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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I love short-sleeved sweaters throughout the year (is there anything better for layering under blazers?), but especially on these almost-autumn days when I need to turn on the heat in the morning and the air conditioning in the afternoon.
This olive green number from Mango looks like it would be perfectly autumnal. I would pair it with similarly-colored pants and top it with a black blazer for a monochromatic look, but it would also look great with khaki, brown, or ivory.
The sweater is $35.99 at Mango and comes in sizes XXS-XXL. It also comes in ivory in sizes XXS-3XL.
Some of our favorite short-sleeved sweater tees for 2024 include Quince ($45!), Ann Taylor, J.Crew,* Boden, and this Amazon bestseller. (* plus sizes too!) If you're hunting for something fancier, check out Kule; Tuckernuck also has one in a cashmere/silk. As of 2024, Nordstrom and Anthropologie both have a huge selection of sweater tees. (All of the ones below come in white and black, as well as other colors!)
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Anonymous
In the pre-pandemic era, my work uniform was a dress with black tights and ankle boots. I’m struggling now with what to wear on my legs: What kind of tights/shoes do you wear with a midi-dress/skirt in the brown family? My feet can’t handle real heels anymore on a regular basis. Nude pantyhose and oxfords? Are brown tights a thing? Help me dress myself. TIA!
Anon
I’d wear brown knee high boots with a flat or low heel. I have worn brown tights in the past and it’s certainly an option with the right shoes, like chunky loafers, but might be tricky to get the browns to match.
Anon
I always think nude pantyhose looks awful. You could pair brown with burgundy or navy tights; you could wear a very subtle pattern on sheer hose; you could go bare-legged. On your feet, you could wear Oxfords, loafers, sleek sneakers.
All of this depends on your office, of course. This is what would fly where I work.
Cat
Slim-fitting knee-high boots
BeenThatGuy
This is what I’m doing this season
Anonymous
With a heel? Flat riding boots? This is where I’m struggling.
Cat
Low heel for me. This is the general look https://www.jcrew.com/p/womens/categories/shoes/boots/stevie-knee-high-boots-in-suede/BT909?color_name=luxe-forest&N=5H%20MEDIUM&sale=true&noPopUp=true&srcCode=Paid_Search%7CShopping_NonBrand%7CGoogle%7CPMG%5EG%5E99107147343_20292484797___c_pla_online__9007284&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_content=shopping_ads&utm_campaign=JCrew_Shopping_PLA_US_All_Shoes_PMax_Womens_Google+_X&utm_term=&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIl–PuaTAiAMV8jMIBR1dtwHAEAQYAyABEgJfJ_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds#no_universal_links#no_universal_links
Anonymous
I’ve had my eyes on these! Are they easy to walk in? The kitten heel makes me a little nervous.
Cat
I find them easy to walk in. Heel is just high enough to avoid the kitten heel instability, but low enough to be all-day wear.
Anon
I pretty much only wear pants now.
AIMS
I would do flat or low heel boots if it was cold (and you can wear tights too but they’re not going to be visible in that situation). While it’s not too cold, all the cool fashionable women I see at work wear either chunky loafers or sneakers with dresses.
Anon
I have some grayish taupe boots that hit about mid calf, and I like them with gray tights. But I’m not wearing as many dresses as I used to (which makes me a little sad – I like dresses!)
anon
I used to wear the same thing! The glory days of ankle boots.
Another vote for just wearing pants. My athletic calves do not lend themselves to knee-high boots and my workplace is old-fashioned enough that sneakers won’t fly. So pants it is! I haven’t even bothered buying dresses or skirts during the midi-craze. I’m hoping that if enough of us just don’t buy them, retailers will move on more quickly.
Anonymous
Can you match tights to the rest of the outfit? Burgundy with a burgundy top, etc.
Anon
Semi sheer black tights by Hue. Loafers, boots, oxfords, whatever you want with a skirt.
NaoNao
I like navy and gray/charcoal tights as well as burgundy and/or upscale novelty tights like those from Wolford with subtle patterns or designs. Black tights can read a touch young or “twee” at times and don’t feel as fresh, and sheer hose feels very dated unless you’re Princess Kate, or in a super conservative industry or something.
For shoes, I think either a knee high simple “classic” boot almost a riding boot or a chunky ankle boot with some interest, maybe even slouchy if you’re in a casual/artsy office.
Anonymous
i’d go for tall boots for sure. if you wear something else like loafers or sneakers i’d keep pumps in my office to change into if i had a last minute meeting.
Anon
Wear pants.
Anon
Thanks to this crew, I’ve learned about the wonders of Aquatalia boots. I’m excited to say I just got my first pair! One pair left in my size at Nordstrom Rack, so they were a more reasonable $230 instead of the usual $500. They are BEAUTIFUL. I worry that I won’t be able to go back to mid-quality boots now that I’ve experienced this kind of craftsmanship!
I had never heard of the brand before hearing some of you rave about it, so thanks!
Anonymous
Sadly, Aquatalia has gone out of business. Get ’em while you can.
Anon
Oh, I didn’t know this! I agree that my Aquatalias are beautiful. Take good care of them and they will last for many years.
Anonymous
Noooo! I didn’t know this!
Anon
Oh no! Beautiful, comfortable, waterproof and durable. So sad!
Anonymous
oh no!! that stinks
Senior Attorney
Oh, no! I got mine on deep discount a few years ago and just love them!
Anon
I am married, have young kids and a big job and am in the midst of receiving a potentially serious, life-threatening diagnosis. I am trying to keep it together as best I can and have a lot of support, but it is rough. I know others on this board have been through similar—suggestions for self-care activities or things that might feel soul-nourishing in times like this? How and when do you determine who to seek a second opinion from? The Google rabbit hole is terrifying, so trying to focus on what’s in front of me instead of catastrophizing.
Anon
I am so sorry. Self-care thoughts: take off your plate what you can (whether that means ordering meals so you don’t have to cook, or delegating tasks at work, etc.). Make sure you get sleep and drink water. For me, finding a TV show to watch when I need to turn my brain off is helpful.
Anon
I’m so sorry. You may get better advice about second opinion stuff if you specify the general category of diagnosis (cancer is different from ALS is different from Parkinson’s, etc.), and how certain the current care team is.
For soul nourishment: assuming your health and care team permit it, this is the time to go walk slowly in nature with a loved one who gets it and just talk. I went through a life-threatening situation right before a close friend was diagnosed with a disorder with a challenging treatment protocol. (Both of these things were very high risk of mortality—probably in the ballpark of what you’re facing). The two of us took up weekly walks in a local beautiful park, and just allowed each other space to say the dark corner of the brain stuff out loud. It helped.
Therapy, swimming, throwing pottery, and anything that gave my hands something to do like folding laundry helped, too. I had vision issues after my situation, so reading and tv were out, but podcasts and audiobooks were helpful. I looked for things that were very cozy—absolutely nothing with serious themes.
The one thing I didn’t do but wish I had was timebox my internet access. I wish I had told myself “you can spend an hour googling this twice a week” or whatever. Because the more online you get about this stuff, the more anxious you get without any corresponding benefit. But I also don’t think “don’t google” at all is realistic or helpful advice, so I just wish I’d set rules for myself and followed them.
Sending you so much love. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.
Anon
You are me 20 years ago. Do you have access to a large academic hospital or one within a distance you can get to? That would be the best for a 2nd opinion and they are likely to have an expert and knowledge of the latest research. Don’t google. If there is an advocacy organization for your condition they will have information, support groups and physician recommendations.
Anon
+1
Op
Thanks so much, all. This is all very helpful and validating. Thankfully I am getting care from a large academic medical center and a doctor who I trust immensely. I still am going to work on second (and potentially third) opinions because this situation is complicated and can be addressed in different ways. I have found a therapist, am working on updating estate documents and am married to a gem of a husband who is taking on a lot of the logistics. I truly appreciate the good vibes, commiseration and suggestions. I don’t know what the future holds, but making this moment less hellish feels like important progress.
Anon
You got this! It turns your world upside down but you come out stonger at the end.
Anon
For peace of mind if it is a cancer think about flying to Houston for a second opinion at MD Anderson.
Anon
I’m so sorry to hear this. In my experience, I always seek out a second opinion for things this serious. I just talked to everyone/looked online (at online support groups for the specific medical problem – like on Facebook) and found who the best doctors for that problem in my city/area, when family members had similar situations. For myself, when I was diagnosed with something very serious and very rare, I found the best person in the country and flew there. I never regretted doing these things.
Anonymous
When this happened to me, I did the following:
1. I took off from work immediately. I called a trusted peer at work and explained what was going on and asked them to cover for me/delegate the work out. They agreed and I then called my boss and a trusted exec and explained that I was sick, they weren’t sure what it was, and I needed at least a week off starting immediately.
2. Re: second opinions, this is probably location dependent. A few options:
– If you have any friends (or friends of friends) who work at a big academic teaching hospital in your area, ask them who to go to for a second opinion. Even if it’s not their specialty, they will be able to ask around and find someone at their hospital AND tell you whoever The Doctor is in your city (or elsewhere).
– You can also ask your own doctor where they would go for a second opinion in your shoes (my dad was diagnosed in NJ and his doctor told him point blank to go to Sloan and possibly also MD Anderson for a second opinion).
– I would look at forums for your potential illness (probably start with Reddit then Facebook) and see what people say.
– If it’s something like cancer, you can go to one of the big cancer centers (Memorial Sloan Kettering, MD Anderson, Dana Farber, etc.) which may involve traveling.
3. If it’s something potentially curable/or that can go into remission, consider whether you want to have more kids and if you need to evaluate fertility preservation options (this most commonly comes up with cancer, but can be an issue with other diagnosis as well).
I am not the person to make recommendations on self care activities as I’m still in therapy 5 years later dealing with what happened. But generally, I tried to do things I normally find relaxing (baths, long walks with our dog, seeing friends).
Anon
Nourish the soul: STAY OFF GOOGLE. I say this as someone who thrives on data; it isn’t data. It’s crap.
Positively nourishing your soul: spend time with your family and your kids. A long hot soak in the tub or a spa day might sound wonderful; if you are looking at disability or death, make memories with your kids.
Amass your war chest. Get an estate plan if you don’t already have one. Do a hard look at numbers to figure out what life is like without your job, or if you have to cut way back.
You get a second opinion as soon as you can find a reputable provider. If you have to travel to another city, do it (eg going to MD Anderson if it’s a cancer diagnosis).
This weekend, I want you to find an employment law attorney (you should have the funds) and figure out how to take FMLA, if even intermittent, so that you can find the providers and care you need. Your job isn’t worth your life.
This, by the way, is the playbook of every person I know who was told that they had less than a year to live AND beat the odds (either living much longer or actually beating it).
Btdt
So sorry you’re going through this. You are probably the type of person who is strong and doesn’t ask for a lot of emotional support, but ask for that now. Talk to your spouse about how you’re feeling and let them help you. ID a good friend, sibling, parent, or two who you can talk to. Don’t carry the emotional burden alone. Good luck.
Anonymous
Lean on people. Find ways to get yourself OK with having good and bad emotions at the same time. Many of us feel we can only have one or the other at any one time (like feeling guilty for being happy when something goes well), but both joy and sadness or grief can coexist and it will make your day-to-day life much better if you can find joy even in difficult moments.
Find a way to grieve whatever losses come, as they happen. Find ways to mark them for yourself. Find a community that can help you with this. Even now, you may be struggling ahead of a diagnosis with the loss of confidence in your body or yourself. Explore these things and don’t run from them.
KP
A lot of wisdom here.
Anon
I’m so sorry you are dealing with this. My husband had such a diagnosis this spring. I’m the one with the big job, but his job is also one that requires his physical presence so exhausting his time off was a big point of concern. We just happened to have a week long family vacation scheduled in the middle of his testing to determine a diagnosis. That week away from reality was absolutely priceless. If you can, I’d try to take at least a few days to go somewhere to escape a little. We obtained a second opinion after the diagnosis and recommendation for treatment from his first set of doctors. In his case, the diagnosis wasn’t so much in question, but the course of treatment was something that was up for debate. We took it day by day and appointment by appointment. Keeping the line of communication open between him and I was key. There were things that he just didn’t have the bandwidth to deal with (following up with docs via phone to schedule things, making appointments, buying things like shirts that wouldn’t irritate his port) that I offered to take over for him. I’d encourage you to keep your partner and friends/family in the loop on what you need them to do for you. Most people aren’t mind readers and you may have to tell them you need help with things.
Nonny
Research now where to get a second opinion from a large academic medical center if possible, and make sure to to do it even if you have confidence in the first doctors manner and treatment, this will broaden your frame of reference for your particular illness and likely spur questions you had not thought of that you can also ask of your first doctor. Studies have shown at least for cancer patients that those who are well informed tend to live longer. If you have anyone you know who works in the medical profession who may have information about your condition, ask them for their thoughts on questions you may have, understanding that they are not your provider and not giving you medical advice. knowledge is power! Also there are reputable organizations for conditions that can give great information on resources, how to work with doctors to your best advantage, answer your questions, and give you more questions that would be helpful to ask of your doctor. Cut yourself slack in every way possible because if you have a long journey ahead of you, you need to be your best self possible so that you do not have more stress than necessary. All the best,
Anon
If you don’t already have one, get a therapist. Getting support from someone outside your family/friends can be so helpful.
Anon
Advice needed, home renovation edition. Last year, we had some water damage due to a leak in our roof. Our insurance repaired the damage, but I feel like the contractor got carried away – instead of just fixing our walls, they announced that our whole kitchen would need to be fixed, as well as the floors in our kitchen/dining/living space (open concept). They told me I have no say in the matter because they were just rebuilding everything exactly like it was. But the flooring they put in is… not good. There is a very noticeable bump in the middle and it’s all kind of wavy? It’s also a softer wood than before (I think it’s maple) and it scuffs really easily. I feel like they destroyed our whole space (which was fine, apart from the water damaged-walls and maybe a small patch of floor) and really cheaped out on rebuilding it. I’m not thrilled with the kitchen cabinets either, but can live with them. I’ve learned my lesson and will be a lot less trusting next time this happens, this was my first time dealing with insurance for something like this. My questions are:
1) Is it worth complaining about the wavy floors? It’s not that noticeable, but I can feel it when standing barefoot in my kitchen and it really bugs me. It’s an old house and they complained that the foundation was uneven, but I think they didn’t really have experience with old homes.
