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Sales of note for 10.10.24
- Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
- Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
- Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
- White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Ellen
YAY! Elizabeth is becoming quite the fashion expert here, Kat! You are teaching her well; I suppose as an attorney at law, like we are, she has learned how to dress smart, and at the same time, not lose any of the cuteness we need to succeed in this STILL male dominated legal profession! This top typifies what we need to succeed–something to attract the eyes of our partners’and judges, and their need for $exueal gratification, and also, at the same time, something professional to keep the world knowing we are professionals at heart, with a host of education behind us, including BA’s, BS’s, and JD’s, if not more with others who beefed up on other degrees before (or after) getting our JD’s.
I recommend we in the HIVE dress as Corporete suggests, b/c the editors know what we need to wear to succeed. If we don’t, we only have ourselves to blame. Yay Kat, Kate and Elizabeth!
Wannabe Gym Rat
Best gym bags? Will need room for gym shoes and shower shoes. Hoping to start taking advantage of my office gym. It has showers, shampoo, body wash, and hair dryers. Other tips on making it work appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Anonymous
The more things you can leave there (either in your office or in a locker room), the easier it will be!
MagicUnicorn
I just use my old college backpack. I think it is a Jansport? Easily fits everything with room to spare. I like that it fully closes, because I have an irrational fear that an open top tote would result in sweaty underoos somehow falling out of the bag in the elevator in front of coworkers.
Original Moonstone
This happened to me. Black bra fell out of my bag and a colleague reached down to hand it to me. It was bad.
MagicUnicorn
Oh I would want to die!
Apparently mine is a totally rational fear…
thehungryaccountant
I also use a backpack, since I walk to work. I also use a “wet bag” meant for diapers that I picked up from Target. It’s a small zippered pouch- I put my sweaty used workout clothes in here to keep them separate from everything else in my bag. You could also look into picking up a backpack meant for swimmers, they often have pouches to keep sweaty or damp things separate.
#1 tip for consistency: The first thing you should do when you get home is to unpack and repack your gym bag. That way, you don’t need to think about it in the mornings.
Worry about yourself
I’ve seen gym bags on Amazon that have separate compartments for wet and dry stuff, and a compartment in the bottom for gym shoes. They come in rose gold too, last I saw. I’m so tempted but they seem a lot bigger than what I’d want to be using.
Anon
I have a Lululemon tote that I like because it looks like a regular nylon tote.
Nikki Otero
I just use a backpack. Mine has 3 different sections in it. One for shoes, one for clothes, a water bottle holder, and plenty of space leftover for my hip thrust pad.
Anonymous
When I had an office gym, I left my gym bag at work with my shoes and make up (and spare socks and a sports bra). I only carried a change of clothes back and forth in my normal work bag.
Another anon
Yes, this made a big difference to me actually using the office gym. Replace the clothes after you wear them and you’re always ready to go when the motivation strikes.
Vicky Austin
I am also using a backpack today! Having a different gym outfit for each day I go to the gym in a week (usually three) has also really helped. No need to worry about washing anything, just throw the old clothes in the laundry and grab the new set.
Vicky Austin
Obviously I wash my gym clothes…oy. I meant during the week.
Anonanonanon
I am not generally a backpack fan, but I asked my trunk club stylist for an array of gym bags and I settled on a Sweaty Betty backpack that I love. The inside pockets are great (including one internal pocket that seems waterproof that I put my toiletries in) and it has room for shower shoes, robe, and my work clothes. It also has a strap at the bottom to hold your yoga mat
emeralds
Ooh, I’ve been thinking about getting a new commuter backpack and I actually love the idea of that one since I can strap a yoga mat on it! Do you think it would be big enough for gym clothes (no shoes) + laptop + lunch bag?
Anonymous
Pack for for the week. If I plan to work out 3 days that week on Sunday night I pack 3 t-shirts 2 pants and 3 pairs of socks. When I am done I move the dirty item to the wet section of the bag. Saturday I unpack, wash and repack for following week. I also do not shower and wipe down with baby or other body wipes.
Bonus Anon
Associates who aren’t in a lockstep system, do you get a bonus? If yes, how is it calculated? My firm has Minimum X hours. If you hit Goal Y (X + 150), you get 3% of your collected fees. If you hit Goal Z (X + 300), you get 6%.
Associates are not in charge of their collections. Thanks to an incredibly busy summer, I’m recently on track to hit Goal Y. But my cases haven’t collected much of anything, as in, I’d be lucky to get $2k bonus this year. I’d rather take it easy over the fall and holiday season before year end crazy hits and coast to Minimum X hours. Is this a bad plan? Is this bonus structure fantastic and I don’t realize it?
Bonus info
My non-lockstep biglaw firm has a similar bonus structure, but for each tier you get a set dollar amount rather than a percentage of collections. For every 100 hours over Goal X you get a set amount (the amounts depend on class year – for example a mid level would get $10k for the first 100 hours over Goal X, and $15k more for the second 100 hours over).
Someone very senior at my firm once told me that associate compensation and bonuses aren’t tied to collections and are simply tied to hours as collections are generally out of the hands of associates.
Anonymous
This is also what my firm does. We used to do as a percentage of profit over X amount and switched a few years ago (not sure what the theory was, but I think it was probably related to the collections issue). There’s also a discretionary bonus pool of money the practice group leaders get to divvy up.
Anonymous
Why aren’t there collections? Are the cases on contingencies that are going to go past the end of the year? Are there a bunch of end of year deals that will get paid at closings?
Anonymous
this sounds exactly like the bonus structure for my husband’s old firm, and I don’t know a single person who was or still is there that thought it was a good idea at all. Especially as a junior associate and you have a higher chance of getting put on work that’s extremely discounted.
Equestrian attorney
I’m no longer in a firm but my old firm has a bonus structure where if you exceeded X hours, you got 25% of the revenue above that threshold. It also only applied to actually billed revenue, but I don’t think it had be effectively collected (I can’t remember that being an issue, although there was a big file where my time was written off for no reason, which was really frustrating). We also had a discretionary bonus, which in theory applied to things like participation in committees etc, but as the name implies was more or less at the whim of the practice leader.
Anonymous
It’s a fantastic bonus structure if you’re an equity partner protecting your money. It’s a reason to job search as an associate
Anonymous
Look, I’m an old partner now, and I get why it doesn’t seem “fair” to the associates in this system, but think of it from the partner perspective (assuming that’s what you want to be some day) – a bonus is a sharing of profits that would otherwise go to the partners. If they share profits that don’t actually exist (i.e., collections that haven’t panned out or aren’t happening), it dilutes their share at the end of the day.
If your hours are good enough to carry you, step it back a bit if you want (within reason). And question why these matters haven’t paid (i.e., is there a bigger issue with the work or the client).
anon
But if there is a bigger issue with the client, isn’t that the partner’s responsibility to address? I get that partners don’t want to share money they don’t have, but I assume partners also don’t want associates saying no to particular work or particular clients. And it’s a bigger issue with the work, well, I kind of also put that on the partner to address.
Anonymous
True, but the firm still can’t share what it doesn’t have. And a bonus is just that – extra.
Anonymous
I agree with this, especially the recommendation to question why the matters haven’t been paid. If these matters are outliers for the firm — and it’s not a situation where lots of your time was written off due to factors that are arguably your “fault” (i.e., a partner could claim you were inefficient vs the partner agreed to a crazy discount)– you have good standing to approach your practice group leader to request that you get a bonus calculated as though the firm had collected at its typical percentage. Part of a bonus is to align your interests with the firm’s interests, but another part is retention. The firm would be short sighted to penalize a promising associate because a partner picked a bad client and the associate had the bad luck to be staffed on that matter — but again, this only works if your matters are outliers.
If you’re more interested in enjoying a few months of (relative) relaxation – do that. But be subtle and make sure you’re not wildly out of step with your peers’ hours.
To your more general question: this doesn’t seem like a good bonus structure for an associate, but it does have potential for upside and is likely aligned with the financial health of the firm. Conventional wisdom is 1/3 of an associates billings should cover overhead, 1/3 all in comp (including benefits and bonus) and 1/3 profit to the firm (at least, this was conventional wisdom when I was last at a Biglaw firm ~5 years ago). Calculate your billable rate X your annual billable hours minimum target and divide by 1/3. If you know your firm’s average collections rate, throw that in the mix too. How close is this to your salary plus the employer’s cost of your benefits (rough rule of thumb for benefits cost is 30% of salary)? If it’s close, the 3% collections bonus is more generous than if there’s a big gap. You might also find that your salary plus benefits are a much larger percentage of target collections — which isn’t unusual for more junior lawyers.
Anonymous
Have you talked to a mentor about this? Ime there is some room for negotiation in these policies.
Our bonuses are also tied to our collections. We get a straight dollar amount in each tier of hours over our minimum. BUT you have to reach a certain collections threshold to be eligible for any bonus. The burden is on the associate to explain why they should still get a bonus despite a low realization rate. For example, one year I had a huge matter and the client had paid less than half the bill by bonus time. It killed my realization rate. I asked the partner to write a note to my file explaining that the low rate was due to a client issue and not my work. He did and I still got my full bonus. In particular, it makes sense to give the full bonus if the client will eventually pay the bill but just hasn’t when he bonus decision is made.
It’s my understanding that this is a bigger issue for associates in practices that typically bill at much lower rates due to client insurance coverage, etc. It’s basically the firm’s way of limiting bonuses for associates that are in lower-paying practice groups.
AnonMom
How did you learn to be more “selfish”? A combination of cultural and personality-related factors, combined with getting married young-ish has led to me to be kind of a supporting actor or even a prop in my own life. A lot of life decisions are driven by DH’s preferences and conveniences and a lot of smaller choices are driven by kid’s likes.
Somewhere along the way, i fear that i have forgotten what i like and would like to change that.
Anonymous
You don’t need to be “selfish,” just more assertive about your preferences.
anon
But that’s the crux of the issue. I could’ve written this myself. I’ve been so overly accommodating that I don’t even know what I want anymore. That’s where the OP is at.
anon
Solidarity. I feel this way, too. It’s particularly hard because there are some things that I know I don’t want to do, but I have trouble figured out what I would enjoy doing instead, so I’m often in a position of shooting down ideas but not being able to come up with something else.
Go for it
Therapy helped tons. Truly. Plus reading lots of books on codependency ~recommendations from said therapist.
anon
Honestly? My husband had an affair. We stayed together and our relationship has recovered nicely. But the trauma of that experience broke me of all my old habits of constantly trying to please everyone else and never taking care of my own needs. Not sure I recommend that strategy, but man is my life better now, and the people in it (especially my husband) respect me more the more I demand for myself.
anon
Thank you so much for sharing this. I am one month out from discovering my spouse’s affair. I’ve decided to stay to work on our marriage, but it is so hard to imagine that things will ever be better. This is exactly what I needed to hear today.
anon
(I’m the anon at 9:48 – just wanted to say I hear you and I’m sorry it happened and you’re not alone)
When I was one month out, I could not imagine that anything would ever be OK again. Things are OK now, not the same as they were and not perfect, but I’m happy, and we’re without question in it for the long haul. It takes time, and it’s not a linear process.
