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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Most of my favorite work pants these days are of the pull-on variety, and this burgundy pair from Old Navy looks like it would be a fabulous option for the fall.
This cut can skew a little casual, so I probably wouldn't wear these to a business formal office, but I think the pleated front and creased legs would make these pants appropriate for most business casual offices. Pair with your favorite work-appropriate tee and a sweater blazer for a comfortable, but professional, autumnal outfit.
The pants are $39.99 at Old Navy — with 40% off at checkout! — and come in regular sizes XS-4X, tall sizes S-XXL, and petite sizes XS-L. In addition to burgundy, they come in gray, black, navy, tan, and houndstooth.
There are a bunch of great pull-on pants for the office in 2024. Some of our longstanding favorites include those from Athleta*, Everlane, Eileen Fisher*, Betabrand*, and Uniqlo. If you're looking for something a bit more polished but still ultra comfy, check out Nic & Zoe* or NYDJ*. (Brands with plus sizes are marked with asterisks.)
Some particular styles we love are below:
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Anon
In light of the discussion about whether we should call her Kamala or Harris, I thought this article was interesting, especially these parts:
“I was like, ‘No, it’s not ‘Simon for Congress. It’s Lateefah for Congress.’ Kamala’s name has depth of meaning. It is an ethnic and cultural name. And it was given to her by her mother. Black people are more than our last names. Our last names don’t often tell the story of where we’re from and who we are,” Simon said.
As district attorney, she often used her first name with constituents. She viewed it as a way to shift the power dynamic, especially when communities of color have even less trust in government, let alone a prosecutor’s office… “I think that was a way to say like, you’re the boss. I’m working for you.”
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/16/kamala-harris-campaign-branding-00173064
Anon
Politicians want name recognition and probably want to use the part of their name that will maximize their name recognition. At minimum, we should let people decide what they want to be called and should not project our own opinions onto them in the absence of direction from them. That thread had some very “only on the internet!” takes.
Anon
This makes a lot of sense.
I think in the previous conversation, some commenters were projecting their own experiences of feeling disrespected at work but in different contexts. There are settings where it’s really obvious that e.g. university students, hospital patients, etc. default to using last names with faculty or physicians who are men, but first names for women, and sometimes this also reflects respecting the men more.
It’s also clear that women feel very differently about their last names! Some women clearly own their last names as their own, and others carry them lightly as the names of fathers or grandfathers that they never felt really belonged to them in the first place and that may change anyway.
Anon
I generally feel like the argument that women’s names are their father’s makes no sense (so are men’s) but in the case of Black people (men or women), I can see the case for wanting to emphasize the name that was chosen and represents your identity, not given by someone who owned your family.
Anon
Personally, I changed my last name to my husband’s when we married several decades ago. That was the norm in my social circle at the time, but if I could go back now I would keep my father’s name. I still feel like my spouse’s last name isn’t really mine, and I don’t like it when it gets used. It does not matter if it is Ms. Doe or hey Doe, I really prefer to go by Jane.
FWIW, my first and last names are both similarly uncommon while also being familiarly traditional, so one is not easier or more unique than the other. I just don’t like being referred to by my spouse’s last name, even if the people doing it never knew me as anything else.
Anon
I never changed my name though now I wish I did. I think I think of my husband’s name as his father’s or grandfather’s name more than as his?
I only really think of my first name as my name.
Anon
It’s interesting that you call YOUR name your “father’s last name,” but your husband’s name is HIS name. You don’t talk about taking your husband’s father’s name.
Do you see the problem here?
Anon
Yes, I see the problem in that you extrapolate your feelings about my wording as though they are the only valid view.
Anon
Anon at 10:39: My father’s last name also happens to be the one I have identified happily with for my entire life. It represents someone I love and respect deeply, as well as an ancestral heritage of which I am proud. Why do you see this as a problem? What alternate solution do you propose to your perceived problem?
Senior Attorney
I have my first husband’s name, which I took mainly for aesthetic reasons way back when, and changed back to after also taking Husband No 2’s name at his insistence (ugh!), even though I am now married to No. 3. Anyway, I feel like women’s first names are uniquely their own and that goes double for Black women for the reason stated above.
Anon
I never changed my last name. I don’t think of it lightly. It has been my name since I was born!
Anon
Agreed. FWIW, several years ago, I did some volunteer work for a (white male) candidate for Congress, who went by a very normal, “folksy” nickname for a common first name, and had a last name which is not extremely unusual but not obvious how to spell or pronounce to English speakers. There was a big discussion about whether to focus on his first name or last for campaign materials, and they decided on first, since it was more accessible and relatable.
(He won, and is still in Congress.)
That said, while I feel perfectly comfortable calling this guy by his first name, since I knew him before he ran, it sort of grates on me when people call politicians in general by their first names. They’re not your buddy!
Anon
But politicians want you to think they are. They invite familiarity. It’s part of the job.
Anon
I know; that’s my objection! I don’t like when people fall for it!
Anon
This reads like trying to take back control of a situation where you’ve lost it – like the boys refuse to call me Harris so I’ll pretend it’s what I wanted all along anyway. But honestly, who cares now? She could call herself Mary Sue and I’ll still vote for her.
Anonymous
i don’t think that’s what it sounds like at all! especially since in my experience in male-dominated fields they’d all rather call you your last name anyway.
Anon
Major projection here.
Cora
I think people are just going to use the slightly more unique part of their name. Bernie is more unique than sanders. Biden is more unique than Joe. Kamala is more unique than Harris.
Anon
This.
Anon
Fun fact – I got a text from “Joe” and spent a few minutes mentally assessing all the Joes I know and why they would ask me for money before I clicked that it was “that” Joe. I know he wanted to seem relatable but it didn’t help! Whereas I don’t know any other Kamalas.
Anon
Nancy throws me for a loop, because I know several and none in a capacity where they would text me asking for money.
Anon
Yeah, Pelosi has always gone by Pelosi, which makes sense!
Anon
I feel like Nancy Pelosi goes by Nancy Pelosi, always both names.
Anon
There’s a character in Never Have I Ever named Kamala. I always wondered if it was a reference to *that* Kamala since I too don’t know any Kamalas, and I know a lot of Indian people.
Anon
It’s definitely a reference. Kamala Harris’s middle name is Devi.
Anon
The people who were saying this on the first thread were getting dogpiled, haha. But it’s so obviously true. Obama was lucky that both of his names are unique, but Obama is easier to spell (it’s phonetic) and more aurally pleasing (English-speaking ears tend to prefer the softness of vowel-heavy words rather than the “k” sound). But you know you’d know who people were talking about with either his first or his last name!
Anon
I think that’s part of the appeal for Kamala over Harris as well. Kamala is such a pretty name that rolls right off the tongue, like Obama, and Harris is harsh sounding, like Barack. Even the Republicans who are making fun of her name are doing it in part because it’s fun to say and sticks in your head, and for a politician, that’s a huge plus.
orchid
Not exactly the same, but in my very blue county, we have an all female judiciary. It was widely speculated that a woman who was assumed to be a shoo-in a few years ago lost because her first name is not clearly female. She is running again, and used FIRST MIDDLE on her signs and elsewhere. There are many strategic reasons to go by one thing or another.
Senior Attorney
Some years ago in Los Angeles County, some random lawyer (who hadn’t even been practicing and was rated “unqualified” by the bar association) ran against a very VERY well-respected judge who had a very unusual and “foreign-sounding” name and managed to unseat her. It was a huge scandal at the time and several other judges (I remember one with an Indian name) had to beat back similar challenges before the whole thing died down. Names are important for all kinds of reasons. (P.S. the first judge was reappointed by the governor so at least her story ended fairly happily.)
Anonymous
Yeah, I just don’t see this as an issue at all. But I could always ask Mayor Pete.
Anon
We should trust women. Except when they express their preference for how to be addressed. This whole “issue” is baffling to me.
Anon
Yeah, my spouse is usually very supportive of respecting women’s agency. Except when Dr. Biden insisted on using her title, because he thought it was egotistical or some such garbage. He quietly trailed off from expounding on this opinion when he saw murder in my eyes.
Anon
I’m looking for restaurant recs for a pre-show lunch spot. The theater is on 43rd between 6th & 7th and we’ll be coming from Grand Central. Thanks!
AIMS
If you’re coming from GC, I would go to the Oyster Bar and walk over.
Anonymous
+1 to Oyster Bar
another option: the Westin at 43/7 is really solid. not great food but good vibe, convenient, clean, not full of crazy tourists. just go up the escalator to the dining area. check on lunch though i’ve always been there for dinner.
check out Campbell’s Apartments afterwards for a drink! at grand central.
Anonymous
I am here to recommend against the oyster bar. The last time I was there it was dirty and the food was substandard.
Anon
More room for me I guess. I love the oyster bar. I also love eating in the bar area with the surly waiters and everything.
anon
Sen Sakana—Peruvian Japenese. By far the best restaurant in this area.
Anonymous
I thought Oyster Bar had closed forever. So glad to see it hasn’t. I like both current recs – Oyster Bar and Sen Sakana. I’ll throw out Lidia Bastianich’s Becco on 46th as an alternative. I’ve recommended all three here before.
NYC612
I am frequently in the area and I would recommend any of the following:
Oceania
Glass House Tavern
Cafe Un Deux Trois
Becco
Osteria al Doge
Kellari Taverna
Trattoria Trecolori
All of these are within a few blocks of each other.
Enjoy!
AIMS
For pants like this – do you feel the need to cover up the tie waist tie (what do you call that?) if wearing to the office? I wear plenty of pull on pants to work on casual-ish days when I want to be comfy but the tie waist always feels like a bridge too far (on dresses like this too, although not necessarily with tie waist belts that come with dresses because those feel more purposeful). I’ve covered it up with longer tops but prefer to tuck in these days so just wondering if anyone else has thoughts on this.
