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And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
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Senior Consultant
Is there a politically correct way of rolling out of a project?
I am new at this consulting firm and have done a specific type of project 5 times at my previous employer. I am doing it now for the 6th time and my new employer is happy to finally get this type of projects in.
However, the acting project manager is a consultant who is not senior enough (maturity and experience) to hold the position, so he has been running the whole team through the ground for the past 3 months. Working 80-90 hours week has been the norm regardless of whether we have key client meetings.
We are meant to stop right before Christmas and the client would decide whether to extend the project by 12 months. Is there any way I can ask to be removed?
I am more experienced though new to the company so was happy to share my knowledge with someone who is doing this project for the first time.
The project manager is very toxic, imposes a lot of self-inflicted stress and talks down to people. I think I deserve better and really want to succeed at this new job. I want out to keep my sanity but don’t feel comfortable saying he is too toxic to handle.
AN
I can’t tell how senior you are so am assuming you’re the same level as the PM.
If your firm is happy to get this type of work in, it won’t be easy to excuse yourself.
Can you maybe position yourself as an SME rather than a project member proper? So you’re available to advise but with some arms length distance that gives you space from the toxic manager?
Ellen
In the legal area, we do not really have this luxury in a small firm, b/c if you can’t get along with someone, you pretty much are out of luck (and a job). I have learned that no matter how dumb or thick someone is at my firm, it is MY job to get the task done, even if I have to do both my work and that other person’s work.
So what I would do, if I were you is to try and figure out if you can get out of it, and if you can, head for the hills ASAP. If you can’t get out of it, go with the flow, as Dad says, and you will all be better off b/c of your stick-to-it-iveness! YAY!!!
Alice
Do you have a specific project you could roll off to? That would make it easier as you could frame it more about wanting to be on the new project than disliking this one.
Do you have an assigned counselor or mentor and what’s your relationship with them – could they help?
Abigail
Do you have another project you could roll off to? That would make it easier because it could be more about wanting to be on another project than disliking this one.
Are you friendly with your assigned counselor/coach/mentor? Could they help you find a new project?
Honestly I think it can be difficult to get off projects without a “good reason”. If you’re not interested in this type of work or this industry long term you could say that, but you do have to mean it. Alternatively if you have some type of reason you absolutely can’t do this project – although the only time I’ve seen that work was when the person was pregnant and could not travel regularly.
Anonymous
IDK … are you sure it’s a project manager problem and not unreasonable client expectations/too limited of a contract/par for the course for your employer? Can you give feedback along the lines of, with my previous experience in this type of work I was expecting to do x, y, and z in 50 hrs a week, we can accomplish this by doing abc. (Instead of citing toxicness point out the inefficiencies.)
Anonymous
If you are new to a firm, it will be tough to do if there is nothing else lined up. If you then sit on the bench for 3 months, it’s a pretty bad look.
My practice is open to it if you have put in a strong effort and you can make a case on why other upcoming projects would help your development path. If it’s, ‘i just don’t want to,’ that isn’t taken as well. The exception is if you are a mediocre or poor performer, in education case the project is more than happy to see you go.
anon
I have a $350 gift for Kendra Scott I won in a raffle I am trying to use. What are your favorite Kendra Scott jewelry items?
Anonymous
I have my eye on some of their druzy pieces. Particularly in rose gold.
Delta Dawn
I get a lot of use out of their earrings. I find the Danielle too large, but I wear the Dani a lot. I have the Dani in some sort of tiger’s eye stone and in a white/pearly stone. I wear the tiger eye one in fall and the white one in summer. I also have one pair of the Elle that I love for something a little dangly but not too much. I also really like most of their delicate short necklaces; they look great for layering. If you are into long necklaces, the Rayne is a long stone with a metal tassel hanging from it. I like it over solid color sweaters/columns of color. They also make the Rayne without the tassel, called the Reid I think, if you want something more simple.
cbackson
So there is a discussion over on AAM today about a law firm (I think it’s a firm from the question) that is asking people to do 10-20 hour sample projects as part of the hiring process. This specific example seemed insane to me, but we have considered adding a sample work component to our hiring for junior lawyers (specifically 3L hires and lawyers with under 3 years of practice). We’re considering this because any writing sample they submit has typically been heavily edited by more senior lawyers, and in years 1-3, laterals often don’t have enough substantive experience for us to be able to assess through the interview what skills they have. I’m also of the view that this would be helpful given that the current law firm model of 30 minute unstructured chats tends to allow bias to run rampant (e.g., research shows that “cultural fit” is largely a code word for “this candidate is demographically similar to me, the interviewer”).
What we’ve considered is a one hour to 90 minute in-office writing exercise. We’re transactional, so we’d probably give them materials and ask them to write a one-page letter or an email to a partner analyzing the issue (so not a full memo, but a more structured email). Any thoughts on practical exercises for interviewing that are actually useful and not overly burdensome to candidates? There are some ideas discussed in the AAM thread, but many of them still seem like too much to ask of candidates.
Also interested in any other strategies your firms may have successfully implemented to improve hiring – especially in terms of reducing the effect of implicit bias.
Anon
Our company makes new MBA hires as well as potential recruits for specific kinds of roles do a two hour Long case study. You only get interviewed for “fit” if you clear the case study.
Anonymous
With law, firms are just snobby. If they refuse to hire outside of Top 10/law review, you can’t then complain that you’re not really diverse.
I do structured finance work and largely hire in-network (friend-of-friend) and only once through a recruiter. By and large, we are able to get solid lateral candidates who work well with others. The law schools are generally a mix — middle-of-the-class at T25 or top of class at US News 100-50 schools. Largely first-generation lawyers and female parents, with some minority lawyers.
TL;DR — you can broaden your pool if you broaden your pool.
cbackson
We have some really interested data on where our most successful candidates come from – we’ve done really well with people from flagship state university law schools, and being older when you enter law school is highly correlated with success at our firm. Our pool is pretty broad, but I still worry that from the broad pool, who actually makes it through the hiring process ends up being skewed in a way that I’m not sure is reflective of aptitude.
cbackson
(We actually only have two attorneys from a T10 school in the practice group, of which I’m one.)
Anonymous
I am soooo not Top10, but law school test-taking talent isn’t a 1:1 correlation with law firm partner material. It’s a lot of soft skills (training juniors, managing clients, staying on top of collections, technical ability, etc.). I get why law firms hire at the top, but it will always result in an underdiverse set (one metric) and not get the people who will still be there 20 years later.
cbackson
Yeah, I was solidly mediocre in law school, and I’m one of the few people in my class to make partner. Especially for transactional lawyers, law school performance bears very little relationship to potential for success in practice…
Anonymous
Why is that? Do people flame out early? Leave for more money / in-house / less demanding jobs? Do people just now blossom?
The attrition rate is just high and no one knows what the secret sauce is. I work upstairs from a Big 4 accounting firm with wild attrition. They hire bodies who look promising from nearby schools both public and private (so already the geography is a known quantity). I just think that the work is hard and the path is long and you know you can’t keep everyone.
Do you think you are losing the best people to competitors? I mean, you can only do so much. At some point, it’s a crap shoot.
S in chicago
Not an attorney—I work in publishing. But we give take home tests relevant to the position for many positions and pay folks for the time. So, for example, programmers may be given certain build tasks while a marketing director may be asked to flesh out a sample campaign and schedule. It has been wonderful. You get a real snapshot of skills and the candidate gets a true look at what the day to day of the job entails.
Anon
Are you at a midsize or biglaw firm? If biglaw, I would be so turned off by this process because it is so far out of the norm. If I had other offers, this would be a huge downside to that firm that would likely lead to me taking a different offer (assuming other things are pretty consistent). There are ways to ask better questions which provide a way to assess their abilities during the interview, instead of the general getting to know you stuff that most biglaw interviews are. I would focus on developing those questions, instead of taking what appears to be the easy way out for the firm.
If you are in a midsize firm, you may have a better response with this – I’m not actually sure that you will, but my very limited understanding is that the hiring process varies for midsize firms in a way that it doesn’t for biglaw firms.
Anonymous
Yeah I’d assume your firm is weird and there is something wrong with it.
Anon
this.
I’d assume that your hiring team/firm wasn’t good at hiring people, so you cover it up with a test. I’d be especially turned off if it was within the 1st round of hiring. Maybe later when I’ve invested time, and you invest time in me, I’d be more apt to do a test, but that is a lot of time wasted.
And then *after* doing the test and being cut from the pile of applicants, what if your firm didn’t take the time to sent out a rejection letter (like most firms)? I’d be livid.
Between solid (and multiple) interviews where you REALLY have a conversation with a candidate, asking for references and actually talking to multiple references who really know that person and their work, as well as your own intuition… all of these things should lead to good people.
Anonymous
This. I’d treat it as a tell that you don’t really know how to screen people to get the candidates who’ll go the distance. Which wouldn’t give me confidence in choosing to lateral to your firm vs a different firm.
cbackson
AmLaw 50 and we’re a highly desirable practice with an overabundance of candidates. I know it’s out of the norm but we’re comfortable with that. It would actually require more work for us, but we think it’s worth it.
If you have thoughts on better questions, however, I’d be interested to hear them.
Anonymous
Are these for laterals? For a known need?
I’d let them go for longer (1 hour) among the members of the team they’d work with and see how they do shadowing / discussing anything publicly available to share (like have you worked on this sort of document on Edgar, etc.) and requesting a deal sheet so you can see what type of work they have really done.
If they are doing private equity work, who cares if the litigators thought they had a nice 20 minute chat re sports?
cbackson
Yeah, for a known and specific need (not for summer associates).
The “nice chat about sports” factor is really what we’re trying to control for. Sometimes even getting our own group members on board with having a more-than-social chat is tough, which is frustrating…
Anonymous
Usually there is one person who is the person who needs the associate (like the 8th year just left and it’s filling a crucial need to the junior partner and 5th year associate). Let those people spend the most time, then the equity partner. Let the stakeholders matter the most. They will pick the best candidate who is realistic to get the work done and fill the gap.
