Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Phoebe Knitted Dress

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I don’t know what it is, but I can’t get enough of the emerald pieces that I’m seeing everywhere this spring. I think it’s a universally flattering color and it’s perfect for transitioning from cold weather to warm. This sweater dress looks great for that awkward time of year when you’re just DONE with wearing tights but there may still be a bit of a chill in the air. (Where I live, that actually covers most of spring, but your mileage may vary!)

The dress is $170 and available in sizes 2–20/22. It also comes in a wine/navy print. Phoebe Knitted Dress

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Sales of note for 2/7/25:

  • Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 25% off your $175+ purchase — and $30 of full-price pants and denim
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 15% off
  • Boden – 15% off new season styles
  • Eloquii – 60% off 100s of styles
  • J.Crew – Extra 50% off all sale styles
  • J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything including new arrivals + extra 20% off $125+
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 40% off one item + free shipping on $150+

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

378 Comments

  1. I am going to lose my GD mind, working from home near a husband with raging ADHD. No, I can’t concentrate when you blast wall-shaking music. No, I can’t concentrate when you use the foyer to play racquetball. No, I can’t concentrate when you chase the cat around and break my potted plants. Sit down, hold still, and shut up!

    1. This reminds me about my ex, tho yours’ sounds worse. How in the world did you ever marry this schlub? I can understand mabye inital attraction, like I had with my Alan, resulting in me haveing s-x with him, but for me to MARRY him? No way HOZE. Since you took the opposite route, and appear to be stuck with him — for now — tell him that you need to work, and if he doesn’t stop with the noise, racketball and chasing the cat, NOW etc., tell him that you will withhold what he wants and needs most at night. That is the ONLEY way to keep him at bay. His needs will dictate that he comply, and after a night or two without it, he will come crawling back like my ex. You must stick to your guns on this one and do NOT reward him at night unless he does what YOU want during the day. FOOEY!

      1. He provides supplemental caregiving for a parent, but the dementia facility is on lockdown and he’s not allowed in.

    2. Same. everyone’s saying there’s going to be a baby boom in 9 months and I’m just like “…how?!” My husband is annoying the h*ll out of me and I want him to stay far, far away from me.

        1. Haha. DH and I had 2 fights last night, both in front of my FIL. I’m back in the office today.

      1. Omg WHAT – a baby boom? I am a young person myself. My mental health is at an all-time low and my existential anxiety is increasing by the hour. Being stuck in my house with my spouse 24/7 is not proving romantic at all.

      2. Hubs and I have been eating a lot of edibles and naturally gardening once the edibles kick in. If we weren’t so staunchly child free I could see how a whoopsie baby could occur.

        1. I get the feeling that no one is *working* and home and after this WFH gets curtailed severely.

          1. The type of people who make that conclusion based on one silly comment are probably the ones who have always hated WFH and focused on butt-in-seat time as the main metric. I hope you haven’t been one of those supervisors making people feel guilty for WFH in accordance with state and federal guidelines.

          2. Not on work time…. But at 4 pm when we clock out since we no longer have to commute

          3. Our office is taking the approach of “If you’re working from home, please be uber-transparent about your time and productivity so this might become an option during non-crises.” In other words, “DO. NOT. EFF. THIS. UP. FOR. EVERYONE. ELSE.”

          4. I work for a financial services firm. I’ve put in 12+ hour days every day, including weekends, for the last two weeks, which is slippery slope to fall down when you’re working from home.

    3. How is my husband in full-on germaphobe hunker-down WFH mode and yet also went to half of our ‘hood’s grocery stores looking for ground beef, spent ~$300 and yet has nothing to actually make a meal out of? Working from my empty office today.

      1. I was traveling a few weeks ago when I told my husband to pick up some extra supplies at the grocery store in case we had to quarantine. What did I come home to find? Lots of cans of baked beans. What do both of us not like? Beans. What even.

        1. We ended up with a Costco sized bag of seaweed snacks at my house. I have never once eaten nor expressed a craving for them. ??‍♀️

        2. What is it about baked beans? My H bought a bunch of them too. We don’t dislike them, but nevvver eat them.

          1. I bought a few cans as one of my junk-food-things-I-like but never buy items. That and mac & cheese (with the actual cheese, not the powder… SPLURGE!)

        3. Too funny. I made DH a list because otherwise we would end up with nothing but bottled red sauce, spaghetti and peanuts.

      2. Mine came home with all the beverages, chips, and snack food. Zero items to make a meal.

    4. Mine is off until remote work tomorrow and is trying to be “helpful” and wants to spend time together. It is coming from a place of love, but I need to be productive

    5. Man, that sounds really hard. Fortunately my husband and I are able to work from home in relative harmony but I know that it’s going to be a challenge nonetheless. Hang in there.

    6. Dude and I are still both working at work. We haven’t seen each other since Sunday afternoon when I left to come home to do laundry and get ready for the week. He flew (private jet) to another city yesterday because all he’s doing right now is consulting on isolation and containment units for hospitals. I am dealing with freaked out students and faculty as we continue to move toward complete shutdown, other than online. New Orleans now has the second highest infection rate per capita and people are too stupid to stay out of the bars and restaurants until they were shut down last night.

    7. Reading all these comments makes me appreciate my husband more. He’s been great about everything – cooking, doing a lot with our infant, prodding me to go outside and get fresh air, getting sensible and tasty groceries.

      1. Reading these comments makes me almost glad I’m single – being a little lonely in quarantine sounds better than dealing with a giant man-child.

        1. I’m separated, and I so agree. I can’t imagine being stuck in the house with the soon-to-be ex 24/7.

      2. Yeah, my partner (biglaw partner) and I (tech company GC) are both WFH. It’s not like we’re spending quality time together because we’re both absolutely swamped with work, but we’re both pitching in to do what needs to be done to keep the household moving in between our approx. 40 million calls per day and there’s no one I’d rather be stuck in the house with.

      3. It would be fine if we didn’t have kids because we have a large house and wouldn’t have to spend every waking minute in the same room. But with kids, it’s just a lot of togetherness. I love my husband and he’s not a man child, but I’m an introvert who just doesn’t want to spend this much time with other people, even my own family members. The weather is also really awful in our area, so we can’t even go outside. I hope everyone’s mood improves when we can at least spend a couple hours outside every day.

        1. It’s been raining where I live and we got outside anyway and it was the best thing I did all week. Running in the rain made me feel alive for the first time that day. I encourage you to get the right clothes on and get out there – it will help.

          1. I don’t mind rain. It’s been in the 20s and 30s here – really not weather I want to spend significant time outside in, even all bundled up. It’s supposed to be warming up later this week though.

          2. Hm, I love getting out in that weather, but I get that not everyone likes the cold. Good luck finding some other fun stuff to do though – it won’t last forever!

      4. I feel the same way. We’re both able to work fully from home, and I almost feel guilty, given the circumstances, about how much I’ve been enjoying just spending the day together so far. This is true even though we’re on headphones trying to stagger conference calls in our tiny apartment and aren’t really interacting! I’ve also been enjoying staying in at night with the cats watching the streaming performances that have been made free to access, or just reading. I imagine it would be different with children though. I think I also need to be more intentional about going outside and getting some fresh air and sunlight.

      5. You are lucky. The vast majority of us have or have had SO’s that were good for only 1 thing, and some not even for that. But we were bowled over by the need for companionship and gave in to all of the demands made on us (both physical and mental)–all for the privilege of having a BF or a husband. But sooner or later, the guy’s colors come through and you can see above what most are left with. A doofus who’s just looking to annoy the $hit out of us, or otherwise jump our bones for some lousy s-x where they satisfy themself and leave us empty, except for some soiled sheets that we have to clean up. Where is the equity in that? I say not, and that is why I am nearly 40 but still single. I supose most of the professionals in the HIVE agree with me, but are to ashamed to speak up, and I respect that, b/c no one wants to admit they made a mistake in the heat of the moment, letting these guys do their huffeing and puffeing and we getting nothing out of it. FOOEY !

      6. Yeah, this. We live in a one bedroom and it is fine. We had a small desk in the bedroom for infrequent WFH, so he took that and I took the dining table in our living room/dining room combo room. I think we both feel some anxiety due to social isolation and the unpredictable nature of the ongoing public health crisis, but I am glad we at least have each other.

    8. My husband and I WFH together frequently. We have the luxury of separate work spaces, which I know a lot of the emergency wfh don’t, but it helps so much. Isolate to different rooms. If you want to chat with the other person, knock on the door. If they give you a major glare while hunched over the computer, go away. Eat lunch together if you want, but also don’t feel like you need to. Quality headphones are critical. Sometimes we stream music on one of the smart speakers, but I work better with music, husband works better in silence. I like to do chores throughout the day. He doesn’t.
      We each take some time in the afternoon to exercise separately or do something apart. Even for just 30 minutes.
      It’s tough some days especially if one of us has a tough deadline and the other is on a slow streak. It just takes time to adjust being temporary coworkers, housemates, and spouses.
      Good luck out there!

      1. YES, speaking as a long time dual WFHers, definitely separate spaces if at all possible. Put a curtain up if you’re in a studio together. No hanging out and chatting while the other one is trying to focus, LOL.

        I get up at 5:30 and go right to my desk to get a good couple hours in before everyone else wakes up and wants shit. Not everyone can do this but it works with the time zones of the rest of my team and gives me time to MYSELF to just focus on work. I feel good if I feel like I did my best at work; I feel worse in the evenings if I feel like I was distracted too much.

        This week EVERYONE is getting used to this new arrangement, be gentle with yourself as you adjust, there is nothing wrong with you to be a little unsettled by the change (especially due to the reason for the WFH now).

    9. My husband is sending me text messages such as,”I’m going to the break room! do you want anything” (break rom = our kitchen). “the Break Room is out of coffee. Should I ask office services to brew another pot?” (office services = him). Not cute right now. Not cute.

      Also, coming into my home office when door is closed and trying to chat does not equal a happy wife. I billed 18 hours yesterday and am still getting panicked emails from 35 different investor groups demanding final versions of everything (documents, title policies, memos, signature pages) Right. Now. before they lose signatories and/or offices are closed down for good. I am but one person and my job is in fact crazier than ever this week. I have 5 real estate deals trying to close this week before courthouses and register of deeds offices close for good and before Fed Ex/UPS stop service (this is apparently a concern of several people?) and the Fed closes and won’t wire money. I am living in a full on panic world.

