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Weekend Open Thread

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Black model wears white top with ruched sides and slightly extended shoulders

Something on your mind? Chat about it here.

Ooh: is this not a perfect top for summer? I'm not usually a fan of crew necks (or the return of the “bay tee!”) but I like the slightly extended shoulders here and the ruched sides. It feels more elegant and drapey somehow — a great elevated tee.

The top is a bestseller at Evereve, where I first spied it, but it's also available at Nordstrom, as well as MichaelStars.com, where they have a TON of colors, some marked as low as $54.

Sales of note for 4/21/25:

  • Nordstrom – 5,263 new markdowns for women!
  • Ann Taylor – 25% off tops & sweaters + extra 40% off sale
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50%-70% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Boden – 10% off new womenswear styles
  • Brooks Brothers – Friends & Family Sale: 30% off sitewide
  • The Fold – 25% off selected lines
  • Eloquii – $29+ select styles + extra 40% off all sale
  • Everlane – Spring sale, up to 70% off
  • J.Crew – Spring Event: 40% off sitewide + extra 50% off sale styles + 50% swim & coverups
  • J.Crew Factory – 40%-70% off everything + extra 70% off clearance
  • Kule – Lots of sweaters up to 50% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – Earth Day Sale: Take 25% off eco-conscious fabrics. Try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Madewell – Extra 30% off sale + 50% off sale jeans
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 50% off last chance styles; new favorites added
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 30% off entire purchase w/Talbots card

264 Comments

  1. Years ago I got a facial where they scraped the fuzzy hairs off my face before doing the rest of the treatments. I’ve noticed now (being older) that I have more fuzzy hair on my face, and even though it’s light colored and not super visible, I’m thinking I should be able to scrape it off myself at home. What kind of tool am I looking for for this? (I don’t even know what word to search for. A scalpel?)

    1. I think you’re looking for a tinkle razor. Tinkle is the brand name, but a lot of different brands sell the same thing.

    2. for search terms, “facial razor” should work

      fwiw, sometimes I just use a (fresh) regular razer and I actually feel like it irritates my skin less than the special face razers

    4. I like doing this every 6 weeks or so. there are a lot of YouTube tutorials to watch. Don’t do the sideburns by your ear! it makes every skin treatment or serum absorb so much better right after.

      1. Why would you not do the sideburns? (As a person without them, it seems like the place I’d start if I did.)

      3. I think all of us have different amounts/types of facial hair, and “sideburns” can definitely be done too.

  2. what store do you feel like you love their entire collection? i never feel like that anymore and wish i did.

    1. I don’t think I’ve ever loved a whole store collection, but I have fashion houses that speak to my style (and that I cannot afford!)

      If I had to replace my entire wardrobe from one store due to some incident, second hand would be my first choice, so Vinted or Ebay.

      If it had to be fast fashion, Uniqlo, &other stories or H&M. Higher end, Me + Em. No limits, Brunello Cucinelli.

      1. i know exactly what you mean and it’s been a long time. i used to feel like if i could it afford it there was no shortage of beautiful stylish things i would want to buy. i don’t feel like that anymore. everything either feels like holly hobbie or post apocalyptic dystopian. very little i want to wear even if i were thinner/taller/richer.

      1. Someone once said that Boden looks like it’s for kindergarten teachers and now I can’t unsee that

        2. I love some of the prints Boden has (esp. right now) but def agree with this take. Like, one print with an otherwise classy and simple outfit could look great. That said, lots of times it looks great from afar and then I zoom in and realize it’s hearts, not polka dots. Or similar. The other issue is that the fabric quality can make something that could have looked elegant into something that looks cheap.

    4. Oh wow, does anyone remember the Tweeds catalog from the late 80s/ early 90s? I wanted EVERYTHING.

      1. I LOVED Tweeds. I wish I had kept this one amazing blouse from back in the day… and all my old J Crew and BR. Regrets.

      2. I still have a Tweeds sweater from 1988 or so. SO thick. I had a dress from them that I wore to bits. You can sometimes find genuine Tweeds vintage on eBay.

    5. I never felt like the clothes were for my life, but the J. Peterman catalog was wonderful daydreaming.

    8. J McLaughlin based on the styles and colors/prints but then I try on their clothes and don’t like the feel of the fabrics

    9. i remember one time in my life right after kids where it was the lands’ end catalog and that was so sad to me

      nowadays maaaaybe me+em. reiss. but i’m nowhere near as slick as that in real life.

    12. For me it’s places like The Fold, where even with unlimited funds my body shape just wouldn’t be flattered by such elegance, or places like Outdoor Research that are completely impractical for my office and weekend library visits lifestyle.

    14. The Fold, Sezane, Reformation (even though their clothes are definitely not made for my body type!).

    16. The Row! I can’t afford even one thing second hand, but I have never seen anything I don’t love.

  3. How do I pose or smile to look better in pictures? I never feel like I look great in pictures. It’s my face and not my body. Like if I smile too much, then my eyes are too tiny. But if I don’t smile enough, then I look like I’m trying too hard to smile for a picture. Is there a formula here?
    I am about to be in a wedding and I know I’ll be in tons of photos. It would be nice to look good in them.

    1. I would ask the wedding photographer if she has any tips. It only needs to be a 30-second conversation.

      1. if this is important to you it is absolutely fixable but will take some time. Take selfies or have a friend do it be conscious of what you are doing, holding your head, how wide your eyes are, how big your smile…. you should begin to see the ones that are better and the ones that are worse. you only mention your face but there are also tips about how to stand, hold your arm etc…. google and get some tips. good luck.

    2. Take a lot of selfies! Most people have a better side or whatnot. I feel like I watched too much America’s Next Top Model and always think of smizing.

    3. Check out The Christine Buzan on IG. She has a ton of tips and tricks on getting good photos. Someone here recommended her when I asked a similar question before my daughter’s wedding 2 years ago. I still look awkward in the photos, but they are a 100% improvement on how awkward I normally look in photos. Lots of little things are easy to incorporate.

  4. My husband’s retiring in May and we’re throwing him a huge (100+ people), casual party. The star dish – at his request – is his favorite fried chicken from this little mom & pop place. The mom & pop place also does a great potato salad. Throw in watermelon slices. What else? Green salad? This is not a DIY undertaking, so it needs to be something we can buy from a store and the buffet attendant can handle. Fancy cookies and cupcakes are coming from friends who make each respectively. Thanks.

    2. A green salad and cheese and crackers – do a cheese board and crackers in a separate basket for people who have gluten issues.

      Sounds like a fun evening. Congratulations to your DH!

    3. Either cornbread or biscuits with butter or honey butter. Coleslaw or green salad. Vegetarian mac and cheese. Add baked beans, preferably vegetarian, if you want another dish.

    4. Something for vegetarians. Consider a pasta salad or mac and cheese.

      Something for the gluten-free crowd.

      For a hundred people, please don’t be afraid of having too many dishes. Consider having a BBQ joint do the other dishes – maybe a gluten-free BBQ meat, cornbread, green beans, mac and cheese.

    5. I would suggest having something vinegary or citrusy to cut through the rest. That could be something like a cucumber and tomato salad or just pickles or a green salad with a lemon dressing (like maroulosalata could work though the feta is salty so I might change up the ingredients).
      I am also a fan of baked beans or Texas caviar with this spread.

    6. I would want something vaguely like a vegetable. Cole slaw gets my vote. Green salads are too hard to eat if you’re not sitting at a table, which I doubt 100 people will be doing.

    7. i don’t know why but apple pie or a triple berry pie feels like it would go well here.

      agree with the mac n cheese or bean salad ideas. grilled corn on the cob?

