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Reader L has a question about networking and job hunting in a different geographic area…
I just became engaged to a wonderful young man who lives an hour and a half away from me. This is the closest we've lived since we began dating a long time ago, due to jobs and schooling. I've been at my job for 3 years, and am not happy. He loves his job of one year and it has much more potential for growth. I've been quietly asking around, trying to see if anyone knows people in his city, which is the largest in our state, and he is not in the same field as I am and doesn't have connections. Ideally I'd like to go to the same office as I work in (government) in boyfriend's city, but it turns out there are 3 people in my own office who told me they've already submitted their resumes months ago to that city's office and no response. These are people with much more experience than me so I'm quite discouraged. Should I just send my resume blindly and hope? Should I mention in the cover letter that my future husband lives in the city and that's why I want to move there, or not say anything about my desire to move? I've already tried the local bar association there and the website of my law school's career services office, but it seems like no one is hiring. One thing that's a possibility is telling my bosses that I want to go elsewhere for a few years until my fiancee can start telecommuting with his job and then we can move back. There are 3 women in my office who have done that – 2 have done it multiple times now – and they are always welcomed back with open arms. Since both fiancee and I are from the town I live in now, I think that's a reasonable and believable request. Unfortunately we can't just live halfway between our jobs as my office has a residency requirement to live within a certain mileage of work.
I'm curious to see what the readers say about this one. First, to Reader L, congratulations on your engagement! Some thoughts on job hunting and networking are below, but I'll say up front that the telecommuting option sounds like a great option for your situation, particularly if you know your boss is open to the idea. Talk with the women who've done it before and see what they thought of the experience — what is their advice to you in talking to your boss? what is their advice to you in telecommuting? Once you start telecommuting you can network (and interview, depending on whatever agreement you strike with your boss in order to telecommute) in your new city without fear of using all those vacation days that I'm sure you're hoping to save for the wedding festivities and your honeymoon.
Tips on Jobhunting in a Different City
Now, some ideas on networking and jobhunting in a different city than your own…
a) Borrow your fiance's address. One of the tips I remember from my college years (where the university was in Chicago but many people migrated to New York to work) was that you should “borrow” a local friend's address to use on your resume and correspondence so it looks like you're a local. If the city is only an hour and a half drive, it should be no problem if the prospective employer wants to interview you sometime soon, like in a day or two.
b) Make plans to be in the city for Week X. Even if you don't have any job interviews planned, write to the employers you're interested in and tell them that you'll be moving to the city soon and would love to hear more about their business, and could you arrange an informational interview for the week of X? Arrange as many as you can. I would also add to this mix any alumni (whether you knew them or not) who are working in the industry you'd like to be in, or who work for employers you'd like to work for. Repeat as often as you can given your current vacation time allotment.
c) Use online social networks to see who you know in the city. For example, if you sign up for LinkedIn Pro you can use the “Advanced” tab to search for connections located “in or near” a certain zipcode, and you can filter them by seniority level, which groups they have in common with you, what level of connection they are to you, and even by where they fall in the Fortune 1000 rankings. So if I were moving to LA and wanted to find a legal job that had some relation to the IP or media law field, I would search for people working within 50 miles of 90036 (the zip code of a friend's LA address), who work in Industries such as Judiciary, Law Practice, Legal Services, or Legislative Offices, of all Seniority Levels, who are affiliated with some of the Groups I've joined (such as Media & Entertainment Law Group, Medill Alumni, ThoseInMedia, The Copyright Society of the USA, Digital Breakfast, etc), and look only for 1st or 2d connections and group members who speak English. Given my current connections, that search nets me 397 results — not a bad place to start. (Full disclosure: I have a LinkedIn Pro membership courtesy of LinkedIn; I also have purchased a small amount of stock in the company.)
d) If you do start telecommuting, do your best to network and expand your connections. A number of my friends swear by charitable groups like the Junior League as a great way to meet new people in a city; you may also find that a number of local institutions such as museums have “under 35” networking groups that may be great ways for you to network. Get involved in alumni groups, local chapters of the bar association or specialty associations, church groups — whatever interests you. You don't mention where you'll be holding the wedding (your city or his), but as you get to know your vendors I'd even suggest asking them if they know anyone in your field — you just never know.
e) Since you do recognize that it's likely you'll be back in your current city one day, don't forget about it once you're away. Continue to network and make business lunches with people whenever you're back in the city.
