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Thursday’s Workwear Report: Pleated Ruffle Blouse

A woman with brown hair wearing a yellow ruffled top and off-white pants

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I’m a sucker for a ruffle, and this blouse from Ann Taylor is no exception. The sunny yellow color and blousy fit make it a perfect summer wardrobe addition.

I would pair it with a neutral bottom in navy, camel, gray, or white. For some reason, I always avoid wearing ultra-bright colors like this one with black — the contrast is just too stark to my eye, but others may disagree!

The top is $74.50 and comes in regular sizes XXS–XXL and petite sizes XXS–XL.

Eloquii has a plus-size option in red at Nordstrom ($30.98 on sale), though it's only available in lucky sizes; this Vince Camuto top ($59) comes in 1X–3X in black and white.

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Sales of note for 12.5

311 Comments

  1. We have a big, deep pantry that has four shelves and that’s it, so it’s not very functional – you can’t see what’s in the back and there is a lot of wasted space. We’d like to install sliding shelves and whatever other features will make it more functional. Any suggestions if you have done a similar project?

    1. They are crazy $$, but take a look at the Studio Dearborn instagram/website. I’ll give them a lot of credit, many high end kitchen designers have no clue about organization/storage and they do an amazing job of using every last inch of space to set up hard working pantries/kitchens.

    2. Is it deep enough to make it more of a walk in setup with the shelves either u-shaped or l-shaped? You might gain functionality in the space even if you technically lose shelving surface square footage.

        1. Hmm…what about triangular shelves? Full width on the back wall and one side wall, and low-profile baskets or hanging racks on the other side wall and inside of the door?

    3. I love my sliding pantry shelves. All our shelves are sliding except for the top shelf, since we wouldn’t be able to see it anyway.

      1. We got a cheap sliding drawer from ikea for this exact problem. I have also considered putting in a mirror along the back wall of the pantry to see whats in the back.

      2. Sliding shelves is the answer. I had this done for the deep pantry in my last house. I also had the under counter cabinets done this way. Back-saver!

    5. This is our pantry! The sliding drawers were already installed when we bought the house. It works great-we can fit a ton of food in it and easily find what we’re looking for. My one complaint is that taller items like cereal boxes have to go on their sides. If you have room maybe have one drawer that has enough clearance for taller boxes?

    6. I used to live in a rental where they had put a beam in the middle and turned the pantry into a giant lazy Susan with two feet diameter. It looked ridiculous but was pretty functional.

    8. Could you use it for things like pots and pans, chopping boards, baking sheets (perhaps ‘filed’ on their side), mixing bowls, all that kind of stuff, and then put what would be in the pantry normally in the kitchen cupboards that those things would otherwise be stored in?

    9. for an inexpensive option, maybe use bins on your shelves? something like the Rubbermaid dish pans, or a transparent shoe bin (find one that fits the depth of your shelves) so you can just pull the bin out to access what’s at the back, then replace?
      We did this in our old kitchen which came with ONE drawer. It was cheaper to buy a lot of bins rather than installing something custom. We had thought we would try it for a while and then move to a custom solution, but we never bothered to change; the bins worked really well.

    10. We had a pantry with pullout shelves put in (there was no pantry before, so admittedly anything was going to be a big improvement). We had a microwave put in as well, so there are two normal non-pullout shelves up top and then below the microwave there are 5 pullout shelves. Cabinet maker tried to talk me into 3 pullout shelves only saying I would have no need for the shallow one at top but he was wrong lol, so my advice is that if this is the only space you have for pantry stuff, maximize it – since you can pull out the shelves, you need much less clearance between each shelf so you can probably go to 5 or 6 if you want. We have a very shallow one at about neck level for things like foil, parchment paper, toothpicks, etc. The others I measured the height of our staples to make sure they all fit and planned usage ahead of time, super happy with the result. Of course if you have tons of other space and are not maximizing this as your only pantry, your approach will be different!

    11. I like those plastic bins that slide out, they’ve been super helpful in helping me organize deeper cabinets, especially cabinets that are too high for me to reach or really see what’s in the back. You can get those pretty inexpensively from Bed Bath and Beyond or Target.

      If the shelves are spaced far enough apart, you could also buy utility shelves that sit on top of the existing shelves that give you more surface to work with.

    12. We recently saw a pantry that had this amazing origami of shelves that stuck with me. Look at the Rev-a-Shelf swing out cabinet pantry kit. I liked that it didn’t have any really deep shelves so you could see everything and nothing would get lost, but it was still really easy to organize.

    13. Can you get big bins to organize your pantry items? We have 14-qt plastic bins we got at Walmart that we use for cake decorating, baking supplies, etc. (They’re just a bit longer than a wine bottle laying down.) Much cheaper than new shelves…

  2. This is a cute blouse! I remember when I wore one like it a few years ago, Frank was annoyed that it did not have any buttons, so he could not see down into it. However, since it was sleeveless, he thought he could peer in when I raised my arms up so he asked me to get a tchotchke off the bookshelf for him. When I reached up to get it, he ooogeled me and tried to look in! Can you imagine that? The CFO of the law firm stooping to such length’s to see one of the partner’s boobies! FOOEY on him! I think he’s calmed down a bit now, b/c of the pandemic and the fact that his wife is “very accommodating” to him (his words)! I really don’t know how his wife puts up with him and all that!

  3. Any recommendations for a vet in Boston? Looking around Beacon Hill, but have a car, so can drive. We’re moving to the city in October.

    1. Charles Street Animal Clinic would be convenient within the Beacon Hill neighborhood. I’ve walked by it many times but don’t have direct experience with it.

      I used Back Bay Veterinary Clinic with satisfaction, as closer to where I lived at the time. They’ve had relatively young vets with turnover (so the vets my cat saw are no longer there) but the owner vet seems to provide a good setup. Very modern equipment and with the convenience of weekend hours.

      Someone else I know likes Huron Veterinary Hospital on the Cambridge/Somerville line – specifically the owner there, Dr. Ulrich, for a cat.

    2. If you have a cat or just a nervous pup, I LOVED At Home Veterinary when I lived in Boston. They come to your home, and can do a lot of standard things, even including mobile ultrasounds. We used them for standard care, then went to BluePearl for more serious thing.

    3. I really like Boston Veterinary Care for my two cats (not to be confused with Boston Veterinary Clinic, which I understand is higher cost). All of their profits support their associated nonprofit shelter Animal Rescue League of Boston! They have parking and are located in the South End, near Beacon Hill.

    4. Charles Street vet is excellent.

      Back Bay Vet is excellent, but pricier, and harder to park if you’re coming from Beacon Hill.

      You will have many recommendations from the Common dog park crew.

      And if you need a dogwalker, Margaret Brady is wonderful, as is PiedDogwalker.

      Enjoy Beacon Hill. I miss it so much. It’s like living in a postcard, all the time.

  4. Recommendation for dressy flat or low wedge? Looking for something with a roomy toe box or that comes in wide, if possible. Not going to be worn on a daily basis. Budget up to $100. Thanks!

    1. If you’re okay with open toe and low block heel, I’ve been wearing the Clark’s Caroleigh Anya shoe to work/dinners out/weddings lately and I really enjoy them.

    2. Cole Haan fits my duck feet, and has skimmers and low wedges. Lots on sale on Amazon.

  5. Favorite vegetarian recipe? I am so bored with everything in my normal rotation recently. Bonus points for easy/lazy recipes.

    2. I made a gorgeous green risotto that was very good (bbc good food) and a mushroom stroganoff (one pot vegan) recently and both were delicious.

    3. Can of refried beans + hot sauce + shredded cheese; microwave; eat with chips

      Warning: this is delicious but incredibly salty

      1. Ugh I love refried beans so much. I think there are brands with low sodium refried beans, but I can’t attest to how good they are. Anyone here tried making their own?

        1. Yes, and it’s super easy if you have an instant pot. You can blend them to your desired consistency (I like them super smooth). I use a recipe from wellplated and it’s delicious and healthy since they’re not actually fried.

        2. Yes! I get a couple cans of cooked pinto beans, fry an onion in a bit of butter, add the beans and a dash of liquid, let it sort of meld, mash it all up and season as desired.

        3. I make mine by sautéing onions, jalapeños, and garlic in some oil in my Instant pot, then cooking the beans with a bunch of cumin and some smoked paprika and use our immersion blender to mash. I make a whole bag of dried beans in one batch, then freeze mason jars of them. Easy and delicious.

    4. Cook lentils with taco spices (I like Trader Joe’s, it’s nice and spicy, or I just make my own spice mix) for vegetarian tacos.

    5. Black bean and sweet potato tacos. Roast sweet potato chunks, can of black beans simmered on the stove with a pat of butter and some cumin/chili powder.

      1. Yes, or turn this into an enchilada bake – google for a bunch of options but really i just roast sweet potatoes and then layer corn tortillas, store-bought enchilada sauce, a can of black beans + the roasted sweet potatoes + whatever other veg I have (even just sauteed spinach!) if desired. If you want layer some cheddar on top but I mostly keep it vegan. Bake for like 30 minutes. This is GF and vegan and filling and delicious.

    6. Google NYT Baked Orzo with Tomatoes Roasted Peppers and Zucchini (Martha Rose Schulman). It’s easy, infinitely adaptable and forgiving, can be made ahead, and makes great leftovers.

      Also the Smitten Kitchen Farro with Tomatoes. More or less cooks itself.

    7. For something new to try that can be made with widely available ingredients and isn’t too taxing to make, I live to visit the Detoxinista webs!te. (Despite the cringey name.). I

      1. Gah hit return too soon. I especially like her salads category recipes. The Sweet Sesame-Lime Cabbage Salad put together with Hodo brand Thai Curry tofu nuggets that have been torn smaller and seared in a pan is now in my regular lunch prep rotation.

    8. Panko fried tofu. Press water out, slice, apply flour and egg wash, then panko. Bake or fry. Can be served with a meal, or just dip in sweet chili sauce!

      1. I’ve been doing something similar but even easier: press water out of tofu, slice and coat in cornstarch, then fry in a large cast iron skillet. While the tofu fries, prep a veggie – asparagus or snap peas lately – and quickly stir fry them in the same pan/oil when the tofu is done. Serve it all with bottled peanut sauce.

    9. Honestly, I buy a basic frozen pizza from the store and then pile additional spinach, asparagus tips, more parmesan, and kalamata olives on top while it is cooking, then drizzle balsamic glaze over it when it is done. Similarly, I buy grocery store falafel, reheat it in the toaster oven, and toss it on top of greens with tomatoes, feta, and pepperoncini for a quick salad. Caprese salads are also super easy to assemble.

      If you’re looking for inspiration rather than life hacks, I like to scroll through: https://www.ranchogordo.com/blogs/recipes/tagged/vegetarian

    11. Italian Farro with finely chopped spinach (mixed 50/50) and balsamic salad dressing. Add tomatoes/olives/feta/basil/white beans on top if you like.

