ByElizabeth Hours Updated
Comments 435 Comments

Thursday’s Workwear Report: Richmond 7/8 Pants

I saw someone wearing kelly green pants the other day and now I won’t rest until I find the perfect pair for my own closet. (Side note: If you see a stranger wearing an article of clothing that you love, do you ask where it’s from?)

Boden is usually a safe bet if you’re looking for bright colors, and these pants do not disappoint. I would probably wear these with a neutral top, but if you’re feeling bold, I think they would look great with other jewel tones, like royal blue or deep purple.

The pants are $90 and available in regular sizes 2–22, petite sizes 2–12, and tall sizes 2–22. They also come in 12 (!) other colors. Richmond 7/8 Pants

Two plus-size options are from Eloquii, both in sizes 14–28 — the same style of pants in their Regular fit and Gena fit. 

Sales of note for 12.13

  • Nordstrom – Beauty deals on skincare including Charlotte Tilbury, Living Proof, Dyson, Shark Pro, and gift sets!
  • Ann Taylor – 50% off everything, including new arrivals (order via standard shipping for 12/23 expected delivery)
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 400+ styles starting at $19
  • J.Crew – Up to 60% off almost everything + free shipping (12/13 only)
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off everything and free shipping, no minimum
  • Macy's – $30 off every $150 beauty purchase on top brands
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off, plus free shipping on everything (and 20% off your first order)
  • Talbots – 50% off entire purchase, and free shipping on $99+

Sales of note for 12.13

  • Nordstrom – Beauty deals on skincare including Charlotte Tilbury, Living Proof, Dyson, Shark Pro, and gift sets!
  • Ann Taylor – 50% off everything, including new arrivals (order via standard shipping for 12/23 expected delivery)
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 400+ styles starting at $19
  • J.Crew – Up to 60% off almost everything + free shipping (12/13 only)
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off everything and free shipping, no minimum
  • Macy's – $30 off every $150 beauty purchase on top brands
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off, plus free shipping on everything (and 20% off your first order)
  • Talbots – 50% off entire purchase, and free shipping on $99+

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

435 Comments

  1. hello hive!

    I’m looking for some advice on a CV. I’m currently updating mine. I received some advice from a close personal friend who is a recruiter in my field that it is customary to include hobbies on a CV (even for senior roles). I’ve done this, and recently shared my CV with a senior third person for some constructive feedback, who said that my CV looks excellent, but my hobbies make me look rather dull…. Unfortunately, I agree – I am not a dull person, but I think my hobbies make me come across this way. I have listed golf, travel, wine (collecting), and art (with a particular focus listed here – think genre of art). Does anyone have any ideas on how to spice this up a bit? These are my genuine hobbies…..

    1. F*ck that person? Who gets to decide what hobbies are and aren’t cool. In my past few interviews (which lead to offers) I’ve discussed my ‘boring’ hobbies and it has been fine, I think interviewers want to see you’re passionate and well rounded, pretending to care about something for the sake of looking interesting will be really obvious if an interviewer asks anything beyond a surface level question.

    2. Put down your specialties within those hobbies – drinking wine from the X region, perfecting my swing, traveling to Northern European countries.

      1. Is this advice meant for the US/Canada or for Europe? I think the answers may differ drastically.

    3. Doesn’t sound dull to me. Just be yourself. There’s nothing more phony than a hobby poser so don’t let your friend convince you to do that!

    4. Don’t have an answer to your question, sorry, but this worries me as far as looking for future jobs. I have a toddler and one on the way, and basically zero hobbies. So people are getting dinged now for being dull? What a load of bs.

      1. In my experience people are looking for a point of conversation during your interview – they want to gauge personality fit. So if reading is your ‘hobby’ they may ask what you’ve read recently, or for cooking if you have a favorite dish to make. I truly don’t think a lack of ‘fun’ hobbies can make or break you after a certain point in your career. That being said (in finance at least) there was a strong preference to list some sort of ‘networking’ sport – golf (preferred) or tennis (second one I saw frequently). Listing sailing or rowing was also a wasp-y nudge nudge sort of signifier. A friend who was a tennis pro/instructor in college absolutely got a lot of questions/interest about his tennis game.

        1. Golf, tennis or sailing as a “nudge nudge qualifier” is the whole problem here. Way to keep recruiting same-same.

          1. It is and it isn’t. I took up golf to help blend in and devoted a ton of time and energy to getting to be a halfway OK player (so OK on captain’s choice; not your choice for a pro-am tournament). I’m from trailers and the people country music songs are about. I am not going to omit it from my resume. In the SEUS, a lot of poorer people play on public courses — I had previously never thought that was possible but it actually is.

      2. What would your answer be if an interviewer asked at the end of an interview “What do you like to do in your free time?” I don’t think it needs to be some fascinating, unique hobby, but you should have an answer.

    5. I don’t know, but I’d be curious to hear other ideas. I *think* I’m not terribly boring — I’m well traveled, well read, cook interesting food when I have time, and work on interesting projects all over the world. However, I have little kids and haven’t traveled much on vacations in recent years, nor do I spend much time reading or cooking really (because of big job + little kids). My weekend activities are mostly short hikes with my kids or children’s soccer games, neither of which make me sound particularly interesting, and I’m not about to start putting kid-related stuff on my resume.

    6. I read this as for the European market, where I assume the advice is different, but in the US market, including hobbies on a resume would be a bit odd. If this is the US, I’d remove them entirely.

      1. In the US, I would not put hobbies unless they were truly outstanding (competed in the Olympics, etc). Why do I care if a candidate likes to golf or drink certain wines? I can figure out from talking to her if she’s an interesting person to talk to.

    7. 1) I find this so toxic. It feels like it could easily feed into all kinds of prejudices if people intuit people’s background or even their disability status from their hobbies.

      2) To me reading this right now, they’re boring because they’re not detailed enough. Californian wine? Spanish wine? Travel where? The art genre probably helps.

    8. Are you in the US or elsewhere? In the US, a CV is an extensive document typically used by academics. I have never seen hobbies listed on one. For resumes, I haven’t heard anyone advise putting hobbies on a resume in the past 20 years, with the exception of volunteer work that is substantive and relevant to the position for which you are applying.

      2. What odd advice, why would you put hobbies on the resume itself? I get what other posters are saying about some fields wanting to see “networking hobbies” like golf, but I don’t know that I’ve ever listed a hobby on my resume. Why would a recruiter or interviewer care what I do when I’m not at work? And if those activities obviously don’t enhance my ability to do my work? Or is this like in software development where your “hobby” is supposed to be more coding at all hours of the day and night? And if two people assessing a job can’t figure out how to talk to each other for 30-60 minutes, maybe it’s not the right for either party? The whole thing is really weird to me, and I’ve worked in the US South and US West Coast.

        1. It’s pretty common among the finance resumes I review. MidAtl / Northeast hiring.

        2. I keep a couple of outlier hobbies / accomplishments on my resume because they are easy to talk about, you’d never guess from looking at me, and easily relatable to skills necessary in my field. It’s pretty normal in my field to include some “interests.”

      3. Hi all, thanks for the feedback. I’m not based in the US so this is european advice. I think I mean a resume based on what you are saying!

    10. I think it’s interesting when people go into more detail about focused pursuits. Eg. If you enjoy travel, what do you enjoy about traveling? Visiting historic sites? Taking cooking classes to learn about the local cuisine? Learning about local cultural practices? Likewise, cooking as a hobby is fine, but cooking your way through Six Seasons or Salt Fat Acid Heat – now that’s something an interviewer can make more conversation about. But as an interviewer I would not ding anyone for not detailing it on their CV.

    11. Agreed. Your hobbies are alot more extensive then mine, but I just question why you would even put hobbies there! After all, you are there to get a job and work and hopefully work hard enough to be promoted. In my view, I would want a person dedicated to the subject matter. Wine collecting? Does this mean you don’t open the bottles? Or does it mean you keep the bottles after drinking the wine? Either way, it would not score brownie points with me as you could, rightly or wrongly, be viewed as a drinker. If I need work done for the morning, it would not be pleasing to discover you had decided to open a bottle with your freinds and got to hungover to do the work assignment for me. On the other hand, golf is good (if your cleints play golf), travel (generally OK, especially in the pandemic if you are able to get on a plane and go); and art is good (I love the Met and the Mooma museums in NYC). I would NOT spice it up any further, but I would drop the wine, and put in stamp or coin collecting, which is much more acceptable to me. Ultimately, it is your call.

    12. So as someone who interviews candidates frequently, I don’t care if you have (1) “dull” or generic hobbies or (2) zero hobbies listed. I only care if we start talking about them and you’ve clearly embellished A LOT, because now I question your integrity. Example: someone put down a somewhat-obscure sport as a hobby – and as it turns out, this is a sport I’m VERY involved in/proficient at. When we started discussing it, it turns out that they’d done it twice in the fairly-distant past (and not “done it twice” like ran two marathons, but “done it twice” like taken two lessons/classes). It’d be like writing “cooking” when what you meant is you made lasagna once, burgers once, but otherwise eat takeout every night.

      OP – i think your hobbies are all fine as long as they’re accurate!

      1. Funny aside about how hobbies can mean VERY different thing to different people- I enjoy rowing on an erg as my main form of cardio/go to (or used to) a niche rowing gym. I mentioned that I enjoyed rowing to a client who was an open water rower (think top of the Charles/rowed in college in ‘Cambridge’ etc.). It was a bit awkward when I had to explain that no, I don’t have opinions on sculls, but I was happy to discuss form/split times/etc.

    13. I really don’t think you have to put hobbies on your CV. I’d swap that for being generally engaging and personable during the interview.

    14. I agree with others that you should very definitely leave your hobbies off of your resume if you are in the US.

        1. Yes. When I see hobbies on a resume, I assume that the candidate is inexperienced and/or clueless. It’s a mark against them that they then must overcome in the interview.

      2. Interesting, I still see this a lot in the legal industry! But leaving them off would definitely *not* hurt.

        1. I put “hobbies” on to the extent that they translate into “good things” for hiring: involved enough in non-profits that I am on the Board of Directors; involved in law and policy groups at a relatively high level; involved with my alma mater at a relatively high level. It shows that I am a job candidate whose judgement is respected by people around her, has a LOT of energy, and has upward potential.

          My actual hobby is running and I’m reasonably good at it. I talk about that in interviews: people who have the dedication to train for a marathon tend to, on the whole, not be lazy.

        2. Law schools tell students to put them on, because it gives people something to talk about at OCI and callbacks. Ive never seen an experienced candidate list them.

  2. Do we think the length on these is still current, or does it look a bit dated?

    1. Dated, current pants have elastic ankles and are made of fleece or terry cloth.

      2. +1M

        I think if you have a good ankle game, these pants will always look good on you.

    2. Honestly, I’m not planning on buying any work clothes until at LEAST next summer? Or whenever there is a vaccine and we go back into the office (we are in the Northeast so I expect we won’t make people come back to the office full time for a long time). By then I think there will be a lot more wide leg pants – I saw many of those in my fall Vogue and Elle.

      1. My issue with wide-leg pants is that they either need to be cropped or you need to wear heels. Heels s*ck. And wide + cropped can easily veer into campy gaucho / bad coulotte (cannot even spell that word) territory or made you look extra wide + stumpy.

      2. +1 – probably even longer than that, too since I bought a bunch of things in Jan/Feb that basically still have tags on them. I also think it will be interesting to see if work fashion skews dressier/formal after a year plus of sweats or stays casual. Either way, not what I need to spend money on these days.

    3. They also make these in a full length, which I LOVE. I wear them in winter with brogues or I’m summer with ballet flats. Add a tweed blazer, perfect conference outfit.
      (But yes, I’m not planning to buy any new smart clothes until at least next summer).

      1. I have these pants in the full length, Kelly Green, and love them. They are surprising versatile, wash and wear well. I’m sure I bought them on sale or used a coupon code because $90 seems high so keep that in mind.

        1. I have them in black and agree that they wash and wear really well – think I paid about £50 through a combination of vouchers and codes.

      2. Can I ask what size you are? I have always been tempted by these pants, but I’m a size 12 with really muscular thighs and always worried that they won’t look that great (most skinny style pants don’t on me – I need straight leg at least).

        1. Similar to you – I have been between a US 12 and 14 for most of the last few years, muscular thighs and calves and very hippy. These are the only smart trousers that have ever looked good on me. They’re more straight leg than they are skinny, but I find they just look neat and tidy – and at least in the black that means they just kind of fade into the background.

        2. I’m a 14/16, with thighs and booty for days (former crossfitter) and these work for me.

    4. I am team ankle pants because as someone who is 5’4” and all torso, I have to get all pants shortened. Ankle pants solve that issue. I don’t think they are dated or not-dated – they just are, IMO.

    6. I have the inseam of a toddler. If the pants aren’t trailing on the ground behind me, I take it as a win.

    7. I am looking at the wide legs and flare trouser pants out now thinking about the 3″ heels I used to have to hobble around in wearing those pants when I was 25, and…Well, I’m 40 now and not about that life anymore.

      But this COVID weight is making me want to join a gym again, so that might make me feel like I’m 25 and I could change my mind…

    8. I don’t like the look of 7/8ths pants but I have enjoyed them being in style because they look full length on me without tailoring.

