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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I just love everything about this dress — the raspberry color, the faux wrap shape, the ruching on the side, and the pretty folds that add dimension. The whole effect is super flattering. I would probably wear a cami (to add some coverage), a black blazer, and a chunky gold necklace.
The dress is $148 and available in sizes 1X–3X at Nordstrom. Sizes are selling out, but Leota's own website has 0X–5X in stock. Scarlett Faux Wrap Dress
For straight sizes, Nordstrom has a Leota faux wrap dress in two solid colors and five prints (lucky sizes only, alas) for $148.
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Sales of note for 9.19.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September, and cardmembers earn 3x the points (ends 9/22)
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles — and 9/19 only, 50% off the cashmere wrap
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Anniversary event, 25% off your entire purchase — Free shipping, no minimum, 9/19 only
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- Tuckernuck – Friends & Family Sale – get 20%-30% off orders (ends 9/19).
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
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Paging Parm
Just saw your comment yesterday – if you really want to get rid of it all in one fell swoop try making broccoli cheese soup with Parmesan instead of cheddar. It is SO good. :)
anon.
I saw that too – look at Smitten Kitchen’s broccolini and potato frittata recipe. It’s fantastic and I just used up a LOT of parm with it.
In-House in Houston
Hi Ladies, a few of us posted about make-up and wanting a refresh. At a meeting last week a friend/colleague of mine was talking and as I was looking at her I noticed her face was glowing, so of course I asked her and she said it was a new foundation from Clinique called “even better glow.” Last weekend I went to the Clinique counter at Macy’s and was lucky enough to get a young, fresh-faced associate to help me. I told her what I wanted in a foundation (coverage but very light) and mentioned what my friend was using and she helped me pick out the right shade, a light powder and a blush. I even had to ask her for suggestions b/c she was not trying to up-sell me anything. I went to Macy’s with a clean face, just moisturizer/sunscreen and a little eye make-up because I really wanted to try the make-up and knew if I went with no eye make-up it would be hard for me to tell. I really love it! Just wanted to share.
anon
I’m intrigued. I like Clinique products in general — I have quite a few, both for makeup and skincare — but I’ve never had great luck with their foundations. (Lots of problems with oxidation and general wear.)
anne-on
+1 I’d be very curious to see how it wears. I tried clinique foundations many times in my early 20’s but did find they oxidized and went weirdly orange very quickly. Also, how was the shade range? I didn’t have great luck with them matching my super pale skin (although again, this is in the early aughts).
In-House in Houston
OP here. I am very fair too and it matches great. She matched me to the “even better glow” – I think their entire foundation line is called “even better” but this has “glow” in the title and has light-reflecting pigments. My color is Alabaster, so from the name alone you can tell it’s pretty fair. I’ve been wearing it all week and I haven’t had any yellowing at all.
Anon
“was lucky enough to get a young, fresh-faced associate to help me”
Weird ad.
Anon
Right?? What a bizarre comment and I know, she’s a regular poster, but this still reads like sponcon to me.
LaurenB
OOTL – what is sponcon?
Anon
Sponsored content
anon
A quick vent, and I’ll move on: I completely get why teleworking is important to stop the spread of COVID-19. I’m on board. But I’m also dreading it. While not having a commute is great, I have never enjoyed working from home, at all. I get restless and bored and the cabin fever sets in quickly. I really value having separation between work and home. Not to mention that hovering over a little laptop computer for 8-9 hours a day is a giant pain (literally) compared to using my large desk and dual monitor in the office. OK, rant over, because I can’t exactly say these things to anyone IRL.
Anon
I totally agree. I certainly am not selfish enough to needlessly risk anyone’s health, but I have never been disciplined enough to work consistently from home. The cat will do something cute, or I’ll suddenly decide it’s critical to do laundry immediately, etc. I’m dreading the hit to my productivity. I do at least have a desk/dual monitor setup at home, but I won’t have access to staff and other resources I have come to completely depend on.
Anonymous
My cat is really hoping I get quarantined because he believes he deserves a full time stay at home cat mom.
Anon
Yes, I also get disapproving looks every morning when I leave!
anon
Ha! Yes, I’m sure my cat feels the same way.
Anonymous
My dog does not approve of screen time. When I work from home, she refuses to sit next to me in her dog bed and instead stares at me disapprovingly from the other room until I’m done and put the computer away. (She does the same with TV, phones, and iPads.)
Anon
Mine tries to paw the screen out of my hand!
cbackson
Yessss my dog misbehaves when I am having screen time instead of playing with him. Not TV, but phones, iPads, and computers.
(He likes watching TV.)
Not that Anne, the other Anne
If I spend too much time staring at my laptop, I will suddenly have a cat on the desk between me and the screen. He doesn’t meow to warn me he’s coming up — there’s just a surprise cat. I anticipate this WFH possibility being an adjustment for us all.
CountC
My dogs feel this way! Cat, not so much. #cats
Ellen
I think I heard that dogs can get corona virus, so if you get sick, stay away from your cat. Also, Dad says a lot of restaruants have to worry about what animals they have in the back to kill mice and rats b/c those animals also can get corona virus into the food supply. This is quickly becoming a mess. I don’t have a pet, tho Myrna has a cat.
Anon
My suggestion is to schedule calls at regular intervals with coworkers to discuss work as well as shoot the breeze. I’m sure there are many who feel as you do.
Anonymous
+1000 Except I’ve said these things to people IRL. Of course I’ll do it. But its going to suck.
Samesies
I always say that the reason I go to work is to save money on my heating/AC bills and to drink the work-coffee, not spend money on my own coffee and snacks.
so yup, I get the niceties of yoga-pant work but I don’t like WFH that much either.
Anonymous
I’m the anon at 9:16. The e mail just went out. We start Monday. I work in manufacturing support at a pharmaceutical manufacturing facility, so this is absolutely the right decision. But it sucks.
anon
I’m looking at bringing home some stuff from the office for a time period. I won’t be able to replicate the two-screen setup and my lovely sit-stand desk, but a screen and reasonable keyboard will probably come with me.
Leatty
Totally understand. I worked from home several days a week before all of this, and now I’ll only be going in the office 4-5 days a month. As much as I enjoy working from home several days a week, I’m not looking forward to this much remote work. I have a great set up at home, and I’m every bit as productive (if not more productive) at home as I am in the office, but there are definite downsides to working from home.
Anon
Can you bring your desktop work computer home with you? I get that this only works if you have access to a car though.
Em
This is genius. Having dual monitors significantly increases my efficiency. I would never do it for occasional WFH but if we are looking at a long-term WFH I am totally bringing my whole set-up home.
anon
That’s a thought. It would be a royal pain to set up, but might be worth it if this is a long-term thing.
Anon
Do it! It has made SOOOOOO much difference in both my enjoyment of WFH and productivity.
Ellen
I have a full work set up at home so I am good to go in case of Corona Virus. We planned for this long ago, as I thought that I might have to stay home in case I got pregnant and needed to be safe with a baby.
Anon
I agree with all of this
Anon
totally agree. and i really feel for all of the college students being sent home to finish off their semesters. aside from the huge change of on-line learning vs. in-person learning, not being able to consult with peers in the same way, not having their friends nearby, etc. there are also many students (i work at a top tier university, though not one that has yet fully shutdown) who do not really have a safe/fully functional home to return to and being in college is the first time they reliably have 3 meals a day to eat. some of those students are being permitted to stay on campus, but can you imagine how that must feel to stay on-campus while many of your friends head home to their families. and the disappointment of some students who have been working on research or other projects for months that they will not get to finish (some of these projects actually yield results that benefit us as a society). most schools are not offering tours to prospective students so for all those high school seniors who were planning on visiting schools to decide where to attend, that is now off the table. thinking of all of you parents of those college and high school students
Anonymous
Seriously wondering how on-line college will work in the sciences — that 3-hour chem lab is very much a “don’t try this at home” thing.
pugsnbourbon
I saw a tweet about how NYC public schools don’t want to close because something like 100k students are homeless and won’t have access to meals if they do. No idea if that number is correct but it sounds plausible.
This pandemic is going to reveal some real deep fault lines in our country (it already has, but there will be more).
Anonymous
It’s not just homeless students–many others depend on school breakfast and lunch. There are also concerns that parents will either leave kids home alone or not show up to their critical jobs.
anon
I’m not in NYC but I volunteer for a child welfare organization and this stuff was a big topic of discussion at our meeting on Monday. Teachers are a major partner for us because they see the students daily and so they recognize when things are challenging or are different. Obviously they see a new bruise or something but they also see if the child is much angrier than normal or much more introverted. If schools shut, not only do kids lose a daily meal which for many is their main/major meal of the day, but no one is checking on the kids every weekday. In my town, we would have to implement the summer plan of opening school cafeterias during lunch so kids could still get that meal and so I’m not sure how much shutting the schools would even help.
Anon
Not sure about homelessness but a huge number of nyc students get free lunch/breakfast. It’s one of the reasons the schools rarely close for snow days as well.
Anonymous
My teenager wanted to take an on-line science course. When I found out that the students were expected to conduct full-on labs at home, and saw the list of materials, I vetoed the whole thing. No thank you to dissections in my kitchen.
anon
UC Berkeley is moving classes online, but labs are still running. It’s all about reducing what can be reduced.
Anonymous
Colleges that friends’ kids are in are just sending them HOME to take classes online. Which is great if you are in-state but not sure how this will work for international students (a bunch of whom are from . . . coronavirus hotspots like China).
Anonymous
I would hope that colleges aren’t sending international students back to level 3 and 4 countries, and I expect the point is to limit congregating in dorms and other spaces where transmission could occur. If the dorms empty out, surely the 5-10% or so of international students left on campus would still be sufficiently isolated?
Anon
At least my college is keeping dorms open for everyone who can’t go home, whether because they are from China/Italy/Korea/etc, or just for financial reasons. But we anticipate that 90% or so of students will go home, and that will make it much easier to practice social isolation for the remaining 10%, should it be needed.
Anjie
Engineering major here, with lab classes. The TA who runs my geotechnical lab (also very much a “don’t try this at home” thing, and the equipment is very expensive) says that if we go to online classes, she’ll probably get video of herself doing the experiments, and we’ll watch that and use her data to write our reports. That only works for some labs, and it’s not great for the ones where it does work, but it’s better than nothing.
My siblings’ schools have gone to online classes only until at least the end of March. Mine lets out for spring break on Friday, and I expect to hear that we’re also going to online classes in about a week.
anon
I’m from a town that still only has slow dial up internet. People there can’t stream netflix or anything. I assume any students from places like that (and there are still lots of places like that) are being allowed to stay on campus
Telco Lady JD
Totally understand all of this. A possibility….. When I was a junior associate, I bought a ginormous monitor so that I could do document review at home in my pjs. I think it was about $300, but that was almost ten years ago – you could probably get one cheaper now. Mine has paid for itself many times over, and I can’t recommend doing this enough.
Anonymous
Obviously, this all depends on your personal situation and how much $ and space you have and want to devote to a work from home setup. A little more than two years ago now I bought two monitors from dell and a docking station for my laptop (asked IT what I should get) and essentially duplicated what I have at work. I bought slightly older and smaller monitors (like 20″ vs. 24″ at work or something) but the total set up was just about $300 for these three things. Work was all too happy to provide me with a “old” keyboard and mouse that was taking up too much space in the storage room. However, that $300 makes me 10X more productive at home than when I was just working on my laptop. My thought process was “If I’m working at home, it’s because I didn’t finish everything at work, so I want to spend as little time as possible working at home, and not dealing with spending a lot of time getting logged back into work is very helpful in this regard.
But I agree – I dislike working from home.
Anon
WFH doesn’t work for everyone, but it works great for me – I’m MUCH more productive. Thanks for doing your part to help prevent the spread of coronavirus. It won’t be forever.
