Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Kristen Pleated Skirt

624 Comments

1. Anyone tried Pashko brand clothes? Have only seen via FB ads but they look like a perfect WFH solution. Step up from my athleisure but super comfy I am hoping. Please LMK if you’ve tried.

   1. I have been trying! I’ve been drawn in by the ads but everything I want to order is out of stock in my size.

2. Anyone got advice on how to paint a bedroom? I’m looking at a light blue color (current top candidate is SW 6794) over white. I am very much an amateur, and have never painted anything other than paper before in my life. Thanks!

   1. Make sure you spend time prepping. Walls should be clean, use a primer, and use good painter’s tape. It’s a pain to prep but it makes all the difference. Don’t take shortcuts.

      1. +1 – although a lot of paints have primer built in.

         I also recommend testing out the color before committing to that color. You can get samples through sampilize, paint a small section directly onto the wall, etc. Take it from someone whose lavender paint color ended up the color of Pepto Bismol!

         1. Yes. Assume you will spend $10-$20 in sample paint.

         2. I’d say paint a swatch on multiple walls as look at various times a day. Light does fun things!

      2. Yeah, successful painting means you spend about 3x the amount of time prepping as you do applying paint. As a veteran of many long-weekend painting projects, here are my tips:

         – Buy way more tape than you need and my experience has always been that the wider tape does a better job containing the paint. Don’t skimp on tape to afford a more expensive paint. If you can’t afford to buy the wide tape, and lots of rolls of it, you can’t afford the project. Great, expensive paint will look like crap if the tape job is bad.
         – Don’t think you can “go around” light fixtures or electrical plates or whatever. Save yourself time and frustration and just remove them at the beginning.
         – As you tape, use an old plastic membership or credit card to press down on the tape edge to seal it to the wall – that makes a lot of difference.
         – Also, think about the texture of your walls – if they are heavily textured you need a different type of roller that will get the paint into the small crevices. They sell multiple types of rollers at hardware stores.
         – Definitely clean the walls ahead of time (allowing time for the walls to dry if necessary) and if you are painting a kitchen, expect that cleaning the walls may take an entire day and you may need specialty products to get grease off the walls (it accumulates in places you wouldn’t expect).
         – Paint finish is important and people don’t think about it enough. Flat wall color looks great but it is a pain to clean when you inevitably get handprints or other marks on it. There are different types of “eggshell” finishes. Gloss finishes are easy to clean but can look weird outside of a kitchen or bathroom. They make specialty “kitchen and bath” finish paints now that resist mildew and grease accumulation. It’s worth going to the hardware store and looking at different paints and also getting samples (they cost a few bucks each) in different finishes to find the one that gives the effect you want and will be easy to live with.
         – Buy more paint than you think you need (even the computerized color matching they can do at Lowe’s and Home Depot doesn’t always result in the *exact* same color if you have to buy more because you run out, especially if you have to get a different finish) and more rollers than you think you need also.
         – If you are covering another color already on the wall, do a primer coat. Even if the paint says it has primer in it, our experience was that the existing wall color showed through. We had to stop painting one time and run to the hardware store for more paint in the middle of the job because the “primer + paint” paint didn’t cover the existing wall color.
         – If you are doing primer and then paint or more than one color, buy plastic liners for the metal paint trays.
         – If you don’t have a stepladder you probably need one, it’s hard to get the ceiling and upper walls with just an extensible pole with a roller on it. It’s also a good idea to get a few paintbrushes in different sizes for detail areas. If you don’t have a permanent need for a ladder, you can usually rent or borrow one.

         We did a ton of painting in our old house and as a result I have no appetite for it any more, but it can be a fun way to change the whole look of a room in a weekend. Be aware that if you own the place you’re in and will sell it at some point, the “every room a different color” look becomes a real problem for some buyers. When we were house-shopping we saw several houses like that and the thought of either negotiating the seller into repainting or repainting ourselves was a turnoff. (In our area repainting an entire house interior costs between $5k and $10k depending on the size of the house and how much detail work there is.) We bought a house where the sellers proactively repainted all rooms the same color and it was a definite selling point.

         1. All of this!

            I just bought a house and my partner and I have spent five days washing walls, patching and sanding and are just starting to prime. I recommend buying TSP (trisodium phosphate) and using it to wash the walls. It’s a de-greaser and will help your primer stick better. It turned the ceiling in our house from nicotine-and-grease beige to its original off white.

            Every time we paint, I swear we’re going to hire someone to do it next time.

         2. On ‘every room a different colour’ if they’re pretty tasteful it can be a real selling point. When I was home hunting 18 months ago I fell in love with my apartment partly because of the colours- I have a ‘millennial pink’ living room and an amazing dark blue entryway. They definitely made me offer a bit more cash for the place because I knew I didn’t need to do anything cosmetically to it.

      3. +2. Prep is essential. You can use the edge of a credit card to get a good seal on the tape.
         As with almost everything home-related – check it out on youtube.
         Take your time and make sure you have rags available to wipe up any drips or smears.

      4. A primer is only necessary if you are painting over like a black wall or unpainted drywall.

   2. I almost never use primer, most paints these days come with enough of a primer in them I find. Only time I find primer helpful is if it has been a really long time since the wall has been painted or wall feels really dry/powdery or a significant color difference (dark to light). Look up youtube tutorials on how to use brush-rollers (how to paint a room by buzzfeed is pretty good overall overview). That technique is the most important part, it’s sort of a W motion. Don’t put too much paint on the roller/brush or you will get drips and they are a nightmare. Better to have too little than too much. Be careful around ceilings (don’t roll up too fast, or you will get paint there). Ceilings are harder to fix than baseboards. If you use painters tape, wait until paint is dry before you pull it up. Use drop cloths on your floor. Clean brushes/rollers immediately after you are finished.

   3. I’m a big fan of painting a piece of posterboard, 24×36-ish, and moving it around the room during times of the day to check for color shifts. You can also bend/score it for wrapping around a corner. Tape it in place with painter’s tape and look at it for several days. The paint on the window wall may appear different than the one across from it.

      Look at the paint chip at the top or the bottom of the range; this may clue you in on the undertones of the medium chip. In other words, what may appear yellow may actually be a very light green at the top of the chip.

      Also, get the edge lock painter’s tape so the paint doesn’t bleed under it. Paint with “W” strokes and watch videos. Good luck!

   4. I got some paint wipes from the hardware store that I found very useful for cleaning up drips when I painted a hallway with tons of trim.

   5. I know you asked for advice, and you’re getting very detailed advice from others below. But, also… it’s just paint! Mistakes can be fixed. It won’t be perfect your first time around and that’s a-ok.

      1. Also, once you get experienced enough, you won’t necessarily need to tape if you have a steady hand, the right brush, and you go slow. I find painter’s tape causes me issues, and not using it saves a ton of time and hassle.

      2. I agree with “mistakes can be fixed” but as someone who has spent a LOT of time fixing paint jobs…it’s much easier and more satisfying to do it right the first time; then we get to enjoy it rather than worrying about what has to get fixed.

   6. I’ve painted almost every room in my house over the last 7 or 8 years. Some rooms more than once… The difference between cheap and expensive paint is incredible. Expensive paint is a dream to paint with. The coverage is amazing– so much better than cheap paint.

      Also, if you think you might do more painting, something that is really helpful in the long term is starting a house binder. I have a three ring binder with a sheet of notebook paper in a plastic sleeve that has the paint chips for all the rooms I’ve painted, along with the trim color. It can be handy to take out of the house if you’re going to pick out a rug or something. I took the paint chip with our kitchen wall color with me to the granite place when we picked counter material.

      As far as prep work…. I have never taped anything. I have a steady hand and keep a wet paper towel with me at all times to immediately wipe up mistakes. There are these things you can get to put paint in that are like cups with handles on them that are super useful for when you’re up on a ladder doing the trim work at the top of the wall. They have a magnet on them that you can attach your paint brush to if you need to wipe something up with your paper towel.

   7. I want to push back on the some of the advice as someone super experienced with painting interiors. My advice assumes you have basic drywall walls.

      You don’t need to prime white walls. Primer is needed for dramatic color changes and walls in poor condition.

      You also don’t need tape. Tape is a bigger mess and bigger expense and SUCH a time suck. Buy an angled brush – I recommend the Wooster Shortcut Brush – and do all your cutting in with that. Practice on open wall and learn to get a hang of it. I highly recommend getting a paint cup – the HANDy Paint Cup with liners is my seriously preferred. The Wooster stubby brush and the HANDy paint cup make cutting in SO easy.

      For your roller, read the packages of rollers – they come in different naps (pile thickness) depending on the surface you’re painting. Buy the right nap for drywall (they make them for stucco, wood, etc, etc.) Any paint pan and liners will do.

      When you roll, roll in a W shape.

      Any old sheet or tablecloth can do for a dropcloth – you don’t need to buy something special.

      Nervous to start? Start on a section of wall that’ll be behind a big piece of furniture.

      You don’t need to pay SW money for a gallon of paint. Take the paint chip to HD or Lowe’s and have them match the color chip. My favorite paint is Behr Premium Plus Ultra at HD – it has a primer built-in and covers in one coat – I even used it for a deep, dark green over white and it covered in one coat.

      You don’t need to do two coats if you choose the right paint and watch your Ws and make sure to load your roller (with paint) as you go.

      HD sells test pots of paint. SW 6794 has a lot of personality for a bedroom – it’s more of a Caribbean blue than soothing shades normally used in bedrooms. Definitely get a test pot of that color. Either paint your walls or buy a sheet of poster board and move it around the room to see how you like the color.

      For a bedroom, unless you live in a McMansion and your bedroom’s big enough for cartwheels, you only need a gallon of paint.

      Keep a damp rag near you as you paint to wipe up any drips as they happen.

      99% chance you don’t need to wash your bedroom walls. Kitchen walls? Sure. Hallways if you have little kids or slobbery pets? Probably. But I’ve never washed a wall other than a kitchen wall before painting.

   8. I just want to add my perspective. Now that most paints are latex, you actually want to peel away the edging tape while the paint is still wet.

      If the paint is dry, you run the risk of the rubbery paint on the tape pulling up the adjacent rubbery paint you wanted to remain on your wall. ASK ME HOW I KNOW THIS

   9. You have gotten lots of great advice about technique etc. Some other stuff:

      For the colour itself – get a colour that also looks good with your skin, not just your walls! (Whatever colour tweak that would look like in your chosen colour.) It’s nice to not look washed out in the bedroom. :)

      For the paint job – if you live in a flat, this is a good time to consider that your neighbours may be allergic/asthmatic/on-the-virus, and may get serious problems if you don’t ventilate in a proper way when painting. If you know smells carry throughout the building, or you have common ducts/vents with your neighbours, or you know smells carry by the windows, make sure to protect them from your paint fumes. (One of my old neighbours painted the whole flat, closed all the windows and put the heat on max “to dry the paint”, and then sent all the fumes to the floors above through old internal airing ducts… )

      Protect yourself as well, and spend the extra money to get allergy friendly paint. Better for everyone. :)

3. Any other ladies here thinking about ditching their hair dye and embracing their grays even after the salons open? Any advice on growing out the grays gracefully? I’ve been dying my hair for 16 years, medium brown. My natural hair color is mostly white but some gray. It’s fairly labor intensive to keep up with the roots because it’s super obvious when my hair needs to be dyed. I’ve taken advantage of the current situation as an excuse to not dye my hair for two months. I may wind up dying it again in the future but now just want to take a break from it.

   1. Nope. I’m thinking about flying to a southern state for highlights.

      1. Same girl same!

      2. +1

      3. Me too!

      4. I seriously hope you’re joking. No one gives a rat’s ass about your hair, but a lot of people care about preventing further outbreaks of the virus. If you were my friend and I found out you’d done this, you’d drop like a stone in my estimation.

         1. Where I live, I can drive 10 miles and still be in my city. Or drive 10 miles in a different direction and be in a state that allows for hair cutting next week. If you’d drop me over this, that’s fine. But I think a lot of people are in a position where they have choices and TBH I expect that people will act as they deem rationale for them. Not everyone is at a known high risk of bad complications.

            1. Right, and so what if you infect somebody who is?

            2. Seriously, Senior Attorney? Usually you’re one of the more rational folks here, but jokes about flying to a Southern state aside, if you’d drop someone as a friend for availing themselves of a service nearby that is legally open, then I wouldn’t want to be your friend in the first place. Not everyone has piles of money – someone need to support these small businesses.

            3. I didn’t say I’d drop her as a friend. I was really commenting on the assumption that the only person one needs to worry about is oneself. The last sentence of the 11:31 post is the part I have a problem with.

            4. I mean, I will be sending my kids back to camp and going back to the office. In the meantime, we’ve been at home for 2 months, so no new germs incoming from us at the moment. I think it would be better to go in wave one than a month from now.

            5. Same, Senior Attorney, same. I had covid, a so-called mild case that didn’t require hospitalization. And it suuuuuuucked. I’ve been recovering for 5 weeks already and still can’t breathe properly due to a pulmonary embolism. The headache finally broke yesterday, and every week was a new bad symptom. Anyone who thinks mild cases are like the flu haven’t talked to enough people who have had mild cases.

      5. Same!

      6. I’m thinking about sticking my long hair out of a mail slot to get my balayage maintained. Can pedicures be done that way?

         1. I’m loving this image.

   2. I have blond hair, which has a few grey hair’s in them, but as I get more, I will get treatments so that I can retain my current look. For now, I just want to get a blowout, as my hair looks very flat with me doing the washing and conditioning at home.

      Is anyone in the HIVE in NYC interested in having a socially responsible get together in Central Park? I recomend we meet when we know it will be sunny, either near the reservoir for upper east sider’s like me, or down in Strawberry Field for the West Sider’s. We can wear distinctive baseball caps (I suggest RED) so we can find each other. I could bring a boxed lunch from Citerella, and others can do the same. Then we can sit 6 feet apart and talk with others in PERSON! It would surely beat Zoom or Webex or Facetime or whatever other app peeople are using. We could restrict admittence to women, as men will want to nose around, but we do NOT want to get the virus from them.

      How about it? Is any one up for this? We can figure it out, as loyal Corporetes! YAY!!!

   3. I’m thinking about it. This is the first time in many years that I’ve gotten a good look at my natural color. I’m not sure I’ll go 100% gray, but I’m thinking about transitioning to a different base color when I do get back into a salon.

      My mom, at age 77, has decided to use her salon-hiatus to stop coloring and finally go fully gray!

   4. Same. Also brown, dying for 12+ years, somewhat shocked at how white it is. I will probably go back to brown—women in finance don’t have white hair and I have to keep up with the younger set. Haven’t decided, but definitely enjoying the break.

      1. Let’s be the women in finance who have white hair! They aren’t there because no one does it.

      2. I dream of looking like Christine Lagarde.

   5. I let mine grow out for the past two months, partially due to quarantine and partially due to a fresh cartilage piercing. I was NOT happy. The issue for me was that the gray is so different in texture from the brown, so I had no way to treat and style the wiry grays without making the soft fine brown hairs limp and squishy. So, boxed dye it is.

      Lesson learned: I will stop coloring once my hair is fully transitioned to solid gray (or white), but going natural for the salt-and-pepper in-between time is not going to work.

      1. I hate the different textures, too. Prior to lock-down, I got the grays on my crown keratin-treated to help smoothe them down. Now — it’s like a cotton ball / bad perm / really not nice looking. I know that using relaxer would ruin my hair. I am thinking — brush on a perm solution and try to straighten that area and wash it out quickly? Not sure what the answer is. Right now it’s trying to slick it down with vaseline and just using a lot of conditioner there. FWIW, I have a stripe but not otherwise a lot of gray but very dark fine hair otherwise.

   6. I am 6 months in to going gray–I am loving my gray hair! And I love not spending all the time and money at the salon, not that I could get there anyway. I joined a Facebook group for gray hair, Gray and Proud, though there are others. On FB I learned of my favorite product, Overtone, that is only on line, and is not a permanent hair color. It is a conditioner type product. My salon hair color was a light brown that got brassy after a while. This product tones down the brassiness, and blends the old and the new so there is less of a line of demarcation. I use the platinum vibrant color. Other useful products are spray on root touch ups, and a blue or purple shampoo and conditioner to make the grays bright and tone down the old color. I have kept my hair a bit shorter so as to have a lower ratio of gray hair to old hair, I have not gone the pixie route as many women do. I find that I want to have “salon” hair and wear lipstick more often now, as it is a good off set to my gray hair. Looking disheveled does not work as well with gray hair as with my colored hair-YMMV. Go for it! You can always color your hair.

      1. I am doing this as well. The grey came in a really pretty shade of silver, not the mousey color I was expecting. I have been at the grow out long enough that I can hide the colored hair in a bun; when I can I will do a bob. If I get tired of it, it will be virgin hair and I can do a different base.

      2. grombre on instagram is also good for this inspiration, if you are looking for more community.

   7. Nope! I actually just ordered Madison Reed yesterday – I’ve used it before and I’ve been happy enough with the results for $20 or whatever.

   8. Yeah, I was thinking about it. I’d been following all the grombre Insta accounts and was feeling inspired to ditch the dye. Let it fly. Until I saw my mom for the first time in 2 months and realized that I have grayer roots than she does. :( I’m 39 and she’s 64, for reference. I know it’s vain, but I’m feeling very down about this. Not only have I been heavier than my mom since age 12, now I’m grayer than her, too? Why didn’t I get any of HER genes? She is petite and young-looking, just like her mom and grandmother. In body type and hair, I am strongly taking after my dad’s side of the family.

      1. I am 42 and like your mom and my little daughter is turning out to have her dad’s side genes and I think this is our future. Believe me I would gladly give up my skin, hair, weight and genes to her if I could!

         1. OK, this actually makes me feel a lot worse. Sorry we’re so defective in your eyes.

   9. Seeing my white roots has increased my opposition to letting it grow in. I am 43. That is too young to have white hair. After a less than satisfactory experience with boxed dye from the grocery store, I placed an order with Madison Reed for a formula for resistant grays.

   10. I made the decision about ten years ago to stop coloring after having done it for a few years. I have never regretted it. My hair has some gray, with a bit of a streak in front and is very healthy (says my hair stylist). I get a fair share of compliments from other women along the lines of ‘gee, your hair looks great- wish I could let mine grow out.” I like not having the root issues, constant touch ups, dryness, etc. A good, up to date cut has been key to not looking frumpy. If you’re considering going gray, I say Go for it! Do some highlights to lessen the growing out phase. If you don’t like it, you can always go back.

       1. I also stopped dyeing my hair within the past year. I was tired of constantly scheduling and paying for it, and this was just at-home dyeing for short hair! Above all, I realized I don’t want to worry about my hair color looking unnatural. I figured if it’s actually natural, I’ll never have that concern. I use lots of moisturizer to tame the coarseness.

   11. IMO the way to go gray gracefully is *before* you have a lot of gray — otherwise it takes a lot of work with highlights, etc., or the line of demarcation is just so obvious. That said, from what I’ve seen in FB groups and the like, if you do go cold turkey, the first 3-4 months are the hardest. After that the grey portion is long enough that it looks intentional. So you’re almost done with the hard part! For anyone who wants a gentler approach, semipermanent color helps a lot. It fades, so the line of demarcation is much softer. When I finally decided I was done with coloring, I did semi for about a year, then just stopped — it wasn’t a seamless transition but it wasn’t too bad. The dyed parts are all gone now, and my hair is a mixture of dark ash brown, steel grey, and silver. I keep it cut and use a ton of conditioner, so it looks healthy and shiny — that offsets any frump factor.

       1. Yes — I went gray early out of vanity, not in spite of it. I want to say that the one character I didn’t see in OITNB was the woman with dyed hair with obvious grow-out. I saw her IRL not able to make bail and decided that I didn’t ever want to have that AND bad hair at the same time. Perhaps not the most coherent thinking, but am grateful for it now.

          1. I love this.

   12. im totally embracing graying naturally! I have black hair so the whites are pretty obvious and they’ve really started poppin (early 30s). but I feel like I’d rather just get nice hair cuts and style my hair a little and let the grays come in. I’m spending all that money I’d spend otherwise on vitamin c serum and my skin has been looking pretty good so I’m more into that

       1. Same here. I’m in my mid 30s, I have dark brown hair and whites coming in mostly at the temples. I have dyed my hair in the past, just for fun, and just cannot be bothered with that level of expense or upkeep.

