Coffee Break: Jungalow

126 Comments

1. This would be great for a powder room. The smaller space would let this really shine without being overwhelming.

   1. I hate wallpaper with the fire of a thousand suns, mainly b/c my relationship is merely with removing it. That said, I could see putting some of this on a large foam backer (like for conference booths) and living with it in a defined space.

      1. This pattern would be great as a fabric (curtains, sheets) where it’s portable and can be switched out when you need a break.

         1. It comes also as a scarf :)

         2. Yeah i can’t imagine having, say, the stomach flu and having to stare at this all day.

            1. Then don’t put it up?

            2. I think as a kid I would actually have enjoyed that more than staring at blank walls!

            3. Anon 4:15, I didn’t realize we weren’t allowed to say we didn’t like something. Did you just make up this rule by yourself?

         3. When I was a very broke student, I literally framed and hung fancy wallpaper samples in an arrangement on the wall. Haven’t thought about those days in years!

2. I used to live where women wore veils (if not a full chador). Their eyes looked so lovely always. I think it was a strong brow and minimal everything else. Maybe liner? I feel like in a mask I look so blah. I need to up my eye game but don’t know where to start. And like a “professional” eye game — nothing Kardashian.

   1. kohl liner is very common in the middle east and India

      1. I learned (after being in the middle east and buying kohl) that real kohl is kind of bad for you. At least according to the FDA: https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/cosmetic-products/eye-cosmetic-safety

         Luckily there are plenty of substitutes.

   2. What about a simple cat eye on your top lids, waterline the bottom lid and a volumizing mascara?

      1. I object to the phrase “simple cat eye” — there is nothing simple about it. I cannot seem to master it and love the look on those who can!

   3. I cannot do my brows to save my life (and honestly I feel like a very strong instagram brow is just not my style). For daily makeup a swipe of the laura mercier caviar stick and mascara is about all I do – they are a bit thicker than normal eye liner so they are a bit more visible, and I find they stay on really well throughout a loooong day. If you have more time and energy to do your eyes, the viseart eye shadows (available on sephora) are super pigmented and easy to work with but cheaper than say, Pat McGrath.
      https://www.lauramercier.com/caviar-stick-eye-colour-12606173.html

   4. I’ve not worn lipstick in months because I’m always wearing a mask when not home. I’d love to wear eye makeup but it just doesn’t work as well with glasses and bangs. I joked that I look like the Unabomber when I wear my sunglasses and mask. Not a good look.

3. Love this! I have been following Justina for a while now and I LOVE her aesthetic!

   1. The wallpaper would look amazing behind a lime green velvet loveseat!

      1. Ha! Right?

4. Does anyone have experience donating for this? You can have recovered or have had a + antibody test.

   1. I don’t think this is true. I had a positive antibody test (although I’m skeptical I actually had it – I never had symptoms and my husband is not + for antibodies). I inquired about giving plasma to my local hospital, but was told I needed to have had a prior confirmed case of COVID (by diagnostic test). Red Cross says the same thing “prior, verified diagnosis of COVID-19”: https://www.redcrossblood.org/donate-blood/dlp/plasma-donations-from-recovered-covid-19-patients.html

      1. My blood bank is different — prior confirmed illness or + antibody test (in my area, testing has been hard to come by, so it would be rare for people to have had a test even if they were sick; we were generally told “go to the ER if you can’t breathe otherwise isolate for 2 weeks”).

         On their website they want a titre of 160 (somethingths per something) but 80 will do. I think that it is any port in a storm at this point now that our local cases are surging.

5. How do you generally split joint costs with a significant other?

   The question this morning about splitting vacation costs with a SO raised this question for me. I make significantly more than my boyfriend at the moment, since he is finishing grad school, and will probably make between 50% more and double his income when he starts working full time. Given the pandemic, he has been spending about 4 days a week at my place (he has roommates and I have a pet, so I don’t really spend much time at his place) and I have been paying for all the grocery expenses for the meals we eat at my place. I also pay more than half the time when we get take out. A huge part of me says that I don’t care because I really see this relationship as being long term and leading to marriage, and I also suspect he will start paying for more once he starts working full-time. If I didn’t want to pay for something or wanted to start spending less, he would have no objection – I spend the money because it is a thing I want to do and am the one to suggest takeout 99% of the time. He also won’t let me pay for things that are clearly his even when I have offered, so I have no sense that he is taking advantage of me.

   Maybe writing this all out just further convinced me that I don’t care if I pay for more.

   1. 100% combined. Before we were married, it was about 90% combined. Our paychecks go into the same account and there is zero differentiation between “his” and “my” money. Highly recommend.

      1. Agree, everything post marriage is 100% combined. BUT I had a significant amount of $ in post-tax investment accounts, and those have stayed in my name alone (although he’s a beneficiary).

