Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Jacquard Print Skirt

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

black-jacquard-skirtHappy Friday! Jacquard isn’t always right for the office, but this pretty $39 skirt from the Carine Roitfeld collection with Uniqlo looks pretty great. I like the way they’ve styled it here with textured tights — it’s a very subtle way of mixing prints — but of course you could tone it down with plain black tights or hose.  Carine Jacquard Print Skirt

Looking for something even more affordable? This black flippy skirt is only $25, and this textured plus-size skirt looks great.

Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail [email protected]



  1. Where have you gone, EPA? :

    Morning all! Thanks everyone who responded yesterday with suggestions about how to get support environmental concerns. There were so many good ideas, and I’m looking forwards to getting started.

    I also wanted to say that there’s a lot of talk that Hillary didn’t pass the “beer test”. All I know is I’d consider it a great privilege to do shots (shots.shots.shots) with that lady.

  2. Nervous flyer update :

    Hi, I wanted to thank everyone who responded to my note a few weeks back about my growing anxiety about flying.

    My doctor gave me a prescription for Xanax. I used it this week for the first time on a business trip. It worked great. One segment was especially bumpy and it did not bother me at all.

    I flew on election day, so it probably helped to have it in my system for that (and kept me from having anything to drink).

    • Xanax for flying is the greatest. Now when I have it with me, I rarely need it and take it only if I need to sleep or if I expect a bumpy flight. Now that I don’t associate flying with extreme stress, I don’t need to rely on the meds as much.

  3. So, I’ve been doing some thinking about my own blind spots. And the way I treat other people, the way I jump to conclusions about other people, and the way I have been snobby and disdainful of the way other people live their lives (and y’all, I live in the south. It’s not like I have an excuse like I’ve never met a person from the middle of the country). It’s been kind of eye opening and I think I need to do better. I was reading an article written by someone on the “other side” that included a paragraph about being mocked by snobs for eating at Applebees and shopping at Walmart. And it made me feel like a real jackass because I am that snob. Anyone else started thinking about this stuff? Like we can’t start to get on the same page if we are too busy being rude to each other. I’m not talking about playing nice with neo-nazis, I’m talking about playing nice with reasonable people who have different opinions and concerns than I do. This was another good article from cracked partly on that topic:

    • +10000000 I have been doing soul-searching too. We tell everyone that name-calling and stereotyping are not the way to achieve harmony. But it’s okay for us to do it – “backwards”, “hicks”, “hillbillies”, “ignorant”, “uneducated”…this rhetoric, as we preach, is not helpful. I’m an American woman of South Asian heritage, but I find myself falling into the “white man’s burden” of “needing to educate the masses”. This has been quite the week to check my own privilege I have given myself as a member of the upper-middle class.

      • Baconpancakes :

        It’s worth noting that “ignorant” and “uneducated” aren’t really insults – they’re realities.

        • Yes, they are. Because “ignorant” is in the eye of the beholder, and it usually means someone who disagrees with you.

          • Nope, ignorant is all of my friends who don’t understand why NATO is important, why 35% tariffs will destroy the economy, who “refuse to believe” that President Obama deported 12.5 million people, and that all Muslims hate America.

        • And uneducated is only said about people who disagree with you. Plenty of uneducated people vote on both sides.

          • +1000

          • AnoninFlorida :

            Speaking as an educator, I strongly disagree. If someone is not functionally literate and numerate then they are uneducated. Regrettably, this is true of many people, and those who cannot calculate a tip are always going to struggle to understand how a tax plan will impact the deficit or how tariffs will change trade patterns. If someone is unable to construct a comprehensible sentence then they are uneducated. This is all too common amongst university students of all political persuasions, but when young people see someone with poor command of vocabulary and grammar become President then they are less inclined to learn how to communicate well. If someone believes a lot of false information (e.g. that climate change is a hoax developed by the Chinese) and does not know how to find accurate information then they are uneducated. Again, this is common, but the embrace of false information by the Republican Party makes the problem more widespread on the right.

            Teachers and university faculty across the US express frustration every day about how trends like growing class sizes, funding cuts and misguided policies (e.g. No Child Left Behind) have created an inadequate education system. If we identify lack of education as a problem then we can work on fixing it, e.g. by doing a better job of teaching math so that the US doesn’t score so poorly in math compared to other countries. Lack of education is not a myth or in the eye of the beholder. It is simply a reality that inadequate education makes it difficult for people to make good decisions about complex issues, whether that is their own financial future (is this mortgage affordable? what pension should I get?) or the future of the country.

            In short, if you think that “uneducated is only said about people who disagree with you” then try talking to some teachers and they will set you straight!

      • Anonymoose :

        As long as my husband’s family members insist upon using the “N” word and the “K” word in front of me and my mixed race Jewish son, I reserve my rights to use the words I choose in direct response. Fifteen-plus years of polite requests to consider their language has not worked on any level and now I am going to be direct.

        People who want to have reasonable conversations are welcome to, but I am done with putting up with or placating prejudice simply because it is uncomfortable for others to be confronted with it.

        • Anon in Blue state :

          To anonymouse – I can’t believe that you (and your husband) put up with even a month of being called the “N” word (or the “K” word – what is that even, a Jewish slur that I thought went out 50 years ago). No that is not acceptable. I wouldn’t put up with such demonstrations of prejudice in my presence. Ever. Yes, I’m a white, educated Trump voter. Not uneducated. Not ignorant. And certainly someone who has never once used the “N” word.

        • Anonymous :

          Yea, why are you still spending time with them??

    • Anonymous :

      I don’t know. I’m kind of sick of the argument that us liberal elites are in a bubble. I grew up in the Midwest. There are many people in rural America that have never met a Black person, a Jewish person, an Asian person, a gay person. That have never been out of the United States or even on an airplane. That have families that have lived in the same zip codes for seven generations and those zip codes are almost 100% white and Christian. There are entire high school graduating classes where not one student has a working mother. That, my friends, is a bubble. They’re not bad people, but there’s so much of the world they haven’t seen and they are fighting change, progress and diversity every step of the way. So, yeah, let’s try to be a little less snobby about people who eat at Applebee’s, but let’s also recognize that all these people who have never met anyone who doesn’t look, pray, love and talk exactly like them have at least as much work to do.
      This article about sums it up for me:

      • Anonymous :

        This. Exactly this.

      • Saying that it might be good to listen to the non-elite doesn’t mean that the non-elite don’t have work to do themselves. It’s not just one side- but the only thing you can control is your actions, not the actions of others. So sitting around saying ‘they’ should change (even if your point is valid!) won’t make people change- making them feel bad will only root them in their beliefs.

        • This. Both camps are living in a bubble, but you can only control yours (hopefully doing that will have ripple effects).

          I don’t know. Most of my family members are in the rural bubble and I grew up there myself, so I guess I feel like a bit of an ambassador between these two camps. The snottiness of my law school friends and liberal neighbors pisses me off, so does the small mindedness of my family and hometown friends. I used to think the population of people in the middle was larger but, this election and its aftermath has made clear that it is not. And that makes me sad.

          • Yeah, I am have been the two worlds person a lot of times…I’ve been the person explaining that homos*xuality has nothing to do with pedophilia in my conservative hometown,. I’ve also been the person explaining that, in fact (i) many “normal” people own guns, (ii) actually, lots of Christians believe in evolution, and (iii) yes, I as a southerner actually grew up with many close friends who were POC and Jewish. (My former MIL, from a lily-white Vermont town, exclaiming in surprise that “you know black people?’ was a pretty good demonstration of northern ignorance.)

      • Anonymous :

        So true. And they are in a bubble because they want to be. It’s comfortable there. They fought hard to keep black kids out of their schools. Their fight is to learn nothing, change nothing, experience nothing of the world, but also profit. Nope.

      • I agree, everyone needs to do better. But the only person I can control is myself. And I’m saying I want to do better. Someone has to do better first. Someone has to stick out the olive branch. Someone has to stop saying “yeah but” Might as well be me. I’m not going to change my values about things like feminism and equal rights, but keeping my eyes open, being kind rather than dismissive, and being willing to listen and acknowledge that their experience is valid too seems like a good place to start. That’s just me. You do you.

        • I think that’s a great attitude to have. Change has to start somewhere.

        • I agree, this is a great attitude. If liberal elites don’t want to be painted with the same broad brush, they should in turn not paint all rural folks with a broad brush. Different life experiences are different life experiences. Why SHOULD people in small towns have to want to travel internationally or eat food they think is weird? Why should we impose what we think is important on them? This goes the other way too, mind you. Just because I think XYZ is important to living a fulfilling life, doesn’t mean someone else has to. This is, of course, different than having different values, but the OP brought up the Applebees/Walmart judgment and so that is what I am talking about.

