Thursday’s Workwear Report: Kelsey Ponte Knit Trousers
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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
A ponte trouser is a seasonless must-have. This pair from Liverpool has a mid rise and 28.5” inseam — perfect for a business casual look. I would wear these with loafers and a boxy blazer for an easy office outfit.
These pants are $98 at Nordstrom and come in sizes 14W–24W. They also come in black, maple, sea green, and dark shadow grey. Liverpool's website has more sizes in stock, and straight sizes are available at Amazon.
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Sales of note for 3/10/25:
- Nordstrom – Spring sale, up to 50% off
- Ann Taylor – 40% off everything + free shipping
- Banana Republic Factory – 40% off everything + 20% off
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off all sale and select styles with code
- J.Crew – 40% off everything + extra 20% off when you buy 3+ styles
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off all pants & sweaters; extra 50% off clearance
- M.M.LaFleur – Friends and family sale, 20% off with code; use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Flash sale until midday 3/14: $50 off every $200 – combineable with other offers, including 40% off one item and 30% off everything else
Some of you have posted that when you became serious about finding a partner you treated it almost like a job and intentionally went on a lot of dates. How frequently did you go on dates, and how long did it take before finding your partner? I’ve come to the (slightly obvious) realization that this is mostly a numbers game. I’d love some perspective on what you consider “a lot of dates” as I don’t have many single friends to compare against. Any advice about navigating the apps is appreciated as well. A married friend recently told me not to expect stimulating conversation over messaging- if the guy’s profile meets your on-paper qualifications and his messages don’t raise any red flags then just go on a date and see what happens. I found this really helpful and would love any other nuggets of wisdom you’re willing to share. Thanks!
Really good question that I’ve wondered about too. At one point I remember estimating my ratio was 7 first dates to 1 that turned into a long-term relationship. I’m sure YMMV, interested to hear others’ answers!
That is such a good ratio! Mine is like 50 first dates to relationship and 100 first dates to long-term relationship.
I probably went on one first date a week on average for most of November to January – the last one has stuck and I’ve been seeing him since Jan.
More than the dates it was the swiping and messaging – making a point to spend a few minutes each day on hinge. When I had a few matches I’d stop swiping and work my way through the matches until I’d either met them, ruled them out, or they didn’t reply to message 1 or 2.
Agree with your married friend about not waiting to have great convos on the apps.
I’m not married, so idk if I’m the right person to answer this, but I was probably going on 2-3 dates a month for 3-4 months between ending a situationship and meeting my current boyfriend. Some of those were 2nd dates. It’s going great, but I was just thinking that I’m not sure if I want to marry him or not (its only been like 6 months) so who knows if I’m really done with the dating world or not.
Thinking back –
butterfly farm entrepreneur guy
speechwriter guy – definitely texted him longer than I should have before meeting up
t*ump supporter guy
nice lawyer but no chemistry guy – went on at least 2 dates
catfish photo guy
guy who said “so now you have to kiss me” when we left after 1 drink – I turned around and walked away
I kinda hope the butterfly farm entrepreneur guy is your current boyfriend. That sounds like a job someone on House Hunters would have with their inexplicable $1million budget.
I’m probably above average but I went on 3-4 dates a week, never bothered chatting a lot ahead of time (waste of time – your friend is 100% right), dated roughly 4-5 people for 3ish months in there too, and met my now husband about 1.5 years after taking this approach. I was picky and not willing to settle and I didn’t. I also had a great time dating. Yes, it’s a lot of time and effort but it was also a lot of fun – even if it’s not a love connection, there are way worse ways to spend an evening after work than having cocktails and apps with someone.
Man I wish enough people wanted to date me for this to be an option
+1 this was me. I would go on a first date with just about anyone and I had fun doing so. I am picky so didn’t have a lot of second dates unless I really, really liked the person. I didn’t like messaging back and forth. I preferred to just meet in person.
+1 to this as far as the numbers – I also went on 3-4 dates/wk (which was hard for me – I’m an introvert and don’t love the small talk of first dates) and it ultimately took me about 2.5 years to meet my husband (one rel’ship in there that lasted about a year). I am also very picky and while I wouldn’t say I settled (my husband is a wonderful person and I feel lucky to have him), I did start to think more seriously about what my true dealbreakers were, and prune that list further down. That helped a lot as far as mindset went. I found my DH on Bumble about six years ago (did all the apps at the time, hinge, bumble, the league, etc.).
Omg this sounds exhausting. Secondly, I’ve never been in any city where the options were such that I have been interested in multiple first dates a month let alone a week. :-/
I went on 2-3 a week, but that burned me out a bit. It shouldn’t be stressful! I’d recommend one first date a week, and then spend 20 minutes a day responding to people on Hinge.
There are a lot of awesome resources out there about dating. When I was single I loved We Met At Acme – the podcast gives you some rules to follow and ways to set good boundaries for yourself around it.
Also – I always preferred coffee dates or walks for a first date. It’s low-stakes and easy to exit if you have to, you see each other in daylight sober, and it takes some of the smoke and mirrors away that can come from dinner/drinks. Figure out what your preferred first date is and then propose it to people you’re chatting with!
Best of luck to you! <3
If I didn’t have any promising 2nd/3rd dates lined up, I did 2-3 first dates a week. Usually just drinks after work, it’s easy to escape after one if it’s red flag city. Ended up lingering until 2 am over drinks with my now fiance. If I was starting to see someone, like ~3ish dates in, I would stop swiping and give it a few weeks. I did expect some level of basic conversational fluency over text, but I didn’t expect it to be exhilarating. In fact, the people with whom I had the best app conversations turned out to be insane IRL — not scientific, but my experience.
I’ve been on dozens and dozens of dates in the last 10+ years I’ve been online dating on and off. I know one person who married the first person she met online. Meanwhile I’m still single. It is definitely a numbers game, but it’s also a major crapshoot and nothing is guaranteed.
-Don’t message for weeks or even days. Meet ASAP.
-First dates should be short and simple. A coffee, drink, or walk. Don’t meet for dinner because you could be stuck with someone awful for two hours. I always meet somewhere near my house so I can escape and get home easily if the date doesn’t go well. 45 minutes, one glass of wine is enough time to get to know someone on a first date.
-Don’t take anything personally. Guys will ghost you, make promises they don’t keep, etc. It’s not you.
-Talk to lots of guys at the same time and go on lots of dates every week if possible. Don’t focus on just one guy until you’re sure there’s an actual relationship developing.
Completely agree with all of this, especially the part about having guys in the pipeline. I feel like a lot of women invest in one guy at a time and that’s too rollercoastery for me.
Agree. Do not expect that a guy has singled it down to you unless he says so, because he probably hasn’t. So go on lots of dates with lots of people.
Yup – one of my close friends just went through this. She thought she had found a boyfriend and had stopped dating other people, he had no idea they were in a relationship and was still dating other people.
Absolutely. Just like you shouldn’t stop applying for jobs just because you have one good interview, don’t stop matching with people/going on first dates because you had a couple of dates that went well. Way too many women get way too invested in one person far too early.
I think it really varies. I’ve had periods where I go on a couple dates a month to a couple dates a week. It is definitely a numbers game but give them the benefit of the doubt and meet for drinks on a first date, no dinner unless the free meal is worth the misery of a bad first date. It can take a lot of work, a lot of time and a lot of disappointment but keep trying and take breaks when you need.
Probably at least one, maybe two a week. After chatting online for maybe a week or two, someone had two maybe three dates to catch my interest – after that, let it fade out/let them know I wasn’t interested and moved on to the next. I had no issues with dating more than one person at once either since it’d only be a couple of dates or so – if we were both really interested I’d stop with the other people. I found my spouse after a couple of years of intently doing this.
I went out with about 13 guys over the course of 3 months before I found my partner. Some of the guys I saw multiple times and quite a few only once. Even after my first date with my current partner I went out with two other guys (one I had seen before my partner and one guy was new). I didn’t want to settle on someone right away so I keep going out with other people until I knew I didn’t have any interest in anyone else — I was upfront about that too. Honestly it didn’t take me long to figure this out with my partner.
Some weeks I went out with several different people (I think the most was 3 different guys in a week) and some weeks I took a break when it was too much. I used Bumble and I treated it like an introduction service. For the most part I had a lot of fun. I was new to the area and this was a great way to go to new places and meet people I wouldn’t have met otherwise even if we only went out one time. Several times the guy would ask me out again and I wasn’t interested so I just said that I thought he was really nice but I didn’t feel a connection and I wished him well in finding his person. I got really positive responses – the guys appreciated me being honest.
I read a lot of books about dating before I started and the two the helped the most were Finding love in 90 days and 121 first dates. Also the Damona Hoffman “Dates and Mates” podcast was really helpful too. She definitely recommends not texting much and meeting soon. One argument is that you build up in your mind who someone is from texting and then when you meet in person you find out reality is different.
It really is a numbers game and you just have to keep at it with a fun and positive attitude. I look back on that period of my life with a lot of fondness but I am very happily partnered now. Good luck and have fun!
I had a system where I went on two (first) dates a night–one at 530 and then one at 730. I kept the dates short, about an hour, and at (two different) locations that were each walking distance from my house. I’d go home in between.
This worked well for me because I could do one, occasionally two, date nights a week and meet more people without it gobbling up all my evening time. I also liked the economy of scale it offered: less time spent picking outfits, doing my hair/makeup, even picking where to go. I also felt safe because I was in my neighborhood, I could walk, and the bartenders at the two spots caught on pretty quickly and were rooting and (and watching out) for me.
I went on second dates with less than 1/4 and made it to date 3 only with my now-husband. This worked really fast for me, in a way that I think isn’t realistic or replicable. I mostly got lucky in that sense. But it is totally a numbers game, and I am an evangelist for the two-dates-a-night method.
I would message ~5 people a week and see what happened. Many didn’t respond, but I went out with anyone who met my criteria who seemed normal. I met my husband this way! I agree with your friend not to overthink it. Extended messaging is a waste of time. Have a few exchanges back and forth to make sure there are no obvious red flags and then suggest meeting up.
Extended messaging is a HUGE waste of time. I went on a date with a guy who had been absolutely cracking me up via messages, and in person he was like Michigan J Frog *ribbit.* He actually said “I didn’t have time to prepare any conversation for our date.” I honestly think he was copying and pasting someone else’s witty banter! NEXT.
100% agree with your married friend’s comment.
And yes, when I got serious about finding someone, I’d go on 2-3 first dates per week. I lived in DC and I found the dating pool pretty good (I was 34, though, so blessedly past the frat bro age that I hear younger women lamenting). I started in May once I decided I had sufficiently healed after a break-up, and did 2-3 dates per week every week until Christmas when I met my now-husband. So 2.5 dates times 30 weeks is 75 dates.
Only 4 men in that entire time (other than my husband) got second dates. Only 2 men got third dates. I was old enough and experienced enough from previous relationships where I had settled and talked myself into various men that I knew what I was looking for. My requirements were 1) someone I was unquestionably physically attracted to (no having to convince myself), 2) someone whose education and profession worked for me (shallow, but it’s what I wanted), and 3) someone I was excited about who I believed was also excited about me. I absolutely WAS evaluating every guy during the date thinking, “Do I want to wake up to this face/laugh/weird twitch for the rest of my life?” I didn’t spend time trying to talk myself into someone. Either that spark/click was there for me or it wasn’t.
I found a restaurant/bar close-but-not-too-close to my condo where I could meet dates. I made friends with the staff so I felt comfortable signaling for help in case things went horribly awry.
When I saw my husband’s profile, I immediately swiped right without hesitation. When I walked in the restaurant and saw him, I knew he was the one and we were going to get married. Took him a wee bit longer though ;)
Yes, I got sick of the dating pace sometimes and took two breaks of about a week each. Yes, I ended up seeing the same guys on every app for a while. And I went out with one guy for about a month, but ended it when I started seeing emotional traits I wasn’t comfortable with (longtime Issues he wasn’t open to dealing with in a healthy way).