    8. With a group that big, you need to have another type of main dish. There will be a significant amount of people who don’t want to or can’t eat fried chicken.

    9. Corn on the cob although it doesn’t set as well. over time A lentil/chickpea side or salad/grilled mushrooms/something for vegans. Pulled pork or ribs (although you’d probably run out).

  5. We decided to get an aquarium with fish for our home. My 10yo is planning to take care of the fish and feed them, and I will be the backup. We do not have other pets but have a busy lifestyle with two careers and active kids. What is a good, easy complete aquarium kit with all the accessories, and “starter” fish that are easy to keep alive? We went to Petco and checked out the options but don’t have strong preferences. Our neighborhood website also sometimes has people selling fish or 10 gallon aquariums (but not with the other accessories).
    Secondly, if and when we travel, do you suggest getting any type of automatic feeder system? My child’s friend has also offered to take the fish if we ever travel (we do the same for their pet), but I’m not sure how easy it is going to be to transport the whole thing.

    1. Do you have a local, non-chain pet store in your region? I feel like small, specialized retail stores excel with helping people with projects like this.

      1. Yes! Your child is going to need a place to ask questions and learn about things like introducing new fish to the tank, keeping the tank clean, changing water, etc.

        There are also people all over YouTube helping with this. There might even be a local hobby group your child could tap into.

      2. +1
        Keeping fish is pretty involved to learn but easy to maintain once you get the hang of it.

        You have to cycle the tank for a couple of weeks before you add fish or you will kill them and give up.

  6. This is not what I would call the perfect summer top. My perfect summer top is cut much higher on the shoulder so my shoulder muscles are visible. Paradoxically, a “muscle tee” armhole like this actually obscures the shoulder muscles and makes my upper arms look fat.

    1. I was just thinking that I rarely wear t-shirts – if it’s warm enough for that, I’m always going to reach for a tank top. I work hard for my shoulders and want people to see them!

    2. This varies wildly by body type. I love the elongated line that this sort of cap-sleeve-but-not style does for me.

      1. same! I like my shoulders too but I just always feel sophisticated and suave in sleeves like these

  7. Parents of college students and young adults, how are you thinking about your children’s long-term economic and career prospects, and has your thinking on supporting adult children shifted recently? My husband and I have been self-supporting since our teens. It was our dream as parents to pay for our daughter to attend the college of her choice, something our parents didn’t do for us, so that she could graduate debt-free, move out on her own, and make her way in the world. She is studying a respectable but not particularly lucrative career at a very good school with excellent job placement connections and statistics in her field, so she is setting herself up well for her job search in comparison with her high school peers. She has tried and rejected other fields where she could earn more. Even in those higher-paid fields, I don’t see how an entry-level salary would pay for rent, car insurance, health care, and retirement plan contributions given the recent increases in the cost of living. We have very ordinary jobs with moderate incomes and have sacrificed most normal middle-class lifestyle expectations such as a nice home, vacations, etc. to put her through college. Our daughter does not want to move home after college to save money, even just for a few years, and we don’t think it would be good for her or for us. Are we destined to continue financially supporting her if we want her to have a safe and clean place to live and to be able to pay for health care and save for her retirement? How long can our society allow income inequality and the cost of living to rise before the whole system collapses? And what will become of our kids when that happens?

    1. You are not “destined” to support her. If she isn’t making enough on her own, she can get a second job, live at home, have roommates, or be supported by you for a set period of time.

    2. Nope. She can get a job and live with roommates in a kinda dingy apartment for a while like all of us did. She can thankfully stay on your insurance until 26 if yours doesn’t have any and she will scrimp and save and figure it out. Please let her.

      2. Yeah, let her stay on your insurance until 26 and otherwise she will have to live modestly and make it work.

        I would also say that the cost of living isn’t insane everywhere. I’m in a small Midwest city and I know multiple people who support families of 4-5 on a mid-five figure salary. Sure, they’re not jetting off to Europe on a regular basis or buying designer clothing, but they have fine/normal lives and own single family homes and working cars. People like my husband and I, who barely clear six figures each, feel filthy rich here. We own a large home in an amazing school district that we’ve renovated several times, we travel internationally all the time and we can put our kids in whatever camps and activities they want. Chicago is quite a bit more expensive than my city, and even there you can still have a very comfortable life on a mid-high five figure salary, especially if you have roommates or a partner/spouse to share expenses with. Yeah, not everyone can live in the Bay Area or LA or Boston or NYC but there are dozens and dozens of US cities where life is much more affordable.

    3. Maybe I’m callous, but financing a child’s lifestyle ends with graduation (especially if they don’t want to move home). It’s GOOD to learn to live on a shoestring budget, in suboptimal conditions – you shouldn’t expect to live like your middle age parents do. “Kids these days” seem to have fewer and fewer opportunities to confront adversity and build resilience (largely due to parental snowplowing/helicoptering). I hear your concern, but absent her living in a cardboard box in the street, the most loving thing you can do is let her stand on her own two feet and build that self-confidence. You are there as a backstop if things truly go awry (but she doesn’t need to explicitly know that!)

      There was a recent, horrifying NYMag feature on how much parents are subsidizing their adult children’s lives. Don’t be those people.

    4. Agreed with above comments. It’s ok to be broke and struggle the first few years of your career. I work with a lot of 22 year old paralegals whose parents are paying their rent and they are getting sweetgreen for lunch every day and complaining about their doormen. I don’t think it would be a bad thing for them to learn to pack their lunch and live in a walk up with roommates.

      1. I’m not talking about subsidizing a doorman building and Sweetgreen. I’m talking about how on her expected entry-level salary her take-home pay will be maybe $1,000 a month if she contributes to retirement and an HSA. That doesn’t even cover rent.

        1. It might cover rent with roommates, in a less desirable area of town? With my first job out of college I contributed $100/month to retirement…she doesn’t need to put in a ton at the beginning to start building the habit. And she definitely doesn’t need to save any more than an offered match. This is budgeting 101 – you have your ideals, and then you have reality, and you have to make it work with hard tradeoffs. Better to learn that at 21 than later.

          1. There’s no where in the US where $333 (ie taking the traditional financial advice to limit housing cost to 1/3 of income) covers rent, although there are cities where $600 can cover a room in a shared house in a non desirable area — if you look hard (ie you can’t count on it).

            I would encourage your daughter to be VERY sure she’s ok with the financial tradeoffs of this career.

            (but also, is $1000/month after tax really accurate?)

          2. The traditional advice doesn’t necessarily hold for an entry level salary – again, ideals vs reality. That’s a goal to work towards but if she needs to spend 50% or 60% on rent to start out, then she basically cuts back/out other areas.

            But same question…she’s contributing way too much pretax money to something if she’s netting $12K a year

          3. I don’t think it’s common to start maxing out retirement at age 22. Contributing something is ideal, but maxing out is very different than contributing a small amount. My husband and I didn’t even start contributing until around 30 (I was in law school on loans until 25 and then paying down high interest rate debt, he was on very small grad student/postdoc stipends) and we are now early 40s and have a $2M+ balance in retirement funds and almost $3M net worth if you include the value of our house and except for a very brief time when I was in Big Law our household income has never been above $200k. You really don’t have to max out retirement at 22, and I don’t think it’s at all typical except for people from very rich families or people who go into hugely lucrative fields like finance straight out of college. Even now we don’t max out our HSA contributions…

        2. Yes, that is how it works! You get roommates and you live frugally. Welcome to life in your early to mid-20s. People have been making it work like this forever.

        3. She should be contributing less to retirement then, just max out the HSA and contribute up to the match of a 401(k) or something minimal if there isn’t a match. It makes no sense for you and your husband to subsidize her retirement at the expense of your own (esp. if that might mean you need her support later on). Give her good advice, help her build good habits, and take care of your own. needs.

