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Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Pleated Puff-Sleeve Silk Top

Navy pullover style with keyhole and button closure at back neck

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

A trendy, of-the-moment top is always nice, but sometimes you just need a timeless basic that goes with everything. This short-sleeved top from Rebecca Taylor looks like one of those basics that you’d reach for every week and buy in every color.

I would wear this navy top with a gray skirt suit for a perfectly appropriate interview look, or with a pair of navy trousers and a bright blazer for a more casual look.

The top is $295 full price at Bloomingdale’s — but today you can get 25% off — and comes in sizes XS–XL. It also comes in white, “red clay” ($206.50) and “azul blue” ($177).

Sales of note for 12.5

322 Comments

    2. I’m wearing mine today and it is honestly one of my favorite work pieces I own! So comfy and warm

      1. Do you ever wash it or just dry clean? I like the Factory ones because they are washable.

  2. What are some of the “extras” you do at your job that you don’t get pay or recognition for? Have the recent discussions around “quiet quitting” caused you to want to step back from or minimize any of them?

    For my part, I generally enjoy interviewing job candidates. However, this results in NO tangible benefit to my career that I can discern, so I have set myself a limit of one interview per month–beyond that, I can guiltlessly decline. I’ve also participated in mentoring programs, internship programs, organizing book clubs. As far as I can tell, no one cares, so I’m making a conscious effort to avoid filling my time with this essentially-unpaid work.

    1. For me, there is a very blurry line between being “of service,” which is pretty crucial in my higher-ed world, and declining low-value “unpaid” activities. There are a few things that I say no to, guilt-free, but there are many more where it would NOT be okay to decline, even though everyone recognizes that they are a drain on time and energy, lest being accused of not being a team player. I’ve been thinking about this a lot but haven’t come to any solid conclusions. I cut out the extras (book clubs, staff senate, other professional development programs) years ago.

      1. Amen to this, higher ed sister. This is a big piece of why people are leaving in droves, and I’m considering it at my next big anniversary (vesting!).

      2. Huh I feel the opposite. It’s so hard to get fired in higher ed (staff) and so many people here are completely terrible at their jobs that I feel like any good employee stands out just by doing their basic job well. I’ve never done any extra stuff at all, and get great reviews and pay increases (relatively speaking, lol). I’m pretty low level though and don’t manage anyone – maybe that’s the difference?

    2. This is horrifying (if you have a kid going off to uni, close your eyes) but anything student related. I know colleagues who are notoriously student-avoidant and they probably pump out way more publications than I do. I sleep better at night knowing I take the time to support students but it’s frustrating – I’m not actually qualified to provide support for learning disabilities or MH concerns, there’s no recognition for a job well-done, and there’s definitely a gendered dimension. I once came back from a student meeting saying “I hate it when they cry” and my male colleague had never had a student cry on them.

      2. Women absolutely get called on for that type of emotional labor. While I would never want a student to feel unsupported, it is a LOT to ask from people who aren’t necessarily trained in that type of work.

    3. I really like interviewing as well but do that more through alumni programs etc so its more volunteer work.
      At work I really like DEI work, and I’m one of the committee heads. I get some credit for it, seem like a team player etc, but not as much credit as I like doing it.

    4. Do you enjoy the optional activities? Do these provide some benefit to you, either personally or in career development? While I think it makes sense to prioritize, I believe it can be shortsighted to view everything through the lens of “am I being paid for the time I spend on this?” When I observe successful executives, part of their success is tied to community engagement, schmoozing with stakeholders, being in touch with the workplace. There’s the old adage of dressing for the job you want; I think the same is true for unpaid labor. And I love talking to other employees (with whom I don’t otherwise cross paths) about books, so I do the book club because I like it. I think each individual makes their own assessment based on goals and priorities.

      1. Exactly what I was coming here to say. It’s fine to step off the gas if that works for you career-wise but I wouldn’t take it as career advice on how to get ahead. Being asked to interview? Means your opinion is relevant and you shape who you work with. Means you meet people you otherwise wouldn’t both internally and externally. Means you learn what sounds ridiculous in an interview and how things play to others ears. You stop all that and you plateau. Work may not be everything to you, and it shouldn’t be, but it’s sure nice to be an MVP when it comes to getting promotions, bonuses. raises and avoiding layoffs.

        1. Yeah, declining interview requests seems very short-sighted. That’s a compliment to your skills and expertise!

          1. In some situations yes, but I work for a Fortune 500 company where the recruiting dept is completely separate from my management/client team and interview feedback is entered online, so no one with any input on my career knows or cares that I’m doing the interviews. I agree within a law firm or smaller company it could be more meaningful, especially if you’re part of debriefs with colleagues or more senior people.

    5. IT/ tech/organization issues, I’ve literally started hiding from my boss when I know I’m going to get roped into setting up the screen sharing or cameras for a meeting or some BS, it’s not my problem and it’s so s*xist.

      2. This is me on the IT/tech stuff. I don’t think it’s sexist, I think it’s generationalist (is that even a word?). “Let’s ask the millennial to do the tech things!”

    6. I’m in a career where a lot of “extras” come up all the time.

      Early on, I specifically thought through and wrote down my 3 passion subjects (and have edited them over time). If opportunities arise regarding these subjects, I’ll look more closely. If it’s not these subjects, it’s more likely a no.

      I’m also more likely to say yes to a direct request than a general group request.

    7. When did this become the place for underachievers? Isn’t there another board somewhere for this?

        1. Some extras are fluff. Some are key things for an MVP to have.

          Office potluck vs mentoring / hiring stuff.

          1. It might be hard to be a true overachiever if you denigrate people by calling them pejorative nicknames because you will not be well liked or respected.

          3. Please come back in ten years and tell us where you’ve landed. I’ve seen way too many hard-driving, hard-charging, go-getter overachievers run out of gas and lean way out (or drop out) of their careers because didn’t learn early enough that activity and outcomes have to correlate for there to be benefits. Frantically running around doing “stuff” all the time isn’t the blueprint for success you’re saying it is. If it’s worked for you, great. But some of us like having a real life vs. donating all of our free time to our employer.

        1. Except when the boundary excuses core job expectations. If your job is 40 hours, it’s quiet quitting if you are now doing 32 but adding the gym back as self-care.

          1. I thought we were talking about extra stuff that you’re not paid or recognized for? It seems like those activities won’t lead to career advancement, and it’s totally fine to have boundaries around not doing that. No one said anything about slacking off on core job expectations.

          2. But what kinds of jobs have forty hours as a core job expectation?

            If this is a customer service line, and phones went unanswered for eight hours a week, then okay, the core job expectations weren’t performed.

            But if there’s no way to tell the difference (for example, if the time at the gym improves productivity to the point that 40 hours of work are now getting done within 32 hours), who cares?

      3. High achievers know that it pays to be able to identify the small stuff you can cut out so you can focus on the bigger stuff with better payoff.

        1. This. You can’t quiet quit anything but the time s*cks that truly don’t matter. Take that time and invest it in yourself (note to self: not 30 minutes of Reels).

        3. Agreed.
          Also, there’s always a skill to be learned in anything you do. Interviews = asking good questions, pinning down answers, evaluating options. So if you feel like you’ve gotten all you need out of this task, move on to something else.
          Try serving on a committee or a Board to gain leadership and governance skills. Try heading up a committee or being President of a Board to gain even more of those skills and to learn delegation and management skills. Plus a ton of other stuff. You’ll do it for free at first, but if you get good at it, all kinds of opportunities will open up.
          Try giving a presentation or leading a workshop to better your speaking and teaching skills and to be seen as an expert in your field.
          Maybe you know all of this already and I’m projecting my frustration over a number of young attorneys at my firm who feel all they need to do is show up for 40 hours a week and work on billable work to be successful. There appears to be a complete disconnect with the idea that doing stuff for free is not actually free – what you get back are the substantive skills you gain – and then one day, someone WILL pay you for it. And I guess, if you’re doing something that gives you absolutely zero substantive experience, swap it out for something that does give you some.

        4. Ding ding ding. Drop the committee that drains your time and add the high visibility work that raises your profile.

    8. Being one of the few people who is back in the office full time, so much falls into my lap because I’m the first face a person sees for rows and rows of empty cubicles. The upside is running into upper management and having good conversations.

    9. I think quiet quitting is great, if you are on the verge of loud quitting. If not, you either mean “having normal boundaries and calling it something trendy” or “refusing to do my job.”

      I view myself as a professional. I don’t have a list of set job duties and beyond that I don’t do work. That’s what a union worker does. Refusing to do anything extra would get me loud fired quickly. Instead I do things like discuss priorities and delegate.

        1. Is true though. Have had a “work the line” experience that was so hostile at me when I was the parent wanting my school’s paraprofessional to give my kid the IEP/504 stuff he needed and was entitled to. “Not my specific job.”

          2. IDK — a kid needs services. IIRC, kids have rights to this. It’s not a nice-to-have but a need-to-have. I would be livid, too.

