ByElizabeth Hours Updated
Comments 315 Comments

Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Nara Tie-Front Knit Sweater

A woman wearing a brown long sleeve tie knot sweater and black pants

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This tie-front sweater from Modern Citizen is a perfect choice for a cozy, business casual outfit. The fabric looks comfy, but the tie provides a great shape.

This burgundy color caught my eye for winter, but it also comes in five other colorways, including a gorgeous olive. 

The sweater is $142 and comes in sizes XS-1X. 

Looking for plus sizes? Try this sweater from Catriona — it's $49 at Nordstrom and available in 1X-4X.

Hunting for 100% cotton sweaters? As of 2024 we recommend J.Crew Factory, J.Crew, Quince, Amour Vert, Brooks Brothers, Barbour, and Amazon Essentials. For splurges, check out Molly Moorcamp or State of Cotton, as well as Frank & Eileen's Monterey sweater.

woman wears pretty green V-neck plain cotton sweater with green pants; the cotton sweater is thin enough to fit under a suit jacket
Amazon Essentials
woman wears ivory cableknit sweater with white pants
Amour Vert (exact)
woman wears 100% cotton twinset cardigan and shell; she is wearing navy with black
Brooks Brothers
beige sweater blazer with stripey tee and jeans
J.Crew Factory (exact)

Sales of note for 1/1/25 (HAPPY NEW YEAR!):

315 Comments

  1. Calling skin care gurus – what are your thoughts about using hyaluronic acid as part of body skin care (as opposed to just face). Worth it? I’m thinking of the Necessaire product ( a body serum with hyaluronic acid) that you pair with a lotion. They also have a body product with retinol. Part of me thinks, well I use those things on my face – why not my body? Part of me thinks – genius marketing, but so much more expensive than a tub of eucerin. What do you think? Any IRL experiences positive or negative?

    1. I vote marketing. My most effective skin care regimen on my body is the Salux scrub cloth, the Stridex body wipes for ingrown hairs, and the Vaseline Pro Vita skincare lotion which is cheap as heck.
      This is also coming from someone who got sucked into buying the ‘Hani splash salve’ and lotion set. I HATE it – it’s weirdly annoying packaging (using a screw top with wet hands is awful) and it somehow gave me terrible clogged pores (pimples?) on my thighs where I have NEVER had an issue before. All that to say – ignore the influencers, and go with the drugstore stuff!

    2. I use it because I have bacne and I’m allergic to benzoylperoxide. Otherwise, I wouldn’t bother.

    3. I mean, it’s in my beloved Neutrogena Hydroblast body lotion, which I’ve repurchased many times. I don’t think I’m the type to splurge for fancy body skin care, though.

    4. I use it on my neck, chest, and hands since that skin is so visible and prone to dryness. Not whole-body.

    5. Not a skincare guru, but an AHA product is the only thing that has ever made a difference on my heels.

    6. Do you have any specific issues? For specific areas, like elbows or feet, I like the Amlactin lotions

      1. I just went to the dermatologist yesterday for my annual skin cancer check.

        She asked me how it was going with my keratosis pilaris (red bumps) on the back of my arms and I told her as long as I use the AmLactin every time I get out of the shower, it stays pretty soft, and she was so pleased, like I got an A+ at the dermatology office yesterday.

        She mentioned that as we get older, our skin gets drier. It can lead to chronic problems like dermatitis and eczema because it’s just gotten too dry and thin.

        So she emphasized keeping up with the moisturizing. She was particularly mentioning my feet, which honestly I have not been great about moisturizing lately. So now back to lotion and socks before bed.

        1. Exactly, if you have a particular issue like inflamed/red/scaly skin, then then are specific lotion types that may be able to help. However, I’d focus on face/hands for any aging reduction. Unless you’re a super model, then do what you need to do :)

    8. Hyaluronic acid should basically be in anything moisturizing. It’s not a new, novel ingredient. It’s just something they thought to advertise recently. For that reason, I would not splash out for something super expensive that is basing it exorbitant price on claims of including hyaluronic acid, which is the most basic of basic ingredients.

      I know through this thread some people are confusing hyaluronic acid with exfoliating acids like alpha hydroxy acids (AHAs).

      Although they both have acid in the name, they’re not in the same class of ingredient. They behave differently. Hyaluronic acid is not an exfoliating acid. It’s moisturizing. It draws moisture to the skin.

      1. Maybe not confusing but interpreting the question as generally asking about “such products” for body, rather than just face. I took it to mean a question about ingredients that are marketed for anti-aging and the like for one’s face but are now being extended to whole-body products.

  2. Favorite shops for pretty teacups or china?

    So silly but I’ve realized I prefer drinking tea and coffee from thinner walled ceramic and china cups instead of the regular ceramic coffee mug or pottery mugs. I have one cup of coffee in the morning and maybe tea a few times a week now that Ive cut back on caffine, and want to make that ritual a bit more special with pretty dishware.

    I’m looking for cups or cup and matching saucers I can buy individually in pretty patterns and florals.

    1. Anthropologie has really cute ones. I also like the bee and flower ones from Williams Sonoma but they come in a set of 4.

    2. Go to an antique or thrift store and just get whatever tickles your fancy. There are endless options and typically they’re very inexpensive second hand unless they have some sort of following like Wedgewood

      1. +1

        Also try replacementslimited.com — they have literally every china pattern there is and you can certainly buy individual pieces

    3. No recommendations but it’s not silly!! Good for you creating some daily joy!

    4. I second thrift store for this. Tons of options, and you could put together a pretty fun mixed collection.

      1. Yes to the thrift store. I have dozens of inherited china tea cups that I need to eventually thrift.

    5. The holidays are the wrong timing for this but estate sales are also a great source for these and they are often still there on the final days (usually Saturday or Sunday depending on the exact timing) when everything is marked 50%-75% off

    6. I’ve never actually bought one so can’t speak to quality, but the Tenmokus ads that stalk me on Facebook always tempt me.

    8. Tea drinker here and I totally get you about the difference between a cup and saucer vs a mug. The only issue is that most cup and saucer setups have very small capacity, like 6 ounces, whereas the small size coffee or tea at most places is 12 ounces.

      Take a look at so-called “jumbo” teacups with saucers. Spode makes some.

      1. Here is a link to the Spode. Maybe I’ll put this on my Christmas list actually.

        https://a.co/d/8XvgPqz

        I’d be careful with recommendations about vintage China. I love, love, love vintage China, but until the early 2000s they pretty routinely used lead paint in all of the designs, so unless you’re sure the glaze is 100% intact I probably wouldn’t drink a hot beverage from it, especially if that hot beverage touched any of the painted part of the cup.

