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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. I never thought I'd be recommending something described as having “padded cap sleeves,” but I kind of like the detail here. To me, it doesn't feel too militaristic or too '80s; it just seems like a cool little detail on this very basic, very simple, heather gray sheath dress. I also like that it comes in regular (0–16), tall (2–16), and petite sizes (00–14), has a hidden back zip, and is machine washable. It's $128 full price, but it's Banana Republic, so keep an eye out for the next sale. Padded Cap Sleeve Sheath Dress Two plus-size options are here and here. This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support! Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.Sales of note for 10.24.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – Friends of Ann Event, 30% off! Suits are included in the 30% off!
- Banana Republic Factory – 40-60% off everything, and redeem Stylecash!
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
- J.Crew – Friends & Family event, 30% off sitewide.
- J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Up to 30% off on new arrivals
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 40% off entire purchase, plus free shipping no minimum
- White House Black Market – Buy more, save more; buy 3+ get an extra 50% off
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Lillet
I’m confused. Where are the cap sleeves?
Pompom
Right? I’m seeing the padding, but no cap sleeve.
If Zenon, Girl of the 21st Century, ever needed a smart sheath for her litigation job defending Protazoa from all their intergalactic torts, this is the one. (I actually don’t hate this)
Mir
Just an FYI to everyone to likes this dress: BR is currently applying a 40% discount to this dress at checkout, so it’s actually $76.80.
Ellen
Wow! I love this sheathe dress! But the model looks VERY BONEY, kind of like Sigourney Weaver did in Workeing Girl! Remember when the guy told her to get her boney ass out of there? I still laugh when that line comes on. What a great movie, and what a great tuchus she and Melania Griffiths had!!!!!
Anonymous
Best. Reference. Ever. I <3 that movie so much.
anon
Agree, but I actually like the dress! Seems perfect for fall, except that my blazers would cover the pretty shoulder detail.
Pompom
I almost wonder if this would work well with a tissue turtleneck (black maybe?) to function more like a jumper than a sheath? Would allow that detail to show through.
anon
That could be really cute!
Anonymous
I love that it comes in tall lengths, and the tall length is actually 40+ inches long!!! So much excitement from this Amazonian, BR lately has been calling its work dresses “talls” at 37 inches long (which is several inches above my knees).
Stalker Friend
My bff from highschool/college was hyper competitive and often emulated me. This all came to a head when she decided to get the same hair cut, lose a bunch in of weight, and buy the same coat turning herself into a clone. During our friendship she had a german Sheppard and hated cats, she wouldn’t even sit on the couch next to mine she hated cats that much. Fast forward a few years and I find out she bought my cat’s sibling as her new pet. I got my pet via spca but because its a rare breed I suspect I know where my cat originally came from. I’m very freaked out she sought out this poor kitten just because of me. I know there isnt anything I can do. Am I crazy for finding this unsettling?
anon
Yep, you’re being crazy. “Poor kitten”? It just got adopted; its fine. I’m sure she lost weight for a hundred reasons that have nothing to do with you. Having the same hair cut and same coat does not make her a clone, or if it does, then everyone who has shoulder length hair and the j crew lady day coat (approx. 8,327 people) is my clone. I have tons of friends that own the same clothes/items as I do. It’s called going “hey friend! I got these great shoes at ___, I know you’ve been looking for something like that!” Or just realizing that the store made more than just the one coat. You’re being hateful for no reason, or perhaps you’re just trolling.
anon
I take it this is an ex-friend? That level of detail is … unsettling, for sure.
Stalker Friend
Yes, ex friends. I haven’t talked to her in over a year, through the grape vine I heard about her kitten. She’s been telling our mutual friends all about the kitten and how they’re the same breed etc.
Anonymous
If you have common friends, you can cut her out but you’re still in the ether. This has to be how celebrities are — I wear brand X and now everyone copies me.
MAYBE think outside of the box — you’re a total social influencer of 1 person (maybe you can get affiliate links for fancy cat sellers?) Can you be a cat brand ambassador?
C
I think cat brand ambassador might be my dream job! :)
Never too many shoes...
That is veering into Single White Female territory… I would completely cut her out of your life. And maybe get a totally new (and possibly hideous) haircut and see if she follows suit.
anon
Are you people serious?
OP, is this person showing up outside your house? Still attempting to speak with you or contact you? Representing to other people that you two are still connected?
I just don’t get this- my BFF from grad school and I have multiple pairs of the same pair of shoes. One of my other close friends and I have the same shirt from Target. My BFF from college and I have the same pair of unique sweatpants. I could go on. This is actually really common among people who are actually friends and not so wildly insecure/uptight/anxious/self-involved that they think everyone’s personal decisions are about them.
When healthy people find good things, they *share* them with other people.
Ex- my boss recommended that I get a dog from the breeder he got his dog from. My girlfriend insists I should get a dog from the same shelter she got hers form. Friends routinely pick up other activities or hobbies that their friends engage in. Oh god, I started going to my friend’s barre studio she likes, I’m trying to BE HER!
Also, not sure how old your cat is but it seems like if hers is a *kitten* then it’s not your cat’s *sibling.* It’s the same breed. Or, perhaps it’s a half sibling if it came from the same breeder and that’s the only breeder in the state.
Stalker Friend
I haven’t posted about my recent engagement, degree, new job, or second cat because I am afraid of what she’ll do. Especially the job because it’s a really big company she could theoretically get a job at too.
anon
Why are you afraid? So far all you’ve said is that she got a coat, a cat, and cut her hair. You asked if you were crazy; you are. Unless there’s something that you didn’t share in your post, you are wildly overreacting.
You think she’s gonna run out and get engaged? Get a new degree? Switch professions? Just because you did? Why? What am I missing here?
Anonymous
But your mutual friends know this stuff, so assume that she’ll find out if she doesn’t already know. If she hasn’t moved into your apt complex, she’s probably harmless. Think of all the stuff she doesn’t do.
Liquid Crystal
I’ll be a voice of dissent and say I understand. I have been through this experience and think you are doing the best thing which is to put some distance between the two of you. You are doing this by sharing less and less of your life and things you are excited about with your ex friend.
I would think it sounded a little over sensitive of you if I hadn’t been through this. It is totally nerve wracking when a so-called friend does things that make it feel like she is taking a particular combination of things that make you you. We aren’t talking about an outfit or a hobby or a set of dishes here. We’re talking about a particular combination of these things PLUS a feeling that she might not be well intentioned. Or maybe her intentions are fine but she just doesn’t know herself so she borrows too many of your characteristics.
From personal experience, it gets worse. Distance is the answer. If she truly was benign and good -intentioned, I think she’ll come back and be harmless, and you’ll be friends again. If she was being competitive or way too insecure or otherwise problematic, you’ll see her latch on to someone else’s identity soon enough.
Liquid Crystal
Also, I don’t see why so many are piling on you, OP. This scenario is the perfect time for everyone to advocate for “boundaries”, as is a frequent chorus here. A well-advised, chorus, I’d say.
Anonymous
+1
Stalker Friend
I haven’t even told friends these life milestones so she can’t get this information any way. I’ve been engaged 4 months and only my family know. I’ll strategically take the ring off for friends and I’m eloping so no wedding.
Anonymous
+1 anon at 9:49 a.m
What exactly are you afraid of? Nothing you have told us is threatening. Weird, maybe, but not threatening.
lawsuited
If she is trying to BE you, then all she would do when she found out about those things would be get engaged, get a degree, get a new job, get a second cat. Why would you care if she did any of those (totally, totally normal) things? I posit that, even if you don’t post about your life events, she might just have the audacity to get engaged or get a second cat anyway!
Green Hat
This is the kind of thing that’s really hard to judge without knowing the person. Yes, in my group of friends we all have the same pair of shoes, and many of us wear the same brand of jeans, and use the same cleaning service, because we trade recommendations and it worked out for us. But I’d feel differently if a friend were trying to copy my exact look/mannerisms/etc. Sure, you can think of rational explanations for all of the things OP mentioned, but if it’s coupled with a weird vibe, well, that’s veering into creepy territory. I would trust OP that she’s not imagining her ex-friend’s intentions.
January
+1 – if you have a gut instinct that something is very wrong here, I would trust that. That being said, I’m really sad for you that you feel that you have to hide your engagement for fear that she’ll find out.
Anonymous
consider it flattery
I know someone who is just the gold standard in terms of tastes, etc.
If Jane has a great dress and it is budget-friendly and easy to order, I would probably get the same one. I get that I can seem to be Jane 2.0 (but not as fab), but IMO if Jane has it, that probably means that it is worth having.
If Jane’s kids go to Country Day, then it’s probably a good school. And if Jane lives in Fancy Acres, then you know it’s a good neighborhood. BUT I don’t have to internet stalk Jane to know this (we aren’t BFFs, but I see her around) AND I draw the line at Jane’s husband (so watch your BF or GF, depending on which team you’re on).
Anonymous
I don’t think this counts as stalking. Does it sound like she is off a little bit? Yes, but I think you should tell people to stop telling you these types of details. You’re right, there isn’t anything you can do about it as there doesn’t seem to be an actual threat here, so why would you subject yourself to the anxiety that this knowledge is causing you? Tell your friends and family to stop giving you information and just let her live in her weird fantasy world where she idolizes you and wants to be like you.
FWIW, I broke up with an ex who ended up being a bit unstable and he promptly went out and adopted a cat that looks EXACTLY like my cat that lived with us. I chalked it up to him being a weirdo and I laughed about it because he is cray cray.
Anon
People can be nuts. My high school bff’s brother was always inappropriately interested in me in a very creepy way that bordered into some inappropriate touching. I was glad to move away and have him out of my life. Years later I learned he named his daughter my name and his son my brother’s name. My parents were flattered. I was soooooo creeped out. (My parents never knew the extent of his inappropriateness.)
Anonymous
People are nucking futs.
Your scenario is different to me than what the OP is talking about. Inappropriate (and I assume unwelcome and uninvited touching) oh H E L L NO. I’m sorry you had to deal with that.
Anonymous
This is messed up. Unless your names are family names to him or his wife, that is really creepy. I imagine that the wife has no idea or thinks it’s somehow charming.
Anonymous
This seems kind of Regina George-y. If you don’t like her, just stop thinking about her. Nothing in your post seems that weird, and certainly not threatening.
Anonymous
Y’all, if you feed ’em they keep coming back.
Anonattorney
+1
Anonymous
Yep. This was pretty blatant; I’m surprised so many folks fell for it.
Anonymous
I had a couple of frenemies in high school.
I went out of state to a liberal arts college. So did they. I went to law school. After a couple of years, they did, too. I clerked. They clerked. We all married guys named John. We all have exactly two children. The curly one straightens her hair now (my hair is naturally straight). One of them lost a lot of weight (and I have always been thin). They live in the leavy suburb that they know was special to me growing up and was my dream (now they are there, intruding on it). I speak at conferences. So do they. WE SHOP AT SHORT HILLS MALL. One even took up tennis (I was on the team in high school). The nerve of some people.
It’s all in how you spin it — these are normal things. If the lefty became a rightie, maybe that would be weird. I moved on to a not-close work friend’s street once and it was awesome not weird.
Bonnie
I think it’s creepy. Most stalking cases start with small things like this.
Anonymous
And lots of people that do small things like this and never end up stalking anyone.
OP – the human brain is really good at finding patterns, even where they don’t actually exist. You’ve found a small number of similarities between your lives. And you could probably find more if you really wanted to. But – there are probably LOTS of things that are different. And someone making similar choices to you isn’t stalking. Keep a weather-eye on it if you are concerned about escalation, but absent any threatening behavior, it doesn’t rise to the level of stalking IMO.
Anonymous
She could just be doing this to annoy you. And it’s working. So chose to ignore. If she were a bunny boiler, you’d probably know that by now.
Or go get a tattoo. You could decide to have some fun with this.
Senior Attorney
That was my thought. Years ago I heard the funniest story about somebody whose in-laws were copying everything they did. Person got a boat, IL’s got a boat. Person planted a rose garden, IL’s planted a rose garden. Person vacationed in Paris, so did IL’s. So Person did a little experiment and started talking about how they were all excited about buying a grandfather clock, even though they had no intention of doing it. Left all this literature laying around about expensive clocks, talked up the most expensive brands, and so on. Lo and behold, IL’s turned up with a huge and hideous grandfather clock in their foyer. Boom!
lawsuited
Yes. Why on earth would you assume that her getting a popular haircut (the same one as you) and a mass-produced coat (the same one as you) is actually her trying to BE you? It sounds like you are also assuming that your pets are siblings although you don’t actually know where your cat came from. They probably aren’t siblings, and your ex-friend probably just likes cats now.
In the tiny off-chance that all this is calculated and she is try to BE you, I would say that you are both paying far too much attention to each other, and the best thing you could do is focus your attention elsewhere rather than worrying about her pet or otherwise talking yourself into an unsettled frenzy.
Stalker Friend
It wasn’t a mass produced coat. It was slow fashion, only 100 or so made. She would have had to special order it. The cat tipped it over the edge because its a LIVING BEING that she likely doesn’t love and isn’t appropriately socializing and snuggling
Anonymous
Honestly, your concern about this seems way over the top. You don’t know any of this stuff about her.
Anonymous
+1 and this is veering into t r o l l territory now. You sound mildly obsessed with her life now. Let it go!
anon
“The cat tipped it over the edge because its a LIVING BEING that she likely doesn’t love and isn’t appropriately socializing and snuggling”
How do you know this if you don’t keep in touch and she’s an ex-friend? Look OP, it sounds like you hate your old “BFF” for some reason and are fixated on HER actions. Deal with that and just leave each other alone. It still sounds like all you can point to is a coat and a cat. Weird, sure, but not threatening. There’s a difference between stalking and copying. I say this as someone who had a friend who would literally track my whereabouts on campus to try to find me.
Anonymous
Okay, now I think you are a troll.
Anonymous
Okay, now I think you are a troll.
Anonymous
This doesn’t really matter.
IMO the cat probably hates her (but your cat is probably plotting against you right now, too).
ToS
Hey Stalker Friend, I believe you. Do what you can to detach with a sense of compassion. You cannot control what this person does, just do your best to quietly distance yourself and hope her interest, or modeling that is based on you, will pass as she matures. Get really, really into your own life. It’s flattery when others copy it. Someone tips favor into being a trend, so go you. Let go of her kitten issue. She will rise to the occasion, or not, and has other people in her life, including her community, to hold her accountable, or receive the kitten as a subsequent kitten caregiver. It doesn’t have your name on it, and just because her boundaries are wonky, doesn’t mean you have to compromise yours.
My aunt was the only person I knew who had a Bernese Mountain Dog 25 years ago. Loads of people with Retrievers, spaniels and German Shepherds. Now I know almost no one with a German Shepherd and see Bernese doggies often. It happens. My aunt likely did her homework – she’s a safety engineer and had two little, little kids at the time. Ideas bloom. Great ideas take root. Leave the other kitten for the hive, and be a big fan of your own.
It looks like you are being challenged on this post, and it’s not the spirit of this online community that I’m used to. I don’t think you are a troll or as “off” as your friend. Let her go & be all YOU.