Cat
I share your feelings.
Anon
+1, I think a visible tie waist just screams ‘super casual’ in a way that I can’t square with office attire. I’d wear these for work from home days or travel days for sure though.
Anon
+1
don't want no scrubs
they scream “scrubs”
Anon
Glad I’m in California because this would never occur to me.
Anon
Haha, as a native Californian, I deeply get you.
Anonymous
i would never tuck with a pull-on pant — maybe a bodysuit but tucking seems really weird to me with a pull-on.
but you can also just tuck the ties inside the waistband…
Anon
I feel like you have to tuck (not that I would ever in a million years wear this pant) otherwise the drape over the tie would just be extremely wide and lumpy.
Anon
I don’t like the ties even for casual wear, but would remove them completely and be much more likely to wear these with a tucked (or half tucked) top to the office on a casual day.
Brontosaurus
I try to avoid visible drawstrings for work pants. I have a previous season’s version of these pants and the drawstring is on the inside, which is nice.
I have no qualms about showing off an elastic waist, tho.
smurf
I don’t like pants with a skinny drawstring like this for work, even in my biz casual office. A wider tie waist (like 1″) – I do like, it’s more statement and less athleisure.
Wide Leg Pants
Has anyone here tried IRL the Ripley Rader wide leg ponte pant? Or the Spanx version? I like the style. Seems like Loft has a dupe and wondering if the price difference is worth it.
anon4
I have the RR pants. I like them although I haven’t found myself wearing them a ton. The top is like a flat yoga pant basically, so I have a hard time figuring out what to do with a shirt. Like is it okay to just wear a tucked in shirt with them?
Anon
I was wondering if there are any updates from the poster who gave her nephew an account with $20,000 in it for college and never got a thank you?
Anonymous
oh man i missed that story! yikes.
Anon
Ha, that’s me. Additional updates: the account was handed over to our nephew earlier this summer who now has full control of the funds. Nephew has not (to our knowledge) withdrawn the funds but we no longer have any insight into the account. For those who asked if it was stocks, yes as this was a UTMA, but he can sell it and withdraw all the money anytime he wants as he’s now 21. Nephew was also a business major with a finance minor so he ‘gets’ that this is real money and how to access it.
No thanks were given and no mention of it made at his graduation party by either my nephew or inlaws (we gave a nominal ‘fun’ gift at the party, which we also did not get any thanks for). I’m still annoyed about the disrespectful way that this was handled but we didn’t raise it with my husband’s family (this is my SIL’s kid so I followed my husband’s wishes to let it go). At the end of the day we hope that the money make his starting out in the adult world easier and it was given with love so we’re trying to keep that in the forefront of our minds.
Anon
You are healthy and well-adjusted and a better, less petty person than I am. Kudos.
Anon
Aww, thank you. Not going to lie, the folks insisting this was somehow our fault was painful. The other posters reminding me that sometimes teens/young adults are thoughtless and it likely has very little to do with us helped. Plus, life is short and it’s healthier for us if we continue to think of this as a gift given in love and support despite any recognition (or lack thereof).
Anon
Life is short. I appreciate your attitude on this.
Anon
I don’t care what you post, or how benign it is, commenters on this board will always find a way to place fault on the OP. Always. Sometimes the creativity is impressive.
Anon
I think (and hope!) you will probably get a long-delayed thank you when this kid is old enough to realize that he’s been a tool. I know I’ve gone back and thanked my older relatives for things they did when I was in my teens/early 20s now that I’m in my 30s and old enough to understand the significance of those things.
Anon
I’m absolutely stunned that anyone could think that’s an appropriate way to react – seriously, there are zero excuses. I wrote a handwritten thank-you card to a distant uncle who gave me $9 worth of baby supplies, FFS! You’re certainly handling it more healthily than I would.
Anonymous
love this attitude — well done
Senior Attorney
Good grief you are a better woman than I am. I salute you for both the gift and your attitude after the fact. (Did he ruin it for the rest of the niblings? I kind of hope he did…)
Anonny
This reminds me of when DH and I purchased a $20,000 vehicle for his daughter when she turned 16. I never heard a thank you. I didn’t grow up in a family that could afford to ever purchase a car for me, and I was stunned that those magic words were never forthcoming.
Clara
What are your favorite clothes to take on trips?
I travel a lot for work, but everywhere I’m going is basically business casual. So I’m looking for pants that will look good enough for work, can be dressed up or down, don’t wrinkle too easily, etc. These would actually be great but even with our casual setting I’m not sure about the tie waist.
Anonymous
honestly costco has some great travel pants — they’re lightweight, pull-on but flat front, ankle-length, and have a different fabric down the side of the pants that helps hold their fit and probably is good for wrinkles too.
Anon
Someone here recommended the Delaney sweater pant from jcrew. It’s cropped, but I’m 5’6 and ordered the tall version so it’s full length. I ordered every color available. They’re great.
anon a mouse
I’m a big fan of the ponte pants from Universal Standard. They travel like a dream, there are a few different cuts.
Been there
I love ponte pants for business travel. You can dress them up with a blazer or down with a tshirt. They are comfortable with little if any wrinkling. I have them from Loft and Quince.
ABanon
Tell me about your Quince pair? I’m just about to pull the trigger on them. I’m wondering if they’re friendly to an apple-shape (bigger waist) and also if they truly look like dress pants in person. Just looking for some night-out and/or travel pants. It doesn’t say but am I right to presume they’re mid-rise? How are they in humid weather?
Been there
I’m hourglass and they gap in the waist for me–I have 3 pairs of the straight leg. They don’t gap enough for me to take to a tailor. I know people who are apple shaped that love them too. I had to go up one size from my normal so they weren’t too tight in the rear. They are not going to look like fine wool suiting but with a nice blazer they do the job. I have worn them in the summer in Texas and have been fine but don’t tend to spend a lot of time outdoors in them. Two of my three pair were purchased last year and I wear them almost every week and they still look great but I don’t put them in the dryer.
ABanon
@been there, thanks so much for your detailed reply. I’m going to order some.
anon
I have this amazing pair of pants from Amazon, they’re wide leg, with a wide belt that you tie at the front. They’re polyester but looks sort of silky and I get compliments every time I wear them. They look really elegant. They’re comfortable and easy to travel with. I don’t remember the brand but I just searched and it looks like there is a similar pair from Anrabess.
Digby
Depending on the climate and time of year – black wool pants from Unbound Merino, Wool&, or Woolx are great. They work for almost any event, can be dressed up or down, pack small, don’t wrinkle.
Runcible
Chicos Hutton pants — wide-leg, silky flowy pants that can be dressed up or down. Part of the Traveler’s line, if you are familiar with Chicos clothing.
Mammogram call back - good thoughts needed
Reporting back from last week – all was clear on my repeat 3D mammogram. Phew.
I do have densities in one area, but according to the radiologist the exact way they position you for the screening mammograms can lead to certain areas of tissue not being spread out enough, and creating suspicious spots.
I was able to discuss my current imaging schedule (alternating mammograms and MRIs every year, with ultrasounds in between), and the radiologist was ok with this plan.
An interesting insight was also that for most breast cancers, the time for a tumor doubling in volume is about 6-9 months, and on imaging this would appear as the radius of the area growing by about 25-30%. So, if you see a small area or miss it the first time (let’s say 0.4 cm), it may take a year or two for it to get to a size were now it is consistently showing up on the image (at 0.8 cm, for example). Usually, these tumors stay focused for a while.
There are of course exceptions like inflammatory breast cancer which spread very aggressively, but these are very rare in my demographic. So, if I ever get called back again, and with my regular baseline mammograms, it would be unlikely that a tumor has very suddenly grown and spread everywhere.
Given my family history, the doctor said I may consider genetic testing if I wish, but the question is whether the results influence any prevention or treatment plan. With my current imaging plan, the additional benefit of genetic testing would likely be very small.
Anon
I am glad you are OK.
Anon
Great news. Thanks for sharing!
I’d consider the genetic testing. If they found a moderate or higher risk cancer gene, they would change you to MRIs every year (the best screening test) alternating with mammograms and not bother with ultrasounds. You would then be followed in the high risk breast clinic with more breast exams done by clinicians. You might also be eligible for a clinical trial. Based on early results of a clinical trial, I was started on Duavee to help prevent breast cancer, as well as to treat my perimenopausal symptoms/prevent osteoporosis etc..
I also wanted to know to help the next generation… my nieces, so they could get tested if I’m positive, since they would need to start their screenings earlier if they were positive.
But some people don’t like that all that knowledge. I do.
Mammogram call back - good thoughts needed
Thank you for these insights, I will consider it.
One thing that makes me wonder is whether all this intense imaging also has side effects.
I mean, if you shoot X-rays into your tissue every year for 30 years (age 40-70), wouldn’t that favor the emergence of mutations? With MRI contrast agents, some isotopes may accumulate in your brain.
Note that I am a bioscientist by training, work in big pharma, and definitely don’t hold any weird beliefs about therapies, vaccinations, conspiracies of big evil pharma, and alternative medicine. I would never forgo any established treatment, but I think those aspects need consideration, as well.
In Germany, where I also see a breast specialist every year, the screening recommendations are different. It may reflect the different economies of the respective healthcare systems (in Germany, it may be ok to detect cancer later if screening intervals are larger, and it is cheaper in Germany to treat someone, whereas in the US it may be economically beneficial to detect things earlier).
Anonymous
I’d do a quick pubmed search for peace of mind to see if there are any studies on this, although it’s certainly hard to narrow long-term effects.
