ByElizabeth Hours Updated
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Thursday’s Workwear Report: Sleeveless Peplum Sweater

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This peplum sweater from Halogen would be such a versatile wardrobe piece. I like the stretchy ribbed fabric and the figure-flattering slight peplum cut. This black top would pair beautifully with a pair of white ankle pants for an easy summer business casual outfit or a gray suit for a more formal look.

The top is $59 and comes in sizes 1X–4X and XXS–XXL. The plus-size version also comes in “green sorbet,” while the regular-size version is available in those two colors as well as white, magenta, and “orange rumba.”

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Sales of note for 3/15/25:

  • Nordstrom – Spring sale, up to 50% off
  • Ann Taylor – 40% off everything + free shipping
  • Banana Republic Factory – 40% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 50% off select styles + extra 50% off sale
  • J.Crew – Extra 30% off women's styles + spring break styles on sale
  • J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything + extra 20% off 3 styles + 50% off clearance
  • M.M.LaFleur – Friends and family sale, 20% off with code; use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 40% off 1 item + 30% off everything else (includes markdowns, already 25% off)

447 Comments

  1. Just wanted to post a huge THANK YOU to everyone who shared London recs for me awhile ago. I’ve loved everything I tried from this board—tea at Sketch, dinner at Ffiona’s, various strolls and markets and walks. I haven’t been to London since I was 20 and backpacking in hostels, and it’s so nice to experience it as an adult with a few more creature comforts. It feels amazing to be traveling again—I don’t want to leave (but my wallet probably does, ha. London, take all my money!)

    THANKS again. This board is the best!!

    2. Yay for Sketch! And yay for London, always such a pleasure to be there. Have a lovely rest of your stay!

  2. Who your district and attorney general are matters. Alternatively elections have consequences.
    Per this article there are many prosecutors in red states who have vowed not to press charges on abortion. They just painted a huge political target on their back and will need monetary, word of mouth, and volunteer support, along with votes when the time comes to stay in office.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/26/blue-city-prosecutors-in-red-states-vow-not-to-press-charges-over-abortions-00042415
    Is your District Attorney on the list? I’m sure they would appreciate a donation today. Have a friend of family member in a red state, but her/their D.A. is on this list? Donate to that person today. Consider supporting one or more of these people so they can continue in office and go after actual crimes.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/26/blue-city-prosecutors-in-red-states-vow-not-to-press-charges-over-abortions-00042415
    There’s 5 from my red state alone (TX) so guess what – I’ve got donating to do.

    1. In my state these aren’t elected positions which makes our gubernatorial election that much more important. I’m getting really nervous about November.

    2. Thank you for this. It alleviates some of the concern for physicians, which I think is important in the case of ectopic pregnancies, missed miscarriages etc, which we discussed earlier. Cases like the woman in Ireland who died, the Seattleite on her babymoon in Malta in the NYTimes and the woman in the IG post by Dr. Pooja Lakshmin who had the ectopic – these are all chilling factors when doctors and advanced practice nurses (CRNAs, NPs) risk their licenses to help pregnant patients. So visiting Nashville, Raleigh or San Antonio may be a bit safer…but not too safe if the states close the loophole or prosecute. I think it’s great that blue states like California and my King County prosecutors also signed for solidarity, even though abortions won’t be illegal there. (Even Chesea Boudin – who has been recalled – signed.)

  3. Elizabeth, this Peplum sweater is so cute! Great pick! Morover, I do not even mind if it is sleeveless b/c there’s no way the s-x starved hornbags at work just can’t peep in to see my bra through my underarm when I lift my hand up to make a point in court or even reach over to hand an exhibit to the Judge, another attorney at a depo, or even a witness I am cross examining on the stand! Plus, because it flairs a bit at the waistline, almost no one will focus on my pooch, which I am working SOOOO hard to flatten this week, b/f I take off tomorrow for the Hamtons!

    I hope the rest of the hive has a great LONG weekend, tho they are predicting rain, which means I will have to remain inside with the manageing partner’s brother. Now that I am older, I know he is still interested in doieng more then ooogeling me, especially since I saw his winkie when he got locked out of his own apartement by some woman he was haveing VERY loud s-x with! No one beleives I actually had to deal with that thing, when he knocked on my apartement door all undressed a few years ago! Since I let him in naked back then, Margie thinks that I might agree to have s-x with him now that I am over 40 with no boyfreind, but I told her NO WAY, HOZE! Myrna thinks he is gross b/c he likes to ooogle her too!

  4. We bought a fixer upper 5 years ago near a college. When we bought it seemed like the area was mostly families, but in the last two years every house that has been sold has been purchased by a rental company and rented to college students. We thought we were going to be in our home long term, but now we’re questioning whether we want our kids to grow up on a street with no other young kids. The house is otherwise perfect. Would you stay or move to a more family friendly neighborhood?

    1. Give it time to see what happens. You’ll easily be able to sell it if that’s what you want to do. In my city, home of two big universities, most of the students who rent houses are graduate students, many of whom are married and starting families of their own. The universities don’t have any married-student housing anymore. The undergrads aren’t piling into a SFH like they used to 20 years ago. There are loads of student-focused apartments for them.

    2. Depends on the age of your kids. If they’re at the age where you want them to start making neighbourhood friends, for me that would create more urgency around moving.
      But also, I have an ideal of kids playing with neighbors, and community in my immediate walkable neighbourhood, so I might move to achieve that. I think your answer depends on how much you value those things vs a perfect house.

    3. Our neighborhood had kids when me moved in but families have cycled through to where there are no kids my kiss’s ages — they are going to college or in diapers; no middle schoolers to be found. Had I known how 2020 on would be, I’d have moved in 2019 because our schools shut down for a year and a half and it was so rough on them. Now that they are back to normal, it’s not ideal but they are doing much better.

      Neighborhood is otherwise ideal and will let them get jobs before they can drive and walk to a good community college when they are a bit older.

    4. Ugh, that sucks. I personally would move, but I’m a “location, location, location” person and prioritize that.

      1. I think this is where I would fall too. I do think neighborhoods can be cyclical, but if a rental company is scooping up houses in that neighborhood, it is likely to stay college student centric for a while. Is there another neighborhood nearby that has more families and less college students? What a bummer.

        1. Btw, my concern would be more about the neighborhood turning into college party houses vs. the lack of playmates for your kids. I just don’t have the desire to live surrounded by 18-24 year olds.

          1. I will say that the college students who rent near me are ridiculously respectful. Their parties are not frequent, not absurdly loud, and reliably end at 10:30PM. And they don’t litter. I hope that never changes though!

    5. I would stay. I think the idea of kids running all over the neighborhood and making friends is mostly a fantasy. You could move to a street full of kids but no one plays outside because everyone is at day care camp and travel sports.

      1. Yep. My daughter is the same age as 4 other kids are our block. They’ve played together maybe 2 or 3 times ever.

      2. Agree, that was going to be my comment. These days, that’s just not how kids interact and play in my experience. Most play dates are scheduled, since families are so busy. We literally live across the street from a child my kids’ same age and gender, and we never have impromptu play dates – that is to say, just having kids in proximity isn’t a guarantee of anything.

        If everything else – neighborhood vibe, schools, playgrounds, cleanliness is good and not suffering due to the rental homes, I say stick with it.

          1. +1. My hood is about 50-50 owner occupied/renter and you can’t tell without looking at property records which is which.

          2. I would imagine this is in reference to the housing being rented to college students.

          3. Yard maintenance.

            Source: the house down the street from us is a rental house shared by 4 or 5 twenty-somethings who are super nice and polite and quiet. But their lawn hasn’t been mowed all summer this year.
            Complete absentee landlord and no property management company that we know about. Past years, they’ve spent lawn guys once or twice a summer, but nothing this year.

      3. This is what it’s like in my neighborhood. Everything is so scheduled through park districts and programs and later school and travel sports that there isn’t as much “free play” like when I grew up. I live on a street between two parks and I’m always shocked at how they are filled with either formal groups or a kid or two and their nanny. You just don’t see many small groups doing pick-up games or riding bikes or what not. That said, school quality makes a difference. If you aren’t going to have a tax base that wants to support, that’s not ideal for long term. I also might give the neighborhood more pause than if it were just a bunch of seniors and DINKs. I’d wonder if a lot of temporary population constantly cycling by its very nature would influence the quality of “community” things around, like kids library programming, farmers markets, community dog parks, etc. Somewhere with roots might have an easier time supporting these things.

      4. I don’t totally agree with this. We’ve made a big effort and are really close with two families on our block (I have a four year old). There are three families with first graders and none of them do aftercare because the kids just rotate playing at each house. It takes work but it’s possible if it’s important to you.

      5. Agreed. We were all roving youth 25-30 years ago but I have lots of kids on my street and they are never outside.

      6. There are kids in my neighborhood that my now young adults grew up with but rarely played with. Packs of kids roving around the neighborhood is not a guaranteed thing anymore. I wouldn’t move solely for that, because what if you move into a neighborhood with a bunch of kids and your kids end up not playing with them? In my experience and just going by the commenters here, that’s more likely than not.

      7. I’ve got kids and we don’t play with neighbors (kids have activities to go to). Other families in the neighborhood play together. It really depends on the family

    6. I wouldn’t move solely because you want your kids to have playmates on your street. You and/or your kids might not click with the neighbors. We live on a street full of families and don’t socialize with any of them beyond short casual driveway conversations. We don’t really fit in because I am not a SAHM or a nurse like all the other wives on the street and we don’t have a lot of time to sit around drinking beer and shooting off fireworks every evening. There have also been a couple of scandalous affairs in the group, and we don’t want to be around that ickiness. Our daughter doesn’t really like their kids because they are loud and obnoxious.

      Our daughter has plenty of friends elsewhere in the neighborhood, but wouldn’t bike the mile or two to see them on her own until she was a teenager. She and her friends all prefer to be involved in structured activities so they have all been too busy for spontaneous hangouts since around second grade anyway. They plan their get-togethers in advance and often need parents to drive them somewhere.

      1. I agree with this. You are no guaranteed that your kids will click with the ones on the street. Add to this the fact that families are so busy with activities and their own lives, I don’t think kids play in the neighborhood the same way of yesteryear. We don’t have kids yet, but when we first moved into our house I never clicked with the neighbors because of the same reason – they were all either nurses or former nurses and I work in banking. Now 5 years later the three homes closest to me have turned over and we have an entire new set of neighbors.

        1. I’m surprised to read that this group isn’t friendly toward nurses? It’s easy to put down a women-dominated profession as less than and not intellectual, but I’d hoped this group of female professionals would be different.

      2. Oh hi, are we neighbors? LOL. We have 1 other family that we hang out with, but for the most part, we have moved to cordial relationships only. Our kids don’t really like the other kids (and vice versa), and the mom circle on my street has way too much drama (and time on their hands, tbh).

      3. Basically. There were some kids my age in my neighborhood, although it was mostly older couples (which I’d never complain about, it was literally all good in the ‘hood!), but I didn’t go out and play with them very often. Mostly because the neighborhood wasn’t very walkable, no sidewalks, no playground we could ride bikes to, and I didn’t really click with most of those kids. I did make some friends! They just lived in other neighborhoods. Closest was up the street a ways, not that hard to walk to her place after school once we were in middle school.

        Now, if you have very young kids, I kind of get wanting families of similar-aged kids in the area so you can find mom-friends, arrange playdates with the other kids, and maybe develop a network you can utilize when you need help with childcare, but it may not be as realistic now as it used to be.

    7. +1 to neighborhoods being cyclical. My parents bought in a neighborhood that they thought would have lots of kids … and it did. Just none our ages. Tons and tons of kids 5-10 years older and younger (so my younger siblings had a few neighborhood friends but I was too old). Until the summer I was 10 and the girl who ended up being my best friend of the last 20 years moved in. So, you don’t necessarily need a ton of neighborhood kids – just one or two good ones. And, you don’t know who will move in in the future.

      + the wide range meant great babysitting: the kids 5-10 years younger babysat my brothers and I and then I babysat the kids 5-10 years younger. Being surrounded by college kids could mean GREAT babysitting options.

      The community around college campuses is usually pretty great, so I would probably stay for that reason too. I remember in college the boys would shoot hoops and play with local kids (usually professors kids) and it was adorable. Plus campuses are normally near walkable towns and full of school spirit. Obviously you know your town better than us, but I’d love that environment

      Now, if these are party houses I obviously completely change my stance. At my college, off campus houses where we’re all the parties happened and so they’re loud late and I would move if that’s the case.

      1. +1 to the party concern. I lived in a house similar to a set up that OP describes in terms of a house in a location very near our college. To any families that lived near us, oh boy, 40+ year old me is sorry.

        That would be my bigger concern than other neighborhood kids etc.

