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This short-sleeved sweater is the fall equivalent of a white eyelet blouse in the summer. It’s a little bit frilly, but still totally classic looking. I would wear this with a black blazer and one of the many, many gorgeous pairs of brightly colored pants I’m seeing this season, or to add some texture to a more traditional suit. This would also be a great WFH option paired with jeans or ankle pants.
According to the care instructions, this is machine washable, but to save myself some heartache when one of the delicate ruffles or ends up getting snagged, I would probably hand wash this one in the sink or, at a minimum, in a lingerie bag on the delicate cycle.
The sweater is $29, marked down from $59.59, and available in regular sizes XXS–XXL, petite sizes XXS–XXL, and plus sizes 14–26. It also comes in Moroccan Spice (a really pretty burnt orange) and dark olive heather. Ruffle Puff-Sleeve Sweater Tee
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Ellen
Yay! Fruegel Friday’s! I love Fruegal Friday’s and this short sleeve sweater top! Great Pick, Elizabeth. At $29, it is 1/2 price, and SO much better then getting my sleeves dirty when I put them on the table. I will buy one and show Rosa who always has dirty elbows from the kids.
Did anyone see the Town Hall last nite with Savannah? Myrna and I agree she was very assertive with the President and was able to control him more then the others have in the past! Savannah also was able to get him to answer questions that even Biden could not. I think she would make a great President, if only she had some goverment experience she would be a great candidate.
We are heading out soon for the weekend on Long Island with Mom and Dad. I will try and check in later after I get Dad’s opinion on the Town Halls they had last nite b/c he listened in to ABC’s with Biden. This way, we can compare notes before commenting! YAY!!!
Down coat washing
I have an Eddie Bauer coat with down insulation, the rest of the coat is a blend of nylon, polyester, cotton according to the label. I want to wash, just worried about putting the coat in the dryer– I dont have a dryer and go to a laundromat. Should I risk washing it and drying it there? Worried it could be damaged because some of those dryers are too hot. For my other clothes I sometimes put them in the washer and dry on a drying rack. For this coat drying cleaning is not an option. The label also says to “dry with a clean tennis ball” what does that do?
Anon
The tennis ball breaks up the clumps of down so that it dries fluffy instead of lumpy.
Anon
The tennis ball helps to fluff the down. I would be concerned only because of the dryer temperature. I wash and dry down coats at home as needed.
Ribena
Does it actually need to be washed? I don’t think most of my coats have ever been washed. (Is that disgusting? I hope not).
Anon
Yes I’ve never washed my parka or my wool coats. … or most of my other coats. Mostly just wash fleeces on rare occasion
Anonymous
If it says it is washable, trust that. Ducks run around doing all kinds of things wearing feathers. I always wash my down and dry it on high, and I’m using a commercial style machine in an apartment building. Even at the laundromat you can usually select lower heat (permanent press or delicate) if you want to. Just do it! If you don’t have clean tennis balls, something else fairly heavy will probably work, like jeans. But I keep a set of tennis balls just for this purpose.
For those whose coats don’t get dirty – how do you manage that? My down coats in particular get sort of gross around the collar and cuffs from touching my face or subway stair railings, etc.
Anonymous
I use wool dryer balls with all my laundry, including coats.
Anon
That’s pretty gross. They get dirty (especially winter coats because of salt etc) and they can start to smell. I dry clean my parka after every winter.
Anon
I think it really depends. If you commute by car and work in an office, your coats really don’t necessarily get that dirty.
Anonymous
Doesn’t think work only somewhere with no snow or if you have indoor parking in both areas? Otherwise you’re cleaning snow off the car which is pretty hard to do without getting some road salt etc on your coat from the salt spray on your car.
anon
IDK. That describes my lifestyle and my coats definitely need a washing 1-2 times during the season.
Vicky Austin
+1 to anon9:57, I commute by car and work in an office, but I also live in a really windy area on a dirt road. My coat needs washed at least once a winter.
anne-on
My parents and inalws (dad/FIL in particular) rarely wash their coats. They smell. Badly. I think older people don’t smell themselves in the same way? I wash their coats almost every time they visit us – if i can smell your coat when I walk into the mudroom it is going in the wash.
Anonymous
We young’uns don’t smell ourselves either… Think of all the dry shampoo people…
anne-on
Oh man, you’re right, nothing worse than being behind someone who is on day 4 of not washing their hair in the elevator….
Anon
How do you wash your wool coats? Dry clean?
Anonymous
Per the label. Most if not all of my wool coats say dry clean only.
MagicUnicorn
I wash mine by smushing them in the bathtub, spin out in my top loading washer (or just squeeze as best I can), then lay flat to dry. Stream the wrinkles out once the fabric is dry.
Anonymous
I dry clean the wool ones. If it’s a down with a poly shell (North Face, Columbia) it goes in the washer. I wash those at least once a season. And for those I wear walking the dog or hiking, it’s way more frequent. Heck, I’ll sometimes wash if I’ve been to a Mexican restaurant and it smells like food or if it has been around smoke. Just throw the down jacket in the washing machine on cold and then dry on low heat with tennis balls. Haven’t had anything shrink yet.
I can’t believe others aren’t washing. That’s just gross.
Anonymous
I wash mine at the end of every season and store clean. I know some people store and wash before the start of the season. Coats come with cleaning instructions, they are meant to be cleaned regularly.
LaurenB
I have a wardrobe of coats, but yeah, generally speaking I’ll get them all drycleaned in the spring when I don’t need them anymore so they are clean in the fall when I start to need them again. It seems no different from once-a-year drycleaning of a bedspread or some such – just part of general maintenance. Having said that, if something is really worn infrequently it’s possible I could go without cleaning it in a given season.
Anonie
Haha I HAVE to wash my coats every so often. I guess it’s different if you have a ton of coats and rotate them regularly.
anne-on
Yea, I generally wash our down coats at least once a season (more for my son’s as kids are gross). The cuffs and hems generally get pretty grody by the end of the winter (slush, salt stains up the back, wet dog nose, etc.). I dry them about 75-80% of the way dry with wool dryer balls and the dryer temp set at extra-low.
I also usually take my wool coats into the dry-cleaner at the end of the season too before I store them, any stains have a better chance of coming out that way.
anon
Yeah, that’s pretty gross. Please wash your winter coats; I promise they aren’t as clean and fresh as you think they are!
Ribena
Noted! I will get my winter coats cleaned at the end of this season!! I have occasionally had them cleaned when there have been spillages or whatever but it’s not something I do routinely.
anon
I would get them cleaned NOW if you haven’t been doing it already. Then again at the end of the season.
Anonymous
+1
Anon
Ribena – I’m with you. I’ve never washed my coats!
Katherine Vigneras
I would have it professionally cleaned. Laundromat dryers run hot!
Anonymous
Is a “duvet insert” made with quilted down pockets different than a “down comforter”?
Anonymous
A duvet insert is a subcategory of comforter. Some comforters are made with outer fabric that doesn’t require a duvet cover. A duvet insert requires a cover.
No Problem
Usually a duvet insert will have the little loops on the corners so you can tie your duvet cover to it. A down comforter can be just a comforter, or it can be used as a duvet insert if it has the little loops.
Anonymous
If it says it is washable, trust that. Ducks run around doing all kinds of things wearing feathers. I always wash my down and dry it on high, and I’m using a commercial style machine in an apartment building. Even at the laundromat you can usually select lower heat (permanent press or delicate) if you want to. Just do it! If you don’t have clean tennis balls, something else fairly heavy will probably work, like jeans. But I keep a set of tennis balls just for this purpose.
For those whose coats don’t get dirty – how do you manage that? My down coats in particular get sort of gross around the collar and cuffs from touching my face or subway stair railings, etc.
Anonymous
I can smell the people who think their coats magically stay clean.
Alice walks
FYI – the tennis ball thing.
I used to use tennis balls…. until I broke my parent’s dryer. Many dryers have an internal sensor/electronic thing-y inside the dryer cavity. And you hit that with a tennis ball. Broken dryer!
LaurenB
Yes, I would not use a tennis ball in my fancy new dryer, any more than I would tumble-dry sneakers in it.
anne-on
+1 – wool dryer balls serve the exact same purpose and are designed to be used in this way.
Anon
The wool balls are great. We’ve forsaken dryer sheets (they really are kind of gross) because putting 3 or so wool balls in with the dryer load does the same thing, but better.
Velma
Down coats need to be washed–dry-cleaning won’t do the trick. Remove any trim that can be detached. Wash inside out on medium with mild soap. Apply some stain stick to the cuffs and neck if it’s really dirty.
Tumble on medium–not hot–to avoid damage to the nylon shell. The tennis ball is not really necessary if you tumble something else (like some jeans or a towel) with the coat. You want something to knock the clumps of down apart as they dry so that they get fluffy.
I do this once a season, unless the coat gets very dirty. I do my daughter’s more frequently. I always store our coats clean. I dry-clean wool coats only.
anne-on
Patagonia (and others) specifically sell down wash and “Tek-wash” which is supposed to protect the feathers and (for tek-wash) protect the gore-tex lining. I leave the washing of technical ski stuff to my husband, but for down clothes I have always used a spare amount of woolite (seriously like, 1-2 Tbsp) along with washing soda (which helps increase the effectiveness of the soap) and vinegar (as a natural deodorant and fabric softener). Works great.
anon
I have $300 of credit to use at MM Lafleur in the next few weeks. What should I spend it on? I have a number of items from them, and I don’t have any particular needs. I love the cashmere sweatsuit they have that’s new, but I don’t love that it’s dry clean only lounge clothes.
Any suggestions?
Anonymous
I like their scarves and belts, if you want to refresh your accessories.
Anonymous
The long think sweaters. Like a bathrobe but for the office.
Anon
You can wash cashmere by hand or in the washer on a delicate cycle that you stop before the spin cycle starts (you then have to wring out the item by hand), with a specific cashmere/wool wash. It’s actually healthier for the fabric to wash this way vs. dry cleaning, as dry cleaning dries out the fibers and causes more damage over time. Wool/cashmere wash usually contains lanolin or other oils that recondition the fibers. I say this because the idea of a cashmere sweatsuit sounds amazing and now I want one; if that’s what you want to spend your credit on, go for it!
Washing cashmere: https://www.thelaundress.com/clean-talk-blog/kellyinthecity-asks-the-laundress-how-do-i-clean-cashmere-at-home.html
Anonymous
+1 to this. Get the sweatsuit if that is what appeals! It sounds amazing, but never more than now.
Anonymous
I probably get the most use out of my jardigans. I’m not back at the office yet, so none of the pretty dresses get seen anymore. When I was face to face, I wore my Etsukos weekly and had in a ton of colors. Just such a flexible dress. Fit is hard for me to get right with skirts yet alone pants–very inconsistent.
Katie
I get a ton of wear out of my Etsukos, so I’d consider that and a Morandi sweater.
Katie
OR – I forgot – they have a sweater called the Daphne that’s basically a cashmere Morandi. I snagged one at a sample sale and it’s heavenly. If you’re gravitating towards cashmere, this would be a great pick.
Betsy
OR – I forgot – they have a sweater called the Daphne that’s basically a cashmere Morandi. I snagged one at a sample sale and it’s heavenly. If you’re gravitating towards cashmere, this would be a great pick.
Getting rid of things
I have a couple of work dresses and maybe some pants that may be COVID-15 casualties. Would it make sense to list on Postmark for $25 for each item just to help fund their replacements? Items were ~$125 each new. Or just donate (my GW is great, but I’m thinking it’s shoppers aren’t really buying work items now and the PM shoppers might be more into that).
Anonymous
If you don’t want to bother with Poshmark (I wouldn’t unless the items were in high demand and new with tags), I’d donate to Dress for Success.
Anonymous
Our dress for success really needs larger sizes. Nothing in the single digits.
Anonymous
Post on poshmark. I’ve been selling stuff this whole time, including workwear if the price is right.
Cat
PSA – if you have been eyeing anything at JCrew, check out the sale section. Lucky sizes, but with extra 60% off, then extra 20% off, and then the Cardlove additional 20% off stack at checkout… I just got a dress and 3 tshirts for a grand total of $21.
Anon
Wow, thanks!
Abby
I bought DH 4 shirts this morning for around $25! Going out blazer is also on sale around $83
Senior Attorney
Yeah I got a delivery yesterday of, like, 8 sweaters for practically nothing!
Anon
How many gb’s of storage do you have on your phone and do you find it sufficient? Looking at getting a 2nd Gen SE and the 64gb is on sale which is tempting but I’m not sure if it’s too small.
Likewise, with the announcement of the iPhone 12, when do you think the prices will drop on older models?
Anon
I have 128 but am only using 64. I have a fair amount of music and take a lot of photos and videos of my kid – if you aren’t taking so many photos you can probably get away with 64.
Anon
I have 64 and it’s plenty. I guess it depends on what you use your phone for.
Ribena
I always buy the most storage I possibly can because it makes the phone last longer. My old SE had 64GB and I had to be really careful about accumulating podcasts and pictures. I have the 256GB version of the new SE and don’t foresee running into a problem. Less than four months into using it and I have nearly 60GB of space filled already – the new OS alone takes up nearly 10GB.
Senior Attorney
Same here. I ran out of space on my first smartphone and never want that to happen again.
Anon
I’m going strong with a 5 year old iphone SE with 16 gb. Occasionally I have to delete attachments sent via text (not the texts themselves) but unless you’re the type of person to store years of podcasts and audio books and photos on your phone, I would think 64 would be plenty.
Ellen
I’ve learned to get more GBs then I need after my original iPhone always ran out of space — it was 16gb. I now have 128 gb on my nearly new iPhone 11, and will up grade when 5G is more prevalent, which will hopefully be in 2 years. I love Apple, and think I will stay with 128 gb, but who knows? In 2 years, I may want to stream more and keep more on the phone. Photos I push off on remote CLOUD storage–I still have pictures of my ex, but do NOT want those pictures loaded on my phone to have to look at.
Anon
I get the highest available and then still pay for iCloud storage. I don’t want to have to pick and choose which photos to delete. If I kept the photo, that means I want it.
Anon
I wrote in last week asking about using the curly girl method for wavy hair. I started the method last night and omg one day in and my hair already looks so different (and much better). I know there were some similar questions yesterday – go for it!!!
Abby
Yay! That’s so exciting – take pics so you can see how far your hair is going to change!
Anon
Oh I sent pics to several friends today! Excited to see where it goes from here.
How did I not know what my hair is actually like for 27 years?
Abby
frizz is just a curl waiting to happen! I thought I barely had 2B waves, and some days they’re looking a little more 2C. Keep me updated!
Anonymous
It took me 40+ years and a pandemic, so you are way ahead of me! I love my natural beach waves.
Anon
Now I’m intrigued. What were your first steps? I’m washing my hair today. I know it’s wavy but I don’t really love my wave pattern, as far as how I do it now
OP
I first washed with the neutrogrena clarifying shampoo. The next day I washed with the Not Your Mother’s curl shampoo (purple bottle) and conditioned with my hair upside down with the same conditioner. I let the conditioned sit for a while and then I “squish to condish” to rinse that out.
After I got out of the shower I applied the same line’s curl cream upside down using prayer hands. After that, I plopped in a t shirt for 20 mins. I went to bed with my hair wet and attempted to pineapple but my hair is short so most of my hair was not in the pineapple. I already sleep on a satin pillowcase so kept doing that.
Honestly I cannot believe the change in my hair overnight.
Anon
Thank you! I don’t have all the products but I’m going to give some of this a try!
Anononon
Really late to the party on this comment, but I have also been on the new-wavy-hair journey this pandemic. MopTop has a wavy package that has totally worked for me. Shampoo, light conditioner, leave in conditioner, and gel (maybe it also comes with a clarifying shampoo mini?). For styling I flip my hair over and scrunch in the leave-in conditioner, then scrunch the gel in over it, flip my head up and gently arrange my hair so I don’t look like a total crazy person. I don’t touch for a while and then “scrunch out the crunch” and the MopTop gel leaves my hair feeling really good once the crustiness is gone. MopTop’s website has been saying they have covid shipping delays, but both of my orders came very quickly.
Scottie
My spouse and I are in the process of buying our first house. How did you “know” that you wanted to buy your house/condo? We’ve seen a few things that are close, but not quite right or don’t check all the boxes. Did you hold out for just the right house or got close enough? Any stories of regret (either for not buying a certain house or for buying the not-quite house)?
CB
We are in the process of buying and for us, it was finding a house that solved our “problems” within our price range. The problems were the lack of a guest room/office, a poor school catchment, and a rough neighbourhood. And then there were some want to haves – a decent sized kitchen and a big garden.
Anonymous
I think that I had seen enough that I had a sense of what was realistic vs my wishlist. And I knew that I valued a short commute above all and a walkable neighborhood, so if those were constants, did it make sense to buy vs rent? With my variables, I’d not be able to afford a house, but was able to find a small townhouse end unit vs something with an elevator and lots of shared walls (even though the amenities were better I had a hell neighbor who partied / fought all night and just needed to sleep).
Anon
We were relocating for my husband’s job and were pretty much determined to buy a house before we moved (I know experts tell you not to do this, but I was just done with moving and was not about to move cross-country and then move again locally a year later). I made one house-hunting trip and saw a lot of houses that were big and new but I wasn’t really in love with any of them. We were going to put in some offers though, because whatever, we cared more about having *a* house than our dream house. But the morning I was leaving, we saw a house that was slightly older and smaller but in a prime location and I really loved the layout and open floor plan. We ended up making an offer and getting it and many years later I’m so happy this is our house. We remodeled the kitchen and finished the basement so it feels more like “ours” and honestly even 2,500 square feet sometimes feels like too much house for our family of 3 – I”m so glad we didn’t end up in one of those 5,000 square foot McMansions. We don’t need that much space and it would have just been a pain to clean and maintain.
I didn’t get this advice when I was house-hunting, but someone later told me that the only things about a house you really can’t change (at least not without tearing down the house) are 1) the location and 2) the basic footprint/floorplan, so you should focus on those things over minor things that are easy to change, like whether they have granite countertops or whatever. It’s hard because when you’re walking through houses, the small things are often what jumps out at you, but I think it’s very good advice.
Anonymous
+1
I’ve always bought for location. The last time, I realized that parts of the box were all wrong, but it was OK before a major remodel last year (requiring moving out) after 10 years of living there to be 100% sure (I was also 100% busy with young kids, and a lot of people would have sold before getting to the point of even bothering to fix hard things). You can’t fix location. That you have to move for.
Anonymous
This. Location is key and basic floorplan because structural changes get really expensive. And agree 100% that more space isn’t always better. I grew up in 4700sq ft + 1/2 acre lot and bought at 2700 sq feet + 1/3 acre lot. Even with three kids, it’s perfect. So much less to maintain.
The determinative factors will depend on how you live. We cook a lot so huge bright kitchen was key. If you bike to work, proximity to bike trails is key. We wanted to be able to walk the kids to school so we prioritized that too.
Scottie
Thanks, that’s a great point – that you can’t change the location or the footprint of a house. We are seeing a house in practically the perfect location but it has some flaws and is a tad over budget (like $10 to 15k over, not like $50k over). The kitchen layout is great, but the counters and cabinets need a refresh which seems like not a huge deal to do in the next year or two. My big question is how complicated is it to add a bathroom… hmmm… Thanks!
Betsy
The bathroom compromise was the one we made in our current house and while I love our house I am often very annoyed by not having another bathroom. In our case there isn’t a logical place to put another bathroom without changing the roofline of our house, so I think that it falls into the category of not being able to easily change the floor plan.
Anonymous
Small half bath you can put basically anywhere. A full bathroom is tough. Have a contractor walk through with you to see if they have any ideas.
Veronica Mars
I think doubt comes from not really knowing the market and what’s realistic in your area. Go see a lot of houses. I mean a lot. You’ll then learn if it’s even possible to have all of your boxes checked in your budget, in your ideal location. Once you’re informed, it’s pretty straightforward to know what you’re going to have to compromise on, and what to look for.
Equestrian Attorney
This. We are looking for a house and have what feels like a decent budget, but found out the hard way that the market in our city is insane and the homes that have all the things and are in our price range will go 100k over listing in a bidding war. So we have had to narrow down our criteria a bit (daylight, a yard, three bedrooms, close to transit, not a cookie cutter new build, our area of choice in a good school district) and we may need to embrace the fixer-upper (which creates so much uncertainty… how much will renovating cost? Who knows?)
Anonymous
Agreed. I’m house hunting and know my budget is super low for the town I want, so I can’t wait for a house that feels perfect- it will be 200k over my budget. I know what is reasonable to look for and what I won’t compromise on based on what Ive seen come and go on the market.
Senior Attorney
Yes to knowing the market. My new pandemic hobby is looking at all the new listings on Zillow and it’s a great, fun, easy way to know what’s out there.