Stalker Friend
Also because it’s a rare breed she likely drove 700 miles to get it.
Anonymous
You sound like you’re stalking her now. Stop it.
emeralds
Okay. As people have told you, this could be creepy stalkerish behavior; it could be totally normal. Either way, your feelings are your feelings. What are you going to do with and about them? That’s really the question.
You’re already setting and enforcing the boundaries that you feel you need to in order to feel safe, which is great; but outside of that, you sound like you’re investing a lot of mental space into this. Imagine what you could do with that energy if you continued enforcing your boundaries, but let everything else go. She’s going to do what she’s going to do, including driving 700 miles to get a cat if she so desires. There is nothing you can do about it. After setting the boundaries that feel appropriate to you, the only thing you have power over is your own reaction and how much of your mental territory you allow her to occupy.
Anonymous
slow clap
can you go talk to my sister pls? she is needs to come to jesus on “you can control what you do and not a thing about anyone else” a million times over
Anon
Yes, you’re crazy.
Anon
I don’t see why it’s so unsettling. If it’s been a few years; maybe she’s just gotten over hating cats or has particularly fond memories of your cat. I don’t think the same hair cut, coat, and cat over the span of a few years make someone a stalker.
Anon
Ugh. This was in response to Stalker Friend.
Anonymous
+1. Losing weight isn’t clone behavior. Same haircut? Kinda creepy if it involved dyeing her hair to match but if she just had the Rachel in the 1990s – not exactly a clone. Just block her on social media. Why are you still in contact if you think she’s cray cray?
Anonymous
Anyone have any luck with capsule wardrobe programs or ebooks? I am at a point with work and family where I’m having major decision fatigue. I just need an easy, manageable set of clothes that match and I can put on rotation. I work in a business casual professional environment. I’d like to avoid trips to the mall and spending all day shopping around, which I used to enjoy but I really just don’t have the energy.
Pompom
If a retailer could just offer adult, business-casual (non-suit) Garanimals, I’d buy them. Seriously.
No advice, really, aside from following for responses.
Anonymous
I think that is the idea of Eileen Fisher, but her style only works for a certain body type, office environment, and age (none of which I have).
lsw
I agree. I really love everything about Eileen Fisher, except how the clothes look. I do have two pairs of the crepe pants and one of the silk tanks, but the aesthetic just doesn’t work for me as much as I would like it to.
Anonymous
It looks good on their models, but I think it would be a Look of Menopausal Sadness on me.
Digby
I think I have to steal this expression from you – the “Look of Menopausal Sadness” is great!
PolyD
I’ve heard Eileen Fisher referred to as “Marin County therapist clothes.”
Garanimals
Love this! I look like a pilgrim in Eileen Fisher.
C
THIS. When I think about it, the way I curate my work clothes is actually pretty close to the Garanimals theory. Everything has to be simple, basic, and able to work with everything else. No tops that only look good with a single skirt or shoes that only match one dress. My goal is to be able to grab any random 2-4 pieces out of my closet (depending on dress or pants/skirt and top) and wear them as an outfit.
Garanimals
+1. I want to look nice and like I have some semblance of style, but I just don’t have the mental energy to devote to shopping around. In this stage of life, I’m not enjoying the hunt much. And I would be ALL OVER the Garanimals.
Here’s what works for me:
– I keep a running list of workhorse items. Like the Express Portofino shirt, or the Ann Taylor Perfect Shirt. When I need a refresh, I try to buy those same items (just in a different color) because I know they’ll work. I order those workhorse items online. This is especially true for pants, which are much harder to fit.
– I’ve made myself a personal rule that for every colorful item I buy, I need to have at least two coordinating neutral items. I’m a magpie for color and tend to skip on the neutrals because they look boring on the rack. But when I do that, I end up with a closet full of clothes that don’t go together. Or I’m missing that third critical piece, like a neutral top to wear under a colorful cardigan. I’ve had to make a conscious effort to focus on neutrals.
– I’ve picked my neutrals and I stick with them. For summer, I have a lot of black, navy, white, and light gray in the rotation. (Blush also works as a light neutral/white substitute.) In the winter, it’s black, charcoal, off-white, and navy. For the most part, I stay away from camel/tan/olive, not because I don’t like them, but because they’re a whole new color family to contend with.
– I limit patterns. I still have them, but they can be very memorable and it’s harder to repeat items.
– As tempting as it can be to wait for deep discounts, I have to do most of my shopping earlier in the season. Otherwise sizes run out and I’m left cobbling together a wardrobe for most of the season. I still shop clearance sales, but I use them to supplement my wardrobe.
Lots to Learn
This is really helpful. I may adopt this approach.
anon
I’m glad it helped! I started this approach when I returned from maternity leave and was starting almost from scratch in the wardrobe department. That was three years ago and it has helped me so much. I just feel more put-together and prepared for most occasions.
Now, if somebody could help me figure out the best shoe wardrobe, I would be eternally grateful. I am super picky about comfort and heel height.
Foolish Fox
I do sort of similar. I wear grey, black, or navy pants daily. All my jackets/cardigans are similarly neutral. That way my tops can be just about any color or pattern that strikes my fancy. I love bright and pattern so this method works for me.
pugsnbourbon
Same here minus the navy. Black or gray pants, black or gray cardigans/blazers, and then variation in tops/shells. For me, it’s also had the benefit of reducing the random sh*t I used to buy “because it’s such a good deal!”
HSAL
If you’re willing to start from scratch and throw a little (or a lot of) money at it, I’ve often dreamed of adopting one of the wardrobes from The Vivienne files.
Otherwise, I’ve developed a small capsule for the summer out of my existing clothes – it doesn’t all match but it gives me limited options, and I ignore the rest of my clothes. I agree with Garanimals about picking your neutrals. I’ve discovered that I almost never wear brown pants, but navy and grey go with almost every shirt I own.
Sarabeth
This is my basic strategy:
One pair of pants, in three colors (black, navy, grey).
One black skirt.
One dress, in three colors.
One summer shirt, in six colors.
One merino wool cardigan, in three colors (same as pants).
Winter shirts in a few different styles, I think I have 8 total. They can all go under a cardigan.
One pair black ballet flats.
One pair black chelsea boots.
Three pairs of tights (same as pants).
That’s my work wardrobe! I have other stuff for weekends/exercise. I would have more skirts, but I am an academic so I don’t go into the office that much in the summer, and can wear casual clothes when I do – wearing shorts right now, but I don’t think of these as part of my work wardrobe. When it’s cool enough, I prefer pants over skirts.
I developed this wardrobe by going to a few places (MM Lafleur popup, Nordstroms) and finding something I really liked that comes in multiple colors. Got one of each, then set up ebay alerts for that style and my size. So while the pants cost $200 new, I bought the second and third pair for closer to $50 each.
Getting dressed takes five minutes, and I always look put together. None of my clothes are fun statement pieces, but I’m ok with that. When I had more of those pieces, I found that I didn’t wear them that frequently anyway. If I want to take an outfit up a notch, I can add jewelry or a scarf, but I rarely bother.
Anonymous
This is awesome. Thank you
Annony
This is probably not a direct answer, but for the longest time I used to also stand in front of my closet not knowing what to wear in the morning. I eventually figured out why. I don’t have any pants I love. They are never right, either loose when I stand or pinches when I sit, feel different before lunch vs after lunch, need to be worn with specific shoe heights for the length to look right, etc etc. But they were my staples because they were all I owned, and the few times I thought about putting on a skirt, I remembered I hadn’t shaved.
Once I figured that out, I went and bought dresses and skirts (and laser hair removal). They are much much more forgiving on what my waist is doing. I don’t have to match tops to bottoms with dresses, and my skirts are worn with basic solid colored shirts/sweaters (black, white, gray etc) that only take a minute to figure out which color would work because I have so few choices to begin with. I hadn’t looked back.
anon
I really like this solution. I just wish I liked wearing dresses/skirts more. For me, they are very seasonal items and I don’t even buy winter-weight skirts and dresses anymore. I get too cold/uncomfortable, and I loathe tights for all-day wear.
Annony
I guess I should have mentioned I live in the South and get 1 week of cold weather. So even in winter I would wear a sweater dress bare legged. Waiting for the train used to be a pain because of the wind, but I drive to work now and only have to deal with the cold for 2 mins from car to door.
Garanimals
I totally have Garanimals. Twice a year I pull all of my work clothes out and assemble them into outfits. I hang them in the closet by outfit. I grab an outfit each day, add accessories and I’m set. The twice yearly process of assembling makes me realize what I really need — like a pair of brown shoes, or a white top — to fill in the gaps. I shop from the gap list. Over the years I’ve ended up with fewer pieces total, since I have fewer closet orphans. I don’t get all Marie Kondo about the rest of the pieces left over, I just keep them in a single chunk of the closet, and shop them first when something in a Garanimal wears out.
Foolish Fox
How many outfits do you have?
Garanimals
I try to start the season with 15, knowing about a third will turn over.
Aridane
This is me! I realized that pants were so much work — to find and style. I have a wardrobe of mostly dresses and skirts, with few pairs of black /olive/dark jeans, and a dark velvet jean for winter. Lately, the skirts are receiving more wear. This past winter I bought dark ink blue and light grey merino v-necks — they go with ALL the skirts, and even some of the few pants / jeans I have left. I may add some more merino v-necks this fall/winter, as most of my skirts are patterned or textured. I have cardis in dark blue and grey, and a yellow for a pop of color. In the summer, I have a few shorter skirts for walking/ wearing with new balance, and a few for sandals — most match a majority of summer tops. I love dresses, but they are harder to find, and do not seem to last as long as skirts (mostly the top wears out/ pills) a dress is the ‘ultimate’ find for me, but dates more quickly than skirts.
Every year I spend a full shopping day at the mall trying to find pants /jeans that fit well, or are of a good ‘enough’ quality to alter; except for the old navy rockstar jeans, I cannot for the life of me find a pair that flatters (I have found ones that fit, but do not flatter, and I actually take changing room photos on my phone to check). I have tried at Nordstoms, BR, Gap, other stores, and have struck out. I am still optimistic I will find good pants, it is simply a matter of flattery, rather than fit — but for now, I am mostly a dresses and skirts gal.
Anon.
I know this has been covered before, but can you all name your favorite slip on fashion sneaker brands/ styles? Just looking for a comfortable commuting shoe – so not a ton of walking but some, with a very casual job (so not just for commuting!). I’d prefer leather over canvas for durability.
Thanks.
DCAssoc
Not sure this counts, as I realize they are canvas, but I live in my Toms for commuting.
Anony Mouse
+1 Toms makes a few varieties that are leather instead of canvas. I’m wary of their business model, but must admit that the insoles are more comfortable than on any other comparable sneaker I’ve tried.
Anon
I got a new pair of Tom’s (the $70 kind, so a step-up from the basic canvas ones I had before) and I got the worst blisters I have EVER had on my heels. I’m afraid to wear them again because it was a bloodbath.
Anon
Check out the Keds Crashback. I’ve posted it here before. It’s easy and affordable. I have the cognac which is a really great warm brown color.
http://www.keds.com/en/crashback-leather/14354W.html
Anon
I got these in black leather, which work well for me.
The are a flat, basic sneaker with no support, so I slip in a liner. But I wear them constantly.
FYI- I am not a sneaker person. At all.
Senior Attorney
I have these in white and cognac and am very happy with them. Also not a sneaker person.
Scarlett
I’ve posted before, but allbirds – they make a slip on now too. Most comfortable shoe ever.
Anonymous
Also not leather. These are wool.
Scarlett
True, but OP just said preferred & is looking for durability & mine are going on 3 years, so I’d say they fit the bill there.
Anonymous
Caspian sneaker by Josef Seibel. And I also like my Allbirds.
Sanders
+1 . I wore these as my walking shoes on an international trip last year. They were amazing and they are still in good shape. I have bad feet, too, and never had an issue on that trip. They are not the absolute highest fashion, but I was very comfortable wearing them in Europe.
lsw
I’m embarrassed because they are Uggs, but I got a pair of slip on leather sneakers that sort of look like smoking slippers (and have a pinking-style edge like Chloe flats) in the NAS and I love, love them so far. (I mean, after two days.)
Baconpancakes
Just got a pair of Sofft slip ons – perforated leather. Great support and comfortable to walk a good amount.
lsw
Can you post a link? I like Sofft shoes.
Baconpancakes
http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/sofft-somers-ii-slip-on-sneaker-women/4542686?origin=category-personalizedsort&fashioncolor=BLUSH%20PERFORATED%20LEATHER
lsw
ahhh, cute! thank you!
Pompom
Bucketfeet (terrible name) has some neat perforated leather slip ons. I have a pair of the canvas ones, and they are pretty comfortable.
J in Seattle
The Merrell “Barado” style does come in leather, or partially leather, and they hold up quite well. It’s a more “athleisure” look, for sure, but may work for your style.
Anonymous
I bought a pair of these Target sneakers last week on a whim after I wore through my Nike Frees…they are bonkers comfortable and I actually hate taking them off. Highly highly recommend!! And at $35, who cares if they get trashed? https://www.target.com/p/women-s-poise-performance-athletic-shoes-c9-champion-174-black-white/-/A-52102615#lnk=sametab
sombra
Anyone have experience with jaw surgery? Specifically to improve breathing/sinus issues in conjunction with aligning the teeth for orthodontic reasons. I’m in my mid 20s and have seen 2 orthodontists and both have recommended the best/only way to fix the alignment is surgery, just orthodontics would be masking the misalignment. Wondering about prep/cost/recovery, any tips.
Cat
I had upper jaw surgery as a teen to correct an underbite. At the time, I recall my parents had to fight with the insurance company re: classifying it as medically necessary as opposed to cosmetic – they ended up winning but it was a hassle.
Prep was nothing I wasn’t already doing (oh, the years of orthodontia…) and recovery wasn’t horrendous.
The relevant nerves were also injured so they recovered along with my face — so it wasn’t as painful as you might have thought. I was on a liquid/mushy diet for a short while (a few weeks?) – think smoothies and then graduating to creamy PB on crustless Wonder Bread. It probably took a good 2 months for all the swelling to actually subside, though I passed for “normal Cat” before that.
Anon
Cat, could you expand? I am having jaw surgery associated with wisdom tooth removal soon. I know there is a risk of nerve damage, which by choice I wouldn’t chance, but this is a medically necessary procedure because the tooth is infected. How did your recovery go? How extensive was your surgery? I’m shocked to hear the swelling can take two months!
Cat
My upper jaw was broken and moved and reattached with little titanium plates. They took my wisdom teeth out at the same time because why not?
This was two decades ago, so my memories have faded, but my recovery wasn’t complicated – it just took the time it was supposed to take! The worst of the swelling lasted maybe 2 weeks but I felt ok in public (keep in mind I was a teenager) around 2-3 weeks out. No one pays as close of attention to your face as you do – so while I think it actually took 2 months for my face to settle into its new shape with no swelling at all, I didn’t “look” swollen to the average person for that long.