      1. Aww I do think those texts are cute. Sounds like you’ve had a rough few days though.

    10. Y’all are complaining about husbands, but my poor DH is probably on Reddit complaining about me! I’m extremely extroverted, in the real sense that I’m energized by people and in the stereotypical sense that I talk a lot and I’m super social. I need so. much. attention. So much. And you’d think my 3-6 hours of video meetings each day would do the trick, but nope, I want actual human eyes on me all the time. And my work requires so much context-switching that even when I do have time between meetings, it’s not like I go hunker down quietly to do work. It’s taking a lot of focus for me to keep from going into the home office and bugging him between meetings. On the plus side, I cook delicious dinners and talk him down from his stressed-out ledge and wipe down the kitchen and bathroom daily, so that’s nice. The gardening is… a struggle, mostly because we’re so stressed. Our cuddle game is strong though, so no accidental babies for us!

  2. Good morning everyone! You’re doing great. Be patient with yourself (and others around you)… nobody has ever done this before. You don’t have to be perfect, you just have to keep going.

    1. Thank you!! I need to be reminded not to punch stupid people in the throat just because they’re anxious and perseverating. It’s going to be okay and I don’t need to get violent.

    2. Thank you!

      I am trying to remind myself right now that I can only control my own actions. I’ve done everything that I can (stocked up to a sensible level, started working from home, following all guidance on hand-washing, convinced my 70-year-old mom to stop going to the gym last week, etc.). I can’t control whether my husband’s job closes. I can’t control how many ventilators our hospital has. I can’t control our hollowed-out social safety net.

      But I can keep doing the things that are in my immediate locus of control. And not give up even when they get hard.

      1. Amen. Yes, I feel the anxiety. There is a lot to worry about. But this, too, shall pass.

      2. I feel you! But I’ve been telling myself the same things: I am WFH, well stocked pantry, and young and healthy. I am doing all I can to minimize risk for myself and others. I am in touch with neighbors (all elderly) and may do a supply run in a few days if one of them needs me to. We are on lockdown here, and I remind myself that even though I was already following expert advice, a lot of people weren’t, which made this escalation necessary. My regional government is acting on expert advice and best available information. That needs to be my focus.

  3. Can anyone recommend a virtual escape the room that I can play online with friends as a cabin fever reliever? Alternatively, any other idea for fun virtual hangout?

      1. My friends and I all ordered one, and we just did it over Facetime.

        Tabletop Simulator on Steam has tons of board games you play virtually.

      2. Looks interesting! It’s not very clear to me how it works. Do you mind explaining the mechanics? I thought it would be something like everyone login to that website and pay a small fee to enter a virtual escape the room? It seems that all the games in that website are $200 plus and they also mention a shipping timed so I’m not sure if it’s an online virtual game that people can play from their homes individually?

        1. The Mysterious Pkg isn’t virtual, they ship you boxes of clues to figure out. My friends and I in different states will each order our own shipment, then we Facetime together to go through the clues. It is expensive, but they are really well thought out an executed puzzles, and the multiple shipments give you something to look forward to.

          The Tabletop Simulator you do log on and play, but I don’t have a lot of experience with it. My husband does it. He tells me if someone sinks your battleship, you can flip the table. :)

    1. Ooo! Totally following this! I’d love to have some options to play with my team! Are there any that take <1 hour?

  4. I am not doing okay. I work in healthcare and have been working non-stop for the last several weeks with absolutely no end in sight. I am also very stressed about personal concerns – a close family member’s elective but very needed surgery has been cancelled, I have migraines and am worried I won’t be able to get into my doctor’s office for my botox appointment in a couple of weeks, we only have enough food to last maybe a week and then we’re out, another close family member is in cancer treatment but refuses to practice social distancing. among many other things.

    I feel as if I am at my wit’s end, but I know that can’t be the case because things are only starting to go from bad to worse. I’m not sure what to do.

    1. Hang in there!

      I do wish you had a special express line for your own health care — seems right for those facing the most exposure right now. If you fall, we fall.

    2. Try to focus on the present moment and if you are okay right this second. Just be okay this second. Don’t borrow trouble.

    3. Hang in there. This seems like a marathon rather than a sprint, so try to slow down & do the things you need to do along the way so that you can keep going. Carve out some time to take care of yourself, including stress reduction & sleep. Try not to worry about the things you can’t control & prioritize the ones you can. Maybe buy/order groceries unless there’s something preventing you — if there is, tell us & maybe someone will have tips.

      1. +1. Put on the oxygen mask first. Get as much sleep as you can, touch base by vid with friends and family to touch base with them, and either ask someone to shop for you or order in. We all owe a debt to everyone in healthcare and if you reach out you will get support. Folks in my neighborhood are running errands for high risk neighbors so will be out shopping anyhow.

    4. Lean on your friends. If we were friends, or if you lived near me, I would absolutely drop off groceries and supplies on your doorstep (in a nice insulated bag, even).

      1. +1. Please reach out and let people know you need help: I know we all want to be self-reliant and prove that we’re strong enough to handle what the world throws at us, but this is a time where the only way we’re going to get through this is to draw on our communities.

      2. This – ask for help. People want to help each other but are not always sure what their friends need

    5. Fellow healthcare worker. It’s tough and it’s not over!! I’m in a shelter in place area. I scheduled a bunch of wine and Facetime with my friends. I forced myself to buy a few books in order to unplug from my computer and the news at night. Making some muffins on the weekend to bring a little comfort to my mornings. Hang in there.

    6. I know it seems like you don’t have time – but 20 minutes a day of meditation would probably help. There are apps out there that can guide you – Headspace and others. Thank you for all you are doing.

    7. I am so sorry. Thank you for your service. Here with a family member in healthcare (see below) and also feeling at the end of my rope but knowing it’s going to get worse. Take care of yourself and lean on anyone you can. You’re not alone.

  5. I really wish that Boden dresses didn’t make me look pregnant. I think it is something about the waist placement and waist-hip dimensions in relation to my very short torso and abs of queso coupled with very generous hips.

    1. Abs of queso. Love this! And with that, I’m craving queso…

      Boden doesn’t work for me at all either. I love their style but it doesn’t fit my shape (athletic hourglass – they’re cut too narrow in the hips/thighs/shoulders for me even if I size up).

    2. Are you me? I’ve never tried Boden dresses but I have similar issues with other dresses. And I’ll never refuse queso…

    3. Hmm. Boden makes me look pregnant too, only I am long-waisted, have abs not of queso, and have no hips.

  6. PSA: Emily Oster has a newsletter for parents. A few days ago, she had one about TTC in the time of Coronavirus, and today’s newsletter is for expecting mothers who are choosing between hospital deliveries and home births, and has advice about prenatal appointments.

    1. Lordy, I would not want to clean up after having a home birth. And yet, that is not going to clean itself. The lady in the commercials is right: clean means bleach.

      G-d bless all cleaners and sanitation people right now.

      1. What she said is that a lot of home births, especially first-time births, require emergency hospital transport.

  7. I’m in Illinois and want to vote but also don’t want to leave the house without assurance I’ll be able to have social distance there. My 60 plus husband had surgery last week (also has underlying health issues). Im mid 40s but use a CPAP to breathe at night and have asthma. I hate being put in this situation. Just an awful way for an election to be held.

    1. I just voted in Chicago and was the only voter there. Someone did have to hand me a clipboard and card, but that’s as close as I got to anyone. The judges all stayed behind a table. There was also ample hand sanitizer available. (I agree that the primary should have been postponed, just sharing my experience in case it is helpful.)

      1. +1 my experience too.

        Totally understand if you don’t end up voting though…I really wish they had postponed the primaries or extended mail-in voting.

      1. OMG I would not bother to vote in your shoes. It’s Chicago — I see what happens with political choices under usual circumstances. I doubt this will yield you a worse lot.

      2. I voted, albeit in an earlier election before the virus had ramped up quite so much, and I brought my own pen and practiced social distancing. It was fine.

    2. I voted over the weekend in Chicago and my polling site had good social distancing, with each booth a few feet away from each other and hand sanitizer everywhere.

    3. I don’t live in Illinois, but my state offers “curbside voting” for voters who would have a difficult time coming in to the polls – poll workers check ID and bring a ballot to the car. Maybe your state does something similar?

    4. I voted on Sunday and there was no one else in the room except the election judges. Not sure what it looks like now, but I was encouraging my own friends to vote over the weekend to help thin out the crowds. I saw a comment on Reddit from another Chicago voter who said they went as soon as the polls opened this morning and while all the booths were full when they got there, there was no line.

    5. With your circumstances, I would not go out to vote. I’m glad that Ohio postponed voting until June.

    6. We voted earlier today. Even though our polling place had 4 precincts in it, there was plenty of distance between tables, booths, etc. It also wasn’t very crowded. I think if you go at an off peak hour (like mid-afternoon if you can) you’ll be fine.

    7. Totally understand.

      I usually take my parents to vote in Chicago, but fortunately I ordered us absentee ballots (can order online) last week so we voted by mail. It just occurred to me that this might be an option, I sent an email to ask to my local gov office, and they said yes — option for all. Seemed good since I didn’t want them to have to be out in the crowds. I am totally doing this every year, since it was so easy. But I’m annoyed that the parties/government didn’t alert folks of this easy option earlier.

    8. Voted in IL at 6:15 am. Husband and I were only people there. Plenty of hand sanitizer and distance. Not troubled.

  8. Now that travel plans are cancelled and I’m under shelter in place orders, I’ve come to terms with the fact that I’m going to be inside a lot. I already was inside a lot in the early days of the epidemic due to caution re: my health. However, I’ve also made the unpleasant realization that smartphones and Netflix have destroyed my creativity and indoor hobbies. I used to do crafts, write poetry, play piano, knit, and lots of other random things, but now I…watch reruns on Netflix. I do better when I can get outside and there are lots of things that I enjoy, but it’s been kind of surprising and disappointing that with all this indoor time, the first thing my hand goes to is my phone to mindlessly scroll the Internet. The only indoor hobby that I have managed to maintain for years is reading. I’m not really looking for ideas for things to do because I have lots of them, but man, when did I become someone who needed to be firmly prodded away from the least lazy activities imaginable? At first I thought that it made sense that I would gravitate towards mindless Internet because of the gravity of the current situation, but when I think about it, it’s been my default activity for years now. My new goal is to use this time to figure out concrete strategies for pursuing some real indoor hobbies of value again. I think it will help me deal with the anxiety and stress as well – Internet certainly makes those worse.