Opal
We made 14 offers and #15 was accepted, so we took it? No snark intended, but offers 1-4 were fairly misguided in some regards. We had this “must have / like to have” list – very HGTV style. We went to SO many open houses to just get those first four offers out, dismissing an entire house for the tiniest of things. Then after losing out (by a LOT) in the bidding process, we had a wake up that we needed to get real and get to know our market better. After the first few losses, which were emotional and disappointing, we realized that Perfect Home didn’t exist and we just wanted A Home that would meet our needs. We’re in HCOL/competitive Boston suburbs. It came down to whether we wanted a house at all or if we wanted to hold out for the non-existent perfect house that we could also win in a bidding war.
Now in our second home, it’s larger and at a higher price point so it was slightly less competitive. Our first home wasn’t a dream home – it was actually pretty fugly from the outside – but we were able to sell in 4 years for about $100k over our initial purchase price in 2015. It served it’s purpose for us to build equity, and has enabled us to be where we are now. I’ll never regret the not-perfect house. I’m now in a close-to-dream-home (because I’m firmly in the camp that no such thing exists short of custom building) because of the choice to take the 15th in line.
Anon
I have a friend who will never find her house because of this exact reason. A house with all of her must-haves, in either an existing home or a new build, is at least $200k more than what she’s willing/able to spend. Even 2 years of stalking Zillow in our city hasn’t swayed her that this unicorn house of 1 story, on 1-3 acres, 2 car garage in town and updated to a current aesthetic doesn’t exist in the $250-350k price range. I’m starting to think that it’s become an excuse for just not getting her ish together and moving if her current (very nice, but further out from the city) house makes her so miserable.
Proximity to my work was my primary criteria when house-hunting, and I offered on the first place that was in liveable shape as-is that was close to my office (which is close to everything else in my city). Sure, there’s stuff I’d like to do to it, but it’s also perfectly habitable as-is. I offered full-asking price, as-is. I wasn’t about to quibble over a couple of thousand and needed to get moved.
tl;dr – figure out the intersection of your personal Venn diagram of “what I want” and “what’s in my price range” to determine what’s realistic.
Anon
A realtor friends says if you can check off 90% of your wish list or must-haves, you’ve found the right one. No house is perfect. Also, a strong gut feeling helps.
anonyK
We got close enough. We were also on a bit of a time pressure because we had to move within a certain time period- we were somewhat familiar with the new area because it was in the same state, not a cross country move or anything. My husband was more in a hurry to get something locked down than me, so he kind of forced us to stop looking and make a decision. I would have kept looking forever probably! This is our second house. The first was also under a bit of time pressure but we knew we wouldn’t stay more than 5-6 years so didn’t have the “dream house” pressure- we basically flipped that house while living in it. The current house is the forever/long term house.
If you are not under any time pressure, you are in a much better position. Agree with advice to see as many properties as possible to see what is available in your budget and then work on your must have/nice to have list from there. Floors/paint colors are easily changed so I disregard those things almost entirely except that changing can be an inconvenience (do it before you move in if you can!). Seeing properties and discussing them will help you hone in on what are your true non negotiables and what you can be flexible on. Sometimes this is hard until you actually imagine yourself living in a particular house.
For us, it became clear that lots of outdoor space and some degree of privacy outside was important, nice kitchen with good storage, decent public school district, and reasonable commute). Could be flexible on budget (with limits of course), dated fixtures/styling, modern v traditional vibe, and total size. We ended up in a house that is more traditional style than we wanted (not super open/modern), much bigger than I wanted (5000 sq ft vs my ideal of 2500-3000) and a bit dated (circa 1990), but the kitchen is fantastic, commutes are acceptable, we have great entertaining space (something important to my husband more than me), and my kids have a huge yard to play in plus woods they can wander through right out their front door- as a kid who grew up in a rural area, this was something that I was surprisingly emotionally attached to and had trouble imagining my kids growing up in a subdivision with a tiny patch of grass yard (something I only learned by touring houses). We have lots of privacy but are in a small neighborhood where we actually know all our neighbors and have a community kind of feeling. I love those things so much that it’s worth the hassle of maintaining all this extra space and updating the dated stuff.
Anonymous
Depends what your boxes are. Divide your list into things you can change vs. things you can’t. Things like location, type of neighborhood, whether it has a yard – you can’t change that, so you have to think about what you really need in a house. But if you’re nixing houses because the kitchen is old then consider whether you’re really ready to buy. No house is perfect and it’s not like you’re committing to a house forever. If you don’t like it you can move in a few years.
anon
We went to see a lot of houses. We didn’t know quite what we wanted before we started looking. We went by ourselves to several open houses in multiple neighborhoods before we decided on our target area. We saw a couple of multi-family units (we were living in one unit of a triplex that we owned), and I decided I wanted the privacy and freedom of a single-family home on our own lot. We also saw everything from brand new construction or flipped houses to houses where the previous owners had already ripped out floors and fixtures to prepare for a total reno, and we decided on something in between. We rejected some good houses for major reasons–location, price, layout, privacy, lack of yard, inability to fence in the yard.
I’m pretty happy with the choice we made. I have zero regrets about not buying any house we passed on. I have my eye on our market right now because my parents are thinking about moving near us, and I don’t think we could have done better within our budget. Our house is not perfect. No house is perfect. But after seeing a bunch of houses, we knew what was on our “must have” list and which neighborhoods we liked. Ultimately, we were choosing between two houses that had everything on our “must have” list, and each had other pros and cons. Between those two, we bought the larger house with more curb appeal, more storage, and a beautiful yard over the recently renovated house with a pool in a hot neighborhood. (But man, house #2 ultimately sold for 17% less than what it was listed for when we bought, and 12% less than we paid for our house. We may have decided differently if they’d priced it right from the beginning.)
Anon
With my first house, it was a little smaller than I’d hoped and slightly more expensive but the neighborhood was outstanding (a one block walk from groceries, many restaurants and coffee shops, bookstores, etc.) We sold it for more than twice what we paid about 10 years later, so it was totally worth the purchase price in hindsight.
For our second house I was where you are. I knew we wanted a bigger house, and I wanted to be in a similar walkable neighborhood. I didn’t like all of the houses I saw that were basically my little house with a huge ugly addition, so I wanted a house that was originally built to be 3+ bedrooms, 2+ baths. I wanted little things my little house didn’t have, like a coat closet, an entry hall, and a pantry. I saw a few houses like this but they’d been “updated” in some really ugly ways, like ripping out half of the original sleeping porch to be a huge master bath, but Tuscan style in a craftsman house.
Finally we found our house, and I knew it was our house from the moment we walked in. It’s bigger than I was initially looking for, at 5br and 2 1/2 baths, but it was more or less in original shape. This was a selling point to me, but both realtors were apologizing for it! It has been a labor of love and significant $ doing all the deferred maintenance and extremely careful updating (like redoing a terrible 1970s kitchen remodel) but the deferred maintenance was reflected in the price, and there was no bidding war, so we got it for less than the 3br houses we were looking at.
Fixing up and old house is not for everyone, but it’s for me. There will be some house that clicks for you. Keep looking!
AZCPA
I think this depends so much on your situaiton. If I truly needed to move, like for a job or to accommodate my family, then I’d make sure if checked off the big items like # of rooms, location, budget and get close enough on the rest.
But, in my case I wanted to upgrade from an ok home to a long term home. I spent over a year looking and ended up building. And am delighted with the result – barring significant unforeseen life changes, this really is our forever home. So it really depends on your personal situation and needs.
Anon
I usually have a drink either when I get home or with dinner, but I just started a position that requires me to be on call and thus not drinking.
What are your recommendations for non alcoholic alternatives to my nightly beer/wine/cocktail? Regular/flavored seltzer in its own doesn’t feel special since I drink it during the day. I like having a nightly drink because it feels like it signals the end of the work day to me.
Anonymous
Do you drink your seltzer from a can at work? If so, seltzer in a julep cup or fancy glassware might help. I saw a lady swigging from a big san pelegrino bottle yesterday — um, no. That’s a bad look.
Anon
Why is drinking water from a bottle a bad look????
anon
+1 Not sure what’s wrong with drinking Pelegrino from a bottle?
Anon
Obviously staying hydrated is unprofessional.
Anonymous
But was she drinking from the bottle while wearing a scrunchie?
Anonymous
I put bitters into my sparkling water, feels like a refreshing cocktail, sort of! And in the winter, tea.
Airplane.
Yep – seltzer bitters and lime. Cucumber spa water plus a preserved lemon and ginger. Mulled cider in the winter. Hot tea with a topping – cinnamon stick, lemon wedge, fresh herbs etc.
If you are trying to cut down on drinking – I like making alcholic drinks feel really special – I think it takes away from the experience if you have it every night after work or just at regular dinners. It helps me to think of it as a treat, a special occasion – I’ve had success buying really high quality champagne, tequila, single malt scotch and then saving it as a treat for myself. It makes it easier to say no to cheap water beer and other alcohol that I don’t really want. For me, life is too short to drink cheap beer and well liquor, I’d rather have fancy champagne on a night in I planned with all the trappings.
OP
See, I actually really like Miller Lite (I love nicer drinks too, but there’s something great about Miller Lite).
Anonymous
Bitters and club soda
a hot cup of herbal tea (which can feel remarkably like alcohol if you treat it that way- sitting down, relaxing, sipping it)
A sugary drink- I’ve been enjoying ikea’s elderflower syrup with lemon and seltzer, or really nice ginger ale
Anon
Have your nightly non-alcoholic drink in a fancy glass like you would a cocktail.
Betsy
I think making the drink is the trigger for me that the day is over, so I agree seltzer alone won’t work. During the summer I’ve been mixing seltzer with a juiced watermelon (just throw cubes watermelon in the blender) and mint, which is delightful. I haven’t figured out my fall drink yet – I’m thinking some variety of cider mixed with seltzer but I feel like it needs one more thing to feel like a proper drink. Maybe a slice of an orange or a cinnamon stick?
Anon
The AHA Apple+ Ginger Seltzer is GREAT. Target has a mint cucumber seltzer that is cocktail-y
Trader Joes had some good canned non-alcoholic juices/teas earlier this year (I haven’t been in awhile though)
Non-alcoholic ginger beer + lime
Black cherry juice + seltzer + flavored bitters
Mulled Cider
Anonymous
I like seltzer with tart cherry juice.
mascot
Kombucha can be a bit of an acquired tase, but there are some good options out there. I also like Dry Soda, particulary Cucumber and Lavendar flavors. Spindrifts are good too.
If you like making cocktails, the new book Zero looks interesting, at least on my insta feed.
Airplane.
+1 Kombucha (jalapeno cucumber) or drinking vinegar (lavendar flavored Shrub) can really perk up a seltzer. I even prefer it to mimosas with OJ as a champoagne topper .
Anon
If you don’t want to skip your drink, you can look into whether your on-call requires you to be alcohol free or not. My husband is on-call every other month for the whole month but that involves him mostly clearing certain alerts in an electronic system and deciding whether to follow up with a call/email/text or wait until morning. He has a lot of discretion. He is still allowed to consume alcohol despite his “on call” status. He just can’t decide to drive out to fix an issue if he’s had a drink. That person would have to wait until morning if he couldn’t trouble shoot it over the phone.
You may have already looked into this or it may be your personal comfort level, and that’s fine. I’m just chiming in to say that not all on-call policies require no-alcohol.
OP
I have to be able to drive immediately so I can have one or occasionally two but I try to not make it a habit. When I’m not on call (one full week every month) I have 1-2 drinks probably 3-4 nights a week after work/with dinner and more on weekends (or during the week if I’m socializing). I figure being on call is a nice reason to cut back for the week and I try to limit my on-call drinking for when I’m actually socializing.
My last job was more like your husbands – on call for a month at a time 4x a year, but had a 6-12 hour window so I could drink and have time to sober up if needed. (yes – I have spent my entire career being on call 1/4 – 1/3 of my life and no, I don’t get paid for it even though call MASSIVELY cuts into my personal life).
IL
Try a fancy root beer, birch beer, or sarsaparilla beer! There’s lots of little brands to explore. Also anything by Boylan in general feels like a treat to me.
anne-on
Shrub + seltzer water + diet tonic water is my go to, but I really really like the taste of tonic water myself. I’ve also done a splash of cranberry juice + selzter + lime + tiny bit of simple syrup and that’s lovely. I do sugared cranberries for the holidays (cranberries soaked in lime infused simple syrup and rolled in sanding sugar) and lime infused simple syrup is amazing in mocktails!
RW
Ginger beer + lime juice + mint. mix and match sparkling waters with home made flavoring syrups (i like coconut or vanilla seltzer + blackberry syrup). Shrubs are fun to play with and add to different seltzers.
Anon100
shrubs (vinegar-based fruit syrup, can buy from specialty retailers or online)/cordials mixed with seltzer water, sometimes garnished with a mint leaf or a slice of lime, depending on how fancy I’m feeling.
Anonymous
if you are a beer drinker, check out the offerings from Athletic Brewing — they make all different kinds of non-alcoholic beer in various craft-brewed styles. They taste good.
OP
Oh my corner store has one of their beers, will give it a shot!
kk
+1 I love Athletic beer
A.
If you’re still reading this, look into the shrubs from Heirloom Bottling Co. I went to college with one of the owners and their stuff is great with seltzer or tonic. Syrups are good too but I’m not as into sweet drinks.
Anon
For me, the cocktail shaker is a joyful sound and that signal you’re talking about – now the day is over. We don’t do it every day, but we do shake a cocktail most Fridays as a signal the week is over.
So how about virgin cocktails in a shaker? There are lots of fruit based cocktails that have pretty straightforward virgin versions. Shake it, serve it in a fancy glass, and all the end-of-day signals are there.
anon
Yesterday I found out I got a new job I’m very excited about. I will start in two weeks. Yesterday I also found out that our round of IVF worked, after two years of infertility. Assuming this pregnancy sticks (and it might not), I would be taking maternity leave in 9 months. Is this a big deal? County government, if that matters.
Vicky Austin
I don’t have any advice, but double congratulations!
Anon
Congrats x2! It’s not ideal, but it happens. My main concern would be maternity leave – you may not be eligible for any since you haven’t been there one year, so I would probably be inclined to disclose the pregnancy as soon as you feel comfortable so you can figure out the maternity leave situation. You obviously don’t have to say anything that makes you uncomfortable, but I think mentioning IVF and infertility might be useful if you want people to be less judgy about the pregnancy timing.
Anon
I wouldn’t mention IVF, just infertility: “This was a surprise since we have struggled with infertility for three years.”
Anonnn
I disagree. I have one successful IVF baby and I’m working on #2, for context on my response. But, I don’t think this is any of their business and shouldn’t be brought up, especially with a new employer that you don’t know well enough. Pregnancy is a fact of life. Plenty of people work through this situation all the time. The fertility/infertility doesn’t and shouldn’t come in to play at all in my opinion.
Anon
I wouldn’t even go there. Babies happen.
Anon
Congrats! As a government employee, family leave policies are probably available online. You’re generally not eligible for FMLA unless you’ve been an employee for a year and when I was a state employee, I seem to recall there was something about not being eligible for disability in the first year either, so there’s definitely a chance you might not have much leave covered beyond sick time and vacation, but look it up. The good and bad thing about working for the government is that policies are very fair: the same applies to everyone and they don’t make exceptions for people. The US system is crappy, so I really hope you work for one of the better county systems!
Anonymous
Yes it often is a big deal. Depending on your county and state you may not be eligible for any leave at all or any paid leave.
SuperAnon
I’m also a county government employee (in legal). Get the handbook from HR. It will tell you when you’re entitled to leave, etc.
And if the answer isn’t what you want – you may want to talk to them. Even in government (where there is less wiggle room) there is often some wiggle room, depending on your role.
And: congratulations, and sending you well-wishes and happy thoughts for a successful and healthy pregnancy!
Anne
Congrats! I was in a similar position – be ready to negotiate for FMLA equivalent unpaid leave (if that is what you want). FMLA won’t apply but most gvt jobs have discretionary unpaid leave you can be granted. Stay firm to get some time with you baby (if that is what you want)!
Anon
If you haven’t accepted yet and haven’t left your job yet, I would disclose to HR to try to negotiate some type of job protected leave. If they won’t give you any, you can stay in your current job. How about benefits? Can you afford them if you have to pay out of pocket for them during an unpaid leave?
Congratulations! I know how hard infertility is and I’m so happy for you the IVF works. Stinks the timing can’t always be what we choose.
anon
I hate my current job and really don’t want to stay in it. The role I’ll be going into is one that I have done previously and I love it. As far as benefits, I will stay on my husband’s benefits which are great. I’m fine with unpaid leave; I would hopefully just be able to get some protected leave. I’m assuming FMLA won’t cover me but hopefully I can use my sick and vacation days. I’ve wanted both this job and this pregnancy for so long, but it’s a little annoying they both happened at the exact same time!
Anne
Yeah, don’t give up on the opportunity, but do push for more unpaid leave then just sick and vacation time. I did end up getting three months but it took some back and forth. Years later no one begrudged me that time and it was invaluable to me.
Anon
Follow up to add, check your state leave laws. Many states provide protected unpaid leave for pregnancy that has better protections than federal FMLA.
Anon
I would not disclose a very early pregnancy to HR. I would take a leap of faith here. They’re not going to fire you for taking a reasonable maternity leave, especially if you’re fine with it being unpaid. I would not tell anyone I was 5 weeks pregnant (assuming that’s about where you are, OP). I’d wait until about 16 weeks.
Congratulations!!!!
Anonymous
Congrats. That is amazing on both counts! Once you hit the point of telling people, sit down and talk to your supervisor to allow him/her time to plan for when you will be out. I am in state government and I have often hired people who either were pregnant when hired or got pregnant shortly thereafter. Never a problem for us! Government tends to be really good about leave.
anonyK
I had a similar situation 2 years ago. I got a new job when I was mid first trimester with our 2nd, but it was after 18 months of trying and two losses, so I was in no way confident it would work out. New job was state govt job and I was self-employed at the time so wasn’t losing out on any maternity leave by taking the job. I was about 10-12 weeks when I started the new job. I did not tell my new boss until I had been there for two months, so around 20 weeks. I waited because I wanted to make sure the anatomy scan went well and because I wanted to have a few months to “prove myself” and have them get attached to me before I broke that news. Also relevant- new boss was a woman with 2 kids. It was fine (and I did disclose the prior losses for bonus sympathy points and to explain why I waited so long to tell). I did not qualify for FMLA but did qualify for a new parental leave law for state employees. I only took 12 weeks and I would caution not to expect/ask for more than that under these circumstances (I took 16 weeks with my first). For government, it would take them more than 12 weeks to post a position, interview, hire, and train them, so there isn’t a lot of incentive for them to fire you, especially if they like what they’ve seen so far from you. So, do your research on what you might qualify for leave-wise and have reasonable expectations (12 wk unpaid). Work really hard to prove yourself upfront. I would not disclose before accepting the job unless the answer re leave would change your decision to accept or not.
Congrats and good luck!
anonyK
Also, prepare yourself for a tough few months. The exhaustion, nausea, and anxiety of first trimester + trying to make best first impression and adjust to new job is really hard. It is doable, but it is tough.
Senior Attorney
It’s a huge deal!! By which I mean CONGRATULATIONS!!
Your employer will get over it — these things happen.
Follow up on Difficult Staffer
So, I wrote in a couple weeks back about my challenges with the staffer.
It continues to be frustrating, but I’m staying on it because I know I need to for the morale of my other staffers (who ARE working!). I’ve gotten the okay to start requesting daily work plans and status updates. As somebody else suggested, I am sending LOTS of helpful check-ins throughout the day.
I’ve also started doing everything via email as I realize that allowing staffer to text was basically not holding him accountable to being near a workstation. In thinking about why this seemed so hard for me, I realized that… prior to this job, I had FANTASTIC staff. I was able to clearly explain what I wanted and give them huge flexibility to accomplish the goals that we’d discussed. This had the benefit of developing really strong, happy staff (all of my prior team have stayed with the organization and been promoted and are highly sought after staffers) who also developed a really thoughtful understanding of their work and how to present to higher ups.
I can’t do that now. There can be no flexibility with some of them. It’s “You fill out this chart. No, not that chart, the one I emailed you at 10:01AM on 9/25. No, you update the whole chart.” That’s it. And it stinks, but it’s who I have to be right now.
Anonymous
Congrats. It’s a horrible situation but if you ever interview for another job and have to talk about dealing with a difficult situation, it gives you a fantastic story about the concrete steps you took to manage a difficult employee.
Follow up on Difficult Staffer
If this doesn’t send me screaming from the workforce, absolutely.
Anon
OMG I was thinking of you today! I’m the one in similar shoes. My person completely botched filling out a chart in a way I can’t even comprehend but she was at least very apologetic and says she now understands how to do it correctly going forward. We will see. Some of these mistakes though I just do not understand how someone can make.
Follow up on Difficult Staffer
Solidarity.
