ByKat Hours Updated
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Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Split Neck Top

Floral Top: Pleione Split Neck TopOur daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. I got this relaxed top in a green and black print in the fall and wore the heck out of it with cropped ankle pants and a long black cardigan. My print feels a little heavy/autumnal now, but I really did like the top, so I'm eyeing these more springy colors. Turquoise with diamonds? Cream and black crosshatch? Hmmmn. Instructions say to hand wash/line dry; I'm almost 100% certain I just threw it in the regular wash and line dried it, but proceed at your own risk. I thought the neckline was a bit low so I wore a camisole underneath. By my count there are about 16 different colors and prints available right now, in regular and petites, priced $28-$48; the pictured top is $48. Pleione Split Neck Top Two plus-size options are this top and this top. Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-2)

Sales of note for 12.3.24 (lots of Cyber Monday deals extended, usually until 12/3 at midnight)

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

214 Comments

  1. I’m leaving this weekend for a trip to an all-inclusive resort in the Mayan Riviera, Mexico, and am trying to decide whether I should do any day trips. Has anyone been to this area who can recommend a must-do day trip?

    1. If you like history – definitely do Chichen Itza and get a guided tour. Tulum is also great.

      1. Yes!! I’ve done both of these and they were great. I think Tulum edged out Chichen Itza for me, just because the beach is so beautiful.

      2. I wouldn’t do both in the same trip unless you’re REALLY into Mayan ruins. I think they’re repetitive and I’d go for Tulum: it’s better and closer to Cancun, and can be combined with activities like snorkeling and cenote swimming.

      4. hated Chichen Itza because of all of the vendors, and it was an entire day away from the beach for us and a lot of time on buses and transferring buses. We stopped in a town on the way home to see a sink hole which was actually kind of cool.

        I loved Tulum Xtreme, zipline, and snorkeling in cave. Tulum is really cool. I think this was even the cheapest of the three I’ve done.

        I also wasn’t a fan of the dolphins but that’s because I am very allergic to fish and shell fish and they throw fish to the dolphins the whole time. Plus I think it’s mean. But my girlfriend really wanted to do it.

        1. Sorry – we swam with the dolphins. I am not sure what company we used since it was through our hotel. Three was way too many for a 10 day stay but we also went in December so the days were short and it was sad to take away three whole days from the beach.

        2. I think those dolphin swim experiences are so cruel. I begged my parents to let me do one as a kid but would never do it now.

        3. Can I ask why the dolphin swim experiences are cruel? I did one in New Zealand, so maybe not the same thing, but we were out in a large bay, and dolphins would just approach because they were curious. We weren’t allowed to touch the dolphins and they didn’t feed them, but we could click our goggles, which they seemed to find entertaining. One dolphin swam in circles around me, it was amazing.

          1. That sounds very different than what they have in Mexico and what I was referring to. The ones in Mexico have caged dolphins in tanks (like Sea World) and in addition to petting them, the dolphins perform for you and you ride them. I have no problems with zoos in general, but I do object to the circus and this was more like a circus than a zoo in my opinion, or at least close enough in that direction that I’m no longer uncomfortable with it.
            What you did in New Zealand sounds amazing and not cruel at all. (PS. Where did you do it because now I want to do it!)

            I’ve also done feeding tours (sharks and sting rays) where they feed the animals and then you snorkel with them, and I have kind of mixed feelings about those – I definitely don’t think it’s cruel in the same way a circus or riding a caged animal is, but it certainly is a little unnatural because the animal is learning to depend on humans for food.

    2. I went last fall and did a day trip that included a tour of the ruins at Tulum, swimming with sea turtles, and swimming in a cenote. It was fantastic and the highlight of the trip! I’m not really much for laying at a pool all day, so depending on how long you’ll be at the resort, getting away for a day to explore is a nice change of pace.

      1. Not the OP, but can I ask what company you went with? I’m hopefully headed to Cancun this summer and want to do a Tulum + Akumal + cenote tour.

        1. Akumal swimming with turtles was WONDERFUL. We went with a tour, but if you have a rental car, you can totally just drive to the beach yourself.

          Swimming in a cenote is another wonderful, must-not-miss experience.

          Most of the hotels have tours you can book directly through them. We stayed at Valentin Imperial Maya and the tours we signed up for were all great.

          1. Love the Valentin! We are headed back this year for our third visit. On our last trip, we took an excursion that spent the morning at Tulum, then down to Akumal bay to snorkel, and then to a zip line and cave snorkel. It was a great day.

    3. Just got back. I was not impressed with the Tulum ruins. Very crowded and lots of people trying to sell you guided tours. There’s a Starbucks right outside. Maybe I was just hot and cranky. There is a neat little beach there though, so if you go, wear a swimsuit.

      We went to the Xel-Ha park, which was awesome. An all inclusive pass includes most of the activities plus food at all the restaurants and drinks at their bars all day. The grounds were clean and well-kept, the lazy river was the greatest, and there were lots of cliff-jumping, zip-lining, snorkeling type things to do. You could also pay extra for things like swimming with dolphins or doing a snuba (snorkel scuba type thing involving an underwater helmet of sorts). There is a whole series of similar parks, all starting with X. Xplor looked cool too – you get access to an amphibeous watercraft and can do a bunch of really high ziplines. Both were right off the main highway within an hour’s drive of Riviera Maya and Tulum. Your resort could probably help you with tickets and transpo. Recommend doing the lazy river and getting flippers to help you steer, and stopping at the little docks here and there just to take it all in.

      We also did a day trip at Sian Ka’an, which was fabulous. They only take up to 6 on a tiny boat and you spend the day motoring around different beaches, ecosystems, islands, and marshes. It was really cool. They pick up but only in or close to Tulum. I don’t think they would go all the way to Riviera Maya. Again, your resort can probably help you with that.

      We did Centoes Dos Ojos, which was beautiful. I’m sure there are excursions you can buy through your hotel for cenotes tours. We were on our own and it was a little hard to figure out – you have to stop at the entrance, pay for a ticket, then drive back into the woods, park again…it’s a whole thing. I heard about tours that did a whole day and you got to visit multiple cenotes. My $.02 is that one was enough, especially if it kept me from being dragged on an off a bus all day. Also, it didn’t seem worth it to snorkel there, although there were some people with equipment. There wasn’t much to see underwater. There were some folks scuba-ing which appeared to take them underground between cenotes, which gave me crazy claustrophobia just to think about.

      I recall doing a catamaran tour years ago that took us to Chichen Itza and then snorkeling, and that was super fun.

      Have fun!

      1. FYI it’s my understanding that Riviera Maya actually refers to that whole coastal area, from south of Cancun to just south of Tulum. Unless you’re referring to a specific resort?

        In any case, the snorkeling/scuba in the cenote was really cool (literally-it was nice to get out of the sun for a day) the Tulum ruins are beautiful and have beautiful views but sometimes really crowded. Chichen Itza is a trek, but I liked how you could really see how it emerged from the jungle, and then was taken back over by the jungle after its heyday (but seriously, it is really way out there in the jungle).

        1. I think you’re right – I may have been confusing it with Playa del Carmen which is between Cancun and Tulum.

    4. I just came back! Fabulous weather and beach. We did a day trip to Playa del Carmen for shopping but otherwise floated in the pool, drank fruity drinks and played in the ocean. Dreamy. Not happy to be back to work today!