There was so much pain to get here and we both had to change. But we did and we’re both better people in a better relationship. (There’s also many relationships that should end and people who deserve to get out, so it’s good to keep that in mind too. It’s OK to take the time you need to figure that question out for yourself).
Monday
Ditto for my husband leaving me. I learned from that that a woman can do everything she is expected to do, culturally, and still end up lonely and humiliated. I am now far more oriented toward what I want to do regardless of what will supposedly result from it. I’m also a lot happier, though that took a while.
cbackson
This is so, so true. My divorce was incredibly awful but it broke me forever of being a passenger in my life.
Anonanonanon
I was actually going to say a divorce as well. Jeez, we’re a grim group!
Anon
For what it’s worth, it will be good for your kids to see their mom have interests and needs of her own.
anon
This. My mom threw herself into mine and my siblings lives and her job and rarely did anything for herself. My dad treated her horribly and I’m sure she was miserable for our entire childhood.
I think it also had to do with the fact that my father had the power of the purse and thus she felt like she couldn’t speak up. In light of all of the recent conversations about why moms work, the one reason I keep working is to stay on more less equal footing to my husband.
Triangle Pose
Last sentence, + 1M
Anon
The other outcome is that you can wind up with kids who think the world revolves around them. I don’t care if it’s quilting or doing interviews with NPR or anything in between, but it’s good for mothers to have their own interests and their own lives. It sets an example for their kids.
anne-on
+1. Yes, I wish I had a bit more time with kiddo during the week but I absolutely want him to know that our world does not revolve around him, that my work contributes to our family in a concrete way, and that parents deserve to have hobbies/activities too (ie – our weekend is not JUST about running from one kid sport/activity to another).
Anon.
This. I think it’s especially important children growing up without siblings.
Anon
Try to let go of what you think you “should” be doing and focus on what you actually want to be doing. For me, it happened kind of naturally when I turned 30 but in your case I would actually sit down and do it as a thought exercise.
In my case, I’ve never been someone who makes friends easily or has a lot of friends. For years I felt…guilty? I guess about the fact that I only have a few close friends and none of them live near me. I spent years trying – and mostly failing – to make local friends and being miserable. And I felt like if anyone deigned to hang out with me, I basically had to be friends with them, because I had so few friends. And then I realized…I don’t want to be a social butterfly. Some people need a lot of friends and a full social calendar to be happy, but I don’t. I’m happiest when I’m on my own or spending time with family. And a lot of my “friends” were not good for me, and being in an unfulfilling relationship can be a lot more lonely than being on your own (I once did a business trip with a colleague who brought his wife and they refused to hang out with me and I felt so lonely, even though I would have been totally content doing the trip solo!) So I let go of some “friends” who weren’t really friends at all and I stopped working so hard at trying to make new friends and I’m a million times happier.
Anon
At some point along the way, it really clicked for me that when I am feeling resentful of others for having needs/wants/boundaries/etc, it is really a sign that I am not doing enough to assert these things for myself. Being “selfish” has really helped these feelings melt away – it’s been incredible to see how improving my relationship with myself has made more room for better relationships with other people.
I started really small with all of this. I felt like you do now when I was in grad school, and I started booking a yoga class one or two evenings a week, and then really defending that time. For me, it was less about immediately finding my favorite thing in the world (spoiler: it is not yoga), and more about just starting to set a little boundary. That simple practice, really a baby step, opened the door to so much else. It takes time and trial and error to learn what you like and want, so just make some space for yourself to start.
Anon
I agree with this. Don’t put pressure on yourself to figure everything out this instant. Find a placeholder activity, like going to yoga or taking a dance class, and try that for a month just to get used to carving time out for yourself. Start the habit first and the introspection later.
Anon
+1 to this. Any class; the park district will have some that aren’t expensive. For your kids it’s a good lesson to see their mom trying something new (and maybe something outside your comfort zone); you’re giving them an example of a growth mindset, which will serve them well. Another side benefit is it’ll put you in a community of people, some of whom will be kind and supportive.
anon
Treating yourself with basic self-respect and dignity is not selfish.
That said I’ve been there. How I got better was I got to a breaking point where I was about ready to walk away from my life and marriage. I started by truly thinking about what I WANTED and needed in order to be happy. Some of my things were a feeling of equality in parenting, not having to manage everything in our household, living in a generally tidy and clean space (visual chaos stresses me out badly), not constantly feeling like I was on the verge of forgetting something, having time to myself alone in our house once a week, having time to socialize or pursue my hobbies outside the house at least once a week.
It has taken two and a half years of gradual changes, hard conversations, assuming good intentions, and trial and error but my life looks almost exactly how I want it to.
I started with things I had control over. I began to develop habits that made my life less chaotic and made me have fewer things to remember. And I hired a cleaning lady. Then I had a talk with my husband about how I wanted him to “take initiative” with some aspect of our common domestic life. He took over the entire food process- grocery shopping, meal planning, and cooking. The phrase “emotional labor” means nothing to most men. The phrase “take initiative” is something they grasp. I try to divide up parenting tasks sort of evenly and in chunks. I handle the getting ready and out the door and school drop off process mostly by myself and my husband handles pickup and bedtime mostly by himself. I also signed up for something I wanted to do every Wednesday and go do it. Husband has a thing he does once a week too. Kiddo has two activities per week.
When I first thought of all the things I wanted, I thought they were impossibly selfish. I thought I would be asking for “too much”. But every step of the way, my husband has stepped up to the plate. It has made me so so happy and grateful and our marriage is so much better. I’m also a better mom because I’m not stressed and angry all the time. When you are happy and fulfilled and don’t feel taken advantage of, you will be a better mother and wife.
Anonymous
This is wonderful. Loved hearing how you went about your process of making these hard changes. Go you!
anon
“The phrase “take initiative” is something they grasp. ”
I really like this.
Anon
I really fear this happening if I have kids. I know so many mothers who seem to live through their children and who dedicate every waking hour to their activities and it can be a slippery slope to having no clear personality for yourself if you let it. That’s partially why I’ve been so vigilant about developing my own hobbies and interests in advance of having children because I know that when new life challenges hit (either babies or flare-ups of my chronic illness), I’ll have already done the “what do I even like” guesswork. I know it will still be hard and that babies take up a lot of time, but I’m hopeful that I will be able to pursue my own interests from birth on. I’ve seen a lot of women manage it and several have told me that it was so, so important.
Anonanonanon
Some concrete suggestions, one mom to another:
-Find a workout class you want to do, and go. Protect that time. Protect it like you would a work commitment. Your partner does not get to schedule over that time without checking with you. If they do, you can calmly give them the babysitter’s number to arrange
-Restaurant recommendations- Speak up if you don’t like steak and you are going to a steak house yet again. I’d advise having a couple of alternate suggestions in your pocket, but if your partner wants you to be happy (and they should), they should want you to be able to eat something you can enjoy.
-Split kid dropoff and pickup. My husband does mornings, I do pickup. We DO NOT assume the other will cover for us without checking first. This means I can get up at 5 and go to a cool 6am workout class I want to try without more than a “by the way Im going to sneak out early tomorrow”. I don’t even particularly enjoy working out, but that shared responsibility and the equality/freedom I feel from it make all the difference in the world. Sometimes it’s nice to go and shower and get dressed/do my makeup in their spa-like locker rooms without kids around.
-Don’t constantly serve your partner, they’re an adult. I’ll make a dinner for the kids, but if I’m not hungry or I’d rather have cheese and crackers than a full meal, I’m not going to cook for my husband. He can fend for himself. If I don’t want to eat it, I’m not going to cook it.
XStitcher
I work in a very small law firm. The office manager/administrative assistant is going to have her 30th anniversary of working here in a little over a month. She’s expecting (and is very deserving of) a gift, but I’m struggling with what to get her. Money would be the obvious, but she is the type of person that really expects a gift to be picked out especially for her. She loves Alex and Ani bracelets, but those are a bit below the price point that I was considering. I think she has a Pandora bracelet, but doesn’t wear it often. Is there something comparable to Alex and Ani but slightly more extravagant that I’m overlooking? Any other thoughts/ideas?
Veronica Mars
If you know she likes Alex and Ani, why not get her a stack of them. Or necklace + earrings + bracelet and a gift receipt?
Anonymous
What about an Alex and Ani set or “stack”?
Anon
Any of the necklaces from Tiffany would be good in this case. They run about $200 and if she doesn’t like it, she can exchange it for something else very easily. We did this for someone similar in my old office and she had never had something from Tiffany so was really happy about the whole blue box experience. The David Yurman sunburst collection also has a nice bracelet that is about $450 if you’re looking for a higher pricepoint.
Clementine
Absolutely agree that a Tiffany necklace would be so appreciated for what it is.
Anon
Concur with this.
Saguaro
For someone that worked for me that had a big anniversary, I did one of the Tiffany bracelets and had the number of years engraved on the back of the charm. Tiffany’s will do the engraving.
Cat
I like the Tiffany suggestion but would not have it engraved because it means she can’t exchange it.
Nikki Otero
How about an engraved watch?
Irish Midori
Watches are lovely, but only if she doesn’t already wear one. I find in the age of smart watches, regular watches sometimes don’t get worn.
XStitcher
Thanks all for the suggestions!
Lunch near 30 Rockefeller Ctr?
Coming in for a meeting with two coworkers and looking for a nice, casual place to eat — not fancy, but steak for them and veggie option for me would be great. Thanks in advance!
anon
Try La Bonne Soupe on 55th between 5th and 6th. There are tons of options around Rock Center, but many of the places with steak cater to people on expense accounts. La Bonne Soupe is old school charm, but reasonably priced. There are also lots of fast-ish places for people grabbing lunch and going back to their offices. Have fun!
anne-on
+1 – I eat there often when meeting girlfriends who work in Midtown. Their soups really are very good as are their desserts.
Penny Lane
Valerie on 45th Street
Pompom
BLIMPIES.
Sorry, couldn’t pass up a 30 Rock reference (oh, Lutz…)
Anon
We recently moved to a new city. I just learned from a very credible source that quite a few adults in my neighborhood (including my direct neighbors) use racial slurs and make derogatory comments about non-white people. (I’m not white myself.) I’m depressed and anxious about it. Every time I see these people, it’s in the back of my mind. We can’t move, so I need to cope, I just don’t know a good place to start. Therapy?
Nikki Otero
Just remember that people like that lack character, which should never define you as a person. I have gone through my fair share of racism, particularly when we were in upstate New York. Know your worth, ignore them, speak your mind when you have to, and you will be okay.
Anonymous
I mean yes this is most places. Like, this country elected Trump because most white people are racist. So Id carry on living however you did before.
Anon
That makes me so sad!
Anon
It’s sad but it’s true – 53% of white women and 65% of white men voted for Trump.
Anon
53% of white women *who voted*.
Obviously the others didn’t care enough to vote so they stood by and let it happen, but nonetheless I think it harms our cause to misquote this.