  3. I’m seeing so many encouraging pro-Biden social media posts from people I know, mostly coworkers, who didn’t vote in 2016 and one who definitely told me she voted for trump. I’m not in a swing state but I think it’s great. Really. And part of me wants to know jump through the screen and demand to know what in the world these people were thinking four years ago.

    1. Same. People from the very Republican (still holding on to that ‘Party of Lincoln’ identity) area where I went to High School are either posting straight out Pro-Biden (which is… shocking, TBH) or even just ‘how HOW can you still vote for Trump.’

      I’m still so nervous… I remember being in my coworker’s office right after the World Series in 2016 and he was looking at 538. I remember him saying, ‘You know, Trump has the same chances of winning right now as the Cubs did going into the World Series… You don’t think…’

      1. I won’t breathe easy until he’s inaugurated. I think it’s almost certain at this point that Biden will win the popular vote but I think there’s a very good chance he’ll either 1) lose the electoral college (according to 538, a Democrat has to win the popular vote by 4+ points to have a good chance in the electoral college, which is insane) or 2) win the electoral college narrowly and Trump will challenge the results. Trump and many Republicans in Congress have said the Supreme Court will decide the election, which is a terrifying prospect, especially with Amy Coney Barrett there – they can overrule a lower court.

        1. I won’t breathe easy until he’s out of the White House. I’m not even sure an inauguration ceremony indicates Trump won’t cause trouble.

      2. Also nervous but have been very comforted to see in my North Shore suburb of Chicago all the Biden-Harris signs at the $5M homes. I commented the other day that I was surprised we hadn’t seen a single Trump sign on our daily walks. I grew up in these suburbs, where everyone’s parents were Reagan Republicans who voted for Bush so I don’t think the suburban scare tactic is working — at least in these parts. I’ve even been surprised that my husband’s family from the St. Louis area are reporting similar signs, even among those that voted for Trump in 2016. But I’m still nervous, so I channel it into letter-writing to voters and doing what I was taught polite ladies do not do – talk about politics, race, inequality, etc.

    2. That’s great. I don’t know any Trump voter who is not voting for him again (if anything the Trump voters seem more enthusiastic than they were in 2016) but I do know a couple people who didn’t vote or voted Jill Stein (sigh) who are planning to vote Biden this time.

    3. Everyone from NY/NJ/PA who had even the remotest connection to either finance/banking or commercial real estate tried to tell the people in the Midwest and South that DJT was a con man 4 years ago. And they didn’t listen. It was so infuriating then, and it’s infuriating now to see the mea culpas (“if I’d only known!”). I hope those who voted DJT and now will vote Biden ARE ashamed of themselves.

      1. I know someone who voted for Trump in 2016 and is pretty much convinced to vote for Biden, but the only thing that is keeping her from 100% being convinced is statements like your last sentence. The best way to convince undecided voters it NOT to tell them how horrible of a person they are, or call names. Shouldn’t you be happy that they are changing their mind, so it helps Biden win?

          2. +1 there are a lot of prideful people who voted for trump. Telling them how awful they are just puts them on the defensive and dig in. Not a good way to sway people. Be silently angry but keep your eye on the prize – the goal is to vote this guy out of office, not be justified in shouting I told you so. Do whatever you can to convince people to vote Biden.

        2. I never said I was going to TELL them they should be ashamed! Of course I’d welcome them on board. But those would be my private thoughts.

          1. There are also tons of blue collar workers nationwide who got shortchanged by all of Trumps bankruptcies and negotiations when they didn’t get paid … who warned us. There are the victims of “Trump University” who also warned us. What do you think about them vs the people you indicated?

          2. I am actually related to blue collar workers who got stiffed by Trump (related to work at the AC casinos). I agree that they tried to tell the rest of the country and the rest of the country didn’t listen.

      2. Oh, F off with your regionalist B.S. This is like the people who say “I know what is really happening in D.C. because I grew up in Rockville” but add to that “and people from the South and Midwest are all ignorant and backwards and I know this because of my life experience in the Northeast.”

        1. Hey Anonymous? I’ve lived in the Midwest (Chicago and environs) for over 30 years.

          2. +1 to the anon. Thank you for voting. & I acknowledge the growth you’ve had from previous generations/ some of your community based on your previous comments. However, kindly, you do still have more work to do & I hope you’re open to that. I wrote above about some of the other groups who also warned us. Think about it.

        2. Uh, greetings from the rural SEUS, from a native southerner. I am utterly surrounded by trumpsters. They love him. They think he did great in the debate. They think he is great every day. They despise democrats. They despise people of color. They despise LBGQT people. They’re not too keen on women in positions of power either. When you look like them, and have the same accent as them, they don’t bother holding their words. I have heard it all. And yes, I think they are ignorant, ugly people, and “they”in this case is the majority of people in my work and personal life. I’m tied to a job that doesn’t travel well and tied to a close relative with a degenerative disease, otherwise I would get the f*ck away from here. It’s not everybody but it’s a critical mass and then some. And it’s horrible to be around it all the time, but it’s even more horrible to truly know that that is how all these people are, and that they think that they are great, and they think they are “good Christian people”. It makes me sick.

      3. You forget how HORRIBLE Hillary was. How very dare she!!! (Lock! Her! Up!)

        ::eyeroll::

      4. This strikes me as absurd, LaurenB.

        My dad, who is a commercial real estate broker in NY ( but by no means a fancy hotshot) once pitched a building to trump in the 1980s. In less a minute, my dad was convinced trump was the biggest jerk he’d ever dealt with. Does that mean 90% of my dad’s buddies (also in real estate and finance) didn’t vote for this guy? No, they definitely did!

        How much time have you spent on the east coast? From where I sit, in a wealthy suburb of nyc, there’s plenty of trump voters in these fields.

        1. CRE finance broker here in the northeast. I work at a major firm. Lots o’ people here still supporting Trump even this go-round.

      5. Hiiiiii, dropping in here from the Midwest (Chicago, specifically) to let you know that voting affiliation maps far more closely to rural/suburban/urban and racial demographics than it does to regions. Rural New York and California have plenty of Trumpers.

        1. THANK YOU! I’m in a red Midwest state, but in our large capital city is very blue and I know basically nobody locally who supports Trump and never see Trump signs unless I’m driving on the interstate by the cornfields. My in-laws are in a less populated part of Massachusetts and there are multiple Trump yard signs in their cul-de-sac. The state is blue because Boston is blue and most of the population lives there, but you can find plenty of Republican voters in the rural parts of ANY state, including the deepest darkest blue ones. And sometimes even in the not-so-rural-parts! My best friend is in the densely populated Bay Area of dark blue California and her Asian-American boss is a Trump supporter.
          I’m so over of LaurenB’s snobby attitudes about the Midwest and South.

          1. Yup. I remember in grad school a new acquaintance who grew up in the Boston suburbs commented that all of my friends must be married with kids (I was 27). I said no, and I likely had more culturally in common with someone who grew up around Boston than I did my cousins who grew up in rural Illinois.

          3. I live in the Midwest. I married a man from the Midwest. My children were born and live in the Midwest. You’re probably right that it’s urban vs rural.

    4. I hope your bubble is more representative than mine! Most people I know live in swing states, and I’m disappointed to see how many Republicans who opposed Trump in 2016 have come around and support him now. The “never Trump” Republicans I know are also “never Democrat.” I can only hope he’s lost more support than he’s gained, but he’s gained a lot of support among people I know.

      2. That is an outlier from the analysis I’ve read. Trump has lost supporters from his 2016 crowd, and Biden has gained votes from some former Trump voters, independents, and nonvoters from 2016.

        1. I hope so. I feel like I don’t know what to believe after what happened last time. And I can easily imagine people lying when asked.

        2. Take a look at a collection of current polling numbers from today, including the column on the right that shows the change since 2016. The gains virtually all go to Dems:

    5. Beyond voters, I want to see Twitter stop publishing voter intimidation tweets from Trump. They and Facebook can f*ck off forever as far as I’m concerned.

      1. +1 I heard an interview on NPR yesterday with Sheryl Sandberg, and she was asked about the DJT, Jr. ad where he’s calling for an “army” of supporters to show up at the polls to prevent voter fraud. She said FB didn’t remove it because he wasn’t actually calling for violence, by the term “army” he just meant a big group of DJT supporters, etc. Oh, come on FB. Do better.

        1. This is why I refuse to use it anymore. Between stuff like this and promoting hate speech during times of civil unrest in Myanmar, Ethiopia, and elsewhere, Facebook is an active force for destruction of human rights and democracy. It also just plain sucks.

          1. Boycotting Facebook makes sense to me, but it feels strange to say it’s a force for the destruction of democracy when so much of the problem with it is that people can post whatever they want?

          2. Anon at 10:59, people wouldn’t be able to post whatever they want on Facebook unless Facebook allowed it. I have so much anger for social media companies for ignoring this beast and pretending to be neutral. They have enabled racists and conspiracy theories to dominate dialogue around the world. They’re our number threat to human rights and democracy around the world.

          3. I guess to me Facebook seems quite democratic… a platform where people say whatever they want that isn’t actually illegal, and other people promote it or block it as they please.

          4. Facebooks algorithms are far from democratic. You could say it’s democratic in the sense that yes anyone can post but part of the danger of facebook is that people think it treats all posts as equal, it does not

          5. Facebook also keeps changing the goalposts on hate speech so Trump can continue to say whatever. It’s despicable. Should we expect anything better from the creator of FaceMash, though? Entitled misogynistic white boy stole someone else’s idea and became rich – is it any wonder he’s showing his true colors as an assh*le?

          1. Ha yeah, I can’t believe I read that drivel and thought it meant anything. She’s a corporate shill who pretends to be a do-gooder – the very worst kind. I did feel awful for her when her husband died suddenly, though.

          2. +1000 re Sandberg, the damaging effects of Facebook and their worthless limpid response to disinformation, hate speech, etc. Before Facebook, the neo-Nazis and ultra-right-wingers couldn’t organize effectively. Now they can. Before Facebook, troll farms of Russians posing as Americans couldn’t influence unsuspecting American voters and potential violent actors. Now they can. Before Facebook, vulnerable people weren’t exclusively fed conspiracy theories that with each scroll, entrenched their nonsensical, fringe but now becoming legitimate (in the sense of infiltrating government) views. Now they are.
            Ugh.

    6. I don’t doubt that, but it also seems to be the only socially-acceptable message to say. I am sure that there there is also a huge undercount of closeted Trump voters (like he won my state’s primary and won in my deep-blue county back when more palatable alternatives were still in the race (and they didn’t really split the vote that could have put one of them over the top; he won by quite a margin)).

    7. I don’t know about everyone else, but I thought I didn’t like my choices for last election, and I REALLY don’t like my choices now. This current environment we’re in…esp living in NY…makes me very concerned for my future. As in, I don’t see one.

      1. You have a choice between a crappy peanut butter sandwich or a turd sandwich. One choice is objectively better, even if it isn’t ideal.

        1. I thought this said pb sandwich vs tuna sandwich and was like I’m not sure which one is considered worse?

        2. Yes exactly. It’s like that David Sedaris essay where he likens the undecided voter to a passenger on an airplane who asks “Well, how is the chicken prepared?” when the flight attendant asks if he wants the chicken or a platter of sh1t with broken glass in it. Maybe Joe Biden is very bland, unsalted chicken, even gross overcooked rubbery chicken, but he’s not sh1t with broken glass in it. How is this even a question?!

          1. Love that piece, I shared the link to it yesterday! I remember reading it in 2008 and thinking what a crazy choice McCain/Palin were. THOSE WERE THE DAYS.

  4. Has anyone tried the caraa facemasks? Now that it’s colder I need a facemask that has a nose wire to avoid glasses fogging. I prefer my facemasks pleated, more tightly fitted, and three layers. The caraa looks like a potentially good option but I haven’t seen anyone mention them.

    1. I HATED mine truthfully. They stretched out quickly and smell weird. Do not get them.

    2. For a hot minute I read your first sentence and thought it was about beauty product facemasks. Ah, BeforeTimes.

    3. Counter point – these are my family’s favorite masks.

      Did not notice a smell, wash well, enjoy the nose wire, breathable, and can fit a variety of face sizes well.

  5. Has anyone gone off hormonal birth control and experienced weight gain?

    I forgot to order my prescription refill on time and have been off the pill for 2 weeks as a result. I’m up 8 lbs from my normal weight (in TWO weeks!) despite zero changes to my diet or exercise habits. I have noticed an increase in my s3x drive along with br3ast tenderness so I hope my hormones are just figuring their sh1t out & things will return to normal soon.

    Curious if any others have been through this, as weight loss seems to be a far more common outcome of stopping the pill.

    1. Quite the opposite — I gain 5-10 pounds each time I go on the pill and have to fight like hell to get back to having my clothes fit.

      1. Yeah Google agrees this is the norm. So hard to find answers when you’re an oddball!

    2. Yes, I have. A lot of hormonal birth control is a diuretic so you may just be holding water weight that before your body forced out.

    3. Not me! I have quit BC twice. The first time I lost 20 lbs and the second time I lost 10 lbs, both times returning to my pre-BC weight.

