Thursday’s Workwear Report: Mid-Rise Baby-Boot Pants

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1. What are your favorite houseplants? Any tips for getting them through a dark, northern hemisphere winter?

   I never kept plants indoors until recently. My family teases me that I might care more about the plants than I do them, but the houseplants are quite lovely and well-behaved so I don’t see anything wrong with this.

   1. I use sun lamps in the winter! They’re not expensive.

      1. Could you post a link to the ones you like?

         1. I like the “Hatch Restore” (2020 Model is the most affordable): link: https://www.amazon.com/Hatch-Restore-Machine-Personal-Routine/dp/B087M94WWW/

            It’s not technically a SAD light but it does a sunrise alarm with natural warm colors. I love it for cold dark mornings. It also does wind down bedtime routines and white noise.

            1. Does this work for plants or just people?

   2. Last year my party game for a family gathering at my parents’ was for people to guess how many individual plants my mom had in her house. There were nearly 200. She uses sun lights all over the place.

   3. I do rotation through different locations, our sun room gets the most sun (obvs) but it’s cold. My monstera can’t live in our bedroom window because the window is single glazing and often open.

   4. My husband uses lights for his bonsai. My office (with all my plants) faces south so I get quite a bit of sun during the day but if not I move them around. My office is truly a jungle this time of year. I have nearly 10 plants in here right now.

   5. I have around 25 houseplants in my house and 8 in my office and 5 more in my studio. They range from a 9 foot bamboo tree, to a tiny cactus that I’m barely keeping a live. LOL. It’s a key part of my decorating formula (plants, books, wood, white, blue) and everything feels better when there’s plants around.

      My favorites in general are pathos. They’re common but just so easy and happy, and you can let them get long and traily, or keep trimming them so they get more bushy; so versatile. I like the versions that are all one color, not stripy, but there’s so many varieties. I have a Swiss cheese variety that is super fun too.

      Other easy plants are ZZ plants and snake plants. They’re so hard to kill.

      I got a really nice fishbone cactus this summer and love to look at it – it’s so different and sculptural. and it bloomed a flower! I think I’ve watered it 3-4 times? it’s up high so kind of perfectly inconvenient so I don’t overwater it.

      My favorite favorite plants are sentimental – I have a very old christmas cactus that my aunt gave to me and it used to be my grandmothers. I’ve moved that thing all around the country in my front seat of my car – it didn’t love that. :) but a few years later it’s rebounding nicely. I have a variety of plants that my aunts have given me from their collections – jade plants, African violets, spider plants, a prayer plant – that are sentimental. And I have huge a ponytail palm that I love very much because DH and I got it after a big move – got it from Ikea when it was much littler and now it occupies a solid 24 inches of counter space.

      Tips: I always feel ill equipped to offer tips since I kind of just wing it. I water every 7-10 day, ish, and then I kind of just watch and see what happens. In the late spring I kind of eye up everything and might repot some of them to bigger pots – but warning they will grow into those pots, and then you’ll end up with a bunch of big plants. :D

      1. I love pothos – and they’re easy to propagate!

         1. +1

            Also this may be a little drastic but I installeld a solatube skylight over a built-in planter in my old house and the plants LOVED it!

            1. Doesn’t sound drastic to me. :) I have one room in my house that doesn’t have windows (guest bathroom) and I am planning on installing a window over the shower (like 7 feet high up – we have 10 foot ceilings) in the future so it’s a better room for plants.

            2. You might want to look into the solatube. It’s surprisingly easy and inexpensive. MUCH less than a window.

            3. I’ve actually done it in a windowless bath, with great results.

      2. “I kind of just wing it. I water every 7-10 day, ish, and then I kind of just watch and see what happens.”

         This is me too. People come to my house and say “oh, I love all your plants, how do you keep them so healthy?” And the answer is – I really have no idea. I just kind of eyeball them and if one seems like it’s not doing so great in one place, I’ll move it to a different place; I’ll water more or less often, etc. I water everything about every 10 days and everything stays alive so that must be sufficient. I also get rid of plants that don’t seem to do well no matter where I put them or how much I water. I have bought a couple of plants that ended up getting composted because no matter what I did, they didn’t seem to do well. Not all plants do well in all environments, despite all the cross-breeding of houseplants that are supposed to make them foolproof for everyone.

   6. I have a few. Most go largely dormant in the low light of winter, and then grow fast in the spring and summer. I don’t use lamps but I also don’t expect any growth in the winter. I think we all need to rest sometimes, including plants. I’ve read that plants need water less in the winter but I don’t find that to be the case because the air is so dry. I don’t keep them on windowsills in the winter either — too much cold!

      1. I have a pothos in my basement bedroom, and it’s indestructible. Almost no light, it doesn’t grow much. I water it… sometime between weekly and monthly?

      2. Same here. I have probably 10? I definitely water in the winter but back way off on fertilizing.

   7. I’m in Boston. I have a ficus and a couple spider plants inside year round, as well as basil and a couple amaryllis and poinsettia that are in window sills seasonally. The ficus is in a bright sunny window. I get poinsettia for winter when home depot has them for like $2/each (I think it’s black friday?), keep them in my bay window until they can move outside, then I put them in the garden where they live happily until fall. I just cut them down when we had our killing frost.

      In the winter I bring in my patio plants which are a gardenia tree and a lemon tree. These guys stay outside until the latest date possible- right now they sleep in my garage and I roll them outside during the day. They’ll probably come in for good after thanksgiving/ before the first real snow/ when day temps are consistently in the 40s, whichever comes first.

   8. I have found that pothos does really well no matter the light level.

   9. No tips about winter – I live in a temperate climate, so don’t have much problem with plants making it; we still get plenty of daylight hours in the winter, and I have all my plants situated where they can take advantage of at least 6-8 hours of filtered bright sunlight.

      Houseplants also go through dormancy in the winter – it’s not as obvious as when plants outside drop their leaves, etc. But they will go through a time of slower growth, less flowering if they flower, etc. when temperatures drop and days shorten. I have about 20 houseplants and I’ve had some of them for over a decade, and as long as they’re getting watered, they usually make it just fine. Plants are a great way to keep the humidity level in the house higher in the winter, as you’re running your furnace.

      As for favorites:
      – Spider plants, which can grow just about anywhere as long as there’s sufficient light.
      – Pothos, which don’t even need light to grow. This is the starter houseplant I recommend to everyone. They are nearly impossible to kill.
      – I have a coleus with bright purple and pink leaves that I got at a plant exchange this summer that I just love. It’s been pretty easy to take care of.
      – I also have two jade plants, in honor of my grandmother, who had a gigantic jade that my aunt ended up with. My grandmother had her jade for over 40 years before she passed and it’s still going; they live a very long time with minimal care.

      Plants I think are overhyped:
      – Fiddle leaf figs, which are finicky about light and take a very long time to grow. I have one; it’s doing fine but it’s very particular about watering and light and it’s kind of a pain, frankly. I have thought about giving it away to someone who would appreciate it more.
      – I bought a Petra Croton plant because I liked the leaf colors (bright red, yellow, orange along with green) and it’s also a finicky little thing. VERY sensitive to not being watered on the schedule it likes.
      – I haven’t been very lucky with most cactus. I can keep them alive but they don’t seem to thrive in my house.

   10. An elderly lady who lived next door to my childhood home gave me a cutting of her houseplant in 1986. She said her own plant was a cutting was from her grandmother’s houseplant, and that her grandmother’s plant had been nearly 100 years old. My cutting is now 37 years old and going strong. I believe it’s a Hoya Carnosa or Wax Plant (I have been trying to google it for a while!) and one description said “the houseplant our grandparents grew”

       https://pistilsnursery.com/products/hoya-carnosa-wax-plant

       Easy care, not fussy about light or water. I don’t know why this isn’t in every store.

       1. I have my grandmother’s wax plant, that she’d had for probably 30 years before she died. My aunts and mother have taken cuttings off of it over the years, and the cuttings are all thriving. They grow very, very slowly but are easy care. I love the deep green leaves.

   11. I love houseplants! I have various herbs in the kitchen’s garden window, a bunch of orchids, a christmas cactus, assorted succulents, a small fern, prayer plant, bonsai tree, a tall corn plant, several amaryllises, a giant palm that my sister gave me to “babysit” while she was deployed and still hasn’t picked up again even though she’s been home for 2 years, and African violets (my grandma has grown them forever, and she gave me several + the christmas cactus when she moved to an assisted living facility last year. Most were propagated from a plant that belonged to *her* mother).

       My favorites are the violets for sentimental reasons, and the orchids for fun… I benignly neglect all my plants and just kind of water them when I think about it or notice they’re looking sad, so it’s always an exciting surprise when the orchids send up a stalk to rebloom!

       This thread has inspired me to get a pothos for my basement. It’s finished but obviously doesn’t get much light, so it’s currently the one place in the house with no plants, but time to give it a try!

   12. “the houseplants are quite lovely and well-behaved” This made me laugh – enjoy the little things each day! I’m also in for a long, cold winter, and I know it can be tough. I don’t have houseplants, but that’s more because I have a little mischievous cat who will have dirt on his face and paws the second a plant comes in the door.

   13. ZZ plants are fantastic, if you water them they grow like crazy. I’m in a dark place and they are still thriving. Pothos also grows very well and is hardy. Personally I find the following to be fairly forgiving but not as much as the first two: shefflera, peace lily, ficus benjamina, monstera.

   14. I also really like Dracaena marginata, which I haven’t seen mentioned.

       1. I have one of those! Mine is almost 20 years old at this point, I snagged it out of a dumpster when a neighbor moved out of the apartment complex we lived in at the time. It was in rough shape at that point, but I rehabilitated it and it does well in just about any conditions.

   15. My pandemic hobby became houseplants. My favorite easy plants are pothos, spider plant, snake plant, aloe, and jade. For my daughter’s birthday a couple years ago the kids made fairy gardens and planted little succulents so I had some of those left over and those were easy to take care of. I also like orchids, bromeliads, and dragon tree.

2. I’m in Chicago next week for a four day conference, staying at the Fairmont downtown. I used to visit Chicago a lot as a kid and have been to all significant tourist attractions – long long time since my last visit though. Thoughts on good activities to fill most of a Sunday and then post-conference evenings? Willing to travel a bit if something is worth it.

   I’m usually a big garden and museum person, but time of year is late for gardens and museums don’t work well after conference days.

   All suggestions appreciated!!

   1. Garfield Park Conservatory is great year round and actually a place I go to warm up and peek myself up in the dead of winter. And the Art Institute is open until 8 on Thursdays if you’ll still be around then.