In early career, I recall being concerned about lab exposure to chemicals. Small numbers of studies aren’t that reassuring, but there were some that found that chemists don’t have higher incidences of cancer than the general population (but maybe doesn’t apply to biology labs where we’re less trained and more casual about handling). Anyway I left the bench so I write it off as a previous risk like childhood sunburns. What are you going to do.
A la Emily Oster, I think there’s some risk assessment here. For you personally is more screening versus family history the bigger risk.
Anon
I did the genetic testing and it was negative. Yet my mother, grandmother and cousin all had breast cancer. I did want the knowledge and access to more tests if it was positive so that’s why I did it. But at the same time I look at my family and there is clearly something going on so … the negative test didn’t do much for my anxiety. Glad OP is ok and I had the exact same thing where I was squished weird one time and needed the diagnostic.
Mammogram call back - good thoughts needed
In your case I would be much more concerned, as well.
In my family my mom is the only one with a BC history, no maternal line relative has had anything (including ovarian cancer).
Anon
I would feel exactly the same as you Anon @ 10:46am. Do you know what genetic testing you had? Just BRCA, or the whole panel of cancer genes? Your family probably does have a genetic contributor, but one that we just haven’t characterized well enough for regular testing.
With your history, and based on the ages of your family members when you are diagnosed, some breast specialists would recommend earlier/more rigorous screening based on family history alone. And if you have dense breasts (as many of us do), current recs would recommend alternating ultrasound screenings with mammogram (each once a year). Good luck. And I feel you on the anxiety…
Anonymous
I don’t know when you had genetic testing, but it may be worth revisiting with a genetic counselor. Of course, there’s BRCA, but there are a number of other genetic changes, usually in genes involved in cell cycle pathways, that can result in increased cancer risk. Tests keep evolving, so if you previously had a single genetic loci test or small panel, there may be additional options now. There can also be novel familial variants. Some companies may offer whole genome/whole exome screening for unknown familial diseases, but this isn’t standard of care generally.
Anonymous
has anyone updated their wifi router lately? thinking about it after the story in the NYT. in general, have you done anything to your home office that really made an impact on speed and consistency of service?
(we’re on the business level of fiber, which is supposedly the best, but seems to drop out on us all the time)
Anecdata
I work in telecoms & I see people consistently upgrade their Internet/complain the internet is slow, when the problem is really the wifi or the end device (if safari is slow to load pages when you have 30 open tabs on your 10 year old MacBook). ISPs absolutely take advantage of this to get people into package upgrades they don’t need.
So quick things-
If you’re using anything older than wifi 5 (802.12.ac) on your router, definitely upgrade (just skip to 6 at this point though). If sone devices are worse than others, check the wifi standard on the actual device.
Does it get better if you connect the device to your router with an ethernet (cat 5 or better)? if yes, that is a strong indicator you need better Wi-Fi.
When it drops out, run a speed test that gives you upload speed, download speed & latency at minimum – you want all of these numbers to help talk with the ISP about what’s making it “slow”. If all of those numbers look good, Google “buffer bloat speed test” and run whichever one pops up on top
Anon
This right here. I live in an extremely remote area near the Canadian border, with copper lines and DSL. My internet slow by modern standards, but works fine for my needs because I exercise good hygiene with my computer – keep things updated, restart regularly, clean up unused tabs, etc.
anonshmanon
but I NEED all those tabs!!!!!
Anonymous
they’re my emotional support tabs
but seriously – the app OneTab helps a lot on Chrome because you can collapse them
for Safari on iPhone I haven’t found anything… I’ve hit the 500-tab limit a few times.
Anecdata
Get a laptop with more ram and you can have your tabs! Just don’t let your internet provider tell you you need 5GB download speeds for them
Anon
LOL, I cannot fathom functioning with a zillion tabs open but the different ways we all prefer to operate are so fascinating.
I close every tab, every window, and every app at the end of every day. And on my phone, everything gets swiped closed and all tabs get X-ed out every time I set my phone down. It takes all kinds!
Anon
Thank you for this excellent advice.
Anonymous
We had a ton of internet connectivity issues when my husband and I both started WFH in 2020. We upgraded the cable modem and the WiFi router to little effect. We had the cable company out several times and one tech finally discovered that there was a staple going through the coax cable in the crawl space. Fixing that helped a lot.
Upgrading your service won’t help if the wiring in your house or your network equipment can’t handle the speeds.
Senior Attorney
Link to the story? Or tell me the headline?
Anonymous
Has anyone here tried Alexander Technique to improve posture? There’s a studio nearby that teaches it and I’ve read about actors using it, but it’s kind of hard to tell what it’s even about and sessions are $$$$. My posture is bad and I feel like I’ve tried everything (yes even Pilates).
Anon
Have you tried farmers walks? When I’m at the gym I take two 25 pound kettle bells (or whatever weight works for you) stand up straight, put my shoulders back/down, and walk the length of the space and back. I do it three times and it’s done wonders for my own posture. Obviously do your own research, but it worked for me.
Anon
I will assume then that you have tried yoga but I can’t help myself from evangelizing about it. It has really helped my posture.
I get these social media ads for the Forme bra which is said to improve posture. Has anyone tried it?
Anon
I haven’t tried the Forma bra, but I’ve tried cloth braces and corsets. For me they’re more of a reminder to engage my muscles and hold my posture than an actual brace holding it in place, which is exactly what I want to keep building strength and a good habit.
Mpls
I’ve tried it and am pretty sure I got the right size, but it was sports bra x1000 trying to take it off. And the armholes were cut too high and so were uncomfortable. Never used it.
Anon
I guess if you’ve tried everything you’ve put your health insurance covered benefits to work on this already? Did an orthopedist or a (good) PT say what the issue was?
I have never tried Alexander Technique and thought it was popular among actors because it’s more about mindset, confidence, and poise, but since I haven’t tried it either, I may not know!
Anon
I find yoga more useful, but I did some Alexander years ago. I’m a musician and it was hugely popular among classical musicians for a period.
Anonymous
Can you say more about what it actually is? Did they help with posture at your instrument? Some kind of special strength training or stretching?
Anonymous
Ha, I didn’t know that anyone besides musicians studied the Alexander technique. It was all the rage when I was in music school.
For posture I’d recommend ballet classes or yoga.
Anonymous
for romance readers, these are my 5-star reads for the year:
– not another love song, julie soto (and forget-me-not)
– change of heart, kate canterbary
– not in love, hazelwood
– seven year slip, ashley poston
– ten things i hate about the duke, loretta chase
– last days of lilah goodluck, kylie scott
– her baseborn bridegroom, alice coldbreath
– bound to the battle god, ruby dixon
(67 books read this year)
Anonymous
darnit
Senior Attorney
Did you walk around with them on your head and did it help your posture?
Jules
LOL
An.On.
Can we get a book recommendation/what is everyone reading thread?
I just finished reading Very Bad Company, and while it’s not exactly a modern classic, it was just what I want for a beach read. Much more fun to read than the Sicilian Inheritance. I’m starting the Warm Hands of Ghosts and Cassandra in Reverse and both are starting off strong so far!
Anon
Super light reading for the end of summer: Lies and Weddings by Kevin Kwan, author of Crazy Rich Asians. It was fun and lighthearted, just what I needed in a season of heavy.
Anon
That was fun.
Anon
I’m reading historical fiction books by Elizabeth Chadwick and really enjoying them. The Eleanor of Aquitaine trilogy was great – the right blend of meticulous research and storytelling to fill in gaps in the history.
Vicky Austin
I LOVE those!! I should reread them.
Anon
Loved Very Bad Company! Same reaction. Her previous book was good too. Other fun beach reads:
Summer Romance
The Briar Club
I’m on The Women right now. Not sure if it’s worth it or not yet. Perhaps too predictable?
An.On.
I found it extremely predictable but also very moving nonetheless. And I have the Briar Club on hold right now, but it says it’s a six month wait :(
Anon
I was very meh on The Women. Hugely cliched, and apparently a pretty direct ripoff of a memoir written by a female nurse in Vietnam.
Anonny
I liked it, but I also skimmed a lot. Worth it if you don’t read every word.
Anon
Very Bad Company is by the author of Bad Summer People, right?
I’m on vacation this week and am having a wisdom tooth out on Monday (ughhh) so have been plowing through a huge stack of books but mostly on the lighter side. I’m reading the second Cormoran Strike book now. Just finished Ruth Ware’s latest One Perfect Couple, which was much better than I expected from mediocre Goodreads reviews – not deep literature by any means, but for me pretty hard to put down. Also enjoyed Happiness for Beginners for a PG rom/com.
emeralds
LOVED Warm Hands of Ghosts, that was the last book I read that I would wholeheartedly recommend. Otherwise I’ve been on a bit of a murder mystery kick, mostly stuff that’s been meh but entertaining enough. I finished Katharine Schellman’s new one a couple of weeks ago, The Last Note of Warning…It wasn’t my favorite in the series, but I would still recommend the series overall, plus her Lily Adler series for anyone looking for historical mysteries that feel period-appropriate but still have a strong feminist lens.
anon
I loved Warm Hands of Ghosts so much.
buffybot
I really enjoyed the Ministry of Time (quick read, enjoyed the tone, found it genuinely funny, plot a bit silly). Finally finished The Overstory – for a book that grabbed me so completely in the front half, it was a really hard finish because it was just so sad. Beautiful writing. Did Such a Bad Influence a month or two ago and it was quick and reasonably engaging. Am also reading outloud His Dark Materials with my kid and it just wonderfully holds up.
Anon
Now I’m nervous about The Overstory! A friend and I are planning a buddy read when he’s finished with the current book he’s reading. We both like the author a lot and can tolerate sad, but this is a good clue to squeeze in something lighthearted before I get going.