    8. There might be advantages to being in a studenty neighbourhood that you wouldn’t find elsewhere – better public transport and a higher critical mass of cyclists. Certainly as your kids get into their teens you might find they can have more freedom there than if you lived somewhere you had to drive them everywhere.
      (I also wonder if this depends on the university – if there’s a strong Greek Life culture are more of the parties at frat houses and less at other students’ houses?? But I know very little about North American universities in practice so feel free to disregard)

      1. Depends a lot on the school too. The school I went to was overwhelmingly Greek (like 70%), but frats (and sports teams. And clubs.) all had their parties off campus because a year or two before I got there our school had adopted some very strict rules prohibiting on campus parties. Almost all seniors and probably 50% of juniors lived in off campus housing, so parties were just held there instead of the on campus frat houses.

        Much like the makeup of the neighborhood- this can quickly change from year to year (changes to school administration, school and local PD) so can be hard to determine.

    9. If the neighborhood is otherwise still acceptable, perhaps re-frame your view of the situation and start getting to know the college kids and scoping out some potential babysitters.

    10. I can’t tell you what to do, but I will encourage you to imagine this scenario before you start house hunting: imagine if you move to a more family-centric neighborhood, but you make some sacrifice on the way; a smaller house, or a more expensive house, or a longer commute, or something further from the city, whatever it is, but you feel good because now there will be neighborhood kids for your kids to play with, but your kid is a quirky nerd who doesn’t want to hang with the kids on the street, the other kids make fun of your kid, they make friends but they live in a different part of town. Would you still feel okay about the sacrifice? The money, time, and resources you used to move so they’d have those friends? Would you consider it a good try in theory even if it didn’t pay out the way you expected? Or would you feel like you wasted time and resources, or like your kid betrayed you for not being sufficiently social when you went out of your way for them?

  5. I am in charge of selecting next month’s book for my library book club featuring woman authors. People are busy in summer and we would like to pick a fairly easy / fast read book that also has a movie or video option (no shame if people watch the movie instead of read!) Many members e-read via Libby app or audiobook so would prefer something old/popular enough to be available. All our picks so far this year have been pretty heavy non fiction or business-focused, so I’m leaning towards a good story or fiction.

    Only ideas so far:
    The Joy Luck Club
    Eat Pray Love

    I found these via Google but haven’t read or watched either one. Thoughts? Other ideas?

    1. Both are good. I roll my eyes a little at eat pray love, but that’s more of a me problem than a book problem. (I think I also read it at a time in my life when i was searching but very broke and was a bit sassy about it.)

      I might add where’d you go, Bernadette.

        2. I adored that book, and have recommended it so many times, but the movie was SUCH a disappointment.

    2. Fried Green Tomatoes at the Whistle Stop Cafe could work. CW for the book, though. It uses language that, while not out of place for a southern author in the 80’s is out of touch today. It’s still a good story.

    3. I just read Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler this spring, highly recommend!! Originally speculative fiction back when written, but felt very relevant to todays issues.

      1. Parable of the Sower is an excellent book, but it is very bleak. Not quite a fun summer read!

          1. I love TSNotD and can read it pretty quickly, but it’s a bit of a doorstop.

      2. How about “In Her Shoes”? It was made into a movie in 2002 and stars Cameron Diaz, Toni Collette, and Shirley MacLaine.

    5. In the same vein, Under the Tuscan Sun is fun and light, has a movie (that doesn’t really have much to do with the book), and is less gag-inducing than Eat Pray Love.

    6. Eat Pray Love is the worst book I’ve ever read. It was also hugely popular 15 years ago so that pick feels really dated to me. Joy Luck Club is also very old. I’d pick something from the last few years.

      I just read Love and Ruin (2018) about Hemingway’s third wife and loved it. It’s light and easy to read but not brainless. There’s an hbo movie about the same subject (Hemingway and Gellhorn). I would say the movie is rated R though if that would be an issue. The book is more like PG13.

    8. A few ideas with recent TV/movie adaptations:
      The Flight Attendant
      Normal People or Conversations with Friends
      Dumplin (I think it’s technically YA but I enjoyed it and the movie is great)
      Little Fires Everywhere
      Where the Crawdads Sing
      11/22/63 (this is crazy long but was a fast read for me because I couldn’t put it down)

    10. Some thoughts:
      Station Eleven (not a movie but TV series)
      Any of the various Austen books, although I’m partial to Emma
      Time Traveler’s Wife (controversial I know)
      If Jennifer Weiner, what’s the one that got turned into a movie with Cameron Diaz?
      The Luminaries (TV series not movie), but it’s a brick
      In The Woods (again, TV)
      Ooooh how about The Namesake? Love that book.

      Separately on Parable of the Sower is is timely but holy trigger warnings. So much violence.

      1. The Namesake is SUCH a good movie and book! I actually saw the movie first & loved it, and then went back and read the book.

      3. Station 11 is a great book, and I also really really enjoyed the TV series. They changed just enough to make it a new story, with new things to say.
        Would not recommend the Luminaries for a book club–it’s just way, way too long, and the action doesn’t really pick up until, like, 500 pages in.
        And there aren’t TV/movie adaptations of this, but my book club LOVED Homegoing by Yaa Gsai and Circe by Madeleine Miller.

      4. In Her Shoes is the Jennifer Weiner book that was turned into a movie with Cameron Diaz. Also had Toni Collette and Shirley MacLaine

    11. Where’d you go Bernad3tt3

      Big Little Lies (miniseries), good for a summer beach read vibe

      Rebecca

      1. Jane Austen – the 90s miniseries of P&P and S&S are both fabulous. Colin firth forever!

        1. Yeah, I am on a huge Rosamund Pike kick and I *still* don’t want to watch the 2005 version because Colin Firth is Mr. Darcy forever. I can only stand Austen in movie format.

          The 1995 Sense & Sensibility is wonderful, Kate Winslet & Emma Thompson forever.

        2. Heh, I prefer Matthew in the 2005 movie to Colin F, but think Jennifer E is the better Lizzie.

      2. Rebecca! Fabulous idea. Could be really interesting to discuss the differences between the original and the Lily James/Armie Hammer movie.

          1. Yea, I was thinking more “quick read” because it’s so good. I also agree with the Wild suggestion below.

    13. Wild by Cheryl Strayed seems like it might be a good fit. I just checked on my Libby app and the audio book was readily available.

      1. If I were in your book club, I’d like this idea. As much as I love Station Eleven and Normal People, it seems like a tv series takes much longer to watch than it would to just read the book. I also liked Where’d you go Bernad3tt3, which is a pretty light read and funny.

      2. The recent, Kenneth Branagh Poirot movies are terrible in terms of having something in common with the book they’re based on, so I’d recommend the Peter Ustinov or Albert Finney movies for both those books.

    16. The novel Dietland was lots of fun (feminist anarchism), and was made into a TV series. Haven’t seen the show and think it got some negative reviews. I share the disdain for Eat Pray Love.

    18. Women in Black by Madeline St John about a group of women working in a Sydney department store in the 50s (there’s also a movie) and I Capture the Castle by Dodie Smith (who wrote 101 Dalmatians) are both books I borrowed on Libby and loved.

      It’s not light but amazing and short – Severance by Ling Ma about living through a scary pandemic, would be a super interesting discussion!!

        1. oh whoops, totally missed that requirement! My recs above – all women – were made without even considering the s3x of the author!

        2. And the author is terrible at writing women. His books fail the Bechdel test and he’s female characters are horribly two dimensional. I would enjoy his books so much more if not for that.

    20. The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society (Netflix movie but does not have one character from the book if that matters to you)
      The Hating Game
      Bridget Jones’s Diary
      How Stella Got Her Groove Back
      The Devil Wears Prada

        1. Yes, there are lots of good suggestions in this thread, but Crazy Rich Asians wins for me. It’s a fun book AND a fun movie. My runners-up would be the Agatha Christie novels.

          1. only problem is that CRA is written by a man, not a woman, for OP’s book club. otherwise it’d be my suggestion too.

        2. In the same vein as Crazy Rich Asians and by a woman is “Dial A for Aunties”. But no movie.

    22. The Weight of Water – Anita Shreve (movie is Kathryn Bigelow). Murder mystery *and* rich people behaving badly on boats, all of my interests in one sitting.

      The Secret Life of Bees – Sue Monk Kidd. I haven’t seen the movie tbh. That said, if you found The Help irritating and more than a little bit problematic, this book is in the same vein.

      Little Women – I have not seen the most recent adaptation, because the 1994 film is adaptation is completely perfect in all ways, and the book is really the best.

      Super fast read, one of my favorites, but no movie – The Inn at Lake Devine, Elinor Lipman.

    23. Movies are almost always different enough from the book that it won’t work to have a discussion where some have only watched the movie and some have only read the book. The one exception I can think of is the 1990s Pride and Prejudice miniseries, which hews very closely to the book.

      1. The Kitchen God’s Wife is my favorite Amy Tan novel, but I don’t think there is a movie.

  6. Low stakes question.

    It’s that time of year where my partner and I sit on the patio in the evenings and play cards. We often like to have something to drink and I’m looking for suggestions (either alcoholic or non) for different beverages to accompany cards.

    Either something new you’ve tried or an old favorite you just brought back. Just looking for some fun ideas – ideally not too sweet.

      2. Fever Tree makes great choices – have never been disappointed! I’m partial to white rum, lime, and diet ginger beer in summer – a “light and stormy”.

    3. Seltzer water or club soda mixed with a bit of fruit vinegar shrubs is one of my summer go-tos for a non-alcoholic drink. You can either make your own shrub or buy them online.

    4. A Bramble – gin, lemon juice, simple syrup and creme de mure (blackberry liqueur). For sitting and sipping, we usually make them in tall glasses with sparkling water.

      A French 75 – gin, lemon juice, simple syrup and sparkling wine.

    7. If sweet is okay so long as it’s low sugar, the fruit varieties of “Green Cola” sodas are fabulous for any punch or cocktail recipe that is fruity and fizzy.

      1. And now I realize this sounds like an ad. But I’ve also tried Zevia and Virgil’s since my household has to keep an eye on our A1Cs, and Green Cola is my favorite right now for sugar-reduced drinks.

        I also like the “True Lemon” line of crystalized fruit flavors (lemon, lime, grapefruit, and orange) for experimenting.

        Lately I’m fond of herby drinks with a grapefruit base, so herbs could be fine too. And having some bitters on hand can elevate something as simple as seltzer.

    8. Kombucha or water kefir is sippable and not too sweet if you find a brand that isn’t loaded down with sugar and just has a little juice in it. I get a fantastic water kefir at our local farmers’ market that tastes a lot like a shrub. For store-bought kombucha, I like Big Easy Bucha.

      A nice fruity unsweetened iced tea is refreshing when it’s really hot.

    9. Various radlers from European beer companies – eg Stiegel. Don’t get the American ones – they just have flavoring added to beer and are not a true radler.

    10. Iced tea (whether plain tea or some flavor that you like) with fancy ice cubes. You can make pretty little cubes with fruit or edible flowers in them, or just use frozen fruits themselves as ice cubes.

    11. A friend recently made me a gin & tonic with orange gin — it was so good! I love a classic G&T but this was a fun twist.

    12. Can you get Sanbitter where you are? The San Pellegrino version of a non alcoholic Aperol spritz, essentially.
      I also love elderflower cordial with soda (or with a white wine spritzer as a Hugo)

    13. My current favorites:
      -LaCroix Limoncello + orange juice over ice in a mason jar. this is so good
      -Mikes Hard Freeze drinks were fun to try. I wouldn’t drink them all the time, but were fun and summery. They are fairly sweet though. DH and I opened all four flavors one night and taste tested all of them for fun.
      -Clearly Canadian sparkling water – my grocery store started selling them again and I love the raspberry
      -In honor of strawberries being in season where I am, strawberry margarita with some fresh strawberries in there and a salt/lime juice rim.

    14. my first comment disappeared….so if this shows up twice, that’s why

      -lacroix limoncillo and orange juice over ice in a mason jar
      -the mikes hard freeze drinks are fun and summery, although very sweet and I wouldn’t drink them all the time. DH and I had fun opening all the flavors and taste testing them
      -Clearly Canadian sparkling water, my fav is the raspberry. my grocery store started selling them again and nostalgia drives me to buy them every shopping trip

    15. Iced tea vodka over ice with a lemon wedge–dangerous! Ginger beer/moscow mule. Aperol spritz! Campari & soda. G&T with really nice tonic; different gins give really different results. I second the poster below about orange gin–that is drink it from a glass good. I also like vodka tonics. Vodka cranberry is my iconic summer drink of choice, with a wedge of lime. Rose! Cranberry lime polar seltzer with just a tablespoon or two of cranberry juice for more flavor. I love Bubly brand seltzers, which are plentiful near me.