If you need a third year, let the 8th year and junior partner spend the most time interviewing. Like an hour. Let the rest of the team have the lunch together.
So many of my off-team interviews are just “I defer to the team; X seemed likable enough and reasonably smart,” which is 100% not helpful.
cbackson
A lot of people are mentioning extending the interview time, and I like that a lot (not extending the length of the day, but focusing on fewer people and a more in-depth discussion). Candidly, the other problem we will have is placating the people who do not actually want to interview the candidate but will be annoyed at not being asked, but that’s something that can be dealt with.
Anonymous
The last 2 places I’ve worked at (AM-law 100 firm + corporate) have set questions that each interviewer is required to ask of each candidate. It helps the compare/contrast, and cuts down on the sports chat. There’s still time for free questions/conversations, but we have to make sure we get to the required skills questions first.
Abigail
Could you include any of these questions during one of the interviews you already do? Sort of a mini-case interview, where you can get an idea of how candidates think and what their reaction to the same situation you’d have them write for would be.
cbackson
Yeah, I have thought about this too. I would want to make sure we let people know that was an aspect of our interviewing so that they would be prepared to have that kind of conversation. I think a lot of people struggle to do that sort of thing orally, especially on the spot, but maybe if they knew it was coming they’d be be less flummoxed.
Abigail
Oh for sure let them know before hand, maybe even give them a sample question. You’re not trying to stress them out unnecessarily!
Anonymous
I don’t know what are you work in, but are you doing a skills test b/c you don’t know if people have the background knowledge or can write or something else?
And with laterals, don’t you kind of know if you get them from Skadden (or some other firm), what sort of training and knowledge they’d have as a 3rd,5th,8th year, etc.? Especially if they are local laterals?
We have a national ERISA practice and they never fail with a lateral hire b/c they know their competitors and their subject matter and can spot a problem candidate from a mile away. I refuse to believe that they are lucky b/c they are just very, very deliberate.
Our corporate people just have high attrition, so they sometimes tolerate a warm body (esp. if they are already admitted in our state and we don’t have to wait for them to move), but chances are that that person won’t be around in 2-3 years anyway. Same thing with litigation.
cbackson
So what we do is done by very few firms, and that means we typically have to hire from general corporate practices. Candidly, we’ve hired people from Skadden-type firms in the US who have had very poor writing/logical reasoning skills. I’ve not found the firm the candidate is lateraling from to be a strong indicator of success.
Anonymous
If what you do is done by few firms (and you aren’t hiring from them), it will just be a crap shoot. And look at why people lateral — foundering, unclear of direction, bad review, geography. It will really be a crap shoot.
Unless someone wrote a journal note on your area, they likely have no idea or background. I’d look in-network for nice people who are trainable vs spotting some diamond in the rough with a test.
Anonymous
My thought is you’re making an already difficult process into a nightmare. A 90 minute times closed book test is a type of assessment that is out of favor at law schools with good reason. If you’re having this much trouble hiring junior laterals do a better job recruiting a summer class.
Anonymous
That’s a long time for a lateral to spend out of their normal office.
Why not, esp. if local, meet the candidate a couple of times. Date a bit before you marry, so to speak.
cbackson
We would probably cut some of the chit-chatty morning interviews to make time for this. Our standard interviews for all candidates are half day + a meal (so morning + lunch or afternoon + dinner), so they’re already out of the office more than half the day.
Anon
Instead of asking about sportsball/some random unrelated stuff, ask substantive questions. I’ve done multiple in-house and government interviews, and biglaw is the only place where people are incapable of asking intelligent work-related questions and it seems to be largely a factor of laziness.
I’m not a corporate person, but for a litigation junior, it would be questions like:
– Tell me about a time that you prepared a partner for a deposition. What process did you use?
– Tell me about a time that you wrote a motion. What was the topic and type of motion? What was the most challenging thing about the motion?
– If a client came to you with a situation [provide basic fact pattern], how would you approach researching potential causes of action?
Ask them what they have done, how they would approach something, etc, so that you can see if their approach makes sense.
anon transactional midlevel
This. There’s tons of substantive corporate questions that you can ask. The best lateral candidates either looking to change practice areas because they don’t like the one they’re in; they’re trying to escape a toxic partner or firm; or they’re exhausted and hoping your firm has slightly better work-life balance. The firm that asks the candidate to do extra work will be far less attractive to busy people. If you request an assignment that is too specialized, you’ll week out good generalists who could be retooled. I see only downsides to this approach and very little upside.
Here’s some good transactional questions I’d ask.
– would this situation require filing an 8-K?
– what sort of corporate approvals would be necessary to do a venture financing?
– when you are diligencing a target, what do you look for? What would be deal killer red flag to you?
– walk me through why you would build an escrow into a merger agreement and why would that be attractive to you as a buyer? Why would you dislike an escrow as a seller?
– how much drafting experience do you have? In a M&A deal, who prepares the first draft of the main agreement?
– walk me through your role on this deal on your dealsheet. How big was the deal team?
– what is your philosophy on managing difficult junior associates? difficult senior associates? difficult partners?
– what e-resources to you use to make yourself a better lawyer (PLC, client alerts, Intelligize, etc.)
Ask the right questions, get good answers. If a candidate is super-willing to go through all of this just for your group, sure…they’re interested. But maybe you’re just getting someone who’s desperate to leave, not the best candidates. The best candidates have options.
Anonymous
That’s a hideous awful idea you should be ashamed of yourself. Are you that far removed from the reality of being a junior looking for work? A 90 minute timed test? What? I’m just appalled.
cbackson
What makes it appalling and hideous to you, other than that it’s unusual in big firm hiring (it’s not necessarily unusual in hiring for other types of legal jobs, by the way – see comments below)?
Anonymous
Because it’s a 90 minute closed book test. It’s not real as much as you’d like to pretend it is. It’s taking people at an already stressful time and throwing them into a pressure cooker. It’s inhumane and no other law firm needs it. You’ll get candidates good at this one particular skill, timed test taking, but not necessarily good lawyers.
Anon
I think the closed book part is what gets me – it does not mirror reality at all. I’m in structured finance (not poster from above). Sure, there are certain concepts and math you should know but, come on. I google things daily that I should know but am otherwise out of practice on – excel formulas, mostly, but those are the kinds of things that could seriously trip someone up on a test in a high-pressure situation.
We do give a test and it’s written, asking people to analyst a specific industry-related scenario. We tell people to “show their work/thinking”. We don’t care about correctness, We care about process. If you can write a strong logical response and arrive to the most incorrect answer, that’s fine by me.
cbackson
Interesting. We were thinking of the closed book nature of it as reducing stress, because the candidate wouldn’t have to do independent research of any sort – they would answer based solely on what they had in front of them. I should note, by the way, that what we were envisioning was providing something like an email from a client explaining a problem, 3-4 sample paragraphs from a contract (not a real one, obviously), and a “based on this email and these provisions, what would your advice be on this question?” I likewise worry less about the correctness of the answer than being able to see the thought process that went into the answer.
anon
Inhumane? Oh my god, calm down. Your responses are way out of line.
Maybe you’re a stressed out junior looking for work, but you obviously don’t understand what it’s like to be a stressed out partner who just hired a junior lateral who looked great on paper and could hold a convo about sportsball or whatever but can’t do the work or can’t write. Or, being that person’s colleague and thinking, crap, this new person sucks and will get let go in 9 months, but for now I’m drowning picking up his/her slack. I am currently that person, and I’ve also been the stressed out junior looking for work. A candidate can always decline and remove him or herself from consideration. It’s a voluntary “pressure cooker.”
cbackson
So it wouldn’t be a “test” – we wouldn’t be looking for someone to demonstrate that they knew the various provisions of Regulation Whatever by memory (I *do* know them and I still always look them up before I provide answers, because memory is fallible). It would be something more like, “here’s a fake email from a client, here are 3 provisions of a contract, based solely on this, what would you tell the partner we need to do?” We were thinking of the closed-book aspect of it as a way of helping clients not go crazy googling stuff, to be honest.
cbackson
Candidates, not clients.
Coach Laura
Cbackson, I agree with this and think the timed, closed book “what would you do” is a good way to learn someone’s thinking process and their out-of-the-gate writing skills.
Anonymous
Closed book would make me nervous. Even for an area I’m comfortable in, I’d spend a ton of time in advance trying to commit stuff to memory.
Anon
You’re probably appalled because you don’t know what law firm interviews are actually like. They often involve 3 to 4 hours including meeting 4 to 6 attorneys two at a time at different levels from the practice group followed by a lunch or early dinner, depending on what time the interview started. As long as the test is part of that three to four hour process, I don’t see how it impacts the interviewee negatively or if the interviewee will really gain much from that third interview.
Anonymous
Nope. Not remotely true.
Anonymous
10-20 hours projects are insane for an interview process. Asking someone to do a typical one hour task like reading a few cases and summarizing the case law in an email to a partner, is not out to lunch.
Anonymous
I’m not in law, but in finance, and think a brief email is a great way to test these skills. I agree with the poster who says formal writing samples haven’t worked well for us since others often edit them, and really, quickly drafting a brief email summarizing the key points of a situation is a lot of what our daily work life entails.
AIMS
I’ve never heard of this for a firm but I know some courts/chambers do this (e.g., give an old motion and ask the candidate to write a draft memo/decision; sometimes as a full day exercise and sometimes to take home). I think it’s also common for certain agencies like D.A.’s offices to do hypotheticals during interviews, which seems less time intensive of a commitment but still gets at the analytical skills of the applicant. I also remember a friend who had an interview with Legal Aid saying that he did a mock bail hearing as part of his interview at some point.