    In that vein, anyone have recs for beginner knitting videos/resources? I have only vague memories of how to do it, but I think I will make it my first indoor hobby effort. I’m not going to beat myself up about this but I do want to change!

    1. Check out the YouTube channel for KnittingHelp . com, the videos are clear and well produced. There’s a big range too, everything from getting started 101 to advanced techniques. I’ve been knitting for 15+ years and I still use these videos sometimes! (There also used to be an independent website, thus the ‘dotcom’ suffix, but IDK if it’s kept up anymore.)

      Also, I personally find that browsing Ravelry helps me be excited to try new patterns and start projects. But you can definitely go down an internet wormhole there, and since you want to get away from the internets, maybe approach with caution…

    2. Tin Can Knits has a series of great first project tutorials with step-by-step guides (the Simple Collection) – I made the wheat scarf as my first, and I’m planning on using my stuck-inside time to also make the maize mittens, barley hat, and harvest cardigan. Soho Purl also has good how-to videos for specific stitches. Join Ravelry for inspiration – people are making some incredible stuff on there!

    3. Oof, I was you circa December 2018. Good news: I have resurrected a daily creative practice. Here’s how I did it if that’s helpful.

      I block off time every day to write, and treat that commitment as seriously as I treat showing up for a meeting with my boss. For me, that has to be in the morning, since I am just too drained after work to be creative, so I get up earlier than I would otherwise; obviously timing will vary based on personal preference. I started out with setting a timer for 15 minutes a day; now I’m up to two 20-minute chunks, generally. My phone sits in another room. I am not in the same room as the TV. For me, it’s also helpful to be like: well, my alarm went off at 5:30, it’s 6am and I am staring at my laptop screen, what the f*ck else am I going to be doing right now.

    4. I’m going to second the recommendation for Tin Can Knits. I’m also going to suggest knitting something you are interested in. People say start with a scarf, but if the idea of that bores you to tears, pick something else, even socks if they sound interesting. Even if it is a harder project to start with, if you are interested, you are more likely to stick with it. And, at the end of the day: it is just yarn. You can rip it out and start over.

    5. I used knittinghelp.com when I learnt! And tincanknits and Ravelry are both great resources that weren’t around then. It looks as though there are quite a number of us here who enjoy knitting – I wonder if we could set up a virtual knit night to help with the social contact needs during this.

  9. Is it professional to have an early morning Global conference call when your husband’s snoring can be heard in the background from 3 rooms away?
    #wfhproblems

      1. He has one set up! I was so excited! It was supposed to be in a few weeks! But…yeah….now I don’t see that likely happening. Sigh.

    1. At this point, all bets are off. I’m at work, wearing yet another mildly offensive t-shirt with my jeans…

      1. I’ve got a button down shirt on top…and pajama pants on the bottom! Yay video conferencing! :)

        1. I’m working at work and it’s a ghost town, but every day, I’m wearing jeans, sneakers, and a mildly offensive t-shirt. Today it’s Uranus Fudge Packers Union. A gift from a friend of mine who was a VP here.

          1. My friends and I have the sense of humor of teenage boys. She sent our other friend one that says Straight Outta Uranus.

      2. I’m still coming in to work, but I’m going Friday jeans-casual the rest of the week. We’re short-staffed as it is so I envision taking on some manual labor myself!

    2. IDK but we have a group call where we get to hear someone flush about 50% of the time. I’m convinced that it is always the same person.

      1. Can’t you tell who it is by seeing which microphones are active? With Zoom, I can look at the attendees list and see who’s talking (or chewing, or typing, or whatever…) Other meeting software is similar. Not that I’m sure I’d really want to know who’s using the bathroom… eww.

    3. Lol. Maybe we can help you come up with some professional excuses. It’s your printer acting up and shooting paper everywhere in short bursts & it can’t be disconnected because it’s in the middle of a very urgent job?

    4. Someone ordered half a pound of hard salami at the deli counter while on a national conf call (300+ people?) yesterday. That’s my favorite WFH (or not, in his case..) story thus far.

    5. Yesterday we had doorbells, dogs, and kids on our calls. Snoring seems less disruptive!

      1. The best WFH disruption story I’ve seen so far was on Twitter. One person’s dog started barking and other people’s dog’s started answering. Lots of people had their calls on speakerphone unmuted and it turned into a dog chorus.

        1. We have our first full team meeting by WebEx tomorrow and I desperately want to start it with a short contest of who has the cutest pet helping them work from home.

    6. I mentioned yesterday, my cat thinks the speakerphone is talking to him, and he talks back. Loudly.

      It’s like “if this b1tch isn’t going to get up and give me canned food, maybe whoever that is will.”

      1. Mine too! Unfortunately for him, my colleagues and clients do not buy his tales of starvation and woe.

      2. My cat loves to wait until I am un-muted and speaking on a conference call and then she meows super loud and nonstop. She’s completely quiet before and after. Argh. My colleagues are getting used to her though :)

      3. That is hysterical! I haven’t been home much but mine will camp out on my arm or chase me around nipping my legs whenever I’m home.

    7. I was doing a phone interview with a candidate yesterday and could hear an ice cream truck making the rounds, which once I got done finding it whimsical realized that it was horrific for an ice cream truck to still be out there.

  10. Bay Area people, one small silver lining to the difficult weeks ahead – we may be about to experience a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for great air quality with fewer cars on the road. I’m looking forward to taking some walks in the hills to check out the view.

  11. For those who can no longer go to their usual gym, what are you doing to maintain fitness?

    1. Walking in the park, by myself, wearing earbuds and waving to people I know rather than touching them.

      1. Oh! Before I joined the best gym ever (more on that below), I exclusively worked out at home with no or minimal equipment. My faves:
        YouTube:
        – Blogilates (pilates fusion)
        – Natacha Oceane (check her Instagram for quick HIIT workouts)
        – MadFit
        – The Fitness Marshall (dance-based)
        – Heather Robertson (has a fantastic, free 11-week program if you like structure)
        – Bodyfit by Amy
        – Fit by Larie
        Other:
        – Les Mills (21-day free trials)
        – PaleOMG Power Program
        – DailyBurn

        For any NOVA/DC folks…I go to Bodymass Gym (Arlington/DC locations), which modified all our workouts to be done at home and posted it to their app. They are a local small business and could really use your help if you’ve been looking for a new gym home! Support them if you can – they are AMAZING.

      2. I’m really enjoying Down Dog barre. Free to the end of the month to everyone and to July 1 if you have a .edu address.

    2. Check your local studios. A lot have gone to live stream classes at greatly reduced prices!

    3. I dug out a full body routine I used to do at home and started tackling it. Today is core.

    4. I fully admit that this is ridiculous, but I am doing the OLD OLD OLD Richard Simmons Sweatin’ to the Oldies videos. Found ’em streaming on Amazon for, like, $7.99 apiece. I used to do them way back in the day and it’s like a blast from the past. Also a decent workout — who doesn’t like doing early 80s dance moves?

      And when it stops raining Hubby and I will be taking nice long walks in the neighborhood.

      1. Ooooh, I should get out my old Kathy Smith videos! The dude was asking the other day if I had any means to record (I don’t, really – I have an ongoing dispute with my cable company over my ex’s name on the account, so I won’t make changes that cost me more money) and I told him that I still have a VCR. He laughed so hard – but I do!

        1. I used to work out to the Kathy Smith videos! We still have a VCR, but I have no idea if we even have the proper cables to hook it up to a TV.

          I remember you posted a while back about your kitty being sick. Hope she is feeling better!

          1. She is so much better! I believe her rodent ulcer is nearly gone, if not completely gone. Her rescue immunotherapy hit her really hard and she had an upper respiratory infection. Poor baby was just a total snotty mess. I gave her antihistamines for several days and had to change which one, but eventually found one that worked. I had her first allergy shot scheduled for last Friday and just couldn’t manage it, but now I don’t know if it’ll happen this Friday. She is back to her little sassy, bitey self.

    5. I’ve gotten really into The Fitness Marshall on YouTube! He does fun choreographed dances with great special effects, and he’s sassy! Love it.

      I mix a few of his videos with Yoga with Adriene and then either a run, something from Fitness Blender or PopSugar workouts, or a self-created circuit workout (some combo of planks, bicycle crunches, wall sits, chair tricep dips, jumping lunges, goblet squats, etc.). I’ll do 1 min on, 15 sec off and repeat a few circuits to get to 30-40 minutes.

    6. in mid-Atlantic weather is getting warmer and warmer…Lots of running and cycling and lifting barbells and kettlebells indoors

    7. I am missing Orangetheory and barre like crazy. Here’s what I’ve cobbled together:
      LEKfit to replace barre – $20/month for streaming
      Anna Victoria Fit Body App (HIIT) – one month free with code DAJEITALIA
      … and also last night I caved and ordered a treadmill, step and BOSU. Amazon is delivering them all tomorrow. I need something to burn off all my anxiety, especially if we are going to be stuck indoors for any length of time.

    8. This morning, squats and crunches in my living room. Wishing I had a medicine ball or some hand weights, and if I knew for certain that my gym would be closed for more than a couple weeks, I’d probably invest in them.

      I’m thinking about trying (yet again) to become a runner so I can get some solid cardio in but…. I just really hate it. Very much of the Ann Perkins school of thought: “Jogging is the worst, Chris. I mean, I know it keeps you healthy, but god, at what cost?!?”

      1. Use cans of food instead of handweights (though they’re not very heavy…) and maybe fill an old milk or detergent jug with water and swing that around and/or hold it during squats or lunges?