        Even Corelle says not to use their pre-2005 dishes.

    9. I share your preference for drinking out of bone china. I find that teacups are not quite big enough for me for every day. I have some Dunoon china mugs which I love. Available widely online in lots of pretty patterns. I like the Henley (0.6 litre) and discontinued Argyle shapes for their large handles but they also have cups and saucers.

      Also, I don’t think this is silly at all. My china cups give me a few moments of joy every day.

      1. On the subject of kitchen dishes. Any ideas where to get Corelle SimplyLite casserole dishes that aren’t over one hundred dollars? Years ago I could purchase them for about $50 but now even looking at Etsy or Replacements sites have them at huge prices.

        1. You either put in the time and find one at a thrift store or spend the money to compensate someone else for doing the thrift hunt for you.

    10. If money were no object I’d get my favorite items from the Wedgwood Wonderlust collection. Otherwise, there are so many fun vintage patterns!

    11. I like Macy’s for this kind of thing (I’ve gotten cute mugs from Portmeiron, Villeroy, Noritake) — I do a lot of thrifting through a local auction site and it isn’t unusual to see entire, full sets of nice china (16 servings!) for under $50. you could always do that and give the rest away, I suppose.

  3. A few years ago (5? 7?) a very similar sweater was featured that if I remember correctly was cashmere. A commenter described it as something the lead character in a Nancy Meyers movie would wear. I didn’t have the budget at the time, but it is definitely one of the items that got away in my life, I’d love a cozy ivory cashmere belted sweater now!

    1. If you google ivory cashmere belted sweater several options come up. See if you like any of them!

  4. We are going to a local restaurant’s New Year’s Eve party. It’s a rather glitzy event.

    I need help finding something to wear. I’m size 20/XXL and 5’3”, early 50s. Budget is about $100. I looked at RtR, but the options in my size were pretty limited.

    1. For a cruise with several formal nights, I brought one black and one ivory “satin” inexpensive skirts with elastic waist from Amazon. I’m short like you and the midi length was ankle length. They had a good selection of dressy tops pretty cheap as well. I also found Chico’s drapey black pants (come in petite) with a satin top worked well. Don’t worry much about the bottom half anyway, pile on the sparkle on top or with jewelry. With party lighting, fake looks fine.

    4. Macy’s (of all places) is my go-to for larger sized formal wear with a tight budget. Especially their “Last Call” section. While it may lean a bit mumsy, it gets the job done especially at an >$100 price point.

  5. This isn’t something I can share with many people IRL, so I wanted to share here.
    I am 29 years old and my family and I were war refugees to the U.S. in the late 90s. My parents came here with 2 suitcases to their name and not knowing English. They became U.S. citizens and have always worked multiple jobs (and still do) to support us and give us a better life. The day I graduated college was momentous for them as they were not able to attend themselves. All that to say, I am incredibly thankful that my husband and I officially paid off our mortgage yesterday! We bought our home last September (with a rate of 7.25%) and have been diligent about throwing extra income at it to be debt free ASAP. We don’t have children currently, however my parent’s sacrifices and commitment will not be forgotten by us (nor future generations, if we have children).

    1. paid off a house in 15 months and you are not even 30? If it’s true that’s huge! Good for you!

      1. Yes. We were able to do this by selling our town house (which we bought low in 2019 and sold high in 2023). The proceeds from that cut the mortgage in half. Also live in a MCOL state so real estate is relatively affordable here.

        2. Congratulations! That is an AMAZING achievement, even if the COL is low, it still requires lots of planning and saving.

    3. Congratulations! When we paid off ours we considered painting our door red as we’d read it was a tradition somewhere. It took us years though. Well done!

    6. Massive congratulations! Your story is amazing. I say this as a parent with older children: please remember to thank your parents for their sacrifices and commitment frequently and with sincerety. For them, seeing your success is their ROI. But hearing that you understand what they did and why and how it benefited you is an incredible feeling for a parent.

  6. The CEO of United Health Care was fatally shot outside the Hilton in midown NYC this morning. Shocking.

    1. By someone with too many denied claims?

      Only sort of kidding. They’re pretty much the worst insurer, and a lot of the hospitals in my city (also the city where they’re based) are dropping from their networks because they’re so bad at paying.

      1. Jesus, you see someone got murdered and your first thought was to crack jokes and talk shit about their job?

        1. How many of you worried about the murder of a CEO have asked Biden to commute the death sentences of federal prisoners?

          1. This is a false equivalence. You can be against celebrating murder AND against the death penalty. Commuting sentences would result in life in prison, not releasing them into society.

            Before you go there, my mother was murdered, and I am against the death penalty.

        1. So are all the people who died in the ICUs while waiting on prior auths because an algorithm discovered that delaying lifesaving care results in higher profits and shorter hospital stays.

          1. are you implying that murder is okay sometimes…? What a wild take for a fashion blog comment section.

          2. People, it is not okay! But when you are responsible for the needless suffering and death of many other people’s loved ones and appear to face zero consequences for it, vigilante revenge is a conceivable (bad!) outcome that can happen.

            I think it’s more likely unrelated, but of course people’s minds went here. Hospital systems all over the country made their negotiations with UHC very public this past year, and the language they used to characterize UHC as unethical was extremely blunt. I couldn’t schedule a check up without encountering very strong condemnatory language surrounding UHC specifically by name.

      3. This is obviously a tragedy, and murder is never justified, but they’ve ceased to work with some major healthcare providers in my area. It’s been kind of a mess.

          1. They’re not though. They’re shilling for this absolutely unnecessarily cruel system that creates mind blowing wealth disparities and makes men like this rich beyond even what us well paid professionals can fathom, at the expense of the very lives of working people. And if you point out that absolutely everyone in this country understands this, that the system inherently breaks and kills people, to the point where everyone can imagine someone’s motive for an inexcusable and horrific and despicable act, then you’re the problem.

        1. So was Weinstein, OJ, etc. It’s the reality when you make a deal with the devil that not everyone is going to grieve for you.

          And the systems that have been put in place while he is at the helm that are denying medically necessary care are doing just that every.single.day. Sorry, but I feel worse for the cancer patients hung out to dry to pad his record profits.

    3. Desperate people do desperate things. It’s awful that this is where we are.

      UHC has had a 500% growth in their share price since Obamacare was passed. It shouldn’t take an executive being gunned down to raise awareness that we are not ok with the current healthcare insurance situation.