    5. Haven’t tried it myself, but Tours by Flavio has gotten good reviews on Trip Advisor.

    6. Edventures was awesome for the more adventurous. It is run by an American man who married a Mexican woman. They pick you up at the hotel and do so many fun things- we saw the ruins, then we went zip lining, cliff jumping (into a lake), snorkeled in cenotes, snorkeled with sea turtles and with other fish. It was topped off with a stop at a famous bar for a drink/meal at La Buena Vida- which is literally on the beach and was just amazing. I couldn’t recommend this outing more!

  2. Good morning ladies! What are some of the best programs, cost-saving techniques, or other ideas at your company?

    My company’s management is eager to implement some new programs, ideas, etc. and is looking for suggestions (anything really, ranging from employee benefits to cost saving techniques). I have a few I would love to see implement, such as a mentorship program and negotiated rates with fedex (I mean, seriously, I can’t believe we do not do this) and am looking for more ideas. What are some of the best programs, cost-saving techniques, or other ideas at your company or elsewhere that you know of?

      1. I am inhouse – we currently enter time into an excel spreadsheet and it is individually coded by our billing people (seems horribly inefficient, but nobody seems to want to pay for billing software), we use title and recording services, legal services from outside counsel. Lync for phone systems, an office supply company…

        1. My university switched all the phones to VOIP years ago and apparently saved a ton of money. I like that now my phone emails me my voicemails (as attachments, so I can listen to them while not actually in my office), and I can dial my phone with my computer, etc. Also, really good caller ID is involved, which is nice.

    2. Make all printing default to double sided. Someone can still change it to single sided but people who don’t care, it’ll be double sided.

      Get motion censor lights.

      1. Our office does both of these things; agree they’re good defaults for cost-savings.

        We also use Compass Healthcare Professionals in conjunction with our regular (not so great) health benefits. Your company has an actual point person you can talk to that will find the cheapest place to get a procedure in your area, explain bills, all sorts of healthcare tasks. I’ve found them to be really helpful.

  3. Where can I find family photoshoot location ideas? I recently relocated to Northern Virginia, and my husband will be doing the photos, but we just need to find a good location for a vintage, rustic style photoshoot. Is there a website that has compiles info like this? Feel like it is probably a common question, but maybe not!

    1. Are you looking for rustic buildings? Rural farmland? Pretty landscapes?

      If you head out to Loudoun County, there are some lovely area – Middleburg probably being one of the more picturesque. For “mountain” views, head out to Bluemont. The town of Waterford has some very old buildings and lovely surrounding farms. If you want something with waterfalls, head to Great Falls (VA, DC, and MD all have picturesque locations).

      You also have Mount Vernon in NoVA, as well as the Manassas Battlefields (accessible off Route 29). My sister got married at Meadowlark Botanical Gardens in FFX Co – it’s quite lovely and should have nice flowers starting to bloom. There’s also Huntley Meadows in Alexandria.

      Here’s a link to 10 hidden waterfalls in MD: http://www.onlyinyourstate.com/maryland/md-hidden-waterfalls/

    2. Nature as photo op, one of the preferred pastimes of the DC Urban Moms set. Why don’t you hop over there and ask them?

    3. The national arboretum could work well for you if your husband is doing the photos and not a commercial photographer.

    4. Look around in the weddings/engagement section of Washingtonian online. Quite a lot of the weddings and engagement photo shoots take place in rustic scenery that could easily translate into a family photoshoot.

    5. Could you stalk the websites/FB pages of some pro photographers in your area and see where they shoot?

  4. I have this top in a few different solids and patterns and I love it! I think we have the same green and black print. :) My solid black and white versions have the poly front but a soft jersey back, which I love.

    1. Oh I have other tops with the poly front/soft jersey back (maybe also from Pleione?) but they’re all long sleeve — this one is all poly. I kind of prefer that since the drape is better; some of the soft jersey ones wrinkle/cling like mad.

      1. Weird – I also have this top (called exactly the same name) where the back is jersey. Maybe that’s only for the solids and not the prints?

  5. Any suggestions from the hive for how to make long-distance job hunting less inefficient?

    Background: Work in finance/banking. I’m looking to move from a large Southern city to a smaller one in the next state over for personal reasons. It’s about a nine hour drive, so I could make an in-person interview happen but I’d need warning to get things arranged. I have gotten turned down flat from multiple companies with some variation of “Thank you for applying. We see you stated you wish to move from CurrentState to OtherState once you find a job. Please feel free to contact us again after you have already moved to OtherState,” which misses the point by an infuriating margin.

    The last time I moved between states, I didn’t get a single response until after I could put an address in the right city on my resume. Is that the norm?

    1. If you’re not already doing this, I’d suggest that you mention in your cover letter whether or not you’re looking for relocation expenses to be covered. It may be that the positions you’re applying for are not offering relocation as part of the deal (i.e. it’s not in the budget at the hiring firm), and if you’re willing to move without a relo package, I’d be upfront about that.

    2. I’ve moved from PA to Florida to DE and back to FL successfully and had a new job every time.

      The trick is to not say you plan on moving until you get a job–that makes them nervous.

      Every time I’ve done it, I say in the cover letter, “I’ll be moving to the X area in STATE in May 2016”. By giving a set date and, they thought I was more serious and didn’t hesitate to call me.

      Of course, that means that if you get the job, you have to be prepared to up and move quickly. I always did so within 3 weeks. I would finish out a 2-week notice period, move, then spend a couple of days unpacking and be right at work.

      1. And as Minnie Beebe said, being willing to forgo relocation help is a big help. By me saying “I’m already planning to move and will be there by X”, they felt more confident that I wasn’t going to get cold feet and or expect them to fork out thousands, which is why most companies prefer local companies.

      2. +1 Don’t say you’ll move as soon as you get a job. Say you’re moving on X date. You don’t have to follow through with it unless you get a job.

    3. I got a lot more interviews when I said “I’ll be relocating on X date and will be in the area from A date to B date if you are able to accommodate a meeting during that time.” (or something similar). Once I started saying I’d be in their area during a specific time frame, I was able to get interviews, I assume because they knew I was serious about relocating and there was no risk that I’d be expecting them to fly me out. It was also easy – I’d be there then and if they had time, they met with me.

      I also think you need to have a local address on your resume. So your header on your resume would be “Jane Doe. Address as of 6/1/16: 123 Maple Street, new city. Current Mailing Address: 123 Oak Drive, current city.”

      If you have any connection to the new city, include it in your cover letter if it make sense to do so. If you can say something like, I’ve submitted my application to join the local county bar association, or something similar, again you’re demonstrating commitment to the area.

      1. I disagree – I don’t put addresses on my resumees, but I think a local phone number helps. Can you get one and have it forwarded to whatever phone number you usually use? You could also get a PO box or use a friend’s mailing address, if you really do have to do that.

        1. I recently heard this advice, not to put an address on your resume. It makes sense, because it’s highly unlikely that they’re going to mail you anything before you have the job, so email and phone number is all you need. Is this the new norm?

        3. That may be true generally, but the point here is to demonstrate a local presence for someone who is relocating, not general resume advice. As someone who has interviewed a lot of attorneys and if someone seems to be in a totally different city, having an address in the new city would send the message he/she is committed to moving. Could leave off the current address.