Anon
Do you really have to interact with these people? In every city I’ve lived in I’ve been able to establish a nice community of similarly minded people, who 99% of the time were not neighbors or even in my neighborhood. Thinking about having to be around these people and interacting with them puts such an unnecessary burden on you and living at a constant low level of stress is very harmful to your health (this is actually one of the theories on why certain ethnic communities in the U.S. have higher rates of stress related illnesses not found at such high rates in similar populations of other countries).
The best way to cope is to have a hi and bye relationship with these people. You’re new, you have no previously established social obligation to these people. Honestly, at this point I think of my neighbors as much as I think of a random lady I’ve seen more than once at the grocery store. A gentle nod of acknowledgment and move on.
OP
It seems like a pretty close knit neighborhood where all the parents get together and the kids are similar ages. We’ve never been included, but I’ve chalked that up to (i) we are new and they don’t know us yet and (ii) I’m one of the very few working moms so I’m not around a lot. It’s lonely, but I’m an adult. I’ll be ok. I worry about the kids.
Anon
You can intentionally create communities for your kids outside of your neighborhood. My parents did this when I was younger. We did YMCA camps in the summer and weekends where we made friends and they enrolled us in kid fitness classes (ballet, karate, gymnastics) that weren’t “neighborhood” spots but not far (ex. a karate studio 3-5 miles from the house). They also enrolled us in community service oriented children’s organizations, specifically ones geared toward our cultural community, so that we had at least one place where we weren’t otherized. I really don’t think your kids will feel left out. I had one friend in my neighborhood growing up and don’t feel like I missed out on anything.
Anonymous
Honestly, it may be that. This is true on my street. We’re white. 90% of my street is. We are very clearly the “excluded” family because I’m the only mom that works full-time outside the home (several work full time but from home).
Anonymous
Same here. We are the excluded family because I work full-time and our daughter plays sports and doesn’t spend her afternoons and weekends running unsupervised in the street with the other kids. We are the same race as everyone else on the street.
Anon
Guys, please don’t do that. The racism still exists and it’s real. You’re not in the same boat. I’m anxious because I’m surrounded by racism. I understand that it’s always been the case, but I never felt it this close. I worry about the kids because what they will see, hear or feel…particularly about black and brown people.
Anonymous
When I was single, I obviously worked and my married mom friends moved out of our city and never included me in anything except maybe one kid’s first birthday party and maybe an xmas open house. When I got married and had kids, I thought I’d get invited back. Nope. I still had a job. So now no one wants to play with me (which is fine, but I don’t want my kids excluded from things just b/c mommy works).
Anon
Same, we’re also the excluded family – we’re white but I’m the only mom that works outside the home.
Anonymous
OMG this is me. I just thought they didn’t like me. This is eye-opening!. Thank you.
rosie
I mean, I’m sure this happens to white women, too, but when a OP, who is not white, says she feels excluded because of reasons (and one of those reasons is race-related), let’s believe her.
Seventh Sister
I’m so sorry you have to go through this racist nonsense from your neighbors. I never try to dissuade people from therapy, I think it’s a great thing!
In terms of the kids, maybe getting involved with a structured community organization might help. People seem less likely to exclude others when they need volunteers for the local family festival or the Fourth of July bike parade.
Anonymous
But wait..who would tell you this after you’ve moved in and can’t do anything about it. That’s toxic. Reminds me of a “friend” at work who loves to tell me whenever anyone says something negative about me. I would shoot the messenger, or at least cut them off, and not worry about it.
cbackson
I am really sorry and while I have never had this experience, I can imagine that it would feel both intensely isolating and frightening for you. If you opt for therapy, I would vote CBT because it’s very helpful for addressing intrusive thoughts and anxiety and helping you distinguish between when you’re experiencing real fear vs. a sort of negative thought-loop that isn’t a rational response to your circumstances. I have found it really helpful because when the situation *is* validly frightening/dangerous, I’m now more able to identify that and to respond (and when I’m caught in a cycle of anxiety, I’m more able to identify that too and to help those feelings move along).
I’m sorry again. This really sucks.
anne-on
Therapy will help you reframe how you want to deal with these neighbors and allow you to have a safe space to vent your fears. I’d also work hard to ID some ‘safe’ spaces you can build community with your kids. I’d also give yourself permission to be angry/mad/sad/etc.
Also, how old are your kids? It might be worth talking with your partner and therapist about how you might need to have ‘the talk’ with them – ie, our neighbors may target you/call the police on you for doing things with your friends (hanging out on the stoop, coming in through the back door, cutting across their property) that they wouldn’t with white kids. That sucks. Full stop. But let them know it isn’t about THEM. I may be overreacting but I’m also thinking about the neighbor that called the police on a teenage boy of color who ‘broke into’ his own house after forgetting his keys. It ended badly for the boy. I totally get why you’re scared here.
lsw
I’m so sorry, OP. I hope you can quickly find who is worth a &$#@ in your neighborhood and make some solid connections that will allow you to more easily put up with the racist BS.
Anonymous
For you creative decorating types – is there a user friendly/semi easy way to design a tile pattern for a bathroom floor? I’m not trying to do anything too complicated (I don’t think), but basically I want to use black and white hex tiles, have mostly white titles, a black border, and a black diamond design in the middle of the room. I downloaded the free version of sketch up and I cannot seem to figure it out. I also have graph paper, but I am trying to figure out the scale piece of it and my brain isn’t cooperating. Our contractor says he can do the pattern, no big deal, I just need to get him a design. Let me know if you have any suggestions.
Anonymous
What about a picture? Is there anything on Houzz or Pinterest that looks similar?
ATL rette
I’d just do a rough sketch in graph paper and shade in the ones I want to be black…if you want a specific sized diamond, I’d use rough dimensions (like 2’ wide x 1’ tall or whatever) and indicate that on the sketch. I don’t think he needs a specific tile-by-tile design, just an idea of what you’re looking for and an idea of measurements.
Sutemi
You can print out hexagonal graph paper at http://www.printfreegraphpaper.com. Can you tape together multiple pieces and color them in?
Boss Appreciation Post
Sorry for the glee. After many years which I can even only kindly describe as a dystopia I am finally at a new job and my new boss is the kindest, most supportive person I have ever met. I’ve only been here a few months but we already have a promotion plan in place with performance bench marks, good management is such a treat I have to remind myself that this is real. Squee, I am so happy.
Ducky
Congrats! I love my boss too and it makes it so much easier to have a positive outlook when things are stressful at work.
Legally Brunette
Yay! My boss is the best as well. Super duper smart, not a micromanager, gives praise where praise is warranted, and is understanding when I need to call in sick because kids. I hit the jackpot.
Anon
Me too…I can totally relate to this. I was so exhausted due to bad manager/management in my previous jobs and had given up any hopes of moving ahead in my career. Now, I come to work happy to work and see myself progressing.
Anonymous
As someone who is currently on job 2 of dystopia, this gives me a little hope that it doesn’t have to be dystopia.
Anonymous
Ok, I recognize this is a basic question, but I’m a total fitness novice with a lot of anxiety about it. I do pretty decently on regular cardio (nothing dramatic but consistent dance classes and long walks) but no strength training. As a result of truly minimal exertion I am sore all over and clearly need to build strength in my legs, core, back, shoulders, and arms.
I have a vague sense that I can begin to work on this with body weight exercises in my apartment. I think y’all fit people do planks? Maybe lunges? Could anyone point me in the direction of a simple beginner friendly routine?
Anon
At home pilates might be helpful, starting with light weights (seriously 3lb weights). Or working with bands might be helpful as well, you can find tons of good youtube videos on workouts with bands. They take up almost no space (all of my bands are elastic and can fit up rolled into my back pockets).
Anonymous
I was you. I bought 5 sessions with a trainer to develop a total body strength routine. The convenience, expertise, and amount of research it saved me was SO worth it.
MagicUnicorn
Yoga with Adrienne videos! I just scroll through and pick one that either targets my mood, time available, body part I want to focus on, etc.
emeralds
Apparently this is my YouTube fitness recommendation for everything, but Yoga with Adriene could be a good fit! She has a lot of beginner-friendly routines ranging from 15 minutes to an hour-ish, that all incorporate gentle body weight exercises and will also help with flexibility.
And personally, as someone who also struggles to find motivation to cross-train, I’m more likely to do yoga than just like…plank for 90 seconds in my living room. Even if it functionally all adds up to the same thing.
anonymous
FitnessBlender on YouTube
Legally Brunette
+ 1
these videos changed my life and I’m now probably in better shape than I was before I got pregnant. It’s amazing that they are free.
Here’s a good one to start out with. It’s very simple and basic, but it’s challenging.
https://www.fitnessblender.com/videos/lean-arms-workout-rhomboids-shoulders-bicep-tricep-and-chest
Anon
I’ve found some of the beginner videos too challenging when I’ve had to come back from periods of inactivity, which makes me feel discouraged. Try this instead as your base and then ramp up over time:
10 squats
10 knee push-ups
30-second plank
30-second side planks
20 glute bridges
Repeat once if you’d like.
PolyD
Planks and push-ups and squats would get the major muscles. Look up how to do them, though, if you never have. Especially push-ups – no shame for doing them on your knees but I see so many women who just lower their heads and shoulders, not their whole bodies. A good push-up is exhausting and works pretty much your whole body, of course mainly your arms but there’s a lot of core work involved to keep your body level.
Anon
There’s a body weight fitness subreddit that has some good routines!
Aunt Jamesina
Fitness Blender videos online! They’re completely free and not at all intimidating. I started about a year and a half ago in the same place as you, and I feel so much more confident in my workouts now.
Anonymous
Thanks everyone! This is so helpful
Coach Laura
NYTimes has a seven minute body weight workout. It has a free app that I’ve set up on my phone. There is also an advanced workout that you can progress to if you want to at some point. It’s called “The Scientific 7-minute Workout” and “The Advanced…”
anon
So, DH and I had a depressing conversation last night about my current job situation, which is pretty crappy in a lot of ways. During the course of the conversation, he told me that he wishes I could learn how to focus less on the imperfections of any given situation, and appreciate more of the joy and positive aspects. It felt pretty crappy in the moment. Does he seriously not realize that the reason why i didn’t walk out of my job MONTHS ago is because I am reminding myself DAILY about what this job brings us and our family? That wasn’t the tenor of the whole conversation — it was a side note — but it hurt. However, I also know he’s partially right and that some of my thoughts are driving my anxiety. How do I become a more positive, less anxious person? I have been seeing a therapist and progres is … slow. And then I hate myself for not being able to be a more go-with-the-flow type of person.
Anon
Tell him what you said here! Also, hugs. My mom is one of those “Just choose to be happy” people. I love her dearly but it’s very frustrating to me.
anon
Hugs, this is hard. I’ve been working on being more positive and less of a complainer for years. A couple suggestions:
Someone told me a long time ago that men want to fix things. It makes them anxious when women vent because they can’t fix anything. So I’ve learned to preface my conversations with “I don’t expect you to do anything, just listen, or pretend you are listening” and it helped a lot with my relationship with DH.
I’ve also learned that no one likes complainers. When I’m really struggling with something, I now journal it rather than venting to my husband. Journaling also helps me understand what I’m feeling and why.
