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Updated: Apr 9, 2021 292 Comments · by

Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Long-Line Open-Front Sweater

The Personal Shopper (TPS) | ·

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I’m sure some of you live in parts of the country where April means spring weather. In my area, April is a decidedly mixed bag. It’s not unusual to start the day at 35 degrees and end up at 70 degrees by mid-afternoon, so layers are a must.

This long-line open cardigan from Old Navy looks like a great spring layering piece while the temperatures are in flux, and will continue to be useful if you’re in an office with the A/C blasting this summer.

The “neutral beige” shade would be a great option for keeping in the office to coordinate with any other color.

The sweater is on sale for $30–$36 (marked down from $39.99) and comes in sizes XS–XXL. It also comes in dark gray, black, and heather gray. In sizes 1X–4X, it's available in black for $42.99.

Sales of note for 9.16.24

Sales of note for 9.16.24

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About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Ring Setting

    I need to get the sapphire in a ring put into a new ring setting. Does anyone have a recommendation for a good jeweler in the DC area?

    • DC pandas

      I love Mallory Shelter @ SHELTER near Union Market. She has an online form for custom jewlery.

      • Katie

        I had a great experience with Today’s Cargo in Old Town to create a custom ring from an heirloom piece. Very fair pricing and easy to work with.

    • Knope2024

      Tiny Jewel Box was great to work with on my custom sapphire engagement ring!

    • Anon

      Late reply, but Bensons Jewelers downtown is excellent. I had a similar setting some there and am very pleased.

  2. Vaccine hurdle

    I got the first Pfizer vaccine a week ago at a pharmacy beginning with W. There was recently a big story about how they were scheduling everyone at 4 weeks even though it’s supposed to be 3 and the CDC asked them to stop doing that. It’s too late for me since I’m already scheduled. Would you accept the second dose at 4 weeks, a week late? Try to find it somewhere else? W pharmacy will not let us change our second appointment until day 20, so if we go that route we will be trying to get a next day appointment from them on a Saturday which is possible (how we got the first dose), but may be difficult now that my area has opened vaccines to all.

    • AnonMom

      If it were me, I would keep the 4 week appointment until I actually have the second shot in my arm. In the meantime, I would try to schedule the second one elsewhere for 3 weeks out, and if I couldn’t do that I would try the day 20 rescheduling. But if neither of those work out, I wouldn’t worry too much and would just get my second shot at 4 weeks.

      • Cb

        In the UK, we’re doing them with a 12 week gap, and there is some suggestion that a longer gap is more effective. Although Pfizer disapproves, and who knows with this incompetent government.

        • Anonymous

          Canada is doing up to 16 weeks. No reports of lack of efficacy or diminished efficacy so far.

    • LaurenB

      A/c to my physician spouse who gets briefings on all things vaccine every evening, it’s fine. You can flex that week and it’s nothing to worry about. We actually received our second doses of Pfizer a few days before our 3 week mark.

    • Anon

      Keep the appointment, this is not an issue. Delaying the 2nd shot for a week will not impact the overall efficacy long-term. All it does is delay by a week when you will reach max immunity. The vaccine distribution system is set to send the appropriate amount of first and second doses to each facility that vaccinates. So logistically it makes it harder when people don’t get first and second doses at the same place. Many places will not schedule you for a second dose if you didn’t get the first at their location because that would take a vaccine away from someone who did get their shot there and leave them short.

      • Anonymous

        Yes. This comment exactly. I’m not a pharmacist, but my sister is and they are encountering nearly 40% cancellations as people shop around for appointments either closer or at a more convenient time. Usually this means that the pharmacy staff, not some wonderful online scheduler, has to physically go through a waitlist to try and find someone to get their shot without being able to schedule them for a second. And if that doesn’t work, they call grocery stores, post offices, police departments, whoever they can get their hands on to fill that spot. It’s a significant extra burden on our pharmacy staff, who are doing all of this on top of their already busy script-filling and counseling schedule.

      • Anon

        Delaying the second shot by a week in terms of reaching full immunity is not a tiny little thing. That’s more time until full protection and that may place OP at risk.

        • anon

          Sure it’s not ideal but she can be cautious for one more week. We’ve been doing it for a year, what’s a few more days at this point? Plus Moderna spacing is 4 weeks so loads of other people are in the same boat.

          To answer the actual question: getting the second dose (for either vax) within 6 weeks is perfectly fine.

        • Anonymous

          Not significantly. The first dose works pretty well and we are talking about 7 days.
          I am constantly shocked at how rigid people on this board are. I guess I just don’t take myself that seriously.

          • Anon

            I understand that a lot of people here like to optimize. I do too. But it’s also an unrealistic perspective on the science here.

          • Anon

            Same. Especially considering that by week 3 with Pfizer you’re at the same (possibly better) protection levels as J&J

    • Anonymous

      The emergency use authorization from the FDA authorizes a second dose given between 3 and 6 weeks. Walgreens just did 4 weeks for ease of scheduling. I wouldn’t worry at all.

      • Cat

        FWIW, if CVS has slots in your area, they allow scheduling of second-dose appointments specifically. I have no idea how they manage the overall demand with this practice but I presume they have figured it out.

      • Anonymous

        This. In my country, it’s specified that it’s important to wait a minimum of 21 days. More is fine.

    • Anon

      I would keep it. I was reading about what you should do if you happen to become pregnant between doses (we are ttc), and they say you can go ahead with dose 2 as scheduled or wait until your 2nd or 3rd trimester. If they are suggesting it’s ok to wait like 6 months, I’m sure a week or two is nbd.

    • Anon

      My 86 year old mother was vaccinated 4 weeks apart – standard at the facility she used.

    • Anon

      I disagree. I would call and try to get it between three and four weeks. What’s the harm in calling? Walgreens did not delay it to four weeks for clinical reasons and they have since changed back to the recommended interval.

      • January

        I think it is likely that the pharmacy will either reschedule your 4-week appointment, if supply allows. My parents were originally on a 4-week schedule and were called in early for their second doses.

    • CHL

      I got mine yesterday at the same pharmacy chain and he said to call a few days before 3 weeks and they will do everything to try to get you in. Worst case (and I know it’s annoying) is that you call every day, they can’t get you in and you go with the 4 weeks which is effective and you’re just at risk “one more week” after like 53 weeks of having nothing. That’s how I’m looking at it.

    • Anonymous

      You have already invested too much time into this. The protocol allows for the second shot fo be administered between 3 and 6 weeks after the first. You are well within the timeframe and have the peace of mind of having the appointment scheduled. I urge you to go about your day.

    • Anon

      Dude, in my country they are delaying second doses for four months. You’re fine.

    • Anon

      I got mine yesterday and was also give a 4 week out appt. A doc I’m friends with said it’s probably fine, they just don’t have enough data to say it is definitely fine, but common sense says it should be. My state has a wonderful homegrown scheduling system (instead of using the fed one) and we are able to log in and it automatically gives us options for other appts for the second shot starting at 21 days out. I was able to move mine to day 22, to a site 10 minutes from my house instead of 40 (where I got the first) and on a Friday, so if I’m sick the next day I can recover. This is not an inconvenience to the sites because the state is distributing based on the scheduling system practically daily. The national guard is involved. We have an amazing roll out.

      I can see why people would be concerned and want to follow what the vaccine was initially approved and studied at. Also, some people are really sick the next day. Those of us that have jobs where we can’t just move our work a day have to have some control over our vaccine scheduling. We are initially just handed an appointment but then we can go online to reschedule as I described above. There are a lot of legitimate reasons people would have to reschedule out of business or family necessity.

    • Anon

      The longer gap is ok, and I wouldn’t worry about a week. The 12 week delay – as they have in Britain – is problematic, to me, especially if you have cancer, heart disease, diabetes, immune system depression, kidney disease. There is a study about that from England, below, showing risk to cancer patients. But if you’re healthy and less than 60 years old, there is virtually zero risk in a one week delay. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-it-safe-to-delay-a-second-covid-vaccine-dose/
      https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56351084

    • theguvnah

      I could have written this message myself; I managed to get the Walgreens pharmacists on the phone and they confirmed it was fine to keep the 4 week appointment but I’ve still been browsing other options. But reading the responses here has been helpful. Though I still think Walgreens is very much in the wrong.

    • Anon

      Vaccine Hurdle – if you’re still reading, CVS is now offering 2nd shots for those who got their first shots elsewhere.

  3. Divorce advice

    My husband and I separated last spring, and had the formal divorce hearing last month. It’s for the best, without doubt (he was cheating on me, I initiated the divorce), but it is so so hard. I’m 30 and don’t have any friends who have been divorced- instead, they’re all having babies, which makes me feel more alone (as great of friends as they are).

    I’m in therapy already. But would love to get some reassurance that things will get better? That I won’t always feel so sad and alone? I was with my husband for over 10 years, and he was far and away my best friend. Despite the cheating, and despite knowing that the divorce was the right move, I really miss him…

    • Sunshine

      My husband was divorced when he was in his late 20s. He tells me it felt like a massive life failure that he would never recover from. He was embarrassed for failing. His ex-wife was the only person he ever dated and he did not want the divorce. More than anything, he was terrified of being alone, and, post-separation, he was alone. He didn’t want that marriage necessarily (which sounds very eh), but he wanted to be with someone. He has nothing bad to say about his ex-wife.
      Post-separation, he found an excellent therapist who helped him work through a lot of issues. Three years post-separation, he and I met. We married when he was in his early 30s and I was in my mid-30s (first marriage for me). Eight years later, we are very happily married and well suited to each other.
      Without the divorce, he never would have gotten into therapy, would not have made the changes in his life that he did, and would still be in a meh marriage. If you asked him now (even without me in the room!), I think he would tell you the divorce was one of the best things to happen to him because it forced him to make the changes and then subsequently he found a wife for whom he was more suited. But it didn’t feel that way at the time.