Anon
PS The absolute key to success is dual
monitors at home.
Junior Associate
+ a million. Or a huge screen.
Anonymous
I just bought a document camera.
anon
Yes, it’s the right thing to do. No, not everyone loves it. And that’s okay! Both things can be true at the same time. Hopefully it’ll all be over soon.
anon
Why not buy what you need? A decent monitor can be purchased for <$100 and a mouse or keyboard should be much less than that or potentially even available from your IT department. Will make your life hugely better not only for the next two weeks but also any time you work from home in the evenings or on sick days in the future!
Ribena
I agree – I live alone and get real cabin fever. I went out for a 20 minute walk before sitting down at my desk this morning which really helped.
anonymous
I already work from home 1 day a week, but I do not enjoy WFH full time. It tends to exacerbate my depression. So far my company is not requiring people to WFH full time so I’m sticking with my normal schedule. And I tend to keep wandering into the kitchen to find something to eat.
Thanks, it has pockets!
No I feel you, I’m not a fan of working from home either. Even when I have the option of WFH once a week all the time, I’d rather save it for days I need to, like if I’m a little sick or we’re getting a major snowstorm, or my car needs some work. But alas, this is one of these situations where I kinda need to, and it will suck a little, but it’s temporary.
Anon
I work from home full time and it’s definitely an adjustment if you’re not used to it. I do have the dual monitor, fancy desk, Aeron chair, etc setup at home, though.
anne-on
+1. You really need to treat WFH as duplicating your office as much as possible to make it successful. I have the same laptop, a nice chair, a sit/stand desk, files, and a dedicated space. I WFH about 75% of the time and I’m more productive at home that in the office (also because when I’m in an office I tend to be fully dedicated to meetings/client work and can’t get anything else done!).
Anom
Totally agree. I’m in a small apt in NYC with two kids. There is no space to put desks for me and DH. Or monitors. Let alone dual monitors. One kid’s preschool is closed today for cleaning after a person who was in another part of the building for a few hours a few days ago tested positive. I’m very thankful to our nanny. And the NYC DOE for not shutting down schools yet, although I wish they would end field trips.
anon
Oh gosh, same. NYC apartment with two adults WFH (and two kids who are in preschool today but will be home the next two days). Definitely do not have space for a ginormous monitor, let alone two!
I love WFH on the occasional day or two, where I deliberately select a day with few meetings to really dig in to a brief or other research or writing project, print out relevant materials to bring home, and spend part of the day in a windowed coffee shop. It’s completely different to try to do the full range of tasks, all from inside my apartment. Sigh.
Anonymous
Seriously, I can WFH but need quiet and also a place to have confidential conversations. Spouse WFH involves nonstop VIDEO calls, so no way to sneak into the kitchen or cook meals (not a silent activity) or wash dishes (we don’t have sets of pots to leave unwashed from lunch meal to dinner meal). Apartment is alarmingly open-concept. Will be Much Fun if we are having to WFH and schools are closed. I may work in my car.
Anonymous
I would 100% take my monitors with me.
Anon
My sister’s company has ordered all of their employees to work from home until April. Her husband already works from home. She’s not so much worried about covid as she is being annoyed to death by her husband. Too much togetherness!
Coach Laura
LOL I love working from home alone. Hate it with DH here too. Too much togetherness. He has a job that formerly had to be done in person but VOIP and technology advances now makes it possible. But I’m glad both of our employers along with many large Seattle employers are taking it seriously.
Pj
When I work on my laptop from home, I plug a full size keyboard into the laptop and then put a box or books under my laptop to prop it up to eye level. It’s the closest to being at my desk (minus the double screens) that I can make it.
Anon
I’m with you, I hate working from home. I get distracted very easily and I also hate not having the physical separation between work and home life.
Anon
I’ve struggled with autoimmune issues in the past, with little or no understanding from multiple jobs. Seeing telework magically become available to so many people because companies are worried about their pocketbooks is not a surprise, but it sure is making me bitter.
A
Yes, I fought tooth and nail, wrote business cases, met with my manager to argue my case, got a one day a week….now, big bank, large metropolitan city in Canada, and I’m betting we go full time WFH by next week, because our EVP wants to limit contact. Stupid
Anonymous
I agree- one of the things that changed the experience at home for me was we finally bought a nice big monitor. It makes it so much more bearable now. I will say I enjoy being able to take a walk at lunch or even cooking a real lunch over a frozen meal.
Anonymous
I work in an area where there is coronavirus. I don’t work in healthcare, financial services or any other field that is affected by the epidemic. If anything, there will be less need for my work as the entities my office deals with slow down. All employees have been reminded that we are essential and must report to work unless we actually have the virus.
Anyone else in a similar situation? How are you handling it? I am not handling this well.
Anon
I think the only choice most people have is to continue going to work per the usual if they’re not sick. Save the sick time for when you need it, right?
Anonymous
Not sure that would work in the current situation. People who have been exposed are supposed to self quarantine, even if they are not displaying symptoms. I would not ignore a doctor’s orders to self quarantine. And I certainly don’t want to have to work next to people who have and I am not even aware that they have been exposed.
Anonymous
Yes!! I had to have my 80 year old mom watch my daughter who is home with a sore throat fever and cough bc my boss bitched me out for wfh when my
Other kids were sick last week. Even though my job is ? conducive to wfh and I’m more productive
Microbiologist
Research is showing that people are shedding virus from their nose and throat for days before they show any symptoms, so simply telling people who stay home when they know they’re sick is not going to be enough to avoid the spread of this virus. To speak to the points of people below, this virus is spreading rapidly because nobody has prior immunity and there’s no vaccine, which is very different than the flu. The mortality rate is higher in general, but seems to be much higher for older people and could get higher still if it overruns the capacity of our medical system to deal with it. There’s not a lot of extra capacity now and when you add a pandemic ON TOP of everything else, people that might otherwise be treatable die simply because hospitals don’t have the ability to care for them. That’s why it’s so important to take this seriously and slow down spread to a manageable level.
Anonymous
1000% THIS ☝️
Anon
This. There are way more cases than known because of the lack of access to testing in the US. Ventilator allocation protocols are already being set up across the US so that hospitals can triage and prioritize treating those more likely to survive, and basically give up treatment for those likely to die.
Anonymous
This is what scares me. But we are just sticking our heads in the sand because we don’t want “the numbers” to look bad.
Anonymous
It’s definitely more widespread here than the numbers reflect. We’re testing way less people than the Europeans and Brits.
Anon
Officials are playing bullsh1t games. Quote from Pittsburgh paper:
“Pennsylvania officials are citing a 1955 law authored in the heyday of syphilis to withhold details about coronavirus cases, including how many people have been tested.
…
The state’s Disease Prevention and Control Law, passed in 1955, allows the health department to keep records and reports of contagious diseases strictly confidential, though aggregate data can be provided to researchers.
Health officials can release safeguarded information if they determine the public benefit would outweigh privacy concerns, a department spokesperson said.”
Anon
That is crazy that Pennsylvania is doing that! I have to imagine the final information will come out eventually, what with FOIA laws and staff since I don’t know of any states that don’t have a FOIA.
Anonymous
Could you tell us more about this? The reports from Italy are that they are providing treatment to younger patients and denying it to older patients or those with a preexisting condition. Will the same happen here? Will it depend on whether you are at a facility with a religious affiliation or at a civil facility? This is really important for us to understand.
Anonymous
They are running out of ICU beds and ICU equipment like ventilators – older people are less likely to survive even with ICU assistance so they are focusing on saving the patients who are more likely to make it. Older people are still getting treatment right now but not necessarily in ICU. This is why health agencies are emphasizing the need to flatten the curve – so everyone doesn’t get it at once. Spreading the transmission out over a longer period by slowing the transmission gives the hospitals time to treat more people. We’re past the ability to stop community spread – it’s about flattening the curve so hospitals are not overwhelmed at this point.
Anon
Late to reply but this : https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/upshot/coronavirus-biggest-worry-hospital-capacity.html
Anon
Data point: I live in suburban Boston and work downtown. Work to home is 18 minutes in no traffic. Typical morning commute is 45-55 mins. Today it was 28 mins. People are 100% working from home.
Anon
BART ridership in the Bay Area was down 25% on Monday and I bet it will be down even more later this week.
Anon
I saw the photos of the interstates in Boston and… wow. They are almost never that empty.
Senior Attorney
Same here in Greater L.A. Traffic down at least 30%.
Anonymous
i am. my office is not closed and my clients are not closed (the nature of their jobs is not WFH). maybe it’s my natural lawyer pessimism, but my anxiety is OOC. I feel like I cannot trust people to wash their hands, or trust the media or government to have a rational response. I also feel like it is difficult to get a real sense of how much of an issue this truly is, and that is extremely unsettling. I am young/healthy and prob will be fine but the mass hysteria (or not?) is really messing with me.
Thanks, it has pockets!
We were just asked to WFH every day through the rest of the month, and there’s about to be a ton of “all hands” meetings about the situation. I’m really dreading an announcement that my department is going to slow down to the point where some of us (like me) won’t be needed anymore. But I’m reminding myself this situation is temporary.
anonymous
I’ve heard people say that statistically the flu kills more people each year than the coronavirus has (so far). If so, then why aren’t all these extreme precautions taken each year during flu season? Is it because there is a flu vaccine available? How many people who were diagnosed with the virus have recovered?
Wendy
My understanding is so far the flu kills more people because it’s more prevalent, but COVID has a higher mortality rate, i.e., if the same # of people contract COVID as contract the flu, far more will die.
Anon
The flu kills more people because it’s already everywhere, but if the coronavirus spreads everywhere it will be more deadly. It already is more deadly when you adjust for case count. I believe the goal is to prevent that from happening and to prevent it from getting a foothold.
pugsnbourbon
1. there’s a flu vaccine 2. the flu’s overall mortality rate is much lower (like .05% vs. an estimated 3% for covid) even though the flu itself is more common 3. we expect the flu every year and medical services can prepare somewhat; we are unprepared for a pandemic + regular flu season 4. reporting for covid is all over the place in terms of accuracy, worldwide we’re at 121k infections, 66k recovered, 4k deaths.
source: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Anom
5. There are therapeutics for flu.
Thanks, it has pockets!
I do think the presence of a vaccine is a big factor, even if the vaccine doesn’t always work that well. And the flu is endemic, it’s already everywhere, we generally know how to deal with it. This is new, and we only know so much about it, and there is no vaccine and no COVID-19 equivalent of Tamiflu (yet). We will get this under control eventually, we’ll eventually have a vaccine and medicine approved to lessen the symptoms and shorten the duration, but until that happens, slowing the spread is the best way to manage the outbreak.
Anon
Fear of the unknown.
All the precautions people are taking for COVID-19 are things they should be doing for flu. People in the USA (probably worldwide) are positively STUPID when it comes to preventing the flu. Give it 5 years and the same idiots who are buying all the toilet paper and gallons of hand sanitizer will be whining about how they aren’t gonna get a COVID-19 vaccine because it always makes them sick or some crap.
Ses
“Give it 5 years and the same idiots who are buying all the toilet paper and gallons of hand sanitizer will be whining about how they aren’t gonna get a COVID-19 vaccine because it always makes them sick or some crap.”
This. You’ve absolutely nailed it – many of the people I know who are acting the most extreme about this are the same people who badmouth the flu vaccine.
Lyssa
I think to a large degree, it’s that we’ve already accounted for the risk of flu and accepted it. It’s sort of like the issue of cars verses planes – cars kill people every day, but we don’t (usually) think much about it because they’re just so normal. This is new, so we can’t just mentally work it in (and we don’t really know what it will do or where to “file” it).
