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And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
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Woods-comma-Elle
I realise that you will all now judge me, but I must express my outrage about the firing of the Js and noted fashion photographer Nigel Barker from ANTM.
This is a sad day.
PharmaGirl
It can’t possibly get any worse than the current season (of course, I said that last season).
Woods-comma-Elle
Sure, but the only redeeming feature currently is noted fashion photographer Nigel Barker being notably hot.
Nancy P
And he’s so kind. And knowledgeable. And super super hot.
KC
Ditto to all that. And ditto again to the hot part.
Margaret
I do love him. I have to say, while reading the Hunger Games, I totally pictured him as Cinna. He was my clear casting choice. How great would that have been? Not that Lenny Kravitz didn’t do a wonderful job, but it just wasn’t the same after picturing Nigel in my head for so many years …
Ms. Basil E. Frankweiler
It can always get worse. Although the whole “Modelland” mini-movie (specifically the sucking on Tyson Beckford’s thumb) was a whole new level of badness, even for her.
Em
My jaw dropped when I read that – outrage indeed!
TCFKAG
Okay…I stopped watching several seasons ago now…but they got rid of Nigel Barker???!!!! He was the only sane part left about the whole show! What the h*ll?
a.
Whaaaaat?? I just–I can’t even. There is no show without the Js and Nigel Barker’s cheekbones! I only watched it for the Js and Nigel Barker’s cheekbones!
DC Jenny
Honestly, I wouldn’t have been too upset about Notedfashionphotograhernigelbarker, but the Js?!?! If the Js aren’t working for the show any more, it’s time to cancel because Tyra sure isn’t going to come up with anything better.
Woods-comma-Elle
I’m glad I’m not the only one – I LOVE the Js, too, as much as NFPNB, they should just get rid of Tyra as she is getting crazier by the cycle. The new lady judge is fine, but she’s a bit too proper and dull, bring back Andre Leon Talley!
Baltimorean
Unacceptable. Tyra has officially lost her damn mind.
The Online Shopper
My oh my. I did not even know that ANTM was still on! I gave it up sometime back in law school…and have somehow grown out of touch!
Always a NYer
Threadjack – I just started using Epiduo gel for my acne and the inevitable peeling has begun. I’m using a rich moisturizer after it dries but even that burns my face for a few minutes. Any tips or lotions/creams to use? TIA.
TriedEverything
Disclaimer: I was only on Epiduo for about 2 months before my derm chastised the PA who prescribed it while he was out of the office. It was too harsh for me and ended up causing more irritation that worsened my acne.
That said, I loved CeraVe lotion because it was very moisturizing, but not oily. I also had luck applying over the counter hydrocortisone cream every other day to the more sensitive parts of my face (below the nose/around the mouth). Good luck!
S in Chicago
I’m using Epiduo as well. But unlike other topicals I’ve used in the past, it never caused peeling. Can you ask you derm for a lower percentage? It may be that the retinoid is a bit too high (if it’s more than a couple of weeks like this, definitely check). Also, be very good with sunscreen. You’re more sensitive to light, which can make redness and peeling more likely. My skin is very sensitive, and I’ve had good luck with Nutrogena’s combo suncreen moisturizer from their pure line, which relies on physical sunblock.
Epiduo (and nicotinamide orally) has been a complete lifesaver combo for me. Total relief not to have to give my skin another thought anymore. Hope your results are just as good soon.
DC Jenny
I would cut down on the frequency of use. When I started using it, I could only handle twice a week applications for a long time.
Coalea
Are you wedded to the idea of using Epiduo? I use Differin, which contains one of the active ingredients in Epiduo (adapalene) but not the other (benzoyl peroxide), and which is available in a lotion formulation. I have not found it to be irritating at all, but I have heard that gels can be.
If you want to stick with what you have, I recommend cutting back on how frequently you are using it. Hopefully that will help!
Leslie
I’ve been using coconut oil on my face – it has really helped with dryness that lotions and creams couldn’t cure!
AttiredAttorney
Not to sound like the broken clarisonic record, but try using it or some other light exfoliator. I found that to be the key with my retin-a prescription.
JJS
When I took accurate, I lathered on cetaphil (cream at night, lotion in the day). It was the only thing that worked on my cracking, super dry skin. I occasionally used aquaphor, especially in lips, but that is probably too greasy for all but very small areas.
Casper Clone
Ann Taylor report: Many thanks for the suggestions to check out their curvy line – I did find a size that fits well, but alas no work appropriate styles left in that size. But now at least I know what to look for online or at future sales.
Trying to be learned
Someone at work commented on my un-professionalism the other day – not that I don’t work hard, or drink at work, but because I come off as fluffy and silly and weird (though smart and motivated.) I’m young-ish (27) but need someone to tell me how to create a solid, glossy, smooth haired patina.
I was further informed, that if I were really pretty, it would be okay, but since I am six foot and a size 24, it is important that I remain a step above. This is actually true – it is one thing for Zooey Deschanel to be a little quirky pixie girl but quite another for a lumbering, towering person to be like that. *Please note that I was not offended by this comment, and do not want to defend myself to this person. Advice is advice, and if one person says it, more are probably thinking it.*
Teach me how to be one of those women – you know who I mean: the non-flustered, smooth haired, capable, professional types who glide instead of walk clumsily in their heels. I wear navy suits and pearls, carry a Kate Spade handbag and read this site religiously. I’m trying so hard – I straighten my hair every morning, read tons of books and magazines, speak softly and slowly with a low tone – but I’m just not there. I’ve read NGDGTCO before I started this job, and have worked on a lot of my bad habits, such as smiling too much, nodding my head excessively and tilting my head to the side. People can also tell that I’m trying – I’ve been told that I’m overly enthusiastic, and that I need to relax. People think I’m cute, which is certainly not what I am going for.
Ugh. Help me. Please.
TCFKAG
OY to the VEY. If you’re not annoyed and offended by this person, may I be on your behalf.
Lets start with this. You cannot be a “professional woman” just by putting on a mask every morning and playing “professional lady” dress-up. Because it will ring false. If you aren’t a navy suit wearing, Kate Spade carrying, quiet speaking girl — than own who you are and figure out that sweet spot where you can make that work for the office. I’m not saying you need to go full-on Deschenel, but you need to be able to be comfortable in your own skin.
Perhaps (and I say PERHAPS because I can’t say for sure), but perhaps the reason you come of as a little off is because people feel like you are putting on a constant show. Perhaps if you were wearing clothes you were more comfortable in and got a haircut you were more comfortable with (or just didn’t straighten your hair one day) and just spoke in your more normal voice, than you’d actually come off as more professional. I mean NGDGTCO is all well and good, but if you do everything in there without some sense or reality, you can come off as an automaton without personality. You still need to be you.
DC Darling
I absolutely agree with this. From here it sounds like you’re acting rather than being yourself and people are picking up on it. It’s fine to put on the suit and pearls but if you want people to take you as a professional you have to be comfortable in your own skin.
One of the most well spoken, informed, smart and professional woman I knew was retired (therefore not in suits and pearls) but her confidence and authoritativeness were so palpable she had no problem commanding the attention of a room (even in jeans!).
I think on this site we frequently emphasize the importance of looking the part but under emphasize feeling the part. Makes sense though since it’s much easier to put on a fabulous suit than magically become confidant.
myself and proud of it
I can’t speak for you and your situation, but I do know that if anyone at work ever looked at me and said something to the effect of “you might have been able to pull this off if you were really pretty” that I’d recognize that person was a bully and that I didn’t need to give any weight to anything they said. That they were simply playing on what they perceived as my insecurities, and then I’d become aware of how false those insecurities are and feel free to rock out as myself.
If I ever cared about another professional woman, I would never say “maybe you could get away with X if you were just a little prettier.”
I know we are a fashion blog, but even in the world of being fashionable – if you produce kick-a** work product and you are kind to everyone in your office, then anyone who doesn’t like you or says they don’t take you seriously is not someone you need to worry about impressing.
Anony
If someone said that to me, it would take all my strength not to clock them one. And since the OP sounds like, frankly, she could take the witch, I think this is a course of action she should consider in the future. (Not really, of course, since that would probably get the OP fired…but seriously, you could pull it off if you were prettier…REALLY???)
Trying to be learned
Eh, I get was she was saying though. And I honestly don’t think it was malicious (this time – there have been other times.) But yes, she is a b*tch – it’s super competitive program, so we all are to some extent.
Yes, I could just sit on her. But I’ve never liked using my size – when I was a kid, my mom said over and over that I couldn’t be mean because of my size – that people would be afraid of me if I gave them the opportunity.
Niktaw
For starters, just imagine sitting on her while she is talking to you. I’ll bet it will be helpful AND enjoyable.
Houda
If you were prettier..
I would be too offended to even consider this slightly constructive.
As a kid I have dealt with the usual “your sister is so pretty so she can be nuaghty.. you ugly ducklin in glasses have to be perfect” thing. Now as a young professional, I do not care from what cultural background you are, nor how well-meaning your intentions are; this statement is just too offensive.
Ruby
She didn’t deliver the message well, but I think I hear the point. It took me til mid-30s to grow out of being a bit too silly in the workplace and I only learned the hard way when a guy chewed me out for a particular incident- he was right and I’m embarassed looking back. Talk less, hold jokey things inside, see if that helps. Picture an older person in charge- would they comment, giggle, etc. in any given situation when you would? It really took me way longer to become self aware and correct on this- I’m still myself, but that doesn’t mean sticking to youthful unprofessional behavior, it’s part of growing up. I don’t agree with all the comments saying to blow it off- sure, take it with a grain of salt, but you are smart to consider what triggered this reaction. Would be curious to hear from highly experienced women on this, like near retirement age- I think it matters and is part of cultivating your work success, using self control to moderate your natural tendencies.
anon
i like this.
Hopefully helpful
Hello dear, I’m sure you’ll get lots of help here as most of us can relate to periods of learning the corporate culture. One thing that jumps out at me is maybe a lack of focus you’re feeling on the actual role you have in front of you. Seems to me when you’re dedicated to making it happen (“it” being whatever you’re hired to do) to the best of your ability, your appearance and demeanor won’t matter, meaning you won’t be trying to impress via external means. You don’t need to entertain & please your co-workers, just realize no one is really focusing on you personally. We’ve all got our job to do and maybe sometimes the one who feels their needs are also on the agenda comes off as inappropriate.
More info?
Trying, can you come back and give us some more info? What’s your natural personality? What is the weird, quirky stuff that you’re trying to subdue? It’s hard to know how to give you advice without knowing more — it doesn’t seem like trying “gloss up” your clothes or hair or demeanor would address whatever is happening here. It seems like there’s something happening involving social cues or cultural norms.
Trying to be learned
I work hard – I’m quite good at my job, and I focus on it. But part of my job is to prove that I’m a good fit for company culture. Honestly though, I’m an admin, and people are not that impressed with stellar filing skills. I have a rotational position, which means that I have to change positions every 1.5 years, so my life is like a constant job interview – and in a job interview, your appearance and persona matter.
V
Not sure what you do, but I found that these helped with the gravitas thing (FWIW, I’m in law, and while the guys eventually caught up, I was the Tall Girl for my formative years):
1. Suits. You’ve got to own the look, but the idea is to skew to the uniform of the serious without it seeming costumey. If you need a TV show for guidance, I’d recommend Damages (but I always think that those heels are pretty but too high on the younger one). Or something uniform-y. Can you throw on a jacket?
2. WSJ. Read daily, even if it is just the front of each section (and if you’re pressed for time, the front of the first section). Will give you something to talk about that is grown-up, possibly noticeable by people upstream from you in a good way.
3. For fun, watch Working Girl.
4. Breathe! It’s a process. Also maybe pausing a bit and not rushing into an answer; suggests that you’re thinking a bit and may convey that you are relaxed and not jumpy.
5. Any chance you can find someone a senior to you and take note of what she says/does/reads/wears? When in Rome . . .
Trying to be learned
I have absolutely no gravitas whatsoever. I watch Damages (and Suits and the Good Wife) but while I can take inspiration from the clothes, there isn’t a lot of stuff available in a size 24. I also don’t have a lot of money, so I can’t do a lot of accessorizing.
I don’t read the WSJ (Canadian) but I do read the Economist weekly and spend time on google news. It doesn’t help – I think I speak in a lot of! short! bursts! so what I say always comes across as dumb no matter what the subject matter.
V
Goodness — I wish I could introduce you to my Grande Dame friend. She is tall and of great proportions and is a rockstar in her field. It was a lot for her to manage when we were both starting out. But she owns who she is and always nails it on the substance end. She did have the most awesome luck with sales since she wasn’t a size 8 — perhaps you can find a good shopper for you at a higher-end place? The Manolo for the Big Girl blog is a good all-around read.
Trying to be learned
That *is* a great blog!
lucy stone
Do you have Talbots in Canada? I am short and stout but have taller plus-size friends that have great luck with their stuff. I tend to wear a lot of their suits with something more unexpected underneath.