Good luck! It’s all such an undertaking.
Definitely a numbers game! I went on probably 40-50 first dates over the last year and a half, mostly in the summer as I wasn’t doing indoor dining during the height of covid. I dated 2 people for several months before it petered out. Now I’ve been dating a man for 2 months and see long term potential.
What in the world am I supposed to wear to a baseball game outing for work? It’s going to be in the upper 90s. I’m sure all the guys will be in shorts and tshirts.
I was thinking a tshirt dress and sandals?
I would say t-shirt dress and sandals sound perfect! If you didn’t want to do a dress for some reason, linen pants and a lightweight top. The heat index is in the 100s here, and no one would blink twice at outfits like this for a work function in this heat (or probably ever really)!
CapHillStyle had a good post on this recently. She had a good tip to bring a coozie, plus an extra to share. And I’d also check the stadium’s bag rules – they can be stringent on sizes!
This – the bag rule is a real limitation that can trip people up. And apart from the bag itself, I would not bring your laptop or iPad, etc. as theft can be a real concern at stadiums.
Having been at a game last night, you will be fine in whatever – people can and do wear business-wear to events on weekdays. Just change to shoes you can walk in and don a team branded baseball cap and you’ll be fine. I would stash a few of those wipes with sunscreen and bug spray on them in my purse and pack some hand sanitizer, since honestly that’s what I find myself more preoccupied with at a stadium.
T shirt dress and sandals sounds right.
Admittedly it was an event for my husband’s firm, not mine, but I wore linen shorts and a tank top with some cute jewelry to an outdoor event the other day. There’s only so professional looking I’m willing to be in 97 degree weather.
I’m old and frumpy, but a t-shirt dress sounds too risque for a work event TBH. I’d probably wear Land’s End camp-style shorts and a cotton v-neck shirt (or team shirt if you have one).
What could possibly be risqué about a t shirt dress?
A t-shirt dress is risqué? I’ve worked in some pretty conservative environments and would have absolutely no problem with a t-shirt dress (provided it’s an appropriate length and not completely body con).
What? How is a t-shirt dress risque? They are comfy, not sexy.
Yeah I don’t understand what’s risqué about a t shirt dress. It can be risqué if it’s too short and/or tight, but that’s true of any item of clothing.
I wonder if she means the whole having to be careful about sitting part, and I can kind of see what she means. You are in stadium seating, so no seat in front of you providing any sort of cover. I’m sure it would be fine and many people can obviously pull it off, but I would probably feel more comfortable in shorts personally for this reason to not have to even give it two thoughts.
Plenty of people wear bike shorts under their dresses for this reason.
I think this is one of those things that depends on your body type. I wouldn’t go as far as calling it risqué, but I’ve never been able to find a tee shirt dress that looks reasonable on me, as I am very large of chest. They work a lot better on people that are more evenly proportioned. I also don’t like too much sun exposure, so I’d probably go with a lightweight 3/4 sleeve blouse with shorts.
The one I’m thinking of is a midi length so should be pretty modest for climbing around seats.
All my shorts are 5” inseam which seems like a bit much leg
Midi length seems fine! I always picture a t-shirt dress as above the knees and looking somewhat like a nightshirt, a la:
https://factory.jcrew.com/p/womens/categories/clothing/dresses/casual-dresses/short-sleeve-t-shirt-dress/AO421
This is also what I think of a T shirt dress as. Even so, there’s literally nothing risqué about it. It’s nearly knee length and has short sleeves and a higher neckline. It’s downright modest and totally appropriate for a casual work event.
Okay, but that’s not risque at all.
Do you know what risqué means?
This is not risque.
+1 light sundress and sandals or cute white sneakers and to check the stadiums purse guidelines.
I think white sneakers are a much better choice than sandals. There’s something in me that just won’t allow myself to walk through Yankee Stadium (*insert your stadium here*) in open toed shoes.
I agree — I’d wear white sneakers because I’m always afraid somebody is going to stomp on my toes.
+1 on sneakers, and a t-shirt dress
Sandals at a ballpark can be problematic. If it’s crowded, your feet may get stepped on. That, and plenty of debris from concessions ends up on the ground at ballparks. Made that mistake once, never again.
Having hosted and attended many of these events, t-shirt dress is fine, but I’d suggest shorts + t-shirt (incl. t-shirt from the home team if you have one). Also, if it is not outdoors, e.g., suite, you may want to wear jeans since it is normally freezing. If it is outdoors, I’d do keds over sandals – mostly because I don’t like stepping in stuff in sandals.
I personally wouldn’t do sandals, but that’s because I hate walking through dirty concourses in sandals, plus the risk of sunburn. Either do a t-shirt dress with cute sneakers, or just go the t-shirt and shorts route. There’s only so much one can do to look professional when it’s blazing hot. Comfort wins.
If shorts, skirt or dress, make sure it’s long enough to cover the back of your legs down to your knees. It’s got nothing to do with modesty, those seats can get HOT.
+1
Not to mention the sunburn I got that one time on the tops of my thighs while wearing shorts at Dodger Stadium.
Lightweight ankle pants, some sort of loose sleeveless top if you have one, and bring something to cover your arms with. At least where I am, the games tend to start out warm but get chilly by the end, and you’ll want another layer bh the end of the game. You’ll also want to cover your arms if you’re right in the sun. I’d wear sneakers on my feet and some sort of hat to keep my face from being burned.
Now if you have a shirt or jacket in vaguely the home team colors, even better.
I go to at least one corporate day at the ballpark every year, sometimes more. Don’t overthink this.
Went to one last week. Wore white jeans, a nice tee in the team’s color, a ballcap, and standard office-nice jewelry. Half the women there were wearing the same thing.
I know this is a long shot, but can anyone recommend a lawyer in northwest Washington for an incident where an elderly man got injured at a business? Skagit County would be ideal, but someone in Bellingham or Everett might cover the area too.
Sorry, the only ones I know in Skagit are corporate attorneys at firms that do not do personal injury.
Try Yohannes Sium in downtown Seattle.
I’d like to quit biting my nails after many prior attempts and think that wearing fake nails for a long stretch of time would really help but I have a very low maintenance look and don’t want it to stand out or look odd on me. What’s my best bet to use? Should I do my own or go to a nail salon? If I go to a salon what do I ask for and if I do myself what should I buy? Thank you! I’m clueless here.
When I quit biting my nails, the thing that worked best was just keeping them painted all the time. As soon as they chipped, I would bite them. it required a lot of painting – but it worked!
Same here. It’s a weekly ritual now and I am quite good at it!
I would go to a salon. My nail salon has something called Gel-X nails, but I’m not sure how long they last. Your other option is a full set of acrylic nails. Check out reviews of local salons. They don’t have to be a super long length and you can get neutral colors.
I personally feel like the best thing for me is just having a nail file on hand because I tend to bite them when I have a hangnail or something that I’m trying to even out. Having a file handy lets me fix the nail without biting.
However, if you’re going to a salon, I would recommend against gel nails. Now, I love gel nails and when I am keeping up with them every 2 weeks that is what I get. However, it sounds like you eventually want to be polish free, and the first several weeks after you stop getting gel your nails are a total mess and are very soft and peel/break, and it will 100% encourage you to go back to biting. You might want to try just regular polish (go to a salon, it isn’t that pricey for a regular mani) in a light color. You can also try Nailtiques Formula 2, which is a clear coat that is supposed to help strengthen nails and which you can buy at pretty much any drugstore.
I agree with this. Maybe there are other technologies are out there that I’m not aware of, but for gel specifically unless you are committed to keeping it up in perpetuity they will damage your real nails and definitely cause you to revert to biting when you stop doing them.
I am a life long nail biter. I wish I wasn’t. The only thing that sort of works for me is the anti bite stuff. Even that I have to apply frequently, once the taste dulls enough I hate to even admit it but I start to tolerate it and bite anyway. A fresh coat of it is intolerable.
Keep them painted. And I wouldn’t bother going to the salon for this. Pick a neutral shade and do them at home.
If you will bite through the paint like I do acrylics fully cover the nail. They do damage your nails a bit when removed but not terribly.
SNS is supposed to help strengthen the nails compared to gel if you want a long lasting polish
Also low maintenance person who didn’t want to spend too much money:
drugstore stick on nails, short versions. They don’t interfere with typing or life and they are just enough interference onmy nails that I am not motivated to pick/bite them…
I’m cheap, but KISS has press on nails (or you can glue them) that look natural and prevent me from picking at my cuticles. I buy the extra short length in the ombré French (I think that’s what it is, they’re a very very pale pink that fades to white) but have also done the short length in fun colors.
Big ups to those KISS press-on nails. They stay on better than the traditional glue-on nails.
Once you start to get a little growth, try to keep cuticle oil and a nail file on you all the time (as the poster above said). I pick at my nails instead of biting them and the filing/oiling keeps me from finding that edge to pick at.
Yeah I just tried the KISS press-ons for the first time and was really impressed with how well they stay on. They also don’t seem to damage your nails when you take them off. Definitely recommend.
It makes sense to me to try something to break the habit, but if there’s any sensory component to it, the sensory irritation of fake nails may drive you mad. Maybe that’s helpful too if it means that you develop resistance to constant nagging irritation; I’m not sure. It just made me uncomfortable all the time personally.
You may also want to look in to NAC and/or Inositol. I think these helped me a lot more than willpower. I think NAC has more research support than Inositol.
FWIW the *only* thing that got me to finally stop biting my nails after a lifetime was treating my anxiety. Not fake nails, not manicures, not that nail polish that tasted bad…anxiety medication. The urge to bite just literally disappeared.
This is kind of how it was for me with the NAC that I mentioned… Anxiety wasn’t my issue personally, but apparently it was still some other kind of underlying neurotransmitter thing that was treatable.
There’s a reason onychophagia is considered a medical symptom though; it’s not just a bad habit.
Get short acrylics or gel overlays. Your nails will be hard and painted but not long.
Getting fake nails at a salon is a commitment and kind of expensive. The fake nails at the drugstore are surprisingly nice and stay put – I used to buy Lee Press-ons in high school and even the cheaper ones are better these days. I like the Sally Hansen ones myself.
Ooh something I’m somewhat of an expert in!
I compulsively bite my nails and the skin around my nails horribly. My cuticles were a crime scene for years. I’ve tried every remedy under the sun (including hypnosis!) and the only one that completely fixed it are acrylic nails. Gel manicures helped to an extent but acrylics have stopped the issue completely. The downside is that I will have to get them for the rest of my life, as anytime I have had them removed the issue immediately comes back. Acrylics are basically liquid fake nails that the nail tech molds to your nail, as opposed to pre-formed fake nails you buy at the drug store. Once the liquid fake nail is applied and shaped, the tech then paints the fake nail with the color of your choice. Something about the extra thickness it give the nail (minimal to the naked eye but definitely a difference) dissuades me subconsciously from biting and picking, and they are stuck to your natural nail with some kind of crazy adhesive so they never fall off (if done right.)
A lot of people associate acrylics with long Cardi B nails but they can be any length and can just cover the length of your natural nail if you want them as low key as possible. Dip manicures are very similar (same liquid fake nail substance but a thinner application and a different process) so that’s an option as well. Many salons have stopped doing acrylics because they’re time intensive, so maybe go to a salon and do a dip manicure first and see if that gets you what you’re looking for!
Pre-formed fake nails are an option too but i’ve noticed that they wear out fast if you are typing a lot. But some good fake nail online vendors are Static Nails and Glamnetics. Good luck!
Any favorite playlists on Spotify to listen to while working? Preferably with no or not a lot of words? I’m realizing more and more how much this perversely helps me concentrate.
For reference (and a pay it forward recommendation) I’ve randomly been listening to the soundtrack from The White Lotus. I’ve found it to be a good mix of upbeat and interesting but still able to be part of my background.
I know I can search for “music for concentration” or something but wondering if there are any other kind of off-the-beaten-path recs from anyone. Thanks!
