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Cc
I need help with my skin. In the last few months it has just been awful. The big thing is redness – bright red and sometimes if I am speaking at a meeting or something my entire face will turn red. It’s also very dry and tight. I also have so many bumps. I went to a derm who I found so dismissive – he said it’s rocesea but there was really nothing to do for it except a laser treatment. The bumps he said were a combo of oil glands that could be lanced and some that are more like skin tags. Does anyone have 1) advice for at home treatment in the meantime and 2) a derm (or should I be seeing someone different than a derm? A facial?) in the Boston / metro west area who can help. I’m not opposed to the laser and the lancing I just need someone to like help with a treatment plan that’s less rushed to talk to me
Clementine
Boo to your dismissive doc. Different rosacea responds to different things, but two common recommendations that you could do are 1. Azelaic Acid – the prescription one is called Finecia but you can also get one from The Ordinary for cheap. In some people it helps rosacea immensely but know that it can also irritate it in others. The second thing is to do… as little as possible. Like, wash with water, use a tiny bit of cetaphil or similar products but nothing else. That can help identify if any products are irritating you.
Good luck!! I hope somebody has somebody good in your area to recommend.
anon
Rosacea can be a bear to deal with. Mine is under control but it took lots of experimentation to get there. And everyone responds differently. Right now, I think you need to focus on getting your skin calmed down before addressing the rosacea. Think very gentle cleansers (I like the La Roche Posay hydrating stuff or Cerave) and moisturizing like crazy. A moisturizer with hyaluronic acid will help. Do this for at least 2-4 weeks before attempting anything else. You have to rebuild the moisture barrier.
I didn’t react well to Differin (OTC) or Finacea (Rx), but it works well for some. My derm had me on a steroid treatment temporarily to get the redness and inflammation down. It worked, but the derm was pretty clear that it was meant to be a temporary solution, as the steroids can thin your skin over time if you use them for too long.
Anon
That is strange that he would Dx rosacea and then prescribe no rosacea treatment. No Finacea? No Soolantra? Heck, not even some metronidazole? Sometimes rosacea doesn’t respond well to treatment, but sometimes it does. I’m not sure why the doc you saw thought it wasn’t worth trying.
Cc
He said no cream helps except the lasers. Yes I left feeling very discouraged! I needed some advice like above – I actually have prob been making it worse because I did the opposite of leaving it alone because I have been trying new things to try to help the bumps and redness
Anne-on
That’s BS tbh. I’m in mod but differin and sulfur ointment (de la cruz) make a HUGE difference when I’m having a flare and for general maintenance.
Anne-on
Sorry for being all over this thread but I’ve done a series of clear and brilliant lasers for adult acne. It did help with redness/texture/clarity but that only lasted maybe 12-18mo after the last treatment. Finding a gentle skincare routine that works for maintenance and addressing flares when they happen with appropriate meds has been the way bigger factor in keeping my skin clear.
Mmg
I’m sorry. I go to mgh dermatology at 50 Staniford St in Boston – not metro west but it’s a very big practice which makes getting an appointment easier, and every doc I’ve seen has been good (I go for eczema and yearly skin checks so not rosacea).
Anon
You need to see a different derm. That one probably is pushing laser treatment because the clinic owns a machine. I have rosacea – it’s pretty mild, but it’s there – and my derm recommended trying azelaic acid OTC, and if that didn’t get results, using a sulfur mask (there are tons of them out there for acne) once or twice a week only on the red areas, to see if that helped. The azelaic didn’t do much (I used The Ordinary brand) but the sulfur mask completely cleared it up. I put the mask on, let it sit for 10 minutes, wash it off. Right now I am using the Peter Thomas Roth sulfur mask but there are many available and from many different skincare companies – Sunday Riley has one and there are also cheaper ones.
If the OTC stuff hadn’t worked for me, my derm said to come back and there were prescriptions to try. I haven’t needed them but the meds mentioned above are the ones that were mentioned to me. Try some OTC treatments and then if those don’t work, go to a different doctor. P.S., I don’t know how old you are but both the dermatologist and my gynecologist told me it’s common for rosacea to develop in perimenopause; it’s triggered by hormonal changes and usually gets better over time.
Anon
Yeah I’m sorry but Soolantra and Finacea didn’t just dupe the FDA. They’re on–label prescription rosacea treatments because they can help some people to a significant degree! They don’t help everyone, but that’s true of a lot of meds, and they are not considered controversial. (There actually used to be whole internet communities devoted to using OTC horse paste for rosacea before Soolantra finally came out; that was a little more controversial! But the science backed them up in the end.)
Maybe it is not a surprise if topicals aren’t helping this doctor’s patients if he’s giving 0% advice on avoiding irritants? I can only cleanse my skin with Vanicream Free & Clear, there’s a long list of ingredients my skincare products mustn’t contain, and I use hyaluronic acid serum afterward every time I wash my face, etc.
Anon
One thing my doctor told me is to never ever use sunscreen with oxybenzone or avobenzone in it; those are major irritants. I use a mineral sunscreen now and it’s definitely helped.
anon
That is absolutely not true. You need a new doc.
Anon
The creams have helped my rosacea a ton. Your doc is a dud.
I have a comment in m0d but I get my rosacea rx topical from curology for $20/month with my excellent dermatologist’s blessing. I’ve also done laser but let’s get that redness under control first.
Anon
Definitely find a different derm. I was recently diagnosed and mine put me on two months of doxycline which worked wonders, then minodizole for maintenance, which has also been working. The doc you went to was dismissive and plain wrong. None of the friends and family I know with rosacea went the laser route and have had success controlling, especially once you figure out the triggers.
Find a new derm and good luck!
Anne-on
That’s so odd that your derm didn’t give you any suggestions. A big +1 to Clementine and doing as little as possible and rebubilding your skin barrier. I’d suggest the following as a simple/cheap/low irritation starting point – de la cruz sulfur ointment, applied as a mask for 10-15 minutes max. It’s stinky but works really well for most to calm down rednes/’acne’. Starting to use an oil cleanser/micellar water to remove all makeup/sunblock/dirt and then cleansing with a low-PH cleanser (cetaphil/vanicream/Cosrx). I now use the Vanicream moisturizing lotion (blue pump bottle, in drugstores). It is cheap, has very few ingredients, and is designed for sensitive and irritated skin. I’d also avoid sun/heat/and other common triggers is you can (red wine/spicy food, intense exercise, etc.). It stinks but if I have more than 1 glass of red wine I get an eczema flush almost immediately.
Anonymous
Definitely find a new doctor! I also find not drinking helps, alcohol is a common trigger.
Anon
New derm, stat.
Anonymous
See a derm. They’ll try topicals and give you tips (some foods can even be triggers). If that doesn’t help they can do the laser options and they’ll have more experience.
Anon
No way! Get a new doc stat, hopefully some people here have recs. Try a woman doctor. I have rosacea and I did the laser – it definitely helps!! But that is in combo with Soolantra nightly. Good luck!
Anon
I also had an extremely dismissive dermatologists – two of them! So bizarre, as this is a common diagnosis, there are tons of things you can do to improve it. Maybe because they don’t make a lot of money from just advising you on things to try / avoid, and having you come back multiple times to discuss it. Dermatologists make a ton of money by doing procedures and most people with rosacea need many visits but few procedures.
But at least they should hand you a hand-out with advice. Bad doctors.
Agree with stopping all of your current skin care. Just get very basic cerave/cetaphil facial cleansers, lotions. Stop using all abrasives, face clothes, exfoliators… even stop tretinoin if you use it. Avoid hot or very cold water/air on your face. Wash it twice a day using only your finger tips and splashing tepid water. Moisturize immediately afterwards while it is still damp. Then add a sunblock like cerave. Only add one thing at a time to see how your skin reacts. Give it a few weeks to calm down.
Read some of the reviews online about triggers. Every person is different so you need to experiment to figure out what works for you. Take photos of days that are particularly bad/painful to bring to the doctor.