      2. This is totally the approach that I want to take once we are (hopefully) married, but I don’t feel comfortable with it pre-marriage and especially not pre-engagement.

   2. Following. I’m in a similar position to you, except that my boyfriend is working already. We are handling expenses essentially like you are. Assuming we continue our current career paths for the foreseeable future, I’ll continue making more than he does. I don’t mind paying more for things, in part because I don’t want to limit what we can do, but also because he contributes in so many non-monetary ways that I cannot do because I stink at them or have time constraints. He’s absolutely an equal partner when it comes to chores, cooks pretty much everything, meal plans, plans our trips, handles all bookings, and just takes on the mental load of keeping a two-person pseudo-household running. Part of the reason that he can do all of these things is that he’s got a lot more time and bandwidth than I do because his job is less demanding and pays less. If I can contribute to our relationship using money, then I still feel like I’m getting the better end of the deal.

   3. We combined after we got engaged/moved in together. We got a joint checking account. Before then I think we pretty much alternated/split stuff , but we both made the same amount (basically nothing) so it didn’t really matter.

   4. We split 50-50 before marriage but we had similarly low incomes. After marriage, we fully combined finances and have a “joint pot.”

   5. When my now-husband and I first started dating, I was about to start law school, and I moved in with him (into a house he owns) just a couple of months after starting law school. During that time, our money was kept entirely separately (ha! what money for me? I didn’t have any) but he paid 100% of all of our household expenses like the mortgage, groceries, etc. because I wasn’t really in a position to contribute. However, now that I’m working, I make a good bit more than he does. We put a set amount of money into joint checking and savings accounts each month and use those joint accounts to pay for household expenses, dog stuff, vacations, and we also each maintain separate checking and savings accounts and that’s what we use for our personal spending like clothes, hobbies, etc. (but we are in a community property state with no pre-nup so legally it’s all joint money, we just maintain it separately for spending purposes.) We currently put the same amount into our joint accounts so that the split is 50/50, but we’ve discussed that once my student loans are paid off, we will probably adjust that percentage based on our respective salaries.

   6. I can’t speak to combining, and I don’t think I ever would except a joint account for bills and joint savings. However, in law school (so, basically unemployed), my SO at the time and I moved in together and split almost everything or went one-for-one. It was very important to me that half of everything was mine. That may be the wrong idea for a relationship, but I never wanted to feel like he was my checkbook to live. In my current, more casual relationship, we normally go one-for-one on dates or drinks, and try to split groceries when we’re cooking together or spending a weekend. You’re writing this post, so it must bother you a bit, no? Not to overstep my boundaries. Or someone in your life said it wasn’t normal. No one knows your relationship as well as you do. So long as you have an understanding and he’s grateful, spend all you want. But if he truly isn’t in a place to be splitting things that YOU suggest, then yes, that can be on you. However, if you see this going long term, you need to be able to talk about money. Suggest that you want to start watching things to save more, and maybe if you both want to do XYZ or he suggests something, you could split it or do 70/30.

      1. We have only been dating 6 months, but I’m fairly confident that he is the one. We are in our mid-30s and have already started discussing moving in together in the next 3-5 months, with the idea that we would get engaged shortly thereafter and married about a year after. I think the question is coming because someone in my friend group, who I’m not close with, likes to make little digs about the fact that it’s pretty clear I’ll likely always make more than him and one of his roommates likes to joke that I’m his sugar mamma. Honestly, I’ve never been looking for someone to support me and he does all the things I care about/has the qualities I want in a life partner so I don’t care about that.

         If it is coming from anywhere internal, it is because I’m saving slightly less than I normally do and worry that I may regret that if we breakup given that I’m such a financially conservative person. But I will be so surprised and hurt if we break up, that’s likely to be the last thing on my mind.

   7. We currently split all the basic stuff 50-50 and I pay for the bougie lifestyle upgrades. It’s NBD, and likely to reverse when I retire and he continues to work.

   8. How long have you been together? Are you pretty sure you are getting married or are otherwise long term?
      This isn’t legal advice, but pre-marriage with my then very long term boyfriend we eventually set up a system where every paycheck we both got the same amount of pre-agreed upon money as “spending money” and the rest from each paycheck goes into savings of some sort. We still do this, married with kids. That way no one feels like they have less spending money than the other & the resentment that comes from it, we can both do our dumb things with our own spending money that we want to do without asking for permission or feeling judged, and whoever makes more is really just putting more money into savings than the other, rather than feeling like they are funding the other’s immediate lifestyle, which may or may not bother that person. Hopefully not. If we go out to dinner together or something equally discretionary, we put it on a joint credit card that gets paid equally from each of our spending money, and we each have our own credit card that the other really has nothing to do with.
      Admittedly it does take us a bit of a complicated spreadsheet to figure this all out when you have more non-discretionary joint costs like mortgages and any child care costs etc.