      I’m so sorry your life was upended by a divorce from your best friend. I hope that, like my husband, you find happiness on the other side of this very difficult period in your life.

      • Equestrian attorney

        I divorced just two weeks shy of turning 30, after having been with my ex-husband for almost 11 years (we met in my first year of college). I felt a lot of the things you felt – the loss of someone who had been my best friend for my entire adult life, embarassement for the fancy wedding we had thrown a few years back and explaining to my family what had happened without giving too much detail,feeling suddenly “behind” on life, wanting kids and not knowing who I would have them with, and general loss and grief and anger (I ended things after he did a bad thing, but it had been a few years of barely holding on, TBH).
        It was so hard at the time, but I’m a few years out and it was 100% worth it. I started over, got a more demanding and interesting job, bought a condo, leaned into hobbies, spent time with friends, learned to date (something I had literally never done since high school). I am now in a serious relationship someone who is a way better match for the person I am now, but even before I met him, I learned to be happy on my own and take back control of my life, and I’m a stronger person for it. The embarassement was not as bad as I had imagined – even my Catholic grandparents said nice things to me, and most of my friends ended up saying they had been concerned about me and I seemed way happier now. You can do this – sending you hugs and encouragement.

    • CountC

      Not me personally, but two friends in my close friend group divorced and very happily remarried in their mid/late 30s and the one new couple is expecting in May!

      I’m sorry you are going through this – hugs from an internet stranger.

      • Anon

        Same (not them expecting in May, but babies in the second marriages have been involved). Both are married to infinitely better matches for them than their first spouses, which is obvious even to an outsider (me).

        I know this isn’t what you are primarily worried about, but fwiw both also had really spectacularly fun second weddings that were not grounded in all the traditional expectations, very special to them, didn’t involve a ton of people (by choice), and everyone that was involved was super excited to attend :)

    • Anon

      There’s a few pieces to this.

      You are in the worst of it. You spent 1/3d of your life with him. Over time, you’ll adjust to life without him, and you’ll understand why this happened. (Spoiler alert: it’s him, not you.)

      A lot of people find someone in their 30s, especially amongst the high-achieving, educated bracket. I was 36 when I met my husband. My best friend started dating her fiancee at 37. One of my best friends is 45 and is getting serious with a lovely 43 year old divorcee. One of my other friends met his wife when he was 44 and she was a 40 year old divorced mom.

      You’ll find and make friends, and you will continue to be close to the friends you have now.

    • JustmeintheSouth

      I was divorced just after my 30th birthday. No children. Married for 10 years. Therapy was was critical in helping me find my way. I also focused on my career with some good results– that helped with self esteem issues. I had good days and some really bad days in the beginning. I gradually expanded my circle of friends to add some other single women. Did this through other married friends making introductions. Tried to keep busy when not working and after a year or so my life was in a much better place.
      Fast foward 30 years (yes I am an older Rette): I can truly say I am happy with my life- great career, remarried for 20+ years, circle of wonderful friends.
      I do remember the pain of the divorce and lots of tears– be strong, keep moving it will get better.

    • Anonymous

      My husband was divorced before I married him, in his 30s. It was a really really hard time for him – due in part to related depression, his career in academia imploded (he failed to make tenure), and then the economic crash of 2008 made his plan B career impossible. So he lost a lot in a short period of time. But he came out of it, and found his way to a plan C career path that is stable, and we now have a 9 year old son and a pretty nice life. You still have so much life ahead of you – things will get better!

    • The Only GenXer in the Office

      As Senior Attorney always says, there’s no way out but through. I was divorced when I was 30, and it was horrible. All my friends were married and having babies and I was living with my parents, without a job, and my life was over (or so I thought). In reality, it’s the best thing that ever happened to me. I was miserable in my marriage and was trying to stick it out so I didn’t admit that I “failed.” After I divorced him and moved back to my home state, I was able to spend time focusing on me – rebuild friendships, travel, build new hobbies, and kill it at work. I never would have done any of that if I had stayed married to him! And guess what? Ten years later, I am with someone who is a million times better and I have never been so happy. You just have to put one foot in front of the other and get through it. I promise you, it doesn’t seem like it now, but it will get better.

      • Anonymous

        Or as Winston Churchill said “If you are going through hell, keep going”

    • Anonymous

      I was divorced in my 20s, and then remarried in my late 30s for 20+ happy years. My criteria for my second husband was that I wanted a nice guy, and no drama, it had to be easy. (Not that my first husband wasn’t nice, he was, but we were young, immature, passionately in love yet ill-suited. Not happy times.) I did eventually find a nice guy, who is really invested in taking care of me, and accepts me with all my foibles.

      Someone, I wish I could remember who, said something that I still reflect on all these years later: “I miss the person I married, but I don’t miss the person I divorced. And the person I married doesn’t exist any more.” It just rang really true for me, and allowed me to mourn what I lost without trying to go back.

    • Anon

      I was divorced at 33. No big bombshell reasons, we just couldn’t get along and I finally decided that wasn’t how I wanted to spend the rest of my life.

      I met my how husband before my divorce was even final. I was online dating not because I wanted a new husband but because I wanted some distraction/fun. I would have been fine just having a series of boyfriends. But now we’ve been married for 20 years and have kids, and it’s still good.

      When you’re ready, get yourself out there with a spirit of adventure. You have nothing to lose.

    • Anon

      Tayshia on recent Bachelorette series was divorced – she has smart things to say about it, worth a watch

      • Sasha

        +100. OP, she was divorced in her 20s and two of her top guys were divorced in their late 20s/early 30s, respectively. They had some really insightful convos about it. One of the better set of segments on the Bach in recent years

    • Senior Attorney

      It’s just hard. I’ve been through it twice and both times it was absolutely the right thing to do and both times it was just awful. I remember walking down the street and looking around and thinking “a lot of these people are divorced — how is it even possible they’re even upright and walking?”

      As somebody already said, the only way out is through. And I promise things will get better. My life now is so great I sometimes feel like I have to pinch myself to make sure it’s real! Hugs to you!!

      Oh, and when I was in the worst of it, I would tell myself “this time next year things will be much better,” and I was right. And if you tell yourself that, you will be right, too!

    • Anon

      I was unhappily married by my late 20s and decided to stick it out and have a kid because I really wanted one. So of course I ended up divorced with a kid. I adore my kid and she’s absolute perfection, but co-parenting with my ex sucks a lot of the time. We are officially amicable but far from friends, and he likes to pick fights over small inconsequential things and I’m always Being The Bigger Person which can get exhausting after a while. It’s a bit over 3 years since I then, and I now have a lovely boyfriend who is moving in with me soon. My kid adores boyfriend and he’s amazing with her. I realize that had I divorced my ex earlier, I would have had an opportunity to share a kid with someone full time, which would have been amazing. I don’t actually regret it because I adore this specific kid that I have… but had I divorced earlier I would not have known that and would have been quite happy. I grew and learned a lot about myself since my divorce and am enormously happier now.

    • Ses

      Coming in late here, but I was you a few years ago. Same length of relationship, same type of best-friend thing, missing him even though he was so dishonest and ruined everything.
      It gets better.
      After a few months I was functioning, and a few months after that I was, for the first time in a really really long time, happy. I hadn’t even realized how unhappy I had been. Today, I’m grateful he exploded our relationship, because I’m remarried and have such a better life.
      Also, you may think everyone around you is “ahead” or doing things better, but in reality, a lot of them are either on second/third marriages (a lot of us don’t advertise that) or are going to be in your shoes someday, too. And that’s okay – dying with the person you married as a 20-something isn’t the goal of life.
      Best wishes to you. Accept it when people want to take you out for a drink or hang out – some of my best friendships came out of that period of my life.

    • Anon

      Every single wedding that I went to in my 20s ended in divorce, except one. It is not a failure. I know it’s lonely now but I can speak from experience that not getting divorced when the marriage has gone/will go bad is worse than being alone.

    • Anonymous

      Late to the party here but I’ll add that not only am I divorced, I’m an academic who researches divorce. The research indicates that people settle out in a new normal after two years on average. That was exactly my experience. A year afterward was still hard. I had been with my spouse for 17 years — divorced at 40. Two years after I felt like I was really in a better place. I had to do a lot of work but it was worth it. Now my career is better, I’m in a better relationship, etc. As others have said the only way out is through. Hang in there! Hugs from an internet stranger.

    • Lorelai Gilmore

      I know a bunch of people who married in their 20s and divorced before too long and in all cases (literally, all) they are so much happier. Life is long and can be hard. It is worse and harder if you are married to someone who you cannot trust. And honestly, I would be on my knees thanking the heavens that I found out and got divorced before kids come into the picture — as a mom, I think there would be nothing worse than coparenting with someone who is untrustworthy. You have the freedom to build your life however you want it. You’re liberated! You have no ties to him, no custody battles. In a few years, he’ll be a mostly nice memory of that guy you used to be with when you were young. Be gentle to yourself, but find ways to celebrate.