      1. Garfield Park Conservatory is a fabulous suggestion. It’s just off the green line if you choose to take the L. (It’s also in a bit of a rough area though, so I wouldn’t plan to do neighborhood walking if it’s your destination.) I don’t know if Lincoln Park Zoo Lights are up yet, but that’s also great–especially since you’ll have evenings open.

      2. These are great suggestions.

         The art institute’s special exhibits are exquisite eight now. I cried. Enter the side entrance, new wing for less crowds.

      3. Yes fabulous suggestion – so cozy

   2. I enjoyed the Frank Lloyd Wright walking tour in Oak Park, which you could do on Sunday.

   3. I strongly suggest a Chicago evening river cruise. It was fantastic!

   4. Looks like the weather will be nice! If you haven’t done the architectural boat tour, do that.

      All I want for post-conference evenings is good food and then my bed. Especially this time of year when it gets dark early. So many options for good food in Chicago. My random favorite is RPM Italian.

      1. Love RPM Italian!!

   5. Let me jump in here and ask a related question: I’ve never been to Chicago, what would be the best time of year to visit?

      1. Summer and early fall

         1. May and Sept/Oct are the best.
            summer is you don’t mind more crowds and heat/humidity

            1. Depends on your personal preferences, I guess. I much prefer June to May in Chicago. May can be COLD.

      2. May or June and September and early October wold be perfect times. We can get hot days in September, but days tend to be more mild these months. Lots of perfect days for exploring the city and enjoying the lake.

         If you dont love swampy crowds, Id avoid middle of summer with the hot hot days and summer festival crowds downtown.

         March through April can be rainy and cold still, and end of October starts to be hit or miss between 80 degrees or snow.

         1. Snow in early May is not unheard of. You need Memorial Day weekend or later for reliably mild weather.

   6. I went on an architecture tour that looped through the lake and went down the river. It was fantastic!

      I got a great massage at the Fairmont too.

   7. Eataly is great if you’re on your own. You can shop and then get a glass of wine in the upstairs bar area.

      In the evening, you could see a concert at the Salt Shed, catch some sets at Kingston Mines, or play pinball at Logan Arcade. I’d recommend Joffrey Ballet but we might be into Nutcracker season? CSO is also great.

      On Sunday, you could walk through Lincoln Park and have a drink + dinner at the bar at Gemini.

      It’s a trek but for food Daisies is EXCELLENT. Also delicious: Galit or Boka.

      Enjoy!

3. Just found out that new owners have knocked down my family’s historic, beautiful coastal New England home and built a hideous mega mansion in its place. Neighbors next door did the same. It looks awful and cheap, but beyond that, I just feed sad. It passed out of our family 50 years ago (couldn’t afford such a large house after deaths) and it still stings. Yes, I realize it’s a champagne problem. But f McMansions.

   1. At least you don’t have to live next door to it (I hope). My neighbor knocked down their house and built a huge 8000 sf house on a small lot that looks like a public building (think doctor’s office, school, library, city hall). It overshadows my midcentury ranch. I live with it, but I don’t have to like it.

      1. Just adding to my comment: I fully support their right to build anything they want. I just don’t like their taste in architecture.

         1. I hear you. My husband cries b/c our neighbor knocked down a new 2-car garage with finished living space over it (like the size of a house itself) to put in a pool. Pools are great, but the man lives for someday having a garage (for our beater cars) and possibly a woodshop and a place to watch football. At any rate, they are screechy preachy people with tons of yard signs. I figure: they have to sit there in a huge fancy house and look at us in our aluminum-sided FrankenRanch with our beater cars parked out front. Our view has professionally-hung Christmas lights up already and some signs roughly saying to Stick It To The Man.

            1. We are kindred spirits!

         2. One of the issues with this trend of building enormous houses that cannibalize the lot is rain becomes an issue; there’s no place for water to go, no more trees to drink it up, and flooding and erosion becomes big problems for the whole town. This is absolutely happening in New England.

            So no, you don’t have to support anybody’s right to build what they want! In a community everything is interconnected

         3. I honestly don’t support the right to destroy something historic and irreplaceable that could have been maintained for centuries to come. It’s a mistake that reflects poorly on the entire culture that makes decisions this way.

            1. Yessss we need to be stewards of history and respect the craftsmanship

      2. No, don’t have to live next to it, but the new McMansion spills to the edge of the lot. I’m sure the boat house (a tiny shack my family kept and continued to stay in) is next for demolition. All that was historic and charming is gone. The new house is so huge that I actually think a hurricane or sea level rise or both will affect it much faster than if they had maintained the old house size farther from the water line.

         1. nothing lasts. Everything is impermanent.

            1. Well sure. Everyone dies someday too. It’s not a good defense for destroying things before their time.

         2. That’s such a bummer. IDK where you’re located but I’m in a classic New England type town. We have so many charming smaller homes, expanded capes, and even some newer large homes that were just very tastefully designed! The non-new homes are being gobbled up and scraped for these gaudy farmhouse mcmansions. They are going to look SO brutally outdated and soon. We have a street near us that essentially goes classic home – classic home – classic home – FARMHOUSE – classic home – classic home – classic home – FARMHOUSE on repeat for a full mile. And don’t get me started on the black windows. It’s brutal.

            1. Wait, what’s wrong with black windows?

            2. JK – you said you’re in New England also! Reading comprehension fail on my part, but makes me totally understand the type of house and location you’re talking about.

               re: black windows – they’re just so trendy! Sure, they look fine enough today but they’re going to look very, very outdated and fast, I think. We have some new build farmhouse style-homes near me that actually don’t have black windows – more than a couple- so I’ve wondered recently if the trend is already coming to pass.

      3. I am someone who knocked down an old ranch house and built a bigger modern house. It’s complex! I have some guilt about starting over but the house did not have good bones and we weren’t left with much to work with. Renovating would have been even more difficult than knocking down because the foundation was stone and porous. Anyway – just another point of view. The house was in our family so we were tied to the lot and loved the neighborhood but renovating wasn’t really a wise option.

         1. I live in a 1910 house and have fantasies about living in newer construction all the time. We would have air conditioning and modern heating! Closets that aren’t taken out of a corner of the room! There would be space for a bathroom on the first floor. My house is beautiful but it was built in a different time for a different time.

      4. There’s a house down the street in my historic neighborhood (1906 in California is definitely historic!) that belonged to a lady who had lived there since the 1970s and died there recently. She had no heirs so the bank gets to auction it for their mortgage (apparently she had a reverse mortgage) and the city or county gets the rest. It’s attracted a lot of attention already as strangers came out of the woodwork claiming they were long-lost relatives so they could get a free $2mm house. It didn’t work.

         I’m so worried about what the auction winners are going to do to it. She was a hoarder and had cats that ruined the floors with their pee, so I get that it has to be gutted. I hope they at least keep the facade.

      5. I’m going to have to live with a new McMansion next door, oversized for the lot, blocking light, etc., next to my midcentury ranch, too! I’m not looking forward to the construction noise and vibrations, and I’m holding off on repaving my badly cracked driveway until the property next door is rebuilt, as the current plans include a new driveway right next to mine.

   2. Ugh I’m so sorry, losing quality well designed buildings is a tragedy. F*ck McMansions indeed. I just started the paperwork for historical protections on my home, I’m not letting some grubby developer destroy history and replace it with vinyl siding.

   3. Do you have any pictures of the old house? Perhaps having a professional sketch/watercolor of it to hang in your home might be a nice memory – lots of folks do this on Etsy!

      1. That’s a great idea! Thank you.

         1. Or, if you don’t want to look at it everyday, there are Etsy folks who do great house-specific, customized ornaments. I feel like the nostalgia of the family connection blends well with the annual tradition of pulling out the ornaments and decorating a tree.

            1. Another great idea. Do you have a recommendation for a shop?

            2. Replying to myself because I cannot reply to OP below. Try Onamentsbyfezziwigs

      2. A cousin commissioned a sketch like this of my mom’s house (our childhood home) when she passed away and we sold it. That sketch means much more now that the new owners tore it down.

   4. After my grandparents died, someone paid over $2M for their Colonial. 5 bedrooms, plus a finished basement, beautiful half acre lot, and it was torn down to build a monstrosity that doesn’t even fit properly in the lot.

      I didn’t think I was an “eat the rich” person but…..

      1. My in-laws have a lovely, classic, older home. It’s about 3500 square feet, 6 bedrooms, has good bones, gets beautiful light, etc. It’s located on a very desirable street, in a city in the SEUS. Lots on their street sell for about $1M. They are considering downsizing, and their house needs updating–the interior paint needs refreshing, the carpet upstairs needs to be replaced with more modern flooring, the bathrooms need updating. They consulted with a real estate agent about which projects to do to get the house ready to sell. The real estate agent advised that they do nothing because the ceilings downstairs are too low (9 feet), and anybody buying in their neighborhood would tear the house down.

   5. Always wild to read about genertional wealth problems like a historic New England house

      1. That, if you read my post, you would see we sold over 50 years ago because we didn’t have enough money to keep it. It wasn’t sold for much at that time either and it went towards maintaining a fatherless boy. In that part of New England, it’s only in the last 20ish years that it turned into an extremely wealthy area.

         That being said, I’ve been more fortunate than many. That’s not a gotcha – it’s a fact.

         1. I did read it. I found it amusing as I’m the first person in my family to buy a house on their own. 50 years ago, and 100 years ago, and 150 years ago, we didn’t own anything.

            1. OP here and I don’t own and can’t afford to (VHCOL area), so you win!

            2. Millions of people owned homes 50 years ago and they weren’t all wealthy.

            3. I also fall into the category of first home buyer ever (as far as we know in my family tree), but I love old houses, especially the New England ones, and felt a pang of loss at what OP described. That kind of charm is just nearly impossible to replicate in newer mcmansions and can be just stunning to look at.

            4. Yeah my enterprising yet poor immigrant shanty Irish great grandparents eventually owned a grocery store, a house, and eventually a vacation house. I have a masters degree and a “good job” and can’t afford a small condo let alone 2 houses.

            5. Ok 10:04 you win the suffering Olympics. Want a parade or will a commemorative coin suffice?

               Signed, also from a poor family

      2. You did catch the part where her family had to sell the house because they could not afford to keep it right?

         OP – My sympathies! I got a bit of flack here (not a lot but petty people will petty) when I posted about how happy I was that my grandmother bypassed her sons (and me and my cousins but we did not mind) to leave the family property to my sister because it would have hurt my soul to have the trees cut and house knocked down to build cookie cutter tract houses.

      3. This is such an a-hole comment. You did see that it was sold because nobody could afford it, right? Besides, family houses mean something. They hold our history and many of our memories. Can you be a little more sensitive to that?