          3. I’m sorry, that must have been so hard and unfair to your kid. I know that when I worked as a special education para during summer school one year, I had to help students with toileting/wiping, got spit on, had my glasses broken, and all for like $10 an hour. It’s very low wage, difficult job. And some tasks are legally required to be done by a certified teacher, not the paraprofessional staff. Your problem was really with the school district not having appropriate staffing.

      2. I agree with you, except I think you have a limited view of unions. Academic workers (grad students, post grads, faculty) are the largest growing sector of unionization in the US (or at least they were before the pandemic). All those jobs have badly defined goals and expectations (because science is open ended by nature), and lots of extracurriculars. However, a union can still do stuff like setting minimum standards for salary, contract length, harassment protections and similar, while not getting involved in the actual work tasks.

        1. I really don’t get this. Stuff that is dangerous, like coal mining, absolutely. But people in danger of paper cuts? It’s office work. IDK why it is unionized in some places (government offices, which you think would be better than private sector) but generally isn’t (and I’m not aware that it is materially different depending on if you’re in a union place or not).

          I also get it for electricians (like IBEW has apprenticeships and does job placement) but not for, say, tax lawyers (had a friend at the IRS and he mentioned union meetings).

          1. Let me give you an example:

            My BIL was a teacher (the operative word being “was”). The principal of his school kept calling him in on weekends and during holidays/vacations to do work that was way outside his job description and for which he was not paid (including mowing the football field). Then he added mowing his own law to the list. And my BIL did it because the principal had the power to fire him and BIL would have had basically no recourse because he worked in a rural school district with no union and no alternate school jobs (he would have had to move). But when another opportunity became available, he jumped at it. And now another junior teacher is mowing the principal’s lawn.

            That would have never happened where I live because BIL could have complained to the union and would have had protections against being fired. Unions give workers bargaining power that individual workers do not have.

          2. Yeah, I had a strong union in a blue state while teaching and I still got asked to do all sorts of bullsh!t like this on weekends and late nights because I needed to “do it for the kids” and show that I was “part of the school community”. It happens really frequently to young and/or single teachers and it suuuuucked. When I finally went to my union, the requests finally died down.

          3. Academia is a quagmire of metoo and related issues. Even the stuff that seemed normal at the time seems wildly unethical and unprofessional now that I’m out.

          4. The reason things tend to be unionized in public sector, while comparable jobs in the private sector are not, comes down entirely to legal protections of union activities, which differs for these sectors.
            It sounds to me like you have a very defined concept in your mind about the purpose of unions (your references are pretty much limited to physical-harm type scenarios), and I don’t really know why that is. Historically, unions are credited for much broader things like the idea of a minimum wage, overtime, and a five day workweek. Those didn’t exist before employees organized and lobbied as a group.

            Not every industry pays workers according to the value they provide, think about nurses for example. They are skilled, nothing would run without them, there is big money in health care, but they are not paid appropriately, which is true across the industry. Btw, you find similar circumstances in many skilled jobs that attract idealistic folks into a ‘calling’ (non-profit, teaching, research, arts, politics, social work, the list goes on). Of course, any individual employee has the choice to switch into a more lucrative career (although if you are paycheck to paycheck that choice is very theoretical). On the other hand, society can’t afford for nobody to work in nursing. In a sense, a union is really just a vehicle for a group of employees to say ‘here are the conditions I am willing to do this job for – otherwise I am out’.

          5. Government tends to be unionized to insulate “the help” from “the politics.” Meaning if a new boss is elected, the new boss doesn’t bring entirely new staff with to City Hall, the Sheriff’s Office, etc…

      3. Yikes. The point of a union is strength in numbers for worker protections. Protections aren’t just health and safety, it is also about getting an appropriate and fair deal from your employer for your time and expertise! I have been glad to be in unions that, for example, argued for certain supports for international travel, a sabbatical year after a certain time with the organization, and against major changes to organizational hierarchies.

    10. I really like interviewing, too, and I think I’m good at it. Are you helping other departments when you interview? It might put you on someone’s radar who could help you later on. But that may not be the case.

      I’ve always had trouble figuring out what’s “other duties as assigned” and “that’s not my job.” I’m not cleaning the kitchen but I’m knowledgeable and willing to help, so sure I’ll stop what I’m doing and help you! People like me but I don’t know that it’s helped my career in a meaningful way.

      1. Oh I see your comment about the recruiting department and it makes sense to decline some of the interviews.

    11. I’m “quiet quitting.” For me, this means I work my 80hr weeks, and I’m not checking into work at 10pm after I’ve put the kids to bed and putting in another extra hour.

      2. A world in which you “quiet quit” by working 80 hours is horrifying. I’m sorry you have to work so much!

    12. I love interviewing candidates because it helps me bring people into our organization who will be strong contributors and positive additions to our culture. I also have to set limits on how much I do it, but I say yes a lot, because I think it’s so important.

      Low value for me: planning office social activities. I don’t throw parties in my personal life; I don’t like parties/big gatherings and I honestly don’t care enough about the little details (do the flowers match the napkins?) to really do a good job with it. I have tried to host routine office happy hours, book clubs, etc. before and if I can start them, and they catch on and then other people want to get involved in the planning, great. If I’m the only one doing the scheduling, I let them die. IMO being the office social butterfly never helped me in my career; volunteering to take on tough projects other people weren’t enthusiastic about helped way more. And I’d rather spend my time doing that anyway.

    13. I’m leaning into the beauty of half-a$$ing it, or perhaps more generously, delegating and being a good team leader. I was really trepidatious about taking on leadership roles for “extras” but a bunch have sort of plopped in my lap lately. It turns out that leadership roles actually involve assigning tasks and setting/leading meetings and telling people how awesome and appreciated they are and not so much actually doing the work. Which is totally different from my actual job where I seem to get stuck doing all the work of my juniors who do stuff late or inadequately and also my seniors who are focused on other matters and forget they were supposed to do a thing despite my repeated pleading – ahem – reminding. So I guess my advice is, find a role where you can have some visibility to show that you’re being a good citizen of your organization and also showcase your leadership skills aka herding cats who do all the actual work.

    14. I am now a sole proprietor so I have to do everything (so sexist!!) but even now I have a tendency to over-yes with volunteer things for my professional organization. I spent years and years in corporate America, starting in 1987!, and I can’t tell you how many times I was expected to do things like hand out name tags at events that they would never, ever in a million years have asked a man to to, even a man several levels below my rank in the company. I got pretty good at spotting stuff like this and saying no.

      Only do the stuff you want to do, OP. If you enjoy it and have time, do it. But only the most insane boss is going to make you do the fluffy stuff when you have too much real work to do/a deadline/a client meeting. (Please note the items in that last sentence because they are your get out of jail free cards.)

  3. It’s been raining since Friday in NYC! Anyone want to help me shop? I’m looking for a nice professional dress for a cocktail event with clients in two weeks (mid October NYC). The event is cocktail but I will be coming straight from work (and I suspect most other people will be doing so as well) so I want to wear a dress or outfit that I can go straight to the event in from work. I am thinking something like the Fold, with crisp lines and good tailoring. Any other recs?

    1. Boden Plisse dress — I’m a short-waisted short-torso pear and 5-4, so often the dimensions of dresses are a challenge. It fit perfectly (an 8 for me), which usually never happens, especially on the first try.

    3. If you need it quickly I’d order from the Fold today (they’re having a 20% off discount at the moment) or go to MMLaFleur or Bloomingdales to look at something from Reiss, Boss, or Theory.

  4. Good morning. For those of you who have used Wegovy, what type of Dr prescribed this to you? Trying to decide if my GP is the direction I should take…. Or another approach. Thank you

    1. I asked for Wegovy at my annual physical from my GP. I haven’t started it yet – we just met yesterday – but I did receive a text from CVS letting me know that the prescription was received and is on order.

      I have friends that are using an online resource called Calibrate to get counseling and similar prescription weight control drugs.

      1. I’m anon from below. Heads up: Mine was “on order” from CVS, promised “the next day,” for nearly two weeks. There is a big shortage of the medication, and they full on stopped producing the low dose / starter dose to deter physicians from prescribing it during the shortage. I guess there’s a component of the self-injectable pen that is hard to source causing the delay. The Wegovy website offers some insight in to this.

        I called no less than two dozen pharmacies looking for the medication during those two weeks and some were blunt in telling me that it would still be months.

      2. I have been using calibrate to access (and have found the coaching to be helpful but not revolutionary) but it is certainly less expensive if you can get a GP to prescribe instead and don’t want the extra assistance (I find the plan to be similar to noom in terms of curriculum with a focus on redusing simple carbs). Have been slowly but steadily losing on Ozempic and am at just over 20 lbs since May 1st (hoping to be at 25 down by the end of the month). I have PCOS and have never successfully lost more than 10 lbs through diet and exercise focused plans in my adult life so it has been a game changer for me.

    2. PCP. I was prescribed it in July and spent a week and a half trying to find it and could not. So I went back to my PCP and she put me on Ozempic, which is the same active ingredient as Wegovy / also a semaglutide. I’m down 30 lbs in 3 months and thrillllllled. I’m also on WW, simultaneous to starting Wegovy.

