Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Pocket Popover Shirt

261 Comments

1. Yay Frugel Friday’s! I love Frugel Friday’s and this J. Crew popover shirt for a very reasonable price! Great pick for us! I like it particularly b/c of the lines which makes me look like a puzzle. I do worry that Frank will investigate the contrasting pocket (and my boobie), so may choose NOT to wear this @ work.

   Does anyone in the HIVE know where there will be a Superbowl party in NYC where truly eligible men will be there? I do NOT want to go to 1st Avenue bars any more b/c I am way to old for that and do NOT want to have to find black and blue marks on my torso and tuchus after coming home from hours of getting pinched and squeezed by drunken slobs who pretend that they were college hero’s on the football field.

   I am lookeing for relatively sober investment bankers who will NOT take liberties with women just b/c we are at a Superbowl parties, and keep their hands and fingers to themselves, unless of course WE choose to invite them to do so LATER (NOT in a bar — FOOEY!)

   Also, I was wondering if anyone in the HIVE has a Microsoft Powerpoint presentation on some new FEDERAL HIPPA regulations, b/c the manageing partner is doeing a CLE in February on the need for insurance companies takeing in WC information that includes HEALTH records to comply with HIPPA. I do NOT know anything about FEDERAL regulations b/c as a NY litigator, I do NOT need to.

   If any of you can point me to a good powerpoint, I can make the necessary changes to it for the manageing partner and he can present it to the bar association for CLE credit. I can also get you CLE credit for the presentation (3 credits), if you give me your name, email address and CLE information. YAY for the HIVE! Because together as a group we are so much more powerful then we are seperately. YAY!!!!!

   Anyway, thank’s in advance to the HIVE and for being there when I need you! YAY!!!

2. How long do you think it will be until working life is revolutionalized for the majority? Right now, there are a minority of people who work remotely or from home. When do you think we will move away from “butt in seat” office culture for the masses. Or will we ever get there?

   I’m hopeful that my profession is conducive to remote work with the exception of meeting times (obviously some is not, like teaching, or working in a lab, etc.). Why haven’t employers of people like me already given employees the right to work more independently? They would save money on physical office space and benefit from more positive employee engagement and work life balance. Thoughts?

   1. I hope that remote work never becomes the default. I’ve tried it, and it was just not feasible for me. I was expected to respond instantaneously to all e-mails in order to prove that I was actually working, which made it impossible to concentrate on writing or any other task requiring sustained focus. I couldn’t step away from the keyboard to use the bathroom or eat lunch without getting angry e-mails and phone calls demanding “Are you working?.” It was miserable and incredibly isolating.

      1. Yea, I hate working from home. I like office camaraderie and being able to bounce ideas off of people face-to-face/easily. I want my home to be my home space and my office to be my work space. I also don’t have the discipline to WFH.

         1. +1. I like coming into work, because that means its easier to leave work at work when I go home. I like talking with people face to face – i think it build better work relationships (at least builds them more quickly). The tools to work from home feel like a barrier to do some of that work.

            I also don’t have the discipline to work from home. There’s always home stuff to distract me from work stuff.

         2. I also don’t have the discipline. My fridge is the biggest distraction.

   2. Many jobs benefit from face to face meetings and interactions.
      Many junior employees benefit from informal interactions with senior colleagues, like stopping by to discuss an issue. This can sometimes be easier in person when you can see if they are on the phone and come back later vs. leaving them a message and hoping them answer.
      Many employees want a clear line between office and home. Work smart phones already make this challenging. Working from home can make that even more challenging.
      Working from home may not be practical for those with smaller living spaces who do not have space for a home office or with family situations (elder care for someone with dementia, child home with a nanny) where being present in the house and not able to attention to the family member’s needs can be challenging.

      I could work from home at least 2 days a week and I don’t chose to. For me it would worsen my work-life balance. I don’t know anyone looking for this to improve their work-life balance. Discussions on work-life balance center on wanting to be ‘off’ outside of work hours and wanting to be able to work a less than full time schedule – e.g. 60% or 80%.

      1. It certainly improves work life balance in incredibly expensive metro areas where people are commuting 1.5 hours each way or more to work.

         1. Right, but then people expect you to be available longer b/c you aren’t commuting. The hard stop never happens.

            Also: if you have kids, you often can’t get work done with them around. They talk. They may not be young enough to go outside unattended. You have to cook for them. Our kids school gets out at 2:30 and even with a nanny, I will be an office worker in the hours they are home. Our house is too small for me to hide in and no one will pay for me to rent a larger one.

            1. I have a 90 minute commute (65 minutes on good days) and I stop at the same time every day whether I WFH or go to the office. You only work longer if you let it happen.

   3. Because no one believes people actually work at home and lots of employers see value is actually seeing and interacting with their employees.

      1. I agree.

   4. IDK — a lot of jobs you don’t self-train for. You learn from people with more experience and good leaders also actively train people. I don’t think that happens well remotely even with the best leader except when it is very very intentional both ways. It helps, too, to see good workers to model what they do (not just in dial-in meetings). As Yogi Bera says, you can observe a lot by watching :)

      But I’m in BigLaw, so my team works remotely every evening when we’re busy (or some are in-office and others not) and weekend. But I think it truly helps junior not to be just WFH. If you are relatively senior and move somewhere, I see WFH as a way to keep from losing those people. So I see it as the exception, and not the rule, but a good exception to have.

      1. This is where I fall. I understand OP’s position, but as a lawyer, in a junior era of my career, I THRIVE by interacting with my partners/more senior coworkers, receiving work from them face to face, having in-person conversations, bouncing ideas off of them. Even if it’s not my case, but I’m overhearing their conversations and I see the work they do, I learn from that.
         But again I think some is the nature of law and stages in a career. It’s no surprise that law school teaches you nothing about how to be an associate lawyer. Physically going to your job is basically our lawyer-apprenticeship.

         I understand the allure of WFH, but it just doesn’t apply to me. And truthfully, there’s a brand-new-baby-attorney in our office who has already WFH’ed more than me in the last 3 months – and I look down on him! Not because I think he’s lazy, but because I think he’s missing out on valuable interactions and tapping into the resources we have in the office. Law firms were organized to be teams. If everyone worked from home, we’d essentially be solo practitioners.

         1. Also relationship building is extremely important in law firms. Hard to do if you’re rarely if/ever there.

            1. Not everyone is a lawyer.

            2. Did I say that? Reading comprehension, please.

            3. True but as an accountant all of this rang true. I think it applies in more roles than not – junior employees learn a lot just by being near senior employees.

   5. Well, there’s a reason your employer hasn’t done this. What do you think it is — or what have they told you when you’ve asked?

      I wouldn’t assume that working remotely is the default, best future for all workplaces. I’ve done it — for 3 years — and it’s not for me.

   6. I’m sure this depends on the industry. It’ll happen when so many other employers offer wfh that employers who don’t will lose good talent/not be able to hire talent. For the masses though? I think this will be generational. I don’t think the boomers are going to give up on facetime. You’ll see some movement on this when more Gen Xers and millennials come into upper management.

      Personally, I’m an old millennial in biglaw and I have mixed feelings about wfh. I prefer to do a lot of my own work from home, especially drafting, but I prefer for subordinates to be in the office for things like filings. I know a lot of people let their staff file from home but I’ve had too many bad experiences with paralegals dropping the ball on filing day. (Fwiw the flip side of that is I don’t allow edits past 3 pm on filing day, so I’m not asking people to stay til stupid o’clock.) If associates are doing research or drafting for me, then I generally don’t care where they are as long as they get it to me on time and they can come to the office to discuss the draft/my edits. But if they blow a deadline or bill a crazy number of hours to my client then I’m not going to accept – ohhh I’m spending the next 3 weeks at my parents’ beach house but I can totally do this while I’m there. Nope you’re not going out of town sorry, you lost that privilege the last time you wfh and billed 10 hours for an hours’ worth of research.

   7. This is a really interesting question. I think the reason some employers haven’t done it is that the most senior people in many organisations are still of a generation where working from home just wasn’t done (because they didn’t have the technology we do now) – it’s a big culture shift away from presenteeism and requires good managers who can look at outcomes.

      On a wider scale, I think in the coming years people will start moving out of cities. We’re starting to see that in London already; it’s so expensive, especially to raise kids, that people in their thirties who should be in prime career time are leaving for smaller cities with cheaper housing and living costs and better quality of life. Either companies will have to pay much, much better to attract the best talent (as well as paying high costs to keep them in office space) or they will have to be much more accepting of flexible working patterns including majority remote (and realise they can offload the costs of the workspace onto the employee). I’m not sure this will ever apply to the majority though. Obviously this board lends itself to desk-based knowledge kinds of jobs which can be done from home but when I look around at friends and family that’s still relatively rare.

      1. Or we see this in outlying parts of cities — lower cost real estate and companies take office space there for some groups — look at how many firms have offices in DC but then have some operations out in Fair Oaks or Rockville or somewhere else. [Same with some operations moving outside of NYC or LA (I have one client that is in Pasadena now and we fly in/out of Ontario and I always have to tell people I’m not going to Canada).]

         In my SEUS city, you can get pricey Class A office space in the heart of downtown or go about 20 miles out to an office park and put some people there. Then, though, if your group relocates and you bought a house planning on a to-downtown commute where you can walk to lunch spots (and maybe commute by bike or walk on nice days) and then you have to drive 20 miles and also drive to lunch or pack a lunch, those people are NOT happy.

         So some jobs move out to where workers may live (esp. if they are older — kids and in their 30s/40s and already live further out), but they don’t go to an exclusive WFH model.

         1. This. The trend in my area has also moved away from WFH and instead moving the office space outside the downtown core to an office park mid way to the suburbs.

            1. E.g., Roseland, NJ

               I doubt anyone ever said “I want to work in an office park in Roseland” as a kid, but I got it when I the car->NJ Transit train –> PATH –> walking commute.

