Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Side-Slit Cardigan
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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
As we enter the season of overzealous air conditioning, I’m reminded of the need to have an extra layer within arm’s reach at all times. A basic cardigan that will layer nicely over any outfit is a necessity for me.
This longline sweater from Halogen is a great option at a fantastic price point. Keep it in your office for those days when you’re anxiously awaiting to step onto the 100-degree pavement to thaw out.
The sweater is $39.99-$69 at Nordstrom, depending on color, and comes in sizes XXS-XXL. A very similar Halogen sweater is available in sizes 1X-3X for $39.50-$79.
Sales of note for 5/30/25:
- Nordstrom – The Half-Yearly Sale has begun! See our full roundup here. Lots of markdowns on AGL (50%!), Weitzman, Tumi, Frank & Eileen, Zella, Natori, Cole Haan, Boss, Theory, Reiss (coats), Vince, Eileen Fisher, Spanx, and Frame (denim and silk blouses)
- Nordstrom Rack – Refurbished Dyson hairdryers down to $199-$240 (instead of $400+) + Father's Day gifts up to 60% off
- Ann Taylor – 25% off tops & sweaters + extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – Sale extended: 50-70% off everything + extra 25% off
- Boden – 1100+ sale items!
- Eloquii – $25+ select styles + extra 50% off all sale
- J.Crew – Up to extra 50% off select sale styles, and women's shorts, tees and more from $24.50
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 60% off clearance
- M.M.LaFleur – Lots of twill suiting in the sale section! Try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
- Rothy's – Up to 30% off everything
- Spanx – Free shipping on everything
- Talbots – Select summer styles marked 25-40% off
This is a longer sister of the Simone cardigan that was everywhere back in 2015? 2017? I have a plain black Nordstrom copy in thin merino and it is still handy. But it also seems to have some limits — it worked so well with skinny jeans (unbuttoned) or a pencil skirt. IDK that this longer length works with 2025’s voluminous bottoms. What are you all doing with your Simones and their clones?
yeah, I definitely pull out waist-length cardigans for the wide pants. But I still wear some slimmer pants and pencil skirts here and there.
I think they can look cute as a layer over dressy shorts and a lightweight top if you’re somewhere where dinner in the sunset starts off warm and then the night breeze is chilly.
But not wearing them with wide-legged pants. My Jackies from 15 years ago are back in rotation for that.
Circa 2017 my go-to conference outfit was one of the long Caslon linen cardigans, black skinny pants, and Rothys with an OG bag.
I love the longer line with wide leg pants – it looks fresh and chic.
I know they are controversial here, but I like a longer lightweight cardigan over wide leg cropped pants. Showing some ankle is the difference between chic and too much fabric.
Me too! That’s exactly the look I’m thinking of.
Artsy therapist vibe
I don’t still have ten year old cardigans in my closet
The advantage to buying carefully and taking care of your clothes is that they last longer and you don’t need to fill the trash streams with worn out clothing. I did a closet over haul in 2016 because I lost about 80/85 lbs at the time but I have plenty of things I bought at that time that are still in rotation, and a number of things that are waiting for a comeback style wise.
Not the flex you think it is.
+1
If you want to be an ugly dated hoarder go right ahead
Aw! It’s possible to be a perfectly ugly personality in “current” clothes.
I like these with an A line or column skirt and tee for a more casual work look.
I hadn’t touched mine in years, but recently it felt fresh over some soft silky pants, and over a narrow denim skirt.
I have a large outbuilding that would hold a model T and some bikes and tools. It’s not long for this world. It would cost a lot to build a modern garage on site. Are there good prefab buildings out there that are maybe 15×20 that some wired for electricity that would fit in with a “Dutch colonial with craftsman echoes” house from the 1920s? I just need it to be critter proof and have no indoor space for bikes and yard tools and a motorcycle.
The Amish near me sell prefab wood buildings which are really good quality and look delightful, they would complement a historic home nicely.
Watching with interest, I assume so and have a similar situation but haven’t asked my contractor.
So you need to google “fancy prefab shed”
You seem cranky today.
I have seen this type of thing at Home Depot, but I also would get a quote from a local builder. It might be less expensive than you think!
Try Costco. I’ve had consistently good experiences with the contractors they work with, which I personally would want for hooking up electrical.
I’ve seen these on Amazon and at Home Depot/Lowe’s too, but I’d want a competent electrician to do anything with wiring or permitting if needed.
We bought a pre-fab roll off shed from one of those amish roadside stores. Similar to what we see sitting outside of a lowes or home depot. We own 5 acres in a neighboring state. We use it as a bunkhouse when we go there to essentially camp and storage when we’re away from some land (storing a rough cut mower and some other bigger items). It’s kept mice and other critters out really well. Haven’t had a problem yet in 3 years. The install was really painless. We did have to pull a permit. But otherwise, they showed up with a remote control fork truck time machine to install it.
I agree with the other commentor, the more local you can find a supplier the easier. Then there is less milage to pay for.
remote control fork truck time machine Is my new band name.
I will buy all your albums
I liked RCFTTM before they sold out.
If you have Amish/Mennonite near you, they often have companies with prebuilt options like that – sheds and even garages. Very location dependent. They can connect you to someone to do site prep and wiring.
We’re working with Sheds Unlimited for something like that, and they’ve been great (and either Amish or Amish adjacent, as suggested by some other folks on the thread).
:) I have a 1909 house and a detached “carriage house,” so I feel your pain!
Unfortunately, where I live, we wouldn’t be able to rebuild it. One wall is on the property border/lot line and we’d have to replace it with something no closer than 5 feet to the lot line due to modern egress regulations.
So we would lose too much space, given that we don’t have room to move it 5+ feet on the other side without blocking access to our back door. So we are kind of stuck with it.
What we did was fix up the walls, replace the roof, and have electricity wired to it. Now it’s a storage space and workshop. It will never fit a modern car, but it’s a handy building to have!
This didn’t really answer your direct question, just giving you what we did in a similar situation.
Check out the company Design Darling used for her shed. Just be careful given the age of your property on the setbacks on your lot. My 1920s garage is outside of modern setbacks for my town and we can repair and maintain it as long as it’s up, but the second it is down we could never rebuild it. (People get around this by effectively building a shell around their current garage and then taking down from inside but it is trickier).
A few commenters yesterday said they use bar soap instead of shower gel. Would love to know what you use! Standard hotel bar soap doesn’t leave my skin feeling great. TIA and Happy Friday!
Dove
+1 I’ve used Dove since I was a teenager. It’s the only one that doesn’t leave my skin feeling dried out. I think technically I’m using the sensitive skin kind now, but I also use original. Plus a bar lasts a long time; I feel like so much liquid gets wasted
Same
Same!