    • Anonymous

      You are doing the right thing. In 5 years some of those friends will be divorced with young children and you will be with a wonderful man who loves and respects you. You deserve it. It takes strength to do the right thing. Be proud of yourself.

  4. Confuzzled Defense

    my colleague is getting billed out at higher rates than me (partner/senior vs. me at regular associate). Facts are:
    He’s been licensed 1.5 years longer
    I’ve been with firm 1 yr longer.
    Small firm, only a couple of partners.
    We do the exact same work and get paid around the same salary (we both think we’re underpaid, small firm life, hah ha)
    He had no idea (we’re friends so I told him)

    can a firm partner or in-house insurance person explain what might be going on here?
    Is it about my work? his work? Should I be advocating for myself in a different way?

    • Equestrian attorney

      Our rates are set by year, so at my firm it would be normal that he gets billed at a higher rate. We also have variable rates depending on the size and nature of the file (and realistically, how much the client is willing to pay). If you are paid the same salary, it sounds as though he is the one who is underpaid? You might both be, but assuming he brings in more money to the firm because of the higher rate, that does not sound fair. I`m not sure you can advocate for a higher rate unless there is a kind of file that brings in a higher rate and you are excluded from those, in which case I would express a strong interest in them.

    • Anon

      If it is a small firm, can you not have a discussion? And keep it not-about-you. Keep it: can you make sure that there isn’t a mistake in these rates? I want to make sure that the clients aren’t confused and don’t push back to lower John’s rate in light of it being higher than a partner (or should we increase yours?). Some computer systems are bad systems (maybe nobody bumped up your # b/c pandemic) and some clients are weird about rates. If it is just $10, I wouldn’t care. But we have some clients who recognize rates are a bit of a scam and denied parnter rate increases while allowing associates to move-up lock-step but in a weird way that causes lots of distortions (so new people bill higher than old people, but is very client-specific).

    • Anonymous

      What is confusing to you? Law is still very much a hierarchy. He’s 1.5 years ahead of you so his billing rate is higher. You shouldn’t do anything.

      • Cat

        I agree with this but am also curious about how far out from graduation you are. If you’re 4-5 years out of course the person with 1.5 years more experience is billed higher. If you’re like 10+ years out… especially bc you are at a small firm… different convo.

        • Confuzzled Defense

          we’re both 7-8 yrs out of school, but we’ve both spent time practicing in multiple states, so we’re not perfect, consecutive yrs.

          In any event, at first discovery I felt annoyed because we literally handle the exact same work, exact same clients & cases (to 9:24anon) but in reading your replies, I understand that it might just be client rules and our partners capitalizing on him hitting a certain year, thus, time to up his client rates.

          Thanks to everyone for the information! It’s weird being a mid-level associate and moving up in the practice world, so I appreciate the internet-stranger-mentorship. This is all the stuff you don’t learn in law school and can be tough navigating as a woman.

          to 9:22anon, it’s a small firm in that my colleague and I chat together, but because we’re still cogs in the machine our partners keep info like this close to the vest. asking questions doesn’t always get answers.

    • Anon

      The simple answer is that partner rates are higher than associate rates and this is usually in the client engagement contract, so he is likely bringing in more money into the firm than you for his work due billing at a higher rate.

    • Anon

      At my firm, they just have a billing rate chart by license year with an A-rate and a B-rate. So our rates go up every year that we’re out (and I guess cap out at some point).

    • anon

      I am an associate at a small firm, and I had to advocate for a rate increase. My facts were different–a male colleague with less experience had a higher billing rate because he lateralled from a firm with overall higher rates and kept his rate the same. But our small law firm is not that structured, and my boss hadn’t really thought about raising my rate so we were even–it was just business as usual. When I found out, like a year later (ugh), I raised the issue with my boss, and my boss readily agreed to raise my rate $25 mid-year, and another $25 in December so I was even with my colleague. I had to remind him again in December, but again, he readily agreed. I think is an aspect of small firm life–you may have to ask questions and advocate for yourself.

      Your colleague’s 1.5 years of experience may or may not be the reason he’s billed at a higher rate. Do your rates get increased regularly? Ask whether there’s an automatic increase in rates at certain intervals. If so, remind them when you hit that interval.

    • Anon

      Girl, you are looking at this all wrong. Use your lower rate to bring in business and make partner (and yes, partner rates are higher than associate rates).

    • Anon

      There are a lot of factors. Here is my case: I’m a 6th-year associate at a 30-attorney firm, and I work in a branch office. I do transactional work. The only attorney in the firm with a lower “standard” rate than me is the 1st-year associate in my office who also does transactional work. Transactional attorneys in our main office and other branch offices bill higher than me starting around their second and third years. But, this is due to the demographics and typical rates in the areas where our offices are located. The first year litigation attorneys start around my current rate. We increase every year, and we have input into our own rates, with assistance from our mentor shareholder and approval by the shareholders in our practice groups. On certain matters, I do get billed out higher. On my own matters, I have the authority to adjust the rate of the other associates and billing staff who work on my matters, so I will sometimes adjust other associates down a bit depending on the matter and office location. I can also cut anyone’s time on my files, including shareholders. I can see in my billing software who is cutting my time and where. So, when I have questions, I ask the billing shareholder in a matter. I do so in a way that I am asking so that I can improve and be more efficient. I’ve always gotten positive feedback on this approach from the shareholders.

      Do you have any authority to adjust rates on your own matters or adjust your bills in the ways that I described? Or are your purely talking about partner’s client files?

    • Anonymous

      I have the opposite. I am billed out at only $10 less than other associates but paid nearly half. I’m job hunting now, because it’s clear they won’t give me a raise. They shut down me even hinting at the idea. But this was an entry level patent prosecution job and I had no leverage on pay when hired, I needed experience more. Now I’m over 18 months in and have enough evidence I can do the job to persuade somewhere to hire me for a fair rate now.

  5. Anonymous

    I think my husband had at least an emotional affair. For the past month, he has been an entirely different person- it a great way. We were going through a pretty rough patch heading into COVID (after 5 rough years of nonstop infants in the house), and then we were locked down with our 3 kids for months on end. It got pretty awful around here. Since around Christmas though, DH has been really trying. Things have improved all around and I am really happy.

    It’s like, so somewhat out of the blue and he’s trying *so hard* that it makes me think something happened. If it did and I found out, I’m not sure I could get over it. I would much, much prefer to keep moving things forward because I am really happy. Is it wrong to just live in what might be blissful ignorance? It’s possible he just did a lot of soul searching, and I would hate to create drama where there is none. I’ve known him for almost 18 years by now- and the total change in behavior, while wonderful and welcome, is pretty out of the blue. He mentioned at one point feeling like he’s going though a midlife crisis a little early- maybe this is a byproduct of that?

    • anon

      If your husband becoming a better partner makes you think he’s having an emotional affair rather than that he loves you and is really trying to make your marriage work, gently, I think there is more going on here than you’ve shared.

      • Anon

        Yeah jumping to the worst possible conclusion is an odd reaction to an improved home situation

        • Anon

          My ex-BIL was always struggling to pass his fitness tests at work (think: firefighter, etc. where that is a legit job thing). Then one day, he had a sudden interest in fitness. Exercised not just before a test. Joined WW online. Lost a ton of weight.

          He is now married to the woman he was having an affair with.

          Sudden changes with a spouse are often a top-off if it just seems random and out of nowhere (like not just after Uncle Rico’s heart attack).

          • Anon

            I feel like these are classic affair moves though.

            I don’t know if I think OP’s situation (being all of a sudden more invested in the relationship) is quite as classic of an affair move. To someone’s point below, I suppose it can be in an odd way, but maybe not the most common reason.

          • Anon

            Wait, he lost the weight for the affair partner or because he was more attractive (to himself or others) after he lost the weight, he found an affair partner?

    • Anonymous

      You have literally no evidence at all he’s had an affair! Your post is bizarre. Please stop inventing this fantasy.

    • anon

      I’ve done something like this before, although I’m early 30s. a lot of it for me was realizing that I really hadn’t been that kind to my spouse and I needed to invest more in the relationship. Like, I had let myself contribute to making our relationship worse, and he’s a wonderful person and spouse and we both deserved better and I was just ready to make it happen.

      I don’t have any personal experience here, but I think if he were having an emotional affair the more likely response would be to be more distant from you.

      • Anonymous

        I think sometimes people are extra nice to their partners after an affair. I just kissed someone else ome time and found myself being extra kind to my boyfriend after. In my case it was because that little indiscretion led me.down a path of reflection that made me realize how.much i like my boyfriend over others. But I am not trying to speculate on the OP’s specific situation here. It is far from clear what happened.

    • Anonymous

      Something might have happened but it wasn’t necessarily an emotional affair.

      For my DH, we had done couples counselling but I wasn’t really seeing the effort. Then his close work friend broke up with her partner of like 15 years without even doing counselling even though he wanted to try. They had a house and kids together and her partner was DH’s running buddy so it was super awkward for him because he was friends with both. It was definitely a ‘oh shit, sometimes women don’t just keep trying for years on end and they do decide to pull the plug’ kind of moment. He straight up asked me if I had thought about leaving him a few times and I saw a lot more effort at counselling after his ‘aha’ moment.

      • Anon.

        I tend to agree with you. It happened to friends of ours in the last year, and I made both of us pause for a second and consider the reality that no marriage is guaranteed to last.

