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Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Leather Pencil Skirt

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A woman wearing a black turtleneck and brown leather skirt; she is wearing loafers with her skirt

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

We’ve talked about wearing leather to the office in the past, and the general verdict was that leather skirts were a thumbs-up in most circumstances, as long as they were styled appropriately. Regardless, I never really saw myself as a leather skirt person until I came across this one from Vince in “dark cinnamon stick.”

This rich reddish-brown looks so luxe that I’m seriously considering whether a price tag with a comma in it is worth it to have it in my closet. I’m very much in a loafer era right now, so I’d probably style it exactly as they have it pictured here, with bare legs until it gets too cold for me to stand it.

The skirt is $1,250 at Nordstrom and comes in sizes 0–16. It's also available in black.

If you're looking for something on the more affordable size, check out these faux leather styles: NYDJ ($89, sizes 00–18) and Eloquii (on sale for $53.97, size 14–32).

Sales of note for 3/26/25:

  • Nordstrom – 15% off beauty (ends 3/30) + Nordy Club members earn 3X the points!
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale + additional 20% off + 30% off your purchase
  • Banana Republic Factory – Friends & Family Event: 50% off purchase + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 50% off select styles + extra 50% off all sale
  • J.Crew – 30% off tops, tees, dresses, accessories, sale styles + warm-weather styles
  • J.Crew Factory – Shorts under $30 + extra 60% off clearance + up to 60% off everything
  • M.M.LaFleur – 25% off travel favorites + use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – $64.50 spring cardigans + BOGO 50% off everything else

345 Comments

  1. There are more affordable genuine leather options out there, too. It’s disappointing that the article goes from $1200 genuine to $100 plastic with nothing in between.

    1. I would love better quality synthetic versions. There is a world of difference between cheap fake leather and something along the lines of, say, Stella McCartney.

        2. Because it’s “here’s a couple options” not “I’ve scoured the internet for every choice”

          You can choose to be negative to start the day or not. “Hey this one looks great too! Real leather but more reasonable”

        4. I think the Brooks Brothers skirt is actually cuter. It’s hard to tell quality without buying in person, but great find!

    2. I just can’t with brown (unless it’s paired with denim).

      Years ago I got a leather pencil skirt from Talbots and it is LINED and is fantastic still. Also, black, so it goes with my fall/winter color palette (NYC Office Goth; have never been able to pull off Dark Academia).

    5. I had a Y2K-era dark brown suede pencil skirt that I wore with a black sweater and dark red boots and honestly I would kill to have that whole outfit again.

      1. I had a fawn colored suede a-line skirt that had cutouts along the hem. I felt like I had arrived in that thing. That’s when I used to watch Trinny & Susannah and they had me convinced that everything had to be a-line and emphasize my waist.

    6. I have that NYDJ version and personally love it. It feels great on, costs a fraction of the price (it was on sale), and I receive tons of compliments every time I wear it. I wore it this weekend as part of my Halloween party costume and everyone asked about it.

  2. Just don’t be my former colleague who tailored her otherwise lovely leather pencil skirt so close that not only was she unable to take normal steps but she also squeaked loudly as she mince-walked down the hall.

  3. Wish me some luck today and give me a pep talk – I’m putting in my notice at my current job. I have some guilt…I’ve only been there a few months, but its just not a great fit despite this being an objectively really, really good job. I have almost all my projects wrapped up, and have plans for the ones in progress. I’ve been very underemployed thus far (part of the reason i’m leaving) but I still feel bad. I’m just trying to focus on how excited I am for the new position, but still. Quitting really is the worst feeling.

    1. Take it from someone who stayed too long at a job that I should never have taken – it doesn’t get easier with more time in. Good luck! No guilt allowed.

    2. I think you need to remember it’s not personal. Companies will find someone else quickly and any good manager is happy to see you grow. That you have projects in order is the biggest factor. Also, it’s a smaller world than it seems sometimes. I’m suprised how many old bosses and colleagues I bump into again.

      1. Thanks – I just did it and my manager was fantastic about it. Seemed appreciative that I had a plan to wrap things up/transition them out, and we are just moving on. They really are a fantastic company, just 100% remote work is just not for me. I’m sure they will find someone quickly!

  4. Short question: in there a situation where a bank would withdraw your money from an account and close the account?

    Context: Last August, I helped a young family family friend open up a Capital One 360 savings account with a check for 5k. This August, nearly a year later, she says the bank withdrew the money (plus interest) and closed the account without warning her. I did see screenshots of the transactions but not who made them. She claims that the bank couldn’t verify the source of the check so they were holding it until they could verify. The check was from my uncle, but he has not been contacted in any way nor the money returned to his account. I find her explanation implausible but thought I would see if there is something I’m missing. Thanks.

    1. Sorry but this doesn’t sound real. Was this conversation had in the context of her asking for additional money or more help?

      1. No, she was not asking for anything additional. Her mom is actually the one who told me. Not to ask for anything per se, but to let me know. And also I think to check with my uncle to see if he had been contacted/ refunded the money.

    2. You could try contacting the bank yourself, but this honestly sounds like a scam. Is she asking for more money?

    3. I had something similar happen twice.

      First, for an account I shared with my mom that we did not regularly use – the bank almost closed it but for the fact that my mom stopped into the bank to see about the account and they told her it was now in “inactive” status and would be closed shortly. She was able to restore it but had she not stopped in, it would have been closed forever.

      Second time, I opened an account at a different bank for my kids to deposit birthday money. I was explicit about the purpose with the bank (nonce a year checks). Nonetheless, when I went to deposit the next year’s check I was told the account was closed due to inactivity. The bank could not explain why no one contacted me or let me know of any requirements for maintenance (which they said they didn’t actually have!)… Funny enough, they still email me about opening custodial accounts for my kids and even call.

      Anyway, all that to say, it’s weird but it’s not unheard of.

      1. +1

        yup, my father also had am account closed for inactivity and they kept thousands for years. Never called or alerted my Dad.

    4. So generally speaking banks don’t withdraw money if they are unsure about the source. They may freeze it so that you don’t have access to it, or hold it without depositing it, but I’m struggling to think of a situation where a bank would actually allow funds to be deposited and then pull them back out after the fact. Also, the whole part around the check doesn’t make sense – it is possible for there to be a delay in a bank making funds available due to anti-money laundering screenings (which are normal/standard), but a year’s delay doesn’t make sense at all, especially given that it sounds like she’s suggesting the check cleared into her account at one point. Also, while banks cannot always communicate about the reasons for account closure (eg if they’re closing/freezing because they think you’re financing Al Qaeda, they will not tell you that) but they will tell the accountholder that the account has been closed. That’s required by law.

      Wondering if this young relative opened a credit card linked to this account and set the payments to auto-debit, and that’s what happened to the money? But either way, her explanation doesn’t make sense.

      (Source: I work for a bank.)

      1. Yes, the year’s delay is what gives me extra pause here. I would understand flagging it in the first few days or weeks, but it was 50 weeks (just under a year) when this happened. And yes, the money cleared in her account last year and gained interest every month until it closed. I also looked at the bank’s account terms for an inactivity clause, but that says it would be 3 years. I do think it’s possible they sent her notices about this that she missed, but wondered how likely they were to take the action in the first place. Thanks.

        1. I have a couple of Capital One 360 savings accounts that I use for emergency funds that I want to keep liquid. They are “inactive” in that I don’t regularly move money in or out, they just sit there accruing paltry amounts of interest in case I need the money. Capital One has never closed them, or threatened to close them, for being inactive, and they are many years old.

          Also, Capital One has great customer service over the phone. She or you should call and speak to someone about this – they’ll be able to tell you what happened.

          1. I have a CapitalOne savings account that is just sitting there. Once a year CapOne tells me I have to make a transaction or the account will be closed, but I only see this message if I log in to check the account. They do not reach out proactively. I can’t imagine that they are allowed to keep the money if they close the account–don’t they have to attempt to return it to the owner and then send it to the state unclaimed property registry?

        2. Also, even when accounts are closed for inactivity that typically would not be reflected as withdrawals on her online transaction history. The account just wouldn’t be available to transact (at least that’s how it works at my institution, which is very large). That is in part because the money in an inactive account still belongs to the accountholder and can be retrieved, but not via a standard withdrawal. (Eventually it goes to the state – this is called escheatment – under state unclaimed property laws, but that takes many years after account closure.)