It’s really a tough balance… staffer is also going through some medical issues; however… last year it was his wife going through medical issues and so I couldn’t be tough on him and then it was his dog was sick and then his adult child was having a messy divorce and just… this is someone who will always have an excuse.
So I’m literally having to say things that seem almost unsympathetic like, ‘I understand that you had multiple doctor’s appointments today, but I need you to tell me that so I’m not looking for you to log on.’
Anonymous
That’s not unsympathetic in the least. I would have said:
“I have retroactively granted your request for leave. In the future, please provide at least 24 hours notice of any times you will be unavailable for work and require leave.”
Anon
In my experience, which is extensive as I advise on HR, a problem employee will always be “going through some medical issues.” This is a way that problem employees protect themselves and try to create the impression that they are untouchable. It really stinks, because the end result is that it creates a negative impression for employees with actual medical issues and disabilities.
Anonymous
I feel you so much right now, as I am supervising an employee who is exactly like this. They need a great deal of hand-holding and phone calls while sitting at the workstation and jointly going through things line by line.
Anon
I feel you. I was assigned an assistant once who just didn’t see herself as an assistant. She was a near college graduate (stopped a few units short) and my requests for things like “hey, Ashley, could you copy these things and file them?” were met with “why can’t you do it?” when she had no other work from me. It’s not like she was busy, she was just browsing the Internet. Part of the problem was that I really liked her as a person, but boy did she have an attitude about doing work she considered beneath herself.
I got really lucky and so did she – some other department decided to take a chance on her and put her in a professional entry level role that usually required a college degree – but I was moments away from putting a woman who was basically my friend on a performance improvement plan.
(And for the end of the story, in short order she moved cities with the professional job, then met a super wealthy guy and has now been a very fancy UES/Hamptons housewife ever since. I seriously cannot imagine her life but I’m happy for her!)
Anon
I just wanted to say you are doing a great job navigating your way through this. It’s a tough situation and you are absolutely doing the right thing by reaching out for feedback and advice. I agree with the poster above that while this is difficult and a pain in the butt, it is amazing experience that you’ll get to talk about in interviews for years to come. Hard to believe maybe, right now, but you’ll eventually be grateful you had this experience.
Anonymous
I’m trying to date in these interesting times, and about a month ago, a great-sounding man wrote me a nice message ending ala “my life is in flux but I didn’t want to wait any longer to talk to you”.
Fluxwise, it’s a lot: he’s getting divorced after 10 years (been in process a full year), moving into his own place this month, his young kids are doing remote school and he has them half time, and he works long hours in what sounds to me like big law.
My BFF suggested I let him do more of the reaching out/planning to judge how much he’s able to give right now…which seems sensible. In practice, though, I always initiate contact, but after I do, we talk or text for hours…then it’s silence after that conversation until I initiate the next one. I left it for over two weeks at one point, nothing from him…then I finally texted, almost sure he’d lost interest, but he called me immediately and we talked for two hours.
We’ve gone on one very fun date so far, and as we were leaving he suggested we do (specific thing) together soon. I said it sounded great. But no message after the date saying he had a nice time, just silence until I cracked days later and texted him, when he said how much fun he had, and he was free to do (specific thing) the next week. I said yes…then silence. It’s now the next week…and no message about scheduling or anything else.
I’m sure if I write, he’ll say “yes, let’s do X day!”…but this is a sign he’s not available, right? What’s throwing me is the seeming indifference in his lack of reaching out, contrasted with his immediate enthusiasm when I finally reach out to him…rinse, repeat.
I’m actively trying to meet other men so not hung up on him, but I rarely like anyone so much, so it would suck to squander this if the issue is busyness or crossed signals. At the same time I feel like if a man is truly interested, he’ll generally pursue you.
I don’t know whether to just write him off, accept it for now and write to him whenever I want, seeing if it changes as his life settles down, or ask directly “what’s up with this?” I don’t even know how I’d phrase that question!
Anon
I’d ask directly. Say you are interested and really enjoy your time together but have noticed that it’s only you initiating and contact and wondered why he thinks that is. Either he’ll realize he was being an idiot and change his patterns or he won’t, in which case you move on.
Anonymous
This man is still married and doesn’t have time to date you! He never even contacts you. Sure. He’s happy to see you or speak to you so long as you put in 100% of the effort but he won’t even put in 10%. And this is the early days! He’s only going to do less with time.
“John Mayer, it’s been great chatting with you but you’re clearly not in a place to date now. Best wishes, Tay.”
And the move on.
Anon
+1 for your references!
Anonymous
He’s going through a divorce. He is not emotionally available right now it sounds like. I’d write this one off.
Anon
I dunno, my (uncontested, amicable, mediated) divorce took 22 months to finalize, and I was emotionally available and happily dating for most of that time. I wouldn’t automatically write someone off just because the judge takes 11 months to sign the papers. ELEVEN. MONTHS.
Anon
Were you living with your ex-spouse that whole time? Because if not, TOTALLY different situation.
anon
+1. The “moving into his own place this month” is key. He hasn’t moved into his own place. That’s typically where the process of deciding whether to get divorced ends and the process of actually getting divorced starts. (I’ve heard of exceptions, where both people stay in different spaces and live largely separate lives within the marital home, but these are unusual and probably not ideal. OP doesn’t owe him the benefit of the doubt here.) Basically, this guy sounds like he hasn’t started the divorce process. At best, he has started it within the past 2 weeks.
Anonie
You deserve someone who won’t let 2 weeks pass without speaking to you. You deserve someone who doesn’t let every conversation drop until you ping him again.
And also, I know everyone’s situation is different and perhaps he is being entirely honest, but plenty of men use “going through a long divorce” as a cover for cheating on wives whom they have zero intention of divorcing. Combined with the lack of conversation initiation, I would STRONGLY advise you to stay away from this one.
Good on you for actively dating other men.
Anon
+1 this man is not divorced or getting divorced. He is married, and it seems like he intends to stay married.
Anon
+2. My hot take: this may be one of those situations where he’s not getting along with his wife (or he’s really bored with her), maybe divorce or separation has been mentioned, and this is his way of seeing what else is out there in case the marriage really does fall apart. And maybe a way to get some attention he feels like he’s not getting in his marriage (which, by the way, is not his wife’s fault or issue, but a signal that the guy is an immature selfish oaf. If the marriage is in trouble he should be spending time working on the marriage or being with his kids!). I imagine if the OP talked to this guy’s wife, the wife would be very surprised to hear they are in the midst of a divorce.
Anon
Yep, I doubt he’s really moving out. Move on and don’t waste your time with a cheater. What a scum.
Monday
The OP seems not to know where he works, or maybe even what he does, and that could definitely mean he’s trying to date in secret.
Anonymous
OP here, thanks everyone for your comments, and just to say I do know his employer and job but I am not a lawyer so have only heard of “biglaw” from this site.
Anon
Someone else said it! I’m not the hater.
You can actually look up whether or not divorce has been initiated. County court records are amazing.
Anon
I dunno about your actual question but the fact that he’s allegedly been getting divorced for a full year but is only just now thinking about moving out of the house is a giant red flag to me. This man is still married. Is that what you want? And I don’t mean “separated for years but still legally married because this case is taking forever to go through the court system” married. He is “still living in his martial home with his wife” married.
Anonymous
Yeah, regardless of whether you think it’s appropriate or morally right to date a man who is still married and living with his wife, he’s not available in the way that you want.
Anon
“I’m actively trying to meet other men so not hung up on him, but I rarely like anyone so much, so it would suck to squander this if the issue is busyness or crossed signals. At the same time I feel like if a man is truly interested, he’ll generally pursue you.”
Here’s my cynical take: you can squander an opportunity to date someone for a couple of months if you chalk this up to “busyness” and “crossed signals” and do all of the emotional labour yourself, but you aren’t going to squander the opportunity with someone who has long-term potential.
anon
I wouldn’t touch someone who is “getting divorced” and not yet moved out with a 10 foot pole. Especially given everything else you’ve written, it sounds quite unlikely that he is emotionally available for a relationship. Trust me: not fun, not worth it. Even if you really, really like them and rarely meet people you like. In my experience, that’s even more of a reason to move on because you’re setting yourself up for a world of hurt.
Anon
Sorry, harsh truths ahead:
– He’s just not that into you. That’s it, and that’s all. He is not “too busy.” There are no mixed messages. People here have said it for a long time and you said it yourself in your post: interested men pursue; disinterested men do not. Sure, if you reach out and he’s bored and there’s nothing good on TV, why not spend two hours on the phone to kill time and get his ego stroked by talking to a pretty girl who’s into him? What guy wouldn’t do that, really, if they had the opportunity? That behavior does not equal “I like you and want to be in a relationship with you” and it’s important to understand that difference. I know it’s great to meet an exciting person and contemplate all the great possibilities but you need to adopt the attitude of, if you hear from him, great. If you don’t, there are millions of men out there. Mentally move on and if you get into a situation where he picks up the conversation and then drops it over and over again, constantly leaving you hanging, that’s what the “block” feature on your phone is for.
– Newly divorced men (if he is, in fact, newly divorced, which I have some doubts about frankly) are notoriously fickle and unpredictable creatures. They exist in a weird reality where all of a sudden things that were off-limits to them for years (like dating multiple women at a time) are now possible again and yet it also is entirely possible he could reconcile with his ex and go back to his old life, wholeheartedly. Personally, I would write this guy off until and unless he starts showing some real interest on a consistent, predictable basis. But if you choose to hang in there with this one, I would just be prepared that it is going to be a very up-and-down, fluid situation for a long time. I personally wouldn’t have the time, patience or emotional space for it, but you do you.
Anon
Don’t get invested in this guy. He doesn’t have time for you and he’s still married! Girl, come on.
Anonymous
He’s just not that into you.
Kitten
This.
EVERY time I’ve been in this situation, this was the correct answer and I should have kept my dignity and stopped initiating. Some guys are very charming/outgoing so it can feel like they are into you when you’re actually spending time together, but a guy who wants you will pursue you.
Senior Attorney
Yes, sadly this.
Men who want to be with you will move heaven and earth to make it happen. And men who don’t, won’t.
SuperAnon
Run. Run run run run.
I dated a man just like this (done with his divorce, but still very much processing what that meant about him/his kids), and he did not have time or space to make someone part of his life in a real way. He was very excited when I would reach out, but I was doing all the structural and emotional labor in the relationship.
As someone who has been there: it sounds, like my ex, as if he’s not in a place to be a partner to someone right now, if that’s what you’re ultimately looking for. If that’s not, and you’d like someone to hang out with occasionally, then I say cool, but understand that you’re likely to be the one doing most of the work.
SuperAnon
Oh man, I missed the part initially how he’s not even living independently after a YEAR of “getting divorced.”
Run, do not walk, away from this man.
Anon
I’ve seen this thrown around the internet recently, “If he wanted to and could, he would”. This man is either not interested or not able to pursue you right now and that’s okay. Maybe you guys will meet up again in the future, or maybe he’s just not right and that’s also okay. But don’t waste your energy being the only one reaching out right now.
Monday
I’ve seen this thrown around the internet recently, “If he wanted to and could, he would”. This man is either not interested or not able to pursue you right now and that’s okay. Maybe you guys will meet up again in the future, or maybe he’s just not right and that’s also okay. But don’t waste your energy being the only one reaching out right now.
Senior Attorney
Absolutely 100% every word of this.
Brunette+Elle+Woods
Stop reaching out. He’s not that into you. As everyone else said, if a guy was really interested, he would be pursuing you. When it works out and the woman did most of the pursuing, that’s the exception, not the rule as taken from the movie. Get yourself some ice cream and wine and watch a good movie on this rainy (if you’re in NYC) Friday.
Anon
He’s just not that into you.
Anon
Vote Forward mailing day is tomorrow! How many letters are you sending out? I’ve got 220 and I wish I had more. I’m making more donations this week too and I hung up my Biden sign. Let’s keep the good energy going!
Anon
I am sending 440 (I still have hand cramps)! Thanks for keeping the good energy going here!
Anon
i’m so impressed they hit their goal of 15 million. i saw a sign the other day that i loved, it says “bydon.” now i am starting to get scared that we won’t ever really know who the winner is bc i don’t trust the system to be honest, which is a very scary thought
Anonymous
Nothing personal, but this is not actually going to change anyone’s mind on who to vote for. But you are keeping usps in business so at least there’s that?
Kitten
Yea when I want info I look it up online. I throw away any campaign materials I receive and it only has potential to negatively influence my opinion. I feel like it would be a better use of time to get a second job and donate that money.
election work
1. These aren’t campaign materials; they are encouraging people to vote.
2. Believe it or not, there are people out there who would otherwise sit home, and nudges to get them to vote can make a difference. (Like calls and text banking – I hate getting them, and they don’t do anything to affect my behavior, but they do work on some people, and I don’t begrudge volunteers for trying, but feel grateful for their efforts.) People who are actively looking up info online and voting regularly are not the targets for these letter-writing efforts.
3. Money is great, and you’d be donating it to candidates who generate campaign materials – because they work, maybe not on you, but they do work on some people.
Anony
After the 3rd visit by a rep for person running for office, I told the 20-something that if they showed up again that I would have to reconsider my vote. Stop bugging me. Not to mention the 800 mailers I receive a day. Want my vote? Make a promise to not send out mailers (SO MUCH WASTED MONEY) or send people to my house.
election work
It’s about turnout. Vote Forward did an empirical study of their prior targeted letter campaigns, and turnout increased 3+% among those who received letters. It could make a difference.
140,000+ people have written letters for this election through this org alone (there are others). We should encourage such grass roots civic involvement. I myself have never participated in elections before (other than voting), and am inspired by how many people have stepped up to do more than complain and despair (which I absolutely do too).
Kitten
Wow 3% could definitely make a difference. I guess not everyone is as curmudgeonly as me.
election work
140 letters here. Thanks to everyone who is contributing!
Anon
50 here!
The Original ...
Sending love as we struggle and succeed in so many different ways during this very strange very scary time <3
Checking in… how are you? (Not as in the answer you give in passing but truly, how are you?)
Abby
I was just thinking this morning that a year ago I fully realized how miserable I was at my old job and dreaded going to work. A few weeks later I’d reach a breaking point and start applying, and I’d be offered a position in January 2020. So in a weird way, I am much happier in 2020 than 2019, especially regarding my new job & how they handle covid.
A very annoying & privileged answer, but I have a lot to be grateful for, which is hard to remember with everything going on and the weather getting colder!
ArenKay
This is NOT annoying and privileged, Abby–let me reframe this for you, as someone who remembers your posts about your toxic old job, and worried that your pandemic job offer would fall through. We have lots of folks on this board who are unhappy with their jobs right now and worried about their future and if they can leave. You are a good example, and a reason for people who hate their jobs to keep looking for something better.
Abby
this made me tear up a little. Thank you! I appreciate this reframe of mindset (:
Ribena
Similar boat. In my old role I felt beaten down and now I’m valued and listed as a key person dependency.
KS IT Chick
I kind of feel the same way. Last week, I realized that while I genuinely loved my old job, I was constantly frustrated and angry about never having enough. Never enough people, money and time to do the job to the best degree. While I like my new job, I don’t love it. But I don’t have that deep-seated frustration anymore, because there is enough. The organization doesn’t half-@$$ stuff, including how they treat the people who work for them.
While 2020 is a complete dumpster fire in so many ways, I am so fortunate to have a good job that understands treating employees and customers with respect.
No Problem
I’m not sure why, but this hit me in the feels. Thank you for posting.
I guess I’m doing ok. I’m bored at work, I’m craving social interaction, and I need a vacation with other people to a fun destination (which can’t happen right now). And I’m single, and this whole pandemic has been a giant FU to trying to meet someone. But nothing in my life is BAD right now, so for that I’m grateful.
Kate
Tired. No longer exhausted, but really tired. Realized this morning that my fatigue, dizzy spells, etc. are probably due to my horrible diet lately (I skip meals when I’m buried at work – hours fly by and I still don’t get enough done). My work is sensitive to COVID and my region is still pretty bad.
I’m continually trying to zoom out at the big picture. My family is mostly healthy/taking COVID seriously. The election is almost here. (fingers crossed). I have a job, my salary is roughly what I expected from the beginning (been working way more but at least I have work), and I love where I live.
Anon
An odd mixture of grateful and angry. I am much more thankful than I have ever been for my husband and the fact that I live in a safe home, but I’m angry at people who don’t wear masks or take this seriously and that my boss seems to care more about rushing to reopen the office as fast as humanly possible than about my safety as a high-risk individual. What’s even more galling is she says in one breath “only people who are comfortable doing should come in” and then in the next “people will be required to come in when we hit phase 3.” It causes so much needless stress for a lot of us at work, especially since literally every single aspect of our jobs can be done perfectly from home.
Basically, I feel like I would be perfectly grateful and reasonably happy with my life in these circumstances if I could keep the reminders that many other people don’t care about my health very much at bay. I’m still grateful and reasonably happy but not as much as I would be.
Anon
I’m ok. I feel like I should be better given the things I have (good health, financial security, school for my kids). I’m just really sad about not knowing when I will see my family or closest friends again (they’re all a plane flight away) and not having anything to really look forward to. I’ve realized how much of my enjoyment in life came from anticipating the next trip or family visit or party or whatever and now that every day is basically the same it’s just hard, even though the days themselves are mostly quite pleasant. The holidays are going to be extremely hard – I’ve never gone a whole holiday season without seeing my parents and am going to miss them so much. Plus it feels like we’re the only ones still taking Covid seriously, so my FB will be flooded with pictures of families celebrating together, which will make me even sadder.
anon
I could’ve written all of this. Life is basically good, but I am feeling so much sadness about everything. We haven’t seen some of our best friends since February. I can’t envision how my family will celebrate the holidays. I’m tired of coming up with crummy, second-rate alternatives for literally everything. IDK, I am awfully tired of living this way.
Anon
Hugs to you. I’m so tired of the crummy second-rate alternatives too.
Vicky Austin
I’m okay this week. Overall, I’m in a much better place now than I was this time last year (and as usual Abby and I are twinning, lol). Therapy has done me worlds of good. This week has been rough – not enough time to exercise, have an exam coming up in school, and got an offer on a house we really liked rejected. I’m looking forward to the weekend to get the exam over with, chill and reset a little.
Abby
0 surprise there (: Very bummed for you about house hunting, but it will happen!
Vicky Austin
We’re hanging in there! <3
Anon
I’m so tired of this and it feels like it will never end. I don’t want to live like this forever.
Anon
I’ll be the weirdo here. Anyone seen the South Park episode on the pandemic? I’m Cartman. I love having an excuse to get out of all social interaction except for those I deem worthy. I love working from home. I love that there are no trials for the foreseeable future so my job got so less stressful. I love that my job is still very busy though so I am not concerned about losing income. I have a big house with a fenced yard for my dogs and a dedicated office. I’m getting so much more outside time. I take a break at 3 and get a long walk in before the sun sets and then I work some more after dinner. That would all be frowned upon if we were still in the office. No kids. I’m still cautiously doing car rides to see my parents and hopefully my husband’s parents but that will depend on our stats closer to Thanksgiving.
I’m sad that so many industries are failing and I truly feel bad for so many people that have it worse off than me. But for me and me alone, this has been great. No evening networking events. No going to friend’s kid’s birthdays that I don’t really enjoy but am obligated to attend. No stressful international travel planning that my husband loves to do.
My, my dogs, my yard and nature. I’m in selfish bliss. Now I just need a six foot pole (like Cartman) to take with me on the rare occasions I go to the grocery store.
Anon
I’ll add one thing that I don’t really know how to politely word. Anyone who has been through infertility will understand. We were trying for 5+ years with IUI, IVF adoption and we finally just closed that door and decided we are going to lead an amazing child free life. However, our friends with kids were always (unintentionally) in our face about all of the wonderful kid things we were missing out on. Now that pandemic parenting is so much harder and people aren’t taking their kids to do all sorts of amazing things and the parents are struggling to work and homeschool (which trust me, I don’t wish on anyone) it just makes me feel better about our “failed” attempt at parenting. While we felt so left out and behind and missing out for so long, now we get to be the people that are doing the best and are happiest and thriving, albeit because of a terrible pandemic.
I’ll take that brief respite from constantly hearing the amazingness of parenting and to be able to briefly enjoy that for once, our child free status is benefitting us. We can appreciate it instead of mourning what we don’t have.
To be clear, I don’t wish bad things on parents at all, it is just helped me see a brighter side of our situation.
Anon
I’m totally with you but in a slightly different way. I am divorced and share custody of my kid. Generally, I would not wish this on anyone. But I feel about work the same way you do, and the combination of having more hands on time with my kid and 50% time to just relax and be antisocial and read books and do yoga and face masks has been amazing. I feel like I have it as good as anyone in a pandemic possibly can (maybe second to you!), and definitely feel kinda guilty about it.
Anon
Weirdo here, chiming in a third time – my bliss could also be I just found the right antidepressant for me.