      1. Health care reform helped the scales of bargaining power be just a tiny bit less tilted in favor of the insurance companies. You’d rather go back to a world where people with pre-existing conditions can’t get insurance at all?

        1. I believe she is saying that the reforms didn’t go far enough, not that she wants to reverse them

        2. It’s not changed, they just do it through a different pathway.

          I’d prefer to save the $16,200 I spend on healthcare premiums and not pay a fine because none of the care, prescriptions or dental care for my disabled children is covered in network anyway. This past year has cost me $45k for basics. That’s not affordable for the vast majority of households.

          Pricing people out of necessary care is just the same as not covering preexisting conditions.

          1. having an autistic son means we always hit the max on our deductible/OOP and then often deduct at least another $10k in therapists and scrips. $45K is insane though. hugs.

          2. UHC in particular excluded my husband’s medication from its formulary altogether, including its generic. They denied appeals and insisted he go on another med altogether. Their med didn’t work and he ended up in the hospital before they would consider covering the med that has always kept him out of the hospital. I don’t want to count up the hours we spent trying to fight the non-medical switching in the first place because the odds this would happen were just too high to begin with. The status quo where insurers obstruct care and doctors and patients are expected to jump through their hoops with no compensation for their time needs to end. As for excluding necessary medications from formularies, I don’t understand how it’s legal to begin with.

          1. Honestly, I think people are expressing frustration with a truly broken system. Sometimes it’s blunt, but it isn’t terrible for us… you to read.

          2. I agree w 1:34 p.m. We’re grownups and no one died because someone stated a controversial opinion.

          4. So because the insurance industry is a “truly broke system”, the reasonable solution is to celebrate the murder of a CEO? Gross.

      3. I think this is unserious. Probably people in his position will be just paid more now to compensate for the risks of being the public face of a predatory industry.

    5. Obviously horrible and unacceptable. Is there any chance we’ll have a real conversation about the disparity between executive pay and corporate profits the cruelty of our for profit system on the rest of us? Would I be wrong to assume this man made eye watering sums of money heading a company that made life harder and harder working people?

          2. Yes personally, just like war lords are responsible for the deaths they cause even though they use soldiers.

          3. The f? No. This is absolutely not the same as a war lord. Health insurance is not akin to bombing a city. It’s just not.

        2. Please reread my first sentence. I’m literally the only person who decried this and yet I’m the only one accused of saying he should be murdered. Someone above me literally wrote eat the rich and you attacked the person who said this is horrible and unacceptable. You’re the gross one and you’re acting in bad faith. Go away.

          1. But you went on to ask if this horrific murder will change the conversation? I hope not. I don’t want to encourage assassination.

    6. It looks like an assasination by a masked shooter who was seen waiting for him.

      1. Yea, I think this was a planned attack. It’s terrible but not that surprising at the same time.

    7. As someone who has had a family member murdered, many of the comments so far here are absolutely disgusting and inhumane. Good lord.

      1. Truly shocking. Politics has really ruined so many people, liberal and conservative.

          1. This is a batshit insane question. Truly insane.

            But yes, as someone who has walked the road of having a family member murdered, my first thought would be of his children, and I sure as shit wouldn’t be cracking jokes and shooting off hot takes as my first reaction. That’s universally true for all humans.

            What does it say about your soul that that’s not true for you?

        2. I think I’m just done with this place between this and the unhinged question below about becoming a better liar getting supportive answers. I’ve been around and have really loved this place for the past 10-15 years, but I do not share, and absolutely do not want to start sharing, the cynical and inhumane world view that seems so popular here. I don’t think it’s politics so much as it is the internet, but whatever it is, it’s disturbing and not a healthy environment for me anymore.

          1. +1000. I’ve also been a reader since 2010 I think. And the comments today are unhinged and awful.

        3. Are you actually shocked? Have you been on the internet lately? I can understand being annoyed, tired, and many, many things. I cannot imagine being shocked by any of these comments.

          1. I think of this community differently than the ubiquitous “internet” – I did not expect this reaction here.

          2. I had a higher opinion of the women who post here than I did of the general “internet.” This reads like a Reddit comment section.

      2. Just because he worked for United Health Care should not give anyone a reason for killing him! Grow the F*** up!!!!! They are no worse than any other health care company, and I think they are fair.

        1. They are worse, and they are not fair. They deny and delay care more often than other health care companies. They waste more physician time than other health care companies. No one even adds up how much of the time of seriously ill patients they waste. Their denials and delays have led to life threatening complications and hospitalizations for multiple people I know. You sound blissfully ignorant.

          3. I think the French Revolution was mostly a disaster whose effects we’re still suffering through.

        1. The comments are exactly what we would expect in a country with wealth disparity that had led to violent revolutions in other countries. It is really sad but this is where we are. The wheels are off the bus.

          1. No, this is absolutely not “where we are” in the eyes of anyone but the terminally online.

      4. I don’t personally know anyone who has been murdered, but I am shocked by some of these comments too. Truly outrageous.

      5. +1

        And for the person asking about Putin, I thought it was very gross how people in the US celebrated in the streets when Bin Laden was killed (though I obviously didn’t mourn him), so yes. I think it’s always gross when murder is celebrated, even if it is “justified” in certain ethical senses.

    8. I’m shocked but also.. maybe it’s more shocking something like this hasn’t happened before given our healthcare system & gun problem in this country.

      It’s horrible but also yes, this man was responsible for many deaths through decisions UHC has made. I’ll spend my emotional energy on them.

      1. Exactly

        At a certain point your business actions – which harm literally millions of people – have consequences. You don’t get to hide behind a company when you engage in gross immoral behavior in service of gross capitalism.

        2. I agree but I do think executives should face criminal prosecution rather be gunned down on the street.

          1. When judges are so easily bought it’s hard to have faith in the legal system.

    9. “I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy.”

    10. It’s almost like we shouldn’t let every disgruntled idiot in America own a gun or something!

      1. But that would eliminate the number one cause of pediatric deaths.

        Limiting access to abortion is the solution to declining birth rates. Not gun laws.

        Obviously!

  7. My 20-year-old kid recently came out as non-binary. I would love to support them in finding clothes that reflect who they are, the problem is they are 5’1″ and a woman’s size small. Anyone have recommendations for a site or store that may be promising? Hoping to buy a gift card for the holiday. Thanks!

    1. For male clothing try the Marc Anthony line at Kohls,
      For female clothing try any brand in athletic cuts

    2. My first thought was Uniqlo – they have some slimmer sizing and are a little less gendered than a lot of stores, if that is helpful for your kid.