      1. I saw a TikTok where someone sliced up jalapeños and steeped them overnight in a bottle of Simply Limeade. Base for all kinds of cocktails

    17. Gimlet – 2 oz gin, 3/4 oz lime juice, 3/4 oz simple syrup. Sometimes I’ll muddle cucumber with the juice and syrup to add a different flavor.
      Classic Daquiri – 2 oz rum (a white rum like Real McCoy is good), 3/4 oz lime juice, 1/2 oz simple syrup. I made a strawberry version by muddling the berries with the juice and syrup.

      In either of the drinks, you can adjust the amount of syrup to your level of sweetness. Combine all ingredients in a tin with ice and shake. Strain into a coupe glass.

    18. For non-alcoholic, a can of mango flavor Bubly seltzer with a splash of Ocean Spray cran-mango.

    19. Get yourself a sampler pack of cocktail bitters. Fruity are a good starter option. They make everything more interesting! Plain soda water with a few dashes of bitters is a go to of mine. Lemon bitters with smashed blueberries and mint for example is delicious with or without alcohol added. I think cocktail bitters are one of the most slept on options for spicing up drinks – for the cost of one bottle of alcohol you can get a sampler of like 5 variations of cocktail bitters and have all kinds of options.

      1. I love this idea and love the bitters I currently have. Do you have a sampler you recommend?

        1. Scrappy’s and Strongwater both make variety packs that are pretty easy to track down (including on the river site if you don’t have a good liquor store near you)

        2. Not the poster, but I like the ones from Scrappy’s Bitters. Tiny bottles but you only need a few drops. I think they have a few different assortments.

    22. I have been enjoying ranch water. Highball glass, ice, shot of blanco tequila, juice of half a life, fill with Topo Cico. I usually top it with whatever fresh herb I have in the fridge. It’s very refreshing and not heavy. The right tequila with the seltzer gives a nice mineral flavor.

    24. My husband loves Aperol in the summer but I don’t…except this Aperol cosmopolitan. It has a lot of lime juice but the sweetness of the Contreau offsets the bitter Aperol. And it’s a pretty pink.

      1 oz good quality vodka
      1 oz Aperol
      1/2 oz Contreau
      1-1/2 oz freshly squeezed lime juice
      Orange wheel or zest for garnish
      Shaken with ice. Serve strained.

  7. Any recommendations for veterinarians who are good with cats in the South Jersey area (Haddonfield/Cherry Hill/Moorestown/Marlton etc.)? TIA!

    1. The Cat Clinic at Cherry Hill is on Haddonfield Road. We’ve gone to them for about 8 years now and no complaints.

  8. Does anyone know if Talbots takes returns of unworn, new with tags merchandise after 60 days? maybe for merchandise credit?

    1. Talbots refused to take mine after 60 days this week in store…even though it was ONE day late and the store closed early unexpectedly the night before. I even had a photo of the notice on the door but they were witchy and didn’t budge. They did give me store credit because I complained. Also said if I mailed it to the Returns department, they might make an exception.

      Will be shopping less at Talbots. Good luck.

  9. Tea drinking hive, please help me! I would like a big tea pot that pours well. I would like to offer my visitors (or myself) tea and not look at a sad mismatched mug or the tiny, cute, and totally inefficient pot I have. Any favorites?

    1. How big is big? Are you looking for an electric kettle to pour water into mugs with a tea bag, or are you looking to brew in the pot?

      1. Teapot for brewing. I have an induction range and it boils water SO FAST. I don’t want to give that up.

        1. I agree with both prior recommendations – an electric gooseneck kettle and a Brown Betty.

          A third thing you can look into is a tea warmer for your Brown Betty. It’s a ceramic stand that holds a tea candle (probably why they’re named that!) and keeps the teapot just a little bit warm. I call mine a stövchen but I think that might not be what they’re called in English.

    5. Zojirushi insulated carafe. Pour in the boiling water, 1 liter and two bags. When it’s ready you can just pluck out the bags before pouring (they float). Keeps the tea piping hot.

  10. How do you all style full midi-length skirts (whether as skirts or the skirt part of dresses)? I feel like I am doing this all wrong. I watched The Sound of Music and just felt that on me, full longer skirts with flat or flat-ish shoes just read mumsy / Fraulein Maria. My eye thinks that it’s not looking good and yet I am a loss for what to do to make it look better (to my eye, Baroness Schrader is “better”). Pls. share any advice / guidance. I’m 5-4, if that matters.

    1. I wear very fitted scoop neck tops with interesting necklaces, and flats as well.
      It makes me feel pretty to expose some skin as a balance to the skirt.

    2. I’m 5’3” and just never wear skirts that hit below the knee. A slim fitting maxi skirt can work, but rarely seems appropriate for any event or activity in my actual life. Midis just look ridiculous on me. I have nice legs, I might as well show them.

      1. Reading the other responses makes me realize why this look doesn’t work on me- I’m very large busted and short torsoed, so pairing a fitted top with a skirt makes me all boobs. I need something a little longer and looser, but then I’m just wearing a sack when combined with a longer full skirt.

        1. I commented below that I do a fitted top, and I have this same body type short torso and very busty. It is a look that does accentuate the boobs, but I think it looks good overall!

          1. Yeah, on me it doesn’t accentuate, it really is just all boob. Tight tops can work with lower rise pants or in an empire waist dress, but skirts just seem to hit at exactly the wrong spot.

        2. I’m not short but full busted with a short torso, and full skirts or anything gathered at the waist in general looks terrible on me. I really look best in a sheath silhouette; even A line skirts are tough. I am also somewhat “rectangle” shaped despite the bust – waist is not super well-defined.

    3. I think wearing a body suit under midi-length skirts also helps them read more modern. Old Navy has a lot of options for body suits right now.

      1. You might be onto something. Any hint of a heel tends to elevate a look (or, in winter, the right boot, which I never seem to have but have seen others do well). Like Espadrilles maybe?

    6. I can never get the shirt right (and don’t love tight tees on myself) so I tend to wear that length as part of a dress, with the ubiquitous white sneakers and denim or leather jacket. For a smarter look I will wear ballet flats (I know they’re dated but they’re comfortable) and a short-ish fitted blazer (hence my struggle to look for one)

    7. Similar figure and I only wear midi dresses for this reason – like Nap Dresses. It retains an overall longer line than breaking up the outfit at the waist.

    8. Check out the movie “Strictly Ballroom” as Fran has her glow-up for how it can morph from frumpy to better. Agree with all who said to choose something very fitted on top. The look can read “dance rehearsal” in general, but I’m good with that. I find midi length skirts the most comfortable and versatile, so stylish or not, it’s what I prefer. In my day to day, I usually wear flats, but will be the first to admit that a small heel looks nicer.

      1. You just put your finger on why I cannot with the fitted tops and midi skirts. It looks like a leotard and character skirt. Not wearing that outside of class.

    9. I don’t like fitted tops in the summer so I tend to do dresses with GG sneakers (hey have an internal wedge that makes them worth the price, IMHO and helps with the issue you’re describing), I also pair with slides and that looks better. In the winter, I’ll do a midi skirt with a sweater (not oversized) and boots w some kind of heel, depending on what’s in style that year. Lately more lugg sole styles.

    10. Tight tops look awful on me. With midi skirts, I wear a v-neck t-shirt tied at the waist and fashion sneakers or flip-flops. With midi dresses, I wear puffy braided sandals with a block heel and square toe or espadrille wedges.

    11. I wear them with either a fitted bodysuit, a tucked in and bloused a bit slim cut button down, or a cami that’s tucked in. With the button down, I like to wear a belt too—feels very 40s shirtwaist.

      Shoe wise, I wear low block heels, flat sandals, low pointy toed wedge espadrilles or higher wedges. I think it depends on your proportions and the skirt length—I have a midi that’s a bit longer than knee length but not true midi that feels fine with flats but a mid-calf midi needs some sort of heel.

    12. Today I am wearing a rainbow-striped fullish chiffon midi with a bright white tee tucked in, bright white sneakers, and rainbow-stripe earrings (last day of Pride Month, so). I don’t think I look mumsy, but I am Team Maria vs Team Baroness Elsa so make what you will of that. (I’m 5’2″ and busty.)

  11. Context: grew up in large family in NE with one skilled trades working parent, was considered poor and in high school was made fun of for not having the “right” = expensive/branded clothes etc.
    Fast forward, earn substantive salary, house, paid most of all kids college, yada yada. Currently dating someone who grew up with a silver spoon~ private schools, ivy college, high $$$ job. Ps, he adores me…..and I am struggling with shame around impoverished background. I know it is a me problem, yet cannot shake it. Help!

    1. I think this is just a life long struggle! I’d try positive affirmations for sure. And maybe explore it in therapy a bit.

    2. I’m from poor country folk in the SEUS, but I feel that we’re regarded as solid and authentic salt-of-the-earth people who can pull your Tesla out of a ditch with our giant trucks (kidding, a bit). Country music celebrates us. Dolly Parton celebrates us. There is no shame in humble upbringings. And for fancy, read some of what Ann Richards used to say about George Bush (born with a silver foot in his mouth). And with being in a skilled trade, at least your parent didn’t waste $$$ going to school for a poetry degree and is the sort of useful person I’d pick for my survival crew on a deserted island.

    3. Not as big a disparity, but I am from a similarly “poor” family (went to college on Pell grants and scholarships) and my husband grew up wealthy. We are comfortable but not nearly as rich as his parents, and our different perspectives make this very challenging. He thinks we are poor and doesn’t want to spend any money until we have enough to retire and pay for kids’ college in the bank, even though retirement is decades away. He insists on cheaping out on things in the moment in a way that is going to cost us big-time down the road. I, on the other hand, agree with our financial planner that we are doing great and should be enjoying ourselves a little and making smart investments in our home, etc. It’s absolutely infuriating, the primary source of conflict in our marriage, and a huge drain on our quality of life.

      YMMV since it looks like your partner still has a ton of $$$$.

    4. The older I get, the more I realize that silver spoons come with silver spoon problems, which are often be some truly messed up stuff going beyond not having the right clothes and covered up by lawyers, psychologists and having the right clothes. What I mean by that is don’t assume that his background or childhood is perfect or better than yours – it might be, or there might be some stuff that he is likewise struggling with. Give yourself permission to acknowledge the hardship but also celebrate the good stuff. And, give yourself permission to remember that you are a grown adult now, not the teenager without the right clothes any more.

    5. Agree. I don’t get the shame at all. I think your story is a classic American story! Hard working parents raise educated kids who are successful adults. Lots of “rich” families have f’d up kids who don’t know how to work, have addictions or bad attitudes (some of these kids turn out fine too-it’s just to say, there is nothing inherently “better” about kids who start off on third base and then make it to home plate!)

    6. No shame needed. You have perseverance, life experience, and probably a deep appreciation for where you ended up. I say, embrace your background.

    7. I suggest telling your story with details and anecdotes to people you trust, and/or in writing, emphasizing all the strengths you learned along the way: perseverance, hard work, shaking off bullying as best you could. And remember that at the end of the day, rich people/privileged people, have health problems, worry about their children, struggle with anxiety or depression. Living life is mostly inside one’s head, rich or poor, and the exterior trappings don’t take away form the joy or the difficulties that are inside a person’s head. This shame is inside your head–job #1 is to process your way out of it, and celebrate who you are. hugs to you.

    8. I would do some reading on being blue collar in an UMC world. It really helped me both at work and in dealing with my in laws. We tend to have different sets of values and understanding that was really helpful.

        2. I love Sarah Smarsh’s writing – her essay Poor Teeth is a classic, and her book Heartland is really good.

    9. Possible mental hack -remind yourself that the silver spoon is actually the odd background.

      You could try to reframe the silver spoon background as «oh yeah, how eccentric». Just like you might do if his family were obsessed with aliens or cross-stitch, it’s just their eccentric ways and it doesn’t reflect on you either way.

    10. There’s no shame or glory in either of your backgrounds, they just make you who you are today.

    11. I have a little bit of a reverse of your problem. Grew up with a physician dad and professional mom, and never really had to worry about money. But, was self-conscious about it, as I went to public schools with many kids that had less resources than me – didn’t want to be labeled as the “rich kid,” so hid some of the details about my life.
      Now, I’m engaged to a man who grew up with less, and sometimes I’m self-conscious about how I didn’t have to work nearly as hard to have things as a kid, had my college paid for, have a safety net, etc., but I realize that none of that was in my control, and the best thing I can do is be grateful for what I have/had. I SO appreciate my dude’s work ethic and appreciation for the things we have together, and so in the end we each bring different things to the table. I’m sure your guy feels similarly about you. :)

    12. All things being equal, more money is better.

      I think there’s this very American idea that the working poor are morally superior to the rich. Paradoxically, there’s also a very American idea that poverty is the result of one’s weak morals.

      Neither of these things are true.

      I grew up very middle class and was mistreated by other kids with a similar economic backgrounds. As circumstance would have it I now send my kid to school with a lot of extremely wealthy people. If they’re looking down on me for money, so be it. I’ve been looked down on for things I take far more personally. The strange thing is they are mostly nice, and their families are no more or less messed up than those of the people I grew up with.

