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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I like the fact that this one-button blazer is a pinstripe in a knit fabric — you don't see that very often. It's a cotton blend that's machine washable. It's always nice to see a range of sizes in regular and tall (0-18), although it looks like the tall is only available in lucky sizes — but that speaks very highly of it, as do the very high ratings. Loft Pinstripe Knit Notched Blazer
Right now for “Friendsgiving” at Loft, you can get 40% off everything with promo code FRIENDS. In this case it's an extra 40% off, which takes this blazer down to $72!
Here's a pinstriped ponte jacket (also machine washable) in plus sizes for $89.
Update: Unfortunately, the tall sizes have sold out.
Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.
(L-all)
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Lynn
That blazer looks really comfortable. Trying to figure out what I would wear with it…
Anonymous
I love it as well. Colored dress underneath or colorful shell with skinny jeans and black booties for a casual Friday. A polka dot blouse underneath would be great. I love mixing subtle stripes and dots.
Heartbroken
I’m still numb. I can’t believe what happened. I look white and I have light hair and blue eyes, but I come from an ethnic minority that is killed, trapped in slavery, jailed and reviled back in the country my ancestors came from. I am also bisexual and have an invisible illness. I am terrified at what’s going to happen. I fear for all those who will face discrimination.
I think of all four of my grandparents, and their six siblings who fled their home country and came here to give their families and better life. They aren’t alive to see this and in a way I’m thankful for that because this would probably kill them.
I turned 18 on election day in 2004. I am a Democrat and have voted that way in every state and federal election that I have been eligible to vote in. Up until Tuesday I lived in a blue state. When George Bush won I was upset that my candidate didn’t win but I didn’t feel numb like I do now. I may not have agreed with him but I never questioned whether he was fit to serve and I would have felt the same way about Mitt Romney and John McCain had they won. In fact I have never questioned whether a politician on the other side of the aisle was fit to serve before this.
Sorry for rambling. I just don’t feel anything and am going through the motions. Sending love to others who I know feel the same.
Lynn
I’m sorry. I’m scared for my friends, I’m scared for our national parks, I’m scared for my job. DC (which went 93% for Hillary) is like a funeral these past two days.
Brunette Elle Woods
I understand how you feel and I feel the same way. I cannot believe women are now being encouraged to get an IUD because he may try to take our rights away. I’ve never given birth so I imagine getting an IUD would be incredibly painful and I prefer to continue using the birth control pill. I listen to Hillary say that we have to give Trump a chance, but I wouldn’t sit back and trust that he will do what is best for me. I think everyone needs to become more involved, active, and aware of the political landscape. At this point we need to start to prevent him from doing all those things that we are fearful he will do while in the White House.
Where did you go, EPA?
This. The only way to spin this is to use it as motivation to get involved. I look back and am embarrassed by how little I have done in the past to advocate for the causes I care about.
Lynn
Agreed. I took it for granted she would win. I voted. That wasn’t enough.
Brunette Elle Woods
95% of my friends voted for Hillary. Everyone on my social media accounts also indicated their support for her. I’m obviously in a dark blue state. I admit to beg naïve and not realizing so many would support Trump, but how could we have really known? Now the only thing to do it get involved.
EM
Yes, but how? With a Republican Congress…and my state senators and reps are all Democrats. What can I do?
Anonymous
Write to your Democratic Senators. Remind them to stand up for Supreme Court choices. Remind them that a greater number of Americans voted for Clinton than Trump. Support them in filibustering or refusing to support a Trump/Pence Supreme Court nominee who wasn’t acceptable. The Republicans didn’t hesitate to block Obama’s choice and the Dems shouldn’t hesitate to fight back against someone that would overturn Roe v Wade
AIMS
Get involved with local politics. Plan for 2018 – so we can take at least the senate so that he will be obstructed in his agenda. Plan for 2020 – that’s when there will be redistricting and we can get rid of some of these gerrymanders congressional districts.
If you can afford it, donate to causes you believe in. Make your voice heard.
nasty woman
I feel you. I live in a red state that has liberal urban pockets- we have gone blue in the past. There have been some efforts by the Pantsuit Nation groups to initiate action- at this point, people are just indicating willingness to help. Point is, might be a good way to connect with people who have similar goals and ideas on how to make change. Strength in numbers.
God this is miserable.
Gail the Goldfish
Plan desperately for the 2020 state races, because (in most states) the state legislatures will be in charge of redistricting. Republican’s Redmap Project was pretty devastating for the democrats (but, I will give them this, brilliant)
Jeffiner
I’m a blue dot in a very red state, and I’m writing my Republican Congresspeople today. They didn’t support Trump, but he still won their party primary and the election. I’m telling them that Trump’s victory and Hillary’s loss show that Americans are tired of the party doctrine. I’m encouraging them to lead based not on their party affiliation, but based on what is best for the country.
Unfortunately, I’m sure some of them think banning abortion and blocking gay marriage and deporting immigrants is what’s best. But I think breaking up the party lines is at least a chink in the wall to start with.
There are a few (very few) points in Trump’s 100 day plan that I agree with – Congressional term limits and focusing on America’s infrastructure for one. McConnell has said he will not consider either of these. I’m encouraging my Congresspeople to consider these issues, and to be open to discussions on other issues.
big orange drink
Same here. I have talked a lot of progressive talk and thought a lot of progressive thoughts, but aside from voting, I have taken almost no action to support the causes I care about. I am a blue dot in a sea of working class white Republicans. The election results and the Cracked article have really opened my complacent eyes. I also found this NYT opinion piece insightful. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/opinion/election-night-2016/stop-shaming-trump-supporters
Today and going forward, I am tasking myself with being informed enough to feel confident about speaking out and speaking up, and figuring out how to best support the issues that are important to me on a local and national level.
EB0220
I totally agree with this. I was pretty quiet during this election because I thought Trump had no chance. I regret that now. I’m not sure exactly how to start but very motivated.
Dulcinea
Just as a side note, FWIW, I have never given birth and I have an iud ( the copper one). It was uncomfortable and painful but only for a few minutes. Monthly cramps are def worse but only really last a few minutes to a few hours at a time and ibuprofen really helps. It’s different for everyone but I wanted to note my experience in case you are considering and iud.
Anonymous
Power comes from the people. Do all you can to stand up for what you believe in. Be the change you want in the world. We have four years and it may be a struggle, but with all the force of good, we can triumph.
Cb
I think I’m in the anger stage of the grieving process and expect it to last for the next four years. I don’t have empathy for Trump voters or need to try and understand their decision making. In supporting a sexist, racist, homophobic candidate, they decided that their self-interest was more important than the safety, security, and well-being of women, the LGBT community, Muslims, and people of color.
Brunette Elle Woods
Grieve while you work to prevent Trump from doing all the things he said he would do. Don’t be defeated.
Sloan Sabbith
Me too. To all of this. I’m in the anger stage and I’m not feeling much love for Trump voters.
nasty woman
+1
Also, I’m alarmed at how quickly the media (including “liberal” sources like the New York Times) has latched onto this narrative that “Trump supporters just wanted to be heard and feel left behind, and we didn’t realize how we’ve forgotten them!” It completely glosses over the vile sexist, racist, bigoted things he’s advocated for (not to mention fascist and mind-bogglingly ignorant), not even addressing or attempting to challenge the idea that their feelings are more important than other people’s civil rights and safety.
nutella
I agree. Someone said it here yesterday – every voter wants to feel pandered to. I understand people wanting to be heard but West Virginia, you are in for a rude awakening if you think things will get better under Trump.
It underscores for me the idea that white pain is more important that non-white pain. We all feel pain. Everyone has their own set of problems. My concern is the idea that white pain or Evangelical Christian pain or male pain is more important than anyone else’s. No. We are all Americans.
I’m still angry. And I’m most frightened of the Supreme Court. There will be one vacancy and possibly two or three. I do not want to be afraid of being r@ped and being forced to carry the baby. And I think so many women feel a surprising pain in feeling her defeat as theirs. As someone else here said, the most experienced woman lost to a man with literally no experience this time. It sucks and feels like a slap in the face to women everywhere. And while I feel a lot of sadness and defeat, I also feel a lot of feminist rage and not ready to take $hit from anyone. I hope it mobilizes our future Madam President out there, whoever you are.
HRC, I’m proud of you for winning the popular vote.
America, 46% of eligible voters STILL DID NOT VOTE. I am sure some of this is systemic disenfranchisement but some of it is also apathy. Encourage others to vote and volunteer in future elections. People who voted for Gary Johnson, I do not like you. Start building a viable third party RIGHT NOW if you want a candidate and get good candidates on there – let’s be honest, weren’t you appalled someone running for prez and getting airtime wasn’t actually able to answer basic questions?? (According to Politico, in Florida, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, Johnson’s vote share would have elected HRC.) Demand better from your tv media. Demand better from your representatives and be active. And demand better from your White House!
pugsnbourbon
“It underscores for me the idea that white pain is more important than non-white pain.”
+1,000,000
irony
“According to Politico… Johnson’s vote share would have elected HRC.”
An interesting irony; in Bill’s presidential race, Perot carved out enough Bush voters to prevent his reelection and put Clinton in the White House.
I do have to think some of those Johnson voters were Republicans who would have voted for another R nominee but could not stomach Trump. That happened even in my red state. So if she had gotten all the Johnson votes, yes, she could have won… but I don’t think she would have gotten them all.
nutella
I agree. I’m not necessarily saying that they all would have gone to her, but it’s reasonable to think some would have and that could have (or could not have) made a difference. I am willing to bet there are a lot of Johnson voters who are disappointed with the aftermath and, well, the only way to have prevented that — in 2016 where we essentially have a two-party system — is to have voted for Clinton. I have no issue with people voting for third parties nor am I saying but for Gary Johnson, Hillary Clinton would have won, but he was a terrible candidate and if a multi-party system is going to work, it needs to start now and not 6 months before the next election on a lark candidate.
Mindy
+ 1 to this.
No, it’s not that that Trump supporters feel left behind or weren’t heard or whatever.
If they think that Trump is going to help them get jobs, better pay, or even give two $hits about them, that’s just delusional. He may say he’s going to do all these things, but he said he was going to run these businesses, and then failed, and then got rich off the backs of his creditors and other american taxpayers, by declaring bankruptcy and not paying taxes for however long he avoided paying taxes.
The thing that bothers me is that they believe lies, rhetoric and fluffery and are failing to look at the very colorful pattern of past behavior.
The other thing that is bothering me is that um no, I’m sorry, but white, males ARE the only ones being heard and have been heard for YEARS. How many POC leaders/influences outside of Barack Obama can you recall off the top of your head? (no, Beyonce does not count for this purpose).
I’d love to hear someone refute the fact that it seems to boil down to
1. 49% of america isn’t ready for a woman president (whether its misogyny or woman on woman hate)
2. 49% of america wants America to be white again
Senior Attorney
Yes! Erin Kaplan had a great piec on this in yesterday’s L.A. Times: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-kaplan-trump-win-anger-20161108-story.html
Excerpt:
“These profiles have carefully parsed what’s going on with these folks — who are they, what makes them tick? Why are such essentially good people so bitter? Thomas Frank’s famous question from the George W. Bush years, ‘What’s the matter with Kansas?’ has expanded into ‘What’s the matter with America?’ And the approach to answering it has been to give Trump voters the benefit of the doubt.”
But since we’re on the subject of ascertaining what’s wrong with America, what about me? Why wasn’t anyone in this election cycle obsessively asking black people what they think of our embattled democracy? Why not delve into how we feel about being targeted yet again, caught up in racial ugliness Trump himself seeded in the birther movement against Obama eight years ago?”
nutella
Exactly. Why is white pain more important than any other pain?
October
Because unfortunately, the white voter turnout was much higher than other groups! If you don’t vote, you become even more disenfranchised. Hillary did not turn out the base. It’s really, really unfortunate.
Scarlett
+1 million
Anonymous
Get over it already.
Brunette Elle Woods
No.
Anon
Yes, it’s time to accept reality and get over it. Trump will NOT be the first POTUS to make over the top promises and under-deliver once elected. The world is not going to stop now that he is in power. America is NOT the centre of the universe. All existing laws and rights do NOT instantly cease to exist. There are governing powers and precedents in place to ensure that one individual does not have the power to overturn such enactments overnight. Stop crying and get on with it.
Ellen
Yes, we need to Just say FOOEY and move on already. He won fair and square, Dad says, and Dad think’s he might get a job somehow even tho he wrote ME in for President. Dad know’s peeople at the CIA and thinks somebody will pull for him for an UNDERSECRETARY of the security agency. I went there once and it was very big. I hope he decides to take the job b/c then I could go visit him in DC and see my old freind’s there. YAY!!!!
CMT
I think today is going to be worse for me than yesterday was. Yesterday I was in shock. Today it’s sunk in.
anon
same. more tears today. yesterday the only time I cried was during Hillary’s very gracious and inspiring concession speech. Today, Samantha Bee’s video & pictures of young girls and people of color are making me cry.
Hunchback
My co-worker, a 34 year old army veteran white male who voted for Trump said today “They aren’t going to try to make abortion illegal right? They just don’t want it to be federally funded. If you want one, you just are going to have to pay for it.”
Anonymous
Blood Boiling. It’s already not federally funded. Trump voters should have asked these questions before Tuesday because YES they want to make it illegal!!
Where did you go, EPA?
Hi all, here we are on Day 2 and I’m trying to shift my thought process to what I, as an individual, can do to support the issues I care about in the months and years ahead, specifically about environmental concerns (many of my family members are social workers or work for socially-minded charities, so I have more people to ask IRL about where to start with those). Certainly donating to and volunteering with environmental non-profits is one option – does anyone have a recommendation for organizations in this space doing good work?
A few states (CA, NY) are expected to keep working on their own progressive environmental policies. What can I do to support these efforts and try to get my state to adopt them too?
Blueberries
+1 For me, figuring out what I can do is more helpful than thinking about what I fear may happen. Here’s what I’ve come up with:
1. Up support of causes that are dear to me and have targets on them. Charitable giving now, political giving as the midterm elections approach.
2. Encourage friends who may be in a position to do something to do so (reasonable Republican staffers on the Hill need to stay there and encourage their bosses to take less bad positions).
3. Focus on practicing and encouraging kindness and inclusion. An older relative says something hateful? I’m going to object.
This isn’t much, but it’s something. Other ideas?
MJ
The Nature Conservancy, Sierra Club, Riverkeepers, Audubon Society and local land conservancies.
If you join the Sierra Club, each local chapter has a Legislation committee (or similar) and their local newsletters keep you abreast on voter-related issues (sample letters, who to lobby etc.) regarding local environmental hot topics. You can join this committee and get very involved or just send their sample letters to your elected representatives to make your voice count. Highly recommend.
nasty woman
What part of the country are you in? What specific topics interest you?
Sounds like you might be particularly interested in the law/policy side- In addition to the groups MJ mentioned, consider groups that focus legal advocacy. These groups usually partner with the citizen groups (so you could volunteer with one of those, or donate to the legal groups). They will be involved in smaller local matters, larger policy initiatives, or national-scale impact litigation (ie, challenging new environmental regulations, etc). There’s the Natural Resources Defense Counsel, Environmental Defense Fund, Center for Biological Diversity, and the Southern Environmental Law Center, which is huge in the southeast (obvi). It does similar work as Natural Resources Defense Counsel, but it’s southeast specific (and has a stronger presence here than the national groups do). They do amazing work-impact litigation, advocacy, and policy work.