      1. Thank you so much for your advice and steer. I’ve heard such great things about it and want to start the discussions (if possible).

        1. FWIW, my insurance covered Ozempic. I have heard some will not but my doctor said she was specific in her notes that it was being Rx’d for this reason and she thinks that’s why they approved it, vs them seeing the Rx and no diabetes diagnosis and rejecting it. Good luck. I’ve never felt so in control of food in my life. Like, food / hating my body / general mental unwellness from all the above DOES NOT CONTROL ME any more, and that’s all caps because if it has ever controlled you, you know how huge that is.

          1. Thank you very much to you all for the helpful and encouraging advice. I appreciate it greatly and will report back.

  5. Best silk thermals?

    My otherwise low maintenance husband can’t seem to stand the synthetic ones. Ironically, I am usually the one who insists on natural fibers, but when I’m cold I guess I don’t care as much!

      1. I concur on Lands’ End. Usually in October or November, there is one or more promotions where everything is 50% off. That’s when I buy mine. Side recommendation to the hive: these are great for wearing under clothes for outdoor meetups, but I have also slipped them under work clothes when I know I will be in a frigid conference room all day. They take up next to no space and are smooth, so clothes slip over easily.

        1. Yes — most of my thermal layering (partial to HeatTech currently) is done inside Class A office buildings.

      2. Thanks, I will give them a try!

        And yes, I have absolutely used thermal base layers to combat office AC. Right now I’m using them to take WFH onto my porch a little longer.

    2. My XH was a policeman who had a walking beat. He swore by the LL Bean silk long underwear

  6. Reposting to see if there are more responses on the aniline leather for couches in a sloppy kid / spouse / dog household. What I am googling is that with aniline leather, things may buff out and I will just love the patina (true: I love a good patina). Also, that any coated leather will be less capable of having a patina when the coating wears off (which it will with high use); at that point, it looks bad-worn vs patina-lovely. Finally, I really don’t want a light leather of any type in a high-use area (so I was hoping for a cognac / whiskey color, but maybe go back to our prior leather couch colors, which were a darker gray and an oxbloodish-burgundy color). I think that the last nugget is possibly the most true (sadly), but I’m interested in any leather furniture thoughts and advice you all have. [And for all of this — IMO leather of any sort may be more durable than a performance velvet, which I’m really skeptical of, as only ugly fabrics last in my birth family’s furniture; lovely things get draped with towels to protect them.]

    1. I’ve bought several leather pieces and what we were told was that a protected leather is going to give you a uniform look and be very durable for scratch/stain protection (some protected leathers you can run your car keys over them and they come out fine). However, once it’s scratched deeply, it’s scratched, and there’s nothing you can do about it. It doesn’t “patina” in the sense that the color shouldn’t ever really change, it’s just adding scratches / damage which IMO looks really bad (our last couch was 10+ years old and protected, so when it got really scratched down it was done). For natural leather (aniline) it just depends on how obsessive you are about the natural wear and if it bothers you. We got a Moore and Giles Mont Blanc leather (youtube it and they have a great video of them spilling all kinds of things on it) and I love it. My husband also loves it, but is obsessive about the scratches. And I guess lastly, look up photos of really beat up leather pieces. I love them still. I wish I had a link but there was a post in apartment therapy where someone’s cats had scratched up the backs of their aniline leather chairs and I thought they still looked so cool. But here’s the other thing–all furniture will wear out eventually. A protected chair might look the same as the day you got it for 7 years, and then the last 3 years of life start to look damaged. Or an aniline might look perfect for 5 years, and then start to gradually show patina/wear through the last 5. Just depends on your household.

      1. Thanks — this is super helpful! I have some swatches and will definitely watch the videos.

    2. Ok, this might be a little off topic. But I was in a leather couch rabbit hole hunt for a quite a while. I was having a hard time pulling the trigger on one given I have a toddler, sloppy husband, and dog. On a whim I bought a “Rivet” leather couch from the “River store” on Prime day. It’s the best $1k I’ve spent. I was specifically looking for an apartment sized couch, so their smaller sizes were perfect for me. We’ve had it for a couple of months and I’m pretty impressed with it. It’s actual leather. I’ve had my home on the market, and even had realtors/potential buyers asking where I got the couch it looks that good. I also am not going to have lots of tears if something does happen to it because it was fairly cost effective.

  7. Thanks to the Mass ladies who chimed in previously about where to live if my husband takes a job flying out of BOS. (We want an older, preferably antique, house on a couple acres on a budget of $1.25.) We’re going up to check out various towns this weekend. We’re trying to be as efficient as possible, and I need a little on-the-ground insight: what’s the deal with Pepperell and Billerica? Homes there are noticeably cheaper than other towns. What am I not seeing online? We’ll skip them and save the time if they aren’t desirable places to live.

    FWIW, we’re checking out two “cones” this trip: 1) west of 95, north of 20, south of 3, and east of 190; and 2) north of 95, east of 93, south of 495, and west of 1.

    Thanks, all.

    1. The reason they’re cheaper is that the schools have a reputation as not that great. If you don’t have kids or are comfortable paying for private school I wouldn’t worry about it.

      1. Ehhhh, I’d push back on this a little bit. It’s not that the schools aren’t good, it’s that they have a higher number of ESL and/or lower income students who don’t test as well as the rich, white kids in the W towns. I know many people who send their kids to Billerica public schools (not as familiar with Pepperell) and they are all very happy with the education their children are getting.

        Houses in these cities are cheaper because they are considered to be less “exclusive” than the others in the area, like Winchester, Carlisle, Westford, Bedford and Burlington. They zone for more businesses and apartments which means their taxes are lower and they attract people with lower (average!) incomes. They are also further away from Boston proper.

      2. Ah, ok. Schools not great like violence or like ESL students perform lower on standardized tests and make the district look poorly on paper? Totally ok with the latter, not at all with the former.

        1. Wow — places with 7-ish figure houses have bad schools. To my mind, that totally does not compute. Now I’m interested . . .

          2. She wants a huge amount of land, that’s why it’s 7 figures. You can get a perfectly nice house in Billerica for mid-six figures.

            OP, I’m not super familiar with those school districts but I would guess somewhere in between your two examples? If you have kids you’d want to send to public school, definitely talk to locals.

          3. In my city, one can buy a home for multi millions, with schools that would not even be under consideration, at any level from pre-k through high school. There is no amount that one can spend on a house in the city that would get decent schools, period.

          4. I feel like that’s all major cities? NY, Oakland, San Jose, Boston, certain parts of NJ/CT, etc. Housing in (or close to) cities is expensive but you also have lots of apartments/ESL students/etc.

          5. 10:35 — which city is that? And yet, it is a city, people live there. Do rich people just go to spendy private schools and the rest jockey for slots in cheaper alternatives like Catholic schools? Or do people live there if they are kid-free and if you have kids, move to the suburbs before they enter K? Can think of places where there are no children b/c of the schools (but kids are in the next catchment area over) and still others where no families will move to the area b/c there aren’t even mediocre schools available at any price (so I know random people who live there who homeschool and would never homeschool otherwise).

          7. It’s true in Seattle. But then if you cut the stats by race, our 5/10 schools are 9/10s for the white kids. Funfunfun.

    2. Probably a snobby response from a life-long Bostonian (that doesn’t live in a “W / N” wealthy suburb, fwiw): skip Billerica and Pepperell.

      What are your other towns? Promise to not blacklist them all!!

      1. Not a lifelong Bostonian, but agree with this. The last time I moved house in Boston, the moving company was based in Billerica. There’s nothing wrong with that, but that’s also not the city I want to live in.

        1. You don’t want to live in a town that has a moving company? Major eyeroll on this.

          1. You don’t understand Boston–there are towns that are gorgeous and residential, and towns that are more industrial. Billerica is more industrial and working class. In fact, it’s pronounced “Bill-ricaaaah” in Boston, because that’s how the locals say it. It’s not a tony suburb. For that budget, OP could find a nicer area.

      2. I lived in a W town for eight years. Billerica is a fine town, but, AFAIK, lacks a Commuter Rail into Boston. It lacks the close-up amenities of towns on 128, or the spacious land of towns near 495.

        FYI, OP, it’s pronounced “Bill-ricka,” no e.

    3. I was just in Pepperell for work yesterday. It took me 1.5 hrs from Boston proper without any traffic. It is a regional, rural school district with several towns. I can’t comment on quality, but it isn’t a Boston suburb.

    4. OP here. Thanks for the replies!

      This trip, we have:

      – In Cone 1, Acton, Carlisle, Stow, Boxborough, Harvard, Littleton, Ayer, Groton (recommended here), and Natick. (A bit out of this range to the south, we have Dover and Medway if we have time.)

      – In Cone 2, Andover, Boxford, Georgetown, Haverhill, West Newbury, Merrimac (recommended here). And Rowley a bit to the east. There are lots of houses in Georgetown and Boxford that would meet our needs, so we’re particularly curious to see those.