      2. I once opened an account and deposited a $35,000 personal check for a political campaign (ballot initiative, so unlimited donations from any one person). You can bet the bank waited almost two weeks to clear that sucker.

        But they didn’t do anything else afterward – the account closed in good standing.

    5. I read an article recently about banks more frequently closing accounts for possibly suspicious activity. I’m sure info on this will come up if you google it, but it sounded like banks are being held responsible for suspicious activity and that’s leading them to be overly cautious about closing people’s accounts for anything that an algorithm flags as suspect.

    6. There’s either something sketch happening or the bank had a know your customer issue.

      1. Yeah, this is a KYC issue. I worked in KYC at Capital One. The funds are being held in limbo as they probably think it was fraud.

    7. There was an article about this in the NY Times sometime earlier this year. Banks are apparently closing accounts more frequently and without notice or much explanation to the customer because of “unusual activity.” IIRC, there has been a change in how suspicious activity is flagged, but banks quickly close accounts with flagged activity to shield the bank from liability. Consumers can get some help by reporting it to the CFPB. And I think this is one of many reasons Wells Fargo has been fined by the federal government.

        2. Yeah, I would not bank with Wells Fargo, knowing the shenanigans we now know about.

          1. here here

            that company should have been burned to the ground years ago and many should have gone to prison.

            and yet the continue to flourish and people on this site bank with them… hoping it is just inertia but..

    8. It’s possible. After Silicon Valley Bank failed the risk profile of many banks has gone up. When that happens, the banks double down on compliance procedures to mitigate controllable risk. So they might have overlooked something a year ago due to the dollar/amount circumstances they now want to review further given their change in risk profile.

    9. What does the bank say? There are several different scenarios here – maybe the check was fraudulent or bounced. Maybe your uncle was flagged for other suspicious activity elsewhere. Maybe your family friend was flagged for suspicious activity elsewhere. She needs to figure out what the bank’s explanation is and request a refund. If she has trouble she should complaint to the bank’s regulator and the CFPB and maybe her member of congress.

    11. Was this $5,000 a loan from you that your young family friend was expected to repay? That could explain the sudden disappearance of the funds from her account. Customer Service at Capitol One 360 should be able to clear things up. Good luck!

      1. No, it was a gift. She did call customer service and from what I understand, they say it is under investigation because they need to verify the check. But it just seemed farfetched to me, though given all the comments and stories above, I see that may actually be the case. The family sent a certified letter to the bank and will get a lawyer involved in 60 days if not resolved. Thanks to you and everyone god the insight!

        1. Might want to double-check the customer service number she called. Seems very far-fetched that the bank would investigate a check that was deposited and cleared a year ago — what is there to “investigate” at this late date? She may have been scammed and is embarrassed to disclose all the facts to you. Or — based on the limited information available — this could be a theft that needs to be reported to the police or the FBI, not a civil matter that can wait 60 days for a response to a letter. Good luck to her.

  5. I think it’s finally time for us to give up cable TV. Can anyone recommend a good service for Live TV? We still want live local channels. Looking at Hulu live but I know there are others. Does anyone use YouTube TV? Do you think there will be any specials during Black Friday? Thanks ladies!

    1. My sister is happy with YouTubeTV, but I can’t justify the price and only use streaming.

    2. We’ve used YouTube TV for 5? years. Although – annoyingly – the price has gone doubled along with the addition of a bunch of content we don’t need (hello, earth to YouTube, that was the reason we LEFT CABLE), we still find it the best for the combo of local channels + the other old cable channels that we actually watch.

    4. We use Hulu live and like it for live channels. I think my husband watches some of his sports on ESPN+ though.

    5. Why? We looked into it and it’s not cheaper. Our cable is bundled with our internet.

    6. We use a Tablo antenna appliance for over the air. It sits on our home network and allows us to receive all of the network channels. It comes with a DVR function built in and four tuners, so if there are multiple programs we want to watch/record, we can do so.

      1. Dumb question: but I’m assuming the antenna needs good “access” for this to work? All I want are the network channels, but I live in a lower level apartment that faces an internal courtyard so I don’t have a good set up for an antenna.

        1. We have it stuck on the wall of my husband’s home office. I know someone who has a basement apartment who has their antenna on the wall of their bedroom. It’s a rubber mat with wires in it, so it doesn’t require the precise sight lines that the old rabbit ears needed.

      2. We also use an antennae and have for years. We don’t watch too much local TV other than live sports, but it works for all local channels (can be finicky in super bad weather though). We’ve upgraded the antennae a few times for better technology over the years but generally buy one of the most popular options on Amazon.

    7. I’d look really hard at the pricing. My sense is that it’s no longer always cheaper to cut the cord, especially if you’re a family that would replace cable with a bunch of different packages.

        1. I adore this language. As my husband would say, “six of one, a dozen of the other.”

        2. That is not even close to true in my area. Cable was $200+. We are currently around $70ish for streaming, less during parts of the year we are not paying for a sports channel.

          But I live in an area with a great independent high speed internet provider so I don’t need cable for that. (Shoutout to Sonic)

    8. I like YouTubeTV, but in my case it happens to be cheaper and more accessible than cable. That’s not going to be true for everyone.

      1. Yeah, my local cable provider is terrible and much more expensive than the big national providers so we’ve saved money and gotten much better features with YouTube TV. We like it, but it was a lot more of a no-brainer a few years ago when it was a lot less expensive. I should probably do a comparison and see if we would be better off switching to a competitor at this point.

    9. We briefly had YouTube TV shared with a sibling before they start really cracking down on shared accounts (which is totally reasonable, no judgment statement here). We both liked it but neither continued when we couldn’t split the price, felt it was too expensive for what we got.

    10. We use Sling + an antenna for live TV. We stream a few channels for everything else.

      The habit we had to break was signing up for something like Hulu because we wanted to watch a specific show, and then just paying every month because ? We have learned to unsubscribe from everything we aren’t currently watching. You can always instantly sign up again if you want to watch something new.

      My cell phone provider had a deal on Disney + ESPN when I got a new phone so we currently have that so my husband can watch his beloved Red Wings.

    11. Question: when people say “leave cable for streaming,” I don’t really know what that means.

      I want a world where I sit in front of the TV and, with one remote and one screen, can see all of my options – networks, movies, Netflix/Amazon/Hulu – so that I can scan my options and decide what to watch. I do not want to have to say, “Today, I plan to watch X show, and I know that X show is on Y platform, so I will use Z method to get there.” Frankly, that sounds like a nightmare.

      Can someone explain it to me? thanks.

      2. You get a smart TV or something like a Fire Stick or Chromecast or similar device that plugs into an HDMI port on the back of a regular TV (they’re pretty inexpensive). Then the TV (or the device) gives you access to all of the streaming services – so you log into each service you have an account with and then when you’re ready to watch Downton Abbey on Prime you turn on the TV and you navigate to your Prime Video app and search for the show. None of these streaming platforms are integrated (as far as I’m aware – maybe there is a smart TV or device out there that can do this?), so it’s not as simple as turning on the TV and just searching Game of Thrones and it coming up. You’d still have to know that it’s on HBO Max (or whatever name they’re calling themselves this week) and go to the app for that streaming service to find it. But the plus side (compared to cable) is that it’s all on demand, so you can watch whatever whenever, vs. just when it’s being shown on the cable channel at a specific time. It’s also much cheaper than cable if you just do one or two streaming services at a time (obviously if you paid for all of the streaming services every month that would cost more than a typical cable bill, but most people use them for a couple months to watch a couple shows and then cancel and rotate to something else).

        1. +1 to smart tv. They all have this interface regardless of where you’re getting the signal (cable or streaming)

        2. A smart TV with a voice remote (mine is a four-year-old TCL) does this. You just tell it what you want to watch and poof!

      3. Xfinity is pretty close to this. It has a portal through which you can get to all the streaming services to which you might belong. And I am pretty sure you can search for something and it will tell you which service is streaming it and then you can get there with a click. But I don’t think it has a single consolidated menu that includes the world of options. That would be a lot.

      4. I stream and my tv looks like what you describe. One remove. The smart TVs have the interface you are looking for – it looks like the screen of your iPhone with icons – and the fact that you subscribe to channels independently doesn’t affect that.

    12. If you just want local channels buy a digital antenna – it’s a cheap one-time purchase for free TV for the life of the antenna.