   13. Do it! I wish more women had the confidence to do so. White hair or all gray can be SO stylish! It’s all in how you wear it! I have a friend who’s ~45 and she wears her gray hair in a bob. She always pairs it with a bold lip. It’s just a really great look.

       1. On of my best friends has been going gray since she was 18 or so. At 35 she has mostly white, long, curly, stunning hair.

4. If you’re exempt, working a typical office job, where people aren’t watching the clocks or
   excessively butts-in-seats but typical work hours are 9:30-6:30 and definitively coronavirus WFH for the next 1.5 months at least:

   Do you think it’s alright to go for a run at 5, while it’s still somewhat bright and warm, and then come back to work?

   I’m stuck working from home, I’d like to get some things out of it.

   1. Yes, but I think you could also just run it by your manager for peace of mind.

      1. I would absolutely not tell my manager. I promise you people who are WFH are doing all sorts of things to break up the day and they are not all asking permission before doing it. Just do it until it becomes a problem. I wouldn’t start out by doing it every day. I would block my calendar from 5-6 three days a week and see if it feels like you’re missing anything. If you’re not, you can start doing it every day.

         1. +1 Definitely do not tell your manager.
            I promise you no bro in your office is telling your manager their work out schedule.
            Also, if I was a manager, I think I’d be like, “um, okay, and….”?

            1. I promise you that your manager does not want to be bothered with this and FURTHER your manager would question your judgment / lack of ability to make minor decisions and adjust if the consequences are bad on your own without needing to pass the buck to him/her. It has to be one of the most irritating things of my life: the inability of adults to make small decisions (so I don’t trust them with larger ones).

         2. This x 1 million. There is such a thing as too much transparency that just buys you problems. People will proactively say things about their schedule or activities just to feel like they’re covering the bases and all it does is create a bunch of questions and hassle over something that’s honestly NBD. OP, if you’re getting your work done, I don’t think your boss has much room to say anything. Do what you feel like you need to do.

            1. +1. I worked with a lady a while back who could not ask for anything (to leave to pick up a sick kid, to take sick time herself, to go get herself some lunch) without giving a 20-minute backstory of why she needed to leave. The day she went on and on about feeling nauseated herself before leaving to get lunch, I finally said, “Boss, I bet you anything she’ll text you later and say she’s too sick to come back to work,” and sure enough she did. We didn’t trust her elaborate explanations one whit after that.

         3. +1. I would no more mention this, than I would mention that I was going to take a 15 minute break to fold some laundry, or check in with my kids doing their homework, or walk the dog and get the mail.

      2. Do not tell your manager. I PROMISE you men are doing this without telling their managers.

      3. As a manager, don’t tell your manager. How long of a run are you talking, time-wise? I honestly don’t think you owe an explanation after 5 even if you miss a call, just a “Sorry I missed your call! Did everything go OK at the virtual board meeting this afternoon?” is fine.
         I disagree with people saying to do it during the day. I’m much more irritated when someone mysteriously disappears during the day than during the evening. After 5, I assume people have dinner to take care of, a family member that called, are taking a moment to change a load of laundry, etc. If someone disappears on me in the middle of the day I’m going to be a bit irritated. Especially if I call and leave a voicemail and they TEXT me “sorry i missed your call, (answer to question).” an hour and a half later. I called instead of texting for a reason!

   2. I mean, yes? That’s kind of the point of WFH flexibility. I wouldn’t decline a meeting request to go on a run, but I also wouldn’t feel bad about blocking that time on my calendar for a run.

   3. Of course

   4. For sure. But I do work outs during 2 “lunches” on work days in normal life even though we are also somewhat butts in seats, so that’s always kinda my attitude.
      In quarantine I shifted doing mine to be in the 2-4 time range as that is when my backyard is sunny. : )

   5. Can you go at lunch time? That’s what I do.

   6. That would be 100% fine in my suddenly-virtual office.

   7. Yep, 1000% fine. Everyone does this. Just set your chat software status to “away” or “back at 2” or whatever without additional explanation.

   8. Just do it during the day, don’t wait for 5. That’s what other people are doing. And no need to tell your boss.

   9. Sure! And I agree with the others you don’t need to tell your manager. People in all sorts of jobs mute slack and email for various reasons during the day, so unless your runs are super long, I don’t think anyone would think much of a minor delay at that time of day.

   10. Partners in my firm are talking on our team Zoom calls about how much they love being able to get in a workout between calls/emails when the mood strikes them. So yeah, do it. That said, partners in my firm often went for a run or to the building gym during the work day anyways back when we were in the office.

5. I find myself gravitating towards leggings or wide leg jersey pants and slouchy oversized sweatshirts. I dress to the nines every day at the office- I usually even coordinate my athletic wear – but WFH is just a mass of mismatched flowy fabrics. I checked yesterday and thankfully clothes still fit… I need to report back to work June 1. Should I start showering in the morning and being ready by my normal pre commute time? I feel like a kid who is starting school again. I’m not even sure if I have a real question. Bracing for a rough transition back.

   1. I am in full Dude mode from The Big Lebowski (is it me or is that a really great movie for the first half and then WTF random other movie transplanted onto it for the second half). At any rate, The Dude Abides. But, apparently, not in the office.

      However: https://www.pendleton-usa.com/product/womens-long-westerley-cardigan-48830.html

      1. lol at full dude mode!

      2. No, it is a great movie start to finish. If you think otherwise, well, that’s just like your opinion, man.

      3. I’ve been drinking white Russians like The Dude.

         1. Careful, man, there’s a beverage here!!

      4. My dad un-ironically owned and wore the Lebowski sweater for many years when I was growing up :-)

   2. When I started coming back to the office, I started up again cold-turkey. That said, it would be better to ease back in IMO.

      Separately, can you share your favorite wide-leg jersey pants? I love that style and feel for home, but haven’t been motivated enough to track some down. TIA!

      1. I like Athleta or a pair I got from Targets sleep section – more of a knit than a jersey but less expensive!

      2. The Soma Cool Nights full length pants are my favorite. Super soft jersey that’s not too hot.

   3. Maybe it’s a good time to do the minimum (whatever that looks like for you) & enjoy the extra freedom.

6. has anyone done one of those foot peels at home? any recs?

   1. Oh yeah it’s super fun. Buy whatever they’re all basically the same. Soak in water an hour before you put it in. Enjoy peeling your feet skin for a week. I may order one now myself.

   2. Yes! My best advice is to use Babyfoot. I haven’t found any of the knockoffs to work as well. And maybe do it after a bath (or a foot soak, if that’s something you do). I love them!

   3. I did Babyfoot for the first time a few weeks ago. I followed all the recommendations (soaking at least an hour before applying, soaking feet for at least 30 minutes everyday), and it worked somewhat. It didn’t get all my dead skin off, though, so I was a little disappointed. It’s still worth trying.

   4. Yessssssss. I have runner’s feet, so I need/ed to do it more than once. It was both gross and amazing all at the same time. I would definitely do it again!

   5. My daughters did Babyfoot a week or so ago. They’re shedding all over the place. Gross!

   6. I did the Grace & Stella one and it was amazing! So satisfying to peel off the dead stuff!

   7. For the people who did it, does the foot peeling “feel” like anything? I have really sensitive feet – a combo of anxiety/mild hyperventilation and ticklishness – and if I had to endure a week of itchy or buzzy feet while the skin comes off, I don’t think I could stand it.

      1. When I did babyfoot, it felt like nothing. The next time, I tried a random brand from Amazon and there were… sensations. It felt like I had shrunk my foot skin and it might rip open if I stepped on it wrong. Not painful, just weird and unpleasant. It went away after a couple of days and then the peeling began — that doesn’t feel like anything.

7. Anyone else feeling okay about the new normal for a few days… and then totally losing it? Just me? My emotional state is all over the place.

   Putting aside for a moment the very real fears about the virus itself and getting sick, everything else is so destabilizing and uncertain. Every aspect of everyday life has been completely upended.

   I’m finding I go through days of throwing myself into work, cooking, workouts, etc and then I have a day where I can barely get out of bed and eat a bag of salt and vinegar chips because why not.

   How are you coping?

   1. Same! Yesterday was abysmal. Today is great so far. I’m trying to roll with it as much as I can and lean into doing all the things in days I feel good.

   2. Yes, same. I have days where I feel fine. Like the situation is still hard, but I truly feel fine. And then I have moments where it all hits me and I am decidedly *not* *fine*. What helps me is sticking to a schedule as much as I can, keeping busy at work (never been busier), prioritizing sleep, and meditation. But it’s still just really hard. And I think that’s pretty normal.

   3. Pretty much the same as you. I live alone, and am working from home. In the scheme of things, I understand that my troubles in this time are very minor, but I’m feeling really lonely and bored and scared (not about my immediate situation, as my job is still stable for now, but about the uncertainty going forward, honestly, even more so than the virus itself).

      I’m also in the middle of am (amicable) separation/divorce, so it’s been kind of a lot. I try to remind myself, on the days that I can’t throw myself into work or a workout or baking or any other number of things that it’s OK and normal to have days that feel hard, and that my immediate needs are met, so put one foot in front of the other until it gets easier again. Yesterday I rowed on my rowing machine (borrowed from my gym) and deep cleaned. It felt good to get things organized.

      I am, however, very grateful that I was able to move out (January!) before this. As hard as it is not seeing my family (about an hour away) and my local friends, it would be so much worse if I were still in the house with my ex.

   4. I’m in pretty much the same place. I really struggled with working from home, and now I feel like I’ve gotten the hang of it just in time to go back to work next week. I always thought of myself as pretty resilient but that just hasn’t been the case.

   5. It’s definitely ups and downs. Judging by the number of chips and popcorn bags in my shopping cart though (only two on yesterday’s trip), there is hope. I am also totally over the fun game of ‘is the tightness in my chest from anxiety or Covid?’.
      How do I cope? Limited news and Twitter time. Exercise and eat healthy things. Get some sun. Use the forest app as pomodoro timer. Take It one day at a time. Journaling my thoughts. Still, some days are worse than others.

   6. I am so with you, OP. I feel pretty ok, new normal for a few days and then BAM, crying in the shower and wanting to sleep for like 10 hours at a time.

   7. I made a promise to myself that I would carve out time each day to do something productive. Some days that means reading an entire book, other days it means unloading one dish from the dishwasher. Forcing myself to change out of my pajamas shortly after waking up has also been helpful in setting me up for (my very loose definition of ) success.

   8. I have figured out that Mondays are the worst for me, because my weekends are not that different than what we used to do (we generally didn’t go out and spent most of our time at home) but then Sunday night I realize, no need to “get ready for the week,” no need to get anything ready for tomorrow because I’ll just be here. Again. Still. And it’s hard to pull out of that funk. I miss working around people waaaay more than I thought I would. I miss my coworkers driving me crazy, as hard as that is for me to believe. Yesterday was a not a good day for me. I mostly dealt with it by taking a nap after work and having cereal for dinner.

      I don’t really have any good tips for getting over it/dealing with it but you’re not alone.

      1. This is me 100%. I haven’t had Sunday Night Syndrome in years but now it is crushing, and that’s just because I know Monday will bring more.of.same. I’m pretty introverted but even I am really mourning the loss of in person contact with my awesome group of co-workers. Some days the isolation hits me like a ton of bricks and I can barely function; other days I feel decent and relatively productive. It is comforting to know that almost everyone is having a tough time with this.

   9. Yes. I feel like I have good days when I have a positive outlook, and other days where I just want to curl into a ball and cry. And I know I have it lucky – we are financially secure, husband’s job is secure (though income is down), my children are grown and safe and handling this as best as possible, my parents are (knock on wood) healthy. I don’t have the stress of trying to unexpectedly work from home, or contend with a job loss, or try to manage kids’ schooling, and I’ve bitten all my nails to the quick. I don’t know how others are even coping.

   10. Oh yeah, that sounds familiar. I go through streaks of feeling normal for several days, and then everything hits me like a ton of bricks. If I give into it, the mood passes more quickly. When I have one of those days, napping seems to be the best thing I can do for myself.

   11. Yeah, it comes and goes in waves. I’ve always tended to think a lot about the bigger picture (state of the economy, world, etc.) and that has obviously produced stress, even though my own situation is pretty good. I’m high-risk, but able to stay home, we have a comfortable apartment, no kids yet, two incomes, etc. Fortunately my husband is very even-keeled and positive about things, which helps a lot.

       I did have a worse day over the weekend and found that making another donation to a local food bank helped mentally. There’s really something to be said for the impact of giving back on your own mental health. If you’re in a position to do so, I recommend it – the need is only increasing for so many.

   12. I just ate a Twix for breakfast. I did yoga last night for the first time in months. So, same as you!

   13. Yes! Generally I am doing pretty well and even thriving, but yesterday I had a little misunderstanding at work and it threw me for a loop to the point where I couldn’t sleep all night and now I’m just completely flipped out about everything and I do mean everything.

   14. Yes – it’s the coronacoaster. I have mostly been finding it hits me on Sunday nights/ Mondays, like anon at 10.20. Last Thursday I was already feeling under the weather and then had a last-straw thing into my inbox which usually wouldn’t have bothered me that much but it completely threw me.

       1. Yes this. 100% had a meltdown last night with ugly crying. I feel better today lol .

          1. Oh, I was ugly crying on my living room floor wrapped in a blanket for a good half hour last Thursday. Not the best way to spend my lunch break….! It’s the worst panic attack I’ve had since the start of All This (the others have just been ugly crying, this had the hyperventilating and feeling like I might be sick, sorry for the detail), which isn’t bad.

       2. I love coronacoaster.

          Right there with all of you on the swings.

   15. Yep. I feel the same way. For me, it’s the uncertainty of knowing what life is going to look like going forward. Salons and restaurants are opening, but it’s not going to be the same as before. And it probably never will be. What are things going to look like a year from now?

       It sounds cliche, but I cope by taking it one day at a time. I use a habit tracker to keep track of little things during the day – like flossing and brushing my teeth in the morning. I know that sounds gross, but I could easily spend all day in bed or on the couch like a lump.

       Exercise has helped too. I’m 42 and for the first time in my life I’ve started working out a few times a week. I definitely notice an improvement in my mood on the days I work out.

       I keep a stash of cookie dough in the freezer because sometimes nothing feels better than a warm chocolate chip cookie out of the oven.

8. If you absolutely had to travel in the next month, would you rather drive or fly? Context – eleven hour drive. Would require rest stops/ gas station breaks. Otherwise alone in a car. Flight would be direct and about 1.5 hr air time each way. Trip is paid for either way and I can take the extra two days if needed to drive.

   1. I’d drive but I love road trips.

      1. I adore road trips too! I was sad that I thought the road trip time in my life had passed, but my drive vs fly window is different now.

         I mean, I love flying too, and miss it, even for work trips. I am hoping to resume this summer, but for right now, I do love my car.

   2. Drive. I’d pack food and wash hands / sanitize after using the restroom.

      1. When people say “sanitize” I realize that I am not quite sure what is involved. Is it something in addition to using hand sanitizer? I find people saying “sanitize your office” and is that using a wipe (which I can’t find in stores” or windex or rubbing alcohol (hand sanitizer is basically rubbing alcohol,no?), etc.

         1. 100% drive and sanitize. 11 hours in one day is totally doable. It’s a slog, but doable. What I mean by sanitie is I’d travel with hand sanitizer, lysol wipes and probably paper towels. Use paper towels to touch anything (handles to bathrooms), sanitize when I get back in the car, and lysol wipes as back up.

         2. “Sanitize” means to inactivate the virus (which is different from cleaning) – so soap/water for hands 20 sec. or the appropriate products for their individual “dwell times” (how long it needs to stay wet on the surface). For Covid, the right products are 70% alcohol, Lysol disinfectant products, hydrogen peroxide, or bleach.

            1. Is that stuff obtainable? We are using off-brand dish detergent as hand soap now. Can’t really get anything else.

            2. Hand soap and cleaners have been back at my local stores for a few weeks now.

            3. where are you? I’ve been seeing cleaning agent, bleach, hand soap, toilet paper back in shops for the last three weeks now. That’s at the big chains, e.g. Safeway and Target, Trtader Joes. I’ve never bothered to check in unexpected places, but a neighbor got a bunch of toilet paper from staples, and everyone is saying the small neighborhood grocery stores kept most things in stock all through April.

   3. Drive. I wouldn’t enjoy an 11 hour drive at all but I think it would be safer from a contagion standpoint. You have no control over how crowded the plane will be and you will be sitting next to those people for 1.5 hours. The length of time you are exposed to someone contagious is important. In a car, if you stop at a gas station and find it is crowded you can keep going until you find one less busy, and even if you stop somewhere crowded you are not going to linger for long.

   4. Ugh, I wouldn’t relish it, but I would drive just to be on the safe side. I would download lots of podcasts, audio books, make some appointments to talk with friends/family while in the car, and get through it.

   5. It would take me, personally, at least two days to drive “11 hours” one way, so I would fly. I have some anxiety about flying, but I would do it and observe strict protocols for sanitizing. The drive would present at least as many opportunities for infection, plus road danger, for me, given stops, meals, and a hotel stay. Sorry you are facing this dilemma.

   6. I’d fly – no way in h3ll I’d sit in a car for 11 hours, nope.

      1. This makes me laugh how even in good times we all have different preferences. When we visit my in-laws we take the dogs and drive – the whole 17 hours, usually over two days, sometimes in one. It’s a slog but I still prefer it over flying which I do when I have to get somewhere quickly, but otherwise prefer to avoid. I clearly enjoy road trips though.

      2. This.

   7. Fly for sure.

   8. I’ve decided to fly to move my daughter out of her dorm room, assuming the flights aren’t cancelled. We’ve already had COVID-19 in the house. I don’t think many people will be flying to the smallish airport. We’ll mask and glove and scru.

      1. Scru? Is this an acronym or auto-correct? OOTL …

         1. SCRUB! oops!

         2. I read it as scrub.

   9. Fly. That United flight full of doctors aside, most flights are pretty empty. I’ve done 11 hour road trips before, but those involved breaks at restaurants or to walk around a rest stop or convenience store. If you manage to find places that are open, you’ll probably get just as much exposure as on the flight. Airports/airlines have protocols. I don’t know that a gas station off the interstate in a rural area will be following protocols as seriously.

      1. I am finding that if restaurants are drive-through-only, you often can’t go in and wash hands / go to the bathroom. I might go with flying since it is a short flight. I can’t imagine not being able to use a regular bathroom when I stop somewhere.

      2. Team fly. Take the first flight of the day, wear a mask, don’t touch much.

   10. Normally I would say fly because I hate driving and highway hotels. And the amount of sanitizing going on in the airline industry is comforting. But the ever-shifting airline schedules are a massive headache. American, if you think you’re only going to run a flight 3 times per week could you please just go ahead and firm up the plans?? If you don’t mind constantly checking your itinerary for time changes then YMMV.

       1. This is why we’re not flying anywhere, although nowhere we would need to go would be direct, so that adds an extra layer that OP wouldn’t have to deal with.

   11. Drive. Not even a doubt in my mind. Set yourself up with a a couple sandwiches, beverages of choice, Clorox wipes and hand sanitizer. An 11 hour drive can be knocked out with two stops for gas/bathroom.

       1. After having kids, my body needs to stop every two hours to pee if I am eating on schedule and drinking a typical amount at meals. So this would tip me over to flying probably — pit stops eat into the total travel time and I think can be unreliable these days if your usual places aren’t open or close early.

   12. Where are you going to stay and eat at your destination? I would only travel if I were going to an empty house that no human had occupied for any period of time in at least a week, and I could get curbside pickup or delivery of groceries.

       I would drive and pack food for the trip. For restroom breaks, I’d either wear a mask and then sanitize my hands upon returning to the car, or buy one of those portable outdoor potties and stick it in the back seat.

   13. Absolutely fly. No question.

   14. I love road trips, so I would normally drive. My daily limit is about 900 miles or 13-14 hours.

       The one caveat is to fly if the trip is difficult, e.g., has you hitting hilly mountains as the sun is setting, has you going across a long stretch of desert in brutal heat, or a lot of one-lane roads. Since traffic is not much of a thing these days, you shouldn’t have to worry much about trying to make it around a city at rush hour, but do factor that in as well.

