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Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Side-Knot Midi Dress

The Personal Shopper (TPS) | · ·

A woman wearing a medium-blue, short-sleeved midi dress

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

When I was a baby lawyer, I found a machine-washable, short-sleeved dress that looked great, fit me perfectly, and was less than $100. I bought it in four colors and didn’t regret it for a minute. This sheath from Nordstrom Rack could be the 2023 version of that dress.

Mix up the four colors with different blazers, sweaters, and accessories. and getting dressed in the morning couldn’t be easier.

The dress is $29.97 at Nordstrom Rack and comes in sizes 1X–3X and XXS–L.

P.S. Happy Eid to those who celebrate!

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Workwear sales of note for 9.20.23:

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Ellen

    Ooooh Elizabeth! I love this wrap dress from Nordstrom Rack! My Nordstrom personal shopper never showed me anything like this, and I wonder if it was b/c they did not want to cannabalize their retail sales with this wrap? What do you think? It is kind of like trying to get bargans on Hoka walkers. You never know whether they are authentic or not. So for the time beeing, I will continue to patronize my personal shopper b/c she continues to get me the best stuff before anyone else, and that is what my manageing partner wants. We have a new associate that the manageing partner had me hire that I am grooming, and I think the manageing partner may want me to start having her attend meetings with prospective cleints b/c she is very cute and young, being right out of law school last June. She is still trying to pass the bar, so we are giving her alot of time off to study and make sure she passes this time, b/c we have a firm rule that you need to pass by the second try, as our old associate, Mason, had to be let go b/c he never passed the bar, and was busy romancing with Lynn rather than studying b/c his dad was a big cleint. His dad wound up leaving after we fired his son, so we are sticking to our “no pass/no job” policy.

  2. Anonymous

    Good morning. I am looking for recommendations for a lawyer in the DC area to help me set up basic estate documents including a will, power of attorney, etc.

    I think it should be on the simpler side. I’m mid-30s, no kids, no spouse, asserts in house, retirement accounts, and taxable brokerage. Thanks in advance!

    • Anonymous

      PSA if you have access to an EAP through your employer, you can find someone that way. We had a simple will and power of attorney done for only about $400 through my EAP in 2016 in DC.

      • anon

        Counterpoint — I tried to do that, the EAP-connected lawyer tried to suggest all sorts of silly things I didn’t need or want, when we just wanted a simple will, and eventually fired me as a client since we didn’t see eye-to-eye.

        • Ellen

          There are no shortage of bad lawyers in DC, as I went to school there. Many of my classmates stayed to get goverment jobs, and then went into private practice doing whatever came in the door. I could give you names, but none of them are any good, so you’d do better to go to the DC bar for recommendations. The guys I know just wanted one thing from me, and I was NOT about to give them that, unless I was actually interested in them romantically, which I was NOT. So be carful when you are in the office with them alone. FOOEY!

  3. Anon for this

    Help me outfit-plan? Friday night wedding welcome party at a beer & wine garden in mid-Atlantic exurbs. Could be hot and sticky, could be cool and rainy (early May). Most attendees will be my extended family and based on prior similar events, they’ll be in Chico’s type attire. Not a jeans event, more like ‘snappy casual’ if anyone used that phrase outside the south. My existing options that are festive, event-appropriate, and suit both my own style and the group’s style are (1) a navy Nap Dress, and (2) an Elsa top from Lilly with navy ankle pants, but I’m bored of both these outfits and looking for inspo!

  4. Anon

    Talk to me about running spikes. I need to get kiddo her first pair for track tomorrow and have been sent to a good local store (run by runners, they also help size you). Any good brands for women’s sizes or shoes for feet with high arches? Like do you run some in a track to break them in or just wear for races?

    • anon

      These are all great questions for the people at the running store or her coach.

      • Anon

        Got it — I don’t even know what the brands are, so if there is anything like “New Balance runs wide”, that would be good to know because wide shoes often work well when you need more forefoot volume for high arches. Does NB make spikes? Stuff like that as background knowledge would be good. I had spikes for my one season in softball, so I suspect that running spikes are different than softball/soccer spikes sneakers.

        • Anonymous

          Truly you just need to go to the store and ask. They are experts at this and will see your actual daughters feet.

        • Anonymous

          You don’t need to know that–the running store people know that. They will have her stand on a scanner to analyze her foot shape and then bring out some shoes they think will work. There won’t be that many options for spikes anyway.

        • Anon

          This is why you go to a running store. They know these things. After that, you really just need to try them on and run in them. Your daughter should also be talking to her teammates about these things. When I ran track, I didn’t have my mom figuring out what to buy for me, I talked to my friends and read books and magazines about running. Now we have the internet and an endless amount of information at her fingertips. Let her do some of the research.

        • Cat

          You should just go to the store – they will assess her feet and account for all of these things.

      • Anonymous

        This. Also be aware that there are different types of shoes for different events/distances, and different lengths of spikes for different track surfaces (dirt v. all-weather). Ask the coach what length(s) of spikes she will need and make sure she has a couple of sets in each length.

    • Anon

      I ran all the way through college, and if you have time, the best option is to take her to the store and let her try on the different shoes. Racing spikes, like running shoes, are incredibly personal. If the store is a good one with actual runners helping, the clerks will pull a variety of spikes, and she should take some laps around the store to test them out.

    • Anon

      The running store will have strong opinions so you don’t need to worry about knowing anything. Only tip is to be sure she is wearing the type of good quality socks she would race in (which they will sell) and to buy enough spikes and a backup spike removing tool so when she inevitably loses some it’s no big deal. For cross country you should have various different lengths of spikes depending on the conditions, but can’t remember if that’s a thing for track. Some people keep them in a bag so all the stuff is together but not necessary.

      As for how to get used to them, ask the coach. If she is a sprinter and starts from blocks you definitely want to practice that as it will feel different from other shoes, but for distance running not really that different (you just feel faster because they are light).

      • Anon

        Thanks — this is helpful to know. I called the store location closest to us to make sure they had shoes in stock in her size and they did in short- and middle-distance, which a whole new concept for me. I know that the coaches talked to the kids about this at practice, but I wish they’d also give more instructions to parents so that we don’t get things wrong.

        • anon

          You need to start teaching your child more individual responsibility. You’re clearly a great and conscientious Mom.

          • Anon

            +1: her sport, her shoes, her responsibility. I played a bunch of sports growing up (and one in college) and basically my parents gave me a budget but it was on me to figure out what I needed.

          • Anon

            Just wondering — at what age? I feel like for kids who can drive, an adult thing, they can have adult-type responsibilities. For kids in elementary school or early middle school, IDK. If they are too young to babysit (which requires a lot of good decision-making), I am not sure that this is going to end well. They might be OK going in for a second item of any sort, but getting the initial item right is where the challenge is.

            E.g., for one kid’s sports, they have a fitting day where you go and get the suit for swim team and they measure you and they have exactly what you need or will order it. For another — the uniform is on the website. For another, thankfully they just wear the shirt and you wear whatever shorts/pants make sense for the weather.

          • Anonymous

            This. Take her to the store and then sit in the corner while she talks with the shoe expert and tries things on.

          • Anonymous

            I definitely picked out my cleats, soccer shin guards, basketball shoes, lacrosse stick, and other equipment by the end of elementary school. I do come from a family of athletes though, so I guess if I was making a terrible decision my parents could intervene but they didn’t. Though, I also saw nothing wrong with the track uniform shorts though so maybe my judgement is off compared to the rest of this board.

          • pugsnbourbon

            There’s an educational concept called “scaffolding” that I think applies here. Basically you provide a framework for support and then take a step or two back once things start rolling. She’ll make mistakes, but she’ll learn and she’ll gain confidence moving forward.

          • Anon

            First of all, this is why you go to the running store, so they can help you get it right. But second, so what if you get it wrong? She has to run in spikes that are the wrong length or you have to go back and buy different ones (they’re not that expensive, but you could make her pay). I decided on all of my own clothes and gear by mid elementary school, so this is definitely doable. You can go with and help her, but the main decision should be hers.

          • Anonymous

            +1 million for scaffolding! This is the approach I took with my daughter, now 16. It started out with her choosing her own toiletries and clothes in elementary school. When she entered high school at age 13 I gave her a budget for all of her belongings. When she turned 15 she got a bank account and a debit card. Now she does all her shopping completely independently, although she has to comply with family rules for clothing etc. We did something similar with cooking. When she was very small I would have her help with defined tasks. Then she got some cookbooks and we would plan and cook meals together. Later I would help her plan sequencing, etc. and be available to help as needed. Now she will plan a whole dinner, go to the store to buy the ingredients, cook with proper timing so everything is ready at the same time, and clean up most of the mess.

          • Anonymous

            The switch between “helpless child” and “responsible adult” does not magically flip when a kid gets their driver’s license. I would never trust a kid who wasn’t responsible enough to pick out her own track shoes to drive a car. You need to give her progressively larger responsibilities.

          • Cat

            +1000 to 11:50. A middle schooler is 100% capable of understanding the guidelines for homework, which is essentially what “get yourself the correct track shoes” is in the context of an extracurricular. You might have to drive her to the store but let her talk to the employees about her needs herself!