Definitely consider getting involved with and/or donating to your local riverkeeper groups. These are the groups that do the crucial groundwork on a lot of water quality issues- they patrol and monitor rivers and watersheds for problems, collect data and provide support (and also legal standing) if litigation is necessary, they raise awareness and do educational outreach. And they’re usually pretty fun people.
There are also many small groups focusing on local energy efficiency/renewable energy issues as well. Generally seem state/region specific.
Where did you go, EPA?
Thanks for such a thorough reply, nasty woman. I’ve really appreciated your posts the past few days.
I should mention I’m not a lawyer, but it still seems like there’s plenty of ways to get involved. I’m in a Great Lakes state so water quality is a huge topic here, but clean energy is a topic I’m very interested in (and very worried about looking ahead).
nasty woman
Thank you! I know I’ve been all over these threads… Your handle breaks my heart. This will probably out me (hey friends!) but I am an environmental lawyer and recently went through multiple rounds of interviews at EPA. Didn’t get it. Part of me thinks that it is a blessing in disguise, considering Trump. But I am seriously doubting that my long-term career goal of getting back into government within the next ~5 is realistic now.
CMT
Thank you so much for this list!
CountC
Thank you for this. I just joined up with both the Sierra Club and TNC. As an avid trail runner, I am embarrassed to admit that I wasn’t a member before today, but I hope better late than never!
Environmental Scientist
I renewed my Sierra Club membership and made donations to the Environmental Defense Fund and NRDC. I’m also a college professor in a swing state, so clearly my most obvious impact is through teaching, but I’m honestly not sure how I’m supposed to go to my class today and teach about climate change without breaking into tears. I’m also well aware of the research that more education only makes conservatives less likely to support many environmental policies, which makes it even more discouraging.
Anonymous
I’m a science journalist and the things I have learned from environmental scientists about climate change are truly terrifying. I was never a denier of climate change, but speaking to climate change scientists and hearing directly from them has made me a billion times more terrified about it. One professor told me the majority of his students don’t believe in climate change at the beginning of the class (red state here) but by the end of the class, 100% of them do. So, it may not feel like it, but I believe you are doing a tremendous amount of good by teaching your students about this. Young minds are a lot more impressionable than the old idiots in the government.
Anon
I was about to make this same post. Here is what I am looking at doing:
(1) Dropping off a donation of postpartum stuff to a home for homeless pregnant teens.
(2) Volunteering with an organization that helps refugees relocating to my city (either through their “first friend” mentoring program or helping to set up housing)
(3) I will speak up every single solitary time anyone makes a racist, homophobic, or misogynistic comment.
(4) I am embarrassed to admit this, but I have never voted in midterm elections, and that will change immediately. I will vote in every single election going forward.
(5) I have seen a lot of hopeless posts on social media and I am trying to encourage others to funnel their fear and anger into action, as well as reminding them that 52% of the country doesn’t feel that way and letting them know that I will stand up and support them and their friends/family/etc.
If anyone has any more suggestions, please post them!
lsw
I would like to say that I am SO GLAD to read your post about voting in midterm elections. It is so important, and I encourage absolutely everyone who reads this to do the same. And educate yourself on who appears on those ballots. It is a simple and extremely important step that everyone can take!
cactus killer
Thanks for this reminder about voting in midterm elections. I too have been complacent about this. No more.
Anon in NYC
Yesterday I added a calendar reminder for 2018.
Rb
We can work out butts off to get women elected to as many positions as possible. School board, city council, state legislatures, congress, senate. We should have 50% of these seats. Women must be at the table, at All The Tables, to hold everyone accountable. We need a good, deep bench of female candidates for future presidential races.
Anonymous
On environmental initiatives, more progress is being made at the local level – the level of cities – than nationally. See citiscope.org/habitatIII/news/2016/11/what-effect-could-president-trump-have-us-cities-climate-action So consider becoming active in local environmental initiatives, which sometimes aren’t even framed as environmental, but might show up as movements for equitable public transport, urban water resilience, etc.
DC anon
check out outdoor alliance, a group that works to conserve public lands.
http://www.outdooralliance.org/
Wendy
Partially off-topic: I just heard on the news that he already broke standing protocol by NOT allowing the media on the flight to DC to meet the president. It’s started already ladies.
I have passion for the environment and his dismissal of climate changes makes me despair over 4 years being lost in the fight against it as well as going backwards and moving away from alternate energy sources. Feeling thankful for living north of the border.
BensonRabble
Thank you for your post and everyone’s wonderful replies. I would recommend becoming involved with 350, an effective carbon group. And a LOT of environmental work happens at the state level so stay focused on what we can change. And action does have a rippling effect; I see that in the PNW with standerds set, blocking fossil fuel exports, and initatives. The strongest players in the arena are the Tribes. Reach out and support their causes.
Anon
Anyone here considering severing ties with friends/acquaintances due to this election? I am a South Asian Muslim woman married to a Latino man, if one of our kids turns out to be LGBT, then we will have won the Republican hate-bingo game. I really cannot bring my self to interact with Trumpkins in my social group that think a couple of extra dollars on their tax refund or an email server is worth dehumanizing me and my family over. I am not questioning their right to an opinion, just their right to take up precious time and space in my life. Is anyone else in my predicament?
Anonymous
What better basis to choose friends on than whether you share the same fundamental values? I would just say, nothing has changed about their views and values and you were fine with it before for some reason.
Anon
OP here,
Seriously??? I was fine with them because I was not aware that they were bigoted misogynistic homophobes! The election brought out their latent defects.
Anonymous
Um it wasn’t an attack? If this is new info absolutely fine to conclude you don’t want to socialize with them. I was just pointing out that if you’ve managed to be friends with someone in spite of these differences for years there might be something worth holding onto. You don’t need anyone’s permission to pick your friends!
Anomanom
yes. I am a veteran, and I have had to block and unfriend several veteran friends in the past few months, and even more since Tuesday. Cleared or not, Benghazi and the clearance level of the emails was a big deal for them. I honestly just can’t expose myself to it now, I’m still so raw. The group at VoteVets has been my saving grace for military perspectives.
I served under Bush, despite not voting for him either time, and I was never afraid for the state of the country like I am at the prospect of this presidency. Bush never gave me flashbacks to the manager I had at 17, who also thought it was okay to “grab women by the p***sy”, and to this day would also probably tell you we were overreacting and it was nothing. I was concerned Bush would bumble us into an international incident, but I was never scared he would purposely go out and create one.
I truly, 100%, love and believe in this country. I joined the military during wartime because of it. But that is because I believe in the ideals of it. That anyone can come here and make their life better. Build families and businesses and speak their minds, and practice their religions. That we can disagree, but that diversity of opinions is what makes things better. I cannot stand by inciting hatred of people because of the circumstances of their birth, what they believe, or who they love.
Anonymous
Thank you for your service.
Anonymous
+1 Thank you for your service!
Signed, a proud sister of two active-duty military brothers, both of whom supported HRC
Anonymous
Hello fellow veteran! I also served under Bush and while I didn’t vote for him or necessarily agree with the wars I was helping prosecute, I was able to sleep at night. My sister is still on active duty and was planning on a military career. She is seriously considering resigning her commission rather than serve under Trump, but is waiting to see how it goes.
Anonymous
Thank you for your service, I admire you
Anonymous
Thank you for your service. I appreciate you.
Sloan Sabbith
How are you feeling? As someone who works with vets, I know that I’ve felt over the last few days like one thing I know I can do is continue to fight like hell for my veteran clients, because they’re probably going to need it a lot more in the next four years, and he could be creating a whole lot more veterans. That worries me. We don’t have the infrastructure to support the veterans we have. How is this going to play out?!
Anonymous
Thank you for your service!
Emmen
My experience is almost mirroring yours right now. Thankfully the majority of my vet friends are decent human beings with empathy and without hate, but there’s a bunch of them overpowering the other voices for me right now and coloring my feelings about my service. I served with them under Bush and we smoothly transitioned to Obama’s leadership together, but this is something else entirely. I’m not a big crier, but yesterday my eyes teared with shattered relief that I had cut the cord entirely (didn’t re-up in the Guard/Reserve) last December and that this horrorshow would not be my boss.
I’m so glad you made this post; this very specific part of the mourning and grief I’m going through doesn’t explain well to my civilian friends and family. I wanted to get involved with VoteVets a while back, but their website has no links about volunteering – just donating.
Anomanom
With Veterans day this week, I think it’s just so much more in the forefront. VoteVets tends to spin up more when the races do to help veteran candidates, so it tends to be more locally focused for volunteering. Their site though, and the vets who run it have been a sane voice for me to listen to when I start to question if I am “veteran enough” since I don’t share all the same beliefs as many I served with.
I had a similar, I’m so happy I’m not able to be called up any more moment.
BensonRabble
As the daughter of two Army captains, I think you are a real Veteran. A Vet believes in the Constitution, Military codes, and the Geneva Convention. Trump doesn’t.
No, the Democrats disconnect with the military community is whole other, important issue.
Anonymous
My partner is a combat Vet from the Vietnam War. He’s a lifelong Democrat with Green leanings, as am I. We both feel like any Republican, even goofy Reagan, would be better that Trump. This guy has no clue and is so mean and hateful besides. I’m terrified.
I work with homeless people. They have a hard enough time with the local monied people who want them gone, whatever that takes. Now that Trump is in, I think the locals will feel they have carte blanche to treat the homeless folks even more horribly. Homeless folks in my area are faced with high rents, high unemployment, high poverty level, and low wages. Many of them have physical and/or mental disabilities which prevents them from getting employment even if there were enough jobs. Talk about a disenfranchised group of Americans! I am more afraid for them now than ever.
At least there has been recent success in securing permanent housing for homeless Vets, considerably more so than with other homeless people.
X
Yes. One of my friends voted for Trump. She sent me some hateful text messages yesterday. She thinks Trump will be a good president and the economy will prosper. She says he’s not a racist and the proof of that is that black people voted for him (!).
While I tried to explain to her why people are upset that Trump won, she attacked me and liberal voters. I said he was racist and she responded “People who don’t agree with you are not racists.” She stated “If I ever posted 1/20th of the things posted on FB today about Obama I’d be arrested…”
I tried to explain that if Romney or McCain won, we’d have accepted it, but Trump is so objectionable. But she doesn’t get it. She dismisses all the the legitimate concerns – his racism, his misogyny, etc. I mentioned that he wants to get rid of the Dept of Education, which would have a direct effect on my job and her response was “He’s not going to eliminate the Dept of Ed. That’s absurd.”
Meanwhile, she spouts his rhetoric about Hillary’s “criminal issues.”
She’s white, wealthy and college-educated. She works for her dad’s company. She lives in a building he owns and drives cars he buys for her. Her son attends a private school that her dad pays for. She also receives an allowance from her dad.
Anonymous
Sounds like you had no respect for her pre-election either?
Anonymous
You disdain her and she sends you hateful text messages. Not sure how this relationship is friendship. Frenemies? Not friends.
X
She is my oldest friend. I have known her since I was a baby and sometimes we have fun. She can be very sarcastic. But she will make plans with me and then not show up and not contact me at all.
So, yes, there are other issues…. This might be the last straw.
Anonymous
It is possible to outgrow friends. I’ve outgrown many…oldest friend doesn’t mean much to me.
Killer Kitten Heels
Slightly off-topic, but I am stunned by how many white, educated, white-collar conservatives I know who are insisting that Trump “didn’t mean” the things he’s said or “isn’t really going to do” the things he’s promised. Like, they voted for him based on the assumption that the most problematic parts of his platform aren’t real and won’t really happen… so either they’re correct and they voted for someone they knew was lying about his positions and intentions to pander to the most extremist part of their party just so he could win the election and they’re totally fine with that, OR they’re wrong and he believes and is going to do every single thing he says and we’re all going to have to live with it. I suppose it’s easy to take a gamble like that when it’s not your life or your safety or your children’s education on the line.
pugsnbourbon
I feel the same! It blows my mind.
Li
I am also flabbergasted!
MB
I’m not stunned. Think about how many white, male, white-collar conservatives say offensive things and then insist they were joking or didn’t mean it? See a theme?
nutella
Agreed. I heard on a podcast (which was quoting someone else) that Trump supporters take him seriously but not literally. It’s the only way to explain it.
I believe privilege allows men (usually) to say pretty much anything. If there’s backlash, you can chalk it up to just joking, the other person lying/exaggerating/taking it the wrong way, or admit it but that you didn’t mean it/it’s all talk. Trump has so much of this privilege (rich, old, white, male, boss) that he doesn’t even need to cover it up with substance. All of his policies are essentially hateful bumper sticker slogans (“build a wall,” “lock her up,” and “make America great again.” Never was this so obvious as in the debates; he does not string together coherent sentences.
anon
Ugh, this, MB.
Yes.
CPA Lady
I would not blame you at all. It is not at all your responsibility to change people. I will say though, that the first time I started to question my traditional conservative stance on homosexuality was when one of my best friends in high school came out of the closet to me and challenged some of the ignorant things I had said. It made me think and completely changed my mind on the subject. It became humanized to me rather than an abstract concept.
Some people are not worth it. Some people have their minds made up and there’s nothing you can do or say, but if you want to stay friends with these people, maybe tell them how scared and devalued you feel and see how they respond. I think our beliefs are shaped and changed by our experiences.
MDMom
+1. I am proud white feminist married to an Indian guy (hindu, not Muslim). My parents and one of my sibs voted for trump. I strongly supported HRC. It never even occurred to me to refuse to speak with them. Isolation does not help anything. I have seen my parents views liberalize over the years on a number of issues with exposure. People fear the unknown. Different segments of America should not be so unknown to each other- if you overlay the electoral map with demographic stats, it would be so stark.
Also, people are complicated. My mom voted for trump based on supreme court, because she’s conservative. She doesn’t like him. She doesn’t hate Muslims but I’m sure she fears them, that’s why his rhetoric of “extreme vetting” isn’t a dealbreaker for her. But I’m also pretty sure she doesn’t know any Muslims! They live in a fairly homogenous rural county. There are no mosques. I knew exactly one Muslim kid in my high school class of 500. My husband’s Hindu family is the first significant exposure she’s had to any non Christian religions and I do think that has had some positive effect. Im sure some people here would say my mom is a racist and I should therefore never speak to her again. I don’t agree. I think we need to talk more about more things.
MDMom
Want to clarify, when I say “I don’t agree” I don’t mean I don’t think my mom is a racist. She isn’t an overt, flying the confederate flag kind of racist and she’s a genuinely nice person who would never be unkind to any person she met in real life. But she has a ton of implicit bias and definitely holds ideas infected by more subtle racism. I just think those are things that can be helped with exposure. People supporting david duke etc cannot be helped.
Anonymous
When we complain that the country is too polarized, the worst thing you (in gnerenal, not you-specific) can do is insulate yourself from people that disagree with you. This website, social media, etc., are echo chambers of people that agree with us. Instead of painting everyone that may have voted for Trump with a broad brush and completely shutting down the dialog, why not discuss this with them? I guarantee you that you know people that voted for Trump but probably haven’t said anything out loud about it and you’d never know otherwise.
I know this is incredibly unpopular view on this website, but I wouldn’t defriend someone or refuse to talk to them because they have different politics or beliefs than I do. And I don’t assume that because they voted for Trump that they agree with everything he says. Now, let the backlash against this comment commence…
Anon
There is a huuuuuge difference btw shunning someone with different views than you and shunning someone who supports those who wish to dehumanize you and strip you of your rights! Your statement suggests that it is the burden of politically marginalized groups to cozy up to their oppressors and make nice. Your statement is white privilege at its finest (and I say this as a white chick!)
