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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. (Happy sigh) — gorgeous. Gorgeous! I love everything about this graphic sheath dress — the high split V neckline, the knife pleats and fitted bodice, and the fact that it's lined in 100% silk. I'd skip the (mesh?!) booties and wear it with classic pumps and a blazer, with one of them being a fun color (these hot pink/burgundy heels would be fun with a black blazer, for example). The dress is $1,195. Lela Rose Slit Front Sheath Dress Psst: I just noticed that Theory is having a 25% off sale sitewide (ends 4/30) — nice! Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-4)Sales of note for 9.16.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 30% off wear-now styles
- J.Crew Factory – (ends 9/16 PM): 40% off everything + extra 70% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Extra 25% off all tops + markdowns
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
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Anonymous
With wedding season starting, I thought it was a good time to ask about wedding attire.
(1) For summer weddings, what colors are considered “taboo”? I ask because I am trying to decide between bright red and black. I know some people say to wear whatever you want either way, but I am curious either way.
(2) I see a lot of people wearing sheath style dresses to weddings. In my opinion, these dresses sometimes look like what I would wear with a blazer to the office or to a work function. Am I missing something? Where are all the fun c*cktail dresses and where can I buy one (that is affordable – $100-$200)?
DontBlameTheKids
I love summer weddings! Since you asked, though, I would not wear either red or black to a wedding. Red is too attention-grabbing, but maybe it just depends on the dress itself, and although I don’t really have a problem with black, I know too many people who consider it unlucky at weddings to chance it.
AIMS
Yep. Technically, if you’re worried about what is “taboo,” black and red are both traditionally inappropriate. I’ve worn both and seen both worn, but if you want to be a stickler for rules, there you go. FWIW, when I’ve worn red it was either darker red or a light red with a print, and the black was always sparkly festive black – don’t want to look like you’re in mourning.
For (2), weddings have different dress codes (obviously). Sheath dresses are more appropriate at some wedding than others.
Miss Behaved
I’ve worn red and black to weddings. I think it’s okay. Is the red a print?
As for sheath dresses, oftentimes they’re just the most flattering style.
Anita
For a summer wedding, the red seems like a better choice. I don’t have a problem with black dresses at weddings, per se, but I think they are more appropriate in the fall or winter. As for the sheath dress issue, they are the best fit for some people and are fine for afternoon or cocktail weddings but perhaps not a black-tie event.
Scully
(1) Obviously white and cream are out. I think red and black are okay (northeast US), but kind of boring/uncreative/not summery enough. Weddings are a great chance to roll out prints, fun colors and textures, feminine details, and lots of lace. You can also go with a skirt (possibly floaty organza) and cute top, rather than a dress.
(2) Anthropologie is great for wedding guest dresses (whimsy galore!). In past seasons, I also have a few silk floral patterned Banana Republic dresses that are wedding staples. I haven’t seen anything I’ve liked there for a while, but the spring season might be worth checking out. I also have a few cute cocktail dresses from the Limited from a few years back- they’re not the greatest quality, but for something that will only be worn a few times, I don’t mind.
Also, Rent the Runway is an option.
lucy stone
I don’t think red or black are taboo, but for a summer wedding, I’d try to make sure I was wearing them with bright/light jewelry. I tend to like wearing florals to summer weddings, or a fancier sundress with fun jewelry.
TO Lawyer
I’ve worn a red silky dress to a wedding before – it was more of a coral red rather than a darker red but I thought it was perfect for a summer wedding.
I would avoid pastel colours – a friend wore mint to a wedding and it almost photographed white. I would definitely avoid a sheath dress if you can (I agree – I feel like they’re work attire and I would want an opportunity to wear something fun and that I can’t wear 4 days a week!)
Diana Barry
I have worn a (the same one) red dress to a few weddings. Never felt like it was out of place. However, a true red feels more like a fall-spring color than a summer color to me, kwim?
Black – used to be not OK but in major metro areas, particularly NYC, you are going to see a LOT of people wearing black dresses.
Re: your last question, I haven’t seen this, but perhaps we run with different wedding crowds. :)
Anonymous
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/laundry-by-shelli-segal-spaghetti-strap-ruched-jersey-dress/3744945?origin=category-personalizedsort&contextualcategoryid=0&fashionColor=Red&resultback=1003&cm_sp=personalizedsort-_-browseresults-_-1_3_B
This was the dress I was thinking about. Thoughts?
HSAL
Depending on your body type, that my be a bit over the top/attention grabbing for a wedding.
Need to Improve
I think it’s cute and I don’t think it’s too attention-grabbing at all. I have seen people wear far less modest dresses (e.g., major cleavage) to weddings. I disagree with the notion that a woman should not be dressing to “seek attention.” I think you should dress however you want within bounds of propriety knowing that people’s grandmothers, priests, etc. will be there, but a body-hugging dress is not unacceptable. Nor is red. Unless the bridal couple are the kind of people who are going to be upset that someone is wearing red at their wedding (are there people like that?), then rock the dress!
locomotive
I think this is so classy and nice – the peach/orangey color is perfect for a summer wedding. I don’t think it’s too attention grabbing at all.
Curly Sue
I got this dress for wedding season this year: http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/betsey-johnson-cutout-fit-flare-dress/3571764?origin=keywordsearch. I’m pretty confident it will be fine, as it has some touches (“poppy” red, cutouts) that make it feel more summery.
AttiredAttorney
Love this dress!
emeralds
Agreed. That’s adorable and I would wear it to alllll the summer events!
Alanna of Trebond
Red is verboten for many Indian and Chinese weddings for the same reason that white is disfavored for western/Christian weddings–it is the color that the bride will be wearing.
snowy
That’s interesting- I was told that you were supposed to wear red to a Chinese wedding because it was good luck! (I didn’t wear red, but in any case the bride was wearing white, not red)
SouthAsian
It’s not the end of the world if you wear red to a South Asian wedding. Many brides wear different colors now, including white.
Alanna of Trebond
Yes, this is true. :-)
hoola hoopa
In my area (PNW) black is safe and common even at summer weddings. Red and other bold colors/prints are iffy since they grab so much more attention than black. My opinion is heavily tinted by a particular wedding where a spouse of a groomsman wore BRIGHT RED and STOOD OUT in every picture. The bride ended up using mostly black/white photos when she was in the pic.
Sheaths are common. It’s convenient, flattering, and comfortable for a lot of women. It’s definitely not a no-no, but you don’t have to either.
I think the dress you linked is fine for most summer weddings, although I’d definitely plan a good cover up for church weddings and probably wear something else altogether for a conservative wedding. I’d get the black because it would be much more versatile for day/night, formal/casual. And people are less likely to remember that you wore it at another wedding/event.
Susedna
Mid-Career Point Threadjack:
I finally got out of my introvert shell and attended a few (semi) local alumni events. The alumni group is thinking of adding some events to the 2H 2014 calendar. Having chatted with most of the regular attendees at this point, it does seem that all of us are in the mid-points of our careers. We’re not junior in our field; but we’re not very senior managers; we manage a few people or a small division, but we’re not CEO/CFO/COO, etc. And some of the folks I talked to want to switch careers.
So I’m toying with the idea of doing a “You’re at Mid-Career. So What’s Next?” type panel and hoping for some nuggets of wisdom from the Hive. I’d like to have no more than 5 panelists (or else, it gets too chaotic.) I’d like to have someone who’s a recruiter, someone who’s successfully career-switched at mid-career, and probably 3 people from different industries who can talk a bit about what they’ve seen/done to climb up (or lean back or whatever is working well for their lives right now.) Hoping they’ll all connect some dots for the audience. I am thinking of having someone be the moderator, with a set of canned questions, plus requesting questions from people who register from the event, so we can keep the discussion going. I’ll set aside a block of time for open Q&A, too.
I’m sure I’m missing something, or lots of things. What suggestions do you have to make this a more useful panel?
Or, what questions would you like answered if you were going to be in the audience of this event?
Anonymous
I think this is a great idea. So many panels just don’t mesh with my life. There are only so many CXO roles out there, and many of us need advice on what to do next in these middle stages.
Maybe someone to describe their experiences with less-than-full-time work? This is the point where your family needs start to converge on both sides – aging parents, kids.
NOLA
I’m in a totally different field obviously but I think I’d want to hear from people who continued to push to move up vs those who found a good place for themselves and don’t want to move up the ladder but also want to continue to be relevant and high functioning in the job they have. I know I fall in the latter category. After learning more about how different people have done the job above me, I’ve decided I’m not interested. I’ve been encouraged to apply at times, but it’s not the job I want. I like having the mix of administration and still being able to work directly with students, inside and outside of the classroom. I like the administrative work and the influence I have but it’s not what gets me out of bed in the morning!
Anita
Great idea! Maybe in addition to having panelists that switched mid-career, you could have one or two people that stayed where they were but found ways to break out of a rut.
AIMS
This sounds great! I would say that one thing I always appreciate is having people from different backgrounds/work environments. For instance, in the legal context (which is my frame of reference), it’s not very helpful if everyone is from, e.g., large or small firms exclusively so I’d say having a relative mix of different career paths taken might be helpful because that can color your options at the midpoint.
Middle Coast
I think a Life Coach, someone who helps people to discern a new path and then figure out how to get there, would be a good moderator. This person would have had experiences helping people who are to this point in the their life to decide what to do next and would probably have lots of anecdotes to share.
L
I think it would also be helpful to hear from someone who made a switch and wasn’t happy with it, so they could explain pitfalls, what to look for, etc. Often times, you hear “grass is greener” stories and some people leap without really exploring what it means for them. Not exactly the best motivational topic, but something I think would be helpful if framed appropriately.
Manageress
I love this idea and my comment got hijacked by the “posting too quickly” comment. Sigh.
Anyway, I am mid-career as well and was recently thinking about some of these questions – I got burned by someone who I thought was a mentor at work and it occurred to me that making the transition from mid-level to senior and “super senior” requires far more competencies than skills. Competencies that they underweight in business school (I’m in consulting and have an MBA).
So here are some questions that may appeal to your audience:
1) Do you have a mentor at work? How do you go about finding and nurturing mentors especially when you’re reaching a point in your career when more junior employees are reaching to you as mentees? (I encounter far more potential mentees than mentors, and am apparently too senior for the official mentoring program at work).
2) What advice do you have for navigating office politics and personalities, especially as they relate to impact on annual budgeting and planning processes, getting resources for key projects, getting “good” consultants to work on your projects, etc.?
3) What strategies do you have for effective time management? I often have meetings 9-5 most days of the week and don’t have a chance to start my work until after 5.
If any ‘ r e t t e s have thoughts on these questions, I’d love to discuss!
Thanks!
emeralds
Meetings from 9-5 most days of the week??? Am I an outlier in thinking that is insanity? I’m certainly not mid-career, and the closest I’ve gotten to consulting is having drinks with my friends in the Big 4, but my thought is: try to tackle your office’s meeting culture. There’s only so much time management strategies can help you when you’re sitting in a conference room eight hours a day.