        My husband and I sometimes go through rough patches (we will be together 20 years this fall, I’m almost 40, yikes!). The pandemic for us had two opposite effects on our marriage: On the one hand, we confirmed that we are an awesome team in any type of crisis, and we’re on the same page when it comes to keeping our family safe and prioritizing this over everything else. On the other hand, we spend a lot more time together WFH, so daily quarrels about household things, childcare schedules etc are definitely happening more often.

        I sought counseling at the end of last year for my own mental and stress issues, and I am pretty sure my husband saw an improvement in my temper, my ability to listen and show affection. These were areas where I wasn’t happy with myself and, with the therapist, found new ways to manage my own feelings, which in turn improved my relationship with my husband.

        If he told me he suspected my behavior was due to an emotional affair, I would probably think he is nuts, and I maybe even conclude that he is having an affair himself, TBH!

      • anon

        Yeah, I agree with this. I have a friend going through a divorce and I definitely made a point to be nicer to my husband starting after I heard. It was a reminder that my marriage is precious and fragile (in the manner that all human relationships and feelings are fragile, not in any absolute sense) and I should take care of it.

    • Anon

      Wait, what? You said he’s been trying, why does that mean he’s having an affair?

    • Anon

      I’m sorry if this is harsh, but I would not want to be married to you. This is literally damned if you do, damned if you don’t. If my husband accused me of having an affair when I tried to make our marriage work, I would file divorce papers.

    • anon a mouse

      Clearly, something happened that made him want to invest more in the relationship. It may not be an emotional affair, though. A dear friend had confided in me during her roughest patch and I basically said, look, you love your husband and he does X, Y and Z, which is above and beyond what you are likely to find elsewhere. Is that really worth throwing away because of this minor quarrel? She has said that it snapped her straight and she doubled down on the marriage. Maybe your husband had something similar that radically altered his perspective? Don’t go looking for trouble.

    • Anon

      I have no idea but I’m with you in the intuition. Don’t dismiss it just because people here think it’s dumb.

      • Anonymous

        I replied earlier but I don’t get the sense that most people are thinking her intuition is ‘dumb’ but that the ‘something’ might not be an affair unless there is more going on than OP described.

        • Anon

          I’m guessing it’s an intuition that’s subconscious and hard to even articulate because she’s known her husband long enough and well enough so I think she should not dismiss her intuition. Everybody else who doesn’t know OP or her husband wants to jump down her throat because obviously it’s not rationally enough evidence to suggest an affair, but that’s really the opposite of what intuition is.

    • Anon

      You’re getting dragged, but your gut feelings are valid. Something has changed.

      My dad did this. He was a generally cold, arrogant, self-absorbed person who suddenly become doting and affectionate to my mom after decades of being an a$$.

      Turns out he had received a come-to-jesus lecture from his GP, and started taking bipolar meds. He didn’t want Mom to know about the diagnosis or the “weakness” of taking meds for mental health reasons.

      • anon

        No one is saying nothing has changed. Your own post makes the point that there are reasons other than “affair” that could trigger said change.

        • Anon

          Lambasting her for thinking “affair” is happening, and it’s nonsense. It could be an affair, it could be something else.

          • Anonymous

            I don’t think like 2 out of 20 responses taking that tone is someone getting ‘dragged’. Vast majority of posters said basically what Anon 11:36 said – trust your intuition that something happened, maybe affair or maybe this other thing.

    • Anon

      My ex was like this shortly before we got divorced. I don’t think he had an emotional affair. I think he realized that he was an awful person and that I was on the verge of leaving him. Had he realized this and changed his ways a year or two earlier, this might have helped, but at that point I was just waiting for our kid to be out of the super-hard-toddler stage to make the logistics of the divorce easier. I had completely given up on the marriage and I think once he realized that I wasn’t just going to stick around forever no matter what he did, he reconsidered.

      But I think a come-to-J moment with someone or something is likely — an affair is not the most likely version of that. Could a friend, or relative have said something to him? Did something happen between you guys a while before the change?

    • Anon

      Why not just ask him what prompted the change in his attitude? He could lie of course.

      My dad suddenly started treating my mom really well for a period and even got her jewelry without her asking for it, which was unlike him. My mom told me she believed he was having an affair based on various small things she noticed (ie. catching odd messages on his phone, getting weird silent phone calls from a woman). I also by accident discovered a jewelry commercial addressed to a woman at their address, which my dad immediately snatched out of my hand. My dad passed away shortly after this due to natural causes, and repeatedly denied it. Who was right is a mystery we will never know, but my mom had a similar reaction as you when she was going through it.

    • Anonymous

      OP here. I guess what I’m saying is…is it silly of me that I don’t really want to know why? If it was some come to Jesus moment, great! If it was an affair that’s over- well, if I find out I’ll be crushed and I’m happy now. Is it foolish to just appreciate it?

      • Lorelai Gilmore

        It’s not foolish to just appreciate it. I think you can even verbally appreciate – you can say things like, “It’s been so much fun to spend time with you this spring,” or “I really appreciate all the work you’ve been picking up around the house,” or whatever is appropriate. I am a big believer in verbally expressing appreciation and gratitude in family systems.

  6. Office Chair

    Does anyone have the Herman Miller Aeron and is it worth it? It’s looking more like I’ll be continuing to work from home permanently and my cheap desk chair isn’t cutting it. There is nowhere to try it out locally.

    • Anon

      I love mine because it’s one of the few chairs that specifically comes in a small size. I’m 5’3″ with narrow shoulders and it’s the only chair I’ve ever sat in that seems like it was designed for someone my size. With the fully adjustable arms, I can actually use the arm rests, which I’ve never been able to do in a “normal” size chair. I have no complaints about the rest of the chair, but the sizing is what makes it really special to me. There may be some other companies doing that now, but when I was looking 7-8 years ago, it was the only one that fit.

      • Anon

        Similar issues (and I feel like my height is in my legs, so when I sit, I am so low that my arms have to reach up to a desk, which is uncomfortable). What do you do with your desk? I feel like I need something like a hairdresser’s chair which I can elevate me up to desk level. My desk at work raises, but doesn’t lower, so it’s almost like I need a platform for the chair.

        • Anon

          Poster above and I have this same issue- my desk at work doesn’t adjust and is 4-6″ too tall. I had to get a footrest and give up on my feet touching the floor or else I just destroyed my neck and shoulders. It’s not ideal, since I often find myself not using the footrest and just tucking my feet up onto the chair base or sitting with one leg under me, but it’s definitely better than having to hold my arms up. It’s sort of infuriating that most office furniture just isn’t designed to fit a large number of women (the average woman is 5’4″, so only an inch taller than me).

          • Anon

            I’m glad it’s not just me. I raise my seat so it’s probably 1/3 of the way to standing, but otherwise, I feel like a kid who needs a booster seat.

            [Elena Kagan IIRC is not tall — I am wondering what she does for when she is lined up with everyone else on the bench. I saw the Justice Rehnquist once and OMG he was quite tall. If he fit at the bench, how does everyone else fare?]

          • Sutemi

            Can you get a keyboard tray that goes under the desk? I found that improved my ergonomics a ton compared to adjusting the chair and getting a footrest.

      • Tea/Coffee

        This!
        I actually have the size A, for short people.
        Last spring i loaded it i to my car (with mgrs blessing) along with my monitors. Have no intention of ever bringing it back to the office

      • Anonymous

        Same. I am 5’6” with a small frame and very short legs. The seats on most chairs are too deep, meaning that either my circulation gets cut off at the back of my knees or I can’t sit against the back of the chair. When our office bought Aerona, I had to argue pretty strenuously to get our facilities manager to assign me a small-sized chair. I sure hope it’s still there when I go back to the office.

    • Anon

      I personally like the Embody better than the Aeron. I am lucky enough to leave near HM and they have an outlet warehouse store with a bunch of gently used versions in stock on any given day (still pricey, but far less than new ones).

      Have you checked used office furniture stores in your area to see if they have any in stock that you can sit in and try out?

    • BB

      I got the Mirra chair after comparing the two. But I think the two are very similar after looking at all the specs and it came down to the fact that I wanted a cool color (Mirra comes in turquoise). I was using a cheaper Herman Miller chair and it’s made a MASSIVE difference. If you can afford it, get all the adjustable add ons and there’s basically no way it won’t fit you.

    • Anon

      I like the Aeron but prefer the Steelcase Leap2. I have narrow shoulders and mine lets me adjust the armrests so that they are set closer together. Of course, I can also just the height. Taken together, the adjustments mean that I rest my arms on the armrests while my shoulders and neck are in a natural position. This has helped my shoulder, back and neck pain enormously.

    • anne-on

      I have a Sayl with adjustable arms, and my husband has a Aeron. I think it really depends on your size/shape. He feels like my chair is Lilliputian and I think his is too big, so it really depends on your size. Fwiw, I am slightly over 5’4, and my husband is 5’11 so I can see going for the Aeron if you have longer legs or are over 5’6.

    • Ses

      I have the HM Celle and really like it. I got it second-hand from a refurb office store, so it was almost half-price, so I’d recommend trying that route. Especially with businesses going remote, they may be selling nice chairs.
      The Celle is very adjustable. I’m tall, so I like being able to move the seat back and armrests for better fit.

  7. To yesterday's "Anon for This" re husband

    I wanted to reach out to Anon for This from yesterday’s Coffee Break who posted about her husband and his potentially abusive conduct in the past and his present-day interrogations of her. I hope you repost today to get more comments, but if nothing else, I wanted to drop the URL for the National Domestic Violence hotline, which is https://www.thehotline.org, and their telephone hotline, which is 1-800-799-7233 (1-800-799-SAFE). If you’re not in the United States, I expect there are similar resources in your country. I know some posters recommended therapy for you, which is solid advice, but in case more is required (or you just want to check out some of the Hotline’s materials about control and power)…I wanted you to have the info. I’ll be thinking about you.