Readers, what are your tips for jobhunting from afar? What other resources would you recommend to Reader L?
Updated stock photo via Stencil. Originally pictured: Map, originally uploaded to Flickr by NeilsPhotography.
Morticia
I don’t think that telecommuting is an option for Reader L, and it isn’t yet an option for her fiance.
What I find interesting here is that, in many areas, a 90 minute commute isn’t really considered commuting (or job hunting) ‘from afar’. I live in MA and currently have a 90 minute commute (each way); I’m sure that many in the NY and DC metro areas have the same.
If Reader L hadn’t said that she wasn’t happy at her job, I’d advise her fiance to start commuting from Hometown. This advice might change if property ownership was involved.
That said, I have job searched out of state and needed to leverage my network to do so. A former boss eventually gave me the lead that resulted in my new job. As Kat mentioned, it was helpful to use the address of a friend when jobsearching, and I stayed with friends while interviewing and in the first few weeks after I started at my new job.
Good luck!
SF Bay Associate
Yep. My live-in SO’s commute is 90 minutes each way. It’s not fun, but it’s not impossible.
Ru
In NYC; my commute is a MINIMUM of 90 min. Grumble grumble…..
Anon
Holy smokes! Pardon my ignorance, but is that typical?
Ru
It’s not rare. Commutes are dependent on mode. I take bus, commuter rail and then subway/commuter rail depending on my mood, each way. I’d say the average commute is btwn 15-45 min but I live on the edge of an outer boro.
Amanda
I would never take a job just to follow my boyfriend, nor would I expect him to do this for me, unless we were surely going to get married.
Once I know that I am going to be married to him, then I would have to sit down and ask him whether his job was important and whether I could get a job that would be good for me, at least until we had a child, when I would want to stop working for a few years until our child got into school.
We would have to examine the schools in both places; if he worked in a bad place for schools, then I would factor that in. The school has to be good or else what is the point?
Finally, I would have to factor in family issues, b/c my family is important to me I would not want to live to far away.
stc
Ellen toned down?
Lola
Yup. Minus the caps and the boss…
Janie
A little late to this party, but I’m a native New Yorker – I’ve commuted about an hour to High School, college, work, and now law school (including each of my internships). I’ve always lived within two zip codes in an outer borough and it seems that wherever I was going for the last twelve years, it takes “about an hour”.
kellyn
Threadjack, por favor.
My husband’s best friend and his wife just had a baby about 2.5 months ago. Mom is home with the baby for the summer (she’s a school teacher, so she’ll go back in September when school starts). When we were over at their new place the other night for dinner, new mom and I were chatting in the kitchen and she said that as much as she loves being a mom, she’s getting really lonely at home alone and misses the challenge of working (though, obviously, it is summer so she wouldn’t be at her school on a normal schedule, baby or not) and being around other friends. She’s doing an amazing job with the baby (their first), and the H is truly a great, involved dad, though he’s at work everyday. He was home for the first month.
I just felt for her and want to do something to perk her up. I am working full time, we don’t live very close to them, and my H and I don’t have kids; me going and “hanging out” with her isn’t a great option obviously.
What would be a nice little gesture–sending some flowers for her to enjoy? A GC to Netflix for a month?
Red
One of the things I liked the best when I was a new mom was when friends would randomly email me to check in, send me interesting stories/links/blog interesting posts, and just otherwise make me use that “adult” brain that I was not getting to use as much when I was diapering, nursing, burping, and rocking. Another thought would be totally old-school: Send her a package of several magazines that are totally adult and fun that she might enjoy (I’m thinking Us, travel mags, Vogue, Bon Appetit, etc.) to let her know you are thinking of her and also give her some ongoing entertainment.