Anon
Poison Study! I picked it up after reading Throne of Glass (which I found disappointingly mediocre). A Goodreads reviewer who perfectly described my thoughts about ToG suggested PS and I loved it.
Anon
I’m continuing my Janice Hallett binge with the Twyford Code. I liked the Appeal a lot and was extremely meh on Alperton Angels. I am enjoying this one, but we’ll see how she resolves it.
Anonymous
for romance readers, these are my 5-star reads for the year:
– not another love song, julie soto (and forget-me-not)
– change of heart, kate canterbary
– not in love, hazelwood
– seven year slip, ashley poston
– ten things i hate about the duke, loretta chase
– last days of lilah goodluck, kylie scott
– her baseborn bridegroom, alice coldbreath
– bound to the battle god, ruby dixon
(67 books read this year)
anon
This Plague of Souls by Mike McCormack. I picked it up at the Dublin airport on the way home from vacation. It’s a tense read that pulled me in even though I didn’t think I was in the right mood to read it.
Anon
These are books that I’ve liked not loved, but I’d still recommend: Moonbound by Robin Sloan, The God of the Woods by Liz Moore, The Ministry of Time by Kaliane Bradley, The Glassmaker by Tracy Chevalier, Cahokia Jazz by Francis Spufford, Burma Sahib by Paul Theroux.
.
Digby
I love Robin Sloan’s previous books and didn’t know there was a new one – thanks for the heads-up!
Anon
Anything by Jennifer Weiner.
Vicky Austin
I’m in a bit of a slump, but The Passion of Artemisia by Susan Vreeland was my most recent and it was really good.
Anon
I just recently finished H Is For Hawk and adored it!!
I had never heard of it until I looked at that NYT 100 Best Books list, and it immediately grabbed me for some reason (even though I don’t read memoir that often). I cried several times, mostly happy tears, and enjoyed every moment. For people who like audiobooks, the author does a great job reading it herself.
I also just finished Unlikely Animals, and it was quite charming.
Vicky Austin
Oh, I love that book. I think about the line “the carpet salesman at the battle of Thermopylae” all the time.
Anon
I’ve started reading the classics I’ve missed. Just finished House of Seven Gables and loved it (despiiised The Scarlet Letter in whatever grade that was, so was pleased to enjoy HSG).
Anon.
I am reading Sourdough by Robin Sloan and enjoying it a lot.
Anon
I recently finished In the Woods by Tana French and Daisy Darker by Alice Feeny. The Tana French was slow going for me for a while, but on the whole I enjoyed it. The Alice Feeney started out faster for me but I did not like the ending. I’m eagerly waiting for another Louise Penny that I have on hold on Libby.
Where do you typically go (aside from here) for book recommendations? I’m on Goodreads but looking for additional resources. I was never a big read for pleasure person, but I’m really getting into it now and want to keep up my momentum.
Anon
I have a friend who I seem to share book taste with, and we periodically text to say “have you read ___?” She likes some genres/topics I don’t and vice versa, but a 10/10 book for one of us is going to be at least an 8/10 book for the other.
But honestly…I have done all the algorithmic and socially book recommendation places, and the only thing that works for me is going to the library, picking a book up that looks interesting, and reading the first couple chapters. I judge books by their covers all the time, and it rarely has steered me wrong!
Anon
I stumbled upon a top reviewer on Goodreads who seems to share my taste, so I read pretty much everything she rates 4 or 5 stars and some things she rates 3 stars if they sound appealing.
I have one local friend who’s a big reader, so we share recs, although our tastes are pretty different.
I read most popular new releases in contemporary/literary fiction and some in mystery/thriller, sci fi and romance.
An.On.
Try Bookriot and Modern Mrs Darcy to start – both free and tons of lists and recs. Reddit has lots of options too. I get a lot of mine from other online links and lists (like “summer reads of 2024” kind of stuff – check newspapers and magazine sites) and honestly, People magazine.
Anon
Try Bookriot and Modern Mrs Darcy to start – both free and tons of lists and recs. Reddit has lots of options too. I get a lot of mine from other online links and lists (like “summer reads of 2024” kind of stuff – check newspapers and magazine sites) and honestly, People magazine.
312
I am loving Elin Hilderbrand’s newest, Swan Song. wish I could spend the rest of summer in Nantucket.
Senior Attorney
I’ve read 78 books so far this year (retirement is great!) and am currently binging my way through the Molly Sutton mysteries by Nell Goddin. Not setting the world on fire but who doesn’t love a cozy mystery about an American divorcee who moves to a village in France, opens a small hotel, and solves mysteries on the side? The first on is called The Third Girl.
My book club just did The Storied Life of A.J. Fikry by Gabrielle Zevin (she of Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow) and we all loved it.
Other favorites this year:
Long Island Compromise by Taffy Brodesser-Akner
The God of the Woods by Liz Moore
The Dictionary of Lost Words by Pip Williams
I Cheerfully Refuse by Lief Enger
Husbands by Holly Gramazio
Oh, and I gobbled up the Three Body Problem trilogy by Cixin Liu and it was a lot but I loved it.
Jules
I’m in the last chapter of The Husbands and loving it; just finished Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow and also enjoyed it quite a bit. I also really liked The Final Act of Juliette Willhougby, a mystery that takes place in the 1930s, 1990s and the present day.
ArenKay
I really loved James by Perceval Everett, and Anne Berest’s The Postcard
Anonymous
I’ve been on a bit of a popular biography kick lately, and am reading the Barbra Streisand bio. It’s chatty and very internal, and I weirdly love it.
Anon
Because aging is awesome I have a few sebaceous hyperplasia on my face. For those who are blissfully not familiar, they are bumps that occur when sebaceous glands get enlarged from trapped sebum. They’re kind of like zits you can’t pop. I use tretinoin but they aren’t going away. Has anyone tried any of the at-home OTC plasma pen type remedies, or had electrocautery or anything else done by a derm? Thanks.
Anonymous
I had electrocautery done by an aesthetician at a cosmetic dermatology practice. It was easy and I’ll do it again if I get a bunch more in the future. I think they formed little scabs that fell off after about a week.
Anon
Interesting…. How pricey? Does she do a bunch at once?
I also have a lot of these and getting more and more with aging. My dermatologist (who focuses on my more serious derm issues) just brushes it off when I ask her each year if there is anything…..
I have very sensitive skin and acne/rosacea etc… Do you already have pretty hardy skin? Wondering if I can tolerate this technique.
Anonymous
At my clinic, either the cosmetic derm would do it, or an aesthetician and the aesthetician was less expensive. I went with the aesthetician. I can’t remember exactly how much it cost. If you’re just having a few zapped, each one cost a certain amount, but I had a bunch and after 10, everything else was the same amount and she just kept going taking care of everything she could see for the length of the appointment. She worked on my face, neck, chest, and one on my hand. I want to say it was maybe $200 for a 30 minute appointment. I do have sensitive skin and tolerated it well, but no rosacea. If you have a cosmetic dermatology clinic by you, it’s worth getting a consult.
Anon
How does it work? Does it create a scar? Does the pore form a head and the sebum comes out? I can’t imagine it.
Anonymous
Nope, no scarring for me. They zap it and then are able to squeeze the stuff out. There are YouTube videos of the procedure being done or people posting before/afters on skincare Reddit.
Anon
I’ve had a few milia under my eyes removed by a derm, I believe this would be similar, right? It was super fast and largely painless. I do cosmetic treatments and the dermatologist just did this bit before botox.
Anon
I’d check with a dermatologist about options. I’ve had a bunch of skin tags removed and it’s usually a 20 minute procedure and done, very very easy and they walk you through aftercare to avoid infection.
Anon
I have one that I thought was squamous cell carcinoma. The derm who checked it out said it would cost $150 to get rid of it, but he thought it wasn’t doing me any harm so I left it. I think he said he would freeze it off.
Lexi
Check out Dr. Dray on this topic: https://youtu.be/TZqajjJcXVs?si=xdnRvNocisy2-N_j
Love her, she did a video on it recently. I had no idea about the relationship with androgyn hormones.
Anon
When I was younger, DVF dresses were billed as do-anything dresses and they really were (for people they worked for, which was not me, but they really understood the assignment otherwise). Is it me or is there nothing really like that now? When did dresses become so specific — what you wear to work you can’t also wear to a shower or shopping or on a date. You need a separate dress for each of them and somehow they have also become seasonal, so the summer dress does not work for winter.
If I could get a DVF dress that works on a perimenopausal flat-chested pear who is also short (so in addition to other figure challenges, the waist on DVF hits me at the high hip level), I’d buy 1 or 5.
Anon
I’m sad that wrap dresses aren’t “in” anymore, but I think it’s a function of everything being maxi, midi, or mini length. Wraps work for a lot but need to be approximately knee-length.
Anon
I *hate* this trend. Give me a knee-length a-line or wrap dress any day.
Anon
I’m the Anon at 10:42 and agree. It’s the near-total disappearance of knee-length (IMHO, the most classic and for me, flattering length out there) that irks me. Cannot wait for them to be back.
Anon
No, wrap dresses don’t work well for our shape. I find that faux wrap can be great.
Anon
I am also a flat-chested pear and find A-line, fit & flare, swing, and properly tailored sheaths to all be much more flattering for my body shape than DVF-style or faux-wrap dresses ever were.
Anons
In general if you could wear the exact same outfit on a Saturday night date I don’t think it’s office appropriate. But the move toward casual office dress codes means you can wear individual pieces both during the workday and weekends. A midi skirt with a boat neck sweater vs a bodysuit, jeans with a blazer vs a t-shirt, etc. It’s less common to require two entirely separate wardrobes nowadays, so I’m not mourning the loss of one particular dress style
Anon
When did we start wearing bodysuits for fashion (vs ballet) and not just very tight or clingy tops? I hate the VPL and having two layers trapping heat / steam and the snaps.