    12. Grilled halloumi (or heat it up in a pan – press out some of the liquid first) with roasted summer squash, pesto, and pistachios.

      Broccoli (frozen or fresh), sautéed with garlic and olive oil. Add sliced black olives (canned are fine) or walnuts toward the end of cooking. Put over high protein pasta with some fresh grated Parmesan.

      Fry an egg, put it on a slice of naan, top with a slice of cheese, and heat in oven until melted.

      Black beans, tomatoes, and avocado with a red wine vinaigrette.

      Roast a bunch of chopped vegetables (potatoes, carrots, squash, onions, broccoli) with a little salt and pepper, garlic, smoked paprika, and top with an egg fried in olive oil. You can roast up a bunch of vegetables one day and then use them for several days, just fry an egg and throw it on top.

      And plain old grilled cheese is always a nice meal!

      1. I love halloumi so much. We’re having pan-fried halloumi with pita, tzatziki, hummus, baba ganoush, and some veggies and Mediterranean-type stuff tonight. Super easy.

    13. Boil pasta, and add broccoli for the last couple of minutes. Toss with sautéed olive oil, garlic and a pinch of crushed red pepper.

    14. Lentils (I make mine in my instapot) with balsamic roasted broccoli and mushrooms. I like to top with goat cheese, red pepper flakes and balsamic glaze.

      For the meat eaters out there, I also like to add chicken sausage to this.

    15. The garden grazer dot com is a great vegetarian blog. The quinoa salad with the lemon basil dressing is on rotation in my lunch plan all summer.

    17. I made the Domesticate Me Summer Veggie Quinoa Bake on Sunday and it was SO GOOD. I’d personally double the bell pepper (or use red + green) and the corn (I added some frozen) and I skipped the topping and only used Parmesan cheese and it was still delicious.

  6. I’m just wondering if this is normal in the US and western Europe, but my sense is that it is normal once you hit adulthood to gain a size every 10 years or so (regardless of starting point), that maybe this is a factor of both aging (metabolism slowing, lower muscle % in bodies), being less active (demands of job, families, etc.), going through perimenopause / menopause, increasing other heath problems that come with age, maybe also more $ for restaurant meals and $ for treat-type foods, etc. And if it is how things are, maybe we shouldn’t beat ourselves up over it and just concentrate on being healthy (like being healthy at 50 is a great send off for later decades, you shouldn’t feel like you need to look like your 20-ish niece or like you did at 20).

    After spending some long-awaited time with my extended (and older) family, I’m looking at the multiple sizes in my closet and thinking that it’s more natural progression as we age vs some giant failing on my part.

    1. I mean. You can both try not to gain 10lbs a decade because it’s not healthy and not treat weight gain as a huge failure. Like. Just buy a size up in your jeans don’t make it a grand global pronouncement on western society.

    2. I think its normal to a degree and I fully agree with you about a focus on health over weight. Generally when I’ve been skinniest I’ve been pretty sick, for one reason or another, so it always grinds my gears when weight=health no matter what. Plus pregnancy fundamentally changed my body shape (though I still weigh more or less the same my hips/chest expanded) and I only have 1 kid, I’m sure it’s more extreme if you have multiple pregnancies.
      Interestingly, I’ve seen a lot of colleagues and friends in their mid 40’s/early 50s get into MUCH better shape than in their 20’s/30s, which makes sense to me for a variety of reasons – I couldn’t afford fancy personal trainers/boutique gyms in my 20s, and in my 30s I had a much younger kid and less time. Now (or soon) I’ll be able to leave my kid home alone to work out/go to the gym AND I can afford a fancy gym/personal training/etc. I also have way more ownership over my work schedule now that I’m more senior vs. being at the mercy of senior managers when I was younger. If I block time on my calendar for a gym visit at 5pm I can make that work more frequently now.

      1. Agreed on the 30s v 40s thing, at least for parents. It’s easier to work out five days a week with a 15 than 5 year old. Of course it’s easier with no kids, ha.

    3. I believe carrying a little extra weight into old age is associated with better outcomes than staying thin, so it may even be protective/by design.

      1. +1, read about the obesity paradox. I am going with health markers as my priority, cholesterol, blood pressure, etc.

      2. +2

        Yes, this is true.

        Also, with aging as you lose fat/elasticity in your face, it can lead to some hollowing. Same with hands/feet. For me, keeping a few extra pounds helps “fill me out”.

    4. I think this is correct until a certain point but many people (especially women) tend to lose weight once they’re 70+. I would expect a 90 year old to be thinner than a 60 year old.

        1. I think a lot of older people kind of lose interest in food. Dental issues can be a factor.

        2. I’d guess it has to do with lessend ability to smell/taste. Think about how sometimes older people can no longer smell that they need to wash clothing/themselves. I know I have to force myself to eat with a cold, if I can’t smell what I’m eating my appetite goes way down.

      2. My mom and dad are early 70s and have recently lost quite a bit of weight. They’re careful about their diets due to health concerns, but they also just don’t seem to care that much about eating. They eat one meal a day, around 1 p.m., and otherwise just snack on low-fat cheese and crackers or fruit or protein bars. Their doctors are fine with it.

      3. You lose muscle mass as you age. It’s a good thing to build it up as much as possible before those years.

        1. Sad but true and I miss my a**. That saggy seat issue is nearly impossible to avoid at this stage.

    5. I think “normal” and “natural” are not necessarily the same. Gradual weight gain is certainly normal in the US, whether it’s natural or healthy is a different question. Certainly hormonal changes are menopause mean that weight gain or changes in fat distribution are likely; pregnancy also often affects size even if you return to a pre-pregnancy weight. So there are definitely biological factors that impact this stuff. But in the absence of those biological factors, yes, it’s common to gradually gain weight but that doesn’t mean it’s healthy – or unavoidable.

      Regardless of that, concentrating on being healthy rather than on being skinny is always going to be better for you, and beating yourself up about weight gain generally doesn’t help you prevent or reverse it, so being kinder to yourself is likely both a healthier and happier route. You can hate yourself into thinness but you’ll still hate yourself, and personally I’d rather like myself. We only get so many years here.

      1. Yes definitely. I’m heavier than I’ve been in the past (overweight by BMI) but cycled 15 miles on Sunday without huffing and puffing or sore muscles the next day, have low blood pressure and cholesterol. I was really skinny as a teen and my fitness level was loads lower.

    6. I can’t comment on what is normal in the US and Europe regarding gaining sizes. But I do say a hearty yes to making peace with the size you are rather than thinking that not looking like you did in your 20s or like 20-year-olds do is a giant failing on your part. After many years of looking back at photos of myself in younger years and thinking, “Why did I hate the way I looked? Look how young and pretty I was!!” I am finally realizing that how i look now (at whatever age I am) is going to be something that I am wistful about when I’m an elderly woman. I’m going to remember how much energy I had, and how smooth my skin was and how I could climb mountains and wish I had that body again. As an elderly woman, I don’t want to look back with regret on all the time I wasted hating that perfectly good, energetic, smooth-skinned, pretty body that I would (at that point) give so much to get to spend a few days in again.

    7. Eh, I don’t think every 10 years is necessarily true, but recent studies have shown that post or peri menopausal women with BMIs in the 25-27 range (so technically “overweight”) have better health outcomes, so I think it is recommended to gain some weight at some. point.

      I also think, even with great interventions, a little extra fat can help your face look younger at an older age. My mom looked a lot better when she gained a bit of weight after going through menopause.

      1. I know what you mean with fat = youth for optics. I read once, that at some point you have to choose b/w your as$ and your face. I do see some women who exercise very frequently and . . . it’s a lot of tendon, as looks go. Fine for them, but something I’m unlikely to ever achieve even if I wanted to.

      2. That’s not always true. I am 48 in peri and when my weight gets into the 26 bmi territory, my a1c, liver enzymes and cholesterol creep up (even on a statin). Losing 20 lbs to get myself into the normal category + a low carb diet completely resolved these issues. For me it’s all about diet. I tend to gain weight around my mid section and am at risk for type 2 due to family history and having gestational diabetes with my pregnancies. For a women without these things who gains in her hips and thighs – yeah it might be ok – but not everyone.

        1. Yes, but the plural of anecdote isn’t data. I know the study the anon above is talking about, and your personal experience doesn’t contradict a controlled medical study. You’re totally right that for you that’s incorrect, but in aggregate, that’s what the study showed.

        2. Yeah. I have a BMI over 30 and at 48 I have low blood pressure and normal cholesterol and other markers. A lot of this is genetic. Losing 35 lbs two years ago had virtually no effect on any metric other than my weight. I have changed my body composition a fair bit since then and I am curious if there will be any effect from that but haven’t had any tests to see. My BP at blood donations has remained pretty steady, though.

    8. That sounds like a pound a year, which sounds minor. BUT if you live into your 80s, you could be +60 pounds from where you were at 20. My great aunt had to go to a nursing home because my great uncle could no longer help lift her when she fell. Yes, he was older and had balance issues, but she was probably to heavy for any of us to have lifted solo. Not > 200 pounds but that as deadweight is.too much for many of us.

      1. 60lb up from where my weight at 20 would just bring me up to the normal weight of a skinny man; this seems like a strange calculus to me.

        1. Although at my parents age, either would have trouble lifting the other if either fell. It is a damn good thing that neither falls, but as a distant child I am not unconcerned with this. It will likely be what gets them moved into a flat with an elevator. At least they stopped trying to do their own gutters.

        2. And you think an older, out-of-shape man would be able to lift a normal-weight man? Seems unlikely.

          1. I’m saying that not many adults can starve themselves down to the point where they can be easily lifted, so it seems like a strange goal!

            And I’m definitely saying that 80 year olds shouldn’t ideally be primary caretakers of other 80 year olds!! My grandparents had professional nurses as in-home caretakers at that age. Honestly even for younger people, it is a difficult on any marriage to ask one spouse to be the primary medical caretaker of the other spouse. Frequent falling is a big deal and should occasion a meds check and professional intervention. But I also understand that in our current dystopia, people don’t always get what they actually need.

          2. Not to mention old people who want to stay in their house no matter how crazy that seems to us.

      3. Yeah. I have a totally immobile family member that weighs about 115 and he can’t be lifted without equipment. *everyone* is dead weight if they are immobile. Weight gain isnt going to be the reason you end up in a skilled nursing facility.

        1. That is true — I had a kid who was doing poorly post anesthesia and pain meds become floppy and that kid is bigger than me. On a daily basis, I couldn’t manage that. I guess I’d need in-home care or a nursing home b/c many of us will likely be alone as old people.

    9. It’s insulin resistance and the highly processed foods and carbs and added sugar in the Western diet. The Obesity Code explains this really well. It’s no one’s “fault,” and yes it is a natural outgrowth of our lifestyles. But it can also be stopped/reversed.

      1. So true. I’m still trying to lose the weight I gained the last time I was on hormonal BC. It was the least of the side effects it gave me, but it’s also the one that is taking the most time to be rid of.

