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Thursday’s Workwear Report: Knit Blazer

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. I love collarless blazers for a more relaxed, but still put-together look. This yellow knit blazer is very bright, very cheerful, and very much on sale! I would wear this with a navy or light gray sheath, but it would also look great with dark jeans in a casual office. The blazer is $53.40, marked down from $89, and is available in regular sizes 0–18 and petite sizes 0P–14P. It also comes in a really cute navy stripe. Knit Blazer For plus sizes, try this blazer from Kasper, which is $98.41 at Amazon and comes in 14W–18W. This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support! Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. Pictured on Pin: one / two / three / four / five

Sales of note for 12.5

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

369 Comments

  1. I work at a startup where the office is literally a bunch of tables in a room. I have my own half a table + chair + monitor + a plant, but other than that everything is very open. What would you bring to work or to your table to make this type of set up more comfortable?

    Yes this isn’t ideal but it makes sense for this startup right now, it’s actually a very professional environment, overall I’m fine with this I was just looking for some ideas for my table since we spend so much time at work. I can bring in basically anything you would like in your office – a rug, my own lamps, etc – although some of that seems too fussy for me.

    1. Like to personalize it? Not much, if anything.

      To make it more comfortable, I’d probably buy foam board and holders to create walls because the open concept provides to much distracting open space and inhibits my ability to focus.

      2. I worked at a similar kind of place and it’s the #1 reason I left, but putting up partitions would not have been well received at all. I had my own chair, a picture of some loved ones, a coffee mug I liked, and some nice (but still office appropriate) accessories (pencil holder, office organiser, etc). I also had a filing cabinet with some essentials – a spare pair of shoes, a small toiletries case, sound-proof earphones, and a wrap for chilly days.

      4. Yeah … you can’t do this. If an open office is a dealbreaker, it is probably not the right job for you.

    2. Unless the general lighting situation is amazing, I like an adjustable LED task lamp on my desk. Other things I like to keep nearby: tissue box, pencil organizer, post-it notes, coaster if the surface needs it.

    3. There isn’t enough space to personalize your half desk, keep it minimal and maybe do a plant to clean the oxygen for when people are coughing it up during flu season.

      1. The oxygen is plenty clean – it isn’t carrying the flu virus (virus outweighs it by a lot). And a plant doesn’t do much to scrub viruses out of the air?

        Better off bringing a container of Clorox wipes and wiping down all your surfaces on a regular basis.

    4. The oxygen is plenty clean – it isn’t carrying the flu virus (virus outweighs it by a lot). And a plant doesn’t do much to scrub viruses out of the air?

      Better off bringing a container of Clorox wipes and wiping down all your surfaces on a regular basis.

      1. Don’t put your own art on a communal wall, that would be so weird. And also don’t just commandeer your own table if you don’t know how that would go over office politics-wise.

    5. I have worked at a space like this for 5 years, plus we don’t always have permanently assigned tables (consultants so most of staff is always somewhere else…).

      I pared down my personalisation to two things:
      – one of those large blanket type scarves over the back of my chair so I can put it on when the male majority cranks down the AC
      – one pretty and stylish organizer (think pencil holder) where I keep some pens, post its, lipstick, hand cream… that I can easily take with me.

      Some people have plants too (those in more permanent tables).

      Things my office already provides at every desk but if they didn’t I would bring them (or ask for them!):
      – box of tissues
      – post-its
      – foot supports and monitor stands
      – not at desks but we have a bookshelf grid kind of thing in the room with boxes for each of us where we can store things like a second pair of shoes (not smelly), old notebooks, basically anything extra you don’t need every day but sometimes. We also have hangers on the side where people keep a wsrmer jackets or a blazer for emergencies for example.
      – they also provide coffee tea mugs cutlery etc in the kitchen

      Things for extra personalization:
      – get a mouse mat printed with an image that inspires you or from your family
      – your own mug if you like
      – one picture
      – a second pretty organizer if you need more knick knacks

      If you run really cold (but know your office for this): small heater under desk

      I think in a space like this the golden rule is to try to keep clutter (even visual clutter) to a minimum so it doesn’t distract others and personalise and make it comfy within that constraint (hence the organisers suggestion).

  2. Hi ladies, I’m probably searching for a unicorn here but I wondered if anyone had any recs for a very comfortable, flexible and light walking shoe that is waterproof? My dream shoes would be as comfortable as a pair of Skechers or Allbirds but wouldn’t let water in! I’m based in the UK so brands I can buy here would be preferred, but I am going to be in the US early next year so any and all recs would be welcome! The only shoes I seem to be able to find that are waterproof are stiff structured walking boots, and I really want something light and flexible that will keep my feet dry on easy strolls in the rain!

    1. I haven’t tried them on and cannot vouch for them, but there was a pop up near me for Vessi Footware (Canadian) for a waterproof sneaker that promised to be all of those things. Findable on google. Again, this is not an endorsement, but I can confirm they are a real company that sold their stuff in a major mall.

      1. I really wish I knew about Vessi before I bought my Allbirds, because they are basically Allbirds that are waterproof. My friend has a pair that she wore all through our slushy Canadian spring and she confirms the waterproof claim. Unfortunately, they can’t keep up demand so they’re not available right now.

      2. Ooh these sound good – will definitely look into them! Thanks both for the recommendation ( and great to know your friend confirmed they are waterproof!)

    2. Blondo makes waterproof sneakers that are comfortable and reasonably light weight. I don’t know if they’re sold in the UK; I got mine at Nordstroms.

      2. Yes, I have slip on Blondos that work great for this purpose. I got mine on Zappos.

      1. Oh my goodness I didn’t even know these were a thing! And I can get some in the UK! So cute, thanks for the rec!

    4. Plug here for trail running shoes. They’re my go to when it’s wet and I want to run. Plus is that they have excellent grip in the rain.

        1. I’m a big fan of Saucony trail running shoes. They’re incredibly durable, comfortable, and you can find multiple options under $100

          1. Looks like I can get these in the UK and they are really reasonably priced, thanks so much!

    5. They are not completely waterproof, but have you tried slip-on Vans? I’ve found that mine let in very little water because the sole kind of wraps around the very edge of the top.

    6. My strategy is to go in the opposite direction and wear water-friendly sandals like Tevas or Chacos — would that work for you?

      1. Thanks, thats something I will defintely consider for summer :) In UK it would be too cold for most of the rest of the year – socks are definitely needed!

      2. I second this, I brought a pair of Tevas to Japan in mid August, could hike moderate hikes with them and they were cute for the city with casual dresses and shorts.

    7. I think you need trail running shoes, like the Goretex options from Brooks or similar brands.

  3. Any indoor cyclists out there? What shoes do people recommend? Tiems were recommended by a friend who is a spin instructor but at $130 + clips, I’m not sure I want to go that expensive. In theory I can afford it but if there is a cheaper shoe that someone could recommend I’m all ears. My foot trends wide, but I don’t need a “wide” shoe… just not one that fits particularly narrow. I’m new to spin shoes (lots of spinning in my past but all in sneakers). TIA.

    1. I’m not sure of their stock right now, but I ordered a few from Sierra and just kept the ones that worked best. I did find my cycling shoe size was 2 sizes higher than my normal shoe size. I’d recommend ordering several pairs from them.

    2. I have some basic Shimanos (SH-WR35 Road Cycling Shoe) which I bought five years ago. I got them for about $80 on Amazon. They see fairly heavy use, and have held up fine. Notably, the pair I bought is only compatible with SPD cleats. Some studios (definitely Flywheel, and I think the Peloton bikes, maybe) use the Delta cleats.

    3. I am surprised that this is a thing. Cycling, if you are mountain biking maybe, is still primarily sitting. I’m not sure what you need beyond comfy footwear that isn’t single-purpose.

      Earlier this week we had comments from someone livid about having been sent a coffee maker that would only be used by in-laws (who probably don’t want to get dressed and go out for coffee, I get it).

      1. Huh? If you have cycling shoes, they clip into the pedals. You get more out of the workout because you can both push and pull on the pedal. Are you surprised people have hiking boots or soccer cleats?

      2. Sorry, but nope! If you’re doing it right, a lot of your weight should be balanced between your feet – not in your hands or in your butt. Power transfer is most efficient for indoor and road cycling when you have well fitting shoes that are clipped in to your pedals.
        OP, the Giro Rev shoe is one of the more comfortable ones I’ve worn – you can get it on backcountry with 20% off.

      3. Most stationary bikes in cycling studios have pedals your shoes need to clip into. Studios offer shoes to borrow, or rent for a small fee per class, but it’s also not ridiculous to buy your own shoes that are compatible with the bikes’ clip-in pedals. Personally, I still use the shoes offered by the studio, but I’ve been toying with maybe buying my own, I see Dick’s offers some around $100 (plus the price of clips, which are sold extra so you can customize them to the type of bike you normally use), but I’d need to actually go to the store and try them on, because you’re right, comfort is key.

        Why bring up the coffee post here? Do you think OP is being ridiculous for wanting to buy shoes specific to a hobby she does but you clearly haven’t tried?

        1. Oh, almost forgot to mention that no, spin class is not “primarily sitting.” I mean, it can be if you’re new (or, ahem, a bit hungover, been there), but spin classes have a lot of segments where you get up off the seat.

          Again, it seems a little rude to imply someone’s being ridiculous when they’re asking for advice about a hobby you clearly know very little about.

      4. No, shoes are critical in cycling. If you’re not clipped in, you’re losing half the pedal stroke because you can only exert force going down.

        On mountain biking, you actually sit less in MTB than any other outdoor cycling sport, but maybe that’s what you were trying to say. And MTB is actually the discipline where more people DON’T use clips, for a variety of reasons.

        OP: bike shoes are pricey, unfortunately. Competitive Cyclist is good for finding deals. I’d order a bunch and see what fits you the best. You can focus on shoes that use velcro (not boa dials), which will help from a price perspective. You want to make sure you don’t have a ton of motion in your heel, as that can lead to strain issues on the ankle. Giros tend to run narrow, FWIW, so I’d avoid those.

      5. I get the efficiency of scoops if you are in a long outdoor ride or racing or commuting. Any time you might run out of steam or care about your time, I get using clips. But for exercise, wouldn’t you care in the opposite direction or be indifferent? Like burning more calories and being less efficient is OK or even preferred?

        Like I have an old bike with a chrome-moly frame. It is heavy and therefore any workout is intense with it.

        2. I think if you’re not clipped in, you’re stomping down on the pedals- all the power is coming from your quads. If you’re clipped in, you’re able to use your glutes and hamstrings through the circular pedal stroke and optimizing the work you do across your muscles.
          As cycling great Greg Lemond said- “it doesnt get easier, just faster”

      7. Hahahaha thanks for the laugh!!! Maybe stick to commenting on hobbies you actually participate in. Clip in shoes are essential for getting the most physical benefit and enjoyment out of cycling (indoor or outdoor).

    4. I went to a local bike shop and tried on shoes from their clearance rack. I found a great pair (and like another poster said, 2 sizes up, and I probably should have gone 3 sizes up tbh) for $50 and had them add the cleats (~$25) in store. I don’t remember the brand, but they are holding up really well. Now that I’ve been cycling a bit and feel like I am going to stick to it, I may go hunting for a slightly larger shoe and have them swap the cleats from old to new shoe.
      You may want to do some research on the type of shoe that would work best if you haven’t already (Mountain, vs Road vs Hybrid, etc).
      Anon at 9:32am, I didn’t believe the hype till I used the cleats and realized I felt more stable and connected to the bike. My performance improved and the riding was more comfortable. Many of my classes involve standing and pedaling so feeling stable and connected are important.

      1. I’m just dipping my toe back into spinning after a pregnancy/baby-related hiatus. Since recommitting I’ve rented shoes from the studio as they require proper cycling shoes, and my knees are in so much better shape after using them. I’m a former runner who can barely run because of said knees. Cycling is generally easy on the knees but stil caused some aches before. This time around there is no aching at all and I’m convinced it’s the shoes that I’ musing for the first time – I’m an evangelist!

      2. This is what I’d do. Go to a bike shop and try on a bunch in person. I have some really old Pearl Izumi ones (10+ years old) that have held up well.

    5. I do not like Tiems. The sole is too flexible. In response to why do you need these shoes – they clip on and help with the “pulling up” part of the cycle stroke and also a rigid sole helps with foot fatigue. You can concentrate on form and power and not are my shoes slipping of the pedals. I have Garneau shoes I got on Zappos. I think I ordered some other pairs and liked those. A local bike shop should also have numerous pairs to try on and may have some clearance deals end of summer.

    6. Quick plug for TIEMs!! I also had sticker shock paying for shoes on top of my spin classes, but I really like them and have held up better than my old Shimanos. Also the convenience factor of not having to change shoes between my car and the studio is a plus. It sounds silly, but it saves time and it’s just nice. If I also did outdoor cycling I’d probably buy the more traditional shoes with external clips, but for my daily spin classes the TIEMs are perfect.

    7. Also former runner, but with bad back who took up spinning this year. I bought cheap BTWIN cycling shoes (i believe road-type) and added clips on them. My feet are not wide, but i like extra wiggle room. Total cost <40€ and I enjoy spinning in then much more than in gym trainers.