          • Seventh Sister

            I have to buy my 15yo daughter pointe shoes, and I’d make the same phone call if I had to drive longer than 10 minutes and/or go to a new place. Those suckers are expensive. She can’t drive yet and I only have so much time. She’s generally quite independent and self-sufficient, but I already feel like her personal, unpaid rideshare driver and I have podcasts to listen to and movies to watch.

          • Anonymous

            I don’t think there is anything wrong with verifying that the store has shoes in stock. And pointe shoes are a whole other animal. I am assuming that your daughter prefers one brand and style and shank and vamp and…

          • Anon

            Strongly agree. The coach was not delinquent in giving insufficient information; they gave the correct information which was go to the running store. It seems like you just don’t really trust that could be a good enough approach. If they wanted you to do something really specific, they would have told you – for example, it’s very common with first pointe shoes for the ballet teacher to schedule a time for the whole class to go to the store together so they can be really involved in the fittings and then from there, they’ll help the student monitor if they should think about a different size or brand or what have you. Spikes just aren’t like that. How could you know that? You’d have to trust that the coach knows what they are doing.

          • anon

            Seventh Sister – but your daughter could be making those calls, see?

            More podcast time for you! Good learning for her. She also needs to appreciate the time, money, challenges to getting the supplies for her hobbies.

        • Anon

          Your child is no longer a child. She can learn to take responsibility for these things. That’s how she becomes a capable adult. Sometimes she’ll get things wrong. She’ll learn even more from the mistakes. If you just keep doing everything for her, she’ll never develop confidence in her own judgment and always be terrified of getting things wrong, which I think is a skill that maybe both of you could work on.

          • Anonymous

            What an incredibly rude comment. And you literally have no idea how old her kid is. Maybe a skill you can work on is kindness.

            I also don’t think anyone would say this to a guy. And I watched my husband go through similar when lining up golf equipment with my stepson since he had never played and wanted to minimize chance of injury/not look like the odd one out. He knew hockey and baseball, so those were no biggie.

          • Anonymous

            This. You have to let go and let your child make small mistakes while she is young. That way she won’t be completely clueless and make big mistakes as an older teen. One example is an allowance. If you let an 8-year-old waste their allowance in the dollar spot at Target they will eventually realize that spending all their money on junk is not as much fun as saving up for a nice thing they really want. That lesson may help prevent them from making poor spending decisions in college or as a young adult.

          • Anonymous

            For track spikes, very few dads I know (including runners) would do anything other than take the kid to the store, let them pick out the shoes, maybe verify with the clerk that they were the right kind, and then pay.

          • Anonymous

            Anon @ 11:40, this appears to be the same poster who is constantly hand-wringing about how her middle school daughters are bad at math and are going to ruin their lives by not getting into flagship state U, etc. She seems to have some serious anxiety issues.

          • Anon

            I don’t think this was a rude comment, and I’m pretty sensitive! OP the risk of a mistake here is pretty low. This seems like a lot of prep work for a pretty low stakes question. Worst case, she shows up with the wrong spikes, and a coach tells her she needs different ones. But also, the way to avoid this is to just show up to the shoe store, have your child tell the clerk she is running X event, and ask what shoes are appropriate.

          • Anon

            Agree, I didn’t think was a rude comment either. Direct, but no name-calling or condescension. And I frequently find a lot of the comments on this board condescending!

          • Anon

            She didn’t ask for parenting advice. If you never ran track, scroll by. Stop being mean

      • Another Track Mom

        I’m surprised the track coach didn’t give you guidance. My son’s high school coach set up a thing at the shoe store with discounts for team members. I’m not a runner so just passing things along as a mom, but my kid doesn’t seem to break in or train in the spikes. They’re saved for races. They are thin and light. Also if your coach doesn’t pass along information on watching for low iron levels in girl runners, please look into it so you know what to watch out for.

    • Anon

      If you want to do more research before you get to the store, go find some running-specific forums. r/running might be helpful, and I’m sure there are others out there. Or just google your questions and you’ll probably find some.

    • Anon

      IMHO, some of the issue here is that there are things for which you should do some research beforehand and things for which the specialists will do it all for you. This is the latter situation. Your daughter should ask the coach if there are any applicable regulations on the spikes (length or material), then take that information to the running store. They will get her in shoes that work for her feet, event, and stride.

      I’m a running shoe geek (currently have eight pairs in rotation across four brands) and cannot help with this. This is a “try them on in person and ask the experts” issue.

  5. Anon

    advice for trying to start a new job on the right foot after departing from really challenging situation?
    I’ve got a week before new job starts and a few days into my break realize that old job (micromanager boss, ridiculous demands with no support/resources, chaotic company, problematic senior leadership) has kind of done a number on me and I’m still processing. hoping to try to offload some baggage.

    • AIMS

      I went through this and got a haircut/blow out right before starting – it’s silly but it helped me feel like I was starting on fresh footing.

      • Anon

        thanks! that’s a great idea. along those lines, new job is hybrid (old was full remote), so identifying what clothes I’m going to wear may also help to draw a line.

    • Monday

      I have worked in some insane situations. Writing out my experience was helpful for me, because I was so gaslit that I had lost touch with what was really happening. Seeing it on paper and how outrageous it was, was helpful in getting my head back on and recalibrating my expectations.

    • Anonymous

      Get outdoors! Hike, long walk in the park or botanical garden, bike ride, paddling, etc.

    • Anon

      – If you meditate or want to try it, do a 15 or 30 minute meditation every day. Try to focus on what you want out of your new situation – peace? Support? Advancement? There are recorded meditations on Spotify and other streaming services that may help.
      – Write a pen-and-paper letter to your old boss (or your old company leadership) telling them everything you’d ever wanted to say to them or realize now you should have said. Then, burn or trash the letter (DEFINITELY do not send it).
      – If you still have company swag – t-shirts, mugs, pencils/pens, water bottles, etc. – from the old company, put all of it in a box and take it to a donation center, or ceremoniously dump it in the trash.
      I went through the wringer in a couple of jobs and it does take awhile to reframe your thinking, so be gentle with yourself. In your new job, you may have to remind yourself: this is a new situation; the old rules don’t apply. Good luck in the new opportunity!

    • Anon

      A mini-getaway, if you can afford it, but something super relaxing like a spa or high end all-inclusive resort.

    • anon

      How is your general health? Do you have a regular exercise/walking/outdoors routine? Now that you are going in to the office more, think about how to get that in. It will help you re-equilibrate, and bring the stress level down as you transition.

      Maybe a simple after (in-person) work days…. you stop someplace for a yoga class one day, or meet a friend for a drink/coffee/dinner another day etc…. So the work days have rewards/things you look forward to. To help you decompress..

    • Anon

      Agree with all above suggestions. And when you start your new job, don’t revert to the way you did things before if they will remind you of the toxic place. Like i chose a different ring tone and sounds for my new work phone because the old one gave me a racing heart every time I heard it. I use a different type of notepad for my to do list. And i also suggest developing a mantra that this place is not like the old place, you can start new, and you were hired because you are good at what you do.

      congrats on the new job!

  6. Anom

    The side twist on the dress reminds me of the side ties/twists I had on maternity dresses. It was actually a really nice and flattering touch and comfortable. I’m sure when you place the tie/twist at an actual waist and not right above the baby belly it would NOT look like a maternity dress and could look quite flattering.

    • Anon

      Funny, I was just thinking “that twist detail could make anyone look pregnant.” Although maybe just me. After 4 kids, anything drawing attention to the weight I carry in my low belly makes me feel like I look pregnant.

    • Anonymous

      My first thought when I saw this was that it looked like a maternity dress and would make most women look pregnant even if they weren’t.

      • Anon

        Ha — Boden’s waist placement made my non-pregnant stomach look like a bump. That was pre-COVID — is that still a thing with Boden? I’ve always liked their things but they haven’t liked me.

    • Anon

      The side twist is too high in this dress – unless you have washboard abs, it will highlight any weight in the abdominal area. A lower twist tends to be more flattering.

  7. Annie Nominous

    I need a basic leather belt. Does anyone have any recommendations? I’d like to spend less than $100. I’m currently looking at Made Well. Where else should I look?

  8. JTM

    Just back from a work trip where I got the worst sleep of my life thanks to the terrible bed at the hotel. Why do so many hotels have super firm mattresses???? Any tricks or tips on making it softer or adjusting to it? I normally sleep on my back and need a soft mattress, and hotel beds are always way too firm for me and make my back ache.

    • Anon

      Oh wow. Hotel beds always used to be way too soft for me! We must be staying in different hotels, or maybe times have changed. Or we’re just different because I need a softer topper for side sleeping, and a firmer mattress for sleeping on my back.

      In your position, I might ask for extra quilts and pile them up under the sheets for an ad hoc topper. Honestly, for all I know they have toppers stashed away somewhere for people who ask for them, so I would at least ask.

    • Anon

      I’m fine with hotel beds but cannot stand hotel pillows! I need a firm pillow (usually 2!) to sleep well and I feel like hotel pillows have no substance!