      1. Yeah, I feel like Uniqlo and Muji might be really good shouts here for more gender neutral clothing.

    3. Primary if they are into loud colors? It’s not everyone’s cup of tea but I like it.

    5. For simple things like hoodies, Old Navy has gender-neutral clothing. For sites, try Kirrin or Peau de Loup.

    8. This is probably first and for most a style question- what kinds of clothes do they want to be wearing? I know several nonbinary people but they run the gamut style-wise.

      1. My neighbor’s kid/our frequent Pet Sitter went this route during her/their last year of high school and through her/ their first year of college.

        In my recollection of the timeframe, the first thing was a masculine haircut like you would get from a barber.

        And then athletic clothing. I know this is going to vary with the individual, but in this case she/they is an athletic person to begin with, playing team sports in both high school and college, so wearing the hoodie, the longer shorts, the workout pants, the sneakers, all that stuff is pretty unisex.

        Just to be perfectly clear because I know people get confused about this stuff. and I find it somewhat confusing ag first, in this case she/they chose she/they as her/their pronouns and is not transitioning to being male. It’s just sort of an in between/ none of the above option. As I understand it.

    9. Nordstrom has a “unisex” option under the gender filter that seems to have a lot of options.

    10. It’s not a fancy store, but JC Penney actually has a lot of options in the men’s department for smaller and shorter people.

  8. I’m in NYC for the first time in a year or so, and have a few fashion observations:
    1) Big wool coats are everywhere. For a long time it felt like everyone was wearing parkas or down jackets. There are still a lot of those, but I now am seeing a lot of very long wool wrap coats.
    2) No one wears high heeled shoes, but lots of people are wearing heeled boots.
    3) Lots of knitwear – including both drapey and chunky styles.

      1. Yeah this is what I was thinking. We’re still in wool coat season but its turning into puffer season. Except for fancy events.

      3. Are people wearing puffer vests under their wool coats? It’s a trend in some places.

          1. Oh no, you forgot there were actually seasons. There’s fleece vest season and then there’s puffer vest season. I can’t remember which one is legal for hunting but anyway.

      4. That’s what I was thinking. Wool coats are lovely for nippy autumn weather, but once it gets truly cold, you’re gonna see the Canada goose and all that business again.

      5. +1, I wear my pretty wool coats for highs in the 40s or high 30s. Puffer Season is yet to come.

      1. It’s utilitarian. It has not run its course, they will be around forever. They were around before they were trendy as well.

        1. This. My Soia & Kyo puffer only comes out when it’s below 20 F, it’s simply too warm otherwise but that thing is a lifesaver in Boston Polar Vortex weather.

        3. Yup. I don’t wear my puffer because it’s cute, I wear it because it’s warm and today it’s in the 20s

      2. I get absolutely sick of mine halfway through Chicago winters, but they’re a necessity. Wool coats aren’t warm enough, and it’s getting harder to find high-quality wool coats.

        1. I hear fur coats are super warm, due to the leather as well as the fur. The leather stops the wind. But I don’t know, as I have never owned one.

          1. I’m an old whose mother had a fur coat and can confirm, they are very warm.

            So much so that when she hit menopause and started to run hot, she put the coat away and didn’t wear it again.

          3. You can buy fur second hand to mitigate some of the ethical issues. Furs are plentiful at estate sales.

          4. I have fewer ethical issues with shearling (which is also absurdly warm).

            I was just reading about winter hypertension to help justify the expenditure!

          5. I am also an old and Canadian. Fur is super warm. Like so much so, that it is too hot for me unless we are below zero Fahrenheit.

      4. Trend? Puffers are not a trend in cold weather, they make a huge difference in ability to stay warm. Especially in a place like NYC where you are not going from garage to parking lot (or garage). I could not stand winter here without a puffer.

      6. Puffers are not a trend, they are essential in cold climates. We northerners have been wearing them since forever. I had a “puffer” in college, not called that back then, but that was 40 years ago.

      7. Meh, my puffer coat is only 3-4 years old and I can’t justify replacing it, especially because in my state I don’t need it that often. So trend or no, the coat is going to stay around for a while. I’m really over the expectation that we replace long-term items well before we need to.

    4. This is such a fun post. I am a New Yorker and I agree on all these trends. My bigger question is: are you not seeing these trends at home? I feel like fashion is so standardized now, are trends really different elsewhere?

      1. I mean, I’m in Texas. It’s 40ish in the mornings. The kids were walking to the high school in shorts yesterday because it was in the 60s by the afternoon and they don’t believe in coats

        1. I’m in the Bay Area and wear a variety of puffers. Most are of the less bulky/ Uniqlo adjacent variety. But they serve a purpose here, because that wet air gets really chilly even if it’s not literally freezing.

          I have a coat I call my New York coat, because I do business travel there, that is a different level of puffer coat. It’s very heavy and got me through a day of trudging through sideways snow and gusty winds on a 16 degree day that everyone was calling the “Storm of the Century” (which actually seems to happen at least annually).

          I think it was also called a Polar Vortex. We just had an Atmospheric River here in the bay, and that was related to a Bomb Cyclone in the Pacific Northwest. I think the weather people are just glomming onto scary sounding weather names now.

          Anyway, puffer coats for the win.

      2. This is probably not a helpful answer, but it just doesn’t get cold enough in Texas (a lot of the South?) to need a full on puffer. I can do wool all winter for workwear.

        But more generally, NYC is a giant sample size in a small area of fashionable people. In my metro city, yes, I can see these trends among our more fashionable, but they are just more spread out so I’m not sure I would notice them as a trend.

      3. OP here. I live in the Bay Area and work in San Francisco, and the styles are really different. It’s fun to be in NY and just observe some of the differences. SF is still wearing sneakers with everything, all the time; even boots tend to be flat and not heeled. And I occasionally see a giant drapey wool duster sort of coat in SF, but it’s usually worn open, kind of as an accent piece – not really a coat. I don’t see a lot of intense knitwear. And to be clear, I render no judgment – just observations. I wear a Columbia puffer these days!

    5. I always wore wool coats all winter when I lived in NYC, but then I took cars and cabs almost everywhere because I was in BigLaw.

      1. Yeah, therein lies the difference. If you are walking a lot in NYC, a puffer is essential IMO. But then again, maybe I run colder than other people.

  9. Anyone have resources on learning to become a better manipulator and start lying?

    I want to be that person who can take advantage of others for personal gain, pretend an employee promotion is ‘coming’, present a deck I made my underlings write all of, etc. But right now I’m an honest chump and that’s not good in corporate land. (I’ve even fallen for those same lies myself, I’m so dumb).