  4. We have one member of our team who does not pull his own weight. He will generally do half the work that everyone else does. It’s a very small team so the extra work gets distributed between me and one other colleague. My boss knows this team member doesn’t pull his own weight and really does nothing about it. I’m tired of doing extra work for no real benefit and losing respect for my boss who pushes the team member who actually get the job done. I’m assuming there is no way to express this to my boss without sounding like I am just complaining. I’m already looking for a new job for various reasons but while I still have this one, any ways of coping or expressing my frustration to my boss? I’m just so tired of doing double the work while he just sits there and gets paid about the same as me.

    1. It’s a pretty common problem, especially in government and other work environments where it’s difficult to get fired and also difficult to get a huge raise or promotion. There just isn’t that much motivation to do more than the bare minimum. If your boss is ok with it, it’s not going to change.

      1. It’s not government or law. I’m in compliance for a large financial institution. Once again,my boss just asked me to do my colleagues work and there’s really no way for me to say no. Job searching this weekend!

        1. This is terrible. Why is it always the men who are lazy and dumb and they all get away with it. In my firm, we had to hire a schmoe whose father was a big cleint. He NEVER did very much (other then carry my pumps to court), and he had the nerve to have s-x with my assistant right on the conference room table. He was never abel to pass the NY Bar, so after much hand ringing, the manageing partner had me fire him. I told him he was a nice person, but was ill-suited for the tough litigeation practice we had, and suggested he get a job in goverment. I think he did get a job with the NYC Department of HPD, whatever that is, with a recommendation from the manageing partner! He should do OK there b/c the manageing partner says there are alot of places to hide.

      2. Second this. My do-nothing colleague was also a man, protected by several male higher-ups. Leaving that job was the only solution. You have my sympathy; this is so aggravating.

    2. Can you just not do the work this guy is supposed to be doing? If the boss asks, then tell them it’s because he didn’t do his work.

      Try to come up with specific examples of how this guy not doing his work impacts you and/or the business as a whole. It’s not complaining if you have data to back up your concerns. Any possibility of going to your bosses boss?

      1. Can’t go to my boss’s boss. I don’t know why my colleague can’t get his work done or why it then fails on me. Motivation among the team is at an all time low, but he wasn’t cutting it the entire time he’s been here. My boss is aware of the problem but just doesn’t do anything about it. Maybe he doesn’t know what to do or doesn’t want to be the bad guy. I don’t know how this colleague hasn’t been fired yet. I don’t want to always complain about him because I want to leave on good terms and have my boss as a future reference. It’s just so so difficult to do double the work without the salary.

    3. Ask for a raise using that as a justification. :) There will always be people who don’t pull their own weight, and it takes time to fire these people. For all you know he’s on a performance plan.

      1. He probably is but for now, it’s the worst! My colleague and I joke that we forgot he still works at my company since he doesn’t actually work.

    4. If it were me and I was being asked to work outside of business hours I’d force my boss to choose between me doing my own work and me doing his. “Just to check, should [his item] take priority over [my item] this week? I can do whichever is lower priority next week.” If it was not adding hours to my workday, I’d probably do the above but in the end do the work.

      If I wanted to be petty, which let’s be real I would be, I’d probably ask the following when being handed his work. “I know this was something Bill was going to take care of: what was the obstacle he ran into on this?” or “Given that this is something it makes sense to transfer from Bill to me, what would you like for me to pass off to him to rebalance our responsibilities? I would propose X, which is about the same time commitment and in line with both of our capabilities.” And then I’d also ask: “Could you please forward me the work that Bill has done over the past 2 weeks on this activity? It would be helpful to know who he has reached out to thus far and have access to all of the work he has done so I can be sure to pick up where he left off.” After maybe a month or two of doing this I’d set up time with boss to discuss pointedly.

  5. Any recs for good quality and comfortable sports br@s for large cup sizes. I am a 34 or 36 depending on brands, but G or H in cup size and despite searching for years I seem to end up with either under wired ones that dig in or things that aren’t supportive enough. No wonder I can’t get to enjoy running or burpees (or a convenient excuse). TIA!

      1. Yep, Panache. If the price is too steep (you can sometimes find the less popular colors for less), there’s a knock-off on amazon – Kyo— I can’t remember the exact name.

    2. The Brooks Juno or Fiona are fantastic for this. Used to be the Moving Comfort brand until Brooks bought it.

      2. I’m a 34 G and love the Juno. When I bought it, it did not actually come in a G, but the size I have gets the job done. It really makes such an amazing difference!

    3. Shock Absorber is my go-to brand. I wear what I think is called their Ultimate Running Bra, or something like that. I still don’t enjoy burbees though! (Although they are not painful, at least in the chest area!)

    4. Wacoal Wire free Sport bra. I’m a 38DDD and I hate underwire for sports bras. It’s great for high impact and they’ve been pretty sturdy over the 1-2 years I’ve been using them. I have 3 now.

  6. Has anyone read the complaint against Jones Day? Curious to hear your thoughts. Not surprising that it would happen at that firm but it still shocked me how quickly the husband was fired without notice and the firm literally sent someone to his home in the morning when he just had his baby. Normally, firms would slowly build up a track record of negative reviews first. Either the managing partner was stupid or the firm had done something similar in the past and were able to get away with it.

    1. I vaguely know a senior associate there who has several kids and I’m dying to ask her about it but I don’t know her well enough. They must be treating her decently if she’s staying while raising a young family. (Not trying to imply this disproves the allegations, since obviously experience varies significantly across practice group/partner, just saying I wish I could get her honest opinion about the place.)

      1. Partner A sounds horrible. Wouldn’t be great if his name is published to the whole world and he loses all of his clients. Sigh.

    2. Skimming the NYT article about it and have mixed feelings.

      IMHO, it is incredibly important to ensure that mothers who give birth have adequate time to recover, and the focus on “equality” is wrong. We need equity, not equality: ensuring that birth mothers can recuperate from the stress of the birth process, even if that means more leave than their non-birthing (male and adoptive parent) counterparts.

      Ergo, the issue is that adoptive parents get more leave than fathers, not that fathers get less leave than birth mothers.

      But the way Jones Day acted? Not surprised. The problem is that every complainant is a single person (or here, a married couple), blindsided, doing this for the first and likely only time, going up against a company that has literally spent decades honing its internal policies to avoid a judgement against it.

      1. Yup. I really really hate the push to give men as much leave as women. It is nonsense. You did not birth and carry a child.

      2. I agree with the equity versus equality point and that is also why I oppose the general push to make policies gender-neutral in language. If “people” can give birth, then it’s fair for all “people” to receive the same amount of leave. I know people will jump on me and just say I’m the trans tr*ll, but it’s not about that and this concept was already tested many years ago when the defendant in a large suit (I think it was the postal service?) got out of having to provide medical leave for pregnant women because it didn’t provide pregnancy leave to men, therefore meaning that the policy was “equal” to “all.” We need to use specific words for specific people and in this case, I think Jones Day can and should offer specific time for pregnant women/women who have given birth only.

        1. “Birthing Parent” and “Primary Caretaker” are perfectly fine substitutes in the case of pregnant women and child adoption leave. Gender neutral language can usually be subbed for something a lot more specific when it comes to work place policies. But I also agree that it’s important to call out specific areas where women bear the burden, just pointing out going with gender neutral language isn’t necessarily bad.

        2. Hugely, hugely disagree. The woman may have to give birth, but someone needs to be around to take care of BOTH the recovering mother and the newborn baby. That’s why fathers need an equal amount of leave. For example, a C-section mom is not supposed to lift anything (like if her baby is heavy, may not even be able to lift the baby), is told by the doctor not to drive for two weeks, etc. Many families have other small children at the time. A mom who just gave birth SHOULD NOT be expected to manage all of this– the other parent should be equally involved for an equal amount of time.

          It also creates terrible policy to force all the care after childbirth onto mothers only. Like it or not, companies balk at hiring women of childbearing age because they know they may take maternity leave. If parental leave is the same for both men and women, it equalizes the playing field– either a man or a woman might take that parental leave time, so women are less penalized just for being women. Further, longer parental leave for women and not men creates patterns in the home that shove the distribution of labor onto women– and women never recover. See the countless studies that show how much more work women do at home even after returning to work.

          So, no. Men do not have to physically recover from childbirth. But they should be around to do all of the things that women can’t do while they are recovering. The time should be the same because the work should not be placed exclusively on women.

          1. You’re assuming that the response will be to give everyone equally generous parental leave, rather than equally terrible parental leave. Our point is that it’s a terrible assumption to make.

            Hypothetical: should a man be entitled to parental leave after the first child is stillborn? Should a woman be entitled to parental leave after the first child is stillborn? (I say “first child” to negate any issues of a recuperating mother who has other childcare obligations.)

          2. I don’t agree with giving non-birthing parents leave equal to that granted birthing parents, especially if it doesn’t have to be taken immediately after the birth for the purpose of caring for the parent who gave birth while she recovers. What happens in practice is that the dad takes leave after the mom has gone back to work. If he’s home with the baby, he gets to be there when things start to get easier and more fun as the baby starts actually sleeping and gets more interactive. Or he puts the baby in day care and gets free time to write articles. Neither of these scenarios is fair to the women who give birth and are stuck at home doing nothing but feeding what is basically a screaming parasite while recovering from a terrible physical ordeal.

          3. Thanks for this. After my child was born, I was very much still recovering after we home. I’m not sure how we’re also requiring women to take on a brand new 24 hour a day care taking role during that time but it is 100% the expectation according to most policies.

            A friend’s baby passed away the day after her c section. She got 12 weeks to recover plus the week of bereavement. When she had another baby via surrogate she got 12 weeks to care for the new child. Both of these are fair and legitimate, I think. How do we expect women in most cases to do both?

          4. The solution is offering equal parental leave to both parents (e.g. 8 weeks) plus disability weeks if you have given birth (e.g. 6-8 weeks), and assistance to the birthing partner weeks to be taken immediately after the birth of the child for the non-birthing parent (e.g. 2 weeks). This way women can get some help at home immediately after the birth of the child plus the parental leave that is just about childcare vs. about physical recovery is still equal.

          5. Single moms survive c sections all the time. It’s a fantasy world that everyone has the option to not lift the baby.

          6. Completely cosign everything Delta Dawn said. I’m a big believer that women can’t just lean in and succeed in the workplace by outsourcing our home lives, we need men to lean out and do their share of child-rearing and household stuff. Parental leave for men is a huge step towards that. My husband took almost 8 months of paternity leave (I took 14 weeks) and it’s been the best thing for our marriage and his relationship with kids because our family doesn’t have a “breadwinner” or a “primary parent.” Both of us work full-time and earn money that supports the family and both of us are really hands-on parents who do a ton of childcare. I do agree that it’s a little unfair that the dad generally gets an older, more fun baby and also agree that more men than women abuse parental leave, but I don’t think these are reasons not to offer it. I believe most men use it as intended, and taking leave away from men doesn’t give the woman any more time with an older, more interactive baby – if anything it’s much easier on the woman to be able to go back to work knowing baby is home with dad, and not having to worry about nanny or daycare until his leave is over. It certainly was for me. I think I’d be a SAHM now if I’d had to put my baby in daycare at 14 weeks.

          7. Single moms survive c-sections, but that’s a terrible standard. 1/4 mothers go back to work *two weeks* after giving birth, and most of them survive. We can do better.

          8. Generally agree with this. I like the Canadian approach where there is fixed amount of leave for moms, a (shorter) amount of leave for dads (generally taken concurrently, right after the birth, so that dad can help mom) and then parental leave which can be split however the couple wants (even though in practice it tends to be moms, which I find unfortunate). I hear a lot of hypotheticals about dads taking leave so they can play golf or whatever, and all I can say is don’t have children with an a**hole? I’ve never seen that happen in real life – all the dads I know were actively involved and I believe you lose the right to leave if you child is in full-time care.

          9. Did you read the study of college professors who were granted long periods of parental leave? It ended up helping the men more because they spent the time working on research and grants, while the women focused on child care.

          10. Anon at 10:53 and 10:03 have it right. Medical leave for the birthmother, equal parental leave for any parent. This is not a fantasy, this is literally what the rest of the western world is doing.
            Iceland strongly incentivizes that parents share early caregiver duties equally, and now hiring discrimination against young women is dramatically reduced. This is the most progressive model I know of, I don’t expect that kind of nudging to be passed in the US, but there is no reason paid leave can’t be improved substantially.

          11. Just because more men than women abuse leave doesn’t mean most men are abusing leave. There are other factors in play too, like how motivated the person is to work on their research – my husband did work during naps while he was on paternity leave. I watched Netflix during naps on my maternity leave, even though I was perfectly capable of doing work. I just didn’t want to and I didn’t have to, so I didn’t. Anecdotally, I know a lot more men than women who relax by working. To me, a parent is not abusing their leave unless they’re not being their new baby’s full-time caregiver. What they choose to do in their free time, whether it’s work, housework, Netflix or a vacation in Europe, is their business.

      3. This case does seem unique from the other ones in that one of the plaintiffs was a man and he was also the one who was fired because his wife complained on behalf of them.

      4. +1
        This is why leave in Canada is structured so that the birth mom gets 4 months and either parent or adoptive parents can take an additional 8 months. Birth is a difficult phyiscal process that requires recovery time. Infant care is additional to the birth, it’s about equity not equal time.