E
My sister had corrective jaw surgery a few summers ago (involved moving her bottom jaw forward). It was, to put it mildly, horrific. She couldn’t eat solid food for months, my mom had to help her shower for a few weeks because she was so weak, etc. It sounds like your surgery may be simpler/less invasive than my sister’s, so you will probably have an easier go of it. I think my family underestimated how bad the recovery would be, so I would definitely plan on having someone around at the beginning of your recovery to help you out.
Anon 101
I had jaw surgery in my 20’s. It involved both my upper and lower jaws as neither grew out as far as they were supposed to and my upper jaw was at a tilt. My teeth intersected at an odd angle and my dentist was predicting I’d grind down all my teeth by my mid-30’s without surgery. In advance of the surgery my parents spent months working things out with the insurance company to get the surgery approved (no one under our carrier performed this type of surgery).
Pre surgery I had tried orthodontics and removal of several teeth, but those weren’t the answer. I was also told to put on a few pounds as I was under normal weight.
The surgery was 10 hours. I was hospitalized for a couple of days. Two plates were installed to fill the space left in the bones (they were cut apart and rearranged to create a longer jaw line). My bones didn’t bind to the plates, so a week later I was back in for an hour surgery to take out the plates and replace them with 10 small screws.
Post op I was on liquids only for about 6 weeks while my jaw was wired shut and the bones fused into place. Something as small as a banana seed or strawberry seed was too big for me. The idea of milkshakes sounds good, but got old quickly. Talking was a huge challenge as I was wired shut and had a plastic plate in my mouth holding everything in place.
I had the surgery over a college break and went back to school two weeks after surgery. I took a full load, but worked with professors to alternate assignments to replace oral presentations. I was exhausted but it was manageable.
After 6 weeks the wires were cut and I was able to eat and talk just fine. I discovered that my teeth had never truly aligned before and that eating had been much more work for me than a typical person. Over-eating was an issue for a bit as it was suddenly so easy to eat everything.
It’s been more than a decade. I’ve had no longer term problems.
Bonnie
I had my upper and lower jaws broken and moved around to fix a severe overbite. The recovery was awful, especially the first few weeks. I was in a lot of pain and swollen and even though my jaw was not wired, it was splinted and I could only eat soft foods or liquids for a month. I did have to have a minor surgery a few years later because bone calcified around one of the screws but it was an out-patient procedure. Even knowing how rough the recovery would be, I would still do it again.
Delta Dawn
My brother had surgery, I think to correct an underbite, about ten years ago. It was pretty miserable. My understanding was they broke his jaw and then wired it shut to heal. I recall it being wired shut for most if not all of that summer. He lost a LOT of weight– he had just graduated high school and was kind of bulked up from playing HS football, and by the time they unwired his mouth he was back to his gangly junior high size. That really took an emotional toll on him. Like many posters above, he was on a liquid diet– I remember making him peanut butter smoothies and adding a lot of protein powders just to get the poor kid some extra calories.
On the upside for Big Sis, it provided a lot of stories that we still laugh about. He couldn’t talk, and he had to go to college orientation that summer, so I tagged along to speak for him if needed. Several times, they would call roll, and they’d get to Brother Dawn’s name, which is a traditional male name– and I sound very female, so I would answer “here” and the whole room would turn around to see why Brother Dawn sounded so… feminine?
He helped me move into my all-female residence that summer, and he found himself stuck on the elevator with my (extremely gorgeous and very kind) friend, Amy. Amy knew him from my photos and said oh, you must be Delta’s brother, I’m Amy, etc. Brother, his mouth wired shut, could only give her the “what’s up” nod. Amy, nice as can be, found me later and was like, so I met your brother, but he wouldn’t talk to me..? Brother is convinced he and Amy would be married by now if only his mouth hadn’t been wired shut. Ah, memories.
anon
I am struggling with how to remain part of a group that I enjoy (think a board of a book club) when I am not a big fan of certain members. I don’t love the group dynamics when certain people are present or when some of the warmer personalities have to miss a meeting. I know people say you can just say no and skip social stuff you don’t want to go to, but this is the kind of group where meetings are scheduled months in advance and people ask why you can’t make something if you say you can come. For example, I’ll say I can attend a meeting in August but when it gets closer I find out that several people are coming that I don’t like and my favorite people can’t make it. So what do I do? Suck it up even though it won’t be fun? Lie and say I’m sick? Make up an excuse? I know I’m way overthinking this, but it’s becoming a major source of anxiety for me. Does anyone else deal with this, and if so, what do you do?
Anonymous
Find a balance. Definitely attend when your friends are there. Bail last minute sometimes for a work or family ’emergency’ when they are not. Attend a few times even if your friends aren’t there (arrive late/leave early) so it’s not super obvious that you’re avoiding certain members of the group because that could get awkward depending on group size – thinking book club of 8 and you have a ‘work emergency’ every time #6 and 7 attend, it could get awkward.
Garanimals
I think the advice is sound, but that sounds so exhausting. If it requires that much social engineering to feel comfortable and appear engaged “enough,” without making it obvious that you’re avoiding certain people, be kind to yourself and leave the group. You can still meet up with the people you enjoy, outside the book club environment.
Or, if you don’t want to drop out entirely, commit to going every other month rather than monthly and let the chips fall where they may. That way you’re not constantly having the internal debate about whether to go that month and spending energy figuring out who will be there.
Anonymous BigLaw Associate
Yeah, I left a few different groups like this but still see my friends I made in those groups on my own. I don’t want to flake or lie, so that was really my only option. I sort of decided groups aren’t for me for this reason, but am open to the idea of joining another group if it comes along and seems right.
Samantha
This cascades a bit if everyone decides Y/N based on whether everyone else is attending. Someone else may have been counting on you to come to be the soul of the party. So I’d say it isn’t fair to bail after you’ve committed, all or most of the time but OK to do that occasionally.
Vacation
How far in advance of a vacation can I refuse new assignments? I’m in biglaw (could you guess?) and going on my first week-long vacation starting this Saturday. The partners keep giving me new assignments. When they do, I remind them about my vacation. They say, no problem just take care of it before you leave it’ll be quick!, or, get as much done as you can (which I know from experience actually means, you need to finish it). I already have more work than I can possibly do before I leave; I’ve been working with the partners to delegate the larger ongoing assignments. I didn’t feel like I could turn down “quick” assignments last week but at this point I’ve got 3 days left in the office and a huge pile of work to power through. How do you handle this?
Cat
I don’t mean to sound harsh, but unless you are working for some unicorn BigLaw firm that cares about you having a true vacation, you will be bringing your laptop and working while you’re gone.
Anon
I work for the unicorn BigLaw firm, but it sounds like you don’t and you will be working on your vacation (which I have had to do from time to time even at my unicorn BigLaw firm). At a more senior level, we kind of coordinate among each other in corporate to cover while someone is out on vacation (e.g., I will step in for another senior associate on a deal to handle the bulk of the stuff while they are on vacation). In smaller deals, the partner and I trade off coverage to at least minimize disruptions to the person on vacation. As a junior though, you might be out of luck.
Also as a junior, if I knew work was going to spill over into my vacation, I didn’t kill myself in the days before vacation to get it all done, I just worked the first few days of my vacation to finish stuff out (mornings only, something like that) and that for me was much less stressful.
You might also get to all you can before you leave and then check in with the partners to ask whether the rest needs to be done by a certain timeline (e.g., can this wait until I get back or can someone else pick it up). I suspect the answer will be no, in which case, see above.
nutella
This was my experience and why after years of cancelled vacations, I did not take my first full week of vacation until I went in-house. (Unless this is a honeymoon, seemingly the only time it is known you won’t be doing work.)
anon in SV
Accurate. You will be working on vacation. That is the price of that salary.
Anonymous
Not at my AmLaw 50 firm, unless you choose to go away during a very hectic period or you are gone for an extended period of time (some associates with family in foreign countries take 2-3 weeks off at a time to see their family and expect to basically work full time while they’re there). But for a normal one week vacation that’s not at a crunch time, people are pretty respectful of the fact that you’re on vacation and won’t be working. You have to be available over email and you may have to do a very quick assignment, like turning around revisions on a draft or locating a relevant document (especially for junior litigation associates, who probably know more about the documents than anyone else on the case). But I’ve never been asked to do a brief from scratch or write an extensive research memo on vacation, and on most vacations I’ve taken I’ve billed less than three hours total.
Anonymous
With the caveat that I no longer work in a law firm, so I expect to be corrected if this is disastrous advice . . . instead of reminding them about your vacation, give them the timeline in which you can complete it (when you get back) and, depending on how senior you are, if that doesn’t work for them offer them up an alternative solution involving an associate more junior that you.
Ms B
When I was the associate, the most successful approach was “I am headed to vacation starting Saturday. I already have work for partners X, Y and Z that has to be completed before I leave and that would prevent me from getting to your project at all. But if partner X, Y or Z is all right with me working on your project instead, then I can pick it up. Just have whichever one of them you work it out with let me know who I should pass their work to and I will come by to pick your project up.”
Passive aggressive, but I found it moderately effective.
Anonymous
Yes to making sure they know about the other work. Not sure I’d be quiiite so passive aggressive, but this is generally the approach I’d take. A project cannot be done quickly if you already have other assignments in line ahead of it. Never take it for granted that partners know what other work you have going on.
OP
Re: other assignments in line ahead of it – I was told at my last review that I need to do a better job of “multitasking.” As far as I can tell that means that I can’t say no to something “quick” (that’s never quick) just because I have, say, a brief to write today. Sometimes there’s a legitimate conflict, like 2 emergency briefs due on the same day; I’ve absolutely told partners to figure out which I should do. Most of the time, though, it’s something like, I need you to spend 2 hours researching x by the end of the day, but then there are always follow-up questions so the assignment morphs into 4+ hours.
Partner
This. Not sure what kind of assignment or pool system your firm/group uses, but this should be resolved by having the partners you work for prioritize their projects. They may not be happy to defer to each other, but they know it’s their job, not yours, to figure this out.
Anonymous
When you get a new assignment ask when it needs to be done by. If they say August 15, agree to do it (and do it when you get back). If they say July 26 (or any other date between now and the end of your vacation) tell them you already have too much work to get an assignment done by that deadline. I used this strategy and never worked on vacation except once during a real emergency. My firm expected associates to check email all the time on vacation and respond to questions or urgen needs that came up, but didn’t expect associates to head to the beach with a boatload of existing work. (Caveat that I didn’t and probably wouldn’t have made partner but I left the firm voluntarily as a sixth year who had always had excellent reviews).
Anonymous BigLaw Associate
Yeah this is exactly how I handle this as well. With one exception that involved a totally unexpected client emergency, I’ve never really done substantive work on a vacation. Been practicing for 5 years and take 3-4 weeks of vacation a year. Ymmv, because I think I may be at the unicorn biglaw firm others mention. And I am generally a high biller overall with really lumpy workflow because of my practice. I do a good many trials (for biglaw), appeals, and other sorts of work that has huge bursts that results in 300+ hour months a few times a year.
PEN
Has anyone here bought a very used car and had a good experience? Thinking of spending about 5K on a used Honda Pilot or Volvo XC90, but am open to other vehicles with a third row. Since a move, my family is not using our newer vehicle much and I would like to sell it and replace with a solid but used vehicle.
Anonymous
Our experience has been that purchasing a very used car is a huge risk, but purchasing a reliable car new, maintaining it well, and hanging on to it for a very long time can be quite cost-effective. I would either keep the car you have or stop owning a car altogether and just rent one when you need one, depending on how often you use the car and under what circumstances.
Anonymous
This.
We just bought a new (well, certified used, but new to us) car and ended up paying about half the cost and financing the other half at 1.5% for two years. We had enough money to buy an older car outright, but we’ve been there, done that with older cars and repairs/reliability issues. My car is a certified used Hyundai, which still has the original warranty in effect, and everything that’s gone wrong with it has been under warranty. That’s been really nice, especially as I spent $3500 in one year on my last car to keep it running, and then found out it still needed $1500 in repairs to prevent it from breaking down again.
I think when you’re talking about a car for a family, reliability and safety are key. I don’t want to have to worry that the car’s not going to start when I need to take the kids somewhere. My friend had a 10-year-old Volvo that she just traded in because even though those cars are tanks, she had over 100,000 miles on it and it started having problems. They do not make cars like they used to, when my grandfather owned the same Cadillac Eldorado for 25 years. I would just hang on to your existing car, unless the payment is so high you’re having trouble affording it.
Anonymous
If you’re dropping only 5K, don’t buy the volvo. The maitenance could kill you. I’d opt for the Honda or something I could get fixed for cheap(er) and at lots of places.
been there, done that
Anonymous
I would have said don’t buy the Pilot for 5k. A large SUV for only 5k… something is probably wrong with it.
Anonymous
That was me above — you are right. For a good used Pilot, I’d expect to pay north of 15K and probably closer to 20K.
Miss
This. You really need to calculate in maintenance costs for an older vehicle and foreign parts can be expensive and time consuming. This is anecdata, but my coworker with a Volvo hates it because the car has to be basically deconstructed for even minor repairs.
Subie Nation
Subarus! I don’t have a car recommendation for 3rd row models, but there’s a reason all those heartfelt commercials about subaru generations exist. low upkeep costs, keep chugging, moderate gas mileage.
I bought one used at 16k miles and now I’m at 96k.
I don’t know why people are afraid of buying used cars – the crucial piece is having it inspected by a mechanic you trust. but otherwise, a used car is like any other car you own: the more its driven the more it will break down.
PEN
I would love a subie—but they have never consistently done a third row
Anonymous
They are coming out with the new three row this fall
Anonymous
Older Subarus, yes. Newer ones, no. I have a 2012 Impreza and that model year is prone to all sorts of issues–excessive oil consumption, catalytic converter failure, etc. I will never buy another one, which is sad because I really wanted to love the brand.
Eeertmeert
I just bought a 2005 Subaru, and while i had to replace all the engine fluids (which was not noticed by the mechanic who did the pre- purchase inspection) i am really happy with my purchase.
Definitely get a good, trusted mechanic and a Full engibe health check before purchase, and negotiate from there.
I hope you find a new/used car that you love :)
nuqotw
You have to be pretty patient to buy a significantly used car; ask yourself if you would rather spend time searching for something older or money buying something newer. Also, you want to be fairly fussy about make / model. Some cars age better than others.
That said, we bought both of our 2005 Toyota Priuses from private sellers on Craigslist and are very happy. We got one in 2015 and the other in early 2017. Both sellers agreed to take the cars to our mechanic, who checked out the cars for us (this cost under $100 per check) and made a specific recommendation to buy or not. It is well worth the time and money to have your mechanic do this work. One car which we didn’t buy had been in a fairly significant accident; we would never have known, but the mechanic was able to tell easily. Not all sellers were willing to take their cars to our mechanic; we simply walked away from all such situations.
ELS
I bought my 2010 Honda CRV used in 2012 from a reputable dealer in our area. It had been a lease prior to my purchase. I spent significantly more than $5K, but have had zero problems with it, and aside from regular maintenance, it hasn’t been in the shop. It had about 20K miles on it when I bought it, and I am just around 100K now (we live in a rural area and drive a lot).