Anon
I mostly feel this way (including finally getting a silver lining to a painful history of infertility), but it has still been hard to miss large family gatherings (yes, they went ahead with them) and generally people who live in other states that I would normally be visiting. My overall quality of life has been higher, but I’m also realizing how much I relied on travel to maintain relationships!
LaurenB
What is hardest to deal with is how self-centered so many other Americans are. I am in a state that locked down fairly early and instituted a mask mandate. I kept seeing friends in other states post on Facebook posts exhorting their friends/family to wear masks and I was like — huh? who’s not wearing a mask? — but assumed it was just a few morons here and there. Well here we are 8 months into the whole thing and yep, vast parts of this country not wearing masks or social distancing because mah freedum. It’s really disheartening that a simple instruction got so politicized.
The other thing that is hard about this is what I’ll call a level of distrust of other people. Something slips, and I find out that so-and-so in my life is a Trumper, and I feel like … what? How? Do I want to even deal with this person, ever again? I sort of am eyeing with suspicion people where I don’t know their political views, like neighbors where we’ve never discussed it, or the owners of small businesses I frequent. In years past, differences of political opinion were just that, differences, but it’s a whole other universe now.
Anon
Um, Illinois is not actually doing that great. Didn’t you set record case numbers multiple times this week?
LaurenB
Yep, people are getting tired and relaxing their vigilance and it’s not a good thing. I fully expect we are going to have to go back a step or two in the fall, and I expect a bad fall / winter.
pugsnbourbon
Marriage is good. Everything else feels like a dumpster fire?
I got some not-great health news this week which threw me for a loop. I feel like I’m constantly playing catch-up at work (tho today is a bit better). A trans woman was shot and killed just a few miles from our home. I am actively dreading the election. I miss my family – especially my nephew – so, so much.
Like other posters above, I objectively have so much to be grateful for: a stable job, a partner I love, a safe home, etc. The exhaustion and the fear still get overwhelming some days.
Is it Friday yet?
This comic kind of sums it up (hopefully not to languish in mod): https://www.instagram.com/p/CGX0eEyhpXe/
Anonymous
Scared. I was WFH from a cabin in the middle of nowhere and have had nothing since February but a short cold. We came back home and I promptly got a respiratory virus with a fever and ended up on Covid watch. I tested negative but it scared me that with all the precautions we have been taking it’s still so easy to get sick. I am not in an area with Covid scofflaws, but a blue area taking appropriate precautions. Please, everyone, I know this is hard, but don’t let your guard down!
Anonymous
I am exhausted. I want things to go back to normal. I want my kids to go back to school. They need their friends and their teachers and their classrooms. I want to go back to my office. I miss my co-workers. I miss the ability to hear myself think in my quiet office. I want to visit my incarcerated clients. I want to actually go to court at the beautiful downtown courthouse. I want to have weekly sushi lunch with my other lawyer-mom friends. I want to have weekly Sunday brunch with my siblings, nieces and nephews, and my parents. I don’t want to do anything “virtually” ever again.
Anon
+1 million to “I don’t want to do anything virtually ever again” I am so over Zoom.
anon for this
Not good. My ability to manage my life is slowly eroding. I’m behind at work but can’t seem to focus long enough to catch up. (Depression? ADHD? Just a normal reaction to the state of the world?) I would throw just about any amount of money at a solution but can’t think of what that looks like. The only thing keeping me sane is daily exercise but it’s going to get too cold to be outside for long soon.
What I really want is to be able to take like a 6-month leave from work and just lean in to the wallows for the winter, but I don’t think I can do that and keep my job.
Anon
You don’t need to think of the solution; I really recommending starting with your doctor and going from there.
Betsy
That sums up exactly how I am feeling.
Anon
I was like this and got an antidepressant and I’m no longer as much of a mess. I can’t recommend it enough.
Senior Attorney
I don’t even know. I’m hanging in there. Work is just boring and lonely even though I have been going to the office the whole time. I miss travel and bars and friends and fun. I still adore my sweet husband. I am cautiously optimistic that there will be a big blue wave on Nov 3 but I am petrified there won’t be. Basically just on pins and needles waiting for that outcome.
A.
I am overwhelmed. I know I’m lucky: our little family is healthy, my kids are in in-person school, and I’m still working and doing a job I love. But COVID has made every decision so, so hard and all I want is my old life back: I want to have drinks with friends, take my daughter to gymnastics, host our big annual Halloween Trick or Treat gathering. We live in Wisconsin, which is both a swing state and the epicenter of the US pandemic. Everything is political RN. It is all too much. Plus my husband just got a promotion at work so I’m doing All of The Things at home because he’s barely hanging on too…and I worry about winter, because what little (outdoor, socially distanced) interaction we do have is going to evaporate pretty soon as the temps keep dropping.
CountC
Thank you for asking.
I have days where I am just okay, and then I have days where I am very much NOT OKAY. Work is a dumpster fire because we are hugely understaffed, one of the major industries we supply into is a hot mess due to COVID so everyone is crazypants, my depression is FULL FORCE (upped my dosage), my desire to do the things I normally enjoy has evaporated, I cry almost daily at work, I am drinking too much, and not eating well. I lost out on a promotion to someone who was just a teensy bit more qualified (she’s great, so I get it and am okay with it) and then they decided to change the position she is vacating to hire a more junior external person even though all the bosses/big bosses swore they wanted to find me something and advance me within the company, blah blah blah. I know the choice about what to do with that position isn’t about not giving CountC an opportunity, but it was still hugely disappointing to me.
There are good parts though, my friends are amazing and have stepped up when I needed them to, I have a safe place to live, food on my table, my family is healthy, most of my pets are healthy, and we were finally able to diagnose my horse with EPM and start treatment.
As I told my mentor today in tears, it’s A LOT.
Anon
I’m pretty sure I have high functioning anxiety. Normally, I juggle things well and have enough time of release to balance fairly decently. Now though, not so much. However, it is resulting in me doing a lot career-wise and CV-wise, which is good for me. I am struggling with whether to try to do something about the anxiety so I feel better but worry that focusing on that right now would mean no longer feeling the drive to do the things that I know will professionally benefit me in the future.
Any advice or feedback would be appreciated!
Anonymous
I’d be skeptical about the self-diagnosis. Doesn’t anxiety typically paralyze you so you can’t get things done?
Anon
Another anon here: https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-high-functioning-anxiety-4140198
emeralds
+1. I definitely put myself in the high functioning anxious person camp, even though I’ve never had a diagnosis–I can go through that article and check off almost every thing. Through trial, error, and a lot of research, I’ve learned how to channel it as motivation but mitigate the parts of it that I, personally, found the most destructive. (And full disclosure, the pandemic has been really hard for me, even as someone who generally has things under control. I’ve been close to asking my PCP for a diagnosis and drugs a few times, even though I’ve never felt the need before.)
OP, I think you should listen to the voice that’s telling you to spend some time addressing this. It doesn’t have to mean that you become less driven or less successful; it may just mean that you are more intentional about how you execute that success, and how much harm you do to yourself in the process.
Anonymous
What kind of website is this? It’s not clear. I usually try to get my information from the Mayo Clinic, etc.
Anon
This post as phrased actually reminds me more of the ADHD conversation we’ve been having. (Drumming up some adrenaline is a very common strategy that people with undiagnosed and untreated ADHD rely on!)
Anon
Also, Wellbutrin is often a good choice for ADHD related anxiety.
anon
It can paralyze you, but it’s also a motivator. In fact, I wouldn’t say that paralysis is typical. Not OP, but my anxiety powered a lot of my great work and career development until I got so totally burned out that I just couldn’t sustain it.
anne-on
Heck no, this is actually fairly common in women. I also have high functioning anxiety which means, for me, if I’m not operating at 120% at all times I have severe anxiety about how I’m a bad mom/employee/wife/etc. and on the verge of being fired despite loads of evidence to the contrary. Medication was a game changer – Wellbutrin works best for me. It’s sad that I am/was actively amazed that due to being properly medicated I have not had a single anxiety attack during the pandemic. Previously I would have 4-6/year, and almost always on vacation (because I am REALLY bad at not having *things* to do and having to relax).
Anonymous
I occasionally get sharp, piercing pains throughout my abdomen and ribcage. I don’t think it’s constipation (thanks internet) and my gyno says “who knows.” Anyone else?
EM84
Not normal, talk to your GP, they should order tests.
Anonymous
How long does it last? As a kid, I had precordial catch syndrome. It recently flared up out of the blue, and I had forgotten what a weird feeling it was! And it would be scary if I didn’t experience it so often earlier in my life (it’s harmless).
Anon
I had that, and it turned out to be a side effect of Allegra.
Also could be IBS. Does it feel like a spasm?
Anonymous
I had symptoms on and off like that for about 4 or 5 months before I saw a doctor and it turned out to be a ruptured appendix. I ended up having surgery the day I finally went to the Dr.
Anon
That’s incredible. Wouldn’t you have had a fever? Real pain? I’ve had stabbing pain in that area for months, like what used to happen when I ovulated, but a sonogram was clear.
Anon
For those of you who attend church – how religious are you?
I was raised Episcopalian (love the church, and very grateful that I was raised in a progressive faith that still aligns with my values), but I haven’t practiced in years. I liked that church was a calming one hour break from my week and found comfort in the ritual. I also think that Jesus is a great role model; however, I don’t believe in the divinity of Jesus. I think there’s a lot of good coming from the Episcopal Church and good lessons coming from Jesus, I’m just not a “believer” and so the worship aspect of church always felt off to me. I recently found out that my dad is the same way (something he kept hidden very well). I think the comforting aspect of ritual and quiet and nostalgia of childhood could be nice in this cluster of a year, but attending church when you don’t believe somewhat feels wrong.
Anonymous
It’s not wrong to attend church when you don’t believe. Certainly not an Episcopal church. My ministers have all said that at times they haven’t believed. I personally do but I’m sure many in the pews do not.
All that being said, don’t go to church now! It is dangerous to you and your community. Lots of great Zoom church options. I like to drop in on Trinity Wall St remotely.
OP
Oh no I’d never go to church now! Zoom only these days.
(Episcopal) Churches in my area aren’t even open, but even if they were I would NOT go!
Anonymous
Ok cool!! Ours are closed except for occasional outdoor services.
Anonymous
I am a cradle Episcopalian and feel that I have always been spiritual and somewhat religious, but got out of the habit of churchgoing. I am exploring small groups by zoom at my local church to feel that connection with the community.
Anon
I am Catholic and I believe but most of my strong ties to my religion are due to the emphasis in the theology on service and good acts. Like you I also find the rituals calming and help me reset the stress from other aspects of my life, and a reserved one hour per week session thinking about what it means to be a good person is probably something we all should be doing. I am sometimes torn about my religion, because I find the politics and hierarchy of the church and the horrible abuses that go with it absolutely abominable. I also get very frustrated by the very conservative Catholics who I often feel are subverting the messages we are taught to believe in about love and service and acts of kindness and forgiveness and not judging others into messages of hate and unwelcome for political purposes. So in some ways, I hold on to the religion to keep those people from taking it over – I can’t let them win. At times I’ve considered giving up the ship and becoming Episcopalian but there are a couple theological differences I just can’t get behind that would make me feel like a fraud if I practiced, even if the traditions are the same and the politics of the church are better.
Anonymous
Like what? The communion thing is really a bigger deal than allowing female priests?
Anon
Episcopalian here (raised Episcopalian with an Episcopalian mom but Catholic dad so LOTS of Catholic family and friends) – out of curiosity what are the theological differences?
Anonymous
Most protestant churches welcome everyone, no matter what they do or don’t believe. A huge part of the mission is being open to those who are exploring their faith. Also, a lot of churchgoing people I know call themselves Christians but don’t really buy in to the whole Jesus-died-for-our-sins thing, even though that’s the central principle of Christianity.
If you like the ritual but are put off by the central tenets of the faith, you might enjoy Unitarian Universalist worship.
And, yes, please do not attend indoor church services in person! Many churches are now streaming services on line, and some have socially distanced drive-in services. It’s not the same, but it will have to do for now. Not looking forward to recording virtual choir pieces for Advent, sigh.
Anonymous
I mean basically same. But I don’t think you have to believe in exactly every element of the theology/divinity to attend. I believe in some kind of larger being or spirit that finds its expression in different religions in different cultures around the world. I happen to be Episcopalian but born in a different time/place/family I could as easily happily continue in another religious tradition if it also had progressive values. Attend if it is comforting to you. Don’t if it’s not.
Anon
If you don’t believe that Jesus was divine, then Jesus is actually a terrible role model: lied continuously for years about who He is, died for a lie, and but one of his apostles died gruesome deaths for that lie.
This wasn’t a little white lie or an oopsie. The apostles died horrible deaths -crucifixion, beheading, stoning, spear – for the belief that Jesus is Lord.
You can believe whatever you believe; my issue with non-believers as active members of the congregation is that they eventually try to influence the direction of the church towards heresy. I’m not talking about issues of consubstantation or symbolism, feast days, the assumption of Mary, or any of that – the basic tenet of Christianity is the divinity of Jesus.
Anon
In my experience – belief isn’t a choice. I know a lot of people who want to believe but don’t. Out of curiosity – what are your thoughts on people who want to believe but don’t joining congregations?
Anonie
I agree! Faith can be pursued and sought but, in my opinion, the Bible means it when it says in Ephesians 2:8 that faith “is a gift of God.”
I have always felt grateful and privileged that faith comes easily to me. I have close friends who have sought that feeling of faith for years but haven’t experienced it. I don’t have an easy answer, but I would agree that I didn’t do anything “special” to make myself believe.
I would welcome anyone who wants to attend to any church I am a part of.
cbackson
Not the original responder, but I have no problem with people in that position joining churches. I think of that as different than someone who neither believes nor wishes that they believed.
cbackson
I would also say that, in the United States, our concept of faith is heavily influenced by particular strains of Protestantism in which you’re expected to have an emotional experience of being saved and a personal emotional connection to Jesus. That is by no means universal – faith as an intellectual position rather than a felt emotional truth has a long history in Christianity and is common in non-Protestant cultures.
Anon
I mean, isn’t it possible to believe Jesus was a leader with some good ideas without believing in the turning water into wine or bringing someone back from the dead wizardry?
Anon
I don’t think so? A lot of his ideas are actually terrible ideas if he’s not divine. He came “not to bring peace, but a sword.” The early church figured this out fast (if there is no resurrection from the dead, then Christianity is a bad thing, not a good thing).
Anon
You’re assuming what’s written in the bible is exactly what Jesus said and did and wasn’t changed or exaggerated at all when it was written down decades after he died.
LaurenB
“You can believe whatever you believe; my issue with non-believers as active members of the congregation is that they eventually try to influence the direction of the church towards heresy. I’m not talking about issues of consubstantation or symbolism, feast days, the assumption of Mary, or any of that – the basic tenet of Christianity is the divinity of Jesus.”
How often does this really come up, though? Why can’t non-believers be active members of the congregation, lead the blood drive, help with the children’s carnival, call the elderly who are lonely, and be there for the punch and pie? Sincerely asking.
Anon
Yeah I recently found out that some people I thought were super devout, but turns out they’re not believers but like Jesus. I don’t think that they’re trying to turn their church towards heresy.
Anonymous
Pretty sure that at least 50% of my church fits into this category.
cbackson
So I’m not the original commenter, but I‘ll take a swing at it – ultimately, churches aren’t just societies for the performance of good works. They are communities that are united around a set of common beliefs. In some denominations, that set of common beliefs is wide (i.e., you are expected to buy into a very large set of doctrines) and in others, it’s much narrower (there are essential beliefs, but a lot of stuff is up to your discretion). In virtually all of those communities, however, if they identify as Christian, one of those fundamental common beliefs is Jesus’ divinity. Traditional Christian worship is, well, worship – of a divine being. Maybe it doesn’t come up a lot if you’re just there for coffee hour and other activities, but worship is the core activity of Christian communities and what makes them different from the Lion’s Club.
I’m not in favor of asking someone to pass a test to come in the door – many people quietly hold heterodox beliefs. For example, I believe very firmly in universal salvation, which is currently considered a heresy (although it wasn’t always). I will bring that up when we’re discussing these issues in Sunday School, because I do advocate for my denomination to take a new look at that issue from a theological perspective, and no one has ever tried to kick me out of church. But I have belonged to a Christian community where a set of very active members did outspokenly deny the divinity of Christ – not in the sense of doubt, but in the sense of “I don’t think this is real and am firmly convinced in that belief and am not interested in changing it” and it was pretty destructive to our common life. They ultimately left – of their own volition, but eventually it might not have been of their own volition. It is the most core of Christian beliefs and if you don’t have that in common it’s hard to say why you’re all there.
Anonymous
In many/most protestant churches, the idea is that you invite everyone in and hopefully after a while they’ll experience God’s love and come to believe. There’s a huge difference between wanting to believe even if you aren’t certain, and having zero desire to believe. Even Mother Teresa struggled with belief. And, like it or not, there are a whole lot of church members out there who dutifully recite the Apostles’ Creed, don’t really believe much or all of it, and still consider themselves Christians. Of course you don’t want the community to be co-opted by people who noisily and consistently deny the core tenets of the faith, but that doesn’t mean that OP shouldn’t be welcomed to worship and participate in the life of the church.
cbackson
Yeah, even though I made the long comment above, I should have added that I feel like the intellectual question of “what is the role of nonbelievers in a church community?” is ultimately fairly different than the situation the OP is describing. She feels drawn to church – she should go to church, and see how she feels about being in that setting. Maybe she’ll find that she’s not comfortable being in a worship environment. But maybe she will find that she is a person of faith to some degree, and maybe it will be a home for her. God calls in a lot of ways, I think.
Anon
I would have said that Jesus’s resurrection was the core Christian belief, but I agree with the rest! I think people don’t always understand how little doctrinal conformity is expected from Catholics.
LaurenB
“So I’m not the original commenter, but I‘ll take a swing at it – ultimately, churches aren’t just societies for the performance of good works.”
More’s the pity. I wish they were.
Anon
You can believe that Jesus was a good leader and that at some point in the 2000 years since his death someone rewrote him as a god. You don’t have to believe that the gospels are a literal transcription of what went down.
Anon
Yes, they can be read as literary texts that are part of a greater religious tradition. Religious texts are often literary, really.
Anonymous
I believe, or try to believe depending on the day, in the divinity of Jesus, and I agree that the Bible is a document written by humans that incorporates human agendas. The gospels aren’t a firsthand account of what happened. And don’t even get me started on the epistles.
Anonymous
You must be a Catholic.
Jess
Jesus never said anything about his own divinity that incompatible with the belief he’s actually a human. “Son of God” = we are all children of God & etc. Born without sin = no original sin
Anonie
I am a practicing non-denominational Christian (Zoom church for now) and my experience is that, even for those of us who strongly believe, there are ebbs and flows in faithfulness. For example, I created a virtual Bible study for several months this summer and loved the accountability that group provided, but I have not touched my Bible in at least a month and a half. That’s not a good thing (for me) and this thread is a reminder that I need to carve out time for Scripture this week. Similarly, there are times when I gravitate towards Christian music and pray frequently, and there are times I struggle to concentrate during prayers and would rather listen to secular music or watch Netflix. I think that these ebbs and flows are pretty common for almost all of the practicing Christians I know.
Also, for what it’s worth, I would be thrilled to have someone like you (honestly, anyone) sitting next to me in a pew. I would hope that most of Believers are welcoming and open-minded enough to understand that church is designed for everyone, not just those that have a predisposition towards believing.
Senior Attorney
I heard once that church is “a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints.” Which to me implies that nonbelievers should be the most welcome of all.
Signed, non-believing former church lady
DLC
I am not religious and I attend a Catholic church because my husband is Catholic. (Or rather these days we stream services every Sunday morning…) I originally started going with him when we got engaged because I wanted to see what it was all about for him. Now we have three kids and church is also a family activity for him, so these days I kind of view it as a family obligation. Having said that, though, I do enjoy going – I like having the time to unplug and reflect, I enjoy the music, and I often find the homilies thought provoking. Also his church does a lot of service projects that I like taking part of. We attend a pretty liberal Catholic church (Franciscan, I think?) where the focus is on living a loving, humble, and kind life. Yes, they talk about faith, but in a fairly open and accepting way. There is a nice thing that our church says at the beginning of the service: “We welcome you wherever you are on your spiritual journey.” I guess my take on it is that if you are sincere and honest in your intentions there isn’t anything wrong with attending church to fulfill whatever needs you have.