      • Anon

        Hotel pillows are a land of extremes. I can stack two soft ones, but a firm one requires a chaser of Aleve for the next day. I’d rather wad up a blanket or my fleece or even some towels.

      • Anon

        Just got back from a business trip and am kicking myself because it’s going to take a week of PT exercises to make my neck stop hurting. And I drove myself, so I totally could have taken my own pillow with me! Hotel pillows are ridiculously bad.

    • Anon

      If at all possible, stay in a different chain. I find that Hilton brands tend to have comfy mattresses.

    • Anon

      Dunno if this is feasible for you but thought I’d suggest it.

      My son ends up sleeping on a lot of pull-out couches when we travel, and we bought an inflatable camping pad that rolls down very small and fits in checked or carry-on luggage. We inflate the pad and put it under the bottom sheet on the pull-out mattress so it stays put. It works really well to make a marginally-comfortable situation a lot more bearable.

    • Anonymous

      I’m a light weight but curvy side sleeper.
      I need a soft bed and pillows, and have found that the boutique style hotels more often have beds that work for me. I often travel with an extra down pillow as a topper for the hotel ones.

    • brokentoe

      You have my sympathies – this happens to me as well. Several years ago on a cruise I encountered a really hard bed that I was certain would ruin my entire trip. I was able to make it through by essentially sleeping on extra pillows. I would put two under my head, one under my back and one under my knees. Gave me enough extra support to make it bearable. I now do this pretty much anytime I have to stay in a hotel.

    • Anon

      Call housekeeping and ask if they have a pillow top or padding they can put on the bed. Usually the answer is no but sometimes I get lucky.

  9. Anon

    I’m interviewing for a job that I think would be challenging but I would love. I’m having a really hard time not getting ahead of myself; so far I’ve only done one interview so the job is far from mine.

    Any tips on tempering my excitement?

    • Anonymous

      Honestly, there are so few things that I really get excited about now, that I’d just say enjoy it while it lasts! Yes, you may end up being really disappointed, but if so, you probably already know some ways to cope with disappointment; you’ve probably been disappointed before and been OK, and if you’re disappointed now, you’ll also be OK.

      Or, to say it another way, learn from your past. If you know from past experience that you tend to crash and burn in really bad ways if you get disappointed, then yes, temper your excitement. But if you know from the past that you tend to quash your excitement simply out of fear of being disappointed — then let yourself enjoy some fun.

      • Anon

        That is true; I don’t like my current job but it is fine (I’m not in a rush to get out), so I might as well fantasize about the possibility of the job I am interviewing for! I have already scoped out the commute, the new gym, the wardrobe, and some projects I’d like to suggest. But, I’ll just enjoy my fantasy for the time being :)

    • Anon

      Don’t. Excitement comes through and more than once it’s tipped the scale for me when deciding between two strong candidates. It’s okay to be disappointed if things don’t work out too, but don’t let that possibility get in the way.

  10. Anon

    To whomever recommended Kara Goucher’s book, I haven’t read it yet, but I found that she has a podcast and I’ve had a good time this week listening to her. I am not a runner at all (I am sort of like that La Tortuga guy in baseball except that I am also very slow), but she is inspiring.

    • Anon

      That was me, thanks for the rec! And I’ll repeat the book suggestion for anyone who missed it. I liked both this one and Lauren Fleshman’s that came out a few months ago. Together they definitely have me convinced I never want to buy anything from Nike ever again! I don’t run anymore, but I ran in high school around the same time and remain active, so I find their experiences interesting.

      • Anon

        I went to college with Lauren (and her husband, who we always called hot Jesse) and they are good peeps. I love to watch them now and see how they’ve stayed in sport (and been entrepreneurs too). Very cool!

  11. Anon

    I bought some sandals last year and wore them for a mile + walk to a restaurant (that I could stagger home from) with no issues. This year — walking a few blocks in them has already shredded my feet. Ugh. Any recommendations for sandals that won’t require slapping Leukotape all over your feet?

    Related: what metallic Birkenstock color will be my go-with-everything sandal? This summer I’d like something cuter in addition, but the Birks may be the best there is for daily driver comfort. Will wear with shorts and dresses but I doubt they are ever going to be cute enough for Lilly.

    • Anon

      I love metallic Birks. I think any color is fine, but I would base it off of your existing wardrobe! What color fits best with what you wear?

    • Anonymous

      You just have to build up those callouses again. I start wearing sandals/flip flops for a few hours at a time as soon as it’s warm enough that my feet aren’t freezing.

      • Anon

        Same here. At the beginning of summer my feet can barely handle sandals, even the ones I walked daily 10k steps in last year. The trick is to wear sandals for short errands until your feet build up a tolerance. I start with my supportive pairs like birkenstocks before graduating to flip flops.

    • Anon

      I have some that are sort of a bronze color (not as bright as gold) and they’re a good neutral.

    • Anon

      For fashion Birks I prefer the “big buckle” Arizona; I think it looks more intentionally “fashionable” than the usual Arizona ones. I personally like the silver, but you can’t go wrong with any metallic shade!

    • Lydia

      the Birkenstock website has some exclusive styles that are a bit cuter — I like the ones where the sole color matches the straps (for example, red, royal blue, they used to have aqua and mauve as well)….

    • No Face

      I am done with cheap sandals, but I loooooove Birks. Did the Birks shred your feet, or another type of sandal?

      I think of any metallic as a neutral personally.

  12. Anon

    Any recommendations for how to best tell your shade for drugstore foundation, blush, or concealer? Target has a ELF sale right now, and I’ve always loved ELF’s products (I think they punch way above their weight class!) so was hoping to try a few new products from them, as I’m trying to break my Sephora habit. However, I’m useless at telling what shades will be a good match for me.

    • JTM

      Ulta has a tool on their website/app that will tell you the shade you need based on a shade you use – if you know your shade in a brand like Nars or Fenty you can use that to get an approximate idea of the right shade in another brand.

      Also Target will allow you to return open makeup, so I’d say just buy a bunch of stuff you’re interested in & then return what doesn’t work.

    • Anon

      I’ve done it a couple of times. Right now I just have one cup of Earl Grey tea in the morning – a big cup but just one tea bag. I used to drink several cups of coffee a day.

      It will suck. You’ll feel tired and will have a headache. Make sure you have some food in your stomach so you can take Aleve.

      I quit completely then added the tea back because I just missed the experience of a hot beverage in the morning. The caffeine is much lower in the tea. I quit (twice, the first time didn’t stick) because I didn’t like how coffee made my hands shake, and because it seemed to be causing me digestive issues.

      • Ellen

        I am a BIG coffee drinker personally and love Nescafe Colombian instant coffee. Am I the only one that does not like STRONG BREW? I love Dunking Donuts coffee because of that! YAY!!

    • anon

      Well…. why do you drink it? Do you love it? Do you need it for the caffeine?

      I know a few people that quit because of migraines, and it was hard for them. Most went back to drinking it because their migraines didn’t improve and may have gotten worse, and losing coffee decreased their quality of life. Caffeine helped them wake up after a rough night and often helped their headaches in the morning.

      I have a few relatives who quit because of “health reasons”. I don’t think it was a specific health concern, they just thought caffeine = bad, and they are a bit pretentious and like to act like they are best at everything. They actually don’t really enjoy food/drink and just “eat to survive” so it wasn’t a big loss for them. Funny thing – they drink a lot of alcohol though.

      My friends who have been most happy decreased their caffeine/coffee to just 1 cup in the mornings, decaf later in the day or just tea/other drinks. They made the shift because of problems sleeping/worsening anxiety with caffeine. But they also made big changes to their sleep hygiene too.

      One sibling had to stop completely because it triggered their anxiety. They miss it terribly.

      • Anon

        Coffee is a vasoconstrictor. Migraines happen (I think) because of overly dilated blood vessels.

        • Anon

          It’s thought that the migraine is a momentary constriction of a blood vessel (the aura) followed by a dilation and a rush of blood (the headache.) That’s why “fast acting” aspirin like Excedrin Migraine uses caffeine – partly to re-constrict that blood vessel to lessen the headache.

          My ordinary non-migraine cure is two Aleve and a full sugar coke.

    • Anonymous

      I started drinking coffee when I was 24. I actually really enjoy the taste of a cup of strong black coffee. When I was TTC, I had to give up carbs, sugar and alcohol. I just couldn’t give up my coffee too: I felt like I had no small pleasure to look forward to (I don’t enjoy tea as much). Now I have three small children and drinking a hot cup of coffee in silence before my kids wake up is genuinely the best part of my day. If you’re just trying to give it up because it’s “bad for you” I’d say don’t bother. If a doctor has told you to stop or you’re very caffeine sensitive, that’s a different story.

    • Anon8

      So I have always been a big coffee drinker and quit caffeine entirely in November to try to improve my migraines. Long story short it was not worth it for me. I was drinking about 2 cups a day and went down by a half cup every two days until I was at 0 cups per day, and got caffeine withdrawal headaches for 10 days after my last cup. After that I consumed literally zero caffeine– no decaf, no non-herbal tea, no chocolate for four months.