IHHtown
Submitting writing samples is the easiest and most normal submission other than resume for attorneys. They will have a good one prepared and you won’t chase away candidates who don’t have the time for a homework assignment. I really encourage you not to “assign a project”, especially ones that take any longer than an hour – a good attorney will see right through it as a firm that doesn’t know how to vet employees well or a firm that is trying to get candidates to do its billable work for free – I just don’t see how this can play out well for you.
The best middle ground for the transactional realm is to ask them to submit a short writing sample of a research assignment or contract/provision analysis to review writing skills and in the interview give the candidate a provision to review with a plausible client question appropriate for their level, give them a little time to review (like 10 or 15 minutes – if you ask immediately you are just evaluating bull****ting skills) then ask them for their answer. This allows you to evaluate their thought process and verbal communication skills.
cbackson
Honestly, we find the writing samples next to useless, because they’ve typically clearly been heavily revised by a senior lawyer. We’ve had people submit great writing samples whose work product ended up being awful. I like the idea of a provision review and oral discussion, though…
New Job Who Dis
so then why don’t you talk to people about their writing samples? If your hiring team is actually reading them you can have an honest conversation about the process, what and WHO went into the writing, what kind of ideas your candidate had going into the project, whether any of the writing came from a form/sample bank…
testing just feels like an over-correction for a firm’s poor hiring process. I’m one of your target attorneys, 3-4 yrs of practice, and I’ve never used a writing sample that’s been edited by bosses. In fact, I have a cover page stating exactly what part of the briefing process the sample was written, and stating that it was my final draft, before going to a partner for revision. That you have such a rampant problem with false writing samples tells me that your interviewers aren’t very good at speaking honestly to candidates.
Annie
+1 As an interview I always asked about writing samples and there would be a huge range of how cogently and authoritatively someone could talk about their writing sample, especially when you asked what they thought would happen with an altered fact pattern. I also think you can tell from reading a writing sample what is actually beautiful writing and what has just been edited into acceptability. When we were on the fence about a candidate and not sure how heavily a writing sample has been edited, we just asked for a second sample, which helped show their actual writing style. A hire’s writing pretty much always reflected what we expected after this process.
Completely different perspective
No idea about law firms, but my org has a 1-2 hour skills test for every position-what you’re proposing sounds similar. It seemed surprising and stressful when I first started interviewing, but didn’t seem unresonable in theory.
Also, I interviewed for two very different positions, in two different departments, and the experiences were completely different.
1st department, gave me a 7 page closed book exam that looked like the finals from every class my senior year of college combined. I’m sure I “flunked” it, because I hadn’t needed to make most of those calculations in 5 years. Since college I had jobs, specializing, but also maturing and learning other transferable skills.
Second test was a hands-on request that I do a short excercise, which I now do (got the job) every few months. When I blanked out on a basic fact I needed to get started, I asked, and my future boss told me. I was able to consult the Internet oracle when I got stuck- (found out later, that may or may not have been kosher (make sure you are clear ahead of time) but my boss regularly expects us to use that tool, it’s fundamental to the job).
Marilla
Not in law or in the US, but we do something similar as part of hiring. Either a 1 hour writing/analysis exercise immediately following the interview or a take-home analysis plus a brief presentation as part of the interview. I wouldn’t hire without it. 10-20 hours is way over the top though – this is either a couple hours at home (max) or one hour in office.
Recruiter
Recruiter here. Terrible idea in a buyers market, which is most markets today in the US. If you want to attract top talent, you don’t make the process terrible. This includes free labor, tests, etc. If your firm has a bias problem, fix your hiring bias, don’t punish the candidate.
baseballfan
Not an attorney (Big 4 accounting), but several years ago I interviewed for a position as a tax technical editor for a company specializing in tax research materials/information portal. I was asked to read some new law and summarize it in a typical kind of exercise that I would have been asked to do in that job. It took me 1-2 hours and in my view was valuable for both the company and me. They got to see my writing style and whether I could actually do the job, and I got a taste of what the job would have been like.
For my current position, I was not asked to do anything like this and if they had asked, I would have been very surprised (because this position does not involve significant research and/or writing).
AFT
I interviewed for a midlaw firm that had a 2-3 hr practical writing assignment as part of the hiring process. My recollection (it was ~10+ years ago) was that the hiring team set it up so that the materials were sent out at the time of the applicant’s choosing, and due X hrs after transmission. My vague recollection is that I was given all required materials (cases, laws, etc.) from an adjacent legal area (think employment law/employee benefits) and asked to write a short argument based on the info. I think, as long as the process is explained from the start and you have a large selection of good candidates, it’s not a bad idea but you may lose some candidates who don’t want to do the work.
On the flip side, I’ve been involved in the more typical biglaw lateral hiring model, and have repeatedly been burned by people who give great cocktail conversation but aren’t good writers/have poor attention to detail/unwilling to put in work/etc., and I’ve wondered if a practical test would have helped us to avoid some of those folks.
anonnnnnn
My $.02 from a non-law firm perspective (I was hired from a summer associate program) but am in a law-adjacent/JD preferred position now.
If I was given notice in advance and it wasn’t closed book, this wouldn’t bother me at all. I was given a much, much shorter pop quiz during an interview for a contract manager position at a large company and, while the pop part of it wasn’t ideal, it allowed me to show off my contract analysis and drafting skills. Those skills aren’t as easy to suss out through oral questions and, like some, I am much better at putting my thoughts in writing re: contract analysis than I am orally.
Anonymous
+1. I had to do this while I was interviewing for post-law school jobs at AG’s offices, DA’s offices, and other government agencies. If I knew about it in advance and could mentally prepare for it (vs showing up just prepared to do 4 sets of interviews with 2-3 attorneys at a time), it was fine. I appreciated getting some insight into the types of things that those offices did, and yes, it was a better example of my analytical process than any writing sample that had been heavily edited by supervisors or professors. For a DA’s office, it was something like a scenario and some statutes, and I had to decide what to charge and draft a complaint.
Anon
I recently transferred as a junior lateral, and I would have been totally fine with this type of test (and tbh would have actually preferred it). I’m a 4th year at a small litigation boutique that I moved to from an insurance defense-ish type firm. I was in about the middle of my class at a T20 school that is the best school in the city I work in.
My market is fairly competitive, so I have always had trouble getting in the door to get in interview. However, once I get in the door, I almost always get a call-back. Also, every time I have been asked to submit a writing sample, I have always gotten a job offer. For some reason, the writing sample normally comes up after the call-back in my city, so I have to go pretty far in the process before once is even asked for. I would prefer a system where I have to submit one early on.
My husband is in software development, and they always do technical interviews. He has interviewed so many people that have the “soft skills” but are not able to do the work.
As an aside, two firms in my city have done something similar (but way more intense) and had terrible results. One firm requires you to work for them for about 6 weeks on a probationary basis before they decide if they want to hire you. This was ok for them in the recession, but now they can’t get anyone to work for them. Another firm scrapped their summer program and had 3Ls do sample projects during the year. I think that the program itself actually got ok feedback, but the issue was that they were only going after the top 10% of the class type people who normally had offers from other places that they had worked that summer. Those people also normally had better connections with those firms from all of the social events and actual work they had done instead of the made up project, so they normally accepted the offers from the other firms.
BabyAssociate
I had to do a writing exercise during my last round interview at my current (boutique) firm. It was about an hour and was more of an issue spotter rather than a structured memo. I was able to use any resources I needed. The work here is very specialized, so it seemed fair.
Anon
I think it’s a fantastic idea, provided that the candidate knows going in that this will be part of the interview process.
In one interview I had (AGC), the GC handed me a contract and said to spend 20 minutes reading through it and making notes. He was very clear that I wasn’t supposed to redline it all, just to be able to spot issues. We then talked about it and how I would approach the issues.
In another interview, the company sent me an email 24 hours before the interview started with a test that would take 5-6 hours. The deadline was by the interview. That was just a sign that the company had problems.
BigLaw hiring has always seemed crazy to me. I get that you don’t want to work with jerks or put people in front of clients when those people can’t shower, but so much of it is “are you like me” hiring. It’s not just demographics; it’s life choices. I have some horror stories of associates who just were not able to be professional in the hiring process.
cbackson
Oh, I like the “notes on the contract” idea. The interactive discussion piece would be super useful in terms of understanding how the candidate thinks.
anonnnnnn
This was very similar to what I was asked to do in my interview for a contract manager position. I am confident in my work and my abilities, so I wasn’t bothered by it although I wish I had been given a heads-up it was coming.
In House
I’m in house, and this was part of my interview process as well. I was given a heads up that there would be a practical skills potion of the interview, but I wasn’t exactly sure what that meant. The interview itself lasted about an hour and then I was given a contract that they asked me to read over and spot issues/make some corrections to for 20-30 minutes. We didn’t discuss it after, but I do think that would be a great step as well.
I thought it was actually a pretty good idea because it showed me some of what my department does, and it showed them at least a little snippet of my abilities.
I would not have liked a more formal 90-minute skills test with lots of materials, etc. That just seems a little too much like the bar exam to me.
Diana Barry
Agreed, this seems like the least stressful on the candidate and also helpful to you.
anon
I agree that it’s a good idea if it’s short and part of the hiring process. For context, I’ve done biglaw and civil and criminal government work (and hiring) and am solidly mid-career. I’ve interviewed for a few law-adjacent jobs that made me prepare some sort of writing sample or presentation. I’ve seen enough kiss-ups and inflated resumes that I’d welcome the opportunity to show what I can actually do.
Anonymous
I’m an ex-lawyer and will admit I never saw anything like this at a law firm. But when I left law, I was asked to take a similar “practice exam” for my new position and I didn’t mind it at all. The activity (it wasn’t really a test, but more of a hands-on skills demonstration) was really kind of fun (nerd alert) and it gave me a better sense of what the job would be like. I ended up getting the job, and have been very happy here for 5+ years. I do think because it’s non-standard in law, you’d probably lose some potential hires over it, but I’m not sure that it would be a huge loss. I think it might weed out people who have a sense of entitlement and that’s exactly what you want, right?