  6. I’m looking for new work flats, and I want to know what everyone’s favorite flats are. I’m an attorney with a lot of client meetings and some court appearances so I dress business/business casual most of the time. I almost never wear heels and do not want to start. I have feet that are slightly wide with a low arch. Some of the flats that have fit me the best over the years are Sam Edelman’s Lorraine Bit Loafers and Naturalizer’s Samantha D’Orsay flat (which appears to have limited availability). I prefer a back, and other than loafers, I gravitate towards a pointier toe.

    2. Following because we’re starting RTO a few days a week and I’ve realized I have no work flats either.

    3. Upon a recommendation from another poster here earlier this summer, I bought the Naturalizer Florencia Mary Jane low heeled shoe. It’s been surprisingly versatile and sounds like it might fit the bill for you.

    4. I have the Cole Haan Viola Skimmer in multiple colors and love them. I still wear heels occasionally when I feel like it but the Violas work for any work occasion, (Also an attorney going to court often and also have wide feet).

    5. Check out vionic. I wear mine when I really want to be comfortable. And they’re pretty cute too. They have a really nice insole. I am sure there’s a technical term for this, but its very supportive?

      1. Sarah Flint flats are the most uncomfortable shoes I’ve ever put on my feet. I love her heels but the flats are manufactured in hell.

    7. Wardrobe Oxygen included a square toe, leather flat in Saturday’s roundup that comes in lots of colors. Also, check out the spicy Lenny Kravitz video that is also posted there.

  7. I’m considering a fully remote job (company is located elsewhere, so no local office to go into). I know I’ll need a plan for getting out of the house to work a few days a week but am struggling to come up with where would be a good place to work remotely.

    – due to medical reasons I’m on a very limited diet, so coffee shops are likely out as there isn’t anything I could order while there.
    – I’m negotiating the company paying for a coworking space, but if they don’t I don’t see myself shelling out $200 / mo for that. I could afford it, but it’d be at the expense of something else and I have way better uses for $200 each month.
    – the public libraries in my area aren’t really conducive to working from
    – my gym is an LA Fitness so no good space to work from there.

    Does anyone have any creative suggestions?

    1. I would stop thinking about places to work remotely and find other ways to get out of your house. Go for a walk, meet a friend for lunch, take a fitness class mid-day, etc.

      1. I tend to agree with this. Set up a nice work space at home, then get out of the house for other reasons.

    2. If you’re concerned about having a place outside the home to work, are you sure a remote job is the right fit for you?

      1. My preference is a hybrid situation but they don’t seem to exist in my area. It’s either fully in office or find something remote.

      2. This. And if it’s that important, pay the $200 a month for coworking space. Even if you could eat at a coffee shop or somewhere else, it’s going to cost at least that in lattes and is far less professional.

        1. She could go to a coffee shop and buy some tea or even hot water with lemon. She doesn’t need to eat there.

          1. Don’t be the personal who orders hot water and camps at a business for the day.

          3. A coffee shop presents more of a problem when you need to take a break to use the restroom. At least I would be more comfortable leaving my laptop and things in a coworking space, especially with a dedicated spot, than in a coffee shop.

          4. Who camps at a coffee shop for the day? Regardless of what you purchase? Literally never done this. I suggested tea because I assumed she’d be there for a few hours to get out of the house.

          7. There are coffee shops in my neighborhood (Berkeley) that I don’t even bother going to unless it’s winter break or summer. Every table occupied by students.

        2. I have 2 kids and work FT and have worked at a ton of places in my city while I am being the family Uber: grocery stores have excellent WiFi and tons of tables that are usually never crowded unless there is live music at the wine bar. Go to a Harris Teeter or Publics vs (in my city) the Aldi or Food Lion.

          Any college or community college and most places near them. Breweries have food during the off hours and you can get items to take home. I won’t have a beer while working, but I will get a hot pretzel. I like having flexibility and would rather pay for a meal around town while I can linger for an hour as I graze and do work stuff. I don’t go all day (too much needing the bathroom or to talk), but I like to get out on days I am WFH or days when I’m in the office 3 hours and working remotely for 5.

          I think that businesses are used to adults coming in and multitasking here and there and if you’re not parked there for 8 hours (and would need to get lunch or grocery items anyway), are happy to make an inviting win-win situation for you.

          Our YMCA is also very remote work friendly with tons of spaces for stranded parents and other grownups who have work to do. Ditto lobbies of big office buildings. You don’t need a badge to go there, just to go up.

        3. Wait — how is only working at home or a co-working space professional? I am not getting this at all. If there is some sort of unwritten code on this, I am not aware.

          1. After multiple calls with a team member who was in a loud coffee shop, I had to tell them that they need to find a working place that allowed for impromptu meetings and calls without distracting background noise. It is unprofessional.

          2. It’s just rude to work all day in a coffee shop, taking up a table, giving off be quiet vibes. And I can’t imagine taking zoom calls in there. There’s confidentiality issues too. I mean fine if you want to work on something quietly for a few hours but they’re not substitute offices. If you want a regular place to work, that’s literally what coworking spaces are for.

          3. I know I hate being on calls with folks who are in a loud space or distracting environment. One thing if you’re stuck somewhere like that because of travel, another thing entirely if you’re forcing me to listen to all that because you don’t want to sit at home.

          4. Oh if I went to a coffee shop it’d be for 2-3 hours, with a purchase, and only for solo work (no calls or video meetings). I wouldn’t camp out all day or take calls from on! -OP

          5. I pee too much to work remotely out of the house all day, but I like an hour out of the house here and there. And I usually spend money I wouldn’t have on a snack in the off-peak hours, so I consider my presence a win for where I’m at at the moment. And obviously no work calls or confidential docs on any laptop where someone is behind me (so including planes).

          6. I can’t think it’s rude — some coffee shops seem to need to have people in there all hours and are definitely selling items they otherwise wouldn’t have. Do people stay there their whole 8-hour work day unless they are on travel and have checked out of their hotel? I never thought that that was what anyone did.

          9. This depends a great deal on the coffee shop and its vibe. In my town, there are three coffee shops right by each other. One deliberately does not provide Wi-Fi and is more of a sociable place that also serves breakfast and brunch. The other two have Wi-Fi and seem to encourage a quiet environment that invites individual work during the work week. I’ve never seen anybody take a meeting in either shop, that would be rude.

        4. I would never take a call from a coffee shop, but what’s wrong with doing other work (which for me is research, writing, editing, planning / strategizing) from a coffee shop? – OP

        6. My coworking space provides a lot of free food and events on Fridays. It’s definitely worth the $200. I enjoy the coworkers there as well.

      3. I actually really enjoyed remote work + coworking space as opposed to in office. I found it was quieter because of an expectation that people would not chat in the working spaces. The lack of interruptions + being surrounded by other people who were working really helped me focus.

      4. I work in a niche field so there are limited opportunities in my area but many available remote jobs. Hybrid is rare. Im also applying to in person jobs in my area, but there are not many options. – OP

    3. University library? Many, though not all, are open to the public. If you have to drive there, parking could be expensive, though.

      1. Many community colleges have libraries and the ones around me have free parking, or at least free visitor parking.

      3. My friend got an ID to use the Princeton University library. She said it was for research purposes for a book. They used it for a year. She wasn’t a student anywhere and no one ever checked on what she was doing. Maybe you could make a similar arrangement.

    4. Mall food court? If it’s crowded it would still be rude to occupy a table when not eating, but on weekdays I can’t imagine they’re hurting for space.

      1. My local mall even has a decent lounge you can gain access to by signing up for their app. Most malls are trying to get any business they can, especially during the week.

    5. Our Harris Teeter, community college, and local HBCU are all very remote-work conducive.

      1. +1 to a local community college or university! I work in higher ed and there are a number of spots on campus you could camp out and no one would notice.

      2. I live in a big city so to my knowledge, the oval universities are somewhat locked down (require badge access), but I’ll investigate further! -OP

        1. In my city, dorms are locked but the student center is open into the night. There is tons of seating (some % of students are commuters) since even students have down time in between classes.

          1. I’ll look into it. I just remembered when I toured one of the colleges near me even on a campus tour we couldn’t go into the library as we didn’t have student IDs and they checked. Admittedly, this was nearly 15 years ago.

      3. I have worked at the Whole Foods dine-in area before. They have good Wi-Fi and usually I buy some fresh fruit to snack on while I work.

      1. Lawd, no one NEEDS to, but some of us do not like looking at the same walls 24/7 with no human contact during the workday.