Anon
As a Catholic since birth, I will note that the church and the “culture” there makes a big difference and varies from parish to parish, sometimes widely. Each time I have moved in my life, it has taken me trying out several churches to find one where the focus is on community, living by the Ten Commandments (which I basically view as human decency), and helping others. I have walked out of a Catholic Church during mass where abortion shaming came up. In the alternative, one of my favorite churches (no longer live in that state) was led by a priest that I heard was criticized as “too liberal” by some of the congregation and I realized that was because he spent most of his sermons talking about inclusion and how to be the best person you could be, forgiving yourself and others, rather than damning anyone or passing judgment. I see nothing wrong with attending a church that fits your values and your belief system, regardless of whether you are “officially” or “formally” that religion.
cbackson
I attend church (Episcopal) weekly, and am a believer. While my politics are quite liberal, my beliefs are pretty orthodox. I believe that Jesus was the son of God and died for our sins (although my theological views on the atonement are complicated); I believe that saints intercede on our behalf in heaven, and that angels are present in this world, and I talk to the Blessed Virgin Mary about my problems on the regular. I believe in miracles and also that Satan can walk around on two legs. I believe that the sacraments have a mystical power and aren’t just symbols. I believe that the Bible is divinely inspired but very, very much not literal and that historical context is vital to reading and understanding it (basically, everything necessary for my salvation can be found in the Bible, but not everything in the Bible is necessary for my salvation).
I believe that my redeemer lives, and will stand at the latter day upon the earth, and though my body may be destroyed, in my flesh I will see God, as a friend and not a stranger.
I’m lucky to be able to be part of a church that allows me to believe all of those things and also to believe that God calls people to service in ordained ministry regardless of their gender identity, and that affirms people of all s*xual orientations and treats their families as equal.
I say that if you feel drawn to church, go to church. Faith is a journey, not a destination, and maybe it’s a journey you’re on right now. If you find it doesn’t feel right, you can always stop going.
Jess
I’m a Unitarian-Universalist, so I don’t have to believe to go to Church. I think churches are a great, multi-generational community for many people. If you want to go to Church without believing you absolutely should.
knee issues
Two knee-related questions. I tore my ACL years ago and had it replaced. Have had knee pain recently (really noticed it with my peloton, which I thought was unfortunate as bike should be good! and I’ve already got it adjusted to be knee friendly) and got an MRI – knee doctor wants to do arthroscopic surgery to go in and clean it up, definitely have a couple meniscus tears but ligaments intact.
First, has anyone had meniscus repair surgery? I know my knee surgeon’s bias will be in favor or surgery, but I’m not loving the idea of an elective surgery (under general anesthesia) ever much less now. But if my knee felt much better after, I’d go for it. We’re also TTC soon, so another reason not to do it – I’ve been doing more knee exercises but honestly knee tends to get sore… It’s totally livable though.
Second question – I’ve noticed my knee hurts quite a bit when I walk around barefoot and feels much better if I wear tennis shoes or birkenstocks. Not quite sure what that means – I thought barefoot was good? Worth talking to a foot person too?
And yes, talking to doctors! Just feeling out of my depth and curious how common these things are and if anyone had anecdotal experience!
Hot Mess
For what it’s worth, DH had recurring knee problems and started foam rolling which did him a world of good. Now no issues biking or running, as long as he keeps up the habit.
Anon
I had meniscus surgery 2 weeks ago. Torn meniscus, cartlage damage, fluid cysts, and a couple other issues. I am/was a runner and ignore the pain until I couldn’t. Pre-op walking hurt, sleeping hurt, everything hurt. It felt really unstable walking and standing. I could cycle and do Pilates but there was some pain. I may have had unrealistic expectations for my recovery and feel like I should be further along by now. My surgeon says I am ahead of schedule, I never used my crutches. I was cycling 4 days after surgery and at Pilates a week after. But I am not pain-free. The pain is different. Mostly with walking (though my surgeon claims I should be able to run ‘soon’) And I still have pain at night, but that is getting better and seems to be related to swelling. Overall, I am glad I did it. If you have actual meniscus repair (sewing the tears as opposed to trimming them out) that recover is longer and more involved.
Anonymous
I had meniscus surgery almost 20 years ago. I had it trimmed. It helped enormously, but the recovery was rough. As I tell everyone, it was worse than recovering from childbirth, which wasn’t exactly a picnic for me. I now have some pain in my knee, but likely because I weigh 20 pounds more than I did back then, and I very much remember the tiny little surgeon telling me that being as lightweight as possible would help. She was right. Sigh.
CoastalSensation
I’ve gone through the ACL replacement (09), then began having sustained acute pain many years later after a burst of heightened activity (’16). Had an MRI; graft was still in tact. There was a bit of scar tissue and very minor meniscus issues but otherwise okay. Ortho was very anti-surgery here, as every surgery introduces more opportunities for scar tissues and a host of other risks. Ortho said what was causing all the pain was patellofemoral syndrome. After much physiotherapy and weeks of pain meds and ice at the time, I’ve been continuing to modify my activities to reduce impact on the joint (no aggressive stair climbing; always wear appropriate footwear and positively NO heels; wear knee brace during activity; use poles when hiking on steep slopes). After a couple years of living and dealing with patello I’m now back to ~80% of post-ACL, pre-patello activity. One of the pain treatments that’s been effective is prescription strength Voltaren gel so perhaps enquire about that.
Job searching stinks
So I had a good interview last Friday but I lost track of everything in a stupidly busy weekend and a busy work week so I didn’t get around to writing thank you notes and now, of course, I haven’t heard from them at all. Is there anything I can do here?
Anonymous
No, but I don’t think it matters that much. I wouldn’t let a lack of a thank you note be determinative when I’m hiring someone. Sure, it’s nice, but not a dealbreaker. Weirder if you reach out now bc it’ll just look like you’re fishing for info.
AFT
100% co sign. Right now you may be someone who doesn’t do thank you notes (not a deal breaker if you’re the preferred candidate), but reaching out now makes it look like you’re someone who intends to do thank you notes but is distracted/not prioritizing this job (understandable but also not the look you want). I vote no notes now, only maybe notes immediately after interview.
Job searching stinks
I normally do thank you notes.It was just a late Friday afternoon interview and they got lost but yeah I know I can’t send them now.
Cat
Eh, you’re fine. In the hierarchy of post-interview thank yous, here is my ranking:
Best
-Thoughtful thank you note within a day or so (specific and ties into the conversation, includes any follow-up you might have discussed, etc)
-No thank you note
-Awkwardly later thank you note — this is where yours would currently fall — better to just not do it
-Rushed thank you note (cursory ‘thanks for your time’ type thing with no follow ups or anything tying back to your conversation)
-Bad thank you note
Worst
Anon
Arg! One of my roles as an independent contractor is to provide support for an educator. I was assigned to this because he had never taught online. Every week, he questions me and assumes lack of knowledge when the platform does not do what he wants. He does not understand that not all features are offered via the company we work for nor that the platform itself may be glitchy. He keeps insisting he should contact tech support because I don’t know how to do something, no matter how many times I explain that tech support will forward the email to me as I know more than they do. Today he asked questions where the answer was “Sir, that’s literally my job.” and “Sir, they would just ask me since I am more trained and qualified in this question than the help desk.” He is senior to me and I don’t want to lose the job, so I asked my supervisor to speak later today. (I didn’t want to put anything in writing that might be bad later.) I am struggling with how to word things so it doesn’t sound like a complaint or become a problem (I have 6 more sessions with this person over the next 2 months). I also want to protect myself in case he complains about me and his perceived lack of knowledge.
How do I word this so I don’t upset the balance with my boss and appear whiny or tattle-taley nor say anything to throw this person under the bus nor escalate this into a bigger problem but where I don’t let myself look incompetent because he doesn’t understand technology?
No Face
My view is that accurately stating the facts is not throwing anyone under the bus, or being whiny. Before the call, I would send an email stating: “Educator wants to use the platform to do X, Y, and Z. I have informed him that the platform does not have these functions, but he can address his concerns using platform features A, B, and C. Today’s call with you will address his desire to do X, Y, and Z.” I would want it writing, personally. Hopefully, your supervisor backs you up.
No Problem
Just say it how you said it here: Every week, he questions me and assumes lack of knowledge when the platform does not do what he wants. He keeps insisting he should contact tech support because I don’t know how to do something, no matter how many times I explain that tech support will forward the email to me as I know more than they do.
Also…sometimes it’s ok to throw someone under the bus if they insist on walking into the intersection after you tell them that there’s a bus coming and they should wait. (translation: sometimes we have to fire clients when they’re too difficult) And maybe you should just let him contact tech support and let that play out exactly how you’ve been telling him it will.
Anonymous
That’s not throwing him under the bus, that’s letting the bus hit him after you’ve repeatedly tried to stop him from running into the street.
Anon
I would also not try to stop him from contacting tech support. If he keeps doing that and they keep forwarding to you, he will learn for himself or not, but that’s for tech support to deal with, not you.
Anon
Is it ok to email my boss and grand boss to let them know my husband is being transferred and we’re moving out of state or do I need to call? Boss is my same age (late 30s) and grandboss is maybe mid-50s. Boss’ family and mine have socialized outside of the office.
The company announced early on that we’re 100% remote until next June and that it’s open to permanent remote work post-corona. (My boss has said he never wants to return to the office when this is over and I’ve said the same in our convos!) I’ve been here 3 years with good reviews. We’re being transferred along the Acela line, so it’ll be easy to get back to the office for occasional visits.
I’m thinking of this email,
“Hi Boss, Grandboss,
DH got a promotion at work, which we expected, but it comes with a move to (place), which we did not! We thought we’d be able to stay here.
We’re scheduled to move in May, though things are still in flux a bit, so the timing might shift. (Place) is right off the Acela line for easy access to the office when the world gets back to normal.
Would you be amenable to my permanently working remotely with as-needed trips back to the office? I would of course come for (routine important events at company). I love (company) and do not want to leave! I’d be grateful for your flexibility and consideration.
Name”
Anonymous
Girl. You know you need to be a grown up and call. Come on.
Anon
Rude. Also, this is a know your office and the people thing. You may want it in writing and if your company does most things via email rather than calls, I would say writing an email is fine, maybe ending with offering to have a call to discuss if they’d like.
Anon
+1 email seems better to me for this reason.
Anon
This definitely calls for a phone call, but follow up with an email to put it in writing
Airplane.
I mean, I agree with 10:58. This is a big life change and your boss’s family has socialized with yours! Give your boss the opportunity to congratulate DH, ask polite questions about the move and generally be happy for you. This is an opportunity for some personal “this is me and my life” behind my work persona.
You can follow up with an email if your boss needs it in writing. Don’t use “HR needs it in writing” as a way to get out of a call.
Anonymous
But is that even true anymore in 2020? Society does everything over email. OP’s email succinctly answers any questions they’d have.
Anon
Yes, it is true that you still have to wear your big girl pants and call people on the phone in 2020. This isn’t something that’s difficult.
Anon
You’re borrowing trouble. I think this is a question for March/April you. By then you’ll have proven a year or more of responsible WFH and be in a good position to say “hey, my husband has been offered a position in another city and so we are moving since we’ve been WFH for a year and the company is open to that permanently for employees, is that something I can pursue…etc.” HR would need to know from an administrative standpoint, don’t tell them before your boss.
But anyways, call your boss, you don’t need to talk to your grandboss about it, your boss will approach him if they need his permission (unless that’s the way your company works).
Anon
Yeah, I would call. I’d find it super weird to have this dropped on me in an email from an employee, ESPECIALLY given the good relationship you say you have with these people. Now, if you called me, I’d be like whatever, congrats to your husband and sounds great on the work arrangements.
Anonymous
Yup. It’s so rude to email this as though it’s just casual normal news. Them permitting you to keep this job while moving is a courtesy and favor you are asking for! They could say no! Call boss and have a personal conversation.
Anon
+1 It would be SO weird if this happened by email in my office.
NYCer
+2. I would 100% call.
bluebonnet
Could you maybe end the email by asking/offering to have a call with them at their convenience to discuss the possibilities?
Anon
+1 this is what I would do
anonyK
This is also what I would do. Rather than get into detail of permanent telework, say something like “I love my job and I’d like to stay on here despite the upcoming move. Can we schedule a meeting to discuss the options?”
I think email is good for documenting, and also lets your boss/es discuss and do some research about what the options are, so you can have a productive meeting about it.
Anon
I think that this is definitely a phone call at least.
Anonymous
Please call your boss. And don’t perpetuate the BS of “we are young so email is appropriate.” No, it is not, young people just use this as a way to avoid difficult conversations and developing appropriate interpersonal skills.
Anon
+1
Anon
Yes you absolutely need to call. It is not obvious that this would be permitted even at a company that is 100% remote forever — it may have implications for taxes, professional licensing, or changing salaries if the cost of living is way lower.
Your boss may also be a bit peeved that your family has already decided to accept your husbands promotion without even checking whether you could keep your current job – that’s easier to message over the phone than by email.
Fullyfunctional
Do not ask permission. Make a recommendation instead. “Here’s what’s happening, here’s how I propose to manage it, here are the many advantages to you.”
Anon
I love quotes and am looking for a few new ones for this crazy period of life.
Are there any quotes that have spoken to you this year?
Kate
Perfect is the enemy of done. (or “Done is better than perfect”)
“there’s no place like home”
Anon
I have “It doesn’t have to be perfect, it just has to exist” on a sticky note on my computer. Right next to the sticky note that says “Just send the damn email!” :)
Vicky Austin
“There are years that ask questions, and years that answer.” Zora Neale Hurston. I haven’t decided which one I think 2020 is, but it’s oddly comforting.
Vicky Austin
Oh and also. “Planting onions that spring was an act of faith in the future, for I was very fearful for our planet.” – Madeleine L’Engle in the thick of the Cold War. Obviously I like L’Engle, but I was thinking about this one a lot when we planted our garden this spring.
OP
As much as I disliked Their Eyes Were Watching God the two times I had to read it for school (once in high school, once in college), I did always love this quote.
This year is definitely a year that asks questions for me.
There’s something so comforting about old books – I just requested The Chronicles of Narnia from the library, and there are definitely some good quotes there too. I read those stories as a kid, but also in a high school religion class which was a very cool move by our teacher.
Anon
“The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is today.”
“Don’t suffer twice.” (re: anxiety, imagining your family dying, things like that).
anonymous
“I can’t see a way through,” said the boy. “Can you see your next step?” “Yes.” “Take that,” said the horse.
Anonymous
LOVE this!
Anon
I recently watched Jojo Rabbit and the quote at the end really struck me and I think about it often now.
Let everything happen to you
Beauty and terror
Just keep going
No feeling is final
OP
There are so many good quotes in that movie! I love the one about dancing showing god we are happy to be alive.
Anon
“That’s the secret. If you always make sure you’re exactly the person you hoped to be, if you always make sure you know only the very best people, then you won’t care if you die tomorrow.” – Tell the Wolves I’m Home
PS – I love this thread! Some really good quotes here that I’ve never heard.
Anonymous
“I thought I was just having a rough patch, but it turns out this is my life”
Senior Attorney
Ha! Right?
That is similar to what I used to tell myself when I was a young mother. I kept waiting for things to get back to normal after the baby came, and then it hit me:
“There is no normal.”
anon
It’s not “lean in” or “lean out,” but rather “lean ON.” I heard this on a podcast recently and it really resonated me (don’t remember which one, however. Feminist Survival Podcast, maybe? Or Brene Brown?…)
Anonymous
Here’s the entire quote for context, but I reflect on the part from “There isn’t anyone anywhere….”
“I don’t care where an actor acts. It can be in summer stock, it can be over a radio, it can be over television, it can be in a goddam Broadway theatre, complete with the most fashionable, most well-fed, most sunburned-looking audience you can imagine. But I’ll tell you a terrible secret — Are you listening to me? There isn’t anyone out there who isn’t Seymour’s Fat Lady. That includes your Professor Tupper, buddy. And all his goddam cousins by the dozens. There isn’t anyone anywhere that isn’t Seymour’s Fat Lady. Don’t you know that? Don’t you know that goddam secret yet? And don’t you know — listen to me, now — don’t you know who that Fat Lady really is? . . . Ah, buddy. Ah, buddy. It’s Christ Himself. Christ Himself, buddy.” J.D. Salinger.
Vicky Austin
Ooh, this reminds me of my favorite part of e. e. cummings’ The Enormous Room.
“And God says: Why did they put you in prison? What did you do to the people? ‘I made them dance and they put me in prison.’ … And He says: O you who put the jerk into joys, come up hither. There’s a man up here called Christ who likes the violin.”
LaurenB
I hate to be stupid here, but I totally don’t understand the Seymour’s Fat Lady or what that quote is supposed to mean.
Anon
Same! I am a little confused
Anonymous
I … don’t know why you always criticize other people when you don’t understand something in their original post rather than just asking what they mean. At least you aren’t calling them weird an unusual here as you often do. But do you want to know what it means? Why don’t you ask. Or do you just want to announce that it is inscrutable?
LaurenB
Hey Anonymous at 2:46? I didn’t criticize other people. I didn’t announce it was inscrutable; I said I didn’t understand the reference, with the implied ask that it would be great if it were explained, which someone graciously did.
Pipe down
Anon at 2:46, I was confused by the quote too, and appreciated LaurenB’s comment as the implied ask that it was. I read no snark or criticism at all in her post – just in yours. Maybe you’re projecting? It’s kinda weird that you hijacked this post to talk about her and what she “always” does that you don’t like.
Anon
I think your criticism is misplaced.
Ymanon
The quote is from Franny & Zooey, almost at the very end. I love this book about neurotic siblings in a slightly over the top intellectual (precociously so) family.
Wikipedia sums up this quote as “Zooey shares with her [Franny] some words of wisdom that Seymour once gave him, suggesting that one should live with optimism and love because, even if nobody else does, Jesus notices.” (Franny had been complaining that the audience at her radio show performance wasn’t worth shining her shoes for, since they were morons – but older brother Seymour said to shine them for the [imaginary] “Fat Lady” in the audience.)
LaurenB
Thank you for the explanation.
anon
Thinking a lot about “may you live in interesting times” this year
anon
I first heart this CS Lewis quote in a yoga class maybe 4 years ago and promptly started crying because it resonated so much. I think of it a lot and find it very comforting (and I’m not religious at all).
“Imagine yourself as a living house. God comes in to rebuild that house. At first, perhaps, you can understand what He is doing. He is getting the drains right and stopping the leaks in the roof and so on; you knew that those jobs needed doing and so you are not surprised. But presently He starts knocking the house about in a way that hurts abominably and does not seem to make any sense. What on earth is He up to? The explanation is that He is building quite a different house from the one you thought of – throwing out a new wing here, putting on an extra floor there, running up towers, making courtyards. You thought you were being made into a decent little cottage: but He is building a palace. He intends to come and live in it Himself.”
DLC
This year, I’ve really loved “Andra tutto bene.” Which is Italian for Everything will be ok. Apparently in Italy during locklown, people would make signs with this on it and display it on their windows. It’s such a simple statement, but something about it being in Italian makes it feel even more universal for me.
JHC
“And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, ‘If this isn’t nice, I don’t know what is.” Kurt Vonnegut
Another anon
“Believe that a further shore is reachable from here”
Seamus Heaney, The Cure at Troy
Read the whole poem!
Anon
Very high risk category, haven’t gone to more than the grocery and drug stores since March 6. I am on the same tank of gas I had March 6. My city recently reopened completely so now everything is delivered and I haven’t left the house in about a month. I am finding myself so angry lately at everyone. I logically know that not everyone can lock down to this extent and people are choosing the risk they take. However, I feel so angry that others’ level of acceptable risk also means they are risking others.
Yes, I am the person who did all the group projects alone. Yes, I am the person who is the planner of my friends. Those traits are true. Those situations are either annoying or just my reality though, requiring nothing more than a snack or a laugh to get over. This isn’t that. How do I not feel so angry about the very real reality that every “I need a vacation” and “I’m going to travel because flights are cheap now” and “I was sick of being cooped up” and “plandemic” and “they keep moving the goal posts” means a very real threat to my health and that much longer we are all in this situation? (It isn’t about the staying inside itself, it’s about watching everyone continue to decide that their desire for fun or their conspiracy theory is worth more than my life and more than so many others’ lives.)
Anon
Right there with you. High-risk, haven’t done jack sh*t with other people since March, really freaking tired of people who don’t give a f*ck, and then also very tired of people who accuse us of wanting to “pandemic better than anyone” or of being “driven by anxiety.” If that’s going to be your response to my post, save it. I’ve heard enough of that garbage already and it just reveals your insane privilege.
FormerlyPhilly
I’m with you. I redirect my focus to the things I have within my control. I redirect my focus on how lucky I am to be able to hunker down and wait this out (others cannot – essential workers, etc.) — it’s a waiting game (for therapeutics, a unicorn vaccine, standard of care). Also, CBT, exercise, nutrition.
Anonymous
My risk is elevated but not as high as yours. I feel the same way. I am so sick of hearing “I have been making sacrifices for months so I deserve to have a big family holiday gathering.” And “they keep moving the goalposts.” The reason they keep moving the goalposts is that they were not set in the right place to begin with.
I wish people would stop pinning their hopes on a magic vaccine. Guess what, people? The vaccine won’t be any more effective than the annual flu vaccine, and possibly less effective. It won’t be available to everyone right away. It will not lead to herd immunity and the virus’s eradication. It may very well be harmful, and it won’t be tested thoroughly enough to know for sure. Vaccination is just one element of a comprehensive strategy to make life safer, and no one is thinking through the rest of the long-term strategy.