Anon
*We* don’t. I’ve never seen a body suit worn by a real life person. They seem way too uncomfortable and I can’t imagine they are flattering on most body types.
emeralds
You’ve seen them, you just don’t know since they’re worn tucked into pants or a skirt.
Signed,
A real person who has a body suit
Anonymous
You can totally tell when someone is wearing a bodysuit! It’s a much different look than a tucked-in top. I haven’t seen many adults wearing them, though. My teenage daughter has one because she couldn’t find an actual top she liked to go with a certain pair of pants.
DC Inhouse Counsel
I have a few that I love and I am definitely not skinny. I hate tucking in regular tops because they always bunch weird, so I like that bodysuits tuck in smoothly.
Anon
I used to dance, and dancers have been wearing them in non-dance-related outfits since at least the 90s.
I honestly think they’re trendy now with the broader population because we’ve moved away from stigmatizing a woman with a normal or above normal amount of body fat wearing something that “shows every lump and bump”, so people are more comfortable wearing things that are that clingy. They just used to be solely the provenance of the ultraskinny.
Cerulean
I remember wearing bodysuits in the early/mid 90s. Never wore them for ballet, although I guess technically they’re just leotards with snaps in the crotch. I’m in my late 30s and I know lots of people that wear them.
Anon
I have more “me” around the middle than I used to now that I’m in my 50s, so the style of dress I tend to feel more comfortable in now is a shift dress. A shift is something that is more straight up and down than a sheath dress. It doesn’t have that level of fitting the curves.
My favorite shift dress does have some seaming under the bust to bring it in a little bit, but I can still pull the whole thing over my head. It’s comfortable. I have worn it to a wedding. I’ve worn it for a work occasion, and I could certainly wear it on the weekend.
It’s probably more of a weekend dress to be honest, but I made it work for the garden wedding with my usual interesting Kojima pearls and some funky shoes I crowdsourced on here.
anon
There’s no one ubiquitous dress now, though didn’t someone post a week or so ago there is a Tuckernuck dress that she saw several people wearing on one call.
Anonymous
The DVF wrap dress was never, ever a do-anything dress. It didn’t work for most people, and the only occasion for which it was truly appropriate was secretarial work.
Anon
…Did we live through the same early 2000s? DVF had a major revival, and while I certainly agree it isn’t flattering on every body type, a lot of lawyers I worked with were wearing them to the office on more casual days.
Anon
I’m pretty sure there were a lot of discussions even on this page about undergarments for the dresses, adding snaps for bust purposes, wearing a camisole underneath (and trying to find one that didn’t add bumps)….
Anon
You speak for you.
Anon
Because secretaries usually wore $400 dresses? I’m sorry that they didn’t work for you, but wrap dresses are basically perfect for me (tall, lean, athletic, 32DD).
AnAnon
+1 same build, except smaller chested. I still wear them now FWIW. Not a secretary.
Anon
1. Rude
2. I feel like that Tuckernuck dress reads as less professional than the DVF wrap dress in its day. It’s very short.
Both are kind of over the top looks, though I did have some DVF wrap dresses, and as the other commenters noted, it didn’t really work for my body shape, but I was desperate to make them work.
Lexi
They make me look pregnant, lol
Anon
I wrote out a to do list yesterday before heading out of the office. Looking at it this morning and nothing on this list is something I want to tackle on a Friday. Recently I’ve been getting to Friday’s and I feel like my brain can’t take on anything more serious than basic data entry. Pushing too hard the rest of the week? Just being a lazy bones and going into the weekend to soon?
Permission to pick the lowest of the low hanging fruit and make this to do list a Monday problem??
Anon
That’s me every Friday. And you know what, it’s always fine.
Anon
I save administrative and clerical tasks for Fridays precisely for this reason.
NY CPA
The whole week was nonstop but today is finally quiet and I have a mountain of stuff to get through but zero motivation to do any of it. So I’m right there with you. My brain is burnt out.
anon
Permission granted. Seeking same.
I’m going to spend today catching up on administrative items and grab a nice lunch.
Anon
I posted yesterday about needing a very large, but still ergonomic chair to fit both me and my needy Maine Coon cat. I looked for hours yesterday and I think I’ve found the one! I’m going to order and will report back. The seat is 25” wide (whereas most seats are only up to 20” wide and my lap when seated is 17”) and has upholstery under the armrests that will keep him “contained.”
https://www.amazon.com/500lbs-Heavy-Executive-Ergonomic-Adjustable-Headrest-Black/dp/B0CZ9GF2NM?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1#aw-udpv3-customer-reviews_feature_div
Anonymous
I just love this
Anon
Me too!
Anon
Please be sure to leave a review on Amazon from your cat’s POV! After all, you bought the chair for him.
anon
And post it here. We are all invested in cat office chair.
Senior Attorney
+1
Anon
My ideal investment allocation at my age is 60% stocks and 40% bonds, but it is currently 50% stocks, 40% bonds, and 10% cat chair ideas.
Anon
I don’t know your size, but as someone who needs to search out desk chairs for smaller, narrower people (Aeron size A, Steelcase Leap with the arms that adjust in), I would be afraid of ordering a chair sold as “big and tall.” I hope it works, though, and lots of cat and dog owners on this site would appreciate your thoughts once you have tried it.
Jo March
I have somehow gotten it into my head that I want an Ember mug (keeps my tea/coffee hot for hours… I’m one of those people who ends up microwaving a hot drink twice because I sip it slowly throughout the morning). The $179 price tag is absurd….. so does anyone here have recommendations for a more affordable knock-off?
Anon
A cheap candle warmer from Walmart will do the job.
Anonymous
Sorry, I am here to tell you the Ember mug is amazing. I bought mine during the pandemic and it has changed my life for the better. If you consider the cost per use, I’ve definitely got my moneys worth.
Anonymous
I hate my ember mug. I got the white one and all white work through and it’s hard to clean. It fun with the app and all but just get a cup warmer.
Anon
Have you considered getting a mug warmer? They’re basically a heated saucer that you plug into an outlet–so this wouldn’t work if your mug is mobile, but if you’re at a desk, they’ll keep your drink at a nice temperature. They’re usually in the $15-$20 range–I often get them as Christmas gifts for people.
Anon
I have one of these at my desk some random brand from Amazon & it’s fine, but I don’t have the problem OP has anyway. I usually finish my tea by the time it’s lukewarm and I don’t need to zap it. My sister gave me the Amazon one for Christmas, which was very nice of her. I also have a thing about wanting my tea cup to be pretty.
Anon
This is the one I have. It does work but it doesn’t have an auto off feature, so I have come into my home office in the morning and still found the warming plate on from yesterday, which I feel really bad about.
Also, you have to use the specific cup that it comes with because it has a flat bottom made of metal that conducts the heat, otherwise the warming base wouldn’t work on a regular ceramic mug. It would just make your mug hot.
https://a.co/d/4Bcept5
Even though I complained about some features of it, it actually does work, you can choose the temperature that’s right for you so it made my latte, for instance, stay warm, but not too hot.
Anon
I have a mug warmer but I feel like it makes coffee with cream do something weird, like separate? Or form a skin? Is it me?
Anon
I’m 11:48 and I didn’t experience that, but it could be the temperature of your mug warmer is too high.
Anonymous
It’s not you. It’s the mug warmer. This is why insulated mugs are better than heated ones.
Anonymous
The Ohom mug is popular and much less expensive.
An.On.
Emily Henderson did a cost/compare of three self-heating mugs back on 2/3/23 on her blog
Anon
I’ve considered getting one, but in the meantime I’m using stainless steel mugs with a cover (Simple Modern, Yeti). They keep my coffee warm and drinkable for hours (and I definitely like my coffee hot; once it approaches room temp I can’t drink it anymore)
anon
This, I just use my Yeti mug with good success.
Why do drink holders seem to be perennial trends? Do you remember Tervis? And before that Bubba Kegs?
anon
My Yeti is amazing for coffee. Keeps it hot for a VERY long time.
Anonymous
If it’s just to keep your hot drink hot, a plain old Thermos (or knock-off) will do. You don’t have to drink out of it, you can keep your drink warm in it and pour out in smaller amounts into your drinking mug.
Anon
This is the way.
Jo March
Thank you for the suggestions! I really cannot justify the price of Ember, so I’m going to try these! The thermos idea seems very smart and more in line with my usually frugal habits. I know I have a good thermos somewhere…
DB Cooper
If you want a real Ember, they sometimes show up at a decent discount on woot.com (not a scam site, actually owned by Amazon now, I think).
Italy question
My sister is getting married by Lake Como in early October 2025. We’d like to do a 2-3 week trip with the wedding since we are coming from the US. Our kids will be 6 and 8. We’re planning on 15-17 or so nights, with 5 nights for wedding and 10-12 nights for 1 or 2 other destinations. Where should we look at for decent weather that we can go by train? The swiss alps seem wonderful, but I know October is low season and I dont want the weather to be neither warm nor cold and just rainy and gross. Our kids love outdoorsy things and the attention span for art museums etc. will be low. TIA!
Anon
Early October is still probably nice enough weather for beach regions like the Italian Riviera or Cinque Terre. I don’t think you can count on swimming in the ocean that time of year (unless you have a high tolerance for cold water) but it should be very pleasant for hiking and other outdoor activities. Tuscany is also great. You could do a couple days in Florence and then spend time in the countryside where there are things like bikes and farm animals to entertain the kids.