FWIW, I’m junior enough that I don’t have what I would consider a ton of meetings, but even my bosses (and bosses’ bosses) don’t have meetings more than 1-2 hours a day (sometimes more, often less).
Platinomad
Unfortunately I think this is consulting.. I am onsite at the client side Monday afternoon through Thursday around lunch/late afternoon, and I regularly have client facing meetings for almost all of my onsite time. This is expected in a lot of ways and does not have to do with my company culture, it has to do with needing to pack in a lot of client facing work in a short period of time.
Although I’m all for getting rid of some of these meetings, most of the time its not really realistic.
Platinomad
I think your questions are awesome, and a lot of things I would like to know more about.
I do wonder about your mentor/mentee questions. I think I am a little farther back than you in my career, and I am very curious about how a mentor burned you. I have several folks that range from 1 to 3 levels above me that I would consider mentors, and some others a bit higher up that I see as advocates but not really mentors (Respect me and my work, help push through my promotions, help me get on high profile projects and roles that are good for my development but don’t really work with me directly to build my skills). It worries me to think that these people I respect, trust, and turn to for advice could be people I eventually feel betrayed by.
One thing I am learning about getting the best people resources as I start to move into a role where people would ask me to be their mentor is that mentoring is a great way to get better access to good resources. As I build these mentor/mentee relationships with those below me, they want to work on my projects and will actively seek out reporting to me. I think finding young superstars to mentor can be key in winning the staffing battle.
Manageress
Re: the 9-5 meetings – yes, unfortunately a lot of it has to do with client-facing meetings. But I operate in a culture of many team meetings and 1:1 meetings to go over key deliverables, discuss project updates, etc. I have proactively blocked off a day every week to work on my part of the deliverables (starting in May) so let’s see how that goes. I firmly believe you have to manage your projects around the time you have, not the tasks at hand (i.e., do a quick task in the 5 minutes between meetings, not try to start something big).
Re: being burned by a mentor. This particular senior leader has always been an advocate for my team and me; I have gone to her time and again for feedback on key projects and advice on decisions both personally and professionally. We have also constructively shared project resources where it makes sense; she is quite a bit senior to me in terms of both age and role, and I value(d?) her as a good mentor. (Even told her as much in my holiday card last year.)
Then for a recent project, she basically pulled rank on me and took two of my best players on her much bigger project. With my business hat on, it may have helped the business as a whole but my smaller team and project will suffer in the interim with the reduced resources. (Not to mention my time, as I now need to upskill two newer team members).
I did feel betrayed to be honest but as my (perhaps too cynical) DH constantly reminds me, it is tough to have friends at work and everyone is constantly looking out for their own interests. This was also a minor occurrence in the grand scheme of things but taught me to build a tougher skin. In the context of this question, I think it is genuinely hard to have friends and mentors as you progress up traditional organizational hierarchies like consulting (or law, banking, insert another field).
Platinomad
With my most recent promotion, I had a huge falling out with people that I had been close with at my old level. A variety of factors played into this (my need to move into a more leadership role and them not respecting that, jealously, strong difference in opinions on several major issues at work) and it was sort of emotionally devastating for me, as we had really bonded through a very challenging project. Ultimately I walked away feeling that is very challenging to have real friends in competitive, high stakes industries like consulting, which makes me sad but I think is just the way of it.
Senior Attorney
In addition to all the great suggestions above, how about trying to find somebody who went out on her own (sole practitioner, freelancer) mid-career? I know a few people who have done this and been very happy.
Susedna
All the comments and suggestions so far are great! Thank you. I’m feeling all fired up!
I’m going to collect these great replies, let them percolate for a few hours, and put together a proposal to get on the events calendar sometime in 2H 2014. If it’s accepted, I’ll report back to let you know how it goes (and to share the highlights.)
hoola hoopa
I love this idea!!! I would definitely attend this panel discussion and would love to hear highlights. Agree with ideas already out, particularly those from Nola, Anita, and L.
Another topic to consider is balancing career goals with spouses. Ie, one partner’s career takes lead (pros and cons of being lead and being secondary), alternating one partner’s setbacks for other partner’s gain, etc.
Silvercurls
I would encourage you to share the results beyond the immediate day-of-event, at-the-physical-location audience. Or at least _consider_ sharing either as an old-fashioned article in a professional journal or online as a PDF or webinar or some other other technologically current forms. The particulars of this may vary depending on your field and its culture, copyright considerations of the event and/or panelists, etc. Ditto re whether you make this available to all either free or for a small fee, or whether it’s only shared by subscribers (to the print journal) or members/participants (of the event, or the sponsoring organization).
Erin @ Girl Gone Veggie
Molly, my friend who introduced me to this site got married this past weekend!! She was the most beautiful bride. Just thought I should share. :D
Marilla
Congratulations, how lovely :)
Anon
Snark alert: it’s comments like these that everyone over the weekend thread was lamenting.
Wildkitten
The weekend thread lamented MANY types of comments. In fact I’m pretty sure it lamented every comment ever made or that ever will be made.
anon
Exactly. I don’t understand how this kind of comment brings any value to the site.
zora
Yes, “Everyone” obviously had exactly the same opinion about “Everything” on that thread. Good reading comprehension.
how pleasant
This was a positive sentiment and I actually smiled when I read it. You could simply ignore it; instead you care enough to comment. This speaks more to your overachieving ability to shat on things that are pleasant rather than any kind of need to moderate or change the type of comments on this site.
Portia
Weird question, but was it in Philadelphia?
Erin @ Girl Gone Veggie
Nope, Omaha. :)
Question on Farsightedness
So I have a quick question for the “ladies of a certain age.” If I have readers, do I only wear them when I am doing near work? It seems like if I wear my glasses all day at work, and then try to drive home, I can’t see well. But if I have them on, then I can’t see far very crisply either. If I haven’t been wearing my readers before, I can see faraway perfectly crisply.
Basically, I am just confused as to what I am supposed to do with readers…wear them all the time, wait for my eyes to adjust after I’ve been wearing them and am not going to do near work?
What do people do?
I’m such a noob.
tesyaa
I’m a newbie too, but I don’t think you’re supposed to wear reading glasses all the time. My ophthalmologist also cautioned against getting too strong of a prescription too fast. Apparently, the more you let the reading glasses do the “work” for you, the faster your near vision deteriorates.
But like I said, I’m hardly an expert here and I’m wearing the weakest prescription they make (1.00).
Male VPL
I’m 20/20, but have worn glasses for reading since college. I only wear them to read and actually leave them at work (I read at home, but for much shorter spurts), where they rarely leave my desk (so I usually don’t even wear them to walk down the hall since I lose things in my peripheral vision). I do not wear mine to drive and felt very uneasy the one time I did so. My understanding is that there’s a lot of fatigue and muscle strain from reading up close for very long periods and this isn’t a factor when driving, going to the store, etc.
Lily-Student
I wear reading glasses.
My optician told me to just wear them when doing close work. I also have an old prescription pair I sometimes wear to watch TV if I’m really tired.
KLG
Are you reading print or on a computer? I’ve worn glasses/contacts since I was 8 years old and for awhile I was really having trouble adjusting from reading/typing on a computer all day to having crisp vision while driving home. My eye doctor suggested a pair of glasses with lenses designed for computer work and that seems to have helped.
Question on Farsightedness
Mostly computer, some print.
Thanks for all the replies. I got my readers not from my normal eye doctor out of desperation, but I will try to go see my doctor and find this all out when I am next in my parents’ hood–I trust him more than my new eye professional. Thanks!
Killer Kitten Heels
I ended up with two prescriptions to solve this problem – basically, I have “lazy eye muscles” (I kid you not, that’s how my doc described it), and my eyes don’t like refocusing the way they’re supposed to/as quickly as they’re supposed to, so I have readers for close-up work, and a separate pair of driving glasses for distance.
Pep
I only wear the readers in front of the computer or when I’m actually reading a document. I use a 1.25 strength, which is fairly weak.
I need to have them with me all the time, which does cause problems since I won’t wear them on a chain around my neck and my clothes often don’t have appropriate pockets. So I end up wearing them perched on top of my head as a headband, which is not an optimal solution either.
Previous Optician
Some things:
1. Do you wear glasses normally and are now having trouble reading with that prescription? If yes, you may be more successful with bifocals. They come in lined and no-lines.
2. If you do not wear glasses normally and are having trouble with close up work. Go to the reading glass rack with something that you would normally need to read. Grab the lowest magnifying glasses you can find (+0.75). Find a place to sit comfortably, put the glasses on and try to read what your material. If you cannot read it, then try the next highest glasses (+1.00). You’re goal is to find the glasses with the lowest reading prescription, where you can still read. Over-correcting is bad.
3. ONLY wear your reading glasses for close up work. Take them off if you are at lunch or in a conference room, any time you are looking at something further than arm’s length away.
4. If you are also having trouble with computer work, you’re new reading glasses may help with that or you may need a separate set of glasses. You’ll need to repeat step 2, except at your computer.
I hope that helps! I was an optician while getting my graduate degree, it’s nice to be able to use the info occasionally.
PolyD
I am very nearsighted, so I wear contacts most of the time, and wear readers at work. I only wear them when sitting at my desk and, well, reading. If I try to see distance through them, it doesn’t work at all. I don’t find I have trouble adjusting, but then, I’ve dealt with not-awesome far visions for years, so maybe my expectations are lower.
I’ve been wearing +1.0 for probably 3 years now, so I’m not sure I buy the whole your-eyes-get-lazy theory. I really think there’s very little you can do to affect your vision one way or the other, although avoiding dirty makeup (infections) and UV light (cataracts) is good. I did have to do exercises for “lazy eye” when I was a kid, but this is an eyeball muscle issue, not really the eye itself.
I’ll also make a plug for progressive lens glasses. I love mine – it’s the closest I’ve ever come to having “natural” vision. I can see far away and I can see close up without adjusting or needing reading glasses. It’s quite miraculous.
NYNY
I have readers I keep at my desk for reading small-print documents, but when I’m reading on the computer, I just adjust the zoom.
hoola hoopa
I keep readers at work. They don’t leave my desk. So far, I haven’t needed them at home although that sadly says more about the amount of pleasure reading that happens these days than the state of my eyes. I use them primarily for computer work, but that’s because most of my work is on the computer.
If you feel like you need something for driving etc, I would re-consult with your optician. You may need two prescriptions. I actually wear one as contacts for general improvement and use my readers for close-up work.
Coach Laura
I get that problem if I do too much close-up work without a break. Try looking and focusing at something 20 feet away every 20-30 minutes without readers. My eye doc gave me that advice.
Meg Murry
My mother just got bifocal readers – they are clear (non-prescription) in the main part of the glass, and only readers in the lower part. I’ve borrowed them from her a few times when I was at her house and needed to read fine print – once you get used to looking through the lower part they actually work really well. I’m thinking of getting a pair myself. So maybe that’s an option for you – to go from full lens glasses to bottom only?