         2. If you’re flying to meet a client in Pasadena, go to Burbank! Closer, less traffic, less hassle at the airport. It’s a great airport!

   8. Come to the west coast – flexibility is part of the culture. Personally, I go in a few times a week for meetings and we cluster face to face time (ues, it is important) but then work wherever the rest of the time. People get their work done, and it’s nice to not fight commutes and work productively.

      1. Depends on the industry. I am a California native and have always worked in the Bay Area. But I’m in finance and it’s a butt-in-seat culture.

         1. Same here, down to CA, finance, and butt-in-seat

      2. I live on west coast and work in tech. Work from home a few days a week. Has cut weekly commute by many hours as wells cut my monthly gas bill. I make sure when I am in the office to spend time with colleagues on my project. When I am at home, I am able to focus on things that require full attention. It’s a good balance for me. I don’t think some of the older people in the office respect WFH, but as I think someone mentioned, there’s a generational difference in what “work” means and where it “must” occur in order to be considered “work.” Luckily, the key people in my office don’t share this belief. It also helps that majority of my team is distributed across US and India.

         I do tend to snack more when I am WFH. The one and only downside.

   9. I think certain professions might continue to expand options for working remotely, but I don’t think we’ll ever fully get there and personally I don’t see that as a desirable goal. I feel like working life needs a lot of revolutionizing in our culture but I don’t think that work from home/remote is the holy grail of that revolution.

      -many jobs simply can’t be done as well or at all remotely
      -you, and likely the vast majority of women who post here, are engaged and productive when working from home, but many employees are not and management is afraid of that. All employees need to be treated equally….. you see where this leads.
      -if an employee is not remote almost all the time, office space is still needed.
      -not everyone likes working from home. I love having the option but honestly it’s difficult for me to fully perform at home. Part of that is distraction and part of it is not having the resources I need- space to spread out, hard copy files, easy access to our firm’s document management system (unless IT wants to provide me with dual monitors and seamless remote access which so far it cannot/does not), access to my colleagues. Some tasks are easy to do from home, many are not. I’m a lawyer and even though the majority of what I do is working in my office alone on the computer/with documents, I often need to provide wet signatures, talk with staff, talk with partners, all of which is much more difficult when I’m at home.

   10. My team is pretty flexible about allowing remote work, but I don’t think that having to be in the office is the major problem in the American work culture. Mine concern is just Americans work too much and are expected to be constantly available thanks to the smartphones. I think it’s pathetic we’re the only developed nation without mandatory paid vacation (and paid maternity leave), and I think ultimately it’s bad for productivity/mental health.

   11. It seems to me that a lot of WFH entry-level jobs are ones that are pretty dead-end (medical billing people, transcribers, etc.). Anything that I’ve seen as a 6-figure WFH job is for a person who didn’t start as WFH and has significant in-office experience going back decades (paralegals who do esoteric filings, attorneys, etc.).

       1. Anonymous at 9:46, that is me.

   12. My employer, a multinational insurer. has seen the light. Many of us work remotely. I am one of them, and I wouldn’t trade it for the world. I have to travel or go to meetings maybe once or twice a month, but usually it is me in my yoga pants. I DO work hard, full-time plus, but I am here when my kids get home from school and that is priceless to me after years of commuting into the city. I think it would become very apparent very fast if any of us weren’t doing our jobs at home. All that said, I think the long hours I spent in the office as an associate at a midsized firm were invaluable. I learned so much just from overhearing conversations in the hall and being able to stroll into other lawyers’ offices to bounce around ideas. I do miss that sort of collegiality. My Skype window with my team members is always open, and we communicate a LOT.

       1. How do you handle your day? When my kids get home from school, they really need an adult who is good at math to help them with their math. I’m talking grade school math, not calculus, and that person has to be me. I basically can’t work if I’m home from when their school gets out past dinner (b/c dinner won’t cook itself) so do you just spread your work out over a longer window? I have done that for decades, but I feel that I am just so tired when I start working again so late and the best energy of my day has passed.

          So looking for a nanny who is good at math b/c I need to move to getting my work done in the morning and afternoon and not taking off 4 hours (3-7) every day.

          1. Anon at 10:13, my kids are older, so they don’t need a lot of hands-on help. I am home from dropoff by 8:15 or so. I work straight through until school pickup, then sit down to work again while the kids do their homework.
             I couldn’t help with math even if I wanted to! I will generally start dinner and then work until it’s ready, 6:30 ish. I don’t do a lot at night but will often do a stretch on a weekend morning or afternoon. Again, older kids, different ball game.

       2. I don’t understand how you can work full time plus and still be available to your kids at 3pm when school gets out. Doesn’t that mean working a lot of nights and weekends or very early mornings?

          1. I am available in that I am here, but I am working while they do their homework, or they’re at sports practice until later. I have teens, not little ones. I am not mother of the year doing enriching educational activities when they get home from school, but I just really like that they’re not coming home to an empty house.

          2. We used to have a staff attorney who would work from 7-3 so she could be home with her kids after school. I think her husband handled school drop off in the morning. So that’s one advantage of flexible hours, I suppose.

          3. You 100% need full time childcare even if you work from home. I am astounded by the amount of people that think you can balance being a mom & being a ft worker and do both well– they either don’t value how much work being a parent is or how much work work is. If you wfh you use the same childcare methods you’d use as if you worked in an office (those of you saying your kids need help with math– how are they getting help now? You keep using that method even if you wfh). I have a 3yo and do stop working from when she comes home to when she goes to bed from 5-7, and then if more works needs to be done, I do more work after she’s in bed. WFH though does cut out the 2-3 hrs of commute I’d have to do and leaves me less tired during the day/ with more flexibility if I do need to move things around.

             1. This.

             2. I agree — I get no work done with kids and have split my workday 8:30-4 and then their bedtime (currently 8)-whenever. It was do-able when they went to bed as babies around 6, but this split shift is just killing me. I’m the one looking for a nanny.

             3. This really really depends on the kid. Our elementary school is two blocks away and it takes me <30 minutes to pick up my 6 yo daughter, have a brief chat about her day and fix her a snack. Then she plays independently while I work. I’m aware that not all kids can do that, but mine can and I generally do put in 8 hours even with a kid at home for 2+ hours.

                I’d also add that many employers are shifting more towards a focus on productivity vs a strict 40 hour week. I’m the most productive person in my office (in part because I don’t hesitate to work on something time-sensitive on evenings or weekends, which my co-workers don’t), so I feel no guilt if sometimes my official workday is 7 hours instead of 8. My boss has made it clear to me (both verbally and with raises, etc) that I’m the most valuable member of his team and that’s what matters.

             4. My teenager is more self-sufficient and much less disruptive than many of my coworkers.

             5. True re teens (and if are home, you know what they are up to; bigger kids can have bigger problems).

                But mine are 8 and 10 and while they are easy, I’m finding myself having to be their primary math teach (public schools are good but weak in this; I also tutor math), which is hard with your own kid (we are so not ever homeschooling . . .). The love to talk. They love to be around you. They are joys, but not conducive to getting work done!

             6. A three year old is entirely different from an 8 year old or a 12 year old, who can fix his own snack and do his own homework and reading, and you just need to make sure they’re not, like, trying to ride their bikes off the roof or something.

             7. This is true if your child is under, say, 10.
                My child is 12. He can feed himself, dress himself, take himself to the bathroom, and also do cool fun bonus things like take the dogs for a walk, feed the dogs, do his laundry, unload the dishwasher, etc. He doesn’t need childcare, from me or anyone else. I can absolutely work from home while he is present with no issues. Don’t assume kids = small kids who need constant attention.

   13. Never, especially in stodgy industries like law. There’s an element of “I don’t want the younger generation to have it easier than me” so I don’t see anyone being willing to implement it when they didn’t have it, even the current 30-something generation that is now very pro-remote work.

       1. I think that that is so not true in law. Junior lawyers have to have on-the-job training b/c they are 100% not qualified to do anything when they walk in the door. It is not self-training profession. It is like apprenticing for the first few years.

          In my firm, depending on the group, either the senior lawyer is remote to the team during the day (often on travel or at a client or in meetings) or the lawyers may be in different locations (so remote to each other, even if in an office), so as soon as people are competent AND reliable, they tend to be trusted to work on their own (whether remotely or not). Competence doesn’t happen on its own.

       2. I’m in law and discourage juniors from working from home not because I think they have some sort of right of passage but because you lose out on valuable learning opportunities when you aren’t physically in the office. Being able to get roped into a meeting last second, the five minute chit chat in the coffee room, swinging by someone’s office with a question that doesn’t necessarily warrant an email or phone call only happen when you’re physically there. You want to work from home on the weekends/evening, I fully support that! But working from home regularly during the day robs you of a lot of opportunities.

   14. I’m a WFH person that makes 6 figures… there are a few things that I think deeply affect WFH access:
       1- office space is too expensive to provide addequate space to employees, so the cost is shunted onto the employee to find a workspace.
       2- adequate technology (webex is totally capable of letting you work from home- your company just needs to pay for it & train you/everyone in it).
       3- attitudes- a lot of managers feel the way some of you feel above- that facetime is more important than results, and that because they can’t work from home well, no one can. I think this is an extrovert vs. introvert thing. I get the same amount of work done at home in half the time.
       4- Good managers- a good manager can set appropriate goals and measure success by someone meeting those goals- there are very few good managers as people are often promoted to managerial roles based on their success as individual contributors, not based on their ability to manage or lead well.

       Sadly, I think there is a current shift away from WFH– there’s no reason that an office can’t have people in office for certain days a week to get all those supposedly great collaboration/meetings done, and then let people wfh 2-3 days a week.

   15. I can’t wait for that day. My industry is extremely conducive to WFH, but my boss is opposed to it because she trusts butt-in-seat time over results. Since we live in a very HCOL area that forces people to have very long commutes, this causes resentment for many employees. I’m going to look for another job because I don’t want to work somewhere where I am not trusted. I think as employers lose more good employees, they might start transitioning more.