          1. Agree, or she just doesn’t save for retirement until she’s making more and can afford it. At such a young age it’s not an essential expense, unlike rent.

          2. Yeah, this is a very privileged idea. Neither my husband nor I could contribute to any voluntary things like retirement or HSA accounts until well into our 30s. We didn’t come from white collar households (but they made juuuust enough that we didn’t qualify for tuition assistance beyond student loans), we didn’t work in lucrative fields right out of college, we were broke grads and shit was expensive. Putting money aside for retirement while not being able to afford rent means you better be in someone’s good graces.

          2. Or possibly move to a less expensive area/town. People are not entitled to live wherever they want

        5. Well, tell her that she’s educating herself into poverty. Be very explicit about what life is going to look like. And then if she wants to be poor, let her.

          She has other choices. She’s not picking them. That’s fine. She’s an adult.

          1. Yep. She wants to be a teacher. Starting salary in her target state is in the low $40K range. We could not afford to max retirement contributions for both spouses until we were over 40 and now that the regime is wrecking the market we are going to be screwed, so she will need to max retirement from day 1. Add health insurance premiums and max HSA to pay the deductible and then pay income taxes and basically nothing is left. Yay capitalism and self-reliance. We tried desperately to convince her to choose a more lucrative career, but she is not the kind of person who can sit at a computer all day and she really is called to teach.

          2. the math just isn’t mathing at $1k take home. If you have a college degree, you should find a job that pays more than minimum wage.

          3. OP, I plan to teach…after my retirement savings are done. Being a teacher will always be there. Compound interest won’t be. Tell her to go make her money now so she can afford to be a teacher from 40 on.

          4. Teachers have pensions and don’t have to save for retirement as aggressively as normal people.

            Also the average teacher salary in my LCOL state is $60k. If she can’t make more than $40k in a low cost of living area, I think she needs to consider a different area. If she has a spouse or partner earning a comparable amount, they’ll have a household income in the six figures and will be more than fine in most LCOL or MCOL cities. She may need to live with roommates or very modestly in a studio until she’s partnered. Millions of people make this work.

          5. OK, 40k is a way different situation than 12k. No, she can’t max retirement & HSA – I think at that age most people cross their fingers and hope they don’t get sick (although the indignation this board sometimes points at people who don’t go to doctors makes me laugh in broke-millennial. It’s expensive!). Neither of you can control what the stock market will be like 50 years from now.

          6. Teachers have pensions *for now*. I absolutely would not buy into that concept in the current political climate. Go make money. Save it. Then do whatever you want.

          7. Entry-level and average salaries are not the same thing. And given the quality of young men on today’s dating market, counting on a partner to share expenses is not a viable strategy.

          8. She will figure it out and she will do better at that without you dumping anxiety on her. She doesn’t need to max out retirement from day one.

        7. I think a lot of folks on this board are out of touch with typical salaries, especially entry level, versus today’s cost of living. The PERCENTAGE of income for housing, food, transportation, etc. is an entirely different calculus than when I was fresh out of school and living with roommates in cruddy areas. And it will be a much bigger row to hoe to work on that downpayment for a condo and then house. I get it. I weep for our next generation and the lack of affordability of housing isn’t getting nearly the attention it deserves. Probably because most Millenials, Xers and boomers are already past those key years. Patching things together with a second job–a generation of gig workers–isn’t sustainable at a certain point either due to conflicts on hours needed to succeed at the main job or the physical and mental burnout. I truly don’t know what this will be like, especially when those generations want to retire and the system isn’t there to support it any longer. At a certain point, you can’t just rely on roommates and packed lunches to climb into a better standard of living.

          1. And health care is way more expensive now. At my first job, I paid $50 per month for health insurance premiums and had $0 deductible and $0 copay. Now our health insurance is several hundred dollars a month with a $3,750 per-person deductible and a $10,000 OOP max.

          2. Several hundred a month for a $3,750 deductible seems unusually awful for corporate healthcare. Are you sure you can’t do better on the marketplace? I have a similar deductible but only pay $10 a month. And everyone at my work pees and moans about how bad our insurance is. Many of our spouses and friends have much smaller deductibles without big premiums.

          3. Several hundred a month for a $6k deductible is normal, so I don’t see why it wouldn’t be normal for a $3750 deductible.

          4. In my MCOL state, you can get a 6k deductible, 12k oop max plan for $350/month on the marketplace with no subsidies (and I know bc my company is going through layoffs so I ~just~ checked) for one person, so I can see a family plan being several hundred. But for OPs daughter, it sounds like she’d just need coverage for herself + she’ll qualify for subsidies + she’ll likely be eligible for a cheaper, under-30 “catastrophic” plan (that’s what I did all through grad school)

        8. Then maybe, for her first years of working? She doesn’t have an HSA and doesn’t contribute to retirement. Like most other people.

          2. I have to wonder what the OP’s thought is on retirement contributions for 20-somethings. Is she one of those out of touch rich ladies who thinks that her daughter needs to contribute $23,000 a year to a 401k plus $6,000 to an IRA? Because a thousand bucks a month after taxes and retirement – let’s do that math.

          3. I am far from rich, which is exactly why I think her only hope for retirement is to max contributions from day 1.

          4. Obviously a first year teacher making 40k probably can’t and shouldn’t max 401k (although compound interest is great, and contributing a smaller amount would be a great idea!)
            But OP mentioned they were pretty middle class; and I think this is touching on a bigger issue — a lot of core middle class jobs (like teachers!) are way less stable than they used to be (shaky pension funds, ridiculous housing inflation, etc etc). OP should let her kid live her life – but it’s also a problem for society as a whole when we’re heading towards be a place where jobs we all want done (again, see, teachers) are held by people perpetually on the edge of a financial cliff, where middle class families think their kids will be less well off in life, etc etc. That’s a problem, and it’s a problem even for rich people – it destabilizes societies (as we are all seeing!) and everyone loses.

        9. So she’s going to earn $20k a year with college degree? Then she lives at home or gets a more sensible career path.

        10. I wouldn’t pay a cent toward encouraging that nonsense. She needs to grow up and get a real job.

        1. Avocado toast, am I right?

          Nice to see we are still complaining about “young people today”.

    5. i’m stressed about this also and my kid is only 13 – you’re not alone! my parents offered very limited financial help when i first graduated — like i had taken a job expecting to be able to find an apartment for $X/mo, and when it wound up costing $X+2 they sent me $200 every month to help me out. i don’t think a small amount like that is unreasonable. but yeah, she needs to learn to live with the budget she’s got or go to law school like the rest of us did.

          1. Same for me, and I say that after having done public service work for the first 15 years of my career. Now in house and make triple what I did when I left govt five years ago. I’m grateful law school gave me the flexibility to pivot into a high paying career track.

      2. Another parent of a 13 year old and I worry about this, too. Cost of living has risen so dramatically in the last decade, and I do believe AI will cause changes to the types and amounts of entry level jobs that will be available by the time my kids enter the workforce. We would never subsidize a fancy lifestyle but we will certainly do what we can to provide a safety net and help the kids out with basic necessities if they need it.

    6. You seem to be imagining her skipping those in-between years where you’ve just started your grown up job but are still living like a college student with roommates and a tight budget. Don’t assume she’ll be living like a 35 year old right off the bat. I didn’t, and I’m an Old. Those were the best years of my life, despite being broke all the time!

      1. I think there’s two things here — are those broke and striving years good or at least ok for young people? And that’s an individual problem mostly, related to resilience and all that jazz

        and separately, does she (and young adults generally) have a reasonable path to financial stability overall?