      We don’t need Boston itself and aren’t aiming for “Boston suburbs,” per se. We just need to be about 90 minutes to the airport for my husband’s off-peak, once or twice per week commute. (To be clear, he’s a pilot. I said that in my original post but not this one.) I work remotely and would need the airport only once a month or so. I don’t think a commuter line is important to us aside from the nicety of Saturday trips to the city?

      What’s a W or N town?

      And thanks for the Billerica pronunciation! I was definitely pronouncing it bill-er-eka 😉

      1. Oh! And another question: WHY do all these houses have swimming pools?! I mean, easily 60%, if not more, of the listings we’re looking at have pools – it’s like Florida with all the pools! But you guys have, what, 6 weeks of 80-degree weather? Having a pool seems like an enormous cost-sink compared to the number of days per year it’s usable. We’d honestly fill a pool in if we were to buy a house with one – we don’t want the liability or the maintenance. (We do want a home orchard of 20 or so fruit and nut trees, which is partly why we want a little land.)

        1. 1. Solar covers. That plus two solid months of summer weather is enough for a pool.
          2. At least “back in the day,” a lack of good municipal pools. Combine that with minimum lot sizes of a half acre or an acre, and why not just put in the pool?

      2. I love all the towns in 1 and 2. Haverhill (pronounced: Hay-vrill) is a bit more gritty and schools are nothing to write home about (prob the same as Billerica).

        Acton, Carlisle, Dover have superior school systems and are prob among the most expensive. Andover, too. If I didn’t have to be in downtown daily, I’d live in Andover. Alas, I do, and so I live in Reading.

        I have family and friends in Medway and Medfield that love it. Goods schools. Georgetown is next to Groveland – have you looked there? I have family with three young-ish kids that bought a farm sprawl there and adore it.

        W/N refers to Weston, Wellesley, Newton, Needham — think Mass Pike/West $$$$$ towns. I’d put Hingham/Cohasset in the same tier to the South and Lexington/Concord to the north west. Andover to the due north is not quite the same level but not far off, either.

        1. Glad to hear the towns we narrowed in on pass r e t t e muster – thank you! :)

          1. Parts of it, absolutely. Excellent schools so it tracks. There are still some good deals to be had but I’d put it on the lower probability list of those towns you mention.

      3. You’ll definitely hear some town names that are not pronounced the way you think they should be. FYI, Haverhill is “Hay-vril.”

        W towns = Wellesley, Weston, Wayland, i.e. some of the most expensive suburban ZIP codes in America.
        N towns = Needham (Need-am), Natick (Nay-tick).

        1. You’ll definitely hear some town names that are not pronounced the way you think they should be. FYI, Haverhill is “Hay-vril.”

          W towns = Wellesley, Weston, Wayland, i.e. some of the most expensive suburban ZIP codes in America.
          N towns = Needham (Need-am), Natick (Nay-tick).

          1. Isn’t Carlisle always pronounced that way? I don’t think it’s a MA thing. Reading is weird though.

          2. I’m the Reading resident. My husband, who is not native to the area, still giggles when he says the “Reading Police”.

  8. If you have a common name, what is your personal email address for job searching? My husband has never had a real adult email address other than work. He’s applying for jobs and needs to put something on his resume that isn’t, lovesbeer42@(whatever). My personal email account is just my first and last name, but I locked that down forever ago when the internet was a baby. It feels like anything available to him is like johnsmith203772917448@…. What do people with common names do for a grown up sounding personal email address?

    2. Mine is first and middle initials + last name. Try messing with that? jasmith? johnasmith? johnalexandersmith? etc. I also like the idea of adding a city abbreviation or even a state.

      2. A word of caution with this, especially if the middle initial is the same as the last letter of first name of first letter of last. My husband’s email is first name last name and someone else with the same name has first name, middle initial, last name. Think johnsmith vs johnnsmith.

        My husband gets loads of his emails because people look at it and think it’s a typo (including from places where the person has clearly typed his own address in, but forgotten the middle initial)

    3. adding the middle initial between first/last name, or using first and middle initials followed by last name, have worked for creating my personal/professional email and an email for my tween.

    4. What about johnsmithactuary or johnsmithaccountant? Add middle initial, zip code, area code as necessary if those are taken as is.

    5. Mine is firstlast25@(whatever).com. The number 25 just seemed innocuous – it means nothing to me.

      1. My husband’s is lastfirst1000. It’s easy to remember and less potentially loaded then, say, a birth year.

    7. I have a friend who was LastFirst01@provider. I would sometimes type in LastFirst1 in a hurry and invited LastFirst1 to happy hour by mistake. LastFirst1 sent me an e-mail that she was NOT happy to be getting e-mails not meant for her and to never contact her again. I made the correction and secretly wanted to sign LastFirst1 up for someone to please contact her re Amway or LuLaRoe or essential oil opportunities.

      1. In contrast, my dad’s email address without the number at the end is a lovely man in Australia who sent me a very sweet note.

      2. I got the firstname.lastname at the domain everyone uses back in 2005. I get a lot of emails for other women. One dude asked me on a date. One GYN office sends me reminders. One woman in upstate NY keeps putting my email address down – I get her credit card statements, psychiatry appointment reminders, the whole bit.

    8. Could he add a middle initial?

      I have a very, very common first name for my age (Sarah) but a very, very uncommon last name so I don’t have this problem and not sure if this advice is helpful

    9. Not going to help much as it requires a time machine, but I jumped on my common name email way back when.

      1. How do I do this? Curious b/c my kid has the same name as a provocative person who may always be the first google result. It’s funny now, but may not be later.

        1. domains com – I pay for my firstnamelastname domain, as I plan to eventually use it to build out for speaking and consulting work, but they offer the option to add on the email address option and I think with that it is still only around 40 a year.

        2. I buy my firm’s domain name from Network Solutions. I inherited it (I literally bought the firm from a terminally ill owner, my long-time employer), so I have n idea how their pricing compares.

    11. fullfirstname.middleinitial.lastname@. Here’s a trick with gmail: the dots are meaningless, so even if someone forgets to include them, you still get the email, but it makes it a little easier to read and not have typos.

      1. Also, try alternate email platforms. Like everything is taken on gmail, but outlook isn’t as popular and probably has more options, and you can always set it to forward to your real email.

          1. If you choose proton mail, I would assume you were very information security conscious (whereas hotmail or yahoo would get you tagged as a little out of touch, and your name as your domain kind of on top of it).

            I promise I don’t discriminate based on people emails when hiring, but it does send a signal.

    12. I used my college email address but transferred it to a non-college email provider. So my college email address was first initial last name random numbers @ college .edu and now my email is dirst initial last name random numbers @ yahoo or whatever

    13. Years ago here somebody recommended the first two letters of first, middle, last names and that has worked well for me. Like Senior Olivia Attorney becomes seolat@gmail.

    14. I’ve seen people use name + profession or field. For example- JohnSmithIT@, JaneDoeDesigner@, that kind of thing.

    16. I don’t have a gmail for this reason, but I do have an iCloud and an email from my internet provider, sonic, that is first.last or first_last. I’ve never really liked the firstlast format – maybe it’s just my name but it’s not super readable for me – you can’t tell where my first name ends and my last name begins. It just looks like one big word to my eyes.

    17. I have a long name, like Elizabeth Jane Lydia Bennett. So I combine my first and middles into initials: ejl.bennett@whatever

  9. As I’ve grown more senior, It’s becoming more obvious to me that I need to build some real savvy to navigate the organization and situations that may present themselves- basically reading and managing office politics. I know the details of this are very context and organization dependent, but it would be great to hear about others’ experiences and what you all learned/what you now do differently. Any thoughts?

    1. I’ve done this exclusively by cultivating a trusted mentor who is good at politics and willing to help.

        1. this. I’m not great at decoding politics but I’ve made it a point to start tactfully asking questions like – can you help me understand how this project impacts our firm goals, who is the sponsor/funding this work, are their people in the pipeline for promotion you’d like me to loop in for awareness/extra insights/training? Basically – try ot understand where the money is going and why, who is in charge and who is being groomed to be in charge, what their goals (and the overall firm goals are). Then start explicitly positioning yourself/your work as able to help them achieve their goals or as directly in line with overall business unit/firm goals.
          I’ve been shocked (well, less so as I grow in my career) at how many people are ready to burn it all down vs. gracefully accept that business unit/firm goals have changed in a way that impacts their group’s goals/work and tweak plans to align with that. I got a new boss almost 15 years ago because a previous boss literally refused to train her global counterpart, issued an ultimatum (him or me) and then was SHOCKED when she was let go. For good measure she tried to tank my yearly review on her way out (I’m still proud of myself for refusing to sign off on it and elevating it to my new boss who re-wrote the entire review).

    2. Following because I am terrible at this, and have realized it’s probably a big part of why I haven’t advanced into a leadership role.