Toffee
Has anyone bought their own office chair? Or sits anyone have an awesome office chair they love? Which one? How tall are you? I’ve worked here about a month and am finding it difficult to walk at times I’m so sore. Facilities said I have two choices: this chair or another one that was even worse. I think part of my problem is that I’m 5’1 (which facilities scoffed at because she’s only one inch taller and sitting in my chair for 30 seconds was perfectly comfortable to her. Ugh.)
Erin @ Girl Gone Veggie
I sit on a exercise ball. Haha I love it.
Toffee
Don’t think I can manage that for my typical workday of 12 hours.
Erin @ Girl Gone Veggie
It takes a little bit to get used to but I sit on it for my nine hour days and now find it comfier than a chair.
zora
They also sell a ‘yoga ball chair’ that has a base with a low backrest for the ball to sit in. I had one in a former office and lurved it. Gave me the good posture of a yoga ball, but also gave me a little added stability and the convenience of wheels, etc.
http://www.gaiam.com/s/gaiam/balance-ball-chair/95-1004.html?code=PSFST100&extcmp=pla_froogle?device=c&network=g&matchtype=&creative=28114827069&adpos=1o1&gclid=CI-2wbDyg74CFYlafgods5MAfQ
DontBlameTheKids
I see a lot of people in other offices switch to this and it makes me curious. Have you noticed an increase at all in your core strength? Am I right in assuming that’s what this is for, or is there another benefit? TIA!
Anonymous
I find that I have less lower back pain when I spend part of my day on the exercise ball, probably because I can’t slouch like I do in my chair.
KLG
Yes, posture was always the main reason I had heard the exercise balls were good for office work.
Toffee
Sits should be does. And u just reported my own post. Ugh. A confirmation box on reporting would be nice.
Professor
Aeron. It comes in three sizes, and the smallest size is by far the best fitting chair I’ve ever had (I’m 5’3″). The best part is that the armrests adjust inward, not just up and down. Pricey, though.
Anonymous
“The Herman Miller Aeron chair. . . now available in True Black!”
The NPR ads are burned in my brain.
C
+1
Me too
+1
Anastasia
+1
haha
hoola hoopa
+1!
Seriously, though, good to know Professor. I’m 5’1″ and can never get a chair that fits.
Also in Academia
Sit for less is now sit for life!
lucy stone
We replaced all the chairs in our office with this one: http://www.amazon.com/Ignition-Series-Mid-Back-Adjustable-Computer/dp/B005I3HVXI/. It’s really comfortable and adjusts in pretty much any direction you would want. We range from 5’5″ to 5’9″ and all of us have found it comfortable.
CJ
I’m 5’0″ and bought myself an Aeron in the smallest size. It was a bit pricey, but its been with me at three firms now, and makes a long work day so much better.
Anonymous
I’m 5’1, and my office has two types of chairs- an Aeron, and another one that’s apparently better for back pain. I’ve tried both (my office is really big on ergonomics and I have chronic low back pain), and the Aeron is perfect- they give it to me in the small size, and while I feel a bit like Baby Bear with my little chair compared to all the taller men I work with, it does fit me just right. They also gave me a standing desk so I can switch between sitting and standing. It’s so great, I think I’d invest in both if I moved to a company that didn’t offer the ergo options.
Toffee
Thanks, everyone! I’m so uncomfortable that I’m more than willing to shell out the money for a better chair.
Orangerie
Ok, ignore the dated-looking website, but this is the best chair I’ve ever sat in. I have mild scoliosis that makes sitting in traditional office chairs (with a flat seat) really painful after an extended period of time. My orthopedic doctor recommended this chair and it’s made a world of difference; I actually started having pain again when I switched companies and had to use their standard office chairs for a while before they ordered one per my request.
http://swingseat.com/
workingmomz
I have one of those too! It truly is great.
Anon
This is besides the point, but have you tried a stool/footrest to set your feet on while you sit in your current chair?
Toffee
I’ve used one in the past, bit my back still hurts where the lumbar support hits too high on my back. The foot rest helped a little in terms of preventing the circulation issues in my legs, but I really need arm rests and lumbar support to adjust.
Bonnie
I had this problem too and solved it by getting a foot rest like this: http://www.amazon.com/Cushion-Half-Cylinder-Design-Black-92311/dp/B001MS6XW8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1398700962&sr=8-2&keywords=foot+rest
Now my chair is high enough to type comfortably but my feet are no longer hanging.
Anyone else surprised that Kat didn’t chime in on this weekend’s discussion?
new york associate
Yup.
"Casual" Dress
Hi all,
I am headed to a young lawyer retreat this weekend with about 100 other attendees. The dress code says “casual”… it worries me. Does that mean like, business casual? Or casual casual? It’s at a hotel. Any outfit suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Wildkitten
I’d dress “smart casual” – so jeans but no holes, nice tops, and bring a blazer but you can choose to not wear it.
DontBlameTheKids
Agree with this. Maybe also add a pair of black pants and a sheath dress, just in case anything unexpected comes up.
ANP
First thing I’d ask is: do you know anyone else who’s going or who’s gone before? Or is there contact info for the conference organizer? I’d try those routes first, to ask.
If that fails, or if you don’t want to ask other people for some reason, I would try for versatile outfits that could be dressed up or down. To me, “casual” means “casual” — not business, but you’re still at a work event. So depending on where you are and what the weather’s like, I’d go for a skinny pant and print top where you can wear flats (casual) or heels (dressy). This is also the kind of situation where I often break out my (tailored/structured) ponte pieces — sheath dress and flats or sandals, ponte blazer, etc.
"Casual" Dress
Thanks, ANP. Some of my colleagues are going with me (and are equally stumped) but none of them have attended before. No contact info for the conference organizer. I think I’ll go skinny pants and a printed top like you have suggested.
Senior Attorney
Is there a web site with pictures of previous events? I always like to look at the photos to see what people have worn in the past.
Ashley
This. And when in doubt, think about the impression you want to leave. In other words, it is better to err on the side of a little to dressed up than too dressed down.
Medic Maggie
Good morning ladies. I am a long time lurker coming out of lurkdom for the first time today.
Since we’re talking about dresses, can I just say that I want ALL THE THINGS in the new Land’s End catalog? How did they get into my brain and put it all on glossy pages? The dresses are gorgeous and I want them all. Don’t get me started on their cardigans either. Sigh. Nothing a few thousand dollars wouldn’t fix, but that’s not in the budget.
So, hello!
Wildkitten
Wait for everything to go on sale, and then buy the things you want that are still in stock!
ANP
+1. I got The Dress a couple of weeks ago in a brown dot pattern for $20. Definitely wait for the sales!
Wildkitten
I got it in herringbone for $25 and I loooove it. When it goes on sale again I am going to buy all of them.
DontBlameTheKids
I have to check this out now! Usually I think of Land’s End as kinda old ladyish, but I hear they are going in a new direction.
Brit
I agree that they’re moving in a different direction. I remember my mom purchasing from them when I was younger and seeing some of the pictures from then and just thinking “Oh gawd, the mom jeans (and mom jean shorts!)”
Meg Murry
Oh, they definitely still have some mom jeans – but most of their stuff is much better. Or I’m just getting old and frumpy myself and am in denial …
But yes, I have a bit of a Lands End dress problem, especially since I don’t even wear dresses that often. I have to restrain myself until for the next fall colors, as I can’t buy any more eggplant, cobalt or black dresses without becoming “that purple dress lady”.
Toffee
30% off with code best and pin 52721456.
Medic Maggie
Thanks for the discount code!
I used to think they were pretty matronly myself, but the last year or so has seen a lot more refinement in their offerings, as well as updated colors & styles. I’m smitten, and it is looks like that (the dresses!) that make me want to wear dresses every day in the summer. I’m not a dress person. I can’t remember the last time I wore a dress to work, in fact.
zora
I just ordered two of their dresses that are on sale this weekend!! Such a great deal! And I got the 30% off on top of it. Definitely right now is the time to try a couple out!
Try different sizes, though, weirdly I’ve found their sizing to be different with different dress styles.
snoring
Yes, snoring. Not my spouse’s, but mine. I have been so embarrassed by it my whole life. Has anyone tried any remedies successfully? I would rather have surgery than a machine, but I hear the machine is great. That just seems terrible. And how bad is the surgery? I have heard it is just a snip snip kind of thing. Any thoughts would be most appreciated!
AIMS
My friend’s husband had the surgery. It seems to have been a simple procedure. I think he had to go in for a sleep study first. I’d say that’s probably your first step.
lucy stone
Do you have sleep apnea? My spouse does and the machine has changed his life (when he wears it!). He never dreamed until he got the CPAP. His sleep doctor said the surgery would not be effective. I’d say he’s about 75% compliant with it. The noise is so minimal that I’d choose it over the snoring any day. When my husband got his, he lost about 20 pounds in a few months and got color back in his face. His mood also improved tremendously.
Woods-comma-Elle
My dad has the machine and he loves it. It’s very quiet and he has had such better sleep since he got it! The problem now is he has stopped snoring but my mum has started!
EC MD
So I would recommend a visit to a sleep specialist — someone board certified in sleep medicine. They can do the proper evaluation and help you decide on your options.
The surgery may or may not be helpful to you. If it’s just the uvula which is causing your snoring (which is rare) then removing it may help. If you snore because all of your soft tissue in your palate and upper airway are partially collapsing as you sleep (which is the more common scenario) then the operation won’t work. The operation is somewhat controversial — the ENTs who do the operation cite much better outcomes than those who don’t do it. The CPAP machine is pretty clearly effective.
I also think you may be confusing sleep apnea and snoring. Sleep apnea is a precise diagnosis that is determined with a sleep study — either at home or in a lab. Snoring is, well, snoring. Do you only snore in certain positions? Do you have sinus issues that are worsening your symptoms? All of these factors may improve snoring without a big intervention. The operation, if done right, is not “snip snip” and if only “snip snip” is done, it may not do a whole lot for you, and may put you at some risk for uncertain benefit.
TL:DR; find a board certified sleep medicine doctor. Get evaluated. They’ll help you sort through your options.
Anon light sleeper
Related to this — how do ladies handle the snoring of a new bed mate? I am the lightest sleeper ever, and already use earplugs and my bf snores like crazy, but gets really offended when I sneak off to sleep elsewhere. Any tips?
Anonymous
He doesn’t get to be offended.
JJ
Would he be more offended if you told him that he has to sleep elsewhere? Because those are the two options if earplugs aren’t cutting it…
In a worst case scenario, I find that having some white noise can help drown out snoring, as well.
KLG
Sounds like he would take offense to this too, but I sometimes wear breathe right strips to bed to lessen the snoring my husband has to listen to.
Susedna
I think he’s being selfish. First, he prevents you from getting proper sleep because of his snoring AND he wants you to keep on suffering so his ego isn’t hurt? YUCK.