        The wealth currently held by “olds” can’t be accumulated by 20 years olds living as frugally as you did when you were young; and that IS a societal problem

        1. True, the societal point is an interesting conversation to have. Though, millennials are about to be the recipients of the biggest wealth transfer in history, and presumably they will transfer wealth down to their children, too. That doesn’t mean young people will have “wealth” – but the Baby Boomers tended to live VERY frugally in their formative years, too. My mother talks about how she literally used milk crates for furniture in her first apartments, which she shared with 2+ other women until she got married. My dad bought two reversible suits for his first job out of college and alternated them, while living in a boarding house. We can’t discount lifestyle creep in current generations.

          Another elephant in the room is that wealth is easier to build when you are married, and pushing off marriage until your 30s harms people in that regard

          1. Yeah, actually the wealth transfer thing is one that I think is a real societal harm – it’s not that zero millennials will ever be rich or stable or own a house; it’s that the biggest difference between who is/isn’t is their parents, not themselves. I generally think people should be able to do what they want with their money; but it also doesn’t seem like a good thing for a society when most wealth is inherited; not sure how to resolve those two ideas

            I agree with you on lifestyle creep but I think part of it is “supply creep” for lack of a better word — there are no boarding houses anymore. (Part of it is also uneven inflation among different goods – like cheap clothes or a $20 IKEA bookcase is cheaper than they were for my parents, but my first housing (“room” made of temporary walls next to the staircase in a house with 9 roommates) cost 3X (after inflation) what their first dingy apartment cost

    7. Lolol at your catastrophizing here. Chill out and let your daughter live. But, hey, if this is what radicalizes you against capitalism, then go off.

    8. I see where you’re coming from – it IS hard to be starting out right now – but trust in your kid to figure it out. You’ve given her a huge gift by putting her through school without debt. Her first apartment will probably be a dump that she shares with roommates, and she won’t be able to contribute much to retirement starting out (I know I didn’t). She’ll get the cheapest car insurance and cell plan she can and share Netflix with half a dozen people. Etc etc.

      1. She shouldn’t actually share Netflix with half a dozen of people; these days they send a bill for that.

    9. You think most 22 year old’s fresh out of college are contributing to a 401k/Roth/HSA? No. They do not.

      The way you describe her, her chances are high of having a job with some medical insurance coverage, so that helps. And if she has to buy it herself on the marketplace, she will get a subsidy if her income is low. If she can’t afford a car, she shouldn’t have one.

      I was in school/training most of my 30’s, living on a shoestring with 4-8 roommates in apartments or houses. Your daughter will live with roommates.
      We took public transportation and rode our bikes or carpooled. If she can’t afford to have a car, she can’t have one. We never order food to be delivered, and cooked at home and made our lunches to bring in to work. We had very modest clothing and entertainment budgets, and vacations were a total luxury. That can be her life until she earns enough.

      I am grateful my father knew the importance of saving for retirement, but I had zero $ for retirement. But they gave me a great gift of gifting me $2000 a year for a couple years to open an IRA, so I could learn and understand the importance of saving for retirement. And once my income was above minimum wage, I started saving for retirement as I could.

      1. How is anyone supposed to have a job without a car unless they live in a super expensive city that has public tr—it?

        1. I didn’t get my license until I was 29. I walked. Everywhere. Didn’t have to pay for a gym, either!

          1. Oh, and I lived and worked in a town of 20,000, a major city, and a suburb in that time. Walking worked in all of them!

        2. I did it into my mid 40s in a small southern city with negligible public transportation. A good commuter bike had me door to door quicker than my coworkers who drive, and I never worried about the price of gas. Now I have 1 day/week in another city where I have to drive, but that’s it. It can definitely be done. Forced (or the perception of it being mandatory) car ownership is one of the most overlooked ways people are held back financially.

    10. Counterpoint to some of the posters here (and I wonder how many of them have adult or near adult children): My daughter’s rent, not including utilities, for her tiny 1 BR/1BA apartment in an OK but not great part of town is 40% of her income – and that is with a roommate. She does not have WiFi or cable. She takes her lunch to work every day (no choice because there is no place to eat within walking distance). Her car is 20 years old. She is paying her “young and struggling” dues.

      But we live in one of the most expensive places in the country. Her income will go up as she gets more experience, but in the meantime, I pay her cell phone bill (quite expensive because she uses a lot of data), her car insurance, and I let her use my Costco credit card for gas. I regularly buy her things she wants or needs at Costco and Trader Joes. And I supplement around the edges with things that are “nice to have” but not necessities.

      She works hard and is responsible, but the world is a tough place right now. She is still my kid. I love her and want her to be safe and happy.

      1. I don’t think this is terrible, and doesn’t seem to constitute “supporting her” in the way the OP means. But also – sign up for an unlimited data plan! My parents kept me on their cell phone plan, too, until I was 25

        1. I disagree. Anon Mom is supporting her child a lot! It is her choice to do so, but let’s be honest here. The issue is that maybe daughter cannot afford to live close to Mom and Dad in a VHCL city. That’s life. Many of us would love to live there but we can’t. You have to be wealthy to live in those places if you want to live like Mom and Dad.

          1. Maybe not – but VHCOL city is where I live and where her elderly grandparents live. The opportunity for her to go to a baseball game with her grandfather or to go to a movie with her grandmother (and to get together a few times a month with me for dinner or to get our nails done) is well worth what I pay to help her live here.

            When I was very young and my parents got divorced, my mom moved in with her blue-collar parents. That made it possible for her to finish school and get the job that enabled me to live a solid middle-class life. They could have forced her to support herself and she could have done it – but my life would have looked very different. I can never re-pay that, but it left me with the firm belief that the essential unit is the family not the individual (and that family is not a couple and their minor children).

      2. I don’t think that’s egregious, but I would absolutely comparison shop your cell phone plan. I pay $50/month for unlimited data on T-Mobile and think that’s overpriced…

        2. (if you’re getting good coverage on t mobile, try Mint — runs on t mobile’s network)

          1. I am going to shop around on this when it is time to replace my (locked) iPhone 11). Unfortunately, I am a bit limited for choices because T-Mobile does not work reliably in my neighborhood. We keep hoping that will change

          2. How long have you had your iphone 11, and are you still paying for it (like a monthly installment on the phone, not your service; or a fixed length contract you agreed to to get the phone “free”)? Unless you just bought it recently as a used phone or something, they will DEFINITELY unlock it if you insist.

            There are essentially only 3 cell networks in the US: T-Mobile, AT&T and Verizon. Every other “brand” of cell service is buying coverage from one of the big 3 to resell to you, and those are called “MVNO’s”, and typically cheaper than buying service directly from the brandname network. For example, Visible is the cheaper MVNO using Verizon’s network; Red Pocket and Consumer Cellular use AT&T

          3. I have had that iPhone forever and bought it for cash so thanks for the tip on unlocking!

            Unfortunately, I really only have the option of Verizon or AT&T’s network. T-Mobile has a giant dead spot right in my neighborhood. But if I can get my phone unlocked that would allow me to shop around.

            And “very expensive” is relative to what I know other people are paying but nonetheless I appreciate the suggestion.

    11. I’m not 100% sure what the answer is for you but I know it’s an issue for us with our kids – one in university and one on their own but faced some other real challenges so we help out there basically so we can sleep at night. We are not being “used” but that person is on a more meandering path and we are in a position to help. We talk regularly about whether we need to cut that cord but neither of us is prepared to just say “good luck, you’re on your own.” I feel like it’s easy for others to say “let them sink or swim or suffer” but they aren’t in our shoes. So, as a parent of emerging adults, when you figure this out please come back here and post with your advice!!

