Thursday’s Workwear Report: Kelsey Herringbone Wide-Leg Knit Pants
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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
These wide-leg pants from Liverpool have long been a favorite of mine, but this herringbone colorway is a new one. I wear this style pretty frequently, and the fact that these pants are machine washable has always been a big selling point for me. (I hang them to dry upside down because I think I read somewhere that it prevents wrinkling? I have no idea if that’s true, but it works pretty well for me.)
Wear these with a black top or grab your favorite winter-hued jewel tone.
The pants are $98 at Nordstrom and come in sizes 14W-24W. They also come in sizes 0-16.
Sales of note for 2/7/25:
- Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
- Ann Taylor – Extra 25% off your $175+ purchase — and $30 of full-price pants and denim
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 15% off
- Boden – 15% off new season styles
- Eloquii – 60% off 100s of styles
- J.Crew – Extra 50% off all sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything including new arrivals + extra 20% off $125+
- Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 40% off one item + free shipping on $150+
These pants look good — will see if I need another size / lifestyle refresh of bottoms this winter and keep them on my shortlist.
Off-topic: has anyone used an auto-drive away service? I need to ship a car from the mid-Atlantic to the upper Midwest before winter sets in. I know it’s expensive, but the trade value is limited and a relative starting out could really use a reliable well-maintained car. I’ve googled and see that there are national companies and many others. No one I know has used one.
I really like these too – nice alternative to black pants.
I used Montway Auto Transport a couple of times to get my daughter’s car from Chicago to LA and back. It wasn’t cheap, but the service and communication were good.
I can’t remember which companies I’ve used but I’ve shipped cars a few times for relocations and it has always been totally fine. I was also able to find someone to drive the car one time. It was a side hustle for a retired airline pilot who could then fly home for free.
+1 to this. Have shipped my car x-country a few times for relocations, the only catch is being a little flexible on time, and you have to have a human being drop and pick the car up at the locations.
Auto Shipping Group dot com worked great
Just a thought: do you know any responsible 20-somethings who would do this for the fun of the trip? You pay gas, hotel, meals, and flight home. They get a free road trip.
Downside is that you’re putting miles on the car and, depending on the flight home, it could be as much as a drive away service.
I was going to say, would it be cheaper to fly the relative out to you so they can drive it back themselves (and pay for gas, a night or two in a hotel, meals, etc.)? I can understand that might not be possible if the relative can’t take time off work or can’t be away from other obligations, but it’s another option if you can make it work.
I wish! But it’s not feasible here.
I assumed that it was a relative for whom the drive would be impractical: either a 16 year old or someone with some mobility problems who wouldn’t be up for multiple 10+ hour days.
I have also used Montway and was very happy with them. I got a quote from them and then delayed responding for awhile because I was arranging other things, and they contacted me with a discount. I wasn’t expecting that, but it was nice!
My family of 4 (two elementary school age kids and 2 parents) would like to take a cruise to Alaska. Coming from the East Coast. Would love any recommendations and suggestions. We aren’t regular cruise people. Which lines, from where, how long, which locations, how much should we plan to spend, etc…
I know this will get a lot of hate but, please don’t. The west coast waters already have pollution without cruise ships dumping more into the waters. American cruises are especially crappy about holding onto waste to release into Canada.
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We went on the Regent Cruises Seven Seas Explorer from Vancouver from Seward. 7 nights. Flew home from Anchorage. It was amazing.
We did a 7 day cruise on Royal Caribbean out of Seattle with our kids, and it was ok. The food was mediocre, the ship was crowded, and the activities were super cheesy. The views were incredible, but I will never do another cruise, especially with young kids.
Disney cruises are great with kids, if you have the budget (it’s probably 5-10 times the cost of Royal Caribbean, Princess, NCL, etc.)
I’d try to spend some non-cruise time in Alaska if you can. We did two weeks there in 2014 (pre-kids), one week on land and one week on a cruise. The cruise was enjoyable but the land-based week was much better. Make sure your cruise has some scenic cruising, ideally two days of it, because you can lose one day to weather easily in Alaska. With the exception of Juneau, which is the state capital, the ports are mostly cheesy and very tourist-oriented, and honestly with kids I wouldn’t even get off the ship in places like Skagway and Ketchikan and would just take the opportunity to enjoy a less crowded ship.
I don’t know if any cruise ships going to Alaska have indoor pools (ours didn’t) but that would be a big plus with kids, so they could swim every day regardless of the weather.
I don’t understand why people say Disney is 5-10x the cost of other cruises. When I’ve looked at prices it’s more like 1.5x.
It looks like for summer cruises the price difference is not as huge, though still a lot more than 1.5x, maybe more like 3x. But at certain times it can definitely be as much as 10x. We paid $8k for a four night Disney cruise for our family and the same week could have taken for a seven night Royal Caribbean cruise with a very similar itinerary for $1,500, so yea.. the per day cost was nearly 10x.
Disney also doesn’t run the “kids sail free” promotions that other cruise lines do, which adds to the discrepancy, and I also believe they jack up prices more at spring and winter breaks.
I’ve used and recommend Princess for this itinerary. They have a long history there and good infrastructure and relationships.
There’s some law that mandates that a foreign port be visited for any voyage that that departs from a US port and returns to a US port if the ship is not U.S. flagged. This is why a Canadian city is usually on the itinerary.
We sailed out of Vancouver. We flew in a day early and spent a nice day in that city.
We did Princess in Alaska too and enjoyed it, and I know they have a long history in the state (plus for my fellow oldies the Love Boat connection is super cool) but I’m not sure it’s the best option with young kids. I think their passenger base skews elderly even by cruise standards. I’d go Disney (if it’s in budget), Royal Caribbean or NCL with kids.
Hanging upside down to dry puts the extra weight of the waistband at the bottom, which helps gently pull wrinkles out.
Co-sign.
And insofar as hanging them in the closet, a sharp dressed man I once knew hung his suit pants on a two clip pants hanger from the hem, folded lengthwise to preserve the crease. This works. No weird wrinkle where the pants are folded over a hanger. It may be that everyone else already knows this, but it was a revelation for me.
I honestly thought all dry clean only pants (men’s and women’s) were hung this way.
My 9 yr old started puberty earlier than average. Doctor says she’ll get her period at 10.5/11 and be 5’1” as an adult at most, but if we give her puberty blockers and growth hormone, she will get her period later and be taller. Would you do it? Have you for your daughter?
I got my period at 11 and my daughters around 10. We are 5-4, 5-8, and 5-4, and all were about 90-100% of height for age as children. Your family’s growth curve is much more determinative than averages.
Puberty blockers would terrify me — I would not be comfortable trying to fight genetics and any issues with compromising fertility.
For boys, people have major hang ups re height and I know several families putting their boys on growth hormones. But for a girl, 5-4 is average and being a bit shorter is IMO fine.
I would get a second opinion from a specialist and not source this from the internet. Consider issues like fertility (is it better to delay puberty or have it happen naturally?), what is causing this (endocrine disruptors?), how 5’1 compares to the rest of the family, ie genetics, and side effects.
Those ages seem unremarkable both in my family and in the my area of my SEUS city. 9 to me seems early but it can vary by family significantly.
I’d get a second opinion. I’d also be asking if there is a medical reason for the early puberty. There are some medical diagnosis that result in early puberty and the need for blockers and/or hormones. Other kids just go through puberty early. I got my period when I was 9. I’m 5′. My mom is also 5′ and my dad is about 5’3″. We’re short people. I was tested for various hormone related conditions, but there was no diagnosis to be found.
Agree with the above that this an issue for experts not the internet, but the info you’ve given doesn’t even sound that far out of the norm these days, so making a big deal of it seems like you’re at risk of causing more harm than good, both medically and psychologically. I know early puberty isn’t ideal, but there are also drug side effects and I think real potential for damage by telling her there’s something wrong with her, when it’s actually fairly common these days, for reasons that aren’t entirely understood, but certainly might be related to endocrine disrupting chemicals. If it were my kid, I’d probably focus more on making sure she had the psychological support to avoid some of the potential downsides, like being viewed as more mature than her age just because she looks older.
In our family, early is normal for us. I got mine at 11, my cousin at 9. My daughters were 10. Elementary schools and camps are very used to this, as were the kids and adults in our scout troop. The world has changed. IDK who gets a first period in high school now, but suspect it’s a kid in a family where that is normal for them.
In my family it was normal to get one’s period at 16, until me. I ended up very short and diagnosed with PCOS, which at the time was rare. Now PCOS is considered common. It’s not all genetics.
I also have PCOS and I think it is partially genetic. This is my pet theory without scientific backing, so weigh that as you will: PCOS is in some way tied to insulin resistance/metabolic dysfunction. My mom’s side of the family has a lot of issues with insulin resistance/metabolic problems/ related autoimmune disease (i.e., genetic predisposition to metabolic issues). The modern American diet and stressful/sedentary lifestyle alone creates metabolic problems, and if you’re already genetically prone to them, you’re basically DOA. So I do think my PCOS is partially genetic, partially genes triggered by lifestyle.
I should say that like many with PCOS, I’m also prediabetic. At least in the USA, prediabetes is normal and common insofar as it affects 30-40% of the adult population.