      But all in all? Be around and be with kind people who love you and whom you also adore. Life will be easier if those folks are rich than if they’re poor.

    13. I know we always seem to default to this around here, but honestly this is the kind of thing that some therapy could be super helpful to deal with. You’ve gotten great suggestions about re-framing the issue and a good therapist can help you actually put those suggestions into practice.

      1. This makes sense, except it can take a little extra work to find the right therapist. If the therapist is coming into their work with an unexamined professional/middle class background (it’s fairly common statistically for therapists to have that background, and a lot of patients who can afford to see them are in that world as well), they may be clueless about blue collar heritage in a way that can be an obstacle.

        But this a recognized issue, so some therapists have really worked on it, and of course there are therapists out there from different backgrounds themselves. So I still think therapy is a good idea.

        I’ve noticed that having other couples friends who have mixed background marriages also helps.

    14. Thank you all so much~ all of the advice/ perspectives have helped immensely. Big love to you all!

  12. Just wanted to say, per yesterday afternoon’s discussion, people sometimes think I’m mean here. I disagree, but I’m also going to try to be nicer because I like this community and want all of us to feel welcome here.

    1. I feel the same way. It’s easy to be quippy or “tell it like it is” online in a way that isn’t very kind. I think in my thirties I’ve realized more and more that it’s generally better to be kind than to be right or “win” an argument. The other reality is that even if I am factually right, am I trying to just Be Right About This Thing, or am I trying to actually get the other person to consider my ideas?

    2. SAME. It’s easy to be tart and clever but more clever tartness is the last thing this world needs right now.

    5. Thank you.

      Writing, especially anonymously to strangers, lacks tone. Sure, this is obvious! But as someone with RNF (resting nice face), soft voice (in America, have an English accent), and naturally shy temperament, I use words that balance everything out – clear, direct, devoid of verbal softeners (“just my opinion” etc). If I write the way I speak, I sound like the biggest psycho b— on the planet.

  13. Is anyone still wearing skinny jeans? I’m just wondering if it’s time to donate (maybe no poor person wants them, either) or there is some way to style 2018 jeans in a 2022 manner? I’m not sure where to go to figure this out — my city is full of leggings + crop tops right now (makes no sense to me — humidity is something like 90% this week).

    1. I am keeping a couple pairs of skinny jeans to wear under mid-calf boots and snow boots. Perhaps this is a dated look, but I love these boots.

      Light-wash and white skinnies look less dated than darker ones.

    2. I’d keep them. I still have a couple of pairs and they’re useful for weekends. Not the height of fashion at the moment, but I see all denim styles now and sometimes you don’t need a bunch of fabric dragging around.

    3. I’m still wearing skinny jeans – as a plus size woman, it’s still the most flattering cut on my body, so I’m sticking with it. But its summer so I’m not wearing them much – too hot!

      2. Same. My thighs are a lot larger than my ankles so my “skinny” jeans aren’t tight all the way down to the ankle. I think they look fine. I did cut the hems off and let the ends fray a bit, so they’re above ankle length and not having the hem makes them a bit looser still at the ends.

    4. Wear them with a crop top? I mean, they’re basically leggings, and the whole idea that you would cover your butt when wearing super tight pants seems to have gone out the window. Girls where I live (and yes, I mean girls, the under 21 set especially) are basically going around in bra and spanx combos at this point.

      1. Amusing you say that because my neighbor’s daughter is a HS senior and was just frolicking out front in a crop top/bra and bootie shorts haha

    5. Honestly I do. (I know, que the horror from this board!). I try to not wear the ones that look painted on at least. I also do all high waist and more crop like/shorter tops than big floaty tops over them to at least try to be a little current. I have non skinny jeans and I clearly just need to find my spirit animal there but IMO they make me look bigger than I am and that’s a pretty hard thing to willingly sign up for in the name of fashion. I could try flares but those were so popular in my 20s and then SO over that it’s just taking me a minute to get there, if ever. And the length/footwear aspect was then and still is annoying with those.

    6. Keeping some not super skinny but still skinny for seattle winters. I remember boot cut jeans and them getting wet all up your heel and back of the leg and nobody needs that all winter long here.

    7. I still wear mine and I see plenty of them around. That said, I am in the Midwest and fashion moves much slower here.

      1. Ditto. North Northeast and any style of anything goes. No one cares at all what you’re wearing. It’s a fashion free-for-all and it’s great! I dress in what flatters my body type and what I like, not what the fashion industry deems ‘trendy’.

    8. Everyone who buys clothing from a thrift store isn’t poor…..

      I’m keeping my black skinny jeans; I like them with booties and to tuck into LL Bean boots in the winter.

      1. +1 I make 6 figures and only shop secondhand/thrift, mostly from ThredUp. Why waste $100+ on new designer jeans when I can get lightly used ones for $20-40? No brainer.

        1. Any tips for navigating Jean buying on Thredup? I’ve had good luck with tops and dresses but not pants. It’s so hard to see the cut

    9. Skinny jeans look good on me. Wider leg jeans make me look like I’m swimming in pants a few sizes too big. I will be holding on to my skinny jeans forever!

    10. I just did this. I kept two pairs (a white pair & a black pair), for under boots in the winter (in Boston, so need to tuck these in to avoid the gross hems), but otherwise, donate.

    11. I’m more into following trends so I’m not wearing them when I go out in the evening. But I wear them on casual days because darn it I paid good money for them!

    12. The ones that are really painted on are done being stylish, but I always end up needing around-the-house jeans that I don’t baby in the wash anymore – so those would get demoted to that use for me.

    13. I will keep a few pairs around. They are still useful when the weather is terrible and I don’t want my hems dragging in the ice and snow. At least in my area, I am still seeing a LOT of skinny jeans, so I don’t think they’re a terrible fashion crime, lol. I’m actually trying to figure out what I want to buy to replace jeans in general. It’s such a pain to find a pair that fits my body correctly and feels good, and sometimes I wonder if I just want to be mostly done with jeans.

    14. I kept mine because they fit perfectly and look great and I hate the waste of ditching stuff for “trends”, but they’re strictly workwear at this point and I wear relaxed jeans or flares or overalls out at night/on the weekends.

    15. Super skinnies like jeggings, no. Slimmer at the ankle, kind of a Audrey Hepburn ciga-r-ette pant vibe, yes.

    16. I still wear them to the office. Outside of work I wear baggier straight leg jeans, but I think they only look good with crop tops/fitted bodysuits which obvi I’m not going to wear to work.

    18. Yes, although I look for skinny jeans with a straighter cut at the ankle instead of super tight (but not straight cut, which are different). They look better on me than any other cut of jeans and Seattle is not known for being a fashion mecca. I frequently wear them during winter with a quarter zip and a puffy vest. I am the stereotypical Seattleite who looks like I could go on a hike.

  14. Camping friends — can you help me out? What is a Mountain House (or similar) meal that is 1) soy free and 2) tree nut free? I think that soy may sneak into everything these days, especially in ultra-processed food. I have a kid who has these two allergies and at camp, the options in the vegetarian line are usually what she is directed to (but can include peanut butter) but lately included a meal of just French Fries. Kid would be allowed to use a jet boil at these camps supervised by the adult scout leaders, so packing some wouldn’t be a problem as an emergency option (and they won’t go bad for decades). ALSO, if you have other recommendations (granola bars?), let me know.

    1. Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts? If Girl Scouts, is the camp or camping trip run by the troop, service unit, or council? A council camp should have reasonable veggie and allergy-free options; if not, you need to raise the issue with camp management. Service unit and troop camps are much less organized and more likely to have these problems, so you will need to go over the menu with the person who is planning the food to ensure that safe options are available. I would not send her with her own food because most kids will just eat the french fries instead of insisting on cooking their own food, and if she does cook her own food she’ll be labeled a weirdo. Also you are going to inconvenience the adults in charge much more by sending her separate food than by working with them to plan safe variations on the group meal ahead of time.

      My understanding is that with Boy Scouts the kids are supposed to be planning and cooking their own food as a group and adult guidance can be less than optimal. If this is the case, you need to talk to the troop leader to ensure adequate supervision for meal planning and preparation.

    2. As a Girl Scout parent volunteer I would roll my eyes so hard if a mom tried to send backpacking meals for her kid to cook. Just talk to the troop leader and make sure there’s more for her to eat than french fries.

    3. Can he eat things that don’t contain these ingredients but are “Processed in a facility that also processes…” or must they be absolutely soy/tree nut free?

  15. anon for this: I’m leaving my job in a few months and my boss is requiring me to let someone go on my way out. Now, I have pushed to fire this person for a year (they report to me) because they are NOT a fit and are quite frankly a pain in the ass interpersonally to boot, but I did not have boss’s support. But now that I am leaving I think he realizes he doesn’t want to deal with the problem.

    This feels messy and like I am set up to be the bad guy. There is of course context and other ripple effects, but i feel stuck (I fear a bit they could hold my exit package over my head if I don’t do this). The person I need to let go has implied to me they are litigious (including sharing legal threats to others his lawyer wife has made on his behalf) and I am wanting to protect the small org but also myself (though notably when we let someone go it is with a package and you sign away rights to sue).

    Am I right to be alarmed? Or is this no big deal and just part of the job?

    2. I think it’s just part of the job. Do you have an HR person? Ideally you should have a short script that relays the information and then (90%) focuses on how last checks and health insurance will be handled. Less said the better.

    3. I think you are right to be annoyed that they obviously agreed about this being a problem employee, but as long as you were shielding the org from the effects, they didn’t bother to act. Unfortunately, handling it this way also makes sense from a business perspective, so you just deal with it and move on. Protecting the org is no longer your concern, though.

    4. Can you get a script from HR and have someone join you for the meeting (so you have backup if this person later misrepresents what happened)? And if this person will lose access to tech and be walked out immediately, can your HR or operations person execute those steps?

      1. Seconding the suggestion to insist on an HR person being present. Frankly the company should want this too. It seems like really bad business to have an outgoing employee in charge of terminating someone, what if you said something you weren’t supposed to?

  16. For anyone who has decided to have kids (or to remain child-free by choice) in recent years, could you talk about what contributed to your decision? And, do you ever have moments of regret? My husband and I are early 30s, and both said we wanted kids when we started dating. With everything going in on the US (extreme polarization and gerrymandering, Roe overturned) and the world (climate change, pandemic, Ukraine) we’ve felt less and less confident about bringing a child into the world. I want to be a mother, but I’m scared that I would be signing them up to a life that is worse than mine. I’d really like to hear others’ perspectives on this – and if you were similarly on the fence, what helped you get off of it?

    1. Health issues that would have meant pursuing fertility treatments contributed to the decision to remain child free. I do have moments of regret and don’t try to avoid pregnancy so technically could be surprised at any time (but it’s been many years so odds are low). But I clearly don’t want to have children enough to fight medically for it.

      I have never worried about whether a child’s life would be worse than mine. It’s hard to wrap my mind around how much better my life has been than my grandparents or great-grandparents, or even my mom, and their lives were all very worth living.

    3. State of the world had nothing to do with it. More – huh, both of us originally assumed we’d want kids “someday” but never actually felt a huge drive to have them! So we didn’t. Life as married DINKs is pretty great.

    4. Ezra Klein had an excellent opinion piece in this in The NY Times a few weeks ago. We’ve decided not to have kids because we’ve never had a really strong desire to have them and I have a chronic illness that would make parenting really hard and not very fair to a potential child. But as seriously as I take climate change and everything else, I think it’s an absurd reason not to have a child if you want one and that Ezra Klein piece articulates my feelings about that really well. If you just don’t want kids, that’s okay. You don’t have to justify it with some philosophy that the world is falling apart. Maybe don’t have 10 kids, and do your best to raise the type of kids that will help make world a better place, but that’s the only way anything will ever get better. A world where everyone is too depressed to have kids is a hopeless world.

    5. Currently pregnant with my first after fretting for years about whether it was ethical to have a child in this day and age. What solidified wanting children for me was spending time with the young children in my family. They are so happy to be alive, they default to joy everyday. Their lives will likely be very different than mine when they become adults, the economy will likely look very different and so will the climate. But they can still have happy, fulfilling lives. If you look at the scope of human history, 99% of the time people suffered much much much more than we ever will or the generations after us likely will, and yet happiness still existed and the next generation ensued. Their lives will be different, but that doesn’t have to mean worse- it’s all about what you prioritize in life.

      1. I love this answer because I took the same approach and came out with the opposite result. I love spending limited time with niblings and kids of close friends. I am happy to babysit them for a while and give my relatives or friends a break, and I will always happily snuggle da cute babey. But I am also 100% content to hand them back and go back to DINK life. Just goes to show that you need to trust your gut and pick what is right for you.