A good doctor should help you decide if you need to add one of the prescription meds. Yes, laser can help once you start to get tiny permanent visible damage (ex. blood vessels), but yes is pricey and often temporary. It is good to get a handle on it now as my understanding is the damage is cumulative over time.
No facials! No aggressive anything to your skin until you get a handle on things.
Anon
+1 to being gentle. OP, it sounds like you’ve been throwing the kitchen sink at your face to address the bumps. Stop all of that today. Be gentle! I recommended LRP below, but Vanicream is also excellent.
Anon
A lot of doctors have terrible bedside manners. I’d get a second opinion but consider that he might be right. Personally, I’ve found creams useless.
Anon
He might end up being right (the topicals don’t work for everyone), but they work for some people. If he explained how he knows that they won’t work for her, that would be more persuasive to me!
bird in flight
I agree with everyone above: get a new derm, and there are a lot of different OTC options to try. I have adult acne and it can actually be quite overwhelming since it’s really a game of experimentation to see what is going to work for you, and each experiment takes 2 weeks to three months to see if it’s actually going to work (for example I tried Spiro for adult acne for 6 months before my derm and I finally concluded it wasn’t the magic ticket it was for others). The experimentation can get really frustrating and draining, and you can be tempted to try too much at once which just makes it worse. I strongly suggest that you take all of the advice from above, start a new note in Notes (or whatever your phone notes app is) and list each thing to try that is suggested or you find in different internet advice. Start trying one at a time, and make a little note as to what happened when you tried it. That is going to help you and your new derm a lot, since (at least for me) it’s hard to remember over time what your skin reaction was to the different things. At the top of your list put finding a new derm. :)
Anonymous
I have rosacea too and find that diet really helps although no derm recommended this to me. Cutting out sugar and dairy had the most impact but your mileage may vary. When I was first diagnosed, I got a topical that really helped. I no longer need it because it’s mostly under control. Find a new derm who is not trying to fund a new boat for himself off laser treatment. There are lots of options and resources out there!
Anon
Take pics of your face. Send to curology. Get a rosacea custom bottle. Go straight for the prescription ingredients.
No hot water or sauna like conditions on your face!! See if you can figure out triggers (mine are alcohol and sometimes spicy food.) Try to avoid whatever makes you flush.
La Roche Posay Toleraine is an excellent drugstore line for sensitive rosacea prone skin. Don’t use exfoliants for now – just do gentle skincare until you see whether the prescription cream is working. Vitamin c can also be irritating to rosacea.
Best of luck.
Anne-on
Oh yes, good call on the Vitamin C. Lots of dermatologists/beauty brands love to push it as a magical cure all ingredient for everything but it just breaks me out (which I found out the hard way at 30 after buying the super $$ Skinceuticals vitamin C serum).
Anon
Oh I’m so bummed for you that that $$$ serum had to be wasted! It didn’t work for me either. :(
Anon
Damn I’m in m0d twice now – c u r o l o g y
Anon
I don’t have any recs but just wanted to add that I had a laser treatment done a few months ago and a second spot treatment done this week. I have a noticed a lot of improvement in the texture and tone of my skin. My pores are invisible. Makeup glides on smoother and I am finally ok even going out without makeup (or just with a tinted sunscreen). I had mine done at a facial plastic surgeon and preferred her to the dermatologist I saw also.
Anonymous
Spouse just had the laser treatment. He was advised to stay out of direct sunlight after treatment until it healed (10 to 14 days). Just an FYI if you’re planning a vacation or something.
Sunshine81
Sorry to hear the derm was dismissive. I have type 1 rosacea (redness, flushing) but no bumps; bumps are usually considered type 2 rosacea.
Topicals may help, as noted by others. I used metronidazole for years and also tried azealic acid. The results were really minimal.
Personally I’ve had the most success with laser, specifically BBL. My treatment was done at a medspa and it covered my cheeks, nose, and chin. It immediately reduced the redness and flushing and eliminated many of the small broken capillaries. I had two treatments a week or two apart and the results lasted 2+ years. The laser itself feels a bit like a rubber band being snapped on your skin. The nurse applied a cooling/numbing gel beforehand and the pain only lasted a second. I saw results just hours after the treatment. My plan is to have BBL every few years, as needed.
Anon
How much did it cost?
Anon
This varies person to person. I had BBL (which I had to tell my daughter several times was not Brazilian Butt Lift) for $2500 for three sessions. I noticed very little long term effect.
In the past I’ve had v beam laser that was much more effective but left me little purple dots (bruises) for every burst capillary. The results lasted far longer but eventually the capillaries come back. With BBL very few of them went away in the first place.
I’m going back to v beam this fall.
Anonymous
New doc asap.
I have pustular rosacea, wtih redness, and low dosage oral antibiotics is very effective on the pustules and inflammation. Soolantra is also good (ivermectine). I have never had luck with azelaic acid or topical cream antibiotics.
Good skincare is key, I like balm cleansers and 1 % BHA.
For redness, I like Erborian green color correcting cc cream.
Long term you need to find your triggers. Some are easy, like stress and sleep. Others are more individual. Food and drink are common, like gluten (celiacs and rosacea go together), sugars and dairy. I can’t have potato chips or atrificial sweeteners.
Anon
+1 my doc wanted to put me on doxycyline but unfortunately, I’m allergic to that class of drugs. I know there’s strong evidence in their favor.
I posted about c u r o l o g y. My doc wanted to prescribe me a compound cream of ivermectin, metronidazole, and azelaic acid, but it was going to be $400-ish out of pocket for me. I showed her what c u r o l o g y could provide and she was enthusiastic about it.
anon
Hopefully not here too late, but wanted to recommend DermWellesley (great practice – all women I believe).
H13
Does anyone have the Hyundai Ionic 6? Can you share what you like and don’t like about it? Caveats?
Anon
I would not buy any model of Hyundai or Kia right now due to the thefts. Even if that model isn’t one of the impacted ones, it still feels risky.
Vicky Austin
I had no idea about this – how terrifying!
Anon
This is unnecessary fearmongering.
Number one, Ioniqs aren’t on the list of cars that lacked engine immobilizers. A 2-second Google search would have revealed that, had you bothered.
Number two, in the affected vehicles, Hyundai is patching the software in cars that allowed the theft problem. Was it completely boneheaded for them to ship cars without the engine immobilizer enabled? Absolutely, but they’re now fixing those cars and you can bet that anything they ship in the future – like the 2024 Ioniqs – will have the immobilizers in them in excellent working order.
We own a 2015 Santa Fe and our appointment for the engine immobilizer enablement is next week. We have owned four Hyundais over our driving lifetime; my brother has owned two, my parents have owned one for over 10 years. While I’m not happy that Hyundai screwed this up so badly, saying that it “feels risky” to buy a Hyundai sounds like straight-up nonsense to me. Our Hyundais have been rock-solid cars that didn’t need much in terms of maintenance or repair. We’d gladly buy another one and before I bought my Lexus this year, I was looking at the Ioniqs and if I could have found one where I wouldn’t have had to pay to ship it cross-country, or wait 10 months to get it, I would have bought one.
All car companies have had recalls – some more severe than others, like when many vehicle manufacturers installed airbags that killed people in accidents, or had tires that failed catastrophically – and while this situation isn’t great, obviously, it’s no reason to write off Hyundai entirely as an option. Do you work for GM, or something? That would explain your statement, IMO.
Anonymous
In my neighborhood, the thieves are young kids who are blindly targeting any Hyundai or Kia for theft. They are not googling for the model and model year and its features before breaking the window, breaking the steering column, etc. When the car isn’t actually stolen, sometimes it is vandalized further. This is a near-daily occurrence. Just because you are not aware of it does not mean it is not a genuine concern now. The advice of local police has been to sell these makes immediately and buy something else. They can’t keep up.