Anonymous
I’m not white. But thanks for playing. And thank you for proving my point: It’s easy to shut down dialog by claiming someone is “privileged” and not actually responding to the substance of it.
Anonymous
But its still a privileged view. You can be a POC and still have many of the same privileges due to education, socioeconomic status, employment, etc.
I’m not white either, and I agree with Anon. Why should I associate with people who think I, my family, my community are sub human, unworthy of equal rights under the law?
It is exhausting to be “the teacher”. If you grow up in a primarily white neighborhood as I did, I was always tapped to be the token minority and teach the class about “my people” or be the diverse candidate. Problematic from a representative standpoint, and also exhausting and not my job. In college I learned I’m done with the “teaching moments”. If someone wants to dehumanize an entire group (ban Muslims, Mexicans are all rapists/murderers…Trump even attacked prisoners of war!), I’m not going to try to change their mind. Its easier to not associate with them and their brand of crazy.
Anonymous
And I’m saying that it’s a generalization that all Trump voters think you’re unworthy of equal rights – that’s an assumption you’re making. I didn’t vote for Trump, but I know people who voted for him and don’t support many of the things he said during the campaign. And a failure to recognize those people exist or to automatically malign them with “isms” is a failure to see how this election happened.
Anonymous
I’m Anon at 10:04. One clarification that I want to make: I’m not saying that we need to actively talk to people that say anti-Muslim/anti-gay/anti-woman things. If they’re outwardly manifesting those beliefs, that’s one thing. I’m talking about assuming people who voted for Trump, but have never demonstrated hateful rhetoric or beliefs, are automatically not worthy of respect.
nona
It’s not about making nice; its about not disappearing. It’s about controlling the narrative. If you are present, then you get to contribute to how people talk about you. You get to say “That hurts my feelings and I would prefer you not speak that way.” If you disappear, you have no influence.
Anonymous
Trump’s supporters see things black and white. They are right; we are wrong. I do not think being present, or saying my feelings are hurt, will change that dichotomous thinking.
plkuio
Some on both sides of the aisle see things in black and white. It’s unrealistic (and, if I may say, suggests black and white thinking) to say that all Trump supporters are one way.
nona
I agree with you. I also acknowledge that I can have a hard time not feeling hurt that someone voted for Trump for their own financial self-interest, instead of doing what I think was best for all people’s human dignity. So, I don’t think you have to start building those bridges today, while processing your grief.
But if there is any chance to counter the polarization we have been experiencing, it’s by continuing to talk to people who believe differently and put a human face on the “other”. And when I say talk – I mean talk, not lecture. Find out why they believe what they believe. Ask open ended questions, get them thinking about the way they think about issues. Explain to them what you believe, and why you believe it. Don’t tell them you are right and they are wrong (even if you think they are, or the evidence is objective), because people are more likely to become entrenched in their beliefs if required to defend them against naysayers.
Anonymous
Nope, just nope.
I’m Christian. Many of my Christian friends who voted for Trump have damned me to hell or at best said they’ll pray for me because I’m not being a “true” Christian.
These attacks on my faith hurt. A lot. I now prefer to delete these people rather than engage.
At what point is it ok, in your opinion, to stop trying to talk and explain what I believe? Why should I engage with people who are verbally abusive? People who make me feel like less than a person?
Anonymous
I’m a pro-choice, pro-LBGT+ Christian (Episcopalian), much like Clinton herself.
I tell people like this that I cannot continue a friendship with them if they continue to denigrate my faith and that I will continue to pray for them.
Beth
I agree with this. I’m a Yankee republican who held my nose and voted for Hillary. My friends with similar conservative leaving did the same. Most of my friends are democrats, many of which preferred Bernie but voted Clinton. My Facebook feed had TWO trump supporters- both women in their 50s who did not go to college. One in a deep red state and the other in a deep blue state. My lifelong republican 90 year old grandmother also voted for trump, which I expected, because she voted party lines (she’s also in a deep blue state). I was so shocked Trump won because my circle- even the most conservative- voted Hillary. My father voted for his first Democrat ever this year, and he hates the Clintons. But truely feared for the saftey of the country under Trump. My staunchly Republican CEO cast a Hillary ballot. Hell, the Bushes even said they weren’t supporting Trump!
So within my circle, Hillary was winning. And I think the fact that what won it for trump was non college educated white men, of which i only know a handful, is exactly the point: these people are out there, in our country, and we don’t see them. At least I don’t. Two are Millennials and supported Bernie (then Hillary). The others are older (50-70) and veterans who work physical jobs but are upper middle class and live in New England. They voted for Hillary (and complained loudly) because they saw trump as unfit.
nasty woman
Discuss this with them? Where have you been? I have not seen a single Trump supporter on the internet who wanted to “discuss” anything (I don’t know any in real life. Seriously). I was scrolling through some gloating posts and whatnot on FB last night, and was truly sickened by the tone. I got lost in a web of alt-right bigots who post fun comments and memes like (WARNING, TRULY AWFUL):
“Abandoned city of Pripat near Chernobyl, Ukraine. Perfect place to send Syrian refugees!!”
“Every country and state needs to declare illegal aliens as invaders and treat them as such. I mean shoot on site and stop the invasion.”
“We don’t have a race problem, we have a media problem, a drug problem, a mental illness problem and an entitled welfare state breeding thugs problem.”
“White privilege = being held responsible for the acts of your ancestors by folks who accept no responsibility for the acts of their children.”
“Wikileaks confirms Hillary sold weapons to ISIS!!”
Photo of Trump and Obama shaking hands: “Actual photo of Trump grabbing a p*ssy.”
“Don’t people know Clinton intends to import 10 million Muslims as soon as she takes office?!”
Photo of Obama and HRC: “Lock both of these pieces of s*it up!”
Pictures of nooses with Obama, Michelle, Loretta Lynch, Hillary, Chelsea, and Bill’s names underneath.
———————-
You think I should talk and listen to these people? You think they’ll listen to me? Nope. When the level of discourse has sunk so low, what hope is left? Why I am being asked to put a “human face” on someone who thinks like this? This is not me shutting down dialog. There’s no hope of dialog to begin with. I’m so sick of people thinking that they can get away with saying deeply ignorant, hateful things and then blame other people for “shutting down the dialog” (which you flirted with in your post by saying “let the backlash commence.” poor you, you’re the victim, we get it).
Sure, #notalltrumpvoters, but I really have not seen a single one engage in any attempt to rationally discuss economic policy. I’ve only seen sh*t like the above.
Killer Kitten Heels
And if it’s truly #notalltrumpvoters, where are the “reasonable” Trump voters in all of this?
I’ve seen my conservative friends do a fine job of condemning the “disruptive” “whiny” anti-Trump protests, and yet they remain curiously silent in the face of stories about how “those other Trump supporters” have been harassing racial and ethnic minorities, women, and LGBT people in the wake of the election. Hey, #notalltrumpvoters, how about if those people don’t speak for you, you speak up and disavow them, instead of filling my social media feeds with memes about how peaceful protestors are “whiny p#ssies who should be thrown in jail”?
Anonymous
You’re referring to your social media feed. I see exactly what you’re requesting all over my social media feed. Widen your circle if you need to.
MB
The Trump voters who might be receptive to a discussion are clearly not the ones spouting off loudly on social media. There ARE other Trump voters besides those individuals . . . there have to be or else he would never have won. The “silent” Trump voters, the “leaners” as someone called them the other day, the ones who wouldn’t tell the door knockers who they were voting for, THOSE are the people who we have to reach.
Anonymous
The echo chamber that this site has become is exactly the reason, and a microcosm of the rest of the world, why “reasonable” #notalltrumpvoters don’t speak up. As a daily reader of this site and the comments, I have noticed over the past few months that anytime anyone even references they themselves or someone they know as voting for Trump, the comments about them being racist/sexist/homophobic/ignorant run deep. Even some thoughtful questions about policy have been immediately shut down with “you’re a misogynist if you even consider voting for him.”
I told my friends a few days before the election that I knew Trump would win because most people that would be voting for him wouldn’t admit it to anyone- not a pollster, not their friends, some not even to their spouse for fear of being called any number of names.
Clare
Fair enough, echo chamber.
I also though about what it would have taken for me to not vote for Hilary. And honestly, I couldn’t think of anything. Even if she was under indictment for real financial political misleading a, I would vote for her….because there is no way I could ever vote for Trump, or even another Republican who was considered, with the Supremem court where it is.
HorrifiedAnon
+1 to nasty woman. Again.
Amanda
I agree with this. I am super liberal, and I think we just widen the gap between our differences by automatically dismissing the opposite side. I do think some of them are racist, sexist, xenophobic, Muslim-hating people. I do think a lot of them do not mean to be – I think some of it is unconscious bias (I hope anyways).
I don’t think we will change this by shutting them down or not listening to them. Working with them, listening to their arguments, encouraging them to listen to our arguments is the only way we will be able to bridge the gap. Uniting people is our way forward. I really believe in Hillary’s view of stronger together!
Senior Attorney
You know, my instinct is also to just wash my hands of anybody who supported him. But… I posted this when it came out and I think there’s a lot to it: http://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2016/10/21/13294956/confront-sexist-locker-room-talk-science
It’s about how pushing back, even mildly, can decrease sexist (and, one would hope, racist and homophobic and xenophobic) talk and help keep it from being normalized. Maybe it’s better to keep interacting with the red crowd and pushing back. And really, I think there’s no “maybe” about it.
Anon
MLK, Jr., whose messages have often been deliberately misinterpreted by the right, advocated non-violence and reached out to those who hated him. Result? Assassination.
The more you have in common with Trump supporters you know, the more likely they may listen to you.
Anonymous
I would start by not calling people Trumpkins.
Instead, be the change you want to see in the world. Raise the level of discouse. You may feel that you’re treating people better than they treat you, but you be the light. We can chose to be better than the bad.
Anon
Does the term racist, homophobic, muslim-hating misogynist meet with your approval?
Sloan Sabbith
Ha. +10
Anon
I posted about this yesterday. I have a select few people who are very far on the hate spectrum who had been lingering in my life (mostly on FB). It isn’t a matter of differing political opinions, these are people who post things about gay people deserving to die, promoting repealing the 19th Amendment, etc. I had already removed those people from my in-person social circle, but I went ahead and removed them from social media. Everyone else, I will keep. If we all retreat to our sides and continue the hateful discourse, nothing is going to change and we risk Trump or a Trump equivalent being elected again in 4 years. I didn’t vote for Trump and don’t agree with the reasons other people voted for Trump, but the only way this changes is if we address the underlying problem and work to change others beliefs (and I don’t mean by posting FB rants). The best way to do that is to take action. Volunteer, get out of your comfort zone and talk to people who voted for Trump and try to educate them about other points of view, get involved politically, etc. I was absolutely lazy about being involved before and I am going to use this as a call to action. It is much better than sitting around and complaining about things I can’t change or being afraid.
anon-oh-no
I did. I’ve severed ties with relatives. admittedly, this was the straw that broke the camels back, but there are folks I am just done with.
Rb
Yes, I’ve tolerated my racist in laws for the sake of familial harmony for long enough.
I cut off one of my sisters in laws on Facebook when she would constantly take over the comments on my posts with her crap.
Yes. If you espouse racist, homophobic, misogynistic viewpoints, we ain’t friends. I’m over here with the Nasty Women.
Jitterbug
Yep! I’m generally very conservative about unfriending people, because I use social media to stay connected with lots of people I’m not necessarily close with. If I’m close with someone and we’re on generally good terms, I might be able to tolerate conservative views as long as they’re not obnoxious. But if someone I’m not close with is being horrible, I seriously consider severing ties. I usually talk to someone I know well before cutting them off. And as always, unfollowing is a nice function if you’re not sure you’re ready to completely cut someone out.
Thankfully though, I’m pretty much surrounded by Clinton-supporting liberals.
Anon
Haha I’m sorry but that hate-bingo thing is (darkly) funny! I’m with you myself in some of those demographics and horrified at what’s happening.
Anon
I know it is important to have friends with differing opinions and if we only surrounded ourselves with people who share our same views, there would never be healthy debate or growth.
In this case I have made an exception. Seeing posts equating Trump with love… I’m sorry, it’s just too much. Unfriended.
Anonymous
Interested in this as well. The social implications of a trump presidency are heartbreaking, but we can recover from them. Climate change is literally an existential threat to life as we know it that will be irreversible at some point probably in my or my childrens’ lifetime. Having a president who denies climate change is just so scary. I hope he’s not able to undo the progress that’s been made, but the Paris agreement is probably in real trouble.
Anonymous
Oops, obviously meant for EPA above
Where did you go, EPA?
I read an article on Vox that prompted me to look into this (link to follow – you might want to skip down to the part that says “So is there any hope things won’t actually be this bad?”) and it lays out a few scenarios that I found encouraging (if not super likely to happen at the moment, but that’s why I want to get involved!). Honestly, the rest of the world seems to find the election results so ridiculous that I wouldn’t be surprised if they go the “double down without the US” route, particularly if major US states are still on board.
Very excited to see what suggestions others have for getting involved!
Where did you go, EPA?
http://www.vox.com/2016/11/9/13571318/donald-trump-disaster-climate
Anonymous
I am terrified about what four years of climate change denial means for our planet, but I just want to point out this is not a Trump problem, it’s a Republican problem. Mike Pence, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio are all on record as denying climate change too. And for that matter, Congress could easily prevent Trump from at least doing much damage to existing policies, but they won’t, because they are all Republican climate change deniers too. It is a bit counter intuitive to me to assert that Trump is uniquely disastrous for the country and then to fixate on climate change denial as being the biggest problem with his administration, even though in many ways I agree with both statements.
Environmental Scientist
This is definitely true, but Trump winning is especially disastrous because Republicans now control the White House and Congress and because we’re running out of time. It’s already too late to prevent substantial economic costs from climate change and the longer we wait, the harder and more expensive it will be to do anything. Even if the only species we care about is humans, there are very compelling economic and human health arguments for addressing climate change.
Anon
Well… my thoughts are Trump will bring on a major recession and in my area, the post- Bush recession did more to slow real estate development/ tree clear cutting, road building and gas consumption rhan intentional climate change efforts, if you can find comfort in that
Environmental Scientist
This is also true, but not very comforting!
Anonymous
This is actually comforting, thanks. The economy is also quite correlated with whether the incumbent will win, so a recession would make a Democratic victory in 2024 more likely.
BensonRabble
Yes! We can recover from most things but we can’t recover from inaction or even worse in on climate change. I have been trying to stay positive-ish, focused on the next task ahead, and focusing on strategy. But then climate change creeps across my mind and I feel like screaming.
Anne Elliott
Can this blazer be worn with a black dress? I have a sheath from Hugo Boss that I would like to wear with a blazer…or would the different blacks clash?
PS: south Asian here and I was looking forward to welcoming America to the elite list ( incl 4 out of 6 countries in the Indian sub continent where I’m from) that have voted in women leaders as their PM/president but maybe not in my lifetime now….
Anonymous
Are you 92 or something? This result is horrible, and we will still have a female president in most of our lives.
Anonymous
I’m 31 and I no longer believe I will live to see a female President. As we learned two days ago, America is deeply misogynistic.