   6. My parents sold the house I grew up in when I was 30, and the new owners lived in it for 8 years. I’d drive by every now and again and enjoyed seeing it. Once I drove by and saw it had been torn down and the lot had been cleared of every beautiful tree. I cried. It felt like the home of memories had been destroyed. I never expeected to live there again and whomever owned the property had every right to tear it down, but it was still sad for me. Now that there’s a generic McMansion on the lot, I don’t drive by anymore. All that to say, I understand how you’re feeling.

      1. That’s exactly it – my family hasn’t been there in a long time, I haven’t even seen it in almost ten years, but it’s still sad. The new house looks more like a massive clubhouse or something and it just does not have the feel of a beloved family home.

      2. The clear-cutting gets me every time. In my town, that’s the M.O. of every developer — tear down the house, clear-cut the lot, and then post online renderings online of new generic mansion surrounded by greenery and trees (which don’t exist due to said clear-cutting). Our town is “looking into preserving the canopy” and meanwhile bulldoze, bulldoze, bulldoze. At least the teardowns tend to be unremarkable ’70s style ranches; OP, I’d feel the same in your shoes. It’s sad to lose that history!

         1. I hate the clear-cutting. It doesn’t only make that property look bad; it makes the entire street look bad.

         2. I moved to my neighborhood for its canopy; I really hope this never happens here!

      3. This would make me sad too. My parents built a custom house when I was in high school – my dad was in the trades and did a lot of the work himself, and he knew a lot of people who subcontracted on the job and got the house built. It was such a process (and did not go smoothly, as house construction rarely does) but my parents were so proud of that house and all the aesthetic choices they got to make, to really make the house special, and feel like their very own. I would be terribly sad to see that house torn down, because even though I didn’t live there long, my parents put so much of themselves into it and we did make some happy memories there. I completely respect and understand that people are sad about losing a piece of their past, even if it wasn’t really “theirs” any more.

   7. I spent a big, meaningful part of my childhood in a garden apartment. We had the most gorgeous lilac tree in the backyard and big rose bushes that bloomed literally all summer into October. Eventually the whole thing got sold and the new owners tore out everything to pave the backyard for parking. I cried and cried. Obviously it’s the owners right to do what they want and parking in NYC is always a premium but it still sucks to see a part of your childhood literally torn out. There is a passage in the Catcher in the Rye that always comes to mind when I think about it, where Holden goes to the Museum of Natural History and laments that you can’t just put some things in a glass case, so that they could stay there, the same, forever. I’m sorry OP.

      1. We moved during our pandemic, selling our ground floor flat with a postage stamp garden. It was December 2020, we were heading back into lockdown, and digging up the monkey puzzle tree seemed like a bridge too far so we left it but we went back for a misdirected parcel the next summer and they had pulled it out. We should have dug it up and brought it with us.

      2. Ohhh, now I’m sad for you and OP. Some memories are so bittersweet.

   8. My husband grew up in preston hollow in Dallas. When his parents downsized, the only choice was to sell it to a builder. His ~4500sq ft family home in beautiful shape was leveled, all the trees were taken down, and now a nearly 20,000sq ft mansion sits on the lot.

      His parents knew what was going to happen and just had to mentally adjust. Even if they sold it to a family that wanted to live in it as-is, it would only be a couple years before it got flipped. That whole area has changed from a nice upper middle class neighborhood of 50s-70s ranches to where the Bushes live.

      They sold for something insane, millions in cash. The builder told them they could keep whatever they wanted as it was a tear down so they salvaged all the “good doors,” counters, appliances, hardware, etc. and put it in a storage unit for DH and his siblings and/or charity. It eventually all went to habitat and I smile thinking about the family that got $10k doors in their new place :).

      1. Your DH and I might have been neighbors. I also grew up in Preston Hollow. So many fabulous trees are gone now.

   9. I hate to see old houses get taken down. My parents moved and sold my childhood house, a beautiful Craftsman in perfect condition; to a man who turned out to be a hoarder. It caught fire, and the fire department couldn’t get in to save it. My mom cried when she found out. Houses become part of our families, and it’s sad to see them go.

   10. You know, HOA’s get a lot of flack on here and elsehwere, and deservedly so, but… in our neighborhood almost every house that gets sold is torn down and a bigger house gets put in its place. They’re horrible inside — all flash and cheap-but-glitzy finishes and ridiculous features like dedicated home theatres. BUT… thanks to the HOA and the CC&Rs, at least they are required to have decent setbacks from the lot line, and at least the outsides aren’t allowed to be hideous plain boxes — they have to look like actual houses. So walking or driving down the street is still pleasant.

       Anyway, I feel your pain, OP.

   11. I feel you. We’re likely to be in a similar boat selling our coastal New England family house within the next couple of years. We also cannot afford to keep it, because the property taxes and maintenance vastly exceed what we can make renting it out year-round, and we had a lot of problems when it was unoccupied all winter long. It was my grandparents’ full-time residence (and my grandather designed and helped build it) so I really hate the idea of it being torn down, but the land is more valuable than the house at this point and pretty much everyone who can afford to buy in that area wants a huge house so the reality is that any buyer will tear it down.
       It is a loss – it’s ok to grieve it.

   12. I’m sorry, this hurts. I live in neighborhood of primarily nice 1940s-vintage 3/2 brick colonials, with a smattering of cute bungalows and cape cods… the tear-down/rebuild flips have started coming in the last few years, and I hate it. There are fewer than 10 so far, but 3 are going up right now and they’re such eyesores. I feel for the people living next to them; lots are small, so the big new houses dwarf their neighbors and shade/block all the windows, even ones on the second floor.

       +1 to the suggestions to commission some art of the old house. We have a watercolor of our current house, and I love it. There are artists working in every style imaginable who create architecture art!

4. anyone have a rec for a washable shoe bag to put my gym shoes in for carting to and from the gym? ideally the bag would have a small side pocket to put my keys in it

   1. I have a bunch of those little nylon drawstring “backpack” bags they give out at 5k races and they are perfect for gym shoes.

5. Rough guesses, please, for the chance that an old person voluntarily gives up driving when it’s time.

   Also, rough guesses, for whether “it’s time” has a clear time to start being on the lookout. 90? 85?

   1. This was the very hardest part about my my grandmother aging. She went more willingly to assisted living (albeit still definitely fighting) than she gave over her keys. There’s no right time. I had a family member stop driving at 75 and another at 95. Everyone is just so very different.

      The only two times I’ve been closely in the loop of the effort were for family members and it was more or less done by total and complete force. Maybe others have better stories but how it goes down is definitely a function of the individual, their state of mind, overall demeanor, etc.

      Good luck. This is HARD stuff.

   2. based on my and my husband’s collective 8: 12.5%. Far likelier to stop driving after dark than driving at all, though.

      age depends on the person – but between vision troubles and slowing reaction times, 85-90 was the range that they all SHOULD have stopped on their own.

   3. I have a friend who is a geriatrics doctor and she says that old people NEVER give it up voluntarily. Only when they’re forced to by a doctor. It’s actually easier on the family if it comes from the doctor and not from them.

      1. That was not the experience in my family. Due to step-grandparents, I had six (down to one who stopped driving without discussion at 90) and of the four who lived long enough for it to be an issue, all of them gave up driving voluntarily in their 80s and 90s as their health dictated. The one who drove into her 90s needed a tiny push, but when we went to look at her car, the battery was dead so her protests were mostly symbolic.

         One of my grandfathers was still an excellent driver at 86 when he died. My father is 75 and we are working to convince him to stop driving – or at least stop driving except locally – because his back problems are making his reaction time terrible. There is no one answer. And as others have noted, a lot depends on the options available. The grandmother who stopped driving at 90 had one of her sons living with her after his divorce and he is (happily) waiting on her hand and foot in exchange for free housing. Given where she lives and the lack of resources it would have been much harder if she didn’t have that support.

   4. When this happened with my relative, we had a stroke of luck and discovered that her license had actually expired within the last year. Normally you could auto renew, but there was a mechanism at her DMV to say “I’m concerned about this driver’s safety, please bring them in for testing before renewal.” That saved us because she couldn’t pass the vision test or written exam.

      1. Y’all’s elderly relatives are way more law abiding than mine if an expired license will keep them from driving.

         1. Right? We had to take parts out of my grandfather’s car to keep him from driving after his license expired (and we knew he would never be able to renew it), even though he had been the most “law-and-order-follow-the-rules” person you’d ever meet, prior to this. My uncle pulled some parts out that kept the car from starting. Then we had it “towed to the repair shop” (aka my uncle’s garage). Once it was out of sight, my grandfather seemed to give up on getting it back. I think he knew what we’d done, so we ended up in this kind of detente with him – don’t ask for the car back, and we won’t have to have an uncomfortable conversation about why you can’t have it.

            OP – for reference, my grandfather was 77 when this happened and was in congestive heart failure. He died two years later. I firmly believe if we had not taken action, he would have kept driving until he wrecked and killed himself and possibly other people. The risks are too high with letting people who are not competent to drive continue to do so; you are likely going to have to take some proactive steps here, sooner than you want to.

            1. I’m super late to comment – but thank you for this. My Aunt, who was 39 at the time, was killed in a car accident 20 years ago because an elderly woman who shouldn’t have been driving had a medical emergency while she was driving and ran her over in a parking lot. Apparently her family had not been able to convince her to stop driving and then she killed my Aunt. So, thank you for potentially preventing this from happening to someone else.

         2. I’m the one who posted that and it wasn’t foolproof – she drove at least twice for short local trips on an expired license. We put the fear of God into her about that (“you could be sued and lose your house”) and then disabled her car.

   5. My father never gave up and he died at 97 – but I wasn’t happy about it. He drove locally only the last few years. My mother continued driving until around 86 when she moved to a different state and wasn’t sure she could get a license without a road test. Most older adults don’t want to give up the keys.

      1. My great grandmother lived til 110 and stopped driving at 95, but until that point, she lived in a town of 500 people, and people would see her pootling to church in a giant Buick and get out of her way.

         1. 110? Omg!

            1. She was amazing, an absolute gem of a human being. She mowed her acreage on a riding mower. I think she missed that mower more than her car.

         2. Omg we had almost the same grandmother. I posted about mine below before reading yours.

            My grandmother drove Mercurys. She didn’t like Fords.

   6. Easier if they live in a city where there’s Uber.

   7. I’m wondering if Uber might make it easier for older people to stop driving. I have an elderly relative who no longer wants to drive on highways or after dark, so when he needs to go to those places, we arrange an Uber for him. It’s worked pretty well (he lives in the suburbs, so there aren’t taxis wandering around and calling the local taxi company, it’s less than a 50% chance they’ll actually show up).