Sky
This may be a minority opinion, but our law firm pays the final candidate(s) to come in for a day, and research and write a memo on a topic. The memo is something we actually need for the firm, not a made-up problem, with confidentiality agreements etc. It is a fantastic way to get a feel for a lot of things, including writing skills, performance under pressure, analytical skills (e.g. can they stay on topic or do they go chasing rabbits). It is also a way to see how they would fit in with our office.
I think asking people to put in 10-20 hours of unpaid work is problematic, and will drive away good candidates. However, I think inviting them for a (paid) day/half-day at the firm actually attracts good people, and so far, has weeded out people who are not the strongest for whatever reason at what we actually need them to do.
Anonymous
If you’re hiring law students, this would be okay, but not for employed laterals. It creates all sorts of conflicts issues and is a total violation of the no-moonlighting policy that all firms have (or should have).
Rainbow Hair
I think this distinction and approach is the right one. A while ago, I was asked to do *real* work (unpaid) as part of an interview process, and I was desperate and perfectionist enough to do it, and do it well. I got the job, but unsurprisingly, that employer consistently took advantage of employees, underpaid us, and also lost its good employees regularly. If I was asked to do something like that now, unpaid, I would be very wary about what it indicated about the type of employer the firm would be…
Anonymous
I recently interviewed at a firm (hint, hint, the largest law firm in the world) that asked me to do a similar exercise. They asked me to write something based on materials they provided. No time limit, but they anticipated that I could do it in a couple of hours. Had to do it at their office. It was further along in the interview process, and I ultimately withdrew for unrelated reasons. I thought it was annoying, but I understood why the firm wanted this–the same reasons you’ve articulated where the writing sample does not reflect actual skills. Not sure if this was a group-specific request or something the firm as a whole asks for.
At my current BigLaw firm, my group has asked this of candidates in the past but ultimately did away with the practice. We had trouble recruiting (for a host of reasons), and this just seemed like one additional barrier.
Anon
I just want to say LOL at the idea of a 90 minute test being “inhumane.”
Anonymous
Yeah, especially because she’s talking about Big Law! Where it’s normal to bill 2500 hours/year and miss your cousin’s wedding and cancel your first vacation in 3 years. But an hourlong test during the interview process is inhumane?? lol, ok.
Wanderlust
Poll: For those of you on employer-provided insurance, how much is deducted from your paycheck each month? I think, and I’m trying to confirm, that my employer provided insurance is not that awesome… I have a little under $400 deducted each month for a gold plan.
Brokentoe
What kind of coverage? Single? +1? Family? Does it include dental or vision? High or low deductible? All these things make a big difference.
Wanderlust
Single. Doesn’t include dental or vision. Low deductible (~$1500)
Anonymous
Only $80/month but my deductible is $2500 so I have no coverage except preventative until I’ve spent about $3500 annually. My employer brags about how great our insurance is, but I don’t think it’s great.
Anonymous
I have about $150 deducted each month (just me, my husband is on his employer’s plan). It’s independence blue cross personal choice. I think it’s a pretty good plan but I don’t really know – haven’t had any issues with it thus far, and my copays are typically $20-40 for appointments (but my maternity appointments have all been covered).
BabyAssociate
About $20/month (not including dental or vision). Single, deductible is I think is $250 and the rest is covered by an HRA. It’s really, really good health insurance.
Anon
$400/month for me and DH on an HMO. $1,000 individual deductible but they cover basically everything after we hit that. Does not include dental but does include vision. $15-35 copays.
Anon
I’ve never understood workplaces that don’t include dental…do they think teeth aren’t a part of the body? It just doesn’t make any sense, especially since it’s preventative care essentially. I asked my dentist because I was curious. If I have my tooth knocked out and it’s bleeding and needs replacement, that’s medical. If I have an infection from a rotted tooth, that’s medical. But a filling to prevent the decay or loose tooth is dental….WHAT!? I get why the US medical system is baffling to others in ways beyond the ridiculous cost.
Anon
Same Anon. We have dental coverage through the employer. I read OP too quickly and thought she was asking only for medical costs. I don’t know what the dental coverage cost is off hand but it’s not offensive and they covered all 8 (yes, EIGHT!) of my cavities this year so they’re good in my book.
Idea
I think she means dental is another insurance agency, and another payment on your paycheck.
Dental and medical insurance and practices have been separated for decades if not centuries in America, and I think Europe, too (or at least the UK, to my knowledge).
I agree dental insurance is needed and important, but they are usually separated from other general medical health needs.
Anon
Single no dependents coverage with a $1500 deductible (with deductible being put into an HSA each paycheck), 20% coinsurance up to $3k out of pocket max, with dental and vision is $120/mth. Also have employer paid partial long term and short term disability. Not great but definitely not the worst. It’s definitely much more expensive if you are being covered as a family – adding the spouse tripled the premium for some reason even though only added one person.
fedanon
$220/month for fantastic family coverage including dental and vision (not including $2600 for flex spending account).
Also known as why I am never leaving my federal job.
Betty
Self + family (DH and two children): $442 per month. It is a high deductible health plan, which means that we pay about 2K out of pocket before the plan pays anything. The plan has a 6K out-of-pocket max for prescriptions and in and out of network services. I also contribute the max to our HSA, which is 5900 this year. My employer kicks in 1000 to the HSA.
My family is a very high user of health care due to multiple chronic health conditions. This means that we hit the out-of-pocket max every year (generally by August). I have done the math and found this to be our best option because the premiums are pre-tax as are the contributions to the HSA. For comparison, the plan that is not high deductible has much higher monthly premiums and a higher out-of-pocket max (but lower co-pays). For my family, going the “standard” plan would actually be about $11,000 more expensive per year.
The other piece to evaluating is what is actually covered. If you know that you are going to have certain issues arise, see if they are covered, what preconditions must be met and ask others how many hoops they have to jump through to get things covered. I have found that my employer’s plan does not give much push-back and is generally excellent about covering things.
Anonymous
2K is very low for a family minimum on a “high deductible health plan.” In fact, I think legally it has to be $2,700 or it doesn’t even qualify as a HDHP? My family deductible is $7,500 (for through my employer). So you have a bit of a unicorn HDHP, which is probably why the math makes sense for you.
Betty
Yup, sorry, the deductible is 2700. Point is: I would recommend doing the math and having a decent understanding of your health care costs to determine the best plan for you.
Torin
Employer pays all premiums ($0 paycheck deduction), $500 deductible, includes vision and dental.
anonnnnnn
$120/mo but we are on a high deductible plan (self w/no dependents: $2k to get to co-insurance coverage, $4k out of pocket max for the year).
anonnnnnn
Oh, dental and vision are separate but are nominal.
Anonymous
We use my husband’s teacher’s union insurance, for which we pay $0 for family coverage. And it is really good coverage. On the other hand, he has a PhD, 20 years of experience, and makes five figures.
Anonymous
I paid $2k/month for family coverage before my DH started mediocre job with great health insurance. So you can bump up the equiv punching power of your spouse’s job by 24K/(1+ your marginal tax rate). Which is impressive!
Anonymous
I know, believe me – it was that much through my job too. He also has a pension, which is like having a pet unicorn as far as I am concerned. And I recently learned that we will be able to get pretty affordable insurance even after he retires through his job. It isn’t the exact same deal – we will have to contribute – but still affordable.
K.
I just want to add that not all teachers have such great benefits! I’m in the midwest and teach at a public school. Family plan costs about $600/month and has a $6,000 deductible, plus 20% of costs after that (for a higher out of pocket maximum. I’ve taught at schools where plans are even more expensive with higher deductibles. This thread is interesting to me to see the range of benefits here!
Former teacher
Yup, I once taught at a school back when I was single where the monthly share for a family plan was $1800 a month with a $2.5 k deductible in red Chicago area. That would easily take more than one paycheck for newer teachers. I can only imagine it’s just as bad if note worse in many right to work states!
Anonymous
Original teacher spouse poster here: I hear you. We are in NYC and are very lucky. Tradeoffs are very high COL and the massive bureaucracy that is the NYC DOE.
Anonymous
$54 month, $2050 deductible, $5800 total out of pocket max. There’s also an option of $102/month, $1350 deductible, $3375 out of pocket max. Vision and dental are separate but super cheap.
Anonymous
$510/month for a decent, but not excellent, family plan. Vision and dental are separate insurance companies with separate paycheck deductions.
Anonymous
Ours is about $250 twice monthly, so $500/month. No deductible. Family plan (spouse, 3 kids). $20 office copays, $40 specialist copays, $500 hospital inpatient admission copay of which half is reimbursed by company. $100 ER copay.
Dental and vision are separate deductions.
This is medium/good coverage. I’ve had better, Ive had a lot worse. Our company also offers a lower cost plan with a deductible- I think it’s more like $400/mo and a $1500 or so deductible. It basically comes down to if you are going to hit the deductible anyway (we always do…3 young kids!) you buy the more expensive monthly plan and don’t have to worry about FSA reimbursements. If you don’t think you’ll hit the deductible the other version is a better deal. Coverage is the same.
AnonInTX
If you are trying to decide whether you want to buy your employer’s health insurance, the best strategy is to look at your actual alternative options. States all have different requirements and so many tiny things (deductible, OOP max, copays vs coinsurance for basic things like dr’s visits and labs, Rx coverage and costs, network of docs and hospitals) can make health insurance expenses vary wildly. Look at purchasing an individual plan and, if you have one, look at getting covered under your spouse’s plan. When looking at individual plans, I think the new federal laws that are part of ACA require all plans to include maternity and mental health coverage but I’m not 100% certain. I know that pre-ACA it was not possible to purchase an individual plan with either of those–I actively tried in 2010. I did purchase an individual non-ACA plan in 2017 and had coverage for both. I’m now (2018 and 2019) under an ACA plan that is identical to the non-ACA plan–the only difference is which website I used to choose and purchase the plan. FWIW, I’m in Texas.