Frankly, I can’t imagine not reacting badly to someone with this little standing (new bedmate, not a long-time live-in SO, or spouse) being this entitled.
Anon
Talk to your doctor and get a sleep study done to see what they recommend. My brother had surgery for snoring (uvula, deviated septum, and tonsils). He is the world’s biggest baby and made it through just fine. It is still surgery, though.
I can finally sleep
My husband has tried a bunch of things so that I can sleep through the night. The silent snooz plastic clip works well. Sometimes I also have to ask him to turn onto his side.
http://sporkliving.com/2009/06/silent-snooz/
lucy stone
I started a FitBit group for fans of this site. If you’d like to join, email me at fivetomatoes@gmail.com and I’ll send you an invite.
Theory question
Has anyone bought Theory lately? Theory has been my go-to brand for suits and pants and I see that they’ve added a much higher percentage of poly and rayon to their blends. Just wondering if they fit as well. The reviews on Nordstrom’s website are not promising.
roses
I bought a lovely blazer at the outlet last weekend that fit perfectly and had a high-quality lining. However, the matching skirt and pants were all kinds of ill-fitting. I am positive I had the right size – both fit at my waist just fine and didn’t feel tight – yet they were unbearably clingly. As in, I don’t think any pair of underwear exists that wouldn’t have shown lines. I didn’t check the fabric content, but I could definitely see how adding more poly/rayon would have this effect, particularly since Theory has never lined their skirts or pants.
WIL
This happened to me as well, with their 2014 line! I even ordered two different sizes to see if it was a sizing thing and it was not. The jackets and blazers I have purchased this year have been great though.
Diana Barry
I just bought a suit and top at the outlet that were both great. My trouble is that I can’t wear ANY of their dresses – they are all too short. I have one that I wear for dinners out but really wish they would make longer ones for the suiting fabrics.
I am not particularly fussy about fabric content, but we’ll see how these new suits wear compared to the old ones.
Aggie
I have bought a dress and a pair of pants and returned both. They fit nearly the same, but the materials just felt “off.” I have to buy a size up and have everything tailored from Theory and just could not justify a tailor’s charge on top of the price for items that were not even 50% wool.
Theory question
This is exactly my issue. I’m petite and curvy so alterations with most lines are a must–particularly theory. *Sigh*
Bonnie
Just returned a dress that really was not worth it. The original price was over $300 for an unlined dress that was several inches too short for work.
locomotive
I have an older black Theory suit (~2007) which is still holding up beautifully. That being said, it’s fully lined and I hate wearing suits that are unlined (event pants… it took me awhile to get used to that being fairly standard these days. Much of the new Theory suiting that I’ve seen is unlined and thus is a dealbreaker for me.
AIMS
Okay, I am actually going to be on topic for a change. This dress is making me dizzy. I think with a black blazer it would probably be toned down, but as I see it on the screen it just looks like a QR code.
ANP
Oooh, now I can’t unsee the QR code.
It feels a little short for the office — maybe the model is tall? Perhaps it’s the length + flare shape that’s throwing me off.
Reix
Totally honest & serious question: Isn’t this dress (and many, many of the dresses featured here) kind of short for office wear?
Or is it just that the models are tall and all dresses look short on them?
roses
The latter, I think. This dress is 36 in. – on 5’3 me, it would be solidly knee-length.
Anon
I just wish more designers would err on the side of longer lengths. You can hem a 40 inch dress – there’s nothing I can do about a 36 inch dress except not buy it because it’d be 5 inches above my knee.
Lily-Student
+1. Friends on the shorter side complaining about dresses being too long irks me a lot, especially if it’s just a simple hem that they could take up.
a passion for fashion
but you can’t just hem it — it changes the whole shape of the dress/slacks. so while i get that you cant add on, the only thing i could do with a 40in dress is not buy it, because taking 5 or more inches off the hem isnt just a “simple” hem
Lily-Student
I get that, but you could go to one of the million other shops that doesn’t cater for tall women.
roses
Really what we need are more lines that do petite and tall lengths. Hemming is fine sometimes, but other times if a dress is designed for someone who is 5’9, the waist will end up in the completely wrong place for me and not fit.
MJ
Yes…Kat is petite, and so many of her picks trend toward dresses that would work on petites but would look like skating dresses on me (I am 5’11” and all legs, short waisted). So…I just look at the recent dress picks and think, “Not for me, would be cute on someone quite a bit shorter.”
That said, I think hemlines are just up this season. If you go over to any number of retailers’ websites, the dresses are just short this year, period. I don’t always need Talls, but I know that if anything is less than 42″, it sort of looks like I am wearing my little sister’s clothes. And I don’t have a little sister!
Bonnie
I agree. 36″ hits me right at the knee but many dresses seem to be much shorter than that recently.
Anon
Opinions will vary, but IMO, yes – this dress is too short for work.
Diana Barry
Yes and yes. I wish all sites would give length measurements – I need a 38″ or 39″ length in order for it to be long enough for work. The models tend to be 5’9″ or 5’10” and also wearing a small size (which often means they are a smidge shorter) so the dresses are too short for work on them.
HSAL
Yes, length would be so helpful. Telling me a dress “hits just above the knees” is in no way useful.
Hildegarde
The dress doesn’t make me dizzy, but it doesn’t look like workwear to me. I think trying to make this work for a business casual (or anything more formal) by adding a blazer would just look like you were trying to dress up a non-work dress by adding a blazer. But I wouldn’t wear this outside of work, either, since it looks a bit too work-like for fun clothes, at least for me. It seems to hit a sweet spot in which it wouldn’t really work anywhere. Maybe an office that was even more casual than business casual, so you didn’t really have to worry about looking like you were wearing work clothes, but you still wanted to be reasonably covered?
Also, “pop of color” shoes seem too obvious here, but black might be too boring, so I’m not sure what I would do. Maybe this dress is too far outside my wheelhouse for me to figure out an outfit around it, but I agree it’s not what I would choose.
Lyssa
I think that nude for you shoes would probably be best (or black with black tights for winter). The dress pops enough on its own!
Hildegarde
Nude-for-you, of course! I can’t believe that didn’t occur to me.
Anon
I think it looks dizzy because it’s a photo that has been shrunken down, so maybe in person it wouldn’t have that effect. The print doesn’t read as particularly professional to me, but that probably depends on where you work.
hellskitchen
That was my first thought too. For that price, I’d want something timeless and this dress just doesn’t come across as that.
In iT
LOL I am going to buy this and tell everyone at work that it’s a QR code.
Lyssa
You should wear it on Halloween and claim it’s your costume. :)
tesyaa
That would be a great idea if it were $11.00 instead of $1100!
new york associate
I really like graphic black and white dresses and wear them a lot with blazers, but I agree that this one isn’t quite working for me. The high neckline would also be a problem, but that’s just me – as a short-necked lady, high necklines are my Sworn Enemy. (V-neck or scoop neck all the way!)
ANP
What are you all getting your mothers and mothers in law for Mother’s Day, if anything? My MIL is an amazing, kind, totally selfless woman whom I adore (no comment on my relationship with my own mom). My in laws have recently done a ton of stuff to help me and DH (and our kids) out, so I feel like I want to be extra thoughtful this year — realizing that this is somewhat of a Hallmark holiday and we don’t typically do really over-the-top stuff for her for this occasion. The problem is that she has everything she could ever want, loves to shop, and is just generally hard to buy for — oh, and her birthday is a few weeks away, too, so it’s a double whammy. Not a ton of hobbies but she loves to garden. I’m hoping that hearing your M-Day plans will spark some ideas for me!
Katie
How about “experience” gift cards for a spa, restaurant, etc? My mom has always wanted a certain car, and one year we rented it for her for the weekend.
Erin @ Girl Gone Veggie
I’m doing a spa gift card for my MIL this year.
Clementine
Arrange for a portrait session for your IL’s and their grandkids?? Ideally, all their grandkids if possible- even if this means scheduling it for a few months out. This can be a group gift or an individual one. You could check out groupons or even some place like JC Penney and see what there is out there.
Take her out and treat her to a pedicure but go with her and spend some quality time.
JJ
I just ordered the Mother’s Day boxes on Pinhole Press for my MIL. Same thing as you – she’s amazingly thoughtful and has everything that she wants. I figured you can’t go wrong with pictures of the grandkids.
If you’re local to them: we also have started a tradition of taking our parents out to dinner for gifts (and a babysitter for the kids). They seem to love the quality time with us.
Edna
If she loves to garden, why not buy her a gift certificate to a local nursery so she can pick out plants or other items? Or, if you are in the same location that she is then you could go and actually pick out a pot and flowers or a hanging basket. I’m actually buying my mom a hanging basket for Mother’s Day because she loves putting them outside on the porch and it lasts longer than a bouquet of flowers.
AttiredAttorney
My mom LOVES chocolate chip cookies, so I’m having a bakery deliver a big tin of really good, fresh cookies to her office the Thursday before the holiday to share with her coworkers. I usually do the typical mother’s day flowers, but felt like mixing it up.
Lily-Student
This is a genius idea, and one I may have to steal for the future!
Susedna
My mom has emphatically said: no more stuff! She’s trying to clear out stuff, and really does not need more clutter in the house at this point.
So she and my dad are coming over to our place, and the DH and I are cooking them lunch. Since it’s at our place, we can just linger and chitchat over tea and dessert afterwards.
snowy
I always send flowers to my mom and my MIL (and a card). Yes, it’s boring and traditional but both of them always seem so excited for the flowers, sending me pictures and updates about them (lol – “the lilies have really opened up now!”). And certainly neither needs more stuff.
Senior Attorney
Do you live close enough to take her lunch or have her over for dinner? I’m probably about her age and that’s the kind of thing I would much prefer to more stuff.
Philanthropy Girl
+1 – My mom greatly prefers an opportunity to be with her kids over any thing I could send her. A meal out, a class together, going to a concert – any of these are always really popular with my mom.
BMBG
Roku Stick and Netflix (split with another sibling), because she always complains that there’s nothing on TV.
Bonnie
My MIL’s birthday is right around Mother’s Day too. We are just getting cards and flowers for Mother’s Day and then having everyone over for a meal that she would enjoy.
hoola hoopa
My husband handles his mother. Firm rule, although I’ll remind him increasingly as the date approaches. He sends her flowers. I facilitate gifts from our kids, though. I make sure they make cards or pictures and send them out to her with recent photos.
If your MIL loves to garden, maybe you could give her a potted plant?
I give my mom a card with written message from me and the things from the kids. Sometimes I see something small that she’d like, but it’s not a gift-giving occasion in general. It’s all about sentiment for us. My SIL recently gave her a groupon experience gift that they shared together, which my mom adored. She enjoyed the activity and the fact that her DIL wanted to spend the afternoon with her.
Lily-Student
Mother’s Day was in March here. My mum really enjoys reading fluffy, chick-lit-y books, but can’t justify spending the money on herself, so I took her to a big bookshop and told her to choose whatever she wanted.