        1. Months!! That sounds amazing. In the US we’re lucky to get 6 weeks for giving birth. It’s ridiculous.

      5. I have no doubt that the conditions for women and people of color are difficult at Jones Day. I have no doubt that they are difficult at many large law firms. Jones Day is not a hero here.

        BUT…I’m not a huge fan of exactly equal treatment for everybody. As you stated, it should be about equity.

        When I left the hospital after having my baby, I was a physical wreck. My husband was not. I think it is completely fair to give birth mothers more time off to heal, bre_stfeed, etc. I’m just not that sympathetic to the plaintiff, and frankly I have lived through a scenario where men insisted on exactly equal paid leave, and the company shortened leave for mothers to give everybody the same amount.

        1. In order to have that time to physically recover, don’t you need your husband home to care for the baby during that time?

          1. That wasn’t the issue here. The husband did get time off, a pretty decent amount, just not as much as he wanted. He was given plenty of time to help the mother physically recover. If the mother requires the father’s help to physically recover from birth (separate consideration from parenting) after a couple months, something is very very wrong.

          3. Yes, which is why he should get some paternity leave. Example: Father gets 6 weeks parental leave, which he uses to take care of the baby while mom recovers during her 6 weeks of disability leave. (Except that realistically, mom has to take care of the baby because her body produces its food. So husband is really taking care of her and the house while she takes care of the baby.) Then father goes back to work and mother gets 6 weeks of parental leave to take care of the baby.

          4. @10:32, but what if mom would rather go back to work when she is physically able and let dad care for the baby until baby goes to daycare? Why are we presuming mom gets that time? I know many moms would want it but for some families, they would rather dad do it.

      7. Agreed. Plus the fact that the additional 8 weeks for the mother are covered by disability and not by the firm is relevant. Disability insurance policies are not going to cover 8 weeks of parental leave for the father. So the firm is treating the parents equally in the sense that it is paying out-of-pocket for the same 10 weeks of leave regardless of whether it is a male or female taking the leave.

    3. What really bugs me about this case is that adoptive parents get 18 weeks regardless of disability, whereas birth parents only get 10 weeks plus 8 weeks of disability for the mother. The policy should be a uniform amount of parental leave for all new parents, plus around 8 weeks additional disability for birth mothers to recover from the birth. Adoptive parents are getting preferential treatment here.

      1. Agreed. It should be 18 weeks for the “primary caregiver,” then leave it to the honor system whether one designates oneself the primary caregiver or not. 90% of men will not be and will be honest about that fact. Sounds like this guy would have taken advantage and claimed to be the primary caregiver, but I think that’s just a risk the firm should absorb, just like it does with respect to any policy that relies on the integrity of the employees.

      2. I agree with you but I may be able to provide some insight behind the intent of the policy. Adoptive parents also have unique needs that require more leave than birth parents. Adopted children are often born to mothers that were drug addicted, smoked or did not get prenatal care. That means they are often premature and for private adoption, normally born out of state. So, you have to travel out of state and stay there for the birth and until the baby is able to go home from the hospital which can be months. Then you need court approval to take the baby home which can take a few weeks. So, by the time you are bringing home your new baby, your leave may be up.

        I review policies for clients and many of them have language I consider non-discriminatory. The birthing parent gets x amount of leave to recover, adoptive parents get x amount of leave to facilitate the adoption process, all parents get x amount of bonding leave on top of the prior mentioned leaves. Plus, my state provides unlimited leave for disability during pregnancy. So if you are on bed rest your last trimester, your job is protected.

        The above leave isn’t all paid either at most places. I often see 2 months paid a third month available unpaid.

        1. yes adoptive parents have certain complications, but so can birth parents. i had a horrible delivery with twins, had one in the nicu and severe ppd/ppa. it is not like birth parents get more time for multiples or for having babies in the nicu or with other complications. there are a lot of people with nicu babies whose leave may also be up before they get to bring the baby home. my husband got one week off. one of our kids was not even home yet when he had to go back and i was such a hot mess both physically and mentally, there is actually no way i could have safely cared for both children on my own. fortunately, we were able to hire some help and had some family come to help care for the babies since they all live out of state, though having my husband home would have been extremely beneficial for myself and the kids.

          1. So let’s do better for everyone instead of taking away from the categories that are getting more.

    4. Wait, are we legitimately arguing that a woman has no extra physical needs after giving birth compared to the father? I am 100% for paternity leave, but claiming that a woman does not also need a disability leave because it’s discriminatory is definitely going too far.

      1. Can I ask a dumb question – setting aside breastfeeding for the moment, since that can be done in connection with a job generally, how much physical recovery time is really needed for an uncomplicated delivery? Never been pregnant.

        1. Depending on type of birth (v*ginal v C-section), to get fairly functional (it takes a long time for anyone to get to 100% and varies wildly), two weeks to six weeks do most regular activities. Keep in mind C-Section can be an uncomplicated delivery and even planned, but is still major abdominal surgery.

        2. Several weeks. I was waking up drenched in sweat multiple times a night for at least a month, which would have left me a sleep-deprived zombie even without a baby waking me up all the time.

        3. You have a standard follow up appointment with your OB at 6 weeks for a vag birth to make sure everything is healed or healing correctly, so that’s the medical standard. In my experience and that of my friends, it’s typically about 6-8 weeks recovery from the physical fact of giving birth. I would say I was fully healed around 5-6 weeks but I had an easier time than many. Perhaps if I wasn’t also breastfeeding and taking care of an infant it might have been faster.

        4. Do you mean uncomplicated in the sense of no pain mediation, no stitches etc? It very rare to have the combination of an unmedicated birth that also results in zero tearing. Many people chose pain mediations. If stitches you need to make sure they stay clean and dry which isn’t easy when you are still bleeding/sore. Because you are bleeding/sore then you need to change pads regularly. If you had an epidural, you could be having migraines or pain at the injection site. Babies feed 9-12 times a day at that stage so BF is definitely a lot of it. You need to rest because you are physically exhausted. You may not have been able to sleep comfortably during the third trimester and you probably are not sleeping more than 3-4 hours at a time max, in the first few weeks. Past six weeks you may be doing phyiscal therapy for pelvic floor or hip or back issues.

        6. Personally I fell like my uterus was going to fall out of my vag if I stood for longer than 5 minutes. I also bled heavily for at least 4 weeks. This is on top of all the other new mother stuff like breastfeeding and getting up in the middle of the night.

          I had vaginal births but my first was >9 lb and all head (she was late and large, not puffy)

          1. (I also had stitches and a third degree tear that made me cry every time I used the bathroom)

          2. Yeah. bled for 11 weeks, 4th degree tear, couldn’t stand for long without passing out for at least 3 weeks, couldn’t drive for 4 weeks b/c of prescription painkillers. Couldn’t use brain for quite a bit longer, but hard to tell if that was from low hemoglobin, hormones, or the fact that baby rarely slept longer than 45 minutes at a time. Those were dark, dark days.

            Oh, and I was back in the office (feeling like crap and doing a terrible job) at 6 weeks.

          3. I was back in 6 weeks too! It sucked but I had my kids right before more generous leave policies kicked in.

        7. It’s typically calculated as either 6 or 8 weeks of disability, depending on the baby’s exit strategy (if you will… trying to avoid getting modded). In practice, it can vary widely.

        8. I had an “uncomplicated” but not easy V delivery with many stitches and a third degree tear and I was in serious pain with limited mobility for maybe 4 days (the two days in the hospital and the first two days at home). I had some soreness for another few days after that, but could move around as normal. Within 10 days everything felt completely normal down there, except for gardening, which took many many months to be comfortable but has nothing to do with caring for a baby. Many women (including me) bleed for several weeks but it was just like a very long period – annoying but not anything that limited my life. I’m highly skeptical that someone with an uncomplicated (in the medical sense) v*g delivery would need 6-8 weeks to recover enough to be a baby’s primary caregiver.

          1. Recover enough to be a baby’s primary caregiver or recover enough to go back to work? And why should we use the best case scenario, which means women who suffer more aren’t protected?

          2. My second was a walk in the park and I was working the next week (because being a partner in a small firm blows). But birthing babies is like cat wrecks: unpredictable and with the full spectrum of outcomes for mother and baby. You can’t drive for two weeks after a v delivery (more for a c-section) and there are or can be bout mom and baby doctor visits, so there’s that.

          3. Well, I don’t think I had a “best case scenario.” I had serious tearing and a lot of stitches. My friends with lower degree tears recovered even faster. To your other point, this isn’t about going back to work. The argument is that mom is using 6-8 weeks of her maternity leave physically recovering, so she needs a longer leave than dad because the first 6-8 weeks of her leave don’t count, since she was recovering and not caring for a baby. That was definitely not my experience at all – my husband and visiting mom did a lot of caregiving of both me and the baby the first week, but after that I was plenty physically recovered to be baby’s primary caregiver.
            I agree that all new parents should have 6 weeks minimum (ideally much more) off from work to recover from birth if applicable and bond with baby.

          4. And fwiw, nobody told me I couldn’t drive before 2 weeks, and I drove myself and baby to a doctor’s appointment when she was 10 days old. I was only told not to drive if I took pain meds with narcotics.

          5. +1 to Anon at 11:15, this was exactly my delivery and recovery (though I had a 2d degree tear, not third, so my pain was significant but not as bad as 3d degree tear). Other than PP bleeding, I felt back to normal after about two weeks. But of course people who have more complicated deliveries/recoveries wouldn’t be on that timeline, so I see the need for more leave.

          6. Is there a reason that doctors couldn’t prescribe medical leave post-delivery, like they might for other medical surgeries, etc. Some people need 2 weeks, some need 6, some need much longer?

          7. Anon at 11:46, ok you win. You are the ideal woman and the entire medical community should throw out all of their experience and studies and take your example as the absolute maximum time a woman should need to physically recover from childbirth. You are an example to us all, congratulations!

            Is that your point? Because that’s sure what it sounds like.

          8. Anon at 12:05, it’s sort of done like that already but less individual. It’s usually just 6 weeks for a v delivery, 8 weeks for a C-section. It’s possible to get more time off for medical reasons if you have complications. The problem is most people will take the max their doctor allows, because it’s sadly a very important component of medical leave in the US. I was fully recovered by 2 weeks but there’s no way I would have wanted to have my doctor sign a note to that effect because then I would have had 4 fewer weeks with my baby.

        9. I had a very easy planned c-section. I could have gone back to work *in a cushy office setting* within a couple of weeks. I felt shockingly fine, physically. I also didn’t bleed heavily beyond the first few days.

          BUT. A lot of women don’t work in cushy office settings. There was no way I could have worked in a job where I was on my feet until about 6-8 weeks in. I would get exhausted so easily when I was on my feet. I remember having to sit down on a bench at the grocery store after an “easy” 10 minute trip where I was there to buy three things.

          That said, the sleep deprivation piece was no joke. By a few weeks in I felt dizzy and sick from it and would not have been capable of producing a good work product. Kiddo started sleeping longer stretches by the time I went back to work at 12 weeks and I felt generally pretty good at that point.

    5. I think the firing was because of his wildly inappropriate and threatening email. Yes, under normal circumstances, if you were just being fired for being a subpar lawyer, they’d build a record of negative reviews. But when you basically send a “f*** you” email to your bosses with a “nah nah boo boo employment law prevents you from firing me,” that’s a pretty good way to get immediately canned. Sorry not sorry, bro.

      1. I did not read his email that way at all. It seemed like a reasonable reminder that employment law prohibits retaliation and the way he wrote it was not disrespectful.

        I wonder if any of the commenters here work at Jones Day.

          2. To clarify, paragraph 140 was the wife’s email. She was already on her way out by that point based on the complaint. It seemed that she had something lined up at the federal defenders already, hence why her tone was so demanding. Agree it lacks tact.

            But the husband’s email is in paragraph 144. HR did not respond to her email, but chose to call her likely so there is less of a track record. His email builds this track record and was reasonable in tone and short. He says “Julia let me know that you decided to reject our request…Thank you for your consideration. Needless to say, I oppose your practice, which is made illegal by Title VII. You may know that it is also illegal to retaliate against an employee who opposes discrimination.” After their baby was born, the couple jointly sent an email in paragraph 146.

          3. I see nothing wrong with the email in Paragraph 140. I was expecting much worse from your reaction.

          4. I was a little surprised that attorneys would file this type of lawsuit, given how hard it will now be to get a new job. But after reading the emails, it makes clear that they were always planning to sue. No one who intends to stay in their job sends an email like that at 146. Basically, it seems like they were planning to have the husband quit to stay home and figured that this was a way to have an impact in the mean time.

      2. Apart from the merits of the case (which are considerable), reading just this part of the complaint makes it look like they were planning the lawsuit all along. If those emails weren’t drafted by their lawyers I’ll eat my hat.

        2. Or they knew all along there was the possibility of retaliation and acted accordingly.

      3. I agree. I heard about this case sometime ago. Our firm would have bounced both of these people out for writing this, which you just do NOT do when we pay good money to our associates to do work, not to threaten the firm. Since NYC is in what they call an “at will state”, we can fire someone for no reason at all. Here Dad thinks there were plenty of reasons to get rid of them, in his humbel opinion. Now that I am a partner, I agree with Dad.

    6. I’m a fan of equal leave even though we have unequal needs. That’s because companies will be less concerned about hiring women of reproductive age if men are taking the same amount of time off.