I like the Zen Focus and there is an indie instrumental one that I quite like.
I looove the playlist “Road Trip to Tokyo” on Spotify. It’s 5 hours long so doesn’t feel repetitive to listen to frequently and has a great vibe that makes me feel like I’m sitting in a cafe looking out onto a bustling, neon-lined street in the rain.
Listening to this now and loving it! Thanks for the rec
Same, thank you! This is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. Will give some of the other recs a try too.
I have no recs, but I pulled up The White Lotus and thanks!!
When I really need to focus, I like the Best of John Williams playlist, or the Star Wars playlist. The Black Panther score is also really good “need to concentrate” background music.
yes! another Musical Score person here!
Atticus Finch/Trent Reznor – social network and gone girl scores are my go-tos.
Hans Zimmer Interstellar – and basically anything Hans.
Succession – Nick Britell
I like similar stuff. I can also recommend the How to Train your Dragon score.
The score from Amelie also works for me. My go-to, though, is Bach piano. Very mathematical, helps me focus a lot without distracting the language part of my brain. Good for writing.
I listen to the “calm classics” playlist so much that now all my spotify recs are a bizarre mix of alt rock, folk, and ambient piano music.
I don’t have a specific recommendation, but I have read that video game soundtracks are good for this.
I love listening to movie soundtracks while I work – favorite is the Stardust movie soundtrack. For instrumentals I’m always a fan of Vanessa Mae and Lindsey Stirling but those may be a bit too EDM for some…
Lo-Fi Beats is a good one. I also really like listening to French hip-hop, or any rap/hip-hop in a language I don’t speak, but playlists tend to be short.
Yes! If you don’t speak German, check out OK Kid and Antilopen Gang. OK Kid is less hip hop, but they have a great sound.
Any French hip hop you’d care to recommend?
Nothing specific – I just search for “French Hip Hop” in the playlists on Spotify and click on whatever looks interesting. I’ll check out those German recs!
I prefer classical music than the “zen” music for this, in case you hadn’t thought about that option. I love me some Bach cello suites! I listen to music while at my desk most of the day, except when I’m on calls of course, or when my ears need a headphone break. It really helps me, even after moving to a much quieter part of my office.
I can’t listen to music with words while working. I search for “focus” playlists and have found some great ones. I like classical and jazz ones mostly.
The Beasts of the Southern Wild soundtrack is one of my favorites for this kind of thing. Also (if you can stand some words), Swing Kids is a nice mix of jazz standards and instrumental music.
There’s an album called “Cafe Covers” which has chilled piano covers of popular songs. Its lovely to work to.
“Adhd hyperfocus”
I love the Outlander soundtracks when I want to listen to instrumental music while working.
Baroque music is great for concentration and flow. Pandora has a great baroque channel
White Lotus is a great idea!
I love the Succession soundtracks, the City of Prague’s album of Harry Potter score selections, and jazz playlists. Westworld and Game of Thrones soundtracks are okay.
Sunday-Label has a few playlists- Calming Music/ Backround Music/ Writing Music
ADHD Brain go Brrrr
Deep focus
Ear bud recommendation for someone with small ears? In the past with corded headphones, I do well when I can adjust the size of the silicone earpiece to a small size. Apple ear buds have always just popped right out. Thanks!
Following with interest. I have the same problem with ear buds. I have yet to find any that don’t pop out of my ears. Even if I smash them in, they will eventually fall out.
I cannot find earbuds to fit my tiny ears. The best thing I did was switch to Aftershokz that hook over my ears. Definitely check them out.
I cannot do the apple airpod pros (even with the smallest silicone earpiece), but I can do the airpod classics – they’re the exact same size as the traditional wired headphones.
I also have tiny ears.
If you don’t mind the athletic aspect/hook design, Powerbeats are the only earbuds that have ever stayed worked for me.
+1 for Powerbeats. Most comfortable earbuds ever. Unfortunately mine stopped working after a year, ugh.
The AirPods Pro work for my small ears. With the smallest size tip, of course.
I like these, they hold a good charge and are small enough for my ear canals.
https://www.amazon.com/Avantree-Comfortable-Headphones-Bluetooth-Isolation/dp/B07QDST5LG/ref=sr_1_10?crid=2WBPFCUZOSSVT&keywords=avantree&qid=1656005726&rnid=2941120011&s=electronics&sprefix=avantree%2Caps%2C119&sr=1-10
When you say Apple’s don’t work, are you referring to their molded plastic shape? Those give me an awful earache. But, the Airpod Pros come with 3 sizes of silicone tips.
aftershockz. bone conductivity so nothing in the ears
People who have had lots of jobs, does the “I’m moving on” conversation with your current boss ever get easier? I just had it today with mine and it was so awkward. It’s an internal lateral move (moving from being a spout specialist in teapots to a spout specialist in milk jugs) so he didn’t understand why.
Sometimes it’s literally just that you want a new challenge and a pay rise, you know?
Bosses that don’t understand that are gonna be awkward because they fundamentally lack empathy for why employees make certain decisions. This conversation is less awkward with phenomenal people managers invested in their people’s growth.
The conversation with my immediate manager was great – he’s very invested in my growth and has known I’ve been interviewing internally (and looking externally) for a while. The awkward conversation was with my team’s boss – the layer above him.
I love Senior Attorney’s advice below to take the emotion out of it – I will use that for all the other people I have to tell!
Ha, so there you go :)
I don’t think I’ve had lots of jobs but the only “I’m out” convo that wasn’t weird was a contract position that most folks left after two years.
My last day at my job is tomorrow (ack) and the goodbyes are killing me. I’m never good at this stuff. If I could Irish goodbye every situation I would.
Best of luck for the last day, Pugs!!
Good luck tomorrow Pugs!!
Thank you both!
The only thing that helped me with awkward conversations like this was when I realized that my job was just to convey the information, not to make the receiver of the information understand why I was making the decision, or to get them to agree that it was a good idea.
This is good advice. The first time in my career I had to have that talk, I felt very nervous — even though I didn’t like the work I was doing and my boss was very disorganized, which made almost everything more difficult and stressful than it had to be. In some later stops, I was relieved to be leaving bosses I didn’t like, but keeping the emotion out of it was the better path in that situation, too.
Sort of. It was never a surprise that I was leaving because I am a communicator and had brought my concerns about my current position to my manager in order to try to make it work rather than finding a new job. Once I exhausted that avenue, the bosses could hardly be surprised I had decided to leave.
Please give me your best advice or wishes for not having a conversation when I am upset!
I’m the youngest equity partner at my midsize firm. One of only a handful of women partners. I also have a unique name.
One of our non-attorney management employees has repeatedly misspelled my name on internal emails and client facing materials. This employee introduced me yesterday to a large group and mispronounced my name. I’ve had two prior discussions with this person walking through how to pronounce and spell my name. (Trying to explain for context- my name is short but a vowel can trip people up, I’d say maybe similar how “J” in “Javier” is silent- once you know, you usually read and say it correctly). This person is under 40, for context, although I think people of all ages can learn to say and spell names. I was mad yesterday and still mad today. I want to go to firm leadership and ask them to have a heavier hand but I also don’t want to blow something up. It is just my name- it isn’t my law license. I’ve been here several years but interact with this person more often now that I’m a partner.
Am I overreacting? Should I go to this person again directly? When should I have this conversation (if at all)?
As incredibly frustrating as this can be, I don’t think elevating the issue to management is the appropriate course of action.
You’ve talked to them about how to pronounce your name, but have you specifically said, “It’s incredibly disrespectful to me that you insist on spelling and pronouncing my name incorrectly.” I know that sounds aggressive, but I think you want it documented that you communicated to this person that it’s unacceptable to continue doing this so that if/when they do it again they can’t claim they didn’t realize it was a real problem.
If they don’t correct it, I would speak to whomever they report to because this sort of thing is so low-key toxic. Also maybe don’t be like my and respond to this sort of thing but starting to spell the other person’s name wrong intentionally in e-mails as petty retribution, lol.
Are we sure this person has bad intentions? Perhaps they have a speech impediment or otherwise struggle with verbal pronunciations.
Eh… that’s not the read I’m getting. It sounds like they just don’t think it really matters/is a big deal (OP if I’m misinterpreting this and the person seems mortified/apologizes after these mistakes then I mostly take back my advice and agree with others saying to give them more time), which is not their call to make. It’s dehumanizing for people not to pronounce your name correctly if you work together frequently. It’s not like this is just someone at Starbucks saying it incorrectly (and it doesn’t sound like OP’s name is actually wildly complicated to a native English speaker, there’s just a little “you either know or you don’t” bit with how a vowel is sounded).
Doesn’t really matter if the person has bad intentions, it’s still disrespectful.
I feel like this is the kind of thing that people named Sarah or Tom never think is a big deal, but it really is. It sucks when people who should know better won’t even bother to get your *name* right. Don’t care if y’all are going to flame for that, it’s the hill I’ll die on.
+1000
Yes! Exactly. Thank you for saying this better than I was able to.
As a Sarah with long-time coworkers still write “Sara in emails, it is important to me too.
Yeah, chemo killed my ability to remember names and pronunciations, and it’s mortifying to me each and every time it happens. (I literally mixed up my two blond 40-something neighbors for 40 seconds. It was ridiculous. They are quite different.) I am actively working on coping strategies. Names matter, and I think it’s okay to hold this standard.
THISSSSS!!!
FFS, it’s your NAME.
Agree. It’s inherently disrespectful to not make the effort to get someone’s name right. Especially after several coaching conversations with OP.
“Lighten up, it’s not that big of a deal,” said Tom, whose name was never mispronounced.
The J in Javier isn’t silent… it’s pronounced as the “H” sound typically.
And this contributed to the conversation how?
Ok—I had exactly this thought. It only stood out because this was a post about mispronouncing the OP’s name.
I had the same thought too.
Wait until you cool down and talk to the person again. And as someone with a hard to pronounce name, I suggest letting this go. Is it annoying, sure, but I’ve got way bigger fish to fry in this life.
Yep, this. I also have a hard to pronounce last name and my former boss (of 5 years) basically got it right 1/4 times he said it. I gave up by the end.
It’s not ideal, but you look….off complaining to management over a pronunciation, even if you’re right that’s it’s very disrespectful.
+1. I agree. I have a commonly misspelled first name (think, Kristen vs. Kristin), and a somewhat hard to pronounce last name, and I have just come to the realization that it is easier to let it go when people make mistakes in spelling my first name (at least 50% of the time) or saying my last name.
Caveat that I think it is a bigger issue if your name is misspelled on client facing materials – I missed that part on my first read. I would definitely talk to him again about that.
Both my first and last names have alternate spellings (think Cherie McLaine vs Shari MacLean) and I persistently rage about people who misspell them when they are replying to emails. You can see it RIGHT THERE.
I don’t think it’s something to let go when this is someone that you repeatedly interact with and who you have to talk to regularly. At the very least SPELLING shouldn’t be an issue because they can check that when they know they misspell it often. Speaking may be forgiven if it’s a sound that is not common or difficult to pronounce for English speakers.
This sounds tough. Have you thought about talking to them 1-on-1 again but this time just ask them to start calling you by your last name if they have to introduce you in public again? “I understand in a pinch my name can be easy to mispronounce, if you have to introduce me in public can you just call me Ms. Anon” You can explain that you do not want to have to correct them in front of a large group.
For what it’s worth, I work in an international company where name pronunciations can really vary. When people pick up that someone pronounced a name incorrectly, I think people automatically tend to think less of the person who mispronounced versus the person with the name affected.
+100 to the last sentence. Its disrespectful AND it reflects poorly on the person doing the misspelling and mispronouncing.
And I like to think that kind of karma eventually comes around…
I have a name that has a million different spellings and some people can’t pronounce it either. I just let it go. It’s not worth blowing up over.