Ivory. Dove is gentle but leaves me feeling covered in residue.
I like Dove because it is moisturizing. That’s the point.
I buy the Dove sensitive akin from Costco. My Dermatologist recommended it.
My derm also recommended Dove.
Lush has lots of options!
When my budget allows I go for this one: https://www.liannasoap.com/
not sponsored, just a fan – this soap makes a noticeable difference in my skin.
Oatmeal honey soap, which is like $1.99 for 2 at Trader Joe’s. But I also just don’t use soap at all on most of my body, most of the time, which is what most dermatologists recommend.
Same. I wash chlorine off with soap after I swim, and if I’ve been working in the yard or something and have visibly dirty arms and legs… but for a normal day (even post-gym) I only use soap on sweaty parts.
Dove or Ivory, whichever is on sale when I need to restock.
+1 Just “pits and bits” normally unless I’ve gotten unusually dirty or sweaty.
Same–I use a cerave facewash but otherwise use soap on my body only when obviously needed. It is not a daily thing.
I alternate between this and Dove.
This is the one I use. I live in fear of them canceling it.
FYI – oat is one of the most common contact allergens that you can become sensitive to over time. Best to avoid per my derm. He hates Aveeno because of their oat line.
I like buying different scents at Buff City Soap.
Shea Moisture
Their green one is my favorite!
Personally, I cannot stand Ivory or Dove. I do like goat milk bars from the farmers market, and trying whatever new seasonal options the local soap boutique near me is selling.
Dial white. If I’m feeling grimy (long walking days, etc.) I like the pink Lumi.
The Whole Foods 365 equivalent of Dove unscented. Also generally use soap on pits and bits and feet. And instead of shaving cream (is it bad that I use soap instead of shaving cream? So much easier not to run out of it…)
I’ve used Dove as shaving ‘cream’ for decades now – if you soap up your legs and then use a loofah it makes a nice lather and is perfect for shaving and you have one less product to pack.
Indigo Wild’s Zum soap. It’s a goats milk soap and cleans my skin thoroughly without drying it out. It doesn’t have creepy chemicals.
I use a tallow soap I get from the same farm I buy beef. I like that my skin feels soft after and it doesn’t have any added scents.
This is less environmentally friendly, don’t do this.
Can you explain what makes this environmentally less friendly? Than what?
Assuming this is a small, non-factory farm, they probably use the tallow of the cattle that are also used for beef. Is there something in the processing that makes it less environmentally friendly, or is it only because it comes from a cow?
Less environmentally friendly than what? (What do you want to happen with tallow other than make soap out of it?)
Not the person you’re replying to, but I eat it! Love to use tallow as cooking fat.
I’ve used the good-smelling stuff sold at Whole Foods, some handmade soaps made by local people, scented soaps I’ve purchased from gift shops and such, plus anything I’ve collected from hotels. I had collected a lot a long the way when I was using body wash and I am working my way through it now. It’s all been fine, really
Kiss My Face olive oil soap
Trader Joe’s Oatmeal Ginger Almond Soap for body and face. Kitsch Rice Water Shampoo Bar and Rice Water Conditioner Bar. The shampoo bar was recently a Wirecutter recommendation. I’ve tried a couple of shampoo bars prior to this that were pretty bad. I really like the Rice Water bar. It works just as well as my pricy salon shampoo. The conditioner bar works well, too. I have dry, wavy hair colored hair, about 10% gray so those are really wiry.
In case it is relevant, I can’t do bar soap with hard water. With softened water, it’s great.
I’m OP of that post and I use Dove. It’s gentle enough for my lady bits and gets the rest of me clean without drying my skin.
I’m happy to use bar soap for my hands, but for face, pits and bits absolutely not. Non-scented face balm and intimate balm. No shower gel, though, the rest of me gets no soap at all!
Caswell Massey almond soap. Lasts forever. Smells great.
Those of you who have gone from wearing a ring 24/7 to not wearing a ring, how long did it take for any indent on your finger to go away?
Just a shower/bath.
Like an hour? I wore my wedding band and engagement ring daily for 5 years but stopped because I kept scraping my baby when I nursed him, and I never really got back in the habit.
I think your rings are too small. Mine do not leave an indent.
Same. (And this is coming from someone who needs to resize her ring because any swelling during hot weather makes it feel uncomfortably tight.)
same-ish. My ring is snug, and I don’t wear it in hot weather because my fingers get puffy. But no indent for me.
Yep, my jeweler was great about not sizing too small to avoid finger muffin top.
Had mine cut off during pregnancy and the indent was still there (barely) a year later.
But normally? No indent.
I retain water easily so some days it’s lose and other days it’s tight. A few days.
Hmm, I don’t think my ring was too small, I was always able to slide it on and off easily. I took it off Monday night and there’s definitely still an indentation. In the grand scheme of things, not a big deal, but just a real bummer reminder. I hope it goes away soon!
Are you sure it’s not a tan line?
Yeah, I can feel it.
I think how much skin indents can vary a lot from day to day. I have noticed that even a wrinkle on my pillowcase indents my face if I had a salty restaurant meal.
You might just have eaten too much salt and now you’ve peed it out.
I don’t really see an indent if I relocate my ring, but I just discovered I can’t get it over the joint anymore. Now I’m going to stress out about that a little!
I never took my rings off during my 13-year marriage, and due to this – plus signficant weight gain and loss over those years – I had a significant dent in my ring finger when I removed my rings after my divorce.
After six months or so, the indent hadn’t dissipated and I was self-conscious about it. I went to my dermatologist and asked for filler to be injected into the indent. I was her first patient to ever ask for this and she took before and after pictures to show to other patients who might also be facing this issue. The procedure was completely successful and the indent never returned.
Buying yourself a pretty ring seems safer than getting fillers
I got an alert this morning for a cheap flight to Dublin in July. I would be taking my two boys, 11 and 15, but DH would have to stay home. Recommendations on hotels, things to do, etc.? I’ve never been to Ireland.
There are some great free historic walking tours that I think would be great. Ireland also has great seafood
No recent recs but that sounds AMAZING! What great ages. I’m sure you’ll have a wonderful time
I went in November. The EPIC Museum (about Irish immigration) was a neat experience, so was the Jeanie Johnston famine ship (they’re across the street from each other). The tour of the ship was probably my favorite thing I did in Dublin.
If your kids like churros (I know, Irish people are not known for churros…but it was not busy and I was hungry) there’s a fancy churro shop in Dublin, Churros do Lulu, that was good. I had them for breakfast.