When we start our periods early, that’s associated with higher risk of type 2 diabetes even if we’re thin and not overweight. It doesn’t help if we’re also overweight.
I do not know if medical interventions to delay puberty lower the risk or not, so maybe that’s not relevant to the decision. But the idea that what’s normal shouldn’t therefore be medicalized, or that what’s diagnosable or treatable is something abnormal or uncommon, doesn’t really reflect the situation.
I know that type 2 diabetes can have genetic risk factors, but there’s no history of it in my family until my generation. Clearly whatever genes I inherited are consistent with developing an issue since I did, but it’s also not something my older relatives had to deal with? And I eat much more carefully than they ever did.
In my family, one sub-side (women on the paternal line) have this cluster in their genes. One sub-side (women on maternal line) has early puberty regardless of thin-ness (they tend to be very thin) and this is over 3+ generations, so before exposure to a lot of chemicals, etc. We just don’t now a lot, but only the PCOS person had trouble conceiving children and would up with a high-order multiple pregnancy.
I got my period at 15 and it was considered very late even back then, it’s weirder now. I think 12 is average so 11 does not strike me as bizarrely early at all.
I was also 15 and thought it would never start. But my mom got hers at 16 and her sister didn’t start until 18.
Yeah my grandmother was 17 and my mom 16 so we had a long history of late periods, and also followed the rule of thumb that it gets 1 year earlier in each generation. I hope the forward trend continues for my daughters – I think 13-14 is a good age.
If endocrine disrupting chemicals are causing early puberty, why not treat it? Especially when there are a lot of long term worse health outcomes associated with early puberty in girls.
Because treating it also has side effects? All things equal, it’s better to be a person who doesn’t have early puberty, but that’s not the question here. I genuinely don’t know what the research says about long term outcomes of using puberty blockers once you’ve started early puberty, but it’s definitely not obvious that it will make sense for all but the most extreme cases of people with some sort of obvious medical condition. It’s definitely possible that many of the negative outcomes are due to the reason you started early puberty in the first place and whether you block it or not doesn’t matter (I’m a scientist but this isn’t my field). We’d be far better off reducing exposure to endocrine disrupters!
To me “all but the most extreme cases” sounds like the kind of austerity rhetoric that insurance companies put out into the discourse to support claim denials. I agree that the right thing to do would be to weigh the pros and cons of untreated early puberty vs. treated early puberty looking at the research in this field. Even when we reduce exposure to endocrine disrupters for future generations, that won’t be enough for people already affected.
These days, early puberty is not getting your period at 10 or 11. That is regularly seen across a broad SES spectrum.
My mom was placed in the same situation as you thirty years ago. I got my period at 10. The early development was traumatic and I was pointed out for having breasts at 9.5-10 years old. At 40, I have now completed menopause and am on HRT for bone loss. I wish my mom had placed me on puberty blockers.
Get a second opinion, by all means, but be aware of the impact that early puberty might have on your daughter beyond her height.
Please go to an elementary school near you — the kids there in 4th and 5th grade are developmentally women and early puberty for some girls is the norm. I’m sorry that it was traumatic for you. I got my period at 11 and the boobs I had then never blossomed more than that. Puberty can change us immensely. Many girls gain 50 pounds over it. But we aren’t broken. Our genes are different. Some early puberty is related to being overweight vs prior generations, but in my family, you could be rail thin and you’ll still get your period early. I don’t ever like to fight mother nature because either she wins or the unintended consequences are dire (I don’t want to think of what puberty blockers do to bone density over a life time but suspect we are going to FAFO for those kids in 50-60 years if not sooner; never mind fertility impacts).
Hasn’t it already been forty years?
Maybe? But all this alarm tells me that not only do some posters not have kids, they have no idea that the uniforms at my kids’ elementary school had to come in adult sizes and that many children there (mine included) were taller than their teachers. It’s what is; it’s not cause for alarm.
Do you have kids? I have a 10.5 year old girl and she’s worn a bra for a few years now as have most of her friends. Some need it, some don’t. One of her friends is already 5’4; one is not even 48”.
My kid who was 68″ at age 10 was only friends with kids still in booster seats.
OP here. Seeing a pediatric endo. There are no medical causes or known endocrine disruptions. Endo is not making a recommendation but leaving it up to us. I’m wary of medicalizing something that shouldn’t be. Asking the hive because I’m curious as to what choices other people would make for an otherwise normal kid. I’m short. Curious if other people would actively avoid my “fate” for their kid. Curious if other people have made this decision for their own kid.
I’m very tall, probably in part because I got my period in high school and continued growing well into college, but height wouldn’t be a factor for me. There are other more important considerations.
I have a very tall kid who got her period the month she turned 11. I think that most girls don’t grow more than an inch or two max once they get their period.
I feel that when I was a grade school kid on one wanted to medicalize this, so instead it got medicalized when endocrine and metabolic complications showed up later. It honestly made me a little feel like pediatrics kicked the can down the road knowing it wouldn’t be their problem anymore by the time issues were likely to arise? I don’t know the best course of action, but I’m glad they’re taking it all a little more seriously than when I was young. And I try not to get worked up about anyone’s height, but it is a weird feeling to be the same height as I was in grade school as an adult.
*no one
Data point of 2, but girls in my family get early periods. We also easily conceived pregnancies in our late 30s with no issues, so it’s not necessarily that our systems are wired wrong or gone haywire. That is just how our bodies were programmed. It’s pretty much the norm in my generation in my family and two generations above that.
I can see that it would be less of a red flag if that was the family history! I hope the endocrinologist here took family history into account. I was an outlier in my family and did face infertility. Maybe there wasn’t really any treatment they could have done anyway if the puberty blockers aren’t all that.
My perspective is also probably skewed since I didn’t just get a period, I got a period with excruciating can’t-see-straight pain and alarming mood swings, and that was all normalized rather than medicalized too back then.
On the other hand, it sounds like prescribing Lupron could also be an example of letting later non-pediatrician doctors worry about any problems that arise!
Right? Think of what our bodies go through at menopause re bond density, heart health, brain fog. I would not want to start down the road when so little is known about longer-term downsides. Especially when not treating will have the daughter on par with many of her peers vs having a period at something like 5 when she may not developmentally be able to navigate it well.
Simone Biles is 4’8″. Being short doesn’t have to be a “fate,” and your daughter will only view it as a negative if that’s how you present it to her.
Puberty also doesn’t necessarily mean an abrupt end to all growth – I got my first period at barely 10 years old. I was under 5′ tall with no breasts to speak of. I continued to grow for the next four years and topped out at 5’7″/38C. I had two children in my late 30s with no fertility issues and now, at 45, have yet to enter even perimenopause. This fully tracks with my family history. Look at her genetics, you, her aunts, her cousins, her grandmothers. When did they all get their first periods? What are/were their heights? What was their health like in later years? If she is on track with that data, then I would not pursue any medical intervention here. If she appears to be a complete outlier, I might get a second opinion.
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I agree with all of this. I got my period at 13. I still kept growing after that, and barely had breasts at the time I got my first period. I think height predictions are very very imperfect, so I would not make my decision based on that.
I have a pretty strong “don’t mess around with Mother Nature” mentality when it comes to these things.
Absent a medical cause/endocrine disruptor, I probably wouldn’t. Maybe this is a weird way to think about it, but if this is just how things run in your family, I wouldn’t want to send the message that normal variations among us need to be corrected. I know it’s not the same, but I’ve thought about this in terms of other cosmetic enhancements – if I get a nose job but then my daughter inherits my nose, how can I honestly encourage her to accept it? We’re not going to escape the genetics so then we’re just setting up the next generation to need to do the same thing or risk feeling flawed.
For what it’s worth, I’m very tall but have friends ranging from 4’10 – 6′ and while our various heights were all a topic of conversation and maybe the cause of some shopping anxiety, I don’t think anyone has cared much about it after the age of maybe… 20? I have several friends who are in the 4’10-5’1 range and they’re accomplished, professionally successful, happily partnered (if they want to be) people.
I would be inclined to do it. My BFF, who is a pediatrician, put her son on growth hormone when he was tracking to be very short-so height specific issues only. In this case, I understand these ages are not too unusual for puberty but it is on the early side and I would be concerned about the height and future considerations-including weight and the early side of menopause as was referenced above. It’s not a long term use of medication. That said, I haven’t faced this issue with my own kid, and perhaps your family doesn’t have genetic considerations related to weight.
Growth hormone is relevant to more than just height though. My husbands’ cousins also had their son on it, but it wasn’t just because they didn’t want him to be short. There are all kinds of medical issues (bone density, etc) that lack of growth hormone can cause or exacerbate.
Definitely lack of growth hormone is a serious medical issue that needs treatment.
Ugh. Boy parents always do this. But they make a fresh batch of swimmers each time. The long tail on doing this for a girl with no health problems seems like you’re borrowing trouble.
“Boy parents always do this.”
Please, can you not? I’m a boy mom and I wouldn’t do this. Kiddo is fed healthy enough food, gets some exercise, and the chips are going to fall where they may.
I think it’s fine to ask a board of educated professional women for advice on this, obviously you’re also getting medical input. Personally I would let nature do its thing. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being short, as someone very tall, sometimes it sounds nice. I’m not into medical intervention for things that are common and well within the range of normal.