    1. You sound too hurt to get to the heartless manipulative state right now. I’m sorry. You might just be a good person. I suffer from a similar affliction.

    2. Don’t.

      Sure you might “get ahead”, but at what cost?

      In this crazy world we live in why wouldn’t you want to be an example of the good?

      1. I think there are parts of this book that are good. Some of the tips are pretty basic. But I guess anyone could overdo it.

    4. I’m guessing something really bad happened at work, and you’re hurt and angry?

      1. Nope nothing bad happened (at least not to me). My office had their year end awards ceremony and I realized none of the award recipients actually did the work. Made it clear I need to change my approach.

        1. I think it means you need to find a new company. There are good ones out there where hard work is rewarded.

          1. I’ve literally never seen a CEO of any company give credit to their underlings, that last slide always only has one name on it.

          2. The CEO of my well-run nonprofit definitely gives people credit. She is just completely normal about mentioning who all was involved and who did what.

          3. We don’t put “underlings” (your word and absolutely not mine) on external presentations because we don’t want clients or prospects calling the 24 year old, which is the same reason we don’t name them in press releases. Lessons learned made us institute this rule, fwiw.

          4. OP, are you quite young? This is how the world works. The CEO’s name goes on the CEO’s presentation . . .

        2. Lying and manipulating is not the way to go in opinion. Self-advocacy and self-promotion is, however. Quietly doing your work and waiting for recognition doesn’t work. Ask for a raise and switch jobs if you don’t get it. Make sure your boss and your grandboss know what you are doing.

          I’m a lawyer at a firm so my path is different. But if I win a case, people know. When I land a new client, people know it.

      1. LOL this is exactly what I’m looking for. How to become as selfish and self involved as they are.

        1. I really hope at some point you’re able to step back and see how immature and ultimately self-defeating this attitude is.

    6. I think its just a personality difference. I don’t think I could ever fully be like that.

    7. Therapy to address your distorted and unhealthy view of how the world works, and actual offline friends to share life with who will tell you that this worldview is distorted and unhealthy.

        1. No. It absolutely fucking isn’t.

          If her company is unhealthy, her recourse is to leave. Saying “I don’t think these folks are moral actors so let me see how I can become more immoral so I fit in” is seriously disordered thinking.

          1. I thought it was sarcasm, but you sound a little naive if you think it’s so easy to find a place that values its most valuable staff over its manipulative careerists. Look at how professors or physicians are treated (let alone adjuncts, nurses, etc.) vs. all the many people who make objectively terrible administrative decisions at universities or hospitals and then give themselves prizes for it.

          2. I’m saying I think it’s immature to model your morality off of those you think are immoral.

        2. It’s how corporate America works, the link between sociopathy and corporate executives is well studied. I guess we’re just pretending it’s not because that’s an ugly thing to accept.

    8. You’re thinking about it wrong and that’s the first step. Presenting something your direct reports prepared for you isn’t a lie. No one is asking you “did you personally write every bullet point.”

    10. You need to be the person who can see the justification behind what you see as manipulation and lying. When I was a lawyer I edited 50% of a huge treatise that was largely written by interns; my coeditor did the other 50%. It was the name partner who was on the treatise because that’s how it works, he’s the one with the accolades including this one, he’s why people “trust” the treatise. Our names wouldn’t have sold it. After 15 years of only being listed in a footnote, my coeditor asked for a shared byline and got it; I was proud of her. (I’d only been doing it for 5 years when I was laid off, hilariously in retrospect, because I was spending too much time on this treatise and not billing enough elsewhere.)

      The person who strings people along with promotions may genuinely want to give you a promotion and think it’s coming, but then circumstances change. It doesn’t mean your boss was manipulative, and it tells you what you need to know — that you should change jobs if you want to advance.

      Agree with the others on presenting a deck (or memo or brief or whatever) that was 99% written by the underlings — the presenter is still putting his name on the line as he’s the one presenting it, he’s giving credence and weight to what is said with his title.

      None of this means you have to be a doormat – but don’t expect the corporate world to be free of justifications like this or changed circumstances larger than you.

      1. I used to work in an organization where junior staff were encouraged to present their own work and were even given first authorship. I now am in an org where the director is the only one who presents or is credited and it is a culture shock, but that’s how it’s done most places. The former model is designed to develop staff and build organizational capacity. The latter is designed to consolidate and entrench power. Ironically, I have my current job precisely because my former employer allowed me to present, to attend conferences and meetings, and to publish under my own name.

        1. A director at my org is listed as first author on a scientific paper which used lab equipment he’s not even qualified to use.

    11. I don’t think you have to embrace lying. Maybe detachment is an option more your speed. Tell the truth, don’t sugar coat it, but also don’t internalize it.

  10. I’m moving into a 2 bedroom so can have the extra room be my office / guest room / gym. Looking to figure out the best bet for a guest bed; I don’t want a bed in there full time (it’d fit but I think it’d be crowded).

    For those of you with something similar, what’s your preference for Murphy bed or cabinet Murphy, day bed, or futon?

    My couch (in the living room) is a pull out but I’d prefer to give guests a private room when I can. I also have more than 1 guest often enough that I’d want both options.

    1. Do you tend to have couples stay or just one person? We have a day bed with a bed that pops up underneath. There’s a big gap, so it’s not amazing for snuggling, but doable. But in retrospect, I wish we had just bought the IKEA Hemnes, with a good mattress. Sometimes I like to take a break from my desk and sit on the bed and read.

      1. It’s probably 50/50 mix – really depends if the friend visiting is coupled or single and at age 30 it’s pretty much split down the middle.

        No family visiting as they all live nearby and wouldn’t need to stay over (and if for some weird reason they did, I’d give them my bed).

        I also will host a few single friends from the same group who are happy to share a bed with me or each other.

        Wanting the privacy for guests is really more that I wake up early on weekends (against my will) and would not want to have to wait to make coffee in the kitchen.

    2. I had a futon. The plus side is that it was a couch when it wasn’t a bed so it was useful even when it was just me. The downside was that it was both heavy and floppy, and hard for me to switch from the couch to bed position and back again by myself. I didn’t have overnight guests that often though. If you have overnight guests a lot, I would probably go for a daybed.

    3. My second bedroom/office is tiny and I have a pull-out couch in there, the bed it makes isn’t quite a double but is comfortable with a very thick mattress topper. I don’t have guests that often and if it really became necessary I would give up my bed to a couple and sleep in the spare room myself. Mostly I wanted to focus on the option that would be best for my use of the room as an office rather than its use as a guestroom; I sit on the couch sometimes and do non-computer tasks, so I have another possibility than the desk but can keep work to the one room – but the layout does mean I have to rearrange furniture to pull out the bed. If you have guests a lot, that room would be your preferred spot for them, and you’ll have gym equipment in there as well I would probably prioritise the option that’s least of a pain to put into bedroom mode.