       Also, who on earth thinks it’s easier to concentrate and get things done in an open office or cube farm? It’s so damn loud all the time I can hardly hear myself think and my office has no small conference rooms or anywhere you can go to escape it. It hinders productivity and sets my teeth on edge.

       1. I also get irked and distracted by office noise, but I’ve got an office door I can shut if necessary. However, at home there are infinite things to be distracted by like my bed, my refrigerator, my TV, wanting to walk the dog, feeling too cozy in my leggings, knowing that no one is going to see me, going stir crazy and wanting a bit of human interaction so therefore I get on the internet….being in an office removes those temptations.

       2. I use earplugs in my cube farm and it works just fine for me. To each their own!

          1. How are earplugs conducive to collaboration though? You may as well just be at home if you want to block everyone out that thoroughly. I also can’t use them on conference calls when I’m dealing with tons of background noise.

             (Sorry if this double posts – had tech issues).

             1. Someone comes into your field of vision and you take out the ear plugs once you realize they want to talk to you. It’s just easier for people to have spontaneous interactions when they’re in the same physical space.

             2. What anon at 11:58 said. Someone comes to my cube, knocks on the cabinet, I take my ear plugs out and we have a conversation. This really is not hard.

          2. Glad earplugs work for you guys, but I find the visual distractions just as challenging. The way my desk is configured, people walk by in the hallway in one direction and towards the windows in the other direction. Even if I wear earplugs, it’s distracting to constantly have people entering and exiting my line of vision. I would find it WAY easier to focus at work if I had my own office like I used to. This is a known problem with a lot of research and anecdotal data behind it as well.

             1. +1. I find it so hard to focus in an open floor plan.

   16. I am in technology and it is the norm – most of us work remotely, in the field, among our customers. We go to offices, to our customer’s offices to work with them directly. When we are not doing that we are working from our home office, without distractions, getting a lot of work done. Our global gets together a couple of times a year for strategic planning meetings in one location and we meet at conferences, etc. Our ecosystem is very rich and without working remotely, we would not be able to impact so many customers (B2B technology sales) I could never go back to the same office, all day, to see the same people, over and over….technology enables us to work remotely very efficiently and you will continue to see this trend increase.

       1. My husband is in IT and I see this but the flip side is that the people who don’t want to work in an office ALSO don’t want to be on even 25% travel (and it sounds like you or many others in this field travel more than that). And if you have kids, you often can’t effectively WFH with them around (and many people want WFH at least during school hours); those people often don’t want a travel or on-site intensive job (b/c driving to a client’s side is often more of a hassle that driving to an in-town office even if it is same-city).

          1. The flipside of being able to WFH for me is that I travel a lot- about 1 full week every 1-2 months, and my husband is a solo-parent those weeks. Still worth it to me/us for the flexibility the other 75-80% of the time.

       2. See, I bet if you used the term “ecosystem” in a law firm, everyone from staff to partners would think you were talking about a forest. :) I work for partners in their mid 50s and their “ecosystem” is email and iphones.

   17. I actually think it’s the wave of the future. There’s enough academic research that shows flexible work benefits diversity (hire from a broader geographic region), and keeps women in the workforce. I don’t think it will be an all or nothing – like 100% WFH – for most professions, but I think things like core hours/days in office, shared/hoteling space in office and the flexibility to set hours and time at work will become the norm, at least in markets where there are talent shortages and a commitment to diversity. Like the above commenter, I’m in the Bay Area and this is definitely the trend. Also, around here it’s very popular to have a membership at a cowork space (usually closer to your home) to combat the “stuck in the house” issue.

       1. agree 100% on the diversity – something that many in metro areas don’t think about -I have had colleagues that live in rural areas tell me that without remote/WFH type of jobs (IT in this case), they would have very limited job options….the ability to work from home levels the playing field for many

          1. OTOH, many rural areas still have dial-up :(

             Re diversity — how would you even know who you had hired or had on your team? Many people think that Lynn Swan was a woman.

   18. I think there’s a way for offices to allow more flexibility with wfh, but it’s sort of a middle ground. The offices where I’ve seen wfh work and not destroy office culture are offices where everyone has to be in the office 9-3 Tuesday through Thursday and then they can do flex time the other days, etc. My husband’s office does this, and he is pretty much in meetings straight on certain days a week, and then spends his wfh days doing work that he can’t do with other people around. He’s a software developer.

       I am attorney and while I do think law does lend itself to having some flexibility, I agree with other posters that it really isn’t ideal. I recently left a small firm that had unlimited flexibility. Because of that, most of the partners were really only in the office when they needed to take a conference call, prepare exhibits for a depo, or file something. So, they were never really there to chat with you or answer any questions that you might have. This also meant that the office was basically empty on most days, and that I worked at the firm for several years without ever having any conversations with some of the partners who wfh all the time. It was terrible, and I may as well have been working for a solo practitioner. Current firm very much values being at the office during business hours but allows wfh during nights/weekends, when staying home with sick kids, leaving early for childcare duties, etc., which is really all the flexibility I think I would want.

   19. I think this is a case of thinking that what’s good for you/what you want is what’s good for everybody/what everybody wants. Like many people have said above, they don’t *like* working from home. I certainly don’t. And it’s just not feasible for many types of jobs. But I’m sure there will continue to be an increase for those people and roles where it is appropriate.

       1. But I think the idea is that people would have flexibility and independence to work in a way that suits them, assuming that they are producing. It’s not that everyone has to work from home or that everyone has to work from an office. It’s that people will be given more right to decide what the best approach is for them.

   20. I have to be honest, I don’t love working from home and definitely wouldn’t want to all the time. And I’m an introvert, so that’s surprising to me. It’s nice to do occasionally when flexibility is needed or I need to keep my head down to get something, but my office setup is so much better. Bigger desk, dual monitors, faster internet, better access to information. I also think I miss out on a lot of the daily office vibe, which is fairly important in my job. Slack and Zoom are great, but they’re not a great full-time substitute for the conversations that take place in person. One member of our team worked remotely 75 percent of the time and she was inadvertently left out sometimes — nobody was doing it on purpose, but conversations/collaboration tend to happen more organically and not during a regularly scheduled meeting.

       I also think I would have trouble checking out of work. I prefer to have a clearer separation between work and home. (Having to check emails on the weekend is annoying enough.)

       1. Second to all of this. Especially for juniors. I’ll include my junior team if the client calls me and tell them to come by but I’m not going to conference them in or send a dial in for random short calls. And those calls were (and still are) where I learn a ton from just listening/watching the senior person and getting a chance to organically ask a random 1 minute question that I would never bother a senior person with in a separate email or call

   21. I’m echoing those who don’t benefit from a WFH situation. I benefit just from overhearing my boss’ conversations with clients on the phone (his door is open, phone is on speaker, and everyone is very loud generally and my office is next door). Even the phrases they use are helpful.

       Also, on a more practical level….. what about printing when you work from home? Some days I print several hundred pages that I need to review and hand mark comments on. I definitely absorb less information when I read things on a screen, and I certainly can’t revise a document I’m drafting if it’s not in hard copy. Also, I’m a real estate attorney and needs surveys printed on 24″x 36″ paper on a weekly basis.

       While I have a small printer a home that works for my personal items, it couldn’t handle the volume that the big copier/scanners do at my office.

   22. I have a team of 17 under me, all of us remote, all over the country. Regardless of face time, some of my employees are fantastic and some are just not so great. I think there is a tendency to blame all performance problems on WFH. When this tendency dissipates, that’s when you can start seeing a change.

3. I’m looking for advice for anyone who is or has been in a similar situation. I’m a senior manager in Big 4 and have essentially been told that “they can’t see me as a partner”. Im gutted. I know a large portion of this is my own making (putting my head down with the assumption that doing good work and serving my clients well would be enough) but have also run into and seen an ugly side of our leadership (favoritism with a thread of sexism) and just lost a client (Long story but no one is faulting me). When did you know it was time to leave and how did you start searching? I’m essentially priced out of jobs that are posted and have asked for help from those I work with already.

   1. post again because i think your post got up too late

      1. Haha at 9 am eastern time?

         1. It didn’t show up until almost 11. By that time, people had already read down thread and weren’t looking all the way back up here for new posts. I really wish moderated posts would post at the bottom of the thread.

         2. No, meaning there was a delay between when she posted and when it actually appeared on the page.

   2. Not sure what kind of work you are doing within a big 4, so YMMV. This has happened to friends/colleagues of mine who have been in consulting.

      One person went and sat by a lake for 6 months before getting a VP job he is meh about. Another actually started to respond to recruiters and a found a job with a PE firm. Another worked the partners for ins at companies and found an exec role that way.

   3. I’m sorry. It’s hard to be told that working hard isn’t good enough, especially if you’ve been one of those people who has always worked hard and been striving towards the next achievement level. It’s time to do some soul searching and define what success and career happiness means to you. Is it partnership in a Big 4 firm? Is it partnership in a smaller firm? Is it setting up your own company? Is it moving in-house/private accounting or to another type of adjacent role (compliance, finance, consulting etc?). So if being a partner in a firm setting matters to you, then maybe find another firm/smaller firm and try it out there. Or, be open to lateral or even small step back moves to get to where you want to be.
      I’m a lawyer who isn’t pursuing a partnership track anymore (and actively looking to leave firm life forever) so I know a little of which I speak. I’ll tell you- it took a lot for me to verbalize “I don’t want this life” and still feel okay in that choice. Because why wouldn’t you want to be at the pinnacle of law firm achievement (partner)? What’s wrong with you that you don’t have that fire in your belly or whatever element it is that drives you for this? Have I been making a mistake for the past 10+ years and maybe I shouldn’t have been a lawyer to begin with? Can I live without the money and the prestige? I’ve felt all of these things and depending on the day I still feel them. But, I am slowly coming to peace with them and feel pretty true to myself now.