    4. it’s only been two weeks, i wouldn’t worry. it takes a long time for the body to adjust to a hormonal change and this is likely water weight.

  6. FYI – Bloomingdales friends and family started today and there are some absolute STEALS on the ‘bloomingdales’ line of fine jewelry. Great time to start Christmas shopping (I know, I know, but delivery is still a mess for us so I’m extra cautious about buying early this year).

  7. A friend (late 20s) just texted me this meandering message about her life plans and then added how “people in their 30s become less adventurous” and that they get “insecure and set in their ways” and “think enjoying life is only for people in their 20s.” As a 30-something who has become dramatically more adventurous and self-confident in recent years, I could only laugh and wonder why on earth she thinks that. I know I’ve seen posts here from women who are either looking forward to their 30s or so glad they’re in their 30s and I have to agree – it’s honestly baffling why this friend is coming at this from the completely opposite direction. I freaking love my 30s! I’ve done SO many great adventures (backpacking! rafting! rock climbing! I’ve even tried new quiet hobbies at home!), most of which I did not do in my 20s, and I’m confident enough to say no to things I don’t want to do, which again, I couldn’t do well in my 20s. Quite a few of my friends seem to be the same, even with kids in the picture. I guess people’s experiences really can be polar opposites. Anyway, thought some of you might find this interesting and I’d love to hear if you think your 30s are/were “adventurous.”

    1. I think it all depends on how health is holding up. A lot of people I know started dealing with prediabetes, mental health issues, autoimmune disease, or some other chronic illness in their 30s, and I think they just feel sick and tired. The people I know who still feel fine are actually more active than they were in their 20s because they can afford more.

      1. Actually, I’m OP and was diagnosed with two chronic autoimmune conditions in my late 20s and they haven’t stopped me – I’m very, very lucky in that respect since I do know people who ended up with much less manageable conditions. I also know just a few who are keeping things up like me, but medical problems definitely make adventures less spontaneous/more in need of planning than before.

        1. I was thinking I should have said “health and healthcare”! Timely diagnosis and treatment definitely make a difference with a lot of conditions (others I know are just harder to manage).

    2. I’m one of the people who said I absolutely love my 30s and I feel more confident and secure in my 30s, but I would also say they’re less adventurous than my 20s. I have a kid now, and while I still travel (in non-pandemic times) it’s very different. I can’t just pick up and go on a moments notice, I have to make sure wherever I’m going has the appropriate facilities for my kid, there are some destinations that are off-limits or at least feel off-limits to me (you do you, but I’m not trekking to Everest base camp with a toddler), etc. Of course not everyone has kids in their late 20s or 30s, but many women do, and I think there’s truth to the generalization that kids at least temporarily make you less adventurous.

      1. This describes me as well. But the great thing is that IDAF if someone thinks my life is interesting or adventurous. I derive a lot of joy from having drinks with my friends in my suburban backyard while our kids play. Pre-pandemic, I went a large group trip to Disney World (two couples + kids) and it was the best vacation of my entire life.

        That said, this year was going to be the year I did more trips without kids. In fact, I was going to treat myself to a solo trip to celebrate the end of my pregnancy/nursing phase. Oh well.

        1. March 2020 was also going to be my first ever post-kid couples’ trip with my husband. Now we’re hoping we can go away for our 10 year anniversary in late 2022, but that’s 2.5 whole years later! Bleh.

      2. Also fwiw I got diagnosed with an autoimmune disease at 33 but that has absolutely nothing to do with my adventurousness or lack thereof. It’s due to parenthood and also just changing interests like No Face said. Like even if I didn’t have a kid I doubt I would be going out partying all the time.

    3. I’m in my early 30s, definitely set in my ways, but also more confident and adventurous because I finally have the money to do all the things! Is your friend the type who’s too self-conscious to do stuff on her own? I’m the outlier in my friend group because I’m single and childree but I haven’t let that stop me — I can see how someone may struggle with that though.

      1. Yeah, I definitely think that could be part of it. I know that she is a little self-conscious about being single and having a string of bad dates recently so I wonder if part of this is due to that. It’s definitely much easier to be adventurous when you have a two income household.

        1. She might also be feeling down about it being difficult to find friends to do stuff with. If she’s single and many of her friends are partnered (esp if they have kids) she may have a hard time finding people for adventures. I was single in my late 20s when most friends were partnered and starting to have kids and it was a huge shift in my social life. Yeah, I knew I could do things by myself– and I did– but it’s just not the same as having a partner or friends to share the experiences with.

        2. She might also be dating men who are a little older and are living a stagnant bachelor lifestyle. I’m 32, single and doing and planning more than ever, even with COVID. I was starting to date someone earlier this summer who’s just over 40 and while he has one very active hobby that we share, I couldn’t stand the rest of his lifestyle so I realized it was going to be a long-term friends thing and not a relationship.

    4. Your 30s can be less adventurous not because you become less adventurous, but because for a lot of people it’s the decade of marriage/serious long term relationships, kids, finding your career and delving deep into it. These are huge time sucks. But also, I think a lot of us feel very comfortable saying no to adventurous things we used to try but don’t sound fun – we tried it and don’t like it. We use our limited time more wisely. In your 20s you try a lot of random things, sometimes just to hang out with friends. If you have the time and the funds to do something in your 30s, you will find a way to do it.

      And let’s be honest, some people use “fun and adventurous” as a synonym for “you don’t go out drinking and to brunch on a moment’s notice”, so they are really the non-adventurous ones.

      1. Weekends no longer end with drunken vomiting on a stranger’s lawn. And there is no suspense: you know who you’re going home with when you go out drinking.

        1. I do not miss this part of my 20s at all. I do way more different types of activities now than I did in my 20s. My 20s was a lot of partying.

    5. Might be my friend circle, but the ones who married late 20s/early 30s are now all settling down and having kids and being “set in their ways” in their 30s BUT they also say they’re enjoying life more, just differently with kids. That being said, the friends who ended relationships in their early 30s were all having more adventurous life and enjoying life way more being single in their 30s than being scared of doing stuff alone in their 20s (at least pre-pandemic).

      1. I don’t understand why some people automatically think settling down (however that looks) means that you’re not enjoying life. For me, settling down includes focusing on the things I love and not just the things I feel like I should do or obsessing over the career paths I did or didn’t take. It gives me so much more room to spend true quality time with both my loved ones and myself instead of in endless networking meetings or happy hours with coworkers I barely know. Even my adventures have become more focused/fun because I have developed greater skills over time!

    6. I think parental money might make a big difference here. I’m waaaay more adventurous in my 30s because I am more secure. In my 20s I was scrambling to establish myself, work multiple jobs/side-hustles, pay loans, figure out being a working professional. I didn’t have the time or money for adventure (it requires one of both of those things!)

        1. I never have $ and time at the *same* time. Also in my 20s, neither did my friends, and had I just put a week in Paris on my credit card, it could have been awesome, but I can’t do a week with no one to talk to at 21 meals in a row. I don’t speak much French, so the idea that I have a “Before Sunrise” adventure is needed and counting on it is laughable.

    7. I think there are two camps of adventurous people in your 20s – the ones that try different things for fun with their friends, like going out on a boat during a bachelorette party, and the ones who truly have a passion for an adventurous hobby, like climbing every weekend or skiing all winter. The former seems more likely to dump the adventure a bit when kids enter the picture because it was never really a passion. The latter keeps it up, maybe a bit different than before, but I’m thinking of a couple I know that has always loved adventure travel and kept things going after the birth of their first kid. The second kid was born in March 2020 so not so much travel now…

      1. I agree with this. There’s definitely a difference between trying new adventurous things randomly and having a real passion for an adventurous hobby.

      2. Hmm. To your point, two friends of mine who favored “adventurous” hobbies (skiing and kitesurfing, respectively) suffered life altering injuries in their early thirties. Losing use of a limb really curtails a lot of one’s capacity for “adventure.”

        1. Not necessarily. That’s so awful that your friends suffered injuries, but there are certainly plenty of people who have terrible accidents and go on to accomplish even more of their goals in their sports/hobbies. Just look at Bethany Hamilton or Aron Ralston, both of whom lost arms, and I know Bethany was mentored by a fellow shark attack survivor who lost his leg and continued surfing (or maybe bodyboarding, not sure). There is actually more support than ever for adaptive athletes.

        2. Life altering injuries are an outlier, and that’s speaking as someone that participates in multiple “adventurous” hobbies (skiing, horseback riding, rock climbing). Yes, they happen, but they also happen in car accidents or crossing the street. The majority of people get less adventurous with age for other, unrelated reasons (e.g. having a family and other responsibilities, as many have pointed out).

          1. Are you in your 30s yet? I’ve seen your posts on some of your hobbies before and I’m curious what age you are! If you’re in your 30s, that’s yet another data point that adventure doesn’t stop on your 30th birthday.

          2. I’m 36! And I still outski my 29yo ski patroller brother, much to his chagrin. :) I picked up rock climbing at 33, started trad climbing this year – there’s totally no age limit on this. I know plenty of women totally crushing in their 30s, 40s, and beyond – including a friend of mine who started climbing in her 40s a few years ago when her daughter joined the kids team, and can now climb like 5.11 outside. I promise, there’s no switch that flips at midnight on your 30th birthday that turns you boring!

          3. Woohoo! That’s awesome. I’m OP and I started backcountry skiing at 29, horseback riding (again) at 30, rafting at 30, backpacking at 29, and so much else. It only gets better.

    8. Could it be because people’s lives often become more established by the time they’re in their 30s? People often have more significant and unavoidable responsibilities — children, jobs they are taking more seriously and/or which are more demanding, mortgages, aging parents… I don’t think I’d choose “insecure” as the word to describe it. But these obligations really do shape how people’s daily life pans out. Perhaps cautions? You have to take into these obligations into consideration when you plan. You can’t go for a spontaneous night out with kids. You can’t get as wild as you used to on a Thursday if you have kids who will wake up at 6 and a job that demands real brain work. I can’t even do that anymore and I don’t have kids — I’m not going to drink a bottle of wine with someone on a Tuesday anymore because I’m not confident that my brain will work well enough the next day for me to kick butt at a hearing I’m attending. In law school, sure! It’s just class. Yeah, you may get to go on a cool back packing trip but if you’ve got kids that’s going to be a once a year thing (unless you’re taking the kid, which is a new set of challenges and limitations). You’re not going to be taking spontaneous, long trips with friends like you could have done before kids.

      I’m 34 and there has definitely been a shift towards a less spontaneous, more organized and planned life out of necessity. Yes, in many ways we are all more confident and still “having adventures,” but I guess it just depends on what you call an “adventure” and “confidence.”

      Maybe you should have a conversation with your friend and ask her what she means. You didn’t give a lot of details so it’s hard to judge. But I bet if you dug a little deeper it would be less baffling.

    9. Hahahahaha please just tell her not to be rude. My 20s were all about school and starting a career. In my30s I’ve had the time and money for adventuring.

      1. Ha yeah, I did actually find it a bit rude, but I think she’s just a bit insecure. That made it even harder to relate because my insecurity basically disappeared in my late 20s!

        1. I think I’ve somehow become much more insecure in my late 20s. Before this I did my thing and did not really care what others thought, but now I’ve suddenly become really aware that I’m single, or that I’m currently living a more nomadic lifestyle, etc, and that other people may look down on that. Or maybe its the pandemic, because this really didn’t start until maybe 4 months ago.

      2. +1000 This just screams insecurity. I’ve done way more in my 30s because being adventurous is expensive. If you want your 30s to be adventurous, then they will be. If you want to settle down, that’s fine too – but it’s not an inherent function of being in your 30s, it’s what personal choices you make.

      3. Agree your friend is both rude and incredibly short-sighted. My 30s were all about parenting my son and making partner at my law firm. But I am rocking the adventures in my 60s!

    10. I think a lot of people become boring when they get married and have kids – it’s a slog with work, childcare, chores, and people seem to sit down and watch tv a lot. With a small child I don’t do a lot of the things I used to, like go on climbing trips or take spontaneous trips at the last minute.

    11. I’m in my mid/late 20s and looking forward to my 30s. I’ve spent the years since college setting myself up to have financial options and an interesting career and I want to enjoy that to the full.
      Part of what’s given me that perspective is Meg Jay’s The Defining Decade.

    12. I mean, I can see the kernel of truth to this because statistically people in their 30s are more likely than those in their 20s to be in a long-term relationship, to buy property, to have a stable career, and to have kids. Those life paths inherently limit your range of choices (not necessarily in a bad way, just a different one). I am better able to make confident choices in my 30s and have discovered some cool new hobbies (and can better afford them), but I’m not heading across the ocean to live in another country with $1000 to my name like I did in my early 20s.

      1. Another piece of this (this had me thinking, thank you for starting this convo!) is that your brain doesn’t finish developing until your mid to late twenties, specifically the part associated with risk-taking and long-term planning. Risk tolerance decreases naturally.

        I don’t see this as a dig at being in your 30s. I’ve loved my 30s– way less self-doubt, I don’t care much about what others (outside of the people I love) think of me, and I have some stability and a wider range of choices in certain areas of my life.

    13. ““people in their 30s become less adventurous” and that they get “insecure and set in their ways” and “think enjoying life is only for people in their 20s.””