Personally, I wouldn’t be inclined to unless there were other medical issues. I’m 40. I got my period at 11 and am pretty short, and honestly have never thought of either of those things as unusual or negative (well, except when I’m trying to reach things on high shelves in the supermarket). To me, this seems like normal human variation, not something to fix.
I will say that with some hindsight into adulthood – I actually have some hormonal irregularities (not PCOS), which have caused some problems since my mid 30s, but the multiple excellent specialists I have seen about these cannot tell me what caused them, so I would question the idea that problems like this may have been prevented by puberty blockers or any other medical treatment in childhood. I don’t think modern medicine has the research to answer that one way or the other right now. If new science develops that does show that, I would reconsider my opinion.
I got mine at 11 and topped out at 5’2”. Nothing wrong with either of those things! Being short is fine. Buying pants is annoying, but otherwise I have no complaints. I hate the idea that shortness is a bad thing, for women or men.
Coming to add, because of some comments about earlier puberties these days, my mom also got hers at 11, grew to 5’6”, and she is in her 70s.
Same. My mom died at 81, from cancer. After seeing a family member battle osteopinia and then osteoporosis, I’d not expose a daughter to anything that might limit her bone development and estrogen is a positive for it.
I’m you’re mom.
I was wearing a bra by 8 and got my period by 9 in the late 80s. It was fine. I wouldn’t use meds to disrupt a natural process.
I’d also be worried that all the discussions and possible laws on gender-affirming care would affect the course of treatment, my understanding is they use puberty blockers often for trans kids.
Co-sign your last piece. That area is so politically toxic that those kids may not get accurate medical information or be told of any yellow or red flags (and I fear that the data isn’t in yet but will all be so sad and negative in a few decades as these kids become adults).
I wonder the same thing. I really feel for the families who are having to make this choice, but I don’t know. It seems SO incredibly risky over the long term.
100%
Not for much longer. The house of cards is falling and the drugs have been effectively banned for that purpose in Finland, England, and several other European countries due to the high risk of devastating side effects and the lack of efficacy.
This is scientifically nonsense, supported by political nonsense.
There’s scientific evidence that puberty blockers are safe and effective in both cis and trans kids and prevent gender dysphoria in trans kids.
Not one single word of what you just said is true.
Unfortuantaly, the largest study done to date, lead by Hilary Cass of the UK’s NHS, found that the evidence for puberty blockers is, at best, weak.
https://cass.independent-review.uk/
i would not cite the Cass report for anything scientific. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/13/opinion/cass-report-trans-kids.html
The NYT op-ed by Polegreen is just that: an op-ed written by an advocate with zero scientific expertise and an axe to grind. One of the strengths of the Cass report is precisely that Cass is not a specialist/advocate in that area, but a scientist who is qualified to impartially evaluate the strength of the evidence. It’s a feature, not a bug.
All of the American criticism of the Cass report boils down to a tantrum that it doesn’t come out the way advocates wanted it to. For example, one American criticism is that the Cass report looks only at scientific studies and not guidelines promulgated by American medical societies. A review of the scientific literature SHOULD exclude practice guidelines that are not scientific research. If practice guidelines were included in the review the whole review would be suspect.
+10000 to Anonymous at 3:36. Citing an op-ed written by an activist in no way negates a formal scientific review of evidence (not guidelines – evidence).
what about a methodological critique: https://gidmk.substack.com/p/the-cass-review-intro
or is anyone presenting an informed opinion “an activist with an axe to grind”?
I would get a second opinion. Is this her ped or a specialist?
5’1” is short but not unhealthy. I wouldn’t treat a non-problem.
This. Your daughter is hella normal and not an outlier.
I think for me it would depend on family history. If women in your generation got their periods at 15-16, this is a dramatic change and seems like something going wrong and I’be more inclined to use blockers. If you got your period at 12 or so, then this seems pretty expected (I’ve heard it gets earlier by 1 year each generation, on average).
Getting a period at 11 and being 5’1 is very very normal?
Right? I almost wonder if this is a tr0ll.
I got my period at age 11 (one month past my 11th birthday) in the early 1990s and I’m 5’9″ because that’s my genetics. My mom also got her period around then and she’s 5’6″. 5’1″ is not an unusual height and 11 is a completely normal age for periods.
No, I would not. Puberty blockers are subject to a lot of lawsuits for their effects on bone density and the effects on the developing brain are still unknown. These lawsuits have been going on for decades and our only accelerating in recent years with the drugs’ new experimental uses in large populations of kids for long-term use. If you do go this route, it should be VERY short-term.
Definitely get a second opinion.
https://www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/
Wow, that article is enough to convince me that the answer would be absolutely not.
I read it for the first time several years ago and it was so sobering.
It worries me that this topic may be so heavily politicized at this point that’s hard to sort out, but it’s definitely a possibility that the “cure is worse than the disease” (the intervention has more risks than leaving it alone).
I wish it sounded as though the endocrinologist had mapped out the choices more thoroughly. I know there’s still a choice to make, but it’s unclear to me what the doctor thinks the risks of doing nothing may be and what the risks of intervening may be, and what the best and worse case scenario are on both paths.
The article I posted above is from 2017, before the drugs were as heavily used as they are today, in case that helps. It is specifically related to precocious puberty. If you want something more current, check out the Cass review.
Oh, wow, that is a sobering article. I’ve long thought that drugs are not tested enough on women (especially women across the age spectrum, as 19 is not 39 is not 79). Talk about a long tail.
Also, absent any really obvious condition, a cause is not likely to be identified for this. A lot of researchers are exploring how endocrine disrupting chemicals lead to early puberty in girls, but once the exposure has happened, there’s not much you can do anyway. We still don’t understand all that much about which chemicals are the most damaging and which ones can be avoided. There are some steps you can take for kids, like avoiding microwaving in plastics, that are likely to reduce exposure, but again, a lot is poorly understood.
I did this with my daughter. It was a perfect solution.
To what problem though? Plenty of young girls use deodorant, sports bras, and menstrual products. I don’t love having a period or cramps, but periods are not a sign of illness. Neither is being average to short in height (and looking at a lot of boy parents on this).
I think you should trust medical professionals. A lot of commenters here are screaming that early puberty is normal or natural, it’s not. The truth that puberty has been getting younger and younger due to chemicals and food is a scary reality to face but we shouldn’t pretend it’s not true.
This is absolutely true, but the drugs to halt puberty carry long-term side effects that can be extremely damaging. We’re talking 21-year-olds with osteopenia and unknown effects on brain maturation at a time of critical brain development.
I disagree. Medicine is constantly evolving, this wasn’t an option 30 years ago, and the long term consequences aren’t known. Medical input tells you the options available today but they can’t make a decision for you.
This is untrue – Lupron has been prescribed for precocious puberty since at least 1993.
That is barely 30 years ago and it’s still a new concept without long term study.
As someone who’s been on Lupron for breast cancer treatment, there is literally no way I would put a child through those shots unless it was a major, major issue. Getting your period at 11 is not that. I got mine at 11 nearly 40 years ago. I was not the first of my friends.
Read that article posted above, it proves the experimental point.
Precocious puberty isn’t what the Op’s daughter has, though.
The article discusses that prescribing puberty blockers to help girls grow taller is a potentially very harmful off-label use. Regardless of whether the doctor used the words “precocious puberty” or not, that’s effectively what he/she is treating by promising a taller height and later period.
+1 million to medicine is constantly evolving. Breast cancer chemo and radical mastectomies were normal decades ago and was brutal. Guess what? It was not better and caused harm vs current treatments. They used to remove RIBS and muscles.
The medical professionals don’t have the best track record here. Remember when they gave high dose synthetic estrogens to trigger puberty to prevent girls at risk of being tall from achieving full height? They justified it based on psychosocial considerations like being bullied for being tall or having a harder time finding a spouse.
What the OP is describing is still within the range of normal, and has been for several generations.
I am 36, got mine at 10 and reached 5’4”, four inches taller than my mother who had hers at 11 and is 5’0. Neither of us were premies, if that matters. These seem like in-normal-range stats especially given that the trend is earlier date of first period. I would consider getting a second opinion from a GP you trust.
I got my period when I was 11. Both of my daughters were 10 years old. I’m 5’0″ tall and my daughters are 5’2″ and 5’3″ (their dad is much taller than my dad so maybe that gave them an extra couple of inches.) My mom was 12 when she got hers and is 5’3″. I’m often the shortest person in the room, but I don’t feel like that has held me back at all. I am a lawyer, happily married, with three kids. I sometimes would worry about dressing so that I didn’t look like a child and have to get most of my clothing tailored, but it’s not a big deal.
If my choice is unknown long-term potentially devastating medical consequences from taking a powerful drug or buying petite clothes and taking pants to the tailor, I am picking the latter.
Seriously. How is this even a serious question?
I’d be leery – I don’t think that’s early enough to count as precocious puberty, right? It’s early but not shockingly early. But I’m not a doctor.
My kids (girls) were using and needing deodorant by 8 and they were far from alone. It’s not precocious when it’s easily 25%+ of all girls.