        1. Yes, but the answer changes if she NEEDS to work elsewhere because there is too much commotion at home, unreliable internet, and loud neighbors as opposed to WANTING a change of scenery. If an actual need, then I would caution her to think hard about whether she can really make this role work if her WFH setup is untenable.

          1. Wait — if that was the limit on ability to do a WFH job, most of us wouldn’t have gotten through the pandemic.

            Urban WFH has sirens and people randomly jackhammering, plus roommates, dogs left alone all day that bark, etc. Suburban / rural has power lines that go down, yard people who make noise, dogs, etc. Are we so sure that it’s really this restrictive? All I see from my remote admin assistant is work sent via e-mail, which is as fine as it was in the office.

          2. 10:39, there is a big difference between the emergency state of the pandemic and normal work. Employers excused a lot more then because it was the way things were. We’re not in that phase anymore.

          3. Nope! OP here, I live alone and have good wifi, and reasonable neighbors (who either wfh and are quiet or go to work in person so not home during the day). I just prefer to not spend all day every day alone in an apartment where I can reach out and touch my bed while sitting at my desk.

          4. I don’t see how her WFH setup would be untenable only a few days a week; she said she needed a plan for getting out of the house, not a working space to entirely replace an unacceptable WFH set up.

          5. Anon @ 10:39, this seems to have hit a raw spot for you. I am sure you can imagine that it is very different for an asynchronous email-based worker to deal with background noise while WFH than it is for a daily zoom presenter to attempt to rely on the local coffee shop for their sole source of reliable wifi.

            It is unclear whether the OP just wants creative ideas about alternate locations for variety’s sake, or if there is something about their WFH setup that makes it dysfunctional on the regular.

          6. Someone is doing zooms daily from a coffee shop? That does seem unprofessional in 2023. I hope he buys a ton of stuff b/c that would annoy me as a business owner and as a customer.

      2. OP here, I live alone and while I have fulfilling hobbies and an active social life, I prefer to have some sort of interaction during the work day. Spending ~20 hours a day alone in a 650 sq Ft apartment is not my preference.

        1. Why not look for an in-office job then? WFH is great if you have kids and family to balance, but going to an office with other people can be a lot more fun, especially if you’re trying this hard to find a way to connect with people. Why go for a facsimile when you could have a meaningful workplace?

    7. You might contact local churches – some of them function as community centers and may have quiet rooms that they offer.

      1. Good thought. I remember that campus Newman Centers often have spaces like this. I bet churches often do too.

    8. I worked 100% remote at 2 jobs for a total of 7 years (even pre-COVID). I never had a coworking space. I made sure to plan activities with friends or my spouse to get me out of the house.

    9. The Y? Or another community center? I know Panera and my local coffee place don’t require people to buy things to set up working there. My niece used hotel lobbies pre-Covid, she had a job where she was on the road several days a week and she would pull into a hotel and sit in the lobby a few times when she needed a relatively quiet place to work. She also stopped in shopping malls — my local mall has a huge seating area that is on the opposite end of the mall from the food court, and in front of several stores that have closed.

    10. I don’t work remotely, but I have a friend who comes over to our house to work remotely once in a while when she needs a change of space. She even walks the dog for us.

      1. I actually really like this idea. Do you have a friend nearby who also WFH? Maybe you could trade off going to each other’s homes once a week to work for a half day or a whole day. You could work in separate rooms and just hang out for lunch or coffee time.

        I agree with the other poster to reconsider the library or different libraries. It depends entirely on the type of work you do, but if you see you’re going to have a several hour stretch of no calls and just need to do some writing or something, the quiet room at the library is a great place to be. I also WFH but was recently forced to go work at the library for an afternoon due to my internet going out, and it was actually pretty great. Not sure I’d want to spend a whole day there, but 3-4 hours was fantastic for getting out of the house. I’m planning to do it periodically this winter when I have writing days and need to break up the monotony.

        1. This is me. It also helps when I have some sort of writers’ block or need a new location to help with fresh thinking or letting an idea marinate for a bit. I don’t need 8 hours of people, but I like to break up the monotony and not feel like I’m in quarantine from the world.

          1. You might pay the $200 for a co-working space and time for your friends. Want to go in on it with you too. Maybe you come up with a 2-3 day a week schedule for each of you to share the cost.

      2. $200 is NOT cheap. To many of us, a $200 monthly expense is a large amount that would require redoing the whole budget.

        1. Yes! I make $80k a year so $200/mo is a decent chunk of change. I also misspoke; it appears that coworking spaces are closer to $300/mo

        2. It’s cheap for what it is, which is obviously what the person you’re responding to was saying.

      3. I’d love to be in a situation where $200 is so cheap, but that’s a huge chunk of change for me!

    12. Is this what you really want to do? It seems like if you’re stressing this much already about finding ways to get out of the house that maybe it’s not a good fit.(I’ve been WfH 10 years and working at a gym or mall has not even crossed my mind once.)

      Is there a coffee shop with a menu that does work for you? An outdoor space? A hotel lobby? Honestly this feels like such a strange problem to even try to solve. If it means this much, I think you should try a coworkimg space and consider it a cost of business.

      1. I only mentioned gym because my brother’s gym has a coworking space so I was trying to head off comments suggesting that.

        I suppose I could get an herbal tea at a coffee shop, but would feel bad only spending $3 and taking up a spot for a few hours.

        I don’t need to get out of the house all day or every day, but thought going somewhere for a few hours a few times a week would be good for me.

        1. Spend a few days going to different coffee shops, and find one that isn’t busy. I was literally just in a coffee shop for an hour reading this and doing some work. At least 50% of the spots were consistently open.

          I’m largely WFH. There’s another coffee shop I frequent, which is usually like 80-90% empty. I’m GF and don’t eat there, but I’ll get a beverage and spend a few hours and no one bats an eye.

          I wouldn’t take a call there, but it’s nice to get a change of scenery.

        2. If it’s not crowded, you may not be taking up a spot that anyone else would use. Just tip well and skedaddle if they start to fill up. Some coffee shops cater to people who want a space to set up their laptop and work, so it does help to be observant of the norms.

        3. There’s also generally restaurants. When I was in college, I used to go to restaurants mid afternoon for a couple hours. Theyre usually super quiet since its between lunch and dinner, but they have to be open anyway. I’ve never had anyone mind me sitting and nibbling on a appetizer while I read and took notes. I had a couple spots where the waiters knew me after a few visits and we would chat a little before i got to work.

    13. Make sure you’ve scoped out all the libraries because sometimes the branches nobody remembers are the best ones for working in!

      I don’t want to interrogate you about your diet, but I’ve been on very limited diets before and ordered things like spring water at coffee shops (the right kind of third wave coffee shop will often have sparkling and “naturale” mineral water for serving alongside the espresso Italian style). I don’t know how common this is, but at least three fancy hotels near me have coffee shops or bars where the general public can stop by, buy something, and then sit wherever in the hotel’s public seating areas.

      Some coworking spaces have a la carte options (e.g. pay admission for one day or for one afternoon). If I were you I would at least trial some of them to see how much it’s worth to you and how much it would actually cost if mixed in with other alternatives.

      1. This also. Between work travel and having kids, my list of places I’ve worked at remotely is extensive.

      2. Yeah – I’m so confused by this thing about the diet. I am gluten-free and don’t eat dairy. I am also on a low FODMAPs diet, for IBS. I meet people at Starbucks all the time and get hot or iced herbal tea (I can’t do caffeine after noon) with lemon. I am That Person who carries around herbal tea bags in my bag, just in case I end up someplace where I can get hot water but they don’t have caffeine-free tea.

        I also don’t want to interrogate OP about her diet but as someone on a pretty restricted diet myself – I can still eat/drink at coffee shops; I just have to be careful. Although I kinda agree with the point made above about it’s not completely professional to sit in a coffee shop all day nursing one or two beverages and taking calls where people can overhear.

        As someone who is remote 90% of the time, I personally don’t get the whole “I’m sick of looking at the same four walls” thing because I love my house; I decorated my house to my taste and for my enjoyment and so it would take a lot for me to get sick of it to the point I felt like I needed to go work around strangers. However, there was a point when they were working on the Internet infrastructure in our neighborhood and so I had to go to a local library branch and work for a couple of days, and that was a great option (as others have mentioned).