I enjoyed walking around Trinity College; the museum about the Book of Kells was interesting and your kids might (??) find it interesting even if they don’t know anything about it; it’s not a stolid, boring museum exhibit. They did a really nice job.
Depending on how long you’re there, I’d try to take a day trip (even by train, doesn’t have to be a whole big tour thing!) to somewhere outside Dublin. I went to Kilkenny for a few days, which was 90 minutes by train and has a castle walking distance from the train station, but there’s tons of places you can go. You can also keep riding the same train for another little bit to Waterford, which is a delightful place to spend an afternoon! The Waterford Treasures medieval museum is cool, there was so much neat, super old stuff boys would think is awesome.
Response is in mod.
Hawk walk!!
There is a Falconry school that leads hour long hikes where you get to fly falcons. We also got to fly owls. It was amazing.
I’m planning a basic week long beach trip to ocean city. I’d like to have sufficient shade. 2 kids, 2 adults.
Which would you do: two 8ft diameter umbrellas or one 10×10 canopy? Or three umbrellas?
There are new beach rules for canopies this year, and no tents.
One canopy, since the dance of moving 4 chairs around 2 umbrella poles to stay in the shade is more annoying than setting up a canopy once!
Sounds like you’re already on this, but definitely check the rules where you’ll be set up, a lot of places don’t allow canopies anymore.
If it’s allowed, the cool cabana is the best thing ever
My 15 year old son is invited, along with about 10 other kids, to a dinner party at the home of the advisor of their youth leadership group for a STEM activity. The advisor is a man in his 60s and works in tech and volunteers with youth on the side. What is an appropriate thing for my son to bring to the dinner? Or should he just show up? I was thinking flowers but seems weird to come from a teenage boy for some reason.
Box of chocolates work well. The host can easily deal with them
+1 – a small, ideally consumable, gift is perfect. Chocolates or any other local edible item (ex. if you have a great bakery by you, something that they could enjoy for breakfast the next day) that the host can easily stash and won’t feel pressure to serve alongside dinner.
That said, a gift is a nice gesture but not required. A thank you note after the dinner from your son is equally appropriate.
I think the best thing would be a kind thank you card from your son talking about how much he appreciate this man’s help.
I do think flowers are weird in this situation. Has he mentioned anything he likes to eat or do to the kids? Maybe he brings a certain type of snack to the events and you can buy an upscale version.
But chocolate is also fine. If you have a Trader Joe’s near you they have lots of little dessert things that are packaged nicely. The dark chocolate peanut butter cups are suburb, as are the chocolate coconut covered almonds
I love to break up stereotypes for flower gifts. For example lot’s of people feel like flowers are to be gifted to women primarily. I occasionally gift flowers to men on their birthdays, and they seem to enjoy them just as much.
But all that being said, if that’s not the thing for you right now, I think a box of chocolates would be just perfect.
Ok, I guess I have a hard time receiving flowers even as a woman, lol. Unless you are spending a lot of money for a nicely arranged bouquet already in a vase, the recipient has to trim them and put them in a vase where they usually flop over and don’t look great. I prefer plants!
Yeah, even as a woman, I’m a flower hater, especially because I have untrustworthy cats that I don’t want poisoned or knocking them over and making a mess. I don’t even own a vase, so if someone showed up at a dinner party with flowers, I’d say something nice about them and appreciate the thought, but it would just be an annoying distraction and they’d either be given away or trashed. I agree with the comment below that someone hosting kids from a nonprofit probably doesn’t expect gifts and he shouldn’t bring anything.
If I were hosting a group dinner for kids via a nonprofit, I would not be expecting host gifts and would find them kind of weird.
+1. I do not think he needs to bring anything.
I wouldn’t and I’d judge who was raised right and knew how to be a polite guest.
Well, you sound like a dick, so I’d be happy to not have my kid meet you!
Kids need to learn to bring a small gift to hosted events. It’s crazy how many grown adults don’t understand this. It is rude and stingy.
Hosts need to learn not to judge literal children for random footfaults that do not matter at all. It’s crazy how many posters here don’t understand that. It is rude and egocentric.
+1
+1
Thank you card afterwards, include the advisor and their spouse. Doesn’t need to say too much, just a short note saying they had a good time and thanking them for hosting/ working with the group.
Cookies or brownies to share? All the better if he makes them, but store bought is also perfectly fine.
Nah, it’s not polite to bring food to a dinner party that’s meant to be served at the dinner party, unless the host has specifically asked.
+1 any food should be boxed (eg chocolates) and easy for the host to put away and eat later. Never show up with food meant to be served unless the party is described as a potluck.
A green plant is nice in that it can be used at home or in the office. I don’t think flowers are weird for the recipient but it might be awkward for the teenage boy to give. Snacks or sweets like cookies are also fine (good coffee). They’ll most likely be taken to the office anyway.
Oh god please don’t give me a commitment I don’t want as a “present.”
Do you host a lot? Because this attitude is just totally incongruent with gracious hospitality. If you don’t think people are picking up on it you’re likely mistaken.
Yes, and no one has ever brought me a plant! Flowers, wine, chocolates, and (of all things) nice mustards have been common.
Good manners and a big thank you. I feel like since this isn’t an adult dinner party, host gifts feel a bit strange. Just me?
No, it seems strange to me as well. I guess it matters whether this is the kind of thing I’m envisioning, which is along with the lines of “I want to have the kids in the program over for dinner” or whether it is, actually, a Dinner Party, where all the teens are being treated like adults and introduced to The Way Adults Do Things. Hopefully the nature of the invite gives OP some clues about the event’s tone.
I’m thinking of it more as a teacher gift, thanking him for his time and effort over the season. If these are paid lessons then an EOY gift is superfluous, but if it’s a volunteer role I like to gift a little something. If this is along the lines of what you’re thinking, OP, I’d have him include a little thank you note
This is sweet. Anyone gracious enough to host teenagers for a dinner at their home will be gracious with whatever you do or don’t bring! But it’s a cool opportunity to be thoughtful about how to be a good guest. I think flowers feel weird because they lean romantic to him and that’s fine. My mother always said that flowers brought to the party should be already in a vase, fwiw and I’d teach him that. Cookies or brownies, box of chocolate, and wine when he’s of age and it’s appropriate are great with the expectation that they need not be shared at dinner. Muffins for the next day are adorable. Fancy kitchen staples are chic and usually affordable. In general, I’d keep in mind it’s a small token that indicates you’re pleased to be included and appreciate the work that goes into hosting.
+1 – a set of pretty kitchen towels and a set of nice lotion/hand soap is always lovely.
Good for you for teaching your son this part of being a good guest!