   15. Check the states along your route – in my state and our neighboring state, there are NO public bathrooms open. Not in gas stations, not in rest areas, none. I’d make sure you are comfortable peeing by the side of the road if you drive.

   16. The only way you’d get me on a plane is in a coffin. I’d definitely drive.

9. I used to joke that I was a child bride b/c I still had a baby tooth. I still have it (in my 40s). Do any of you still have baby teeth? My dentist thought it might make it to when I am 50 if I don’t have any accidents with it. It’s dawning on me that if I have a klutz moment before the world reopens, I will be noticeably missing a tooth for a while — eek. [And there is a procedure where they put a steel implant into your jaw to stabilize the jaw bone and surrounding teeth and then add a crown, but that seems to be a process vs a done-in-a-day procedure.] Baby tooth is stable but unlike real adult teeth, it looks like a solid blow (or fall, etc.) could easily knock it out.

   1. Wow! I was born without an adult tooth to replace one of my baby teeth, but they took out my baby tooth to put in a dental implant in my teens. I’m not sure it would’ve come out regardless, but my mom and my doc decided it was time to do the implant. There was a period of time where the baby tooth was out but I didn’t yet have my fake tooth in, so I wore a retainer with a fake tooth on it. It worked although I had to pop it out to eat. This was all mid-2000s, so hopefully they have a solution now to have a temporary tooth in there so you won’t be missing one. (My missing tooth was the one just to the right of my front teeth, so it was not something I loved the idea of missing for a considerable amount of time in high school.)

      1. This is almost exactly me, except that my baby tooth did come out and so I was left with no tooth for 2-3 years until I began the orthodontia process which included retainers and braces with a flipper until the actual implant was put in.

         Do you know if the root is normal length or on the shorter end? If it’s normal length, it might not come out too easily and might just be worth leaving it alone. On the other hand, if the root is short, it could be knocked out fairly easily and then you’ll be stuck with whatever the temp tooth du jour is until you can get the full implant put in.

   2. One of my dearest friends has quite a few baby teeth (we are late 30s/early 40s)! Unfortunately, it has caused her some issues and she is lucky to have a dentist in the family. I do believe that at some point, she will need impants, but is trying to put it off as long as possible while the baby teeth still do the job.

   3. I had a bunch of my baby teeth pulled because they didn’t fall out on their own. Did you get regular dental care as a kid?

      1. All I remember from early dentistry is having baby teeth pulled. Made me absolutely hate the dentist, still do.

      2. OP here. Very much so. My dentists have all been of a “do not disturb functioning teeth” variety. I think it has helped that I am a regular flosser and have very healthy gums holding it in and the teeth around it have never had issues. It’s a baby molar, so pretty sturdy, and only a bit different that the bicuspid that would be there as an adult tooth. It doesn’t look like a little chiclet tooth.

   4. Yes, I have one! My dentist said at my last visit that it is still rock solid. I’ve never asked about what would happen if it did fall out, I’m afraid to know the cost. I drink lots of milk, and he did say that probably has been a huge factor in how strong the baby tooth is. Anecdotally, I am missing a total of four teeth; 3 wisdom teeth and one regular adult tooth. I’ve always wondered if those things were related somehow.

      1. OP here — I think that they are — I am also missing 3 wisdom teeth and the 4th is a bud that has never developed or given me trouble, so I just left it alone. It seems to be common on one side of the family. That side of the family was regarded as rednecks by the more “cultured” side of the family but maybe they are more highly evolved? I view it as a feature, not a bug, but for the potentially noticeably toothless part. I guess “you should see the other guy” will have to become my catchphrase and if I wear a hockey jersey it will all seem to make sense?

         1. Not growing wisdom teeth is absolutely a feature and not a bug! That’s the next big frontier in human evolution IMO. You guys are like X-Men but your superpower is not growing superfluous teeth!

   5. My friend who was a severe preemie got wisdom teeth, but no other adult teeth. His teeth are noticeably too small for his head, and he’s struggled with severe wear and enamel sensitivity.

   6. My dad has one, and I have two! One started getting wiggly, and I had it removed and put in an implant about 4 years ago. The other is still going strong. The implant process is somewhat long – I believe my tooth was removed in August and my final crown was put in in January. During this time, they put basically a white eraser on the metal implant post, so the lack of tooth was not particularly noticeable. (My baby teeth are my first lower molars). I was really worried about dating with missing teeth, but it turned out that no one noticed it. Neither my dental nor my health insurance thought this was there problem, so, I had to pay out of pocket – I suggest you read your policies closely and see if you might want to start saving for the implant. You can also try to schedule the procedure so that it is split over the calendar year to maximize FSA savings. (I’m very happy with the implant, by the way).

      1. +1 to split over the calendar year, even if you have insurance. Step 1 will likely max out your benefits.

   7. I had a baby tooth until I was 35, when it finally got to the point where it needed to go. I got an implant. It is a process. If you did knock out your baby tooth, I have to believe getting the first step of an implant and a temporary tooth would be considered essential, no? My mom got an emergency root canal during shelter-in-place in the Bay Area (where I think we are one of the strictest). Going for awhile without a placeholder of a tooth can cause issues with your bite.

   8. I still have a baby tooth at 42. Same, it’s not very stable. I think it’s barely hanging on. My dentist always marvels that it’s still in place when I visit… Not so worried about a blow to the mouth, but eventually it will erode to the point that it needs to be extracted (I guess baby enamel isn’t as ‘permanent’?). So I imagine it’s more likely to be a gradual degradation.
      I haven’t really thought about it as a risk during COVID, as there seem to be so many more risks to myself and others during this time, but I suppose if it were to fall out it would require an emergency treatment like a crown.

      1. Not sure if you are being literal, but you can only get a crown on a stub of an existing tooth. So if your tooth literally falls out a simple crown is not an option. (A crown on top of an implant is, or a bridge but I’m not sure they recommend those anymore).

         1. Not being literal, but I’m fortunate enough to not be super familiar with these things yet. Thanks for the correction.

   9. My case was that my adult tooth never grew in to replace my baby tooth, and so I went through my teens with a space and the tooth next to the missing one actually turned sideways to fill in the gap. When I eventually got braces, they turned the sideways tooth around to recreate the gap and put an implant in. You’re right that the implant & crown is a process. I went to a surgeon for the implant and back to my regular dentist for the crown. The implant needed time to be stable before a permanent crown could be installed. So in the meantime I wore a temporary crown that occasionally fell off :)

   10. I have a baby tooth still hanging on! The roots aren’t that strong, so my dentist cautions me at every visit that it might come out. I also realized that I only ever get 2 stress dreams – showing up to class unprepared on an exam day and loosing my teeth!

       I worry about accidentally knocking my tooth out and having a gap in the front. But so far I’ve left the baby tooth as is.. waiting for it to fall on its own.

   11. I have one baby tooth (age 40) and my dad has three at age 75. No problems. Also run in our family.

10. Does anyone have advice for running a reading club? I started a virtual one among friends, but it’s been hard since they are all from different groups of friends and thus don’t know each other well.

    1. I’m in a virtual book club! I’m the “outsider” in my group – it is a group of us from college, but I was a year behind everyone else, and I’m friends with the person running the group, while the rest are better friends with each other (so, while I know the other women, with the exception of the leader, I don’t know them well). But, it’s worked out pretty well and I never feel left out or anything.

       What we’ve done is picked our books for the year at the beginning of the year (the leader sent out a list and we voted, then she announced the lineup). We do this because we were noticing that some people (esp with kids) needed longer lead time to get the book read; so by announcing the year’s lineup ahead of time, everyone can read at their own pace and be done by X date.

       Then, when the discussion date comes, the leader sends an email with some discussion topics/questions, and then one person (usually me) will start off the answers with a reply all, adding their answer/thoughts to each topic in a different color, and then the next person will reply all to that email, and so on – sometimes replying to the original or sometimes making additional comments to other peoples’ answers. So at the end, all of the answers are in one email, all in different colors. It’s been pretty fun and worked out well, plus it’s an extra way to stay connected. Enjoy your book club; I’m sure everyone will appreciate you heading it up!!

    2. I’m in a reading group BUT we don’t all read the same thing! When we meet, we each talk about 2-3 books that we’ve read recently and why they are great (or not so great, sometimes). We all read different genres and it’s been fun to expand my reading horizons. Last time 2 of my 3 were books I never would have found if not for the group, and I really enjoyed them.

    3. That’s great! I run a book club that meets in person (or used to, now zoom) and belonged to another in the past. Both times were a mix of people who all had some connection to one-two other people but mostly didn’t know each other. At the beginning it was very helpful to have a planned list of questions about the book to focus discussion, but now it is more free-flowing.

       One piece of advice is to pick the books and next meeting dates well in advance, otherwise it’s easy to lose momentum and say “oh we’ll coordinate over email” but then it falls apart for a while.

11. Does anyone have a favorite brand for plus size t-shirts? I’m thinking as the weather is about to get warmer and delivery is taking awhile from most brands, I should order some more short sleeve tees now. I’m looking for shirts that are not too short for a 5’6″ frame (my main complaint about Talbots tees which are otherwise perfect) and not see-through.

    1. I’m plus with a long torso… Loft is hit-or-miss on the not see-through, but i go there for more fun patterns/styles. For true basic t-shirts I go to lands end and, if you are open to QVC, the Izaac Mizrahi line.

    2. Caveat that I’m a cusp size (12-14), but I love Madewell’s Whisper Cotton V-Neck. They go up to a 3X, are consistently long enough (I’m 5’8″ with a long torso), and even in white, I don’t need an undershirt, just a nude for me bra. Would say they run large – I take a Large, not an X-Large in them.

    3. Macy’s has a (private label?) brand called Karen Scott, and their t-shirts are excellent quality – good length, not at all transparent, and sturdy. I have a bunch of the sleeveless and 3/4 sleeve ones, and I found that at 5’10” and a size 16, the xl was a generous fit. The plus size line is probably going to be similar.

       1. I like these too, but I think they run short

    4. Universal Standard is a great brand for high-quality basics including t-shirts. I can vouch that their Ts are on the longer side: https://www.universalstandard.com/collections/tee-shop

       1. +1 on the Universal Standard T-Shirts. Fairly good quality, pima cotton, wash well and are on the long side (but not too long – I’m 5’4 short-torso for reference)

    5. I’m cusp sized and love the LOGG brand tees from H&M. They’re long in the body (I’m 5’8” with all my height in my torso).

    6. I have ordered some “tall” size t shirts from lands end. The ones I bought I use for under sweaters in the winter, as they are not as thick as I would like for wearing by themselves. The length however, is fantastic, so I would check out their site to see if they a style you like in a tall version.

    7. Eileen Fisher knit tops are magic. They are somehow simultaneously not too thick or heavy, but also only cling in the right places?!?

12. Ugh — I hate that Dr. Google is the only doctor I can see now. I *think* I have nocturia (getting up to pee multiple times overnight). I don’t know if this is having had 2 v-deliveries or being in my 40s or what. I went camping before all this and hated that the penalty for having a beer around the campfire was having to pee at least 3 times overnight (not great when you are using a headlamp and trying to find your coat and it is 30 degrees outside). In lockdown, there isn’t that downside, only that I can’t always get back to sleep (and if I have a salty dinner, like Chinese food or pizza, I will need to drink something at dinner, but it is hell if I drink even a glass of water after 8 or so). My college days, of drinking tons of beer and waking just in the morning, must be gone forever.

    Qs for the hive: is this yet another thing that kegels would help with? Is there a treatment? Or just a s*cky part of aging that ends in my buying depends at some point?

    And for when doctor offices reopen — which specialty owns this problem? I thought that urologists were just for men. Is it a gyn? Something else?

    1. Ok no. Dr. Google is not the only doctor open. Call your primary doctor’s office and set up a telemedicine appointment.

       1. Yeah, this. Talk to an actual medical professional.

    2. I’d get on your health care app today, or call your doctor’s office today — or do whatever you do — and set up an online appointment. At the minimum, most health systems have a free, quick number you can call to talk with a nurse. Start there and get some basic questions answered. There’s no need to restrict yourself to Google and an generic internet forum of non-medical people.

       And yes, you are no longer a 20-year-old college student.

    3. Agree that you can get a telemedicine consult about this. Moments ago I had a zoom follow-up with my gastroenterologist. Urogynocologists deal with women, but you could probably start with your primary care provider. This may be something that can be treated with medicine; overactive bladder is.

    4. Doctors offices are open. Call your PCP and do a virtual visit.

    5. Your ob-gyn should be able to handle this, and it could most likely be done via telehealth with you describing your symptoms. Nocturnal waking is part of aging, but also consider if you have overactive bladder. There are medications for that.

    6. So not wanting to increase your anxiety but sudden increased urinary frequency, especially with nighttime waking to go to the bathroom, can be a diabetes symptom. You don’t have to be overweight or have a family history to become Type II diabetic. It is worth calling your doc.

    7. Yes, urologists deal with women. If you’re in NY, I recommend Elizabeth Kavaler at Total Urology Care of NY. She specializes in women, and came highly recommended by my gyn. When I was living in Philly, I saw just a general urologist at Penn Med and he was fine too.

    8. Great advice above. Will add: Kegels are not a cure-all. Kegels can, according to some physical therapists, make the problem worse.

       Your pelvic floor can be both weak and tight, and it may need stretching as well as strengthening. Absolutely book a telemedicine appointment, but do some yoga, too.

    9. This was a sign of sleep apnea for me, even though the start coincided with my last pregnancy (8 years ago). When I addressed the apnea last year, it went away entirely – I pee before bed and when I wake up in the morning. It is amazing!

    10. As someone mentioned above, urologists do work with women, 2 appointments have (so far, about 5 years) cured from lifelong problems. But, IME, you’ll get much better treatment from a female urologist, because it’s harder for men to understand that all the nerves and muscles for different functions really are mixed up and sometimes indistinguishable.

        I’ve also worked with pelvic floor physical therapists, with mixed results- the 1st one imposed her own shame script, and I actively tell people not to go to her. The second was very nice, wholistic, and informative, but ultimately didn’t have the right tools to “cure” me. The best treatment I’ve gotten was from a certified yoga therapist, who was able to help a lot in one-on-one sessions.

        TLDR: You deserve treatment for this, but sometimes finding the right professional is hard. Perservere, and advocate for yourself, because you deserve help!

    11. This can also be a sign of problematic fibroids (which often increase with age until you hit menopause, and then they shrink). I’d see a primary care doc or gyn. I live in a hot spot and they are still offering in person non-Covid appointments. They’ll do bloodwork (check for diabetes) and maybe an ultrasound (if they think it’s fibroids). If it’s something urological they’ll know which doctor to send you to. Urologists do see women.

13. What is the etiquette for picking up a dog that might be badly treated? I went for a stroll in a new neighborhood this past weekend on a day when it was hailing (in May!) When it was hailing really hard, I passed by this Cavalier King Charles dog who kept whimpering and shivering while being tied to a fire hydrant. I felt really bad for it and waited with it for about 20 minutes. I checked with owner of the convenience store nearby to see if its owner was inside or something. Anyway, I decided to wait a little longer and if no one showed up, maybe call the Humane Society or take the dog home with me. Finally, the owner showed up but basically ignored me while he unleashed the dog. It was a young guy who seemed pretty rough with the dog. The dog kept looking back at me while whimpering. Man, it was like watching a neglected child being picked up by a bad parent. It kind of made me wish I had just took the dog home.

    1. Are you asking if it’s appropriate to steal someone’s dog? No, it is not. If you have legitimate concerns you should contact the animal control authorities.

       1. Uh oh does this mean I need to return all the children I’ve nabbed because I thought they weren’t adequately supervised outside?! (Kidding)
          But also, yes, dog-stealing is pretty black and white. Don’t do it.

    2. I don’t think it is appropriate to steal a dog you just encounter one time and suspect is mistreated. I don’t think it is legal to take a dog you observe being neglected or mistreated over a long period of time, but I will be the lookout while you grab it.

       1. This.

       2. Agree it’s not legal. And I will drive your getaway car!

    3. Don’t steal dogs is a pretty clear rule.

    4. Holy cow. You wanted to steal the dude’s dog just because you thought he was mean? If you legitimately thought he was abusing the dog, you should have called animal control.

       I let my dog play outside in our fenced yard when it’s nice outside because it makes her happy. Are you going to steal her from my yard if you walk by and see her out there because she is “neglected”?

       1. If it was hailing hard and he left a dog outside, it seems like neglect. You’d think he’d act worried about the dog and maybe he wasn’t.

          1. There are certainly circumstances where I’d call animal control because a dog is tied out in a hailstorm (for example, if the dog is chained to a tree at a home during a storm). And if you suspect a dog is being mistreated, the correct course of action is always to call animal control and not to steal the animal. At least in my state, that would be theft, regardless of what you think the animal is going through.

             However in this particular case, the OP was on a “stroll” during this hail, which means it was either a surprise sudden hail storm or it wasn’t actually severe. Perhaps the owner also started out with his dog when it wasn’t hailing, tied the dog while he went into a store or wherever, and then it started hailing. While not impossible, it seems less likely to me that a person who buys a purebred dog and then takes it out of the house on errands is a person who is actually abusive or neglectful, absent more than this. As for the dog looking back at the OP while being taken away, my dog does that constantly, and she is treated almost like a human child (DINK household where she goes to doggie daycare, lots of treats, training classes, generally spoiled by “grandparents”).

    5. I would have stolen the dog, but I’m a bleeding heart and have dedicated everything I do to helping.

       1. Oh comeeee onnnnn

14. Can anyone recommend a black and white laser printer that can handle printing large documents (100+ pages)? Any particular factors I should consider while shopping for one? I’m looking for a printer for a home office now that I don’t have access to the nice printers at work. Thanks!

    1. We have a small HP laserjet that we bought for the office my team shares at my client site (so we dont have to use the big client printers), and we have successfully printed 100+ page documents many times.

    2. HP LaserJetP1102w. It’s the bomb. It only does B&W though

    3. Check this out:
       https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-home-printers/

       1. or if you prefer a laser printer, this: https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-laser-printer/

    4. Brother laser printers. I have an old version of this one: Brother – HL-L2390DW Wireless Black-and-White All-In-One Laser Printer – Gray

       I’m on my second of these printers now because I melted the first one (turned on the heat, forgot printer was in front of the heating panel) but it’s a workhorse and easily prints 100+ pages duplex. Also, the wireless printing just works, as does their phone app. Love it.

       1. My mom has a Brother with a feeder on top, which I covet. Only half joking. Being able to copy multiple documents without putting them on the scanner one by one is my home office dream.

       2. This. Inexpensive and very effective.

          1. +1 to Brother

    5. I have an HP8730 that I use to print 100+ page documents. I have had it for a couple of years and I like it well enough (never have found a printer that I love). It might be a little pricey though, my employer subsidized mine.

15. I know that we have had a lot of conversations here about whether the site is getting nastier or whether there have been rude/mean comments since the beginning. I think it’s mostly the latter, but lately I’ve noticed a new specificity to the mean comments. Certain Anon posters seem to be latching on to regular posters and going out of their way to critique or personally attack them in a way that I don’t recall seeing before (besides regular complaining about/at Ell!n). I have no idea what the answer is; it’s nice in a way that we don’t have to sign up with our real names or accounts tied to real email addresses since this is an anonymous forum and we sometimes have sensitive questions to post, but it also seems like a couple of problem posters (maybe one problem poster?) are dragging everyone down with next-level name-calling, light stalking, or full-on tr01ling. I saw someone recently posted that she used to post under a regular handle, but was basically forced to stop because of that kind of behavior. That seems a real shame, but how can we stop it while still having good open discussions?

    And yes, I’m realizing that I’m posting under Anon as well – but I don’t want to attract my own specific attacks by posting under a regular handle. It really bothers me to see that when it’s not even directed at me.

    1. Awww, I miss Ellen.

       Generally I try to just skim over the argumentative/mean posts. There is still enough good advice and smart thinking to keep me coming back.

    2. This is a periodic complaint that has always been the case here. I don’t think it’s any worse or better than usual. I also think people are very quick to assume any comment they find “mean” the work of one person. This is not true. It is not stalking to comment on a person’s posts on here and it is silly to call it that.

    3. I’ve read this site for a shocking number of years. There are ebbs and flows in nastiness. I think the nasty ones get bored and move on eventually.