Anonymous
I’m 31 and I feel the same way. It’s over.
Anonymous
It is not over. It is bad enough in reality without needlessly catastrophizing things. There is no reason to believe a woman will not be elected in the next 60 odd years. We have enough actual nightmares to worry about now.
ck
You guys are young, and it is understandable why your outlook appears grim this week.
I am 15 years older than you, and I can tell you we have come an incredibly long way. I am very confident we will have a woman president in our lifetime. Don’t give up on us!!! We need you!!! Have faith!!!
I posted a few days ago that I had always suspected the first woman president would be a Republican, but was so happy to see it could be a Democrat. The outcome has left me stunned.
So everyone…. who keeps asking…. what can I do?
Every time there is an issue that is presented by Trump that you agree/disagree with, contact your local senator/reps…. Democrats and Republicans. Calling is better than writing is better than emailing is better than texting. But something is better than nothing. They are your voice. SPEAK.
So everyone…. look up your local House/Senate reps today, store their phone/email/addresses on your phones, and be ready.
Anonymous
I’m in my 20s and I agree. I think parties will learn from this experience and not advance women to positions of leadership.
Anonymous
I am terribly upset by the election results but I am not surprised. I knew the US was not ready for a woman president and unfortunately I was correct. As I thought, Americans would elect a man of color before a woman of any skin tone, religion, or politics. Does that mean that America is even more misogynous that racist? I don’t know.
Anonymous
This is overwrought. Clinton was, objectively, a bad candidate. She’d never do it, but I have no doubt Condi would win an election. Nikki Haley is a rising star, as well. Elizabeth Warren probably would have destroyed Trump. It wasn’t about a woman. It was about this woman.
Anonymous
Elizabeth Warren would not have won either.
Anonymous
There’s no way Elizabeth Warren would have beaten Trump. I can see how, if the Republican party manages to nominate a woman, that that candidate could win a general election. But I don’t forsee Republicans nominating a woman. Perhaps a deeply religious white woman, of the Sarah Palin/Michele Bachman ilk, but that kind of woman would fare poorly in a general election. There’s way too much latent racism and sexism for Condi or Nikki Haley to ever win the R nomination (although I believe if they won the nomination they might well win the general). I believe it will happen some day, but I genuinely do not believe it will happen in the next ~15 elections.
Also remember that, unless we abolish the electoral college, the candidate has to win a bunch of Midwestern and Southern states where there’s even more racism and sexism than there is in America at large. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote and some good it did her.
Gail the Goldfish
I fully believe Nikki Haley could win the general. I seriously doubt she could win the primary.
I am not a fan of primaries, for either party. Maybe party leaders picking the candidate is super undemocratic, but I think it would result in better, more qualified candidates.
HorrifiedAnon
Strongly disagree that HRC was objectively a bad candidate. If we are truly speaking objectively she was overqualified. But lets not let facts get in the way of rhetoric.
anon-oh-no
HRC was not an objectively bad candidate. Most of what people thought was “bad” was things men do all the time in politics (voting to support the war, trading votes in congress as a method of compromise, being “out of touch” based on cost of suit etc), criticism based on her being a woman (shrill, b!tchy, fails to smile etc), or outright falsities (the purported way she treated bill’s accusers, the email “scandal”). Sexism has very little to do with whether people voted for her based on her sex and everything to do with the reasons people rationalized not voting for her.
Anonymous
It’s not great to have a candidate that is under two criminal investigations. The Clinton Foundation is still being investigated and Clinton admitted that the Foundation donations in contradiction to the agreement she made when she became SoS. These are facts. Clinton’s own advisors say her political instincts are sub-par.
cbackson
If you think Elizabeth Warren would have beaten Trump, I think you may be in denial about why Trump won. Going further left would not have won this election for the Democrats.
Anonymous
re: Anon at 11.39
I will be interested to see what happens in various legal proceedings against Citizen Trump, including the two civil suits against Trump, Trump University and Trump Foundation, and if they will influence new role of President Trump.
The Anon You're Referring To
I completely agree. What I’m saying about Hillary as a candidate does not absolve Trump as a terrible candidate, as well.
Anonymous
Lots of women were elected. Look at this:
http://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/news/a40643/election-2016-women-winners/
Jitterbug
I don’t know if I would say it’s over, but it doesn’t look like it will happen soon . . . I mean, is there any woman in this country better qualified for the presidency than Clinton?
Anne Elliott
No, I’m not 92. But you guys seriously under estimate the latent (and not so latent) misogyny in your country….that is all.
Anonymous
No, no we don’t. And your country is proof that a woman can be elected despite deep misogyny. There are sufficient real problems to deal with without placating people who don’t even live here who want to focus on 60 years of doom and gloom to come. It’s a defeatist distraction.
Anonymous
I’m 31 and I think that while we’ve seen America’s true colours this election, the equal and opposite reaction is more women getting directly involved in local, state, and national politics than ever before. That suggests we’ll have greater female representation within a generation, and potentially a female president in the one following that. Or sooner, which would be a pleasant surprise. I think of the book When Everything Changed, or the startling progress of LGBTQ rights over the last 50 years.
Senior Attorney
Hell, I’m 58 and I’m bound and determined to see a woman president in my lifetime!
Elizabeth Warren 2020, anyone? ;)
Aunt Jamesina
I’d love an Elizabeth Warren/Michelle Obama ticket!
January
I really admire Michelle Obama, but she’s said she doesn’t want to run for office. And more importantly, I think there’s a piece of the electorate that doesn’t want to keep passing elected offices among the same two or three families. Jeb Bush couldn’t stop Trump, either.
Anon
+1000
Aunt Jamesina
Oh, I agree and don’t think that ticket would ever actually happen. Only in my dreams…
Brunette Elle Woods
I wouldn’t say I’m optimistic about a woman president in my lifetime, but I’m hopeful. At least we had a female candidate in one of the two major parties. I think that is an achievement even if it is long overdue.
AIMS
I’m not that optimistic either BUT there are lots of dynamic women coming up the ranks:
Kamala Harris (“Do not despair! Do not be overwhelmed!”) was just elected CA senator.
Our senator in NY, Kirsten Gillibrand has a fantastic record and actually won a very right leaning congressional district in upstate NY before becoming senator.
There is Nikki Hailey. There are others. People were very pessimistic about ever electing an African American president, too, not that long ago and it happened. Maybe we need someone with less baggage with the American public. Fairly or not, too many people had deeply held opinions of her. I don’t agree with them but it is what it is. The beauty of a Trump victory is that no one can say that one needs any qualifying experience for the job now. Oprah can run against him in 2020. Who the hell knows what will happen.
cbackson
Probably an unpopular opinion here, but I believe that Hillary Clinton’s dominance of the Democratic Party had the extremely negative effect of suppressing a class of up-and-coming leaders (note: I voted for her). There is a reason Bernie was her primary challenger – the Clintons suppressed competition within the Democratic establishment through their influence with donors and party elites (some discussion here: http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2015/02/2016-democratic-primaries). I’m not sure the Democrats will be able to mount a challenger capable of winning the general in time for the 2020 election.
Candidly, I think the future of people of my political persuasion (libertarian-leaning, but in favor of intelligent regulation of “commons” issues, like environmental protection) is with moderate Republican candidates. There are just more potential leaders emerging there than in the centrist wing of the Democratic Party. It’s weird for me to say this as someone who has mostly voted Democratic, but I’m definitely doing some exploration right now of what the moderate voices in the Republican world look like, especially in my state, because that’s where I think I could likely have the greatest impact.
Anonypotamous
Totally agree (so you’re not alone)
JayJay
Completely agree with this.
ALX emily
I struggle with this when I hear of individual R politicians whose views I agree with (similar-ish to yours I think) but when it comes down to it, party control of a legislative body is what it is. I disagree with so much of what the larger Republican party is doing that I don’t think I could ever vote to give them more control/committee seats/etc. (Clearly individual/executive offices can be a different story.)
Masshole
Charlie Baker, Massachusetts governor. He’s an amazing moderate Republican in a squarely blue state with the highest approval rating among governors in the country. The same people that elected Elizabeth Warren elected him. He’s someone to watch during your time of exploration.
bridget
You don’t happen to read Jonathon Adler’s columns in Volokh, do you?
I think it’s the general idea of what you’re talking about. Let me know if this is way off.
Anonymous
I love Kirsten Gillibrand. I’m not sure I want her to run in 2020 because in 2020 I want the candidate who has the best shot of beating Trump and I think that’s a non-white male (my money’s on Cory Booker) but I would love to see her become president some day.
Anonymous
Are we ready for a gay president?
Brunette Elle Woods
I agree as far as beating Trump. (Almost) Anyone, but Trump.
Anonymous
Cory Booker is not gay. Trump will probably say that, but I see it backfiring.
anon
Hey guys. I’m going to be president one day. I’m in my late 20s and a WOC. Obviously no one can be sure of something like this, but this has been my career goal for as long as I can remember. I’m going to do everything to make it happen. Peace.
anon
DO IT. Keep you personal record clean and your professional record ethical. And go to Emily’s List for funding. I just gave them $1000 and I would be SO pleased if it went to you!!
anonymous
Yes! Look into She Should Run and Emily’s List! I am encouraging strong young women I know to enter into public service because we need more WOMEN!
Anony
I’ve seen a bunch of people listing anti-LGBT as one of Trump’s bad qualities. I don’t recall him saying or doing anything that is anti-LGBT. Am I missing something? I honestly don’t feel like that is an issue he would care about but I very well could be wrong.
Anonymous
He chose a runnning mate who wants to “fix” gays through electroshock therapy.
Where did you go, EPA?
I think a lot of it stems from Pence’s views, which are well-documented and very anti-LGBT. http://time.com/4406337/mike-pence-gay-rights-lgbt-religious-freedom/
Also, as an issue Trump doesn’t particularly care about, it’s probably something he can use to bargain with Congress.
lawsuited
Also this: http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2016/10/trump-supporters-confederate-man-anti-gay-bumper-sticker-goes-viral/
Anonymous
I don’t believe Trump is personally anti-LGBT (or anti-Semitic) and he hasn’t announced any policies that would hurt those groups, but he’s sure not afraid to fan the flames of LGBT hatred and anti-Semitism and get people who are bigoted against those groups revved up. He wanted that white nationalist vote and doesn’t care who they hate.
WaPo
This WaPo op-ed: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/2/donald-trump-holds-high-flag-gay-equality/
anon a mouse
That’s the Washington Times, which is most definitely NOT the Post.
Jules
The Log Cabin Republicans refused to endorse Trump not because of his own statements or views but because he surrounded himself with anti-LGBT advisers and aides and because of the profoundly homophobic RNC platform.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/donald-trump-log-cabin-republicans-230178
Anonymous
Are you serious right now?
Anne Elliott
Second question: do you guys wear coloured blazers with neutral (black, grey, navy) dresses?
I’m thinking red blazer over navy dress…does that sound weird?
Sloan Sabbith
Sounds like it could end up looking very USA-USA-USA, but I think it depends on the actual tones of red and blue.
I do; I wish I had more colored blazers, but I definitely wear them or colored cardigans over neutral dresses.
Senior Attorney
You can add some green or yellow accents to keep it from being too patriotic. Or my personal favorite neutral: leopard!
I love red and navy together!
Bonnie
Not at all. My rushing out the door uniform tends to be dark sheath dress and textured or colored blazer. I usually add a necklace, belt or other accessory that links the colors though.
Anonymous
I’m a Canadian who is still numb and in disbelief. I am very worried about the implications for my country as well, in terms of climate change and trade deals. It’s all I can think about, I can’t concentrate at work, all I can think about is how a huge part of the US is so hateful and hates women. And it makes me feel so sad.
My family has agreed we don’t want to travel to the US in the next 4 years (at least), we don’t want our tourist dollars supporting Trump’s economy.
Lynn
Understandable, but please visit our National Parks. There’s a movement out west to transfer the land to the states, who almost always sell it off to private interests. Supporting our parks is critical.
OP
On top of the economic issues, I don’t even feel safe in the US. Gun violence is so prevalent and I wouldn’t be surprised if there was another terrorist attack because of Trump.
Anonymous
Girl. Get yourself under control. You don’t live here. You won’t be shot as a tourist in NYC. Gun violence is not “so prevalent”. Terrorists attack the West regardless of who is in power.
Your pain? You don’t live here, this isn’t your country, your pain is the least of our concerns, and quit being so smugly Canadian y’all have elected some real winners too.
His words
Well, accordingly to Trump she would be shot if she happened to venture into an ethic neighborhood. In NYC those neighborhoods are everywhere. So yes, according to the new leader of the free world, she might be shot as a tourist in NYC.
Anonymous
Yes, maybe according to him. But not according to reality.
Are there really not enough actual problems to deal with that we need to make ones up?!?
CMT
Yeah, smug condescension is not helpful right now. Or ever. Get over yourself, OP.
Anon
Statistically speaking, you have a greater chance of dying in a plane crash if you take a domestic flight within Canada than you do dying in a terrorist attack or random shooting in the US.
Anon
Or crossing the street in busy traffic.
Anonymous
Is this accurate? Do you have a source for that statistic?
Anon at 9:56
Because this says that “Americans are almost 70 per cent more likely to die at the end of a gun — shot by someone else, by themselves, by accident — than Canadians are to die in a car accident.” And yes, I realize that includes suicides (gun suicides are also much higher than in many other places) but I’m not easily locating a comparison of Canadian airplane accident deaths to American gun deaths.
http://globalnews.ca/news/2378037/gun-violence-by-the-numbers-how-america-canada-and-the-world-compare/
ck
This is absolutely correct.
Even closer to home, the most dangerous thing we do every day is get into our cars.
http://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/mortality-risk
And your risk of injury in a terrorist attack is so low it isn’t even mentioned.
And most firearm deaths occur via suicide or between people who know each other, and most other deaths occur in areas of the country that most tourists do not visit.
Anonymous
Omg stop. We are not all here to coddle your special Canadian needs. This is not about you.
Now, prove to me I’m not more likely to be crushed by a rampaging buffalo in Saskatchewan than drown in a vat of maple syrup in Quebec. Right now. #priorities
Anon at 9:56
ck – your link shows that air transport death are less common that assault by firearms deaths. Not clear how that relates to Anon’s assertion that Canadian domestic air travel is more deadly that random shootings in the USA.
I agree that terrorist attacks are incredibly rare. But I also agree with the OP’s assertion that the election of Trump has made it more likely that America will be attacked. Given all the angst on this blog after the attacks in Europe, I hope you can understand the concern about travel to the US even if the statistical likelihood of being a victim is very low (as it would be for Americans visiting Europe).
ck
Hear you – didn’t want to put too many links in one post ….
You have to stratify the firearm risk appropriately, since most deaths are by suicide/between people who know each other/and most others in areas of the country the OP/tourist do not go. Then the risk drops even more substantially.
2/3 of gun deaths are suicides. 85% deaths are male. Women killed, sadly, are likely to be victims of domestic violence.
Here’s a nice link.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gun-deaths/
But the overall point is that we tend to over-estimate our risks of rare events (gun deaths), and under-estimate our risks of common events (deadly car crashes).
And never mind how crazy the statistics change if you include significant car crash injuries. In my family alone I have two people severely disabled for life due to car crashes.
Bonnie
Gun violence is greater than it should be but not that prevalent. Most victims of gun violence knew their attackers.