  7. Any current good pants offerings for pear-shaped bottoms that are not super-high-rise, maybe have some stretch (but not a 360 degree elastic waist), and have mostly full-length straight-legs that would be good office wear? My legs are too long for anything with a jogger-type elastic cuff and some prior pants are now shrunken to the point of being in the donate bin. Others, the rise is so high that it has resulted in a saggy-butt with how they sit on my actual waist (which I guess is a way of saying that the rise is too high).

    Related question: I guess I can shrink rayon. Or is that easily done?

    1. I’m a broken record about J. Crew Factory lately, but take a look at the Holland pant. There’s elastic in the back only, they’re full length on me, not super high rise and fit TTS.

    2. Talbots. I know everyone thinks its an old lady store but they have washable, office-appropriate pants in a lot of styles and they go up to at least a size 20 in my local store.

      1. Some of my favorite pants ever were from Talbots — good quality fabric, good fit, good basic pants. I don’t wear anything else from there (their cuts and colors aren’t my preference), but the pants were a very good buy.

      2. I’ve been shopping Talbots (mostly used, but sometimes new as I can afford) since my 20s and my first Agent Scully lookalike job interview suit. They can’t be beat for consistency. My staples are from there and then I can easily add in something flashier if I want.

      3. Can you give some specific recs for cut or materials? I walked in to the local Talbots and walked right back out. Everything I touched was grandma-y and the clientele was absolutely the same. I’ve never felt so out of place in my life. I’m 37. A pear, and you can rip my ankle and straight legged pants from my cold, dead hands. I’ve ordered a few things and it’s been a complete whiff.

        1. Hampshire Ankle Pants are a staple for me. They’re pear friendly, and the length hits right at the ankle bone. They are more of a trouser cut than a skinny cut. The material is generally a synthetic blend, and fairly heavy weight for good structure. I wash mine in the machine and hang them to dry and they last for years. Also check the website for basic work dresses that they won’t have in the store. There are good choices every season.

          I’ve found that the in-store selection, even in the very large store near me, leans much more towards their casual looks (printed tee shirts, embroidered sweaters with pineapples and anchors, etc.), or what I call Talbots Hippie – many many paisley tunics. Honestly I would wear those things if I was retired, but don’t have the need for them now.

        2. Not the OP, but same. I wonder if it’s a case that they are good for mildly-pear-shaped ladies, but not for extreme pears in size 14 or something? I hear so many talk about the wonders of Talbots but I feel so dowdy and frumpy in anything I buy there that I have stopped wasting my money. It makes me wonder if there is a parallel universe where Talbots has a completely different vibe.

        3. I went to the nearest Talbots (8 hrs away) and asked for suits. The sales person offered me a casual matching set before the manager was able to pipe up and say, She means a business suit! They didn’t have any in stock, but I bought a wool blazer (Aberdeen) and didn’t even try on pants because there was nothing work-appropriate that didn’t have an elastic waist.

    3. Yes, some Rayon fabrics shrink.
      But not necessarily how you’d want them to…
      Woven Rayon might shrink only in one direction, for example, giving a shorter fabric. If it’s low quality and halfway cut on the bias, it might shrink on one side.
      Thick jersey knit Rayon in high quakity shrinks the least, in my experience.

    4. White House Black Market. I feel like the overall look of that store is a smidge desperate 40something divorcee (and as a 40something divorcee, it’s not what I am going for).

      But the pants are GREAT for a pear. I have a half dozen pairs that I bought in my post covid size for back to work and love them all. I have the slim crops and the slim boot cut trousers. Both are comfy and work as business woman pants in my work environment.

    5. I have the Old Navy high-waisted OGC chinos which come with elastic in the back and they are super comfortable. Size down though. I’m probably an 8 in pants (6 at Old Navy) and I wear a small in these.

  8. I’m transitioning from a high stress high income job that really took a toll on me during the pandemic to a lower stress job to get my life back. I’m also making less money. During the stressful period I got accustomed to throwing money at things because I had no time or because I was stressed. Now I’m trying to get more conscious about my spending. What are your favorite money saving or conscious spending tips?

    1. Think about what improves your life, and then find a low or no cost way to achieve it.

      If you love watching plays and have $$$, you buy Broadway tickets. If you are frugal, you become a volunteer usher to watch for free and hit up all the Shakespeare in the park you can. Utilize your public library – mine has a yoga series so I will skip paying studio prices. Want to see you friends? Meet up for a picnic at a beautiful park instead of dinner and drinks. Want a new dress for an event? Hit up the thrift stores. Etc.

      Also, keep your most impactful expenditure. My favorite is a cleaning service. Once a month is better than nothing

    2. I’m also working on this. Practicing slowing down helps me. Instead of telling myself I have fifteen minutes to scarf down takeout dinner in between emails, I’ll plan my evening so that I have an hour to prepare a nice meal, listen to music, call a friend, and then sit down and eat calmly. Or I’ll set aside a chunk of time to do household chores, but do them with an iced coffee in hand, not in a rush, etc.

    3. I made the same switch a few years ago, and what I found was that I had more time to do some of the things I was throwing money at. Having more time and mental capacity for things outside of work was one of the major benefits of making the switch.

      1. I agree with this completely. I made a similar switch, and because I had more time, I did not need to rely on meal prep services, takeout, or laundry service. I still pay a house cleaner, because that is a job I don’t do very well and really don’t enjoy. It is a lot easier to take care of the day to day when your work does not leave you completely depleted.

    4. Simple meal prep on the weekends: make a grain, roast some veggies, make a salad dressing, bake a batch of chicken (or other protein), have salad greens on hand and then mix and match these things all week long for lunch, maybe a dinner or two. Buy or portion out snack size amounts of fruit and also hummus, guacamole or other dips for veggies and crackers. I have young kids who always eat so I can’t get away with winging it like I did pre-kids, so planning ahead for me like I do for them has worked really well for my budget and my health numbers (cholesterol, blood pressure, etc).

    5. 1. Just not shopping. Unsubscribing from store emails and pitching catalogs straight in the recycling.
      2. Thinking about what gets you the most bang for your buck to pay the premium for. We almost never get takeout as a “I’m too tired to cook” stopgap – instead we always have super-easy lazy meals stocked up that cost $5 or less, like frozen pizza, bagged salad, etc.
      3. Cutting back on other discretionary spending that you want to keep but maybe don’t need AS MUCH – like keep the cleaning service but do it once or twice a month rather than weekly.

    6. Become a library enthusiast! Actual books, of course, but also look into your library’s programs for e-books and audiobooks. I think these are now standard offerings, and they’re equally free. If you have a DVD player, you can also borrow almost anything you’d want to watch.

      For fitness, if you can swing it up front, get an annual subscription to a studio or online platform that offers enough variety to keep you interested. This will be cheaper than paying for smaller packages, monthly, or especially per class unless you only go rarely.

      I agree with No Face on figuring out which expenses really bring you the most satisfaction, and keeping those.

    7. Cut out seamless/Uber eats and grocery delivery. If you want takeout, pick it up to avoid paying the added delivery fee and tip.

    8. • Stop the “it’s only $5 / $10 / $15 so why not” purchases, such as trying out the new ingredient, the fancy box of crackers, buying the new book, etc. Unless you really really care that you have the freedom to buy the thing. If so, budget $x per month for fun money/wildcard purchases.
      • If you buy high-end skincare, lotions, etc., you may not actually need all that stuff.
      • Save your purchases for what actually matters. I love fresh flowers, so I’ll buy those rather than buy a book I could get from the library.
      • Look at any subscriptions you’re paying for monthly and cut the ones you’re not really benefiting from. I have a “two streaming services at a time” rule, rather than “all the services.”
      • Cut out the “fancy” version when it’s not adding that much. Example; are you buying fancy water or expensive water, when the tap water in your area is perfectly fine? Are you buying the fancy wine or coffee when you don’t really care that much, and a lesser version would be OK with you? Conversely, if you really care about the coffee or wine or water, then budget for it so you can continue to enjoy it.
      • Set a budget. This is the biggest for me; it tells me when to rein in and when I have permission to spend. Look at how much income you have now, proportion everything needed for your fixed expenses (savings, retirement, donations, housing costs, insurance, etc.), and see what’s left. That’s what you have available to make discretionary lifestyle purchases with: food, entertainment, clothing, vacations, house decorations and upgrades, media and streaming, personal grooming, etc.

      1. +1 on the water comment

        I found it helpful to pick one beverage from this list: alcohol, coffee, tea, seltzer, kombucha, soda, mineral water, juice. The one I picked was the one I cared about (coffee), and the rest are intentionally excluded from my budget. I drink water from the fridge and pick up the occasional $4 jug of OJ at the grocery store if I want juice. There are two large boxes of Lipton’s and Bewley’s tea bags in the cupboard if I want some tea.

        Way too many people don’t look at the cost of what they are drinking as an easy place to cut back. And I don’t feel deprived doing this, while some of the other suggestions the OP received would make me feel like I was missing out.

      2. I stopped buying all my makeup/skincare/hair products at Sephora and started using cheap/drugstore products and guess what? Basically no difference.

    9. I dye my own hair every other month. I keep to a brownish color because it is not as hard to do as blond or red.

    10. I did this for similar reasons ten years ago and it was one of the best decisions of my life.
      Changes included:
      1. Far less clothing shopping (my clothes don’t matter in my new job and I don’t care about fashion)
      2. Less expensive or no makeup.
      3. Paid housecleaning once a month instead of twice.
      4. Library books instead of buying books (which I now love because I don’t have to get rid of books!)
      5. Initially moved to a lower-cost gym. During the pandemic, found an outdoor workout group and bought a Peloton. My monthly workout fees are now less than $50.
      6. Kept my car until it died instead of replacing it after only 5 years or so.
      7. Meet friends for walks or coffee dates instead of drinks or dinner.

      Changes I was not willing to make:
      1. I buy my coffee out a few times a week because it feels like a treat.
      2. Monthly massages.

      Those are the two places I spend my extra money regularly. I prefer to cook at home so restaurants/takeout was never an expense category.

      I hope your new job brings joy and peace to your life!

    11. Use an app to go through and find any subscriptions you have (cleaning, media, magazines) and end them, then add back in on a one-off basis.

      Unsubscribe or filter out promo emails from stores.

      Delete delivery/etc apps.

      1. Or, instead of paying a third party to comb through all your sensitive financial data, actually look at your bank and credit card statements. Read them. Download the data to Excel (or similar) and sort-n-summarize. Add a column for categories. Sort again. It’s eye-opening.

        1. Wait. What? People need help to read their statements? Oh man.
          That’s a good place to start – read and understand statements!

    12. Pay yourself first. If you want to put money in savings, have it automatically transferred or deposited every payday, before you even have a chance to see it.