      2. I’ve seen suggestions to leave your address off your resume. With cell phones, out of state area codes are no longer an anomaly. Unless you need a local certification, maybe don’t lead with the fact that you don’t live there?

        1. Wouldn’t they still be able to tell by your employment history if you have your current job listed as ” – Present”? Maybe it’s different for other professions but as a midlevel associate who had a lot of classmates caught up in layoffs who then took years to find new legal jobs, I wouldn’t make the tradeoff of making it seem like I was not currently employed in good standing just to show a local address.

  6. Love this top. I was just thinking that I need more soft blouses with buttons for my work wardrobe. This would be perfect! Great pick!

    1. Just FYI, this blouse doesn’t have buttons – it’s a popover-style shirt. I actually love it and have it in multiple colors, but I find it a bit boxy for tucking into work bottoms.

      1. I also have several of these tops and love them. I wear them untucked with pencil skirts and usually an open cardigan. They are a bit boxy, but I like that when I pair it with slimmer bottoms.

      2. I might need to invest in these – I need more blousy tops that I can wear over pencil skirts to try and hide my tummy.

    2. This doesn’t have buttons! Down the front is a pleat/seam, not a placket. I have this shirt and love it. It’s worn like iron– and I just throw it in the washer and dryer with everything else, no special care.

    3. I look terrible in these types of blousy tops. I need something much more fitted.

    4. Thanks for letting me know. I obviously misinterpreted the picture.

      Any suggestions for similar shirts with buttons?

    5. I’m super excited to try this, especially since it doesn’t have buttons. I’m a 36H with nursing right now – do I really want to size down from XL to L per the suggestion?

      1. I don’t have this one but have a similar top from Pleione that runs really large — I’m a 12-14, 36F and got a medium. So I probably would size down.

  7. Any recs on a durable and ideally cheaper alternative to AGL flats? I love how comfortable they are but have been disappointed by how quickly the leather has been peeling off and just generally looking shabby. For reference, I walk 1 mile a day in them, 5 days a week, for about the last 6 months. Maybe I can’t expect them to still look good? But considering they are $300 +, I thought they would last longer. I’m on my third pair and each has had this problem.

    1. I have never had that problem with my AGL flats. I have had mine for years and years and they look brand new. Granted I don’t wear them every single day though.
      1) I always when I buy a new pair get rubber added to the bottom for traction.
      2) Are you walking through wet weather? Winter salt? those could be a factor in the leather peeling
      3) I strongly believe you need to give shoes a rest day between wears. Especially with leather shoes since they absorb sweat they need to dry out.
      4) Are you just wearing them for the commute? Then buy something less expensive! I use mine when I have to look nice all day and do a ton of walking.

    2. A mile a day, 5 days a week is a ton of wear on a single pair of shoes. I think you’re being unrealistic or should switch to sneakers are something for that walk.

      1. I disagree that thats a lot on a pair of shoes. I walk 20,000+ steps a day or about 9 1/2 miles on average. I totally have boots and shoes that can handle that amount of walking. I have worn AGL flats for for that amount of walking for years and had no problem. I just am really careful not to wear them on bad weather days.

        1. What else do you have? And can you describe your feet so I know if they are similar to mine (very high arch / instep)?

          1. I will do a follow up with a post when I get back to London. I am currently traveling and have horrible memory of brand names with my shoes

    3. Honestly, not one that looks as nice (and I’m a very dedicated flat wearer.) Could you get a flat from Clarks or Cobb Hill to wear during your commute and keep the pretty flats at your office?

    4. I really like Ecco flats. I do think you’re expecting a lot for shoes that you wear every day and agree that shoes do need a break to dry out.

      1. Ecco are really nice – they run a little narrow for me (probably like Cole Haan) but they’re really well made.

    5. I think AGL is having some serious quality issues. I have three pairs, bought about 2 years apart. My oldest pair is still awesome and looks nearly new. The middle pair is not as great but OK. The most recent pair–1.5 inch wedges–are in horrible shape after 6 months.

      I just bought some Cob Hill flats and they are mostly comfortable but far more durable than my most recent pair of AGLS.

    6. The cost of an item has no relation to its durability. Any shoe that you wear every day will last you about six months…especially a soft leather. You should alternate shoes and maybe wer something else to walk in. I don’t even drive in my good shoes.

  8. I had an interview yesterday that was kind of weird, and I can’t stop thinking about it. It was the boss of the whole organization, the boss of the division I was applying for, and the second in command of the division. They asked me seriously 2 questions and the rest of the hour was me asking questions and everyone else telling stories.

    2 questions about this — First, when you ask a question in an interview, should you follow up on the answer by saying how you fit what they’re looking for? I did not do that and am questioning myself a little. Second, how do I stop thinking about this?! It’s hard to not let it take over my thoughts and want to talk about it constantly.

    1. Yay! Fruegel Friday’s! I love Fruegel Friday’s and this causal top, and I agree with Kat that you HAVE to wear a cami with this (unless you want men like Frank stareing at your boobie’s– FOOEY!).

      As for the OP, yes, interviewing with the top peeople in a company is always trying, b/c they are a bunch of good old boy’s and this gives THEM the opportunity to get together and put YOU in the hot seat. But at least the company is small enough that you are getting to meet those top people, and then you can determine if YOU want to work with THEM.

      Do NOT fret over it–this happens even in smaller companies and goverment jobs. When I was in DC, this happened to me, and I was onley lookeing to be a GS-9 law clerk. The head guy was told I was cute, and he “dropped in” to see if that was realy true. I think he must have liked me b/c he sat in for the WHOLE interveiw. But in the end, I did NOT even get the job! Myrna think’s it was b/c they did NOT want to have to justify hireing me over some more capable peeople just b/c I was cute.

      I had the manageing partner deliver the case files to me at home yesterday b/c Grandma Leyeh is still bothered from her surgery and did NOT want to have me leave and her stuck with the manageing partner’s brother, who came over to “help”. This way, the manageing partner got to see his brother. YAY!!!

    2. I often find myself derailing the standard interview (they ask questions, i answer). Usually I ask question about the role, the org, potential challenges etc and let them talk about themselves/their org for a while. Then I tie back the reason I asked the question, their response, and why I’m a good fit.

      Example: “Tell me a bit about the team structure- are things more siloed or very collaborative” “oh erm well we are looking to be more collaborative but Dave over in X department is really a one-man show”. “I’m asking because I am very used to making progress with extremely siloed departments. In fact, (example of getting $hit done), and what I found worked best was XYZ”

      Another recently was for a corporate strategy role. I asked about the company’s ability to execute on strategy and the conversation veered in “yeah we are not so good at that part,” which led to a long conversation about my past work executing corporate strategy – not necessarily what they were looking to hire for, but we had a log discussion about how the role I was interviewing for is useless without the ability to execute, which both helped them understand my value *and* gave me an opportunity to really kick the tires on the company. (Fwiw I got an offer but took a different one).

    3. So I’ll say that it depends. Some factors that you may want to consider:
      1) do the interviews have a set list of questions they want to get to? If so, make sure they’re getting through their questions before you ask yours. I usually go in with 5 questions that I’m asking all candidates in order to be able to really compare them. If I don’t get to all 5, it would really set the candidate back.
      2) I don’t think you necessarily need to follow up with how you fit, it really depends on the question and the answer. I think giving context as to why you asked is important in the question and or the follow-up; it may or may not be a part of this.
      3) look at questions as a way to learn more about the organization, not as a way to prove your fit. As an interviewer, I’m much more impressed by thoughtful questions. If someone kept asking questions and following up with their fit, (I.e., asking questions that are really designed to just show fit), I might get annoyed.