   9. I’m the person from this morning. BF and I are in a similar position- we haven’t moved in together but he’s spending a lot of time at my place. Until we officially move in together, my view is that he’s my guest and I’m ok paying for most stuff like groceries and takeout. He pays for takeout if it’s his turn to cook and he doesn’t feel like it. He also buys almost all of the booze. When covid first started, I bought what I thought was a lot of beer – 2 six packs. A six pack will last me a month so I figured two would last both of us a month. That proved to be inaccurate. Which is fine! Nothing wrong with having a beer after work each evening. But yeah he can buy the alcohol if he wants to drink frequently, and I don’t feel bad about having a beer here and there. He also buys his own soda and snacks I don’t eat.

      It would be different if we were living together, though. I own my house, and I’ve always thought that a fair way to split the cost of housing/utilities would be market value for renting a room. I’d also take turns paying for groceries.

   10. We keep our finances completely separate, for complicated family drama reasons involving living in PA (worst filial responsibility state) and my in-laws refusing to do estate planning like responsible adults. We each contribute a set amount to a third account that I use to pay all our bills.

   11. We combine by % of income. Example: Monthly bills + bit of cushion = 900. DH makes double my salary. I put 300 into joint account. He puts 600. Anything non-routine that requires extra contribution, we discuss.I like having money I can spend not be accountable to anyone for.

6. Love everything about that pic – the wallpaper, the chair, the table, the plants.

   Any best tips/practices for calling references on a potential hire? I don’t want to waste any of their time and would like to keep it to just a few useful questions. After a string of poor hires for an office coordinator, really trying to hire better this time.

   1. This may not be allowed (I know things are different in academia) but I think through what I really need to know from them – both in general from references and specifically about that person. I send the reference the job description and the questions, then set up an appointment to talk. That way, they know in advance what I’m looking for.

   2. What made the previous hires poor hires?

      1. This is really important to think about. If, say, your previous hires struggled with follow-through, you could ask a reference how the potential hire showed persistence and met deadlines.

         Overall, make sure your questions are tailored to both the job needs and what you need to know about the hire. And document the calls, because I imagine your HR wants that.

      2. We’re a small company and the position is a very needed split off of what I do. So we’re creating the position, and we keep refining with each person. I think the last thing was that we have been giving too much responsibility too early on and too many tasks; perhaps expecting too much too soon with not enough training. I was the third full time employee and first office worker (10 years ago), so didn’t have formal one-on-one training, and I know I struggle to give it now.

         I restructured the position this time – we were trying to separate “small projects” from “big projects” – now we’re separating parts of the process instead. So I’ll take the whole front part of the process and the new hire will take the end of it. This will help us work together a lot more, rather than the new person just working off on their own on their own projects which was a lot harder to give guidance on. Previous hires have lacked the technical knowledge and lack of following established systems that help keep all the technical details straight when you don’t know all the things. I definitely don’t expect someone who knows all the things – if they keep meticulous records and can refer back to them often.

         There were some other reasons, but those are my stream of consciousness of what’s in our ability to control/change.

         1. Your hiring process is breaking down somewhere. Look at each element: job description, targeting potential hires, assessing the resumes, interviews, and then calling references. If you want people who fulfill “office coordinator” but have certain technical skills, consider whether or not you need to change the title to better attract the kind of candidate you want, do outreach to less traditional candidates (ex., very smart women who are coming back into the workforce after a hiatus – they may be very trainable and systematic, which is what you’re looking for), or really get creative (e.g., solicit resumes from your local college’s Latin department). Consider asking one of the local, high-quality (not administrative) temp agencies to do the searching for you.

            Onto references: ask about how they do with checklists, following and completing complex tasks, organisational skills, etc.

         2. It sounds like you don’t know what exactly it is that you’re looking for when you hire somebody. You’ve got to work on that internally first, otherwise nobody will ever be able to meet your nebulous expectations.

         3. I’m seeing a mismatch in your job title and then in what you just wrote about the job. I would think the job of “office coordinator” would attract people who are good at office procedures, getting things set up, keeping them running, following a process, etc.

            But from your description, it sounds like you’re looking for the kind of person who takes ownership, can run with things, understands the big picture, works well in a start-up, has a lot of personal initiative, etc. Or at least in the past, you’ve expected the job to be that kind of person.

            Are you SURE you want an “office coordinator”? Or are you looking for a versatile team member who can create his or her own role within a growing organization?

         4. I don’t have any constructive feedback for you, but what you’re describing does not sound like an office coordinator, it sounds like a project manager. Are those interchangeable, in your field?

         5. Do you have someone in the position currently? It just feels like you’re purposefully being a little obtuse about it rather than more upfront.

         6. Office coordinator, technical expertise, front end, back end…it’s tough to give advice when it feels you aren’t being forthcoming for some reason.