   4. By priced out do you mean you can’t find another job where you make the same salary? Because I think ultimately you might just have to accept that.

      1. Yeah, this. I took a 25% pay cut to escape biglaw, where I didn’t feel I had a future anyways. No regrets.

   5. Always be searching. Honestly, not sure when/how you were told but it’s mid-January so you were just given the gift of not killing yourself trying to outperform this busy season.

      I had a longer response but am having technical trouble. Will try to reply again today or this weekend but head up. This is the start of the next great thing!

      1. I hope your weekend got better! So, 1. You made it this far. Obviously, you do good work otherwise these conversations would have happened years ago. 2. Remind yourself it’s not personal because it isn’t. I bet over the years you’ve known really awesome people that had to go elsewhere for their next steps and at the same time there are just ok people that seem to be doing great at the firm (this is not to discount all the great people at the firm but to highlight that it’s not only about being the smartest/best vs. not being good enough – a lot of it is being in the right place at the right time or working with the right people or any number of other factors that aren’t totally in your control).

         I would take some time to think about what you really like and don’t like about the work you’re doing and if that lines up with what the partners actually do. For me, I didn’t want to sell or worry about signing my name to work that was being done by a team I barely had time to interact with. The pay can be good but it’s not Big Law good and many partners didn’t have any better work-life balance than I did. Big 4 constantly dangled the “it gets better at the next level” carrot and, at least for me, it never did. But you’re not me and if you really want to be a partner you can certainly put feelers out to other firms – the rest of this long post assumes you’re done with public.

         You are a little priced out but hope is not lost and I don’t think you need to anticipate a big cut (in response to the other comment just remember that Big 4 pay isn’t Big Law pay so I don’t think that’s comparable for this). You may not get the big bump everyone assumes you get when you leave but don’t forget to think about the whole package too – better benefits may offset cash compensation. When you’re looking at jobs, try to think about where you want to be a few years out. A lot of being “priced out” is that the equivalent level jobs (which you could totally do) want public/private mix. So, you take an industry job for 1-2 years to check that box and set yourself up to be the ideal candidate for the job you really want (this sounds ridiculous but it really is all it takes IME). Any good recruiter will understand this and be able to share what people with similar backgrounds have done.

         The jobs you are looking for are usually not publicly posted so you need to know someone or go through recruiters. Reach out to people you know who have left in the last few years and ask them if they can recommend an external recruiter (sounds like you’ve been working with the internal which is a good resource too). Set your LinkedIn to indicate you are open to hearing about jobs. If you feel comfortable post your market and people here might have some recommendations. When it comes to actually dealing with recruiters, I found 2-4 firms to be the right number for me. There is a lot of overlap in what they have and you’ll drive yourself crazy trying to keep track of who told you about what opportunity. However, some firms get exclusives so you do need more than one to widen the net. Don’t feel like you have to respond to every cold call but don’t be afraid to hear some of them out even if they are real salesy (ugh, some of them are so salesy).

         Put together a resume and set a goal to talk to at least one recruiter this week. Just say you’re ready to move on, you have some time to wait for the right position (if that’s true) and you’d like to get a sense of what’s out there so that this is your last busy season. Continue to do what you need to at work to be comfortable you aren’t leaving anyone hanging but delegate more and don’t feel bad about taking time off for interviews if you need it. If the partners have already had this conversation, then they have adjusted their expectations of you and are most likely willing to help with the transition. They want to part on good terms with you and part of having this conversation is to give you the heads up to do exactly this.

   6. I am a lawyer, and did make partner. Then firm leadership changed they cut my non equity salary. I was told that was about business development. (Will avoid details but this was not fair). Later the new leadership told me they thought maybe in house was better for me in a vaguely threatening way. I seized the bill by the horns and told key people at the firm I was looking to leave and received a number of intros and job leads as a result. Meanwhile management tried to get me to sign a release, I refused to unless they gave me money (they didn’t) so they just dropped it. I basically showed up to handle my few cases and spent the rest of the time looking for a job. It was highly humiliating and really the worst time of my life. I cried often and lost 10 lbs from stress. I would listen to that Katy Perry song “roar” on the way to work to psych myself up. It sucked. There was definitely sexism – i won’t go into details but there was a pattern. Of course, it would be hard to prove.

      Happy ending- I found a great in house job that I love. I work with a really diverse group of people, I am respected and valued and my hours are great. I randomly applied to this job – no connections- and it worked out. I make less money but I saved a lot before and am ok.

      My advice – Hold your head up high. This is not about your worth as a person. Start networking.

4. Can we talk about successful friend break ups? I have a friend of many years (over 10), we were in each others weddings etc. However, we have just grown apart. We are totally different people and spending time together is stressful because we just live such different lives. I have friends where we live totally different lives and this is not stressful at all, but this friend makes everything a competition it doesn’t need to be. I attempted just letting it kind of drift apart but the other friend keeps wanting to have these emotionally charged texting conversations about what we did wrong/how we should change etc – and I really have no desire to do that. She seems to thrive from drama, and I want nothing to do with drama. I have friends where we don’t talk for 6 months and its fine and there is no guilt and we just pick up where things left off, however this person want me to apologize not reaching out (even though she didn’t either) and its just draining. We don’t live in the same state so its not like we are physically near each other either. I am getting nothing out of this friendship anymore but stress. I sent her a message (that my husband read over to make sure it was kind and clear) to say basically that I think our friendship has run its course and thank you for the good memories but I am ready to be done. She sent me back a really really angry text. Do I respond? Do I just let it fade? I don’t want to be a jerk but I also am over this!

   1. Don’t respond. It’s over now.

      1. +1

         And block her number if necessary.

   2. Don’t respond. You’ve already said your piece. You don’t want to be her friend.

   3. She can absolutely be sad/mad/hurt, whatever she wants, but she shouldn’t be taking it out on you. I wouldn’t respond and then would block her. She can’t force you to be in a friendship if you don’t want to be so do what you would/should do with a guy who spewed angry messages at you after a calm, mature breakup, block!

   4. Block her.

   5. I had a coworker who got to be too close of a friend and I had to force, not exactly a breakup, but a lightening of the friendship. It reminded me of what you wrote because she too wanted to sit down and talk about issues in our relationship all the time, like little things I had said that she had interpreted in a hurtful way, and she needed me to apologize for them. She was also extremely competitive with me career-wise, and after a while I just found the whole thing exhausting. Additionally, I got married and while we were closer friends (she was already married) and my husband started referring to her as SWF from that movie Single White Female. From his perspective the relationship was borderline obsessive, and it took him saying that for me to see that it really had gone too far.

      I just made myself less available. It worked out well timing wise because my job became a lot busier and I could kind of pin it on that. I didn’t answer her texts all the time. I wasn’t available for lunch or weekend plans as much. I still texted sometimes and met for lunch sometimes but I just really reduced the frequency.

      Now it is several years later and I still see her. We are both part of a larger professional friends group that gets together occasionally. We are friends on Facebook. But the intensity has really lessened, and I am definitely not the first person she texts when something big is going on with her, and thankfully i haven’t had to endure any “let’s sit down and discuss how you have failed me as a friend” sessions in quite a while.

      So, long story, but don’t return texts immediately, pick and choose which topics you will respond to, and don’t plan any get together for a while. Just be unavailable. I don’t think it’s necessary to have a breakup talk. Just try to move your friendship to a more superficial level.

      1. I think this definitely would have worked, if OP hadn’t already sent a “breakup text.” This is essentially what I did in a similar situation, and it did work (I also moved states, so that helped).

         1. I really tried to move it there! We haven’t lived in the same state/country for years. She just kept sending me really drama filled texts so I felt the need to make a more formal end.

            1. Yeah sorry OP. I didn’t realize an ad was blocking the end of your post with the bit about the breakup text when I posted this. I agree with a poster below – at this point, stop responding to her. You’ve said what you needed to say, and any further communication is more drama for her.

               Expect her to trash you to your mutual friend and maybe vaguebook or even more directly post about your breakup on social media. You have to be confident in your decision and not stoop to her level.

               I would probably have cleanly broken like this with my SWF friend in the story above had we not worked in the same industry. But I’m guaranteed to run into her regularly for the rest of my career so I just needed things to wither away without a big dramatic breakup (which she would have absolutely loved for dramatic reasons!) Even so I know she was spoken to mutual friends about what a not-good friend I am, because they told me.

   6. No, don’t respond. I don’t know that there is such a thing as a “successful” friend breakup where both parties are mutually happy to part ways. You suspect that she feeds off drama, and you are providing that to her. I know it’s hard to stop engaging because you want her to see your side and agree that the friendship is over. But she wants to fight about this with you. You need to stop engaging with her.

      1. This is really good advice.

   7. I was in your situation two years ago. The only thing I did diferently it was that after sending my message when I received hers I deleted it without reading. I knew that if she had wrotten something really nasty that would make me really sad and stressed. I prefered to keep the good memories of the relation.
      Delete the message and do not reply her. It is over.

5. This shirt looks like something a prisoner would wear. Total fug.

   1. Meh, I have a top that’s kind of similar and it’s the pirate look I have to watch out for.

   2. It hurts my eyes.

      1. Same. If it hurts my eyes in the picture, it would be way worse in real life.

         1. Disagree. I think it probably looks way worse on a screen.

            1. Idk a guy who used to work to me had a shirt with weird stripes like this and I had to avert my eyes whenever he came over to talk to me wearing it.

   3. I also have a similar shirt, and I love it…but if I don’t pay close enough attention, I look like Dorothy Zbornak dressed like a referee.

6. Accidentally wore almost the same outfit as my boss today…who is a guy. Guess everyone thought casual Friday was the right time for chambray and black jeans!

   1. I love it!

   2. Lol, I’ve done that before. I’m never sure who’s more mortified….

   3. My boss, my assistant, and I all wore the same outfit one day. My boss is a man. Boss was wearing– grey sweater over white button down and black pants. Assistant was wearing grey sweater and black pants with a scarf. I was wearing a black sweater over a white button down and grey pants. My assistant basically had a life crisis and went shopping the next day. Boss thought this was hilarious and tried to get us to take a picture together.