I am 4’10. I was always at the 5% growth curve as a child and never really had a growth spurt. So 5’1 sounds tall to me! My life is happy and successful, and I have dated tall guys. Being short can be really great in many situations, such as fitting more comfortably into the ever-shrinking airplane seats. The only real impact is that sometimes I need to stand on a shelf at the grocery store to reach something. And I need to buy petite sizes or have clothes altered, which has been fine. Many stores still have petite sizes.
I will say if shortness is accompanied by size 4 feet, it is difficult to find adult shoes. Many brands that formerly made size 4 have now stopped carrying size 4 which is quite annoying in a time of more size inclusivity.
I can’t speak to the early puberty effects.
If I wasn’t sure I was well enough informed or about the doc’s advice, I’d get a second opinion. I’d also make sure my daughter hears the risks and benefits, has an opportunity to talk with the doctor and ask questions, and if it would be reasonable to go either way, defer to her.
No way – a kid that young can’t possibly fully understand the risks of things like osteoporosis and impacts on reproductive health decades down the line. This is a parental decision.
Being a parent doesn’t bestow magical wisdom, almost every adult I know has medical problems because of bad parenting.
“Almost every adult [you] know has medical problems because of bad parenting.”??! Seriously? Yikes. This is the kind of overbroad statement that scares me as a parent. You literally cannot win apparently.
Being a parent doesn’t bestow magical wisdom, but a 9 year old is unquestionably too young to make informed decisions about something like this. We’re not talking about a 16 year old who is a semi-adult even if not of legal age. This is a decision that parents should make in consultation with doctors, and anyone who resents their parents for not allowing them to make major medical decisions at age 9 needs therapy.
This was me. Early puberty, period at 10, 5’1″ now. Being short is not that bad, particularly for women.
Of course that was some time ago and I have no experience with puberty blockers and growth hormones, but I would be hesitant and research like crazy before making that decision for your daughter.
I think everyone wants what they don’t have, but as a 5’11” woman I’ve always envied petite women. I’ve never dated a guy who as more than inch or two taller than me.
This. I’m 5’10”. I hate being tall. I’d love to be 5′ 1″.
I used to be 5’9” but lied about it to seem shorter, and now that i am older iI have shrunk to 5’8”. It’s not that tall but feels tall when most women are shorter, when clothes are typically made for women 5’6” and under, and all my short girlfriends married the 6’4 and over.
As a doctor, I am kind of shocked to read this post, describing a developing girl well within the range of normal.
I think it’s a tr0ll who also added a few follow up comments.
AAP identifies early puberty as a possible issue if there is bre@st budding before age eight. Average age of puberty is also identified by AAP as 12 which means 11 is only very slightly below average. A pediatric endo is not going to be making such off base recommendations.
Yes, I think it’s our resident anti-woman bridge-dweller.
I absolutely would not, due to concerns about longterm and/or serious side effects. Being a short adult woman is not a problem, imo. I do understand that experiencing puberty early could be tough, so I’d focus my efforts on helping and supporting her in every way possible through that transition.
Late comment but it really sounds like it comes down to genetics. I got my period at 10 and was about 5′. However, I continued to grow to 5’9″ by the end of high school. My sister got hers probably around 12 and is 5’6″. We’re both taller than my mom but our dad is around 6′.
One of my mom friends cried and cried when her daughter got her period at age 11, when she was 4’11” tall. Friend said “daughter will never be taller than 4’11” and it’s my fault” (we can make ourselves feel guilty about everything.
Daughter just graduated from college. She’s about 5’5”.
as someone who has taken Lupron, there is no way on gods green earth I would put a child of mine through it short of an imminently life threatening condition. Frankly I would consider it medical abuse and cannot believe a doctor is suggesting it.
Why? What was bad about lupron?
https://www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/
I am evaluating my wardrobe in advance of a 2-3 week federal court trial in the PNW next month. I have the following suits I plan to rotate: black, light gray, navy pinstripe, and subtle navy tweed (skirt only, others have pants too). Would love input on a few things: 1) Everything fits, is a classic cut, and in good shape, but is all from 2019 or earlier and I think I’d like something new to mix in. What color/cut/pieces would you look for? Charcoal seems like a safe bet, and pantsuit seems more current. I would love a forest green tweed pantsuit (and would get wear out of it as separates) but is that too out there for a jury trial? 2) Would you do a sheath dress with nonmatching blazer in this context? 3) I’m thinking classic black and taupe pumps will be workhorses here, and may mix in loafers (black leather and light pink suede). Other thoughts on footwear?
Thanks in advance – planning potentially 3 weeks of court appropriate but not super repetitive outfits feels stressful!
Those colors all sound great. Forest green is a little out there but it really depends what your role is and what you are trying to project. As for a pantsuit vs a sheets dress and blazer – I’d be inclined to get the latter since I think it will get much more use and likely more comfortable. Good luck!
Sheath dress with blazer are fine in this context. I would skip the forest green. And the pink suede loafers.
Thoughts after many trials – I am always in favor of as many pants as possible, and skirts or dresses that are firmly to one inch above the knee. Mostly, you never know when you are going to need to squat down or grab something and doing a princess squat is never fun. Generally, I’d focus on your clothes being put together but generally unmemorable. Shouldn’t look like a funeral, but there is a level of formality with federal court. On shoes, I lean towards block heels, as they don’t normally have a metal shank that sets off the metal detector. Chloe block heels historically have been fine for the metal detector and not obviously designer – I’d add in a pair of navy or cognac block heels for variety in the outfits. It’s a know your area, but loafers are probably hit or miss. Green pantsuit is going to be a tough call – if its a bankruptcy trial probably fine, it would really have to be the right one for a jury. I’d probably get another two or three suits – classic grey wool, class navy wool, and then maybe consider with a nicer texture.
All depends on who you’re representing and what kind of trial.
Thanks for the responses! I hear you all on the green suit, that was really wishful thinking since this is a jury trial. Turns out I do also have a charcoal skirt suit in the back of my closet which like everything else is old but super classic. I think I’m going to have it nicely tailored and then focus my energy on having great shoes. I like the idea of navy block heel pumps. I really want to incorporate loafers as some of my pants are hemmed for flats, and to give my feet a break from heels. I think very classic tan leather, no lug soles or hardware, will be ok and better than ballet flats for sure. Totally agree that formal and forgettable is the goal for clothes here.
On shoes, does anyone have experience with Inez? Are they actually as comfortable as they claim?
I have no further advice on shoes, other than to say that comfort and a current style are important.
But what about tops and jewelry? Long sleeved shirts, so you can take off the blazer. Dressy fabrics, interesting details, opaque, etc. And jewelry–the classics are always great, but think about what you have. And a good tote bag!
Late reply: I think pants suits are more modern and I suspect you’d get more future wear out of them. But the jury isn’t going to care as long as you’re dressed professionally.
I did a three week jury trial in San Francisco earlier this year. I wore both a dress-with-nonmatching-blazer outfit, and a forest green suit. No one clutched their pearls. I think it’s wise to start as conservative and unobjectionable as possible, but as the weeks wear on, you can definitely expand the repertoire. I always wear exactly the same makeup, lipstick, and often the same jewelry, which I think helps project the same kind of solidity and reliability that men get just by virtue of being men. My thought was that I want them to look at me, not at my makeup or jewelry.
Does anyone have a really well made mechanical pencil they love and would recommend? I’m doing a project where pencil is much better than pen, and love the precision of a mechanical pencil over a yellow No. #. However, the mechanical pencils available to me at work are just junk, and I’m willing to invest in a good model if it comes with an endorsement. Appreciate any “leads” (groan).
I’ve only ever liked pentel mechanical pencils. I still prefer the older ones in a medium blue case but have a pale metallic pink one from recent years that is good too.
Oh and I vastly prefer click erasers to block ones. Like these https://a.co/d/6KFLkv5
Forever my favorite fidget toy.
Staedtler
Sorry, hit submit too soon. Check out Staedtler, or there are some Japanese-made pencils that are pretty nice.
My favorite pencil is the Pentel Twist Erase with 0.9 lead. The barrel and eraser is a little thicker and I love that I can get it with a red barrel so no one ever takes my pencil at work.
The 0.9 lead is key for me because I write hard and anything less tends to break.
Leuchtturm1917 for pencils and pens. Totally solid. You can thank me later!
I wish you had just said that… rabbit hole here
I know, right? I have had two architects spot my stuff and have pen envy. They are now customers of Leuchtturm. The note pads and little notebooks are fabulous too.
I use a Lecchturm dot grid journal for my annual planner and have them going back to 2016ish. But haven’t bought the pens or pencils before….
I have a Cross mechanical pencil that has a hidden eraser; it’s gorgeous and works great. It actually broke a couple years ago and they repaired it for free (I believe I had to pay for postage but I appreciated the option vs tossing it).
Since my DDs have appropriated all my necklaces, I am looking for some new ones for work. Cheap ($30 or under?) and I prefer silver tone to gold but can do both. Any trends to jump on or avoid? TIA!
I’d look for vintage to get better quality at that price point.
Do you need shorter ones so your boobs don’t mess them up? I love like a double Pearl strand to avoid that.
I think she’s talking about her kids, not her boobs, but I had the same take when I first read this. Not the best abbreviation in this case (and honestly always one I’ve thought was sort of stupid, though it’s now so common that I don’t usually think about it).