        1. OOOH, yes I will definitely do the milk jug full of water tomorrow morning!! Thanks.

    9. Down Dog yoga, Yoga with Adrienne, bodyboss workouts, and walks/”jogs” around the lake near our house (I took subscribe to the Ann Perkins school of thought on jogs).

    10. I’m trying to find videos on YouTube. Yesterday I did something from PopSugar and today was ShaunT. I can’t handle the narration though, 60 seconds into the warm-up this morning and I had to put it on mute! The workouts are good, but why is there so much chatter the whole time!?!? I usually do bodybuilder-style lifting, with some HIIT thrown in for good measure. I don’t have weights at home, so doing bodyweight squats, push-ups, tricep dips off the edge of the couch, etc.

    11. I signed up for a 7-day trial of Pure Barre On Demand and plan on moving to the monthly subscription after that. I had been doing barre in person for a long time, and then stopped going, and then subscribed to PB On Demand and didn’t do it, so I canceled it. But I’m not walking right now (I haven’t gotten over 6500 steps in 2 weeks), I’m anxious, and $30 a month is 2 lunches out per week, which I’m not doing right now because I’m in self-isolation. So…worth it. Also, I have one he** of a lot of free time.

      I did a 45 minute class last night and felt calmer than I have in a few weeks after. Highly recommend it.

    12. Did spinning for 35mins during my WFH lunch break. My bike is literally next to my desk.

  12. My office is encouraging us to NOT work from home, so…here we are. Anyway, one of my hobbies is baking, and so typically on Sundays I make a new dessert, and bring it in to share on Monday mornings. I’ve been doing this for a couple of years, and my coworkers tell me it really boosts their mood on a Monday. Should I continue doing this despite the pandemic? We could all really use a morale boost, but I’m not sure if it would be safe, or if people would be comfortable.

    1. No. I wouldn’t do it nor would I eat it if someone else brought it in. I’m sorry though.

    2. I wouldn’t. We had baked goods last week for Pi Day, and nobody would touch the food.

      1. My office scarfed it down – we’re gluttons for pie. It came from a restaurant and was pre-cut and served by people wearing gloves though.

    3. I was thinking of bringing in a crock pot and just cooking at work, my office is so vacant.

    4. Although my office is open, we were told no open food. Everything must be individually wrapped. So, I’d say skip it for now.

    5. What kind of business? Do you think the decision is unreasonable or does the company provide essential services that employees can’t provide from home?

      1. Global technology and manufacturing firm. Manufacturing obviously can’t be done at home…but its not like we make toilet paper or something essential. As for the rest of us, the company’s bandwidth is already straining under the load of those who have to WFH (b/c kids are home, they are high risk, etc). Its possible for my team to do our jobs remotely, but the slowness of the remote software makes that a very painful prospect, and productivity would be so low as to not make working worth it. I do find it hilarious that a technology company is struggling with the technology aspect. As this is a global company with tens of thousands of employees, and I am just one little worker bee, not much I can do except show up.

    6. Do not do this. Offices should be closing and everyone should be working from home. If your office insists on remaining open and you have an iota of power or the ear of someone in power, tell them so do the right thing. And in the meantime, nothing like shared food that leads to unnecessary heightened interaction.

      Signed,
      very worried spouse of physician

    7. Hi –
      I had a similar practice of baking for my IT team to show my gratitude for conference set-ups. For now I switched over to pre-packaged cookies. They accepted those gracefully, recognizing the spirit in which I offered them. Not nearly as satisfying but the best that can be done, now, I think.

  13. For the lawyers and other court folks, the National Center for State Courts has just posted a visualization of measures state courts are taking in response to COVID-19:

    https://www.ncsc.org/

    1. So worried about that. DH’s courthouse is still business as usual, because a hard-@ss in HR is making the decisions. My neighboring government has shut-down almost completely, because the top executive and the public health officials made a plan together. And yet our jurisdiction is basically being mocked for the response (as I heard at a necessary trip to drs and rx yesterday). So so frustrating.

      1. I have been very concerned that the courts are not taking this seriously enough and that some states are leaving it up to individual courts. IME, courts are lousy just at handling snow days. Two thumbs up to the Kentucky Supreme Court for ordering statewide restrictions on court proceedings, though.

    2. Anyone else work for an appellate court? I’m a career appellate clerk and our courts have done nothing and I’m getting so frustrated. I work from home regularly, as do lots of other clerks, and our job can be done from anywhere with an internet connection…yet here we all are sitting in our respective offices. WHY??? I have kids and DH has an underlying condition so I really don’t want to bring anything home with me.

      1. I’m a career appellate clerk for a state court. We have moved to everyone WFH indefinitely except non-essential personnel like one or two people in the clerk’s office. I think we have 3 people in our office today out of a total staff of about 150.

    3. I manage litigation and assign a lot of cases to a lot of lawyers. I keep getting e-mails from law firms telling me how ready they are for all this. Meet our Task Force! Our courts are shut down except for emergencies. If your e-mail contains some BS chest-pounding about how you’re tough enough to be in the office during all this and if it doesn’t assure me you’re letting your admin staff stay home, I am making a mental note that your judgment is questionable and you just might be a glassbowl.

      1. My large firm has a Task Force, it’s meaningless. We are still business as usual, coming into the office everywhere but SF (due to govt orders). They won’t take action and have us WFH until the govt shuts us down.

      2. All of our firm’s attorneys are working from home and all of the staff (except for HR, and billing, and accounting… so basically assistants and paralegals) are expected to be in the office (in a state that has closed all schools and yesterday ordered all bars and restaurants to close), but, hey!, they’re letting us dress casually for the rest of the week (unless we’re handling a meeting, then it’s business casual…) /heavy sarcasm

  14. Need advice on the management front: We recently hired an admin who is proactive and really wants to help. The problem is that she is not good with attention to detail. An attorney will send a list of instructions: A-D, and C will get missed, repeatedly. Her emails have typos. She said she was proficient at word, but correcting formatting takes hours. She will schedule meetings and not include some of the requested people, not reserve a room or forget to include the remote option. I have sat down and urged her to take her time, double check instructions and her work. This is a constant concern, and I am having to double check all of her work. Is this something I can coach her through or any advice on how to manage through this challenge?

    1. No idea if you can manage through this, but I think you should communicate to her that she needs to do her job well because you do not have the bandwidth to check her work. This is a bigger deal than she thinks it is.

    2. If you want to coach her through . . . the coaching approach (as in, how you get trained if you are doing life coaching) is that you alongside people as they make their own plans to change.So I’d start asking HER to come up with concrete things she is going to do to start addressing these areas. If she’s simply not detailed, this is going to be a hard area for her to start making changes in, and she needs something far more concrete than “take your time” or “check your work.” To her, that may be as difficult as telling an introvert, “Just go to the party and chat more with all the strangers!” She may need a checklist that she uses every time she does X or Y. Or she may need to keep a list of things she’s missing in word and then walk herself through them one by one each time she formats a Word file. Ask HER to figure out how to change, and when she gets stuck (and she will, if she hasn’t had to figure out this kind of change plan before), get her the help she needs to make the changes. It’s going to take intentional effort on her part, or it won’t happen. Just like I can learn to chat at parties, but it’s hard for me, doesn’t come naturally, and isn’t something I like doing.

  15. This dress is stunning! It’s not a good idea to get a spring dress when I might be WFH until early summer, right?

    1. I know! With work being jeans and t-shirts and no church and no going out, I don’t see myself wearing dresses much.

  16. What are you wearing to WFH?
    Me: fleece-lined Boden hoody (because Boden truly is all-purpose), Elizabeth Warren T-shirt (sniff), Cookie Monster pajamas. Obviously, no Zoom today.

    1. Jeans, boots, and a purple cotton-cashmere sweater I got at Goodwill. I miss going to Goodwill…

    2. Today: husband’s pajama pants, an old T-shirt with a mountaineering slogan on it, and my favorite Patagonia fleece. Yesterday was my own pajama pants and a really old wool sweater I inherited from my aunt. No bra either day and there was Zoom involved yesterday.

    3. Uniqlo heattech turtleneck, LL Bean plaid hoodie, Athleta polartec leggings, sneakers. (No video calls, just audio)

      1. These amazing Gap joggers and a thermal. No makeup. Thick socks. There is a post-it over the camera on my laptop and always will be.

    4. Today: Yoga clothes, no makeup
      Yesterday’s big videoconference: Going Out Blazer and scoopneck tee, makeup, ripped jeans, bare feet

    5. Leggings and a tank top, with a sweater over it that was presentable enough for my one video call. Soft bra. Did put on really basic makeup (bb cream with SPF, mascara, brows, added lipstick before the call).

    6. If I were home, I’d be wearing my cherry print tank onesie pajamas. Instead, I’m at work in jeans, t-shirt, Talbots sweater blazer, and flat boots. If one more person comments about how short I am because I’m not wearing my usual heels, there will be a throat punch.

    7. Leggings, a long -sleeve T-shirt with my home state’s flag on it (NM Zia!), and fuzzy slippers. No makeup, no bra, and wet hair. Working and trying to have my elementary age children do something other than watch TV all day.

    8. Sweatpants and sorority party t-shirt from 2002. I have also not showered yet. I’ve been on calls all morning, but we don’t use video for anything so it doesn’t really matter… I WFH with some regularity so I’m kind of used to this, but I can already tell the frequency is going to drive me nuts after a while.

    9. Green henley tee, darker green cashmere cardigan (tip o’ the mornin’ to ya’), Kat from the Kloth ankle jeans, black athletic socks and slippers. Wet hair, no makeup. I’m a real vision.

    10. My Gap leggings from their athletic line. They are the best. I have two pairs and need more.

    11. Going full nerd wonk today. College debate team sweatshirt, Warren tee, denim skirt, cosy thick tights, and bright pink slippers. Are fluffy slippers professional?

    12. A ringer tee and Madewell’s perfect vintage jeans, which I find pretty comfortable! Yesterday was leggings and a pullover sweater.

    13. Black skinny jeans, “the leprechauns made me do it” tee with green shamrocks. black sandals..still trying to celebrate.

    14. Betabrand charcoal pants, a black Uniqlo tee and a yellow cardigan with booties. It’s, objectively, a terrible outfit and I look like I work at a mall clothing store but whatever.