      2. Same. It’s about creating normative incentives that will counter gender discrimination in the long term. This policy will encourage more men to take leave, which in turn will change normative expectations about gender roles.

    7. People in Scandinavia would laugh at our quibbling over the pathetic leave options in this country. We should be in the streets (and the ballot box) demanding more.

      1. But do people there have more kids? I think that half of this is to increase low birth rates but I bet they are higher in the US.

        I’d have had one more if I could have managed it (3 vs 2). I always wanted 4 or 5 growing up but I had a late start and chose an un-family-friendly field (not so much unfriendly with the birthing but for the next 18 years once the kid gets here).

      2. I am from Canada, and that still kind of applies. I do not think that our government policies have anything to do with increasing birth rates at all.

        Multiple posters above comment about how various companies might structure leaves which only underscores that it should not be an ad hoc patchwork but a legal framework and a governmental priority.

        1. Won’t there always be companies beating the govt minimum as a way to attract and retain people though? In the US, we do have some govt-mandated leave – 12 weeks of leave (not necessarily paid) if your employer has over 50 employees and you’ve worked there a year. However most large law firms, corporations, etc. offer their employees far more generous leave packages. 12 weeks fully paid is really common, and some industries like Big Law and tech, offer longer paid leaves.

          1. Sure, companies offer top ups here but usually big companies for more executive-type jobs. That’s raising the ceiling.

            The point is to have a minimum floor that applies to everyone – here that looks like 15 weeks for the person who gives birth plus a further minimum of 35 weeks for parental leave that can be taken by either parent (this is what adoptive parents get as well) = these are standard benefits paid at up to 55% of your salary or a maximum of $562/week. If you prefer a longer leave, you can choose 61 weeks of parental benefits at a maximum of 33% or $337/week.

          2. 12 weeks of leave only applies if you have more than 50 employees. I’ve never worked at a place where it applied.

      3. Yes my Scandinavian friends can take about 1.5 years paid leave and this can be split pretty much however they want. A lot stayed home for the first year then used the remaining spread out in different way, either working part time or just taking days off days (to their already 6 week paid vacation). They also have the right to stay home well in advance of giving birth. I’ve been justifying with the fact they pay for this through higher taxation only to realize I pay pretty much the same in taxes here than I did over there.

        1. This. I was surprised when a lot of European friends started their maternity leave at 7 months pregnant! And their taxes are not much more!

          I do think it increases pressure to take advantage of the generous leave and some moms do want to go back to work earlier or work later into their pregnancies.

          1. They have the right to distribute these days up until the kid is 8 years old. So I haven’t noticed any of this pressure among my friends – returning “early” would only mean they have bigger pool of days to utilize for the remaining (almost!) decade. That being said this is specific to Sweden, could vary between the Nordic nations. When they found out my situation here (15 days paid leave) they almost passed out in shock horror.

  7. Reposting from evening thread: Has anyone used the Lo & Sons OMG as a diaper bag and/or bag to carry a pump to/from work? How did it work for those purposes?

    1. I always thought it looked exactly like a diaper bag! (not really helpful, I know)

    2. I use my OMG as my work tote (which include my pump), and as a diaper bag when travelling and it works really well for both purposes. It’s big enough, and has a LOT of interior and exterior pockets which I find majorly important in a diaper bag. It’s also easy to clean both inside and out.

  8. How do you give someone a reason when you break up with them without making it sound like an excuse? Haven’t done this as an adult and have forgotten how this works/ don’t want to be an asshole. Nice guy, but I realized I’m just not over my ex and jumped into the next relationship too soon.

    1. I don’t think you need to give a reason. If he’s a good person, be kind, tell them that you don’t see it working out, and sincerely wish him the best.

    2. “I realized I’m just not over my ex and jumped into the next relationship too soon.”
      Then say just that?

      There’s nothing that will make it less sting for the guy.

      2. Yup. And remember, your job is not to convince him that your reason is a good one, or to get him to agree with you, or to not hurt his feelings. Your job is just to convey the information that you are breaking up with him, as humanely as possible.

    3. You don’t owe someone a “good reason,” or more specifically, a reason that’s good enough to make them accept the breakup. Some people will take issue with whatever reason you give them, so you might as well tell them the truth rather than coming up with a convincing argument for why the relationship should not continue. You can tell someone you’re just not feeling it, you like them as a person but the relationship isn’t making you happy, but in this case, you do have a reason and you should just say that.

    5. You can always tell him you don’t think you’re the right fit for each other and so you’re ending things but wish him the best in finding the right person for him. That’s going to be true in basically any break-up conversation you have.

  9. I’m trying to make sustainable changes to decrease my climate footprint, but I’m always trying to balance this against convenience (I hate how much waste food delivery causes, but sometimes it’s the only way to get food). I’m having a baby soon, which has put this particularly in focus, as there seems to be SO MUCH plastic baby crap (some of which I’m sure feels essential when you’re in it). Would love to hear what small, easy swaps you’ve made to be more green.

    On my part, a few recent changes I’ve made are:
    * For new Tupperware, buy Pyrex glass rather than plastic (love Pyrex Snapware)
    * Using glass spray bottles to refill with bulk cleaning products, rather than buying tons of new plastic spray bottles
    * Silicone ziplock bags rather than using new all the time (though my experience has been mixed – the ones I have are hard to clean and hold smells strongly)
    * Silicone (?) bowl covers rather than plastic wrap
    * Being more purposeful about bringing my water bottle and coffee cup with me, rather than getting disposables when I’m out
    * Joined local Buy Nothing group to give away things I own but won’t use (e.g., a shampoo I don’t love – I pass it along instead of pouring it down the sink)

    I’m considering (and would love any thoughts on):
    * Bringing Tupperware out to eat if I know I’ll have leftovers
    * Trying Loop (service that delivers you a reusable container full of name brand products, such as Tide, Haagen Daaz, etc) – really interested but the range of products is currently pretty limited
    * Trying concentrated cleaning products (Blueland and Grove Collaborative have tablets/powders you dissolve in water in reusable bottles – has anyone tried these)?
    * Using cloth diapers when my baby is born in a few months (I know this has controversial environmental impact, but for various reasons feels like the right move to me)

    1. Cloth diapering has been much less of a pain than I expected it to be! Fluff Love University has lots of instructions and explanations (broken down by type of washing machine). One of the most important environmental benefits of cloth diapers comes from re-using them between children, so see if you can get them second-hand! Mine are mostly from my buy nothing group and local baby-gear swap.

      Reusable tote bags instead of plastic sacks are a good one — I haven’t tried reusable mesh produce bags yet but I’ve heard good things.

      This may not count as small/easy, but I do think the most important thing is to just consume less — don’t buy new clothes, don’t upgrade your phone, don’t get the stylish new desk lamp, etc.

      1. I bought my cloth diapers used on Craigslist! Having my second child next month. I’m pretty sure she’ll be the 4th or 5th kid to use the same set of diapers.

        $200 for the full set (Bumgenius Free time – all one piece and one size fits all). For me, it was also more convenient because I didn’t have track what size, how many I had left, no trips to the store, etc. I would toss the days dirty diapers in the wash when I got home, and hang them when I went to bed.

      2. I really liked cloth diapering for my first and we are doing it again with our second (due in 3 weeks!). I got some off of Craigslist/FB but also just purchased some prefolds on the river site. We ended up preferring prefolds with snappis and covers to any of the “systems” for when baby is small and then moved to a snap-in system when he hit about a year and prefolds were too bulky. We used Thirsties covers at first – get the snaps, because the Velcro gets all fuzzed up. I found it much easier to throw in a load of laundry every day or two than to run to the store when out of diapers, and while you use the water, lots of water is used in making the disposables and they take forever to decompose.

    2. -Using reusable shopping bags. When I do have paper or plastic bags, I use them for recycling/garbage can liners
      -Saving veggie & bone scraps in the freezer and then making broth
      -Saving citrus peels in the freezer & making household cleaner
      – Biking more this summer!
      -Saving empty jars & bottles from condiments to reuse
      -Decreasing food waste, which is a mix of more mindful grocery shopping & using the freezer

      I want to start composting but haven’t done enough research yet.

      1. You can actually also use reusable trash can liners! I line my small trash cans with machine washable nylon bags, which I empty out into my main trash when full. (The main trash is in a plastic bag that’s a required bag for my city pickup.) Only the grossest trash needs to go straight into the plastic bag.

        I avoid paper towel use for almost everything too. I have reusable kitchen towels and old sheets that I’ve cut into squares.

        I recently posted asking for lint roller alternatives, since those feel so wasteful. My order is on its way.

        My next goal is to make my own all-purpose spray cleaner so I can stop buying new plastic containers for it.

        1. Ooh I didn’t know that, thanks! For your spray cleaner, fill a jar (I use a mason jar) with citrus peels, cover it with vinegar. Wait 6 weeks, drain and use! Currently have two jars because I haven’t been able to open the top to one jar..

      2. I’ve been composting for just over a year, and I love it! We do a local compost pickup service that costs $10 a week, with the option to get some compost back or donate our portion of the output if we don’t need it (we do this since we’re not currently growing plants), and they. Take. Everything. Some composting services don’t take meat, cheese, fish scraps, etc. but the one we use does, even paper towels are compostable! (although we try to avoid using them, and use microfiber cloths when possible). Definitely worth looking into.

        1. Do you put everything into a separate trash can in your kitchen? My city doesn’t have a pickup service, so I was thinking of getting a composting bin for our backyard, but worry about critters & smell.

          1. We started composting last year and are finally seeing the results of our efforts, just in time to add to our raised beds this fall! Our city sells discounted compost bins every year, and they’re not terribly attractive, but it’s easy enough to ignore in the back corner of our backyard. No smells unless you take off the lid and put your face in – if it smells, you need to turn it and add some dry browns. We have a small stainless bin on the kitchen counter with a charcoal filter in the lid, so no smells in the kitchen, and we empty it into the large bin outside when it’s full or if we put something especially gross in it.

          2. Yes! I have a small composting bucket that’s easy to flip open and has a smell filter, we use that for actually disposing of the compost (and we use compostable liner bags, which, crap, I need to get more of by Tuesday), but the pickup service also gives us a big bucket with an airtight lid, which we transfer compost into before putting it out, and then add whatever’s in the fridge that might need to go out with the compost, like old leftover rice.

            For foods that get smelly when left out too long, like chicken bones and shrimp shells, we put them in compostble bags in the freezer, and include the bag in the pickup bucket when it gets full enough.

          3. Thank you for these tips! I’ll start this weekend. Also Worry about yourself – don’t throw old leftover rice away, make fried rice, it’s the BEST with old rice.

          4. My parents have a backyard compost. The main thing about critters and smells is not to put meat, dairy, bread or starchy things in. So mainly scraps of fruits and veggies, garden trimmings, coffee grounds and so on. That works well for them.

    3. In addition to the things you mentioned, the two biggest changes I have made are:

      First, to serious cut back on my purchasing and try to find things second hand. I no longer upgrade items just because the newer one seems nicer, and I serious thing before purchasing anything. A group of friends and I have clothing swaps, which fulfills my shopping needs for the most part. When I do need a new item, I try to find it second hand before buying new. For example, with a new baby, I would try to get most of the baby clothing from second-hand stores or from friends, instead of buying everything new.

      Second, I’ve cut back on my online shopping. This goes along with item 1, but is broader. I no longer internet shop because I’m bored. And, when I do need a item, I try to purchase it in a store instead of online. I seemed so wasteful to purchase 3 items from amazon, and then end up with three big boxes and tons of packing materials.

      1. If anyone is into this regarding clothes, Elizabeth Cline’s new book The Conscious Closet is inspiring and informative.

      2. This. There are so many baby items available second hand but in ‘like new condition’. I bought a second hand baby swing for like 1/3 the price of new because the first owner’s baby hated swinging. It was literally used like twice. I donated it to a friend afterwards. If we all bought new, that would have been 3 baby swings vs. 1.

        Also, you need way less baby stuff than Toys R Us etc would lead to think.

        2. +2 to the last sentence. I didn’t have a baby shower and just picked up my friends hand me downs (as to things like swings, bassinet, toys and clothes), and bought a small handful of items before my son’s birth. I figured I could buy things as I needed them, and I’m glad I did that because there was very little I needed to buy over the first few months (my baby hated his swing anyway so i’m glad i didn’t buy one new). I picked up a few gently used items on FB and craigslist, and that was really it. I’ve concluded that the baby industry, like the wedding industry, is mostly a big racket.

    4. Some ideas: I walk/bike when I can avoid driving. Carpool with others whenever possible. I’ve been washing dishes in cold water to avoid hot water usage. Do laundry in cold water when possible (I have a hard time with this for some reason and feel my kids’ clothes really need warm water to get clean when they smell like urine, but I acknowledge I might be wrong). I recently bought reusable mesh produce bags (they are a lot like lingerie bags) that we take to the grocery store to minimize the number of plastic bags we use for our fruits/veggies.
      For your particular situation with a baby on the way: For postpartum bleeding you could use washable pads (no personal experience with this). After your period gets back to normal, use a menstrual cup instead of pads or tampons. In the near term, you will likely need breast pads (for leakage when your milk comes in). I recommend washable breast pads instead of disposable ones. I used them for months after each baby was born. Regarding baby, you could avoid buying/having plastic toys and instead choose wooden, fabric, etc. I bet there are glass baby bottles out there to use in place of plastic (no personal knowledge).