    3. I’ve said it before but you need to make friends at work. Actual friends. Being heads down and introverted means you miss out on what’s going on. Quiet quitting so you’re focused on yourself and not helping others means you annoy people. I’m not saying you do these things, but I see a lot of people who do and then wonder why they are stepping on toes and not getting promotions, Helping people, mentoring, having friends junior and senior to you helps you figure it all out.

      1. I’m not really stereotypically good at office politics, but I’m good at making friends at work. And that seems to has worked well too.

        At my company one office has a reputation for much better “vibes” than the other office. One of the major complaints is that in the quieter office no one says hi to you when you arrive in the morning and enter the main room. The heads down thing is fine, but it doesn’t exactly come off as warm and friendly to someone you see every day.

      2. I would co-sign this, and would also say that you do not necessarily have to make friends “strategically” (which I actually think is gross). I am not an extrovert, but I am naturally interested in people. Demonstrating genuine interest in someone’s life leads to casual friendships, or at least friendly relationships with the people I work with. Those friendly relationships have helped me tremendously in the past – including when I needed to get out of a bad situation where an office bully was tanking our group’s performance, we were under the microscope at the executive level, and our boss was too ineffectual to do anything about it. I had a friend in another department who helped me move into an open position they had that they morphed somewhat to fit my skills. It wouldn’t have happened if she and I hadn’t been friendly.

        I personally can always tell when people are operating in a Machiavellian way and “cultivating” me for their own purposes, vs. just being friendly. Don’t manipulate people, and don’t think about relationships in terms of “what can this person do for me.” And you don’t have to go way out of your comfort zone and become the “office mom” or the office party planner/socialite either. Just be genuinely interested in people, be friendly, be open to conversations that aren’t about work. Be the person you’d want to work with.

        1. I feel like there’s something wrong with me because I lack this genuine interest.

          People have told me that they appreciate me as a good listener, my empathy, and things like that, so I’m not sure it’s come up as a problem?

          But I have only non-genuine interest because I just can’t seem to drum up actual interest. I don’t think “be the person you’d want to work with” helps me either. I truly don’t want to be roped into conversations that aren’t about work even if I recognize it’s an expectation that I can non-genuinely fulfill.

          1. If this helps. Things I like talking to people about:
            – Their pets (I love animals)
            – Where they’ve traveled (love to hear about great places to go)
            – If they have any fun or offbeat hobbies (got into a great conversation one day with a senior exec at my previous company about kitesurfing, which he traveled several times a year to do)
            – Food, as in, their favorite places to eat or the best restaurant they’ve ever eaten in
            Everyone has a story about something, and people love telling their stories. I have also learned useful and/or interesting things I can apply in my own life from these casual conversations. When people launch into their life story from birth, I tend to start tuning out. But when they start telling me about this awesome El Salvadorean restaurant they just went to, hey – I love food, and I am always interested in finding a great new place to eat. So maybe it’s not so much being interested in people as leveraging my own interests into being interested in whatever they have to say? LOL

          2. I don’t think this has to be about private chitchat, necessarily. How long have you been in this job/running this program, how do you like being on xyz team, what did you think of last week’s event, are you going to upcoming big-conference are all fine work-related chitchat topics. Once you get to know a person better, it’s how did you approach xyz task, have you ever come across this problem, do you know the context for xyz decision that we are implementing, all the nuances that we don’t get to on zoom.

          3. That all does help!

            It makes me wonder if my office is in a rut of everyone kind of faking this stuff and giving non-genuine after all the weirdness of the lockdowns and remote work. I’ll use these tips to try to work on this.

      3. Also, those folks will rise with you. Your “class” will become your “partners” – to use law firm jargon, but it translates to other industries. And if they’re not your “partners” they’ll be your “clients” and “referral sources.” Enjoying your job and the people you work with helps a lot, and they can help you navigate.

    4. I don’t know that I excel at office politics, but I haven’t stepped in it *too* badly. Part of it is building relationships with certain individuals so you’re aware of what’s going on outside your own department. It’s also a lot of careful observation and learning to read between the lines of what’s being said, which again, comes back to relationships. Figuring out that line between information sharing and just plain gossip. Learning to see the big picture and how everyone’s work fits into it is huge.

    5. If your organization has any chief of staff type roles, befriend them. They are generally the best at this. If there is a leader that you think does this well, especially if you have visibility to them in meetings, ask them to be your mentor on this topic/ executive presence. It’s really helpful to be able to watch them in action in meetings, and then you can discuss afterwards what they did/ why/etc. My big tips are help make people look good, surprise no one, assume everyone is related/friends until you know otherwise, and learn the difference between engaging in gossip versus office chat.

    6. I pretend I’m the court jester in a period drama – make the folks in power chuckle but be aware that they could behead you. YMMV.

      1. hahahaha except I don’t think this would be good for my mental health, imagining I’m working for a volatile sovereign all the time!

  10. Need a soft cozy full zip hoodie or sweatshirt to wear as a layer for my fall walks here in upper midwest. When I get warm, I can tie around my waist but don’t need to fuss with taking it off over my head/headphones mid walk. Any recs? Don’t want the fleece ones – too warm – or the super thick ones. Full zip is surprisingly hard to find, especially in pretty colors (lots of weird muted colors in the stores). What are your favorite brands?

    1. The Eddie Bauer camp hoodie serves this purpose for me. Lots of color options, too.

    2. LL Bean Women’s Quilted Full-Zip Sweatshirt. I have the quarter zip version and love it. It’s not too thick or warm.

    1. A little too much not airy material for me, personally. I love faux leather jeans though – great for winter. For tops, I like more layers and silky or cozy feeling and an all leather outfit just sounds uncomfortable. Would be fine in my anything goes office though.

    2. I just bought a faux suede midi skirt in a camel color and am planning on wearing it to work with a long sleeved black turtleneck, black tights and black heeled booties. I feel like it will be a good outfit for a dressy-casual Friday or a day when I am doing mostly desk work.

      I feel like if the cut of the piece is on the conservative side or you balance it out with conservative pieces or add in a mix of textures, faux leather and suede can work for an office setting. A tight, short mini skirt probably wouldn’t work, but an a-line midi or a crew neck sleeved top with dressier trousers would work.

    3. I have the faux leather skirt from Modern Citizen and love it. Get tons of compliments every time I wear it. Can’t wait for the weather to cool down so I can put it back into rotation! I also wear mine to work at a law firm; no issues.

    5. As workwear, I think there are a few ways to make it appropriate for many offices:

      – skirt or pants is better than a dress, because that’s a lot of leather
      – wear with a top in fabric that is drapey and matte and kind of luxe, like cashmere or silk
      – no preference for leather vs suede, but in both cases, a color that isn’t black is better (and this pains me, because I live in black)

      Obviously everyone’s office norms vary, but these guidelines help leather skew less club and more business.

      1. One more: make sure the style and fit is similar to other things you wear to work, so the fabric is the noticeable difference.

    6. Just don’t be like a former colleague who had a leather pencil skirt so tailored to her figure that she could barely walk in it, and when she tried you could hear the squeak coming from the other side of our building.

    7. I feel like suede is more wearable than shiny leather for the office, but sadly it’s a lot easier to stain – RIP the perfect camel colored suede a-line skirt I wore all the time in 2005-2008-ish.

    8. I’m currently wearing the banana republic factory faux leather top that may have been recommended here. It’s a black pullover with a belt. I’m wearing it with black cropped trousers and brown loafer and a brown bag.

  12. Has anyone read “I’m Glad My Mom Died”?

    Just finished it this morning, and it was sooo good. I grew up in an abusive home (though obviously much different from the author) and have similarly been working in therapy on identifying and feeling emotions now.

    Curious about others’ thoughts or even other books you enjoyed!

    1. I’ve heard nothing but positive feedback on it, so it’s on my library wishlist!
      I just finished Lessons in Chemistry, and it is worthy of all the buzz. Kate Quinn’s newest, The Diamond Eye was also great.
      The Hacienda was a great spooky/gothic book – similar tone to Mexican Gothic, but I thought it was better.

      3. As an actual woman in science, I absolutely hated Lessons in Chemistry. It’s rare that I take such a visceral dislike to a book that I know I lot of people have loved, but just wanted to say it’s not at all a feel good book, more of a miserable combination of tiresome stereotypes about scientists and all too real (but traumatic to read about) sexual harassment that still happens all the time today.

        1. +1. I’m not a scientist myself, but I did my undergrad in hard science at a tech school and my mom is a female scientist who was in grad school not long after the protagonist in that book. I had a visceral dislike of the book too. It was so stereotype-y and over the top that it felt like caricature. And I couldn’t stand the main character.

        1. It’s definitely being promoted as serious literary fiction though. I think I would have liked it more if it was advertised as a beach read.

    2. I read it last week and thought it was fantastic. Hard to read at times, but felt so honest and raw. I’m glad her mom died too, what a monster.

