentration (aka major) and there are a million concentrations to choose from. You can even create your own. So I’d say that if she needs a lot of built-in structure and support, she may want to look more at truly small schools. Kids who thrive at Brown are able to be pretty self motivated and parse through all the options to build their own experience themselves. There’s support and advising available but it’s pretty light touch, and I think it would be easy to fall through the cracks if you just weren’t taking it on.
All that to say, yes, apply! But even when I went there it was already very selective and it felt like a fluke to be accepted as an UMC white kid. It has only gotten worse in the intervening 15+ years. So don’t let her heart get tooo set on it, and find some comparable culture liberal arts schools (Weslyan, Williams, Sarah Lawrence?) to add to the list as well. And re: early decision, FWIW I did not apply early decision and still got in regular. But that’s not helpful really as anecdata.
Anonymous
OP here — thanks so much for all this! It sounds like a good school and fun — like where a parent might like to visit :) We know literally no one living b/w NYC and Boston and no alumni (not surprising for a smaller school where we live in the SEUS). We were hoping to do a NEUS swing, but I know kiddo is pretty clear re sticking near the water and does not want too much winter or too big of a city and we may need it to be somewhere where she can take the train or fly into without us having to take loads of time off work to fetch her or have her keep a car. It sounds promising! We had hoped to send her to some of the colleges with on-campus “camps” this summer but that didn’t happen either.
Anony
I live in Brunswick (born and raised!) and Bowdoin could be an good option for her, although I do love Providence and my friend from high school who went to Brown loved it (and is now a doctor). Brunswick/Bowdoin is very close to the ocean and we have the Amtrak Downeaster that, in normal times, does multiple trips from Brunswick to Portland to Boston – so she’d be able to fly out of PWM or BOS easily. Brunswick is small (I think we are 20,000 and Bowdoin is like 2000); definitely not the big city but everything is available and Portland is a quick 30-minute car/bus/train ride away.
Anon
I graduated from Brown in 2005. I actually have life-long guilt that I went to Brown instead of UVA, which was in-state for me. I mean, I had a good time at Brown and made good friends – it took me a while to find my “tribe” and I still went through the typical college angst phase. I’m pretty sure I would have made good friends at UVA too. A lot of people from my HS in VA went to UVA and as an 18 year old kid, Brown just seemed more “special.” I don’t think any of my friends who went to UVA are less intelligent and interesting than the folks I met at Brown. Now, many years later, my UVA friends are just as successful, if not more so than my Brown friends. The whole Ivy League “you are so special” vibe made the graduation and the real world a harsh adjustment. I also agree with above poster that Brown did not feel like a small and intimate school. Some who is intelligent and independent will do well at Brown – I felt most people were kinda doing their own thing and it’s up to you to find your path. I’m a parent now, but I pretty sure I would force my kids to go to UVA in a similar situation. Of course I can’t even force my two year old to eat anything, so whatever, I’ll be realistic about that. I guess, given my own experience, I’m disillusioned with all the marketing and hype and empty prestige around the Ivy Leagues and also the private liberal arts. I would tend to push my kids to a solid state school option, especially if they get into the honors program.
Anon
I lived in Virginia for a few years and was surprised at how Virginians don’t have nearly as much regard for UVA as out of state people do. It’s an outstanding school and eclipses most private schools, let alone state schools, but if you’re from Virginia, you might not appreciate it as much.
Just… keep that in mind if you are not living in Virginia, California, Michigan, or North Carolina.
Anon
I think you have a point, but I also think the private “everyone is special” vibe can be really helpful for ASD students, whose strengths and deficits can be all over the map. Going to one of those elite schools can be like going going to a school where everyone gets an IEP and is supported in doing their best even if that means finding an unusual niche path to go down. But the same student may feel marginalized at a state school where accommodations are generally official, bureaucratic, and often somewhat stigmatized.
Anon
Hi fellow ‘05 grad! I could have written your post nearly verbatim :)
Sibling of Grad
FLAG: If ‘not too much winter’ is on her list, I’m not sure anywhere north of NYC is going to fit the bill. I’m born and raised metro Boston and PVD, with 2-3 year stints in each of Baltimore, Philly and Richmond (back in Boston now). The ‘not too much winter’ scenario is in the mid-Atlantic and not a New England state. Providence gets by with less than Boston proper in terms of snow totals generally, but dang, its cold compared to anywhere south and that cold is far more sustaining than I ever experienced in the mid atlantic or Richmond. Said differently, if she’s not considering Boston due to weather, you wouldn’t be happy in Providence.
Are there any options in the Philly, DC or Baltimore areas? Philly and DC don’t have an ocean but prominent waterways, which is not dissimilar to Providence.
Anonymous
Replying late! I’m a 2014 grad. You’ve gotten really good advice here. Similar to the 2009 grad below, I would say that self motivated students do particularly well. I was a first gen student and agree that advising was light relative to the huge number of very flexible opportunities and few requirements. However, if your daughter is good at speaking up for herself and connecting with professors, deans, and other advisors, Brown has many resources to help students succeed and is highly motivated around equity and inclusion issues, including disability support.