        Despite the OP saying that jobs are either remote or in-office where she is, I do not think mostly or fully-remote work is for everyone, and if someone is both so concerned about social interaction they’re fishing around for ideas about where else they can work, but also so budget-concerned that they won’t spring for a coworking space – maybe this opportunity is not right for OP. We all need to know our own limits, and what gives us energy and what takes our energy in negative ways. For me, being in an office all day and having to put up with people coming by to gossip about coworkers or complain about their personal lives was energy-draining, and completely antithetical to achieving productivity. But some people just love that. If OP is in the latter camp, she needs an in-office job.

        1. Admittedly, I’m new to this diet, so maybe there are solutions I’m not thinking of. I have chronic gastritis that’s currently pretty severe so I’m not eating any baked goods, things made with white flour, any caffeine, any carbonated beverage, coffee or tea, or things with added sugar.

          I pretty much eat non-acidic fruits and veggies, meats (mostly fish or chicken), minimally processed whole grains.

          I’m also trying to avoid temptation because this diet is quite the change for me, so sitting in a coffee shop with bagels and lattes would be quite tempting for me.

      3. Highly recommend looking for your closest county library branch. Ours are very large and have great rooms that can be reserved.

        1. In my city libraries mostly serve as unofficial homeless shelters. I’m happy that there is somewhere warm for them to go, but it’s not really conducive to working.

          1. You really seem ready to dismiss every very reasonable suggestion you’re getting.

          2. Many of them have reserved rooms. Those are fine for working. Also, so long as they’re big enough to sit away from the smelliest folks, I’ve never had an issue working in a room where there is also a homeless person. The group of homeless people spending time in libraries are typically not disruptive. A person with a large backpack who has gone a little longer between showers is not hugely different to a college student in my experience.

    14. I’m the poster above who just put her notice in at a job that was 100% remote and I couldn’t do it. The other place I’d look at is community centers. Several in my area have a community work space that is free to drop into. We also have a really great used book store that i’ve gone to work at for a few hours at a time – they have a little coffee shop attached to it.

      I think the key for any of those spaces is to think of them as a “2 hour” block of work time, not the full day.

    15. See if the coworking spaces near you have a punch pass or other less-costly membership option. Also, extremely random but Ikea during the day is pretty great with the coffee refills and free wifi.

    16. If there are other things about the coffee shop that appeal to you, buy a $3 latte/pastry, throw it out, and consider it your ‘rent’ for the day. The coffee shop doesn’t care if you consume the item.

        1. That’s smart. I was thinking that my suggestion was wasteful – but that’s a good solution.

      1. I was just in a suburban Panera on a weekday (driving past on a long trip), and there were a few people there with laptops working.

    18. I use my LifeTime Fitness as a coworking space, and it’s in use by a lot of people. Might be worth a look – they are actually opening additional spaces for coworking. You could swap it for LAFitness.

      1. Lifetime is specifically why I mentioned that my gym isn’t conducive to working from! I used to belong to one and it was the BEST! I would totally work from a Lifetime. Sadly, I moved and there aren’t any Lifetimes near me anymore.

    19. I used to study long hours for my actuarial exams at a local private college library. It would work for remote work as long as you’re not on a zoom or a phone call. It was very quiet and lush. I loved that place. It was open to the public.

      1. As a former barista, I appreciate the lively discussion about not camping out in coffee shops all day!

  8. Help me set boundaries with a creepy coworker. She is Midwestern, at least 15 years older than me, and a bit odd. Her daughters live far away so she wants to fill a void by being a mother figure to me. She asks me about personal stuff at work, like whether I plan to have more kids, whether I could BF, etc. Before I had a kid she said she knew of a teen mom and asked if I wanted her baby. She describes dreams she had about me having more kids. One time she left me a gift on my desk and I asked her to take it back. Our work doesn’t overlap so I don’t have any reason to interact with her professionally, though I do see her in staff meetings. WFH has been great because I got some distance from her, but we will be starting a hybrid schedule in a couple weeks and I am dreading when she inevitably comes to my cubicle to chat and make me very uncomfortable. How do I set boundaries with her without burning bridges?

      1. I see anyone with headphones are as telling me “FU go away” and never talk to them.

        1. yeah this is too blanket of a solution for one specific person.

          I would practice friendly brush-offs to minimize engagement on the personal stuff. “whoa whoa whoa TMI alert! How was your weekend?” or to something like the dream thing “good thing you woke up! How was your weekend?”

        2. I’d recommend paying attention to other cues as well. in office, I wear headphones pretty much constantly because I struggle to do focus work if I can hear all the office sounds. I usually have classical music on quietly. But I’m happy to speak to someone if they want to chat.

    2. “Hi Susan! Oh, I’m not comfortable talking about that” “that’s a very personal question! Please don’t ask me things like that it makes me uncomfortable” “I prefer to focus on work at work”.

    3. “Oh, I’m not talking about personal stuff at work anymore. How are your grandbabies?”

      (She asked if you wanted SOMEONE ELSE’S BABY? that is bananas.)

      1. This invites more personal thought by pivoting to her discussing something personal. Better to just say I wish I could chat but I really need to focus on work and keep any convos work focused. Rinse repeat.

        1. Oh, good possibility – I was assuming she’d take the bait and just talk about herself endlessly. Clueless people like this often do.

      2. Re: “do you want this teen mom’s baby?” – I feel like creepiness is in the eye of the beholder, but that was a great illustrative example for the OP to give because, yep – that is definitively creepy. Full stop.

        OP, in the past I have dealt with coworkers who wanted too much information about my personal life by either A. changing the subject to talk about TV – I can talk about TV all day long, and there are very few people who never watch TV, so it can be a great way to engage people without getting personal. I have also resorted to making things up, but make sure they are the blandest lies I can possibly formulate. I try to give off the vibe that my life is so boring that nothing I do and nothing that happens to me could possibly be of any interest to anyone. Eventually, if you only tell boring stories, people stop asking questions about your personal life.

        1. +1 I hate the personal work chit chat/weekend check in, so I only talk about my dog. I say white lies all the time. I’ve been doing this for years. People have generally stopped asking me because they think I’m boring!

          “How was your weekend?”
          Me: Good, went for a nice walk with my dog. / I went to the dog park with my pooch. / My dog was sad it rained. She hates the rain. / My dog loved the sunshine. / My dog found a nice stick. / My dog met a new friend.

          1. I do the same. My weekend was great, I did either nothing or cleaned my house or something else equally boring.

          2. Your responses made me laugh and I bet they work. I’d probably go this route with a difficult coworker. I wouldn’t take this as a blanket approach to everyone though because two of my closest friends are women I found at work, and I would have missed out on them if they’d decided I was boring. But there’s clearly a cost/benefit analysis here that only you can make.

          3. “I would have missed out on them if they’d decided I was boring.”

            I objectively am boring, and my real friends love me anyway.

            Not all of us go to work trying to be Miss Sparkling Personality and find friends. I already have friends.

          4. Anon at 1:21. Boring AND nasty. Good thing you found people who like you anyway. Why is this board so mad at anyone who wants friends at work?

          5. Anon at 3:48 – Ooh, looks like we found the person who goes around asking their coworkers if they want a free baby!

    4. This is so out of line. If it was a dude, I’d be in HR in 10 seconds flat.

      Maybe you have to use your words, as someone suggested, and say you don’t want to talk about these things. Repeat maybe 1 more time m ax and then ask for additional support. I’m not for hitting the nuclear HR button in general, but asking about BF-ing? If you want someone else’s child? if you’re going to have more children? Nope, nope and nope.

      1. This. Avoid the HR button but there isn’t much wrong with saying “this is not professional and not appropriate for a coworker.”

    5. “That’s not something I discuss at work. How was your weekend?”
      “I need to focus right now.”
      “I am uncomfortable with how much you talk to me about family planning.”

      1. Or even, for the last, “Oh, I am not comfortable talking about family planning with work colleagues”. Takes the focus off her, neutralizes it. This lady seems to think you have a personal connection, I’d make it clear somehow that you don’t see it that way, she’s just another coworker.