Ru
Maybe something that’ll get her out of the house? Like news of a concert in the park that she can take a stroller to or movie tickets or a manicure or something.
Midwest
Call and check on her. Even if it’s just to leave a message and say, “Hey, no obligation to call me back — just wanted to let you know I’m thinking of you!” The postpartum period can feel very lonely and isolating, particularly when a spouse returns to work.
If you can swing it, I LOVED, LOVED, LOVED it when a friend would stop by with food. They didn’t always stay for a long visit, but practical gestures like this are incredibly helpful when you’re busy caring for a newborn.
I second the suggestion to send her links to humorous blogs, news stories and other things that give her a two-minute break from thinking about baby 24/7.
Kim
you know what, my friend recently went through this and the thing she appreciated most was to have people come over to break up the loneliness. Even if she doesn’t live close, arrange some kind of day-trip to visit with movies & takeout once a month to catch up with your friend.
K
If you’re only 90 min away this isn’t as applicable. But for my new state job search I got a fancy-schmancy smart phone and a Google Voice account. You can get any area code you want, which also helps you look local. I have also done the “use a friend’s address” trick but the area code helps tons too.
Circe
ack. comment got eaten. get google voice, local area code. it was a big deal for me when i did the same thing. also, you don’t need a smartphone for it.
Consultant in NoVA
People move around a lot. As a result, many only have cell phones with area codes that do not match their local zip codes. I had no problem conducting a new state search with an out of town area code.
Ashley
I had to do the job hunt out of state twice, and both times, I was told, “Call me when actually move here”. When I got engaged and found out that my future husband would be moving to CA, I started sending out resumes and contacting people. We already knew his start date and location, and I was visiting on X date to look at housing, so I would love to drop in for chat, etc. Every time, “call me when you get here.” For the second round of job hunting, I came and stayed with family for about 6 weeks. I started lining up interviews prior to my arrival, and just didn’t mention that I wasn’t currently living in-state yet. My resume clearly showed work experience in CA, but I was able to arrange interviews on the spot, which helped my credibility. Once I actually got into the interview and they asked me about relocation, I explained that I could move with no problem. I landed a job and moved, just as I said I could during the interview. It did help that I was coming back to my home state, so I had experience in that state, college in that state, and family support in that state.
For me, I found that actually living in the area was crucial to my ability to get a job. Granted, I’m not senior-level yet, so companies aren’t quite willing to recruit me out-of-state yet.
AJ
Sort of related threadjack, does anyone have any insight on the Federal Reserve? I applied for a position there yesterday through the online site, and they said they’d get back to me in an automated email. Should I follow up? When should I follow up?
Irish
My husband also applied, 2 weeks ago I think, Boston office. He hasn’t heard anything.
econ prof
I would send a cover letter and resume/CV to the head of the relevant department (which you should be able to find by looking at the org chart). The officer who is hiring will also get your stuff via HR, but I wouldn’t think this will hurt (and I would mention that you applied online as well). Be as specific as you can about how your qualifications fit the job, of course. It’s a huge bureaucracy, so things tend to move very slowly. It also tends to be very formal and hierarchical.
Anonymous
It’s Federal Government, so all applications have to go through a certification process where they rate you with points, then only the top ones go to the interviewing folks. If you’re not a vet, I can only wish you luck, as vets get an automatic 5-point hiring preference, 10 if they’re disabled and became so while in the military.
Back on point, though, depending on the admin folks, this certification process can take weeks before anyone else (as in, the people who will make the decision) even get your resume. Following up, via the admin staff or the head of the agency, won’t do anything if you don’t have the points to make the cut-off.
another anon
The Federal Reserve does not use the standard federal government hiring processes– certainly not for economists at least.
E
This strikes me as false. I remember interviewing with the Fed on campus in school – not the usual government process. The Fed is only a quasi-government entity, as I understand it.