         7. I agree with the others that the role does not sound like an office coordinator and more like a project manager with technical background, in which case you probably need to change the job title (and corresponding salary and benefits) to attract the talents you need for the role. You won’t get what you need if you don’t know what you need, and a boss that doesn’t know what they want is a huge red flag for hires.

   3. I once got the advice to ask early in a call about the employee’s “shining moment.” Give the reference a chance to really praise them for something well done. The story itself will be informative, but also, this advisor felt that it made the reference more comfortable talking about their weak points after.

   4. I feel like references are kind of worthless–anyone can get someone to say anything and some companies only allow you to confirm dates of employment. You may get the lucky break of someone who is willing to opine on the person’s strengths. If you get this, I’d try to ask as many specifics about projects as you can (to do a gut check if it’s real).

      I think the far more important thing is focusing on “tell me about a time when” instances during the actual interview. And if you can give a sample test of similar skills even better (marketer mock up a marketing plan or assess creative, analyst who needs software experience have them prove they can work with the data sheets, etc.

   5. I ask:
      – tell me about the person. this usually gets me 90% of the way there!
      – [job-specific skills questions]
      – would you hire them again?
      – anything else I should know that I haven’t asked?

      Obviously some references just tell you what you want to hear. But *getting them on the phone* is key. Written feedback is always completely positive.

   6. Do you have someone in the position currently?

7. Wallpaper stresses me out. Such a cluttered look. Crazy patterns like this are even worse.

   1. I like some wallpaper, but this is way too much even for a powder room. Both the color and pattern are very, very busy.

      1. Yes, I could see this for a statement wall but it would be a lot for a whole room.

      2. It comes in a scarf :)

8. Genuine question regarding COVID death rate: there are posters who keep referring to the death rate of COVID as 1%. Every source I see shows a death rate of about 5-6% of confirmed cases. Currently, the Johns Hopkins tracker says there are 438k worldwide deaths and 8.1 million confirmed cases, which is about 5.4%. Using these statistics, there would have to be more than 43 million cases to represent a 1% death rate, or the actual number of worldwide deaths would have to be overstated by a multiple of five. Are there reputable sources for the 1% number that I’m missing somewhere?

   1. And just to add — I realize that the number of *confirmed* cases is much lower than the total actual cases. However, a ratio of five actual cases to one confirmed case still seems too high, especially given the ramp-up of testing in the US.

      1. Counterpoint – I saw an article today that said to assume 8.5 untested cases for every 1 confirmed case.

      2. Definitely not too high. Plenty of experts think it’s up 20 unconfirmed cases for every confirmed case. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/21/coronavirus-cases-are-likely-10-to-20-times-higher-in-us-than-reported-former-fda-chief-gottlieb-says.html

   2. I think the 1% number is from Italy where there was such widespread community spread that they were able to test a widely representative section of the population that had it.

      The worldwide number is not helpful– many countries have older or younger demographics than the U.S. (and less high risk citizens). Likewise, adequate access to medical care is a big factor in the mortality rate.

      In the U.S., a large portion of cases have been concentrated in vulnerable populations like persons in nursing homes, who have a much higher fatality rate than the population as a whole. In addition, we have had terrible testing, so many people have not been tested unless they were so sick they needed to be hospitalized, meaning those that have been tested are already at risk for a worse outcome. Basically, all of our data is skewed.

      1. I think that this is why the fatality rate will ultimately be quite low — not that it isn’t deadly (it clearly IS) but that so dang many people will have had it and not died (that that is necessarily an easy road to go down).

         FWIW, I have seen math indicating .5% fatality rate by doing division on the CDC site (total infected / total deaths).

         1. +1 I think the fatality rate is quite low. That doesn’t mean that this isn’t still very scary in that even with a low fatality rate it’s still much more deadly than the flu and spreads a lot lot easier.

   3. I posted on the previous thread, but this: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01738-2 says between 0.5%-1%. Note that even 0.5% is many times deadlier than flu (~0.1%) and would result in the deaths of millions of Americans if we take the herd immunity approach. But it is still a true statement that 99% of people will survive this.
      There is a difference between case fatality rate (percent of people with a confirmed diagnosis who die) and infection fatality rate (percent of people who get sick who will die). Many people have it without ever getting an official diagnosis. I have seen multiple experts estimating 10-20 unconfirmed case for every confirmed case in the US based on antibody test results, which roughly tracks with the 0.5-1% IFR.

      1. *”infection fatality rate (percent of people who get sick who will die)” should really say percent of people who get INFECTED who will die since you can get infected without being clinically sick.

      2. I also posted on the morning thread – forgive me if you already saw these – but here are the couple of sources that I could get an actual number out of that were *somewhat* recent:
         https://www.washington.edu/news/2020/05/18/covid-19-uw-study-reports-staggering-death-rate-in-us-among-those-infected-who-show-symptoms/
         https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/health/cdc-coronavirus-estimates-symptoms-deaths/index.html

         Clearly they could be (and likely are to some degree) wrong. I saw the Johns Hopkins study too but I don’t think it takes the extra step of estimating the number of unconfirmed cases, as noted.