It’s a fine line between being opinionated and passionate and whiney. I’m still learning and this is something I will struggle with my whole life, but being conscious this behavior helps.
anon
yes to this re men wanting to fix things. google it’s not about the nail video and show your DH
Vicky Austin
All of this holds true for me too. Journaling, if I really just sit down and write what I’m honestly feeling, helps. No production, no play acting, no self-editing. No trying to make it perfect. If I try to make it perfect, I very often end up feeling like journaling encourages me to whine without ever coming to a real solution and then I stop doing it.
Secondly, when venting to my husband about work at the end of the day, I have a fifteen-minute hard stop rule. If I’m still airing grievances after fifteen minutes, either I’m milking it too much or this is a problem that merits a non-weeknight discussion. YMMV – my husband and I work at the same place, so I almost never have to explain backstory, which is why my time window is shorter. You might need 20 or 30 minutes, or decide to not have vent time during dinner, or what have you. But some sort of boundary will help you and your listener.
anon
I have always been high strung. I reached a bit of a breaking point a few weeks ago amidst a really terrible longterm project at work and got a meditation app (Insight Timer). I have always thought meditation was a little hocus pocus but it definitely seems to be helping my stress level/ability to disengage from job stress, which in turn opens me up to more of the joy around me. I’m not sure I’m even really paying attention/doing well at the meditations when I’m doing them, but later in the day I’ll realize that I just feel a lot more relaxed than before I did the app and there will be no other reason why.
anon
Honestly, meds. I’m kind of like you. I used to be far more negative and complain-y and down than I currently am. That transition was made possible by self-awareness, intentional efforts to stop myself from verbally expressing displeasure at my prior rate, getting my butt kicked by life and gaining perspective. (And also, resolving obviously stressful situations like underemployment/bad jobs.) But at the end of the day I am still a person who has a brain wired for anxiety and mild depression, which results in complaining and negativity and stress. This is the opinion of a therapist I’ve seen for 5 years and multiple psychiatrists, and reflected in family history. All this is to say, sometimes CBT and willing yourself to be “better” won’t cut it. You’ve gotta dig deep in that therapy to figure out why you’re not a go with the flow person. There are reasons. It’s not just that you are inherently a stick in the mud who likes to whine and be sad. Maybe its biochemistry, maybe it’s thought patterns, maybe both. By way of example, for me it was/is attaching myself worth to my job and placing outsized importance on anything related to that; deep fear of failure; excessive intellectual analysis and rumination to try to ‘resolve’ issues; fear of vulnerability; rigid reliance on structure; intolerance for uncertainty; and a constellation of other weird ideas from childhood (<— how could someone possibly go with the flow with all that nonsense clanging around in your head and driving your behavior!?); and biochemistry.
Anonymous
OMG, no, the answer to a terrible job is not meds. It’s a better job.
anon
OMG come on. Obviously that would be ideal. But I’m sure OP thought about getting a new job, right? There’s gotta be some reason why she hasn’t been able to move to a better job or she would have, right? Unless you think OP’s an absolute idiot and it just never crossed her mind to get a better job. So what’s she supposed to do in the mean time? Continue to suffer? Continue in a state that strains her relationship? I’d love to hear your responses. Also, you know what can help you do the things you need to do to get a better job? Meds.
Artemis
And please remember that getting a new job is not entirely within her control. You can apply, you can spruce up your resume, you can write a great cover letter, you can network like crazy . . . and you can still not get a new job right away. It’s hard to cope with wanting to change something (your job) and realize so much of it is out of your control (the black hole of job hunting these days, where you’re never sure if a person ever sees your stuff). So not everyone can find a job in two months. Maybe it’s two years. And maybe meds help someone get through that period, because meds and seeing a doctor are totally within her control.
Triangle Pose
“But at the end of the day I am still a person who has a brain wired for anxiety and mild depression, which results in complaining and negativity and stress.” Hope this helps you OP. I hope you can be gentler with yourself, your comment struck me as treating yourself really harshly.
Anon
Have you considered getting another job? It is entirely possible that you are so miserable at your job that even when you are consciously toning done your negativity about it around your husband, you still come off as depressed and miserable. I had a very brief stint at a miserable job right out of law school, and I kept reminding myself that I was thankful to have the job etc. and would tell people that when I asked. My husband told me after I got a new job that I came off as depressed with mood swings, etc., the entire time I was at the bad job and that he was concerned about my mental health when I was there even though I thought I was largely hiding my negative feelings about the job.
Triangle Pose
I’m sorry you’re going through this, don’t hate yourself for not being “go with the flow.” It can be hard to hear this from DH, this might just be one aspect where you are mis matched, but that doesn’t mean you should change yourself, you can work through it in therapy and both communicate with each other so it doesn’t impede your marriage.
I am a “choose to be happy” person like another commenter’s mom but I would never tell anyone else that just because it works for me. But I do find that it stresses me out to be around “brooding” guys or “negative nancies” at work or in relationships. I have a lot of the drive to fix things and I realize in my relationship with my ex that he was always fixated on the parts of his life that made him unhappy and it made me try to fix it which in turn made me miserable. It’s the same at work when there is someone who constantly gets in their own way with negativity disguised at “real talk” about projects and then wonders why promotions and goodwill don’t flow their way. I’m not saying this is you, there is a spectrum to positivity and “go with the flow” and anziety, I’m saying that I’ve learned ways to manage these differences in perspective and you can too.
Style crossroads
What would you wear to a casual workplace (think leggings, old navy swing dresses) if as a size 14 hourglass, wearing something that fits well looks dressed up, and wearing something loose looks like a bad fit? I wear dresses and skirts mostly, but due to my shape look fancier— I don’t mind fancy, but I’m wondering if there are alternatives I haven’t considered?
Anonymous
I’d wear jeans with a blazer or other structured topper.
Style crossroads
Thank you! I have been introducing a couple of black skinny jeans more — I like the look with a structured top— I’m currently looking for jeans to accommodate bloating — this is why I favour dresses.
Anonanonanon
I have crohn’s/ulcerative colitis and I have maternity jeans/pants for when I’m in a flare and need something that can accommodate a bloated belly. I ordered them online.
Style crossroads
Thank you, I will try these too— my bloating is hormonal, but still painful at times, especially with the wrong pants.
Anon
Athleta sculptek jeans are great for that.
Anonymous
Jeggings for bloat days.
Anonymous
I really love Eileen Fisher pants for this. They have the right look for my office but have enough stretch (especially in the waist) that I can be comfortable in them no matter how I’m feeling that day.
Style crossroads
Thank you for all the pants suggestions. It’s good to know I have all these options I wasn’t aware of before!
anon
I would wear a casual blazer, blouse, dark jeans, and nice shoes. There is a woman in a neighboring department (I’m guessing she’s roughly your size) who has basically adopted this as a uniform and always looks great and put together.
Anon
Eh OP’s work environment sounds super casual (leggings!). I work in a pretty casual place but not casual enough for leggings, and when I wear a blazer, dark jeans, a blouse and nice shoes I get a billion “why are you so dressed up!?” comments.
Style crossroads
This is true — I’ve seen jeans with sweaters and simple tops— mostly skinny jeans, with a few bootcuts here and there!
Anonymous
But, I mean, do you care? My response would be “I’m comfortable and appropriate.” Looking nice at work is a good thing. Don’t let people criticize it. That said…I definitely wouldn’t feel the need to stick to black/dark jeans in that casual of an environment.
Style crossroads
I not sure that people are criticizing me, more that im in my 40ssnd want to be current but have my own style.
Biggest Balls in the Room
Could you do something like structured skirts (I have some stretchy pencil skirts that I adore) and pair it with a more casual top and toms style shoes? When I was working in a more casual workplace I was about your size and I did this daily. I kept a blazer in my office and a pair of simple flats for situations where I might have to dress things up.
Style crossroads
Thank you:) I like this idea.
Anon
I would avoid blazers. If the office is so causal that leggings are acceptable, I really think a blazer will just add to the feeling that you are overdressed. I would wear jeans (skinny, just because that is my preference) with looser tops or a dress with a cardigan or mojo jacket (jean maybe).
Or I would decide that I don’t care, which is what I did when I moved from BigLaw to the government. I wasn’t going to buy a whole new wardrobe, so I just continued to wear my existing clothing and tried to mix a more causal piece with my existing work dresses.
Style crossroads
I think I’m heading in this direction— I like to wear what is my style and what looks good, even if it does not always jive with work culture. As a result though, my cardigan and soft motto jacket collection is increasing!
Adult ballet starters?
Ive not been to the gym in two years. I have bad wrists and it was just aggravating them.
So I’ve signed up for a once-weekly adult ballet class. What do I wear? What should I expect? Any advice? TIA
Anon
Is this an instructive class or a fitness class akin to barre?
As for what to wear, go in stretchy fitness pants/leggings, fitness top (something closer fitting to the body, not a flowing shirt) and grippy bottom socks.
Anonymous
Do not ever wear grippy socks to ballet class. In ballet your feet need to slide across the floor, not stick to it.
Anonymous
Call the studio and ask! There’s a lot of variety. I wear leggings and a tight top and ballet slippers
Monday
Wear any workout clothes, ideally not baggy so the teacher can observe your form easily. Most people will be wearing leggings or leotards. Have bare feet or ballet slippers, but not socks unless they have grips on the soles–you would slide around otherwise. An adult beginner class is not going be sweaty or strenuous. It will involve a lot of focus on posture and foot positions. It feels much more artistic than athletic at this level. Enjoy!
Anonymous
Have fun! Some studios require leotards for adults; most are more flexible so I’d check with them on dress code. In my classes, I usually wore a yoga top or fitted tee with tight-fitting yoga pants, but there was a mix of leotards/tights, running tights, etc. I wore split sole jazz shoes but most people wore split sole ballet slippers. Form fitting clothes are key so the teacher can look at your body positioning.
There will usually be a barre portion for the first 20 minutes with classic exercises (even the pros warm up this way!), then a portion in the center of the room, and finally a portion “across the floor”. . . leaps, etc.
This is making me want to pick up classes again :)
BB
I did this once (it was a free class). Lots of fun, but oh my god, you will have aches in muscles you didn’t know you had! I’m in the gym doing cardio 6 days a week, but ballet uses all sorts of weird muscles that normal gym machines don’t hit. It goes away and I’m sure you’ll build up strength after a few classes!
Equestrian attorney
I do ballet and love it! It had done some as a kid, but was definitely a total beginner at my first adult class 3 years ago. I would wear leggings, a comfortable but close fitting top, and ideally some ballet slippers (easy to find affordable ones online, no need for anything fancy). Ballet is fun and really helps with my back pain, posture and flexibility.
Anonymous
Start with leggings and a fitted tank top until you see what others are wearing and get a sense of what you might be comfortable with. In my adult classes most people wear a camisole or cap-sleeve leotard, rolled-up convertible tights, and some sort of shorts or sweater tights for barre, then switch to a skirt for center work. Many people like to wear a fitted t-shirt, a thin fitted sweater, or a fitted workout jacket for the first couple of barre exercises until their muscles get warmed up. Legwarmers may or may not be frowned upon at your school, and it may be against the rules to pull them down over the heels of your shoes.