   8. I’ve never met a senior citizen who willingly gave up their license. When I worked at a car dealership I had so many repeat offenders who were on their 5+ accident in a year and it was a miracle they didn’t kill a child yet.

      1. My grandmother did, in her mid-80s. My mom doesn’t expect to drive much past 80.

   9. Oof my MIL still insists on driving. She’s only in her 70s but has eye problems and is so scatty, so we’re waiting for the call that she’s had an accident. She says she only drives locally, but locally is London… so lots of motorbikes, cyclists, pedestrians. The eye doctor said her vision was OK so you can’t argue with her, but we worry about it loads. She goes to the wrong train platform because she can’t read the signs, etc.

      My parents are younger – 65, but their plan is to move into a flat in a neighbouring town when they can no longer drive so they can walk to the doctor, market, etc (they retired to Southern Europe, so a car-free life is totally doable)

      1. If locally is London, at least the speed limits are low…?…

   10. Depends on the person. One grandpa drove fine until he died-80s, another had to stop mid-70s (vision). Still have a mid/late 80s grandma driving but her radius is very limited… think the routes your parents had you drive while learning to drive. Another sold her car when she moved (late 70s) and never bought a new one (but in city with excellent transit… e.g., some 20-somethings still don’t have licenses).

   11. I don’t think there’s a clear age for it. My mother gave up driving voluntarily because of her reaction times at around 70. But she had my father to drive her around.

       He, on the other hand, didn’t give it up voluntarily. I talked to his PCP who did a cursory exam (it was VERY clear he shouldn’t be driving). The PCP then told him he couldn’t drive anymore. As a last act of rebellion, he dug out a spare key no one knew about, drove his truck in the middle of the night, and had a wreck. Luckily he didn’t hurt anyone else, but the truck was totaled. Everyone in the family then refused to drive him to buy another vehicle. He died about 6 months later.

       1. This made me chuckle. Thanks for sharing :)

          1. He was nothing if not stubborn!

             The whole ordeal surprised no one, so luckily we were all prepared for it.

          2. Chuckle? It’s sad.

       2. My father had to give up driving a few years ago due to early onset dementia. Wildly, he definitely put up a fight but his neurologist finally convinced him and got my stepmom to hide the keys.

          He’d had two solo accidents, one of which was getting lost at night and driving his car far into the woods down a dirt track. Luckily a police officer found him. It was so awful, and I’m relieved nothing worse happened. Now, his life is definitely shrinking but he absolutely couldn’t drive at that point. I think neurological problems are harder to accept as a family as they can come earlier and no one wants those to be there.

          1. The lack of insight challenge is real.

             I know someone older whose social media activity has started showing signs of significant confusion. There are people in her life looking out for her, but it’s a strange feeling seeing her post about how her keys are missing or her car has an issue because my guess is that those aren’t misfortunes but interventions.

   12. In my experience, -100%. My grandfather had a license but never drove. He lived in the same walkable town his entire life and my grandmother drove everywhere else. My grandmother passed when he was 80 and he decided that was the time to START driving.

   13. I know many women that stopped driving voluntarily. With men, there’s been more pushback. One of my grandfathers had vision problems and had no problem stopping (they had deliberately moved to an apartment near us with delivery services so he wouldn’t have to). The other had dementia and had no idea that there were any issues so it was a real struggle.

   14. It has been earlier than that for the men in my family, so be on the lookout before 85. I know people typically retire to coastal towns but I am beginning to understand why my mother insisted on moving to a major city with public transit for her last home.

   15. I think it depends so much on the person and also their physical health.

       I don’t remember my grandpa giving up driving, but (younger) grandmother kind of just took over for him. He was sick with cancer, so it kind of just happened. My grandma quite willingly gave up driving and fully adapted to being drove around for the last ~5 years of her life. She had a friendly loving regal air about her, so it was pretty natural. She kept her car so she could pay for the expenses and gas and felt less “burdensome” on others. It probably helped that there were a good amount of family around that could drive her and were very happy to do so.

       On the other hand – My dad and grandma had to take away my great uncle’s driving privileges after he hit the gas instead of break while pulling up into a parking spot at church. It was very, very lucky that he went flying into an empty field – but kids commonly played there, and it scared the heck out of everyone. I was coming out of the church with my grandmother and remember her turning to me and urgently telling me to go get my dad. I had my learners permit at the time (and was a pretty good driver) and I remember they used me needing driving experience as an excuse to get him to stop driving – I started driving them back and forth to church. He was in his late 80s and very soon after that it became clear that he had dementia, which became more pronounced over the next few years.

       My maternal grandpa died earlier this year of an extremely fast moving mesothelioma. Two months prior he was fully functional, so the conversation never really had to happen. If he would have lived longer into his 90s, I could have imagined that he would have struggled with willingly giving up driving. My maternal grandmother is gradually willingly giving it up; she drives during the day but not during the night, and has really clear self-imposed boundaries of when she will drive.

   16. I have never known anyone to give it up voluntarily, unfortunately. My mom is in her late 60s and no longer is willing to take the interstate at night, but that’s the only voluntary restriction I have EVER seen my relatives put on themselves. It is a problem.

   17. My grandmother finally surrendered her license this year at 99. For the last year or so her kids had hidden the keys so she couldn’t actually drive.

   18. Of my 3 grandparents who lived into old age, all 3 gave it up voluntarily, but they also all had someone they could rely on to help them.

       My grandmother never liked driving so she was happy to give it up and let my grandfather chauffeur her. She probably stoped driving at night in her early to mid 70s and driving altogether in her mid to late 70s, and died at 80.

       After she died, my grandfather moved to a retirement community and he eventually stopped driving at 91 after starting a new medication that had a side effect that could cause seizures. It was entirely his choice (plenty of people drive while taking thus medication) and he never had a seizure, but he chose to err on the side of caution and stop driving. He was even still driving at night and on highways when he stopped driving (and having been his passenger, he was still a safe driver). Since he was in a retirement community his needs were all taken care of in house and 3 of his kids / / their spouses / several old enough grandchildren lived nearby and could help him run errands or take him to appointments.

       My other grandfather stopped driving at night in his mid 80s and stopped driving altogether in his early 90s. He probably should have stopped about a year before he did. My grandmother died young and his second wife was enough younger that she could be their driver (ironically she’s a bad driver regardless of age). He also had plenty of nearby kids / in-laws / driving age grandkids to assist when his wife couldn’t (she only retired a few years before he died). My grandmother died at 62 so did not live long enough for this to be an issue.

       All this to say – a) I have seen plenty of older people give it up on their own and mostly at the right age. B) it’s a LOT easier for them to give it up when they have plenty of alternatives – especially family nearby to assist.

       1. This is where my family will struggle. Everyone moves away. Most people are rural.

          One relative with dementia hasn’t been told that a sibling is dying because the family is afraid that she will try to drive to see her, no matter that half the time she isn’t sure who her husband is, she’d try to drive 12 hours to a place she has never been before. She doesn’t usually drive, but might not remember that. Her husband has a car and she could take the keys while he is asleep or walking the dog.

   19. Does the person have someone to drive them? Shockingly, my 85 year old FIL has not officially given it up, but he now defers to any available adult driver to drive him, including my 18 year old nephew. That’s a pretty clear sign he shouldn’t drive at all but we know actually pointing that out will have the reverse effect. My MIL is still alive and a capable driver. If she were not around it would be another story entirely.

       With my grandmother, having the car and driving it were two different things. She wanted the emotional comfort of having *her* car. Which she never, ever drove. We always made a point of taking her car when we drove her for appointments.

   20. My mother and my mother in law both voluntarily stopped. My mother lived in a community with excellent senior transportation services and she was happily able to use those. My mil relies on me and her daughter to drive her and she is demanding and annoying about it.

   21. In my family’s experience, 0%. I’ve looked into how to report this driver to the state’s DMV for a “review” as no family member is willing to take the keys away personally and face their wrath. It’s been incredibly unpleasant.

   22. It depends on the person and the type of driving they’re doing. Many of my relatives have voluntarily given up nighttime and long distance driving. Highway driving can require a bit more pressure. My grandfather didn’t give it up until we saw him stop and reverse in the middle of a highway because he missed his exit, but he continued to drive (less than one mile with a 15 mph limit) to his doctor’s appointments almost until his death. His sister didn’t give it up until she drove herself off the road (likely alcohol + meds). The family told her she gives up her two Manhattan a day habit or she gives up driving. She gave up driving. They had to take her car to stop her completely, though (and by “take” I mean lean on her to give the car to her favorite young person who was going off to college in an area that required a car).

   23. Rand has done some interesting research on older drivers and the relative risk if anyone is interested. The abstract is here:
       https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9272.html#:~:text=Drivers%2065%20and%20older%20are,drivers%20to%20cause%20an%20accident.

       But the studies are worth reading for people interested in statistics.

       1. I’m confused by the rhetoric of this abstract. Older drivers cause a ton of accidents and the risk of fatalities is high, which means it’s not really a problem, somehow, and the real problem is young drivers?

          Wish we would get serious about support and alternatives for people who cannot drive for any reason. People who can’t drive safely would give it up more readily if it didn’t mean being excluded from society.

          1. Older drivers are more likely to die in accidents because they are frailer not because they are worse drivers. I think the point was that older drivers are more likely to get into accidents than drivers 25-65, but not as much more likely as many people assume. And much less likely than someone under 25.

             There is a tendency to lump all “older” drivers together and assume they are much worse drivers and the data does not support that.

             I tend to agree about support and alternatives, but I question how practical that is outside of major cities.

   24. I think it depends, but around 80 I would start to pay more attention to their general state of health, reaction time, alertness etc.

       My FIL is 84 and never had a license, so all driving has to be done by MIL (73). She has hearing aids, but definitely some trouble understanding people, background noises etc, so I’m worried that she won’t hear sirens etc.
       They live in a city so cabs or Uber would be a good alternative – we may push this as early as we can.

       My parents are in their mid-60s, both driving well, but my mother is definitely not comfortable anymore driving to unknown places, longer distances, in the big city closeby, on highways etc. So here is your reminder: Please don’t leave major driving to your partner/spouse until you’re not comfortable anymore. (Same as for finances, household chores etc).