2) Is there anything we can do to make the floors less scuff-prone, short of redoing the whole thing? Some kind of protective varnish?
Anon
I’m curious why insurance would approve a whole reno if just a few walls needed fixing. If some of the floor was damaged, it probably couldn’t be patched which meant they needed to do the whole floor.
I would certainly say something about the uneven floors, if it’s noticeable. It sounds like you already brought it up and they mentioned the uneven subfloor. That could have been addressed before laying the flooring.
I have heard elsewhere that an insured event is not an opportunity to remodel your space, as much as it would make sense. Insurance pays to put things back how they were.
In terms of the softer wood, yes, old hardwoods were harder.
Anon OP
Yes, that’s basically what happened. One kitchen cabinet and a small patch of floor had water damage from the water coming down in a corner, and because it’s open concept, they couldn’t just patch it up, they got approval to redo the whole thing. I didn’t want a renovation, I just wanted them to fix the gaping holes in my wall, but I trusted them when they said my floors were damaged and needed replacing.
Anonymous
Ugh I’m sorry. Old homes really should not be worked on by generalists, they don’t know how to do things properly or use appropriate materials. A proper repair should have used salvaged flooring so it was the correct hardness. I suspect they also patched plaster using drywall which will cause huge issues down the road. Personally I would complain. In the future feign ignorance and ask any potential contractors questions about materials and you should be able to gauge whether they know their stuff or not.
Eliza
+100. Old house need contractors who understand them.
Anon
Usually contractors guarantee their work. The insurance company claim adjuster should work with you on getting the guarantee enforced.
Solidarity
To the ‘rette out there who asked for advice a few weeks ago on how to reduce their creamer intake, I think about you every morning as I overfill my coffee and I hope you’re having better luck than I am :)
Anon
Ha, that was me!
I start with hot coffee the way I like it (lots of half and half) but then if I need another coffee I’ll do an iced latte with whole milk to be “better”
Anon
Ha. I recently started with tirzepatide and told my provider that my one and only non-negotiable was oat creamer in one cup of coffee in the morning. I will change anything at all but this.
Anon
Off topic, but I’m about to start titrating down my tirz dosage after losing 16 lbs in three months (I didn’t have a lot to lose). Will be going on a maintenance dosage but so happy with my results this far!
Anon
That’s great! Congratulations on your success. I’m at the beginning of a long journey, but heartened by just a few weeks’ results.
Anon
Have other single women dealt with pressure from parents to continue to attend family holidays? I’m in my mid-30s and just want to do my own things. But my parents consider that because I am single I am committed to attend Christmas, Easter, and Thanksgiving with them. It involves travel to their state (long flight). I’m somehow surprised that they see it this way and don’t seem to understand that it is not my default choice. I am over it and find the holidays with family draining. But I would like to handle it as delicately as possible. Any suggestions? My sisters live close by and see my parents very often, and they also attend all of the holidays (they are a few years younger). So I will be the only one not participating in these plans.
Cat
I don’t find this unusual or surprising at all, but I also don’t find your desire to skip some of the travel to be unreasonable.
do you not like traveling at the holidays, or not like visiting your family at all?
Anon
Traveling at the holidays can indeed be a lot but this is typically the time I have available due to my job. I would prefer visiting family on fewer occasions for reasons more to do with me.
Anon
Are they paying for you to fly out? If this is on your dime, of course it would be draining and unfair, even beyond the time that it takes to fly there. Invite them to come to you or invite everyone to a third location or do whatever you want to do for the next holiday. You’re an adult and you get to make this choice.
Anonymous
Start with making different plans, even if that plan is “I want to be alone and binge a tv series”.
Then you can say Oh, sorry, I can’t make it this year. Be warm and cheerful, and don’t negotiate.
Anon
Yes – be direct, say no, don’t over-explain or get defensive.
anon
+1 this is really good advice. It doesn’t matter if your parents would rather you be with them, you are an adult and get to decide what you do.
I also like the advice of inviting them somewhere you want to be, if it’s more a question of not wanting to fly to them than not wanting to spend as much time with them.
Anon
Yes, OP, this. You are an adult and can set boundaries. You can do it kindly, gently, lovingly, honestly (or not) and your parents still may not like or understand it. But this is part of being an adult. You are not responsible for their feelings or their reactions, just the way you choose to deliver the message.
Cora
I needed to read this. My mom especially will go off on crazy rants and then I feel obligated / guilt-tripped to do what she says. But I can’t control that and that shouldn’t control me.
Anon
If your job is one that has shift work, overtime coverage, etc, then volunteer for it (or not) and tell your folks you got stuck with the holiday coverage.
That said, I have shift jobs and have moved 2400 miles away and one parent still passive aggressively asks if I’m coming for various holidays. I’m in my late 40s. At this point, it’s just a “no” and move onto the next topic. There’s no getting through to that parent.
Anon
I’d start with what holidays you DO want to attend and then present it as an update, not you asking permission. So a script like ‘Mom and dad I wanted to share my travel schedule for the holidays this year. I’ll be coming home for holiday A, but I won’t be traveling for holidays B/C. I’m looking forward to holiday traditions X/Y/Z and please let me know if I can buy/bring/make anything special!’. I started blaming the inability to travel for the holidays on work/limited days off as those were more acceptable to my family than ‘I don’t want to’. In retrospect the more adult framing would have been ‘I have limited days off, and I need to balance them between family and my own relaxation’. If you can host them, or encourage them to travel to you that might be a good option too!
Above all do NOT get stuck in justifying/negotiating. You are an adult. Your parents don’t have to like or approve of all of your decisions and that is hard on both ends at first but gets easier over time.
Anonymous
Every year we make the long journey to see our parents at Thanksgiving and Christmas, every year it is draining, and every year we say that someday we won’t be able to make the journey anymore and wish that we could.
This is your call, but there are only so many opportunities to spend time with your parents.
Anon
It sounds like she wants to keep spending time with her parents, just not using every bit of her money and limited PTO to fly there for big stressful holidays. That’s okay, and it doesn’t mean she will have regrets.
Anon
+1. People here sometimes…
Anonymous
+1. It’s okay not to be a holiday person. I’m close to my parents and am happy to spend time, effort, and money to see them. I also really dislike most big holidays. To me, holidays are high-pressure and draining and don’t result in the kind of quality time I really value with my family. If my parents felt very strongly I would compromise and do some (thankfully they aren’t huge holiday people either), but I think doing all of them would be an unreasonable ask.
Anon
I’m a big fan of minor holidays or dates of significance to my family.
Anonymous
I think it’s a bit odd you’re surprised your family wants to see you for major family holidays. I think you’re trying to talk yourself into thinking they are odd people with weird demands. Based on this, they aren’t.
And that doesn’t mean you have to go! I skip Christmas with my family sometimes and I really like them. I just tell them when I’ve decided, and why. Like “hey this year I’m missing Christmas so I can go on safari, but I’ll be home for thanksgiving can’t wait to see you.” I think your best bet is to be doing something else and to let them know when you will see them.
Anonymous
It’s kind of a big ask to always expect one person to travel. I’m also wondering if OPs family is weird about family time and guilt her into staying with them VS a hotel.
Anon
Yeah but when one person
Left and everyone else stayed, shouldn’t the person who left do the traveling?
Anon
Yep, that’s how it works.
anon
You make it sound like it’s unusual for children to move away from parents. It’s not. This approach always winds up favoring the parents. What are we supposed to do, live in smalltown USA with limited education/career/dating/social life opportunities forever? Just a bizarre way of viewing things in modern society.
It is a big ask to expect one person to do all the travel, year after year after year. I was in OPs position and got exhausted by being expected to make the rounds to visit family in my home state which would require a 7 hour drive each way and then a few shorter drives in between family members. It requires me to take off work, where as my mother does not work and my father has nearly unlimited PTO.
Anon
Right – it’s a bit crazy to me that retired parents with time on their hands get to skip the travel. Some of us are dealing with super limited PTO (or even none in a lot of cases).
Anon
This is how I took the question. That they guilt her into it and she’s using all their money and time traveling to these big gatherings. Thanksgiving and Christmas are so close together to be making a big journey, especially every year. The trips then just consume everything.
OP— this internet stranger gives you permission to let them know you have plans but are happy to see them (next time you’ll see them).
Anon
I agree – Thanksgiving followed directly by Christmas is the place to start. I’d skip Thanksgiving myself since the prices are usually highest then with less flexibility on dates.
Anon
Agreed. I have family members who always expect people to travel to them but make no effort to travel themselves (and it’s not a mobility thing). It’s too much for one person to always, always bear the costs and the flight logistics and delays – it should be done in a way that makes it easier and more equitable. Many families already do that.
Anon
In the 28 years since I moved out from my parents’ house, the number of times either of them has traveled to visit me is 2 and 0. The roads and airlines run both ways, they are physically capable. With that in mind, I don’t feel bad about missing a holiday or visiting when my work/leave/life schedule allows.
Anon
I usually follow the thought process that the burden to come back and visit is on the person who moved away.
Anon
So guilting them into it with “it’s your fault you have to travel since you moved?” Sounds like a nice atmosphere. This isn’t 1940s Americana with extended families thriving and going to church in the same town forevermore. People move. It’s time to acknowledge that and make it work.
PolyD
Yeah, that’s a pretty crappy attitude. I get that the person who moved travels more often to see family, but 100% of the time?
I live away from my parents and sister, and in the 26 years I’ve lived away, they’ve come to me for Christmas twice. My sister does not have children, my parents did a lot of traveling for fun when they were retired. I will say my parents never expected me to travel, but when the option is travel or spend the holiday by yourself (I live somewhere rather transient and most of my friends are the ones who moved away and so travel to their families at Christmas), it doesn’t feel like much of a choice.
I would have liked the opportunity to host Christmas more than the twice that I did, but now my parents are much older and it is harder for them to travel, so I have to go to them. But I totally get feeling over having to fly every. single.Christmas.
Anon
Your description of 1940s Americana fits both sides of my family. Nearly everyone stays local and involved in the local community. A lot of people still live this way!
Anon
Even if OP lives next door to her parents, she is still not obligated to spend every holiday with them. It is okay for her to have her own life and make her own decisions.
Anon
So OP should be punished because she dared to move away?
Anon
Yeah. In my family there are lots of advanced degrees and big careers and even so, we all live not just in the same metro area but concentrated in a few neighborhoods.
Honestly, I love it.
Anon
She’s not obligated and shouldn’t be punished. But neither is the family obligated to start traveling because one person moved away! I strongly support OP in making other plans.
Anon
Not punished but logistically, why would 4 people (let’s assume 2 parents and 2 sisters) travel to her vs just 1 person flying.
OP probably can’t host 4 people so then there’s the expense of a hotel too.
OP is well within her rights to have moved and to have moved a long flight away, but she can’t expect people to accommodate her.
Her parents wanting to spend Christmas with a daughter they have a good relationship with is very normal. She doesn’t have to appease them by coming back for holidays, but it’s not a weird expectation at all.
IME, people only skip family holidays if they are estranged from family or have a job that requires them to work holidays.
Anonymous
Let’s say it’s a 4:1 then they can do 4 holidays in one city and one in the other, that’s even. I’m not OP but personally do have a big enough house to host (and my guest bedrooms are much nicer).
Anon
The comment that people only skip family holidays if they’re estranged or shift workers is ludicrous. That’s not my experience at all.
OP doesn’t seem to be suggesting that she wants to host a family gathering every year or anything. It just seems eminently reasonable to me that she doesn’t want to use all her time and money to trek across the country 3 times a year every year for a stressful event. She can (and wants to!) spend quality time with her relatives in other ways.
Anon
I get it, but also your parents won’t be around forever and if you have a decent relationship with them, I’d take advantage of being able to do this now. If you marry, you’ll end up having to negotiate holidays and soon enough your parents probably won’t be able to host. Make the memories and form the relationship while you can. I’d focus my energy in making the trip easier. If your job is hybrid, can you travel there at more convenient times. Stay in a hotel instead of the house. Carve out time to spend with friends from home or your siblings and start some new traditions. Be grateful you have family that loves you and wants to see you.
Anon
If this were my post, I’d find these “just be grateful” posts supremely unhelpful. It doesn’t make OP a bad daughter for wanting to do other things sometimes.
Anon
Agreed!! It’s so invalidating.
Anon
I’m not saying it makes her a bad daughter, I’m proving a longer view which she may not have in the moment.
Anon
But we get these messages our entire lives. I’m positive she’s thought of this before unless she’s a raging narcissist, in which case she would have no problem saying no every now and then.
Anon
Right, this isn’t an original thought that never occurred to OP before. I’m positive she’s gotten slammed with that for years.
anon
I highly doubt you’re providing a “longer view,” unless OP is a complete simpleton. I was in OP’s position until I started setting boundaries. My family of origin lives in a nearby state but in separate cities as my parents are divorced and my brother is married. I went to college and grad school out of state and made my career in that state and for probably 8 years or so after grad school was the one to travel back home for these holidays. It seems like the default expectation that carries over from college days when kids come home from long breaks. But it’s exhausting, time consuming, expensive, and to be honest, not always that fun. I can’t say with a straight face that sleeping on the couch in my mom’s apartment then heading to my brother’s for a day and then driving to see my father to hang out with him for a few days, on repeat, is always how I want to spend my holidays. It’s just not. It’s lonely, it can be depressing. It can bring up unpleasant childhood dynamics. But I was the single one so if I didn’t keep mom and dad company while brother spent time with his family/his wife’s, then I was cruel for making them spend the holidays alone. And add to that the guilt of feeling like a bad daughter for feeling reluctant to make the trip!