      What she said actually almost made me laugh out loud. Being in my 20s was horrible in a lot of ways, mostly boiling down to a lot of being really poor and flailing around trying to figure out what I was going to do career-wise and then doing all the school and work to get there. And I was just really anxious about being an adult in a way that has lessened with more life experience. And immature in my marriage in a way that was really not super great. If enjoying life is only for people in their 20s I must have missed the memo, because I’ve enjoyed my 30s WAY more so far.

      I wonder if she is confusing the concept of being “spontaneous” with being “adventurous”. I now have the money to be as adventurous as I want, but way less opportunity to be spontaneous. I think that is the case with a lot of adults, especially in your 30s when you likely have young or school-aged children or are in a point in your career where you need to be really “on”.

      1. This. Adventurous and spontaneous are too different things. In fact, the most adventurous things are not spontaneous at all. Ain’t nobody climbing Kilimanjaro spontaneously.

    14. Thanks all, super interesting discussion. I actually got a follow-up text from said friend (after I said I couldn’t relate to what she said at all but that everyone is different) and she reported that a 30-something friend of hers went to brunch, was surrounded by 20-somethings, and concluded she was “too old to brunch.” I’m even more baffled than before, honestly. Is this friend really in her 30s if she felt self-conscious while eating food?! I also think my friend was likely thinking more of “social activities” rather than what I would call “adventure” – perhaps that’s the source of our diametrically opposite perspectives.

      Ultimately, I think she is dealing with some of her own insecurities right now, which I’m sure the pandemic hasn’t helped, and that she may have other friends that are less available while dealing with family/childcare/less spontaneity than before. I think CPA Lady’s point about the difference between spontaneity and adventure is spot-on.

      1. I would just take that comment as her saying she wasn’t into whatever that crowd was. It’s not unusual for people at different life stages to feel a disconnect in hanging out. Brunch in my 20s started later and involved wayyyy more drinks than I’m interested in these days, even if I still like brunch.

        1. this illustrates 30s vs 20s very well, ha – I am in my late 30s and definitely avoid the Party Brunch restaurants because I just want to enjoy my champagne or rose over nice conversation with one friend, not be surrounded by groups of 10 with handles of vodka on the table. Some brunch destinations lean way more to the former than the latter…

        2. I distinctly remember my brother and his wife coming to stay with us for the weekend when my son was very small. We were up early (baby) and went to a local bakery for breakfast at 8 or so (late for us!!). He asked where a good brunch place in our new neighborhood was. I just looked at him blankly because 11am=nap time, not get blitzed on mimosas time and identifying a good brunch place was so far outside my sphere at that point in my life. I DID know where the local family pancake joint was – they had sticky tables, kids TV on constantly, and waitresses that called everyone hun and served good strong coffee to the tired parents rolling in at 6:30am. I don’t think that was his scene. Priorities man.

      2. Yeah… I’m in my 30s, and I’m too old for the brunches I had in my 20s in NYC. Those brunches were all-day drinking affairs, and we stumbled home at 4 pm to curl up and watch TV for the rest of the day. Now, brunch is me making pancakes for my kid, who, having requested pancakes, will tell me he hates pancakes now. I’m too old for that, too, but it is what it is.

        1. Yeah… I’m 33, don’t even have kids, but I still don’t feel like I can “afford” to lose a whole day to drinking and then laying around in a haze. Once in a while? Maybe. But regularly? Nah. The tradeoffs aren’t worth it. I need to protect my sleep so I feel good, eat well so I feel good, stay hydrated so I feel good, avoid being hung over, protect my ability to get to my work outs/yoga, protect my ability to do the errands and hobbies I need to get done on the weekends. Drinking even a little too much zaps my energy to do life. Weekend time is precious now– I bristle at the idea of spending any of it hungover or aimlessly drinking.

      3. That additional context makes me smile. I remember thinking like that. Your late 20s is a weird, hard time in some ways. People’s paths are really starting to diverge in noticeable ways and there are a lot of people starting to “settle down” in terms of family/career/big life decisions, which can really make people who aren’t on the same path feel left behind.

        There’s also a divergence I noticed around that age as far as partying. I remember thinking it was weird when my first friends said they “don’t do liquor anymore” and only drank a couple times a week. Now a lot more of my friends have cut way back on the drinking and partying. The ones that still regularly go out til like 3 am I find incredibly exhausting.

        But that doesn’t mean all the joy is gone from your life once you don’t want to get 20 year old day-drunk at brunch. It just means we find joy in other stuff. There’s a lot more out there in the world. :)

    15. Is it wrong that I read your post and thought “your friend is actually a manic pixie dream girl?”

  8. Any recommendations for an area in Kentucky or central Tennessee that would be good for a covid-safe long weekend in late November? We’re thinking of meeting a couple family members for Thanksgiving (all of us will quarantine and/or get tested both before and after the trip). Nashville is roughly the halfway point between our two households, but given that we won’t be doing any of the typical city things like dining out, going to live music venues or shopping, it seems like a waste to pay the high rental rates there. Outdoorsy stuff to do would be a big plus of course, but we want to be close enough to civilization that we can order food delivery since none of us like cooking. The Smokies were my first thought but they’re a little out of the way (east) and the people we’re meeting have been there recently.

    1. What about the Mammoth Caves area? It might be a bit further north than you want.

    2. Berea, Kentucky? Berea College has a charming hotel (the Boone Tavern) with a shockingly good fine dining restaurant. There are not many other restaurants in Berea, but there are a few, including a casual Italian’ish place on the other side of Boone Tavern. Small shopping area downtown with artisans and shops.

      1. Coming to make same suggestion! Berea has natural outdoors beauty, good food, and lots of art.

        1. I loved the weekend I spent in Berea in Oct. 2019. If you go, learn about the amazing story of Berea College. Incredible place.

    3. Liepers Fork, outside Franklin, is adorable. There are cute Air B&Bs and you’re 10 minutes from civilization.

    4. Look at the Tennessee state parks (lots of very clean, cheap cabins) or rentals near the Tennessee State parks. The Cumberland Plateau is about an hour east of Nashville (near Cookeville) and has lots of state parks (Rock Island, Fall Creek Falls, etc.). Towns like Manchester, Sparta, or Monteagle would be good jumping off points. There are a lot of cabins in the area as well. Also, this does not fit your 10 min from civilization requirement, but Natchez Trace State Park is an hour west of Nashville and is very pretty. The cabins are about 40 min from civilization though.

      Also– I live in Nashville and think your thought to not stay in town in pretty solid. There are not as many AirBnBs available as normal because a lot of people are coming and staying a month to see family/friends, which is driving up the rates. There is also just not a whole lot going on right now either unless you want to hike metro parks.

      1. Monteagle and Grundy County have a serious covid-surge going on now. Didn’t the governor just announce that they were lifting many restrictions state wide?

    5. I’ve been feeling tempted by the Breaks Interstate Park since a friend got back from a trip. I haven’t been there and don’t know what the food situation is though!

    6. If you’re up for venturing to eastern Tennessee, but Blackberry Farm is spectacular. It is about 45 minutes from Knoxville.

      1. Waaaay out of the budget for this kind of trip (I paid much less for an overwater bungalow in Bora Bora) but it does look lovely :)

      3. I live in the same county as Blackberry Farm and there are plenty of cabins nearby that are just as lovely but are much better priced. Come to town, rent a cabin, and eat at Dancing Bear Lodge, the Walnut Kitchen, or Foothills Milling. We also have great local restaurants that are lower budget – Full Service BBQ, Sweet Peas, Chapulines, The Shrimp Dock, Lemongrass, Amiciis.

    7. Seconding Berea, KY.

      Suggestion for Lexington, KY. Buffalo Trace (a half hour away in Frankfort) is open for tours; be aware that the tours do sell out quite quickly, so you will need to be aggressive about checking their website for updates. I believe Old Friends (retired thoroughbred farm) is open for tours. McConnell Springs Park is open. The restaurant scene in Lex is remarkably good. The Kentucky Castle (Versailles, about 15 min away) is open for a lot of events such as bourbon school, rooftop yoga, and murder mystery dinners.

  9. Just needed to say I’m still laughing over yesterday’s florist question nesting fail and Ribena’s “springtime for Proud Boys” comment.

    1. I’m glad that brought someone a chuckle. I did indeed get Producers ear worms for the rest of the day.

    2. It was my nesting fail. I laughed out loud to myself several times throughout the day!

    3. I enjoyed that too. I love when some random thing on the Internet gives enough humor for a few days. I still chortle over some of the coronavirus memes I’ve come across in the last six months.

  10. These pants are gorgeous. Every time I see flat panel pants with a tucked in shirt, I curse my pooch that won’t let me be great. Added to that being petite and having a short inseam and cute pants seem like a figment of my imagination.

    1. Why don’t you ask folks on this board who have similar shapes for suggestions? I have been given really helpful suggestions.

    2. To Cute Pants, I say wear the damn pants and just get them tailored to fit your particular inseam (or I’ve seen those hem raising magnets too?) Life is too short to doubt what you look good in. Bet you’d look cute in them!

      1. Pro tip: I have had success just folding the hems up on pants like that, and amazingly they stay put.

    3. Honestly these trousers have a really ‘firm’ fabric which is why they’re the only smart trousers I’ve ever tried that actually work on me. And means they might work for you too.

  11. i have a followup on yesterday’s LTD discussion. if you already get 60% of salary through your employer, can you also get 60% through a supplemental plan, or do you max out at 100%? what is the general advice for people who get a lot of compensation through bonus/stock?

    1. Your LTD through your employer is taxable income to you. LTD that you pay for should probably account for that and also that your $ needs may increase after an accident, so you may want as close to full income match (and account for taxes if you are high-bracket). I want the good adult diapers should I need them; and for them to be changed frequently.

    2. No, I believe supplemental plans only take you 75/80ish%. The companies do not want to make staying home as disabled more profitable than working. However, unlike the employer plan, which is likely 60% pre-tax (therefore much less than 60% in take home), supplemental plans are post-tax benefits. I don’t know about stock, but I believe bonuses may be treated as part of your take home pay for calculation purposes.

      Finally, now is the time to do this if you haven’t and haven’t been diagnosed with COVID yet. It may become difficult to get supplemental disability insurance with that in your medical history.

    3. I have 60% through my employer and went shopping earlier this year for further coverage. Some of the most reputable companies wouldn’t add any coverage and others cost a lot of money for very, very little additional coverage. I ended up just walking away.

    4. The benefit isn’t taxed (this was my understanding from a few years ago) so it’s not really equivalent to 60% of your take home pay. They don’t want you ending up being motivated to go on LTD, and a poster up thread mentioned.

      60% is fine.

      The bigger problem is that when it’s tied to your employer, you no longer have LTD when you leave. That’s the situation I’m in now. I looked at private market LTD and it was ridiculously expensive for me, and subject to a health exam I know I wouldn’t pass (I have rheumatoid arthritis.) But fortunately my assets have increased enough over the time period that we will be ok if I can’t work, which is the general goal with things like LTD and term life insurance.

      By the way, usually those numbers like 60% are after coordination of benefits, so for instance if you’re receiving social security disability payments, your LTD would pay the gap to get you to the 60% of salary, not pay 60% disability on top of SSDI.

  12. Does anyone remember C Wonder? Tory Burch’s ex-husband’s rip-off of her company? At first, they had some cute things. Then, she sued them and I think they lost/settled. Now, my Wal*mart fashion updates (b/c I buy my adult-sized kids uniforms at Wal*mart b/c they wear like iron) include . . . C Wonder items. Now exclusively at Wal*mart. They are actually very cute (too many wrap dresses for my taste) and half of the reviewers note that they were given their item in exchange for an honest review (where can I get that gig?!). At rate, interesting times for that brand and the Chris Burch / Tory Burch story. I’ve had some exes, but never anyone who ripped off my business and I had to sue.

    1. Oh I remember them! I didn’t know anything about the back story, but I remember there was a store in Manhattan near where I worked at the time so I wandered in a few times. The stuff was never my style and I never bought anything, and was gone fairly quickly.

      1. A friend had a cute bag that I thought must have been MZ Wallace but it was C Wonder, so maybe they ripped off / were inspired by a bunch of noted NYC brands? Like it was a great-looking brand, but I was #TeamTory on this and even though Tory Burch is $$$ for me, and any Tory Burch purchases were largely theoretical anyway.

    2. I think they were still around after the lawsuit but went out of business – I remember shopping the going out of business sale at my local store. Maybe they sold the name?

    3. Yes! I used to get a lot of my silk tops for work at C Wonder because they were bright and fun and reasonably priced…this is exciting. I just checked it out and they have some cute things!

    4. Someone likely bought the name out of bankruptcy if they went under. That’s how Kohl has brands from designers.

  13. Got randomly picked for a skip-level with a C-suite executive. There will be 15 or so other young employees in the virtual session. And I am drawing a blank what to ask him. What would you ask an executive?

    1. Where he sees the company headed and how people in your role can support that goal.

    2. You could ask strategy questions about your role, like if you research a particular thing ask how it fits into the overall strategy for the company, how the see the importance of a certain topic area growing, how you can support major goals for the corporation, etc.