You will definitely need ballet shoes. My school will not permit anyone to take ballet class barefoot for safety reasons, even though modern classes require bare feet. Have your shoes fitted at a real dance store because the sizing is meaningless–I have one pair that’s a 5.5 and another that’s an 8. Some schools and teachers require full-sole ballet shoes for kids because they supposedly help develop the foot muscles. I prefer split-sole because they make it easier to point your feet and they make your feet look prettier than full-sole, and I’ve never had a teacher object to them in an adult class. Don’t wear socks under your ballet shoes unless you want them to be stretched out–tights or bare feet only. You will probably need to sew on the elastics yourself; ask the salesperson how. Definitely buy the little sewing kit at the dance store even if you have needle and thread at home because the dance-specific supplies work better.
Your hair needs to be all the way up and off your face and neck. If your ponytail is long enough to whack you in the face when you turn, put it in a tight, secure bun. If your hair is too short for a French braid or ponytail but any longer than a pixie, clip it securely back from your face.
Do not be the first person in line at the barre and don’t stand in the front line for center work or across-the-floor. Watch and listen carefully to pick up on the routines and etiquette of class. If there are experienced dancers in the class, stay out of their way or they will get annoyed with you (ask me how I know). Listen to the corrections the teacher gives other students and try to apply them yourself. When the teacher is giving the exercise, don’t just watch–“marking” the exercise by following along with small movements will help you remember. Above all, have fun and enjoy yourself!
PolyD
In my adult ballet class, it’s about evenly split between leotards and tights and form-fitting yoga wear. I agree with others that proper ballet slippers really will help you get the most out of your class. I’d find a dance store to get your first pair, but once you find a brand and size you like, Zappos sells ballet slippers. There are brands that come with the elastics sewn on, which I prefer because I suck at sewing.
I disagree with the commenter above who said it will feel more artistic than athletic. I think it’s hard to feel artistic when you are still learning the basics – heck, I still have classes when I feel kind of “off” so I sigh and tell myself, Well, this will just be an exercise class, not art. My 1.5 hour class spends about 40 minutes at the barre, and at first it doesn’t feel like much but by the end you are pretty tired!!
I strongly encourage adults to take ballet. It’s so good for your legs and core, and can really get you out of your head, because you can’t focus on the steps if you are fretting about work or something.
OP
Thanks SO much. My last lesson was when I was 4! I’m 60 now… terrified. So.out.of.shape.
The class is designated for beginners.
I’ll go with the yoga top and a pair of 90 degree leggings for the first time. I actually own none so had to buy them…
I did get some full sole ballet slippers and are waiting for the split soles to arrive.
Being Sicilian and in our hot, humid climate, I’m sure to be sweaty… oh well.
My hair is at my clavicle, can I put it into a low braid? No way I can get it to “stay” in a bun.
PLEASE tell me about the footless tights being convertible? Are they thick so they won’t snag on the barre?
Finally, I’m guessing going commando in the leggings or a leotard/tights situation is a no go? Size 12-14 I am in street clothes.
Yes, I am still excited. Thanks So Much.
This is a once weekly class, so I’m hoping to have “homework” so I can start muscle development…
Anonymous
Going commando in leotard and tights is standard regardless of size. I wouldn’t find it comfortable in leggings, but that has nothing to do with size. Do whatever makes you feel comfortable.
Ballet tights are not super thick, but they are thicker and sturdier than non-dance (fashion) tights and will not snag on the barre. (BTW, it is actually very cool to wear tights with runs and other shabby worn-out gear to class, although this may be against the dress code at some studios.) Do not wear fashion tights to ballet class.
Convertible tights have a slit in the foot so you can get your foot out of the tights and roll the tights up your ankle. They are useful if you have to be able to put wool or pads around your toes before putting on pointe shoes. I am not on pointe, but I like being able to roll my tights up if I get hot during class or want to wear flip-flops on the way to class.
A low braid is a bad idea because it will swing around and hit you in the face. Can you pin the braid to your head?
Anonymous
Gymnastics mom bun trick: Make a high ponytail and divide it into two sections. Braid each section separately, even if the resulting braids are quite short. Wrap one braid around the base of the ponytail, securing liberally with hairpins (the old-fashioned kind, not bobby pins). Repeat with other braid. Wrap hair elastic or scrunchie around the whole thing. Coat with hairspray.
Not a traditional ballet bun, but works with shorter hair and stands up to a lot of centrifugal force.
PolyD
And really, you are going for function, not form. Just make sure it’s secure, up off your face and neck and won’t whack you in the face when you turn. If you need a million bobby pins or there are some little pieces sticking out, oh well.
Signed, terrible hairstylist.
Anon
I don’t wear underwear with my leggings or leotards – no need! It is better to be commando. If you do wear a leotard, most people wear dance shorts over them.
Ballet tights are thick and the convertible kind have holes so you can make them into capris if you don’t want your feet covered. I would not wear them with leggings, but would wear them with dance shorts. I really don’t think you need them unless you want them though, leggings are perfectly fine attire.
Swimming workouts
I am soon going to have daily access to a lap pool – yay! I’ve always loved swimming, but never had access enough to make it my regular cardio workout. Any recs for where to look for good swimming workout routines? (something with more variation than “swim 10 laps”)
Gail the Goldfish
Nothing specific, but start slow. If you aren’t used to swimming regularly, laps are surprisingly brutal. I usually alternate between breaststroke and freestyle every 10 laps, but that’s not based on any actual workout routine, just my random preference (breaststroke is what I am best at, so I consider it my warm up and what I do when I need a break, basically)
Anon
There’s an app called MySwimPro that I (a former competitive swimmer) use for workouts. It used to be free but I think now you need a subscription, although I’m pretty sure they have a trial period you could use to download a whole bunch of workouts and save them elsewhere.
Anon.
Consider getting pull buoy and/or kickboard. You can do a lot of different things with gear – train only your legs, arms, etc. I get bored easily and switched exercises every 5 min or so in a 60 min workout.
Get into it slowly – when I started swimming again, I could barely do 15 laps. Also, maybe hire an instructor for a few sessions to assess your form and teach you some fun exercises.
Anonymous
Check out the Swimmers World magazine website. I just searched swimmers world workouts, and I found a cool searchable database of workouts for different fitness levels and workout duration. If you’ve ever done any interval training on a treadmill or spin bike, the concepts are very similar.
If you’re looking to improve your stroke or try out new training drills, you can also search for videos on YouTube.
editrix
You can find free workouts on the US Masters website usms.org, and more at https://www.100swimmingworkouts.com/
I second the recommendation for a My SwimPro trial to get started. When I used it a sub was $100 for a year and it really helped me to train for two distance events. But if you don’t want to pay, you can get a feel for the basic structure (Warm Up, Drills, Distance, Cool Down) from looking at a few sample workouts.
Horse Crazy
There are a ton on Pinterest! Just search “swimming workouts”.
joan wilder
I’ve decided that I want to look at my phone less, and one way I will do that is by buying a watch so I am not using it to tell time. Does anyone have store/brand/model recommendations for a watch that looks good on small wrists/hands in the sub $200 range?
Anonymous
I wear a small Fossil tank watch from 2006 or 2007 with a metal bracelet band. If they have something like it now, it’s a workhouse and probably in that price range.
Anonymous
Prior Fossil commenter – I own one pretty close to this. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fossil-F2-Womans-Watch-ES9381-Silver-Dial-All-Stainless-Steel-30m-Working/333262458071?hash=item4d97fd8cd7:g:e3oAAOSwyWddJTYS:sc:USPSFirstClass!22046!US!-1
Anon2
Skagen. I have very petite wrists and its the only one that looks right.
PolyD
I just bought a Skagen watch with birds on the face. I love it!
Ducky
You should look at the mini slim runway watch from Michael Kors.
BabyAssociate
Skagen!
Anonanonanon
I have a Fossil Q watch and love it. It’s a hybrid smartwatch. It has a regular non-digital face and does NOT look like a smartwatch, which was important to me, but I can assign my phone contacts a number. If my husband calls, for example, both hands move to the 1. I assigned my mom, my boss, and my kid’s schools numbers. Anyone else, I ignore. It helps reassure me that I’m not missing anything important by not looking at my phone. You can also change out the bands which I love.
cbg
+1 to the Fossil Q. When I’m not wearing it I’m constantly looking at my phone to check missed notifications. I also like the step tracker option. I think it was around $150?
Anon.
Seconding Skagen and Fossil.
Irish Midori
I loved my pebble. Fitbit bought the brand and recycled it as their Versa watch, which is still under $200. Haven’t tried it, but it looks good. If you’re wanting something less “sportsy”- looking, check out the Garmin vivomove HR hybrid watch. Also under $200, looks like a pretty, non-smart watch, but still has notifications and most of the functionality.
I had the same goal in moving to a smart watch as you–looking at my phone less–and I have to say, I think it has worked well. I was surprised at how much I love it.
Vicky Austin
Another vote for Skagen! I love mine.
anon
My two favorites are Daniel Wellington and Seiko.
Pants Probs
I need to buy 2-3 pairs of reasonably attractive pants to wear in a business casual setting. Unfortunately, it seems that the High Gods of Fashion have determined that people with my general build should only be wearing extremely mumsy styles. I’m a cusp-sized hour glass with a petite inseam. Does anyone have any recommendations for pants under $75 that will suit?
Anon
I’m not familiar with petite inseams, but I’ll vouch for two pairs of pants that are comfortable and non-frumpy for a business casual setting. The first is the J. Crew HIgh-rise Cameron pant in four season stretch. The second is the Gap Skinny Ankle pant.
Anonymous
Try LOFT, Ann Taylor and Gap. NYDJ ponte pants are good, but stretch like crazy so you want to size down.
Anonymous
It seems like the go-to for a lot of folks is the BR Sloan. They have a curvy fit now, too.
Ms B
Talbots Essex curvy fit in petite. Many sizes currently on sale for $70 and under.
Anon
Yesterday’s SAHM conversation was fascinating.
I have several friends who are generally happy as SAHMs, but they are the type who always wanted big families and never had much taste for having a career. (No judgement – I’m happy for them that they are doing what works well for them and their families.)
But it’s just weird to me to see women who do it because…. they never liked working? and then end up hating being a SAHM. (If you’re writing on social media about how you drink at 4 pm and are angry with your entire family, you’re probably not in a good place.) Or they do the #girlboss thing of MLM and writing a blog that they update once a month.
Not sure where I’m going with this – it’s just really sad to me that in 2019, this is where we are.
anon
I have to say, I don’t know anyone like who you described in your third paragraph. I have lots of thoughts on the SAHM thing, but more about how I’ve seen that arrangement greatly affect equality in many of those marriages. Not all, for sure, but many. Even when both parties agreed that’s what they wanted, and the woman wasn’t particularly career-minded.
Monday
The thing is, unless your kids have serious disabilities or chronic illness, they’re out of the home when mom still has decades left of life before typical retirement age. I’ve seen the dynamics in these marriages and I don’t know how it was when the kids were young, but I definitely don’t like what I see now.