      1. I don’t think you do need warm water when dealing with odors, you just need a detergent that tackles those odors well, or just sprinkle baking soda over the clothes before turning on the machine. Have you tried using cold on the clothes and it just doesn’t work, or do you just mentally associate warm water with better cleaning power? I’ve been listening to Jolie Kerr, she’s said a few times that heat can actually set in bad smells (especially urine) and make them worse.

        But there’s also nothing necessarily wrong with occasionally using warm water, if cold is your default for most loads (cold water and low dry temps is better for your clothes in the long run). Is still feel like I need hot, or at least warm, water for my towels, so no judgment.

        1. If your washer has a fabric softener receptacle, fill it with plain white vinegar. It will go a long way toward cleaner, fresher smelling laundry. Another Jolie Kerr tip.

    5. Stop buying new stuff. You don’t need it most of the time. Baby stuff, clothes, and furniture are all prime candidates for used goods.

    6. In recent years I’ve mostly been trying to notice what items I throw away frequently and replace them with their reusable counterparts as much as possible. When I buy items I think about how long they will last. I’ve been replacing rusty metal bake-ware with glass or silicone when possible. I have a set of rags for cleaning that I use instead of paper towels. I also bought a bunch of white flannel “reusable baby wipes” from e tsy that I use instead of kleenex. I buy a lot of clothes from thrift stores. My kid mostly wears hand me downs. I rarely replace furniture or decor, and when I do buy furniture I try to shop at antique stores. I live in an old house. I drive an older car.

      There’s that old saying “Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without.” It’s kind of my goal. It’s hard though. A lot of the “old” ways of doing things made a lot more sense before we were all working 60 hours a week.

      1. Also, C N N had an interesting article called “The Most Effective Ways to Curb Climate Change Might Surprise You” recently. It was very eye opening to me. I do all these little things, and plan to continue doing them, because I don’t think just because I’m doing a small good thing means it’s not worthwhile. That said.

        Biggest impacts in the following categories:
        Food: throwing away less food and eating a plant heavy diet.
        Transportation: driving an electric car and using more efficient methods of shipping goods.
        Homes and Cities: Switching to LED bulbs and designing more walkable cities
        Land use: Protecting and restoring tropical forests and planting more bamboo
        Electricity use: harness wind energy and build solar farms
        Materials & waste mgmt: Clean up chemicals in refrigerators and air conditioners and build with “greener” cement compounds
        Empowering women: increasing access to family planning and educating girls

        The top five biggest impacts overall:
        1. manage refrigeration chemicals
        2. install onshore wind turbines
        3. cut down on food waste
        4. eat more plants and less meat
        5. restore tropical forests

        1. The CNN article reached a lot of people but I think it was kind of misleading in that it skipped over a majorly significant issue that people hate to discuss….which is that the absolute best thing you can do for your climate footprint is not to reproduce or reproduce at a lower than replacement rate.

          For whatever reason, people (especially in North America) refuse to accept this as an issue. I once basically ran a Green Party candidate off my front porch after she told me that she wanted to make the world a better place for her Five children.

          1. Oh yes, that’s definitely true too. I have a particularly crunchy friend/acquaintance who has five kids, which has always confused me.

          2. Travel is a huge one too. I fly ~50,000 miles/year for a combo of work and pleasure and that has to be hurting the planet much more than the occasional hamburger. Travel is my biggest passion in life, but I am thinking seriously about how I can cut back back on it.
            I don’t know if there’s actual data to support this, but anecdotally in my generation (mid-30s) big families seem to be back “in.” I feel like in the 1980s most working moms had 1 or 2 kids and only SAHMs had bigger families. Everyone says “three is the new two” and I’ve seen that among the professional women I know. I even know quite a few who have four. I do judge a little, if I’m being honest, especially at parents of 3+ who pretend like they care about climate change or the environment. I would have rolled my eyes hard at that Greenpeace person too.

          3. Anon at 1:59 – Where do you live? In my circle, I don’t know anyone who is having 3+ kids. I know almost as many people who are 1 and done as who have 2, and I’ve never heard “three is the new two.” In contrast, growing up in the Midwest, about half the families had 3+ kids regardless of whether the mom worked. I wonder if this is more a regional difference that you are noticing, and not a new trend.

            That at least seems to match the data. Per the world bank, the fertility rate was 1.844 in 1985 and 1.766 in 2017. It did jump up to just over 2 in the late 90s/early 2000s, but has been on a decline since 2007.

          4. @Anon at 3:13 – I grew up in and currently live in Midwestern college towns. To be fair, when I was growing up, lots of families had three or more kids, there just weren’t that many women who worked and the working moms tended to have at most two kids, whereas now there are more working moms and I perceive it as being more common for a working mom to have 3+. I’m not sure I’m making a statement about overall birth rates but more about birthrates among working moms.
            Fwiw, I went to college and law school in a big city in the northeast (students from all over US). I’m one and done and am the only person I know from college or law school who is in that situation entirely by choice. My closest friends are a PhD engineer who wants four kids (trying for third currently), an executive in tech who is currently pregnant with her third, and a Big Law attorney who has three. None of them have any ties to the Midwest, although two of the three are Catholic and from large families themselves.

    7. For me:
      – Buy/consume less. Think carefully about new purchases. Hold off on every possible upgrade.
      – Buy second-hand and/or accept hand-me-downs, particularly for baby items. For 0-12 month clothes in particular, people receive and buy so many clothes, and babies grow so quickly, that many items are only worn 1-2 times. Also works for furniture (other than upholstery and mattresses). I’ve accepted furniture from family members, bought at estate sales and garage sales, and bought from Facebook marketplace.
      – Reduce food waste. This is a combination of planning meals, eating leftovers for lunch, and being creative about using up odds and ends. I also challenge myself to hold off on going to the grocery store for 1-2 more days and find a way to use up what’s in the fridge.

    8. I’m reducing my meat consumption. I haven’t eliminated meat, but I’ve greatly reduced it, especially non-local meat. One easy way for me is that when I eat out, I eat vegetarian.

      I also have almost stopped online deliveries (helps me shop less and reduces packing waste/transport) and do things like using reusable face pads instead of cotton pads to remove makeup or apply toner, reusable bags and produce bags, and reusing everything I can until it’s not usable anymore.

      One thing I haven’t been able to let go of is paper towels. I love how absorbent they are and still use them when cleaning. Does anyone have a good alternative that absorbs moisture quickly and doesn’t leave fuzz behind?

      1. Have you tried microfiber rags? I like them a lot.

        I am also trying to reduce my meat consumption. I find that instead of leaving meat out of recipes, I find it more successful to identify new favorite vegetarian recipes that works for my needs and add them to the rotation. I also add extra veggies on the side or in my curry, which just reduces the amount of meat. My recent batch of butter chicken had only one chicken breast +although they always are huge), lasting for two meals for two people.

      2. I’ve never had an issue with my microfiber cloths leaving fuzz behind. They’re more absorbent and clean better than paper towels. I have a variety of them from different stores.

      3. What are you using them for?

        I have stopped buying paper towels. I only use paper for raw chicken and window cleaning.

        I use microfibre for bathroom, kitchen and outdoors (aka bird shit) and feel Shit about microplastics but oh well. Chemicals vs micro = doubt.

        For napkins I use (home-sewn but you do you) cotton napkins.

        For shopping I use no-shop-containers when possible, but personally I prefer local/eco Vs non-plastic

    9. Testing and prepping meals that freeze well might be helpful to cut back on your take-out delivery habit! It can take a few goes to figure out what you like best! I find having a meal already complete in my freezer cuts back on my urge to order delivery.

    10. Such good tips here! I just brought my own container for leftovers for the first time and it was such a small thing but prevented me from using the coated paper takeout box.
      Reducing food waste is a great place to work on your footprint. A lot of things can be frozen if you have trouble using them up. You then need a routine to use up your frozen foods. I’m working on that, trying to start my meal planning by going through fridge and freezer, looking what needs to be used up and building meals around that.
      If your city has organic waste/compost, know that paper towels and Kleenex are compostable.
      If I need to fly and want to mitigate, I buy carbon offsets, which isn’t so much fixing the problem as it is buying time in the grand scheme of things.
      I am renting myself, so can’t get solar panels, but I am asking my employer why our new sustainability initiative doesn’t have any solar energy plans, given the number of buildings and the amount of sun hours we have.
      We bought a small used car which will likely keep going for several more years, but I’m pretty sure that the next car will be a hybrid or electric.
      I recently wrote to Trader Joe’s customer service, asking why all their teabags are wrapped in plastic (waiting for an answer).

      1. Re the last item: not all tea bags are wrapped like that. The Irish Breakfast comes in a foil packet, with each bag packed with nothing else. I decant them to a loose tea caddy to keep them fresh.

    11. We used a cloth diaper service — I understand there’s a lot of back and forth about the environmental impacts of that, too, but there’s also something to be said for the efficiencies of scale.

      I want to make (?) a simple reusable cloth replacement for paper towels. An important thing for me is to admit that if it’s truly inconvenient, I’m not going to use it (which is why the cloth diaper service worked so well for us). So I want to put together something that is the convenience equivalent of paper towels, but reusable.

      1. Paper towel substitute = regular old rags. Great use for sheets, towels, fabric scraps, etc. you can also use newspaper for cleaning glass.

        1. Yes! I think what I really need is like, a cute and orderly way to deal with rags. I’ve seen people who make little snap together rolls and I have the snaps and snap-sticker-inner thing to do that, so maybe that is my solution.

          1. Or, stick them all in a box/bag and pull them out Kleenex style. The snaps just seem to make it more complicated than it needs to be.

          2. I’ve seen people use wide-mouth glass jars full of rags. All you need is a nearby, convenient place to chuck the dirty ones. (Maybe just another jar?)

    12. Honestly, these things are have really marginal enviro benefits (in the case of diapers – that’s actually a worse enviro choice – as a previous poster said the diapers have to be reused by like 5 kids to just break even with disposable.)

      This is going to be really snarky – but do these if they make you feel good but they honestly have little overall impact on your enviro “foot print”

      If you want to seriously improve your enviro foot print:

      – reduce your air travel – one return trip between NYC and SF is akin to using 250,000 plastic drinking straws
      – move into a smaller, energy efficient house that you keep pretty cool in the winter and pretty warm in the summer
      – stop driving a car and switch to public transit or walking/biking

      Also, do some research into your grid. I live in the midwest where most of our energy is produce from coal plants. Therefore electric cars that are plugged in and powered off the grid are actually MORE polluting than standard combustion energy cars.

      Finally, take care to run your most energy consuming appliances during off peak time. During peak energy consumption hours “peaker” plants come online that are really dirty and expensive to run. Shift your consumption to lower demand hours when the cheaper/cleaner plants are running only.

      1. I completely agree, but I think there’s room for pursuing both. Obviously throwing away all of the plastic in my house to replace it with new slightly more environmentally friendly options isn’t the way to go, and even these small things like reusable bags and Tupperware won’t make a huge dent. But I do think there’s power in refocusing how I/we as a society think about waste – so much of our move towards convenience (free overnight shipping, prepackaged foods, etc) just seems to generate so much waste, and it makes me a little sick to think of it all.

        I am working on the macro solutions as well, but I think we all can recognize that those are much harder to accomplish or may be unfeasible in the short term. So I guess I personally think it’s worth trying to push my habits on the margins, even if the impact is minimal. Who knows – maybe I’m just assuaging my own guilt, but I figure it is at worst breakeven to what I would otherwise be doing.

        Your point on the grid is fair as well – I think this trade off is also something to consider with things like reusable cloth (diapers, “paper” towels, etc) – where I live, we have no shortage of water, so I’m more concerned about landfill than the water I use to wash them. But in another state, my calculus may be different.

        1. The biggest issue with cloth diapers is actually the enviro impact related to the cotton.

          I agree that doing small things is objectively better than not doing small things, but understand that they are just that – small things.

          I guess I just roll my eyes at the metal straw type enviro changes because it often comes off as more virtue signalling than real enviro changes when the people using them aren’t also making an effort to do any of the bigger things.

      2. Piggybacking off of this with one more PSA: Idling your car until it cools down is way less efficient – the AC runs better when the car is actually driving! You will get cool faster AND waste less gas!

        1. Same for heat in the winter. Also, avoid leaving the car to idle because of the people who want to wait in the car instead of go in. If it’s too hot, they go inside or roll down the window. If it’s too cold, they go inside.

    13. There are a lot of good tips about how to get things here. I wanted to recommend the free section of craigslist for getting rid of things. I’m always surprised at the number of responses I get for things – most recently I was giving away empty spice jars and I had at least 10 responses.

      I’d much rather give things away than have to be home to meet someone and haggle over whether I will take $5 rather than $10 or whatever.

      The only issue I’ve had with craigslist is flakes. So now I don’t tell the first person who responds that they have it. I wait for a few responses and the person who tells me exactly when they can come get it is the person I usually choose.

    14. One thing I’ve started doing is bringing my own silverware with me when I bring my leftovers (in reusable containers) to work. It’s kind of crazy that we think extracting dead dinosaurs, shipping, molding, shipping, etc all for a spoon that gets used for 5 minutes is better than just remembering our own silverware.