I have noticed an uptick in sensory issues as I’ve gotten older. I can barely stand an underwire anymore, so I tend to wear a lot of soft bras and bralettes. However, they’re kind of awful in the warmer months because they hold moisture near my skin. I’m getting breakouts on my back and other skin issues from the fabric getting damp and never drying out. I’m in perimenopause and break a sweat rather quickly these days, ugh.
How do I fix this? Should I look for a different material? Pretty sure my current ones are nylon/spandex. Try a standard wireless style that doesn’t have as much fabric across the back? I’m a 38D, for reference.
Make sure you are getting the right size (even if it’s a size that your local stores don’t carry).
Ask yourself if bloating/GI issues are possibly a factor (was for me).
I do need to get resized. After a lifetime of being a 34B until I hit 40 (minus pregnancy), I’m struggling with this change to moderate boob life.
Definitely get sized appropriately and wash the bra after every wear. A correctly sized underwire bra is actually more comfortable to me than a soft bra or bralette as those do not keep everything where it should be and have more of a size range than a specific size. If under boob sweat is a problem, I sweat more there with a soft bra/bralette because they don’t lift my breasts away from my body enough. I use Lume body wash for any areas that get irritated and it has really made a difference. I would recommend that or something similar for your back if that is your area of concern.
First, go to the abrathatfits subreddit and use their calculator to get an updated size recommendation. The ladies on that sub can help with specific bra recommendations for your needs and size.
Sports bras? Or perhaps change into a sports bra when you get home.
Are you washing them after every wear? Breakouts mean bacteria which shouldn’t be spread by clean clothes.
Also get checked out for a yeast or fungal infection on your skin. It’s a possible culprit and much harder to treat.
Search for cotton bras.
38D is a size that makes me think you don’t know your size. Look at the abrathatfits calculator.
Agree
I mean, I used it and this is where I ended up?
It is a correct size for many women! But it’s also a size that department stores put you in because they don’t stock a 36F or whatever you actually are, so that’s why it’s worth double checking.
As a 38D a 36 band is the 9th circle of hell. Not everyone is all boob and no rib cage.
2:28, thank you. Some of the discussions on that subreddit are wild. I am … not shaped like that. I have always had a larger rib cage and small to medium boobs, even at my thinnest.
I have been trying to stuff myself into a 36D, and I think it’s time to admit that 38 is where I need to be.
I’m following with interest if anyone has suggestions that are actually flattering.
I was a 38D before pregnancy (no clue what size I’ll be after) and the only comfortable solution was a moisture wicking sports bra. Now I can’t wear my sports bras, even light compression hurts. True & Co bras are the only ones I can tolerate. They’re not moisture wicking, though, and not particularly supportive after a few wears. I have a few nursing bras that seem to handle sweat better (though not great), but they don’t have any padding over the n!pples, which I need rn (why are they always hard?? I had innies before, this was never a problem for me!).
I am the same. Post-kids I can only tolerate True and Co, though some of their styles are more supportive than others. I also have a Knix camisole that is pretty comfortable and supportive though I do not like their bras. For a real bra, I can do the Natori zone full fit (not front close)
I wear the Syrokan bras from Amazon when I travel — it feels like they dry on my body relatively quickly, and then at the end of the day I can rinse in the shower and it will dry in 24 hours.
I feel like cotton bras never dry out. I used to wear all cotton underwear but I noticed as I got older they never dried out and my skin was affected, so I switched to silk and other lightweight fabrics. I see that Tommy Jon has some bras in their Air collection, that was one of my favorites for underwear. I think the phrase you’re looking for is either “mositure wicking” or “cooling.”
Are the underwires the only part of traditional bras that cause sensory issues for you? There are a lot of wireless bras with hooked bands and adjustable straps that wouldn’t cover so much skin on your back. I like the triangle bras from Negative underwear, which have a wide, smooth elastic band and come in several different fabrics. Also, look for “spacer” fabric if you want some padding in your cups. It’s a lighter foam which circulates air better than regular contour bras.
Are you wearing a bra for more than one day before washing? Try wearing a clean bra every day and quickly showering and changing to a clean one after exercise and serious sweating.
Same issue for me, the best solution I’ve found is the Anita wireless sports bra which is less likely to make me sweaty, and using a 2% salicylic acid spray under my breasts and on my back twice a day. PanOxyl and AcneFree make the sprays and I can find them in my local supermarket.
Apropos the Miller throuple story today….My husband and I are dipping our toes into exploring the lifestyle of swingers, and we are seeing that lots of sites are travel-based parties rather than a way to find a longer-term arrangement. We are hearing about a scene around kids’ travel sports teams for example, but we are thinking it would be nice to identify a relationship connection that would be discrete and longer term. With so much out in the open about these sorts of relationships (secret lives of Mormons, etc), I’m finding it much harder to actually identify someone, harder than finding my husband to begin with!!!
This really doesn’t seem like the right place to be asking this question
+1. Big “we should all know less about each other” energy.
Almost every question/comment here is off topic, but as you can see readers do love having something juicy to judge.
Not a swinger, but you should be on Feeld :)
Feeld is definitely the place to be for this.
Maybe I’m old fashioned, but I’d be horrified to be a kid and learn that my parents were swinging during my soccer trips.
Yeah. Please decouple (pun intended) your kid’s soccer trips from potential swinger activities.
I don’t think kids have gotten any less old fashioned on this score.
Yeah i would keep this as separate from your kids as possible — swinging with their teammates’ parents or friends’ parents is going to create a huge mess!
My mother and stepfather got together via my travel sport (while both unhappily married). I am 40+ and love my parents but I still hate thinking about that whole scenario. I can’t imagine how I’d feel after discovering swinging.
I’m not old fashioned but think places involving your kids is a bad idea because of the drama involved if it goes badly. People should have the relationships their consenting partners want to have, but I’m pretty risk averse to extending those things to places like workplaces (or my kid’s activities if I had kids) because of the potential for fallout.
Youth travel sports with parents looking to swing is my new nightmare.
Seriously. DH is always lightheartedly “accusing” me of trying to swing because I’m a very happy, friendly drunk, and I’m not normally a bubbly person AT. ALL. I’m always making friends at bars, or the hotel pool/hot tub, wherever. It never occurs to me that someone might take friendliness as flirtatious! I don’t think I’m particularly touchy feely! But also DH is not the first SO who has said this to me so… shrug. I’ve always sort of chalked it up to male fantasy.
It is a true nightmare to think that other people I interact with regularly might think I’m trying to swing just because I’m a happy person after two glasses of wine!
If multiple people are telling you that’s the vibe you give off, I’d consider whether they might be right.
I don’t ever have more than one drink in front of anyone but family.
My friends laughed when I asked them if I gave off that vibe. They also chalked it up to male fantasy!