   4. The data from South Korea is probably a good resource since they have had widespread testing and contact tracing from the start and were able to suss out a lot of asymptomatic cases. The hospitals were mosty not overwhelmed for the large part. The Korean CDC has published daily updates on total cases, serious cases, and deaths since February — as of yesterday it was 279 total deaths / 12,198 total cases, at a 2.29% death rate.

9. I worked 80 hour weeks from mid-March to late May. Then the calls dropped off. I have a ton of less-urgent work to do but I’ve had a hard time getting motivated. I’m struck with how sad it is that the pandemic happened, human loss, etc., but also I’m just …tired. My skin is breaking out, I don’t want to sit and slog through drafts. I’m still putting out fires and getting people answers to urgent things, but I probably should’ve just taken vacation instead of being chained to my desk but not getting stuff done.

   Any suggestions for how to ‘snap out of it’? I could take a couple days worth of vacation and consider June hours just a lost cause. No mental health issues but definitely starting to feel the stress most of my friends had in March/April. Although I understand why and am complying, I’m also chafing a bit at lockdown.

   1. Take the vacation time. Where are you still fully locked down?

      1. I’m in a “hotspot” county in the Midwest. Thousands of cases and while businesses are allowed to remain open, most are closing or still working remote. I’ve been WFH since early March.

         1. Can you take a few vacation days to unplug, even if you’re still at home? I have taken PTO days during the pandemic and find it very healing, even if I’m just putzing around the house, doing projects, or binging shows.

         2. I took a PTO day in mid-April to reset my brain. I’d been reading every horror story about quarantine, and it just overwhelmed my ability to cope. I spent the day reading and cuddling with our cat.

            My employer is a health system. All of leadership, from the President/CEO down to the frontline supervisors, keeping talking about how we can’t take care of our patients if we don’t take care of ourselves and each other. They are strongly encouraging employees to take PTO, to help with the stress and prevent burnout. This is a marathon, not a sprint, and they want us to be there with them at the other side.

      2. Portland OR still fully locked down too.

   2. No advice but commiseration. I have also been working insane hours that have just started dropping off and now I’m having the hardest time motivating myself to get to the less urgent work that got put on the back burner. I’ve taken a few days off here and there but nothing has felt truly restorative to get me to snap out of it. At this point I’m just waiting for the stuff I’ve been putting off to become more urgent (because of my delays) so that I can finally motivate myself to do it. Not great. If you find something that helps, please post again. I’m right there with you.

10. I’m looking for a laptop bag for my husband for a gift. Any recommendations? I like the look of brown leather messenger bags but I can’t find one I love.

    1. Make sure he actually wants leather because it’s much heavier than fabric bags. But if he wants brown leather, have you seen the LLBean Signature bag?

    2. I liked the Poppy Barley backpack. But it was too big for me.

11. If you’re doing the blackout-publishing thing Kat posted about on FB (where you buy 2 books by black authors this week in hopes of flooding the bestsellers lists) where are you making your purchase? I was going to do bookshop.org but I wasn’t sure if that’s part of the bestsellers list calculations.

    1. My local bookstore is where I order any new books

    2. semicolon in Chicago is on bookshop . org and is a black woman-owned business. If you start at their website I believe they get some level of credit, even if the books come from somewhere else?

12. How do I know if my wide-leg pants are the right width? I am 5’5, size 2, and bought an inexpensive pair of wide leg pants on a dept. store COVID sale. I love the waist and length, but I think they’re…too wide. Maybe this is from years of straight leg pants and seeing jeggings, though. I Googled but only found different photos. Any suggestions so I can direct a tailor?

13. Update about my daughter. I posted that her two best friends were bullying her about a week ago.

    They’re first year college students. I realize my daughter is legally an adult so it’s her battle, but the bullying has escalated to social media vagueposting (when it is clearly my daughter they’re talking about) about what a piece of sh1t she is, and now they’re demanding she meet them. This is all after my daughter sent a final text that said “I’m done. Please stop contacting me.”

    It’s especially tough because her other friends are all on lockdown or are far away and can’t see her physically, so her entire friend world is a screen at this point. I’m her entire in person support network at this point. She’s not sleeping well and is really worried about escalation. Today they texted her to demand that she meet them at a park near our house. She said “why would I walk into that situation ?” And I agree with her.

    We’ve been reading a lot about bullies and narcissists (one friend is a narcissist in spades) and how the best way to deal with them is to not give them any attention. But of course it’s really difficult not to want to defend yourself and I understand that.