AN
Relax. Forget about the ‘image’ and focus on work, on asking smart questions, being your competent self. Wear what suits you and makes you look professional, whether or not that includes pearls and navy. Forget the straight hair, try to work with your waves or curls.
The more you stress about this, the worse you’ll get. And it could be that one person thinks you’re ‘cute’ or whatever, others may think you’re doing just fine. Or do you know for sure that this is what everyone thinks?
qwerty
i agree with this. i’m your age and i’m sure people think i’m fluffy and smile too much. but i would never change that about myself. i can’t turn myself into into a white haired middle aged white guy, i’ll never have that gravitas. i just hope that my interests, experiences, and intelligence also bring something to the table. you have to own who you are. and i NEVER straighten my rambunctiously curly hair. i realize professional life would be easier if i did, but i would feel like an alien in my own skin.
Totes McGotes
THIS THIS THIS THIS.
I have never been able to pull off that gravitas that some people have either. (You will notice that most of the people who do have it are in fact older, whether or not they are also white men.) If you are young, quirky, silly, and weird, then you just have to work with being young, quirky, silly, and weird. You may want to make sure you’re not sharing every thought that comes to you, because not everyone has the imagination to appreciate those traits and respect that you can be completely professional without the gravitas. Maybe part of what’s coming off strangely about you is that the things you say are out of line with the costumed image you’ve been trying to present. However, the fact that someone felt comfortable coming to you and saying this means that you *have* been slacking off on letting people know you’re a force to be reckoned with and that being young, quirky, silly, and weird doesn’t mean you intend to take anybody’s sh!t.
Stop trying so hard to fit in. Go buy some clothes that express your personality a bit more, and the next time someone has something to say about whether or not your personality is okay for your frame, tell them to p!ss off and get out of your office.
Trying to be learned
Ugh, it’s so hard not to try to fit in. I don’t even know who I really am anymore.
Your first paragraph is spot on, especially:
“Maybe part of what’s coming off strangely about you is that the things you say are out of line with the costumed image you’ve been trying to present.”
I think that might be it. But I don’t know how to bridge the two.
Totes McGotes
I think we have a lot in common. For most of my life I have been a people-pleaser who earnestly tried to be friends with everyone and felt like I had really missed out on an opportunity any time I wasn’t successful in making friends with someone. But in reality, not everyone is going to like or “get” you, and it’s incredibly empowering to make that analysis for yourself and to be able to say to yourself, “So-and-so is nice enough, but isn’t really my kind of person.” So identify and embrace the people who are receptive to you and ready for a laugh or to entertain an unusual line of thought, and the ones who aren’t open to that, take note of their positive qualities and don’t exert yourself trying to get close to them.
I saw that you are in a new city with no real connections. I would try to find some kind of outlet – a book club or intramural team or volunteering – because it’s going to be a million times harder to let yourself be yourself until you’re in a situation where your work connections are not your end-all and be-all.
Totes McGotes
I’ll also add that like you, I am larger (~5’10” and plus-sized), and am a loud talker (thanks theatre training!) with what I call a “Julia Roberts” laugh. I’m sure there are plenty of people who think I’m irritating and boisterous, but there are lots who think I’m the bee’s knees.
BigLaw Optimist
I also can relate to this – someone at work once accused me of being too warm and fuzzy (the woman doing the accusing is anything but) and needing to be treated with kid gloves. Which was crap for more reasons that I can list in this little box. I’m also your age, and for awhile, I was really upset and tried to change myself to fit who I was “supposed” to be. After awhile, I realized that not everyone wants to deal with a b*tch on wheels and that my accuser has her own issues (see the above comments about bullies). It’s really not worth changing who you are – I will always be a happy, warm and fuzzy person – so sue me, I can’t help it that I am nice to everyone and think that I should also be treated with respect. I also work my face off and have developed a reputation as the hard-working, “happy” associate who gets along with everyone and sends chipper emails at 6am after working through the night to help the team. There’s a place in the office for all personalities – I think you should try to figure out what the professional version of YOURSELF is, then be that person. :)
MaggieLizer
It was totally inappropriate for this person to tell you that you couldn’t act the way you do because of your height/size. I’m flabbergasted by this idea that certain personalities can only fit in certain packages – that’s just too ridiculous for words. You have every right to be offended. That you weren’t offended suggests to me that you kind of agree with this person. Don’t. S/he’s a doosh. And, fwiw, two of the most successful women I know are energetic, bordering on happy-go-lucky, bada$$ taller/stockier ladies.
You’ve done a lot of work to change your habits to become the kind of professional you think you should be. Now it’s time to work on embracing the good things about yourself and making those shine. You’re clearly a considerate, empathetic, and driven person; those are all huge strengths. If you focus on the things that make you a fantastic person, you’ll probably project a lot more confidence.
There was a thread last week (I think?) about how to project more confidence; you might want to revisit that, there were a lot of great comments. For the shoes – if you can’t walk in heels, then get yourself some fabulous flats.
young-ish too!
“Pretty” has nothing to do with it, so I think you can take that comment and throw it out the window. I’m also young-ish, and I come across as really enthusiastic, energetic, and kind of intense. I’ve had to tone down how fast I speak, how loud I speak, and generally, just make sure that I’m not stressing people out with my tendency to go faster, faster, FASTER!!!! But, at the end of the day, that’s who I am, and I have to take it in stride while building my professional image. I also have curly hair, and I don’t waste time straightening it, because that would impede my ability to get ready fast in the mornings :) So, as someone noted above, what are the “weird, quirky things” you do that make you seem “off”? Maybe there’s a way to tone that down a little bit, but remaining true to yourself? I’ve come to realize that talking with big hand gestures in a loud voice at 90 miles a minute makes people feel stressed out, but I don’t feel like I’m being fake if I tone these things down a littl.e
Trying to be learned
“I come across as really enthusiastic, energetic, and kind of intense.”
YES! That is pretty much me. I get really excited about things. Someone once referred to me as an all caps person. I think the quirky thing is that I like to know everything – not gossip or about people’s personal lives, but I’m honestly super interested in their department and their work. Zooey Deschanel was a bad comparison – I’m not quirky like that – but I’m happy and nice and effusive, which comes across as odd, apparently.
Trying to be learned
Okay. Me again – thank you so much for all of your lovely comments.
As for what I do: I’m in a training program where we are being groomed to be managers, and am currently working as an admin. I’ve held previous admin jobs before, so I’m comfortable in that role and good at what I do. Of my peers, I am in the least busy department and have the fewest responsibilities (due to placement, not performance) so I spend a lot of time looking for extra projects and opportunities to learn something new. I think that’s where the enthusiastic piece comes in – I go way above and beyond my position because I need too (the mentor of our stream has said that she’s worried I’m not getting enough experience, and that I need to work hard to keep up.) However, I have worked with upper management before and know when to shut up and sit down.
I do feel like I’m acting all the time. I get home, and am exhausted because I never let myself switch off during the work day. I’m naturally ambitious and join a lot of committees, so my days get long. My wardrobe consists of two sections: work clothes (I consider off-hour socializing and extra-curricular stuff as work) and pajamas. I just moved here (for the job) so I don’t know anybody outside of work and feel all alone, all the time. I feel like I’m at a 8 hour job interview every day. Naturally, I’m a happy person and bubbly and extroverted.
Clothing wise, I like being dressed up a little. I like wearing pearl necklaces and dresses, and I feel more confident if I look nice. My hair isn’t so much curly as ginormous. Straightening it just flattens it out a little bit. I don’t mind wearing suits – I just feel like nothing really fits, ever. I had a suit custom made (the most expensive piece of clothing I own by a long shot) and I still feel constricted in it. The jacket usually comes off as soon as I sit down.
I’m naturally a loud person and love to talk to people (I’m the only person I know who actually enjoys public speaking.) Oddly, I’m one of the quietest people in the office – I’m afraid of saying something weird, so I just keep my head down and work. I love politics and fashion and history and random facts – one of my problems is that I assume other people are interested too. I also really want people to like me, and tend to ramble. I’m good at reading social cues and I got this job because of demonstrated interpersonal skills. I think the problem is that I feel not as qualified as everyone else and am trying too hard. Classic impostor syndrome.
I just feel that I need to be better. I don’t want to subvert my entire personality, but know that I need to tone down my natural self. I do have an excellent role model here at work, but she’s the one who called me adorable which irritated me because I was trying to be calm and natural.
ShortieK
The fact that you “keep my head down and work.” while naturally being a extroverted and bubbly person alarms me.
are there coworkers that you could reach out to? If it’s a competitive program, fellow trainees might not be the best option, but maybe women in your assigned department?
There’s wrong with being the cheerful eager coworker that’s interested tons of random stuff….as long as you’re also known as a hard worker. Clearly you are a hard worker!
Maybe start starting some conversations at work or in one of your committees and letting your true self shine through a little bit.( Most of my department is fascinated with local history so you might get lucky!) Constantly holding yourself in check is not good for yourself or your performance on the job.
Trying to be learned
The thing is – everyone I know is either a)direct competition, or b) a reference for my next position. I’m rotational, which means I switch jobs every year, and it all depends on your references to what job you get next. I have tried to bring things up to other people, but they just say that I’m doing fine, and shouldn’t worry. And then think I’m weird.
I’m also a little homesick, with no support structure here. So I do feel isolated a lot of the time.
AnonInfinity
Do you have some friends from home you could talk with? Other bad@ss women who are up-and-comers like you? They might have some suggestions or a good pep talk for you. Sometimes when I’m having a horrible day, it helps to go to someone who is not at my firm and be like, “What is up with this?!”
Everyone else has had some great advice. It’s ok to be happy and bubbly at work as long as you’re not acting like you’re still in high school. For a long time, I was so genuinely happy to be at my firm (and I still am this happy, I can just control it better) that I was ALWAYS smiling. One of the partners made a comment to me that I was “always chipper.” It’s true. Once they’ve gotten to know me a little better, I don’t think people think I’m quite so absurd. And they seem to appreciate my being game and excited about everything.
Try to remember that everyone wants to work with people they like and that have personalities. Let it show and be yourself!!!
Susan
Others have already given good advice, so I’ll just add these two cents here:
1)Your personality from your own description of it, sounds lovely.
I will never, ever understand why some people want to use their energy to force others to behave just like them. It’s one thing if they are the norm and already fit in, but why must they try to enforce that? That suggests to me that they’re bullies, and the woman who told you that is a controlling bully. Don’t cave in to her or to people like her.
2)Gravitas — it’s good to have sometimes, but I think it’s overrated. But if you would like it to add to your toolkit, then remember that you have a right to be who you are, and that who you are is every bit as valid as who others are. They are not better than you, no matter what their life situation or job title is.
They are not, at the core, where we’re talking the nature of their humanity, better people than you, unless you are an evil, conniving, genocidal maniac who kicks puppies. :-)
Other than demonstrating proficiency at your work, don’t be too eager to please– they are not your betters, even if they are your bosses or will be your bosses. Once you internalize that you are every bit as important in this crazy world as they are, the gravitas will come and be there when you need it. It’s about shifting things internally, so you feel good in your skin. It’s not the exterior stuff, or the act.
TX lawyer
You sound fabulous. If you happen to be in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, I would love to have a drink with you. We could all use more friends!
Equity's Darling
Where abouts in Canada are you? I’m in Calgary should be lonely here and looking for a non-work pal to have drinks and go shoe shopping with.
ShortieK
woah hey…. “I have tried to bring things up to other people, but they just say that I’m doing fine, and shouldn’t worry. And then think I’m weird.”
99.9% certain that people don’t think you’re wierd. Unless they’re inching away from you at every conversation and doing musical chairs when you sit down at a conference table, you’re fine. :) Be confident! You’re excelling!
Maybe see if there are any corporettes in the area?
Make a habit of calling family members every weekend or something? It makes me homesick, but I do feel more centered after catching up on the family drama.
Trying to be learned
I moved from coast to coast – I’m currently in Ottawa. Part of the problem is that the West Coast, where I’m from is so much more laid back and friendly than Ottawa.
Alana
You seem to have quite a bit of self-awareness. In order to focus on your strengths in the workplace, Strengths Finder 2.0, or whatever the latest version is, could be helpful.
NOLA
Honey, you need to figure out how to be your best self and use your strengths to succeed. It sounds like you have some great skills that will serve you really well. You just need to be comfortable with yourself and learn from the cues around you. When I was in my 20s, I was seen as smart and brash and impatient. I’ve learned to sit back a little and let others take the lead, but am a strong advocate for my area when I need to be. I’ve learned to be a patient and caring supervisor and a good mentor and manager. But I like to think I’m still fun and can be totally silly. I bring People and Us from my treadmill reading and leave them in the staff lounge. I like to hire people who are hardworking and productive and smart but fun and interesting. Life’s too short to try and make yourself be something you’re not. This is not to say that there aren’t things that you could adjust about yourself to be better at your job and work better with others and gain more respect. But nobody should be expecting that to happen immediately. You learn these things by observing and learning about yourself and adjusting gradually. Oh, and I’ve been plus-sized (not now, but it’s a constant struggle), have thin hair that requires a great professional cut, and I dress in what looks best and professional on me for my workplace (currently pencil skirt and matching tank, long cardigan, tights and 5 inch heels – gasp and clutch pearls if necessary).
young-ish too!