      1. This. I don’t have a set question list when I interview. If I know I don’t like the candidate, I am certainly not going to share stories and let them talk a lot. I don’t have time for that. I give them 10 minutes and then close the interview at that point. So that’s a plus. The only interview I did that went like that (took an hour!) we hired the person.

    4. It actually sounds like a really good interview FOR YOU. Even if they weren’t good interviewers, you directed it. Did you get your talking points in? It sounds like you’re not sure. Don’t worry about it. Every single interview is a learning experience, good or bad…

  10. Anyone going to the Boden sample sale in Wilkes-Barre tomorrow? We could have a secret corpor*tte wave, if so!

        1. OH so jealous; you’re near a Boden Outlet and sample place? I really do wish they’d come to the South!!!!! Their store in Lodon was too far to make it reasonable as a tourist in the Kensington and Westminster areas. Poooooh.

        2. Awesome, thanks! I will likely end up hitting the outlet during normal hours. I don’t think my personality is conducive to sample sales!

    2. Have you been to one before? I’ve gone twice and I wouldn’t go again. At least in Boston, it was incredibly crowded and everything got taken within the first 30 minutes. There are definitely some deals to be hand but I ended up buying a few things that I regret, mostly because I was already there and it felt like a “waste” to walk away empty handed.

      With that said, the first time I went I bought a 100% wool dress that I just love, for $30. So you could get lucky.

    3. I wish! I have a work event, but I went to Hershey last year and cleaned up. Not only were the deals great, but it was a super fun experience – lots of women packed into makeshift dressing rooms telling each other how great they looked in the clothes.

  11. I need advice on conflicts. I work for a local agency that sometimes uses a consultant for economic analysis. One of the companies that we regulate would like to use this same consultant for economic work (they were introduced to the consultant through our work). The consultant (individual, not a company) would like to know if it’s ok to take on the work. My boss is concerned that the company might learn confidential information about our agency through the consulting work.

    My options are:
    -Decline to give an opinion and let the consultant determine if he would be conflicted
    -State that it’s a conflict
    -Trust that the consultant will not use our information in their work

    Has anyone run into this situation before?

    1. Not a consultant, but is there not a confidentiality agreement in place in relation to the consultant’s work for your company? If not, can you not put one in place now (rather than rely on trust)? Obviously this is less than ideal as once they give the information out, the horse has bolted and your barn doors are wide open, but it might help (plus professionally the consultant’s rep would be ruined so ct they probably wouldn’t want to breach it). If the consultant refuses, then that might give you an indication that there is a conflict you should be concerned about.

      1. There’s already a confidentiality agreement in place, but there’s still an element of trust that the consultant will not breach the agreement.

        1. That’s a risk you always run though. We have NDAs in place with all of our customers, but I know that certain of our customers have taken drawings and tried to get our product made cheaply elsewhere. Depending on the technology, it’s not always worth it to take the time and money to fight the breach of the NDA.

          I wish I had better advice for you.

    2. Unless you are employing her basically full-time (just as a consultant), I think it would be really crappy to tell her that she can’t do it. She needs to make a living. If this is the potential client that is available, she is entitled to take it (unless there is a real subject matter conflict, which doesn’t sound like it is the case here).

      Fears that she would breach her NDA are not a valid reason to claim a conflict. You either trust her or you don’t. If you don’t, then you should have the same concerns about her complying with the NDA whether she takes this assignment or not.

      1. There’s a subject matter conflict. We would never restrict a consultant just because a fear of breaching confidentiality, which is why I didn’t even address it in my original post. I was looking for advice from people who are familiar with dealing with this issue in small markets where (presumably) there’s a high risk of this sort of conflict.

        1. If it’s a small market, then (presumably) the consultant’s reputation is more at risk because s/he is well-known and knows who will know. So I would lean towards trust (but verify?)

  12. We are thinking of vacationing in Banff/Jasper this summer. Any recommendations on places to stay or avoid? We will have four adults and one child. I’d prefer to rent a condo or house with a view and a kitchen near Banff and a separate similar setup for a few days near Jasper.

    1. Oh wonderful!

      We loved Beckers Chalets in Jasper National Park. 780.852.3779
      beckerschalets (dot com)

      Don’t pass up the Columbia Icefield on the Athabasca Glacier in the Park.

      If your child is 5 years or older, a long side trip to Drumheller in the Badlands will be dinosaur heaven. The Royal Tyrell Museum is the best dino one in the world.

      Have a wonderful time.

      PS Banff is very crowded and riddled with international tourists all the time now. Its often hard to walk the streets where the shops are located. That being said, maple fudge and the Rocks & Gems Canada store is a haven for rock lockers crystal seekers and pretty jewelry. Nonetheless, You may be frustrated by the incessant crowds.

    2. Rent in Canmore instead of Banff (less touristy, lots of restaurants, easy access to Banff). It’s also surrounded by mountains. Haven’t been in Jasper in years so not sure what it’s like now.

    3. Good timing — I’d love to piggyback on your questions, as I was going to ask a similar question. Looking into essentially the same vacation, but with two adults and three kids ages 5-10. If anyone has any little-kid specific recs, I’d appreciate hearing about them. The dinosaur stuff sounds awesome for my dino-obsessed daughter, so thanks for that! TIA!

      1. Yes … at the Dinosaur Provincial Park the guides say, “If you throw your hat and don’t find dino bones underneath it, you don’t know what they look like. ”

        Here’s a little tip. Dino bones have tubes in them just like ours. So if you wet your fingertip and it slightly sticks to the “rock” its a dino bone fossil. My first finding was a joint, about the size of a big apple – it filled up my hand.

        Canmore is wonderful!!!!! There’s an amazing German restaurant there. Somewhere near there (I think) there is a huge antique car museum on the main highway.

  13. I FINALLY got rejected from a job I interviewed for months ago. I had a 1st phone interview back in December, then an in-person interview that I traveled a couple hours for, then a 10 week silent period, then rejection by email. I assumed they had moved on to another candidate, and was actually kind of surprised that they hadn’t just forgotten to follow-up with me. I’m annoyed by the time lag, especially considering that I traveled on pretty short notice to get to the in-person interview. In my reply, can I mention something about the time lag? Like, Thanks for your email, blah blah, I assumed you had moved on to another candidate as several weeks have gone by since I last heard from you… Mostly I want to do this because I’m annoyed that they ignored me for so long and I think it is unprofessional and I want to call them out on it, which I know is a bad reason but I would find it so satisfying. Can I do this?

    1. No. That is a perfectly normal time period and way to handle hiring. You will only validate their decision to reject you and you may get on a do not hire list there.

      1. Really? I’ve been in a few hiring positions and I would never wait 10 weeks to touch base with a candidate we interviewed in person. I’ve sent quick emails before to say, “Thanks for your patience; we’re still in the process and expect to have a decision in the next x weeks.” Over 2-3 months is not a long time to make a decision but it is a long time to have no contact with a candidate. Strikes me as disorganized.