   25. My experience on this has been good, but my friends’ experience has been mixed. My mother-in-law gave up driving voluntarily because she was literally going blind and nothing could be done. My mother gave up driving at night when her cataracts got bad but weren’t bad enough for surgery, then resumed after they were removed. She quit driving entirely, voluntarily and of her own accord, at 79 when she was concerned that her forgetfulness would result in her getting somewhere and not knowing how to get home. The fact that she’s never gotten comfortable with a smartphone and therefore wouldn’t use a maps app to help her get around no doubt contributed to this. Both my father and my father-in-law still drive at 80 and appear to still be safe drivers. That said, I’m certain taking the keys away from my dad, should it become necessary, would not go smoothly. Meanwhile I have several friends who’ve had to take keys away from their parents in their 70s and 80s and it has not gone smoothly for them. I think the age when it becomes necessary varies wildly based on the person’s physical and cognitive health. My state requires in-person license renewal with a vision test beyond a certain age, maybe 75, and at that point will require a driving test if prompted by notice from someone with knowledge and concern about the person’s driving. I do think that sort of policy is helpful in these situations, but I realize that not every state has that available.

   26. Women give it up more easily than men in my experience.

       I don’t think there is a clear age-based benchmark. Some (probably not many) 90 year olds are fine to drive; some 70 year olds aren’t. My mom is 71 and I have no concerns about her driving, although she already doesn’t like driving at night and in inclement weather and tries to avoid it as much as possible. They’re local to us, so she expects to phase out driving within 10 years and rely on me and Lyft for transportation (which is fine with me). My dad has never driven.

   27. Will be really dependent on health and circumstance (are they on rural roads with few other options to get groceries, etc.) My dad has been gone for about 10 years now and I’m still furious at the time he almost killed us driving back from breakfast because he didn’t want to let my mother or me drive. He refused to merge with another car and we were nearly run off the road because his spatial awareness was so poor. He was terminally ill and had difficulty walking and my mom kept saying it was the one bit of freedom he still had. I about threw up I was so shaken and they both acted like nothing happened.

   28. It’s super hard. My grandfather never stopped before he died in his 90s, but at least he really only went to the grocery store and the doctor in a very suburban part of Seattle. My grandmother was happy to let him drive most of her life, and I don’t think she drove much (or at all) after the first Bush administration. My other grandmother stopped when she moved into assisted living, though she did bring her car with her to the place.

       My mom and dad are in their late 70s, and my dad is now sort of hyper-careful (always drives the speed limit, very cautious) which actually makes me more nervous because he doesn’t always go with the flow of traffic. My mom doesn’t want to do much driving, and I anticipate that she will stop in the next 5 years or so.

       As for my mid 80s in-laws, my FIL is the driver, and he pretty much only drives during the day. MIL claims that there is some sort of test that prevents her from driving their Tesla, but I think she’s just covering for the fact that she has stopped driving altogether. It’s a good thing if she stopped TBH.

   29. My grandmother, who lived in a rural area, drove well into her 90s. I suppose it was a practical matter for her – it was the only way to get groceries. But I certainly worried someone else would be on the road when she was driving. My mom said everyone recognized her car and just “got out of the way.” Doesn’t sound like a great safety plan to me! But anyway, in her late 90s she ended up bedridden due to spinal issues and that at least got her off the road until she passed away at 98.

   30. I think I have posted about this here before, but be careful about “taking“ keys away from elderly relatives. Some family members did that to one of my grandfathers, and he responded by calling the police. Fortunately, he declined the press charges, but the police retrieved his keys and gave them back to him, because, as they explained, the fact that he was old did not mean he was unable to make his own decisions.

       Also, as with so many other things involving older people, I would highly recommend everyone posting here make a note of what age they think people should consider not driving and be prepared to give up their own cars when that time comes.

       1. I purchased an urban brownstone for exactly this reason, I rarely drive anyways but when I’m older I will not selfishly and stubbornly make myself a public safety hazard.

       2. Yes! I’m the poster above whose father ended up totaling his vehicle and no one would take him to get a new one.

          We ran into this issue a lot. He was not making good or safe decisions, but he was mentally competent so we couldn’t just force him to do whatever we wanted.

          People don’t always understand that elderly people are still adults who can make terrible decisions if they want.

          1. Adults of any age can have their license taken away if they’re not fit to drive.

   31. I’m pretty worried for my FIL who is 76 and still driving. He had a minor accident this year, and when he drove us on a recent visit, he did not drive very competently. Ran over the curb when taking a turn, no shoulder glance when switching lanes on the highway, thank god the car has the assist things that beep at you, although he is generally getting worse at hearing beeping sounds. The one time when his son drove, FIL was a super nervous back-seat driver. Meanwhile, he lives in a super walkable community with solid public transport, and his nephew+wife are next door and regularly willing to drive him places. In fact, their helpfulness and how nice they are to the old man is apparently the reason we need to make nice with them being openly racist and listen to stuff like ‘all people of X nationality are dirty’ at the dinner table. Still giving up the car is not a discussion.

   32. My mom did. She told me that she was having to consciously think about the parts of driving that should be automatic. Like slowing down coming to a stop sign or watching for kids in a school zone. I told her that if she couldn’t do that without having to think about it, she needed to hand over her keys. I asked her how she would feel if she hit a dog or a child. She stopped and thought about it for a bit. Then she said that she would want to kill herself. She paused for a bit longer, then she said that she wasn’t going to drive again. She didn’t.

       My dad. Oh boy. Getting his keys from him will involve either a locked nursing home or a casket.

       1. This makes me nervous to read since this is how I drove for years (w/unmedicated ADHD).

6. Where are the mid career, 150-200k salary girlies shopping for home goods now? I recently bought and moved into my first home (yay!) and I am working on furnishing it – for instance, now I have more than one bathroom so I need another bathmat, and as my particleboard furniture wears outs from being taken apart and put back together too many times I am replacing it. I am trying to do this in an intentional way and not just drop a bundle at Target/Amazon, but while I have a healthy budget it’s not unlimited (see again: just bought house.) Trying to find a middle ground for good quality, reasonably priced home goods. Bonus points if anyone has local physical store recs in the DC area!

   1. For utility items like bathmats and such, still Target and Ikea, but also Lands End for towels and bath mats. BigLaw, but apparently I’m basic due to years being scared sh*tless about now-paid student loans.

   2. Article

      1. fb marketplace for furniture absolutely, esp in dc (i have purchased a very nice slipcovered crate and barrel sofa, pottery barn sofa tables, hallway benches, hallway pendant lights, high end wicker, an english pine island for my kitchen, etc). Lucketts in Va also for lamps, artwork (they have pretty botanicals, nicely framed). Home goods and Amazon for kitchenware, pillows. Crate and barrel for dishes.. I am not above getting a a cute lamp or two from Lowe’s. But I have leaned toward sconces from Ballard and I like their suzanne Kessler table lamps and corful, printed lamp shades. Striped Rugs from Annie selke/ dash and Albert, antique runners from eBay. My style is modern Country/Traditional but all these sources can accommodate various styles, I woukd think. Have fun!

         1. Also in the DMV and seconding Facebook Marketplace. There is a lot of junk, for sure, but also great stuff if you are patient for a minute. Shout out to Home Depot for cheap, 75 minute van and truck rentals.

   3. Don’t try to refurnish your whole house at once, you’ll get sticker shock and that’s how you end up with cheap stuff. What is most important to you? For me it’s a couch and a bed, I couldn’t care less about my TV stand or kitchen table. I went to Ethan Allen. A friend has a beautiful couch from Pottery Barn. I have some stuff from Wayfair and I haven’t been overly impressed with quality, though customer service is pretty good. I think all of my outdoor furniture is Wayfair; I’m not convinced that expensive stuff will be more durable considering everything lives outside.

   4. Macy’s for linens and kitchenware.

   5. Crate & Barrel, CB2, West Elm, Article, Hay…nothing too exciting so looking forward to seeing recommendations here!

   6. If you’re willing to drive a bit, I highly recommend Green Front Furniture in Farmville.
      Also, FB marketplace…there’s a ton of great, high quality furniture available, I think in part because this area can be fairly tr@nsient so there are lots of listings for people who are moving and can’t take, say, their nearly brand new sectional.

   7. Congrats on you new house! And it really depends. We have plenty of Target, Wayfair, HomeGoods, and Amazon-level home goods, with Crate & Barrel and Pottery Barn mixed in. World Market has a sneaky good home goods selection, especially for dishware and textile-based stuff like curtains and rugs; they have a few stores in NOVA.

      We relied heavily on local secondhand stores for furniture. Our local Habitat ReStore was a godsend and there are plenty of them in the DMV. Don’t forget about Costco if you have access to a membership–they had some great couches. Although we still ended up driving one down from the Ikea in Woodbridge so YMMV :)

   8. Re-posting because I used a mod word…

      If you’re willing to drive a bit, I highly recommend Green Front Furniture in Farmville.
      Also, FB marketplace…there’s a ton of great, high quality furniture available, I think in part because this area can have a lot of turnover, so there are lots of listings for people who are moving and can’t take, say, their nearly brand new sectional.

      1. Yes to this – we have some great pieces in our house from diplomats who were reassigned after less than a year and basically liquidated their home for cheap.

         Green Front is great but overwhelming – it helps if you have a very specific idea of what you want. There’s a Crate and Barrel outlet in Old Town Alexandria that gets good things (especially custom ordered pieces that were returned) but is very hit or miss. If you want a little higher end, Creative Classics in Old Town carries a lot of solid American furniture lines, most of it special order, but their sales people are great and they are used to working with the small homes in the area. If you go out by Dulles, along Route 28 there are a bunch of mid-range furniture stores like Belfort.

         At Home stores (one in Laurel and one in Kingstowne) can be fun to visit, they are sort of giant HomeGoods.

         My #1 tip is to have every single measurement for every room saved on your phone. So that when you see great curtains or rugs or furniture, you can make an informed decision.

   9. Nordstrom towels were featured here a while ago. I got them on sale and love them, so plush.

      Has anyone gotten bath towels from Anthropologie? Some super pretty towels are following me around FB/insta but my local store doesn’t carry linens so I can’t tell if the fabric is a good quality.

   10. +1 to Macy’s for linens and towels! HomeGoods also often has some good furniture/rugs that don’t break the bank. I’ve scored some nice Pottery Barn pieces on super sale too if you can wait and watch the price

   11. I have had good luck with furniture at raymour and flanigan. Some stuff there is ugly but the things I’ve found are a good balance in price and quality between ikea and pottery barn.

   12. Buy as much as you can second hand to get high quality at reasonable prices. Furniture (especially wood), decor, knickknacks, wall art, mirrors–all are good to buy second hand. In DC, visit Goodwood and Miss Pixie’s.

       1. Ryan’s Relics in Baltimore

   13. I still buy a lot of things at Target or Marshall’s/Home Goods. I don’t feel the need to get bougie with things like bathmats, etc. Home Goods always seems to have some kind of “elevated” bath mat (memory foam, etc.) that matches my bathroom when I need to make a replacement, so that’s fine for me. Kitchen towels, bath towels, etc. – I think there’s a level of “this is pretty darn good” you can achieve at Home Goods or Target. I am picky about sheets but my 100% linen sheets (all I can sleep on these days, thanks to perimenopause night sweats) are from Target.