But from a more public perspective, we have to consider that this just adds to whatever stresses are already out there – if a whole lot of people in total numbers get sick, we have to find care for all of them in addition to the care that we already need for the usual problems – and we just don’t have that much slack in the systems. That’s where the government/experts get legitimately worried.
cbackson
Ha, I was coming here to make the point about cars – we accept familiar risks, which is why many people are shocked to realize that more than 30,000 people die in car crashes annually and 2.2 million people are injured, with many of those injuries being life-threatening. Many, if not most people, know at least one person who has been killed in a car crash. And yet we don’t think of it as an emergency and there is little political will to address it even though we know a lot of what is necessary to reduce deaths.
Never too many shoes...
As an insurance lawyer, I agree plus a million. Driving is the most dangerous thing people do – and so many people do it carelessly, willingly, and constantly without a second though.
Anon
What do you mean, do what needs to be done to reduce deaths? A lot of the problems are not addressable by political or legal means. The main causes of fatalities are, in no particular order: lack of seatbelt use, alcohol (approximately 30% of motor vehicle deaths), speeding, riding a motorcycle, and interaction with large trucks. Other data show that rural areas and single-lane (each direction) roads are highly correlated with traffic fatalities: the per-person and per-million-miles vehicle deaths vary widely across states, with the highest numbers in the Mississippi Delta and states like Wyoming. (A lot of people in those areas survive the crash but die on the way to the hospital, or help takes far too long to arrive at the scene.) A substantial percentage of deaths are from a single car crash (53%), rather than involvement with other cars.
Of the 30,000 or so people who die every year in car crashes, approximately 800 are younger than 12. (Car accidents are only a leading cause of death in children because so few children die.)
So, pray tell, what can we do to reduce deaths? We’ve had drunk-driving, speeding, and seatbelt laws on the books for years. We can’t exactly ban travel on single-lane roads, prevent people from driving in rural areas far from hospitals and ambulances, outlaw night driving, ban motorcycles, or ban large trucks (perhaps a massive infrastructure upgrade could relegate them to their own lane with jersey barriers on each side, but I don’t see other options). We could change the CAFE standards so that sedans are not ever smaller and lighter (which has the two-fold effect of making them less safe, all other things being equal, and pushing people towards SUVs, which makes other drivers less safe). The 800 or so deaths a year of children under 12 are heartbreaking, but that number probably is not getting much smaller, and even cutting it in half (somehow) would not substantially change motor vehicle deaths.
The reality is that a small number of really terrible drivers are the ones causing the majority of the problems. The average (median) driver gets into a below-average (mean) number of accidents and receives a below-average (mean) number of tickets.
anon
There are laws (phone use is not even restricted in some states, or just recently in others), and then there is enforcement. Is still see so many people texting on busy Bay Area highways, it’s scary. And part of that is funding law enforcement, but another part of it is societal change. Our attitudes to smoking and wearing seatbelts have changed (even though compliance with seatbelt laws is way behind other countries).
Anonymous
“So, pray tell, what can we do to reduce deaths?”
Like a million things? You realize some other places like Sweden have managed to get to ZERO child traffic deaths? They have mandatory rear-facing in carseats until age 4. Forward facing is legal in many US states at age 1.
Most European countries have WAY tougher requirements for driver training before you can get a licence. And reducing speed in residential areas, like to 30km/hr, can save thousands of lives.
cbackson
Reducing speed limits, particularly on surface streets, and strictly enforcing them, including via camera; strictly enforcing distracted driving laws; ACTUALLY PASSING distracted driving laws; ensuring that we enforce (including through police activity and through appropriate legal penalties) our DUI laws; and perhaps the most important: not throwing up our hands and saying, “Gosh, nothing can be done.”
And by the way, as a person who lost a loved one in a car crash, I consider all of those deaths heartbreaking, not just the deaths of children.
anonymous (OP)
Thanks all for the responses! I remember SARS, bird flu, etc and have never seen this level of precaution taken before. I’m worried but hoping all of this helps.
Anonymous
SARS was better controlled because it was more severe but not as easily spread. This seems less severe but more easily spread
Never too many shoes...
SARS was, for whatever reason, really bad in Toronto. 483 people contracted it and 44 died (mostly healthcare workers). My father was in the hospital at the time and it was really difficult as visiting was very tightly controlled and you were not allowed in with even a slightly elevated temperature screening. It was chaos – the vibe is a bit more chill this time around.
anon a mouse
There were similar precautions taken for SARS in Asia, but it didn’t explode as much in the US.
One reason this is so concerning is that our flu severity has been more or less consistent for years, and the hospital capacity takes that into account. Yes, the flu is terrible, but if you need to be hospitalized with the flu, you could assume the hospital will have room. The biggest risk with Covid is that so many people get sick all at once that there literally are not enough beds/respirators/doctors to help those patients or any other patients, including those with the flu. Already health care workers have been exposed and are in self-quarantine, which further diminishes capacity. The picture out of Italy is horrifying.
Anonymous
This. CBC has a good article about how this is a key problem the Italians are having. Like 10% of cases require ICU which is straining ICU resources badly. Canada’s focus seems to be shifting to ‘flattening the curve’ which focuses more on slowly any transmission so it spread more slowly and hospitals don’t get overwhelmed vs assuming that it can be contained.
Annnon
I don’t get the mass hysteria. So many more people die from cancer, heart disease, car crashes etc. every year and no cares about that.
Anon
This is not a hysteria. Germany has conceded that some 70% of its population will become infected. What makes you think the virus will be any less transmissible in the US?
Anonymous
If you don’t get it by now, I doubt anyone can explain it to you.
Anon
Keep watching Fox News.
anon
This is taking a challenge seriously and taking the steps that medical experts recommend. Hysteria is “exaggerated or uncontrollable emotion or excitement, especially among a group of people”.
Anonymous
Neither did Milan’s mayor a week ago when he was tweeting that ‘Milan never closes’. Now they are literally running out of ICU beds in Italy because 10% of cases need ICU. That’s in addition to the people in ICU because it’s been a rough flu season.
Anon
There’s a very real possibility that this will infect 30% or so of the US population this season. At at 3% mortality rate, that would kill about 3 million people. That’s about as many people die annually from all causes combined.
Right now it’s not at that level. The steps being taken now are to try to keep it that way. But there’s a serious risk that this is going to kill more people this year than any of the causes you mentioned.
anne-on
SARS and bird flu were less ‘successful’ viruses because they killed their hosts (us) too quickly OR didn’t transmit with casual contact as easily. So they had higher death rates but lower transmission rates (people less likely to get sick from things like casual social content, or if they got sick they were VERY sick so quickly that they weren’t out walking around shedding the virus like they are now).
Anon
Part of it is that this flu seems to be more virulent / easily caught than the others, particularly because someone may have it for weeks before it is evident so it is very difficult to track. On a plus side, although our government leaders are not preparing for this nearly as much as they should, local hospitals and medical providers see writing on the wall and talk to one another throughout the world and, at least the better led facilities, are preparing for higher capacity in the coming weeks.
Anonymous
Please stop calling this the “flu”!
Bay Area Pros/Cons?
Bay Area ladies — should my family move to the Bay Area from our current MCOL city? Our HHI would stay about the same or maybe go down a bit. The reason for the move would be an exciting and unique job opportunity.
But the high cost of living is SO scary to me. So, is it really that bad? Does the good outweigh the downsides? Thanks so much for any input and honestly reassurance because I feel like — this move is happening and I need to get on board. :)
Anonymous
Nope
Cat
You need to run the numbers right? Have you looked at rent? Unless your current HHI is extremely high for a MCOL city… might you end up actually losing money or dipping into savings? Is this meant to be short term and step towards a way-more-highly-compensated role? What is Plan B if that doesn’t happen?
Wendy
No, this would not be intended to be short term. We would run the budget to make sure we can run in the black, for sure. Our HHI is extremely high for our MCOL city, e.g., our mortgage is 1x our HHI rather than 2-2.5x. The rental properties I’ve seen in the Bay Area would be about 40-45% of our take home pay.
Anon
Stop playing coy and provide numbers if you want good advice. How old are you? What is your HHI? How many people are in your house? What are your long-term financial goals?
anon
There are differences within the Bay area, Berkeley is way more affordable than Palo Alto. Another thing to consider is whether you would personally be ok renting for the time you are her (not a huge deal in the cheaper parts), or would want to buy (very tough). If renting, can you time your arrival so that you aren’t competing with the start of the college term?
Anon
While Berkeley is more affordable than Palo Alto, I would still not call housing in Berkeley that would be big enough and in a nice enough area to house a family “affordable”. Not that you said that, but just to add that clarification so the OP doesn’t think a place like Berkeley would be an affordable-relative-to-her experience option. But of course, she can look on Redfin or Craigslist and see for herself. (And OP, when trying to get an idea, ALWAYS look at the prices housing here actually sold for!!! The listing prices often mean nothing!!)
Wendy
Definitely would plan to rent — this is the plan that even opened this up as a possibility, buying would not be possible.
Anon
There is no way in the world I would move to any HCOL city, yet alone a VHCOL area like the Bay Area, without a substantial increase in income. Unless you are highly, highly paid already and have tons of extra income, it will just be such a huge cut to your standard of living.
If it must happen, any chance that you and your husband can agree to a limited timer period? Like, we will move for 3 years and then return to our MCOL city
Anon
+1. You need to get a big salary bump. My husband got a bump of $40k for the same type of job when we moved.
anne-on
+1. You need a BIG salary bump to make this happen. Experience with cities, and small spaces (and ability to live in them happily should not be underestimated).
Anonymous
I feel like I would need to double my HHI to have any chance at parity if I moved from my MCOL city to anywhere commutable to the Bay Area. And I already have a high salary, so it is just how far a step back in QOL are we willing to take in terms of commuting time and that’s not factoring in private school cost (I have no idea if public schools are decent; in my city, public schools are spotty but not so spotty to pay $25K/kid for private school).
Anon
Sorry to say this, but yes, it is really that bad. If someone was going to move here and their income would go up, I would still caution that it likely will not go up enough, but if your income could actually go down but sorry, hard no. The housing among other things is just insane. There are a couple of suburbs with good schools (not even by tech land) we are trying to buy a 3-4 bedroom house in at the moment b/c our 2 bedroom 1 bath with 2 kids is not cutting it anymore, & we are looking at $1.5 mm at a minimum. Sure, if you look on Redfin every now and then you see something in our target areas that sold for less than that but a) the competition for those lower ones was likely FIERCE & I wouldn’t be surprised if they won by doing all cash or 2) when they describe something as a “contractor special”, they mean it. (Also, it is really hard to get contractors here b/c of all of the fire rebuild so don’t think you can buy a fixer upper unless you are really handy or patient).
Of course, there are lower cost suburbs, but then you are trading in some other factor like a monster commute (then why bother coming here, your life will be eaten up by that), higher crime, or worse schools.
The funny thing is I don’t even hate it here as much here as I sound and we make it work for Reasons, but if I was starting all over I would not move here. I know many people with families that are actually trying to figure out how to get out.
Wendy
Thanks, I really appreciate your perspective. Can I ask what your “Reasons” are or are they too personal to be shared? :)
Anon
Ha, well some are too personal and/or would potentially out who I am if anyone on here knows me. But a generic but big one is we bought our current home several years ago so at least we have been super lucky to ride the housing upturn with that & that at least allows us to even consider the suburban houses I mention. If we were entering the market fresh right now I don’t know that we would even have a prayer. But, who knows! Maybe the coronavirus macro domino effect will help take care of that. But even we wistfully look at houses in other cities and think “what if…” from time to time.