      I don’t get anything done if I don’t change into something with at least the semblance of a “real” outfit (which is not to say I didn’t wear jeans and a sweatshirt last week a few times). But if I’m in yoga leggings, I feel like I’m lounging and don’t get anything done.

    15. Red dress with a very voluminous neck piece thingy and an asymmetrical hemline, red-pink candystriped tights and black boxerboots with red accents (standing on tile floor to work as much as possible, so I need a bit of padding, although not a fan of shoes indoor)

    1. I’m not her at all but also the markets have been yo-yoing for weeks at this point but they ultimately keep going lower so I hope everyone holds off on celebrations

      1. So was gloating about stock returns when people are being denied basic human rights and our planet is on fire.

          1. Anyone who defended our government locking children in cages with “yeah, but my portfolio is doing great so I don’t care” (and that is literally what she did) deserves anything thrown her way.

            None of us are doing well right now, so it’s sort of gallows humor anyway.

          2. Thank you; that was my point. “Ha, ha, this jerk is now suffering along with 100 million other Americans!” isn’t exactly a position of moral superiority, ya know?

  17. Tell me if I’m being overly paranoid or not paranoid enough…I’m thinking of going to a local downtown food hall (Chicago – Wells St Market) to pick up lunch and to get me outside for a few minutes. It’s pick-up only. Should be pretty safe right?

    1. I would probably stick to a single restaurant type of pick up to get outside vs a full hall of ‘em in one place if what I’m envisioning is right. Just, really, no need and the more people you are around is how this gets bad.

    2. Please don’t do that. The thing people must understand is that it is not about what is safe for your personal risk tolerance, this is about being responsible people and minimizing contact to stop the spread.

  18. Lighthearted fashion comment: Rank & Style is telling us that puff-sleeved tees are all the thing for spring. Am I the only one who looks like William “Refrigerator” Perry in a puff-sleeved shirt? Is anyone here old enough to know who I am talking about?

    1. The last time puffed-sleeve tops were trendy was 2008-2009. I think we’re already repeating plenty from that era and will be avoiding…

    2. You’re lookin’ at the Fridge,
      I’m the rookie.
      I may be large, but I’m no dumb cookie.

    3. Part of me wants to wear them because they flatter my narrow shoulders. But I’m also round and petite and worry they may make me look childish. I picked up a long puffed sleeve ribbed pullover to experiment; I’m hoping it leans more Star Trek than kindergarten!

      1. I have narrow shoulders but am busty and was surprised to find that some of the new puff sleeve shirts are pretty flattering on me.

        I think the key to avoid having them look juvenile is for the sleeves to be a bit longer – the ones I have come to probably 3/4 down my upper arm – and in darker colors. I have one in black and one in olive, and I don’t think they make me look childish.

        Can we get the fashionistas to agree to a pause on fashion? Like, everything that is in style now will also be I style for Spring 2021 so I can finally wear the things I got before the plague hit?

    4. OMG yes hahaha. My brother and I used to play “Eagles” when we were kids and I was always the Fridge. I had his football card. Our dog was named Mike after Mike Quick.

    5. Not just you, and yes I do. Long bubble sleeves are apparently back as well. I need sleek arms on my clothes, y’all. I’m not about dipping my shirt in my food.

    6. I’ve got wide shoulders and I’m soooo not into the puff sleeves and bell sleeves trend.

    7. I will be the voice of dissent here – I am quite muscular of shoulder (thanks swimming and pullups!) and actually find many puff sleeve shirts, especially short sleeved ones, to be relatively flattering…provided that the puff is not too exaggerated. I found a ponte elbow length puff sleeved one at jcrew that I have been wearing a ton (and wish it came in white as it might be the first fitted white tee NOT to be see-through…sigh). https://www.jcrew.com/p/womens_category/shirts_tops/tee/puffsleeve-ponte-top/AE781?sale=true&color_name=spicy-jade

  19. A question and a recommendation:

    – Does anyone have a favorite home office chair? Preferably something in the $200 or less range? Currently working with a folding chair and my bottom is not going to make it much longer….

    – I just ordered a “Pink Picasso” paint by numbers kit as an indoor activity that doesn’t involve staring at a screen. I’m looking forward to it arriving. I got my MIL one for Christmas and she loved it and is already working on her second one! It looks like a fun activity.

    1. I ordered a paint by numbers, too! I find coloring kind of stressful because of having to choose colors, but I’m hoping the paint by numbers will give me some moments of zen.
      Hmm, maybe now is also the time to try some easy beginner embroidery…

    2. Oh, I could also use a good chair rec.

      Paint by numbers sounds fun! They also make “stickers by numbers” books for anyone who wants a little zen relaxation but has to deal with kitties or kiddies knocking stuff over.

    3. I love the bungee chairs from container store, and they run around $200! Prefer them to the Aeron chairs our office uses.

    4. I use the Poppin max task desk chair, which I got at the container store. It retails for $299 w/o any kind of coupon, but I find it amazing comfortable for 8+ hr days and I’ve had it in the bright turquoise for 2 years.

    5. I had the same issue and just bought this one – search Am*zonBasics – Adjustable High-Back Mesh Chair with Flip-up Arms and Head Rest – Grey, BIFMA Certified on the River site. It’s super comfortable and a great value for the money, at least so far.

    6. I’ve been doing jigsaw puzzles while listening to an audiobook (and I turn my phone on airplane mode). I can work on a puzzle for 2-3 hours at a time and just focus on the puzzle and the book.

      I’ve had an Ikea Henriksdal fake-leather chair for about 4.5 years now and it’s pretty comfortable. Probably not great ergonomically but whatever.

  20. I’m know everyone is probably tired of hearing about COVID but I am living in a nightmare. My husband works in healthcare and we have spent the last few days grappling with whether they have enough protective gear to keep themselves safe. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF WHATEVER YOU HOLD DEAR, STAY HOME UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. I wish we had the luxury of just staying home but my husband has a moral obligation to go out and help. People are going to die. A lot of people. I don’t even have words to express my ire at the dance studios and play places etc that remain open. Please be part of the solution, not the problem, stay home and spread the word.

    Oh, and if you’re hoarding any n95 masks, drop them off at the nearest emergency department. Some docs are already being asked to wear what should be a disposable mask for multiple shifts. The public typically does not know how to use them the make them effective, and in any case can more effectively keep themselves safe by simply staying home, which see above, the docs cannot do.

    Thank you.

    1. Counterpoint, I’m keeping my (six) N95 masks that I bought during wildfire season so if I get sick, I can wear it to the ER and avoid infecting others. I don’t trust that the supply will be there at the hospital and I wouldn’t want to be a burden on it even if it were. That being said, it’s unconscionable to hoard a massive supply of masks right now and everyone should absolutely stay home.

      Thank you for all that you and your family do.

          1. don’t be selfish. Why would you need six to keep in case you want to wear one to the emergency room? Health care providers need them NOW.

      1. six masks used now to keep healthcare workers able to do their job are more useful than six masks used hypothetically in a few weeks. Your described usecase makes sense , if you get admitted to a hospital when the time comes, you will be isolated anyway. Don’t keep more masks than people in your household.

        1. I don’t know if that’s accurate since masks are supposed to be replaced after use. I’m not stockpiling tons, but six for two people seems like a smart move so we do not infect others if we have to go to the ER and then the hospital. I have severe health conditions to consider – if I get sick, I’m getting admitted.

          1. That’s correct that they aren’t supposed to be reused. Many hospitals are currently reusing theirs.

          2. You’re hypothetically protecting the health care providers from one imaginary person: you. 3 if we count your whole family. People on the front lines of giving care during this pandemic see many people every day. You’re keeping needed equipment for your own personal reasons even though you know there’s a shortage during a global pandemic.

          3. They are hers. She bought them a long time ago. It is not selfish to keep your own preexisting stuff; it’s selfish to go and buy up the stock in the face of an emergency.

    2. seconding this! I see people commenting on the lockdowns in various part of the world with ‘in a democracy, the people should be trusted to use their common sense’. So, USE it! Bay Area folks were told to avoid nonessential contact for days. People still going to bars, companies that could WFH not allowing it. That’s the reason we’re now ordered to stay home. Because not enough people used their common sense.
      Same thing with Target limiting how many of a thing you can order.
      Ugh. It will not always be this tense. Things will get better (after they get worse).

    3. I am in the same place but also 7 months pregnant. Very afraid for my husband who is on the front lines of providing patient care every day and for our impending baby being delivered into a hospital that is overrun.

      All our family lives a flight away.

      Very hard to keep it together while working from home.

      For the love of all that is holy, stay home. Do not send your kids to day care.

      1. I see you and you’re not alone! Family is far away too, not that I’d see them anyway at this time. Thank you for all that you and your family are doing! Hugs.

    4. We are fighting management, who is saying we are an “essential business” (LOL no) and we’re all expected to report to work or face consequences. It’s madness. Capitalism will kill us.

  21. Hi friend. I know some of you are sheltering in place or living in areas that are icky out. And some of you will be feeling blue-r than normal. I’m reminding y’all about the happy light and how helpful it’s been for me during the winter. I know we can “go outside” if we maintain distance but some people may be afraid of that. Amazon has these for under $50 and may be helpful as this looks to be a long go. Just a reminder. Sending everyone lots of love. (I’m on day 7 of self isolation and I’m about to lose my mind)

  22. Does anyone feel this will permanently change friendships/alter their view of certain people? Almost all of friends have been great — doing what they’re supposed to re not going out; keeping in touch just to give each other a break (mix of married needing a break from spouses and singles living alone and just wanting company).

    There’s one friend however where I’m just stunned. For WEEKS she’s been minimizing this as “just a cold,” as she totally wasn’t following China, SK, Germany etc. Fine. But to the point where she actively was eye rolling (I think – I mean I wasn’t with her in person) when I told her I wasn’t going to a long planned conference in Vegas last week of Feb.; she took it as “scared of a cold.” (Uh — scared for my severely leaky heart valve, thanks.)