I have no direct or indirect affiliation with any car maker.
Anon
+1
I’m the anon who first posted about this issue. Even if it’s not a model / year that has this problem, thieves aren’t doing their research. They’ll try to steal it anyway and end up vandalizing it in the process. For that reason I wouldn’t get any Hyundai or Kia.
Anon
That’s a weirdly defensive response. It’s great you love your car. It’s also true that Kias are theft targets. I’m a different poster than the person who originally said this, but I see this happening on my neighborhood Next Door page just about every day.
Anon
*Kias and Hyundais
Anon
One of my very good friends had his Hyundai stolen TWICE! The police actually recovered it the first time and it was stolen again about a week later. That’s certainly soured my perception of the company, though I’m not sure if the defect has been fixed in newer/different models.
Anonymous
Agree. In some states, you can’t even get car insurance for these vehicles anymore. I have a Kia that is not one with the issues, but I’m still expecting to find it stolen at some point or window broken.
Anon
Sorry anon 10:08, but your response is the one that is over the top and sounds like you work for Hyundai! I think that is a perfectly valid widespread enough thing to at least bring to a prospective Hyundai buyer’s attention if they had no idea. Then they can go and do their own research and make their own risk tolerance decision.
I have no skin in this debate, btw.
Anon
But if the car in question isn’t affected by the issue, then it is not affected by the issue?
Anon
It’s still relevant information about the company that makes them that OP can decide to care about or not.
Anonymous
As someone else, pointed out, teenager stealing these cars are checking model numbers to confirm they are the right ones. They are breaking windows and then figuring out that they can’t steal some of them. So that means all kias annd hyundais are affected.
Anonymous
“NOT checking model numbers. . .
Lily
I was considering that car and ended up getting the VW I.D.4 instead. So far I love it. And it’s cheaper.
H13
Oh, nice. I will take a look!
Anonymous
Ooh I am looking at the I.D.4. How’s your charging situation?
Clementine
Have an I.D.4. Love it.
Obviously you’re probably asking about technical things, but… it has heated seats with a built in massage feature.
Vicky Austin
Shut up. Want.
Lily
I charged it at work for free, so I didn’t get a charger for my house. The dealership also gave us free charging for 3 years at public charging stations but I haven’t had to use it.
H13
Does anyone have the Hyundai Ionic 6? Can you share what you like and don’t like about it? Any caveats?
anon
TW: pregnancy loss
I am miscarrying at almost 9 weeks. This is my second loss at this stage, but the first was a missed miscarriage that showed no signs of passing on its own, so I had a D&C. This m/c has started on its own, but right now I’m just having light bleeding. I am seeing my doctor later today, but any advice from those who’ve been there on what I should expect would be helpful. I usually have very light periods and use a cup, and I’m guessing I probably need to go get heavy pads?
Vicky Austin
No advice, just want to say I’ll be thinking of you and hoping you’re surrounded by love and support.
Anon
So sorry for your loss. You may need a D and C anyway. It’s pretty common for the miscarriage to not be complete even if you bleed.
Anon
I’m so sorry for your loss.
Yes, I’d recommend getting heavy flow pads and starting ibuprofen right now for future pain control (cramping). It can take a few days so consider taking today and tomorrow off work.
anon.
I’m sorry this is happening to you. I agree with this. Lots of pads and painkillers in case of cramping or general discomfort. For me the bleeding lasted a long time – maybe a week or 10 days. And in reference to 9:37, the doctor had me come in to have my levels checked to make sure they were down to near zero after about 2 weeks (to ensure passage of all of the material).
busybee
I’ve had 3 around that stage and physically it’s basically just a slightly heavy period.
Seafinch
So sorry, it’s tough. I have had seven losses and agree it’s been like a heavy period. Only the 13 week was very heavy. While mine took up to five weeks, they all went on their own and completely.
Anon for this
I’m so sorry this is happening. I’d make a swing by Target or Walmart and pick up some cotton pads (overnights), some disposable period/depends underwear (same section), a pack or two of large granny panties (cotton), lots of little snacks and things you might like. I’d also get a heating pad for cramps if you don’t have one already. The biggest issue I experienced was that even with thick pads, since there was a lot of bleeding, there would be leaks, especially at night (and sometimes it would come in waves). Your OB will likely not recommend a D&C if you’ve started on your own, so do ask for pain pills (Tramadol, etc.) to help you at home.
Anon
+1 to the disposable period underwear. There’s a lot of bleeding, more than what anyone prepared me for and those worked the best for the first day or two. Also, +1 to the pain medication. There is zero reason to do while in pain physically as well as emotionally. Be easy with yourself and I’m so sorry you are going through this.
emcee
I don’t have any advice but I’m so sorry.
Anon
I had a missed miscarriage that my doctor gave me the two pills for, so not exactly like your experience, but it was about 2-3 days of heavy bleeding and cramping for me. I basically stayed near or in the bathroom for two full days. I made the mistake of going to work on the third day and I was definitely not ready so I went home early. Allow yourself enough time to fully recover. Heating pads can be helpful and Advil as someone mentioned. Very sorry for your loss.
anon
I am so very sorry for your loss. I don’t have great advice because I had a D&C, but you have all my sympathy. It’s so hard.
Anon
I’m so sorry. For my second miscarriage which started with bleeding my doc wanted me to bleed into a sieve (when on the toilet) so that I could catch any products of conception and bring them in. It seems gross but it helped them know the miscarriage was complete. Hugs to you.
Anan
Yes, definitely be prepared for your body to expel something. I’ve had three first trimester miscarriages and each time my body expelled the embryo before I could get to the doctor. I wasn’t prepared for that and it was really hard on me emotionally.
I’m so sorry. I hope you have the time to rest and be kind to yourself.
Anon
How do I get a weird smell from the dry cleaner out of my clothes? I tried a new cleaner and my clothes all have this unpleasant musty smell
Anne-on
Can you hang them outside for a bit? If that’s not feasible cheap vodka in a spray bottle will work wonders – I’d test it in an inconspicious place first if the fabrics are delicate. I learned that trick from a theater major friend in college and it’s truly magic.
emcee
+1. Cheap vodka and sunshine work on a lot of weird smells.
Anon
This happened once for me. Sometimes it improves with another wash. But when it happened to my down pillows I had to throw them away.
Anon
Thanks for the rain poncho recommendations from yesterday. I had to give my good raincoat to my daughter today and now a Cleverhood Rover is on its way to me. I liked the spendier model, but I feel like I’ll never regret the Rover.
Anonymous
super anon for this: if you’ve had a laser treatment Brazilian (p__ hair) – how close were they able to get? still some hair in the very center/l_bia that bugs me
Anonymous
Have you done the full 6-8 sessions?
Anonymous
I’m coming up on #6. Just not sure how much they can safely do the laser “in there” because the type of skin changes
Anonymous
So you are saying they haven’t zapped that part yet? I would give it the full 8 sessions of zapping that location.
go for it
Go back and get it adjusted. If it was to be full removal, then the servicer is
to correct it as that is what the payment was for.
Anon
I think my brothers girlfriend is completely fantastic and want to buy her something for when I see her again. She likes getting gifts and I like her, so would love suggestions. I was thinking maybe a Sephora gift set (she likes make up), and maybe $30? $50? Not too much since I don’t want to make a random gift seem weird. Any other recommendations??
Cb
I’d some something a bit niche, like K-Beauty stuff? Rather than a generic Sephora set?
Anon
Are you marking an occasion or are you getting her a gift just because you like her? If it’s the latter, it comes off weird regardless of how much you spend.
Anon
I kind of agree, unless you see something and specifically think of her (and it’s small). I think $50 is too much in this category–more along the lines of $15 or less. I’m a gift-giver, too.
Anon
Agreed.
Anon
Same here, and it can feel very awkward to get an out of the blue gift too. I’d keep it to something light like chocolates you picked up at that great place that afternoon. Also a gift giver here who loves a good present.