Lana Lang
Related to this – if anyone has successfully job hunted in another country, I’d love to hear thoughts. More specifically, I’m considering a jump from across the pond in London to the East Coast.
Nonny
I did this, from London to the West Coast. I did it through a headhunter in the area I wanted to relocate to. In my experience, it helps if you schedule a “vacation trip” to that area around the time you are initiating your search, to meet with the headhunter in person.
Lana Lang
That’s encouraging – did you have issues with visas etc?
Lana Lang
Also, if you are a lawyer, did you do the CA Bar before starting your hunt?
Nonny
No issues with visas, but that is because I was moving back to my home country – London was my experience abroad. For that reason as well, I can’t speak to the bar qualification issues either since I originally qualified in Canada.
If you are qualified in England and Wales, you might have an easier time transferring to Canada than the US since the law is similar and you might not have to requalify, depending on how long you have been practicing already. But on the other hand, if you look for a job in a NY or DC office of a Magic Circle firm, they might not require you to requalify right away either. I would imagine it would also depend on your practice area…
For what it is worth, when I went from North America to London in the first place, my London employer did a lot of the grunt work on getting my work permit in place. Presumably if you end up working for a reputable US firm, they would do the same.
Sorry I can’t be more helpful – I think our circumstances are a little different! But I would suggest starting with the job ads/headhunter pages in the back of the Lawyers’ Weekly and going from there.
Anon for this
I have a colleague at my international consulting firm who successfully moved from the UK to DC – he’s English and he had done an LLM in the US previously, so was qualified to take the bar exam here. However, he actually found a job before passing the bar. He started as a fellow – basically an internship – with us and when a position opened up he was a shoo-in. He was engaged (now married) to a US citizen, so no issues with visas. Also have other colleagues from other countries.
I think it helps if your professional licenses will transfer to the US, and it helps enormously if you already have or can get a visa other than through work because companies can’t always hold a position open while they wait to apply for your work visa, plus they have to affirm that they couldn’t find a qualified American for the job. Another thing that helps is basically being a superstar in your field. Barring that, your best bet is probably to work for a company in London that has offices in the US, and get transferred internally. Once you’re here in the US, it’s much easier to find a new job.
Em
I don’t totally understand the “use a friend’s address” trick. If you’re currently employed or in school, won’t it be obvious that your job or school isn’t where your address is? (Maybe not in this scenario where it’s 90 minutes away but generally.) And if you get the job, do you have to lie to everyone about how long you’ve lived there and your local ties to the area?
CW
I agree – I feel like there is an ethical issue with this, as a general rule. I’ve received this advice as well, but I don’t think that I could actually ever do this.
eaopm3
Yep – that bit of advice made me crinkle my nose up a little bit. I don’t think I could do it either because, if asked, say, how you like living in such-and-such area of town during an interview, and you had to explain WHY that address is on your resume… the explanation makes you look shady.
MsZ
Me three. It even skeezes me out when interns use their parents’ address on their resume to demonstrate local ties, when they are clearly enrolled in an out-of-state school. It seems like it’s pretty much lying.
B
I must disagree with MsZ, applying for internships is very different. I wouldn’t consider any intern applicant (unless they’re an older student who owns a house or is a permanent resident of a different state) to be lying if they list their parent’s address. Of course they go to school out of state, but it’s often easier for applicant and employer if the applicant lists an address that is more permanent than a dorm/apartment/rental house. In fact, I would actually view it as a stability factor – that person has ties to the city and would likely not have a problem with finding housing in said city during the course of their internship.
In full disclosure, I listed both “campus” and “permanent” addresses on my internship applications in school, and successfully landed three major internships.
another anon
I agree. Why not just explain in your cover letter that you grew up in the area, still have family there, visit frequently, and strongly wish to move back?
lawtalkinggirl
Many students maintain residency in their home states while they are in school. I was a resident of my home state throughout my 3 years of law school, because I intended to and did return home permanently after schooll. The main exception to this is students who obtain residency in another state in order to qualify for in-state tuition. Now can we talk about people who move away from home but feel that they maintain a “spiritual” residency in their home state such that they are somehow entitled to get a resident fishing license???