Anon
There are lots of great parts about living here – natural beauty, great food, diversity, culture, etc etc. However, unless you have enough money to live close to work, which so many of us don’t, it’s not worth it. I’m a Bay Area native and my husband and I live here now, but we’re planning to relocate to a lower COL state this year. I’ll really miss Yosemite, Tahoe, the beach, and other places, but living 1.5 hours away from work to have a semi-decent apartment in a decent town has taken too much of a toll. I might think differently if we could afford to live very close to work. DO NOT move without running the numbers for your situation.
Wendy
Thanks for the perspective. Can I ask what you consider “close to work” and what is the cost to live close to work? I’m seeing rental properties that might be suitable for families for around $7-8k/month right in and around Palo Alto, does that sound about right?
Anon
I would consider 20 minutes door-to-door close to work. That would have cost me AT LEAST $3-5K per month in my area, but we moved farther out and pay $2300/month for a two-bedroom, which is a screaming deal for this relatively nice area. The price you quoted sounds about right in Palo Alto, maybe less if you’re lucky.
anon
that sounds about realistic. Plan for everything else being similarly more expensive than what you are used to. Eating out, entertainment, kids activities, services. It’s a tough choice.
Anon
Yes. OP you mention family, I’m assuming you have kids. Are they still an age where they need full time childcare? That would be the biggest other expense besides housing where I think things here are significantly more than MCOL.
anon
OP, you mentioned earlier that you were looking at housing in Palo Alto for up to $8K per month and housing would likely be up to 45% of your HHI. So maybe you’re making $250K/year? With a family? So maybe a nanny share for an additional $4000/month (based on nanny share costs in Berkeley and Oakland and I would expect Palo Alto to be higher) or summer camp and aftercare which is so expensive here. My recommendation would be to do your research and have strong reasons for making this sacrifice financially. Moving can be difficult without a huge change in quality of life.
For me, I’m from the Bay Area and I love the outdoors and access to it year round, the culture, the theater and art scene, the food, the diversity, the beauty of the coast, the weather, my job, living near my family, my community of friends and colleagues, and the fresh produce. DH and I are also pretty frugal, we make way more than what I am guessing you make, drove 25 year old cars for years to afford a down payment and still drive one of those cars, commute an hour each way to work, roast our own coffee, cook a ton at home (mostly vegetarian), and we and most of our friends who grew up here too wonder how anyone affords anything. We say we feel barely middle class here and I know we do very well.
On the downside, the issues around housing and the homeless are difficult and heartbreaking/numbing to encounter constantly, my commute is very expensive and can be horrible some days, my house is small and is somewhat of a fixer for costing over $1M, and the traffic is often so bad that I don’t take advantage of things I want to do (like 2 hour traffic into the city or Pt Reyes on a Sunday will change my plans), tickets to theater, ballet, etc. are pricey, and I often feel like my larger community is too exhausted from work and lives too far apart. Not to mention we have a worsening fire season every year.
I would want to retire early, send my kid to private college, and buy a vacation home or a small vacation condo in a VHCOL city instead.
Anonymous
So, the overall job prospects are better in the Bay Area. With so many companies there is almost always an exciting new opportunity. However, you have to have the same mindset as folks who move to New York. Everything here is more expensive, but there is also so much to do!
Anonymous
There is so much to do, but it’s also expensive and logistically challenging. We attend far more arts and cultural events now that we live in a reasonably priced and accessible mid-sized city than we ever did when we lived in a major metro area.
Anon
It’s really that bad. Do NOT do it without a substantial increase in income.
Anon
No way.
Anonymous
You don’t need reassurance; you need a real, clear-eyed plan.
How are you going to adjust your current housing and lifestyle to live in a VHCOL area? What is your backup if the fantastic job goes away? What is the tolerance you have for a commute, in terms of length and stressful driving? Is the job somewhere that public transit is a realistic option?
BTW, Palo Alto is one of the most expensive parts of the Bay to live in and the commute in that area is horrendous even by our standards.
I love living here and have no plans to move, but it is VERY VERY EXPENSIVE and crowded. Unless you are getting a huge income bump with good job security, you are going to be making some hard choices. Looking for reassurance or just hoping it’ll all work out is how people end up going broke and moving back to the Midwest after six months.
Anon
Just as one data point, we lived in Palo Alto on a HHI of $250k with no kids, and now we live in a small Midwest city on a HHI of $175k with a kid in daycare ( which costs $20k/year pre-tax) and we feel MUCH MUCH MUCH wealthier here. In the Bay Area, we were objectively doing fine, in that we could pay rent and buy food and stuff like that and we had an emergency fund, but owning property seemed so out of reach and our taxes and daily costs were so high that we couldn’t really get ahead on savings goals. Also all of our friends were buying (most with family help, fwiw) and it was hard not to feel like we were “behind.” Now that we’re in the Midwest we own our house outright, save a ton for retirement, travel way more, spend as much money as we feel like on going on restaurants and entertainment, pay for the kid in daycare and save for their college, and still find ourselves with money leftover every month. It’s hard to explain how expensive the Bay Area is to someone who hasn’t live there. I found the cost of living there incredibly suffocating, personally.
anon
I completely agree with this, just from the other way around. I rent with DH, no kids. We live pretty frugally, both work in research (not paid that well), and were lucky twice so far with finding a rental at a good deal. I know that others here have a very different lifestyles, my whole neighborhood is driving to their ski cabins with fancy hybrids and electric cars, meanwhile we’re here with our ridiculously small clown car that we bought used, that has duct tape on it. We have cheap hobbies, which leave enough money to travel, no plans to have kids while living here. I am completely fine not owning the place where I live. I feel like that mindset plus the fact that most of our social group are in a similar situation helps me to not feel poor. OP, this is a consideration that makes such a difference.
Small Law Partner
I can’t imagine it being worth it. I used to live in the Bay Area and moved to LA (westside) in part to save money. And we save many thousands more a month by living in the most expensive part of Los Angeles as compared to a meh part of the Bay Area. We bought a place here that would have cost literally double in an equivalent part of the Bay Area. That is how insane the Bay Area is.
I also didn’t care for living there, but I’m picky. Weather was too cold, culture is too fast-paced/competitive atmosphere compared to my SoCal motherland, city is too cold/dreary/dirty, peninsula is too suburban, marin is too homogenous/suburban, Berkeley/Oakland is pretty good but too far away if you work on the peninsula, so it felt extra crazy to spend so much. If you really liked it, that could be worth it, but there are other places that cost less that are as nice or nicer.
Anon
Okay..thought I’d add my perspective as we just did this exact thing last year. We moved from the Midwest to the East Bay because…well…we wanted to. We were sick of winter, lack of diversity, and the closed-mindedness of so many people, and have always wanted to live here, so–this makes it sound super easy—we made it work with our jobs, bought a house, and moved. It easy because of several factors: (1) our HHI is $425K; (2) we had enough down payment to buy a $1.3M house; and (3) we gave ourselves a year to find a community we liked and to buy said house. We made 5 offers before our offer was accepted, and we were always in a multiple offer situation, usually with all-cash buyers. And you know what? We don’t regret it one bit. Our children are thriving, we have found a wonderful community, and we feel like every penny more that we spend out here vs our old life is 100% worth it. So hey, sure, it’s possible to do. But you need to understand that it takes serious cash and dedication.
Nesprin
Oh man, the bay area is so expensive. It’s hard to really imagine how bad COL is here- when we moved up, we spent a weekend searching and were nearly in tears by the end since my 50k starter salary wouldn’t stretch to anything livable. Please do take a look at realtor or craigslist and realize that homes are going fast at eye wateringly high prices. I now make double that and live in a rural part of east bay which is incredible (FYI we got our house at list price because we made a no contingency offer the day after the 1st open house). The benefits of the bay area are a thriving job market, diversity, active city life and great restaurants, museums and shopping, and beautiful natural parks.
Anonymous
Inspired by the post above about WFH – I’ve been thinking about upping my home office game and I think I’m ready to pull the trigger. Those who have a great home office set up, what works best for you? Did you get your monitors/printer/any other equipment through your employer?
anon
We have a single monitor that works with any of the laptops in our family, as well as two mouses (based on personal preference). My husband has a keyboard, though I prefer to use my laptop keyboard. I have both a headset for calls, which I make through my computer not my personal phone. We have a designated desk, which is not terribly large. Everything gets put away when done. Most critical thing is a comfortable office chair.
Anonymous
I posted below, but at work I have a laptop, docking station and dual 24″ monitors (all dell products). I asked our IT people for how to duplicate at home and they had a standard handout/email, with links to our discount dell products website (I’m sure a lot of larger firms/companies have an employee dell discount). I ended up going with 20″ monitors at home, since they were significantly less than the 24″ monitors and it works great. I also got a docking station. A lot of people at my office have fancy ergonomic keyboards and a wireless mouse, so the storage room is filled with the “standard” keyboards and mice, so they just gave those items to me. I already had a dedicated office with a large desk. The two monitors and docking station cost me about $300 with taxes, shipping, etc. It was easy to set up (again,IT gave me a handout and there were instructions in the box with the docking station). Highly recommend if you can swing it cost and space wise.
anne-on
My office gives out laptops/peripherals/extra monitors if you can make a business case. I’m ok with my normal laptop. What I paid out of pocket for that is 100% worth it is the following: dedicated large desk (I like a sit/stand), good office chair, wireless mouse, reliable printer/scanner (Brother works great and ink isn’t a fortune), dedicated filing/office ‘stuff’ (in-boxes, corals for my pens/notes/headset/etc. – you can get really cute desk sets on amazon/target/office depot!), a clock, a small plant, a lamp, and my own headset. Extra bonus – a room with a door you can shut, though obviously this isn’t possible for everyone!
Leatty
My work does not supply any WFH equipment. Initially, I used a laptop with an extra screen, but that wasn’t a great set up. I transitioned to a desktop with dual monitors, and it has been SO much better. I also recently invested in a headset (Jabra evolve 75) since I’m on the phone a lot and the basic cell phone handset wasn’t working for me.
Minnie Beebe
I WFH full time, and have for a few years. I have a stand for my laptop (a metal, roughly u-shaped box that my laptop sits on top of, raising it a few inches above my desk) as well as a very large monitor. I use both my 15″ laptop screen and the secondary screen to work (if I had a smaller laptop, I’d probably want another screen and wouldn’t use the laptop screen.)
I have a standing desk, from IKEA (though I rarely stand, TBH.) An inexpensive USB headset for conference calls. Separate keyboard/mouse. It works for me. Zoom meetings with clients, Slack message/calls with internal folks – we’re nearly all remote at my company, so things are set up for all of us with that in mind.
Anon
It looks like Biden is cementing support and a broad coalition. What can we do to welcome Sanders voters into the fold and prevent division? I was originally a Warren supporter, but I’ve been surprised at how I’ve become more enthusiastic for Biden versus Sanders because I think that he is more poised to win than I thought. My concern is that Biden supporters are going to alienate Sanders supporters by accusing them of having been crazy conspiracy theorists in 2016 for highlighting the oft-reported media and superdelegate bias shown that year. I personally don’t feel that we’ve seen anything like that this year, but either way, I don’t believe that name calling or alienation is going to help them vote Democrat in the fall. Sanders supporters, what do you think will help promote unity? A progressive VP? Certain policies?
Wendy
Honestly, everyone should just vote for who they think will be the better President: Biden or Trump. The Biden v. Bernie fight is (practically) over, so clinging to that debate as if it’s still relevant serves no one. Biden made a very nice statement in his speech about welcoming Bernie supporters into his campaign, and to my knowledge he has NOT gone negative against Bernie (unlike the reverse, which has happened).
Biden’s focus should be on showing he is a better choice than Trump, to voters who may not be sure. If Bernie supporters can’t see that or don’t agree with it or are too focused on hurt feelings to vote for Biden over Trump, that’s a shame, but to me that’s not really an essential question.