Anon
+1. Unless it’s “you mentioned you love bubble tea and I saw this fun new flavor at the checkout,” it’s a little weird.
anonish
I think this is what makes it not-weird. “Hey, I remember you liked X brand – I was at Sephora and thought of you” or “Oh I love X brand of nail polish so I picked one up for you”
Anonymous
I think this is still weird for her brother’s new girlfriend.
Anon
I don’t know of anyone that does stuff like that, but maybe it’s more common in your circles.
Anonymous
I agree. I like gifts, but would think it really strange for someone I just met to give me a $50 gift. This seems like the time for a very small remembrance, along the lines of, “Hey, you said you liked cookies, so when I was at X bakery today and knew I’d be seeing you this evening, I picked up this cookie for you.”
Anon
Yea I think it’s a really nice idea but unless there is some occasion, it could be weird.
Anonymous
I think something in the $30ish range seems appropriate for a “just because” gift. If it’s too expensive it might make her uncomfortable. I also like buying people little gifts. It doesn’t have to be grand, just something that says “I was thinking about you”.
Anon
This seems well-intentioned but a bit intense. You (hopefully) have a lifetime of birthdays and holidays ahead, you have plenty of opportunities to give her gifts then.
Anon
I am a gift giver too! I think maybe something consummable might be less awkward if there is no occasion for it – like a treat from a nice coffee shop or bakery. You could say you were there and picked something up for her and also slip in a Starbucks gift card to go with it or something like that? Or if you wanted to do Sephora, maybe one product (not a gift set) and you can say you were getting one for yourself and thought she would like one too. Anyway, that is very nice of you!
Anon
If either of my SILs gave me a random Starbucks gift card for no reason (like, “hey I got this from work but I don’t drink coffee” kind of reason) I would honestly think that was weird. Like, are they saying I can’t afford my own coffee? It’s hard for me to even imagine how they would present it to me without it being weird!
Not to rain on parades, just being honest.
Anon
+1 cash/gift card for no reason is VERY weird to me and I would wonder if they thought I was struggling to pay my bills.
I think what Cat suggested, like if you get some fun new beauty product and you share some of it with her, is fine. Or picking up a physical gift in the $10 range. But don’t do overboard with physical gifts and I would definitely avoid cash and gift cards.
Vicky Austin
Really? I can totally imagine texting my SIL and saying, “Hey, I got a starbucks card but you know me, I don’t drink coffee hardly ever, do you want it?” and it not being weird at all (regardless of whether she said yes!).
Anon
Sorry I probably didn’t write that right. That is like the only way I can see it not being weird.
If she picked me up a Starbucks and gave me a gift card along with it for no reason, that would be weird.
Vicky Austin
Ohhh, I’m sorry, yes! Agree with you.
bird in flight
Get yourself the big size of the Sol de Janeiro Brazilian Bum Bum Cream, and then get her a mini size. Tell her that you’re obsessed with the smell of this new bum bum cream and you got her the mini size one to try since you love it so much.
This would work for me because I am, in fact, obsessed with the smell of the bum bum cream and gave the mini versions to my friends for Christmas since I love it so much.
https://www.sephora.com/product/brazilian-bum-bum-cream-P406080?skuId=1802420
Cat
imo this type of random gift is something that should be like $5-$10. like, sharing a mask from a pack you bought yourself.
Anon
Sorry but I’m going to echo the chorus that it is hard for me to imagine a scenario where giving her something like this for no reason would end up being awkward.
Anon
Give her a tiny little easy care houseplant like a succulent. And I mean tiny, not an elaborate arrangement.
Anon
Ooh I like this idea. Mainly because I want someone to give me a succulent haha.
JD
What about getting grocery store flowers (Trader Joe’s level) or something from a farmer’s market depending on when you’re seeing her? I would find a small bouquet thoughtful and charming, and you can present it as a spur of the moment thing. Similar to the posters recommending baked goods.
Anon
I have a lot of sisters and cousins… It’s normal in my world to give or receive a duplicate of something someone bought which they wanted to share. That does not come across as weird to me. One version of this is “do you like it? here’s one for you.”
I would save something like a Sephora gift set for a gift giving occasion.
Jane
Hello please help me with something that I think is a perfect question for this board! I’m going to an IMPORTANT business meeting for a week to a hot country (no religious dress codes or concerns) but while the meetings are in air conditioned rooms we do have plans to hang out outside here and there. Men will all be in suits and ties. I’m struggling to decide what to wear because I want to look all “executive presence” but I’m 5 feet, apple shaped and size 14 so feel very not, especially without my standard tools of wool suit etc. please dress me! Links very very appreciated.
Cb
I think you need a really polished shirt dress?
Anon
+1 came here to suggest a shirtdress. They came in clutch back in my conference-going days.
Anon
This is kind of pricey, but it’s available in a 14 petite: https://www.macys.com/shop/product/lauren-ralph-lauren-petite-fit-flare-shirtdress?ID=13737691&CategoryID=55596&isDlp=true&isDlp=true
And check out the rest of the LRL separates at Macy’s. It looks like you’d be able to put together some outfits that you won’t sweat to death in.
Anon
Ooh and it’s linen. Perfect for hot weather.
Anon
But not perfect for a meeting where the men are in suits and OP wants executive presence.
Anon
That reads very casual to me. Not equivalent in formality to a man’s suit.
Vicky Austin
Quince has a nice linen one:
https://www.quince.com/women/linen-dress?color=black&gender=women&tracker=collection_page__women%2Fdresses__Midi%20Dresses__5
and BRF has a bunch right now, will reply with links!
Anonymous
That’s a perfectly nice dress, but it’s not appropriate for an important meeting where men will be in suits and ties.
Anon
+1. Also looks pretty low cut for work, so it would require a camisole which might ruin the look.
No Face
I own this dress and love it, but it is a low cut casual dress. Not all appropriate for a suit and tie business meeting.
BB
Look for summer weight wool or linen blend (which prevents wrinkles) suits. Wool does not necessarily equal heavy and hot. My favorite summer blazer is a blend of linen/cotton/wool. Also make sure that whatever you wear under it, whether it’s a shell or a button down, is something you are comfortable wearing without the jacket so you can take it off for most of the outside time. If you are doing a skirt, get cooling shorts under them. If you’re doing pants, get flowy pants. Try to find shoes for you that you can wear with thin socks to prevent sweaty feet.
Anon
Came here to say this. Lightweight wool is a thing and is awesome. I frequently reach for very, very light wool tanks as an undershirt under whatever I’m wearing (a linen dress today) particularly because it handles the freezing inside/roasting outside issue so well (I’m in Florida).
Lightweight wool suits are also a good option.
Anon
If the men are in suits and you want executive presence, wear a suit. I strongly disagree with the shirt dress suggestion.
Jane
are there specific hot weather ones you recommend? I bought a linen suit and it is making me look frump-ier
Anon
The men are wearing wool suits. Wear a tropical weight wool suit.
Anon
https://mmlafleur.com/collections/suiting
Anon
https://www.nordstrom.com/s/boss-jabina-stretch-tropical-wool-jacket/4014250?siteid=J84DHJLQkR4-LEIneKI0iAUdNBYjfTO.JQ&color=BLACK&utm_source=rakuten&utm_medium=affiliate_shopping&utm_campaign=J84DHJLQkR4&utm_content=1&utm_term=814807&utm_channel=low_nd_affiliates&sp_source=rakuten&sp_campaign=J84DHJLQkR4
Anon
comment in m-d, hugo boss makes tropical wool separates. I’m looking at the Jabina jacket.
Anon
+1. It would have to be a helluva polished shirt dress. I could see that in the regular course of various conferences, but not in one where the word important is in all caps.
Senior Attorney
I tend to agree. Maybe a seersucker suit?