    • Anon for This

      Thank you for this. I knew I probably wouldn’t get much response yesterday since it was so late, but I was just soooooo tired yesterday of trying to be his emotional support all of the time. Here is a repost from yesterday.

      I am realizing that I cannot fill all of the emotional needs of my husband. He constantly needs reassurance and I feel like I just can’t give it ALL the time. Things have not been the best between us and I am now realizing that lots of things he has done in the past could be considered abusive. Now it seems every time I do anything he has to know all about it and gets upset if I don’t constantly say he is doing a good job, I appreciate him, etc. He doesn’t really have any hobbies and I realize with COVID that is a bit difficult anyway, but I am just almost at the end of my wits. It almost reminds me of high school girl drama where it’s always what were you doing and who did you talk to and why did you do that? Why did you say that? Not sure this even makes much sense, but I am so tired right now.

      Thank you for any thoughts.

      • Anonymous

        I’m so sorry you are struggling and I hope you have a trusted friend who can support you. Do not go to therapy with him. Do contact a divorce lawyer and start making plans to safely leave.

        • Senior Attorney

          Second “do not go to therapy with him.” There is nothing worse than couples counseling with an emotional abuser (ask me how I know). And from your description that is what he is.

      • anonshmanon

        Just want to say that what you said makes sense and that you are not being unreasonable. Anyone would get exhausted when having to provide what you are providing for a spouse. It doesn’t sound like a tenable situation to me.

      • Lorelai Gilmore

        He’s sucking you into a codependent loop. Set boundaries and if he can’t deal with the boundaries, get out.

  8. H13

    Any recs for a drugstore vitamin c product? Any new or interesting (drugstore) daily moisturizers to try?

    • AnonInfinity

      I’m not sure if this counts as drugstore because you do have to order online, but I love the Maelove Glow Maker serum. It’s in the $25 range. I used Skinceuticals for a long time but switched to Maelove in the fall and it has worked just as well for me. As for moisturizers, I’m super boring and just use Cerave. It’s not new, but one of my best friends recently got on the LaRoche Posay train and is trying to get me to join him.

    • pugsnbourbon

      I’ve been using the Revolution Skincare 12.5% vitamin C serum and I really like it! It’s been about a month and I think my skin looks a bit brighter.

    • anon

      Haven’t tried it myself but I’ve heard good things about the Naturium line at Target. They have two vitamin C serums with great reviews.

    • Anon

      The Vichy ampoules are supposedly the best vitamin C at the drugstore. They are the sister company of Skin Ceuticals, who make the gold standard.

  9. Anon

    Associate at firm here. I have not received any work despite asking repeatedly in the last few months. There are associates who are much more busy than me. Is this the firm sending me a message that I will get the axe soon? Should I look for another job now?

    • Cat

      If you have an assigned mentor or someone you get along well with, you could ask them – is it just that a few deals (already staffed) are running “hot” or is there a bigger picture problem.

      But a very lopsided workload is not a great sign. I’m sorry.

      • Equestrian attorney

        Yeah, you need to make sure you are proactive about asking for work, and I agree about speaking to your mentor, but if you really are not getting any work over an extended period of time, you may need a back-up plan. Signed, I was phased out of my first firm through no fault of my own (they did not have enough of the work they had hired me to do once a big client left) and ended up at a better, more prestigious firm through a lateral move. You don`t want to jump ship too soon, but it`s always better if you can make the first move. I`m sorry you are dealing with this.

    • smol law

      this happened to me at a very small law firm (only one partner). I asked him repeatedly over 6 months and worked so little while the other 3 guys were busy all the time. got “laid off” as the only woman attorney after 10 months.

      I’m just an anecdote: but I’d say start looking for a new job who appreciates your talent.

    • Anon

      Has anyone actually found something better though? This is my second law firm, and I was pushed out of a biglaw firm before. I am a senior associate now. For some reason, I feel paralyzed. I can’t explain it, but I don’t want to be a lawyer anymore. I just don’t want to deal with the the politics and the pettiness anymore. I don’t think I’m cut out to be a lawyer. But I also don’t know what to do next. I guess I’m mildly depressed that I’m probably getting pushed out again.

      • Equestrian attorney

        My second firm is better than my first, for sure. The people are nicer and the work is more interesting (not to mention the better pay and benefits). It’s still a law firm, with the client pressures, billable hours and politics that come with it. It’s possible you don’t want to be a lawyer anymore, and that’s ok! Lots of people move on after paying their dues for a few years. You could go in-house, go into project management, HR, lobbying, media, policy, or do what my former colleague did and open a cupcake shop… the law opens a lot of doors!

      • Anon

        I also got pushed out for the second time recently and am feeling the same way. I’m so exhausted, I don’t want to deal with firm politics anymore or build up my reputation anymore. I have worked at a few firms and I definitely think there are good firms and bad firms. Unfortunately the latter is more common in my experience.

      • Anon

        Can I just say I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I left a firm (by my own choice) last year, and moved to another firm, while my new firm is better in many ways, it still isn’t a good fit for me for a lot of other reasons. I feel so depressed and defeated by this. And one thing I’ve been wrestling with for the past couple of months is whether I even want to be a lawyer at all anymore. I recently met with a career coach (who is a lawyer, so she gets it) and we’re working on a plan for me to even figure out what my options are and how to get there. Just know you aren’t alone in not wanting to be a lawyer anymore, there are other options, and there are people out there who can help you figure that out – maybe it’s an option for you to explore while you still have a job so that you aren’t just jumping into another firm without considering what *you* really want and what will make you happy. Good luck!

    • Anonymous

      Start looking for something else. It’s ok if you don’t like being at a firm, there are lots of other things you can do.

  10. Happy news

    Please indulge my excitement and a liiiiitle bragging, I just got an akris blazer second hand for $20! I am so thrilled, I have never owned something so nice before.

    • Anon

      Yay! But you will want more. Then you will become an e-bay and poshmark stalker. It is some nice stuff. Like scary nice fabrics. I have a cashmere jacket from a suit I got and I often just caress the fabric. The skirt no longer fits, but it is one of the few things that sparks joy b/c it is so nice and well-made. I donated a ton, but not my Akris. I have an Akris Punto jacket that is divine.

      • Anon

        Snort. I have a Max Mara wool dress that I have, ahem, sized out of, but sometimes I go in my closet and just touch the fabric and admire the seams.

    • Anon

      My daughter found a brand-new-with-tags Akris leather jacket with a retail of $300 at a consignment store a few years ago. $25. Still astonishing.

  11. The Original ...

    In case you need it, here are 2 reminders:

    1. You are EPIC. You are surviving a pandemic right now. Of course you may feel “off” or your work may not be at the level it was when you were, ya know, not experiencing a worldwide crisis. Stop blaming yourself or judging yourself for however you are coping. You deserve to be surrounded with support and kindness and praise and that begins with the voice inside your own mind.

    2. Don’t get so bogged down by life that you forget to reach out. If you take your phone with you to pee, you have the time to send a text of love or to text a kind thought to someone who matters to you. Give yourself the gift of reaching out to a person you adore and give them the gift of receiving your love. It’s free, it takes no time, and it’s the best present to send and to receive.

    Sending you all some major love!

  12. anon

    For those of you who are relatively senior in your organization, what would you think are “valid” reasons for people wanting to be promoted on a super fast track? I am up for a promotion this cycle, and a lot of our senior leadership are excited about it, they think I’m ready etc (it’s a committee decision here), but I’m 6 months to a year early in terms of when I’d be expected to actually make the promotion compared to the rest of my class. so people will say I’m ready and they’re excited but also that “oh well another 6 months is totally normal so no need to be in a hurry.” I am, for a lot of reasons, not least of which is being excited about the work that I’ll get to do and the autonomy I’ll have in driving it in that role. But I’m also just impatient. No one has really asked why at this point, but I think they probably have a sense and should that conversation ever come up I’m wondering what would be a “valid” reason.

    • Anonymous

      This comment was exhausting. I think ant to promote people when a) they’re already performing at a higher level and makes sense and/or b) when I know I need to in order to be competitive with the marketplace.

    • Anon

      I’d like to see someone weather a storm, but I think we are having that now. Anyone can be a rock star when times are good and there is plenty of work. But when the work goes away or clients go under, who is good then?

    • Anon

      Law firm promoting you to partner? You have a portable book of business, great client relationships, and they want to keep you because losing you would be detrimental to their business. Word on the street is that other firms are looking to poach you.

    • Anonymous

      I give project autonomy when I trust not only in the quality of the work but also believe it can be done by someone well-grounded and self-aware enough that they can maneuver the softer skill side as well. Ahem.

    • anonshmanon

      It doesn’t matter why you want it. It matters whether I think that you can do the job, whether there is work/room in the org for someone more senior, whether it makes sense business wise. You need to convince them that you are their best choice to fill that position. Reflecting on why you think this is the right move for yourself might help you to hone your message, but your message needs to be all about why you are their best choice for the position.
      Like, I have trouble coming up with personal motivation reasons that would sway one way or the other. You’re in it for the bigger paycheck? You want to prove your parents wrong by excelling in the career that they warned you about? I don’t mind as long as you do good work. Maybe if I found out that you are a power hungry tyrant, that would stop me from promoting you out of principle.