I’m really only drunkenly friendly with other women, so I think there’s some 13 year old boy wishful thinking that girls get together and have s!xy pillow fights. Sorry, boys, gushing over each others’ outfits does not mean we’re going to start making out.
This really comes off as unicorn hunting
Yup
+1
+2. I also do not think youth travel sports are the place to look, but then again, this is not something I have ever sought out.
Lots of pearl clutching going on today. Cheering you on as someone in a relationship with a boring sex life!
Not surprised about the soccer scene but agree with the others it’s probably best if it’s avoided.
Oh, nobody’s clutching their pearls Sally.
This would be me in a boring relationship with 3 people vs 2. Not sure that that is an improvement, as schedule complexity is the hill most dreams go to die on.
DH and I stumbled on a rerun house hunters episode with a throuple the other day and were fascinated. our takeaway was, good for them not for me. I have a hard enough time giving one other adult equal weight in major decision-making and day-to-day appreciation and attention. I would not want to try it with two! an ex always used to say ” you don’t pay a prostitute to have s3x with you, you pay her to go away afterward” which is callous, but captures it nicely. it makes perfect sense to me that travel-based arrangements are where it’s at in this scene.
I would like to have another adult around to help with chores and kid logistics, but that’s what paying for a household manager is for.
Nice try troll.
Yuck. None of that should be inspirational.
While I agree that you should leave the kids’ sports teams out of it, otherwise, I think this is a “good for you, not for me” moment. No other commentary necessary.
Nah. It’s not good for others or society.
I don’t understand how “society” is impacted. Sure laws and norms have monogamous couples in mind, and I guess you could make a case for public health in terms of limiting partners but… I truly do not understand why society at large should be bothered by consensual sexual relationships of adults.
The team sports question made it sound like there are kids.
Wait, you mean you think kids are participating in the swinging? as a (non-swinger) with a kid in travel sports, I assumed this is just… lots of people descend on the same hotel for a travel sports tournament. I can see how it makes the logistics very, very easy to have a casual hookup if parents are mutually into it. The kids are off doing sport/team lunch or hanging out with their teammates somewhere in the hotel. They would be none the wiser.
Kids are far more perceptive than you think. Don’t do things that could embarrass your kid when you’re traveling with them. Keep your genitals to yourself or your publicly known partner for the weekend.
I know that adults love to think that kids are none the wiser, but I also know they don’t always pull this off.
There were plenty of comments yesterday about how buying a house with a sibling could get complicated going forward.
There are plenty of ways that swinging can get complicated that affect people other than the consenting adults.
Maybe try it first before you go all out on looking for a long term relationship.
I’m r at least thing of how the auditioning would go and what the next visit to your GYn will look like.
You mean *discreet, not discrete (I am a mathematician and this is one of my pet peeves)
I have no comments on the swinger lifestyle except that a man I briefly dated was divorced after his wife left him for the man in the couple they “swung” with regularly.
The idea of there being a scene around youth sports is so gross, and yeah, I own my judgyness. Don’t drag your kids into your activities.
I have no idea about swinging (I think I’m too sheltered to know about that stuff) but the amount of cheating and subsequent marital breakups/recouplings that have happened on my kid’s travel sports team is… not small.
Someone mentioned on a prior thread they got a wider strap for their Lo and Son’s pearl. If you’re reading today, do you have a link to what you purchased? Or does anyone else have suggestions? Thanks!
Clare V has some and so does Rothy’s
That was me and I bought all of mine on Amazon or Etsy. Just search “wide strap cross body” and you will see hundreds of options in different colors and patterns. Just remember to double check length and where the hardware will hit. (One of my issues with the thinner strap that it came with – other than being thinner – is that the hardware hits right at my collarbone.)
I need to replace my carry-on suitcase and debating between a plain hard side case and a hard side case with a zippered laptop compartment. Anyone have real life experience to share? For work travel I usually also carry a bag that fits my laptop and has a luggage sleeve to plop on top of the suitcase. I don’t usually use my laptop on planes so access during flights is not an issue.
OP here, coming back to add that it would be nice to travel with just a suitcase and large handbag (no separate laptop tote) but I’m questioning whether I’d actually do that. I’m also wondering if the pocket is useful for things other than a laptop, maybe a light sweater, toiletries, flip flops, etc.
I always want room for my laptop in my tote in case I get gate checked. If that never happens to you, I agree it would be nice to skip the laptop bag. I actually don’t mind getting gate checked since the bags come quickly on the domestic routes I take for work, but it’s annoying to pull my laptop out of my roller suitcase at the gate.
Have owned multiple bags with laptop pockets, travel a lot, and I think put my laptop in my carryon a grand total of once. If you are looking to change up the luggage, I am very much team backpack for travel, and put my small purse in there.
You’re always going to need the laptop bag, right? You’re not going to stroll into the office juggling your laptop, cords, mouse, etc.
Anyone have a good budget template for a spreadsheet? We’re starting from scratch so we want to lay everything out before we move to a more maintenance-oriented solution like an app. Thanks!
I made my own and basically just googled a bunch of free examples to be reasonably confident I’d captured all categories.
What was most helpful was dumping out a year’s worth of all credit card history and grouping by vendor/category as a starting place.
How adept are you with spreadsheets? And what do you mean by budget? Tracking expenses by category? Something else?
I have a workbook that took a few years to construct (I added features over time based on what I wanted) and I recommend something like this:
(1) Start by writing down (in a spreadsheet is fine) every category of expense you have that you can think of. Also include an “other” category. Next to each category write how much you know/think you spend. Some things like housing you probably have a pretty good idea. Other things like food might be harder; just make a guess if you’re not sure. Here are some suggestions:
Housing
Childcare
Utilities (electric, gas, water)
Cell phones
Parking
Insurance
Food/household things
Restaurants
EV charging/gas
Travel
Mechanic
Health care
Charitable donations
Durable goods
Services (dry cleaning, house cleaning)
Subscriptions
Gifts
Retirement savings
College savings
Cash savings
Other
(2) Now in a different sheet in the same workbook write down every expense—where you spent money, when, how much, and which category.
You can use the second sheet to figure out how much you spend in each category over time and update your categories and estimates over time.
I’ve never used any apps (probably because it’s easier not to switch at this point) but I have to imagine you could do this set up stage in an app. Good luck!
Help me navigate something – A friend, unmarried and no family, has been in the hospital and away from work for more than a month. The reasons are a mixture of physical and mental health. Stress is a major trigger for both, so she’s not been directly in touch with her office. I have reached out to her HR, who have been largely non-responsive and have asked for nothing. Her direct supervisor, however, has reached out and keeps asking for specific medical information and questioning why he hasn’t spoken to my friend directly. Now that she is about to be released, his only request to her is “call me.” I’ve asked if they need paperwork but gotten nothing.