        • Frozen Peach :

          I’m with you too. It doesn’t have to be either/or. I can’t change them, I can change how I respond to them.

          I think that the website “People of Walmart” demonstrates exactly the attitude that got us to where we are.

          • I used to work with someone who told me that he and his wife took their kids to Wal-Mart to make fun of people. I, with what I thought was heavy sarcasm, replied, “Yes, poor people are SO funny.” He took what I said at face value and agreed with me.

        • Sydney Bristow :

          I agree with this too. I’m going to do my best to identify and deal with my own blind spots. I’m also going to continue making genuine offers for my family members who live in rural areas to come visit me in NYC so they can have new experiences as well and will be trying to visit them more often when I’m in my home state.

      • Blame it on the media and racially charged rhetoric (among other things). Rural America gets very, very afraid when you talk about “inner cities” being “war zones” as if we were in the 1970s. How do you convince them to broaden their world view and experience more of the world (even if just from their own home) if all that’s portrayed about cities is that they’re dangerous, disgusting places with no morals? That Cracked article someone posted yesterday explained that far better than I can.

      • nasty woman :


        Agree 100%. I read the rollcall article yesterday and thought it nailed it.

        In my view, rural people live in a bubble and don’t make an effort to get out of it. Obviously I’m wildly generalizing here, but they have never met a black person, Muslim, gay man, feminist, atheist, whatever, and yet feel free to call us immoral/evil/dangerous and advocate for laws that actively work against civil rights for these groups. Not acceptable to me. Maybe the “elites” haven’t met many rural people, but we’re also not actively discriminating against them, either. Further, all of the people who are now butthurt that some liberal who likes thai food is “mocking them” for eating in an applebee’s are the same people who mock liberals/”elites.” That doesn’t make any mocking right, but that rural conservatives are now pretending that everyone was just meeeeeeeeeeeeeeean to them for so many years without looking in the mirror blows my mind. Venture onto some right wing blogs if you don’t believe me. Example:

        Conservative reaction to black lives matter protests: Why are they whining? Slavery’s been over for hundreds of years! Be respectful to the police! He was just a black thug. Shouldn’t have moved his hand.

        I haven’t really heard many mainstream conservative outlets/conservative comments saying “oh wow, we obviously haven’t been listening, black people clearly have some legitimate grievances. I need to do better.”

        THAT SAID, I totally agree with CPA Lady that it is always a good practice to examine your own thought patterns and where you might have blindspots or bias. If everyone did better, everything would be better. I just reject the notion that Trump happened because liberals mocked People of Walmart.

        • Then you haven’t been listening. Look up Rick Perry’s speech on racism from this summer. Look at Tim Scott. I think Glenn Beck said something similar recently.

          Also, I don’t know anyone from any small town in the south who has never met a black person. That’s crazy talk. Maybe that applies to northern cities in Vermont and Connecticut, as discussed above, but no t in the south.

          • I live in Houston but have family that lives in West Texas. They may have seen a black person, they may have met a black person, but they don’t know any black people. They’ve never shared a meal with a black person. They’ve never laughed or cried with a black person.

            My freshman year at UT, I met a girl during orientation who confessed to me that she had never seen a black person outside of TV and movies and that she was surprised by how “normal” black people were compared to what she’d seen on TV.

            It’s not crazy talk. I’m not saying this is common or an epidemic, but it is reality for a lot of people in rural conservative white communities.

          • Yeah, West Texas is probably true. I am also a Houstonian, and from a small town in the hill country, and everyone there knows black people. In West Texas, there are like ten people in their towns. Ha.

          • The West Texas town I’m thinking of has over 2,000 people. 800 of which are Latino migrant workers. 0.60% of the population is black.

            As far as the hill country, I’m from New Braunfels, squarely in the center of San Antonio and Austin along I-35, and the population is 1.37% black.

            No, not “everyone knows black people.” And you’re obfuscating the point anyway, having seen or knowing the name of a black person is not the same as *knowing* a black person.

          • Take it even further – Muslims. In my small college, my roommate thought that Islam was a country, did not know that “Islams” did not celebrate Christmas, or really that there were even people that don’t celebrate Christmas (Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. etc. etc.), or that not everyone who is Muslim is a terrorist on the news, but actual classmates that are born in the US, too. There was just a lot of confusion about other religions in general or even other types of Christians.

            There is a lot of expectation that all minority groups should know everything about majority groups and virtually no effort to understand the other way, i.e. important holy days for other religions.

        • Orrr could we say that the media you watch doesn’t cover it??? THat’s VERY possible. The NYT wouldn’t be talking about conservatives talking about race unless they were forced to because it was huge news.

        • nasty woman :

          Wow, you think I haven’t been listening? Screw you. I never said that *no one* has responded with compassion. I said I’m not hearing a lot of it. It was an example to illustrate my larger point, which you didn’t address at all. You seriously expect me to believe that the majority of conservatives are taking the concerns of the BLM movement seriously? Hahahahah.

          And re; your second paragraph, anony, I said I’m obviously wildly generalizing. Reading comprehension, yes? Obviously I do not believe that every single rural person has never met a black person. And again, you didn’t actually address the point I was making.

          Also, I read as much or more media reflecting positions I generally disagree with that media I do.

          • You sound mad.

          • nasty woman :

            Yea, I am. Somehow I knew you’d respond with a post like that- you’re the type of person who will insult someone one, and then when they react, you pretend like the problem is with them. Charming.

          • Anon for this :

            She should be mad.

        • @ nasty women: How many rural people do you know?

          • nasty woman :

            @ anon at 12:17- A good number. And many conservative people, and I’ve lived in the south my whole life. Not that I need to justify myself to you.

            FFS people, I was generalizing (and acknowledged it) for the sake of brevity. I never ever said that no rural people know black/muslim/feminist/gay/whatever people. I’m seeing a lot of reading comprehension failures here. Using *context clues,* it is clear that I’m making a point about the specific dynamic and the highly specific issue being talked about here- whether “elites” are the ones “in the bubble” and whether they have made the effort/have had the opportunity to meet people of different beliefs and backgrounds as compared with whether “rural” people are in a bubble, and the perceptions of others that arise as a result of lack of exposure.

            I am agreeing that we should challenge the notion that “the elites” are in a bubble (and that this is the problem) because they don’t know many rural people but that rural people are not in a bubble… even though they, on the whole, may not know many people of various backgrounds and on the whole live in less diverse communities.

          • Anonymous :

            Both groups are in bubbles! Is that up for debate?

      • I remember my freshman college roommate wanted to pat my head to see where the horns were since I was the first Jew she’d ever met. She wasn’t mean about it at all. She had just been told her entire life that Jews had horns and now that she had a real live Jew in front of her, she was curious. (Joke’s on her! They’re retractable.)

        This woman did a better job than I have ever seen anyone else do of using college to get out of her bubble. She made a few awkward moves like this one, but in each case she worked hard to take what she had learned as a kid and see how it held up in the outside world. She was gracious and good humored. She now works in public health in an inner city half way across the country from where she grew up and I am really glad that someone in our college’s residential services office thought it would be funny to put a then-super conservative farm girl in a room with a liberal Boston Jew.

        • Anonymous :

          Awesome. Are you two still friends?

        • LOL re retractable horns. Seriously, the bubble business goes two ways. I’m a midwest city-raised/east-coast city-dwelling, liberal Jew who has also spent time in a midwestern college town (small town, sort of, but the true small town experience). I still have my bubble moments. I’m human. I’m trying. I refuse to believe we can’t find common ground even if it seems almost mythical.

    • I’m a former rural-American who now “passes” for liberal elite. My own views are fairly moderate, and I know and love people on both sides of this election. On the extreme sides of this election. Both sides are in a bubble, and both sides look down on the other. They’re not all that different really. (Again, excluding the neo-nazis. Thankfully I only know a few of those but they’re not my friends anymore.) Both sides have posted on FB how they don’t know ANYONE who voted differently than themselves, which is insane.

      With all the supposed openness of the internet, we’ve become very good at isolating ourselves, at only listening to the opinions we agree with. Media has encouraged us to listen only for a pause so we can continue talking, not to listen in order to hear. I’m very hopeful this election changes that somewhat – that it highlighted the islands in our country and encouraged people to seek out other thoughts and ideas.

      I’m also hopeful this election leads to compassion. I’ve seen a lot of talk about getting involved civically, or volunteering in schools and communities. I hope that isn’t just talk that is forgotten by Thanksgiving. I hope this leads to an influx of support and concern for our local communities, for understanding your neighbors. I hope a real good comes out of this.

      That’s the optimist in me. The louder cynic thinks this is all just a knee jerk reaction, and 4 years from now we’ll see more of the same hate and rhetoric and isolation. I hope I’m wrong.

