This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I always like a simple silk blouse that you can pull over your head and not have to deal with buttons. For work, I think you can wear this by itself or under a suit jacket, and it's just a generally lovely sort of fancy t-shirt. I like the almost satiny stripe down the middle, too. We're featuring it in the deep midnight, which is very nice, but it also comes in black and (in a few lucky sizes) lilac. It was $178 but is now only $53, and it's available in sizes 0-12. Short-Sleeve Silk Blouse
A few plus-size options are here, here, and (for something more affordable) here.
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
RSS Error: WP HTTP Error: cURL error 60: Issuer certificate is invalid.
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Wild Chicken
I don’t understand the “distressed” and otherwise destroyed jeans trend. I’m trying to find some jeans to wear to work, and everything at Nordstrom appears to have been run over with a lawn mower. I just want a nice, professional looking, dark wash jean in a tall or longer length. Any ideas?
Anonymous
I agree. I think distressed jeans are truly bizarre, and I judge people who buy them….. Especially people who pay $100-200 on them.
I don’t think people realize what they are projecting. We are all lemmings!
Anon
How exactly do you know when people are wearing $200 distressed jeans and when they’re wearing jeans that got ripped through just living life? I want to know so I too can properly judge people.
Anonymous
I can’t claim that I can tell the $200 distressed jeans from cheaper jeans that people have taken scissors to themselves, but it’s pretty easy to tell intentionally distressed vs. distressed from actual wear and tear. Intentionally distressed jeans usually look perfect – no fading, no sagging – except for the fact they have giant rips around the knees. Jeans that have holes from wear and tear look worn all over.
Laurie
Distressed jeans are dumb. I saw a woman wearing a pair where her a$$ was showing thru her panties! Unless she was trying to attract a man, it was ridiculous.
anon
I think you’ll appreciate this XKCD cartoon about the fashion and grammar police.
https://xkcd.com/1735/
AG
I am partial to AG jeans. They last forever, don’t fade, and are 33in.
anon
+1
AIMS
Banana Republic used to have something like this.
Monday
Ditto Ann Taylor, though I haven’t looked lately. I recommend washing them inside out so that you don’t get streaks or uneven fading, though a small amount of fading over time I think is inevitable.
BB
I like Rag and Bone jeans…assuming they still have their nice dark indigo wash, which is perfect for work.
Minnie Beebe
I actually don’t mind some light distressing. What I really don’t get are the jeans with a large rectangular cutout at the knees. Distressing looks like it could have happened in real life, through normal wear and tear. The cutout knee thing? Nope, don’t understand it. Though now that I think about it, maybe it’s an extension of the cold-shoulder top concept? Cold-knee jeans?
Cornellian
HAHA
AIMS
So does that mean cold knee jeans shouldn’t be worn with cold knee tops? Too matchy matchy?
lsw
*spit take*
Fishie
Old Navy. Yesterday, today, and forevermore. I love their jeans – perfect rise, good stretch, price can’t be beat. If you are going dark wash, however, I recommend getting some of those dye collecting sheets for your laundry and washing them a few times before you wear them, as the dye transfers to hands, car seats, white bags…ask me how I know.
anon
+1 they are amazing for tall sizes
Pears
And curves.
anon
Unless you have thighs. For the life of me, I cannot get a pair of ON jeans to fit.
Anon
Was going to say this also. After the world of jeans went crazy, with all the embroidery, rips, cutouts, patchwork, high-rises (no, just no) etc. I went back to Old Navy for good ol’ plain dark jeans. I have both skinny and narrow bootcut styles and they work for work. The range of sizes and lengths means I can always find something that will fit the way I want it to.
Bette
Gap straight leg jeans in a dark wash. You can get them on sale for like $40.
Perfect straight leg jeans – tapered but not tight at all. Length works for me at 5’10”
Fishie
Yes, love Gap too. Although I find their rises to be a bit higher which doesn’t work for me because I’m short/short waisted.
I would avoid any of those “sculpt” jeans too. I was overheated within seconds of putting them on.
Anonymous
Agree. Originally I went to Nordstrom to get jeans. None of them worked for what I wanted. My Nordstrom personal stylist said to go the GAP. Perfect straight leg jeans (or boot cut) -dark wash. Picked up 2 pairs of jeans for less than $80.
Trish
Lucky Brand.
Anonymous
I’m 5’11” and I swear by Old Navy jeans. They have both long and tall sizes. Long is usually a little too short for me but I assume would be great for someone 5’9″ish and the talls are so long I have to get them hemmed so I assume they’d work for someone up to 6’1″ or so. They have a lot of non-distressed styles currently.
Blonde Lawyer
I’ll have to try their longs. I had only seen short/regular/tall. I’m 5’7″ but long-legged / short torso. The regular are too short and the talls were WAY too long. I didn’t know there was a middle “long” option. Do you get them in store or online only?
Anonymous
I buy everything online but I think they may have the longs in the stores. Can’t swear by it though.
Anon
Gap does the long. I’m 5’8″ and in the same boat and I find a 33/34 inch inseam – usually the “long” – is perfect for me. Currently wearing Old Navy long maternity jeans (and bought their long khakis as work pants)
Anon
Also – I buy everything online. Gap and Old Navy have free return shipping, so I just seal up the bag, print the label at my office and hand it over to our mail room. Makes it a breeze.
ELS
+1, and I am on the shorter side. Old Navy has really stepped up their jean game since I was a kid. I have only ON and GAP jeans in my closet, after tons of trying on other brands.
Anonymous
James Jeans used to. 33″ inseam and fit me at 5’9″
Bonnie
I like distressed jeans for weekend wear. Banana Republic now has the Sloan pant in jean form. That’s my go to for work.
TorontoNewbie
How about raw denim? I love the dark wash straight leg from Naked & Famous – and they come in tall lengths too!
SC
I bought some Levis at Macy’s, and I’ve been happy with them. Obviously they’re not the trendiest jeans, but as you point out, the trendiest jeans have intentional holes in them.
anon99
+1 – Team Levi!
Midwestern Constitutent
I swear by the Wrangler Ultimate Riding Jean in the Cash style. I’m also partial to 100% cotton jeans, though, so YMMV. I also have some American Eagle jeans I got from the men’s department a few years ago, but I can’t recall the style right now. And they’ve likely changed things since then, anyway. I’ll add the Wrangler link in the reply.
Midwestern Constitutent
https://www.wrangler.com/shop/women-jeans/wrangler-cowgirl-cut-ultimate-riding-jean-cash?variationId=WRC10AS&sma=sm.001nwczd91ae1ezgx9p13idw03vsx
Midwestern Constitutent
And this looks like my American Eagle jeans. Clearanced out so luck sizes only.
https://www.ae.com/men-clearance-original-straight-jean-dark-vintage-wash/web/s-prod/0111_3129_952?cm=sUS-cUSD&catId=cat8070006
Anon
Gap jeans. Recently went back to them after a 10 year hiatus in which I was buying Paige and love them. Dark rinse, no distressing, and they come in long/talls.
Anonymous
NYDJ at Nordstrom. Great jeans, size down.
Anon
+1
Mrs. Jones
These are my favorite jeans right now.
Anon
Madewell!
EB0220
Raleigh Denim is amazing.
Anon
DL1961 is my favorite right now. Their Emma Power Legging is everything.
Visibility and online dating
So, I’m considering doing online dating. I’m in my mid-30s and live in a small city (pop ~100,000) so between those two factors, I’m assuming it’s going to be a very small pool. I’ve done online dating before, but only when I was younger and living in a large city.
I’m concerned about feeling overly “visible” once my profile is up. I have an unusual name, both first and last. I have an unusual haircut. I have distinctive tattoos that can be seen in a sleeveless shirt. I am a fitness instructor at a local studio, and the class schedule (with instructors listed) is public, so anyone can see when I am going to be there. The studio also has a full head shot and bio of me that are public, so even if someone didn’t know my name from the dating app they could match my picture and figure it out. I also live right in the small downtown area of the city, so if I walk to meet someone at a bar and then walk home it would be easy for them to find out where I live. Overall, I’m concerned about people gaining too much information on me, too quickly, and then not being able to ghost if I need to since it’s a small community.
Is this all just normal stuff, nothing to worry about? Or if not, how can I protect myself reasonably? Any other tips welcome too.
anon
With regards to your unique name, typically you’ll have a screen name (something like “YogaQueen”) and then only exchange your first name with people with whom you’re communicating. It’s not like your full (or even first) name is visible to every visitor to the site.
Sassyfras
Maybe see it as an incentive to not ghost but instead be upfront about whether or not you’re interested? More difficult in the moment but less awkward situations later.
Anonymous
Plus ghosting is pretty rude. It’s easy enough to say that you had a nice time but you didn’t feel any chemistry and wish them luck.
OP
What about the unreasonable, potentially violent ones though? I wouldn’t ghost someone who simply took no for an answer.
anon
Honestly, while those men are out there they are a small minority. I don’t know anyone, personally, who had a dangerous experience. It’s important to remember that all dating involves exposing yourself to others. If you met someone in a coffee shop you could have the same problem.
Anonymous
How do you know that they won’t take no for an answer before you tell them no? I think you still act politely and decline, it’s better than further upsetting an unstable person by being rude. If you think someone is harassing you, call the police. That kind of situation is very unlikely, though. You usually get a good idea of someone’s personality after exchanging a few messages.
January
I may have been fortunate, but I haven’t run into anyone who actually threatened or stalked me. I’ve met men who countered with a snarky remark when I declined a further date, and one man who lost his mind when I declined to reschedule a first date that he had blown off (telling me I was really mean, immature, rude etc., over a period of about an hour before I blocked him). I never even met that guy. My point is that it’s not that hard to weed out the unstable ones before you meet them.
CX
It sounds like you have valid concerns, but you’re in that rock-and-a-hard-place spot of wanting to be find-able by potential desirable partners, but not utterly stalk-able. You could put up a really vague profile (no face, limited identifying info), but that runs the risk of being assumed to be a fake profile or an adulterer.
– Ask the fitness studio to minimize the personally identifying information on its site. Would they let you take down your head-shot? Use a cartoon avatar instead? One would hope they’d be sensitive to stalking concerns. Ideally, people aren’t attending your class solely based on the photo.
– Use an alias on the dating site that’s not easily connectable to your studio bio. I.e. don’t call yourself YogabunnyUnusualFirstName or Crossfit4LyfeNickname.
– If the tattoos are easily searchable, don’t include photos of them on the dating profile (a face pic, a long-sleeved full body pic, and a long-sleeved obligatory outdoorsy/cute dog pic should be enough)
– Practice route-variance on the way home from the bar, walk with friends, call a Lyft if your spidey-sense is tingling.
Anonymous
Honestly, don’t do the vague profile thing. You will get zero real interactions, because people will (correctly) be concerned you aren’t really interested in putting yourself out there.
Senior Attorney
I have a locally-high-profile job in which I interact with so many people that I can’t possibly remember all of them but they would all likely remember me (not completely dissimilar to teaching big fitness classes in that regard). I was sufficiently squicked out by the idea of any of those people seeing me on a dating site that I decided to pursue other avenues of dating.
If you do decide to go forward, CX above has some good ideas. And yeah, ghosting is rude anyway so it’s probably better not to do it. Treat people with respect and it’s very likely they will return the favor.
OP
I agree ghosting is rude, but I said “if I need to”– meaning if someone is getting aggressive or crossing a line. That’s the scenario I’m worried about. I’m easy to find.
Violet
What are some of those alternate avenues? I’m in a much larger place but haven’t had a good time on-line and meeting people in real life (my volunteer and extra curricular group activities) hasn’t happened either…
Senior Attorney
Well I got stupidly lucky and met my husband at my local Rotary Club. I also have met people at the gym and I have a friend who swears by Meetup.com. And I also had some fix-ups from friends but I will be honest and say none of those was very successful. At all. ;)
Violet
Thanks. Guess it’s time to branch further out. Rotary here I come! ;)
Senior Attorney
Rock on!!
Bette
I have a high profile public job in a midsize city. Think rung down from local newscaster.
I met my partner online and i had absolutely no issues with it.
One thing I did do though was only use sites that were either $ or that were not searchable so I couldn’t get gawked at/easily searched. This way the only people that saw my profile were those that had skin in the game, so to speak.
Cat
Not sure about this one. The broad, deep scoop neckline looks hard to manage (you’d forever be re-centering it to avoid bra straps hanging out, and leaning/bending/reaching may be tricky), and the combination of the square, boxy fit with the elbow length sleeves seems frumpy to me.
Kitchen Mission
Copycatting yesterday’s thread on bathroom renovations, same question (what do you wish you knew then that you know now) about kitchens?
Also, any advice about sinks? Stainless or composite granite, undermount only. Any suggestions/experience?
anon
We recently redid our counters and backsplash. Because of the way our kitchen was laid out, our only undermount sink option was a large single basin stainless sink. I expected to hate it, but I actually LOVE IT. I love that you can clean stainless with barkeepers friend or comet. And I love the single basin. I can fit any of my pans to soak rather than leaving them on the counter, and I can wash large platters. I got an above the sink dish strainer that fits over the top of the sink for the few little things we leave to drip dry. Also, we got granite counters and had them permanently sealed. It wasn’t very expensive and I prefer to have something like that rather than having to remember to do it.
BB
Can I ask a follow-up? Roughly how much did this cost for you? How disruptive was it?