I would caution you against a significantly used car if you don’t know the history and, as nuqotw says, are not willing to do research in makes/models.
Anonymous
5k will not get you a reliable car with third-row seating.
In House Lobbyist
Yes but only because my husband is a car guy and can fix things. At $5000 for either of those vehicles, you are looking at 10 years and well over $100,000. I would only do it if I was handy with cars. And I would pick a Toyota or Honda over a Volvo.
Gearhead husband
Yes, but my husband and I only do this because he’s very handy and fixing cars is a hobby of his. If you aren’t handy, the money you save on the cost of the car will likely be eaten up by the repairs.
Gearhead husband
And I would add that the cars we have tend to be around the $8-10k price point. The cheapest car we got was a very used Honda Civic for around $4k, but that’s less of a gamble because it’s a very simple, reliable car. I agree with other posters that a large SUV at that price point is going to be a problem.
Anonymous
We bought a used Tahoe with 80k on it. We took it to a shop before buying it that did a full inspection. We then had the shop price out all the repairs and factored that into the super cheap price of the used car to get a fuller picture of the cost. We also have a cash reserve set aside for a major repair (e.g. transmission) if needed. So far so good.
Roma
I’m planning a trip to Rome in early October and am seeking recommendations on stuff I might not find in a guidebook: hidden special restaurants, lovely viewpoints, unexpected good ideas (a past search of thisssite suggests people watching over a glass of wine is a good idea in piazza navona). I’ll be traveling solo. TIA!
Never too many shoes...
I feel like this *just* came up last week and there were a number of responses.
Anon
That was me. It was on the 7/7/17 morning post if OP wants to check it out.
Roman Food tour
It may be too late in the day to reply, but I did a food tour in Rome called “Food Tour Rome,” and loved it. We went to a neighborhood I would have never found, as a tourist. And, of course, the food was divine (started with breakfast at a Sicilian bakery, ended with gelato). Link to follow
Roman Food tour
http://foodtourrome.com/
Laura
This is probably too late to post, but I was there last October and loved it. Yelp worked surprisingly well with restaurant and wine bar recs. While there are a million tourists, my absolute favorite part was the Ancient Rome tour, especially the Forum. In my opinion, Piazza Navona was not that great, and I wish I had gone to the Trevi Fountain super early in the day to beat the crowds. If you’re willing to just walk around the city all day, you’ll see so many amazing things. I found that the best restaurants tended to be on random side streets off the beaten path.
Anon for this
I wrote here a while ago about my lawyer husband who previously worked until 30 as a carpenter. He got laid off and I encouraged him to look for carpentry jobs, but I was a little anxious about the implications. Well, he has gotten a really cool carpentry job at a well-known company, doing amazing work. He used to come home stressed and exhausted, wanting to talk about anything but work. Now he comes home so happy and energized, rambling about his newest project and excited for the next day. I am so proud of him!
Of course, the downside is the pay. He has gone from making big law money to…$20/hour! I think it’s a little sick. It’s highly skilled labor for a very successful company – they have only ~100 employees but their revenue is around $10 million a year. My hope is the poor pay is because he was a risk, hadn’t worked as a carpenter for a decade, etc, and that he’ll get a raise. But still…
He has this whole plan to work through the end of the year and then find some unicorn law job, with great hours and great pay, before we TTC next year. But I don’t want him to be a lawyer again! Money aside, he is as happy as I’ve ever seen him and that is worth so much more. He was always working as a lawyer, and now he has so much more time and energy for our family. I think he could really grow in this area, even start his own business, etc. A lot of carpenters make good pay. Nonetheless, some of his self-worth is tied up in money, and the paycheck is pretty brutal.
It feels really weird though, to be discouraging him from going back into law, after a year of cheering him on that he’s a great lawyer who will get a great job. Have any of you navigated something like this? I want to be supportive, but the idea of him going back to some miserable job he hates breaks my heart. Money isn’t an issue yet, as my job pays well and more or less affords us our old lifestyle, especially since we’d cut stuff when he lost his job, but once we have kids of course this will change. I also feel more locked in – like if he’s a carpenter forever, I need to have a good job forever instead of pursuing my own passions (pipe dream to open a music school or something someday).
P.S. the muscles he’s building and manly scent of sawdust and sweat are definitely NOT downsides…
Scarlett
I’d encourage him to do what makes him happy, and it sounds like having his own business eventually could be a great option. With a law background, he probably has enough business sense to make that viable. I’d encourage that direction while you’re in a phase where you can live on one salary.
Anonymous
Could he pitch to the company he is currently with to do some of their legal on an in-house basis? Basically, it might not make it worthwhile to hire a full-time in house counsel but maybe he could take over certain aspects.
You can also point out that having a baby is stressful so maybe after baby is the better time for the change back to law once you have both adjusted to being parents.
Blonde Lawyer
I’d add, with the legal work at a much higher hourly rate.
emeralds
I’d encourage you to do some in-depth dives into the FIRE online community (financial independence/”early retirement”) to examine what other people have done to support the kinds of structural quality-of-life changes you’re looking at right now. Mr. Money Moustache and Frugalwoods are both good examples of how very different people with very different outlooks have made even more drastic changes than what you’re looking at work for their families. You’ll also see a lot of counterpoints to the voice inside your head telling you that you’re locked into your current position forever.
I don’t know what the right answer for you and your family is, but I think life is too short to make yourself miserable over prestige. Also, if he’s working full time as a carpenter at $20/hour, that equates to ~$41k/year (pre-tax, obviously). According to the Census Bureau, the median American household made ~$55k in 2016. Maybe you’ll have to make some lifestyle and financial adjustments to make his current gig sustainable, but there’s no reason why you shouldn’t be able to make it work if you decide (as a family) that his happiness is more important than the paycheck.
Anonymous
Just want to chime in and say that reading Mr. Money Mustache has totally changed our viewpoint about our lifestyle. Instead of feeling like “OMG we’re so trapped in our middle-class lifestyle” we look at it as, there’s tons of stuff we can cut if we had to, and also tons of ways to make money without a normal “job.” While I don’t agree with how MMM presents himself (he’s not retired; he’s an independent business owner/entrepreneur, and I wish he’d own that, as he makes entrepreneurship look attainable), his viewpoints have challenged us to cut out waste spending and get smarter about money. Highly recommended reading.
For the OP – many people, and a lot of men, link money with success and can’t separate the two. Ultimately, this is not your decision to make. I say that as someone who has been married almost 20 years. It’s his life and while what he does affects you, he needs to make his own career decisions, as long as the decision isn’t going to bankrupt the household or result in criminal charges. Please take it from me that trying to micromanage your spouse’s career usually ends in unhappiness all around; I speak from experience. I honestly think the best thing you can do right now is back off and let him figure some things out on his own. He’s your husband, but you do not own him. He’s an adult and he’s working; let him figure out the next steps with some breathing room around him.
emeralds
Your critique of MMM is exactly why I put early retirement in quotes! That distinction really bugs me.
Suburban
+1 there is an optimism to mmm that made me rethink our life in the best way.
Rainbow Hair
As you know, having a spouse miserable from work, and then *not* miserable from work — it’s a night and day difference. For me, it would be worth it for him to try to keep that job provided you were able to do things like (1) save for retirement/emergencies, (2) count on his salary briefly if things got complicated with childbirth etc., and (3) imagine living long term with your salaries as they are. My husband used to be a mason, and is currently considering some somewhat-physical, outside type jobs, and I’m pretty pumped about the idea of it for a lot of the reasons you state. There’s nothing s*xier than a person doing something they loves and are proud of.
Anonymous
I remember your post but honestly don’t remember how long ago it was. How long has it been since he left law and became a carpenter? Has it been 1-2 yrs? Why not make a plan within carpentry to make more money. Likely that does involve starting his own business – figure out how much more experience does he need to have a viable business; where would his clientele come from etc. Reality is the building trades are HOT right now and there are shortages of skilled workers. If he wants to start a business – why not aim to do that in the next 6 months or so? I’m sure you don’t want to hear it but building trades move with the economy — and we’ve been in a growth cycle for 8-ish yrs now; it likely won’t last that much longer but hopefully it squeaks out another 1-2 yrs. Think back to 08-09 there was no building going on anyplace. Why not launch a business now and make some money while he can?
And realistically – does he think it’ll be easy to get back into law? It’s a classist kind of field- you go tell senior partners that you were laid off and doing manual labor . . . um 99% of them will nod along acting interested and maybe some are and then the callback will go to someone who is coming from a competing firm.
lawsuited
I’m not going to go into the details for the sake of anonymity, but I can so relate to your situation.
Re: communicating your about-face from “you’re a great lawyer!” to “don’t go back to being a lawyer!” I actually think it’s pretty easy. Just explain that you are now seeing him happier than he ever was working as a lawyer, and you want that to continue.
Re: feeling locked in. In most families, someone is a primary breadwinner. Your husband was willing to take on that role by forcing himself into a high-paying law job that he wasn’t cut out for. It’s not fair that some jobs get paid more and others don’t, and it’s not fair that some people are better suited to those high-paying jobs and others aren’t. I always try to remind myself that I’m just lucky that I’m well-suited to a high-paying law job that takes care of me and my family. I know that if my husband happened to be in the higher-paying job he wouldn’t resent me and my lower-paying job, so I try to remind myself of that as well.
Sarabeth
I agree – I think it’s actually pretty easy to say, “You’re a great lawyer! Any company would be lucky to have you! But you seem so much happier since you’ve switched fields, and happiness is all I want for you, so just because you are good at being a lawyer doesn’t mean you should be.”
Senior Attorney
Can he look for a union job as a carpenter? I don’t know how many such jobs exist any more, but my dad was a union carpenter his whole career and has a great pension. Plus he eventually got into project supervision and made good money.
Anon
+1. This was going to be my recommendation. Trades can bring in really respectable salaries. This company might just need to be his entry level (um, times two) job again and then he can move up.
Actuary
Only you two can really make the call but I made the decision a while back that my husband being happy was much more important than him feeling like he was selling his soul in some corporate job, especially when I have a decent paying job that I don’t hate (and he really hated his corp job). So I encouraged him to quit and pursue something he was more passionate (but paid much less). I definitely feel the way you describe though that everything is on my shoulders, especially now with two kids. What’s made it easier is that we live really below our means and built up substantial savings. Just the idea that if it’s ever too much, I could walk away makes this less stressful (i.e. It’s more of a choice versus being locked in).
Anon
I work for a large company that provides a general service. Neither the industry nor my company is directly related to government or politics. My position at the company also has no connection to government or politics. However, the company’s culture requires that in order to move into upper management in any department, you must donate significant money to a PAC the company supports, which in turn supports candidates from a political party which is generally supportive of the company’s industry (attending campaign related events for candidates of this political party is also promoted internally and viewed favorably by upper management). I belong to and am actively involved in the other political party and would find a new job before I got on board with this policy. Is this cultural requirement common at other companies?
Anonymous
I assume this is not a publicly traded company? I have never worked anywhere with a “requirement” like this and, frankly, even if was a side/cause I supported would balk at this. I’ve also not had any friends who have experienced something like this. I’d be searching for a new job.
Anon OP
No, it is publicly traded.
Digby
Mine, too, Anon OP – S&P 500.
Anonymous
Wow, I had no idea this was a thing!
Digby
I could have written this, except our “voluntary, but not really” PAC contributions are less than $1k per year. At least at my level of the company and for maybe two levels above me; I don’t know about life at the top. I don’t like it, and my politics don’t align with those of my employer or its key employees, as far as I can tell, but I need the job for now. So, commiseration.
Anonymous
My husband’s company pressured managers to donate to its PAC, which I thought was highly inappropriate. But maybe this is more common than I realized?
campaign lawyer
Legally speaking, they cannot base employment decisions on donations. They can solicit the donations, but not in a coersive manner. Practically speaking, these cases are tough to prove, absent a written solicitation that is inappropriate.
Anonymous
If I had his ear, I’d encourage him to deal directly with the “self-worth tied up in money” part. (And you, too, if that’s an issue for you.) Being free of that would open up a lot of options for him.
Anonymous
oops, this was for the lawyer husband turned carpenter.
Rant
This morning a coworker stopped me while I was carrying a box down a hallway and informed me that the box was too heavy for me to carry. The box wasn’t large, and it weighed 20-30 lbs.
Maybe this is just ego/an overdeveloped misogyny meter, but his comment made me mad. I wasn’t struggling to carry the box. Part of my job is distributing deliveries, which includes the occasional heavy box. If I had found it too heavy, there are plenty of carts and hand trucks that I could have used. But I’m strong enough to carry the box and I’m proud of that fact, so please just let me do my job and carry the d@mn box!
Anonymous
Gah. The other day someone decided to make a big deal out of not giving me a champagne glass to sip from for a toast at work, because I’m pregnant. We can handle our damn selves, people!
tribble
I hear you. The staff clutch their pearls when they see me walking down the hallway carrying a file box. I don’t want a stupid unwieldy cart, it’s easier to just carry it! And no I don’t need help from the 18 year old kid in the copy room who looks like a stiff breeze would blow him over.
Linda from HR
Oh boy do I understand! Offering to help is one thing, insisting that the thing you’re carrying and not in any way struggling with is too heavy for you is RUDE!
I was recently on a week-long vacation where we traveled to a few different places, and I had to haul my 45+ lb. suitcase with me everywhere. It was big and cumbersome, and I didn’t exactly enjoy lugging it into the trains or up stairs, but I could handle it just fine, so when men constantly said “oh let me get that, it’s too heavy for you” I firmly, but politely, corrected them. I appreciated the help, but I did not appreciate the assumption about what I could and could not carry. I’m stronger than I look, g-darnit!
Anonymous
Eh – I guess. If someone is willing to carry a heavy box for me, I’m certainly not going to argue.
NewRecruit
+1. Thought it was just me. *Shrugs
Mpls
I dunno – was the guy actually offering to take it, or just commenting on the fact that it was (in his opinion) over the weight limit for her ovaries?
I could see it happening either way.
Rant
I don’t mind offers to help, but this wasn’t one. He literally stopped me in the hallway and said, “That’s too heavy for you to carry.” I responded by saying “No, it’s really not. I’m fine.”
If he did want to help carry the box, then he should have offered without commenting on whether or not I was physically able to do it myself.
Mpls
And, the thing is, if the 20-30 lbs were child-shaped, it wouldn’t have warranted the same response from the dude.
CountC
Yea, there is a difference between, “Can I help you with that?” and “That’s too heavy for you.”
One is a polite offer to help, the other is a judgment, erroneous in fact as you are clearly carrying it so it is not too heavy for you. All the nopes on the latter.
Blonde Lawyer
The child shaped comment is SO true.
Aunt Jamesina
OMG, spot on on the child comment, Mpls!
Anon
That would annoy the crap out of me and I’d maybe tell my coworker that, depending on how I felt that day.
Aunt Jamesina
Ugh, that would be the perfect time to ask “why do you say that?”. But I wouldn’t think to say that until an hour later.