Anon
To me, it is an essential question because I want to win. The only way we will win in a landslide victory in both the popular vote and the electoral college that Trump will not be able to protest against will be to bring in all the possible Democratic voters. I don’t want to throw my hands up and say “who cares“ and then face 4 more years of Trump.
Anon
I honestly think the Bernie ride-or-die, nobody-but-him folks are not that numerous and the election results are kind of speaking for themselves. If more people thought Bernie would be the better candidate to face Trump we’d see Bernie winning primaries. But we’re not seeing that. I do think Biden needs to pick a woman or person of color (or Kamala Harris!) as VP if at all possible. I was never excited by Klobuchar as a candidate and am not excited about her as VP but it’s a better choice than some he could make.
No matter what Biden does he is not going to make everyone happy. Remember that in 2016 we had people voting Green Party instead of voting for Hillary to defeat Trump. Or not voting. The purists in the left wing aren’t going to get excited about Biden no matter what. I look at them the way that I look at the 30 percent of people who have said Trump is doing a great job since the day he got into office: those folks are lost causes. The die-hard Bernie folks are going to stay die-hard and it’s unfortunate, but they may not vote for Biden. I would rather Biden spend time doing reach-out across the moderate factions of both parties because I think that’s where victory will come from. The extreme right and the extreme left are entrenched in their own positions and not likely to move.
Anonymous
100% this
Wendy
+1 this is what I was trying to say. Agree completely.
Anon
A lot of the very vocal online Bernie ride or die constituents are very young and idealistic, and in such a like-minded bubble that they can’t believe it didn’t go their way absent some conspiracy. But they’re not likely to vote anyway.
Anonymous
Certainly a progressive VP, adopting some of Bernie’s policies
Anonymous
+1
Anon
Maybe I’m in a bubble, but groups like r/JoeBiden and similar groups on Twitter are really putting out the message, “Welcome everyone and don’t gloat and especially don’t be an asshole to Bernie Supporters”. By and large, that seems to be what people are doing. I hope it stays that way. The campaign and more influential supporters seem to be replicating the “When they go low, we go high” tactic of 2016, which is wise, I think, considering how awful we know the general will be.
I hope Elizabeth Warren throws in with the Biden campaign soon. She’s excellent on the attack and will fill a needed hole when things do get ugly later. So is Kamala Harris. Focused, pointed attacks aren’t Joe’s strong suit.
Skipper
I was a Warren supporter, and I really resented the “okay, she’s out stump, so for my person RIGHT NOW” narrative that I encountered the minute she withdrew from the race. I think people need time to grieve their loss before we began scooping them up for “our side.” But, yes, a progressive VP would be a great move. I think a younger person who represents at least one demographic underrepresented in national politics but overrepresented among democratic voters is ideal. But, I want Joe to be smarter than John McCain: we need someone who is genuinely competent to run for president in four years and who is not only a member of a demographic but that represents that demographic’s interests.
Anon
I’m the OP and I agree. l STILL need time to mourn Warren.
lsw
I’ll hold my nose and vote for Biden if I have to in the general, but I’m voting Sanders in the primary. There’s absolutely no way to win me over. Biden is terrible. I was a Warren supporter all the way and I’m pretty surprised at any Warren supporter who moves over to Biden, due in large part to his terrible history with women and support of the Iraq war. He has also told his donors “nothing fundamental will change” if he’s elected and that’s awful. We need action NOW on climate change. We need to tax the wealthiest members of our society more (and I fully acknowledge and welcome that this will raise my own taxes). I am also not at all convinced that Biden can beat Trump in the general.
Anonymous
I’m to the right of Warren but supported her because I trusted her as a sensible pragmatic leader. I think Bernie is crazy, so I’m voting for Biden. I get you disagree but I’m not the only one.
Anon
+1. The vast majority of my female friends (all educated and affluent) were Warren supporters. I’d say we’ve gone 75-25 to Biden over Bernie. The media isn’t making up this narrative that many Warren supporters now support Biden.
anon
Yup. Most of my friends who are Warren supporters have gone to Biden. They were right of Warren but found her intellect and sensibility appealing. Biden fits that narrative much closer than Bernie.
Anonymous
All the Warren supporters I know are like myself, former HRC supporters who liked Warren even though she was slightly left of our views. Zero interest in Bernie.
Just by not endorsing Bernie, a lot of Warren supporters will go to Biden.
TrixieRuby
The data shows that Biden will will win against Trump–check websites 538 and realclearpolitics. Biden is a good guy, not perfect, but this will work out with him as he will surround himself with good people and stabilize our country on the world stage.
Anon
My boyfriend, who has voted Libertarian in every presidential election since he turned 18, is turning out for the Democratic primary so he can vote Biden, has already donated money to Biden, and will vote Biden in the general. FWIW.
Ellen
At least you have a boyfriend. It is this time, when we have issues with Corona Virus, that a boyfriend can be helpful to go shopping for us and deal with the public. I have to do everyting for myself, and am also responsible for taking care of my Grandma in the Bronx. So if your boyfriend is voting for Biden, great!
Anon
Biden is so much more electable than Bernie, and he should keep the House and might even get us the Senate too. What matters isn’t a national poll of all voters – you need to look at state by state polls and even polls by Congressional district. There are a LOT of House Democrats who represent districts Trump won in 2016 and there’s zero chance of those moderates keeping their seats with a socialist at the top of the ticket.
I am firmly convinced having Bernie as the nominee would cost us the House as well as the presidency.
anonandon
“electable” as in telling an auto worker “not to be a horse’s a*s” and “you’re full of sh*t”
“electable” as in audibly shushing his female aid when she tries to redirect him?
“electable” as in thinks he’s running for senate?
“electable” as in THREATENING TO SLAP A VOTER?
Yeah, this will play great in the general.
anonandon
Sources (for 1, 2, and 4): https://twitter.com/BoKnowsNews/status/1237387463246708736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1237387463246708736&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheslot.jezebel.com%2Fajax%2Finset%2Fiframe%3Fid%3Dtwitter-1237387463246708736%26autosize%3D1
For 3: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/joe-biden-speech-senate-south-carolina-democratic-primary-video-election-2020-a9356366.html
Anonymous
And yet people still like him way way more than Bernie.
Anon
Well, stuff like that is practically gospel when it comes out of Trump’s mouth, so I’m not sure why anybody would care.
Anon
Where do you live? I live in the Rust Belt and people are absolutely eating that video up. Uneducated white men here (which is the demographic that the nominee has to flip away from Trump to win the general) are especially enthusiastic about it. I’m not a huge fan of that kind of language myself, but Trump says far worse and “shushing” an aide is really not that scandalous! The way you’re clutching your pearls about it you’d think he told her “F*ck off, b1tch.”
With respect to #3, he does not “think” he’s running for Senate, he misspoke. Have you literally never said the wrong word? I certainly have many times and I’m 35 and don’t have a stutter.
Anon
This pearl-clutching nonsense is beyond ridiculous. Are you a Sanders supporter? Are you aware he’s done as many, if not more things, that folks find “problematic” including the way he dismissed Warren after one of the debates? I actually love what Biden’s doing. We don’t need someone who’s going to politely stand there with their hands folded and nod while some idiot blathers in their face. We need a scrapper, because the person we’re trying to get out of office is a scrapper who fights dirty. I can’t wait to see what happens when Biden and Trump face off in the debates!
Anonymous
Bernie needs to step back and do so gracefully, not like last time.
He and his supporters had a really good run this time, but it’s not their time yet. They need to tackle incremental changes in the interim.
Anonymous
I’m a Bernie supporter and frankly I agree. I supported Hillary in 2016, and he stayed in it way too long and I know many Bernie supporters that did not vote Blue as a result. He needs to endorse Biden early.
Anonymous
I’ve seen a lot of people commenting on how AOC’s political instincts are so on point — a week ago she started pivoting away from being a vocal Bernie for President supporter and instead has been talking against “savorism” and focusing on how the progressive movement is bigger than any one person, and focusing on how to get the goals of the movement accomplished. So smart.
Anonymous
This. Bernie supporters would be better off pivoting to supporting Biden and lobbying for a progressive VP pick who can be charged with ‘exploring all options’ to improve healthcare. COVID is a great moment to do this. Progressive VP then comes back (post-election) with M4A as the answer.
Anonymous
I’m a Sanders supporter, I will SPRINT to the polls to vote for Biden in November. It’s hard to say, I think I am demographically different than the majority of Sanders supporters. I do hang out on the political groups on Reddit quite a bit and read the discussions happening, and Sanders supporters have a problem with Biden’s potential dementia, voting record, and lack of support for Medicare For All. A strong progressive VP pick I think could go along way to courting supporters. I think their #1 issue is M4A and they are absolutely heartbroken that it’s not happening any time soon. But honestly, the truth is Sanders supporters don’t need to be courted, because they apparently do not vote…
PolyD
I think what some people also forget to consider is that if Sanders won the Presidency, he couldn’t just make M4A happen with a snap of his fingers. It would still take years and a lot of work.
But another Trump presidency could make sure M4A NEVER happens.
Anonymous
Exactly. And if Biden can help us keep the House. It might be a Biden presidency that can move M4A or a close facsimile forward.
Anon
Agree with PolyD. Whether it was Warren or Sanders in office, M4A was never going to happen because it requires congress to make it happen. People need to learn to evaluate campaign promises with a more pragmatic/practical eye.
For me, POTUS is all about Supreme Court nominees and international diplomacy.
Anonymous
(I’m the Sanders supporter above). True, good points, and Biden is reliable on those fronts. I would also say, Sanders supporters overlook that Biden is currently to the left of HRC, who was to the left Obama. If he is the standard bearer for the party, then the party has moved demonstrably to the left, and although I am much farther to the left than that, I can accept this as progress.
PolyD
Yes, judges are HUGE! Not physically, always, but you know. And not just the Supreme Court, Trump, well really McConnell is installing right-wing ideologues all throughout the judiciary.
Anonymous
2 friends and I are scheduled to go on a weekend trip this weekend flying from JFK (I live in NYC) to visit another friend in a city where there is a little but not a ton of COVID. We are all youngish and healthy. I’m struggling with whether it is an overreaction to consider not going. I’m not concerned about contracting it in my destination but rather airport/airplane exposure and the general idea that social distancing is what we should be doing to help. Any thoughts?
Anon
I would cancel. Three TSA agents in the Bay Area were just diagnosed with COVID-19, but besides that, there’s the risk your flight will get cancelled due to the collapsing demand.
Anonymous
JFK has/had a high number of travelers from the most affected areas and is/was one of the few airports designated to accept travelers repatriating.
Anonymous
If you live in NYC, you are in a city that has more than a little COVID, so I don’t think you are putting yourself at greater risk.
Anonymous
Yes, but the question is also about social distancing & the risk of exposing others.
Anon
But if you’re from an area with a lot of disease, isn’t it bad to travel because you might spread it to others?
Anon
Yes.
Anonymous
I would go. I would not eat on the airplane, not use the airplane bathroom, hand sanitize everything. When in the airport, leave a graceful social distance between yourself and others.
I would expect that your flight will NOT be full, so to the extent you can, put some distance between yourself and others on the plane.
Consider doing something to minimize how much you touch your face while in the airport and on the plane (I’d say wear a mask, but save those for people that need them to contain germs). maybe a scarf? or put gloves or mittens on your hands to mind you not to touch you face.
Wash your hands every time you pass by a sink..
Advice for an unemployed person
So the startup I was working for closed down, and I am now unemployed. I have savings and good job prospects, and I’ve re done my resume and thought about what I want to do and started reaching out to my network. I planned a trip with friends and will probably go visit others.