      • +1 to all of this. I’m in similar boat, even down to the sides not knowing anyone who voted differently. Let’s be the first to offer compassion and lower hostility and hope rural America joins us.

      • KS IT Chick :

        I’m another one who grew up rural who now lives in a suburban area. My home county had 10K people when I left; it is below 8K now. The nursing home where my mother died couldn’t find nursing assistants locally. They had to bus them in from the nearest urban area, about 3 hours away. Imagine riding a van for 3 hours, doing hard physical work for 12 hours, then riding another 3 hours in the van to go home. And doing it again 2 days later. There is an active chapter of the Posse Comitatus, a tax resistance group that dates back to the late 1960’s, in that area. Think all of the non-racial issues that the KKK is involved with, and that is pretty much the Posse. I grew up with people who have white power & KKK tattoos and who wear Klan hoods.

        I hunt, fish & shoot. I also belong to the ACLU and the Sierra Club. I donate to the National Farmland Trust, so that good, productive farmland can be purchased and held in trust to use for food production, rather than being developed as yet another suburb.

        Every day, I straddle the divide between rural America and urban/suburban America. I see the results of poor quality of education in rural schools, in the kids who go to the university where my husband works, and it scares me. They really have been left behind. When my mom taught high school, she insisted that her students would have a basic level of literacy, but unless there are teachers like her, who was a transplant who hated living where they did, they will continue to be left behind.

        There is only one person in either of the classes I went to school with (changed high schools) who still lives in the area. She is a physical therapist who married a farmer. Of the 14 from one school & 15 from the other, we’ve all gone other places. The only reason they are there is that that is where the land is. If he could find a farm to by closer to a major town or urban area, they would move, too. But, the farm land near desirable locations is being gobbled up by developers to build houses, which prices farmers out of the market.

        I don’t know what the answer is. I can’t say there are “two Americas”, because there aren’t. We’re a Venn diagram of overlapping experiences and attitudes which shape us. Somehow, we need to close the gaps to make the overlaps closer to a single circle.

        • Anonymous :

          I really love everything you’ve said. And it really helped me feel more empathy for the rural white Americans who feel left behind.

      • Sydney Bristow :

        There is a great book on this subject called The Filter Bubble by Eli Pariser. The social media algorithms help to ensure that you wind up seeing more and more from people who think like you and it is so subtle that you don’t notice it.

    • Sorta Agree :

      I don’t disagree but doesn’t it go both ways? When do people ‘on the other side’ stop acting like education and a firm grasp of facts makes you out of touch? Or that caring about how meat is raised or pesticides on your food makes you an elitist? Im going to get over it I’m sure, but right now I’m still upset that ‘we’ work with the opposition when ‘they’ win, ‘we’ concede graciously when ‘they’ all but promised they wouldn’t, ‘we’ try to reach out and recognize ‘their’ grievances when we win whereas they gerrymander, ‘we’ work on getting more people to vote and ‘they’ do the opposite… i just am not there to be the bigger person right now. I never made fun of anyone for eating at Applebee’s. I’ve been made fun of for buying organic milk. But it doesn’t matter. I’m over the false equivalency.

      • Yes, but you only control yourself. You can’t make them reach out, but you can.

        Look, this stuff is still fresh. But here’s the thing: we can either elect to spend the Trump administration in a fortress of anger and hurt, convinced of our own righteousness and the irredeemable awfulness of Trump voters, or we can try to change things. In the end, we’re going to have to choose the satisfaction of being right, or the more complex path of being effective.

        My politically active life started in the 1990s, when even a Democratic president wouldn’t stand up for my causes (hello, gay rights). Eight years of a president that was mostly on my side when it came to social issues was great, but most of my life as a citizen hasn’t involved that. Progress involves swallowing your pride sometimes, no matter how hard it is.

        • Frozen Peach :

          Yes!! Love this. “The satisfaction of being right vs the more complex path of being effective.”

        • Anonattorney :

          Actually, to be effective we don’t have to do anything with 27% of the eligible voters who voted for Trump. We can instead focus all of our energy on the 43% of Americans who simply didn’t vote. I don’t think I owe the Trump voters anything. This wasn’t an issue of people talking past each other; Trump was repeatedly fact-checked, contradicted, and exposed for his own corruption (seriously, if one more person tells me they voted for Trump because Hillary is corrupt, I am going to explode). THEY DID NOT CARE. They didn’t listen. I owe them nothing.

          I’m waiting for the post mortem on why people didn’t vote. Not on why Trump voters voted the way they did.

          • Some speculation on why people didn’t vote:
            -genuinely did not like any candidate (not sure these people are going to be better than trump voters for you)
            – genuinely did not care (same)
            – lived in state without early voting and did not care enough to take off work or stand in line at dawn
            – lived in a non swing state with no competitive local elections. As we see from the popular vs electoral divide, only votes in swing states matter. I suspect this is a large portion of it but I’m curious to see if I’m right about that. This is reasonable to me. People in California or Mississippi who didn’t vote almost certainly weren’t going to make a difference. In my dark blue state, voting in general elections is a largely symbolic exercise to make you feel good about yourself.

          • KS IT Chick :

            I’ve got a friend who until this year had never voted or even been registered to vote. He’s on my trivia team at the local pub, and we talked about it a lot starting last spring. He didn’t register to vote, because he didn’t think his vote could ever make a difference. He’s served on a few juries over the years, and he felt like that was enough civic duty.

            In the district next door, the Democratic primary for the state house was literally decided by 1 vote. After 4 recounts, the county clerk discovered that she had misplaced an absentee ball from a military service member. The candidates were both women who had made it a point to come into the pub and talk with patrons during the primary season, so he’d gotten acquainted with them. (I’m setting aside the implications of votes being lost in the office of the county clerk for the moment. We are definitely going to make that a campaign issue when she’s up for re-election.)

            He was absolutely shocked that a single vote mattered that much. And he realized that that meant that his vote could matter, too. So, we got him registered, and he voted this week for the first time.

            If people don’t feel their vote has any purpose or impact, they don’t see a need to be a part of the process. It is possible that this week will cause those who feel that way to re-think their thought process, though.

      • Patches of common ground :

        I agree. But sometimes rhetecare still commonalities. The one I live is my midwestern BIL who doesnt buy supermarket factory farm meat because he is convinced its dangerous because of the hormones and breeding methods (maybe true). He hunts, and buys from small scale local farmers that he knows. As staunchly anti government and anti education as he is, we are each so far right and so left that we meet back up on the other side of the circle (I try to eat meat rarely and buy from Whole foods bec of animal rights issues and environmental issues.) So there are some things that are just so objectively wrong- such as concentration of wealth by the 1%- that we can agree. Elizabeth Warren has spoken recently about finding these commonalties that we can all work toward, it does offer hope.

      • As someone who grew up in a rural area, it’s not caring about your meat that makes you elitist, it’s being able to shop at Whole Foods and then wondering why people don’t do the same without realizing that its too far out of reach financially and geographically for the vast majority of this country. The closest Whole Foods was hours away from where I grew up. The only option was Walmart.

        And as far as this being a peaceful handover of power, my liberal friends are all circulating some petition to have Hilary put into office rather than Trump because we should ignore the electoral college and there are violent riots in Portland. From their perspective, this hardly looks like a gracious concession.

        • Patches of common ground :

          Well of course I realize most people dont have the option to shop at pricey grocery stores and of course I don’t blame them for anything. I do despise the giant factory farms , in my view owned by the 1%, that pollute my state with farm wastes and dont provide decent paying jobs, and have all hut sriven out smaller farmers. Thats who we need to all stand against.

        • Sorta Agree :

          First, that petition or something like it circulates every election by whoever loses. Second, people are peacefully taking to the streets because they want to state their opposition in hopes of sending a message that this is not a path the country should take easily; she and Obama are being gracious. Meanwhile, he threatened not to concede and many of his supporters threatened an actual revolution. Democrats didn’t stock up on guns. That’s my point – it’s not the same. It’s not two equally flawed candidates. Enough with the false equivalency.

    • Yes. Half the population only has a Walmart in their town. I have been to these towns. The employers are the prison and the walmart.

      • Baconpancakes :

        Half the population only has a Walmart in their town because they fought against any regulations that would keep the Walmart out under the guise of anti-socialism, despite Walmart receiving tax breaks smaller businesses were ineligible for. And then Walmart ran those small town businesses into bankruptcy, and sourced all of its products overseas, losing even more jobs for Americans. So yeah.

        • What? What regulations are you talking about? And you wanted to be able to stop a company from buying land and building a store exactly how? And then how were you going to claim that this is America?