       The mean commenters definitely drag down the site. People are hesitant to use a handle, so there are a bunch of “anons” responding to each other and it gets confusing. It is also unpleasant to read. It’s annoying to read “you’re insane” over and over and over again.

       I thought the “Ell!n” saga was annoying, so I just scrolled past. Never read them. Other people liked it so they read it.

       1. Omg the “you’re insane” comments are maddening.

          Nobody has ever circled back on the dismissive comments that were made in early March to all the people who were engaged in reasonable planning for the pandemic. There were so many women who were making good, responsible choices in preparing for the pandemic and all they heard was “you’re insane” or “calm down”.

          1. “There were so many women who were making good, responsible choices in preparing for the pandemic and all they heard was “you’re insane” or “calm down”.”

             There were one or two posters who were really bad with the “you’re nuts” comments in response to pandemic questions and it seems to me like they’ve either moved on or had their IP banned. Thankfully.

             1. I think I was telling people to calm down for a bit. I was wrong, it’s as terrible as people said it would be.

          2. I’ve long suspected that there are one or two regular visitors who truly just try to stir up trouble (true trolls, I guess). I do really think the same person who immediately accused anyone worried about this in early March of being racist switched over to “you’re going to kill us all if you go outside for a walk” in mid-April.

             1. Haha. I have no idea whether this is true or not but I really like this theory and will use it to help me scroll by some of these comments!

          3. I think about those commenters sometimes, the ones who were like “oh my god calm down, it’s just a bad cold, you don’t need hand sanitizer you need therapy!” and wonder if they’re still doubling down on that or if they eventually realized they were wrong. I don’t blame anyone for being in denial back then, but it wasn’t okay to be so aggressive about it.

       2. Yup, agree that it’s cyclical. I’ve read this site for years and used to comment under a regular handle, but stopped for a whole host of reasons. I still comment as an anon now. That said, I also think people’s patience is razor-thin right now and it seems like a lot of people are taking it out on the internet. And people seem to be clinging to their opinions and beliefs even more than at any point in the past. All of which is causing lots of angst.

       3. So odd how all the “Anons” don’t pick a freakin’ screen name. Make one up. My name isn’t really Lauren.

          1. But it’s tied not to a lack of creativity, or even a lack of desire to have more of an identify in this community, but of a persistent “tracking” of regular commenters by bully/troll types that can be a bit distressing. :(

             1. I would be happy to use a different handle every day to help with threading, but it seems to trigger getting stuck in mod.

                I do not comment at all on sites that require persistent handles over time.

             2. +1. I post mostly under this name but change to anon depending on the question to avoid having too much info traced to one poster. Trying to do anything more complicated leads to endless m-d problems.

    4. I just skip over the threads where there are deep fights. I have learned that people will find a way to cast blame for everything. One time I wrote about my sister didn’t tell our Middle Eastern family that she was gay (we travel back there frequently and it’s a death sentence!) and there was a whole discussion that followed about how people don’t love and open up to their families enough. Lol. I take everything with a grain of salt after that. There is still some truly excellent advice and discussion. I just skip over the overly judgmental stuff.

       1. Yes, I think there has always been this element here but agree it does seem particularly worse at the moment (not worse than it’s ever been, just in one of the worse periods). I think a lot of that is people channeling their anxiety/frustration with everything happening into even benign posts.

          To the point about how posts sometimes totally derail, I think there’s also often a tendency for posters (myself included sometimes!) to take posts very very personally, as if someone commenting or asking a question about a situation that literally has nothing to do with the reader/responder is a direct attack on the reader. I get it, it’s hard to remember that people aren’t posting AT you but I think that drives a lot of the nastiness.

          1. +1 I think this is exactly what’s happening

    5. I think it has been worse in the past 3 months than the past year+. I get having strong feelings when people post about topics that might bring up those strong feelings, but there have been a ton of lighthearted threads recently that have gotten super mean and not in a helpful constructive way.
       I am totally fine with people disagreeing and having debates about topics (like we’ve seen in some of the virus response threads), but so many have just been snipey responses straight up saying “that’s stupid” or the like with no helpful suggestions.

       1. Yep, I laugh when I come across the poster who always says “there’s no way this is real” every time she disagrees with something or encounters a situation that is unfamiliar to her life experience.

    6. It’s not new, unfortunately. Maybe 18 months ago there was clearly someone who disliked me specifically and had paid a LOT of attention to things I said about my personal life, in a way that I found pretty uncomfortable. As a result, I post less in general, have gotten very careful about sharing personal information under this handle, and now often post anonymously if I’m going to ask a certain type of question or say something more personal.

       Folks who’ve been around a long time will remember other times this happened (trying to remember the really notable example from 7-8 years ago – was her name Shana?).

       1. Ha I remember her. Shayla? maybe? She would comment on almost every thread so she really stood out! Almost as bad as Princess Consuela Banana Hammock over on AAM.

          I most definitely do not miss E—n but at least I knew I could scroll right on past. People leaving curt, mean replies are harder to ignore since they’re commingled with other comments. I am not saying we should be one of those “saying something critical means you’re not supporting other women” places – ugh! – but the amount of criticism that is rudely phrased seems to be increasing.

          1. Omg PCBH on AaM. Is she the one who always replies first and almost always has had a similar situation or similar job? I remember once I challenged her and basically said “ok, this is now how the legal system works. This is now how lawyers or lawsuits or legal process of service works” and was shot down because there are some real loons over there. I find Alison’s advice almost always on point (except for cover letters for legal jobs but even she caveats that) but the commenters always skew super anti-social and against sharing anything personal at work.

             1. She always replies first and is, I think, a lawyer. But something about her always rubbed me the wrong way – she’s not nearly as clever as she thinks she is.

          2. Ugh! I feel so…. mad reading this. I successfully used “Shayla” as a handle, nicely to the best of my knowledge, for years (at least as far back as 2016) and have been a reader since Kat was still an attorney (but had used other handles before that). I went on a hiatus and came back to someone using Shayla… and they weren’t nice. I changed my handle and thought I was being too sensitive… but this confirms it was the right choice! There was a more egregious mean handle, Shana, who you might actually be referring to, but the fact that they could be interchanged is still sad to me.

       2. I’m a …gosh.. forever reader? I used to post under a consistent handle but then I remembered things like this. I mean, without even really trying I feel like I knew KT really well, which then made me realize I needed to change it up. I usually use Anon or some variation thereof now.

          I strongly (irrationally) disliked Ellen, but I could always just scroll on by. I miss the Miss Behaved (and predecessor monikers), and others from way back when.

          I think the extra divisiveness is also a sign of the times. Things in the world are just…. angrier, and it would seem this board is not insulated from that.

          1. A thing I find interesting, as someone who is a longterm participant in a lot of online communities, is that this site has never had explicit policies around commenting or participation, and has never developed strong informal norms around that either. The former is Kat’s choice. The latter is, I think, a result of the fact that the commenter population isn’t that stable. There are a number of us who’ve been around forever, but I get the sense that turnover is otherwise fairly high (although that’s hard to judge given the proliferation of anon handles).

             As an observer of such things, I do think the site is likely on a gentle drift downward. The utility of the comments section is significantly less to me than it has been in the past (both due to some of the issues discussed here but also that as I become more senior I don’t find the conversations have as much application to the issues I deal with); I don’t tend to see many younger, newer to the workforce people commenting; and content feels less relevant. I’ve been on a lot more in the last few months due to needing entertainment during WFH, but I don’t feel the excitement/attachment to the site I did maybe 5 years ago. Put differently, 5 years ago I felt like this site had a distinctive voice and viewpoint, and the commentariat had a more defined “personality,” for lack of a better word. That focus has largely evaporated, IMO. Which is sad, but everything has a lifespan.

             1. I’m a long term poster too. I’ve gone through 3 usernames in 7ish years. The first one was inexplicably stolen, either by someone impersonating me or someone new who didn’t realize the moniker was already taken, the second moniker was viciously targeted by another regular poster, and now I’m on my third user name which hopefully I’ll be able to keep. It’s a tricky line to walk that’s for sure.

             2. I think there are a fair few of us newer-to-the-workforce commenters around – that came out in the chat about how to deal with performance reviews during All This. We just don’t usually explicitly mention our age or life stage. I wonder whether we could do a commenter census – might help Kat with picks too. Just age range, income range, clothing budget, level of formality, corporate level, sector, geography.

          2. It’s a vicious cycle: as fewer people post under regular handles, the rude people have fewer people to target and spend more of their energy on those few. It’s easier for regular readers to remember the details of their lives, which further discourages people from using consistent handles.

             I really wish Kat would make the switch to requiring some sort of handle for all commenters, much the way AAM does. (The AAM comment section is a bit… off… but does not seem to have the problem of an army of anonymous attackers.) I also wish that she would encourage more posts about issues relevant to high-achieving women, perhaps by getting in guest posters in areas ranging from making partner to how to publish a book.

       3. Yes, her name was Shana and I sort of love that commenters occasionally achieve this kind of celebrity status! I started reading in 2010, and she didn’t stay long after that IIRC, so she is more like a 10-year hall of famer.

          I agree there’s a special meanness to attacks that draw upon previously posted info. For example, I have mentioned that I don’t have kids, and then on a different discussion later got ridicule related to the fact that I don’t have kids. “Stalking” is a strong word, but this does show a degree of tracking and targeting that’s just…doing a lot. I’m still here and still using my handle because I value the community feel more, though.

          I also believe we should own our more pointed comments with consistent handles, and am never going to stop judging rude Anonymous(es) for being ultra tough, grown-up and worldly in every way except this one very basic and easy one!

          1. I don’t think it was me that made a comment about you not having kids, but I can see myself saying something like that. I don’t really consider it tracking or targeting; I honestly remember info about most if not all the regular commenters without even trying, and I think it’s valid to point out when someone in a discussion may be missing a relevant piece info, whether it’s because they don’t have kids or a Big Law job or whatever it is that’s being discussed. I would never target someone to be cruel (like I would never imply you’re lesser than other people because you don’t have kids) but I guess I just don’t think it’s that weird to remember a lot of info about the regular commenters. It’s part of why I’ve chosen to post under Anon myself, because I don’t want other people having that kind of info about me.

             1. The comment was something about how when I’m old I won’t have anyone who cares about me, since I don’t have kids, so it wasn’t exactly constructive on their part. I am never out here talking about how to raise kids, or how to do anything else I’ve never done!

             2. Ok, that’s horrible and I definitely didn’t say that. But I do think some of the regular commenters (not necessarily you) jump to “stalking” or “creepiness” whenever anyone indicates they remember anything about a regular poster. And for me at least, I remember things about everyone who posts with a regular handle without even trying. It can definitely cross a line, but simply remembering facts someone has shared publicly about themselves isn’t necessarily inappropriate or weird.

             3. “The comment was something about how when I’m old I won’t have anyone who cares about me, since I don’t have kids, so it wasn’t exactly constructive on their part.”

                In my old age (okay, I’m about your age), I’ve noticed that every single person who says this – man, woman, old, young – is a miserable POS engaged in a lot of projection. They know that people will not voluntarily be around them when they are old, and need kids who can be guilted into it, and just do not understand that some other people have a life plan for not being lonely known as “be a decent person.”

    7. I think what is great about the dilemma you are facing is that this is not your site to either police or modify, so you really don’t have a problem to address or solve at all. Done!

       1. Wow speak of a nasty comment. This is a classic example of a comment I did not see years ago.

          1. Sorry, but I LOL’d at this. I have been reading since Kat was still working as a lawyer and doing this as a side gig. Those type of comments absolutely have always been part of the dialogue here. I honestly don’t know what time period people who say “it’s different now than it was” are referencing. As long as I have been reading it has always been like this.

             1. I’m lolling at your comment. It’s you against multiple other commenters with the opposing view. And yet you still think somehow that gives your comment more authority over others? Hilarious.

             2. “I’m lolling at your comment. It’s you against multiple other commenters with the opposing view. And yet you still think somehow that gives your comment more authority over others? Hilarious.”

                Wow. Contributing to a discussion about nasty comments by adding a nasty comment? That’s so meta

             3. I thinking replying to a nasty comment through a nasty comment is sometimes necessary, in order to discourage these people from polluting the comments. Also, assuming that the person who replied to the second reply is the same person, that person technically has made 2 nasty comments already and is clearly not giving up on this thread.

             4. “Also, assuming that the person who replied to the second reply is the same person, that person technically has made 2 nasty comments already and is clearly not giving up on this thread.”

                The only nasty comment on the thread I see is this one?
                “I’m lolling at your comment. It’s you against multiple other commenters with the opposing view. And yet you still think somehow that gives your comment more authority over others? Hilarious.”

                I think this may be a case where someone is coming back and posting in support of themselves, trying to look like someone else, which does happen here frequently IMO.

             5. +1

                I think there are some ebbs and flows, but I don’t even think this is even one of the worst spells.

             6. Anon at 11:50am, your comment actually reveals that you are the person returning to support your own comment. Speaking of “hilarious”

             7. ”Wow. Contributing to a discussion about nasty comments by adding a nasty comment? That’s so meta“

                It’s called punching a bully back in defense of the person she is targeting.

             8. “Anon at 11:50am, your comment actually reveals that you are the person returning to support your own comment. Speaking of “hilarious””

                Sorry, what?

          2. This was not meant to be “nasty”, Donald. It was meant to snap the poster back to reality so she can conserve her energy for her own problems. Kat G owns this site. She can change moderation or force usernames or whatever but she has chosen not to. I am certain that is for reasons after considerations, not because she is derelict. I think one way this site has always been.particularly useful is in providing a reality check for a lot of overly-anxious posters.

             1. She is pointing out a legitimate problem that is making it unpleasant for many of us to visit this thread, which includes comments like yours. Also, just because people have been rude in the past does not excuse them being rude in the present. If we don’t call out posters like you, it would be like condoning bullying.

       2. I think we should all make a practice of replying to nasty comments and calling them out. And if there is more than 3 comments calling out a particular comment for being nasty, then the moderator of this site should ban that commenter’s IP address from this site.

          1. I think that’s a terrible plan that just encourages piling on.

             1. Agreed. I will also note that although there are definitely some nasty posts, sometimes a gentle comment to the nasty poster actually prompts an apology (for example, that happened on the afternoon thread yesterday). Maybe we should try that route?

          2. No, not when Anon posters are gleefully piling on to regular posters for no real reason.

          3. Okay, except, she won’t do that.

             A number of years ago for a few days there were multiple comment threads about getting Kat to add site registration, or allowing for anonymous commenting but some kind of community moderating/upvoting and downvoting system like Reddit, etc. People posted suggestions and also emailed her directly (I was one of them). Several “commenting engine” plugins for websites had become available and people felt like Kat should adopt one of them. She didn’t. Bottom line, she makes money on this site based on clicks and adserves, which is fine – that’s the monetized blog business model and the reason why this blog is still here vs. many others that have shut down when the owners couldn’t make money. Part of the draw for the site are the fights. The big hot mess nasty comment threads draw clicks/views and that makes Kat money. People frantically refreshing the page to see who’s responded to a flamewar might as well be accompanied by a CHA-CHING, CHA-CHING noise because every time the page refreshes, more money is made. So there’s no reason for her to change anything or even ban the “nasty” commenters (and by the way – it isn’t just one or two isolated people).
             If you don’t like this schema you have two choices:
             – Learn to live with it
             – Leave
             I left for awhile, because I didn’t like it. I came back because I learn valuable things here. But I had to accept that this site is not like a Reddit subreddit where there is democracy or communal decision-making about how the comments are moderated. You can like how things work or you can lump it. I get enough value from the site to continue reading here but have given up any idea that there will ever be a substantial change in the commenting system to make it more community-focused/driven and less geared toward conflict.

             1. This sums up how I feel. I have also taken breaks from time to time when the mean comments get to me too much but I usually find my way back because I find a lot of good advice and information posted here and try to ignore the noise.

          4. Last time I checked, the comments “calling out” the nasty comments are often just as bad as the original “bad” comment. See what happens to the way Pure Imagination is piled on.

             1. When a bully punches you, you punch back.

             2. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind @anon 3:49

             3. I don’t fault anyone for firing back at someone who attacks them but it seems unreasonable to do that and then complain about the tone of the board. Be the example you want to see in others. There are ways to respond to personal attacks that aren’t also personal attacks or mean. People do it successfully, and sometimes the original poster actually apologizes! I don’t think anyone backs down after they’ve been punched back.

    8. I started browsing this site since 2013. In recent years, I have noticed that the mean and judgmental comments tend to appear early on in morning, while the kind and helpful answers tend to appear around noon and afternoon. It used to be that not many comments would appear until around noon or so. It makes me wonder if the people browsing this site in the early morning are actually professional women or stay at home or part-time mom types who maybe used to be professional women when they first began visiting this site. I wonder if some of the single professional women who started browsing this site from a few years ago, but who have since become housewives or part time mothers with chill jobs are now becoming the nasty judgmental commenters because they need some sort of outlet/distraction from their home lives. I think the key is just to ignore those comments. But the nasty comments do tend to discourage nice people from asking questions.

       I also made a question about buying cotton masks back in Feb, and was immediately smacked down by about 20 commenters about how useless masks were. I ended up not buying any masks until they were all sold out. It was the first time where the collective advice from this thread turned out to be wrong.

       1. I think this comment is truly bizarre. And really really not ok to assume mean people are stay at home moms.

          1. +1 so bizarre. I’m not a SAHM but I don’t like how judgy some people here are towards them. Ironically (?) the moms s!te is much more empathetic.

       2. I know many stay at home moms. They are usually wrangling kids by themselves in the mornings, while I am normally drinking coffee and reading this site while I should be working. The “bored housewives” trope is usually not based in fact, especially for SAHPs with multiple young children.

       3. Or maybe a lot of people are just rude before caffeine kicks in.

          1. Maybe people really are eating the muffins we recommend they eat and then feeling better. Dare to dream.

             1. :)

             2. The “eat a muffin” comments themselves seem super nasty to me. I have been told to eat a muffin before and I’m sure I didn’t mention any specific commenter by name in my post.

             3. It’s not about mentioning a specific commenter by name; it’s about just railing on someone who doesn’t deserve it.

       4. This is weird. It’s professional people in the office who are on early checking the site while drinking coffee)and SAHPs who don’t have a break until midday or early afternoon often (as a professional woman with a lot of SAH friends). I think the browsing habits are literally the opposite.

          Also all the parent sites I know are way nicer. Parents tend to have highly developed senses of empathy and senses of humor! They have to these days!

    9. Yeah, I’m pretty sure I’m going back to Anon, which I posted as for 8 years without any issues. I think I got a few “that’s dumb” or even the infamous “you’re insane” a time or two, but that’s it. I started getting a bit creeped out in recent weeks when I got a “PI you’re so rude and condescending” on a kind, sensitive comment on an issue I care a lot about (intuitive eating, if anyone remembers). I can’t control how others act on this website, but I can at least not have a more specific name tied to my posts. Shame though since I love this name.

       1. Please keep it! I really appreciate being able to talk about intuitive eating, and I really like “knowing” who is commenting.

       2. So that was me and I’m sorry it was hurtful. I read your comment as basically telling a woman who said she wanted to lose weight that it was hopeless and I thought that was condescending to her- we are allowed to want to lose weight! But I’m also quite comfortable with rough and tumble conversations and truly truly did not mean to cause you lasting distress or make you feel creeped out! I will try to do better on this because I don’t want a quick comment on my initial reaction to be causing harm to you or anyone else.

          1. Hey, thanks for this. I appreciate it. I also really appreciate some regular posters chiming in positively below.

          2. Props for owning this! I find it so helpful to witness that I’m not the only one who puts my foot in my mouth on the regular. I can think of very few times in my life that I’ve been intentionally mean but I definitely hurt feelings by speaking (or writing) too quickly or just not understanding how my words may be interpreted.

       3. I don’t understand why you’ve attracted a hater. I don’t agree with you 100% of the time but I have always found your posts to be very thoughtful and respectful, even when you’re getting attacked.

          1. +1

          2. yep, I’ve also found some of the personal attacks on PI bizarre and undeserved.

             1. Agreed. There was even one yesterday that seemed so unnecessary for what I recall was a benign comment. Anyway, PI, keep posting under your handle and haters be damned.