      It was…fine? I didn’t have tons of extra energy or sleep way better, I noticed no magical effects of not drinking caffeine, I just drank like 8 cups of herbal tea a day and envied everyone around me who drank coffee. It helped a little with the migraines, but once I got on a med that worked better for me I went back to drinking coffee and let me tell you that first sip– so freaking good. I am back to my two per day habit and cherish every sip, lol.

      That said, I’m glad I tried it so now I know. Obviously no harm in trying it, so if you’re thinking it might help you, why not give it a shot?

      • anonshmanon

        I once gave it up just to see if I could do it, and tapered down even more slowly than you, from 2 cups a day to none over the course of 2 or3 weeks. I still got withdrawal for 2 weeks when I stopped, which surprised me. I started drinking coffee again after 1 month because I love the flavor. I don’t recall feeling a big difference once my withdrawal was over, but I sure envied other people drinking delicious coffee in front of me and decided to end my little experiment.
        What has made a difference to me is only having one cup in the morning, and switching to decaf for the rest of the day. It one hundred percent improves my sleep.

      • anon

        I got the best results from just giving up coffee after lunch time, compared with all together. In my mind (with no scientific research) that gave enough time to not interfere with sleep but still kept my happy morning routine.

    • anon

      I had to due to morning sickness first trimester of each pregnancy — I mean it was worth it to reduce morning sickness? Did I go back immediately, of course.

    • here she goes

      My best friend has really, really dialed back her caffeine/coffee intake. She did it super slowly over several months, and still has some via pre-workout but almost no coffee at all. Coffee in particularly makes her feel really jittery. By dialing it back slowly and trying different forms of caffeine she figured out that it wasn’t caffeine specifically for her, but coffee specifically.

      So now I drink all the coffee for both of us, since my coffee/caffeine tolerance has went up in the past 6 months. LOL

    • Anon

      Don’t bother quitting unless you have issues with caffeine. At various points I scaled back due to reflux, dehydration, and GI issues. Sometimes I quit for a few weeks, sometimes a few months. But I always come crawling back. I just love the flavor and caffeine buzz. Life is short and coffee is pretty healthy as far as indulgences go.

    • Anon

      Caveat that I was never a HUGE coffee drinker, but I quit because I didn’t like the headaches I’d get when I drank it even occasionally and then stopped for a day or two. I haven’t quit caffeine completely, my body can still handle tea and decaf coffee fine so I still get to enjoy the taste.

      • Anon

        (Fwiw when I say “headaches” these were NOT migraines, which I also get. Caffeine is not a migraine trigger for me. But I’d get mild caffeine withdrawal headaches that were annoying.)

    • Anon

      I really don’t get why people who like coffee want to quit coffee. There’s this longstanding old wives tale that it’s bad for you, but every single high-quality study confirms that the opposite is true. Coffee has tons of antioxidants and is linked to lower rates of cancer, Parkinson’s, diabetes, and other chronic health conditions. You’ll want to be mindful of caffeine consumption in certain scenarios, obviously, but if your desire to quit coffee is health-based, don’t fear – it’s great for you. Here is just one large literature review showing as much: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev-nutr-071816-064941

      • Anon

        I commented above. I like the taste of coffee (but decaf coffee tastes the same to me, so I’m not missing the taste) and I don’t think it was dangerous to my health. I just didn’t like the dependence on it and how I felt when I didn’t have it. I like being able to wake up and go about my day without immediately having to have coffee. I know there are people who can drink it without having a “need” for it, but even very moderate coffee consumption created a dependence I didn’t like. So that’s why I quit and I don’t miss it. But I still drink decaf.

      • Anon

        I read somewhere that coffee is the largest source of antioxidants in most Americans’ diets. Which is kind of alarming, but maybe a reason not to quit it if you don’t have to.

    • PolyD

      Agree with everyone that it depends on why you want to give it up.

      For a while, coffee with giving me some mild heart palpitations. So I switched to making it with half decaf so I could still have my two cups (I like a certain volume of coffee).

      There’s always cut down instead of cut out completely. Unless it’s causing you problems, there are really no compelling health reasons to give up caffeine.

    • Anon

      Yes, and it was absolutely the right choice for me. I’m very sensitive to caffeine, always have been. I gave it up for short stints in college a few times but basically cut it out entirely last January. You have to slowly mix in decaf over time, but if you do that it’s not very difficult to quit. It’s made me less anxious and improved my sleep. I have PCOS (one of the reasons I quit caffeine) and my periods have also gotten much more regular, but I’ve been doing a number of things differently so hard to say if quitting caffeine played a role or not.

      Now when I do have the occasional caffeine, I can really tell how much anxiety it gives me and how gross it makes me feel. I pretty much only drink it when I’m traveling, or on days when I’m really craving a specific cold brew drink (but more and more I’m finding that to not be worth it).

    • Anon

      Yes. Absolutely not. Delighted to have reintroduced it.

      I once heard someone described as just “worse in every way” when off coffee. That would apply to me.

    • Anonie

      OP here. The reasons to quit would be (1) to lower blood pressure (2) to reduce anxiety and (3) to sleep better. The blood pressure is a big concern – even on blood pressure meds, I’m still around 130/90.

      • anon

        I can only speak to #3. My sleep is not affected as long as I stop drinking coffee by noon. So I mainline it from 4:30 am to noon and then stop. YMMV!

      • anon

        These are good reasons to try to quit. How much do you drink now, and at what times of the day?

        With your concerns, I would also try to scale back/quit. If you are a 5-10 cups a day drinker (yes, there are quite a few people who do this…. and a Venti Starbucks is more than 1 cup of coffee…), then your goals may be different than if you only drink 1-2 cups a day. Make sure you make up for the loss of liquids with other liquids as you will be prone to get caffeine withdrawal headaches when you stop, and dehydration headaches will only make it worse.

        To improve your chance of success, start slow like the other posters describe. Keep the coffee initially in the AM, and titrate the amount of decaf or other drink options. I would keep a calendar log of your daily blood pressures, twice a day. Also, each AM give your “sleep quality” of the prior night a number out of 10. Maybe at the end of the day, give your “anxiety level” a number out of 10. Make sure you do this for at least a week or two before starting to cut down. See how things trend.

        It sounds like you may just genetically have higher blood pressure. It is not uncommon to need to be on multiple blood pressure medicines, so don’t let that throw you. It is what it is.

      • Anonymous

        Have you thought about starting by cutting back? Like if you have coffee at 5:30 a.m., 9:30 a.m., and 2:00 p.m., first cut out the 2:00 p.m. cup and then reevaluate?

      • Anon

        Those are great reasons. It helped me with 1 and 3. Caffeine (and alcohol) are so ingrained in most people’s lives, they don’t realize their baseline of sleep etc is so poor. Good luck!! Tips:
        Find substitute beverages
        Carry your own decaf tea bags or instant coffee. Decaf can be surprisingly hard to find.

      • Anon

        I quit when I was working in BigLaw. My office was right across from a little kitchen with a great coffee set up. My one cup in the morning became two became three, etc. My sleep was deeply affected—I never felt like I had actually been to sleep. I quit cold turkey. The first three days were tough; I had a horrible headache and felt like someone slid me under the door. After that, I felt good and I have never picked up the habit again. I very occasionally have a caffeinated beverage if I am in a situation where nothing else is offered. This has never triggered me or made me return to my earlier habits. I sleep better. My blood pressure meds work now. It’s worth trying but if you get past a few days, you are past the difficult part.

    • Anon

      I first quit coffee because I had m*graine related nausea that made it revolting (think morning sickness, but without the pregnancy and it never goes away). That was easy, since it was so unappealing, and I switched to tea instead. A few years later I developed bladder pain issues, so I stopped drinking tea too, which actually wasn’t much of a problem and I don’t really miss it. I’ve always been pretty sensitive to caffeine and couldn’t drink it after noon without having trouble sleeping and it would make me shaky if I had too much, so I’m fine just avoiding it most of the time. Herb teas are fine when I really want a warm drink. If I was more attached to coffee (which I always thought sort of bitter, and now find completely disgusting), I might feel differently about it, though.

    • Anon

      I don’t know why everyone is arguing with OP about quitting coffee. We should trust that she knows it’s right for her.

      • Anon

        A lot of very defensive coffee drinkers here! I don’t think it’s terrible for your health, but I think there are lots of good reasons to quit, including three that OP articulated.

      • Anonymous

        Not arguing. She asked whether it’s worth it and lots of people are saying it wasn’t worth it for them.

  14. Anonymous

    Has anyone been in this situation: I’ve been a partner for a couple of years and a junior partner asked for help with a case that’s going to trial in about a month. Turns out she’s done nothing to prepare; hasn’t even ordered deposition transcripts. She hasn’t staffed the case at all and she doesn’t trust any associates to help. She’s tied up on other matters and seems to want to basically drop this case in my lap and walk away until trial. I can’t attend trial, I’m out of town at that time. She won’t ask for a continuance. It is theoretically possible to prep for this trial in time but it would require heroic efforts. I want to help, I’d feel terrible in her shoes, but I can’t just drop everything. What would you be willing to do in this situation? What boundaries would you draw?