    4. You are right to be annoyed by the rude treatment! Anyone getting an in-person interview deserves a phone call within a couple of weeks, even if it’s to say, “We’ve offered the position to someone else and are waiting to see if the offer’s accepted.” I would also be tempted to send an email like you suggest! Still, burning bridges is usually not a good idea.

    5. Yeah, don’t do this. I got my current job after they were radio silent for FIVE MONTHS after my interview!!! Some companies are so, so slow when it comes to making hiring decisions. Don’t burn the bridge.

    6. But I waaaaaaaant to. Also, the org’s email must be hosted by gmail because the email I received (from the highest ranking person at the org) has a profile photo attached to it when I open it in my gmail account. The profile photo is (presumably) of his kid making a silly face. Normally I would think this was cute, but today I’m like, WHAT IS THAT PROFILE PHOTO BE A PROFESSIONAL. I’m obviously bitter.

      1. Just be glad you didn’t get the job and you’re not having to work at a place like that.

      4. I don’t remember the candidates who don’t write thank you notes or aren’t impressionable.

        But I will never forget coming across an opposing counsel in a case that I had interviewed and rejected. He introduced himself as the person I had “snubbed during law school for a student position” and how I “probably hoped I wouldn’t ever see him again.” I wrote him a week after choosing someone else and was very professional (I had to look it up because I didn’t remember him at all until I did). But now, that guy will forever stand out to me now as a total a$$hat and just makes me feel good about my decision.

        Don’t give those idiots any reason to justify their decision.

    7. It’s a small world. For all you know the recipient of your angry email could a few years down the line end up in a position of power in another organization you wish to work at, or even worse, a client of your employer!! These people are a$$es, however, you should protect your long term interests here.

    8. Eh, I would seriously consider sending an otherwise extremely gracious thank-you email, but include something about “What a pleasant surprise to hear from you after all this time.”

      Whether I would give in to that temptation… ‘nother story.

      1. This is a beautiful wording suggestion. Very satisfying! I heeded the advice and sent something plain and gracious, but this is what I will tell myself I actually wrote.

      2. Please don’t do this. “What a pleasant surprise to hear from you after all this time” is obviously snarky.

        1. Actually, it’s ladylike and firm. Every time I have gone that route, when there is genuine reason to be angry, my response has been respected.

          Also, please remember that interviews go both ways.

    9. Am I the only one who thinks the OP’s posts (especially the second one) come across as super whiny and entitled? Hopefully, this childish attitude isn’t coming across during your job interviews.

      Rejection is hard but you need to handle it professionally, even if you are seething inside. No good can come from sending nasty emails, and you shouldn’t need the internet to tell you this is a stunningly bad idea.

      1. You would be very proud of the email I actually sent. I am the picture of class IRL. I save my whininess for this gracious board. Thanks, all!

    10. Vent your (rightful IMO) bitterness here. Then, send a letter indicating that you appreciate their time and the opportunity. Although you understand you are not right for the position right now, you are still interested if a position comes up in another department and (if it’s possible for you depending on how intense your job search is or you move) that you are available for consulting, part-time, or whatever fits for your industry.

      Grit your teeth while you write it and know that you may never consider another interview but this shows class and professionalism and if it doesn’t work out with the candidate they’d chosen, you can bet your butt I am not going to re-post and start over. I am calling you. Because to me, it sounds like the delay could’ve been a close call or close first choice taking long to negotiate or something. Again, not professional of them but like Tazdevil says, it’s a small world. Maybe someone who isn’t a dumba$$ leaves there and goes somewhere else and remembers you.

    11. One of the best jobs I ever had came about when someone who wasn’t in the mix to interview me for the job I applied for, came across my resume six months later and called me for an opening that he was hiring for. Don’t ever burn bridges…industries are small, people talk, people move around.

  14. Definitely have washed this top and dried it in the dryer without ill effects. YMMV, but it’s a wash and wear top for me.

  15. Anyone have suggestions for cute shoes that fit custom orthotics? I just got some and am really struggling to find shoes that I like. I’m mid twenties and have to dress business formal at work, and outside of work I wear mostly dresses and skirts. I’ve checked out barking dog shoes, but I haven’t seen a single pair of shoes that I would actually consider wearing. Is this a losing battle? Do I just need to suck it up and wear ugly shoes? (I’m not expecting to wear d’orsay flats or anything, or even heels. But I was hoping to be able to find something that doesn’t look like a dansko clog masquerading as a dress shoe.)

    1. Birkenstock’s Footprints line have nicer looking flats that might work. They run a little narrower than the regular Birkenstocks and are made with finer leather and dressier details. They’re quite expensive, I usually try to buy them on sale.

    2. Here’s a secret I learned recently – many shoes fit orthotics. You just have to size up.

      Otherwise, go to a Walking Company store. They have surprisingly not terrible shoes. I’m a fan of ABEO, but they don’t usually have removable footbeds, just really supportive orthotics built in.

      Lots of shoes can and will fit an orthotic footbed, depending on the insert. Just bring them with you when you go shopping, and size the shoe to fit the insert plus your foot. You won’t be able to get pretty, dainty, pointed ballet flats or heels, but there are not-terrible shoes. Ecco, Clarks, Walking Cradles, Trotters, et. (Terrible names, though.)

      https://www.thewalkingcompany.com/dressshoes-womens

      1. I haven’t had luck with sizing up unless it’s a boot (and even then I don’t tend to size up, I just get roomier styles). My feet just slip out. Is there a trick?

        1. Maybe it depends on your foot volume? I’ve had success with loafers, Keds (admittedly not for work), booties, boots, and particularly deep ballet flats. My inserts aren’t super thick, though, and one pair of ballet flats, I actually just ripped out the glued-in footbed to put in my insert. Generally, though, I’m a big fan of ABEO shoes, and the next ballet flats I replace will be those. They have a built-in custom orthotic option for most of their shoes – not cheap, but great quality and also great quality shoes in general.

          1. Any other deep flats you can recommend? I wear pencil skirts to work, and loafers or oxfords with a pencil skirt is not something I think I can pull off. I’m still trying to get used to wearing flats, to be honest.

    3. Yeah, it’s really tough. I have had the most luck with Clarks (though finding a cute pair is an uphill battle). I’ve also had a lot of luck with booties/boots (flat ones), but that doesn’t work for every office/outfit. But I think some Clarks and maybe Eccos (never tried these) have removable soles so you can place your orthotic in instead. Generally, a flat that comes up a bit higher (i.e. no toe cleavage) is what you’re looking for bc the orthotic will push your shoe up higher and you’ll slide out of them more. So things with straps may work, too (but I’m not a fan of that look in general).

    4. I really feel ya on this one. I ended up getting orthotic inserts (they correct my arch but don’t surround my heel) rather than full orthotics because I couldn’t find any shoes that I would be willing to wear for work as a young woman in my 20s. The orthotic inserts fit into my flats and oxfords.

    5. I can wear my dress orthotic with low heeled pumps and shoes that are like modified oxfords but that only tie in one place on the instep. I don’t know what this style is called but it’s cute and much less covered on the top of the foot than a full Oxford style.

      I took some of my Fidji shoes (Amazon and Nordstom sell them) to my podiatrist and she gave them the stamp of approval.

    6. Thanks all, this is super helpful. My orthotics are full soles and fairly thick. Right now they only fit into my running shoes and my Sperry top siders. I may try ripping out the sole of some of my older flats to see if I can frame them in.