As an associate in big law, getting the spelling of a name (especially a partner’s!) wrong on client-facing materials and getting pronunciation wrong after a talk would have been absolutely unacceptable. It shows such a lack of attention to detail, which is a big problem in a business where you’re paid to pay attention to detail.
You’ve already talked with this person. I think it’s totally reasonable to ask the person’s manager to sort it as to your name and to keep an eye on this person’s attention to detail. Isn’t the role of everyone who is not a partner to support the partners?
+1. The mispronunciation I can kind of understand, but spelling the name wrong in marketing material is ridiculous and goes to a general pattern. Checking the spelling of names is a basic thing that should happen. Either the person is incompetent at their job or being disrespectful, either of which are things their boss should now. I wouldn’t raise it with firm management, but with the person’s supervisor.
+2
I’m not great at pronunciation (I try but have definitely tripped up), but you better bet that if I’ve screwed up a spelling once, I’m SUPER careful, especially on outward facing materials. That’s the part that blows my mind.
I have a hard to pronouce Indian name and I’ve never made a big issue of it BUT I WOULD make an issue about my name being mis spelled on client materials OR me being introduced with an incorrect pronunction TO A CLIENT?? It’s one thing if someone doesn’t care internally [it isn’t right but I have bigger fish to fry that fight with some admin] but I’m sorry in a client facing business, it reflects on how we run our business when our non-attorney marketing people don’t even know how to spell or say our names.
I wouldn’t go to mgmt for this because you are a partner yourself – equity vs. non equity is irrelevant, as law firms function as attorney vs. not and partner vs. not. I would go to this person directly and in a very cool/I’m not asking you tone say – you need to start spelling and saying my name right esp for client functions. Here this the spelling, here is the pronunciation, I’ll wait while you write it down/email that to yourself. I’d also say – it cannot happen again that it is spelled or said wrong to a client as it makes us look bad as a firm that we don’t know each others’ names, imagine what they’ll think about our attention to detail? And then walk off – don’t sit and listen to excuses etc. In these situations I always think what would a white man do and I think that’s exactly what he’d do and not sit and listen to excuses about how this employee was tired or stressed or whatever.
+1. Like what if your name was misspelled on a brief? It’s a sloppy mistake by this employee that should never happen, and as the boss you need to communicate that to the employee.
+1
OP is the boss in this situation and the employee needs direct correction. I also think it is worth mentioning in a review.
Yes. He works for you, for crying out loud. It is literally part of his job to get your name right.
You’re avoiding identity in this but I want to be clear that if you are a WOC and/or if this person is a man this is absolutely a microaggression. If you’ve already talked to this person twice I would put it in writing and say “We have discussed this and it continues to be a pattern; the consequences/impact for/on me are XYZ and I need you to fix his.”
100 percent this.
I agree. I didn’t think it was an innocent error when I read your post, OP.
I think you need to talk to this person and say, very clearly, (1) it is disrespectful, and (2) it makes the company look bad in front of clients if someone on the team cannot properly introduce, spell, or pronounce the name of a coworker. I do think this is more than a nothing deal in the context in which it is happening. I have a difficult foreign last night with difficult spelling. When I was a young associate (attorney), I did not mind that partners would sometimes ask for clarification in front of a client for how to pronounce my name. It was well-intentioned, or seemed that way, and it usually led to a lighthearted – “what an unusual name; what nationality is it” convo that let me connect to the client. I’m now a partner, and I would not take it as so cute, because it would signal to the room that I am theoretically going to be leading a case for that I don’t have internal attention/respect/reputation. You are a part owner of the firm and while you don’t need to be treated as royalty, it is important to have respect and some authority in front of clients. You shouldn’t look like someone so unimportant to the org that their name is forgotten / doesn’t come up often enough for folks to know how to say it. It would be different if it was an employee who did not have a working relationship with me and if this happened in an internal meeting; there, I get it, no biggie, that’s life with a hard name. But that doesn’t sound like the situation here.
Is there any sort of ethnicity/nationality aspect to your name where the errors could have a discriminatory intent or effect? If so, I would document and say something like: I have pointed out your mispronunciation and misspelling of my name both in conversation and by email on dates x, y, and z. Yet, on date a, you again mispronounced my name at the blah blah meeting. While I do not like to impute discriminatory intention, it is beginning to feel like your actions are a failure to make the effort to learn a name from a minority (or whatever) culture. If this persists, I will involve HR (or DEI) to assist me in correcting this pattern.
Is this an aging thing? I have completely lost the ability to power through minor illnesses. Case in point, I’ve had allergies this spring and then managed to pick up a cold recently. I was completely useless for two days. I ended up taking sick time to rest. I still don’t feel great today, but the “hit by a truck” feeling has lifted. IDK, I feel like 10 years ago, that would not have been the case. I would’ve been mildly miserable but still able to do something while sick. Either I’m more willing to take care of myself (possible), or illnesses hit me differently now. Early 40s, for reference.
I think it’s less age vs. your overall ‘health bandwidth’ – I can still power through minor illness/cold if I’m already in good shape/sleeping enough/etc. If I’ve been taking care of a sick kid, not sleeping much, traveling, etc. then yes, I definitely need more time to recover. I also simply had less stuff going on in my 20’s and it was totally possible to power through at work, come home, order in, avoid chores (small apartment, lived alone, one pet) and just rest. Now a bigger job, 2 working parents, 2 pets, a bigger home/yard, a kid with special needs, etc, I’m just more thinly stretched.
Ugh, yes, you’re probably right. Two working parents, two kids (one with ADHD), one cat, house/yard, much busier schedules, more stress in general.
I think it’s that you’re more willing to take care of yourself. I’m also in my early 40s and I can still power through if it’s critical but more and more it no longer seems like it’s worth it.
It might be specific to me but when I’m sick the return on taking naps is huge – if I nap I feel better so much faster that the gains of being back to normal sooner overwhelm the gains work done by powering through the illness. (If only 20-something me had been willing to acknowledge this fact.)
I said this on a similar post the other day- some of us have just always been like this. I’ve always been totally wiped out by colds, with a cough that would last for a month or more after (I do have asthma). I’m also in my early 40s, but it actually seems to be a bit better now than when I was younger. Don’t take your health for granted and appreciate it while you have it! That can change at any time.
I’ve always been the same. When I get a head cold I get a massive cold that lasts for a week or more. I often end up with bronchitis.
Not trying to doubt or derail you, but are you sure your cold isn’t covid?
It struck me that your description of a cold that felt like you were hit by a truck for two days and required sick time to languish on the couch was EXACTLY how covid was for me when I had it about a month ago. Not as severe as other illnesses but totally took me out and was impossible to power through.
I have taken a few rapid tests and they’ve been negative. So not ruling it out, but it doesn’t seem likely.
Heads up that the Fold is doing one of their (fairly rare) sales. They usually (but not always) offer a small 10-15% off sale prices code towards the end of the sale so maybe worth signing up for emails if you’re willing to check back. I’ve had back to back travel weeks in this summer (ugh and ugh) and having washable but clearly professional dresses/separate have been lifesavers (high quality and lined crepe/jersey seem to be unicorn pieces so I horde them when I find them!).
Thanks for the tip!
I work full time, am in grad school part time, train for triathlons/half marathons, and still manage to have a good social life so more “domestic” pursuits have fallen by the wayside, which is totally ok by me. I manage to do all of the above and get enough sleep, which is all I can ask for, so I have no interest in cutting back on my activities, but I am looking for everyone’s tips on streamlining cooking/cleaning/errands/chores. Things are clean enough and I’m keeping myself reasonably well fed, so nothing *needs* to change, but I’m sure I can improve upon what I’m doing. What are your best fast but healthy recipes, tips for staying organized, and tips on keeping things running smoothly when busy.
Potentially helpful background: I live and work in a big city – I walk/bike/use transport; I do have a car but don’t use it for errands since parking is impossible. School is mostly online (I rarely go to campus which is 30 mins away), work is hybrid (3-4 days In person, 1-2 remote). I have roommates but will be moving into a one bedroom in September. I’m single with no pets or children.
Ugh why is this in mod for nearly an hour?!
I think the slashes because it could be a link? I stopped including slashes in my comments and they stopped going to mod so often!
Oh thank you! Will remove them going forward
You said t r a n s port
I am you. There are tons of meal prep blogs out there, so pick the one that works well with your dietary needs and cooking style. Right now, because it’s really, really hot, I do my meal prep at night on the weekend, and mostly make stuff that’s good cold. As far as the house and life admin stuff, lowering expectations has been my solution.
Organizationally, having my bike stuff all in one place for quick errand running & workouts was a game changer for me. In my little house, that means the living room. It’s not the most aesthetically pleasing, but it’s all together and ready to grab & go. My run stuff is extremely minimal. I hate carrying things, and don’t care if I look cute or not. My swim bag sits neglected most of the time, but at least everything is all together.
I love Blue Apron. It saves me so much time on grocery shopping and fridge management, and the meals are good enough that my non-effusive spouse compliments two in three. It makes me feel like I’m really taking care of myself. The per-meal cost is about $8, so YMMV, but the portions and ingredient quality are such that I don’t think I could cook the same things for under $6.
Yes, and for me one Blue Apron “serving” is two meals. I eat half for dinner and take the rest to work for lunch.
I start with good intentions to save half for lunch the next day, but it never works out that way. A testament to how tasty they are, I guess.
We’ve been doing a UK version, and it’s just nice not to have to think about it. If I were solo, I’d just eat salads and scrambled eggs, but as these people seem to want feeding, I oblige.
I feel you – I tend to meal prep my lunches for the week as my main meal (brown rice, chicken, veggies) and then have cheese and crackers for dinner. Unfortunately I’m not in the position to cook every night.
When I was single, I would cook about 2-3 dishes a week, each making like 6-8 servings, and eat leftovers for most meals. If you are more into variety than I am you can freeze single servings and then defrost a more varied menu once you build up a freezer stash. I also ate a lot of one dish meals – casseroles, hearty soups, etc. and froz veg or the most basic salad (lettuce with dried cranberries and cashews + dressing) for sides.
For cleaning, one thing you might try is doing one room or task at a time rather than trying to clean the whole apartment at once. Like you might not have time for much but you can clean the toilet in 5 minutes. Your whole place is never clean at the same time but nothing ever gets unspeakably gross.
I eat Starkist tuna creations and crackers for lunch every day! Blue Apron is 3 nights a week, and we use prepared meals the other nights (a splurge, but you could sub Kashi microwave meals e.g.). But yeah. Crackers for the win.
I think we’ve got some skincare junkies on here, maybe? hopefully? just started seeing a dermatologist to discuss cosmetic issues (aging/hyperpigmentation) as well as my regular derm for skin checks. She suggested a silk peel + mandelic peel combo to start (and because these are treatments they do in the summer, versus clear and brilliant). Trying to research I cannot tell the difference between any of these. Has anyone done that combo? Or would I be better off starting with silk peel or mandelic so I can see the effects that only one has?
I did clear and brilliant series for the ‘mask of pregnancy’ hyperpigmentation and for lingering redness from breakouts and it worked amazingly well BUT was costly (roughly 1.2k I think? for 6 sessions with a discount for buying them all at once). You also look red/scaly for a few days after each treatment so I totally agree about waiting till after summer (I did them from November-March). You can do pretty strong ‘peels’ OTC so unless it’s a literal derm grade peel I don’t think there’s a ton of benefit doing that vs. just saving up for the lasers. You can see if FanServiced-B’s blog is still up but she talks a lot about peels, her accutane journey, and focusing on actives that are OTC and work well – she did Accutane a few years before I did and I found her posts SUPER helpful.
If you have sunspots or freckles, IPL is magic. It made a huge difference on my face and I’m planning to do another round this winter.
Anyone have a favorite makeup primer? I have more and more events, so it’s time to introduce it back into the makeup cabinet. It has to play well with sunscreen (EltaMD is my go to), which I wear daily and don’t want a 2-in-1. Thanks!
Smashbox Photo Finish Primer. Gives a very smooth look. I also use a separate sunscreen daily (formerly EltaMD, now ISDIN which is lighter).