OP, what worked for me was occasional trips where we met in the middle, or at least tried to do something fun together (everyone travels to see grandma, meet half way in a fun city or lake cabin, etc, or go on an actual vacation together). I also started cutting back on my visits to break the expectation that the default was that I’d always travel. I made other plans. I also pushed for them to come see me more, which has not been very effective.
Anon
Yeah, because she’s definitely never thought of that before. Eye roll.
Cerulean
Funny how we never tell partnered people that they should feel guilty for spending alternating holidays away from their parents because “they’ll be gone one day”…
Anon
Yup. Although I actually do feel some guilt about this as an only child. But my parents have to make do. It’s a predictable consequence of having only one kid (I say as someone who also chose to have only one).
anon
Honest answer – you just need to rip off the band-aid. Once we refused to come back one year, it just got easier. Now we are at an every other year pattern. It’s a know your family thing, but I’d start with booking a really awesome holiday from Christmas and NYE and talk about the “deal” you got by flying on the 24th or 25th. It cushions the blow. Also, it’s good to break the expectation while single because the drama when two sides of the family are fighting for time only increases.
Ses
I have this scenario. I generally leave it up to them which holiday I attend, but it’s only one.
The first couple years it was a discussion, like “life’s gotten busier so I’m not able to travel as much – I can visit for one of the main holidays this year – is thanksgiving or Christmas better for you?”
Now that it’s been this way for a few years, it’s generally not an issue – we start talking early in the year about whether we’ll all be together for thanksgiving or Christmas.
Anonymous
I really do not like traveling at the holidays and enjoy the true solitude one can choose to have on a holiday so I have typically announced a visit between Thanksgiving and Christmas and gone then to “check the box ” And then I organize a video call for everyone on the day. We don’t do Easter, so I don’t have to deal with that. But my stepfather dies this year so I will be with my mother and sister and BIL on Christmas this year, though we may choose a spot that is no one’s home and all that is totally fine with me under the circumstances.
Anon
Can you start alternating years on holidays? This or something like it would almost certainly happen if you were partnered, no reason for you to miss out on it! Maybe Easter every other year and alternate Christmas and Thanksgiving.
Anon
Yup. I don’t understand why alternating would be bad because they’d have to accept that if you were partnered.
Anonymous
I would figure out how many times a year you want to go back, including which holidays, and just tell them. In your shoes I would probably do Thanksgiving and Easter because the trips are nicely spread apart. Alternatively, I would just go for Christmas and then pick one other non-Holiday time to go. I think you just have to rip the bandaid off and not give a lot of reasons (just inform them vs getting into a debate).
Anon
This. Instead of starting with what you can cut, figure out what you want to attend. Is Christmas more fun? Easter? What’s easier and leaves you walking away afterward feeling happy and fulfilled? Prioritize that.
Anon
I would pick one holiday to attend each year and do your own thing for the others. Before I had kids, my husband and I often traveled internationally over Thanksgiving, but then spent Christmas with family. That was a good compromise for us, and one that we will probably start doing again now that our kids are a bit older.
Anon
So, I always say you can have whatever dealbreakers you like, but you have to deal with the smaller dating pool, but this mantra applies to so much more than dating.
So, you can of course decide to skip a holiday but you have to accept that this may upset your family and the fall out might be significant.
You can of course decide to be the one to move away, but you have to accept that you’re going to have to travel back for holidays and visits.
Anon
No, this keeps getting repeated but there is no “rule” that whoever moves away does 100% of the holiday travel for the rest of their lives. That’s ludicrous. Here’s my rule – whoever is retired does 100% of the travel. What else is that flexible schedule for?
Anonymous
+1 the retired person should travel, plus my parents have waaaaaay more money than I do.
Anonymous
This is certainly not a universal situation. Most retired people are not flush with cash.
Anon
Yeah. My retired parents are on a very limited fixed income. And travel is physically difficult for them
anon
And most discussion forums aren’t full of people saying “I have 500k in retirement accounts, 150k in savings, a 60k emergency fund, and 300k in home equity but I’m 36 and I just *feel so behind*!!!”
The proportion of people who moved away for college and never came back is likely far higher here than your average internet forum. I think for many people the decision to “move away” was probably made quite early in life – you go to college, you get a job, you find your footing. It’s not a conscious decision to move away, it’s just growing up and building your own life.
It’s so weird to me. Do most people here have tight families of origin living in a single city and you’re out by yourselves somewhere else? My immediate family and extended family are all scattered. I don’t have many friends whose entire family of origin lives in one city.
Anon
Nope. One of my siblings moved away and the rest of us were in our home state within a few hours drive from us. All of us were not going to pick up and fly across the country to her for every other holiday to make it “fair.” In fact we have done it twice in 20ish years. That’s it.
It’d unrealistic to move away and think everyone, not just your parents, will travel to you. In fact, my remaining parent only did so once because her health and finances allow her to travel a second time.
There are consequences to moving away from family. That was your choice, and it’s fine, but you can’t demand it remains the way it was before.
Anon
Twice in 20 years? Damn. How incredibly entitled.
Anon
Counting grandchildren there are 14 of us, all at different socoieconomic levels 14 air tickets and lodgings for 14 is really expensive and it’s just not going to happen that often.
Anon
Understood, but if the burden is on one person to travel every single year, you’re just punting that cost to them. If someone spends $2000 a year always traveling to family for 18 years, that’s over $50,000, and that’s a conservative estimate. Why are you guys OK with putting that on her with effectively zero reciprocity? Do you help pay for her flights?
Senior Attorney
Honestly I feel like having the whole fam damily fly all the way across the country every ten years is pretty reasonable. (Although I do think a little help with the airfare for the faraway sibling would be a good idea.)
Anon
I mean I stayed because I wanted to stay close to family more than I wanted the benefits of moving (salary, job options).
Being the one who stayed also means that I do a lot more caregiving.
So yeah, my brother who left can fly home for holidays.
Him traveling for every holiday does even scratch the surface if fair
Anon
I’m 12:13 and 12:52. In my case, everyone was fine with moved-away sibling and her family not coming “home” for holidays.
She, however, felt like she was missing out and it was “unfair.”
The times we did collectively spend thousands (? Tens of thousands in the aggregate) so that everyone, and I mean everyone, was with her in her new state for the holiday, she was overwhelmed and stressed out and irritable. So yeah, twice in 20 years was plenty.
anon
So weird. What a loving family. I’d definitely want to invest time and money visiting people who insisted that I should do so, and that they were *not* going to pick up and fly to me, because “there are consequences!!”
Doesn’t sound like anyone’s demanding that it remains the way it was before– how would that even be possible? Did y’all even read the OP.
Anon
I think this is family-dependent, but it’s expected in my family also that retired people do more of the travel.
The family consensus for the heirarchy from most to least amount of travel is
-retired adults
-working adults w/o kids (regardless if married or single)
-parents of school age kids
-parents of kids under 5
Anon
This worldview is so mean!
This is what it implies— Woman gets a great job opportunity out of state for something she couldn’t have gotten in her hometown. She travels home for 3 holidays every year, using almost all her PTO on this and a lot of her pay. She decides one year that she just wants to travel for 1-2 holidays and meet up with parents in another city for another visit. And now the parents are justified in hating her and deciding she’s a bad daughter?? I don’t get this mindset. Aren’t parents supposed to love and support their kids?
Anon
I get what you’re saying broadly. But the second statement is a load of crap. I moved away. My parents retired, are mobile, and have plenty of money. They still expect me to come to them, mostly because of this antiquated kind of crap.
Anon
The first time you bail, can you consider taking an exciting trip for them to live through vicariously? If there’s something you already talk to them about, this may make sense to them and give them a narrative for talking about where you are at the events you don’t attend (talking about you are finally visiting the country whose language you studied way back when, or referencing that that stressful situation or project that’s motivating you to go on a retreat and the holiday is your only block of time off). You know your family best, but my family wants to feel connected to me somehow even if I’m not there, and it helps to give them something to talk about.
Anon
The only way to do it without starting WWIII, in my experience, is to have other plans and to announce them well in advance. I’ve taken really nice trips sans family over holidays before and it didn’t ruffle too many feathers.
The thing not to do, if you want to maintain your relationship with your parents, is to say “I’m never coming to a family holiday again.” Take it one holiday at a time.
AnoNL
I am 40, single, no kids. My parents and I have great relationship and mutual understanding I am an adult and I decide how I am living my life and spending my time.
I love visiting them for Christmas (THE holiday in my home country), my sister joins too, so we have a nice week+ together. Easter holiday depend – sometimes I come, sometimes I don’t and we communicate those plans around Christmas time.
Of course, parents love when we are all together, but fully understand we have our own lives and choose to use our holiday allowance around Easter for our own travel.
I visit them roughly every 3 months (I live in a different country), usually for a week or two (combining it with remote office).
My recommendation would be to tell them you love spending time with them and you also want to spend time on sth else, which means you will visit on occasion X, but not on occasion Y. Invite them to your place or a neutral location if that is what you want.
Anon
For all the posters who apparently believe your kids shouldn’t be able to spend a holiday without coming to you when they’re adults— THIS is the way a loving and respectful family can behave! It doesn’t have to be spending all holidays in parents’ house or estrangement.
This arrangement sounds perfect and like you live among real people who allow others to be real people in return.
Anon
Agreed. Some families described here sound so mature and loving and others sound draconian and entitled.
Anon
This happened to me with my family of origin, even after I got married and moved 1,500 miles away. OF COURSE you’re going to take the only vacation you have this year to get in a plane and visit!
Just have other plans, even if it involves “banking vacation time” and stick to it.
Anon
Well, you’re being a more considerate and devoted daughter already than I was! Honestly, I couldn’t afford to go home except once a year once I started college across the country, so only went home at Christmas, and that’s all I went home for years and years. My older brother did the same before me. My younger brother went to college more local, and consequently, went home more often and stayed in better touch during the year than I did I think. One Christmas, my Mom took us out to lunch and said…. “I’d really like to see you more than once a year….”. And then I realized I was kinda a piece of crap. I was in the middle of my medical residency at the time and my life was insane, but I still should have been better. Although my childhood had been rough, my parents were deep down good people and deserved more.
Sadly I couldn’t do much more, as my Mom died when I was in my 30’s (cancer) and father became sick around the same time. You never know. I do have regrets.
So I was not as good a daughter as you have been, and I would also be annoyed just going home for the same holidays/hangouts every year as you have devotedly been doing. I would just start the holiday taper. Maybe pick the big one, where everyone is always home (Christmas?) and keep going home for that, and choose one this year to skip where you think you can plan your own alternative that you would enjoy (ex. warm spring vacation somewhere, or cook your first Thanksgiving with friends). Just tell them you wont be able to make it this year, but you look forward to seeing them at Xmas….
And I would then try to ask THEM to come see you where you are once this year. Invite them to come for a long weekend. Or maybe one year you host Thanksgiving etc… Eventually you can taper down to maybe one trip home a year, and then one trip where folks come to you. Maybe your family can get into a once every 5 years family trip somewhere new.
We no longer have any family gatherings at any holidays, or really anytime, as the anchor parents are now gone. It is what it is.
annnnon
OP, I can relate.
Pick one holiday you want to attend, and the exact number of days, and be matter of fact about it. Someone up thread had a good script to start from.
Is establishing boundaries generally hard in your family, or for you personally? I’ve really had to carve mine out as the only unmarried adult child (of 4) and the one who has always moved farthest away. Even now, at 45 (!!), my mom will grumble if I “only” stay 3 days at xmas but that’s ok. Her grumbling doesn’t change anything for me – we are close and I feel confident in the strength of our relationship. She’s allowed to have her feelings even when I deem them unreasonable, and her feelings aren’t really about me. Learning to let them go is your job right now.
Anon
How about: “Mom and Dad, I’ve decided that I’m going to [stay home/work/travel with Susie] this year over Thanksgiving. I’ll be at your place for Christmas as usual and can’t wait! I also wanted to invite you [and siblings/aunt/etc] to my place over Memorial Day. I hope you can come!”
Anon
I’ve been married since my mid-20s, but since leaving for college have never celebrated 3 holidays per year with my parents even though I’m emotionally close to them. Even for single people, that’s a lot!! Most people I know see their parents for Christmas OR Thanksgiving, not both. I think cutting back in that way and either staying home or traveling somewhere solo for the other holiday would be completely reasonable.
Caveat that I’m in a family.culture where people are expected to move far away for college/career (my parents actually told me I was not allowed to go to college within a 500 miles radius of my hometown!) and the older generation typically moves once their kids are settled and have grandkids, which is what my parents did. Even now with my parents living 1.5 miles from me I don’t always see them on major holidays because sometimes we need to be with my husband’s family.
Anon
What was your parents’ rationale for forcing you to go far away for college?
Anon
The main motivation was for me to have greater independence from them immediately and I think there was also a second motivation of wanting me to see a different part of the country. I grew up in a college town so a lot of the people went to the local U (which I understand – it was a decent school and very affordable) but they felt like you don’t get the full college experience when you can come home every weekend to do your laundry and have your mom cook for you. I think 500 miles was too draconian but will definitely encourage my kid to not go to our hometown State U, although that’s currently where she really wants to go so we’ll see.
Anon
One of my daughter’s besties was pushed to go far away to college by her parents. I don’t understand the mindset at all, or at least I can’t relate to it. I was like “please don’t leave, I love you!” to my own kids. :)
Anon
My parents loved me and missed me, it wasn’t like they pushed me away because they’re cold and unfeeling. They just wanted to me to cleave and become an independent adult and they thought (not entirely wrongly, imo) that it’s easier to do that if you move a considerable distance from home.