Anonymous
I concur. If men are in suits, you should wear either a full suit or the dress/jacket combo. Blazers are your friend. Wear comfortable sleeved shirts underneath so that when you’re outside, you can remove the blazer and still look polished.
Ann Taylor has some fun lighter linen weave suits right now that might be very comfortable.
Anon
Suit with a sheath dress? Skirt suit? You can take the jacket off outside.
KP
Hi. I’m your size and shape. I suggest a black sleeveless top. Here are some suggestions https://www.halsbrook.com/shop/tops/sleeveless.html?c=1 Wear this with a gray suit and a statement accessory of your choice. Black because it will cover nips and rolls and won’t show sweat.
KP
Here’s a possibility for a gray suit.https://bananarepublicfactory.gapfactory.com/browse/product.do?pid=804132071&vid=3&tid=bfpl000032&kwid=1&ap=7&gad=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw4s-kBhDqARIsAN-ipH0zeRFgfio_DPDS6jjMRZVsiXvl6tpv_VR0CkqtWhWw2SfdwLyDVVgaAoCXEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds#pdp-page-content
Anon
Just keep in mind all climate decisions (the extreme temp of the air conditioning to the amount of time outside) will be catered to the biggest common denominator which I’m guessing is the men in full suits, who tend to run hotter than women anyway. If they are in a full suit and you are in a short sleeve shirt dress, they will blast the AC to accommodate them and you will be freezing (at least, I would be). Dress more for that than what the outside will be, because they will be in a similarly overdressed situation outside.
Anon
If you’re in a short sleeve shirt dress when the men are wearing suits, they will assume you’re the assistant/secretary.
Anon
I was thinking this. If I were OP, I would just go ahead and wear a lightweight suit because indoors this time of year is generally 30-40 degrees cooler than the outside, thanks to over-aggressive air conditioning. They keep the air conditioning in the c-suite building at my company at around 62, for real. I have a meeting there next week and I’m going to wear a dress and a blazer and the only time I won’t be freezing is when I’m walking from my car to the meeting room and back.
Anon
I would do sheath dress + blazer + heels. You can take the blazer off when outdoors to keep cool.
Anything without a blazer will be too casual if the men are in suits. Definitely not shirt dress territory.
BRF has a linen-cotton sheath dress. I have it and wore it to work this week with a blazer and looked very polished and felt cool.
Two caveats for the dress: if you’re tall it will be too short. I’m 5’3 and it was a good length on me. It is als right across the hips but very roomy in the chest. You need the right proportions to make this work.
Anon
Would seersucker work wherever you’re going? You can get a seersucker sheath dress with a blazer. Or pants, but I’d do a dress for the heat. I live in the southern US, so ignore me if that’s totally weird in other places.
Anon
She is not going on a beach vacation.
Anon
Seersucker is not appropriate for an important meeting.
Anon
+1
Anon
In my area it is! People wear seersucker to court and all sorts of other formal occasions.
Anonymous
You need a sleeveless or short-sleeved tropical wool sheath dress with a matching blazer. Take off the blazer outdoors.
Anonymous
You can wear a tropical wool suit and you will be fine. I live in Brazil and that’s what me and my husband wear to work every day. It is hot outside, obviously, but it’s not that bad. You could also wear a sheath dress with a blazer, but the AC will be blasting if all men are wearing suits.
Meredith
We have just spent 4 weeks in a hot country. TBH I think you need to wear a suit or dress+blazer for Executive presence. The thing that actually seemed to make the biggest difference in how put together people appeared was how much they sweated and how it impacted hair and make up. I learned the hard way that ‘no-sweat’ everywhere you can tolerate it is your friend, start it now. So is setting spray. Also as someone who who normally wears my hair styled down, the tools to get it up and off my face and neck made a huge difference.
South american girl
I’m a tax lawyer in Brazil (so stuffy and conservative) and I think, in South America at least, work dress codes for women in warm weather are a lot more relaxed than for men, and wearing a black, grey, or navy suit in the summer would read like you’re an admin. Seersucker suiting (and white linen, to a lesser extent) is also not a thing here and would be odd and matronly (of course it may be different in other tropical countries). I prefer skirts in hot weather, whatever shape you like from knee length to midi, and a crisp white shirt or other blouse with some structure, if you don’t want to mess with buttons. If you’d rather do dress pants, add either a structured top sans blazer or something sleeveless with a jacket, remove it for going outside and no one will think anything of your bare shoulders. If you like suiting, something with a bold color could work and give you executive presence, but probably not in law. A sheath dress and blazer work too, it’s just not super current. No matter what, don’t wear panty-hose.
Anon
I feel like this question has been asked, but where can I go to get a modern, wool blend suit these days? I have an upcoming meeting where I need a fairly conservative, classic suit and all of mine are pre Covid and don’t fit well anymore, or are not very current. I prefer dress plus blazer but am also fine with pants or a skirt. I looked at Hugo boss and theory but didn’t love anything. I’m mid-40s, size 4 with a small pooch I try to hide. Budget flexible but probably up to $1K or so.
Anon
I love Veronica Beard and they’ve got a great sale going on right now. Gorgeous blazers, probably matching or coordinating pants. I’d opt for a great blazer and separates for a big meeting over a suit suit.
Anon
Banana Republic (fits me; usually black and navy are on offer year round)
Lafayette148, not sure if on offer now vs linen, does not work for my shape
Boss (no petites in what I like but lovely)
Anne-on
Just getting back from a work trip to London and I popped into the Fold for this request (proper suit plus a few power dresses for a conference where I’m speaking). I bought a ‘ultimate wool’ suit – the Belmont jacket plus the wide leg trousers but they have other pieces as well that coordinate with it. Comes in Navy or Black, though apparently they’ll have another fall color coming in soon.
Formerly Lilly
Brooks Brothers. Quality is not what it used to be, but still acceptable. I’d say comparable to Theory or better. Also, don’t sleep on Ann Taylor’s more classic offerings. Suits have functional buttonholes on the sleeves. Construction is good. Fabric could be a little better. You can put theses suits through the washer on cold delicate. Hang the coat to dry then steam to finish; pants can go through the dryer on delicate. Suit coat can go through dryer in a pinch but I wouldn’t regularly as I think the interfacing has the possibility of getting wonky.
anon
St. Johns, Akris Punto and Etro. You might blow the budget a bit, but there is a reason why they are all mainstays. If you have an outlet near you, great place to look or Saks/Neimans. For more current brands, Victoria Beckham has great suits, as does Michael Kors. I’ve been meh on the quality of Veronica Beard lately – it seems like they’ve expanded a lot and its not the same as a couple years ago. For a bit cheaper, Elie Tahari still has good options and LK Bennett is great if you are honest about your size (cough, no vanity sizing).
Anon
Theory.
Anonymous
If you’re 5’6″ or shorter and are open to a nice synthetic crepe rather than wool blend, I recommend checking out Nora Gardner. I think that brand excels at the jacket plus dress suit, though it’s all a little too short for me (5’9″).
Anonymous
Rebecca Taylor or Élie Tahari.
Anon
Max Mara?
Kelsey
Does anyone here regularly use some kind of shine enhancing, volumizing and/or heat protectant product on her hair before blow drying it and if so, would you recommend the product you use? I’ve been trying different things, but haven’t yet found anything I like enough to buy twice. I have thin, slightly wavy hair that I wash and blow dry with a round brush every morning. Thanks!
Anon
My stylist told me that anything you put in your hair before blowing it out acts as a heat protector so I just use my regular products and it works like a charm.
Anon
My stylist told me that anything you put in your hair before blowing it out acts as a heat protector so I just use my regular products and it works like a charm.
Anon
This is good to know – I use volumizing spray and mousse when I blow out my hair but always feel bad that I forget to use heat protector, lol
Vicky Austin
I like the Bumble and bumble invisible oil one when I’m willing to splurge on B&b products (anybody else hearing Tom Haverford in their heads?), and I also like the Redken anti-snap leave-in in the blue bottle.