I’ve been thinking of doing this in my kitchen because the original reno (which we did not do) doesn’t strike me as very good. There’s no caulking around the counters and I’m paranoid that there’s mildew growing in the cracks. I also don’t have a proper backsplash, just a little “lip” of counter material that goes 2 inches up the wall.
anon
Counters + sink + faucet + back splash tile & labor I think was a little under $4,000? We have a galley kitchen with no island. We did a subway tile backsplash. I got the tile from Lowe’s and I had them price match something I found online. We also redid a couple of outlets on the backsplash. There were a lot of little things that added up. My husband can do basic plumbing and electrical work, so we didn’t have to pay labor for that stuff.
As far as how disruptive it was, that has a lot to do with the lay out of your particular kitchen plumbing and electrical and the schedules of the people you hire. It took about a month from the time we went and chose our slab of granite til the whole thing was done. For two weeks our kitchen was only partially usable. The outlets were hanging out of the wall because we had to demo the existing backsplash before we could install the new counters and the tile people had a backed up schedule. There were only about 2-3 days, where the kitchen was truly unusable. You have to disconnect the plumbing while the sink adhesive is curing. One other thing to mention is that when they demoed the existing backsplash, I had to do a bit of touch up to the paint. I had painted the kitchen myself and I had some paint left over, thankfully.
The process was annoying, but SO SO worth it. I love my kitchen and I’m so happy with how it turned out.
BB
Thanks so much for the info! Really good to know it isn’t crazy disruptive like a whole kitchen redo.
CountC
Thanks so much for the info! Really good to know it isn’t crazy disruptive like a whole kitchen redo.
Anon.
I agree. I wish we had a single basin or one with a tiny disposal basin instead of two relatively equal ones.
Anonymous
I’m another single basin person. Our sink is not large length by width, but it is deeper than our old one, and I love that because it hides dishes better. We also got a metal grate for the bottom free and I’d never used one before. I love that too.
CountC
Team single basin. I have a double basin now and nothing fits and I don’t use the non-disposal side for anything.
I recently got quotes to put in quartz and a knock-off galley sink from Kohler. I am wavering on whether to go ahead with it as I am not sure how much longer I will be in my house.
(http://www.us.kohler.com/us/Prolific-33-x-17-3-4-x-11-under-mount-single-bowl-kitchen-sink-with-accessories/productDetail/kitchen-sinks/1039650.htm although it is cheaper on Amazon)
Walnut
I bought the largest, deepest single basin sink that would fit in my space. Zero regrets. So, so happy with the decision several years later.
Anon
Showing up to rep Team Double Basin! I like that I can soak things on one side and have the other side free for the garbage disposal and other things.
Anon
+1. I don’t love my current sink but probably wouldn’t ever do a single basin.
Scarlett
Get marble or quartz counters if you like them (I was talked into granite as a harder surface and hate hate hate it).
Anonymous
+1 to single basin sinks. I wish we’d gotten that instead of the double basin we got. It’s annoying that only half our sink has a garbage disposal and we can’t fit some of the big pots and pans in the sink. In general I was thrilled with our contractor but the backsplash options he presented us were stupidly expensive. I went to Lowe’s and got sheets of tile that were $5/foot. It saved us around $1000 I think, even though we paid the contractor to install it. And it looks amazing and matches our countertops and cabinets beautifully. We also have granite counters. I don’t worry about resealing but our counters are fairly dark with a lot of veins so a water stain wouldn’t be as noticeable as they would be on white countertops without veining.
Kitchen Mission
I like double basin because I use one side for things that are “meat dirty” and one side for regular dirty, but I’m a little weird about germs. But I hear you on being able to fit everything in, like roasting pans and big pots and stuff. The composite sinks have the low divider option, but stainless doesn’t. We don’t ever use our sink as a basin, i.e., fill it up with sudsy water to wash things, mostly because I don’t think sinks are ever really clean so things would basically just be soaking in salmonella water. The sink guy suggested that is the benefit of a double sink, but I don’t really see it.
We’re going down to the studs in some places, so it’s exciting to get to pick everything myself and make sure it is done right, because our kitchen is currently a patchwork quilt of bad work (think pendant lights attached to a board hanging from the ceiling because the previous owner didn’t want to pay someone to properly install the lights), plywood cabinets with unfinished/unpainted interiors and bottoms, and soffits containing exactly nothing but added “just in case.”
Bonnie
Team double basin here too. I like having a place for hand-wash items to dry without taking up counter space. I wish we had splurged and done a backsplash in the same granite as the countertops. I find that a tile backsplash is much harder to keep clean.
Blonde Lawyer
I’m not usually weird about germs but I have big hangups when it comes to the kitchen sink. I drive my husband nuts because if something is hand wash only, I don’t want it left in the sink until we get around to washing it. I want it left on the counter. I never feel like hand washing gets something as sterile as running it through the dishwasher. I don’t want a handwash item sharing a sink with dirty dishes, particularly dishes that had raw meat!
Anon
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if you can get things cleaner by handwashing than you can in a dishwasher. And unless you have one of those industrial sanitizers, you’re not getting things sterile at home.
ELS
+1.
H
I’m on team double basin sink. However, the middle divider is short so pots can go in and the handle can fit over it. I like keeping dirty dishes on one side and having the disposal side free for washing. DH and I disagree on this so YMMV.
I had a porcelain sink before and that thing never looked clean. LOVE the stainless steel sink.
Kitchen reno?
Does anyone love and recommend their kitchen faucet? How about pendant lighting? I am looking for three pendant lights for above our kitchen island and my husband and I cannot agree on a style! Looking for something simple…
Ms B
We love our touchless faucet more than words can say. It is a small thing that makes life so much easier — for example, The Kid can reach the tip of the faucet to get his own water, but he would not be able to reach the handle on a conventional faucet yet.
Also, next time we will not do a built in soap dispenser. I now know that I would prefer to have two on-counter dispensers (one with regular dish soap and one with soap for the wine glasses and delicates), preferably one with the sponge holders built in.
I have had good luck on-line with Lighting by Gregory for pendants, fans and other fixtures.
Don’t forget the under cabinet lighting or a pendant over the sink.
Have you considered a fan over your island? We find it makes a big difference if you cook a lot . . .
Anon
Look at rejuvenations catalog/website for pendant lights. So many options.
Jdubs
+1 to the touchless faucet. It might be my favorite part of our new kitchen. But… no one else likes it. My husband, mother, and nanny complain about it at every chance. Oh well. I love it! The one I have is the Moen Arbor single hand pull down with motion sense.
AIMS
We didn’t have space for a double sink so that wasn’t an option but we went with stainless because it seemed like it would be easier to maintain. I didn’t want to have to worry about accidentally chipping the sink because I dropped a heavy lid or to think twice about putting a very hot pot in the sink or whatever else.
Other things I wish I knew/know now: plugs – get more of them than you think you will need! If you can get some extra ones installed in the counter/side of counter, so much the better. Pull out drawers are amazing and worth it (but if you’re doing a pantry/tall cabinet you only need them so high because at some point it just isn’t helpful). If you bake/cook a lot and have the space (and are redoing cabinets), get one of those ones that will conceal your heaviest appliances on a counter top (pinterest has examples) – it’s the one thing i wish we could have figured out how to do for our kitchen but didn’t have the space.
Last – not so much a kitchen renovation tip but a storage trick I got from our contractor – store your baking sheets/cutting boards sideways in a cabinet, they can make little ridges for you or you can buy a divider or you can just put them on the side, but it is just so much easier and better in every way.
Anon
Love my stainless steel sink for the cleaning reasons mentioned above. We have a 3/4 1/4 split, with the disposal on the 1/4 side. I kind of wish I had disposals in both (but don’t mind having the double). If you like to cook, recommend at least 3/4 HP on the disposal – makes a huge difference.
Our microwave is in the island and is knee height. I don’t microwave that often, and I hate having to bend over to get stuff, but I think it will come in handy once the baby is old enough to microwave for herself and I do like having it out of eyesight.
One of the things that sold me on our house is that we have double wall ovens, and they are both full size! Most wall ovens I’ve seen are smaller than a standard size. Makes cooking for holidays a breeze (or even when we want to broil steaks but do sides at something lower). While pregnant it is hard to lift stuff around the door – if they make them “french door” style I think that is an upgrade worth considering vs. having to reach in over the door to put food in/get it out.
Can’t have too many outlets. I love our undercabinet lighting. And if you have the option to go gas, go gas (although I do prefer an electric oven for more even heating). Also can’t overstate the importance of a good range hood/exhaust fan. Ours sounds like a jet engine, which means I rarely use it, so there is much complaining in our house about how it smells like onions and garlic all the time (which I don’t mind).
Really like having a pull out drawer for the trash can as well.
Anon
Many of the better ranges have electric ovens with gas broilers, and gas stovetop burners. Best of both worlds.
Anon in Fla
We just redid our entire kitchen – the 2nd time I’ve done this (different houses). On the issue of sinks, last reno was huge stainless Blanco undermount single sink with standing grate so pots etc. didn’t sit directly on the bottom. I loved it except for when I poured boiling water in (draining pasta) and it would make a popping sound! This time I have the same sink in dark grey composite granite (white quartz countertops) and I love, love, love the look and the sink. Same grate in bottom. Super easy to clean. It’s sort of softer than a typical sink. I love singles because I can fit in pots and pans, and just use a plastic bowl if I need to soak or need soapy water for quick rinses while I’m cooking. Undermount garbage has been in both kitchens – keeps it out of sight and easy to clean out. Ours is under sink this time but was opposite last time. I didn’t get the double drawer for cutlery this time, but wish I had – one drawer, cutlery on top and it slides back to reveal cooking stuff – orange peeler, nutmeg grater etc. We had halogen undermount lights last time – too hot. This time we have LED strips and they look fabulous. We splurged on the new outlets that pop out from the wall when you need to use them and are flush otherwise – love them so much. Last time we had room for an appliance graveyard – I miss it. Ours was a single floor to ceiling cabinet where the middle was doors that opened and pushed back into cabinet to reveal coffee maker, kettle, toaster etc. and outlet in back. Just be careful about steam – ours slid out so that helped. We had a single sheet of blue glass for the backsplash – easiest clean up ever. This time we have glass tiles – I think it looks a little busy but DH loves it. We have floor to ceiling pull out pantries – this time they pull out with only half the drawers fixed to the cabinet face. The others pull out individually – much better for the heavy stuff. Last one everything pulled out and it was really heavy. We have an island so have undermount outlets with USB ports for charging i-phones etc. We have wood cabinets against the walls and blue gloss laminate for the island and bar. The wood cabinets have white quartz counters – we put the same in our master bath. The island and bar has a white quartz with blue veins running through it – picks up on blue of cabinetry. Stainless toe kicks on everything. Built in refrigerator. Drawer microwave in island – love, love it. Oven has right swing open door with roll out racks – I love this because I find it tough to pull oven doors all the way down and then get at the food, especially something heavy. This way I can stand right in front. Also, dish drawers in each kitchen. This time we had to stack them for space issues, but the last time we put one on either side of the sink – perfect! One is clean, the other is dirty; only 2 of us so we can load and wash more frequently and economically, and no bending down (see a theme here!). We have drawers inside the lower cabinets rather than shelves – much easier to pull out to access stuff in the back, particularly if its heavy, but you do have to open both doors to pull out so I might go with single cabinet width drawers if I ever do this again. There are lots of extras you can add, but many of them you can get at Ikea or The Container Store etc. – custom is much more expensive.
Ms B
What brand oven did you get? We are looking to replace our existing double ovens which are located between the fridge and a doorway and then face the side of a built-in china hutch, which leads to a lot of (in my view, unsafe) maneuvering in that area. Side openers would solve that problem . .
Anon in Fla
Bosch oven under a Bosch cooktop. I would have done double oven if I had the space. It’s been great so far. They swing left or right – you pick.
Anon
I have an enameled sink because it is correct for my 1909 house, but that aside, single basin and DEEP is the way to go. It took some getting used to reaching so far down to the bottom of the sink but it is so handy for everything I’d never go back to a normal depth sink.
Anon
Other kitchen stuff – I find a large counter for chopping, mise en place, etc is easier right beside the stove than across from it on an island. Task lighting this area is essential. We have hanging lamps in our kitchen (old house, tall ceilings) – a big one in the center, then smaller pendants over the counter area and over the sink.
Storage for food and pots and pans and spices and bowls and all of that stuff is essential. You’ll need more than you think you’ll need.
My favorite cabinets are pull out dual trash (one for trash and one for recycling) that looks like a regular cabinet, and the cabinet with a pull out tray for cookie sheets and cutting boards, which stand vertically.
I like my over the stove microwave. It has a good light and an exhaust fan that vents outside.
Torin
My kitchen has black granite countertops and I hate them. If anything other than granite polish and a microfiber cloth touches them they immediately look smeary and gross, no matter how clean they are. I don’t have this problem with the light gray granite in my bathrooms. I think it’s a problem unique to black/dark granite. Avoid.
Anon
Ours are black with light blue and silver flecks/graining. The smearing used to drive me crazy, but the trick I’ve learned is to use the right cleaner (simple green and the pledge multisurface work well, or sometimes just a drop of dawn on a soaked paper towel) and I have to “buff” once dry with a dry towel/paper towel to make the smears disappear. One I figured that out, worked like a charm.
Torin
Oh I know how to get them to look nice — but they don’t stay that way for more than 5 seconds and I hate that it requires multiple steps. Lighter colored granite is just lower maintenance. Or better yet, I dream of redoing my kitchen in poured and painted concrete.
Kitchen Mission
Think quartz will have the same problem? We are doing dark gray/black in caesarstone (raven). The sample block doesn’t look shiny but your comment has me worried! We chose it because it looks like concrete but with easier care.