Ok, you sound very similar to me (you quoted me in an earlier comment). I’ve actually found that it helps to have a person to kind of “vent” to, if that makes sense. For me, that’s my husband. I tend to just explode personality, intensity, and excitment on him when I walk in the door. It’s fine to exude these traits in the office, but just toned down a little. I have a big voice, and if I’m not cognizant of it, you can hear me throughout the office. So, I make a concerted effort to use my “indoor voice”. This doesn’t mean that I mumble, fidget, or speak softly, it means that I take my usual 10 down to a confident 8. Maybe you could try the same. It sounds like you’ve swung to the opposite extreme, and so, in addition to just being really quiet, you’re also really uncomfortable.
Also, to quell the rambling, make a list of action items/questions that you need to address, and tell the person up front, “I have 3 things to ask you/4 things for you to sign/I need 10 minutes to discuss X”. That way, you’ve set yourself up to stay on topic, and set their expectations to keep you on topic (my bosses will usually prod me along with, “Ok, what was the next item on your list?”).
As far as imposter syndrome, I’ve dealt with that off and on since graduating college, and it’s totally normal. But hear this, YOU AREN’T AN IMPOSTER. You’re good at your job, you go above and beyond, and you’re dedicated. You’re a bada$$! Sometimes I just take a moment when I’ve done well, and totally pat myself on the back, brag to my husband, and generally walk around feeling awesome. I don’t do this with co-workers because I don’t want to come off as braggy, but you need to take time to revel in your awesomness when you’ve done a good job! It sounds like you’re dwelling on the valleys, and never giving yourself time to revel on the peaks! It’s not about being cocky or arrogant, it’s about recognizing that you have valuable skills and you’re good at your job. If you’re going to go to extremes, at least balance them out between the good and the bad :) (This said as someone that regularly deals with extremes, I have to make sure I don’t only take the bad to the extreme, but also the good.)
Trying to be learned
That is extremely excellent advice about the lists. I actually did that this afternoon, and it worked!
he Melitta
Wow, you sound a lot like me. I’m about the same age, and am the youngest person at my office. I dress better than the other women (meaning: always skirt suits and sweater/jacket; everyone else kind of sh***y ill-fitting business casual IMO), though the men (who are all higher-ranking) tend to dress more appropriately. I have noticed that the other women at my office tend to avoid me and talk behind my back. Yes, ladies, I can hear you chattering down the hall.
I think that the best thing you can do is just be yourself. You said yourself that you got hired for your personality– and it sounds to me like you wear nice things! I think there’s a lot of jealousy among women and the c*** that call you “not pretty enough” probably was speaking from that dark place. I cannot imagine EVER saying such a thing to another person. Is this person your boss? Or is this person just another competitor? I’d probably listen a lot more if it were my boss, and take the rest with a grain of salt. The people you need to impress are your bosses. Be the professional woman you are with them, and to hell with the rest. Just don’t fall into the trap of becoming part of the gossip train; no one likes those people and rest assured, your boss knows who they are and evaluates their opinion accordingly.
As far as hair, I have EXACTLY the same bigness problem. My hair is mostly straight, with just a slight curl; yet I have a TON of fly-aways. I just try to slick it down with shine spray as much as possible and put in a ton of root lifter and heavy goop in the bottom to compat the triangle effect. But honestly, the best thing that works for me is to just wear my hair up with spin-pins or the “modern updo” from Goody. That way everything is more compact, it’s sorta loose/more comfortable than bobby pins, and a good shot of hairspray fixes most of my fluffy problems.
Trying to be learned
It was a competitor. I shouldn’t say that – it’s not one job we’re all competing for, but for our choice of the next postings. So it’s more of a ‘friends, we’re all friends while we try to jockey ourselves into the best posts’ atmosphere.
My boss likes me, which is good. She says I remind her of her daughter, which is better than reminding her of someone she hates, I guess.
IBL
What city are you in? If there are other Corporettes there, try attending a meet up or even setting up one.
Nonny
Can you tell us where you are in Canada? We haven’t had any ‘Ette meetups in Canada yet (as far as I know), but there are various Canadians on here and I am sure one or more of us would be happy to take you out for a drink and act as your support network, depending on what city you are in.
Equity's Darling
Yup – I offered above as well:)
Trying to be learned
I’m in Ottawa – I just moved here and am still getting used to it. I don’t think there have been any meet-ups here, but there should be!
Anie
If you love politics and history and random facts—find a trivia night at a local bar, and ask an acquaintance at work to go with you. My regular trivia night was one of the best social decisions I’ve made in a long time—I’ve met a lot of cool people.
Gem
Go and talk to your stream mentor about additional projects. She’s flag your position puts you at a disadvantage so it’s fine to ask her for help now. Maybe find something that will fit with your personality. What would you really love to do?
Sadie
Have you read “Ask for It: How Women Can Use Negotiation to Get What They Really Want”?
It builds on NGDGTCO, and I definitely recommend it, even if you think you don’t have anything you need to negotiate right now, because I guarantee that you actually do.
Everyone has chimed in with some great advice about being comfortable in your own skin, which I agree with. However, I also think that you actually don’t sound very comfortable. It sounds like you would feel more competent and capable, yourself, if you could make some adjustments, and I think that’s fine too. I do agree that you shouldn’t try to ‘be something you’re not’, but I think that you could experiment a bit more to find a way to really feel like how you look reflects who you are AND who you want to be, and by doing so you’ll find the confidence to speak up and command the room.
You mentioned fuzzy/frizzy hair several times in your post. I too have naturally wavy/curly hair that pretty much looks like a fuzzball if I don’t address it. I find that getting a keratin smoothing treatment really helps, and a high end straightening iron is critical. You’d be amazed how much smoother and glossier your hair is if you do these two things, and it stays that way a lot better. The keratin treatment won’t make your hair straight, so don’t expect that, it just makes it smoother and easier to straighten.
And just remember that if you were “really pretty” and tiny like Zooey, although everyone might think you were adorable, they would be less likely to find you smart and competent in a high pressure environment, so work with what you’ve got. Tall people are commanding presences, go with it. Maybe try to figure out if the ‘being cute and eager’ business is just your personality, or if it’s a mechanism you’ve learned over the years to compensate for what you’ve viewed as taking up too much space. I have some tall girlfriends who struggled with that, because they felt ‘lumbering’ , and so they tried to seem smaller by seeming ‘cute’, but they were much more successful when they embraced their power.
However, if you DO find that it IS your personality, then work on embracing it and being powerful within it!
Divaliscious11
Or you can wear your hair as it naturally grows out of your head. Just make sure you get a cut from someone who ‘gets’ curly hair, and use products designed to enhance and smooth your curls.
CA Atty
Definitely this in regards to your hair. I feel like I’m always using anecdotes here, but my mom always had the WORST hair. Suddenly, she realized that her hair, which she always thought was straight and frizzy, was actually very curly. She went to a hairdresser who knew what she was doing and BAM, at 58 she has the best hair she’s had in her whole life. Curly and beautiful.
Also, just so you know you’re not alone. One thing that I’ve been told innumerable times over the years is “you’d be really pretty/hot/attractive if you just lost weight!” Of course, once when I did lose the weight, my bf complained about my boniness! (Not that he was one to talk.) The thing is, for me, I think/hope they’re right. My weight is an impediment to my life.
Your height and size don’t sound like an impediment to your life or your looks or anything. You’re just not comfortable in your own skin. Can I ask, are you an only or eldest child? I’ve realized that one reason I’ve always felt huge (even when I wasn’t) is that I grew up with my three younger siblings (didn’t go to school) so I really WAS the biggest!
You need to own your frame. This is how much space you take up and yeah, you’re taller than most women. That’s GREAT! That means you can look men straight in the eye, other people can’t loom over you, you can reach things on high shelves, etc! It’s okay to be enthusiastic and etc…AND also be tall! It might be a lot for some people to handle, but that’s on them, not you!
Trying to be learned
I’m am the oldest, and get this: my younger sister is a size 00 model. So tiny! But I am big – I have an up and down figure and am a size 24. I am definitely not comfortable in my own skin – my mother put me on my first diet when I was seven.
It’s just as if it is expected that big people act a certain way, if they are in business. Serious and grave, with powerful looks.
CA Atty
Oh, I know what you mean. But sometimes you just have to say eff your perceptions, I’m MEEEEEEEE! :-)
My mother never put me on a diet, per se, but I was constantly reminded that I was bigger than the others and could hurt them, not to take as much dinner because I didn’t need it and they (skinnies) did (never mind the fact that we all went to the same tennis lessons, swim team practice, skiing, roller skating, soccer practice, softball practice, etc…).
Oh, and then my dad called me Moby Dick and told me not to go swimming because I might get harpooned. That was pretty sweet too.
With my siblings, two of us are…let’s say husky, though that describes my brother more than me, I’m just straight up overweight. But we both have to struggle. My other two (brother and sister) just…don’t. They’re not the thinnest people on the planet but they’re healthy, they stay in shape by going on short jogs once or twice a month and they don’t have to watch what they eat AT ALL. IT’s SO frustrating. Like yesterday we went to brunch and my brother (who also ran the 10k that morning) ordered the highest calorie thing on the menu. It was like a Monte Cristo plus another pound of fat. I ordered the lowest calorie thing on the menu and did not finish it (although I was pretty close). Today, he’s lost 3lbs and I gained 2.
But this issue isn’t really about your weight. It’s about you and your comfort level in your life. And I think you just have to keep kicking ass and taking names. I would guess that the original person who told you this just feels threatened by you because you ARE put together, you DO look professional and powerful and like they should all be working for you already (instead of just in 5 years when you’re super successful and making millions and they’re begging you for a job!) so she’s intimidated and thinks that by getting up in your head/criticizing you/etc… that she makes herself look better. But she doesn’t. And you shouldn’t let her try to pull herself up on your self esteem.
Trying to be learned
I booked an appointment for a Keratin smoothing appointment for next week. My fingers are crossed.
Thank you so much for your lovely comment. I really liked what you said about making adjustments to my skin before fitting into it (it sounds strange when I say it like that, but you know what I mean!) I know I would be more comfortable with myself – and more confident – if I can figure out how to look an act in a way that is me, but better (if that makes sense.)
You
You are fine the way you are. Smart and motivated. Unique. You need to own that and do things your way while working witin the confines of corporate culture. Repurpose the energy that you are putting towards being someone else (it sounds exhausting) and be the best, most accomplished, Trying that you can be. Not the best Zooey. The best Trying.
Trying to be learned
I had to go to an empty office and cry for a minute (just one!) after reading that lovely comment. Thank you so much.
Blonde Lawyer
While I certainly will not defend your coworker’s rude statements, I will say that in rare circumstances there are some outfits that a shorter/slimmer person can pull of that a taller/broader person cannot. I have a friend who is tall and broad and she wears a lot of wild patterns and bright colors. Think, bright purple leggings or one of the trendy floral blazers. There is also a petite intern at my former office that wore much of the same thing. The poor work-fashion choice was much more obvious on tall broad friend than it was on tiny intern because, well, frankly, there was a lot more flowers and purple to go around.
I strongly disagree though that thin and petite = pretty while tall and plus size does not. Pretty comes in all shapes and sizes. I hope the person giving the criticism meant to say you could pull off wild fashion choices if there was just a little less of it on display.
a.
Umm, the OP said she wears navy suits, pearls, and dresses. I don’t think the coworker said she was displaying too many flowers.
Trying to be learned
Oh gosh – I am the least likely person to wear large florals, and I completely agree with different clothes for different bodies. I am a firm believer in structure, structure, structure in my clothes. I think the criticism was based on how I never look fully pulled together.
Blonde Lawyer
My apologies, I majorly skimmed and just caught the line we were all shocked by.
Divaliscious11
The one thing that sticks out is you are saying that you do A, B & C per this website, but are you being you? Sometimes, I imagine there is an army of young women who look like they are playing dress up because they are so rigidly following the “rules” that they have masked themselves. Navy blue suits and pearls only really look good on navy blue suits & pearls kinda girls. Trying to hard is a turn off in any arena – but telling you in the manner you have relayed really is rude…
And darling there is nothing wrong with being 6 ft tall!! Own it, stand up straight, no slouching, and for goodness sakes, wear your heels if you want!
Trying to be learned
I feel the real me is still in second year university, still trying to figure everything out. I have no idea how to be a grown up – I wish there was an exam that I could pass. So I do try too hard to be the perfect grown-up, which I know is bad, but I don’t know who else to be.
anon
I hear you. When I was laid off from my first CPA job, at a large public accounting firm, I was told I laughed too much, came across as unserious, and needed to work on my personality and professionalism. This was many years ago, and it was suggested I look into a course that was very popular in the 70’s and early 80’s, I can’t recall the name of the company, but it was basically how to act in a professional manner and develop professional relationships. I tried to do all the things you are doing, and got better over time. Practice public speaking. Speaking softly may not be as important as speaking with authority and confidence. I think projecting confidence might go a long way.