MB
Or it’s self inflicted. The Canadian angst about low-risk dangers of traveling as a tourist to the US are inducing a serious eye roll over here.
lawsuited
Focus your concern on Kellie Leitch, who is running for leader of the Conservative party and thinks Trump’s immigration policies are “exciting”.
(Former) Clueless Summer
+1 I am deciding which Conservative leadership candidate to work my a$s off for – looks like Chong at the moment although I have a soft spot for Raitt. If the Republicans had dealt with Trump early on, the US wouldn’t be in this mess. It is the job of reasonable conservatives to ensure we choose reasonable conservative leaders.
lawsuited
Really good idea. I like Michael Chong’s mix of social liberal and fiscal conservative. I don’t usually vote Conservative, but I expect the country will swing Conservative in the next election, and I want the leader to be a good one.
Anonymous
+1. I blame the Republican party a lot. Don’t let 17 people run and allow such a crazy pants to take hild in the chaos that ensues.
I am actually a Democrat (primarily on social and environmental issues) bht somewhat considering getting involved with the Republican party on the off chance it could help steer it in a moderate direction. If they’d give up on climate change denial and pro-life or bust, I’d be ok with the rest. (I think anti-lgbtq and anti-minority is fading anyway, president trump notwithstanding.)
TO Lawyer
+1 – this is f-ing terrifying and I am so scared of this brand of conservatism infecting us up here.
Runner 5
I also don’t want to travel to the US in the next four years. This is part of my reassessing where I spend my hard earned pounds. I also won’t support Dyson or Wetherspoons.
Anonymous
Is anyone else seriously considering moving (for at least the next four to eight years) to another country? I admit that yesterday I spent some time looking up immigration requirements for other places (Australia, Canada, etc.)
Lynn
No. We made this mess. Let’s fix it. This is no time for cowardice.
Canadian Anon
You don’t want to move here. Trust me. It’s not as terrible as Trump being in charge but things are not so great here either. I was actually considering moving to the US thinking Hillary was going to be elected. That’s off the table now, but if anyone is looking for something better I would tell them Canada isn’t the place to look.
Anonymous
Why on earth would you choose the US over Canada, even if Hillary was elected? I mean, the healthcare alone!
Canadian Anon
The treatment my sister needed had a waiting time so long that her doctors told her to find a way to get it in the US because her life was on the line. My parents and her husband’s parents took out second mortgages to fund her expenses. My aunt had kidney stones and waited 8 hours in the ER before she was seen or given medication because of the crowding and wait times. My neighbor’s kid broke her arm at gymnastics and had to wait 7 hours in 2 a total of 2 separate hospitals before she was seen. People have died because of emergency room wait times. Our health care may be free but it comes at a price. And because private clinics are forbidden there is nothing we can do about it.
Canadian Anon
*wait 7 hours in 2 different cities at 2 separate hospitals
lawsuited
These are not the only stories of Canadian healthcare. I’m pregnant right now, and it blows my mind that to date I have had 4 OB appointments, 2 specialist appointments, 4 ultrasounds, 2 rounds of bloodwork, a brief hospitalization for dehydration, and a counselling appointment without having to pay out-of-pocket. And that the women in my pre-natal clinic all comes from very different socio-economic backgrounds and we are all getting the same care.
Anonymous
Where are you located? This is totally out of line with anything that I or my friends and family have experienced in the Canadian healthcare system. And we live in one of the poorer parts of the country.
Anonymous
Umm…I can tell you plenty of American ER horror stories, too.
I fell down the stairs in heels in high school, went to the ER, had an x-ray, and was told it was a sprain. Three days later, in extreme pain, I went to a walk in clinic (where you can go without an appointment but not at the level of an ER). They sent me to get an x-ray, and bam, I had a broken ankle.
My sister in elementary school was likewise sent home from the ER, only to be in pain, visit a 2nd ER, and find out her wrist was broken.
I know people who’ve waited in ERs for hours to be seen, too. A good friend was having a miscarriage and waited 4 hours to be seen while crying the entire time in a public waiting room.
Anonymous
Medical debt is the largest cause of bankruptcies in America. Taking out a 2nd mortgage isn’t that extreme to people who’ve lost everything due to medical debt.
A friend declared bankruptcy even post-Obamacare. He had a planned surgery on his wrist. It didn’t go well, and he had 2 follow up surgeries that were unexpected.
With his high deductibles (he’s a public school teacher), plus follow up visits and lack of paid medical leave after exhausting his sick time, he ended up like 13K in debt and had no choice but to file Ch 7.
Mindy
that (wait times, lack of access to specialists, medical bankruptcies, mortgages, etc) happens here too and we don’t even have basic rights to healthcare and are paying high premiums for health insurance because everybody is forced to buy it, but none of the insurers are really subject to any regulation.
Where did you go, EPA?
If it’s something you’ve always thought about doing and this is just the last nudge you needed, I say go for it. If it’s purely reactionary, I’d say to at least try to stick it out and see what you can do to help (things don’t get better if everyone who voted for Hillary leaves).
If you’re looking for a smaller change, there was a thread yesterday I believe about how the more pragmatic thing would be to move to a swing state. People had a lot of positive things to say about Pennsylvania in particular.
Anonymous
No. I am an Australian citizen and all my extended family lives there. Of course I am not moving. This is my home and I’m going to continue working to make it better. America is where my life is.
Moonstone
Nope — gonna stay and fight.
I will not let these people change everything America stands for without a battle.
MJ
Listen, I lived abroad when both Bushes were president. Every time I got into a cab, I had to disavow whichever Bush to the cabbie, say that I didn’t vote for him, etc. I would say that living abroad, you actually get more curious queries about U.S. politics. It’s not a panacea.
But I support living abroad for other reasons…it’s good fun.
Cb
I was in France during the 2004 election and then visited again right after Obama was elected in 2008. I now live in the UK. It can be tough being an American abroad, particularly when the US is going through a difficult period.
I do have to say though, I was pleasantly surprised yesterday. I woke up to the news and told my husband that I didn’t want to go to work and to go in teach b/c everyone would be mad at Americans (flashback to France 2004). Instead, I walked in to find understanding and commiseration. One of my students came up to me and gave me a hug and asked if I was okay.
ck
I hear you.
I was living in the UK during Reagan. Oh Lordy…….
How soon we forget.
Anon
In the same way that people upthread are telling Canadians that you don’t care about our feelings about the election and that this isn’t about us, I would like to tell you as a Canadian, we really don’t want you moving here. Saying you’re going to move here comes across as totally…well…American.
Anonymous
As an American, agreed. Oh, let’s just assume we can up and go wherever we please, do whatever we please, and presumably complain about it when it doesn’t suit us.
Anon
Yeah, basically, ok – I agree that this election was not about Canada. But on the flip side, Canada and other counties do not exist to be your back-up plan. It’s dismissive to say otherwise unless you are entirely 100% joking.
January
I have a question: is it really all that easy to just up and move to another country? I know people like to threaten to do it around election times, but I assume I could not just pack my bags and move to Montreal tomorrow, even if I wanted to.
Anon
Of course not. Especially if you’re a citizen of another first-world country. In that case you typically need a work-related reason for citizenship.
Anon
Or you could marry a Canadian, or you could be sponsored by a Canadian family member…but if you just want to move and have no connection through work, family, or a relationship, good luck to you. And this is part of the reason it sounds so absurd for Americans to say “oh haha I’m considering moving to Canada.” We have very different values here (Bernie looks right-wing compared to many of our politicians) and I don’t know if Americans realize the extent of it.
Anonymous
“Or you could marry a Canadian, or you could be sponsored by a Canadian family member”
This also takes a long time. It’s not an automatic right to permanent residency. And the processing times alone are long.
Anon
Totally – the processes are long no matter what your route is, but if you have a familial relationship to a Canadian (for example) at least you are eligible at a base level.
TO Lawyer
Does anyone have a cute male friend/brother? I may be willing to take one for the team and marry an American for the sake of citizenship :P
BB
Curious…so if my husband is Canadian citizen (but doesn’t live there today), I still have to apply for residency (and wait) before I have a right to work in Canada – is that right?
Oh so anon
Truth. I immigrated to Canada when Bush II was destroying the U.S. I knew no-one here. It took me 10 years to become a dual citizen. It’s a long, hard, expensive road, but I don’t regret my choice at all.
Wendy
I can’t remember if I posted this link in the Hive already but it gives real info on moving to Canada:
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/americans-it-s-not-as-easy-as-just-moving-to-canada-1.3150096?hootPostID=e4dcc486987bfe7b2f270f4e48e7651e
Anonymous
So. While watching the news about the protests last night, I had a big cryfest venting to my husband (who doesn’t get it, and keeps saying things like “sexual assault is not going to increase because he’s president.”. “but Hillary was awful too, it’s the party’s fault for rigging the primary to put up a candidate that didn’t have the most support”.”it’s just a snapshot in time that says there are still enough old sexist racists to get someone like that elected, it doesn’t stop progress.”) and somewhere along the way I came to the realization that my privilege allows me to vote on moral grounds because I don’t have to worry about my job or feeding my family. This is a tortured analogy, but bear with me: On Naked and Afraid, there was one episode with a vegetarian who eventually ate a snake, and she said that in her real life she was able to make choices about food based on her beliefs because she a had plenty and the means to choose, but out there in the jungle, eating that meat was a matter of survival.
Now, I definitely think the people who believe trump can save them or bring back coal and steel industries are mistaken, but I can kind of see how they feel like the status quo (Hillary) was a sure fail, and throwing civility to thr wind could give them a chance. I have zero justification for the financially secure people who voted for him, though. And I still think it’s regrettable that people in more dire straits chose the way they did, and even more so that it was even an option. Anyway, it helped me feel slightly less angry, so throwing it out there in case it helps anyone else. I’m still pretty down about this.
Anon
Reminds me of Pavlov’s hierarchy of needs.
BB
You’re thinking of Maslow :)
Anon @ 9:43
ha- yes! thanks!
Senior Attorney
Ha! Ring a bell and Maslow becomes self-actualized…
ck
Yes, there is truth there.
When you are worried about the safety and financial security of your family, it is hard focus more broadly on society’s needs.
But many of us worry disproportionate to the true risks. See Canadian’s thread above about fearing coming to the US because of the concentration of guns.
Cindy
But so many more people voted for Trump than those who are really struggling. Didn’t someone just post yesterday that her Trump-voting family was planning a 5-day anniversary extravaganza? Are these supposed to be the struggling people who were left behind by the economic recovery? I get the sense that so many people think they are doing worse than they really are, just because they see minorities making progress or rich people on reality TV.
ck
Of course there are other people who voted for other reasons, and most people do not vote for only one reason. Yes, people do not understand data and TV warps their views of the world.
What is useful is to think about how in the world we have lost working class (rural > cities) families from the Democratic party. We have failed some here, and it is worth re-evaluating how we missed this. We haven’t dealt with it sufficiently during Obama’s administration.
I also liked Gloria Steinem’s comment on the election….. something along the lines that Trump’s win is a vote against the future. But the future is coming anyway….
I truly believe that.
We will need to continue to change society via political change – legal gay marriage/women’s rights/ immigration reform – to slowly drag along many, many people who hold prejudice to close to their hearts.
And for some…. it will take generations…
Anonymous
Or because they are funding their lifestyles with debt
Anon
Yes to all of this – very well put. It can be hard to reconcile but at the end of the day people did not want the status quo, which for better or worse, clinton represents. We need to move forward and support candidates that will “shake things up” in the right way and not unhinged crazies like trump. Hopefully four years of trump will be followed by four years of truly progressive policy.
Samantha Powers
To post something unrelated to the election, did anyone see the Samantha Powers video on the Atlantic (Women in Leadership series)? It’s an interview/day in the life peek that a lot of you here might enjoy.
Samantha Powers
Whoops, Samantha Power. Name fail. Link here: http://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/506165/samantha-power-un/
Anonymous
+1,000,000
Anon
Is anyone else having a hard time with repeatedly being told that he is now the President-elect and we all need to get behind him and support him? I respect the hell out of HRC and Obama for saying it – their message was essential to a peaceful transition. However, my facebook feed has been filled with messages – some even from democrats – that he will be our president and we need to support him. I could not disagree more. Despite being an incredibly hypocritical message (like Republicans and Trump accepted Obama?), I believe it is my right and duty in a democracy to stand up for what I think it right. I actually think it’s UNdemocratic to simply accept the country’s fate and become complacent with his irresponsible and hateful policies.
Brunette Elle Woods
I respect the democratic process and the office of the president, but I do not respect Trump and I will not keep quiet while he is the president elect or the president, obviously since I’ve been all over this blog the last two days when I’m normally pretty quiet.
Anonymous
Same. I’m not going to try to overthrow the government or anything and I don’t challenge the legitimacy of the election. But he is a terrible person and will be a disaster and I see no reason to keep my mouth shut about it.
ml
Yes and no. I think we should absolutely stick up for what we believe in, but burning down democracy by protesting the result of a free and fair election because we don’t like the outcome is not the way to do it. So get behind him in the sense that you accept him as POTUS-elect, and then fight like hell by writing congressmen and donating to causes you believe in, and speak out with messages of tolerance and respect.
I am as horrified and offended at the election result as anyone, but I am also appalled at the protests. I mean, Trump’s refusal to promise a peaceful transition and gracious defeat were one of the many things everyone was aghast at during the campaign. It’s still not ok to protest election results. Be sad, sure, but acknowledge legitimacy. He will be the president. Everyone already knows a majority of Americans disagree with his views, so belaboring that point without tangible action toward advancing your own priorities is not constructive anymore.
nasty woman
I don’t really see anyone protesting the election, or his legitimacy—ie, claiming it was “rigged,” not legitimate, or demanding a recount without justification. That is what Trump indicated he would do.
Protesting a Trump presidency, and everything he stands for, is well within the bounds of reason and acceptable.
Senior Attorney
Why is it not okay to protest the result?
I think it’s not okay to protest the legitimacy of the process, but it’s certainly okay to express your displeasure about the result.
Also, on the subject of supporting vs not supporting, Charles M. Blow put it really well in his column this morning: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/10/opinion/america-elects-a-bigot.html?_r=0
Anon
I think you can accept that Trump won. Because he did. But you don’t have to accept that his policy proposals (to the extent that anyone can even discern what they are) are the right way fix perceived problems. Keep fighting the good fight. The fact that Trump is legitimately the president doesn’t alleviate the obligation of anyone with a conscience to do what they can to protect the things that they value – be it climate change, reproductive rights for women, etc.
Anonymous
Yes, I think this is what HRC and Obama meant. We need to move forward. Rather than protesting Trump, perhaps use that time to collect signatures on an important issue to take to your state or federal representatives.
Anonymous
I am not out there protesting (none in my area, anyway) but I support the protesters.
We have the right to free speech.
The Supreme Court has ruled flag burning is an extension of free speech.
Just because I don’t like someone’s free speech does NOT mean I will deny it. Maybe tomorrow they won’t like my free speech expression. It reminds me of the “they came for the Jews, but I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew…”
Anon
Too soon…
I refuse to stand behind hatred
He!! the F No!
Anon
Approximately 99 million eligible voters did not vote (either because they didn’t register, or they were registered but just didn’t show up to vote).
My opinion is that, if you cast your vote, and you lose, you get to express your frustration/outrage/disappointment. If you were eligible to vote, and didn’t, then STFU because you are part of the problem.
FWIW, I voted HRC, in a blue state, and I’m very sad about the outcome. But jesus people – the time to be this vocal? Was in the lead-up to the election.