      1. My boss and I have worn the same exact outfit or very, very similar many times- right down to that we both have a purple-pink JCrew coat and a pink bag. We did the same thing on Wednesday (I was wearing a plum skirt, black tights, black turtleneck, black knee-high boots, she was in a plum dress, black ponte blazer that fell so that her dress looked like a skirt, black tights, and almost identical boots.) and realized that we have very, very similar coloring so we tend to gravitate to the same colors for each season. It’s just awkward when someone goes “Hey do you guys know you match today?” Yes we know.

      2. This happens in my office. Every so often we have Leopard Day. We love it and we always take photos!

         1. Lol – how awesome to work where there’s a “Leopard Day”!

   4. My boss (also female) and I show up to work in very similar outfits ALL the time. We laugh when it happens.

7. What are some fun things you have planned for this weekend?

   I’ve had a bit of a rough time recently. My grandmother who I had a special connection with passed away unexpectedly just before the new year. My parents were expected to visit this weekend but had to cancel because of another death in the family of someone younger than them. I feel like I want to do something fun and excillerating but nothing seems to matter anymore.

   I’d love to see someone but that’s not an option at the moment for budget and availability reasons.

   Sorry for the depressing post

   1. OH and DH and I moved to SoCal recently so I dont have any friends I could hang out with.

      1. If the weather is nice, go for a hike! There is so much great hiking in SoCal. If you post your city, maybe locals can give you some ideas.

         1. Plus, arrange a FaceTime or Skype call with someone you’d like to see but can’t visit right now.

      2. I’m sorry about all of the sad events in your life lately.
         Depending on where in SoCal you are, I think you and DH should have an adventure this weekend. Go to the beach, try a new-to-you hike that’s supposed to have great views, walk along the beach front properties in Manhattan Beach, etc.
         As for me, I’m hoping that it will be a quiet weekend so I’ll have some time to recharge!

      3. Go for the day to santa barbara- if you can stay overnight, but if not, just go and hang out at the beach. If you are more on the OC side, go to laguna beach.

      4. Where in SoCal, OP? If you’re east of LA, wanna be my friend? I like beer and feminism and dumplings and silly crafts and my kid and cats and other people’s dogs.

         I’m so sorry for your losses, that sucks.

         1. I mean, duh you don’t have to be in a particular spot to be friends, but I’m between LA and Palm Springs so it’s hard to hang out with people who are in like, Northridge or whatever.

            1. Not the op, but awww, I grew up in “northridge or whatever” and am into all of those things!

            2. I also grew up in Northridge or whatever, and am into all of those things except beer (I like breweries, though, just wish they served wine).

            3. One of my high school friends lives in Northridge Or Whatever, and between our kids’ schedules and traffic, we probably get together twice a year :-/

            4. Rainbow hair- I get it, one of my bfs moved to Ontario and aint nobody got time for that. And I think I’d have luck getting anyone from LA proper to visit me in Mexico than in the valley!
               Anon @ 11:53, wonder if I know you in real life lol. C-House class of 03!

            5. I grew up in Granada Hills! LOL’ing so hard at “Northridge or whatever”

            6. PHX I grew up in GH too, but included that in the “whatever.” Also lol’d so hard & this is a highlight of my day!

            7. And Rainbow Hair — I thought for sure you were in the Santa Clarita Valley…. ;)

            8. Team Bakersfield….checking in

            9. Team San Gabriel Valley here. I’m NOT a valley girl, I’m NOT I’m NOT. I do love me some dim sum palaces though.

      5. I’m on the Upper East Side (Pasadena area) if you want to hang out. We’re old but fun. seniorattorney1 at gmail.

   2. I’m so sorry to hear about your grandmother and your other relative.

      What about playing tourist in your own city? It’s new to you, so it’ll feel touristy; it’ll be distracting; it might show you all the fun of your new home; and you can look forward to showing your parents all the fun when they do visit.

      As for what I have planned for the weekend: making my husband a nice dinner for his work-anniversary and breaking out the nice new Scrabble set we got for Christmas. And reading in the bathtub.

   3. I’m so sorry for your loss(es). I hope you can find something enjoyable to do this weekend.

      I’m taking my 7 yo daughter to see Aladdin the musical. I’m so excited because I’ve heard great things about the show and my infant is staying home with DH so I’m really excited to spend some one-on-one time with 7 yo.

   4. I’m so sorry about your grandmother and relative. I’m on the whole other side of the country, but if I were in your neck of the woods, I would be happy to keep you company. I hope you’ll have nicer and warmer weather than we will so you can get outside and feel the sunshine on your face. That always helps to make things feel a little better.

      I’m going to my best-friend-since-birth’s daughter’s baby shower and then going with my sister to see The Wizard Of Oz for it’s 80th anniversary. Believe it or not, neither one of us have seen it in its entirety, only bits and pieces. It ought to be amazing to see in a theater. If any of you dear ladies are interested (or want to take your tiny humans!) check out fathom events dot com and search for a theater in your area. It’s only showing for a limited time starting this weekend.

8. I’m eyeing the Cuyana cropped boxy cashmere t-neck. Does anyone have? Comments?

   I have an older LE one, but it is about 12 years old and my shape has changed a bit. It is in fantatic shape though, but doesn’t work as a work piece for me now. I need a slightly cropped (I’m short) cashmere t-neck replacement. [Banana has a great chunky cashmere mockneck right now, but comes in navy and not black.]

   If not the Cuyana one, what else is there? Uniqlo didn’t work for my shape — band on bottom didn’t hit me quite right.

   1. I think you should order the Cuyana one and see if you like it. They have fast shipping and free returns. I don’t have the cashmere but I’m wearing the wool coat today and I love the quality. I also have the alpaca wrap and I wear it all the time.

9. We own a 2-family house in the city and are looking to move to the suburbs by spring. We have 3 dogs, an infant daughter, and a huge amount of stuff. The idea of trying to show the house while occupied is completely daunting. Is it crazy to buy a new house and move before putting the current house on the market? Wouldn’t it sell for more?

   Our tenant’s rent covers the current mortgage plus profit, and we’d ask her to go month-to-month in April when her lease expires. New owners here can’t evict tenants so it’s best to have her on a month-to-month lease to be appealing to buyers. Worst case, she moves out, and we find a new month-to-month tenant at a lower rent that still covers the mortgage. Or even-worse worst-case, we’re stuck covering two mortgages, which we could do for a few months. Does this plan sound crazy? How do people buy and sell at the same time?

   (Whether we should keep our current home and rent both units is a whole other topic of debate. Aaah.)

   1. You should not buy a new house without selling our old house because of your stuff. You could:
      – get a storage unit and move all extra stuff in there
      – get a short term Airbnb/ rental and stay in there so the other place can look pristine
      – get rid of as much stuff as possible. You really don’t want to move it.
      –

      1. It’s not just the stuff – it’s more the dogs (they’re not dog-friendly so we never do daycare) and the baby (who makes life complicated). We’ve looked into some rentals but a rental taking 3 dogs seems really hard to come by. Oh, and we have chickens too…

      2. Agreed.

   2. Talk to a RE agent in your area (like the person who sells a ton of listings in your neighborhood) to see what it is realstic to expect. In my ‘hood, houses may sell in a day or 4 months and very little in between, which I have never been able to explain. Your agent may help think of pricing low to have a quick sale / perhaps spark a bidding war.

      Often, if you are committed to moving, you de-clutter and move a lot of stuff into something like a POD and then stage and take pictures. And the first weekend your house is listed, stay in a hotel to allow for maximum showings and no chance to dirty up your house. Board your dogs.

   3. Why do you have such a huge amount of stuff for 2 adults and 1 baby? Downsize and organize your stuff. Pack away and store anything you won’t need until after the move like Christmas decorations or summer gear if you plan to move before summer. Don’t buy a house just to have a place to store your stuff while you try to sell your current house. If you don’t have room in your house, and can’t downsize/organize, rent a storage unit for a few months.

   4. Crazy or not, I am considering this path as well and I don’t have any rental income (but can float two houses for a period of time). I have two dogs (one of whom is old and not house-trained) and two cats, and I cannot imagine showing my house with the animals (and potential messes) present.

   5. I bought a house and still own my old one. I haven’t moved fully yet (we’re fixing it up), but once I move it will go on the market. If you don’t need to sell your house and you don’t want the stress of showings while living there, it’s perfectly reasonable to wait. To me the extra carrying cost was worth the lack of hassle.

   6. I actually don’t know anyone who has stayed and tried to sell a house while living in it – in my market, people get a bridge loan, buy new house, move and stage old house. Granted it’s a sellers market and things move fast so it’s not a risky move.

      1. This.
         All these things can be true… i.e. downsize, shop for new home, get loan, close, move, sell home ASAP
         Would definitely be easier, IMHO.
         Good luck!

   7. We’re considering something similar so I don’t think it is crazy. I’m 6 months pregnant, we have a dog that barks a lot and a cat. By the time we find a house to buy (inventory is very low in my HCOL city and the neighborhoods we want typically result in bidding wars) I’ll almost certainly be close to my due date or have a newborn. I can board the dog, I don’t know about the cat and the cat litter definitely has to be gone to show a house (no basement, no good place to “hide it”). I suppose a friend could take the cat for a 2 week period but that would be asking a lot and the cat would be miserable. Even if we did all that, it still leaves me and the newborn and all the newborn clutter. We can float two mortgages for 6 months comfortably. Well priced homes in my current neighborhood sell within the week typically. It seems a whole lot less stressful to buy a new house and worry about selling the current house after we move.

   8. My advice to anyone who is moving is to “pack by throwing out.” Your first step is to go through stuff and throw out or donate that which you do not need or want anymore. After that, packing is a lot easier.