      1. I suppose that’s the crux. To me, people on “meandering paths” can move home for free rent while they figure it out. Or they can take up second jobs while they figure out a career. I’m not opposed to helping around the edges if you can afford it (one-time gifts for specific purposes, things like keeping them on the health insurance and cell phone plan), but basically if you want a certain lifestyle you have to be willing to work to attain it.

        I don’t say this in a “hustle culture” way, or that everyone needs to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but by paying for college you’ve already put your kid on third base. They need to feel the responsibility of sinking or swimming from there.

    12. Since our child was small we’ve always said you’re off the payroll after undergrad. They have long understood their obligation to be able to adult and support themselves. They will graduate without debt in a highly sought after career (their choice, but again they understood the assignment). They will graduate next winter and have so far chosen to stay in the university city- also one of the most expensive in the country. While we don’t want them to live somewhere unsafe, they will need to make compromises and learn just like adults do. We will provide a safety net and would welcome them home if necessary but there would be guidelines. The best gift we can give them is the ability to take care of themselves.

    13. I think this is so regional and depends so much on where you live that it’s impossible to talk about in a general way. We’re in the Midwest so even if my daughter moves to a bigger city for job opportunities, the cost of living is not likely to be exorbitant. We plan to keep her on our insurance as long as possible, treat her (and her future spouse/kids if applicable) to nice vacations (which my parents do for us) and possibly provide some help with tuition and/or living costs if she goes to grad or professional school, especially if she’s earned scholarships to college or gone to a state school and there’s 529 money leftover. I don’t see us providing help beyond that though, and I don’t think she’d need it.

      My friends in the Bay Area plan to buy their kids houses, because it’s the only way their kids will be able to stay local. It’s not the choice I’m making, but I respect it, and I don’t think their situations are really comparable to mine because the cost of living is so vastly different.

      1. I can see it as a reasonable choice as an individual (and presumably your friends buying extra houses in the Bay area have their own retirement savings under control) but people – if you are able to buy extra houses in the Bay area so your kids can stay local You Are The Problem. Your calling your senator or buying organic or putting up an anti billionaire payer doesn’t fix that. We can’t have a stable, just society, until you give up some of your unreasonable unsustainable, unjust power and resource-hogging.

        1. I see your point but I think in most cases they plan to sell their first house to do it and move in with their kids, because they couldn’t afford two houses. So it’s sort of not that different than adult kids moving back home, except less embarrassing for the kids because they technically own the house. Most of the people I know are rich by normal definitions (mid-high six figure incomes) but that’s still not really “buy two houses in the Bay Area” money.

        3. Houses that people who need to live somewhere will live in isn’t my idea of “resource hogging.”

      2. Your friends in the Bay Area should move to wherever their kids can afford, not keep them as pets in an area they can’t afford.

        1. Eh I’m the one complaining about rich bay area generational wealth families and even I think “keep them as pets” doesn’t describe this situation. It’s a group of adults from two generations deciding to pay for something together that none of them can afford individually. If intergenerational living works for them, awesome!

          1. I made that comment before the poster clarified that everyone is living in a single house. That’s better (still not great and absolutely not a choice I would make for my kids, but better).

          1. I would have said sad rather than gross. I am always amazed at the number of people whose relationship with their parents – and presumably their adult children – is so attenuated that they do not see the value in being physically close and spending time together and who see any help from a parents as a form of control (presumably because that is their experience). They tend to project those issues on others, which I think leads to a lot of the responses we always see to posts about parents.

            But I would also caution people who do not yet have children or whose children are young about making grand pronouncements. Self-reliance is all very well and good until someone gets sick, or divorced, or loses a child or spouse, or even just picks a career path that requires years of poorly paid training without the promise of a big pay day at the end. And remember that someday you too will presumably need help.

            It is all a balance but there is a difference between offering help or allowing your child to follow their professional dream of being a teacher versus allowing them to follow their professional dream of being a beach bum.

          2. Thinking parents who are retired should move to where their child can afford to live instead of treating them like teenagers is gross? I’m arguing for facilitating independence and connection simultaneously.

          3. It can be hard for kids and grandkids to make up for the loss of an entire community (church, neighborhood, extended family, friendships that go decades back). Not everyone has that to begin with, but it’s not a bad thing to invest in and try to preserve.

          4. People with kids in their 20s are not likely to be retired! I’m in my 50s and I’ve got at least another decade of work.

            Besides which I am not sure what I would be achieving by forcing both of us to live in a place we do not want to be just to make a point about self sufficiency. If she wanted to live somewhere else that would be different but that is not the scenario we are talking about.

          5. If you have multiple kids how do you pick who to move to? The parents moving is common among only children I know, but significantly more complicated when there are 2 or more kids. And yes it doesn’t typically happen until kids are at least mid-30s and have kids of their own and parents are at a more natural retirement age. When I was 25 my parents were in their 50s and still working.

      1. I think it’s hard to save enough that it won’t all go towards the medicaid spend down.

    15. I can tell you what we did … I currently have a 29 yo and a 27 yo. We paid for college, so they both graduated with no loans. For my dd, she had a scholarship so the college savings we had for her financed a masters. She’s in a career where the salary tops out at 65k to 75k but it’s a passion for her. The younger, my ds, is in a field where he gets paid a crazy amount of money right now, starting salary was around $130K and has stock options, bonuses, and has gotten a hefty raise each year, etc. However, there’s a good chance this same job won’t exist in 10 to 15 years, so it’s a make it while you can situation.

      We paid for their phones, health insurance, and auto insurance until they were 26. While they were in college we had given each of them a decent, but older and used car and we transferred the titles to them outright. We pay for 2 weeks at a beach house each summer and ask them to come and spend as much time as they can with us there. This is a continuation of the summer vacations we took when they were kids. While there, dh and I pay for everything, food, drinks, etc. Any time during the year that we meet up with them to go out to dinner, dh and I pay, and I will buy them things that they want/need when I can — things like a nice leather bag for my daughter that she really wanted, but couldn’t justify the cost of. We give generous Christmas and birthday gifts after asking them what they want/need.

      We spent a lot of time when they were younger explaining and being really honest about finances and saving for retirement, and they both discuss finances with us freely and easily. I know they both have 6 months of living expenses saved and I know they both contribute heavily to their IRAs and retirement accounts. I know my daughter has an HSA but I don’t know for sure if my son has one. My daughter plays the credit card points game and has traveled frequently and well as a result, but I also know that she pays the credit card off monthly and doesn’t overspend. My daughter had roommates for several years when she first got out of school that she split costs with, but now lives with her SO. His salary is pretty equal to hers.

      DH and I would love to be in a position where we could give them each more than we do, but we are also retired and living on a fixed income and know first hand how expensive elder care and medical care are, so we are devoting our resources to making sure that is covered and the kids don’t need to bear that cost.

    16. In my area, it’s very common for young teachers to nanny during the summer (or sometimes after school during the week) and it’s incredibly well-paid – like minimum $25/hr. That’s easily another $10k over the summer. This might not be possible everywhere but many teachers I know supplement their income pretty easily. When I was in law school all of my teacher friends tutored, nannied, or taught summer school over the summer for extra income. Many of those friends ultimately got burnt out on teaching and got new certifications to be reading specialists etc. over time and their income has grown. So I know it’s scary to see 40k and think that’s it, but it’s not necessarily. I’m not going to weigh in on the supporting your kid part bc my kids are toddlers and I lived at home over the summers during law school and I don’t know the best way forward!

      1. Yes, this! Tutoring is also really popular, and is lucrative – even in my LCOL area it’s at least $50/hour for a good math or reading tutor and I know it can go much higher in other places.

        You have to keep in mind that teaching is a 9 month job and it’s not realistic for most 20-somethings to only choose to work 9 months out of the year. If they take an appropriate summer job they can easily make $55-60k or more.