Anonymous
The problem with Thanksgiving and Christmas is they are so annoyingly close together. My parents would love me home for both, but I occasionally opt out of Thanksgiving and they understand. I never miss Christmas, though. My mother would be devastated. (and I do want to see some of my childhood friends and Christmas is the only time we all converge on our hometown). I luckily have a job where i can work remotely, so I tend to go home for a week at Christmas and a week in the summer, but work some while home so I’m not burning PTO for the whole week. I agree with the expression that I saw one time that a visit home is a trip, not a vacation. (My mother stresses me out).
Senior Attorney
My motto, for years, has been “all holiday activities are optional.” When my parents were living I did spend almost all holidays with them because they lived reasonably close by, but now that my daughter is a plane flight away we are just playing it by ear. Last year she flew to us for Thanksgiving and we flew to her for Christmas. This year… don’t know but she is busier with work so I suspect if we want to see her at all we will be going to her. And if we have to skip the holidays and get together some other time, that’s fine, too. (I spent a week up there in July and that was fun.)
Anyway, my advice: Just decide what you are willing to do and deliver the news to your parents well in advance.
Anon
So since this has, as it always does, turned into a children who stayed vs children who left, a PSA:
Children who “stay” typically take on the lion share of adopt caregiving and help. The least the one who “left” can do is travel for holidays.
Anon
Right! Ok traveling home for holidays is time consuming and expensive.
So is running errands, driving to and attending all medical appointments, cleaning / cooking / doing housework, mental and emotional labor and everything else I do for my aging parents.
anon
This is all well and good but it seems to introduce a factor that OP didn’t raise. This is an entirely separate discussion.
Anon
Wow really, that never happens around here!
Anon
The ones who stay also get the benefit of much more free childcare.
Oh wait, it’s almost like every family is different and there are no universal “rules.”
Anon
Sure, families all operate differently (mine can’t provide childcare because they can’t afford to retire). But, how many threads have there been here about elder care with a discussion of how it’s almost never a fair split because local kids usually shoulder the burden.
Anon
hmmm…. this is a good point actually!
Anon
+1
This board tends to favor those who left and look down on those who stayed (and often assuming (sometimes incorrectly!) that the only way to be ambitious with your career is to leave – FWIW, my family has been in Philly for generations – there’s no shortage of good jobs and education here! Not everyone who stayed is staying in an economically depressed area).
But, as the one sibling who stayed, I did so for many reasons but the top reason was wanting to see my parents regularly and ti be able to be there for them. I didn’t think I’d be the only kid who stayed, but I was. Which is fine, but that means I do everything for my parents. Everything.
Then my brothers call and complain about stuff like how I say I’m not figuring out a way to drive me, my husband, my kids, and my parents to go spend thanksgiving with them in Connecticut. My brother said he doesn’t want to deal with thanksgiving traffic. Cool – so why should I have to deal with it instead? Or rather, my husband and I because we’d have to take two cars because 7 people + 2 dogs don’t fit in our cars.
I told him you’re welcome to come to Philly and join us, you’re welcome to (if mom and dad want to) drive down, pick up mom and dad, have them stay with you, and drive them back. But I’m not schlepping everyone to you.
He then told me I’m being selfish and it’s unfair because I see mom and dad all the time and he doesn’t. To which u pointed out: a) he’s welcome to join us to see then b) if thanksgiving doesn’t work, he’s welcome to come any other weekend to see our parents and c) while I do like seeing my parents, 80% of my visits are not social. It’s driving dad to chemo and mom to PT and dropping off meals I prepped or helping them call their social worker and work through stuff.
Also – the rest of our extended family is in Philly. My in laws are all in Philly. It was important to me to live near family so I could easily see them often. I’m not giving up thanksgiving with my in laws or my cousin or my aunt or whomever because my brother left and doesn’t want to commute home.
Anon
I’m on your side. There’s a dynamic like this at work in my family and I honestly think my moved-away sibling has a huge chip on their shoulder about it.
Anon
Some of yall are reading A LOT into the OP.
She didn’t say she was never going home again. She didn’t say she expected 45 people spanning 9 generations to fly to the southern tip of Chile to spend time with her. She didn’t say she wants her siblings to take on all the burden for caring for her parents.
She just said she doesn’t want to have to fly home 3 times a year every year, and how can she stop doing that all the time? This doesn’t make her a bad person.
Anon
Literally no one said she was. And some of the comments are in response to other people making their own statements about what the hometown people should do.
smurf
I have an extended family where most have stayed within the area, a handful have moved reasonable driving distance away, and 1 who’s single & a flight away. What they’ve done – that from my view has worked really well, is commit to the 1x year they’ll travel for a holiday. For them, it’s Christmas. It relieves the constant asking/expectation of ‘when will we see you again? are you attending xyz?’ etc.
KP
This won’t work for everybody, but as much as my mom wants to see me, she also wants something to say when friends ask “How were your holidays?” Just saying I didn’t come home makes her feel like a loser, but describing the parties I went to or the trip I took makes her feel like a winner. Something she can talk about makes a big difference to her.
Anon
+1
An.On.
Saw a recommendation for Vuori leggings on another site and wanted to ask here if they’re worth the higher price tag. My two primary concerns are not-see-through, and doesn’t cut into my belly awkwardly, and aside from that I usually just go pretty cheap, but I’d get these if they’re really worth the difference in price. I would expect to use them primarily for running.
Anon
I got a pair and hate them. Mine start to sag very quickly. Not sure why everyone loves them.
anonshmanon
Mine have a little inside pocket where the elastic started to come out within 4 months. Overall comfortable but not really worth 3-4 times other brands. Mine are also a little short, ending slightly above my ankles, and I am not tall at all.
Anon
I have Vuori joggers and they’re comfortable but IMHO insanely overpriced. Suggest waiting for the biggest sale you can find.
Anon
I like my Vuori leggings. They are noticeably nicer than the ON ones I previously had. They are thicker and not see through at all, and they fit me well and don’t dig in or slide down.
Anon
The most overrated brand IMHO, they’re like old navy PJs and I would save the money. I say this as a fancy person who has no issues spending money on athleisure. Check out Varley for a better alternative brand.
anon
If your purpose in running, I’d pass. There are better options. Vuori really excels for matching sets to sleep on the plane without completely looking like you are wearing pjs or soft clothes for travel, but not my first choice for durability/functionality.
busybee
If your purpose in running, I’d pass. There are better options. Vuori really excels for matching sets to sleep on the plane without completely looking like you are wearing pjs or soft clothes for travel, but not my first choice for durability/functionality.
busybee
No idea why my reply just copied what someone else said? But my comment is supposed to be:
I honestly love mine. I’m 5’2 and they’re the only brand that isn’t too long on my short legs. They are very soft but because they fit me better, they look less sloppy than my Athleta joggers. I’d say quality is on par with Athleta.
Anon
This happened to me a few weeks ago!! It was odd.
Anon
It’s happening a lot.
Anon
I don’t have leggings, only the joggers but they are basically my WFH uniform. Very comfy, hold up well to repeated washings, and super soft. I buy on sale but they get worn so much I’d pay full price at this point.
Anon
Yeah, don’t have leggings but my joggers are soft, look polished enough to wear on a long plane flight or down to the hotel lobby for an early morning coffee which is why I use them for my pajamas on trips to save suitcase room. Despite being WFH pants of choice all of 2020-21, and frequently sleeping in them which IMO would wear them out faster, they’ve worn like iron with no pilling or looking tired or old. However, leggings need to fit and perform differently so YMMV.
Anon
I’m a big fan of Vuori clothing. The bottoms fit so well and don’t squeeze my stomach weirdly like cheaper dupes, even with gaining or losing weight.
Anon
Same. They are so soft and comfortable. I’m not sure I’ll rush out to buy more in every color, but happy with the pair of leggings that I have.
Anonymous
I don’t like the leggings–they seem to create the impression of cellulite whether or not it exists.
Anon
I know there are some doctors on here, so posting here in case they can help with this (IDK who else could IRL). Could someone explain to me like I’m 5, how cancer is able to kill people? I get that some tumors can grow large enough that they impact an organ’s ability to function (so when they are in a digestive organ, that affects your ability to gain nutrition from food, which adversely affects survival). I get that cancer tumors are metabolic, in that they put a burden on the body to feed them. But I still don’t see how a tumor measured in centimeters is lethal and yet women can grow a whole baby and meet that very much increased metabolic burden (and a baby is orders of magnitude larger and sometimes humans have twins and higher order multiples). I get how kidney cancer affects health and yet am friends with two kidney donors, so we can survive on just one kidney and less than a full liver (unfortunately, nothing helps really with a pancreas). I guess I understand a lot of the science and yet my brain can’t connects the dots to why this is lethal (and yet I know that it very much is, perhaps now that statins and fewer people smoking have really put a dent in other-cause death rates). [And I won’t even try to wrap my head around how other cancers are not lethal either because they are too slow growing or are able to be found early enough to be successfully treated.]
Anon
Suggestion: Three parenthetical asides in two sentences is too many.
Perhaps it has to do with the abnormal nature of cancer cells that the body isn’t equipped to accommodate?
Anon
Omg we really do not need to give editorial suggestions on blog comments.
Anon
Suggestion: criticizing someone’s writing on an informal blog is rude and unnecessary.
anon
Cancer isn’t a monolith. Like car accidents, the exact mechanism by which a person dies from a car accident can be quite different case by case.
The female body has structures and processes in place to grow a baby.
Consider: baby= growth with a blueprint. Cancer=no blueprint, unchecked growth
Anon
That last bit makes sense. OTOH, we handle additional metabolic burdens from increased weight easily enough, but then we have wear-and-tear more on joints, etc. Come to think of it, I used to think that all cancer was an immediate death sentence. Then that it was treatable if detected (but that could be grueling and it could come back). Recently, I’ve seem teens struck down by rare cancers but older adults successfully manage cancer treatment and have another good decade left to live and also a person who died of a treatable cancer die before the age of standard screenings for this type of cancer. I would love to really understand it as it now seems to be an annual occurrence for someone in my life and I feel very helpless.
Anonymous
Why are you comparing gaining weight to having cancer.
Anon
I know that cancer is a “metabolic” tumor, but to me, that descriptor does not explain why it is or can be lethal. It’s a label, yes, but I don’t have the background as to why and how this is bad. Or how even though it’s metabolic, not all cancers are lethal (e.g., prostate cancer in many cases but not all cases).
anon
Emperor of All Maladies is a great book about cancer.
Anonymous
Right? That was such a weird comparison. Bodies are designed to allow a baby to grow in a uterus not to have space for tumours. And a baby can also kill you if it grows where it’s not suppose to like ectopic pregnancies.
Anonymous
This is a very very weird post. You’re asking people to prove it to you that cancer, which has been killing people for millennia, is deadly? What is causing you to ruminate on this. Spending 30 seconds googling would get you the basics.
Anon
I don’t think that’s it. Everyone knows it can kill. And yet it’s not always the case (many older men die with prostate cancer and surprising to me, many older women die with breast cancers that are just very slow growing and were undetected and weren’t what killed them).
I will confess to not knowing. I think it’s a tumor disease and yet I am now realizing that I have no idea how blood cancers work and I think that skin cancer is not a tumor-based form of cancer. I have no idea — I was a humanities major.
Anonymous
https://amp.cancer.org/cancer/types.html
Anon
Man, this is disappointing. Not scaled for age or lethality. Suggests that there is a life after treatment for pancreatic cancer. That is really, truly not how that cancer goes.
Anonymous
Some cancers spread more quickly than others. That’s why treatment recommendations vary based on age and health status.
Anon
Wouldn’t matter – some posters will ruminate about ANYTHING.
Anon
Jfc you people just are itching to fight, all the time. OP asked a question about how something works! She didn’t say cancer isn’t real.
Anon
No, she’s not asking whether cancer kills people, she’s asking for an explanation of the mechanism.
anon
I think this is an interesting question.
Anon
Same here. When COVID first started, I had this sudden realization that there was so much about medical issues that I just sort of accepted but had never really thought about how they actually work. It’s baffling and fascinating.
Anon
I asked my spouse this question six months ago!
It turns out that the mechanisms vary. Sometimes the abnormal cells crowd out the normal cells and impair their function. Sometimes they basically starve the normal cells, because they take so many nutrients. Sometimes their size kills (think, brain tumours squishing other parts of the brain).
Anon
Size kills in a confined area makes total sense.
The rest I absolutely do not understand.
What is crazy (to me) is that at the same cancer center where people are ringing the bell, there are also people getting “terminal and you have 12 months and they will be a rough 12 months” messages and they all wait in the same waiting room. I feel that at the fertility doctors, they are much more thoughtful about not having everyone in the same waiting room.
anon
I have no idea what you’re talking about re: fertility doctors. I’ve spent a lot of time at fertility clinics and there is only one waiting room. People cannot bring their children to the waiting room. If they have successfully gotten pregnant through treatment they may be waiting for an OB ultrasound but you wouldn’t be able to tell because everyone sits quietly in the waiting room and is respectful that everyone else is going through a different part of this unpleasant journey.
Anon
My fertility doctor allows children in the waiting room / appointments, but I think most patients choose not to bring their kids if they can at all avoid it out of respect for the other women, like you said. I’ve definitely seen women wheel a stroller in to check in, say “I’m going to be sitting on a bench outside the office, can you call me when it’s my turn?”, and then go sit outside, and I always thought that was a thoughtful way to handle it if childcare isn’t available.
Anon
But otherwise, I agree with you that I have no idea what this poster is talking about, and it seems out of line with standard mental health practices.
PolyD
Here’s a decent overview from the NIH. Basically, cancer compromises the function of vital organs and can cause release of substances that are toxic to the body:
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/advanced-cancer/care-choices/care-fact-sheet#:~:text=Cancer%20cells%20take%20up%20the,from%20treatment%20can%20cause%20death.
Anon
Recommend reading the Emperor of All Maladies, which will answer this and all of your other follow up questions exquisitely.
Anon
That’s way beyond what is really accessible or appreciated by most. Regardless of the hype.