      For you, this will enable you to show your house while living in it. Send the dogs to doggy day care when you have an open house.

      1. Yup. “Don’t bother moving anything you’re not going to keep” – my mom every time I moved out of a dorm room

      2. +1. I have showed/sold two houses while living there. We also put the dogs in day care when we knew people were coming to see it. And +1 million to getting rid of stuff.

   9. Another thought: do not get a new tenant who rents month to month. In my former state, which also does not allow new owners to evict before the end of a lease, evicting a tenant who overstays a lease or does not pay rent is a nightmare process that results in a multi month court battle.

      You have a good tenant. Sell with a good tenant at the end of her lease or sell empty.

   10. NewMomAnon – I believe you have posted recently on the mom’s site and i apologize if i’m confusing you with someone else. I think you first posted that you wanted to leave your family friendly job to become a SAHM even though you earn significantly more than DH, and then you posted about DH staying home and moving to a dream house/farmland that would give you a 60+ minute commute each way and DH would become a SAHD. Can I gently suggest you wait on some of these decisions. As a new mom myself (9 months in), a lot of thoughts I had within the first 3-4 months of my twins life were not fully rational or thought out. You might not think you have PPD or PPA, but wanting to make so many abrupt life changes might be indicative of some underlying anxiety. I know people on this board are often quick to jump to therapy, but unless these changes were planned before you had the baby, please give your hormones some time to settle down. Being a new mom is really hard!

       1. Agree. Unless this is a long planned moved, I strongly recommend against making any major life changes in the first year after baby, including moving. Hormones and sleep deprivation are no joke and what life is like with an infant is a brief stage and not a great basis for lifelong decisions.

       2. I thought New Mom Anon from the moms page was divorced with an older kid (preschool age at least)? I’m so confused. Maybe it’s a common moniker that numerous people are using.

          1. I think the original New Mom Anon left and this is a new person using the same name.

       3. People are “quick to jump” to therapy because it’s often what people need. It’s not a bad idea or something to brush off just because it comes up all the time. (I’m speaking to the tone you used when you described it; I realize you are also softly recommending it here.)

       4. I didn’t know any of this reading the OP’s story but it totally makes sense to me that these are partly new mom hormones, and partly just a reflection of how much it sucks to have a new baby to care for on top of full time work, and how one’s mind jumps to big ideas of how to make it all easier.

          To the OP, I felt this way when I had two kids under two, and lived in a tiny two bedroom house with a dog and two cats. When my son was only 6 months old I started looking for a bigger house because now I had a girl and a boy and there was no way that would work because they’d need their own bedrooms, right? We were overrun with baby stuff and strollers and the cat was peeing in the house probably because of all the disruption and I just felt like I needed some sort of Big Solution to make it all work.

          So I did find a bigger house. We showed our little house as best we could while we were still living there. We lost bids on several larger houses so it took several months, but by the time my son was 9 months old we were in escrow on our current house.

          Then the following happened

          The mortgage lender got wind of the fact that we were going to sell our house and closed our home equity line of credit, from which we had planned to temporarily draw the bulk of our downpayment for the new house until the old house sold

          The buyers of our new house did not have a loan contingency but all the same failed to get their loan, and were teetering on backing out of the contract. This would have meant re-marketing our old house in January, a terrible time of year to sell, and probably taking a lower selling point.

          Our inspection on the new house turned up a bunch of expensive issues that needed to be addressed before we moved in, which the sellers paid half of, but were still expensive for us at 50%, and we had to figure out how to oversee the contractors while not living in the house and having two babies at home.

          This was easily in the top 5 stressful times in my life.

          When everything finally closed (the buyers finally got a loan) and we moved into the house, there was a sense of relief but also just a ton to do on the new house. And then we dealt with buyers’ remorse on top of everything else.

          And those two bedrooms we needed for our opposite sex kids? They voluntarily slept in the same bedroom until they were both in elementary school. We definitely could have waited years to do this.

          I’m writing this to suggest you slow down, look at Little Solutions rather than Big Solutions, and give yourself time to figure everything out. Life with the baby will get easier as baby gets older. Think about small things you can do to make your house less cramped and maybe (definitely) do not add any new animals to your life. Try to subtract things from your life rather than add them, and moving houses and dealing with evicting a tenant and dealing with your unfriendly dogs is definitely adding things. Just take a breath.

   11. We have had the luxury of buying another house, moving, and then listing the old one. We are not big risk takers but were moving from a townhouse that was one of only 11 with a history of quick sales. I found it to be such a relief. We left a few choice pieces of furniture for staging, did not have to worry logistics of a new baby and toy poodle. It was lovely.

   12. Let me just tell my story so you have this for context as you consider your options.

       We did this – bought a new house and moved, and then fixed up the old house and put it up for sale. We had been advised by three different real-estate agents that we would have no problem selling the house within 30 days; average DOM in our area was 17 days (most houses were selling with multiple offers within days of listing) and we priced the house well under the Zillow estimate and just under the average sell price in the neighborhood. It’s a seller’s market in our area with less than three months of inventory on the market. We are now at 60 days on the market and the old house hasn’t sold. Due to delays in contractors completing work, it went up for sale the week after Thanksgiving; we had one offer that didn’t actually get to contract and one offer that went under contract but fell apart when the buyers couldn’t secure financing. Our Realtor is blaming the fluctuations in the stock market and the government shutdown for the situation (we live in an area with a lot of federal government employment); we also have a large house relative to the rest of the neighborhood.

       The good news is, we have no problem covering the bills on the old house and the new house without too much financial stress. We haven’t had to do major lifestyle cutbacks or anything; not as much money is going into savings but we are in a good place financially and that’s not a huge concern.

       The bad news is, we have two houses and we only need one. We have to go over to the old house twice a week to check on it and clean it and we have had inclement weather which means we have to worry about weather damage on two homes. We also just got our homeowner’s insurance on the old house canceled this week by State Farm, which does not insure vacant houses, period. We had to get a (pretty weak) vacant-house policy and pay an out of pocket, lump-sum premium that is nonrefundable if the house sells before the six month term is up.

       We also had a lot of stuff and two dogs, and we also had repairs and upgrades that needed to be done to the old house in advance of selling it. We figured it would be so much easier to move out, into the new house and get all the painting and electrical work done when we weren’t living there. We were right – that was easier, no doubt. There was also the fact that we bought in a seller’s market with short inventory – it took us a long time to find the right house in the right school district and when we found something, we had to jump on it (sellers in our area are not accepting offers with seller’s contingencies attached). We were also in a situation where we wanted to switch my son to a new school for the spring semester and we were able to do that, and he is much happier in the new (much better) school. But the stress of this experience has made me really question whether this was the right decision and I am not sure if we would do this again.

       If we get to 120 DOM we’ll pull it off the market and get a property-management company to run it as a rental property. That would not be the end of the world, and it’s something we’ve talked about for a long time anyway. The mortgage payment on the property is low and we can rent it out for more than the mortgage + utility payments we owe. I really don’t want the hassle of being a landlord, but I keep hearing that’s what property managers are for…we’ll see.

       If you go this route, expect the unexpected to happen and really work your household budget numbers to make sure you understand what will happen if the old house doesn’t sell right away. I can’t imagine how stressed we would be if we had stretched financially to buy the new house. We also had set aside extra money for home repairs on both the old and the new houses and that was wise, as both places have had unexpected necessary repairs in the last three months. If you are on the edge financially in any way – income or savings – I would not buy without selling first. If you don’t have high risk tolerance, don’t do it. And if you can’t handle the stress/work of owning two properties for some period of time, don’t do it. I am not sorry we did what we did but I do wish things had gone the way we envisioned them instead of the way they’re going.

10. Any recipes for a savory dip to bring to a party that doesn’t have a ton of dairy?

    1. Everyone loves guacamole.

    2. This beat caviar is so good: https://www.101cookbooks.com/archives/beet-caviar-recipe.html

    3. Hummus? You can make it a little more exciting by subbing black beans for half the chickpeas and adding rosemary. Babaganoush is also tasty. Or something like a pinto bean dip with lots of cumin. Or zucchini salsa.

    4. 7 layer dip with hummus instead of sour cream, and skip the cheese on top

       1. Or… 7 layered Mediterranean dip instead of Tex-Mexican-style

    5. I make this roasted carrot dip all the time … so easy and it’s delicious. I add extra sriracha because I like it spicy. Cut up some pita or flatbread and you’re good to go. If you skip the yogurt dollop, it’s vegan.

       https://www.marthastewart.com/1124725/roasted-carrot-dip

11. I just started at a small firm recently but am starting to have regrets about coming to this firm. 1) Unlike my prior biglaw firm, none of the partners said thank you when I emailed them work product. I know it’s a small thing, but it still bothers me. 2) they held themselves out to be an elite litigation, but it turns out they mostly just handle mom and pop type of work (divorce, small businesses). 3) everyone seems really slow (only 3 associates billed over 2000 hours last year out of about 18 associates). Finally, looking at my classmates from HLS who also had top tier clerkships doing interesting high profile work at prestigious boutiques makes me wonder if I made the right decision.

    Is it too late to try to go back to biglaw or a more well recognized boutique?

    1. I don’t have any advice re: your question, but I would ask you to rethink your stance on thank you emails. They drive me insane. I already have enough in my inbox, I don’t need a thank you for doing my job and I don’t send them unless something truly extraordinary has been done. It’s an annoying extra email in my inbox that I don’t care about, and none of the management team I would be saying it to seems to care about it either. Hasn’t affected my career path one bit.

    2. 1) is weird and petty. I hate thank you emails just for the sake of saying thank you. I have enough emails pouring in, I don’t need want is essentially a polite read receipt. Standard to include any thanks for great work in the substantive comments on the draft.
       2) How did they trick you about elite litigation? Presumably their firm website would have listed major cases that they have worked on.
       3) why would you want to work over 2000 hours unless you have a 2000+ billables requirement? Lower target likely just means they value having a life outside of the office.