Nan
I think I might come off this way too. But I like the way I am. So I just take great glee when people see that the silly fluffy girl turns in kick-ass work product.
he Melitta
As long as you can be serious when you need to be, isn’t it actually BETTER to have a sense of humor at work? I so prefer these people to those who can’t laugh or make a joke at all!
Katharine
This isn’t advice, but all your posts make me picture you as Julia Child (Meryl Streep’s portrayal) and personally I’m totally charmed. And yet, both from that and from my memories of watching her cooking show in the mists of the distant past, I’m pretty sure she was the kind of person who drove some other people up. the. wall.
Also, you say that part of the role of your position is “to prove that you are a good fit for corporate culture” — and maybe you aren’t. Or not a good fit for that particular corporate culture, at any rate. You’re 27. Whatever you end up doing, it sounds as though what you are doing now is an amazing opportunity for you to learn, and to gain skills and experience you can take with you anywhere.
And, yeah, quirk is not a size. And what, exactly, was your coworker trying to say, when you follow the trail of her highly inappropriate comment to its end? That really pretty girls should be using their looks to get ahead? That’s…. kind of what I’m hearing in the background of that little remark. Be yourself. Do what’s right for you. You sound awesome.
Pretzel_Logic
OP, whoever told you all that was RUDE. One recurring theme I’m seeing is the physical aspect–and what I’ve learned from a lifetime of being the tallest girl in the room (sometimes tallest person) is just to own it. I’m 23 and I’m not entirely comfortable with the fact that I apparently intimidate others pretty easily because I’m tall and stand up straight and–clutch your pearls–wear 4″ heels while generally walking around like I know what I’m doing. JOKE’S ON THEM, I don’t. Ha. But that’s generally worked pretty well for me in professional settings and no one tries to walk over me, ever. (Okay, it’s not totally awesome when boys are all shorter than me and more diminutive professors act afraid of me, but you see my point. You apparently are way more friendly than I am and that’s a good thing! I have to work on not putting on my b!tchface, haha.)
Imposter syndrome can absolutely rob you of all confidence in your abilities: focus on the fact that you know how awesome you are at (fill in) and (fill in) and (etc.) and forget about how some catty lady in the office is giving you the stink eye. Something I read once (maybe on ask a manager dot com) was that if I’m feeling like I need a boost to know I’m doing well with work, if I got my paycheck, I’m probably okay. (Obviously, a slight oversimplification, but there’s some truth there.) Keep in mind that this lady said something that was apparently not constructive or helpful and don’t let that shake you up when she’s hovering about next time you’re at work. Good luck, you’re not alone in struggling with this stuff. :)
Nonny
Oh my gosh, yes, I totally pictured Julia Child too, and thought, wow, how cool, I would totally *own* that! I know every size and shape has its upsides and downsides, but as the short, shy person, I would love to be able to walk into a room and have everyone know I am there!
TCFKAG
Okay, having read all these responses and you responses to the responses. I know you think this person was *trying* to be helpful and wasn’t being a witch with a b in this situation, but I think she was. Because you all are in a competitive work environment and she give you “constructive criticism” the basically broke down to “its not what you DO, its who you ARE” — which you can’t change. So ignore the witch. She is so far up in your head right now, you don’t even realize she’s getting up in your head!
You may never be the lady with shiny hair who glides down the hall in heels (and if most of us are honest, neither are we). But you can be a kick-*ss manager who rocks suits or dresses and carries cute purses and who is maybe a little louder than other people, but whose underlings love her because she works her butt off and is honest and goes to the matts for them. Focus on you and being the best worker you can be. I understand imposter syndrome, trust me, I have it bad — but the only thing we can do is fake it ’til we make it. But you have to fake being YOU making it, because if you fake being someone else making it, well its just too many layers and its all bound to collapse in on itself.
new york associate
Exactly. This is excellent advice.
a.
Yes yes yes. This is it exactly.
anon
I am young, like you, and although I am a petite, glossy-haired, pearl-wearing type, I struggle with this same issue all the time. I feel like I am never “perfect” enough–to succeed, I must be 1) perfectly articulate, but never loud, 2) attractive and well-dressed, but not sexy, and not toooo well-dressed as to make other women feel insecure, 3) feminine, yet simultaneously unemotional and with a flawless facade, like nothing phases me, 4) giving the appearance of being independent and confident, yet without ever saying the “wrong” thing, and 5) cheerful, yet not “peppy.” All this, of course, must happen while working 12+ hours a day. (Let me not even start on the men who don’t realize that for those of us who don’t have wives at home, we must do our own laundry, shop for our own food, pay our own bills, and clean our own homes. And wax, and pluck, and shave, and coordinate outfits, and blow-dry, and straighten…)
Men seem to have a much wider range of people they can “be,” as long as they don’t cross very distant and very clear lines. Women, on the other hand, have to conform to ONE stereotype, the one you describe, lest the be judged. I am convinced that this is true, because the male partners at my firm have a range of personal quircks–they can be rude, aggressive, stubborn, forgetful, inappropriate, flustered, even senile, and difficult to work with. The female partners, however, are all “perfect.”
Who knows? May be we are perpetuating the problem by forcing ourselves to conform to this stereotype.
anon
and, a man would NEVER be told that he’s not “good-looking” enough to pull off a certain personality.
so I guess what I am trying to say is–it’s not YOU. it’s WOMEN, of all shapes and sizes and hairstyles. we will NEVER be good enough–until we can figure out how to fight these unrealistic and unfair expectations.
Anon-Y
This.
cbackson
My most important professional mentor, who worked at a very high level in the White House, wore funky maxi dresses, crazy hats, and bright red lipstick. At the end of the day, sometimes she walked around the office barefoot. Now, did she do that when she was junior? Probably not. But I bet she was never a suit-and-pearls type.
Here’s the thing, trying: you’ve got to be you. A navy suit and a Kate Spade bag won’t make you a professional woman. Yes, corporate culture matters. But it sounds like you’re trying so hard that your effort is visible to others. That’s what they’re picking up on when they tell you to relax. – it’s not your insufficiently straightened hair or your consciously modified voice. It’s your fear.
Rules are helpful. This site, and NGDGTCO, and all the other advice to professional women out there is helpful. But it’s not helpful if it smothers you. It can’t turn you into someone you’re not, and it *shouldn’t*. You can’t be successful as someone you’re not; you can only be successful as you.
new york associate
Oh honey, you are me and I love you for it. I am exactly your size, and I have spent too much of my life trying to be the model girl for this website — you know, the skinny, smooth-haired, elegant woman who glides down the hallway, who is exquisitely turned out, whose shoes are always polished, whose makeup never slips, who is efficient, who looks great in a sharp Armani suit.
Guess what? It’s not me. And I am DONE wasting my time trying to fit into a look that doesn’t look like me.
I look fine in a suit and have some that I like (and some that I hate!) but I’m not a size 2 and a suit will never look as polished on me as it does on Portia DeRossi. So I wear skirts and tights and dresses, often with blazers, and feel more comfortable and more like myself, as much as I can.
And I’m really tall! I’m taller than most of the men in my office (and probably outweigh them, more’s the pity.). I went to a recent trial workshop where every woman was advised to take up more space in the room except for me! But whatever. I am owning my height, and I am owning my size, and I am confident. I refuse to slouch in my chair to be shorter at meetings, or to wear heels that are anything other than what I most want to wear. I’m a big girl and I CLAIM my territory.
And I’m enthusiastic, not reserved. I giggle on occasion. I’m friendly (NOT JOLLY!) But you know what? If people want a litigator who’s a jerk, they have a million options to choose from in this city. You know what’s hard to find? A litigator who works her butt off and who is a lovely person to be with. That is who I am and I own it.
So what I’m saying is this: the issue isn’t your suits or your size, your hair or your enthusiasm. It’s your confidence. If you trust yourself and are confident about yourself, you will project that confidence to others. You will seem more relaxed, because you’re not trying so hard. You will be easier for others to be with. And you will be happier.
So how do you do that? If I knew, I could have saved myself a whole lot of time and a whole lot of tears. I think it is worth investing in some other activity, not work-related, that makes you feel good about yourself. When do you feel happiest and most confident and yourself? Is it seeing theater? Cooking? Exercise? Music? Doing some sort of physical project? Find a way to do that. Let that energy stay with you into work.
Honey, I wish you and I could go out for a cup of coffee. We can share plus-sized professional clothes, and remind each other to stand up straight. And I would give you a hug and tell you that the glorious thing about becoming an adult is that you get to decide that your size does not matter. What matters is your confidence, your energy, your brain, and how you carry yourself.
Jennifer
This was really beautiful. I think it’s great advice. Your coworker (let’s assume s/he was well-meaning) may be right that something is “off” but got the thing wrong. It’s probably not your clothes, or your quirks, or your size. You might be trying too hard, and that can come off as inauthentic and make people uncomfortable, even if they’re not sure why. So just do everything new york associate, who is obviously a genius, says.
Nonny
Wow, new york associate, that was amazing and such great advice. I am not Trying and I am still feeling all emotional about what you wrote.
Wednesday
I’m pasting and saving away what you’ve said here, New York Associate – this is great advice.
new york associate
You are all so nice. Thank you for reading my opus! (I clearly got fired up by this question.)
Trying to be learned
Thank you so much for that lovely, lovely comment. I don’t even know what to say – but I wish I could have coffee with you too.
mamabear
I am a senior manager and I would love to have an enthusiastic, charming and funny trainee working for me. I think it’s telling that someone at your level told you this rather than someone who is your manager. Perhaps she’s jealous. Maybe because you do take up more space, you are getting noticed more than she is, you know what I meant?
I’ve been 5’10” all my career, and borderline plus sized for most of it (14/16.) I have always, always regarded my height as an advantage. While I don’t exactly love the clothing size I wear, it doesn’t say anything about who I am as a professional & I just forget about it while I’m working.
All of your attributes sound like definite positives, not negatives, so keep working them, maybe with a little more confidence from what all these lovely women are saying to you today.
mamabear
OK – I can’t resist sharing one anecdote about a trainee who did turn me off with her “quirky” personality.
The day after I met her, we were walking toward each other in the hallway, and she said, loudly, “Bitch, give me those shoes!”
But I’m sure you’re not that stupid. :)
In Disbelief
That literally made me gasp as I read it. How on earth did you respond?
mamabear
I did not respond.
Anony
LOL!!!
stay just the way you are
Take a look at the leadership at your organization. I bet it’s fair to guess there are some really dynamic personalities there. At my organization, none of the top-level females are any sort of shrinking violet.
Guess what, being enthusiastic and intense means you’re passionate about what you do. That passion is what’s going to help you rise. Don’t cover it. It’s better to be memorable for your energy than just another face blending in to it all. I’m 38. And the older I get, the more I see how important it is to be genuine. People respect that. A professional is someone who knows the material up and down and behaves with the appropriate amount of discretion–but it doesn’t mean having to try to moderate your voice or worry whether your head is tilting or not tilting at the right time or if your hair is kinky or straight. Heck, while you’re worried about all that stuff, you’re missing out on what matters–the conversation! People are attracted to confidence. So don’t let someone in your ear take yours away. Got out there and just own it.
ATC
You’re probably just too nice and friendly for the workplace. Realize that there will be those that will (1) gossip about what a “silly weirdo” you are, and (2) will be happy to use that against you and get the better assignments/promotions/etc. With that in mind, do you feel like smiling and joking with the same people that will judge you or compete with you? Probably not. That alone should help you tone it down a bit.
ATC
And while all the “just be yourself” advice is confidence boosting, and confidence is very important, I still say to be cautious, especially since you work in a place where a co-worker will say to your face that you’re unprofessional. Odds are that you don’t work in a place where everyone will embrace you for “owning” your quirky self. You gotta know your office and act accordingly.
And as a fellow tall person, that’s nothing but a good thing, work wise. You probably can get away with being a little more silly/goofy to counteract your imposing stature. Not sure where your co-worker was going with the pretty girl thing. Usually pretty girls have to be more serious to show they are competent and professional and didn’t just get the job because the hiring partner/boss thought they were hot.
Average Size
ATC, I agree. Size shouldn’t be an issue, but unfortunately, it is. (Just like how our hair style shouldn’t be an issue, or tattoos, in today’s thread. We can’t change how the world works, or at least very quickly.)
Women that are small and have tiny voices have to take extra steps to make sure they are being taken seriously by larger people.
I didn’t realize the same was true unless I had a co-worker who was over 6 feet. She was very assertive. But what would come off as assertive for a smaller woman, came off as aggressive when she said it, because she towered over everyone. She also had a tendency to lean in, which basically meant leaning over people. It made her very intimidating. She kicked butt, and used the same personality on opposing counsel, but she really scared a lot of the support staff.
This obviously isn’t your issue. No one has told you that you are scary. But size does play into how people view you.