Listen to Fauci, people. Stay home with your household for Thanksgiving.
Anon
Re: moving the goalposts, it’s also “this is how science works.” Things change as we learn more. Yes, the initial response was bungled because Trump sucks, but that can’t be a surprise now.
Anonymous
So you think we will all just stay home for years? Insane.
Anon
It’s very high risk people who may have to stay at home for years as a matter of life and death because other people couldn’t be bothered to wear masks. Yes, that’s insane.
AnonPara
+1
Anonymous
I am not staying home for years to protect you. And I have no problem saying that. Do you want to give me half of your income because I need it? How about your kidney? I am really sick and you could never understand how sick I am and I think you are completely selfish for wanting to keep your kidney, when I really need it. You can function with only one. It is unfortunate to be high risk for Covid. But it is also unfortunate to be poor or in need of a kidney. However, those people don’t constantly prance around, asking the rest of the world to make unacceptable sacrifices to help them. I wear a mask, always, and I do limit my time in stores. But, I am still going to stores, and I will eat outside at restaurants, and visit with friends and family outside. I am making the right choices for me, to balance the illness with my mental health. I can not possibly be expected to put my mental health into a dangerous territory simply because you are high risk for Covid. Just like you can’t be expected to give up your kidney for the person who is next on the list who really needs it. There is a limit to how much any one person can or will do to help a random stranger. If there wasn’t, we would all give up half our income and one of our kidneys for those in need.
Anon
If you’re wearing a mask, then I’m not explicitly not talking about you. Why did you think I was?
Anonymous
No, I think we need to come up with workable strategies that don’t involve staying home, such as adequate ventilation in schools. We are not looking at any of those strategies and instead waiting for the magic vaccine.
Anon
+1
Anonymous
There’s a huge spectrum between “staying home” and “living like the pandemic isn’t happening.” When I see my neighbors posting pictures from the inside sushi hibatchi restaurant family party I get twitchy. You don’t need to go to restaurants or to go shopping in the vast majority of stores. You don’t need to go to the gym. Offices don’t need people in the office the majority of time.
Anon
Sadly, what I think will happen is the disabled amongst us will be pushed to the fringes. The country will decide they don’t want to stay shut down / harm the economy any longer. Provisions will be made so high risk people can get groceries delivered and work from home. The rest of the country will then take their chances and cases are going to skyrocket. At least that’s what I see all over the news comments in my purple state. Every time my governor shuts something down, the masses swell up yelling at him to just open the state in full, let the virus run its course, and those at the highest risk “hide” at home.
It’s so disheartening.
Anon
+1. I never REALLY knew just how little people care for the disabled until now.
Anonymous
+1 people are making it abundantly clear they don’t care about their at risk neighbours, and community is a hollow term if it comes with any collective responsibility
Anonymous
Disabled people have ALREADY been at the fringes for decades. Welcome to the club.
Anonymous
Yes, the Trump administration is apparently adopting herd immunity as its policy.
Anon
Fauci is saying everyone who wants the vaccine will have it by April and then we’ll go back to normal. I don’t agree with him, fwiw. But ”listen to Fauci” is a big part of how we got into this mess. He’s the one who originally gave us the 12-18 month timeline to vaccine and normalcy. Yes, his advice about not gathering at Thanksgiving is sound, but his vaccine statements are why the goal posts appear to always be moving.
Anonymous
I believe Fauci said at least 12-18 months for a vaccine. Many experts thought that was wildly optimistic, but it looks like (knock wood), we will have a vaccine within that time frame. Which is literally record-breaking. And 18 months from March is about when we should be “back to normal,” so I give Fauci a TON of credit. But Fauci (and experts) do not say that a vaccine won’t be adequately tested, and it’s fear-mongering to suggest that it won’t be. Could some vaccine makers skip steps? Yes, but the evidence will be in plain view if they do, and I trust most experts to be clear on that. The idea that a vaccine or other treatments won’t be enormously helpful so f it, let’s just go on with our lives is why the U.S. is doing so terribly with this virus. We have no backbone anymore. Suck it up and act responsibly for a year. It will not kill you.
Anon
There’s no way we will be back to normal by fall 2021. No way.
Anon
Do you think anyone would have complied if the govt said we are staying home for two years? Isn’t it easier to say, let’s check again in 2 months?
Anonymous
It’s … actually not easier to be lied to and faced with crushing disappointment ever two weeks. That may be why so many people have cracked vs girded their loins and marched through.
The Original ...
He as said maybe 3rd quarter 2021 based on the science that is still evolving. Also, he gave an estimate based on what was known at the time both about science and about the expectations of human decency and national solidarity. No one thought this would become political and people would not wear masks and governors would not mandate closures long enough and there would be no federal clarity or consistency. People’s behavior lengthened the timeline so the timeline changed. It doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be listened to, it means that this is what happens when people act this way.
Anonymous
The hurdles for efficacy are also not great. They’re looking for a vaccine that works 50% of the time (with a confidence interval lower bound at 30%!). This is helpful population-wide, but not helpful enough if you are super high risk.
LaurenB
What you’re not hearing is that parts of the country indeed locked down as they were meant to, while other parts of the country just partied on like nothing was happening. It’s not Fauci’s fault that red-state governors ignored direction to mask. It’s not Fauci’s fault that the American population decided they cared more about college football and bars opening, than closing those things to keep the infection rates down so that we could send the kids back to school.
LaurenB
It’s almost like you don’t seem to understand Fauci — who has more knowledge about infectious disease in his big toe than all of us on this board do combined — doesn’t have a crystal ball on whether the various vaccine approaches are going to work or not. He is not “part of this mess.” He gave info about masks in early March when it was clear they needed to be reserved for medical professionals; he walked that back very quickly and has been steadfast on masks, social distancing, etc. from the get-go. It’s not his fault that this pandemic happened on the watch of one of the most anti-science and obstinate people in the book.
My spouse in the medical field gets frequent reports on how the various vaccines are going in testing. Again, this is highly complicated and evolving in the moment. All anyone can do is best-guess.
Anon
I’m not blaming Fauci for not having a crystal ball and I’m certainly not blaming him for people refusing to wear masks. I’m just saying that he shouldn’t have been so definitive about the vaccine timeline precisely because, as you said, it is changing all the time, dependent on factors not in people’s control and no one, not even the experts, really knows if or when an effective vaccine will be available. That is why statements like “We will have a vaccine in 12-18 months” and “we will have 700 million doses of a vaccine in April” (both direct Fauci quotes) are both wildly inappropriate statements. When you say “we will have X in Y month” and then you don’t, people – not unreasonably – in my view, feel they’ve been misled.
I’m not and never have suggested I know more about infectious diseases than Fauci. I’m saying I know more about PR/communications, and I do – it’s my job.
Anonymous
What is high risk? I’d like to pull this info to determine what I really am. I *think* I am low risk, but that may be a bit of wishful thinking.
[My kids have been remote schooling and now that they are going back next month I can put them into fully remote learning for the rest of the school year or let them go back. If I am actually moderate risk, I may need to do some thinking, especially as my parents may be higher risk due to age but not, I think, due to any other conditions.]
Anonymous
Genuine question, how does other people deciding to do things impact you since you can choose to lockdown yourself? Other countries with strict lockdowns didn’t eradicate the disease, it looks like it won’t end until there’s a vaccine and even then it’s likely to be with us. How is it realistic to ask all of society to never leave their homes? I’m very sorry you’re highly at risk, but I think it might help your mental state to not rage at people who aren’t and to be grateful that you’re able to lockdown and stay inside since that addresses your concerns.
Anon
Straw man. No one is asking people to “never leave their homes.” We’re specifically complaining about the millions of people (which you can see for yourself in the news, on social media, or out in the world) who are acting like there’s no pandemic. Your response is rude and unhelpful – you don’t need to tell me to “be grateful” I can stay inside 100% of the time so you can gallivant around and live your best life. Do your part to help those less fortunate.
Anonymous
Her question was “how do I be less angry” not “please agree with my rage and indignation.”
Anon
Ha! But that’s how this hive works. Anyone without the same opinions on quarantining, having kids (especially through IVF), etc. will be flamed to death.
Anon
Sorry, OP, but Anon at 10:53 isn’t posing a strawman and you’re just coming off as bitter and unreasonable. Let’s say everyone was masking, distancing, following guidelines. Because you are high risk, you still wouldn’t be going out and living your best life–what activities would you be comfortable doing in that situation that you aren’t comfortable doing now? Also, location matters–in some areas the populace is acting a lot more cavalierly than others. And sounds like your leaders are being more cavalier about the risk than in other places (NY springs to mind). People are going to do what the leaders tell them they can, so your rage should really be directed at your electeds.
This sucks, I know, but I agree that your wallowing may be compounding the suckiness here.
Anon
No, people aren’t “going to do what the leaders tell them they can.” In my state, which has great leadership (for the most part), average people at my office and in my orbit have done all kinds of things that the leaders specifically, clearly advised them not to do. That’s what’s so frustrating. It’s not an unclear message, a lack of clarification, shifting goalposts – people read the regulations and do. the opposite. thing. It’s maddening.
Anon
I agree with this. “We make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong, the amount of work is the same.” OP, what could you accomplish or do if you re-channeled the energy you’re expending on being angry about a situation you can’t control to something else? If the thought is “my life sucks because of other people’s choices” – ask yourself, who would I be without that thought? What if that thought is not true? And if I can accept that that thought is untrue, how does that change things for me?
I am empathetic to high-risk people who are caught in this mess. I am less empathetic to the people who have decided that being angry and lashing out at strangers on the Internet is an acceptable way to handle their stress, and refuse to put in any emotional work to figure out a coping mechanism that isn’t centered on feeding and fomenting their own rage. As an example in my own life, I felt less angry and hopeless about our current political situation when I stopped using my energy to post angry comments on the Internet and rant to my friends and actually started DOING.SOMETHING. about what was making me angry. Volunteering, donating, etc.
You can be as angry as you want to be, forever and ever. You can hate everyone and everything around you and want to burn the world down. At the end of the day, how is that serving you? Are you a better person, a happier person, a more productive person, a kinder person, because you sit in your house stewing and feeding your rage? I’m guessing the answer’s no. And if the answer’s no – the action is, find something else to do with your energy.
Anon
Anon at 11:55, I’m on this thread and I’m high-risk and I’m angry. I’m allowed to be angry at people who put all of us at risk. I’m allowed to feel my feelings. Guess what? I’m also volunteering for the election, connecting with friends and family over Zoom and with regular phone calls, I established new charitable contributions that I’m proud to be able to do at this point in my life, I’ve been there for friends who are going through hard times this year.
It’s really reductive to say that because we are angry about one specific thing that we are “wallowing” and basically wrecking our lives. Instead of policing our anger, why don’t you consider what you can do to help? Can you talk to family and friends who aren’t being very safe? Can you cancel your multi-household Thanksgiving? Can you write to your elected officials?
Anon
Anon at 12:05:
“It’s really reductive to say that because we are angry about one specific thing that we are “wallowing” and basically wrecking our lives. Instead of policing our anger, why don’t you consider what you can do to help? Can you talk to family and friends who aren’t being very safe? Can you cancel your multi-household Thanksgiving? Can you write to your elected officials?”
Honest, straight up question: why should I help people who steadfastly and obnoxiously refuse to help themselves? I doubt one in 50 of the people who complain and complain and complain on this board about other people’s actions are doing any of that kind of advocacy themselves. What a waste of my time and energy that would be, to do anything you listed on your behalf. You, and the people like you who believe you are the world’s most tragic victims of the world’s most basest injustices (because apparently you don’t know about what’s happening in Syria, Yemen or the Sudan) don’t get to try to enlist people into a “cause” we don’t believe actually exists. Because I do not believe educated, employed white women without children who are making over $40,000 a year who have healthcare and access to the Internet have it all that badly compared to 99% of people in the world. You, and the OP, are CHOOSING to be miserable. You are CHOOSING to be a victim. You are CHOOSING your own “less-than” life. Not because you can’t go outside “safely” but because you are trapped in a prison of your own thoughts. You believe things are terrible for you and that the world is against you, and so then, surprise surprise, you are miserable and feel terrible. I absolutely do not in any way have any obligation to take an advocacy position for people who are not victims of circumstance but are victims of their own deficient mindset. You can certainly feel free to continue “feeling your feelings.” You can feel your feelings all the way into lonely old age and your sad lonely death. Or you could choose something different for yourself. I have a feeling, though, that being angry and blaming other people for your situation is so emotionally satisfying for you that you will never stop doing it voluntarily. And so I am sorry for you. I’ll say a prayer for you tonight but I’ll save my actions and dollars for people who actually have real problems.
Anon
Just…wow. The lack of compassion, the cruelty, the casual ableism, the faux-prayers, all of it. Please rethink your entire life. It’s all wrong.
Anon
Being hurt by the hurtful disregard of others and angry at incompetence and injustice =/= being miserable.
Anon
“Just…wow. The lack of compassion, the cruelty, the casual ableism, the faux-prayers, all of it. Please rethink your entire life. It’s all wrong.”
Nope. You recognize your own poor choices when they’re pointed out to you; that’s why you react so emotionally to the statements. Telling someone something like this also lacks empathy, but you are so mentally and emotionally stuck I don’t expect you to recognize that. I will continue to feel sorry for you, and also hope that one day you will have an epiphany or awakening that will lead you out of the dark place you’re in.
Anon
But aren’t both of these positions strawmen? There aren’t just the people who are 100% in lockdown and the ones who are “living their best lives” and “gallivanting around”. There are people who need to be out for their work. There are people with serious mental health struggles exacerbated by isolation. There are people with children going insane cooped up in small apartments. There are lots of people who are being cautious but still do certain things – socially distanced walks outside and whatnot. I have been extremely cautious but will likely travel overseas for the holidays (with appropriate quarantines and testing on both ends) because my grandmother is dying and she wants to spend the holidays with her grandchildren before she dies (if she makes it until then). I don’t know a single person who is gallivanting around without a care in the world. I’m sorry you are going through this, but I don’t see how rage is productive here. Compassion works in all directions.
Abby
I just want to say, I’m sorry about your grandmother and hope you’re able to have a wonderful holiday season with her & your family. And I agree with your comment 100%. There are people on both ends of the spectrum of risk, yes. But majority of people are wearing masks, doing the best they can. This virus wouldn’t disappear if we all did a strict quarantine for 2 weeks because there are too many essential workers not able to do so.
Anon
Now I’m just feeling jealous of people who live somewhere where the majority of people wear masks and where no one is just gallivanting around!
Anon
No one is choosing to be high risk. No one is choosing to lock down. We are choosing our lives, which means we must lock down. Others are choosing activities that spread the virus which means the rest of us are forced to lock down longer in order to stay alive. Decisions to throw parties because someone “needs a break” or to travel because flights are cheap ARE spreading this. Decisions to go to stores without masks and states without mandates means stores are not safe for us. Which means longer lockdown. It means it is not safe for us to buy groceries because someone “but my freedom” decides that their freedom to not put on a mask is worth more than my ability to both shop and stay alive. No one is saying never to leave home. We are saying that not treating this as a societal problem and a health problem is causing some of us to deal with this differently than those who just don’t like the inconvenience of a mask or not taking an annual beach vacation with their 45 besties.
Anon
Speaking for myself, I can’t actually lockdown completely because of my health needs. My doctor and I had a conversation just yesterday about the risks and benefits of going ahead with the labs that monitor my condition, given that the lab my insurance covers shares a waiting room with a primary care physician. Since the percent positive rate is terrible here, I was advised to continue to postpone.
I know someone high risk who tested positive for COVID19 when her only outings and her only potential contacts were seeing doctors and receiving medical care. She ended up in the ICU.
LaurenB
“Genuine question, how does other people deciding to do things impact you since you can choose to lockdown yourself?”
This is about two yards away from “Genuine question, why do you care if I decide not to vaccinate my own kids [in general, not COVID-related]; how does it impact you since you can choose to vaccinate your own kids?” Is that a logical point of view?
Anon
“Why do you care if I drive drunk since you can choose to stay home? Why do you care if I smoke in the office because you can go to another area? Why do you care if my kid comes to daycare with measles when you can keep your kid home?”
Anonymous
Stop watching. You don’t need to engage with this. And if you’re so high risk you’d be quarantining anyway. If you want to leave your house, do it. Go for a walk outside. Fill your tank, load up your groceries, and go stay in an AirBnB in the woods. You’ll be less bitter if you stop judging everyone else and try to make your circumstances better.
Anon
Yep, found the privileged jerk who wants to tell high-risk people that it’s all in their head and they’re just bitter and that’s the real problem. Didn’t take you long!
Anonx2
yeah, OP, you’re bitter. I think there’s a consensus here.
Anon
It was my comment and I’m not OP. It doesn’t bother me if you call me bitter though.
Anon
It’s so weird that you think every comment on this thread is from OP…
Anonymous
She asked god to stop being angry!! Jeeze Louise.
Anon
“And if you’re so high risk you’d be quarantining anyway.”
This is not even remotely true. This virus has a ~10% chance of killing my 70-something parents. No other infectious disease spreading in the US is anywhere near that deadly for them, and in normal times they could safely travel and see my family. This narrative that high risk people are all super immunocompromised and would die from the common cold/flu anyway is total BS. That may be true for some people, but not the vast majority who are high risk from Covid.
Anon
That’s not the argument, OP. The argument is even if people were taking FEWER risks (i.e. wearing masks, not having parties, not traveling), you’d still quarantine based on your risk from this virus. You have bad luck by being high risk, and if you are sufficiently high risk, major precautions taken by others wouldn’t change your situation much.
Anon
I’m not the OP and I’m not high risk myself. However I would really like to see my 70-something parents again at some point before they die of other causes, and the reason I can’t see them is because other people are selfishly choosing to flout public health guidelines and engage in risky behavior. I don’t need or expect the virus to be fully eradicated – if the pandemic were well-controlled like it is in many other countries, I could safely see my family.
Anonymous
Yes this.
Anon
Huh? Of course precautions taken by others affect even the high risk. “High risk” means high risk of severe illness or death IF you get the virus. If the pandemic is controlled, the high risk people wouldn’t have to continue isolating because the odds of getting the virus would be so much lower. That’s… the entire point.
Anonymous
Not the OP but I’ve been self-isolating since March and assure you I would not be if I lived in Canada or Taiwan or South Korea or New Zealand or any other country that actually controlled this (and if I lived in Europe I’d be back in isolation now for the second wave, but at least I would have had a break from the isolation this summer). You really don’t understand why someone would be more concerned about a 1/100 chance of contracting a deadly disease than a 1/100,000 chance? Numbers are not exact of course, but the point stands that the reckless behavior of Americans has made it much more likely we’ll catch it.
LaurenB
You keep saying “major precautions taken by others wouldn’t change your situation much,” which says that you are not understanding the high contagion of this particular ailment. Helen High-Risk may be isolating at home, but does have to step out occasionally for groceries, doctor visits, etc. — and the underlying community rate (and hence her risk if she does leave her home) is going to be VERY different in a community where people are masking, social distancing, and not gathering in groups, versus a community where everyone is acting as though there is no pandemic, party-on dude. It is frustrating that you seem not to understand this, as it’s been made very clear since April.
Anon
Stop watching what? We can’t not see the maskless people because being anywhere near them could kill us. We can’t not see the images on every news channel, commercials, in this group, etc. of people who think they earned a vacation or a large wedding by being cautious so far, as if this is a test of will rather than a health pandemic. We cannot fill the tank or load up groceries because going to those places around people without masks and safety could kill us. We cannot go to an AirBnB (a privileged recommendation, btw) because going into a place where others may be or have recently been could kill us.
We’d love to be “less bitter.” We’d also love to live in a country where people’s entitlement to not be inconvenienced isn’t prioritized above others’ desire to, ya know, not die. Silly us for judging people who care more about their desire for a manicure or to show off their new lipstick than they do about the lives of others.
Anon
“We’d love to be “less bitter.” We’d also love to live in a country where people’s entitlement to not be inconvenienced isn’t prioritized above others’ desire to, ya know, not die.”
People are just defensive because they know their activities are selfish. The people who are still being conscientious, if not fully locked down, aren’t coming here and going on the attack. It’s the people who know they haven’t done a damn thing to prevent spread and they don’t like getting called out.
Anonymous
She. Asked. How. To. Be. Less. Angry. Not. More. Angry.
Anon
Look, I follow all the protocols (masks, extremely limited outings, perpetual WFH, no kids in daycare/school, only socialization is outdoors, masked, and distanced and that’s maybe 1-2 x a month). Yet I found this post and comments to be really bitter. I’ve done my part to prevent spread and I don’t feel personally attacked. We’ve skipped weddings, funerals, and now we’ll be skipping the holidays. But I cannot take ONE MORE bitter thread of the suffering olympics here. It sucks. I know this sucks. I am doing all I can. but for the love of God, all the complaining is not helping. Those who are having hundreds of people weddings are probably not on this board. Go call out those MFrs on Facebook if you like. But stop complaining to the choir here. Here’s your gold star.