Anon-for-this
How did you come-up with a style that you like and makes you feel confident? I am very easily influenced by other women’s style and appearance. For example, I decide to wear dresses in the summer, but then I see a co-worker wearing skinny pants and I turn around and want to wear skinny pants. I guess what I am saying is that I lack confidence in the way I look and what I like or dislike. I know I should be myself, original, and confident, but how? I am decent looking, not overweight, I am happy at home and at work. But somehow I always find myself copying other women…This is a confidence issue, right? How do I “become myself” once and for all? Please do not judge.
Anonymous
Are you the SWF person being written above?
But seriously — moderation and blog-browsing. And at work, it is probably better to be boring than to have your signature style, esp. if you are young.
lawsuited
+1 If you’re relatively new to working life, it’s fine to try out whatever interests you and see what works/sticks. I think artificially creating a signature style doesn’t work, you sort of settle into your signature style over many years of keeping what works for you and rejecting what doesn’t.
Me too
I wish I had some good advice, but I can commiserate. I’ve gotten more confident with my style as I’ve entered my late ’30s, but it’s still a struggle at times. It feels very middle-school to say that, but that’s exactly how I feel sometimes. Especially around thin, attractive women who just seem to innately know how to be cool. (I require some coaching, haha.)
Midwest Mama
I struggle with confidence too (thanks narcissistic mom) and I’m not particularly creative when thinking of my own outfit ideas. That said, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with (1) wearing a variety of outfits (dresses, pants, etc.) or (2) admiring an outfit on someone else that you may not have thought of and working it into your own wardrobe. Building confidence in yourself takes time and work, but as far as clothing goes, I would suggest looking at sites like Pinterest to get an idea of different styles you might like and then going shopping and trying things on to see what you like and what looks good on you.
New Tampanian
I would also recommend that you utilize a personal stylist at Nordstrom. Have them style you and see how you feel. You aren’t required to purchase anything and they may have you try some items that you normally wouldn’t. They give honest feedback on what looks good.
Senior Attorney
I feel like a key component of my personal style is, in fact, copying looks that I like. I don’t think you’re required to invent the wheel on a daily basis. I even have a Pinterest board called “outfits I have copied and in which I have left the house!”
Anonymous
Seconded! I have definite preferences about the types of items I own and how I style them, but I sometimes see someone else wearing the types of items that I like in a different way and try to replicate that look to see if I like it on me too. It’s fun to play around sometimes to not get stuck in a style rut.
pugsnbourbon
It really is just time and trying things out. And giving yourself permission not to like something.
You are still you, no matter what you’re wearing. I know that’s not what you asked, but I’ve struggled with the feeling of “not knowing who I am” – still struggle sometimes – but what’s helped me is working on the internal things, not externals. And then the externals sometimes fall into place.
Aunt Jamesina
Remember that every single person is being influenced by someone; those at the top are being influenced by the runway, and then it trickles down to us regulars through Instagram, blogs, and people we see in real life. It’s very normal, and wanting to fit in is human. It’s taken me until my early 30s to have any sense of what my style is, and it’s always going to be a work in progress.
Aridane
Late in the day reply, but this feeling you describe sometimes crops up for me as well. I figure whatever I try to wear/ copy/ see/ is ‘me’ by virtue that I like it. I am at ease with having many different styles, yet they are all ‘me’ if that makes sense. I love ‘people watching’ with a tea or coffee in my city (and the dozens of times I have people watched in Europe – amazing!) — gives me ideas, and things to think about — I like how so many different styles appear, and how people personalize their looks.
I agree with the poster who said style is a ‘work in progress.’ My style keeps evolving and changing, and I don’t have one style — some days, I’m all about florals, and feminine dresses, while other days, I am ‘sportier’ and ready for a 10 km urban walk — embrace all the styles, and if you see something you like and want to try it out, that is ok too!
Bride
Cake update! Posted here about making my own wedding cake and most of you (and people in my real life too) thought it was a bad idea, but wanted to know how it went. Just an update that it went really well!
I was able to make most of it in advance, so there was just a little assembly to do day-of. The most stressful / least successful part was driving it to the venue, and though it got a little (a lot) lopsided, it was beautiful and delicious! The caterer actually scrounged up to-go boxes because so many people wanted to take some home!
If anyone is considering this, it was a lot of work but really fun. I practiced for about a year, testing recipes and learning how to assemble. But you can do almost everything in advance – cake actually tastes better / is moister after freezing. I saved a little money compared to the crazy cake prices in NYC, but between all of the supples and practice cakes, it was by no means cheap.
It was three-tiered, vanilla bean cake with raspberry and blueberry fillings. And Italian meringue buttercream, which was time-consuming but worth it (less sweet and fluffier than normal buttercream, plus held up to summer heat).
If you already love to bake, want to DIY something and have the time to practice, do it!! It felt wonderful to feed my guests something I baked with love, and I’d definitely consider doing this for friends/family.
C
I’m so glad you did this! I don’t think I replied on the original thread, but I’ve been hoping you would post an update. I think it’s amazing that you were able to serve everyone at your weddings something you baked yourself and that they all enjoyed it so much! So many people get caught up in having the trendiest, most perfect over the top wedding cakes with 15 tiers of different flavors topped with Swarovski crystals and featured on the cover of a magazine that they forget the point of cake- to have everyone eat it and enjoy it as they celebrate with you. You accomplished that and it sounds like your cake was delicious, well-received, and absolutely perfect.
Katie
I’m so glad to hear this! I decorate cakes as a hobby – in lieu of buying close friends a birthday gift, I’ll usually make a custom cake for them. (Once in a while someone will “hire” me to make something, but I don’t consider myself anywhere near professional.) I like to think that if I get married, I’d make my own cake too, and it’s very encouraging to hear that it’s possible, and that your guests really appreciated it!
AIMS
A friend of mine has a friend whose mom does this as a hobby. For my friend’s wedding, which was super informal and held on a farm, she baked her the most gorgeous cake. Between that and the rose petals everywhere (somewhat brought two giant bags to decorate with), it was one of the most gorgeous and memorable weddings I’ve ever attended.
Glad to hear your cake worked out, OP, and congrats!
Jeffiner
I’m so glad you did this! I didn’t see the original thread, but I made my own wedding cake too, and like you almost everyone told me not to do it. I also spent about a year testing recipes and practicing. But in the end it was so worth it. Congratulations!!
January
This sounds delicious. Come to my house and bake me a cake?
Blonde Lawyer
Senior Attorney has been asking about you. I hope she sees this.
Senior Attorney
Yay!! Thanks so much for the update! I’m so glad you proved the naysayers wrong!!
Wow
What a loving gesture you provided for all of your guests! I’m sure they appreciated it immensely. I’m so impressed!
Miss
Sounds delicious!! I’m glad everything went well.
Biglaw Newbie
How do you make sure you don’t overlook small mistakes/typos (things like justifying) in your work? I haven’t been “called out” on it in the sense that anyone has said “you made X mistakes” and it doesn’t happen enough that it’s affecting my work (still getting lots of work from same and new folks; everyone always says I’m doing a good job, etc.), but I HATE getting redlines and seeing my mistakes, especially from senior associates I really enjoy working with.
I print stuff out to review and go line by line, yet for longer documents, my eyes sort of glaze over and I’m overlooking things. Do you have some sort of checklist for making sure your docs are correct? I would love any and all tips on making sure work goes out the door well.
I’m also honestly working on not procrastinating, but still struggle. I think this is definitely causing some of the issues, but sometimes I just can’t get it right, even with plenty of time. Similarly, sometimes I just don’t have enough time with the deadline we were given–how do you manage this in that context?
tribble
Ask your assistant or another associate to proofread after you’ve done all you can. Sometimes you just can’t look at the same document anymore.
And also… forgive yourself. You’re not going to lose your motion because one paragraph wasn’t justified.
Flats Only
I find that the only way for me to effectively concentrate when proof reading is to read it in a robot voice (in my head of course). It slows me down and forces me to read each word. For formatting, do that after the proofing, and just be systematic.
Winter
I’m definitely going to try this! Love it.
Pompom
Haha I do this but with accents! Reading things, pretending to be a BBC presenter, for example…fun and helpful.
Also Newb
+1 — to jump onto this convo:
How do you deal with (or adjust for) the long amount of time I’m billing for my work?
I feel bad about ‘overbilling’ my tasks because I want to proofread/review docs multiple times before I give it to my partner for review (so I don’t look dumb or sloppy).
Is this just a part of the process? and don’t worry about my new assoc. fluff time being written off? am I overthinking this, just bill my time as I use it and let the partner worry about it?
Anon
It’s part of the process. If you’re taking too long, the partner will write it off (and/or call the senior associate to ask if the work that person is doing should have taken that long and then write it off). You will get faster over time. We expect baby lawyers to take twice as long to do something – oftentimes it’s still cheaper than us doing it given billable rates. If you are habitually taking too long, the partner will discuss it with you.
P.S. Proofreading multiple times is also something seniors/partners do. If I am marking up a purchase agreement, odds are I’ve read it at least 5-6 times, either in full or at least the redline (continually refining provisions), and the partner has read it at least 2 or 3.
TheElms
I use checklists for things I do a lot to make sure I don’t skip steps. So for letters my checklist has things like:
1. Check date updated on all pages (not just first)
2. Check paragraphs are justified (copying and pasting tends to mess things up)
3. Check no awkward page breaks
4. If partner X is signing, check signature line says Best regards rather than Regards, because that is Partner X’s preference.
I also read aloud and sometimes sentence by sentence from the end of the document to the beginning.
A last suggestion would be to keep a list of things that get corrected in your work and check documents specifically for those things. At least then you will be making different mistakes and not the same mistakes over and over again.
SC
+1 to keeping a list of things that get corrected so you know to check them. You can also keep a list of different senior associates’ or partners’ quirks or pet peeves. For instance, at my last firm, I knew that Partner X liked a single space after a period, but Partner Y liked a double space. Partner Z hated split infinitives with a fiery passion. Associate A always changed the text to justified, while Associate B changed it to align left.
Don’t get me started when we had a major brief due, and all these people would correct each other’s corrections but blame me because they were seeing a “clean” copy, not a redline, as it went up the chain.
Anon
Your second paragraph is the most frustrating! At one point, I had to sit them down and tell them to decide on a word choice because they kept switching it back and forth and blaming me. (We’re a small firm, it’s not as inappropriate as it sounds)
M
I second the list making. I have two lists. One is general and applies to all filings (spacing, date checks, those sort of things). Then, as I do an initial read-through, I make a second list of reaccuring issues in the doc that need to be corrected (references to certain things, incorrect names, etc). I go through both lists, make my changes in redline, and only after that do I read through the document. For really long ones, I start by reading the last sections first.
I am also a huge fan of finding tech tools to help me improve. Currently I have two macros installed on my MS Word. One finds all the acronyms in a document and exports them to a new document to check them. The other highlights (you have the have the highlight button on) the passive voice in a document.
http://ryanmacklin.com/2012/05/passive-voice-words/
http://www.thedoctools.com/downloads/basACRONYMS_Extract.htm
Also, make sure you give yourself enough time to review and make sure you have an undistracted space. Shut your office door and turn off your monitor when going through a hard copy. I usually let partners know that I am doing this and that if they need me for an emergency, they can knock or call me.
Anonymous
Some of us are better with details than others. I am one who makes stupid mistakes in documents. One thing that helps is to print it out and wait 24 hours. Also, reviewing it from bottom to to will help you see errors.
Anonymous
Checklists are helpful. I also rely a lot on the word processing department for proofreading, although they are hit or miss.
Anon
-Have your assistant proofread (assuming you have time).
-Always print out to read (sounds like you are).
-Take a pass through the document with the hidden text/paragraph marker on. This will help show weird formatting and odd line breaks.
-Check the advanced settings in Word’s spell check – you can set it to check for two spaces after a period, for example.
-Read in clean and redline – the redline for me sometimes picks up changes I didn’t realize I’d made.
-For really long documents, I sometimes start reading half-way through so that I am fresher when reading the second half of the document.
-Get familiar with styles in Word. We have an add-in called numbering assistant, but you can do it with regular styles too. That will make updating TOC’s easier and if all the styles are set the same you can easily and automatically adjust formatting for all of that particular style level.
-Finally, see if your firm has editing software – we use something called Eagle Eye that at least checks for defined terms, out of order numbering, missing parentheses or brackets, etc.
Rainbow Hair
To the extent it’s possible, give your brain a break between finishing the work and proofing it. I know how hard that can be, but switch to some other work — a few hours is great (but often impossible) but even twenty minutes can be really helpful. Then when you come back to your first thing, your eyes will be a bit fresher to notice mistakes.
Anonymous
This is something I struggle with a lot at my job, which requires extreme attention to detail. I go slowly, take a break and then go back to it, and ask someone else to look over my work. Also I often catch things reading from actual paper rather than a screen.
cbackson
If you make the same mistake over and over again (like forgetting to run a final spellcheck), put a sticky note on your computer to remind yourself to do it.
Foolish Fox
Three things help me. 1) have someone else look at it, 2) have a checklist with things I often forget (for me that’s spacing between sentences, using short cites, and a few other things) and 3) lots of formatting presets – at the end I go through and make sure each section is using the right format preset.
Miss
Read it backwards to catch spelling errors and typos. Have a checklist for formatting. But honestly, nothing compares to having someone else read it. It’s tough to catch your own mistakes.
Anonymous
Make a checklist of the kinds of things you’re prone to miss, and then do a run through the document looking for and correcting each one and checking it off the list. Don’t try to see it all at once. So, just scan pages visually checking the justification — you’re not reading anything, just scanning for formatting. Then go back and ask your computer to search for everything that is ________ [insert whatever wording / formatting you often miss.] Pretty soon, looking for those items will become more automatic.
Also … if an insistence on being perfect is an issue with you, you’re going to drive yourself (and spouse / kids) crazy over the course of your life. Combat it by, outside of work, deliberately making some messes and mistakes, just so you can experience that it’s OK to mess up or do things partway. The world won’t end.
Anonymous
ALSO, i noticed myself getting better at it after 6 months, then again at 12 months, etc. My partner was super great at catching nits, and I realized, oh, after 30 years, you get REALLY great. You’ll get better at it, promise.
Themed Funerals
Help! I just found out that a funeral I’m attending is “casual tropical” themed to honor the deceased. I’m assuming all of the traditional funeral attire rules are out of the window, but I still want to be respectful. I have a tropical Lilly Pulitzer dress, but it’s neon and has cutouts. My only other tropical print dress shows a lot of cleavage, so that’s out too. These are my only two closet options, so it looks like I have two hours to shop before I hit the road after work.
Should I try to find a toned down floral dress? Or just find floral accessories? A coworker suggested I just throw a Tommy Bahama shirt over the black dress I had planned on wearing, but I feel like that will look like I put in zero effort. I know I’m probably way overthinking this, but I’ve never been to a themed funeral before.