      I also bought unpaper towels on Etsy. Theoretically you could just go to TJ Maxx and get a stack of white dishcloths. I got two sizes – a little one that folds up to 3″ square that I tuck in my lunch bag and a larger one that serves as a paper towel. It’s no problem at all to throw them in any of the loads of laundry we regularly do.

    15. Going Green, I think it’s great to do what feels right and sustainable for your family. I’d recommend thinking about what you care most about (climate change, filling landfills, local air pollution, etc.) and maximize for those values.

      For me, I care about climate change and local air pollution way more than filling landfills (not that I want to needlessly fill landfills, it’s just lower priority). Also, I care a lot about convenience—it’d be frustrating and unsustainable for me to do a lot of what you’re planning.

      The HIGHEST IMPACT thing I do: voting and donating to candidates who prioritize the environment.

      Personal choices that would have a large impact if lots of people did the same thing:
      -mostly biking (cargo bike!) and, when I have to drive, I drive an electric car. It’s easier and more fun to bike with my kids than to drive them.
      -not flying as much, especially long haul (again, easier and more fun not to fly much with young kids)
      -eating very little meat, particularly very little red meat, which is easier, cheaper, healthier, and totally fine for my family. It’d be better for the planet if we cut back on dairy, but we enjoy it a lot, so not cutting back there.
      -cutting back on food waste (often, this means buying prewashed greens or frozen veggies in plastic bags so it actually gets eaten before going bad)

      Other stuff that has some environmental benefits, but what makes them habit is that they’re normal, easy, enjoyable, or otherwise beneficial for my family:
      -composting
      -packing lunches in dishwasher-safe Tupperware/bento box rather than plastic baggies
      -not buying many individually packaged snacks
      -used small glass jars (like for canning/jams) for storing pumped breastmilk
      -wash almost everything on cold (I don’t want to take the time to sort laundry)
      -grow some of our own food
      -eat locally grown food
      -not buying a lot of stuff and not renovating space that’s ok (construction has a huge impact)
      -buying organic (do this somewhat for us, but mostly because I’m concerned about the impact of pesticides on children in farming communities)

      It’s trendy to pooh-pooh having things delivered, but I haven’t seen studies showing that the environmental impact is much greater than driving to stores. I won’t give up having clothes, groceries, medicines, etc. delivered, though I try to use services that take care of their employees where available.

  10. I would like an old fashioned hot water bottle to snuggle with in bed this winter. Anyone have one they can recommend?

    2. My mom introduced me to hot water bottles and they are THE BEST. I just buy whatever is at the pharmacy though. You want to keep checking them for age because you don’t want them spilling water all over the place. Here’s what I do with mine (when I want to be elaborate and maximize the warmth): First I’ll fill it up with hot water from the tap about an hour before bed. Then I put the bottle into my bed, where my back will be, and cover it with my blankets. Right before I go to bed I fill it with fresh hot water (from the tap, but you can also heat water on the stove) and bring it to bed with me. Since I had it in the bed earlier there is a nice warm spot for me to nestle into. My mom likes to put hers by her feet but I keep it at my side. It is normally still somewhat warm in the morning. Sometimes I will get those air heating pads like Hot Hands and put those inside the cover with the water bottle.

      I keep the water bottle inside a gallon ziplock inside a cloth cover due to leak paranoia. I’ve only ever had one break though.

      LOVE THEM. They are great for cramps too.

  11. I own my house with my SO, and we have a roommate who has their own bathroom/2 bedrooms to use for the last year. We charge a flat rate for rent to include all utilities: water, internet, gas, electricity, cleaning lady. Our water bill for the last 3 months was $120 more than normal – he had asked to install a bidet attachment to their toilet and we said sure, and now I think the higher water bill is due to that. Is it appropriate to ask him to either take it off, or if it’s still this much higher for our next water bill, he has to contribute extra? We’ve become friends with him, and get along for the most part, so I don’t want to cause issues.
    Second question, I think his girlfriend might be staying with us for 2-3 weeks. He told us she isn’t working at that time (she lives 4 hours away) but didn’t say if she was planning on spending all that time at our house. Is it okay to ask her to pay something if she’s staying here, and if so what would you ask?
    Mortgage is $1700, he pays $700, utilities are around $400.

    1. That’s a lot of water usage. Are you sure the bidet attachment doesn’t have a constant leak?

      1. I would have your meter inspected. An extra $120 per month in water/sewer would be over 8,000 gallons above my normal bill.

    2. According to the googles, “A minute of wash using a bidet equates to 0.13 gallons every use, and if we assume an average of 1/3 of an hour of washing and rinsing a day, it will sum up to water consumption per day of 2.64 gallons, which will only cost about $0.16 per month.” So yeah, I doubt the extra 3 gallons a month are costing $120. Maybe there was something faulty with the installation such that it’s running constantly and that’s adding to the cost? $120 ADDED to a water bill seems insane though, in most places that would be thousands of gallons, no? There may be a problem with your meter reading, too. I wouldn’t assume it’s the bidet, at all.

      If the water bill stays high and you can’t pinpoint another reason, I think it would be fair to go to him and say, hey, when we originally set the utilities fee it was based on a total monthly cost of $400, and that’s now gone up to $520, would you be amenable to raising your contribution proportionally? But if you have a lease that says he’s paying X for utilities, he’s perfectly within his rights to say no to any increase — that’s a risk you took on by setting a flat fee (just like he took on the risk if the cost were to go down and you would benefit).

      1. Our bill comes quarterly, so it’s $40/month extra. But yes, I agree it seems outrageously high so I’ll have them check the meter and all of our pipes.

    3. If your water bill is $120 more per month, and the rate is the same, you probably have a leak. It may be that the bidet was not installed properly, or you may have a leak or toilet running or something elsewhere. Make sure to check outdoor faucets if you don’t find anything inside. Call a plumber if you don’t find anything on your own.

      This is probably not universal, but my water company has a forgiveness program if you find and fix a leak.

    4. Since everyone else commented on the water bill, I’ll respond to the girlfriend part of the question. I don’t think you can increase his rent because he has a guest for a couple weeks. And if I were your roommate and you asked, I’d be SUPER annoyed.

      1. Oh, completely agree. Especially since he has two bedrooms — it sounds like there’s plenty of space for her.

      2. Agree on this. She is using “his” rooms and is adding nothing substantial to the cost etc. She is a guest/visitor, not a permanent renter who has moved in. It is not ok to ask her to pay something now. However after she leaves, at some point you should be clear with your roommate what would happen if she moves in permanently (would the rent go up? would they factor that into their decision of where to live together?).

    5. You should have a lease with him that covers all of these issues. It may be hard to increase his rent for the increased utilities, at least until his lease term is over, but you could ask to fix the bidet so that it’s not leaking and messing up your water bill. Likewise, a good lease will cover the issue of long-term guests (usually by prohibiting them). That doesn’t solve the interpersonal question, but you could say something like, “Hey, according to your lease, you’re not supposed to have guests for more than 7 days at a time. We’re willing to allow this if you kick in an extra $200/month for utilities, fridge space, kitchen use, etc.”

  12. If you were on a business trip with a coworker and your coworker got off the plane before you did, would you be surprised if they left without waiting for you? This happened to me last night where my coworker apparently took off the second our plane landed at midnight, even though I was five or six rows behind him on the plane and it would have been polite in my opinion to say goodbye before we went our separate ways. Is this how we treat coworkers now? I’m probably a unreasonably annoyed because said coworker isn’t a great employee and he also made zero effort to either make small talk or have an actual conversation/ask me a single question about myself (not even a “how was Labor Day”) despite the two of us traveling together and sharing a rental car, but am I overreacting to the plane component here?

    1. If we are arriving home very late, my co-workers and I usually say our goodbyes before boarding the last flight and then leave separately immediately upon deplaning.

    2. You are overreacting. I travel frequently and there’s an awkwardness inherent in traveling with coworkers, especially at the end of a trip when everyone just wants to be home. Yes, it would have been polite to say goodbye, but maybe he had a reason to bolt (emergency bathroom trip for one). Let it go.

    3. Were you arriving back home? If I arrive back home at midnight, I’m taking off from the airport ASAP. I’m not waiting to say good-bye to a co-worker. That doesn’t seem rude to me, because what is the benefit to him waiting? You get to walk to the exit together? Not worth it at that time of night. (full disclosure, if the plan landed at 7pm, I may wait, but probably would not)

      If you were arriving at your destination, that’s rude and he should have waited so that you could split a taxi.

      1. The benefit to him is being secure in the knowledge that he’s a polite human being. What’s the benefit to any of us personally from any of the polite interactions that simply make the world go around? I wanted to get home too, trust me, but I thought a 5-second goodbye was appropriate first. Not going to address it with him or anything but just over socially inept men today.

        1. I don’t think he was rude or socially inept at all. There was no need or reason whatsoever for you two to interact.

        2. I think it is rude of you to expect him to wait around to say bye-bye to you. It was midnight.

        3. A five-second goodbye makes sense when you’re in the same room and can exchange such a pleasantry easily enough. At midnight though, when he’d need to wait around at the gate to say it, doesn’t really make sense. It might have been a good idea though, for him to say before the flight “we’re sitting apart and I’ll probably get off before you, but since it’s going to be so late I plan on going straight to my car once I get off. Have a pleasant trip home, and I’ll see you in the office.” He also could have sent a text once he was off the plane “it’s late, I’m heading straight to my car, goodnight!” might have been fine as well. Not morally required by any means, but at least clarifying to you that he wasn’t going to wait might have been considerate, so you wouldn’t wonder where he was.

        5. Honestly, the most I’d expect is a “see you later” or even wave across the airport. Expecting any more – especially after a long day of travel when you just want to get home! – is a bit much.

        6. i can tell you that unless the co-worker was my friend, I definitely would not wait to say goodbye, and even if the person was a friend, I still probably wouldn’t if we landed at midnight.

    4. I would’ve waited for you until you got off at the gate and then walked through customs/baggage collection together. If I needed to get home ASAP for some reason, I’d have said something like “I’m going to have to jet home as soon as we land, so I might not see you at the other end. If that’s the case, see you at the office on Friday!” when we boarded the plane.

      1. That is what I view as the polite approach – wait the approximately 30 seconds for coworker to deboard, walk out, say goodbye at the curb. It’s just not that hard.

      2. This. I travel a lot with coworkers. Standard to either wait or say goodbye prior to boarding. In my experience this is not a gender thing.

      3. Yup. I am with the OP here, it was totally rude and the time delay for a small social nicety would have made zero difference to the coworker and a lot to her.

    5. Yes. It’s freaking midnight. Everyone just wants to go home. I would probably wait on coworkers, because I’m a woman and I’ve been socialized to be “nice” rather than to care about my own comfort and desires, but I don’t think he was unreasonable to go home without saying bye.

      1. +1 to this being a woman thing. I don’t think any of my male coworkers would expect that this was required of them in any way.

    7. If this was the flight home, there is no reason for your coworker to wait for you. It’s freaking midnight. Five or six rows can equate to waiting up to ten more minutes. For what, so you can spend 15 seconds saying, “Ok, goodnight, see ya later?”

      Further, you wouldn’t be “going your separate ways,” since everyone generally walks the same direction through the airport until going past security, so he’d really be committing to a full conversation the length of the terminal. At midnight, after a flight, I can completely understand not wanting to deal. Especially since, gently, you sound like a pretty needy person.

      If this was the flight to the destination, then I’ll grant you that’s weird. It’s pretty typical to share transport to whatever the business destination is after arriving at the airport.

        1. Six people, six rows = 36 people, so it’s absolutely crazy that each person might take “up to” 17 seconds each to exit the plane?

      2. Sure, I’ll grant you that not waiting isn’t as rude as calling someone needy for an innocent question.

    8. I travel for work almost weekly. I never wait for coworkers after flights when coming home, and no one has ever waited for me. You are overreacting.

    10. Whoa you are expecting way too much of your coworker. This is not your best friend, this is someone you work with. Seriously, stop being so petty.

      Usually I rush off the plane because I have to pee – not something I’d want to have a long conversation about with a coworker.

    11. This happened at MIDNIGHT?? You’re freaking insane. Of course he wants to get home as fast as possible.

      To answer your more general question, it’s completely normal if you’re arriving back to your home airport. People have different needs – some people need to use the bathroom or get food, some people have to wait for checked bags while others have carry-ons and want to get straight on the parking lot shuttle – and you’re going home in separate cars anyway, so I don’t see any point in waiting to meet up after the plane just to say goodbye before going separate places. It would be rude to me if you were arriving at a work destination and going the same place and could share a cab or ride on public transit together and he left without you.

    12. I can understand why you feel slighted in this instance, you seem like someone who puts a lot of value in small talk and pleasantries (“goodnight,” “how was your weekend,” “it’s chilly this morning,” “how was the traffic getting in today?” etc.) and waiting for you so he can bid you a proper goodnight falls into that category. You may also have felt uncomfortable being at the airport at night by yourself, not fully sure whether he’d actually gone already (and maybe hoping he’d walk with you to the parking lot so you’d feel safe). You’ve acknowledged that he doesn’t do those things in general, it’s probably not that he’d chosen to withhold those pleasantries and gestures from you because you’re somehow not worth the trouble, more likely he just doesn’t put as much value on them as you do.