  9. Musing for anyone who is interested…. Do you believe in karma? If so, in what form and why?

    1. Yes but in a very rational sense. E.g., when I volunteer for stuff and “do nice things” I find my life is more enjoyable — I get to know more people, I feel fulfilled, people sometimes do nice things for me in return, etc. When I do things that I shouldnt, I tend to feel bad or worry and that ruins my sense of well-being.

    2. As a Buddhist, yes I do, it’s a central tenet of my faith.
      Karma in my religion is something that happens across many lifetimes – not as simple as “I said something mean to my spouse and then on the way to work I got into a car accident.” Way more complex than that. And also, unknowable. Something that happens to us in this lifetime may be karma from several lifetimes back working itself out. Or it may be something completely random, happening outside our control. I was taught that it is not our business to worry about our karma, but to focus on following the eight-fold path and do what I can to relieve suffering in the world. And the karma will take care of itself.

    3. Along the same vein of Karma. I tend to see a pattern in my life that bad things come in 3’s. Usually if I have 3 bad events/our bad outcomes happen in a short amount of time something really great will happen shortly after. It makes absolutely no sense but for some reason it’s made me internalize there is a is a balance between good events and bad events happening.

    4. I am the least woo person ever but also have a strong sense of the universe as a balancer, which makes people laugh when I mention it. I think you get out what you put in – so if you go through life being kind, positive, and helpful, the universe is kind and helpful to you. Obviously this doesn’t take into account structural inequalities, serious illness (no one is bringing on cancer with their bad vibes), mental health issues, etc but for the everyday late train/flat tire/social interaction, etc…
      I have a friend who seems to always be in a crisis of one sort of another, and I think it’s because she’s such a grump. She’s a) looking for something to complain about and b) people don’t go out of their way to help her because she’s grumpy? I still like her, she’s a curmudgeon but she’s my curmudgeon, but I either don’t encounter the same problems or they don’t throw me off kilter the way they do her.

    5. No, some of the most evil people are running the world, just look at Musk and Bezos.

      1. This is the type of thinking that led to my question, and I’m interested in all perspectives.

        Yes, terrible people are running the world. However, I sure wouldn’t want to be any of them. This level of money and power means: they often don’t have anyone around who will tell them when they’re being stupid; they probably can’t really trust anyone’s motives in their personal lives; they’ve lost all perspective; they are the targets of understandable mass hatred. None of this negates the real influence they have (this is to say nothing of someone like Putin). But do I think they’re reaping any kind of cosmic rewards for their behavior? Not at all. I don’t see much in their lives that I would value or enjoy, at least.

    6. Yes and no. If I do something bad/mean/unlawful, it comes back to me in a hurry. Yet there’s plenty of people I know who are awful people, do underhanded things, engage in things like tax fraud and brag about it, and they are living the life – the high title jobs, crazy amounts of money, and they get exactly what they want, while I feel like I slog along.

    7. Yes, sort of – in a similar way to Cb above. And I use it if I’m struggling to make a decision – what’s the course of action that would lead to more positive karma

      1. I also find it helpful with my mood. If I’m grumpy, stopping to pick up a piece of litter, help a tourist take a photo of themselves, help someone who needs a hand helps me reset that.

        1. Exactly! Kind of like an application of the Golden Rule: treating the world as I would have it treat me

    8. Nope. But I’m currently seeing strong public opposition to a mixed market development that will help people be housed. It’s not just the elites are evil – it’s “regular” people too.

      1. I see this as well, but don’t see how it conflicts with an idea of karma. Regular people opposing housing programs could see some kind of karmic penalty for that at some point, or perhaps already are having that experience? I’m not saying this is definitely happening, but I don’t know that it isn’t.

        1. That’s a good point – I don’t exactly followup with the people opposing it years later to see if anything bad has happened to them.

    11. As a Hindu, yes I believe that you get what you put into the world.

      Or as the Spanish say…take what you want, says God. And pay for it.

  10. When you’re in a bad mood for no discernible reason, how do you snap out of it? A few minor inconveniences this morning have me a combo of cranky, angry, and close to bursting into tears. I slept well (for once!) last night, had a nice 1.5 mile sunny walk into the office, I’m not hungry, I’m hydrated and caffeinated and nothing bigger is going on in my life right now.

    I’m normally pretty even keeled but I’m absolutely miserable today and I don’t know why but I want to snap out of it! Like this is one of the worst moods I’ve been in in months.

      1. +1 And I also blame it on hormones.

        Also in the office – AirPods+spotify playlists can help.

    2. How are your B12 levels? I thought I was depressed until I got a blood test and found mine were too low. A daily B12 supplement brought back normal me.

      1. My blood test was a few months ago but everything was fine. I’d say my status quo emotion is neutral – I definitely get excited about things on a frequent basis but my day to day personality isn’t bubbly or anything. But I’m also not usually feeling down.

        This was very sudden onset – felt fine all morning until I bought breakfast today (both a $ and a calorie splurge) and my order was wrong and since then I’ve been so down. My office building is freezing today so I’m sitting here bundled up and furious that I’m cold.

        I’m getting drinks tonight with a few great and very fun friends I haven’t seen in about 6 weeks so I’m trying to snap out of it by then.

        1. Two days ago I was having a perfectly normal day, then afternoon hit and I was super cranky. I ended up breaking down in tears (by myself) because my home wifi won’t stay connected to my iPhone (which doesn’t matter because I have unlimited data that is fast), the Roomba is not working, and I was out of dishwasher soup.

          I checked my Clue app, realized it was prime PMS time, and felt slightly better just knowing that hormones be crazy.

          1. Ah good point! I don’t get a period with my birth control but I do still get PMS some months. Hopefully it’s just that.

        2. Sometimes, for me, a donut or something similar helps. The brain likes sugar, as does seratonin, so it helps. I hate to admit that this works, but as a non overweight person, not usually an emotional eater, it does help.

    3. Counter-intuitive, but I recognize it, accept it, and give it some room. It’s a mood. It’s temporary. It will pass on its own, so I don’t need to “snap” out of it. In the meantime, make sure I don’t take it out on others.

      For me, focusing on a bad mood, even to try to snap out of it, gives it more fuel.

      2. This. Just name it, lighten up, tap into you sense of humor about it, and let it pass like you’re surfing a wave, rather than try to stay rooted to the ocean floor and have it crash over you and take you out. When I’m in a mood like that, I just go into “do no damage” mode, put off whatever Big Thing I can until the next day, make sure I don’t send the email I really want to write, etc.

        Oh . . .and relax your shoulders and sit at your desk with a big (false) silly grin on your face. Your psyche doesn’t know the smile is false, and you’ll start to lighten up. If you sit there angry, scowling, and physically tightened up, your psyche will follow suit.

      3. Yup. It’s normal and it’ll pass. And for sure don’t take it out on anybody else, which will just make you feel worse.

    4. Take a break for some Youtube videos – Chris Farley SNL sketches, Muppet Show, whatever brand of silly is your thing.
      It’s impossible to be in a bad mood when you’re LIVING IN A VAN, DOWN BY THE RIVER.

    6. I’m in the same mood today. A bunch of fires at work, someone trying to blame me for their own delays, etc etc. I also literally have COVID, although I’m getting better. No idea how to really snap out of it but hoping today can be a camera off day

    7. In addition to the previous suggestions, I like to have a private all-out dance party if possible.
      Singing also increases the happy hormones.
      Watch a funny 5 minute YouTube video or a favorite reel or TikTok. (I recommend B Dylan Hollis.)
      Also, this is dumb but it does work – holding a pencil between your teeth mimics the smiling action and can trick your brain into thinking you’re happy.

    8. I have felt like this lately. I try to get outside and notice small things of beauty like flowers or the weather and generally appreciate and have gratitude for the small stuff.

    9. I go on YouTube and watch babies eating lemons for the first time. It’s one of the only things that can make me snap out of “a mood”.

  11. Any suggestions for casual sneakers like Supergas that have a wider toe box? I have some similarly styled Keens that rubbed my little toes, and I I ordered multiple sizes of Supergas hoping they would be wider but they still fit funny (fit fine everywhere but my little toes). Anyone have suggestions?

  12. I’m sure this issue has come up before here but I can’t find it.

    Is it ever ok to say in a networking meeting (not an interview) that one of the reasons you’re looking to leave your current position is because you’re topped out on salary? Mind you this isn’t the only reason or the most important reason, but I am in an industry that’s busy right now and there’s money to be made yet my particular employer has an old school pay system where you top out at x.

    Part of me thinks it’s ok to say it to “indicate” to people that if the jobs aren’t in x range, I’m not open to them just for experience. Part of me thinks men get offended when women say these types of things. I feel like when guys say these things to each other, there’s a lot of “understanding” regarding real estate is so expensive right now, of course you need a big house in the right school district for your 3 kids – what a great provider. Sometimes it seems like when women say these things you get some raised eyebrows or people wonder if you’re the primary breadwinner or single or divorced or something.

    1. I have used euphemisms like “looking to progress further which I can’t do where I am”

    2. I’d be more inclined to say that I was looking for a place with more growth opportunities (which seems to cover compensation growth without being as overt).

      1. yes, this, most people will hear that as “I want a promotion and more money and am currently blocked on that front” and understand.

  13. I go by my county courthouse each day here I. The steamy SEUS. Today’s gem: older man in what seemed to be a lavender and white seersucker suit.

    1. My boss was wearing a lavendar and white seersucker suit last week! Apparently, Perlis in New Orleans was offering them to their regulars. I thought it was awesome!

    2. Saw a gentleman wearing a blue and white one yesterday in DC. They’re pretty popular on the Hill because it’s a place where you still have to dress pretty formal and it’s steamy here. The Senate has historically done “seersucker Thursdays,” though I don’t know if the traditional is still alive.

    3. I have a peculiar fondness for a man in a seersucker suit. Lavender would be awesome. What I see regularly in the mid-south is the traditional blue, a lighter blue, tan, and a faded red akin to Nantucket red pants. I would love to see a lavender seersucker suit in the wild.

    4. Our annual judicial luncheon in the SEUS is littered with men in seersucker suits. I hope there is a lavender one this year!

    5. Today is National Seersucker Day for Congress! I think it’s an informal(?) annual tradition for those who want to participate. AKA Seersucker Thursday.

    6. I work at a county courthouse. Best I ever saw was attorney in a ball gown at a 9AM sentencing hearing. I asked her about her attire because I was curious…. worn night before and just hadn’t make it home yet to change.

      2. I just finally watched Goliath and was feeling skeptical about all the wacky “barely made it to court on time” shenanigans that feature in that show.

        But none of them were wackier than this; that’s amazing.

  14. Tell me it’s not me. I have repeatedly reminded people that my vacation begins tomorrow. As in, I will be out tomorrow. In emails: “I will be on vacation beginning 6/10 returning to the office 6/20.” Everyone seems totally perplexed that I am not available tomorrow; they didn’t forget my vacation they just thought it starts next week. I feel like I’m caught in some alternative reality where saying “I am out beginning 6/10” actually means “I will be available on 6/10 but unavailable starting 6/11.” Is there a better way I should’ve phrased this? I guess I’ll start saying, “my last day in the office will be X and I will return on Y” but I really don’t think my explanation was unclear?