Anon
“But I cannot take ONE MORE bitter thread of the suffering olympics here. It sucks. I know this sucks. I am doing all I can. but for the love of God, all the complaining is not helping. Those who are having hundreds of people weddings are probably not on this board. Go call out those MFrs on Facebook if you like. But stop complaining to the choir here. Here’s your gold star.”
Every bit of this. Every bit of it.
The bottomless level of self-pity here, that feeds into all the nitpicking and attacking, is what’s really getting tedious and tiresome.
Anonymous
A lot of the self-pity and complaining is coming from the people who aren’t taking precautions. “Woe is me! People are judging me for having a 25-person family Thanksgiving get-together and taking a vacation!”
Anonymous
Feel free to continue to be as angry and bitter as you want! The OP literally asked for advice on how not to be, and stop engaging with social media and reading here is reasonable advice for that question.
Anon
Please don’t take this the wrong way. I’m genuinely curious. It seems that so many people on this board claim to be high risk. What are you considering high risk? Like I’m over weight and have hypothyroid (controlled by meds) but I haven’t been considering myself as high risk, and have been seeing others outside, send my toddler to daycare, see my parents weekly, and generally socialize with friends and their kids. I’m early 30s and active. To me, high risk is someone with cancer or someone older than 75ish. My parents in their 60s without major health issues don’t have a problem seeing my daycare kid. But maybe my definition is too narrow and I should be more locked down.
Anon
Why don’t you check out the CDC’s webpage and educate yourself? It’s right there.
Anon
Technically you are high risk according to CDC if you have an autoimmune disease. But I also have a thyroid one (Graves) and my endo said there’s no evidence we’re at higher risk than the general public. My kid is also in daycare.
However, we don’t see my parents. My parents are 68 and 70 and have a couple underlying health conditions, and based on the stats I’ve looked at their odds of dying from the virus are probably somewhere between 5 and 10%. That feels way too high to me to see them without quarantining first, although I guess we’ll have to reassess if the pandemic doesn’t improve in the next couple of years because even in a world without Covid, they won’t live forever. Age (and to a lesser degree sex and race) are much stronger predictors of mortality than health conditions.
AnonPara
I have Graves’s too and am on methimazole, which can cause agranulocytosis. My endo told me to stay away from people as much as possible. I may be on this medication for years. Although people with autoimmune disease are not at higher risk at geting the virus, we ARE at higher risk for developing the cytokine storm that seems to be what many people are dying from due to their immune systems going into major overdrive.
Anon
Do you have evidence for this statement? I’m on (low dose) methimazole too, and this is not what my endo said, not what the American Thyroid Association says (“Thus far, there is no indication that patients with autoimmune thyroid disease are at greater risk of getting COVID-19 or of being more severely affected should they acquire the COVID-19 infection.”) and not what any of the studies I’ve read say.
Agranulocytosis is sort of a “freak” methimazole complication and almost always happens when you’re starting it at a relatively high dose. If you’ve been on it for a few months, and especially if you’ve reduced your dosage since starting treatment, it’s vanishingly unlikely. Methimazole is very targeted towards the thyroid, it is NOT a general immune system suppressant, and in general I feel like I’ve actually gotten sick much less and had illnesses of shorter duration since starting methamizole.
Anon
Also, while I understand the argument that Covid hasn’t been around long enough for us to definitively know who’s at increased risk, cytokine storm is not a new phenomenon or one that’s unique to Covid. It can happen with any virus and is a major contributing factor to flu complications and deaths. If methimazole made cytokine storm more likely, we could have good evidence that people taking it are more likely to be hospitalized and/or die from flu, and we don’t.
The Lone Ranger
I’ll answer for myself. I’m 60, thin, very active (as in, I walk everyday and do yoga) . I have a chronic lung (and heart) disease that is treated with 3 very expensive medications that didn’t exist 20 years ago). Without those medications, I would be dead within a year. I won’t name the disease, and it’s fairly rare, so it’s doubtful that you have heard of it, but high risk is much more than overweight and old, and many, many, many autoimmune diseases cause people to fall into the high risk category..
Believe me, no one says they are high risk and locks themselves down like this if they don’t absolutely have to.
Anon
Several of the highest risk people I know have very rare conditions.
People often don’t realize that “rare disease is not rare” (there are so, so many individually rare conditions that having one of them is much less rare than people assume)!
I hope you’re able to stay safe.
Anon
I make the point about rare disease because people sometimes think, “Oh, so if rare disease causes high risk status, why are so many people saying they’re high risk??” As if rare diseases were, collectively, rare… which isn’t quite right. Though I’m sure there are many rare diseases that don’t contribute to risk, some really do.
Some of the elevated risk factors are pretty common though (diabetes and poor vascular health are very common in the US).
Anon
Isn’t obesity one of the biggest risk factors? That’s hardly rare, especially in the US.
Anon
Also, many people with autoimmune disease (that is SO common) have to take immune suppressants and that makes them high risk of catching the disease and not being able to fight it off.
I consider myself medium risk. I have asthma that is hard to control (as well as other autoimmune diseases) but I am not currently on immune suppressants.
The Original ...
Medically, some are high risk due to forms of cancer (including ones where there’s no cure but lifelong treatment), some due to doctors saying that the details of their chronic illness within their body would likely be exacerbated if they got covid (including lupus, endometriosis, and other type illnesses). Some are high risk because they have recently had surgery and aren’t healed yet. Some are high risk because they are allergic to the key drugs being used for treatment. Some are high risk due to having received organ transplant. Some are high risk if they have donated an organ.
Then there are the ones I’d consider situationally high risk: Some are the only parent of a child so becoming ill or dying would mean the child would be without a guardian. Some are the only educated employed person in the family so their illness would mean the whole family has zero income. Some are high risk because they do not have health insurance so any level of illness would ruin them financially, some are high risk because they are caregivers to someone medically fragile, some are high risk because they have a medically fragile child.
Although we so often think of this as just about dying from covid, many are also thinking about how the known long-term effects of covid would impact their existing health conditions, their families, their income, and their futures.
The Original ...
Posted a long response that’s (for some reason) stuck in mod but there are many reasons for high risk status and no one wants to be high risk. Remember too that some are thinking not just of dying but also of the realities of what can happen to the body if you live through covid so they are trying to avoid those experiences as well.
Anonymous
If I were you, I would be more locked down, even without being high risk. I’m not high risk at all and we don’t send our kids to daycare, don’t socialize with anyone outside of our family pod (which includes my local family who are all otherwise conservative about outings and interactions), and wouldn’t see kids who are in school/daycare without masks on outside. I’m sure I’ll get flamed for being “so anxious” or whatever, but I’m trying not to get a deadly virus that we don’t fully understand yet and to not pass it on to others.
Anon
Yeah this is great and all until your kid is suicidal due to the social isolation. Mental health is health too and keeping your children aware from peers indefinitely is not at all risk-free.
Anon
*away
ANon
making suicide jokes is never funny. Also, there are many ways to lessen kids’ struggles. Shaming parents this way is disgusting.
Anon
Okay, but school isn’t risk-free either; there are stats on how many kids commit suicide over the stresses of school attendance. Parents need to look out for their kids’ mental health either way.
Anon
I’m not joking? This is a true story. This is a friend’s child, not mine, and the social isolation was the cause, everything was fine when she could go back to school. My own child wasn’t suicidal but had obvious emotional and mental health struggles that were also alleviated by going back to in-person preschool. I’m not shaming anyone who chooses to keep their kids home, but that’s not the right choice for everyone. I and other parents who have chosen daycare for very real, important reasons – whether it’s needing affordable childcare or our kids needing to be with peers – shouldn’t be shamed either.
Fwiw, Covid is significantly less deadly in kids than the flu. My pediatrician strongly recommended that our child should go back to daycare as soon as it re-opened, and I have lots of friends who are doctors (some peds, some not) who all sent their kids back to daycare/school.
Anon
+1. Whenever I hear people say “it’s like the flu,” I cringe because it’s really not. Yes, the flu can kill you too, but the scary thing about coronavirus is that it also appears to cause long-term neurological damage and “brain fog,” which is just terrifying to think about.
Anonymous
This is what I’m worried about. I don’t think it will kill me, but it will probably ruin the rest of my life.
Anon
“Probably” seems kind of strong, given that 80% of people (and a much higher percentage of young people) have very mild cases.
Anon
Young people with mild cases are one of the risk groups for the long term complications though.
Anon
Source? Everything I’ve seen says long-term complications are much more frequent in people who were hospitalized (and especially people who were on ventilators), and young people are much less likely to be hospitalized or go on ventilators.
Anon
You’re just thinking of different long term complications. The damage caused by intubation, pneumonia, acute crises and ICU interventions are different from the neuroimmune sequelae that young, never-hospitalized “long haulers” are facing.
Anonymous
Actually, most long-haulers were never hospitalized, and middle-aged women who were previously healthy are most likely to be long-haulers.
Anonymous
My spouse has a late-stage autoimmune disease and has already had a bout of pneumonia and an ICU stay this year, unrelated to COVID-19.
Anonymous
Some 40 percent of the US population is high risk, due to age, coronary artery disease, diabetes, etc. And if you have a high risk person in your household everyone in the household needs to be careful. So the folks who post like the high risk are rare and no provisions need to be made for them need to understand that almost half the people you interact with at the grocery either could become seriously ill or get a high risk member of their family seriously ill if you decide to host a backyard gathering of the careless. Please act like adults and follow CDC guidance.
Anon
I think you need to focus on what you can control. I’d also (gently) point out that for many of these people (not the ones partying, of course), leaving their homes and exposing themselves to risk is the only way for them to make a living and support their families. And before someone says the government should provide – yes, there should be more benefits, but we’ll still need grocery store workers, and they can’t pay everyone for years on end. It’s an extremely privileged position to be able to shelter at home and never leave, and I think appreciating that rather than raging at everyone who dares leave their home, is important.
The Original ...
Agreed, though I took this as being focused only on those who are partying, refusing to wear masks, or deciding to act as if there is no pandemic, not those who have to go to work.
Anon
+1. That’s what this thread is about but people are being obtuse.
LaurenB
Sigh, no one is being annoyed at “regular” people who use appropriate precautions to go to work and make a living.
AnonPara
Right there with you. The governor of my midwest state refuses to mandate masks even though cases, hospitalizations and deaths are skyrocketing. Says if you are old or have pre-existing conditions you should just stay home. Yet also says that we need things open because people need social interaction. Except the olds and those high risk apparently. I live alone and only see BF a couple times a week. He wears a mask at work, but the individuals he gives direct care to cannot. His employer is doing all it can to mitigate risks, but it is far from perfect. I’m doing the best I can but do get resentful when I hear friends are taking ballroom dancing classes (!) or eating out. It’s hard to manage those emotions for sure.
Anonymous
I ballroom dance 5 days a week. Classes are limited to 5 people in a ballroom the fits 50, we don’t dance together, everyone wears masks, and the windows are open. I don’t see how this is any more risky than gyms, open, churches, open, or schools, open.
ANon
Weird wording. Everyone else does things that are unnecessarily risky but since mine is equally unnecessarily risky, it’s okay. No, none of them are recommended by scientists, none of them are required, all of them are putting people from different households at risk of exposure, which puts everyone they are in contact with at risk of exposure, and so on.
Anonymous
Sorry not staying home forever in my state that’s done a great job handling Covid and has reopened slowly and cautiously. Be as angry as you want.
Anonymous
Lol. Literally dancing. Ballroom dancing!!! I’m dancing on the graves of the fallen, Y you mad bro??
Anon
OP, people are giving you real suggestions and you are just raging at them. Did you really come here for advice? Or just to rage?
The Original ...
There are many anons here so it is likely that multiple people are sharing rather than one person.
Anon
The weirdest part of this thread is how many people seem to think every Anon is OP even when they say things like “I’m not high risk but I love such and such high risk person…”
The Lone Ranger
I feel so much the same.
Airplane.
I’m sorry. I think you need to stop watching everyone live their life – if you are staying at home and getting everything delivered, where are you seeing this? Social media, the news? Turn it off. And work on acceptance. Accept that you cannot control that others will make decisions that are a threat to public health and your health.
Resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. This festering anger is not going to help you or anyone.
Anonymous
Airplane’s point that you cannot control what other people do is key. We can’t control what anyone else does, we can only control our own actions and reactions. Getting angry and upset doesn’t change what other people will do at all. People need to learn their own techniques to deal with this — some may avoid social media, or avoid certain topics, or learn to accept it.
I go to the office because my company provides a critical, essential service (non-medical). Some days I am OK with it, other days people on the train wearing chin masks makes me rage. But, there is nothing I can do to make them wear a mask, so I do what I can, which is walk away. You may be angry that I ate at a restaurant outside this week, but I don’t care — the fact that it makes you angry isn’t going to get me to cook.
I’d like to add that many people must go in to work for many reasons. This includes that if you work at an essential service, many us consider it our duty to the communities we serve. Give people a little grace sometimes.
Anon
This thread is not about going to work in essential positions as people have pointed out many times. And yes, we know you won’t stop going to restaurants. We know all too well.
Anonymous
The key phrase here is “I don’t care.” You just don’t care. You don’t care whether you get COVID, or whether you give it to someone else, or whether my kid has to spend 7 hours a day filling out worksheets while listening to the teacher drone on over Zoom instead of going to the fantastic IB program that her school cut because of the pandemic. Your desire to eat in a restaurant is what’s most important to you.
wish it were a better world, but alas
Asking our fellow Americans to care about others, to consider the impact on others of one’s own behavior, to put the good of others over the desires of one’s self, is a very tall order at this particular time in history. There are of course cohorts of non-selfish people for whom I am grateful. But this pandemic could not have come at a worse time in recent American history, as far as civic responsibility, neighborly concern, and unified action (i.e. WWII) are needed. It is quite sad, but it’s the truth. We’ll be stuck in this for a long time. Less if the current administration is ousted, but even if so, a long time, due to behavior of the population and the science of the virus.
Anon
I am fortunately not high risk, but i am much more risk averse than many, so while I have been out more than OP has, I have still often felt anger towards people who seem to be out and about living their best lives. i even know people who were having another couple over for dinner during the initial lockdown. Yes, OP (and I) can stay home, but I would like to be able to go outside and do some lower risk activities, such as taking my kids to a playground, but i only feel comfortable doing them if the percent positive, r rate and number of cases in my area stay low which depends on actions taken by others. my sibling and i are currently in a fight, because while we do have a nanny coming to watch our kids, i am not comfortable getting on a plane, so sibling who lives driving distance has had to shoulder a bit more with our parent (who is totally healthy, but recently a widower), but sibling has decided that my risk calculus doesn’t make sense. i’d love to feel comfortable getting on a plane, but i don’t and i would never forgive myself if i got covid from flying and left my kids without their mother. [yes, i realize statistically the chance of dying in a car crash is probably greater…but driving places is more of a necessity than flying on a plane during a pandemic]. anyway – OP i get where you are coming from. to be less angry i’ve just had to focus on what i can control and what i can do to make my situation as manageable for me. my heart truly goes out to all high risk people out there
Anon
The people I know who are high-risk have also been the most empathetic and caring towards others during this pandemic. Perhaps because they’ve gone through so much more, they’re able to really watch out for and take care of others too. It doesn’t bother me if they get angry about people who are living their best lives right now. It doesn’t mean they aren’t good people with valuable lives to live – quite the opposite.
Anon
I agree. I know several high-risk people who are absolutely lovely people and they feel completely abandoned. It’s one thing for essential workers to go to their jobs, but it’s quite another to host a graduation party and take a big road trip and plan your normal Thanksgiving. Those activities are immoral and callous right now.
Anon
I know this isn’t the point, but gas can go bad and mess up your engine in just a few months. You should keep your tank as full as possible and maybe use a fuel stabilizer if you’re filling up so infrequently.
Anonie
Solely addressing the anger you expressed, but I think this is a situation where the serenity prayer (said with religious intent or not) is appropriate: “God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.”
Anon
Regrettably, I think that requires far more emotional maturity and self-awareness than many of these folks have.
Anon
Totally. OP didn’t come here looking for advice, she came to have a pity party and sadly, many others indulged her. I suppose she got the attention she was seeking.
Anon
Yes. So much of what happens in these Covid threads is about attention. I’m sorry so many people here don’t have a way to be seen/heard or validated in real life, and that lack shows up here, like this.
Anon
Nah, you guys are just defensive because you know you’ve been jerks to the most vulnerable and it sucks to get called out. You know you shouldn’t be going to restaurants and parties and you do anyway and you know deep down that it’s your fault that we’re in this mess for so long. Not OP, by the way.
Anon
Anon at 5:46, I do all the things I am supposed to do (masks, not going out, etc.) so don’t blame me. I’m not partying, but am still sick of the pity parties. I’m not one of the “jerks responsible for this mess.” fork the eff right off by making assumptions about me.
No Sponsors
Have you ladies ever dealt with a situation where you lack sponsorship at work?
I work in a very male-dominated industry, and all my coworkers are men with housewives. People at the senior level have to travel a lot for work and hustle for business, and 2 men on the team who had babies this year only took 2 weeks off for paternity leave — and people joked that it was the longest vacation either of them had ever taken. I’m in my early 30s, and I definitely feel a little heartburn thinking about what will happen to me when I have kids in this group.
The more pressing issue, though, is that I have been having sidebar discussions with some people regarding promotion, and I’m sensing that I don’t have strong sponsorship in the firm. The partners I work with are either not vocal in supporting junior folks / don’t want people to rise up and threaten them, or just don’t care and are disinterested in helping others.
Recently I’ve been reading about this, and found a few studies showing that in order to succeed in environments like mine, women need very strong sponsorship to advance and survive. I’m not sure what to do and what the path forward is for me. I would like to stay in the firm, but I also don’t plan on being an junior employee forever.
Anon
I think you have read the lay of the land pretty accurately and know that your firm is not a place where you can successfully have a family and be at a senior level. You may need to find a place that is a better fit. Even if you had a mentor-sponsor, the partnership is indifferent or threatened by younger people moving up. This may not be the place for you.
Anon
I think you have two separate issues here. First, is that you work in a very family-unfriendly environment, and you need to decide if you’re okay with that, or would rather pivot to an area that’s less unfriendly. I work in one of those environments, and for me, the things outweigh the things I don’t (yes, that means I took a very short maternity leave and was working for a good chunk of it – I was also lucky to have a medically uncomplicated delivery and a husband that could take almost double the parental leave I could). I love my job, but there are definitely tradeoffs, and you have to decide if those are worth it.
The second is the lack of sponsorship and mentorship at your specific firm – which, to be honest, sounds a bit toxic. This line: ” The partners I work with are either not vocal in supporting junior folks / don’t want people to rise up and threaten them, or just don’t care and are disinterested in helping others.” is what got me – that is not a healthy or productive work environment, and even in male-dominated workaholic industries, there are better firms where the senior management wants you to succeed.
anonshmanon
I have absolutely been there. My supervisors and senior colleagues gave me a lukewarm ‘go for it’, but zero feedback or coaching on my work product when I asked about feedback. From that, I am pretty sure that they didn’t go to bat for me when it came to promotions. I know that this is all a game of politics in my company and you can’t get there without an advocate. Add to that the fact that my degree is not Ivy League and I decided to pursue a different goal.
anonyK
I don’t know your industry, but I would keep your eye out for opportunities at other firms depending when the best time to move is. It sounds like you have assessed this situation pretty well and put out some feelers on your prospects. If you do get an offer from elsewhere, you can always take it to your boss first and have a frank discussion about your future prospects, that you like this place but are inclined to take another offer because you don’t think you have a future here. See if they fight to keep you.
start looking now
You need to move. Take what you’ve learned to a better opportunity. You won’t be able to singlehandedly change the culture at a place like this in the position you are in.
Anon
I’m struggling these days because my usual ways to blow off stress (shopping, going out for dinner/drinks, getting my nails done) aren’t really possible in my locked down city. Basically all I can do is stress eat. What do you guys do to feel better or reward yourself after a long day? (I know some of you will kindly suggest exercise but exercise for me is a form of torture, not stress relieving.)
Anonymous
To my surprise, since I’m not normally a puzzle person, building those 3D puzzles of famous buildings has become a great de-stresser for me when food and wine aren’t good options. I think it helps that it requires that I look at something physical rather than looking at a screen of any kind!
Senior Attorney
I’ve been doing plain old 1000-piece jigsaw puzzles and it’s been surprisingly fun.