AMB
Another Ottawa-ette, fellow public servant maven, I think I only have a few years of experience on you but would be happy to sit down and have a drink sometime. I’m on my way out of town but email me at annabailie at gmail.com
Trying to be learned
I will!
AnonInfinity
Threadjack for the medically-minded Corporettes — I’ve recently been asked to help with a case involving medical issues (pretty technical stuff). Does anyone know of a medical dictionary app for the iphone that an educated layperson would find useful? It doesn’t have to be free, but I’d like to pay less than $50.
PollyD
Sometimes just looking on Wikipedia or WebMD can help. Also try patient advocacy sites if you are looking at specific diseases. These sites are generally written for a lay audience and can be both very informative and understandable. Mayo Clinic is pretty good, too.
Don’t know of any apps, sorry.
Coalea
I’m not app-savvy (no smartphone) but I do know that there are different software packages that you can download that will spell check medical terminology, Rx names, etc. Google will turn up a lot of options, if you are interested.
DJ
When I was getting my undergraduate degree in Occupational Therapy, one of the text books we turned to most for all things medical was the Merck Manual. Looks like they have an iphone app for $34.99 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/merck-manual-professional/id331016312?mt=8
DJ
Although, on second thought, the Merck Manual is more a diagnosis/treatment manual than a straight ‘dictionary’… but take a look, it could prove useful!
Frugal City Girl
Ladies, what do you wear when it’s spring but cold and rainy? I feel silly wearing greens and light blues when it’s so dark and damp outside, but I also don’t want to keep wearing my winter office clothes until possibly the end of May. Is there a middle ground for “it’s not winter, the weather’s just being miserable”, or should I suck it up and keep wearing my heavier wool and darker colours?
Sparkles
I like lighter neutrals, like camel and gray.
Supra
I’m wearing a wool skirt, tights and boots today. I generally go by weather, not calendar. Its miserable and I’d much prefer to be in my spring clothes, but I’m more comfortable in my warmer clothes when its colder.
KC
Same here. I let the weather dictate my outfit for the most part. If wearing darker colors makes me feel too glum, I’ll add in bright accessories. It also helps I have a number of bright colored winter clothes (think a canary yellow sweater, etc.) that help infuse a little cheer.
Frugal City Girl
Good idea about accessories. I’m not so much thinking about wearing thinner/cooler clothes, just that it’s making me feel really bummed out to keep wearing my darker colours after the long autumn/winter period. Spring and summer colours get so little time to play, I hate missing them!
AIMS
I don’t think you have to worry about colors. It’s rainy and in the 50s but the trees are green and there are flowers everywhere. If you want to wear spring colors, go for it. The only thing I’d watch for is being dressed appropriately for the temprature. A seersucker will look obviously out of place but I think a beige skirt with a green top and a khaki trench – as long as you are warm enough – would look totally fine. If anything, I think autumn colors like eggplant or russet would look a tad out of place right now, esp. if paired together .
FWIW, I am wearing black and gray today because that’s what I wear most of the time regardless of season, but I was actually just lamenting that I don’t have a coat in a cute springy color, or at least in a light neutral like light gray or camel.
CA Atty
I bought a (few, bad CA Atty!) new spring work dress yesterday and I’m wearing it today despite the sad lack of sun. I feel springier! And it’s not THAT cold where I am. I did chose a more muted black and purple rather than (for instance) the yellow and pink dress, but it still makes me happy when I look down! :-)
a.
Yeah dude. I’ve got on tights under my skirt, boots, and a turtleneck (brightly-colored, but still a turtleneck). I’m not going to freeze myself to death wearing my spring-weight clothes just cause the calendar says it should be spring.
Bonnie
If I have to revert to pants and sweaters, I try to wear a springy top underneath the cardi. This weather is such a tease. I got a sunburn riding my bike Saturday but was freezing in a fleece yesterday.
qwerty
i’m wearing a dark light-weight button front skirt, black opaque tights, and a very heavy wool brightly colored plaid skirt (think all primary colors). i wore a dark trench over my outfit today. i’d normally wear this skirt with a sweater in the winter. i hate this kind of spring weather. ick.
qwerty
dark light-weight button front shirt*
PollyD
I spent last weekend putting away my winter clothes and buying sandals. You can all thank me for this lovely (East Coast) weather.
Had to dig a wool sweater out this morning. Bah.
NOLA
We had an abnormally warm winter and thought we were full steam ahead toward summer than voila there was a cold front. Went to leave the house on Saturday night and had to go back in and put on a sweater and scarf. Last night I had dinner with a candidate and was back in tights and a sweater (dug out from my winter closet). It’s 60 degrees right now!
MaggieLizer
When it’s cr*ppy outside I always feel the need to rebel against the weather and wear my brightest, most spring-inspired outfit. My rain boots have more pastel on them than is ever acceptable for any article of clothing. I guess the rebellious teenager in me never really went away!
Nonny
You’ve just described the weather for pretty much the whole year where I live, except for maybe July 1-September 15. The way I handle it is to transition in clothes that might still be wintry fabrics (like lightweight wool), but in brighter colours, and I continue to wear tights based on weather, regardless of the calendar month. I also do a lot of layering – I wear a lot of cardigans which I can take off on days when and if the weather warms up. I also have a lot of jazzy, colourful spring scarves that will brighten up my coat if I still need to wear cold-weather outerwear.
a.
Question. I have a first-round interview for a position in my no. 1 goal industry this afternoon. One of my interviewers is a professional acquaintance of my mother. I’ve met her once, super-briefly, a few years ago–I didn’t even remember until my mom was like, “You’re interviewing with X? Remember when you met her at that thing?” I have no idea if the interviewer knows who I am, or that I’m connected to my mother–I do have a hyphenated, not super-common surname, and am clearly from the same place that both my mom and the interviewer live.
If she doesn’t bring up my mom, should I? I would probably handle it in the way of, “Oh, Interviewer, when I told my mom Mom’s Name that I was interviewing with you, she asked me to say hello.” But when? At the beginning? At the end?
In conclusion, I am probably way over-thinking this but I really want to be employed.
AN
I wouldn’t bring it up unless she does. If you do, it may come across like you’re trying to gain extra points through your mum’s acquaintance with her.
Ellie
No advice, but good luck!
Ellie
OK updating to add: if it were me, when I met interviewer at the beginning of the meeting, I would shake hands, smile, and say “So good to see you. I think we met once, briefly, at X.” But I’m young and possibly way off base.
anon
No – as someone who has been on hiring side, this sounds SO much more professional than “My mom says hi”. Please phrase it like this instead.
MOR
I would say exactly this, providing that, once you see her, you do actually remember meeting her. I wouldn’t pretend to remember meeting her based on your Mom saying that you did, because that could get tricky. That said, your mom may have the memory of an elephant, but I wouldn’t trust my mother’s memory over mine, so your results may vary!
a.
Also good advice, and thanks to Ellie for the good luck. I think I’m just going to see how it goes and whether she brings it up or not.
guest
I wouldn’t bring it up, but if the interviewer does, tell her your mom told you to say hello. Otherwise it sounds like you’re trying to get the job based on your mom knowing her.
a.
Not wanting to seem like I was trying to get a leg up would be why I asked you ladies this question instead of fumbling blindly ahead :)
But at the same time–how is that different from networking? If I say, had a coworker who knew the interviewer, would it still be weird for me to mention him or her? Or is that verboten as well? I am young and clueless.
Anonymous
Also being of unusual hyphenated last name and from a particularly close place, she’ll probably recognize you and bring it up. And yeah, I’d just do the “oh yes, my mom said to say hi” and play it off. Don’t let the talk from home take over the whole interview.
I think its different from bringing up a professional contact because, in that case, you’re discussing someone whom they could contact or might know to get a sense of your work product. Your mother, presumably, doesn’t know much about your drafting skills.
phillygirlruns
i think the difference is nepotism. being professionally connected to a peer or colleague or mentor is different than being related to someone by accident of birth. i wouldn’t bring it up, but for a slightly different reason than others mentioned – at work i don’t like to emphasize that i am, in fact, young enough to be the child of someone i’m speaking with.
MissJackson
If you want to bring it up, I would instead focus on the fact that you have met the interviewer before. “I’m not sure if you recall, but we were introducted at [name of event]. It’s a pleasure to see you again.” If she responds with something like, “oh, yes, how is your mother?” then you can send her regards.
Sadie
agree with MissJackson, for sure. I probably wouldn’t bring it up unless when you see her, you remember. If she brings it up, I would go with whatever direction she takes , ie, “didn’t we meet at X event? ” “why, yes, we did” or “Oh, is abc your mother?” or “Oh, your last name ix xyz, I know several people with that name” then “yes, actually my mother is ABC, she sends her regards”.
Do not say “Oh, my mom said to tell you Hi”.
Just…don’t.
Ruby
agree no hi from mommy
a.
Those are both good suggestions, thanks.
Anon
I recently applied for a position for which a person in the hiring chain is an aquaintence of my parents’ and I met him a couple of years ago. Since the ad listed his name/email as the contact for any questions, I generated a couple of genuine ones, emailed him, and mentioned that we’d met. He responded quickly, claimed to remember the meeting, answered my questions, etc.
If they choose to interview me, that won’t be why, but it solves in advance the problem of him possibly wondering why my name sounds familiar; gives me smalltalk topics with him should I interview; gives a face to my name; reminds him that he once met me and that I’m warm and personable (legit requirements for this position.)
I would absolutely remind her, should you interview, that you’d previously met, as that’s perfectly reasonable and polite, and lets her place you if she was trying to figure out how she knew you. No one thinks you’re expecting an offer based on the prior meeting or the relationship.
D Train South
I’m in the camp that says to bring it up yourself, as “It’s nice to see you. I don’t know if you remember, but we met at X.” This is a little bit of flattery, but avoids any direct reference to your mother. I have the memory of an elephant, and I hate it when others don’t remember that we’ve met before, esp. when I think they SHOULD remember. If I were the interviewer, I would not want to be the one to mention it.
AN
Due to give birth tomorrow…..v excited to finally meet my baby girl, and also nervous…though it isn’t my first.
Yay!!
PharmaGirl
Congrats and best of luck. Are you being induced?
AN
No, it is a planned c section. My first was an emergency Caesar.
My actual due date is, ironically, may 1 / labour day:)
MaggieLizer
Best of luck with the procedure and congrats on baby!
S in Chicago
Congrats! Hope you pamper yourself a bit today and take it easy. Such an exciting time! Lots of happy thoughts to you and your soon-to-be expanding family.
Frugal City Girl
Congratulations and good luck! :)
DC Jenny
Good luck!
Susan
Good luck and happy (early) b-day wishes to Baby AN. :-)
Houda
You will have playdates with Diana :D
(Sorry I just couldn’t help thinking of this)
in-House Europe
Warning pregnancy talk ahead!! :)
TJ…but I will start off on-topic. I ordered a jacket similar to the above from Belly Button (it just doesn’t actually close in the middle) as a good option this summer/fall when I start showing…
cause people I am preggo! :)
I am also the one who just got the fancy new title…Our CEO warned me that people might be jealous of the promotion – and I think we conceived quite literally the day the promotion became official. Which although we decided to officially start trying around then didn’t really expect it to happen so quickly…I am in my mid-30s after all…
Even though I won’t be saying anything for a few months, I’ve already prepared a written coverage plan…but I assume some people are still gonna be a little annoyed…Any tips as to how to minimize this??
OK, happy monday everyone and thanks as always for the advice! :=)
Anon
Congratulations on both fronts! I don’t have any advice, but I am curious to hear what people have to say, as I hope to be in a similar position. I also just stepped into a new role with more responsibility, and did so while just barely pregnant. Only to lose that pregnancy at the 10 week mark. As soon as I am medically cleared, we’re going to start again and I am already worried about the coverage issues, etc. that you mention.
AN
I am all over this thread today! I was in this exact position a year ago. Honestly
– accept that it is what it is. Some people will be jealous, some will snark, some will be happy.
– you got the promotion for your good work in the past, hence it is deserved, regardless of a future pregnancy
– you can plan to get pregnant but cannot time it. Who knows, it might have taken one year to get preggo …right? Men get promoted and might jump ship in a month or two. So don’t beat yourself up.
– focus on doing the job well for the next 9 mths, discuss with the boss ( when it is right for you to do so) and prepare a coverage plan etc
– just tell nosy Parkers that the job and baby stars aligned at the same time
Good luck!
two lines, too
I wish there was a generic ‘right time’ to tell. It’s such a YMMV situation. As someone who started a position with a new employer 6 weeks pregnant, and is now 11 weeks pregnant and hasn’t told, I feel like I lose either way. Sigh.
Susan
Double congrats!
Some people will always get annoyed when they see someone (else) get a promotion. There’s no pleasing them so don’t waste energy trying. You’ve got a coverage plan, you’re being responsible to your employer and to your colleagues, so take comfort in that. I’d spend my energy refining the plan, identifying who my real allies are, making sure bases are covered, and then enjoy the pregnancy!