Also check that your school is ok with the kids missing this much time — more than 2 weeks off consecutively during the school year would get you in pretty big trouble with many school districts.
OP
our kids have a full week of fall break so they’re not missing more than 5 school days. thanks.
do you have any specific spots to stay with kids in Tuscany or cirque Terre? thank you!
Anon
Not in Cinque Terre, we went there pre-kids, but in Tuscany we loved the agriturismo Al Gelso Bianco. They have lots of kid-friendly activities like pasta-making classes, a playground, farm animals, truffle hunting and a swimming pool although I’m not sure about access to that in October (we went in June). The owners are just the loveliest people. I’ve never met a person in Italy who didn’t dote on my kids, but they were truly above and beyond to make sure the children were having the best time. https://algelsobianco.it/en/al-gelso-bianco-country-resort-in-tuscany/
It’s near San Gimignano, which is a cool medieval walled city that your kids will love exploring.
OP
this is perfect!! exactly what I was looking for. my husband and I have been to Tuscany pre kids but so looking forward to going again.
Anon
We’ve taken our kids abroad a lot and I think Tuscany is our favorite family vacation ever. It really is magic, and a great place for families. Enjoy!
Anon
I have absolutely no advice, but what a magical trip this will be for you and your kids — have fun!
Anon
Check on any fall whitewater rafting opportunities in the area – this is regionally dependent and not everywhere runs fall trips, but it would be great fun for an outdoorsy family.
Cerulean
Totally different direction, but Munich is really fun and the train ride from Munich to Milan is through the Austrian alps and just gorgeous.
OP
thank you! any recommendations on things to do in munich for kids or places to stay?
Cerulean
I went pre-kid, but the Englisher garden, the glockenspiel at Marienplatz, the big food market… there’s a zoo that’s supposed to be nice, too. Neuschwanstein castle is an easy day trip.
Senior Attorney
We love the Munchen Palace Hotel and there is a great restaurant right across the street: Restaurant Käfer-Schänke. We found a great American-born tour guide on Tours By Locals and did a walking tour with him and it was great. The English Garden (their version of Central Park) is great for picnicking and running around, and they have an artificial surfing wave that is super fun to watch or even try if your kids are surfers. And depending on their ages, kids might like a day trip to Neuschwanstein Castle (the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang castle).
Anon.
Venice is not too far and would make an interesting experience for a kid, too. My 8-yr old kid is artsy so we spent some time sitting on the big square sketching the scenery.
I’d consider Florence or Rome if you can spare a day of travel. Our kid is 8 and we climbed all the duomos and campaniles, lol. There are several Leonardo da Vinci museums in cities all over Italy, we liked the one in Florence and Rome as they are interactive.
In Rome, we went to a 2 hour gladiator training on the outskirts of the city which we all loved – check Viator or you can book directly at https://www.romegladiatorschool.com/gladiator-school. The aqueduct ruins are somewhat reachable from there and make for a nice afternoon walk/outdoor time.
Alternatively, Switzerland is not too far with tons of outdoor activities.
Seafinch
We did an overnight train from Como to Berlin that we loved. Berlin is a great city to visit with kids. I think Rome would also be ideal in October. Luzern and the entire area is absolutely stunning, loads of good options for outdoor activities. With kids I would definitely consider Neuschwanstein since it’s such a recognizable, classic castle. I personally, find Munich very boring and always have even as a uni student. I am also planning a two week trip in October 2025 for my brother’s wedding in Paris with five kids.
anon
Has anyone moved to take care of aging parent and then completely regretted it? My parents are in their 80s and their age is really starting to show. My dad has stage 2 and Parkinson’s. My mom is finding it harder to keep up with home maintenance and administrative tasks. Right now it takes $5000 per trip to truck my family across the country, flights, car rental, to get over there twice a year. It’s just to visit but we probably need to be within 3 hr drive soon. We are considering moving and just being with my parents to provide more care. I am an only child, so it’s not like there are other siblings. Obviously this is a huge decision, and would require my husband to change jobs so he would need to be totally on board of course. Kids are elementary age and not settled with friend groups yet.
Brontosaurus
Possibly dumb question – would your parents be willing to move to you? If they own their home, I’m picturing they sell and then the proceeds can either fund the purchase of a home or pay rent for something in your area.
Anon
I wouldn’t do this unless you are interested in making a life in their location after they die. Talk to them about moving to assisted living (or independent living with step-up options) closer to you. It is too much, WAY too much, for one daughter to take this on independently. Obviously it happens all the time, but I’m a huge opponent of our “rely on free women’s labor” approach to elder care. It leads to stepping back from the workforce, depression, and burnout. If your parents move to a nice assisted living community, they can get the help you need, your load will be much more manageable, and you can actually enjoy the time with them. If this is something they are unwilling to do, then they need to consider what kind of help they are going to hire locally. Their plan cannot be “expect daughter to sacrifice everything.”
Anon
It’s not out of bounds that their plan is to depend on their child–that’s the purpose of a family structure, to rely on one another. It sounds like the daughter is thinking through many options. If her parents are willing to move in with her or an assisted living facility near her, that would solve some problems.
Anon
I don’t think older parents should “depend” on their adult children. That’s the whole reason we aggressively save for retirement. Maybe you’ll need some help coordinating but adult children should not be someone’s retirement plan. They shouldn’t have to sacrifice their career and move. That is not the reason people have kids!
Anonymous
+1 million
Anonymous
No, it really is out of bounds for parents to expect financial support or extensive caregiving from their adult children. On the contrary–it is the parents’ responsibility to plan and prepare for their own aging. The most aging parents should expect from their adult children is that if they become incompetent the children will step in to handle finances and decision-making in accordance with the parents’ best interests, because there’s no way around needing a legal decision-maker.
Anon
+1
Anon
+1.
Anon
Don’t be silly. Like it or not we have an obligation to our parents, especially as they age. We don’t get to opt out because it’s trendy to not care for others.
Anon
We have an obligation to be there emotionally and physically as much as we’re able, but we really do not have an obligation to move across the country or provide for them financially because they made poor decisions.
Anonymous
+1. Generally speaking, I think obligations flow down the family tree not up.
anon
Harsh, but I tend to agree.
Anon
This is extremely culturally dependent, and while I think your take may be prevalent in a certain strand of American culture (that OP may well be a part of!), it is certainly not a universal truth. Different families come with different expectations, and that’s OK.
Anon
In a lot of the cultures where adult children are expected to be caregivers, the seniors move to their adult children though. Because you are normally expected to care for both your mother and MIL, and if they live in different cities, moving to care for one of them would require choosing between them. It’s better if they move to you and then you can help with both of them.
Anon
But it could make the daughter and her entire family miserable.
Anon
A lot of things could make people miserable. I’m just saying that this commenter is presenting her opinion as a universal truth, and at least in my culture, abiding by this opinion is what would make me miserable.
Anon
Um, I think it’s you acting as though another commenter’s post was presented as a universal truth. All you, in fact.
Anon
Cool, sounds like we read it differently! I find it very funny you’re assuming your reading is the correct one in this context (“all you”).
Anon
It doesn’t matter what the parents “expect” if it’s not sensible or aligned with reality. Expecting the husband to give up his job is too much – unless there is more to OP’s story and he could very easily transfer to a regional office or similar.
Anon
You’re right! I am not describing the expectations parents put on their children. I am saying that I love how my culture defines family, and that definition is incompatible with some of the choices other people are suggesting. I don’t think their definition of family is less valid than mine, so it’s as frustrating to have mine be treated as less valid than theirs, if that makes sense.
Anonymous
I would never in a million years uproot myself and my family just to care for aging parents. I would try to persuade them to move to a continuing care community where most of these tasks would be handled for them. You might try to convince them to relocate near you. If they are at the point where they can no longer maintain their home they probably aren’t getting out or having much social contact either, so it’s not as if you are asking them to give up their social supports to be near you.
Anon
“Just” to care. That speaks volumes and the OP might have a different type of relationship with her family than you have with yours.
Anonymous
“Just to care” means “for the sole purpose of.” It does not imply a value judgment.
Anon
Agree. The response was overly harsh. Adult “children” are allowed to have their own adult lives: social circles, professional contacts, homes, career trajectories, kids, good school systems for their kids.
I absolutely HATE how we often assume that adult children are somehow still children who haven’t created roots or their own independent lives.
Anon
ha, yes, agreed! I also would not move “just”, as in solely, to care for my aging parents, as my husband and I could not support ourselves or our children where my parents currently live, so we’d end up financially dependent on them, which obviously doesn’t help anyone as they need that money for their own care. We have a great relationship with my parents, and I will be responsible for caring for them as they age – but educating my children, supporting my family, planning for our own retirement are all factors in the conversation. I don’t have the luxury of making a decision for a single reason, as I have lots of competing needs in my family. No one is independently wealthy, and I have two young kids.
So, no, in my situation I would not/could not move just to care for them as it would negatively impact literally every other factor in my life, but planning long term options for their care as they age is a big part of the calculus that we are actively discussing with them. For us, that means me traveling alone more to help them as they age, so not having the longer, more expensive trips, and for them, that means looking at more robust aging in place spots earlier than they’d like. It also means we’ve had very honest conversations that at some point, they likely will be moving to be near my family, and while not ideal for them to do it much older, that’s just the path we are on.
Hypothetically, yes, I would consider moving if (1) my husband or I could support our family in or close to their area, and (2) it would be a net positive for my kids (i.e., cost of living is lower, or it had access to more family that I want my children around regularly, but those factors (1) and (2) don’t exist for us — one kid would do just fine in the very rural, very large public high school I attended, and one LGBTQ+ kid would be miserable and likely unsafe, and that ultimately is a dealbreaker for us).