    6. I am currently child-free and think I want to remain that way, but haven’t closed the door on the idea yet. Since I’m in my early thirties I’ve been thinking about this a lot, and here are a couple things I read about both sides of the issue:
      – Motherhood by Sheila Heti (about deciding whether you want kids, spoiler, she ultimately chose not to)
      – Ezra Klein had a column in The NY Times recently called “your kids aren’t doomed” which is pro- having kids despite the state of the world
      – Beautiful World, Where Are You by Sally Rooney (fiction) is not explicitly about having children but talks a lot about the existential questions about the ethics of living in a first world country and there’s a section on children (comes out mostly pro-having kids)

    7. 48 now, no regrets, never wanted kids. Met my husband later in life and he never wanted them either. For me, I was more interested in living what I viewed as an “adult” life (that will probably annoy people) rather than a repeat of childhood where I was recast as mom instead of kid. I didn’t like being a kid so the lifestyle held no appeal. I’ve very much enjoyed the freedom to live as I choose – I’ve had big career phases, lean out phases, and a lot of experiences I wouldn’t trade for anything. Married DINK life is also pretty rad as Cat noted. The state of the world didn’t cross my mind at the time I made my decision, but it would absolutely factor in today. Other factors that made my decision easy, I come from a very large and close family so there’s lots of little people in my life to whom I’m the “cool aunt” so that also likely contributes to not having regrets. There’s another generation I can influence (in a different way though than as a parent).

    8. I never met a partner I wanted to have children with or who would have pulled his weight as a father. For many years, I worked two jobs and barely made enough to support myself. I don’t have a village or family to share the load. I remember how awful the middle school years were and wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy. For all these reasons, kids simply weren’t in the cards.

      1. Yeah I would not send a child to middle school unless it was absolutely nothing like school was when I was a kid.

        1. While I’m sure people still have crappy experiences in middle school, my eldest had things I never had, such as: (1) friends, (2) the ability to bike to school safely, (3) student interest clubs (volunteering, cartoon club), (4) a PE class where your grade was not commensurate with your innate athletic ability, and (5) more than 12 minutes for lunch. There were downsides (the principal made the one on Abbott Elementary look incredibly hands-on and competent) but it was not all misery by any measure.

        2. I think it’s worse. At least back then, I could run off into the woods and get away from my tormentors. Teachers tried to be helpful, but can’t be everywhere. Now everyone is caged in with fences and secured perimeters so there’s NO place to go. I can’t imagine.

    9. I made the decision 5 years ago now so don’t know if that qualifies as recent but I never felt a huge pull to have kids. I mostly did it because my husband wanted one and I thought he would be an amazing dad. I love both my kid and being a mom way more than I expected to, but I don’t want a second kid and I’m also pretty sure my life would have been full and satisfying if we’d never had a kid.
      Some people feel that if you want kids you must have kidS plural, but one and done is a perfectly valid choice and for me was really the ideal compromise. I get to experience parenthood and the joy of being a mom but my life isn’t taken over by kid stuff.

      1. That’s pretty much where I am. I’m pregnant right now mostly because I know my husband will be a great dad. I’m looking forward to having a kid, but I didn’t feel like my life was missing something without one. I’m going to wait and see on a second kid. Not ruling it out.

    10. I’ll play. DH and I (married 20+ years) are child free by choice. I realized in my early 20s that I was just viscerally opposed to anything/anyone who was going to take away my ability to do what I wanted and focus my non-job-related energy on anything but myself. I need to work, so 40 hours per week + commuting time is already occupied by my job (which I really like, so that’s not an issue). The idea that I would then volunteer to have someone else claim the rest of my time was just abhorrent to me. To be honest, I also fall into the “doesn’t really like kids” camp, and am not anyone’s cool aunt. I don’t tell people “but I love my nephews….” so they won’t think I’m a weirdo. Kids are just not my bag, and I am so thankful that modern science (and until very recently jurisprudence) meant I haven’t had to have any.

    11. I have a 1yo. I always knew I wanted to be a mom and that my husband would be an amazing dad, so it wasn’t much of a decision. I do worry about the kind of world she’s going to grow up in, but I am also hopeful for the next generation and think I’m raising a child that will be part of a change for the better.

    12. I’m trying for my first right now. Honestly I’ve looked forward to having kids since I was one myself but have likewise really worried about climate change, LGBTQ & women’s rights. I read several books about being childfree to see if I could make peace with not having kids or delaying longer. I couldn’t ultimately see myself having a fulfilling life without trying mightily to have kids.

      What helped me decide: my childhood had some big issues (poverty, abuse, a very traumatic divorce). Nonetheless, I have many memories full of rich, happy experiences and a sense of being well-loved by many around me. This gives me some comfort that even though I can’t prevent my future children from experiencing negative events, they will still be able to have rewarding lives.

    13. I’m staunchly childfree, and for me, it is innate. It’s not really about the state of the world, it’s about the fact that I do NOT want to be pregnant or give birth, don’t find babies cute, hate children, and don’t want to spend my life on them.

      1. I’m disappointed whenever childfree people talk about “hating children.” I get that children can be tough to be around. They aren’t very socially adept and are basically disabled by adult standards. But I think society needs to push back on “hating children” as much as it pushes back on hate towards other people. Children are already at a profound disadvantage in the world!

        1. Fine, I hate being around children and limit my exposure to them as much as possible, including by not having any.

          1. I believe you, but I still wonder if you would say this so freely about any other category of people.

          2. I’m a different anon and I don’t hate children, but I do really hate being around them. I have some sensory issues and kids screaming are absolutely torturous for me. I also hate being around any other loud person or object and so I figure it’s in everyone’s best interest if I avoid them. I actually quite like kids when they’re quiet, but they usually don’t stay that way for long and I recognize that it’s unreasonable to expect them to. Kids just aren’t for everyone, and that’s okay.

          3. Many kids are always quiet. I had sensory issues as a child, and I was always quiet. I’ve had shared-wall apartment neighbors whose kids never screamed or made noise, I guess because they were from a culture with different cultural norms.

            But even if we’re talking about the children who do scream and make a lot of noise, would you talk about other loud people (say, hard of hearing people who are missing auditory feedback on their volume? people with tics that can be loud? immigrants from a culture that’s louder, rather than quieter, than your own?) the way you’re talking about kids? “They’re just not for everyone, and that’s okay”?

          4. Unfortunately, we seem to have had really different neighbors. Kids are actually uniquely bad because of how high pitched their voices are (leaf blowers are the only other thing I regularly encounter that’s even close to as bad). But like I said, I have plenty of trouble with other things that are loud, and do my best to avoid them too. It actually kind of sucks and limits my life in a lot of ways. It’s not personal and I do plenty to support schools, parents, and kids in other ways, but I really can’t handle being around them, at least until their voices change or they can stay quiet for more than a few minutes at a time. I can’t see how anyone benefits from me being miserable every time a kid screams.

          5. I’m not talking about what you should do; I’m commenting on how you are talking about this. What have you got against quiet children? Why are you making this about “children” in general, instead of about kids who scream? Who would say, “I have sensory issues, so it’s hard for me to be around old people, because of how they smell bad. Old people just aren’t for everyone, and that’s okay”? Children are people and have feelings too. They are societally more vulnerable than pretty much anyone else we encounter. I don’t think avoiding screeching kids is unreasonable; I don’t think everyone has to hang out with everyone else in society. But I don’t think we should talk about other people, especially disadvantaged people, with these kinds of sweeping generalizations; it’s uncool if it’s about immigrants, or disabled people, or the old, or the young. I think it’s strange to make an exception for the way we talk about children in particular.

          6. The discussion was about having children, not whether they should exist. It’s not like I go around telling people how much I hate kids, but when deciding whether I should have one, it seems pretty reasonable to make a decision about the general class of children. It’s not like I get to decide whether they will be loud or quiet or just leave every time they cry! If the question was whether anyone should have kids, that’s completely different. But I don’t think anyone who doesn’t want kids should have them.

          7. There ARE people who will willingly say they don’t want to be around elderly people because they smell bad. Is that an immature way to feel and an immature idea to express? Sure. But it is a thing, and you are never going to be able to argue people out of it on the Internet.

        2. If someone hates children, I’m not sure how that hurts society at all. Let them hate children and go enjoy being around the children in your life. You are never going to convince others who don’t want kids and don’t enjoy being around kids to like children. It’s a waste of time.

      2. When I read this, I just think you’re not a good person. Hating children is ageism. It’s a good thing you were never a child.

        1. Okay, but the only effects of her “ageism” are that she’s not spending time around children. Who cares? Doesn’t sound like she’s actively trying to make life worse for children in any way, shape, or form.

        2. Also the “well you were a child once” argument doesn’t resonate with me at all. Nobody had a choice in being a child.

          2. I think it is an example of overreaction to another person’s life choices, for sure.

          3. When posters ask a question, and the answer is truthful but disturbingly different than your worldview, do you wish they wouldn’t have answered/told their truth?

            Because that’s the vibe I’m getting lately.

        5. I think this is silly. It doesn’t sound like she is actively out there telling little kids she hates them or anything. She just chooses to not be around children, and that shouldn’t be a problem for anyone.

          1. Well, she’s telling us she hates them. If she came here saying the same thing about some other group of people, I’m pretty sure everyone would recognize it’s not okay.

            And it’s punching down. One of the #1 best things about being an adult is that I get to choose who to be around. Most children don’t even have that option.

          2. But when she clarified that she hates being around children, there was then push back on that.

      3. I grew up in a small town as the youngest of all my cousins, and never babysat or had any exposure to caring for a child while growing up. I saw pregnancy and motherhood as completely giving up your life and continuing to live in that small town. None of that appealed to me, and it still doesn’t. I honestly don’t believe I could have both a career and a family. In my 40s, happily married DINK, and have no regrets of not having kids.

    14. I’m 34, DH is 36. We’ve been married for 13 years and together for 19. So our experience is going to be colored by the fact we started dating as teenagers and got married in early twenties; basically we’ve grown up together. Just wanted to throw that out out there since I think it’s a much different experience than 28 year old adults getting married.

      When we started dating and got married, we sort of operated under the idea we would have kids in generalities, but neither one of us was particularly excited or motivated to have them. As we got to our later twenties, we were in our first home, settled in our careers, and we didn’t want to have kids. That was the real telling point for me; we were at a place in our life where we naturally would have and could have had them, and we were not interested at all in doing it. At some point we thought together, if we don’t want to do it, we shouldn’t, and that’s okay. If one of us would have wanted a kid, we probably would have had one, but neither of us did and we felt like it was something you should really want to do, not just do because it’s the “next step”. We’ve kind of checked in with each other in conversations from time to time to see if anything has changed (it hasn’t; if anything we’re more vehemently childfree by choice now), and generally talk about parenthood experiences of our friends (it looks forking hard, thanks no thanks for us) fairly often. We’re very confidently in our child-free decision, really never waffled, have not had regrets. We happily envision our future without kids. For us, 100% the right decision.

      However. You want to have kids. You want to be a mother. You should have a kid! Raise a radically wonderful loving accepting kid! All of those things that you just stated are big issues, for sure, but you’re zooming so far out that you’re losing perspective about what is happening in your actual experience of life (I am making assumptions here – but I bet your life, zoomed in, is good). Yes the big picture matters and we should care about it, but I think it’s really healthy to zoom in to our own communities and families and use that experience to make personal decisions and guide our personal actions.

      Also, read this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/05/opinion/climate-change-should-you-have-kids.html

      1. Interesting. DH and I have also been together since we were teenagers.

        I honestly think he would have really liked kids, and I worry sometimes he took the path of least resistance/put my wants on a pedestal/decided it was the woman’s decision. But this is definitely the easier path.

        1. Having kids as a couple should require two enthusiastically consenting parents. So if you don’t want kids and your husband does, your “no” prevails. It would be the same if you wanted kids and your husband didn’t.

          Also, it’s your body so your “no” is the final word.

          1. I assume this is all what DH believes!

            But I don’t honestly believe that having kids as a couple should require two enthusiastically consenting parents. Plenty of grateful parents have happily raised a happy but unplanned child before. And I’ve made plenty of decisions that weren’t actually right for me, so how confident am I that I even know what I want? With a degree of infertility thrown into the mix, it’s not clear even to myself if there’s a point at which the grapes soured for me. I’m also from a background where moms are stay-at-home moms, so it’s hard for me to unpack how much of “not wanting kids” for me as a teen was an expression of “wanting to go to college” and “wanting a career” and “not wanting to be stuck in a patriarchal marriage.” But maybe that same background means that my occasional sadness is just programmed into me. Anyway it’s all a ghost ship that didn’t sail now.

      2. I got together with DH when we were 18, married at 25. Bought our first house at 27. Traveled, camped, had careers. Upgraded house at 34 and that’s when we were ready. It was over 20 years ago. “Kids” are 23 and 20 and I wouldn’t have done it any other way. I never was sure about kids and he wasn’t either and then one day I woke up and felt like it was time. We talked about it a while and he got on board too. When/if you are ready, you should go for it.