Anonymous
I’m moving to the other side of my city in a couple of weeks and am trying to set up my new routine – which is difficult when things aren’t the way they will ultimately be. In my new place, I’ll have a public transit commute to the office whereas now it’s only a 7 minute walk away. Obviously gyms and studios are closed right now, but I’m trying to decide if (when they open again) I should quit my current gym, which is in the same building as my office, and join a yoga studio and spin studio near my place. When I was working in my office, having the gym in the same building was super convenient because I could go at lunch and fit the workout into my day that way. However, it was also close enough to my home to go to on weekends, and I definitely won’t commute in from my new place on weekends just to gym. I also hated the gym’s vibe (super corporate, all of my clients and colleagues also go there so it felt like networking a lot of the time) and only went for yoga and spinning. There are two yoga studios and spin studios close to my new place, but I’m not sure if it will cause me to workout less not having them close to work – I would have to go early in the morning or after work instead of at lunch. Pre-COVID, did you prefer having your gym closer to work or home and why?
Tea/Coffee
Pre-covid, I definitely benefited from having my gym (one stop shop) halfway between work and home. I literally had to drive past it to get to work, so developing the early-AM habit was easy. I did not prefer the at-work option bc i didn’t want to deal with lugging my gym bag around all day, showering with coworkers, and a much smaller roster of classes.
Working out on weekends – the gym was still reasonably close, so i could go if i wanted, but tbh rarely did!
Anon
I was able to find a small chain gym that has a location one block from my office, a location about mid-way between office and home, and a location about a mile from home. I used different locations depending where I was at any given moment. Are there any gyms with multiple locations that might work for your new arrangement?
anon
I prefer my gym closer to home. In fact, I can see my gym from my apartment. My preferred workout time is early morning and I hate public showers, so I enjoy being able to get ready at home (bonus: don’t have to lug a gym bag around). Second choice of workout time is weekends so again, having it close to home is helpful.
Anon
This question is really just your personal preference and routine, but for another data point for me as a full time working mom my only time to really work our hard is during lunch on a work day so my gym is by my office (nowhere near my home). On the weekends I run, supplement with one off studio workouts nearby, or now post-COVID I will likely keep up some at home workouts.
Anonanonanon
Closer to work. I have to work out before work, and I prefer classes, and have a 40-50 minute commute. I would go to the gym that was right by work, do my workout, shower and get dressed without my husband/kids around, get my coffee, and go to work. Sigh. I miss it.
Downside- couldn’t hit evening or weekend classes. I had a class package to a hot yoga place closer to home for the times I wanted to do that.
Fancy china figurines
Do people have / display fancy china figurines? My MIL gave my kids large (12-18″) china figurines. I think that they are expensive and look very fragile. Keep in a box until the kids move out? I think that they may be like Madame Alexander dolls, which some of my older relatives have / display in a case, but none of my cousins have (or want from when their parents / great aunts downsize).
Anonymous
Your kids should be able to handle not breaking stuff long before they move out. I’d stick them on a bookshelf.
CPA Lady
Yes. Mostly elderly people. Or hipsters who can make weird old knickknacks look cool.
What a strange gift for a child. Someone gave me a porcelain doll as a child and it stayed in a box forever and now I have it and idk what to do with it. I let my kid play with it for a bit but she was a little bit rough with it and I had visions of the doll’s face getting smashed on the floor and my kid in tears. So it went back in the box. It’s just a waste of space.
anne-on
I BEGGED for a ‘real’ porcelain doll as an 8-9 year old (this was just before American girl dolls took off and I desperately wanted a bigger ‘fancy’ doll, not a barbie). My great-aunt collected hummel figurines and gave a few of them to my female cousins and I. I can see this being a treasured gift for the right kind of older child.
But now? Dust catchers. I haaaate china figures and have re-gifted or donated the ones my MIL kept trying to gift us (over our strong objections) until she finally got it.
Anon
Pre-Covid I used to frequent estate sales and it was amazing to me how many older people collected china figurines (and also collectible plates, commemorative Christmas ornaments, etc.) and how many of them they had. And then the person would die and literally no one would be interested in these things that the person had spent years and bunches of money collecting. I asked an estate sale worker one time, what happens to this stuff when it doesn’t sell and she shrugged and said “we take it to the landfill.”
I dunno. Maybe I am more of a minimalist but I can’t see having shelves and shelves of things that don’t do anything that sit there. And then when I die someone has to throw it out. What’s the point?
waffles
My grandmother apparently gave her porcelain dolls to my sister and I before she passed away. My mom knew that we wouldn’t want them, so they are happily living in my mom’s cabinet. I think she probably keeps them because she feels obligated to. There’s a consignment shop in my area that sells these for like $20 now. It’s like old dishes and silverware – much higher supply for these as elderly people downsize or pass on as compared with demand.