Hahahhahahaja omg such a different question Nevermind disregard my comment
I had a mental image of the bustline with a “Hamburgler” style mask on stealing necklaces ha ha!
I thought the same haha.
+1
As an IBTC member this interpretation would never have dawned on me, but it made me laugh.
+1 Amazing!!
Banana Republic Factory has some nice looking things at that price point right now.
posting here bc the moms page is a bit younger –
im hosting a slumber party for my tween’s birthday and would like to give a non-junk party favor. Any ideas? Trying to stay away from “beauty” related items like nail polish. I know we can skip the favor (and might) but it can be fun to receive. I just really hate the useless plastic trash, so Im hoping to give something useful. Thanks!
keychains, little coin purses, glow sticks (yes they’re plastic trash but at least they get thrown out right after they’re used), fun pens, notepad with each guests initial on top
Cute PJs or a fun pillow are the standard slumber party favor where I am.
Fun Post-It’s?
What about lip balm? Does that still count as beauty? I think everyone likes lip balm especially if you live somewhere with winter
We got matching pajamas for my daughters and her friends.
A Starbucks gift card.
Sunglasses? Cute cactus?
Homemade cocoa powder mix in a glass jar? Small flashlight or multitool? Warm cozy socks?
Mini squishmallows are really popular with tweens, and so are blind box figurines like Sonny Angels. Those might be more than you want to spend – $10-15 apiece. Neither is useful, but they will likely be kept and cherished.
It always gets repeated that the moms page skews young but I’m not sure that’s actually true…
I know, it always makes me laugh. When the site launched it was mostly moms of babies, but that was literally a decade ago and those babies are tweens now. I think there aren’t many people there with teens, but MANY people have kids in the 10-12 age group.
I responded above, but I also had the same thought. I have tweens and teens and post on the moms board. :)
I’m
I don’t think so, I think they just want to post here because there’s more people
+1
They get a ton more responses here.
The Moms s i t e has been down for two days, for whatever it’s worth. Comments take a lot longer to post there as well.
Really? It hasn’t been down for me at all. This site was down earlier this week, I think Tuesday?
It’s been working fine for me too.
as far as i know the moms site has been up since tuesday — please let me know if not; a screenshot of what you’re seeing would be hugely helpful. kat at corporette dot com. thursday’s post has 28 comments over there and zero comments in the moderation queue.
Weird! I’m getting a “malicious firewall” message when I post over there Kat
broad question – are you located in the US? sometimes we block IP addresses from certain countries if legitimate traffic is low. i don’t THINK we did that on tuesday, but maybe? if you could send me a screenshot to send to my host that would be hugely helpful (you can answer the Q in the email if you prefer). thank you for reading!
This – my comments go to m0d for most of the day there, even when using a regular name/email. I have never been able to ask/answer questions there.
I also get the firewall message (in the US) but only when I’ve been using the site a lot. Searching and combing through search results particularly seems to trigger it. It’s definitely IP address-based because when my computer on wifi gets the firewall message, I can still access the site on my phone using cellular data. It goes away after a few days and then I can access it again as normal. I avoid searching on the moms page for this reason. It doesn’t happen to me on regular Corporette.
wow, thank you for letting me know — i’m not sure if this is part of the caching problems we’re having in general or an exciting new problem. i’ll ask my tech team.
Just sent, thanks Kat!
Woah!! Anon @ 2:09 pretty much nailed what is happening to me (and explains why I could load it on my phone when I was at the office earlier).
Those pouches with initials on them are really big with the tweens in my area.
Cute notebooks? I amuse myself with sparkly ones from Blue Sky’s Good Vibes collection.
people post stuff like this on the mom’s page all the time. matching pjs, matching slippers, hair ties, belt bags, fun pillow case or luggage tag or toiletry case (to use for future sleepovers), flashlights/book light
For recent sleepover party favors we have done:
– poi balls (got them on Amazon, girls played with them outside at the party then took them home); you could also do light up frisbees or something like that. It was really cool to see the girls play with these at night with music playing outside!
– hairbrush (you could even personalize), claw clips and hair elastics- who doesn’t need more of those?
– we did ice cream sundaes with color change spoons and plastic cups; I washed after and the girls took them home
– girls made a “candy fruit salad” and were each sent home with a bag of the leftovers. I know you said non-candy, but if the kids insist on this TikTok craze you may as well get it all out of your house!
– the girls decorated frames for the instax photos they took against the “Photo Booth” we set up and took them home
Not all the same party; I just happen to have a lot of tween sleepovers :).
oh! Or you could have the invite be matching PJs. Or if you are insane they could the dye shirts or paint them then take them home. ;)
my 12 year old and her friends would LOVE a candy salad.
As an aspiring middle grade novel author – books! Always books!
Mad Libs. There is even a slumber party edition.
Vera Bradley Outlet has some good options under $5. Little coin pouches, ID keychains, luggage tags, notebooks, etc.
a good lip gloss like the laneige lip sleep mask? kat posted about some place that sold minis, 4 for $15 or something? it isn’t beauty so much as self care (my tween still gets massive chapped lips every winter) but it’s also a recognizable brand if they’re into sephora.
love someone else’s idea about fun pillow, i think michaels had donut pillows for $5 the last time i was there. plus it’s useful if kids forget their own pillow or want multiple.
matching PJs is also adorable but man doesn’t that get expensive? i’m a boy mom so they just kind of throw a printed-out gift card at each other to acknowledge it as a birthday party and move on. (my kid hasn’t been to a lot of slumber parties but we’ve never gotten favors.)
If it’s a b’day party and you get some old navy PJ pants x 5-6 girls it’s no big deal.
I said that and where I am slumber parties aren’t something you invite 20 kids to, more like 4-8 close friends. Getting Target PJs for that number of kids isn’t a huge expense.
Something edible is always the winner. Everything else is just future garbage.
Pretty notebooks and pens?
A recent birthday favor was a glass tumbler with a lid and straw that the hostess personalized with each girl’s name, I think just a vinyl sticker but super cute. If you have time, I’d look on Etsy!
Does anyone have an EV that is not a Tesla? How did you choose it and how do you like it?
We have a 2013 Nissan Leaf bought used in 2018 when one Prius gave up. We have a 2022(?) Ioniq 5 bought new when the other Prius gave up. We love them both. The Leaf is my commuter / around town car. The Ioniq is my spouse’s work car and the family road trip car. Our criteria for the Ioniq (really, for making the leap to two EVs) were that we needed one big enough for family trips and 200+ miles on a single charge.
Audi Q4. Choose it as I previously had a A4 and like Audis. Happy with it so far.
Everybody in my city has a Leaf and I hear very good things about them.
I have a 2019 Leaf as my commuter and it’s perfect for that. I’m not into cars so I wanted something basic and reliable, and so far it has been. The basic Leaf doesn’t have as large of range as some other cars but it’s fine for my purposes (office three days a week plus some errands around town; I end up charging about once a week or so). My husband has a Rivian (fits both our 75 lb greyhound and our baby in separate rows, plus the stroller) and we love it. We leased it as our dog is getting up there in years so we may not need to accommodate both dog and baby for many more years. We have solar panels on our house for charging.
I like my Chevy Bolt. We leased it and then bought it when the lease ended. It is an around town/commuter car – it can go around 120 miles before needing to be recharged.
We have a Nissan Leaf as our around-town/commuter car and I love it. It’s reliable, surprisingly roomy, and the range works well for the driving we actually need. We charge it at my office like once every week or two.
We have a Volkswagen ID.4. We really like it. Mileage is good, been driving it for 3 years and had really positive experiences.
Also, there are built in seat massagers.
My roommate has a Polestar and it’s soo, so nice inside. And it drives like a rocket. And you’re not supporting Musk, which is big for me!
I bought a Rivian truck because I wanted a small truck. I was on the waiting list for it since early on based on a friend’s recommendations. I like that it’s very comfortable, that you can load most Costco trips into the “frunk’, and the gear tunnel is a great place to stash all the things you want to haul around with you but don’t want getting in your way. Having a small truck bed has proven so useful.
Any tips for a 4-5 day trip to Dominica? No kids, diving and hiking focused, love hole-in-the-wall great food.
What tops are you wearing to work this fall? I’m not loving anything at my usual stores and am also wanting to step up my polish level so I’m looking to do a refresh. Ideal style would be streamlined, modern-classic, comfortable. I’m mid-30s, size 12.
Budget would be ~$100-$200 per top.
I refreshed my blouses during the BR Factory Labor Day sale and was more happy with most of them than I anticipated. A few fit oddly so I returned them, but I kept the majority. Under your price point, although they definitely hit the modern-classic, streamlined, comfortable target.
If you want splurgier, consider Amour Vert.
Elie Tahari and Saint and Sofia.
Check out Modern Citizen for interesting necklines, The Reset for silk blouses and light sweaters, and Aday’s technical silk Something Borrowed shirt.
I am leaning into cashmere tees. I don’t guess they are on trend but my style is mostly classic with the teeniest tiniest edge. Current favorite is a cream colored one with wide leg gray pants, a cream and orange scarf and pointy flats. Or head to toe black of same but with interesting shoes and earrings.