       Why did you leave biglaw? What’s changed about those reasons that would make you want to go back?

    3. Why did you make the move?

    4. I’ll defend the thank you email. People are busy and may miss your email with the requested work product. I didn’t used to understand how this happens, but I now routinely get 300 substantive emails a day and it makes total sense to me now. A thank you is a good way for the person receiving the email to acknowledge that they’ve seen it. If you don’t want to create more email you can mention it to the person in the hall when you see them or when you’re talking about another matter.

       1. This is literally the reason read receipts were invented. Just ask your subordinates to send all emails to you with them so they know if you have read something.

          1. This only works if you are the type of person that acknowledges it is possible you would miss something. A lot of bosses, particularly senior partners at law firms, do not fall in this category.

       2. I’ll defend it too. I don’t expect them for routine work that is part of my job, but if I go out of my way for a special request and spend a significant amount of time helping someone out, a simple reply is not that hard. I don’t work in law so different culture, I guess.

       3. Maybe that’s why partners at the old firm did it, because they had that volume of email? And maybe at the new firm that’s not the case? Either way, it’s just part of the office culture and OP is going to have to learn to accept the change.

       4. No no no no thank you emails. You get 300 emails a day. Do you need another 200 emails acknowledging your response to the 300 emails? Where does it stop? I worked for a Fortune 500 company that actually went out a note saying no thank you emails that we just “thank you” with no other purpose.

    5. there’s a lot of hilarious stuff in your post (slow associates? take a chill pill yo) but a serious answer is that it sounds like you made a bad choice and you should rectify it. If you want headpat emails and people crushing 2000+ years then yes, small law is not for you and your firm probably doesn’t need your judgey attitude. Better start looking now.

       1. +1

       2. This. Plainly the new firm is not a good fit for you and you need to jump out before they figure it out and push you out.

       3. Yeah, I read this as fake.

    6. You should figure out what you want to do, then look for those jobs.

       Not sure how to say this, but you do come off as a bit… entitled? You went to HLS – yay, you! You got a great clerkship – go, you. It is understandable and good that you want to leverage that into a career path that works for you, but when you want head-patting emails and “elite” litigation, it starts to sound… off.

       If you want to play in the games wherein everyone is extraordinarily talented, be aware that those are the games in which you are nothing special.

    7. I’ve done in-house, small, and regional mid-size. 1) New habit suggestion – find them physically next time they’re in the office/you’re on their floor and say “I sent you XYZ 2 days ago, anything else you need from me?” You’ll build relationships, most likely get a thank you, and it’s a good reminder that you’re there and that they have something in their inbox. 2) Are they “elite” for their region? Can’t help you here, but if you think their clients are not going to pay yourbills or other attorneys/firms disrespect their work product, I’d consider leaving. 3) I don’t know your market, but this is normal, not slow, for most non-BigLaw. I’ve had a drastic change in hours, happen to like being insanely busy, and found that the more face time I had with partners (see #1), the more work I got, and found 5-6 organizations I actively participated in – weekly professional lunch group, weekly study group at my church, Jr League committee, regional leadership program, taught a fitness class once a week, etc., all while attending random firm functions/events like Chamber of Commerce dinners and meeting their (lower) billable hour requirement. You’ll probably plant seeds for future clients, too. If that isn’t the life for you, that’s ok, but my guess is the other associates are doing other things than working. Finally, if you want to climb that ladder with those prestigious titles, go for it! Nothing wrong with it! It is not too late to go somewhere else, and if that’s what you really want, then do it. I do recommend waiting a year to see the flow of the firm if it’s not a toxic environment or terrible reputation (see #2). Good luck!

       1. Thank you so much! This is really helpful advice.

    8. If you think you truly made a mistake, I would urge you to try to course-correct as soon as possible. It will mean a short term position on your resume but if it’s the only one I think it can show dedication to what you want to do rather than a lack of loyalty.

       1. Got it, thank you!

       2. But try to sort out whether you’re having trouble adjusting or if you really think you made a mistake. Changing firms is hard, and I think going from biglaw to a small firm can be especially challenging. I had a really hard time the first six months at my current job (went biglaw –> boutique), but things did get better.

          1. I really appreciate your advice. I’m planning to give myself six months to see if I can adjust well.

12. Fabric experts? I want a silky faux wrap dress. Not real silk, but whatever that fabric is that isn’t shiny but has almost a gloss to it and a silky drape. Obvi some sort of synthetic but idk what it is actually called to search for.

    1. Rayon

       1. Thank you!

13. I was too late to chime in on the “new mom wanting to look more polished” thread yesterday, but in case this helps anyone:

    -yes, the Aquis hair towels do work beautifully. I use one every day on my long, thick, curly hair and leave my hair in the towel for about 10 mins while I apply makeup and get dressed. My hair goes from sopping wet to nicely damp, which I air dry with some curl cream. Somehow, off brand hair towels don’t work nearly as well for me.

    -I also recommend microblading for eyebrows (mine look super natural and low-key, and you’d never know I got them done), but instead of lash extensions, I’d recommend a lash lift and tint. I get one every 8 weeks and they curl (like a perm) and darken my lashes — basically making me look wide eyed and awake every day. Extensions were too high maintenance for me, but the lift and tint is perfect — and more affordable.

14. Can some delightful internet strangers please tell me I wont be the frumpiest frumps if I wear Talbots all day every day? The blazers and pants fit me so well, but I’m scared to look like I’m playing dress ups to look older as I’m a young-looking early 30’s. See e.g.

    https://www.talbots.com/online/bi-stretch-pull-on-skinny-ankle-pants-curvy-fit-prdi44919/N-0?Ntt=curvy+ankle+pant&selectedConcept=&akamai-feo=off

    +

    https://www.talbots.com/online/shetland-aberdeen-blazer-houndstooth-prdi47372/N-0?Ntt=red+multi+blazer&selectedConcept=&akamai-feo=off

    +

    https://www.zappos.com/p/cole-haan-50-mm-winnie-grand-bootie-waterproof-british-tan-waterproof-leather/product/9200450/color/804354?ef_id=XEsszwAAAMrYhVKl:20190125153747:s&utm_medium=pla_g&utm_content=46334440&zap_placement=1o8&utm_campaign=170853331&utm_term=pla-562665175141&utm_source=google

    1. I’m also a young-looking 33 and think that outfit is adorable. I can’t figure out booties with skinny pants, so I’d wear my standard pointy wedges (but that’s just me). I like Talbot’s and Chicos and stores that are generally marketed above my age demographic, and I think the fine line between stylish and frumpy (on me) is the sizing. I size down or tailor much of what I buy there so it’s a more “modern” fit compared to what I see ladies a few decades older than me buying.

       1. Haha I think it’s hilarious the really disparate ways people here can’t figure out booties. To me, they only work with skinny pants! I only ever wear them with skinny ankle pants. I couldn’t fathom them with anything else. But then I hear people here say the exact opposite. It just makes me laugh.

    2. Talbots clothing skews very classic. The cuts often do not read as modern. However, that doesn’t mean it’s inherently frumpy. Fit is a huge part of good style, so if these items fit you well, then you’re halfway there. The other half is how you style them. Be sure to choose other, non-Talbot items for your shoes and tops. Make sure your haircut is modern and current, and that your glasses (if you wear them) are too. And your shoes.

       FWIW, i like Talbot’s fabric quality and their items often fit me well. However, they skew too straight-up classic for me. I have to be very careful what i buy there. (Wore Talbots pants yesterday, with sneakers.)

    3. I am 29 and have some suiting pieces from Talbots that I got tailored, and I get compliments on them all the time. Like, legit, people ask me where I found a pantsuit that was so nice, etc. I did get these tailored pretty extensively, but I think Talbots suiting is meant to be tailored. Everyone is always shocked that I got the pieces at Talbots. (DH actually says these pants are the most attractive ones I own.) I think people assume that all clothes from Talbots must be ill-fitting. So– if they look good, rock on with your Talbots.

       Flip side of this is that any time I get something brightly colored that doesn’t fit me well in the mail, my husband says, “Is that from Talbots?” It never is.

    4. I’m in my early 30s and like some Talbots pieces because the quality is good, but I try to be careful about what colors and patterns I choose so it doesn’t become too much. I tend to go for more sedate colors (black, navy, plum) and purposely avoid their take on certain trends (like scalloped hems). My personal test is that if I could see my MIL wearing it to a baby shower, I cannot have it in my closet.

       1. “MIL at a baby shower” is a great test, lol.

    5. I like that outfit a lot and think it looks very modern. Not with an orange shirt, tbf, that looks like someone going to ride on the Moors, but with a different shirt I think it’s a great outfit!

    6. Thanks all!! I am inspired to forge ahead!! Hopefully my MIL will stay far far away from cropped pants/ankle boots and I can keep feeling like a the shoreditch hipster I am (on the inside anyway!).

    7. If i wasn’t 8 months pregnant, I’d buy this outfit, it’s SUPER cute. I’m also a very young looking 33… talbots can be very older/conservative, and a bit boxy, but I’ve found some great pieces there that work for my body type (short, packing some extra weight even not pregnant).

    8. I don’t think Talbots is necessarily frumpy. I think it’s suited to the way I’m built; it fits my broad shoulders well and a lot of their clothes are pretty classic. If the fit isn’t great then it’ll look frumpy .

    9. I got two of those blazers and I wonder the same things. But my alter ego is Penelope Keith in To The Manor Born. As much as I want to I can’t quit preppy/English country.

    10. That’s a great outfit. I’m 5′, mid-30s and some of my best-fitting work clothes come from Talbots – partly because it’s really hard to find petite suiting and blazers in the 12-14-16 range. I have the pink version of that blazer and I get compliments every time I wear it.

        I think the frump factor is more significant in the casual wear and not-work dresses. Also – the better you feel in it, the more confidence you project and the better you look!