    3. Just finished Sophie Go’s Lonely Hearts Club, which also features an abusive mother. Still mulling over the ending.

  13. I’ve never been particularly driven to move up the corporate ladder and have taken several lateral moves within my company. This has served me well – I get stellar performance reviews with higher than average salary increases/bonus at annual review time. My leadership has often said they would promote me but the path up is extremely narrow and the people above me won’t budge. I don’t believe anyone deserves promotion but as I get further into my time at this company I’m frustrated with having more and more responsibility without the associated title/role.

    It feels like time to move on. I’m bored and the company has been in a long period of organizational change, which is exhausting, with more to come.

    For about a year I’ve been applying for roles that would be a step up for me but haven’t gotten anywhere. Now an opportunity for a(nother) lateral move has come up. I have good contacts at the new org. and was approached by someone interested in my skills/background. The pay, benefits, culture would be better than my current role, but the work would likely be a step back – less challenging work and scope.

    I’m really torn on pursuing this role. I want out of my job, though I don’t need out in a desperate way, and can’t help feeling that I’m selling myself short by taking yet another lateral move, On one hand, it would be a bridge to a new industry I’m interested in, what appears to be a good corporate culture, and an easy gig would be nice for a while. On the other hand, the work might get boring and I’d likely be looking to move up soon. What would you do in my shoes? Does the calculus change if I’m later in my career vs just starting out?

    1. For me to trade my political capital at a place I like, it has to be a big move, meaning a big promotion or salary increase. Small changes, especially culture related if your company isn’t toxic wouldn’t be worth starting over. All funnels narrow at the top, so if you’re not going in at a higher level I don’t see the opportunity as better without knowing more.

    2. I would wait for THE role. The opportunity you have described would be same level, but less interesting work, so in a few months, you would be looking again, but now with the extra thought of “how will this short stint look on my CV”. Connect with some headhunters, they will be able to sell you & your potential better to hiring managers/decision makers. I know it is frustrating, I myself am job searching for the last 4 months, but I would wait for a role you would feel excited about. You have the skills, you just need the right role.

    3. What you’re describing is very common at my company, from the lateral moves to the inability to move up due to lack of open spots. I’ve learned that it’s better to be patient for the RIGHT opening, than to try to force it into happening. And while it does suck to keep taking laterals, it also means that your skills are in demand and people like you, which is huge! You’re building a great network in your company that you can call on when that right opening at the next level comes your way.

    4. Another lateral move that would bore you seems like a meh move, unless you really want to get into this new industry.

      Keep pushing to go up at your current org or another one. It may take time.

    5. +1 to all the people saying wait for the right role. Nothing you say sounds like you are excited about this role. The only reason to take it is if there is a clear path upward, with a clear timeframe attached to it. For example, once I interviewed for a role where the person above me (VP) had a clear signal that he would be moving to an SVP role which was being created for him by merging another dept under him, within 6 months. So in a 6-month timeframe, my role was a clear frontrunner for the VP role that he would vacate. And this wasn’t just me talking, it was the VP sorta-committing to it (with caveats – we want to make sure you are a good fit etc, but if all goes well, I see you being The successor to me).
      If this is the case, I would take it. If its just more vague promises, then wait it out. Ply your previous network within the org. Have lunches with your former bosses. Ask them about openings and future openings, tell them you are looking for the next step up. Don’t settle for another lateral that is going nowhere.

  14. I am having a little trouble navigating life. I often talk with men at bars and restaurants and it very often leads to exchanging numbers and, if I am interested, a meet up at another time. Sometimes it is obvious that I am being “hit on.” But sometimes the conversation just turns to the fact we live close to each other and have something in common and he invites me to do whatever that thing is. Last week I went to the theatre and grabbed a meal at a restaurant with a guy I’ve met 2-3 times after we expressed mutual interest in both. He made all the arrangements after our conversation and texted me to confirm it was real – not just a passing thought I think it was a date with a friendship backstop, but I am still not sure. it ended with running into his friends, so there wasn’t a natural departure. I definitely think I gave friend vibes. Sunday I had dinner and talked to the man next to me. I told him about a new restaurant neither of us has tried and before he left he suggested we go and gave me his number. We are going tonight. I should assume this is a date, right? I guess I am afraid of misinterpreting and having things be awkward,but as a result I think I might sometimes come off too friendly and not show enough interest, and this time I think I am interested. is there a way to tell? Or do I just approach it how I want it to go and see what happens?

    2. These are all intended to be dates. Unless you know the man in some VERY CLEAR friend context, and there is some reason to think this is friendly or business, then it’s always a date. At least, that’s what you should assume. Unless you’re interested in collecting more friends with an awkward vibe bc they are pining for you, you should treat it as a date and see where it leads.

      1. What if you’re middle-aged? At what point, if I do something with a guy is it a date vs a woman where you are clearly friends? Sometimes I like an activity partner (vs that sort of partner).

        2. I don’t think she has anything to do with this. In fact, I think as you get older, it’s more likely to be a date unless it’s very clear because the men who are asking should have the emotional maturity to clarify if they’re asking for something outside the norm (and the norm for this situation is that it’s a date).

          Now— I do think it’s possible for an outing to start as a date and then both people realize they get along as friends but not romantically, so they continue with a friend relationship. If that happens, I’d just make sure both people are 100% clear about this to make sure everyone is on the same page.

          The only time I think it might be a friend situation is if you met in a friend setting and are both very clearly only interested in that. For example, maybe you’re both on the same trivia team and have seen each other every week for a few months but very clearly only have friend vibes. In that type of situation, I think it’s possible for it to be a friend hang out. But I do not ever think it’s a friend hang out if the man is asking you to do an activity after you’ve met him one time in a bar or restaurant.

    3. I have been with my husband for many years so I am out of practice in the dating arena, but these both sound like dates to me (assuming the two guys you went / are going out with are both single).

    5. Yeah, this last one is probably a date.

      The other one, I guess it depends. From a non-US, not-so-heavy date culture, that could go either way. If YOU didn’t think or feel it was a date, it wasn’t, but he might initially have hoped it was.

    6. If you have mutual friends and he invites you to a group event (trivia, watching sportsball at a casual bar, etc.) it might not be a date but could be a way for him to gauge your interest before asking you out. But if you have one-on-one plans it’s definitely a date. If you go on this date then arrange follow-up plans he’ll assume you’re into him.

    7. These are all dates. And you may be giving off such standoffish vibes (or they are not cassanovas) that they don’t make a move. But men who ask for your number are doing it to pursue you romantically, full stop.

      1. I don’t think shes standoffish if she keeps getting asked out by all these men she meets! I am fairly attractive and have never had a man ask me out after making small talk at a restaurant.

    10. These are all dates.

      The harsh truth is, most straight men have 0 desire to spend free time one on one with a straight woman unless they’re interested in her one way or another.

  15. Have any of you been on Ambien long-term? If so, how have you managed avoiding the Ambien zombie munchies? And at any point did your doctor have a candid talk that X time is too long to be on Ambien, you’ve gained 30 pounds now that you eat a 4th meal, and you need to re-learn how to fall asleep b/c that is now a chronic problem vs getting you through a crisis?

    1. I don’t have experience but I think you need to initiate that conversation, as it seems you’ve already come to those conclusions.

    2. Just tell your husband you think he’s fat if you’re this worked up about this

    3. I don’t think the “Ambien zombie munchies,” as you so colorfully put it, is something to be expected! I have taken Ambien for about 12 years; this has never happened. I don’t think this is the right sleep aid for you.

      2. I am also a long term low dose Ambien user. I have never woken up in the middle of the night for snacks. (Full disclosure, I don’t drink–not sure if there is an adverse interaction between alcohol and Ambient). To directly answer your question, no doctor that I see has concerns about me taking it.

    4. You need to get off this if you are facing dependency. My good friend had a full psychotic break due to Ambien addiction which led to a cascade of other things. It’s a very dangerous drug.

    5. I was on Ambien for a few years starting with 2008. I worked for one of the companies very much in the news and was really freaked out about losing my livelihood.

      It was the vivid dreams that did me in. I had one when I was on business travel, after having a few glasses of wine at an event and then reflexively taking my ambien to sleep. I was staying at a resort where my car was parked right in front of my condo. I dreamed I drove my car down a very specific local road, realized I was asleep about midway through, and turned around and came back. When I woke up in the morning I wasn’t sure whether it was a dream or was real. I decided I needed to quit the Ambien then and there.

      Quitting it was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. I started by cutting the pill in half for a while, then in quarters. Finally I took no pill and white knuckled it through about a week of not being able to get to sleep at night.

      But now my sleep is better than ever. I can force myself to fall asleep pretty much any time (except on planes, still can’t do that) and I get pretty good uninterrupted sleep. I think forcing myself to sleep without Ambien is what really improved my sleep hygiene.

      And I still don’t know whether my dream was real or not.

    1. RT is amazing quality. Look for end of season sales and it won’t be much more expensive than a cheap silk top.

  17. Hey New Yorkers, I’m visiting later this week. What kind of outwear should I bring? I was planning on packing an oversized blazer and maybe my suede moto jacket, but will that be enough for nighttime? Other options would be a denim jacket, Eddie Bauer black rain jacket or LL Bean field utility jacket (last two are warmest but not the most stylish of the bunch).