All that being said, it’s probably going to be a little while until I get another job. And I am not at all good with unstructured, free time. Of course there are things I want to do like watch tv shows and read books and lose the weight I gained stress eating, preferably through another hobby of mine. But I get depressed easily when I’m bored or not occupied. I’m going to start volunteering at a local place, and make a routine out of going to the gym at a particular (early-ish) time- any other recommendations for how to deal with this time period?
Anonymous
I recently went through a very similar time, and I found that blocking out my “work day” was really helpful. When I didn’t have explicit plans, I spent on hour a day on health/fitness, two on tasks related to my job hunt, three on volunteer tasks, one on household tasks/errands, and one hour goofing off.
Anonymous
Try lists. A list of all the adulting things you need to do like find cheaper insurance, all of the deferred medical things you should do, a list of friends to catch up with, and a list of all the tourist things in your area you have never done.
anon
I recently had 3 months off between finishing school and starting a new job. I created multiple lists of things that I always wanted to do when I had free time. I set up my doctor’s appointments, dental work, I took long walks, I joined the Wing, I started a hobby (sewing), set a book challenge and spent time goofing off. I still didn’t accomplish everything I wanted to do, but it was really helpful
Anon
It helped me to keep track of the jobs I applied to, interviews I had, informational interviews, teleforums, etc. Then I made myself exercise almost every day. These things are to be treated like a job, i.e get yourself started in job hunting, exercise, household work, etc., by 9 am, and have it wrapped up by the evening.
Advice for an unemployed person
This is all making me feel better. I definitely have enough gym/job hunting/errands/etc to fill up a 9-5 day, and then I’ll actually have evening completely off for the first time in my life to do the rest of my stuff
Anony
Agree with all the above posters… make a ‘work day’ schedule and stick to it. I was unemployed on-and-off over the course of 4 years (none of them my choice) and what I learned early on was that I needed to stick to a precise schedule or I got super depressed. I did something like this – 8-9: exercise/shower/get ready, 9-9:15: coffee break and snack, 9:15-11: job hunt, 11-12: run an errand/get out of the house, 12-1: lunch break and plan dinner, 1-2: hobby, 2-4: job hunt/research potential companies/surf Linked In; 4-5: chores then done at 5 and free to do whatever I wanted. I literally had this written out and it really helped save my sanity.
MJ
My advice is to make your goals for the week, and stick to them. Need to send out 10 CLs and applications? Do that. Need to apply to 20 online jobs? Do that. Need to attend 3 networking events and 2 informational interview coffees? Do that. And if you’ve exhausted what you can do for the day (have applied to all the possible jobs in your geo that are posted, have done all your networking), then turn the job search off. You can spiral into “this is not working” when really you should be in “this is not working YET” mode.
Separately – don’t wear only athleisure. You may gain more weight than you know. (Good for you for settling into the gym routine).
Enlist a good friend to be your cheerleader and tell her what you need. Some days it’s a pep talk, some days it’s commiseration, some days it’s “let’s not talk about it.”
Practice spinning what happened re startup in a neutral, positive tone until you can say it with it just rolling off your tongue, easily and naturally. This will go a long way toward getting rehired.
Finally, now that this too shall pass, and it will f with your self-esteem, and you will feel like you’re doing so much work and going into an online vortex….know that it’s a numbers game, you have good skills and you WILL work again.
dementia on the executive board
I’m the secretary of a non-profit board. Our chair, who is widely liked, has dementia. This isn’t arm chair diagnosing on my part: he’s said as much, and, frankly, his symptoms are pretty plain. I’m concerned he’s driving our organization into the ground, and I’m not sure how I should respond to all this.
He runs four-hour-long meetings that are made so by his non-sequiturs and inability to stick to an agenda. When people attempt to bring him back on track, he shouts over them, often by reading an irrelevant portion of our bylaws. He frequently floats ideas that clearly violate our organizational rules. When someone explains why we can’t do what he wants, he rambles about what he perceives as the corruption of prior leadership. He has many friends on the board but is increasingly becoming alienated from them because he becomes angry when corrected, however gently. When I try to approach him about administrative details relevant to my duties, he frequently says contradictory things about the same issue (i.e., do and do not do this thing) and doesn’t remember conversations even twenty-four hours later.
I have been endlessly vacillating among 1) quitting both the position and the organization and going to work for others with a similar mission, 2) staying on my role and attempting to mitigate the harm he’s causing even as he goes around telling people I’m terrible, 3) trying to engineer his removal from office.
I’m relatively early in my career in a related field, so I’m worried about the impact any of these will have on my professional life. I’m also worried about the fate of the organization: it’s one whose mission I find extremely vital and whose work isn’t being fully performed by any other group in our area.
Y’all have any advice?
anony
How long have you been on the Board?
Have you talked with anyone else on the Board about your concerns?
How long has the Chair been in place, and on the Board?
People joke about having Dementia, so be very careful about what you say/do if you think your actions could impact your career. You mention he is well liked….. and your tone suggests you are a bit young and ?inexperienced to be deciding you need to step in and try to “mitigate the harm” or “engineer his removal”.
I remember well when I was young…. and confident… and a bit, clueless.
Anonymous
I’ve been on the board for five years. I’ve spoken to several people who share my concerns. It’s a large board, so it’s hard to get a statistically accurate read on things. But at the very least people are aware of the public face of things, and there’s a great deal of resentment about the length of our meetings. The chair and I have both held our positions for a year.
He is not joking: he’s mentioned medical testing and prescriptions he’s taking.
I am well-liked–far more well-liked than he is at this point. I am 40, but I’ve recently changed careers, hence the “early in my career.”
anne-on
Leave! Leave now! You cannot change this man, this is above your pay grade and for the board to deal with. Keep your head down, do what you can, and interview!
lsw
+1 – if the board hasn’t intervened already, they aren’t likely to.
Anonymous
OP here: I’m not his secretary. I’m the board’s secretary, an elected officer and a volunteer.
Anonymous
I took it as a volunteer position that she has. Definitely agree to leave ASAP esp as he has numerous friends – your 3rd option could be quite tricky. Definitely quit. You don’t want to be the last one off the sinking ship. I would just tell him that due to career or family circumstances (you pick), you are unable to continue in the Role.
anon
me too, like the recording secretary of the board, not an assistant.
Anonymous
Yes get him voted out.
Anon
I’m slightly confused – are you also on the board, or is this a position where you work for the board but are not on the board? For the board I am on, “Secretary” is an executive position on the board. If that is the case, I absolutely think you have an obligation to broach this for a board-wide vote, because, as a board member, you do have a fiduciary obligation to the organization. I think this answer is different if you are not a board member, but are paid staff.
Anonymous
I am an elected, executive member, not an administrative assistant.
Anon
Thanks for the clarification; it seems like a bunch of comments along the same lines got posted all at the same time. In that case, I think there are several considerations:
1) You say that this is both your and his first year holding these executive positions. When is his term up as chair – did he just start in January? Depending on his term expiration, you could just wait it out and let him roll off of the exec committee? If it’s a mid-year term expiration, I would hold out and make sure a good chair is nominated for Chair for the next term. Volunteer for the nominating committee if you have one.
2) Do your bylaws provide for term limits for board members in general? (I.e. my board does three year terms to the board, with a max limit of two terms, so six years, and you’re off of the board.) Term limits are important for a lot of reasons – including scenarios like this. If your bylaws don’t have this, might be time for a revision.
3) Is your organization a working board, or is the organization run mainly by staff with the board being more advisory? Maybe staff can take on some roles to limit his involvement if there is a paid staff.
4) Usually bylaws provide some mechanism for members to put things to the board for a vote even where the chair refuses to act, so you may want to take a look at that and see if there is anything you can do to mitigate the damage you feel is being done. This doesn’t mean you have to coordinate his removal from office, it could just mean that you propose ad hoc committees for certain things/areas so that the power shifts off of him and onto other people for certain tasks (i.e. if you think he’s damaging fundraising opportunities, set up an ad hoc fund development committee and have four or five board members (excluding him) sit on that committee – it would be hard for him to object to establishing a committee without looking ridiculous, but then it helps limit his involvement because the committee can just discuss and present a recommendation to the board after decisions are made, all things are considered, etc.) It sounds like you have a large board, so this might be feasible.
5) I would check out Marla Cornelius’s website and writings. She is an expert on non-profit organization and leadership, and I find her resources to be helpful. I, along with four others from my board, attended a six-week training with her put on by a large foundation in my city and she was excellent for helping us put things into perspective, understand a board member’s obligations, etc. She also does consulting, so if that is something you could pitch to your board to have her come in for an evaluation or for a talk or something, maybe getting some outside perspective from an expert could help.
Good luck! I would say don’t give up on it yet if you think the mission is important; try to find another way to make it work. You might be the future Chair that the organization needs!
Anonymous
OP here: I’m the elected secretary and have been on this board for five years. The treasurer, who has been on the board and in her role for over a decade, shares my concerns but is very non-confrontation. She seems to be engineering our chair’s departure from office by a one woman campaign of heavy sighing. The vice-chair is a whole separate bag of mess, but suffice it to say she’s trying to take advantage of the situation to do things that violate both our bylaws and are more generally unethical. There’s a lot of ill-will right now within the board and the organization more broadly, but it’s not focused into action. I feel as an executive of the organization, I’m in a position to organize that opposition. I also believe that if we don’t take action in the near term, the organization is positioned to fail within the year.
Or I could just quit, get a good night’s sleep, and go on with my life.
Anonymous
I think your last sentence answers your own question.
Anon
It is your responsibility as a board member to take action if you think a fellow board member, particularly the chair, is unfit. If you can’t do that, you should leave the board. But the right thing to do is to take action.
You and the rest of the board can be sued for not fulfilling your responsibilities and obligations.
TrixieRuby
Boy, this is a tough situation. I bet you have an Executive Committee–would it be possible to meet w/o the chair to discuss this situation? Is there anything in your by-laws about how to remove an officer? And, when is his term over? If his term is over soon–within a year–let it go. If it is longer, then you have to do something. Also, if you offered the Chair a retirement party, recognition, an award, etc., would he bite? You and your fellow Board members are responsible and liable here, so inaction has consequences. Do you have Board insurance? Have a look at your State Attorney General Laws so you can see what your state has to say about nonprofit Boards and incompetence. Good Luck
Anonymous
Has anyone had a direct conversation with the chair to advise him that it is time to step down? (Maybe a group of people presenting a united front if he’ll even remember the conversation.)
But I would just leave.
Anon
I have a longer post in moderation above, but I agree with Anon at 12:00 that you have an obligation. As a board member you are a steward of the public trust – non-profits don’t pay taxes, and board members are there to make sure that those tax-free funds are being used properly to further the charitable mission.
Anonymous
Has anyone approached the chair about resigning? Although it is unlikely to be taken well, I wonder if it has been raised directly. It seems like this should happen at some point.
Senior Attorney
Look at the by-laws and see what they provide about removing a board member. If it looks like this is something you can make happen, then you would be doing the organization a huge service to take action.
BUT… if you don’t think you would be successful (if you are going to shoot at the King, you can’t miss), then your best course of action would be to leave ASAP.
Senior Attorney
BTW I have been through something similar where the Board removed an Executive Director (somewhat easier than removing a Chair, I suspect), and the board retained counsel to help and it was invaluable. If you or any fellow board members are willing or able to take that step it might be helpful to at least have a consultation with counsel about your options.
Anon
Hello! I am curious what others on this board would do. I am 9 weeks pregnant and am planning to accept a new job offer. I had a conversation with the HR manager and she gave me all the details on the maternity leave as well as eligibility and I feel good about where that stands. She assured me she would keep the conversation confidential and I do trust her – but that being said, would you all still share this with the hiring manager before joining? I will likely end up starting right around 12 weeks. I am completely torn as I want to share this for the sake of transparency but it is also early and I don’t want it to sound like this was something I was concealing and am only sharing once I have the offer.. which I guess is technically what I was doing. I also think I may be making a bigger deal of this.