Anon
Agree. OP please keep in mind that a healthy percentage of people who post here actually hate their parents.
Anon
This is absurd. OP, please don’t be swayed into uprooting your entire life when other great options may be available because one rando here thinks it means you “hate your parents” if you don’t.
Anon
Hot take: maybe if the parents are unwilling to move, it’s because they hate the OP and don’t care if she immiserates herself trying to make her parents more comfortable in their old age.
anon
OP here. Thanks for this and yes completely agree that is a huge factor that I didn’t mention, and that people’s own experience with is going to affect their input on the topic. My parents are easy to get along with and like to be involved in their grandkids lives. We currently live close to my husband’s parents who are 10 years younger than my parents and in reasonable health. His parents are pretty rough around the edges and hard to help, and not so helpful to us, but do come to the kids things now and again, but his brothers family stayed local to be around when needed.
Anon
This is absurd. I’m an only child who’s super close to my parents. They moved to my city and are extremely involved with my family, usually coming over for dinner several nights per week and spending a large chunk of each weekend with us. It’s great. I do some caregiving already (driving them to medical appointments, picking up groceries for them when they’re tired or under the weather), and am sure I will do more as they age and am happy to do it. I still don’t think I would have uprooted myself to care for them, certainly not at the point at which we were settled in our careers and had kids in school. Job opportunities in my hometown are limited and it doesn’t make sense for adults to move somewhere where their career options are limited. It doesn’t mean you hate your parents.
Anon
Oh the drama.
No, we don’t hate our parents. Who peed in your cheerios this morning?
Anon
Can they move to you? I’m also an only child and that’s what my parents did. I don’t think it’s really fair to uproot your husband and kids. Also what about his parents? It seems fairer to have the parents move to you, which doesn’t favor either set.
Anon
I don’t think you will regret you or your children spending more time with your dying parents unless there are relationship or financial factors you have not mentioned here.
Anon
Hit submit too soon. Final sentence should have been: They can come to you or you can come to them, but I would not put them in assisted care across the country; that is the worst of all options.
Anonymous
It’s their choice, though. If I were the daughter here’s how I’d present it:
I am not able to move, and I am not able to provide any hands-on care or to help with home maintenance. If you move to assisted living in your current location, I can visit for a long weekend once a year to help out with administrative stuff. I may not be able to get there immediately in a crisis. If you move to assisted living within an hour’s drive of my home, I can visit for the day about once a month as my family’s weekend schedule permits and will be more available in a crisis situation. You will also be able to come to some of your grandchildren’s events if you move to be near our family. I don’t have the ability to support you if you stay in your own home or if you live near me in a situation other than assisted living/continuing care.
Anon
I agree it’s their choice, but I wouldn’t present it to them in this harsh, contract-y language. I’d say:
“Mom and Dad, I think it’s time to discuss your living plans moving forward. You’ve mentioned that it’s harder to keep on top of the home maintenance and Dad’s medical needs may continue to get worse. It worries me to be so far from you since I can’t get there quickly in a crisis and it’s not in our budget to fly out more often – plus, we’re just too far away for the daily maintenance tasks you’ll need more help with as the years go on, and with our jobs and kid obligations, we simply don’t have the capacity to handle it all from here. I’d like to discuss the idea of you two moving to a senior community closer to us – you’d get to visit with the grandkids a lot more, for one, but it would also make it so much easier for all of us to help each other out. If that’s not something you’re interested in doing, what are your plans for getting more help locally? I could help find an elder social worker or case manager if you’d like.”
Anon
Anon at 1:32, that is a lovely and loving script.
Anon
But it sounds like OP *is* open to moving, so I think the conversation can be much softer and more dynamic than the one you’re presenting.
I do agree that ultimately, everyone involved may decide that the best option actually is a care center where they currently live—but all things being equal, having your kids see your aging parents more frequently is a wonderful thing to offer (again, sounds like OP has wonderful parents, this is obviously not universally true!).
Anonymous
OP may be open to moving but that is an awful lot to ask of her husband. She seems to be thinking more of her parents’ needs and her own wishes than the needs of her family. Once you get married, your primary obligation is to your spouse. When you and that spouse have kids, your primary obligation is to your nuclear family.
Anon
“OP may be open to moving but that is an awful lot to ask of her husband. ”
I agree. I had to move for my husband’s academic career, and I don’t regret it but it has also not been easy. And that was a situation where there was no option for him to pursue his chosen career path without us moving, which is why I moved. I would absolutely not move to care for his parents (or mine!). They can move to our city if they want our help. Mine moved, his probably won’t but they know it’s an option if their needs become more severe and they want family nearby.
Anon
So you should ask your parents to uproot *their* life and move near you, while spending all their money on assisted living, and you’ll visit them for an afternoon once a month?! I think you are in the group that doesn’t really care about their parents! I’d expect and want at least once a week in that situation. They likely won’t live much longer and time together is precious.
Anon
I don’t “expect” my parents to move. I think it would be nice if they want to do that, and it will enable me to provide a higher level of caregiving assistance. I think either side feeling entitled to the other side moving is wrong, but it’s not unfair for adult children to express to their parents that they will be able to provide more caregiving help if the parents choose to move close to them. That’s just reality! And generally it’s easier for older people to move because they don’t have jobs or kids in school. It’s not the same level of “uprooting” as moving mid-career with kids who are very settled into their community. I really could not move back to my hometown even if I desperately wanted to, because job opportunities there are so limited.
Anonymous
A once-a-week visit expectation is just not reasonable for a family where both parents have jobs and the kids have activities. I almost never have a weekend day without at least a half-day commitment, and I have evening commitments three or four weekdays. Plus that I travel a week out of every month for work. If I were a SAHM who could pop over to the retirement home while the kids were in school it would be different, but I’m not.
Anon
I think a lot of these responses are projecting what is possible or normal for your family onto what is possible for OP, and I just don’t think we have sufficient information to determine that.
Anon
Agree with the suggestions to move your parents to you rather than the other way around, unless your family truly prefers to be in the other location long-term.
Anon
I moved (and so far don’t regret it). Spouse and I both work remotely, no kids. My parents live in a bigger (but cheaper) city than where we lived, with much better healthcare, and my sibling and their family are here, so it would have made no sense to have them move to us. Not providing much care for them yet, but it was definitely a factor in our move. There’s obviously the chance of our jobs changing and remote work no longer being possible, but being in a bigger city with lower COL seems to mitigate that risk (early retirement is very much on the table), and having more friends and family around is better for us too. For you, I think a big question would be how much you like your current city vs. where your parents live and whether you still know a lot of people there.
Anon
I didnt move to be near my mom as she aged – she stayed in her rural community & there would have been no work for me there, which, as the breadwinner I couldn’t opt to do.
What I did do was not move away from being a 3 hour drive from her. There were so many opportunities for my career in other areas of the US that I turned down, because I wanted to be able to get to my Mom when she needed me. 3 hours is not close, and there were times the ambulance had to come because there was no one closer. But I’m glad my kids got to have a relationship with their only grandparent who survived into their middle school and high school years.
I have no regrets. I’m at the end of my career now, on my retirement glide path, and it’s funny that what “they” have been saying all along is true. When you’re older you won’t remember the meetings you attended. You’ll remember the times you spent with loved ones.
Anon
What are the school systems like there? What is it like culturally? How are the salaries in relation to your city? What are housing costs like? Are you in a walkable area that simply doesn’t exist in this other place? What is the climate like? What are the state universities like (assuming you, like most Americans, want to send your kid to college and want an affordable backup).
Anon
Yeah, this is one of those posts where crucial context was never mentioned so the replies are going to be wildly varying.
Anon
It seems short sighted to only consider the social aspect for the kids. Quality of school systems matters so much and varies so much, as does cost and availability of in-state higher ed. Then the parents would be settled there and maybe the kids would want to build their careers elsewhere, and this dilemma starts all over again in 30-40 years when OP and her husband need long term care.
Anonymous
My husband’s sister and her spouse took on local caregiving responsibilities for his mom who refused to move to assisted living. It took a huge toll on both of them and their kids, and their mom’s living situation was really terrible for her as well. When they finally moved her to memory care, against her previously expressed wishes to remain in her own home no matter what, quality of life for the mom and for the daughter and her family improved exponentially. At some point it becomes incredibly selfish and counterproductive for elders to insist on aging in place.
If I had been the spouse in the scenario above I don’t think the marriage would have survived.
In contrast, this same SIL’s spouse’s parents live over a thousand miles away but wisely moved into a continuing care facility when that level of care became necessary. They and their adult child are much happier with this arrangement than anyone ever was with MIL in her own home, and their adult child is able to manage their care effectively from afar and to enjoy quality time during visits without spending the whole time on home maintenance etc.
Anon
Agree with this. It’s one thing to pine for the days when families lived in small villages and women stayed home and dedicated their lives to caregiving. It’s another to reconcile that with the demands of modern living and employment. We provide long-distance care to a relative with dementia and all of our lives improved DRAMATICALLY when we realized and admitted that aging in place was no longer working. We can actually enjoy spending time with her now (while still providing a lot of substantial help) because we’re no longer spending so much valuable time and energy addressing emergent safety risks. She’s so much happier too.
anon
My cousins went through this with their mom, who has dementia. Life got so, so much better for my great-aunt and cousins once she moved into a memory care place. It eased the worry so much for my cousins, and my great-aunt is actually happier with other people around (other than family members). The only reason why aging in place worked as long as it did was because one of my cousins was married but did not have children. The other sister does have kids and just wasn’t as available, which also caused a strain on the sisters’ relationship at times.