      I do agree he could have been more considerate, either by letting you know ahead of time he was going to leave right after he deplanes, or sending you a text letting you know he’d gone, or like you said maybe he could have waited for you, but he didn’t really have to do any of those things, and his leaving without saying goodnight wasn’t the major act of disrespect you’re making it out to be; it’s a minor slight, and ultimately you make an effort to let minor slights go. I think you need to accept that this is his default style, and if you’d like him to do something different, you may need to instigate the small talk yourself, and speak up when you need something from him: “Say Arnie, I know you’re a few rows ahead of me, but could you wait for me at the gate? I hate walking through the airport late at night.” If you can’t communicate an expectation, you need to learn to accept that expectation not being met.

      1. Airports are some of the safest public places on earth…everyone in them is affluent enough to be flying, has a specific purpose for being there, and there are no weapons. Why on earth would you not be comfortable alone in one late at night? It’s so gross to me that a woman would be like “I’m so fragile, I need an escort!” to her male co-worker.

        1. Honestly, I’m getting the vibe from her posts that she has a bit of a crush on this guy and she resents that he clearly has no interest in her, romantically or otherwise, so she’s framing it as him being “rude” for not reciprocating her interest. The level of umbrage taken here is just so out of proportion.

          3. I feel like it’s sort of s3xist, not to mention hetero-normative, to say she has a crush, but when I was in a similar situation it was definitely because I had a little crush.

          4. I mean, is anyone imagining that a woman who isn’t single (hetero or not) would make the OP? I’d be too focused on being ready to get home to my partner at midnight to give two effs what my coworker five rows ahead of me did or didn’t do.

        2. WOAH, calm down there, I never said that I, specifically, needed such a thing. I was suggesting the OP might have felt a little uneasy by herself and may have wanted some company going back to the parking lot, but I will also acknowledge that I may be wrong about that.

          “I understand you might feel this way” does not mean the same thing as “I also feel this way.”

        3. Yikes, let’s not equate affluence with safety. Some of the most dangerous people are rich people. Particularly if the crime at issue is sexual assault.

          1. I did not say rich people do not commit crimes or all poor people are criminals. But affluent people are less likely to commit certain crimes, particularly crimes driven by a need for money, like mugging. You’re much more likely to be mugged in a bus station than an airport because there are many more people in a bus station who desperately need money. That’s part of why an airport is safer than a bus station, but definitely not the whole money.

    13. Honestly I’m a little shocked and hurt I’ve been called insane, needy, and petty for posting this. I’m a real person, you know? Maybe it’s not common to feel peeved about this issue. That’s fine. I thought this site was a good place to check on norms and stuff and I guess I was very wrong today.

        1. What makes you think this person is a tr0ll? Do you know what tr0lling is? Come on.

          OP- if someone in my office did that, it would be perceived as very rude. That said, we are very friendly with each other and when we travel we eat together, drink together, exchange sincere pleasantries at the end of a good trip, drive each other home… even with the people I’m not that close to, they would still hang around for an extra 5 minutes and walk with me through the airport. It sounds like your office culture, and this guy in particular given what else you’ve said about him, is not that way. So I wouldn’t take it personally. I think this is a know your office situation more than anything else. Even in my less friendly offices I have a hard time imagining someone doing this. It’s not that you’re *needy*- you don’t need him for anything. You just want to get a sense of normative behavior.

      3. If it’s any consolation, OP, this has made me rethink* my mode of runningTF off the plane/through the airport the second I land when I’m getting home. I always have to pee, but also I am just *done* with work, with talking to work people, with having to be *on* on some level. And if my family is picking me up, I can’t wait to see them!

        That being said, I’ve stumbled into a convenient thing of having loyalty to / status with a different airline than everyone I work with, so I am very seldom on the same plane as colleagues.

        *maybe not enough to change it, but enough to give a heads up before we board, perhaps.

        1. Yeah, but a heads up saying what? “Hey just so you know I’m gonna head directly to my car after we land, so don’t be offended if I don’t wait for you!” That seems even worse than just doing it. “Hey, I’ve considered whether I’m going to want to spend any more time with you after we land and decided I don’t. So… see ya.”

          1. Yeah. Super weird. I never wait for co-workers when arriving at home, and I’m not going to start announcing that to people, I think that would be much weirder.

          2. Ha good point. IDK, just a “see you tomorrow!” when we board the plane? Or maybe I’ll keep just scurrying away like the tired raccoon that I am?

          3. No that’s honestly helpful — “see you tomorrow” (or Monday, or whatever) is good, it establishes the expectation that you guys won’t be waiting for each other. Also good to use if your coworker is the one in the row ahead and you want to hint to them that you don’t want/expect them to wait for you!

          4. Daisy, this is particularly relevant for me, because if I’m on a flight w a coworker they almost def. have better seats than me! “See you tomorrow!” will set a clear expectation like “no need to wait for me!”

          5. Yes – just “see you tomorrow” is enough. Also helps if you’re the person in the back who doesn’t want to chat either and will scurry off for the bathroom. Knowing that my boss was bailing straight for his car meant that I didn’t have to keep an eye out for him when exiting the plane and could just put my head down and bail.

            Seriously, I’m kind of surprised by all the “you’re insane” comments above. Based on all these responses this is apparently an office culture dependent situation, so I guess know your office.

          6. I don’t know, I think something like “hey, I probably won’t see you when we land, so have a nice flight and I’ll see you in the office tomorrow” doesn’t really sound that weird, but it does set expectations early on, and gives the OP a chance to say “what, you’re not gonna wait for me at the gate? my travel companions usually walk with me to the parking lot” or whatever, and they can have some kind of back and forth discussing his reasons for wanting to bolt, her reasons for wanting him to wait, maybe he changes his mind or she adjusts her expectations. I do think communication is helpful, but absent communication, I think giving someone the benefit of the doubt when they don’t do what you expected is a good idea here.

    14. You said he doesn’t try to make small talk. He’s not concerned with building or maintaining a relationship with you. It’s annoying but I’m sure your not surprised he ran off.

      1. She wanted them to walk through the terminal together so she could spend some more time stewing about how he didn’t ask her how her Labor Day was.

          1. It’s pretty ridiculous to obsess over your co-worker not asking you how your holiday weekend was.

          2. She’s not obsessing. She asked a question. You, Daisy, and maybe others are just being mean for no reason. Good god what happened to this place.

          3. Come on. She didn’t just “ask a question.” She was incredibly melodramatic (“Is this how we treat coworkers now?”) about a guy not going out of his way to be friendly to her at MIDNIGHT after a long day of travel, and then engaged in an over-dramatic flounce when people pointed out, fairly gently, that she was the one being unreasonable.

          4. Incredibly melodramatic? Spare me. Did she say she was going to confront him? Go to HR? Use emotive language? Use an exclamation point? Say that she cried? Say that she was hurt? No. All of these ridiculous comments are just assuming the worst intentions on her part and reading in what you want to see. She even recognized in the OP that her annoyance might be excessive. Also, flounce? Seriously? She was called insane, “freaking insane,” a tr0ll, petty, needy, rude, and accused of having a crush on this guy who apparently doesn’t even speak, which makes no sense. And the piling on has continued.

            You are an absolute jerk.

    15. Wait, you’re mad because someone you clearly don’t care for didn’t stick around to say bye? Uhh, that’s some next level energy on a nothing thing…

    17. Let me suggest that if he’s not exchanging pleasantries with you, he doesn’t want to be friends. He may not even like you. It doesn’t mean you can’t work together. It means you keep it professional. After traveling with you and sharing a rental car, he’s probably ready for a break from chatting with you. I would be too. I like my coworkers but they are not my actual friends.

      You can’t sit around nursing a grudge about him not waiting for you at the airport or asking you about what you did for the Labor Day weekend. That is just expecting too much, and it doesn’t mean he’s wrong or unprofessional for not wanting the same level of chitchat as you do.

    18. This whole debate reminds me that many years ago, one of my dad’s (male) co-workers complained to their boss because my dad didn’t say “good morning” to him (my dad isn’t a chit-chatty guy and also didn’t especially like this co-worker). The boss told my dad he had to start saying “good morning” to this guy every day, and my dad told him no and the boss could fire him for not saying good morning if he wanted (he didn’t). Sooo it’s not only women who expect pleasantries!

      1. This whole debate reminds me that many years ago, one of my dad’s (male) co-workers complained to their boss because my dad didn’t say “good morning” to him (my dad isn’t a chit-chatty guy and also didn’t especially like this co-worker). The boss told my dad he had to start saying “good morning” to this guy every day, and my dad told him no and the boss could fire him for not saying good morning if he wanted (he didn’t). Sooo it’s not only women who expect pleasantries!

        1. I think there’s a difference between saying “good morning” to someone who hasn’t said it to you, and ignoring someone when they do say it to you. One is arguably optional, the other less so.

        2. No no no you can’t project French cultural customs on American work places. That is ridiculous. (Especially invoking a French example, when many Americans find the French rude!)

          I would definitely not be inclined to interact more than the bare minimum with a coworker who was ridiculous enough to report me to HR/the boss for not saying good morning.

    19. Going to echo the chorus that I travel frequently-ish and I would definitely have not waited to say goodbye. And honestly, I would operate under the assumption that my coworker would be secretly grateful that I didn’t force a situation for awkward small talk at midnight after a flight.

      PLUS what if it ends up being awkwardly more than good bye and hard for both of you to get out of? “Oh, just wanted to say bye. Oh, you’re taking an Uber too? To the city? I guess now it would be weird not to share. Ugh, now my attempt to be 2 minutes of polite just turned into an awkward 30+ minutes of small talk neither of us want but neither know how to get out of now.” End scene.

      1. I also think that his decision to bolt and her feeling miffed that he did are two different products of travel-related stress or exhaustion. He’s probably an introvert who felt peopled-out after the trip and just wanted to get home, and maybe didn’t even think OP might’ve wanted him to wait because he had tunnel vision. She, on the other hand, likely puts a lot of stock in pleasantries, may have felt extra put off because the trip had been tiring and it was so late. I know I can sometimes feel cranky when I’ve been traveling (particularly if there’ve been delays) and little things can feel like a bigger deal than they ought to be and stick in my mind more than they should.

        On my end, I’m glad OP came here for a sanity check, I think some of the responses have been a little over-the-top (and hoooboy do I know what it’s like to have people pile-on with horrible assumptions about your motives and what kind of person you are based on what little information you gave them), but I do hope you’re open to some of the feedback given, and will take what some of us have said into account next time you’re traveling for work.

  13. This one might be a new one here. I work in a high rise office building and I have a plant in my office. My secretary felt that the plant needed more soil, so she brought in some organic soil made out of compost from her home 2 months ago. Soon thereafter, the plant had dozens of little gnats. We tried putting the yellow sticky cards in there, and maybe a hundred of them stuck to the yellow sticky tape. I’ve been changing out the cards every week, but the problem is not yet resolved and I can usually see 1 or 2 gnats flying around my office every day and it is super annoying. I would throw out the plant if it weren’t a gift from an old friend. Any advice on how I can fix this problem for good?

    2. Repot it with new soil. You could even wash the roots a bit, to get all the soil off. I know this is a pain to do at the office. Take it home over the weekend and take it to a nursery, too.

    3. I’ve had this issue before. After lots of research, this is what worked for me:
      1) Treat with an insecticidal soap (you can make this yourself or buy it) or neem oil mixture on top of the soil to kill gnats and larvae in the soil
      2) Keep putting out the sticky tape to catch the adults to keep them from laying more eggs
      3) Remove the top inch or so of soil where the eggs are laid
      4) Water the plant from the bottom as fungus gnats don’t like dry soil
      5) cover the top layer of the plant with potting sand, at least one inch, not soil – this will help choke out the larvae and the adults find it too difficult to crawl through to lay eggs

    4. Also, have a little chat with your secretary? If she did it without checking with you first, this seems really inappropriate to me. Not in a formal reprimand kind of way, but in a “hey please don’t touch my stuff without discussing it with me first?” kind of way.

    5. I worked in an office with a plant service. One of my colleagues had one of those tall corn plants and it got gnats. It was so gross. I got one in my mouth once when I was meeting with him in his office. (He was also a cluttery person with a messy desk so it just contributed to this notion that his office was unclean.)

      The plant service gave him a bottle of spray that he had to use on the soil of the plant, not the leaves, every day. I’m sure it was somewhat poisonous but IMO better than getting a gnat in your mouth while trying to conduct business. The gnats were greatly reduced immediately and completely gone in a couple of weeks.

      I would go to a nearby garden center (strong preference for a local nursery and not the nursery section of Home Depot) and ask for a houseplant insecticidal spray. They’ll know what the problem is.

      1. I’m sorry to be insensitive and that sounds terrible! But also, a little bit funny that you opened your mouth to speak to a coworker and a gnat went in! That is one unexpected office hazard!

    6. Put stones on top of the soil and water less frequently. It may not be the soil, but that it is too damp. Fungus gnats show up if you overwater.

  14. Hi. I’m one of those readers/commenters that recently took time off for my mental health. I’m currently seeing a therapist, journaling, marriage counseling, lexapro + wellbutrin, exercising, breathing, meditating, being social as needed, setting small goals, etc .

    I’m looking for mental health resources on social media. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. Any accounts or thought leaders on this topic that I should follow – organizations, celebrities, professionals, especially focusing on the usual stressors of middle-aged women?

    Thanks.