Anon
Women here love to act like it’s impossible to go back to back to work after taking a break to raise kids, but almost all the SAHMs I know started working again full-time by the time their youngest was in school and certainly by the time their youngest was in college. Or they didn’t work because the family didn’t need any more income, but threw themselves into hobbies and volunteer work, which may be relatively high-level work, like being on boards. It’s not really like being retired where you’re 75 and you sit around the house all day because you don’t have a ton of energy.
Anonymous
I agree about the equality in a lot of situations (not all – I know one couple who are great at this, but they’re empty nesters now). Anyway, the women I know who are SAHMs are all folks who are cool with this equality (or really lack of equality) vibe. They’re mostly very old-school traditional and always imagined this sort of stereotype as their reality. It is definitely not for me at all. But, honestly, I’m not sure the inequality bothers a lot of women whose goal is to be a SAHM.
Anon
I agree about the MLMs. It’s not a job and it preys on other people. But otherwise, I dunno, most SAHMs I know seem pretty happy. Do they vent about their kids occasionally? Sure, but I think most working moms do too.
I live in an area where very few women work traditional 9-5 office jobs, but there are a lot of women who are mostly SAHM but do something on the side (writing, photography, real estate, substitute teaching). I think the income varies a lot from contributing significantly to the family’s financial stability all the way down to bringing in essentially nothing, but either way it gives them something to do that isn’t focused on their kids and probably does a lot to increase their happiness. I don’t think I know anyone who is “just” a SAHM. I think that’s actually quite stigmatized in 2019 and women who adore kids and want to have big families and primarily be moms feel like they have to get a side gig so as not to be a useless parasite (as someone said yesterday). I kind of feel sad about that, because I think staying home and raising children is totally worthwhile and it can be a full-time endeavor when you have children that aren’t yet in school.
Anon
I also know plenty of SAHMs who do things like triathlons, art, community involvement (as in, they write legislation or serve on high-level boards) – whether or not there’s an expectation of it paying, they do it for their own enrichment. I also know women who do things like work at Nordstrom on nights and weekends, just to get some fun money that they can spend however they want.
But I do see the whole “MLM #girlboss”or “Founder and CEO, NoNameBlog” a lot too, and it’s… just really weird to me.
Anonymous
I know a lot of women who are SAHMs b/c one spouse has a crazy job (travel, hospital with overnight shifts, pilot) where sourcing childcare to work FT made no sense (and one parent could never take off if there was a sick kid or childcare fell through).
A lot of them run PTAs (where they raise and run a 6-figure budget every year) or other things of significance in the community. So they maybe spend 10-20 hours on various non-paying tasks, so I will give them no side-eye when they may also play tennis when I am at work. Some sell real estate, so in 10 years, may just be a listing agent (IMO sellers agents are the ones who risk not getting paid while doing a lot of work).
I can only think of a few moms who literally do nothing all day. All I can say is that I’m in BigLaw and I totally get why some couples decide to divide their lives this way — just please don’t treat me like I’m crazy b/c I do things another way. Some day I may quit or do something else, but today isn’t it.
Anonymous
Do you mean buyers agents? Usually when people decide to sell a house, at least in my market, it gets sold and agent gets paid. Buyers oftenchange their mind
Anon
Granted I live in a wealthier neighborhood, but the SAHMs are the happiest people I know. And that data bears out in some studies on the matter. Meanwhile working mothers have the biggest declines in happiness over the last few decades. I’m proudly a working mom, but it’s a grind.
Anon
+1. I have good reasons for working but I absolutely think I would be happier as a (privileged, upper middle class) SAHM. Living on my husband’s salary wouldn’t require any financial sacrifices and I would be so much less stressed not trying to both work and parent. I imagine less stress would translate to more time for myself and more “gardening,” which would lead to a stronger marriage. I think a lot of working moms who put down SAHMs are jealous.
anon
So the norm in my wealthy neighborhood is that SAHMs have extensive domestic help (typically both a nanny/au pair/mother’s helper, depending on whether kids are in school or not, plus someone who cleans) and heavily schedule their kids in activities at the country club (swim team, tennis lessons, golf lessons, etc.), so they have a lot of free time. Some of that they spend volunteering, but candidly, a lot of it is personal enrichment – writing the novel that never gets published, doing triathlons, tennis, etc. It’s a nice life.
Generally, they’re super happy until the divorce. Then they claim it was a horrible grind of endless childcare and personal sacrifice and that they really wanted to keep working but gave it all up for the DH’s career and the kids. I’ve seen this cycle play out 3 times in the last 18 months alone.
Irish Midori
Lol (in a jaded kind of way) at your last paragraph. There’s some stinging truth in that.
Anon
Ditto Irish Midori.
Also seen that.
anon
i have a friend who is a divorce attorney and has told us horror stories about the women who come in in their 50s (similar to your last paragraph). I don’t really have the option of being an SAHM, but even if I did, her stories have sufficiently scared me to keep working.
Ellen
Yes, that is why SAHMs have to be like my sister Rosa. She is living the life now, but is planning for the future just in case Ed turns her in for a younger model. Her planning consists of really staying in shape, networking with other women (and SAHD’s) to keep her finger on the pulse of what’s going on. She also has her own investment account managed by Dad, that she can use for herself or her kids if Ed leaves her. Also, she has a 529 plan in place for each kid so that their education’s are paid for, so she really won’t have to work if Ed leaves her. She will probably have to move to another place, though that depends on if the breakup occurs after the kids are in college. Either way, we don’t see her getting any kind of conventional job. Her last such job was as a CIT at a summer camp, just before Ed first saw her. I on the other hand will likely have to work forever, b/c my status depends on being a rainmaker, even tho Dad has an investment account for me also, and I have 401k, and retirement plan benefits at work, and equity in the firm now. Besides, I enjoy my work, and unless I become a SAHM, will work until I am in my mid-60’s, 25 years or so from now. Who knew that 2 sisters, who were both so pretty 15-20 years ago, have taken so different directions? Any way, thank God for Dad, who knows men’s $exueal proclivities, and prepared us for that by setting us up financieally! YAY!!
Anon
Being a privileged, wealthy SAHM with enough money to do whatever I wanted and still have a housekeeper when also having a husband who loves and respects me is my dream job. It’s not happening for me, but I totally understand why people in that situation decide to stay home.
Anon
Seriously. What more could you wish for?
Anon
I think that’s part of the problem though is that (some) husbands stop respecting their wives when engaged in this lifestyle.
anon
+1. One SAHM friend I have is struggling with this now; even though her husband makes $$$, she says he’s been making comments that suggest he would like to her to take more financial responsibility within the relationship. Perhaps not outright disrespect, but it makes her understandably uncomfortable.
Anon
This is Anon at 1:30. Oh, I totally know that lots of men lose respect for their stay at home wives, which is one of the many, many reasons I will not be doing it. But, in my perfect world, where that concern and the many, many other reasons didn’t exist, I would totally be signing up to be a SAHM.
Anonymous
I hate my job and would totally be a SAHM if I could, even though I never thought that was what I wanted. I would be like my SAHM friend who basically made a job for herself by running two Girl Scout troops and being volunteer of the year at the school. I would get all the housework done during the day and have weekends and evenings to spend with my family. And I would be able to get a dog.
Bay Area living
Just moved to the Bay Area and for the time in my professional life, I’m running into a lot of SAHMs. They are all incredibly well educated (Ivy grad degrees) and very wealthy. They seem happy enough. It’s not for me but what I find most crazy is — how are all of these families affording to live in the Bay Area on a single income???
Anon
Tech founders’ wives. I used to live in Palo Alto and take a daytime barre class and omg the net worth of that 10 person class has to have been north of $1B.
Bay Area living
That’s definitely true with many SAHMs in this area but not these particular women. One is married to a doctor who works at Kaiser, the other is married to someone at Facebook who just started there a couple of years ago. Maybe family money? Maybe lots of debt? I dunno. One of them just bought a house for 3.5M. My mind is blown.
anon
I’ve seen this too. I know two classmates from law school who are both professors (so a well paying job, but not anything like biglaw money) and bought a $4M house. it’s obviously none of my business but I can’t imagine that two law school professor salaries can get you a $4M pad.
Anon
Yeah that’s weird. Doctors don’t make *that* much and the Bay Area is crazy expensive. Probably family money.
anon
this is crazy to me since I have an HYS law degree and know zero SAHMs from my law school class. What do all of the spouses do? do they all have husbands in tech like Anon’s post suggests?
Anonymous
I am in BigLaw and by my 10th year law school reunion we had a # of SAHMs in my law school class. I even know a doctor who is a SAHM (disabled child though). It is truly a thing. I didn’t go to HYS and live in a MCOL area of the country, so you really can afford to live on one salary here. And, sadly, I am old enough that a lot of people have had parents die, so they inherit enough $ to pay off their mortgage and then one spouse retires.
I would not have gotten a law degree (or medical degree — oof) if I knew I’d just use it for <10 years. Not that I'd dissuade women from going, but it is sad that people pay it off and stop using it.
780
I’m 9 years out of law school at a top 5 school, and know zero SAHMs from either my law school or my time in biglaw. I’m sure they exist, and I suspect that they might be more common in MCOL places, but I’m shocked by the person who said it was 25% of her class. I know a lot of people who took a lean out job after 4-5 years in biglaw, but they all still work.
anon
I’m the anon at 1:33 and i’m 10+ years out – a good number of women have high level positions at DOJ and/or are in academia, but many others are senior counsel or partners at biglaw firms (frequently with DHs who are also biglaw partners). Maybe more women will drop out of the workforce as time goes on, but given that most of my classmates’ kids are already all school age, that seems unlikely.
Anon
I’m the person who said that and I was talking about my undergrad class. I’m not a lawyer.
Anon
I missed yesterday’s convo, but in my experience, SAHMs whose lives revolve around their kids are less happy. SAHMs who fill the day with exercise, social activities, volunteering, and personal hobbies seem very happy. Then it’s basically like a pre-retirement life instead of a constant-childcare life. Obviously take this with a grain of salt since the plural of anecdote is not anecdata, but it’s what I’ve observed.
Clementine
You know, I’ve really gone through a lot of feelings on this. I enjoy parenting so much, I actually think I would love being a SAHM; however, I’m not because of some of the issues related to financial security/independence, being my own person, power balance in the relationship… you know, all that stuff.
I really do think that it just comes down to the fact that some people are miserable humans, some people will always be eyeroll inducing, and some people are great. I think some of the aspects of SAHM culture make it more visible, but when it comes down to it: I’ve worked with people who hate any job they have, known people who were MLM-fanatics, and then some great humans.
Temp SAHM
I missed yesterday’s conversation. I’ll have to go back and take a look. In a week I’m leaving my job as a midlevel associate in biglaw to become a temporary stay at home mom to my baby. I plan to get a new job within a year, so maybe I don’t qualify as a SAHM in your eyes, but I will be jobless and taking care of my child full time for at least several months and possibly up to a year+ as I look for a new position. Personally, I did not feel able to give my biglaw job and being a mom both the attention I wanted and needed to to be able to thrive in both. I also didn’t feel able to do both AND job search. So, I am taking time off to reflect and explore. I also love spending time with my daughter and helping her discover the world and develop. Anyway, I was 100% certain I would never, ever want to be a SAHM before I had my daughter, and now I find myself wishing that I could do it for a few years. All this to say, I don’t think I fit in your buckets and I exist. I know more people like myself (career-oriented, successful women who took extended time to be a SAHM when their children were very young) than I expected before I had a baby.