Anon
I loved that book and found that it was helpful generally about the generalities. I kept thinking I’d get further into it for the type of cancer my relative had and it wasn’t mentioned until almost the very end like this: “In 2500 years of human knowledge about cancer, little progress has been made in Type X cancer.” So I am now wading through a med school text book of a guy mentioned in Emperor and so far the additional background is helpful to someone not in med school but with a lot of exposure IRL to cancers of various types.
Anon
Yeah, it’s a great overview for questions like the OP’s. It’s absolutely not a deep dive into any one cancer. I’m very sorry you have reason to do a deeper dive <3.
Anon
It really is not beyond the level of people with a college degree.
Anonymous
Cancer grows in many places where it cannot be surgically removed. My uncle died of lung cancer that spread to his bones before it was caught. You can’t cut out your spine like you can a kidney. Plenty of abdominal cancers spread to multiple organs before they are caught. My dad currently has to have radiation from time to time to keep the lung cancers tumours under control because they can’t be surgically removed because of their position relative to his heart.
Anon
My cat had a cancer of the blood vessels (hemangiosarcoma). I learned that even when humans get it, there’s really not much you can do (can’t excise blood vessels, can’t really stop it from spreading when it’s in the circulatory system from the start).
I hope the treatment keeps helping your dad; I’m glad they can do something.
Anon
Cancers just don’t affect your ability to gain nutrition from food when they grow in a digestive organ. Cancer cells take the nutrients for themselves and often burn through it at a faster rate because they’re growing out of control compared to healthy cells. I have lost household pets to cancer, and it’s hard to describe how fast it can progress when there are no effective treatments. Cachexia is a hell of a thing to witness. Metastasis becomes a terrifying concept.
You are right though that different cancers have different mortality rates. I know there studies on how many people have thyroid tumors on autopsy and debates over when they’re worth excising (we know that sometimes they have to go, but it’s hard to guess which ones you’re likely to die from and which you’re more likely to die with). Then there’s the issue of whether there’s an effective treatment, and how effective.
There’s a lecture on YouTube by Michael Levin “Cell Intelligence in Physiological and Morphological Spaces.” If you have patience to watch it through, it helped me reconceptualize what goes wrong from the perspective of the cells involved.
Anon
I’m a palliative care doctor and have cared for many people with cancer at the end of life. With cancer, there isn’t just one final common pathway. Sometimes it’s the size of a tumor that’s interfering with a vital organ function — we call this “mass effect”. As an example, a large and rapidly growing tumor can do any of the following: compress blood vessels (look up SVC syndrome), erode into blood vessels (look up terminal hemorrhage), compress brain tissue and force the brain out of the base of the skull (look up brainstem herniation), and so on. Tumors also alter many of the body’s signaling pathways, which affects things like blood clotting (people with cancer can have fatal pulmonary embolism), calcium balance (hypercalcemia of malignancy), and bone marrow production (anemia, thrombocytopenia, leukopenia). There’s the immunosuppression that comes with both cancer itself and with many cancer treatments, which makes infections much higher risk. And then there’s ‘cancer cachexia’, which is a poorly understood collection of symptoms that are likely due to cancer cells releasing substances that change how the body maintains itself. With cachexia, there’s a dramatic loss of both fat and muscle, loss of appetite, fatigue, and weakness. Consuming more calories doesn’t reverse this.
I realize that might be too complicated for a 5-year-old to understand, but I hope that helps. Happy to answer more questions if you like.
Anon
This is super helpful. I would have benefited from this.
My mother died from pancreatic cancer, which I still don’t understand after reading The Emperor of All Maladies. She did have cachexia, I guess secondary to the cancer, which I feel like was really poorly understood by our family and now I am all too familiar with. I am learning a lot too late.
Is there a good resource on all this for family members? A lot of care and oversight falls to us and I am still not feeling well- prepared for our family’s next case, where the person is already elderly and frail.
Anon
I’m so sorry that your family has gone and is going through this. For resources, it really depends on each individual situation — what kind of cancer, stage, age and health status of the person with the diagnosis, which treatments they choose, and so on. One of the most important questions to ask the doctor is “can you tell me what to expect over the next few months?” And if needed, it’s completely ok to ask what the end will likely look like. The most common dying pattern that I see with cancer is a gradual fading-away or shutting-down over the last few weeks of life. What you’ll see is fatigue, low energy, minimal appetite (and even discomfort with eating), weakness, gradually staying in bed more and more.
There’s also a phenomenon that’s sort of hard to describe where you can kind of sense that someone’s energy horizon is contracting. I know how woowoo that sounds! Picture the outward ripples when you throw a stone into a pond, but reverse them, so the rings gradually get smaller and smaller.
There are more specific changes that occur during the final hours-to-days of life, but they aren’t specific to cancer. In the same way that giving birth is a physiologic process, dying is also a physiologic process.
Anon
Thank you for what you do.
Anon
Great explanation.
Anon
Not all cancers are tumors. Some cancers destroy or impair certain types of cells from functioning properly – the cells may be misformed, have faulty proteins, or otherwise may not be able to carry out their jobs. For example, you can have cancer of the lymphatic or immune system. You can have blood cancer. This means major systematic processes in your body – responding to viruses, delivering oxygen to your other organs, flushing out fluids and other spent matter from your system – cannot work properly.
Anon
Off-topic, but I find the whole gestation thing amazing — we grow a temporary organ, the placenta, to grow and sustain another person inside of us. And yet those babies can somehow have tiny cells cross back across the placenta, which is why rH negative women need to get rhogam shots for each pregnancy.
Anon
The strangest thing to me is that pregnancy and the placenta are immunologically wildly different in humans than from any other animal. This is one reason pregnancy and childbirth are understudied. There’s no adequate animal model to use!
Anon
I would prefer the marsupial approach.
Anon
I never knew this! Any chance of pointing me to a few resources to better explain the differences?
Anon
Sadly my source was just someone with more of a background in this talking to me. These links overlap with some of the stuff they said!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8347521/
https://elifesciences.org/digests/69584/what-makes-human-pregnancy-unique
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2022/10/human-animal-baby-gestation-birth-timing/671734/
https://www.quantamagazine.org/during-pregnancy-a-fake-infection-protects-the-fetus-20231114/
Anon
Google suggests: “cancer tumors take up space and nutrients”. OTOH, so does the 10 pounds I need to lose, which is likely bigger than a cancer tumor and yet won’t kill me. I am not for a moment doubting that cancer is lethal, but I have to admit than when pressed to explain how that happens, feel that my understanding is really fuzzy.
OTOH, I understand exactly how a heart attack, stroke, or massive blood loss can be lethal, and that’s from basic first aid and stop the bleed training, so not any big science or medical background needed there.
Anon
It probably helps to remember that cancer can cause a heart attack (the off-mission cells can affect electrolyte levels, or a tumor process can physically pressure or invade the heart), stroke, or massive blood loss (the cancer cells may not care about keeping blood where it’s supposed to be, so we can hemorrhage internally). The cancer cells aren’t doing what they’re supposed to do anymore, so vital functions can be disrupted.
Anon
If you are stuck on comparing cancer to weight gain, I’m not sure any amount of explaining will help. It’s simply not the same thing and not remotely comparable.
Anonymous
DH has cancer in his lungs and brain. Your brain has almost no room to accommodate swelling and he was nearing a brain stem hemorrhage that blocks the flow of blood to the brain stem. Lung tumors are causing pleural effusions that we are dealing with but make it hard to breathe.
Anon
I’m so sorry.
Anon
My prayers.
Anon
Am not a health care professional and can only speak to the cancer I had. It was a malignant carcinoma aka malignant neuroendocrine tumor, lodged, unusually, in a lung. It should have been symptomless but was sitting on top of a blood vessel and i to some lymph nodes and I had symptoms. It was giving me a massive histamine dump into my body. Between its location and the histomine dump, within the space of six months I had gone from “why do I have allergy symptoms in February that’s so weird” to “I cannot breathe well enough to get sufficient air”. Due to the histamine dump and its effect, I would not have had all that long before my ability to breathe unassisted was not compatible with life. Without the histamine dump it is my understanding that the tumor would have eventually grown enough to impede the function of my lung and be too large to remove successfully, and that it almost certainly would have metastasized to other locations, particularly pancreas, liver, and or bowels. They destroy tissue in those locations.
Anon
This is an incredible story; I’m sorry you had to live this, but thank you for sharing it.
Anon
You’re welcome. In a way, for cancer, it wasn’t too bad. Surgery for removal of most of one lung and some lymph nodes was an unholy bitch and took a full year for recovery. On the other hand, if they can get the tumor with surgery, that’s it, you’re done. No chemo, no radiation, no nothing. And it has a very high survival rate. Quality of life afterwards is about what it was before, as predicted. I do have some unpredicted breathing issues, but they’re not debilitating just annoying and somewhat limiting. My pulmonologist at diagnosis looked at me and said “If God came to me and said I have to have cancer, I would pick this one”. The biggest downside is its rarity and the uncertainty of the predictions for afterwards. There’s just not a lot of data to go on, unlike say breast cancer, and there doesn’t seem to be a single study that encompasses entry of the cancer into some adjacent lymph nodes, so I don’t know that I have the full predicted life expectancy.
I was one of the commenters the other day on the thread where OP had no bandwidth for friend’s mother’s cancer diagnosis. I was in the yes it’s scary but not all cancers are equally scary camp.
Anonymous
Cells grow out of control infiltrating organs/blood until said organs no longer work.
Anon
Dude, it’s called Google.
I’ve had so many loved ones die from cancer I’m finding the tone of your post pretty insensitive.
Anon
I’m guessing this person is also interacting with cancer in themselves or someone they love. It’s okay for them to ask questions however they want. I’m very sorry for your losses; I don’t think tone policing others’ questions as a protective reaction for one’s own grief is a productive or healthy exercise, but I do understand it.
Anon
You’re being way too sensitive to a perfectly reasonable question.
Anon
It’s more the challenging “I don’t believe cancer kills you since pregnancy doesn’t” kind of tone. Like look it up, dumbass.
Anon
Gently, you may be experiencing some empathy fatigue. I hope whatever is causing it eases up for you.
Anon
I agree. People who haven’t gone through it have the luxury of posting intellectual musings and hypotheticals and it’s annoying. Others can disagree, whatever, but IMO, Google exists; use it.
PolyD
Google will return millions of results, some valid, some AI bullsht. I don’t understand why it’s bad to ask questions anymore. Why even interact with other people on the internet if asking questions is so offensive?
If it bothers you to read about cancer, you can collapse the thread. I don’t enjoy reading about issues with children or renovations, guess what, I collapse the thread.
I don’t understand what is going on with society anymore where it seems that asking questions is bad (why don’t you Google it???); striking up a conversation with someone you don’t know, especially someone of the opposite sex, is creepy and unacceptable; and ditching plans with other people is totally fine because “self-care.”
It feels like a lot of you humans really don’t want to have to interact with other humans! Which, cool, but then don’t complain about how hard it is to find friends or partners.
Anon
People who haven’t gone through it generally aren’t asking these questions.
I am very sorry for whatever you are experiencing, but it is fundamentally unhealthy to expect others not to ask questions because your feelings might get hurt.
Anonymous
Cancer is an overarching umbrella term. Even within types of cancer (say breast) there are many different subtypes and within those subtypes there are different proteins and mutations, etc. This is why there is no “hidden” cancer cure that the government is keeping from us. Because is highly, highly unlikely that any one “cure” could cure all cancers. Or even all of a certain type of cancer.
Anon
It’s also why some of the more promising approaches are very, very individualized (like genetically analyzing your own personal cancer in order to come up with a uniquely targeted treatment).
Anona
Friday shopping help – we’re doing family photos later this fall, and I’d like to get a new dress for them. I’m thinking navy in a sweater fabric, but haven’t found options I love. I’ve linked to the top contenders, but would love suggestions!
Looking to keep the cost below $200 (although I would go higher for the perfect thing, since this is something I would wear often) and knee to midi length, as I’m 6′ tall and short often gets very short.
https://www.moderncitizen.com/products/evie-ribbed-knit-jersey-dress-navy
https://www.anthropologie.com/shop/the-gemini-twofer-sweater-dress-set?color=041&size=S&type=STANDARD&quantity=1
https://www.bodenusa.com/en-us/ellen-ottoman-dress-evening-blue/sty-d1068-dbl?cat=C1_S2_G4
Anon
A sweater fabric will cling in unflattering ways. I’d do anything but that.
Anon
I would be careful with something like the Evie you linked. It looks beautiful but unless your photo lighting and ultimate photo display scale is carefully considered, the asymmetric details that make it stunning are likely to be lost (particularly in a dark color) and you risk looking like it is just hanging crookedly.
Anonymous
I love the anthro dress! Does satin photograph well though?
What about something like this? https://www.anthropologie.com/shop/the-somerset-maxi-dress-corduroy-edition?category=dresses&color=041&type=STANDARD&quantity=1 I did a grey somerset dress for family photos that looked great.
Anona
I wore the Somerset dress in a different pattern for pictures last year! I was looking for something a little more winter-y, since we’ll use the photo for our holiday cards, but I fear the comments about sweater dresses above are correct.
Brontosaurus
None of the dresses you linked seem like traditional sweater dresses to me – I don’t think they’d be clingy.
If you’re going winter-y, then the Anthro dress is the way to go IMO.
Anonymous
I don’t know if these read more winter-y, but I just did a little online window shopping in a boring meeting.
https://www.nordstrom.com/s/mila-mae-pleated-long-sleeve-dress/7540604?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FClothing%2FDresses&fashioncolor=Blue&color=410
https://www.nordstrom.com/s/all-eyes-on-me-midi-dress/8009933?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FClothing%2FDresses&fashioncolor=Blue&color=400
https://www.sezane.com/us/product/harper-dress/navy#size-XS
https://www.sezane.com/us/product/tea-dress/deep-blue#size-2
https://tnuck.com/products/navy-lyles-dress
anon
40th birthday celebration ideas for me? I’m completely stumped and have been feeling a little blah. It’s not like I’m unhappy to be turning 40, I’m happy. I’m content and just don’t really know what to do to mark the event. I don’t want to do a big party or anything like that. Dinner with DH seems so routine. I’m in Houston. Inspire me please.