There is no FMLA coverage but it does not appear she’s been terminated, and she really wants to keep her job. How should she respond? I am almost certain he is going to ask her for specifics when they talk.
Unless she’s incapacitated, I think she needs to speak to her workplace herself. I can also understand HR’s reluctance to speak to a friend about a sensitive issue. As for the sensitive medical info, while I don’t think her boss needs to know that, if she were eligible for FMLA, then that info would get disclosed to HR in a doctor’s note outlining the length of leave and the way the medical issues impact work. So I’m not sure she can easily get out of disclosing anything at all.
Honestly, I can’t imagine most workplaces would be okay with an employee being out for a month without a real explanation and ongoing communication from the employee if they aren’t incapacitated. I’m sure it’s anxiety inducing for your friend, but she needs to bite the bullet.
She was incapacitated.
My job would think incapacitated = coma. Short of that, i’d be reaching out. Definitely also for STD policies and LTD also if indicated.
And when I say incapacitated, I mean incapacitated. She was sick enough to not be of sound mind to have a conversation with work. The kind of sick where they ask you if you know who the President is and you might not get it right. And heavily medicated/sedated a lot of the time.
I’m sorry for your friend, but if she is able to communicate with you she should be able to communicate with her HR department, at least enough to tell them she is too ill to come in or talk more. If she wants, she can give them your contact info and ask that they communicate through you in the meantime. But not *wanting* to talk to her workplace or being miserable in a hospital bed is not the same as being incapacitated. If they are talking release she is not incapacitated.
HR can deal with her boss. They can at least coach him on what he is allowed to ask and what is off limits. A doctor’s note is not hard to obtain; the PCP should be able to provide that quite easily, especially if HR has certain info they need included.
Right. She is NOW capable of handling this and plans to. I have tried to direct her boss to HR repeatedly, and signaled to HR that he was reaching out separately, in the hope that they would step in. Instead, they stepped out and he pursued.
For most of the time, and unpredictably, she really was not capable of calling and having a coherent conversation. When she was, the call itself would have sent her backwards in her progress. That was not only my assessment, but her doctors’.
Sounds like she was capable of a phone call
The doctors disagreed.
Is the issue that she’s not yet able to handle a phone call and doesn’t want to talk to him at all? Or is it that her boss will ask what’s going on, and she doesn’t want to give him information about the medical/mental issues, but doesn’t know how to talk with him without giving that info?
She is now able to make the call and plans to. We are concerned about what her boss is going to ask and how to respond. She needs to ask for accommodations, too. But she doesn’t have a doctor’s note at this point because no one has asked her for one at any point. Plus there have been many doctors involved. Not even sure which one would proved it, though we could probably figure that out. She actually doesn’t even know her diagnosis yet. That could come soon, but it could be a terminal illness (though we have reduced the odds on this recently) or a serious chronic illness that will still sound very scary. I think HR should be handling this, not her supervisor. I have tried to coach him, hoping he’d take that hint, and he hasn’t. So here we are.
You. A rando. Cannot coach HR
I was trying to coach HIM to hand this off to HR, which is what he should be doing and what they should be insisting that he do.
You 100000% cannot coach her boss that’s insane
If he were smarter, he would have taken a hint.
She needs to call her HR. You need to step back and let her do this (or not, that’s a choice she has to make and you can’t do it for her).
She is asking for the help. Not for me to handle it. To help her handle it.
Then sit beside her silently while SHE makes the call to HR, and give her a hug after. Don’t dump your drama on her, and don’t create even more friction with her employer than you already have.
You really are misreading both my request and the entire situation. I know that you want me to be a weirdo but I am not. Would it be better if she had simply ghosted work? Wouldn’t a family member, if there were one, have called in sick for her?
Nah, my reading comprehension is not that bad. Maybe your conveyance of the actual situation is inaccurate, but as-written you are indeed coming off as a weirdo. And yes, I think most employers would be far more accommodating and understanding if a truly incapacitated employee ghosted until they were able to reach out directly than if a unhinged rando started trying to “coach” the boss and micromanage the HR team. One contact from you stating your friend is in the hospital/incapacitated was appropriate. Your continued engagement and attempts to massage the situation is firmly in the overly-controlling realm.
By “coach” I mean I responded to his multiple phone calls stating
“I emailed HR on Monday saying she is at X hospital and there are no plans for discharge at this time. I do not have any medical details or permission to share them. I will keep HR updated.” That should be enough. But it wasn’t. Many requests for specifics followed.
OP, it doesn’t sound like you told him to stop calling you, and HR actually gave this guy your number as someone who might know what happened to his report. Have you considered how upsetting it is from his view? He sounds like he’s been frantic with worry and you have created a narrative that he should just not care and be happy with your brush off. I’m not saying you should share private info about your friend without her permission, but you handled this in a way that created a LOT of extra drama for your friend. It seems like you don’t get it that you are contributing to a stressful situation rather than smiting things over for her. I really hope for her sake that you will think through the impact your actions and words are having, and consider than maybe you aren’t a sweet innocent angel who has done no wrong here.
Who are you? Her coworker or her next of kin? Presumably since she’s better she can handle this. It’s totally normal for her boss/company to want to speak to her directly as she is not a dependent but responsible for herself. She should say she’s been ill and hospitalized and let them know when it’s anticipated she can return to work. There’s no way to know what her boss has in mind until she talks to him. Her HR will probably be more responsive to her personally also. It sounds like they knew she was out for an emergency and waited … that seems fine. If she’s too stressed to talk to them presumably she’s too stressed to go back to work, but can she at least check in and give them some sort of timeline?
She is fine to handle this herself now, I believe. And she plans to. But from my interactions with her boss, I am almost certain he is not going to ask “When will you be ready to return to work? Will you be able to handle full time? Need any accommodations? Can you bring us a note to that effect releasing you?” He is going to say “What was wrong? Where were you treated? What is your diagnosis? Are you still sick? How? What are your conditions? Medical or mental? Prognosis? Were you in a coma? Why didn’t you call me, I’ve been asking? Were you in a coma the whole time? Are you going to die? When?”
And she will need to anticipate and handle that. What other solution do you think exists?
Exactly. That is why my original question was asking for advice as to how best to “handle that.”
If the hospital has a social worker, they MIGHT be able to offer advice about what to say. Ask a Manager also fields queries like this often. MY 2 cents – I think she can say, “I appreciate your concern. I was unable to call personally before now. I’m not comfortable sharing private medical information but my doctors have said I can do x, y, and z with x and y accommodations.” And she can keep repeating “I’m not comfortable sharing the details” if he keeps pushing. And then she should loop in HR if he doesn’t back off. I realize that HR exists to protect the company and not the employee, but if her boss is that pushy, the company needs protecting – he’s in murky territory.