Sloan Sabbith
I got the Josef age porcelain figurines from 0-16 from my godmother. They’re still sitting on a high shelf in my old bedroom at my parents’ house. I’m not sure when I’ll ever want them for decor…possibly never. They’re very fussy and old lady gift material. Not in a cool way.
Diana Barry
Or, put them up in the kids’ rooms, and when the kids break them, win-win?
Anon
+1000. LMAO
Lilliet
I vote for this!
anon
+1
Anonymous
OP here: This may be the best outcome. Kids are in emo and proto-goth phases, so the figurines will be resented unless they can be labeled IRONIC.
Now, how to word the thank-you letter so that there is thanking without opening the door to “one for every holiday and life event, pls”.
Junior Associate
Hahaha. Yes!
Aunt Jamesina
Yes! I received a terrifying Victorian-style porcelain doll from my godmother when I was around 5, and the lasted probably all of 20 minutes before I dropped it and broke an arm off. Nobody wants these any more, and your kids won’t want them once they’re “old enough”.
Anonymous
We have a few china figurines that I keep in a display cabinet that has doors that I can only describe as being made of chicken wire. I absolutely would not put them out on a table or a mantle – one of my mom’s figurines lost her head that way, and another has a chip in her ball gown. I don’t remember what we were doing when they fell to their doom, but it wasn’t playing football indoors or anything exciting.
Maudie Atkinson
A cabinet with wire-paneled doors is a probably a pie safe. Not relevant to the conversation, but I am charmed by the idea of a pie safe and wanted to share.
Anonymous
Thank you! I went and looked at a bunch of images of pie safes, and it looks like it is a fancy version of one of those – it was my great grandmother’s and she and my grandmother always stored china in it. We’ve always called it the chicken coop :)
Maudie Atkinson
My great grandmother had one too. There were always treats of various kinds inside, including a compact full of snuff if you looked hard enough.
Lily
I would put up a floating shelf in your kids’ room and put them there, out of reach, at least during times when MIL is visiting.
Cat
I have a few Lladro pieces from my grandparents that I actually find attractive (muted tones).
I “style” them (sigh, for lack of a less influencer-term on the tip of my tongue) either for interest on our bookshelf (I push in a few of the titles deeper to create a niche) or intermingled with glassware, framed pictures, etc. on the open shelves of our china cabinet.
Never too many shoes...
Total opposite here. My mother has an extensive collection of Royal Doulton and Lladro and I have told her they are all going on ebay when the time comes as I cannot stand them. The Lladro in particular have freaked me out since I was a child with their pale faces.
Cat
lol, I’d feel differently if they were everywhere. With 3 small pieces, I like the variety they add… but agreed that a whole houseful is WAY too much.
Ms B
My favorite great-aunt (who was my patronus in all things) left me some Lladros that I used to play with as a child at her house. They are one of my favorite things. They live in my china hutch along with (among other things) a British royal commemorative wedding plate, a couple asparagus servers, and the silverplate julep cups and the vintage crystal I picked up at an auction of the type Waffles mentioned. Retro cocktails taste extra good in the vintageware!
Clearly, I was destined to be an old long before I get there chronologically.
Anonymous
OMG flashback to the Sopranos episode re Carmella’s Lladro figurines
Senior Attorney
YES!!
Dyson?
What is the Dyson animal cordless vacuum that everyone likes? The dogs are shedding like mad right now, and I’ve got to find an easier way to stay on top of it.
waffles
we have the V10 and it’s fantastic. My husband vacuums all the time. It’s our third dyson, and we haven’t even taken the old cordless (or even older upright) out of the garage. The newer models have better suction and are quieter. We also got the floor stand for storage, and it’s a lot more convenient than the wall mounted charger.
TheElms
The floor stand on amazon is $100+ Are there knockoffs or is it cheaper somewhere? Seems like a lot to me!
Anonymous
You can get refurbished Dyson products on their official ebay page (including air wrap and hair dryers!)
Anon
On the breeder’s advice, when the dog sheds, we blow his loose undercoat hair out of his coat with a blower and I can’t believe what a huge difference it makes to the house. It beats the heck out of any brush. We do it outside and it takes about 30 minutes. It’s loud but our dog is used to it and just kinda waits for it to be over. So worth it.
Anon
Ours is different but something similar:
https://www.chewy.com/go-pet-club-step-less-adjustable/dp/243816?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=Go%20Pet%20Club&utm_term=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqtL6666J6gIV-xitBh0ezwVFEAQYAiABEgId8PD_BwE
Anonymous
Whoever photoshopped the model’s head onto that photo did a terrible job. It looks like a kid cut the head out of one photo with scissors and pasted it on.
Anon
i also personally think this shirt is horrible looking and looks very uncomfortable and sheer
Panda Bear
Yeah this shirt is a great big nope for me. I think this style of blouse can be very pretty, but the execution here is not working.
Never too many shoes...
There is just too much everything on that blouse – the ruff and the rose patters and the trim…just no. No.
Anon
It looks like something my quirky music teacher would have worn with Fluevogs. It is definitely a look but not my look.
Anon
Yes, the photo is awful and distracts from the blouse!!