    11. If they fit you well and you feel good in them, you won’t look frumpy, I promise!

    12. This outfit is perfectly fine. I would only worry you’re playing dress-up-as-older if you start wearing some of those Talbots “vacation” sweaters with embroidered lobsters or whatever. Blazers and ankle pants are classics and if they fit you well there is no reason they’d scream Talbots vs Zara.

15. How do you wear blazers in the winter during your commute? Is there enough room under your winter jacket for a blazer? I feel suffocated when I do that. Should I be buying larger coats to have more room? Or carry my blazer until I’m in the office? If I were to buy larger winter jackets, I think for the amount of room I need I would need the sleeves altered… TIA!

    1. I carry the blazer separately or even keep the blazer in my office, but I have a quick car commute so that may not be helpful to you. Or often, if it’s not ridiculously freezing, I’ll wear the blazer alone with no coat and just brave the cold. I hate the feeling of a blazer or other bulky items stuffed into a winter coat.

    2. I leave my blazers in the office or just carry them in and just wear the winter jacket over my dress or top.

    3. The coat I wear to work is large enough to wear a blazer under it. I have my coat tailored with a suit jacket on (I always need the sleeves taken up). My office is walking distance to the courthouse so the team usually walks over. I think it’d look weird to carry my suit jacket separately. No one else does that.

    4. I wear them under my coats.

    5. I wear them under my costs. I’ve always found that if a coat is my normal size, it’s cut to allow a blazer underneath.

16. I’m in the market for a new face wash and would love some recommendations. I have sensitive skin, but I don’t like the texture of the gentle Cetaphil and my skin never feels really clean after using it. Any recommendations? I’m flexible on price.

    1. Garnier Michellar Water- it’s super gentle but I find it does the job incredibly well.

    2. Have you considered double cleansing with Micellar Water first? It feels that way because the Cetaphil isn’t actually getting your skin clean, as I learned when I first tried Micellar Water after using Cetaphil and was horrified by how much was left on my face. Micellar Water + Cetaphil works well for me.

       1. Double cleansing at night works well for me in getting off makeup/sunscreen. I use Banila Purity (a Korean cleanser) and then wash with CeraVe at night. My face is clean but not stripped. If it feels really dry, I just use the Banila cleanser. During my morning shower, I use a Derma E cleanser

    3. I use Oil of Olay facewash and quite like it, but my favorite is Drunk Elephant’s jelly cleanser– really gets everything, even if you just wash with your hands.

       1. +1 on Drunk Elephant jelly cleanser. I used to use Garnier micellar water and a gentle Neutrogena face wash. I ended up with samples of IT Cosmetics Miracle Water and the Drunk Elephant jelly cleanser, and I was shocked by how much the condition of my (red and sensitive, dry and peeling in spots, prone to acne in others) skin improved after a few days of using both.

       2. I use the Drunk Elephant Pekee bar and LOVE it.

    4. I like Paula’s Choice Resist Optimal Results Hydrating Cleanser. Also sensitive skin, plus super dry. It leaves me feeling clean without that tight feeling I get from other ones.

    5. Sensitive, I get. But are you generally dry, oily, combo, etc.? I’ve found after decades of dermatologist appointments for my wonky skin that in general the brands aren’t the issue with sensitive skin, but particular formulas within the brand. Cetaphil and CeraVe have always been gentle on my sensitive skin, but different formulas within those brands worked better for me. I am normal/combination skin, and I use this https://www.cerave.com/our-products/cleansers/foaming-facial-cleanser but I wouldn’t recommend it for the very dry

       1. Good question. I’d say my skin is generally oily, acne-prone, but with patches of dryness/occasional peeling. It’s also prone to redness. Fun, right?

          1. Your skin is actually a lot like mine. I use plain old Aveeno bodywash – the one in a tan bottle with green top. I use miceller water or makeup remover to take off stubborn eye makeup, then wash.

       2. Agree – the CeraVe oily skin version is noticeably better for my slightly oily skin.

    6. La Roche-Posay Hydrating Gentle Soap Free Cleanser.

    7. I like to remove my makeup with Ponds cold cream and then wash with the Neutragena Naturals face wash.

    8. This stuff is great. Gets everything off but is still gentle: https://www.amazon.com/Face-Shop-Water-Bright-Cleansing/dp/B00FJ2LU2Q/

    9. I like the fresh soy cleanser. It’s like cetaphil but better.

    10. I use Cerave’s hydrating cleanser every night, I love it. It doesn’t foam like traditional cleansers but my skin is still clean.

    11. I have oily sensitive skin. Cerave rinses nicely, and if my face feels crazy oily, I occasionally wash it with a gold bar of Dial soap. People scream when I admit it but it truly rocks.

    12. It’s difficult to find and may be discontinued but I love Peter Thomas Roth’s Chamomile cleanser. My skin is similar to yours (and I also never feel clean with the Cetaphil cleanser). I also like Beauty Counter’s face wash.

    13. Ponds cold cream! Learned about it here and have been using it for 3+ years. I’m hooked!

    14. I have had good luck with the philosophy purity cleanser as a works better than cetaphil on my oily sensitive, rosacea and acne prone skin.

    15. Shiseido Pureness is my favorite. It’s expensive but lasts a really long time.

17. Am I crazy to hold off on booking non-essential travel until the shutdown is over? I’d like to plan a trip to NY for sometime in March, but I just read that flights at LaGuardia are currently grounded due to shutdown issues. I’d like to think the shutdown would be over by March, but who knows ….

    1. Yeah I think it’s silly to avoid travel because of the shutdown. I flew three times in January, am flying once in February and once in early March.

    2. I’m concerned about work travel I have coming up. I don’t think it’s a good idea to rely on overworked, unpaid air traffic controllers who have real distractions threatening their ability to do their job safely. I would skip flying if I could.

    3. I just flew and had zero issues. Everyone was warning me about security but it took the usual 20 minutes—large hub airport.

       1. I think the biggest concerns are absences of traffic control personnel and no FAA inspections, rather than TSA.

    4. My theory is once the shortage starts impacting air travel (particularly if it starts impacting flights in and out of DC on weekends when Congress wants to go home), Congress will actually manage to come up with a solution pretty quickly. Which is to say I’m not terribly worried about booking flights in a few months.

       1. *shutdown, not shortage (though I guess it’s air traffic controller shortage)

       2. (And by Congress, I really mean Mitch McConnell)

    5. I have a 3 flight trip from one coast to the other (so 6 flights round trip) coming up in about 2 weeks and I am terrified it’s going to be an awful experience. This was booked pre-shutdown and it’s an event so it can’t be canceled. I don’t blame you at all.

    6. My boss has been stuck at LaGuardia for hours so…no it’s not crazy

    7. Would travel insurance cover this?

       1. Probably not. Insurance generally doesn’t cover issues that are already known at the time you buy the insurance. Also I don’t think travel insurance would normally give you any reimbursement for a delayed flight or a long wait at TSA. It reimburses if your flight is cancelled and you get stranded somewhere that’s not home and have to buy a hotel room. You haven’t lost any money (out of pocket at least) if you have a two hour wait to get through TSA. I don’t think they would buy the argument that your time is worth $X per hour.

    8. has anyone flown from oakland and lax recently? Wonder if I should plan more time than usual for security.

       1. LAX TSA has been fine for the last 3 weeks. I have Clear and precheck, so YMMV.

    9. Govt is open for the next 3 weeks, so travel now!

18. Random question. Is there such a thing as an attractive massage chair? After much negotiating, DH will be getting a massage chair in the family room. Are there any that are not huge and hideous? I haven’t been able to find any online . . . .

    1. Nope

19. Are there any drugstore/OTC products that actually whiten teeth, or am I better off going to a dentist? I don’t smoke and I don’t drink coffee, I rarely drink red wine, but I do drink black tea every day (with cream, which I’ve heard negates some of its staining effects?). I wouldn’t bother, but I’m moving into increasingly public roles and am photographed more often and would just like to appear more polished.

    And related, what are your best tips for being photographed? I feel like I freeze up and get super awkward and I’m only really happy with photos about 50 percent of the time.

    1. Crest whitestrips work like a charm for me, but some folks complain about sensitivity/pain during and after.

    2. Sounds like me but I’m not sure the milk has negated the tea! I do the trays and opalescence and they are reasonably priced on amazon. It will probably be quicker and better on your gums than anything otc.

       1. Not the OP but I’ve tried this brand too, which I got from my dentist, and they didn’t do anything for me. I think my teeth are naturally discolored though as they have been this way even when I was young so I’m not sure what my options are.

    3. Colgate Optic White toothpaste!

    4. Re photographed: practice. Look at the photos you like, stand in front of a mirror, and mimic until you can feel the muscle memory for the smile/expression/angle you want. I know my angles and can feel when my smile and expression are “right”–for me its a more relaxed smile than my natural grin and making sure to keep my eyes slightly open.

    5. FWIW, my dentist told me to try Crest whitestrips before exploring any other options (I haven’t yet, but I appreciated the advice when she could have sold me on a more expensive treatment plan).

       I’ve felt the same way about photos and my best advice is to gather your favorites and your least favorites and look for similarities/differences. When I did this I found that if I tilt my head a certain way or try to avoid smile-bags under my eyes, I look stilted and weird.

    6. Crest White Strips work wonders, and they have lots of different varieties depending on how long you want to wear them or if you are sensitive.

       In terms of being photographed, the internet is your friend here. I would suggest watching a couple YouTube videos on “how to look good in photos” and then trying some of the suggestions. There are some weird tricks I’ve learned, like simultaneously pulling my shoulders back and chin forward, that feel weird and unnatural in the moment but helps me look nice in photos.

    7. Brush with just baking soda every now and then. Also, your teeth may be naturally darker. It’s natural. I find the glaringly white teeth (and bleached out gums) just obviously unreal.

       I smoke and drink milky black tea, after years of milky coffee. My teeth are just naturally yellow-ish, have been since they came in.

20. Does Title Nine ever discount shipping or prices? How are their tops in particular?

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