      2. I can’t believe I had to scroll so far to see this. Almost every teacher I know had a summer job, usually waitressing. Many had weekend gigs as well.

        She can make it work like literally thousands of others do. This OP sounds like a crazy helicopter obsessed with retirement.

        1. Same. Put nicely, check out the many influencers for children’s education. It’s super lucrative and would be such a gift to the world to have someone actually qualified as a teacher, influencing children and parents etc. That is what I’d be advising my children if they choose to be teachers (one is veering towards math teaching, driven by love of subject).

    17. I imagine that my kids will be on my health insurance until 26 because it is probably better and cheaper insurance than they could probably buy on the marketplace. I can also imagine helping them secure housing with a deposit, etc., but I’d imagine they’d need to get roommates/live in a not-super-fancy neighborhood when they are starting out.

      1. +1

        Anything I want my budget to do, I can make it happen. And no third-party firm gets all that data about me and my spending habits.

  9. Help me talk to my husband.

    We own two houses. Current house that’s $3k per month. Dream house that we recently bought that’s $4k per month. Dream house will need a gut reno that costs as much as the house itself, so that will be another $4k per month.

    The agreement has been that my husband, who takes home $13k monthly, would pay for current house, and I, who take home $9k monthly, would pay for dream house. When dream house is reno’d, DH will take on that $4k and we’ll be even steven – $4k each.

    We were supposed to start the reno for dream house a year ago, but ::gestures in contractor:: delays, so DH is still paying for the $3k current house and I’m paying $4k for dream house. That’s $1k a month more on me when I have less income.

    This matters because we moved my mom up there to be with us. DH refused to consider a granny cottage on our property, so I bought her the cutest little cottage we could find at $3k per month. The agreement was that mom would pay me $1200 per month, meaning I’d take on $1,800 per month. A fair contribution toward my elderly mom.

    For Reasons, mom hasn’t been paying me. So I’m paying $3k for her house plus $4k for dream house. I’m dyyyyiiinnngg. $7k out of $9k take home going toward housing – pay a car note and a few other things and I’m broke. The mom thing is my issue, but I’d really love some help on dream house from DH since he’s swimming in cash since it’s a much smaller percentage of his take home. (He’s constantly shopping online and having fun things for hobbies delivered. Meanwhile, I can’t even afford a used dress on Poshmark.)

    Because that $2k I have to live on is so narrow, I’ve accumulated some debt, which DH views as a moral failure. Well, a55hat (said lovingly!), I wouldn’t have it and could get rid of it if you’d help me out! He also says I’d be “going back on my word” and “breaking a promise” if I didn’t keep paying the $4k.

    Is there any argument that could get him to help me out?

    2. No, we can’t give you magic words to say to make your husband agree with you. This is a problem the two of you need to figure out that has very little to do with the actual content of the argument.

    5. Marriage counseling or divorce? I’m part of the group that believes separate finances leads to issues just like this… you are living like roommates and he doesn’t seem to care enough about your well-being to ensure you are as comfortable as he is.

      Setting that aside, what is your $2K supposed to cover? Perhaps he should cover all the expenses related to house 1, like utilities and maintenance.

    7. I don’t feel like you can afford two houses, much less three. Also your husband is an a55hat (not said lovingly). Time for a reality check all around.

      1. And a gut renovation of one of the houses that costs as much as the house!

        If I’m doing my math correctly, there will be a point at which they own three houses, one of which is being renovated, and paying $14,000 a month in mortgage + renovation mortgage costs, on a $21,000/month income.

    8. chr-st on a cracker he is being a pedantic a..hat. The principle of your deal was you were splitting overall housing costs equally… and now you are bearing 75% of it for the indeterminate future? Honestly this attitude is so horrifyingly ridiculous that I’d be considering divorcing him.

      also, this is why I do not understand married couples that don’t share a bank account for all (or a material portion) of the joint income. you’re living like roommates, not spouses.

    9. Youre not “breaking your word.” Circumstances have changed. With your mom’s situation, you should look at whether you can actually afford dream house–I’m not seeing much in the way of savings, unless you’re counting on RE being your savings later (and it’s not liquid). I think you need to have more of an “ours” mentality and less of a you vs me mentality. Presumably, he’s not going to live in the dream house alone.

    10. It seems like there are two issues here. 1) You have separate finances from your husband, so have to look at your finances as a stand-alone (not combined with his). If you look at it that way, you are living well above your means. You cannot afford two mortgages totaling $7,000 on $9,000 take-home, and you are going into debt to stay afloat. It isn’t sustainable or financially healthy to live above your means like this, and you need to take care of this ASAP. Selling the second or first home would be one option. Downgrading your mother’s housing to a smaller apartment you can afford to pay on your own would be another. In any case, this isn’t financially responsible to have two mortgages you can’t afford.

      The second issue is that you have separate finances, but it really doesn’t seem like you want to have separate finances. I don’t blame you – I would rather be single than have the arrangement you’re describing. You need to sit down with your DH and say “I can’t do this anymore. I’d prefer to share finances and have a team-effort approach. If we have fully separate finances, we need to sell one of the homes, because I point-blank can’t afford a $4,000 mortgage on my own.”

      You need to figure out what you want and then communicate it to DH. If he doesn’t want what you want, you need to take care of yourself and your own financial health, and stop acting like you have joint finances when you don’t.

    11. Sell your mom’s cottage and move her into an apartment. Unless you live in the Bay Area or NYC you can find a decent place for less than $3k/month.
      Tell your husband that you need to sell one of the two main houses or change up how the contributions work. Are they in both of your names?

    12. I feel the need to give you the advice I often give to clients in bad situations – You need to stop negotiating your own deals. You aren’t good at it and it often comes back to bite you.
      And no, you shouldn’t be negotiating with your life partner like people on opposite sides of a transaction, where one is trying to take advantage of the other, and the deal terms are forever no matter what changes, but it seems like the position you have been in. That’s really what needs to change.

    13. I don’t know man. You have three mortgages and are going to take out some kind of a loan to renovate the other property? I get that you’re high earning but it feels like you’re over leveraged full stop before we get to the equity of the division of expenses. People can have separate finances in ways that aren’t this siloed. Did you have some kind of a conversation about buying your mom a house? Because I have my own checking account but I don’t buy cars or real estate without my spouse’s express consent and backing.

      1. Right? Pretty sure this post is fake but there have been plenty of similar, slightly less wild dynamics posted here. “My money is for me” is so anti-marriage.

        1. I suspect it’s real since she posted before back when her mom was still contributing.

        2. I can’t believe it’s real (a) because it is insane and (b) because she described buying her mother “the cutest little cottage.” It’s cute so you can afford it? That’s over the top implausible.

    15. I hate people like this. Tell him you need him to step up and help you, and that your finances need to be combined during this period until things shake out. His willingness to see you suffer so you “keep your word” would have me dialing a divorce attorney. And I don’t say this lightly.

    17. If you want to keep separate finances and the “contribute same $ despite different incomes” deal, you have to sell a house – even if the reno happens and he starts paying $4000 so you’re equal, you will still only have $2000 non-housing available.

      So options:
      1) You two could switch to proportional-to-income expense sharing
      2) He can contribute more
      3) You all can choose to reduce your shared expenses to a standard of living that matches your income, rather than his (ie sell the dream house, or he agrees to an ADU for your mom)
      4) You can decrease your non-shared expenses. This probably means move your mom into a cheaper apartment, but also $2000 non housing take home is pretty good — and definitely enough to afford an occasional Poshmark dress. Standard budgeting advice – figure out where every dollar of it is going. Do NOT get into more credit card debt.