Anon
A trip! That’s what I’m doing.
Senior Attorney
Second this!! And to make it extra special, invite a few friends along.
Anon
For my 40th I did two nights away – one night all to myself to do whatever I wanted, and one night out to celebrate. Would that be fun? I’m a mom so my day to myself was a bit boring but SO relaxing. I checked into a hotel early after school drop off, on Friday had lunch, browsed some high end department stores, had an afternoon spa treatment, and then ordered room service and watched rom coms in bed in a robe and slept ina huge king sized bed solo. In the morning I slept late and then got ready for my bday dinner. My best friend met me in the hotel and we got ready like we used to when we were single (bottle of wine, catching up, etc.). Husband left the kids with my inlaws and we went to dinner with a small group. Husband and I went back to the hotel after dinner and slept in the next AM before going home.
anon
Is there any skill you’ve been wanting to learn for which you can take classes to mark the occasion?
Cb
I turn 40 at Christmas, and we’re doing two nights in a hotel in the city near my parents (kid free). It’s in a castle so feels fun and different. And then we’ll do our normal cinnamon bun / hot chocolate party ahead of Christmas, and add in a champagne toast. I don’t want a party, I do want people to say happy birthday!
Cat
A trip is always my answer.
Anon
I just turned 50 and have had parties for 30, 40 and 50 and highly recommend it. There’s really nothing better than getting friends together for a great night that you’ll look back on fondly for years. I’d say they don’t have to be big and you can customize to what speaks to you. I’ve had wonderful all-girls fancy brunches, couples dinners, dessert parties at our house, backyard BBQs, etc. It’s work, RSVPs can be frustrating, but in the end it’s always worth it.
S
Use it as a reason to take a weekend (or even a night) away with one or two close friends. I cherish the memories of my 40th birthday weekend with two of my closest friends. We didn’t go far, or do anything elaborate but it was so so special to get to do.
anon
Weekend at Hotel Emma in San Antonio? Spa day at Trellis? Go see Creed this weekend (Sat) at the Woodlands to regress to your younger self? Go on the VIP NASA tour? But, honestly my favorite birthday is to take the day off on a weekday, go to the Galleria or River Oaks District, grab lunch and spend the afternoon wandering the MFAH.
Anon
Climb something tall. What’s your nearest achievable mountain or hill? Travel to a good fit for your skill level if necessary.
Anon
This! We went to Hawaii for 4 nights and did an amazing hike on my 40th birthday. The trip was great of course, but the sense of accomplishment at the top of the peak was really meaningful on my birthday.
Anon
We took a trip for my 40th.
Anon
I’m doing a trip or more accurately kind of a whole year of trips, lol. I saw this article about an actress having a year of trips for her 50th (https://people.com/stephanie-march-feels-lucky-as-she-turns-50-exclusive-8679615) and laughed because that’s basically my attitude.
From Houston, I’d consider a Mexican all-inclusive resort, which my husband and I are planning to do on our actual birthdays (they’re the same week).
Anonymous
My idea for myself was a specific type of trip to a resort that had a mix of pretty spiritual scenery, good healthy food, and fun fitness options. It’s the type of trip I would be been attracted to anyway, but I felt more justified spending the money for the special occasion of my 40th birthday. I found a number of destination options and ended up going to Rancho La Puerta in Mexico, near San Diego. It was a great choice, and I think back fondly on that birthday.
Anon
A trip or a staycation (nice hotel, planned activities).
Anon
For my 40th I had a house party that is still the greatest party I’ve ever thrown. I invited everyone I was friends with at work or outside of work, so it was a motley crew of people who weren’t all in the same group, and it worked out well. We just ordered high end pizza, had a bunch of bubbly (started with a couple of bottles of the good stuff, then moved onto the cheaper stuff), and a couple of friends offered to make desserts. I think I ended up with two cakes and a pie. It was great.
Pretty much everyone who came talked about how fun it was for a long time afterward.
I did say no gifts please even though everyone knew it was for my birthday so I ended up with a few gag gifts and lots of bottles of wine. I didn’t want that “let’s all sit down and open presents” kind of party.
Olivia Rodrigo
We did a riverboat cruise — rented a boat and drove ourselves — with four other couples for my 40th and people are still talking about it! Spent the day on the water and everyone brought snacks and drinks. Ended with dinner at my fave upscale restaurant.
Anon
For those who have been through it – how hard is recovery from surgery to remove some lesions/papillomas in br8sts? My mother is telling me that it should be minor and she’ll have a neighbor drive her home and will be fine by herself, but if she’s going to be in a lot of pain I would be able to be with her and do things like get meds, etc. This isn’t a lumpectomy and she just had a cancer scare but was told she’s fine so far, so I’m not sure I’m needed from an emotional standpoint necessarily, although these lumps will be tested and could be malignant I guess.
Anonymous
I had an excisional biopsy, which sounds like what you’re describing. It wasn’t bad. I took a couple days off work (I think it was a thursday and I went back monday, if I recall correctly). I could have gone back after one day off, mostly to get the anesthesia out of my system. I never took anything but tylenol and did some icing.
Anonymous
I’ll add, they went in through my nipple, so the scar is basically invisible. It was only about 1/2 inch long and there was a small divot where the tissue was removed.
OP
Thank you, this is reassuring to hear. I will probably let her arrange it herself, then.
Anon
Any recs for good semi-opaque tights in plus sizes, ideally in a nice range of colors? I need to improve my legwear game this winter.
NaoNao
Sock Dreams and Snag are two brands I’ve heard really good things about. I’m not sure about Sheertex but I do see they come in up to 3X!
Anon
I don’t know about the range of colors, but my best, longest lasting tights have always been from Spanx. Size E always fit tall, plus sized me, and stayed up, which was often a struggle with other brands.
Anon
Has anyone seen olive color work pants for sale this season?
Anon
I was just looking at some at Gap yesterday. Wide leg.
Anon
Every major retailer is carrying them right now.
NaoNao
I saw the Old Navy Wide Leg Pixie in a nice olive-y color (it’s a warm olive/yellow toned or appears to be from the pics) and the price is *very* approachable)
anonnon
There was a pair highlighted on here earlier this week as part of a suit.
Anonymous
Faherty
Anon
Happy friday ladies.
I’ve been irritated at everything the last 3 days from hormones and feel like I could eat a horse.
Coworker asked me every day this past week and a half if I’d had a report done yet. I reached peak Oh my god if you dont stop asking about this I will scream irritation levels on Wednesday – fwiw its not a particularly time sensitive, material or urgent report, or something I could easily forget to pass along.
I need an adult time out…. with a brief walk, some take out, and an evening of mindless entertainment alone.
All is not hopeless though. I’ve been planning a fall equinox celebration for a friend and I on the 22nd. We’ll be doing tarot spreads for the season, each reading aloud a seasonal blessing (a poem or piece of prose of our choice), crafting autumnal themed shadow boxes, and of course eating too much. Shes bringing an apple pie, I’ll be picking up cider and ordering food for us. I need to get the music playlist in order and pull out my fall decor.
Anon
I’ve been feeling the same way! So no advice, just another hormonally angry person to another.
Anonymous
Happy Mabon! I love this plan!
Anon
I have some kiltie loafers with tassels. The right loafer kiltie curls up and the tassels on that foot are a bit splayed out. The left loafer kiltie is normal and flat and those tassels are like new. What can I do to help flatten the right side or fluff the left side? I just want them to match. They are pretty new. And, yes, when I wear the left one, I also wear the right one so IDK why they are different.
Anon
Is the tassel leather? I had a leather bow on one shoe that did this. I got the miscreant to behave by getting the curly part soaking wet (the leather was more worn saddle-like and not smooth patent), then used a clothespin to clip it in place to fully dry for several days. It still has a hint of flip but it is an acceptable amount now.
Anon
Yes, leather. Will never get kilties or tassels again. Will try this.
Anon
Carb conscious / high protein recipes that are genuinely great? I have GD, and my dietitian keeps suggesting low carb breads or tortillas. I know those work for many women, but I learned long ago that low carb versions of things lead to me overeating / craving the real version. For my body, it’s just better to eat the real thing in smaller doses or abstain entirely. But I can only eat so many bowls of meat-heavy chili (although I welcome particularly great meat-heavy chili recipes!).
I have the Lily Nichols book and have made some recipes from it, but want more options. Fiber-rich foods like salads also seem good for my blood sugar if they have hearty fats and protein included.
Anon
What about a beef stew with lower-carb vegetables? Different from chili but still protein-dense. For salads, my favorite is a Cobb.
Anon
I can understand! I would rather eat lettuce wraps than the low-carb “tortillas” on the market and think cauliflower “rice” is an abomination. I make a lot of recipes from Kaylyn Kitchen’s website. She used to be really into South Beach and now is more Keto but you can filter by low carb. I really like a bunch of her lettuce wraps and tend to make the filling on the weekend, put it in single serving containers and freeze for use during the week. I usually have at least two recipes in the freezer at any given time, which helps me not get bored with my lunches.
https://kalynskitchen.com/special-diets/low-carb/
Anonymous
I’m a big fan of meals I can throw together from stuff at Trader Joes. I like to pick out whatever salad kit or pre-chopped veggies look good, add some pre-cooked chicken, and a sauce. So like a bag of their stir-fry veggies with pre-cooked chicken and red thai curry sauce. Or their southwest chopped salad with some ground turkey cooked with taco seasoning topped with some avocado. Or brussels sprouts and onions cooked in a sheet pan with whatever flavor of chicken sausage I’m in the mood for, topped with some shredded cheese.
I also like their cauliflower rice stir fry with some pre-cooked shrimp, seasoned with soy sauce, sriracha, and sesame oil. Add an egg at the end of cooking.
Anonymous
I am a fan of Lillie Eats and Tells recipes. They’re generally higher protein and lower carb. She has a website and is on Insta, you can see a bunch of recipes for free. She also sells cookbooks, which I have not bought.
This week I made her Skinny Chicken Divan for lunch meal prep, served over cauliflower rice and have been satisfied. I’ve also recommend her Cava bowl knock off.
WisGo
Have you tested how many carbs you can tolerate? I could eat some breads while I had GD, standard sandwich loaf, good sourdough from a bakery, focaccia, white flour tortillas. I would lean into having bread as side, salads in a wrap, or open face sandwiches. My child was made from mostly tuna melts.
Anon
Yeah, I’m actually tolerating a lot of carbs for a GD patient…unless they’re in bread, oatmeal, or pasta form, sadly! Rice, quinoa, potatoes, apples all seem to be fine, but even a half slice of whole grain bread spikes me. It’s a bummer! I miss toast.
Anon
Honestly, I’d try some of the different tortillas. I fill my quesadillas with such delicious stuff that the tortilla just holds it together is seems less important anyway. I get the high pea protein ones or the high fiber lower carb ones. The lower carb ones are fine. They are just a bit thinner!
And as a treat, I will have an open face toasted bread sandwich (one piece of bread only) on the best bread.
It’s true you can get used to things over time.
Anon
I think the key is to find meals that are inherently low carb instead of relying on sadly disappointing low carb substitute items. I tend to use those only to satisfy a craving from time to time.
Tip- if you can source an all natural whole grain rye bread (the kind that gets stale on or before day four if you leave it on the counter) from a local bakery, as bread goes, it’s a decent option. Slice it, keep it in the freezer, and use sparingly, and it will fit in with a low carb regimen. Tip No 2: beware high protein granola. Holy cow. TMI- I am so, so very glad I used this on a weekend morning and not before work. I knew explosive diarrhea was a thing, but until eating this stuff I had no idea that explosive gas was a thing. There would have been no way to disguise the effects in an office setting. Even at home on a Saturday, I was scaring the dogs.
Anonymous
Salads are a great answer here. 3 favorites I use a lot:
My homemade version of Panera Bread’s Green Goddess salad with baked chicken breast, using this following dressing recipe, 4+ ounces cooked chicken breast, a hard boiled egg, pickled red onions, approx 4 cherry tomatos, and greens. (Add avocado if you like it; I don’t). https://www.panerabread.com/en-us/articles/green-goddess-dressing-recipe.html I substitute honey for agave as I don’t have the latter.
A southwest salad with chicken – greens, 4+ oz grilled chicken breast, cherry tomatoes, pickled japaleno, pickled red onion, crumbled feta, and this dressing https://www.isabeleats.com/creamy-chipotle-ranch-dressing/#wprm-recipe-container-29073 Can add some crushed tortilla chips (carbs) and avocado.
https://www.skinnytaste.com/houstons-grilled-chicken-salad/ – but I mix both dressing recipes together. The jicama makes this salad.
Nonsalad ideas:
Soup that is mostly vegetables and meat, such as
https://www.skinnytaste.com/chunky-beef-cabbage-and-tomato-soup-instant-pot/#recipe – double the beef
https://www.skinnytaste.com/broccoli-cheese-and-potato-soup/ – add browned ground turkey
https://www.skinnytaste.com/mini-turkey-meatball-vegetable-soup/
Crustless quiches and egg bakes without bread in them
All of these work well made in advance.
Anonymous
I have a long response in mod; check back later. And here is a PS – if you don’t find spaghetti squash too fake-carby, Skinnytaste has a few spaghetti squash-based recipes I like, especially for a lasagna-like dish and one with taco meat stuffing.
Anonymous
PPS – vegetable soups are a good accompaniment to salad if you want something hot.
Anon
Baked spaghetti squash with jarred marinara is a super low effort, satisfying meal.
Anon
But almost though protein, when most people get their highest protein at dinner.
Anon
My new favorite salad is roasted zucchini, red pepper, and red onion tossed on a bed of arugula and drizzled with balsamic and olive oil. I like to top this with dollops of cottage cheese.