C
What?!?! I respect that people grieve/celebrate life in different ways, but this is a bit much to ask. If I couldn’t figure out how to do tropical flowers that I was comfortable with in that context, I’d probably go with a brightly colored dress and/or bright accessories.
lsw
What about buying a bright corsage (or just, like, a bird of paradise and pin it to your dress) or flower for your hair? Do you have a brightly colored statement necklace or a bright scarf? I would personally feel more comfortable doing something like that. I bet you dollars to doughnuts there will be people there in regular funeral attire.
Anonymous
If I was in Hawaii, I’d just get a lei. If not, hair flower seems lovely in normal funeral attire.
NewRecruit
I was gonna suggest the same. Black dress/outfit and tropical accessory. Don’t overthink it.
Linda from HR
I think the point is to encourage people to find something laid back and fun, and letting them know they don’t need to adhere to the stuffy, traditional funeral attire. It’s a well intentioned idea that’s either being poorly communicated or inadvertently giving people additional headaches.
Themed Funerals
OP here–this, +10000. I didn’t mean to make it sounds like such a bothersome thing; it’s just that my friends and I are driving in from out of state and didn’t realize the theme until this morning. I don’t think they meant for the theme to be a bother, but rather a way for their family to avoid having to buy formal funeral attire in a rush. It was VERY unexpected, and I assume that the event is rather informal anyways since the actual funeral/burial is immediate family only. I should’ve mentioned that the actual event I’m attending is a memorial service.
It also just so happens to be my luck that I’ve recently moved and don’t have any clothes/accessories other than my business professional attire for work and some sundresses for going out. I knew I should’ve saved some of the costumey accessories I had from college.
Anon in NYC
Can you put on a white cardigan or blazer over the Lilly Pulitzer and hide the cutouts?
Pompom
Ann Taylor has a crap ton of tropical-looking stuff on sale right now.
….this is now what my funeral theme will be haha
CountC
Now I want mine to be 80s themed!! I am going to be cremated so I want everyone to take pics of them in their getup with my urn. HAHAHAHA The mental picture of this brings me so much joy.
Pompom
Right?! Think of all the possibilities!!!
tribble
Well that’s a new one. I would wear a black dress, espadrille wedges, and a bright colored bag and jewelry. Love the hair flower suggestion above. A big hat is also a possibility if it’s outdoors.
I feel bad for the men here. There are a lot of options for women to be tropical and funeral appropriate. Heck my favorite beach coverup is black. I can’t think of a similar middle ground for men’s attire. Sandals and a Tommy Bahama shirt with a suit?
Anonymous
I think the whole point of this dress code is to not wear black to the funeral.
Me too
With no disrespect to the deceased, what is with these ridiculous new dress codes for everything? Why can’t the dress theme of a wedding/funeral/party be: be comfortable and look appropriate? I nearly tore my hair out trying to meet a ridiculous dress code for a mountain wedding code. I ended up wearing something I already owned and it was FINE. Apparently nobody else knew how to interpret it, either, because everyone showed up in regular wedding attire.
I think your Lilly dress would be fine. A tasteful cutout is more conservative (i.e., more funeral appropriate) than a low-cut dress.
Anonymous
+1111 Honestly, I wouldn’t emergency shop in order to fit in with a themed funeral dress code. I’d just find something bright and create an outfit around it.
Anonymous
This. I would wear a black dress, grab a brightly colored purse, and throw a lei around my neck/put a flower in my hair. The person is dead, they won’t know what you wore and it’s crazy to buy something new for this IMO.
Anonymous BigLaw Associate
Yeah, I can’t even comprehend many “dress codes” anymore. For this one, I would wear this simple dark but not navy blue sheath dress I have (not black if that is what they are intending, but not necessarily inappropriate as regular funeral attire) and add a bright scarf that I could easily remove if it appeared people were wearing just normal funeral attire and ignoring the dress code.
IBR question
Hi stylish ladies. Anyone else doing PSLFP/ IBR here? I just started a new job and I’m so confused! To keep my payments lower, I am considering maxing out my pre-tax retirement contributions ($18,000). How will that impact me down the road? Has anyone done the research? Would so appreciate the advice.
Blonde Lawyer
There is a lot of discussion about those issues in the mister money mustache forum. Some really knowledgeable people have done the math to make the most of IBR and I think it includes maxing out retirement. You might want to scroll over there. If you can’t easily find the discussion, you could start a new one asking someone to link it for you. I think a lot of people have it saved. Be advised though, it’s a mixed bag of people over there and you might get some people calling you unethical for going for forgiveness rather than paying off what you borrowed in full if you can afford it. The conversations can get a little heated but there is good advice in there.
Anonymous
I am doing IBR and PSLF and hadn’t even thought about this, thanks for flagging! I don’t really see a downside– you’ll thank yourself later for all the retirement $. I suppose if the interest rate on your loans is much higher than your retirement returns (mine are about the same), and PSLF goes away, it might have been better to pay off the loans early, but even the Trump budget said it would grandfather in people in PSLF.
Anony Mouse
I’m in PSLFP. From everything I’ve read, yes, you want to max out all pre-tax contributions, as the IBR is calculated on your taxable income.
By the way, I don’t know if you’re married, but if you are, you may need to file separately from your spouse. Doing so will make your IBR payment amount lower. On the other hand, filing separately makes you ineligible for certain tax breaks (and having a Roth IRA), so you’ll want to do the math to see what makes the most sense for you. In the case of me and my spouse, who are both in the same tax bracket based on our individual incomes, pay several thousand dollars less overall by filing separately. I’ve seen people say you should do the math every year to be safe.
Anonymous
11:07 here– yes we file separately for that reason. DH makes way more than I do, but he’s on the ten-year payoff schedule so it made sense for us to file separately. The tax hit was a couple thousand for the year; my IBR payments went down by almost $1k a month. Definitely a huge benefit for us.
IBR question
I don’t know if you can file separately once you have started filing together, which we have been doing for a while. We also have two kids, which complicates stuff for us….
Anonymous
You can! We did it for a few years together before I did the math and realize how helpful it would be for us to do it separately. We have one kid and another on the way.
lucy stone
I do this. It no longer benefits me because my husband’s business has taken off (first world problem) but it saved me a few hundred in loan payments for a few years. We have to file together so we can itemize.
tardy
This is so stupid and basic, but what are your tips for getting out the door on time? I’ve been late to work almost every day recently (15-20 minutes). It’s so paradoxical, but I’ve been waking up about 45 minutes earlier because of my husband’s new schedule, and now feel like I have all the time in the world to do stuff in the morning. Does anyone else have that issue? I’m like, watering plants and marinating chicken and oops I missed my train again. Not helping that the NYC trains are so messed up! My schedule is such that leaving 20 minutes early doesn’t make a difference, but leaving 3 minutes late does. I know: just leave 3 minutes early. But every day, I don’t!
AIMS
The only thing that works for me is doing everything the night before – clothes/shoes picked out and pressed – and not opening the ipad to spend a “few minutes” online b/c that always runs over. My breakfasts are pretty streamlined at this point so that usually doesn’t become and issue but packing lunch can get out of hand even if I think, “I have five minutes to make a salad.”
It also helps to decide I am going to be early for work. I’m usually not, but planning for early will get me there on time.
Aunt Jamesina
Yup, I lay out my outfit and prep lunch and my work bag the night before. Breakfast is something fast and routine. If I’m going to do dinner prep, I try to do that as much as possible the night before, too. So with your marinating example, I would prep the marinade the night before and then put the chicken in while getting breakfast together. I’m such a zombie in the morning that I try to streamline everything I can or else I’ll forget or be late.
Anonymous
Sounds like you’ve identified the problem already: you’re puttering around instead of staying on task. Use a timer on your phone, either to give yourself 30 minutes of putter time, or to set an alarm for when you really have to get yourself in gear if you’re going to get out the door on time.
Anon
This. Get ready and do all the essential tasks first thing when you wake up, and then whatever time you have left over until you need to leave (to be on time) is how much time you have to putter around.
Linda from HR
You fall into the trap of thinking “I have all the time in the world! I don’t need to rush, I can take some time to ____.” Two tips:
1) Have a schedule. Say you’ll start and/or wrap up certain tasks at specific times of the morning.
2) Try to do all your household tasks in the evening, between getting home and going to bed. If you must do a certain task in the morning, like marinating meat for dinner, build it into the schedule (you’ll marinate the chicken at x:00, or no later than X:15).
That is, of course, assuming that some of what you’re doing is intended to kill those extra 45 minutes with something productive, instead of doing them because they have to be done in the morning or because it’s not possible or realistic to do them in the evening. If the latter is what’s happening, my apologies for misinterpreting what you wrote, I know many of us are very busy!
Macademia
I know what you mean! When I wake up at 5 I am extra late to work. I try to make myself choose between all the things I’d like to do in the morning–if I do a load of laundry then I don’t also do dinner prep. (I especially can’t do laundry and go for a run, somehow the timing is all off.) I also know I tend to leave at least 10 minutes later than I am aiming for so I try to build that in. This week the kiddo’s camp starts promptly at 815 and traffic is a mess. The driving is much better if I really leave by 730 and don’t let things slide until 745.
Can you give yourself a reward for getting to the train station early? You might think waiting for the train is unproductive time so you are trying to keep it as short as possible. Maybe you could get a coffee or read a book on your phone or send a silly text to a friend?
Sarabeth
Agree with this. Especially if internet distraction is a component, just tell yourself no internet until you are waiting at the train station.
Foolish Fox
I have several alarms. “wake up”, “go start getting ready”, “no really- you need to be ready soon”, “five minutes until you should walk out the door”, and “leave now or you’ll be late”.
I admit this is all over the course of an hour, but I get distracted and late easily.
Miss
Try the app 30/30. You can create a timer with your morning schedule and see how much time you have left to do things (i.e. 10 minutes of makeup, then 5 minutes packing up). It helped me keep on track and see how much time I was actually spending getting ready.
Wear Everything Challenge
I’m a little late posting this week because I’m traveling. How is the Wear Everyhing Challenge going for you?
Because I’ve been traveling a lot, I’ve been packing mainly my black neutrals. I don’t feel like business travel is a good time to experiment with new outfits.
I did step outside my comfort zone a last week and wear an outfit based in white, which I received compliments on …. I’m not sure though. I was paranoid about spilling on it all day!
What have you worn that’s been hanging forlorn in your closet?
Anonymous
I have gained a few pounds since last year, so I have been able to wear two sheath dresses this week that have been sitting in my get altered pile. They still don’t fit perfectly, but they don’t make me look like a schlub because they are too big. Interestingly, both dresses have polka dots – haha. Yesterday was navy with light blue dots and trim, today is grey with white dots.
Foolish Fox
I need some polka dot dresses !
Rainbow Hair
I’m hitting a rough patch, too. First with travel, and now with… well, I’ve worn everything that feels like a ‘staple’ at least once so here is the *~Challenge~* aspect I guess. Some of my dresses that are lovely are more appropriate for kicking-butt-at-a-meeting than sitting-quietly-in-the-office so they haven’t been worn yet. And two need to get hems fixed and DAMN IT the one I’m wearing today, because I just couldn’t think of what to wear, is one of the ones with the hem issued DAMN.
In conclusion, I wish I were doing better. But I did wear a gorgeous green dress yesterday, and I was glad this challenge encouraged me to stop ‘saving’ it (for what?!)
Wear Everything Challenge
Scotch tape for the hem today and the dry cleaner/ tails r in your to-do list for this weekend!
Rainbow Hair
Yes! Maybe I’ll do drycleaner on the way to my coffee date with my toddler. I need to make drycleaners part of the routine again. (“Again” as in “after the past 3 years of basically never going”)
Anonymous
I am wearing a forlorn shirt dress. It has odd detailing on the sleeves that is supposed to be stylish or distinctive or something to pep up a basic shirt dress I’d suppose but this is the thing that keeps me from wearing it. It is otherwise ideal for wearing to work in the heat.
I read the Magic of Tidying Up (or whatever it’s full title is) and this is not a piece I love but it’s supremely practical. I am ok not making my socks uncomfortable in balls but not ok with throwing out something practical I don’t love so I am probably failing to embrace the main point of that book.
I’m in the burbs and have enough closet space but I do wish I was doing better at purging.
Anon
A dark green shell that for some reason I only wore in winter with a specific matching green winter sweater- no reason not to wear it with a light cardigan in summer. And wore some abandoned wider leg pants- probably not so stylish but super comfy on days I’m just sitting in the office. I have a small capsule-ish wardrobe so it’s good to add something different once in awhile. Started a donation pile too!
Aquae Sulis
I downloaded the Stylebook app at the start of the challenge, and, so far, I’ve managed to not repeat a look; I’m going to keep it going as long as I can!
Helpless Shopper
About to start a new job in New York and looking for sleek work bag suggestions – want a tote or brief case that can carry a laptop, is leather, has comfortable handles I can put over my shoulder to carry the bag under my arm, has a zipper on top to close, has an outside pocket for cell phone and keys, and has feet. Willing to spend up to around $200ish and don’t like Michael Kors, which seems to be all the department stores have – any suggestions?
Pompom
Hmm, no outside pocket on this one but people tend to love this bag: https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/91245?page=exchange-street-tote&csp=a&feat=38451-d-recsdormant
I carry this and it’s fun! Not leather, but checks the boxes for me: https://www.stelladot.com/shop/en_us/p/bags/shop-all/hudson-tote-medium-black-perf
Tumi
The traditional Tumi tote in saffiano leather. I have flirted with other totes but always go back to the Tumi. I guess we are married. :)
They’re made for travel so perfect for what you want.
Anon
Check out the Always On Regan Tote by Rebecca Minkoff.
SwissMiss
I have the Tumi Sinclair small Camila in black and it checks all your boxes. The shoulder strap isn’t the most comfortable I’ve ever used, but it doesn’t cut into my shoulder either. And it’s fairly lightweight for the size– I can just barely fit my 15-inch MacBook but it’s a struggle to zip.
SwissMiss
Edit: mine isn’t the small. It’s the larger size.
Anonymous
Help! My mom recently bought a condo that is great except for one thing: the first floor is garden-level, and she has a great little patio/garden at the entrance that is down one flight of steps from the condo courtyard. She has tons of plants and it looks really nice, but there are so. many. flies. in the summer, I think because of the dampness of being slightly below-ground. Does anyone have ideas for something that will really work? she has tried the sticky fly traps that you hang, but they are unsightly and fill up really quickly (and also we don’t love the thought of a poor fly struggling to death; would rather something quick). I feel bad because this is preventing her from enjoying the little patio. TIA!
New Tampanian
Look into plants that detract flies and mosquitos. For example, lavender is known to repulse mosquitos.
New Tampanian
errr… repel. Not repulse.
emeralds
I’d be okay with either. Our backyard is almost unusable right now without long sleeves and DEET., and I hadn’t thought about planting things–might be buying some lavender plants this weekend. I’ll try anything at this point.
Beth
There’s a citronella geranium as well!
Anonymous
The is a bug spray that you can hook up to your garden hose and basically hose down all plant life. It’s safe for pets after it dries. I use this in our backyard a couple of times per season and it’s very effective.