Thistle
Mothers dayis already past here, but I bought a weekend hotel voucher for the pair of us – we went away over Easter weekend. Even better we got a really great weekend and were able to wander around in summer tops! There is nothing better than the first really sunny weekend of the year…
transitioning offices - casual to "formal"
TJ. I’m looking for advice on how to transition from a casual workplace (wardrobe and ettiquite ) to a more traditional formal office setting. Wardrobe wise it’s a nice business casual (not formal suites all the time. Separates would be okay) but culture wise I’d need to step up my game. Working in a casual office I’ve noticed my professionalism has taken a hit (if you’re too business you’re not “nice). New place would be a step up and would be interacting with higher level staff daily. Any and all tips welcome! Thanks.
Killer Kitten Heels
A couple of things:
1. Pay attention to your tone/etiquette in emails. Use complete sentences, proper punctuation, no emoticons, etc. (I can’t believe I even have to say that, but based on the emails I receive daily, even from smart folks in great, high-ranking positions, I feel like I do.)
2. Read a book like “Lean In” or something similar before starting, to help your brain get back into “business mode.”
3. When you first start, pay really, really close attention to the folks around you, and do your best to match their tone/language/behavior/etc. If there’s someone who seems to do particularly well within the organization, give some thought to what makes them successful, and try to incorporate those behaviors into your own office etiquette. (Obviously don’t go all Single White Female on anyone, but it can be helpful to have a sort of “What would X person do?” in mind when you’re trying to figure out how to handle a situation and aren’t yet fully habituated to the new office culture.)
Ashley
Can you explain the “Single White Female” reference please? I am not clear on how it relates to a work place problem, nor have I seen the movie.
Killer Kitten Heels
I basically just meant “don’t mimic someone else’s behavior so precisely/extensively that you become creepy.”
Hildegarde
One of the biggest differences I notice between workplaces of varying formality is the jokes. It sounds kind of petty, but before you tell any jokes pay attention to who jokes with whom, what kind of jokes they tell, and the context in which they tell them. It’s bad to err on either side: too familiar or too stiff.
If you’re prone to use exclamation points in e-mails, I would cut down on that.
Meg Murry
This might be a good time to read (or re-read) Nice Girls Don’t Get the Corner Office, especially the parts about being “too nice”. I agree with the above comments on email tone of voice also.
Diana Barry
ladies – I have a wardrobe question. I have a green/ivory herringbone tweed skirt from J. Crew. I bought it last year in the spring so it is supposed to be a spring fabric, but I can’t ever seem to wear it. It would look weird with tights but it is still too cold for bare legs, but then by the time it is bare-legs weather it feels too warm to wear it. Is this a case when I should just suck it up and wear hose? And what would you pair with a skirt like that?
It is this skirt (second picture down)
http://colorfulcorporate.blogspot.com/2013/02/jcrew-early-spring-fitting-room-reviews.html
L
That is adorable. I’d probably suck it up and wear it now with bare legs (crisp in the mornings, warm mid-day) since I’m not outside a ton. If you wore that in the office, I wouldn’t think you looked inappropriate.
Maybe you could also wear it on some of the warmer fall days (early/mid Sept.) Maybe a dark green blouse to make it feel more fall, but play into the color scheme?
MJ
I have a skirt like this from JCrew too from last season, and I can’t ever figure out how to wear it either…cream tights are weird, nylons are weird…hard to style. I’m no help here.
Marilla
I have the pink one of that and think it’s so pretty – although I passed it on to my sister since it really is too small for me. Same as L, I would wear it now through May with bare legs, and again in September/early October. It’s still a bit too cold right now but I can’t handle tights anymore, so that’s what I’m doing now. I don’t typically wear hose to work but would wear them with this skirt to something else (synagogue/church, a family brunch/lunch..). I agree the weight of the skirt is a bit tricky.
I would wear it with white and a dangly gold necklace, or try out a navy top if it wouldn’t be too severe next to the springy green.
Diana Barry
Thanks, ladies. I will bare-leg it (although not tomorrow with a high of 48!) for now. :)
Ebro fin
I’d wear it with off white hose. You need to pick it carefully, the hose should be sheer, off white–Hanes Silk Reflection has one. On your legs, the hose doesn’t look white but like a very light shading. I like the way this looks better than “natural” hose, and it’s summery.
Lyssa
I think that it might (might!) work with brown hose and matching brown shoes, if you can find them.
abogada
I’d wear this skirt with white tights or hose or bare legs, depending on the temperature.
First Year Anon
Grey hose?
Bonnie
I think you can wear this skirt even when it gets warmer because the colors read spring. If it’s too cold for bare legs, I’d go with gray or brown tights matched to shoes. IMO, sheer hose don’t add warmth and white tights are best reserved for little girls.
anon
Do you ladies remove your arm hair? It is that time of year when I start wearing short sleeves and getting really self conscious about my arms. I am pale skinned with relatively fine but dark arm hair. For a number of years I either epilated or shaved it but stopped because I was worried that was weird and the upkeep was a pain, but now I feel weird about having it. I can’t win!
Chewbacca
I was furry even as a child. I grew up with enough people who were either furry or brunette that I didn’t feel funny (plus, no one worse sunscreen then, so by July, everyone’s arms were brown). Then, I moved to a part of the country where many people are much fairer than me (and I became the great sunscreen believer), so I just stood out as being SO FURRY with very pale skin. I did a few rounds of laser about 10 years ago. It didn’t get rid of everything, but it made it so much less noticeable that I an content with the wispies that are left.
I have a daughter who will probably be furry (and a blonde one who probably won’t be affected) and I think it’s something I’d mention in case she is ever really really bothered by it (was not such a big deal for me, but I didn’t stick out as much).
Orangerie
Yes. I’ve waxed my lower & upper arms since I was like 16.
Anonymous
I shave it every day. It adds about 10 seconds to my shower. I’ve love to laser it and not have to pack a razor on short trips where I could go without on my legs, but I cannot imagine letting it grow long enough to laser. I wear tanks several times a week year round to the gym, and also have sweat/odor issues that would be much worse if hair was there trapping the bacteria.
Anonymous
Oh man, I totally misread and thought you meant underarm hair. I have never done anything about my forearm hair (it’s blonde FWIW).
Orangerie
FYI, I lasered my underarms and you actually aren’t supposed to let it grow long. Depending on the type of laser, they usually request you shave the day of or night before.
http://beauty.about.com/od/laserhairremoval/a/laserfacts.htm
Anonymous
Orangerie is right. It’s electrolysis that requires you to grow your hair out before treatments.
Anonymous
Oh interesting! That’s good to know. Now I just need to save up for the sessions–a quick search says underarms would be about $150-$250 per session?
Orangerie
Yeah, that sounds about right. I’d recommend doing some Yelp research to find a couple highly rated clinics in your area and then get on their email lists. I often see promotions for 40% off packages which makes the process much more affordable. Groupon/LivingSocial is another option.
Poppy
I have a friend who bleached her arm hair with facial hair bleach.
Chewbacca
I tried that once. Same fur, different color. And then it had roots. Did not like.
emeralds
One of my roommates in college switched from shaving to bleaching while we were living together. I thought the bleaching looked wayyyy more natural, FWIW, and she said it was less upkeep.
Sacha
I bleach. I have relatively fine, mid-shade hair, and I find bleaching looks very natural, makes the hair pretty much disappear unless you are looking for it, and requires very little upkeep. I prefer it to shaving because this way the hairs always lie flat.
Marilla
I have similar hair and don’t bother. It bothered me when I was in high school, and occasionally now sometimes in the summer, but in general it doesn’t bother me nearly enough to waste time and money removing it. I also think complete hairlessness on myself would creep me out. (I do shave my legs and armpits, tweeze eyebrows etc…but my stomach and arms can carry on as they are until I become a movie star who is contractually required to wax everything all the time.)
Alice
Same here. I have pale skin and relatively dark, long armhair, but it doesn’t bother me the way it used to. I have dark hair, dark eyebrows….I feel absolutely OK with my arm hair.
And I’m really afraid of arm stubble.
Susedna
When I was in high school, there was definitely the pressure to conform and sadly, the social power of loud-mouthed high school boys with their ignorant, pre-digested-by-popular-media ideas about female beauty were completely dominant.
They would loudly make fun of girls who did not conform, and sadly, the girls who did, probably secretly thanked some deity that they *did conform* and thereby escaped being targeted, and stood around letting the boys mock the girls who didn’t.
I recall these boys loudly taunting girls who had more hair on their arms and legs than was acceptable to these jerks. Really appalling until I learned to yell back some really, really hard words. I’m not surprised if many of these boys grew up to the jerks who fat-shame, sl*t-shame, and otherwise demand/enforce a set of uniform, unforgiving standards on women.
I think to this day, I think the standard that all women are supposed to be “mostly” hairless, is yet another one of those aspects of societal oppression. If the old myths and legends about hair and strength (think: Samson) have meaning, then it’s bad– women are expected to be hairless (weak, soft, delicate) creatures that are primarily meant to be pleasing to a certain laddish male eye. No thank you.
Marilla
I would like to thoroughly second your final paragraph :)
Carrie
+1
It actually upsets…. And disgusts me that sometime between my ages of 20 and 30 society has flipped towards wanting women to look like porn stars.
I hate that this thread makes me feel even more self conscious about myself . Arm hair…. Are we kidding here?
First plucking my eye brows, then tearing out or bleaching all hair on my face, then shaving my legs up to my privates, then tear everything off … And heaven forbid if we have a stray hair and of the other places that many of us dark haired beauties are cursed.
I HATE this…
Ok. Good vent. Thanks.
CKB
This is me too. I have fair skin, mid brown arm hair, and lots of it (and some are pretty long). I can’t be bothered to remove it at all. I feel like it’s hair that’s supposed to be there. Of course, I’m also in my late 30’s, so not really of the hairless generation (which seems to me to be people currently in their 20’s and early 30’s) In fact, I just had my first biniki wax about a month ago, though I plan keep that up. But it wasn’t a brazilian!
I’m a hairy person. I just am. Much hairier than some, not as hairy as others. And I’m OK with it. I’m far hairier than hubby (except for traditional male/female differences) and he doesn’t care. And if anyone else ever commented in a negative way I’d shoot them a look and a ‘are you seriously commenting on my arm hair?’.
Lily-Student
I’m 20, so in the hairless generation, and I also don’t bother to remove it. I have similar colouring to you.
Although, if I wore lots of sleeveless things I might. The weather in the UK means I don’t, plus the actual skin on my arms isn’t great (I have that permanent goosebumps type think) so I almost always have a thin cardigan or something on!
Diana Barry
No; however, I have olive-undertone (although pale) skin and my arm hair is slightly lighter than my (brown) hair on head. I have a relative who has v dark hair and v pale skin and she does remove because it is so much more noticeable.
hellskitchen
Yep, I shave it every 4-5 days. I don’t have a lot of hair but it’s dark so it stands out. Used to wax it but it got very expensive. Unlike my legs, shaving my arms has not resulted in any in-growns or other issues.
wintergreen126
I have arm hair that’s noticeable (tan skin, black hair), but it’s nowhere near, I don’t know, say Robin Williams level of distracting. It’s not enough to garner any comment, so I just go with it.