    Fast forward a few weeks, many people started WFH at some point last week and even if they couldn’t WFH, I feel like people were starting to minimize going out a bit — i.e. not running to stores constantly, skipping the gym etc. This woman — nope — gyms, restaurant to restaurant, coffee, to the store bc OMG she needed new gym shorts RIGHT NOW etc. She’s in NYC and I get that lots of people behaved like this — but she isn’t exactly 22, she’s 45 with 80+ year old parents. And to top it off, she’s on the board of her building so asking for stepped up cleaning, messaging to residents etc. is on her, and you can imagine how that’s gone from someone who until a few days ago was saying “just a cold.” And when one of our friends dared to say to her, you need to get something out to residents — they shouldn’t be hanging out in the lobby with the doorman or crowding elevators — we all got yelled at (via text). I know she isn’t the only one behaving like this, but this forever changes my opinion of her. It’s so ME-ME-ME, I won’t dare go without my Starbucks, and anyone who thinks I should stay home for the health of others is paranoid. Anyone seeing this in their own friend or family group?

    1. Not in my friend or family group, but my cousin’s boss came in to work sick yesterday (after spending time at a basketball tournament with teams from all over the state of Washington), made sure to call a mandatory all-staff meeting in a small conference room, coughed on everyone she possibly could, made the rounds to go to everyone’s cubicles, and brushed off the frantic concerns of staff who begged her to stay home (“I know I’m contagious but I’m taking Sudafed. People need to calm down.”) Most staff either have a preexisting condition or family members that do. Said boss is now posting on Facebook about how she’s exciting to go to a casino this weekend. My cousin is pregnant and is now home without pay to avoid her boss and we are all seeing red.

      1. I would absolutely positively lose my f-ing s*it if someone said “I know I’m contagious but I’m taking sudafed.” Seriously, I’d actually probably start yelling no matter where I am, including at work. She could kill someone. Can your cousin report her to HR? Good god.

        1. It’s been escalated to their union and to HR in a greater regional office and they finally seem to be taking it seriously. I’m sure it won’t be more than a slap on the wrist, but as long as this boss gets sent tf home, I think people will feel slightly more at ease.

    2. For sure. No one I am super close with is like that but I am a millennial and a few people in my circle think it’s a joke and took advantage of the cheap airline tickets to travel during a crisis. I have several EXTREMELY high risk family members and if anything happens to them I will be making it known that it could have been prevented if selfish pricks stayed the F home.

      1. A close friend of mine was planning to travel from WA to see his GF in Europe (long-distance). I know they’re both stressed and anxious, but DUDE you should NOT GET ON A PLANE. His roommate works at a grocery store, he’s almost certainly been exposed at this point. When I asked if he was planning to cancel, he said “No, why would I? I want to stay longer if I can!”

        Then his flight got canceled.

    3. I’m not seeing this in my friends, but I feel your disappointment is totally warranted. Whether to cut contact or appeal to her common sense, I don’t know. Depends on your patience and energy levels, I guess. My inlaws are beginning to seek comfort in hoax conspiracy theories, but they are still following expert advice.

    4. I have actually been surprised that some family members who are otherwise frustratingly cavalier about germs are taking this seriously.

    5. Honestly, this is a crisis and people are irrational during times like this.

      I’ll save my ire for all the trump voters. They elected a man who was fundamentally unfit and they knew it. He’s the reason your friend thinks this is a cold. The vacuum of global leadership and his continued inaction, in furtherance of his own selfish interests, will cost millions of lives and everyone’s economic future. Seriously.

      1. Trump is not fundamentally unfit.

        Obama was fundamentally unfit and was a complete joke.

        1. You are also an idiot. A bigger idiot than the woman below, actually. An absolute, phenomenal, “can you believe this level of stupid” idiot.

      2. I hate to tell you, but nobody — no Democrat, no Republican, not Trump, not Obama, not Hillary, not even Jesus H. Christ himself could have stopped this. This is a pandemic, the likes of which this entire effing planet has NEVER SEEN BEFORE. Blaming people who voted for somebody you don’t like isn’t going to make it any better or make it go away. Honestly, Trump could cure this damn virus and some of you would still be screeching about him.

        Now go wash your hands.

    6. My husband’s sister was on a cruise last week and is back in her office this week. I’m majorly side-eyeing her.

    7. I do think there will be permanent shifts in how some are viewed. I also think even if someone has the attitudes described, the social shaming aspect is really heating up and even if someone thinks it’s silly may quickly learn that they are NOT being viewed positively by many, many people and that may stop them.

      On the flip side, I will say our head of office took this super seriously and early on, encouraging cancelling travel and the like before it became mainstream. I have to say I have a new higher respect for him, especially because in some cases he was making these calls on his own with really no precedent – when meanwhile I can barely make the decision about if it’s okay for just me to go for a run or not.

    8. One of my cousins was super disappointed that her trip to NYC got canceled on whatever day Broadway etc. closed. So she then booked a last minute trip to Florida because there was NO way she was staying home during her kids spring break, perish the thought. She just doesn’t care because she and her husband are 37 with kids that are like 7-8 years old so none in vulnerable age groups/categories. But her parents who live 1 min away and who see the kids at least 5 days a week for hours per day — as kids eat most of their meals at grandmoms because mom doesn’t cook — are in their 70s. If I’m the grandparents, I’m telling them — hope your trip was fun, see you in 2 weeks, please don’t send the kids to my house until April, thanks. But I’m not surprised because she’s generally selfish.

    9. Yes, definitely rethinking a friendship with one person in particular who is still going to restaurants, actively noting benefits of it being less crowded, etc. This has highlighted to me her lack of judgment and a fundamental mismatch in our values, so yeah, not a friendship I will be investing in going forward.

    10. This sounds like denial, but it’s frustrating because there are consequences for other people.

      I’ve been feeling sensitive to comments about how the virus will “only” affect certain people in high risk categories, as if that’s comforting or acceptable. Those comments have started to slow down as people have gotten the message about hospital capacity (which affects everyone).

    11. One of my dearest friends co-owns a restaurant in another state and they heavily promoted their March 14 St. Patrick’s day event and posted photos of the event with multiple people crowded into selfies with faces touching. I just couldn’t believe it. I knew our politics were different but… wow.

      1. Restaurant owners are facing down a lot of problems. Their problems are actually bigger than – if you can believe it – deciding which Audi SUV to drive, or how to renovate a bedroom into a walk-in closet. I know, I know, that’s crazy talk, but they actually might need the business.

    12. I have a cousin who is an practical nurse at a nursing home who posted that everyone is making a big deal out of an illness where 98% of the people live. She’s too ignorant to realize that 2% is a really high mortality rate, and that it will be much higher than that at her workplace, if it hits there.

      Her big issue is that she misses going out, so screw the nursing home residents, I guess.

    13. Friend of a friend who posted pics of brunch on the weekend at an NYC restaurant — 10+ person group — with the comment “I’ll stay home tomorrow . . . .” I know lots of people did this in NYC, but this woman is an operating room nurse at a major NYC hospital!?

    14. I believe we are massively over reacting, and may be doing more harm than good. For example, a previous poster said “millions will die.” Well, 7,531 people globally have died, so millions is doubtful. This catastrophizing creates more stress for people, creates more panic, and puts us in a doom loop of panic and reaction. There are some people who are naturally rising up and showing calm leadership, and we should note those people instead of just the people who aren’t doing what we think they should.

      Although I do think the world has lost its collective mind, I am doing what my town and state ask me to. I am at work because we have been told to report as usual, because my company offers important public services. So, if you want to hate on me because I don’t agree, even if I follow the rules, well, I don’t care.

      1. People keep pitting the virus against panic, but I’ve never experienced panic that was worse than even a regular respiratory infection. That said, John Ioannidis has an op ed in Stat News that you may appreciate. I hope if the US finally starts testing widely, we will have better information soon.

        1. My IQ is 179 and I have three degrees. But, if it makes up you feel better to call me a derogatory name, knock yourself out.

          1. OMG. Anyone who brags about their IQ and their degrees and uses those completely meaningless measures as justification for saying something repellent and acting in the most selfish way possible is worse than an idiot. Forget about your IQ – do you have any friends? Do you have a partner – or anyone in your life who is willing to tolerate your insufferable company for longer than two hours? Do your family members ever call you and stay on the phone for more than 15 minutes? My guess is no. Have fun dying alone (of Coronavirus or whatever) with your three degrees and your high IQ.

        2. A high IQ and 3 degrees doesn’t mean you aren’t an idiot, you’re just an idiot who thinks you’re smart.

          1. That actually describes the people insulting her. My IQ is “merely” about 160 and I was able to figure out what she was talking about – and she’s not being an idiot. She is making an important and nuanced point.

          2. No, she’s being a jerk. “I believe we are massively over reacting, and may be doing more harm than good.” Tell that to the many families whose loved ones died in Kirkland, WA. They would have benefitted from just a BIT more reaction when this thing first popped up. Or the people who can’t get testing and are terrified for themselves.

            Also: Literally NO ONE cares about your IQ but you. It means nothing. It means absolutely positively nothing.

      2. In a pandemic like this, the appropriate reaction will look like an overreaction beforehand. After the fact, it will either (a) look like too little too late and everything will go downhill fast or (b) still look like an overreaction because things didn’t collapse, but that was the point.

        1. Yup. I am totally praying for the back end to look like “whelp, looks like we all went a little overboard!”

        2. +1 – I am a lifelong NOLA resident, and this is what you have to do. You have to overreact a little. I lived through Katrina. Overreacting now is how you don’t end up stranded on your roof.

        3. Circular reasoning: you are assuming that a massive reaction is needed, when her question is whether or not that is the case.

      3. Can you elaborate on what you mean by “more harm than good” – what harm is being done? Is it just economic harm that you’re referring to?

        1. Economic harm is one thing — people without jobs will struggle to pay for food and medicine, and the “gig” economy is really going to hurt. Economic harm isn’t just “boo, capitalism.” Economic harm can be severe, it doesn’t impact the population equally, and will affect people’s health, life span, and quality of life.

          People that already have illnesses, need surgery, need treatment, etc. are going to have their care deferred, and some of those people will die. We are attempting to kill every bit of bacteria we can find on any surface, but bacteria is good for us, and for our immune systems. People will get sick. There will be tremendous waste, as people have stocked up on things they can’t possibly use, while others will go without.

          There is distraction and reallocation of resources, which can be a huge opportunity cost.