Anon
$45 a month, high deductible plan. So things like non-preventive doctor visits (around $100) and prescriptions aren’t covered until deductible is met. But I don’t have any conditions that require regular meds or visits, and I have an HSA set up for the random one-off situations.
Anonymous
$0 for single (employer pays 100%), approximately $600/mo if I added spouse, $600/kid(s), or $1100/spouse+kid(s).
$5,000 deductible, but we have copays in the $15-100 range for prescriptions and routine visits, so the deductible is largely a concern for procedures and tests.
Dental and vision are separate. I go without–the math works out better to pay cash for me.
Alice
What do you wear to a first round interview at a more experimental / innovative part of a tech company? (Not Apple / Google . . . . older than those). It’s also a cross between a first round interview and as they put it, “come in so we get to know you”.
Anonymous
Geography?
Alice
Chicago
AZCPA
Can the recruiter/talent acquisitions person provide some guidance? I work at a company I’d describe similarly, and we specifically tell candidates business casual (for employees, truly anything goes, from rompers to shorts and flip flops). I wore a color blocked dress and coordinating blazer when I interviewed, and lost the blazer pretty quickly when I arrived.
Alice
Unfortunately there’s no HR person really involved. I’m also going straight to the airport afterwards. I was thinking dark green work pants, a business casual top, and dark colored boots.
(kinda like these pants but dark green and not as tight) https://www.express.com/clothing/women/high-waisted-skinny-pant/pro/07479434/color/DEEP%20PURPLE/e/regular/
AZCPA
In that case I’d scour their website and promo materials to get a sense of how casual and edgy/fashionable they are. While I like the sound of your outfit, it might be too fashion forward. I’d lean toward a non-skinny pant in a more classic color for an interview.
Anon
Does anyone have recommendations for personalized home goods? I need to get a gift for a relative that includes a phrase (6 words, would be 3 lines of 2 words each). Relative is recently retired and will be splitting time between a condo and a camper van, so I’d like it to be practical. I was thinking maybe a mug or a door mat? He doesn’t cook, etc. Hobbies were mostly being active outdoors or being Mr. Fix It but a medical diagnosis and downsizing will limit both of those.
In addition to suggestions of what to get, I’d appreciate suggestions of where to get it and where to get it personalized.
Cb
I haven’t seen it yet so no judge on quality but I had a glass cutting board personalized with an image and some text for my mom’s birthday. Snapfish does some fun housewears stuff.
Anonymous
The doormat doesn’t sound practical with the camper. What about a throw pillow?
Etsy for ideas
DoesntBelongHere
Etsy has lots of this stuff.
Idea
throw blanket.
I did this for a step-grandma-in-law in a nursing home and she loved it.
I think it was through Things Remembered.
Anonymous
Personalizationmall is my absolute favorite website for personalized things. I’ve been ordering from them for 8 years and have ordered countless things ranging from tote bags, house plaques, post-it photo cubes, etc. I can’t rave about them enough – their prices are great and the quality is fantastic.
Just Sayin'...
My friend orders things for our group of girlfriends all time from personalizationmall. Everything is really, really nice and so thoughtful!
cat socks
Uncommon Goods.
anon a mouse
Pillow cases? You could get some nice quality ones and take them to an embroidery shop in your town to do custom work.
Anon
I know it’s not the fountain of youth or anything, but do any of you take apple cider vinegar, garlic or some other remedy on a daily or regular basis? I’m still young but am trying to set myself up well to be healthy later in life (yes, I exercise, eat fairly well, drink water, sleep enough, wear sunscreen and hardly ever drive) but was wondering if anyone did anything like this. Anecdotally, my grandfather who drank ACV and ate garlic lived to 94 (he also did all of the things I do above, except limited driving).
Anonymous
Nope.
tesyaa
Anecdotally, my father is 95 and was extremely healthy until coronary problems a few years ago. Mentally still 100% and still physically mobile, though less active. He has always restricted calorie intake, eaten little red meat, and avoided carcinogens like charred, grilled food. Doesn’t take any weird or unproven remedies.
Anon
Nope. Counter-anecdata: my grandmother who takes piss poor care of herself is still ticking at 96. It’s the running family joke that she actively takes part in.
Anon
Your best bet for advice on this is to see an integrative medicine doctor who will look at your entire body of health, lifestyle, life goals, etc. to give you recommendations to heal existing maladies and prevent potential ones based on your lifestyle. This I think is a better option than a PCP who generally treats rather than prevents or a specialist who is trained to focus on their specialty. And better than a holistic doctor because they base their recs on studies, blood work, and medical school training.
Anonymous
I don’t do vinegar but I do try to have a spoonful of live sauerkraut every couple days – it’s supposed to help your gut, which in turn helps lots of other things. Needs to be the refrigerated kind, but it lasts forever.
Anon
I take a probiotic twice a day, but I imagine sauerkraut offers the same benefits.
Anon
ACV and garlic aren’t dietary supplements that I’d 100% go to, but there are proven supplements that don’t necessary extend longevity but deter illnesses that will take you out, specifically ones that focus on anti-inflammatory properties (ex. turmeric), natural antioxidants (blueberries), promote good gut bacterial balance (ex. fermented foods and avoiding foods that irritate your bowels), avoiding alcohol and potential carcinogens (I generally look to EU banned food substances for this, the U.S. is too lax), eating fish without high mercury potential. Basically just balance your eating habits in favor of health promoting foods, keep exercising, and use standard precaution in your daily life.
Anon
I think it’s the same thing as eating well, but I try to eat berries, a green vegetable, an orange vegetable, and at least two more fruits/vegetables per day.
Leah
You hardly ever drive? What does that have to do with aging?
pugsnbourbon
I read that in one of two ways: a) she walks instead of driving, making her more physically active overall or b) she doesn’t drive, which puts her at a lower risk of injury during a car accident that is harder to recover from/results in a cascade of other issues. I think it’s more likely A.
Anon
Living long enough to have to worry about aging, I suspect.
Life Insurance Quote Question
PolicyGenius quoted me $635/year for a $1 million, 25 year policy. After physical and labs, I was requoted at $1,032.45 annually for the same policy. This feels like a big swing, but I’m not entirely sure…
Evidently the data I put in the computer at first quote – family history, etc – put me in a Tier 2 (of 16) health grade. I was downgraded to Tier 4 after labs/physical. It’s still considered a strong rating, but puts me in the “standard expectancy” ribbon versus the earlier “exceptional expectancy” – it is what it is. I just want to gut check. .. does that swing in premium seem right? Is there any way to benchmark this?
anonamouse
How old are you?
OP
34
Veronica Mars
Just went through this. Policy genius does quote at the Preferred Plus/Preferred rate for most people. If you’re not sure, go to Zander Insurance. On their quote site, it lets you select the rate, so you can compare apples to apples. If you need to, call your agent at Policy Genius and ask them to convert your Tier # into one of the 4 standard insurance categories– Preferred Plus, Preferred, Standard Plus or Standard. Or maybe there’s a conversion chart out there. Then you can double check everything. It’s very very hard to get into the Preferred Plus category, so don’t feel too bad.
OP
Ha! Thanks. It matches to the CENT the new quote I was given.
I’m really frustrated with Policygenius in general. They told me 4 weeks ago I was being repriced but refused to tell me what the new price was as they reviewed my underwriting. Then I was told the review was done and I’d get a call tomorrow. Then tomorrow. And, then, no really I promise, tomorrow. Here we are four weeks later, with the same bad news that I pointedly asked for a month ago. Just really, really poor communication.
I work in brokerage and underwriting – different field, but the process and value-add we bring as brokers is identical. I’m not mad at the increase in price – I can afford it and I’ve now gut checked the price change using Zander. I’m just not sure I want to give them my business. Am I SOL if I want to stick with the provider (PacLife) but use another broker or go direct?
Veronica Mars
That sucks to hear about their communication. I just did my physical through them and I’m waiting to get to the underwriting stage. You’d think they’d be chomping at the bit to get you to sign. So a few things– what I learned through them during my initial call was that they were going to submit me to the agency they thought was best for my health condition, and if I didn’t like that quote, they could talk with me and shop me to another agency without going through another health check. So I’d ask about that. Now, if they’re dragging their feet or being overall annoying, you’re also able to pull out now and go through another broker (like Zander) or you could go to an agency that doesn’t participate through PolicyGenius (like Northwestern Mutual). If I were in your shoes, I’d go to Northwestern Mutual and request one of their local agents give you a call. I bet they’re much hungrier, can give you more info, and you could ask if they would need to do another health check. It would be annoying if you went through Zander or NWM and had to do another exam, but think about the length of the policy here– 25 years! It may be annoying but worth it. Hopefully mine runs smoothly.
Anon
Baselayer question: I would like to ask for a quality baselayer top for Christmas that is preferably not synthetic. I looked at smartwool, but the 150 is now partly synthetic and the 250 people say has changed so that the quality is sub-par (shirt starts pilling right away). I feel like it can be so hard to find true quality as retailers continually change up materials and manufacturers, so I’d really appreciate any recommendations. If it helps, I live in a cold-winter climate and I am trying to find a few pieces that will help me be outside and enjoy the winter without getting chilled so quickly.
Vicky Austin
I also live in a super cold latitude and am asking for a new set of Winter Silks long johns for Christmas (have worn them all my life). According to the website, they are 100% silk. I don’t remember them pilling except after a few years of abuse (I used to wear them to go skiing every dang weekend for a while there).
Torin
I think Icebreaker still makes everything 100% Merino. They’ve always been a little pricier than Smartwool, but since Smartwool is changing their fabrics I think it’s worth it now.
Anon
I have some Kathmandu wool tops that have held up very well. I bought them abroad, but they ship to the US. Also, I haven’t tried their other stuff, but I have wool panties from Ibex that are very nice. My Smartwool tops all have gotten small holes near seams in them with light use, which is very disappointing. I’m not buying them anymore.