Only once did I have my arms waxed (it was back during my dancing days so heavy stage makeup went pretty much everywhere to make things look even), and while nice, I wasn’t interested in the upkeep. Legs, underarms, eyebrows, etc. is enough. No need to add anything else.
Hey, hey!
No, and it has never even occurred to me that this is something that occurs frequently. I guess it may be because my arm hair is pretty much only visible if you get really close to it and look (funny image), but, then again, I also shave my legs all willy-nilly, as I decide i will. Yes, this includes many, many times in short running shorts and visible – albeit blonde – leg hair and I couldn’t care less. I’ll do it when I get to it, okay?!
Lily-Student
This is my strategy – although sometimes I leave it too long and run and can feel the wind in the hair and it’s very odd!
Ebro fin
I do, and it used to bother me, but it doesn’t really any more. In the summer time, I use my hands to gently brush it in the opposite direction of the way it grows, and I very carefully trim some of it. I don’t try to get it even or trim it all, just to cut it back a little and it works for me.
When I was young, my aunt had a gas stove, and would turn on the burner on low, and burn the hair off. It was quite effective, but not recommended!
Zwitterion
I pulled a muscle in my neck while studying last night and it really hurts :(. What can I do to relieve the pain? In class now but can stop by a Target later to pick up any miracle cures.
Anon
Take Advil. Use one of those stick on hot patches.
Zwitterion
Oh my goodness. I don’t know why I didn’t think of it, but I always have te hand warmer packets in my bag. I just opened one up and it’s heaven. Thank you, because I wouldn’t have thought of it otherwise!
snowy
If it’s so bad you can’t move your neck, a trip to the urgent care might help. They can prescribe a muscle relaxant. I’ve done this a couple times when it was so painful I couldn’t turn my head at all.
Zwitterion
Luckily it’s not that bad. And the heat (see above) really seems to be helping. But good to know anyways for the future. Thanks!
Pink
combine with icy hot!
Anon in NYC
Mad Men wardrobe question: I’m going to a Mad Men themed party this upcoming weekend. I have never watched the show and don’t have a ton of time to buy something, but I’d appreciate any tips on what to wear and hopefully I can shop my closet. Thanks!
Nellie
Surprised to hear that the Mad Men theme party is still a thing, but: I’d do a Google image search to get some ideas, and also, I love the Tom & Lorenzo blog’s “Mad Style” series, where they deconstruct the fashion of Mad Men. There’s lots of photos and it should be an inspiration:
http://tomandlorenzo.com/tag/mad-style/
Killer Kitten Heels
Sheath dress (ideally in a jewel tone) + matching pumps or boots and an updo, and you’re basically Joan-ified. Yellow gold rather than silver accessories will help too.
Baconpancakes
If you do decide to buy something, Shabby Apple and Modcloth have both Betty and Joan silhouettes. The Stay-for-Evergreen dress at Modcloth is what I wore for my team’s Mad Men Halloween costume. Otherwise, wear a very tightly cinched, high-waisted pencil skirt or dress with a fitted top in darker, saturated colors for a corporate look, and a tightly cinched, high-waisted full skirt or dress with a fitted top in a bright print for a homemaker look. The thing that will honestly make an outfit look more authentic is the proper underwear – the tighter and smaller you can get your waist, the better.
For the hair, plan at least an hour, if not two to dry, curl, and set your hair, no matter what you do with it. Go with curlers, not a curling iron, for Betty’s hair. For Joan’s, I’d really recommend a hair rat (I made mine out of a pair of clean nude-for-me nylons with runs in them). You can do it without one, but it’s much harder, and all the teasing and hairspray in the world isn’t going to stay up as long as a rat. There’s tons of bouffant tutorials – having bangs helps a lot for her look.
And of course, carry a pack of cigarettes.
Sasha
Does anyone have any good resources they can point me to for giving work presentations/leading projects? I’m in charge of a very technical project at work that involves doing a executive briefings to a customer. I’ve worked on these kinds of projects in the past but I’ve never been in charge of them, so I’m kind of doing things on the fly. I think things are going fine so far, but I have very little oversight and I thought it might be nice to see if you all had anything to recommend. I’ve been given books before, but they were tended to have mostly inspirational rah-rah how to be a rainmaker-type advice rather than more practical tips.
Ashley
Project Management Institute.
Check their website, there may be something helpful.
sneakers
How long do your sneakers usually last? I only run inside, on a treadmill or elliptical 3x a week, but after about 9 months I feel like my sneakers are stretching out in spots that I can’t tighten with the laces. I’m having a hard time buying new ones mostly because they still LOOK brand new since they rarely go outside. I’ve only been working out regularly for about a year, is this just the normal lifespan of sneakers?
Anon
Yeah that’s normal. If you’re using them regularly they’ll start wearing out after 6 months outside, but longer inside.
Diana Barry
Totally normal. Depending on the shoe, I wear for about 6-8 months or 300-500 miles, whichever comes first.
emeralds
+1.
Wildkitten
+1
anon
I work out 6 times a week, almost entirely indoors and I definitely get atleast 9 months out of my shoes.
NOLA
I keep a pair of shoes just for the treadmill because I was told my treadmill would last longer if I never wore those shoes outside (little pebbles, dirt, etc.). But yet, my treadmill shoes look pristine but they do get worn out.
CKB
I replace my shoes about every 6 months. I know it’s time when I start feeling twinges in my knees. I mostly run outside.
Ashley
One book I have says change your shoes every six months, so you are doing good.
Philanthropy Girl
Some of it will depend on your feet, too. My non-workout sneakers generally only last a year. When I’m really serious about my workouts, my sneakers will be lucky to make it 6 months. When I’m less serious, or sticking more to yoga/strength training, I can stretch them a year. I’ve always been hard on my shoes due to overly flexible arches.
Angela
The running club I used to belong to recommended 500 km (divide by 1.6 to calculate the miles lol)
Doesn’t matter if walking or running, always seemed to feel right when I bought new ( as in ‘oh yeah, these feel good, they must have been near their 500 km,)
Woods-comma-Elle
Wardrobe fail: just sat down in my new pencil skirt and the zip has broken (so it is done at the top but has come undone further down). I’m now stuck in the skirt, there is no use trying to break/undo the zip as I have another six or so hours left at work and no spare clothes in the office, and instead I have to wait until I get home and then destroy the zip (in the NEW skirt) in order to get myself out of it.
*sniff*
tesyaa
Sad. But if you really like the skirt, getting the zipper replaced is cheap and easy for a tailor.
a passion for fashion
if it is new though, i would take it back right away.
Woods-comma-Elle
Indeed, there is a good tailor nearby who can replace it. Sadly I bought it in Ann Taylor while I was in the US and now I’m back on the other side of the pond, so returning it is not an option! :(
Aggie
Call Ann Taylor, their customer service department is amazing. They will find a way to make this right.
Anon
Really? I’m surprised to hear an opinion that their customer service is amazing. In the past few months, I have had a few experiences of astonishingly bad customer service from them — enough that I’m not planning to shop there again in the future. I hope for others’ sake that my recent experience was an anomaly, and yours is more of the norm.
Anonymous
Yeah Ann Taylor has some of the worst customer service. I guess I am thinking about loft in particular. I ordered a bathing suit final sale, and they only sent me half of it and said they messed up and the top was out of stock. But they still wouldn’t let me return the bottom.
JJ
If it makes you feel better, that exact thing happened to me a few weeks ago. Luckily, my shirt was long enough to cover the wide-open bottom part of the zipper.
Less fun was also trying to rip myself out of my skirt when I got home, too. This post reminds me to take that to the tailor and get the zipper replaced.
Woods-comma-Elle
Yes, luckily I’m wearing a long cardigan, but it’s pretty warm so under normal circs I probably would have taken it off (though I suppose I could just untuck my top).
Ellen
Yay! I just arrived in Pitsburgh! We are late getting here. FOOEY! As for the OP, I agree that you can fix the pencil skirt, but you proabbaly have the same issue’s with your TUCHUS that I do. My tuchus and pencil skirt’s do not mix b/c my body is not thin like a pencil. I need loose fit’s for now until I get my tuchus under control and can fit back in my size 2’s. Mom want’s to stay all week, but I have to much to do to stay that long. FOOEY b/c the weather is not to bad! I miss the city already and hope the HIVE had a good weekend. YAY!!!!!
Bonnie
I tore the sleeve of my shirt Incredible Hulk style recently. So glad I keep extra clothing in the office!
MBAwannabe
FYI – two friends have had this exact same thing happen with Ann Taylor skirts in the last two months. Sounds like a trend.
Manageress
This may have been covered in a previous post, but any ideas or recommendations for an upcoming girls weekend in Denver? There will be three of us and we are going with little to no itinerary. We would like to do some outdoor activities as well as find some good places to eat, drink, and just hang out!
Thanks in advance!
Sasha
I prefer Boulder to Denver. It is just a short drive away.
M
The Cheeky Monk has great mussel pots (and other food if mussels aren’t your thing) and a huge beer selection. Also, brunch at Lola’s is a must any time I go to Denver.
MJ
Yeah–Boulder is better, especially bc you can toddle around drunk/eat/shop your way thru Pearl Street in Boulder and not have to drive (although cabs are cheap in Denver, but not plentiful). I love Steuben’s (which is in Denver), The Pantry (in Boulder), and if you go to Boulder, hike the Flatirons–very typical, but a great, short hike. If you arew willing to drive a bit, the New Belgium Brewery tour in Ft Collins is nice, and Rocky Mtn National Park is up that way too. You could also bag an easy 14er (but that’s a whole-day thing). Check out Gray’s/Tory’s (sp). You might also want to check what’s playing at Red Rocks–concerts there are so heavenly! Have fun!
AttiredAttorney
Bookmarking these for a trip to Denver planned for July! Let me know if you find any other good spots!
ArenKay
Denverite here: there is lots to do. For outdoor activities, I would recommend Botanic gardens, or drive to Red Rocks. There is tons of hiking close to denver! but that may be too outdoorsy. I think the denver Art Museum is great. For eats, I would recommend Linger–with a stop at their rooftop bar for a pre-meal drink, Z Cuisine, or fruition. Those are all on the pricey side; Cheeky Monk is fun and cheaper. Westword, our local free paper, is a good source for resto reviews and upcoming events.
newbee
Depending on how soon you come, there’s white water rafting, mountain biking, hot springs and 14ers in the mountains. Boulder has some great hikes (Bear Mountain, the Flatirons going to the Royal Arch). In Denver, the Brown Palace is supposed to have a fancy high tea. I always like Larimer Square, there’s about 10 great restaurants there including a faux speak easy (The Green Russell). Pearl Street in Boulder is lovely, lots of places for brunch, also tons of happy hours 3-6 (The Med, Salt, The Kitchen Next Door, Brasserie 1010, Aji, etc.). Celestial Seasonings has a tour (North Boulder). The 16th Street Mall in Denver isn’t really anything special. The Denver Art Museum is quite respectable. Also, Coors Field is fun and you can get cheap seats. In all of the local cities, there’s a bunch of decent microbreweries.