This primer is excellent.
I know we talked about this a long time ago, but Monistat Anti-Chafing Powder Gel is a great budget substitute for the high-priced stuff.
I second this. Works great on my combo skin.
I love the hourglass primer. when my skin feels dry I sometimes also layer it with the too faced hangover primer.
For a splurge, Smashbox Photo Finish. For a more budget-friendly, drugstore brand, I love L’Oreal’s Infallible Matte-Lock primer. NYX’s pore filler primer is good too.
Disclaimer that I don’t hesitate to buy high end products when warranted, but for primers my favorites are from ELF. I like the power grip primer, which is a dupe for the milk makeup hydro grip one. I also really like their putty primer, which is a dupe for the Tatcha silk canvas primer.
+3 to SmashBox Photo Finish.
Thanks! I’ll follow the wised on of the crowd and give the mini Smashbox Photo Finish primer a try! Appreciate the guidance!
Late to this, but here’s my two cents.
I have dry skin and like Bobbi Brown products. If it’s a mostly indoor day I use the Vitamin Enriched Face Primer (and also the eye primer, but that’s because I got it free, ordinarily I’d just use the face product everywhere) under a tinted moisturizer with SPF.
If I’m going to be outside more, I use Bobbi Brown primer with SPF and also use a tinted moisturizer with SPF on top.
I tried and did not like the Tatcha silk canvas (too silicone-y) and the Milk Hydro grip (not moisturizing enough and too shiny)
The number one most important thing to me is that my subsequent layers do not pill, so I try to avoid products with a lot of “slip”, which generally comes from silicone. There’s also a whole thing about oil based over oil based, or water based over water base, but the primers I use all seem to work with my tinted moisturizers, which are NARS radiant tinted moisturizer (the best!) or Bobbi Brown Serum Foundation (try to buy it on sale.)
I need help with presenting, both in meetings and larger groups. For whatever reason I have no issues communicating clearly in writing, but when I speak it comes out a jumbled mess no matter how much I have prepared or practiced. I’m willing to invest time and money in this if I could just figure out what to do. I’ve seen Toastmasters mentioned, however it seems like most near me are closed groups affiliated with companies, and I think I learn best in an academic setting. Has anyone tried any of the communications courses offered for executives by the big business schools? Are there other good options? My new company is big on formal presentations, so I need to fix this sooner than later.
I should add practice isn’t the issue, I used to speak all the time and it was still bad, but no one cared at my last job.
How often do you present or do any public speaking now? If it’s not that often, I think practice might truly be the thing you need. I never really did it that frequently before a job change a few years ago and then I had to do it all the time. Truly the practice is what helped more than anything. I’ll never be Barack Obama as a public speaker, but I’ve come a long way! Although tbh if I could have had them, I would have also appreciated professional development-type resources.
Unfortunately it’s not that easy- I presented at least monthly at my last job and never improved.
Request for info: are you practicing WITH the specific content you’re presenting?
Practicing public presentations =/ familiarity with the material. When I did educational programming and museum tours I had to learn the material inside and out to keep myself on pace.
Yes, and I only ever present on things on which I am a SME.
+2 to practice, but not how you’re defining it. It’s not about giving large presentations, it’s about regularly communicating clearly. Practice when you speak up in meetings, 1:1 conversations, etc. Practice the small stuff and the big stuff gets easy.
That is what I’m trying to learn how to do – I cannot practice it since I don’t know what to do. I see what others do and can tell I’m doing it wrong, but I haven’t been able to bridge the gap on my own despite my best efforts which is why I’m asking for outside resources.
Yes, this.
Corporate trainer for 7 years here. The only thing I’ve found to be effective is to do a trial run in front of another human. Practicing by yourself is not the same. Having given presentations in the past is not the same. You have to do a test run of the specific presentation you’re going to do in front of someone else. Could be a colleague or spouse or friend, but has to be another person. Critically, doing practice in front of someone is mortifying the first time you do it, which is exactly why it’s so helpful. You get over the presentation self-consciousness in your trial run and then when you have to give it for real you don’t have the jitters. If it’s intense anxiety that’s the problem, I have friends who use propranolol.
I did this 10 plus times for my most recent presentation and it still didn’t go well.
a. Are you objectively not doing these well (and other people would agree) versus you don’t think you’re doing things well because they’re not as good as you wish they were, but your coworkers would say you’re doing OK?
b. Can you tell us what is going wrong and your best guess as to why it’s happening? examples: you lose track of where you are in your notes and start rambling, your mind goes blank and can’t find a word, you get nervous and your breathing gets ragged and you sound rushed and insecure.
It sounds like you might benefit from specific and personal coaching before and after a presentation. Do you work for a big-enough company that someone in it could help you find this kind of coaching?
a) I am objectively not doing well. It’s hard to get actual feedback in my company due to culture, but the person I practiced for told me I was bad even though I had improved in practicing, and I can tell there’s a difference in how I’m received. No one tells me good job, which they do for others.
b) I get a deer in the headlights look and just freeze periodically, it’s like my brain literally stops working and I have a moment of panic. Even though I don’t feel scared, I sometimes get shaky. I had my last presentation memorized cold and despite this I started saying words in the wrong order. I also had practiced pace and tone and those went out the window so I was monotone and talked way too fast.
Yes my company is big enough for that, I am at a F250, but I need to know what to ask for or propose an outside course to be reimbursed. I’ve exhausted the internal trainings on the topic.
Okay for b – freezing and brain feeling like it stops working, that happens to most of us. I know that in that moment it feels agonizingly long and that you need to fill the space – you don’t. It’s most likely not that long. You can take a minute to take a breath before filling the space. Try and reframe the thoughts when this happens – brain freezes/stops working – instead of thinking OMG/panic – think okay this is normal, breath/slight pause (physically look at the slide or outline or take a drink), then move on. The panic is what causes the jumbled words/fast talking, not the momentary brain freeze.
How do you feel in the moment? If you are writing a script, memorizing it, practicing it 10 times, and still getting jumbled during the big event, I would guess that that anxiety or something similar is to blame. You could try meds or try practicing with your heart rate up or something. Sounds silly, but run a couple of laps or watch a scary movie clip and then dive in.
I practiced in various rooms and locations, including practicing while on a brisk walk and while doing other activities and with distractions in the background. The issue is two fold, even when I had it memorized and was practicing I just don’t present very well as I tend to be monotone and be awkward in general, and then in the moment of the actual thing have all that plus getting tongue tied. I don’t think it’s anxiety because I wasn’t anxious about it at all in my last company since no one cares and had the same issue.
This may sound strange, but do you have the same difficulty when presenting sitting down as you do when standing up?
No, I do not have nearly as much difficulty sitting down. I’m still no star speaker and get flustered, but I don’t get any of the shaking or blanking physical feelings. Why do you ask?
If you tend to be monotone and awkward in general, then “in general” is the place to practice any new skill sets. Get some help in not being monotone or awkward in general interactions; start practicing those skills in simple conversations, meetings, and chats around the office; and it will be easier to communicate well in presentations.
I asked about sitting down because it turned out that orthostatic intolerance (a kind of dysautonomia) was a huge part of this for me. It’s why I was getting symptoms of anxiety without FEELING psychologically anxious when I was presenting while standing. (Apparently if the body is struggling to get blood to the brain, it pumps out adrenaline to try to constrict blood vessels.) When I gave presentations while seated, I didn’t get flustered or blank because the blood was getting to my brain without the adrenaline rush.
It may be worth following up on because there are things that can help (compression garments are amazing) and because it could be part of a larger medical issue (it was an early symptom of an autoimmune condition and vitamin deficiency in my case).
Wow! I’m sure some of my issues are due to just being bad, but you may be onto something as to this contributing. I have an autoimmune disease and unofficially POTS (I have passed out from standing up before and meet the clinical criteria based on home testing). Thank you for sharing!
I really admire your dedication at this! So many people just give up, so props to you in trying to get better.
One of my undergrad degrees was in speech comm, so I took a bunch of speech classes. I liked them a lot and thought they were good; I got a lot of strategies that are handy, and of course the executive geared ones should be more relatable.
Since you are already practicing in front of others, you can try taping yourself and watching it back, looking for those areas of improvements analytically. I wouldn’t normally suggest this because it’s really hard to do too and most people won’t do it, but if you’re already game for practicing in front of others that much, you could try that.
Are you getting nervous energy where everything is coming out jumbled? It may be you need to get the adrenaline out of your body. One of my professors recommended to a student running around the building right before the speech, and it helped calm them down to get back to what they knew. Obv you can’t run around a building, but I have done a version of this – one time I was pretty anxious before a presentation (not about the presentation, but about life in general) and I went in a private bathroom and did 8 sun salutations. Super helped to calm me down; enough to get the energy out, ready for the presentation. You could do some version of this in a private office/bathroom. Just enough to expel some physical effort, not enough to get sweaty or anything.
I also wonder about your presentation material – if you are too outlined and trying to get all of the info in the presentation, you may need to edit it down further to concentrate on hitting your main points vs. getting distracted by all the small supporting points. If you have a lot of sub points to your main point, revisit the outline to see how you can edit out the sub points, or create another main point. Or hit the main points, thoroughly explain them but focus on the main points, not the super detailed info, and reference a document that goes into the very detailed information.
Thank you for the support! These are great tips I can use while I’m trying to find a bigger solution.
Are you preparing from a script or are you going over the material to make sure you know it? If I struggle with a particular presentation, it’s because I don’t have a strong command of the underlying facts or the background on the project. I would hone in on this and make sure you really know things as opposed to having seen them but not memorized them. The positive reviews I get for presenting are really just down to my ability to recall and identify the relevant information during the Q&As, and the confidence I have that flows from knowing the material.
I have tried practicing with bullets as well as memorizing an entire script and practicing that. The latter goes better in that I can fall back on what I’ve memorized during the presentation, but then the delivery is still problematic as I stumble over the words I’m remembering. All of my presentations are on topics I am an expert on. I have been told I may be on the spectrum so that may be part of the issue but I’m determined to overcome it. I know I may never be a great speaker so I am aiming for competent.
I’m like you and sometimes I write down, word for word, what I’m saying. I don’t need to follow it and try to practice without it, but if I get stuck I have something to fall back on. It sounds natural when I speak the script – don’t read if it sounds stiff or weird. Don’t try to memorize a script word for word either, you will get tripped up. Also speak very slowly. If you take a breath, count a pause in your head. Record yourself presenting a slide, watch it, and then record a do-over. It’ll help see where you went wrong. It helps to think of my presentations as me explaining it to one person as a conversation, not a stiff and formal thing.
For what it’s worth, Toastmasters comes with a lot of academic-style resources on speaking on-line and, in particular, speech organization. If you follow your “Pathway,” there’s several projects devoted to organization specifically, but there’s also freestanding articles and resources on different subjects.
I know of a specialist who has helped friends of mine, but I have not used her. Her name is Diane Ripstein, and she is located near Boston. G@@gle her and see what you think. Best of luck!
Improv comedy :)
This is a great suggestion. If one of your issues is coming across monotone, improv or even acting classes may be useful.
Since a lot of your comments are about physical responses in the moment (getting shaky, etc.) maybe talk to your dr about a beta blocker you can take when you have to do these? A lot of musicians and other performers use them. You still get nervous, but without a lot of the physical symptoms.
+1 to this
Follow the outline
1) tell them what you’re going to say
2) say it
3) tell them what you said
Film yourself practicing your presentation. Watch the film. Give yourself notes. Do it again. Repeat as necessary until you’re happy with it.
Short of that you can ask your company to send you to training. Mine did. It was required for people at my level.
I think I”m a good public speaker, and I think a comms class in college made a big difference. The gist of it was regular presentations – and you had to identify things to improve each time. Things like pausing instead of saying um. Keeping your sentences brief. I know this isn’t that helpful over writing – can the person you practiced with help you practice more, when you don’t have a presentation coming up?