Anon for this
Ironically, I’m about to give birth to my second, and I both stated this to my Dad this morning and gave it as advice to a younger lawyer – I don’t need anyone to validate my choices, or the firm’s choices. You have nothing to apologize for or feel bad about. Yes, your maternity leave will affect the company – and in turn, your fellow employees – but you just get through it, ignore the negativity, and don’t give a [insert word of choice here] what anyone else thinks.
Plan, document your work, make sure that there is backup, and stay in touch. That’s all you can do – and your work product speaks for itself.
Anon for this
Savings threadjack: the thread last week about saving a really large down payment for a house got me thinking about whether I’m really saving as much as I can. What proportion of your net income are you saving each month? Not 401ks and the like, but actual cash.
DH and I both have high salaries, but rent (big East Coast city) and student loan payments combined is approximately 42% of our net income, whereas our savings is roughly 13.5%. When we have any extra money in our budget it goes either to credit cards, if needed, or savings.
I know that we could live more frugally, and I’d love to hear what other people are doing!
Anonynonynony
We try to prioritize savings based on relative rate of return.
If you are carrying credit card debt, that should be your first priority because the percentage of interest charged on those is astronomical. Then, we usually pay off student loan debt with our extra cash because our high interest ones right now are at almost 8% and no other investment is returning 8% right now. (That should be noted, is extra money on top of maxing out the 401K and stuff). Once we get rid of those high interest rate loans, then we may have to reconsider, but right now, all the other savings options are returning lower rates than that. So that’s how we prioritize.
SpaceMountain
I subscribe to the theory of funding various future plans, rather than generic “saving.” So the money we set aside is for something specific. We put the max allowed into our retirement accounts, for example, and I’m currently funding my children’s college savings accounts. I have a fund for our next new car, and so on. When money was tighter, we allocated almost all our income on a monthly basis, including allocating money monthly to have enough for holiday presents at the end of the year, etc. The beauty of this system is, let’s say you fund $400/month for clothes, but you don’t buy any clothes this month, then next month you have $800 in that fund and can spend it all without guilt because you know you have budgeted for it. (That is, assuming you stick to the plan for the rest of your income, as well.) So, it’s really about priorities and planning your spending. What are your plans? What do you want to buy in the future? Are you saving for a trip, a car, a down payment, new clothes? Random saving doesn’t do it for me, but funding my future spending is much more fun.
SoHo
This is what I do, too. It makes it so much easier for me to save (and not dip into savings) if there is a specific goal that I know the money will fund in the future. I am early in life / career, so I have a lot of large goals in the near future. When I got my first job, I first started to build an emergency fund while contributing ~10% to my 401(k). A few years ago when I got a raise, I started to max out my 401(k), then finished the emergency fund (1 year of expenses) a couple of years ago, then moved to a wedding fund (which will be used next year!). Now, my fiance and I are saving toward an apartment, and are focusing cash savings (after 401(k) max contribution) on a down payment (which will have to be large here in NYC). Tackling each of these goals sequentially has really helped me stay focused and motivated in saving (as has treating myself sometimes rather than trying to save every penny!).
DF and I get the majority of our income in bonus form, so we live on our salary and funnel 90% of our bonuses to savings. If you and DH have high salaries (vs. getting paid in bonus form), I would aim to figure out what your monthly expenses are (I use Mint) and then give yourself a small cushion (in both the budget and your checking account), then pay yourself first. In other words, when you get your paycheck, I would immediately transfer anything not needed to cover the household expenses you calculated directly into an online savings or brokerage account (now, getting a decent investment return is a different story). I think this is a common way for people to meet their savings goals, as you’re likely to save more this way rather than if you just save whatever is left in your checking account at month-end.
Good luck!
a.
I put 18%-ish of my take-home pay into savings. I am not well-compensated, so that’s not actually as much cash as it probably sounds like, or would be for you and your hubs. I don’t feel more or less motivated by having specific goals like SpaceMountain, although I do have a budget and track my spending through Mint. I’m a grad of a more recent vintage, so at this point I’m really just trying to build a cushion, especially since my job ends in July.
hellskitchen
DH and I just decided to save for a house so we are now trying to live off his salary and bank all of mine for one year. It’s not easy but it forces us to focus on the needs (e.g. his student loan payments) and only meet some of our wants, not all. We still eat out, go to movies etc. because we really need that to de-stress but we aren’t doing expensive vacations this year.
anon
I recently upped the percentage I’m putting in retirement, so it’s harder to save as much cash from my take-home pay. I usually average 8-12%. It was closer to 20% before I was maxing out retirement funds.
AttiredAttorney
I’m three years into my career and also a part-time law student. Rent and utilities take up around 30% of my take home pay, and I put another 30% into cash savings (which gets half emptied each semester for tuition). For retirement, I’m just doing 15% of total, pre-tax income at the moment, but will hopefully bump that up significantly when I’m done with school in two years.
Coverage Plan
Congrats to In-House Europe above –
On a related topic, for those of you who have been pregnant, what’s your outline for coming up with a ‘coverage plan’? I’m an attorney and the only female attorney in my relatively small firm of 9 attorneys, and as we’re actively trying, I’ve been thinking what about how to provide a plan that crosses and dots all the t’s and i’s appropriately to my employer. My ‘plan’ includes:
A book of my projects and upcoming tasks and where information is located
A list of important client info and background information
Copies of deadlines
My availability by phone/email while out
What else would you put in, and how would you present it?
Margaret
At my office, we hand off each matter to a specific coworker. For each coworker taking over a matter, I am
* meeting with them ahead of time to discuss big issues
* sending them a short memo with the info about the current status of the case and important facts and deadlines
* transferring my hard copy files (my office will be empty)
* “sharing” my email folder with them so they can access all emails.
I will provide my secretary and the head of my dep’t with a list of who is in charge of each case, my contact info, and a copy of each of the work memos.
OP here -
I’m just wondering, how long was your maternity leave? Your plan sounds really good, but maybe drastic for me (as a non-FMLA, I won’t take more than 8 weeks unless medically necessary).
Margaret
I’ll be out 4-6 months, and my cases are all going to be active while I’m out. This is pretty standard protocol for my firm.
AN
Sounds pretty comprehensive to me. I just did mine last week:)
Maybe highlight urgent stuff, if any? And make sure people have a list of contacts (external) in case they need to call them, etc.
Blonde Lawyer
**WARNING – GAME OF THRONES SPOILER ALERT** Scroll past if it is DVR’d.
Can I just say how much I hate rats? Can I also say how much I hate torture scenes? Was not a fan of last night’s episode.
And the thing teen-king-boy handed to the prostitute? Was that for beating or penetrating? Ugh either way.
cc
It was too much for me last night. I couldn’t sleep at all after it. at first I thought penetrating and almost threw up, but it seemed like beating right before they cut away. I’m going to try to convince myself it was beating.
I might be to sensitive for the show even though I love it. it is great writing and characters, but I was lying awake until like 4 a.m. last night doing an arya impression. jeoffry. cersai. man with rats. so tired today and just still feeling unsettled from the jeoffry scene.
cc
oh also I was thinking, how old is the actor that plays joffry in real life? i feel like that scene might totally mess you up. like in the head.
Bonnie
It looks like he’s 19 and the girl that plays Sansa is 18.
Blonde Lawyer
I had trouble sleeping too but didn’t want to admit it in my first post. ;)
Bonnie
That was the most disturbing episode so far. I think I may have skimmed through those pages in the book.
cc
my bf didn’t think it was in the book
CW
I don’t remember the beating happening in the book. I remember Tyrion realizing that Joffrey needed to get some, so I believe that was the intent, and I think the TV show decided to play up his sadistic nature. But yeah, it was super disturbing.
Also, I don’t think the rats scene happened in the book (but I may have blocked that out). And, I don’t think that anyone realized that Arya was a girl at that point either.
DC Jenny
The beating and the rats were definitely not in the book.
a.
Yup. Haven’t watched it yet, but there were no beatings (either of Joffrey or of a prostitute by Joffrey, whichever, am unclear based on the comments), no rats, and no one should know Arya’s a girl yet based on where they left off in the last episode.
Ellie
UGH SO GROSS. All of it. If the series had started out with episodes like that, I”m not sure I would have made it past the first one (and I’m reading the books). I don’t remember any of the super creepy parts being in the book… even the whole “giving birth to a demon” thing but maybe I just missed that? It seemed like a big event to just throw in there.
Agree with cc that I originally thought penetration and freaked, but am 99.9% sure it was beating once they cut away.
a.
Giving birth to a demon was in there.
Barrister in the Bayou
Ugh, I was so skeeved out and angry after watching the episode. But I felt that way during certain scenes while reading the book. The author takes care not to sugar coat things and that leads to some pretty gritty moments.
I’m pretty sure it was a beating because they showed the one holding the object taking a swing.
Also, Melisandre did “give birth” to some sort of “demon” in the book. But I think I was more of a shapeless shadow.
While I wasn’t crazy about this episode, I can’t wait to see how the rest of the season plays out.
Eloise Spaghetti
Ugh I hate Geoffrey. He is the worst. I think that thing was for beating with the deer horn side. But I thought the same thing about penetration. The rats thing was really really gross too. The demon thing was weird.
The whole episode creeped me out but I am excited for Aria to spy on the Lanisters and for the dragon queen to go to Qarth which was the most beautiful looking place ever.
Eloise Spaghetti
I am totally spelling the names wrong. Obviously I did not read the books…
Chihiro
I’m thinking about pulling the trigger on a pink David Meister sheath dress with the Saks F&F sale (link to follow). Is all-pink too much for the office? Love the cut and design of the dress, but am a bit worried about channeling Elle Woods (am not blonde or blue-eyed, though).
Chihiro
Link to dress: http://www.saksfifthavenue.com/main/ProductDetail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524446467003&R=884176589312&P_name=David+Meister&sid=136DEA69587E&Ntt=David+Meister&N=0&bmUID=jrw7s8s
Bonnie
I love that dress. Go for it. I don’t think it’s too much for the office, especially because the cut is so classic.
michelle
I like it; it doesn’t seem to be a screaming pink but more of a spring colorful vibe pink…
magnolia
do it.
KC
I think as long as the rest of the styling isn’t too girly (high pink heels, tiny purse, etc.), the dress is office appropriate.
DeGirl
I love it. Curious – what are you going to pair it with? any jacket or sweater you thought of?
Anon
Important bag question: I am six months pregnant and will be starting at a firm post-baby. I need recommendations for bag(s) to carry. I would like to simplify as much as possible but will need to carry all the usual stuff plus a breast pump and my lunch. And have room to carry home the occasional file. I would really like to avoid carrying three bags and would like to look as professional and put together as possible. I do not want to spend a fortune but would be willing to spend $200-300. Also seeking any logistical tips on making this assortment of carry- to-job items be as organized as possible.
PharmaGirl
Have you already picked out your breast pump? I used the Medela pump in style with the metro bag. The metro bag was the only one that allowed for removing the pump from the bag; most pumps are built into the bag. I left the pump in my office and carried the expressed milk in a cooler bag in a backpack. I could also pack my laptop in the same backpack, along with lunch if I brought. This bag got super heavy which is why I opted for hte backpack. A roller bag would work just fine too. I carried a separate handbag for personal stuff (Kindle, wallet, phone, etc).
V
I found that it was hard to combine things outside of one of those giant IKEA bags. Recommend the pumps that come in their own bags in addition to your normal bag lineup. The pump and bottles just take up a ton of space, but in one bag, you can be sure you won’t forget it / leave it in the car on a hot day /leave it at home. After year 1, my bag luggage dropped by half (pump bag + bottle bag to drop off with baby) and it was heaven. GOOD LUCK!
elz
If it is possible, I suggest leaving the pump at work. Maybe have one at home and one at work if you need. It is so much easier than schlepping 8,000 things around every day. I’d look for a leather tote bag (Banana Republic usually has some) if you are going to haul everything around.
Oh, and Congratulations!
bhtsmama
I have the Medela Freestyle, which I was happy with for Kid1 but now is not quite up to teh task, maybe it needs to be serviced or maybe I’m just not hydrating enough…but it’s TINY. Like the size of one of those old yellow Sony Discman Sport things. I have it in a large cosmetic bag, use a BuiltNY lunch bag for bottles + ice pack, and leave a Tupperware container with parts (2 sets) in my office (I clean them there with Medela wipes/soap & water/micro steam bag, whatever is easiest at that moment, and take them home for dishwasher on Friday, also have extra parts at home). The other variation on this is to rent a hospital grade pump and tote just parts/bag back and forth, with maybe a smaller, cheaper pump for when you really need it at home. I am considering renting HG now and using Freestyle just for home.
Concerned 2L
For the legal ladies here, especially those who graduated during the bad times for law firm hiring: did anyone have to deal with the firm where you summered closing, or going bankrupt, before you graduated? Any advice?
More generally, has anyone gotten a job upon graduation that was at a different firm from the one you summered at? How did you arrange 3L interviews? I know that career services might be able to help with this, but I’m getting nervous and would like to be as fully prepared as possible.