    I don’t know what my question is – any further tips on supporting her? The ice cream suggestion one of you gave previously has been the best to far! (Props to So Good vegan ice creams)

    1. My daughter has aspergers and has been relentlessly bullied at school, initially by just one girl, but it has caught on as something allowable by many in their grade. My daughter is a good kid and doesn’t want to get anyone in trouble. I asked her, and this seemed to resonate, what she would do if the mean girl or others picked on a different kid? What would you say to that kid? How would you help that kid? That encouraged her to stick up for herself — some day she might need to help someone else. Someone who has more scared and might be hit or worse.

       “This isn’t how friends treat each other.”
       “Life is too short to give people who treat you wrong any more time and bandwidth.”

       And, ultimately, The Gift of Fear — she should know that she absolutely 100% has every right to ghost these people and not look back. And it is what she ought to do. Too often we tell girls to be good, to be nice, and to get along and not cause a stir. This is when it is OK to ghost and to forget your manners; manners aren’t for people like this and are how people like this trick us into exposing ourselves to abuse.

    2. Omg wtf is wrong with your daughter’s “friends”? Where did she even meet these bullies?? They sound really deluded.

    3. Block them everywhere so they cannot text her or contact her on social media. Once they realize they cannot get a reaction out of her they will quit. I’m sorry for your daughter. That is tough. I would just continue to be there for her. Let her talk if she wants or just hang out and not talk about it too. Maybe find a funny movie to watch or youtube videos of funny animals always get my kids laughing. She’ll realize they aren’t real friends and that it is their loss, not hers.

       1. +1
          Also, sorry if this doesn’t help, but from one anonymous internet poster to another for her: college is such an ever evolving place where you change and the people you come into contact change so much in such a short time period. I can think of quite a few people that I was “friends” with freshman year that I virtually never saw again b/c our circumstances/living situations changed, studies got more focused (and therefore you start seeing the same focused study people etc.). And these were all even lovely people. But I still left college with other life long friends I met throughout the years. Just in case she is feeling devastated and thinking that this is it for college friendships.

          1. So true.

          2. +1

       2. Yes, this.
          Narcissists thrive on energy being given back to them, it can be positive or negative. Once the energy flow to them stops they lose interest in their target very rapidly and move on to another target. Engaging with a narcissist just provides them fuel; the only way out is to completely disengage. The more your daughter continues to react in any way – even a very small way – the more she’s fueling the narcissistic rage and the outcomes for that are never good. I don’t want to alarm you or sound alarmist but some confrontations with narcissists result in people being physically harmed.
          Just want to share, I was in a situation similar to this in college (I posted about it on one of your previous posts) and actually went to the set-up confrontation with the friends I was trying to disconnect from. It was every bit as awful as you could contemplate and, of course, solved nothing. Your daughter absolutely should not go to meet these people (they aren’t her friends). Blocking is the best option at this point. I am really sorry this is continuing. What a ridiculous mess.

    4. Unfriend, block. These are not friends.

    5. This is absolutely insane. How are these people still communicating with her? She needs to block them on her phone and on social media. If I were her parent, I’d be encouraging her to delete all social media apps and possibly even delete her accounts. How are other members of the friend group reacting?

    6. She needs to block them. How are they even managing to contact her?

    7. Can she do virtual volunteering to get her connected with people who care about something that she cares about too?

    8. I think she’s decided to go “no contact” or “grey rock” with those people, which sounds like a healthy choice. The beauty of making that decision is that you can disengage with those people & you don’t need to worry about interacting with them anymore — you can read about no contact/grey rock for a few key strategies or benign comments your daughter can make if faced with them again. But she can let go and not focus her energy on them anymore.

       Maybe it’s time to step away from studying them/narcissism/bullying and focus instead on doing things she enjoys independently, meeting new people, or getting to know acquaintances a little better. This friend group should not be so consuming — like you put on your professional demeanor to go to work on a bad day, she can put the drama in a compartment and chat with her cousin on Facebook about cat memes for a little while or something. Take a vacation from this problem as it is no longer urgent & we need time to gain perspective (focusing on it because we want to learn all about it or make the right decision seems logical, but ideas also need time to process and develop.)

       She could also journal to explore her ideas/arguments/stances to work things out on paper and gain confidence the ideas and actions she wants to espouse in the future — looking forward in a way that’s not about the bullies but about herself.

    9. She can block their numbers from her phone, block them on social media, block them everywhere. They will de-escalate out of lack of anything better to do, and if they do escalate, she can start to look at legal remedies.

       The subtweeting (really, that’s what it is) is annoying and awful. Best thing to do is to block them so she doesn’t have to see it. They are trying to hurt her and cannot hurt her if she does not see it.

       I’m not saying that this is easy, but it’s simple. I’ve done this with “friends” who treated me like dirt, family members who were basically unhinged, friends of friends who pick fights or talk trash about me, ex-boyfriends who wouldn’t go away. Block, block, block, block.

    10. Block them everywhere and unfollow. Focus on connecting with local groups that share her interests. Local art studio that’s restarting distanced classes? Local trail running group? Local yoga studio? Don’t just delete them – add stuff back in to fill the space they vacate.