          • Baconpancakes :

            Rezoning. Regulating land use IS actually legal in America. The traditional zoning in place for many small towns doesn’t allow for the huge box-store model due to increased traffic pressures, but many of these towns threw the rulebook out when Walmart came knocking. They rezoned agricultural land to commercial, allowed variances in traffic pattern requirements, and are now even rezoning residential land to commercial.

        • Or, they were happy that Wal-Mart came to town because it offered better wages and benefits than the small business owners did? Lets not pretend that all small business owners are saints or that Wal-Mart is a monolithic evil.

          Before Wal-Mart, the local grocery store where I grew up was owned by a terrible, no good family. They paid terrible, no good wages. They charged more for terrible produce and meat because they could. They were very wealthy, and they got that way off of people trying to stretch their food stamps and their wages as far as they could. Wal-Mart employed people, and paid them more, and treated them better. Their money went further and the things they bought were better quality. Life’s complicated.

          • Also, wanna know who sells the most organic food in the country? That would be your hated Walmart. So it was giving people in small towns the option of eating organic.

            High five to anon_sad. Life is complicated.

          • Life. Is. Complicated. So are people.

          • Baconpancakes :

            Life IS complicated. Walmart’s business model is simple. Become the biggest bully on the playground, and knock over anyone who won’t do what you say.

            The real tragedy is that these small towns became completely dependent on Walmart, and now Walmart is closing the stores that aren’t profitable enough. It’s like coal-mining towns all over again. Remove the individual businesses, create reliance on one centralized power, and when it’s not worth it to the corporation anymore, withdraw. The centralized power model doesn’t work for towns. A network of smaller businesses is far more resilient.

      • Except for the towns that don’t have anything remotely close to Walmart.

    • I think one of the best ways to connect with people who may have very different lives is to find whatever small piece of common ground you might have. “Oh, Nebraska, huh? My father lived in Nebraska before he and my mom had me” or “Wow, you’re from NYC, I’ve only been there once!” It sounds small, but this type of thing goes a long way. We are all humans with the desire to connect to others; most of the barriers are artificial and permeable.

      • Some people say they don’t like talking about being from the US when they’re abroad. Maybe its because of NYC, but I absolutely love talking to random people in random countries about how I live in NYC, the exact status of the world trade center/whether I remember 9/11, the landmarks or streets they’ve seen in movies, the fact that I have eaten their countries’ food and there are such and such neighborhood or festivals or whatever. You can always find something in common. Also everyone’s stories about grade school, siblings etc are the same . . people are people.

        • This may sound stupid, but I honestly think it’s easier for me to meet people from other countries in my neighborhood (far uptown NYC)/social circle/work life than it is for me to meet people from “middle America”. I don’t doubt I could find plenty of commonalities, I just live in such a (reverse) bubble.

    • Baconpancakes :

      CPA Lady, I appreciate the reminder to start putting our own houses in order. It’s true, the overeducated elite needs to listen to middle America more. But I don’t really think the election was lost because Farmer Joe and Steel Worker Billy felt left behind. I think the election went to Trump because of people like my family, who live just outside of a big, liberal midwestern city. My grandparents put them in a private religious school because they didn’t want them to have to go to school with black kids. None of them went to college, they’ve all struggled financially, and my aunt was recently complaining to me about having to learn how to use a computer at her job, and how because she refuses to learn, she’s being replaced by young people from India, but she doesn’t care because she’s retiring next year anyway. The neighborhoods they live in are 90% white, and they only associate with other white, uneducated people, despite living less than 20 minutes away from a city with an over 45% African-American population. The city has world-class museums, amazing (but cheap!) food of all ethnicities, a thriving arts scene, and entertainment of every stripe. But they refuse to go into the city. They say its dangerous, despite historically low crime rates. The truth is they just don’t like having to interact with black people.

      I’m willing to listen more. But I’m at a loss of what we can do to open minds and hearts. My family is proud of my mother, who sought education, worked her way up the ladder, and traveled the world, but they don’t make the connection that she (and I) are the very “liberal elites” they voted against in the election. They respect our educations, and listen when we speak, but they refuse to extend the same respect to the “experts” who warn about climate change and the actually terrible roadblocks placed in front of minorities in this country. If I can’t convince my own family that education is the only thing that will help people like them move forward (which, in our innovation economy, is absolutely true), how can I convince a nation of strangers?

    • Yeah its something I need to think about. I’m in MA, and a huge percentage of MA people are racist. Not KKK racist, not racist like they want someone hurt or killed, and not so racist that they aren’t kind to minorities one on one or if they like them. But in general, racist. And its easy for me to just dismiss them. My husband’s been trying to get me to more flexible, realizing I have had way more education and way more experiences outside the state, so it has to be me that “goes high” But yes in general I am probably a snob and I get especially frustrating with people’s inability to think critically on an issue. I know very few trump supporters because my circle is diverse and educated, and it is honestly hard for me to listen to trump supporters. the people I know who supported him are in my mind, disconnected from reality. they are upset about things that have been thoroughly disproven so its hard to hold a real debate or conversation there. (And there are plenty of liberals like this too- the lack of critical thinking spans both sides its just particularly in my face from trump supporters for this election).

    • Rural American :

      I’m an educated woman with an MA and a JD. For most of my career I have worked in large metropolitan areas that vote blue. Within the last 18 months I moved to a rural dark red area.

      I will tell you from my experience that’s is a misconception that all people who live in rural areas are the equvilent of hayseeds. Many locals in my community have a BA/BS if not some kind of masters degree but they decided to move to this community because they desired a small town atmosphere to raise their families and live in.

      It is a completely different culture then living in urban areas. Here the priorities are on preserving what are thought to be infringements on practicing religious beliefs, protecting the second amendment (not out of a passion for fire arms necessarily, although there is some of that, but using guns to protect crops and livestock from wild animals along with actually hunting as a way to put food on the table) and clinging to a perceived socitial shift away from “law and order.”

      These priorities do not mean these people are per se racist or intolerant.

      They want to raise their children in safe communities (something that is a shared priority by Democrates but it stated in a different way), they want to provide for their families (a shared priority), and also maintain their individual liberties (while each “side” prioritizes which liberties are most important to them the desire to maintain them is what both sides share).

      The discussions in the last two days have been entirely focused on what sets each side apart and progress is more likely if we start framing the discussions on what both sides have in common.

      • Thank you for this.

      • Anonymous :

        Protecting religious beliefs, so long as they’re Christian. That seems like an important qualification.

        • Stereotype much? Do you know these people? Because I do, and while it is true for some, it is certainly not true for all, and to make those blanket type statements makes you part of the problem.

    • Most of blame and name calling is being reserved for rural white folks. Black voter turn out was down in this election compared to 2012 and 2008 which is also part of the cause for Hillary’s loss. However, I am not seeing black voters who couldn’t care to vote being called racists, misogynists, Islamophobes etc etc..

      • anon in SV :

        because the black voters who stayed home did not vote for Trump, the racist misogynistic homophobic islamophobe.

        Unlike Trump voters, who did in fact vote for a racist misogynistic homophobic islamophobe.

        • Why are they let off so easily? They were (rightfully) thrilled to vote for Obama and get the
          first Black President. They couldn’t care enough to to vote this time
          – to get first female President. Why are they not accused of being misogynistic?
          – when their rights and safety would be in danger and of of the people running for Presidency,
          BLM movement is going on. Why are they not being accused of being selfish and not caring enough
          for the country?

          • AnoninFlorida :

            Are you aware of all the restrictions on voting for people of color? Of the requirements in many states for voters to show forms of ID that black and Hispanic people disproportionately do not have? Of the cuts in early voting days? Of the fact that Black people wait far longer to vote, because there aren’t enough polling places in Black neighborhoods? (see ) And that’s before we even consider the veiled threats that Trump was uttering about how his supporters needed to be vigilant about in-person voter fraud. When it is as quick, easy, and safe for Black people to vote as for White people then let’s talk about who is being ‘let off easy’.

          • Anonattorney :


  4. I cut four inches off my hair yesterday and I kind of hate it. The stylist did a good job but I don’t think chin length is a good look for me. I like it better pulled back from my face. Is a thin headband in any way appropriate for an almost forty year old (for either a business casual office or weekends)? Any other ideas for styling a chin length bob with very fine straight hair?

    • It’s not so much about being inappropriate, but I think a chin-length bob will almost invariably look more chic when left to hang loose compared to wearing a headband (which tends to look either childish or frumpy). Since you mention that your hair is fine and straight, have you tried playing with different styling products/tools (salt spray, hot rollers, etc but not at the same time) to see if that would help until it grows out?

      • Give it some time. I’ve worn a chin length bob on and off for years because that it what works the best for my thick straight hair that is fine in texture. You can always tuck it behind your ears. I’m a big fan of velcro rollers. They provide some volume but also smooth out my hair for a more polished look.