Thanks so much!
anon too
I was an accounting major as an undergraduate, and I interned at Arthur Andersen, which closed a week after my internship ended. It has never hurt me. Any employer worth its salt understands that sometimes businesses go out of business. (Note, I was told that I would have received a full-time offer had the firm not went under, and I was able to share that during interviews.)
During law school, I summered at a large regional law firm, and then, I went to get an LL.M. in tax. During the LL.M., I interviewed with many firms, and I simply expressed that while I loved working at large regional firm that I was looking for a broader practice. In your case, it should be easy to explain why you are looking, as your firm closed.
I have switched law firms twice since 2009, and every law firm seems to understand that it is really tough out there right now. Just network as much as possible. Use contacts from your “old” firm to get a job, and although it will take a lot of sweat equity, I am sure you will eventually find a suitable position.
ELS
I would venture a guess that MOST of the recent grads (myself included – 2011 grad) ended up at firms that are not the same as the one we summered at, at least those of us who are not in BigLaw.
My advice is to work your network. I got a job after passing the bar and started the week before I was sworn. This seems to have been the case for many of my peers as well. While I went on numerous interviews as a 3L, most were uninterested in offering formal employment until bar results were posted.
MaggieLizer
Ditto networking. It takes a lot of time to yield results, which is great for you right now, but it’s not something you want to be falling back on this time next year when you’re about to graduate. Reach out to your alumni network in the city where you want to work; if you don’t live nearby, try to make a few trips over the summer to meet people in person if it’s feasible.
3L interviewing is tough, but it definitely helps if the firm closed vs. no-offered you, regardless of the circumstances of the no-offer. Once you’ve exhausted the resources at your career services office, ask if you can partner with career services at another school. Good luck!
Lyssa
I got no-offered from my summers, as did a lot of people in my class (2009). I won’t sugar-coat it, it stunk. I did get asked at a lot of interviews whether I was still entertaining an offer from them or why I hadn’t gotten an offer (my best answer was that they just didn’t give them out or only gave out one, which was true. If I did anything wrong, they kept it a secret, and I ran into people I’d worked with who always indicated that they had a really positive experience with me). I think that being able to say that the firm went bust would be easier, since that’s clearly not your fault.
For interviews, my campus had some for 3Ls, and I went to any that would have me, and sent resumes everywhere I could find an opening. It was a very stressful time, and I went on a lot of fruitless interviews (at the time, most firms were not hiring, but had not yet admitted that things were as bad as they were, so they were still putting on the appearance). However, I ultimately got a job as a law clerk through a late hiring state trial court that did on-campus interviews. This didn’t happen until spring, though, so it was definitely a tough time. Wound up being a wonderful job, though.
My best advice is to go to and volunteer for any event that you can that might have the slightest chance of having attorneys present, talk to your professors, and send resumes to as many outlets as will have them. And be prepared to get a lot of nos before you finally get to yes. Good luck.
Nickey
No, but friends have. I have a friend from class of 2010 who is still deferred from a certain funny-name firm that has been doing really badly recently and getting a decent amount of mainstream press (not just law blogs, but things like the NYT). And I summered at a firm that isn’t doing so well, where a week in to my summer, I knew that even if they made me an offer (which seemed highly unlikely), I would be miserable there.
So as soon as my summer job ended (July), I started looking for new work. This included clerkship apps, online (school job posting) apps, OCI/on-campus recruiting, etc. I did a lot of networking that didn’t do much for me (the two jobs I have held have been through real friends, not grown-ups I met while looking for jobs), but I don’t regret making the effort. And for me, networking was more reaching-out-to-undergrad-alums online (at least initially) than going-to-huge-cocktail-events-with-strangers, where I would not have excelled. You won’t want to badmouth your summer firm (although if it is well-known and publicly floundering, I bet a lot of its competitors will bad-mouth it for you). But if you are asked, I think it is totally fine to mention that it hasn’t yet made offers/has made no or few offers/has suggested that summers keep looking (as my summer firm did). In a cover letter, I wouldn’t spend more than a sentence explaining this, and I might not even explain it, especially if my summer firm is known to be doing badly — just mention that I summered at X but am interested in new firm Y because of its excellent Z practice.
I think your best bet is to perform as well as you can this summer and try to make friends with some partners who can give you guidance/act as references, and then pretend you have no job prospects there once it is over, and start looking everywhere you can for new jobs. You should also get to know your career services people — some may be very helpful, practically or emotionally.
The next year will probably be awful and frustrating and depressing (it was for me, and for a lot of my 3L friends), but you will come out okay.
Gail the Goldfish
My BF is also class of 2010 still deferred from funny-name firm. The handful that were still deferred are supposed to start May 1st. We’ve got a betting pool going for whether or not the firm collapses first:-/ I wonder if we know each other.
But yea, that situation pretty much sucks.
Gail the Goldfish
Also, as I suspect original poster is at said firm (unless there’s another major firm risking dissolution right now), I feel like most places you apply are going to know about the situation and not judge.
I didn’t get an offer from my 2L firm, and I turned out fine (though not in big law). I will say if you don’t find something before graduation, make sure you get everything you need together for bar admissions (if your state does C&F after the bar) so you can get admitted as quickly as possible–I didn’t get a whole lot of interviews until after I was admitted, which for me took a very long time.
Nickey
Agree with Gail (don’t think I know you/r BF, though; my summer firm wasn’t named after a decimal system or a meat). As 3L spring approaches, get ready for bar admission, and consider taking multiple bar exams to expand your job search/qualifications. (I wanted to be in NY but took the NJ bar as well; it didn’t cost much more in $, and you really don’t need to study for the NJ bar at all. Also, I was admitted to NJ soon after bar results came out, so I could say I was an attorney by the end of November after my graduation, whereas it took me a few extra months to get admitted in NY — and that’s because I had my application ready to go as soon as results came out; if I had waited, I might not have been admitted in NY until the summer.)
Also, I would advise you to apply to every fellowship you hear about, as well as any clerkships (state and federal) that you could see yourself doing.
And if your summer job falls through, find something else to do with your summer, even if it is doing research for a professor or volunteering at a nonprofit. (The former will probably sound better and might even pay — talk to career services and remind them how much you are paying in tuition.)
Anon 3L
I didn’t get an offer from my 2L summer job (small/medium firm, none of the other SAs did either) and I found one during my 3L year.
My school offers a lot of 3L OCI, but I missed that boat because I didn’t hear back from my small firm until it was too late. I spent the fall using every connection I could think of and got several interviews. My schools career services was helpful as they listed places to apply that I hadn’t thought of. As for my actual job, I got it thanks to a professor a) telling me about it and b) letting me name drop the professor.
Good luck!
KYC
i am a 2010 grad and got no offered by my firm. i did not get any job offers during 3L year (although i was doing a cross-country job search and CA is notoriously known for not wanting to give offers until after bar results are out). once i took the bar, i moved out to CA and worked my network. within months, i had a contract attorney gig (not doc review) that helped pay bills and gave me substantive experience. within a couple of months of that i landed my current job at a mid-sized firm.
things will be difficult. sometimes you will be frustrated, discouraged, angry or upset. it is okay to be all those things and to feel that way. i, on more than one occasion, called home to my parents to cry about my job search.
my mentor once said to me that the first job is the hardest one to get. that is so true. but once you get that first job, everything will go from there.
anon for this one
Sigh. Just ended things with the guy I’ve been pseudo-seeing this weekend. Pseudo because it was really more of an FWB thing, not at all serious and I never saw it going further, so I’m not that sad about it – except that I’m starting to wonder if I will ever find anyone I’m excited about that is similarly excited about me.
Anon
SAME.
Monday
I firmly believe that the right thing cannot come in to your life until the wrong thing gets kicked out to make room for it. So consider yourselves that much closer to the person you’re excited about who is similarly excited about you.
Merabella
This! You may never find the right guy if you waste your time with the good for now guy. It is totally legit to be scared because your alone. But my favorite quote from an awesome movie Some Kind of Wonderful applies so well here, “I’d rather be alone for the right reasons than be with someone for the wrong one.” Make time for some self care, get a mani/pedi or massage or facial, and then get back out there and start looking for Mr. Right.
PharmaGirl
I love that quote!
(Break his heart and I’ll break your face.)
Susan
This. OP, you’ve just taken a step in this direction (making room for the right one.
A friend of mine just went through the same thing. Her FWB was a 5’9 155lb dude. She decided that any woman who loses 155lbs over the space of a weekend should celebrate, instead of cry, since he was taking up mental and physical space that she’d rather devote to someone who was crazy about her and vice versa.
NOLA
When I got divorced, one of my friends said I had lost 200 lbs of ugly fat. Mean but partly true?
Eloise Spaghetti
I know. I just realized that I always go with someone who likes me because it is the worst when someone I like doesn’t like me so I would rather just be with people I do not like instead of facing rejection. How did that take 30 years? Good for you though. Who knows who you are missing out on meeting when you are spending time with the FWB.
Jo March
Good for you. I stayed with the wrong one for 15 years…and now I could.not.be.happier.
DC Jenny
I asked my boss for a promotion to the next GS level in my pay grade (federal worker here). We just sat down to talk about it, and he “suggested” that my case for getting the promotion would be much stronger if I commit to staying for two years. I’m going on detail for 6 months starting in July, and I’ve already committed to staying for a year after I get back from that. Now he wants me to tack on an extra year, which would put me at January 2015.
I am desperately trying to get out of this agency, and that’s one reason I wanted to do the detail in the first place. But I could really use the extra money from the promotion, and there’s no guarantee I would even be able to find another job before 2015.
Ugh, how do I make this decision?
Pest
There should be a formal job description for the GS level position you want. I would ask for that and discuss with him how you meet the criteria for it. I would ask him why he suggests that two year commitment would improve my chances for getting approved for the promotion, since that is not listed as a criteria in the job description.
As I’m sure you know, the commitment terms for federal government jobs can’t be enforced. They are just there to dissuade people from leaving, and many people leave before they are up anyway. If my boss made an unofficial two year commitment a requirement before he recommended me for a promotion I was qualified for and entitled to, I would have no qualms with breaking it to take a job I wanted more.
DC Jenny
Wouldn’t you be worried about burning a bridge with regard to references? This is my first job out of law school, so they would be my main reference.
Pest
I really wouldn’t. In the scenario I described, you would have a job lined up before you left. Also, you will have references from your detail. Maybe your agency is different from mine, but we’ve had plenty of people leave before their commitments are up without any problems. Several left before their commitments expired and were hired back after they decided to come back. I find it strange that your boss would ask for this commitment from you as a condition of promotion, yet they would approve for you to go on detail. Is there a significant amount of turnover in your agency?
DC Jenny
I find it strange too. There is virtually no turnover in my particular, small office. I guess they are very invested in keeping it that way?
r
Agree. In my agency people leave before their commitments are up all the time. I’ve never heard of someone getting a promotion as long as they agree to certain time commitments. You don’t have a contract. I would agree to him terms and then leave if I got a new job.
Kiki DC
Most people who detail in my agency tend not to come back and end up staying with the detail that turns into a job. I don’t know about your agency, but maybe your boss is sensing the same thing will happen to you and that’s why he’s going for the committment. I am trying to get out too (maybe we work for the same agency!) so I understand not wanting to commit to 2015. That seems like a very long time! I, like you, wouldn’t want to burn that bridge by committing to 2 years and then leaving early. Is there any chance you can still put in for a promotion without agreeing to the 2-year committment?
Jem
What about being sorta honest? Say you really like working there, have no plans to leave, would love the promotion but take commitments seriously and don’t feel comfortable making such a long commitment at this juncture.
Ruby
that’s honest to a fault. it’s business, they don’t need to know your every feeling. just do what he suggests and get the promotion.
Ruby
ps if not you are giving them a reason to deny you. a junior guy just got promoted before his time by threatening to leave if they didn’t. it worked.
mamabear
Totally random, but every time I see GS, I read “Girl Scouts” (because I don’t work for the gov’t and my daughter is a scout.)
I was wondering what Girl Scout level you were going for. :)
DC Jenny
Whatever the highest level is where you get to eat all the cookies, of course. :)
mamabear
Duh!
Susan
LOL! I see GS and I think….”Vampire Squid”
DC Jenny
You all seem to be in agreement with my friends and my BF, who have told me to just say I will stay the 2 years but take another job if it comes up anyway. I can see that this wouldn’t torpedo my career from a practical standpoint, but it feels borderline unethical to make a commitment I have no intention of keeping. I know my boss would take it very personally. Am I being hypersensitive to feel prospectively guilty about this?
I am writing a memo making my case for the promotion. I am leaning towards saying something about having made a agreed to stay at least until 2014 and affirming my long-term commitment to my Agency, but not stating that I will stay 2 more years. Then I will make my (hopefully) airtight argument as to why I deserve the promotion based on my substantive work.
Moonstone
I just want to say that the posts from government workers always make me feel like we U.S. taxpayers are lucky to have people with very high standards working for us, and I, for one, appreciate your public service. So the fact that you don’t want to break your word to your boss is admirable.