    1. I guess it is possible it will stop raining by the weekend, but it doesn’t feel like it will ever stop. This is paralyzing me from trying to answer your question.

    2. I would personally be too cold in just an oversized blazer or a moto jacket, unless you’re planning to wear a sweater underneath. Lows are supposed to be in the upper 40s this weekend, so YMMV. There is no rain in the forecast though, so you can probably skip the rain jacket.

    3. I think layers are your friend. Bring a warm sweater, a big scarf and you should be ok. I wouldn’t overthink it because you can always buy something here if needed.

        1. AIMS is correct. We’re in light jacket season here, with sweaters and scarves to supplement. It’s unlikely that you’ll be outdoors for any extended period at night unless you are at a restaurant with outdoor seating, and those usually have heaters. Have fun!

    4. It’s supposed to be sunny and warm Thursday-Friday, but fairly cold on Saturday. Echoing recs for layers. I’m always cold so this time of year I start breaking out my lightweight puffer coat, layered with sweaters and tees. If you have a lightweight puffer with a hood that’s packable, I’d bring it in case you need it.

  18. I have eight days of leave to use before the end of the year (I already have the week after Christmas off). How would you use this leave? I’m single and don’t have anyone to travel with so any travel would be solo which I haven’t enjoyed in the past.

    1. What kind of solo travel have you done in the past? What didn’t you like about it? I would go to a destination spa like Miraval – totally normal to be solo there, but also there are lots of other women if you want to make friends. But if you don’t want to travel maybe take a bunch of long weekends?

    2. I’d take the last eight Fridays of the year off and plan some small indulgence for each one. Or get all my year’s doctor’s appointments done.

      1. +1 – if you don’t want to go anywhere this is what I would do. Get your errands done and enjoy the weekends.

      2. Some years ago I was in this situation and I took every Friday off for the rest of the year. It was fabulous. Is that an option for you?

      3. I would take four day weekends every two weeks if possible. While three day weekends are nice, four day weekends feel like a real break to me.

    3. If you really don’t want solo travel I’d take all of thanksgiving weekend off and Fridays in December.

    4. Add the Weds and Mon to Thanksgiving weekend, and take some random weekdays off to handle life stuff – appointments, shopping, errands that are so irritating to spend a weekend on (car inspection?) etc.

    5. I would take it all off in one stretch — because taking days off piecemeal doesn’t really feel like time “off” for me. In terms of what to do: Korean spa one day, museum and leisurely lunch on the second day, shopping on third day…

    6. No more Fridays!

      If you have friends in other cities, a short visit or two could be fun.

    7. As a fellow singleton with coupled up friends I feel you. Definitely make specific plans instead of wasting your day off at home. Get a pedicure, go to a museum, take yourself out to a nice lunch with a glass of wine, go for a long walk at a forest preserve, bring a book to a cute coffee shop and order a fancy holiday themed drink, take a day trip to a cute little town, shop at an outlet mall that’s usually packed on weekends, see a movie at the theater with a big bucket of popcorn. Make a labor intensive dinner or some other cooking project that you wouldn’t normally take on during the week. If you’re spending the evening at home then get a new pair of pajamas or plush fuzzy socks you’re excited to wear.

  19. PSA – if you have a Chase card check those special “chase offers” — there were a bunch in mine this morning for Quince, J.Crew Factory, Kindle Unlimited, Allbirds, LL Bean, and more.

  20. Nooooo — Loretta Lynn is gone.

    Her life story is impressive — she married as a teen and had four children BEFORE she became famous (and then had surprise twins). Will queue up VanLear Rose for the ride home today.

    3. I am so sad. I LOVE Loretta. While she was a product of her times in many ways, she was so far ahead in others. Look up some of her songs and the meaning behind them and you will see. She was the QUEEN (sorry Dolly!).

    4. I haven’t seen it in years, but the Sissy Spacek biopic about her, Coal Miner’s Daughter, was great at the time.

      1. Also the Ken Burns documentary on County Music had some great material on her (and in general).

  21. My office is taking away all space heaters for this winter, and giving us all . . . blankets. Blankets! If they don’t want to pay for heating, why can’t we just work from home?

    1. I get taking away space heaters because they are kind of a fire risk, but if they have to give you blankets do they not realize they just need to turn up the heat? Complete control of the thermostat has been one of the best work from home perks.

      1. Yes, I see your point. I truly think they don’t want to pay the extra costs of turning the heat up. We’ve been on an austerity plan for a bit now, and I think it’s going to get worse the longer inflation goes on.

    2. There are OSHA guidelines for workplace temps. Look them up.

      Also, per the thread above–silk long underwear and silk camisoles make a huge difference. I wore them all the time when I lived in London and worked in old frigid buildings with men who liked the office at icicle-forming temp.

    3. I just ordered an electric heating pad to sit on in my freezing office. It uses less electricity than a space heater. If it’s nice I’ll make a post about it.
      Agree that the blankets aren’t a great move. If they’re really serious about saving on heating/utilities then they should absolutely let you WFH!

    4. This is awful. If you really end up stuck with this, fingerless gloves. Can be so hard to type with cold hands!

    6. It is silly! My workplace took all the old space heaters, rated for whatever too-high wattage, but allowed us to buy new, weaker space heaters. Also silly if you ask me.

  22. I was recently laid off (tech, sigh) and I am FINE in terms of finances, and I have plenty of things I enjoy doing so I’m not in a huge rush to get another job, but it was still a huge blow to my ego. I genuinely never thought this would happen to me, and even though I know it wasn’t personal (I was one of hundreds), I feel irrelevant and like I have no value. How can I manage these feelings?

    1. I have been there. It’s really hard. Honestly the only things that helped were time and getting another job where I felt successful.

    2. This is tough. It’s a really tough spot to be in (I have been there too) and the only thing that helped me was time. I’m sorry this happened, and please know that your job has nothing to do with your value. You’re a worthwhile person when you are employed, and when you’re not employed. The job doesn’t give you value as a person, your character does.

    3. Sympathies. Layoffs always sting. I had always been such a star in my career…and then got laid off in a RIF that was pretty huge. Honestly, I came to see that it was about not fitting in at that place. If I cared more and was better at navigating politics with very senior execs at an F50 corporation perhaps I wouldn’t have been laid off. And I made peace with that because I like who I am, and the fit has been SO much better in subsequent roles.

      I found that being laid off also made me have a better level of empathy for other people who have been laid off.

      Note that I don’t mean to say that my situation applies to yours. Sometimes we are in the wrong place at the wrong time, and it truly has nothing to do with you.

    4. The same thing happened to me just prior to covid. I went and got a new job pretty quickly because I realized I couldn’t do the things I wanted during lockdown. I also recognize those feelings from a stint as a SAHM decades ago. If filling your time with enjoyable activities doesn’t make the feelings fade, I’d try therapy – probably a limited number of sessions could help you deal with the feelings.

    5. I got laid off in August; it was not wholly unexpected due to some big changes in the company and the fact that my work had dried up. But it was absolutely still a blow to my ego, as you’re saying, and I spent some time (more than I should have) stewing about it.

      Keeping myself busy helped – I picked up some contract work and so I had something to do every day besides just scroll through job postings on LinkedIn. I went on hikes and bike rides. I did some journaling. I vented to my husband, who had been very abruptly laid off himself at one point and could empathize.

      What really helped, as someone else said, was getting a new job and diving into the process of getting to know new people, working on new projects, etc. Also, reminding myself that we can’t change the past, we can only shape the future. So there’s only so much good looking back to the past is ever going to do for me. I was surprised at how much I was surprised – and hurt – about being laid off. For me, it was that I didn’t get to say goodbye to some of the people I worked with that I really liked. Some of those folks reached out on LinkedIn, but some did not. Which does kind of hurt, because it feels like maybe I valued that relationship more than they did. But it is what it is. No place to go but forward, from here. Big hugs. Do nice things for yourself – try to do something you enjoy every day – and don’t spend the entire day applying for jobs. This is a great time of year, many places, to get outdoors. You’ll be working again soon enough and may not have the chance you have now to rest, relax and focus on things besides work.

    6. I might be late to this, but can you share the rough outlines of your severance package?

      – Signed, a tech worker who is facing an imminent RIF

  23. Has anyone used Turo? We’re traveling to New England this weekend and all the car rentals appear to be sold out. I didn’t realize this was still an issue. Any other suggestions?

    1. I haven’t used Turo but I can’t believe how bad the car rental situation is right now! I just had an experience where I reserved a car and I showed up and they didn’t have a car for me. And then another place I tried to book a couple weeks out and it was already sold out. I heard so many horror stories last summer but it seems much worse now.

    2. We’ve used it a lot and love it. It’s VERY convenient. There’s some set up for the first time, like sending pics of your DL, etc., but it’s great and I would look no further, provided it has cars available in the area.