Anon
We did a from-the-walls-out remodel of our kitchen 15 years ago.
– I wish we had sprung for a stationary center island with a sink in it. We couldn’t do a center range top because of ventilation issues, but we could have put the sink in the center – it would have been expensive, and warranted tearing up the floor, but it would have been worth it.
– I also regret not getting a six-burner stovetop. That extra room would really come in handy sometimes. We did get high-pressure burners – if you like to cook, high-power burners are fantastic.
-I sprung for a double wall oven and I love it. We don’t use the second oven much, but at the holidays and for parties, or before bake sales, it is a lifesaver.
– I’m glad we didn’t spring for granite countertops and got top-quality laminate instead. It is not cool or fashionable to have laminate countertops but they are low-maintenance, have not stained, and still look nearly new.
– We spent a LOT of money on our cabinets – they are rock-maple fronts with a totally plain door design, in a blond wood color. People always think we got new cabinets; they’re 15 years old. They look like they’re from Ikea but they’re KraftMaid. They’re easy to clean and would be easy to refinish if we had to. Think carefully about complex or ornate cabinet doors, especially ones with glass. Those look great new, but cleaning them is a pain, and if they’re not kept clean they look terrible. There’s a lot I’d rather do with my spare time than polish cabinet doors. Also, you have to keep glass-fronted cabinets organized, all the time.
-If you have small children or plan to have them, see if you can get cabinets with built-in security features, or at least make sure you pick designs that can be secured easily.
-Pull-out shelves are awesome and I wish we’d put them in every bottom cabinet. Corner lazy Susans are less awesome; we lose food in the back of ours all the time.
– We picked a tile that had enough texture and color variegation that it doesn’t show dirt easily, and brown grout. Highly recommended.
– If the flooring people tell you a flooring choice is probably too soft for a kitchen, believe them. It’s a kitchen. Stuff gets dropped. We have chipped tiles from falling jars and pans, and we picked the hardest tile we could find. My mom has Saltillo tile in her kitchen (was there when they bought the house) it’s pockmarked with chips.
-As for sinks – mine is stainless steel and I hate it. We have hard water, and I feel like I’ve spent half my life keeping the sink clean. It’s on our list for next year to replace the sink; not sure what I’ll decide to get.
October
Re: sink, we moved into a house with a white sink and I thought I was going to love it. But it is so hard to keep it looking clean. It also has white caulk around the top near the counter and that always looks grimy. I still like white sinks in *theory* and on Pinterest, but I don’t know that I’d choose one again.
MNF
Does anyone have stainless steel counters? I like the industrial look of them, but wonder how they wear.
Anonymama
We have a small section of stainless steel counters, next to the stove. They get some very fine scratches from scrubbing but to me it looks fine, easy to clean, so nice that it doesn’t stain or burn or melt. You do need to wipe with dry towel after wet if you want them to look really nice, but it only takes 2 seconds (and I’m generally pretty lazy about stuff like that.)
Anonymous
We have a large stainless single basin and keep a smaller plastic dishpan in it. We can use that for double basin kind of tasks, but have the option to take it out to soak sheet pans, etc. I love our sink generally. My husband thinks it is a little deep – he has to bend to reach things on the bottom of it more. We have quartz counter tops, which I like so far, and the sink is an under mount. Countertops are generally priced per square foot and the price includes installation, so it is easy to figure out the cost. We ended up using a local tile store, which was cheaper than IKEA, and it was one of the easiest elements of our renovation.
regp03
Due to life stuff, I lived with a kitchen I hated and and spent nearly four years planning the renovation before hubby and I were both ready to pull the trigger. We had it planned to the point that I was giving the kitchen designers and contractors new ideas instead of the other way around. I don’t really have anything that I wish I had known before, but some stuff that hasn’t been mentioned:
1) If you plan to install a back splash, think carefully about where you want it to end and how you want it to end. We had electrical that would have been split across the edges of the back splash if we had ended it with the cabinets and the combination of doorways and code would not have let us move the switches and outlets. We ended up deciding to carry the back splash up from the floor to a little lower than frame rail height until it met with the door trim to either side of our cabinets and finished the top on the part without cabinets with decorative trim. This looks more luxurious than stopping at the ends of the cabinets and provides a back splash around our trash can for when things get messy- much easier clean up. (like beside the dishwasher in this pic: https://st.hzcdn.com/fimgs/699124b70f240b31_1212-w500-h400-b0-p0–contemporary-kitchen.jpg)
2) Really think about if you want your trash can in the cabinets. We decided on a nice stainless trash/ recycling split can with foot pedal because we didn’t want to put raw chicken hands all over the cabinets and we didn’t want to have to tell people where it was every five minutes when we have parties.
3) Cabinet doors get greasy and dusty. Think about if you like the look of ornamental molding enough to keep it clean before investing in cabinetry with ornate details. In a year, clean but simple cabinet doors will look better than dust bunnies in every nook and crevice.
4) If you have a corner, I’m sure you have thought about what kind of cabinet and possible lazy susan you want there. I knew we had found the right contractor when we finally found one with a new idea to offer- instead of having your corner cabinets/ counters shaped like two perpendicular rectangles butting up to each other (a 90 degree angle), make the turn with two 45 degree angles (Think like a normal corner, but fit a triangle into the two rectangles). No one that has cooked in my kitchen can believe how much more useful the corner space is with this tiny extra bit of countertop. It is also a lot more comfortable to work in and doesn’t cut into the kitchen’s traffic pattern. (a picture’s worth a thousand words: https://st.hzcdn.com/fimgs/1d517aac021562da_9139-w500-h400-b0-p0–traditional-kitchen.jpg)
And lastly, my two cents on the kitchen sink. I have this one and it is amazing: http://www.kraususa.com/kitchen/kitchen-sinks/khu123-32-32-inch-undermount-70-30-double-bowl-16-gauge-stainless-steel-kitchen-sink.html
Sad about Portland
Is anyone following the stories about the two young men who were killed for telling a neonazi to stop harassing people? I just found out one of them graduated last spring from my alma mater, which doesn’t change the story, but did make it more personal for me.
Heroes, in my book, but they should never have had to be.
Anon
Yes, and it’s heartbreaking. I just don’t understand the hate in our country right now. The noose left at the African-American Museum in DC, the slurs spray painted everywhere, the protests about confederate statues being taken down…It’s all weighing heavily on me today.
lsw
Agreed. My heart seized when I read that about the noose this morning. Almost unbelievable. I have been feeling really misanthropic like some people are just garbage. I know that’s not helpful, but what am I supposed to think about someone who leaves a noose at the African American Museum?
Marshmallow
I get very emotional just reading the news about them. It’s so sad. They were absolutely heroes and I am so thankful people like that exist in the world but I’m heartbroken about it.
And very scary– I take public transportation all the time and once had a very heated exchange with a guy who was spewing racist insults (at no one in particular, just “protesting”). I did not even think about it, just yelled back at him. Looking back on it now I realize I was really lucky. But f- yeah I’d do it again.
Anon
There’s a third one, too, who survived. And his public statements have been very bada$$. They’re all heroes. I particularly feel for the girls and I hope they’re getting the help they need now. I know one of them has said she feels guilty and feels like those two men died because of her. It’s all incredibly tragic.
Curious
The girls are on my mind, too. There’s a YouCaring fundraiser for them here: https://www.youcaring.com/survivorsofthemaxattack-833557.
brokentoe
I’ve made a career shift and obtained my real estate license a few months ago. I’ve sold four houses and have my first closing next week. What have you received as real estate closing gifts that you really liked or were really dumb? I’m looking for memorable gifts or experiences that will help me cement the all-important referrals!
Anonymous
a nice bottle of champagne!
AIMS
Ditto!
Anonymous
I hate champagne! Seriously.
Really?
And you can’t think of one person in your whole life that would appreciate a bottle sometime in the next year? I mean I get being annoyed if someone who knows you well gets you a useless gift but your realtor getting you something most people can either use or repurpose? I’d much rather an alcohol I don’t drink or a box of chocolates, etc., than Michael Aram salt & pepper shakers or some picture frame that doesn’t fit my décor.
AttiredAttorney
Yeah, I was actually kind of bummed that my realtor gave me just a bottle of champagne. No personality or uniqueness. A gift I was really jealous of that one of my friend’s got at the closing for the first home she ever purchased was a small sketch/watercolor of the exterior of her home done by a local artist. It was small (postcard sized) but the realtor stuck it in a nice frame, and I think it’s beautiful. I think this idea works better when you are working mainly with houses and first or early home buyers though.
Anon
I collect Fiestaware and my realtor gave me a Fiestaware tea pot, tea towels and some nice hand soap. It was years ago and I still use the tea pot and think of what a sweet gesture it was.
Anonymous
We didn’t get a gift from our realtor. I didn’t even know that was a thing!
Jen
Our house was $800k and she had to do no work to find us a house- we brought to to her. She better have given us a little gift ;). Of course she did all the closing work but she didn’t have to go in and out of houses for months.
ELS
We also didn’t get a gift from ours, but we used a family friend who we see every Sunday for dinner. I was just glad she put up with us as first-time home buyers, to be frank.
I like all the ideas on here, though. I would have LOVED a print of the historic area where my house is to put up. In fact, I may see if I can find such a thing for my entry.
Anonymous
Me either, but she earned her fee.
Jen
Got a framed print map of the historic district in our town, purchased from a locally owned store.
One closing got 2 random bottles of $12’wine, that was sorta weird. One $25 bottle, or a bottle of champagne, would have been better. This kind of felt like she grabbed something from her counter.
On the wine theme, if there’s anything local you could do wine/craft beer that has a tie to the area.
anon
We got a gift card to Home Depot which is always useful.
One realtor also gave house-warming baskets with artisan bread, fancy salt, and a bottle of wine with a card that said something along the lines “Bread, that this house may never know hunger, Salt, that life may always have flavor. And wine, that joy and prosperity may reign forever.”
Jen
I have seen these too.
AnonMidwest
That’s from It’s a Wonderful Life. I mean, i gather it comes from somewhere else, but It’s a Wonderful Life is the first time I heard of those gifts/sayings.
anon a mouse
Our realtor gave us a gift card to a nice restaurant in town. When winter hit, she dropped off And then a year later, sent us a sweet note marking the anniversary of our move date.
The best gift we got was from our loan officer, who sent a self-inking stamp with our new return address. Still using it several years later!
anon a mouse
Whoops, something got cut off. When winter hit, she dropped off an ice scraper for our car and a bag of ice melt for our sidewalk.
January
Ha! My realtor dropped off the face of the earth once the deal was done – I even referred friends to her and she didn’t respond to them. So I saw that and thought, “Oh, good, I’m not the only person who has had this happen.” I hope she’s okay.
Tech Comm Geek
The Home Depot/Menards/Lowes gift card is our favorite. Our realtor knew we were going to be changing things at our new house, and we did appreciate it.
Rainbow Hair
It’s a Jewish tradition, as far as I know — salt and bread.
MNF
Also got a home depot gift card and used it!
Anon
Not crystal candlestick holders from Tiffany. I think only a minority of the population still uses stuff like that. If the gifts aren’t going to be personalized gifts to the person/couple I think something consumable is better like champagne or a nice bottle of wine or maybe plant of the month type thing. A gift card to a local restaurant or store might be a good idea because its also sort of welcoming to the new neighborhood.
Anon
We bought a house with a pool, so some pool towels, an inflatable raft, and some goggles – super thoughtful!
Bette
I’ve got a gift cert to a local restaurant in my new neighborhood and also a bottle of champagne and a book on DIY home repairs (we were buying a fixer upper and are doing most of the work alone.)
Anonymous
We got a really awesome wool blanket that I adore – I joke that it’s my $225,000 blanket.
Anonymous
I got a heavy duty wood cutting board for the kitchen that I use everyday! (from Personalization Mall if I had to guess)
it’s personalized – we each have own last name so it just has our first names which I love that he respected/noticed:
_______ and ______’s Kitchen
and on the underside there’s his company name etched! Definitely subtle marketing.
Anon
We got one of these too.
Anonymous
We didn’t get a gift, but our realtor gives us chocolates around the holidays. He was my mom’s realtor (who is good at providing him referrals), and she’s received gift certificates from local restaurants and pies from him — maybe I need to step up my referral game :)
Anonymous
Unless you can do something truly personal- like the Fiestaware example above- stick with champagne or a gift card to a restaurant in the new neighborhood.
Good: We closed on our first house right around when my kid was born, and our realtor got us baby clothes.
Lame: for our second house, our realtor got us a cutting board with our last name on it. It clearly is what she gets every client. It was particularly annoying because she knows that I hate clutter and it was a cheap cutting board (and her commissions on selling our first house/buying our second were north of $60K).
KS IT Chick
Our agent got us a decent sized gift card for a local hardware/home improvement store. It wasn’t terribly original, but it was definitely practical & useful.
Anon
I’ve bought a few houses and my favorite was a monogrammed doormat. Loved that! Just a single letter in black with a border. You always need a new doormat for a new house!
Please don’t give a gift basket of that strange pasta & sauce you see at TJ Maxx with brands no one’s ever heard of and sits on the shelf for heaven knows how long. That was weird.
KateMiddletown
We have that same doormat from our realtor! Very cute. Our loan officer also gave us a self-inking stamp. Both were super!
CountC
I gave giftcards and a small framed picture of the home that I turned into a “watercolor” print using the Waterlogue app. First time homebuyers really seemed to love the watercolor print.
Anonymous
LOVE this idea. We don’t own a home yet, but our wedding coordinator (who came with our venue rental) gave us a watercolor print of the venue as a gift and it’s one of my favorite things ever.