    • Anonymous :

      No. Sorry that doesn’t work. You have to style it until it grows out. Maybe clipped back on one side.

    • Anonymous :

      Sorry to hear that, been there. I’ve had good luck with surfer hair paste to add volume, texture, asymmetry/shape and hold (i.e., could be use to keep hair a bit pushed back from face).

    • Anonymous :

      Can I just offer sympathy? That was me about a month ago.

      As has been said: the difference between a bad haircut and a good haircut is often two weeks.

    • Whatever makes you feel comfortable, confident and put-together is appropriate. Don’t let the rules make you feel uncomfortable. You will always look better when you feel good about how you look. With that said…give it a few days before you decide if you hate it or are just not used to it.

    • Is it long enough to clip back with a stylish barr3tt3? JCrew makes some that are very simple and elegant that you might want to try.

      NO headbands — they were trendy for teens/20 somethings like 7-8 years ago thanks to Gossip Girl, and I recently tried out the look again out of curiosity (I found my headband stash at the back of my hair accessories bin). There is no way to pull it off without looking dated at best, and mutton-dressed-as-lamb at worst, unfortunately.

    • Half up in a nice barrette? That’s what I do with my shoulder length hair and I think it would still work if it was a bit shorter…

  5. Was thinking about the rural America discussions from yesterday and realized there is a perfect, wonderful, brilliant example of what can be done, and how terribly hard it is at the same time: Chobani!

    The (Kurdish immigrant) owner bought up an abandoned factory, turned it into a yogurt factory, raised local economies, paid good wages, brought immigrants and refugees into the communities and created, I hope, some diversity and appreciation in the places where he is.

    He has faced some of the worst most awful backlash over the past few weeks from the truly ignorant, so no, its not easy. But its the best example I can think of.

    Also, buy Chobani!

    • Anonymous :

      No. Chobani is ruining the water in the rural areas it operates in at rates that far exceed its estimates prior to moving in.

  6. I’ve seen a lot of good-intentioned posts from my women friends saying something like “I’m a very privileged person, but I am so worried for all my Muslim friends/so concerned about how Trump will hurt women/worried about racism.” It is not required to state your privilege in order to show compassion and empathy; we should all show those traits all the time as an essential part of being human. It is damaging to say “I’m privileged, but worried about women” because women are not a privileged class. Whatever privilege you have is separate from your distinct lack of privilege for being born female and it just hurts the cause to couch your very real fear for women’s rights in a hedging statement. It may be because people fear a reaction from the privilege police (for not having sufficiently checked their privilege), but it’s time to be compassionate, empathetic, and very much NOT afraid to speak out in a direct way on behalf of all of those who may suffer going forward.

    • Anonymous :

      I think you are overreacting. Let people be supportive how they want to be.

      • Yeah, I probably am. It just pains me to see women hedging their statements about how they’re afraid for women in particular since women are always pressured to downplay their struggles. We don’t need to hedge; we need to speak out and be very real about the threats ahead.

        • Sorta Agree :

          But that’s because when you don’t say that & even when you do, someone writes back and says ‘check your privilege.’ It’s sort of a no-win.

    • nasty woman :

      It sounds like these women many not entirely understand how to talk about privilege/what it means. Many many people, well-intentioned and otherwise, conflate social, political and economic privilege with being materially well off, having a strong family/support network, being healthy, educated, generally “safe.” That’s why it doesn’t really make sense for a woman to say “I’m privileged, but I’m worried about women.” It does make sense for a white woman to say “I’m privileged, I’m very worried about my minority friends.”

      That said, different women are vulnerable in different ways. I am in a much better position to handle sexual harassment in the work place, or to fight for paid maternity leave, than many women. I suspect that it’s a desire to acknowledge that they are luckier than most.

      • But you should not have to handle sexual harassment in the workplace or fight for paid maternity leave. Just because you are better equipped to handle the barriers than some does not mean that you do not suffer for being born a woman. I understand your point, but as an example, would we say that rich women aren’t oppressed because they can fly to Sweden for an abortion if they need it? No; you should be able to access safe healthcare wherever you are and regardless of your sex.

        • nasty woman :

          I know you shouldn’t have to. What I’m trying to do is suggest possibilities for why these women are saying what they’re saying- not say that they’re correct. My post in *no way* said that rich/educated women should have to put up with it. Dunno where you got that from-my post clearly says that it doesn’t make sense for a woman to say that she’s privileged but worried about women.

    • that was me :

      While I agree that women are not a privileged class, if you are a white woman, you can’t escape that you have a lot of privilege. I come from Russian immigrant parents, spoke Russian at home, am Russian Orthodox, have a weird Russian last name, and eat weird Russian foods. I have experienced s3xism and this election highlighted that we still live with it, even at the highest levels. But I am still a thin, straight, able-bodied, American-born white woman. Soon I will change my last name when I get married and no one will even know about this Russian flag I have carried in my name my whole life. BUT the other thing this election highlighted for me was that while I walk around looking like a woman every day and can’t escape that, I would be lying if I said that my life was as hard as it is for my black friend who recently heard “lynch!” chants while walking home or my friend who has decided not to wear her hijab so that she doesn’t “provoke” anyone. Women are absolutely held back in subtle ways but white women live an easier life (when they don’t open their mouths!) than those who are non-white and discriminated against just for being.

      I think this is why so many of my white female friends have been stunned or shocked and so many of my non-white friends have expressed that they are angry and sad but also not surprised. This election has touched a lot of different people in a lot of different ways.

      • Yes, you have white privilege – but you don’t have “woman privilege.” There is no such thing. Any way in which you are more advantaged than other women is not due to your status as a woman. I think it’s important to acknowledge that so we can adequately tackle the problems that ALL women face – and for many women, like you mentioned, their problems are compounded by sexism, religious discrimination, and others. We should acknowledge that and work hard to fight against it, but as long as we pay attention to specific disparities, our efforts can benefit ALL women.

        • that was me :

          That’s exactly the point I was making. No such thing as woman privilege :(

        • *sigh

          Youre missing her point. This is why so many people are turned off by of feminism. Yes, it is important but we need intersectionality. We need to acknowledge that some women have entirely different (yet parallel in some ways) experiences than others due to their race/ethnicity/skin color/religion/etc. – its just a fact. We cannot us feminism as a blanketed movement and assume everyone has the same struggle – which they do not and pisses WOC such as myself off. Acknowledging and respecting womens’ different experiences doesnt dilute the feminist message – it strengthens it and brings more people together.

          • Very well said

          • No one said anything otherwise? It seems that we all agree that all women have struggles, some have more struggles than others, and that the goal is to bring people together.

  7. I’m going to a wine club tonight where we are supposed to bring a Chilean red wine and a Chilean dish as well. Any recommendations for a good wine or food to bring? Thanks!

    • I assume everyone will bring empanadas and sopapillas, so instead maybe you can do something like an Ave Palta? (It’s a sandwich with chicken salad and avocado.) Dessert wise, you could do an Arroz con Leche (rice with milk)or even something simple like some papaya with whipped cream.

    • Alfajores? Kind of like a cookie sandwich with dulce de leche in the middle.

    • Chilean Wine :

      Trader Joe’s has a $4-$5 bottle of a Chilean white blend (I think a viognier blend?) that I super love.

    • When I lived in Chile, the most common street food I saw was a hot dog topped with avocado and mayonnaise. I think it’s called a “completa.” (I’m not recommending this, just noting it!) Other good Chileno food is ceviche or pastel de choclo.

  8. I have a question about basement bathrooms. We definitely want a toilet and sink down there so we can go to the bathroom while watching TV without running upstairs. Once we do all the plumbing for that, I understand that the cost for a shower stall would be pretty minimal. But it would be one of those ugly fiberglass pre-fabricated shower stalls, since we don’t have money in the budget for a tile shower. The rest of the bathroom has a pretty luxurious look (granite counter, high-end cabinet vanity) so I’m a little concerned the fiberglass shower will look jarringly out of place. We also don’t have the budget for glass doors and I’m a little worried that a shower curtain wouldn’t be effective at keeping water in the shower area without a tub. I also don’t foresee it getting much use, since our basement will have a rec room and play room, and we don’t anticipate having anyone sleep down there (and there’s no egress window, so it’s not really safe for anyone to sleep down there). We have two full baths and one half bath (toilet/sink only) in the main living area of our house and don’t really feel like we need more. Resale value is a very minimal concern since, barring a catastrophic event, we plan to be in this house forever. I’m personally leaning toward no shower, but everything I’ve found online says it’s silly to put in just a half bath when a 3/4 bath is only minimally more expensive.