But, the boss is being a little manipulative here. He definitely is trying to emphasize that you have to come back after your detail. It makes his job easier if you don’t leave. But you have to look out for you. The agency will get along just fine if you find a better position. I think he is playing a game and I like Jem’s way of saying you have no plans to leave.
If he backs you into a corner and you have to commit, you might want to think of what one of my old professors counseled when hearing of a mentee in a similar situation: “Well, dear, they can certainly ask for that commitment and you can certainly give it, but they outlawed indentured servitude in this country a long time ago.”
DC Jenny
Thank you so much for this. Feds have been getting a lot of flak for the last couple of years, so it’s very nice to get some appreciation rather than being treated as an overpaid (ha!) leech on the economy!
Also, I have been jokingly referring to my one-year commitment as indentured servitude, but the 2 years is really just taking it too far.
Pest
I would do what I said above, get the job description and write about your accomplishments at your current position and how based on those you meet the criteria for the promotion. I would make no mention in the memo of agreeing to stay for any period of time. Looking back at your original question, it doesn’t sound like the time commitment is a dealbreaker, just something your boss would like you to sign on to. You can inquire to him why this would help your chances of being approved for the promotion if it is not in the listed criteria. You can tell him that you find your work for the agency to be very rewarding and interesting, and that you have no plans to leave within the next couple of years, without making any promises that you won’t.
DC Jenny
Thank you very much for all your input. I think you are right, and I asked for a copy of the standards for the GS-14 level. I will base my memo off of that and go from there.
Not a lawyer
Somewhat random question for the lawyers…
Last week I read an article about the giant law firm Dewey & LeBoeuf, which has had something like 20 percent of its partners leave in the past 6 weeks. The article’s focus was on whether that many lawyers leaving invalidated the bond issue through which the firm had raised somewhere north of $120 million in the past couple of years.
I would think a law firm’s assets are primarily in its workforce. Does a law firm need that much operating capital for its physical assets? Seems like a lot. Or are the amounts it spends preparing for trials that enormous that it needs that much operating cash over and above its receivables?
It just seems like a huge amount of money for a law firm. But someone please enlighten me!
CA Atty
A law firm needs that much operating capital. I’ve never worked for a large firm, but I worked for a solo and I was always amazed, stunned, and a little terrified at how much money my boss had out in fees and costs that would (hopefully) be reimbursed at the end of the case.
It’s heavily case dependent though, depending on the type of case the clients may have to pay upfront, but even then you may have a delay between when the bills are sent to the client and when the client finally sends back a check. Usually it’s a monthly billing cycle, so you could have a month’s worth of invoices out, for thousands and thousands of dollars, in each case, prior to reimbursement.
CA Atty
And that doesn’t even start with overhead, rent/mortgage, salaries, supplies, etc…
GW
For the most part, law firms only take on debt (or at least long-term debt) for expansion costs. Either to invest in physical assets — opening a new office or renovating office space — or payments to partners hired laterally from other offices. In Dewey’s case, it’s the latter. They expanded hugely in the last year or two, and brought in a large number of partners with guaranteed compensation. The way law firms usually work is that partners divide the profits (usually in some pre-decided formula) between them. But sometimes to get a big name partner to join a lesser known firm, you have to guarantee their comp for the first few years. Risky on the firm’s part, because lateral partners almost never bring as much work with them as they say they will, and even if they do, there’s usually a lag in getting the work and payment in the door (because some of it will still be owed to the old firm). At Dewey, they had so much guaranteed comp they owed, that existing partners had to “defer” their compensation, i.e., agree not to be paid. This makes no one happy, which makes people start leaving. At some point, it can start to be a death spiral.
Divaliscious11
I usually like your picks, but I think this one looks messy… I like RR though and thinks she has some great stuff.
MissJackson
I agree. Usually love Kat’s picks. But this looks super messy. I think it looks too big on the model, too, which is making it worse.
Kelly in Chicago
Agreed. I think this particular Rachel Roy jacket looks sloppy. Even on the model, my first thought was that she didn’t button it properly and that it was misaligned.
Susan
Yes, this jacket looks like a mess to me. I have never found anything by Rachel Roy to be all that great. It’s just overpriced mass-produced clothing, with lots of hype. Ugh.
mamabear
Oh, I’ll be the lone dissenter and say I like this jacket. I like anything resembling a peplum, particularly if it’s more softly draped. I have figured out I am an “8” shape rather than regular hourglass – see insideoutstyleblog dot com for definitions, but basically 8’s carry their hip curve higher. And peplums are perfect for 8’s.
I would wear it with black on bottom, though. While I like the assymetry, I think playing it down a little with a tone on tone look would work better.
Anon
Can’t recall who was worried about spending too much on the Tumi briefcase a couple of weeks ago, but if you haven’t used it yet, the same bag is on sale on One Kings Lane today.
Selia
I am not wild about this jacket – I just don’t think I would get enough use out of it for the price, and it would likely go off trend fairly quickly! To me, it looks almost unfinished or like someone didn’t know how to sew and made one side too long!
As always, I appreciate the wide variety on this site and the opportunity to opine!
bubbles
TJ — Oryany handbags — anyone have one? Opinions on quality? Thank you!
Too indecisive...
Ladies, please help me make a decision. I wanted to get a nice but casual sandal to wear with jersey skirts and jeans this summer – I currently have a metallic silver pair that sometimes looks a little dressier than I’d like with jeans.
I’m torn between two pairs from Talbots – brightly colored patent (possibly kelly green or dark blue – the Calli Patent Leather Capri Sandal) or nude-for-me patent (the Romy Faux-Patent T-Strap in Urban Khaki). They’re basically the same shoe with a slight height difference, but I can’t decide between goes-with-everything nude or a fun, bold color since I already have a neutral metallic. I was also thinking that there’s a better chance of the colors getting marked down later in the season…
Help!
Too indecisive...
Whoops – links in the post below (awaiting moderation) because I didn’t hit reply.
Jennifer
I think the style looks cuter in brights than in nude.
Too indecisive...
And the links:
Colors – http://www.talbots.com/online/browse/product_details.jsp?rootCategory=cat70016&id=prdi28802
Nude – http://www.talbots.com/online/browse/product_details.jsp?rootCategory=cat70016&id=prdi28315
Thanks Barrister in the Bayou...
… and the anon who gave me recommendations for Revlon lip butter. I got fig jam (they were out of pink truffle) and love the shade. I like to wear reddish browns with golden undertones and this is perfect. I will probably need to use lip balm because my lips are dry but this is such a fun, natural shade. Thanks!
Barrister in the Bayou
Awesome! I’m glad the shade worked for you. Let me know if you end up getting pink truffle and how it works for you. I’m thinking of venturing out and scoring some more, but I have a lot of lip products and would only get new ones if I was pretty sure the shade was going to work.
Migraine Sufferer
Any leads for where a woman with small boobs can get a decent bra? Somewhere that they can actually do a decent sizing? At Victoria’s Secret they always tell me I’m a 34B, but I *swim* in this size. I’m probably more accurately a 36A (which they don’t really carry in many styles) or maybe even somekind of AA. Thanks for any help.
Also small on top
I like Soma. One note – they tend to do vanity sizing, so you might wear a B cup there.
Coalea
Where are you located? Are you looking for a bricks and mortar location, or are online recommendations okay?
Migraine Sufferer
I’m in Seattle. Online is great after I get sized, but I also need to find a good brick and mortar location to make sure I’m wearing what I should be.
Small too
I’m a 38A, which is REALLY hard to find. I just went on a major mission to get new bras, and here’s what I learned. Do not waste your time going to a department store or Target. You’ll just end up frustrated. Everything’s always a jumble and you can’t find your size (note to department stores: you should arrange your bras by size, not by brand!). Online shopping is your friend because you can put in your size and then just see the ones they carry in your size. I ordered a ton of bras from Bare Necessities and Her Room (both carry all the major name brands, plus some I’d never heard of), tried them on, and then shipped back the ones I didn’t like. I now have a bra that I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, and am going to order more of that one. It’s by Calida, which is expensive, but really, you can’t put a price on a good bra that is actually comfortable to wear.
Sonya
Where are you? There is an awesome small-cup store, Lula Lu, in the Bay area. Might even be worth a trip if you are replacing a significant portion of your lingerie wardrobe.
http://www.lulalu.com/personal-fitting.asp
SF Bay Associate
I’m a 34A, maybe 32B. +1 x 1000 on Lula Lu. The owner, Ellen, is a wonderful person, and she carries a fabulous variety of small-cup sizes. Or Nordstrom. Or, an upscale lingerie boutique near you that carries fine European lingerie, which seem to understand that women come in a variety of sizes that don’t all end in C/D/DD/+. Victoria’s Secret is a evil, terrible place for all but those in mainstream sizes.
F in LA
The petite blogsphere swears by The Little Bra Company – http://www.thelittlebracompany.com/where-to-buy/
AnonInfinity
I am a 36AA. There are some good recs in this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/02/fashion/02Small.html?pagewanted=all
I now order online from Lula Lu and am very happy with them!
Coalea
I have a totally different figure type, but if you are looking for a wide selection, I agree with Small Too about Bare Necessities and Her Room. Also, Bra Smyth.
cb
Gap Body, I’m the same size and they are the only one I’ve found that fits well.
Pest
PSA- THE SKIRT IS ON SALE IN ALL COLORS FOR $39.90!!!!
Anon
link?
NOLA
Halogen seamed pencil skirt: http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/halogen-seamed-pencil-skirt/3322769?origin=category&resultback=2508
Loved by many here. Doesn’t work for many others.
Lobbyist
Can we wear this skirt in summer too? I have it so far in grey and yellow and wore it in winter (Northern California). Summer gets quite hot. Trying to decide if I should get other colors.
TCFKAG
Just google Nordstrom’s Halogen Seamed Pencil Skirt.
TCFKAG
Oh, and if you’re considering your first one, I’d suggest the grey. I have it and its the best neutral in my wardrobe currently (and its on-sale for 24.97 I think).
Oh.so.tired
I don’t see the grey one on the website? Would appreciate a link!
COS
Thanks. I just ordered my 1st. The constant raving over the skirt at this site has made me curious, and the sale put me over the edge. Excited for my mail this week.
DC Jenny
I have to say boo on Nordstrom for not having all the fun colors in the petite version.
Anony
How short are you? I just order the full length version and wear it a little higher on the waist (and a little longer) than most other pencil skirts. Its of a stretchy enough fabric that I can do this with comfort and I think it gives a nice line. (I’m 5′ 3″ btw.)
CA Atty
That’s what I did with the Target version: http://www.target.com/p/Mossimo-Womens-Ponte-Knit-Skirt-Assorted-Colors/-/A-13899837
I got the teal and love it but it goes a bit too far below the knees. I actually LOVE the fit when I pull it up and it makes me feel thin! :-)
(I’m 5’4″)
DC Jenny
How high does the slit go? Would it be OK to wear sans tights?
Blonde Lawyer
If you are asking about the Target one, yes, I wear it bare legged.
Kate
Need some advice from the hive..
Just got this silk blouse from Bloomingdale’s
http://www1.bloomingdales.com/shop/product/juicy-couture-silk-striped-top?ID=599577&CategoryID=8952&LinkType=#fn=spp%3D18%26ppp%3D96%26sp%3D2%26rid%3D52
It looks cute on the model in the photo but I can’t decide if I want to keep it or send it back. When would I actually wear this? I don’t think I could wear it to work…or should I just send it back because I am not excited about it?
Thoughts?
qwerty
this is super cute. i would wear it. i think it would look great with navy.
qwerty
i would totally wear this to work, short-sleeved silk blouses are all i wear in the summertime.
JessC
I would totally wear this to work – with navy, gray, or khaki.
But, if you’re not excited about it that’s as good as any reason to return it.
DC Jenny
I think it’s gorgeous. I could see it tucked into a pencil skirt or trousers.
BigLaw Optimist
Ditto. :)
Sconnie
I have a bunch of silky blouses almost this exact cut and I love them. They look great tucked into high waisted pencil skirts and, sometimes, left untucked but belted at the waist to create a peplum effect (it depends on how long the shirt is and how you are shaped).
Rural Juror
Considering ordering my first pair of Stuart Weitzman pumps… TTS,half size up or half size down? I’ve googled and can’t find a consensus. FWIW I wear a 6 or 6.5 usually, depending on the make, feet more wide than narrow, but still a regular width wearer. TIA!
COS
have them on now. TTS.
Always a NYer
I bought the Poco pump in an 11 when I usually wear a 10.5. The 11 fits perfectly.
SF Bay Associate
I find SW can run a little snug because it so often offers wide options. Can you order both sizes and return one?
Pest
SW runs rather narrow, but the shoe length is generally true to size.
MissJackson
+1
Marie Curie
I only have one pair, but they fit TTS. (I have wide feet and the shoes are in wide, too.)
a passion for fashion
true to size
MEEBO a little annoying
Cat- On corporette, and only on corporette, I get an annoying MEEBO bar at the bottom of my screen. otherwise love the website! can i disable it or is this something that corporette is using?