Sarabeth
I’ve had luck with Patagonia and Icebreaker for merino base layers.
Anonymous
Just throwing this out there – I have synthetic long underwear that is 20 years old and still going strong. I think it is Duofold brand? Yes, they have pills, but they are warm and no one sees them. Synthetic fibers can be much more durable than some natural fibers. If wool is soft enough to not be scratchy, it tends to be a shorter/finer fiber, which tend to be less durable. Silk long underwear is also not very durable in my experience, although very nice while it lasts.
Anon
Thanks everyone!
MJ
Buy Athleta’s polartec pants (no snow) or leggings (to wear under snow pants). They’re both life-changing. So warm and stretchy. Come in Petites, Plus Tall, Reg. Da bomb. Worth the price…promise.
Anon
Under armour
Uniqlo heat tech
Horse Crazy
What would you buy my dad for Christmas? He is pretty outdoorsy – he fly fishes a lot (I usually get him an Orvis gift card). He doesn’t drink, doesn’t smoke, and is generally a grinch. He lives with my aunt, who gets him Tommy Bahama shirts that he hates. He likes desserts, but mostly homemade. He is a financial advisor and he likes the Yankees and the SF Giants, but he doesn’t like team shirts or jerseys or memorabilia or anything. He hates Christmasy things and cutesy things in general. I already bought him chocolates in the shape of fishing stuff, which he may or may not think is amusing, but at least it’s chocolate, and I need more ideas. Gah.
anonamouse
Does he have a good fishing hat (with SPF fabric and the flaps to cover his neck)? Sunglasses?
Could he use a new portable cooler/beer coozies for fishing days?
Does he cook his own desserts? Some fancy ingredient, like really nice vanilla or ridiculous sprinkles could be fun. (Sprinkles in Yankee team colors?)
Vicky Austin
Your dad sounds like my dad, who also hates team merchandise (despite having lots of teams he staunchly roots for), cutesy Christmas stuff, and being shopped for in general. My gift for him this year is a new toiletry bag from Duluth Pack (you can buy outdoorsy colors like green and hunters’ orange), because his current one is as old as I am. I managed to get that idea from my much more helpful mother, though, so I can offer no advice on how to pick grinchy dad brains.
Would your dad want to actually go to a baseball game? If you could spring for that, that might be fun, and then the fishing chocolates will be like “hey, here’s something for you to open for the Christmas Experience (TM), but my real gift to you is even better!”
Anon
Do you live close enough to either NYC or SF that you could get him Giants or Yankees tickets? If you don’t live near either of those cities, maybe there’s a minor league team in the organization near by? Or spring training tickets if you’re closer to that?
Does he like to read? Maybe a book about the team or a biography of a player or manager? I’m a Phillies fan so not up on your dad’s teams but I’d imagine that there’s some good books about the Yankees/Joe DiMaggio/Lou Gehrig/Mickey Mantle, etc. Maybe there are fishing books too?
Anon
If he’s generally bigger in stature, try a Duluth Trading Company item. The fire hose shirts, jackets, and pants are a big hit with “outdoorsy” guys in my life.
Senior Attorney
I say this every year, but I got my probably-about-your-dad’s-age husband an electronic weather station to put on the roof and he loves it.
But I also agree that going to a game with him would be the best gift of all.
Ms B
New fishing vest or rod case? Some custom flies (if you know what he goes out to catch)? Extra warm socks for inside waders and some foot warmers?
Anon
Nothing? Sounds like he doesn’t care that much.
Leatty
A pass to state parks so he can go fishing in various parks?
Anonymous
A good coffee mug/thermos for early fishing morning? Do you have kids? If yes, have them make ornaments.
Also, if he’s somewhere where he fishes when it’s cold, fishing gloves. My dad fishes salt water in New England and loves them.
Anonymous
Lately I’ve been really scatterbrained and disorganized. Staying on top of everything at work, but everything else is a struggle. I’m constantly losing my keys, leaving the house without my phone and having to go back for it, misplacing my sunglasses, misplacing my phone somewhere in my house, etc. One solution I’ve come up with is switching from my black hole Longchamp bag that I’ve used for 5 years to a backpack, my Everlane Commuter Backpack is on its way. Any other tips on how to stay on top of my stuff? Especially my keys…
Anonymous
I’m guessing you don’t need your keys or sunglasses inside your house. So when you walk in the door, put them in a designated drop zone every time (hook, basket, whatever). I can’t help with losing your phone because I do that. It’s especially annoying since I keep mine on vibrate most of the time so I can’t call it to find it.
Anon
Try Tile. They allow your keys, wallet and phone to talk to each other, so that when you lose one item you can use the others to find it for you. Works great for H.
Anonymous
For me, keys go in one of two places–if I am out of the house, they get clipped in my purse. The second I get home, they get hung on a hook by the door. This is the first thing I do when I walk in. I have way too many other things to remember to try and remember a million different places I could have put my keys down. Now it is just automatic–hang on the hook. Sunglasses always go back in their case in my purse when I take them off. Phone is harder, but I try to keep it either upstairs on the nightstand or downstairs on the counter. It helps that both places have chargers so I can plug it in, but I still misplace it sometimes.
C2
I think switching to a more structured bag will help. I was having this problem and don’t have a spot immediately inside my door for a bowl, so I bought a pretty little hook similar on etsy for my keys, and hung it immediately inside my door under the light switch. Similar to these: https://etsy.me/2Tuj6PZ
I don’t lose sunglasses but it’s because I’m either wearing them, or they are in their case in my bag. As far as the phone, I just repeat “keys, wallet, cell phone”and glance to make sure I have everything as I leave the house.
Juliska
I’m a bus commuter, so I have several backpacks and also Le Pliage totes, but I use a handbag organizer inside the totes. My main backpacks have lots of pockets. Everything, including sunglasses, phone wallet, keys, tissues, etc., is assigned to a specific location/pocket inside the bag or backpack. They live in that bag (except for obvious stuff like charging the phone) until I switch to a different bag. And then, once again, everything goes to its assigned location. I’m a little obsessed with interior bag organization!
anon
These three things have been key for me: 1) a Tile for my phone and keys, 2) a huge keychain on my keys, 3) a totally unstylish but highly functional Baggalini tote bag that I got at TJ Maxx for $30. I also got a new car earlier this year that has keyless start, so rarely having to take my keys out of my bag has cut down tremendously on misplacing them.
Anon for this
I posted at the end of last week about my husband deciding he wants a divorce. We are moving forward with a divorce, although I am heartbroken. We are trying to be as civil as possible because we do still respect and love each other. Has anyone actually been able to maintain a civil relationship and continue to be friends post-divorce? I am hopeful we can do so but it seems so difficult. Sorry to make this a multiple post issue, but I really value this community.
Anon
I don’t know any details of the relationship/the divorce, etc. but I was at a wedding last weekend where the bride’s stepfather’s ex-wife was in attendance. Apparently she does holidays, vacations, etc with her ex-husband and their adult kids and her ex-husband’s current wife and current wife’s family. Not very helpful since I don’t know details, but it can happen!
Been There
I’m sorry to hear this, but you will come out on the other side. I sometimes kept repeating to myself, “The only way out is through.” That helped me a lot on the really bad days because it helped me focus on just getting through and not berating myself for feeling terrible. It also helped me that I had some friends who had been through difficult divorces who came out on the other side 2,000,000% happier (though it took a while for the happiness to surface).
We remained civil through the process, I think partially because he felt guilty about how it all went down. (To summarize my comment last week–He said he didn’t think it was working after 12 years, but he eventually admitted there was another woman.) I have no desire to remain friends, of course. I do have one friend who doesn’t have kids but is still ok friends with her ex husband. Honestly, for me, I’m just not sure what I’d get out of a friendship with him. I’ve got lots of other friends, and our relationship was different from my friendships in a way that I didn’t want only a friendship without the other parts.
cbackson
Captain Awkward has some great advice on this. One thing I’d say: even if you will be friends some day, don’t try to be friends now. That is likely going to make it hard for you to grieve as you want to, to prevent you both from making a full emotional separation from one another, and put your ex-spouse in the position of trying to comfort you (which isn’t something that an ex should be doing). You can hope that you will be friends in the future, but for now, focus on building a life where he is not going to be part of your emotional support system.
Senior Attorney
This. The developmental task you are facing right now is to break the attachment to your about-to-be-former husband and your about-to-be-former life. When I left my second husband I thought we would be friendly and I was heartbroken that he maintained total radio silence, but in retrospect I feel like that was the very best thing he could have done because it helped me with that very hard task. And I haven’t seen him since the final court hearing and if I never see him again it will be too soon.
That said, I’m 25-plus years on from my first divorce (from the father of my son) and we took a family vacation together when our son got back from serving in Japan with the Marines, he was at my wedding two years ago, he and his sister are coming to my house for Thanksgiving this week, and we (my husband and son and I) are going to their town to spend Christmas with them. He and his sister sent my husband a birthday card that said “to our brother-in-law” and “we are happy you are in our family.” So yes, it can happen but it takes a long long time.
Ellen
This makes alot of sense. It is very tramatic to get divorced from someone you have had alot of s-x with over the years and have kids with, but you can do it, and you have the power of the HIVE behind you to get you through the rough spots. I can only imageine the pain you are feeling, as I was NOT even married to my ex, and we split up over 5 years ago and I still hurt over it. But the HIVE was here for me and I think sympathized with the fact that my ex was a schlub and that I was better off w/o him then with him. So here I am, 37 and childless and with no boyfreind, but still happy that I do not have that schlub to clean up after every day! FOOEY on that!
AZCPA
Yes, but…not for a long while after. I have a couple of friends who divorced and are now friends with their former spouse. Not “hang out every weekend” friends, but enough to comfortably be at events with mutual friends, or call if they need help with something serious.