    4. My parents have a Murphy bed flanked by bookshelves that is all one unit and they adore it! It’s great because the “bottom” of the bed looks like a normal cabinet (it’s a faux door) but it’s not actually IN a cabinet so they can easily pull it down. This means that it also looks like a normal bookcase for Zoom calls when they use the guest room as an office. The caveat here is that they had a contractor put it together and anchor it to a wall for safety purposes. It’s something like this: https://bredabeds.com/urban-murphy-bed-with-1-hutch

    5. My grandparents had a Murphy bed in their office that I often slept on. The best part was that it was a real (or close to real) queen mattress, so you could really get a good night’s sleep.

      I don’t know the difference between a Murphy bed and a cabinet Murphy. This was a giant cabinet mounted on the wall with legs that popped out when lowered. The queen bed was length-ways in there instead of having your head at the wall because that’s what space was available in the room.

    6. I have a futon. I splashed out and bought the best one I could buy, but it’s still a futon. 90% of the time we use it as a couch, and people tell me it’s a reasonably comfortable bed, but I don’t sleep in it myself. If people want to crash here, that’s what’s available and it’s fine. I’m not trying to have the perfect guestroom from southern living magazine or anything. Usually it’s my son‘s friends who are college seniors and they will sleep anywhere.

    7. I have the Deco convertible sofa from Room and Board and it’s very comfortable (I’ve slept on it many times)and has a smaller footprint than other couches. Be sure to get the memory foam topper that comes with it.

    8. I recently got the Shift sleeper sofa from Burrow for my home office, and I’m really happy with it. I needed something modular, because my office is off a narrow hallway that a regular sofa won’t fit through. It’s an attractive sofa, and it folds out into a regular queen-size bed.

      My niece slept on it last week while family was visiting, and she liked it. And I’m sleeping on it this week because my husband and I both have covid. I’m only mildly ill, but he’s pretty sick, and it’s easier to sleep apart. It’s really a comfortable bed. I wouldn’t put a 70-year old on it, because it’s low to the ground, but for your purpose, it could be perfect.

    9. I have a bed with a portion that can be raised (like a hospital bed but not one). So when I work in that room it is very comfortable to read on the bed with the portion raised, like a couch. When my office becomes a guest room it reverts to being a bed.

  11. Looking for ideas on a last minute road trip from NYC, with two elementary age kids, over the December school break. Ideally somewhere south so it’s not any colder. Have already been to Philly!

    1. We drove down to North Carolina outer banks during COVID – also went to the Wright Brothers museum. I thought that was a really cool trip.

    2. Lancaster and Hershey PA? Stay at Hershey Lodge, go to the amusement park, explore Amish country. Your kids sound like the right age for the attractions.

        1. We have been and it is fun! Low lines, Hershey is decked out in lights and it’s really special. I wouldn’t go in snow or rain or 20 degrees but in 40 and sunny it’s great!

    3. If you really want to make the kids happy – Great Wolf Lodge or the other indoor water park brand that’s in the Poconos are HUGE hits with that age group.
      Otherwise I think this is a great age to do DC and the weather isn’t really cold yet, especially coming from NYC.

      1. +1 to all of this. You could add in a day or two in Williamsburg if you end up going to DC.

        1. Williamsburg is a 3-4 hour drive south from DC, on one of the most congested stretches of highway in the entire country. Pay careful attention to what days/times you plan to travel, and make sure you’ll get enough out of Williamsburg to make the extra travel worth it.

          I’ll also put in my usual plug for Mount Vernon (George Washington’s house), followed by lunch and afternoon wandering in charming Old Town Alexandria, all as a day trip out of DC. Both will be extra Christmassy at that time of year.

          1. This is very good advice. I-95 south of DC is a special kind of road. Maps will tell you it’s about 2 hours between DC and Richmond…. Maybe if the Rapture actually happens.

            And Alexandria is very pretty this time of year.

    5. People like going to the aquarium in Baltimore, although I don’t really understand what else there is to do in the inner harbor.

      1. Isn’t the Maryland Science Center still there? Also I believe the American Visionary Art Museum is nearby. Growing up my father would also drag us to Fort McHenry, but I cannot, in good conscience, recommend that as anything other than “character-building.”

  12. I have a couple of money advice questions for you all this morning. I’m a law student graduating in the spring (yay!) and thinking about how to arrange/plan money things and a bar trip before I start working. How did you handle finances without taking out bar loans? How did you stick to a budget? For context, I am planning to have $10-$13k saved and set aside to cover only living expenses for June, July, August, and September. This would not include things like bar fees, my course, etc. I will be starting work in mid-late September. My living expenses are relatively modest for the city I live in (about $2k/month total) and I don’t need to move after the bar (double yay!). I’ve accepted a job offer at an AmLaw 100, so I will have a bit more financial breathing space and ability to save once I start working. I also had a scholarship for law school, so my student loans will be relatively manageable even if I pay them off aggressively.

    The second question is, what are your thoughts on opening a new credit card for points? I’m thinking if I put a bar trip and bar expenses on one I might have a chance of meeting intro offers for some travel cards, or even an airline card (I already have a Chase Sapphire Preferred, so I’m looking for other options like the Capital One Venture, for example) while still being able to pay it off immediately. Other option—I get a 0% APR card to give me some breathing room before I start working and save the cash without a major hit to my credit score/interest payments. Or I do neither and just pay things off in cash. For context, I am not necessarily debt-averse but I am also not a person comfortable with high levels of financial risk. What would you do?

    1. I feel very jumbled after reading all this; not sure whether I’m not paying good-enough attention or not. But it sounds like your questions are lumping together all kinds of different scenarios, covering both next summer and also after you start your job. So. First.

      1. Save enough money to cover your living expenses for the time you have no income coming in. Make sure that “living expenses” includes ALL your expenses — food, shelter, utilities, entertainment, clothing, eating out, transportation, insurance, medical needs, and whatever else you spend money on. Does all of that come out to more than $2k a month, or is it actually $2k? If it comes out to more than $2k, decide whether you will cut your lifestyle to the bone or go into debt to fund it. If needed, cut your lifestyle now in order to save more for next year.

      2. Then look at all the expenses you’re going to incur that you don’t have money for. Right now, it sounds like bar exam, bar trip, and (maybe?) student loans. Put literal numbers to all that. How much will all that cost, and how much debt will you need to go into to cover it?