      1. +1 to asking a question that includes a description of what you currently do. That makes you more memorable.

        But don’t do the non-question mansplaining type question. “I went to an Ivy League and now I’m working on the most important research in my unit which I’m the only one smart enough to do, and I’ve been promoted ahead of schedule three times, so my question is…. do you realize how great I am?”

  14. Random question — when did it become common in America that dads be in the birthing room with mom? I know there’s an image from the 60s of the dad in the waiting room handing out cigars. But when did it switch over to where it is now — where it’s looked at as a bit “odd” for a dad to be in the hospital building but not in the room? (I’m not saying there can’t be valid reasons — I’ve heard everything from cultural reasons to dad panicking and making it worse for mom, but generally speaking nowadays dads are there and are expected to be there, whereas I think back in the 60s a dad would’ve had to have permission to be in the room and I imagine that eyebrows were raised for making that request). But would it have been the 80s or 90s where that switch happened? If a kid was born in say 1980 in NJ, would dad necessarily have been allowed in the room?

    1. Not sure when the switch happened, but I was born in 1980 in New England (and siblings in ’82 and ’84) and Dad was present for all three births. My husband’s dad was present for all three of his family’s births in the same years, in South Africa.

    2. IDK — moms also used to stay in the hospital for a week and didn’t always have private post-birth rooms (my mom had a roommate after my sister was born that she stayed friends with). It was just really different then.

    3. I’m sure it was a somewhat gradual transition and varied based on parent preference and location. I was born in the mid 80s and my dad was in the room.

      What’s most weird to me about my mom’s pregnancy is that she never got an ultrasound! Apparently in that time period the technology existed but they only did them if something seemed wrong. So my parents had no idea if I’d be a boy or girl and apparently that was normal for low risk pregnancies at the time.

      1. I wish it was still like that. Knowing has dramatically increased the genderization of all things baby. So tired of showers filled with pink toys and frilly dresses or blue sweaters and trucks. Toys and baby clothes used to be much more gender neutral. It’s ironic that as we have become less binary about gender in other ways, the baby years have become hyper binary.

        1. I agree. I didn’t find out the sex of my baby when I was pregnant. The upside was no ugly “daddy’s little princess” kind of gifts. The downside was…other people thinking I was crazy, maybe? Seriously, I didn’t care.

          Also, you don’t need to have all the ultrasounds that others get. I had two or three maybe, as suggested by my doctors. I know they say it’s 100% safe but I saw no upside in getting blurry in utereo pictures of my baby’s face for fun, like some friends did.

        2. +1 this is why I didn’t find out with my first, I didn’t want a bunch of overly gendered clothes and toys (or baby gear – why does the stroller or car seat need to be gendered, it’s really gotten out of hand!) and you’d be shocked how hard it is to find gender neutral things! And people look at you like you have a third head if you don’t find out

          1. Did this work for you? My friend kept her first child’s sex a secret in the hopes of not getting all gendered gear from grandparents, but they just held off until the birth and then bought ALL the gendered stuff anyway.

          2. It limited the super gendered stuff to just clothes which were bought post-baby being born. At least we were able to keep everything on the registry gender neutral. So moderate success.

          3. But what you put on a registry is entirely your choice! No need to register for gendered stuff just because you know the sex of your baby.

          4. Sorry I should have clarified yes of course the registry was gender neutral because that’s what we wanted. we also got a lot of off registry clothes/stuff at the showe which wasn’t gendered because no one knew the gender. My friends who had gender neutral stuff on their registry but knew they were having a boy/girl ended up with an explosion of blue or pink, notwithstanding the gender neutral items on the registry.

        3. Agreed, although it was bad for my parents because they couldn’t agree on a boys name and were really anxious that I was going to be a boy. They finally came up with one when I was 3 (!) so it’s a good thing I was a girl :)

          We found out our daughter was a girl really early through the prenatal testing and I liked knowing both because I’m a control freak and because I think it helped me feel more connected to the baby during pregnancy being able to picture her. But we didn’t go in for any stereotyping and thankfully none of our friends and families did either. We actually got tons of space and dinosaur stuff because there are a lot of women in STEM in our social circles. I’m weirdly proud that I’ve never been invited to any kind of gender revel party. All of my friends have found out boy or girl during pregnancy, but the extent of the “reveal” was a text to friends “It’s a __!” Maaaaaybe a pink or blue heart emoji if they’re feeling bold ;)

        4. I had my son earlier this year. Maybe the people in our lives are all just really normal, but the stuff we got is fine for both boys and girls. It tilts boy, but I would not hesitate to put any of it on a girl baby or give it to a girl baby to play with or read.

          1. That’s generally the case with boys clothes though. I buy a lot of my daughters clothes from the boys section. It’s the girls stuff that is overly gendered. Finding jeans that don’t have hearts or other pink details was shockingly hard, until I realized I could just buy her clothes from the boys section!

      2. I think about this all the time! My mom had an infant that died shortly after birth from an undiagnosed physical defect (today because of ultra sounds the defect would have been detected and the baby would have been treated and been fine). Anyway, for her next pregnancy, she actually was part of a study where she got ultrasounds throughout her pregnancy. It was early days of the ultrasound so she was the only one she knew who got them.

      3. My mother had my sister in 1972. Father not in the delivery room, she was in the hospital for a week. I would say it was more late 1970s/early 1980s that fathers started to be in delivery rooms.

      4. Right! My mother received an ultrasound because she’d had 2 ectopic pregnancies and a surgery to correct that issue for me. But the ultrasound was around 4-6 weeks, and just to make sure I was in the right spot. It was too early to tell gender, so they didn’t know. Except my mom says she knew–she didn’t even pick out a boy name.

      5. Apparently my mom got an X-ray at the end to see if I was breech. She’s apologized to me for this (tongue-in-cheek) since literally everything is now bad for you when you are pregnant!

      6. My mom didn’t have an ultrasound until like 7.5, 8 or so months into her pregnancy in the mid-1980s. I don’t know why she got one. Anyway, that’s how she found out she was having twins. About a month before we were born. Surprise!

    4. I think I’ve read before that it became allowed in the 70s and by the mid to late 70s, more than 3/4 of the dads were in the rooms. In my case in 1980 — no my dad wasn’t there, but that’s just my family dynamic as he STILL thinks men shouldn’t have to “deal with those things.” I mean I have a cousin born circa 2000 and I remember during/after his birth as the family was waiting to hear from the couple and saying how they must’ve gotten no sleep as it was a long labor/delivery, my dad was like “it’s not like [husband] was in the room” — uh yes dad I assure you he was there for the entire 24+ hours and didn’t think it ok to drop off his wife to “handle it” so he wouldn’t have to “deal with it.”

      1. I kind of get your dad. Honestly, I don’t have to have spectators for any other surgeries or doctor visits. Now it is expected. And honestly, my husband is an annoying and nervous man, increasingly so when worried / things are out of his control / stressed, so having him in the room for labor as something I’d have preferred to avoid (for birth 1, the doula was helpful for managing him so I could go on about my business; birth 2 had a failed epidural and a lot of pain and he had the sense to STFU but still talks about how hard birth 1 was FOR HIM). No — maybe just bring him in for the actual birth but otherwise, I can say it is weird to impose this on women as an expectation. I am not going to be in the room for his colonoscopy, etc.

        1. I think it depends on the situation. Yeah my dad is the nervous type too so yeah it probably was better to not be there even if allowed. But IDK my parents were immigrants from India, only family was each other, my mother was so young and likely scared — so it seems awful to just say “hey handle it” because you don’t want to “deal.” Now if she wanted that or if women want that even now, sure, it shouldn’t be imposed on the woman that the dad must be there holding your legs or whatever. But too leave your spouse alone because YOU — the man who has to do nothing — is the scared/annoying type, IDK seems wrong.

        3. I’m kind of glad to hear someone say this. I was recently in the ER overnight and honestly I wish I hadn’t called my mom. I was kept up all night for various tests and then just wanted to be alone and sleep as much as possible but she would not leave me alone and kept asking nurses the same basic questions that I had already googled 12 hours ago. I felt like a terrible person for finally having to ask her to leave the room. No kids yet but I could see myself being the same way as you.

        4. Yep. My husband was not invited to my endoscopy. Not sure why he had to be invited to my delivery.

        5. Right, but shouldn’t that choice be up to the parent who is birthing, not their partner?

        6. My husband is a great guy but he’s not the best at medical situations. It was important to him that he be there for the births, but honestly, I had more warm fuzzy feelings in the moment towards the doctor giving the epidural.

          1. I fell madly in love with the anesthesiologist the second the epidural kicked in. I’m sure they receive several declarations of love every day!

          2. Yeah, my husband saw our daughter come out, which is cool I guess, but honestly he wasn’t much help. He took a nap early on, which really annoyed me, and then during the pushing I don’t really remember what he was doing but I remember screaming “SHUT THE F_CK UP” at him. Multiple times. I would never do this to him because it would crush him not to be there, but if we had a second child it would be my preference not to have him there and to have a doula as my medical advocate.

        7. My husband was a champ in the delivery room (C-section). He didn’t enjoy seeing my insides – something about ‘hamburger’ – but was a rock for me. When I needed to get impacted stool removed in the ER (which is even worse than it sounds), he was a champ.

    6. It was probably in the 70s when it became commonplace. I think my dad was in the room through most of my mom’s labor in 1966, though he left before the actual birth. In the early 90s, though, it was just the husband – no moms or sisters or friends in the labor room. To me that still seems weird, possibly because even though I have a pretty good relationship with my mother, she’s the last person I would want with me when giving birth.

      1. This. Having the husband there (or not) — sure. Building a grandstand so you can have moms, sisters, friends and whoever else staring at you down there — yeah IDK why that became a thing.

      2. Yes. I don’t get the mother/sister/MIL either. To me, it’s a moment between husband and wife. But of course others can do as they see fit.

          1. I wrote the comment saying “husband” and I immediately realized I should have written “baby’s father” – apologies everyone!

        3. Eh, I think it’s weird to say it just has to be between husband and wife. A birthing mother should have whoever she wants in the room. If my best friend was local, I would have wanted her and she would have wanted me, but we live on opposite sides of the country so we both flew out after the birth, since births are so unpredictable and we weren’t going to spend weeks in the other person’s city waiting for the baby to show up. I wanted my mom, but I was induced at 5 pm and was clearly going to be laboring through the night and she wanted to sleep. ;) She did come and spend some time with me before going to bed though. MIL was a no way for me (she’s a perfectly nice lady, but not someone I want there for such an intimate thing) but I know some women who did want their MILs and good for them! To each their own. Many women also have a doula these days, and there are usually several nurses and doctors in there for the delivery so it’s not like it’s an intimate husband-wife moment anyway.

        4. ? TBH I’d rather have my mom there, as she’s given birth and is a medical professional. Not all dads are involved, sometimes another female figure in your life is comforting to have around.

          1. Agreed! I think it’s way more comforting to have another women around, especially one who’s given birth herself. No man has given birth obviously, and most men I know have barely any knowledge about the birth and the female reproductive system in general. My mom isn’t a medical professional but she knew what I was going through and was a much bigger comfort to me than my husband who was like ‘Uhh what’s the cervix again? Is that the thing that releases the egg?’ Um, no dude.

        5. My MIL was mega-pissed that she wasn’t going to be invited into the delivery room when I had my son 14 years ago. She insisted it was “her right to be there” and got her sister, my husband’s aunt, to back her up and they called him and read him the riot act over it. The only person I wanted with me was my husband. My mom also wanted to be in the delivery room but was fine with it when I told her no. As it happened, I ended up with an emergency c-section and so no one but my husband could have been there, but my MIL still has a grudge. Thankfully we don’t see her that often.

      3. I’ve heard some people say they felt empowered to have a whole crew of ladies cheering them on and helping, which I guess makes sense. But I agree – if my mom were in the room while I was laboring, I would be so cranky so fast. Better to just not.

      4. My MIL, mom, and husband were all in the room before I was induced and until the contractions got bad. They all got kicked out when the anesthesiologist was called, and we didn’t invite them back in until after the baby was born. I didn’t mind because I was just lying in bed waiting for things to happen between 6 am and 11 am. Honestly, as I got crankier, my MIL annoyed me the least out of the 3 of them. Once the petocin kicked in and we called for the epidural, I really just wanted the nurse, but my husband stayed. (Big picture, I did want my husband there, as a medical advocate, to be present, to meet/bond with the baby, etc. His presence just wasn’t super helpful between 8 and 10 cm.)

      5. My MIL was very hurt that I didn’t allow her in the delivery room when I had both babies. I didn’t allow my mother either. I only wanted my husband there. My husband actually caught our second child. My sister wanted me, our mother, and her husband there for the birth of her three children. Her husband literally passes out at the sight of blood though, so I understood why she wanted us there. He stayed up towards her head lol and did not watch the actual birth.

        My husband and I were both born in 1983. I was born in the Southwest and he was born in the Midwest. Both of our fathers were in the delivery room.

    7. My niece was born in 1974 and my sister had to fight to have her dh with her in the room. It was acceptable at some hospitals, but not the one where she was delivering.