Fabric / sewing / craft people:
If I need to get 30-40 pieces of basic fleece in solids or kid-friendly patterns, a yard long by a yard long, can I get them in bulk from anywhere? It’s for a kids project making no-sew baby blankets. I live in a city, so I am not sure that any one fabric store would have as much as I need.
Literally any fabric store will have what you need. Make sure its a fabric store though quilting shops typically don’t have fleece
The fabric stores in my town seem to have a whole aisle dedicated to fleece.
If you want to order, there are tons of fabric stores online — just do a search and you’ll pull them up.
Joanne
Since they are for baby blankets, I would try to get very reputable fabric, preferably oekotex certified or similar.
The dyes and other treatments used for plastic fabrics can be toxic, ref the toxic air steward uniform problems.
The size on the bolt will usually be 50-60″ and then they’ll cut whatever yardage you want. So if you have them cut 1 yd off the bolt, it will be 3′ x 60-ish inches. So, if you are okay not having them perfectly square, you could get two pieces out of a yard of fabric. And then you only need 15-20 yards of fabric. A bolt of fabric will have 8-15 yards on a bolt, so 15-20 yards of fabric is only a couple of full bolts.
As other commentors have said – Joann’s will have MANY bolt of fleece (its mostly fleece and quilting cotton these days), so you’ll be fine.
When it comes to fabric, this would barely register on the “bulk” side of things. You’re find going to a regular hobby/craft big box store.
*You’re going to be fine with a regular hobby/craft big box store.
31-year-old 2L trying to figure out family planning because my fiancé and I want to have at least two kids. I’d love to get you ladies’ thoughts on timing as I start my law career.
I’m doing Big Law next summer so the plan/hope is to do that post-grad, and I’d love to have a long career there if at all possible—i.e., as of right now, I’m not just planning to leave after a year or two. To the extent it’s relevant, the firm I’ll be at is one of the big ones (think Skadden, Cravath, Kirkland type firm) but in a smaller office/mid-sized market. I’m doing litigation and would love to clerk at some point, but I’m willing to give up clerking if it would be disruptive to my early career to do a clerkship as well as several maternity leaves.
I understand that, on paper, big law maternity leave is excellent. But what are the unspoken rules? How disruptive will it be to take maternity leave twice in my first few years as I try to establish my reputation? What times are better than others?
I know people who have had babies during law school, but my fiancé and I are doing long distance so I’m pretty hesitant to do that since I’d be going through pregnancy and newborn stage alone!!
I’d have kids while you are junior enough that no one truly needs you for anything. Maternity leave as a partner with my own clients was basically like any other work day.
OR I’d clerk while pregnant and take the next year off and then try to clerk again (repeat).
Do you need to be in BigLaw for the $ for loans? You won’t be able to hire enough nannies or get enough daycare to make it work long term, but I’d just keep having the kids you plan to at BigLaw b/c anything but a clerkship will likely pay worse and be inflexible. BigLaw worries about headlines. [I hate that I’m even typing this, but unless you are a rock star, your prospects are limited and no one should plan on even 4 years at BigLaw. If people ever rely on you, you need to deliver or train your underlings, but only then might you have a future.]
Childcare will be so expensive that losing a year of clerking if you have a year of work lined up might make sense, financially.
the hardest part for you will be keeping up with your class – like if you are out for 6 months x2 in a 2-3 year span, that is a big % difference in actual experience vs. class year for a 4th year associate.
Obligatory NAL but I’d say it’s really, really hard to estimate how all-consuming having a baby is, as well as how all-consuming a super demanding job is. To try and do both at the same time, when you’re establishing your career, is going to be difficult. I think it’s OK to consider the following- what would going 100% into your career for 2-3 years post graduation look like? What does that do for your fertility and trade offs of being a 35, 36 year old mom? If that doesn’t feel right to you, what is your career plan B if it’s difficult to juggle biglaw as a first time mom? Are you OK with that path? When you’re 50, which path would you be happier with? And I say this, because I think there’s this temptation to think plan A (new career big law and baby) will work out if we plan enough or try enough, but the reality is both paths have so many factors that are just outside your control.
Not what you really asked, but I’m on the other side of this with my 4 kids in elem and middle school. I just turned 41. I’d have the babies ASAP and just rip off the band-aid. There is never a good time. Do it when you are young and get behind your class; do it when you are older and you’ll be more tired. i had my first when I was 28 (got pregnant at 27) and live in an area where this is quite young. Some of my kids have friends that were born to a 40+ year old parent. i had my 4th at 35 and was a “geriatric” pregnancy.
What does your partner do for a living? Could it be their time to lean back and be the primary caretaker? What would your childcare situation look like (nearby family? daycare? nanny? SAH parent?).
I also have four, first at 28 and last at 37. In retrospect, I am a big fan of having kids sooner rather than later because — even besides your energy level, the risk of fertility issues, etc — you get more TIME with your kids. Part of me will always be a little sad that I’ll have 9 fewer years with my youngest than with my oldest. Before you have kids they are a kind of nebulous entity, but once they are here you love them so much and want as many years as possible to see them grow and build that relationship.
I had my only child as a 30-year-old 2L. I am now 47 and the mom of a college freshman. I wouldn’t want to have done it any older, despite the fact that most of my friends with kids the same age are a few years older than I am. Ideally I’d have had her at around 28, but humans plan and biology laughs.
On the other hand, I knew I wasn’t ready to be a mom in my 20s, and have zero regrets about waiting until my mid-30s to conceive (and am a young mom in my academic circles, where many people have kids in their late 30s or even early 40s). I know I only wanted one child, which took the pressure of a bit and I do think since OP wants two it makes sense to start earlier than 35, but just a perspective that people don’t always wish they’d done it earlier. No judgment on anyone who has kids younger but personally I feel like I’m a much happier, more present mom because I waited until I was financially secure, settled in my marriage, and had had years of single adult life and married DINK to focus solely on myself and then myself and my partner.
Agree that it is much easier to take maternity leave when you are earlier in your career– no matter what size the firm. Another associate at my firm had taken maternity leave when she was 1-2 years out of law school, and I think that kind of annoyed people at the time tbh (though they wouldn’t say it out loud), but by the time she was up for partner, her career had rebounded, she was able to make travel/trial schedules work, and her kids were in elementary school.
In contrast, I took maternity leave around when I would have been up for partner, which did not seem to annoy anyone, which I’d been at the firm for so long. However, people were hesitant to involve me in bigger cases or projects with more responsibility while I was pregnant and when I first came back. I was also managing typical sick baby issues with court appearances and travel.
As other posters will probably tell you, maternity leave at big firms is generous, but that isn’t really the issue for most new parents. It’s more balancing the time commitments with the job with children when you get back from leave.
+1 that balancing family life + big law is the hard part, not mat leave. Discrimination due to pregnancy and leave is common in big law, but surmountable.
Not to be too negative, but…Babies tend to not follow anyone’s plans. You could plan your whole career and life around having a baby or babies, and not be able to have children. You could have fertility issues. Your future husband could have fertility issues. Don’t forsake a specific career path because of concerns about how children will impact that career path if that is the only reason not to do it. With that being said, I agree with the advice above to try to have your children when you are junior.
This.
I was trying to do similar math as a 2L, when I was a little younger than you but also engaged. I clerked (for two judges) right out of law school, then struggled to get pregnant for years, and then found myself unexpectedly divorced and ultimately dating again. My now-husband and I started trying while we were engaged, thinking it might take a while, and got pregnant immediately. I had my first the year before I was up for partner and took my full maternity leave. I found out I was pregnant again two days after I found out I made partner and then had a relatively late miscarriage. We were just about to start fertility treatments when I found out I was pregnant with my second, for whom both pregnancy and parental leave happened while I was a (junior) partner.
The real point is this: It’s a fool’s errand to try to plan all this out. I don’t wish my path on anyone, but my experience counsels that even the most carefully reasoned plan can be for naught. If you want kids, start trying as soon as you’re ready. Also, if you want a career (and to clerk), pursue that as full heartedly as you do trying to become a parent. There are too many variables over which you have no control to try to optimize either piece of this. There won’t be a perfect time.
Also: Like everyone is saying, I worked vanishingly little during my parental leave as an associate and worked a lot during my parental leave as a partner.
Absolutely this. I got married at 26, started trying to have a baby when I turned 29. Plan was to have 2 babies approximately 2-3 years apart and wanted the option of a 3rd before 37.
What actually happened: Had a bio baby a month after I turned 30 and it was going to be my only bio baby (not my choice). Thought about having just one kid, went a different route, now am 38 with an 8/4/2 year old.
I have always gotten A’s. I was going to get an A in pregnancy and family planning. Turns out, life is wild.
This might be a harsh take: you have too many constraints here. Loosen *something* up.
You’re 31. You’re a 2L and want to clerk. Your fiance lives in a different part of the country. You want Big, Big Law and a long career there. You want kids.
Something has to give. Can your fiance move closer? Can you do 3L year closer to him? Can he step back so that your career can take off? Can you try to conceive so that you give birth as a 3L, and then have 3L year plus a clerkship year to spend with your baby? How do finances figure into this? Do you have local help? Where is your firm in relationship to your fiance and family?