       In terms of furniture, we have a lot of antique/vintage furniture so we don’t buy much. Our current couch came from Costco after we shopped all the furniture stores in town and couldn’t find something we liked as much as the couch we’d seen at our local warehouse. I’ve gotten some pieces from Wayfair I really like, even if they’re part particleboard. Our HHI is $260k but I don’t feel the need to replace all our furniture with “fancier” stuff; I like what we have and have made it work in our current house.

       This is my $.02 and you can take it or leave it: after doing a lot of furniture shopping over the years, there’s not much new furniture out there that can hold a candle to the construction of older (not necessarily antique) furniture. As Ikea became ubiquitous, a lot of manufacturers that didn’t have to cheap out on materials or construction did anyway. For things like couches, we buy new; otherwise we look for vintage/antique pieces as they tend to be better quality. You can find good bargains on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, etc. Just food for thought.

   14. It’s been said before here, but a day trip into Frederick (Md) can yield some fun items, everything from the more traditional (in the larger indoor antique market on West Patrick street) to fun kitchen items/dishes, lamps, etc in some of the smaller stores.

   15. Honestly, Wayfair and Target. But:
       1. Don’t do it all at once.
       2. Set yourself a budget – a recent example for me would be $2K for a rug, a coffee table, some entryway bookshelves, a daybed frame and a couple of dining room chairs.
       3. Look for high-quality items that last. For instance, I filter Wayfair for solid wood items and wool rugs rather than polyester, and sometimes get stuff from FB Marketplace.

   16. Costco for towels. By far the plushest I’ve had. Read the reviews because they have many styles on the web page.

   17. If you’re willing to be patient, you can do amazingly well at estate sales.

       In addition to the online sites mentioned, I got a sofa I loved at Apt2b dot com. Also I got my kitchen table from Castlery dot com and it’s great. I got my towels at Target and have been happy with them. I use these sheets from Amazon and love them (in white): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09KC2B9SR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

       My everyday dishes are white Fiestaware. Looks like they’re on sale at Kohl’s right now but they’re always on sale somewhere.

   18. If you’re at all interested in the thrill of the chase and antiques, there are a bunch of stores in the U Street corridor that are fun to peruse. Also Room & Board, West Elm and other new goods … my husband and I used to go wander through them almost every weekend when we first bought our house!

   19. My HHI is a little higher than yours but in my case the answer is FB marketplace,
       Homegoods, and an occasional splurge piece from Ethan Allen. I turn 40 this year and I’m finally getting myself the $2k chair I’ve been eyeballing for 3 years.

   20. Secondhand for wood furniture and china.

       Everything else slooooowly for budget reasons but basically things catch my eye online and I wait for them to go on sale.

       Target for towels and things like that.

       I’m a big believer that the best rugs are traditional Persian design rugs, whether they’re “real” or not, because everything goes with them. I have one antique, the rest are modern versions (I did recently discover at a rug warehouse having a sale that I could get a 5×7 real wool rug for the same price as a similar acrylic rug so that was a no-brained.)

   21. You might consider online second-hand marts, like Kaiyo and Bucks County Estate Sales. I bought a dining table and a several of Ethan Allen dining chairs (all second-hand) from Kaiyo. I re-upholstered the seat of two dining chairs at Rainbow Upholster in Annandale — the proprietor is a retired professional upholsterer who works out of a shed in his suburban backyard and has reupholstered four simple chairs for me (so far). Hearthside Home (based in Maryland, with a presence on Etsy) was the source of a second-hand mid-century modern credenza. I got a chest of drawers dating to the 1940’s, a pair of gorgeous lampshades (for which I bought a pair of floor lamps), a vintage filing cabinet, and a beautiful wood-inlaid “bachelor’s” chest of drawers from Bucks County. All done over time, when I spotted the items in periodic peeks online.

7. I got a contingent offer for a state gov job on the 27th. Dropped off notarized paperwork for the background check on the 2nd, was told the checks take between 24 and 48 hours and that I’d get the official offer once it cleared.
   Would you:
   – call the hiring manager tomorrow
   – call the hiring manager Monday
   – do nothing, sit tight and keep applying to other jobs?
   I’m probably more excited about this job than I should be, which is affecting my perspective.

   1. I’d call the hiring manager. I will note that some state offices might be closed tomorrow for Veteran’s Day.

   2. I’d call tomorrow or Monday. The hiring manager probably didn’t get the info until Monday or Tuesday if it took 48 hours and then you were into the weekend. If you’re excited about the job and want it, go after it! Hope you get the position.

   3. I’d call on Monday. I’ve worked in all levels of government (and am currently awaiting results of a background check for a federal job that I’m very excited about, and this stuff is SLOW. Upcoming holidays will only make it slower. And, I’d assume all state offices are closed tomorrow.

   4. Thanks all! I’ll plan to call Monday.

8. My MIL gifted me $200 for a milestone birthday this week. Suggestions for a physical, slightly special thing I can buy myself? I walked around the mall and nothing caught my eye. I’m feeling uninspired and depressed about my bday, but would like to mark it somehow.

   1. Start a collection, I like bracelets for milestones. It’s fun to look at your wrist and recall what things were for.

      1. I started a bracelet collection this summer. The first (and currently only) one was to mark a significant event in my life. I bought an engraved one on Etsy so it was only about $40. That won’t get you to the number you’re looking for unless you have several you want to purchase. I plan to make them all small, dainty is the word someone used, so they stack easily on my wrist. Historically I hated wearing bracelets, but I’ve really enjoyed wearing this one – both because of the memories it brings and because it’s small and isn’t in my way when I’m working.

         Happy birthday!! I’m sorry it was a sh-t birthday.

   2. Hmm, is there something slightly over $200 that you really want that you can use this money towards? Dyson hair tool, special bottle of perfume, makeover at Sephora and then a few special products? If you live somewhere cold what about a good thick robe, flannel pjs, soft socks, or Ugg slippers (I caved and bought them for my last birthday and they really are amazing!). And happy birthday by the way!

   3. I would buy a fabulous pair of jewelry you can wear everyday. I would go for earrings, but that’s me.

      1. Oh, and Happy Birthday!

   4. I always like jewelry for special occasions, Mejuri has pieces in that price range.

   5. maybe i’m different, but if there is nothing you want right now, save it for when you find something you do want

   6. Happy birthday! My vote is to start a bracelet collection too! Never wore them til recently when I rediscovered some dainty inherited ones that I now wear as a little stack. Now off to find a secondhand diamond tennis bracelet so that is my contribution to the stack:)

   7. How about a nice handbag or watch?

   8. Something ridiculous but fun, like this ice cream cone planter: https://www.thirddrawerdown.com/products/giant-ice-cream-cone-planter.

      I once received a vintage camel saddle as a gift and although it serves no real purpose it’s just such a fun, weird thing.

   9. Is there a luxury upgrade to something you use regularly? Fancy new towels? Do you have Airpods? A Le Creuset dutch oven (over $200 but you may be able to find a good sale this month)? A nice bottle (or bottles) of liquor or wine you enjoy?

   10. I hate the mall. I’m about to turn 40. If my MIL gave me cash and I wanted a physical item, I’d buy home decor of some kind- art,
       Pottery, serving bowl, that sort of thing.

       Usually my MIL sends me a gift card for a mani/pedi which is also my recommendation but not a physical item.

       I’m buying myself a fancy chair. Just decided this morning.

   11. I am not a jewelry or handbag person. Instead, I would love either some new shoes or something for the kitchen. It may sound utilitarian, but I would rather think fondly of MIL with every breakfast smoothie from my new blender, or each time I rock those new loafers instead of polishing a bauble that comes out once a year.

   12. Just something you want. I just used a birthday gift from my MIL to get a pair of clogs I’ve been wanting. Lugsole loafers? New winter boots? Honestly anything – I don’t think just b/c it was a milestone birthday it needs to be a “milestone” gift if that makes sense.

   13. +1 for Pottery or art! I have a huge weakness for pottery. I would want something that I would see or use every day.

   14. Pearl pendant

   15. A gorgeous alpaca throw or cashmere sweater or a Tumi bag or nice pair of earrings or an espresso machine/coffee maker or fancy sheet set or noise-cancelling headphones or rowing machine or good quality winter coat or season tickets to the theatre! Some of these things may cost more than $200, but that extra $200 might make the purchase possible. Enjoy!

9. At a conference and this woman behind me is clackety-clackety loud on her tablet keyboard, typing a transcript of everything the presenter is saying. It was so distracting that I moved. Here is the PSA: research on handwritten notes vs. typing shows that those who type a lecture simultaneously do not retain what they heard.

   1. As someone whose typing style was once described by an officemate as “firing a Kalashnikov”, I bet she’s actually doing email rather than taking notes.

      1. Ditto on loud typing – I blame it on learning to type on an old school typewriter where you had to hit the keys much harder than you do now. I can type more softly if I’m making an effort but if I need to type at speed (to transcribe) it can be loud.

      2. this is my guess, too.

      3. This. Nobody but me actually seems to take notes at conferences. They are doing email or playing on the internet.

      4. Hahaha I’m a loud typer too. I love mechanical keyboards but I’d be a menace in our open office.

   2. She’s probably working. Chill.

   3. Do you know the purpose of her taking notes? Was it for her? Was it perhaps for someone else who wasn’t present who wanted a transcript? Do you know if she was being paid to take notes? Do you know how good or bad her handwriting is? Do you know whether she can write fast enough to capture the level of detail she or someone else needs from her notes? Do you know her personally, and therefore know that she – personally – would retain what she heard better if she took handwritten notes vs. typing? No? You don’t know any of these things? Then sure, give her the stink eye for making so much noise and move to another seat (or better yet, ask her if she can type quieter). But otherwise mind your own business and don’t generalize research on a handful of individuals to every person who has ever taken notes by typing.

   4. The noise would make me crazy. I cannot block out noises like that and cannot focus with them. This is my primary objection to long artificial nails – so much clacking when typing.

   5. A public service announcement? Oy. You were distracted, moved, and solved the issue. Why post a PSA?

      1. I guess the actual PSA is that whatever you do in this world, you’re gonna make somebody mad. *sigh*

         1. Right? Why did OP need to post about this? Life is full of minor annoyances; most of us just figure out how to deal with them in a nondisruptive way, and move on with our lives.

            It seems like for some people here, just going about their daily business and living their lives in the world is akin to someone rubbing their skin with a cheese grater. And I have empathy to a point, but at the same time – learn some basic coping skills.