Wow
I am sickened that half of the eligible voters didn’t bother to vote. How are people so apathetic?? Of all elections, how could so many millenials and minorities sit this one out?
I don’t understand.
MB
People who are generally untouched (rightly or wrongly) and who believe they will continue to be untouched (rightly or wrongly) in their daily lives by policy decisions, etc., have the ability to be apathetic. For many, it’s not an issue because it’s not an immediate issue FOR THEM.
Shortie
For years my husband and his friends didn’t vote bc a) registering to vote got them on the jury rolls and b) they didn’t think their votes mattered anyway. Bunch of over-privileged white males that didn’t appreciate the lengths women and minorities have gone to be allowed to vote! Needless to say, he’s been voting ever since he and I got serious many moons ago. And voted for HRC. And fwiw, they all lived in SF at the time and were in their 20’s.
Anonymous
Not true about registering to vote puts you on the jury roll. Perhaps, but not exclusively. My husband is a permanent resident, thus clearly not registered to vote, and he got a jury summons. All he had to do was mail it back and say he’s not a US citizen. Only US citizens serve on juries. I suspect they got his info from the DMV. He does have a license.
Shortie
It actually depends on the state. And it has changed over time too. In some states they get it from both DMV and voter registration. At the relevant time for my husband (20 yrs ago), in that state, only voter registration rolls were used.
Anon
It actually depends on the state. And it has changed over time too. In some states they get it from both DMV and voter registration. At the relevant time for my husband (20 yrs ago), in that state, only voter registration rolls were used.
Two Cents
No, and I agree with your friends. He won the electoral college fair and square, and he’s now our President. I didn’t support him, I didn’t want him in office, I teared up yesterday, but here we are. I’ll give him this much, he gave a very generous victory speech. If he keeps up that tenor and does some of the things he has promised (bring back jobs, strengthen the economy, etc.), we’ll be ok.
I’m glad that the protests were peaceful, at least, but it just fuels the fire from those on the right to hate dems even more. Trump hasn’t done ANYTHING yet in office. Wait and see what policies he implements before you take to the streets. Give him a chance. Trump is ultimately a pragmatist. He’s not going to deport illegal immigrants or ban Muslims. This country, that I love, will not allow that to happen.
It’s time for Dems to listen — really listen — to those who disagree with us. While there is a segment of Trump supports who are racist, sexist, etc., there are plenty of others who are not, and have felt genuine economic inequality these last 8 years. They deserve better.
I’m tired of the divisiveness.
Anon for this
+ 1. HRC was generous enough to say that we need to give Trump a fair chance. We should. The time to protest is when/if if tries to do something crazy. Not now.
nasty woman
Lol. Every president promises to “bring back jobs and strengthen the economy.” Jesus.
It amazes me how quick dems are to self-flagellate. I’m sorry, who exactly am I supposed to “really listen to?”
The party that is telling me I should be forced to bear a child against my will?
That gay marriage should not be legal and that gay conversation therapy is appropriate?
That Muslims should be banned?
That blacks are lazy welfare queens?
That it’s cool to sexually assault women?
That Mexicans are rapists and criminals?
That climate change isn’t real?
Many, many people have felt economic inequality in the last 8 years. Sad conservative white people don’t have the monopoly on that. We all deserve economic opportunity. But what isn’t clear to me is why people deserve a free pass for voting for bigotry. Again, I know #notalltrumpvoters. But I’m still waiting to hear from a single one of them (including the man himself) that they denounce hate and bigotry. All I’m hearing is “I want my factory job back that that the Muslim Kenyan sent overseas and get those Mexicans out because they’re taking our jobs and don’t you dare let those Muslims in, also women are oversensitive and actually like to be groped, send Hillary to jail.”
The divisiveness isn’t coming from the democrats. It’s coming from the people who have spent the last 18 months saying hateful things.
Senior Attorney
Right? Good Lord! It’s okay to be divided against all the things that nasty woman listed! Eff that stuff, man!
blue stater
Totally. I have always lived in blue states (cities- Chicago, DC, NYC, LA) and pretty much always voted Democratic and yeah, I want more money and the economy to be better, too! Doesn’t everyone?? (In fact, wasn’t “It’s the economy, stupid” Bill Clinton’s motto? And why the economy was the focal point of the 2012 elections, during which Bill delivered for Barack Obama?) I graduated college in 2008 and was part of the jobless generation for a long time, literally working two part time jobs until midnight because that was all I could find. I want more jobs and a better economy and still mostly vote Democratic for the reasons above.
I know it was a TV show but I really long for a sensible Republican like Alan Alda. I think the tea party has hijacked the Republicans over the last 4-6 years and moderate Republicans (and Democrats alike) are looking for a place for them. It shouldn’t be the kiss of death for a Republican candidate to want women’s rights and smaller government.
January
I’m tired of the divisiveness, too, and I’m also tired of him, and yet – I think I support the protesters, this time. I was worried there would be rioting if she was elected, and I’m surprisingly pleased to see that people are vocally angry with him. He ran a campaign based on sowing anger and division in the populace, and he should have to deal with the consequences. This man should not be allowed to take office without knowing what a mess he’s already created.
So, no, I don’t stand with the President-elect, and at least for now, you can’t make me.
CMT
HRC won the popular vote, but Dems have to bend over backwards to appease the most deplorable Americans . . .
anon a mouse
We can acknowledge that he will win the electoral college without accepting him as president.
CMT
I’m having a hard time with the message that we can’t call out his *supporters* for being sexist and racist. Why is it that I have to welcome them with open and arms and not that they have to stop being sexist and racist?
Senior Attorney
Right? Good grief…
Alanna of Trebond
I think that the blue states should secede.
Name-calling
I’m a Hillary supporter who was completely appalled, in tears, and feeling desperate about the future of this country on Tuesday (especially for women since I’m a lifelong feminist specializing in maternal health issues in my career). I cannot believe that a man who bragged about sexual assault is now our president thanks to the electoral college. However, I keep thinking that all the name-calling towards Trump supporters is only setting us back. Yes, racism and misogyny are rife; that’s undeniable. But many of the poor whites who are racist and who supported Trump have real, definable grievances about the lack of jobs, lack of educational opportunity, sons and daughters in drugs, and other issues that they’ve spoken out loud about. How does it help any of us to respond to a poor racist with “yeah, you’re racist alright, now go away”? Millions and millions of people in the world are racist. Millions and millions of men in the world are sexist, misogynistic pigs. I just don’t see a way forward with addressing their concerns and helping them get better education (among other things).
Anon
Yes. People don’t want to be strong-willed into agreeing with someone else. People don’t want to be forced into admitting their beliefs are wrong. That’s not how psychology works. There’s lot of research on how to convince people of your arguments, how to deal with biases (which we ALL HAVE because it’s a programmed mechanism in your brain). Until BOTH sides see this, change will not happen.
Anon
Name calling won’t help. While some people did support Trump BECAUSE he was a racist, I think most of the people who supported him are ‘meh’ about the awful things he said (e.g., they wouldn’t necessarily agree that Mexicans are rapists, but since Trump wasn’t personally attacking them they don’t really care that he said it). I am coming to appreciate that the hopelessness and despair of working class white America is deeper than I (or frankly any other Clinton supporter) realized. And when people are suffering, we should help – not call them racists.
But on the other hand … it’s hard for me to sympathize too much. Live in an area without job opportunities? MOVE. Having trouble getting a job because you didn’t finish high school? GET a GED. Don’t blame your bad choices on those with characteristics they are born with – immigrants didn’t prevent you from finishing high school. And – why don’t you think Obama helped you? He saved the auto industry in Michigan. He gave a bunch of you an option for health insurance. He extended unemployment benefits, and offered all kinds of programs to help unemployed people take college courses. He created programs to help people who couldn’t pay their mortgage during the crisis. The fact that you chose not to take advantage of any of these opportunities isn’t Obama’s fault – what do you think that Trump will do that Obama didn’t?
Cindy
+1
MB
Move where though? To a place with a higher COL, where they do not have family to provide them child care anymore or where one parent can no longer stay home but may not have any marketable skills to pay for childcare they can’t afford? To a place where they might need more than one car which they can’t afford without jobs? To a place where they would have to rent a new home but for which they don’t have the money to pay a security deposit or qualify for a lease, but may also not qualify for Section 8 and where they may be a years long Section 8 wait list? Or to another LCOL which has better job prospects but for which they are not qualified and can’t get qualified because there are no jobs in their current area which would provide those skills? Where they still wouldn’t have family provided child care?
It’s easy for me to say move because I have a savings account, am well educated, have a paid off car, no children, do not rely on family support for childcare, etc. Are there people who are not looking to find solutions to their problems? Sure. But there are also people who feel forgotten who are doing the best with what they have in the situation they are in and still can’t get by. They may want to pick up and move but they don’t even know where to start or how to go about it and they certainly don’t have a savings account to help them.
ck
YES
It is not as easy as you think.
KMO
To your point about “move where?” I agree that it’s not as easy as it sounds. Earlier this year I read the book “$2.00 a Day: Living on Almost Nothing in America” by Kathryn Edin. The author examines three different communities: Chicago, rural Mississippi, and suburban Cleveland (I think). One of the main struggles faced by people in all three communities is that there’s “nowhere else to go.”
Anonymous
+ 1,000,000
Anon_sad
It’s not as easy as move and get a better job. What job, and where? How do you find the money to move if you, at best, own some land on a hillside that no one wants to buy? How do you get a GED if you live in an area that has no GED programs? No public transportation to allow you to get anywhere if you can’t afford car/gas? What job do you apply for when you move to a city where you don’t know anyone and have no support network to help with things like child care? rural poverty is desperately different from urban poverty, and the resources available to people living there who want to find a way to get out are far far less. There aren’t libraries, or I fthey are they don’t have things like computers and free internet, there aren’t social service agencies, there aren’t nonprofits with rich donors and professional volunteers.
I am far, far angrier at rich privileged folks that voted for trump because they wanted lower taxes and said eff the rest of you than I am at the people who believed his false promises.
Anon
Good feedback – hear that, Corporette Nation that is looking for a ‘what now?’ Let’s look individually at our states and give some thought to the challenges unique to rural poverty.
Are there ‘angel funds’ or something similar set up to help folks looking to move with a deposit on a new place to live with better jobs prospects? If not, we can set them up.
Let’s encourage our state legislatures to fund rural broadband and other internet resources.
Let’s consider GED clinics in rural areas … each of us can volunteer to teach prep classes once a month or so.
And – childcare. Hillary had an actual plan for this (sigh … ) so let’s pressure Trump (with Ivanka’s support) to get a proposal for nationwide childcare assistance on the table.
MB
SAME.
Anonymous
+1 million
This. I can’t believe the elitism and classism that I have seen on this s*te for the past two days. Between the post above telling poor people to just move, to the posts yesterday where someone didn’t have sympathy for minorities and the underprivileged who don’t vote because they face barriers, or where illiterate people were called stupid and it was basically implied that only the elite should serve on juries I am seeing exactly what caused Trump to win in the first place. The people who post here need to get out of their upper class bubbles and see that there are other people with other problems who exist. After reading some of the comments here its no wonder people felt alienated enough to vote for Trump.
Anon
This all completely fair, and I’m the Anon from above who said people should just move. It was reactionary, and unfair. I had a specific person I know in mind when I said it – a nurse, whose degree would obviously transfer anywhere – who complains that she can’t find jobs in her small town. She isn’t married, doesn’t have kids, and doesn’t own a home. She would earn twice what she now makes if she moved 2 hours south. How / why she thinks Trump will help her, I have no idea.
Of course you’re completely right that poor people can’t just move.
Even still – for those that *could* move and choose not to, isn’t that’s a choice you just need to live with? Jobs pay less in rural areas, and the cost of living reflects that. Jobs (generally) pay more in urban or suburban areas, and the cost of living reflects that. If you *choose* to live in LCOL area (and I fully recognize that this is not a ‘choice’ for many people) then you choose not to get the benefit of the higher wage jobs that are available in the higher cost of living areas.
Best Coast
+100
anon
Maybe this is my privilege blinding me, but why can’t you move? Why can’t you find a way?
When we have refugees moving (fleeing) their countries with nothing, literally nothing, and building a life, why is it considered so impossible for intra-country relocation? Refugees who have no possessions, no money, no familial or community support, no English skills, no GED can make it. Is it because they come without the baggage of entitlement or being rooted somewhere?
I refuse to believe people are not able to create opportunities for themselves. Sure, it can be very, very difficult. Impossible? I cannot concede that.
Anon
Attitudes like yours are why Trump won.
Anonymous
It is your privilege blinding you. Read some of the comments above and then try to educate yourself about other people’s real struggles.
anon
How is escaping a war torn country with not a penny to your name not a comparable struggle? How is that NOT real?
What about this attitude elected Trump? I’m not against HELPING other people create opportunities for themselves. I believe in paying taxes to support Federal Programs, I believe in volunteerism and philanthropy. I just don’t believe in defeatism.
A Nonny Mousse
Most refugees are sponsored by organizations that help provide them with some basics–a place to live, some food and clothing, and job hunting assistance. The degree and duration of help depends on the organization.
Most people living in an impoverished area of the US do not have similar aid available.
Everything becomes harder when you don’t have very much money. You need to drive two towns over to apply for food stamps. Your car dies. There is no public transportation. The only people you know who can give you a ride need their cars to get to work.
You take the rent money and get the car fixed, pay half a month’s rent to the landlord, promise the rest next week, call the food stamp office and reschedule the appointment–the next available appointment is three weeks away. And you’ve lost a day’s work, and a day’s pay, for the appointment that didn’t happen. And you’ll lose another day’s pay for the appointment in three weeks. And you still have to pay half a month’s rent and you have no idea where the money is going to come from.
You need paperwork filled out by your employer to apply for assistance. Your supervisor can’t do it; it must be done at the main office–half a state away. You can drive there and deliver the forms, but it will take up to a week to get them filled out. At which point, you can either drive there again, or wait for the mail. Either way, it’s going to be at least a week before you get the forms, and the office has given you 10 days to get them in. And the time you spend driving is time you aren’t working, so, again, less money coming in.
Moving costs money. You have to move your belongings, because you don’t have the money to buy new at your new home. At the very least, that means renting a truck. A new lease means probably first and last month’s rent, and possibly a security deposit on top of that. Plus days spent moving, which means no money at all coming in.
And if you can’t afford a computer and internet at home, and the local library doesn’t have the funds to provide them, how are you going to job hunt long-distance? Are you going to leave home, where you have some kind of support system, and venture a long distance away without a job lined up? When you have no saving to hold you over?
You decide to get your GED. There’s information at the library. You find out that you need to take classes on Tuesday and Thursday nights. You ask your boss at your retail job if you can have those nights free for the next three months. Your boss says no. Do you quit your job? Or forgo getting the GED this year?
There are so many problems to solve here. It is not simple.
cbackson
Owsley County, Kentucky, went for Trump in the election. It’s 99% white.
The median *household* income in Owsley County is about $15,000 per year. $15,000 to keep a roof over your head, food in your children’s mouths, and gas in the car. 45% of Owsley County families live in poverty. 56% of Owsley County *children* live in poverty.
When you are supporting your family on $15,000 a year, there’s barely any play in the budget to buy a pudding cup, much less to pursue higher education and even much less to pack up that family and move them hundreds of miles away to start over without a social network. How do you save up a big-city security deposit on $15,000 a year? How do you pay for childcare in the big city? Getting the power turned on – that’s going to take a security deposit too. And cross your fingers that the car doesn’t break down.