  16. When you go to firms’ info sessions followed by a reception/networking event on campus, are you supposed to bring copies of your resume? Or do you just talk to people and ask questions? Sorry, I’m really new at this.

    2. It may depend on your school, but in general no. The information session is for you learn about the company and the company to get to know you. There is a resume drop for applications.

    3. The best idea I’ve seen in action are when people have business cards printed from an online source. They can be simple but provide a way for you to easily pass on contact info and even some basic “resume” info (JD candidate with year, class rank, whatever) on one side with contact info on the other side. Doesn’t hurt to have a copy of your resume in case of a resume drop off but the business card idea is brilliant.

      1. I use business cards printed on my home printer using business card stock that I got at Staples/Office Max/Target for networking.

        Mine just had my name, personal email and cell number. I used a very simple template I found online and had a pen to write any relevant details on the back with.

    4. The best idea I’ve seen in action are when people have business cards printed from an online source. They can be simple but provide a way for you to easily pass on contact info and even some basic “resume” info (JD candidate with year, class rank, whatever) on one side with contact info on the other side. Doesn’t hurt to have a copy of your resume in case of a resume drop off but the business card idea is brilliant.

  17. Thoughts on sheets from Peacock Alley? I need to replace some of ours, and saw them at Tuesday Morning for a good price (~$100/set). I like soft, cotton sateen sheets. I’m currently sleeping on Nordstrom Home sheets, and they’re good (but not great – could be softer/silkier).

    1. Get them!! All our bed linens are Tuesday Morning – so soft, long lasting, hold up to cat claws and dog paws (yes we share our bed with our pets).

  18. FYI, I ordered a pair of the Dr Scholls “really” flat, and I was disappointed to find out when I got them that they are made of plastic. Like, rain boot material, not like fake patent material. I got the navy patent ones.

    1. I am wearing the leather version in black now and I have the nude patent. I like the look and comfort level enough to keep them. Genuinely curious and not being snarky, but for $50 (at DSW), what did you expect for materials?

      1. I expected more like the Payless version of patent, which is more flexible and a little thinner — lighter, I guess? I just really didn’t like the feel of these.

  19. Ladies, I’d like some advice on what to do after being turned down for a job due to a bad (undeservedly) reference.

    I’m a lawyer and lateraled into a top firm in a major city for a one-year contract. The office is really a sub-office of the main office in a nearby city, and seems to have been largely forgotten about and is barely supervised. I say this because the firm is one of the biggest players in the world for my field, and I’m sure it would be appalled if it saw how things were being run in the sub-office. There were three core people who were extremely competitive and liked playing the rest of their colleagues off against each other. I was sometimes treated horribly by them, just like everyone else. Morale was low. As evidence that it’s not just me saying this, of the twenty people in my department when I joined three years ago, seventeen have left.

    Needless to say, I was delighted when my contract expired and I went back to school for a couple of years to do a related course (not uncommon in my field). I am now looking for a new job. Last week, I was a firm’s final choice, but when they got a bad reference from one of the awful people in my old firm they decided not to hire me. I am now terrified that this will keep happening and I will never be able to work in my current field again.

    Any advice?

    1. How did you give your references? Did they just call people you gave them, or did they go off on their own and call past companies?

      Moreover, are you sure it was due to one bad reference? Most employers will understand if they do their own calling of references you didn’t provide that there may be one bad apple who is just dysfunctional and resentful. But if there are multiple red flags, they’ll pass.

      There are reference checking companies, but perhaps you can have a friend calls your references and see what they say. That will help you think of how exactly to handle.

    2. There are companies out there who will check your references. Invest in this service.

    3. Can you identify one person at that firm who would be giving you an undeniably positive reference and ask him/her to serve as your reference? It doesn’t have to be the person who was your main partner, supervisor, etc. It can also be one of the people who is no longer there (companies know that people leave firms all the time). If you can come up with a list of 3 positive references and provide their phone numbers, I don’t know why a new employer would try to go around that and call random people from your previous firm.

    4. When the subject of references come up, say something like, “I took this job because (list good stuff), and I learned (list good stuff). However, the office culture was tough. Of the twenty people who were there when I started, only three remain. It was a contract job, so I saw it through to the end, and (talk about great stuff that some of your fellow employees did, and if you enjoyed any of their company, still get together, etc.). I have the following references for this job (list references, which may or may not be the standard ones).”

      A lot of people have had really bad workplace situations. Companies will understand, but they need to know that it’s not a “you” problem, and that you are a generally positive person. They also need to talk to references from your jobs, but if you provide a standard manager reference for each job but this one, and provide references from other (preferably at least two or three) from the bad job, you’re showing (not telling) that it’s a one-off thing.

      1. It definitely was just the bad reference. I have a friend at the firm who spoke to the hiring partner, and they said they would have hired me but for the bad reference. They had stopped the hiring process for everyone else, so they don’t even have a reserve candidate.

        Thanks all for your advice! I will try the reference checking service, and steering future employers towards better referees. And find a good way to explain what happened.

  20. I’m going to SE Asia for 6 weeks this summer (yay, graduation!) and I’m not sure what kind of shoes to bring. What would you pack if you were planning on quite a lot of all day sight seeing?

    1. Sandals or maybe breathable, low profile sneakers that are comfortable to walk in. Keep in mind that you will have to take your shoes off to enter some religious sites. When I lived in Thailand, everyone wore flip flops – not great if you’re walking around all day, but it’s good to have a pair. You can get cheap ones there if you have small feet.

  21. I have a few pendant necklaces where the chain is so twisted, even spending significant time trying to untwist it myself hasn’t worked. Can I take them to a jeweler for help, or do I have to keep plugging away myself?

    2. I’ve used oil or other lubricants before on some pieces and it helped a lot. Never with any really nice pieces, but on costume/whatever the kids call it these days/fashion jewelry it works well.

  22. Okay what is the deal with banks asking for three security questions but all of them being about engagements, spouses, wedding party people, anniversaries, and kids! You see I am not married from my info! I have literally three options that are not marriage related. And those are my first pet (I don’t even remember), my favorite teacher (I don’t have one that stands out so I’ll probably forget) and my mother’s maiden name (because that’s so secure). This is not the first time this has happened where I have no questions that apply to me. I am going to make up a fake maid of honor but that makes me feel completely crazy!

    1. I feel you!

      If it’s any comfort, I think the conventional wisdom is it’s best to make up fake answers to those questions anyway because it’s more secure that way.

    2. My husband’s solution to security questions is to use a random answer for everything. so no matter what the question is, the answer is “scissors” or something like that. Probably better/more secure to have a few that you cycle through, but not too many that you can’t try all of them without locking yourself out of the account.

    3. I actually recall reading somewhere that making up fake answers that only you are likely to know is the most security-conscious way to handle these questions. Like, your first pet was “Xena Warrior Princess” or your mother’s maiden name is “Darth Vader,” etc. So your fake maid of honor is smart, not crazy. :-)

    4. My favorite are the ones that ask me where my vacation home is located. As if that’s a thing most people have.

    5. I went on a rant about this in real life a couple months ago. It is literally single-shaming. No other way to put it.

  23. I’m having a couple of people over for dinner tonight and I thought we’d grill on the patio because the weather is so nice. Normally I’d just throw a few steaks on the grill but I thought I might try something a little fancier but still easy. Any ideas?