Anon
You need to discuss it to get in writing that maternity leave will apply to you, but ask her to keep it in confidence. 9 weeks along is enough to inform after you’ve gotten the offer that you’re pregnant, please keep it confidential cause you’re not announcing, but want to make sure the policy applies to you, as you’re not protected from firing by federal law (hopefully you are by state law).
TrixieRuby
I once had a new hire colleague with 6 staff disclose the day before she started that she was pregnant. she created an enormous amount of ill will and anger. While this was unfair, this was a small organization with few people on the bench, and she did nothing to mitigate her news. It would have been useful for her to say something about working hard until the day I go on leave, stay in touch while on leave, so excited about this new job, will work with all of you to mitigate any disruptions, etc.
I know these types of statements are not necessary or required, but it did not help her that people were so pissed off right from the start. I would think about how to disclose to your new work family so as to build connections and bridges.
Anon
Trixie, people on FMLA are not allowed to “stay in touch.” Now, your colleague was not on FMLA, based on her tenure, but the expectation is that people on medical leave are not available.
Anon
Nooo, don’t try to normalize staying in touch while out on leave. When you’re out you should be completely out.
Never too many shoes...
We had an assistant start with an undisclosed pregnancy and then she took the maximum allowable maternity leave of 18 months. Do not be that woman. Everyone hates her.
Anon
So…can someone brief me more generally on what the etiquette is around job hunting during a woman’s child bearing years? I am actively job searching and actively trying to get pregnant.
Anon
Continue to job hunt; pregnancy can take a very long time. Know that if you are in the U.S., you are not entitled to leave unless you’ve been at the job for a year. If you are pregnant when you get a job offer, negotiate for leave before you accept. If you struggle to get anything in writing about leave, that tells you everything you need to know: don’t work there.
Also in Ontario
What is the alternative to “being that woman”? I believe you live in Ontario – me too. A woman does not have to discuss her pregnancy in an interview or disclose at any time during the hiring process, which I’m assuming the assistant didn’t. And if she did, she probably wouldn’t have gotten hired. Should she have just not looked for new positions when pregnant? Not have taken the matt leave that she is entitled to? Discussed her pregnancy and put herself at risk of being passed over even if she was the most qualified candidate (which I assume she was)? I’m really sad to hear another woman talk like you are, and I’d like to know what you’d recommend she should have done differently.
Anonymous
Please. You’re in TO. No wonder she took the max leave. Unless you’re a high salaried worker childcare in TO is impossible to find and super expensive if it can be found. I’d take the max leave to in her shoes. You’re not paying her salary – employment insurance does that so hire a replacement for 18 months and it’s a non-issue.
Marilla
1000000%. Really not hard to hire and train someone to cover for 18 months, and seriously good luck to anyone looking for childcare for the 12-18 month range here.
Anon
I have a lot of sympathy for very small businesses, but I don’t think you’re working at one. Your company should know how to handle maternity leave, and it’s not the job of a freaking assistant* to change up her life because your company doesn’t know how to manage its operations.
*Nothing against being an assistant, but people who make ten times what she makes are the ones who should be figuring this out, not her.
Anon
FWIW, I was 14w pregnant when I started my new job. I announced shortly after starting, and I’ll be taking the maximum leave that is available to me. I’m in the US, and my company offers 14 weeks (to all employees including full-time hourly workers). I’d take more if it were available. I’m the new general counsel of a publicly traded technology company.
Didn’t announce prior to starting because I figured there was no reason for me to give them more notice than I would have given were I already in the job; I’d had prior pregnancy losses and am 40, and wasn’t telling anyone until I had my genetic screening results back and knew we would continue the pregnancy. The CEO’s response when I announced was to congratulate me, and reinforce to me that I should not feel pressured to take a shorter maternity leave even though I’d be going out only 6 months after starting. I’m one of only two women on the executive team and the only one to be pregnant while on the team.
Is it possible that behind closed doors some people aren’t happy? Sure. But they’re not saying it and I’m not being treated differently or receiving less support or fewer opportunities than I think I would have were I not pregnant. And let me tell you, at this point I am pretty much ride-or-die for my company as a result.
Anon
My good friend started a new job and started his paid paternity leave one week later. It was fine. We need to get away from the narrative that childbearing women and their partners are just such a huge burden and that there’s never a good time for leave, etc.
Anonymous
A dad who takes paternity leave is a hero. A mom who takes maternity leave is a burden.
charlotte nc
How formal a city is Charlotte? Supposed to be going to a business meeting there (from NYC) and I’m not sure what to wear. I’m not sure what “business casual” means in this context.
Anonymous
Normal business casual, but less likely to consist of black Going Out Jacket plus black Rothys.
Gail the Goldfish
If you’re in law or finance, business casual is pretty much the same as in NYC.
Anon
if someone gets the virus and recovers – can they get it again? or only if it mutates?
Anonymous
There’s some evidence (“evidence”, given China. . . ) that you can get it again. Needs more data and better sources.
Anon
They’ve seen repeat infection in China.
Anon
And in North Carolina. But there are no confirmed studies that this is happening frequently, or that the person isn’t just resuccumbing to the then present infection after getting a little better.
Anon
What is the source for this? I can’t find anything about a supposed re-infection in North Carolina.
Anonymous
It’s unclear whether people are getting it again or just not fully recovering and having their symptoms pick back up.
Microbiologist
Nobody really knows, that’s the problem with an new virus! There’s definitely going to be a period of immunity in the majority of people, but whether it’s complete immunity for life isn’t clear. There were a couple instances of people seeming to get reinfected, but I think those were probably just problems with the testing method and they had never completely gotten over their initial infection. At this point, I don’t think there’s data to say for sure, though.
Anonymous
No one knows the answer to this question yet. It is a good question, though.
Anon
You should have immunity, although not necessarily for that long – people estimate <6 months of immunity based on SARS and MERS. There have been some “repeat infections” documented, but people suspect the patient never cleared the virus and the negative tests they got were false negatives.
Anonymous
Talk to me about making (nonequity) partner in biglaw. I’ve been told that it’s pretty likely to happen for me in the next few months. Can I look at this as a light at the end of the tunnel? I’ve been leaning in hard for a lot of years and I would really like to take a breath. I want to spend more time developing client relationships and also doing life stuff (like have a kid). I’m familiar with the whole pie eating contest thing; I’m wondering if life as an income partner was a bit more freeing so you weren’t chained to your desk all the time. The income partners in my office are pretty laid back but I’m not sure if that’s personality or workload related. Thanks!
Anonymous
Congrats! What is the window for non-equity, usually there is an up or out during which you need to show you can bring in the business.
OP
I don’t think there is one, at least officially? I know several income partners who are more than 15 years out of law school and they made partner at year 8. The one I’m closest to doesn’t know what the path to equity partner is. None of their jobs seem to be in jeopardy, at least from my perspective (which admittedly may be limited).
Ellen
This is great! I am an equity partner, now, but when I wasn’t, I had to learn that 1) I am still personally liable for the firm’s actions, whether negligent or not; 2) my salary went up, but I was not entitled to profit shareing, and 3) I did NOT get my name on the left side of the letterhead. Once I became an equity partner, I remain liable for personal wrongdoing of the firm partners and associates, I get equity sharing when we make money, but if we don’t I have to pony up money if we have losses not reimburseable by insurance, and I now have my name on the left hand side of the firm stationary and on the front door to our office (and downstairs). On the last point, I am so glad I never married my ex, b/c he wanted me to take his name even if hyphenated, and I would be mortified if it read Ellen Barshevsky-Sheketovits or Ellen Sheketovits-Barshevsky. Dad is also thrilled b/c he preserves the Barshevsky name w/o having to “taint” it with my ex’s name, who Grandma Leyeh says comes from Peasant Stock in the old country! I personally would like to be married, and if that is the cost going fowarad with another man, I will deal with it then! YAY!!!
Anonymous
It’s definitely not a step back at my firm. In addition to focusing on billing and running matters (though delegate as much as possible obviously), business development is now an expectation, so partners are out networking like crazy and pitching new clients, which eats up a lot of time. Then there are the internal firm commitments like committees you may not have had to join as an associate. And negotiations over comp. Assuming you are not salaried, you need to justify yourself and your value in a way you never had to do as an associate, which adds pressure to constantly be “on.” YMMV of course, depending on how your firm is structured.
Anon
+1 I think this is very firm dependent but this is how it works at my firm
Cat
The life of an income partner is the reason I decided not to stay at a firm. Clients who are a pain are handed off to you to handle (and you’d better be grateful right since you’re trying to build your book?), you’re justifying your compensation in a way that’s different from an associate, and you’re therefore subject to the same billable demands as before with an extra helping of stress and bus dev.
cbackson
For me it was freeing in that I essentially had complete control over my schedule and workload. At my firm, my billable requirement dropped (our billable requirement for partners was 1700, vs. 1900 for associates) to make more room for nonbillable work, and while I do think my workload was similar, a lot more of it was biz dev, admin, and client management. I did give myself the grace of a few easier years before I geared back up to start the push for equity (but then I got an incredible in-house opportunity and left).
We were salaried, so had some income certainty, although bonus for NEPs was a total black box at my firm and my bonuses were def lower during those easier years. We also didn’t have a clock for making equity – people were NEPs for 10 years in some cases – so it was generally a time when a lot of people had kids (or had a second kid after some delay) and got a bit of life back.
I liked it and would have stayed and ultimately would have shot for equity, but got a unicorn in-house job offer (lots more authority, more money, better schedule, better benefits…the only thing that’s worse is my commute), so I left.
Anonymous
As a non-attorney, but someone who works with them often, what does it mean to be a non-equity partner? I thought at some point you were either equity or non-equity, not that being a NEP was still a footstep to being equity?
Anonymous
Only an equity partner takes a share of firm profits.
RR
It’s a bit of a breath. I’ve been a non-equity partner at two firms, and the hours expectation is lower and support for client development is higher. However, it is a big like going from being at the top of a hill to being at the bottom of a mountain. You can probably expect to breath for a year or two if that’s your priority, but ultimately you have to find a way to justify your existence and compensation with fees, hours, and managerial responsibilities.
kk
this is such a small problem in the grand scheme of things but…
I confidently walked into a meeting today in my favorite jacket, tall boss lady shoes, and a fresh blowout. The other people in this meeting are in jeans and fleeces. I look so tone deaf. I’m trying to retain the confidence that this outfit gave me when I looked in the mirror this morning!
Rock it!
I think you probably projected confidence, not being overdressed! Good job!
I routinely dress up more than others in my office and I feel good about it! I think it makes me look more competent!
Anon
Same.
Senior Attorney
Yes. When I started my current job, one of the women who was senior to me memorably said “I’m almost always the most dressed-up person in the room, and I’m okay with that.” I took it to heart and never looked back.
Anonymous
This happens to me all the time. I dress like a lawyer for depositions, only to find the male attorneys are literally in jeans and sweatshirts/fleeces. I’m in my 20’s, they’re typically in their 50’s.
Ladyofthelake
I felt this way a little at a recent meeting wearing blazers while most were in relaxed business casual (blouse, maybe a cardigan, black pants) but then reminded myself that all of the mostly male bosses who I don’t get to see often are all wearing blazers/suits. Better risk being slightly formal vs. looking like I’m 1-2 steps away from going to an afternoon picnic or pub crawl when I’m essentially being assessed constantly the whole week. Better over- than under- with business dress, IMO.
Anon
My org is not even talking about WFH and acting like everything’s normal. I’m in Chicago. If you were me, would you insist on teleworking? I don’t want to seem like I’m overreacting, but I think everyone else is UNDERreacting.