    3. Yes, I’ve used it in Denver, CO and Portland, ME and loved it both times. Go for it!

    4. I wouldn’t use it because of the insurance risks. Unless you go premium, the liability insurance is only the state required minimum amount. With premium I think it doubles the cost of the rental. Definitely call your own car insurance to find out if you would be covered in an accident, because it isn’t like a regular car rental.

      1. I wonder how many people rent their cars on Turo and totally invalidate their own insurance by doing so and don’t even realize it.

    5. No experience with Turo. I have successfully used Carwise (which basically contracts with other renal agencies, but gave us a substantially better rate) and it was 100% easy and legit

  24. For 2.5 blissful years I worked from home. Now I’m back in the office part-time and I’m reminded of one of the worst parts of working in an office: people are disgusting and don’t clean up after themselves. I hate feeling like the Office Mommy and cleaning up other people’s messes in the kitchen.

        1. Oh no no no. Put down the sponge and report this to the Office Manager or someone in Operations. I’m praying you aren’t cleaning dirty toilets and bathroom sinks when those are in need!

    3. My new job has office space at a WeWork and no joke, that is my absolute favorite perk that they have people there that keep the kitchen and fridge clean and do the dishes.

    5. The unpaid labor that people were talking about up-thread that people are talking about? The kind that doesn’t advance your career? This is it. Stop doing it.

      I like working in the office except for pooping.

      2. LOLOL. When I first came back to the office for my now-hybrid schedule, I realized that WFH had rendered my pooping schedule no longer optimal for office work.

  25. Attention L.A. people: I have four prime tickets (row E) to Oklahoma! at the Ahmanson theatre for this Saturday night and can’t use them because Mr. Senior Attorney has (a thankfully fairly mild case of) COVID. If anybody wants them, email me at seniorattorney1 at gmail and they’re yours. First one to claim gets them.

    1. Not in LA but this is very generous and kind! I love this community. Now, if only someone could help my new college graduate find his dream job in professional sports, ideally in NY or NJ, I’d be very grateful (kidding, not kidding!)

  26. What are your favorite vests? (I am very pro-vest and curious what styles and brands others are liking these days)

    1. Are you talking about outerwear? Down vests are a great layer and I prefer them for driving (less bulk on my arms). I like the ones from LLBean and Lands End.

  27. Anyone have any tips or ticks for finding accommodations in Amsterdam for a family of five? We were hoping to spend 5-7 days in Amsterdam in April when the kids are on spring break- Husband’s sister lives there and we haven’t seen her in three years. So far Airbnb and hotels are coming up 250-375 a night and not a lot of options. Is there some other website we should be checking? Is this just the going rate these days?
    Or any ideas for another city we might stay in where we could make an easy trip into Amsterdam to meet up with SIL?
    Also- there seems to be more options if we are a family of four. Given that the third kid is a toddler and will likely co-sleep with us, do you think we can book accommodations as two adults and two children (10 and 5)? Or will we run into issues down the line?

    1. If it’s a hotel you can email them and ask them if you can book for 4 and explain you also have a toddler. I assume there’s an equivalent way to message an Airbnb host? I wouldn’t show up with an unannounced kid, even a baby or toddler. In Europe especially they can be finicky about that.

    2. Yes that’s the going rate for a room. No you can’t just not put your toddler on the reservation that’s against fire code. The Hague and Rotterdam are both easy express train rides to Amsterdam and cheaper.

      1. Same. We did an AirBnb a few years back, and it was $450/night for a 4 bedroom house.

      2. But, in terms of nearby cities, maybe look into Haarlem? It’s an easy train ride, depending on where in Amsterdam your SIL is.

    4. Stay in a hotel you’re trashing the rental market for locals. Or deal with the fact that you’re being cheap and stay in a suburb or increase your budget. And no don’t lie about how many kids you have.

      Honestly your whole post is gross and entitled.

    5. Welcome to Western Europe and our prices. The prices you got so far are actually a steal and I would book very fast. Amsterdam’s housing situation is dire, too many people for such a city – demand is high, prices match.
      I have been using Booking app for the last few years and got some nice upgrades or discounts. The hotel prices and AirBnB are actually comparable [been there 2 weeks ago]. I just filter for Hotels, Less than 3km from center, Rating 8+, Free WiFi and then sort by price.
      You could take a look at nearby cities with train connection to Amsterdam [e.g. Hoofddorp is <30mins train ride away from Amsterdam Central Station], the train network is good and the trains are going often.
      Also worth to remember that you may be getting quotes in dollars, but you will pay in euros. And the exchange rate will be playing in your favor, since dollar strengthened vs euro by what, 20% since Feb'22.

    6. Thank you, this is helpful. I’ve never travelled to Europe (we are originally from Asia so we’ve travelled there frequently pre-2020) and this trip is going to be a stretch for us, so I wasn’t sure what is reasonable to expect.

      1. Hotel prices in the States have skyrocketed in the past year. You will be hard-pressed to find anything halfway decent under $300 a night in most big US cities nowadays, and I’d expect Europe to be even more expensive.

        1. I wouldn’t go that far. It can be challenging in NYC and maybe in some super trendy spots like Nashville to find decent places under $300, but I travel a lot in the US and we rarely pay more than $200/night for hotels. We don’t stay in super fancy places, but always places that are clean, comfortable and in safe areas. Think Marriotts and Holiday Inns. Also disagree that Europe is more expensive. The exchange rate is extremely favorable to Americans right now.

    7. Amsterdam is difficult for hotels – you’re not doing anything wrong, there is just not enough rooms for the demand, and the budget rooms that do exist can be small and damp (cramped water city).

    8. Those prices seem like actually a very good deal for Amsterdam. We went last fall with two adults and one baby and paid much more than that for a fourth floor AirBnb in the Jordaan district.

  28. Does anyone have any opinions of the versatility of black or gray on this hat style? I usually wear straw hats in summer for sun protection, and want to extend to winter for more sun protection (SoCal), but aren’t really used to hats in winter, nor wearing them with regular outfits…

    https://www.madewell.com/madewell-x-biltmorereg%3B-montana-felt-hat-AA562.html?dwvar_AA562_color=BK5229&cgid=accessories-hats-felt#prefn1=isBackroom&prefv1=false&srule=Price-Low-to-High&start=3&sz=24

  29. How do you know when it’s time to get on meds for depression? In general, I am one of those people who doesn’t like to turn to meds as a first choice, but I haven’t been able to find a therapist that’s a good match and day-by-day I am falling deeper and deeper into depression. it’s starting to really affect my work and ability to push through. I’m actually seeing a new general practitioner tomorrow and wondering whether to make the request. Obviously I know this is very personal but would welcome any sharing of experiences.

    1. Hi! I don’t comment often but noticed no one had responded yet and wanted to chime in. 1) Kudos to you for taking a step by asking for help. 2) Getting on an antidepressant was one of the best choices I ever made. And getting back on one after a brief hiatus (I was trying to see if I could go antidepressant-free recently when my husband and I began trying to conceive but I ultimately decided to get back on a pregnancy-safe option) was also a wonderful choice for me.

      I think the answer to “when do I know it’s time” is different for everyone but, for me, I had tried therapy (which is certainly wonderful and valuable), I had read all the books, I had practiced all the best practices like long walks and spending time with friends and keeping a gratitude journal and practicing my faith…and I was still experiencing periods of severe and alarming depression.

      Antidepressants put my brain on an easier mode while still allowing me to feel a full range of emotions. For that, I am very thankful and so are my husband and close friends haha. Probably my coworkers, too, since they make me a much more happy and productive person :)

      I won’t pretend there are not sometimes physical side effects. For me, though, an increased propensity for weight gain and some gastro issues have been absolutely worth the trade off of mental health and wholeness. You may well not have those side effects (none of my close friends on antidepressants have had the same gastro issues as me) and, if you do, you can often find ways to mitigate them.

      Antidepressants admittedly don’t work for everyone but they have truly changed my life for the better.

      Rooting for you and sending encouragement! This too shall pass and there will be happier times.

    2. The answer is right now. Do it before you are me and end up in a gibbering heap at work after also repeatedly accidentally injuring yourself badly enough to go to the ER because your body stops responding right when you get depressed. You’re catching the signs now and it is a WIN to turn it around and not let it go deeper. Good for you.

    3. Tried five different ones and had a range of horrible side effects from piercing headaches to diarrhoea to huge weight gain. So much effort and expense over months and months with no relief.
      Yoga, meditation and changing jobs fixed it but YMMV.

    4. I agree with Curious – if you’re asking the question (and have been for a while), it’s time to push it. For me, my therapist and I thought it was tied to my menstrual cycle, but then I had a night where it was clearer not and decided that was it.

      I also like Anonie’s description that it puts my brain on easy mode; I know it’s still there, but it’s easier to push past to what I’m actually feeling and address that.

      You got this!

    5. Ask your PCP. There’s a standardized test that she can give you upfront and then talk with her about how you’re feeling and go from there. I’m sure your PCP will be glad you brought up the subject so you can get help if you need it.

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