Bonnie
A Target gift card.
H
We got a gift basket from a local grocery store. It included 2 bottles of wine (have no idea how expensive), chocolate truffles, assortment of cheese, assortment of crackers, fancy jarred olives, and a couple of spreads. I was totally not expecting it and it was really nice. And it gave me the idea to get those gift baskets for others!
Frank
We received a Christmas ornament with our house painted on it. Such a thoughtful and memorable gift, esp as we are moving next year will be a nice keepsake.
cbackson
I got a pie and it was amazing. The pie was actually from my mortgage lender; my realtor and I are high school friends and we went for fancy drinks after.
Maddie Ross
If you get them a gift card, get them one that actually will buy something. My realtor got us a $250 gift card (so no small potatoes, though we got him a super big commission from both sale and purchase) to a super nice furniture store. $250 there would buy like a single candlestick holder. It barely made a dent in the cost of any of the furniture there and we couldn’t have afforded any of the pieces even with the card. Or would have wanted to with a dog and two small children. It was such a waste. I would have preferred champagne.
Cat
What not to do: Email the couple 1.5 years later congratulating them on the 1-year anniversary of their purchase; harass them with texts about picking up a pie for Thanksgiving from your office (um, we were flying out of town, even if we wanted your pie we couldn’t have used it); somewhat creepily leave random condiments on their steps with a business card.
Anonymous
Your realtor and my realtor seem to have the same marketing team.
Pies at thanksgiving, and I’ve gotten cookie cutters, and other random things left on the doorstep….
Anon
My realtor for my first condo in law school got me (single, first-time homebuyer) a lowe’s gift card and a basic tool kit. 10 years later and that tool kit is still being used in our house.
Legal Canuck
We got a basket with several gift cards ($20.00 each) for local businesses (within walking distance of our home), we also got a map of the community, business directory, and community brochure for clubs and activities in our area. Not really expensive but super thoughtful. I really liked the information about the community.
Anon
A bottle of champagne and 8 hours of a handyman’s time. We used the heck out of that guy moving in – far more than 8 hours – but it was so thoughtful.
lsw
8 hours of a handyman’s time is GENIUS.
Davis
I got a set of 4 small classes with my last initial etched on them. They’re nice and I use them. It could be tricky if there’s a mixed set of last names with your clients or someone is in the process of changing names.
Davis
Glasses!
Senior Attorney
The very very best closing gift ever was when my realtor paid for a cleaning service to come in and clean the house on the day of closing, so it was clean when I got the keys. Adding a bottle of champagne would be icing on the cake!
pugsnbourbon
Y’all have some NICE realtors!
Senior Attorney
Well with the commission on even a modest house in So Cal, they can afford it! ;)
Nessie
Our realtor paid for a chimney inspection and cleaning for us. She also paid for a cleaning service to come in do 4 hours of deep cleaning.
Anonymous
An Etsy address stamp with my new address! Still use it years later and love it.
Ace
Be careful with food. My realtor sent us an Omaha Steak package that would have been really nice if I ate red meat (I don’t).
D. Meagle
Real estate attorney here. On the sale side, I see realtors bring bottle of champagne, wine or liquor. On the buy side, I’ve see nice keychains. When I bought, my realtor bought us a little dish for keys and things.
sombra
Any advice for doing whole30? June is my month and I’m hoping that all the good produce that comes out this month makes it a little easier.
Scarlett
Accept that it will get boring, plan to have a lot of repeat meals that are easy because you have to cook every single meal pretty much to stay compliant. Stock up on cauliflower rice from the freezer section (a quick scramble of that with eggs and a veggie was a many nights lifesaving meal), nutpods on Amazon solved my creamer problem, meal plan so you’re not at the store every day.
Scarlett
Oh, and when you think you’re about to die at work with boring lunches, get a burger wrapped in lettuce and it will make your whole week.
Fishie
Did my first this year and really liked it – good luck!
Plan, plan, plan – make a calendar and plan your meals so there is less temptation to grab something off plan or puzzle over what to make
Limit options for breakfast and lunch for simplicity – we did hardboiled eggs and a Lara Bar every day for breakfast, and then bento boxes with tuna salad, olives, pickles, berries, carrots, other veggies or fruits.
Take everything non- compliant out of your pantry and put it in a plastic tote out of site. Then there’s no chance of an “oops” moment.
Prepare to spend a lot of $ and time at the grocery store! My fridge/freezer couldn’t hold all that meat! Plus defrosting meat slows things down so I tried to buy fresh.
Places I was surprised by hidden sugar/soy/sulfites – tuna, chicken broth, mayo, mustard, vinegar
Potatoes saved my sanity – I ate a lot of potatoes.
Good luck, you will do great!
anon
+1 to budgeting A LOT of time in the grocery store and doing all the dishes. I found google/pinterest to be a bit overwhelming as a resource for possible meal plans and was so glad that I had purchased the Whole30 cookbook. It was definitely the best investment I made as it helped me expand my recipe repertoire and even my cooking skills. LaCroix was also a lifesaver for me. Good luck and enjoy!
ELS
Plan ahead as much as possible. Herbs and spices are your friend. Don’t be afraid to (occasionally) eat an epic bar or an Rx bar in a pinch (I would do this if I unexpectedly had to stay late and would have normally gotten takeout).
I just finished 21 days of it (then got violently ill from a coworker’s illness and stopped). I’m re-starting today as well.
My typical breakfast involved two eggs (sometimes in purgatory!), an avocado, and some kind of munchy veggie. If I was feeling really adventurous, veggie omelette with avocado on top. I also made the sweet potato panchetta/bacon and apple hash that you can find on the interwebs. I would do a half serving with an egg or two.
Otherwise, I am a huge fan of veggies but not salads, so I typically did protein + roasted or grilled veggies most days for lunch and/or dinner. I did make a taco salad with cabbage as the base that was awesome. I also made a quick homemade tomato sauce with lean ground beef and put it over grilled zucchini. My husband (who was not really doing W30 with me) loved it.
I didn’t eat a lot of nuts, and usually ate a serving of fruit per day, usually a small apple with almond butter as part of a meal or some berries. I ate lots of sweet potatoes, and occasionally white potatoes with rosemary, olive oil, and pepper. But my typical side dish was to combine all the veggies I thought would roast well (brussels sprouts! asparagus! potatoes! Broccoli! Cauliflower!) and toss them with olive oil, salt, and pepper and then grill a protein.
I also made awesome sweet potato chips.
Meow
If you have a slow cooker, there are a lot of good Whole30 recipes out there–helped me batch and have lunches for the week.
Anon
Go to a farmers market on the weekend. Prep on Sunday. Make all of the sauces – mayo, ranch, sunshine sauce, and all the guacamole you can handle. The sauces are what made it doable for me. A hand blender is key here. You can make mayo or ranch in 30 seconds.
Prepare to be cranky. The “Kill All The Things” phase is no joke.
Buy some good compliant oils. I now love avocado oil for any non-cooking purpose. And I like cooking with ghee now.
When you make dinner, make an extra serving for tomorrow’s lunch and don’t take it out to the table (I don’t know if you have kids, but my son will eat anything and everything that I serve so hoarding my lunch was the way to go.)
Senior Attorney
Taco salads make good lunches — fry up a bunch of seasoned meat crumbles in advance and have it on hand. If you don’t eat red meat you can use ground or sliced poultry.
Get or make a roasted chicken and use it for dinner then the leftovers can make salad or soup or whatever all week. Bamboo shoots are a good substitute for noodles in chicken soup.
When you get sick of eggs for breakfast, I like a mix of berries and sliced banana with a small sprinkle of walnuts on top.
Trader Joe’s organic mayonnaise is Whole30 compliant. Also I am obsessed with their cabbage/kale/Brussels sprouts salad mix.
If you like cilantro, chop up a bunch and add it to your salad for a delicious kick.
Chicken salad is great: mayo, diced chicken, diced celery, halved red grapes, chopped walnuts, salt and pepper. Add a bunch of curry powder to taste for a different delicious version.
Cherry tomatoes are delicious.
Good luck! You can do this!! We are rooting for you!!
Senior Attorney
Oh, and I paid the $15 or whatever for the daily emails from Whole30.com and felt like it was worth it.
Fishie
Yes, TJ’s mayo was a life saver for me!
Today is the Day (Maybe)
I completed the Whole30 in January of this year and my saving grace was a wonderful bakery/shop that had Whole30 compliant meals and sides. So at least a few times a week, I didn’t have to think about what to eat for dinner and it was a life saver for this working mom. Paleo (and Whole30) are becoming more mainstream so I would look around and see if there is something similar in your town. I also bought a huge bag full of compliant Larabars and Epic bars to to office just in case I had to stay late or I got hangry (and I warned my assistant that I was doing a Whole30). The best piece of advice that I got was to not think of foods as a dinner food or food you only eat at breakfast, so I would often eat last night’s leftovers for breakfast the next morning. Sure it’s a little weird eating soup for breakfast in the beginning, but it make things easier. You can do it!
Camille
Mm la fleur has pop up in SF – considering it. Anyone been and did you like the pop up? Was there pressure to buy a lot?
Anonymous
The pop-up in Philly was great, and I didn’t feel pressure to buy. But you will want to buy so much!
Delta Dawn
I went last time they were in SF– LOVED it. No pressure to buy. I tried on everything she suggested and divided it into Yes and No. I had too many Yes, so I bought my top three, added the rest to my wish list, and have been purchasing them over time.
AnonHere
My husband’s brother and his wife are going through a divorce. I haven’t talked to SIL yet but wondering if I should. We have been friendly in the past, but have grown apart in the last few years. So far, I’ve just been staying out of it – but wondering if I should at least reach out to say I’m thinking about her and available if she needs to talk. She’s an only child, so maybe she could use some support. Does anyone have personal experience they’re willing to share?
Anonymous
What? No. Your husband’s brother is your family, not your soon-to-be-ex SIL. It’s not your job to reach out and offer her support. You don’t have to be rude or excommunicate her if she tries to talk to you, but if I were your husband and his brother and I found out you were initiating contact with her to offer support about the divorce, I’d be very hurt.
I’m an only child, fwiw. Most of us have friends and co-workers we can lean on, we’re not all lonely abandoned weirdos.
Anon
J e s u s, not all divorces have to split people into Us vs. Them.
Anonymous
That’s true and if the divorce is amicable and BIL is cool with her reaching out to his soon-to-be-ex, that’s great! But many divorces aren’t amicable and her loyalty needs to lie with her BIL. If he would consider her reaching out to be a betrayal, she shouldn’t do it.
Monday
As the SIL in the situation, I would love to hear from you. My husband left me last year, and aside from all the hurt from him, I’ve felt very sad that not a single member of his family has contacted me. It’s as if I never existed. I feel like I’ve been abruptly kicked out of one of the branches of my family. We had spent a lot of time together, vacationed together, exchanged gifts regularly, had contact independent of my ex-husband, all of it–and now radio silence, presumably forever.
One of his friends did email, and though it’s not like we’re going to have a close friendship, I really appreciated the gesture. I’d message her in a very open-ended way saying that you’re thinking of her, but setting no expectations for her reaction. You’re kind to think of it.
Anonymous
I think it very much depends on 1) the family and 2) the nature of the divorce.
I too believe that you don’t necessarily cut out divorced family members – exactly as Monday said – because they were your family for however long they were married. Especially when there are kids involved.
There are several divorces in my family and I invited my “ex-uncle” to my wedding, he still comes to birthdays, graduations, family functions. Some people think divorce is the end-all-be-all (and yes! sometimes it’s really bad and dirty and it needs to happen that way) but I don’t think a hard rule is appropriate. In a hippy-dippy way I think we should all be more loving and caring these days.
AIMS
I agree with this. When I had a prior long term relationship end (not marriage, I know, but still…) what Monday describes was the hardest part. You remember it’s someone’s birthday randomly and yet you aren’t supposed to even acknowledge it. It’s a weird transition. I would say maybe OP doesn’t have to say “I’m here if you want to talk” but I don’t see anything wrong with sending a text or email to just say “I know it’s a rough time, I’m thinking of you and wish you well.”
Also: Monday – how are you holding up??
Monday
Thanks for asking. I’m hanging in. I’ve learned not to make any assumptions about which times are going to be easier or harder–just basically taking each day as it comes.
Unfortunately, my 2 closest local friends are moving away this summer. I’m concerned about feeling isolated after that. Again, just really trying to keep a shorter-term perspective and not get overwhelmed with hypotheticals. I’m very grateful that my material circumstances are solid: job, home, etc. It’s mostly emotional rebuilding I have to do.
AIMS
Shorter term perspective sounds very wise. I think one day at a time is a good way to tackle difficult things. If you get too lonely, please post here. I’m rooting for you to get through this and end up in a better place emotionally. I know it can’t be easy. But you have internet friends thinking of you and wishing you well.
Monday
Thanks so much.
cbackson
When I got divorced, my ex-husband’s family were, generally, really lovely about it. My 30th birthday was shortly after he left me, and I was far from my own family, and my SIL and MIL actually threw me a little party with my toddler niece and nephew – it was a wonderful distraction and so kind. I eventually was the one to cut off contact, because I needed space to heal and find a new life as someone who was no longer part of their family – and they were incredibly understanding about that as well. I have nothing but good feelings towards them and I was able to sort of gradually transition out of that part of my life rather than having it cut off, which was hard. I do sometimes really miss them, especially my SIL and the kiddos.
That said, the divorce (while surprising and fairly traumatic for me) was not contentious, which made it easier to have that kind of relationship.