Anon
These are all such wonderful comments — thank you! I was getting into a real rut, and I have a lot of new and exciting options to look at now. Really appreciate each of you.
anon
Has anyone moved homes thinking that you upgraded only to discover you downgraded? I am feeling so much regret over our move during the pandemic. We lived in a very average suburban cookie cutter neighborhood that was rapidly changing, more and more growth nearby and lots of the young professional families like ours moving out. New school, new zoning, tons of traffic. I got spooked by a few Nextdoor posts, and all of the change. We moved to the neighborhood which is very established and supposed to be the best school in the district (best test scores) into a beautiful house, only to find that the environment was completely toxic. A keeping up with the Joneses culture. The school does in fact get the best test scores, but the kids are so unhappy, there is a lot of bullying. I guess I feel like we upgraded on paper only, but I wish we had stayed put in the old neighborhood, managed through the changes, and picked somewhere less nasty.
Anon
Nextdoor is a toxic wasteland, which I guess you’ve realized by now.
I think this is less about the house/neighborhood itself than you having a clarification of what your values are. Maybe take some time to really think about, reflect and even write down what is and isn’t important to you, and use that as a guide for future decision making. Once you have a better feel for who you are and what’s important to you, you’re a lot less likely to make knee-jerk life decisions.
anon
Yes. Our old neighborhood was more working class and there was a vocal FB group that really turned me off- lots of far right xenophobia. We moved to a larger house with a big yard and a great school district but I miss the close-knit feel and better walkability of our old neighborhood. There, tons of kids were always at the playgrounds but here, they’re empty because everyone has a swing set in their yard or more space in their house to play. Our house there was smaller but much more upgraded. Sigh.
Anon
Ehhh, I’d be kinder to yourself, school can get hard no matter where you are. The alchemy of kids can change class to class. You may just need to consider a different school, maybe private and this easily could have happened in your old neighborhood too. On the Jones’ stuff, maybe it’s because I’m a big city dweller, but I honestly don’t care at all what my neighbors think of anything. Get to know the few you like and disregard the rest. If you like your home, that’s all that matters.
roxie
What I just read is you let racism get to you and you FA’d and now FO’d…
Anon
Harsh but true
Anon
Same.
Anon
What do FA’d and FO’d mean?
Anon
f–k around and find out
Anon
Effed around and found out.
Anon
F’d Around and Found Out
anon
How’d you get that from what she said?
Anon
Not that poster but “rapidly changing, more and more growth nearby and lots of the young professional families like ours moving out.” definitely feels like a dog whistle to me and not a particularly quiet one.
Seventh Sister
How old are the kids? Sometimes elementary school can be really tough re: bullying because people don’t take it very seriously and it’s a smaller group of kids so it’s harder to get them to stay away from one another. I was bullied and I was really grateful to my parents for 1) letting me participate in out-of-school activities where I wasn’t just the weirdo everyone had know since K and 2) actually moving for part of my middle and high school years to a school system that happened to be a lot less bullying-focused.
Anon
Move back! Life is short. It may cost you some money but if you were happy in old neighborhood, get back there.
Senior Attorney
+1 I’ve told this story before, but years ago something similar happened to a colleague of mine at my law firm and they sold the newly-purchased house they didn’t like and moved to a house they liked much better. It was expensive but worth it.
Anon
I’d consider moving back, or moving somewhere else. We’re lucky to have a unicorn situation where we’re in a district with excellent test scores but not mega wealth, but most of my close friends from college are very well off and live in rich neighborhoods and from what they me about it, it seems so awful and toxic and just a terrible way for kids to grow up. I wouldn’t want to live there even if I had plenty of money to “keep up.”
anon
What you’re describing would be hard to suss out from a distance. So give yourself some grace here. If you hate where you’re at, is there somewhere else you could go? It doesn’t have to be the old neighborhood, though it could be.
Olivia Rodrigo
We did this about a decade ago. Our house was feeling small (bought when we were DINKs and eventually had two kids there) so we moved to a more suburban lot with a bigger home/yard. YUCK! It was wrong for us in every way: size/style of home, location, neighborhood. We lived there for four years. At year three, we started talking seriously about moving out and we left almost four years to the day. It luckily ended up being a solid financial move. We bought a smaller house (downsized by 1000 square feet!) in a middle-of-the-road neighborhood that we love. Over time, we renovated the smaller home to better serve us/update it from it’s original 1960’s glory and we couldn’t be happier. Life is short and you need to love where you live.
Anon
Two questions, answer either as able:
1. For those of you with chronic health conditions, how much did you worry about passing it on to children?
2. Because of medication for said condition, I can’t carry a pregnancy, but my eggs (aside from unknown chances of passing on the condition) and his sperm are fine. Has anyone used a surrogate to have a baby? How was your experience?
Anon
So this must vary a lot by condition, but it’s really not something I worry about. I know that several unusual conditions run in my family and affect how we feel and how we live, but oddly cancer, heart disease, and diabetes do not, so it feels like a bit of a trade off. It also feels like the best time in history to be born with a health condition as effective treatments keep coming out, so if I’m getting by, things may be better soon? No experience with surrogacy though.
Anon
One thing that helped some people I know think about this is how some health conditions were actually selected for when they gave survival advantages historically (things like sickle cell and malaria, or IBD and the black death). Basically the idea that even illness is part of human diversity and resilience against unpredictable future challenges.
Anon
I’m somewhat worried, but my condition is poorly understood from a genetic perspective and we decided to take our chances. I think our child is likely to inherit a mixed bag – I’m hoping he takes the best from both of us because both my husband and I have some issues (he has super high cholesterol, I have an autoimmune condition, there is some family history of IDD and cancer and early death). It’s impossible to know, though, and we decided to take the chance. We did do pre-conception genetic testing and counseling and a cell-free fetal DNA test; we were poised to do amnio but ultimately decided not to.
I know two people who have used (emphasis on “used”) surrogates and there were serious ethical issues involved. Depending on where you live, it may be illegal. I can’t counsel anyone else about what they should care about or be against, but I caution you to look into the ethical issues very, very carefully.
Anon
Thanks. Surrogacy is actually only illegal in one state – Louisiana. You may be thinking of the scandal several years back using poor women in India as western surrogates, but surrogacy is now illegal in India, so that’s ended.
https://www.creativefamilyconnections.com/us-surrogacy-law-map/
https://surrogate.com/intended-parents/international-surrogacy/surrogacy-in-india/
Anon
OP didn’t say she lived in the US.
Anon
Yeah I took this comment as “surrogacy is illegal in some countries” not “surrogacy is illegal in some US states”
Anon
My chronic health condition (Graves’ disease) didn’t appear until I was newly postpartum. Apparently it’s pretty common for pregnancy to trigger autoimmune diseases that had previously been dormant. We only have one child for a variety of factors, including my health, but I wouldn’t worry about passing the genes on to future children/the child I did already pass them on to. The condition isn’t life-threatening when managed properly.
Anon
I got my genetic disease from my mother (and she from her father) before we knew it ran in the family. Luckily there is a treatment plan that can lead to normal lifespans, but it requires effort and sacrifice, and catching it early.
I definitely worried about it, but talked it through with my partner and we decided it was worth the risk because of the treatments available. We live close to a major university hospital with a leading expert in the disease, so as soon as both kids were old enough we had them tested. Unfortunately they both got it, and I cried and felt guilty for a long time. BUT. We have them on treatments, which should be less intense than mine because we caught it so early, and all prognosis is for a normal lifespan.
I don’t know if any of this helps but know you’re not alone.
Anon
My cousins used a surrogate or egg donor. One wasn’t able to become pregnant using her own eggs, and found a donor, but carried the baby herself. She had 2 children this way. Sadly, she was diagnosed with a more aggressive breast cancer soon after she had her kids. Before she died (too young…) she actually said she was grateful her babies would not be carrying her high risk genes (lots of cancer in her family). Her children are lovely.
I wondered how her years of aggressive hormonal treatments trying to get pregnant may have impacted her early cancer.
My other cousin almost died giving birth to her first child, and had to have an emergency hysterectomy. But they saved her ovaries. So she had her next child using IVF (her eggs) and a surrogate. They had an amazing surrogate who has already had like 4 or 5 healthy babies, was married and lived in the country in a very religious community. So ultra healthy habits. Everything went great.
You know, just typing this makes me think…. my goodness. What women go through just trying to have children. The risks, the pain, the heartache… even in the best of times. How dare anyone try to tell us what we can do with our bodies, when most of us are trying the best we can.
Anonymous
As to your last paragraph, I am watching “Call the Midwife” right now, and so much yes. It’s so crazy how fraught childbirth really is.
Anonymous
I have a friend who used a surrogate to have a baby after years and years of struggling with infertility/trying IVF and all the things–they’re very open about their experience and I know are so incredibly grateful they were finally able to have a baby. They also get along really well with their surrogate’s family and basically consider them a second family at this point (and I think are actually trying for another baby using the same surrogate)
Anon
I had a friend whose cousin was her surrogate. It seemed like it worked well for them, but there may be obvious challenges with that approach.
Anon
My daughter, who is a nurse, recently asked me to look into genetic testing in regard to a chronic condition I have. I was dx’d when she was a toddler and at the time it was determined that I didn’t have the one gene they knew about, but with the advances in genetics, it’s very possible that I have a genetic type and not an idiopathic type of this disease. Getting genetic testing done is long, hard, expensive, and extremely time consuming. I am looking into it, but I’m really not sure what will come out of it.
smurf
I have a chronic illness that often has a genetic link but in my case, first/only one we know of in the family to have it. If I have kids, I hope that they don’t get it but I’m well equipped to help them manage it if they do.
If it’s something with a high probability & a death sentence like Huntington’s – I think you are a selfish monster for knowingly passing that on.
You might check out the youtuber LeighAnnSays (yes, an influencer, but she & her husband had 1 daughter through IVF & have now had another through surrogacy.) I still question how/if it can truly be done ethically but I think there are no easy answers, like how adoption was previously seen as “here’s how to have kids if you can’t yourself” and that has rapidly shifted.
anon for this
I’m supposed to go to my 25th high school reunion next weekend and all of a sudden it’s giving me a good bit of anxiety. I’m excited to see certain people I haven’t seen in 20+ years, but I was scrolling the invite list and realized that some people who made me miserable as a teenager will also be there – I had forgotten they existed.
I’m quite happy with my life, and don’t intend to bring up harmful memories or doing any settling of scores or the like. But I would love to hear suggestions for scripts or how to handle people who make catty comments or are unpleasant. I’m not great at witty comebacks and this is generally a “hope for the best but prepare for the worst” situation.
Also if you went to a big reunion and it was better than expected, share that story!
Anon
I’ve been to tons and people grow up. I’ve never once needed a witty comeback and age is a great leveler.
Anon
Yeah, I’ve encountered lots of people from my school days who were bullies then. They have all been perfectly fine, and some are lovely now. I just try to remember for myself that oftentimes kids who are mean are going through things I didn’t know about, and kids don’t always handle that in the most productive way. Not excusing! I just helpful framing for myself.
If you don’t typically go with a witty comeback, maybe it would feel more authentic to come up with another way to handle rude comments (though I doubt you’ll get any). I like “Why do you say that?” Or “I don’t know what you mean!” If the person is talking about someone else, sometimes I say “That hasn’t been my experience with her!”
Also, remember you don’t have to interact with anyone who makes you uncomfortable! Don’t force yourself to talk to them if you just don’t want to.
Just some thoughts! Sometimes people are just miserable their whole lives, and if that’s the case, you can sus that out quickly and excuse yourself to fetch a new drink. Otherwise, I bet your bullies will have grown up over the years and have turned into normal people.
You’re doing to do great, and have fun!
Anon
This. I’ve never experienced cattiness at a reunion.
Anon
+1
Anon
Every reunion I’ve been to has been large enough and short enough that I could avoid people I didn’t want to see and fill my time with the people I did want to see, if that’s helpful.
Anon
And I agree with the other commenter that people grow up and act adult at these things. But I still don’t want to talk to the jerk who cheated on my best friend sophomore year! And I’ve never had to.
Anon
Raised eyebrows.
“Wow”
Walk away.
Hopefully people will either have outgrown catty and rude behavior, or will be on their best behavior at the reunion.
Anon
I’ve never been to one (I live thousands of miles away) but my friends who went to both our 10 and 20 year reunions said 20 was much better, and they were really blown away by how little high school social status mattered at the 20th. They described some of the most popular kids and some of the nerdiest kids hitting it off and spending the whole weekend hanging out. At age 28, most people are nicer than they were in high school but there’s still an element of wanting to impress people, proving you’ve got the right job, partner, etc. and are headed down the “right” path. What my friends said is that by age 38 all pretense of that had gone out the window and people were just happy to be around and healthy (it’s not unusual for a high school class to have one person die before 40) and catching up. I’m sure it will be great!
Nora
This makes sense. I’m 30 but a reunion now would still have some level of showing off and seeing how people are doing – I can imagine that in 10 years it won’t matter at all
Anon
At my ten year reunion the former mean girls were shockingly friendly. I talked with so many people I had nothing in common with during high school. No one is going to walk up to you and insult you. You’re no longer trapped in a building together 40 hours a week- Most adults are capable of being polite for a single conversation.
Anon
+1 Nobody is looking at the invite list thinking “I can’t wait to make fun of OP again”
Anon
I don’t go to reunions and my life is fine without them! I don’t think I would remember a single person from high school.
Anon
Recommendations for movers in Warren County NJ (northwestern rural area about an hour from NYC) for a move to the SEUS? Would need a pack-and-move service for elderly parents downsizing.
Anon
For people who are very giving in both their profession and their personal life, how do you avoid burnout?
I’m not a people pleaser, but I do strive to be everything to everyone at times. I’m single, which I think exacerbates it a bit (can’t use my SO as an “out” but I also recognize that being single I know I lean on friends and family more than a partnered person so I’m cognizant of being there for them to reciprocate). I would also say that I probably have decently high expectations of people in my personal life and so I need to be there for them.