  13. EM84

    Just got the news I will get Pfizer vaccine this Sunday! I cannot even express how insanely happy I am. This means I will be able to see my family without 2 weeks quarantine and multiple tests on return (we live in different countries).

  14. Interview attire advice needed

    Is wearing a bright pink blazer in a conservative fabric and cut to an interview in a casual to business casual office acceptable? Would be pairing it with black pants, black low heel pumps and a white blouse/shirt-that-must-not-be-named

    I have an in person interview for a position I’m really excited about next week but my previous workplaces have all been casual so my wardrobe hasn’t got that much interview appropriate items in it. In store visits are not really an option right now and shipping is slow where I am

      • EM84

        I am in pharmaceuticals/ marketing, regularly run recruitment or second chair with other teams as well.

    • Anon

      I am all about flare in normal work life, but even I wouldn’t for this. You just NEVER know what old school belief about interview attire the interviewer has. Plus, the fact that you are asking shows you are mildly worrying about it, and you just don’t need that feeling during an interview.

      A lot of stores have order/pick up options?

      Good luck!

    • No Problem

      I work in a fairly casual office and would expect someone in a full suit if they’re coming for an interview. No one here wears a suit to work but we do wear suits to client meetings and for formal presentations. I would make exceptions for someone who is very junior (maybe can’t afford to buy a suit yet) or someone obviously pregnant. It wouldn’t necessarily be a deal breaker if the person is otherwise qualified, but unless you’re talking about an industry where no one ever wears suits, I would be surprised by a bright pink blazer. If there is any way to acquire even a less bright blazer (maybe borrow from a friend?), please try!

      • Kitten

        +1, same. If this is a law firm, I’d definitely wear a suit in a normal color. I also don’t think bright pink looks good with black but that’s just a personal opinion.

    • No Face

      What industry is it in? I’m in a conservative industry (law). Even for business casual workplaces, we still suit up for interviews. If you are in a conservative field, wear a full suit. Assuming you are not in a conservative field, keep the entire outfit, but change the blazer to a less-bright color. I recommend going to a thrift store near a wealthy area.

    • Anon

      Reading the replies are sad… I just bought a pale pink Hobbs jacket to wear with a cream shell and a black skirt if/when I interview. Apparently that is not going to fly.

      • Anon

        I’m one of the no’s to the bright pink, and I think there is difference between bright pink and pale pink (which might be okay), if I’m picturing this all correctly. That being said, I would still think there are some specific industries/interview situations where you’d want to go more streamlined, but not all.

      • Anon

        My office (very conservative finance) would expect a mid-level applicant to show up in a conservative color full suit for the initial interview, then is far more open-minded for follow-up interviews. Junior applicants get a lot of grace during interviews as long as they make an attempt at professional attire, and senior applicants might be able to get away with yoga pants as long as their water bottle is professional.

      • AZCPA

        It depends so much on your industry and level of seniority. If you are an attorney, no it probably won’t do the job. But at my last several companies (tech, but I’m finance so more conservative) it would be perfect, assuming you aren’t fresh out of school.

  15. Anon

    I feel like maybe it is time to explore St. John, as I no longer want stuff, but want to look polished but comfy. And I’m just not an Eileen Fisher person — I feel like it just is too floaty / ashram-adjacent / west coast for me. I don’t want to look like a DC matron from the 1980s though. Does anyone shop there? I’d just like to add some pieces (and then maybe stalk consignment stores / poshmark / etc.) if it works. A friend who is a newscaster swears by them (lives by an outlet though) as comfy and always presentable. She is tall and hour-glassy. I am 5-4 and starting to more shaped like a Tic-Tac (no waist, no chest).

    • Anonymous

      I have two thoughts. One: simply go try it on! It’s the only way to know if you like it. Two: people often post here about trying to solve the problem of too much stuff by suddenly and dramatically buying a lot more stuff and I always find it ridiculous. The solution to too much shopping is not more shopping. The solution to too much stuff is not more stuff. Figure out what you own now that fits, is not damaged, and that you will wear. Get rid of everything else. Wear that stuff. If you find that you’re often wishing you had Additional Article of Clothing, and you’re still obsessed with St. John, go purchase that article of clothing.

      • Anon

        I get that, but I need to shop anyway due to a size change (increase, so not like I could take the old things in) that is likely permanent. :( So the old stuff found a home and the closet is full of well-used gym attire (also new back in Early Pandemic). Return to the office is looming (and I am finally eligible for a shot). I am in a casual office (so could wear a jacket with jeans, or the pants with a jeans jacket), but travel for work (perhaps again) to see clients who still wear suits.

        I had hoped a bit that WFH would lead to all of the workouts, but it just made my job eat all of my time (WFH with kids home means that 8 hours of work takes 12+ hours to do, plus the endless client alerts due to law changes, etc.). Just did another client alert, so yay, but I’d have loved to just go for a walk in all that time now that the weather is Not Awful.

        • Anonymous

          I mean by all means go buy a full St. John wardrobe if you want! You don’t need my permission. It’s just very expensive and a trifle elderly to me, so I’d start with one or two pieces.

      • Anon

        Amen, but people always have a million reasons why they actually do need to buy more things to have fewer things. The whole exercise is just an excuse to buy more. Which I understand! Buying new clothes is fun and makes those serotonin receptors happy.

        • Anon

          Sometimes? I happily wore the same outfits ad nauseum when I was pregnant, because I loved every piece of clothing, it flattered me as much as a pregnant woman’s body can be flattered, and everything fit well.

          My current goal is to make my postpartum wardrobe similar. There’s a lot of “oh, this still fits but this doesn’t, so I need X to go with Y,” but Y does not actually fit all that well, is five years old anyway, and X doesn’t exactly go with it. Or I don’t much like X, bought it on sale during my second trimester, and really hate buying something ELSE to wear with it. I wish I had started over from scratch.

    • Anon

      I wear St John blazers almost exclusively because they are so comfortable. Here is my tip – don’t wear full on outfits. I focus on the blazers and then wear other brands underneath. I love them and they look so good – 5’5″ and straight shaped.

      • Anonymous

        Totally agree with this, I do the same except with Misook blazers (which you can find for much less than retail on Poshmark and the like).

    • Anonymous

      There is a lot of entry level St John on the outlet sites. That might be a good way to find your size. The sizing is generous, so try your usual size and a size down. And just don’t buy anything that looks like a band jacket or in a weird lunch pastel and you should be fine. I buy silk tops from other less expensive vendors and just focus on their core pieces like skirts and jackets.

  16. Anon

    Talk to me about inguinal hernias. CT scan was yesterday, just got a call and word that a surgery referral has been initiated. How is the recovery? Time needed? Time to back to normal? This was not on my list for today (said for that past year, but this is really unexpected).

    • No Problem

      My brother had one back when he was in college. He had outpatient surgery and then spent a couple days on the couch. I’m sure he had restrictions on what he was allowed to lift or do exercise-wise for a week or a couple weeks. Once he recovered, he certainly felt a lot better than before the surgery! Your recovery time will probably depend on your age and overall health and fitness and your surgeon will be able to give you a better estimate, but it’s probably not going to be more than a couple days of being laid up.

    • edj3

      I had an incisional hernia from the six major abdominal surgeries before the one to fix the hernia. Mine was laparoscopic and if the surgeon hadn’t needed to clean out the massive amount of scar tissue, I think it would have been a cake walk.

      I will say that as the gas used to extend the abdomen is absorbed, I got very sharp knife like pains in my shoulders. But otherwise, recover was not bad at all.

      Do follow your surgeon’s guidelines on what you can/can’t do afterwards as adhesions are no fun.

    • Anom

      How did you know you had one? What were your symptoms? What did it look like?

      Asking bc I’m wondering if I need to make appointment w dr to see if a new squishy lump on my groin is a hernia.

    • Anon-for-this

      Spouse had an open bilateral inguinal repair- he was pretty much miserable for 2 weeks, then very very cranky for 2 weeks after that – basically back to normal at about 6 weeks. (but he’s definitely on the low pain tolerance end of folks). Doing both sides at once basically added up to a c-section- most of his abdominal wall was cut. He considered a laproscopic repair, but the open one promised a better repair. Not sure the additional recovery time was worth it.

      Honestly the thing that helped the most was the stool softeners+ having a TV in the bedroom.

  17. Anon

    Does anyone get really nervous going to the dr? I’m talking heart pounding nervous as if you’re a little kid being forced to go to the dr by your parents except you’re 40. They notice it because they listen to the heart esp the cardiologist and they’ll say — hmm it’s never this fast in daily life (because I’ve had to do heart monitors for other things). It’s embarrassing. And FWIW I like this dr — have known him for 20 yrs, am comfortable with him, he just chats about regular life too (or he used to IDK if the pandemic has made it more – get me out of this room – or if they’re behaving normally just with a mask on). Anyone else? Any tips that help?

    • Anon

      Sort of. I have a Fitbit, so I can see that my heart rate is often much higher than normal and my blood pressure is often a little high. For me, I’ve moved a lot, so I’m often seeing new doctors, never one I feel like I know well, which definitely makes it more stressful. I also have several different chronic conditions that I’m trying to manage and have pretty negatively affected my life, but I feel like I have to downplay that or my doctors will just think I’m hysterical. But I still need them to take my issues seriously enough to treat me, and that’s a hard line to walk. So I’m always pretty stressed about doctor visits, but it seems sort of justified. Does something similar apply to you or is there something else you’re worried about? Either way, I try to focus on breathing in consciously relaxing, which helps a little.