A few things that will make a difference, like civil, fair divorce proceedings where neither party is taken advantage of; letting someone walk all over you doesn’t lead to friendship later. Also, lots of space and time to process and move past the divorce – like any breakup, you can’t go from together to platonic friends immediately.
Unicorn
Unicorn here, divorced when kids were 5 & 7, they’re now in high school & college. It was so civil we shared a lawyer. Truth.
If there were no kids there’d be no reason to engage as shared friends are limited.
Over the years we have shared holidays (good with a time limit) and once took a cross county trip (bad!).
Best of luck to you. Best advice I was given during the process was “be adults for the sake of your children”.
NOLA
My minister said, during his sermon yesterday, that his ex-wife, who has been remarried for about 5 years, invited him to Thanksgiving this year. I think it was a bit of a surprise because they hadn’t really remained friends, but it’s been a lot of years and it allows him to have Thanksgiving with his kids. He was both happy to have Thanksgiving with his kids and happy that she felt comfortable inviting him. But again, I think there were acrimonious years in the middle.
Anonymous
My ex-h and I are great friends (still send each other funny cat videos, etc) and my now-husband is great friends with his ex-wife (she sends him videos of their pets). No kids in either relationship. Neither divorce was bitter – all parties just realized things weren’t fantastic and could be better.
Portia
Yes. My husband and I have been divorced for almost two years, no kids, and we’re still friends. Not bffs, but we see each other at social events and schedule occasional dog park dates so our puppies can see each other and we genuinely enjoy catching up. We’ve met each other’s new partners and he’s someone I would feel comfortable calling if I were stranded somewhere and my boyfriend or best friend couldn’t help. We parted on positive terms (he wanted kids and I didn’t, but otherwise our relationship was really great) and had a low key divorce.
We have childless friends who divorced even more amicably – they legit are best friends, travel internationally together, own property together, etc. They were best friends since childhood, never dated anyone else, got married because everyone was expecting them to, left their conservative religion together in their mid-twenties, and then the husband came out as gay and they dissolved their marriage.
Anon
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. It’s not exactly what you asked, but I would strongly encourage you to each get your own attorney. I have seen a number of divorces go sideways after trying to “be cordial” and cut costs by using one attorney. Find two attorneys who have worked together in the past and who aren’t the aggressive bulldog-types (those attorneys have their place, but it sounds like your divorce is not it). Best of luck. And, I only speak for myself, but don’t apologize for the multi-post question/advice seeking. It’s part of what makes this a community instead of a random collection of internet people.
Senior Attorney
I couldn’t agree more with all of this. Especially about the two attorneys who can work well together.
Anonymous
Friends is very different than civil. You don’t have time to be friends now. You need to take care of yourself.
Anonymous
Yeah. Also, why do you want to be friends with this guy? He ended your marriage abruptly and refused counseling. Doesn’t sound like something a friend would do. Civil for your kids, yes. Friends, no.
AIMS
My parents did this successfully. I am forever grateful. Hugs to you.
anon
I started a new project with a new manager recently and she got really angry with me last week for reasons that are partially unclear and partially in my view unreasonable. There’s clearly something else going on here that I am unaware of. I hear good things about this person, so I don’t think it’s just that they’re unreasonable. She came in this morning a little brusque at me, and I’m trying to hit reset on the relationship and melt the ice a bit. What would you do?
Idea
It is up to her (bc she is The Project Manager) to hit reset on The Relationship.
You hit reset on You, and divorce the personal from the professional. She was not brusque AT YOU. She was brusque, period. OK. So keep your distance, keep your head down, do your work, do it well. That is what she wants from you.
Anonnnnnnn
+1 it’s business, not personal!
Anon
Has anyone been to Lake Como? We are planning a trip to Italy next year. DH really wants to do Lake Como, and it does actually make sense as part of the trip. (Venice, Florence, Lake Como). I’m having trouble figuring out what there is to actually do there other than look at the lake.
Sarabeth
Boat rides, hiking, eating. There are plenty of beautiful old churches in the area, though it won’t match Venice or Florence for that stuff. The landscapes are spectacular, though.
Anonymous
I mean, it’s like any other part of Italy – awesome food and wine, beautiful cathedrals, pretty scenery, picturesque little towns. There isn’t a lot to “do” but I don’t think there’s really a lot to do in most parts of Italy. It’s just a place you relax and soak up the scenery and food.
anon
I went to Lake Como with my parents about 10 years ago, and to be honest, we were all bored. You’re right, there really wasn’t much to do besides look at the lake. I would spend some time in Tuscany tasting wine and sight-seeing (from Siena and/or a smaller town like Montepulciano), or add another big city (Rome?), or hike the Cinque Terre if you want nature/hiking, or head down to the Amalfi Coast/Sorrento/Capri and take some time to check out Pompeii and Herculaneum. I’ve done all these things at one point or another, and basically, I’d pick almost any other major tourist destination in Italy over Lake Como.
Seafinch
Same as any small European town; beautiful scenery, lovely old town, lots of great restaurants and day trips to places like Bellagio for silk shopping/browsing etc. The added bonus is swimming, nice water location for recreation. We stayed with out ten month old at a series of little villaettas owned by an American and it was great. We walked around a lot, too the local “bus” ferries to the little villages for lunch, shopped for local ingredients to cook in our kitchenette.
OP
Ok this has been helpful. I’m not necessarily opposed to going somewhere that doesn’t have a million things to do for the last place we go since we will be in Florence/Tuscany and Venice first. The goal was to go somewhere a little more chill last since on our last two international trips we are generally over sightseeing on the last day or so and just wander around whatever city we are in. Sounds like Lake Como would work well for doing that before a flight from Milan but that we really probably only need one full day there (and another day in Florence or Venice).
*We’re only in Italy for 8 full days, so adding on Rome or Amalfi doesn’t make a ton of sense even though I’d love to go. I also desperately want to go to Cinque Terre but it seems out of the way and does not seem chill at all unfortunately.
AIMS
If you really have your heart set on CT, you can certainly make it work from Florence either by train, car or bus. I’m not a fan of guided tours but they have companies that will take you there and back, but you can opt to be on your own during the time there.
Anonymous
Florence and Venice is more than enough to fill 8 days. Don’t add another place, you won’t see anything except trains.
Anon
This. Did not forget you’ll spend a few days jet lagged on the front end too.
Anon
Last month, I was in Italy for 10 days and did a day trip to CT from Florence with a tour group. I do not recommend seeing CT this way. It was a 2.5 hr bus ride each way, and the schedule we were put on to see each village made it so we could only spend 45 mins in some of them. Overall, we spent a lot of time in transit and it felt too hectic to really enjoy the time. CT is beautiful, and I ran in to another couple who said they were staying at a B&B in the area for 2-3 says, which seems like it was a better way to do the trip so you could take your time and enjoy it. If you only have 8 days in Italy, I strongly suggest tabling CT for another trip rather than trying to do it in one day.
C2
Whether this is a good idea depends on what type of traveller you are, truthfully. Lake Como is incredibly beautiful, would be a nice respite from museum, building, art, history intense Florence. The point there is to relax and experience the lake and villages, but it’s not the only place you can do that, and you don’t need to go halfway across the country to do it. I’d probably save myself a few hours both ways via train (and not have to deal with Milan even for a train change, it’s a city I do not care for) and skip Lake Como in favor of Lake Garda (still beautiful, still backdropped by mountains), adding a stop in Verona for a Romeo and Juliet fix. I would try to spend a few days in between, possibly hitting Ravenna then eating my way through the Emilia-Romagna region (Bologna, Modena, Parma would be on your way). Other ideas: if you like wine, you’re within close reach from Florence, and especially close to the Chianti region and could day trip or overnight out there pretty easily. If you like mountains you could sneak up a bit further into the Dolomites.
Never too many shoes...
Verona is gorgeous for a day of exploring!
Anon
Help me figure out my hair, specifically how to shower at night and not look like I’m hungover in the morning.
My hair is thin, straight, and shoulder length. It does not hold a curl. I cannot go more than 24 hours without washing it without turning into a grease fest. I desperately want to be able to shower at night (young kids at home) but whenever I do, I wake up and my hair looks awful. It has random kinks, it’s flat, and somehow looks greasy or stringy even though it’s not that bad. I try to apply dry shampoo and hairspray to give it some life, but that hasn’t helped.
What am I doing wrong? Or am I doomed to morning showers every day for the rest of my life?
Annie
You can train your hair to be washed every other day instead. It will be rough adjustment period (just plan on lots of ponytails and buns) but IMHO it’s worth it as a mom. After the adjustment period (about a month?) your hair won’t get greasy until it’s hair wash time.
Anonymous
Honestly, I don’t think that this works for everyone. I really wanted it to work, found myself spending a fortune on every dry shampoo, every technique, etc. Ultimately, I remained a morning daily showerer due to fine, thin hair and very oily hair/skin. I’m 48 now. If it were going to change, I had two maternity leaves worth of trial-and-error to figure it out.
Anon
+1
This really doesn’t work for everybody. I have to wash my hair every day.
Anon
+2 – my trick for night washing is to put it in a bun on top of my head soaking wet. It dries about 30% overnight so it’s a fast blowout in the morning and looks fresh/isn’t greasy.
Aquae Sulis
I have thin fine hair and mine has never adjusted either, after years.
Anon
My hair is the same and I find that dying it helps tremendously. It dries it out just enough so that it can absorb all the oil from my head, and dying it makes it look a little thicker and more voluminous. I pick a shade that is slightly lighter than my natural color and do a box at home.
Anon
Do you have time to do a quick damp or dry blow out in the morning? A two minute blast with a round brush and the hair dryer in the morning (sometimes I so a little spritz of water sometimes not) gets out the big kink or two received from sleeping, and another minute blowing the roots while lifting them with one hand helps with the flatness.
Also, have you considered getting a hair cut that works with your lifestyle better? Thin straight and oily with little kids seems screaming for a pixie that is designed to lay down on your head and air dry well.