Honestly, I think a big part of this is anxiety. Would you consider going to your EAP or a therapist just to talk about this issue for a few sessions? It can be helpful to get to the root cause and to get some techniques to alleviate it.
I am in therapy for anxiety and have been for years and it’s pretty controlled right now. Strangely, this doesn’t feel at all like that. Not sure if it’s a different type of anxiety or what.
I think this is probably the crux: “I tend to be monotone in general.” People react *so much* to speakers’ pacing and tone, and they will forgive a lot of stumbling if you are funny and warm. Since you’ve been told you may be on the spectrum, it may be really hard for you to see what you need to do to hit that! I’m not sure what would help exactly but some ideas:
(1) to break monotone, have you considered singing or singing lessons? You could tell your instructor you’re trying to work on cadence, pitch, and phrasing.
(2) 10 times practicing might not be enough if you’re focusing on the *words*. I might start smaller: can you nail the first sentence? Practice this: smile, look up, take a breath, say sentence one confidently and slowly. Smile again, take a breath. Repeat but say it really fast. Repeat but say it with every other word emphasized. Now repeat with “sentence tone” — your pitch should fall (voice grow deeper) on the last few words. Try sentence tone again. Ask a friend to listen and see if that sounds “better.” If it does, move on to the first three sentences. Then the last three sentences. Then your key transition phrases. With the key transition phrases, add “posting”. So you take a breath, smile, *take a step*, and then say the thing in sentence tone. Even if you’re at a podium, take a step to the side and step back, then say the thing. Smile again. Breathe.
(3) if you think you might be on the spectrum, consider that a therapist who works with adults on the spectrum may have coached on this topic before. Even if you don’t have a formal diagnosis, they might be able to simply break this down into parts that make more sense so you can mask when desired.
You can do this!
*note whenever I say “repeat”, I don’t just mean repeat the words. I mean repeat the process: smile, breathe, speak, breathe, smile. You’re varying the cadence and pitch of speech deliberately with each round, but you are breathing and smiling every time.
I did all of this! But it disappeared in the presentation. I practiced 10 times with a human, I probably did 50 full practice runs AFTER I memorized the material. I feel like this is way harder for me than it should be.
Hugs. That’s hard. You did all of the detailed pacing practice for a single sentence, over and over? How did that sentence go day of?
(the point I am trying to make is that I think you are focusing on trying to be good at an entire presentation, but I think that approach isn’t working for you. I think you need to focus on being warm, engaged, and non-monotone for a single sentence, and only then move on to three sentences, then ten. This is a process that could take months of practice because you’re changing your basic muscle memory of how you breathe and inject tone, eye contact, and smiling into your speech. Running through the same speech 50 times will give you the words, but it doesn’t give you time to slow down and really finesse, such that you change your fundamental habits around speech. That’s why I suggest just trying to work with one sentence until an external observer says “yes!!!!!” with enthusiasm, not just an unenthusiastic “well that’s not as bad.”)
I did this for the first couple of sentences as I wanted the opening to go well. My practice buddy helped me. I did okay at this part and got a laugh, but I still rushed it. I think you’ve hit the mail on the head with the warmth issue. I am not a warm person. I am not cold, but I am quiet and come across as a “robot” according to colleagues. Since I can’t do warmth in real life, of course it’s hard to do it when presenting. Short of changing my personality, how do I get there? Acting lessons?
The other thing about practicing 50 times and memorizing every word is that if you get thrown off (by a brain freeze, a question, a coughing fit) it can be really hard to recover because you’re now off your auto-pilot.
One thing to work on would be practicing a few key intro sentences for each slide but otherwise not trying to 100% stick to a script.
Oh got it! So you did get a laugh. That’s awesome. Congratulations. Can you extend what you did to be successful there slowly? Cat has good advice.
It’s true that you don’t want to change your personality. I wonder if there are any TED talkers who do a good job without using the typical extrovert stuff (smiles, etc.). Best of luck to you.
Long comment in mod, responding in particular to “I tend to be monotone”. I think you can crack this!
Nobody has said it but this sounds somewhat like characteristics of someone on the autism spectrum. The practicing may not be helping because you’re coming at it from an neurotypical angle? I am on the spectrum and unfortunately I always sound a little bit sarcastic unless I am actively masking. It helps me to put on a persona of “Squeak the presenter”. I don’t know if looking at some resources that assist persons on the autism spectrum might help as well.
We use Vautier Communications consulting for this at my company and like it
Just wanted to send you good vibes. I don’t have any advice because I am also pretty bad with presentations – I literally get panic attacks and the only thing that has helped is Xanex. I admire your efforts and wish you good luck – you are doing much better than I would in your situation!!
it’s been 10 years since i did it, but my company paid for me to do communispond training. i found it very helpful.
I teach verbal communication and verbal persuasion to lawyers. Check out this book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56968326-how-to-speak-effectively-in-any-setting
There is also a great courses version of it available on Audible that I highly recommend. The professor is Molly Bishop Shadel who teaches at UVA Law and is phenomenal. The book has specific chapters with specific tips on how to deliver and practice a presentation, including how to practice and work on your speech to combat tone and pacing issues. I like the audible version because Professor Shadel narrates it and in the delivery section does a good job of showing how she uses pacing and intonation to connect with the audience and reinforce what she is saying.
For the voice, have you considered the different elements you could work on? This is your pitch, vocal power (loudness), inflection (how you change pitch over the course of a sentence or paragraph), pauses, pace/speed. I would consider adding emphasis and trying to speak in a ‘natural’ way rather than a ‘presenter’ way to get a more interesting cadence and inflection.
Op, I don’t know if you’re still checking, but on top of all the other great suggestions here, perhaps you can find a way to have shorter presentation opportunities (either add them or change existing). Example that may not apply. Maybe you can handle the agenda for a regular team meeting this summer, “Boss, I am looking for short public speaking opportunities. I know you’ll be out of town a few weeks this summer and I was wondering if I could lead the agenda for our weekly team meeting those weeks. I’d be happy to try the first one while you’re here.” Then you can practice short topic transitions, have plenty of time to pause and collect your thoughts in between topics, etc. Alternatively, perhaps you offer to record a training for the department on XYZ (you can find a way – recording on zoom is free and you could do at your house. There must be something you could do under the pretense of cross training). Record, play back, and ask a couple friends or a speech coach for a critique.
Focus on non discretionary or objective feedback as much as you can: words getting jumbled? Transitions make you lose your place? Going on tangents? Saying “um?” Wildly waving your arms in a distracting way? That’s more objective – everyone says is bad. What I mean by subjective, “I think you should always read your title slide,” “I felt you could slow down for emphasis and speed up when you are reading”- trust a pro, but people have different opinions.
Last, Can you find any patterns? Freezing after you stand, after you stop the memorized portion, after you go more than 3 slides, when you cover recommendations, etc?
Good luck!
I have a friend who speaks at conferences and experiences panic attacks–she takes a low dose of a beta-blocker (I think that is what it is) so she won’t “freeze” and get the fight or flight response. Maybe your doctor would let you trial this….
Need some vicarious shopping help. Looking for a chunky/wide gold-toned Cuban link necklace on the shorter side of length, i.e. 16-18 inches I am not a small woman, I am 5’9″ and size 12, hourglass curvy so I like proportionate pieces. Real gold would be great (even 10k) but realistically is probably well out of budget. Would be willing to spend up to $800-1k, but would prefer to $250-500. Gold-plated is fine. Small businesses preferred. Thank you!
Etsy.
Obviously you won’t get a solid gold necklace at that price but check out Monica Vinader for yellow and rose gold plated sterling silver chain necklaces.
https://www.monicavinader.com/hk/woven-wide-chain-necklace/rose-gold-vermeil-woven-wide-chain-necklace-46cm-18?fo_c=3658&fo_k=e97eced9065784577216ff491506d10e&fo_s=gplasg&gclid=Cj0KCQjwntCVBhDdARIsAMEwACmPhP76F-28TrCitIMa-5mdH7nUsfqfgBUYspWnQQfq0wSn15kbXYQaAibFEALw_wcB
If you want real gold, check out beladora. Gorgeous Italian gold necklaces.
Link to follow.
https://www.beladora.com/jewelry/505147-marina-b-collar-necklace-in-18k-gold/
https://www.beladora.com/jewelry/513987-italian-oval-link-gold-chain-in-18k-by-beladora/
Higher than your target, but Automic Gold has cool chains: https://www.automicgold.com/collections/necklaces
Their Cuban chain is $3k but they have others that might work for you.
May be too thin but real gold. https://www.therealreal.com/products/jewelry/necklaces/chain/14k-cuban-link-chain-necklace-e13sw
Whoa – the price on that seems too good to be true!
Italic? https://italic.com/products/gold-curb-chain?Color=Yellow+Gold
Has anyone had this – somehow I got to my 40s without aches and pains and lately my shoulder has been a problem. Shoulder blade pain which occasionally stretches down to the bicep or up to the neck. If it’s in the shoulder blade you can def feel pain [though not sharp or awful or anything] and when it stretches to the bicep or neck, it more just a mild ache. I tend to notice it most after work and I know I have bad posture so it makes me feel like it may be how I’m sitting all day. After work I’d work out [not arm related, usually walking/running] and oddly that’s when it’ll hurt though as I continue my work out it gets better.
Lately I’ve woken up with the same shoulder pain and then it takes a while to fall asleep again; one time it was really obvious that I was sleeping with my entire weight on my left shoulder.
Anything to be done here besides Advil? Could it be posture related? This doesn’t seem dr. worthy to me but it is nagging in a way I’ve never had before.
I think it’s doctor worthy. Or anyway, I always regret trying to work on things like posture while suffering for weeks when after I finally relent, one or two physical therapy sessions just fixes it, and then my posture is effortlessly improved as well.
I had shoulder pain and went to a chiropractor for an unrelated issue and mentioned it to him. Turned out I had a rib out. Two appointments and good as new!
Mine was a shoulder blade that was out of place, but same thing – I had exactly the neck pain/tension OP is describing, and I went to the chiropractor and she did some work on my upper back and shoulder, and gave me some PT exercises to do at home. Resolved the issue in two visits over two weeks, doing the PT in between. Much better solution IMO than popping painkillers all the time.
Is your pelvis uneven? I get shoulder/neck pain because one side of my pelvis is higher than the other. I sleep on my side and I think that’s the major cause of this issue. It’s improving with targeted exercise and pilates.
Go to a doctor.
I’m at the physical therapist twice a week right now, and I think half the patients are working on shoulder pain. This is doctor- and PT- worthy.
Physical therapy. Various kinds of ergonomic issues can sort of build on themselves over time, so while you’re experiencing what seems like an acute problem you can just fix by sitting better, you may actually have a chronic problem requiring various approaches (posture stuff, but maybe also stretching and strengthening) to fix and it may take time.
I personally was sure that the right side of my neck was tight and required stretching/massage; having seen a PT I now know it’s way *over* stretched/irritated and the left side is tight. Various exercises from the PT (who i was able to see via Zoom) have been really helpful; nothing i was doing on my own would have been because I was so wrong about the cause of the issue.
Nothing but commiseration, and agreement that you need to see a doctor. I saw mine and had a steroid shot, and now I’m talking OTC naproxen sodium, 2 pills twice per day. Shoulder problems are notoriously difficult.
One thing I did was bought some lounge bras that fasten in the front and they’ve been a game changer. I couldn’t get my bras fastened in the back workout a lot of pain, and getting my bralettes off over my head was worse.
I bought the Leading Lady lounge bra. I will post a link separately.
This is the one. It’s basically like a softer sports bra made from t shirt material.
LEADING LADY Women’s Cotton Front-Closure Leisure Bra https://a.co/d/d5UIplu
Wait, you mean you actually put your bra on the “right” way by hooking it in the back, rather than by hooking it in the front and then twirling it around to the back and pulling it up? I am astonished.
Chiropracter and ART are excellent for this stuff.