    1. Skip the word beginning. “I am out of the office Friday 6/10 through the following week, returning June 20th.”

      And then use the OOO shading to block your calendar.

      1. Or “I will be out of the office and unavailable after 5pm on Thursday, June 9th and will be back in the office on Monday, June 20th.”

    2. This sounds like mostly a them-problem, but maybe they are thrown that your vacation doesn’t follow an exact calendar week. I think your wording is clear, but maybe switching it up so people don’t have to do the mental out-or-back math on the return date part would make it less confusing? Something like “I will be out this Friday and all of next week (6/10 through 6/19), returning on Monday, 6/20.”

    3. It’s because you’re starting on a Friday. They aren’t processing the date, just assuming you’re out a week because that’s typical. Only way to be clearer would be “beginning Friday, 6/10, returning Monday 6/20.”

      1. I’ll take a different approach and suggest that they are fixating on Friday. What if instead you said “my last day in the office this week will be Thursday”?

        1. I think this wording is clear. Personally numbered dates (“beginning 6/10”) just fly straight past me, even though I read them. “6/10” is some vague time in the future that has no meaning to me, even though a calendar is sitting right in front of me. If I see, “My last day here is Thursday, talk to me by then or wait a couple of weeks until I’m back,” that becomes concrete.

          1. That’s what I’ve done this week/late last week, when it’s close enough that I can say “next/this Friday 6/10” but I’ve been telling some people about my vacation for several weeks. Maybe I should include the day anyway – “Friday 6/10 returning Monday 6/20.”

      2. Could be. I feel like it’s not uncommon for people to take off Friday in the summer? In fact I think that’s why most people want me to be available – because they’re trying to skip out early. Maybe I should start taking off the Friday before vacation as a matter of course so I don’t get dumped on like people apparently thought they were going to do!

      3. This is my guess too. OP, I don’t think your wording is confusing, but to be extra clear, I do think it helps to put in the day of the week as well.

    4. I think people are weird but the wording could be a bit clearer. I would have said “I’ll be out of the office on vacation from June 10 through June 17. I’ll be back on Monday June 20.”

  15. Half the men in my office are all wearing baby duck yellow shirts today. It is subtle, some are wearing blazers or vests, some have polo shirts instead of oxfords, but I noticed and asked if it was intentional. Apparently they pick a color to wear each Thursday and are trying to make it a whole thing. We are very staid otherwise so it makes me smile to see all these stuffy pro-bros dressing like twinsies.

    1. My brother started Hawaiian-shirt Fridays at his office – for all genders (not compulsory obviously). Then they all go out to lunch together. Life is a grind so you have to make your fun where you find it, y’know?

    2. This is so cute.

      I went to a high school with a uniform that required boys to wear ties but they could choose which tie, which led to school wide bow tie Thursday’s.

    4. That is adorable! My old officemate and I turned up at our (very casual) office in two colours of buffalo plaid – he walked in and I said “Erm… this is awkward”. Our comms director had to take a photo and tweet it. My new colleague and I both have a penchant for linen sacks.

    6. That’s cute! In the last two years of high school my brother had to wear a suit and school tie (school very similar to the boys’ one in Heartstopper) and he and his friends wore pink shirts on Wednesdays (because of Mean Girls)

    9. I guess I’m the odd one out here – my first thought was why weren’t the women included in this attempt?!

      1. OP here. We are now! It’s the rules that you don’t tell anyone the plan unless they ask about it first. If you notice and ask, you are welcomed to join next week. But you can’t volunteer the info to anyone else, they have to ask.

    10. A beloved boss at a former job would wear a pink dress shirt every Friday, so when he was retiring everyone in the unit wore pink shirts on his last Friday. He was very touched when he noticed, and a group photo was taken.

    11. Many years ago as a very junior associate, a group of us started an annual Seersucker Suit Day. Some older partners even participated and we all went out for mint juleps after work. We do not live anywhere near the south. It still makes me smile.

  16. My preteen son has good skin thus far, but I’m wondering if I should get him in the habit of washing his face. Would a Cetaphil or something be too drying if he isn’t moisturizing afterwards?

    2. Get him in the habit of using a decent cleanser and moisturizing every morning with SPF and evening with whatever he prefers.

    4. Yes, and Cetaphil would be a great thing to start with, it should not be overly drying.

      if this helps for the future – my son’s cystic acne started in earnest when he was 13. We got him salicylic acid wash and benzoyl peroxide cream and it didn’t do a lot; we eventually got him on benzoyl peroxide wash and Differin gel and that helped a lot more. He saw a dermatologist who prescribed daily low-dose doxycycline, but it gave my son terrible stomach problems, and he didn’t continue with it. Our dermatologist was very reluctant to prescribe Accutane before exhausting all other options because of the potential serious side effects. So we just went with topical treatments – at one point when his acne was pretty serious I had him add in Stridex pads every other day, which seemed to help. He did experience some dry skin but we managed it with a light Neutrogena moisturizer. My son does have some barely-noticeable scarring on his cheeks, where the worst cysts were, but it’s faded a lot in just the last year or so.

    5. If you are worried about him eventually getting acne, please remember acne is not caused by dirty skin!

    6. A really nice gentle face wash is the Garnier Micellar Gel Wash I wouldn’t go for something with medicated vibes like Cetaphil if there’s nothing to fix

        2. I use Cetaphil to clean my make-up brushes, but my skin absolutely hates it, I get terrible skin from it. It might be some sort of foaming agent in it (even though I do not buy the foam one!!!).

          I love and can use the Garnier Micellar wash, and like it a lot even though I prefer cleansing balms on the whole. Would 100 recommend to sensitive and reactive skin, cannot say the same for Cetaphil.

  17. Best tips for dry, flakey skin around the nose please! I think it’s from allergies but am not sure.

    1. Like the kind of irritation from blowing your nose too much? Only Vaseline fixes that for me.

  18. Now that I’m back in the office at least a few days a week, I’m trying to go back to using reusable dishes and cutlery, but the office sink has no sponges. I’ve been using paper towels, but that’s not necessarily super eco-friendly either. Any suggestions? Communal sponges and dish brushes don’t seem to be a thing here (I started during the pandemic, so I don’t know how things were before), so I guess it would need to be something I could keep in my own office and bring to the kitchen when it’s time to do my daily dishes. Thanks!

    1. I “opted out” of the office reusables kindergarten drama a few years ago. I bring my lunch every day, and also bring whatever utensils I need as well. Then it all goes in with the regular at-home dishes each day. Same for cloth napkins/ kitchen towel placemats.

      If you’re looking to keep a fork, cup, etc. at your desk, try Swedish dishcloths- they dry quickly!

      1. When I worked in an office, this is what I did. The communal sink in my work area was always gross because people wouldn’t clean up after themselves. I’d bring my food in my snap-top glass containers, along with whatever utensils I needed and a cloth napkin, in my lunchbox. Everything went back into the lunchbox at the end of the day (along with my travel mug) and I’d wash it when I got home, or put it in the dishwasher. It helped to have multiples of the glass containers and mugs so I always had them at-the-ready.

        Zipping insulated lunchboxes help a lot with containing smells after lunch, if that’s what OP is concerned about, along with snapping the lid closed on the lunch container.

    2. are you trying to keep just one set of reusables at the office, or are you bringing them home anyway? If the latter, I would just rinse off in the sink but save the scrubbing for home. If you want a dish sponge for the office, one of those sponges you can fill the handle with dish soap might be good – if you keep them in a dry area between uses it prolongs the life of the sponge.

    3. I usually buy my lunch when I’m at the office, so I have a mug for coffee, an insulated cup for water, and a set of fork/knife/spoon in a little box at the office. It’s not very much, so I just keep everything at the office, especially since I commute by bike and try to avoid bringing too much stuff back and forth. The swedish dishcloth suggestion sounds perfect, I will check that out! Thanks!

    5. When I was pumping, I brought my own sponge and a travel size container of dishwashing detergent. I had a mini drying rack that I kept on my desk, so I could just leave stuff on my desk to air out. It’s made by OXO. Depends on your comfort level with leaving things out, though.

    6. My office has a dishwasher that no one uses because the logistics are not clear (ie who should run it and empty it). We have a communal sponge though.

    7. I eat out of the container I transported my food in, with a fork that I take home and put in the dishwasher. No need to wash dishes in the office.

  19. Hi everyone, my son was diagnosed with high functioning autism (Asperger’s) and profound giftedness (98th percentile in case it matters). He’s been disruptive in school, and his teacher has said the school doesn’t accommodate either Autism or giftedness. It’s a small private school with large class sizes. The public schools have pull-out gifted programs, and also they have the ability to restrain or isolate students when the teacher seems it necessary. For that reason I don’t feel safe having him at public school (never mind the gun situation which is heart wrenching of itself). So I’m weighing private ($33k/yr/kid and I have several children who are similarly described by their pediatrician as precocious but who have not yet been diagnosed and won’t be for months unless we are squeezed in through the waiting list) and homeschool (hiring an actual teacher and having tons of extra curricular activities like swim class/team, fencing, tennis, choir, etc). Had anyone been through this? I work full time (and probably also have Asperger’s and giftedness as so much of what I’m researching applies to most of my family, which we always though was just quirkiness) so have to be realistic in how much time and money I can afford. There’s also ongoing coats of weekly therapy likely until he’s an adult (all the kids go weekly), and I earn $200k and have property so don’t quality for assistance but live in a very expensive city. Divorced with an ex who is not a coparent, so can move but with difficulty. In Seattle in case that helps. The local university has programs but kiddo is in kindergarten (reading 3rd grade level, math 9th grade level, socially very awkward) and programs here don’t seem to cater for that age group for kids who are both bright and socially require reinforcement. Help??

    1. I wouldn’t go with homeschool. He’d learn well being a gifted student and all, but living in the world isn’t just about book knowledge and acing all the tests, it’s about interacting with people. For a kid like this, he needs as much interaction as possible to learn social norms that may not be routine to him; he’s not going to get that by going to swim or tennis for an hour per night – not in the same way that he’ll get it from being in school all day every day for 12 years. If cost is an issue, which I imagine it will be with multiple kids like this in a place like Seattle, I’d really think hard about moving to a LCOL city; you’d have to do your research to find cities that are lower cost but have good private schools with the programs you need, but I imagine they exist and everything will be cheaper from the schools themselves to property to property taxes.

      1. It doesn’t sound as though OP is prepared to homeschool, but I think this is pretty questionable advice. Autistic kids need to be working on the social skills they’ll use as adults, and that’s not generally something that school excels at teaching. Neurotypical people don’t always understand this. They pick up social skills like osmosis, and they codeswitch seamlessly, and they learn new sets of social skills multiple times over the course of their lives. But social skill acquisition can be so difficult with autism that it’s a huge advantage to get a head start on the social skills that makes sense in the real world (which are typically very different from the social skills that make sense in school). Sitting at home all day is a bad plan, sure, but getting out in the world and interacting with people of different ages and in different roles (not just same-age peers in a classroom) can be tremendously helpful.