       4. I’m sorry about what’s been happening here to you lately. I’ve had my own stalkerish troll experiences on this forum – and the craziest part is, I’ve never even posted with a handle!! People are just literally playing detective, trying to connect dots – “this sounds like a similar situation to this other one that’s been posted before” “are you the person who posted that other thing?” “I can recognize the tone and punctuation of your post and assume you to be this person”.

          I posted early 2020 about homesickness and some relationship challenges that was causing, basically – that I moved cities for a job, met partner, we agreed that if relationship were to get serious we’d move back to my home city, then we got married and never did. I got great responses that helped me get some perspective, and useful advice. Then I posted at least a month later (totally anon, totally unrelated to other post) saying that I had some unsettling experiences in my neighbourhood – I suspected someone was creeping around my house at night, and this was particularly unsettling at the time because my partner was away on travel. Some poster somehow connected me to the earlier post (I think literally based on the fact I mentioned I was in a large Canadian city I did not grow up in, that’s it) and accused me of making up or exaggerating the concerns about my safety to try to force my partner to move to my hometown. My post was literally about “what do I do if someone actually breaks into my home?” and also “how involved should I get the police about suspicions like this?”. Since I posted, I CAUGHT a man creeping around my house at night, and the police have arrested two men in my neighbourhood, including one a block from my house, accused of voyeurism and “indecent sexual acts”. I honestly could not believe people were able to narrow down the City I live in and tie me to a previous unrelated post, then make up some nefarious narrative to try to discredit me and my concerns (?). All absent my involvement.

          1. Wow, that is so bizarre and unsettling. Glad you are okay and that the police caught the guys and I hope that posts like that do not continue to happen to you.

          2. I remember your post and I didn’t think you were lying. I’m so glad they caught the guy! How scary!!

       5. I agree. There are all to many people on this site that are Anon and nasty, and it is hard to figure out who is bashing you. I think that by giving your real name, you are taking a chance, but at least people can know you, or at least know who you are.

       6. I’m on team don’t go back to Anon. I think many of the people piling on you are also Anons, but it’s hard to tell if it’s one person or several. I agree with housecounsel that it’s nice to know who’s commenting!

       7. PI, thank you. Even if people don’t agree with you, you have a point of view and you’re sharing it under a regular handle and I appreciate that. People “calling you out” under anon and following you around is obnoxious.

    10. Very long time reader (10+ years? Can’t remember when I started reading), and very rare poster. Yes, I absolutely agree it’s gotten much, much nastier in the past few months, to the point that I read a lot less than I used to. Hate seeing women beat up on other women so much. I also read Cup of Jo, and it’s fascinating to me what a different commenting culture there is there. I assume CoJ “policies” much more, but also perhaps just different women are drawn to it?

        1. That should have said polices, not policies.

    11. I read comments before I even look at names, if at all. But when I do read the names I find there are certain people I disagree with more often. And a lot of times here people think if you disagree with them, you’re attacking them. So somebody might think I’m following a specific person around just to t r @ l l them, but I just find I disagree with them more often than not. And besides doing a +1 or something, there’s not a lot of reason to reply to the comments I agree with, so the people who I think are great (that’s you, Rainbow Hair!) I don’t often reply to.

        1. Sure, there’s disagreeing, but there’s also a lot of piling on, personalized attacks, “your posts always suck,” and stuff like that happening. I was kind of shocked to see the level of vitriol directed at Pure Imagination and LaurenB on multiple days. I saw it happen to Never too many shoes a few months back as well, but that seemed to die out quickly.

           1. I did seem to be rubbing one (or several) anons the wrong way for a bit…

    12. Ellen is a TREASURE
        But yes, this site has gotten very nasty the past couple of years. I use “Anonanonanon” as my regular handle (I’ve seen someone else do it, too, so oops) after I abandoned my last one a year or two ago

        1. I’m a long time E–en fan. I think it’s wrapped up in my nostalgia for what this s!te was like >10 years ago. I still think it’s a good place, and I really enjoy some of the newer (last 5 years heh) people.

           1. +1 huge Ellen fan here!

              I’m also a long time poster who went anon a few years ago due to a stalkerish thing.

    13. I’ve been a rare poster and off/on reader for years. I just came back yesterday after not reading for at least 6+ months (maybe longer, I can’t remember). What happened to Rainbow Hair? Is she okay? Did she just go anon? I always liked her posts.

        1. I’m curious too. I feel like I could go on great a road trip with Pugs n Bourbon, Senior Attorney, CBackson + Rainbow Hair.

           1. Right?

              BTW I had a Corporette table at my wedding in 2016. It was amazing.

              1. This is amazing and warms my heart

        2. Rainbow Hair was here recently – I think she was just on corona-hiatus…

        3. Another poster I think of sometimes that used to be very active a year or 2 ago and I haven’t seen for awhile is Sloan Sabbith. She seemed like she was having a tough time and then disappeared, but maybe she has also gone anon. If so, and you’re reading this, I hope you are well!

           1. Oh, wow- I’m here. This makes me smile- thank you. I took a break for awhile (a long while) but am back. Every time I posted for months I got sent to mod (for unknown reasons), so I stopped and then only recently came back. I’ve been posting under No Longer Anon, but I’ll switch it to Sloan again!!!

              I was having a horrible time when I stopped commenting in early 2018, and then my best friend died of cancer so I was having a doubly difficult time. My mental and physical health has improved significantly (by leaps and bounds) in the last 2 years, and I’m at the same job but have a slightly different position that doesn’t make me miserable, and I’m generally doing really well. Thank you so much for posting this.

              Rainbow Hair sent me an amazing email during the Fall from Hell in 2017- hope you’re doing well, haven’t seen you around here much recently!

              The one comment I remember making me so sad was that I was calling my new dog “my pup” and someone posted something like “JFC, stop calling it your pup, it’s annoying AF, ugh.” I still remember it for how crappy it made me feel in the moment.

              1. Hi Sloan! I’m the OP of the Rainbow Hair comment and I remember you too! So glad to hear you’re doing well.

              2. I am just seeing this comment today and I am not sure if you will see my response, but I am so glad to hear you are doing well. I remember you having a very difficult time with physical and mental health, not to mention work stress. it makes me so happy to see you are doing so much better.

                 :)

    14. There is a lot of unnecessary nastiness that results from people being, what I perceive to be, overly judgmental. And judgmental about seemingly innocuous things. I recall a hair removal technique thread I participated in, and there was a lot of judgmental commentary about what hair people removed and why. It was just bizarre.

16. What are your favorite condiments, either store bought or from recipes? I’m looking for some new flavors to add to roasted veggie bowls, breads, chips, sandwiches, anything!

    1. These are all vegan, but are very tasty. All easily Googleable – not including links to avoid mod.

       I have been making The Minimalist Baker’s 5-ingredient vegan pesto a lot and it is delicious. I put it on everything. I also make her cashew-based queso which never lasts long because I eat it out of the container. This past weekend, I made a chimichurri sauce and roasted red pepper dipping sauce from Thug Kitchen that are delish.

       1. Speaking of Minimalist Baker, I really like her chipotle romesco sauce (search minimalist baker and roasted cauliflower tacos to find it, as it’s a condiment specifically to that recipe), which is also vegan.

    2. Have you made hippie sauce (tahini, honey, vinegar, chilli, and something else)? I really like ginger sesame dressing and the thai peanut dipping sauce. Could eat a whole plate of veggies dipped in the peanut sauce.

       1. Hm, do you remember the “something else”? That sounds like the perfect sauce for me!

          1. There is a recipe on Digging up the Dirt, but I never use nutritional yeast. But I should, as I have been adding it to everything recently as it’s delicious.

             1. Thank you! Going to make it as soon as I can get to the store to buy tahini.

          2. Heh, I thought it was an oblique reference to MMJ. :-)

    3. from Trader Joes I like the miso dressing and the vegan pesto

       1. Yes, also from TJ’s I love the Green Goddess dressing from the refrigerated section (NOT the shelf-stable one), and their spicy peanut vinaigrette.

    4. Not sure if you have Cava Grill in your area, but I love their harissa and roasted red pepper hummus that they sell at Whole Foods.

    5. Sriracha mixed with light mayonnaise on fish. Hazelnut or pumpkin seed oil drizzled on grain bowls.

       1. +1000 to sriracha mayo – I’m lazy so I just buy premade from the store. Stonewall farms has a sriracha aioli (fancy mayo!) that is so good on basically everything, but particularly fish tacos.

          1. I put this on turkey sandwiches. It’s great.

    6. harissa – you can buy pastes on amazon
       i recently bought fish sauce, after a long time of seeing it in recipes and ignoring it…

    7. Homemade mayo is great! Also love mixing herbs and things into plain greek yogurt for dips and spreads. Toum is a little more obscure and is fun to make: https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2018/01/toum.html

    8. Maple tahini – basically tahini, a squeeze of lemon juice, and a drizzle of maple syrup with some salt & pepper. Or honey in place of the maple syrup.

    9. I’m all over oil-packed calabria chilis these days. Also pickled jalapenos or really pickled anything.

    10. Marie Callendar chipotle ranch dressing/dip. I put it on salad and sandwiches and also like to dip fries in it.

    11. We really like sprinkling condiments in our house:
        Trader Joe’s Everything Bagel Sesame Blend
        Eden Shake- a Sesame seeds and nori sprinkle
        At the Asian Market there are a bunch of different kinds of furikakes – basically a blend of seaweed, dried fish, spices, etc. read the labels if you are trying to avoid MSG, though.
        We sprinkle this stuff on rice, noodles, cream cheese, popcorn, etc.

    12. Bibigo gochujang sauce

17. My fortune 500 company “Women’s Group” is currently participating letter writing campaign of “thanks” to the health workers.
    A) as if we didn’t have enough to do right now
    B) Write to politicians instead – people at work should earn Hazard pay!!
    C) This is some sexist bullshit.

    Two weeks ago they did a “spirit week” where they asked you to send in photos of you dressed up (decades day, sports day, etc).

    This seems like some 1960s “let the women help” bull and I am not all about it.

    1. In BigLaw and I have always regarded “women’s group” things as optional. I’ve never had the stones to say that openly, but I am just “busy on deadline” if ever asked (rarely; usually only in the context of paid external speaker events that are (always) under-attended).

    2. This is actually worse than my company’s women’s group, which actually did a recipe book.

       1. Thank you for this bit of schadenfreude.

          At my last (also fortune 500) company, the local women’s group was asked to do party planning for the employee day. *Sigh*. That’s when I quit that group and refused to help out with any activity planning.

       2. Was it a half-size and have comb-binding? Extra points if it was done in the pseudo-cursive font.

          (I guess I have a few church recipe collections lying around…)

       3. I am a regular poster but was Anon for This Only because the recipe book is so specific it might out me. We are a multinational corporation with very few women in senior management. It’s so appalling I am glad others see it this way. I mentioned it to my male boss, who is not generally sexist, and he didn’t see the big deal.

    3. That is wild.

    4. I am of course grateful to all the healthcare workers and other essential workers, such as grocery store clerks.
       However, I can’t help but think:
       – Do healthcare workers really want nightly hand-clapping, or would they rather just have sufficient PPE?
       – I’m happy to say thank-you to grocery store clerks, but wouldn’t they really rather just have hazard pay?

       1. I’m thinking that about the flyovers we’ve had. Like – do essential workers really feel grateful and recognized because the Air Force hopped in their planes? Or maybe they would have rather had that money go towards more PPE…

          1. Not to mention that in many places large crowds gathered to watch those flyovers so it actually made more work for the healthcare workers. So dumb.

             1. My healthcare worker spouse without sufficient PPE or testing cannot stand seeing those flyovers. What a waste of money.

          2. The flyovers have been a real hot-button in our area. The explanation I keep hearing is that “the money has already been allocated for training, that’s why they’re doing it” which … makes no sense to me. If money has been allocated then it can get re-allocated (I get it may not be simple, but it can happen).

             The other argument has been that the flyovers are part of “readiness” for our armed forces. When we have stealth drones, I don’t understand the role that these noisy-ass fighter jets play.

             1. Fly-overs are a way for pilots to get flight time, and thus flight pay. If they don’t meet a certain threshold on hours each month, they won’t get the extra money the following month. Those who “fly a desk” often are scrambling for time in the cockpit to get their hours in. A cousin who was in the Air Force talked about how many of the more senior officers would have to take night flights to keep their time up and their pilot designation.

             2. Same argument here, but obviously they’re practicing other times without scaring the ever loving hell out of people who somehow missed the news about flyovers. I f-ing HATE when the Blue Angels fly in the summer. It’s cool, but also SO BLOODY LOUD and screws up traffic for days for the “air show” (aka they shut down one main bridge in and out of Seattle for full days). I’ve talked to veterans who absolutely loathe it because it’s so triggering for them.

          3. omg we JUST had a flyover today in Michigan for “healthcare workers” and it kinda drives me nuts bc my husband is at work right now, and the timing of it allows those who aren’t healthcare workers to enjoy it??

             1. @KS IT Chick- that is really interesting and helpful information.

          4. One perspective but my healthcare worker spouse appreciated the flyover. He was working nights so go to see the one in our city. He doesn’t like all the “hero” talk though. He does have access to PPE.

       2. We had a “parade for first responders”. That was not advertised. 4 blocks away from me, at the end of my street, is one of the flagship hospitals for one of the healthcare systems in my city. So, the parade went down my street. All I heard for 15 straight minutes was sirens wailing and what appears to be every. single. police car and fire truck going down my street towards the hospital. Honest to goodness, my husband and I thought that there was either an armed shooter at the hospital or that several babies had been stolen from the maternity ward. I was looking at twitter, turned on the TV to local news stations, looking at the local paper, texting my friends that work at the local tv stations… no one knew what was happening (parade or otherwise).

          I don’t know if the parade was helpful or uplifting for the first responders. All I know is it scared the crap out of me. Had you known about it and been so inclined, it would have been an excellent time to commit a crime at some other part of the city, as every single police car and cop appeared to be on my street.

    5. Yeah, my observation has been that it is difficult sometimes to know concrete things to do in these groups that actually advance what the real ultimate goal is in a quantifiable way, so instead it gets filled with a bunch of feel-good-ideas so they can say they did something.

       Also, I find it ironic that in trying to advance women (assuming that is the goal) we essentially assign women with the task of having to fix the problem (by forming these groups), thus bogging us down with the time suck of having to participate in stuff like this, while our male counterparts get to work unencumbered.

       I don’t have a solution though.

    6. Oh, I’m with you, ‘thanks’ gestures without accompanying signals of value (like…PPE or hazard pay) are the most performative bs there is. I’d push back, even though that itself is emotional labor. Fortune 500 company? Ask what they are doing for women in their own supply chain, maybe.

       1. on my twitter feed I read ‘this month, instead of paying rent, lets all clap for our landlords’.

       2. Agreed. “Thanks” gestures are the equivalent of “thoughts and prayers” with no action.

    7. Ugh, so sorry. That would drive me crazy also.

    8. Ugh, why are these groups always terrible? My previous firm had the following workshops:
       – Fashion – what’s trendy in workwear right now? Featuring our client who is a personal stylist!
       – Flower arrangements – apparently a good way to handle work stress!
       – Make-up: a client who owned her own line did our faces, and we donated makeup/toiletries to a local woman’s shelter.
       – Making sushi (I mean, that was fun, but whatever).
       At some point a great female partner suggested we had a workshop on, you know, gender inequality in big law and women mentoring women, and was told we didn’t do “political” events. I decided I was no longer a part of this group after that.

       1. We run the #IamRemarkable sessions from Google at ours which are all about sharing and claiming your achievements. They’re always popular and well-reviewed. I do agree with you about some of the other stuff.

    9. I love women’s groups in theory, but they always have dumb activities like that.

    10. I used to be in BigLaw and women’s group at my firm was somewhere between useless and anger-inducing. I got crap for not participating, but after I took a cooking class and got an apron that said “[LawFirm] Women’s Leadership Initiative” I was done. Look I like cooking but that is some ridiculous sexist bullshit.
        I’m glad I work somewhere now that doesn’t have this sort of stuff, and also doesn’t give lip service about gender equality/diversity but just does it in practice by hiring women and minorities and “giving” them equal pay and good projects.

18. I’d like to upgrade our super old lumpy armchair for all the hours we are spending home reading in it. DH wants leather. I don’t really care about the fabric. Any recommendations for a super comfy, preferably tall-person friendly armchair I could order at a distance? Thanks!

    1. If you want to spend a ton of money, this one is beautiful and feels amazing in person: https://www.roomandboard.com/catalog/living/chairs/paris-leather-chair-and-ottoman . If I didn’t have kids I’d buy it and the ottoman.

       1. And if you want to spend twice that, get an Eames chair: https://store.hermanmiller.com/living/lounge-chairs-and-ottomans/eames-lounge-chair-and-ottoman/5667.html?lang=en_US

          The real thing is on sale right now, plus there are knockoffs at pretty much every price point.

19. Does anyone have an indoor/outdoor cat? When we moved into our current house, a friendly cat started living under our porch. He is very sweet and loves people so overtime we let him come inside, esp on cold nights. Well, the other day he was outside and I walked out to find him devouring a small rat. This cat cuddles with my kids. I know that’s what cats do…but I cant erase the image of rat blood all over his nose. I really don’t want to bring him in anymore. Another issue is that because he is so friendly, lots of people walk by and pet him all day (we live in a busy, dense city). I have been worried about c-19 exposure, perhaps irrationally. Ok, thanks for reading my rant. I would love any insight from indoor/outdoor cat parents.

    1. OTOH, I have spent the past year killing mice in my house. It is vile nasty work. Rodents are incontinent, which is also vile to clean up. I’m up to 20+ kills and I don’t want to think about it even. You’d let me in your house, no? I’d love to have an outside cat adopt my house (can’t have an inside cat as I’m severely allergic but I am reconsidering). Honor that kitty (or pls send her to me)!

       1. I could have written your post. Kitty’s doing you a service, OP!

    2. Ha, we brought in our outdoor cat a few weeks into the quarantine. Not because of c-19 exposure, but because my 5 year old was spending all day out in the cold just to pet her. The cat showed up in my backyard 3 years ago with her kittens, and I have only seen the occasional dead rodent since (previously rodents would show up periodically). The cat is very sweet and my 5 year old still spends all day petting her, but she refuses to go back outside. Her adult kittens have moved on as well, and now I’m worried that the rodents may come back.

    3. Kindly, neither of these concerns is based in reality. Cats kill rodents. Then they fastidiously clean themselves. No one is catching covid from petting a cat.

    4. My two cats are indoor outdoor. It’s not a big deal. Cats will clean themselves and they do so often. I have one cat that is a killer and while she doesn’t gift me, she kills lizards, birds and little garden snakes. It’s what she does.
       BIG BONUS: they prefer to use the outdoors over their litter boxes.
       If you live in a densely populated place and your cat is popular, I would try to find an outdoor area that’s enclosed to start off with, chip and collar the cat for redundancy if he disappears, and see if you can accept that life outdoors will bring the risk of an untimely death or disappearance. Also get up to date on shots, and flea meds. My cats are very shy around strangers and live in a neighborhood where traffic is pretty low, so I don’t worry as much about losing them.

    5. In the U.K. it’s pretty normal to have indoor/outdoor cats. Ours have always brought dead things inside or eaten them in the garden. We make sure to worm them regularly and get them the proper vaccinations each year. I’d strongly suggest if you are letting your children pet them to make it ‘your’ cat and if you haven’t already start a worming program and see if vets are doing vaccinations in your state currently. If you aren’t able to do this and the cat is friendly it might be kinder to reach out to a rescue who can find them a home. Cats make wonderful pets and it’s great you have let this one in when it’s cold.

    6. Cats are incredibly clean animals. Kitty will clean itself and you and your kids will be fine.

    7. When we moved into our new house, we acquired Backyard Cat, a very sweet ear-clipped stray who lives on our porch. We already had two indoor kitties who would not take kindly to Backyard Cat becoming Indoor and Backyard Cat, so I set up Backyard Cat with a heating pad (specifically made for pets, only heats when she is on it) and a little house. We aren’t anywhere too cold and she seems pleased with the set up, so that may be an option if you want to revoke indoor privileges. One additional thing–if the cat is coming indoors (or even if it isn’t), you should consider treating it (if you aren’t already) with a heartworm, flea and tick preventative. They are super easy to apply and you can get from your vet without taking the cat in (Backyard Cat is not about carriers).