Argie
This – Undergrads are assumed to have the state residency of their parents unless they take measure to indicate otherwise. And grad students are assumed to have state residency unless they do something to establish residency in the new state, usually something other than just attending school there.
Fishing licenses on the other hand… no one in this state has been able to get one for the last 19 days (and counting), resident or not.
Jas
As a student, I always maintained residency at my parents’ address, and was strongly advised by the school to do so. I paid taxes there, voted there, etc. Not to mention, it seems more professional to use a real address than to ask employers to send correspondance to my dorm or send address updates every few months as I moved around.
Liz
I agree. I’ll be looking for jobs in another state next year, and it’ll be on the other side of the country – definitely not so close that I can travel to an interview in a day or two. I wouldn’t use a local address and risk that I actually DO get an interview, only to be unable to travel. Then I’d be caught in my lie, which seems a lot worse than having a non-local address.
Assuming you do get a job in the area one day, even if it’s not at that particular company, you don’t want your reputation as a dishonest job applicant to precede you. It’s a small world.
Different Anonymous
I think what’s often at the core of the issue is that the future employer does not want to pay relocation fees (which can be both 1) expensive–$15K or more for a single, and 2) difficult for the hiring manager to justify on a hiring requisition if there are local candidates available that have comparable experience).
Where I’ve gotten a job successfully out of town, I’ve been very clear with the future employer that I am moving/have moved and will assume all costs for the relocation. They don’t want to make their chosen candidate an offer just to have the candidate turn around and try to negotiate for a re-lo allotment. I’m in consulting tho, not law so YMMV.
Different Anonymous
It’s probably obvious, but I should add that the tighter the job market in a particular field, the less likely companies seem to be to entertain non-local resumes or interview anyone who doesn’t explicity state ‘this is my timeframe to move to this city on my own budget’.
Back in the 1999-2000 timeframe, I was being head-hunted to move both nationally and internationally with full re-lo. No one cared about where I was currently living because re-location was being built into all job listings.
2001-2002 began a period where there were so many eligible candidates that you couldn’t get your resume looked at unless you were local (or highly specialized, or at the top of your field) . So depending on the state of the market and its tolerance for non-local candidates, you may need to present yourself as a local in order to get your foot in the door if you don’t have a personal contact.
LadyEnginerd
I’ve been looking for a job in a different geographic location recently (currently in the midwest, looking in the west coast). I’ve been using a combination of googling companies/arranging for introductions to friends of friends I found via linkedin, and it has worked wonderfully. The informational interviews I arranged progressed to phone interviews with hiring managers, and now I’m starting to fly out and interview.
However, even though long lead times and far-away geographic relocations are standard in my field (companies hire PhD’s with up to a 6 month lead time prior to the intended start date), in interviews, I still got a lot of questions as to why I was moving so far from home. As soon as I said that I was trying to solve a two body problem with an SO, most of the people I spoke to nodded and then either said that was common, or spoke about how they too had to move to be near their SO. To the OP: I wouldn’t recommend mentioning your fiance being the catalyst for why you want to move situation it in a cover letter, but in my experience being upfront about it in interviews was a bit of a plus – they reacted very positively when they knew I did have ties to the area and would indeed be willing to move if they gave me an offer (I’m waiting to hear back! fingers crossed!).
Liz
A related question/hijack, if I may: Does anyone have experience with conducting a cross-country job search when you are already a partner in a law firm?
I was made partner in my small firm, but for a variety of reasons, my husband and I will be moving back to our old city in a faraway state, probably next year. I do not expect that I would be hired as a partner in a new firm. It seems a lot more likely that I would be hired as an associate and then have to start the partner-track over (sigh). But, I don’t know if I need to say something about that in my cover letters to prospective employers. I would hate to be passed over for phone calls/interviews because the firm assumes they cannot afford me, or doesn’t want to hire at the partner level.