MB
THANK YOU A Nonny Mousse and cbackson.
Anon
A Nonny Mousse and cbackson, you’ve given excellent examples of why its so difficult for folks in rural areas to move …
But why is their plight worse or more sympathetic than that of POC who live in the city and who have faced these same barriers (cycles of poverty, low paying jobs, lack of education, poor options in terms of housing, homes without computers or internet) for years / generations?
Being poor sucks, I get it. But why should the rural poor get the benefit of the doubt – poor, but with good intentions and hearts of gold that we need to help – while urban POC are labeled thugs and welfare queens who brought about their own problems through teen pregnancy and drug use? People in Detroit and in Kentucky both rely upon SSI and Medicaid and food stamps to get by. I don’t see a principled reason to elevate the suffering of poor whites above the suffering of poor POC – particularly when poor POC are also dealing with all of the additional entanglements of systemic racism.
I don’t have a problem with Trump saying he wants to help the ‘forgotten’ people in rural American. I do have a problem with him telling white America that POC (Obama, the Central Park 5, Muslims, Mexicans) are at fault for creating or exacerbating rural poverty.
anon
Thank you, Anon, for making this point.
I know this is way late, but I’ll leave this here,
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/10/misogyny-us-election-voters
nasty woman
I agree with Anon_sad that it’s extremely difficult to just “move.” Such a complex problem and I don’t know the best solution to fix it.
What rankles me is that republicans see the inability/unwillingness of rural whites to adapt, get new skill sets, move, to improve their economic circumstances as a terrible tragedy that needs to be fixed immediately and overcomes all other concerns, but people who rely on public assistance or who advocate for higher minimum wage are told to stop whining, get off welfare, pull themselves up by their bootstraps, “better themselves,” get an education, get another job, etc.
Why have one response to one group of people and not the other? The same people who are crowing about “taking responsibility” aren’t necessarily applying the same rules to themselves/this demographic. I have my suspicions as to why.
Anonymous at 12:21- I keep hearing that people voted for Trump because they felt insulted by liberals (“wahhhhhhhh! You were mean to me! You made me do it!”). Huh? So basically I’m supposed to say “oh ok it makes sense now that you voted for a megalomaniac fascist bigot because some liberal on the internet called you a hillbilly? Very good reasoning, totally excuses your bigotry, too.” Nope. Further, why are we all the sudden pretending that at least some conservatives have not spent the last decades insulting the h*ll out of liberals? The degree that people will go to to excuse this is appalling.
blue stater
I agree. I sympathize with people who cannot pay for electricity and have difficulty providing food for their families. That’s why I think public assistance is a public good, whether you are 7th generation white American in Kentucky or living in subsidized housing in Chicago.
That Owsley County has ~4,500 people. Why are they being pandered to while Black voters in just as dire straits are called welfare queens who need to pick themselves up by their bootstraps like someone else’s grandparents did?
Agreed.
+1 to all of this. Rather than “supporting Trump” in the sense that we should all complacently back him, we should take initiative to educate the misogynists and racists to change their views. I know that is much easier said than done.
Anonattorney
It can’t be done. We literally spent the last 18 months explaining to these people that the promises and statements Trump was making were either lies, or impossible. They don’t listen, because they don’t care about the facts. They just don’t. They believe the media is lying to them, they buy into baseless conspiracy theories, they are inherently distrustful of educated experts, including scientists and economists, and they believe the country was truly a better place during a time when everyone but white men had little to no power.
So tell me: what do we do to educate them? They don’t want facts. They don’t want to be educated. They want someone to massage their egos and make them feel “heard.” And instead of electing someone who actually supports policies that prop up the poor and uneducated, and who wants to provide relief for working families and students, they elected someone who is the embodiment of the elite patriarchy. I say screw ’em.
Lizzie
Although there are much bigger things in the world right now to worry about, I’m distracting myself with the hunt for a new work bag. I can’t find exactly what I want so would love some help. I need a tote bag that fits legal files to carry to court, work meetings etc, that is solid black leather, straps that easily fit on the shoulder, stands up on its own when set on the floor, and I would love to have a very small monogram. I have a Tory Burch Perry tote now and it works fine, but would ultimately like something a little bit larger, handles a little bit longer, more structure, and no brand logos. Budget under $500 if possible.
lawsuited
The Ralph Lauren Newbury Halee tote fits the bill (although it will fit regular but not legal-size paper and I’m not sure what you mean by “legal files”) and is well under your budget.
Lizzie
I mean legal files as in file folders that are legal-sized to fit legal sized paper. That bag is nice, but I need something a bit bigger.
Bonnie
I love Lodis totes and mine has been going strong for a few years with no sign of wear. This is the one I have and it fits a legal size redweld. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0011X5T1U/ref=asc_df_B0011X5T1U4619119?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&linkCode=df0&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B0011X5T1U&tag=wwwshopstylec-20&ascsubtag=2235111302
DC Anon
You need the Cuyana Work Satchel!!! It’s seriously amazing.
https://www.cuyana.com/work-satchel.html
meme
I am a white lawyer in a swing state that actually swung for Hillary (yeah!…small victories). But the area where I live is so red and I don’t know anyone except my husband and me who voted for Hillary within a 20-mile radius (I know a few who voted for third-party candidates).
I’m struggling with being pissed off at everyone I see everywhere because they probably voted for Trump, hating my inlaws, and being embarrassed for being a white person who random strangers probably assume voted for Trump (though Hubs and I were very vocal about our views to people who know us during the election).
I want to print a t-shirt that says, “Don’t blame me, I voted for Hillary.” But I know none of this will do any good and I need to replace my bitter feelings with something productive. It’s not helping me. But I’ve been groped, and I’m just so insulted that so many people can overlook the fact that he treats women like property (plus his billions of other depraved actions/words).
The t-shirt is a bad idea, right?
Anonymous
Order yourself a t-shirt like that from Cafe Press. Wear it as a night shirt or order it as a black camisole to wear under clothes. Might make you feel better.
I slept in my ‘deal me in’ t-shirt on election night. Made me feel better somehow. Still carry my woman card in my wallet.
lawsuited
I don’t think the t-shirt sounds like a *bad* idea…
Bonnie
That shirt already exists. Sign? ;-) http://www.cafepress.com/saproducts/6168621
Scarlett
That has to be horrible. One of my only cold comforts is living in San Francisco and being totally surrounded by like minded people, including my dear husband who just gets it (my heart goes out to everyone struggling with not having support there). I read about the Brexit safety pin idea and maybe that’s something to try where you are: http://laurenbdavis.com/2016/11/trump-death-resurrection-safety-pins/
Anonymous
LOVE this!!!
New Tampanian
I might have to get one of those shirts. I won’t wear it out, probably… well, maybe… lol
Brunette Elle Woods
I want one too.
pugsnbourbon
I’m going to keep wearing my Nasty Woman shirt at least weekly until it disintegrates.
Anonymous
I’m feeling completely miserable as a civil legal aid fundraiser. Reagan tried to eliminate the Legal Services Corporation, the federal entity supporting civil legal aid programs nationwide, and Trump is likely to be just as bad. I worry for our clients, many of whom will not benefit from a Trump presidency in myriad ways, and our staff may shrink due to budget cuts as demand for services increases.
Seeing posters talk about donating to pro-environment, pro-choice, and other causes gives me a small ray of sunshine and hope.
Please consider supporting your local civil legal aid! Poverty law lawyers are underpaid and overworked. In my state, civil legal aid programs turn away 2 out of 5 eligible clients due to funding restrictions and lack of capacity. Your support really makes a direct impact on local families and elders facing legal barriers to safety and stability.
Yet, fundraising research shows that lawyers are LESS likely to donate compared to non-lawyers. Volunteering pro bono is great, but donating is even more important right now.
Anonymous
Thanks for this. I’d thought of many of the other causes you listed but not this.
Are there any specific organizations you recommend?
Anonymous
Programs are all geographically based, so I suggest googling your local civil legal aid provider and supporting them. There isn’t a national provider.
Anonymous
To clarify (wish we had an edit button!):
Google your city/county + civil legal aid. It should pop up :) Thanks for your interest in supporting civil legal aid in your community! It really can make a difference between someone being homeless or housed, or a woman escaping DV or being in danger.
lsw
Just did this. Thank you for posting! (If anyone else is in Pittsburgh, it’s Neighborhood Legal Services Association)
ck
We give to Southern Poverty Law Center. Does that count?
Anon
I don’t think SPLC counts as a local legal aid group. They focus on impact litigation and do not take individual cases. Of course, their impact litigation is important and I support them as well, but if you are interested in having a direct impact on legal aid providers in your community, then you should seek out a local group to donate to.
Anonymous
I have relatives on both sides of the border, my family is split between New York state and Ontario. On Facebook one of my Canadian relatives asked me (not sarcastically) if we could trade Trump for Trudeau. Three of my other relatives liked her post and two of my relatives here in New York state replied no way. I can’t even right now…
lawsuited
I live in Ontario and hearing that freaks me right out.
Shortie
I’m 40. Mother of two toddler/preschool girls. White. Jewish and granddaughter of concentration camp survivors. First generation American. Biglaw. (That’s so I can properly be assessed for my degree of white privilege, which I certainly do have). I think it’ll be at least 20 yrs before we elect a woman as president. Senators, judges, congressional reps, cabinet secretaries and CEOs and other c-suite people, yes. We need a lot more of those first to accustom people to seeing women as authority figures. HRC was held to a much higher standard than a white man would have been. I hope the next democratic candidate is a male of color. I am resigned that a woman just can’t win, but I’m not so pleased with white males right now.
Anonymous
I feel the same way. And I think the Dem nominee in 2020 will be Cory Booker. The Democratic party increasingly relies on the minority vote, and that’s easier to get with a minority candidate.
Anonymous
Cory Booker 2020 and Michelle Obama 2028? Dare a girl dream anymore?
Anonymous
I love Michelle to death, but there’s no way she’ll run. She has made her distaste for politics very clear, and I don’t blame her.
Anonymous
I love Michelle but I would not want her to run – and I don’t know if I could support her as the nominee (obviously depending on who GOP ran against her). She would be underqualified and I really really really don’t want to set a precedent of “the way to the Democratic nomination as a woman is to marry a Democratic president”.
CMT
+1000000 to your last sentence. Plus she has said REPEATEDLY that she doesn’t want to do it. I don’t know why people can’t respect that.
Clare
+1
Anonymous
As a WOC I just want to express to everyone here that you don’t need to point out in your posts that you are white (if you are). I realize there are problems but I am sick of everyone defaulting to blaming white people. In all honesty it makes you look stupid and less credible. I have NO love for Trump but your white guilt isn’t helping matters so please, just stop.
Anon
+1.
Anonymous
Assuming you are married to a white man, or have white male family members, you should cut yourself off from them if you are not pleased with them.
Now if they voted for Hillary then you need to step back with the giant generalization in your post. I could turn around and lump all the educated white women here with the ones who voted for Trump, but obviously that would be a generalization and it would be unfair. You are basically doing the same thing, and going on about your privilege and then complaining about an entire race and gender is detracting from your post and making you look like an idiot (which I’m sure you are not)
Anonymous
Funny how when Hillary was supposed to win everyone needed to get over it if they didn’t like it but now that she lost the electoral college is a sham and Trump should not be recognized.
Anonymous
The undemocratic nature of the Electoral College is questioned whenever the popular vote would have resulted in a different winner (e.g. Gore).
The idea that the President is not directly elected is basically non-existent in any other western democracy (specify western only because I’m not familiar with India, South Africa etc).
Questioning that is not the same as saying that votes were rigged or people were voting illegally or that there’s some kind of conspiracy/collusion with the media per Trump’s campaign.
anon
Yeah, questioning the legitimacy of the electoral college is not at all the same thing as saying that the election is “rigged.” Tell me why you think they are the same. Please also tell me why you think it is legitimate to elect a president that hasn’t gotten the majority vote — and which in effect weighs more heavily votes from rural areas. I’m honestly curious.
Anonymous
Hi Trump supporter — if you want to show all of us educated liberal elites that you’re not as stupid as we presume you to be, then you should defend your reasoning.
Anonymous
I actually think this election is a very good case in point in favor of the electoral college. Not because I like Trump (absolutely not) but because it is really, really unfair for a few states on the coast to steamroll the rest of the country just because the nature of geography and culture means they have more population. If your policies aren’t working for a way of life that dominates a huge swath of the country, you need to find a way to make them more representative.
anon
I hear what you’re saying, but right now only a handful of states count – swing states – and honestly it comes down to a few counties in those states. If I were a red voter in a populous blue state like CA, I’d feel just as un-represented.
Aunt Jamesina
That’s what senators and representatives are for. One person should equal one vote no matter where you live.
Opportunity
I have an opportunity to make a career/lifestyle change that would allow me to be a SAHM (work from home, part time, and I have preschool/school age kids). Work would “pause” my career but would allow me to step back in where I left off (vp level, private sector).
It would come with a paycut that would mean our family would be living “paycheck to paycheck.” That’s in quotes because it includes fully funding our 401k and IRAs (46k; with 10 k post tax), and continuing to modestly contribute to our kids’ 529s. What I guess it really means is no non-retirement/non-education savings. We currently own both cars outright and have $200k in the bank, which is at least a year of living expenses if neither of us work.
What else should I be considering? DH’s career will likely ever have this option.
Anonymous
I’m one year into a setup like this. I work 20-30 hours per month from home and am able to fund my family’s health insurance and max out my 401k. I’m loving the time with my preschooler and 1 year-old. We can only do this because we have an inexpensive mortgage compared to our pre-step-back income. I crunched all the numbers before doing this and concluded we would have to be pretty careful about expenses to make this work, but I’ve been surprised that we have not actually felt pinched. My husband is self-employed and his income went up slightly this year, which helps. I think the childcare savings made a bigger difference than I expected. These 2 things together do not come close to replacing my income, but I think before we were “throwing money at” things a lot more often than now just to put out fires that we didn’t really have time to deal with.
Anonymous
Do you want to be at home with your kids? Do you want to be more financially dependent on your husband? Will you be bored?
Opportunity
We as a family will benefit from more time together– and this would mean DH is doing less of the covering for me in my current travel-heavy job.
Also, as a family, we are slightly more dependent on DH’s income, but currently, I make way more. So it’d be going from 70/30 to more like 40/60 and I could in dire straits go back to my current role/level- or close. Ideally he’d do the leaning-out since he makes less, but my background and career are much easier to do this as he has to be physically in the office and he’s in a niche.
do you want to?
Don’t forget to think about the example you are setting as a role model for your kids, especially if most of the other families you interact with all have SAHMs. By the time I was in late middle school I, and most of my friends, could see the respect that was garnered in the community for those with careers (right or wrong though that may be) and that was especially pronounced for women given the relative rarity of working moms. Some of my close friends from high school say that aside from my mother, they had no one to look to as examples to prove that “women can do anything” – until you start college, pretty much your only exposure to various career paths is through your parents and your friends’ parents.
By high school I really respected the choices that she had made, and now I truly do believe I was better for it. An added benefit that she can provide really good work-related advice, so she has stayed relevant and gets to “mother” later into my life than those SAHMs got to.