    • No Face

      I would not take on this case at all – there are some serious malpractice issues! I would also alert whoever it makes sense to alert – practice group leader, managing partner, executive committee etc.

      At one of my old firms, an attorney based stopped actually working on his cases, things were not done, and the firm had to deal with malpractice claims and court sanctions in multiple cases. Huge financial and reputational hit. This is a major problem that hurts clients.

      • anon

        +1

        I would not get involved at all at this point. Junior partner needs to have a total assessment of the situation with someone more senior, with you making it clear you cannot take on the case because you will be out of town.

        This Junior partner sounds like they need a lot more than help with just this one case. Don’t get sucked down this rabbit hole by plugging up holes when the person is drowning. They need a bigger intervention.

      • Senior Attorney

        This all day long. Do not get involved beyond blowing the whistle to whoever needs to know about this oncoming train wreck.

    • Anon

      I am not a litigator, so take this with a grain of salt – does she want you to prep everything and then she handles the trial itself? If so, I would decline (assuming there are others who can help her), and she can find someone who can prep and handle the trial (and presumably get credit for it).

    • anon

      So, she is negligent and basically wants you to be her associate? And is not even willing to ask for a continuance?

      Absolutely not.

      • Anon

        This! You’re a partner. She can handle this mess. I like the idea of alerting the managing partner. Take some extra time to get the details right and assess how much work is needed to pull this off in time.

        I am concerned that your firm promoted her to partner, if she thinks this is remotely acceptable.

    • Former Partner

      Ask your firm’s general counsel what to you should do. Once you tell the GC, your obligations — both to help and to report — should be over.

    • Anonymous

      I went to the practice group leader when I had a similar situation. They got involved, brought in a new lead partner with the current partner sitting second chair. and got the case ready.

    • Anon

      Reach out to your practice group leader for guidance today! I wouldn’t touch this case or put my name on anything going to court.

    • Anon

      Not your circus, not your monkeys. Do what you’re required to do in order to protect the firm, but do not wade into this mess.

    • Midsize firm anon

      Agree with the above. At my midsize firm (50 attorneys), here’s what I’d do:
      – decide whether I have capacity, both schedule and energy, to assist – I might if my hours were low, for example; I absolutely would not I was at par or busy
      – check the pay structure (is there a retainer on file?) to confirm whether my time will get paid for
      – if willing to help, tell Jr that we need to loop in practice group leader re: plan and staffing in the next 3 biz days. If not willing to help, I’d probably either 1) tell Jr no and recommend she work with PG leader, plus side convo with PG leader so PG leader can brace for it, or 2) email Jr and cc PG leader and say no, but, I recommend PG leader to help staff
      – In my firm this wouldn’t be a GC issue, not with the info we have now; I’d probably go to PG leader first and then PG leader would better understand if it’s a malpractice issue or if it’s just a crap situation to actually get prepped for trial. I.e. can transcripts get ordered. Were any motion deadlines blown.
      – if helping, then the first step is a very clear assessment of exactly where everything is. And Jr’s ability and capacity to figure that out. I’m picturing a template and working shared document so there is no question. See budget issue above, are you going to get paid for helping. Plus telling PG leader.

      Good luck!

  15. Anon

    I go into the office 3-5 days a week in a role that is technically “dress for your day”, but I do have to be ready to meet with executives, interact with students (higher ed, non-student affairs role), walk all over campus, go into storage and move boxes, etc. in a moment’s notice.

    I’m trying to put together a spring / summer rotation of outfits and am struggling. I’d love to have a rotation of maybe 7-10 outfits I can just rotate through but am unsure on how to best build this wardrobe. All of my work clothes were bought pre-pandemic so styles have changed, my body has changed (gained a bunch and then lost a bunch of weight), and my job has changed (I was in a more casual government role at the time). Everything I own feels blah and not up to the dress code I need for this job.

    I can wear jeans with a college t-shirt on Fridays but no jeans or casual wear on other days. No matter what I wear, I need to be able to throw on a blazer and head to a meeting. I generally prefer dresses, but that’s not always practical for my role. I’m 30, size 4-6 athletic pear (I run marathons and lift weights), and am 5 ft 3 (so generally prefer petites). My style is a weird mix of minimalistic chic (neutrals with clean lines, I love Theory) with an affinity for funky and bold statement pieces (I also love Farm Rio, but obviously not for work). I do not like the typical J. Crew / LOFT recommendations; that is very much not my style.

    I am also rebuilding my wardrobe on a higher ed budget, so I definitely plan on scoping out consignment shops, thrift stores, sales, outlets, and cheaper stores. Was hoping to do some scoping out or even some shopping this weekend!

    • No Face

      Can you keep a couple of outfits at your workplace for quick changes instead trying to have a wardrobe that meets all requirements? Like a “meet with executives dress” and a “storage room / walk across campus casual outfit”?

      For my current work wardrobe, I pair minimalist basics (straight leg pull on pants from Macy’s + Quince silk tank or tee) with interesting accents (blazer from a thrift store, big earrings from a farmer’s market, bright lipstick). I am comfortable and generally look appropriate for everything except for the courtroom.

      The Macy’s pants are $30 and I’ve worn them for years. Quince is not expensive and easily available on Poshmark.

      • pugsnbourbon

        +1 to the accessories, shoes and lipstick – this is how I shake up my otherwise rather boring wardrobe.

      • Anonymous

        I used to work in higher ed. I would not bother with multiple outfits, extra shoes, etc. I would advise OP to dress in something like the basic work outfit you describe and keep a blazer or sweater blazer in her office to throw on for big meetings.

    • Anon

      I’m going to word this as if you wear pants. You can substitute skirt or dress.

      Choose two neutrals. Buy a classic pair of pants that fit you well in each of those colors – not ankle pants, not super wide legs. Pants shaped like those that come with suits.

      Buy a top that matches each pair of pants so you can create a column of color. Buy some additional tops in colors or prints, ideally that work with both pants, but ok if they just work with one pair.

      For toppers, if you wear blazers you should have one or two neutral blazers that work with your pants and tops. For instance, if you have navy pants and a navy print top, a gray or tan blazer may work. A colored blazer might be fun too, and would probably work best on the column of color.

      I know you said this is not your style but you want executive presence. This is how you do it. As mm lafleur says, your clothes should not be the most memorable thing about you. A Farm Rio dress isn’t what you wear to meet won’t executives.

      If you want to add some splash you could do it with a print top or scarf, or funky shoes. You could also have a wildly patterned blazer, but you’d get less wear out of it because it would be so memorable you’d probably wear it less often.

      • Anonymous

        Hard disagree. You can dress in fun clothing that’s in your style and still be very professional and regarded for your work and not your clothing. If you read the original post, you’ll see that she mentioned that she likes Farm Rio but it’s obviously not for work.

        The outfits you describe seem boring and have the potential to be frumpy. I see plenty of on-trend, fashionable people at work who still look very professional and appropriate. I know plenty of executives with excellent executive presence who still show their style.

        • Anon

          +1 – I’m in the c suite and hate all the boring, allegedly “executive” looks advocated for here. I think the more current you look, the better and I’ve always been fashion forward and dare I say trendy and it’s only helped my career. The executive part comes with being groomed and clothes in good shape (not wrinkled, styled, etc.). OP, it’s a shame about jeans for you but in your shoes I’d sub in a couple of pairs of black pants cut like jeans or black jeans (rare to get called out for that). I do fashion sneakers with everything too. My favorite uniform is a great blazer, jeans or black pants and sneakers. If your hair is done, light makeup, some fun jewelry, this works for me for everything but big meetings.

          • Anon

            Nope, I always dressed as I do and it didn’t hold me back one bit. If anything, it helped me stand out. Again, though, the key is still looking polished. Never a rolled out of bed look or sloppy poorly fitting anything.

          • Anon

            Yet again, disagree. You can be junior and wear outfits with personality and your career won’t be held back so long as they’re appropriate and professional. If you look polished and professional, feel free to incorporate your style! It is FINE to be a woman with a career AND a personality.

          • No Face

            There’s definitely an extra-stodgy view about clothing from some posters. My simple wardrobe is exclusively because of my laziness and cheapness. I could be more fashionable and have the same exact career if I wanted to!

        • Anon

          I’m with you. These outfits sound boring with no personality. One-off meetings with executives don’t require you to wear a drab take on Elizabeth Warren’s uniform. Just avoid anything that looks like athleisure or weekend wear.

    • Anonymous

      I think this is the exact type of job for which the athleisure/work hybrid pant was invented. Look at Athleta.

    • Anon

      I would wear comfortable but sleek skirts, a Pleone top, and keep a blazer handy. Have comfy shoes for the walks around campus and keep a pair of sleeker shoes in office for meetings with execs.