    15. I’m in my late 30s, child free by choice. I’ve just never wanted kids or seen myself being a mother. Honestly DH and I barely seem to manage our household/lives as two working adults without a kid; I can’t imagine trying to this with a child (I have no idea how everyone with two working spouses manages, props to you all). But if I wanted kids, I don’t think I’d let the state of the world deter me. Honestly, the state of the world has always sucked for one reason or another and people still manage to live fulfilling lives.

      1. “Honestly DH and I barely seem to manage our household/lives as two working adults without a kid”

        +100! I’m 39 (engineer) and he’s 46 (small business owner) and I tell ya, we are terrible ‘adults’ sometimes! I don’t think we could even successfully have a pet haha

    16. Maybe controversial, but I think the only people who aren’t having kids because of climate change/the state of the world are people who don’t want kids but feel some combination of societal pressure and guilt and they’re looking for what they think is an objectively valid excuse to do what they want to do anyway. Wanting to be a mother is visceral, it’s something you feel to the core of your being not something you logic yourself into. I don’t think anyone who truly wants to be a parent would forgo parenthood because climate change or whatever. So, if these are your reason, I think you should really examine your feelings about having kids. It’s ok to be child free by choice! You only have one life and you are the only one who gets to decide how to live it. It’s ok to grieve the life you didn’t have – what was that essay about the ghost ship that didn’t carry you? You don’t have to pretend that you would really want to have kids but “can’t” because climate change. And frankly it comes off a little condescending, like you’re looking for some weird moral superiority over people who are having children (which I totally understand as a knee jerk response to people who act morally superior because they have kids, but it doesn’t make it ok).

      1. Frankly your view that people who feel this way are lying to themselves about their true feelings? Is what’s really condescending. It is possible for some people to look outside of their own wants and desires and think about the life they could provide for a child, and logically decide that it is not enough to bring new life into this world. It’s no different from deciding that one isn’t financially stable enough to have children, or that one isn’t in a committed/healthy enough relationship to have children, or any other rationale. Shockingly, people have different ways of making decisions! Some people are inherently more driven by logic and some are more driven by emotions.

      2. Not wanting to be a mother is also visceral. However, many people will not accept “I just don’t want to have children” as a “good enough” reason not to have them. In this very thread, several people who don’t want children and don’t want to be around children have been told they are “ageist” or “not good people” for their expressions of their personal feelings and desires regarding children. I don’t blame anyone who says they don’t want kids because of climate change or because of Roe falling. They are simply protecting themselves from the negative reactions of those who DO like/want kids and want everyone else to like/want them too.

        1. Saying you don’t want kids and saying you HATE them and don’t want to be around them are very different things. To the point above – what other category of people is it acceptable to say you HATE based on innate characteristics and not get called out for it?

          1. I know some people who refuse to be around/hate elderly people. I think it’s silly, but it’s how they feel. If someone HATES kids and doesn’t want to be around them, I don’t think forcing them to be around them or browbeating them about it is productive or going to help anyone. If someone really, really enjoys their relationship with a child in their life or with an elderly person in their life and those relationships are extremely meaningful to them, that is wonderful and I am happy for them, but I understand that isn’t a universal experience and am not interested in judging anyone for their choices about who they choose to spend time with.

          2. Well, I’m judging them because elderly people are also vulnerable and marginalized in society, and I’m judging them for what they say, not for who they choose to spend time with.

            What if someone were talking this way about foreigners or immigrants? Going online and broadcasting negative feelings about people categorically is totally different from just not having a relationship with them.

          3. (I use the example of immigrants or foreigners because it’s one I’ve encountered, but not one that I would expect to encounter here.)

    17. I’m lucky in that I have known since I was 16 I never wanted kids. I have never wavered in it; it honestly sounds really hard to be on the fence. I truly feel for you and anyone facing a decision.

      Now at 43 I love my life, I am very close to my niblings, and I literally cannot imagine having a child. No regrets.

    18. I’m 48 and always knew I didn’t want to have children. In fact, I lost some pretty serious relationships due to this stance. I work long hours and don’t understand how people have the time to devote to family that I would want to. I have also been extremely frightened by the idea of going through the birth process since I was a kid myself. For all the good parts of having kids, I’ve also witnessed my friends really struggle. I think that really shaped my views the most during prime childbearing years. I ultimately married someone much older with a grown son who wasn’t interested in having more, and we have a pretty amazing life together. That said, I never felt very strongly on whether or not this was the “right” decision for me until the past few years. I recently had a cancer diagnosis and on top of all of the awfulness in the world right now, it makes me so glad I don’t have to worry for a future that would likely be so tough had I had kids of my own. I don’t know if it’s the climate change so much that worries me as the huge divide between wealthy and the rest of us. I fear kids of tomorrow are facing a MUCH tougher struggle as it continues to get harder to have education, a home, better work-life balance than I’ve experienced and decent healthcare–and that’s before any impact of more recent “political” things like gun violence and body autonomy. I usually am an optimist, but these past few years have taken such a dark turn.I don’t know how working moms made it through quarantining. For the first time in my life I’m not only “not feeling regret” but I’m actually feeling relief.

    19. I have a 1 year old now. I completely respect anyone’s decision and reasons to not to have kids, but honestly, for me, it’s a million times better than I ever imagined it being. I will say we both knew we wanted kids in the future, so it was more a matter of when, not if. For a long time I wasn’t ready to destroy my old life by having a kid, and then suddenly one day I was ready for a new adventure. Sorry- I know that part isn’t very helpful. I was literally in the middle of a yoga class and a lightbulb went off and I went home and told my husband I was ready. We didn’t start trying for several more months for him to start feeling ready.

      It does feel like it irrevocably changed me. It makes total sense to me now how women can lose themselves and only define themselves as a mother (I still don’t want that to happen to me but man do I get it now). It’s like all my other loves/interests/passions are stars and now suddenly my daughter is here and she’s the sun. I don’t think I actually care less about everything else (maybe I do, who knows) but they all just seem dimmer now in comparison. Apparently you can actually see differences on brain MRIs after motherhood.

      I do worry a lot about our world and our future. I figure I’m happy to be alive, even though the world feels like it’s on fire, so hopefully my daughter is happy about it in the future too.

      2. This mirrors my experiences so much! I knew conceptually I wanted children and my husband wanted children. I wasn’t ready to give up my old life. It felt too hard. I honestly wanted to focus on the person I was as an individual.

        And then one day, I walked into one of the bedrooms of the home we had just purchased and said, ‘and this is the baby’s room’. Just like that. And… holy cow did it freak me out. I think I’m a much better mother because I actively chose to be one. It wasn’t something I did because it was expected of me; I had the opportunity to be young and dumb and make selfish choices.

        I wish now that people had told me how fun motherhood is. Don’t get me wrong, the hard parts are there; however, I wish I had known just how awesome it would be to raise a little human who puts his arm around you and says, ‘Hey mom! I think you’re great.’ or to play on the swings with my daughter until she laughs that deep toddler belly laugh.

        I am keenly aware of all the ills of the world and am raising my children with the express intent that they help make the world a better place. I know my world is better for having in them and I would choose it over and over.

    20. I have always wanted kids, but kept putting it off since I never felt “ready” and as my early thirties ticked by, I never felt a sudden urge that any particular moment was the one to start trying. I generally want to feel 100% ready for life transitions, which is unrealistic for pretty much any life change, but is absolutely impossible when it comes to having kids.

      After nudges from my husband, we decided to try and found out we needed medical intervention. I got a referral to a fertility clinic and made an appointment… in February of 2020. I remember thinking in March that there was NO WAY we could ever bring a child into this craziness (um, don’t make major life decisions in a crisis, obvs), but my husband encouraged me to just go to the initial appointment to see what our options were. While going through treatment, I gave a lot of thought to what our life together could look like without kids since I knew there were no guarantees it would work. I realized we would be okay, and could even have a really great life without, but also that deep down, I really wanted to be a parent.

      We now have a six month old and we’re one million percent over the moon. We’re leaning toward being one and done, partly because treatment was such an invasive slog, partly because of the cost of raising a child and our worry that with the state of the world, we want to be able to give our kid as stable of a start in life as we possibly can. We’re also in our late 30s, so I don’t want to assume that we’ll be able to have a second even if we try.

      I tend to think that people who attribute their choice not to have children to the state of the environment or the world never really wanted a child anyway. I can understand that response, since others often want a tangible “reason” why people aren’t having children, but I think it’s really rare to genuinely want to be a parent but still intentionally opt out.

    21. I have a 9 month old. I thought parenting would be exhausting and awful, from watching my friends, but I had always deeply wanted children. I was right. I love being a mom more than anything I’ve ever done. So my decision was deeply selfish and deeply rewarding. Please do know that I have had the privilege of extensive help from grandparents and paying for a part time nanny, and I have been on medical leave and not yet worked with a child. That 100% factored into my experience. I think I would have loved it anyway but been more tired, but we will see in late July!

      1. I love this for you – and I know your parenthood so far has not been easy!

    22. I never particularly wanted to have children, but one of the many side effects I get on hormonal contraception is that (ironically) I get pretty bad baby fever. This is so consistent that part of me isn’t sure whether either feeling is real, but maybe there’s no meaning to trying to figure it out.

    23. I was very on the fence, for most of the reasons you cite, but DH wanted kids so I got on board (though it was hard). We now have 2. I love my children, but I feel very clearly like I would have been MUCH happier on the “ghost ship” where I didn’t have children, in part because I can no longer/rarely do the things that make me happiest (get away by myself, adventure)

      I am also terrified by climate change and think that the Ezra Klein piece that people refer to was looking at overly optimistic scenarios – the climate doesn’t stop changing by 2050. We’ve likely reached the point of unleashing natural feedback cycles that will continue to increase the GHG emissions even if we curb human ones, and it will continue to get worse. I stay awake crying about this at night – I feel like we’ve left all of our babies on a wooden raft in the ocean and lit a match.

    24. Thanks everyone for the thoughtful replies. I really appreciate hearing all of the different perspectives. I do want to respond to the couple of comments implying that people who say they don’t want to have children due to climate change, etc are lying to themselves and actually never wanted kids in the first place. At least for me, that is not true. I have cried about this many times – I feel like I have been robbed of having this be an easy, joyful decision to start a family. Just because you don’t think it’s a valid reason to question parenthood, don’t assume that those who do are lying.

      2. Hi OP – I have a book recommendation for you. It’s called Factfulness, and is written by a Swedish medical doctor with a passion for UN statistics called Hans Rosling.

        It’s a book that highlights and examines how people in all countries of the world live now, and used to live, and how to use actual numbers and facts to decide whether to feel optimistic or pessimistic about the future. Including climate change, which he was passionate about.

        I think that if you have a deep feeling of being unsettled and worn down by pessimism about the world, this book might be interesting and helpful.

      3. OP, I am here to tell you, pregnant and expecting our first, that absolutely your feelings are valid and I shared them until Biden’s election. Of course, since then we’ve had some horrible turns of events, but truly we would not having a child if Trump was elected to a second term. We with consciences are out there. Not saying others don’t have one, but I want to validate your point that you can both want to be a parent and choose not to (for however long) because you are trying to help make the world better YOURSELF (not just waiting for the kids to do it).

    25. I didn’t grow up imagining being a mom or anything like that, but there came a point when I very much wanted a kid – a very visceral yearning. We had a baby and then when COVID hit, things were really hard for my family and we thought a lot about staying with just one bit over time as things normalized a bit and vaccines became available the desire and energy for another kid came back. I understand where you are coming from but will also say that becoming a parent has really opened my eyes to a lot of problems and inequalities and my husband and I are more politically engaged then before having kids – so you don’t have to just despair but you can fight for your kids future.

  17. Thanks everybody for your advice yesterday on what to wear in France and Germany this summer – so very helpful!

    Any recs on a source for a lightweight (I’m thinking linen, but I’m open) cardigan to wear on my travels this summer? I feel like I saw them everywhere a couple years ago and can’t find any now. Thanks!

  18. SCOTUS, killing this country (and planet) one decision at a time. The last time I felt this unproud to be American was in the fall of 2005 and I was studying abroad in Spain and some Spaniards wanted to know why we had elected a president who started a war in Iraq. I tried explaining that I personally did not elect said president, though from 2016-2020 I’d have paid a lot of money to have him back in office. i suppose i’m still glad to live in a country with free speech, but i’ve never felt less like celebrating the fourth of july than i do this year

    1. Same. I’m not sure what to do with these feelings, but I am feeling very unpatriotic at the moment.

      1. Same. We’re going abroad next week and I’m debating pretending to be Canadian bc I am so embarrassed and don’t want to get into it!!

        1. Along these lines, it can be so tiring, but I feel like it’s important for liberals to (re)claim America and patriotism and flag waving and all that, otherwise it becomes sort of a sick MAGA parody, and I’m not ok with that.