Bette
I think this answer also really depends on how contentious the divorce is and if they have kids together.
If they have kids together and the divorce is not horribly ugly, I’d reach out with a kind and simple email just saying that you were thinking of her.
Anonymous
+1
anonshmanon
+2. In my extended family, this is normal when the couple has kids and the divorce was not overly messy. Both ex-spouses still come to family gathering, the only exception being one of my ex-uncles who is a mega-douche.
tribble
What does your husband think? It’s his brother so presumably he has some insight into whether this would be appropriate.
There’s not a bright line rule for this, it really depends on the particulars of the breakup. Are there kids in the picture? Then the family might want to be on speaking terms with STBX-SIL even if brother isn’t crazy about the idea. Was there abuse/infidelity/one person doing something clearly unacceptable? That changes the equation too. And if you don’t know the specifics of the breakup then I’d hesitate to reach out. What if she was abusive to him? You’d feel terrible for being supportive of your BIL’s abuser. Which takes me back to my original point – talk to your husband.
Anonymous
+1 to this. Reaching out may or may be appropriate depending on circumstances and you need to talk to your husband first.
Fishie
Why not always be kind if you have the chance? I might not offer to talk – if she takes you up on it you could find yourself caught in the middle of something, But reaching out to say, “I am sorry you are going through this and I am thinking about you,” seems appropriate.
Anonymous
This is such good advice, just summarized so succinctly? Why not be kind if you have the chance?
Anonymous
Because it’s really not as simple as just “be kind”…being kind to the sister-in-law might entail being very unkind to the BIL if she cheated on him or, g-d forbid, abused him.
Fishie
I’m going to give the OP the benefit of the doubt and assume that she would use her common sense and not be asking this question if the SIL had done something hideous.
Shopaholic
This and assume good intentions (thanks SA) are some of the things that I’ve picked up here that is making me a better person. I love it!
AnonHere
Thanks, everyone, for the variety of opinions. There are kids involved, which is why I feel that staying in light contact with SIL might not be a bad idea. I do know the details of the separation and, while SIL is more in the wrong in my opinion, neither party is blameless. Either way, I’ll definitely talk with my husband and his brother before doing anything. Especially good point just to say “thinking of you” without an offer to talk. I definitely don’t want to get in the middle.
cbackson
FWIW, the “thinking of you” is also very low-pressure for her in a way, which can be good. It’s entirely possible she really doesn’t want to talk about this with your side of the family, even if she feels friendly toward you. The acknowledgement can help her feel like she’s not being frozen out.
Anon
I’m divorced. One of my sisters reached out to my ex husband, who hates my guts and has never spoken to me again, and tried to maintain a friendship with him. It felt like a betrayal after a very bad end to a miserable marriage.
Anon
This may seem random and may not be helpful; if it’s not, I apologize. When I was a kid, my uncle divorced his first wife and she disappeared from our lives overnight. We had been fairly close with them and I had spent a lot of time with her, and then, poof – not only was she gone, never to be seen again, but we weren’t allowed to even mention her ever again. I later found out that my uncle left my aunt for basically no reason, so it wasn’t like she did something terrible (I asked). So, if there are kids involved, maybe folks could think about that when they advocate for people disappearing out of the life of a divorced person. It was confusing as heck for me when I was a kid. It would have been great to at least have seen my ex-aunt one last time and to have her say, we may not see each other again soon but I’ll always remember you. That would have meant a lot.
AnonHere
YES, this is it exactly. There are kids involved (we have kids, and so do they) and the idea of an Aunt just disappearing seems sad and confusing.
Landscapers
Wanting a gut check to see if this is par for the course or if I need a new landscape company. They just mow & blow, do spring/fall cleanups etc- no major maintence.
So our “mow day” is tuesday. When it rains on Monday, they show up Wednesday because they are catching up. Usually not until the end of the day. They somehow forgot us the first week of the year so our yard was basically going to seed by the time I called them (had to call and ask).
THis past week was a Monday holiday. It’s Thursday and they’re still not here. Our lawn looks terrible and even if they come today, then it’ll only be 4 days until they are back next Tuesday.
A surprise rain bumping the schedule, I get. But is it reasonable that we are the ones that get bumped all the time? And a holiday weekend, couldn’t they speed the Monday business across Saturday (they work Saturdays) and Tuesday as not to totally screw up the entire week?
Not to mention once or twice they’ve come by, seen we don’t need a mow (late summer) and invoiced is for it anyway (we get a bill that’s $x x #mows).
I feel like I have way to much communication with them re: problems. But also, they’re landscapers and it’s grass.
Nobody’s life is on the line.
anon
Get a new company- there are lots of them out there.
I’m even less lenient on the spray companies. Sod is expensive and I’m not interested in having someone ruin it because they can’t get their act together.
JuniorMinion
Ha. My landscapers don’t even have cell phones and routinely show up at a different time than expected if there is bad weather / a schedule problem . I have trouble believing an extra 4 days makes that much of a difference in yard maintenance – and I am in Houston where the bayou would take over again if we let it. I would say it depends on how much you are paying. The guys who do my yard are really reasonable (think $20 / mow) and do my whole street. I could see being more upset if you are paying a lot more / paying for more “service”
Torin
I had similar problems and just ended up buying an electric lawnmower for about $230 and doing it myself. It doesn’t take me that long and it’s less obnoxious than trying to keep on top of a flaky lawn service.
Landscapers
We used to, but we have more lawn now. It’s a whole Saturday morning for us between the mowing (ride on) and weed-wacking.
We threw out or push mower when it broke and never bought the ride on we’d need.
Torin
Mine is about 3k sq feet of grass so I definitely don’t need a ride on and mowing it myself only takes like half an hour.
Agree with others that if it bothers you, hire someone else. If you’re not satisfied with the work they’re doing, no need to keep paying them.
Anon
Yeah if it were just mowing I’d do it myself too. But the weeding and edging and raking and all of that – same reason we have housecleaners. Not my idea of a good time.
Senior Attorney
If you’re not happy just get a new company.
I’ve had good luck finding people by asking around the neighborhood. My current guy is the one who does the house across the street.
Anon
If it bothers you enough, get a new company. Otherwise learn to deal with it.
anon
+1
But I would never allow them to get away with charging me if they didn’t do the work.
Rome!
Good morning! I’m 34.5 hours away from heading off to 12 glorious days of vacation in Rome and along the Amalfi Coast. Any recommendations for beauty products, grocery store items that I could bring back, or other “normal” things that I should pick while I’m there? (I’ve already researched how to ship back limoncello). Thanks is advance!
Eurotreats
This may sound totally stupid but whenever I am in Europe I buy the Dove aerosol deoderant. The scent they have is so nice and unlike anything I have ever found in the U.S.
Also, Paprika Pringles. You will not regret it. I had to change my name for this comment because everyone who knows me knows Paprika Pringles are my obsession.
Live Painting
+10000000000 to Paprika Pringles! My friends and I have an understanding that whenever one of us goes somewhere that has paprika pringles there is an obligation to bring them back for the rest of us.
Eurotreats
Same! PS – they exist in Mexico!
Senior Attorney – they are ridiculous. The closest think I have found here are the BBQ Pringles but Paprika flavor is smokier, spicier, and less sweet.
It makes me sad that I can’t get them here, but at the same time it makes them more of a special treat.
Senior Attorney
Right?
And I will return the favor and say when you go to Canada you must check out the ketchup flavored Lay’s Potato Chips. Delish!!!
Senior Attorney
Wait… what?
That sounds amazing!
Violet
me too! I love a cotton fragrance of the spray stuff (various brands) not available where I live! #tribe
Anon.
Labello lip balm from the drugstore. I buy at least 5 whenever I’m in Europe (like every few years) and always wish I bought more. Yes you can get it on Amazon and yes it’s supposedly Nivea, but it’s the BEST.
Anon
+1 – love love love labello. Also I’m a huge fan of Italian cosmetics. Pupa Vamp Extreme mascara, Wycon cream eyeshadow (lasts all day with no smudges), Kiko automatic eyebrow pencil, and Madina stick illuminator. I also like pocket coffee (chocolate with a shot of espresso), anything with truffles in it, jars of pesto, truffle bouillon cubes. So jealous!
Dinnie
This is going to sound weird and out of season, but Italian hot chocolate is amazing! It’s super thick and delicious and kind of like pudding. If you’re in a grocery store pick up a box of Ciobar hot chocolate mix and save it for a gloomy day. It’s totally worth it.
Rome!
These sound amazing – Thank you! 32 hours left….
January
I’m jealous; can you take me in your suitcase??
Underpaid
Venting because I just learned that a friend is getting paid more per hour for a student job than I get paid at my full-time job. Same industry, similar roles, just at different places. He doesn’t want to go into this particular industry; it’s just a part-time job to pay the rent while he finishes his degree. He just got this new job and I’m trying to be happy for him, but it’s frustrating that he makes more per hour in a “just to pay the rent” job than I do in my actual career. A few clarifying notes- the job he’s in is reserved for students so I wouldn’t have been eligible to apply for it, and my current hourly pay isn’t flexible until I’ve been at my job for a year. I worked my @$$ off to get this job in my field and I’m happy with it, it’s just killing me that he’s getting paid so much more!
Anomnibus
Is it possible the job is specifically for work-study eligible students? It could be that the extra money is meant to offset his school expenses, especially if students are only allowed to work a limited number of hours for on-campus jobs. Where I went to school you couldn’t work more than 20 hours per week on campus.
Is he making more money overall, or just per hour? Is his standard of living better than yours? Is he living like a normal student, or is he dining on lobster and living it up in a high rise condo?
Underpaid
It’s a job reserved for students, but it’s not a work-study position. He lives like a student and works around 20 hours/week, but the job isn’t really intended to offset expenses. The organization he works for just tends to pay more overall than where I work. TBH, there’s probably some bitterness there too, since I’d love to work there but they weren’t hiring for any non-student positions.
You’re right though, because my job is full time I technically make more per year than he does. It just frustrates me that he makes more for an hour of the same work!
Anomnibus
And it’s fair to be frustrated! I would just avoid directing any anger or bitterness at him. He didn’t ask to make more than you, it’s not his fault his company pays better in general, he needs money just as much as you do and it can be tough to make ends meet when you’re a student. Maybe, when the time is right, he can help you get a job there, then you’ll both be getting paid well!
Now, if he’s swimming in cash and flaunting it obnoxiously, that’s different.
Anonymous
Maybe you can talk to your management about a salary increase if you’re not making a market salary?
Anondc
Yep, cosign this. Shift your frustration to your company for now paying you fairly and act accordingly.
October
That is frustrating. Do you get benefits? If so, then even if your hourly pay is less, your overall compensation could be more.
Anon for this
Paging the person at the small non-profit thinking about asking about maternity leave:
I was in your shoes but at a really small law firm. It was small enough that I didn’t have FMLA protections, we had no short term disability policy, no written maternity plan and my sick time was fuzzy “when you are sick you are sick.” Like you, I needed to know what the deal was before I could decide if I could responsibly get pregnant. I hate having to say that. It is so backwards. But, I make a good amount more than my husband and we couldn’t live on his salary alone. I needed a job to return to. I also looked into private STD policies and couldn’t find any.
When my boss was considering hiring another young female associate, we were discussing whether we had enough work to sustain her. I suggested that it would be good to have another person for coverage generally, for vacations, and especially if anyone needed any sort of extended medical leave. I used that opportunity to mention that we had no STD policy and we should consider changing that or allowing vacation to be rolled over for that purpose. He initially didn’t seem to take it seriously so I added, “and if you are going to revise the handbook, it would probably make sense to address maternity leave.” He got super excited and said “do you have something to tell me!!!!!” I super awkwardly responded no, maybe in the future, something I’m considering, but I need to know what that would look like here. In retrospect, I should have said, no, but the new hire will probably want to know.
Either way it worked out well where he assured me that I’d have a job, they’d work with me, etc. but he still didn’t define what that would mean. Now we have STD insurance so I have that too. He was also kind enough to inform me of the elimination period on that since if one needed to use it within a certain number of months of the firm getting it, they wouldn’t be covered.
I never said I was trying but I did say that I was just considering my options for the future or something to that effect. I totally understand your position and why you need to know. A year and a half later I’m still trying to get pregnant so I haven’t had to find out what the real policy is yet. If I ever get there, I’ll let you know.
ohc
Thank you! I am so grateful to you for sharing your experience. And I’ll keep you in my thoughts–I hope your family and your career both grow the way you want them to.
As you suggest, it is very possible that in the near term we will be hiring an entry-level person to work under me, so I’m hoping that in the process of developing that job description, I’ll be able to subtly address the need for real policies around things like leave. What I would really like is a guarantee of *some* paid leave (even the six weeks that Lyssa mentioned yesterday), because that just seems . . . reasonable, but I realize that’s ambitious given that I work at an American non-profit. Thank you for acknowledging how backwards this situation is!
First world problem
If you were going to Hawaii with small kids, would you choose a rental that is oceanfront with no pool, or a house that is not on the ocean but has a pool? This seems to be our decision at this point and it’s proving a hard one to make. In the past my kids have loved being in a place at the pool because they can’t swim in the ocean per se. But it also seems crazy to go all the way to Hawaii from the East Coast and not take advantage of the beautiful ocean view. What would you do and why?
Anonymous
Why can’t they swim in the ocean? I wouldn’t be able to go to Hawaii and stay far away from the ocean.
OP
They are 1 and 3, and Poipu beach can get some waves in the summer.
Anonymous
I went to Hawaii when I was three and there are lots of photos of me playing in the ocean.