20. Continuing the Alison Roman/Chrissy Teigen/Marie Kondo thread from yesterday – what are people’s thoughts on the apology Alison issued last night?

    1. It was about as well-crafted an apology as I’ve ever seen, and Chrissy was gracious in accepting it. The main issue I saw raised was that the apology was too good to be real, and that it had to have been drafted by a PR pro. That may be true, but I don’t know what else she could have said. What matters now is not the words but how she acts going forward.

    2. Chrissy Teigen is an attention seeking nobody in her own right. The only time you ever hear from her is when she is “fighting back on social media”. It’s her only way of getting attention. She should get off social media and give everyone a break. Alison should not have apologized. She is entitled to her opinion.

       1. I find Chrissy entertaining and relatable in this crazy time.

       2. I’d rather support WOC creators than Alison Roman who is so soaked in white privilege she somehow didn’t even realize she targeted two APA women amongst the MANY, MANY countless white women and white men who have cooking lines and monetized their creations. She can spend time educating herself but I’m not putting in the labor to do her work for her. She can get right outta here.

       3. Okay, Alison.

          1. Exactly.

       4. Clearly you don’t follow her on Twitter if you think that’s the only time you “hear from her.” She is hilarious and posts about everything from food to her kids to Animal Crossing to pop culture.

       5. Sure, Alison.

          CT is annoying but she’s not racist trash like AR.

    3. It sounds heartfelt but I doubt the sincerity given the previous faux apologies. Plus, there was nothing about the “please to buy” language that I found very insulting in the original piece. I don’t buy her lame explanation about it being an inside joke about an Eastern European cookbook–how is that even relevant in the context of an infomercial by Marie Kondo? She needs some cultural sensitivity training for sure.

       1. +1

       2. Ya I agree with this. I thought it was a good apology but I’ve seen her on IG lives/heard her on podcasts before this happened and she just strikes me as a bit mean girl-ish. I hope she does better – I’m about her age and have been working on being more kind. I think a lot of us got stuck in this idea that catty/mean = funny/cool and it’s been some work to deprogram that. I think she needs to do the same work but I appreciate how comprehensive her apology was.

          1. I’m in my late 30s. When we were young, there was a lot of pushback against the “girls are sugar and spice” idea, because there was also a tremendous amount of pressure to be “nice.” (In fact, I still face it in the South from older generations, and it makes me want to curse like a drunken sailor.) So we pushed back with sarcasm and sometimes, snottiness and meanness. It is challenging as an adult to erase the programming from “nice” without being rude; the middle ground was never taught.

             1. The middle ground is not to be racist trash. AR can be as assertive as she wants. She just needs to avoid being ignorant, racist, and tearing other people down while she does it. Talk about herself and stop tearing other people down.

    4. I thought it read like it was written by a PR person. I’m sure she’s sincerely sorry! I’m also sure I still think she sounds like a pretty terrible person! In her late 30s. With a huge platform. Who already wrote for buzzfeed and the nytimes. Not ready to give her another chance here. There are a lot of other people out there, including Chrissy Teigan or other WOC!, I’d rather support!

       1. It’s also annoying that it took two days of people calling her out for her to realize that what she had done was problematic. She initially just doubled down on what she’d said! If you’re in your late 30s and that’s what it takes for you to be introspective, you’re not a person I really care to support.

    5. I think she’s not sorry and is making nice. Her comments weren’t nice things to say, but they weren’t horrifying either. It’s a great way for her to get PR. Like I maybe get why she may have been critical of Chrissy Teigen, who is not really a chef, but if you’re saying anything about her online you know she’s going to make a big deal out of it because it is central to her image. It seemed calculated, like other Twitter celebrity beefs.

    6. It was a very well-crafted apology, but after the initial doubling down on Sunday, it’s hard to swallow as genuine. Something about the “baby’s first internet backlash” tweet just really rubbed me the wrong way. Chrissy Teigen is being incredibly gracious and I admire her a lot for that. I especially liked what she said about how as she got more famous she learned she couldn’t say everything out loud but then that actually made her examine what she was thinking and how it helped her change.

    7. Sheesh if I were just a tiny bit more cynical than I am, I’d suspect Alison and Chrissy cooked the whole thing up for publicity.

       1. Disagree. AR also trashed Marie Kondo who has a much more limited social media profile. AR is garbage. CT may be annoying but I don’t buy that she cooked up a strategy based on trashing herself and another WOC when there are a million garbage male chefs that AR could have gone after and gotten just as much publicity.

       2. If you followed Chrissy’s social media before this you wouldn’t think so. She’s pretty let it all hang out.

       3. I do follow Chrissy and I don’t really think it, if only because it would be such a d!ck move to involve Marie Kondo.

          But I almost do.

21. Would you move…next door?

    I moved into a one bedroom apartment last fall where my desk is in my living room area (kitchen and living room are one long, open room). This didn’t really bother me until the lockdown, but now it’s driving me crazy. I have moved my furniture around multiple times trying to come up with a good figuration and I’m always “meh” about it.

    Last night, I pulled up the floor plan on my complex website to try to think of another idea. In doing this, I discovered that my next door neighbor is moving out in June. She has a 2 bedroom corner unit with a lovely corner balcony (I don’t have a balcony at all). I’m really tempted to move! I’d have a home office, a second bathroom for the litter box (cat owners will feel me), and an outdoor space which I’ve longed for during these times. It’s $250 more. I should add that my office is closed through at least Labor Day, I WFH 2x a week anyway under normal circumstances, and I plan on staying in this apartment complex for at least another year, possibly 2.

    It’s more than I would normally want to spend, but I’m wondering if it’s worth it for my mental health during these times. There’s the other factor about how to move, but I think I would just do it myself…my furniture isn’t particularly heavy. I’d literally just be dragging it one door down. Then the cleanliness factor…is just have to really deep clean the place before moving in (more than usual for corona reasons, of course.)

    What do you all think?

    1. If you can safely afford it, I would do it. It seems like a big added benefit with the hassles minimized. I would just check the legalities and make sure you aren’t being roped into extra time on your lease if you don’t want that.

       1. +1 sounds like a great set-up and if you have the money, do it!

    2. Worth every penny. Move! (This is assuming you’re fairly stable financially, don’t anticipate being laid off, and have an emergency fund).

    3. Wow, this sounds great! I’d hop on it for sure.

    4. If you can afford it, this sounds like an idea solution!

    5. I’d move in a hot second.

    6. I bought my first place across the street from the apartment I was renting, so yep! Just FYI, it really confused my movers who came with a giant truck

       1. Which didn’t answer your question, but I’d still hire movers and save your back

    7. I’d definitely do it.

    8. I think there is considerable merit in having another space for a home office, and having the ability to separate home life from work life more easily. To that end, I wonder if – for suburban houses at least – having *2* home offices is going to become the next Big Trend in housing. Even small nooks that can serve as offices.

    9. Yes, I once moved from a one to a two bedroom apartment in the same complex. The extra space (plus balcony!) makes it totally worth it.

    10. I once moved across the hall to get a better apartment. It was the easiest move ever and was totally worth it.

    11. Yes I would. And I don’t think you need to do any corona specific deep cleaning beyond wiping surfaces down with bleach. My office is going to be WFH for months and I’ll probably never go back to 5 days a week in the office. I’d love extra space and a balcony.

    12. Yes, assuming the $250 isn’t a budget-buster for you. I once moved down the hall for a better apartment (better layout plus a porch) and it was the easiest move ever. No running up and down stairs, easy to make multiple trips in an hour, etc.
        Also, depending on how many other vacancies there are in your building, you may be able to negotiate a lower rent. Have a friend call to inquire and see if they are offering any concessions, like one month free or a slightly lower monthly rate.

    13. We sold our house and moved about 300m away. It was fantastic. We already know and like the neighbourhood. We were able to monitor renovations at the new house easily while living in the old house (including shoveling the driveway when it snowed). We could move half our stuff while the old house was staged and sold and then move th other half. It felt a bit weird to tell people we were moving down the road, but it was an ideal move.

    14. Go for it!

    15. Thank you for all of the thoughtful replies! I’m seriously considering it! Just talked through the numbers with the front office and it’s $240 more/month (not $250). There is a $500 transfer fee though (ugh). Any wording ideas for how to get out of that one? They waived my initial move-in fees because I work for a preferred employer…all I can think of is to ask if that would apply here too. The fee isn’t a deal breaker but it can’t hurt to try to get out of it.

        1. I’d ask for it to be waived. Try to talk to a person live (video or phone) to ask them what the fee is for and negotiate that it’s going to be hard to find a tenant anyway during covid and wouldn’t it be nicer for them to fill the $240 higher rent unit while yours is empty and searching than the other way around? Bring up your tenancy and long term on time payment if you can honestly say that.

           1. Yeah, just ask. If I were the manager I’d totally waive it.

        2. Trust me, you are in a great negotiating position here. You’re trying to step into their more costly unit right now in the weirdest market conditions ever. Ask them to waive the fee and see what they’ll do on the $240.

    16. I’ve moved three doors down once! If you’d consider a bigger place anyway, then the proximity is only a plus in terms of moving effort! I’d still get someone to help for the big items (maybe just a good friend who has been mostly physical distancing), but do boxes myself. For cleaning, I’d probably let the apartment sit vacant for 2-3 days (virus shouldn’t survive on surfaces that long) and then just do a normal clean.

    17. Sometimes the annual rent increase for current tenants is less than the rent set for new tenants. I would check with the management company/landlord to see if there is any way that you could get the benefit of this while staying within the building. It might lower the difference in rent enough to make this a an easy decision.

    18. Sounds nice. If you do decide to do it, take the move seriously–pack as if you are moving across town, not across the hall. My worst move of my life (and I moved a lot from 18 – 40) was when I moved across the street. I packed in a totally slapdash way (“it’s just across the street! Easiest move ever!”) and ended up carrying random lamps back and forth for what seemed like DAYS. Spectacularly dumb on my part.

    19. We moved downstairs once, and once down the block. Moving within a building is so much easier than moving, especially if you can arrange some overlap time so you can do it gradually. I would ask the building if they could use the transfer fee to let you retain access to both units for a period of time without paying double rent. Also, if it sits vacant for a couple days that probably takes care of any germ concerns.

        This is probably obvious but how secure is your job? If you have any concerns I would think twice before increasing fixed expenses.

    20. Chiming in that I have also done this kind of move across an apartment complex to escape a pesky downstairs neighbor. Was definitely worth it for mental health reasons and the land lord let me move my stuff gradually over the course of a couple weeks on a borrowed handcart, so it was not as much of a pain as moving has been in other circumstances. Under your set of facts, I say go for it!

    21. DO IT

    22. DO IT. I moved from a 1BR to a townhouse with a loft bedroom in my same building about a year ago, and it has been a phenomenally good decision. The extra space, half-bath, storage, and outdoor space have all markedly improved my life. It was also the easiest move of my entire life. I would not hesitate to do that. A 2BR is just so much better.

    23. Hi,
        I’m a law student (& 28). With half of our dorm vacated and ongoing construction, they opened a room for me down the hall to use as a study. It was great to finally not work in my “studio” (dorm room). I would definitely go for it if I were you.

        Plus, post covid, you could always turn it into one larger apartment. That seems to be the trend in NYC home rennovations.

22. Would it be totally insane to get my car detailed right now? I’ve been planning to try one of those “come to your house” cleaners for a while. My genius husband left the windows open for three days straight, so pollen has made the dash fuzzy. I could leave it in the driveway and not physically interact with the person at all, plus I’m WFH so I could let it sit untouched for at least a week afterwards.

    1. Not crazy, get it done.

    2. I would totally do that, and I think you should: those guys are probably suffering right now and could really use the cash. If you want to do it, and it can be done super safely, then do it for them!

    3. I think it would be absolutely fine. I wouldn’t even bother letting it sit untouched for a week.

    4. I’d do it and tip extra! Their business may be suffering right now and sounds like your car actually needs it.

    5. That sounds pretty safe! I would avoid touching the car for a couple days both before (for the safety of the detailer) and after the appointment. I am currently trying to figure out how to safely get my snow tires off my car and not feeling as great about the options.

       1. Near us, the dealers are doing pick up from your residence and drop back off. We did snow tires and an oil change and they threw in a cleaning. We then let it sit as long as we could before using it.

    6. I did it and had to drive it to/from the site. I wore gloves and a mask to drive home and then washed hands thoroughly and let the car sit after. I wouldn’t hesitate to do it using an at-home service.

23. Saw this piece in the Atlantic yesterday and it reminded me of a lot of what we talk about on this board – “making policies for the people you have, not the ideal population”. Thought it made good points:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/quarantine-fatigue-real-and-shaming-people-wont-help/611482/

    1. Thanks for posting, this makes a lot of sense to me. The comparison to s*x ed really resonated.

    2. Totally agree, this article makes great points. The sustainable harm reduction idea is where I *thought* the western world was heading in March… feel like I still have whiplash on that one.
       Someone on this board made a comment about organizational psychology a few weeks ago that seemed really relevant too, about how individuals tend to fall back on their own judgment if they don’t understand the leadership’s goals, or think they are unrealistic or out of touch, etc.

       1. I must have missed the comment from your second paragraph a few weeks ago but that totally makes sense to me. And is completely true based on my social(ly distant) circle the past few weeks, all of us have fallen back on what we think is “right” regardless of what the government is allowing/not allowing.

    3. I’m torn on this. Sure, you want to be realistic and outcome focused. On the other hand, this still comes down individuals making choices, it’s not like we’re dealing with something undeniable like gravity. They could make safer choices, but they don’t.
       It reminds me of a podcast (probably a Planet Money) on car manufacturers making two different dashboard designs for the American and the European market. Why? Because the regulators are setting different criteria for crash tests that cars need to pass. The American regulators work under the assumption that 50% of people do not comply with seat belt laws. I find that baffling.

       1. It is totally true though — I am amazed by the “ejection of unrestrained passenger” accidents in my city. It is still, sadly, a thing, especially with kids it seems. I get grownups making bad decisions, but for kids to be unrestrained just seems criminal.

       2. “On the other hand, this still comes down individuals making choices, it’s not like we’re dealing with something undeniable like gravity. They could make safer choices, but they don’t.”

          Right. They don’t make safer choices. Known fact. So we need to deal with that reality, and not the one we wish we were living in.

          1. There is a balance though. Society changes over time. People used to smoke all the time. Doctors first scoffed at the idea that they should wash their hands between treating patients. We learn and we change. And that’s just on the health front.
             And I don’t want to demonize every person breaking quarantine rules. But there is a wide spectrum from ‘I just really want connection with another person/my parents/my friend’ and ‘I am going to protest with 100 other people, carrying guns and hassling public servants’.

             1. I think that was the entire point of the article though, right? Instead of making it an all or nothing, realize that some people really want to connect with another person so we should educate/suggest that those who are going to do that do so outside, don’t share food, wear masks, don’t hug, etc.

                To be honest, I don’t think anything will get through to people who feel the appropriate reaction to their barber being closed is to storm the state capital with guns though.

             2. yeah, that’s true. But whyyy are they this way?

             3. Poor education combined with the ingrained sense of entitlement that being American entitles them to a bunch of stuff. Knowing that they’ll be worse off economically than their parent’s generation. Not having the skills or resources to succeed in the economy that we live in not the one that allowed their parents to get a job at 18 and keep it until retirement, buy a modest house and raise their children. Politicians that don’t admit their own contributions to creating the world that resulted in this so conveniently blame outsiders/others as a scapegoat to both detract from their own actions and also to allow voters to feel morally superior to someone else even when their lives are objectively not good? Not having a sense of identity that they can take pride in other than American or gun owner so they double down on that? I don’t know, just guesses.

             4. Anti-intellectualism. American society celebrates the jock who gets the girl and not the nerd. How many discussions about schooling focus on how the students can’t have things like prom / graduation, not what the students aren’t learning because of the new schooling methods.

          2. I totally do not get lobbing one in on “Americans.” It’s not like half of Europe doesn’t have or hasn’t had a debt crisis. And the ones who haven’t seem to be the ones funding what they have to know is dodgy borrowing. I guess you can always safely kick Americans? Because somehow we have an exclusive on entitlement and believing that somehow math doesn’t apply to them?

             1. There are countries that are close to the US in terms of economic challenges, inequality, demographic, ethnic and cultural heterogeneity, healthcare inequality, or gun violence. But the US has them all in one country, while (and this is not only Trump supporters by far) swearing that this is the best nation in the world to live in, often while never having lived anywhere else. It’s a combination of all the things that are broken (and of course no country on this planet doesn’t have a long list of things that are wrong) and the outsized cultural dominance of the US, claiming to be exceptional and an example for other countries that makes them a convenient target.
                I haven’t heard of any other country where a store patron was both entitled enough to get outraged about being asked to wear a mask, and able to send back her family member to shoot the security guard. It took ONE bad shooting in New Zealand, and a handful of school shootings in the 90ies in Australia (both self identified New-world frontier places originating from the Commonwealth) to get tough on guns.

             2. to add another, less snarky reason: we are almost always discussing news from a US perspective here. Even if it’s a global pandemic, it’s often the specific development in the US that we’re discussing here. It’s completely fair to say ‘you know, it’s going differently for 95% of the world population’ when we’re discussing whether the US is handling things the ideal way, the only realistic way, or something in between.

             3. I get that many people in the US have not lived elsewhere, but we are the children and grandchildren of immigrants. Plus, many of those people have also been in the military and have been elsewhere in the US and overseas. OTOH, my company has many foreign offices and while I know many people in Europe travel a bit, their countries are spaced out like our states are (and no one gets all high and mighty about traveling 8 hours away while still being in the same state here). I think, bless everyone’s heart, that people are seeing what they want to see.

    4. I really liked that article, too.

24. Aside from having nowhere to wear a long pleated skirt for the foreseeable future, do you think this would look good on someone (me) with a relatively small waist and wide hips? I feel like the pleats wouldn’t be very flattering.

    1. I’m very hourglassy, and this style makes me look dumpy AF. IMO it’s best on tall, reedy figures.

       1. +1 from a fellow hourglass-pear. I’ve tried this thinking I would look like a 50’s movie star in the New Look, swanning about in kitten heels. Nope nope nope nope nope frump city. Steer clear.

          1. Yeah same. I often think that look would be cute on my hourglass figure but it isn’t. They were all wearing serious shapewear and I am not!

    2. I’m an hourglass and have one skirt like this. It needs to have a high waist, that’s at your actual waist, and not be this long IMO. I’d shoot for the hem at the bottom of your kneecap.

       1. This. I’m an hourglass and love my pleated skirt but it’s high waisted and ends just below my knee. The calf length is awful. Also, I love wearing easy skirts instead of sweatpants while WFH, so you might get more use out of it than you think.

    3. I can’t comment on the merits of the question (different body type), but I will say that I am wearing a long pleated skirt today! In my office. All by myself. Where nobody can see me.
       I

    4. This look doesn’t work for me, because it makes the pudgy bit below my waist stand out. What works surprisingly well, though, is the shape of the Zara white spotty dress from last summer (I dyed mine olive green). I’m tall and it hits me just above mid calf.

    5. I used to have a skirt like this. I thought it looked fine until I caught myself walking toward a full mirrored wall. Talk about thunder thighs. I agree, this style is only for Audrey Hepburn.

25. Can any ladies in VHCOL areas speak to how much money is needed to be relatively comfortable, including buying a home? I know it’s different for everyone, but just looking for ballpark figures. I’ve been approached about applying for a job in the Bay area that would probably pay about 300K in total comp, with opportunity for more down the line. We currently live in a HCOL area, HHI about 500K (most of that my DH’s). My DH would likely to be able to find a new, similarly well paying job if we moved, but I just get very nervous about living in a part of the country with such high COL, especially in this economy. To the extent it matters, I really hate my current job and haven’t had any luck finding a new one in this area, so that is part of the reason we’re considering a move. We have one kid, age 2, and another one on the way. Would love any thoughts from the hive. TIA!

    1. We have a comfortable HHI in the Bay Area (although less combined than your own compensation) and can easily meet our needs and most of our wants, but we rent, do not have kids, and will not be buying a home here. Your question really depends on where exactly you will be living and what kind of lifestyle you lead. If you want to live in SF proper, it’s going to be very, very hard to own a home. If you’re talking about far-flung suburbs, it’s still going to be hard but you’ll get more space for your 1.5M+ home price. Happy to talk specific areas if you want.