      2. Public school + afterschool nanny with training in autism to take them to various appointments and facilitate playdates.

    2. You can’t afford private school and can’t home school because you work full time. I don’t understand why you’re even contemplating this. You need an IEP and a good public school. They’re not running around trying to restrain kids unnecessarily at a quality suburban public school.

    3. I think from what you have written that you will have to send him and your other children to public school, unless you want to find a much higher paying job. There is no other option, at least not in the short term. I suppose you could tap into your home equity to drain down your net worth to fund private schooling, but that would be terrible life advice. In the long term, some public school districts do pay for private schools but you can’t skip the step of sending your son there, showing that the settings are inappropriate or the assistance he is receiving is insufficient, and then fighting the district.

      You should definitely find a support group in your city. They can provide advice and reassurance about your options.

    4. Have you considered talking to your local public elementary teacher and principal about what it would actually look like for your child? Gun violence and being restrained are scary, but the former is (unfortunately) not limited to public schools, and the latter may be something that is on the books and unlikely to happen to your child. The Seattle Public schools have plenty of problems (a paid school board and steady funding that isn’t levee based might help), but from what I’ve understood from teacher friends and those with older kids, most of the staff are really quite good in most schools, and they will want to work with you. Now, they’re strained, and I don’t know how staffed they are for IEPs, but I don’t know that if dismiss them out of hand without a conversation.

      1. *This. We have two kids in Seattle, both in our public elementary school, and I have friends with kids in at least 4 other public elementary school around town. I have never heard of a child being restrained or isolated, and I frankly can’t imagine it. As Curious said, SPS has its problems, but there are multiple excellent public schools, as well as the Options schools if you’re looking outside your zoned neighborhood school. For “giftedness”, SPS has the Advanced Learners and Highly Capable programs, and there’s a choice for those students either to attend a dedicated AL/HCC school outside of their zone *or* stay with their zoned school with additional AL/HCC support. (FWIW, we opted for the latter for our two kids — we love our school community and don’t want to transfer schools. Our kids both scored 99/99 on their math/reading MAPs, and they’re getting plenty of academic support to meet them where they are.)

        I’d recommend touring some of the public school and asking more specific questions to the administration just to make sure you’re working from accurate information. If you still feel that your kids aren’t going to be well-served there, I have another friend whose son has thrived at Morningside Academy, a private school that provides more individualized attention for students whose needs aren’t met in other settings.

    5. I have a kid like this, girl though, who was diagnosed very late. She is in public school with an IEP. Her personality is very placid, so she doesn’t get into trouble. Her problems are with kids who can be very cruel (middle schoolers with phones via text now, but at least there’s evidence and I can see who “said” what). Academically she is progressing OK (and qualified for Duke TIP back when that was a thing), but 18 months of remote learning have left her behind where she could have been (no differentiated learning at all, no interventions, etc.). She really likes summer “camps” that our local state U does where the middle schoolers are on campus and get to eat in the dining hall and act like college kids. I think that college is in her future and while I don’t think she’d be comfortable doing something like sorority rush (unless there is a sorority that leans heavy into Anime and some other things like that) I am hopeful that she will hold PT jobs and pick up more social interaction skills that way. I hope that college for her will include a dorm or independent living at some point but have accepted that for her, living at home and commuting to local state U might be right for her.

      Every kid on the spectrum is different, but homeschooling would not have worked out for us. She likes me to do math homework alongside her just so we can compare notes on how we problem-solve and I enjoy doing that with her.

    6. I kind of like the idea of hiring a “governess”! I think a gifted kindergartener can get pretty far with good reading materials and educational apps these days.

      Conventional school can be harmful to gifted children who are also ND. I experienced profound hopelessness in the school environment mainly because giftedness and sensory sensitivities weren’t accommodated (and in all honesty couldn’t have been accommodated). Quitting school and spending that time at the library, learning from teachers outside of the school setting, learning life skills, and finding communities outside of school settings was like a cure and made for a happy childhood for me.

      As for teachers, my experience has been that teachers with education degrees have often learned how to teach allistic kids or how to pressure autistic kids to pretend harder to be allistic. I think teachers with MAs or PhDs in a particular area of study can be better suited to teaching gifted ND kids with a special interest than teachers with a background in education or special education (talking to PhD students just socially was a highlight of my life when I was a gifted ND kid and a huge motivator for me to make it to university myself).

      Explicit social skills instruction is great (“these are the social norms people expect you to follow; this is what they mean; here’s why they make people comfortable”). But sink-or-swim “socialization” is not as helpful, and the research shows that allistic people can spot an autistic person seeming “off” within moments of meeting them, no matter how much social training autistic people have received. So to some extent, we need to just embrace our strengths and not expend too much effort on trying to be something we’re not; it doesn’t work and can be discouraging in the end.

      If all your kids are in therapy I assume it’s real therapy. But I would also be cautious about any schools or teachers who promote or defend ABA therapy (you probably already know this, but I feel like it needs to be said).

    7. I went to a gifted program in a public school (VA) as a kid and tested similarly as your child. Had a great experience. I am not on the spectrum but I’d say 75% of the kids in my class were, looking back on this. By that I mean quirky, hyper fixation, maybe a little stimming but not, for example, having verbal or physical outbursts. You know your son but I think if there is basic self control and no physical outbursts your concern about restraints is way overblown.

    8. In Ohio we get the Autism Scholarship if your child’s autism/autistic behaviors is interfering with his school. It’s an educational autism diagnosis, different from medical diagnosis. Anyway it’s $33K a year, not need based, and we send our above-average IQ kid to a small school for ND learners. His second grade class was 12 kids, 2 teachers, still with an academic focus; they work in bands of 3 grade levels like Montessori (K-2, 3-5) for asynchronous learners, so a 3rd grader doing 4th grade math can easily be in that group. This school is $28K… there are other schools more like $50K but those are generally more behavior/therapy “schools” that don’t have a big academic focus.

      1. also you don’t want a school that restrains kids but rather one that has an occupational therapist, therapy dog, or behavioral therapist on site who can help everyone troubleshoot those times. My kid has periods of weeks where he’s like a wild monkey, running down hallways and flipping light switches and refusing to sit still in class — we came at it from a lot of different directions with OT, weighted vests, breathing, etc.

        I’m asking in another group for you, if I find out anything I’ll post in this thread later tonight or tomorrow.

    9. I’m surprised Seattle PS restrain kids. Are you sure? My mom and sister are both sped teachers in the Northeast, and neither of their districts does anymore. If need be, they can call 911 and the rescue squad will restrain a kid and take them to the hospital. That is quite rare.

  20. Help me figure out a relationship issue. My boyfriend has a bit of a history of being late / not great at communicating if he needs to reschedule plans. In the past, when I’ve tried to bring this up, he gets immediately defensive, kind of angry, and then accuses me of starting a fight “for no reason.” A few months ago, we had a conversation where I’d basically said, “these are my basic needs in a relationship – are you willing to commit to them?” The first was not arguing/fighting with me when I communicate feelings or boundaries, and the second was communicating proactively if he is going to be late or wants to change plans.

    Fast forward to last night. His parents are visiting, and we’ve been hanging out with them. I was supposed to go over to his apartment last night for dinner at 8 pm. I asked him a few hours beforehand if they were still feeling up for it. He says that his parents are just resting, and his mom is tired so he told her that we can order in instead of the original plan of her cooking for us. I text at 7:50 before going over to make sure the plan is still on, but don’t hear back, so I decide to Uber over. He texts me at 8 to say that his parents have just woken up, but that I should still come. He then texts me at 8:07 to say, “actually can you come at 8:40?” By this point, I’m already there.

    He meets me outside and says that the solution is that we will go pick up food for them, and then it will be 8:40 by the time we get home. I feel uncomfortable because it seems clear that his parents are exhausted, just woke up, and don’t seem like they’d necessarily want guests. I say that I’d prefer to just go home and we can schedule for next week, etc etc. I say gently/politely over and over again that it seems like they need rest and it makes sense to have it be a rest night for them. He keeps pushing back against this and finally I say, “well, I showed up and got a text saying to meet at 8:40 instead, so it feels a bit weird.”

    He immediately jumps into saying “Oh my god,” like he’s completely exasperated and then shuts down and refuses to engage. Just gets super defensive and acts like I’m the most annoying person in the world for having dared say that. Then accuses me of starting fights for no reason and says that this isn’t a big deal and there is no reason for me to make it a big deal. Also says that he didn’t know I’d show up at 8 (which to me feels silly, because our plan was at 8 and I texted him at 7:50 to confirm). Basically it just devolved into him seeming angry at me for trying to set boundaries around things, and me saying that I felt like that type of behavior wasn’t productive and makes it hard for me to feel comfortable voicing feelings/boundaries.

    Was I being out of line? Should I have just said “I’ll come over” and not worried about his parents being tired/needing rest? I guess the main thing I feel bad about is that I can’t just say “you texted me saying not to come until 8:40 when I was already here,” and not being met with anger/defensiveness immediately. But also I’m not sure if that’s an example of me not being able to be chill about things and just roll with the punches.

    2. Just break up. Stop trying to crowdsource who is right. No one is right. You both are right. Don’t date him!

      1. Exactly, one of the things that I have found to be an insurmountable obstacle in relationships is when two people cannot settle into a nondestructive style of resolving conflict. OP, you and your boyfriend seem to have difficulties communicating with each other productively. He also seems to leap to the conclusion that you are being difficult vs. hearing you out and trying to collaboratively find solutions. You could try counseling if you want, but I would just break up with him. When I was dating, I learned through difficult experience that if I had to have one “these are my boundaries and expectations, this is why I have them and if you can’t respect them, we should break up” conversation and after that, the dude still violated my boundaries and couldn’t meet my expectations? More conversations, and giving the dude more time to work on himself never fixed the problem(s).

    3. I’m like you, I like solid plans and I value punctuality. Respecting people’s time is a big deal to me. Some people are more fly by the seat of their pants, go with the flow types. To them, agreeableness/flexibility equates to respect, not so much time. There’s nothing wrong with either approach but you’re going to butt heads a lot if you try to make each other conform to your preference.

      In this specific instance he didn’t manage the situation or communicate well from the outset, but when you arrived he tried to find a compromise that he thought would be acceptable. You twisted yourself in knots worrying about being an imposition on his parents, thereby rejecting his attempted compromise and suggesting that you don’t trust his judgment on how to handle his own parents. I don’t think you tried to send that message – I believe you were trying to be considerate – but I think that’s probably the message he received, which is why you got the response you did.