Anomnibus
Have you checked to see if there are beaches with calmer water you could rent a house on? I’m a fellow east coaster and it didn’t take long in Malibu for me to learn how much more intense Pacific waters can be, but maybe there are some kid friendly beaches with sandbars that quell the waves a little.
NYNY
If you’re staying around Poipu, Baby Beach is a little further east and perfect for little ones. Parrish Kauai rents vacation homes in the area, and I can recommend their service.
Anon in Fla
I lived on Kauai on the west side and Poipu beach is well protected for kids to play. Princeville is heavier surf. Up towards Waimea and Kekaha is calmer. And yes – oceanfront would be my choice 100%.
Anonymous
Bring a little blow-up pool to the beach and fill it with ocean water so they can splash around.
Bonnie
Definitely by the ocean. You can swim in a pool anywhere and dragging all the beach stuff a long distance is a pain.
Frank
Of course ocean. There are some beaches that have gentle waves and others that are more for experiences swimmers. Either way wading in the water and beach time is what your kids will remember about your trip.
Anonymous
Pool. Because otherwise they can’t swim at all.
anon
Pool. Or better yet, see if you can find one with an ocean view but a pool? The beaches don’t have lifeguards and ocean swimming seems very risky with such small children.
Sloan Sabbith
Kiahuna Plantation, on Poipu, is the best of both worlds. It’s on the ocean with a pool across the street and it’s condos. Pool for days the ocean is rough.
OP
We need a 3 bed, and Kiahuna only has 1 and 2 beds.
Sloan Sabbith
There are pull out couches in the living rooms if that would work.
Anon
Your kids can swim at Poipu beach. There’s a shallow area just for the wee ones. I’d much rather give them the ocean and gentle waves and sea turtles than a chlorinated pool you could get at any hotel not in Hawaii!
Anonymous
So, I am of the Bringing Up Bebe-style of parenting that is fairly uncommon in the US, in that our lives do not revolve around our kid and when we take vacations we try to do what we would normally do to the extent possible. But there’s no way I’d go all the way to Hawaii and hang out at a hotel pool that’s no different from the ones in our town at home in flyover country. Kids that little aren’t really swimming anyway, they’re just wading and splashing around and they can do that in the ocean, and if they don’t want to go in the ocean, well – tough. They can deal without a pool on this vacation and you can take them to a local waterpark or something when you get home.
AEK
In March we took our 2.3 YO to Kaui and we had a beachfront house with no pool. It was awesome! He can’t go in the water by himself, but I am an honorary fish and we had some much fun in the waves together. (Husband too). There were also rock pools nearby and he absolutely loved that.
If your kids can’t swim alone in a pool (can they?) then does it really matter if it’s pool or ocean? What do you like better?
Anonymous BigLaw Associate
Pool with an ocean view. You aren’t going to always want to swim in the ocean even if you can. Not having a pool seems really meh.
I see people recommending Kiahuna. Be aware that this has no AC, at least last time I checked. Many resorts and condos on Kauai don’t have AC. But you can find one that does. We typically stay in Princeville on Kauai, so I can’t make any recs for Poipu. The Westin in Princeville has condo-style units, and we’ve stayed there a number of times and were very happy with the units, service, and location.
anon
Read an article on NYMag recently about people who love their friends in person but can’t stand them on social media. Starting to think I could have written the article. Why is everyone so annoying on social media? Between the posturing, the humblebragging, the straight up bragging, the vagueposting, the mom martyrs… and this is from people I like in real life! Why are people so annoying on social, and why are their social personalities so different than IRL? I don’t get it. I don’t post on social, just lurk so I can stay somewhat informed on people’s lives… but it all feels so fake that I’m not sure it’s worth it.
nevergram
Agree. For this reason, I don’t spend much time on FB and don’t do instagram at all. I roll my eyes/cringe at my friends who post highly curated posts designed to make their lives look wonderful- when it is an obviously inaccurate reflection of what’s going on. I totally understand the impulse to do it, but I am under no obligation to sit there and a) ‘like’ your fantasy/lie, b) believe that your life is so perfect, or c) subject myself to your bragging that might make me feel worse about my life.
I think everyone has different ideas about the proper role of social media in their life. Some people are comfortable sharing a lot and think its a good way to keep people updated or boost self-esteem (which, honestly, is a pretty innocuous way to do that). I, personally, would be mortified to post a lengthy love letter to my own baby (???) on FB. I’m a private person- I don’t want my “followers” to know what I’m doing and where I am via the pictures I’ve put up. Some people do. I don’t get high off the number of “likes” my stuff gets. Some people do.
Anon
I actually prefer Instagram to Facebook (I’m in my 40s). It’s a little more lighthearted and fun, whereas FB to me seems more braggy/opinionated/meme-filled/hey-look-at-me. I feel like grandparents are more likely to be on FB also, leading to more posts with 10 million pictures of junior’s school play or little Miss’s dance recital to share with the family. Totally fair to post, I’m just not into seeing it all.
I had my husband change my FB password to something I couldn’t figure out and took a break for a few months. When I came back I hid everyone whose cell number was not in my phone. It broke my FB addiction and cut a lot of negativity out of my everyday life.
Anonymous
My three closest friends barely use social media, and I’ve grown apart from several once-close friends who brag obnoxiously on social and project an image that their lives are perfect. I don’t think it’s a coincidence at all.
Anonymous
I am another very light user of social media. I occasionally share vacation photos or pictures of my dog, but I don’t post frequently and I don’t post gushing tributes to my husband, siblings or parents on their birthdays or Mother’s/Father’s day. I’ve also made the decision to keep my son off social media, so I don’t post photos of him or write anything about what he’s up to.
When my son was about a year old, I found out that a frenemy was going around telling mutual friends that I was not a good mother and speculating that I was maybe suffering from post-partum depression because I was clearly “not enjoying parenthood.” I was enjoying parenthood just fine, I just wasn’t enjoying it in the “right way” (i.e., on social media). I think that anecdote kind of sums up everything that’s wrong with social media and my generation.
Aunt Jamesina
Wow. In my experience, it seems to me like those who post the most frequently are the least satisfied with their lives!
Anonymous
I agree that the ones who brag the most are generally the least happiest. But I do think a lot of the oversharers judge those who don’t share much or don’t share the “right” things. What my frenemy did was extreme and inappropriate (even if I did have PPD, it’s terrible to gossip about it without saying anything directly to me!) but I have heard a lot of other people say things like “oooh she never posts anything nice about her husband, I bet they’re on the rocks.” Orrrrr maybe she just believes her relationship with her husband is private and she doesn’t want to put it out there for public consumption?
Anon
Ugh, I can’t stand the gushing posts! I mentioned this IRL once and was accused of not wanting people to be happy.
Fishie
LOL. I think you are awesome. Those gushing people should be in a private group where they can all gush all over each other and we don’t have to watch.
HSAL
That article was spot-on for me too. The way I handle it is by hiding those people because I want to continue liking them!
Anonymous
I mean nobody is going to paint a full picture of their life on social media, it’s a place to share fun thing and pictures that you like. I enjoy seeing my friends posting about their vacations or delicious things they cook. I don’t need to see them gripe about not getting a raise or that their kid has diarrhea – who wants to dwell on the negative stuff? When I post pictures of my vacations it’s not some highly curated thing designed to make myself look wonderful, I’m just sharing because I know my friends want to see what I did. If you thought I was some horrible person for doing that (or even that by doing that, I was some fake person trying to make you jealous), I’d think you were really insecure about your own life.
Anonymous
I think there is a big difference between sharing an album of vacation pics or posting cute snapshots of your kid and posting multiple times a day about how great your life is, how strong your marriage, is how much you adore your children, you are just #omgsoblessed. I haven’t read the article OP mentioned, but I assume it is referring more to the latter kind of behavior.
Fishie
#soblessed.
Gag.
nevergram
Lol, ok. It’s almost like there’s a middle ground between posting the worst moments of your day and posting crap that is obviously braggy/false. It’s almost like OP didn’t say that everyone posting positive stuff on FB was a horrible person. No need to get so defensive and antagonistic.
Let’s take another example. Got a friend with a 1 year old. She’s a total hot mess. Fighting with the husband, failing entirely at basic self-care and hygiene, depressed, isolated. Spends hours creating these beautiful pictures with her nuzzling her baby and writing over the top pap about motherhood, how she’s never known joy before, how she could never go back to her ‘corporate life’ etc. etc. etc. I wish she’d go back to sharing fun things and pictures that she likes. This is the extreme stuff people are talking about on this thread.
Anonymous
If your Facebook is clearly showing a highlight reel from your life – here’s a fun vacation we took in June! here’s my child’s birthday party in August! here’s a family trip to the zoo in September! – then I agree it makes sense just to share the fun stuff and nobody would expect you to mix in talk about disappointments. But if you are posting daily or close to it about fun, happy things, then I think it’s extremely disingenuous and filtered to never appear even the slightest bit angry, sad or disappointed. Nobody’s life is great 24/7 and acting like it is is smug and makes people feel bad about themselves.
Senior Attorney
Really? I post pretty much daily and I only post fun happy things. I feel like it’s pretty obvious it’s a highlight reel — right now it’s heavy on pics from my garden — and I assume people are smart enough to figure that out.
I get a lot of positive feedback online and in person. But if anybody wants to be angry and resentful I guess they are welcome to do so.
Edna Mazur
I first read this and thought you were posting pics from your “garden” according to the popular euphemism here. My jaw literally dropped. But yes, actually flowers and vegetables, I enjoy seeing those pictures on facebook. The other maybe not so much…
Senior Attorney
HAHAHAHA!! No worries! Actual flowers and actual vegetables and that is all.
So funny because just last night I was telling the Mr. about the hilarious misunderstandings that can arise here on accounta the whole “gardening” thing…
cbackson
Yeah, there is someone that I totally like and think is a great guy in real life who is CONSTANTLY making gushy posts about how blessed he is to wake up every day and look into his wife’s eyes, and when I read them, I feel the weirdest combination of irritation and, like…vicarious embarrassment, maybe? To me, there’s a bit of the lady-doth-protest-too-much about the whole thing and I suspect I’m not the only one who sees it.
Sometimes I wish someone would write gushy FB posts about me, but then I remember that my parents have the best relationship I’ve ever seen and my dad doesn’t even wear a wedding ring. And they celebrated their last anniversary by getting milkshakes from Chik-Fil-A. Maybe Gushy FB Dude and his wife have that too, but…IDK, I’m suspicious.
January
It’s way oversharing. Like, no one needs to know what he and his wife are doing in the morning.
Honeycrisp
Thank you to everyone who responded to my question yesterday about master bathroom renovations! I appreciate the many tips and ideas to keep in mind as we have two contractors coming to give us estimates this weekend.
Senior Attorney
I just added a couple more things I thought of to the original thread…
Live Painting
A friend recently mentioned that she is going to have an artist doing “live painting” at her wedding. Does anyone know what this is? It sounded like an artist was going to paint scenes from the wedding while events were going on, but I didn’t get a chance to ask. Is this what people are doing now?!
anonshmanon
Reminds me of the Gilmore Girls episode where they did the festival of living art!
Wanderlust
This may out me, but we were gifted this at our wedding and it was amazing! The painter sat in one location and painted the scene generally. He then took quick photos of the parents and bride and groom (and wedding party if requested) and painted them into the scene. We love the way ours turned out.
Anomnibus
Googled it for you (and for me, since I’m a curious person), generally speaking it’s performance art where someone paints during a live event, either a picture they’ve planned beforehand or a picture they improvise. Sometimes it adds to the atmosphere, sometimes it’s a whole show for people to watch. It’s definitely a new wedding trend, having someone paint a picture of the reception as it’s happening, and can provide entertainment for the gusts since they can watch the painter in action.
At first I was like “guhh, another expensive thing to pay for,” but on second thought, I think it’s kinda cool, having an actual painting you can hang in your home in addition to framed photographs. In one article I saw, specifically about live painting for weddings, had a really neat painting of the couple’s first dance. As a dancer myself, that’s absolutely something I would want.
Maddie Ross
This. It seems super duper expensive, but I’ve seen it done and it was amazing.
Anonymous
I had a friend in a wedding a few years ago where the bride had this done. From the picture I’ve seen of it, it looked like the artist set up in the back of the church and painted the wedding party at the front during the ceremony.
Anonymous
I know an artist who does this. She begins working on a painting of a scene at the wedding – often it is a picture of the bride and groom dancing – and then finishes the painting in her studio after using pictures as reference. It’s not really a performance – she’s just doing work on site rather than from a photograph. I don’t actually like the style of her paintings but I can see why someone would want this as a special keepsake.
Anonymous
I had a male coworker recently ask me where I buy my clothes, because his wife is plus sized, and he wanted ideas. I’m not plus sized (I wear an 8/10), so I was offended (though after the fact). I am really hourglass shaped, and I try to hide that, but I think it’s making me look bigger than I am.
How do the hourglass ladies here dress so they look slim, but not provocative?
Anonymous
Ouch. I would chalk it up to this guy being insensitive and not knowledgeable about women’s fashion (or perhaps too knowledgeable? maybe he knows that many ‘plus size’ models are a size 8-10?) and not that you’re doing anything wrong with dressing.
Anon for this
THIS re “plus size” models being an 8-10. I was approached about a modeling opportunity once and it was for plus size clothing. I was a 6-8 but hourglass shaped. It was ridiculous! I turned it down. Not because I didn’t want to be labeled “plus size” but because I thought it was a huge insult to actual plus sized women to not use them in the advertisements.