    • Anon

      Yes, I get white coat hypertension. It’s a pretty common phenomena, so my doctors are used to it. They just have record blood pressure and heart rate at another time (at home or at a pharmacy) so they can get more accurate numbers.

      • Anon

        I get it too, and I just tell the doctor that’s what’s going on. They understand.

        I see a rheumatologist now for RA and I don’t get nervous seeing him because I go so often, I’m used to him by now. I also don’t have that “what horrible thing is he going to find?” anxiety because we both already know I have RA and all he’s doing is treating it.

    • Z

      My partner gets white coat syndrome too, increased heart rate and blood pressure. He has excellent blood pressure when he’s not nervous at the doctor’s office.

    • Anon

      My heart rate doesn’t change way too much, but I get really sweaty and end up sticking to the paper gown and the paper on the exam table.

      • Anon

        OMG me too, except my heart rate spikes too. I had a very painful speculum experience in the past and now I get mega butt sweat waiting for the procedure. I sweat through the paper once and was mortified and the tech all casually was like “happens all the time. You are not the first and you won’t be the last.” I didn’t totally believe her so I’m glad you admitted to it here!

        • Anon

          Thank you!! I’m glad not to be the only sweaty person at the doctors office!!

        • anonymousftw

          Another doctor’s-office sweat-er here! It’s so embarrassing — not that sweating should be something to be embarrassed about, but still. And my HR is always significantly higher there, and I always feel like they don’t believe me when I say that’s not normal for me.

    • Anon

      Very late to this, but I am another person with insanely fast HR at the doctor. I’m often fighting a panic attack, and it takes a day to recover — it’s actually a symptom of an anxiety disorder. For me, that’s because I get a combo of ‘omg-I-hope-they-don’t-find-anything’ fear, the overwhelming feeling I’m not in control, and the smell of sanitizer – which I very strongly associate with the illnesses and deaths of loved ones.

    • Cat

      I wore these in the 90’s (when even teens looked like office managers sometimes) so am not eager to repeat the look.

    • Anon

      I really try not to yuck anybody’s yum, but I find those to be absolutely hideous.

      • Senior Attorney

        I feel like many of the fashionable shoes now are pretty awful, alas.

        • Anonymous

          I feel like most of what is “in fashion” at the moment looks pretty strange to my eye.

    • MissK

      I actually like them – I had a similar pair from Via Spiga a couple years back. My problem with this kind of slides is they were not comfortable to walk in.
      Also – not very versatile in terms of outfits. I wore mine with midi skirts / culottes / cropped jeans, but they wouldn’t have worked with any of my dresses for example.

    • Anon

      If you are either quite young or quite stylish I’d say yes to them. If not, they’re going to read Palm Beach matron.

    • Flats Only

      So sad. Here’s hoping he gets the massive state funeral he deserves, even if crowds aren’t allowed to gather.

      • Anon

        NPR (!) had a piece on DMX (!!) yesterday (or earlier this week). I didn’t know so much about his background or his successes (only his problems, which were many). I drive a minivan but have “Up in Here” on my car’s iPod (from back when MTV played videos). I am really thrown by his passing — he was born 3 months after me. RIP DMX (and Prince Phillip).

        • Anon

          With someone like DMX, he had immense talent. And yet it seems that the abuse he suffered as a kid (and being exposed to drugs by a father-like figure as a teen) had a very, very long tail. I wonder what his life would have been like if he had grown up in a non-abusive household (not every non-abusive household creates problem-free kids, but you can see how growing up in disfunction and being in and out of youth homes is unlikely to create a vanilla adult with no issues).

      • Monte

        I have been playing a lot of DMX since he went in to the hospital. This just makes me so sad — so talented, and battling so many demons.

        • Anonymous

          DMX was arrested on animal cruelty charges years ago – they found a number of mistreated pit bulls and several carcasses in his home. Not so sorry for the news.

  20. Shananana

    Can we have another run through of the things you have outsourced/automated that have helped you the most? Headed into my busy time of year for the next 4 months, which includes lots of car travel and working from another location a week or two a month and am already feeling the overwhelm rising. I am single, no children, but own a home and have a pet (who travels with me thankfully).

    • Curious

      I just booked a cleaner through our local Mutual Aid group and I am so excited!

    • jh

      Laundry wash and fold service
      House cleaner
      Grocery or other repeat items (toiletries etc) delivery

    • Senior Attorney

      I don’t do grocery delivery, but I am a huge convert to order-online-pick-up-curbside. It’s so easy and fast, and it remembers what you’ve ordered so after a few weeks it’s almost automatic. I’m never going back to in-person grocery shopping. (And oops, this is not very relevant because you won’t be eating at home much.)

      In other news, every bit of my financial life is automated. The paycheck hits the bank, the money goes out via bill-pay and automatic savings transfers, all untouched by human hands.

    • Anonymous

      For theft prevention we got a private mailbox at a UPS store and have our packages sent there. It’s been great for unexpected travel as well.

      • Anon with PO box

        We have a post office box and love it. Turns out that we live so close to our relatively small town’s post office that mail isn’t delivered to our address and we are required to rent a post office box. It’s great not having to deal with the risk of mail theft. And ditto what the previous poster said about making it easy to travel on short notice (back when we could do that).

    • Anonymous

      When covid permits (we just entered a stay at home order yesterday for 4 weeks — in Canada), I’m going to work with a cleaning person on a system that includes more than the standard cleaning and add the hours to provide for that. For example, deep clean of the laundry room one week, the kitchen including the inside of the fridge and stove another, window tracks in all rooms, etc. A Canadian company called GoCleanGo has published a handbook that I’m going to use to set this up. When I contracted with someone to clean pre covid, I had the surface level stuff done, but not the deep cleaning.

      • Anon

        Our cleaner did all that on her own. I never had to say “Oh, this is the week for the fridge deep clean, please” or similar. She knew what to do and when. Sometimes she’d surprise me by cleaning something I hadn’t thought about in yonks.

  21. Chauvin (George Floyd) Trial

    Anyone watching? I thought the pulmonologist the prosecution put on yesterday was very effective.

    • Anonymous

      I have been watching and I agree. That doctor was a very effective witness. They will try to paint him as biased/personally invested for some reason based on his having waived his fees, but that won’t matter. The narrations of the video by both of the doctors who testified yesterday were persuasive to me. I thought the questioning of the pulmonologist was also very well done. It was well-prepared but I also just liked that prosecutor’s delivery a lot.

  22. WWYD - career

    TL:DR: Was #2 legal hire, and as our department scales, I keep getting pushed down. Is this a sign to leave? Or should I cruise with a good salary and pre-IPO equity vesting monthly? Advice needed.

    Perhaps because I had a business background pre-law, I am used to people being promoted based on skill, not on tenure. The writing seems to be on the wall that I will now be junior, indefinitely. I feel like this is hampering my skillset and could “set me back” when I look for my next job.

    Background: I am an in-house attorney, six years out, background in biglaw, but many years being a senior paralegal at top firms before I went to law school and then biglaw and then in-house. At my most recent previous job, I was the sole attorney at a very fast growing tech company (late stage, unicorn, etc.) even though I was “young” by class year. I ran corporate/securities, procurement, sales, real estate and managed OC re IP portfolio management, plus I scaled the department and did a lot of legal ops. I was a member of the exec team. I left that job because the founder was very abusive (like we had a suicide and several mental breakdowns in short succession). That abusive.

    I joined a similar-stage company as the second US legal hire, as a Corporate Counsel below a very, very experienced Chief Legal Officer, who was once my 1L grandboss. I worked side-by-side with this CLO for a year, and then the CLO brought a DGC Corporate in (which was always expected). My boss had previously been resistant to speaking about skills development (as in what I was lacking) or what I needed to do to “move up.” And now we’re hiring a Senior Corporate Counsel in my vertical (so I have another boss). Her previous “midlevel” hire took four years (so 9 years out of law school) to be promoted to senior counsel. And now there will not even be a “slot” for me to be promoted to.

    Do I leave? I could certainly leave to be a head of legal at an earlier stage startup (Series C or so). But also, we’re on the cusp of an IPO (next 9 mos) and so (despite the fact that I have previous IPO experience, all of which was at firms, not in-house) I feel like it would be good for me to stay. But every day I am dying a little bit inside, when half of my day is spend doing very siloed, (lonely), junior-level tasks. WWYD? Suggestions for finding the joy in what I have, which is objectively a good gig, but just boring as hell? My newish DGC boss talks a good game about development, but is a classic information hoarder/doesn’t invite me to meetings I used to be in, etc. Is this just change, and I need to get on board, because we’re growing, or did my grandboss relegate me to obscurity here? HALP.

    • No Face

      In your shoes, I would stay through the IPO. I think the ability to stay you’ve done IPOs at firms and in-house sounds really impressive. Then promote yourself to another job.

      • anonnnn

        +1 (FWIW I am in house where development is truly valued and they walk the walk.)

    • Anonymous

      I wouldn’t leave. You’re a 6th year. I don’t care how long you were a paralegal you probably would benefit from more time to develop your skills.

    • anon

      I would stay through the IPO but I’d look after that. You got layered, and since you got layered by someone who has history with you (if I’m understanding you correctly that your current GC was at your biglaw firm with you), I think that’s a pretty good indicator that you don’t have good long-term prospects of moving up at this company. That being said, if you’re only six years out, that will make you a junior level hire at a lot of non-startup in-house legal departments, I think. My company (F50 financial institution) doesn’t even hire in-house lawyers with less than 7 years of experience (and your paralegal experience wouldn’t count for us). I can’t speak to the startup world, though.