    • Anonymous

      I know scarves aren’t generally trendy right now, but I feel like some wild, colorful scarves would be great. Wear black tank with black pants, put scarf around your neck (worn long, think like rock n rollers) and then a solid-colored blazer that matches a color in the scarf.

      dresses plus fun shoes

    • anon

      OK, I work in a role that sounds adjacent to yours. And this is what I’ve observed from people who are in roles similar to yours on campus.

      Since you’re moving around so much, start with the shoes. Comfortable ones that aren’t going to give you blisters or make your miserable walking across campus. Ideally something with structure; flimsy flats aren’t going to cut it.

      I’d get a couple of pairs of pants that have a bit of stretch to them. Again, you’re on the move.

      Then add tops that aren’t overly structured because structured tops are going to be a mess after a while, won’t stay put, and it sounds like it’s not really your style anyway. I have had good luck with some of the Calvin Klein shells that are in a stretchy fabric. They look nice, but I don’t worry about wrecking them.

      Keep a neutral blazer in your office to throw on as needed, but I wouldn’t plan your outfits around them. Like you could use a cardi as a topper and just take it off when you need to switch to a blazer.

      • anon

        More thoughts: One of my colleagues always wears dresses and skirts. She just makes sure they’re in a very forgiving fabric. Nothing precious or overly structured.

        The jardigan / swacket style is perfect for those of us who work on campus and need to strike that balance of “dressed up, but not TOO much.”

        • anon

          Good, I’m glad! Campus dress codes can be a weird animal. And formality can vary a lot depending on the role, the department, and the culture. Jeans are Not Done in my office unless it’s an office-wide jeans day, but for someone doing a similar role in another office, it’s completely acceptable.

          Oh, the specific top I’m thinking of is the CK Matte Jersey fabric. Not all of the prints are my taste, but I can usually find 1-2 good ones every season.

          • Anon OP

            I’m also in a small department so hard to gauge the dress code when there’s only a few people to model myself after!

    • anon

      Since you said you are good with Theory, they have a navy seersucker capri pant that works great as a minimalist basic. Likewise, try the Veronica Beard Renzo pants too. They fit similar to your Theory size (e.g., size up from normal). Both pants are in that middle ground of nice fabric but not suit fabric where they don’t look out of place with a t-shirt or underdressed with a blazer.

    • Anonymous

      There is a lot of workwear on the second hand sites, where you can find Theory, Vince, etc. For low end shopping, what about Cos or Aritzia? Both have clean modern pieces.

    • Anon

      As other posters mentioned, basic minimalist pants/toppers with stretch. I would put the “punch” in the tops with really bold colors if not actual prints. It depends on your climate but silk blouses from equipment, &other stories, tuckernyc, Alice+Olivia can give a more polished look even with more casual pants/blazers/jackets and they do show up on resale sites or Saksofffifth etc.. If you like Farm Rio, look for La DoubleJ silk blouses second hand (you might regret that suggestion, they are gorgeous but spendy!)

      I get a lot of compliments from matching my multicolored trainers to my color palette for more formal clothing ; I have a pair of Veja Rio Bravos that match a pair of MMlaFleur Foster pants and people go wild. I wouldn’t recommend Vejas, I’ve had a lot of quality control issues with them but the right color combo on Nikes or similar can look very chic if coordinated. And I know Quince gets recommended a lot but I have silk shells, some tees, and a cashmere hoody and I’ve been really disappointed in the quality.

    • Runcible Spoon

      if you want to mix it up and wear dresses on occasion, I suggest 3/4 sleeve v-neck stretchy synthetic knit faux-wrap dresses. They will expand or shrink to fit variations in weight, and don’t wrinkle. If they get wet in the rain as you cross campus, they’ll dry out in a jiffy. And you can often find them in fun patterns at Chicos, Talbots, and other stores, and they sometimes sport the side-knot or side-tie look.

  16. Sybil

    Yogis and/or Apple Fitness users, help me out. I’ve been doing yoga on and off for over ten years. I would say I’m a 2 or 2.5 on a skill level of 1-5. I’ve done in-person classes, some other online classes, and Peloton classes.

    I got Apple Fitness and I absolutely do not like their yoga classes and I can’t figure out why. I’m okay with Jonelle’s classes, but I don’t enjoy the others at all. I can’t tell if it’s a style issue or an instructor issue? But I’ve had a ton of other instructors and this has never happened before. People more knowledgeable than me, is there something weird about Apple Fitness yoga?

    • Anonymous

      Why does it matter? If you don’t like the Apple yoga classes, you don’t like them. Clearly there is some style of yoga you do enjoy, so go with what works for you.

    • Yoga on YouTube

      Would you be willing to find an instructor you like and then subscribe to his or her YouTube channel? When the pandemic meant we stopped exercising with others, DH and I started doing yoga at home. We may be at or just below your level, and we have identified a handful of instructors we like and whose videos we regularly use. They seem to make a lot of new ones all the time, so it never gets boring.

    • Anon

      Is it a different type of yoga than what you’ve done before and like? Can you describe *why* you don’t like it?

      But if you don’t like it, don’t do it! There’s so much out there, find what you like. (I’ll plug the Down Dog app, which is amazing and also has a huge variety of yoga types and ways to customize level and focus of the practice.)

    • Explorette

      Yes, there is something weird about Apple Fitness yoga! I can’t put my finger on what it is, but I have tried multiple classes and instructors and have not enjoyed them. I did Alo Moves all through Covid and really liked them, so its not a format issue. I really like AF’s cycling and running workouts though.

  17. Anon

    I had to leave the gym that I loved (I moved). At that gym I went to power yoga (yoga + strength) and lifting classes 2-3x a week. I am now a member of a more basic gym + have a pretty substantial set up at home. I would like to start a strength program (I’ve been pretty focused on building strength for the last 10 months, don’t want to stop) but I don’t know where to start.

    The program I was doing was mainly dumbbells (I was using between 8 – 15 lb weights), bands, and occasional other equipment (medicine balls, weighted bars, sliders). I’m not looking for a heavy lift program, but I need a set program (rather than just take Peloton strength classes, which I do love to supplement with). Class was full body, which I liked. It wasn’t intended as a strength for runners class, but I did notice that my running form and speed improved a lot as a result of strength training. I also LOVE how I look now and would like to keep that.

    I know there are so many programs online, so looking for feedback on ones you have liked or have not liked.

    • Anon

      I really like Les Mills Body Pump which you can get on demand! The Les Mills package includes a bunch of other types of classes too, but Body Pump is my favorite one.

      • OP

        Oh I LOVED body pump 2 gyms ago (I move a lot!). I recall it was mostly barbells + plates though. Does anyone do Les Mills at home, and if so how does that work equipment wise?

        • Anon

          I posted at 11:11. I have it at home. I have body bars (so different weighted bars with no plates – can get on Amazon for reasonable price). You can also do all (or most) of the exercises with dumbbells though.

          • OP

            Good to know! I live in a studio, so I didn’t see a way to do the step + barbell + plates in my apartment. I have some dumbbells, so I can start with that.

      • AnoNL

        Another huge fan of Les Mills On Demand here! I have a spin bike and a set of weights at home and do a workout [BodyPump, Grit, Strength Development, Trip or Body Balance] every day.

    • Anon8

      Caroline Girvan on YouTube!! Specifically her Iron series. She’s wonderful, her videos are straightforward and hard, but you can go at your own pace. She has a paid app coming out soon but her free programs on YouTube are staying up and are really great. My favorite part is that it’s a comprehensive program, so you can just do the next video in the series without thinking about what to do next.

    • BB

      Peloton actually has programs too that have set classes for a certain number of days a week. It’s a different tab on the app. And often they will be classes specially designed for that program, not just a mix tape of existing programs.

  18. Anonymous

    There is a very sad story in Colorado this morning with a young woman being killed by someone throwing a rock at her moving car. The perpetrators had thrown rocks at moving cars in several places, injuring a few people and then killing this 20-year old from Arvada. It happened less than five miles from our home, and the stupid pointlessness of this is infuriating.
    The local rumor mill is that the perpetrators are high school students, which if true, means their lives are now ruined with a homicide charge (it’s likely they’ll be caught because traffic cameras exist). Please remember to tell your children that stunts with friends can lead to horrific consequences.

    • anon

      Ugh, we had a run of incidents like this in my area. Kids were throwing heavy rocks on cars from bridges over major expressways. Just horrific. This was many years ago.

    • Violence Without Consequences

      I am old enough to remember making fun of Tipper Gore because she made record stores put warning labels on albums, but . . .

      Does anyone else have this sense that people are so quick to resort to violence in real life over the smallest issue (or no issue at all) — guns, rocks, punching, whatever — and that it could be because “everyone” watches movies or plays video games where people get shot and then just stand up and keep running, in flagrant violation of the rules of physics and biology and everything we know about what bullets from an AR15 do to the body?

      Am I just old now, or could this be true?

      • Kantian

        I think it’s more than video games. Our society does not value the dignity of individual human beings. It’s all about ME ME ME; other people are no longer viewed as fully human.

      • Anon

        No, conservatives definitely have tried and succeeded to whip up fear for anybody not like themselves. That, plus everyone owning a gun, leads to a lot of violence and death. Just look at the news this week.