Anon
If only a pixie would work for me. I have a super round face and unfortunately it just accenuates that I have probably 50 pounds and twice the wrinkles on Ginnifer Goodwin (although she rocks the round face pixie cut so well!)
Anonymous
Have you tried dry shampoo to get a second day out of a wash? It makes a world of difference for my fine hair. Batiste is my favorite cheaper brand, or Klorane if you are feeling flush.
Anon
Maybe I’m not doing it right? I use Batiste dry shampoo. I put it in before I start getting ready, lifting up sections of hair and spraying on the roots then flipping my head over and doing a general spray. Use my fingers to kind of work it through, then let that sit for 20 minutes or so while I get ready. Then brush through my hair and use hairspray in a similar manner to try to fluff it up a bit and add some volume.
Anon
Sounds like you are using it right. You might experiment with other brands. The only one I have liked is Davines. I’ve tried cheap ones and other expensive ones and keep coming back to Davines even though I have to order online now (my stylist switched brands at her salon).
Delta Dawn
My SIL has similar hair to yours and swears by Living Proof dry shampoo. She used to have to wash her hair every morning, and now she can wash at night or even get two days out of it. I have not personally tried it, but she raves about it.
anonymous
I have heard to use dry shampoo on clean, day 1 hair. Like deodorant… we don’t put it on AFTER we smell, but before. I typically use a bit more on day 2, but the initial application on day 1 seems to help tremendously.
Anonymous
Use the dry shampoo before you go to sleep. It absorbs the oil overnight and you wake up with great hair.
Anon
I would try washing hair with shampoo only (no conditioner), no products while wet. Then in the morning you could use something like Drybar’s brush crush to give it more volume and remove the random kinks.
Anon
I have thin strands but thick hair, and it’s a nightmare of limp, stringy and unmanageable if I try to sleep on it wet or unstyled. If I shower at night, I let it dry 90% of the way, blow dry and heat style, using my normal product. Then I put dry shampoo in it, run that in really well with my fingers, and wrap it into a loose bun on top my head while I sleep, and it’s fine in the morning.
Anon
Interesting. What do you use to hold up the loose bun? I tried the bun last night but the pony holder left a kink in my hair right at the top of my scalp, hence my post.
C2
Try the spiral hair ties, the ones that look like a telephone cord! invisibobble is the name brand, but I think the knock offs work just as well. My hair is long enough that I can now spin pin it, but when it was shorter (shoulder length) I had trouble getting it to stay.
Leah
It was designed for curly hair, but I’ve still had success with the pineapple method. You turn your head upside down over a shirt lying on something (like your bed) and then lower onto the shirt, tying the hem and arms like you would a kerchief. YouTube has great videos. Sleeping this way keeps my hair from denting.
anon
The more you wash it, the more oil your hair generates. Take some days to just not wash it — if you don’t have to work this Friday, don’t wash your hair between Wednesday and Monday morning. Just brush it morning and night and rock a ponytail. That should help it slow down oil production, and then I’d make sure to brush it morning and night in the hopes of extending your routine to every-other-day washes.
Anonymous
Have you tried applying dry shampoo at night and giving it more time to absorb at the roots? Coloring it can help too.
For me, the answer has a been a shorter cut so that I can style it faster and that makes the morning shower thing less time consuming.
Mrs. Jones
My hair is similar and just doesn’t sleep well. I have to wash it every morning, despite trying to “train” it and trying different dry shampoos.
Anon
Same here. Same hair type and same need to wash in the mornings or it will never look right. If I shower in the late afternoon or evening, I can maybe get another day out of it with dry shampoo, but it still won’t look quite right.
Tippins
If I wash/dry my hair at night, I’ll pop in 5 or 6 hot curlers in the morning to smooth it and remove dents. It only takes a few seconds and makes a big difference for me.
Anonymous
+1 to hot rollers. It took me a few tries to get them in quickly but now it’s 3-4 minutes to put my hair up while I get ready and 1-2 minutes to take them out.
smiley
A friend of mine has similar hair and uses a hot air brush in the mornings after a night shower to fluff it up a bit and remove any kinks. The single tool is a lot easier/quicker for her to use than a round brush/blow dryer combo.
ValkyrieLawyer
You may also want to try sleeping on a silk pillowcase; I have similar hair and it works wonders when I need to take a night shower and get going early in the morning.
Sunshine
My hair is similar. I find that the oil stays more under control if I follow this process: (1) condition first, (2) shampoo, (3) wrap in towel for about 10-15 min, (4) add mousse, (5) blow dry, mostly with head upside down. I can sleep on it this way and I can typically do a dry shampoo on day 2. Conditioning first made a big difference, as did switching from a 2-in-1 shampoo+conditioner. The mousse also helps a lot with body and oil control
Anonymous
Posting late, but perhaps you will check back — Try a shampoo/conditioner combo that is more texturizing, less moisturizing. Sulfate-free seems to help me. Then dry and flat iron (yes, really, for straight hair) and sleep on a silk pillowcase. This is not foolproof for me, but it is my only chance of waking up with next-day hair. And it will last 2 days for me.
Ralph Lauren Sale
Just FYI for anyone interested – Ralph Lauren is currently having a 30% off sale plus an extra 15% off of outerwear. I just got a great coat for $130.
RR
So I finally bit the bullet on Rothy’s, which showed up at my house on Sunday (2 days after I ordered them). Sweet mother of unicorns and rainbows, how are these shoes so comfortable? I’ve had socks that were less comfortable than these shoes. I want them in all the colors.
For reference, I am normally a 10.5 to 11 in flats, bought an 11 in the pointed toe flat, and it is perfection.
Sunshine
+10000 – I’m shocked. And now I want to buy all of them.
Anonymous
How many ounces of liquids do you all drink each day? I drink a lot of diet soda, tea, decaf coffee, and soda water each day. It’s well in excess of the old 64 ounces number, and yet I still feel dehydrated when it’s cold and dry outside. I’m not diabetic and my exercise is generally 30-60 min of walking several times a week. I understand that even caffeinated beverages do contribute to hydration.
What’s normal for you office workers?
Anonymous
I was hospitalized for dehydration once and they told me that at you have to SUBTRACT for every highly caffeinated beverage like coffee, so if you have 6 glasses of water and 2 cups of full caf coffee, it only counts as 4 glasses of fluids. Decaf coffee, tea (and maybe soda?) have less caffeine, so they’re neutral and don’t add or subtract to your count. If you feel dehydrated you need to drink more.
Anonymous
I drink around 96 oz., but I’ve found that real secret to not feeling dehydrated in dry winter air is a cool mist humidifier. I have a desktop version for work and a larger one at home in my bedroom. It’s great for skin, for my sinuses, and for my hair.
Anon
I aim for 64 ox of water in addition to coffee/tea/seltzer or whatever
anon
Gently, it doesn’t sound like you are drinking enough actual water. Personally, none of the drinks you mentioned actually quench my thirst. Maybe try replacing some of it with actual water? You can muddle some fruit in it if you don’t like plain water.
Anonymous
Seltzer is water, no?
I think I’d feel nauseous if I had to drink 64+ ounces of just water. The tea I drink is Keurig 12 ounces so it’s pretty weak
Idea
What do you mean by you feel dehydrated?
Anonymous
Just kind of low-level thirsty. My fingers swell a bit so my rings are tighter (one way I measure). My urine is a little darker than it should be even with all the liquids
Anon
You need to drink more water.
Anon
150 oz. I heard once that you should aim for at least 1/2 your body weight in oz of water. I’m nowhere near 300 lbs but I work out pretty intensively and live somewhere that’s cold and dry much of the year.
Hydrate
Non-water fluids are not hydrating, or hydrate very poorly. All the diet soda, decaf coffee, and tea are not helping your hydration if you are still thirsty. Drink water. If you still feel thirsty, electrolytes can help. I like lemon/lime (fresh), salty snacks, or some diluted Gatorade (when not working out).
Leah
I start the day with a 20-ounce coffee, then drink 60-80 ounces of water during the workday. No other types of beverages (usually).
Anon
I’m similar. I start with 20 oz of coffee, and then drink at least 64oz of water. Some of that water may be replaced by a cup or two of tea when it’s really cold out. I also drink one diet soda at lunch, which I’m trying to phase out but I’m hooked on the caffeine. I’m down to just a 12 oz can though, so I’ll get there eventually.
Anonymous
Do you change what you eat during the winter? I eat a lot more high-water fresh fruits and vegetables during the warmer months (salads, cucumbers, melon, etc). During the winter, I have to make a conscious effort to choose more balanced foods instead of all the salty carbs.
Panda Bear
During the work day, I have two or three cups of coffee, and then about 48-64 ounces of water. Now that its cold and the heat is on, though, I’m feeling thirstier and my skin is getting dry. More water should help the thirst, but I think I might need to try a small desktop humidifier to help my skin out. Ugh, winter!
Anonymous
My doctor said electrolytes really matter when it comes to staying hydrated (so drinking water all day if you don’t get enough electrolytes and salt will not make you feel hydrated).
already at work; fashion crisis
Static electricity is making my artsy, oversize, silk blouse cling like saran wrap. It looks both stupid and less modest than I would prefer. I’ve tried grounding myself out on metal doorways, and taking of my shirt in the bathroom and shaking it out–neither helped.
Suggestions?
Anonymous
Lotion your hands and run them inside your blouse
Coach Laura
You could go to the restroom, take off the shirt and liberally apply body lotion to your shoulders, arms, décolleté, stomach and back. Then put the shirt on while the lotion is still a bit damp (but not too damp as to soak through the silk). For the future, I always keep Static Guard spray at my desk for this.
already at work; fashion crisis
Thanks, had no idea lotion would work that way.
Anonymous
Run a metal hanger underneath? There’s usually one in a coat closet somewhere.
Anonymous
Turn the blouse inside out and mist with hairspray. Works wonders with skirts+tights as well.
Anon
Water also helps if you don’t have lotion