Irish Midori
Good for you! Love how you are taking charge of your life. There’s a lot of pressure (I feel) to not do that, and “prove” something (I don’t know what), and I love that you dgaf and are doing what’s best for you.
Boston Legal Eagle
I think there are many different versions of SAHParenting and some people are able to have more time for leisure and some are working (full time childcare is a lot of work!), just not for pay. I would also love a life where I could focus on exercise, personal interests and spending time with kids on my own schedule, while still also having lots of childcare in place. I mean, isn’t this everyone’s dream? My husband and I are working toward financial independence and hopefully we’ll both end up in this place. But the reality is we still need money right now and there are a lot of risks with being dependent on one person’s job/income. And I am risk averse.
anon
for better or for worse, many wonderful things in our society could not exist without SAHM. i know SAHM who dedicate more hours to running non profit organizations than my mom did on her full time job. i also know some SAHMs who really were never that career oriented and always intended/hoped to become SAHM – i guess they fall into that category of people who did not like working, and some of them have moms who were SAHMs, and once the kids were older became more involved in volunteering in the community or are very involved in caring for their grandchildren or elder parents. i have two ivy league degrees, currently work, and have non-school aged twins and could tell you that i would absolutely hate being a SAHM mom right now, but given the demands of DH’s job (lots of travel) and the fact that we have no local family, i could potentially see myself becoming a SAHM in a number of years, but i would only want to be a SAHM if we could still afford certain luxuries like having having our home cleaned, etc. i actually enjoy and am good at a lot of the mental labor that goes into running a household and DH is terrible at it and hates it.
as a society i think we’d all be a lot happier if we’d stop judging other people for their choices.
anon
Going off-registry for wedding shower gifts. I absolutely hate doing this, but apparently DH’s cousin has reallll expensive tastes. (Sorry, girl, I’m not buying a $120 coffee pot when I wouldn’t even spend that on myself.) I will fully admit that said cousin comes from a more posh social circle than I do, so the expectations are quite different. Any ideas for a universally popular gift for $50 or under, especially for a couple who is already well-established? For the wedding, we’ll be contributing to the honeymoon fund.
Anon
My first suggestion would be to try to go in with another cousin/aunt/friend. If that’s not an option does she drink? Nice bottle of wine to celebrate their first anniversary or something?
Anonymous
Anything at all from the store she has registered with a gift receipt.
Anonymous
Cash. Or a gift card to wherever her registry is.
(also, FWIW, I have some items on my registry either 1) as a group gift that people go in together on or 2) for the completion discount, which is 20% off — not things I expect people to buy for me!)
Anonymous
Wait, sorry, we do wedding shower gifts and wedding gifts now? Did I miss something? This is getting so out of control.
Anon
Huh? Wedding showers have been around forever. My mom (and I think grandmothers) had them. G00gle says they started in the 1800s.
bellatrix
It used to be that shower gifts were very small (like a few kitchen towels) and you gave a separate, larger gift for the actual wedding. So says my mom, anyway.
Anon
It’s still that way in my circles – $25-50 is the norm for shower gifts, $100-200 for the wedding, depending on how well you know the couple and how fancy the wedding is.
Abby
This depends on the couple but my favorite off registry gifts were board games (Ticket to Ride – we got regular and Asia, became one of our most played games) and lawn games (if they live in a city and have no yard, this isn’t great but we own Kubb, giant jenga, cornhole, ladder ball), We also received a decanter & matching glasses that were engraved with our wedding date and “Wedding is Coming” (Game of Thrones) which are awesome.
We have gifted good friends a couple massage to use before the wedding, but that will cost over $50. A nice address stamp could be useful, especially with wedding mail. Couple that with a nice letter opener?
Anon
I would just give the cash amount you’re comfortable with.
Anon
I would not do that for a shower, if it’s a traditional “sit in a circle and open gifts” shower.
Anon
I would not do that for a shower, if it’s a traditional “sit in a circle and open gifts” shower.
PolyD
I would not do that for a shower, if it’s a traditional “sit in a circle and open gifts” shower.
Anonymous
A $50 gift card to the store they are registered at. I received plenty of gift cards at my shower and was thrilled to use them to clear some of the items that didn’t get purchased.
Anon
I would give more for the shower and less for the wedding gift. So, for example, if you were planning to spend $50 on the shower and $200 on the wedding gift, I would find something in the $100 to $150 range on the registry for the shower and give $50 in cash for the wedding. It doesn’t matter if it is something that you would spend that much on, just decide on an amount and pick something at that amount.
But that is because I absolutely hate when people go off the registry, and I hate getting gifts I don’t want. I don’t want a ton of junk in my house that I don’t want. I would much rather you save your money than give me a gift that is not to my taste, and it doesn’t sound like you know her enough to give a gift that is her taste.
anon
Picture frame for their wedding photo from a big box store with a gift receipt (ideally from the store where they registered). Or any generic gift (serving plate/bowl/cake set etc.) with a gift receipt from where they registered.
Anon
This.
anon
+100. i HATED getting non returnable gifts for my wedding and when i had a new baby.
Anonymous
you HATED getting gifts??
Anon
A really nice bottle of champagne.
anon
this!
Never too many shoes...
OP, if you don’t want to spend more than $50, then don’t.
But your initial comment reeks of judgment about what the couple have registered for, which is not a great colour on anyone. Maybe you would not spend $120 for a coffee pot for yourself, you do you, but I don’t think the woman who chose it deserves your vitriol.
Anon
Nah it’s super rude to not have anything under $120 on your registry. It’s not about the cousin wanting a nice coffee pot, it’s about the fact that she’s telling her guests the minimum spend to attend her shower is $120. That’s incredibly rude. Every etiq*tte guide out there says you need a range of registry items at various price points.
Anon
Sure, that’s rude. But just because OP wouldn’t buy herself a $120 coffee pot doesn’t mean other people shouldn’t. And really, your baseline for buying gifts is what you would buy for yourself? I’m way more generous when it comes to giving gifts to the people I love than I am when it comes to buying myself household goods.
Anon
No but she doesn’t want to spend $120 on a shower gift, which seems entirely reasonable. $50 is the norm for shower gifts in my circles, except for sister/BFF-type people.
Clementine
My sister once sent me the registry of a wedding she was attending.
Many, many items on the registry (so not the ‘hey, we really just want cash’ hint list), the most affordable of which was a $140 sugar dish. My sister and her husband were already spending $$$ to attend a wedding in (very popular tourist destination) during (busiest holiday weekend of the year) and it read very tone deaf when the registry was so out of step with norms.
FWIW, my sister and her husband did what was mentioned above and gifted a smaller cash amount at the wedding and gave something ridiculous and crystal for the shower.
Anon
No, it doesn’t, and you need to calm down.
The point was that the bride-to-be doesn’t have any lower-priced items on her registry, which is rude. By not having lower-priced items on the registry, she’s dictating how much people will spend.
anon
OP here. No vitriol at all, but I have a fairly set budget for shower gifts and most of her items are well beyond that. Cut me some slack here; I still want to find a nice gift!
Anon
It doesn’t matter that most of the items are over that price, so long as they are not all over that price. Pick an item off the list that is within your budget, even if you don’t find it exciting
anon
Um, I don’t think you interpreted her comment right. I read it as mild frustration about the social expectation that she shell out what is objectively a lot of money on something that is exceeds her budget. It’s not an uncommon sentiment to be a bit put off by spending a ton of money on furnishing your friends’ homes (which, if they’re in their late 20s or 30s, are already established) when you’re still using your target plates from college. People still do it, of course, but people are allowed to have feelings about it. I hardly think she’s directing vitriol at anyone, but I hope you feel better having graced us with this needlessly negative comment.
Senior Attorney
Or you could just politely decline the shower invitation. It doesn’t sound like you like the bride much anyway.
anon
*huge eye roll*
I like the bride just fine. But, you know, budgets and all.
Anon
I didn’t read your post as mean to the bride at all, OP. Budgets are a fact of life for most of us. There are a lot of rich ladies here who can afford to give this kind of gift, which is fine, but it’s not nice to be nasty to people who can’t.
Anonymous
Agreed! This conversation is making me crazy. When someone sends you a registry where the lowest priced item is $120, they are mandating that you spend at least $120 on their gift. OP’s budget is $50. This doesn’t mean she doesn’t like the bride. It just means she does like the idea of being forced into a gift at a certain price point, or that times are tough right now, or that she has a major savings goal that she isn’t willing to sacrifice for. The bride is being out of control, not the OP. It is perfectly reasonable to have a gift budget and to not be interested in changing it.
anon
I was thinking this, too. Well, no idea whether you like the bride or not, but she’s your husband’s cousin? Unless you’re super close, I’d send a card and my regrets, saying you look forward to celebrating at the wedding.
Senior Attorney
Haha I guess it was the “sorry, girl” that threw me off.
Carry on.
BeenThatGuy
This. Someone on this board once said “an invitation is not a summons”. I repeat this to everyone I know who complains about an invitation to something.
Anon
I mean, it’s a cute saying, but in many cases you can’t really skip a family wedding without causing major family chaos and a lot of vitriol directed at you. My dad and his sister are estranged because he didn’t attend her daughter’s wedding. So yeah “an invitation is not a summons,” but skipping an immediate family member’s wedding is one of those things that tends to end relationships and cause family estrangement.
It also doesn’t sound to me like she wants to skip the shower, just that she doesn’t want to have spend $120 to attend.
Anon
Also, for all we know, the cousin went to the OP’s shower and bought a nice gift. It’s not a good look to not be there for those who were there for you.
anon
+1, I have always lived that way (though I had never heard the saying before this board) and I’m perfectly happy. I frequently turn down social invitations (as politely as possible) and am far happier for it. I understand that’s not how everyone wants to live, but I can’t imagine constantly saying yes to social events out of a sense of obligation. I just don’t have that kind of energy.
Anonymous
So I don’t come from the same social stratum as most people here, but since when do bridal shower gifts have to be from the registry? I don’t think I’ve ever been to a shower where more than a handful of the gifts were from the registry. Most of them were more personal, and not usually as large as a wedding gift. A lot of times there is a theme for the shower gifts that isn’t compatible with the registry.
Senior Attorney
Yeah, back in my day that’s how it was. Generally a shower was either “kitchen” or “linen” or “lingerie” and gifts were smaller. But lately (past 10-15 years maybe? maybe longer?) registry gifts have been expected at showers.
Cat
What? Married in the 00’s along with many friends. Showers were definitely registry events. Some people spent $25 on spatulas and others $400 on silver but it’s not like a kid’s birthday party — the expectation is registry. I agree with the OP that an extremely limited selection under 3 figures is obnoxious.