Also look for other sources of attraction for flies – pet waste? trash cans on alley nearby? and try to address if possible.
tardy
Rescue Non-Toxic Disposable Fly Trap – you can get it on Amazon. This thing is absolutely foul – put it in the back where you don’t go near it – but it works. We have dogs and chickens in a small urban yard and this has been the only solution.
Pro-tip: take it down and toss it before winter! Ours froze and then exploded hundreds of thousands of dead flies all over the yard. My husband is traumatized.
CountC
I know I shouldn’t laugh at the exploding trap, but I totally did!
Echo
+1 Sorry for laughing, but that made my afternoon. : )
Miss
Use a portable fan to keep bugs away when she’s outside. If she doesn’t like the air blowing directly on her, she can point it away, but for a small space, most fans should create enough wind to blow insects away. Odorless and creates a nice breeze.
Anonymous
Add a pitcher plant or other carnivorous plant. I think pitcher plants do better in shade than in sunlight.
Anonymous
I grew up poor and I ended up being the first one of my siblings to finish university, find employment and eventually started my own small business which is quickly growing. My younger sibling followed a similar path to me in university, and threatened to quit in her last year so I told her to finish out her last year and that I would employ her. I’ve paid her damage deposit, for her phone and some other expenses like suits and shoes etc. She works for me at a 9-5 type job and is doing fine.
She has been with me for about a year and remains unhappy. Lots of talk about leaving to live in a larger city where a number of her friends live, giving up her professional credentials and getting some kind of administrative support job (I don’t think she understands that getting full time work in those kinds of areas is competitive and the pay is low while cost of living in big centers is high). She’s looked at entry level work in our profession in the city she wants to move to and it is very competitive, it pays incredibly badly and would require her to pay her transfer fees.
This is her first job ever so I think to some extent she just hates working. I’ve encouraged her to apply for similar jobs to the one she has with me at other companies in town to see if she likes working for other people or in a different setting better. I am concerned she is going to make a quick decision and end up working part time as a barista somewhere. Looking for a Canadian place to refer her to for some career counselling or something.
Thoughts?
Anonymous
Does she want your help? Has she asked for advice? If not, you should let her sort this one out on her own. I would say almost all people have worked in a job where they have been underpaid and/or they hated. This is not unusual. She needs to figure out what she wants to do and how she can live on whatever paycheck she brings in. She’s an adult, please treat her like one.
Anon
You know the answer. You have to let her fail if that’s what she’s going to do. You have to make it clear you’re not going to pick up the pieces if that happens. Everyone has to learn their own lessons. Let the baby bird fly.
anon
+3 to let her sort this out on her own and this is the time in her life to do it. It doesn’t sound like she has dependents or is in danger of living out of a car. Better that she learn some of these lessons now while the stakes are relatively low and some floundering is acceptable than in a decade when she’s still looking to you for rescue because she didn’t develop the self-reliance skills.
Senior Attorney
Agree with all of the above. This is her life and for goodness sake, “working part time as a barista somewhere” is far from a fate worse than death!
JuniorMinion
I get it, as I am the only real “professional” in my family and I have a brother who is not making smart choices right now. My mom is a receptionist at a local office and my dad is a salesman who went to college in his 40s so I understand the pressure you must feel as the person who has “levelled up” so to speak and you know (if as I am you are from a more uncertain financial background) that you can make financial choices in your 20s that can have lasting and far ranging effects.
Unfortunately, as I learned with my brother, you have to let people make the choices they are going to make. Even when you think those choices are going to be financially devastating to them for years to come. I’d say start out by setting some boundaries and follow through with them as well as impress this on your sister.
AnonForThis
Agree with all the others but chiming in to say I totally see where you’re coming from as a big sister.
I have a younger brother and his reasons for disliking his first job included things like “they expect me to come in too early like by 8:30” and “they dont allow people to work from home often”. Even “they have happy hours when someone is retiring or leaving and expect me to join and I dont want to”.
Many many times I tried to counsel him that these were not big issues and this sounded like a way better workplace than the one I was in (had a bullying manager at the time). But he left and then left his next job and after a while he is settled into a job he somewhat likes, but it’s only been 4 months so let us see.
Gotta step back.
Rothys
Can she take a trip to the new city to apply for jobs and talk to people and see if she can line something up before she moves?
pasties!
I recall that every time there is a bra discussion on here, a few people share that they’ve left bras entirely in favor of pasties as part of their everyday wardrobe. Can you share your favorite brands and styles?
I’m hoping for something reusable (thus silicone, I think) and appropriate for a small frame with pale skin to wear under light-colored or delicate (silk) blouses and dresses. The N*ppies brand on Amaz*n seems highly rated, but I want to make sure it’s worth the money. And any other tips for this transition would be welcome!
Anon
I haven’t found silicone ones that don’t slip off with sweat yet – I love these though and they are cheap enough to make it worth it
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013TQ8GCA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_dp_T1_VC3BzbP06TGNQ
Bad friend
I need a gut check. A good friend’s grandmother went into the hospital yesterday and probably won’t make it. Friend is spending every minute by her side, including overnight. As soon as friend told me, I asked what I could do to help. Friend asked me to stay overnight in the hospital with her and grandma. I said I’m happy to bring toiletries/change of clothes/dinner/etc. but I can’t spend the entire night, I’m crazy busy at work and I can’t take the day off or be exhausted at the office. Friend is now furious with me. Her parents are getting into town today so she told me I’m no longer needed and she doesn’t want to talk to me. I don’t know what to do here. Am I terrible?
Anon
You’re not terrible but you have to realize your friend is going through a very tough time emotionally and is not necessarily acting logically with you. You’re not going to win this argument on logic. Just give her space and be there for her when her grandmother dies.
Monday
No, you’re not. This is just a really hard situation, and you should give her her space for a while.
When you’re in a crisis with a terminally ill relative, your judgment and emotional self-regulation are shot. When my Dad was dying, I got extremely angry with friends who I didn’t feel were there for me, and cut some off for a while. Later I gained a better perspective on it. What she asked of you is a lot, but try to put yourself in her shoes. It’s very hard when someone offers to help but then says no to your request for what would actually be helpful. I had dozens of people who said “let me know if there’s anything I can do” but never contributed in any way–but it’s not really anyone’s fault. Good intentions all around sometimes leave some needs unmet.
Again, I am NOT saying you needed to sleep at the hospital or are in the wrong. I’m just saying she isn’t herself right now, feels vulnerable, and is disappointed because she’s desperate for help or support. She doesn’t have it in her to manage emotions or relationships appropriately. My guess is that you will remain friends and she will understand your position after she gets some rest and gets a handle on her stress and grief.
Anonymous
No, you are not terrible. That was an unreasonable request. Do something else to show support and satisfy your other responsibilities.
RNSF
For what its worth, the hospital staff most likely prefers that overnight visitors be restricted to very close immediate family members.
lawsuited
You’re not terrible.
Saying “tell me what I can do to help you” does imply a certain amount of “I’ll do whatever you need” so I understand why she was taken aback when you then told her you weren’t willing to do what she said she needed. Next time, offer specific help that you are are willing to do, like “can I bring you dinner at the hospital, or a change of clothes from home?” and you’ll either be taken up on it or not, but probably won’t be asked to do something completely different like staying overnight at the hospital.
Anonymous
+1.
Anonymous
Your friend is not your friend. Dump her.
Anonymous
Good grief. Her grandmother is dying. Even if OP’s friend were acting like a complete b!tch (and I don’t think she is – I think it was a reasonable request but her reaction to OP saying no was over the top) can’t you cut her a break and assume she’s not acting logically because she’s in so much emotional pain? If a year from now she is still harassing OP about how she wasn’t there for her in the right way, then it’s a different story. But people who are in the throes of a loss say and do all sort of crazy things and should be treated with compassion.
Never too many shoes...
Gently, friend, I think you are in the wrong here.
You say she is a good friend, you asked what you could do for her in this difficult time and when she told you, you then did not follow through. And you could have. Unless you are a surgeon or airline pilot, being a little tired at work for one day is not that big of a deal. I can fully understand her hurt.
Next time, offer something specific that you think you can do and then do it. Don’t make an open-ended offer and then refuse to do what is asked. That is, quite honestly, mean.
Anonymous
I tend to agree with this. But my love language is “showing up” and the only people I count as really close friend are people who would do anything for me, and I for them (perhaps not surprisingly, I don’t have many close friends but I value quality over quantity). I would be hurt if I was in this situation and one of those people asked what they could do for me and when I asked if they could spend the night, they said no.
OP
Fair enough but I’m going to push back on the assumption “And you could have.” When I say work is crazy busy, I mean I’ve been billing 300 hours a month for the past 6 months, which friend knows very well. Missing a(nother) night’s sleep is not a matter of being “a little tired at work for one day.” Maybe I should’ve done it anyway though.
Anonymous
Why do you think you would miss another night’s sleep? I’ve stayed overnight in the hospital before and while you’re probably not going to get 10 hours of super great quality REM sleep, it’s nothing like pulling an all-nighter. You will sleep.
Aunt Jamesina
Oof. Even when I was a patient with an actual bed in a hospital, I don’t think I’ve ever slept for more than 45 minute spurts with all of the noise, lights, and checks by nurses.
Anonymous
I think I would have left work out of the explanation it because it sounds like you value work more (even if that is not true). Next time just say, “I’m not comfortable with that” or “the hospital says no” and bring dinner/breakfast instead.
January
So, I didn’t really agree with those who said you *should* have spent the night in the hospital with her – I don’t think I would have been comfortable with that myself, and I wouldn’t have offered to do it, either. (Bring you dinner, a change of clothes, your phone charger? I’m all over it). But I do think that leaving work out of the explanation might have been the better option. In any case, if you give her some space for now, I think you can probably work it out later.
Never too many shoes...
OP – if your friend knows how much you have been working and *still* asked you, don’t you think that speaks to just how much she wanted to you to be there with her?
I am sorry, but I still think you should have done it. But I also place a high emphasis on showing up, so maybe you should take my feelings as somewhat outside the norm.
Rothys
Give her some space. People act unreasonable when they are in tragic situations, and need some flexibility from those of us who are not under the same kind of stress.
Rainbow Hair
Sort of a survey question: how much stuff do you do outside of work, particularly if you have kids?
My background: I’m finally emerging from some pretty dark clouds of depression and I suddenly, like for the first time in *years*, feel like I can DO THINGS! But then I worry, am I doing an unreasonable number of things?
Like this week is/was:
– Monday, therapy (except I forgot because it was a deviation from routine, but generally it means I miss bedtime and H covers)
– Tuesday, bake a cake at home with kiddo! (get to do bedtime!)
– Wednesday, exercise class (miss bedtime, H covers)
– Thursday, double date (miss bedtime, babysitter)
– Friday, family activity at home (get to do bedtime!)
– Saturday, morning drive across town w/ fam to see out-of-town friends, evening date (miss bedtime, babysitter)
– Sunday, family gathering at our house (get to do bedtime!)
…some weeks therapy is thrown in there too, or meeting up with a girlfriend for boba, or going to this women’s beer club (and for all of those, H covers bedtime)…
I am not sure if I actually feel bad about it, or feel like I should feel bad… I’m torn between “this is the kind of adult I want to be!” and “I don’t want to just be a blip on my kid’s radar screen.” (Also I can’t really afford all the dates/babysitters…)
So anyway, would love to hear how y’all balance being kickass women who Do Things and feeling like you’re sufficiently present at home/with your families?
lawsuited
My kid is 3.5 months and I do exactly nothing outside of going to work and being at home with him. Le sigh. I do use lunch hours to go to the doctor, have lunch with a friend, get my eyebrows waxed, mail a birthday card, etc. for a bit of “me” time.
SC
I do very little outside of work and taking care of kids. Honestly, I’d like to do more, particularly regular exercise (which DH would completely support by doing bedtime alone, etc). DH and I go out and miss bedtime probably 2-3 times per month, and I go to some sort of happy hour or networking event 1-2 times per month. Other than that, I leave work around 5:30 and go straight home and help with the evening and bedtime routine. Then DH and I make our dinner and relax either solo (in which case, I read) or together (playing video games).
alexisfaye
“I am not sure if I actually feel bad about it, or feel like I should feel bad… I’m torn between “this is the kind of adult I want to be!” and “I don’t want to just be a blip on my kid’s radar screen.” (Also I can’t really afford all the dates/babysitters…)”
This is me. But I (we?) cannot be our moms. I’m divorced, I work full time, and I’m trying to do things I find meaningful (summer sucks for this) both with and without my kids. I attempt to make this work by working out in the mornings (my gym opens at 5:30). That way I can get home at a reasonable hour and be present for kids. I’m lucky that my oldest can be in charge for an hour or two, but I still think I’m going to break down and hire a part time nanny when school starts to be in charge of homework, driving to activities, and starting dinner. I *HATE* getting home and nagging/fighting.
I think that whatever conclusion you come to, you have to be generous with yourself. If a girlfriend told you her schedule, would you judge or support? You deserve the same reaction.
Rainbow Hair
Thank you for saying this.
I’ve started doing “exercising” with kiddo on weeknights. I load up something from darebee and do it while she gets in my way, imitates me, or asks “why you doing that mommy?” incessantly.
I would love to come up with some sort of thing kiddo and I could do together that would count as socializing for me… but all those things happen during the workday, so it’s not on the table.
Anonymous
I am self employed as is husband and we use daycare from 8-5:30 5 days a week. Every now and then we do early pickup but it’s unusual.
I probably do about ten hours a week of volunteer stuff outside my work in the middle of the night. Think working on probono files kind of stuff. I go to the gym 2-3 times a week (aiming for more) but during the workday. I read a lot (some during the work day).
Kid has about 5 hours of organized programs a week (soccer, swimming kind of stuff) and we go to the park every day during the week and twice on the weekend.
I feel bad a lot about not doing more for my kid. I think you and I are probably doing fine though.
Rainbow Hair
If I could work out during the day, that would help a lot. But it’s legit not feasible with my job.
How do you take kid to the park every weekday??? After 5:30 daycare pickup? When do you do dinner and bathing?
Anonymous
Do you do baths every day? Our pediatrician told me that toddlers and pre-pubescent kids only need to be bathed twice a week or if they get sweaty or muddy. Once puberty hits they obviously need to shower or bathe daily but they’re self-sufficient at that point.
Rainbow Hair
Not every day, but every two or three days (she’s kind of gross and filthy, esp. in the summer). But still, daycare pickup at 5:10 –> home at 5:40 –> dinner until 6:15 –> [something] –> bedtime routine starts at 7:15. I guess there’s room in there for a 30 minute park visit on non-bath days, yeah.
Sarabeth
I mean, it also depends on how close the park is. We go to the park every day because it is literally across the street from our house. When we lived further away, we walked around the block instead. Sub in whatever activity lets you chill with your kid for 30-45 minutes most easily. If your kid likes baths, then maybe bathtime counts! I still get in the bath with my daughter and we splash around for 30 minutes, so even if we don’t get to do anything else on bath nights, we’ve spent that time connecting.