    8. I was told recently (by someone who did not cite sources) that in the 60s fathers were allowed to be present during labors, but were kicked out for deliveries, and that gradually over the 70s and 80s this was relaxed and they were allowed to stay for deliveries. My dad was certainly in the room, but I was born in the 90s.

    9. In the US, it switched in the early 70s. The practice rose out of the second wave feminist movement in the late sixties, combined with the move towards greater patient autonomy/informed consent generally. I was born in PA in 1976, and it was entirely mainstream and expected for dads to be present and cut the cord.

    10. Have you been watching the latest season of Call the Midwife posted on Netflix? :) In 1980 my dad was in the room.

      1. Was going to say this! I love Call the Midwife and it’s been very interesting to see them show how rapidly the culture around birth changed. It used to be women-only, with mothers being the pivotal support system, and husbands not welcome; then, the midwives gradually started allowing men in situations where they insisted they wanted to. The current season of the show is somewhere in the mid-60’s and men in the delivery room were extremely rare. It also used to be 100% home births but the shift to hospital deliveries was extremely rapid.
        For me personally, I think I would really like both my (currently imaginary) husband and my mom to be with me. My mom has been through it before and can really empathize.

    12. I wish it were not the expectation for dads/partners to be in the room. It should be the preference of the person giving birth. In my case, I would have preferred just the doula, but my husband (1) thought that as the dad he had a right to be present and (2) would have been crushed and thought it meant I didn’t love and respect him if I asked him to leave. In the end it was fine that he was there, but if I hadn’t had the doula to help advocate for my wishes he would have been a big problem. E.g., the nurse tried to administer medication I didn’t want or need without my consent; my husband wouldn’t have noticed or would have consented on my behalf, and the doula caught it and made them ask for my consent, which I denied.

      1. I agree with him. Why keep him out because you have an issue with nurses? Why even be married to someone if you want to deny him the opportunity to witness the birth of his child?

        1. Not an issue with nurses, an issue with how he handles medical decision-making. I love him, but I studied med mal and he didn’t.

          1. But is his role to be a doula? It seems like you had someone to fill that role already.

        2. Because it’s weird to have spectators for a major medical procedure? Because the mom shouldn’t have to worry about the dad’s needs while she is delivering a baby, or that he might faint?

          1. It’s so weird to me to call birth a major medical procedure. Like yes sure and it is also welcoming a new human to your family. . Him being there does not mean you need to worry about his needs and come on. Fainting husbands are vanishingly rare.

          2. It’s absolutely a major medical procedure. It’s by far the most dangerous thing most women do in their lifetimes. If you don’t know anyone who had life-threatening complications in childbirth, consider yourself lucky, but it’s really not uncommon even in 2020.

          3. I didn’t feel like my birth was a major medical procedure, even though they can be. After the baby comes out there’s a lot of things that happen like cord cutting, bathing, bonding, etc that I was glad to include my husband in. I didn’t worry about his needs because he’s an adult. Together, we worried about the new baby’s needs.

        3. +1. Your husband is not a trained doula and I wouldn’t expect him to have the knowledge around childbirth decisions your doula had, but why keep him out altogether?

          1. Because, like another poster above, I had to hire the doula to handle him. Some partners are a burden to the laboring mom.

        4. She’s the patient. He’s not. It’s her choice. It’s her medical procedure. He does not have the right to be there. He can be there with her consent. Let’s not take consent away from women so easily.

    13. I was born in 1978 in NJ and my father was in the room (a hospital near Princeton, NJ).

    14. They used to knock the moms out and deliver with forceps routinely, so I’m sure dads couldn’t be there for that. I think dad in the room goes back to the 1970s natural childbirth movement.

    15. You should see the many many posts on Redd1t about how many people feel entitled to witness a birth. I feel like we’re back in the era where the consummation of a royal marriage had to be witnessed by a crowd.

      The list of people who feel entitled to be there includes lots of mothers in law (“I have a right to see my grandchild born”), fathers who have abandoned the pregnant mother but seem to feel legally entitled to be there at the birth, mother of the laboring woman, sisters, etc.

      NONE of the tone in these things is how can I be there to support the laboring woman? They’re all about THIS IS MY RIGHT

      The thing is that until the baby is born, the pregnant woman is the only patient in that room, and she has the right to tell the hospital to kick people out. I hope every woman knows this.

      1. Every time I read stories about that kind of MIL I am just blown away by the entitlement.

      2. It weirded me out how my MIL was like “oh, you need to tell us when you go into labor so we can go sit in the waiting room!” Like am I really going to want someone breathing down my neck and trying to bust into the delivery room? After having had the baby it seems so much weirder that someone who has had multiple children herself would even have that thought.

    16. I’m a 70s baby and dads were in the room unless there was a c-section. Source: my mom and her friends.

    18. I was born in 76 and my dad was there, but I remember him saying the hospital was a little surprised by the request. But I think there was a major location aspect to it too – I was born in Birmingham, Alabama, but my 3 years older brother was born when my parents lived in Chicago, and it was expected that he’d be in the room.

  15. I feel silly asking this question, but… I use Vanguard and have a brokerage account and two retirement accounts there. When I look at performance (the chart), I can only see the entire portfolio and can’t see the performance for the retirement/non-retirement accounts. There has not be a button to do that right? Why can’t I find it? Can anyone help?

    1. You should be able to select to see each account’s performance individually if you go into the account page.

    2. For some reason I cant figure out how to do that on the website, but it’s very easy on the iPad app. If you have one, give that a try!

      1. Thank you!! I’m glad I’m not the only one struggling with this, lol. I don’t have an iPad but I’ll try the iPhone app.

  16. Anyone else joining this today? Super interested to see what a totally virtual conference experience is like!

  17. 15 years ago I was studying abroad in Spain, and I remember some local students asking me why I voted for Bush (I hadn’t, but he was president at the time). I can only imagine what they are saying now and I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I would pay good money to have him as president

    1. We studied abroad in Spain at the same time! I was in Valencia… love it there. I backpacked around Europe solo for a month prior to settling in for the summer. I vividly remember drinking around a fire at a hostel in Salzburg with a bunch of fellow backpackers. Average age was 21 at best. I made friends in a prior city with two Canadians. The conversation we walked in to around that fire was another American I didn’t know basically fighting with an Italian. It was FIESTY, borderline physical, and lots of people were getting involved – the American was severely outnumbered (he was doing himself no favors, poking the bear, as I recall). When the conversation came to us, the two Canadian friends introduced me, with them, as being from the same home town in Canada as they were worried for my safety in that moment should I have identified as being American. Hindsight, I was probably fine – but tensions were high. I can’t fathom that setting/conversation today.

      1. I should say, though probably implied… the conversation we walked in to was about American politics and specifically our president and his handling of the middle east/war on terror.

      1. I was in Germany the year before as a Brit and got a similar set of questions, I imagine.

    3. When we travel abroad, we’re often mistaken for Canadians, which we are usually really grateful for and don’t correct. If identified as Americans, we’d say, well, we are from “Super Blue City” or “Super Blue State” and that was usually enough for others to realize we weren’t the typical “ugly Amercians.”

      1. Too funny, on our last Europe trip I packed clothes from every Canadian brand we happen to have and that helped us fly under the Ugly American radar.

      2. I always have to think a litte extra about the colour thing – in Europe blue in politics is usually very conservative, and red more labour or social democrat. I know the US is different if I think about it, but not by instinct. If you had told me you’re from a “super blue city”, I would have assumed you were hard core republican.

        1. I think she meant she says “I’m from San Francisco” or whatever the blue (liberal) city is.

    4. Back in 2010 I studied abroad in the UK and took several politics classes, and everytime something about Bush came up everyone in the class would look at me like I was going to defend his actions. It was mildly terrifying to think that people coule actually believe all Americans like and agree with the current president.

    5. Analogously, I’m a prosecutor and people in my social circle expect me to defend the actions of all police officers at all times. Which is pretty funny, because I spent the early part of my career working for a civilian review organization and have published about the need for more police accountability.

    6. We took the kids to London in 2018 and the overwhelming emotion we got from strangers wasn’t anger – it was pity. As in, look at those nice people and their nice children, coming from a country where you go bankrupt if you get sick and everyone can buy every gun and all the ammo all the time. The hotel we chose had a number of Muslim guests and when my son tripped and fell into a lady wearing niqab, she and her husband were so kind to him and worried that she had frightened the little American boy.

      The only person we ran across who was smitten with our president was the racist cab driver. I was so annoyed – those cabs are so elegant and expensive, and I could have listened to my dad do the same diatribe for free!

  18. I left some of my favorite lounge clothing soaking in buckets in my basement and neglected them for so long they developed yellow mildew that I can’t get out. It is just two white tee shirts and a five dollar pair of pajama pants from Target (that I wore washing my car), but I was wondering if there is a way to get them clean again. Any ideas?

    2. Did it not come out with washing them? You could try bleach or Lysol laundry sanitizer.

    3. I’d do a soak in oxyclean and the hottest water you have for about 24 hours, then launder. May need to repeat.

    4. Color-wise, I’m not sure. But I’ve successfully gotten out really bad mildew smells by including a 1/2 cup of distilled white vinegar in with the detergent.

    5. If you’ve put them through the dryer, it’s probably permanently set. I’d try a round with Oxi Clean and then dry in the sun for awhile.

    6. Vinegar in the wash followed by dryer might do it if it’s the smell you can’t get rid of.
      Don’t put anything else in the wash/dryer in the same wash.

  19. Question inspired by the LTD policy discussion and pre-existing conditions.

    I was mis-diagnosed and (unsuccessfully) treated for several mental health conditions, based on my complaints of debilitating fatigue. After years of trying med after med that did nothing, and jumping around unsatisfied from doctor to doctor, I finally found a decent physician who went back to the drawing board and figured out that my thyroid was barely functioning. I’m now successfully managing it with an endocrinologist.

    So, does years of treatment for mental health “count” towards insurance policies, when the diagnoses were 100% wrong?

    1. This was actually the exact scenario I had in mind when I commented above that some people slow down in their 30s because of health conditions, and then realized that I was mostly thinking about undiagnosed and untreated conditions. I feel fine now that I’m diagnosed and treated, but I was a lot less adventurous when my thyroid was low, and they were trying to treat it with psych meds that weren’t working (and in some cases were making me more tired). I know a few people who had similar experiences with other conditions. And I have the same question now: What happens to obvious misdiagnoses in a medical record?

    2. So, my husband is actually a disability insurance consultant/wholesaler. I just asked him your question, and he says a lot depends on all of the facts, but that its possible to get mental/nervous exclusions removed in circumstances like the ones above. Do you have a burner email address? He can walk you through it if you want.

  20. Long shot question but would be grateful for any info — does anyone know anything about the Chesterbrook Farms neighborhood in McLean, VA? Or want to make a plug for McLean, VA in general? TIA!

    1. Are you coming from out of state? McLean is…the worst of all wealthy American stereotypes. Obscenely oversized McMansions, traffic, sprawl, helicopter moms hiring college consultants for their 5th graders… My personal definition of he11 on earth. A schoolteacher friend said the drug problem in the McLean schools is out of control because the kids have so much money; she didn’t have that problem in her more working class school in Alexandria.

      The thing I could never quite wrap my head around was how small the local libraries were – both physically and in collection size. I guess because local residents are so insanely affluent, they had no need for libraries. It made me realize I never want to live somewhere without good libraries.

      PS – It’s pronounced McLain, not McLeen.

      1. I read “make a plug for McLean, VA” and visibly grimaced. Can’t do it, sorry.

      2. HonestQ — is McLean really that different from north Arlington or Vienna? All of these areas sort of blend together to me (and Falls Church city) and the only way I really know where I am is by what color the street signs are.

        I’m in north Arlington technically, but on the orange line in a high-rise, so it all seems like fungible suburbia to me. Except that Great Falls seems richer than McLean.

        My co-workers who drive note that it is easy to get into DC via car if you are coming from the McLean / far North Arlington area . . . over Chain Bridge? Down GW parkway? Something like that that isn’t true if you are coming from Vienna, etc.

        1. Each of these neighborhoods/towns you’ve mentioned has a very different character IMO. Arlington on the metro is vastly different than McLean off the metro.

        2. This. I’m hoping the anti-Mclean folks aren’t in North Arlington! They all just blend together and have similar dynamics.

    2. I’m looking to buy myself and honestly all the negatives the prior poster just listed are my positives. It’s a wealthy area. You’re surrounded by professionals and owners of professional businesses. Honestly that isn’t the case every where in Northern Va where diversity often means being surrounded by people who don’t speak English/will never learn it, work in manual labor jobs, and/or treat the neighborhoods like back home in wherever. McLean does have diversity but it’s people of various colors who have certain degrees and professional accomplishments. If that means being around people hiring college consultants and SAT tutors in 5th grade to make a plan to get their kids to the ivy leagues, I’ll take it.

        1. What other areas of Northern Va are like this in terms of attitude/who lives there?

          1. I can’t think of any others that have people like this. I don’t even think the multi-million dollar horse estates in the far western suburbs are like this. McLean’s really a status-conscious, new money place IMO.

    3. I grew up next to McLean in N. Arlington in the 90s. I love Arlington!

      McLean has some restaurants that have tasty food if you live nearby and your parents are taking you and you’re 15. Not sure if they’re objectively good. I miss Cafe Tatti and their 80 year old waiters and patrons.