       1. It’s actually not that hard to buy in SF proper if your combined income is almost $1M. The problem is that most people don’t have incomes that high.

          1. She said their combined was $500K?

             1. She said most of the $500k was DH and she was getting a big raise to $300k with the potential for more – I assumed they’d be starting around $700k and quickly going up from there (assuming her DH could find a comparable job, which is maybe not a given).

             2. Ah, right.

          2. I agree, with $1M we’d be fine. My best guess is that we’d be looking at a HHI of $600K, maybe slightly more depending on what kind of job DH got, which obviously doesn’t go as far as $1M.

       2. All of my friends that live in SF proper with kids send their kids to private schools, which are not cheap, another thing to consider. Obviously there are kids there that attend the public schools, but if that was the plan getting familiar with the lottery system & what that would potentially mean logistically for a dual working family shuttling kids all around the city would definitely need to be looked into.

    2. Ummm. You’re a very wealthy family. Looking at getting even richer. Yes. You have plenty enough money.

       1. Honestly, $500K in the Bay Area is not what it is elsewhere. They won’t “struggle” but they won’t be nearly as well off as they would be elsewhere.

          1. I cannot with this.

             1. You cannot until you come live in the Bay Area for a year or so. Salaries are higher here because costs are (much) higher here.

          2. Yeah 500K gets you a very mediocre 3 bedroom apartment that’s still a 30 minute commute to the financial district.

    3. If you care about schools and want to be in the “good” suburbs (Palo Alto, Burlingame, certain parts of Mountain View, Cupertino) you’re probably looking at ~$1.5-2M for a larger townhouse, $2.5-3M for a single family home depending on size and how nice it is. If you have a HHI around $800(?)k, that seems very doable even if you’re cautious about taking on a large mortgage. I used to live in the Bay Area and most of my friends there make significantly less than you and own homes in those suburbs. Housing is really the only thing there that is way more expensive in the Bay Area than elsewhere. Most other things (including daycare) are probably priced pretty comparably to the DC area. I moved to a place that is way LCOL than DC and I haven’t really noticed significant savings in anything except housing. Some things, like a cleaning service and organic food, are actually more expensive in my LCOL area than they were in the Bay Area (presumably because there is less demand for them).

       1. Oops I don’t know why I thought you were in DC (maybe I read DH as DC). Either way, if you’re coming from any major US city I don’t think you’ll be shocked by any costs in the Bay Area, except housing.

       2. thanks, this is consistent with my friends’ experiences (though most of them bought during the recession). We definitely can’t afford $2.5M – we currently own two homes, our residence and a rental property, and even selling both we’d maybe be able to afford about $2M (which I fully realize is a lot of money). It does seem like housing costs are the main barrier to entry in the Bay area, but neither of us wants to rent long term so that’s what is giving us/me pause. We definitely don’t want to be house poor and we need to save adequately, which we’re currently able to do but might not be if we move up there.

          1. There’s plenty you could buy in the Bay Area on a $1.5-2M budget that would be fine for a family of four. I wouldn’t worry about that so much, especially given your incomes. IMO, the toughest thing about living there is that unless you have work/daycare/home all inside a very small radius you will spend a miserably large portion of your life commuting, and there’s no way to fix that with money (unless you’re rich enough for helicopters I guess, but those have safety issues). You should try to live as close to your job as you can, but then your DH will likely be somewhat limited in his own job search, and you will be limited should you want to change jobs (unless you want to sell your house). People who don’t live there look at SF and Palo Alto and see that they’re 35 miles apart and think “oh, that’s no big deal.” But it can easily be 2 hours one way with traffic, and public transit is terrible.

             1. +1 I live in the East Bay. My husband is in the middle of a job search. We collectively regard any job opportunity for him that comes up in the South Bay the same as if it came up in, like, LA or something – i.e. a nonstarter, or one that would require us to move. I know there are people that do that commute, bless them, but not for us. I’d rather leave the area altogether if that’s what it got to.

       3. +1 This is doable. And the career opportunities here are so much stronger than other parts of the country, so you are less likely to stall out due to limited options.

          1. thanks, the career opportunities (both in terms of advancement and $$$) long term are what is pushing me to consider it seriously. I’m not sure I will get those opportunities in our current city so it may be worth the crazy high housing costs.

       4. I’d disagree a bit here. I used to live in the Bay Area, and actually now live in DC – I’d say housing is a significant difference, but beyond that, if you live in DC (or other VHCOL areas) you can choose to add a bit to your commute for a reasonable housing cost and a lot more space. But it’s still manageable. In the Bay Area, that’s a lot harder to do – you have to go really far out for things to get more reasonable.

          1. I fully agree, but I consider that a part of housing. What I meant was you won’t be shocked by the price of groceries/daycare/movie tickets/etc. It is the housing (and relatedly, the commuting) part of life in the Bay Area that is so difficult, not the cost of other miscellaneous items.

             1. I don’t know. Our minimum wage is either at or fast approaching $15 an hour depending on the city. I personally think that has had some meaningful implications for how much especially food at restaurants etc. is. This might be different than when you used to live here, I believe it has been a rapid escalation.

             2. I go back regularly so I have a good sense of current prices for food and entertainment. In-N-Out is still cheaper (and tastier :)) than any fast food in my LCOL city. And honestly, for someone with an income north of $500k, the difference between a $12 hamburger and a $10 hamburger is not significant. But the difference between a $1M house and a $2M house is.

    4. So much of this depends on your actual situation. I live in NYC so not a direct comparison but honestly in your situation I would not move. The difference in cost of living between HCOL and VHCOL is much larger than I would have anticipated, particularly with respect to childcare. I would do some serious digging into what childcare/daycare/etc. will look like with two kids compared to what you’re paying for/would have to pay for now. And also availability of childcare, even if you’re willing to pay for it. All of this is compounded by the fact that no one knows what the next few years are going to look like but I am personally anticipating needing to spend a whole lot more money than we currently are (which is already more than a mortgage for a 5 bedroom house in most of the country) as we deal with future shutdowns, etc. All of this will be exponentially more expensive in a VHCOL area. I’d also be worried that as more businesses shift to WFH, that they’ll realize they can hire outside of the VHCOL area and pay a lot less.

    5. Depends on where in the Bay Area. You can get a lot more for your 1.5M outside of SF proper. Also, if you can live and work in the same part of the bay, that is a much better/different life than if you have to live (for example) in the South Bay for the schools and commute to SF for work.

    6. What part of the Bay Area is your job? There are big differences in the North Bay, East Bay, South Bay, SF proper… commute-wise, cost wise. There are some very nice suburbs in the North Bay & East Bay that may be less than the South Bay (still $1.5 mm or more for a good house, but not quite South Bay levels), but if your job is in the South Bay I would personally find that commute from either of those places a non-starter.

       1. The position would allow me to work either in the city proper or in the South Bay, so I was initially thinking San Mateo/Belmont, etc., where we could (maybe) get a small home for around $2M. Of course this would all depend on where DH could get a job as well.

          1. Got it. If you chose working in the city proper, that would open up more of the other areas to live in, but then you’d also have to factor in public transport options or paying daily for SF parking. If you choose to work in the South Bay then you probably want to stick to the South Bay, and presumably just be able to drive and park easily to the job location would be a nice bonus. (And also commuting to the city from the places you mentioned if you eventually went that route is at least possible).

          2. yeah, really, really think about your commute. We live in Berkeley, in a lovely rental in a nice neighborhood, and can walk to work. That’s a luxury which is worth it to us. We pay quite a bit of our HHI (less than $200k) on rent, but otherwise are comfortable on a minimalist lifestyle. No kids. We don’t expect to ever buy on the current market (and housing prices did not significantly drop in the 2008 recession). I am also not keen on tying up a lot of my net worth in an earthquake risk.

             1. I have lived in Berkeley since 1993 and have never managed to work here. I envy you!

                (Also we have EQ insurance and just consider it a cost of living here)

             2. Frankly, I don’t trust insurances to pay when the time comes. Either they go bankrupt with too many claims, or they delay payment inevitably if there are regular aftershocks (happened both after big earthquakes in Italy and New Zealand), or they just start not insuring customers anymore (a lot of owners in my neighborhood have gotten their homeowners insurance cancelled in the last years, because they don’t want to insure the fire risk anymore. Not increasing premiums, just cancelling the contract).
                But it’s all moot because I’d have to go house poor buying on this HHI.

             3. I have it through the California Earthquake Authority. I know exactly how the program was built and I personally, as an actuary, find the risk of default extremely remote.

          3. We live in San Mateo with two young kids and it’s great. We are currently renting a house (that probably could be sold for upwards of $3M) but you can get a place here for around $2M. It won’t be the biggest house but it won’t be tiny either. Baywood is a good public elementary school. Belmont is also a good option, as is Foster City. I have lived in several other HCOL areas and the biggest difference here is the housing. Childcare/day care tuition is actually cheaper here for us than it was on the east coast. Groceries are the same, if not a bit cheaper here.

             If you’d like to chat further over email, leave a burner email and I’ll write to you. Good luck!

    7. This is impossible to answer because everyone has different standards of “relatively comfortable,” and every VHCOL is different. My idea of what is comfortable is clearly out of line with many posters on this board. Our HHI is under $200K and we live in NYC with one child and consider ourselves pretty well off.

       1. Interesting, do you mind sharing (ballpark) on what you pay for childcare? That’s the real kicker for us in NYC in feeling “not comfortable”

          1. My son is in elementary school and my husband is a teacher, so we only really have to deal with afterschool and some random professional days and half-days camps. Spring break and Summer camps are optional but we usually do some. I’m honestly not sure what we are paying for afterschool in total, but I know we generally go for a cheaper option – we’re not doing the forest school with organic bread and well-trained teachers, we’re going with blase teenagers who can keep our child alive and provide processed snacks. Also, we only have 1 child – that is key. When our son was in daycare we used a small “in-home” place that was about $7/hr for 50+ hrs a week. For preschool we did a coop that was somewhat cheaper than a lot in our area. We live a ways out in Brooklyn. We don’t have a cleaner and generally outsource very little, partly because my husband likes fixing things.

             1. Thanks for the response! And that makes complete sense. I think the cost to be comfortable also ties into what careers people have, to be honest. Jobs that pay more tend to also demand more hours, etc. This isn’t a woe-is-me comment, I totally get the fortunate situation we are in, but part of the reason my job pays me so much is that they expect me to be paying top dollar to be living close to the office, to have 70+ hours of childcare/week and to outsource things like cleaning/laundry because they demand those hours from me. It’s a tradeoff I’m completely aware of but my husband and I could not have the jobs we have on a lower salary unless we were ok with basically never seeing our children.

    8. With an income of 800k? You’ll be more than fine. Plenty of people live in that area on much much less. My sister is a SAHM and her husband is an engineer that makes about $120k. They live in the bay area in a condo with finishes comparable to what I had in my first apartment in rural Georgia (i.e. not fancy) and are just very, very careful with money. They have two kids- one goes to public school, and the other isn’t old enough for school yet. I think what you need to figure out is how you want your lifestyle to look and go from there. If you “need” to have a house rather than a condo, if you need to send your kids to private school, if you need to live in a certain particular suburb or in the city itself, etc.

26. So my 40th birthday is coming up in July and obviously I won’t be having the big party I had planned. Now I’m trying to think of creative ways to celebrate and acknowledge the day without making people feel uncomfortable, stressed, or unsafe. Anyone have any ideas or tried/attended any virtual or creative parties lately that were fun and felt genuine, warm and festive?

    Some ideas friends have suggested include:

    A Zoom toast with friends from around the world, just for like 15 min to see everyone’s faces. The idea of a Zoom party stresses me out because I don’t think video calls lend themselves well to group socializing. Any Zoom parties I’ve attended with more than like, six people have kind of devolved.
    Pros: I like this b/c it really leans into the whole virtual lifestyle deal and it turns a negative (can’t get together in person) to a positive (but I can see my friends who are thousands of miles away! and I never would have thought to include them in my party otherwise). Cons: Eh, it’s Zoom.

    A very long walk in which I send out the route beforehand and ask people to join me for a portion of it (masked, distancing, outside).
    Pros: get outside. Get quality 1-on-1 time with people. Cons: doesn’t feel that celebratory…

    A picnic with a very small group in my courtyard. Pros: courtyard is huge, could have food delivered and easily stay socially distant. Cons: Still involves elements of stress and uncertainty. Don’t want to make people feel uncomfortable or unsafe in any way.

    Other ideas? July is just far off enough that it’s hard to know what would feel safe or appropriate.

    1. My neighbor kids sort of “held court” in their front yard and had folks drop by and talk from a distance. There was lots of honking and yelling. Maybe that sort of thing, together with lots of celebratory accouterments — balloons, single serve champagne bottles set out enough away, music, streamers, etc? This is easier if you don’t live in a super urban area but I can see it working most places.

       1. We went to something like this and it was scary. People would not maintain their distance and actually followed us when we tried to back away.

          1. Hmm. I’m the poster from 11:32. This is a good point — some of my other neighbors do socially distanced happy hours, where they ostensibly all stand 6 feet from one another, but there’s lots of leaning in for pours and not actually staying that far away. So, maybe this is only appropriate if you’ve got fastidious friends.

    2. Are you a child sad about missing a birthday party? You can celebrate 41. I too turn 40 in July — get yourself a present and cake and be done. No way would I join someone’s picnic no matter how it’s set up. Nor would I join a walk as it’s shows you’re acting like a baby who MUST have people recognize her birthday. So zoom I guess.

       1. Don’t be a jerk. What’s wrong with you?

       2. What a strange and mean response!

          1. Seriously. I don’t think of my friends that want to celebrate their birthdays in some way as “babies”.

       3. Yikes! How incredibly mean!

       4. This is the type of uncalled for comment that people are harping on above. That’s great for you, but maybe not what the OP wants. And that’s great. Don’t come to her party/zoom/drive by.

          OP, I don’t have any great suggestions, other than saying maybe wait another month and see where things are. I turn 40 this summer too and have had a significant health issue in the last year that makes me feel really glad that I am here still. I haven’t figured out what I am doing yet, but you can bet your butt I’m celebrating it and I don’t think I’m a petulant child for wanting to. And you can bet I will also be celebrating 41 or 42 or whatever age it is when socializing is no longer distant.

          1. OP here: happy early 40th birthday to you! :) We will figure out a way to celebrate meaningfully and safely…

             …and whenever this pandemic is over, we can throw ALL THE PARTIES!

       5. Get some therapy, Anonymous. People celebrate their birthdays.

       6. Maybe the posters above who said the comments here have gotten meaner have a point after all!

    3. I like the walk idea. It seems like something people can join easily, and stay as far away as they want to. Idk why other posters are being so negative about it – please celebrate your birthday, and plenty of reasonable people have actually managed to stay 6 feet away from each other while still socializing

    4. I don’t think you’re going to get a modified “party” or celebration that feels anything like a real party. A walk or social distance picnic just sounds stressful and ultimately unsatisfying. I suggest switching gears and finding other ways to make the day meaningful and special. Instead of zooming with multiple people at once, how about scheduling multiple calls either 1 on 1 or with small groups (2-3)? That way the convos you do have will be more meaningful for both parties and you don’t have to deal with awkward zoom group dynamics.

       1. +1 – I agree with this.

          First, I don’t think you’re childish or a baby for wanting to celebrate a milestone birthday! If I were your friend, I would totally want to do something celebratory with you – esp in light of the quarantine, and I am sure your friends will want to find a way to celebrate with you.

          With that said, I would do what the poster above said – multiple small things to make the day special, because I don’t think a big zoom call or walk is going to really be satisfying. If it were me, I would get myself a nice bottle of champagne and a charcuterie board, set myself up on my patio, and have a schedule of 1-on-1 zoom calls with friends!

          1. The 1-on-1 calls with champagne/charcuterie is a great idea!

    5. I would have a small gathering of close friends where you have things set up for de-facto social distancing. For example, I’d plop 10 adirondak chairs very far apart and invite 9-10 friends over. I would not make things extra boozy. I would consider food if it could be done in a way that is comfortable to all: single serve items (no communal tables or food). or heck, BYO meal. Cupcakes not cake.

       If you want a big party to see everyone, send a save the date now for the winter or fall.

    6. I would have a very small gathering. Public health officials are already okay-ing them in my state and by July it almost certainly will be fine. Obviously, this depends on the situation where you live and your risk tolerance and the risk tolerance of your friends, but it’s where I would start with planning. But, I wouldn’t really start planning in the sense of making decisions until much closer to that date.

       1. yesterday someone shared that Erin Bromage post, which illustrated that birthday parties or indoor parties in general are some of the worst offenders for spreading the virus.

          For an outdoor idea, you could have a trunk party – go to an empty parking lot, and each person sits in their own trunk to chat and eat. also- you could do a smaller zoom thing just with the people who do not live locally and then a socially distant outdoor something with local people

          1. What’s the (safety) difference between having people in your backyard socially distant, and meeting people in a parking lot socially distant?

             1. There isn’t one, if you’re truly keeping the same distances in both places. The virus doesn’t care where you are.

          2. I walk my dog every weekend in an industrial park in a suburb. There’s a group of 4-5 friends that take over one of the parking lots sitting on the back gates of their SUVs this way. They’re always laughing and look like they are having a blast. I wish I could join their group!

          3. Yeah the papers in my town are full of stories about a birthday party that led to a big outbreak here.

    7. Do you have a couple of distinct friend groups? For me, zoom calls with more than like 4-5 people are not really interactive discussions. It’s not like when you are in person, and small conversations can happen between subsets of the group. Personally, I would probably plan a number of different events – a bunch of zoom calls with smaller groups throughout the week and maybe a small socially distanced picnic with my closest 3-4 friends in my city.

27. Talk to me about your non-retirement, non-emergency, non-otherwise earmarked (eg. college, whatever) savings. We are on track for retirement, have a solid emergency fund, have 529s and accounts earmarked for college for the kids. What do you all do with this other pot of money? Save for a big thing (vacation, kitchen, new house) then spend? Let it all pile up? How does this pot of money compare in size to the rest of your funds?

    1. I have literally no money that isn’t in retirement, 529s or our emergency fund.

       1. I’m the OP and until fairly recently I did not either ;). We focused on that stuff first.

          1. Sorry if I sounded hostile! I misread this as a survey, like how much do you have outside of these special types of accounts. I missed that you were saying you have money leftover and were looking for advice about what to do with it.

    2. In addition to 401k and Roth IRAs, I have another retirement account with my financial advisor. I think it’s a plain old IRA? Not sure. I contribute any extra to that.

       And I also keep a lot of it, like 1.5 year’s worth of expenses (probably too much, but I am financially conservative) in an Ally account, where it sits, earning me little interest but at least it’s there. I add $500 a month to that account.

       1. If you want to re-do your kitchen, or go on vacation, or buy some new clothes–does all that come out of the Ally account with the idea that you don’t let it dip below $X?

          1. Yes, exactly!

    3. Invest it. Then it acts like a secondary retirement account, get a better house or buy a business or whatever later on account. You don’t need to know NOW what it’s for, you just need to keep growing that money.

       1. Op here- That’s what we have done. We are late 30s and I’m wondering if we have been extra conservative and perhaps should be thinking about this pot of money for fun things.

    4. We put it into a regular savings account and use it for big things, usually vacations and home improvement. Its size fluctuates greatly, depending on what we’re doing. We don’t pre-plan ideas for the money, we just know its there if we want to do something. If there were an emergency, we would use it before using our actual emergency fund.

    5. We have some in Ally (low but decent interest rate) that is more than we need for emergency savings but is there as kind of a hedge against stock market fluctuations. And boy were we glad we had it in February!

       The rest is in a couple of brokerage accounts that I manage. I used to have a bonus-heavy job so we lived on my base salary and put the rest into brokerage. I use mostly managed funds but I do invest in a few individual stocks kind of for fun, kind of because I believe the companies I invest in have long term promise. I am not a short term investor. All my positions are long.