Anonymous
Never mind the head, what is with the far hand???
Eek
Haha! I didn’t notice but now I can’t un-see it. Truly terrible photoshop job.
anon
So, anyone else struggling in their marriages since COVID started? Honestly, this has taken me by surprise. The stress (2 full-time jobs, 2 young kids underfoot) has had a particularly negative impact on me. I feel like I can’t get any space to breathe. And I have some resentment about doing more of the cleaning/household stuff — we canceled the cleaning service for a while and of course, I picked up the slack. We haven’t had s#x in two months, which is underheard of for us. Whatever delicate balance we’d achieved to make things feel “fair” has been obliterated.
On top of the COVID crap, my beloved grandpa died two weeks ago, and I cry every evening when I finally get to slow down. I don’t even know where to start repairing my relationship. Date nights and fun couple times feel like an impossible hurdle right now, and really, I just want to be left alone because I have zero energy left to deal. DH sort of flits around and says, “however you need me to help, I’ll do it!” and I want to smack him because that puts the responsibility squarely back on me.
Anonymous
Tell him you need to leave the house for a day and come home to it clean, tidy, with kids fed and ready for bed. It sounds like your marriage is fine but you’re exhausted and overwhelmed and grieving.
Senior Attorney
This sounds like a great idea.
Anon
While it sounds fantastic, it doesn’t sound feasible? If I was alone with kids for a whole day and DH expected the house to be clean and tidy when he got home I’d laugh in his face. Exception being, is there a house cleaner you have access to?
Flats Only
I like this. It fits neatly into his request that “however you need me to help, I’ll do it” – it’s not a slight aimed at him, you just need a little quiet time and he can help! Find a hotel (they’re super clean these days) , call and get a reservation set up in a way that will allow you to check in in the morning and veg out / nap / bath / watch TV all day. Preferably tasty room service will be involved. Maybe even spend one night if that would help. Turn your phone off so you don’t become a remote resource for “where are Billy’s shoes” questions.
Anon4this
A couple thoughts (all have been helpful in my marriage):
– chore resentment is a thing. One thing that was helpful was dividing up responsibilities 100%. So he does dishes, kid am. I do the cooking and kid pm stuff, etc. it’s better if you have him do things you won’t be tempted to do for him if he doesn’t do it.
– I found it helpful to talk about secondary emotions underneath anger while using I statements and saying what I want. So instead of “You don’t help with any chores and I am so angry” say “I am feel sad and resentful doing all the chores, I would appreciate it if we could divide them up fairly”
– it was helpful to work towards finding an emotional connection again, I found it that it helps to let go of the small things
– highly recommend Divorce remedy and other books by the same author
Anon
Yes you have to explicitly divide up the chores, together, and omg F the OP’s husband who’s willing to “help.” Bro, it’s your house too. You’re not helping. You’re Supposed to be partnering.
(I get similarly irritated when dads call watching their own kids babysitting, implying it’s not really your job to do so, ie parenting)
Anonymous
I’m so sorry about your grandpa. To the extent that you can, let everything else slide right now, even all the marriage stuff. The stress of the pandemic, of working, of childcare, etc. is being overlaid and exacerbated by the grief, and it all looks overwhelming right now. To whatever level you’re able, simply let the grief take its course.
(Can you get the cleaners back?)
Vicky Austin
I’m so sorry about your grandpa. It really sounds like you’re hurting. I would let your husband sink or swim, honestly. Put everything on the back burner except what you need to do to grieve and recover. Let him figure it out.
Anon
We are struggling for a different reason. I want to share so you are not alone but at the same time our life (no kids) sounds easy by comparison. I am a lawyer and he is not. I have billable hours, he does not. He likes to start work at 7 am. I don’t get going until 9 am. He is crazy efficient and can get his work done fast. I have ADHD and it takes me longer than most people to complete tasks because I have to take a lot of breaks.
When we were working in the office, he would come home around 5, let the dogs out, work out, maybe grocery shop, start dinner and I’d roll in around 6:30 and we’d have dinner and a relaxing night together. Now he is done with everything by 3 or 4 and gets annoyed if I’m not free to hang out with him by 5.
So I started taking breaks in my day to eat lunch w/ him or stop at 5 and have a cocktail with him and hang until dinner and go back to work after dinner until bedtime. But that annoyed him more because then he was alone all evening. He entertained himself solo just fine when we were working in the office but I think he was getting his socialization out with his coworkers and happy to veg at home after work.
He’s even suggested I look for work with less hours. As far as attorney work goes I have super low billable hours expectations so I don’t think I could find a more forgiving job. So he then suggests maybe I do other work that’s not as an attorney. I don’t think he realizes that most people in the corporate world do not work a clean 9-5 or 7-3.
What adds insult to injury is our quarantine circle included our next door neighbors who are our age and were usually done with work by 4 too. So I would stop work so we could do a group dog walk but that meant I had to do more work later.
So I constantly feel like I’m either not doing enough work for make my work happy or I’m not having enough free time to make my husband happy when I’m the only person he can socialize with right now.