Marshmallow
Yeah this. I’m pretty similar to your size and only very slightly smaller than actual plus size models (mostly because I am not tall, alas!). If he’s looking at Lane Bryant models he’s going to think a size 6/8 is plus size.
My guess is if your coworker wants fashion advice from you, you probably look great and I wouldn’t think to change anything you’re doing because of his comment. But since you asked, I’m an hourglass figure and I have sort of given up on looking “not provocative,” because that means something different to different people. My clothes fit me. Necklines are appropriate. Skirts are fitted at the waist but I try to avoid them being so tight on the rear that they come back in against my body, if that makes sense. I have realized that if I wear shirts or dresses that are poofy or not fitted at the waist, I just look kind of… poofy. I wear things that fit and figure the people around me are professional enough to not freak out over seeing an hourglass shape.
Anon for this
This is the main reason this 32H is considering a breast reduction in her future. Sigh.
To answer your question, I only wear stuff with a defined waist. Some brands like Loft have stretchy dresses with more allowance in the hourglass areas. I also almost always wear my suit jackets buttoned under my boobs but open over them.
Anonymous
+1. I’m a size 12-16 hourglass here (depending how stressed I am) and people always seem shocked by what I weigh/my size (they think I’m smaller than I am). Fitted but not concealing is the way to go. Think slim-fit jeans, not skinny jeans. Defined waist dresses. Mid rise jeans. Hip length tops that aren’t baggy.
Anon
+1. Same. I wear a lot of fit and flare dresses (but only with a light flare) or A-line dresses and stopped wearing sheaths a while ago. Also gave up on pencil skirts because it was too hard to get them to fit properly.
Anon
He was just complimenting your clothes, not insulting you by comparing you to his wife, who he presumably loves and thinks is gorgeous.
Torin
+1
OP please don’t be offended. I don’t think we can expect men to know what size we are by looking at us, and though he did so clumsily I think he was intending to compliment your style.
Anonymous
Maybe wide belts? I don’t know how to do this, but Michelle Obama (prob not your body type but still) does such a good job with this — they define her figure but she never looks provocatively dressed. Ahh, Michelle.
Anonymous
If it makes you feel better, apparently because I am tall, a male coworker told me that I should shop at a store his wife shops at, which turns out to be for women who are plus-sized. I am a size 0. Point being that men are just idiots about women’s sizing (perhaps because women’s sizing makes far less sense than men’s?)
Anonymous
Oh my gosh, I love this. My husband thinks it’s hilarious to tell me that he’s 30 sizes bigger than me (4 vs. 34). Why can’t we have sizes based on measurements?! OK, I know the answer, but it’s so annoying.
Anon
Back in middle school, complaining about not being able to find pants that were long enough, a male classmate suggested that I shop at a “big and tall” store. He was clearly focused on the tall part and couldn’t understand why I was appalled/offended. Starts young people!
ponte python's flying circus
My husband doesn’t even know what size I am. It’s ok, because neither do I, really. 0? 4? Purple?
CPA Lady
If I want to look like my size, I wear a pencil skirt with a tucked in blousy top or a shirt dress with a fuller skirt. I look like a s#x object if I wear something that is well fitting all over. It is what it is.
Anon
So, I’m plus sized. You were insulted that someone thought you were plus sized? Thanks for that.
Anonymous
You’re internalizing this way too much. I don’t think she was saying “plus size is bad” but she was offended that someone implied she was 4-5 sizes bigger than she actually is – isn’t that kind of a normal reaction whether you’re talking about size 0 vs. size 10 or size 10 vs. size 20?
S
And the Big/Tall comment where the person was appalled/offended? Sorry, but I don’t think that’s “internalizing”. And flip what you just said. Do you really think if she were a 10 and confused with a size O she would be “offended”? Really?? Things are tough enough today without someone piling on saying that feeling bad by this is “all in your head.”
Anon for this
Nobody wants to look bigger than they are. If someone guessed your weight as 50 pounds heavier, wouldn’t you start to wonder why you didn’t look your real size?
ELS
Anon, I agree with you. I am cusp-sized, and while I understand what the OP was meaning (I want to make sure I’m dressing my body appropriately, etc), the tone was definitely “I’m offended someone thought I’m bigger than I am, because that’s horrible and worthy of offense.”
And sure — you’re internalizing. And so did I, because of the messaging to women about their size.
(Btw: this goes both ways. I don’t think it’s OK for people to tell thin women to “eat a sandwich” or something equally terrible. I just wish there was less societal pressure on women to make their bodies look a certain way)
Anon
Are you telling us that his wife is plus sized as an aside to explain why you’re offended, or did he actually reference you being plus sized in the conversation? If he didn’t say anything about you being plus sized, he was paying you a style compliment that has nothing to do with your size or his wife’s size.
Anonymous
Tou really can make size 8/10 look “slim”. You can wear stylish, flattering clothes but nothing will magically make you look what you are not.
Anonymous
Tou really can’t make size 8/10 look “slim”. You can wear stylish, flattering clothes but nothing will magically make you look what you are not.
Anonymous
This is such an unnecessary, b* tchy comment. I feel sorry for you, that you feel the need to say such things to other people.
Anonymous
Hey now, I’m a 6′ size 8 and my BMI is in the borderline underweight range. It’s perfectly possible to be a slim or athletic size 8 or 10. It totally depends on height, bone structure, etc.
Anonymous
I’m an 8-10 hourglass and I focus on curve friendly brands like Boss, Max Mara and Lafayette for dresses.
I make sure everything is perfectly tailored. It’s expensive but worth it as everything I own makes me look polished.
Anonymous
I picked up some lysine supplements to stave off a cold sore. In the past I’ve taken a 1000 mg tab basically whenever I remember but on no consistent schedule. It works but probably could work better if I actually paid attention. How much do you usually take?
KateMiddletown
I take like 4000 mg a day when I have them + liquid version that goes directly on your lips. Also abreva. Also, ICE that sucker as soon as you feel it starting to pop up. (My nightmare right now is that I’m going to get one for our wedding coming up.)
Clementine
Late to the party, but skip all of that and get a prescription for Valcyclovir or Acyclovir. They are MAGIC pills. They’re true anti-virals. I literally pop one when I feel that ‘itch’ like I’m going to get a cold sore and it immediately shuts it down.
I wasted too many years of my life going to job interviews with the stress-induced cold sore. For perspective, I generally only take these maybe 4x/year, but it has been truly life-changing.
Anonymous
I have taken it before and you’re right, it is a wonder med. Fortunately, mine aren’t that frequent so finding a doc and getting a prescription isn’t worth the effort at this point.
Anon
I think this has been covered here before, but favorite Trader Joes’s meals/meal hacks? For a busy mom with around 30 minutes in the evening?
We’re doing too much takeout these days and it needs. to. stop.
Maddie Ross
I don’t have any great TJ’s hacks myself. We do a ton of the potstickers at my house and use the frozen microwave rice for everything (as a side, as a base for fried rice). When it’s just my husband and I eating, we do the indian meals, esp. the butter chicken, or the enchiladas. The LagLiv blog (g**gle it) has a bunch of good suggestions. She posts her menus for the week on a regular basis and seems to use TJ’s stuff to the best of its ability along with added fresh ingredients.
Anonymous
Visit the sample station every time you go. About half the time they are combining multiple frozen or prepared items into a new dish, and they often have recipe cards you can take.
Lilac
These aren’t expressly TJs but they can be for any grocery store.
– Instant/frozen rice, can of ‘chili style beans’, avocado, lettuce, salsa, squeeze of lime (and cheese/sour cream for not vegan)
– Instant/frozen rice, can of curry soup, frozen cauliflower, chick peas/lentils
– Boil gnocchi and frozen broccoli together, strain, add lentils and jarred pasta sauce
– Pre made pizza dough or jazz up frozen pizza with extra veggies
– CousCous, chickpeas, cucumbers, tomatoes, lettuce, onions, peppers, greek salad dressing, (optional tzatziki)
Veronica Mars
My favs:
– Panko tilapia (delicious!)
– Tomotillo salsa (in the jar, mix about a tablespoon with some fresh avocado and it resembles restaurant guacamole)
– Frozen brown rice (great side)
– Multigrain waffles (great for easy breakfasts or “breakfast for dinner”)
Camille
Tilapia is poop fish. I wouldn’t eat it. Google it.
anon
1. Pesto Quinoa salad – 1 bag of frozen quinoa (warm up in microwave), add 2 tbsp pesto, 1 tbsp balasamic vinaigrette, and chopped veggies to your taste (you can use the prepared ones to save time). I like black olives on top of mine.Vegan – add chickpeas. Non-vegan – add precooked chicken and a little cheese. Leftovers can be used as a side dish or lunch the next day.
2. Thai veggie burgers – serve with no Bun – I try to add cilantro, peanuts and shredded carrots on top to make it pretty. Serve with premixed salad with soy seasame dressing.
3. Meatless/Turkey Meatballs and frozen fries – serve with Korean BBQ sauce. Quick and unglamorous, but very good. Serve with side salad if you feel guilty about the lack of color on the plate.
4. Edamame Seasame Salad: thaw out a bag of precooked/preshelled edamame from the frozen section. Mix with soy seasame salad dressing. Add shredded carrots and mini sweet peppers. Vegan: add diced tofu (I like the TJs high protein tofu) Non-vegan add precooked chicken. It’s better if it marinates for awhile. Right before serving sprinkle with cilantro and peanuts. Also very good as a side dish with the Thai chili veggie burgers.
Anon
Gnocci with chicken sausage and frozen green beans or asparagus. Dump everything in a pan on the stove and it’s ready in 10 minutes.
Anonymous
I consider these more assembling than cooking. But that’s good, because that’s all I really have time to do right now!
– TJ frozen orange chicken. We actually use the TJ General Tsao sauce, add veggies (usually broccoli) and serve over rice.
-Frozen chana masala (frozen) + baby spinach stirred in to wilt, served over rice with TJ frozen naan.
– Turkey meatballs + sauteed veggies (usually zucchini and mushroom). I serve this to the kids over pasta with red sauce.
Here is a link to some trader joe meal hacks (which I got from here months ago). I haven’t actually tried these, but they do look good!
https://cupofjo.com/2016/09/trader-joes-meal-hacks/
Senior Attorney
I love their frozen Italian meatballs with a jar of any of their pasta sauces over pasta.
Their frozen pizzas are good.
The wonton soup is delish.
Green onion pancakes.
The frozen mac n cheese in the red box is delish and one package would probably feed two kids.
As I mentioned above, I am obsessed with their cabbage/kale/brussels sprouts salad in a bag. I mix it with some chopped cilantro, avocado, Tuscan vinaigrette dressing and a handful of pine nuts. Yum!
anon
Frozen vegetarian lasagna.
I always have one in my fridge.
MT Rex
Cowboy veggie burgers with smoked gouda – top with veggies of your choice (we like arugula and roasted red peppers). Possibly with sweet potato fries (baked) on the side. (Hey, at least they have vitamin A, right?)
JTX
There are Trader Joe’s cookbooks available on Amazon. I have the I <3 Trader Joe's Vegetarian Cookbook, and like it a lot.
AIMS
1. Trader Joe Lentils + Pre-Chopped Veggies + egg on top. I also do a variation of cannellini beans + spinach/kale green + garlic + egg on top, with some parm. Easiest dinner and very filling/satisfying
2. Cauliflower rice – you can do so much with this – make it a side, shape them into patties, throw it into a salad
3. Wild Argentinian Shrimp + pasta and/or canned tomatoes & feta
4. Frozen veggie lasagna – for when you just can’t cook. Use the oven method, sprinkle some extra cheese on top (I try to have one of these in my freezer at all times. It’s a great emergency supper. Takes a bit longer than 30 min. in the oven but is completely hands off)
5. Veggie Gyoza or their other dumplings plus something on the side – salad, sautéed string beans with sesame seeds and garlic, whatever… TJ has great pre cut French string beans in the produce section. Same with their spinach pie (I think the round one is better and you’ll need to broil it for a min. at the end to get a nice crust)
6. The vacuum-sealed baby beets. Great in a salad with goat cheese, walnuts and their spinach mix. Great with a bag of baby carrots roasted for 30 min. in a 400 degree oven (throw the beets in for the last 5) and some lentils or brown rice/quinoa (get frozen) and some pumpkin seeds or feta cheese
7. Tomato or other soup in the carton plus grilled cheese sandwiches (this is a good pantry staple for me)
8. The big container of chopped veggies or “stir fry” veggies + day old Chinese take out rice = great fried rice. We usually do take out on the weekends so this is a go-to Monday dinner.
9. Chicken chili lime burgers ( I make garlic fries on the side by taking Idaho potatoes, cutting into big wedges, sprinkling chopped garlic, salt & pepper and olive oil and roasting in the oven ~ 30 min @ 400 degrees for the first 10 min. and @ 350 thereafter. Prepping the potatoes takes maybe 3 min and you can do it ahead of time and leave them for the day in a Ziploc bag in the fridge)
10. Turkey meat balls + pasta (haven’t tried myself but people seem t0 like them)
AIMS
This was for the Anon looking for TJ meals.
Anonymous
I’m catching up on posts this week so my apologies for not raising it when the issue originally came up. I have a question about a comment from the discussion on stealthing and rape from earlier this week. Someone mentioned that calling stealthing “rape” is degrading to rape victims, presumably meaning victims of a violent rape. Is there any truth to this? I want to be sensitive to survivors when I talk about these issues. You all have such good insights about these things.