    4. Wow, so much hate for McLean. Okay, I’ll bite. I grew up in McLean in the 90s (graduated high school in 2001) and I generally have good memories. I walked to the local Dolly Madison library all the time – it was great! I played tennis in those public courts behind the library and played with my friends in that wooded area. I’m Chinese American and there was a group of Asians who were all middle-class immigrants, whose parents all worked in IT, who lived in McLean in relatively modest houses for the good public schools. I lived very close to Chesterbrook elementary school. I was disappointed to find out that my old house has since been torn down and replaced by a huge McMansion by a developer. Pros – great public schools that everyone went to. I used to love riding the school bus and seeing the beautiful houses. I used to love going into these houses for school projects. Even though some people were wealthy, I personally didn’t feel it was a big deal or poison the social interactions. Like when we first moved to McLean, my parents were actually renting the basement of another house. They were kind of sensitive when I wanted to invite my friends over to play. It’s sad that adults are so much more aware of this kind of stuff than kids. I ended up testing into TJ and that was the hardest school I ever went to in my entire life. But I learned so much and it was free! Now I live in NW DC and I actually think my peers now in DC are wealthier and more privileged than the folks I grew up with in McLean. Like people in DC can afford to pay for private school if they decided to do it down the road. Folks in McLean – the middle class ones we who hung around with- bought there so their kids could attend the best public schools in the country. Last time I checked property prices, I was actually surprised McLean was cheaper than parts of DC. I don’t live in McLean because I didn’t want to replicate my childhood and I actually think lack of public transportation is the biggest con. Maybe that’s changed since the new stops to the Metro were added.

    5. This is also my personal definition of hell on earth, thank you for defining it so well! Yes to large libraries and culture and diversity and no to sprawl and college consultants for 5th graders. Ew.

    1. Ok I’ll say it — why did they need to take and release professional pics of her crying, getting her epidural, John leaning on her bed, and then of them holding the baby? If they need private pics for their memories, sure. But releasing it screams LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME. And really you’re sooo distraught but want someone taking multiple pics of you and then are working on selecting the perfect ones to showcase on IG? Come on.

      1. Chrissy has always shared her life in a very candid and public way. I think many women who’ve been in this situation appreciate her willingness to talk about it and remove the stigma. In any event, people grieve differently and it’s not your call to decide how she should be behaving.

      2. I’ve had a miscarriage. For me, seeing the experience of pregnancy loss depicted in her photos has been hard but also validating in a way because it shines a light on what is typically an awful experience that isn’t spoken about and is shrouded in secrecy.

        Also, I’m going to go ahead and say that maybe consider if you really want to be the person who is suggesting that a woman who has lost a child is really not “sooo distraught.” You think she’s fine? That this is totally okay with her? What are you implying, exactly?

        1. I tend to agree. I’m a bit cynical about sharing the pictures on social media as well, but if your implication is that she is not distraught, I certainly can’t agree with that and find it very distasteful.

      3. I am a little cynical about these celebrities’ motives in sharing their photos. However, when a popular recipe blogger shared the stories and photos of her own loss, I saw it as a public service that built awareness and understanding of the issue.

      4. She’s always shared a lot of her life and honestly I appreciated her sharing. It’s refreshing to have a celebrity who shares the good and bad parts of her life. It’s also nice to have miscarriages normalized instead of something people feel they have to hide or be ashamed of

      5. Are you seriously suggesting she’s not distraught about losing her baby?

        In any event, I’m so confused by this viewpoint. Isn’t posting only happy pictures way more LOOK AT ME? Why should people pretend their lives are all sparkles and rainbows? It’s way more real to post both the good and the bad. How many women suffer silently because they worry they’ll hear, well it wasn’t a REAL baby. I think it’s really powerful for someone with her following to shed light on this.

      6. Why do you need to criticize a grieving family? Why do you think loss must be kept private? Why do you feel entitled to share your critique? Why are you a bad person?

      7. What makes you think they were professionally done? I assumed her mom or assistant took them. Or even John, for the ones he’s not in. Either way it’s super gross to imply that she’s not actually distraught because you disapprove of how she’s choosing to share the news.

      8. OTOH, pictures are all they will have of this baby to remember him by. I worked with a neonatal hospice as a pro bono client and they worked with local photographers to take pictures of a baby that was known to not be expected to live a long time. Those pictures are thought to humanize and make their baby and their loss real and gives them something when they leave the hospital with nothing. It is really hard for the mothers because your body knows you had a baby and your milk will come in and it reminds them again of their loss. It is just so, so, so sad that I wouldn’t judge what people do in their grief. It is a tunnel you don’t choose to go through and the goal is to come out the other side however you get there.

      9. Anonymous, go away and think about why you need to be so nasty about someone else’s tragedy. How is her sharing her life (which is completely in character for her) hurting you?

      10. Virtually everyone announces a new baby with a social media photo and many women include photos of themselves in their hospital bed or even laboring. I didn’t read it so much as “look at us and our grief” but more “look at our son and how he came into the world.” They didn’t get to share the cute pink chubby -cheeked baby photos that everyone else does, so they shared this instead.

      11. I’m v cynical but I think they were just iphone shots and she’s trying to reduce stigma and it’s not like she JUST shared this, she shares everything. It feels more unecessary and LOOK AT ME when I see someone post a baby announcement but the caption includes everything from a dead parent, previous pregnancy loss, 2 references using the term “rainbow baby,” the cancelled plans in 2020, etc. etc. etc. On and on. I’m happy for you, post a baby annoucement, but I don’t need a novel in the caption about everything you’ve suffered in 2020. But even whatever, you do you, scroll on.

    2. My heart breaks for her and I am horrified that allegedly pro-life people on Twitter are mocking her or indulging in schadenfreude because she’s pro-choice.

      I say “allegedly” because I think people who truly value the unborn see this as a horrible tragedy, not an opportunity to score points.

      1. They’re anti-abortion, not pro-life. I switched my wording a few years ago and it feels much more true. I don’t really know who Teigen is, but it’s so, so sad whenever anyone loses a baby.

        1. +1 I know exactly 1 person who is anti-abortion and pro-life. She opposes abortion but supports free birth control, s*x education for teens, programs to provide support for new parents, volunteers for an adoption agency, etc. The rest of the anti-abortion people seem to be pro-life only up to the point the baby is born.

          1. Still doesn’t make her position defensible. Forced pregnancy is a human rights violation and advocating for it is gross.

          2. Oh I still think she’s wrong and tell her as much. But she’s the only person I’ll actually call pro-life

          3. She’s not pro-life if she’s okay with women dying of forced pregnancy. Pregnancy introduces so many risks and absolutely no woman should ever be pressured, forced, or encouraged to take that on when they don’t want to or can’t. Your friend is still anti-abortion, not “pro-life.”

      2. She’s also been on the receiving end of some crazy Qanon-ers who think she’s a pedophile, and they see this as an opportunity to go after her. F*CK 2020.

    4. That’s really sad.

      Tough question that I feel safe asking here: I have a close friend whose son passed away at two weeks old. She’s a really brave, kind and strong person who suffered several miscarriages before losing her son. She once gently corrected me when I called another friend’s pregnancy loss “losing a baby.” Specifically, she said “so and so lost a pregnancy, I lost a baby.” I felt like such an insensitive jerk and started trying to separate the two in my speach so as to not do that to anyone again.
      Anyway, Chrissy lost a pregnancy, right? Everyone is using the phrase I did. Are we using the right term? Please don’t think I’m trying to minimize her pain/loss I just feel like I messed this up once before.

      1. Your friend is allowed to feel her own feelings, but she doesn’t get to dictate how other women talk about their own miscarriages.

          1. I lost my baby. I had his picture and heard his heartbeat before it went away. I hadn’t birthed him yet, but I lost him.

          2. So abortion after a heartbeat can be detected (~6 weeks) is murder? Because you can’t really have it both ways. Pre-viability, it’s not a child, it’s a fetus, and they’re not the same thing. It’s a loss, but you didn’t lose a child, unless you think every woman terminating a pregnancy after 6 weeks has murdered her child.

          5. Yes, in this case you can have it both ways. You can grieve something on a personal, emotional level, while not framing it in the same terms legally. We do it all the time.

          6. Telling me to go to h*ll doesn’t explain the logical inconsistency in your position. Either it’s a baby or it’s not, you can’t have it both ways.

          8. It’s up to each individual woman whether or how to grieve. If someone wants to grieve the baby they miscarried at 11 weeks or even the potential baby that they aborted, that is none of your business.

      2. Your friend should try making that argument to somebody going through a situation like Teigen’s and see how that works out for her.

        1. I mean, but my friend did have miscarriages. She was pretty adamant that that wasn’t the same as losing her son and I figured, having been on both sides of the fence, she was speaking from a place of authority. I also got the impression that this correction was common and maybe even stemmed from her infant loss support group or therapist. Finally, she wasn’t really correcting other women talking about their own loss, just me as a third party using the wrong term.

          1. It’s not the same as losing her son. I agree with her there. I’m the poster below who lost a three year old (to cancer.) I also had miscarriages. They’re both sad things but a miscarriage does not compare to losing a living child. It just doesn’t.

            I wouldn’t go around telling anyone else how to characterize their miscarriage but I assume that, like me, your friend has been subjected to others telling her that their miscarriages are the same thing as the loss of her child. She is re-living her grief every time that happens. I’d extend her some grace.

      3. I think people are saying pregnancy loss because there’s not a lot of information about how far along she was and whether this would technically be called a miscarriage, a stillbirth, or something else. “Pregnancy loss” is more general.

        I understand that your grieving friend is a kind person and also suffered a lot, but you weren’t wrong. My miscarriage was very early and while extremely sad and hard, I don’t feel like I lost a baby. If I had been farther along, though, I would very much have felt like I lost a baby and frankly would have been angry if someone had suggested that I didn’t get to talk about it that way.

      5. I lost two pregnancies (around 13 weeks) and a three year old child. There is no comparison. But I would never tell someone what to call their own loss.

        I do bristle when people try to tell me their miscarriage is the same as me losing a three year old. But mainly it’s because I don’t know why they need to compete with my loss.

        1. i have nothing to add to this, just wanted to send you lots of hugs. agree, there is no need for the loss olympics. as someone who has had a miscarriage and now has a 2 year old, i would agree that losing my toddler would feel incredibly different than my miscarriage. my heart goes out to you

    5. After the LOOK AT ME is over, they’ll have another one — IVF, surrogate, whatever. It’s not like money is an object. IDK I feel worse for normal people when these things happen because they don’t have every option in the world nor can they talk about this for weeks and months to come because IRL at some point you go back to work etc. and aren’t talking about it.

      1. Wow. WOW. This comment is amazingly insensitive. You can throw money at a lot of problems, but grief isn’t one of them.

      4. This is the type of comment that drags down the site and makes it through mod while tons of innocuous stuff gets stuck for hours.

      5. Wow.

        Go away and think about how you got to be that person who says it’s NBD that their baby died because they can just have another one. Because I don’t say this lightly, but that person is terrible.

      8. I don’t think that’s fair. I have a friend who is successfully (fingers crossed) having a baby by surrogate after years of fertility struggles, failed IVF, miscarriages, etc., and she still mourns those miscarriages and her fertility struggles. Just because she will have a healthy child doesn’t mean her losses will just go away.

      9. IVF isn’t something one pursues just because they have the money to allow it. It’s quite literally horrendous, emotionally and physically. The cost of it is the very least of my concerns and I don’t have all that much money.

        I’d keep typing but you’re not worth it, so pardon me as I go call in my menopur Rx refill.

        1. Anon at 2:20- I’m currently on day 15 of IVF stims and have honestly found it physically fine. If it’s physically horrendous for you, you may have OHSS or another issue and you should probably talk to your doctor about it.

          1. Thanks, I am talking to my doctor. I have hormone induced migraines, a not common but known side effect of Gonal F and Menopur. I’m also on metformin for my insulin resistant PCOS, which gives me all the GI issues no matter what I eat or in what quantity. It’s absolutely brutal but this protocol/medicine cocktail gives me the highest probability, so we’re staying the course. It’s my 5th round this year between IVF and IUI. I keep telling myself this will be worth it. I’m on day 7 of this latest round, hoping to have something measurable at tomorrow’s monitoring. Good luck to you.

  22. Any recommendations for a new dryer? Washer/dryer came with the house, dryer broke and I have never bought a dryer before. We have two adults and 2 kids, and ideally we do laundry 2-3x a week.

    What’s a good brand? Any model recommendations? Do dryers go on sale on Black Friday?

    I am open to replacing the washer at the same time if you think that’s a good idea… I don’t want to be stuck without a washer.

    Thank you smart wonderful women!

    1. I’m a strong advocate of the no-frills industrial Speed Queens. Laundromats stock them, and they take a beating. I am not about models with digital bells and whistles, it’s all just more pieces to break.

    2. One thing I learned about dryers this year is that ventless dryers need to be in open spaces – we put ours in the laundry closet and it’s dreadful because it can’t circulate air in and out. It works slightly better if we leave the door open but overall just isn’t great. My sister got the exact same model and it works perfectly in her basement.