    6. Can you find out her hybrid schedule and avoid being in the office on the days she is?

    7. She actually randomly asked you if you wanted someone else’ baby!? And telling you about her dreams of you having another kid!? What a wingnut!
      I would go with telling her you’re not discussing personal subjects anymore and redirect the conversation to a work topic…”I’d rather not discuss that, do you have XYZ?”
      If she pushes you for a reason why you don’t want to talk about it tell her something like it’s part of a new work/life balance you’re working on…

    8. I agree with all of the above ideas, but would just add that if she continues to chat you up (even if it’s just about non creepy stuff), do you have a friend who can call you after a few minutes to “rescue” you? I had a co worker who would never stop chatting about inane stuff with me and my office neighbor would see it and call to get me out of it. Not the most assertive approach, I know, but it worked.

    9. If you don’t want to burn bridges and tell her bluntly to mind her own business, you could try redirecting the conversation along a path that is more work-oriented.

      Instead of asking about her weekend, can you ask bland questions like what inbox management techniques she finds most efficient, if she finds any particular filing system to work better for collaborative projects, etc.?

    10. Can you be in a time crunch to get things done whenever she comes by your desk? I think it’s helpful to make small talk with colleagues sometimes and occasionally chat even with folks who aren’t your cup of tea. However, she sounds invasive enough that it may be nice to become so boring to her that she moves on. “Hi, good to see you. I’m so sorry–can’t chat now, got to remain focused/get this document out/etc” would be really useful.

      If she still manages invasive questions (in the elevator, etc), I think it’s fine to say “that’s really personal and not something I talk about at work” and the next time “that’s really personal. please don’t ask me that kind of thing.” I think it’s a kindness to be polite and direct in this kind of situation.

      I’d really appreciate a polite and direct word if I was making someone uncomfortable–way better than continuing to make someone feel that I’m creepy. That said, I don’t ask invasive questions and do generally try to make people comfortable, so maybe my point view isn’t relevant.

    11. I like how you threw Midwestern in as one of the personality descriptors. I LOLed.

      1. I was about to comment on this – I’m a Midwesterner and some of the wackest most unprofessional people I know are from the coasts. There are crazies everywhere, please don’t paint all Midwesterners with this brush!!

      2. East coast transplant to the Midwest. I feel like at least back home, it wasn’t unprofessional to keep your work life separate from your personal life, or to do a stiff upper lip routine.

        Daaaammmn people here think they are being “friendly” when they ask super invasive questions about your life, especially about reproducing. I’m not a fruit fly – I do something with my life beside make copies of myself. Ask about that or MYOB.

    12. So many responses/suggestions are so soft and women-must-be-nice-at-all-times. Either ignore her questions, don’t reply to her questions, or say “I’m not discussing my personal life.” This woman needs a blunt, strong response because she’s been catered to by people who are trying not to offend.

    13. If you don’t work with her and you don’t like her, what is the downside to burning the bridge? She can glare at you across the staff meeting if she likes. It’s ok to be blunt and tell her when she’s being inappropriate, ignore her when she keeps talking at you, and give grey rock answers if you really need to respond. Also consider telling your boss and/or her boss that she’s being creepy.

  9. I am more than happy to share my pronouns in meetings and any other setting. I’m actually one of the few people in my org to have them in my email signature. However, I find it so fake when someone asks for your pronouns and then continues to call you by your preferred name. For example, I’m an Elizabeth who goes by Liz. My email signature is Liz, I sign my emails as Liz, and I introduce myself as Liz. I only go by Liz. However, my email address is Elizabeth.lastname@employer.com. I cannot tell you how many people reply to my emails calling me Elizabeth.

    Overall it’s not that big of a deal, I don’t really mind Elizabeth (though I do mind the repeated use of a name I don’t use). What really drives me crazy, however, are the worst offenders of who calls me Elizabeth. It’s a copy editor and the DEI coordinator. You’d think that the copy editor would have a better eye for this detail, and you’d think that the DEI coordinator would be more sensitive to respecting what people prefer to be called!

    I don’t care enough to correct them, it just seems odd given their jobs that these individuals continually call me the wrong thing.

    1. Ugh, that is mildly annoying. I’ve got a non hyphenated but double barrelled surname, and that’s my fault, but please spell my first name right.

      I teach uni and have started correcting students when it’s particularly egregious – “dear sir”, “hey” because it feels like an important life skill.

      1. I’m hiring for an entry-level position and getting Dear Sir / Madam cover letters…it’s so awkward!

    2. I hear you. It’s mildly annoying for sure.
      My name ends in A but 95% of people end up calling me the variation that ends in E (think Maria/Marie)…

    3. It sounds like you do care. Next time, start your reply email “Please call me Liz.” You deserve to be called by your name.

      1. My email address is my first name – which is one of two similar but different versions of the name. What drives me crazy is that people start emails with “Hi ” Don’t you even notice what my address is? (and signature and directory entry and everything else)

    4. That would drive me bananas, especially because you make it so easy by putting Liz in your email signature.

    5. Honestly, it’s because the inclusion of pronouns thing is just performative. You can see how much attention any of these people are paying to your signature block at all (which is none).

    6. I don’t have exactly this problem because my first name doesn’t have any nicknames, but people are forever misspelling my last name *even when I spell it out for them* like at the pharmacy counter. My last name isn’t particularly common, but it’s one you’ve heard of, and it has two common spellings that are plus or minus a letter, like Adams/Addams. If I’m taking the time to spell it out for you, it’s because my name is not something easy like Grant and I know there’s a high chance you’re going to spell it wrong. Please pay attention to what I’m saying!

      And I cannot tell you how many emails I get for the person who has my same personal email address (but with the extra letter). Once I got a “sorry to inform you but you didn’t get the job” email, but what was even more egregious was the one from one of her family members who shares her last name.

    7. What does your email title say? Can you change that to Liz, so emails show up in people’s inbox’s as Liz instead of Elizabeth, even if the address still says Elizabeth? I suspect that constantly seeing Elizabeth in their email reinforces the wrong name in their head! And as someone who regularly emails with people I don’t know, this is a situation I always find confusing, because I never know if I should go with the formal name in the email or the nickname someone signed with. I work at a university where people definitely have the ability to change the email title, so I assume that’s what they want me to call them, at least until I actually know them, and I’d definitely feel bad if I found out they were mad that when I was addressing them by that name out of politeness, they thought I was ignoring their preference.

      1. You ignore when someone repeatedly uses their preferred name because of the full name the org assigned to their email address? Please no. Most places it’s just whatever email format the org uses with zero ability to customize. They are 100% demonstrating to you what they want to be called.

        1. Not repeatedly, but when I’m emailing someone I’ve never met once or twice in a formal context? And their signature says David but they sign the email Dave? That’s the kind of thing I’m talking about.

          1. For the first outreach sure, use David. But once you see him sign off Dave, I think he’s telling you to call him Dave.

          2. See, I absolutely would in normal emails and anyone I actually continue to interact with. But does this change in formal emails like job interviews and formal notifications? I feel like those situations should err on the side of formality and go with David (if not Dr. Last Name, though not everyone has a PhD), but if it was someone like OP who claims that her name really isn’t Elizabeth, I guess I’d handle it differently.

          3. lol. No one has time to remember all the nicknames of every person they email during the day.

        2. I disagree with this,if OP hasn’t interacted in person such that they know she’s Liz, and all communication is linked to her official work account, it’s confusing to see Elizabeth. I would ask IT to change your email to the name you actually use.

      2. I’ve been in higher ed for eight years and I’ve never been able to change my email address short of an official name change (like when I got married).
        If I’m initiating an email, I go by the name in their address. If they sign off their email with something different, that’s what I use in all further communication.

      3. Exactly. I try to look at what someone puts in their signature line, rather than the email address, but many many many times there is no signature line or sign off! If that is the case, I am sorry, but I have to call you by the name in your email address!

      4. Yeah my husband got his email changed to the short form of his name and then everyone remembered. Think Rick rather than Richard or Rick because there were already plenty of the latter two.

    8. Commiseration! I get called all kinds of wrong names in email. My first name gets changed to the masculine version of my name (think Alex when I’m Alexa). Sometimes I’m called by my last name, which is also a male first name (think James for Alexa James). It’s hard to understand why people are so careless, but I still see this frequently.

      1. Commiseration. My first name somehow gets confused with another, more popular, first name, and my last name is a woman’s first name. Think, I’m Brenda Kelly and get called Brittany or Kelly all the time.

      2. I used to get a lot of confusion at a previous job where my email “from” came through as LastName, FirstName. My last name is a common man’s first name internationally, and my first name is somewhat unusual, so people would look quickly and address me as “Mr. FirstName”. I really didn’t care, and didn’t bother to correct them. I did meet a few people in person who were surprised I was a white lady and not a brown man based on what they thought my name was.