I like sports doctors for things like this. They can give you stretches or exercises or send you to a PT if needed.
I have a younger relative who is going to college next year, and she is the first in her immediate family (and first in her extended family other than me) to go to college. I went to college more than 20 years ago and had a rough time, for various reasons including hazing, harassment, just not having enough support resources, and being a cultural outsider. I think times may have changed a bit regarding college culture (but that’s just a hope/guess). What kind of support resources can you think of for a college goer who is cultural outsider. My relative is very introverted (is this a pandemic or cell phone culture thing?) and grew up even more culturally isolated (e.g., in the ethnic enclave) than I did, so I’m a bit worried that she might not have the skills or abilities (adulting, resilience, etc.) to handle going to college and having major set backs. How can I help her so that she doesn’t have to be resilient through all the things I had to?
Could she meet alumni ahead of the start date? That would really help to get a feel for things so she is more prepared.
first of all – what is your relationship like with her? bc i think that depends on how you can help. idk where she is going to college and not all colleges are created equal in this regard, but many schools now have offices or services geared towards first gen students or students who might struggle a bit more with the adjustment (i work at a university and we have such an office), most colleges now have counseling/wellbeing offices, there are tutoring centers, etc. i realize that not all the resources that schools offer are perfect or great, but depending on your relationship with her, maybe identify these offices in advance so you can help her figure out where to go if she does have a problem.
Colleges invest a lot in student support these days (including for first-gen students). Connecting early with whatever sources of support exist at her college could help her get to know the institution and its expectations. It can also create a paper trail that shows she’s trying, and it can make her known to people who can look out for her if she does face setbacks.
In other words, it’s wise not to wait until problems arise to start building relationships with the people in student support services, and it’s wise to keep connecting with those sources of support even if they don’t seem helpful (because the record of having done so can itself be helpful).
Yep definitely, it’s hard to secure exceptional circumstances if there isn’t some sort of trail.
I had to tell a student he couldn’t go abroad because he screwed up and just didn’t tell anyone… I think a mix of naïveté and shame.
Does her college do a special induction for first gen kids? I teach first year college students and the big academic things are – navigating the course management system and looking up things in the library, asking for help – permission to do it and where to go, and general confidence around speaking in class. And plagiarism, so much plagiarism. It’s rife these days, I sat as a law school and b school external panel (undergraduate) this month and it is bad.
Maybe kids get everything online these days but honestly I think a how to college book might be really helpful? Just everything in one place, it could be in her room when she needs it.
+1. I work in a community college and we have lots of wrap-around resources, including support for first-gen students. And my undergrad had programs aimed at supporting first-gen students throughout their freshman year – I think they even had a housing option where they could room together.
My college did a special first-gen induction and while it was (back in the day) optional, I think it was really helpful for my roommate. I was a pretty run-of-the-mill middle class brat, so I could sympathize with her but I didn’t really have any useful advice for some of the things she went through that year. For instance, my parents were delighted I lived 8 hours away and were content with a once-a-week phone call, her mom had a very hard time with the fact that roommate wasn’t living at home and could only visit home once a week or so.
I think this greatly depends on her school. What’s the school (or at least type of school – ivy, big state, small state, private, public – and region) and what’s the cultural enclave?
Cultural enclave – really religious culture, where “people behave well” or at least only show their most well behaved selves to the world (not been exposed to alcohol, people behaving badly)
Big NY state school
Woof, okay – this is going to be a rough combo, just to be totally honest. I think you ideally should help her research resources available for first gen students, and just be there for her – visit often, always be there for a phone call, and do what you can to get her connected with resources ahead of time.
The challenge with big state schools is that you become a number – you dropping out doesn’t really affect their statistics in the way it would at a small college, so it’s much less personal. The positive is that they tend to have more resources for non-traditional or first gen students – you want to get her connected with those resources ASAP.
Can she look into living in a specialty dorm of some kind? I don’t know exactly what exists at all the big NY publics but a lot of time there are honors dorms or public service dorms that are much smaller and have specialty programs in them
My college had a specific program for first Gen college students. Check and see if hers does and if so, she should totally attend. They had similar diversity programs and the school invited students of all types of diverse populations: racial/ethnic, first gen college students, students from far away, socioeconomic diversity, etc.
Once she’s on campus, I’d recommend she find a group/club related to your ethnic group: regardless of how tied she wants to remain ti the group, there’ll be students like her (so some wanting to remain very closely aligned and some who are breaking out of growing up in an ethnic enclave and want to diversify their experience). These groups may be a club based on a shared identity (BSA) or more activity based (Indian dance group).
I am sorry you had a rough time in college! Could she look into in advance what groups are on campus that might interest her – there might be a minority support group, or even a religious affiliated one – that might be helpful. Or really being a part of any club, volunteer group or sport – just something so that she has a group that she belongs to might help. Also is there a way to connect in advance with her roommate or kids attending the same college from her city? It may be too late but some colleges have summer programs that she could attend or look into whether there is a way to visit the campus over the summer to get some familiarity with where things are. You might also plan to send her care packages regularly and of course check in with her or meet for a meal every now and then. Wishing her the best!
Echoing others here, my school (Davidson College) has support resources specifically for first gen students. With the start of classes being about 2 months away, I recommend your relative reach out to the admissions office of their school to see what support services exist for first generation students. Also, I’d ask about any alumni gatherings over the summer in your area.
I wish I knew the answer to this. I was such a cultural outsider at my ivy league college (first gen, from rural area). I still remember pulling up and seeing kids being dropped off in BMWs AND MERCEDES and hearing my roommate talk about a trip to NORDSTROM for shopping, and feeling so completely out of my depth. I actually TOOK PHOTOS of the BMWs in the parking lot, which I then developed at the local drug store and mailed (hello, early 00s) to my friends from home to say “can you believe the people I go to school with?” I was so out of it, I didn’t even realize these type of people existed on any real scale where I would encounter them.
I drank myself into the hospital the first night back junior year and nearly dropped out numerous times …
Beyond just the terrible flashbacks that your post gave me, all I can offer concretely is that: what I wish I had realized is that just because these other kids were richer and more worldly, did NOT mean that they were smarter. I was scared to take “tough” classes and speak up and learn, and it took me years to realize that I was every bit as smart (dare I say, smarter) than many of them. I let a lot of opportunities pass me by while I tried to gird up my confidence.
I was in the honors classes at my undergrad and I remember being SO intimidated at the start of the “honors seminar” at the beginning of the year. By the end of it I felt much better because not only was the class ridiculous, plenty of the students were too.
Similarly, in the early 2000s, I saw a friend in HS (in Manhattan) take a yellow cab home from school because it was raining and I was shocked. Growing up in an immigrant enclave in an outer borough, I literally thought cabs were…. I have no idea but like insanely expensive. I couldn’t imagine someone just jumping in one on a whim because it was convenient. Total culture shock!
My freshman year roommate used her Nordstrom shopping bags as garbage bags, that’s how frequently she went shopping. It was insane.
Omg the trash bags – that sounds like it could have been a sight gag on SATC.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the school had a program for first gen college students. You could help her look for one, or at least a club/group.
Thankfully, many colleges are doing a much better job supporting first-gen students than they did 20+ years ago. Encourage her to find those resources and use them early, and often. Encourage her to join groups with other people in her major to start building a smaller community within a big university. Are there groups/clubs that are composed of people with her background and/or ethnicity? And probably most importantly, let her know that you’re a safe person to come to if she needs help or advice.
There’s definitely an advantage to having parents who went to college, especially parents who were serious about college. (Mine went and barely graduated, which made it hard on me… they basically were like, “you’re smart, why do you study so much?” I dunno, because chemical engineering doesn’t learn itself???)
I think there’s a lot of pressure to either manic pixie dream girl your way through college (“Do what you love and the money will follow!”) or to decide what you are doing for the rest of your life *right now.* IMHO, she should pick an area to study that has something resembling a career path, then take other courses (art, anthropology, classics) for fun. A lot of wealthy students have the luxury of choosing to study something fun; they have networks that will get them a job based on the degree alone, or they are going to grad school and just need a good GPA.
It can take a while to find friends and that’s fine. Great advice I received, as a huge introvert, was to not say I didn’t have friends until I had talked to everyone at my university. I crawled out of my shell, started talking to people who seemed kind and fun, and met lifelong friends. The framing really helped me feel like it was okay if one “friend date” didn’t work out – the point wasn’t to be friends with everyone, just to meet everyone and see who clicks.
Join campus groups and see what clicks, especially if they have ones for your culture. They can be a huge source of support.
I haven’t read it, but there’s a book called “The Secret Syllabus” that may be helpful.
Does anyone know of a good divorce lawyer in California (San Diego area)? Urgently needed. My best friend’s husband is suddenly and aggressively pushing that they should separate and “open their marriage” to other people because his needs “may be too much for one person.” I just learned from her that has been emotionally abusing her as well. He is always traveling and I strongly suspect drugs and other women are involved. She is in shock as this is out of no where to her, and they have two kids under 5. He is now saying he needs to move money from their personal account to his business because his business is having “cash flow issues”. His business is worth millions. I think she needs to talk to an attorney ASAP right??
i have no suggestions, but hugs to your friend. yes, she needs to talk to an attorney ASAP (and ideally more than one so they are conflicted out of representing her husband).
My husband the family lawyer recommends Steve Temko, 858-274-3538. It looks like he does mostly appellate work but if he can’t take the case he can certainly recommend somebody.
And of course she needs to talk to an attorney before she does anything (anything other than put some money in an account with only her name on it).
See the top divorce attorney in the county asap as in tomorrow!!! Also start an individual bank account at a different bank from where they may share funds.
Not San Diego, but one of the best divorce firms in the state — which specializes in divorces involving high net worth families, businesses, or both — is Blevans & Blevans in Santa Rosa.
Try Sarah T. Schaffer in San Diego – your friend can google her. A family member of mine was a well-respected divorce attorney in SD and refers cases to Sarah still. Good luck!
Best pants hangers? Are there are any that don’t cause big creases?
I use a skirt hanger with clips
+1
I use hangers that allow the pants to hang full-length — some of mine clamp onto the hem of the pants, some of them are like skirt hangers that clip onto the waist.
I desperately need some new tees and tanks in solid, bright colors to wear with shorts. Where have you found good ones recently? I like the styles and colors at J Crew Factory, but I’ve noticed that they get misshapen quickly. I know myself well enough to realize that I’m not always going to remember to hang-dry them, and frankly, that’s more work than I want to put into a t-shirt. Old Navy’s colors are ugly and unflattering at the moment, so I’ve ruled those out.
I like Everlane’s tees a lot, but their current color selection is absolutely terrible. I just ordered some from Quince but they haven’t arrived yet, so no review yet, but they are quite cheap.
The current color selection is the worst. I don’t understand offering a range of colors that only look good on the same, limited range of skintones.
I’m a broken record, but Tee Rex and V-Rex at Universal Standard. They are great and flattering. Good number of colors. I’d wait one weekend as I suspect there will be a 4th of July sale.
Also love them, but they say to lay flat to dry, which is even worse than hanging to dry. Have you dried in the dryer with success?
Ha, I didn’t even read that. Yes, I have, but I admit my shirt is new and I haven’t worn it post-dryer. I will post back once I check. Their chambray did fine in the dryer.
I put mine in the dryer and it’s been fine – I am replacing them because I’ve changed sizes, but could definitely keep wearing them.
My favorite tees are from Garnet Hill–great quality. A little more than I like to spend, but wear well for years. Others: athleta, land’s end, boden, talbots).
Check out Columbia and Eddie Bauer – they tend to have brighter colors.
I tend to get belly holes in mine fast no matter how sterling the quality seems (persistent belly I guess), so I just go for affordable. I’m not wild about their colors but think Uniqlo’s supima tees are pretty decent for the price, and this year I got a couple of Gap’s organic cotton vintage v neck. The Gap ones are slightly lint-magnety (kind of fuzzy – very soft) and generously cut; size down if you are between sizes. You can get them for about ~$10 on sale; ditto for Uniqlo.