Other Chicagoans, are you still going into the office?
Anonymous
Chicagoan here, I agree with you!! My Org is like “we are wiping surfaces with Lysol daily!” like that is going to prevent us from gettin sick. I am teleworking until further notice, and if someone asks I will just insist I don’t feel well (I don’t, but I would normally come in). I am really disturbed my the lack of leadership here.
Anon
Insist on WFH right this instant? No.
Insist that your company acknowledge there might be a need in the near term and devise a plan, like any responsible company should be doing right now (Testing VPNs, advising workers to take laptops home nightly, making sure server can handle 100% WFH capacity, plans for support staff who don’t have laptops)? Yup.
anon
plus: identify essential functions and designate more than one replacement in case those people get too sick to do their job.
CHS
In Chicago, and we are starting to talk about it. Making plans, getting policies in place, encouraging teams to start discussing how they’ll interact and work together. That being said, everything is normal until it’s not.
Anon
We have cases in my part of the state but not yet in our county. My employer (university) has not announced widespread WFH for staff but moved all classes online, so I just told my boss I’ll be working from home except for when I have meetings, which are rare. I have a couple health conditions and although I don’t believe they put me at great risk for this, you never know.
anon
I’m in Chicago. Our team has moved to an A team and a B team – 14 days in, 14 days “out.” You can come in during your 14 “in” days but are encouraged to WFH as much as you can. On your 14 days “out” you cannot come in. We cannot travel between different Chicago offices or have meetings with more than 20 participants in one place. International travel has been banned for a while.
Anonymous
Are you practicing social distancing when it comes to your at risk family members? My 90 year old grandmother with several conditions lives alone in an isolated area (very concerning, topic for another post). She asked my family to come visit her in a few weeks (she’s a few hours’ drive away). None of us are sick but I am just concerned about putting her in unnecessary risk?
Anon
My 70 year old parents are visiting us (driving) next week but DH and I are both teleworking full-time at this point so I think the risk to them is pretty low.
Anon
Honestly, I’d ask her. At her age, she can decide what risks she’s comfortable with or not. I think for some at risk people (thinking of my late grandmother), further social isolation > risk of dying from COVID-19.
anon
I expect to have to help out with one of my elderly neighbors at some point. While I am young and healthy, I am following the advice (probably WFH starting tomorrow, bringing home a spare keyboard today, and my ergo mouse), in part so that I can stay healthy to not endanger all those other people.
I would probably do the same if I planned to visit grandma.
Anon
My elderly mother is a teacher with no immediate plans to retire, so while I’m being careful, I’m not avoiding her. She’s going to catch something from gross grimy children before she catches it from me.
Em
I am consciously not visiting my 87-year-old grandmother who lives in an independent-living community. I work in a large office and have a toddler in daycare so I am not risking being the person to introduce it to her or the entire facility. My mother and her sister are both retired and are both still visiting her semi-regularly, although they have also reduced visits.
Thanks
My County is asking us not to visit the elderly.
Anon
My answer here depends on your own exposures. We are cancelling a visit from my elderly parents, largely because I’m worried that my kids are going to asymptomatic vectors of disease. If it were just me and my spouse, I would be much less worried, because we both work from home full time.
Anon
I just dropped the majority of my organic blueberries on my kitchen floor. My household wears shoes indoors. Do I have to throw these away or can I clean them somehow?
Never too many shoes...
Ummm, wash them in water.
Anon
Toss them in a colander, rinse them off and eat them. They’re fine.
Anon
Likely worse has happened to them on the way to your house, wash them off the same you would before eating.
Anon
I was thinking this, but I was wondering if there was something else I could put on them besides water.
Anon
I’d take my chances with floor crud over ingesting some kind of disinfectant.
Anonymous
Add some white vinegar to the water if you have it?
Anon
+1
Anon
Most grocery stores in my area have produce wash in the veggie section, but my GP says it’s a waste of money. Water should be fine, as long as you’re agitating the berries thoroughly while rinsing.
Anon
Haha I definitely eat things I’ve dropped on the kitchen floor and usually even without washing them off.
Eliza
Well, they do grow in dirt! Wash them off and they’ll be fine.
Anon
You could also do a vinegar water rinse
Anon in HR
I would not insist on working from home. There’s OSHA guidance on this. I work in HR for a large Fortune 100 company and employees who are overreacting and insisting that they be allowed to work from home are being told that unless they have a reasonable concern (someone in their work group has COVID 19 or are under quarantine) they’re required to be at work. Based on OSHA’s guidance, the employee’s concern must be “reasonable” and then the employer should demonstrate the steps they’re taking to alleviate the employee’s “reasonable” concern. You don’t want to be labeled and while employers can’t retaliate, it’ll be hard for them to forget that you were unreasonable.
Anonymous
I would challenge your definition of “reasonable.”
Anonymous
Yes, please at least extend your definition to include people who are considered high risk (the elderly, those with preexisting conditions, etc) as reasonable in their request to stay home.
Are you an expert on OSHAs guidance & are you sure your policy will hold up to future legal scrutiny?
anon
OSHA’s newly published COVID19 guidelines do say employers should explore the possibility of telecommuting and other social distancing measures.
https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3990.pdf
Anon
It’s not overreacting.
Anonymous
There’s now increasing community spread, so these guidelines should evolve from knowingly having close contact with someone.
Anonymous
Any suggestion about what to do with an employer whose entire program is telling people to wash their hands, not touch their face and wipe down surfaces? And yes, there are reported virus cases in the area of my office.
Of course, employer also forbids WFH, although its feasible for many of us.
Seventh Sister
Are any exceptions being made for immunocompromised employees that could conceivably work from home? There isn’t terrific guidance being given by anyone, and if I had a serious underlying health condition, I’d be probably be pushing to work from home, never mind the letter of the law or the usual rules.
That said, I don’t envy your position if it’s Sammy Slacker who is asking to WFH and demanding a bunch of expensive equipment be installed at their house Right Now.
Seventh Sister
That said, the part where you talk about how this would get somebody “labeled” is the sort of thing that makes me very, very reluctant to talk to our HR people, even for the simplest or most anodyne thing. Not everyone feels comfortable disclosing to HR all of their health conditions or personal obligations, especially when they worry that something is going to wind up on their “permanent record” like it’s high school when hey, maybe I *didn’t* want everyone to know that I had ladycancer.
I’ve been in the workforce for @20 years, and while I’ve definitely appreciated that HR people have gotten a lot better about confidentiality, I’d be ticked off if I found out that the HR people had a bunch of labels in my file that made it so that I wouldn’t get a promotion. As it is, I don’t know if mine are ticked off at me for complaining about our new, extremely slow and fussy FSA administration company even though I rarely ask them for anything and barely ever complain about anything.
all about eevee
This is the kind of thing that makes people hate and fear HR.
Flats Only
You are 100% correct. The part about “you don’t want to be labeled” is so, so, so unprofessional.
pugsnbourbon
Right? Holy moly.
Flats Only
Your comment, coming from an HR professional, is such a great reminder to all the rest of us that HR is only there to protect the company, not to protect the employees in any way. I loved your barely veiled threat to “label” employees who are “overreacting”. I suppose we can only be thankful that you don’t refer to them as “resources” as has become popular on this board.
Anonymous
100%
Seventh Sister
And as a tired, skeptical GenXer, I’d probably give this particular HR professional a wide berth if the building was evacuated due to a fire, just in case flinging me to the ground/pushing me in front of traffic/tripping me on the way out was in the best interests of the company.
Deputy?
Paging the poster from yesterday whose new coworker called her his deputy on auto reply. I’m enraged on your behalf – did you end up responding?
Anon
I am sick. I posted yesterday looking for book recs but my eyes won’t let me read today, so I guess TV / streaming recs?
I either have the flu (despite the flu shot) or covid-19 but either way I’m unlikely to be tested given the current testing criteria.
Anon
It is best to call your healthcare provider anyway as they have loosened testing standards.
Anon
They’re not calling me back! I’m in the Bay Area. I’m sure every patient is calling.
Anon
Also, two of my friends are currently down with something very similar, and no testing.
The stats you’re seeing, at least from the bat area, are grossly understated.
Anon
I know someone who called the health department yesterday to try to get tested after the doctor said no, and the health department said no too. You can only get a test if you have traveled to one of the international hotspots or been in close contact with a person known to have covid-19.
Anonymous
That’s crazy! My city in Canada is testing people who just attended the same conference as one guy who had it in Toronto even though no one else at the conference has symptoms yet and they are so far symptom free.
Anon
Oh no! Hope you feel better. What do you like? I just binged Mindy Kaling’s Four Weddings and a Funeral mini-series on Hulu and loved it, but it might not be for you if you don’t love low-brow rom-coms ;)
Cb
Audiobooks?
Veronica Mars
I enjoyed “Hunters” (hunting na*z*s) on Amazon streaming (although the ending totally killed it for me, the episodes were really enjoyable).
AnonATL
+1. Hunters was very entertaining to me, minus the last 30 minutes of the final episode. It’s a bit like Spike Lee and Tarantino had a tv show baby if that’s your style.
Anonymous
You should try to get tested
Anon
A co-worker and co-worker’s fiance have both presented to doctors in our state with fever and malaise and been told they did not “have enough symptoms” and would not be tested. One of them was sick for 2-3 days and is already better– but that seems consistent with how COVID-19 presents in someone in their 20s. We are in Tennessee where there are supposedly only 7 cases.
Anon
I’m home with the flu, even though I got the flu shot. Flu is the first thing they’ll test you for anyways, they wont jump to covid as the first test. Flu tests come back in 15 minutes. If that’s negative then they’ll look to other tests. Currently watching Killing Eve on hulu.
Anonymous
Podcasts! Some really good ones I’ve enjoyed : Serial season 1, obviously, The Dream season 1, Catch and Kill, Dr. Death, The Drop Out, Bad Blood.
Anon Probate Atty
In the Dark Season 1 was fabulous!
anon
Yeah I had a cold from hell last week and I thought I was just relapsing but now I have a low fever (like 100-ish) and a “non-productive” cough which is different from what I had last week. I called the my doctor but he said it wasn’t COVID because I haven’t been to China or Italy and so I can’t be tested
Anonymous
Well that’s one way to keep the numbers down for now.
Anonymous
Go back immediately if you get lower respiratory tract symptoms.
Anonymous
I am in Chicago and we have several active cases, but I am hearing that this is the line hospitals are going with. Also that you can’t get tested unless you can verify you had contact with someone who tested positive….which is impossible because no one is being tested…
No Problem
And this is why we’ve got and will continue to have community transmission. Because health officials are in denial that there is already community transmission. (I know, it’s probably not the health officials themselves, I’m sure most of them would prefer being able to test everyone)
Anon
Yeah, I don’t think it’s the health officials. My state only has the ability to test a few hundred people!
Anonymous
Serious question and I am sorry if I sound panicky, but are we bound to have it as bad as Italy and Iran (for example) given the govt failure here? There is clearly widespread community spread at this point and no testing, thus no containment or treatment.
Anonymous
I think it is likely to get as bad in the US as it did in Italy. The trend in other countries seems to be focusing on limited community transmission – there is no more containment – it’s all about flattening the curve right now but that requires robust testing and clear info to the public – neither of which is happening in the US right now. People can’t make good decisions without good info.
Without robust testing and tracking, it’s hard to know where it is and where to devote the most resources to reduce the curve to have a long term perspective on recovery.
And I say this as someone who was still considering going to Italy in June as recently as last week.
Anon Probate Atty
Oh no! Hope you feel better soon. Recs for TV shows: Fleabag (I LOVED that show and I am so sad it only lasted 2 seasons) Mindhunter, Homeland, Ozark, and of course Breaking Bad/The Wire if you haven’t already seen those.