Senior Attorney
…and relaxing.
bluebonnet
before it got dark so early I was taking longish walks while listening to audiobooks. These weren’t walks for exercise and I wasn’t even getting sweaty. I was just wandering and enjoying stories and sunshine. I’m having to come up with something new now so I will be watching this thread
anne-on
Exercise isn’t my favorite, but what about relaxing yoga? I have an obe trial and there is one yoga teacher who literally does yoga in face masks/wind down for the weekend type yoga, it is super relaxing and I feel really blissed out afterwards.
I also lean hard into the beauty/self care stuff. Throw on a hair mask, put on a sheet mask, file/paint my nails and watch something really silly or girly. Buy a whoooole lot of ‘silly’ books – romance, light thrillers, fantasy, nothing I’m ‘supposed’ to read, just light fun stuff. Puzzles and a fun beverage are also great – very active but don’t clutter you up with ‘stuff’ (I trade or give them away when I’m done). Bigger cooking projects are one thing I’m starting to do on the weekends – making parker house rolls and chicken a la king for a retro 50’s menu this Sunday (simple carbs and cream sauces are my kiddo’s happy place).
Anon
The struggle is very real when all of the relaxing activities are not safe. I’ve started reading more and it’s been an nice escape
Anonymous
Videos on how to draw – usually from youtube. I always wanted to be better at drawing and painting but was too embarrassed to take an in-person class so this is great.
AnonPara
After the thread on thyroid issues yesterday I wondered if anyone else has recently been diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. I found myself in the hospital in May (scary) for what turned out to be Graves’ disease. I was misdiagnosed until I went to another ER. I’m now receiving treatment. Dealing with an autoimmune disease is frustrating and isolating enough, but in the current environment it is truly awful. Anyone have advice regarding Graves’ or other autoimmune disease management they can share?
Anon
I don’t have any experience with Graves, but I’m sorry you’re going through this. I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease in my early 20s and a related immune deficiency in my late 20s. It’s really hard sometimes, but you just have to keep putting one foot in front of the other. It’s cliched, but it’s the only thing that works for me. Dwelling on my future or what it all means just freaks me out. You’ll get the hang of things and get into a routine, I promise.
BeenThatGuy
I’m so sorry about your diagnosis. I was diagnosed with RA 3 years ago. My best advice is find a good Rheumatologist. Someone who listens to you and takes time with you; many just want to prescribe you something and get you out the door. It took me 2 years to find a Rheumatologist I felt paid attention to me. Also, maintaining a balanced diet and consistent exercise has been key for me. The better I treat my body, the better I feel.
Anonymous
I was diagnosed a year ago with Graves. In retrospect, I had some symptoms, but attributed them to another health issue. I found out via a blood test from an annual physical and subsequent follow up. I started on medication and luckily have been able to gradually taper down to the current level that I expect I will be on for another year before I go off, as I understand there is an increased risk of rebound if you go off too soon. I’m hoping to be able to treat without surgery or radiation treatment, but time will tell.
I did go to see a naturopath a couple of times and took a tincture for a few months as well as giving up gluten and most dairy. I’m not sure if that helped or not. Covid and my Dad dying a few months ago resulted in me abandoning my new food routines. I might try and get back on them soon.
I hope you are able to manage through and get into remission.
Anon
I’m sorry! I was diagnosed with Graves’ disease postpartum (your immune system goes through all these weird changes in pregnancy and apparently that triggered it). I took methimazole – initially a moderate dose, but I was able to taper down to a really low maintenance dose (5 mg every third day) pretty quickly. I had no side effects from the methimazole except weight gain. I’m unfortunately now 15 pounds above my pre-Graves’ weight (+30 from my lowest weight, but 15 of those pounds definitely needed to come back) and losing weight is basically impossible for me, but it is what is. I don’t really like my endo – he’s been pushing me hard to do the radioactive iodine treatment, but I’m hesitant because my Graves’ is fully controlled with meds, I have a small child at home and there are seemingly some open questions about how RAI affects your future fertility. Apparently in the US long-term methimazole is not considered desirable, but in Europe it’s much more common. I don’t think I want to stay on it for life but am ok being on it for a few years while I figure out how I want to move forward. Finding a new endo was on my list for 2020 but then…pandemic. Fwiw, my endo has told me that Graves’ patients are not considered higher risk for Covid, and there are some similar statements out there from the American Thyroid Association and others. We’re generally being pretty cautious, but our toddler is in daycare because childcare is an essential need for us, her pediatrician felt very strongly that she needed to be around other kids, and my endo said it was fine.
Anon
Also wanted to point out what someone told me here when I was first diagnosed: anxiety is a symptom of Graves! So you may find your anxiety improves a lot when you get on meds/get your dose right.
Anon
100% this! I was diagnosed with Graves last year, and had physical symptoms for sure, but hoo boy it turns out the emotional symptoms were even worse and I hadn’t even been aware that they were there. Pre-treatment I was super jumpy and on-edge all of the time, crying daily and constantly ruminating on worst-case scenarios, it was awful but I just thought that I needed to somehow get better at managing my emotions (journaling??). Once I started treatment all of that disappeared and I feel so much more stable and like myself, it is incredible.
AnonPara
OP here. I am on methimazole too. It worked quickly and I am in the process of getting the dosage right. Since it can cause agranulocytosis, my endo told me to avoid people as much as possible. And yes, we are not at higher risk of contracting the virus, but we are more at risk of having complications. Like a cytokine storm where your immunue system goes into overdrive. Much like an autoimmune disease itself. I hope you continue to do well!
AnonPara
Oh and I was given this information by my endo, internist and an additional specialist. Yes, agranulocytosis is rare. But it can happen and I was told pointedly by my endo to be very careful. And since we know so little about the virus, I am hoping we find out that those with autoimmune diseases are not more at risk for adverse complications.
Anon
I responded to your comment above, but I’d really like to see some evidence for this statement that people on methimazole are at higher risk for COVID-19 complications. My endo and the American/British Thyroid Associations expressly say we are not at increased illness for severe COVID-19, and I have seen nothing that suggests otherwise.
Cytokine storm is not a unique Covid thing – it is a complication of all viruses. If we were at higher risk of cytokine storm, we would be at higher risk of complications and death from flu and other more well-studied viruses and 1) I’ve seen nothing that suggests we are and 2) if we were, we’d be classed as immuno-compromised (that means your immune system doesn’t work right, it isn’t limited to people with “weak” immune systems) and the medical literature is clear that methimazole is not an immune suppressant and people taking it are not immuno-compromised.
It’s tempting to say “autoimmune disease” = “overactive immune system” = “cytokine storm” but the immune system is way more complicated than that, and the thyroid is generally quite isolated from the rest of the body. Our thyroid cells are malfunctioning and methimazole is inhibiting our thyroid function, but it’s not an immune suppressant and doesn’t have any effect on our body’s immune system in general.
Anon
Also worth noting that women have much higher (up to 5x) rates of autoimmune disease than men, and men die from Covid at much higher rates than women (appox. 2x, even when you control for other factors like obesity) so it’s definitely not as simple as ‘overactive immune system’ = ‘Covid risk factor.’ The reason people with autoimmune disease are generally considered high risk is not because of the disease itself but because they are more likely to take whole body immunosuppressant medication (which methimazole is not).
AnonPara
I completely agree that the immune system is way more complicated than what I said above. I was informed by my endo, my internist and another specialist of the risks of methimazole as well as having a autoimmune disease. I agree that methimazole is not an immunosuppressant. Maybe it is because I am just starting treatment and am not stable yet. One article I found from a quick search is from International Journal of Molecular Sciences entitled ‘Cytokine Release Syndrome in COVID-19 Patients, A New Scenario for an Old Concern: The Fragile Balance between Infections and Autoimmunity.’ It does state people with autoimmune diseases are more at risk, including “In autoimmune patients, indeed, infections may induce disease flare-up that may be followed by a severe clinical course, representing a frequent cause of death (20–55%).” Perhaps you have more medical knowledge and will come to a different conclusion. It is truly hard to know if we are more at risk since the virus is novel.
Curls Style Help
What are the curly girls doing for hairstyles these days, especially for Zoom calls? And by curly I mean super curly (3a/b and curlier as I think the challenges of super curly versus kinda curly hair are different). I have 3c/4a hair that in the past I’d go to my salon and get a cute updo that would last a week or do a slicked back pony. I don’t feel comfortable going to the salon in my covid hotspot city, and don’t feel like tight ponytails in my own home (not as comfortable).
Are we just going wild and free? Are we wearing hats? Twistouts? Half up half down? I really don’t know where to start because my design arsenal is basically limited to salon style or ponytail.
Dear+Summer
One thing that helped was buying a curly half wig for zoom. The one I bought is under $20 and while unconvincing in real life it looks FANTASTIC on video. It matches my curl pattern & the fact that I can leave some of my curls out along the perimeter makes it very natural looking(for zoom). Other than that I did low ponytails, high buns, and flat-ironing.
Scottie
I have 3b curly hair and I keep it ‘wild and free’. I love the SheaMoisture Coconut & Hibiscus Curl Enhancing Smoothie which works really well for my hair. I do a bit of the half up half down for the occasional Zoom call because I think it frames my face nicely. But mostly I just let my curls do their thing… :)
Dating
I was watching tv the other night and swooned over a character because he made a dinner reservation and because he put on a nice shirt before meeting the gal for the meal. It made me realize (yet again) that standards for men are so so low. When you’re in a relationship, sure, there are hopes or plans or standards, but for so many of us single hetero women, it seems like any guy who will just text back and who can carry on a semi-intelligent conversation becomes a real contender. Ugh all around.
Anonymous
Dating is so discouraging. The best thing you can do is avoid wasting your time and emotional energy on losers. Cut them loose and thank them for showing their true colors before you were married with a baby on the way. I’m apparently a slow learner because it took me until like 33 to figure this out.
I’m now dating a great guy that I might’ve passed on if not for the circumstances. I was really into a guy I met through friends, but it was early on and we hadn’t DTR so I was still half heartedly swiping through dating apps. On the afternoon of our next scheduled date, he canceled and said he didn’t want to see me anymore; he felt like I was looking for “too much” even though he’d already introduced me to his parents, coworkers, and friends. I was pretty disappointed but I wasnt going to let this guy bring me down. I had been chatting with now-BF for a little while so I asked him out for that night. His profile was awful, he didn’t even have a nice face pic, he had sunglasses in every picture. I actually didn’t recognize him when I first saw him, I walked right past him and he had to hunt me down! He was dressed too casually for the venue (hiking shoes at a trendy bar!) and barely made eye contact he was so nervous. But I was determined to have a good time on that date, I persisted in being flirty and outgoing. He eventually loosened up and we ended up talking for over 3 hours – something I never do on a first date. That was almost a year ago and we’ve been basically inseparable since then.
Anon
Ahhh it drives me crazy when men who are afraid to commit or even figure out what they want blame the women they date for “wanting too much.” It’s never actually the woman’s problem, it’s always men who need to figure their own sh!t out.
Anon
Does anyone else get sad when a show they enjoy ends? I discovered “Hart of Dixie” recently via N3tflix and marathoned it over the past weeks. I was pre-emptively sad about 6 episodes before the finale and felt really sad to lose the characters, their town, and my escape when the show was done.
I realized that I feel that way any time a series finale comes when I’ve watched since the beginning. The same thing when I’m nearing the end of a great book. Wondering if others feel this way
EM84
Yes, feel the same, but only if I enjoy the book/series. I also need to take a break before I feel like starting watching/reading something new.
Scottie
Totally! Definitely if it was one I really loved. I sometimes put off the final episodes, and then don’t end up finishing until like 3 or 4 months later! Hart of Dixie was a fun one – a great silly escape style show. But it’s like a bittersweet sadness right, it’s the ‘oh I loved that, am sad that there isn’t more of it, but really enjoyed it while I could!’
BeenThatGuy
I felt this way about Schitt’s Creek. I don’t think I’ve ever watched a better comedy show develop their characters.
Leatty
Same! Just binge watched it last week while on maternity leave.
Anonymous
+1 Dan Levy is a genius and I’m so happy CBC took a chance on him.
NY CPA
Yes. I was so sad when Downton Abbey went off air. I was really glad they put out a movie (and possibly a sequel to come?). I’ll be really sad when Call the Midwife Ends, but thankfully no sign of that soon.
PNW
I do. My husband jokes about me going online to talk to the “internet people” about shows and story lines that I get caught up in. I’m a sucker for good character development and a solid “hero’s journey” storyline.
+1 to Schitt’s Creek and going a bit further back I got very caught up in the first season of The Terror. Thought I wouldn’t because it’s a bit of a sausage fest but I’ve rewatched it I think three times. I was so sad to see that end.
Anon
completely! i also recently discovered Hart of Dixie and was so sad when it ended. I then watched Sweet Magnolias, but it only has one season! i was soooo sad when Parenthood ended. i miss the bravermans!
The Original ...
I watch(ed) and LOVE all of these!!!! I would encourage you to watch Friday Night Lights if you haven’t tried it yet, I would go in without reading up on the show first and I’d give it at least 3 episodes of a try (some actors from shows you mentioned and some writers and creators from them too)! (As an FYI, season 2 happened during the Writers Strike so there’s some weird storyline stuff but it’s a fantastic show.)
Anon
i’ve watched friday night lights. liked that a lot as well. i’m a huge tv watcher – i’m running out of shows
Anonie
Ah I just commented below but I LOVED and miss the Bravermans!
Eliza
At the beginning of the lockdown in March, I was looking for a good, long escapist book series and found it in A Song of Ice and Fire. After finishing the books, DH and I started watching the tv series. We’re getting ready to start the final season, and after living in the GOT world for 7 months, I’m really going to miss it. So yes, I hear you!
Abby
ahh! the books are so good. On the plus side we’re owed 2 more books but who knows if we’ll ever get them. I hope GRRM has been taking quarantine as a time to WRITE.
Eliza
They really are! So richly imagined.
Anonie
Yes! My fiance and I slowly streamed the seemingly never-ending seasons of Scrubs over the past year or so and I was legitimately SAD when it finally ended. (I got sad at the conclusion of Season 8 rather than than Season 9, which was a silly and unnecessary add-on haha).
I remember being close to tears when Parenthood, which I watched in real time, ended. I even have felt this way about much shorter shows and sometimes even shows I thought I wasn’t all that invested in.
On the flip side, I love reading but also I LOVE finishing books. I feel so accomplished whenever I finish a book and oddly not in the least sad to say goodbye, no matter how much I loved the characters.
Medical/mental health advocacy?
*Potential trigger warning, re: suicide*
DH’s cousin (late 30s) recently survived a suicide attempt and is being discharged from rehab very, very soon with medical and mental health needs. Prior to this, for 15 years, he experienced chronic pain, lived with DH’s aunt, and did not work. He has no insurance, doesn’t qualify for SS disability (not a lot of work history), etc. etc. He will receive PT and OT 3-4x/week, but will rely on DH’s aunt for full-time care, transportation, etc. There is very limited family nearby to assist, and (we believe) he really needs a full-time residential placement. DH’s aunt was at the breaking point prior to this, and the situation is entirely too much given the new reality. Question: How does one seek addtional care if there is no money to throw at it, e.g home health aide, residential program, etc.? Is there a for-hire advocate/navigator-type person that can provide assistance? A lawyer? Any ideas are greatly appreciated. Central PA.
Anonymous
SSI doesn’t require a work history. A social worker can help you with this. The facility he was at or the one he’s being sent to for out patient should have a social worker on staff or be able to refer you to one.
The Original ...
Without money to throw at it, often these individuals end up attempting until they are gone or they become homeless. It’s one of the reasons equal access to mental healthcare is so crucial. Your best bet is to encourage the individual to request a social worker via their facility. They can also apply for SSDI if they have documentation proving they cannot work for a long period of time due to this. I’m so sorry you’re going through this!
Anon
NAMI is a great resource. I don’t know the answer to your questions but I bet they would.
Advice though as someone with a similarly situated Aunt/Cousin – you can’t force someone into a placement. My cousin goes through the same cycle over and over. Attempts suicide, forced hospitalization, forced meds, coherent and discharged, stops meds/treatment, is deemed competent so not forced to restart treatment, gets majorly depressed off meds, attempts suicide, is admitted, etc.
It is so sad to watch. Also, because of the move away from “institutionalizing” people there are so fewer residential placements. There needs to be a middle ground for families that can’t take care of a family member because their mental health needs are too great. Something more like a group home than a prison. I know someone that has a very mentally ill child. Said child has literally tried to kill their parents. The courts say it is due to mental illness so we won’t prosecute. Social services says you are doing the best you can so we won’t take him away. What if the parents want him taken away for their safety? They don’t apparently have an option for that.
Medical/mental health advocacy?
We thought of NAMI too. Unfortunately, DH’s aunt was not terribly impressed with the local chapter when she meet with them previously. While she lives in a good-sized town/small city, it doesn’t seem like there are multiple chapters there according to their website.
Anonymous
What about disability? People can go on disability having no work experience at all — is it possible you’re overlooking/misinterpreting something there?
Anon
that is so so sad. those poor parents – i cannot imagine having a child like that.
Anonymous
The standard for involuntary hospitalization is danger to self or others. They should be looking into that option.
Anon
The issue is after that episode has subsided and he is “regulated” again until the next episode. He can’t be hospitalized during that.
Jess
The hospital and rehab places should both have social workers he can coordinate with. The best thing for him would be Medicaid, and sometimes government agencies have social workers available to help with applications for government aid for disabled individuals (which he should qualify for).
It’s possible that he would qualify for SS disability if the applications were done better–consult a lawyer here. Also, having another breakdown should be helpful for getting aid.
He can plausibly claim to be homeless (the technical definition should be couch surfing, which he’s doing; if it not clear that he’s couch surfing, Mom probably doesn’t need to try very hard to feign a breakdown due to caring for a disabled adult child so that he can meet the technical definition of homelessness.) Being homeless should let him jump to the top of the line of Section 8 housing or a full-time residential placement for people with disabilities. If he can get SSI, Medicaid, and Section 8 he’ll be okay and the family can set up a trust for additional expenses that his income might not cover.
Medical/mental health advocacy?
Jess-
Thank you for your response. It is really helpful and while normally I would think it’s a stretch, it now seems like the best, reasonable course of action. We believe one of the reasons he didn’t qualify for SS disability is because the application was not strong enougth.
anon
I have a bunch of winter squash–butternut, acorn, and delicata. I like squash generally, but haven’t had them in regular menu rotation. Anybody have a good recipe they would recommend? No dietary restrictions, and I’m a fair-to-middling cook.
Anon
no particular recipe, but just roasting is great. i also like them roasted in a salad, paired with goat cheese. skinny taste has some good recipes
anon
soup! I’d do a squash and curry soup. I’d browse Feasting at Home and she her takes. Her recipes always, always turn out and she knows how to pack big flavor into veggies.
Anon
I like winter squash fried up like hash with breakfast eggs.
Also easy: adding some chopped winter squash to a standard miso soup.
When I lived in Italy, chopped winter squash was often served in a chicken broth soup with chickpeas. I thought it was kind of boring when I lived there, but I am sometimes nostalgic for it now.
I think some of these may cook up into more of a mush than would work in the recipes I’m describing. In this case, serving them almost like porridge can be good (butter and brown sugar, if that’s how you take porridge, for example).
dlc
Mark Bittman’s squash and apple schwarma. This came in my Purple Carrot meal box several years ago and I still make it regularly. Basically roast squash with coriander, cumin, tumeric, and cardomom. and then mix it with sauteeed apple. make a zhoug (Garlic, cilantro, parlsey chopped together), and eat it all on pita or f;atbread. It’s the perfect balance of sweet and savory. The recipe says to use Kabocha squash, but I’ve also used butternut. I bet you can also use delicata, though it might veer on the sweet side.
https://www.purplecarrot.com/plant-based-recipes/kabocha-apple-shawarma-with-flaky-yemeni-pancakes-and-cilantro-parsley-zhoug
Senior Attorney
I’m trying this one tonight: https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/12881-roasted-chicken-thighs-with-winter-squash
MKB
I don’t have a NY Times subscription, but I think that’s the one I was coming here to post! http://westfieldareacsa.com/2019/10/roasted-chicken-thighs-with-delicata-squash/
This is one of my favorite recipes for delicata. I will say, though, that we dislike the whole coriander and I always crush it before cooking.
Marie
Love this one pan chicken meal. While not squash-centric, contains butternut squash, is super easy to put together, very “fall/winter,” requires very little attention, and is delicious:
https://www.thechunkychef.com/sheet-pan-maple-mustard-roasted-chicken/
Anonymous
Giada de Laurentiis’s rigatoni with squash and prawns. You don’t need the prawns.
Anon
Afghan kaddo borani! I usually use butternut squash, but other varieties would work, too.
ArenKay
Last Sunday’s NY Times had a Samin Nosrat recipe for a curry butternut soup. It is outstanding; I’m glad I followed the recommendation to make double.
CoastalSensation
I’ve been dreaming about this easy garlic parmesan delicata squash recipe since last fall:
https://www.thekitchn.com/delicata-squash-recipes-22949295 Note to self: make this again soon!