Thank you. What I really want is for them to handle this correctly because ultimately that serves her, too
Can you get POA?
Not now. But that was on the table for a while.
You are really kind supporting your friend during this time.
Your friend is going to have to call her boss, not you unfortunately. Could you two talk through some potential scenarios for that call? He might terminate her; he might ask for a timeline for her return, details of her illness, etc. Having some responses in her pocket will help.
You could also research resources available to her if she does get fired. Again, she’d have to reach out herself, but pulling together phone numbers and names saves her a step.
Thank you. Yes. My request was for suggestions as to what that script might look like for her, when she herself makes the call on her own behalf. I thought crowdsourcing might be more valuable than just my own ideas.
Presumably her supervisors aren’t medically trained and what they really want are reassurances that she’ll be able to return to work. “The doctors said” can be a way of framing the relevant specifics.
Right — they don’t know if she’s on a bender or even alive. It’s one thing if you call and say “Alice was in a car crash and is in the ICU” but if she has asked you to step in, that’s not what incapacitated means. Also, if you don’t have a POA, they shouldn’t talk to you, just listen to what you say.
If she really wants to keep the job, she definitely needs to make a call herself!
But I don’t think she has to get into the nitty gritty of medical details that people won’t necessarily understand anyway (or that may scare them too much, or not enough). She was unexpectedly hospitalized, she has been following medical advice, she’s still following it now, her doctors think she can get back to work on the following timeline, she appreciates everyone’s understanding, etc.
I would not invite mental health stigma unnecessarily (stress can worsen any serious illness; hospitalization itself can be really hard on mental health).
I agree with this. But I also think she should be prepared for the possibility that her workplace might request a doctor’s note.
She is fine to give a doctor’s note. They have not asked for one.He wants specifics. Those are two different things.
“ She is fine to give a doctor’s note. They have not asked for one.He wants specifics. Those are two different things.” Are you the OP of this thread? I really hate the endless “anon” comments here!
If you are OP, then HR would likely have asked for a doctor’s note as a matter of policy earlier had they heard from your friend, but haven’t only because they won’t communicate through you. Her manager is being an idiot (at best) by asking for personal medical info. But I was simply saying that she should be prepared for HR to request some medical info since that seems to be a source of anxiety for her— which is understandable given the stigma of mental health issues.
Does she want to be employed or not? With no protected leave she’s going to need to be cooperative to keep this job.
Where in this string have I indicated that she does not want to be cooperative or that she is not planning to handle this directly at this point? She could not be trusted to make a phone call even in the moments she was physically capable of it. It was unclear much of the time, when she was even awake, if she knew what day it was or when she was born. (I myself have also been septic and thought I was in another city from where I was, at home.) And while there were some good moments along the way when I would have given her a phone and told her to call to confirm she was in the hospital, I did not trust the person in the other end of the phone to not demand specifics. And I still don’t.
Literally in every single response in which you fundamentally do not seem to understand that you cannot coach this company into behaving correctly and she urgently needs to call and offer a real explanation of what is going on.
You are too close to this situation. It doesn’t matter whether you trust her HR/boss. They can demand specifics, and they can fire her if she ghosts or refuses to provide any details. You can’t prevent that, and you can’t control how they interact with her.
My workplace has actually filed restraining orders against people like you who cannot seem to understand that the employment relationship is between the employee and the company, not with some rando third party friend (who, for all HR knows, is attempting some sort of weird identity theft, stalker fantasy, or murder coverup). We have had people like you attempt this type of behavior completely unbeknownst to the employee. We have also had employees who thought it was okay to outsource their communication to a friend who went OTT like you are now, and we have had to tell those employees that unless there is a formal POA or court order, we could not communicate with said friend.
To be clear, I did not ask HR for any information, nor did I expect to receive any. I shared where she was admitted and what I understood about the expected length of her admission. I also mentioned that her boss had been reaching out directly to me and others and that I had given him the same information and not more. That is all. And I am not bothered by the fact they have not asked for a note or anything else from me. I did offer to transmit a request for any paperwork if there was anything they wanted. I didn’t expect them to ask me for anything. If I were her spouse or her kid or her mother, you wouldn’t be reacting this way. But she doesn’t have any of those. It was better than leaving them entirely in the dark, don’t you think?
I note also that they did hand over some work files to another friend unassociated with the company, which I think you might agree demonstrates how idiotic they are being.
What are you so afraid that she is going to say that you kept her from communicating because you don’t trust her and you don’t trust whomever she communicates with? You honestly sound unhinged.
I did not keep her from communicating. The doctors did.
“…while there were some good moments along the way when I would have given her a phone and told her to call to confirm she was in the hospital, I did not trust the person in the other end of the phone to not demand specifics. And I still don’t.”
Make up your mind, OP. You said you don’t have POA and getting it is not on the table now, which implies she is of sound mind and entitled to make her own decisions. You have asked for advice, and the advice is to back off and let her be an adult. Has she even asked for your specific help?
Yeaaaaa. this is messy, OP. Your retelling this story is full of inconsistencies.
And, re: doctors not letting her make a call…. just one person’s very recent experience but my MIL was having a huge mental health crisis about three weeks ago. She was taken to the ER and put in a psych hold for many days – straight up stripped naked, took all of her belongings and locked in a room for days with nothing in the room basically. They STILL let her call us when she felt ready. We left our number and then the doctors allowed her to make an outbound call on the hospital landline. I’m not buying that the docs didn’t let her make calls at all for the duration of her stay.
I think your friend was probably going through something really hard – a crisis, but had the ability to make this call at some point and didn’t, and now she has some very hard conversations to have.
The script? Exactly as described above. “I will not get in to details.” Rinse, repeat, and have a doctor’s note explaining the absence. Doctor’s tend to keep things like this very high level and use the right wording. But, my instinct is you stepped in, likely with good intentions, and made this harder than it had to be.
Yes, she has asked specifically for my help with this. She asked me to handle it for her, but I agreed to just coaching her beforehand. Was looking to crowdsource the coaching but instead got accused of stalking her workplace for sending weekly emails updates to HR as to her hospital admission status and location and offering to assist at their request but asking for nothing.
I promise I did not make anything harder. And the situation you described is not really parallel, though I am sorry you went through that.
Girl, I’m doubling down only because you are. Doctors did not prevent her from calling her employer for 30 days. They simply did not. You said it yourself, that she could have called but you stopped her.