Anon
Regardless of whether they move to you, you move to them, or neither, I think you’re going to want to look into assisted living soon for your father. Trying to have parents with serious health conditions age in place is a recipe for disaster in more ways than one.
Anonymous
This. Even if they resist assisted living, they will actually be happier once they get there. A good assisted living facility will have them much less isolated than they were at home.
Anon
+1. I’ve heard literally countless stories of parents finally moving to assisted living, enthusiastically or not, and then quickly realizing how much better it is and how much stress they were under before. Everyone should carefully consider it.
Anon
Everyone I know who’s moved a parent or grandparent into assisted living wishes they’d done it earlier.
Anon
I guess I will be the exception, or my mom would be, if she were here. I’m the one with the rurally located mom above at 12:53. She ended up in assisted living for the last few months of her life and she did not love it. It was a lot of seniors parked in wheelchairs in front of the TV, and someone doing your laundry and mixing it up with other people’s stuff, so then you had underwear you didn’t recognize in your dresser. She found it invasive and depressing. “Assisted Living” means a lot of different things, and sometimes the pickings are slim, considering both location and affordability.
Anon
Anon at 3:35, agreed — had one grandparent move into Alzheimer’s assisted living, and it was the right choice for the entire family. Had another move into assisted living just because she was having trouble going up and down the stairs at 94, and she hated it and got progressively angrier until she died. So dependent on the facility, the needs, etc.
Senior Attorney
As with anything else, you get what you pay for. I looked at a lot of places for my parents, and some were surprisingly pleasant and some were as Anon at 3:35 describes. It helps if you know somebody who’s been through it, so you know what questions to ask.
Anon
Wow, it’s amazing your parents are both in their 80s and still so independent. This isn’t the norm, although some on this board are fortunate to have such a situation.
I was the caregiver for my parents, who had serious medical problems in their 60s. I was the single daughter, and I moved to their city to help. Their need was much greater than your situation, and I instantly knew it was the right thing to do for me/my family. No regrets.
I would recommend sitting down now with your parents, and talk about how they would like to live out this stage of life, and what assistance you are willing to offer. If you have siblings, talk with them first and get on the table what each is willing to do. Then talk with your parents, and review what options they have financially. This is the time to look at downsizing to wheelchair accessibly apartment buildings or assisted living (which can be very expensive and varies wildly in quality). And really having an honest, open conversation with your parents. Hopefully they will be open to this.
In addition, it sounds like time for them to have a good accountant, lawyer, and visiting caregiver to help with cleaning/laundry/household errands, as well as a handyman on call, and honestly…. helpful neighbors who can help in an emergency (or even one you can pay in such a circumstance). And perhaps you/sibling need to start overseeing finances, which can be done from afar. Parkinson’s can vary dramatically from person to person, but keeping him active in Physical and Occupational therapy every year will help. And often those therapists – together with his neurologist – can push the family when a safer home situation is needed.
But I would NOT move my family cross country to live 3 hours away from your parents. You either move them within a reasonable driving distance for regular visits near you, or you move to a short driving distance with them. It just isn’t practical to be driving 6 hours + time with parents….. regularly …. to be helping them. It will destroy your sanity and family. You might as well live across the country. The one exception might be if they move into assisted living, so you visiting once or twice a month to help (from 3 hours away) would be less stressful.
Anon
It can be helpful for you to meet with a good Elder Care attorney when you are there if their documents/POA etc.. are not up to date, and for recommendations on local resources, and the best assisted living situation that they can afford. If they are lower income, there can be some surprisingly nice senior housing set ups that are quite affordable, but with less services and long waiting lists.
Anonymous
I stayed at home to care which had a significant impact on my life but I don’t regret it. It’s just a choice I made. You never get the time back so know that. Sure it cost me in earnings and personally but it’s not the end of the world.
Anon
My spouse and I both currently work remotely (both in law). He has been offered a position at a boutique firm. This would mean a significant raise, and he’s getting bored at his current role. The firm is a good fit in many ways, but there is an expectation of being in the office five days a week. They otherwise seem very flexible, big on work/life balance. We have a friend there, so no reason to doubt that. To me though, the in-person requirement is outside the norm for law firms these days, and it’s almost a red flag. He doesn’t need to be remote, but he needs flexibility to make our life work. Am I right to be concerned? I want to be supportive, but I have a job that requires travel.
Anonymous
Do you have kids? Pets? Livestock? Why is flexibility important? If one or both of you is making $$$$, then you should be able to pay for hired help while you’re traveling.
Anon
We need flexibility because have two young kids and I’m on the road 2-6 days a month. It’s not enough money to compensate for a lack of flexibility without eating up most of the increase in pay. I love my job very much.
anon for this
I’m not in law but law-adjacent and the hybrid/remote culture has shifted dramatically in firms over the last year. The in-office requirements I’m aware of across multiple firms is now at least 4 days a week. Since you know someone there, figure out if it’s a soft requirement (like it’s okay if you have to work a half-day at home from time to time) or if it a firm expectation that you are there all day every day. The latter is much harder and would probably require a nanny or au pair to help out on your travel days.
If the money is significant and it’s otherwise a good move for him, I’d look for ways to make it work. Your kids won’t need the same level of care indefinitely and who knows, maybe the requirements loosen in a few years anyway when the pendulum swings back.
Anon
Sounds like he doesn’t love his job, though. Maybe some compromise is in order.
Anon
As I said, I want to be supportive. I am worried about the impact on our family. I’m definitely open to compromise, but I’m trying to think about what the future is going to look like. This offer basically fell in his lap. He hasn’t even been actively looking. His current job pays well and is pretty great. He’s just bored, which I totally get. I don’t think he should stay in a job he’s ready to move on from, I’m just not sure if it is reasonable for me to push for him to consider other options.
Anonymous
I have been job searching a pretty much every firm has wanted in-office most days. The one exception was a 1000-lawyer firm, and frankly I was asking for an office anyway because I would want to get to know people and have office resources. I don’t think it’s a red flag, though it may not work for you for whatever reason.
Anonymous
My experience is the same; most places want in office at least 3 days a week. Even offices where zero clients go to the office to see the attorneys. I find it infuriating but I prefer being remote.
Anon
Thanks! Super helpful!
anon
I don’t think it’s abnormal to have full in person especially for certain types of law. For example, I know some personal injury and litigation boutiques that are 100% in person and they wouldn’t have it any other way. It’s part of their micro culture, to kind of have a war room setup and do things in person. Did your contact confirm that they really mean 100% in person, or that they are flexible?
Anon
Thanks!
Anon
I don’t think it’s a red flag but it seems like it may not work for your lifestyle.
Anon
Yeah. I really do want to be supportive, so I’m trying to be open to how we can make it work. We have such a great situation now, but I also understand being ready for a new challenge.
Anon
LOL that in-person is a red flag.
Anon
I thought the same! All I am seeing these days is in-person jobs!
Anon
5 days per week in office is a red flag in my industry. Agree that fully remote jobs are basically gone but most jobs only people want someone in the office 1-2 days per week, 3 days at most. I’m not in law though.
Anon
That was a red enough flag with one opportunity for me that I declined further discussions.
Anonny
Is this a regional issue? I have one lawyer friend in Texas and the office requires in person 4 or 5 days per week. Another lawyer friend in Texas is either 3 or 4 days per week in office. I have another lawyer friend in Florida who is completely work from home. Unfortunately, those are all the data points I have.
Because you need flexibility and said the firm is into work/life balance, is it possible that being in the office every day but only between say 9-3 is sufficient and also would allow your DH to manage the children duties? If there is a compromise position like this, then I think that’s worth exploring.
Anonymous
How experienced is your spouse? Our firm expects inexperienced attorneys to be here pretty much every day to stop by and ask questions, let us check in on them, help them develop, etc. More experienced attorneys have more freedom to not be here.
Anon
Senior associate. Working directly as right hand to the partner bringing him him.
Anon
I’d ask your friend candidly about the flexibility. I work at a mid-size firm that is technically 100% in person. But I wfh 1-2 days each week at least and come and go as I please. No one cares. People are in and out so much with depos, hearings, other random stuff anyway. I do make myself available for in-person meetings when necessary, and I do go in usually three days per week for at least some period of time to check in with my team, but it works for me and I never feel like I have to be there every day all day. I’m a non-equity partner right now with a niche practice, though, so ymmv depending on the specific firm and your level/who you work for.
Anon
Thanks!
smurf
do you need the flexibility because of your travel? in that case, I don’t think it’s fair to say he shouldn’t take it so you can keep the job you love but he can’t. (or – maybe the spending his raise on that addtl support makes sense so you’re both happy)
if the flexibility is more day to day, I think def worth finding out is it – every time you’re working you need to be in the office so all drop offs & pick ups fall on you? Or – general expectation is in the office but he can leave early, do pick up, WFH in evening as needed?
Anon
My husband and I figured out early on that at least one of us had to have a flexible job once we had two kids.
Definitely worth OP and her husband having a serious discussion about it. It needs to come from the “we both have obligations to our kids” perspective and not “mothers need to figure this stuff out.”
Anon
Thanks. I guess that’s where I’m at. This would be a very different conversation if he hated his current job or this was a “dream” job. We’re a team, and I’m going to support him. I just have worked really hard to get where I am/have the job I have and I really appreciate how equitable our parenting is (even though I travel, he would be the first to admit I didn’t at least 50%).
Anon
Hey OP, it sounds like you have a really healthy marriage. I think talking about these concerns and troubleshooting solutions with your husband would be a great idea. It may be that he’s able to negotiate flexibility for when you travel, or he may end up agreeing with you and seeing if he can find a different job that does offer that flexibility. Either way, you speak of him with a high degree of care and respect, and that’s lovely to see!
Anon
Thank you so much for saying this!