Presuming you can plan and time things, I would get pregnant in your second year at the firm so you go on mat leave after about 2 years of experience and you’ll be 35/36? I would not go into litigation, go into a practice area with an in-house off ramp (employment law or something tr*nsactional). Litigation will preclude you from having choices you’ll want to have.
Waiting until 35 seems risky for a woman who is already partnered and wants two kids.
OP I’d consider trying as soon as your 2L summer. I have several friends who took the bar exam with newborns and they all said it was more manageable than Big Law with a newborn. You might also be able to talk your firm into a delayed start date and take the November bar. In many ways a delayed start date is less disruptive than a mat leave.
November bar? You mean February bar?
Yeah you’re right. I got my July bar results in November so I mixed it up in my mind.
I will tell you what I did and what I thought about it:
1. Conceived baby #1 after finalizing my 2L summer offer. Did 2L and my 2L Big Law summer pregnant and long-distance with DH. DH moved to be with me in August before 3L, right before delivering baby #1 and my mom also lived with us for first semester of 3L.
2. Started in Big Law with a 14 month old. This was ideal as I did not have to pump at work when I started (I did nurse all my babies for 2+ years each).
3. Conceived baby #2 after being at my firm for a year. Took a full maternity leave as a second year plus some more time and it totally did not matter at all. Did not work on maternity leave; a second year is fully replaceable.
4. Conceived baby #3 two years later. Again took a full maternity leave plus some more time as a fifth year and was completely fine. I did work a little bit on maternity leave as by this time I was more senior and needed/wanted to stay involved with some of my clients; I wasn’t as completely replaceable. I came back at an 80% schedule.
5. Moved to another firm as a sixth year – still Big Law but more chill than the Skadden/Cravath/Kirkland band. Made partner after my seventh year.
6. Currently considering baby #4…
Here is what I thought about it: I missed being able to fully focus on law school in 2L and 3L – I really liked law school and would have enjoyed being able to do *just* law school. However my grades did not suffer and being long distance with DH while pregnant was totally fine. I was also glad I did not wait to have kids as it turns out I really like them and wish I could have more but getting too old now :-)
Starting biglaw with a baby was actually nice in some ways as I learned to balance my time and set boundaries from the beginning. That doesn’t mean I didn’t work hard – DH worked part time and we had a nanny, so I did not do any day care balancing and worked very late very often. But then adding kids was nbd because I already had my systems in place and was great at delegating.
I think overall, babies as a junior associate are easier than babies as a senior associate/junior partner. I am doing a lot of business development and on-site client meetings now, which is travel and evenings, and I am glad I currently don’t have a nursing baby at home.
I don’t think it is disruptive to your career progression to take leaves, but you have to be very thoughtful about positioning yourself to get good work – I’m transactional, so I just had to make sure that I was getting/taking deals that would really teach me something and progress my skills, I couldn’t afford to take something that would just be deal reps without progression. I am missing deal reps compared to colleagues who didn’t take over a year of leave in the last 8 years, and that occasionally leads to gaps in my knowledge – but that’s why I work in a big firm with lots of specialists and resources.
I also have colleagues who got pregnant very quickly after starting as a first year – there was much worry about how that would be received/perceived and… it was completely fine. People said mean things about their commitment level etc. but their careers progressed anyway – some went in-house, some made partner, some ended up being SAHPs, the same mix as everyone else.
People are always going to say snippy things to you about your priorities, your schedule, your family choices. But in my experience *what actually happens* is that you get promoted along with your class if you are a good, thoughtful, hardworking attorney. You have to be clear-eyed about what is actually happening with your career and not take the mean things people say as gospel truth. Some firms are truly hostile to working parents – if that is the case, switch firms.
This is an excellent post and what I would suggest as well. You’re more likely to be kept with your big law class year in terms of advancement if you take one mat leave vs two in 3 years.
Also, look at your numbers on childcare unless you have a live in grandparent to DH is a SAHP. Childcare is quite pricey and you will need more than full time hours if DH works also. Likely full time daycare + part time nanny.
This is such good advice.
People love to scare you that daring to give birth at the “wrong” time will derail your career – but often they really just mean it’s inconvenient for them, and it may have no major long term impact to you.
Get at least a semen analysis and AMH check done before you make any assumptions about how this will go.
^ This. You can plan but God will laugh. The best time to get pregnant is a time when you can get pregnant and your partner can get you pregnant.
This!! I so wish we’d done this at the beginning and saved ourselves a lot of time.
Yep. And the combined out of pocket cost for these two tests is going to be under $150 even if insurance completely denies coverage. Just do it.
Not saying the tests aren’t worth it, but I’m skeptical of that number. It costs me more than $150 just to see the doctor (I have insurance but HDHP).
Not the Anon above, but please do not ever conflate insurance prices with the cash pay prices. It’s absurd how much cheaper cash pay is.
AMH out of pocket is $135 plus a $6 physician service fee at Quest Diagnostics. According to Google, other places charge about $75.
Eh, that’s what it was a few years ago. Might be a little more now. Certainly something a future big law lawyer can afford while she’s considering her options.
You might check out the blogger, Lag Liv, she had a baby in law school, and 2 more kids while working (I think one while working in Big Law, and then one while working for the federal government.) She is now a partner at a Big Law firm.
I had my son the summer after law school. I took the bar 7 months pregnant and then started working when he was a few months old. It worked out for us. I then had another baby 2 years later, so while still pretty new at my government job. There are pros and cons to everything. I have more control over my schedule now that I am more senior, but I also have more things that I am solely responsible for so in some ways would be harder to take maternity leave.
What’s the best blow dryer hair brush with a paddle shape (I don’t know how to use round ones and want something super basic that looks like my regular brushes)?
I love my Shark FlexStyle so, so much. It has a paddle brush attachment.
Do you have a link or is there just one model by that name? I’ll check it out!
My T3 Airebrush blow dry blush is more oval than round. It can be used both as a round brush and a paddle. It’s great.
I don’t have a paddle one, but my Dry Bar one is amazing (I have the Double Shot).
An actual styling question! How would you style the following two for a busty 5’1” Apple shaped 35 year old:
1. Casual yellow adidas Stella McCartney sporty tee
2. A hand painted artsy (bit loud) black base but lot of color A like skirt.
I want to try both these items 2-3 ways at least as part of my wear your closet resolution. TIA!
1. With jeans.
2. With a black slim fitting sweater (to balance out the fullness of the skirt), or a slim fitting top in one of the other colors in the skirt.
Thank you! I guess I don’t wear that tee with jeans because it feels too much.. it has words printed all over it.
Found a link to it: https://www.ebay.com/itm/333983557584?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A16IeM367DQx6ErLkzhMYpWQ37&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=333983557584&targetid=2319404999269&device=m&mktype=pla&googleloc=9052318&poi=&campaignid=21222256297&mkgroupid=167054596991&rlsatarget=pla-2319404999269&abcId=9408285&merchantid=8386494&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD_QDh97MsTr0IWMBQrWfkuMcFQ0F&gclid=CjwKCAjwooq3BhB3EiwAYqYoEt8IFoYFbbb9GqrDx4SIgZMN6XK90RVyrLs3VWgczWBKW9vXxry0exoCs-AQAvD_BwE
It’s a tee shirt that doesn’t have much shape. I’d wear it to the gym.
Cargo pants?
with the high neckline and unusual color might be cute under a crewneck sweater. but otherwise agree it’s pretty casual.
another idea: black wide leg trousers, shirt tucked in, white sneakers. old rich lady serious jewelry like pearls or gold chains.
Jeans are like the most basic neutral bottom, assuming you aren’t talking about jeans with lots of rips or super wide legged or other unique styling, so I’m not sure how it could be too much.
OP, could you add some more info about why you’re finding these hard to wear? I’d wear that t-shirt in any way I’d wear any other t-shirt. For me, that would be with jean, with athletic pants, with fluid pants in the summer (half-tucked), even with that black a-line skirt you have. But something is keeping you from wearing the t-shirt. What is it?
Same question for the skirt: My answer is, just wear it with any top that coordinates with one of the colors in the skirt. Since it’s a-line, half tuck or full-tuck the top, or wear it with a waist-length top, or wear it with a slim-fit, tucked in top. but again, something is stopping you from wearing the skirt. What is it?
Since the t-shirt feels like “too much” and the skirt is very colorful — is it that the items feel too bold for you to feel psychologically comfortable in them?
Yes your last para hits the exact reasoning! I guess I sometimes buy stuff which seem really “cool” & theoretically edgy-ish but then I go back to basics (often blaming my body shape for it).
Aha! So, then . . . it’s not the styling that’s the issue, but whether and how to get emotionally comfortable with these items. Thoughts:
• First, stop blaming your body for things its not responsible for. That’s not nice. : )
• Do these colors look good with your coloring? That’s a nearly neon yellow, and the black/colorful skirt sounds really bright. Both of these items would look terrible on me, with my low-contrast coloring. But if you have dark hair or high contrast coloring, they might look great on you.
• If the colors/prints objectively look good on you, do you WANT to become psychologically comfortable with these items, or do you merely want to acknowledge they aren’t a fit for your personality and move on?
• If you want to get comfortable, just wear them when running errands or to the grocery store. REcognize that you’ll feel self-conscious standing out a bit more, and that’s OK.