Lots to Learn
I’m not judging, but that does seem like a good bit to be away from your kid. As I read the schedule, you’re hanging out with him/putting him to bed 3 nights a week or less. That wouldn’t be enough for me. I am home with my kids all but 1 or maybe 2 nights a week. I moved all exercise/regular events to other times – during the workday or on the weekends, because my priority was being home with them in the evenings, since I work full-time. I have no problem missing for the once-a-month book club or occasional parties or dates or working late, but wouldn’t do it on a regular basis. But maybe because I’m an introvert and honestly preferred being home to most other activities?
Rainbow Hair
Yeah, if I didn’t feel like it was maybe too much, I wouldn’t have posted. But also, I’m extroverted and get sad when I don’t have contact outside of my husband and kid.
I guess part of my frustration is that there are basically three time periods when things can happen:
(1) weeknights before 8 pm (miss bedtime)
(2) weeknights after 8 pm (sure I can do things, but really not much between 8 pm and 10 pm when I need to go to bed)
(3) weekends (where I try to max out kid time)
Like, the weekly beer club thing I sometimes go to late so I don’t miss bedtime, so it’s like an hour-ish of socializing — better than nothing but I’m hardly making besties. Exercise classes just don’t start after 8 pm (and exercising that late doesn’t work well for me). Sometimes I can schedule therapy at 8 pm, so I don’t miss bedtime.
Maybe my expectations are too high. It seems like so many women here do yoga and have a hobby and have friends and go out to eat and work more than I do (I only work 8-5!) and I just don’t understand the logistics.
Anon
Would people judge a man with that schedule? Is your husband fine with it? Does your kid seem to be thriving? You do you.
Never too many shoes...
YES to this. Yes.
This is just such a perfect example of our internalized misogyny. Men who work late and exercise and network are “dedicated”, “looking out for their future” and “taking care of themselves”. Women “would rather be swilling cocktails than being with their babies”.
If it feels right for you, Rainbow, it IS right. If your family is thriving (and that includes YOU), then all is well with the world.
Sarabeth
One small thing – where possible, I like to plan my kid-free nights for weekends. By 7 pm on a Saturday, I have spent all day with my kids, we are not going to miss each other if I go out. On a Tuesday night, it’s a different story – missing bedtime means that I am giving up my most significant interactions with my kids for the day. I try to not to miss a weekday bedtime more than once a week.
I think it also depends on what your mornings are like. My kids sleep relatively late, which is great! But means that we don’t have a lot of time for play in the mornings. If your kids wake up at 5 and you get to play with them for a solid hour because you don’t have to leave the house until 7:30, then maybe the evening time is less crucial.
Rainbow Hair
Sarabeth, thank you for that concrete advice. Missing bedtime on weekdays feels so much worse than missing it on weekends, it’s true!
Anonymous
Please don’t compare yourself with strangers on the internet. You can’t see the whole of their lives, you don’t know their energy levels or motivations for doing all their activity.
The part that concerns me about what you’ve written is that you seem to be doing it in reaction to years of depression, and you can’t afford it. I suspect there is a balance you’ll find as the pendulum moves back a little more toward center.
Rainbow Hair
That’s probably a good insight. It feels so good that doing things besides working and surviving even feels *possible* that maybe I’m going too far.
And you’re right, maybe the comparisons I’m making are unfair to myself.
NewRecruit
I’m an introvert too- I totally prefer being at home and hanging out with my kid. But with that being said, I don’t think that you should beat yourself up if this amount of “me” time keeps you sane and from up under the depression clouds. Your kid definitely would prefer bedtime 3-4 nights a week with “happy mommy” as opposed to 7 nights a week with the depressed version. My suggestion is to allow for flexibility from the ‘schedule’ and don’t stretch the budget too far on “dates and babysitters” that you can’t afford.
Anonymous
Gently, I think it’s a lot of time away from your kid. I don’t know any couples that get away for a date night with a babysitter more than once a week and for most people in my social circle it is more like 1-2 times per month. So twice a week seems high.
But I think the bigger thing is that your H is covering bedtime alone two nights per week. Is he ok with that? Either you’re not reciprocating and covering bedtime so he can go out (which means he’s doing almost twice as much evening childcare as you are) or you are reciprocating and giving him two nights off per week, which means your kiddo only has both parents at home one night per week. Neither of those seems ideal and I feel like if a woman posted her about her husband going out twice per week alone and sticking her with five evenings of childcare per week versus his three, we’d all be up in arms and ready to burn him at the stake.
Can you exercise in the morning or over the lunch hour? Can therapy be carved out of work hours? It’s a medical issue so you should be able to use leave to cover it, although I realize that might involve going into specifics you don’t want to discuss at the office.
Rainbow Hair
I think this week is a bit unusual because it’s my husband’s birthday (Saturday), and a sort of “goodbye” thing for a friend moving out of town (Thursday). Normally I’d say we go on a date once or twice a month.
Husband stays home (that is, doesn’t work) while kid is at daycare, so to my mind he has at least 3-4 hours a day to himself to do whatever, after house-stuff is done. Like, I know he swims laps every day while I’m working and kid is at school. About once a week he hikes with a neighbor and then goes out to lunch, etc. And then sometimes he takes himself to the movies, but after bedtime. Do I still need to give him nights off childcare? Maybe.
Therapy can’t happen during the work day, nor can exercise.
I dunno, I do these things to try to be a healthy, good mom, but they take away from my momming time, and I don’t know how to balance that.
Anonymous
Oh I was assuming you both worked full time. If husband stays home and kid is in daycare then I agree it’s different and makes more sense that he would do more of the evening childcare.
I would probably still try to move exercise to a morning (a weekend morning if necessary) because I think bedtime is a worse thing to miss than just a random hour in the middle of the day. But I don’t really exercise (beyond family hikes and stuff like that) so I’m coming from the perspective of someone who sees exercise as a miserable chore that takes me away from things I enjoy. If you love it and see it as a hobby, I can see why you’d prioritize it.
SC
It’s normal to have busy weeks and less busy weeks, so look at the averages. I posted above that DH and I tend to go out 2-3 times per month. But it just so happens that this month, we went out to see a family member in a play one Saturday night and had a babysitter put Kiddo to bed. The next weekend, my parents were in town, so we had a babysitter and went out to dinner with them Friday night. The Sunday night, my parents offered to babysit so DH and I could have a date night. That’s 3 nights out in 8 days. But it’ll also end up being 3 nights out in July because, even if we wanted to go out again, our budget is tapped for the month.
Rainbow Hair
Thanks. Maybe I’m making too much out of a busy week (…month). I have plenty of boring weeks in the winter. It doesn’t help that this comes on the tail of four nights out of town for work. [bracing myself for comments about how i am definitely a terrible mom if I do this AND travel for work!]
Anon
Why is kid in daycare if husband stays home? Would you feel less guilty if kid was home too during the day?
Anonymous
No kids here – so grain of salt, but I grew up with a mother who stayed home (left a great medical career, too) with my sister & I until we both were in college – so she’s been back at work for 4 years now. I would have given anything to have seen her model healthy, adult relationships with other people we weren’t related to…or her own hobbies…or anything that didn’t involve my dad or my sister & I. Now, she’s struggling to define what/who she is now they’re empty nesters & grandkids are years away. I’m also in therapy because a lot of my social anxiety/bad boundary setting behaviors were learned because she wouldn’t put herself first…ever. There’s a balance there, but as someone who grew up with a very extreme opposite, please, have parts of yourself for yourself/hobbies/friends and not just your child/spouse.
Rainbow Hair
Thank you. I grew up with a similar mom, who at times homeschooled some of us… so I certainly don’t have a model for how to balance loving/caring for family with being one’s own person.
I love that kiddo sees me going to work, but work isn’t exactly deeply fulfilling to me as a person. Especially since I really do *like* to have friends.
Aunt Jamesina
I have the other perspective: my mother worked and had many hobbies while I grew up, and it was really empowering to see her work hard and enjoy her own personal life. Now that she’s retired, she has so much going on and so many friends, and it’s really cool to see how she’s cultivated a life that matches her values and interests.
Rainbow Hair
OK that made me tear up a little. I really want my kid to see me like this. I mean, I want her to know that I love her and that our family is the most important thing to me, but I want her to think that can coexist with me being a fully actualized person (or whatever the correct way to say that is).
Never too many shoes...
You said it perfectly. And you are setting a great example for your baby, Rainbow. Truly.
Anonymous BigLaw Associate
I have a lot of hobbies outside work (if you consider food and exercise hobbies), but I am not really into group activities-huge introvert. Either before or after work, I work out 2 to maybe 3 days during the week. On weekends, I do longer more involved things like surfing, cycling, etc. because my husband can watch the kids while I do so. I am also into cooking, canning, and gardening, and squeeze that in when I can. I may cook every night on a not busy week, or I may prep a lot ahead of time on the weekend. Two of my kids are old enough to do some of these activities with me. I can’t wait until they are old enough to watch their younger siblings so my husband and I can easily go out and do stuff on the weekends together (without them at least some of the time)!
Anon
I’m married without kids and live/work/hang out in the city, which makes it easier to fit a lot of stuff into one evening. My evening schedule last week:
M: made dinner for me and my cousin and then we met up with H to go see a movie
T: saw a play with H, stopped by a friend’s place and the three of us got a late dinner
W: workout, dinner with a friend, came home and hung out with H/did laundry, etc.
Th: played on my sports team, got drinks after, went on a late evening walk with H
F: workout, met up with my sister and did a bunch of prep for having people over on Saturday
S: hosted a BBQ, walked around a bit, then went to a friend’s bday dinner
S: went to a lunch at a friend’s place, had some family over for a late afternoon session on my patio, went to see a movie with H
AnonForThis
I have two kids, plus your DH is the stay at home parent (we work fulltime) so a bit different circumstance from you.
However, my rule/learning is that I can have ONE hobby in addition to busy job, home management, marriage care and being present for my kids. (When baby is below two and not sleeping all that well, it may be zero.)
That means:
– my hobby combines exercise with an interest and socialization (group exercise class type hobby with good friends) because ONE hobby
– I do this hobby 3 times per week of which 2x is after kiddo’s bedtime, third is weekend morning
– This means I sacrifice general TV watching, reading (my second biggest hobby but it ebbs and flows since I can’t usually make time for it), girls night outs and so on.
– This also means I hardly get time to cook (which I also loved), or garden, and outsource it along with home maintenance
– Weekends are high on the family and kids component and to echo the poster above, it feels easier to get away weeknights (after a day full of dealing with loud, active kids) and I need a break anyway so we do a date night then. Second or additional date night of the week is conditional on kids being with family (i.e. grandma).
Macademia
I appreciate what you said here about one hobby. In addition to my full time job I work 10-15 hours a week at church (Tuesday nights and Sunday mornings at a minimum, often Saturdays or other times) and find I don’t have time to do anything beyond jobs, home, marriage and parenting besides exercise. It is a rare treat to do things with other adults. And we just have one kid!
anon.gov
I really think it’s about the quality of time spent, not the amount. For example I was a stay at home mom for a while, was stressed to the max around my kids, spent a lot of the time on my phone worrying about what facebook mommies thought of me and not really actively engaged with my kids. I became bitter and jealous that my working friends were being greeted with hugs and kisses when they got home, whereas I dealt with whining all day.
It is far more important to treat your depression than to spend whatever x prescribed time with kids to be considered a good mom. Because the alternative is them growing up without a mom.
Anonymous
I agree with other posters that you can’t really be judged on all this. Well, I mean you can be judged by others but it really shouldn’t matter. It’s about you, your sanity and what works for your family. I felt guilty spending time away from my family so I spent evenings taking care of my kids because my husband worked evenings. I felt so drained and just dead inside. Absolutely no downtime. I’ve now hired a sitter every 4 nights a week (in addition to daycare) plus daytime Saturday and I feel 1000% better. Before I actually thought I had post partum depression, but it turned out just to be a failure to adjust
and acknowledge my limitations. I’m actually happy for you that you know you’re an extrovert and know you value interaction with friends. Do what you need to do to be emotionally healthy.
Casper
If you had accepted a new job, then your current job made a counter offer that made you decide to stay, What is the best way to tell the new job? Is email ok for this? How should it be worded?
Anonymous
I wouldn’t email. I think this deserves a phone call to whoever gave you the offer. I don’t think it’s a big deal – this kind of thing happens all the time; all you have to say (if you’re not trying to negotiate further with the new employer) is something re changed circumstances and a decision to stay at your current job.
The only way I’d email is if this was a REALLY detached process where you only met your would be boss in 1 interview and never spoke again and got an offer via email from HR. But if you’ve gone through 2-3 rounds, met people you’d be working with and one of them called you with an offer that you accepted – I think it deserves a call.
Anonymous
Just going to counsel you that taking a counteroffer is usually a really bad idea. You’ve already shown you’re ready to leave; taking a counteroffer just allows your current employer to replace you on their own timeframe. I’ve seen it happen repeatedly. I’m not sure what the current statistics are, but I think that something like 85% of people who accept a counteroffer are gone from the company 18 months later – they either leave because the issues that caused them to job-hunt didn’t get fixed; or the company fires them when they find a suitable replacement. Please think carefully before turning down the other offer in favor of your counteroffer. I’ve rarely seen that choice work out for the best in the long term.
Anonymous
Yep. Though it seems like OP’s mind is made up and this is just an email vs. phone question.
Anonymous
+1 million. My old boss explained this to me and told me never to take a counteroffer for this reason.
Anonymous
Been there, done this, agree.
That said: phone call.
Anonymous
I’m happy with all the counter offers I’ve accepted. I make more money, and got more leeway to do things I wanted to do. It can work out.
Counter counter
I accepted a counteroffer about 5 years ago from my then-current law firm. I had actually accepted an offer at another firm that paid a lot more, and my firm countered because they wanted me to stay. Not only did I get a raise, my group thanked me because they’d been trying to increase salaries for my practice area for years and my offer was enough to get salaries for the entire group bumped.
And now I’m a partner at the original firm (the one that countered) and things are great. So it can be OK.
Pen and Pencil
I have a $100 gift card burning in my pocket to Nordstrom’s but don’t particularly need anything. I am about to go on vacation to San Diego, but it doesn’t necessarily need to be for that. What would you buy?
Fishie
Jewelry or perfume.
SC
I can always find accessories I want, so I would look at shoes, purses, sunglasses, and jewelry. If you really don’t want anything new, buy makeup or fancy face cream or perfume since it’ll get used up.
Rainbow Hair
I would want a cute clutch/cross body bag — something that would hold my phones and wallet but not much else, that I could bring to dinner/networking things.
That or a fake leather jacket.
emeralds
I’d save it until there was something I really wanted that would be outside of my usual price point.
Anonymous
+1. Assuming it doesn’t expire, don’t spend it on something you don’t really want or need.
Anonymous
Maybe stock up on hostess/oh cr@p I forgot it’s X’s birthday gifts? My mom had a little stash of things like this in her closet (mostly from HomeGoods, but Nordstrom’s works!).
Jo March
Not sure if anyone else is having this issue, but I subscribe to the blog via Bloglovin’ and as of yesterday, the new posts no longer show up so wanted to flag that for Kat in case multiple readers are experiencing it.