    18. I respect people who want to keep separate finances but it feels callous when the other person doesn’t notice that one is in financial straits. If your brother or mother or best friend was in that situation wouldn’t you try to talk to them to see if you could help or pay for dinner or something?

      1. mmm I don’t want a “totally separate finances” marriage for myself, but given that’s their deal, I can kinda see husband’s point. He presumably doesn’t think she should be subsidizing her mom (or at least not to this extent but iirc from the last iteration of this post, OP thinks Mom deserves a house over an apartment Because), but, separate finances, that’s not his business. Except now it means she can’t pay a shared expense they agreed on. (The current split of their shared housing is unfair with him paying less — but resolving that won’t fix the problem of her not being able to afford her part).

        1. Good assessment. I still disagree with the bananas way they are hard-line splitting their finances, but I guess mom’s house is the way OP is spending her discretionary money, which is the point of separate finances in the first place. And I say this as a person with kids in a one-income family, but $2K per month for one person’s free spending doesn’t sound too tight? But lots of questions over who pays for groceries and other day-to-day expenses that cover both of them.

          I do wonder why husband isn’t saving the cash for the renovation now so they won’t have a $4K/month loan in the future. And what OP is going into debt over.

          Seems that holding mom to her end of the bargain or moving her into a cheaper place could solve a lot!

          1. This! They should be able to save for the renovation. But the way they are going about this feels like it never occurred to them to cash flow the renovation or sell the current house first. Like the default option is always debt? I’m make way less than this lady and managed to case flow a renovation because my first house was debt free but that’s a crazy privilege. Most people sell the first place so they’re not in this situation.

    19. This is why we are a one pot family. I can’t imagine one spouse living it up while the other struggles. Some years I’ve made much more than my husband and some years he’s made much more than me, but we don’t keep score.

    21. This is idiotic what in the actual bananas are you doing. Sell two houses. Get a grip.

    22. You sell the dream house.

      You also talk to a divorce attorney.

      Of course your husband doesn’t want to change this scenario.

    25. OK, so trying to put on an “entirely separate finances” negotiation hat; I think the way you could approach it is:

      “Honey, we agreed to split our shared housing costs 50/50, but for the last year I’ve paid $48k while you’ve paid $36k. Can we switch our contributions for the next year to balance that out?”. I don’t think you asking for a change is “breaking your word” since the 50/50 that was the basis of the deal didn’t happen.

      That said! Imagine your husband just gives you 6K, and the reno happens tomorrow – so you two are “balanced out” for your contributions last year and 50/50 going forward. Are your half of the finances stable for the future? Is the situation where your mom can’t/isn’t contributing to her mortgage resolved? Is 6k enough to cover your credit card debt, and do you have to plan to keep your other expenses under 2K (or 3.2K if your mom is contributing now) going forward?

    26. At minimum it seems fair to ask to split the $1000 difference until the reno starts right or propose selling one of the houses since you can’t afford it? And $3000 for your mom seems like it’s no longer working. I don’t know your market, but I wonder if you need to consider a shared wall condo or something that is likely cheaper. If she complains, well…. she’s not paying for it and you can’t afford it if you’re taking on debt.

  10. what are the most tragic/hideous clothes you remember from movies or tv shows?

    immediately the prom dress from 16 candles comes to mind

    there’s a scene in a tom hanks movie (sleepless in seattle?) where the kid disappears and the useless babysitter is wandering around looking dazed trying to call for the kid. i always thought the babysitter’s pants were some of the most tragic pants i’d ever seen.

    now you can buy them!
    https://www.anthropologie.com/shop/the-colette-ruffled-cropped-wide-leg-pants-by-maeve-magic-fabric-edition?category=SEARCHRESULTS&color=032&searchparams=cm_mmc=rakuten-_-affiliates-_-Corporette-_-1%26q=maeve%2520pants%26ranEAID=j3wYAlndgaI%26ranMID=39789%26ranSiteID=j3wYAlndgaI-.8GJKTMjcxc5DEDg_XcSqQ%26utm_campaign=Corporette%26utm_content=1%26utm_kxconfid=v3sdgfere%26utm_medium=affiliates%26utm_source=rakuten%26utm_term=1529114&type=STANDARD&quantity=1

    1. Every one of Robin’s outfits in How I Met Your Mother. DH and I are watching it now and each one is worse than the last – short, tight, cami-baring monstrosities. So thoroughly of an era that they are almost too much even for the aughts

      1. They’re adorable on my 2 year old. Didn’t know Rufflebutts was selling their stuff in adult sizes now.

        1. LOL Mommy + Me. I actually love Rufflebutts for the kids. Adults does’t as commonly wear diapers and would not prefer to have ruffled butts :)

  11. Every separate finances post on this board makes me gasp. When did this become normalized?! I honestly can’t imagine the mindset of these husbands committing to share a life with their wives and then letting them live in a different socioeconomic bracket than themselves. It’s like American individualism / Venmo culture taken to the utmost extreme and it’s so sad to read about.

    1. I have two law school classmates who married each other summer after law school and both went into big law. They’re both senior associates, so both make the same. They publicly Venmo each other rent money or like “brunch date!”.

      I do not get it. Obviously, it’s worked for them for 6+ years but…you’re splitting brunch checks as senior associates??? Jesus.

      1. I have a colleague (in my private equity office) who venmos back and forth with his wife (a SAHM to their three toddlers) things like “Fri night pizza” “babysitter” “clothes for Jr.”

        1. What is she even paying with? Unless she is spending generational wealth, and maybe even if she is, he should be paying for everything.

        2. Does… is he paying her to be a sahm?

          I will never ever public venmo; but I deeply appreciate people who do and therefore generate such excellent distracting internet gossip for me

          1. I actually know a couple that does this. His pay check is split between the joint account they use to pay their fixed joint expenses like their mortgage, utilities, insurance and groceries and everything else is split evenly between their separate accounts. And they do in fact Venmo each other back and forth.

            She left a lucrative career to stay at home with their twins but said she was not going to be “the little wifey asking for an allowance to get her nails done.” Although in this particular case it is almost a joke. They sit down on the weekends with a bottle of wine and divvy things up. She describes it as like playing a shorter game of Monopoly.

        1. Public Venmoing is how my father found out that my stepmother was making derogatory comments about him while sending money to my half-sister.

      3. Absurdness of trying to make everything perfectly 50-50, I just can’t even imagine how much time this takes? I feel like I would lose literally years of my life if I was constantly Venmo-ing or receiving Venmo money from my husband for our hundreds and hundreds of every day expenses. Can’t they just divide things up, like one person pays the rent in even months and the other in odd months or something like that?

        1. I remember a post here ages ago where the OP wrote that she and her partner split groceries, but not evenly – only she ate the granola bars so she paid for those, only he drank the coke so he paid for that. How many hours of life were wasted divvying up receipts like that?

        2. They’re senior associates in big law, so collectively bringing in high six figures, maybe low seven figures. It is bananas to me that they are nickel and diming each other over rounding errors like a brunch bill!

          1. That’s wild. For a period of time when we were dating in our 20s, I was unemployed and had law school debt and my husband was living on a tiny grad student stipend and we still didn’t nickel and dime that much; we just alternated who paid for brunch and ate at very cheap places.

    2. Now I have to hunt for those posts. We are hybrid because my husband has extreme money anxiety. I earn more. Household is a joint account then we each have individual accounts for discretionary. I pay for vacations, lessons, the fun stuff that stresses him out to see.

      1. This makes total sense!! I was just referring to the posts that have women living paycheck to paycheck while their husbands have tons of discretionary spending. Women having their own money in general and separate fun money is very healthy!