Anne-on
I like the ‘its a 10’ products, the heat protectant spray works well, and I use a tiny tiny bit of the olaplex oil for shine and softness once my hair is already dry.
Anonymous
I use Opalex 6. I got a sample size and loved it, but didn’t buy a full size because all the hype of the influencers. I couldn’t find anything that worked better so I caved and bought a full size. My hair is corse and dry and this helps make it manageable.
anon
+1 love Olaplex #s 0, 3 and 6
Formerly Lilly
Cream: Oribe Supershine Moisturizing Cream.
Spray: Amika Bombshell Blowout Spray
My stylist said to beware of putting any product with alcohol in it on your hair and then hitting it with high heat. She said it’s a good way to fry your hair. Some blowout sprays will add alcohol to speed drying.
Elle
+1 for the Amika spray! I have thin fine hair and it’s the only heat protectant that doesn’t make my hair flat after one day
Anonymous
I use the Olaplex system (6, 7, and 9) and really like it. Sometimes I just use number 9 and it works great for my hair.
Anonymous
+1! Olaplex 9 is my hg. I used It’s a 10 for years, but then my hair started getting a bit greasy and weighed down. I’ve been using Olaplex 9 for almost a year, and my hair is shiny and bouncy whether it’s air-dried or blow-dried. It’s a heat protectant and shine serum in one, so you only need one product. I’m still on my first bottle – a little bit goes a long way. I have bra-length hair and a pea size is all I need. FYI I have East Asian hair that tends to show split ends and frizziness easily, but that all went away with this product. Not an ad lol.
anon
Does balayage look good on straight hair? I have medium blonde hair and I love the natural look of balayage, but everything I see on social media has women with beach waves. Realistically I am NOT going to be curling my hair daily so I know my hair will not look like that. Is balayage worth it for straight hair or should I be considering a different technique?
Anon
Regular highlights look grown out much quicker on straight hair than on wavy hair. Balayage is the way to go, otherwise the line of demarcation is too stark. This is coming from a straight haired person.
DC Inhouse Counsel
I have straight hair and went into my salon a few months ago with balayage inspo photos and my stylist ended up doing “babylights” instead, because she said it worked better for my hair texture. I loved how it turned out and I’m going back for a refresh this week.
anon
Yes. I also have medium blonde hair (used to be very blonde when I was younger) and my hair is fine and straight. Depending on the day it has zero natural body or a slight amount of natural body. It doesn’t look streaky and grows out beautifully. If you’re not into frequent hair appointments to get your highlights maintained (I most certainly am not), then balayage is a great choice. Curling it or loose waves seem to be a very popular styling choice because it just looks so beautiful and has that “wow factor” for when the stylist turns your chair around, but it’s definitely not necessary for balayage to look good.
Anonymous
I have wavy hair but often wear it straight and balayage has been great for my hair no matter the texture of the day. My colorist always sends me home with straight hair after service.
bird in flight
Definitely looks good. I did balayage for a few years and at least 50% wore my hair straight.
I just searched in Pinterest for “straight blonde balayage” and it came up with all kinds of example pictures.
I really love this:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/211174967689188/
Anon
That’s what I do on my straight, fine hair and I think it looks good.
Anon
I think they show it on wavy hair online becuase it camouflages any flaws in their technique. It looks good on straight hair, just don’t go to a junior stylist.
Anon8
Absolutely. I get balayage on my straight hair twice a year and I’ve had people compliment it when it’s four months grown out. If you go to someone who’s good at it, it looks very natural.
Anon
Hi! PIP/Toxic workplace poster here. Had a PIP meeting yesterday and to no one’s surprise – it did not go well for me; to me it was to the point of absurd regarding what was (to me) being nitpicked on/discussed. Sigh. Our next checkpoint is in 3 weeks.
I’m literally only staying to collect my check and get a shot at a severance package – does anyone have any tips on what I can do to put myself in the best position to do so?
I did share the documentation re toxic workplace/things my boss has said over the last ~3 years, and was told it was shared with HR, but there haven’t been any other updates past that.
I’m feeling very, very low, so please be kind. I’m trying to take care of myself and exit with grace and really want to figure out the best path forward. Recovery from this and re-gaining confidence is going to be an uphill climb for me.
Thank you all for all the wisdom and support so far.
Anon
HR is there for the employer, you can’t expect them to be an advocate for you. If you feel you’ve been discriminated against, consult a lawyer. But lots of toxic workplaces aren’t discriminatory or illegal.
Anon
This. HR is there to make sure they don’t wrongfully terminate someone who has grounds to sue for discrimination. Unless your boss’s behavior looks like discrimination against a protected class this documentation won’t make them reconsider firing you. At best it will help identify a pattern if multiple workers of the same race, gender, etc. report your boss in the future.
I agree with the commenter who said severance pay is unrealistic. Spend all your energy job hunting and focus on how happy you’ll be once this boss is out of your life.
Anon
I feel like you have been posting about this an awful lot. There’s nothing wrong with that, but it suggests this is consuming you. If it’s at all possible financially, I would just leave now. Your happiness (not to mention your dignity) is worth something too.
OP
Thank you – yes it’s really hard for me, and my partner is out of town on business for a long stretch so I’m also doing a lot of parenting alone (with help from babysitter, family members, etc.)
It is possible for me to quit financially but I struggle with it for all of the reasons one can imagine – I don’t like the idea of not earning money/contributing to household financially (even though DH’s salary is fine for us to live on), this job was a big opportunity for me on a few levels and I’m genuinely sad about how things are trending, and this is wildly making me question my ambition and the role of a job in my life, which is very uncomfortable for me…
I know the only way out is through but the “through” feels very hard right now. I’m grateful this is a job I’m complaining about and not anything else.
Anon
If your partner’s salary is fine to live on and you have young kids, I would 100% take some time off to figure out your next steps and enjoy your kids. I’m not on a PIP quite yet, but things seem to be headed there and I’m looking forward to taking 6-12 months off before my next job. It’s an immense privilege to not have to work for money!
Anon
If you can afford to quit, I guess the other way out is to quit right now?
Why go through more abuse? Is staying or leaving going to make you question your ambition and the role of a job in your life more? If it’s truly a toxic workplace, staying would be worse for me and my confidence personally than quitting and putting up with more.
Anon
You have always contributed for your family and you will again in the future, but sticking with a job where the writing is on the wall so clearly is doing you a big disservice. How can you bring your best self to the family if it is bringing you down this much?
Vicky Austin
I have to agree with this. Contributing takes many, many forms.
Anon
I completely understand leaving for a severance. I’d do a consultation with an employee side employment attorney and see if they think you could negotiate the severance now.
Anon
This is the answer I was going to post.
Also do not discount the value of telling future employers that you left of your own volition.
No Face
+1 talk to an attorney and let her handle the severance negotiations for you!
Anon
That’s not the only way out. You could quit today and then you’d be done tormenting yourself.
anonshmanon
If your family finances can take the hit, what would you advise your spouse to do in your situation? Would you tell them it’s OK for you to be the sole breadwinner temporarily, if it protects their mental health?
Anon
I’m sorry you’re going through this. At this point, I would assume a severance package isn’t going to happen. They’re being kind giving you a PIP (translate, time to get a new job) instead of just terminating you. I don’t think sharing any documentation about toxicity will help you. The narrative is you’re the problem, and that probably was perceived as defensive. Focus on getting a new job! Don’t take this to heart. Clearly this isn’t the place for you.
Anon
+1 I’ve never heard of cash severance when terminated for a PIP, unfortunately. The paid employment during the PIP period *is* the severance.
Anon
Actually a lot of employers still give them in that circumstance but it’s very regional.
Anon
I don’t think “a lot” of employers give severance when firing for cause (without lawyer involvement). Some maybe, but it’s definitely not a widespread thing.