    1. The best mental health resource on Twitter and Facebook would be to stay off these platforms. Not so familiar with Instagram.

      1. +1 to all the social media platforms. Avoiding them/staying does wonders for mental health.

    3. I like the feed #boringselfcare on Instagram. It really highlights how the little things can make a big difference in how we feel.

    4. I’m about to leave this site for my mental health. Not only is it feeling like an increasingly rude place where commenters love to pile on the second someone posts a naive comment, it’s fueling general social media issues – compulsion to check often, scrolling mindlessly instead of doing something productive, etc. Maybe that would help you as well?

      2. I mean, comments load really slowly. I don’t think people are piling on. I think when they comment, there are no other comments.

      3. Well, this line describes me perfectly and I hate it. Ugh.

        it’s fueling general social media issues – compulsion to check often, scrolling mindlessly instead of doing something productive, etc

      4. So the important thing to ask yourself with any kind of social media/internet use is “does this add value to my life that outweighs the downside?”

        The answer, increasingly, for me with this site is no. And I’ve posted and commented here under a stable username for essentially the entire lifespan of the site. I’ve been through several waves of the “are commenters here worse than they used to be?” and before I always said no. I said no even when there was someone who clearly disliked me specifically and went to the trouble of figuring out who I was IRL so that her responses could be particularly nasty in a personal way. But recently? Yes. This isn’t a place where I feel like I’ll get useful feedback to questions or much in the way of compassion. That saddens me, but there’s a lifecycle to digital communities and I think this one is in the decline-and-fall phase.

        1. That’s where I fall as well. I’m glad for some of the good tips I’ve gotten over the years and some of the interesting conversations we’ve had, but the benefits no longer outweigh the downsides. It’s really jarring to post something ordinary and get “omg you’re so insane” in response and it’s just not worth the time to ask for recommendations on something specific and get 1-2 responses. Without the ability to get substantive advice or have consistently civil conversations (and since I don’t read the original posts), I’m just finding that the social media habit/addiction factor is the only thing keeping me here and that’s not good.

        2. You’re probably one of the few people in a position to explain that to Kat. Yes, digital communities have their cycles, but there are some obvious ways that this one could be fixed: require usernames to cut down on the tr-lling, ability to flag posts, an updated comments policy, etc.

          1. Not on the OP’s issue, but on this specific tip – if regular user names start being required, I’m out. I’m a regular commenter, have been for years, and I used to have a user name. Then someone figured out who I am IRL. It was super weird and stalkery. I won’t make that mistake again.

          2. How is it weird and stalkery? I’ve recognized two long time commenters from this s1te – one of them I followed her public bl0g, the other was a professional acquaintance. Details they shared here matched up with details they shared on their bl0g or details I’d learned through real life conversations. I didn’t do any unearthing of private information or even g00gling/searching for public social media pages. You can’t help it when you realize someone’s identity because you know them or follow them on another platform.

          3. You’re going to have to trust me when I say what happened to me personally was weird and stalkery. I’m not going to go into details.

    5. Captain Awkward is good, if a little too touchy-feely for my taste.

      Ask a Manager isn’t a mental health site but she touches on a lot of working-person stressors.

      Dear Sugar is long gone but her archives are pure gold. Warning: have Kleenex close at hand. https://therumpus.net/sections/dear-sugar/

      And I agree, Facebook and Insta and so on are probably contraindicated.

  15. Hey pals! I’d love to do a little survey on ADR here, especially nonbinding mediation, especially especially in the employment context. Is it worth doing? Am I cynical for thinking “if it’s nonbinding, why bother?”

    Can I get the thoughts of any of you wise professionals who’ve maybe been through it before?

    1. You mean for a case in which you personally are a party, or in which your employer is a party?

      No experience with mediation in the employment context, but I did a research project involving mediators in family law. Based upon what I learned, I would never ever ever use a mediator. The mediators I interviewed saw it as their job to push both parties to make concessions they didn’t necessarily want to make. They viewed it as inappropriate to weigh in on what a judge might do in the case, or to suggest solutions that hadn’t occurred to the parties but that might benefit them both, which would be the very things I’d want a mediator to do. They also tended to be uneducated and unskilled, although YMMV there in an employment law context.

      1. Huh, thank you, that does support my assumptions.

        This is a case where my employer would be a party.

      2. I think mediation is only as good as your mediator but yes, generally, what anon above said. If it is a situation you see as potentially litigious (not just a casual “lets have a chat with HR and see what we can do here”), which it sounds like it might be, I would proceed with caution and lawyer up.

        1. Oh, yeah I guess the background matters: we’ve been sued, then had the case kicked because there’s an arbitration agreement in place, so now the question is just whether we do mediation in an attempt to resolve it before fledged arbitration, but I am leaning toward no. And full disclosure I am not the decider on this, but I wanted to hear from others who’d been through it to see if my instincts made sense.

          1. Wouldn’t that decision depend mostly on what you thought the result of arbitration would be?

          2. You shouldn’t be weighing in. You clearly don’t understand the process. Which is fine! And why you have a lawyer.

          3. Yup 11:25 there are a lot of factors at play! My only experience with arbitration is in a big corp vs. corp setting, and my only experience with mediation was a failed attempt prior to a big corp vs. corp litigation, so I’m just trying to get my mind around what an employment mediation even looks like.

          4. Yeah, 11:36, I know I’m not a decider, but having a backchannel of awesome women who know more than me might prevent me from saying/doing something foolish! I’d rather say something uninformed here than in a meeting w my boss! :)

      3. Yes, mediators are supposed to point out weaknesses to both sides to meet in the middle. There’s a saying that a successful mediation is one where both sides leave unhappy (but the matter resolved).

        I would 100% do a mediation before arbitration. Mediation is typically 1 day, at most, and costs a few thousand dollars, and you might resolve the case. Arbitration, on the other hand, is tens of thousands of dollars, if not more. We just had an arbitration go on for 11(!!!) weeks! And it is the same as a full-fledged trial with all the witnesses, exhibits, etc. but you pay the panel of arbitrators $500+/hr each. It’s insane. Do a mediation first. If nothing else, you might get some glimpses into the other side’s position(s).

        2. I totally agree. I am a civil litigator and several jurisdictions have mandatory mediation requirements before a matter can be set for trial. The vast majority will settle and, at the very least, both sides come away with a better understanding of the other wise’s position and approach and a sense of what an objective third party thinks of both positions. Totally worth the relatively minor cost.

    2. I practice employment law for a living and regularly mediate my cases to a successful resolution. It’s definitely worth doing, but be sure to get a skilled mediator. Where I live, the ones offered for free by government agencies are not as good as those in private practice.

      1. Thank you for this insight! I’m really curious to hear the experiences of our outside counsel too — he presented it totally neutrally, like not “I guess we could do this if you want” or “here’s a really great option” but just “this is an option, let me know what you think” so I’m looking forward to hearing what he has to say.

    3. It depends. My state requires mediation to get to trial. The mediators are great about giving feedback about what they expect to happen in a trial. Both parties are pushed to get off their respective numbers but that’s the only way anything settles. If it settles at the mediation, that settlement is binding. The mediator doesn’t come up with a number on his/her own. That sounds more like non-binding arbitration. Mediation helps the two of you reach a resolution. I’m always in favor of trying.

    4. You should be talking to your lawyer about this. I use it in nearly all my employment cases (management side attorney). There’s often a settlement, it gives an individual plaintiff an opportunity to tell their story which is often important to them, and I don’t see much downside risk.

      1. +1 to all of this. Especially – there is no down side to you to do a mediation. The cost/time of a mediation is a drop in the bucket compared to what you’ll go through with an arbitration. Try to get it resolved.

      2. Oh yeah, of course! Basically I was thinking of posting on this board like calling up a few friends to be like “uh what’s the deal with mediation in this context?” (but I don’t have IRL friends who’ve done it) so I can have some idea of the dynamics and what to expect and consider while the Actual Deciders are deciding.

    5. I’m an in-house employment lawyer. A few questions you should consider:
      Do you have enough information to determine what the legal risk is in the case?
      Is the complainant a current employee?
      Do you have an initial demand from the complaint?

      If the answer to either 1 or 2 is yes, I’d recommend soliciting an initial demand from the complainant. That should give you an idea as to whether you will be able to settle at mediation (If the complainant wants 1 billion dollars, but your attorney says this is a 20k case, there’s no point in going to mediation).

    6. You’ve gotten good advice above. My perspective – I work with Employment Practices insurance, so the insurance that is often funding the settlement/defense costs. Vast majority of cases I see settle out in or as a result of mediation. Insurance company preference because lower defense costs.

    7. Sounds like you are looking at a third party doing the mediating. My employer has an internal mediator, whose job it seems to be to work out the concessions that will keep employees from suing for harassment or discrimination.

  16. I found this series to be a long read/listen but well worth it for examining many of the issues that came up last week in the thread about education and schooling. I’m really familiar with the county profiled and there is a lot more going on than just the school system. The generational poverty and racism is deeply entrenched. Outsiders may occasionally move to or live in the community but don’t ever really become accepted as part of the community. Anyway, it’s food for thought.
    https://chartered.wlrn.org/

  17. Political question: for bodies the like FEC, NLRB, FLRA, etc that have limits on members from the same political party, how do they determine what political party you belong to? The FEC’s website says “no more than three Commissioners can represent the same political party” and the law seems to say “affiliated with,” but I can update my party affiliation on my voter registration in under five minutes. Is there a stronger version of party membership I don’t know about, or what?

    1. If someone is being appointed, their party affiliation is known. Their activity and intensity of that activity is known. Their philosophies – not usually as easy to change as party affiliation, but possible – is known. I’m going to trust the system on this kind of thing

        2. This isn’t resolved via a legal process. It relies on the Senate confirmation process ensuring that everyone is playing by the rules, not trying to pass themselves off as a member of the opposite party. At least with the FEC, it seems pretty clear that Senate Democrats would suggest any new Commissions from their party to the President, and they are only going to suggest democrats. I think that is the same for all of these positions.

          1. So if one party had enough votes to confirm six members from their own party, would there be any recourse?

          2. If one party had enough votes to confirm six members who were truly from their party but three were saying that they were from the other party? no, I don’t think there is any legal recourse (of course, the other party would start doing the same thing as soon as they regained power). I really can’t image a Court weighing in and ruling that a person was not with the party the person claimed to be. However, finding people who are willing to lie and say they associate with the opposite party would be hard to do. Most of these commissioners have higher/longer term goals, and such a lie wouldn’t help.

    2. Don’t those Commissioners generally require Senate confirmation? Even a Senate aligned with the President may not vote to confirm if it’s obviously a ruse.

    3. Once its update online, it goes I to the publicly available voter file and the parties, as well as anyone with access to the voter file, will know.
      I’m a current mayoral candidate in my small city. We paid $900 for access to the voter file. It gives us periodic updates about party affiliation, name change, phone number, address, voting history, etc.

  18. How often do you change up your workouts? Do you go through cycles where you do Beachbody for a while and then NROWL and then CrossFit for a while? Or have you found one thing and stuck with it? Signed: Struggling.

    1. Whenever I get bored or find something that’s more fun. I can’t motivate myself to work out unless it’s fun. I am currently enjoying the Les Mills classes (GRIT + Bodypump), yoga, and ballet.

      If I were a competitive athlete, I’d do some sort of periodization to maximize performance.

    2. Yeah, over the past 15 years, my workout habits have gone through several phases. Some of it is a function of what workouts have been easily available to me (like what classes are offered in my office building gym) and some of it is what my body is feeling at the time. First was running and pilates. Then running and bikram yoga. Then a Crossfit phase until I got injured. Running doesn’t really work for my body anymore, I found Crossfit to be too much for me, and bikram yoga is too time-consuming and dehydrating. After that I did ClassPass for a while (mostly spinning, pilates, yoga). Then I wanted to work some strength training back into my routine, so I’ve been doing a combo of a personal trainer and Strong Curves (the Bret Contreras lower body workout), with some spin classes, yoga, and lots of walking.

  19. Related but separate question: how do you know when it’s time to quit WW and try something else?

    1. When you feel like it’s time. WW is just a tool. If it isn’t working for you, move on.

    2. I just quit two days ago. I was on the fence and then they announced Kurbo and after some serious thought, I’m done. I’m a little sad – it’s really worked well for me over the years but I’d been a bad member the last 3 months, completely off plan given some major family stuff going on. I had planned on recommitting at Labor Day but Kurbo completely did me in. WW is just a tool, to echo the above, and increasingly I’m realizing I need to actually deal with my relationship with food, vs use a tool like WW, and focus on not passing on my bad habits to my 16 month old daughter. She deserves better.

      (and you can always go back – they don’t erase your account.)

    3. I left WW because it became overly restrictive. A few years ago, WW reduced the number of daily points and increased the number of zero-point foods. After that program update, I was only getting 850-900 calories per day unless I used weekly points to bring myself up to balanced meals–but I liked (and had lost a lot of weight) using weekly points for splurges. I found my eating pattern becoming pretty disordered and overly restrictive just trying to get enough calories to focus on work and stay within the program. And then I quit.

      1. I had that same experience. Which was too bad, because 10 years earlier (pre-kids), WW was very effective for me. It wasn’t the same program when I rejoined (post-kids). I also felt like my mindset was becoming very disordered, and that scared me a lot.

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