• If the thought “I can’t pull them off” is in your head, ignore it. You “pull something off” merely by wearing it.
sometimes when I feel like my top is too loud or busy I wear it with a sweater or jacket so that there is less of it visible.
It sounds like you just don’t like the shirt. From the picture, it might as well be a solid color, bright yellow shirt since the white writing fades into the yellow. Wear it with any solid colored, neutral bottom. Jeans are fine. If it’s comfy, wear it with gym shorts like the model. If it’s more structured, do jeans or a solid black or white pant.
Or if you don’t like it, give it away. It’s not special to my eye.
sport tee – what is the shape? cropped? boxy? i’d agree with others, jeans and sneakers, but this feels like some place that kim france advice would be good.
for the loud base – black and white are the easy colors to wear on top, but look at every color in the skirt and see if anything in your closet matches. then look at a color wheel — if the skirt has a black base but is primarily one big color i’d play with tops the same shade, just one or two shades off, complimentary colors, and contrasting shades.
for the a-line skirt depending on hem length i’d try it with different shoes also – a pointy toe for a classic look, a motorcycle boot to wear with tights, and maybe a tall flat boot also. black sneakers also maybe.
1: jeans, straight leg high waist, baggy French tuck
2: dramatic shoulder, (puff or sculptural) blouse in a single colour, baggy tuck, collar ones on view
Or
2: cropped top, white tank tucked tightly underneath and showing at the neck and stomach.
I just bought a loudly colored pleated midi skirt, which I love. I tried a few options and eventually decided to wear it with a black, fitted, short sleeve, mock turtleneck top, with a belt over the top to add shape. I got a lot of compliments.
I am hybrid, in the office two days a week. I love tea, and prefer to have milk in my tea. I don’t want to leave an actual carton of milk in the work fridge when I’m only there two days a week. Any recommendations for a small container I can take back and forth that is suitable to containing just a small amount of milk?
Does the milk you like also come in a small container? Check a convenience store for an 8-10 oz single serve. After you use the original milk, you could reuse it for a weeks-worth of milk.
don’t laugh- a small sippy cup?
Something like this? https://www.rei.com/product/186670/hydro-flask-outdoor-tumbler-12-fl-oz
I’d order those little shelf-stable creamers on amazon.
I’d just use whatever glass jar I emptied next, out of my regular groceries. Or get a spill-proof coffee tumbler and use it to carry milk instead of coffee.
+1 I’ve used a mason jar to bring milk for my tea to work.
+1 – when I worked in an office, I used to bring a small mason jar of creamer to the office on my first day that week that I just left labelled in the fridge.
I use mason jars for everything. I’d probably use a half pint or pint jar for this.
+1 – this is what I did when I went to the office.
a) costco and other stores have milk drink boxes — that might be perfect. they also make powdered milk – i bought some during the pandemic.
b) i often use protein shakes as creamer, and most of those are shelf stable. fairlife shakes are the best and not whey-based, just filtered milk, but premier protein is fine as a creamer.
c) if you really want to bring it from home you need something with a screw top like a thermos food jar. a nalgene water bottle would work too. depends if you need insulation, large amount, small amount, to toss in your bag for your commute, etc.
target has them also
https://www.target.com/p/horizon-organic-whole-milk-6pk-8-fl-oz-boxes/-/A-81577370#lnk=sametab
Baby bottle that comes with a lid is perfect for this.
And I guarantee someone in your life has a cabinet of them she’s dying to get rid of.
I’d probably use one of my kids’ small thermoses we use to send milk for school lunches.
Get a kirkland or horizon small tetrapack carton of shelf-stable milk. These are available in a pack of 12. You can keep them in your desk for a long time and use as needed.
I use a small (5.5 inches by 1.5 inches) thermos water bottle.
Looks like the power went out overnight and stayed gone for 3 hours. Because I was asleep and did not know about the outage, I didn’t wake up to check the fridge temp when it came back. In terms of perishables I have – milk, cheese, a lot of yogurt, open jar of pasta sauce. Discard? Use any of it?
I really don’t have the time or desire to grocery shop but obviously want to be food safe too. Should I just stick to what’s in the pantry until I can get to the store?
Only 3 hours and the fridge was closed the whole time? I wouldn’t worry about it.
Agree. Your stuff is fine.
+1.
+1. No big deal.
100% it’s fine.
3 hours? I wouldn’t worry about it.
I would keep all this and continue eating it without hesitation.
Uncooked seafood or leftovers that were on the cusp before the outage are the only things I would toss in this scenario. Everything else should be just fine.
The FDA guidance is throw out certain items (not everything) after 4 hours. I think you’re fine, especially if you didn’t open it, but if you know your fridge is an ancient POS that probably did warm up really quickly, then I’d be more cautious.
They’re fine.
everything you mentioned is absolutely fine. Assuming fridge was closed the whole time, I would throw out raw chicken or seafood. keep everything else.
there’s no need to throw out raw chicken or seafood. Per FDA, if the outage was less than 4 hours and the doors were kept closed, all food is safe. And the FDA skews very cautious on things like this.
I would toss it all. Three hours without refrigeration is potentially very dangerous since you weren’t able to monitor the inside temperature regularly. I definitely would not risk it. Sorry. You might want to look into getting some kind of alarm that notifies you so you can get up and check temps after/during an event like this in the future but for now, I think you’re heading to the store to start over.
What!?! No, this is completely wasteful and totally unnecessary. It wasn’t “3 hours without refrigeration” it was 3 hours without power which is *very* different. Refrigerators will stay cool for a loooong time without power, if you keep the door closed. The consensus is that in 4 hours a refrigerator temp shouldn’t go above 40F, which is still safe for food.
But she has zero idea what the temp inside was because it was hours later, after the fridge came back on, that she would have checked the situation
So for three hours that food could have been at any temp, we have no idea how warm. No way am I risking that. You do you. My security system notifies me when the power is out so I can check on things and move the important stuff into iced coolers immediately but the OP did not have the benefit of that.
A refrigerator doesn’t get above 40F in three hours if it hasn’t been opened. You don’t need a thermometer to know that. It’s basic physics, and is why the FDA says it’s fine to eat anything if the power was off for less than 4 hours.
It’s a choice to live this way.
Refrigerators are also coolers (this is part of their energy efficiency). Your advice isn’t consistent with any guidelines I’ve seen anywhere. The food wasn’t sitting out on the counter at room temperature.
This seems like an overreaction. When your fridge turns off, it doesn’t automatically come up to room temp. I’d smell anything highly perishable (meat, etc.), toss if suspicious, and keep everything else. Mustard isn’t going to go bad after 3 hours in a still-cold fridge.
I live in the mountains, and we have regular multi-day power outages in the winter. Our generator keeps the fridge running during the day, but we don’t run it overnight – we just never open the fridge if the generator isn’t running. Most of the stuff in our fridge doesn’t go bad until ~night 4, and even then, I just toss the highly perishables.
Yeah we came home from a long vacation this summer to discover our fridge had died while we were gone, who knows how many days ago, but the interior was still quite cool relative to room temp – about 50 degrees. We tossed highly perishable things like meats, but kept things like milk (we have UHT milk which is safe to drink at room temp), cheese, butter, produce and condiments. It was completely fine, no stomach issues whatsoever.
agree with everyone else, total overreaction. maybe if you’re pregnant or otherwise medically fragile? but… no.
agree with everyone else your food is FINE. certainly anything in the body of the refrigerator. if you had like day old sushi on a shelf in the door, throw that away, but otherwise you’re totally fine.
ESPECIALLY with yogurt, milk, and cheese — those will all announce when they are no longer good, you don’t have to wonder.
Any spot exercises for the derrière I can do at home? I have lost a significant amount of weight (on purpose), and now… well the word pancake comes to mind.
(PS Im still somewhat overweight so its not a too skinny problem, I wish!)
check out Clare Morrow — I’ve seen a lot from her talking about how if you want a round high butt you need to do additional exercises in addition to squats (working the top glutes, maybe?). she’s a little weird but i like her as an over 50 fitness influencer. her protein ball recipes are good too.
doh forgot to paste this: https://www.instagram.com/p/B_c10mWj2Dq/
If you have a stair somewhere, you can try the step on, step off in-place step jogging.
Bret Contreras.
He’s a PhD in sport science. He will grow your glutes in very specific ways.
Strong Curves
Squats. Lots of squats. Plus romanian deadlifts if you have weights.
Agree with squats and romanian deadlifts. Use dumbbells. You could try free videos like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKxmCeDpr_w – she has lots of good content. There are also a lot of online paid programs. I did Get Mom Strong (you don’t have to be a mom to do it) and it was very effective in getting rid of my flat postpartum butt.
Thanks everyone! I bookmarked a lot of these recs.
ok. Very Important Question i have not been able to find out online.
did bon jovi just happen to walking nearby before he saved the lady on the bridge, or was he contacted somehow by police or friends by request/threat of the lady?
He was shooting a music video nearby.
It sounds like he was filming a music video there, so… he was in the neighborhood. (I am not an authority, just passing on unsubstantiated internet gossip).
I’m in nashville and local media and rumor seems to support that he was there for a video and happened upon it.