    1. Kebobs? Veggies, shrimp, fruit, not all on the same skewer though! Portabellas?

    2. Make a chimichuri for the steaks. Grill slices of poundcake, pineapple, and peaches, and serve with vanilla ice cream.

      1. Also, soak the pineapple in tequila before grilling. Reserve the pineapple/tequila juices to drizzle on top of the ice cream and pound cake.

    3. It’s not fancier, but one of my standards is chicken drumsticks with olive oil, lemon zest, thyme, salt, and pepper on the grill. They are delicious and easy.

    4. Second on kebobs! They can even make their own :)

      Or, stick with steak but also make a fun app? Try jalapenos, gutted and cut down the middle filled with cheese and then wrap in bacon and stick a toothpick or two in it. They burn so you have to remember to take them out. But by then the bacon holds it together. I am hungry…

    6. My grilling for company favorites are:

      Hangar steak cooked whole then sliced on the bias, served with grilled asparagus and sliced tomatoes, and maybe some good crusty bread slices brushed with olive oil and grilled.

      Spatchcocked whole chicken grilled over indirect heat, skin side down for first half, skin side up for second half, squeezing citrus (Orange is good but lemon, lime or grapefruit work too) over it every 15 minutes or so. Served with potatoes cut up and tossed with olive oil and salt/pepper/herbs, cooked on oiled foil on the direct heat side of the grill. I usually have a salad with this.

      Spice rubbed pork tenderloins, sliced and served with similar to steak.

        1. I definitely have been wanting to try the spatchcock chicken but I feel like it’s a little more involved than I want to get for tonight. Soon, though!

    7. I love grilled avocado as an accompaniment to whatever grilled meat you’re making. Just slice in halves, remove the pit, brush with oil and sprinkle liberally with sea salt, and put the meat side down on the grill. Get some nice black grill marks on there then remove. Yum.

    8. Hi Senior Attorney…sorry to threadjack your post, but hope you see this!

      A couple months ago you responded to a post of mine about my boyfriend saying our relationship reminded you of you/your ex-husband, and you mentioned that the final straw was having an argument over whether you had to deserve it in order for him to be kind to you (or something similar).

      Well…last month I asked, in response to something he said, whether he felt the desire to be kinder to me than to a random person on the street…AND HE SAID NO. That was the last straw for me, too, and we broke up.

      Anyway, just wanted to share, as it felt almost hilariously similar to what you described. I’m still desperately sad about it, but I felt like I had to do it.

      Enjoy your grilling! :)

  24. You guys I just realized that I no longer have those “I have nothing to wear” moments.

    It is mostly because I started reading sites like this one. I gained some weight and needed a new size, so I decided to limit my base pieces (for me, skirts and tops) to three neutrals – black, gray and navy – and only add color through the third piece – cardigans or jackets – or accessories like scarves. I did the same with my weekend/ casual look but included more pants and jeans.

    So now, if I have a work occasion, a speaking engagement, a social get together, a date night, I have something to wear. I can get dressed or pack for a trip very quickly.

    Thanks to all of you. This is big for me and it is such a relief. I have a smaller closet and more to wear.

    1. I did the same thing for my work wardrobe prior to a big move and it has made gretting dressed significantly easier. I don’t even miss the brown, beige, etc.

    2. I’m on the road to this place, and am so happy to hear from someone who’s pulled it off!

      My biggest realization was I just needed to get rid of the clothes I’d had for years and didn’t like. So when I open by wardrobe, I donn’t see 100 items of clothing, 90 of which I dread wearing = I have nothing to wear. I could just open it and see ten items I loved = 100% satisfaction!

    3. I should add that one of the keys to making it work was also limiting shapes. I only really wear pencil skirts now. It’s the best shape for me. Just getting rid of the full and a-line skirts I never felt good in took a lot of the psychological burden out of looking at my closet (as you are saying, Red Velvet)

      I ended up with too many colors and shapes because of my clearance rack and outlet shopping habits. I had to curb that and be willing to spend more on fewer items to get the just-right pieces. It was a change in mindset for bargain-hunting me, but really, it’s not a bargain if you never wear it!

      1. “It’s not a bargain if you never wear it!”

        This is so obviously true, but a great piece of advice we’re probably all guilty of forgetting sometimes!

  25. I’m an ethnic, racial, and religious minority who is job searching. I read the following article today about minorities “whitening” their resumes and increasing their chances for call backs: http://www.thestar.com/news/immigration/2016/03/17/jobseekers-resort-to-resum-whitening-to-get-a-foot-in-the-door-study-shows.html.

    As depressing as this is, I’m thinking of how I can whiten my name without it coming off as disingenuous. Anyone have any experience with this? Do you just pick the closest Anglican-sounding name? If both first and last name indicate a minority status, is it even worth changing the first name?

    1. I don’t have experience doing this but I can tell you from experience, firms seek out minorities in my field. Before you do any whitening, check the website for a dedication to hiring minorities statement or article. If everyone listed on the firm is a white man with a few women speckled in, then maybe try it.

      As an aside, this country sucks sometimes. I just want someone who will do the job. I still don’t understand why the rest matters ugh.

      1. The rest matters because of subconscious (most of the time) notions that people have about what the best candidate for the job is. It’s annoying, and it’s so insidious that it’s hard to fix. I seriously wish the problem were more overt, like “I think X people are lazy and not as good employees” because you can disprove that with logic and observed data. It’s a lot harder when everyone genuinely thinks they’re looking ONLY at a candidate’s ability but other things like race and gender subconsciously impact that.

      2. The issue is unconscious bias though. I don’t think anyone (certainly, hardly anyone) looks at a resume and thinks “Oh this person must be Hispanic [or whatever], we don’t want them.” If anything more people probably have the opposite reaction of actively wanting to recruit minorities. The problem is that the minority name leads to an unconscious presumption that the person is less qualified than a similar white male name. There are lots of studies that when the identical resume was submitted as John Smith and Juan Alvarez, way more people thought John Smith was a qualified candidate. Same thing with John Smith and Jill Smith. Conscious or unconscious, it’s a huge problem, even at places that “want minorities.”

        1. BUT, BUT when you make your resume more vanilla, you just go into a really fungible mass of people where I don’t think your odds improve unless they take *everyone*.

          Assuming that the first pass at a large mass of applicants is always done by a robot (so form will be ultra-important), the next pass will be by a person. Then you might be the 1 pre-screened minority person and there are 20 pre-screened non-minority people. I’d still put my money on you getting more attention than any of the 20. And probably two people to ding you (vs one ding for the fungible pool).

          I think you’ve got to stand out somehow to get away from the pack. If you’re parents gave you a difficult to spell / pronouce first name, I think the US already gives non-English first named people a pass for adopting an anglicized name or version of that name (Wendi Deng Murdoch comes to mind — her real name seems to be Wengi). But don’t overdo it — we ARE looking at you and want to find you. The good people who want to give people a chance.