          We honeymooned in Europe right after you know who was sworn in, and everyone we met was fascinated and appalled and asked our thoughts. I begged them to know that he was not elected by a majority of Americans and a majority of Americans did not (and STILL DON’T – can I get an amen?!) support his policies. I’m not willing to let my country be some SNL skit of itself…but it’s hard and tiring and so easy to feel defeated. Sink into it for a bit, but then let’s brush ourselves off and get to work.

          1. This is a fair point, but at the moment I am just exhausted and want the mental break of being 4000 miles away, not showing Europeans that I’m not like those Other Americans.

    2. Same. I have a coworker who aggressively celebrates July 4, and since our office is closed tomorrow, she is militantly observing it at everyone around her today and I am ready to scream. Not hyperbole: I have my door shut so I can focus on a complex project, she opened it to jump in my office with a kazoo and shouted “I LOVE THE USA! DON’T YOU JUST LOVE THE USA?!?” There is glitter, FFS.

      2. Kazoo and glitter? I think my heart grew a few sizes smaller for this holiday just reading this.

        1. Correct. And this is not a kazoo & glitter office. We work in investment banking, i.e., ultra-stuffy, suits & ties, no WFH these past years bc COVID doesn’t exist in our world, etc. etc.

          2. OMG that’s awesome! Thank you for the charming visual of a dark skirt suit, white button up blouse, conservative pumps and perhaps red-white-blue glitter star deelee boppers!

          3. omggggg that’s kind of amazing, actually.

            your story. not the coworker. the coworker sounds bananas.

      3. OMG, I would lose my job if someone tried this in my office (and probably watching the fireworks from jail).

      4. I’m sorry but this is hilarious. If it was happening to me I’d be absolutely irate but as a person it isn’t happening to I am legitimately laughing out loud.

    4. I am so skipping the big family 4th of July celebration this year. The majority of them are pro-Trump, ultra right wing, evangelical Christian people and I cannot with that right now. I don’t even want casual interaction with people like that right now. I am an angry woman. I do not feel like celebrating my country at the moment.

    5. Wow — do people not get how elections work that they asked you such a question? Maybe if you still have a king I get maybe you don’t get it, but elections surely are not that novel? “If I had that much power, do you think I’d be here?!”

    6. I assume you’re talking about West Virginia v. EPA? Striking down Roe is getting all the attention, but this case is really almost as bad. Not only does it prevent the EPA from regulating carbon emissions, but sets a precedent that really limits the ability of federal agencies to do anything.

      1. Yeah I honestly can’t tell which decision I’m more upset with, stroking down Roe or EPA v WV. Like it’s honestly a toss up and I cried last Friday…

      2. Is there any way back from this? Climate change is my number one issue and this seems like it could devastate any US efforts…

        1. I actually think this is a case where the direct implication (EPA can’t regulate carbon emissions from power plants) isn’t going to matter that much, but the precedent will be much more significant. We’ve already dramatically decreased the amount of coal we burn and it makes no sense to build new coal plants because it’s so much cheaper to use gas or build new solar or wind capacity. Gas has its own issues, and we absolutely need to do a lot more to facilitate moving from fossil fuels, but there are a lot of ways to do that besides just telling electric power plants not to burn them. Cost is now on the side of renewables, it’s mostly a matter of building infrastructure to make it really viable on a large scale.

          1. That makes sense – thanks for the perspective. The precedent you’re talking about is that federal agencies are now limited in their ability to mandate anything?

          2. Yeah- I haven’t had a chance to see in depth analysis of the opinion yet, but it definitely places limits on agencies to to mandate anything outside of what they’re explicitly told to do by Congress, which is hard when Congress doesn’t do anything anymore. It makes it very challenging to adapt to changing circumstances and signals that the court will be looking very closely for anything they deem to be overreach.

          3. Except private buyers are literally firing up WS state coal plants to mine Bitcoin. Heaven help us because the Supreme Court sure won’t.

          5. Also, to be clear, I do think this is bad- not allowing the EPA to regulate CO2 from power plants will slow down the move to renewables, it’s just not quite as bad as it might sound. I’m more concerned about other climate initiatives also being stopped and other agencies not being able to regulate effectively.

          6. Thanks for your perspective! I used to work in renewables/climate but left a few years ago and feel out of the loop

      3. yes, i was referencing that decision as well. can someone explain the basis of the decision in laymen’s terms?

      4. It literally says the EPA can regulate the emissions if congress passes a law telling them to. It didn’t, so it can’t.

        I do not understand how saying the legislative branch needs to be in charge is somehow responsible for killing the planet.

    7. I am perversely feeling the push to more patriotic if that’s possible. I never said the pledge when I was a teacher, and am hugely skeptical of nearly all displays of patriotism because i think it’s a slippery slope to nationalism (and I’ve long been critical of our corporatist, militaristic global influence). But d@mmit if I’ll let these treasonous fools crapping all over our Constitution stake their claim on our country.

      1. I commented earlier, and … I know you’re right. You’re being such a grownup about this. I feel like I’m doing what I can, but that it’s never, ever going to be enough.

      2. My husband’s stepfather, who is very liberal, as are my husband and I, always hated the Fourth of July because he saw it as Republican propaganda. My husband and I always thought that was a weird take because 1. We are NOT letting conservatives own patriotism and 2. F King George.

      3. YES! Aunt Jamesina, you put it perfectly for me. I’m the same about the pledge and overt displays of patriotism (I think some of my neighbors decorate exclusively with American flags) and yet – when I hear my liberal friends talking about leaving, I’m like F that, this is my country. MAGA Trumpers anti-choices do not get to win by making me give up or leave. We have hundreds of years of people who have fought hard for liberty and individual rights and I’m quite positive they were demoralized at times.

    8. There are so many feelings as we go into July 4 this year. I’m second generation so I was raised with a lot of pride for this country that gave my family a new start. It is “uncool” for liberals to be patriotic, and I understand that blind patriotism is bad and we should acknowledge the serious improvements that must be made. But aren’t we all here and being politically active because we care for the people of this country and want better? I will stay here and fight with love and determination. It is patriotic to protest, to vote, to call your congresspeople, and to work for a better future. Those are the things I will reflect on next week.

      1. +1. My partner (who’s Australian) has been openly wondering about us leaving the country. We live in deep blue California, so there’s that, but I just feel that this country and the lofty (but not-yet-reached) ideals of this country are worth fighting for. (To the point that I actually started fighting with internet trolls the other night after exceeding my self-imposed cocktail limit.) Maybe at some point I’ll get tired and change my mind, but I’m just not there yet.

    9. Sometimes I drive by a house that has a black lives matter flag, a gay rights flag, and an American flag. That’s the kind of celebration I want to see for July 4 2022

  19. I am a long-time reader of this site (2009?) and went anonymous after everyone left. In an effort to rebuild the positive community of this site I will now use a new handle, and I encourage others to do the same

    3. Wait, when did everyone leave? I’ve been here on and off since 2010ish….. I can start doing a name too ;)

    4. I guess as a counterpoint, I really value the anonymity on this s i t e. I can speak more freely, including about my own life experiences, than if I were required to have a regular handle. I participate more because I’m not anxious about revealing some personal detail that could be strung together with other details to figure out who I am. The pile ons here (and elsewhere, it’s not unique) are bad enough, I can’t imagine if I were doxxed on top of it.

      1. Feel free to use a different handle for every day or even different threads within the same day. Even this brings coherence, and makes clear when it’s really just 1-2 Anons trying to look like a huge mob.

      2. I almost always post under my handle, but when it comes to more identifying info, I either obscure facts (so maybe my cousin in my story becomes my stepsister) or post under a different name for that thread. I think it works pretty well.

        1. +1, there are a bunch of little white lies in, I assume, every “regular” comment history.

        2. I do too – and I’ll go anon once in a while if I want to ask a question that requires details for context. Even then I usually try to obfuscate a bit so people aren’t like, “Vicky is that you??”

      3. +1 This is my view as well. I would never participate if I had to have a regular handle or be logged in to do so. I’d stop checking in very quickly. There’s been some times where comments for some reason were disabled for anons, and I stopped reading and only found out things were back to normal by accident.

    5. Yes! Handles all day! Handles for civility! Handles for accountability! Handles for community! Handles for the whole table please!

      1. Yes! I feel stuck with this silly handle after my first response: Someone was asking if they should approach a man in their office building that had lost an extreme amount of weight to see if they were sick and needed help. When I responded that I’d “BeenThatGuy”, well, I stuck with it.

    6. Glad to see you here! And I’d love it if more people started using consistent handles :-)

    7. I know Hypatia is like a real person, but now I’m just picturing you as Lisa Kudrow at the end of the Good Place being called Patty :-)

  20. Lawn maintenance etiquette advice needed. DH and I just moved to the suburbs and have our first ever lawn; a backyard that is decently private and a front yard that is very visible (they are connected on each side). No HOA here, but the lawns in our area are well-maintained and pretty. For a variety of reasons, we are interested in transitioning to a clover lawn. Basically that means we let our grass die and then plan clover seeds at the end of summer. Will we be neighborhood menaces if we do this? Both the letting grass die and planting clover. Maintaining the lawn until then seems so wasteful to me but I don’t want the neighbors to resent us.

    1. Yes, your neighbors are likely to get ticked off. You can maaaybe get away with adding a garden of native plants and such, but whatever you do, keep it maintained.

    2. I think it would go over better to keep the lawn lazily this summer and plan for clover in spring, which is a better time for it anyway.

    3. Yes, you will be neighborhood menaces because the clover will spread to your neighbors’ lawns. Can you use a ground cover that is less invasive?

      Thinking ahead, you will have a very hard time selling a house with a clover “lawn” because clover is a weed. If you have something like dichondra in an area where this is not uncommon, it will be less of an issue.

    4. I would start slow (and in your backyard) for a few reasons: you’re new to yard work, you’re new to your neighbors (they’ll have less to complain about if you’re established as those nice people that moved in versus those new people that are ruining our neighborhood), and changing over the lawn is a LOT of work if you have to rip stuff out, even in a small yard. We’ve slowly changed over our yard in the past few years, and I don’t think we’ve pissed off the old guard Roundup-wielders with this approach (one exception being our resident crank).

      1. +1 Yard/landscape maintenance is definitely a skill learned over many years. In every house I’ve lived in I have slowly added raised beds, enlarged the native planting beds and minimized lawn. Sometimes I’ve been very visible about it (front yard garden when I was on the HOA board and several neighbors were enthusiastic, supportive master gardener types) and other times started with existing useless side yards or eye sore locations.

        If I were you, I’d think about your overall goals for the landscape, start in the back yard and consider engaging professional help.

    5. your neighbors will not be happy. It’s not like clover is going to stay at the boundaries of your yard…

    6. Honestly I don’t think you have to do anything drastic to get a clover lawn. DH and I have a large yard, and since we don’t feed/seed or water our lawn it’s mostly clover and other short green plants. Since we mow it and it’s flat and green, I don’t think anyone notices that it’s not all grass. Perhaps just put the clover seeds down on the lawn without removing the grass, and see what happens.

      1. Agree. You can add clover to your existing lawn and gradually let it take over. No need to let your grass die.

        Clover is a funny thing – I’m planting our lawn with clover – and one of my grass-purist colleagues visible cringed when I told him I was doing that.

    7. I don’t know what “menace” means — are you concerned that the clover you plant will invade other people’s yards? If you’re simply worried that neighbors will be angry because your lawn doesn’t look good or look the same as theirs . . . that something you’ll have to decide how much you care about, if it comes up. Enough to let it stop you from doing what you’re thinking?

      If you care a lot about what your neighbors think and how they might react, I might tell the people on either side why I’m letting the grass die. Or be sure to add some great xeriscape landscaping to the front lawn at the same time, making it obvious that I care and am tending to the property.

    9. I have an unintentional mostly-clover lawn and no one has ever complained about it. We still mow, it’s not overgrown, just full of clover. I don’t think you need to do anything to achieve this; if you don’t treat your lawn, it’s likely to naturally develop more biodiversity than just a blanket of grass.

    10. I am my corner’s lawn “menace.” Hahaha. I hate mowing (although finally outsourced that to a teen), I rarely edge/weed whack, I haven’t seeded a huge patch of my yard that was dug up months ago bc LAZY (and don’t care), and generally do the absolute bare minimum bc I have zero pride in what my grass or, more accurately, my weed lawn looks like.

      It’s been fine. I’ve been here two years and am good friends with one set of neighbors, and always have pleasant convos with my others who definitely maintain their lawns far better than I do. But I generally have lovely neighbors so YMM (vastly) V.

    11. Agree with others that the thing to do is to let your lawn naturally transition to clover over time. I didn’t intend to clover my lawn, it clovered itself. I just don’t use herbicides or fertilizers. It’s not all clover but a mix of grass, clover, and of low lying plants that stand up to mowing. I think that’s probably the more ecological way to do it anyway. I do weed out Bermuda grass and foxtails, but it’s not like I’m out there every day working on it.