I also work in a demanding helping profession. I would never in a million years change the work I do. I love it, it helps people who really need it, it’s fulfilling, and unlike most human services jobs I am actually well compensated. But the job can be all encompassing mentally and emotionally, it has a lot of travel, it can be physically taxing, and can be really long hours.
I just feel like I’m always shortchanging one group. At least it’s pretty equal if I’m shortchanging work or loved ones, but I do have lots of guilt about either.
anon
The phrase that clicked with me is that I can’t keep saying Yes to others, I need to say Yes to my sanity.
Been There
I think women are socialized to be like this — always give, give, give and put other’s needs above your own. I’m also in a helping profession with a lot of burnout which was made worse during and after the pandemic. What has helped me as to view my primary role as taking care of myself. I can’t do my job effectively if I don’t take care of myself. I can’t be there for my family if I don’t take care of myself. Sometimes I need to disappoint people to take care of myself. Resting is taking care of myself. You can’t pour from an empty cup. I pick and chose what I do and I make sure it aligns with my energy level and values. I’ve also learned to focus on the most important opinion of me is me and to worry less about what others think. It takes time and practice though. If you like podcasts, listen to UnF*ck Your Brian: Feminist Self-Help for Everyone episode 359 – Over-Responsibility: The Spin. It’s short.
Anon
To see just how much women are socialized to always give and give and give, read no further than the holiday travel thread above…
Anon
Amen!
Anon
Gawd seriously!! It’s crazy up there.
Anon
You have to learn how to say no. If it helps, you can remind yourself that you won’t be able to show up for anybody if you’re burnt out.
Anon
OP here, I don’t really feel burnt out. And I don’t think I’ve really been socialized to give, give, give – people in my line of work describe it as a calling and I agree with that – it’s innate.
One thing that’s tough is that my loved ones support but don’t really understand my career. My colleagues are wonderful people but generally are more focused on career than a personal life. So I don’t feel like I have a great roadmap on to be an involved and invested friend / daughter / sister while also having a consuming career.
Anon
You don’t feel burnt out yet. Don’t let yourself get to that point, it’s very hard to come back from.
Anon
OP here, I have been burnt out. It took a while to come back. I’ve learned ways to mitigate this.
Been there
It’s those careers that are perceived of as callings that are most at risk for burning people out. Also, you may not realize you have been socialized to give and give. It’s subtle. It works by getting in your head so much that you think it’s your choice.
Anon
Why can’t you just take me at my word when I’m telling you about my life. Telling me, a stranger, your thoughts on my life is not helpful.
Anon
Figure out what’s optional, and I promise some of it really is, and forgive yourself for opting of that stuff. The “put your own airbag on first before helping others” analogy is true.
Anonymous
Can somebody in the commercial real estate space explain to me why the market for office buildings isn’t in utter collapse and putting a drag on the rest of the economy? The scale of that market, and the degree of distress post Covid, when we have not all returned to work, so perplexing to me. Some of it seems to be that renewals are still a little ways away, but I would think that that would be priced into the economy and it doesn’t seem like it is.
Anon
In my city, people are moving into the Class A space of their dreams for bargain rates, so those buildings are at least occupied, which keeps ground floor retail from being completely closed for good. So maybe Class B is where the hidden suffering is, not the glittering downtown core? I’m in the SEUS, which is growing a lot for residents and businesses. I don’t know how things look elsewhere (SF, Chicago, Boston, NYC). My guess is that medium-sized cities are OK but HCOL cities where there are long commutes and resistance to RTO are suffering and that that will continue.
Anon
CRE office is at a record high vacancy rate and likely will remain high or peak for at least 2-3 years as pre-pandemic leases continue to cycle out and aren’t renewed. Moodys had a great easy to understand article on this from three days ago called a new working order.
Anon
I have a friend who is a high mucky muck in commercial real estate and thing are not going well.
I do know that one of their selling points to senior management of tenants or potential tenants is that “remote workers aren’t really working” to convince Mr Old School CEO that he needs a huge office space to require everyone to commute to. It’s not anything based on evidence.
I expect more city centers to move toward living space than office space, as they have been.
Anon
I think we just haven’t seen the full impact yet.
Anon
CRE is my world (Manhattan based). Our stock tripled this year (granted it was at an all time low). Our Class A buildings are 90% + leased. Our tenants are mostly other billion dollar companies, huge law firms and hedge funds. These folks are back in the office, if not full time, many days a week. Our properties have any amenity you could want (restaurants, green space, gyms, doctors, co-working space, huge gathering spaces, tenant events, etc). The part of our business that is suffering the most is ground up development. That’s basically stalled because of the loan situations. I can’t really be more specific without outing myself but big corporations still want fancy offices; even if just for show or the prestigious address.
smurf
def not an expert on this but I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a bigger shift in a few years if companies non-renew leases. I think there are very few companies that have 1) gone to and stayed fully remote 2) aren’t maintaining any office space. I think there are a lot of offices with more open desks & cubes but not deserted buildings/floors.
I think hybrid is the new norm & no one wants to consistently come into an office without an assigned space (hot desking).
Colette
Google “extend and pretend”
Basically the low valuation right now only matters if you need to sell.
Banks are willing to work with building owners to renegotiate loans to avoid default, etc.
Anon
I just don’t think there is a straightforward answer here. I live in a growing SEUS city. I have noticed an increase in the number of companies that are maintaining or wanting a Class A office space in the downtown core. However, the spaces they are leasing are smaller than pre-Covid. I.e., they are either accounting for employees being remote or are renting space with conference rooms + floater offices, mostly for client meetings.
In contrast, I work for a company that used to rent two buildings in an office park in a suburban area. We’ve downsized to one building, which is primarily used as meeting space, and we have many vacant buildings in our office park.
Anon
Corporations sign long leases, which is making the bubble pop more slowly than a rental housing bubble would. But I think this is a very reasonable thing to be worried about as a long term market force.
Nora
I’m not as anti AskAManager as some folks here, but the comment section about whether or not you can ask during an interview if the company usually has cameras on is priceless.
C’mon I don’t like having my camera on all the time either, and sometimes I do just do camera off days, but in general turning your cameras on for work meetings isn’t that big a deal.
Anon
I think that for some people, WFH is more like being on call than working and being caught living that life is why it chafes? TBH, if I wanted to call, I’d just have a call vs anything with cameras even involved. I don’t need to know if Debby is in a bathrobe, I just need Debby actively participating in the discussion.
Anon
+1 especially for the folks at AAM.
Nora
I guess it also depends on your “standards” for a work video call? For most of my calls I can blur the background and as long as I’m wearing something that looks appropriate from collar bones up its completely fine. It’s not like when people had to do interviews on major news networks from home and worry about outfit, background, lighting, etc
Anon
I think there’s a valid point about not using video for initial screenings because of discrimination risk, but since it’s AAM, that won’t be the real reason.
Anonymous
Wild. Our office is cameras on. Work from home is work. Sure occasionally being off is fine but the culture is on. If someone hated that so much they asked about it in an interview they wouldn’t get an offer.
Anon
I wish that were the case here, because I sense that many co-workers used WFH to do other things (and not like for an hour at lunch, but to be taking a trip and are boarding a plane, etc.). I get it now and then, and we are “unlimited vacation,” so I’d prefer for people to just say they are on vacation than me try to chase you around to get a meeting time when it’s never going to work. Don’t make me play 20 questiosn with you about your schedule.
Anon
This is me. I’ve never turned my cameras on because I wanted to set the expectation of people never seeing me so I had more freedom to be somewhere else, and I have indeed taken calls (where I didn’t have to talk) from airplanes and airport lounges.
Anon
I mean, if you are available to work on a work day, it’s great that you are just getting things done. I think my problem is with people who are just irritated at having to commit to a work call on . . . a work day.
Anon
I am a consultant/contractor with mainly two different companies with very different zoom cultures. For one, I know it’s cameras on and I have to look presentable.
The other is always cameras off, and also has very early meetings my time due to a time zone difference. So I can roll out of bed and join that one in my pajamas. Unfortunately, at one recent meeting, one of the participants decided to introduce a new staff member in his department and said “let’s all turn cameras on and introduce ourselves to her!” Whoops! I had to laugh when cameras came on verrrry slowly for those of us on the West Coast. (The hairbrush and lipstick I keep in a desk drawer were clutch)
Should we break up?
I have been dating a man for almost 4 months. Lately (3 weeks?) I feel like I annoy him. It’s just a low grade thing but arises when I do something like appear “less confident” in the bedroom.
We are supposed to go on an international trip next month. I woke up thinking I should either bow out of the trip (he planned it before me) or break up entirely. Because isn’t this the honeymoon period? If I annoy him now, it will only get worse in 6 months. Right?
I have been liking him more and more, what a bummer:(
Anon
Is he negging you?
https://www.prevention.com/sex/a43921707/negging-meaning/
You say you feel like you annoy him. He’s managed to make you feel like this is something you’re doing wrong. I’d tread carefully here.
Anon
Can I ask what he’s doing/saying or not doing/saying that makes him seem annoyed?
Senior Attorney
I agree that this is probably a bad sign. But have you had an actual conversation about it? “Dude, I feel like I’m annoying you all the time. What’s up?”
Or you could go on the trip, see how it goes, and let that be the deciding factor. But it sounds like you don’t want to go, and you want to break up, so… there you go.
Anon
This sounds like the type of guy who loves the chase, but not the reality of a being in a relationship with a fully formed woman. I had an ex who started criticizing everything I did around 4 months in, and I wish I had run way sooner than I did.
Try talking to him about it, but if he doesn’t change, definitely run.
Anon
Contempt is one of the four horsemen of relationship failure. If he’s openly contemptuous of you now, exit.
NaoNao
The only thing I’d consider before breaking it all the way off is…is this a pattern for you, meaning are you seeking constant reassurance and doing to Anxious Attachment dance of “prove to me how much you like me” and asking the other person to basically manage emotions for you? Reason I ask is something about that wording on appearing less confident in the bedroom is giving the vibe of “do you *really* like me?” type interactions, which you *are* in full control of.
If you’re honestly just living life and feeling less than terrific one day, and he’s acting annoyed, yep, red flag. But if you really like him, I’d bring it up, with concrete examples (and if you’re not able to point to any concrete behaviors or words, that may be a sign that it’s projection and anxious attachment). Like “the other day when I wanted to keep my shirt on, you rolled your eyes and huffed. It felt like you were annoyed, and to be frank I’m getting those reactions a little more than I’d like. What’s up?”
Nonny
Recommendations for movers in Minneapolis or St. Paul, MN for a move across town for a senior on limited budget? Any recommendations for materials on how to pack and move specifically for this age group? Do you have moving experience on what worked well or what not to do for a senior that is moving from one apartment to another? TIA
AnoninMN
Home to Sweet Home was the company we used to move my grandma from senior living to assisted living and then again to a nursing home in St. Paul. They were absolutely wonderful start to finish. They came over to meet her, took many pictures, discussed what things should be moved (she needed to downsize each time). On the moving day they moved essentials in first (raised toilet, recliner so she had somewhere to sit, etc). Then they painstakingly placed all the books and trinkets back on her bookcase the way she had them, re-assembled the living room furniture just the way she had it laid out complete with lamps and plants in the correct spot, and on and on. It was great! I think it really eased this scary transition for her to have many of her things the way she liked and no suffer through multiple days of packing and moving, which it would have been if we had tried to do this ourselves. Best of luck on your upcoming move!
Nonny
Wonderful! Thanks for sharing.
smurf
can’t speak to the senior angle but used Veteran Movers LLC in 2018 & will use them again when we sell. On time, very affordable pricing, didn’t break or lose anything. Moved furniture to exactly where we wanted it.
generally – labelling boxes VERY clearly so movers can put them in the right room/area is a big help.
Nonny
thanks so much!
anoncat
My friend’s husband has not been getting paid for the past year. He gave up a lucrative job in engineering to work for 2 stealth mode startups who are not paying him in cash, or given him any equity, because they’re “pre-funding.” It doesn’t even sound like he has any type of agreement with either of them. None of this passes the sniff test to me. Even a really early stage startup can hand out worthless preferred stock. He does at least seem to have agreed to an end date of EOY if neither of these wild bets pans out by then, and will get a real job at that point. My friend makes a decent salary, but in our VHCOL area, going from 2 incomes to 1 is no joke. She has not asked me for advice, so I shouldn’t say anything, right?
Senior Attorney
Right.
Anon
Correct. Not your circus.
Anon
Right.
I’m in the Bay Area and this is pretty common. Based on what I’ve seen, it’s maybe 80-20 that he’ll be unemployed come year end and go back to a regular job that pays six figures vs that the startup will hit it big and he’ll become a hundred millionaire. I wouldn’t do it because I’m risk averse and also hate startup culture, but statistically it’s not a bad gamble. The worst case outcome is not that much worse than if he’d never left his regular job, and the best case outcome is like winning the lottery.
anoncat
I disagree that the odds are as rosy as 80-20. It might be something like 20% of startups can make it past the first year. But definitely not that 20% of them will IPO or get acquired in even the first several years. And the worst case outcome is objectively worse than if he’d never left his regular job. He presumably has no benefits right now, and has not brought in any income in a year.
Anon
I didn’t say 20% of startups make it big but that 20% of people I know who’ve joined startups have made it big. Very different statements. The people I know are clearly much better than average at sussing out what will be successful.
Anon
Yeah I’d put it at 5% or less for the big payout. 1%? Unpaid work is generally unpaid work.
anon
I agree both that this doesn’t pass the sniff test and don’t say anything because you haven’t been asked for advice.
Anon
Right. And I wouldn’t be surprised if you don’t have the complete picture.
anoncat
This is fair.
Anon
Don’t say anything.
anon
This sounds super sketchy, but I wouldn’t say anything unless your friend says it first.
Anonymous
Obviously yes. This isn’t your business.