    9. I am very confused about how asking for your pronouns or DEI have anything to do with the fact that you prefer Liz to Elizabeth. Are you worried that DEI isn’t about you and you need to find a way to make it about you?

      1. I read it more as if you’re going to ask people their pronouns, you should also make sure you use the correct name.

      2. To me, both proper pronouns and using the correct name shows that you see that person and respect them on a very basic level. A DEI person should be attuned to both of those things. It’s inclusive to use people’s names properly.

      3. Seriously?
        If you are going to ask me to use your correct pronouns then you can use my correct name.
        How is this a question you need to ask?

      4. How are you confused? If you pretend to care about pronouns, then pretend to care about names, too. Are you worried OP is attacking you?

    10. I was raised with the idea that it was rude to use someone’s nickname in formal communication or when I don’t know the person well. I understand that times have changed and that you feel you are signaling your preferred name in a conventional way, but I’ve also regularly encountered people who are offended if I address them the way same they sign their email (e.g. a professor who uses a very casual signature like a first name or initials, but absolutely wants to be referred to as Dr. Last Name in a salutation). So it’s not a reliable indicator for issues of formality.

      Is it possible that the copy editor and the DEI coordinator think they’re being conscientiously respectful?

      3. This is so odd to me. If someone introduces themselves with a nickname, then that’s what they want you to use. Especially as a peer.

      4. It has always been polite to address people by the name they go by. And many workplaces have IT teams who don’t care or don’t have time to change your name in their directory. If I tell you my name is Jenny and sign my emails that way, don’t call me Jennifer to be “polite”.

    11. They probably think of nicknames as informal or (overly?) familiar not as a preferred name. If you want to be called Liz then I think you should have your org change your email address to Liz. Fair warning it might be a PITA. Some people get really caught up on so-called official policies* requiring people to go by their full legal first name. You just have to accept that you’re going to be “difficult” about this thing and be polite but firm.

      *Weirdly, the same thing happened when I bought a new car. The car’s message when you open the door greeted me with my full first name, which I don’t use. I asked for it to be changed, but the salesperson told me their official policy requires them to use the full first name on the paperwork. Which makes no sense, I refuse to believe every Matt who has ever bought this car is out there being called Matthew like his car is scolding him. I said oh that’s unfortunate but I know this will be a constant annoyance to me so I’ll have to cancel the contract as is permitted by my state and go elsewhere, perhaps to buy this same car from a different dealership that doesn’t follow this “official policy” like yours does, so sad that your hands are tied I know you’d do it if you could. Yeah they changed the name. People are just used to women rolling over and not making them do annoying work they don’t want to do.

      1. That’s actually something DEI has made easier, many people are changing their first names these days. If you haven’t tried recently, it’s probably easier than you think.

      2. I could see that if it was a true nickname (like a college friend nickname that’s not derived from a real name), but a shortened version of a full name is not overly familiar. Especially if she’s signing off emails as Liz.

        Elizabeth is a little trickier because it has so many short forms, but I bet most Michaels and Matthews don’t have so much trouble being called Mike or Matt. If anything, I know a Michael who prefers Michael but gets called Mike against his will all the time.

    12. I’m a Katherine by go by Katie. I didn’t want to have to keep correcting peoples so I asked IT if they could change the way my email displayed (not the email address itself) to show Katie. The response was “yeah, of course. We don’t know why more people don’t ask for this.” My husband works for a really, really large bank and they did this for him as well (again, just the way it displays, not the actual email address). His nickname also starts with the same letter as his full name.

      So while you make not be able to change the actual email, you can often change the way it’s displayed.

      1. yes asking to have a different alias for your email address is the way to go!

  10. What are your favorite things to get at uniqlo? Im eyeing the heattech turtlenecks and would like to add more to my order. Mainly looking for tops (but open to anything) – sweaters and tees – to wear around the house, run errands, do school pick up. First time ordering from there. thanks!

    1. My wardrobe is probably 60% Uniqlo. I’ve really liked the Comptoir collaboration that just came out. Nice sweaters. I also got some cool cords but annoyingly I bought them too big.

      I like the black jeggings with hiking boots.

    2. Their puffer stuff is fantastic, lightweight and wears like iron. The rest of their offerings do nothing for me.

    3. The heattech stuff is great, esp the liners for under pants. I also have the ultralite down jacket with snap closure which has proven to be a workhorse.

    5. I like the ultra stretch legging pants. I also have a nice thin foldable rain coat from there.
      I needed a simple suit and bought one from there – its not formal enough for a law firm but works for my “I sometimes need a black blazer or black work pants” use cases.

    8. I love their light weight puffer vests. I have them in several colors and wear them constantly in cooler weather — alone or under or over a jacket.

    9. I wear the thinnest heattech and airism options as an underlayer under sweaters, pants, or silk blouses I don’t want to have to wash as frequently.

    10. My uniqlo staples:
      Puffer vest.
      Skirts (with pockets!)
      Short sleeve tshirts for basics
      Shirt dresses
      I love the slouchy look of their 3D knit sweaters.

  12. I had my first mammogram last week, and the results show some asymmetry in one breast that needs to be further evaluated. Statistically, it’s very very likely to be nothing. Is till can’t stop worrying about it.

    1. Would you rather have a few days worrying about the additional testing or have months/years of a problem that is growing? FWIW, I was regularly called back for follow up mammograms. I freaked out the first time and then stopped even being concerned about them…just went back had additional pictures taken and then was on my way. It happened at least 4 times. Then, this year, I had to go back in June and the doctors really did find something. I was glad that I had regular mammograms and glad for the early detection of my cancer. Getting checked out is always a good thing and I am hoping for the best for you.

      1. Definitley glad to be getting things checked out. Just nervous due to some recent cancer diagnosis and deaths in my family.

    2. If it was your first, it’s very, very common to be called back. They have no comparison, so they want to make sure they are thorough. I know waiting is hard, but be so, so glad you’re being proactive about your health.

    3. Had this exact same experience last month with my first. It sucked; I was fine in the end. Solidarity, sister.

  13. I’m hosting my in laws for Thanksgiving. I’m fine for the Thanksgiving meal itself, but always a little thrown off by the other meals. What do you serve a house full of guests the night before Thanksgiving? Thanksgiving morning?

    1. morning: cinnamon rolls (buy the frozen kind you just heat up – they are very good), bacon, fruit. done.

    2. Always something simple. The night before we might order in or make something simple like a one pot pasta meal. Breakfast and lunch the day of are always get your own.

    3. The night before thanksgiving we always do takeout pizza or going out to pizza. The morning of there is yogurt or they can make toast

    5. Night before, chili, veggie tray, and some kind of cornbread/crackers/rolls. Extra points if the veggies for the tray are the same ones you’ll need for Thanksgiving and you can just buy in quantitity, and if the cornbread is what you’d use for stuffing anyway and you can just make a double batch.

      Or order in pizza. Or a fajita tray from a local restaurant.

      Morning of, cereal, fruit, bagels, cream cheeses, yogurt. Set it all out and everyone serves themselves.

    6. I’m fond of going out to eat the night before Thanksgiving, especially if you do any of the cooking/prep for Thanksgiving the day before. Then you wouldn’t have to be doing that and also cooking a meal for that night. But at-home meal options should lean to something totally different from Turkey Day, like spaghetti and meatballs, pizza, stir fry/Asian style meal, tacos/enchiladas, etc.

    7. The night before, we order in or go out. Perhaps your husband can suggest to your inlaws that they pick up the tab for dinner out on Wednesday to give you a break from hosting? There usually literally isn’t enough space in my fridge for any additional food at this point as the turkey is taking up so much space.
      Morning of I send someone out to grab bagels (insert breakfast bakery item of your choosing if you don’t like bagels). This is paired with a fruit salad, coffee, and a strong suggestion for everyone to then get the heck out of the kitchen so the cooking can start in earnest.

    8. Quiche (premade, heat in oven), bagels, muffins.

      Night before – if people are into it, Indian. It makes for fantastic and relatively compact leftovers, so anyone who gets hungry for lunch before the big Thanksgiving meal has something easy to eat.

    9. The night before is something extremely simple like steak and salad if not restaurant/takeout.

      Breakfast for me would be overnight waffles, bacon, eggs if someone really wants them. And a cheese and charcuterie plate goes out during midday to stave off any complaints about timing.