Senior Attorney
Maybe it’s regional. Also maybe my time frame is off. What I describe was definitely the norm when I married in the mid-80s in So Cal. Also in the 90s as far as I recall.
Anon
I would let your DH handle this since it’s his family member.
I will say that when we attended my husband’s cousin’s wedding, we only gave $100 cash even though the bride’s family has hundreds of millions of dollars and the wedding was VERY VERY FANCY. I assume the bride was insulted, since we never got a thank you note. But we spent about $2500 attending the wedding and honestly, $100 is a very standard wedding gift in our circles and I don’t believe you should have to pay more to attend a super rich person’s wedding. If anything, I’d be inclined to give more to young people who don’t have family money, since the money would mean a lot more to them. So I think you should do you and give what you’re comfortable giving.
Anon
Or the bride relied on her new husband, who it sounds like DH is related to, to write the thank you notes for his side of the guests, and the bride has no thoughts or feelings about the size of your gift. Why are you putting the blame for not getting a thank you exclusively on the bride, instead of equally on the couple?
Anon
The bride is my husband’s cousin. You’re right that a bride isn’t entirely responsible for thank you notes, but the couples I know that have divided thank you notes have done so based on who knows each guest better. I wouldn’t expect the groom to be writing us a note since we’ve never met him except at the wedding and spoke to him for about 10 seconds at the wedding.
Abby
Is there any good way to develop disposable cameras anymore? We had a disposable camera on each of our tables for our wedding, and over a year later I still haven’t developed them. I think it’s $14 a camera at CVS, and was wondering if there was a better or cheaper option? We have ~20 of them, and ideally I’d like to see the photos first, and then pick which ones to print, instead of getting them all printed out because I’m sure many of them are blurry and dark.
Anonymous
Nah the $14 cvs thing is how you do this
Anon
I think you have to pay more these days because it’s outdated technology.
Lilac
Costco!
Anon
There’s no real way to see what the photos look like before printing; this limitation is why digital caught on so fast (before the advent of Facebook and other social media).
Anon
Nope, that’s not true. You can (I mean, it’s physically possible; not sure about services provided by CVS or Costco) just get the negatives and a CD with scans of the negative. Then you could choose to print photos based on that.
Anon
What I meant is it’s not really a service that’s offered.
Anon
NYC on Labor Day weekend will probably be brutally hot, yes?
Anon
It depends on your definition of brutally hot but I don’t think so (I live in Ohio though so am used to steamy, humid Midwestern summers). I think the average high is 80, although temps these days are usually a few degrees above average. It will be weirdly empty though. It can be a good thing – easier to get tickets to shows and tables at popular restaurants but if this is your first time visiting you won’t really get the “NYC experience” with all the locals gone.
Anonymous
No not really. Where are you coming from? If you’re from New England or the Pacific NW it may feel hot to you but for the rest of the country it’ll feel fine — it may not even be 90 by that point.
Cat
Too early to tell at 2 weeks out. you could be lucky with 80 degree highs or we could get another horrible East Coast heat wave…
anon
Can anybody provide information/general thoughts about Lake Forest, IL? My husband is moving forward in the interview process for a job that would require us to relocate there, and I know very little about that specific area (although I currently live in the Midwest and am fairly familiar with the city of Chicago). We have two dogs and an 18-month old, so any thoughts about things like cost of living, neighborhoods, child care, or anything else would be helpful. Thanks!
LF
Me! I used to work in one of there schools over a decade ago and grew up in the area.
Lake Forest is a part of the North Shore, a stretch of wealthy suburbs along the lake north of the city. Of the North Shore, Lake Forest has the WASP-iest feel to me. Lots of country clubs and preppy types (although not everyone is a part of that scene). It has a charming downtown with nice shops, although not much of a nightlife. To me, it feels very New England wannabe. The reputation of the east side of Lake Forest is that it’s where the older money types tend to live, and the west is where newer money and homes are. If you’re looking for a “typical” suburb with walkable streets, there are some charming older houses around the high school. Schools are very good, although not welcoming to minorities and while the high school isn’t quite the pressure cooker of New Trier, there’s a lot of anxiety among many about getting into the “right” school (and a scandal is about to break about parents handing over legal guardianship to take advantage of college grants and scholarships). Lake Bluff is a smaller town that feeds into the same high school that I’ve heard billed as “Lake Forest’s less snobby little sister” and I think that description fits. It’s still quite moneyed and on the lake, and it has a cute downtown.
Lake Forest (and Lake Bluff) is a pricier suburb, so if you’re willing to detail your housing desires and budget, I might be able to make some more recommendations.
Anonymous
This is spot on
Anonymous
That scandal has already broken.
Bay Area living
Yep, I read an article about it a few weeks ago. Parents giving up legal guardianship of their kids so that the kids can look poor and get financial aid. Sickening.
LF
Sorry, I meant in terms of which families are involved, not the whole thing.
LF
OMG, *their*. Not sure how that happened!
OP
Thank you so much!! This is incredibly helpful. We would be looking for a 4+ bedroom, 3+ bath home, large garage, good yard. Budget is somewhat flexible (we would go from two incomes to one until I could find a job, so we may have to reassess depending on husband’s salary at new job) but probably around $850K.
LF
There are definitely homes that fit your budget and parameters in Lake Forest. I would spend some time there and see how you like it. I would also check out Lake Bluff as well. Highland Park is also on Lake Michigan and is very nice and a bit more welcoming to others IMO. Bannockburn (teeny tiny, but has some lovely properties),
Another factor that surprised me getting involved in the LF community is how many people are from there. Not just the area, but LF itself. There are a lot of families that know each other.
Honestly, you could buy a home in nearly any suburb in Chicago at that price point (although you’d be making some concessions in the North Shore). I would give heavy consideration to what sort of community feel you want. Lake Forest is visually lovely, but it’s definitely not for everyone.
Anonymous
Hi I am from around there, though not Lake Forest specifically. My general impression is that Lake Forest is VERY nice. The houses are so beautiful. The North Shore area is really a nice place to live and generally considered VHCOL compared to surrounding suburbs, especially Lake Forest. The families there are wealthy, to say the least. The schools in the area have a great reputation but are also known to be hyper competitive which I know can affect some kids negatively (some of my professional work dealt with this issue specifically, specifically re: Lake Forest High School). Side note since you have 2 dogs, there are really awesome dog parks in LF that are basically just forest preserves where you can let your dogs off leash, and I have driven an hour to take my dog there.
Anonymous
Thank you for responding! Yes, I am worried about the wealthy, hyper-competitive atmosphere. We are on the more laid-back side of that spectrum and although we are high earners, I don’t think we really fit in well with that lifestyle. That’s great about the dog parks, though! We love being outdoors.
LF
Take a look at Libertyville, too. Definitely upper middle class, but far more middle of the road people, great schools, and a cute downtown with nice restaurants.
Anonymous
I responded earlier but I wanted to add one more note! Google a photo of the Lake Forest High School. This is the town’s public high school. Enough said, lol (it is beautiful).
Anon
Heads up, the Going Out blazer appears to be 45% off right now!
Aggie
Thank you! I have almost purchased one in navy several times but hesitated in case it went on sale. It also gives me an excuse to expand my Icon Stripe Top collection (on sale for $26!)
Gail the Goldfish
Aw, but not the black and white tweed one I’ve been eyeing. I may have to give in and pay full price for that one (because, you know, the three regular colors I already own just aren’t enough).
Anonymous
That one was included in a promotion a couple of weeks ago. If they aren’t low in stock, it might be worth waiting for another promotion.
Signed,
Owns all three solid colors and the tweed
anon
Do you size up? I am a size 12 and concerned about all of the comments which say this jacket runs small….36DD and athletic build
Cat
I’m a 34C and take a 6. I am usually a 4 in JCrew tops and sometimes a 6 in things that are tighter at the bust.
Anonymous
I found size 2 TTS but maybe a bit small compared with the usual J Crew sizing. I think J Crew tends to run large at the small end and small at the large end of the size range, if that makes sense?
Anon
Dang, not in Canada.
Pretty Mama
We (myself and 2 teenagers) will be in Chicago over Labor Day – they have never been. Any specific suggestions of things to do? I have an architectural boat tour on the list. We just want to see the city and eat good food. Any indication of what the weather will be like?
Anonymous
Suggestions: you could try getting tix to Hamilton if that’s something you’re into. What kind of food are you guys into? There are so many amazing restaurants it’s hard to give recommendations without knowing more! Highly recommend going to the Riverwalk, it’s fun to hang out there for a drink/soda/ice cream. If weather is good you could spend a lot of time in Lincoln Park (the Lincoln Park Zoo, the lagoons, the alfred caldwell lilly pond, farmers market saturday morning, the LP Conservatory), Humboldt Park is also one of my favorite parks and they have swan boat rentals that are a blast. Take the el (the red line) or the water taxi down to Chinatown and explore, my fav restaurant there is Qing Xiang Yuan (the servers will help you order). The Logan Square farmers market on Sunday is considered by many the best in the city, could be a fun way to check out a neat neighborhood. Also recommend checking out the 606 trail, there are lots of restaurants and cafes off the trail. I’m throwing this our on top of the obvious recommendations of Millenium Park, Art Institute, Field Museum, Museum of Science and Industry, Shedd Aquarium, etc.
BB
OMG the dumplings at Qing Xiang Yuan! LOVED them. I think they’re opening a mini branch in the Loop soon, and I plan to go all the time! Dim sum at Dolo was the best I’ve ever had…including in Hong Kong.
Anonymous
Food recommendations:
Portillos for hot dogs
Lou Malnati’s for deep dish pizza (See also, Pequods)
Girl & The Goat for more upscale dining
Eataly for Italian/ this is just a fun place to explore (also you have to make a reservation at a lot of the restaurants inside Eataly)
Bang Bang Pie & Biscuits for… Pie and Biscuits (this is a fun place)
Honey Butter Fried Chicken for fried chicken
Black Dog Gelato
Sushi Taku for all you can eat sushi
Enoteca Roma for Italian with nice patio
I could go on forever haha
Anonymous
Also check out the lakefront trail, there’s a bike path if you want to rent bikes or you can walk the trail. It is truly one of the best parts of summer in Chicago.
Anonymous
ALSO Navy Pier has fireworks every Saturday night, I forget what time, but I believe Saturday of LDW are the last ones for the summer. Buckingham Fountain is also cool.
Quail
One fun strategy might be to pick a cool restaurant in a neighborhood that would be fun to explore for teens (Chinatown, Pilsen, Logan Square, Wicker Park) and make it a destination. Check out the neighborhood for a few hours and eat. There’s so much good food that you could stay in one neighborhood and eat really well the whole trip, but Chicago has so many cool neighborhoods it could be a nice way to intentionally see different places. Echo the 606 recommendation – get some Divvy bikes and ride to Humboldt Park from the eastern entrance.
I have a small child so most of my usual recommendations are probably not going to fly, haha – I’m thinking about what I, a child of the suburbs, would have found cool as a teenager. Which is public transit, stores/restaurants not in parking lots, and music festivals. See if there’s any live music on the lawn at Millennium Park or Ravinia?