        1. You mean like the poster above whose take home pay is $9k/month? I have a feeling she’ll be okay.

          1. She said she’s going into debt to support her lifestyle! That’s not doing okay in my book.

      2. We have totally joint finances, but we still have essentially a don’t ask, don’t tell policy with respect to things like vacations. My husband doesn’t look at credit card bills or bank account balances. Which I would probably not be ok with if the roles were reversed, or recommend to others (especially women), but it works for him. However I’m generally responsible and max out our retirement contributions and make significant 529 contributions before we even see our paychecks, which he knows, so as long as I’m not going into credit card debt (which I’m not) there isn’t really anything he’d gain by reviewing the statements.

        1. Ha, this is our approach too. My husband made a joke that “our money is my money” and my retort was that he barely knows the logins to our accounts. I have the same feelings as you do, but it’s working out fine for him!

    3. I don’t think dramatically separate finances (like the post above, and the one the other week about the wife who was driving an old beater while the husband was considering a second “fun car”) are normal. Most people I know are either totally joint, with both spouses knowing the bounds of discretion without consulting their partner, or joint as to like 80% with each spouse having 10% to spend how they want – but those individual pots are equal, not based on that person’s income. Huge decisions like houses are a joint agreement and undertaking.

      1. This makes me feel better! I feel like there have been 3-4 posts about separate finances that have shocked me, but maybe it’s one poster multiple times? I had no idea people set up marriages like that and I hope it isn’t that common.

        1. What does it matter to you?? I get thinking, “huh that’s weird” but to say you hope people aren’t doing this is weirdly paternalistic. News flash: there are 8 billion other people out there and most of them probably do things differently from you.

          2. The whole point of commenting here is to be “weirdly paternalistic” and/or judgmental!

          3. Eh there are a lot of things those 8 billion people are doing that I wish they weren’t, starting with the guy on the subway not using headphones. People have the freedom to make bad choices, and they’re still bad choices.
            (Autocorrect wanted to make that “freedom to make bad coffee”; and people have that too)

      2. I have entirely separate finances from my husband. We’re both high earners (him much more than me). But he’s 15 years older and has a son. He owns the house and pays the mortgage. I’m covered well with a prenup and will (and could still do well on my own). We both own our own cars and have separate investments. We’ve taken care of costs of healthcare at different times depending on best option from our employers. I like never having to justify or ask permission on a purchase (though would get advice on something like property). Different strokes for different folks. But also not ok if one partner is living a vastly different standard of living.

        1. We are 100% combined and never have to ask permission for a purchase. We’ll have a conversation about big ones, but it’s not an interrogation.

          1. Same. I’ve never asked my husband for permission to buy anything and we have fully combined finances.

          2. Same. 100% combined. There’s no permission asking, but there is notification and maybe disscussion about anything big.

          3. Same, the permission excuse makes me think the relationship is otherwise very controlling.

          4. Same. I think separate finance people have this idea that joint finance people are asking our husbands for permission every time we get a $50 pedicure or something, but that’s not the reality for most people. Most people I know don’t even discuss purchases under a certain threshold and if you’re high earners that threshold can be pretty high.

          5. Exactly, the only conversation we have for permission is for cars and houses. DINKs with very high salaries and one pot.

        2. The calculus is different when the spouses are older, particularly if there are children involved. Or when one spouse brought substantial assets into the marriage that are not community property. Because I have seen that go wrong way too many times in cases with divorce, mental illness, or just plain old fashioned financial mismanagement.

          1. Agreed, it makes sense in complex situations, however spouses still need to plan in a realistic and compassionate way that I don’t think many people are capable of.

        3. I’ve been happily married for 18 years with separate finances. We’re a great team and make most decisions jointly. Lot of assumptions here. My husband and I would obviously help the other if ever needed. But never having to have a conversation about how I choose to spend is bliss. (Sorry, ladies—that’s a form of permission even if you don’t want to admit it.) Probably works best because we are similar high earners and don’t have kids. One of the top reasons couples argue is supposed to be finances but has never been our case. Also, come back in 20 years and let me know how those of you who ended up with sports gamblers, alcoholics, or sudden “artists” fared. Ive seen way too many instances where professional women end up without “one pot” to piss in.

          1. We have fully joint finances and I don’t discuss purchases except for things that impact him, which is not about the money. Like if I was buying a couch I would show him the couch because I’m putting in his living room and he has to live with it — but that’s a decorating issue not a financial one. I would show him a couch I was buying for our house even with separate pots of money. We bicker plenty but I can’t recall ever arguing about money. And yes having a lot of it helps, but it wasn’t hard when we were younger and poorer. I think you are very misinformed about what joint finances look like like for most affluent couples.

          2. I’ve been married 42 years and we’ve been totally joint since day 1. The only time we’ve discussed money is when buying our houses and buying a car. The car was not asking permission, but which account I needed to transfer the money from to pay cash at the dealer. Oh, I guess there’s been the occasional “you wrote something in the checkbook, is this a 5 or an 8?” discussions. We do discuss household finances monthly, but I assume people with separate finances need to do that as well just to make sure that the mortgage and insurance get paid. We’ve paid for 2 kids to go to college, an expensive sports car restoration, a vacation home, lots of trips, an expensive chronic illness and the deaths of 3 parents, several jobs losses, several career pivots, and retirement. I don’t really need to wait 20 years to see how it turns out thankyouverymuch.

          3. “Come back in 20 years and let me know how those of you who ended up with sports gamblers, alcoholics, or sudden “artists” fared. Hon, maybe you didn’t end up with one of them. But plenty of people sure do.

            The same crowd who think prenups are marriage enders are all too often the ones with the short stick when things go off track. And, yes, it’s more often the professional women.

      3. Agree that these posts are not normal at all, at least among the couples in my circle. It seems a) way too complicated; and b) an indictation of … something about the partnership or lack thereof.

    5. My grandparents born 100 years ago had separate finances — my grandmother’s wish because she made more. It’s not a recent development.

    6. I think it’s super weird and a recipe for divorce. No one I know who does this has a marriage I’d want to be in. It’s simply not a partnership.

      2. I knew a couple who had separate finances because of kids from a prior marriage, etc., and I remember how one saved up money for years so they could both go on a meaningful once in a life time trip together with the money set aside.

        That felt like such a different vibe to me from the multiple couples I know where one may go on vacation alone explicitly because their partner wasn’t able to fit it into their budget.

        1. This was my family. Dad brought substantial assets and three adult children to his second marriage. Step-mother brought substantial assets and three adult or almost-adult children. She sold her house and moved into Dad’s, keeping the proceeds as her separate property. In addition, her children inherited quite a lot between their father’s life insurance pay-out and their paternal grandparents that my siblings and I obviously did not share in.

          My father’s estate plan was carefully drafted, with step-mother’s participation and consent, to protect his assets for his children and grandchildren while still protecting her during her life-time. When he passed, most of his liquid assets and personal property went to us but his house was left in a trust. She can live there as long as she lives provided she does not re-marry but it will go to his children after her death or re-marriage, minus a credit her estate will receive for any capital improvements she makes as long as the trustee agrees in advance that they are reasonable and necessary. It is all very complicated but it has worked so far.

    7. I know. Don’t judge, blah blah blah, but it’s wild to me. It sounds so exhausting to live that way.

  12. Have any of you tried Ravella silk blouses? They look beautiful but for $200, am I going to love it?

    1. Maybe. I have three Juliet blouses from Ravella that I like a lot. I wear them with pencil skirts. I haven’t liked the non-button up blouses on my body type, but I feel like the quality is good.

      1. That’s a cute blouse – I’m looking at the shells, Florence, and Lorraine. I’ll try the shell first.

    2. I’ve been looking at these for two years trying to figure out if they’re worth the cost. I’m tired of buying clothes that end up cheap-looking and worn out within six months to a year.

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