I’ve started doing some short days followed by some long days so my weekly hours even out and that he gets more of my time a couple of days per week.
I would absolutely love to suddenly become a morning person who is focused on my work and can get all my billable hours in between 8-5 but it is just not possible for me no matter how hard I try. It sucks.
anon
Why can’t your husband watch TV or a read a book or something? Asking you to consider changing your career mid-pandemic because he doesn’t know how to quash his own boredom is really pathetic. Lots of people are missing their social lives right now but are finding ways to cope.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.
Anon
I suspect he’s going through some stuff. We’ve been together 20 years and he’s never had a serious issue with my job except for at times wishing we had more time to spend together.
We both have had a really rough 2020, beyond the things in the news, and I’ve dealt by going to therapy and he hasn’t dealt. So I think that’s where some of this is coming from.
This isn’t a DTMFA situation. This is a new to pandemic issue that we are working to resolve. Some of it is on me because a normal person can get up and work efficiently and have more time as a family. It likely seems to him I’m prioritizing FB and blogs and breaks over him but that’s how my brain works. I’m trying to fix that some because I actually want to do a lot of the evening activities that are available to me now that we are loosening up some. For example, we live near a river and go paddling with the neighbors.
Long story short, we’ve found out kids aren’t in the cards for us and I think he is struggling with figuring out what his days will be like over the next 20 years. I think he was looking forward (rose colored glasses style) to parenting until I got home from work. Now it’s him and the pets.
anon
I didn’t mean for it to come across at DTMFA (and I’m sorry if it did) just that he should take a little more responsibility for his own happiness rather than making you shoulder the burden. It sounds like you’re working through it as best you can and I sincerely wish you luck!
Anon
No advice but sympathy and commiseration from someone also married to a grown ass man who cannot entertain himself.
Anonymous
Same. I don’t understand it. There are so many things I want to do that I never have enough time to do them all. My husband is apparently incapable of entertaining himself. Whenever I try to do anything, he complains that he is bored and lonely. Yet when I suggest things to do together, he rejects all of them. All he wants to do is sit on the couch, read the news, and watch movies, and for some reason I have to sit there watching him do it.
Anon
DH and I also have struggled with this issue. He starts work by 8 and would finish by 4 during quarantine. He was also 50% furloughed, so he was not working on Monday or Friday. I’m an attorney in healthcare, so I was working more than usual, often on emergencies. He often wanted to hang out in the afternoon, etc. and would get frustrated if I wasn’t able to take a dog walk at 3 pm. That being said, I sometimes was taking breaks in the middle of the day that would make me work longer, etc.
DH has gotten a new job, so this has gotten somewhat better– part of the issue was that he had a lot of angst due to his employment situation and wanted someone to go through it with him. I couldn’t support him while I was working, and he had no one else to talk to. He also seems to have a better understanding of what I do now that we WFH’d together for so long and finds my job more important than before (he makes more than me) since he has realized my career path is more stable than his.
Anon
SAME SAME SAME. I’m a management consultant, I work crazy long hours (and get paid well, though not biglaw well). My husband stops work at the same time in the early afternoon every day and gets very frustrated that I have to work in the evenings just to keep my head above water as I’m on a tough project that is a new subject area for me. He is glad that I’m no longer on the road four days a week and is trying to be understanding, but it’s tough feeling like I’m not excelling as a wife (or really as a professional).
Anon
Billable hours are straight killing me during WFH in the middle of pandemic/civil unrest right now in the US. My husband’s work keeps him busy, but he is not accountable to justify every 6 minutes of his time, so he can have shorter days or take lots of breaks, as long as he is responsive and meeting deadlines. It’s just not the same type of work. I have always despised billing (love my cases and clients, just hate to bill), but that resentment is at an all time high right now.
anon
I’m so sorry for your loss. That is a big blow, particularly on top of all of the other stress.
I’m not sure where you are and your risk tolerance, but could you think about restarting your cleaning service? We (2 finance jobs + 2 toddlers) just restarted ours, and it has been a lifesaver.
Depending on your relationship/communication with your husband, could you “assign” him a set of tasks? I know that is annoying to have to do, but if you say “I’ll do breakfast and lunch every day, but you are in charge of dinner” (or whatever) then you could have a clear demarcation of duties.
On a less high road note, I have also been known to “forget” to do things that I know annoy him more than me (e.g. make the bed), which also helps…
Anonymous
“Hon, I’m really struggling. Really. And it’s starting to affect how I view our marriage. Could you take the kids for a weekend while I go to a B&B for some R&R? I need to grieve, I need to sleep, I need time to myself. I’m looking at next weekend – is there any reason that doesn’t work for you?”
CountC
Cue the groans, but having one or two telehealth therapy sessions might help you identify ways to work through this both on your own and also provide strategies to help with how to communicate how you are feeling to your SO.