      1. I agree that steak is easy to make but wow, I would not want that before a big heavy thanksgiving dinner!!

    10. We always go out the night before (so fun to see everyone who is in town!).

      For breakfast, I don’t make anything. I just make sure I have breakfast foods on hand: yogurt, cereal, fruit, eggs. I would probably buy some bagels. I wouldn’t necessarily even push eggs or something that needs to be cooked, there’s already a lot going on in the kitchen on thanksgiving morning.

    11. Our tradition is to do a Chandler Thanksgiving the night before: grilled cheese, tomato soup and funions. It’s silly, but also the idea is to go as far opposite from thanksgiving food as possible.

      1. I love this! Could also add a trifle made with beef sautéed with peas and onions ;)

    12. Night before is lighter fare…soups and salad. We’ve also done pizza. What time are you serving Thanksgiving dinner? mid day or evening? I am always busy in my kitchen morning of Thanksgiving so I would do something that doesn’t require cooking….bagels and cream cheese, hard boiled eggs, yogurt and fruit, juice and coffee. All of these can be purchased and put out for guests to take what they like.

    13. The night before we usually order hero sandwiches from a great deli in the area. Also great because we have lots of family arriving at different times. In the morning I do cinnamon rolls — prepped the day before and refrigerated, so I just put them in the oven and start the coffee maker in the morning. A relative also bring her famous pumpkin apple muffins and they get put out in the morning and serve as encouragement for everyone to get up early because they go quick. The day after, it’s usually eggs and random leftovers. I often make a pan of biscuits to go with the eggs.

      1. OP here. This will be at our weekend place, which is quite rural and takeout isn’t an option (otherwise I’d definitely do that). With the massive feast on Thanksgiving day, I definitely don’t want anything too heavy before. Indian or Asian is a good idea.

    14. For dinner: Easy casserole (tuna noodle?) or tortellini or Cincinnati chili, each served with a salad and a warmed up baguette sliced diagonally.
      For breakfast: Continental breakfast — bagels, croissants, toast, muffins, with butter, jam peanut butter, cream cheese, Nutella, slices of cheese, and boxed cereal with milk for the kids, plus coffee, tea, orange and/or cranberry juice. You can put out a fruit bowl, too — bananas, apples, oranges, pears, grapes, etc.
      Enjoy!

  14. since so many cold medicines are being pulled from the shelves, what are you taking these days? or do none of htem do anything?

    1. If you can get the kind with pseudoephedrine in it–usually behind the counter at the pharmacy–that works.

      1. Yep, behind the counter, show your drivers license and you’re good. It’s the only thing that actually works for congestion. Whatever they’re putting in the fake Sudafed is basically a placebo – I saw an academic paper on this somewhere.

          1. “ Is phenylephrine just like pseudoephedrine? Regarding its effectiveness as a treatment for nasal congestion, the answer is no. In fact, some research has found that at the current recommended doses of phenylephrine it offers minimal symptom improvement. It may be safer for people with high blood pressure and heart disease, but there is not enough research to be certain.”

        2. Oh that’s good to know because I’m allergic to Sudafed and some version of it is now in all cold medicines. I will investigate if the “fake” one is different enough.

          1. The fake one doesn’t work at all though! I’d try something else entirely like NAC or Mucinex. I never use cold meds with more than one ingredient though.

    3. OTC dayquil paired with the behind the counter sudafed (I just buy generic) works well, plus Mucinex DM if I have a ‘productive’ (what a gross term!) cough.

    4. I find that phenylephedrine works for me when taken at prescription strength (40 mg 2x day). Shrug.

    5. Mucinex and benadryl and Sudafed (brand-name only, not store brand), plus aspirin, ibuprofen, or acetaminophen. In the past, I swore by Alka-Seltzer cold products, super-effective! I don’t know about their current formulas, however.

    1. Same. My first thought was going back 5 years or so, this place would NEVER have shown a pic like that without everyone going “ew frumpy” in the comments.

      1. Which just goes to show that yesterday’s frumpy is today’s fashionable.

        And vice versa.

    4. I like both of those! I think the ones you have and posted before are probably fine for what you described, but if you are self conscious in any way better avoid that extra angst in the interview. Good luck!!

    5. I saw your original post and immediately heard Morgan Freeman’s voice in my head saying, “I mean, seriously, how often do you really look at a man’s shoes?” FWIW I think the green would be fine, especially with a black suit, but I also agree that I rarely look at a man’s shoes.

  17. Solidarity thread: all of us on a tight budget for whatever reason but dying at the awesome sales and snazzy fall clothing. I have resisted but it hurts. Here’s to more plentiful times ahead!

      2. Well you just missed 50% off and free shipping at AT. But they seem to repeat this a lot right now. Boden keeps sending discounts. I mean it feels like everywhere! Also, fall shoes…

    2. Here with you. I am also suddenly interested in makeup and skincare when I can’t afford it.

    3. A tight budget is why I shop second hand, lol. I know all of this snazzy fall clothing will be in second hand stores in a few months, so I just bide my time and keep watch.

  18. i realize that all news reporting has some bias. what is the best place to get simple facts, or even facts reported with some sort of statement about how sure they are of the facts they are reporting…last week it was Israel bombed a hospital and 500 people were dead, then a few hours later, maybe Hamas bombed the hospital and it was more like 200-300 people….people dying is terrible no matter how many and while everyone is human and makes mistakes, there are certain circumstances when mistakes are more ‘ok’ than others. why don’t journalists at least qualify their statements? or say how sure/unsure they are?

    1. They do. They say things like “reportedly” and “it appears.”

      Could we not with this again?

    2. I’d look to the BBC to this. They absolutely aren’t perfect but they are heavily regulated unlike American news outlets, so do a better job with nuance. I’ve been listening to The Conflict, the podcast on the current crisis, and it’s heartbreaking but it seems to be doing a good job representing multiple angles.

      1. American here – I generally go by “Nothing is real until the BBC covers it”.

    3. I always wait a few days to read in-depth reporting about an event like that, rather than the same day. It is impossible to know exactly what happened instantaneously, especially in a fast-moving war where there are numerous groups with a vested interest in spreading misinformation.

        1. I’m a big fan of of the Economist partially for this – they’re essentially a weekly magazine, rather than a daily paper; and therefore can have more analysis and tend to publish a few days /after/ the initial event so the fact pattern has had more time to settle (and, the vast majority of the time, I don’t actually need the minute by minute live coverage, and can’t act on it in any useful way. Slower more in depth coverage is a lot more useful to me in terms of being an informed global citizen)

    4. There is no one source that you can go to for this; you have to read multiple sources. I even read Fox News, even though I find that whole news organization repugnant, because I think it’s important to understand multiple points of view. If you just read Al-Jazeera, or just read The Jerusalem Post, you’re not going to get the full picture on anything. When news breaks, I look at AP, Reuters, CNN, The New York Times, The Washington Post and Fox News and across those sources I can get a pretty good idea of what’s happening. Reuters and AP are about the most neutral sources I have encountered but even they are not going to have up-to-the-minute information that is also 100% accurate 100% of the time. Breaking news doesn’t work that way. Things are happening fast and with millions of people packed into a small area, it’s very difficult even for people on the ground to know exactly what is going on minute by minute, as it happens. If you’re really looking for unbiased journalism, do the above. If you’re looking for pro- or anti- viewpoints, stick with one source, whatever fits your philosophical perspective.

    5. The New York Times has issued an editor’s note not exactly apologizing, but saying that it was wrong to issue breaking headlines blaming Israel on Hamas’ word alone. There is also an article in today’s paper highlighting that Hamas has still not presented a shred of evidence that Israel was responsible for the explosion (in contrast to the extensive evidence presented by Israel, the U.S., and independent news agencies that showed it was a misfire by Islamic Jihad). Too little, too late. I too am interested in future reporting from places that do this better.

      1. This is a great chart and generally aligns with my understanding. Is anyone familiar with a similar chart of foreign news sources (not just the UK ones here)? Realizing that left and right may not perfectly fit, but they must align in some way.

    8. You cannot get “just the facts” because there is bias in just deciding what “facts” are newsworthy (and it is obviously impossible to report all facts everywhere every day. And there is bias in deciding which facts to repeat and how often. The best solution is to read multiple sources (although honestly, I draw the line at regularly reading Fox News as useful as it is in understanding the polarization in the USA).

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