Severance is normally a goodwill gesture for satisfactory employees who are being let go for reasons beyond their control (an economic downturn, a merger making their job redundant, etc.). It’s not given to employees fired for cause unless the employer fears litigation and offers the severance payment as a way of avoiding litigation.
Anon
Okay. 30 year CA employment lawyer here and all my clients do in this scenario. As I said it is regional, so if OP is in a state where employment claims aren’t worth much she might be SOL but talk to a lawyer.
Anon
I agree that a severance package is very, very unlikely and that finding another job should be OP’s priority.
Anon
You’re not going to get a severance package. If that’s your only reason for staying, I’d just quit now.
Explorette
I think the sooner you leave, the better. Put all your energy into finding a new job, and if you can, take a few weeks off before starting. If you are on a PIP, they will not offer you a severance package. Companies give severance packages when they are letting someone go without cause, which is not the case here (whether fair to you or not). They are going through the PIP process and all the nitpicking so they have evidence to support firing you. They will keep stringing you along until they feel they have enough of a paper trail. So if that’s the only reason you are putting up with this, don’t. You will eventually recover from this! But first you need to get out.
Anon
This. Just get out asap. That should be your number 1 focus. Seriously apply to like 3 jobs per day even if it means slacking off since you’re getting fired anyway.
Anon
Yep. The sooner you get out, the sooner you can start to recover. I know half a dozen people who have quit with nothing lined up and found a great job in six months or less.
Anon
Keep in mind there are differences in “cause”. Your employer may be thinking they have “cause” to dismiss you for incompetence, bad fit, tardiness etc., but unless you’ve done something criminally wrong like embezzlement, they will probably not be able to cite “cause” in a legal sense to interfere with your unemployment benefits claim. I would just stick it out while looking for a new job so you can claim unemployment when they finally let you go.
Anon
Isn’t this state dependent? In my state you definitely do not have to have committed a crime to be ineligible for unemployment benefits.
anon
You aren’t going to get a severance package if you are on a PIP. Apply for other jobs. People get severance when they are laid off, not fired for cause. If you don’t find a job quickly, you need to weigh resigning so that you can say you left versus being fired, or staying on if in your state leaving of your own accord will affect your ability to collect unemployment.
Anon
I think the distinction of being able to say you left vs being fired is an important one.
Anon
+1
Senior Attorney
If it were me, I’d rather quit than be fired. And I agree that it’s extremely unlikely that you’ll get a severance package if/when they terminate you at the end of the PIP.
Anon
Seriously. Walking away from a job that you quit is going to be a lot easier to explain to future employers than getting fired.
JD
Agreed. As a hiring manager, it should be fairly easy to spin walking away from a job and taking a small amount of time off for your family. Getting fired raises a red flag. It’s better not to have start interviews with obvious red flags. Even if you avoid disclosing, it may impact your mental space.
Anon
I always thought it was harder to get a ne w job while you’re unemployed versus looking while still employed.
Anon
But she’s probably not going to find anything in the next few weeks or however long it is until they give her the axe.
Anon
Yes, all else being equal. But in this case the concerns about being fired likely outweigh the concerns about job-hunting while unemployed.
Anon
+1. I was laid off last year; was never on a PIP and had excellent performance reviews. Layoff was due to finances and a reorg. I was dismayed that when I interviewed for jobs and explained I had been laid off, it was viewed with suspicion and people asked a lot of questions, I believe trying to suss out whether or not I had been fired. I don’t know what it would have been like to have had to say “I was fired.” People didn’t react well to me being laid off!
Anonymous
Yes, if you quit you are leaving on your own terms. If you wait for them to fire you, then you have no locus of control. Quit — take some time to focus on you, your family, and start the healing journey. Working your narrative so that when you are job hunting you are in a positive space. It sounds so much better to say that you left your job to refocus your priorities, now with time you know what you want, etc…
Anon
Agree with everyone that I think severance is unlikely and the best case scenario at this point is to resign and negotiate what they’ll say regarding future references (ie- will HR confirm dates, that you resigned and not mention the PIP?). I’m sorry you’re going through this.
OP
Thank you, thank you, thank you. This has all been incredibly helpful. Since I live in a right-to-work state, that should give some insight on how and employee’s claim would go, and while my boss has toxic behavior she didn’t discriminate, and it would be very easy for them to say I was just doing CYA since I got on a PIP, so I do think the best option is to quit and set my end date within reason.
I’ve used this morning to minimize effort on job tasks and start writing pro/cons of quitting vs. staying (guess what has more pros…?) and also list out things I need to do (review DH’s benefits, buy a personal laptop, etc).
I’ve never quit a job since I started working at age 16. The worst scenarios have been – when I was a lot more junior – 1) A layoff when I was first out of graduate school (where my employer literally helped find me my next job, I was working again in ~6 weeks) and 2) Mutual agreement to end employment which was a standard thing a now defunct consulting company I worked for did (performance metrics were good but they got wind that I was looking thanks to a former manager, I got severance, and was in a new job at a company I loved within ~4 weeks).
DH has been wonderfully supportive (as one’s partner should). However, he’s also up for partner this summer/fall in BigLaw and if it didn’t work out he was hoping to jump ship. My being in between jobs of course puts a wrench in those plans if he doesn’t get partner, and while he doesn’t blame me, I just feel really bad about my role in limiting his options. Luckily I have therapy scheduled for Monday. :)
LSC
I am sorry you are going through this. Assuming you have no legal discrimination concerns…What if you level with them? Say something like “We can both acknowledge this is not going well. I want to be successful in my work, but I don’t want to take up your time and resources if there is no long term future here. Can we agree on an exit plan?” Then propose the severance you want or some kind of transition over the next few weeks or months. I work in HR and they might take you up on this kind of offer just to move things along. It also allows you some agency/dignity with respect to your exit. It may not be right for you, but food for thought!
OP
I love this and will use. Thank you.
Anon
I was on a leadership team when we had someone do this and it was actually much appreciated that the person was willing to move along without putting us through having to fire him. He proposed a severance; our HR person talked to us and we wanted to counter; he accepted the counteroffer and worked for another week and was done. It allowed for a conclusion to the employment relationship that didn’t involve a lot of drama or hard feelings. I think OP should definitely give it a shot.
Spiritual Abuse Support
Long shot, but does anyone have experience supporting a loved one who has survived spiritual abuse (no sexual abuse, think more on the cult end)? I have found some resources and I have my own therapist I can ask (so does the survivor), but this group has experience in everything so any tips or resources are greatly appreciated!
The person is out of the abusive church, but has family members who are not and actually reports to a church member at work (working on getting a new job). The person has LOTS of shame and embarrassment and trust issues. I am doing my best to provide a supportive environment where they feel heard to help them work through their trauma, although I know I am not a professional and am very glad they have one!
I found a website that focuses on spiritual abuse recovery but also love podcasts, books, etc.
Thank you!
Anon
I’ve heard that online support groups with other folks who have a similar experience are really great. Even Reddit is a good resource.
Vicky Austin
+1 – I think R e d dit has specific subs for various churches/cults – there’s definitely an ex-Mormon one.
PolyD
There’s a podcast, Leaving Eden, by a woman who left the fundamentalist Baptist church. They might have some information – they might also have a Facebook page.
Anonymous
Leaving Eden does have a Facebook group! It is full of people who have left various churches and is an extremely supportive place. Additionally, and I admittedly know less about this, but I have heard the YouTube channel “Fundie Fridays” (possibly also has an associated Facebook or Reddit group) is a supportive community as well.
Anon
Can you describe a bit more about the spiritual abuse?
Anon
I watched an excellent documentary called “One of Us” about leaving Orthodox Judaism. IIRC, there is also a book written by a woman who left her Orthodox community.
go for it
Has anyone bough the ON sneakers? I am looking at the Cloud X 3.
Opinions?
edj3
Me!
In fact, I own two pairs. I use them for CrossFit (no I am not Trad), and can also do shorter runs, 5 miles or less. I love them so much.