      If you want to be together then you’re both going to have to give each other a lot more grace than you did here. You deserve to know when you need to be where, and he should communicate that to you. He deserves a little flexibility and trust from you when things don’t go according to plan. I don’t think either of you was 100% in the wrong here but the fact that these conflicts keep happening shows a fundamental disconnect that will be tough to overcome.

    4. Neither of you have to be objectively “wrong” for this to be a bad relationship. Some people are fine with lateness and last minute changes of plans, and some are not. Some people are fine with their partners gently bringing up things that they’re unhappy about in the relationship, and some are not. In order to be compatible, these traits need to align between two partners.

      Are you happy in this relationship or are you unhappy? It’s not about what you “should” feel, it’s about how you do feel.

      1. This. You’re not a good match. Checking in multiple times before hand would drive me bananas. Dinner is at 8? Show up at 8. He can text you if/when plans change. And roll with the punches if they do change – was it that big a deal to grab take out and eat later? I’d be exhausted by your drama too.

        I spend 3 weeks a year with my in laws – it would be a nightmare if people straight up cancelled because things were running 40 mins behind. Life is messy and doesn’t always run on schedule.

        1. Okay… but like… I checked in multiple times to see if they were too tired to meet… he said no… then texts me AFTER I’d arrived to say they’d been asleep and I’m not welcome in the house yet.

          1. Right, so, this bothers you. You don’t need to know whether it would bother us or whether it’s okay for you to be bothered. You are. The question for YOU (not us) to answer is whether you want to stay in a relationship with this person.

          2. You can be bothered by that. I’d be bothered by someone checking in multiple times. I strongly suspect his parents woke up and wanted some time to freshen up before dinner. You clearly need a punctual strict schedule with lots of communication and that’s not how he or his family operate. It’s not right or wrong, it’s just not a good match.

        2. Is wanting to show up at the agreed time and not be told I’m not allowed to enter the house really a “punctual strict” timeline? I didn’t even get upset with him; I just said that it seemed like it wasn’t a good night and they needed rest…

          1. Why does it matter if you eat at 8 or 8:40 though?

            Based on your responses you are convinced that you did everything exactly right. Not everyone is going to agree with you on that. If you’re like this all the time, I can see why he thinks you are exhausting.

          2. Because they were ASLEEP and it seemed inappropriate for me to enter a one-bedroom apartment when they weren’t comfortable having guests. Idk why saying “they’re asleep, seems like they need rest tonight” implies that I somehow am rigid and need everything my way. Some people genuinely care about other people’s needs and try to accommodate them…

          4. You seem super high maintenance…why check in multiple times? That would irritate me no end. You might think you’re being considerate. I’d think you were making excuses not to show up.

          5. Yeah, you have some control issues. Multiple different responders said neither of you is right or wrong, just mismatched (I agree) but you can’t accept it because you clearly need to prove to us random people that you are indeed right. Not happening. Get some therapy.

  21. Thanks to whoever recommended the JCrew Factory gauze shirt! I’m wearing it right now. Flattering fit and not see through. Now only if the PNW weather got the memo it’s June… guess they call it June-uary for a reason.

    1. Might have been me, the resident J.Crew Factory campaigner! Glad it’s working for you!

    2. Now I want this, too. It was so warm yesterday though that I’m glad for the rain today lol. I guess I’ve become a local after 8 years.

  22. Help me figure out a relationship issue. My boyfriend has a bit of a history of being late / not great at communicating if he needs to reschedule plans. In the past, when I’ve tried to bring this up, he gets immediately defensive, kind of angry, and then accuses me of starting a fight “for no reason.” A few months ago, we had a conversation where I’d basically said, “these are my basic needs in a relationship – are you willing to commit to them?” The first was not arguing/fighting with me when I communicate feelings or boundaries, and the second was communicating proactively if he is going to be late or wants to change plans.

    Fast forward to last night. His parents are visiting, and we’ve been hanging out with them. I was supposed to go over to his apartment last night for dinner at 8 pm. I asked him a few hours beforehand if they were still feeling up for it. He says that his parents are just resting, and his mom is tired so he told her that we can order in instead of the original plan of her cooking for us. I text at 7:50 before going over to make sure the plan is still on, but don’t hear back, so I decide to Uber over. He texts me at 8 to say that his parents have just woken up, but that I should still come. He then texts me at 8:07 to say, “actually can you come at 8:40?” By this point, I’m already there.

    He meets me outside and says that the solution is that we will go pick up food for them, and then it will be 8:40 by the time we get home. I feel uncomfortable because it seems clear that his parents are exhausted, just woke up, and don’t seem like they’d necessarily want guests. I say that I’d prefer to just go home and we can schedule for next week, etc etc. I say gently/politely over and over again that it seems like they need rest and it makes sense to have it be a rest night for them. He keeps pushing back against this and finally I say, “well, I showed up and got a text saying to meet at 8:40 instead, so it feels a bit weird.”

    He immediately jumps into saying “Oh my god,” like he’s completely exasperated and then shuts down and refuses to engage. Just gets super defensive and acts like I’m the most annoying person in the world for having dared say that. Then accuses me of starting fights for no reason and says that this isn’t a big deal and there is no reason for me to make it a big deal. Also says that he didn’t know I’d show up at 8 (which to me feels silly, because our plan was at 8 and I texted him at 7:50 to confirm). Basically it just devolved into him seeming angry at me for trying to set boundaries around things, and me saying that I felt like that type of behavior wasn’t productive and makes it hard for me to feel comfortable voicing feelings/boundaries.

    Was I being out of line? Should I have just said “I’ll come over” and not worried about his parents being tired/needing rest? I guess the main thing I feel bad about is that I can’t just say “you texted me saying not to come until 8:40 when I was already here,” and not being met with anger/defensiveness immediately. But also I’m not sure if that’s an example of me not being able to be chill about things and just roll with the punches.

    1. Defensiveness is one of the Gottmans’ Four Horsemen of the (Relationship) Apocalypse: https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/

      He’s showing you who he is. You have communicated your needs and he is showing you that he isn’t going to change. So. Three kinds of undesirable characteristics in a relationship:

      1. Dealbreakers. This would totally be a dealbreaker for me. Relationships are supposed to make you feel good, not bad.
      2. Price of admission. This seems like a high price of admission to me, but it’s your call.
      3. Things he does that you don’t like, and you’ve told him you don’t like, but that he is going to stop doing when you finally find the magic words to convey just how bad they make you feel.

      Spoiler alert: There is no Number 3.

      1. Thank you, Senior Attorney!! You always give the best advice. I was actually thinking, as part of this, about how to differentiate between dealbreakers and prices of admission. Can I ask – would the above be a dealbreaker for you because they are problematic attributes, or just because it sounds like they make ME feel bad? I guess I am trying to discern if I am too unreasonable about wanting timeliness / should be more patient with lack of communication around plans / better at communicating as to not prompt defensiveness. But would the described behaviors be dealbreakers to you based on them being not respectful in a more objective sense?

        1. From what you described his attributes aren’t making you feel bad. He is making you feel bad about yourself for having perfectly ordinary boundaries. He is punishing you for having perfectly ordinary boundaries. I am divorced from a hyper defensive man. He was exhausting. Day to day life is much nicer now.

        2. I commented above before I saw the double post. This dude sounds objectively exhausting. Anticipating that your partner needs lead time to work with changes in the plan is not something difficult to grasp or implement…

          1. Thank you for this. It makes me feel anxious/stressed every time it happens, but because of the reaction I get met with have worried that I’m just controlling and overreacting. The last time it happened he slept through our original plans to meet and then, once he woke up, said he was going to the gym. I asked him if he could try to hurry a bit at the gym so we’d still be able to meet before it got late, and he told me that he wasn’t willing to rush and that he resented having me impose structure on his weekends. I feel like to some extent he wants to not have to ever firmly commit to plans / try to preemptively communicate since it feels like a chore, even when it requires me constantly being available and willing to accommodate. But also, every time it happens, I wind up being the one to feel guilty for caring about it at all and not just being flexible/unphased to avoid conflict.

          2. Oh hell no. This would do it, for me. Us having plans =/= you sleeping, then heading to the gym and blaming me for trying to “structure your weekend” when I made reference to said plans.

          3. Well the nap/gym incident is a lot more telling than your OP. With this information, I don’t think the only issue is punctuality/flexibility. You are not a priority to him.

            Look my DH is more on the flexibility side and I’m very punctual. When we first started dating there were times that he would sleep right through our planned phone calls (we were long distance for a time) because he truly was exhausted and also he wasn’t used to the accountability that comes with dating someone. But he was always apologetic and he took steps to make sure it didn’t happen – we agreed to a set time every night, instead of a looser “we’ll make sure to talk!” and he started setting a loud blinking alarm in case he fell asleep. He showed me he cared by putting in effort. Then if little mishaps happened, like the power went out so his alarm didn’t work, then it was nbd to me because I knew he was doing his best. Your guy has not shown that. If he truly wanted to spend time with you and the long nap was a one off mistake, he would’ve skipped the gym. That’s really inexcusable.

          4. that oversleeping and gym thing makes my skin crawl. OP, he is taking you 500% for granted, dump him.

          5. OMG this guy is the worst. I was married to one of those and believe me when I tell you it doesn’t get better.

          7. Girl, he doesn’t want to consider you in his life. Dump this dude. You deserve better.

          1. This. It took me some time and tears to learn this. The question “Am I being unreasonable?” is hardly ever asked by someone who is actually being unreasonable.

        4. There is no such thing as objectivity when it comes to romantic relationships. This is not a trial, he does not have to meet a standard of [negligence/whatever] to justify you breaking up with him. You do not owe it to someone to give them a chance or work with their faults or otherwise mold yourself around his proclivities with no recognition of your own. And no one owes that to you either. You are allowed to be yourself. You are allowed to have preferences that some people might disagree with. You are allowed to want a partner who you find it easy to be with.

          Do not just accept any man who isn’t objectively terrible, a la, “He doesn’t beat me so he’s great.” Want better for yourself.

        5. It doesn’t matter if I think you’re unreasonable (which I don’t, BTW). You get to want what you want, and you get to be with somebody who provides what you want. That’s what a “good match” is.

          And yeah, this dude is also objectively unreasonable.

    2. “I guess the main thing I feel bad about is that I can’t just say “you texted me saying not to come until 8:40 when I was already here,” and not being met with anger/defensiveness immediately. ”

      It is not unreasonable for you to want a simple statement of fact to not be met with anger and defensiveness. That is the issue here. I’d say he doesn’t fit that bill and dump him. Especially since you already tried to have this conversation with him.

    3. Based just on this example I’d consider cutting him a bit of slack. It sounds like he was being pulled between pleasing his parents/accommodating their needs and also being polite to you and managing your feelings.

      You said that you said “over and over” again that perhaps you should just go home. Do you think it felt to him that you were labouring the point? It can be frustrating to be constantly second guessed by your partner.

      1. Probably it would have been more efficient for her to just say “it sounds like they’re done for the night. I’m going to go home, and let’s reschedule.” If he were to get angry about that as well, then it shows he isn’t actually ok with her holding any boundaries around her time.