I am not married, to take this with a grain of salt, but talking things out with my therapist when I am having issues in a relationship always helps me identify (a) how to communicate how I am feeling in a more effective way and (b) what steps I can take for myself and my relationship to get back to where I would like it to be or to identify what needs to change and how to either make the changes myself or work with my partner on the changes.
CountC
I am an A-hole – I am also very sorry for your loss.
Junior Associate
I’m so sorry for your loss. This is a lot, and it’s perfectly natural that all the stress is taking its toll on your relationship. I’m not married, nor do I have kids, so my situation is probably a lot easier than yours — but I feel angry and resentful towards SO when I’m burnt out and stressed, even if he says he wants to help. Sometimes I just need to be left alone, sleep in, and do yoga for a few days without worrying about Things To Do, which I understand is really hard with young kids. I don’t know if you’re looking for advice, but +1 to restarting cleaning service / sending out laundry (wash-and-fold) if you are comfortable with it.
Junior Associate
And also +1 to dropping things and letting DH figure it out.
Boston Legal Eagle
Can you get some childcare and cleaning help? I know Covid poses risks, but doing it all yourselves also has risks to your overall mental and physical health. For those who say we need to keep isolating… well it’s extremely difficult to both work and take care of kids full time for months or years on end. So while you can take precautions about who you bring in, I think it will help your marriage and give you space to take some time for yourself to grieve and just be alone. For the marriage, could you both take a day off work while someone else is watching the kids to reconnect and have a lunch date (at home or just a walk around the neighborhood)?
anne-on
First, I am so, so very sorry for your loss. That must be incredibly hard. It is totally understandable that you’re in grieving mode right now and just zapped.
For the equitable division of labor around, well, everything right now, I strongly suggest the book fair play. If you don’t have time to read it together (I get it!) she has a guide for Covid-19 coping. The biggest game-changer for us was the idea of “CPE” conceive-plan-execute. Whoever is responsible for a task (say groceries) doesn’t just say – give me the list, I’ll get whatever you want, which means YOU need to mentally meal plan and then figure out what items you need. THEY plan the meals for the week, add those items to the list, add in anything else needed (paper products, pet food, snacks, etc.), shop (and sub in new items if others aren’t available, and put away groceries at home. Same idea for other ‘cards’ – see the difference? I told my husband that he’s a manager at work – if he told his boss ‘I’ll do what you need me to do’ and never took ownership he’d be fired. If he kept it up at home we’d divorce (no, I wasn’t kidding, yes we went to counseling over that and other issues). The thing I am most grateful for is that we did a LOT of counseling and discussion of time/childcare/household labor before lock down, otherwise we almost certainly would be coming out of this in emergency counseling or separating.
Sample schedule: https://www.fairplaylife.com/sample-schedule
https://www.fairplaylife.com/covid-19-toolkit
anon
Thank you — I will definitely check that out. The good news is that we are restarting the cleaning service soon, which should help. But, I think I need to frame this more in management terms, like you’re saying.
Anon
First of all, I’m so sorry about your grandfather. Losing grandparents is a terrible loss.
As for the marriage question, my husband and I haven’t had any issues and I think there are a few factors that you might be able to consider for your situation. First, we each have our own permanent chores that we do so there’s no “first person who sees the overflowing trash takes it out – oh wait when did my husband go blind” battle. This means that we’re not spending time debating chores and we can just get better/faster at our own regular chores. Second, we unplug from work and spend quality time together each day, even if we end up doing our own things later in the evening. Third, we cuddle and give each other massages (and now haircuts…thanks COVID), even if we don’t have sex that night. It helps to connect. We’ve inside 99% of the time and this has all helped us stay happy.
Good luck getting through this – it won’t be forever.
Cb
I’m right there with you. Our cleaner hasn’t been here since mid-March and now that we’re home all day, our very small house gets untidy and dirty fast. My husband’s job is intense right now and mine is intense in a different way (needing time and space to write while seeing academic career dreams crumble as higher education seems on the verge of collapse). We need to do a reset this weekend because I think we’re both feeling annoyed and resentful and that’s not how I want to feel.
Anonanonanon
I’m so sorry and yes, this is very normal.
My husband and I never ever fight and we had a huge fight (me yelling and crying, I think I threw a pillow out of frustration right after he left the room, both said some hurtful things) towards the beginning of COVID. I think that scared us both enough to not want it to happen again. It also made us prioritize getting childcare help ASAP because a lot of the frustration was that we both have demanding, COVID-response-associated jobs that make around the same amount of money but, because mine could be done remotely, I was stuck with the childcare and everything and really resented that, in my mind, it implied my job and role in the response was less important. Of course it’s not his fault he had to go into his office every day and I didn’t, but it felt that way.
I’m immunocompromised and was very worried about bringing someone into our home ,but we easily found a candidate who was on the same page as us. I had my husband take care of finding someone and narrowing it down to the final two without me. That helped a lot. It felt “fair” to me and took the burden of solving a problem that was disproportionately affecting me off of my plate.
I have ADHD, too, so I find it so interesting you take breaks. I can’t refocus after a break or shift gears easily, which was a lot of my stress. I have to get “in the zone” and go go go. Once I stop, I can’t restart, so logging back on in the evenings isn’t really an option for me beyond basic inbox cleanup etc.