    • Anon

      Stay. GC here who builds out teams. For the stage of your company what you’re describing is normal. You’re also junior. Your pre-law experience makes you more plug and play wrt client relationships but you still need to learn how to do the higher level work. It’s much easier to hire that skill in. Stay and learn from the person who gets hired. And don’t leave your equity on the table in exchange for your ego.

  23. Notinstafamous

    Someone here recommended the Years of Rice and Salt by Kim Stanley Robinson and while I am enjoying it, I downloaded a copy from the library and didn’t realize how LONG it is. I keep on thinking I’m done and then realizing I’m only 1/3 of the way through!

    That is all. The perils of ebooks I guess.

      • Cb

        I often find myself surprised at how long or short something is, because you don’t see the thickness of a physical book. My kindle tells me my reading time based on my speed but the Libby app doesn’t seem to.

        • anonshmanon

          My Libby app has this on the ‘shelf’ screen, i.e. before I pick up and open any particular book. Next to each book – if I have started reading at all – it has a little progress bar, and says how many % are done, how long i’ve read and how many hours to finishing.

      • Anon

        I’ve found most of the books I read on my kindle don’t have a page number option.

        • Anon

          On the lower left of your kindle you can tap to either show page number or not to show page numbers. Yours may be set to not show and you didn’t realize it.

    • No Face

      I once thought I downloaded a novel, when I actually downloaded an entire series. At one point I finally thought, how am I still reading this? It turns out I was on the third novel by that time.

  24. Cb

    Can a tax person explain what “inefficient tax” is? Google just takes me to links about the inefficiency of the tax systems, but that doesn’t make sense in this context: “Provinces receive 60% of tax revenue from income and corporation tax, 10% from payroll, and the rest from inefficient taxes”?

    • Anonymous

      Sales tax? Inefficient because everyone is taxed at same rate regardless of ability to pay? If your quote is about Canada, there are federal and provincial goods and services taxes in most provinces and those are not referenced in the sentence under income/corp/payroll so they must be consider ‘inefficient’ but I’ve never heard them referred to in that way and I work in Cdn govt in a tangentially related area to taxation.

      • Cb

        Yes, Canada! Thank you! I am doing some work on the Canadian and Australian internal markets, and some of the vocabulary is new to me.

    • Anon

      Huh, if I encountered just that sentence I would assume it was a typo, but I’m only familiar with American public finance terms so that could be a difference.

    • Vicky Austin

      Tax efficiency is paying the least you can be legally required to. Perhaps that remaining 20% is made up of people overpaying somehow?

      • Walnut

        I would agree with this. This niche is my jam and ‘inefficient’ is not typical terminology.

    • nuqotw

      In economics an “efficient” outcome is one in which the total benefit to all members of society is as large as possible. An inefficient tax is one that reduces the total benefit below the efficient level.

      Example: Zora owns a widget which she values at 0. Neale is willing to pay 10 for the widget and Hurston is willing to pay 8. The efficient thing to do is for Zora to sell the widget to Neale at some price p between 0 and 10. Then the total benefit society receives is 10 (p to Zora, 10 – p to Neale, 0 to Hurston). It’s inefficient for Zora to keep the widget (total benefit 0) and it’s inefficient to sell it to Hurston (total benefit 8). Efficiency has nothing to do with how the benefit is distributed, just that the total is as large as possible.

      Now suppose there is a tax of 3 on widgets owned by people named Neale. It’s an inefficient tax because now the total benefit of selling to Neale is 7 and the total benefit of selling to Hurston is 8.

      Taxes both raise money and create incentives. Sometimes the incentives (as in the widget tax) encourage individuals to do things that are good for them but bad for society, e.g. with the tax Zora now wants to sell her widget to Hurston who values it less than Neale.

  25. Rash Guard Help

    Can anyone help me find a cropped rash guard? I need coverage on arms and back but don’t want a full length shirt.

  26. anon for this

    WWYD – I got the notice to schedule my second Pfizer dose and the only day currently available is the day before I have a medium-important work presentation. My boss could certainly do the presentation without me and would be supportive if I were out, but this presentation to this group would be really good for my professional visibility, as I am still relatively new at this org. Would you:
    – Take the appointment and hope for the best, but know I might be laid up and be out of work, or
    – Wait a week and plan to get it a week later (thereby pushing full protection out another week)

    • Z

      I would keep that appointment and in the meantime look for appointments elsewhere for the day after the appointment. It doesn’t necessarily matter if you get the 2nd shot at the same place you got the first. Pfizer’s 2nd shot is the exact same as the 1st, so you just have to go somewhere that is doing Pfizer.

      • Jeffiner

        This is regional dependent. In my city, you have to go back to the place you got your first. Places that give out first shots are required to order enough second doses to cover their patients.

    • Anon

      Protection against deadly virus > work, no questions asked. Wouldn’t even hesitate.

      • emeralds

        Yeah, I really think this is correct. The less complicated people try to make their vaccine logistics and the less they deviate from the schedules they get from their vaccination site, the easier it is for the supply chain and the folks routing vaccine supplies.

      • Senior Attorney

        Agree. Anecdata: I had a slight headache the second day that was easily manageable with OTC meds.

      • Anon

        Disagree that most people are fine. Almost everyone I know was laid up the next day after the 2nd, but that was with Moderna.

          • anon

            I know lots of younger folks who’ve had bad reactions to the second Pfizer dose. I think age is more important than vaccine manufacturer.

          • Anon

            I am still going through an absolute hell of a reaction to Pfizer 2. I feel like absolute garbage, coming up on 48 hours. I would definitely not plan anything important for the day after the shot.

      • No Face

        Anecdata: I received my second Pfizer dose on Wednesday. Yesterday was the worst I have ever felt in my life, except during childbirth and after car accidents. From 1pm Thursday to 6am this morning, I felt absolutely awful and could only lay in bed listening to an audiobook. At 6am this morning, the cloud lifted and I feel amazing.

        • No Face

          To add, I am under 35. My mother is in her 60s and she just needed Tylenol.

    • AnonMPH

      Meh, now that availability is exploding everywhere, I’d look for an appointment after your work presentation. Doesn’t seem like the new appointment would need to be a full week later, just, the next available after your thing is done. 3 weeks is the floor, not the ceiling. You’ll already be at 80-90% protection at the date of your second dose, so I think it’s fine to push it back a tiny bit.

    • Anon

      How old are you? If you’re 35 or younger, I would wait. I (30), and many of my friends, had bad second dose symptoms the day after. Obviously not a scientific study, but does confirm what I’ve read about younger people having more severe side effects.

    • Anon

      Do not plan on doing anything important within 48 hours of your second shot. I posted yesterday afternoon about my post-second-shot reaction, which I am still in the throes of, and it is no joke. You could have a mild reaction or no reaction but you never know.

      In your shoes I’d try to move my appointment for after the important work date.

    • Anon

      Pfizer shot #1 has 50-80% protection from getting the virus and almost 100% coverage from hospitalization and death. England is having Pfizer (and AZ) recipients wait 12 weeks between shots, precisely because one shot has so much efficacy. I would postpone, unless you are immune compromised.

  27. MJ

    So–this will sound very stupid to many of the more experienced ladies on the board, but…what is the process for booking a mammogram? Do you need a referral from your PCP? Do you just call a diagnostic place? I use OneMedical for most of my medical needs, and so I don’t really know who to ask/where to go. I have a PPO, very good coverage, yadda yadda.

    • anon

      I got my appt due to my GP referring me. She gave me a paper with the contact info of the clinic, and it was a simple and straightforward matter of calling them and setting up an appt from there. There may have been online options for an appt, but it worked out that I called them.
      I went to the GP for an annual wellness exam and brought up that I am the age for a mammogram (or maybe she did) and everything was a breeze from there.
      For me the actual ‘gram wasn’t even painful, just awkward. Call your Dr and tell them you need help getting started on the process. They should be able to help you, possibly without an appt with them first!

    • KS IT Chick

      You don’t have to have a PCP, but the imaging provider will need to have someone to whom they can send the results.

      Screenings mammography is one of the preventive services which is required to accept self-referral (no provider orders required), but any follow up testing does require orders. A diagnostic center can get you set up for the initial screening, but they are required to suggest that you should be seeing a PCP.

      Not a stupid question! I only know because I work in healthcare and helped set up a breast care center at my former employer.

    • Anonymous

      Mine goes through my gynecologist, both referral and where they send the information.

  28. Anon

    Rant about corporate things that feel like a complete waste of time – I’ll start…project management meetings where we are all looking at the project manager share their screen and type in every little tiny detail of “update” or things that will happen. It drives me mad. We don’t need a massive spreadsheet of tiny details to get this shit done.

    • Walnut

      My PM schedules “You can skip this meeting if you update your details in advance” meetings. She’s the best.

    • Shananana

      OMG YES, this is the fidgetiest and most distracted I get in any meeting hands down. Its like it is meant to trigger ADD. I try my hardest to avoid them and send updates ahead of time, because chances are by the time they get to me I have mentally wandered off and am working on something else.

    • Anon

      My boss insisting on multi-hour departmental meetings every week. This is a colossal waste of time and I have too much work to listen to the same few people blather in excruciating detail about their work that is not relevant to anyone else.

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