          1. I get the rationale, but unfortunately, the stats bear out the OP’s concern. My firm is very explicit in considering candidate diversity (along all metrics, not just race, ethnicity, and religion), and I do hiring for us, so I know that does result in a situation where highly qualified candidates with a background that is different than our majority population are highly valued, but that’s not what stats show about hiring as a whole

        2. A slightly different example: We recently hired an Vietnamese candidate. The partner whose group he was hired for expressly said he gave the candidate points because he expected him to be hardworking and brilliant “because he’s Asian.” So the new hire comes in with much higher expectations on him than a white male candidate, and is now regarded as a bad hire and partner is constantly annoyed with him. He is perfectly competent and IMO turns out the same work quality as the other associates in this practice group. He’s just not the 2500 hour billing robot the partner was expecting due to stereotypes and bias. It’s disgusting, but was not entirely shocking given that this partner also says that working mothers should not be a thing and maternity leave is a waste of money to pay out.

    2. IDK, but I know a ton of older white women in the SEUS named Juanita who are in the DAR.

      FWIW, we are so on orders to hire people from all backgrounds that I would not hide who you are. I’d have the most polished resume you can, line up stellar references, network, mention contacts, have allies to go bat for you, etc.

      I promise that someone is looking for the real you. Looking very hard! Please don’t hide!

      1. This. My SIL lives in Houston and has *the most* “Mexican” sounding name. She is like 10th generation American with ancestors from Ireland and a slide from Germany, and looks like Barbara bush. Her mom, who grew up with a lot of people that immigrated from Mexico, picked a name she liked- which was very common in Mexico.

        People try to speak Spanish to her all the time over the phone, and are constantly surprised when she goes to pick up an order and they put the name to the face.

    3. It might be a regional thing, but in the Northeast your name would have very little impact on your callback status. I will say that I had someone put the pronunciation of their name on their cover letter and appreciated that.

      I’ll tell you that in doing hiring, I’ve met people with names that sound stereotypically one ethnicity/background or another and have ended up being totally opposite.

      1. This is completely untrue. In the Northeast your name MAY have an impact on your callback status. Implicit bias and conscious/subconscious racism is not limited to a specific region or state.

        OP, it’s completely up to you if you choose to “whiten” your name. It shouldn’t make a difference, but the reality is that it still does in some cases. You could use your middle name or a shortened version of your name (e.g. Ali for Aaliyah)

      2. Yeah, you are absolutely kidding yourself if you think there is no unconscious bias in the Northeast. It’s not limited to any one specific place. It’s universal.

        1. But once you whiten, are you just playing an odds game in a fungible pool? I think it would be a + much more than it would be a minus.

          And if people are biased and you slip through the first cut, you’ll be shut out anyway but if you whiten when people are looking for you, you’ll be missed by them.

          Like if people are looking for veterans (even though some people have an anti-military bias), I’d always check the box and list that on my resume. I might leave off my (hypothetical) NRA membership unless I’m applying to the NRA. And I’d put on my Spanish language skills.

          Didn’t Loretta Sanchez keep her maiden name in part to avoid becoming something like Loretta (non-obviously hispanic lastname)?

          1. I do not believe for a second that being a minority is normally an advantage in hunting for a job in a traditionally white, male profession. I get that you stand out more if you’re not white, but being one of 20 fungible white people who are all presumed to be well-qualified is better than being a minority that people have a (subconscious) impression is less qualified. There are lots of studies that support the fact that being a minority hurts much more than it helps in trying to get your foot in the door in white collar professions.

            I have no idea why Loretta Sanchez kept her maiden name, but there are lots of reasons why someone might want to do that that have nothing to do with thinking it’s an advantage in hiring. I also think a very visible role like Congresswoman is a bit different than applying for a normal job, because you’re trying to connect with a large group of people, many of whom share your ethnicity, rather than just trying to be chosen by a small group of people who are likely mostly white and male.

    4. I know a lot of people who shorten their names to make them more pronounceable. (Like, Padmanabhan Srikanth “Sri” Srinivasan).

    5. My fiancé anglicizes his name sometimes, which is relatively easy because he’s Hispanic so there are a lot of close matches. It creeps me out a bit, but I understand why he does it – it just makes me so mad that we still live in a world where “passing” for a particular ethnicity has advantages.

      He usually just does it for insignificant things like booking a restaurant because he can’t be bothered to spell his name / explain pronunciation for someone he’ll only meet once. Changing your name on your resume would be a much bigger step. Check you’d feel comfortable with everyone you spend your working day with calling you that name for the rest of your professional life. Or at least remember to respond to it!

      1. OP here. Thanks for the responses everyone. Red Velvet, you make a good point. I can’t figure out a reasonable way to walk back the name if I was hired for a job and I’m perfectly fine with my name otherwise. Also, my last name, which I can’t change, is just as much of an identifier of my heritage, actually a little more so. My first name is already short so I can’t shorten it anymore. The more I think about this, I realize it’s just not going to be feasible. I wouldn’t have normally considered this and have never felt the need to do it before although I’ve been in the working word for many many years, but my name is a Muslim one and the current political climate is what made me think about doing it.

      2. I don’t see occasional fibbing about your name as a big deal (I realize that’s not what the OP is talking about). Hubs and I both make up names for ourselves at restaurants/Starbucks because even though our names are relatively common, the poor harried waitstaff can’t freakin HEAR me half the time. It’s just easier to say Sarah than “My name is Reese like Witherspoon not Grease like the movie.”

        Sort of tangential to this though: my last name is considered ethnic, but I’m white. What am I supposed to do? Not currently job seeking but just curious. If it’s just the name and I have no other obvious affiliations on my resume, is that enough for someone to pass me over?

    6. I am a recent graduate and have thought about making my name more Anglo and Christian friendly. I am also a racial and religious minority and do wonder if it hinders my chances. I think people are naive if they think the bias doesn’t exist. I would hate that my scary Muslim name would get in the way of getting a foot in the door, but I also need to get that foot in the door.

      1. I was surprised that (after living in Asia) that many people here with Muslim names are black. So the bias may be of two sorts. [Or if it looks SE Asian, there are those stereotypes, too.]

        FWIW, a lot of Muslim first names for girls are pretty common in the broader population: Jamilla, Farrah, Aisha, etc.

        1. Is your name obviously female?

          To the extent you’re worried about your name being obviously Muslim, I’d think it is probably much worse for names that sound male or are obviously men’s name. Sadly.

          1. My name is obviously female- which does help. But the name is not common the US But, I still feel othered because of my surname specifically points to my religion. I love my name and heritage, but hate that it could be holding me back professionally. Nothing I can specifically point to, but definitely something I worry about.

      3. I am Middle-Eastern as well. My name is long and very difficult to pronounce, and even people who speak Farsi have a hard time with it in its Romanized version. I am sure that my name/gender/ethnicity/perceived religion (I am not Muslim, but some people assume I am) have impacted my job applications in the past. I used to use an “English” name for my first name, but I gave up on that because it didn’t feel like me. My name is part of my identity, and I am really tied deeply to my culture. Using another name or otherwise “whitening” my credentials feels like I am somehow apologizing for who I am. I don’t want to work somewhere where that is necessary.

  26. OP here. Thanks for the responses everyone. Red Velvet, you make a good point. I can’t figure out a reasonable way to walk back the name if I was hired for a job and I’m perfectly fine with my name otherwise. Also, my last name, which I can’t change, is just as much of an identifier of my heritage, actually a little more so. My first name is already short so I can’t shorten it anymore. The more I think about this, I realize it’s just not going to be feasible. I wouldn’t have normally considered this and have never felt the need to do it before although I’ve been in the working word for many many years, but my name is a Muslim one and the current political climate is what made me think about doing it.

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