My personal thoughts, no idea if this is PC: I don’t understand why we talk about rape so differently from other violent crimes. If a man shoots an unsuspecting woman in the back of the head and she immediately dies, he murdered her. I’ve never heard anyone suggest that calling it murder would be degrading to people/families of people who were murdered horrifically. I’m open to the possibility that there’s some nuance I’m missing, though. Thoughts?
Anon
I agree stealthing is a form of rape. Just like date rape is rape. If someone was the victim of a violent stranger rape, she may not think date rape and stealthing reach the level of her assault, but they’re still assault.
No one wins when we try to measure and compare levels of tragedy.
I honestly think most victims of violent stranger rape have a lot of empathy for victims of rape of all varieties. I don’t think we need to bend over backward to say “that isn’t really rape” in order to protect their feelings.
Anononope
I agree.
I think it would be insensitive for me to say to someone who is the survivor of of violent, stranger r*pe, “oh I know what you’ve been through because I was date r*ped” — because I don’t. Our experiences were different.
But that doesn’t mean that the guy who had s*x with my unconscious body didn’t r*pe me, y’know?
Anon
I’m so sorry that happened to you.
Anon
I know you didn’t comment looking for sympathy, but I’m so very sorry.
Anononope
Thanks, pals. It’s sort of at the front of my mind w/r/t some friends who haven’t cut that dude out of their lives, but I’m pretty ok. Not ok with the world in which this is normal-ish, not ok with his actions of course, but like, *I* am ok, and that’s about all I can ask for.
Anon for this
I too am sorry you have to deal with this. I just want to quickly share my friend’s experience in case it might help you. My friend was sexually assaulted by a guy in our group in college. She thought she had told us. What she really had said was things like “I don’t like him,” “he can be inappropriate sometimes,” “he’s a jerk when he’s drunk” all sorts of general dislikes without saying “he sexually assaulted me.”
Years after college she was talking to her therapist about how her friends were still friends with this guy. Therapist figured out we didn’t really really know even though she thought we did. She then “came out” in literal terms. Everyone in the group dropped the guy that had sexually assaulted her. We did it more in a ghosting fashion than an epic breakup so he wouldn’t retaliate against her but we certainly got rid of him.
No one knew the extent of why she didn’t want to be around him. She had tried to tell us but never really fully did.
Anononope
Ugh, I wish that were my situation. Sadly, I’ve shown the friend I’m thinking of the text exchange where I explicitly called him out on the physical details of what happened, and he said “yes I remember that happening and I’m sorry.” And I know she followed up with him and he was like “yeah that happened.”
But because I basically pretended it didn’t happen for a long time, *then* finally confronted him and told our friends… I guess she thinks she has room to say “it was so long ago” or whatever. sigh.
nasty woman
You’re missing a tremendous amount of nuance. I could write you a novel but I won’t at the moment. This is a huge question with lots of complex answers. You might benefit from doing some reading- everydayfeminism is a good website.
Short answer: most people don’t understand (or are not willing to admit) what rape is. The problem is the false idea that there are real/not-real rape victims. They don’t understand that it hinges on consent- not how much pain the victim was in, not how much they experienced it, not how much physical damage was done, not how their body responded, not whether they knew the rapist, not whether they were drunk, not how stereotypically ‘violent’ the rape was, not whether the victim had a relationship with the rapist, etc. etc. etc.
For that reason alone, characterizing stealthing as rape is not “degrading” to this implied class of ‘real’ rape victims.
Sigh
“You might benefit from doing some reading- everydayfeminism is a good website.”
The high-handed,snarky condescension in your comments really detracts from your messages. I realize being combative is kind of your thing, but it doesn’t always help you get your point across. I just thought you might benefit from my comment.
Anonymous
I don’t find Nasty Woman’s replies to generally be combative. I find them informative and well written.
In this case, I do think Nasty Woman misunderstood OP’s statement on nuance. I understood OP to say murder is murder as analogous to rape is rape and that OP was asking if she (OP) was missing a nuance in not drawing a distinction. I understand Nasty Woman to also say that rape is rape.
Anononope
Yeah, I think OP said, “someone yesterday said that it was problematic to call stealthing ‘rape.’ but murder = murder, so why is it problematic to say that rape via stealthing = rape? what is the nuance i’m missing?”
But NW’s answer appears to read OP as saying “stealthing =/= rape, right? what nuance am i missing?”
nasty woman
I’ll admit that I found OP’s question sort of unclear. And my answer in my attempt to be brief was probably not as clear as it could be.
First of all, we don’t always say that murder is clearly murder. See, Trayvon Martin. There’s negligent homicide, there’s manslaughter.. think about a case where a woman kills her abusive husband. There are lots of times when a direct killing isn’t murder. And society does fight about it.
I think we generally accept that no matter how we characterize a killing, the victim is still dead. There aren’t different levels of dead. Whether a killing is murder depends on the motive, not the injury. With rape, we definitely question how injured the victim is. We (wrongfully) use the level of injury to ‘determine’ if a person has been raped. The assumption is that a victim of stealthing isn’t as “injured” as a victim of a violent rape. Thus, it may be ‘degrading’ to compare them when one is so much worse off. The victim of violence would theoretically be thinking, “calling stealthing ‘rape’ too erases the injury I experienced.” But that’s not the case, because the definition of rape doesn’t actually depend on injury. In murder, there aren’t different levels of dead (and it’s not offensive to acknowledge that both people are dead) but in rape, we “see” different levels of injury. My comment was an attempt to explain why we see different levels of injury and why we tie the definition of ‘rape’ to the level of injury sustained, even though rape is rape. I was also trying to respond to her question why we talk about rape so differently than other crimes.
Anononope
Thanks for the clarification, NW.
nasty woman
Dear Sigh: bite me.
You should assume good intentions in my post to OP. Not to you, though. I said she might benefit from doing some reading because this is a very complex, nuanced subject on which a lot has been written. It’s easy to find good back ground info.
” I realize being combative is kind of your thing…”
No, it isn’t.
“…but it doesn’t always help you get your point across.”
Maybe not to you. Who appointed you the arbitrator of Most Effective Communication Methods?
“I just thought you might benefit from my comment.”
Hahahah nope. Thanks though, for this simpering condescension in your post where you chastise me for being condescending. Hypocrisy for the win!
Anonymous
She is not the only reader who doesn’t find your post well intentioned. You certainly are unkind and unpleasant.
Anonymous
“No one wins when we try to measure and compare levels of tragedy.”
This. All forms of rape are horrible. Physical and emotional wounds will be different for every victim.
Anon
Rape is rape. The OP did not consent to sex without a condom. Her experience does not negate the terrible experiences other rape victims have gone through. Rape takes many forms and the only thing that’s offensive is saying someone’s case wasn’t a “real rape.” That would be like saying it wasn’t a real burglary because the thief only took $20 worth of stuff. Someone else’s perceived “severity” has no bearing on whether the crime actually took place or is serious to the victim.
Anon
I guess I just don’t understand the point of thought exercises like this. Why do you need to be able to compare and quantify these situations? They’re both terrible and they’re both wrong. What more do you need to know?
Anononope
I think part of the point is that it reaffirms that a woman’s bodily integrity matters, and that you don’t get to do things to her absent consent — not even a little.
Sloan Sabbith
I tried on a cold shoulder top for the first time yesterday- figured it might be an okay going-out top.
It. Was. Not.
What I want least when going out: having my armpits highlighted. Fiddling with my bra all night. A shirt that looks like the shoulders fell off.
So, so bad.
Cookbooks
I just don’t understand the point of the cold-shoulder top. I get the old school, 80s style off the shoulder tops, but this is some weird in between. Like the off the shoulder mated with a tank top.
Sloan Sabbith
I still don’t. It’s f-ing weird. Maybe it was just the cut, but the top literally hung at my armpits and made them look bizarre and fat.
Anon
I bought one because I liked the color and fabric and the straps covered my bra (the one I bought is like an off the shoulder top with straps.) unfortunately, the sleeves pop right back up any time I raise my arm. Fail.
I’m still going to wear it, but like a normal shirt with a cardigan, with the sleeves up on my shoulders instead of off.
Anon
I don’t know, I’ve seen some women rock the cold shoulder top and it looked very chic. I’ve also seem some look very frumpy. I don’t think they are appropriate for work. I also think they look odd on young girls.
SA
Two good updates from me:
I was the poster who didn’t put batteries in my scale and gained 12 pounds. I joined Weight Watchers, pretty much quit alcohol and upped my protein and reduced my carbs and in two weeks I’ve lost almost 10 pounds! No one has commented on it but my pants feel good today!
I’m also the poster with the coworker who made the barefoot and pregnant comments. I think he knew I was annoyed that day and hasn’t said another offensive thing since. I did overhear him (far away from my office) asking the younger engineer about when his wife his going back to work. Engineer said “Whenever she wants?” Hee hee.
Senior Attorney
Congratulations on both counts!
Reminds me of one of my favorite weight loss jokes:
“Congratulations on your weight loss! How many sizes have you lost?”
“None, but my clothes don’t hurt any more!”
anon
You’re killing it with the WW! (In my experience, if you see someone every day you won’t notice their weight loss. Wait until you see your out-of-town friend, or travel for the holidays!)
Blonde Lawyer
If your my coworker or friend, I have noticed and you look great but I’ve learned it’s not polite to talk about people’s bodies so I’m not saying anything. You might have lost weight by being sick so I’m just keeping my mouth shut! Keep up the good work though!
SC
Congratulations!
FWIW, I don’t comment on people’s weight loss, ever. I feel like you never know if someone is trying to lose weight or is losing weight due to stress/not eating or a medical issue. Also, although I’m not an expert in this, I’ve been told that any comments about someone’s body, even if positive, can be harmful to someone with a history of body dysmorphic disorder, disordered eating, etc. (I’m not suggesting this is you–just saying that it’s one reason I steer clear of other people’s bodies as a topic of conversation.) If someone volunteers to me that they’ve lost a lot of weight on purpose, of course I say “Congratulations!”
ponte python's flying circus
Agree! All of this, plus it’s just good manners not to comment on someone’s body until they volunteer something. But OP, hooray for feeling better and pants that fit! And on coworker getting put in his place: heh heh heh.
EM84
Complimented my friend´s mom on how great she looks (she obviously lost a few pounds and looked great), turned out, she had terminal cancer and that was the real reason of her weight loss. Since then, I do not comment on anyone´s weight unless they start with it.
Anonymous
Going to Detroit for work in a few weeks. Staying very near the Cobo center (hotel may be attached?). any suggestions for a good place to eat a later dinner on Sunday night?
Sunflower
No ideas for Sunday night late dinner, but check out the Dime Store for breakfast or lunch if you get a chance. It’s only a couple of blocks from your hotel. Really enjoyed that place on a visit to Detroit a few months ago.
Anonforthis
A co-worker’s parent recently died. She took a week off work and came back today. We are close, and socialize outside of work. Should I say something to her? So far we have all been going about our normal lives at work, and I’m not sure if she prefers that or wants me to reach out. I attended the funeral.
Senior Attorney
Yes, by all means say something. If only “I’m glad to have you back! How are you doing today?”
anon
Absolutely.
Don’t leave her hanging, alone, with everyone else avoiding her because they didn’t know what to say.
It is really lovely you went to the funeral.
Invite her out to lunch. Tell her you have been thinking about her, and are there for her. Ask her
“How are you doing…. today?”
Aunt Jamesina
Yes, absolutely! A nice card would also work if you aren’t sure you’ll express your sentiments well in person.
I think the worst reaction those in mourning experience is when people act like it didn’t happen. Tell her you’re sorry and go from there.
cbackson
+1 That the worst thing is when people pretend a loss didn’t happen. I think people often don’t know what to say, but “I’m so sorry and I’m thinking of you” is enough.
My favorite babysitter died in a car accident when I was 7 and I still occasionally drop a note to her mother to share something that’s made me think of her. I don’t ever want them to think she’s been forgotten.
Anon
My mom passed away last year, and I appreciated everyone at work who came by or emailed to say they were sorry for my loss and were thinking of me. Don’t make a big deal, but a comment along those lines would probably be taken well.
pugsnbourbon
+1. My husband had started a new job only about six months before his mother passed away. We were out for two weeks and he was nervous that it’d be held against him somehow. His new manager wrote an incredibly kind, heartfelt letter about how they were so sorry for his loss and glad he was on their team. It did so much for him.
Anon
Yes say something, but get the timing right. As in, don’t say something as you’re walking into a meeting b/c you’ll throw her off. Say something at a time when she can get a bit emotional and get herself back under control (go to the bathroom if needed). Don’t say anything in front of superiors.
Anon
+1. A few coworkers also sent cards/flowers to my house, which was incredibly thoughtful and sweet and when they made me teary it was good that I was at home.
Fishie
How about, “I’m glad to see you back. I hope your first week back goes well. Do you want to have lunch?”
Bonnie
Yes but don’t ask any questions. When I returned back to work I hated being asked how I was doing because I definitely was not doing well. “It’s good to see you. Let me know if you ever need to chat.” is a good way of acknowledging the less but letting them decide how much they want to talk.
anon
Lovely blouse, but that neckline kills me. If you have narrow shoulders, good luck not showing your bra strap all day long.
anon
Good lord, that was an unfortunately-placed comment. I thought I was replying to the main thread. So sorry.
Anon Freedom
I just gave my two weeks notice!!! I am going to do some per diem attorney work while I explore options for alternative careers. I have enough money to float for awhile without steady employment and will probably not have to dip into my savings at all with the per diem work lined up. I left things on great terms with my boss who completely understood. I have agonized about this for so long and I’m so happy to have finally made a decision. I know it’s a bit of a risk but it’s worth it!