    • Get the shower plumbed in with the cheap stall. Buy a nice curtain that’s long enough to keep the water in. If no one uses the shower, you can use it to store deck cushions or an artificial Christmas tree. In a few years, your budget may stretch to tiling the shower and putting the glass door, and you’ll just be doing a cosmetic upgrade vs. getting the plumber back to install the shower.

      • I agree. It will be easier to have the basic setup done now and then you can upgrade in the future.

    • No Problem :

      You could have the contractor rough in the plumbing without attaching it to any fixtures. Then you can decide later if you want to add a shower.

    • As someone who is house hunting right now, put in the 3/4. We just have a 1/2 in our current house, but we really wish it were a full. My husband has his treadmill down there, and he wants to be able to work out and then shower. Plus, when the kids are older, having that extra shower for someone to get ready is a great convenience. It’s a dealbreaker for us in buying.

    • Killer Kitten Heels :

      Agree with everyone else that you should put in the 3/4.

      We have a 3/4 in our basement, and the shower stall is a prefab – it has a lip in the front (so, like, a tiny wall you need to step over to get into the shower) that keeps the water in even though we use a shower curtain. I’d recommend asking for some different prefab options to compare before making a decision.

      Also, you can always change the shower later when you have the budget – it might help you to think of the prefab as kind of a temporary placeholder until you can fully finish the bathroom, if you really kind of hate it.

      • Anonymous :

        Be careful. We bought a house with a basement bathroom and found that the sewer drain continually backed up. We got rid of it, and renovated the second bathroom the floor above.

    • Never too many shoes... :

      I would honestly not put it in if it is going to be dramatically different to the rest of the room (which it sounds like it is). What about putting in the plumbing and then adding tiles/glass doors down the road when you have the money?

  9. I’m coming from the Northeast for a court appearance in Atlanta. Can I get some weather and culture advice — do I need hose with my skirt suit?

    • Frozen Peach :

      No hose needed. It’s been chilly in mornings and evenings but quite warm– 75 + — during the day.

      • If you want to look profesional, do not forget the stocking’s. Even when warm, it is better then haveing your legs show, especialy if you have any mark’s on your leg’s.

        BTW, Kat, this skirt is cute and fruegel, but I could not get it b/c of the pockets in the tuchus. Frank would constantley be trying to put his hand’s in there and squeeze my tuchus. I will NOT let happen in the office. It is VERY unprofesional–the hive should remember this if they work with a schmoe like Frank. FOOEY!

    • Also allow for plenty of travel time to any location, the traffic is no joke!

      And you don’t need hose.

  10. What does an elite do now? :

    I voted Hill as did my husband. I’m a lawyer that works in finance and M&A of infrastructure. My husband is also in a field where he might benefit from Trump. We will certainly benefit from all his proposed tax cuts, child care credits, etc.

    I wanted to support job retraining for middle America, health care for middle America, etc., but feel like they spit in my face. Now, I feel like the only choice left to me is to make money. I feel I’m at the very bottom of where the 1%’s money actually trickles down to – as a lawyer I make money off their fees and have a few more insights into where real money is investing and what the trends actually are. In my particular area, I’m guessing that there will be slightly more financing of infrastructure from private, Texas money and less from international sources that worry that our permitting system is uncertain right now (whereas I think the Texas money will just want to jump at the chance to maybe get steel in the ground that may escape robust permitting/enviro regulations).

    I also think there’s a decent chance a lot of derivatives finance and private finance will come back with a vengeance in the next 4 years – maybe at BOOM speeds before the inevitable BUST to follow. So, since middle America spit in my face, called me an elite, and told me my intentions to put my money where my mouth was didn’t matter to them, what else can/should I do?

    Only thing I feel bad about is the inevitable damage to the environment (really really really super depressing to me), but feel helpless to stop that.

    • I think you are right, and the infatructure work that Trump is talkeing about will benefit construction worker’s and then have a TRICKEL down effect to us, as WC lawyer’s as the worker’s get hurt on the job (or pretend as much some of the time). So as an attorney at law, I too should benefit through my lawfirm in getting more WC defense referrals, which should be a good thing for the firm, but not for me unless we expand b/c I am already over worked and need someone to help me so that I do NOT have to bill SO MANY HOURS each week! FOOEY! So Trump may do good for lawyers generally after all, even if he does get rid of DUDD-FRANK! YAY!!!

    • Seriously? Go back and read the last day or two’s worth of threads on this very site. Plenty of ideas on practical things you can do other than just “make money”. You sound like you’d benefit from volunteering at a local shelter. A commitment where you keep helping people in need, even if they don’t always act grateful, because you learn that sometimes anger and lashing out is a defense mechanism, and sometimes it’s not all about you.

    • Try to change your attitude and have some empathy.

    • Um, put down the internet and go do some good. Seriously. Volunteer in your community, positively impact the world on a smaller scale. Reasonable people can disagree. That doesn’t mean that they spit in your face. Politicians makes promises to get elected and these things don’t come to fruition because they can’t get through a pretty large system of checks and balances.

    • You know that middle America didn’t vote 100% for Trump, right?

    • I was really shocked by all this. And I represent rural, blue collar workers for a living.

      I’ve turned down jobs from big law, from the government, and medium and out of state firms. For what? To continue to protect people’s rights against the employers who will f*ck them over given any opportunity to do so? So I can take less pay, pay less of my loans, assume more debt, give up manis and pedis and shopping other things I thought were too wasteful in light of what I see others going through on a daily basis?

      So my client can tell me today, a black unmarried mother who is currently homeless, that the Obamas are gay otherwise they wouldn’t have legalized gay marriage before legalizing marijuana, that people who get food stamps should be drug tested, that Hillary staying will Bill shows other women they should stay in abusive relationships, and that gay marriage is wrong because this country was founded on Christian ideals? She’s living in her car and needs help getting on SS disability (she’s not disabled enough). She moves into section 8 housing tomorrow. What is even the point? Why shouldn’t I just go to big law and pay off my loans and watch the world burn from my ivory tower?

      • I mean I won’t. But I get what you are saying. It’s hard to work this week here in middle America when no one has given me one good GD reason they voted for him. They are all just celebrating soundbites.

      • You sound burned out. I’m a public defender, and I am too. I just had a client (unemployed, black this time although they are a mix of races) complain that she couldn’t go on the CRUISE she had booked because her CREDIT CARDS were late coming in the mail. And then she complained that Obama hadn’t done anything for her so that’s why she voted for Trump.

        Eff this week.

    • Literally what are you talking about. You can volunteer, so pro bono work, run for office, join you local political party, campaign, write letters, support immigrants rights organizations. Ya know, same as the rest of us?

    • My thought, as someone who will disproportionately benefit from any Republican tax plan: commit right now to giving any money you save on taxes to the ACLU, or another organization that will hold this administration accountable.

    • Anon for this :

      I will still work to help people and work on future elections but if there is money to be had from this Sh!t storm, I’d like a piece of it too. Since a lot of people voted with their wallets, while I completely disagree with their choice, I hope my wallet gets fatter as well.

    • What does an elite do now? :

      These just sound like naive responses to me. Also sound like typically female responses.

      I won’t stop my charitable activities in my urban area on behalf of my neighbors in a city that voted overwhelmingly for Hillary. In an urban area, I interact daily with folks of all stripes, so there’s not really an option of putting blinders on. It’s more about thinking of what can actually get accomplished under the current system.

      But I don’t think middle America wants my help – and I don’t think they’re as dumb as you guys are making them out to be – like they didn’t know they were making a choice to burn shit down rather than accept help from elites (you know, like maybe minorities also need help to and aren’t they as white people inherently different/better than minorities and deserving of help in a different form (like a job) rather than actually having to take “welfare” which is a dirty thing b/c its also given to minorities).

      • I think you are a troll or delusional. Of course “middle America” doesn’t want your sanctimonious charity hand outs. I honestly have zero understanding of how you get from that to “fine I’ll just make all the money I can what else is there to do.”

        • What does an elite do now? :

          Yeah, I know they don’t want my charity – I got that message. They want DT’s programs, which, I think are going to result in a windfall to me. I think they want to believe that elites won’t make money off DT’s policies and that rural america will come up the winners against the elites. If they’re right, they are right, but I highly doubt it. It still leaves me wondering what the heck I can/should do.

          I also think at least half of their opposition to democratic programs is that Democrats want the programs to be available for EVERYBODY, including minorities. I think rural america’s unconscious bias is this: They want handouts, they just want them to look different than the “welfare” ones we give to minorities b/c they want to believe in their superiority. That’s what I hear them saying when they say they want tax cuts and such for businesses to come to their areas – they want handouts in the form of tax cuts for white people, and welfare for minorities so that they can bash away at welfare.