I did not stop her from doing anything. If she was allowed to call, which was not my impression, then she chose not to. I was not present with her during work hours to have had anything to do with that.
There are three different issues here: (1) what is she legally entitled to, whether FMLA, disability, etc.; (2) what is her boss legally entitled to know (which is not much); and (3) what does she need to say or do to keep her job if that is possible, which is not the same as what her boss is entitled to know Honestly my suggestion is to help her hire an employment attorney in your jurisdiction on an emergency basis for a consult.
If that is absolutely not possible, she needs to tell her boss she was in the hospital due to a medical emergency and medicated, which made it impossible for her to speak with him. She does NOT need to provide him with medical specifics but will need to provide (and should offer to provide) documentation of her medical emergency. If he pushes for more information, she will need to make a judgment call on whether sharing that will or will not save her job. Assuming she is not terminated, she can address her need for accommodations and whether her doctors will clear her to return to work after she talks to boss.
But again – I cannot offer legal advice here and she really should talk to a lawyer! She might also want to call HR first and ask what kind of documentation they need so she can tell her boss she has been in contact with them.
I’m sorry about your friend, is wonderful she has you. Agree, especially with connecting with HR about FMLA, which will protect her job. She needs to know her rights and the FMLA contact at work.
Unfortunately there is not FMLA. But there may be other protection or their goodwill toward a previously good employee.
Thank you. I definitely appreciate the suggestion to call HR first. I think I’ll advise her do that and, in that call, to mention that boss has been reaching out to her friends asking her to call him and ask HR if she needs to call her boss or if they want to reach out to him. And then she can call boss after as needed, mentioning that she already spoke to HR. Professional advice would be helpful for sure if she can get it
No, that’s bad advice. She should not mention anything. She’s to call HR and listen to what they ask. Then she gets off the phone and considers how to respond to their requests.
She also does not get to avoid talking to her boss. Either she talks to her boss or she loses her job. There is no third option.
This. All day. Who gives a flip about him “reaching out to her friends”— that’s irrelevant now. And inaccurate. You inserted yourself as her contact person & he tried to contact you. She was not involved in any of that drama so she can ignore it and focus on the essential information — conveying her availability & needs and asking about next steps. Keep the conversation professional and work-related — not at all focused on you. You are not central to this. Please remove yourself. You sound borderline hysterical & that will not help her keep the cool head she needs here. Your imagining her workplace is incompetent and spiraling but you don’t know anything about it. Nothing. It’s not about you.
To try to get at how to have this conversation, when this happened to me and I was incapacitated my husband notified work with an estimate of how long I’d be gone though the hospital social worker offered to do so — that’s it. I think that made sense to my employer in a way that having a random friend call might not. When I was able, I emailed HR attaching a letter from the hospital stating I’d been there on certain dates. I let them know the date I’d be able to return. That was it. I did not need accommodations.
Your friend’s employer is doing the right thing by waiting to speak to her personally as others have noted. So why assume they’re going to do the wrong thing now?
Also, if you’re so sure that this needs to go through HR and not her boss —why doesn’t the employee just contact HR directly then? Presumably she could just assume contacting HR is the policy. Nothing you talked about with them really counts because you aren’t her guardian.
Also, if you’re so sure that this needs to go through HR and not her boss —why doesn’t the employee just contact HR directly then? Presumably she could just assume contacting HR is the policy. Nothing you talked about with them really counts because you aren’t her guardian.
I mean, she can pretend she didn’t get the message to call her boss & call HR
My friend doesn’t have a husband to call for her. She doesn’t have a kid or a mother or a father or an uncle or a first cousin who could make this call. I am sorry for being a rando but all she has in her life is randos. I didn’t want there to be no call at all. And I really do hope that we all have someone who will step in to help when we are not able to help ourselves. I won’t apologize for having been that person for her. It was the least I could do after a twenty+-year friendship.
The rest of your post is very helpful. I don’t think HR should be talking to me, sharing info, asking for anything. They could have said “Thank you. We’ll need to speak with her when she is well.” They could have left her a voicemail asking for documentation or permission to speak with me or her doctor. They did not. They gave my number to her boss. They let her boss hand off work files and company property to an even more rando friend. They did not tell the boss to stop reaching out to me and to her when they all know my friend is still in the hospital or at least given him parameters about what to ask. This is the reason I don’t think HR is going to handle things correctly. And the multiple requests to his sick employee and to her “rando” friends for medical details is why I don’t think boss will either. But all I was asking for was some suggestions as to how she can best deflect her boss’s inappropriate direct inquiries.
Take a look at how you worded your initial post & I’m sure you’ll understand why you got the replies you did. I genuinely think you should post again using the last sentence of your reply here to ask what you really want to know.
You have very little experience with this company — does your friend think they’ll be reasonable or not? Perhaps she best knows how to finesse her boss since she usually sees him every day.
His questions don’t seem unusual from a basic human standpoint, especially if he is someone who cares about a direct report who suddenly went MIA. Then he gets weird cynical vaguebooking responses from the person HR told him to call, and his report hasn’t contacted him to let him know she is alive. Maybe stop assuming he’s an aggressive monster and just help your friend with a script: “Boss, I had a medical emergency and am sorry I couldn’t reach out before now. The experience was traumatic and I don’t want to discuss it beyond what HR needs to know. Thanks for your concern. Will you help deflect nosy coworkers so I can return and focus on my work with minimal fuss? And can you help coordinate the accommodation I’ll need in order to contribute productively again?”
You’re contradicting yourself. You wrote above that you wanted the boss to go through HR. This could have all been avoided if you let the social worker at the hospital contact them instead of inserting yourself personally. Why would anyone accept work files on her behalf? You guys volunteered for this.
Yeah, and work files could be anything, even something as innocuous as her own timesheets. Which, how would these randos even know unless they snooped?
If my boss were in this guy’s shoes I could imagine him getting rather pushy in seeking reassurance that I was really alive and that OP wasn’t some psycho kidnapper trying to create a fake trail in hopes it would delay being found out.
They could have called the hospital to confirm They didn’t. And there was no social worker involved until the last days she was there. I asked.
How would HR know to tell him to stop contacting you, and why would they do that? You literally gave them your contact details. I think you’re lucky they didn’t file a missing persons report and send law enforcement your way.
They had the name of the hospital to confirm. That was the point of my weekly messages.
It’s obvious by your comments here that you don’t have a clear understanding of how HR departments and internal operations work, are projecting your own inconsistent ideas on this situation, and are highly defensive at being told how your abnormal behavior is contributing to your friend’s problems.
You can’t call a hospital to confirm. That’s private information they don’t disclose without the patient’s express permission (and even then they’re not going to use a phone call to disclose) — which is why it has to come from her.