Anon
I hate ’em! They don’t fit my feet, but many people love them. I recommend you go to a running store and check them out yourself.
Anonymous
I LOVE them (and before getting my first pair I had made fun of my husband’s ONs because they looked silly to me) but they are the perfect amount of support for me. I do a lot of trail walking and short runs (3-mi) and they’re my go-tos. I did not like hokas or altras. I do think it’s a love or hate them sort of thing so definitely go try them on.
Anon
They didn’t fit my foot shaped but they seemed like any other nice pair of sneakers.
Anon 2.0
Favorite sites for browsing both super $$$$ furniture and high end home decor? Looking to do some fantasy browsing.
AIMS
NYT just had a whole feature about the woman behind this one: https://eye-swoon.com/
Senior Attorney
I am, in fact, swooning over this s!te.
Anon
I like The Glam Pad.
Anon
Not all of it is super high-end, but check out Industry West.
Also I can spend … way too much time on Chairish.
Anon
In two days, it’s the anniversary of when Roe v. Wade was overturned. I mentioned Plan C Pills yesterday, which you can order free informational stickers from, and they also do wonderful awareness work more broadly so women know their rights and their safe medical options. As we fight on, I also want to mention that women need to be aware of the risk of “forced teaming” between abortion rights and other social issues. Bills that advance abortion rights, but contain “poison pills” unrelated to abortion, are going to be a significant barrier moving forward. If you can, I suggest calling your representative or senator and stating your support for abortion-specific legislation. Forced teaming is not okay, and in this precarious time when women’s very lives are at risk, we have to do all we can to maintain focus.
Anonymous
Is there a way to stop advertisers/MAMAA from listening to me on my phone? A setting change I can make? (I am on Android but feel free to share the iphone answer, too, if there is one.)
I just got a very targeted ad that was most certainly sent to me because someone casually referenced the advertiser in a phone call to me on Tuesday night and it has me feeling creeped out.
anonshmanon
I am not sure they actually listen to you. I heard a podcast about this, and they explained that what is very likely is that they have your identity mapped in a network of people (e.g. from apps syncing your contacts, and social media networks that show who knows who). If one of your friends or connections did google the product or click on an ad or bought a thing, the algorithm may push ads to people in the network, with the logic that the same product may be of interest to people who are connected.
Vicky Austin
This is what I’ve read/heard too. Like, my SIL has her phone set to Spanish because it’s the language she studied in school and she likes to keep her hand in. Every time I’m around her, I get ads in Spanish for a few weeks.
Anon
This is correct. If the friend you were talking to, or were physically near, uses a certain brand of toothpaste, you might get an ad for that, regardless of whether you discussed it or not.
Anonymous
I think this is the story tech companie tell so people don’t freak out. I get advertisements all the time for tourism in a very small remote town that I nor anyone I associate with has never googled or visited. But I get these ads because my personal phone occasionally hears me talk about the small remote town on my work phone.
Anon
This is the stuff of conspiracy theories and not based in reality.
Anon
Well, then you explain it?
I’ve gotten advertisements for things only discussed on the phone when locked down for COVID. Maybe someone who had Googled the same thing was driving by?
My best guess is that it’s because my husband’s phone is always listening (because it takes voice commands). It’s probably legal because he opted in, right?
anonshmanon
You talk about this topic on your work phone. You don’t think any of the people you talk to ever googled it?
Anonymous
All my work devices have VPN and encryption same with my colleagues devices. I don’t contact my colleagues on personal devices, so there is no legal way for the tech companies to be serving me those ads
anonshmanon
VPNs disguise your location when on the internet, but they don’t automatically prevent cookies or browser fingerprinting.
Vicky Austin
Well, that’s eerie. I bought a jar of honey at the grocery store from a company located in my state, but nowhere near me. I read the label out loud to myself in the grocery store. “Hmm, [town name] honey.”
Later that day I got an ad for [town name] Hyundai. I have never been in the market for a Hyundai, or planning to go to this area of Texas to buy anything.
Anon
They know what you bought though.
Cat
was your purchase associated with your store loyalty account?
Anon
I think they’re actually listening, because one day my husband and I were discussing replacing the air filter in our furnace; my phone was next to me on the couch. I picked up my phone a few minutes later and went to Instagram and there was an ad for a furnace air filter replacement service in my feed. Sorry, that seems too coincidental for me to believe they’re not listening – I had not done any searching about the topic and hadn’t even thought about changing the air filter until my husband brought it up in that conversation, and he said he had not searched anything about air filters either, prior to bringing it up.
Anon
This is a common misconception but I can promise you that in the USA, nobody is listening to your phone calls (unless it is the government and they have a warrant). It would be incredibly, unbelievably illegal and given the potential for a multi-million dollar award I am confident we would have seen the wiretapping lawsuit by now (I mean there are hundreds of pending lawsuits claiming that website chat features are wiretapping never mind what would happen if there was actual wiretapping going on.)
If you are on the internet and are not incredibly careful and only surrounded by people who are also incredibly careful, advertisers know basically everything about you except your dreams – and maybe even that.
Anon
I don’t get this. Devices don’t have to listen to the phone calls specifically if they’re listening to everything audible, which they’re already doing far too often (shut up, Alexa, no one was talking to you!).
Anon
Precisely! If you have Siri’s voice activation turned on, then the phone is listening. How else would it know that you’re saying, “Hey Siri!” (or “seriously” or whatever else it accidentally responds to)? I don’t think most people believe their phone are being tapped, but rather that apps are collecting data through the microphones.
Anonymous
OP here – I want to believe this. But a caller referenced a specific assisted living facility in my parent’s very small town once on a call on Tuesday. I have spoken to this caller exactly two other times, both more than a year ago. The comment was off-the-cuff, not based on research she did. I did no research on this topic. Then today I got an ad for that specific facility — on this site.
Anon
I believe you. Has happened to me.
Anon
I’ve been in kind of a spiral the last week or so where I’ve been thinking about all the things I’ve ever done wrong/mistakes I’ve made, from childhood to now. This was triggered by an argument with my father who will let no opportunity pass to tell me my faults and how I’ve done something wrong. Any tips for getting out of this spiral? I am in therapy and have an appointment scheduled as soon as I can get in. I’m just sick of feeling like crap every time my mind isn’t occupied with something else.
JD
Can you write the thoughts down then burn them :) Think about how ridiculous it is to dwell on events from twenty or thirty years ago that weren’t terrible things. Think about successful friends or public figures who’ve come back from mistakes. In this case, I’d reflect on your parent’s own failings/behaviors. How inconsiderate of him to bring these things up. How would he have liked his parents’ publicly reflecting on them (or maybe they did and that’s the generational trauma coming back up)? What would you tell your own children if they were adults dwelling on these things.
Also if you hadn’t made those choices, you may not be married to the same person with the same children. Maybe those choices wouldn’t have made you happy after all.
Then I’d exercise, take a sleep aide/melatonin and listen to dumb podcasts or read non-serious books while going to bed.
Anon
Grey Rock for your father asap. Therapy yes. And remember that all of us have made mistakes, and those mistakes are how we learn not to do that again. In fact, they have made us who we are today.
Anon
In the short term, find an activity that is (1) not stressful and (2) keeps your brain sufficiently engaged that it does not leave room for anything else. I find that (depending on the time of day) anything from my Orange Theory classes to Sudoku works.
And if your therapist is not already working on CBT, find one who does. You can control your thoughts but it takes time and practice to learn how.
Anon
I’m looking for some slim work pants for a tall cusp sized figure. What have you liked recently. All winter I was in full leg trousers but it feels like a bit much for right now, and vainly, that style seems to make me look bigger. Interested in your suggestions! I prefer navy and grey to black.
Moose
I’ve liked the Eloquii Kady pant a lot. Tapered, not skinny, but a slimmer cut.
Anon
Old Navy Pixies.