Calendar question
How do you guys stay organized among multiple calendars? I’m a mid-level associate and have always used my work calendar associated with my email (Lotus Notes) for all work meetings and events, but an old-school paper Moleskine for my personal calendar (I love paper). I’m recently married and I feel like it would be helpful to have a common calendar for me and my husband (we would probably use Google for this) but the thought of having three separate calendars, none of which is comprehensive, seems ridiculously inefficient and hard to manage.
It sort of seems that in order for a calendar to really work, you need complete confidence that it contains the whole universe of stuff you have going on. No kids yet, but I assume that when we do, this kind of scheduling will only become more complicated. Would love to hear how other people keep their busy lives organized!
Manageress
We use both our work calendars and our personal & life commitments are indicated as such on our work calendars (i.e., I send my DH a planner for brunch plans with friends so he knows it’s there when he checks his work calendar). We only need to coordinate 2 calendars this way and it’s a foolproof method to check our calendar every day!
locomotive
I moved everything to google calendar. There are Lotus-google calendar syncing systems you can download (I just add events to my ‘Work’ calendar from email). On gcal, i have four calendars: work, personal (just me), shared with SO, and shared with family (mostly travel).
Anonymous
+1 to Google calendars
Calendar question
Thanks! What calendar syncing software do you use?
Wildkitten
I use a work calendar for work (and evening events on worknights), a google calendar for my personal stuff, and a paper calendar for big pictures. I assume one of these days I’ll get so busy that I narrow down to one (like when I have kids) but for now I actually really like using all 3.
annie n mous
Another ‘rette suggested Avocado. WE LOVE IT. We had a technology mismatch (he uses a PC/Surface/iPhone, I use a MacBook/Android), so avocado is amazing. It lets either of us put something on the other’s calendar, we got notifications when the other’s phone is about to die…it really has made organizing our lives so much easier!
Wildkitten
I use Avocado for household “to do” lists.
Pink
I maintain my work calendar on my outlook, and my personal calendars on google. They both sync seamlessly onto my phone calendar so I get reminders for all calendars on my phone when I am away from the computer.
Olivia Pope
This is what I do. I like keeping the calendars separate, and I can see my entire day on my phone. Plus I can create events for either calendar on my phone. I send an invite to my DH for our joint events.
Calendar question
How do you guys get your work calendar to sync to your phone calendar along with your Google cals? I can see my Google calendars on my native calendar app on my iphone, but not sure how to do the same with my Lotus calendar (right now I view my work calendar on my iphone using Good). If possible I think that would be the best setup for me too; I like the idea of having some separation but also being able to see everything at once.
BCB
I have to use Good to access my work email and calendar. As far as I know, you can’t sync it with any other system. They have it set up to be secure and only accessible through a work computer, work phone, or via Good on a personal phone. Or at least that is how my company’s IT is set up.
Need to Improve
I use my work outlook calendar for everything (personal and professional), and it is synched with my iPhone. I send my husband calendar invitations for everything he needs to be aware of (after work events, etc.) and he does the same so we are aware of each other’s plans. I also put childcare related stuff on the calendar. My secretary can see my calendar but that’s fine, my secretary knows everything about me anyway.
I LOVE paper and had a paper one for years, but this was the only way to synch up and keep constant track.
S
anon
Just wanted to say that I enjoyed the discussion of thissite’s evolution on the weekend open thread. And I appreciate the effort by commenters to diversify the discussions a bit.
NOLA
I noticed that, too! After everything this weekend, I wondered if there would be any of us left this morning, but this is great!
Woods-comma-Elle
In the context of this post, I’d like to apologise for my frivolous wardrobe malfunction post…
new york associate
Even overachieving chicks have wardrobe malfunctions :)
cbackson
I once sat down in a tight pencil skirt and mytuchus busted through the lining (not the skirt, but the lining) so loudly that secretaries down the hall from my office heard the sound and came to check on me.
So I feel ya.
Ashley
It was work related. No apology needed. Plus it was short and sweet.
CapHillAnon
It hurts my feelings that that you thought we’d all leave over some criticism.
NOLA
I hope you’re joking because, if you’re not, you have no idea what I meant.
Wildkitten
She’s joking.
CapHillAnon
Absolutely joking! Straight silliness over here!
Just like you, I’m relieved to see many of my favorite posters still on today.
Penelope K
New poster, lurker for years. I also enjoyed reading the weekend discussion thread this morning. I’m probably older than Senior Attorney, and so many times over the past few years I’ve thought how helpful something like this site would have been when I was helping blaze the trail for women lawyers in my town many years ago. This is a great site, and I love the fashion + brains combo!
NOLA
Just came from the doctor. I stubbed my toe very badly yesterday morning. I put ice on it immediately but this morning, it was obvious something more was wrong. I have bruising going all the way into my foot. The dr called when I was on the way back to the office and it turns out I have a small fracture in my foot! If it was the toe, it would just be ice and buddy taping, but who knows now. Appointment with an orthopedist tomorrow afternoon. In the meantime, I guess I’ll be wearing open sandals. Today I’m in nice-looking beaded wedge flipflop type sandals (they’re Kenneth Cole and nicer than flipflops) with a dress. I hate to do this because I have meetings with upper level administration but it’s pretty obvious to anyone who sees my foot. It looks AWFUL! Luckily doesn’t hurt. I’m thinking maybe I should wrap the toes with gauze so nobody has to see how evil it looks. Any thoughts?
Diana Barry
I would put an Ace bandage or similar – that way it is clear to whomever you are meeting with that the injury is there.
Wildkitten
And so people don’t accidentally bump into your foot!
NOLA
I know and that really worries me. I honestly don’t wear shoes like this to work because I had broken a toe at work in the past by walking into an electrical box that sticks out of the floor. Sheesh! I’m a menace to myself and others.
Senior Attorney
Ow ow OW!!! Your poor foot!!
Maybe wrapping it would be a good idea both to hide the bruising and to signal at a glance that you’re wearing sandals because there’s a problem with your foot.
NOLA
Well, it may be resolved earlier. The doctor called and said she wasn’t happy that they didn’t give me an appointment today, so they scheduled me with the orthopedist for this afternoon at 1:30. If all goes well, I should know what’s up before my 3:30 meeting. If I have to, I’ll tape it for the meeting (well, I’m using the gauze that sticks to itself because I’m allergic to adhesive).
Anonymous
Does anyone have any suggestions for dealing with a very pessimistic, likely depressed spouse? My husband has always been a pessimist. He’s also struggled with depression in the past. After we were first married (four years ago), he went to a psychiatrist for help with the depression and anxiety. Surprisingly, she never recommended any counseling for him and instead just prescribed antidepressants. He took the pills for awhile and said that he was much better (and his mood did seem somewhat improved) and, after several months and under her guidance, went off the meds. Over the past year, I feel like he’s gotten worse again. I’ve suggested many, many times that seeing a counselor would help him and he sort of agrees but then says that he doesn’t see how someone could help him when the problem isn’t him but the terribleness of everything else. So, for example, he believes he’s a complete failure in life and that it’s too late for him to change course and he’s missed the boat on ever having a decent career. This despite the fact that he graduated with honors from a top college, went on to graduate from a T10 law school, worked in a prestigious office in the federal government, and has forged his own path to found two companies and move out of the practice of law into something that better uses his (considerable) talents. But he feels like he totally screwed up by going to law school instead of business or policy school, that he failed at being a lawyer (truth = he quit his job as a lawyer to pursue something he likes better; untruth he tells himself = he failed at his job), that he wasted his time in law school by not studying harder, and that, at 33, he’s far too old to be starting over (truth = he “started over” four years ago, at age 29, and has amassed valuable skills in a new field; untruth he tells himself = he’s starting from scratch, has no marketable skills, and will wind up working at McDonald’s, if he’s lucky enough to get a job there — I don’t think he’s totally joking about McDonald’s, either). I don’t know what to say to him anymore. I point out all the things he’s accomplished, talk about what kinds of career paths would be open to him with his skills/degrees, and encourage him to do whatever he needs to do to find work that he’d be happy with. Sometimes it helps a little bit. More often he says that I’m unrealistically optimistic. I feel that if you’re unhappy with your situation, you have three options: 1) take steps to change it; 2) figure out how to see the good in it and make yourself happy with it; or 3) wallow in unhappiness. I don’t think #3 is a viable option, especially when you have other people in your life because you’re completely giving up and making their lives miserable, too. But he seems to pick #3 over and over again. This morning he accused me (not for the first time) of being unsympathetic. But I have a hard time listening to this with sympathy over and over. I want to scream “okay, you’re a failure — are you happy?” Because clearly telling him all the reasons he’s not a failure doesn’t work. Nor does dismissing his feelings as silly (I realize that’s never a good solution but honestly I think he’s so far from being a failure, I just run low on patience sometimes). If I ask him “okay, what can you do to change your situation?” He says “make entirely different decisions at every point starting from age 15.” When I point out that if he’d made different decisions, we’d likely never have met nor had our two sons, he says we’d have met other people and never known each other, and anyway I would probably have married someone better than he is so I should wish for things to all be different, too.
I could go on and on (because he also sees the whole world as being in a state of decline, from our government to the people to everything else). What do I do? Is there any way to convince him that his view of the world is skewed and that the real world looks much brighter? He says it’s my view that skewed and that I’m unrealistically optimistic. I may be a bit of an optimist, but I guess I don’t see the point in viewing the world any other way. Why not pick the most positive viewpoint and stick with that? I’m just so frustrated. I’m tired of seeing him so unhappy, and so unaware of his own gifts.
Killer Kitten Heels
This isn’t about competing view points, or whether it’s better to be an optimist or a pessimist – he needs therapy. NOT because his worldview isn’t sufficiently positive (I know plenty of fully functional, mentally healthy pessimists), but because his worldview is interfering with his ability to live his life. Therapy wouldn’t really be about “curing” his pessimism, it’s about helping him find a way to either (a) live comfortably – not constantly whining about what he should’ve done 15 years ago and/or degrading himself – with his present worldview; or (b) develop a new worldview that’s more psychologically comfortable. Maybe re-framing it that way will help him see the potential value in it?
It seems like right now, he’s hearing your therapy suggestion as an attack on him/his worldview, when really, the issue is that he’s unhappy and unpleasant to be around, and having trouble coping with the fact that “everything is terrible.” Instead of fighting him on his premise (“no honey, everything’s actually delightful!”), engage with him assuming he’s right. Assuming that he’s right, and that everything’s actually terrible, wouldn’t he like to have coping skills that’ll make dealing with that less painful/distressing/depressing? Therapy’s a perfect place for that.