      3. Yes, it sounds like you were saying, “If we can’t do this on my preferred timeline, I don’t want to do it at all,” using what you perceive his parents’ feelings were as an excuse to flounce off. I’m guilty of having the same knee-jerk instinct and have to constantly fight to overcome it. As mentioned above, he knows his parents better than you do and he was trying to work it out. He probably felt he was being flexible and communicating ahead by texting 7 min later to ask you to postpone, not knowing you were already on your way over. I am usually you in this scenario and get where you’re coming from, but I can completely understand why bf was super exasperated and felt you were making a big deal out of nothing, especially as his plan to go out, get food, and come home by 8:40 actually works for everyone involved, but you kept saying “no, no, no, I’m leaving.”

        1. Hmm… not to get defensive, but I guess it seems like it isn’t “my preferred timeline” so much as the timeline we agreed on? We had plans for 8, and he texted me after 8 to push it closer to 9. It was clear I wasn’t even welcome in the house at the time I’d shown up / we’d agreed upon because his parents were just now waking up. It seems like if he knew his parents were asleep, he could’ve texted me when they were first napping to tell me to change the plans to later, rather than wait until after the time we’d agreed on had already passed.

          1. I kind of see both sides. Dinner at 8 is late for me, personally, and I would not be cool with dinner at 8:40 (what’s with the weird time?) on a weeknight. I would be pretty hangry by then and could totally see myself getting way too annoyed. But also if you want to remove yourself from the situation then just go, don’t repeatedly say you’re leaving like you’re asking for permission. “Oh no I’m sorry to miss them, I’m actually super hungry and I have to get up early so I can’t stay for a late dinner, can we try for dinner tomorrow?”

            OTOH he was dealing with guests dragging their feet and I don’t think it’s fair to blame him for that.

            I’m general – I have a bunch of friends like this. I find it key to my sanity to just continue on with my life and not bend over backwards for them. If we can meet up great if not I’ll see you next time.

          2. You asked for feedback, so here’s mine:

            When I texted at 10 till 8 and didn’t get a response, I wouldn’t have left my house. If someone isn’t paying attention to their notifications 10 minutes before I’m supposed to be at their place, I am going to assume maybe something is going on, things are running behind, etc. Then when he texted after 8 asking to push back the timeline, I would have said, if they just got up, your parents must be tired and we don’t have to meet up tonight. If at that point he’d said, yes come over but push it back to 8:40, I would have considered whether or not that timing worked for ME and if it did not, I would have said, sorry that’s a little late for me to be out on a school night, maybe we can meet up tomorrow. Or if it wasn’t a big deal for me, I would have gone over.

            Two things:
            – I understand valuing punctuality but things happen, especially when people are visiting, and a flexible mindset is a great thing to have and will greatly ease your stress in life, because not everyone values on-the-dot punctuality the way you do.
            – Stop being so concerned about what your boyfriend wants or needs and think about what you want or need. You are not married to this man. So if the way he operates is not working for you, just call it for what it is and walk away. You would likely be happier with someone who is much better about sticking to a timeline and communicating proactively. That man is out there for you, somewhere. But your current man is not that man. Know when you’re wasting your own time and effort and when to move on vs. approaching this like a fixer-upper opportunity where if you just coach him enough, he will become the man you want him to be. That never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever works.

      4. This. I don’t get why this situation resulted in so much drama. It’s like you didn’t want to attend the dinner with his parents but didn’t want to own the responsibility of cancelling.

        1. But I showed up at the time we were supposed to get dinner and they were… in bed and not able to meet? I wasn’t angry, and I genuinely would’ve loved to meet if they were ready. I just told him that it seemed like it wasn’t a good night to get dinner based on the fact that they were in bed when I arrived and I wasn’t welcome in the apartment.

          1. Yeah, one could just as easily say he created “drama” by way of a totally preventable situation where you’d arrived at the agreed-upon time, his parents were asleep, and you were not allowed to come in.

            It doesn’t matter if some other people would be ok with this. You aren’t, and I wouldn’t be either.

          2. But how is their behavior his fault? It’s like you were super bothered by the 40 min delay but didn’t want to own cancelling. If you don’t want to roll with the new plan just go home. Instead you were pushy about making it seem like they were cancelling on you vs just running late. The whole thing is unnecessarily difficult and dramatic on both your parts.

          3. Their behavior isn’t his fault. It’s just that if they were asleep, I would’ve wanted him to text me to tell me that before Ubered to his house. It was a cold night and I would’ve preferred to not be expected to kill 40 minutes wandering outside the apartment when it wasn’t clear that they really wanted to hang out at all. I

  23. My hair is pretty fine and I usually wash it every 2-3 days. It usually becomes limp oily, although I got a haircut with layers a little while ago which helps. I have COVID so I haven’t left the house since Monday or done anything sweaty of course, and haven’t washed my hair since I think Sunday – and it looks fine. It looks good? What gives here? Usually if I like blow out my hair for an event I have to wash it again the next day.

    1. Maybe your body using more water than usual in fighting Covid so there’s less normal sweat in your hair :). Feel better!

    2. It’s so dirty the filth is plumping it up. If it’s greasy after 2-3 days wash it daily.

    3. During the pandemic, I realized that my hair gets to the point where it needs to be washed much faster after I have put styling products etc in it. I don’t know if the styling products attract more dirt/oil or just break down into something that doesn’t feel or look good, but there is such a big difference on day 3.

  24. I grew up the child of a mother who had grown up very poor, raised by her mother who was also poor. I am now Not Poor, in BigLaw with middle schoolers. I have cleaners (since kid #2 was afraid of vacuums), but they just come once a month because 1) I can only bear getting ready for them once a month and 2) I don’t want my kids to think that cleaning isn’t their daily job when it everyone’s daily job. Since my kids were home from school for 18 months, #2 is a thing that they do (with prompting, hopefully getting better over time). No one in my family has ever raised kids when they’ve had $ and I have this thought that we have enough $ to get them bad habits (cleaning is for the help) and not enough $ that they’d survive long in a world where they weren’t industrious. I am not sure how to strike the right balance (or as Wanda Sykes has said that she says to her kids: you’re not rich; I’M RICH).

    1. I mean this is a lot of words to basically convey you feel guilty about having a housekeeper. There’s plenty of daily pick up and chores to do even with a weekly housekeeper.

      1. +1

        I’m not in Big Law and we’re comfortable but not what I consider capital R rich, especially by the standards of this board. We have a cleaning service because it’s important to us and we go without other things we’d like so we have room in the budget for it. Our kid is young (preschool) but already understands on a basic level that it’s our money, not hers, and that she will have to work and save money as an adult if she wants to have a cleaning service too. She also has to pick up before they come and do other chores.

        I grew up with a mom who worked outside the home AND scrubbed our toilets and a dad who did nothing, and I think that was a helluva lot more toxic than my kid’s upbringing where both parents work outside the home, earn money and equitably share the chores they can’t outsource.

    2. Set boundaries! If you set the expectation that they clean up at themselves, it doesn’t matter if they have a cleaner. If you set the values that hard work is important and you treat everyone with respect, it doesn’t matter if they theoretically have enough money to flout those things. You gotta make sure you’re being clear with them about what values you want to instill and what’s important.

    3. I have cousins close in age to myself they grew up with weekly cleaning. Which seemed extra luxe to me given both my aunt and uncle were retired from working by then (kind of accidental FIRE couple after a windfall). I don’t think the weekly cleaning instilled bad habits. They are both keep clean homes themselves today without cleaning services. But I will say it seemed like they lack common sense because their parents had the bandwidth to plan every detail of their day for them. They never had to think threw any event or task. There are plenty of opportunities to give them house hold responsibilities, and let them fail at things from time to time in their daily lives (ex. they forget to complete homework for school they’ll receive a bad grade, etc.). Maybe it can be there job to help tidy for the cleaning crew before they arrive.

    4. DH struggled with similar issues. We are clear to the kids that cleaners have a respectable job just like anyone else. They know they have to clean up their toys before the cleaners can wash the floors. By employing someone, you are giving them a job and you are giving yourself more free time with your kids. Both are great.

      There’s lots of chores to keep kids busy with being responsible. Having cleaners doesn’t take away from that – ours take turns unloading the dishwasher, cleaning up after the dog in the yard, putting away laundry, sweeping or vacuuming the floor after dinner, wipe downs in the bathroom in between cleaner visits.

    5. In addition to the normal picking up after yourself, I’d assign weekly cleaning chores. I grew up as the one middle class kid surrounded by wealthy people and quite a few of my friends didn’t know how to clean. Smart, competent, nice people but moved into an off campus apartment in college and had never cleaned a bathroom before and didn’t know where to start.

      1. This was my daughter. I have a housekeeper her entire life (every 2 weeks) and our housekeeper cleaned the bathrooms. She had literally never done it in her life. (She had plenty of chores but I focused on the things I actually needed done like dishes and pet care.)

        Then she had a college dorm where she shared a bathroom with her roommate and guess what? She googled “how to clean a bathroom” and did just fine. She also learned to do laundry, how often to change sheets and towels and how to vacuum. It is not rocket science. There are plenty of life skills kids need to learn but I would not agonize too much over sending your kid off into the world and them not have a clue how to do basic household tasks.

    6. We’ve had biweekly cleaners since my son was in diapers and I was worried about these issues (entitlement, and inability to clean for himself). I know how to clean because we did not have household help.

      As others are saying, there’s considerable maintenance that goes on in between housekeeper visits and you need to get your kids engaged in those tasks and make them responsible for completing them, weekly or more frequently (as needed). My son was in a Montessori school where they emphasized kids participating in household tasks, and so we just started integrating him in the between-cleaning-visits cleaning and taught him how to sweep and mop a floor, how to wipe down counters, how to clean a sink/faucet/mirror, etc. We also taught him how to change his own sheets and do his own laundry, and how to do dishes by hand, as well as how to load a dishwasher properly (man, that created some marital strife) and how to unload it and put everything away.

      He’s 16 now and working his first summer job. Yesterday at work he had to go in and clean the men’s bathroom at closing. His manager came in to inspect his work and was like, you are the best cleaner we’ve had in years, who taught you how to clean a bathroom like this? He said, my parents. Then he said, I hope this doesn’t mean I’m going to get stuck cleaning the bathroom all summer and the manager laughed, which I think means yes, he will be stuck doing it.

      So despite us having help, the interstitial cleaning we had him do did get absorbed. If you engage your kids in helping you clean the house, it will sink in for them also.

    7. I don’t have anything to add that hasn’t already been said, but now I remember that when I lived at home for a few months after college, my “rent” was to do everything the cleaning person did on the off weeks (I think my mom paid for cleaners once per month). My mom let me know that deal was good for up to (I think?) six months, then I would have to pay actual rent if I stayed longer (which I didn’t need to do since I realllllly didn’t want to live at home and moved out after a couple of months).

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