    3. We LOVED our Electrolux washer/dryer. I don’t think you need to get both if one still works well. I feel like it did a good job with different types of washes (delicates, towels, etc). And I think it’s one of the more dependable brands.

    4. Costco has several different models and they seem to go on sale every few weeks. I bought a Samsung front loader set for a few hundred less than competitor’s pricing and it came with free delivery and install.

    5. I hate my LG dryer that was recommended everywhere, the rubber seal collects lint and it’s gross. Also to tumble dry low for an hour or set time, you have to select the time and then the temp in that order. If you select the temp first and then the time, it’ll reset itself to high (!!). As a brand new parent I pushed them in the wrong order didn’t realize, and it shrunk all of the clothes I had left that fit me and most of my new baby’s clothes.

      Generally you should also avoid Samsung appliances, they have poor reviews and are very difficult to get repaired because many people will not work on them.

      1. Hard agree. The gasket on our Samsung washer molded so badly within it’s first year that the repairman totaled it (after his 3rd trip out) and they reimbursed us for a good amount of the cost.
        Our whirlpool ones have been great for the last 5 years.

    6. If you need a dryer now, find out what is available that fits your specs (size, gas or electric, finish) and then make your choice. My dryer broke two weeks ago, and available inventory was surprisingly low, and I am in a major population area. Choosing a brand and then shopping would have been a waste of time.

    7. How did the dryer break? Did it stop spinning? Did it stop heating?

      My dryer stopped spinning a couple of weeks a go. Several Youtube videos and $12 later it is back to functioning (the dryer belt had snapped). Saved me so much money! Honestly, you can probably fix the 20 year old dryer if you are remotely handy and know what a Phillips screwdriver is.

      1. Yes, dryers are very simple machines compared to washers. OP, get yours looked at! If it’s truly broken, get a no-frills one unless you really want to spend more, because there aren’t major differences between the low and high-end models.

    8. Hope you are still reading. We went to a local appliance store and talked to the sales folks and then sprung for a Bosch washer and dryer set. We liked that the Bosch ones, like a lot of European brand ones, have an “eco smart” option that basically dries clothes for a longer time at a lower temperature, which is supposedly better on the clothes and better for the environment. In any case, we’ve had our set for 9 years and are happy with them. Even if you go with another brand, I recommend side-loading because they use less water, no agitator (the agitator is rough on your clothes), and pedestals because reaching down to get your clothes is painful for your back. Also, despite the posters’ experience above, we bought a Samsung set for my parents through Costco and they like theirs a lot, too.

  23. For the Canadians on the site… What are your favourite workwear stores? My closet is in need of a serious update. Usually I shop in the U.S. while visiting family 3 or 4 times a year – but will be on hold for a while. After Banana Republic, and maybe Hudson Bay, what are your favorite stores to frequent for business casual and business formal looks?
    TIA!

    1. Judith & Charles if you have the budget / can wait for the sales
      Gotstyle if you want a custom suit and are in toronto
      Club Monaco or Frank & Oak for interesting separates

      I haven’t tried Sumissura or SEWT, but looks like they do indochino style custom suits / blazers for women

      Tristan is made in Canada, but I never find anything I actually like

    2. RW& Co for business casual and occasional trendy suit. And increasingly Reitmans as I find they have upped their game a bit (both RW and Reitmans are owned by the same company)

      I’m tall so usually go for JCrew suiting. I used to do Femme de Carriere but I find their selection is not good anymore.

      1. I was curious about RW & Co. but wasn’t sure of the quality. I’m new-ish to Canada (and thus the shopping state-side as I know and was more comfortable with the brands). Is it same quality as say BR Factory Stores?

        1. Same as or better than BR Factory Store. Not real wool suiting but the blouses and pants are very similar to actual BR or JCrew.

    3. Same as or better than BR Factory Store. Not real wool suiting but the blouses and pants are very similar to actual BR or JCrew.

      1. I’ll check out Simons! I’m not near any of those stores – and not a fan of having to order online and then return via mail when I don’t really know my size in their brands. But it’s a great time to embrace more online shopping!

        Yeah, perhaps somewhat uncommon for our current times, but I’m full-time in the office along with most of my colleagues. We have been taking in-person client meetings, doing Zoom hearings with the client or at the client’s offices, plus plenty of Zoom hearings/mediation. My practice definitely kicked up a notch after Labour Day! We’re in an area with low COVID cases and low transmission (so not one of the major cities)…

    4. Talbots has lots of black, grey, navy suit separates if their sizes work for you. I know some find them too old looking, but I have found that if you get past some of their super bright colours, their separates are good quality and wear well. They generally have 30% sales and free shipping fairly frequently if you do have to order online. You can return in store in Canada and get your duties and taxes back as well (save that slip from the shipper).

      If you share your city, I might have other recommendations.

  24. Do you think pale whitish pink but opaque/creamy nail polish is conservative enough for the most conservative situations? I.e. law school interviewing.

    I nearly always wear Essie Fiji, Essie Peak Show, and Essie Romper Room.

    1. Oh heavens yes. Do white shoe firms still care about this sort of thing? My boutique firm wouldn’t notice short, well kept nails in any traditional color (they’d notice, say, green, but it wouldn’t impact your interview).

      1. I would not diss someone for asking. I am not from an UMC background where I would have learned the rules, and I had to ask a lot of questions before ending up in anything close to appropriate interview and work attire.

    3. I am not a lawyer but I think pale whitish pink polish is about as conservative as nail polish colors get. The only more conservative choice I can think of is clear polish.

      I will say, I think many colored polishes can be more or less “noticeable” depending upon skin tone. I have medium brown skin and the whitish pink color you described “pops” against my skin color. (I like the contrast and gravitate towards that color, but I also don’t work in a field where nail polish color matters at all unless it’s truly outlandish.) On my white friends with pale complexions, the color might read as nude/barely there and therefore even more conservative.

      1. I’m guessing the places that care about this kind of thing are also the places whose norms are all centered around being white. The fact that pale pink might stand on other complexions out wouldn’t even occur to them.

    4. yes 100%. I think one thing about this pandemic is that a lot of people DGAF about some things they would previously nitpick. Personally I would not care or notice unless you were wearing bright blue, green, etc. This includes thinking shades as dark as Essie Wicked, Schoolboy Blazer, etc. are fine. Just make sure if your nails are polished that there are no chips.

    5. Thanks, all, for the input!! I just wasn’t sure if “neutral” had to be transcluscent/sheer. Thank goodness it sounds like I don’t have to give up my opaque pastel polish… hah I think I have been wearing it every day since I was about 12 :)

  25. There was a post earlier about different ways to help besides phone banking. If you’re not keen on phone banking (I’m not either), here’s another way to help – help staff the National Voter Assistance Hotline. https://www.mobilize.us/2020victoryvp/event/322975/

    For those who are open to writing letters, here’s the link for Vote Forward which focuses on swing state voters. https://votefwd.org/
    It’s easy, I promise! I knocked out 80 in a couple nights and my elementary schooler helped write return addresses (not your own) on the envelopes, so it was a nice way to involve him in the civic process (hopefully encouraging lifelong habits) and continue our dialogues about what’s going on.
    They have organized people to write over 9 million letters already, which is well above the margin of victory in 2016, and their studies have shown that letters do increase turnout.

    For lawyers, there are also additional volunteer opportunities like post-election adjudication of ballots in various states, which can be done remotely. Here’s the link to sign up for the list that includes various opportunities in different states including post election adjudication (ballot curing), poll watching, ballot count watching and hotline staffing (easier than cold calls).
    Ballot curing may be lawyers/law students only, but the other opportunities are open to all.
    https://wetheaction.org/2020
    After signing up for the list, you’ll get an email (not right away) with the various options you can sign up for.

    In addition to making me feel like I’m doing *something* besides feel endless rage and despair, I think about how I’d feel if we get 4 more years and I didn’t try to help (and hopefully, the opposite will happen and I’ll be glad I did my small part). I myself have never participated in elections in any way other than voting, before this one. This one is different. The consequences of the status quo will be dire for everyone and we will have to live with them in very real and tangible ways (and live with ourselves) for the rest of our lives, and I couldn’t just sit and watch.

  26. Experts are saying more and more that the election won’t be decided until days and possibly weeks afterwards. There could be court battles etc. I tend to spiral out of control with anxiety during big politics-related events happen. I am doing everything under the sun including meds + therapy to get through the next 40 days. I am so worried about election week(s?). Any recommendations? I am thinking of asking for xanax or something (have never taken).

    1. Literally just avoid news and political social media. That’s all you can do. Vote and then protect your mental health. You can’t personally do anything about how things play out after that so tune it out.

    2. No recommendations, just coming to offer virtual hugs. I am an over-planner, I obsess ahead of time so the past six months have been torture. Are you currently living by yourself or with others? I ask bc if my husband knows ahead of time that I expect to completely lose my $hit, he’s very good about being on the lookout for it. However, if I don’t tell him, he doesn’t know, and can’t “see it happening” in real time. So maybe have some very very frank discussions with those people that interact with you a lot, etc.
      Also, I was basically on the verge of asking for meds myself over the summer. Instead I decided that I needed to quit drinking during the week (YMMV). It made a huge difference in my ability to function. I basically only drink Friday afternoon to Sunday afternoon which is a huge step back from what I was drinking in the spring. Again YMMV.

      I am also very, very worried about basically the entire time period between November and January. I am picturing rioting in the streets, being verbally assaulted when I vote, basically not feeling like it’s safe for my kids to leave the house. It also means that it’s highly unlikely I will be able to be in the same room with my parents for the same time period (bc covid plus politics).

    3. I was going to ask a similar question. Even if it’s only one day, I don’t know how I’m going to manage the anxiety. 2016 was almost unbearably awful as I watched Trump get closer to victory with every 538 and NYT refresh, and this feels like it’s going to be 1,000 times worse in terms of anxiety, even if we find out the winner on election day or soon after. If it weren’t for the pandemic, I would think seriously about checking myself into a destination spa for a day or two without any electronic devices. But that’s not really an option right now. I don’t know what to do. My husband is like, LOL just don’t check the news. But….how? How do people have the self-restraint to not do that?

    4. For me, I do what I can to impact the election (voting, giving what is to me a ton of money, writing letters with Vote Forward, seeing if my older relatives who will vote for Biden need any help with voting).

      I’ve made sure that I’m as prepared as I can reasonably be in case there’s supply chain disruption post-election, either due to Covid or Trump lashing out.

      Then, I try to disengage. Be present with my kids. I got busy with a local issue that is important to my family. I checked out some fiction from the library.

    5. I realize that Trump has blown all kinds of norms out of the water, but for what it’s worth, I lived in Tallahassee, FL during the 2000 recount debacle and everywhere except the very small area immediately around the capitol was absolutely business as usual. Even that area wasn’t dangerous; just congested. Tallahassee did not have and probably still doesn’t have the capacity around the capitol to handle a huge press corps and all those vehicles have to park somewhere.
      I hope voter turnout remains strong despite Trump’s shenanigans, so the margin is enough that it signals an unequivocal victory for VP Biden.

    6. Stupid suggestions, but they are things I’m planning for myself:
      1) a couple of craft kits I’m excited to do that are saved for the week after the election,
      2) saving a favorite show’s new season to binge,
      3) not watching any election night coverage,
      4) supplies so I could hunker down if I feel like that’s what I need.

  27. Has anyone successfully given their (male) significant other a quarantine haircut? My fiance wants me to give him one and I’m a bit terrified, hah!! He cut mine a few months ago but mine is easy – just a trim off the bottom. But men’s hair? Holy moly.

    1. Yes. I routinely cut my son’s hair now. I use hair scissors and a haircut style comb (long tailed). Easy enough to order right now. I like the tweezerman hair shears.

      For technique, starting with the back of the head, I comb a small section of hair straight out (so in this case perpendicular to the head, parallel to the floor) and cut it with the scissors pointing up. I might have my scissors angled so that the part closest to the nape of the neck is cut shorter than the hair at the crown. Then I do this all around the back, move to the sides and do the same. For the top, I leave it longer but cut it in such a way, again in sections, that the cuts are angled from the shorter back section to the longer top section.

      Then I clean up the neck edge and sideburn area with a razor.

      I’ve spent years watching my own hairdresser handle the scissors and comb so I figured out how to hold them from her.

      Good luck! You can do this.

      1. I agree with all this advice! I have given my husband five quarantine cuts now with my Tweezerman hair shears (and my daughter, but how to cut her curly hair is a different story). I would recommend shears over clippers — I started off with clippers the first cut and freaked out about how short they were cutting and stopped. I find it much easier to go piece by piece with shears and control the end result (although it does take longer as a result).

    3. It’s actually easy to do with clippers if he has a short style or would be open to one — I picked up an inexpensive version of the clippers at a store and followed the directions on a flier inside the box. I see now that if you go to the website for the Wahl brand of hair clippers, they have directions for various cuts. You can do this!! I’m on like the fifth haircut I’ve given my husband so far and it gets easier every time.

    4. I cut his hair and the dogs’. Used the same tools, too. His was easier, though, because he had some retreating going on along his forehead and you could just sweep the clippers along his scull.

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