      • anon

        I don’t think this has anything to do with video games. I don’t think this particular stunt is really related to violence in the way that you’re talking about, even. That being said – apart from this incident I think that part of the problem is that not enough people *do* know what an AR15 does to the human body. I understand why the Sandy Hook photos can’t be released, and don’t feel I could force that decision on the families, but if the damage from an AR15 to a child’s body was on the front page of every American newspaper tomorrow I think we would have a ban within weeks. And I speak as someone who is a gun owner (part of the large unrepresented class of gun owners who support extensive limitations on gun ownership).

        • Anonymous

          I think wider awareness of the power of AR-15s might affect policy, but the people who use AR-15s choose that weapon precisely because they know the type of damage it inflicts. It’s also kind of weird to believe that regular guns are OK just because they inflict less harm than a military weapon. (Not that you are saying this, but that’s the implication for the policy debate).

          • anon

            So there are definitely differences between the risk to a human based on the type of firearm and the type of round. Many people do not understand that and I think our regulations should, at a minimum, restrict the most damaging types of firearms and rounds to military and law enforcement use only. I don’t think that’s a weird position to hold at all – in the same way that we don’t allow just any yahoo on the street to own certain types of explosives. That said, any gun can kill someone – even a BB gun – and that’s why ours are stored locked, unloaded, separately from their ammunition in a place that children can’t physically reach without bringing a ladder across the house. I am very comfortable with making it extremely difficult and expensive to own even a “less dangerous” firearm – and I’m also in favor of amending the constitution to remove the 2nd amendment if necessary so that we can impose those limitations. To me, a reasonable gun owner doesn’t have anything to fear from gun regulation, but the NRA has done yeoman work in pushing an absolutely misleading view of gun regulation onto a lot of the gun owning population. Here’s hoping that they are battered into nothingness by their various bankruptcy problems…

      • AIMS

        I do think we are all walking on edge but I am not sure I would lay blame at violent movies or video games. I think there has been a lot of unprocessed trauma and stress the last few years, the world still feels like it’s on fire (or about to be), and we all suffer from being withdrawn from society In ways we have never experienced before – whether it’s because of pandemic isolation or social/technologically-enabled isolation. Technology is great in many ways but we are reaching a point where people no longer have to interact with each other which is going to have consequences, big and small. I have friends who get stressed out if they have to call to order pizza or accept a delivery. We don’t pick up the phone for unknown numbers. No one is supposed to show up unannounced. And, of course, depending on what you watch, you could believe you’re constantly in danger. Is it any wonder we are seeing people lose it when someone just comes to their door unannounced? (Not saying anyone is justified in that – just that, sadly, I think we are headed for more of this as the world keeps getting more isolated).

        • Anon

          I don’t think it was the pandemic. I think it was a candidate in 2016 who became president and ushered in the current era of hatred. Aided by Eastern European troll farms, which have a lot more influence than most people give them credit for.

        • Anonymous

          I don’t pick up the phone for unknown numbers if I’m not expecting a call because 99% of them are spam and the 1% that aren’t will leave a message if they actually want to talk to me. Then I will call them back.
          And I do think that showing up unannounced is rude now when we all have devices that let us send a note to say ‘hey, is now a good time to stop by’. It wasn’t rude when the choices were schedule ahead of time or just try going over.

          • here she goes

            that’s not at all what AIMS is talking about. SHe’s talking about the people have gotten shot from approaching a door. It’s fine to be annoyed at people for showing up without a text (this is very generational) but it’s an entirely different thing to shoot strangers who come to your door.

          • here she goes

            I re-read both comments, and I get where you’re coming from with your response better now. I’d edit my response to you if I could I think you’re normal. I agree that there isn’t a straight line between wanting a text before someone shows up and shooting a person who shows up announced; I think the pandemic + aloneness + too much fear mongering TV ties all of it together.

        • anon

          I really think pandemic isolation and technology isolation have come together in a perfect storm. I’m seeing the same thing that you are in terms of people being incredibly stressed about having to do things like call in an order instead of placing it on an app. Online community can substitute for some aspects of in-person community, but only imperfectly – and one thing you lose is interaction with people that are different than you. Interaction with people who differ from us builds societal trust; interaction only with in-group members (people who are like us) lessens our trust of those who are different. It’s not good.

        • anonshmanon

          I think it’s partially that we are more and more getting out of the habit of interacting with other people, as you describe. I also think fearmongering plays a role, and that we direct so much attention towards narratives of how our way of life is threatened every single day. The guy who shot the kid for ringing the wrong doorbell apparently lived alone, and watched conservative tv all day long. Without wanting to both-sides this, I also think the left isn’t immune to this problem.

          • Trish

            Andrew Lester’s grandson confirmed that he is an old racist conspiracy theorist. Ralph Yarl was shot because people see black teenage boys as dangerous and that doesn’t have anything to do with video games.

        • here she goes

          This explanation is smart and kind. Thanks for writing it out. I’ve been blaming it solely on conservative news whipping people up into a frenzy of rage with their 24/7 fear mongering, but I think your evaluation definitely has a lot to do with it as well.

      • Seventh Sister

        Conversely, watching that kind of thing might make people *less* inclined to resort to violence because they’ve worked out their angry feelings by watching John Wick mow down a bunch of people. Especially in American society, it’s hard to tease out why people are violent because our laws have basically devolved into “all the guns, all the time” in so many places.

      • Anonymous

        I don’t think that 84 year old in Kansas City or the 65 year old in upstate NY were influenced by videogames. There are a lot of angry white people out there.

        • Seventh Sister

          Yeah, I worry about my parents (who will hit 80 in a few years).They watch a lot of Fox News *and * local news, which is nonstop murders and car chases. If either of them slides into cognitive decline, it’s totally possible that they’d start imaging all sorts of dangerous intruders who turn out to be the postal carrier. And they live in a state where you can buy a gun very, very easily.

    • Anon

      Their lives are ruined because they killed someone’s. If they even have a shred of a conscience, this should destroy their psyches – criminal charges or not.

      Regarding friends – my kid is 3 and my biggest worry is what kind of friends he will make. Will they be the basically good kids like I hung out with – home by curfew and not prone to trouble? Or will they do dumb s—- and get someone killed?

      • Anne-on

        The biggest ways to avoid trouble I’ve seen (and heard from other parents with teens) is modeling good behavior, involving them in volunteer/service work, communicating openly about the downsides of risky behavior without judgement about the behavior itself as they/some of their friends maybe experimenting with it, meeting/knowing their friends, and making sure your home is open to kids to hang out. Unsupervised teenagers with checked out parents and too much time/money on their hands results in bad things.

      • anon_needs_a_break

        Okay but having a psyche ruined for life because a teen with a brain not yet developed made very stupid decisions is also not a moral win for anyone. “This should destroy their psyches” feels pretty gleeful – even if it does, how does that help anyone>?

    • Anon

      “Their lives are now ruined” – I prefer the active voice here. “They killed someone and ruined their own lives.”

      I hate this kind of thing and I’m sorry that you’re dealing with it in your local community. There is something so heartbreaking about pointless violence.

    • Anne-on

      I have a really hard time feeling too sorry for kids who killed someone in such a thoughtless and intentionally malicious way. And they’d already injured people by pulling this nonsense previously and continued?? I hope the family of that woman takes those kid’s families to the cleaners.
      I truly cannot imagine the callousness that made those kids think it was ok to continue with that type of behavior after people were hurt. I have a child and if I found out he was doing this type of stuff (repeatedly!!) I would come down on him like a ton of bricks on top of feeling like I’d failed as a parent.

      • Trish

        I represent children charged with violent crimes. You do not have to feel “sorry” for juvenile offenders but you must understand that they are not as culpable due to their lack of a fully mature brain and their vulnerability to peer pressure and family influences. As for the families, I doubt the kids come from any type of wealth. I wish we could focus more on prevention and rehabilitation and less on punishment.

    • anon

      Yeah, it really, really matters what friends your kids make, especially because teens are still in the process of developing their ability to make decisions and grasp consequences to others. Teens are notoriously poor at grasping the long-term impacts of their decisions, which is part of why we generally legally limit the decisions they’re allowed to make. The peer group is massively important, given all that.

      There was a story in my area of a young woman who broke up with her girlfriend and decided to end her life by driving her car into oncoming traffic. She survived and the person that she hit didn’t. She spent years in jail and changed her name when she got out. I wish that part of her sentence was to tell her story to other teens – I do think that hearing firsthand from other teens makes a difference that a lecture from adults does not.

    • Anon

      Yeah, I mean, reminding your kids not to kill people, or that killing people has consequences, isn’t something you should regularly have to do . . .

    • Anonymous

      We have a very active neighbours fb group and it’s so strange the attitudes around children. Occasionally someone posts about children throwing stones at cars, acting unsafe on the road or ringing doorbells and running away. People really
      don’t post about children in it beyond that but the responses are always ‘let kids be kids’ or around how children should be left to enjoy playing outside. I find it so odd as aside from ringing doorbells, the other things are genuine safety issues for the children and road users. I can see why you’d say that if people are complaining about children playing but it’s really never used for that.