    6. Since you mentioned 529s, something to think about is that your savings (excluding retirement accounts and your primary home equity) will reduce your childrens’ college financial aid awards. It is frustrating to me that the college financial aid system rewards people who spend more and save less, but after seeing my lower-income-but-extremely-frugal parents have to pay my $250k+ tuition bill out of pocket when kids from far wealthier families got need-based grants because their parents didn’t have the savings to put them through, we plan to take a different approach to college savings than my parents did. Especially if your incomes would allow you to cover most or all of college out of current cash flow, you may be much better off without a large pot of non-retirement savings.

       1. I think you need to look at yourself here and ask why you “needed” a $250k education. Seriously. Not enough critical thought goes into evaluating the cost/benefit of public vs private tuition.

          If your parents were able to pay $250k for your education, you were a very fortunate family, and there’s no need to bag on people poorer than you for getting financial aid.

          1. I think you misunderstood my comment. I never said I needed a $250k education, and in fact it’s my personal belief that state schools are more than fine. But it was really important to my parents to send me to the best school I could get into, so they spent their entire lives depriving themselves of pretty much everything, so they could save ~$250k (on an income that was less than $50k/year for most of my childhood), and then I went to college with kids whose parents had much higher incomes than my parents did and who had had much “fancier” upbringings, and those kids had gotten some need-based financial aid from the school, simply because their parents spent all their money instead of saving it. It is a fact that the college financial aid system penalizes people who save money (outside of narrow categories like some kinds of retirement accounts), and I don’t think it’s immoral to do your financial planning with that fact in mind.

             1. then your parents made poor and unreasonable financial decisions. that’s on them.

             2. Yes, I agree they didn’t make optimal decisions in this regard, hence why I said I don’t plan to do the same thing. But it is counterintuitive to most of us to think of saving as a “poor financial decision,“ which is why I was pointing it out. OP sounds like she’s at an income level where she won’t get any aid anyway, but it is applicable to people who earn less than $200k and are in a position to save.

       2. OP here. That’s good advice, though it is very unlikely we would qualify for aid anyway. I don’t really see the logic in spending down $200k (or whatever) in non retirement assets to get college aid. That may be how it works but that’s not how DH and I work. Our HHI hovers $350-$450, and even if just one of us were working it would be ~$250+.

    7. Invest and let it pile up. I see no need to earmark it for a new kitchen or a second home or a vacation or whatever. Let it be one big pile.

       1. Counterpoint: when I was just getting started, until about age 30 to be honest… bucketing money by vacation fund, down payment, car-buying fund, etc, allowed me a little breathing room. I could see that I could afford a vacation within my budget, while still growing other buckets of money and staying on track to meet my goals. When it was one lump sum and I took out money for a vacation, for example, it felt like I was stealing from my down payment/home ownership goals.

          1. I do it like LaurenB, money sits in one account (well, one cash account, and then there are long term investments). But then I have a spreadsheet with savings categories ($x for next vacation, upcoming move, emergency fund, whatever), and there I divvy up these allocations, and compare against the balance of my bank account periodically. If all of my savings buckets are covered, the excess goes into long-term investing. If I take out the money for that vacation, I know how much should remain for the other buckets, and then I build it back up over the next few months.

    8. We have maxed out 401ks, IRAs, and a growing 529 for our one child. I have about $225k sitting in a (laughably low) high interest savings account. There it will sit during this covid stuff because I’m commission only and, well, not making much commission these days. Once things normalize we will be investing it. I want to have $100k in a savings vehicle for true emergency purposes, making sure it doesn’t lose any principal (see: my compensation structure) and the rest will go in mutual funds probably.

    9. I’d put it in Vanguard VTSAX (total stock market index admiral shares) and let it grow.

    10. We have some money in non-tax advantaged investments (money market funds, I think) that could be retirement or could be something else. We also have a “not emergency big expenses” account (currently an online savings account that had a 1.5% intrest rate at the beginning of the year) – that money will likely go towards a home renovation, downpayment on a car, etc. – stuff that we expect will happen 1-3 years in the future but won’t be a surprise when we do.

    11. I have an account labeled “Fun Money” at my bank and a list of things I’d like to buy or do with it. I put more into my emergency account than I do into my fun account (although at this very moment I’m putting an equal amount into both because I’m spending like $60 a week max…) but it’s nice to know I have money set aside for fun things that come up (aka Hamilton tickets when it comes to town again, a new computer, etc).

28. Help me navigate what my obligations are in this situation – Just before lockdown, I had a random overnight hook-up. The guy is 33. I am 45. We did not discuss my age, only his. Also, I am in a long-term relationship that is, from my perspective, on the rocks due to physical incompatibility (pretty sure my BF is not physically attracted to me) but I haven’t decided what I am doing with that. During that night, my phone rang at least 4 times between 1am and 5am. The guy noted that and of course it was my BF, who was travelling. I left in a hurry at 5am. I tried to sneak out but he grabbed me and gave me his number. We’ve texted a bit in lockdown and discussed hanging out after quarantine. I would like to, esp. for casual hook-ups. Do I need to tell him about the age thing beforehand? What about the BF thing? He already knows about/suspects that part, right? Can I wait and tell him in person? I can’t text any of this. Ask for a call beforehand if we do make plans to meet? Also, I might randomly bump into him even if we don’t make plans.

    1. How is this even a question? You don’t owe anything to a guy you randomly hooked up with once. You obligations are to your BF and you should break up with him ASAP, especially if you intend to see the casual hookup again.

    2. What in the hell? You need to deal with the fact that you cheated on your boyfriend. End that and then deal with this.

    3. You want us to give you advice on how to cheat on your boyfriend? Since you want to know what your obligations are, you have an obligation to break up with your boyfriend since you’ve already cheated on him once and you want to do it again.

    4. Your obligations are to your BF. Figure out what’s going on there, but it sounds like you should probably end that.

    5. You want our help on how to cheat on your boyfriend? Be an adult and break up with him before moving on to someone else.

    6. Oooh, grabbing the popcorn for this one.

       No, you don’t need to tell your friend with benefits your age up front.

       1. You don’t need to tell a random hookup your age. You should not assume because your phone rang several times during the hookup (what? weird.) that random hookup guy knows you have a BF. You should deal with the fact that you cheated on your BF and probably end that relationship, it sounds like it’s already over and you just haven’t told BF that. If you ever cared for each other, you owe it to him to let him know.

          1. Why is is weird that the phone rang?

             1. It’s weird that someone is supposed to know that the phone ringing means she’s in a committed relationship

             2. For me, multiple calls between 1am and 5am would mean (1) family emergency or (2) someone is trying to figure out why you aren’t at home. Not answering any of those calls would indicate the latter to me, making the whole thing weird.

             3. It was the latter and he commented on it, which makes me think he understood or at least suspected there is someone else who was trying to track me down and yet he did not just let me slip out.

    7. Let me reframe the Q – How do I approach each of them to figure out if they’d be okay with this as an arrangement? I think my BF might understand/be okay with this as a temporary solution but I have no idea what the other guy wants given his insistence that I take his number and that he has stayed in touch a bit despite all the circumstances and I don’t want to offend him.

       1. Bigger Q: why do you want to stay together with a BF who you think isn’t attracted to you and isn’t doing it for you? DUMP HIM. Then go have fun with the new guy.

       2. It seems like you’re interested in polyamory. Which to me is not a problem if all parties consent but it seems like you got the order wrong with your boyfriend. You know you should have discussed this with him before hooking up with another person, right? Or do you already have an arrangement where if one of you has an opportunity for a non-emotional affair it’s ok?

          You can bring it up to boyfriend as I’d either like to break up or try polyamory (assuming he meets some of your needs other than physical) and see what he says.

          For the hookup guy, I think you’re way, way overthinking what you “owe” him (which kind of makes me think you’re not really a candidate for no-strings-attached hookups).

          1. Thanks. This is helpful. I don’t think I am interested in polyamory intellectually or as a lifestyle, but I may be situationally. And I really am just fine with no-strings-attached, but I am having a hard time reading this guy and have been criticized in the past (including on this board) for just proceeding on that path without clarity on the other person’s perspective.

       3. What? I’m so confused. Why would your BF be okay with this? That seems quite unlikely.

       4. You use your words and you talk to them. You go to each and tell them the truth of the situation. Approach each where they are. I’m guessing the BF will need the longest conversation.

       5. The answer to this is you approach each of them before you cheat on your bf/hook up with someone while you have a bf, not afterwards.

          Afterwards, you come clean to your bf that you hooked up with someone and you come clean with your hookup that you have a bf and you let them decide how they feel about it. You have to own up to it honestly and asap.

    8. +1 to everyone else, except that I do think you should be honest with him (in addition to your BF!) that (1) you have a BF (he does NOT necessarily know, some of us are naive), and (2) your age or age range at least (though I think you can stall on this one for a while).

    9. Disagree with all the “advice” so far. You live your life the way you want to live it. You might want to break up with BF, you might not want to–though it sounds like it’s probably time to. Hook-up bro–depending on where it goes, your obligations probably change. You do you and way to live your life the way you want to live it. If you progress to serious, you might want to disclose your age, or get a decent fake i.d. Your post made my day and gives me hope…

       1. I really appreciate this response. It should give you hope! This dilemma comes after a long, long spell of solitude that I can’t fully explain, which leaves me now both clinging to connections and open to adventures when they present themselves.
          I hadn’t thought of the fake ID! That would make taking the.most extreme course here so much more fun (a la the TV show Younger).

          1. Please don’t do that. Fun to think about but… ugh in real life. We would all be outraged if a man did it to any of us.

             There’s a difference between “you don’t owe him anything” and affirmatively lying to him.

             1. Of course not. It was a joke and I was playing along.

    10. This is a little bizarre but I will go ahead and try to help you – you don’t owe casual hook-up man any info about anything, as long as he is a casual hook-up/side piece and knows this. If he’s fine with that, then it is what it is. Make sure your casual hook-up-ness is defined and agreed upon between the two of you – like he knows you’re in a relationship. Unless you are looking to date side guy after you break-up with your BF, you should maintain strict boundaries that it’s just casual and you do not want a relationship.

        You are venturing into really complicated territory that should only be navigated with a clear head and fully accepting the short and long term consequences of your actions.

        1. Thanks. I am currently deciding what level of complicated I can deal with, and of course perhaps none of this will ever take shape because quarantine.

           1. I mean you clearly don’t care about quarantine if you are hooking up with a side piece. I don’t care what you do, but don’t pretend that quarantine has anything to do with it!

              1. I don’t think that eventually expanding my pod to three is going to make me any more of a disease vector than a faithful married person with two kids and no household help, but I do love that “you don’t respect quarantine” is becoming the ultimate slander!

29. hi! I wanted to get some of the hives thoughts regarding vacation and vacation time this year, given the pandemic. I have 16 vacation days left for the year. I’m pretty sure I’m going to use 4 of them to take the week after Memorial Day, so I’ll have 12 workdays off the rest of the year. I think that’s totally fine, and not sure I will even have occasion to use them given how tough traveling is.

    My question is what do we think employers will do regarding vacations for the rest of 2020? Are you being encouraged to take vacation now or to hold off? Do you feel comfortable taking vacation now from a job security perspective? And how do we think employers will handle the glut of vacation requests that come once the world is open again?

    1. I am banking my leave to hedge against the risk of furlough (hasn’t been discussed, but the longer this goes on the more likely it’ll be on the table), and will probably end up taking the month of December off if needed in order to keep the excess from rolling over into sick leave.

    2. DH’s vacation time works on an annual basis. So he has 25 days to use in 2020 and his company just asked everyone to take half by August 30th to do what with, I am not sure. They are normally allowed to roll over 7 days, and while they are not explicitly prohibiting rolling over (or at least not yet), they are strongly discouraging. My vacation works differently – on your anniversary date with the employer, which for me is August 1, I cannot have more than X days saved up or I stop accruing time. I have already had 2 vacations canceled (fortunately my employer did not make me still take the days), but I have no clue what I will do with all the days I have to use before August 1. I do not have separate sick time, so now I am saving them in case I get Covid, but will have to start to some soon. This is clearly a very minimal problem in the grand scheme of things.

    3. My employer is communicating to employees that it is good self-care to take time off while on WFH. It is contemplating increasing the amount of accrued leave that can carryover to next year. That is iffy, and for many employees, not much of a gift since many cannot manage workload to take leave without “losing” some each year.

    4. I have heard a lot of people talk about the concept of everyone taking vacation all at once “when the world reopens” but the thing is the world is not opening all at once. Many parts of the US have already lifted their stay at home orders, but people still aren’t traveling en masse and in places like NYC and MA people are still not allowed to travel. And everyone has a different comfort level with the risks involved, based on their individual situation. I know people who will be traveling by plane this summer, but I don’t plan to. I’m not sure any of us will be traveling internationally for the next year at least. I think plenty of people will use vacation time this summer but plenty of people won’t, and there’s not going to be a sudden deluge of vacation requests at any particular point in time. Maybe once we have a vaccine, although even then I think plenty of people will have already been traveling so it won’t be this huge spike in vacation requests.

       From a job security perspective, I can’t imagine taking vacation is frowned upon, unless your job involves COVID response and is all hands on deck right now.

       Personally, I don’t plan to take vacation days in 2020 since I don’t have a lot of interest in using vacation time for domestic travel (I prefer weekend trips for that) and I don’t see myself being comfortable traveling internationally until next year at the earliest. I hope that I can take some really big bucket list trips in 2021 or 2022 because, prior to this, accruing enough PTO for longer trips was a struggle for me.

    5. My husband’s and other employers are telling staff to take vacation days while they’re slow in order to avoid layoffs. I’d save some for that.

       1. Not trying to snark, but unless the vacation days are unpaid, how does employees taking vacation help the employer?

          1. The company carries a liability for earned but unused vacation. It’s accounting but it’s real when you’re reporting results.

          2. It gets the earned-but-not-used PTO off the books.

    6. We are being forced to take at least half of our allotted 4 weeks by September 1st. I think they really don’t want everyone to leave for two or more weeks when everything starts to reopen. I guess I’ll do either a staycation or a short local trip if that’s an option in August. I’m not thrilled by this because my family lives abroad, I haven’t seen them in more than a year, I would be prefer to take some time over the holidays to visit them if that’s a possibility, but I guess I don’t have much of a choice.

    7. We are normally “use it or lose it” but our employer is saying they will approve carrying over 1/3 to 1/4 of our allotment into the first half of next year. We were told to put in our requests for the rest of the year this week. I asked for two weeks in late fall — hoping to do a road trip up the coast but who knows? Also had already put in for Thanksgiving and Christmas. (I’m quite senior so I have a lot of vacation.)

    8. We are being encouraged to take annual leave in order to look after ourselves but also are allowed to carry significantly more holiday than usual into the next year. Because I live alone without outside space, I’ve agreed with my boss that I won’t take more than a couple of days here and there until I can go outside and vaguely see people (even if that just means sitting in the park with a book watching the world go by). A full week without the structure of work wouldn’t be helpful for my mental health at the moment. Other colleagues in my team live with their families and are taking time off to spend with them, so we won’t have ALL of our holiday entitlements to deal with at the back end of the year. I’m working on the assumption that even if I can’t actually ‘go away’ I will at least be able to take a week to visit my parents (5 hour journey by train or a short flight) by the autumn.

    9. I only get 12 days of vacation, and it is “use it or lose it.” I took 1.5 days in February. For now, I’m planning to take 8 of the remaining days for a trip I rescheduled from this spring until Thanksgiving. It’s possible that that won’t be safe, but for now, I have $2000 in plane ticket credits and 10.5 days of vacation that have to be used by the end of 2020. If I end up canceling the trip, I might use the vacation to self-quarantine for 14 days before Christmas so we can spend time with family (I am already back at work.)

30. I’m not sure what to make of this situation. My boyfriend has been commenting on my weight gain lately. The issue is that I haven’t gained any!

    1. Is that the issue, though? Why is he commenting on your weight changes at all, whether real or imaginary?

    2. He shouldn’t be commenting on your weight at all; but, since he is commenting on your imaginary weight gain, he might be trying to concoct a reason to break up with you and gaslight you into believing its your fault. I don’t think you would be wrong to just go ahead and preemptively get him out of your life.

       1. Wow! That is an extreme response in the absence of other facts.

       2. Yup. It would be bad enough if there had been a weight gain, but an imaginary one seems like trying to pick a fight/breakup.

          1. To be clear, my “yup” is for Carmen Sandiego. I don’t think this is an extreme response at all. I would need a lot of mitigating facts to want to change it.

             1. I agree. I don’t think there’s reading much into this. Commenting on weight out of nowhere combined with no actual weight gain does feel like picking a fight

             2. I am with Senior Attorney. Deal breaker.

       3. You should immediately and without explanation break up with anyone who makes any type of comment you don’t like. Unless you’re already cheating on him. In that case, you should make a fake ID and string him along for as long as possible.

          1. HA!

       4. I agree that he’s picking a fight.

       5. I think you actually nailed it. My friends have said that about other situations. I’m horrible at break ups outside of the uncertainty of Coronavirus, much less within.

          There aren’t any mitigating factors. I’ve upped my workouts during quarantine and have actually lost weight. I’m in a bathing suit laying out at least once a week so I don’t think it’s looser clothes.

          I asked him, and he simply insists that it’s true and asked me to provide pictures to prove it.

          1. Oh wow, the doubling down is definitely him trying to pick a fight.

          2. Yikes! I’m sorry (I checked back on this post because I was surprised that some people said my answer was extreme – I didn’t mean for it to sound like some extreme response, I’m usually pretty levelheaded! Maybe I’ve just seen a lot of this from men both directed at me and at other women?) I understand it’s hard to break-up, and honestly, you don’t have to do it right now, but please don’t internalize his nasty remarks – whether about your weight, or anything else – it’s not you that is the problem. Sending you internet good vibes.

          3. he’s asked you to provide pictures to prove that you haven’t gained weight? This is insane and I’m legitimately fearful for your safety.

             1. Uh, yeah, that’s horrible. DTMFA. DTMA. DTMFA.

          4. Provide pictures to prove it? What the actual…? Let’s pretend the first conversation wasn’t extremely problematic. AND during the second conversation, he decides that his version of reality is the correct one. He could STILL say “Ok” to you and then, without mentioning it again, go look at any picture of you on his phone or on a social media account or in your shared living space. Why is the burden on YOU to prove that you haven’t gained weight? It’s gas lighting and emotionally abusive–make something up, make it an issue when it shouldn’t be, insist on his version of reality, and put the onus on the other person to prove they are correct.

          5. He asked you to provide pictures to prove it? This guy doesn’t deserve you. I’m sorry.

          6. OMG what? Boy, bye.

          7. Oh, man.

             DTMFA.

          8. What. A. Jerk.
             I am not normally petty and vindictive, but I think you should let him know, as you dump him, that his d*** has shrunk and you have pics to prove.

    3. Just ask him why he’s commenting on a non existent weight gain? It’s possible that he legitimately thinks you have gained weight because lounge clothes are looser, so the question becomes why is he hoping to achieve there? The other is that he’s picking a fight, consciously or not, possibly because he’s in a bad mindset himself or because he’s deliberately being a jerk. I can’t say what his reasons are, but some answers are more understandable than others, like if he’s having anxiety about his own weight or something. Ask him!

    4. If I was in your shoes, I’d tell him I knew a great way to lose 180 pounds – dumping him. Honestly, I have pretty low standards, but one of the things I absolutely will not tolerate is any SO who harps about my weight gain or weight loss. And FWIW, most of the guys I’ve known who harp about stuff like that aren’t exactly Nikolaj Coster-Waldau lookalikes.

       1. Now to be fair, part of my Strong Negative Reaction to this kind of thing is a childhood of listening to my overweight, not-very-attractive dad harp about my skinny-to-average mom’s weight (as well as critiquing the bodies of nearly any woman he saw). I’m damaged goods on this issue for sure, but I’m still right.

          1. You are not damaged goods because you know that kind of behavior is unacceptable. My parents harped on my weight the whole time I was growing up, and the lessons I took from that were “people who supposedly love you harp on your weight,” and “if I could just get skinny enough, everyone including my parents would love me.” THAT is damaged goods and it took me two marriages to weight-harpers and a lot therapy to get over it!

             1. Oh, thank you! That’s nice to hear and you’re right. I’m not damaged goods. Have to keep remembering that.

31. Since people often recommend pelvic floor physical therapy I have to ask… is this a treatment where they’re putting their hands on or in you? How does it work?

Comments are closed.