          Political careers will end over this, and I don’t know if it will be the President, or only the President. Some state and local politicians appear to be almost competing to close down things and give press conferences. I don’t think we should fool ourselves believing that everyone will agree that since there wasn’t a collapse, the actions taken were appropriate. If a huge number of people come to believe it was an over reaction, the political consequences may be significant.

          I may have a failure of imagination to envision what may happen next, but we have literally crippled the economy and put the lives of million of people into a complete tailspin. Some will never recover. The op ed in Stat News posted by someone at 1:19 is very good.

          1. Are you aware of what the conditions are in Northern Italy? Go google some of the pieces written in the English-language media by Italian health care providers. You don’t need to imagine at this point: you need to go look at what is happening, right now, in a country where people admit they did not take the early measures they should have taken, and are begging the world to learn from their mistakes.

          2. Maybe some things need to change if people are expected to risk their lives to keep the economy afloat?

          3. What all the “let the people die to save the economy!” people seem to be missing is that if millions of people die and society disintegrates, the economic harm will be much worse than the harm from extended social distancing.

      4. well, we can’t figure out how to slow the spread. Whatever percentage mortality you apply(0.5%, 2% or 9%), if we all get it, millions of people will actually die.

        1. And the low end mortality rates (.5-1%) assume good healthcare, access to a ventilator, etc. It will be more like 10-15% if there are no hospital beds available (which there wouldn’t be, in the absence of protective measures). Even 0.5% is literally millions dead if even half the world catches it, that’s just arithmetic.

        2. From what I’ve read, protective equipment works beautifully. But there simply isn’t enough for all of our doctors and nurses, let alone everyone whose jobs exposes them to contagion. It really looks as though our entire healthcare system has been operating much too close to the margins, despite decades of warnings.

      5. the math is, the number of cases have been doubling every two days. So if 7,531 cases double, that’s 15,062 two days from now. If it doubles 10 times, thats 7,711,744 cases. This is classic exponential growth, caused by the fact that this disease is highly, highly contagious. The current estimate for how contagious is is an R0 between 2-3, which means that every infected person infects another two to three people. That’s a far higher contagion rate than similar widespread illnesses – for instance H1N1 had an R0 of 1.2 to 1.4.

        This is why we do social distancing now. If we can slow that exponential progression we can keep from overwhelming hospitals. The hospitals in Italy (and we’re getting there in Seattle) are so overwhelmed that they’re making life and death decisions they wouldn’t ordinarily have to make. People who under normal circumstances could be saved pretty easily can’t get treatment.

        Since testing hasn’t been widely available, there are infected people running around in just about every community now, whether they show symptoms or not. Keeping these people at home, and we don’t know who they are so that includes YOU, is the only way to stop the contagion. This is no joke.

    15. i am actively severing friendships over this. i don’t have to give time or love or effort to people in my life who are so unthinkably selfish that they use this as an opportunity to travel or keep going out or “get a relaly good reservation without competition” or whatever. i also have elderly parents and family with asthma etc and can’t believe people are being so selfish and neglecting their civic duty

      1. am SO grateful i’m not on social media anymore- i have a chronic lung disease and would absolutely not handle stuff like that very well. I ended a long-time friendship a few years ago over that she accused me of being ‘authoritarian’ for saying that vaccines should be required for healthcare workers unless they cannot get a vaccine for a health reason.

        She came back 2 years later and apologized….

      2. IDK if I’m actually severing but there’s definitely a person who I’ll never see the same again. Much like OP’s friend actually — kind of mocking those of us who’ve taken it seriously for weeks; hitting up all the restaurants and bars because OMG small business (yes I know the issues – order it in or gift card or something); and running out of the house because literally — oh I bought food but I really really want a candy bar right now.

    16. Yes – I think this has potential to alter the way I look at people in my environment, but maybe not quite for the reasons you explain. What I find horrible is people with a high-horse attitude. “I stockpiled my groceries three weeks ago because I listened to the warnings early, so I’m not part of the grocery raiding problem” “I think we should all petition the school boards to close our schools and home school for the rest of the year”. While I don’t disagree that listening to warnings or to deter the virus spread by keeping our kids home, it makes me nauseous to see people bragging about this stuff without a sensitivity to how desperate this makes some people feel – I’m a single mom who works full time. While I’m in a place of enough privilege to not worry about keeping my family fed or my rent paid if I have to stay home because there’s no school or daycare, there’s certainly a lot of single moms (or any working parents) that this crisis makes their own situation even more scary. I feel almost panicked about how I’m going to be able to keep working and try to figure out how to homeschool my kiddo. So sensitivity people. Karens can stay home on their high horses of privilege and keep their comments off my social media feed.

      1. I totally agree!

        Related: my kids’ school district closed last Friday. There was someone whining on our school FB group about how the assigned work. wasn’t long enough/challenging enough for Her Precious. Another mom pointed out that our district basically closed a week ahead of a two-week spring break (so they are really trying to do remote learning for one week right now). Precious’ mom replied with a classic mom-shaming response, claiming that it was essential to foster an atmosphere of learning and she alone values education among our community blah blah blah. It’s all I can do not to snark back, “golly gee willikers, I don’t know much about book learnin’ having gone to a public school in that there flyover country BUT AS A GRADUATE OF FANCY A** COLLEGE AND LAW SCHOOL, common sense suggests we just do the best we can.”

        1. She may have a point. Online work can be quite challenging, but it’s often just not held to high standards.

          1. I suppose my kids will just have to kiss their dreams of Yale goodbye if they don’t get proper instruction over the next few weeks.

    17. No. But I also went about my own weekend, tried to get services and purchases completed before there is more of an issue in my area, and went to three bars. Maybe all my friends will drop me except the BF I went with, the people who were also at the bars, the people to whom I paid large and small sums of money before a lockdown, and the people I eventually help by giving or sharing with them things they need when they are truly unavailable or inaccessible.

  23. For those who live in apartment buildings where you need to be in elevators to get in and out, how much are going coming and going — even to go outside for a walk? Part of me is like — I’m doing everything I can (hand washing, only going to the grocery store 1x/wk, sanitize if I must touch things when out, pushing elevator buttons w elbow/doors w sleeve etc.) so don’t over think it THIS much. Part of me is like — eh is it necessary? We’ve been WFH since last Tuesday; I went out for groceries last Wed and used that time to walk around a bit first before actually going to the store — since I was leaving anyway, I stacked it up. Age 40, generally fine but with a cardiac issue.

    1. i have the same question. we live in an apartment building with very active 21 month old twins. sometimes they like to push their little doll strollers around the halls. they aren’t tall enough to reach a doorknob or elevator button, so the only thing they would be touching is maybe a low down part of a wall (which if you are not also a small toddler, idk why you would be touching it). also – we have to at least take the garbage to the garbage chute, which involves touching the door to the garbage room and then the handle for teh garbage chute. our building has hand sanitizer located right next to it, so that is what we are doing for now

      1. For garbage — what I normally do (not just right now) — I turn on my bathroom faucet before leaving the apt with the garbage. Luckily I can leave my door open as I walk down the hall, throw out the garbage, and then walk back in, dispense the soap with my wrist/forearm, water is already running, and wash hands. That way yes I’ve touched the chute and trash room door but I haven’t touched anything else until after hands are washed (this isn’t just for corona germs but also trash germs). People definitely don’t (or weren’t) doing this — I’ve seen tons of people walk their trash into the trash room and then proceed to push the elevator buttons to go downstairs so I definitely have always elbowed elevator buttons.

      2. I’d probably grab a tissue or paper towel, touch anything on the way to the garbage chute with that, and throw it in with the garbage (unless I had to touch stuff to get back, then I’d throw it away at home).

    2. In the same situation – 10th floor. I’m trying to minimize time in the elevator by walking down (our stairs are used very minimally). May try taking the stairs up for a few flights, but I’m not walking all the way up any time I want to leave.

      I’m also doing the thing of being aware of which hand I use to touch the garbage chute and washing immediately when I come in. Basically I wash my hands every time I come back into my apartment.

    3. Doc spouse here from below, I’m the one encouraging everyone to stay home and even I see the need to get outside. Just do it responsibly. Here is what we do (also in an apt), both to keep ourselves safe but probably more importantly to keep our household from spreading things DH comes into contact with at work:

      1. Kids in stroller in the elevator, even the 3yo who normally walks, so they don’t touch anything;
      2. I carry spray alcohol 70%, and spray every button, handle, etc both before and, importantly, after we touch it, and always touch with elbow/wrist/not fingertips;
      3. Don’t share elevators; wait for an empty one;
      4. When we are out on our walk, keep 6ft from anyone other than the four of us.

      DH follows the same system when going to and from work, in addition to a host of other procedures for scrubs and shoes etc so the shoes don’t enter the building. It’s intense but it is what is needed. Thank you to everyone asking the questions and gathering information on how to responsibly fight this.

  24. Anyone have recommendations for slippers? My much beloved pair are finally falling apart and my house’s floors are cold in the winter! I think these were Land’s End but open to other ideas. Hope you all are doing okay.

    1. I love the LL Bean Wicked Good slippers. Recently however I switched to a pair of Birkenstock clogs with shearling lining that I only wear inside – I needed the arch support. If my feet weren’t so messed up I’d be Wicked slippers for life.

      1. I love my Wicked Good LL Bean slippers. Occasionally they go on sale for 20% off.

    2. I love my Ugg Coquettes more than words can say, especially now that I know that my cobbler can replace the insoles (those always go first). I am on my second pair and I have a third pair stockpiled for when the second pair goes in for maintenance/cannot be repaired any more. I do not pay full price; I get discontinued styles at the Ugg outlet.

    3. Acorns. I prefer the faux fur bootie, but they also do nice slides, loafers, and moccasins. Great arch, sturdy sole.

    4. I got some slippers from a brand called Dena Lives for Christmas. They are comfy and warm, but also substantial enough to briefly go to the mailbox etc.

  25. I have a diagnostic mammogram scheduled this Friday, for what most likely is a benign condition (according to my ObGyn/radiologist friend).
    Would you go? My friend said I can go now or in 3 months, depending on the situation. I can cancel until the day before.