      • HAHAHAHAHA! Your belief that your urban community reflects folks of ALL stripes (it doesn’t) is naive.

        • What does an elite do now? :

          Well by definition, it doesn’t include “non-city stripes”. And yes, I was using that as a euphemism for racial diversity. I think there are plenty of people living in cities that have spent plenty of time in rural america as well too.

      • nasty woman :

        “Also sound like typically female responses.”

        So what?

        The responses are naive? How so?

        If you want advice for what you can get accomplished over the current system, do what has been suggested in the responses- review recent comment threads, which are full of examples. There was a big thread yesterday specific to environmental issues. No one is saying that you have to help out “middle America” (whatever that really is) specifically. There are tons of other things you can do.

        • What does an elite do now? :

          Naive this way: I can spend my time tutoring kids on Saturdays, OR, I can lend my support along with the rest of our country to financial support via taxes and policies for quality public education. I think the difference in impact is so HUGE. Tutoring is great for a number of reasons (most in terms of the relationship formed and the character of the person giving up time/money), but I don’t think it will ever, ever, ever make up for poor support, financially and policy-wise, for public education. It’s naive to think things like tutoring and other individual contributions to charities can make up for what society looses by having poor, unfunded social welfare programs.

          • Have you heard of the starfish parable? Kid tossing back starfish on the beach full of them and saying that at least he made a difference to that one. That’s what tutoring the individual kid is doing, making a difference to that one. Sure, you can also contribute to making schools better from the top by sticking a whole lot of money in them. But, don’t underestimate the difference that you can make on a smaller level. I think you will find it more immediately rewarding.
            And also, what I hear is a fundamental difference of opinion on the role of government. You can fund social programs on a private level or on a public level. It’s not even a matter of size- there are huge private foundations and initiatives fighting for social programs. It’s still money- just a difference in who administers it.

      • People want jobs and want to be able to support themselves and their families. If all you offer them is some subsidies and then get mad that they are reluctant to take it, I don’t get the outrage.

      • I understand your frustration here; it’s like hey I was willing and have been willing to pay more in taxes and have a more regulated industry because I think social services are important and should be funded. Now they’ve voted in a party with a platform against social services and they want to cut the government. Well then fine, if that’s what you want, then I will take what you give me.

        But for me, there are other world issues and human rights at stake here that are also unfortunately part of this platform and “mandate” that are important to me. The people impacted by these other issues were more likely to be HRC voters. I will happy use my money to support those.

      • Anonymous :

        Just wrong. I know plenty of people in “Middle America” who want to help. I get you’re frustration, but we need to stop grouping anyone into pigeon holes. Whether that be nobody in Middle America wants to help or everyone “uneducated” voted for Trump or all “illegals” are going to hurt us… All of the blanket statements from every angle have to stop EXCEPT this: All Americans have to accept that we have a President Elect and come together in the best way they individually know how and are able to do so we can address the very real issues facing us.

    • My SO and I are in the same place. We both voted for Hillary, we are high earners, and now we expect to see tax cuts in addition to higher salaries if the tax code is modified and financial regulations are weakened.

      I’ve always voted based on social issues. I’ve pledged to donate any additional money I make from those cuts to women’s rights, LGBTQ rights, civil rights, climate change, etc. organizations which are fighting for the issues I care about. I don’t have a lot of time to donate but I can at least donate funding.

  11. I hope this story brightens someone’s day.
    I never turn the light on to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night — we have a nightlight and have lived in the same house for 10+ years. So I got up at 2:30 this am, went to the bathroom, washed my hands, and turned to leave the bathroom. That’s when I realized the bottom of my PJ pants were wet. I turned on the light and realized the toilet was overflowing. I grabbed a bucket of rags, plunged, and went back to sleep.
    Husband wakes me up this am — “Is there a body somewhere or do you need help?”
    I had my period so the water was pink and the rags are now pink as well, sitting in the bucket to be washed.
    Takeaways: A good husband asks if there’s a body or if you need help getting rid of it. Bad husbands call the cops and ask questions later. ;-)

  12. spouse/fb advice :

    My husband recently unfriended some folks on facebook. There was no falling out; they were members of a club he used to belong to and he feels he’s moved on from them. (He said, more or less, that he was tired of reading their whining on facebook. We haven’t seen them in ~6 months.) He did not ask me to unfriend them but said ht thought it ‘weird’ that I was connected on fb to his former friends while he was not. Basically, I think he wants me to unfriend them but thinks it’s too much to ask it. I want to be supportive I don’t really care if we never see these folks again. But to me unfriending feels like a nuclear option – there are a lot of folks on fb with whom I’m not really in touch. I’m also wondering if he’ll regret cutting ties with these folks. He has some social anxiety issues that flare up under stress, and he’s really under the gun at work right now. I’d appreciate other people’s thoughts on this.

    • I think you are putting way too much emphasis on FB. The people probably won’t notice that you have unfriended them. I mean who cares, it’s Facebook. If you want to stay friends with them because that is more important to you than your relationship with your husband, fine, but there is nothing nuclear about unfriending people on Facebook. Presumably you have some other way of contacting these people, so if you want to reach out to them later, do that. Or GASP refriend them.

    • You’re both overthinking it.

    • Just unfriend them.

    • I have a FB friend test for the numerous acquaintances from college, law school and other random people I have not seen in years.

      1) Do I speak or see this person on a regular basis? If yes, keep. If no, next question….
      2) Would I say hi to them on the street if I saw them? If yes, keep. If no, next question…
      2) Do I want to know what is going on in their life at any given time? If no, then unfriend. If yes, next question….
      3) Do I want them knowing what is going on in my life at any given time? Do I want them to see pictures of my wedding, vacations, kids, etc.? If no to either of these, then unfriend.

  13. Blowout question :

    I don’t have a DryBar (or equivalent) in my city, but many places are starting to offer them. I was reading the Amazon reviews of Alli Webb’s book and she notes her curly and unruly hair. My hair is the opposite: I’ve spent good $ on perms, hot rollers, velcro rollers, curling irons, shampoos, sprays, teasing brushes, hairsprays, all in an effort to coax curl and volume into my limp, baby-fine hair. The only things that make my hair less tragic are being in really humid places like Miami and New Orleans (not an option with my job, but I would otherwise move for good hair).

    Is a DryBar trip on my next work travel (or a good blowout at a local salon) going to even work on my hair (shoulder-length)? And what do I tell people to do? I don’t want pageant hair, but something a bit more office-appropriate that is still very pretty.

    Help, y’all!

    I am going to get on the waitlist for the book at my library (b/c I am still thrifty like that and also b/c I’m not sure it will be something that will bring lasting solace for my tresses — if it does, I will actually take a long position on blowouts and buy it).

    • Do you get your hair styled after a cut? How does it look? I think Drybar or any other blow-dry salon would give you approximately the same look.

      • My understanding is that blowout bar places have styles that they can do. So you can order up an “extra fluffy” or something. I am not sure how I convey what I want when it’s vague and not in hair-speak: I want a Real Housewives-meets-Good-Newsreader hair that is bigger (but not pageant hair) and a bit curled (but not curly and not 80s curling iron weirdness) and keep it soft, not crunchy, with the hairspray; you may need to backcomb a little.”

        I just want Good Hair. :(

        • I think in Drybar terms, you want the Southern Belle. I haven’t tried it. Once I told my stylist I wanted Kate Middleton hair. My hair wasn’t as long as hers, it’s not as thick as hers, and I don’t have nearly as much hair as she appears to, but my stylist worked very hard and got a good approximation of the princess look. So, I think the look you’re going for can be done, but it may really take more time than you want to spend.

  14. I dropped my phone in the tub Tuesday night after probably too many glasses of wine. I’ve been off the grid for 3 days with the exception of internet at work and my new upgraded phone comes today. Why am I not looking forward to getting my phone back more? Haha. I’ve been reading this “book” I found in my room. No paper-cuts yet. Anyways limiting my exposure to the internet to work e-mails and this site has helped in what I am sure what would have been an otherwise long and terrible week. Thanks for all the sharing, ideas, and positivity.

    • I’ve been off facebook/news sites/news on TV & radio/anything approaching discussion of the election beyond [this s i t e] since approximately 2:30 a.m. Wednesday, and it’s been good. I plan to phase those things back in in the next week gradually — but probably still limited (e.g., no SNL this week).

  15. Just wanted to say thank you to all the veterans on this site. Politics aside for one moment at least, and just thank you to all.

    • Times a million.

    • Yes — my check went to the Fisher Houses today. They are like Ronald McDonald houses but for the families of servicemembers to stay in when their person is receiving medical care (they are all over the US and also in Germany).

      As a slouching American who has enjoyed all of my rights at no personal cost to me, you have my heartfelt thanks.