      • Anonymous

        Apparently ringing doorbells is also now a safety issue for the person ringing the doorbell.

        • Seventh Sister

          Ringing doorbells and running away seems pretty harmless, except if you’re doing it and someone decides to shoot you for doing it. But then again, my local neighbors FB group is the sort where someone posted a video of biking with their kid to school (everyone had helmets, biked safely, blah blah, blah) and someone threated to report the parent to CPS because the kid was wearing short sleeves and might have been cold. I never post anything there anymore – someone complained about the lack of parking near a local business and got bawled out over it.

    • Anon

      This same thing happened in my hometown when I was in high school (early 90s) and it was high school age kids. One person died and the kids who were doing it threw their lives away.

    • Anon

      Unfortunately this is likely a result of teenagers not having fully developed brains and not realizing that their actions could kill somebody until its too late.

      • Anon

        Teens are mature enough to know this. A 6-year-old, maybe not. If my teen did this, I’d be beyond horrified.

        • Trish

          Teens do know right from wrong but they easily get caught up in the moment when they are with their friends. Simpy stating that they are mature enough to know that someone could get hurt will not stop future reckless behavior. Boy between the ages of 15-19 are at risk of dying or serious injury due to their own reckless actions. May I suggest that you read or listen to the Age of Opportunity by Larry Steinberg?

      • Anon

        Oh please. Teens who aren’t sociopaths know not to do this. An average second grade child would know it to do this.

        • Trish

          A leading psychologist often says it is safer to let your 13 year old stay at home alone than your 16 year old. Probably true of your second grader as well. As you know, teens are susceptable to peer pressure that often results in behavior that they know is wrong or risky.

          • anon

            This is interesting.

            And never mind college aged kids, when you add alcohol + inexperience….

            As my brother said, it is amazing he survived.

  19. Anon

    The older/more financially secure I get, the more I like Ikea, elf cosmetics, Cerave skincare, and clothes from Amazon, and anything from target. What do you still cheap out? I asked a version of this a few weeks ago

    • Anon

      Cars. It’s almost embarrassing. I just bought a used car that cost what I earn in a month and no, I’m not a high earner.

      • anon

        Well, actually that is pretty smart finances. Well done. Especially the smartest thing to do if you are not a high earner!

        There are few things that are less financially savvy than buying a new car off the lot. You should have a lot of financial security to do something like that, and have a pretty good reason – like you love it and prioritize it over vacations/retirement savings etc..

        I have plenty of $ and would never buy a new car. If I wanted something new-ish, I would be a car 1-2 years old from the dealer that is certified with a full warranty.

      • Anon

        I am at that point too. I see things on sale at Nordstrom and think “I could get that on eBay for $25.” And then I get it on eBay.

        • anon

          I wish my body shape and retail sizing was consistent enough that I could rely upon this…

    • Anon

      I appreciate that you’re acknowledging that you asked this before, but I’m confused why you are asking again. Is this some kind of market research? Are there are categories of items for which you’re hoping to find “adequate” brands? Do you feel you are still overspending in some areas?

      • Cat

        yeah I’m wondering this too. Everyone has different places where they’re satisfied with an inexpensive alternative and have ways they would rather spend an extra X dollars.

      • OP

        Should have clarified, its because I asked in an afternoon thread and several commenters suggested trying again.

    • anonshmanon

      Costco anything. Like you, Ikea, Cerave, also buying on craigslist or second hand a lot. I think with aging comes not giving a f*** about appearances of coolness or classiness, and being more secure in my preferences.

      • Senior Attorney

        I was at Costco over the weekend and remarked to my husband that Costco isn’t where people of modest means go to buy cheap stuff to save money. It’s where rich people go to get good prices on fancy expensive stuff.

    • Anon

      My husband insists on taking our trash to the city dump (for free) instead of paying a private trash service. Since he’s willing to do it, great! We also mow our own lawn.

      • Chl

        I’m so curious about this! I’ve never lived in an area where trash pick up isn’t just a standard city service!

        • anon

          It’s getting more and more expensive in my city, so I can imagine it might be worth it for some folks. You don’t pay for it?

        • Anon

          In our last town (Westchester) it was picked up twice a week, but taxes were sky-high. Now we are in a different city, on septic, and only houses on the sewer line get pickup (has to do with taxing districts). Everyone else can use the dump for free.

          They do recycling pickup, though, which is great because we generate more recycling.

    • Seventh Sister

      To my mind, IKEA gets a bad rap when a lot of it is pretty well-constructed and the materials aren’t necessarily *that* inferior to other brands. It’s also the right size for my small house. I’ve definitely gotten more into drugstore cosmetics since I pretty much know what works for my skin tone/complexion and don’t need the department store and/or Sephora expertise to buy say, a blush that makes me look alive. The older I get, the less I find some of the expensive stuff is “worth it.”

  20. Anon

    Long shot but I know a number of people on this board used to use the Biossance Squalane + Zinc SPF. I think I recommended it myself but then I developed an allergy to it, possibly they changed the formula, that landed me in a dermatologist’s office. Obviously I stopped using it.

    This week I went to a Sephora and bought an SPF serum from Rose Inc and had the same reaction. Turns out Rose Inc and Biossance are the same company. And lots of people in the Sephora reviews, which I should have checked, report the same reaction.

    The only other sunscreen I’ve ever reacted to has been the Supergoop ReSet spray spf 40, which has different SPF agents.

    If anyone has a similar reaction to these products, did you ever figure out what the exact ingredient is? I looked for commonality and they all have caprylic/capric triglyceride near the top (the only thing in common) but this is present in other skincare products I use with no issues.

    Yours in steroid cream,
    itching in Berkeley

    • Anon

      Isn’t it the zinc? I’m allergic to mineral sunscreens, which I don’t think is terribly unusual.

      • Anon

        You don’t think it’s unusual? Everything I’ve read says it’s common to be allergic to so- called chemical sunscreens and they recommend switching to zinc and/or titanium dioxide. Baby sunscreens tend to be zinc.

        • anon

          IDK, I’ve had more bad reactions with physical sunscreens than I have with the so-called chemical sunscreens. I think it’s individual, and I’d rather prioritize sun protection that works than trying to find the perfect formulation.

        • Anon

          Well, I don’t know what proportion of the population is allergic to mineral sunscreen, but it’s certainly common enough to assume that zinc is the thing you’re allergic to. I’m surprised your dermatologist didn’t suggest that. I had an allergic reaction to either the zinc or titanium oxide in a Supergoop sunscreen so I went to my doctor after a week of OTC hydrocortisone not doing anything and she basically said, “yeah, that’s definitely a thing.”

          • Anon

            The supergoop I reacted to didn’t have any physical sunscreen agents, which is why I assumed it was a base ingredient.

    • little baker mouse

      I had a reaction to the Pipette sunscreen. Amyris, Pipette’s parent company, also owns the Boissance brand. After some research, I think the culprit is this ingredient: Methyl Dihydroabietate — an ingredient that adds viscosity to the formula. It is derived from pine gum or resin, and I’m highly allergic to pollen from many species of pine trees, so I figure there must be a connection. Maybe you’re reacting to the same ingredient? My symptoms were typical of allergic dermatitis (red itchy welts that also stung), and they went away after I treated them with a combination of hydrocortisone and Benadryl.

      • Anon

        Thanks. I will check out that ingredient and see if it’s also in the supergoop.

        I really want to believe in Amyris (parent company, local to me) but apparently I can’t use any of their products. And I will not try that Pipette product!

    • ATL

      I haven’t used either of those sunscreens but I bought Sun Bum before a beach trip and hadn’t used it before, used it on the first day of my trip liberally and almost immediately developed a full body allergic reaction. It was awful and has made me ant to avoid trying any new sunscreens lol

  21. Anon

    Help me figure out court clothing (for a future attorney w/ sensory issues?) I’ve nearly finished my first year of law school and am now looking towards my summer job, where I’ll be tagging along to court a decent bit and will need to dress very formally. I’ve also got pretty bad sensory issues because I have autism. I can’t wear pants for the life of me, no matter what fabric. My usual attire is a loose cotton tshirt and workout shorts, with a sweatshirt if it’s cold (yes, even in the snow), and sneakers, because so many types of clothing bug me very badly. I’m thinking my best bet would be sheath dresses with a blazer or skirt suits – but please let me know if you have other suggestion! I’ve been trying on a decent number of sheath dresses, and a lot of times the fabric/thickness of the fabric has given me issues. For instance, even the Calvin Klein sheath dresses are really distracting and uncomfortable. I’ve absolutely loved the Lands’ End ponte sheath dress, but I’m slightly worried because it hits above the knee and goes even higher when I sit down, so I’m unsure if this is an appropriate length for court. If anyone could offer advice or recommend other comfortable, soft dresses or blazers/skirt suits out there appropriate for court, I would be so grateful! Any other guidance regarding clothing or comfortable shoes for a more formal office on days where I may not appear in court would be helpful as well. It’ll also be extremely hot where I’m working this summer, often reaching into the high 90s, so that’s a factor as well. Thank you so much in advance!!

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