    I’m in the Midwest with no confirmed cases in my county (I know this doesn’t mean anything due to lack of testing).

    If I go, how should I protect myself? Wear a mask? Decontaminate myself before getting in my car? Shower with Lysol after???

    1. Yes, I would go. I would not wear a mask, but I would be careful not to touch my face while I’m there and would wash hands thoroughly and change clothes as soon as I got home, which is my general procedure for leaving the house these days. Are you literally not leaving your house? Because I’m not sure a mammogram at a doctor’s office is higher risk at this point than something like going to the grocery store – there are many more people in the grocery store each day and since this virus lives on surfaces for up to 9 days, if you touch the cart handles you’re exposing yourself to multiple days worth of people. Medical equipment is sterilized much better than grocery store cart handles.

      1. I’m not scared of the equipment but interacting with medical staff. Someone has to squash my upper half between the plates, there’s no keeping distance with that.

    2. You should consider it very likely that the Dr’s office will cancel your appointment for you.
      This seems to be the norm around here (southern CA).

    3. I’m in a similar boat for a derm appointment at the beginning of April. Currently taking a wait and see approach but probably planning to go. My derm books up 3+ months in advance and I’m an extremely moley person with a history so it’s not like I’m going for Botox (no offense to those that use Botox but this appt isn’t cosmetic). Would it really hurt me to wait 3 months? Probably not. Is the risk really that high that I should cancel? Also probably not, but I’m pregnant so I’m trying to balance the risk of corona with the risk of not taking care of general health issue.
      I’m assuming all the people that do go in for cosmetic purposes will cancel if they haven’t already and the office will be slower than normal, but that’s a gamble. I still haven’t decided yet.

  26. I am not normally a very paranoid person but this crisis has me checking my temperature every time I feel a twinge. I had a headache this morning and was convinced I had it. (I’m fine, btw.)

    1. Omg I know. EVERY headache or sniffle is cause for alarm over here. Can’t wait to be out of that phase, hopefully no worse for the wear.

    2. I’ve been doing the same. In a city where allergies are bad, and have definitely been having a cough, running nose and sneezing, which is par for the course for seasonal allergies which I deal with every year. I actually think it is smart to monitor my temperature daily, which will most likely be the first sign that it isn’t just allergies.

      1. Ugh same, I have horrible allergies pretty much year-round but they are particularly bad right now.

      2. yea, all the pollen-related symptoms aren’t helping my paranoia. Is my cough a reaction to post-nasal drip from the fact everything is yellow, or do I have coronavirus? Who knows! (no one, because we’re not testing)

        1. Yep! I convince myself at least once or twice a day that I have coronavirus, and then have to talk myself down, which I can’t do until I take my temperature and it is firmly in the 97s. I’m honestly ready for my office to go ahead and make us WFH so that I literally don’t leave the house.

          1. The other day (when it was cold):
            Me: “I have chills!”
            Husband: “Being cold does not mean you have chills…”
            Me: “Right. Gonna drink some tea.”

      3. I took my temp this morning because of this exact paranoia, haha. My seasonal allergies are progressing the exact same way they always do but this year: terror!!

    3. My almost 70 year old mom is living with us for the next week (long story) and I’ve been washing my hands about 200 times/day and trying not to touch any surfaces in the public areas of our house (only our bedroom/bathroom are considered private zones). It will be a huge relief when she goes home and we don’t have to worry about contamination within our own home, and just have to wash hands whenever we come in from the outside. I had a sore throat yesterday and must have taken my temperature about a dozen times.

    4. The people I know who work in daycare and eldercare are having their temperatures taken before they clock in every morning. Maybe making it a daily routine would help?

    5. I’m doing twice daily temperature checks (morning and evening) – especially because I live alone and don’t have someone to look at me and say ‘you look peaky, you’re sick.’
      I’m second guessing myself every time I clear my throat, though.

    6. Same! I don’t have a thermometer, so no idea what my temperature is, but I’ve had some vague sore throat/phlegm overnight/occasional cough thing that’s been going on for weeks (long before there were local cases in my area) that, after reading about how young people frequently have no/minimal symptoms, I’m now convinced is mostly asymptomatic coronavirus. (Narrator voice: It’s not coronavirus)

      1. Sounds exactly like seasonal allergies to me. Even if you haven’t had allergies in the past, I think it’s entirely possible you’re having them now because you’re paying more attention to minor symptoms like sore throat and post-nasal drip (which causes phlegm/cough).

        1. Yep, they’re so mild and intermittent that I probably wouldn’t have noticed them otherwise – and I occasionally get a dry cough from reflux, which gets worse when I’m stressed and, uh…

          So I’m social distancing and practicing good hygiene, not self-quarantining. :)

    7. I started having a little cough on the way to work and I thought “SUDDEN ONSET NON-PRODUCTIVE COUGH!” Then I realized that it was just probably the oak pollen coating everything.

    8. I have a lung disease. Every time I feel a little bit “off” (which is a lot…I have a chronic lung disease….), or cold, or have a headache, or my throat hurts I panic just a little. My temperature has stayed normal. I have allergies. I am fine. I will know if I am not fine, if this is anything like the onset of the flu.

      1. No, this hits you much less suddenly than the flu. That’s one of the major distinctions being made between the illnesses. Flu you go from 0 to “can’t get out of bed” in a matter of hours, whereas with COVID-19 you may be feeling mildly ill for days or weeks before more serious symptoms set in.

  27. I used to sit in Office A at the end of a dead hallway. I hacked all through last year with a chronic non-contagious ENT issue that I regularly see a doctor for.

    I am just now moved to Office B, with a door, near some cubes that grandmothers sit in. They still come to the office as I think they don’t want to WFH with their spouses and traffic is light. Do I say that my coughing is not Coronavirus (or that I don’t think I have it — it just showed up in our city)? I bought some cough drops so that I cough less, but I don’t want them overly worried or to think I’m the Coronavirus equivalent of an antivaxer.

    1. UK guidelines are to stay at home if you have a cough – can you WFH to avoid the issue?

      1. Ha — I live in the SEUS. Pollen is out. Everyone is coughing. [Which, now, is like being told an officemate’s kids have lice and everyone starts scratching their heads.]

    2. Oh sure, I’d tell them. “Hey, just wanted to let yall know I’m not being inconsiderate – I have this [thing] and I’ve had it for years and I’m not contagious.” And I’d probably put a sign on my door, too.

  28. Would love some job offer negotiating advice from the hive. I currently work for a local agency and applied for a position at a different local agency (same locality, just different agency). Under the local civil servant rules, an applicant who is lateraling from one agency to another cannot be paid less. I got an offer from the new agency (a position that I am extremely qualified for, far more so than my current position) and their solution was to demote me to a lower level position so they could pay me less (25K less, to be precise). The offer was from someone in the HR department, and they will be sending me a written offer today, but I’m basically trying to figure out how to best approach this. I’m absolutely not willing to accept the demotion or the pay cut, especially considering I know I am very qualified for the position, and I also know that they have offered pay increases to recruit former attorneys back to the job (I understand I’m not in that position, but I also know they aren’t likely to get candidates with my education and experience). DH wants me to communicate with the primary person who interviewed me (second in command at the agency, I never even met with #1, which is also weird to me) and basically explain to him why I deserve a pay increase, not a pay cut. What do all of you think the best approach here is? To be clear, while I am not happy in my current position, I do have a fair amount of schedule flexibility, very reasonable hours, and the people are nice (none of these things may be true in the new position). So if they aren’t willing to match my current salary, I’m definitely prepared to walk away without hesitation. That said, I think I would overall prefer the work at this new agency, so I’m trying to figure out a way to make it happen if I can.

    1. My wording would be “I am really excited to get your offer and would love to work for your agency. Currently I make $Y and the offer is for $Z. Can we discuss the salary and what flexibility you have?”

      It’s not a No. It’s trying to have a discussion.

      I absolutely wouldn’t take the offer. I’d find another job. I wouldn’t like a job at a place that didn’t value me, even if I could theoretically could love it b/c being valued is something I love even more.

      1. I think your last paragraph really sums up why this is bothering me so much. It’s so important for me to be valued and appreciated by my workplace, and I know that I will always harbor resentment if I take this position with a demotion and paycut. I will try to broach the conversation as soon I get the written offer. Thank you!

    2. Same locality, different agency, hmm…does that mean also within the same union and with a cross title section 70 transfer capacity?
      If so, it may be worth it to pursue that way.
      Personally, a bad taste at the beginning does not bode well for satisfaction.

  29. Advice on handling the anxiety of others regarding COVID-19? My firm has not (officially) moved to work from home. There are a few lawyers working from home in my small city law firm, but staff is still asked to report to work. In our office where only 4 or 5 people attend daily and can easily stay 6-10 feet from each other, one of the staff members is clearly having a significant anxiety related event. So much so that she appears to be on the verge of tears… This staff member is not my assistant, and I am relatively new at the firm – so I don’t want to overstep any boundaries. I gently encouraged, through my mentor, that the firm send out EAP information in addition to the “wash your hands” and no group meetings advisory. They did listen and sent out a nice message this morning.
    I really want to tell this staff member – you do not seem OK and I think you should call EAP for some telephonic counseling. But, again, I don’t know if that would be OK… Thoughts? On another, less generous note, her high (but understandable) anxiety is also increasing that of the other staff members and creating a lot of friction between herself, the other staff, and the lawyers remaining in the office.
    Contextual note – being North of the Border, the outbreak is not as severe yet here, we work in a small office and no one travels by public transit, or goes out for lunch, etc. We’re doing the best we can to limit any contact and maintain social distancing…

    1. She may feel pressured to be at work and she has a high-risk condition that she hasn’t shared- I would try to see if your firm could approve WFH for anyone who self-identifies as high risk. If she’s high-risk and is anxious (with good reason), EAP isn’t going to help. Being able to protect herself would. But she shouldn’t have to out herself.

      Could be other reasons, too- at risk family member, early pregnancy she’s worried about, just general anxiety that’s spiked with all this, etc but I think it would be helpful to everyone to allow people to WFH without judgment or pressure to come in, regardless of the local situation.

      1. She doesn’t need EAP counseling, she needs your employer to come to its senses and take reasonable precautions.

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