    11. Block and unfollow. These are not people she should be interacting with at all.

    12. I’d be considering reporting this to the police at this point. They sound threatening. I’d definitely block them on social media.

    13. This might be an unpopular opinion, but honestly she might feel a little better being mean back to them. So if she wants to tell them to go %#*! themselves before blocking them, let her do it. But then definitely block them, because they sound terrible. (I know that I tend to have a temper though! I wouldn’t start a fight, but if you start one with me, I will escalate it to the ends of the earth and you will have to die mad about it, so YMMV.)

        1. But these girls sound like the type that will manipulate that and post it all over social media to make you look like the @sshole/beatch. I really would not go down that path here. These girls are not mentally well.

    14. These are not her friends. These are deprived individuals with nothing better to do then to endlessly dig in the most interesting thing for them.
        She should block them on every possible level – social media, phone, emails, in person.
        I would consider sending them email which clearly states that she is not going to engage with them and kindly remind them to respect her privacy, rights and boundaries and not to harass her.
        If they continue, I would report them to college and also police (so that there is a written record).
        I agree she should move on, focus on herself and do what she enjoys, expand her network and potentially consult a psychologist or a counselor to give her objective view (I expect there are some free resources/helplines).

        1. +1 on reporting to college and campus police

           1. I think this is a great idea to report to campus police and administration even. I would save copies or screenshots of examples of what they have sent so that you can show them as proof.

              1. Yes, save all copies with phone numbers/names visible

        2. Agree that she should report to the school and block these people.

14. Does anyone have any experience/advice on how to support a parent going through cancer treatment?

    My mom was diagnosed with chronic lymphocytic leukemia last year; this March she had to start 2 day chemo treatments, every 28 days. She’s halfway through treatment with another 3 sessions to go, and she really needs help at home for a few days after her treatment when her symptoms kick in. I’m not local to provide care (we live a 2hr flight away); my brothers live about an hour away but in a COVID hotspot so my mom doesn’t want them to come help her, which I understand. On the days when she’s really sick, she needs someone to make her meals/encourage her to eat & drink a bit, make sure she’s comfy, but no actual nursing care. I looked online at a few home health aide agencies in her area but they seem more geared towards seniors; my mom is in her late 50’s. Should I call these home health agencies anyway? I’m thinking about flying out for her next treatment but my husband is nervous about the COVID risk with the travel, and traveling to a location with many more cases than where we live. What else can I do for her?

    1. I’m sorry she and you are going through this. I don’t have a lot of personal experience, but have always thought home health aides were for sick people as much as seniors, so I wouldn’t let your mom’s age stop you from contacting them. If you live a 2 hour flight, I’m guessing that’s a ~12 hour drive? Could you drive straight through in one day without stopping except for gas and takeout food? From a COVID perspective, I think that would be considerably safer than flying. Do her doctors have any advice about how she could get help that would be relatively safe, COVID-wise?

    2. Sorry to hear about your mom. I think you should call the home health agencies anyway.
       They’d probably be delighted to have a patient like your mom. Honestly you should not fly to visit her not because of your COVID risk, but because her immune system is probably pretty terrible right now. My mom battled with neutropenia on and off throughout her chemo, she was actually hospitalized one of the times from an ingrown hair – any health problem can turn very serious.

       If you can figure out what she’ll eat, maybe you can arrange for delivery or have someone you know nearby cook for her from scratch. Lemon flavored things are often recommended, or plain chicken soup. I think the ACA puts out a recipe book. My mom really liked beauty products, especially unscented lotions, aquaphor, chapstick, eye drops, biotene, drip drop, cozy socks. Some of the classes like Look Good Feel Better might have online workshops if she’s interested.

       1. I was just thinking last night that I wanted to put together a care package for her, thank you for the suggestions!

    3. Home health aides market to the elderly but provide care to all ages- definitely contact!!

    4. Given her fragile health, I’d be nervous about having anyone in close proximity due to COVID risk whether that’s you on a plane or a home health nurse that has been in a bunch of other folks’ homes. Since there isn’t true nursing care needed but just meal prep, can you set her up with take out, help have heat and eat meals ready to go, etc. Get a mini fridge with beverages and healthy snacks in the bedroom so she doesn’t have to make as much effort to get around. Maybe a microwave, too. It’s not the same, but setting up to help meet my core needs this way helped me do a bunch better after surgery once when I thought I’d kill my parents if either stayed one minute longer during recovery. If you do need to head out there, I’d drive rather than fly. Far fewer people you’ll come face to face with. If it is a long trip, it seems like hotels are getting better about processes for spacing bookings, etc. now. Surface risk isn’t what people once thought, so again you’re lower than if you’re face to face on a plane and in an airport. I don’t know how remote friendly your work is or if you have an immediate family to care for. But if you are solo and flexible or one of your brothers is, maybe rent an air b and b nearby for the next 12 weeks (or 8 weeks or 4 weeks depending on how much you think you’re needed)…? One of them coming from a hot spot outright (no air b and b) is still probably less of a risk than a healthcare provider who does home care for a bunch of different people.