My mother did a pause and a return like what you’re describing. It worked fine for her. Frankly, I preferred day care/extended day to hanging out with her all the time (she knows this and finds it amusing that she put that much pressure on herself given that insight). The pause-and-return model did not work out for some other mothers who also thought they had a guaranteed return and ultimately ended up doing work that was basically secretarial.
Ultimately though, do you even want to do this? It doesn’t really sound like it. If there are pressures, maybe find other valves to release first?
October
The example she is setting by choosing to prioritize time with family above all else? I think that is a wonderful model for her children.
OP
Not sure this is how you meant it, but your comment was pretty insulting. Yes, I’ve thought about this. I’m a VP at a big Corp with over 15 years of industry experience and name recognition. I’ll be moving into a consulting role for a series of companies in my industry and doing thought leadership vs continuing the travel and people management slog I’ve been doing. I won’t jump back in as a CxO, but I won’t be answering phones (unless I want to).
Yes, I could find a different job with less travel/a less too heavy company, but I already feel like I missed the baby phase and I don’t want to wake up and have the kids be in college. I make more than DH, but his job/experience makes him far less able to make a move like this. He is running ragged because he single-parents for much of the month.
Anonymous
A FB friend (acquaintance in real life) and Trump supporter got deleted recently.
I posted an article about why you shouldn’t wear Native, Mexican, Japanese, etc ethnic costumes for Halloween. He then started a big fight about I’m oversensitive, Halloween is lighthearted fun…and he even argued that blackface is ok on Halloween (but not other days of the year).
I tried dropping in some links for him to read more about cultural appropriation, he replied that was a cop out and I must be unable to defend myself with my own words. When I said I find it offensive to mock other cultures with often-sexualized stereotypes like the sexy Indian and exotic geisha, he retorted that PC culture is out of control. That’s why he likes Trump, who “says it like it is”.
Nope. Not going to be “friends” with someone who thinks blackface is ever ok. Not going to waste my time and get angry reading what I perceive as extremely hurtful opinions.
Defriend Away!
+100 I defriend constantly. Seriously – no qualms. My friends are somewhere around 200 now, and reflect my true in-real-life friends/family than faux “friends”… and it’s SO.FREEING.
My FB stream isn’t a venue for debate, and especially the mud slinging, name calling “debates” (but really just third grade fights) I’m witnessing constantly at of late; it’s a place to stay connected to people I know, like, love, and respect. If I want to have an intelligent, adult, productive conversation with someone of opposing views, I find a far better platform than a FB feed. Defriend away!!
Anonymous
I think that’s fair. I can be friends with someone whose views differ from mine as a matter of implementation strategy (eg we disagree on the extent to which raising or lowering taxes feeds back into the economy). I cannot be friends with someone whose views are predicated on the systemic oppression of others.
Anonymous
What are your thoughts on women’s events that involve “women activities” (i.e. mani/pedi) vs. just getting together (i.e lunch)?
Anonymous
With friends, or in what context? I’d prefer lunch. More opportunities to socialize, probably cheaper…mani/pedi can be a solo activity if you aren’t seated near friends.
Anonymous
Sorry I should clarify. With work colleagues. I was asked if I want to organize a manicure event for my office. I realllly need a manicure (my company would pay) but I feel a little weird about this.
Anonymous
Internal office event? Would love it.
BB
As someone who doesn’t get manis but definitely eats lunch, I would be against this.
Anonymous
I would prefer lunch. Everyone has to eat, but not everyone enjoys mani/pedis.
Anon
Absolutely hate it. There was a thread in the last few weeks re womens activities done by law firms/companies. At my old firm (and lots of others judging by the posters) standard womens group activities were manis/pedis, shopping events, etc. and honestly I think it made us as a group look even less professional and more stereotypical in front of the guys — oh it’s the girls’ shopping event that night, that means Stacy can’t fly to Phoenix so I’ll take that deposition.
I think lunch/drinks etc. are MUCH better.
Anonymous
As a nail-biter (yes, it’s horrible, I know) and as someone with really messed up feet (6/10 toenails surgically removed due to infection), I rarely get mani-pedis. There is no way I would ever consider going to a professional event where I have to expose these aspects of my body.
I vote lunch.
Anonymous
Thank you for all of the replies. This is exactly what I was thinking! Any ideas on what to say to the guy who suggested this to me? He brought it up by saying it had been successful at other firms. But I’d kinda like him to know it’s kinda belittling to not want to just organize a lunch for us. I’m also not very senior so I don’t know if I can pull that off in a professional low key way.
Anon
Maybe this is just me but I’m a direct person — if he said “do you want to organize a mani/pedi day for the ladies” — I wouldn’t come post on a board about it, I’d say — “no I don’t want to organize one and really don’t want to attend one. How about organizing a lunch, I consider that to be a more professional networking opportunity [than one involving hygiene]” — though I may leave off the bracketed part despite my directness.
Delta Dawn
Wait, what? A man suggested this? Nope. I would definitely tell him that’s not going to happen. You can be low key… although my only attempts at low key are usually just giving a big sarcastic smile when I say something like “Surprisingly, we eat lunch just like men do, BIG SMILE” or “Rather than create another expectation for our female attorneys’ physical appearances, we’ll just do a lunch, BIG SMILE.” I usually try to turn it into a joke. Because honestly, a man suggesting that all the women lawyers go get mani pedis IS a big fat joke.
anon
I’ve been invited to a number of these “women’s event”s. I have hated most of them. All the guys are going golfing – but you ladies head to the spa. I can’t stand spas. (seriously, I want to murder anyone who came up with the concept of ‘spa music’)
Women’s empowerment conference? Let’s learn how to do our makeup! Oh look, pink giveaway bags.
you know what’s really empowering? Being included in the same activities as the men, without a though to gender.
Hunchback
I actually know lots of straight, not even what I would consider metro, men who get manis and pedis.
Maizie
Neither manis nor pedis appeal to me unless I do them myself. I don’t want anyone else barging around on my hands and feet and I don’t want to support an industry that requires people to work amidst chemical fumes for very, very low pay. Thankfully, none of my workplaces have ever suggested this as an activity for its women employees. It’s a ridiculous idea for anyone other than makeup artists or fashion journalists.
anon
When you are seeing a new guy, and you both have fairly busy schedules, how often did you see each other? I am trying to decide if the once a week I currently see the new guy I am dating is normal/less than normal? Or if I am overthinking it?
For context, we are both pretty busy, and he is pretty visible in his field. I am as well, but I tend to have a little more flexibility/less travel. I know he needs down time, but I sometimes find my feelings hurt when I suggest a midweek dinner and he would rather stay in. I feel I may be overthinking, but would love your opinions!
CountC
It doesn’t matter what I think is normal, it matters what you are comfortable with and how you set expectations within your own relationship.
I am a prefer to stay in-type person, so a midweek dinner when I am otherwise busy sounds exhausting. Is he rejecting the dinner out to stay in with you or stay in by himself? Would you be okay with a compromise of staying in but one of you cooking dinner (nothing crazy) for the other – like a taco Tuesday night?
Now that I am a little older, I never go out during the week (actually rarely at all!) and dating someone that wanted to go out in that way wouldn’t work for me. It’s okay to want different things and to have different expectations, but realize that they may not work in the sense of a successful and fulfilling relationship. I suggest talking to him about what his expectations and preferences are, telling him what yours are, and seeing if you can find a compromise.
anne-on
How long have you been dating? If this is a newer relationship and you’re still in the fun/butterfly stage, and only seeing him once a week that might be OK, but longer than that and it wouldn’t work for me. If you want to see him more, and he’s not up for that I think its fair to say that’s a deal breaker for you. You have every right to say that you want to see someone you’re in a relationship with more than once a week.
If the issue is you want to go out, and he wants to stay in why not rent a movie and do takeout on the couch? Or do a coffee date after work?
Anonymous
I think you’re thinking about this completely wrong. Who cares if he is pretty visible in his field?!? If you want a relationship with someone who would rather see you more frequently than sit at home having down time, ask for one. Tell him that’s your goal. See what he says. Who cares if it is normal?
Anonymous
Depends on how new this is. If it’s been two months, I suspect he’s just not that into you and/or looking for maintenance gardening. If it’s only been a short time, then I would let him set the pace. If you don’t like the pace he sets, move on.
Anon_sad
Working on my longer list of action items, but on inauguration day I will be volunteering at a nonprofit for a cause I believe in and that I feel is threatened – probably a group that works for immigrants or refugees. I’m going to try to channel it into something positive rather than wallow in despair.
Anonymous
This is really great. Would be so awesome to see a movement start of people volunteering to support marginalized groups on inauguration day.
ace
Yes – love this idea. I’ve started to look up refugee support groups in my area based on the threads below.
Anonymous
Love this idea. I will try to do the same.
LA
My husband and I will be relocating to the LA area early next year for his new job. He will working out of Century City. While we live in Southern California now, I have never spent much time in LA and am totally unfamiliar with what living there is like (my husband lived there 15 years ago, but I imagined a lot has changed since then!). Can anyone suggest some neighborhoods we should look at on the Westside (or at least that don’t have horrible commutes to and from Century City)? We don’t have kids yet but are going to start TTC next year, so areas with a slightly more suburban feel/have more young families would be nice.
LAnon
Depends a lot on what you want to pay and how much space you need. If your husband is OK with a bit of a commute, you could look at Sherman Oaks or Van Nuys for a “suburban” feel at a more reasonable price. Closer to Century City would be Culver City, which is getting pricier but still pretty reasonable – you can find a suburban feel and also be within walking distance of “downtown” Culver City. Another option would be Sawtelle.
Of course, if money is no object, you are smack-dab in the middle of some of the nicest areas in the city/country! And could have your pick of Westwood, Beverly Hills, Santa Monica, etc.
LA
I’m thinking we’ll need 3 bedrooms/2 baths and we’re in the $5k-$6k range for rent. My husband would prefer a single-family home with yard, but I’d be open to a townhome/condo-type situation to be in the right neighborhood.
PBD
+1 for Culver City! We just bought a condo last year and love it here (previously we rented in Palms, also in west LA). There are also great schools which is one of the main reasons we chose the area. Also Playa Del Rey has tons of new condos/apartments all along Jefferson which are very nice but pricey. Lots of families there, folks working in Silicon Beach, etc.
cld
marina del rey! I lived there for a year and commuted to CC and it was the titz.
santa monica, while nice, has the worst traffic I saw in all of LA; it was great to shop, drink, and eat in SM but you could not have paid me to live there.
LA
My husband suggested Marina Del Ray, but I was worried the commute would be awful. I’m glad to hear it wasn’t too bad! Adding it to our list.
AnonLA
Brentwood! I lived there when I worked in Century City and absolutely loved it, but it is on the pricier side. You probably would not be able to find a 3 bedroom single family home in the $5 – $6k per month range, but it may be doable for a condo/apartment. Brentwood is a really wonderful neighborhood though — cute shops and restaurants, great schools, close to the beach, close to hiking, easy access to the 405, and 15-20 minutes to Century City (less if you you are driving earlier or later when there is no traffic).
I also really like the part of Santa Monica that is near Montana Avenue. Again, a 3bd rental home may be more than 6k, but you probably could find a condo or apartment. Lots of restaurants, very walkable, close to the beach, good elementary schools.
Marina del Rey could take 30-40 minutes to Century City during rush hour.
Hollis
Cheviot Hills is right next to Century City and is in a good school district as well. I loved being able to walk to restaurants on Pico and also, the Century City mall is fantastic and has the best food court ever.
Photos?
This might get buried, but thought I’d try to ask anyway… What’s a good service for printing high quality digital photos? I used the Walgreens/Snapfish service a while ago and the photos all came out pretty dark and grainy. The one time I got really great photos, I actually went to an independent photo framing/printing place, but that’s not too convenient. But maybe that’s what I have to do?
lsw
I really love Mpix.
JayJay
+1 for Mpix. Their quality is excellent. I host all my photos on SmugMug and buy on there, as well, and the quality is great.
anne-on
+1, I really like their quality.
Anonymous
+1 to mpix
Anon
I like Adorama.
Anonymous
+1 to Adoramapix. They’re a camera store for professionals (Adorama) that happens to do photo-printing on the side (Adoramapix), so their stuff is really high quality.
Anonymous
I’be been using ProDPI for a year and tell everyone to use them. Cheaper or comparable to Mpix price. Insanely high quality photos. Free, fast shipping. Friendly customer service – someone answers the phone when you call. The website says you can’t register unless you’re a professional photographer but it’s not true.
Photos?
Thanks, everyone! I’ll probably try sending a couple of photos to each of these and seeing which one I like best.
Senior Attorney
Oh, Leslie Knope! How I love you!
“I acknowledge that Donald Trump is the President. I understand, intellectually, that he won the election. But I do not accept that our country has descended into the hatred-swirled slop pile that he lives in. I reject out of hand the notion that we have thrown up our hands and succumbed to racism, xenophobia, misogyny, and crypto-fascism. I do not accept that. I reject that. I fight that. Today, and tomorrow, and every day until the next election, I reject and fight that story. I work hard and I form ideas and I meet and talk to other people who feel like me, and we sit down and drink hot chocolate (I have plenty) and we plan. We plan like mofos. We figure out how to fight back, and do good in this infuriating world that constantly wants to bend toward the bad. And we will be kind to each other, and supportive of each other’s ideas, and we will do literally anything but accept this as our fate.”
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/parks-and-recreation-leslie-knope-writes-letter-to-america-following-donald-trumps-victory-142904267.html
Scarlett
Love this!
Moonstone
Thanks for posting this. I just read the whole thing and feel a teeny bit better.
Home Office
Home office set-up question:
I have the option to work from home routinely and would like to do so, but my home office set up is not ideal. I want to set it up properly, but I’m not sure how. Looking for potential solutions.
The main issue is that I use a very large wood desk (picture an antique executive desk) that pre-dates home computers. It has significant sentimental value, so it’s staying, and we don’t have space for a second desk.
The current set up: PC tower next to desk with monitor, keyboard, and mouse on the desktop. The desk is too deep for the cords on the monitor, keyboard, and mouse to reach a comfortable location. They are too far back on the desktop and the desktop is too high (I’m petite), so I have shoulder pain if I use it for a full day of work. It is not possible to move them any closer.
I know I want a second monitor (there’s plenty of space for it) and a higher chair with footstool – but I also really, really need to move monitors, keyboard, and mouse forward. Does anyone know of specific products that would do that? Can I get USB extension cords? Should I switch to a laptop (not really in the budget, but could be long term plan) that lives on the desktop, with external monitors/keyboard/mouse? Other ideas?
Anonnnny
Get a longer USB cable.
anon
I think you should get a laptop. I have a similar work from home situation and the laptop saves me because I can pick it up and move to the couch or the dining table or wherever in order to give myself the opportunity to change positions from time to time.
Anon
I have a lap top and docking stations at home and work with monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc. and it makes it so much easier to just go back and forth. I also like that I can work on the train or sitting on the couch too.
Anonymous
Wireless mouse and keyboard should help.
Bonnie
+1 We use an old desk and use the drawer for the keyboard.
anon
Any recs for a low-back bustier-type garment to wear under my wedding dress, that I can order online? I have one from Nordstrom but it’s not ideal, and none of the other ones on the website are low enough in the back.
TIA!
Bonnie
Have you considered having cups sewn into your dress? Much more comfortable and you won’t have to worry about the back.
Hollis
I got one from Macy’s that worked perfectly. It’s been years though. Can you buy a bunch from Amazon that have free returns and send back the ones that don’t work?