Diana Barry
+1.
Senior Attorney
+1,000
anon for this
+1001
As someone who suffers from depression and who sees both a therapist and a psychiatrist (and sees the difference when taking meds + doing talk therapy), I think that Killer Kitten Heels’ idea of framing therapy in terms of developing the skills necessary to deal with the pervasive terribleness is a good one. Since he’s in the mindset that he made less than stellar decisions in the past, it may resonate with him to present therapy as a way to prevent any poor decisions in the future.
And if you are able to convince him, take your time in finding a good therapist. You might have to shop around a bit, find someone who works for your husband.
I hope everything works out for the best!
Anon
Tell him there is one thing that counseling can definitely fix: your growing sense that he doesn’t care enough about you or your marriage to even try to get better.
Susedna
Wow. I really feel for you — it sounds like a really tough situation for both you and your husband.
I’m not really loving the description of that therapist. She just doesn’t sound like she was the right fit for your husband. And even if she was then, she isn’t now. The illness isn’t static, and he may now make a lot more progress with a different therapist.
Might it be possible to remind your husband that one therapist is not representative of the entire community of mental health workers and the resources they can offer? Even if the first therapist was/is not effective now, maybe it would be helpful to try …with a different therapist. Maybe one who is more willing to address the crux issue first through talk, instead of knee-jerk medicating. Medication is always an option down the road, but I think it’s not a great thing for a therapist to resort to that immediately before several in-depth sessions to try to help untangle the patient from the Hydra of his depression. Or to understand just how it can get a grip on him, and talk through some techniques on how to fend it off.
Anon
Anon from below here. Piggybacking off of Susenda’s point, you’ll want to do some research into the types of mental health professionals. For example, psychiatrists can prescribe medication, while psychologists and therapists usually can’t, but that doesn’t mean they don’t offer value. Also look at the different types of therapy, and ask about the professional’s approach: talk therepy, CBT, interpersonal, how they feel about medication, how they envision treatment, etc.
Bewitched
Yes to this. Many psychiatrists just prescribe meds. You have to go to a psychologist (or depending on your state), a licensed social worker for talk therapy. There was nothing wrong with what the psychiatrist did, although it may have been preferable for her to recommend therapy in addition to the medication. In many states, there is a huge shortage of psychiatrists, so they don’t always have time for lengthy talk therapy appointments-it’s more of 15-20 minutes for prescriptions only.
Anon
Rather than a psychiatrist, you might want to try going to a GP for meds, and a therapist for therapy. I went to my GP for some physical symptoms that turned out to be caused by untreated anxiety/depression. My GP recommended a psychologist. I gave them permission to discuss their treatment plans for me with each other, and it worked out great. After a one-year course of this team approach (meds and CBT), I felt I had the tools to deal with my negative worldview and was able to come off the meds. That being said, I know people who are on anti-depressants but who haven’t had good results when they have tapered off. There’s no issue with this- it’s rebalancing brain chemistry – and should in no way be taken as a sign of failure. It’s like a diabetic taking insulin. Your husband might be one of these people, but he won’t be able to tell until he fully addresses his issues.
Let him know straight out that you love him, you are concerned, that you’ve noticed a change in his behavior, you’re worried his depression could get worse like it did last time, and you would like to help him find a solution.
CKB
“Let him know straight out that you love him, you are concerned, that you’ve noticed a change in his behavior, you’re worried his depression could get worse like it did last time, and you would like to help him find a solution.”
This is the approach I use with my dh who deals with some similar issues to your dh. I also sometimes tell him how his behaviour is impacting the rest of the family (in a very loving, concerned way, not at all accusatory or confrontational). Dh usually listens to me because he trusts me to be his barometer on these things since he can’t always tell himself when he’s getting worse. My dh recently started CBT at my encouragement. No real progress yet, but his third appt is tomorrow.
Good luck! These types of situations are so difficult. I’m not always sure that I’m dealing with my dh in the best way, but I do my best.
Silvercurls
+1 re not being embarrassed about taking meds indefinitely in order to rebalance brain chemistry
anon
Oh I feel for you. My ex had severe depression. What I learned – you won’t be able to talk him out of it. The best you can hope for is that he gets himself into regular therapy (at least once, if not twice a week). I’d focus on getting a good therapist – help him find someone he likes, make it a priority (e.g. do whatever you can to afford it regardless of whether insurance covers it) and hope things get better. I’d also recommend seeing a therapist yourself – that helped me tremendously to deal with my ex and then ended up helping me leave. I’m not saying you’ll leave, it’s just good to also care for yourself as depression is contagious, and one of the hardest things to deal with in a partner. Best of luck to you.
Anon This Time
+1000. Your description of your husband matches what my (soon-to-be-ex-) husband was like at almost the same age. If he and you do all the things anon recommends, you may have a good life together. If not, I suggest you be prepared for what may be a difficult marriage. My husband was not willing to stick with treatment, and his depression has gotten much worse. It is grindingly difficult to live with someone who sees only a bleak future. I too wish you all the best.
TravelerAnon
Hi all – wondering where you might recommend for a quick (3-4 day weekend) girl’s trip this summer? Anywhere that’s reasonable to travel to from NYC for that timeframe. We are two extremely worn down women who need to get OUT of New York and far far away from our jobs for a few days. No real preference as to activities – but nothing too uncomfortable. Was thinking Nashville (never been, love the music), Charleston, or maybe even something like Iceland?
AIMS
Martha’s Vineyard. It’s magic. You can take a boat from NYC or drive to MA and take a quick ferry over.
I would think Charleston or Nashville would be very hot and humid and Iceland is awesome but can be very pricey.
new york associate
What about Martha’s Vineyard? You can rent bikes, stay at a B&B, probably find a spa, lie on the beach – sounds good to me. Or Prince Edward Island? It’s the perfect size for exploring in a four-day weekend, the beaches are awesome, there’s fun tourist stuff (well, mostly Anne of Green Gables, but I am Totally Into That), and the food is good. The Maine coast is awesome – we have stayed in Camden and in York Harbor and both are great bases for exploring, and a nice mix of activities. And Montreal is so fun in the summer, especially during the Jazz Festival.
Superga (and other) shoes
I read a recommendation for Superga shoes on this site last week. I am thinking about buying online (free shipping/returns), so I figured I’d see if anyone has tips for sizing. I was thinking about the slip ons, unless the lace-up ones are better. If you have them, do you wear them without socks? Do they get smelly? Other recommendations for similar shoes? Never tried Toms, had a pair of Keds and they were ok (not the most comfortable and got smelly w/out socks, didn’t seem to work with socks).
Anonymous
I just got a pair of Vans in wide width. I love them. They’re supportive and have room for my orthotics. They’re lace-up but I easily slip my foot in and out without redoing the laces.
AEK
My Superga lace-ups are a 39.5. I vary between an 8.5 and 9, and I sorta wish I had gotten the size 40. But I wear them without socks (not particularly smelly) or with liners, and they’re comfortable unless my feet swell at the end of the day. A lot of styles have the rubber-front toe, so keep in mind that’s less flexible.
Superga (and other) shoes
Thanks! Sounds like we are a similar size. I may just get both the 39.5 and the 40 to try. (And thanks, Anon above, for the Vans rec.)
LinkedIn?
Do you accept LinkedIn requests from people you don’t know or have never met? I’m talking about requests from recruiters; it’s more people where you may know one or two people in common/work in the same industry or even appear to have nothing in common.
I’ve gotten a few requests recently and my instinct is to decline them (I feel like a professional networking site should be for people you actually know professionally), but I’m just curious as to how others would handle this.
Susie
If I don’t know them and they didn’t bother to write a note why they want to connect I usually just don’t respond (neither accept nor decline).
Orangerie
+1
Diana Barry
+1
new york associate
Can you get him to go back to his former therapist and get on meds? If he did that once, maybe he would be amenable to doing it again – and then, once he’s medicated and his mood is better, you can push for therapy again.
One other thought: when my DH gets like this, I no longer engage at all. Maybe just stop trying to persuade him that he’s wrong about these things. For example, when he says, “I shouldn’t have gone to law school,” you say, “Maybe so.” He says, “I’m a failure,” you say, “Maybe that’s right.” Don’t commit, don’t engage, don’t persuade or cajole or beg or cry or ask. It sounds like he derives some sort of sick pleasure from fighting with you about this, where he gets to just relish how smart and cynical and miserable he is and you have to be the dumb cheerleader. I would really run from that role. It’s not good for you or the marriage when you’re always the cheerleader and he’s always the miserable, non-participating grouch.
When he accuses you of being unsympathetic (wow, that is so classic and so dysfunctional), then it’s okay to say, “I’ve been sympathetic for years, but that’s not really getting us anywhere. Nothing will change until you want it to. When you’re ready, I’m here.” Then be DONE.
And finally: you can’t change him. Truly, you can’t. All you can do is figure out a strategy for yourself to manage within the relationship. And you might consider therapy for yourself. Living with him sounds exhausting. It might be helpful for you to have a safe space to talk about this.
Good luck.
new york associate
Sorry, this was for Anonymous with the pessimist husband above.
Anonymous
Can anyone recommend a good, affordable cleaning service in the bay area? Our current cleaning service is raising their rates and we’re not thrilled with them so I figured it might be time to look for someone new. We currently pay $65 for an every-other-week cleaning of a 1 bedroom, 1 bath apartment and we’d like something similar in price, but we’re willing to pay a little more for someone awesome. Insurance is a must. Thanks!
Senior Associate
Where in the Bay Area?
Anonymous
Peninsula – we’re in Redwood City
Senior Associate
Sorry, nothing in the Peninsula. Good luck!
Susie
Not sure what the rate would be as my size and schedule are quite different, but I’ve been happy with both the cleaning and reliability I’ve gotten from: http://www.iahousecleaning.com/
It is managed by two ladies who do the cleaning themselves.
Wildkitten
Is the insurance in case they break something? (It never occurred to me to ask about insurance so I am wondering if there is anything else I should be worried about?)
JBB
I have a summer intern (non-law, highly male-dominated industry) starting in a few weeks. I had some good discussions on Lean In with my intern last year, and was looking for other books / topics along the same lines as mentorship beyond her technical work responsibilites. Not to make her internship a book club or anything, but I think these are good discussions for a young lady starting her career to consider.
I was thinking of something about generational differences – she’s a Millenial, I’m a Gen X, our SVP that I report to is a Boomer. My thought was around discussion of making conscious adjustments to communication style to put a best foot forward with the SVP, etc.
Second thought was doing Nice Girls…Office. I didn’t really love the book, but it might be interesting to dissect how specific sections apply / do not apply.
Thoughts? Any other ideas?
Susie
I recently got this for my little sister, I flipped through it and it looked interesting: http://www.amazon.com/Moneypennys-Career-Advice-Ambitious-Women-ebook/dp/B005USZYB2