    5. I have a lymphoma that is treated similarly to CLL and I’m 60. My daughter was a home health aide while in nursing school. We also recently supervised caregivers for 2 years for my father in law. So I have some experience. I would look for a local agency and try to get someone who is a decent cook and who can be a repeat caregiver so a relationship develops. My daughter loved cooking for her clients, many of whom were not that old. She would also load dishwashers and do laundry, which are helpful if you’re sick.

       You could also have meals made and delivered if you can find a local person that does that.

       Good luck to your mom.

       1. Thank you for the suggestion, I like the idea of her developing a relationship with someone. And good luck with your recovery!

          1. Thank you!

    6. You’ve gotten some great advice here including home health. I’m going through chemo. My sister is my life saver over the phone. She checks on me every morning. Chemo is such a tough poison on your body and it does mess w your brain. There are times I have shared with her how incredibly sick I feel and she will gently ask some basic questions about when’s the last time I took my anti nausea medication. She’s also very good at helping me think about what to do about side effects. From G.I. meds to mint gum, my sister has come up with some great ideas She has left food at my door (she lives an hour away). She has also had local food delivered. She had my meds and other needed things delivered from CVS. Her genuine and consistent care has made a huge difference

       Wishing you and your mom all the best! xo

       1. What you described is what I’ve been doing with my mom – we Facetime multiple times a day, I try to get her to take her meds, eat or drink a little bit, have some tea, etc.

          Everyone has given such great ideas of other things I can do – I’m going to set my mom up with some food deliveries and send her a care package as well.

          Wishing you the best through the rest of your treatment.

    7. Why are you a 2 hr flight away? She needs you. I’m from a culture where children help their parents.

15. Just ran into a work friend at the grocery store. He couldn’t believe that the grocery stores are the only places I’ve been to throughout the past few months. He was wearing a mask, but seemed completely shocked and said he’d been “all over,” then named retail stores and restaurants that I didn’t even realize were open. He then said that I needed to “live my life.” I was caught off guard and didn’t really give a great response, but the truth is that I’m not comfortable going anywhere that isn’t really necessary. I feel like I’m in the twilight zone. Has anyone else had interactions like this?

    1. I have made no trips but the grocery store. Haven’t had my hair done. And am going to a backyard gathering tomorrow with 9 folks from work. My first official social outing. A colleague who lives down the street offered to drive together. I’m like, um, what?!? I’m even nervous about being outside and having someone come in my 6 feet. I mean, like her a ton, but no way am I hopping in her car. Another coworker has her kid in day care even though we’re still WFH (as is her husband) with totally flexible hours and we’re in a hotspot. And another was saying the other day how great it was to get her manis again. Feels like weirdly unnecessary risk to me.

       1. Childcare is necessary even when you’re WFH. You can not meaningfully work with a daycare age child present unless you have another adult there to care for them. It’s not equivalent to wanting a manicure.

    2. He sounds condescending. Who asked him what you “need to” do? Is he looking for commands from you?

       1. ^This +1

    3. Yeah, I have some co-workers who are just like “well, I already didn’t take public transportation, so I didn’t need to change my life at all.” It makes me feel like I’m living in a different reality than they are, but at the same time, my college roommate who’s now a doctor is texting me multiple times a week with messages that basically boil down to “please be as careful as you possibly can, don’t do anything you don’t really need to do in public” and I trust her opinion on this a lot more than I do theirs.

16. Because I’m bored and so basic IRL, I am wondering what I would look like if I didn’t have my life. Is there somewhere on the interwebs I could send a pic of myself to and have them photoshop that into a Kardashian version, a Burning man version, a coachella version, a winter in Aspen version, a glam version (like Lana Del Ray), and a vintage Hollywood cool Hitchcock version of me? I know what I used to look like in a suit (and now I WFH mainly).

    I have a monumental birthday coming up and this would amuse me. I can’t think of anything else.

    Also, if you are into silent horror in picture books, The Comisar Vanishes is excellent. It’s a book of Stalin-era pictures of USSR leaders but after ever purge some dude is replaced with a tree (but his shadow remains). It is about the creepiest thing I own and it is real.

    1. There are Photoshop Fairy groups on Facebook where all kinds of people will do any edit you want for a nominal Paypal fee (like around $5 or less). I used one to do some faceswaps to get a large family picture where everyone’s eyes were open.

       You can request to join one of those groups, and then post a pic asking for “funny edits” and give some of the examples you gave here. The creativity is pretty stunning (and also super eye opening – I use it to teach my kids not to trust everything they see).

Comments are closed.