PS – the Gap ones have good colors (IMHO).
I just ordered four pairs of LINED wool pants from TRR at an average cost of $40/pair and I feel like I’ve won the lottery!
Amazing
What is TRR
The Real Real
Looking for books with just kissing for my kid…
So my ten year old has been not so secretly reading my romance novel collection (which I find hilarious because that’s how I also got into reading romance novels, though perhaps when I was more like 12 or 13…). However, she says that she wants more books with just kissing – which I’m relieved because I wasn’t quite ready for her to be reading graphic gardening scenes, even though we’ve definitely had the basic s*x talk.
Suggestions for books for her? My collection is mostly historical stuff from the 90s and early 2000s- Judith Ivory, Mary Jo Putney, etc. Is this where I hand her Sweet Valley High books? I never read those and I don’t love the idea of my mixed race child reading books that uphold a blond hair/blue eyed beauty ideal. I feel like there was a whole genre of pulpy teen romance novels I devoured when I was growing up (the Sunfire series, anyone?)
What would you give my kid? Vintage teenage pulp? Clean adult romance? Or is there anything similar written these days for tweens?
Jeannie Lin is sexy but not graphic, I believe. There is sex but mostly adventure and kissing. Juliet Marillier is similar.
Oh, and Alyssa Cole. None of those authors take blonde hair/ blue eyes as the beauty ideal, but Juliet Marillier does often set things in Ireland/England, so characters are “white” (ish, I don’t know if historic Celtic culture really counts as white).
Alyssa Cole has great, non-white characters, but in the only I read (An Extraordinary Union) the s*x was pretty graphic.
Eek, maybe I have forgotten. It’s been a couple years. Thanks for checking me!
Ugh, in mod, but also Alyssa Cole.
I’m pretty sure Sarah Dessen only has kissing in them – maybe a nod or fade to black for anything more for vintage-ish contemporary teen romance (although, I believe that one of her books is being turned into a Netflix series, so perhaps she’s more relevant than I think). If she likes fantasy/knight stuff look up Tamora Pierce – vintage-ish written for a teen audience, strong romantic elements. Ann Rinaldi for historical fiction (most of which are romances). I still read Time Enough for Drums every couple years as an adult. These are all things I loved at the same age, but there’s also a booming teen fiction market out there now, bringing her to Barnes and Nobel in the teen section would work (many of those books stop at kissing).
+1 to all three of your recs, though Tamora Pierce books have some banging (get it Alanna).
I was telling my wife the other day I always wanted my YA novel summer, where I fell in love on a beach vacation or at my quaint job. Never got it. Oh well.
Oh and ask your local children’s or YA librarian! If you feel comfortable they would have plenty of recs.
Seconding the Tamora Pierce rec, “Protector of the Small” quartet doesn’t have any actual sex as I recall, but generally I think even the Alanna books have a light hand with the concept. They were some of the first books I read where I surreptitiously looked up like “there’s sex in here!”. Fond memories!
The Summer I Turned Pretty is also good, and all the other Jenny Han books. I would also recommend E. Lockhart generally and Deb Calletti (though some of her books deal with other serious subject matter). While I think Eleanor & Park is somewhat problematic, Rainbow Rowell also has some other good YA romances. Oh and Eva Ibbotson has some wonderful classics that both my mom and I enjoyed!
Hah! I was vacationing in a small town a couple weeks ago and there was a lady who ran a cheese shop- she was divorced with a small child and she said that when she got divorced she decided to fulfill a lifelong dream and open a cheese shop. I’ve decided if I ever write a romance novel, she will be the heroine.
Oh I forgot about Ann Rinaldi! I loved her books when I was a tween.
She is good and I also loved Tamora Pierce! Protector of the Small and the Circle books are less sexy than Alanna.
I’m sure some others will have specific suggestions, but I found this list on Book Riot, which I trust!
https://bookriot.com/middle-school-romance-books/
If you want to do some searching, I think you’re looking for middle grade romance or maybe YA romance. Some YA romance books have more than kissing, though!
There’s a new one out called “I Kissed Shara Wheeler” by Casey McQuiston that a friend of mine loved. There’s kissing shown on the page and some references to going further, but that is just referenced and not shown. I’ve read Casey McQuiston’s other books (definitely more than kissing!) and they’re both great. That one might be slightly too mature for what you’re looking for, but just to throw out some options.
Anything by Ann Rinaldi! Historical fiction with some romance woven in, depending on the novel, but kissing at most. I found them to be very educational at that age but also super fun. I credit her with my interest in history (and eventually majored in US history).
“Anatomy” by Dana Schwartz would be perfect! The anatomy stuff is about medical anatomy. There’s kissing, but nothing else. It’d be nicely suited for your new romance reader!
Dana Schwartz is also the voice of a great podcast that I first learned about here: Noble Blood.
Hahahaha! My mom bought me the Sunfire romance series when I was a young teenager after I got caught reading my aunt’s rather explicit Harlequin romance novels. I don’t think those are in print any more and even if you can find used copies, they’re probably not really written with modern sensibilities/values/beliefs taken into account. I just think it’s funny that I was apparently not the only cheeky young reader who got caught reading stuff I shouldn’t have been reading.
Meg Cabot has some YA style traditional romance – Victoria and the Rogue, Nicola and the Viscount, and one “written by” the heroine of the Princess Diaries series. The Princess Diaries eventually has tame sex references and a lot of talk about virginity, but there is a middle-grade spin off featuring a biracial half sister that may or may not have romance in it.
Otherwise, maybe try fantasy books with a romance elements? Ella Enchanted, Princess Ben, I think Patricia Wrede has some romance in her series. May be worth a visit to the YA section of your local library. There are plenty of YA authors who have romance books – Sarah Dessen, Rachel Vail, and more. If you search for middle grade romance novels you’ll probably find newer, cooler stuff that I’m too old to know about.
Oh I LOVED Ella Enchanted! One of my favorite books growing up.
If she likes older stuff, Georgette Heyer is the queen of regency romance I think.
I think Courtney Milan and Kresley Cole both have teenage series. I read the first book in Kresley Cole’s doomsday series, The Arcana Chronicles, and found it a bit jarring when the characters had lots of heated kissing but not sex (b/c MC wants to keep her virginity in tact).
I’d also note that historical fiction has changed greatly in 20 years, particularly with regard to consent, female pleasure, and chauvinist, alpha heroes. The older stuff is way more “alpha male is surprised he loves the hot woman he likes having sex with” — newer stuff is more “smart, adventurous heroine is trapped in sucky time period but happens to fall in love and they both respect each other and the sex/oral is mindblowing.” I’d be more wary of letting my daughter read the older stuff than the newer stuff tbh.
Oh and maybe To All The Boys I Loved Before? There are three or four in the series and there might be one sex scene at the end, I forget, but the characters are in high school, the lead is Asian American, and it’s very sweet.
If you’re on Goodreads, go to Listopia and do a search. There are several lists, but the list “CLEAN Romance Books” has 2,640 entries voted in by readers. Most popular (highest votes) at top of list. I think you may find some good ideas there.
And, yes, definitely ask a librarian. They are used to this kind of question.
If you could be mine by Sarah Farizan.
It’s about a lesbian couple in the Middle East and it’s just kissing.
Just when I gave away all my presiding-at-Rotary-meetings dresses because I thought I wouldn’t need them, I have been pressed into service for another term as president (long story but it’s short notice) and I need some dresses STAT. Where would you look for a good selection at a brick and mortar store? I was thinking Macy’s? Talbots?
Why do you need Rotary-specific dresses? What exactly is the Rotary dress code? You buy a lot of clothes, are you sure you don’t already own things that are appropriate?
Rude. Not what she asked about. Not appropriate. Check yourself.
Heh that’s just my shorthand for “solid color dresses that are office appropriate and also good for leading a meeting.”
I have changed my wardrobe a lot since the pandemic and, as I said, gave away almost everything that’s appropriate.
why do you need dresses specifically? Like – are pants and a blazer too modern for the Rotary crowd?
Maybe she also doesn’t have pants and blazers? Or maybe she likes dresses? If someone likes new clothes and can afford them, I see no issue with buying what you like when you want to feel comfortable and confident for a new (or new/old) role.
SA isn’t a teenager and you all aren’t her parents, so cut it out with questioning why she “needs” dresses.
ok well I asked because there is a serious dearth of mid-priced office dresses available in stores right now. It is 70% rufflepuff and 30% slinky.
Talbots, at least in my area, is going to have more work dresses than Macy’s right now.
Talbots has been miserably short on work dresses lately. It’s all cookout dresses. (I’m somehow on their advisory panel, and every single time I take a survey, I holler at them in the comments to BRING BACK WORKWEAR!) They do have cute blazers though – maybe you could work a new blazer in with pants you already have?
Honestly, the only place I’ve found work clothes is Poshmark, sadly. There is simply nothing for sale for work in brick and mortar stores other than the one sad polyester dress in the back corner offered in black or navy. (I just went through this 3 weeks ago in DC in advance of having clients in town.)
Jinx! I’m on the advisory council too & I’m always saying that I’d like some professional clothes. Glad we are saying the same thing.
So glad to know there’s someone else out there asking for work clothes! I never know how their buyers skew (some seasons things look awfully Alfred Dunner, so is everyone in a retirement home except for Rettes? I can’t tell some seasons!)
I don’t think there are any brick and mortar stores carrying work dresses right now. I’ve done a ton of shopping this spring because of some body changes and I don’t see anyone carrying sheath dresses or work dresses, much less ones with sleeves. They just aren’t in right now. I was able to find a sheath at Theory, and a hugo boss dress that kind of is appropriate for work if I wear a jacket over it, but that’s about it. I also bought a cute shirtdress at Talbots, which I love, but it’s definitely more in the cookout than the work category.
Okay, reporting back from my lunchtime shopping trip:
Talbots had only cookout dresses. Ugh.
Macy’s had a pretty big selection of dresses, most of which were dressy, but a good number of which were workish. Alas, most of them were (ahem) below my taste level. I did, by some miracle, manage to find a dress in the exact shade of medium green that is featured in the Rotary theme materials for the new Rotary year, and I’m calling that a huge win as I will wear it at the first meeting. Also held my nose and bought another dress despite the exposed zipper.
Ann Taylor had one navy work dress that was fine, but I couldn’t bring myself to pay $170 for it because it was just so blah.
Tomorrow I am going to try Nordstrom.
Keep stalking that Ann Taylor dress because they will have a sale. I never buy Ann Taylor at full price. Never. Good scores and good luck with your shopping!
Oh, good idea! Thanks!
HAHAHAHA the hold-your-nose-exposed-zipper dress is the one the Rotary International president is wearing in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YOQrJ1tX9s&ab_channel=rotaryclubofmadison (first woman international president, yay!)
Last I gained some pandemic weight and still needed to dress up for my job when we were back in the office last year. I just rebought my favorite MM Lafleur dresses one size up on their resale site second act. I also get a few things from Amazon that I routinely get complimented on. While quality and fit does matter, I also find having really nice accessories takes some of the focus away from fabrics that aren’t as high end. Good luck SA!
nordstrom ftw. fold is having a sale for the second meeting you have to go to.
Where would you put a sleeper sofa? In the basement (fully finished, decent sunlight, and a half bath) or in the family room (which gets little foot traffic but has no door)?
We have a guest room but this is for a “just in case we have too many guests” type thing.
growing up we actually had one in both, but the basement had a full bath. i’d do basement. the sleeper sofa in the family room was only used once a year at Thanksgiving for one night when we had a lot of people sleeping at our house
Thanks all for the input! I didn’t think ppl would prefer to sleep in the basement but I guess that’s just me!
This is not what you recommended but I love the idea of both!
Basement for sure. No one wants to sleep in a public space with no door.
+ 1,000
+2. Basement without question.
Great idea! Though size availability of trousers like these is always an issue.