      • My boss’s mom recently died. My boss is a veteran. The obit requested a donation to Fisher House in lieu of flowers, so that is what we did.

      • +1. Veterans have my infinite thanks.

        You can also donate unused frequent flier miles to Fisher House (instructions on how to do this are on the Fisher House site). The miles are used to purchase airline tickets for veterans and their families undergoing medical treatment.

    • Go Navy!

      Happy Veteran’s Day to all who’ve served.

  16. Yesterday one of my employees was told on the street to go back to his country now or he’d be going later in a bodybag.

    I don’t know how to respond other than to tell him I have his back and step in if I see something like that happening while I’m around.

    I can’t believe this is happening.


      This isn’t exactly responsive, but I found it helpful this morning when I was wondering “What would I do if I was a witness to this kind of hateful behavior?”

    • Brunette Elle Woods :

      Report it to the police. Speak up about it.

  17. Just had to share this after what happened on Tuesday. I have been feeling upset and heartbroken as much as everyone else here. This morning I got flowers delivered to my apartment from my grandfather. My 85 year old, southern, life long Republican grandfather. The note with them said “You matter. I’m proud of you and I love you.” My SIL told me that he offered to pick my 11 year old niece up from school on Wednesday and take her out for dinner. My niece says he had a talk with her about how she matters and she has every right to do anything the same as any man and that no boy is allowed to treat her like Trump treats women. He also told her that if she or her friends ever feel unsafe (her best friend is black) she can call him anytime and he will come get her/them. I know it may seem like a small thing given everything that is happening but it made me feel better today.

  18. I need some help improving the first 5 minutes I come home from work. DH’s work schedule recently shifted to earlier in the day, so he now gets home hours before I do. Before his schedule changed, we would usually get home at roughly the same time, which was nice because we’re both on the winding down schedule. On days I would get home much later than him, it always caused friction. Now that’s every day.

    He’s up in my business the minute I walk in the door, frequently a couple of drinks deep. I need a calm transition to being home, not to be met at the door with a hyperactive tipsy 300 lb ball of energy literally swooping me off my feet/crushing me in a bear hug/otherwise invading my space. It is anxiety producing and immediately puts me in a terrible mood. I have tried to talk to him about this many times but he doesn’t seem to really get it. He’ll keep himself in check because he knows I want it, but he has this wounded puppy look on his face, like he believes I’m just not excited to see him. Does anyone have a better approach to coming home and winding down? Clearly what we’re doing is not working for us.

    • “You are too drunk to respect my feelings every night when I get home. We need to talk about your alcohol use because it has become a problem for our marriage. When you are sober, you say you understand that I’m happy to see you and also want a few minutes to take off my shoes and put my keys down and go to the bathroom before you are all over me physically. But when I get home and you’ve been drinking all of that goes out the window. I don’t want to come home every day and feel like I need to fight you off, and that’s how I feel now.”

    • Woah jeez dude, your H is absolutely off his rocker. He needs to relax, and respect your personal space!

    • Anon for this :

      I can be like your husband. Luckily, I usually get home later. On days when I work from home or am home sick I desperately crave human interactions. When I walks in I usually go greet him, kiss him, ask him how his day was, ask him about our dinner plans – and I’m sure that’s a lot.

      We actually had a discussion about our different preferences because I’d be hurt that when I got home he didn’t stop what he was doing to come greet me the same way.

      Do you guys have a dog? Maybe he needs a companion for those extra hours he is home alone.

      • How did he communicate with you effectively about this? What made it click for you that it’s not personal, it’s not against you, it’s just that he needs some space when he gets home? I’m sure if DH were explaining this problem, it would be, she isn’t even happy to see me when she gets home.

        He keeps saying that he’s going to use his newfound afternoon free time to work out when he gets home, but that has yet to happen. I think it would really help him to burn off that end of the day energy and have something to occupy his time so he’s not just twiddling his thumbs waiting for me to get home (or sitting around drinking). We can’t have a dog unfortunately.

    • This sounds bigger than the 5 minute routine. Everyday he is drunk and runs at you and hugs you when you get home? This would be exhausting. I think talk to him about drinking as a first step if it is everyday and is causing him to forget what he agreed to sober.

    • Anonymous :

      Can y’all compromise? Let him be an excited puppy dog for the first 5 minutes you get home and then retreat to your own space to wind down.

      Also, there’s a S3x in the City episode about this :)

      • Anonymous :

        Why should she have to compromise by allowing her husband to invade her space when she doesn’t want him to because he is drunk and wants to? Nope.

        • Anonymous :

          I guess I didn’t read it as her husband being drunk whens he gets home every night. Maybe I misunderstood. Either way, of course he should be respectful of what she does and does not want, but if there’s a compromise between his being over-bearing and suffocating and her wanting to be completely separate from him when she arrives home, that’s probably a preferable solution.

          Sometimes it feels like the threads on here get very extreme very fast. And we go from “my husband makes it hard for me to come home and unwind after work because he’s overly excited to see me and he’s already wound down with a drink and when I tell him that it hurts his feelings” to “my drunk husband is disrespecting my personal space and right to be left alone and has no consideration for my feelings on this.”

          • Yeah I mean the drinking isn’t EVERY day, but it certainly exacerbates the issue when he’s had a few. I would say it’s twice a week on average. Every Friday night without fail, which is why I’m asking now.

            I’d like to find some middle ground here. I don’t want to feel like I have to fend him off to get in the door (and I’m sure he doesn’t want me to, either) but I also don’t want him to feel like I’m not happy to see him.

    • Anonymous :

      Calling your husband a “hyperactive 300lb ball of energy” sounds a bit mean to me.

      • Maybe, I was trying to give an accurate mental picture. There are really two aspects of this – emotional and physical. For the physical part, the size difference is definitely a factor. Him bounding toward me feels physically overwhelming in a way it might not (as much, anyway) if we were closer to the same size. And it’s not as if anyone ever makes him feel physically small, so I think he has a hard time understanding what that might feel like.

      • Anonymous :

        That’s ridiculous. What part of that is mean?

    • I was this person when I first moved in with my fella. I always get home first and when he got home I was a very excited bounding ball of energy. But all it took from him was a wince and “Yikes, give me a couple minutes to settle in first, wouldja,” and I toned it way down. Not sure what to think about his refusal to accommodate this. It seems like a very simple request.

      Now after two years, homecoming is much more routine. I’m usually cooking dinner when he gets home and I don’t drop everything. We call out our hellos, he does his 5 minute transition routine and then comes into the kitchen to say hi and give me a smooch and we can chit chat about our days.

    • Frozen Peach :

      I’m the other side of this equation too. What worked for me, oddly enough, and still does, is scheduling my “unwind” time to happen during my commute. There’s a nature preserve on my way home, and I frequently (especially on days when I really need unwinding) stop for five or ten minutes and look at the river or call a friend to chat. Makes a huge difference on my outlook when I walk in the door. I think same could go for (one) drink at a bar or an exercise class…

  19. Baby Registry Etiquette Q :

    How much a faux-pas is it to gift a new mom something not on the registry at a baby shower? I had a whole list of books that have a personal connection to me/I think mom would enjoy as well that I wanted to gift (along with a card about the significance of each book), but I just received an invite in the mail that mentions the registry. We’re close friends, and she’s the first of my friends to have a baby, so I wanted to do something really personal. Can I still give the books? Is it too much to do books (list is 2-3 long) + a registry item?

    To complicate matters I’m flying in for the shower, so if I do buy something from the registry it would have to fit in a carry on. Shipping somewhere local and picking it up before the shower isn’t an option, for various reasons.

    What do you all suggest?? TIA for any advice.

    • Of course it’s fine. My best friend has gotten my kids a million books over the years and it is amazing.

    • Super common to purchase something that has personal sentiment/a tool you loved/clothes off registry. maybe pair a book (or a few) + something on the registry?
      How many books are we talking about? If it’s a whole library (or shelf)…. maybe save that for when baby is born, or have it shipped separately to their home + bring a token gift?

    • Anonymous :

      My friend said the best gifts she got were gifts that weren’t on her registry- she didn’t know what she needed when she registered, so having her friends who had been through it bring their favorite things was a godsend.

      I would say it’s perfectly ok to get items that aren’t on the registry, but I’d maybe do 2-3 books and something really practical like baby wipes or diapers (which you could pick up on arrival)

    • I like to do 1-2 personal gifts plus a registry present or gift card. Anything from the registry is great, but a gift card is super helpful at the end when you may still have large presents to buy (or find other things you want after your shower).

    • You can also ship a registry gift directly to the new mom and just give her a few books to open at the shower. Maybe put a picture of the gift in a card so she can “open” it.

    • Books are always perfect, and are always my baby gift.

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