Anyway, something my husband said during our argument that helped is “This is literally one of the most difficult things and difficult times we will ever live through personally and for our careers. We have to be on the same team right now more than ever.” It was a good reminder that this is literally a historically awful time, of course we’re stressed, and just making it through at all is an accomplishment. We just have to weather the storm.
Anon
OK, I left a comment that was going into the queue, but it looks like it just disappeared entirely? td;dr: what has helped us avoid any problems in our marriage right now is to assign each person permanent chores to reduce discussion/fights about chores, spend a little quality time together daily, and connect physically with massages and things like that even if you can’t or don’t want to have s*x. This has all helped us a lot and we have a very strong marriage right now with no major problems.
I’m also so sorry to hear about your grandpa.
Amber
So sorry for your loss! Lots of good advice on here already – I hope that you can find a way to make time for yourself. Could your husband take over when he finishes work to give you some alone time on some evenings – take a walk, a bath, etc? Sending you hugs – hang in there.
Anon
I’m sorry about your grandpa. You’re definitely not the only one in this boat. My husband and I aren’t really fighting but we aren’t connecting and s*x is definitely the last thing on my mind. With my whole family stuck in our house 24/7 it’s just way too much togetherness and when the kids are finally asleep I want to be ALONE and not be touched. I’m hoping it will be better when daycare reopens and we at least have the kids out of the house 40+ hours per week, but who knows how long that will last (they’re opening in September and I fully expect them to be closed again by October). Sigh.
anon
Yes, that describes it really well. We’re not fighting, but we’re not connecting and everything feels off-kilter. I am hoping to have child care for at least the youngest kiddo very soon, which hopefully relieves some of the pressure.
Walnut
Same. Childcare isn’t helping. We just need to not spend every single minute within 10 feet of each other. Our state is still mostly closed, so “getting away” isn’t an option.
anonchicago
I’m having a lot of issues as well. We got married last year so are still adjusting to one another, plus before I traveled 3-4 days a week and he traveled some as well, and now we’re in the same apartment 24/7 trying to juggle Zoom calls without killing each other. He’s become critical of my job and my weight, which are things he never had an issue with before, and I’ve become depressed and some nights just can’t get out of bed. We’re supposed to start TTC soon and I just can’t right now with the state of the world and our relationship. We’re still working through general marriage issues like division of labor, finances, and schedules, and throwing a pandemic on top of that has made it really rough.
There have been some really rough days and I have told him more than once that I want to file for divorce. We are doing remote couple’s counseling, but I try to keep in mind something I saw here recently from I think Senior Attorney – “decide not to decide right now”. We both want our relationship to work out, and if it takes awhile to stabilize, then that’s better than ending things without giving everything a shot.
Anonymous
He’s critical of your weight? Just get a divorce now. You’ve only been married a year and he’s already being mean to you.
Anonymous
Yea that is NOT okay. Full stop.
Senior Attorney
I agree. I was married to that guy and it doesn’t get any better.
Also spoiler alert? When I lost weight he found something else to be mean about.
Anonanonanon
Stay on your birth control. Don’t get stuck dealing with a mean man for the rest of your life because you had a baby together. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this, it is not OK.
Anon
+1 sounds like you already put TTC on hold, but please do not TTC unless you feel 100% confident in your relationship. If you’re throwing around the divorce word, you should be doubling up on birth control. A baby can throw the strongest relationship for a loop, and never helps a bad one.
Anonymous
DO NOT TTC until you resolve your marriage issues. A baby ties you to him for the rest of your life.
Anon
If you’ve gotten to a point where you’ve actually told him you want a divorce, that’s what you really want. Listen to yourself.
Anonymous
+1
Ses
+1
Anonymous
Hugs. So many hugs. Look, from what you’ve written here, this isn’t a COVID thing, this isn’t a “stabilization” thing – this is a “we aren’t compatible and probably shouldn’t have gotten married thing.” When you’re with the right person it’s wonderful and easy (not that I don’t want to strangle him when he does X thing, just that day-to-day life isn’t a struggle or a chore) and full of love and forgiveness and acceptance for one another. I am so sorry that’s not the case for this relationship, but you can make a clean break while you’re not too entwined and learn from this. Good luck to you <3
Airplane.
This is supposed to be the honeymoon period – you got married last year and he is critical of your weight while you are experiencing depression? No girl. Do not have a child with this man, double up on BC and consider separating, even a trial separation so you can get a handle on your depression and getting out of bed every day without issue before you tackle marital issues.
Anon
I agree that there are some major red flags here that go beyond the COVID situation, including the weight criticism, but I just want to say I really take issue with the characterization of the first year of marriage as a “honeymoon period.” The beginning of a relationship and falling in love should be easy. Learning how to be married (and in some cases, learning how to live together) is a whole different ballgame. It’s actually a cliche that the first year of marriage is really hard, and like most cliches there’s more than a grain of truth to it. OP definitely needs counseling with her husband to work on their relationship before they consider TTC, but she doesn’t need the added pressure of beating herself up because this so-called “honeymoon period” is hard. It’s ok (and honestly pretty normal) for it to be hard.