      3. Then decide where and how you will borrow money to cover those costs. Find the cheapest way to do it (e.g., the lowest interest rate).

      4. Put off any expenses you can until after you start working. Meaning, don’t increase your lifestyle expenses in any way until after you have actual income coming in.

    2. When I graduated, my law firm paid me while I studied for the bar exam. I thought that was pretty standard, especially for big firms.

      If not, you have presumably been sticking to a budget in order to save up for the summer. Continue sticking to said budget.

      Enjoy your bar trip, and good luck with the exam!

      1. I thought my firm paid me too — you might also be able to ask for a loan, like getting a $1000 from your first 4 paychecks ahead of time. They also paid for my bar study, I think? I’d definitely do a card like Chase Sapphire Reserved ($95 a year) for points if you’re traveling a lot, maybe other cards.

        Timing is everything — how long you have to carry the charges for on your credit card, because the longer you carry them the more interest you’ll be charged — I feel like that’s how some friends did it.

    3. I mean, I didn’t take a bar trip. I had $$ saved for living expenses while I studied. Then I stayed at my in-laws’ and my parents’ and then we looked for an apartment.

    4. Is your employer paying for your bar fees and bar review? Are they giving you a stipend? Assuming yes then it seems like you’re in a great position to take a bar trip! I’d spend no more than 30% of the amount you expect to have in savings at the end of the summer.

      And yes I’d get a travel credit card before booking anything. You’ll need a cc with a high limit to cover work related travel expenses until you get reimbursed. The firm generally won’t book your travel or give you access to a firm card. When I was a junior associate (15 years ago) I sometimes had to carry as much as $10k in travel expenses before getting reimbursed. I’m sure that figure is higher now. One of my fellow first years didn’t have a credit card because he was raised to not believe in debt or some ridiculousness, he had to call his parents in the middle of the night to wire him money to pay for an unexpected extra week in a hotel. Don’t be that guy.

    5. For AmLaw 100 I would expect a bar stipend to be paid in spring. Maybe look at Above the Law or similar to see what the updated numbers are. It was in the high 4 figures in my day in the late 2000s.

      As for spending money during this weird hiatus, I stayed student-frugal otherwise but did put a $5K bar trip on a 0% interest credit card. The one and only time I’ve ever had a balance. Paid it off out of my first paycheck. And promptly didn’t take any time off for the next 1.5 years so… worth it.

    6. I graduated in 2010, so our options were don’t take bar trip because half of us were unemployed, or in the case of one friend, take loan from firm that you never have to repay because your firm collapses and getting paid back from the incoming class was the least of their problems…. 2010 was fun, y’all. Not that I’m bitter. But seriously, most firms will do bar stipends or loans–take it and take the bar trip. Vacation time will be limited once you start.

      As for credit cards, I mostly just use a 2% cash back as I find them easier than having to deal with travel points, though I did open a Delta card when they had a really high mileage bonus, and if you’re going to be traveling for work, it’s probably worth it to get a card for your airline of choice. Just pay it off every month.

  13. Federal employee ‘rettes – Anyone have a recommendation for health insurance with open season upon us? My current insurance premium has skyrocketed, and I’m shopping around but thought I’d ask here to see if anyone was particularly happy with theirs. Going through the options is mind-numbing. Looking for plan for me and my family. May add on dental but those rates seem really high this year.

    1. I just switched from FEP Basic (IBX) to the foreign service benefit plan. I’m not at State but several agencies (mine included, obviously) are eligible.

      Haven’t tried it yet, but it looks promising.

      There’s a lot of good conversations on Reddit (fednews subreddit) about bennies too.

      1. Oh, I wish my agency was eligible for the Foreign Service benefit plan! I had it while I was posted overseas to an Embassy, but once I returned to my home office stateside, my eligibility terminated. You have to join a Foreign Service Association, whose main benefit is this insurance plan. They will reimburse any receipt, even on the back of an envelope, and they reimburse for a certain number of massages per year, too. These are the benefits of a member-owned insurance company.

    2. My husband is a fed, and we switched for 2025 due to FEP Blue Basic no longer covering my weight loss med at the same level ($60 per month to $600+). We moved to MHBP Standard because it had that coverage. Premium went down, but we picked up a deductible. We also lost some copays ($200 outpatient surgery went to 10% coinsurance). I’ll second the reddit page as a very good resource.

    3. We’re on GEHA and have been happy with it, with the caveat that we get dental through my company.

    4. Can you hire someone? My husband and I did this when we were looking for a plan with our LLC. The same woman also helped advise when on Medicare Advantage plans when my husband went on Medicare. She needed a list of our doctors and prescriptions and then gave us the best options for what we were and weren’t willing to take on for copay and coinsurance, etc.

      1. Is Medicare Advantage ever the right option then? I’m always hearing that it’s basically a scam.

        1. Some are awful—many denying much higher than commercial insurers. But some are much better than others.

    5. I’m with GEHA, which networks through United Health Care. Never had any particular issues with finding care. I’m shifting over to the HDHP from basic to take advantage of the HSA.

  14. Do I have to give my employer the SSN for the beneficiary of my employer-sponsored life insurance policy? I filled out a bunch of forms with the insurance company, so they have my beneficiary’s SSN, DOB, address, left arm, etc. My employer didn’t initially require a SSN at all, but when I changed the beneficiary from my mom to my husband a few years ago (when we got married), it required me to put something in the SSN box. DH isn’t that comfortable with my employer having this information so I contacted HR and they told me to enter a placeholder number. Now I’m being told they need the actual number “to make sure their records match the insurance company’s records.” Is this an actual requirement or can I ignore it? If it matters, DH doesn’t receive any benefits from my employer.

    2. this seems like a totally standard requirement to me. tbh I just assume my SSN is in the wrong hands at this point…

      1. Yeah I get that. I guess I should’ve phrased my question as, how much should I nag, cajole, and plead with my husband who is resisting giving my employer his SSN? Because my inclination is… 0 nagging. I asked. He said he’s not comfortable. Like. Ok. You’re the one who maybe won’t be getting money if I die while employed here so… it’s kind of not my problem? I’m paying my $1 per month to do right by you, if you don’t want to take full advantage then that’s your choice right? Or is that not being a good wife, whatever that means?

        1. How much money are we talking about? Tell him the amount and ask him if he wants it or not and after that it’s on him. (If I had kids and it was a significant amount, I might just tell him “Dude, this is for our family and I’m doing it and you need to suck it up.”)