   6. How do you function in this world?

      1. Just fine. I moved. How about you? I’m guessing most people who think they need a transcript of every lecture don’t function very well.

   7. I wish people would stop with this handwritten notes thing. Yeah I see how it works for a lot of people – that doesn’t mean it works for everyone. I posted yesterday about delegating note taking. All I can say from high school/college/grad school is that if you want even the slightest chance of me having notes, let me type them. Or better, let me pay attention and not take notes.

   8. Countepoint, tying really helps me remember even if I don’t look at it again. I know my learning and working style better than “research”. Everyone is different. Move to another spot if the typing is annoying.

   9. Sometimes the “clickety clack” noises can be tuned off. Sometimes it is a setting.

10. So, I posted a few months ago about supporting my spouse through a big career change and possibly leaving the nonprofit world after 20+ years for something else. Well, it’s happening. He has found a dream position with a company that he has worked with in a corporate partner role. They created the role for him based on his exact skill set. I am so proud of him. And a little nervous about the change, even though it could turn out great (certainly better financially, and hopefully with work/life balance, too).

    I have been a little dismayed to realize that his mom and some of our friends haven’t been unsupportive, exactly, but are not thrilled, either. It’s like they have a vision of him doing this one thing, in this one industry, forever. And, his nonprofit job has come with some perks (access to certain prestige events) that friends and family have benefited from. So, it’s been a little weird, and maybe I should’ve anticipated it. It sort of makes me angry, honestly. He can’t do his job for their benefit, you know? I think I’m especially salty because these same individuals don’t view my career as essential in the same way, even though I, too, manage people and have a lot of responsibility. I just don’t have the prestige.

    I guess all I can do is affirm that he’s doing the right thing for himself and our immediate family of four, and everyone else is just gonna have to get over it. Would love to hear if others have faced mild disappointment from their families when making a big career shift.

    1. I just learned a long time ago not to care what other people think. They don’t have to love my life, I do. If I’m making decisions I feel good about, honestly someone else’s reaction doesn’t even register.

       1. Right. I’m the one who pays my bills and saves for my retirement, no one else is doing that for me. So I’m going to do what I need to do to take care of my own needs, and people can deal with it.

          OP, I feel what you’re saying. My entire family wanted me to go into education because that’s what everyone in my family did – “you’d be such a great teacher!” “It’s so much easier to have a family when you teach instead of having a corporate job!” But I didn’t want to teach and I knew I wouldn’t be good at it. My mom still thinks I made a huge mistake by not teaching, to the point where I stopped talking to her about my problems with work/life balance or childcare stresses because if I did – her pat answer was “well, if you’d just gone into education…”

          A former boss of mine told me once “it’s good to have old friends and close relationships with your family, but sometimes their vision of who you are can keep you locked in the past, when you’ve evolved past that.” She was talking about her own experience, but it really resonated with me. Your DH did something amazing and people should be happy for him. If they’re not – that’s their problem, not his problem. I wish him all the best in his new adventure.

          1. OMG, I would see red. I’m sorry your mom is acting so cluelessly!

    2. Mild disappointment? My family of origin was big on shoving me into a box. “THIS is what you are really like!” But I don’t live my life for other people’s neuroses, and it was about neuroses. They felt comfier with me playing a very specific role, sort of like my 8 year old self had been transplanted into an adult body.

       With your in-laws: they are not the ones who have to deal with the downsides of him staying in his role, so their opinions don’t matter. They can pull a sad face all they want, but they have to get over it.

    3. I never understand why people feel so invested in someone else’s job. If they want to serve the nonprofit world and get the perceived perks then they can go do that. If they say anything I’d tell them, well his position is open now if you’d like to apply!

       1. Ha, I do like that response!

    4. You have to learn to ignore but I know it’s hard in the moment.

       My own family had me pegged as the “career gal” and my sister as the “mother” and boy was everyone pissed off when I did both, especially my sister!

       1. Oh my. The labels that get put on people! I’m grateful my sister points them out as we talk about our kids. It helps us stop that habit.

    5. My MIL is like this about my husband’s job/career. Never mind that she’s never worked in his field, has had no real job experience of any kind for the past 20-odd years, and didn’t go to school in anything even vaguely affiliated with his profession. When he left a job where he was truly miserable, she said, “I had no idea you were unhappy! You were making so much money!” It’s this remarkable lack of self-awareness. which tracks because I really do think she’s a narcissist. Another one of my favorites was when he was saying he wanted to downsize his office and she suggested he buy the office building. Sure, he has an extra $4 million just sitting around. When he finally made a (really good) career shift, he only told his stepfather so he had to break the news to MIL. That helped.

       My job (where I have outearned my spouse on occasion) is just to pay the light bill and to buy fancy clothes.

    6. My mother still thinks it’s adorable that I have a career. She has no idea what my job entails. When I was in private practice, she was under the impression/assumption that all the attorneys at the firm gathered around a conference room table every morning to talk about our cases, “just like on L.A. Law!” (I am dating myself.) I had to break it to her that clients would be upset to see more than two lawyers at a meeting on a bill. You can’t live your life to please others, and, likewise, you can’t tell other people how to live their lives (no matter how much you are sure they would vastly improve their lives if they only listened to your advice).

11. I think I need help with shapewear.
    I had my first baby 3 months ago and I’m returning to work soon. After laboring I needed a c/s and my belly, squishy prior to pregnancy, is now floppy with the “apron.”
    I need to buy trousers but I feel like nothing will look good without some kind of foundation garment. What do people wear? Something like shorts? High/waisted briefs? I have sensitive skin and when I wear spanx-type things for weddings I end up itchy, so kind of dreading a long work day in spandex.

    1. Trousers and jeans are some of the toughest things to buy, in my opinion no matter what size I’m at. Eileen Fisher makes some nice soft pants that can pass off as trousers with the right top and third piece blazer/indoor coat. How’s about dresses to get you through this period? I feel like they can be very pulled together looking with minimal effort.

    2. some pants have a slight compression top built in to them – Spanx, maybe NYDJ too

    3. Ah, the apron. My own OBGYN said “we stop tucking in our tops and hope for the best,” after telling me the only solution was a tummy tuck.

       I haven’t tucked in a top since my last was born and he’s in college now.

       Stretchy pants are going to be your friend now. I don’t love foundation garments like spanx shorts with pants because they leave a line across the thigh, but Spanx does make some footless tights that have compression if you’re into that.

       Creating vertical likes like an open jacket, cardigan, or even a larger shirt will help.

       Nothing but commiseration!

    4. I love Soma’s tummy control underwear! They have light and comfortable control, but prevent me from feeling like my apron is flapping around even when I’m wearing loose-fitting pants. I discovered them after my first (of two) c-sections and it’s all I wear now.

    5. I disagree with the previous posters — I actually find trouser-style pants much more forgiving than a lot of other styles! You can also look for some with elastic in the back for extra comfort. Also, trousers are in style now and so easy to find at a lot of price points. I’ve found great ones at Target, gap, gap factory, and BR factory; abercrombie has a popular pair as well. H&M can have great ones but sizing is erratic so requires guesswork or reading the reviews closely to order. Letter sizes (S,M,L,XL) are generally more forgiving postpartum than numerical sizes. I also recommend following or checking our fromsarahsleeve on instagram; she is midsize and has done a lot of trouser try-ons to find the best pair (I think she likes the Abercrombie ones?). She also has had kids looks super cute while also having a body that resembles mine, which has given me confidence to wear pants that show my midsection, even if I’m not thin.

       You might also check out ponte trousers. I’ve found some loose-ish ones with pleats very comfortable and stylish while also secretly forgiving. I also wear straight leg cotton chinos or twill pants to work a lot (I’m in higher ed, so less formal…)

       I would also encourage you to buy a couple of pairs of new pants, rather than just trying to squeeze into old ones that don’t feel right right now… going back to work is hard enough without adding Pants Drama to your life!

12. There have been a couple posts about individual net worth. Someone said that once they hit $1mm of NW with their partner they were able to make some adjustments, or gave them breathing room or whatever. Question about that – what are you including in that calc? Are you including retirement accounts and non-liquid assets (ie: home equity)? I’m guessing you must be but not sure.

    1. I’m not that poster, but I’m guessing they’re including retirement accounts but not necessarily home equity. If the $1M includes your home, it isn’t really that much money – and I live in a LCOL area. (To be clear, it is definitely impressive to be there in your 20s or 30s and fine even later in life – but it is not “leave the workforce now” money to me, if it includes the primary home.)

       1. i would agree that 1MM net worth that includes your home isn’t worth making adjustments to your lifestyle.

    2. I don’t know about other people, but I would not include the value of my primary home in my net worth for purposes of adjusting lifestyle or investment strategy. I would include: all cash assets (checking, savings, money market accounts, CDs, etc.), retirement assets (401(k)s and equivalents, Roth IRA, pension, etc.), other invested assets (brokerage accounts, individual stocks, bonds, etc.), other real estate (rental properties, second/vacation homes), and other equity (e.g., ownership shares in a business that could theoretically be sold or cashed out relatively easily). I’m sure I’m missing other asset classes, but I don’t have money in them so therefore don’t know about them :)

       1. If you don’t include the equity, are you including the mortgage balance as a negative against your net worth?

          I’m not looking to make any adjustments to my lifestyle, to be very clear. That was just a recent comment from a poster. Financial posts make me often go “hmm. interesting” and then think about my own financial picture. But, I’m not always sure if I’m comparing apples to apples.

    3. i’ve always just gone by what Mint defined net worth as – including estimated home value and car value, mortgage debt and any other debts, etc.

    4. We have a net worth Excel tracker that includes all investment accounts (retirement for each of us delineated separately) and also all cash/CD accounts except for checking. We don’t own a home and don’t include our car or any other physical assets, not that we have many besides a few antiques. We did hit $1M in the last few years and we haven’t changed anything about our lifestyle or tracking.

    5. One has to include it because the value of the house, less the mortgage, is extremely relevant to one’s finances. The house may be sold in the future for any variety of reasons and the equity in the house matters when that day comes. Ignoring the value of the house undervalues one’s assets and ignoring the mortgage overvalues one’s assets.

       On the other hand, I don’t include any personal property in my net worth calculations (including vehicles) because everything that isn’t a car I wouldn’t sell to make money. The cars are depreciating assets, so I don’t count that and I’ll just get out of them whatever I get out of them when I sell them and put that toward a new car.

    6. When I calculate our net worth I include the value of all assets including our primary residence, on the theory that the endgame for many people is “sell the house to pay for residential care.” I don’t however, include the value of my government pension or our Social Security payments (although yesterday I did do a rough estimate of the present value of my pension just for fun, and it was, indeed, fun to see how it increased the bottom line!). And I don’t include personal property because in my experience you’re lucky if you can get rid of it without having to pay somebody to take it.