Anon
Not me, but my BFF is about to move out of her house and file for a legal separation. She is furloughed and her husband is still working, and has amped up his work (it wasn’t a requirement of his job; he’s self-employed and chose to go into overdrive mode) so he’s busy 8a-8p. And he dumped all of the household responsibilities on her. They hadn’t been in a great place before this but I think quarantine will end up being the straw that breaks the camel’s back.
OP, I am so sorry for the loss of your grandfather. I agree with others who have said, you are grieving, and may be for some time. That isn’t the core issue but it is definitely contributing to your overall stress level. If there’s any way you could get out for a day (long solo hike?) or even an overnight (go see family?), it would probably help a lot. I would not take on the responsibility of “repairing your relationship” right now. He will survive. Focus on taking care of your kids (by which I mean, doing the least amount of parenting possible to ensure they are safe, fed, clothed, etc.), working as much as you need to to keep your job, and let the rest go until you can work through some of your grief. Relationships are not all about one person making it work, and if he’s concerned, he can ask questions and try to work on some things.
Nesprin
I’m having a rough week- one parent has full blown dementia and the other was in the hospital with cardiac stuff. My spouse believes that because he does house projects he should be immune from the sort of chores that need doing every day (dishes, laundry, cleaning, cooking). I’m working from home full time (which I also hate- hadn’t realized quite what an extrovert I am), and he’s not, but hasn’t picked up any of the stuff I usually do. There’s no way this period of time would have been fun, but I’m getting resentful and angry that so much ends up on my plate.
Anon
OP, I am sorry for the loss of your grandpa. I lost my grandmother last year and it was a very difficult time. It is hard to focus when you are grieving, and with everything else going on in the world right now, things are tough even without that personal emotional blow, so be kind to yourself.
It is also natural right now to have be having a hard time juggling your marriage and seeing every single thing (even things that you might enjoy) as another item on a to-do list that you do not have the energy to complete. Give yourself permission to just get things done at work and at home. Not get them done perfectly, or maybe not your best work, but you complete the task and that is enough. Even apply this to spending time with your husband right now. Sit down with him and just have dinner or watch a show on Netflix with him. You do not need to solve every problem in your marriage right now, but doing something positive together and letting just being with him be a comfort to you may allow you to start moving things in the right direction.
anon
This made me tear up, in a good way. I am so, so sad. My grandpa was my last living grandparent. We were close, often talking weekly and seeing each other at least every couple of weeks. Then COVID happened and we couldn’t visit him in his long-term care place. He had been dealing with some health issues before this, but I honestly believe he died of loneliness. And I am so angry about it.
You’re right that minimum effort is going to have to be enough, on all fronts.
Marie
Not sure if you will see this, but I was the Anon from above you responded to here. I just want to follow up by saying it is okay to just allow yourself to feel sad and angry. I had a very similar relationship with my grandmother to one you described, and I struggled with feelings of loss, but also of anger about how her life ended. With some distance, you will be able to look beyond the end of your grandfather’s life and focus on the good memories and knowing that he knew how much you loved him.
For now, things are very raw, and you just need to feel your feelings without trying to “do anything” about them. Just keep repeating to yourself that getting through each day right now is enough. Decide what is actually necessary for your work, your marriage, your family, and to take care of yourself mentally and physically and put your energy into doing those things. Everything else is going to have to wait or get done at whatever level you can manage. As I said above, just get things done and don’t let perfection be the enemy of complete right now. You will get through this time and be able to run your life to whatever your usual standards are, but that does not have to be today or even tomorrow.
Extrovert Anon Struggling
Vent post: I moved to the DMV during COVID (blessed to get a job). I have friends here but all at the opposite ends of a large area, and meeting up is hard now even though we’re in Phase II. I’m super extroverted and have really been struggling. Great job, I’m where I want to be geographically, but not having the social element is so hard. When I started the plan to move, the world looked so different. It’s even silly to ask “tips making friends as an adult” because HOW right now. Or how even after?? Hugs to anyone who needs it.
Anonymous
I totally totally feel you as a single extrovert during this.
I would take a day and find the meetup/religious/museum/alumni etc. groups that are local that you would have participated in the before times. Then start participating in their online options. The DMV is very active on this front. Caveat, it will likely suck and feel artificial. But do it anyways. Then, when things start opening up and you feel safe, go to the outdoor events they hold. You’ll already be a familiar face and have kickstarted the process.
For instance, my church group has had a couple people join our social zooms because they will be moving to the area. Absolutely everyone understands what a bizarre time this is and made a real effort to get them involved in the conversation.
Best of luck!
Anon
Hey thanks for the recommendation on layering antihistamines. I’m now taking Claritin in the morning and Zyrtec before bed and continuing to use Azelastine spray twice a day, and my coughing is greatly reduced!