    12. Not knowing where you live this may not apply, especially if grass in your area requires intentional watering in order to live.

      In my region (upper Midwest), there is no such thing as just letting the grass die. You need to either rip it out, kill it off, or overplant with something more vigorous. You can neglect mowing it and let it turn into a festering, tick-filled eyesore, but that is not the way to prepare for a transition to clover (nor to maintain good relationships with the neighbors).

    13. I clovered our backyard – largely because it was hard to keep grass alive there and clover is so much heartier. I didn’t kill the grass, just put out clover seed for each season, there are different kinds, and let it take over. It looks so much better now – it’s green and lush and much more low maintenance so I highly recommend it. I can’t speak to the neighbor factor as I live in a funky area where there’s not a lot of symmetry to the homes.

    14. We have kurapia and love it! It was put in by the previous occupant, and there’s a boundary with native plants between our yard and the next so it doesn’t invade our neighbors.

  21. Career question: I am likely to be promoted for the second time this year as part of merger-related org restructuring. My imposter syndrome is flaring up because it’s so quick and I feel like I haven’t built the skills to lead at this level. It will be my first time leading other leaders rather than leading individual contributors. The majority of my team will be people who haven’t worked with me much before, so while I’m still at the same company, it has a bit of a new job flavor (and I’m out of practice with that, too!).

    Tell me your best ideas for what I should do next, both to do A Good Job and to feel less imposter-y. Books to read, leadership courses, career coach, find a mentor? What has worked for you coming into a position like this? What have you liked or disliked about *your* leaders?

    1. Find an outside professional coach or mentor you can use as a sounding board. You’re being promoted because you’re great and you’ll do wonderful things. I know it’s easier said than done, but embrace it and find a group of supporters to be with you for celebrating your successes and holding you steady when things droop (like they will for everyone at some point).

    2. All of the bad leaders I’ve encountered were focused on the people above them rather than those they were supposed to be leading. As a leader, your job is to advocate for your team and to make sure they have the resources they need to do their jobs, then get out of their way. Let your staff present their own work to senior management. Don’t ever take credit for your staff’s work.

      Information hoarding and gossip are also incredibly toxic management behaviors.

    3. Best advice I got was to b!tch up. You never complain to a subordinate or peer. And the advice above about paying attention to your people is 100% on point.

      1. (sorry, never complain to a *subordinate*. Peers are definitely available for what we like to call “un-happy hour”.)

  22. Does anyone have any must-read self help books? I’ve enjoyed Gretchen Rubin/James Clear type stuff before. Never tried Brene Brown or Elizabeth Gilbert.

    1. I don’t know that I would classify Brene Brown as self-help, but I think her work is so relevant. I would highly recommend. I personally loved The Power of Vulnerability which is only on audio (it is more a seminar she gave than a book), but much of the material is repeated in the actual book Daring Greatly, if you’re not into audio. I have a preference for The Power of Vulnerability, but both are great!

      1. I find Brene Brown incredibly annoying, just like all of the other self-help books that encourage navel-gazing and self-centeredness.

        I do like The Artist’s Way because it provides some practical exercises that actually help to facilitate creativity and get you out of a rut.

        1. Heh, me too. A good read for the anti self-help crowd out there is Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals. by Oliver Burkeman.

        2. Funny, I found Brene Brown’s book (the one I read, forget which one) much less annoying than I thought I would. It was fairly thorough and not repetitive or breathless (I’m looking at you, Eve Rodsky and Unicorn Space).

    2. Maybe something by Marsha Linehan? I’ve only skimmed her works here and there, but I find her story fascinating.

        1. Fair enough. I highly recommend regardless – I definitely picked up helpful nuggets for myself from it!

  23. I’m curious whether any of you use a paper planner for personal use (not to track work stuff). Or do any of you do a combined planner of some kind? I feel like I have a very good digital system going to track my personal appointments and such, but I don’t do such a great job at writing down personal goals and other life maintenance things. I don’t think I could ever go full Shubox (honestly, that level of planning commitment would stress me out), but I do see value in actually writing things down rather than being tethered to a device at all times.

    1. I think hand-written lists are great to keep at my desk, or whatever workspace, as it’s nice to have in plain sight, cross off items, and add notes if needed. All my appointments are digital.

    2. I use a Lilly Pulitzer agenda calendar that has monthly and weekly calendar sections, and sections for notes, addresses, travel plans etc. I additionally use the phone calendar for non recurring or irregularly occurring appointments so that I can use the reminder alert function for these.

      1. YAAAAS — I am ususally the Office Goth but this planner sparks such joy. And it’s time to get a new one for 2022-2023!

        1. Aging Office Goth here. Yes my wardrobe is mostly black with some white and gray to lighten it up a bit ha ha. I don’t wear Lilly except for pool stuff because it’s not my vibe, but I delight in my cheerfully bright Lilly planner. I bought my new one this week and it is very, very pink.

    3. I am super low tech. Legal pad. Everything I need to do gets written on it. As a page gets unwieldy, I start fresh and roll over tasks that weren’t yet crossed off.

      It often sprouts multiple sticky notes with running lists that I can peel off to take to the applicable store.

    5. I use a planner to track personal and work stuff. I’ve tried many different ones and by far the hobonichi techo cousin is my favorite. It is just such a smart layout with plenty of room to write and flexibility to use as you like. I can’t recommend it enough. I used to order it directly from hobonichi but with the additional international shipping costs I found the cost to be the same just ordering it through amazon

    6. I have used and like the Ink+Volt planner for personal stuff, as well as the Unbound planner. Both are great. I keep a separate work calendar.

    7. I have a paper planner where I write down both work and personal appointments and try (with so so success) to track habits each month. I also keep one notebook for my whole life, work or personal that is always with me.

    8. Still have my black leather Filofax that my mom bought me in 1998. I use it as a back up for work appointments, for my personal appointments, jotting down goals, and keeping track of other habits or health-related info. I feel like I’m more likely to follow through on goals and tracking this information if its written instead of using an app that clutters up my phone that I may just forget about.

  24. Question for those of you who use nannies. My daughter nannies part-time as a college student. She’s been nannying for a family for a while where the mom is either super super nice to her, or screaming her head off at my daughter over really stupid sh1t (and in many cases, nothing my daughter did, but something someone else did.) So my daughter, despite being attached to the kids, decided it was too much and gave several weeks notice, and offered flexibility to work with the family for a smooth transition until they could find a replacement. The mother of course was not having it, flew into a rage, did some name-calling and fired my daughter on the spot.

    So now she has no reference for her next gig. I’m sure most people who hire an experienced nanny would call the last family for a reference. What should my daughter do in this situation?

    1. I would actually expect this woman to calm down and give a reference once she cools off. But I see how it might not be possible to do the kind of communication necessary to make that happen.

      Did your daughter interact with other mothers in the course of her duties? Maybe she could give one of them as a reference?

      1. She met a mom at the park while nannying and they really hit it off and were forming a friendship until the mom started trying to recruit her for an MLM. I wish I were making this up!

      2. And on the cooling off period, maybe, but since this mom was cool 75% of the time and raged 25% of the time, I’ve advised my daughter not to assume which version of her would be responding to the reference request!

    2. We took a couple our nanny had babysat for as a reference. Does she have any of those?

      1. Yes thanks, they’re now a couple of years ago and a bit stale but I will suggest that to her.

      2. +2, I wasn’t picky about who our nanny offered as a reference. I just wanted 1-2 who could verify her abilities with kids.

  25. Repost due to m0d

    Question for those of you who use nannies. My daughter nannies part-time as a college student. She’s been nannying for a family for a while where the mom is either super super nice to her, or screaming her head off at my daughter over really stupid sh1t (and in many cases, nothing my daughter did, but something someone else did.) So my daughter, despite being attached to the kids, decided it was too much and gave several weeks notice, and offered flexibility to work with the family for a smooth tr@nsition until they could find a replacement. The mother of course was not having it, flew into a rage, did some name-calling and fired my daughter on the spot.

    So now she has no reference for her next gig. I’m sure most people who hire an experienced nanny would call the last family for a reference. What should my daughter do in this situation?

    1. It probably would never dawn on me that a college student sitter even has a resume gap from sitting jobs. I hire sitters and I guess I’ve never asked for references AND asked anything like “were you working last week/month and where is that person’s reference and WHAT ARE YOU HIDING?” Is it something to mention if she has other good references?

      1. She worked there for over a year and it’s a long gap. It’s good to hear you wouldn’t check references though!!

        1. I mean, if a sitter is in college, I might think the gap is more for classwork or schedules or COVID than that anything is missing. Different than if it is a grownup and this is a primary job.

    2. Was there a second parent in the mix who could be her reference? Otherwise I think she could state a more neutral version of what you shared here to explain that while she has experience, the reference is likely to be unsatisfactory. It happens.

      1. There was a very uninvolved dad who I’m sure would not do anything to anger his wife further, and who also had next to no interaction with the childcare situation.

    3. first of all, i’m so sorry that your daughter experienced this. has she nannied for other families? if so, i would use them as references and I would be upfront that she actually quit her last nanny job

      1. This was her first job she would describe as nannying. Before this she was in high school and did date night babysitting.

        1. I would be totally fine with a babysitting client as a reference. I’d be looking for them to vouch for her trustworthiness, reliability, and skills with kids, not that she can translate date night baby sitting into all day nannying (that’s much more about what she says, and my kids individually).

    4. Tell a non-accusatory version of the truth in a way that makes it clear that the employer was nuts without going into too much detail and makes your daughter look like a classy person with good discretion. Then provide other references from babysitting, other jobs, etc.

    5. We have a nanny, and yes we did call prior family references when hiring. As another poster suggested, I think your daughter will just have to be honest about the situation, and let new families know that the reference might not be good.

      Has your daughter babysat for other families that she could list as additional references? Even just date nights or the like vs. regular nannying?

    6. I’d recommend she do a lot of babysitting to fill the gap and then use those families as references when she gets a new nannying job

    7. If she interacted with other kids’ parents at activities, etc. and had a good relationship, she could ask them if they’d be willing to be a reference. I had a stint as a stay at home mom after my kids had established friendships with kids who had nannies, and I would have been happy to take a reference call for those nannies. (I would have been clear about the relationship — but it’s better than no reference at all.)

  26. Can anyone help me with words to say to decline an invitation from my (likely personality-disordered) sister?

    Background: my older sister (both in our 40s, married, 2 kids for me, 1 for her) has a long history of unstable, erratic behavior, stemming from when we were kids. Binge drinking, lying, tempestuous romantic relationships, maxing out credit cards, intentional overdose and inpatient psych stay, and more. She verbally abused me throughout our teens/20s/30s, and my parents always told me that they couldn’t take sides, that I must have done something to cause her to act like that. After a particularly horrible stretch nine years ago, I put very firm boundaries in place with her: I go Gray Rock when we are together (which is rare, as we live on opposite coasts), and I make sure we aren’t ever alone just the two of us. Polite, superficial, distant. My partner is fully aware of all the history and 100% supportive of this, stays close by me during visits so that I’m not alone with her.

    We have an upcoming trip where we’ll all be visiting my mom. My sister just texted me and asked me to save an hour so that the two of us could go out for coffee or a beer. I don’t want to do this. It literally gives me palpitations to think about being alone with her. In the past, setting simple boundaries has caused her to explode into verbal abuse, and I would prefer to avoid that as well. If I decline, I can also guarantee that she will call my mom crying, and then my mom will blame me for being unsupportive or dramatic. Can anyone giving me language to deflect or decline her invitation? Or is this just a toxic, untenable situation?

    I have an excellent therapist, btw. She has been very clear that she can’t diagnose my sister with anything from afar, but she has recommended that learning about borderline personality disorder would be useful. That pattern seems to fit, from my perspective.

    2. you are both married? will all spouses and kids be coming on this trip? can’t you just text your sister and say something like, ‘sounds good, let’s see what’s going on during the trip” and then always be busy so there is no time for this. how long is the trip? are you all staying with your mom?

    4. Is it possible she’s in some sort of 12 step program where she wants to make amends or whatever? You don’t have to let her and you don’t have to accept even if you hear her out, that’s part of the bargain.

      1. Although the devil’s advocate part of me, and the part of me that has a sister who is disconnected from reality in other ways, thinks your sister wants 1:1 time because she’s not getting enough attention from you due to the Gray Rocking. And I don’t mean positive attention. She probably wants to pick a fight so she can have another grievance against you. Don’t be lured into that nonsense.

      2. You can make amends in a letter. Or at least not be mysterious. But I think 99.9% it’s likely this is not going to end well and no amends will be made.

    6. I personally would cut ties with my mother is she behaved like your mother. Plan a separate trip to see your mother.

    7. I have a brother who is similar to your sister and have gone no contact with him. It has been 4 or 5 years, and it has been glorious. I would ignore the text and not see the sister.

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