For what it’s worth, I currently live in a state with a lower COL, so I make less money here than I likely will in the new state. So it’s not really true that a firm in the new state “couldn’t afford me.” I’ll likely be happy with whatever salary range they offer! I’m just worried it won’t ever make it that far.
Is being a partner an affirmation of my work/value as an employee? Or could it be viewed as a detriment to hiring?
Em
My firm would be more inclined to consider you for an “of counsel” position than an associate position. But we have received resumes from partners from other states looking to relocate for senior associate positions and have considered them for of counsel, with the understanding that it might be possible to transition to partner later depending on business.
Anne Shirley
In so much as the point of being a partner is bringing in work- do any of your clients operate in new state? Do you have a book of business to bring?
This sounds like the ideal case for a headhunter- someone who has a relationship with new state firms already.
Ruby
Agree that this is the perfect scenario to use a recruiter.
Consultant
I currently live in the East Coast and am interviewing for jobs in the West Coast. When my recruiters asked why I was interested in moving to the West Coast, I told them I’ve heard great things about the area but most importantly, am that excited about their company. I also mentioned I moved around while growing up and do not consider it a challenge as some people do. It’s weird to me that moving is an issue when it comes to jobs — it’s definitely not something I thought about when moving to the East Coast after obtaining a degree from the deep south.
TME
I did an out-of-state job search! Here are some of my tips:
One of the first two lines of my cover letter included something like: I am relocating to X city in the fall to be near my family. The reasons I would use “family” instead of “fiance” is that there a stigma attached to the trailing spouse. The idea is that if you followed your spouse once, you will be up and moving following him or her again. I realize Reader L’s situation is a little different. I usually put a time as to when I was moving, but again, left that flexible. Show any connection you can to that area on your resume and cover letter (organization affliation, etc.)
The second thing is that I closed my letter with: I will be in the area on DATE, and would love the opportunity to meet with you then. Just like Kat suggested. The one time I was flying to the state for a christening and sent out some resumes and had a bunch of interviews. I also called firms the week before and said, hey I sent you my resume, I’m from out of state, I would love to talk to you about working in X field, in this city. I ended up with 3-4 informational interviews, and it helped me make connections in that city. (Side story: when i was down for the christening I was looking for a summer assoc. position, which I got, but returned to the northeast to finish law school – then market crashed – no offer from original firm, I needed to start my out of state job search again. I reached out to one of those informational interview people from the first time and said – don’t know if you remember me, but i’m looking for a job… and it turned into an offer. So those informational interviews can be aces in your pocket!) I also used this approach when I was flying down to that state for the bar exam – and it worked.
The last thing – was that summer when I was down there I attended any networking event that I could think of under the sun. Bar events, CLEs, etc. I got to know a whole bunch of people. You never know who will meet!
Good Luck Reader L!
Em
This is timely! DH has an opportunity to move to London for work. Normally I would jump at the opportunity to move abroad, but my career is a concern. I am a rising 2nd year at a small firm in NYC. I do matrimonial / family law exclusively. While I love what I do, I am not sure I want to do this “forever,” and am equally not sure that I want to be tied to NYC for the rest of my life, though I am from here. I’m “new” enough to my career that I think I could essentially “start over” in a different field / city (assuming I could actually get a job) as a first year or entry level attorney without sacrificing too much. But again, that’s assuming I’d be able to get a job! My career is a concern and a priority, so we would not move unless it absolutely worked for the both of us. FWIW I’m not opposed to leaving the law and doing something in business that would eventually allow me to transition back to the US, but I hardly have any qualifications or experience for that, aside from law school summers (major record label and Big Law). Any advice / suggestions would be much appreciated!
MC
When we moved to another state so I could go to law school, my husband (who at that point was a recent law grad) initially had zero luck getting any law firms to respond. It wasn’t until he got a cell phone with a local area code that he got any responses.
And, in response to earlier comments, an address on a resume is just contact information, not a statement about where you actually reside. I don’t think it’s lying to use an address you don’t live at, any more than it would be lying to use a PO Box for your job search.
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