          1. We don’t have kids yet. I don’t think he would be stubborn like this about things that impact kids, but tbh I probably wouldn’t ask I’d just do it. I don’t feel comfortable disclosing his personal information without his consent for something that is just for him. Dollar amount is about one year’s salary, so a significant help but not pay off the house (that we just bought) kind of money.

          3. It would never dawn on me to even tell my spouse I am putting his number down for this type of purpose. I would just do it.

        4. As a rule, I never nag or cajole. If he won’t do it after being explained the situation and consequences, then it’s on him.

        5. I mean, do you have kids? Because it would also be their problem if you die . . . Just enter it and don’t tell him.

    3. My spouse and children are on my company’s insurance plan and they needed my marriage certificate, joint tax returns, and the kid’s birth certificates before they would insure them! A SSN is nothing.

    4. I mean….. pretty much all of our SSN have been stolen and are on the Dark Web these days, so this level of discretion seems odd.

      Yes it is standard to request this.

    6. I didn’t have to enter my husband’s SSN to make him my beneficiary on employer-offered life insurance, I don’t think it was an option even. however, that’s 1 insurance company. Lots do, and very normal. Is your DH normally paranoid about this kind of thing? I would ask him who he wants to be the beneficiary instead if he won’t provide it.

      1. I’m actually careful with my SSN and all kinds of numbers. I’ve had some pretty deep identity theft, including someone filing income taxes under my number/their address and getting a refund, and another person going to jail for several years for printing a drivers license with my information but their picture and then taking cash out of my bank account.

        So yeah, when my optometrist office wants me to put my SSN on their standard intake forms, I’m a no. But if that’s the only way to get a life insurance benefit, then I’m giving the number.

    8. Do you have a trust? I am divorced and I set up a trust for all my assets that is in my name and includes my children plus my family members who will control the trust until children are 30.

      The true benefit of this is that all beneficiary information is always the trust. It has its own tax ID.

  15. I just read your post from yesterday – I’m really sorry. Long distance relationships can be tricky, but it’s probably a blessing in disguise that you found out now instead of years down the road.

    One piece of advice from a healthcare professional: Please get tested for STDs (I assume physical intimacy was part of your relationship). I know, it sucks, but keep yourself safe.

  16. Michele Singletary has an amazing series in the Washington Post about this woman who was scammed out of her life savings: https://wapo.st/3CZDdR6 I think this is a gift link.

    Anyway, if you have elderly relatives it can’t hurt to remind them you can’t be too careful. I read this and think “I would never fall for this,” but… this poor woman did and lost everything. Scammers are awful.

    1. I’m the poster whose mom is actively being scammed on FB and who doesn’t think it’s a scam. The only thing that makes it somewhat tolerable is that mom doesn’t have any assets, just her monthly checks that cover her needs. At least it’s not loads of money…

      SA, it is a gift article, but you have to create an account before you can read it. And 12ft didn’t want to work its magic on it.

  17. Our sales director told me that his wife is 3 months pregnant. He said he was going to tell the rest of the company, idk if he has done so yet. We are not friends, he didn’t tell me as a secret, he told me in a professional capacity.

    I am also a director. Our teams work closely together. We are doing next years planning and because of the nature of his work the exact timing of when he’ll be out could make a lot of difference. He will presumably be out for 1 month of paternity leave.

    Do I say anything? Ask him if he told C-suite? Don’t say anything for now?

    2. Don’t say anything. The “exact timing” of a pregnancy or birth is less fixed than you seem to think; birth can be months different from a due date, and early pregnancies can end unexpectedly. It’s his news to share and his timing considerations for leave to figure out without added pressure from you to hurry up.

      2. +1. My daughter came 6 weeks early. In such a case, he would be back before his planned leave

      3. +1 Babies arrive when they arrive. The due date is a just an estimate.

        Planning for parental leave is more about finding good coverage than knowing exact dates,

    3. If you’re actively planning a project and need to know his exact plans for 6 months from now, “Hi John, you know you’ll be needed on XYZ project, but I assume you’ll be out and want me to staff someone else? Have you told others yet? I don’t want to spill the beans, but I do need to move ahead with staffing.”

    4. Just make sure you know who is backup person is. Someone else on his team will have to step up while he’s away.

  18. Ugh. I posted last week about turning 40 and trying to say goodbye to a horrible couple of decades. Well, I just got told for the 16th year in a row that I won’t be promoted (have been stuck at entry+1 level despite changing employers and industries to work around my disability). Here’s to another year, if not decade, of poor career and financial (e.g. homeownership) prospects. Anyone have spare bottles of wine they want to send my way?
    (Thanks for reading, I feel better already)

    1. Sending you all the love and hugs. The world isn’t fair, especially for disabled women. I’m so sorry.

    3. I am so sorry. All the hugs.

      Is there a coach or therapist that can help you? It’s very hard to continue with work when you don’t feel fulfilled. Your perseverance is admirable.

  19. Hello- does anyone have recommendations for divorce lawyers in Singapore? A friend just found out about her spouse’s infidelity and I am trying to help.

  20. I’m such a Luddite- Can someone talk me through my options for using my phone while in Asia? Last time we travelled, I just paid AT&T the $10/day for international service, but I feel like there might be a cheaper option for a 10 day trip. We will be in Taiwan and Malaysia and we only do this kind of trip every three or four years.
    Or is the $10/day really the way to go? It would get pricy with two phones.
    We need to be able to text, use maps and internet, and ride share apps, and maybe make a phone call if we need.

    1. You can rent one of those pocket devices that provides wireless. We did this in Korea and it worked great. I don’t know if you can make calls with it, though.

    2. you might check the TripAdvisor forums for specific recs for each country, but what we do for most trips is buy an eSim (gets you a local number and cell coverage) for one of our phones. We use it as a hotspot as needed to get wifi for the others.

    3. My carrier has a $30/month (or similar) option for international coverage that worked great in China. Does AT&T not have a better option? There are fancier ways involving e-sim cards, but the month-long (re-upped twice) international plan with our carrier was easiest when my son was there for 9 weeks.

    4. Is it important that you can receive texts and voice calls sent to your current US #, or just that you can do texts and calls in general? If you need your current US # to work abroad, it is probably just worth paying AT&T the $200 (it would be worth switching carriers if you travel a lot though)
      If you don’t need your current # to work, I would either just buy a local SIM on arrival OR sign up for a month of Google Fi service (and get a new phone # from them; don’t go through the hassle of transferring your AT&T to Google Fi and back again)

    6. I take one 2-week vacation per year and I just use the $10/day option. It’s expensive but it’s reliable which in my mind makes it worth the cost.

Comments are closed.