    7. Net worth has a definition and it includes all investments, including retirement accounts, and the value of your house minus whatever you owe on a mortgage. And as other people have said, this is important because you can sell that house and either move somewhere cheaper or pay for a rental or assisted living. When it comes to deciding whether you could actually retire early, obviously the specifics will matter a lot, as you need to be able to access the money, but I understand the sentiment of feeling like it gives you a bit of breathing room when the money is there but you have no real intention of needing it in the near future and it will just continue to grow.

       1. +1 this is a defined term – “net worth” isn’t just what you feel like including

    8. That might have been me. I have an excel file and yes, I put everything in it. I then have a couple of ways of viewing the data- all in, retirement only, college savings only, cash, non-retirement funds (stocks and cash) etc. because it’s my pet project, I also have graphs and year over year views.

       I use Zillow minus 15% for my home value and a flat assumption for my cars because they aren’t worth much and it’s too much work to check every month :).

       The only thing that’s not really in my sheet is personal property (eg my engagement ring, etc) or any placeholder for family real estate I will inherit but don’t yet own. Because it isn’t mine (yet).

       1. I wouldn’t count personal property unless you have something incredibly unique and valuable – as Senior Attorney said it’s more likely you’ll end up paying someone to remove it.
          I also think it’s sort of odd to count college savings when planning for retirement because the money is earmarked for someone else and will be given away before you retire.

          1. Right. Whenever I calculate our net worth, I don’t include any of our son’s college money. That’s his money, not our money, and I wouldn’t touch it unless things got incredibly dire and we were literally in some kind of “do this or we’re homeless” situation.

    9. I would not relax at $1mm either way! I’m nearing retirement at close to $4mm excluding home equity and wondering if it’s enough. That’s $160,000 pretax income per year and with inflation and living in a VHCOL area I feel like I need to keep working.

       1. I thought the rule of thumb was you could count on 5% returns, so that would be $200k/year in income without even touching the principal?

          With $4M in cash + (I’m guessing based on VHCOL) substantial home equity, you’re among the very, very welathiest people in the US, so I’d relax. I agree $1M is a very different story, with or without a home.

          1. 4%

             and returns have sucked lately so I’m not making 4%!

             1. But you don’t need to live exclusively off the returns, especially if you’re starting with $4M. It’s common and normal to gradually spend down your principal in retirement.

             2. If you have a paid-off house and no kids on the payroll it doesn’t seem hard to live on $160k even in the most expensive cities in the US.

             3. @1:49 I would feel better if both of those things were true. I have a remaining mortgage but it’s at less than 3% interest rate so it’s not really worth it to pay off. The balance is around 20% of my home value. And two in college, with enough saved for tuition room and board, but definitely planning to keep the family home so they have a place to land as they’re getting started in life.

             4. https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/under-100k-low-income-san-francisco-18168899.1

                FYI the poverty line is over $100K where I live.

       2. You have 4 million dollars saved and you don’t think it’s enough???

          1. This board is truly wild sometimes. She’s in the top ~3% of US households.

             1. +1 seriously

                I would love to hear about how people contribute to causes they care about, and in their estates also… some of these are just obscene

          2. I mean at this point I can’t save much more, it is what is is, it just gets really real when you’re talking about no new income and soaring inflation.

             1. In a very different place in life, but I have empathy for the fear of having a finite amount of resources over an undetermined amount of time, even when those resources are significant. Healthcare and care costs are rising like crazy, and the US at least has a sh-t safety net.

    10. The person yesterday said she downshifted when she had $1M in investments, not net worth. I would assume investments includes retirement accounts, but not equity in your primary residence.

        Fwiw, I’m late 30s and combined with my spouse we just cleared $1M in net worth (split about 50-50 between retirement accounts and home equity). I know compared to the average American I’m doing very well, but I feel behind compared to many here.

        1. Don’t feel behind, you’re doing great — net worth isn’t linear, and investment returns and compound interest really do work magic. We had one really lucky break with real estate, but our net worth almost doubled in the 5 years between 2014 and 2019, and has gone up another 1.5x since then.

    11. I wasn’t that poster, but when I think about my “net worth” I consider what I have in bank accounts & investments, including retirement accounts. I don’t count my primary residence, cars, or any physical possessions.

        1. Do you count the debt against any of those latter items – residence specifically (I own my cars outright)? Feels like if you don’t count the value you shouldn’t count the debt against it, right?

           1. When you’re talking liquid net worth you don’t count properties. If you’re including illiquid, then you take house value – mortgage to add that to your net worth.

              But no, don’t put mortgage debt alone into your liquid net worth calculation unless you owe more than your house is worth.

           2. Right, I just call the whole thing a wash and don’t count the equity or the debt for my home. Car debt is not material in my case (we own one outright and the other is less than 10k), and we don’t have any other debt beside our mortgage. Our house would likely sell for nearly twice what we owe on it even if we needed to make a quick sale, so it would be a net positive, but I have no plans to sell my primary residence, so I don’t consider it relevant.

13. We’re trying to keep christmas gifts smaller and more practical this year, and what I truly want are warm, THICK, flannel pajamas. The LLbean ones are the closest I’ve found to what I’m looking for but even they’re a bit thinner than I’d like. Any ideas of where to look?

    1. I got some flannel pajamas from Lands End that are a little thicker than I prefer, but they may be what you are looking for

    2. I think Muji has the nicest flannel.

       1. Oh yeah Muji is great — definitely size up though!

    3. I like my REI flannel ones, and they’re usually on sale at some point

    4. I recently got some flannel pj pants from Garnet Hill and they seem a bit thicker than most.

       1. + 1 to Garnet Hill quality

    5. Soma sells some thick knit pajamas. They are not flannel but very warm.

    6. The Vermont Country Store is a great source for classic flannel pjs.

    7. vermont flannel company!

       1. Without exaggeration, my Vermont Flannel Company pjs are my most prized possession.

          1. Second (or third this) they are amazing!

    8. Hanna Anderson has very thick, flannal pajamas.

14. Hi ladies! Any recommendations for a very sharp, professional suit that can work through early/mid pregnancy? Not necessarily maternity suit but maybe A-line dress or stretch fabric? Appreciate it.

    1. There’s a MMLF suit that has a very swingy shift, I think – it’s their Origami Tech fabric, IIRC. Lands End also makes maternity pants that match the blazers.

15. has anyone hung wallpapers by themselves? what about “removable wallpaper” like from Spoonflower? I was hoping to just hire someone to put up real wallpaper but the handyman who came by the house yesterday said everyone he knew refused to put up wallpaper.

    1. My husband and I did, but he is extremely handy. (For context, he also installed our IKEA kitchen, did the backsplash tilework, replacedthe computer in our car, does electroplating for fun, sewed his own wedding tux, etc). We were using very paper-y wallpaper, from Hygge and West, and it was tough to work with because it expands and also gets soft and easy to tear when wet with the paste. And there was a learning curve to figuring out how much paste to apply and how quickly you had to work before the paste dried out, and how to trim edges without tearing. But I’m still pretty happy with it. I think for a more plastic-y/vinyl paper it would be a lot easier, as would self-adhesive, removable wallpaper. One thing we didn’t think of – if you are using a really dark or light paper, paint the wall a matching color first so seams are harder to see if they aren’t perfect.

    2. I did it and it looked terrible. Won’t do it again.

    3. I put up removable wallpaper myself, and it is . . . fine for the small washer/dryer closet it is in. The closet is visible in the house but typically covered by a curtain and of course the machines make it impossible to really inspect the job I did, which is less than perfect but not bad. Note that if you are going to hang that stuff, you should be prepared for it to be less “removable” than you think and you should definitely paint first with a glossy finish. My walls had a matte paint and I did some damage when repositioning the paper during installation. Taking it down eventually will do a lot of damage. I didn’t know.

    4. My husband and I hung removable wallpaper mural in my daughters room. It looks fine but I would never have agreed if it hadn’t been the spring of 2020. My husband very much needed projects to keep himself happy in lockdown.

       Many painters will do wallpaper.

16. I remember there was a post a few weeks ago about rental properties, what criteria people were using to assess etc. If searched with no luck, but does anyone remember and could post the link?

    I also recall that there’s a way to search the comments for keywords, something like typing “in:comments xyz” into Google – anyone know what I mean?

    1. site:corporette.com searchterm includes comments in the results

17. I overdid it with the red pepper in a pot of chili. Anything I can do now to mute the heat a bit? Help! Help!

    1. Been there lol. I’d add a big dollop of sour cream or any other kind of dairy, or serve a smaller portion of chili over something starchy like rice, macaroni, or cornbread.

    2. Chop a raw white potato into chunks and put it in the chili. The chunks will absorb some of the heat, and you can fish them out and discard them before serving. Make sure to do this before the chunks get too soft and start to fall apart, though.

    3. Add more liquid to thin it out a bit and I agree with serving with some sort of dairy.

    4. Sugar is the antidote to heat. Straight sugar would be fine, but you could also try adding some chocolate.

       1. This. Molasses works, too (and is a nice flavor to add to chili).

    5. Simmer a potato in it for a bit, and the potato will absorb some of the seasoning.

    6. My husband did this a few weeks ago, at least for my sensitive palate. I stirred a few spoonfuls of nonfat Greek yogurt into it. Sour cream would have worked too, but we had yogurt in the refrigerator.

    7. Try adding a tablespoon or two of vinegar or a generous squeeze of lemon or lime juice. A sour flavor can tone down peppery hot spicy flavor.

18. I need fun clothing suggestions. I am dating (both other people and taking myself out on dates), and I am feeling very bored and uninspired by my options (especially tops). I was near an Anthro and South Moon Under this week and nothing jumped out at me so I am turning to the hive for help.

    Vibe I am looking for: classy but sexy (for example on a date in London I wore black jeans, a lacy body suit with a deep V and a black cape blazer and felt amazing). I wear heels voluntarily. I am a slim 43 year old whose body type allows for most looks, but I am NOT into boxy tops. Or fluffy tops. I love sequins and will do sparkly. I do not mind being overdressed. Where should I look to fill this gap? Specific designers? I am willing to invest in sustainable clothing.

    Also, are straight leg ankle or cropped jeans still in style? What about coated?

    1. May I suggest you browse Express? I recently bought a sheer black long sleeve shirt that seems to match the classy/sexy vibe you’re going for.

    2. I think Marcella NYC is a good option for minimalist but interesting details tops

    3. You are bringing Isabel Marant to mind. $$$$$, but sometimes got to be found on yoox for much less.

    4. Sezane might have some options that you like.

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